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mystiq pwnzorg
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Posted - 2008.10.10 09:54:00 -
[1]
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Fullmetal Jackass
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Posted - 2008.10.10 09:59:00 -
[2]
 Originally by: mystiq pwnzorg
'Dya come up with that all on your own?  |
mystiq pwnzorg
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Posted - 2008.10.10 11:02:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Fullmetal Jackass
Originally by: mystiq pwnzorg
'Dya come up with that all on your own?
clicked enter when i was in 'subject' window ;p
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Che Biko
Polytechnique Gallenteenne
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Posted - 2008.10.10 14:05:00 -
[4]
I love the title, made me laugh.
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Washell Olivaw
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Posted - 2008.10.10 14:13:00 -
[5]
Originally by: mystiq pwnzorg
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I will start with simple statement- no speed nerf is needed.
Let's say that hostile is in vagabon with perma MWD. he goes 5500km/s.
with using one webifying drone, i can decrese his speed to 3850km/s.
with two, it will be 2695km/s.
stats still a lot.
Great theory. One question though. How is a drone that is flying at 1500 m/s going to web a ship flying 4000 m/s faster?
P.s. The light version would be flying at 5000 m/s, so wouldn't be able to catch him either. At least, not without sacrifying a mid for a drone navigation computer.
Originally by: Signature
Everybody has a photographic memory, some people just don't have film.
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Asno Malo
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Posted - 2008.10.10 14:26:00 -
[6]
Greetings,
Wow, where to beging???
Originally by: mystiq pwnzorg
my advice is to boost webifying drones [heavy] from -30% speed penalty to -55%speed penalty each. also medium and light webyfing drones should be added.
First, no web drone will be able to keep up with the current nano ships. Please note I too think the last published nano-nerf goes way too far, but this proposal would not work at all.
Adding light and medium webber drones would cover part of the problem, but would have very little overall affect. The problem is that nano ships go far too fast for anything larger than Warrior II drones (The fastest player controlled drones in the game), so you would have to make these drones extremely fast to be useful. Next, the range on drone webs, just like player webs is far to short. The web drones would have to be able to get to within 10KM and remain within that range to be effective.
Next, at the rates these nano ships are moving, means they cover a lot of distance in very short times, as such the drones would have to operate beyond the 40KM range of normal drones.
Quote:
also, players, could start using neutralizers, which would cause nanoships to lose theyr mwd use capability. thats a little tactis advise.
Tell you what, get out of your Amarr NOS / Neut ship or a nano ship and attempt to neut a nano. The range on NOS / Neut is fairly short. Most nano pilots will not sit within the 10KM range long enough for you to NOS them. And unless you are in either an Amarr NOS / Neut ship or a nano ship, you will not be able to get into range and stay there long enough to be effective.
Quote:
caldaris missle/rocket ships will not be able to deal any damage at all. one ship with 8 defender missles will be able to take down theyr whole dps, even when theyr not attack him.
Actually, the last time I checked, current defender missiles are less than 12% effective at maximum skill versus a single launcher. Their efficiency is so low that many fleets are using smart bombs instead of defender missiles.
Now, you say a single ship with 8 defenders, which should give near 100% coverage, as a problem. I am not sure if you have tried this yet, but I had with 7 defender launchers, using max launch skills, L4 in defender and Arby rocket launchers. In this test, I had a single drake shooting me using broadsides. I took out roughly 3% of his missiles. I then had him delay his launches so he was launching 1 missile per second, which improved my kill rate to 5%. Now imagine there were two drakes.
Frankly, the rest of your comments make little or no sense. BTW. The nano nerf has not gone live yet and is instead still in testing.
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mystiq pwnzorg
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Posted - 2008.10.10 14:41:00 -
[7]
Edited by: mystiq pwnzorg on 10/10/2008 14:53:28
okey...
t2 disruptor have a range of 24km [and i doubt that 130kk republic fleet disruptor is in use in nano ships ;p], and thats the range he have to be in. correct me if i'm wrong but all those BS's that mostly cry about nanos have heavy neuts with range of 24km. oh my!!.
drones- he will have to keep in 30km range max to disrupt you. i haven't done calculations, but moving in 30km orbit is same as like 66% of that speed in 20km+ 10km range will let drones to lost it a bit.
also fitting i used coinatin of only 2 interia modifiers, giving him allign of 9.5sec. not that much, but can he orbit 30km with "that" speed? XD
even if he could orbit in 30km with maximum speed, u'r still not webbed, and u can't start moving in random direction with 1km speed causing him to not orbit u in a circle, but elipse you. giving ur drones chance to catche him.
and yea, web drones could be faster or have better optimal.
defenders: kestrel got 4 lunchers. he shoots 4defenders each 2.2sec with 'v' skills and t2 modules without modules for rate fo fire. those defenders have 93km range.
sit on 80km then [fleet support] and try to be shoot. torpedos dies after 4 defenders, right? so each two seconds u will kill one of his torpedos [t2 ofc...]. raven got 6 lunchers, that give him 6torpedos each 7.5sec with skills 'V'. so, before his next round u will take down half of his torpedos. now... take two kestrels and tell me how many of his missles will be left ;p
also 80km distance is ur friend. his torpedos goes like 3.5km/s and ur's defenders does like 9.5km/s.
have a nice day.
"There is one thing in humand live, nationalities and countries is priceless- this thing is honor!"-Jozef Beck
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Washell Olivaw
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Posted - 2008.10.10 14:50:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Washell Olivaw on 10/10/2008 14:50:38
Originally by: mystiq pwnzorg
sit on 80km then [fleet support] and try to be shoot. torpedos dies after 4 defenders, right?
What's the max range of torps again? They got buffed on ROF and nerfed bigtime on range. 40km for T1's, max skilled and about 60km for T2's right?
At 80km's he won't be launching torps, so you won't be needing defenders. At 40km defenders won't be able to kill 6 torps in ~12 seconds.
Originally by: Signature
Everybody has a photographic memory, some people just don't have film.
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mystiq pwnzorg
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Posted - 2008.10.10 15:00:00 -
[9]
Edited by: mystiq pwnzorg on 10/10/2008 15:03:24
sry, my bad... missiles then ;p
with missles my point prove it's self even more.
cruise missiles have 50 hp, right?
whatever missile/torpedo he would use his dps would be gone by use only of two kestrels. [in proper range- less hp missle got, less distance is needed].
for cruise u could be even in web range ;p
na na na, those 6 torps will need like 12secs, that let two kestrels to produce 24defenders [each every 2 secs], so if torp dies after 4, then they will kill it.
hope ur getting my point- no matter what missile typ he will use, it will be shoot. even rockets won't be able to pass- 1 rocket= 1 defender. |
Asno Malo
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Posted - 2008.10.10 18:39:00 -
[10]
Originally by: mystiq pwnzorg
na na na, those 6 torps will need like 12secs to fly 40km. kestrel got 4 lunchers shooting every 2 seconds. that gives us 2 defenders each second. is that right?
in 12 seconds each kestrel will be able to produce 24defenders- enougth to kill them. Quote:
While your numbers look like they would prove your point, in actual fact, they prove the opposite. You say 24 defenders, however, what you don't talk about is the defender missile mechanisms in game. Only 1 in 8, see my previous post about defender efficiency, of those defenders will kill a torpedo, the rest will do nothing, so you will take out, at most, 3 torps. Now remember, you are talking about a single ship attacking a fleet of 3 here (target plus 2 Kestrals). To get the kind of coverage you are talking about, that one ship would need to be attacking a fleet of 5 or more.
Quote:
As u can see 8 lunchers with defenders is enougth to kill ravens dps. 6 lunchers with defenders should be enougth ;p
Nope. My own testing was a Raven attacking a Drake. The Drake was able to kill no more than 12% of the incoming missiles. Please note this test was conducted over a period of 1 hour. |
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mystiq pwnzorg
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Posted - 2008.10.10 20:04:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Asno Malo
Originally by: mystiq pwnzorg
na na na, those 6 torps will need like 12secs to fly 40km. kestrel got 4 lunchers shooting every 2 seconds. that gives us 2 defenders each second. is that right?
in 12 seconds each kestrel will be able to produce 24defenders- enougth to kill them. Quote:
While your numbers look like they would prove your point, in actual fact, they prove the opposite. You say 24 defenders, however, what you don't talk about is the defender missile mechanisms in game. Only 1 in 8, see my previous post about defender efficiency, of those defenders will kill a torpedo, the rest will do nothing, so you will take out, at most, 3 torps. Now remember, you are talking about a single ship attacking a fleet of 3 here (target plus 2 Kestrals). To get the kind of coverage you are talking about, that one ship would need to be attacking a fleet of 5 or more.
Quote:
As u can see 8 lunchers with defenders is enougth to kill ravens dps. 6 lunchers with defenders should be enougth ;p
Nope. My own testing was a Raven attacking a Drake. The Drake was able to kill no more than 12% of the incoming missiles. Please note this test was conducted over a period of 1 hour.
i asked my friend to test it, and his defenders were taking off all incoming cruisers. maybe if u need more hit per missile, it's diffrent. dunno. cruiser missiles were going down from what he said.
let GM's / CCP's to tell how it really works at this stage.
also read: http://www.eve-online.com/guide/en/g61_3.asp
also just head a thougth about this missiles... they could make 'tracking disruptor like' that will cause missiles ot have bigger explosion radius ;] |
Del Narveux
Dukes of Hazard
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Posted - 2008.10.10 21:30:00 -
[12]
What is needed is something generic to counter nanos, in the same way that modules like ECCM and SB can nullify ECM and damps, respectively. Sure theres minmatar eaf/recon but thats not really a viable solution since its just one race's superspecialized t2 stuff, and as has been said webber drones are way too slow.
Based on numbers I have seen, it will still be possible to nano some ships after the proposed nerf (albeit at greater cost, like thats ever stopped anyone) so I don't see it doing any more than the original nano nerf did.
_________________
[IMAGE REMOVED]
-- aka Cpt Bogus --
Is that my torped sig cloaking your base?
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mystiq pwnzorg
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Posted - 2008.10.10 22:01:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Del Narveux
What is needed is something generic to counter nanos, in the same way that modules like ECCM and SB can nullify ECM and damps, respectively. Sure theres minmatar eaf/recon but thats not really a viable solution since its just one race's superspecialized t2 stuff, and as has been said webber drones are way too slow.
Based on numbers I have seen, it will still be possible to nano some ships after the proposed nerf (albeit at greater cost, like thats ever stopped anyone) so I don't see it doing any more than the original nano nerf did.
they could add those drones as a start, and fix cap batteries.
then we could see ;p.
i think they should neft interia stabilizers and overinjectors, cuz if they'r gona add those scaramblers, nefr MWD and nerf speed, lot's of ships will be useless in short ranges pvp. |
Fullmetal Jackass
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Posted - 2008.10.11 05:15:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Del Narveux
What is needed is something generic to counter nanos, in the same way that modules like ECCM and SB can nullify ECM and damps, respectively. Sure theres minmatar eaf/recon but thats not really a viable solution since its just one race's superspecialized t2 stuff, and as has been said webber drones are way too slow.
Based on numbers I have seen, it will still be possible to nano some ships after the proposed nerf (albeit at greater cost, like thats ever stopped anyone) so I don't see it doing any more than the original nano nerf did.
"Nano" is just the name given to the problem: ******ed speeds and acceleration. It's mostly too many bonuses multiplying on top of each other. It's broken game mechanics. Ya can't just throw a module at it.
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mystiq pwnzorg
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Posted - 2008.10.11 16:31:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Del Narveux
What is needed is something generic to counter nanos, in the same way that modules like ECCM and SB can nullify ECM and damps, respectively. Sure theres minmatar eaf/recon but thats not really a viable solution since its just one race's superspecialized t2 stuff, and as has been said webber drones are way too slow.
Based on numbers I have seen, it will still be possible to nano some ships after the proposed nerf (albeit at greater cost, like thats ever stopped anyone) so I don't see it doing any more than the original nano nerf did.
u got gotams, hakims, mizuros, tobis [40km] webifiers ;p
if they will make them to lose cap faster, then they won't nano for too long ^^.
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Allaria Kriss
Minmatar
Elipse Inc.
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Posted - 2008.10.11 21:46:00 -
[16]
Originally by: mystiq pwnzorg
Originally by: Del Narveux
What is needed is something generic to counter nanos, in the same way that modules like ECCM and SB can nullify ECM and damps, respectively. Sure theres minmatar eaf/recon but thats not really a viable solution since its just one race's superspecialized t2 stuff, and as has been said webber drones are way too slow.
Based on numbers I have seen, it will still be possible to nano some ships after the proposed nerf (albeit at greater cost, like thats ever stopped anyone) so I don't see it doing any more than the original nano nerf did.
u got gotams, hakims, mizuros, tobis [40km] webifiers ;p
if they will make them to lose cap faster, then they won't nano for too long ^^.
The cheapest of those webs costs a billion ISK last I looked and all of them are meant primarily for battleships. Try again. ^_^
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mystiq pwnzorg
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Posted - 2008.10.11 22:59:00 -
[17]
yea, but there still r items...
i would be about creating counter nano module- module that increase web's optimal/strength with cost of strength/optimal.
that would be nice, would it?
but when i think about it now... i wouldn't be able to get to enemy, cuz he would web in lets say 15km distance so i woldn't get into my optimal ^^. [i could get into that optimal, but how much cap i would waste for mwd and how long would it take me >_<].
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Odessima
Caldari
The Black Rabbits
The Gurlstas Associates
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Posted - 2008.10.12 11:42:00 -
[18]
Pretty much all of what you said has been mentioned elsewhere and usually what they are doing about it, or why they cant in the "last pod cast" what some people dont seem to get is that even with special missile's on test they had problems hitting nanoed ships because these ships are outside the paramaters the game engine was designed for. They already stated they are dropping the web scam breaking MWD part, and the scripting of them was dropped as well.
In my mind an interceptor in any shape or form should be able to intercept ( catch, travel as fast as ) anything that is not an interceptor, nanoed or non nanoed at medium skills. Heavy missiles should be able to hit cruiser or larger sized ships nanoed or not nanoed, light missiles should be able to hit frigate sized ships.
Sure fix defenders or make a mod that throws chaff, but has to be able to be equiped in all racial ships without having to sacrifice mid, or low slot to do it either.
My comments are my own and arent neccesarily anything to do with my corp.
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