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Hurricane v. Drake - Best ship for L3's?

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Author	Topic
Slippery Surgeon	Posted - 2008.10.10 15:46:00 - [1] Im prety new to eve and im ready for lvl 3 missisons. but i cant decide which ship to go with. the drake or the hurricane. which ship is the toughest and does the most dmg? i understand the drake is a popular choice, i think; but what about the hurricane? is it high quality L3 capable?
Sidus Isaacs	Posted - 2008.10.10 15:49:00 - [2] Drake if you got missiles. Cane if you got projectiles. But for tanking: Drake.
Tac Ginaz The Righteous Few	Posted - 2008.10.10 16:04:00 - [3] Drake can fit an insane passive tank. I fly both. and I've yet to find a fit that work on a hurricane for L3's. Seems to me the hurricane was built to provide massive dps support for a bigger ship that tanks. :(
Slippery Surgeon	Posted - 2008.10.10 16:12:00 - [4] i c. so the cane has more dps but cant tank as well?
Cpt Branko Surge.	Posted - 2008.10.10 16:13:00 - [5] DPS at high ranges is comparable. Hurricane does L3s fine at high skills with a arty shield buffer fit, T2 drones, all that jazz. Drake can do it all at low skills and can tank missions easy. Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail mods@ccpgames.com ~Saint
Slippery Surgeon	Posted - 2008.10.10 16:18:00 - [6] ok excellent. thank you for the info.
Tac Ginaz The Righteous Few	Posted - 2008.10.10 16:29:00 - [7] Yes. The hurricane seems to be excellent if you can fit the MWD on it. It does a combo of speed tanking and shield/armor tanking (your choice on which armor or shield). But for missions, you cannot use MWD and the AB is useless for speed tanking as most missions has your ship taking a lot of missile fire. The only time I got a working fit for L3s involved serious investment in T2 modules and rigging the ship. In contrast, the drake only needs one type of T2 module and the rest t1 cheap modules/weapons to run the missions in absolute safety.
Furb Killer Gallente Tribal Liberation Force	Posted - 2008.10.10 16:33:00 - [8] Cane is a decent ship for lvl 3s, and drake a good one. However projectile turret battleships are not good mission runners. So imo it is better to go for a drake, so you can go to raven after that.
Abrazzar	Posted - 2008.10.10 17:08:00 - [9] If you don't want to think too much in your missions, use a Drake. If you want to get some giggles out of one-shooting rats, use a Hurricane with a set of 720mm Artillery.
Vindarten	Posted - 2008.10.10 17:12:00 - [10] Drake to clear the mission Hurricane to salvage it

Slippery Surgeon	Posted - 2008.10.10 18:32:00 - [11] Originally by: Vindarten Drake to clear the mission Hurricane to salvage it lol. nice
Amezyarak	Posted - 2008.10.10 18:59:00 - [12] Originally by: Vindarten Drake to clear the mission Hurricane to salvage it lol, true!
Slippery Surgeon	Posted - 2008.10.10 20:32:00 - [13] how about the cyclone or the ferox; are they lvl 3 worthy?
Johann Callasan	Posted - 2008.10.10 21:21:00 - [14] Originally by: Slippery Surgeon how about the cyclone or the ferox; are they lvl 3 worthy? ANY BC can do a level 3 mission; the difference is in how much attention you have to pay in order to complete it. Drakes are so highly recommended for the following reasons: 1) Missiles can be loaded to adapt to ANY rat; there's a missile for each type of damage, so a missileboat is easy to configure if you know what's coming. Guns comparatively are limited in damage types - lasers for EM/thermal, railguns for Kin/thermal, and projectiles for Exp/Kin, for the most part. 2) The Drake is a shield-tanker, with passive bonuses to shield resiwtances per BC level. That, combined with it's number of high slots (6), makes is almost trivial to configure a worry-free completely PASSIVE tank that's immune to neutralizers. Drones for jammers, and with it's tank webbers can be pretty much ignored since a well-tanked Drake doesn't need to move. 3) Missiles are a comparatively long-range weapon as well - heavies have a range (depending on skill) of up to 80 km BEFORE mods - optimum on most medium guns is well short of that. The above reasons are why Drakes are regarded as the kings of level 3 missioning - anything else will require much more thought on the player's part than simply warping in, hitting f1-f7, and retargeting. This is all in regards to PvE, of course - Missiles have their own issues in PvP (flight time, can be dodged, etc) whihc make Drakes not the optimum choice. You asked about the Ferox and the Cyclone - They both can do level 3s, they take more training though, as guns require more invested skillpoints to get good returns than missiles do. You can fit rails on a Ferox and get a decent tank going - it won't be the uncrackable nut that the Drake is (one less mid slot, lesser targeting range.) it can still do quite respectably. Cyclone can fit one more weapon than the Drake can (eight highslots for weapons/missiles as opposed to the Drake's seven. iut's also designed as a ACIVE shield tanker, as witness it's shield boost bonus - meaning you have to keep a eye on it, and any mission that has active neuts about (and there is at least one Level 3 that does - five neut towers, to be precise) your tank will dgo down during it - and a Cyclone doesn't have any passive resist bonuses. Five mid slots doesn't really give you a lot of choice about that :( It also has less of a targeting range than a Ferox, even though it too can use missiles - 45KM isn't a lot before skills and mods - and sensor boosters use midslots. So, it's up to you - either use a Drake for fly it and forget it missioning, or use a different one to play a more active role in your rat-killing.
Adaera	Posted - 2008.10.10 21:46:00 - [15] Originally by: Slippery Surgeon how about the cyclone or the ferox; are they lvl 3 worthy? I did level 3s in a buffer tanked missile Ferox without any problems at all, it's perfectly possible. The Drake, quite frankly, is overkill.
Wet Ferret	Posted - 2008.10.10 21:50:00 - [16] Originally by: Johann Callasan 1) Missiles can be loaded to adapt to ANY rat; there's a missile for each type of damage, so a missileboat is easy to configure if you know what's coming. Guns comparatively are limited in damage types - lasers for EM/thermal, railguns for Kin/thermal, and projectiles for Exp/Kin, for the most part. Sorry but this is wrong. The ship you're thinking of is the Raven. Drake does 2 damage types, (unbonused)EM and Kinetic. That is all. But, yeah. These forums seriously need some indicator that the post has ended and the sig has started.
Johann Callasan	Posted - 2008.10.10 23:45:00 - [17] Edited by: Johann Callasan on 10/10/2008 23:45:37 Originally by: Wet Ferret Originally by: Johann Callasan 1) Missiles can be loaded to adapt to ANY rat; there's a missile for each type of damage, so a missileboat is easy to configure if you know what's coming. Guns comparatively are limited in damage types - lasers for EM/thermal, railguns for Kin/thermal, and projectiles for Exp/Kin, for the most part. Sorry but this is wrong. The ship you're thinking of is the Raven. Drake does 2 damage types, (unbonused)EM and Kinetic. That is all. think you better check again before you spout this kind of nonsense. Drake gets a BONUS to kinetic damage, but can use ANY MISSILE IT CAN LOAD INTO IT'S LAUNCHERS. Raven gets a omnibonus, true - anyone who thinks the lack of a bonus makes a Drake (or any other ship) unable to use a certain type is quite frankly insane. Drake can use all kinda, and can deal all kinds of damage, depending on the ammo loaded - just as any missileboat can, and gunboats can't without completely changing weapons. So, who's wrong here? Not me, fellah, Better reread.
Patri Andari Caldari	Posted - 2008.10.11 00:57:00 - [18] Originally by: Wet Ferret Originally by: Johann Callasan 1) Missiles can be loaded to adapt to ANY rat; there's a missile for each type of damage, so a missileboat is easy to configure if you know what's coming. Guns comparatively are limited in damage types - lasers for EM/thermal, railguns for Kin/thermal, and projectiles for Exp/Kin, for the most part. Sorry but this is wrong. The ship you're thinking of is the Raven. Drake does 2 damage types, (unbonused)EM and Kinetic. That is all. This guy is no noob. I can only assume alcohol is in play here. A fool usually thinks he is a genius
Karl Luckner	Posted - 2008.10.11 01:15:00 - [19] Edited by: Karl Luckner on 11/10/2008 01:17:27 Well, Drake maybe better, but with all important skills at 4 or 5, this ship is really boring. I prefer Ferox and Hurricane. Instant damage wins it for me. No wasted missiles on a target, no reduced damage against the smaller stuff. Tank, well, there are very few missions where you really need a "tank". I've got only a light passive shield tank on my Cane, and even against bloodraiders it was sufficient (much to may surprise). For the funfactor, I would go for a Cane. If skills are very low, get the Drake. Edit: with BC 5, kinetic outdamages EM at least on mercs, which are usually weak against EM.
Wet Ferret	Posted - 2008.10.11 03:53:00 - [20] Originally by: Johann Callasan think you better check again before you spout this kind of nonsense. Drake gets a BONUS to kinetic damage, but can use ANY MISSILE IT CAN LOAD INTO IT'S LAUNCHERS. Raven gets a omnibonus, true - anyone who thinks the lack of a bonus makes a Drake (or any other ship) unable to use a certain type is quite frankly insane. Drake can use all kinda, and can deal all kinds of damage, depending on the ammo loaded - just as any missileboat can, and gunboats can't without completely changing weapons. So, who's wrong here? Not me, fellah, Better reread. Since the discussion is about PvE, I am entirely right. There is never a reason to load Thermal or Explosive into a Drake against NPCs, with the possible and only exception of Angel elite cruisers (but the difference there is not even worth the reload time). Though EM is still significantly better against those rats that are normally weak to it, even with BC V. Go pull up a ship database and do the math. Drake only ever uses EM or Kinetic, period. But, yeah. These forums seriously need some indicator that the post has ended and the sig has started.

Johann Callasan	Posted - 2008.10.11 05:08:00 - [21] Originally by: Wet Ferret Originally by: Johann Callasan think you better check again before you spout this kind of nonsense. Drake gets a BONUS to kinetic damage, but can use ANY MISSILE IT CAN LOAD INTO IT'S LAUNCHERS. Raven gets a omnibonus, true - anyone who thinks the lack of a bonus makes a Drake (or any other ship) unable to use a certain type is quite frankly insane. Drake can use all kinda, and can deal all kinds of damage, depending on the ammo loaded - just as any missileboat can, and gunboats can't without completely changing weapons. So, who's wrong here? Not me, fellah, Better reread. Since the discussion is about PvE, I am entirely right. There is never a reason to load Thermal or Explosive into a Drake against NPCs, with the possible and only exception of Angel elite cruisers (but the difference there is not even worth the reload time). Though EM is still significantly better against those rats that are normally weak to it, even with BC V. Go pull up a ship database and do the math. Drake only ever uses EM or Kinetic, period. L. O. L. I fly a Drake, and I load according to what the rats' weaknesses are, so not ALL drakes use either EM or Kinetic only - especially when their pilots aren't at BC 5. Watch your generalities - they'll bite you every time. Like they just did.
Wet Ferret	Posted - 2008.10.11 05:25:00 - [22] Originally by: Johann Callasan L. O. L. I fly a Drake, and I load according to what the rats' weaknesses are, so not ALL drakes use either EM or Kinetic only - especially when their pilots aren't at BC 5. Watch your generalities - they'll bite you every time. Like they just did. I use BC IV when doing my calcs, since that's my skill level. The only advice I'd give anyone with less than that is to train more ship skills before flying it. That said, if you're using thermal or explosive you are doing less damage which makes the ability to use those damage types meaningless. But, yeah. These forums seriously need some indicator that the post has ended and the sig has started.
Shereza	Posted - 2008.10.11 06:29:00 - [23] Just a few observations... #1 While "any" battlecruiser may do a level 3 mission some, like the brutix and possibly prophecy, are less suited to the job than others, like the ferox. #2 "Speed tanking" in a mission, especially low-level missions, is far inferior to range tanking. If you've got the range that they can't shoot you then you just need to be fast enough to keep them from closing. #3 Insofar as level 3 missions are concerned the ferox is just as good for tanking as the drake is, possibly better for poorly skilled players since it has more power grid which can compensate for low levels of shield upgrades, engineering, and advanced weapon upgrades. #4 You really shouldn't be shield tanking a hurricane, period, even if it's for a "buffer." Dual MAR tank with an afterburner and 3 hardeners and you're perfectly fine. For that matter in L3 missions if you've got decent drone skills and use T2 drones you'll likely kill most of the rats with your drones before you close to range if you use a short-range build. _____ To respond to the original post, drake has the top tank and hurricane has the top raw DPS, between those two ships. Personally, I've used both ships in L3 missions. I did an uber-tank drake and a dual rep armor-tanked hurricane with autocannons, HAM launchers, and an afterburner and both had their good and bad points. Hurricane did way more raw DPS but the range was so short that by the time I got to a good firing range my drones had killed what I was chasing most of the time. Then there's the small problem where NPCs have a tendency to run away from you if you chase them down. I suppose fitting an AB and using long-range guns/launchers instead of short-range weapons and running away would solve the problem, and probably let you get away with using just a single rep, but the idea really doesn't feel right to me. Drake can take a pounding with a passive shield tank so good that you can be pathetically skilled and still not have it crack, even without rigs, in almost any L3 mission. In point of fact you can walk into a lot of missions in the drake, get all the aggro, then deploy drones and go afk for half an hour while your 5 light drones kill everything off. Problem is that it'll have lower raw DPS, though higher single-element DPS, and it'll be quite a bit slower which means potentially longer transit times in the mission. In the end it's pretty much the same thing as a drake vs. myrmidon debate. They both get the job done and one's better in one area while the other's better in another area. Pick one that best suits your personal style, or that you think looks the best. ____________________ Minmatar in Fantasy or Duct Tape Goes Medieval.
Ghoest	Posted - 2008.10.11 12:18:00 - [24] Rail Ferox T2 fitted I think the rail Ferox with 2 heavy missles clears level 3s quickest. You can quickly volley most of the frigs as they approach then it makes quick work of everything else. If you think corp is different than a guild or clan you have some insecurity issues.
Cpt Branko Surge.	Posted - 2008.10.11 12:26:00 - [25] Tbh: some time ago I tried to get jumpclone standings (without corp hopping, I don't want to mess up my employment history, its already bad enough), by running some minmatar missions. Gave up quite fast though as missions are a major pain, and getting standings would take forever. However: I found that it's very trivial to do them in a AF, but I also gave my gatecamping artycane setup a spin, since it enabled me to warp off and kill stuff when scouts reported something juicy. I found that a 2x LSE II + DC II + resist rig tank is preety much all I needed, since damage > everything else. BC V + spec IV + all L5 gunneries + 3% rof/ 5% damage implants + 3xgyrostab II, it just eats through stuff at virtually every range, and Warrior IIs eat frigates and stuff arties will have issue hitting < 10km. So my conclusion is that people simply overtank with the L3 mission running Drake for no good reason, since damage really rules. Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail mods@ccpgames.com ~Saint
Coros Sebiestor tribe	Posted - 2008.10.11 13:10:00 - [26] Originally by: Wet Ferret Originally by: Johann Callasan think you better check again before you spout this kind of nonsense. Drake gets a BONUS to kinetic damage, but can use ANY MISSILE IT CAN LOAD INTO IT'S LAUNCHERS. Raven gets a omnibonus, true - anyone who thinks the lack of a bonus makes a Drake (or any other ship) unable to use a certain type is quite frankly insane. Drake can use all kinda, and can deal all kinds of damage, depending on the ammo loaded - just as any missileboat can, and gunboats can't without completely changing weapons. So, who's wrong here? Not me, fellah, Better reread. Since the discussion is about PvE, I am entirely right. There is never a reason to load Thermal or Explosive into a Drake against NPCs, with the possible and only exception of Angel elite cruisers (but the difference there is not even worth the reload time). Though EM is still significantly better against those rats that are normally weak to it, even with BC V. Go pull up a ship database and do the math. Drake only ever uses EM or Kinetic, period. LMAO WTH is this dude smoking? http://www.ogrank.com/content/view/698/59/ http://npc.elfarto.com So you use kinetic against everything because Drake has bonus to it? Maybe you should learn how resistances work...
Mioelnir Minmatar Meltd0wn iPOD Alliance	Posted - 2008.10.11 14:20:00 - [27] Just as an example, Resistances of a Gist Saint: EM 74%, EX 44%, KN 54%, TH 64% I don't have a char that can fly a Drake, so EFT it is. Havoc Heavy Missile on All-5 char: 206.25 damage After resists: 206.25 * 0.56 = 115.5 Scourge Heavy Missile on All-5 char: 257.8125 damage After resists: 257.8125 * 0.46 = 118.59375 (= +2.67%)
Johann Callasan	Posted - 2008.10.11 18:08:00 - [28] Originally by: Mioelnir Just as an example, Resistances of a Gist Saint: EM 74%, EX 44%, KN 54%, TH 64% I don't have a char that can fly a Drake, so EFT it is. Havoc Heavy Missile on All-5 char: 206.25 damage After resists: 206.25 * 0.56 = 115.5 Scourge Heavy Missile on All-5 char: 257.8125 damage After resists: 257.8125 * 0.46 = 118.59375 (= +2.67%) Now, try re-figuring that on a character with Heavy Missiles 4, BC 3... You'll find that you do mre damage using Havocs instead of Scourge. It's not a perfect world, and not everyone is a All V character (the theoreticall perfect character). TBH, I'm probrably not going to train up to BC 5, since I'm planning to move up to BS, and would rather spend the training time training up that instead. So both you and Wet Ferret are advocating the min-maxer's perfcet case - whcih, in real game terms, rarely is the case. That's why EFT warriors are so often laughed at - their "perfect case" is rarely the case in-game :)
Wet Ferret	Posted - 2008.10.11 20:04:00 - [29] Originally by: Coros LMAO WTH is this dude smoking? http://www.ogrank.com/content/view/698/59/ http://npc.elfarto.com So you use kinetic against everything because Drake has bonus to it? Maybe you should learn how resistances work... Do you know how to read? EM and kinetic. EM vs EM vulnerable NPCs, Kinetic vs everything else, the resist differentials for anything that's weak to therm or explosive (save for a select few angel's ships) are not enough to make the specific damage types worth using. For those few Angel's ships the differential is generally so small you will end up killing it faster with Kinetic thanks to doing 20% or so more damage to structure - not to mention the 10 second reload time. But, yeah. These forums seriously need some indicator that the post has ended and the sig has started.
Galan Undris	Posted - 2008.10.11 20:06:00 - [30] Originally by: Johann Callasan Now, try re-figuring that on a character with Heavy Missiles 4, BC 3... Please explain how the heavy missile skill affects this, I'd sure like to know At lvl 4 BC kinetic do just about the same vs exp/thermal weak rats as thermal/exp missiles, at lvl5 it's usually better to use kinetic. Below that you're better off changing them around, for the 4-5 days it takes to train it to 4, if you're an EFT warrior botherign with those extra ~5% damage that is . Quote: That's why EFT warriors are so often laughed at - their "perfect case" is rarely the case in-game :) So you advocate dealing with 4 instead of 2 types of ammo because you don't want to use the "optimal". Right...

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