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Aylleen
Die Hard Carebears
32
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Posted - 2012.03.31 15:18:00 -
[61] - Quote
Liang Nuren wrote:So with all of this in mind, I believe that the CSM white paper should be amended in such a way that the CSM candidates (and eventual CSM members) real names and countries of origin are not given to the player base as a whole - but strictly to CCP. -Liang
I agree, but I would like to amend your proposal. Any CSM delegate - or an EVE Online player for that matter - that discloses personal information pertaining another player, or if he or she commits an act - both in-game or OCC - that is illegal (like inciting to suicide), should be banned permanently. Reporting the crime to authorities by CCP should be mandatory.
Extensive leeway are given to people who play the game. They can grief, gank, kill, bash, destroy, all for the purpose of good laughs. It's the "sandbox" - whatever that means.
But those who have great privileges should also have great responsibility. You can't commit not even ONE illegal act. You cannot break the laws of your host country by inciting people to harass your enemy until he suicides.
That's where the line must be drawn. That is the fact that many here are conveniently dismissing. This proposal -as it is - will only protect CSM delegates, who are already powerful players within the game.
We regular players should be also protected from them. And I am not talking about a 30-day ban. |
Richard Desturned
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
118
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Posted - 2012.03.31 15:22:00 -
[62] - Quote
Aylleen wrote:I agree, but I would like to amend your proposal. Any CSM delegate - or an EVE Online player for that matter - that discloses personal information pertaining another player, or if he or she commits an act - both in-game or OCC - that is illegal (like inciting to suicide), should be banned permanently. Reporting the crime to authorities by CCP should be mandatory.
That is already the case. "Nullsec alliances will now begin counting reporters on staff along with supercapitals and tech moons. Unironically." - The Mittani |
JamesCLK
Lone Star Exploration Lone Star Partners
146
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Posted - 2012.03.31 15:24:00 -
[63] - Quote
/signed |
Arkon Olacar
Imperial Guardians The Aurora Shadow
4
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Posted - 2012.03.31 15:29:00 -
[64] - Quote
Aylleen wrote:Liang Nuren wrote:So with all of this in mind, I believe that the CSM white paper should be amended in such a way that the CSM candidates (and eventual CSM members) real names and countries of origin are not given to the player base as a whole - but strictly to CCP. -Liang I agree, but I would like to amend your proposal. Any CSM delegate - or an EVE Online player for that matter - that discloses personal information pertaining another player, or if he or she commits an act - both in-game or OCC - that is illegal (like inciting to suicide), should be banned permanently. Reporting the crime to authorities by CCP should be mandatory. Extensive leeway are given to people who play the game. They can grief, gank, kill, bash, destroy, all for the purpose of good laughs. It's the "sandbox" - whatever that means. But those who have great privileges should also have great responsibility. You can't commit not even ONE illegal act. You cannot break the laws of your host country by inciting people to harass your enemy until he suicides. That's where the line must be drawn. That is the fact that many here are conveniently dismissing. This proposal -as it is - will only protect CSM delegates, who are already powerful players within the game. We regular players should be also protected from them. And I am not talking about a 30-day ban. Sorry, what? How will this protect CSM delegates? CCP will still have the real life contact details, as they do for any player, and CCP already report harrassment cases to the relevant authorities. This thread is simply asking for CSM candidates to be treated like any other player with regards to their personal details - hardly an unreasonable request. I don't understand what actual change you are asking for - this just sounds like a subtle request for The Mittani to be permabanned, and that is not what this thread is about. 'Mittensgate' has been dealt with, case closed. |
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
719
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Posted - 2012.03.31 15:30:00 -
[65] - Quote
Liang Nuren wrote: We as a player community have proven that we are not responsible enough, not mature enough, and not sane enough to be trusted with this information and this proposal is meant to help our upcoming CSM candidates - those whose real names aren't known yet.
True fact. The community was very disappointing in that respect.
Supported. Rifterlings - Small gang lowsec combat corp specializing in frigates and cruisers (all races, not just Rifters!). US Timezone veterans and newbies alike are welcome to join. Come chat in the "we fly rifters" in-game channel. Free fitted frigates for members! |
Nagapito
The Scope Gallente Federation
11
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Posted - 2012.03.31 15:46:00 -
[66] - Quote
/signed |
Graf Sarn
Perkone Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2012.03.31 16:09:00 -
[67] - Quote
Supporting the OP |
Marcus Shamonomonom
University of Caille Gallente Federation
49
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Posted - 2012.03.31 16:10:00 -
[68] - Quote
So does CCP worry about my parking tickets? Is that gonna be a thing now? Oh look, a copy of NC's forums: http://dumps.eve-leaks.co.uk/nc-dot.com/forum.html |
Amy Garzan
Department of Defence Fatal Ascension
4
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Posted - 2012.03.31 16:32:00 -
[69] - Quote
Signed
Anyone whos ever heard of the one corp who went to a dudes house just to kill his power to kill his supercap needs to sign this (this isnt a made up story) |
Richard Desturned
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
118
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Posted - 2012.03.31 17:14:00 -
[70] - Quote
Amy Garzan wrote:Signed
Anyone whos ever heard of the one corp who went to a dudes house just to kill his power to kill his supercap needs to sign this (this isnt a made up story)
That didn't actually happen - Mittens refused to dig up the dude's address for RA. "Nullsec alliances will now begin counting reporters on staff along with supercapitals and tech moons. Unironically." - The Mittani |
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HELIC0N ONE
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
182
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Posted - 2012.03.31 17:26:00 -
[71] - Quote
Richard Desturned wrote:Amy Garzan wrote:Signed
Anyone whos ever heard of the one corp who went to a dudes house just to kill his power to kill his supercap needs to sign this (this isnt a made up story) That didn't actually happen - Mittens refused to dig up the dude's address for RA.
And also the player flying the Titan turned out to be working for CCP. |
Sverige Pahis
Thunderwaffe Goonswarm Federation
949
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Posted - 2012.03.31 17:55:00 -
[72] - Quote
Quartzlight Evenstar Icefluxor wrote:I say to not cave in to those particular elements within EVE. They will have 'won'.
Especially with the way some sectors of EVE players s***talk (they just don't know when enough is enough though), even this extreme talk is probably not serious, just NOT thinking and more than likely it is (again) alcohol influenced.
Better to deal with law enforcement (with NO delay) if necessary like last night on a case by case basis ahould this arise again in the future.
Upd: EVE needs to have the 'bad boy on the block" reputation, but now it seems more like the 'psychotic idiot on the block'. Alliance and Corp members need to 'eyeball' thier members better. These behaviors are usually evident in some fashion BEFORE these things happen. But then the type they hang around with probably think it's funny.
Update 2: I see the GOONS are really FOR this. And MAINLY Goons. I smell a rat. CSM and CCP really better THINK HARD before doing away with RL names. Seems to me like someone is trying to pull a stunt and get away with something anonymously. More than likely they have found an exploit of a sort. I'd be REAL careful here.................
Update 3: Re-read the article about all of this. I'd be careful (I can't stress that enough) and REALLY BE SURE that was not somebody's idea of a bad joke on that radio show. Something seems staged about it. THAT needs to be looked into as well.
Besides, a CSM composed of anonymous Toons will not be taken very seriously at all, and may as well not exist.
Signed, James Causey, Palm Harbor, FL
I haven't seen so much abuse of the capslock key and tinfoil since I last played Beneath a Steel Sky (cool indy game still works well check it out) |
Sir Marksalot
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
136
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Posted - 2012.03.31 18:18:00 -
[73] - Quote
signing this internet forums petition |
Ines Fy
Heroes of the Past Goonswarm Federation
28
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Posted - 2012.03.31 18:42:00 -
[74] - Quote
/signed |
Sister Rhode
Wildly Inappropriate Goonswarm Federation
21
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Posted - 2012.03.31 19:11:00 -
[75] - Quote
Signed. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
5852
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Posted - 2012.03.31 19:12:00 -
[76] - Quote
Signed. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Find more rants over at Tippis' Rants. |
Innominate
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
166
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Posted - 2012.03.31 19:15:00 -
[77] - Quote
Aylleen wrote:But those who have great privileges should also have great responsibility. You can't commit not even ONE illegal act. You cannot break the laws of your host country by inciting people to harass your enemy until he suicides. .
Illegal as determine by who exactly?
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Richard Bong
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
34
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Posted - 2012.03.31 19:29:00 -
[78] - Quote
/signed
[ASK] Me about drive by thread shitting! |
admiral root
Red Galaxy Persona Non Gratis
47
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Posted - 2012.03.31 20:08:00 -
[79] - Quote
Quartzlight Evenstar Icefluxor wrote:Kilylol wrote: Surely you must have missed the part of the OP where he says that only CCP must know the names(I feel you bro, reading is hard).
Oh, that's right! Nobody at CCP EVER leaks any information, ever. Just ask Hilmar about that................ Also, the TIMING of this is suspicious. Late on a Friday Night. CCP gone and only a few hapless GM's around for the next 48 hours. How convenient.
Issler / Darius / whichever other muppet you are, you've clearly perfected acting like a 5 year old. No need for you to continue practicing.
+1 for the proposal, although I agree with an earlier poster - if we don't know their real name, where's the harm in knowing their country? |
Harrigan VonStudly
The Generic Pirate Corporation Fusion.
13
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Posted - 2012.03.31 20:21:00 -
[80] - Quote
I completely agree.
/signed |
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Adriel Malakai
Shoulda Checked Local Break-A-Wish Foundation
21
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Posted - 2012.03.31 20:54:00 -
[81] - Quote
/signed |
Adainy Gwanwyn
Legion of Darkwind Order of the Void
17
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Posted - 2012.03.31 21:08:00 -
[82] - Quote
/MEGASIGN
I agree with Liang.
Also some great conspiracy theories being thrown around in here, could make for an awesome B-movie. |
Buzzy Warstl
The Strontium Asylum
85
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Posted - 2012.03.31 21:12:00 -
[83] - Quote
There exist people playing EvE who have nothing else in their life and who are clearly potential risks to those around them.
You can't get this many people together and *not* have such people.
While it's good for us to have some idea about the people behind the characters when choosing who we want to support for CSM, public disclosure of personal information should be strictly optional. |
Ugleb
Sarz'na Khumatari Ushra'Khan
185
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Posted - 2012.03.31 21:24:00 -
[84] - Quote
Arkon Olacar wrote:Ugleb wrote:I generally agree with the need for caution, but I do have one issue with this, and it might even be the reason why CCP chose to publish names in the first place, I dunno.
If the real names off applicants are removed from the process, doesn't that increase the chance of a player with a poor reputation using an alt to run for the CSM?
There may be players who would not vote for a certain candidate because of a past action (say The Mittani) or because of a poltical association (a certain alliance etc) but who would vote for his publicly unknown alt that is 'untainted' by a colourful past.
While revealing a real world identity could be abused, it also helps to identify individual players from largely anonymous character identities that can be legitimately bought or sold.
If real names were removed from the process, there should be another means of identifying players beyond the character name they choose to compete with.
An alt of The Mittani would still benefit from the channelled support of Goonswarm, but be freed of much of the current controversy now on his shoulders. Is that right? You forget one thing - controversy does not mean someone cannot get elected. As long as this was not dodging a ban on running for CSM - CCP would need to investigate, using real names and billing info which they and only they should possess - then there is no reason why Mittens or Darius or anyone else who has made themselves infamous by their actions should be able to stand. Plus the alt would need to develop a good reputation before non-voting bloc members would vote for him. If Mittens stood for election for CSM using an unknown alt, and commanded all goons to vote for him, he would receive goon votes and maybe a dozen more of so. If he stood as The Mittani, he would receive all goon votes and hundreds, if not thousands, of non-goons who like his attitude or policies. As shown by the voting results of CSM 7, an unknown toon without the support of a voting bloc will gather no votes. Even high profile but inept candidates received a pitiful number of votes. To get elected, you either need the support of a voting bloc - goons will vote for The Mittani, whether standing as The Mittani or an alt - or you need to be a competant, high profile candidate who has been a key part in the community for a number of months, potentially years. So these concerns about alts 'abusing' the system really are minimal, especially compared to candidates personal contact details potentially being abused, a la mittensgate.
I do not mean to say that someone should be rendered ineligible for election simply for being 'controversial'. The only reason they should ever be ineligible is if they have broken the EULA/TOS and have not served out the penalties.
I agree that what I am talking about is likely to be a fringe case, but it is something I can see being manipulated by a determined enough player in order to side-step a poor reputation. It might be difficult, but that would not make it impossible.
A player might be an infamous forum troll/griefer/suspected or even once banned exploiter (whose real name is known to some at least for insert reason here) with one character. But in a relatively short space of time he could become a prolific Incursion running FC with another chracter and then use that one to run for CSM. Isn't it fair on the voters to know who they are supposedly voting for?
Note: I do think there could be a solution to this scenario that doesn't involve listing real names/country of origin publicly. http://uglebsjournal.wordpress.com/ |
Two step
Aperture Harmonics K162
1801
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Posted - 2012.03.31 21:37:00 -
[85] - Quote
I agree with this entirely. I don't see what is gained other than making sure people don't run again under a different name, which could easily be controlled by CCP. Vote Two step for CSM7 CSM 6 Alternate Delegate @two_step_eve on Twitter My Blog |
Raoul Alberto
State War Academy Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2012.03.31 21:39:00 -
[86] - Quote
An over-reaction to a particular event. Fanfest is over. Let it go.
I prefer my own anonymity, as do we all. But I am not particularly ashamed of anything I have ever said or done in any of the MMOs I have played over the last decade. I'll keep my anonymity to the extent I can, as long as I can, but I don't want any scary gaming company police-state apparatus erected to enforce it, as some in this thread seem to be calling for.
Internet privacy generally is an illusion and becoming more so every day. Fact of digital life. Get used to it. Don't expect to be able to lead one life one place and another elsewhere and never see the two put together.
If someone wants to stand for election to represent players to a company and to the larger world via the gaming media, I think we should have a right to know who they are and, if we wish, check them out in "real life." I don't want to see some known troll from somewhere else (e.g., Second Life) elected here just because no one can put the pieces together.
If you can't stand the heat, stay out of the kitchen.
As for The Mittani, his real name was not just revealed as a candidate and member of the CSM, he used it himself in making his Apology and trying to draw a distinction between the amorality of his game character and his shocked real moral self.
That someone posted his address is reprehensible and, if done in-game or on a CCP forum or other asset, that should fall well within the kind of harassment that already can be sanctioned under CCP's current TOS/EULA. If the TOS/EULA need to be amended to make that clearer for the future, ok, I'm fine with that kind of limited change.
But don't expect or ask CCP to set itself up as some kind of World-Wide-Web Gaming Police-State to ferret out and protect its players everywhere they might ever be mentioned. It won't happen and would lead to a nightmarish witch-hunt atmosphere of suspicion, accusation and counter-accusation, and dirty-trick fraudulent postings.
Actual RL threats are a different story, entirely. Those are matters for the police, not to be dealt with by a gaming company.
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RougeOperator
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
665
|
Posted - 2012.03.31 21:43:00 -
[87] - Quote
You dont want to give up your name, dont run for CSM.
You run more risk of being harassed on facebook then you do being on the CSM.
Any IRL harassment that may occur on can easily be taken care of by the local authorities and a petition to CCP.
Most of the fallout and continued fallout can be laid squarely at Mittens feet.
That Eve Radio stunt was pathetic. Space wizards are real, they can make 10058 votes vanish. "and for a moment i hurd 10k goons cry out, then silence"-á |
Pixxie Twilight
80
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Posted - 2012.03.31 22:07:00 -
[88] - Quote
Liang Nuren wrote:Tonight I listened to Eve Radio where the CSM spoke about The Mittani Scandal and then The Mittani and Nyphur talked about the consequences and fallout of associating real life name with overly sensationalist terms. The conversation was much less dramatic than I expected and I'm very thankful that Nyphur was so willing to work with The Mittani. Eventually they even made up and almost e-hugged. How cute.
However, there's an important take away to be had here: what could have been a story about a drunk mostly anonymous ******* making an exceptionally stupid comment at Fanfest became so much more because of the use of a real name. The news elements fed off of each other with all making various untrue allegations towards not The Mittani - but the player behind The Mittani. And really, this is hardly the first time that someone's real life name has come up in terms of their actions on the CSM - for instance there are several people who have been accused (but not "convicted") of breaking the NDA and now their real life is similarly affected. So effectively: the use of a real name takes things to the next level. And this is going to be true any time someone's real life name is used - whether that person is The Mittani, Jade Constantine, Liang Nuren, or yours.
At any rate, at the end of the show, someone posted The Mittani's real life address and someone else said they were headed that way to **** The Mittani's wife. This isn't the first time I've seen something like this said, but I've learned a lot about the way CCP handles it since the last time I saw it so directly. And just to be clear: CCP takes these threats very seriously and I wouldn't be surprised if someone's received a visit from their local law enforcement tonight.
So with all of this in mind, I believe that the CSM white paper should be amended in such a way that the CSM candidates (and eventual CSM members) real names and countries of origin are not given to the player base as a whole - but strictly to CCP. The real life information of current CSM members is already available, but that's no reason for future members to potentially be put in similar real life situations.
We as a player community have proven that we are not responsible enough, not mature enough, and not sane enough to be trusted with this information and this proposal is meant to help our upcoming CSM candidates - those whose real names aren't known yet. Maybe even people like you.
-Liang
/signed
because if it's true that real life candidate names and addresses are now being circulated in a way that could result in violence against candidates/their families, that should raise concern.
If I was a brat, I'd ask whether the real life candidate information was circulated by posters using their own real life names, or if they were hiding behind anonymous internet identities. Posting disagreeable or potentially threatening material anonymously can be seen as a calculated way to avoid accountability.
For all we know, CCP & the CSM may already be thinking along similar lines.
Re this whole panel drama, part of being human is making mistakes and then having to take responsibility, make things right with any injured party, accept whatever punishment comes down, and then with those things done, to be being allowed to move on better and wiser than before. I'd want the same for myself, so I'm hoping this community settles down soon. I've been avoiding forums with all the neverending rage and bickering. That's all I have on this.
Pixxie T >^^<
(Viva Small Alliances!!) ****~~~ NEW PLAYER PODCAST ~ -áPIXXIE'S EVE ONLINE PODCAST ~~~**** ******Latest Episode** EPISODE 8 ** SWTOR ** NULLSEC PVP ** CSM****** ~~~~~~~~~-á On iTunes and at http://pixxietwilight.podbean.com/ ~~~~~~~~~ |
Richard Bong
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
34
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Posted - 2012.03.31 22:15:00 -
[89] - Quote
RougeOperator wrote:You dont want to give up your name, dont run for CSM.
You run more risk of being harassed on facebook then you do being on the CSM.
Any IRL harassment that may occur on can easily be taken care of by the local authorities and a petition to CCP.
Most of the fallout and continued fallout can be laid squarely at Mittens feet.
That Eve Radio stunt was pathetic. Next time try having someone one with an opposing view point that wasnt bullied into changing his tune on. It was nothing but propagandist fluff by cheerleaders.
Oh so things like people threatening to kill his dog and posting his home address can easily be solved by a petition to CCP and the local authorities... Because so far CCP hasn't done much to help with that (other than banning that creepy kid which was handled well imo) because they can't police off site stuff and since this is international, townie cops aren't going to help much. You know what would solve this problem before it becomes one? Not having his name out there.
What is gained by having the name of the panel out there? [ASK] Me about drive by thread shitting! |
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat Working Stiffs
569
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Posted - 2012.03.31 22:36:00 -
[90] - Quote
Supported.
I don't think their real names are relevant to the position.
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