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Ayla Hanaya
Hellbound Turkeys Alliance of Abandoned Cybernetic Rejects
1
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Posted - 2012.03.31 23:43:00 -
[91] - Quote
/signed
Totally support this, bringing someones real life location and information into the public eye is serious business, and while what Mittani did wasn't right, what others did to him with the threats of violence and other "retribution" were even less right. Responding with an "Eye for an Eye" attitude is not right. Sure you can kill someone repeatedly in game and generally make their in-game life suck, but the instant you take that into RL, you have crossed that thin red line. and you should be dealt with swiftly and to the fullest extent of the law, one might even say cold-calling someone and delivering a death threat is a "terroristic action" There is a clear separation between the game and RL, it should never be crossed. ~ 10.058 ~ A Mittani-less CSM7 does not represent the players. Bring on CSM8.
NEVER STOP POASTING
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Banderlei Shiiba
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
36
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Posted - 2012.03.31 23:51:00 -
[92] - Quote
Ugleb wrote:I generally agree with the need for caution, but I do have one issue with this, and it might even be the reason why CCP chose to publish names in the first place, I dunno.
If the real names off applicants are removed from the process, doesn't that increase the chance of a player with a poor reputation using an alt to run for the CSM?
There may be players who would not vote for a certain candidate because of a past action (say The Mittani) or because of a poltical association (a certain alliance etc) but who would vote for his publicly unknown alt that is 'untainted' by a colourful past.
While revealing a real world identity could be abused, it also helps to identify individual players from largely anonymous character identities that can be legitimately bought or sold.
If real names were removed from the process, there should be another means of identifying players beyond the character name they choose to compete with.
Well, CCP will still always have the RL info (it's a necessity, due to the requirement of passport copies as proof of ability to travel to Iceland), so it wouldn't be difficult to include info like "ran preivously as (old character)", or "(character name) has been sold to a new player". It's a bit more work for whoever handles it (though not much), but it's hugely preferred to publicly releasing RL details.
That said I don't really see that being a problem ANYWAY, as anonymity is pretty much your worst enemy in something like this. Take a look at Darius III for example - he's certainly not someone known for positive things in his previous term, yet because his name was known, because he made his presence felt and used actual things he had done (or not done) as a hook to have people talk about him, he managed to get elected. Had he just rolled an anonymous alt to run again, he wouldn't have any of that to grab anyone's attention, and he'd probably be somewhere in Xenuria territory votes-wise. |
Yuki 0nna
The White Rose Conventicle
44
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Posted - 2012.04.01 00:30:00 -
[93] - Quote
Posting of The Mittani's real life address is harassment (invitation to mischief) beyond anything he said or did at Fanfest.
Threat to his wife is no joke. Can never tell who is a sick joker and who is truly deranged, but that's not for CCP or any of us to sort out. That's for the police to investigate.
But just as in RL, if you want to run for any kind of office, it's not unreasonable to require that you give up some of your expectation of privacy and that you accept greater responsibility for all your words and actions.
You are going to speak for us, be one of our public faces. We should know and be able to verify who you are, not your in-game persona. Your in-game self may be a villain; your real-life self honorable. But it might also be the other way around.
Many good reasons not to want that kind of scrutiny. Some bad. Either case, don't stand for office.
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RougeOperator
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
673
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Posted - 2012.04.01 00:55:00 -
[94] - Quote
Yuki 0nna wrote:Posting of The Mittani's real life address is harassment (invitation to mischief) beyond anything he said or did at Fanfest.
Threat to his wife is no joke. Can never tell who is a sick joker and who is truly deranged, but that's not for CCP or any of us to sort out. That's for the police to investigate.
But just as in RL, if you want to run for any kind of office, it's not unreasonable to require that you give up some of your expectation of privacy and that you accept greater responsibility for all your words and actions.
You are going to speak for us, be one of our public faces. We should know and be able to verify who you are, not your in-game persona. Your in-game self may be a villain; your real-life self honorable. But it might also be the other way around.
Many good reasons not to want that kind of scrutiny. Some bad. Either case, don't stand for office.
Exactly, this is either a knee jerk reaction or more liang being a propaganda shill for the mittani. The suggesting is short sighted and silly.
These people represent all of the players. You know the risks of losing the anonymity shield going in. We cannot and should not have people with that kind of shield to hide behind making input calls into development cycles.
They are still elected representatives. I want to know the man as much as the character he uses in game when i vote for them. The IRL person matters more to me then their characters. I cant get and honest gauge of jack crap about a person if they are hiding behind their avatar and the persona of the avatar.
Knowing the real person matters.
People act very different when they think they are Anons.
When Voting for a CSM rep, you should be voting for the person. Not the character they play in game. Since that person is the one that will be making the calls and giving input. Not the character.
This suggesting is just crazy. Space wizards are real, they can make 10058 votes vanish. "and for a moment i hurd 10k goons cry out, then silence"-á |
Banderlei Shiiba
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
36
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Posted - 2012.04.01 01:11:00 -
[95] - Quote
RougeOperator wrote:Knowing the real person matters. .
Having their real name isn't knowing them at all, and if you believe that for a second, then you have a learning disability. |
Richard Bong
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
34
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Posted - 2012.04.01 01:23:00 -
[96] - Quote
You talk about this like it is real life politics. This is spaceship politics, all this talk about "accountability" has an underlying implication of revenge or consequences. If something illegal happens then CCP has the name anyway. There should be no way for a player to be harassed out of game using info from CCP, they shouldn't be forced to mix their eve personalities and real life to be on the player council. In game stuff needs to stay in game. [ASK] Me about drive by thread shitting! |
None ofthe Above
160
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Posted - 2012.04.01 01:50:00 -
[97] - Quote
RougeOperator wrote:
Exactly, this is either a knee jerk reaction or more liang being a propaganda shill for the mittani. The suggesting is short sighted and silly.
These people represent all of the players. You know the risks of losing the anonymity shield going in. We cannot and should not have people with that kind of shield to hide behind making input calls into development cycles.
They are still elected representatives. I want to know the man as much as the character he uses in game when i vote for them. The IRL person matters more to me then their characters. I cant get and honest gauge of jack crap about a person if they are hiding behind their avatar and the persona of the avatar.
Knowing the real person matters.
People act very different when they think they are Anons.
When Voting for a CSM rep, you should be voting for the person. Not the character they play in game. Since that person is the one that will be making the calls and giving input. Not the character.
This suggesting is just crazy.
Your bias is showing.
While I can sympathize with not being pro-goon, I think the benefit you get from requiring disclosure is almost negligible. You as a voter could of course decide to only vote for candidates who disclose.
The rest should sort itself out fine.
As far as crazy, I saw you on twitter raging along and then defending someone posting Mittani's real life address. (Or where you defending the guy who threatened to sexually assault his wife? Or are you that guy?)
Do you also defend Spike Lee's actions posting that address of that couple named Zimmerman recently? Would you have if it had been the right Zimmerman?
One wonders why you hate the goons so much considering your own goonish behavior. I think you are overdue for a long hard look in the mirror.
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Choc talar
Praetorian Mining and Planetary Exploitation
1
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Posted - 2012.04.01 02:35:00 -
[98] - Quote
/signed |
Stirko Hek
SUNDERING Goonswarm Federation
4
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Posted - 2012.04.01 02:56:00 -
[99] - Quote
/signed.
One has to wonder why certain parties are so desperate to have public, real life information on people from EVE, people who have either sparked controversy or are in positions such as the CSM.
This adds a very scary, stalkish feel to the EVE playing atmosphere. One in which we must be fearful for real life retribution in the form of threats or even someone carrying them through (seriously, what's to stop someone just finding this info, go to the address and take action in some violent, malicious way?). People might say Goons are horrible, they eat children, punch pregnant mothers, etc. But I've never heard one threaten someone in a violent, real life way, only in ways that involve violencing their spaceships.
There is no reason I need to know any of the CSM's real names. Nor anyone else outside CCP. |
Richard Desturned
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
130
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Posted - 2012.04.01 02:58:00 -
[100] - Quote
RougeOperator wrote:You know the risks of losing the anonymity shield going in.
And what justifies that risk? "Nullsec alliances will now begin counting reporters on staff along with supercapitals and tech moons. Unironically." - The Mittani |
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Bergon Darek
3
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Posted - 2012.04.01 04:04:00 -
[101] - Quote
In my opinion, anonymity for CSM candidates won't work.
At the end of the day, toons are pixels on a screen. The people on the CSM are the players, the people behind the toons. Since those people are representing the players as a whole to CCP, the players need to know who the people behind the toons are, because (in most cases) those people are very different from the toons they play.
Not signed. |
Richard Bong
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
35
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Posted - 2012.04.01 04:12:00 -
[102] - Quote
Bergon Darek wrote:In my opinion, anonymity for CSM candidates won't work.
At the end of the day, toons are pixels on a screen. The people on the CSM are the players, the people behind the toons. Since those people are representing the players as a whole to CCP, the players need to know who the people behind the toons are, because (in most cases) those people are very different from the toons they play.
Not signed.
And how does you having his name make that person come out?
[ASK] Me about drive by thread shitting! |
Uronksur Suth
Viziam Amarr Empire
8
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Posted - 2012.04.01 04:40:00 -
[103] - Quote
I don't support this. If someone wants to be among the few representing the entire player-base, and have such perks as an all-expense paid trip to Iceland, they can do us the courtesy of revealing such basic information as their name and country of residence. For me, it is more the principle here. I could maybe get behind striking their country, but not their name. I think running for CSM should involve opening up to the playerbase enough to share their real name. |
Richard Desturned
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
131
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Posted - 2012.04.01 05:12:00 -
[104] - Quote
Uronksur Suth wrote:I don't support this. If someone wants to be among the few representing the entire player-base, and have such perks as an all-expense paid trip to Iceland, they can do us the courtesy of revealing such basic information as their name and country of residence. For me, it is more the principle here. I could maybe get behind striking their country, but not their name. I think running for CSM should involve opening up to the playerbase enough to share their real name.
I wouldn't call attending meetings in Iceland, a country whose only real attraction for tourism is fishing, a "perk." "Nullsec alliances will now begin counting reporters on staff along with supercapitals and tech moons. Unironically." - The Mittani |
Liang Nuren
Parsec Flux
1406
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Posted - 2012.04.01 05:33:00 -
[105] - Quote
Uronksur Suth wrote:I don't support this. If someone wants to be among the few representing the entire player-base, and have such perks as an all-expense paid trip to Iceland, they can do us the courtesy of revealing such basic information as their name and country of residence. For me, it is more the principle here. I could maybe get behind striking their country, but not their name. I think running for CSM should involve opening up to the playerbase enough to share their real name.
Let me quote a piece of the OP here, because I think it really addresses your objection on the basis of courtesy nicely:
Quote: ... We as a player community have proven that we are not responsible enough, not mature enough, and not sane enough to be trusted with this information ...
-Liang Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?) Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com PVP Videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/LiangNuren/videos Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
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Seleene
Body Count Inc. Pandemic Legion
1512
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Posted - 2012.04.01 07:05:00 -
[106] - Quote
I support this idea. While it won't matter much to those of us serving currently, this is certianly something that, in light of recent events, is going to be discussed with CCP by the members of CSM 7. Seleene's Sandbox - My Blog, where I say stuff. Follow Seleene on Twitter |
Richard Bong
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
36
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Posted - 2012.04.01 07:19:00 -
[107] - Quote
Its the people who think having the name out there will keep them "accountable", with the underlying implication that in game things will be met with out of game reprisals. As if the names are leverage for a disgruntled player. Those are the people who genuinely worry me, and I imagine the CSM members feel the same. Some of you are creepy/unbalanced ******* people. [ASK] Me about drive by thread shitting! |
Stirko Hek
SUNDERING Goonswarm Federation
5
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Posted - 2012.04.01 07:28:00 -
[108] - Quote
How exactly does having their real life names make them any more accountable than if you don't? Is this so people unhappy with them can make threats on their pets and spouses?
I'm sorry, but that's total rubbish. A name doesn't make a bunch of pixels any more real to you, except if you want to go after them in real life.
The negative responses are very worrying. It's a game, you shouldn't have to know what or who these people are outside of it, even for the CSM. I don't exactly want to know where my elected politicans in my country live or do outside their official capacity, and I don't think I need to know either. |
RougeOperator
Ice Fire Warriors Late Night Alliance
691
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Posted - 2012.04.01 08:24:00 -
[109] - Quote
Wasnt and issue before.
All the sudden mittens gets in trouble, and its a jihad to hide from the public.
Dont want to give up your name, dont run. Space wizards are real, they can make 10058 votes vanish. "and for a moment i hurd 10k goons cry out, then silence"-á |
Liang Nuren
Parsec Flux
1408
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Posted - 2012.04.01 08:27:00 -
[110] - Quote
RougeOperator wrote:Wasnt and issue before.
All the sudden mittens gets in trouble, and its a jihad to hide from the public.
Dont want to give up your name, dont run.
This has literally nothing to do with The Mittani because his real name is already well known. Do try to stay on topic.
-Liang Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?) Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com PVP Videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/LiangNuren/videos Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
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Banderlei Shiiba
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
38
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Posted - 2012.04.01 08:55:00 -
[111] - Quote
RougeOperator wrote:Wasnt and issue before.
All the sudden mittens gets in trouble, and its a jihad to hide from the public.
Dont want to give up your name, dont run.
More like "Wasn't an issue before, then a half-psychotic playerbase decided to send a sitting CSM member actual RL threats"
Sounds like a very good reason to stop giving out players' personal info to me! |
Eidric
Shadows of HyperSpace Wormholes Holders
16
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Posted - 2012.04.01 09:13:00 -
[112] - Quote
I am Eidric and I support this post. |
Darek Castigatus
Immortalis Inc. Shadow Cartel
55
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Posted - 2012.04.01 10:00:00 -
[113] - Quote
Given some peoples hysterical over reaction i have to support this idea. +1 to you sir |
Arkon Olacar
Imperial Guardians The Aurora Shadow
5
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Posted - 2012.04.01 11:04:00 -
[114] - Quote
RougeOperator wrote:Wasnt and issue before.
All the sudden mittens gets in trouble, and its a jihad to hide from the public.
Dont want to give up your name, dont run. This is not about mittens, he has been banned, you can take the tin foil hat off now. You spent days in the threadnaught tearing into mittens for what he did, and yet when he is the victim of far worse than he ever inflicted on anyone else, you refuse to even consider a proposal that will prevent such real life harrassment happening again. Hypocrite.
And before you call me a goon alt, Im not, this is my main. I do like goons though - in the same way I like all major alliances that can have 90 dudes in a system, but are afraid of two dozen noobs in t1 cruisers. All hail goon bravery. |
Aineko Macx
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
166
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Posted - 2012.04.01 11:39:00 -
[115] - Quote
Liang Nuren wrote:Uronksur Suth wrote:I don't support this. If someone wants to be among the few representing the entire player-base, and have such perks as an all-expense paid trip to Iceland, they can do us the courtesy of revealing such basic information as their name and country of residence. For me, it is more the principle here. I could maybe get behind striking their country, but not their name. I think running for CSM should involve opening up to the playerbase enough to share their real name. Let me quote a piece of the OP here, because I think it really addresses your objection on the basis of courtesy nicely: Quote: ... We as a player community have proven that we are not responsible enough, not mature enough, and not sane enough to be trusted with this information ...
Well most of the time I agree with you Liang, but that is absurd. The argument has been abused countless times in history (only when convenient ofc). By that logic, all persons somehow exposed to publicity would have to run with pseudonyms. Imagine RL politics running anonymously lol. And it doesn't end there. If you want to keep anonymity for CSM members you'd have to avoid public appearances or broadcasts (at least with voice and image scrambling) because someone might identify them. And quite obviously with prominent use of facebook noone seems to give a fck.
CSM happens in meatspace and the idea to make it work like a virtual space is bound to fail. Also, revealing some personal details adds some accountability to the CSM candidacy which I find highly desirable.
I have to agree with RogueOperator, if you're not ok with that, don't run. |
Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
55
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Posted - 2012.04.01 11:59:00 -
[116] - Quote
Why they originally chose to release names in the first place is beyond me, but info such as nationality and occupation/education can not be used to identify an individual so can/should be available. |
Quartzlight Evenstar Icefluxor
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
5
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Posted - 2012.04.01 12:54:00 -
[117] - Quote
This does nothing but bring about an obvious exploitable situation.
This makes it entirely TOO easy to run counter "shadow campaigns" and pack your voting bloc.
Oh, that's right. The GOONS are all for this. Makes sense NOW. Ohh poor silly goon chillrens. Nobody in high sec cares about your plans to occupy jita like a bunch of dirty hippies. "....as if 10,058 Goon voices cried out and were suddenly silenced." |
Frying Doom
Black Thorne Corporation Black Thorne Alliance
143
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Posted - 2012.04.01 13:14:00 -
[118] - Quote
/signed Any Spelling, gramatical and literary errors made by me are included free of charge. |
Archdaimon
Merchants of the Golden Goose
23
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Posted - 2012.04.01 14:06:00 -
[119] - Quote
/signed. |
Arkon Olacar
Imperial Guardians The Aurora Shadow
5
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Posted - 2012.04.01 14:10:00 -
[120] - Quote
Quartzlight Evenstar Icefluxor wrote:This does nothing but bring about an obvious exploitable situation. This makes it entirely TOO easy to run counter "shadow campaigns" and pack your voting bloc. Oh, that's right. The GOONS are all for this. Makes sense NOW. You really do have an unhealthy obsession with goons... you do realise they arent actually that great? |
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