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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 6 post(s) |
Col Carter
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Posted - 2008.10.14 11:21:00 -
[1471]
Originally by: Liranan You guys are losing track of the real issue here. Iceland is literally bankrupt guys. This is no joke. Iceland is having to beg the most corrupt institution in the world (the IMF/World Bank) for money. While we all see companies go bankrupt and some of you might have lost jobs because of that imagine it on a nation wide scale!
Iceland is getting a lot of assistance, financial and otherwise from a variety of both external government, bank and institution sources. While it will be winging it for a few weeks, the first signs are visible on consumer indexes already that recovery will push through. A big reason is the human population mindset, which soldiers on as opposed to running off in panic mode. Something many other countries could learn a thing or two from, tbh. Icelandic corporations can now fall back on to a number of frameworks and programs to mitigate circumstances, cover credit gaps, as well as a good number of other options (ranging from payroll migration to foreign currency, stock consolidation plans, the list goes on).
Originally by: Liranan They raised the price of time cards so they were in line with other MMO's. That is understandable and normal. They were allowing players to play for one month for free, that got changed. I have never been for ghost training and have only done it when my subsciptions ran out and couldn't pay that instance.
Yet on a marketing level that is not the smartest thing to do, while it does meet the argument to tap into a broader market through recognition factors, it does nibble parts off the service which are its unique and supporting selling points. It's a matter of balancing the potential of larger customer markets with the realities of customer retention, in a way it's the age old battle of short term marketing versus long term marketing (where what is perceived and presented as long term ends up being the short term view). the GTC changes are significant in this, very significant. More then most people are willing to admit. But even more significant then this is the resulting chain of statistics coming from this change, even while influenced by uncertainty for other game changes.
Originally by: Liranan You guys need to stop accusing CCP of being greedy. CCP might have lost a lot of money when Icelandic banks collapsed, so they might have a hard time ahead of them.
What the real issue is CCP not telling us beforehand and not consulting with the players. The CSM exists for a reason, or maybe not. Another thing is the way they tried to spin this. You guys should be picking a problem with their claims that this is a bug, while they claim it's "A long overdue and much needed change".
Stop the whining about greed. CCP might have hard times ahead of them. Keep complaining about their presentation, that should be the real problem.
This is where marketing and sales comes in, and ultimately all this boils down to economics. Fundamental basis of economics is trust, not nice but unfortunately true. As such it isn't about facts or figures, but about expectations, very similar to what you can see in real life with the current first phases of the credit crunch.
In a nutshell, when you have a feature evolution or degradation like this, in marketing you make sure you balance the reception of changes. You are clear, you announce things allowing for adjusting, and you mitigate the worst by pairing it with something you give or enhance. Marketing one on one. Manner and form, stick and candy. Smart marketeers would have alloted time for introduction, and paired it with say something like a skill queue or promo options for customer retention.
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IR Scoutar
Caldari State War Academy
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Posted - 2008.10.14 11:23:00 -
[1472]
Edited by: IR Scoutar on 14/10/2008 11:38:09 timeline :
- CCP Decides to adjust GTC's "to be more inline with other MMO's"
- eve forums explode a little
- accounts get put on hiatus after their playtime runs out due to high gtc vs isk prices / regular price(no cc/debit card meaning less control )
- Months later financial crisis hits the world
- CCP states they are not affected
- some time later out of the blue an newly hired employee posts a very short information to server/website news stating that a "long overdue change" was about to happen
- eve forums explode
- well worded panic blog by senior ccp employee is written unfortunatly that dev didnt know anything about the actual topic and in effect lies to the customers
- eve forums explode
i see a trend
p.s. Mr. Hilmar Veigar Petursson here are a few ideas
Don't let new/unknown ccp employees anounce deep gamechanging things .. thats just not smart Fire your public relations team (not the poor comunity people who probably didnt know this was comming ... poor wrangler ) If your "Lead Economist" knew about this and didnt say anything... FIRE HIM ... hes useless Have a round table to discuss things like this with a few more people , who knows maby even the CSM . You might be able to predict your customers reaction to particular changes hope that helps you a little
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Hitman 001
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Posted - 2008.10.14 11:23:00 -
[1473]
this is just BS, yea it is a world crysis, and i can barely keep my founds together, but guess what , with the help of this feature i can keep my alts on. if you remove it i cant, so basicly gonna cancel 2 accoutns or maybe gonna get ****ed to bad and cancell all, and gonna start WOW or something. you wanna get rid of bugs? get my overviev fixed so it doesent bounce all around my monitor when i jump at the gate, or undock from the station, and get mixed with my fleet , drones window. the game is full of bugs, wich i never complained, and still played it.
im paying for this game, and i do ghoust skilling, but i get back to the game, cos i cant w8 for a long term skil to finish. dont know how it is exiting to see a 30 days skill training go like this "oh a nother 29 days, .... oh a notehr 28 days"
BTW if there is a pettion site on the forum, to sign for this im signing it
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xOmGx
Gallente Warriors tribe Red Alliance
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Posted - 2008.10.14 11:27:00 -
[1474]
Originally by: Friday Jinx Are you people on drugs? How can you be whining about this change from the company that gives you FREE EXPANSIONS to an MMO?
If CCP feels they need to do this, then let them, you ungrateful babies.
Lineage 2 - Free expansions No Pain - No Gain |
Last Flower
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Posted - 2008.10.14 11:27:00 -
[1475]
short phrase:
"Can anyone cyno for me plz?"
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Keiretsu Destroyer
Amarr Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2008.10.14 11:28:00 -
[1476]
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=896705&page=1
guess you didn't see this coming. the guy is selling 60 day gtc for 1 BIL!!!
Quote: yes i know, i do this becouse CCP news of canceling ghost training acounts without warning, many people now want to buy ETC and there is no ETC¦s enought to evrybody... have you notice the forum full of WTB orders... itß a mater of time until ETC reach 1 billion. so sorry but i¦ll keep my price at one billion
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ceveres
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Posted - 2008.10.14 11:29:00 -
[1477]
Everyone should cancel..not because they changed it but because they lied rite to your /our faces
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Karma
Eve University
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Posted - 2008.10.14 11:30:00 -
[1478]
Originally by: Friday Jinx Are you people on drugs? How can you be whining about this change from the company that gives you FREE EXPANSIONS to an MMO?
If CCP feels they need to do this, then let them, you ungrateful babies.
free expansions? we'll see. everything can change.
as CCP has demonstrated quite adequately today.
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Horny Scientist
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Posted - 2008.10.14 11:30:00 -
[1479]
Running tally:
Account closure threats: 945 Actual accounts that will be closed: 200 Closed account holders who tries WoW and comes back to Eve after a month: 180 Extra accounts opened by Fanfest goers: 500 Remaining subscribers: 50000+
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Kyle Broflovski
Caldari Imperium Galactica
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Posted - 2008.10.14 11:31:00 -
[1480]
Originally by: Friday Jinx Are you people on drugs? How can you be whining about this change from the company that gives you FREE EXPANSIONS to an MMO?
IMHO that is going to change soon "to be more inline with other MMO's".
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Koric Blaine
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Posted - 2008.10.14 11:31:00 -
[1481]
Not enough time (or the will) to read 48 pages of comments, but I hope someone is paid to.
In any case, I don't care if ghost training disappears so long as a training queue is implemented. In the past, ghost training has been cited as one of the reasons for no queue.
Give me a queue, and an API to manage it, and my accounts will be happy.
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Terio Oni
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Posted - 2008.10.14 11:32:00 -
[1482]
tnx CCP...
you just lose 3 accounts...
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Siona Windweaver
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Posted - 2008.10.14 11:33:00 -
[1483]
Originally by: Koric Blaine Not enough time (or the will) to read 48 pages of comments, but I hope someone is paid to.
In any case, I don't care if ghost training disappears so long as a training queue is implemented. In the past, ghost training has been cited as one of the reasons for no queue.
Give me a queue, and an API to manage it, and my accounts will be happy.
I agree.
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Face deBouc
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Posted - 2008.10.14 11:35:00 -
[1484]
Oh No My "funky" ghost alt, Now i must pay like other
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ZaKma
Body Count Inc.
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Posted - 2008.10.14 11:37:00 -
[1485]
Let's see if you listen to your customers CCP. I think most people have made the point pretty damned clear here. Our input used to be valued and appreciated. I think this is no longer the case. Prove me wrong.
✖ Arachnophobia ✖ |
FalconHawk
Amarr Shadow Rebellion
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Posted - 2008.10.14 11:38:00 -
[1486]
Edited by: FalconHawk on 14/10/2008 11:39:03 to be honest i don¦t realy care for ghost training to be shafted, never used it anyway, but i just realy hate how CCP has become a bunch of lying bastards. No prob when u change something for the greater good of the game, when there is just a reason. But this time(and it happens more and more) you simply cancel one of the features that u even quote in your own guide and declare it a "bug" ....
well when will be offline skill training declared a bug? ffs get your facts straight BEFORE you annouce major changes, with this kind of actions you just loose the trust of your long-time customer base.
every 2 months the playerbase asks for more communication until they cry out that loud that major game sites even hear it, then ccp gives out blogs and dev posts for a month and then stop to communicate again ... i so miss the old times with devs chatting at the forum, explaining stuff etc, now there is just a desert, filled with nothing more than a nerf from time to time and shafted featuers.
When i have started to play eve 3-4 years ago i thought it¦s great to play the game, producers that actualy care, now i just login so i can talk to friends and when they leave the game cause of the bullshit you do lately ...well then there is nothing left from the game i have started to play that long time ago.
but seems that noone is listening to that kind of stuff anyway, maybe just one or two trolls
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Mukiri
Minmatar Republic Military School
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Posted - 2008.10.14 11:38:00 -
[1487]
I do not see the reason for all the whining here. CCP is saying if the account is not active it cannot train, big deal. I mean if you turned off the account then what does it matter. CCP currently give more for free to the players than ANY company out there and yet you are complaining becuase you cannot train a character on a dead account?
I think this is a good move for CCP. It means that they keep their revenue stream active when a player wants and account to be viable. It also means that players are not getting for FREE the same thing others get by having to pay.
As for the idea that CCP might move to pay for expansions, THAT would hurt the game a great deal. Right now one of the BIGGEST selling points for CCP to me as a company is the free expansion system. The Ghost training however is a none issue just and excuse for whiners.
Now continue your whining and please pass the cheese.
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Pittsburgh2989
Dark Skullz Empire Intrepid Crossing
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Posted - 2008.10.14 11:39:00 -
[1488]
Yup...I just had started an alt, unless he pays for GTC's by the time power of two runs out...donezo...
Way to suck at life CCP - that was a huge selling point of this game. Like was mentioned earlier, how can you just remove ghost training but not the rest of the s*** people get while inactive (market orders? share payouts?)....EPIC FAIL
--------------------------------------------- -In charge of the weekly "Royal Lottery" -I see fail everywhere, and it's like they don't even know they're failing |
Mjolnirsmith
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Posted - 2008.10.14 11:39:00 -
[1489]
This news is terrible
I have a main, paid account (6 months at a time). In addition, this particular character is an alt, who 'ghost trained' cruisers V but besides that did everything on paid, gtc time. At the time, ghost training was an enticing feature. It made me reorganize the order in which I train skills so that I could set the long skill to train just as the previous gtc expired. Especially with GTC at 60 days now ghost training doesn't come up that much anyways, and was a way of doing an experiment on making a certain kind of character without the massive initial investment (i.e. you could spread it out a little).
When the last power of two offer came about I accepted it to make a third character, with a completely different kind of specialization.
So you can't label me as a non-paying or barely-paying customer. This complaint is coming from someone who already pays CCP about 3x the monthly fee.
NOw recently, just for the hell of it, I rolled a pirate character. I was going to invest at least 2 GTC to see if this interested me, after carefully plotting some dark training to make the investment last as much as possible.
I think the dark training nerf discourages this kind of experimentation. Dark training is a way of dipping your toe in the pool before you dive in. The thing is, a 'dark trained' character is hard to forget about... in the back of one's mind a thought is like "This toon is getting smarter at lasers, on free time as of last sunday! I better be there for him when that skillbook completes". In short you get players who can experiment, who feel ever-so-slightly like they got a nice occasional free perk, yet they eventually come around and add more gtc to those alts. With this nerf, instead of occasional GTC on some alt's in the eve universe as an extra source of revenue to supplement the regular and active player base, you just have revenue from the highly regular subscriptions only.
I suspect this will make ccp LOSE money in the long run.
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Braaage
Ministry of Craft
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Posted - 2008.10.14 11:40:00 -
[1490]
Originally by: ZaKma Let's see if you listen to your customers CCP. I think most people have made the point pretty damned clear here. Our input used to be valued and appreciated. I think this is no longer the case. Prove me wrong.
Unfortunately I think this is one of those decisions that they wont listen to us on. All this negative err feedback is caused by the way it was announced, calling something a bug and then have it documented in their own documents as a feature is just .... shoot foot time.
I can imagine all CCP bigwigs sat in a room thinking HTF are we gonna get out of this one --
POSs, Outposts, Exploration, Mining, Invention, Boosters, EA EVE Database, Character Generator & more |
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dorannl
Gallente Mystery Inc
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Posted - 2008.10.14 11:43:00 -
[1491]
I really dont onderstand this move.
Ghost training is used mostly for alts and people who dont have time or money to play eve. Less people will have alts now. And people have less reason to come back to the game.
Isnt it just better to make a 3 month timecard or something.
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Todoshi
Caldari Caldari Logistics and Supplies
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Posted - 2008.10.14 11:43:00 -
[1492]
you'd think perhaps with 2913 posts (or 2914 with this one) spread accross 2 threads and a total of 98 pages so far, in less than a full day...that maybe they'd ****ed alot of people of and perhaps reconsider or atleast give people a little more time before implementing it.
of course ccp don't give a rats ass about the player base thats clear to see now....
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Siigari Kitawa
Gallente The Aduro Protocol
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Posted - 2008.10.14 11:44:00 -
[1493]
Here is my problem with this whole thing.
Fundamentally speaking, every company wants money. That's a "duh". Now CCP, look at it this way (blunt for both sides):
People set long skills because they have an account that they want to train on for a period of time without paying. Whether it be the last day they set a 60 day skill or what have you, they're putting down a way of getting something for essentially nothing.
But at what cost? They can have their character train, but they cannot manipulate or use their character ingame in any way. So essentially, even though they get skillpoints, they do not get isk or any way to further themselves in the game other than skilltraining.
SO
Let's look at CCP's side of this: Apparently they think that they can get the money for the accounts RIGHT NOW. Well, you run into this wall.
Not everyone can simultaneously afford how many accounts they have. Some people have up to 10 accounts I am willing to bet, and I am also willing to bet they pay with their credit card instead of GTCs. So, you have a person shelling out over $150 a month just to play a game.
BUT
They're not always going to keep all those accounts active at once, perhaps. But they will reactivate them as they need them.
CCP, the problem you have created may come back to bite you in the butt. Simply speaking, not realizing that you are receiving continued revenue for people who set their characters to afk train while disabled means that THEY WANT TO COME BACK. They'll pay you for the account again.
Other than CCP wanting more money, I see no other reason for this. The only issue about CCP wanting more money is this will hurt them in the interim.
I'm sure we are going to see a lower subscription count for a month or two, then they will surge back up to just below normal rates. But I honestly can't see an increase in revenue coming from this change.
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Naruto Hunter
Darwin With Attitude Systematic-Chaos
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Posted - 2008.10.14 11:44:00 -
[1494]
Originally by: Mjolnirsmith
t this will make ccp LOSE money in the long run.
Apparently CCP isnt interested in the long run. Maybe its time just to keep milking the cash cow until it dies, the game has been around for 5 years, it is bound to start declining and with most of CCP's efforts directed into their new MMO, they are probably trying to get their hands on as much as they can
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Abrazzar
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Posted - 2008.10.14 11:45:00 -
[1495]
Heh.
Considering that most of the people complaining have more than one account the amount of people raging is probably less than 1/5th of the characters posting here.
Speak about a vocal minority.
-------- Ideas for: Mining
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SFX Bladerunner
Naval Protection Corp
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Posted - 2008.10.14 11:45:00 -
[1496]
I have read the first 5 pages and last 5 pages of this thread.
Though I have to admit I personally did use ghost training to train up for minmatar battleship 5 while I was away on summer vacation, I do not feel strongly against CCP removing this feature from the game. Ofcourse I agree with most of you guys for stating that CCP is being hypocrit about calling it a bug when it has been listed in the FEATURES page for years now. CCP what's up with that man?
Personally though, I have one thing to say to all the people flaming in this thread about how they are going to quit eve blahdieblah: Arguing over the internet is like competing in the special olympics: Even if you win, you are still ******ed.
That being said, I welcome all you people with 2+ accounts to get the hell out of my game ^^ Moar isk for me, really. I have ALWAYS just had ONE account, and even only used ONE character on said account.
From a marketing/business point of view.. it is true that CCP seems to be 'reshaping' EVE Online as a business with the GTC thing and ofcourse now this. (yes as someone mentioned, we could have and DID see this coming).
Personally I don't use GTC's, I pay for eve by bank transfer (which is cheaper than GTCs for cash/time btw) so the GTC change didn't really affect me at all. (I do from time to time buy gtcs and sell em for isk to make my wallet go plop though).
Anyway all in all, I would have to say, as a lot of people have said before me...
To all the quitters,
CAN I HAS YOUR STUFF AND ISKZ PLZ? kthxbai.
YOU shall NOT be missed. now go play WoW or w/e.
To CCP and the DEVs, I would like to point out not to take too much head to this thread, as is with all things, the people that reply to threads like these are people with personal interrest in it and don't like it. It is always the whiners and people that disagree that comment on patches and fixed and that sort of things. And since these players are the ones CCP is actually trying to weed out, who cares what they say. The main consensus reached between posters on this thread does not in any way represent the EVE Community as a whole, and ghost training is definatelly not one of the 'biggest sellers' for EVE Online as much people in here claim it is. I personally started playing eve oblivious to this feature/bug and only found out about it after almost a year of playtime. And I do believe there are much more people out there like me.
Granted this 'fix' does make EVE Online a little bit less attractive to some people, that's fair enough. It will always still beat the crap out of other MMO's like WoW that have way bigger fundamental issues. (in wow's case for instance, the immaturity of the playerbase).
my 2 cents... anyway. __________________________________________________
History is much like an endless waltz, the three beats of war, peace and revolution continue on forever.. |
Lord Fitz
Project Amargosa
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Posted - 2008.10.14 11:45:00 -
[1497]
Unfortunately I can only see this having the opposite effect and costing CCP money. I lost count of how many people I know who reactivated because they had a skill finish that allowed them to do something they couldn't do before they stopped playing. Without this incentive I see CCP denied years worth of subscriptions to save a month. Why come back and start playing if all you can do upon your return is exactly what you could do before ?
And skills, believe it or not, don't effect other players in the slightest. If you're talking about inactive accounts producing things, start talking about passive RP, given they actually effect the economy. I think the nerf bat landed on the wrong thing here.
I wonder how many of the people that stopped their accounts recently were because of the increased GTC prices or their currency dropping ? I don't imagine any stopping of their skills will cause them to reactivate, but it will more than likely cause them to not ever think about reactivating again.
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Porto Exul
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Posted - 2008.10.14 11:46:00 -
[1498]
Next step will be SP shop: 1 mil SP = 100USD, even for an unsubscribed char. Why not ?
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Face deBouc
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Posted - 2008.10.14 11:46:00 -
[1499]
"Ohhh!!! What!! I cant train an alt without pay?"
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Skogen Gump
Jericho Fraction
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Posted - 2008.10.14 11:47:00 -
[1500]
I wonder, would CCP be willing to come to a compromise.
If one account is being actively subscribed, would training be allowed to continue on the 'ghost' accounts held by that same subscriber ?
I bet this would surely this would meet the situation of the players who use Ghost training, especially in light of the recent credit crunch; and it would ensure that CCP get the one thing they need, money!
The only people negatively effected would be those who dont play want to play at all for a month or so at a time, but still expect their toons to be levelled as if they did. Sorry if this sounds harsh, but that doesn't really bother me!
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