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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 6 post(s) |
Maria Dalin
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Posted - 2008.10.14 15:26:00 -
[1951]
Originally by: WeightedCompanionCube How many people here are actually going to terminate their character in protest rather then just cancel, an action that is easily reversible ?
I think we will rather see more "juicy" characters on illegal $ 4 char portals
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Adam Slysphere
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Posted - 2008.10.14 15:27:00 -
[1952]
Originally by: Midas Man
Fair enough but if you had a deal that when you signed were told You only pay line rental when you make a call.
Then 3 months later you get a memo say the we will now charge line rental for everyday even if you dont make a call the offer we give you was a typo. im sure youd be a bit ****ed off. now if the contract you signed says we have the right do as we please when we please. you have no case to argue.
Is this fair business practise no. And nor is what CCP are doing
An the 2000+ post is just proving to them how much they are hurting the player base who will reduce account or emoquit.
So all in all its a Lose/Lose for CCP
The difference being, you didn't sign a contract with CCP stating that you can ghost train characters for the life of the game. You sign a contact saying they're God and they can do anything they want with EVE at any time every time you log into EVE. Like the phone company, if they changed their service plan I would either continue paying or I would find a different service provider. Which is what some people are doing and I can't begrudge them for that. I respect their opinions and hope to see them back someday.
Again, I go back to the statement that you're character is progressing without any money or work from you at all. In most games that's considered an exploit... I can't really blame CCP for wanting to change the way the game works to limit this. After all, it says on the box that game play experience may change.
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Triksterism
Gallente Frozen Corpse Inspection Services United Federation of Capsuleers
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Posted - 2008.10.14 15:27:00 -
[1953]
Originally by: CowsCANBark
Originally by: WeightedCompanionCube How many people here are actually going to terminate their character in protest rather then just cancel, an action that is easily reversible ?
Seeing as how they took down account management, zero.
He means deleting your character as opposed to canceling your account.
You are able to delete your character after logging into the game itself. -
Ghost Train & Snowflake |
IR Scoutar
Caldari State War Academy
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Posted - 2008.10.14 15:27:00 -
[1954]
Edited by: IR Scoutar on 14/10/2008 15:28:21
Originally by: Annaphera
Oh, and yet again...the flippin' game manual is NOT a promotion!
however that manual shouldnt lie to you it should clearly state the use of its product or wouldnt you complain if your toaster manual told you that it is safe to submerge it in water and is capable of microwaving a roast in under 30 seconds ?
of course in this case its more of the toaster was indeed capable of working under water but that now has decleard a bug after this has become comon practise for more than 5 years
in this event it may be regarded as a fundamental game mechanics change (skill gain is a game mechanic in any game and eve's skilltaining is unique!) and being blatantly lied to that this thing that was once a feature is now a bug if not exploit doesnt sit well with allot of people
i think THAT more than anything is what gets people angry (its my reason anyways)
edit : curse my crappy keyboard if you find missing letters ... keep them
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Catherine Frasier
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Posted - 2008.10.14 15:27:00 -
[1955]
Originally by: Marius Duvall The issue isn't that the players guide isn't a promotion (which is arguable, really) but that a supposed "bug" was listed as an intended effect therein.
No, it never was listed as an intended effect, ever, anywhere. The guide merely described the way things were. All the emorage in the world can't change documentation into proof of intent.
Of course, since this has been pointed out about seven thousand times and ignored about seven thousand times, I don't expect pointing it out again will have any effect on you "But it was in the guide!!!!11one!!" folks.
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Raquel Trotter
Trotters Independent Trading
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Posted - 2008.10.14 15:28:00 -
[1956]
Originally by: WeightedCompanionCube How many people here are actually going to terminate their character in protest rather then just cancel, an action that is easily reversible ?
Not many, but I for one am going to stop my alts subscriptions, transfer them to my main or just sell them and only pay for 1 account from now on. I would assume that many, many others will do the same.
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CowsCANBark
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Posted - 2008.10.14 15:28:00 -
[1957]
Please do not post other peoples personal information. Navigator
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Reptzo
Channel 4 News Team
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Posted - 2008.10.14 15:29:00 -
[1958]
Originally by: WeightedCompanionCube How many people here are actually going to terminate their character in protest rather then just cancel, an action that is easily reversible ?
None, and in all reality, if every post here represents the amount of quitting people, (multiple posts representing alts), than only 1200-1300 people will actually be quitting. Now factoring in all the people that will not resub and such that don't post, means maybe 5-10 k people, tops. So, that is 2-3 % of the total current sub numbers? I don't think it will matter much in the grand scheme.
CCP has made their decision and is obviously going to stick with it.
And on a side note, I trained carrier 5 while playing the game, along with jump cal 5, and many other 1-2 month skills. Don't see what the problem is in making you play the game, or at least pay.
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Borg Zorg
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Posted - 2008.10.14 15:29:00 -
[1959]
My main is definitly out of this game. Im not paying for it any more.Subscription canceld. And this char was a power of too project just got it 4 days ago.And i feel been cheatead. Will cansell this subscription whan thay bring back my acount servicis. What a bunch of mo..ns. OMFG
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Chris Stormrider
Gallente IDEON ANDRON
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Posted - 2008.10.14 15:30:00 -
[1960]
Originally by: Ar'tee
Originally by: CCP Fallout
A long overdue and much needed change will be put in place with the Wednesday, 15 October 2008 patch. Ghost Training, the continuous skill gain on accounts in an inactive or expired state - will no longer function after Wednesday, 15 October 2008. This practice upsets the balance of our bank accounts, which frankly we can do without given the financial situation our country is currently in, and capsuleers who actively put their money into not logging into our game because training works just as well when you're logged off will no longer be unfairly affected by those few who cost us precious dollars by doing basically the exact same thing except without paying us money for it.
Fixed that statement for you.
exactly my point. if training a skill without playing is an unfair advantage we might as well get xp for doing genocide on goblins or bearded keltirs. if training a skill without paying is the problem it doesn't make much sense to me. If CCP decides to give eve for free to some people or to everyone will I protest because it's not financially sound?
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BIind
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Posted - 2008.10.14 15:30:00 -
[1961]
Edited by: BIind on 14/10/2008 15:32:11
Originally by: Wussie With training stopping when the account goes inactive there's basically no drawback left for CCP withholding them from introducing the training queue.
You losing 2 weeks worth of SP a year by getting stuck in traffic/sleeping/having a life = ~5% less database lag apparently.
People have been asking for a skill queue since day 1, just forget about it already.
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Seth Ruin
Minmatar Ominous Corp Ethereal Dawn
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Posted - 2008.10.14 15:30:00 -
[1962]
Originally by: Catherine Frasier
Originally by: Marius Duvall The issue isn't that the players guide isn't a promotion (which is arguable, really) but that a supposed "bug" was listed as an intended effect therein.
No, it never was listed as an intended effect, ever, anywhere. The guide merely described the way things were. All the emorage in the world can't change documentation into proof of intent.
Of course, since this has been pointed out about seven thousand times and ignored about seven thousand times, I don't expect pointing it out again will have any effect on you "But it was in the guide!!!!11one!!" folks.
And you still failed to show anything in response to my challenge many pages back, so I'll post it again:
Find me one other "bug" or "unintended feature" in the player's manual.
Or, better yet, so we're on the same level: What would you consider a list of "intended effects?" The features page?
-- (CCP Inconsistency)
Why cover it up? We KNOW it's all just about money |
Igor Botanik
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Posted - 2008.10.14 15:33:00 -
[1963]
"We truly hope that the community will understand our actions and continue to...." No, they are not. You sucks with that, CCP.
cu when you fix tommorows bug.
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Total Disaster
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Posted - 2008.10.14 15:33:00 -
[1964]
Originally by: BIind
Originally by: Wussie With training stopping when the account goes inactive there's basically no drawback left for CCP withholding them from introducing the training queue.
You losing 2 weeks worth of SP a year by getting stuck in traffic/sleping/having a life = $$$
People have been asking for a skill queue since day 1, just forget about it already.
I'm pretty sure that the day I die, all I can think about is how my char had 5mil SP less than it would have with a skillqueue.
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WeightedCompanionCube
Aperture Science Enrichment Center
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Posted - 2008.10.14 15:33:00 -
[1965]
Originally by: Seth Ruin
Ghost training can be thought of as still being able to keep your handset. You can still change your wallpapers, listen to MP3s on it, use it as a phone... you just can't make calls or do anything that depends on having a network. I don't know of any cell phone company that repossesses the cell phone after a contract is expired.
Nor does CCP come by to remove the EVE client from your PC. It's still there, you can start it up but it just does not do anything. Like mobile phones 10 years ago. |
Adam Slysphere
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Posted - 2008.10.14 15:33:00 -
[1966]
Originally by: Reptzo
Originally by: WeightedCompanionCube How many people here are actually going to terminate their character in protest rather then just cancel, an action that is easily reversible ?
None, and in all reality, if every post here represents the amount of quitting people, (multiple posts representing alts), than only 1200-1300 people will actually be quitting. Now factoring in all the people that will not resub and such that don't post, means maybe 5-10 k people, tops. So, that is 2-3 % of the total current sub numbers? I don't think it will matter much in the grand scheme.
CCP has made their decision and is obviously going to stick with it.
And on a side note, I trained carrier 5 while playing the game, along with jump cal 5, and many other 1-2 month skills. Don't see what the problem is in making you play the game, or at least pay.
The forums definitely represent the vocal minority. There will be a few people that cancel their accounts. there will be some that cancel and end up coming back after a few months. There will be some that cancel and never come back. It happens in every game every time there's a change made to better the game, but the players don't like it.
CCP won't really feel much of an impact and the people that rage quit will feel better about themselves for awhile.
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Bobith
Gallente Omega Bunnys
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Posted - 2008.10.14 15:34:00 -
[1967]
As with any other grossly abused bugs, we should ban all offenders in the last 5 years.
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Una D
Ex Coelis The Bantam Menace
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Posted - 2008.10.14 15:34:00 -
[1968]
Wow. Nice way to prevent canceling of subscriptions. I guess I could go to my CC company and tell them CCP charged me without my permission but that would be going to far (for now as I hop that they will take their head out of their ass and actually reconsider this crap).
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Marius Duvall
Amarr Merch Industrial GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.10.14 15:34:00 -
[1969]
Originally by: Catherine Frasier
Originally by: Marius Duvall The issue isn't that the players guide isn't a promotion (which is arguable, really) but that a supposed "bug" was listed as an intended effect therein.
No, it never was listed as an intended effect, ever, anywhere. The guide merely described the way things were. All the emorage in the world can't change documentation into proof of intent.
Of course, since this has been pointed out about seven thousand times and ignored about seven thousand times, I don't expect pointing it out again will have any effect on you "But it was in the guide!!!!11one!!" folks.
What? If something is listed in the user manual saying "Hey, you can do this," it's an intended effect. ---
Originally by: "Reticenti" Oh, one note to Scius, you have made Goons and BoB agree on something. Good job.
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Johncrab
Minmatar Typo Corp
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Posted - 2008.10.14 15:35:00 -
[1970]
Funny to hear people saying this is a good thing. I've been playing for 3 and a half years, never stoped paying, never ghost trained (have bs 5, recon 5, cloaking 5, awu 5,...) and still think this is ccp's worst mistake. When I get really tired and want to take a break, leaving a long skill training will be an incentive for me to return. I guess no more.
On top of that, the way they treated us... like we were small children that can be lied to and manipulated... oh well. Never thought I would see the day tbh.
I will keep playing this game, love it too much to quit and have amazing friends in game. But I tell you this: CCP -> Kiss my ass FanFest -> What for? EveMag -> Screw it Spaceship Models -> You must be joking... Everything else you do out of game -> **** you |
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Sir Atkinson
Mercenary Forces
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Posted - 2008.10.14 15:35:00 -
[1971]
I CBA to read thru more than the first 5 pages and I found no reply from CCP here. C'mon CCP get your fingers out. All of them. This is by far the most unpopular "fix" EVER!!!!
Just take it back and say sorry for the inconvienience.
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BIind
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Posted - 2008.10.14 15:35:00 -
[1972]
Originally by: Total Disaster I'm pretty sure that the day I die, all I can think about is how my char had 5mil SP less than it would have with a skillqueue.
Yes, sometimes I get the feeling I shouldn't have bothered with learning skills at all, a 6hr skill which takes 8 hrs because I can't be bothered to wake up for it etc.
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Ayato kun
Edo Ka
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Posted - 2008.10.14 15:36:00 -
[1973]
Originally by: chotaire Fictionary Dev Blog Post from ccp whoever:
Dear players, due to recent financing issues related to national problems we had to decide to disable ghost training for a limited amount of time. Due to our local banks unable to give us the necessary loans to expand our network and hire more programmers to implement the features you people desire, we saw no other chance doing so.
But please be asured this is only a temporary change, as we will rethink our priority list and reward everyone of you with a great new feature in return to be implemented before christmas:
Skill queueing goes in effect with the next major patch in the second week of December, at the same time ghost training will be back available to everyone. However skill queueing will only work if you have an active subscription.
We sincelery hope you understand this decision as we are forced to refinance immediate investments necessary to implement new features that CSM has requested to see available soon, as much as improving our network, hardware and database concept to cope with lag on fleet battles.
Furthermore, we will bring back 30 day time codes sometime next year. We hope this is a good compromise for all of us and we are looking forward to your feedback to discuss this matter before it goes into effect sometime soon.
Best Regards CCP whoever
-3 accounts until this. ________
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Lorgoth
Children of Gjallarhorn
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Posted - 2008.10.14 15:37:00 -
[1974]
"unintended bug" ? yeah, right. and what about contracts or market orders which can last months? will they be put on hold too?
no, guys, it's not a bug. it's called 'programming'.
i never ghost trained, simply cause i could afford ETCs for isk relatively cheap. now it has changed and i'll be damned to pay over 350-400M isk / 2 months of this bugged to hell game.
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Harudan
Minmatar Tribal Liberation Force
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Posted - 2008.10.14 15:37:00 -
[1975]
This is, as someone previously mentioned, disingenuous. CCP's reputation relies on it's attention to the customer's experience and this can be seen as nothing other than an attempt to prevent people from taking a break. Well, CCP, people will take the breaks - they just might not have a reason to come back any more.
If you players want to continue with this game - apply to your CSM rep and have them put it to CCP as a matter of importance.
Why the venom? I was about to lapse on the 20th and set Cruiser V training. As it is, now I am just going to lapse, with no reason to return to the game.
No - you can't have my stuff, I'm going to leave it scattered throughout as many stations as I can in revenge for having first my mining cans "Tidied" then my training nerfed.
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KusariNinja
Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2008.10.14 15:37:00 -
[1976]
don't you all see? It DOES have everything to do with Balance!!! Their Bank Balance! ;)
Kung-Fu movies are like **** films!, First there is one on one, then two on one, then a group scene....... |
Kalmanaka
Caldari The Graduates Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2008.10.14 15:38:00 -
[1977]
When you walk into a store and they offer you a free piece of candy from a bowl, it's okay to take one. If you take half the bowl then you better expect them to take it away. If you cry about it then you're just beyond pathetic.
I personally hope every single person that's crying over a lost freebie that got abused actually does leave. Go play WoW where you belong. Less lag for me. Estimate != Reality What you want != What you get You whine != Someone cares Learn to deal with it. -Abrazzar |
Tag Ibby
Minmatar Counter-Addiction Industries
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Posted - 2008.10.14 15:38:00 -
[1978]
Serious Question CCP.
Did you talk to a lawyer before doing this?
As a Law student myself, I decided to ask some professors and lawyers who I work for about the obligations you may be responsible for.
You are a provider of a good or service ( though some would say your service is laughable at best) and subject to the UCC (Uniform Comercial Code) in the United States as you do significant business here.
You have a boiler plate terms of service agreement that has no way to be shown to have actually been read and thus highly unlikely to be upheld under court scrutiney ( there are numerous cases on record for this, mostly with computer programs, cell phones and insurance companies being sued.)
Perhaps most significantly you ran a promotion encouraging the purchase of second accounts. I dont have the numbers as to how many people took advantage of this offer, but those who did so , did so based on the current rules and features of your player guide. Many of those who took advantage of your offer did so with the knowledge that it was perfectly legal and in fact a feature of your palyer guide that they could ghost train one of the accounts when the time came.
and now you have modified the product you previously sold. Seems very much like a bad faith act.
I think that those who did the power of two offer should seek to be refunded and under the UCC, CCP would have to comply.
for the rest of us who didnt take advantage of the POT option, CCP should consider that this change should be made for each person at the time of the expiration of their account. otherwise we are paying for a service that was not agreed to, and again the boiler plate Terms of Service Agreement you have to click "I agree" on before you play is all CCP has to stand on to defend itself from breach of contract. and as ive stated before, in a case where we payed for the game before the terms of service are signed off on. The terms of service are shaky at best when viewed in court.
anyway, I think if CCP is being honest and this is truly a server load issue, they should have thought their options through a bit better
and for those that dont understeld jurisdictional law. CCP can be hled responsible in US even though they are an Icelandic country because the goods and service they provide make contact with so many american jurisdictions.
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Lord Fitz
Project Amargosa
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Posted - 2008.10.14 15:38:00 -
[1979]
Originally by: Adam Reed
Originally by: Moon Kitten
Originally by: Adam Reed What utter nonsense, how can people be so blinkered as to think that there's any commercial benefit in CCP allowing people to train skills like this? They are a company trying to make a profit, and as much as I'm in favour of smashing capitalism if you're going to have it you have to accept that companies will do what they can to maximse profits.
Frankly I didn't know that this 'ghost training' existed and was surprised to hear that it did, and has lasted so long. To the people moaning about this change, shut up and pay like the rest of us, or sod off and play Guild Wars. Fair play to CCP I say.
Stop thinking about the quarterly financial report and start thinking more long term. Perhaps in terms of years.
What? They are a company, a profit-making company. Why should they provide a service to people who aren't paying them? Justify that in any other industry and I'll pay attention.
If your point is that allowing it will help them somewhere down the line, you've lost me, I don't see how it would. The board of CCP will have considered that when they made the decision and wouldn't have done it if it's likely to impact future profits.
The point is that this will make them profit this month. This will lose them profit next month, and the month after, and in pretty short order lose them money over all. They actually don't have to provide any service to people with inactive accounts training that they don't provide to people with inactive accounts already (that is maintain a database record at the cost of a fraction of a cent).
People who stop paying, can not login. They can't change skills. They don't get any of the service. All that happens is that when they PAY to resubscribe, the last thing they were training, has finished. That's it.
It requires them to pay. Money. For This. Thing. That costs CCP nothing.
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Triksterism
Gallente Frozen Corpse Inspection Services United Federation of Capsuleers
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Posted - 2008.10.14 15:38:00 -
[1980]
Originally by: Kalmanaka When you walk into a store and they offer you a free piece of candy from a bowl, it's okay to take one. If you take half the bowl then you better expect them to take it away. If you cry about it then you're just beyond pathetic.
I personally hope every single person that's crying over a lost freebie that got abused actually does leave. Go play WoW where you belong. Less lag for me.
It's actually less lag when they ghost train too. -
Ghost Train & Snowflake |
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