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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 6 post(s) |
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CCP Wrangler
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Posted - 2008.10.13 23:17:00 -
[1]
As the recent news stated, we will disable the ability to train skills on a suspended account. Since this has caused a lot of debate we've decided to explain why we are making this change in a new Dev Blog by t0rfifrans: Why ghost training was disabled.
Wrangler Community Manager CCP Hf, EVE Online Email
Reducing lag in EVE: The Jita Conundrum - StacklessIO or: How We Reduced Lag - Such Stuff As Dreams Are Made On - EVE64 - My node was equipped with the following... |
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Yakumo Smith
Gallente When Darkness Falls
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Posted - 2008.10.13 23:20:00 -
[2]
pending
I suppose this must be my sig. I'll do something cool with it eventually. |
Chaos Incarnate
Faceless Logistics
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Posted - 2008.10.13 23:21:00 -
[3]
Drama inc __________
Cannot read from face Abort, Retry, Fail? |
Bonefish O'Hallahan
GoonFleet
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Posted - 2008.10.13 23:21:00 -
[4]
Pure, disingenuous bullcrap. If this was a bug you intended to fix, there's no earthly reason you waited this long. Shove it.
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Johnny Gurkha
Death Cult Covenant
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Posted - 2008.10.13 23:21:00 -
[5]
reserved for when i give a shit. ccp, you fail
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Ivor Gunn
No One Expects The Spanish Inquisition
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Posted - 2008.10.13 23:21:00 -
[6]
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SkwisgaarSkwigelf
C.R.M Productions
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Posted - 2008.10.13 23:22:00 -
[7]
/facepalm
there goes one of my accounts, regardless of your "reasons"
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Dakisha
D00M. Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2008.10.13 23:22:00 -
[8]
Would love to see a copy of the 'active subscriptions' chart right now..
You would have thought 50 pages in the first few hours was a big enough hint, but no - classic CCP PR at work here - just keep on rolling, oblivious to all..
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Avon
Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.10.13 23:22:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Avon on 13/10/2008 23:22:50 I don't mind this change at all as my accounts have always been active, but...
..you'd better be real quick cleaning out the forums of historical CCP posts about this "feature" as it was, before you try to make out it is now a "bug".
Eve-Online: The Text Adventure |
Makkiel
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Posted - 2008.10.13 23:23:00 -
[10]
As i said in the other thread:
This probably is the worst thing you could do...
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Aganola
Amarr Hungarian Riflemen Regiment
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Posted - 2008.10.13 23:23:00 -
[11]
meh
still fail ----------------------------------------------- "I do not belive in reicarnation... I didn't believed in it in my previous lives either..."
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Ivor Gunn
No One Expects The Spanish Inquisition
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Posted - 2008.10.13 23:23:00 -
[12]
Quote: It should be noted that were not changing offline skill training
Proof reading mother****ers, do you use it?
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Sanadis
Gallente Sphere Industries Combined Planetary Union
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Posted - 2008.10.13 23:23:00 -
[13]
I say good reddens to ghost training.
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Peter VonThal
Raygun Technologies
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Posted - 2008.10.13 23:23:00 -
[14]
So all this time until now this "bug" was used as a positive feature and a selling point of EVE.
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Seth Ruin
Minmatar Ominous Corp Ethereal Dawn
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Posted - 2008.10.13 23:23:00 -
[15]
Sudden surge of this? Seriously, CCP. Show us numbers. I'd like to see your proof: Hell, how can you prove it has been happening?
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BlackDeej
Aquila Astralis
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Posted - 2008.10.13 23:23:00 -
[16]
reserved
Quote: Light is faster than sound, this is why some people appear bright until they speak.
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Kazuma Saruwatari
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.10.13 23:23:00 -
[17]
Its final then.
Either give us easier skill-training methods (like the already-demanded-for skill queue, even 1 skill deep would suffice) or expect the massive drop of customer satisfaction and the effect of lost subscriptions.
I myself will shout my dissatisfaction by not renewing my only account. Thank you for the time CCP, but your decision basically killed off one of the few great things about EVE to me, personally. -
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Ivor Gunn
No One Expects The Spanish Inquisition
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Posted - 2008.10.13 23:24:00 -
[18]
Quote: Now a single customer that doesn't log into the servers may not weigh heavily on our database infrastructure, just as a single snowflake isn't that heavy, hardly a measurable quantity. But it's hard not to notice an avalanche if it hits you. And that's what was starting to happen in our database.
Nanos break the physics engine amirite?
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Avon
Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.10.13 23:24:00 -
[19]
Edited by: Avon on 13/10/2008 23:24:21
Eve-Online: The Text Adventure |
wide
55378008
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Posted - 2008.10.13 23:24:00 -
[20]
Nicely timed with Iceland's wider woes.
I actually thought this feature actually was a smart (and cheap) way of buying goodwill from CCP's customers. However I guess cash is king these days. |
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BoroDracula
4 wing Daisho Syndicate
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Posted - 2008.10.13 23:24:00 -
[21]
So if this was reversed, every player paid there GTC and was online using them, no accounts offline ghost learning. Wouldnt this put more strain on the server again
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Ivor Gunn
No One Expects The Spanish Inquisition
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Posted - 2008.10.13 23:24:00 -
[22]
Quote: # CCP noticed a surge in the trend and decided to fix the leak
That would be because you removed 30 day game time codes you moronic ****s.
Seriously. fire your ****ing marketing and accounts departments.
If you're under the impression this will do you anything but harm they're smoking all sorts of crack. And not the good crak either.
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Malcanis
RuffRyders Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2008.10.13 23:24:00 -
[23]
OK that's a lot more honest, at least. Foolish, but plausible.
So why the terribly insulting rubbish (the word I really want to use just comes out as asterisks) about "game balance" in the initial announcement?
Did it ever occur to you that maybe - just maybe - a lot of people are kind of insecure in their financial position at the moment, and they're cutting back on unnecesarry expenses right now?
Did it occur to you that it might be a good idea to give them an incentive to return?
Did it occur to you that increasing the perceived cost of an alt - with 2 days notice - just after you finished a promotion to get people to reate alt accounts might be seen as just a teeny tiny bit like, you know, a good old fashioned bait-and-switch?
Anyway, you're losing two intermittent subs from me. Get one of those accounts from Lehman brothers - he'll tell you how to turn that into a net gain, I'm sure.
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Iridius Fervus
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Posted - 2008.10.13 23:25:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Peter VonThal So all this time until now this "bug" was used as a positive feature and a selling point of EVE.
pwnt
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Seth Ruin
Minmatar Ominous Corp Ethereal Dawn
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Posted - 2008.10.13 23:25:00 -
[25]
Not to mention... What about the "unfair" advantage we older players got? How are you going to balance that out for new players?
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LordSwift
INTERSTELLAR ENTERPRISE Final Retribution Alliance
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Posted - 2008.10.13 23:26:00 -
[26]
Good riddence to all of you that are closing your accounts for good. More isk for me to make. Serves you right for having 3+ accounts. I enjoy my one character who can multitask and have a good time. For one monthly fee.
on a serious note, Yes CCP should of clamped down on this years ago. But everyone knows what CCP's Soon is like. Please transfer ur isk and stuff to me please. I will make good use of it
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Phyridean
Lionsgate Ionic Dispersion Abyss Alliance
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Posted - 2008.10.13 23:26:00 -
[27]
You don't suppose the recent surge you saw in this was people not having the extra cash for a game subscription hoping to come back in after the worldwide financial difficulties?
Doing this won't gain those players back, it will lose them. Irrevocably.
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Laice
Caldari Judicial Blade Novus Aevum
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Posted - 2008.10.13 23:26:00 -
[28]
was the post locked previously?
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Charly Quickfire
Warped Mining
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Posted - 2008.10.13 23:26:00 -
[29]
Did you just lock a 50 pages thread of customer feedback? Nice job.
I gonna repeat myself, only time will tell if this is financially good or bad for EVE/CCP. Personally, I will spend less money for EVE.
/sarcasm on 3 chars per account is deeply wrong as well. Allowing only one char per account should tripple CCP's revenue.
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Malcanis
RuffRyders Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2008.10.13 23:26:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Avon Edited by: Avon on 13/10/2008 23:22:50 I don't mind this change at all as my accounts have always been active, but...
..you'd better be real quick cleaning out the forums of historical CCP posts about this "feature" as it was, before you try to make out it is now a "bug".
good luck with that - unless they have a mod account at chribba's site too...
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Tappits
Priory Of The Lemon Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2008.10.13 23:26:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Seth Ruin Not to mention... What about the "unfair" advantage we older players got? How are you going to balance that out for new players?
from now on your SP go down? is that ok with you? sounds ok to me ---------------------------------------------- Pro BOB????? I fail At forums |
Tradimar
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Posted - 2008.10.13 23:26:00 -
[32]
All those people 'abusing' the system to train skills, they're going to resubscribe did you realise that? Or at least they were...
Business 101 - repeat customers are the best customers
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Carsidava
Ars ex Discordia GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.10.13 23:27:00 -
[33]
Nope, sorry. This doesn't wash.
If you disable skill training for inactive accounts, why aren't you also disabling market orders from inactive accounts? Why aren't you also disabling RP accumulation from inactive accounts? Why aren't you disabling dividend payouts to inactive accounts?
Why are only skill points being hit?
Sorry CCP, this is an entirely unsatisfactory answer. |
Materia Hunter
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Posted - 2008.10.13 23:27:00 -
[34]
Quote: Ghost Training was an unintended feature where unpaid accounts of EVE Online were able to continue training skills. While this allowed players to run multiple characters on a shoestring budget, in all effect, this was a bug.
A bug that took you 5 years to fix?
Quote: Now a single customer that doesn't log into the servers may not weigh heavily on our database infrastructure, just as a single snowflake isn't that heavy, hardly a measurable quantity. But it's hard not to notice an avalanche if it hits you. And that's what was starting to happen in our database.
If your database is having issues managing something as basic as skill training, you have serious internal issues that need to be addressed. If it really is a database problem - fix the database.
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Tyrrax Thorrk
Amarr Developmental Neogenics Amalgamated
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Posted - 2008.10.13 23:27:00 -
[35]
So uh how exactly is this going to work, will skills stop where they are on wednesday on inactive accounts or get reset back to what they were when account ran out ?
You guys do realize you're going to lose a few thousand accounts solely because of this right ?
If you want more money which is the only message I can see in the devblog you're going about it the wrong way.
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dropouthighschoolteacher
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Posted - 2008.10.13 23:27:00 -
[36]
Hi.
Unsubbed all my accounts.
I truly hope that CCP will understand my actions.
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Bloody Rabbit
Jita Miners
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Posted - 2008.10.13 23:28:00 -
[37]
Thank you for stopping the army of alts who ran 5-8 accounts by dark training them in rotation.
As I said before, I pay for 3 accounts 100% of the time, even when I'm called away for a month or more. I don't mind as I set a long skill and when I come back I have gained more skill points. Same when I burn out, I take a few months off but never do I stop paying. The way I see it is I have the right to play this way as I pay for it, but others have gotten away with robbing CCP and the player base by dark training.
Now with this fixed, can CCP look in to setting up a queue for skills?
Originally by: Shadarle I notice a lot of people who are very bad at playing the market tend to want CCP to step in and remove the competition from the market so they don't continue coming in last place.[/qu |
Malcanis
RuffRyders Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2008.10.13 23:28:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Phyridean You don't suppose the recent surge you saw in this was people not having the extra cash for a game subscription hoping to come back in after the worldwide financial difficulties?
Doing this won't gain those players back, it will lose them. Irrevocably.
oooh, wait till next month's blog.
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Myxx
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.10.13 23:28:00 -
[39]
Edited by: Myxx on 13/10/2008 23:28:21 /paranoia on I haven't seen this big of a fallout for an online game since the NGE SOE pulled on people.
/paranoia off /tinfoilhat /cowers and awaits the possible outcome. ----
Originally by: Tishlin Veredici CONCORD is like the UN. Their entire job is to do nothing until its too late.
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Aganola
Amarr Hungarian Riflemen Regiment
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Posted - 2008.10.13 23:28:00 -
[40]
Edited by: Aganola on 13/10/2008 23:28:16 back:
at least they are a bit more honest now: "We figure out how to maximize our returns. "
"But recently we have seen a surge in this behavior in a way that we were essentially supporting and maintaining a large number of customers that weren't paying us regular subscriptions. That's not fair towards CCP as a service provider and it's not fair towards other players that pay a subscription but don't make use of this bug."
two things:
1: something that has been IN the game for more than 4 years is not a bug anymore it's a feature
2: while being AFK you DO NOT provide any service for us... API update is disabled (EVEMON anyone?), can't log on, can't do jack just to watch a JavaScript timer count down to zero... that is 'A' service?
----------------------------------------------- "I do not belive in reicarnation... I didn't believed in it in my previous lives either..."
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Deco Beco
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Posted - 2008.10.13 23:28:00 -
[41]
CCP has probably never had as much income as of right now because of weak Icelandic Krona vs. Euro or US dollar. Why is did you announce this change now if it wasn't suppose to be like this? It has been like this for 5 years so I betting you're getting greedy.
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Chaos Incarnate
Faceless Logistics
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Posted - 2008.10.13 23:28:00 -
[42]
I would seriously suggest that CCP look into some form of skill queue now, considering there's no reason not to (you can't skill queue for the next year and go away-from-game to have everything trained for <insert ship class here>)
Oddly enough, I have ghost training to thank for Logistics V and BSV, so hey __________
Cannot read from face Abort, Retry, Fail? |
Inanna Zuni
Minmatar The Causality Electus Matari
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Posted - 2008.10.13 23:29:00 -
[43]
It will be interesting in a few months to check the status of all the people who have gone "OHNOES!!!11!!!! I'M QUITTING" and see just how many are still in game.
This is a long overdue closing of a loophole that let people benefit unfairly and I for one am very happy with it.
IZ
My principles
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Ivor Gunn
No One Expects The Spanish Inquisition
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Posted - 2008.10.13 23:29:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Avon If you weren't paying for them all at the same time anyway, who cares?
Becauise now it'll go from 4 accounts active for 6 months of the year to 1 account active at the most. Best case scnario is that CCP have halved their income from that player.
To use the analogy from the blog: snowflakes. expand that to 1000 players and ccp's income has just taken a sizable hit.
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Tyrrax Thorrk
Amarr Developmental Neogenics Amalgamated
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Posted - 2008.10.13 23:29:00 -
[45]
So uh how exactly is this going to work, will skills stop where they are on wednesday on inactive accounts or get reset back to what they were when account ran out ?
You guys do realize you're going to lose a few thousand accounts solely because of this right ?
If you want more money which is the only message I can see in the devblog you're going about it the wrong way.
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LordSwift
INTERSTELLAR ENTERPRISE Final Retribution Alliance
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Posted - 2008.10.13 23:29:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Kazuma Saruwatari Its final then.
Either give us easier skill-training methods (like the already-demanded-for skill queue, even 1 skill deep would suffice) or expect the massive drop of customer satisfaction and the effect of lost subscriptions.
I myself will shout my dissatisfaction by not renewing my only account. Thank you for the time CCP, but your decision basically killed off one of the few great things about EVE to me, personally.
One of the main reasons you played this game was so you could sit on your ass not pay for this game while ur character trains. Good bye, their is the door. have fun with WoW. CCP wants their player base to PLAY the game and PAY for it, like any other business. get used to it.
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Suga H
Gallente Federal Navy Academy
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Posted - 2008.10.13 23:29:00 -
[47]
"maintaining a large number of customers that weren't paying us regular subscriptions."
Except that they had to pay if they wanted to use the character at any point in the future. Meaning people could take breaks and not be screwed out of time or money.
"There was a way to progress a character in EVE without an active subscription"
Ghosting Gal BS V didn't get me anything. I didn't advance any further in the game. Training the skill didn't buy me any capital ship skills. It didn't buy me a Kronos. It didn't earn me anything, it simply saved me time, and money, and allowed me to afford to be active on a second account. When I resubbed with the first account, I didn't log on with anything new, other than the ability to train another skill (however without the ability to afford it, having not been active on that account).
"Players now have to pay a subscription for characters to have them progress"
They had to anyway. Now they have to pay to allow time to pass.
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Fastercart
Gallente Ihatalo Heavy Industries Ihatalo Cartel
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Posted - 2008.10.13 23:29:00 -
[48]
I still say this should have been done before your current (even though it was supposed to end on the 10th) Power of 2 promotion, and not during the end. A lot of people would not have accepted the offer had they known this was coming. In turn, this would have eased the strain on CCP's database. __ Rorqual AKA Mega Maid
Oh, my God. It's Mega Maid. She's gone from suck to blow. |
FalconBayerskt
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Posted - 2008.10.13 23:29:00 -
[49]
"We truly hope that the community will understand our actions and continue to enjoy playing EVE as much as we enjoy making it."
I do understand the effect of yor action however I will not continue to play this game anymore. I have to draw my line somehwere, IT ENDS HERE, Mr. Torfi Frans Olafsson
-1 account = less money for CCP
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midge Mo'yb
Antares Shipyards Vanguard.
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Posted - 2008.10.13 23:29:00 -
[50]
Originally by: CCP Wrangler As the recent news stated, we will disable the ability to train skills on a suspended account. Since this has caused a lot of debate we've decided to explain why we are making this change in a new Dev Blog by t0rfifrans: Why ghost training was disabled.
money grab, Everyone has been affected by the "credit crunch" this may have forced alot of people to cut expenditure.
and all out cut on inactive = canceled skill is shite i never ever have my account on auto renew as my visa debit card isnt my main bank account and if i forget to put the cash into it, and ccp bill me i end up with stupid overdraft fees (ú15 overdraft + 15 a day overdrawn, takes 2 days for letter to arrive....) i think a 2-4 week leaway would be more appropriate than a instant cutoff....
but this is going to cost you more than its gonna make you, can see that much coming, as my on and off 3rd alt if now getting transfered to my main's account -----------------------------------------------
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LordSwift
INTERSTELLAR ENTERPRISE Final Retribution Alliance
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Posted - 2008.10.13 23:30:00 -
[51]
Originally by: dropouthighschoolteacher Hi.
Unsubbed all my accounts.
I truly hope that CCP will understand my actions.
Please contract all your stuff to me. Good bye
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Maconha
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Posted - 2008.10.13 23:30:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Ivor Gunn Edited by: Ivor Gunn on 13/10/2008 23:26:13 Edited by: Ivor Gunn on 13/10/2008 23:25:43
Quote: Ghost Training was an unintended feature
No it wasn't. You've sold this game on that feature, and endorsed it in posts dozens, if not hundreds of times.
Pure hypocrisy.
CCP now u lie to your custumers???? OH my god...you really must be desperated
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Malcanis
RuffRyders Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2008.10.13 23:30:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Ivor Gunn
Originally by: Avon If you weren't paying for them all at the same time anyway, who cares?
Becauise now it'll go from 4 accounts active for 6 months of the year to 1 account active at the most. Best case scnario is that CCP have halved their income from that player.
To use the analogy from the blog: snowflakes. expand that to 1000 players and ccp's income has just taken a sizable hit.
A loophole that CCP devs have referred to as a feature...
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Booomer
Disco Biscuits
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Posted - 2008.10.13 23:30:00 -
[54]
OMG IT WAZ A BUG
.... I mean, seriously, hire a guy that will write the smart stuff for you, mr. Olaffson. You're pretty bad at this.
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Jaxxon Voers
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Posted - 2008.10.13 23:30:00 -
[55]
Quote: But recently we have seen a surge in this behavior in a way that we were essentially supporting and maintaining a large number of customers that weren't paying us regular subscriptions
You mean your servers were calulating a few more digits each day in the database, while it was doing its normal calculations? Don't compound the lie about balance with this new and even more insulting lie. In fact, people who train while expired are no different than people who train while offline. They dont use any resources at all other than some math inside the database.
Its money. Period. Be men and just say, "It's all about the money, we need more, so we are gonna tighten the ship up"
At least then we would be having an honest discussion about the changes.
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Ted's Slave
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Posted - 2008.10.13 23:30:00 -
[56]
Torfi Frans Olafsson you are a star! you are the first person to find that the server logs showed something.....shame it took over five years to find it though.
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Avon
Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.10.13 23:32:00 -
[57]
Hey, your bug...
Skills continue training even if you are logged off or if your account is inactive
I found it in the player guide.
You guys better get in there and ninja-edit it.
Eve-Online: The Text Adventure |
Tappits
Priory Of The Lemon Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2008.10.13 23:32:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Tyrrax Thorrk
You guys do realize you're going to lose a few thousand accounts solely because of this right ?
a few thousand out of 250k does not sound bad will just get rid of all the inactive alts training titan 5 ---------------------------------------------- Pro BOB????? I fail At forums |
LordSwift
INTERSTELLAR ENTERPRISE Final Retribution Alliance
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Posted - 2008.10.13 23:32:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Bloody Rabbit Thank you for stopping the army of alts who ran 5-8 accounts by dark training them in rotation.
As I said before, I pay for 3 accounts 100% of the time, even when I'm called away for a month or more. I don't mind as I set a long skill and when I come back I have gained more skill points. Same when I burn out, I take a few months off but never do I stop paying. The way I see it is I have the right to play this way as I pay for it, but others have gotten away with robbing CCP and the player base by dark training.
Now with this fixed, can CCP look in to setting up a queue for skills?
Exactly how i feel. i do exactly the same. With only one account.
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Col Carter
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Posted - 2008.10.13 23:32:00 -
[60]
Well, I should slap myself for having a read on these forums, bumping into this amazing example of product marketing and raising an eyebrow or two. And this blog is an even greater insult to intelligence.
EVE's a pretty mature game these days, one where even if some of the old crowd are gone there is a visible continuation of care for the game, and not just for the product. Over the years we have seen some amazing marketing hickups, which is normal in any company, but this is getting to a point where the trend of care is taking a nosedive.
Not so much because of the dynamics of this change, though any virtual product marketeer can name a few dozen hands on examples of the high value of nurturing product bonuses beyond the basic attributes, but because of the methods involved and the rapid succession of several other critical changes.
I've spent the last 3 weeks travelling between my own country, the UK and iceland, after having been asked to come of retirement to assist as a financial auditor and advisor, and regardless of the difference in markets and niches I am a bit shocked to observe the same schools of marketing and financial prospect management which are visible in what was once this wonderful EVE as in the recently "traditional" but oh so dangerous schools of economic thought outside of this particular virtual market.
Combined with the GTC product changes, and now tapping into the value elements of the product "EVE", it's a pretty neat case of how a school of thought can initiate a grand move in the wrong direction. Almost funny, when the GTC changes were announced I predicted folks this very change, and even though personally ghost training or its absence makes little difference to me, the manner and form of the change - once more - confirms the trend of the past 11 months.
Long term product streamlining is one thing, separating the product from the subscriber is perhaps a means of crowd control, but it is a method ill suited for long term continuation of a product where the product and the subscriber cannot be seperated from a marketing perspective.
In earlier days the same attempt to remove ghost training was made, a long time ago now. A time where it would have been possible, in contrast to these days where the bonus value elements of a virtual subscription product are so essential to make the product itself both stand out as well as keep the subscribers at an extremely low treshold to always come back.
I can see the financial prospects, such projections are not too difficult nor is the reasoning behind it. I can also see the short term view, as well as the long term view, and I think CCP is very wise to not explore those two topics too much and instead take it on in a step by step fashion.
But these and coming changes will make EVE a game among a sea of others, without the low tresholds that lets people come back, without the foundation for trust of subscribers in the product they come to adore and appreciate alike over time, and the company making that experience in the same breath.
This is hardly a change made because of a distorted view of equality or balance, providing that as an argument is an insult to the intelligence of any subscriber with a little bit of economics education I must admit. In financial terms this will not damage CCP, far from, it will be another step to a changed service model, unfortunately just not the type of service model which people value so much. But a model far more in tune with the rest of the industry, away from the EVE as it is in many, many aspects.
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Thomas Jay
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Posted - 2008.10.13 23:33:00 -
[61]
Good Job CCP I don't see how your going to maximize money when half your player base is telling you BYE BYE to there alt accounts.
1. You screwed us over with the GTC's 2. Your Losing at the minimum 1 account per player. 3. I have no idea how this is "max out your income" you will be losing money.
Amazing Marketing Idea.
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Admiral Frools
The Illuminati. Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2008.10.13 23:34:00 -
[62]
This was so worth waiting the 6 hours for, I mean really
Hey guys, we've had this bug for 5 years that we haven't fixed (and yet know about 100%) but now we've decided to fix it, it's purely coincidence that we've decided to do this just after the power of two and the GTC nerfs, I PROMISE YOU
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Fred Ayurveda
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Posted - 2008.10.13 23:34:00 -
[63]
Originally by: Inanna Zuni It will be interesting in a few months to check the status of all the people who have gone "OHNOES!!!11!!!! I'M QUITTING" and see just how many are still in game.
This is a long overdue closing of a loophole that let people benefit unfairly and I for one am very happy with it.
IZ
You're scum, shitting on your fellow players to the benefit of a greedy, out of touch company. Enjoy your trips to Iceland.
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Maria Huana
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 23:34:00 -
[64]
http://www.eve-online.com/features/
??????
|
Itzena
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 23:34:00 -
[65]
Originally by: Avon Hey, your bug...
Skills continue training even if you are logged off or if your account is inactive
I found it in the player guide.
You guys better get in there and ninja-edit it.
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P Lansdale
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 23:35:00 -
[66]
Originally by: Avon Hey, your bug...
Skills continue training even if you are logged off or if your account is inactive
I found it in the player guide.
You guys better get in there and ninja-edit it.
QFE
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LordSwift
INTERSTELLAR ENTERPRISE Final Retribution Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 23:35:00 -
[67]
Originally by: Suga H "maintaining a large number of customers that weren't paying us regular subscriptions."
Except that they had to pay if they wanted to use the character at any point in the future. Meaning people could take breaks and not be screwed out of time or money.
"There was a way to progress a character in EVE without an active subscription"
Ghosting Gal BS V didn't get me anything. I didn't advance any further in the game. Training the skill didn't buy me any capital ship skills. It didn't buy me a Kronos. It didn't earn me anything, it simply saved me time, and money, and allowed me to afford to be active on a second account. When I resubbed with the first account, I didn't log on with anything new, other than the ability to train another skill (however without the ability to afford it, having not been active on that account).
"Players now have to pay a subscription for characters to have them progress"
They had to anyway. Now they have to pay to allow time to pass.
And that is how it should be. Pay to train. You dont pay your character does not train skills.
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Iraf Thaiberd
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 23:35:00 -
[68]
Edited by: Iraf Thaiberd on 13/10/2008 23:36:45
you have got to be kidding me
unintended?
REALLY?
UNINTENDED?
http://www.eve-online.com/guide/en/g615.asp
Quote: Skills continue training even if you are logged off or if your account is inactive (in the second scenario you can't change skill training, though)
IT'S LISTED IN YOUR PLAYER GUIDE
Your customer service continues to become worse and worse
edit: I see that this has already been posted. A bunch of us immiedately noticed this (because we'd often advertised it as a feature to friends) but you weren't aware that you were selling this game on this "unintended" feature?
You're not fooling anyone, and this dishonest crap is just making the situation worse.
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Cailais
Amarr VITOC
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 23:35:00 -
[69]
Overall the release of this change was badly handled, and quite possibly badly considerd.
There's little doubt the 'upsurge' of ghosting is a direct result of withdrawing 30 day GTCs and of course the time of year (students returning to courses etc etc).
Concerning times for EVE Online I think.
C.
Originally by: Tarminic Your continued whining is somewhat diminished by your continued willingness to give your money to CCP.
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ZeroGasam
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 23:35:00 -
[70]
I havnt been around long, maybe 6 months but being able to one let one of my 3 accounts lapse for awhile whle training a skill, was one of the better things about eve. most of the time 2 or 3 where up and going (my wifes, and my alt's or mine) and would rotate out. now with this I cant do that anymore, so I am giving my corp mates all my stuff I got over the last few months, and quitting eve now.
-3 Accounts
|
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Bonefish O'Hallahan
GoonFleet
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 23:35:00 -
[71]
Originally by: Avon Hey, your bug...
Skills continue training even if you are logged off or if your account is inactive
I found it in the player guide.
You guys better get in there and ninja-edit it.
Avon, you're my homeboy. CCP, look! You're bald-faced liars!
|
Maconha
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 23:35:00 -
[72]
Originally by: Avon Hey, your bug...
Skills continue training even if you are logged off or if your account is inactive
I found it in the player guide.
You guys better get in there and ninja-edit it.
LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL
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Sarin Adler
Caldari Dark Shadow Cartel
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 23:36:00 -
[73]
Lies CCP.
$$$
I hope you fail and lose money with this movement, cheers. ---
Alts, the root of all evil. |
Avon
Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 23:36:00 -
[74]
Originally by: Maria Huana http://www.eve-online.com/features/
??????
Offline is not the same as inactive.
The player guide is where they mention training on inactive accounts.
Eve-Online: The Text Adventure |
Aganola
Amarr Hungarian Riflemen Regiment
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 23:36:00 -
[75]
Originally by: Malcanis
Originally by: Ivor Gunn
Originally by: Avon If you weren't paying for them all at the same time anyway, who cares?
Becauise now it'll go from 4 accounts active for 6 months of the year to 1 account active at the most. Best case scnario is that CCP have halved their income from that player.
To use the analogy from the blog: snowflakes. expand that to 1000 players and ccp's income has just taken a sizable hit.
A loophole that CCP devs have referred to as a feature...
http://support.eve-online.com/Pages/KB/Article.aspx?id=167
excerpt:
Quote: EVE has a unique approach to character advancement. Your account has the ability to train one character at a time no matter whether you're online or not, so if you start a training session before you go to sleep it will continue its advancement in real time while you are sleeping.
This bonus comes at the cost of only being able to train one character at a time per account.
----------------------------------------------- "I do not belive in reicarnation... I didn't believed in it in my previous lives either..."
|
Lubomir Penev
Section XIII Tau Ceti Federation
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 23:36:00 -
[76]
Funny how the balance argument disappeared, could you not be honest the first time around?
As for unsubscribed people loading your db, you know you have a pretty technical audience right? -- I'm done whining about AFs, it looks like they are making them right \o/ |
Vin Fell
DARKFELL EXCURSIONS
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 23:36:00 -
[77]
/me doesn't approve
|
Sarin Adler
Caldari Dark Shadow Cartel
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 23:36:00 -
[78]
Originally by: Maconha
Originally by: Avon Hey, your bug...
Skills continue training even if you are logged off or if your account is inactive
I found it in the player guide.
You guys better get in there and ninja-edit it.
LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL
Owned much by their own guide, lol. ---
Alts, the root of all evil. |
Argentis Azure
The Greater Goon GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 23:36:00 -
[79]
Quoted from the Player guide:
Skills continue training even if you are logged off or if your account is inactive
http://www.eve-online.com/guide/en/g615.asp
Bug, you say?
|
D4RT N3RDiUS
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 23:37:00 -
[80]
CCP IS NOT THE BUG/PROBLEM IS YOUR ATTITUDE AND YOU ARE MAKING ONE BIG MISTAKE PPL DOESNT TRUST YOU NO MORE ... SHAME ON YOU...
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Celardore
Gallente Terminal Logic
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 23:37:00 -
[81]
Originally by: Col Carter ...separating the product from the subscriber is perhaps a means of crowd control
My gosh... Crowd Control Productions.
Never before have I understood the name so well.
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LordSwift
INTERSTELLAR ENTERPRISE Final Retribution Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 23:37:00 -
[82]
Originally by: Fred Ayurveda
Originally by: Inanna Zuni It will be interesting in a few months to check the status of all the people who have gone "OHNOES!!!11!!!! I'M QUITTING" and see just how many are still in game.
This is a long overdue closing of a loophole that let people benefit unfairly and I for one am very happy with it.
IZ
You're scum, shitting on your fellow players to the benefit of a greedy, out of touch company. Enjoy your trips to Iceland.
Oh i will for sure. Bye
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Pellura
Caldari Perkone
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 23:37:00 -
[83]
Originally by: Bonefish O'Hallahan
Originally by: Avon Hey, your bug...
Skills continue training even if you are logged off or if your account is inactive
I found it in the player guide.
You guys better get in there and ninja-edit it.
Avon, you're my homeboy. CCP, look! You're bald-faced liars!
selfownt. the level of CCP failure is truly astounding. it's not even epic, it's WICKED SICK EPIC FAIL. ^^ |
midge Mo'yb
Antares Shipyards Vanguard.
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 23:37:00 -
[84]
Originally by: Avon Hey, your bug...
Skills continue training even if you are logged off or if your account is inactive
I found it in the player guide.
You guys better get in there and ninja-edit it.
bug my ass, money grab (before its edited :P) -----------------------------------------------
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Molten Steel
19th Star Logistics
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 23:38:00 -
[85]
I call BS & would also like to nominate this post/blog as worst damage control attempt ever...
You are a greedy money chewing monster - FACT.
But it's also a company. We make a product, sell it, get salaries and then continue maintaining the product and making it better.
You say it yourself - you are a company and your primary objective will always be to make money off our addiction to internet spaceships. Don't play this off as a balance issue or anything else. Have some bloody balls and just be frank about this. You'd still get smacked by most people but that's more because this is an absolutely ******ed change and whomever in your accountance-department came up with this idea should be fired, then rehired just so you can fire him again.
Again -1 account (someone should count this btw)
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Ariah Constantine
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 23:38:00 -
[86]
''There was a way to progress a character in EVE without an active subscription''
Doesn't actually matter because you have to pay the subscription fee to start training a skill in the first place. I see no sense in this.
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Tappits
Priory Of The Lemon Atlas Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 23:38:00 -
[87]
Edited by: Tappits on 13/10/2008 23:38:17 ? ---------------------------------------------- Pro BOB????? I fail At forums |
Atterius
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 23:38:00 -
[88]
Originally by: Avon Hey, your bug...
Skills continue training even if you are logged off or if your account is inactive
I found it in the player guide.
You guys better get in there and ninja-edit it.
HUGE BUG OMG ITS A BUG OHH WAIT (thinks to self) though you guys said this was a feature? SOO confused.
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Chaos Incarnate
Faceless Logistics
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 23:38:00 -
[89]
Also, for those of you who'd like the silver lining to this raging shitstorm, the prices of GTCs will probably go down from people not supporting a group of alt accounts via ghosting __________
Cannot read from face Abort, Retry, Fail? |
Pinel
Gallente Federal Navy Academy
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 23:38:00 -
[90]
This "bug" was listed as a feature in your own damn player guide/manual.
That makes no sense...
|
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Seth Ruin
Minmatar Ominous Corp Ethereal Dawn
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 23:39:00 -
[91]
Originally by: Avon Hey, your bug...
Skills continue training even if you are logged off or if your account is inactive
I found it in the player guide.
You guys better get in there and ninja-edit it.
You, sir, are a hero.
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Aganola
Amarr Hungarian Riflemen Regiment
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 23:39:00 -
[92]
Edited by: Aganola on 13/10/2008 23:40:28 you mean this one too?
edit: too late for ninja edit!
saved pasted printed and showed... hello law suite! XD ----------------------------------------------- "I do not belive in reicarnation... I didn't believed in it in my previous lives either..."
|
Yakumo Smith
Gallente When Darkness Falls
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 23:39:00 -
[93]
Originally by: Lubomir Penev Funny how the balance argument disappeared, could you not be honest the first time around?
As for unsubscribed people loading your db, you know you have a pretty technical audience right?
Maybe we should stop posting here, they can realocate the storage space to the character database. Seems it needs shoring up with the "surge" in ghosts
I suppose this must be my sig. I'll do something cool with it eventually. |
Lubomir Penev
Section XIII Tau Ceti Federation
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 23:39:00 -
[94]
Originally by: Aganola
1: something that has been IN the game for more than 4 years is not a bug anymore it's a feature
Damn, no hope for a fixed overview then. -- I'm done whining about AFs, it looks like they are making them right \o/ |
Todoshi
Caldari Caldari Logistics and Supplies
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 23:39:00 -
[95]
so yes it was a **** you we want your money.
well in response FURB
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NeoShocker
Caldari Foundation Sons of Tangra
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 23:39:00 -
[96]
Edited by: NeoShocker on 13/10/2008 23:40:07 While I understand the situation, however, given the SHORT notice of the news, its just not right. Its been going on for years, and you just announce this? plus this dev blog is vague. I'm not satisfied of this blog at all.
This change will little or no effect me. Just need to use my cash more wisely now. I admit I have few times "ghost training." This is my ONLY character for Eve-Online. I love this game and will continue to play since this has no direct effect on the game (other than alts). But given the circumstances, you guys did it at the WRONG time and/or SHORT notice.
I would really like to recommend you CCP guys to delay it at least a month so people will take time to take notice of this change. -----------------------------------
Peace through power! |
LordSwift
INTERSTELLAR ENTERPRISE Final Retribution Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 23:40:00 -
[97]
Originally by: Molten Steel I call BS & would also like to nominate this post/blog as worst damage control attempt ever...
You are a greedy money chewing monster - FACT.
But it's also a company. We make a product, sell it, get salaries and then continue maintaining the product and making it better.
You say it yourself - you are a company and your primary objective will always be to make money off our addiction to internet spaceships. Don't play this off as a balance issue or anything else. Have some bloody balls and just be frank about this. You'd still get smacked by most people but that's more because this is an absolutely ******ed change and whomever in your accountance-department came up with this idea should be fired, then rehired just so you can fire him again.
Again -1 account (someone should count this btw)
Nah your not worth it
|
Seeker Ash
Minmatar Tribal Liberation Force
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 23:40:00 -
[98]
Edited by: Seeker Ash on 13/10/2008 23:43:16 1. The "surge" in this behavior is pretty convenient given the economy of the times, isn't it?
2. You have actively supported ghost training in the past. Saying it's an unintended bug makes you liars.
3. Not that I want to tell you how to do your business, but you're doing the exact opposite of giving your customers a little extra to make them pay for your luxury product in this strained economy.
4. Until there's a revolutionary planetside expansion that makes the game explosively popular and cements its future existence, I'm not playing. I say when and not if, I still have faith that the game will survive, just not enough that I want to risk giving it any commitment.
5. So long. _________________ "Even space ships pilots get the blues." |
Laice
Caldari Judicial Blade Novus Aevum
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 23:40:00 -
[99]
Originally by: Suga H "maintaining a large number of customers that weren't paying us regular subscriptions."
Except that they had to pay if they wanted to use the character at any point in the future. Meaning people could take breaks and not be screwed out of time or money.
"There was a way to progress a character in EVE without an active subscription"
Ghosting Gal BS V didn't get me anything. I didn't advance any further in the game. Training the skill didn't buy me any capital ship skills. It didn't buy me a Kronos. It didn't earn me anything, it simply saved me time, and money, and allowed me to afford to be active on a second account. When I resubbed with the first account, I didn't log on with anything new, other than the ability to train another skill (however without the ability to afford it, having not been active on that account).
"Players now have to pay a subscription for characters to have them progress"
They had to anyway. Now they have to pay to allow time to pass.
this ^^
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Reihai
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 23:40:00 -
[100]
-1 account here.
|
|
Proud American
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 23:40:00 -
[101]
Because you are a producer I can see why you care more about money than your companies image or your customers. |
Avon
Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 23:41:00 -
[102]
Edited by: Avon on 13/10/2008 23:42:32 Actually, let me change that post and just say again:
I am still all in favour of this change, I just think the PR sucks.
Eve-Online: The Text Adventure |
LordSwift
INTERSTELLAR ENTERPRISE Final Retribution Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 23:42:00 -
[103]
Originally by: Seth Ruin
Originally by: Avon Hey, your bug...
Skills continue training even if you are logged off or if your account is inactive
I found it in the player guide.
You guys better get in there and ninja-edit it.
You, sir, are a hero.
No he has no life. and has nothing better to do than search the small print somewhere stating old information. Damn give them a chance to update everything.
|
Somealt Ofmine
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 23:42:00 -
[104]
So, how does this effect alt-farming for isk, meaning training up a character on an un-played account with the intention of selling it? I'm guessing that it just went from viable to not viable.
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Lethreas Lashnda
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 23:42:00 -
[105]
damn it. this is how to be started to go to the elevator to down this game .... give back 30 day gtc as that said also liar thing like this ghost thing.all about the money, big liar u did anything because of players. hahh, that sure u lost my alt money while eve is exist anymore.i am seriously wanna know how many people choose this way and how much u lost money from now because of this wrong decision (BUG) . this BUG was one of thing what like in eve to me , it was different from every mmo what came out to the world. really dont understand why have to kill this great game these things. delete 30 90d gtc, 33% more price for gtc and sure we have to pay much more money like usa peoples, because they live in usa. okay i understand it, we have to pay in euro but then i dont believe that cant do that not same price (u know 2 eur almost 3 usd. anyway its agreat game i hope it will be in next year to, and not will be finished because these (i guess) wrong decisions.....
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midge Mo'yb
Antares Shipyards Vanguard.
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 23:42:00 -
[106]
tbh, CCP are worse than SOE for mone grab lately... -----------------------------------------------
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Maconha
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 23:42:00 -
[107]
Edited by: Maconha on 13/10/2008 23:42:54
Originally by: Chaos Incarnate Also, for those of you who'd like the silver lining to this raging shitstorm, the prices of GTCs will probably go down from people not supporting a group of alt accounts via ghosting
CHAOS INCARNATE your face is great!!!! how do you made it???? i wonder if my grafic board is dying, and i can¦t see your face :D????? please reply
|
wide
55378008
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 23:43:00 -
[108]
Edited by: wide on 13/10/2008 23:42:52 Morsus Mihi now know who to blame for the lag in M-O - those pesky Ghost Trainers! |
Mhaerdirne Solveig
Minmatar
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 23:43:00 -
[109]
Edited by: Mhaerdirne Solveig on 13/10/2008 23:43:25 yeah I'm closing 2 accounts very soon as well
this won't be the end of my bad posting because I'll still have one...
if you want my bad posts to go away you should suggest more terrible changes Signature removed. Text is showing as "Signature no longer available" and filesize is well in excess of the allowed 400 x 120 pixels. Navigator |
Chestnut Stallion
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 23:43:00 -
[110]
-3 accounts
|
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Silvia t'Nias
Paramilitary Skanks
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 23:43:00 -
[111]
Originally by: Inanna Zuni It will be interesting in a few months to check the status of all the people who have gone "OHNOES!!!11!!!! I'M QUITTING" and see just how many are still in game.
This is a long overdue closing of a loophole that let people benefit unfairly and I for one am very happy with it.
IZ
Unfairly to whom?
To CCP? Keeping the training bit at "1" instead of "0" doesn't use any server time, and uses up precious little harddisc space. Ergo, it's not really costing CCP anything. After all, they're saving the character on their server even when it's not subscribed to. Having an unsubscribed character's wallet change (due to trade orders or donations or whatever) is a far more serious load on the server than having a static training flag in the "on" position.
Unfair to other players? This feature has been available to everybody.
You can check back on me 2 months from now, if you like. I won't have stopped playing, but of the 3 accounts that I _do_ have, 2 will be gone. I usually have 2 of them open, often all three, but not all of them all the time. And yes, sometimes, but rarely, I only have 1 of them open.
Now 2 of them will be closed off permanently. And you can take that to the bank. If there's any left.
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LordSwift
INTERSTELLAR ENTERPRISE Final Retribution Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 23:43:00 -
[112]
Originally by: Reihai -1 account here.
+ Isk and stuff here ---->
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jitasucks
The Peoples Republic of Uganda
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 23:43:00 -
[113]
Edited by: jitasucks on 13/10/2008 23:44:11 Its ok guys we can shit all over our paying subscribers cos they're all addicted so they'll never quit blah blah blah *drops another deuce*
And yeah CAN I PLEASE GET AN ANSWER ON GTC SALES FOR ISK, IT'S JUST AS BIG OF AN UNFAIR ISSUE AS THIS SUPPOSED GHOST TRAINING AND YET BECAUSE ITS ALL MONEY IN CCP'S POCKET I MEAN REALLY, WHO GIVES A SHIT?
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Di Ferguson
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 23:43:00 -
[114]
Classic, cant explain it? blaim it on the lag
|
Phil Anthropist
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 23:43:00 -
[115]
"Skills continue training even if you are logged off or if your account is inactive (in the second scenario you can't change skill training, though)."
Bugs what. |
AdmiralSexyPants
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 23:43:00 -
[116]
Originally by: Avon Hey, your bug...
Skills continue training even if you are logged off or if your account is inactive
I found it in the player guide.
You guys better get in there and ninja-edit it.
Originally by: midge Mo'yb
Speaking from personal experience, I've used the time off to train long skills, try new things that I wouldn't previously, walk away from needing to change skills, needing to set my alarm clock to make sure I change that skill the second it finished, etc.
I like Eve. Hell, the unsubbed training thing is one of the *PRIMARY* reasons I am still playing Eve. If this FEATURE and SELLING POINT gets removed, my several hundred dollar a year addiction just got reduced to an on rare occasion thing.
(Maybe I should thank CCP for helping me kick the habit) I have no honor :( |
Chaos Incarnate
Faceless Logistics
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 23:44:00 -
[117]
Originally by: Maconha Edited by: Maconha on 13/10/2008 23:42:54
Originally by: Chaos Incarnate Also, for those of you who'd like the silver lining to this raging shitstorm, the prices of GTCs will probably go down from people not supporting a group of alt accounts via ghosting
CHAOS INCARNATE your face is great!!!! how do you made it???? i wonder if my grafic board is dying, and i can¦t see your face :D????? please reply
I'm a Jovian, secretly __________
Cannot read from face Abort, Retry, Fail? |
Dungar Loghoth
Caldari The Illuminati. Pandemic Legion
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 23:44:00 -
[118]
We game the system. ---
|
Avon
Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 23:44:00 -
[119]
Originally by: LordSwift
No he has no life. and has nothing better to do than search the small print somewhere stating old information. Damn give them a chance to update everything.
It didn't take a great deal of effort to type "skill training inactive" in teh search box on the top right of the forums tbh.
Eve-Online: The Text Adventure |
LordSwift
INTERSTELLAR ENTERPRISE Final Retribution Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 23:44:00 -
[120]
Originally by: Chestnut Stallion -3 accounts
bye, all your stuff via contract to me. Thanks
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Wootang
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 23:44:00 -
[121]
Originally by: Ivor Gunn Edited by: Ivor Gunn on 13/10/2008 23:36:12
Quote: Ghost Training was an unintended feature
No it wasn't.
Quote: Skills continue training even if you are logged off or if your account is inactive
You contradict your own knowledge base.
Pure hypocrisy.
In the blog, which is fairly small, you try to justify it by talking about bug fixing, game balance issues and database issues across the space of a few paragraphs.
Do you even know yourselves why you're doing this?
-3 accounts. Purely for lying to us, you shameless money grabbing corporate *****s.
totally signed!
ccp this is defiantly one of the worst shots in your own foot you ever tried to do...
this means -2 accounts for me -> in combination with the 60 day timecode stuff thinking about -3 accounts just to hit you guys to wake you up!
also simply because you should NOT lie to your community... yes i do have experience with having a gamer community but i do work to do what the community wants and likes and not what gives me more and more profit i am happy with making the customers happy and not by gaining more and more money ( talking about a browsergame i am working on )...
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fiber0pti
the united
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 23:45:00 -
[122]
Edited by: fiber0pti on 13/10/2008 23:45:06
your full of sh*t ccp Please resize signature to the maxim allowed size of 400 x 120 pixels. Navigator |
Harasies
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 23:45:00 -
[123]
Advertising Standards
|
Mhaerdirne Solveig
Minmatar
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 23:45:00 -
[124]
Originally by: LordSwift
Originally by: Reihai -1 account here.
+ Isk and stuff here ---->
in case you haven't gotten the memo yet, you are what they call "that guy" Signature removed. Text is showing as "Signature no longer available" and filesize is well in excess of the allowed 400 x 120 pixels. Navigator |
Ragon
Minmatar Depleted Uranium
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Posted - 2008.10.13 23:45:00 -
[125]
I have Unsubbed my account and hope ccp will consider theyre action. Where is the old ccp :( ------------------------------------------- Member of 3FA |
Cueball Mcfuzz
Groon Research
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Posted - 2008.10.13 23:45:00 -
[126]
Originally by: LordSwift
Originally by: Reihai -1 account here.
+ Isk and stuff here ---->
Post with your main, Innana. And again, screw you for siding with the big company over your friends.
CCP: Respond, now.
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Masked Shopper
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Posted - 2008.10.13 23:45:00 -
[127]
I still think if you cut down on the tropical fish in your massive fishtank and turn off the webcam once in a while you might not have to spray manure all over the people giving you money
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LordSwift
INTERSTELLAR ENTERPRISE Final Retribution Alliance
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Posted - 2008.10.13 23:46:00 -
[128]
Edited by: LordSwift on 13/10/2008 23:45:51
Originally by: Avon
Originally by: LordSwift
No he has no life. and has nothing better to do than search the small print somewhere stating old information. Damn give them a chance to update everything.
It didn't take a great deal of effort to type "skill training inactive" in teh search box on the top right of the forums tbh.
Fair enough. :)
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Eclair J
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Posted - 2008.10.13 23:46:00 -
[129]
Why does CCP continually post idiotic blogs and such when people in Iceland are heading to bed?
Waking up senior producers to steady the ship doesn't work till you feed them more coffee.
This post is worse than the first. The first one we "assumed" you were lying and wanted more money. Now you admit it, but still lie claiming a game feature is a bug.
Take some free advise, don't reply any more till tomorrow morning Iceland time as your track record tonight indicates you'll just annoy even more of us.
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el toppolino
Caldari Evolution Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.10.13 23:46:00 -
[130]
puh thx ccp i jsut was about to start a 3rd account. damn that was close. plan canceled in time.
see the point ? Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed filesize of 24000 bytes -Sahwoolo Etoophie ([email protected]) Fury Website |
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Pellura
Caldari Perkone
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Posted - 2008.10.13 23:46:00 -
[131]
Edited by: Pellura on 13/10/2008 23:46:47 http://support.eve-online.com/Pages/KB/Article.aspx?id=167
Quote: "This bonus comes at the cost of only being able to train one character at a time per account."
bug, says you?
BULLSHIT, says I. ^^ |
midge Mo'yb
Antares Shipyards Vanguard.
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Posted - 2008.10.13 23:46:00 -
[132]
We have to pay to initiate the skill, why should it change at all?
as someone said flaging a skill in the db uses no resources at all, Money grab!
also maybee the surge in inactive trainign accounts is because you stole the flexibility of the 30 day gtc? -----------------------------------------------
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Maconha
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Posted - 2008.10.13 23:46:00 -
[133]
Edited by: Maconha on 13/10/2008 23:47:58
I'm a Jovian, secretly
u crazy jovian hehehe :D
can u get me one ship of jove empire??? yes??? please ??? LOL
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D4RT N3RDiUS
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Posted - 2008.10.13 23:47:00 -
[134]
Quote: Torfi Frans Olafsson
Senior Producer of EVE Online
your a lier sir a big biig lier...
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Mad Mackem
E X O D U S
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Posted - 2008.10.13 23:47:00 -
[135]
Ok I have a question,
You stop this ghosting as you call it, my friend who is in the military now has to have a active subscription.
Can I have CCP's permission to log onto his account to change his skills?
Regards
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Gemini Pollux
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Posted - 2008.10.13 23:47:00 -
[136]
Originally by: Malcanis OK that's a lot more honest, at least. Foolish, but plausible.
So why the terribly insulting rubbish (the word I really want to use just comes out as asterisks) about "game balance" in the initial announcement?
Did it ever occur to you that maybe - just maybe - a lot of people are kind of insecure in their financial position at the moment, and they're cutting back on unnecesarry expenses right now?
Did it occur to you that it might be a good idea to give them an incentive to return?
Did it occur to you that increasing the perceived cost of an alt - with 2 days notice - just after you finished a promotion to get people to reate alt accounts might be seen as just a teeny tiny bit like, you know, a good old fashioned bait-and-switch?
Anyway, you're losing two intermittent subs from me. Get one of those accounts from Lehman brothers - he'll tell you how to turn that into a net gain, I'm sure.
WELL SAID!!!
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Dungar Loghoth
Caldari The Illuminati. Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2008.10.13 23:47:00 -
[137]
you guys are missing the point. this is the old CCP. half the game's 'bugs' are 'features' and more than half the features are bugged. this sounds exactly the ccp i remember. ---
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Chomin H'ak
The Trivenerate
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Posted - 2008.10.13 23:48:00 -
[138]
'bug', huh? BS.
Been a feature I've known about for a year and a half.
Better make sure other people don't have an 'unfair advantage' by being able to keep buy/sell orders up while they aren't paid up on their subs.
You're full of shit, CCP. I thought I'd stay on after T20, cause I figured you did your 'oops, we were drunk' moment. You only gets one of those...
Bye!
Originally by: Frenden Dax My heart hopes that people aren't that stupid, but my experiences thus far suggest otherwise.
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fiber0pti
the united
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Posted - 2008.10.13 23:48:00 -
[139]
Edited by: fiber0pti on 13/10/2008 23:49:01
THE LIE
As many of you know by now, on Wednesday, Oct 15th, CCP will put out a server update disabling "ghost training". Ghost Training was an unintended feature where unpaid accounts of EVE Online were able to continue training skills. While this allowed players to run multiple characters on a shoestring budget, in all effect, this was a bug.
THE TRUTH
this blatantly shows your full of crap and all about the mighty $ Please resize signature to the maxim allowed size of 400 x 120 pixels. Navigator |
Viper ShizzIe
The Illuminati. Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2008.10.13 23:49:00 -
[140]
From your own playerguide, CCP.
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Kif
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.10.13 23:49:00 -
[141]
Originally by: LordSwift
Originally by: Reihai -1 account here.
+ Isk and stuff here ---->
I hope you enjoy eves slow transformation into a generic Korean grind MMO
-1 account, and no you cant have the isk because its not subscribed and nor will it ever be again
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Biosman
No Quarter. Imperial Republic Of the North
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Posted - 2008.10.13 23:49:00 -
[142]
1.It WAS a feature you bragged about that made EVE different to other MMorpgs. 2.You nerfed the 30 GTC 3.You introduced the second account promo 4.You kill the feature @ 1. above with reverse spin 5.You take away a reason for coming back at all.
At the end of the day you still gotta pay at least 60 day GTC to reactivate the char to even train another skill,for most people ie: BS lvl V = 40-60 days depending on attributes,I dont see the big issue.
However,If it forces people to cancel their subscription,which undoubtably will be lots and lots,maybe we can get back to 12000 people online again and have the fleet battles we used to be able to have with acceptable server/client latency [url=http://noq.bttg.net/killboard/?a=pilot_detail&plt_id=6318] [/url] |
Carsidava
Ars ex Discordia GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.10.13 23:49:00 -
[143]
Quote: Now a single customer that doesn't log into the servers may not weigh heavily on our database infrastructure, just as a single snowflake isn't that heavy, hardly a measurable quantity. But it's hard not to notice an avalanche if it hits you. And that's what was starting to happen in our database.
Can someone please explain how an inactive account will weigh down CCP's database more than an active account? |
Cor'len
The Silence of Thunder
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Posted - 2008.10.13 23:49:00 -
[144]
Bad idea all around. The only thing this will lead to is people taking a month or two off, deciding that they didn't miss EVE that much, and since there's nothing new they decide to run off.
No, this doesn't load the servers to oblivion. I'd bet good money on no ghost training loading them MORE, as the server must go through extra hoops to check if you're subscribed or not.
Pshh, stupid money-making bullsh*t.
-Cor There'd be a graphical sig here if I wasn't so lazy. |
GO MaZ
The Illuminati. Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2008.10.13 23:49:00 -
[145]
QUICK GUYS POST A DAMAGE CONTROL BLOG THEY'RE ALL SO STUPID THEY WONT REALISE IT AND EVERYONE WILL FORGET IT IN 6 HOURS
How ****ing stupid do you have to be before you acquire a position of power at CCP, just outta curiosity? (I'm pretty stupid, I could probably be your Economist) ---
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LordSwift
INTERSTELLAR ENTERPRISE Final Retribution Alliance
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Posted - 2008.10.13 23:49:00 -
[146]
Originally by: Cueball Mcfuzz
Originally by: LordSwift
Originally by: Reihai -1 account here.
+ Isk and stuff here ---->
Post with your main, Innana. And again, screw you for siding with the big company over your friends.
CCP: Respond, now.
This is my one and only character. what you going on about?
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Alekanderu
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.10.13 23:49:00 -
[147]
Originally by: LordSwift
Originally by: Chestnut Stallion -3 accounts
bye, all your stuff via contract to me. Thanks
why do you keep posting this? do you think you're making some kind of point?
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Anathema Matou
Moonmaiden Ltd. Avateas Blessed
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Posted - 2008.10.13 23:49:00 -
[148]
This really turned into a test of how many insults players will accept, didn't it?
Please stop it while you can still save your face.
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midge Mo'yb
Antares Shipyards Vanguard.
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Posted - 2008.10.13 23:50:00 -
[149]
Originally by: Carsidava
Quote: Now a single customer that doesn't log into the servers may not weigh heavily on our database infrastructure, just as a single snowflake isn't that heavy, hardly a measurable quantity. But it's hard not to notice an avalanche if it hits you. And that's what was starting to happen in our database.
Can someone please explain how an inactive account will weigh down CCP's database more than an active account?
changing a 0 to a 1!!!!
oh man the weight!! the servers will colapse? -----------------------------------------------
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Seth Ruin
Minmatar Ominous Corp Ethereal Dawn
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Posted - 2008.10.13 23:50:00 -
[150]
I do have to say I'm glad they at least admitted it was all about money...
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Pyea
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Posted - 2008.10.13 23:50:00 -
[151]
capsuleers who actively put their time and energy into working on their characters will no longer be unfairly affected by those few who have not.
If I train a long skill and let my sub run out (for IRL commitments etc) this is unfairly affecting others? The difference to me will be that I pay to not actually play the game. The difference to you will be more money.
No doubt the recent economic problems have dented the current subscription base, this is just a kneejerk reaction to get more active subscriptions so it doesn't look like you're loosing bussiness. Same move as with the 60 day time codes.
It also seems you've taken it off the recent news. Good one...
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Inanna Zuni
Minmatar The Causality Electus Matari
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Posted - 2008.10.13 23:50:00 -
[152]
Originally by: Fred Ayurveda
Originally by: Inanna Zuni It will be interesting in a few months to check the status of all the people who have gone "OHNOES!!!11!!!! I'M QUITTING" and see just how many are still in game.
This is a long overdue closing of a loophole that let people benefit unfairly and I for one am very happy with it.
IZ
You're scum, shitting on your fellow players to the benefit of a greedy, out of touch company. Enjoy your trips to Iceland.
And I love you too. Whose alt are you, btw?
(They aren't being greedy, they just want to be paid for the service they provide! You work for free, right?)
My principles
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Pbs
Pumpkin Scissors
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Posted - 2008.10.13 23:50:00 -
[153]
Quote: Does that mean that CCP is a greedy money chewing monster that just loves nerfing things?
Yes, of course.
Quote: We are gamers.
You are - sorry, i know English not so well as i wish - but in Russia peoples like you we call "(censored)".
Quote: We truly hope that the community will understand our actions and continue to enjoy playing EVE as much as we enjoy making it.
I am truly hope that you lose A LOT OF money in this... Ahm, how its on english... In Russia we call this "(censored)".
-1 accaunt (maybe -2)
Cheers
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D4RT N3RDiUS
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Posted - 2008.10.13 23:50:00 -
[154]
"Skills continue training even if you are logged off or if your account is inactive (in the second scenario you can't change skill training, though)."
Bugs what.
Torfi Frans Olafsson
Senior Producer of EVE Online
LIER LIER LIER LIER LIER LIER...
THIS IS WY YOU GONA LOST A LOT OF COSTUMER BECOUSE THEY DONT BELIEVE IN YOU ANIMORE YOU ARE A BAG OF LIES AND AGAIN YOU REINFORCE THE FEELING BY EDITING ALL THE POST SAYING YOU GOT OWNED !!!
ANDA AGAIN! YOU GOT OWNED! IN YOUR GAME ! JAJAJAJAJAJJAJAAJAJJAAJAJJAAJJA
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Tarron Sarek
Gallente Biotronics Inc. Alternative Realities
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Posted - 2008.10.13 23:50:00 -
[155]
Edited by: Tarron Sarek on 13/10/2008 23:53:47
So, the bottom line is that 'normal' players, who merely used that feature in a moderate manner and valued it as a unique game feature among MMOs will draw the shortest straw, because a bunch of greedy players and/or ISK farmers abused it?
Seems like reallife. Some bad people totally overdo things and in the end screw over everybody else.
Wasn't there a way to fix this without hurting everybody? Like disabling ghost training for trial chars. Like limiting ghost training to max one week after unsubscribing. Like at least introduce a skill queue to offer some compensation. Like re-defining (fixing) 0.0 capital blob warfare?
I mean, how many of those ghost training alts that make up the 'avalanche' are capital pilots? I'd really like to know.
___________________________________
Balance is power, guard hide it well
"Ceterum censeo Polycarbonem esse delendam" |
Lifewringer
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Posted - 2008.10.13 23:50:00 -
[156]
You FAIL CCP. I will not forgive you UNLESS you take away capped training on the same account away. If I have 3 chars on that account I want to be able to train them all at once. Otherwise you are UNFORGIVEN.
-1 account
Have fun playing CCP (it will be mostly your toons around)
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Aganola
Amarr Hungarian Riflemen Regiment
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Posted - 2008.10.13 23:51:00 -
[157]
posting it again just to **** them off:
http://support.eve-online.com/Pages/KB/Article.aspx?id=167
excerpt: Quote: Quote: EVE has a unique approach to character advancement. Your account has the ability to train one character at a time no matter whether you're online or not, so if you start a training session before you go to sleep it will continue its advancement in real time while you are sleeping.
This bonus comes at the cost of only being able to train one character at a time per account.
and the source of the second one: http://www.eve-online.com/guide/en/g615.asp
scroll down a bit you'll find it just below the two blue tables ----------------------------------------------- "I do not belive in reicarnation... I didn't believed in it in my previous lives either..."
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Elmicker
Wreckless Abandon
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Posted - 2008.10.13 23:51:00 -
[158]
Edited by: Elmicker on 13/10/2008 23:51:56
Originally by: Inanna Zuni they just want to be paid for the service they provide! You work for free, right?)
Actually. Yes.
The vast majority of people who work in a professional capacity go far beyond their contractual requirements, to provide a better service to their customers.
CCP has advertised this as standard service for 5 years now, and suddenly we're a bunch of cheating thieves. It leaves a bitter taste.
Now, if they were to sweeten the deal, for example by allowing us to train all 3 of our chars at once instead of them just being ornaments, it'd be a different matter. As it stands we're losing an advertised service and gaining nothing at a time when, for most people, money is tight. It's just silly.
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Peter Greed
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Posted - 2008.10.13 23:51:00 -
[159]
The news about ghost training being removed hurt a bit, yeah. Fair enough though, All good things come to an end. However, the 'bug' explanation is outrageous.
Sorry CCP, I guess I took the red pill this morning. I woke up from my 'database slumber' and realized I am not a foolish consumer who appreciates the typical P.R. spin. I mean, there are 6 year courses on bs spin. This could have been handled in a way that didn't make EVERYONE involved feel like a big sweaty buttock. Read a book.
Hey, maybe a 're-do'? When will that 're-do' statement be ready? I can write it for you:
************ Dear players,
We know the beloved ghost training nerf comes as a shock for most of you. It has really been enjoyable watching everyone e-suffer about it. We apologize about the 'bug' statement that was made earlier. The gentlemen had never heard an explanation, so he naturally assumed the 'ghost training' feature we have all been talking about for years was really something else entirely.
So, we need more income. We realize blunt force truth rarely works these days, but we got a memo today telling us that our playerbase wasn't full of hacks and asshats. Now, we've manned up and handled business. We only regret that we can't collect interest from the tears of all the e-tradgedy.
Thanks, we all hope you enjoy playing this MMO as much as we enjoy modeling ourselves like any great Sony MMO. -The Eve Fatcats
Greed sees Greed.
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Duvaren
Amarr The Maverick Navy Pupule 'Ohana
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Posted - 2008.10.13 23:52:00 -
[160]
Originally by: Avon
..you'd better be real quick cleaning out the forums of historical CCP posts about this "feature" as it was, before you try to make out it is now a "bug".
Added from my later post: Hey, your bug...
Skills continue training even if you are logged off or if your account is inactive
I found it in the player guide.
You guys better get in there and ninja-edit it.
In my opinion CCP has just been caught in a falsehood.
Greed 4tl.
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Makkiel
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Posted - 2008.10.13 23:52:00 -
[161]
There're lots of things to do to earn more money and you choosed the worst one.
GJ CCP
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gusta
Chaos Reborn
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Posted - 2008.10.13 23:52:00 -
[162]
Good job CCP. Atleast when I take a break from your game I wont be comming back anymore. EVE gets dull quite a bit and this was the only thing that brought me back after my few breaks from eve, knowing that I had a skill that was finishing or finished that made it nice. Now it just means that when I take my break I wont have anything interesting to come back to thus losing out on more sub fees. And lets not forget the 3 accounts I usualy have active at any given time. You just made it so I will be dropping 1 or 2 of my accounts.
And another thing, the increase of ghost training could it have anything to do with the fact that eve is getting stagnent and nothing new is happening or no new features have been implimented for quite some time? maybe the increase in ghost training has to do with you incompatence to keep us interested.
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Lallante
Reikoku Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.10.13 23:52:00 -
[163]
Sadly, I'm going to buck the trend and say I resubbed at this announcement (despite not really being active for...well, forever).
Nevertheless, this was clearly a fecking stupid move by CCP. First the price rise (whatever they may call it) of GTCs, hmmmm huge surprise that loads of people unsub, and now this.
Guess what CCP, if you lowered sub cost and kept this feature, many more people would have multiple accounts. This is going to prove counter productive. Expect growth to remain flat or even decline.
STUPID STUPID CCP. You really havnt thought about this. Eve is NOT like other games; people run multiple accounts and you need to account for this in your strategy. Youd be far better off encouraging more accounts than making one more expensive.
Lall - THE Vocal Minority - Reikoku
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freddy madball
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Posted - 2008.10.13 23:52:00 -
[164]
-1 account, but no whining or complaining ive decided i dont really need a miner/builder/hauler now because of this. My main will still remain active of course till the end. and it is fair enough, pay to play and all of that. no pay, no sp gains. ok i can get by with that, on my ONE main account.
ive decided that this is a blatant lie about game balance, on top of the gtc changes, and poor performance, as well as LACK OF ABILITY..OR DESIRE TO DO ANYTHING ABOUT ISK FARMERS who deplete game resources that real game players could certainly use instead.. because hey they pay for their accounts right? you pay lip service to being anti macro it seems, and if one were to really think about it with all of the things you have done recently to real players....you wont do anything to upset all those isk farmers in the ice belts will you? of course not, especially by looking at your current track record. They represent income.
and gtc sales for isk? how is that game balancing? other then balancing your pockets instead of isk farmers pockets?
the current upswing in people turning on long skills and ghost training ( a feature you have SOLD as part of the game in your own posts and threads) is probably completly in relation to the current global economic crisis.
At least be honest about your reasons, and not lie, because if it was about balance, there is a whole laundry list of things that were far more importan then this ghost training that should have been tackled.
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Avion Triux
Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2008.10.13 23:52:00 -
[165]
I cannot believe you're actually going to try and pass that liquid pile of shit you seem to think is an acceptable answer off on us.
This actually makes me feel quite ****ing stupid for paying for this shitty game for the last 3 years, I hoped my money wouldn't help turn what was once a company that cared about its customers and its public image into another faceless shitstain who cares for nothing more than their bottom line and will shit all over anyone to protect it
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LordSwift
INTERSTELLAR ENTERPRISE Final Retribution Alliance
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Posted - 2008.10.13 23:52:00 -
[166]
Originally by: Kif
Originally by: LordSwift
Originally by: Reihai -1 account here.
+ Isk and stuff here ---->
I hope you enjoy eves slow transformation into a generic Korean grind MMO
-1 account, and no you cant have the isk because its not subscribed and nor will it ever be again
EVE is already a Grind MMO. Instead of grinding XP to lvl up we Grind missions and kill npcs for isk. This enables us to LVL up buy buying skill books and better ships. So basically the same, just not bright colours and elves.
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Jack O'Connal
Minmatar The Graduates Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2008.10.13 23:52:00 -
[167]
At this point I'm not sure what I'm more angry about the loss of an advertised feature or the disrespect CCP is showing towards it's customers.
Originally by: http://www.eve-online.com/guide/en/g615.asp Skills continue training even if you are logged off or if your account is inactive (in the second scenario you can't change skill training, though).
QFT
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Shmak DatAsh
Di-Tron Heavy Industries Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2008.10.13 23:52:00 -
[168]
- 8 accts
Great job CCP!
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Zenst
Gallente Omniscient Order Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2008.10.13 23:53:00 -
[169]
"We truly hope that the community will understand our actions and continue to enjoy playing EVE as much as we enjoy making it.
Torfi Frans Olafsson
Senior Producer of EVE Online"
And how many pairs of shoes does your wife/Girlfriend own - and how many can she wear at once. Does she pay repair on those other shoes all the time or only the ones she wears. There endith the logic.
Personaly I've never done ghost training as only actualy ever owned one account, but two things here:
1) The change itself - poorly thought thru and technicaly I dare you to prove that it wont with this change actualy add more work to the database due to the extra event check of subscription now being in play - daily...
2) The timescale its being implemented. Given the rules of how to win friends and infulence people I can see you actualy read the mirror-version. Why not give 2 months notice upon this. If its like you said you slowly saw this comming (albiet 5 ruddy years).
So given point (2) if you were to say 2 months until actioned then your'd be ****in off alot less people, simply put. But thats called PR in Public Relations and not Prat Rants.
I feel for those in the armed forces who go away for long periods, this will generaly hit them more.
But seriously, very badly thought out and the reasons have more elequently been portraid too you already.
Lets face it its just because the UK goverment technically branded Iceland terroists - C'mon admit it :p.
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Avon
Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.10.13 23:53:00 -
[170]
Edited by: Avon on 13/10/2008 23:54:53 Edited by: Avon on 13/10/2008 23:54:36
Originally by: Aganola posting it again just to **** them off:
http://support.eve-online.com/Pages/KB/Article.aspx?id=167
excerpt: Quote: Quote: EVE has a unique approach to character advancement. Your account has the ability to train one character at a time no matter whether you're online or not, so if you start a training session before you go to sleep it will continue its advancement in real time while you are sleeping.
The first part is unrelated to this, and so using it only weakens your arguement. It relates to skills training on active accounts while you are offline.
Eve-Online: The Text Adventure |
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Mhaerdirne Solveig
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.10.13 23:53:00 -
[171]
Originally by: D4RT N3RDiUS "Skills continue training even if you are logged off or if your account is inactive (in the second scenario you can't change skill training, though)."
Bugs what.
Torfi Frans Olafsson
Senior Producer of EVE Online
LIER LIER LIER LIER LIER LIER...
THIS IS WY YOU GONA LOST A LOT OF COSTUMER BECOUSE THEY DONT BELIEVE IN YOU ANIMORE YOU ARE A BAG OF LIES AND AGAIN YOU REINFORCE THE FEELING BY EDITING ALL THE POST SAYING YOU GOT OWNED !!!
ANDA AGAIN! YOU GOT OWNED! IN YOUR GAME ! JAJAJAJAJAJJAJAAJAJJAAJAJJAAJJA
holy cow I thought I was a bad poster Signature removed. Text is showing as "Signature no longer available" and filesize is well in excess of the allowed 400 x 120 pixels. Navigator |
Dungar Loghoth
Caldari The Illuminati. Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2008.10.13 23:54:00 -
[172]
Originally by: Mhaerdirne Solveig
Originally by: D4RT N3RDiUS "Skills continue training even if you are logged off or if your account is inactive (in the second scenario you can't change skill training, though)."
Bugs what.
Torfi Frans Olafsson
Senior Producer of EVE Online
LIER LIER LIER LIER LIER LIER...
THIS IS WY YOU GONA LOST A LOT OF COSTUMER BECOUSE THEY DONT BELIEVE IN YOU ANIMORE YOU ARE A BAG OF LIES AND AGAIN YOU REINFORCE THE FEELING BY EDITING ALL THE POST SAYING YOU GOT OWNED !!!
ANDA AGAIN! YOU GOT OWNED! IN YOUR GAME ! JAJAJAJAJAJJAJAAJAJJAAJAJJAAJJA
holy cow I thought I was a bad poster
you are ---
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Duvaren
Amarr The Maverick Navy Pupule 'Ohana
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Posted - 2008.10.13 23:54:00 -
[173]
Originally by: Peter Greed The news about ghost training being removed hurt a bit, yeah. Fair enough though, All good things come to an end. However, the 'bug' explanation is outrageous.
Hey, maybe a 're-do'? When will that 're-do' statement be ready? I can write it for you:
************ Dear players,
We know the beloved ghost training nerf comes as a shock for most of you. It has really been enjoyable watching everyone e-suffer about it. We apologize about the 'bug' statement that was made earlier. The gentlemen had never heard an explanation, so he naturally assumed the 'ghost training' feature we have all been talking about for years was really something else entirely.
So, we need more income. We realize blunt force truth rarely works these days, but we got a memo today telling us that our playerbase wasn't full of hacks and asshats. Now, we've manned up and handled business. We only regret that we can't collect interest from the tears of all the e-tradgedy.
Thanks, we all hope you enjoy playing this MMO as much as we enjoy modeling ourselves like any great Sony MMO. -The Eve Fatcats
Greed sees Greed.
Amen brotha.
If CCP decides to allow multi-character training as compensation I might go for that though.
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Pbs
Pumpkin Scissors
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Posted - 2008.10.13 23:54:00 -
[174]
Originally by: Elmicker Edited by: Elmicker on 13/10/2008 23:51:56
Originally by: Inanna Zuni they just want to be paid for the service they provide! You work for free, right?)
Actually. Yes.
The vast majority of people who work in a professional capacity go far beyond their contractual requirements, to provide a better service to their customers.
CCP has advertised this as standard service for 5 years now, and suddenly we're a bunch of cheating thieves. It leaves a bitter taste.
I think we must write petition on Torfi Frans Olafsson - he is harassment all EVE community.
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Yakumo Smith
Gallente When Darkness Falls
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Posted - 2008.10.13 23:55:00 -
[175]
Originally by: GO MaZ QUICK GUYS POST A DAMAGE CONTROL BLOG THEY'RE ALL SO STUPID THEY WONT REALISE IT AND EVERYONE WILL FORGET IT IN 6 HOURS
How ****ing stupid do you have to be before you acquire a position of power at CCP, just outta curiosity? (I'm pretty stupid, I could probably be your Economist)
no no, you're misunderstanding, it's a "bug", we should thank CCP for fixing it and all head to bed dreaming of 500 Vs 500 fleet battles with no ghostie lag.
Actually...I can't even post sarcastically as it's just too damn rediculous..."We've researched for the last 5 years and discovered the cause of lag was ghosts"
Quick, call for Scoob and the gang.
I suppose this must be my sig. I'll do something cool with it eventually. |
QuarlSWE
Minmatar Bionic Dawn
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Posted - 2008.10.13 23:55:00 -
[176]
This is so much bullshit!
Why not nerf the players that cancel their accounts by simply make one-time-use-only "30" days gtc?
I only have one account and when my gtc's runs out im out off this game, eve isnt that good it worth paying 60bucks for getting a new kind of ship.
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LordSwift
INTERSTELLAR ENTERPRISE Final Retribution Alliance
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Posted - 2008.10.13 23:55:00 -
[177]
Originally by: Alekanderu
Originally by: LordSwift
Originally by: Chestnut Stallion -3 accounts
bye, all your stuff via contract to me. Thanks
why do you keep posting this? do you think you're making some kind of point?
ok ok il stop. i was just bored and enjoying the whine of the hour. Got a bit carried away. Il try to post constructivly. Anyway, most people will have a good whine and forget about it and still play on with their many accounts.
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NephI AsantE
Pandoras Military And Civilian Operations Group Raging Phoenix Alliance
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Posted - 2008.10.13 23:56:00 -
[178]
To all the people saying stupid stuff like...
"I'd like to see the numbers after all this settles out and see how many _really_ leave."
I'd say that what you need to compare is how many accounts do xfers soon, how many accounts go from having 1+ character to those that then have 0 characters (due to xfers or recycling all characters), how many subscribers the total goes down related to the previous two issues.
What CCP should see if all the people consolidate/close/quit as they claim will be an overall reduction in the number of accounts. Since we can't "close" our accounts the number of accounts claimed by CCP will remain unrealistically inflated (it helps them on sites that track number of accounts).
I will be consolidating, and I wish I could perm close the accounts that I have 0 characters on.
NephI AsantE |
ZW Dewitt
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Posted - 2008.10.13 23:56:00 -
[179]
Originally by: Dev Blog Now a single customer that doesn't log into the servers may not weigh heavily on our database infrastructure, just as a single snowflake isn't that heavy, hardly a measurable quantity. But it's hard not to notice an avalanche if it hits you. And that's what was starting to happen in our database.
Yet you don't notice the huge avalance of ISK sellers with random names who are CONSTANTLY making new trial accounts to spam their ads?
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Maconha
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Posted - 2008.10.13 23:56:00 -
[180]
Edited by: Maconha on 14/10/2008 00:03:35 this is how CCCP (ops it was only CCP hehehe) is going down
wacth it from the minute 3:10
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rERl4yoZhKs
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Wod
Gallente Fallen Pandas
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Posted - 2008.10.13 23:56:00 -
[181]
CCP IRL PIRATES, C/D
and I bet they are tasting sweet sweet tears right about now. - I like cookies |
Charly Quickfire
Warped Mining
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Posted - 2008.10.13 23:57:00 -
[182]
"We make a product, sell it, get salaries and then continue maintaining the product and making it better."
Very valid argument, but a) your PR is lacking heavily. Did noone think of the impact this would have and what feedback it generates? And now your damage control post states it as being an unintended feature even though it is in your own player guide? Damage control PR also lacking! and b) it is my assumption that this will rather decrease your revenue instead of increasing it (and as inactive accounts for sure dont cost you that much to maintain this will directly hit your bottom line).
Nevertheless, I hope to be proven wrong, because more money means more improvement for EVE. We'll see. |
LordSwift
INTERSTELLAR ENTERPRISE Final Retribution Alliance
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Posted - 2008.10.13 23:58:00 -
[183]
Originally by: Shmak DatAsh - 8 accts
Great job CCP!
You must be trolling. Why on earth would you have 8 accounts.
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GeekWarrior
Sinister Defiance
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Posted - 2008.10.13 23:58:00 -
[184]
Originally by: NephI AsantE
What CCP should see if all the people consolidate/close/quit as they claim will be an overall reduction in the number of accounts. Since we can't "close" our accounts the number of accounts claimed by CCP will remain unrealistically inflated (it helps them on sites that track number of accounts).
I will be consolidating, and I wish I could perm close the accounts that I have 0 characters on.
EXACTLY what I will be doing. 6 accounts to 3 is a start, maybe even further.
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Itoria
Winter's Legacy
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Posted - 2008.10.13 23:59:00 -
[185]
Sell this as a feature. Advertise on it. Throw those with lives, active service, families to attend, field trips to go on in courses, back to school, moving homes, skimming down the expendatures, a nice juicy bone to draw them back when they have the time and a few pennies to throw on their pasttimes. Give them a small egg of satisfaction when they come back from their real life trials to find something shiny has finished training.
Oh no wait, hang on, didn't we band-aid that 5 year's ago? Oh look, slap a stamp on it and call it a bug, anything to make the addicts of eve's relaxing gameplay shell out a few more precious pennies to line the pockets of a company rather than enjoy a small piece of coding.
Ooops.
Here's your sign. ~Ito~
Bite me |
DigitalCommunist
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Posted - 2008.10.14 00:00:00 -
[186]
Rofl.
49 page thread didn't need to be locked just because you guys posted a dev blog (something you should've done first, btw). After all, the dev blog is basically "get stuffed".
Is there some new tangent for us to discuss in this shiny clean thread?
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Saraah Leeown
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Posted - 2008.10.14 00:00:00 -
[187]
Great stuff, I play eve online, not "unsubscribed skill training online" Please make sure all RP etc is stopped on an unsubscribed account to thanks.
Bye bye deadwood
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Maconha
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Posted - 2008.10.14 00:00:00 -
[188]
Edited by: Maconha on 14/10/2008 00:03:12 the new simbol for ccp
http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n71/rammstein24/ak-47-cccp.jpg
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Avon
Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.10.14 00:00:00 -
[189]
Originally by: Cosy Ceaon http://go-dl1.eve-files.com/media/0810/isabug.jpg is a bug is a bug a buuuuuuuuuuuuug
No need to stretch the forums about it.
Eve-Online: The Text Adventure |
Pnuka
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.10.14 00:01:00 -
[190]
McCain/Palin '08
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King Geedorah
State War Academy
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Posted - 2008.10.14 00:01:00 -
[191]
I hear comparing two dates and setting a date when people start / stop a skill is SERIOUSLY database intensive, I mean if that won't bring down the RAMSANS what will?!
The fact you first try to pass this off as a bug, and then a known resource hog, and then the fact that you don't like people running multiple accounts on a limited budget, is just obscene.
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David Ironman
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Posted - 2008.10.14 00:01:00 -
[192]
So with the ghost training 'bug' history you're going to allow the queuing of skill training, right?
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DrJ Zoidberg
Association of Commonwealth Enterprises FOUNDATI0N
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Posted - 2008.10.14 00:01:00 -
[193]
This is bull. What load does an inactive subscription put on your servers or database? All it has to do is basically run a timer....you can't log in, and you can't do anything, so you're basically not using up ANY resources, which is what I'm paying for when I'm actively subscribed. I can't imagine that any amount of Ghost Trainers put any significant load on your database. LIES, all of it.
-1 account
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britishfish
Minmatar Aggressive Tendencies Veritas Immortalis
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Posted - 2008.10.14 00:02:00 -
[194]
hmmm well what with the way cash is these days i think i will be going on extended leave for a long time. never thought i would see the day but
-3
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Sam Neill
Gallente Biotronics Inc. Alternative Realities
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Posted - 2008.10.14 00:02:00 -
[195]
Originally by: Col Carter Well, I should slap myself for having a read on these forums, bumping into this amazing example of product marketing and raising an eyebrow or two. And this blog is an even greater insult to intelligence.
EVE's a pretty mature game these days, one where even if some of the old crowd are gone there is a visible continuation of care for the game, and not just for the product. Over the years we have seen some amazing marketing hickups, which is normal in any company, but this is getting to a point where the trend of care is taking a nosedive.
Not so much because of the dynamics of this change, though any virtual product marketeer can name a few dozen hands on examples of the high value of nurturing product bonuses beyond the basic attributes, but because of the methods involved and the rapid succession of several other critical changes.
I've spent the last 3 weeks travelling between my own country, the UK and iceland, after having been asked to come of retirement to assist as a financial auditor and advisor, and regardless of the difference in markets and niches I am a bit shocked to observe the same schools of marketing and financial prospect management which are visible in what was once this wonderful EVE as in the recently "traditional" but oh so dangerous schools of economic thought outside of this particular virtual market.
Combined with the GTC product changes, and now tapping into the value elements of the product "EVE", it's a pretty neat case of how a school of thought can initiate a grand move in the wrong direction. Almost funny, when the GTC changes were announced I predicted folks this very change, and even though personally ghost training or its absence makes little difference to me, the manner and form of the change - once more - confirms the trend of the past 11 months.
Long term product streamlining is one thing, separating the product from the subscriber is perhaps a means of crowd control, but it is a method ill suited for long term continuation of a product where the product and the subscriber cannot be seperated from a marketing perspective.
In earlier days the same attempt to remove ghost training was made, a long time ago now. A time where it would have been possible, in contrast to these days where the bonus value elements of a virtual subscription product are so essential to make the product itself both stand out as well as keep the subscribers at an extremely low treshold to always come back.
I can see the financial prospects, such projections are not too difficult nor is the reasoning behind it. I can also see the short term view, as well as the long term view, and I think CCP is very wise to not explore those two topics too much and instead take it on in a step by step fashion.
But these and coming changes will make EVE a game among a sea of others, without the low tresholds that lets people come back, without the foundation for trust of subscribers in the product they come to adore and appreciate alike over time, and the company making that experience in the same breath.
This is hardly a change made because of a distorted view of equality or balance, providing that as an argument is an insult to the intelligence of any subscriber with a little bit of economics education I must admit. In financial terms this will not damage CCP, far from, it will be another step to a changed service model, unfortunately just not the type of service model which people value so much. But a model far more in tune with the rest of the industry, away from the EVE as it is in many, many aspects.
signed
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Kif
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.10.14 00:02:00 -
[196]
Originally by: LordSwift
Originally by: Kif
Originally by: LordSwift
Originally by: Reihai -1 account here.
+ Isk and stuff here ---->
I hope you enjoy eves slow transformation into a generic Korean grind MMO
-1 account, and no you cant have the isk because its not subscribed and nor will it ever be again
EVE is already a Grind MMO. Instead of grinding XP to lvl up we Grind missions and kill npcs for isk. This enables us to LVL up buy buying skill books and better ships. So basically the same, just not bright colours and elves.
Eve is a grind MMO for you because you choose for it to be one. For the people who actually choose to explore the depth of eve and enjoy this game beyond grinding missions in jita, this coupled with the GTC changes is a huge punch in the face.
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DigitalCommunist
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Posted - 2008.10.14 00:03:00 -
[197]
Originally by: Saraah Leeown Great stuff, I play eve online, not "unsubscribed skill training online" Please make sure all RP etc is stopped on an unsubscribed account to thanks.
Bye bye deadwood
End yourself.
Preferably via: ingested bleach, starving tiger sharks, sex with madeline albright.
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Carsidava
Ars ex Discordia GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.10.14 00:03:00 -
[198]
23 pages until we get a CCP response. |
AzzKickinFreakShow
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Posted - 2008.10.14 00:04:00 -
[199]
Edited by: AzzKickinFreakShow on 14/10/2008 00:04:38 "But recently we have seen a surge in this behavior in a way that we were essentially supporting and maintaining a large number of customers that weren't paying us regular subscriptions."
I apologize to all... this is my fault!!! I'll explain...
I have 9 accounts, and I was paying them with ISK to buy GTC's.. when CCP had their last brain fart, it pushed my monthly requirement from 950 mil isk per month(133 mil per month x3 months for a 90 day GTC per acct, which I need 7 of... the other 2 I pay cash)for my game enjoyment (no, im not a farmer, I am diverse and have 21 research alts ) to 1.75 bil per month (250 mil per month x2 months for a 60 day GTC per acct, which I STILL need 7 of...) it's just simply not possible for me to have any kind of ENJOYABLE GAME PLAY, when I have to work so hard to make the isk I need, JUST TO KEEP MY ACCTS ACTIVE!!. It would be incredibly ******ED to pay $15 USD per month, per acct, x9 (a total of $135 USD) to play this game!! Therefore, I let 7 of my accts go inactive, and left them training a longer skill!!!!
I admit, it's a fantastic game, but it's just not worth it to me to pay that much on a monthly basis. I truly apologize to all of you who enjoy this game, and think it is as wonderful as I do... I just simply could not afford to work that hard on making isk, to keep my accts active!!! I know, it has caused a major uproar in the community, and for that, I am eternally shamed.
IF YOU CAN FIND NO SARCASM IN THE ABOVE STATEMENTS, YOUR A COMPLETE AND UTTER MORON, (OR MAYBE YOUR A MEMBER OF CCP)AND DESERVE TO BE BURIED UP TO YOUR HEADS WITHIN THE VACINITY OF 1,000 RED ANT HILLS IN THE MIDDLE OF A RAINFOREST!!
Disclaimer: The preceding statement inferring the necessity of extreme bodily harm was laid out for entertainment purposes only. The maker of such claims does not intend bodily harm, ill will, or ill fated luck upon any reader henceforth. In fact, the preceding "Reply to topic" was made in absolute jest, and must be looked upon soley as the complete waste of time that it actually was. In the immortal words of Frank Bartles and Ed Jaymes (played by David Joseph Rufkahr and **** Maugg, respectively)in those old Bartles and James wine cooler commercials created by Hal Riney, which ran from 1984 to 1991. "Thank you, for your support"
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Cosy Ceaon
Gallente Aliastra
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Posted - 2008.10.14 00:04:00 -
[200]
Originally by: Avon
Originally by: Cosy Ceaon http://go-dl1.eve-files.com/media/0810/isabug.jpg is a bug is a bug a buuuuuuuuuuuuug
No need to stretch the forums about it.
done Edited by: Cosy Ceaon on 14/10/2008 00:03:13
is a |
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Avon
Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.10.14 00:04:00 -
[201]
Originally by: DigitalCommunist
Originally by: Saraah Leeown Great stuff, I play eve online, not "unsubscribed skill training online" Please make sure all RP etc is stopped on an unsubscribed account to thanks.
Bye bye deadwood
End yourself.
Preferably via: ingested bleach, starving tiger sharks, sex with madeline albright.
Actually, he is right tbh. Why should people be able to gain RP, and thus ISK on accounts that they aren't paying for?
Eve-Online: The Text Adventure |
Aganola
Amarr Hungarian Riflemen Regiment
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Posted - 2008.10.14 00:04:00 -
[202]
Originally by: DigitalCommunist Rofl.
49 page thread didn't need to be locked just because you guys posted a dev blog (something you should've done first, btw). After all, the dev blog is basically "get stuffed".
Is there some new tangent for us to discuss in this shiny clean thread?
just this: OFFICIAL dev blog:
Quote: Ghost Training was an unintended feature where unpaid accounts of EVE Online were able to continue training skills. While this allowed players to run multiple characters on a shoestring budget, in all effect, this was a bug.
EVEN MORE OFFICIAL PLAYER GUIDE:
source: http://www.eve-online.com/guide/en/g615.asp
scroll down a bit you'll find it just below the two blue tables ----------------------------------------------- "I do not belive in reicarnation... I didn't believed in it in my previous lives either..."
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Emrys Ap'Morgravaine
Caldari Caercamel Corporate Interdictions
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Posted - 2008.10.14 00:05:00 -
[203]
Having been debating the power of 2 offer for the last week or so, I'd decided whilst out earlier for some birthday drinks (yeah, great timing there CCP, cheers...) that I'd take up the offer and get a second account on the go...
So as I'm doing so, one of my corpies points out the change to me, now having just read through both the forum threads (with the power of 2 window open in the background)
Stuff it CCP - you aint getting the cash for that second account...
Em.
(posting in both threads... just in case CCP devs missed it the first time dammit) -=-=-=-=- Reformed Carebear.
Much bear, zero care. -=-=-=-=- |
DigitalCommunist
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Posted - 2008.10.14 00:05:00 -
[204]
Oh hey, you guys are going to stop OFFLINE RESEARCH POINT ACCUMULATION too, right?
Cause that one affects game balance far more. RIGHT?
Of course it wouldn't get you any extra revenue, but that's beside the point! We must balance~! and balance hard!
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Hammeroffire
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Posted - 2008.10.14 00:06:00 -
[205]
You could say that people took advantage of this "bug". It dramatically increased the utility of the service of this game as it allowed people to come back to the game after breaks [forced by work, military, family, ect] and have an incentive to go to the game as you had a new toy to play with.
Removing it is not fair.
Sure, we "took advantage" of this bug for a total of five years. Guess what? that means 5 years of players are now at a godly-level advantage over the rest of the players.
When a "bug" persists THIS long, it becomes a common strategy of the game.
You said you made an implimentation and goofed up, intending it to occur in china, and when we saw it we were outraged.
Similarly today, you suddenly consider this a bug!? It's not as if you never knew about it, You did it in china.
Your reasoning behind calling it a "Bug" is a false claim for these reasons.
Does this really cost you that much? We would like to see a chart, a graph, SOMETHING that shows us how this costs you money, and how much.
The thing that REALLY ****es people off here is that the way you impliment these "skills" involves NO real work, simply WAITING for seconds/minuites/hours/days/months. Because there is no physical "Work" involved, your PAST reasoning was worthless, and your current reasoning is similarly invalid.
Everyone lost trust, faith, and respect in you. You are making up excuses to make us pay money we did not pay before. This has already resulted in the loss of subscriptions. Your false claims result in more losses. Just give in to our demands, and no more money gets hurt, alright?
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Lethreas Lashnda
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Posted - 2008.10.14 00:06:00 -
[206]
WE WANT THEN CHANCE FOR LEARN ALL OF 3 CHARACHTERS WHAT EXIST ON OUR ACCOUNT, NOT JUST ONE OF THEM. THIS IS A BUG TOO!!!!!
WE CANT LEARN JUST ONE OF THEM. FIX IT!!!!!!
good night
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D4RT N3RDiUS
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Posted - 2008.10.14 00:06:00 -
[207]
CMON CCP GIVE US ONE STRAIGTH ANSWER!!! OH WAIT YOU DID IT AND FAAAAAAAAAAAIIIIIIILLLLLLLL
I THING SOME PPL GONA GET FIRED.. and is not becouse of your lies is becouse you have a lot of angry customers who quit and you need to pay the bills..
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Jonathan Peterbilt
Caldari Wyland-Yutani Corporation
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Posted - 2008.10.14 00:06:00 -
[208]
It's about the time you fix this. People that don't pay the game, should not be able to train skills (skill training being the part of playing the game).
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Trinneth
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Posted - 2008.10.14 00:06:00 -
[209]
I honestly viewed this as a feature, it's not one I've ever used, but I liked that it was there, and when the time comes for me to take a break from EVE it would have made it significantly more likely that I'd return.
I can think of three obvious reasons why you'd see a surge in players cancelling their accounts and then resubscribing - the first is that you actively encourage players to run several accounts in a way that no other MMO does (power of two, Capitals needing a second character just to move systems...) the other two are Conan and Warhammer - people went away to try the flavour of the month, then when they got tired of it they returned.
I'm not wild about the way this was announced either - the balance claim was a fairly obvious red herring, but you could have easily avoided almost all of this reaction if you'd announced skill queues were going to be implemented at the same time - that way this could have been a footnote, you'd have been taking, but giving back more.
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Duvaren
Amarr The Maverick Navy Pupule 'Ohana
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Posted - 2008.10.14 00:07:00 -
[210]
Originally by: Charly Quickfire 3 chars per account is deeply wrong as well. Allowing only one char per account should tripple CCP's revenue.
Especially since we can only train a single character at a time per account.
If CCP is going to remove this so-called bug (yes CCP you were caught lying ) I want to be able to train all three characters at the same time on the same account.
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DigitalCommunist
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Posted - 2008.10.14 00:07:00 -
[211]
Edited by: DigitalCommunist on 14/10/2008 00:07:37
Originally by: Avon Actually, he is right tbh. Why should people be able to gain RP, and thus ISK on accounts that they aren't paying for?
I was flaming him for the first reason, see my post above. I'm all for removing passive RP gain. To summarize my expoert position: FUK DIS AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
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elohllird
Destructive Influence Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.10.14 00:08:00 -
[212]
Originally by: airdefense Sounds good to me.. Will this extra money help you fix your ****ing game?
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airdefense
Caldari H A V O C Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2008.10.14 00:08:00 -
[213]
Sounds good to me.. Will this extra money help you fix your ****ing game?
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Chirinako
Caldari H A V O C Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2008.10.14 00:08:00 -
[214]
I'm now beginning to realise why Iceland is bankrupt.
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miss cjBishop155
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Posted - 2008.10.14 00:08:00 -
[215]
This is a bad dicision, and is only going to antaganise the play base.
dont give me that lag rubish, i know as well as you do, theres no overhead to keep a skill training while offline.
this is not a bug, it was changed so that goast training stoped before accidenly in a prevous patch, and was subsiqently changed back to allowing goast training.
the bottom line is, ccp ran out of money, and are wondering how to squize the last big of RL money from people who allready at the limit of how many accounts there prepaird to pay for.
this is a bad change, does it effect me, yes. while i keep more accounts active because of it, no. do what everyone else is doeing, sack some staff, but dont **** on the people who got you to were you are now.
Haveing goast training encouraged people who left eve for abit, to come back, when eve-mon reminded them a month latter that there skill had finished (i know, its happend to me). now people wile nolonger get that reminder, it will just remind them how much time theyve lost, and subsiqently not come back to eve.
so yer, stupid idea ccp.
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LuthienTinuviel
The Vanyar
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Posted - 2008.10.14 00:08:00 -
[216]
Quote: We can look at this from a variety of angles, but it all comes down to:
1. There was a way to progress a character in EVE without an active subscription 2. CCP noticed a surge in the trend and decided to fix the leak 3. Players now have to pay a subscription for characters to have them progress
We truly hope that the community will understand our actions and continue to enjoy playing EVE as much as we enjoy making it.
Torfi Frans Olafsson
Senior Producer of EVE Online
Should really read
Quote: We can look at this from a variety of angles, but it all comes down to:
1. The world economy is ****ed atm Iceland being hit very hard 2. CCP noticed a surge in players unsubbing due to this 3. Players now have to bail out CCP for an alleged 5 y/o bug (lol) and you want more of our iskies
We truly hope that the community will bend over and take one for the time while we have a good old laugh at those players that do behind there backs.
Torfi Frans Olafsson
Senior Producer of EVE Online
Oh and yes my other account will not be resubbed and this one is not going to be resubbed gg CCP you had a good game till you decided to start royally ****ing over your member base.
CCP - You are now entering the twilight zone where bugs are features and features are bugs |
Alekanderu
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.10.14 00:08:00 -
[217]
Originally by: Hammeroffire You could say that people took advantage of this "bug". It dramatically increased the utility of the service of this game as it allowed people to come back to the game after breaks [forced by work, military, family, ect] and have an incentive to go to the game as you had a new toy to play with.
Removing it is not fair.
Sure, we "took advantage" of this bug for a total of five years. Guess what? that means 5 years of players are now at a godly-level advantage over the rest of the players.
When a "bug" persists THIS long, it becomes a common strategy of the game.
You said you made an implimentation and goofed up, intending it to occur in china, and when we saw it we were outraged.
Similarly today, you suddenly consider this a bug!? It's not as if you never knew about it, You did it in china.
Your reasoning behind calling it a "Bug" is a false claim for these reasons.
Does this really cost you that much? We would like to see a chart, a graph, SOMETHING that shows us how this costs you money, and how much.
The thing that REALLY ****es people off here is that the way you impliment these "skills" involves NO real work, simply WAITING for seconds/minuites/hours/days/months. Because there is no physical "Work" involved, your PAST reasoning was worthless, and your current reasoning is similarly invalid.
Everyone lost trust, faith, and respect in you. You are making up excuses to make us pay money we did not pay before. This has already resulted in the loss of subscriptions. Your false claims result in more losses. Just give in to our demands, and no more money gets hurt, alright?
all of this is totally irrelevant because it wasn't even a bug, it was an intended feature despite what ccp is trying to claim now
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Peter Greed
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Posted - 2008.10.14 00:08:00 -
[218]
Originally by: DigitalCommunist Oh hey, you guys are going to stop OFFLINE RESEARCH POINT ACCUMULATION too, right?
Cause that one affects game balance far more. RIGHT?
Of course it wouldn't get you any extra revenue, but that's beside the point! We must balance~! and balance hard!
WINNAR
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Dungar Loghoth
Caldari The Illuminati. Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2008.10.14 00:08:00 -
[219]
Originally by: Avon Why should people be able to gain RP, and thus ISK on accounts that they aren't paying for?
You keep up all this good posting, Avon, and you're going to find yourself in OSHIT soon. ---
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Idara
Caldari Failure Corp
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Posted - 2008.10.14 00:09:00 -
[220]
New sig pimpage.
SHC 4tw.
Also: way to lock the other thread. --- Failure Corp [FAILD] - Failing to fail first
in EVE - Idara |
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Yakumo Smith
Gallente When Darkness Falls
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Posted - 2008.10.14 00:09:00 -
[221]
In your locked thread I posted that you'd given me 2 causes to worry about the long term prospects of this game...thanks for giving me a third so quickly.
I've wasted 2 years building up slowly and planning for a future I no longer have confidence in.
Time to get my moneies worth before it all goes pete tong.
I suppose this must be my sig. I'll do something cool with it eventually. |
Kylar Renpurs
Dusk Blade
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 00:09:00 -
[222]
Quote: Ghost Training was an unintended feature where unpaid accounts of EVE Online were able to continue training skills. While this allowed players to run multiple characters on a shoestring budget, in all effect, this was a bug.
This. Nothing more.
Improve Market Competition! |
Avon
Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 00:09:00 -
[223]
Originally by: DigitalCommunist Edited by: DigitalCommunist on 14/10/2008 00:07:37
Originally by: Avon Actually, he is right tbh. Why should people be able to gain RP, and thus ISK on accounts that they aren't paying for?
I was flaming him for the first reason, see my post above. I'm all for removing passive RP gain. To summarize my expoert position: FUK DIS AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
Oh, fairy snuff.
Personally I am happy for inactive to mean exactly that. I just think CCP are doing a terrible job of selling it.
Eve-Online: The Text Adventure |
Poast Warrior
Imperial Academy
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 00:09:00 -
[224]
I needs some stuff, send me.
Originally by: Kiay Stryx
Your an idiot.
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Chestnut Stallion
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 00:10:00 -
[225]
3 accounts allread, Mine, my Wife's and my Alt, I was considering getting a power of two thing, last week to start up another account so I could train another one, then let it lapse, and just rotate all 4 accounts and stuff
THANK GOD I DIDN'T GET ANOTHER ACCOUNT. now that I can't train for 6 months then let it lapse for one or so month...
damn saved myself 49 bucks there, oh thats still -3 and +1 makes 4.
All my stuff is allready given to the corpmates dont ask for it.
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Chalrynn Illyndar
Lightspeed Enterprises Burning Horizons
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Posted - 2008.10.14 00:11:00 -
[226]
Research points should be disabled aswell then since they can be farmed up on inactive accounts. Market orders and contracts should also be removed since they can be used to further a character while an account is inactive.
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Zinnn
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 00:11:00 -
[227]
Why not just add queue-skill training as an option for subscribed people (say max 3 skills in queue), and then for people who have expired accounts, it only finishes the current skill? Seriously I think this is a better idea. Think about this. You make people happy, people still get their skills, and those skills are used to shoot people. What do people do? they buy isk - legally or illegally. Consider that half of these people that buy isk buy it legitimately (and at this point there's no real incentive to try to cheat the system). Now consider the price of timecards. That means extra income and actually less shadow accounts. Maybe you should get your economist back into the game and pay attention to these eventualities. But I"m sure my comments will be lost in the torrent of angry posters... Hope this gets through.. THINK ABOUT IT PEOPLE. CCP PLEASE CONSIDER THIS IDEA AS A FEATURE AND NOT A NERF. IT STILL PROVIDES INCENTIVES TO PEOPLE TO CONTINUE USING THEIR ACCOUNTS AND USE LESS TIME.
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Aganola
Amarr Hungarian Riflemen Regiment
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Posted - 2008.10.14 00:11:00 -
[228]
Originally by: Idara New sig pimpage.
SHC 4tw.
Also: way to lock the other thread.
geez it's my image!! cool! ----------------------------------------------- "I do not belive in reicarnation... I didn't believed in it in my previous lives either..."
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Sanadis
Gallente Sphere Industries Combined Planetary Union
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Posted - 2008.10.14 00:12:00 -
[229]
That's right CCP, show your real colors, keep deleting our posts that display the truth.
Edited by: Sanadis on 13/10/2008 23:59:48 I say good riddens to ghost training.
Even if this was promoted as a feature, it really is not a good one to the people who pay for the same thing someone else is getting while ghost training. I always keep my accounts active, no matter what. Losing a little skill training here and there is fine, but I actually PLAY the game while paying for it. It is only fair that ghost training is removed, because you should not get something that you are not paying for.
----------EDIT---------- BUT what is not fair is that you are lieing to us CCP, and I am disappointed!
http://www.webng.com/sanadis/pictures/lies.jpg
You have been promoting this "Bug" as a "Feature" up until now. Tell us the real reason behind its removal CCP!
Come on, someone quote me on this and see if they delete it
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Fred Ayurveda
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Posted - 2008.10.14 00:13:00 -
[230]
So what I'm wondering is, are these dunderheads CCP alts, or are they not reading the player guide where it says that it's a feature (and CCP is lying) and NOT a bug?
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Rramar Claime
Amarr Task Force Zener Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2008.10.14 00:13:00 -
[231]
CCP you epicly fail with this stupid idea . All you did is anger your community AGAIN and pretty much saved your wallet from a lot of accounts reactivating. You fail you fail you fail and i just fu**n don't understand why you guys up in the north dont have at least as much common sense to realise how many accounts you lost with this... WE did not get ganked by inactive alt blobs, WE did not get lag from inactive alts they did not scam anyone and they were not exploiting any unallowed features! The quotes like wth ccp was sold to SOE or EA perfectly describe what youre doing lately and what your future will be. Sure 1 year with 200,000 subscribers but only as long as youre in a monopol position with no other similar space mmos around. Absolutely no reason for this change, only bla bla from your own devs who can't explain it themselves. You are continously ruining the ideas that made this game so good.
If you continue with stupid decisions like this without setting PROPER priorities finally, you will end up just as SOE did at the second you get any competition on this market segment. People playing eve are not 8yr old wow players, you cannot do this sh*t to them for too long...
"I cherish the memories of a question my grandson asked me the other day, when he said; 'Grandpa, were you a hero in the war?' Grandpa said, 'No, but I served in a company of heroes." |
Avon
Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.10.14 00:13:00 -
[232]
Originally by: Aganola
Originally by: Idara New sig pimpage.
SHC 4tw.
Also: way to lock the other thread.
geez it's my image!! cool!
Unfortunately it is too big and breaks the forum rules.
Eve-Online: The Text Adventure |
Malcanis
RuffRyders Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2008.10.14 00:14:00 -
[233]
Originally by: ZW Dewitt
Originally by: Dev Blog Now a single customer that doesn't log into the servers may not weigh heavily on our database infrastructure, just as a single snowflake isn't that heavy, hardly a measurable quantity. But it's hard not to notice an avalanche if it hits you. And that's what was starting to happen in our database.
Yet you don't notice the huge avalance of ISK sellers with random names who are CONSTANTLY making new trial accounts to spam their ads?
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IR Scoutar
Caldari State War Academy
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Posted - 2008.10.14 00:14:00 -
[234]
Originally by: torfi
We truly hope that the community will understand our actions and continue to enjoy playing EVE as much as we enjoy making it.
NO
because you (ccp) is lieing to our faces with a smile enjoy 1 less alt subscription
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Supay
Caldari The Littlest Hobos Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2008.10.14 00:14:00 -
[235]
So, you'll be banning sale of GTCs for isk from now on, I assume?
As you have stated that:
Quote: That's not fair towards CCP as a service provider and it's not fair towards other players that pay a subscription but don't make use of this bug.
Some corporate rubbish
Quote: This practice upsets the balance of the game, and capsuleers who actively put their time and energy into working on their characters will no longer be unfairly affected by those few who have not.
First Dev post
The balance of the game is upset by people using their real life cash to buy GTCs and sell them ingame for isk. They do NOT actively put their time and energy into working on their characters and I am unfairly affected because I do not make use of this. .
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FireAnt
Caldari Wings of the Storm
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Posted - 2008.10.14 00:15:00 -
[236]
I dont really have a problem with it other than they say it was a bug. Dont lie to us. One thing that might have been overlooked is alot more people would play this game if you took the money that you made and added better content and fixed LAG!!! Good thing people will be quiting over this as the server cannot handle the light load it has now with ghost accounts. In a weak economy you dont punish your income providers, you make you make the product you have better. This hurts your income provider and doesnt really make your product better.
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DigitalCommunist
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Posted - 2008.10.14 00:15:00 -
[237]
Originally by: Avon
Originally by: DigitalCommunist Edited by: DigitalCommunist on 14/10/2008 00:07:37
Originally by: Avon Actually, he is right tbh. Why should people be able to gain RP, and thus ISK on accounts that they aren't paying for?
I was flaming him for the first reason, see my post above. I'm all for removing passive RP gain. To summarize my expoert position: FUK DIS AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
Oh, fairy snuff.
Personally I am happy for inactive to mean exactly that. I just think CCP are doing a terrible job of selling it.
I'm secretly all for this (five years ago, and) because it no longer affects me but HOLY SHIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIT talk about trying to pull a fast one with balatant lies. Apparently they don't mind shafting thousands of players who aren't going to see this in 48 hours, but they pull the "we need three years to consider this gameplay change and its effect on the playerbase" card whenever they have tough decisions to make. They also justify a lot of stupid changes that make EVE softer for the sake of the casual players, but all this does is make skill training less casual, proving that casual players can suck it just as hard when there's money involved words words angeranger
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Kylar Renpurs
Dusk Blade
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Posted - 2008.10.14 00:15:00 -
[238]
Quote:
You have been promoting this "Bug" as a "Feature" up until now. Tell us the real reason behind its removal CCP!
Fact is it's not said it's a bug or a feature.
When I develop software, if I don't tell users "If you click this button, then resize the page it upfks the UI" I get barraged with emails saying "Hey, did you know if you do this, it messes things up".
So when I inform them in the software documentation "If you do this, it causes a UI glitch" it's not a 'feature'.
Improve Market Competition! |
Letouk Mernel
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 00:15:00 -
[239]
Doubt you'll see this in all the spam, but how exactly does this work? Could you please give an example of a character who's training Battleship 5 for another 30 days and his subscription will expire in 10 days?
And another example with a character whose subscription has already expired, 5 days ago?
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chotaire
Caldari The Rising Stars Cosmic Anomalies
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Posted - 2008.10.14 00:15:00 -
[240]
Fictionary Dev Blog Post from ccp whoever:
Dear players, due to recent financing issues related to national problems we had to decide to disable ghost training for a limited amount of time. Due to our local banks unable to give us the necessary loans to expand our network and hire more programmers to implement the features you people desire, we saw no other chance doing so.
But please be asured this is only a temporary change, as we will rethink our priority list and reward everyone of you with a great new feature in return to be implemented before christmas:
Skill queueing goes in effect with the next major patch in the second week of December, at the same time ghost training will be back available to everyone. However skill queueing will only work if you have an active subscription.
We sincelery hope you understand this decision as we are forced to refinance immediate investments necessary to implement new features that CSM has requested to see available soon, as much as improving our network, hardware and database concept to cope with lag on fleet battles.
Furthermore, we will bring back 30 day time codes sometime next year. We hope this is a good compromise for all of us and we are looking forward to your feedback to discuss this matter before it goes into effect sometime soon.
Best Regards CCP whoever
If you guys had come up with something similar than this, I would not only have said "thumbs up", I would also have resubscribed my currently ghost training alts weeks before they be finished with their skills in order to support your company. The way you enforce this change is so untrustworthy and short-planned, that I can only say, epic fail.
Regarding your dev blog, I have some more stuff to add aswell. Let's go into theory. We do have an evil person who does nothing else than ghost training for a whole year. Especially during the first years, there are probably no skills that take much longer than 50 days. So theoretically, instead of paying 6 subscriptions, someone does only pay 4 subscriptions the first year. During the inactive period of those subscriptions, the database entry does not see much change except of a timer script adding skillpoints to a single skill (and single character). Are you telling me that 4 out of 6 subscriptions are not worth calculating and changing one database entry during inactive times? I believe each and every datacenter out there with a DB cluster would happily receive such subscription fees for regularly committing such a simple function - and while talking about that, why not committing this function only ONCE - when the account gets reactivated? That means, inactive subscriptions will skill appropiately, just that API doesnt show the progress while the account is inactive. Wow, one db update per paying customer, no matter how long they skill, that's a damn huge DB load and ffs am I getting ironic? Then again this is all bullsh*t, because there is way more updates to the DB while someone is inactive. Say market skills change while someone is selling items while being inactive, or the corporation of the ghost trainer in question changes the alliance, contracts get finished, items sold, insurances expiring etc..etc... That's a damn huge load of db updates for offline people. So much more than skill updates. How come this is not a problem? I see incredible epic fail in this announcement!! Skills (if db functions get optimized for inactive subscriptions) can't have as much of an impact to the db like any other offline action. We are obviously being fooled, database programmers speak out loud!
CCP says that inactive customers still need to be supported. Are we talking inactive customers who pay 2-5 of 6 possible subscriptions? Would these customers exist if there was no ghost training? Recalculate, something is wrong here.
Last but not least, the "bug" you have been referring to is not a bug, it is a feature, as found in the player guide.
I feel betrayed. chotaire
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Novantco
Gallente The Tuskers
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Posted - 2008.10.14 00:15:00 -
[241]
Funny how CCP has just been running "The power of 2" promotion, which ended only days ago. So quite a few people including my self probably got another account. They then just days afterwards announce this, funny timing eh?
But you have to make money you're a business after all. So steps must be taken to insure that which is more then fair enough. Except you already force people to buy a second account for any sort of alt that you wish to train properly otherwise you gimp your main. You then go and do this making people pay EVEN more money! I mean come on CCP thatÆs just plain greedy, you barely gave any warning of this and are now expecting the bucks to come rolling in when people reactivate accounts.
But I doubt that will happen and you probably end up with more of a loss in revenue then a gain. So then what up the sub fees? I'm glad I didn't get more then one other account so this doesn't really affect me at the moment. But it sure is a kick in the face to people with multiple accounts.
Oh and lmfao at what it say's in the player guide as Avon tracked down. Is this the person who is charge of these big decisions? I think so!
Originally by: Avon Hey, your bug...
Skills continue training even if you are logged off or if your account is inactive
I found it in the player guide.
You guys better get in there and ninja-edit it.
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Malcanis
RuffRyders Axiom Empire
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 00:15:00 -
[242]
Originally by: Sanadis That's right CCP, show your real colors, keep deleting our posts that display the truth.
Edited by: Sanadis on 13/10/2008 23:59:48 I say good riddens to ghost training.
Even if this was promoted as a feature, it really is not a good one to the people who pay for the same thing someone else is getting while ghost training. I always keep my accounts active, no matter what. Losing a little skill training here and there is fine, but I actually PLAY the game while paying for it. It is only fair that ghost training is removed, because you should not get something that you are not paying for.
----------EDIT---------- BUT what is not fair is that you are lieing to us CCP, and I am disappointed!
http://www.webng.com/sanadis/pictures/lies.jpg
You have been promoting this "Bug" as a "Feature" up until now. Tell us the real reason behind its removal CCP!
Come on, someone quote me on this and see if they delete it
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BlackDeej
Aquila Astralis
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 00:16:00 -
[243]
Originally by: Sanadis That's right CCP, show your real colors, keep deleting our posts that display the truth.
Edited by: Sanadis on 13/10/2008 23:59:48 I say good riddens to ghost training.
Even if this was promoted as a feature, it really is not a good one to the people who pay for the same thing someone else is getting while ghost training. I always keep my accounts active, no matter what. Losing a little skill training here and there is fine, but I actually PLAY the game while paying for it. It is only fair that ghost training is removed, because you should not get something that you are not paying for.
----------EDIT---------- BUT what is not fair is that you are lieing to us CCP, and I am disappointed! CCP Lies
You have been promoting this "Bug" as a "Feature" up until now. Tell us the real reason behind its removal CCP!
Come on, someone quote me on this and see if they delete it
Quoted. And btw CCP deleting peoples posts is NOT gonna make this go away !!!
Quote: Light is faster than sound, this is why some people appear bright until they speak.
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Jaxxon Voers
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 00:16:00 -
[244]
Originally by: DigitalCommunist
Originally by: Saraah Leeown Great stuff, I play eve online, not "unsubscribed skill training online" Please make sure all RP etc is stopped on an unsubscribed account to thanks.
Bye bye deadwood
End yourself.
Preferably via: ingested bleach, starving tiger sharks, sex with madeline albright.
Albright? You sick, twisted monster.
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Harik A'ttar
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 00:16:00 -
[245]
I still think skill training is way too easy. We shouldn't just "train" by clicking a skill and waiting. I'm sure others agree - you should earn skillpoints by blowing up rats or running missions.
It's such a worthless feature and that's why no other online game does it. The only "special snowflake" here is EVE.
In serious news, allow me to thank you. When my account lapses I'll have a lot less reason to renew. No new ship to fly when I get back, no T2 weapons, nothing exciting and new. My last few resubs were due to "hey I wonder if HACs are fun." and "Cool I can go for capitals now."
Oh, and it's one less way for me to entice people to play, too. "Hey, if you get bored of the game, train towards something that looks fun and come back in a few months." Which probably means less of my friends will come back... which is even less reason to resub.
I mean, it's not like you didn't see this coming. I remember when you implemented this idiocy on the Chinese server and had to post a devblog explaining that it did NOT affect Tranquility.
P.S. thanks for the post saying "CCP Database developers are complete idiots." because if you implemented skill training as any kind of active process that takes any resources at all, well... That takes a really Special Snowflake of it's own.
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Fitz VonHeise
The New Order.
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 00:16:00 -
[246]
Originally by: Chirinako I'm now beginning to realise why Iceland is bankrupt.
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Terastra
State War Academy
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Posted - 2008.10.14 00:17:00 -
[247]
Edited by: Terastra on 14/10/2008 00:17:51
Quote: Actually, he is right tbh. Why should people be able to gain RP, and thus ISK on accounts that they aren't paying for?
no real in game reason but from a purely business model for ccp they will find out this is a huge gaff.
there were always limits to how ghost training works that made it so that this type of training always forced you to resub in no longer than 60 days (certainly exceptions like carrier 5 exist etc) but usually much sooner. otherwise ghost "surfing" would lose its benefit. ccp was going to get their cash, maybe not as regularly as every 30 days but they could still depend on more from these accounts.
now people who surf for monetary reasons including those who just can't see justifying a 2nd, 3rd or 4th+ account at $15 every single month but who like the benefit of picking and choosing will have no option but to kill the accounts.
with ccp's very own words saying the trend has taken off recently this tells me that those accounts that are doing this that would pay in the next month or two will likely now become zero sum accounts.
essentially ccp just killed two types of account holders which i suspect make up a rather large chunk of their business. those who really just can't afford to pay every month and those with multiple accounts who can't justify it every month. the later will be where they feel the most pain.
oh well, i was planning on a few month break to get refreshed but this turns that into a, no point in coming back with the 30-60 days of training i will lose.
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Kwa Kaine
eXceed Inc. Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2008.10.14 00:17:00 -
[248]
Typical CCP tbh.
CCP = Blizzard in training
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Cailais
Amarr VITOC
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 00:18:00 -
[249]
Originally by: Chirinako I'm now beginning to realise why Iceland is bankrupt.
.
C.
Originally by: Tarminic Your continued whining is somewhat diminished by your continued willingness to give your money to CCP.
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Frug
Repo Industries R.E.P.O.
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 00:18:00 -
[250]
Doesn't bother me at all, but please remove datacore farming from inactive accounts as well.
- - - - - - - - - Do not use dotted lines - - - - - - - If you think I'm awesome, say BOOO BOOO!! - Ductoris Neat look what I found - Kreul Hey, my marbles |
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Col Carter
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 00:18:00 -
[251]
Originally by: Letouk Mernel Doubt you'll see this in all the spam, but how exactly does this work? Could you please give an example of a character who's training Battleship 5 for another 30 days and his subscription will expire in 10 days?
And another example with a character whose subscription has already expired, 5 days ago?
Well, it'll keep training till the moment the account expires. In your case, it will train BS 5 for another 10 days, all this starts wednesday, so add 2 days. 10 days after wednesday it stops.
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Mirida
Meltd0wn iPOD Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 00:18:00 -
[252]
Torfi, i'm pretty sure you are actually a nice guy but this devblog is just the same bullshit cooked up once again.
Removing one of the features that make EVE unique (and me paying again (Skill finished, i pay to setup a new one) although i'm not even playing currently) is not going to draw me back to playing EVE and having a full-time subscription.
I again suggest to reconsider this and punishing the one who pushed such a change in this manner and so fast (Firing isn't really an option as i trust in people beeing able to learn from mistakes). ___________________
EVE Development Network <Lead Developer> |
Sanadis
Gallente Sphere Industries Combined Planetary Union
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 00:18:00 -
[253]
Originally by: Malcanis
Originally by: Sanadis That's right CCP, show your real colors, keep deleting our posts that display the truth.
Edited by: Sanadis on 13/10/2008 23:59:48 I say good riddens to ghost training.
Even if this was promoted as a feature, it really is not a good one to the people who pay for the same thing someone else is getting while ghost training. I always keep my accounts active, no matter what. Losing a little skill training here and there is fine, but I actually PLAY the game while paying for it. It is only fair that ghost training is removed, because you should not get something that you are not paying for.
----------EDIT---------- BUT what is not fair is that you are lieing to us CCP, and I am disappointed!
http://www.webng.com/sanadis/pictures/lies.jpg
You have been promoting this "Bug" as a "Feature" up until now. Tell us the real reason behind its removal CCP!
Come on, someone quote me on this and see if they delete it
CCP, stop tring to hide the truth from everybody by deleting our posts, you are way overstepping this!
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Vanessa Vasquez
Lyonesse. KIA Alliance
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Posted - 2008.10.14 00:18:00 -
[254]
Facts: 1) I won't subscribe just for skilling time. Especially if i can't influence it and you set the skilltime. If i would, we may have BS5 up to 60 days in some time. 2) I will not pay for a second (or 3rd, 4th) account to experience all aspects of the game. Especially not, if all other MMOs don't require multiple accounts to do that. IN fact, i'll cancel my second account. 3) You are taking away possitive aspects of eve and not adding a single new one
1 = no profit to make here in my case 2 = pure loss 3 = from your point of view, a loss of your products attractiveness as well
You call it if this is a clever move. Don't get me wrong on this. I don't have a particular problem with the removal of ghost training. But i highly doubt that this change will benefit anybody.
PS: As others stated allready, it was nice to set a long skill while having RL reasons (or whatever) and then return to the game. I always reactivated my account to see my new toy, even if i got bored before. May sounds weird as eve is so great. Never the less, it actually happend to me twice.
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Biosman
No Quarter. Imperial Republic Of the North
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Posted - 2008.10.14 00:18:00 -
[255]
Edited by: Biosman on 14/10/2008 00:20:45
Quote: Now a single customer that doesn't log into the servers may not weigh heavily on our database infrastructure, just as a single snowflake isn't that heavy, hardly a measurable quantity. But it's hard not to notice an avalanche if it hits you. And that's what was starting to happen in our database.
The avalanche is definately gonna hit you ccp,wrecking for damage to your credibility now everyone can see that it was indeed part of a unique "feature" hence the RP gains earning isk.You do not have a leg to stand on and the only way to redeem yourselves is to backpedal on this unpopular idea pretty sharpish.
Tbh,I would have respected you more if you just said "Dear Eve users,ccp is having some difficulties atm with the global money crisis and unfortunately we need to raise the price a little,maybe for just a short period,to be able to bring you the service you deserve for all your years of loyalty"
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Aganola
Amarr Hungarian Riflemen Regiment
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Posted - 2008.10.14 00:19:00 -
[256]
Originally by: Idara New sig pimpage.
SHC 4tw.
Also: way to lock the other thread.
geez it's my image!! cool! edit:
forum compliant crapy version:
----------------------------------------------- "I do not belive in reicarnation... I didn't believed in it in my previous lives either..."
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Maria Huana
Caldari 4th FLEET of REDARMY Red Army Alliance
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Posted - 2008.10.14 00:19:00 -
[257]
hey CCP. I`m idiot,so can i become ur database developer?
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Malcanis
RuffRyders Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2008.10.14 00:20:00 -
[258]
Originally by: BlackDeej
Originally by: Sanadis That's right CCP, show your real colors, keep deleting our posts that display the truth.
Edited by: Sanadis on 13/10/2008 23:59:48 I say good riddens to ghost training.
Even if this was promoted as a feature, it really is not a good one to the people who pay for the same thing someone else is getting while ghost training. I always keep my accounts active, no matter what. Losing a little skill training here and there is fine, but I actually PLAY the game while paying for it. It is only fair that ghost training is removed, because you should not get something that you are not paying for.
----------EDIT---------- BUT what is not fair is that you are lieing to us CCP, and I am disappointed! CCP Lies
You have been promoting this "Bug" as a "Feature" up until now. Tell us the real reason behind its removal CCP!
Come on, someone quote me on this and see if they delete it
Quoted. And btw CCP deleting peoples posts is NOT gonna make this go away !!!
Streisand effect detected...
Want to bet this hits slashdot within 40 hours?
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Lubomir Penev
Section XIII Tau Ceti Federation
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Posted - 2008.10.14 00:20:00 -
[259]
Nice job deleting my posts in the original thread.
Forums mods here would have made damn fine concentration camp guards... Your signature is too large. Please resize it to a maximum of 400 x 120 with the file size not exceeding 24000 bytes. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] - Mitnal |
Nina Korgan
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Posted - 2008.10.14 00:20:00 -
[260]
Originally by: Ivor Gunn Edited by: Ivor Gunn on 14/10/2008 00:04:27 Edited by: Ivor Gunn on 14/10/2008 00:01:11
Quote: Ghost Training was an unintended feature
No it wasn't.
Quote: Skills continue training even if you are logged off or if your account is inactive
You contradict your own knowledge base. Pure hypocrisy.
In the blog, you try to justify this by talking about bug fixing, game balance issues and database issues across the space of a few paragraphs.
Do you even know yourselves why you're doing this? Will you be removing all other "offline" activities? POS work, manufacturing, RP generation, market orders the list goes on.
-3 accounts. Purely for lying to us, you shameless money grabbing corporate *****s.
QFT. -3 accounts here too.
I was holding off on ghost training so that I could play the game and then take a month or two off and focus on work/school, then come back to some cool new stuff. I now know that I'm not going to make it to a Guardian on my support account, or a Paladin on my ratting account, or T2 larges on my main account, without paying a huge stack of cash to get there. (On TOP OF the $785 I've paid in subscription fees so far!)
The only depressing part of this is, even if the number of lost accounts is high enough to make this a losing proposition for CCP (which I'm sure it will be), they'll never put it back in because their pride wouldn't let them. I can just hope the proposal gets scrapped before it goes in.
I know for sure that I'm ****ing out if this goes in and I'm staying out as long as it is in, because EVE already isn't worth the nearly $800 I've spent on it since I started playing; I'm sure as hell not paying more just to get skills.
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Vasili Z
Pyre of Gods
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Posted - 2008.10.14 00:20:00 -
[261]
Sounds fine to me. -------
Muse - Official band of frapsed Eve videos
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midge Mo'yb
Antares Shipyards Vanguard.
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Posted - 2008.10.14 00:20:00 -
[262]
Originally by: Aganola
Originally by: Idara New sig pimpage.
SHC 4tw.
Also: way to lock the other thread.
geez it's my image!! cool! edit:
forum compliant crapy version:
lol
-----------------------------------------------
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Wansadicus
Caldari The Smoke Squadron
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Posted - 2008.10.14 00:21:00 -
[263]
Edited by: Wansadicus on 14/10/2008 00:21:41 I personally have used this only two times, but as a Businessman, i see this clearly as a Bad Move!
Think again, lots of people need to stop playing for vacations or other reasons, sometimes they stay months away, and now they will think twice before reactivating, since "nothing" has changed in their characters while they where away from the game.
This was one of the "unique" features of Eve Online. and now...
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Cueball Mcfuzz
Groon Research
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Posted - 2008.10.14 00:21:00 -
[264]
Looks like 3 posts have been deleted off the first page alone, and I've been reading since the beginning. Nothing particularly insulting or against the EULA.
Typical! Think back to T20 and every other time CCP has screwed the pooch- frantic deleting that always descends into having to deal with the issue. Why not just deal with the issue now?
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Avon
Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.10.14 00:21:00 -
[265]
Originally by: Malcanis
Want to bet this hits slashdot within 40 hours?
Honestly I hope it doesn't. It would only make things worse for Eve in general tbh.
Poking CCP in here is one thing, but *out there*?
~shudders~
Eve-Online: The Text Adventure |
BDC Secretary
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Posted - 2008.10.14 00:21:00 -
[266]
Epic Fail.
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Rramar Claime
Amarr Task Force Zener Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2008.10.14 00:21:00 -
[267]
Pretty obvious the only reason for this stupidity is that someone in a high chair shouted for more money. Where can you get more money? Oh there are a lot of alts not paying. These guys are stupid anyway, lets harvest some isk from inactive skill training, then the stupid 5 year old boys will go shouting to their daddy that they cant finish carrier 5, so they will pay for the alt to be active whatever the cost is. This is how it goes with eve users right? Brilliant idea, CCP is so poor it actually does have the moral capital to **** off its own users and turn it into money.
Absolutely no other reason, and since youre doing things like this to your! community you can expect just as much from us.
"I cherish the memories of a question my grandson asked me the other day, when he said; 'Grandpa, were you a hero in the war?' Grandpa said, 'No, but I served in a company of heroes." |
Idara
Caldari Failure Corp
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 00:21:00 -
[268]
Edited by: Idara on 14/10/2008 00:21:35
Originally by: Aganola
Originally by: Idara New sig pimpage.
SHC 4tw.
Also: way to lock the other thread.
geez it's my image!! cool! edit:
forum compliant crapy version:
Sig updated. TY.
Still a horrible idea++ --- Failure Corp [FAILD] - Failing to fail first
in EVE - Idara |
Aganola
Amarr Hungarian Riflemen Regiment
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Posted - 2008.10.14 00:21:00 -
[269]
Originally by: midge Mo'yb
Originally by: Aganola
Originally by: Idara New sig pimpage.
SHC 4tw.
Also: way to lock the other thread.
geez it's my image!! cool! edit:
forum compliant crapy version:
lol
use it! spread it! let them HEAR IT / SEE IT / FEAR IT! :D ----------------------------------------------- "I do not belive in reicarnation... I didn't believed in it in my previous lives either..."
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BoroDracula
4 wing Daisho Syndicate
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Posted - 2008.10.14 00:22:00 -
[270]
How come we have had no Dev speak of the player eve guide. Surely this is a blog they should be actively contributing too.
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Balcura
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Posted - 2008.10.14 00:23:00 -
[271]
I normally have no issues with a great deal of the changes as I have been around for a lot of them (3 years of continual play). I always have 1 or 2 account active at a time with a total of 5 account as I can't afford to keep all 5 active at any given time...
Looks like I will be consolidating my accounts (you'll see the immediate income) and then let 3 of the accounts completely die... This is a Hugh mistake on your part, you can make any changes you wish... but if you keep pushing the player base around with obvious BS that you posted you will pay for it.
I played SWG for about 3 years before I jumped into eve. I enjoy long term games, but as a company makes mistakes in creating something I am unwilling to play I will change games based on how the company treats its players...
Please keep in mind you have caused issues with GTC changes and with this change you will **** off more people (including myself). Don't try and pass that BS off on us, insulting our intelligence and expect us to just be fine with it.
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Mika Katon
Gallente The Greater Goon GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 00:23:00 -
[272]
Hell, if the problem is people unsubscribing for 30day skills, why not assign a dollar value to each day of skill training, and let people buy their level 5 skills with cash?
This whole proposal is about making people pay money to train skills, regardless of whether or not they play the game while they train. So just cut straight to the point and sell us X days of training for $X dollars.
Same godd amn result without all the bullshit.
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Iridius Fervus
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Posted - 2008.10.14 00:23:00 -
[273]
Originally by: Itzena
Originally by: Avon Hey, your bug...
Skills continue training even if you are logged off or if your account is inactive
I found it in the player guide.
You guys better get in there and ninja-edit it.
"Skills continue training even if you are logged off or if your account is inactive (in the second scenario you can't change skill training, though). " - CCP
"Skills continue training even if you are logged off or if your account is inactive (in the second scenario you can't change skill training, though). " - CCP
"Skills continue training even if you are logged off or if your account is inactive (in the second scenario you can't change skill training, though). " - CCP
"Skills continue training even if you are logged off or if your account is inactive (in the second scenario you can't change skill training, though). " - CCP
"Skills continue training even if you are logged off or if your account is inactive (in the second scenario you can't change skill training, though). " - CCP
"Skills continue training even if you are logged off or if your account is inactive (in the second scenario you can't change skill training, though). " - CCP
"Skills continue training even if you are logged off or if your account is inactive (in the second scenario you can't change skill training, though). " - CCP
"Skills continue training even if you are logged off or if your account is inactive (in the second scenario you can't change skill training, though). " - CCP
"Skills continue training even if you are logged off or if your account is inactive (in the second scenario you can't change skill training, though). " - CCP
"Skills continue training even if you are logged off or if your account is inactive (in the second scenario you can't change skill training, though). " - CCP
"Skills continue training even if you are logged off or if your account is inactive (in the second scenario you can't change skill training, though). " - CCP
"Skills continue training even if you are logged off or if your account is inactive (in the second scenario you can't change skill training, though). " - CCP
"Skills continue training even if you are logged off or if your account is inactive (in the second scenario you can't change skill training, though). " - CCP
"Skills continue training even if you are logged off or if your account is inactive (in the second scenario you can't change skill training, though). " - CCP
"Skills continue training even if you are logged off or if your account is inactive (in the second scenario you can't change skill training, though). " - CCP
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GO MaZ
The Illuminati. Pandemic Legion
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 00:24:00 -
[274]
I think when your damage control posts get more angry trolling than the original thread you have to ask yourselves whether you're doing the right thing ---
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Malcanis
RuffRyders Axiom Empire
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 00:24:00 -
[275]
Originally by: Biosman
Quote: Now a single customer that doesn't log into the servers may not weigh heavily on our database infrastructure, just as a single snowflake isn't that heavy, hardly a measurable quantity. But it's hard not to notice an avalanche if it hits you. And that's what was starting to happen in our database.
The avalanche is definately gonna hit you ccp,wrecking for damage to your credibility now everyone can see that it is indeed part of a unique "feature" hence the RP gains earning isk.You do not have a leg to stand on and the only way to redeem yourselves is to backpedal on this unpopular idea pretty sharpish.
Tbh,I would have respected you more if you just said "Dear Eve users,ccp is having some difficulties atm with the global money crisis and unfortunately we need to raise the price a little,maybe for just a short period,to be able to bring you the service you deserve for all your years of loyalty"
This. They haven't raised the price in 5 years. Saying, OK, well shit happens, costs have gone up and we need an extra buck a month from you all to make stuff carry on working, then fine. I'd have just paid. There would have been a few grumbles, but what the hell - boxed single player games have gone up by rather more than this over the same period.
But flat out lying to us and then contradicting themselves with another lie...
...where's the respect, CCP?
When G.I.s shot themselves in the foot, it wasn't called a "million dollar wound" because they got a million dollars. I feel bad no-one explained this to you.
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Mael Duakal
Gallente Free-Space-Ranger Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 00:25:00 -
[276]
Edited by: Mael Duakal on 14/10/2008 00:27:10 Lieing is bad CCP... your mothers should have told you so...
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Denuo Secus
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 00:26:00 -
[277]
Omg, I just don't get it!
So much rage about this change? I pay for this game. Point. And offline skilling is part of the game.
Some people complain that they can't longer pay effectively one and a half account and evolve three or four chars for that money?! Forming a char is playing EVE imho.
And to call CCP greedy is really uncool. I know MMOs where you have to pay for every expansion! CCP spent 50 man-years in Trinity I heard? Did anyone pay an extra fee for that? Only one example...
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CowsCANBark
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 00:26:00 -
[278]
by the way when the value of iceland dollar decreases and they get a majority of their money in USD/ euro they should be doing much better than before.
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Niccolado Starwalker
Shadow Templars
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 00:27:00 -
[279]
Edited by: Niccolado Starwalker on 14/10/2008 00:28:15
Great work CCP!!! I have been waiting for this a long time!
I never understood why you people let who did not pay the game to earn skillpoints, which I had to pay 15 dollar for! So this is a very good move!
Originally by: Dianabolic Your tears are absolutely divine, like a fine fine wine, rolling down your cheeks until they flow down the river of LOL |
Jinx Barker
GFB Scientific
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 00:27:00 -
[280]
Edited by: Jinx Barker on 14/10/2008 00:27:00
Originally by: Torfi Frans Olafsson As many of you know by now, on Wednesday, Oct 15th, CCP will put out a server update disabling "ghost training". Ghost Training was an unintended feature where unpaid accounts of EVE Online were able to continue training skills. While this allowed players to run multiple characters on a shoestring budget, in all effect, this was a bug.
It should be noted that we're not changing offline skill training for active subscribers in any way. This change only affects those who do not have an active subscription.
Does that mean that CCP is a greedy money chewing monster that just loves nerfing things? Of course not. We're a company like everyone else, we make a game, that we happen to love making and for most of us is the passion of our lives. But it's also a company. We make a product, sell it, get salaries and then continue maintaining the product and making it better.
Now I'm not saying that if me personally would be at the other end of this Dev Blog I wouldn't be annoyed by CCP's actions. We are gamers. We game the system. We figure out how to maximize our returns. There's no surprise that people have done this for the simple fact that it wasn't banned per se and also for the fact that it was possible. But recently we have seen a surge in this behavior in a way that we were essentially supporting and maintaining a large number of customers that weren't paying us regular subscriptions. That's not fair towards CCP as a service provider and it's not fair towards other players that pay a subscription but don't make use of this bug.
Now a single customer that doesn't log into the servers may not weigh heavily on our database infrastructure, just as a single snowflake isn't that heavy, hardly a measurable quantity. But it's hard not to notice an avalanche if it hits you. And that's what was starting to happen in our database.
We can look at this from a variety of angles, but it all comes down to:
There was a way to progress a character in EVE without an active subscription CCP noticed a surge in the trend and decided to fix the leak Players now have to pay a subscription for characters to have them progress We truly hope that the community will understand our actions and continue to enjoy playing EVE as much as we enjoy making it.
Torfi Frans Olafsson
Senior Producer of EVE Online
I have underlined the only sensible thing said. Basically you choose to ignore the "trend" for years, a few years back you even backed off when community went crazy, and now during an economic hardship for many of your players you slapping it on.
Guess what, the reason why you noticed a surge is because most people can not afford the subs on multiple accounts - which you CCP encouraged for years and years - you know that 30 Dollars a month would pay for 3 months of local phone service in most parts of the USA.
So, then discourage multi-accounting! Nice of you to do it shortly after you got bunch of suckers to sign up for the P^2 accounts before you announced that gem.
I have been saying this for a long time, ever since the "old" guard of the developers left active EVE online roles CCP customer service, CCP customer attunes, and general CCP attitude toward its player base has gone to shit.
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Majuan Shuo
Ashen Lion Mining and Production Consortium
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Posted - 2008.10.14 00:27:00 -
[281]
Edited by: Majuan Shuo on 14/10/2008 00:39:29 My account ends in 4 days. I have recently changed my mind on renewing it in the future. I will not be doing so, it's off to Warhammer for me.
THAT being said, while I suspect CCP has just been caught in a bold faced lie, its entirely possible that the producer was just ill-informed. Because lets be honest, when do producers know a damned thing about the product in question? He may have very well thought it to be a bug when in fact it wasn't (as shown in the PLAYER GUIDE). However, it most CERTAINLY not a bug, it was a one of the features that attracted me to the game.
CCP, I really hope you guys don't think of your customers as idiots (as blizzard does); you all REALLY need to sit down and discuss this issue with one another.
* Based on the responses, do you really think the majority of the players see Ghost Training as unfair?
* Do you really REALLY think this will earn you more money in the long run? We are looking at a possible global financial crisis, which is a major factor in the canceling of accounts. Now if you take away a feature that was designed to bring people BACK, whats going to happen when the market fully rebounds?
* In the event you take the advise of your market base, do NOT half ass the change and put some penalty on the ghost training like some have said. You do not give a freedom, take it away, and only give half back. This will not SOLVE any but a MARGINAL amount of the dissent that has just been sown.
* Simply put: If you want to maintain the strongest possible player base regarding this announcment, just say you made a mistake, appologize, and do not change A THING.
"If it isn't broke, don't fix it." Owing to lack of Eve-related content, signature removed. If you would like to discuss this, please mail [email protected] - Mitnal |
Kim Wilde
Gallente Covenant
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 00:28:00 -
[282]
while needed to be removed for financiall reasons............. this feature of the game was one way of taking a vacation or a break while not loosing out, so introduce a skill queue so we know we wont be paying for a idle account while on vacation and id be happy
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Gut Punch
The Dead Parrot Shoppe Inc.
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 00:28:00 -
[283]
This is the same type of logic that CCP uses when they look at the speed nerf. Lets throw out the past and just do whatever now even though we established a system. Well screw you CCP. You definately can go down this road but the question is do you think you will be around post this and the nerf? Or do you prefer operating at the level of SWG?
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Danny Centurai
hirr Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 00:28:00 -
[284]
So everyone who cancelled an EVE account is getting a Jumpgate Evolution account on day of release, ammirite :D.
I personally will no longer maintain all the accounts I do dropping it down, CCP fixed their 5 yo bug but nerfed their income.
'CCP hits self wrecking omg wtf pwnt damage'
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Col Carter
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 00:28:00 -
[285]
Seriously heavy moderation in progress it seems.
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Yakumo Smith
Gallente When Darkness Falls
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 00:29:00 -
[286]
Originally by: Malcanis
Originally by: Biosman
Quote: Now a single customer that doesn't log into the servers may not weigh heavily on our database infrastructure, just as a single snowflake isn't that heavy, hardly a measurable quantity. But it's hard not to notice an avalanche if it hits you. And that's what was starting to happen in our database.
The avalanche is definately gonna hit you ccp,wrecking for damage to your credibility now everyone can see that it is indeed part of a unique "feature" hence the RP gains earning isk.You do not have a leg to stand on and the only way to redeem yourselves is to backpedal on this unpopular idea pretty sharpish.
Tbh,I would have respected you more if you just said "Dear Eve users,ccp is having some difficulties atm with the global money crisis and unfortunately we need to raise the price a little,maybe for just a short period,to be able to bring you the service you deserve for all your years of loyalty"
This. They haven't raised the price in 5 years. Saying, OK, well shit happens, costs have gone up and we need an extra buck a month from you all to make stuff carry on working, then fine. I'd have just paid. There would have been a few grumbles, but what the hell - boxed single player games have gone up by rather more than this over the same period.
But flat out lying to us and then contradicting themselves with another lie...
...where's the respect, CCP?
When G.I.s shot themselves in the foot, it wasn't called a "million dollar wound" because they got a million dollars. I feel bad no-one explained this to you.
Again, agreed. Being honest from the start would have gotten you posts from people starting alt accounts to help you...instead you forced it the other way by lying.
I'm waiting for the "It's all a misunderstanding" blog to come out tomorrow...unfortunately the damage has been done and it'll take a lot more than appologies to repair that.
I suppose this must be my sig. I'll do something cool with it eventually. |
ZeroGasam
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 00:29:00 -
[287]
Back to guild wars...
Please reconsider this CCP
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Duvaren
Amarr The Maverick Navy Pupule 'Ohana
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 00:29:00 -
[288]
Edited by: Duvaren on 14/10/2008 00:32:10
Originally by: D4RT N3RDiUS CMON CCP GIVE US ONE STRAIGTH ANSWER!!! OH WAIT YOU DID IT AND FAAAAAAAAAAAIIIIIIILLLLLLLL
I THING SOME PPL GONA GET FIRED.. and is not becouse of your lies is becouse you have a lot of angry customers who quit and you need to pay the bills..
/signed
I have cancelled ONE account. My ONLY account.
I quit for a year before when I had a bug where my cap readout showed I had more cap than I actually had. (Desync) It took them three months to fix it and they send me an email. (After I'd had my account deactivated for 2.5 months.)
Then after a year I decided to return and found my wallet at -10mil ISK.
CCP's customer service is fail.
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Qlanth
Caldari Merch Industrial GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 00:29:00 -
[289]
Aaahahahaha now you are just lying about it.
This is going to mean less money for you, and it will be funny when you find that out and reverse this.
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ArmyOfMe
Developmental Neogenics Amalgamated
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 00:30:00 -
[290]
Edited by: ArmyOfMe on 14/10/2008 00:30:07 feel free to transfer chars with 20+ mill sp from accounts you wont keep running to one of my accounts
never actually used the feature, and i can see why ccp does this. but the way they are doing it is completly wrong, but if they go through with this they should stop all market orders and rp gains on inactive accounts as well.
Originally by: deadmaus
Because by the time we had calmed Plague down after he heard BoB were back in the vicinity it was too late to do anything |
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Hickock
Caldari Einherjar Rising Cry Havoc.
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 00:30:00 -
[291]
Can you all really not afford $15 for an account? You dont need 3-852319407120985 accounts. Cut down on your accounts and you wont be *****ing.
Maybe some of you SHOULD quit eve and get a job, then come back when you got teh moneh! --------------
Visit http://extremepredators.com/ for more information. |
DigitalCommunist
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 00:30:00 -
[292]
Oh Wrangler, ur so meta.
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HarrytheBarstool
Caldari Ecky Thump Ltd
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 00:30:00 -
[293]
Edited by: HarrytheBarstool on 14/10/2008 00:34:48 Edited by: HarrytheBarstool on 14/10/2008 00:33:03 Now for all us thick donkeys here's a translation from google ...
As many of you know by now, on Wednesday, Oct 15th, CCP will put out a server update disabling "ghost training". Ghost Training was a feature where unpaid accounts of EVE Online were able to continue training skills. While this allowed players to run multiple characters on a shoestring budget, in all effect, this lost us money.
It should be noted that we're not changing offline skill training for active subscribers in any way. This change only affects those who do not have an active subscription.
Does that mean that CCP is a greedy money chewing monster that just loves nerfing things? Of course it does. We're a company like everyone else, we make a game, that we happen to love making and for most of us is the passion of our lives. But it's also a company that is here to make money from poor suckers like you. We make a product, sell it, get salaries and then continue maintaining the product and making it slightly better or worse.
Now I'm saying that if me personally was at the other end of this Dev Blog I wouldn't be ****ed by CCP's actions because i make stupid amounts of money. We are gamers. We game the system. We figure out how to maximize our profits while shafting the ppl who pay our wages. There's no surprise that people have done this for the simple fact that it wasn't banned per se and also for the fact that we put that feature in. But recently we have seen a small increase in this behavior in a way that we were essentially supporting and maintaining a large number of customers that weren't paying us regular subscriptions. That's not on for CCP as a service provider.
Now a single customer that doesn't log into the servers does not weigh heavily on our database infrastructure, just as a single snowflake isn't that heavy, hardly a measurable quantity. But it's hard not to notice an avalanche if it hits you. And that's what was starting to happen in our database.
We can look at this from a variety of angles, but it all comes down to:
1. We remembered about a feature we could make more money from 2. CCP noticed a loss in subs. and decided to fix the leak 3. Players now have to pay us more for characters to have them progress
We truly hope that the community will not leave in droves through our shameful money grabbing actions and continue to enjoy playing EVE as much as we enjoy making more money from it.
Torfi Frans Olafsson
Senior Producer of EVE Online
Next time use google online bullshit translator as recommended by HarrytheBarstool.
*** Smoking Whippets Since 1967 *** |
Bane Glorious
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.10.14 00:30:00 -
[294]
Still gotta say, I can't approve of this decision. And I especially don't care for the tone of this dev blog, it seems to aim to vilify people as if they were undermining CCP intentionally. Nevermind the reasons for the change, that's an abysmal attempt at public relations. |
Sanchez Ding
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 00:30:00 -
[295]
Just to say BS and i dont meen Battleship.....
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keuel
Gallente Heretic Militia
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Posted - 2008.10.14 00:31:00 -
[296]
CCP, you Phail, hope this bad idea get postponed, and oh, you said bug? strange, this bug was in eve for 5 years and still.
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Lyria Skydancer
Amarr Developmental Neogenics Amalgamated
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 00:32:00 -
[297]
Originally by: Malcanis
This. They haven't raised the price in 5 years. Saying, OK, well shit happens, costs have gone up and we need an extra buck a month from you all to make stuff carry on working, then fine. I'd have just paid.
Yeah, but right now they are making just the people with an army of accounts pay for it instead. Hey, better them then me. ----------------------------------------- [Video] Support Barrage |
Sanadis
Gallente Sphere Industries Combined Planetary Union
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Posted - 2008.10.14 00:32:00 -
[298]
It looks like CCP does not care enough about its customers to actually tell us why they straight up lied about all of this.
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Wod
Gallente Fallen Pandas
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Posted - 2008.10.14 00:32:00 -
[299]
Originally by: DigitalCommunist Oh Wrangler, ur so meta.
- I like cookies |
Vitrael
Reaper Industries Eternal Rapture
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Posted - 2008.10.14 00:32:00 -
[300]
You said you didn't want to add a skill queue because of Ghost Training.
With Ghost Training gone, any reason we can't have a skill queue?
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Mongo Loid
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.10.14 00:32:00 -
[301]
Unintended? Bullshit:
http://www.eve-online.com/guide/en/g615.asp
It's listed as a feature in the original player's guide. |
Lysander Drakos
Evolution
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Posted - 2008.10.14 00:33:00 -
[302]
Edited by: Lysander Drakos on 14/10/2008 00:33:56 Of course this change happens while I am on a break for the first time in 3 years.
I take it the power of 2 isn't going so well?
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Danny Centurai
hirr Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 00:33:00 -
[303]
Originally by: keuel CCP, you Phail, hope this bad idea get postponed, and oh, you said bug? strange, this bug was in eve for 5 years and still.
Credit crunch is the bug IMO
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Aganola
Amarr Hungarian Riflemen Regiment
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Posted - 2008.10.14 00:33:00 -
[304]
Originally by: DigitalCommunist Oh Wrangler, ur so meta.
lol... just... lol... spread the word by the way:
----------------------------------------------- "I do not belive in reicarnation... I didn't believed in it in my previous lives either..."
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Avon
Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.10.14 00:34:00 -
[305]
Edited by: Avon on 14/10/2008 00:33:50
Originally by: GO MaZ I think when your damage control posts get more angry trolling than the original thread you have to ask yourselves whether you're doing the right thing
They should employ me as a damage control consultant, rather than, say..
Reasonable rates and I'll work from home, thanks.
Eve-Online: The Text Adventure |
D4RT N3RDiUS
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Posted - 2008.10.14 00:34:00 -
[306]
i want the slashdot vercion of the incident plss!!
http://slashdot.org/submit.pl
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IR Scoutar
Caldari State War Academy
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Posted - 2008.10.14 00:34:00 -
[307]
Originally by: Danny Centurai So everyone who cancelled an EVE account is getting a Jumpgate Evolution account on day of release, ammirite :D.
duuuude ... closed beta(when they finaly bring it out *taps foot*
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Paramite Pies
Minmatar Native Freshfood
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Posted - 2008.10.14 00:34:00 -
[308]
Okay...Sooooo...
First you're going to take away 15 dollar GTCs RIGHT when I need them, NOW you're going to take away 'ghost training' when I need it?! What the fudge, CCP. You're really just out to mess with my plans, aren't you? AREN'T YOU!?! __________________ Subscription ends: 10/13/08 Donations for a shiny new GTC? |
Arconite
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Posted - 2008.10.14 00:34:00 -
[309]
CCP, what a way to dress this one time in-game feature! You call it an unintentional bug and you say you're fixing it to balance it out. Yet, you even state it as a selling point about skills continuing to train even though an account is out of subs? Doh! Talk about mouth in gear, brain in neutral for whoever thought that one up!! Geez, what PR you have!
Then you come out with lame reasoning about database usage - geez, you sc**** the low end of the barrel you really do. If you're going to drop bomb shells like this - at least get the wording and reasons right and don't try to pull the wool over peopleÆs eyes.
You lot couldn't lie in a bed straight you're that crooked!!
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Col Carter
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Posted - 2008.10.14 00:34:00 -
[310]
Originally by: ArmyOfMe Edited by: ArmyOfMe on 14/10/2008 00:30:07 feel free to transfer chars with 20+ mill sp from accounts you wont keep running to one of my accounts
never actually used the feature, and i can see why ccp does this. but the way they are doing it is completly wrong, but if they go through with this they should stop all market orders and rp gains on inactive accounts as well.
it does not appear it is about the feature on its own accord, going over posts in the various threads. CCP isn't very good at PR but this situation stands out even from that.
GTC changes, Power of 2, Ghost training, then add bad manner and form, and you have people putting things together as a principle situation.
I'm not fussed about ghost training personally, but the trend eve is taking is visible, also the arguments presented by CCP are falsehood for anyone with a wee bit of economics in their schooling (the feature page part is while indeed a major attraction factor for many subscribers just something subject to change, because it remains CCP's game).
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Judas Jones
Amarr Black Company
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Posted - 2008.10.14 00:34:00 -
[311]
Thaks for making the decision an easy one, every 2~ months out of the year I stop paying/playing for RL festivities/holidays/break and usually have a long skill trainning. Now as of late, with some of the more fundamentally flawed broken game direciton I was debating if i should come back at all, this pretty has determined that for me.
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Vegeta
Minmatar Omniscient Order Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2008.10.14 00:34:00 -
[312]
Yet another thoughtless post by a CCP officialdom who has not logged onto Tranquility for years.
When you don't play Eve, your ties with the community and your understanding of the game, especially it's current situation, slowly start to dwindle. This is easily spotted in posts made by most senior staff, with whom it is impossible to discuss what is really going on in the game since they have no real understanding of it (most will admit to this). Torfifranz is a great example of this, as you will clearly see if you look at his forum posting history (last post 2003.11.27 16:44:00 and no previous devblogs).
It's not necessarily a bad thing, except in cases like these where decisions which require community understanding and empathy are left to those without any. You may have been there at the start, but that was ten years ago and you don't know half the stuff that's gone on since then. Leave these decisions to more capable hands, even if it means your wallet will suffer as a result.
I'm sure the internal debate at CCP will be just as heated as the one on these forums. If the ones who still occasionally log into Eve have their way, the decision will be changed I'm sure. The question is whether there are any left, and whether they have the balls to stand up and say 'Hey, this ain't right'. I guess we're about to find out.
Also, by now one would have expected that you had learned to treat your players with enough respect to at least "give it to them straight" and not try to hide behind badly worded excuses such as this one. For shame.
I for one can't wait to see Hellmar and Oveurs presentations at FanFest - especially since in the previous years they have never failed to provide us with updated user statistics.
Vegeta hp
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Ivor Gunn
No One Expects The Spanish Inquisition
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 00:34:00 -
[313]
Originally by: DigitalCommunist Oh Wrangler, ur so meta.
sometimes digicomm you actually turn me on
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Jason Edwards
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Posted - 2008.10.14 00:34:00 -
[314]
Next thing you know you have to be logged on and docked just to train your skills.
I will be skill king then. WOOO ------------------------ "There was this bright flash of light - and now this egg shaped thing is on my screen - did I level up?" |
Kerpow
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Posted - 2008.10.14 00:35:00 -
[315]
Judging by how many have replied, does this mean that it affects a large number of players?
If as CCP say it's now an avalanche, does that mean we're talking about 10-20% of eve players doing this?
90 day market orders, are these going to be suspended if the player is not active? What about their contracts, their research, their manufacturing jobs etc?
I see a can of worms, lets open it.
If it aint broke, don't fix it.
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Vitrael
Reaper Industries Eternal Rapture
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Posted - 2008.10.14 00:35:00 -
[316]
Originally by: "Player Guide" Skills continue training even if you are logged off or if your account is inactive (in the second scenario you can't change skill training, though)
Pretty fantastic lols there.
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Sarin Adler
Caldari Dark Shadow Cartel
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Posted - 2008.10.14 00:35:00 -
[317]
Instead of "rewarding" players who give you more money by subscribing with multiple account you go the other way around. Great, CCP. You insult us not ocne, but twice, mayeb you think we're just stupid customers right.
Please remove RP, market orders and all the other stuff while you're at it on don't talk bullshit about database load; and remove these bazillion inactive trial accounts too, plz.
---
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Supay
Caldari The Littlest Hobos Ushra'Khan
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 00:35:00 -
[318]
Do a search for eve online ghost training on google. MMO websites are lighting up all over the net with this story and it doesn't seem to be in CCP's favour. This is really going to put new players off trying EVE, even if they don't understand what it means. .
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Malcanis
RuffRyders Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2008.10.14 00:36:00 -
[319]
Originally by: Denuo Secus Omg, I just don't get it!
So much rage about this change? I pay for this game. Point. And offline skilling is part of the game.
Some people complain that they can't longer pay effectively one and a half account and evolve three or four chars for that money?! Forming a char is playing EVE imho.
And to call CCP greedy is really uncool. I know MMOs where you have to pay for every expansion! CCP spent 50 man-years in Trinity I heard? Did anyone pay an extra fee for that? Only one example...
Payment Type:Credit Card Credit Card Details Change Payment MethodCancel Subscription Subscription Status:Active Subscription type:3 Months, Ç38.85 (Billed in Euros) Change Subscription Interval Next:05. December 2008 Total Charges Made:10
2006-10-06 Sale**** VISA19.95 EUR 2006-11-04 Sale**** VISA14.95 EUR 2007-03-04 Sale**** VISA38.85 EUR 2007-06-04 Sale**** VISA38.85 EUR 2007-09-04 Sale**** VISA38.85 EUR 2007-12-04 Sale**** VISA38.85 EUR 2008-03-04 Sale**** VISA38.85 EUR 2008-06-04 Sale**** VISA38.85 EUR 2008-09-05 Sale**** VISA38.85 EUR Back
Payment Type:Credit Card Credit Card Details Change Payment MethodCancel Subscription Subscription Status:Active Subscription type:3 Months, Ç38.85 (Billed in Euros) Change Subscription Interval Next:18. December 2008 Total Charges Made:8
2006-10-06 Sale**** VISA19.95 EUR 2006-11-04 Sale**** VISA14.95 EUR 2007-03-04 Sale**** VISA38.85 EUR 2007-06-04 Sale**** VISA38.85 EUR 2007-09-04 Sale**** VISA38.85 EUR 2007-12-04 Sale**** VISA38.85 EUR 2008-03-04 Sale**** VISA38.85 EUR 2008-06-04 Sale**** VISA38.85 EUR 2008-09-05 Sale**** VISA38.85 EUR
Payment Type: CreditCard VISA **8858 Credit card details Change Payment Method Update Subscription Interval Subscription Status: Cancelled Will be suspended10/27/2008 Total Number Of Payments: 7 Cancel Subscription Cancellation Expires: 10/27/2008 4:45:32 PM Remaining Playtime: 13d:16h:13m
Last 5 Payments: PaymentID Date Amount Description Status ******* 7/29/2008 38.85 EUR Recurring Payment for 3 Month EVE Subscription Paid Authorized with confirmation code #******* ******* 4/30/2008 38.85 EUR Recurring Payment for 3 Month EVE Subscription Paid Authorized with confirmation code #******* ******* 1/31/2008 38.85 EUR Recurring Payment for 3 Month EVE Subscription Paid Authorized with confirmation code #******* ******* 11/2/2007 38.85 EUR Re-Activation of 3 Month EVE Subscription Paid Authorized with confirmation code #******* ******* 11/2/2007 38.85 EUR Recurring Payment for 3 Month EVE Subscription Failed REQUEST ******* VALUE **07 OF FIELD EXPIRYDATE IS NOT IN FORMAT MMYY ******* 8/4/2007 38.85 EUR Reccuring Payment for Paid Authorized with confirmation code #******* ******* 7/5/2007 19.95 EUR Paid Authorized with confirmation code #*******
CCP have had just under a thousand euros of my money. Damb. Didn't realise it was that much... it's things like this that make people take a look at the numbers, eh?
How much to not be flat-out lied to, I wonder?
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Danny Centurai
hirr Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2008.10.14 00:36:00 -
[320]
Wrangler remind you of a certain information minister?
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ArmyOfMe
Developmental Neogenics Amalgamated
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 00:36:00 -
[321]
Originally by: Avon Edited by: Avon on 14/10/2008 00:33:50
Originally by: GO MaZ I think when your damage control posts get more angry trolling than the original thread you have to ask yourselves whether you're doing the right thing
They should employ me as a damage control consultant, rather than, say..
Reasonable rates and I'll work from home, thanks.
HAHAHA, brilliant
Originally by: deadmaus
Because by the time we had calmed Plague down after he heard BoB were back in the vicinity it was too late to do anything |
Amarria Drezine
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Posted - 2008.10.14 00:37:00 -
[322]
Edited by: Amarria Drezine on 14/10/2008 00:36:58
Originally by: "Player Guide" Skills continue training even if you are logged off or if your account is inactive (in the second scenario you can't change skill training, though)
Yeah its a 'bug', but its been in the guide for 5 years.
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GO MaZ
The Illuminati. Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2008.10.14 00:37:00 -
[323]
Originally by: Avon Reasonable rates and I'll work from home, thanks.
I must say your posting on this issue has been most excellent, good job dear boy. ---
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Feriluce
Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2008.10.14 00:37:00 -
[324]
Originally by: ZeroGasam Back to guild wars...
Please reconsider this CCP
Guild wars is great :3...cant wait for GW2
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Kwa Kaine
eXceed Inc. Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2008.10.14 00:38:00 -
[325]
CCP just love shooting themselves in the foot it seems.
CCP = Blizzard in training
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Col Carter
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Posted - 2008.10.14 00:38:00 -
[326]
Originally by: IR Scoutar
Originally by: Danny Centurai So everyone who cancelled an EVE account is getting a Jumpgate Evolution account on day of release, ammirite :D.
duuuude ... closed beta(when they finaly bring it out *taps foot*
If you like EVE in a sense of how you can work the market, fly your ship and with others, and don't have unnerving tendencies to fraternise with a joystick, JGE is not for you. It's a low level dogfighting game with a mission generator with a bunch of servers, not to mention the state of pvp ...
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Rramar Claime
Amarr Task Force Zener Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2008.10.14 00:38:00 -
[327]
Originally by: Vitrael You said you didn't want to add a skill queue because of Ghost Training.
With Ghost Training gone, any reason we can't have a skill queue?
Oh i'm sure they'll get a reason.
I know how to fix this. I want rats to give xp so i can grind myself to level 70 caldari cap pilot! No more problem with inactive people, CCP you'd be so rich the whole iceland would just wake up from its ruined economy only from your taxes. Yes thats the way to go, forget skilling by time, i want experience implemented NOW! I want 8 million users for eve and wnat to go into instas to kill the mega boss sansha battleships, wish there would be a game like that. But all we get is this sh*t...
XP FOR THE RATS !
"I cherish the memories of a question my grandson asked me the other day, when he said; 'Grandpa, were you a hero in the war?' Grandpa said, 'No, but I served in a company of heroes." |
keuel
Gallente Heretic Militia
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Posted - 2008.10.14 00:39:00 -
[328]
Originally by: Amarria Drezine Edited by: Amarria Drezine on 14/10/2008 00:36:58
Originally by: "Player Guide" Skills continue training even if you are logged off or if your account is inactive (in the second scenario you can't change skill training, though)
Yeah its a 'bug', but its been in the guide for 5 years.
Eve has bugs? I thought it was all features Oo
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Digicomm
The Digital Communists
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Posted - 2008.10.14 00:39:00 -
[329]
Originally by: Ivor Gunn
Originally by: DigitalCommunist Oh Wrangler, ur so meta.
sometimes digicomm you actually turn me on
Anytime.
sup?
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Jinx Barker
GFB Scientific
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Posted - 2008.10.14 00:39:00 -
[330]
Originally by: Mongo Loid Unintended? Bullshit:
http://www.eve-online.com/guide/en/g615.asp
It's listed as a feature in the original player's guide.
I thought I would show an actual picture of the FEATURE they boasted of themselves for years: Skills Guide to EVE Online: By CCP - Note the underline.
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GalaticVoyag3r
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Posted - 2008.10.14 00:39:00 -
[331]
Quote: Ghost Training was an unintended feature where unpaid accounts of EVE Online were able to continue training skills. While this allowed players to run multiple characters on a shoestring budget, in all effect, this was a bug.
No, it isn't sweetheart.
Find a better excuse.
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Baron Houshay
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Posted - 2008.10.14 00:40:00 -
[332]
Nice work ccp, -2 accounts here (they where rotated in and out to save a bit of cash while still shelling atleast 15 bucks a month out) lost that now though CCP.
Good job on the lies too. Havnt played long, played other MMO's longer, eve was a refreshing breath of air, but I can get back to my other mmo's now.
stuff given to friend in game, dont ask.
Once again -2
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Nefertria Amarriantis
Amarr Paxton Industries Paxton Federation
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Posted - 2008.10.14 00:41:00 -
[333]
CCP, I seriously pity the people who have made this decision.
You have consistently demonstrated that you are unable to run your "business" effectively. There are only 2 possible scenarios....
1 - This was indeed a loophole in which case you have demonstrated a completely useless ability to manage your game by letting a bug run for 5 years with no fix.
2 - This was intentional and was advertised as a game feature, like we see in your player guide - in which case your entire reasoning, blog and other replies have been a total fabrication to hide the fact you simply want more money.
Taking into consideration all the above - the final straw is to give only 24 hours notice before the change with no consultation period, no active attempt to contact people who are ghost training informing of the change and the either reactive or lose training and finally to DO THIS AFTER AN INTENTIONAL ALT CREATING PROMOTION.
-1 alt and seriously considering not keeping my main when it runs out - we shall see.
P.S - You are a company unable to maintain a stable game that barely warrants being classed as out of beta...ridiculous. The day a half decent space based MMO hits the market Eve will fade - and that's a fact.
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Avon
Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.10.14 00:41:00 -
[334]
Originally by: Baron Houshay rotated
NC alt spotted.
Eve-Online: The Text Adventure |
The Ubernomicon
Eight year old girls GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.10.14 00:41:00 -
[335]
I get the feeling this a knee-jerk reaction to the TC changes not working out for them.
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Lord Melon
KOVEN Industries
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Posted - 2008.10.14 00:41:00 -
[336]
I would seriously have thought that while existing customers with inactive accounts have very little action that they can take
However those with active accounts would be entitled to refunds, especially those that have just taken out the "power of two" - maybe another reason for the fluctuation in figures? Since they may well have done so based on the info that CCP posted as "fact" about how the game and how the subscription and game model operates - be it in features or not, nowhere in the EVE knowledgebase is this posted as a "unintended feature"
Ive never seen this listed as a "known bug", issue, forthcoming fix etc - if it really did take soooo long to find a fix for this, then it either wasnt an issue, wasnt possible, or for some reason money-grabbing just got more important cos the banks have closed on your arse!
-2 active & -3 inactive accounts
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Una D
Ex Coelis The Bantam Menace
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Posted - 2008.10.14 00:41:00 -
[337]
Wow thanks for that BS CCP. I'm sure you had to smoke some real stuff to be able to type up that shit without puking yourself. Way to go to prevent people from coming back to your own game. Why not just declare bankruptcy, steal all the cash and run for it? At least than you would admit that you are a bunch of thieves that do not have skill for leading a company. That would be at least honest unlike this BS that is bug after being a feature and selling point for 5 years.
Wonder what happened to the CCP that actually listened to it's fan base and made good game (this crap with bug expansions every six months is free but god damn could you actually fix some bugs instead of removing features that people actually like and that bring you in money?). Hope you reconsider this BS but somehow I doubt that. Admitting that you are wrong demands something you guys don't even have in trace amounts.
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Meha Mott
Minmatar Carebear Research and Produktion Agency
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Posted - 2008.10.14 00:41:00 -
[338]
There was a time, long ago, when Gamer developed games for gamer. For me it was a fine time, games like Elite, Ultima, The Bards Tale,later Dungeon Master, Diablo an a lot of other, here not named Games, made me
Then the dark age started, when old money counting people started to take over the market
It is not bad to make money with a product, but it is bad to see money as the most important aim in a computer game.
So now i am 50 years old and i thought that CCP was one of the last companies left, where the "Money People" are not the most important people a the company.
But from now on i think this little ABBA song will fit very well to CCP:
http://de.youtube.com/watch?v=o16uVon2NRQ
Sorry for my bad English
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Danny Centurai
hirr Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2008.10.14 00:41:00 -
[339]
CCP with 100% more failure cascade than Tri Mk 1 + M.Pire and YouWhat put together!
Seriously this is the most sucky thing to happen since I started EVE.
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Treelox
Amarr Market Jihadist Revolutionary Party
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Posted - 2008.10.14 00:42:00 -
[340]
As I said in the other thread on this subject...
1.) You did this to yourselves CCP, by eliminating 30 GTC
2.) You have eliminated one of the biggest selling points in my ability to get you new players. Many a professional who has a family I know, was brought into eve hook line and sinker, because they didnt have to worry about their skilling if their RL blew up in their face.
3.) This nerf of yours of "Ghost Training" so misses the real problem of inactive accounts. Which is the accumilation of RP while an account is inactive. Datacore farming has become a huge business for many an inactive account.
DISCLAIMER---
I pay for my one account with my CC. I have never "ghost trained". This "nerf" doesnt effect me at all, but I really think your killing off one of the great features that made eve stick out amongst the pack of other MMO's out there.
Wrangler thanks for your reflavored bovine scatology, in this dev blog. While it was a different flavor than the news item from Fallout earlier today, it still leaves a bad taste. --
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Malcanis
RuffRyders Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2008.10.14 00:42:00 -
[341]
Originally by: Lyria Skydancer
Originally by: Malcanis
This. They haven't raised the price in 5 years. Saying, OK, well shit happens, costs have gone up and we need an extra buck a month from you all to make stuff carry on working, then fine. I'd have just paid.
Yeah, but right now they are making just the people with an army of accounts pay for it instead. Hey, better them then me.
Uh Lyria sweety, in case you haven't noticed, they're not going to pay for it. They're not going to pay anything at all now. At least, mine aren't: CCP's income from me just dropped by about a third.
So now you're going to get a $5 price rise instead of a $1.
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Decimo
DEATH'S LEGION
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Posted - 2008.10.14 00:43:00 -
[342]
To say this isn't a change centered around greed is pretty much a huge lie. Passive skill building is just that, passive. It's impossible to argue that somehow players who have a subscription training a 35-day skill are somehow playing a more active role in training that skill than someone who is training it on an inactive subscription. The only difference between someone who has an active sub and trains long skills because of limited play time (such as myself at the moment) and someone training a long skill without a sub is the money going into CCP's pocket.
Also, I think this will hinder the acquisition of said money rather than bolster it. Before my last break which I was forced to take due to family issues, I set BS V to train. I can honestly say that if it weren't for the enticement of trying out my new skill I can honestly say I wouldn't have come back to the game. I think the same can be said for many others as well.
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Treelox
Amarr Market Jihadist Revolutionary Party
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Posted - 2008.10.14 00:43:00 -
[343]
p.s. I love how the devblog comes from a Dev who hasnt posted on the forums since 2003. That explains the out of touchness that was exhibited by the handling of this matter. --
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Arconite
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Posted - 2008.10.14 00:43:00 -
[344]
Originally by: Jinx Barker
Originally by: Mongo Loid Unintended? Bullshit:
http://www.eve-online.com/guide/en/g615.asp
It's listed as a feature in the original player's guide.
I thought I would show an actual picture of the FEATURE they boasted of themselves for years: Skills Guide to EVE Online: By CCP - Note the underline.
Priceless!
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Magnus Amadeus
Amarr Hammer Of Light Libertas Fidelitas
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Posted - 2008.10.14 00:44:00 -
[345]
All I have to say is
BOOOOOO
_________________________________________________ Never argue with an idiot, they drag you down to their level and beat you down with experience. |
Jinx Barker
GFB Scientific
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Posted - 2008.10.14 00:44:00 -
[346]
Originally by:
Shame on you CCP for betraying your player-base.
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Sanadis
Gallente Sphere Industries Combined Planetary Union
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Posted - 2008.10.14 00:44:00 -
[347]
Originally by: Kwa Kaine CCP just love shooting themselves in the foot it seems.
I suppose it is good to see that they don't miss.
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ttocszed00
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Posted - 2008.10.14 00:45:00 -
[348]
wow soo much emo rage here lol
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Deimus
Gallente CAD Inc. Executive Outcomes
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Posted - 2008.10.14 00:45:00 -
[349]
This is utterly ridiculous. I'm also cancelling my subscription to Eve.
Outright lying about the reason is even more ridiculous.
Have a nice day CCP.
Have fun with your increased performance due to less players in Eve.
Show us your subscription numbers a month from now please.
I'm curious on how the numbers are.
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LuthienTinuviel
The Vanyar
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Posted - 2008.10.14 00:45:00 -
[350]
Originally by: Avon Edited by: Avon on 14/10/2008 00:33:50
Originally by: GO MaZ I think when your damage control posts get more angry trolling than the original thread you have to ask yourselves whether you're doing the right thing
They should employ me as a damage control consultant, rather than, say..
Reasonable rates and I'll work from home, thanks.
hehe awesome piccy... wonder if they really replaced Torfi with him
CCP Atropos > sigh it's simple really when it becomes the de facto method for fighting it needs ot be nerfed simple as really - WTF? l |
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Master Spoonman
FinFleet Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.10.14 00:45:00 -
[351]
Well CCP, **** you too. I've heard you guys are even holding off on raises for your staff, too. How greedy can you guys get? How is your income even affected by the Icelandic market crash? You get paid in Euro/USD!
At least be honest with the players about your greedy ways: you're just trying to force users to pay you extra money by turning this game "feature" into a "bug" and making them resubscribe when they normally would not.
I suppose I'm wasting my time typing this as it's doubtful any of you care about what your subscribers say if it isn't putting money in your pocket.
***
*Special thanks to Zurtur to making this signature for me* |
Daevien Steiner
ZipZoom Kaboom Ethereal Dawn
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 00:46:00 -
[352]
Just how many ways can you prove in one year that you have no idea about your game anymore & **** off your customers? Are you trying to beat Sony's record with NGE?
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Vtreka
Gallente eXceed Inc.
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Posted - 2008.10.14 00:47:00 -
[353]
/me ROFL's at everyone who is ****ed off for expecting that they're characters should continue training if they haven't paid their account.
I wonder how many of them are angry because they have tons of alt accounts which they only pay via buying GTC's ingame with ISK and hence not actually paying money for it in the first place.
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Danny Centurai
hirr Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 00:47:00 -
[354]
Originally by: Daevien Steiner Just how many ways can you prove in one year that you have no idea about your game anymore & **** off your customers? Are you trying to beat Sony's record with NGE?
^ This!
Only one issue 99% of player base will never get to read this thread and will only moan when they realise it dnt work!
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aldruitanzaro
Gallente Project Cyberia
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 00:47:00 -
[355]
god job ccp
- 2 Accounts
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Delos Korelian
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 00:48:00 -
[356]
Originally by: Jinx Barker
... ever since the "old" guard of the developers left active EVE online roles CCP customer service, CCP customer attunes, and general CCP attitude toward its player base has gone to shit.
Aint that the truth
|
ttocszed00
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 00:48:00 -
[357]
any1 that is getting rid of isk / assets contract them to me i need cash
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wide
55378008
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 00:48:00 -
[358]
Quote: Now a single customer that doesn't log into the servers may not weigh heavily on our database infrastructure, just as a single snowflake isn't that heavy, hardly a measurable quantity. But it's hard not to notice an avalanche if it hits you. And that's what was starting to happen in our database.
Is it just me or is this argument completely lacking in logic? |
Alex Salas
BROTHERHOOD OF SPARTA Pupule 'Ohana
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 00:49:00 -
[359]
Originally by: Ivor Gunn
No it wasn't.
Quote: Skills continue training even if you are logged off or if your account is inactive
owned!
CCP Wrangler & CCP t0rfifrans rotating FTL!!
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The Ubernomicon
Eight year old girls GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 00:49:00 -
[360]
We should get BoB, NC and GS together and see how many times in a row we can crash Jita. Or better yet, just fill Jita with AFK players and not allow anyone else to enter the system.
|
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Vtreka
Gallente eXceed Inc.
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 00:49:00 -
[361]
Originally by: Master Spoonman Well CCP, **** you too. I've heard you guys are even holding off on raises for your staff, too. How greedy can you guys get? How is your income even affected by the Icelandic market crash? You get paid in Euro/USD!
Ummm you do realise the whole WORLD's markets crashed right?
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Snarker
Caldari Dragon's Rage Intrepid Crossing
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 00:49:00 -
[362]
Edited by: Snarker on 14/10/2008 00:50:55 Clever, they lock the old thread and switch to a new one, so the second one doesn't get as big. BTW, the dev blog was crap, it never stated anything. EDIT I also like how the entire devblog is based off of the assumption that is refuted by their own knowledge base (That is was a bug). ----------------------------------------
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Lord Saradomin
Gallente The Vorlon Empire Skunk-Works
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 00:49:00 -
[363]
It's me! I'm in this thread look at me!!!
As for the serious internet spaceships....bad idea but meh what can ya do!
I'm sure someone will find a way around the whole playing for free thing...wait i knows the answer! My Account > Subscription Details > Update Subscription...damnit....that's using my money!!!
Emoragequitloldongs!!!!
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Lockefox
Caldari Darkmatter Conglomerate Abyss Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 00:49:00 -
[364]
I will be reposting seeing as the other thread is locked and this is an important issue.
I personally have never thrown a fit over any patch, nerf or boost. I have been affected by just about all of them at this point, reaching my 3rd year in eve come December. I usually am the first one to laugh about these posts of "I QUIT" but today I have to raise my voice.
This change represents a monumental shift in what makes EVE different and (IMO) better than any MMO on the market. As a friend of mine once described EVE, "EVE knows that it's not the very greatest game out there, but it's loyal and will be waiting for you when you return."
The argument posted that it provides imbalance between high SP and low SP characters is wrong. The pure simple fact of the matter is you do it when you need to. Gotta get Battleship 5 or Adv Spaceship Command 5 (or any other capital skill in this example), go do something else for the month+ that each of those skills are going to take. Is CCP going to come down and "balance" out this by changing skill ranks? Of course not... No change has ever come against the core of the skill system. Yes, there have been things to make it easier to read or easier to use, but never has any character's SP been manhandled.
So, with the removal of "Ghosting" I am willing to bet that those at the top will keep growing (seeing as there isn't much left to train at the top) and the middle and lower players will lose interest in long term goals such as capital ships and command ships.
I believe that this change will not only hurt subscriber numbers, I think it will further imbalance the game.
But, to all of those who are screaming "I quit" or "-x subs" (as I am considering with you), speak with your wallet and check book. Show your opinion with action.
~Locke
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Julius Jul
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Posted - 2008.10.14 00:50:00 -
[365]
Quote: Skills continue training even if you are logged off or if your account is inactive (in the second scenario you can't change skill training, though
this is for me clear toughts "or if your account is inactive (in the second scenario you can't change skill training, though" - if the account is not active, thats mean youre paying not for it, then you cannot switching skills, you must first paying (subscribing) for it, then you can handle all the things you can do it.
if you are paying an account then the account is always active, olso if youre whith this is offline the account is always active, the skilling is always contining skilling and can be controlled whith tools anyway.
only if an account is deactivated, that is NOT PAYING for it, then is that an GHOST situation, but many people want not to pay but the skills still training - and that is now come to end.
simple for me to understanding this - why is it so difficult for many people for reading and understanding it ?
If youre not paying for an tickit for transportation for an vacation then youre olso not going to there, how many times you have taking that trip its always paying first and then you can go, if not you dont go - simple as easaly understanding that.
Julius
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Sarin Adler
Caldari Dark Shadow Cartel
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 00:50:00 -
[366]
Originally by: The Ubernomicon We should get BoB, NC and GS together and see how many times in a row we can crash Jita. Or better yet, just fill Jita with AFK players and not allow anyone else to enter the system.
/signed. Riot!
---
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Maddzy
Hematite Rose Bionic Dawn
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 00:50:00 -
[367]
A mistake in my opinion. Whenever I tell non-Eve players about Eve I always mention the fact that you can progress those long skills when your account is inactive, and they have always been impressed. This was one of the finer and original aspects to Eve that differed it from other money hungry MMOs. This will be a real lose to the player base.
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ttocszed00
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 00:52:00 -
[368]
/ RIOT!!! goooo
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Revolution Rising
Venture Research and Resources New MagnaDyne Enterprises
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 00:52:00 -
[369]
Edited by: Revolution Rising on 14/10/2008 00:55:01 I think this is disgusting.
- My drones don't all attack one target even when they are set to.
- My ui randomly repositions all my windows on the screen at seemingly random intervals.
- When I hit enter in a chat window at times it newlines instead of carriage-returns.
- STILL everyone is being lagged out in fleet battles on your old badly need of an upgrade servers. And god knows 300,000 x $18 is a nice monthly fee to be getting - and certainly buys a lot of XEONS.
There are a thousand errors in this game that you aren't fixing. But you choose the one thing that gives you more money each month, and try to sell it off as "good for the community".
VRR Recruitment
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Idara
Caldari Failure Corp
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 00:52:00 -
[370]
You'd think they'd of learned after the carrier uprising than to pull bullshit on us. --- Failure Corp [FAILD] - Failing to fail first
in EVE - Idara |
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DeODokktor
Dark Templars The Fonz Presidium
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 00:53:00 -
[371]
Originally by: wide
Quote: Now a single customer that doesn't log into the servers may not weigh heavily on our database infrastructure, just as a single snowflake isn't that heavy, hardly a measurable quantity. But it's hard not to notice an avalanche if it hits you. And that's what was starting to happen in our database.
Is it just me or is this argument completely lacking in logic?
Excuses need not be Logical.. They just need to sound like a good excuse.... They make it sound like they are going to pull everything out of the database when you quit, but instead they are just telling us lies....
I would welcome a DEV to tell me that it's the TRUTH and not a LIE...
I expect no reply..
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Bonefish O'Hallahan
GoonFleet
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 00:53:00 -
[372]
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Avon
Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 00:54:00 -
[373]
Originally by: The Ubernomicon We should get BoB, NC and GS together and see how many times in a row we can crash Jita. Or better yet, just fill Jita with AFK players and not allow anyone else to enter the system.
Stupid suggestions like that really don't help, do they?
This is far more likely to be a "need" issue than a "greed" issue, but CCP can hardly turn around and say so if that is the case.
Look, they are handling this badly, but the change in itself isn't a bad one. Expecting people to pay for what they get is fair enough.
Sure I am ribbing CCP here, but don't confuse that with malicious intent.
Eve-Online: The Text Adventure |
Danny Centurai
hirr Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 00:54:00 -
[374]
CCP hits self wrecking for omgwtf damage!
Mine will be the fail with a side order of fail, thankyou very much!
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Malcanis
RuffRyders Axiom Empire
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 00:54:00 -
[375]
Originally by: Danny Centurai
Originally by: Daevien Steiner Just how many ways can you prove in one year that you have no idea about your game anymore & **** off your customers? Are you trying to beat Sony's record with NGE?
^ This!
Only one issue 99% of player base will never get to read this thread and will only moan when they realise it dnt work!
The forums are going to go beserk on the 16th...
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CowsCANBark
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 00:54:00 -
[376]
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Lyria Skydancer
Amarr Developmental Neogenics Amalgamated
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 00:54:00 -
[377]
If I had a nickle for every fake "I quit because of this [insert change]" I'd be rich. ----------------------------------------- [Video] Support Barrage |
BiaXia
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 00:55:00 -
[378]
welp, there goes any chance of me to getting around to making some alts. It's a damn shame, too, CCP, I was just getting around to having some fun, I would have been willing to take a bigger cut out of my already meager college student budget just to play around with internet spaceships some more. Oh well, your loss more than mine.
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Cueball Mcfuzz
Groon Research
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 00:55:00 -
[379]
Originally by: Lyria Skydancer If I had a nickle for every fake "I quit because of this [insert change]" I'd be rich.
They're hitting me in the wallet while failing to improve massive real errors in the game.
I mean it this time.
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Neo Triton
Amarr Unamed Mofos
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 00:55:00 -
[380]
just cause your economy is ****ed, dont try and make us pay more
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Cosy Ceaon
Gallente Aliastra
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 00:55:00 -
[381]
is all about money
is a bug is a bug a buuuuuuuuuuuuug |
Shinma Apollo
The Graduates Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 00:55:00 -
[382]
Yeah, this pretty much guarantees that the nanonerf will pretty much kill Eve.
"So, Nanos are nerfed, who wants to dog**** around for 90 days doing BS V and Large Weapon V?"
"I hear Jumpgate starts in Q1...Hmm, November, December Janu...*cancels account*"
On a realistic note, you're essentially stating that SPs are tantamount to money, which in reality, people on inactive/expired account only take up storage space, and do not contribute to bandwidth consumptions, do not benefit from patches or expansions, nor any other benefits. Your reasoning is fallacious and foolhardy. Unless you are telling us that calculating a very basic formula, and what amounts to less than a mb of space is worth 15$ a month, then I think you owe the community at large a more thorough explanation, or face our collective displeasure.
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Rramar Claime
Amarr Task Force Zener Atlas Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 00:56:00 -
[383]
Originally by: Master Spoonman Well CCP, **** you too. I've heard you guys are even holding off on raises for your staff, too. How greedy can you guys get? How is your income even affected by the Icelandic market crash? You get paid in Euro/USD!
At least be honest with the players about your greedy ways: you're just trying to force users to pay you extra money by turning this game "feature" into a "bug" and making them resubscribe when they normally would not.
I suppose I'm wasting my time typing this as it's doubtful any of you care about what your subscribers say if it isn't putting money in your pocket.
This.
It's not even about being able to have an inactive training alt, it's how ccp handles its own community. You just s**k donkey ass. And dont forget, this is the same what you can expect from your ex community.
Did you know that in average a satisfied customer tells his experience about a product to 3 people while an unsatisfied tells it to 20? Wow this was the first thing they taught at the uni, wonder how your marketing division handles these amazing and wise decisions.
"I cherish the memories of a question my grandson asked me the other day, when he said; 'Grandpa, were you a hero in the war?' Grandpa said, 'No, but I served in a company of heroes." |
Leaningj
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 00:56:00 -
[384]
-1 account for sure maybe 2. I'm canceling my Everquest subscription too many nerfs and changes that ... Wait this isn't SOE it's CCP. Well same crap different name.
|
KeratinBoy
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 00:56:00 -
[385]
Dear CCP,
Why do you never learn? Everyone makes mistakes. Hopefully they learn from them and manage to avoid making them same mistakes again. CCP's ability to interact with its playerbase, on the other hand....
That blog was cackhanded lies. Since I have played this game, we have had many incidents, all of which you have mishandled. You display no learning process. You lie - cf, T20 cover up and this blog you just put out. A much touted game mechanic has been discovered to be a bug after 5 years? What next, a reworking of the billboard code?
Don't get me wrong, I fully support your right to **** customers and hard won respect away. On the other hand, I do not support the lies. Why do you lie and continue to lie? Is it because you have no spine? Is Iceland a place where deceit is routinely lauded?
Additionally, what recent trend do you speak of exactly? On average, how old are the accounts lapsing? Can you look at their skills or subscription history? Do they regularly take advantage of the advertised game mechanic? Are any of them annoyed by the speed nerf and have merely decided to stop playing? (I can personally think of 2 who have done just this) Or do your logs not reflect this?
I would like to know what direction you are taking this game in. Preferably with some sort of relatively advanced warning, like this silliness doesn't. What other trends have you noticed that need action - is one of them increased customer dissatisfaction?
As makers of a luxury item, I understand that you are in a limited market, especially in the current economic climate. Presumably, some of that avalanche that you have noticed is a consequence of your customers in equal straits. It is not the time to grub for money, though. It is the time for reassurance, to let customers know that you appreciate their custom.
"We game the system. We figure out how to maximize our returns." is a horrendous thing to write. Now it was written as being from a players point of view but it does not come across that way. I know a few people that play Eve in real life and more than a few through Eve itself. Not a single one of them responds to "Hey, have you seen the new CCP announcement?" with anything other than "What have they ****ed up now?" these days.
Stop lying, stop changing things on whim and stop panicking. When was the last time you saw anyone make a good decision when panicking?
|
Leila Cross
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 00:56:00 -
[386]
Edited by: Leila Cross on 14/10/2008 00:56:50
Quote: Skills continue training even if you are logged off or if your account is inactive
This is a quoted feature from your own player guide. Hardly a bug when you tout it as one of the benefits to playing EvE over other MMO's.
CCP, right about now you should be working very carefully on your next release regarding this change. A crisis management professional would tell you, straight up, you need to admit you misspoke, acknowledge that your actions negatively affect a large number of your customers, and do something very big to reverse the loss of trust and confidence of those customers.
I would suggest you start by implementing a two-skill que that is available only to paid subscribers. |
Jinx Barker
GFB Scientific
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 00:57:00 -
[387]
Edited by: Jinx Barker on 14/10/2008 00:59:48
I'll just try to post this as much as I can till CCP explains to us the so-called "bug"
Originally by: Mongo Loid Unintended? Bullshit:
http://www.eve-online.com/guide/en/g615.asp
It's listed as a feature in the original player's guide.
Originally by: Jinx Barker
I thought I would show an actual picture of the FEATURE they boasted of themselves for years: Skills Guide to EVE Online: By CCP - Note the underline.
<<Click The Siggy For the Blog>>
|
Deggins
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 00:57:00 -
[388]
Originally by: Lyria Skydancer If I had a nickle for every fake "I quit because of this [insert change]" I'd be rich.
And if you had $18 for every real "I quit because of this [insert change]", you'd be significantly more rich. |
Ghost Reaper
Evolution Band of Brothers
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 00:57:00 -
[389]
dont try and get more money out of us, u legitimised the buying of isk though GTC to 'help players who cant pay' and to also help yourself to a lot more money. Its a slippery slope
if ur taking this out, give us something new like skill quening, or multi training
|
Delvardious Kaesos
Caldari Ashen Lion Mining and Production Consortium Axiom Empire
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 00:57:00 -
[390]
This is exactly the type of scenario that signed the death of Star Wars Galaxies. They launch an expansion(Trials of Obi-Wan, or in this case "The Power of Two" in order to allow players to purchase second accounts for a reduced price) and then several days later you get the "Oh hey we're releasing something that completely negates and ruins the expansion/event we planned earlier so thanks for your money, oh you're quitting well that's because it'll be more EVE than before!".
Read up on the NGE in Star Wars Galaxies and read how incidents like this can ruin games CCP. ---------------------------------------- Today's Empires, Tomorrow's Ashes.
|
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Bonefish O'Hallahan
GoonFleet
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 00:57:00 -
[391]
Originally by: Avon
Originally by: The Ubernomicon We should get BoB, NC and GS together and see how many times in a row we can crash Jita. Or better yet, just fill Jita with AFK players and not allow anyone else to enter the system.
Stupid suggestions like that really don't help, do they?
This is far more likely to be a "need" issue than a "greed" issue, but CCP can hardly turn around and say so if that is the case.
Look, they are handling this badly, but the change in itself isn't a bad one. Expecting people to pay for what they get is fair enough.
Sure I am ribbing CCP here, but don't confuse that with malicious intent.
At face value, sure, they're just getting their pay. I'm just flabbergasted because it's going to lose them revenue of the majority of alts, and it screws the shit out of most of us. It makes sense when you SAY it, but EVERYONE is getting boned, just because they aren't thinking this through even a step or two.
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Jaxxon Voers
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 00:57:00 -
[392]
Originally by: Lyria Skydancer If I had a nickle for every fake "I quit because of this [insert change]" I'd be rich.
Payment Type: CreditCard VISA ** Credit card details Change Payment Method Update Subscription Interval Subscription Status: Cancelled Will be suspended11/19/2008 Total Number Of Payments: 22 Cancel Subscription Cancellation Expires: 11/19/2008 3:36:50 AM Remaining Playtime: 36d:2h:41m
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Allyourbase
Imperial Academy
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 00:58:00 -
[393]
Edited by: Allyourbase on 14/10/2008 00:58:12 WHAT !!
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Lyria Skydancer
Amarr Developmental Neogenics Amalgamated
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 00:58:00 -
[394]
Originally by: Jaxxon Voers
Originally by: Lyria Skydancer If I had a nickle for every fake "I quit because of this [insert change]" I'd be rich.
Payment Type: CreditCard VISA ** Credit card details Change Payment Method Update Subscription Interval Subscription Status: Cancelled Will be suspended11/19/2008 Total Number Of Payments: 22 Cancel Subscription Cancellation Expires: 11/19/2008 3:36:50 AM Remaining Playtime: 36d:2h:41m
Yes, it is very hard to fake text on the internetz. ----------------------------------------- [Video] Support Barrage |
Rramar Claime
Amarr Task Force Zener Atlas Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 00:58:00 -
[395]
Originally by: Vtreka
Originally by: Master Spoonman Well CCP, **** you too. I've heard you guys are even holding off on raises for your staff, too. How greedy can you guys get? How is your income even affected by the Icelandic market crash? You get paid in Euro/USD!
Ummm you do realise the whole WORLD's markets crashed right?
Umm you do realise iceland's market crashed and got wtfpwned from behind, twice, right? Go read some news before trying to be smart.
"I cherish the memories of a question my grandson asked me the other day, when he said; 'Grandpa, were you a hero in the war?' Grandpa said, 'No, but I served in a company of heroes." |
Danny Centurai
hirr Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 00:59:00 -
[396]
Oooo shiney idea that CCP might not understand how about we don't nerf we boost...
*CCP devs scratch head*
Ok accounts that aren't paying can train 1 skills, accounts that are paying can train in two character slots. Omg wtf CCP rule, wouldn't that be amazing? You have to encorage people to pay, not force, 12 Year old lemonade stand business model doesn't work with internet spaceships!
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Attak
Trioptimum Violent-Tendencies
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 01:00:00 -
[397]
Yeah, the fact that this is in the player guides as a feature in EVE and has remained there ever since release makes this move reek of money grabbing.
I'd recommend taking whatever slick suited young professional who made this decision and telling him to go work for SOE. This is not the sort of thing that CCP should risk it's reputation for.
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Rramar Claime
Amarr Task Force Zener Atlas Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 01:00:00 -
[398]
Originally by: Revolution Rising Edited by: Revolution Rising on 14/10/2008 00:55:50 I think this is disgusting.
- My drones don't all attack one target even when they are set to.
- My ui randomly repositions all my windows on the screen at seemingly random intervals.
- When I hit enter in a chat window at times it newlines instead of carriage-returns.
- STILL everyone is being lagged out in fleet battles on your old badly need of an upgrade servers.
And god knows 300,000 x $18 is a nice monthly fee to be getting - and certainly buys a lot of XEONS.
There are a thousand errors in this game that you aren't fixing. But you choose the one thing that gives you more money each month, and try to sell it off as "good for the community".
And this is signed too. Hope in the future noone will have any good thoughts about ccp.
"I cherish the memories of a question my grandson asked me the other day, when he said; 'Grandpa, were you a hero in the war?' Grandpa said, 'No, but I served in a company of heroes." |
UnDeRBaLaNcE
The Dead Parrot Shoppe Inc.
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 01:00:00 -
[399]
I see a lot of fuss over this... But I have played eve since the beginning and I am not disappointed with this. I always kept my accounts active if I was training something on them I was probably using them at the same time for scouting or other task. This only creates a bunch of fuss because the people making super characters while not having to pay but get to reap the benefits after selling it. ThatÆs where I see the problem, but it does not bother me since I donÆt ghost train to sell. dons proximity suit ( Fire fighter will know what thats for )
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Tareen Kashaar
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 01:01:00 -
[400]
Originally by: Malcanis The forums are going to go beserk on the 16th...
Except... inactive accounts can't post! HAH! ____________
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Mica Petrokov
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 01:01:00 -
[401]
I never realized how easy it is to shoot yourself in the foot when you're coding in python. Eh well, thanks for taking away my temptation to buy an alt!
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DogSlime
Caldari Perkone
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 01:02:00 -
[402]
I am convinced (as I have mentioned before) that Eve is successful in spite of CCP rather than because of CCP.
It's bad enough when they take a dump on their playerbase AGAIN!!!
Far worse, though, is the way they try to use weak justifications for it. A feature suddenly becomes a "bug".
It's like they thing "Ha! the playerbase are stupid - we can feed them any old shite and they will believe it."
Like I have said before, CCP behave like politicians. They're just like politicians, and I despise politicians.
Lies... rewriting history... obfuscation... weak justifications that EVERYONE can see straight through, and they KNOW everyone can see straight through it, but so what? They got away with it every time so far, and they'll get away with it this time too - like politicians always do. |
PsychoBones II
R.E.C.O.N. The Firm.
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 01:02:00 -
[403]
Edited by: PsychoBones II on 14/10/2008 01:04:01
Originally by: Cosy Ceaon is all about money
I'm stealing your sig. If you object let me know.
Edit: Nope wait, I like the other one better.
Quit banning me. |
Arconite
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 01:02:00 -
[404]
Well, not knowing what people were on about with Jumpgate - I must live under a rock or something. I googled it - http://www.jumpgateevolution.com/ - very pretty. Lets hope codemasters deliver eh ;)
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Malcanis
RuffRyders Axiom Empire
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 01:02:00 -
[405]
Originally by: Lyria Skydancer If I had a nickle for every fake "I quit because of this [insert change]" I'd be rich.
If I had a nickle for every one of your ill-tempered amarr whines, I could buy for 5 more accounts. Does that prove that amarr are overpowered?
Try and understand the difference: this isn't about any particular ship or module or skill. This is about real money.
Oh yeah, and being served a shit sandwich by a guy who flat out lied to us (see multiple links to wranglers own post about the feature he called a "bug" in his devblog tonight. I'll put up with a lot, but I find such naked dishonesty rather hard to choke down.
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Idara
Caldari Failure Corp
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 01:03:00 -
[406]
Originally by: Tareen Kashaar
Originally by: Malcanis The forums are going to go beserk on the 16th...
Except... inactive accounts can't post! HAH!
ZOMG.
For the first time in history we'll have a mass posting by.....mains.... --- Failure Corp [FAILD] - Failing to fail first
in EVE - Idara |
Feriluce
Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2008.10.14 01:03:00 -
[407]
Originally by: Julius Jul
Quote: Skills continue training even if you are logged off or if your account is inactive (in the second scenario you can't change skill training, though
this is for me clear toughts "or if your account is inactive (in the second scenario you can't change skill training, though" - if the account is not active, thats mean youre paying not for it, then you cannot switching skills, you must first paying (subscribing) for it, then you can handle all the things you can do it.
if you are paying an account then the account is always active, olso if youre whith this is offline the account is always active, the skilling is always contining skilling and can be controlled whith tools anyway.
only if an account is deactivated, that is NOT PAYING for it, then is that an GHOST situation, but many people want not to pay but the skills still training - and that is now come to end.
simple for me to understanding this - why is it so difficult for many people for reading and understanding it ?
If youre not paying for an tickit for transportation for an vacation then youre olso not going to there, how many times you have taking that trip its always paying first and then you can go, if not you dont go - simple as easaly understanding that.
Julius
You really dont get it...that qoute is from THE OFFICIAL PLAYER GUIDE, the "ghost training" has been promoted by CCP as a feature..not a bug.
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Cueball Mcfuzz
Groon Research
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Posted - 2008.10.14 01:03:00 -
[408]
Originally by: Tareen Kashaar
Originally by: Malcanis The forums are going to go beserk on the 16th...
Except... inactive accounts can't post! HAH!
It's gonna be slow- the ignorant majority of Eve will take a long time to realize that their alts are not gaining skills, so expect a lot of the fallout to come over the course of the entire next year.
Downside of this is that it will be spread out and even easier for CCP to ignore. Oh well, their loss.
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Will Hunter
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.10.14 01:03:00 -
[409]
i cant wait to see the pr backlash againts ccp for this maneuver
If they were at least comepetent they would have pulled this in a way they could have not been cathced
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Silvia t'Nias
Paramilitary Skanks
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Posted - 2008.10.14 01:03:00 -
[410]
Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Yes, it is very hard to fake text on the internetz.
Aren't you the clever one?
You can add all the people you want to your buddylist and watch them never turn green there, would that work for you?
Wait, it would just prove people don't log in, they might cunningly still pay for the subscription...
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Rufus MacMaranth
Gallente Shadow Front Tread Alliance
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Posted - 2008.10.14 01:03:00 -
[411]
Poasting in a topic full of whiners with an entitlement problem.
I fail to see why you expect to have your skills train while not being subscribed. The last I looked EVE was not freeware.
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Majuan Shuo
Ashen Lion Mining and Production Consortium
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Posted - 2008.10.14 01:03:00 -
[412]
Edited by: Majuan Shuo on 14/10/2008 01:03:38
Originally by: Jaxxon Voers
Originally by: Lyria Skydancer If I had a nickle for every fake "I quit because of this [insert change]" I'd be rich.
Payment Type: CreditCard VISA ** Credit card details Change Payment Method Update Subscription Interval Subscription Status: Cancelled Will be suspended11/19/2008 Total Number Of Payments: 22 Cancel Subscription Cancellation Expires: 11/19/2008 3:36:50 AM Remaining Playtime: 36d:2h:41m
Username: ********* Payment Type: CreditCard VISA **0532 Credit card details Change Payment Method Update Subscription Interval Subscription Status: Cancelled Will be suspended10/16/2008 Total Number Of Payments: 2 Cancel Subscription Cancellation Expires: 10/16/2008 9:14:41 AM Remaining Playtime: 2d:8h:12m Owing to lack of Eve-related content, signature removed. If you would like to discuss this, please mail [email protected] - Mitnal |
Adeena Torcfist
Caldari Dark Underground Forces Ethikos Trade Alliance
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Posted - 2008.10.14 01:04:00 -
[413]
if this nerfing on train time is going ahead, skill queing is a reasonable comprimise.....
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Malcanis
RuffRyders Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2008.10.14 01:04:00 -
[414]
Originally by: Tareen Kashaar
Originally by: Malcanis The forums are going to go beserk on the 16th...
Except... inactive accounts can't post! HAH!
But freshly resubbed accounts who find their skill has not completed, on the other hand...
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Joss Sparq
Caldari ANZAC ALLIANCE Southern Cross Alliance
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Posted - 2008.10.14 01:04:00 -
[415]
I figure I may as well post my discontent too, for whatever it may be worth.
Seriously now, we all know that this so-called "bug" was advertised as a feature of the character development in EVE. It is still noted (at this time) in the Official Player Guide hosted on this very website. We always read how CCP is purchasing bigger and better equipment to handle the server load. We know the economy where CCP is based is not doing well. Why should we believe the blog when we know all these things?
I wish I could expect better of CCP than this "1984" styled revision of history but now I'm afraid that I cannot.
From the experience of talking with and getting to know people within EVE, I'm disappointed that this will probably impact people in the military, deployed overseas.
For me personally it was always comfort with EVE to know that if I missed a payment for whatever reason (ill health, screw up) I wouldn't be penalized like I would be with other games. This "Ghost Training" really was a positive feature of the game.
I'm resigned to the fact that all I can do is throw my hands in the air and sigh. Oh well.
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IR Scoutar
Caldari State War Academy
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Posted - 2008.10.14 01:04:00 -
[416]
CCP Credability Graph -100 0 100 --X--------------<|---------------|---------------|> ^ You are here
why not even further off in the - way off the chart you ask ? because there are still ccp employes with boobs and i cant say no to boobs
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Commander Spectre
The Funkstars Guild
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Posted - 2008.10.14 01:04:00 -
[417]
Ok...so like allways you just love to irritate the players but this time you wanna make money at the same time and then try to cover it up with a blatant lie?
Man, what's next? You gonna start making fraudulent charges on everyone's credit cards?
Way to earn the players trust
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DigitalCommunist
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Posted - 2008.10.14 01:04:00 -
[418]
From here. Scroll down.
That was the last time they tried this. It was pulled after the patch notes thread was carpet bombed. Anyone from CCP want to keep arguing this was an unintended bug? If your search wasn't so sloppy, I'd be able to find the post where CCP rationalizes this change for EVE China because they pay by the hour or some such.
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Leila Cross
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Posted - 2008.10.14 01:04:00 -
[419]
Originally by: UnDeRBaLaNcE I see a lot of fuss over this... But I have played eve since the beginning and I am not disappointed with this. I always kept my accounts active if I was training something on them I was probably using them at the same time for scouting or other task. This only creates a bunch of fuss because the people making super characters while not having to pay but get to reap the benefits after selling it. ThatÆs where I see the problem, but it does not bother me since I donÆt ghost train to sell. dons proximity suit ( Fire fighter will know what thats for )
Valid point. That is your play style, and that suits your finances. Some people actually cancel their subscriptions when they know they are not going to have the time to play in a given month. The point that seems to really rub people here is that CCP is calling a game feature, that they themselves promoted as a benefit to playing EVE, a "bug" and claiming that the feature needed to be fixed.
Tell the truth, you want more money. Don't lie.
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Idara
Caldari Failure Corp
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Posted - 2008.10.14 01:04:00 -
[420]
Originally by: Rufus MacMaranth Poasting in a topic full of whiners with an entitlement problem.
I fail to see why you expect to have your skills train while not being subscribed. The last I looked EVE was not freeware.
It's gone past that. It's a change that they needed to do.
But they should've done 5 years ago instead of trying to money grab now by passing this off as a bug.
It's more about them lying to us as to the reasons behind this change than the change itself. --- Failure Corp [FAILD] - Failing to fail first
in EVE - Idara |
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Malcanis
RuffRyders Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2008.10.14 01:05:00 -
[421]
Originally by: Rufus MacMaranth Poasting in a topic full of whiners with an entitlement problem.
I fail to see why you expect to have your skills train while not being subscribed.
Oh I dunno, maybe it was because CCP themselves told us we could.
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Master Spoonman
FinFleet Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.10.14 01:05:00 -
[422]
Originally by: Vtreka
Originally by: Master Spoonman Well CCP, **** you too. I've heard you guys are even holding off on raises for your staff, too. How greedy can you guys get? How is your income even affected by the Icelandic market crash? You get paid in Euro/USD!
Ummm you do realise the whole WORLD's markets crashed right?
You do realize that Iceland's economy has crashed much greater than the rest of the world's, right? I would much rather be paid in foreign currency than Krona right now.
***
*Special thanks to Zurtur to making this signature for me* |
Angelic Eviaran
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Posted - 2008.10.14 01:06:00 -
[423]
Internet spaceship skill training is serious business.
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Col Carter
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Posted - 2008.10.14 01:06:00 -
[424]
Edited by: Col Carter on 14/10/2008 01:08:39 quote=Avon] This is far more likely to be a "need" issue than a "greed" issue, but CCP can hardly turn around and say so if that is the case. Quote:
There's much more elegant methods at their disposal, ranging from different approaches in marketing via public relations to (and I am not saying this is the case) worst case scenarios like applying for compensatory grants like a multitude of other icelandic corporations who have to meet transitionary budget challenges made available in abundance currently, even if still somewhat hard to punch through the bureaucracy for). When push comes to shove in a worst case scenario, which is not the case, there would be a multitude of other options available. Ergo the problem of viewpoint, a lot of people can't see the "need" scenario as there is so many other scenarios, and for them it becomes a "greed" scenario, or "something else" (at which point the argumentation failure in the blog post doesn't help - again).
Originally by: Avon Look, they are handling this badly, but the change in itself isn't a bad one. Expecting people to pay for what they get is fair enough. Quote:
I agree, but indeed CCP can't handle things like this properly, historic track record basically. But I can understand folks who are starting to see the road a bit clearer after the GTC changes, Power of 2, this change and particularly again the manner of presentation and argumentation, for who it becomes a principle case.
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Julius Jul
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Posted - 2008.10.14 01:06:00 -
[425]
Originally by: UnDeRBaLaNcE I see a lot of fuss over this... But I have played eve since the beginning and I am not disappointed with this. I always kept my accounts active if I was training something on them I was probably using them at the same time for scouting or other task. This only creates a bunch of fuss because the people making super characters while not having to pay but get to reap the benefits after selling it. ThatÆs where I see the problem, but it does not bother me since I donÆt ghost train to sell. dons proximity suit ( Fire fighter will know what thats for )
same here - my idea is that nobody knowns what CCP realy telling is !!
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Cipher7
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Posted - 2008.10.14 01:06:00 -
[426]
Ghost training was a workaround to make long training times TOLERABLE.
Example : BS 5, BC 5, or any other long 30+ day skill, makes you feel like you're making zero progress, its just no fun at all.
Workaround : Take a break from Eve while training BS 5 or whatever. Shut off sub, go play BF2 for a month.
My objection to "fixing" ghost training : It makes you pay to TRAIN your character not PLAY your character, that is fundamentally wrong and too close to Korean MMO's for me, you know those Korean MMO's where you pay RL $$$ for items and skills.
I understand the "database infrastructure needs money" argument, but its not like you get to switch the skill and train another, you have to resubscribe to train a new one.
CCP will end up losing money on this because some ppl have like 5 alts, they subscribe sporadically to train etc based on their current needs.
All it would do is force them to cut down to 1-2 chars.
I feel that altho ghost training was not %100 ideal for CCP or players, it was a good COMPROMISE, a middle ground, like "dont ask dont tell."
I'm not happy about it but I will keep subscribing, but supporting more than 1-2 accounts now is out of the question. ---
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Avon
Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.10.14 01:08:00 -
[427]
Originally by: DigitalCommunist
That was the last time they tried this. It was pulled after the patch notes thread was carpet bombed. Anyone from CCP want to keep arguing this was an unintended bug? If your search wasn't so sloppy, I'd be able to find the post where CCP rationalizes this change for EVE China because they pay by the hour or some such.
Your factual posts are good catches DC, but my Muhammed Saeed al-Sahaf was much funnier.
They'll just put that down to an attempted bug fix on the test server which didn't work out.
Eve-Online: The Text Adventure |
W4yLoUd
KIA Corp KIA Alliance
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Posted - 2008.10.14 01:08:00 -
[428]
Well I guess I'll have to find some cash to reactivate those accounts on Wednesday.
Fortunately I put some aside in a nice little online savings account. A really well run company, with great customer service and ethics, unlike CCP.
"Icesave home
We are not currently processing any deposits or any withdrawal requests through our Icesave internet accounts. We apologise for any inconvenience this may cause our customers."
Oh crap...
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MrSatan
Caldari Winehouse Holdings
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Posted - 2008.10.14 01:08:00 -
[429]
utterly fail
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Rawthorm
Gallente The Establishment Establishment
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Posted - 2008.10.14 01:08:00 -
[430]
Originally by: Master Spoonman
Originally by: Vtreka
Originally by: Master Spoonman Well CCP, **** you too. I've heard you guys are even holding off on raises for your staff, too. How greedy can you guys get? How is your income even affected by the Icelandic market crash? You get paid in Euro/USD!
Ummm you do realise the whole WORLD's markets crashed right?
You do realize that Iceland's economy has crashed much greater than the rest of the world's, right? I would much rather be paid in foreign currency than Krona right now.
Not that it matters tbh. CCP takes money in USD/GBP/EUR and pays for most of its overheads in GBP. All they have to do is start paying their HQ based staff in USD and they will probably come out better than before.
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UD146326
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Posted - 2008.10.14 01:10:00 -
[431]
Lol CCP u did it all wrong, you shouldn't have even told anyone, then someone training for a titan would come back to his account like 3-4 months later and flip lol..that would be epic.
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Cueball Mcfuzz
Groon Research
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Posted - 2008.10.14 01:10:00 -
[432]
Conveniently posted so that 'all those stupid players will be done raging by the time we wake up in the morning.'
**** CCP.
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sdthujfg
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Posted - 2008.10.14 01:10:00 -
[433]
Originally by: Rawthorm
Not that it matters tbh. CCP takes money in USD/GBP/EUR and pays for most of its overheads in GBP. All they have to do is start paying their HQ based staff in livestock and they will probably come out better than before.
fixed.
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Kif
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.10.14 01:10:00 -
[434]
To be fair, it does take CCP an average of 5 years to fix a bug.
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Alex Salas
BROTHERHOOD OF SPARTA Pupule 'Ohana
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Posted - 2008.10.14 01:10:00 -
[435]
Originally by: DigitalCommunist
From here.
good find
ctrl+f is anyone is interested
# On the Serenity server, skills no longer train when the owning account is deactivated. Tranquility is not affected by this change.
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Alex Salas
BROTHERHOOD OF SPARTA Pupule 'Ohana
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Posted - 2008.10.14 01:10:00 -
[436]
Originally by: DigitalCommunist
From here.
good find
ctrl+f is anyone is interested
# On the Serenity server, skills no longer train when the owning account is deactivated. Tranquility is not affected by this change.
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Cueball Mcfuzz
Groon Research
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Posted - 2008.10.14 01:10:00 -
[437]
Originally by: UD146326 Lol CCP u did it all wrong, you shouldn't have even told anyone, then someone training for a titan would come back to his account like 3-4 months later and flip lol..that would be epic.
This is close enough that you should have just gone all the way and done it, lol.
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Col Carter
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Posted - 2008.10.14 01:11:00 -
[438]
Originally by: Rawthorm
Originally by: Master Spoonman
Originally by: Vtreka
Originally by: Master Spoonman Well CCP, **** you too. I've heard you guys are even holding off on raises for your staff, too. How greedy can you guys get? How is your income even affected by the Icelandic market crash? You get paid in Euro/USD!
Ummm you do realise the whole WORLD's markets crashed right?
You do realize that Iceland's economy has crashed much greater than the rest of the world's, right? I would much rather be paid in foreign currency than Krona right now.
Not that it matters tbh. CCP takes money in USD/GBP/EUR and pays for most of its overheads in GBP. All they have to do is start paying their HQ based staff in USD and they will probably come out better than before.
They're one of the few who are actually in a comfortable position to do so, especially in the light of the current need of influx on a local level of foreign currency they'd even apply for faciliation >.<
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Avon
Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.10.14 01:11:00 -
[439]
Originally by: Cipher7
Example : BS 5, BC 5, or any other long 30+ day skill, makes you feel like you're making zero progress, its just no fun at all.
Workaround : Take a break from Eve while training BS 5 or whatever. Shut off sub, go play BF2 for a month.
My objection to "fixing" ghost training : It makes you pay to TRAIN your character not PLAY your character, that is fundamentally wrong and too close to Korean MMO's for me, you know those Korean MMO's where you pay RL $$$ for items and skills.
I never understood that arguement to be honest. I do pay to play, and I can play perfectly well while my character is training long skills - skill training doesn't pause if I log on and undock.
Eve-Online: The Text Adventure |
Danny Centurai
hirr Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2008.10.14 01:11:00 -
[440]
Originally by: Angelic Eviaran Internet spaceship skill training is serious business.
^ QFT. It is at the very heart of the game its like reversing the roles of Titans and Ibis's and expecting everyone to be happy!
CCP's EULA nicely covers their ass on the subject, however it doesn't cover their bank ballance.
'CCP reduce Lag today by reducing users tomorrow!'
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Majiir Sjet
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Posted - 2008.10.14 01:12:00 -
[441]
All those respectable persons who posted here that they have not used ghost training before are either new to the game, jealous of other people for doing so or CCP employees...
Honestly, have you guys EVER trained a 60 day+ skill on your subbed time? I don't think so.
I could perhaps have lived with this if they did not take away the 90 day subscription option (now it's between a rock and a hard place at 60 days).
As for those who are asking for skill queue-ing to be instated due to this - SCREW THE QUEUE.
HOW DOES CCP GAIN FROM THIS? The dev post was brief, useless (in all respect) and pointless...
How exactly does this benefit 1. CCP 2. Other players 3. The players affected?
I thought that GTCs paid for by isk had to be paid by cash somewhere in the food chain? (that is why we have so so many secure GTC trades going on) |
Bonefish O'Hallahan
GoonFleet
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Posted - 2008.10.14 01:12:00 -
[442]
Originally by: Avon
Originally by: Cipher7
Example : BS 5, BC 5, or any other long 30+ day skill, makes you feel like you're making zero progress, its just no fun at all.
Workaround : Take a break from Eve while training BS 5 or whatever. Shut off sub, go play BF2 for a month.
My objection to "fixing" ghost training : It makes you pay to TRAIN your character not PLAY your character, that is fundamentally wrong and too close to Korean MMO's for me, you know those Korean MMO's where you pay RL $$$ for items and skills.
I never understood that arguement to be honest. I do pay to play, and I can play perfectly well while my character is training long skills - skill training doesn't pause if I log on and undock.
What we used to have is the option for players to either play while they train, like you're saying, OR to wait a little while for their next big toy and come in ready to go. Now, you HAVE to do it the way you're saying, to the detriment of those with limited means, casual players, and anyone who just prefers that playstyle.
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Feng Schui
Minmatar Ghost Festival
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Posted - 2008.10.14 01:13:00 -
[443]
Welp, here is to hoping I don't get bored of the game. If there is nothing to look forward to on my character, why should I come back?
Maybe to check out an expansion, but doubtful. And already killed the alt account. Downloading WAR to check it out (I am getting kinda bored, was going to give WAR a try for a month while I trained LArge Energy Turret 5.
Welp, congrats I guess... "ghost training" an alt account may not have been as profitable as an active account, but when that account was only made due to the fact.. well.. lost revenue.
Oh, and the fact that I can't lure anyone into the game anymore, since this is now not a casual friendly game.
Yea.. a company. You guys didn't shoot yerselves in the foot, you shot yourself in the head.
Project:Gank
Pilgrim Guide
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Etien Aldragoran
DarkStar 1 GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.10.14 01:13:00 -
[444]
http://www.eve-online.com/guide/en/g615.asp
Quote: Skills continue training even if you are logged off or if your account is inactive
Congratulation on contradicting your player guide and knowledge base.
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Trzzbk
Caldari GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.10.14 01:13:00 -
[445]
Posting this again to drive home the point that outright lying to your playerbase is a great idea:
Anybody want to put ISK on how long it will take them to edit the Player Guide?
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Avon
Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.10.14 01:13:00 -
[446]
Originally by: Majiir Sjet All those respectable persons who posted here that they have not used ghost training before are either new to the game, jealous of other people for doing so or CCP employees...
Honestly, have you guys EVER trained a 60 day+ skill on your subbed time? I don't think so.
You think I would stop playing a 70mil+ SP character just because I am training a long skill?
Eve-Online: The Text Adventure |
roq deelim
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Posted - 2008.10.14 01:14:00 -
[447]
Quote: Ghost Training was an unintended feature where unpaid accounts of EVE Online were able to continue training skills. While this allowed players to run multiple characters on a shoestring budget, in all effect, this was a bug.
sorry to say that but suddenly "ghost training" is a bug? why wasn't that a bug during the last five years? you released a bunch of addons and updates but were not able to fix that bug and suddenly you can? let me get this clear: i have one account that was inactive for one(!) month since it was created 2005..i never considered other players training while inactive as "unfair". they were outside the game and forums during that time - and thats the actuall fun in eve. playing game - nor idlein' while inactive.
i still dont know why there isn't an skill queue implemented. players are asking for it for years now and many people posted more than enough ideeas how to keep the balance while having such a feature. (i.e. limited max. queue duration, an "queue" skill that allows you to have up to 5 skills in queue (1 per skill level)...)
even i don't use ghost training it feels like a slap into the face of all your paying customers reading such anouncements..
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Tobias Lee
UK Corp Mostly Harmless
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Posted - 2008.10.14 01:14:00 -
[448]
So all those people swanning off to play jumpgate evolution release date nov btw wanted to set long skills but cant and probly wont resub to eve once if they get bored of said new game.
Hm nice one ccp maybe once we get servers back down to 5k players tops you will be giving free titans to players getting new friends back into game ill have the leviathian plz :)
Ps ooh yeah -1 alt account i was gonna do bs 4 to 5 ( thus the nerfbat hitteth)
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sdthujfg
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Posted - 2008.10.14 01:15:00 -
[449]
Originally by: Etien Aldragoran http://www.eve-online.com/guide/en/g615.asp
Quote: Skills continue training even if you are logged off or if your account is inactive
Congratulation on contradicting your player guide and knowledge base.
Welcome to page 2 in this thread.
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Atomos Darksun
Infortunatus Eventus Obsidian Empire
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Posted - 2008.10.14 01:15:00 -
[450]
Alt account cancelled.
GG CCP.
Originally by: Amoxin My vent is talking to me in a devil voice...
Atomos' Guide to Forum Flaming |
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Judas Jones
Amarr Black Company
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Posted - 2008.10.14 01:15:00 -
[451]
Originally by: Avon Hey, your bug...
Skills continue training even if you are logged off or if your account is inactive
I found it in the player guide.
You guys better get in there and ninja-edit it.
Caught being decietful to your player base again CCP... forshame!
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Karyyana
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Posted - 2008.10.14 01:15:00 -
[452]
Originally by: Chaos Incarnate Edited by: Chaos Incarnate on 13/10/2008 23:33:16 Drama inc
Edit: I'd like to use this space to preemptively ask for your stuff if you're deciding to quit
Dude, your face!
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Angelic Eviaran
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Posted - 2008.10.14 01:16:00 -
[453]
Can I haz it? All teh stuffz?
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Avon
Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.10.14 01:16:00 -
[454]
Originally by: Bonefish O'Hallahan
What we used to have is the option for players to either play while they train, like you're saying, OR to wait a little while for their next big toy and come in ready to go. Now, you HAVE to do it the way you're saying, to the detriment of those with limited means, casual players, and anyone who just prefers that playstyle.
I'm a pretty casual player (seriously), and I just keep my accounts active. If all these people saying they are going to cancel accounts are from the "limited means" group, how much revenue are CCP actually going to lose? If they are rotating accounts then it doesn't really matter how many they have, does it? Just how many they pay for at any one time.
Eve-Online: The Text Adventure |
Danny Centurai
hirr Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2008.10.14 01:16:00 -
[455]
Originally by: Avon
Originally by: Majiir Sjet All those respectable persons who posted here that they have not used ghost training before are either new to the game, jealous of other people for doing so or CCP employees...
Honestly, have you guys EVER trained a 60 day+ skill on your subbed time? I don't think so.
You think I would stop playing a 70mil+ SP character just because I am training a long skill?
Nope but the noob training BC V for his drake will, CCP do not care about older players they want new players.
I personally started my alt whilst training BC V out of boredem; I switched between chars as each did long skills. Lots of people did this, I honestly can see a firesale on alts coming up soon!
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Leila Cross
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Posted - 2008.10.14 01:17:00 -
[456]
I, for one, have printed a copy of the player guide page (with the url, date, and time on the top) and stashed it away.
Quite frankly there has to be someone out there who knows a lawyer who is going to figure out a way to turn this into a "breach of contract" case. I can see it now:
"My client paid for two subscriptions based in part on the understanding that his chracter skill training would continue uninterrupted while his accounts were inactive. This understanding was reinforced by CCP's own player guide which touted this ability as a game feature. my client has been lied to, and CCP has breached the contract that my client agreed to when he initially subscribed X years ago."
CCP, I would be worried. |
Huan Hunglong
Intensive CareBearz
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 01:18:00 -
[457]
Another blatent CCP lie!
A BUG FIX????
Bullshit, your own player guide states Skills continue training even if you are logged off or if your account is inactive (in the second scenario you can't change skill training, though).
Best you update your player guide to reflect your lies.
|
Tri Midir
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 01:18:00 -
[458]
What are you guys talking about, I bought a car once cause when I test drove it there was a nice CD player in it. Of course a few months later they took the CD player away. Isn't stuff like this normal??
|
Hammeroffire
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 01:18:00 -
[459]
Economics is the social science of the study of the choices of individuals, corperations, and society during times of Scarcity.
Today is a very scarce time.
Individuals want to increase the utility of everything. Two things can happen to increase this.
Price of the same "utility" object can go down, increasing it's "dollar to unit of utility" value.
Similarly, The quality of the item can go up, without the price going up. This is a pure increase in utility.
Often times individuals will be willing to pay more for a good or service that is of higher utility than to pay less for a good or service of lower quality.
Let's apply that here 1. Increased the cost of the product. Unifying all GTC to the 6 month standard. This will work if the quality or Utility of the service you are providing increases.
But then you did THIS 2. Reduced the utility from the product. By removing the "Ghost Training" as you call it, You will SIGNIFIGANTLY REDUCE THE QUALITY OF THE PRODUCT, RESULTING IN A LOWERED UTILITY OF THE CONSUMER, RESULTING IN LOWERED DEMAND FOR THE PRODUCT.
Now you know.
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Avon
Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 01:18:00 -
[460]
Originally by: Danny Centurai
Nope but the noob training BC V for his drake will, CCP do not care about older players they want new players.
I personally started my alt whilst training BC V out of boredem; I switched between chars as each did long skills. Lots of people did this, I honestly can see a firesale on alts coming up soon!
I just kept playing while I was training. Why wouldn't you?
Your character isn't somehow crippled while he is training a long skill. He is just as good as he was when he finished his last skill.
Eve-Online: The Text Adventure |
|
Bonefish O'Hallahan
GoonFleet
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 01:18:00 -
[461]
Originally by: Leila Cross I, for one, have printed a copy of the player guide page (with the url, date, and time on the top) and stashed it away.
Quite frankly there has to be someone out there who knows a lawyer who is going to figure out a way to turn this into a "breach of contract" case. I can see it now:
"My client paid for two subscriptions based in part on the understanding that his chracter skill training would continue uninterrupted while his accounts were inactive. This understanding was reinforced by CCP's own player guide which touted this ability as a game feature. my client has been lied to, and CCP has breached the contract that my client agreed to when he initially subscribed X years ago."
CCP, I would be worried.
Yes, hire a lawyer and sue them over your 15 bucks
|
Danny Centurai
hirr Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 01:19:00 -
[462]
Originally by: Leila Cross I, for one, have printed a copy of the player guide page (with the url, date, and time on the top) and stashed it away.
Quite frankly there has to be someone out there who knows a lawyer who is going to figure out a way to turn this into a "breach of contract" case. I can see it now:
"My client paid for two subscriptions based in part on the understanding that his chracter skill training would continue uninterrupted while his accounts were inactive. This understanding was reinforced by CCP's own player guide which touted this ability as a game feature. my client has been lied to, and CCP has breached the contract that my client agreed to when he initially subscribed X years ago."
CCP, I would be worried.
As I said earlier covered by EULA, sucks ass worse change ever but they had their lawyers ready. ;)
|
Trzzbk
Caldari GoonFleet GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 01:20:00 -
[463]
Originally by: Tri Midir What are you guys talking about, I bought a car once cause when I test drove it there was a nice CD player in it. Of course a few months later they took the CD player away. Isn't stuff like this normal??
The CD Player was a bug, they just didn't get around to fixing it for a while.
|
Carsidava
Ars ex Discordia GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 01:20:00 -
[464]
Originally by: Leila Cross I, for one, have printed a copy of the player guide page (with the url, date, and time on the top) and stashed it away.
Quite frankly there has to be someone out there who knows a lawyer who is going to figure out a way to turn this into a "breach of contract" case. I can see it now:
"My client paid for two subscriptions based in part on the understanding that his chracter skill training would continue uninterrupted while his accounts were inactive. This understanding was reinforced by CCP's own player guide which touted this ability as a game feature. my client has been lied to, and CCP has breached the contract that my client agreed to when he initially subscribed X years ago."
CCP, I would be worried.
hahahahahahhahahahahahahhahahahahah
Seriously, think before posting. Sure, people are upset, but to sue over this?
hahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahhahaha |
Killer Rasta
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 01:20:00 -
[465]
As many of you know by now, on Wednesday, Oct 15th, CCP will put out a server update disabling "ghost training". Ghost Training was an unintended feature where unpaid accounts of EVE Online were able to continue training skills. While this allowed players to run multiple characters on a shoestring budget, in all effect, this was a bug..... Crap and lies. U did even promote ghost training as great side of eve on line,and now u r saying it was a bug. Why did u change thread on forumus,why did u start new one here,u dont want ppl to see what do we all think abouth your decision. That dev blog was writen as an answer to ppl posts,it is just resuming all our mesagis and giving us stupid reson why r you changing game.Cose of bug that was there for 5 years. Comon shame on you. What hapend in CCP,you got new directors,like hevy money wanters di..heads that want your firm to make more incomse and now r traying to seel us crapy storys abouth bugs. Shame on you.... This is what comuniti did say to your brainles proposal so ppl read this out before thay open a new thread: http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=896003
|
GO MaZ
The Illuminati. Pandemic Legion
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 01:20:00 -
[466]
FREE DIGITALCOMMUNIST ---
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Mongo Loid
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 01:21:00 -
[467]
I think it's pretty obvious what happened here. The result of that survey CCP paid for showed that a lot of people who suspended their accounts were doing so to do inactive training on long skills. So CCP figured by cutting that feature they'd keep subscriptions active constantly.
What they failed to realize was that a significant portion of accounts that use large amounts of inactive training time are alt accounts going through CCP's tedious grind for things like cap ships. It takes something like 8 months of training to go from nothing to a competent cap pilot, and a lot of that SP is wasted on skills that just aren't effective in the interim. So, rather than paying for an account for the better part of a year while it can't do all that much effectively, use 'ghost training' to cut down on the cost.
I think most of the people with semi-active alts in training like that will just drop them entirely. CCP's no doubt betting that enough of them will switch to full-time subscriptions, but I severely doubt it. |
Cueball Mcfuzz
Groon Research
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 01:21:00 -
[468]
Edited by: Cueball Mcfuzz on 14/10/2008 01:23:23 Edited by: Cueball Mcfuzz on 14/10/2008 01:22:37 stop deleting posts you gits
lol, the thread has moved up like 6 posts in the last 2 minutes, **** ccp
better check all the player guide and wrangler references are still around a few pages back...
|
Bonefish O'Hallahan
GoonFleet
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 01:22:00 -
[469]
Originally by: Trzzbk
Originally by: Tri Midir What are you guys talking about, I bought a car once cause when I test drove it there was a nice CD player in it. Of course a few months later they took the CD player away. Isn't stuff like this normal??
The CD Player was a bug, they just didn't get around to fixing it for a while.
quotin dis
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caio
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 01:22:00 -
[470]
by the way this topic goes, I hope CCP cancel this idea or they will lose cash instead of earning it using the wrong way.
|
|
Dominion Mine
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 01:23:00 -
[471]
I do understand that it is a business and you need to make money.
I am going to drop one of my alts because that was the only thing keeping that one alive.
On that note I would like to thank CCP for their incentive program on saving me money in these tough times.
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Cosy Ceaon
Gallente Aliastra
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 01:23:00 -
[472]
question: if all this was a BUG we all abused a BUG, CCP will ban all the player ?
common CCP respect you rules ban bug abusers nao
is a bug is a bug a buuuuuuuuuuuuug
Your signature is too large. Please resize it to a maximum of 400 x 120 with the file size not exceeding 24000 bytes. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] - Mitnal |
Mecanos
Caldari En plo
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 01:23:00 -
[473]
This account subscription ends in 12 days. Going to be deleted.
and some facts as others stated : u greedy maggots : u screwed gametime cards : ur rookie developers
and i could stand all that all this time cos i was BELIEVING that u cared for game and ur players.
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Suitonia
Gallente interimo
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 01:23:00 -
[474]
Notify: Damage Control II is already damageControl.
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Lia Athar
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 01:23:00 -
[475]
They will fail...
The question here is why they are doing this ?
They Need money to upgrade the Servers ? ______________________________________________________________ They donÆt give a Damm for the Customers We donÆt want this change, we love this Feature ( Not a Bug ) I hope they lose a lot of Money, and they reconsider this move. We pay a lot of money for this #*$#(# and they really donÆt respect us.
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Angelo Dell'Agio
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 01:23:00 -
[476]
I get the idea the moderation is becoming a tad over zealous ... cleaning up the rudeness and stupidity is fine, but there's stuff getting cleared out which fell in neither of those categories ..
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Leila Cross
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 01:24:00 -
[477]
Originally by: Bonefish O'Hallahan
Originally by: Leila Cross I, for one, have printed a copy of the player guide page (with the url, date, and time on the top) and stashed it away.
Quite frankly there has to be someone out there who knows a lawyer who is going to figure out a way to turn this into a "breach of contract" case. I can see it now:
"My client paid for two subscriptions based in part on the understanding that his chracter skill training would continue uninterrupted while his accounts were inactive. This understanding was reinforced by CCP's own player guide which touted this ability as a game feature. my client has been lied to, and CCP has breached the contract that my client agreed to when he initially subscribed X years ago."
CCP, I would be worried.
Yes, hire a lawyer and sue them over your 15 bucks
1. It's a hypothetical scenario. Chill-ax dude.
2. You forget, 15 bucks multiplied by x number of subscriptions multiplied again by x number of months subscribed, plus damages for a breach of contract multiplied by how ever number of people decide to hop on board a class action suit filed by a lawyer who works on contingency.
Sure, it's maybe a thousand dollars individually, but it's a huge amount of money CCP might have to shell out to all players subscribed prior to the patch.
Think big. As a group the players are more pwoerful than the devs. |
PsychoBones II
R.E.C.O.N. The Firm.
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 01:25:00 -
[478]
Originally by: Leila Cross I, for one, have printed a copy of the player guide page (with the url, date, and time on the top) and stashed it away.
Quite frankly there has to be someone out there who knows a lawyer who is going to figure out a way to turn this into a "breach of contract" case. I can see it now:
"My client paid for two subscriptions based in part on the understanding that his chracter skill training would continue uninterrupted while his accounts were inactive. This understanding was reinforced by CCP's own player guide which touted this ability as a game feature. my client has been lied to, and CCP has breached the contract that my client agreed to when he initially subscribed X years ago."
CCP, I would be worried.
You must be American.
Quit banning me. |
Bonefish O'Hallahan
GoonFleet
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 01:25:00 -
[479]
Originally by: Leila Cross
Think big. As a group the players are more pwoerful than the devs.
THE REVOLUTION BEGINS TONIGHT
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Idara
Caldari Failure Corp
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 01:26:00 -
[480]
Posting this gets you banned:
C/D? --- Failure Corp [FAILD] - Failing to fail first
in EVE - Idara |
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Athena Rivera
Minmatar Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 01:26:00 -
[481]
I find it amusing that ccp's own intended 'bug' completely legitimate in its very own player guide. They should follow avon's advice and go ninja-edit it before the intended deadline. I own 4 accounts myself although I will probably cut down one or two accounts in the near future as time progresses to manage my money well in life. I'll still play the game to the very end and my honest opinion is that it is best if CCP implement a skill queue that many ask for a long time, and also be able to train all 3 char on one account like other mmos which let you level up other alt characters on the same account without the need to purchase multiple accounts.
I doubt either of those two will happen but we will wait and see what their official response will be at a later time.
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Avon
Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 01:26:00 -
[482]
Originally by: Leila Cross
Think big. As a group the players are more pwoerful than the devs.
CCP turns of server. End.
Eve-Online: The Text Adventure |
Killer Rasta
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 01:26:00 -
[483]
Skills continue training even if you are logged off or if your account is inactive (in the second scenario you can't change skill training, though). As a result, it is a good idea to train short skills while you are playing and longer ones when you log off. If you want to switch skills, you can simply do so by starting another skill training. The points gained on the previous skill will not be lost, but you don't benefit from the training until the level is fully completed. The highest level for any skill is Level 5, but some skills also have an advanced version. Some of those advanced skills influence the same area as the basic version, others only a related area.
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=896003
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Cueball Mcfuzz
Groon Research
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Posted - 2008.10.14 01:27:00 -
[484]
Best keep posting the Wrangler quote, Player guide screenshot, and that picture, SOMETHING is getting deleted inside the thread, and there wasn't that much smack going around.
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Danny Centurai
hirr Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 01:27:00 -
[485]
Originally by: Avon
Originally by: Leila Cross
Think big. As a group the players are more pwoerful than the devs.
CCP turns of server. End.
Yep if that is End players won CCP empolyees with no jobs; jumpgate evolution released we all go spaceship pew pew there.
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Avon
Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 01:27:00 -
[486]
Originally by: Idara Posting this gets you banned:
C/D?
It is more likely that advising players to kill themselves was the reason imho.
Eve-Online: The Text Adventure |
Nova Fox
Gallente Novafox Shipyards
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 01:28:00 -
[487]
hey people complain that ccp doesnt fix lag or other issues and 'wasting' resources, maybe they dont have resources to spend on fancier gear or equipment or new doodads.
Pre Order your Sisters of Eve ship today!!! |
Avon
Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 01:28:00 -
[488]
Originally by: Danny Centurai
Yep if that is End players won CCP empolyees with no jobs; jumpgate evolution released we all go spaceship pew pew there.
It isn't a win for the players who wish to continue playing Eve, like me.
Eve-Online: The Text Adventure |
Rugs
Amarr Clown Punchers. Clown Punchers Syndicate
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 01:28:00 -
[489]
Too much heat from the other thread? Locking the thread isn't going to make your problems go away or change people's minds, quite the opposite.
If a simple "surge" of things would make you do drastic changes you would have taken care of the lag, macro farmers and ISK selling... you know, real problems that actually affect the economy more than a few days of ghost training.
The recent changes have been implemented with an iron fist and every opinion from the players have been flushed down the toilet before hearing them out (see the previous thread).
You'd think a thread with 1000+ replies within a few hours would ring a bell about something being wrong...
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TheG2
Gallente Dirty Rotten Scoundrels
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Posted - 2008.10.14 01:29:00 -
[490]
"Subscription successfully canceled"
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Lysander Kaldenn
Viper Intel Squad Sons of Tangra
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Posted - 2008.10.14 01:29:00 -
[491]
Edited by: Lysander Kaldenn on 14/10/2008 01:29:17 About freaking time! All you carebears letting your subs lapse to train BS V while you play Wow. Good job CCP... Your nano-nerf... not so much... But this garbage has needed to be fixed a long time. Why should I pay for training BS V while half the game is getting it free? Nice fix.
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Leila Cross
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 01:29:00 -
[492]
Originally by: Bonefish O'Hallahan
Originally by: Leila Cross
Think big. As a group the players are more pwoerful than the devs.
THE REVOLUTION BEGINS TONIGHT
XD VIVA LA REVOLUCION!!!!
Seriously though... The kind of response they're getting can't be good for them. There are so many things wrong with what CCP has done, I can't help but think that they may just have to bite the bullet and "tweak" their initial plan a bit. |
keuel
Gallente Heretic Militia
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 01:29:00 -
[493]
Edited by: keuel on 14/10/2008 01:30:13
Originally by: Lia Athar They will fail...
The question here is why they are doing this ?
They Need money to upgrade the Servers ? ______________________________________________________________ They don’t give a Damm for the Customers We don’t want this change, we love this Feature ( Not a Bug ) I hope they lose a lot of Money, and they reconsider this move. We pay a lot of money for this #*$#(# and they really don’t respect us.
They are doing this cuz they don¦t want ppl to PAY to train the char, but, as u said, they will phail,ppl will cancel their accs and they will lose money instead of earning it, and tho, they¦re not listening to their playerbase that they should and must listen as we pay to play this game and without us ccp will have no money and no servers and EVE.
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Magnus Amadeus
Amarr Hammer Of Light Libertas Fidelitas
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 01:29:00 -
[494]
Edited by: Magnus Amadeus on 14/10/2008 01:30:05 I thought that a developer, near or during that Eve-China fiasco, actually stated that the training while inactive accounts was good, and that it was an incentive for people to resub?? I don't have the patients to find this quote though.
EDIT: Oh and if CCP is trying to do this to effectively stop some meta-gaming, why not go after other forms of meta-gaming that won't maybe see some more coin in your pockets? _________________________________________________ Never argue with an idiot, they drag you down to their level and beat you down with experience. |
Danny Centurai
hirr Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 01:30:00 -
[495]
Originally by: Avon
Originally by: Danny Centurai
Yep if that is End players won CCP empolyees with no jobs; jumpgate evolution released we all go spaceship pew pew there.
It isn't a win for the players who wish to continue playing Eve, like me.
Then talk sense into CCP before EVE emo rage quits.
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Mecanos
Caldari En plo
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 01:30:00 -
[496]
Edited by: Mecanos on 14/10/2008 01:32:28 nvm... just dont get in trap gyus
im the character thas goin to "die"
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Annaphera
Minmatar Super Green Industries
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Posted - 2008.10.14 01:31:00 -
[497]
How many times on the original forum thread did I see people state that if CCP just came out and admitted that they were doing this because they needed the money, they could understand? Great, they did just that. Now, how many of those same people are vilifying CCP for admitting they needed the money? Hypocrites.
How many people here are pleading hardship, trying to say that a service provider should provide some benefit to those who can't pay for their service, just to get them to come back? A benefit, I might add, that the rest of us correctly expect to pay for? Does the cable company offer such things? How about the local health club? Should I expect the dry-cleaner I pay on a regular basis to do just my shirts rather than all of my dry-cleaning, because I can't afford to pay them this week? If they had been, out of the goodness of their hearts, and then stopped at however short notice, do I have a right to yell at them?
How many of those pleading hardship here have multiple accounts - some as many as 8? When exactly do you expect to pay for all of those accounts at the same time, or are you just leveling characters to sell for isk or transfer to a "core" account? Why should you not pay for that privilege, the same way I do? Why should CCP be upset when you say you are going to cut the number in half or to a third, when that's all you normally pay for at one time anyway? And why should I not be upset that you are taking advantage?
For those who say they have never heard anyone complain about this issue, congratulations, you just have. I have to stay online and keep my sub up to train all of my skills that take less than four days...why should you get training time and not have to pay for a sub? You are training skills that take a long time because you are at an advanced part of the game. Or are you just looking to cheat the company that develops the game and still inflate your e-peen? How is that different, ethically, from the isk-buying most of you profess to hate so?
I'm staying. My two accounts are staying. I'm adding a third soon.
+1 account, CCP.
Though I'd like to see at least a one-slot skill que at some point, hmmm?
|
Avon
Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 01:31:00 -
[498]
Edited by: Avon on 14/10/2008 01:32:03
Originally by: Danny Centurai
Then talk sense into CCP before EVE emo rage quits.
Nah, let them. Personally I think the move is the right one, it is just presented badly.
Inactive should mean inactive - no training, no research points, market orders frozen ... INACTIVE.
Eve-Online: The Text Adventure |
Killer Rasta
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 01:31:00 -
[499]
As many of you know by now, on Wednesday, Oct 15th, CCP will put out a server update disabling "ghost training". Ghost Training was an unintended feature where unpaid accounts of EVE Online were able to continue training skills. While this allowed players to run multiple characters on a shoestring budget, in all effect, this was a bug.
Torfi Frans Olafsson
Senior Producer of EVE Online
eve player guid states: Skills continue training even if you are logged off or if your account is inactive (in the second scenario you can't change skill training, though).
So how responsabel CCP employe Torfi Frans Olafsson can state lies on forums and dev blog. CCP please fire this guy for lieng all user of your product. Shame on you Torfi Frans Olafsson MR.Big lier
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Ted's Slave
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Posted - 2008.10.14 01:32:00 -
[500]
Originally by: Idara
Posting this gets you banned:
Overzealous forum nzai police ban your way to more lost accounts than fools!
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IR Scoutar
Caldari State War Academy
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Posted - 2008.10.14 01:32:00 -
[501]
buuurrrrnnn forums buuurrrrnnnnnnn
(sorry out of halfway sensible things to post )
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Col Carter
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 01:33:00 -
[502]
Originally by: Leila Cross
Think big. As a group the players are more pwoerful than the devs.
The subscribers are never more powerful then the creators of the product/service, those are the owners, they retain ownership, they make decisions, they decide on pulling plugs.
Smart service operators are careful with their service model, and yes CCP really stinks at PR :P Going over Google an abundance of external sites is being reminded of that already :/
But, do not make the mistake in thinking that account cancellations over this particular issue, or the trend becoming visible will pose a problem for CCP, not at all. There are such things are short term capital creation and long term capital consolidation. EVE as a commercial service is changing, in part because of adaptation to customers, and in part because of adaptation to market planning.
So yes, bad form and bad manner and silly lies. But it does not impact EVE, as EVE is already on track for more changes then just this one. More in tune with industry elements, mindsets, expectations, less the odd duck, ready for parallel product management, etc. Not the EVE the bulk of us fell in love with, but still EVE. And yes, marketing wise it is a sad demonstration of inaptitude, but given the timeframes at hand there is little else.
And even with original CCP folks elsewhere and lots of new ones, they all love this game. What it was, what it is, and what it will be.
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Danny Centurai
hirr Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 01:33:00 -
[503]
Edited by: Danny Centurai on 14/10/2008 01:33:42 CCP reducing lag by reducing active subs right? Its good for the game, not the precious server hamsters.
When subs hit 400 lag will nolonger exist. :)
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Erimisha
Minmatar
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 01:33:00 -
[504]
Wow.. Why all the smoke and mirrors? Multiple thread redirects, deleted threads (not just locked), official threads linked to locked official threads as a "Post here instead" redirect..
I really wouldn't mind this so much if CCP hadn't horked up the GTC prices by removing all competition which has driven prices to stupid high levels. The 30/60/90d GTCs created a nice competition that kept prices down so where Ghost Training wasn't an issue for most since a 30d GTC was (usually) pretty cheap. If 30d got too expensive than 60d cards were pretty cheap. Healthy prices for alt accounts.
Now, however, there are only 60d GTCs are ******ed prices which has already made me choose to suspend my 3rd account. With this news I have no reason to reactivate it (yes I set BS V to train before it expired and am half way done). If GTC options aren't brought back (30/60/90d) then I'll soon pay the one time fee of $15 to move my 2nd accounts 'main' to my primary account.
No, I won't ragequit over this but CCP *will* lose 2 account subs over this combined with their self-created GTC problem. Maybe not much in the 'grand scheme' of things but out of the last 12 months the 2 accounts were paid for 23 times (ie a whopping 1 month of "ghost training" that was used as a selling point of the game for the past 2 years I've been playing)
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Ted's Slave
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Posted - 2008.10.14 01:33:00 -
[505]
Originally by: Idara
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Seeker Ash
Minmatar Tribal Liberation Force
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Posted - 2008.10.14 01:34:00 -
[506]
Originally by: Lysander Kaldenn Why should I pay for training BS V while half the game is getting it free? Nice fix.
Why should you pay for training BS V while half the game is getting it free? _________________ "Even space ships pilots get the blues." |
Serilla
The Collective Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2008.10.14 01:35:00 -
[507]
Edited by: Serilla on 14/10/2008 01:34:47
Originally by: GO MaZ QUICK GUYS POST A DAMAGE CONTROL BLOG THEY'RE ALL SO STUPID THEY WONT REALISE IT AND EVERYONE WILL FORGET IT IN 6 HOURS
How ****ing stupid do you have to be before you acquire a position of power at CCP, just outta curiosity? (I'm pretty stupid, I could probably be your Economist)
This is true, he is stupid. __________________
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Mecanos
Caldari En plo
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 01:35:00 -
[508]
Originally by: Col Carter
Originally by: Leila Cross
Think big. As a group the players are more pwoerful than the devs.
The subscribers are never more powerful then the creators of the product/service, those are the owners, they retain ownership, they make decisions, they decide on pulling plugs.
Smart service operators are careful with their service model, and yes CCP really stinks at PR :P Going over Google an abundance of external sites is being reminded of that already :/ who are u? But, do not make the mistake in thinking that account cancellations over this particular issue, or the trend becoming visible will pose a problem for CCP, not at all. There are such things are short term capital creation and long term capital consolidation. EVE as a commercial service is changing, in part because of adaptation to customers, and in part because of adaptation to market planning.
So yes, bad form and bad manner and silly lies. But it does not impact EVE, as EVE is already on track for more changes then just this one. More in tune with industry elements, mindsets, expectations, less the odd duck, ready for parallel product management, etc. Not the EVE the bulk of us fell in love with, but still EVE. And yes, marketing wise it is a sad demonstration of inaptitude, but given the timeframes at hand there is little else.
And even with original CCP folks elsewhere and lots of new ones, they all love this game. What it was, what it is, and what it will be.
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Col Carter
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Posted - 2008.10.14 01:35:00 -
[509]
Edited by: Col Carter on 14/10/2008 01:37:38
Originally by: Magnus Amadeus Edited by: Magnus Amadeus on 14/10/2008 01:30:05 I thought that a developer, near or during that Eve-China fiasco, actually stated that the training while inactive accounts was good, and that it was an incentive for people to resub?? I don't have the patients to find this quote though.
Quote:
Yup, but same lack of patience atm. Also, in older times the "bug" was part of adverts to make EVE more attractive. Go figure. Retrieving one of those old ads now that would make for some sharp contrast with this "blog" :P
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Danny Centurai
hirr Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 01:36:00 -
[510]
Originally by: Seeker Ash
Originally by: Lysander Kaldenn Why should I pay for training BS V while half the game is getting it free? Nice fix.
Why should you pay for training BS V while half the game is getting it free?
Yeah agreed.
CCP balance by giving everyone: -Capital Ships V -BS V -AWU V -Large x,y,z turret V -Cruiser V
Have I missed anything? (yeah plenty i know)
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Ion Fury
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Posted - 2008.10.14 01:36:00 -
[511]
I have used ghost training exploit and thus have cheated in your game. I demand to be banned.
Oh wait haha it's not an exploit CCP endorsed it. http://epicwords.net/images/ohwranglerchan.jpg6 http://www.eve-online.com/guide/en/g615.asp I'm still unsubscribing if this goes through. -2 accounts.
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MataSanos
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Posted - 2008.10.14 01:36:00 -
[512]
this is to boost BoB because, BoB already have capitals alt trained
C/D ?
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Avon
Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 01:37:00 -
[513]
Originally by: MataSanos this is to boost BoB because, BoB already have capitals alt trained
C/D ?
D I have never broken the subscription of my capital alt.
Eve-Online: The Text Adventure |
Lhyda Souljacker
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.10.14 01:37:00 -
[514]
1) The announcement is a lie and slap in the face that is contrary to EVE's selling points and player's guide. 2) My sub has been canceled for both accounts. This was done before this was announced due to eve's other issues that CCP has been ignoring forever but this decision ensures that I will not return to eve.
As someone who has played for a very very long time, I am sad to see CCP change a core game mechanic that kept players coming back to their game.
GG CCP.
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Reno Shinra
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Posted - 2008.10.14 01:38:00 -
[515]
funny how they cannot fix the bugs in the game content. but seam to try and fix but that do not exist in the game content CCP when can we play the game for period of time without your fixing the wrong things?
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Raquel Trotter
Trotters Independent Trading
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Posted - 2008.10.14 01:38:00 -
[516]
CCP: Have you thought about what the cause of the "surge" in ghost training was.
Now I am sure that the recent financial events may be one cause, but for me personally the proposed speed changes were the main reason that I canceled the subscription of my pure-minmatar pvp alt in training, and let it ghost train.
I know a lot of other players are very upset about the proposed heavy handed nerf. Now rather than ghost training this account for a month, then re-activating it, I will just expire. Sure I will probably keep my main for now, but who knows how long that will last if you keep treating your customers this way.
If your motivation is financial, this will hurt you in the long run. Sure people may not leave completely, but I will bet that those who run multiple accounts will reduce them, selling them off to finance their main.
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Khwalik
Ghetto Kings
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Posted - 2008.10.14 01:38:00 -
[517]
One thing I'm rather curious about...and I typically keep my accounts active unless by oversight I somehow miss the due date to get a GTC turned in.
Anyway last time my main expired, I couldn't post on the forums,i.e. try and get in touch with someone so I could get a GTC to turn my account back on...this being my main...well it does have the bulk of my isk in it both personal and corp. And lets say by chance I have an extended leave from EvE on both accounts. Essentially with a couple of billion sitting yet I can't post on the forums...which I assume was some effort to cut farmers out of the forums...but it is also working against actual players.....how about addressing this issue?
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Danny Centurai
hirr Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2008.10.14 01:38:00 -
[518]
Originally by: Col Carter
The subscribers are never more powerful then the creators of the product/service, those are the owners, they retain ownership, they make decisions, they decide on pulling plugs.
Your simply wrong especially when subscribers can simply take their business elsewhere. CCP can have their game exactly how they want it yeah, they will not make a living out of it however.
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Arthmandar Valikari
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.10.14 01:39:00 -
[519]
This is a tough issue. On the one hand, if you're in the character selling market, this is an exploit for making free isk easy - Activate account, train up hugely long skill, set, leave, come back months later, lots of skillpoints, little isk. That's bad.
On the other hand, although I haven't yet left Eve, I've thought about it, and the thought that my character will at least have something extra, something new, something shiny perhaps, waiting if I reactivate my account, that would push me to come back.
So... I hope you're not shooting yourself in the foot here, CCP. There's both good and bad here. |
Trzzbk
Caldari GoonFleet GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 01:39:00 -
[520]
Edited by: Trzzbk on 14/10/2008 01:40:54
Originally by: Reno Shinra funny how they cannot fix the bugs in the game content. but seam to try and fix but that do not exist in the game content CCP when can we play the game for period of time without your fixing the wrong things?
It's much easier to delete the stuff you've already programmed, tested and commented out then it is to fix the stuff you should have written, tested and commented out.
That's apparently CCPs MO at this point.
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Big Al
Stoat's Ultimate Carebear Adventure
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Posted - 2008.10.14 01:39:00 -
[521]
It'll be funny to see the mass exodus of people who cycle skills on and don't even play your shitty game.
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Avon
Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.10.14 01:39:00 -
[522]
Originally by: Khwalik One thing I'm rather curious about...and I typically keep my accounts active unless by oversight I somehow miss the due date to get a GTC turned in.
Anyway last time my main expired, I couldn't post on the forums,i.e. try and get in touch with someone so I could get a GTC to turn my account back on...this being my main...well it does have the bulk of my isk in it both personal and corp. And lets say by chance I have an extended leave from EvE on both accounts. Essentially with a couple of billion sitting yet I can't post on the forums...which I assume was some effort to cut farmers out of the forums...but it is also working against actual players.....how about addressing this issue?
Create a trial account. Free and easy.
Eve-Online: The Text Adventure |
Drolic
Caldari The Dirt Dogs
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 01:40:00 -
[523]
I always explained this to friends as a feature of the game and a great one at that. I frequently quit due to sheer bordem and resub as eve is great for me in small doses! Yeah I ghost train each and every time so that coming back is looked forward to even more! However if this actually goes real I'll be quiting at the end of this 30 days and unistalling your game and never looking back. That's my vote! Bad move guys! |
Venomire
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.10.14 01:40:00 -
[524]
http://www.eve-online.com/guide/en/g615.asp
Fix your player's guide and stop promoting this as a feature.
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INF Wonderwoman
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Posted - 2008.10.14 01:41:00 -
[525]
This is whats going to happen, on the 15th many accounts will be activated as people start up skills on the characters they want to keep and start skills/move items from there alts getting them ready to sell/offline. Within the next 3 months the number of total subscribers will drop.
I personally have 3 accounts. I will be moving one character to my main account and deactivating the two accounts.
All I hope is that you will admit your mistake and reinstate this if worse comes to worse, if not EVE online will die.
-2 accounts here.
P.S. Your blog didn't say anything about why it was so sudden and unannounced and what will happen with other inactive account issues.
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HermanGelmet
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Posted - 2008.10.14 01:41:00 -
[526]
TBH this is just an incentive to go play all those games I've been....acquiring.. but never got round to playing, due to Eve dragging me back every day.
Oh well, I hear I have some pretty damn fine games in my collection, too.
o7
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Trzzbk
Caldari GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.10.14 01:42:00 -
[527]
Originally by: Avon
Create a trial account. Free and easy.
But then there will be a ton of useless entries bogging down the DB, which is exactly the problem this change is going to solve!
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jdok
Gallente Reaper Industries Eternal Rapture
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Posted - 2008.10.14 01:42:00 -
[528]
makes sense to me, want to skill up? you pay.
Yanks don't pay for their own houses and look what happens. CCP don't want no inactive EVE account bubble exploding. ___________________________
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Jaques McCroissant
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Posted - 2008.10.14 01:43:00 -
[529]
This is a brilliant idea, I must commend you. Rather than take my money for one month and not take my money for a second month of skill training in which I'm not logging in or using any server resources, you'll get to take none of my money! Clearly this is a financial stroke of genius where, despite inviting a massive loss, you'll make it up in volume.
Oh wai...
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Bonefish O'Hallahan
GoonFleet
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Posted - 2008.10.14 01:43:00 -
[530]
Originally by: Big Al It'll be funny to see the mass exodus of people who cycle skills on and don't even play your shitty game.
As you have summoned me, so have I come
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Feng Schui
Minmatar Ghost Festival
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Posted - 2008.10.14 01:43:00 -
[531]
not too mention free trial accounts can't post on the forums :p
Project:Gank
Pilgrim Guide
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Asharis Fyn
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Posted - 2008.10.14 01:43:00 -
[532]
Dear whiners,
Can I haz ur stuff?
Love, Fyn
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Trzzbk
Caldari GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.10.14 01:43:00 -
[533]
Originally by: jdok makes sense to me, want to skill up? you pay.
Yanks don't pay for their own houses and look what happens. CCP don't want no inactive EVE account bubble exploding.
At first I chuckled at this until I realized you're probably serious in making that analogy.
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Avon
Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.10.14 01:44:00 -
[534]
Originally by: Trzzbk
But then there will be a ton of useless entries bogging down the DB
:Goons:
Eve-Online: The Text Adventure |
Khwalik
Ghetto Kings
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 01:44:00 -
[535]
I've never personally 'ghost trained' was considering it...but guess that option is non existent....butI am rather curious to see why I can't post to get a gtc to reactivate an acount.....other thatn the fact that ccp is basically trying to access my personal financial crap which they completely dropped the ball on when I originally started 2 years ago...and is the entire reason I use GTC's now to run my accounts.
If they in anyway think I'll give them credit card #'s or personal financial info again...... I'll quit.
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Fred Ayurveda
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Posted - 2008.10.14 01:44:00 -
[536]
Edited by: Fred Ayurveda on 14/10/2008 01:44:16
Originally by: Asharis Fyn Dear whiners,
Can I haz ur stuff?
Love, Fyn
dear horseviolator, can I piledrive your mom?
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Avon
Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 01:45:00 -
[537]
Originally by: Feng Schui not too mention free trial accounts can't post on the forums :p
You don't need to.
Eve-Online: The Text Adventure |
Cosy Ceaon
Gallente Aliastra
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 01:45:00 -
[538]
Originally by: Asharis Fyn Dear whiners,
Can I haz ur stuff?
Love, Fyn
yes
is a bug is a bug a buuuuuuuuuuuuug |
jdok
Gallente Reaper Industries Eternal Rapture
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 01:45:00 -
[539]
I love the armies of alts disbanding and hearing their emo tears in the distance ___________________________
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Bonefish O'Hallahan
GoonFleet
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Posted - 2008.10.14 01:45:00 -
[540]
Originally by: Avon
Originally by: Trzzbk
But then there will be a ton of useless entries bogging down the DB
:Goons:
it's you
e: goddamit stop deleting posts asswipes
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Col Carter
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Posted - 2008.10.14 01:45:00 -
[541]
Originally by: Arthmandar Valikari This is a tough issue. On the one hand, if you're in the character selling market, this is an exploit for making free isk easy - Activate account, train up hugely long skill, set, leave, come back months later, lots of skillpoints, little isk.
That got tackled with the removal of 30D GTC's tbh. Even in those days it wasn't as widespread or simple as people wanted it to be, and dependant on GTC prices thus taking structural ISK out of the potential ISK, so to speak. With the 60D GTC's the margins were taken out basically.
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LuthienTinuviel
The Vanyar
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Posted - 2008.10.14 01:46:00 -
[542]
As I seem to understand it Torfi is saying that all features are now bugs? maybe that means all bugs are features like the time I discovered they ****ed up the passwords on the test server so that it didn't matte what you typed in the password segment it still let you log on (and which after some cajolling of a BH and patient explaining to him got them to shut it down)... that was an awesome feature I am sure they should implement that on Tranq now.
CCP - You are now entering the twilight zone where bugs are features and features are bugs |
Khwalik
Ghetto Kings
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 01:46:00 -
[543]
Originally by: Feng Schui not too mention free trial accounts can't post on the forums :p
Exactly....nor could I when my main expired....butt I was able to jocky enough isk to get a GTC at that time...course tha was before the started selling at 480m plus.
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LuthienTinuviel
The Vanyar
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 01:47:00 -
[544]
Edited by: LuthienTinuviel on 14/10/2008 01:48:08 eve forums are stupi double post -_-
CCP - You are now entering the twilight zone where bugs are features and features are bugs |
Lhyda Souljacker
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.10.14 01:47:00 -
[545]
Originally by: Bonefish O'Hallahan
Originally by: Avon
Originally by: Trzzbk
But then there will be a ton of useless entries bogging down the DB
:Goons:
it's you
e: goddamit stop deleting posts asswipes
CCP's gettin' all LOTKA DOT ORG up in here.
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D4RT N3RDiUS
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Posted - 2008.10.14 01:48:00 -
[546]
all ppl says is not the ghost training the real problem..
is the big fukin lie of ccp and the lack of rescpect to tell the truth to the player thaths the problem i wont pay one service to one company who sells one day one time one product and the next they they call me stupid and tell me one of his principal features is a bug and im stupid and i cand understand it...
So im an unhappy customer ..
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Quen Azle
Caldari ANZAC ALLIANCE Southern Cross Alliance
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Posted - 2008.10.14 01:48:00 -
[547]
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PsychoBones II
R.E.C.O.N. The Firm.
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 01:49:00 -
[548]
So with all the money CCP is gonna make off of this, they're gonna actually fix the ****ing game, right?
Quit banning me. |
Lhyda Souljacker
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.10.14 01:49:00 -
[549]
Hey CCP, since you're hurting for cash, what's with this? http://www.flickr.com/photos/ccpaquarium/
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Bonefish O'Hallahan
GoonFleet
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Posted - 2008.10.14 01:49:00 -
[550]
The funny thing is, there's a nice big chunk of the community that doesn't care about the ghost training but probably does care about being blatantly lied to
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Chaos Incarnate
Faceless Logistics
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Posted - 2008.10.14 01:49:00 -
[551]
Originally by: Cosy Ceaon
Originally by: Asharis Fyn Dear whiners,
Can I haz ur stuff?
Love, Fyn
yes
I asked first __________
Cannot read from face Abort, Retry, Fail? |
Cueball Mcfuzz
Groon Research
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 01:50:00 -
[552]
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Cosy Ceaon
Gallente Aliastra
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 01:50:00 -
[553]
Edited by: Cosy Ceaon on 14/10/2008 01:53:16
Originally by: Quen Azle http://img300.imageshack.us/img300/8584/lulzit5.jpg http://img300.imageshack.us/img300/8584/lulzit5.jpg http://img300.imageshack.us/img300/8584/lulzit5.jpg http://img300.imageshack.us/img300/8584/lulzit5.jpg http://img300.imageshack.us/img300/8584/lulzit5.jpg http://img300.imageshack.us/img300/8584/lulzit5.jpg http://img300.imageshack.us/img300/8584/lulzit5.jpg http://img300.imageshack.us/img300/8584/lulzit5.jpg http://img300.imageshack.us/img300/8584/lulzit5.jpg http://img300.imageshack.us/img300/8584/lulzit5.jpg http://img300.imageshack.us/img300/8584/lulzit5.jpg
dont post same thing 10 times
is a bug is a bug a buuuuuuuuuuuuug |
Khwalik
Ghetto Kings
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 01:50:00 -
[554]
Basically what I want is an assurance from CCP that ok I got to leave EvE for some time say 90 days due to whatever....yeah it'll suck I can't train....but I'm also shut out of the option to post on the GTC forums to use the assets(isk) I have spent alot of time to gain...and I'm supposed to just pony up actual money to play EvE when CCP couldn't properly bill my finances when I started....
I think not.
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deadEd
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.10.14 01:51:00 -
[555]
You know, if the announcement from the beginning would have been something along the lines of "ok, you've had this for years, but sorry guys, gravy train's done, we want to cash in on this", it would have been a lot easier to swallow. Trying to spin it as a balance issue (which was so stupid it was insulting) and now trying to say you're fixing a bug is just spitting in everyone's face for no reason.
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Daevien Steiner
ZipZoom Kaboom Ethereal Dawn
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Posted - 2008.10.14 01:51:00 -
[556]
Good job on deleting posts to try and keep the real number of complaints down CCP. Shows your fine upstanding morals and well thought out changes when you moderate posts down to keep the issue looking smaller /end sarcasm
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IR Scoutar
Caldari State War Academy
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Posted - 2008.10.14 01:51:00 -
[557]
you know that somethings wrong when goon post constructive criticism
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Clone 231D
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 01:51:00 -
[558]
Edited by: Clone 231D on 14/10/2008 01:53:46 So do you think CCP created this problem with the GTC restructuring?
Recent surge in ghost training, recent surge in GTC prices.
:tinfoil:
Post 522 at time of posting.
HEY guys right down the post count of your post so that we can keep track of where we actually are....
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Cosy Ceaon
Gallente Aliastra
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Posted - 2008.10.14 01:52:00 -
[559]
Originally by: Chaos Incarnate
Originally by: Cosy Ceaon
Originally by: Asharis Fyn Dear whiners,
Can I haz ur stuff?
Love, Fyn
yes
I asked first
u have to wait because my main is ghost training send me 15Ç and i will open the account nao
is a bug is a bug a buuuuuuuuuuuuug |
Khwalik
Ghetto Kings
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 01:52:00 -
[560]
Originally by: deadEd You know, if the announcement from the beginning would have been something along the lines of "ok, you've had this for years, but sorry guys, gravy train's done, we want to cash in on this", it would have been a lot easier to swallow. Trying to spin it as a balance issue (which was so stupid it was insulting) and now trying to say you're fixing a bug is just spitting in everyone's face for no reason.
Hate to admit but I agree.
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Bonefish O'Hallahan
GoonFleet
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 01:52:00 -
[561]
Originally by: IR Scoutar you know that somethings wrong when goon post constructive criticism
Originally by: deadEd You know, if the announcement from the beginning would have been something along the lines of "ok, you've had this for years, but sorry guys, gravy train's done, we want to cash in on this", it would have been a lot easier to swallow. Trying to spin it as a balance issue (which was so stupid it was insulting) and now trying to say you're fixing a bug is just spitting in everyone's face for no reason.
booya
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Quen Azle
Caldari ANZAC ALLIANCE Southern Cross Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 01:52:00 -
[562]
Edited by: Quen Azle on 14/10/2008 01:52:32
Originally by: Cosy Ceaon
Originally by: Quen Azle
dont post same thing 10 times
oops
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Daevien Steiner
ZipZoom Kaboom Ethereal Dawn
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 01:52:00 -
[563]
Edited by: Daevien Steiner on 14/10/2008 01:53:01 Double post, forums seem to be hanging a bit, could be another sign of just how "popular" this issue is.
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Sanadis
Gallente Sphere Industries Combined Planetary Union
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 01:52:00 -
[564]
Originally by: D4RT N3RDiUS all ppl says is not the ghost training the real problem..
is the big fukin lie of ccp and the lack of rescpect to tell the truth to the player thaths the problem i wont pay one service to one company who sells one day one time one product and the next they they call me stupid and tell me one of his principal features is a bug and im stupid and i cand understand it...
So im an unhappy customer ..
You are exactly right, and it still seems there are people here who are paying any attention to this fact. Screw ghost training I say, but don't freaking lie about why it was removed.
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Khwalik
Ghetto Kings
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Posted - 2008.10.14 01:54:00 -
[565]
This so needs a live Dev Blog immediately!
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D4RT N3RDiUS
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 01:54:00 -
[566]
http://www.businessweek.com/smallbiz/content/dec2007/sb2007123_358241.htm
ccp read maybe you can learn somthing
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PsychoBones II
R.E.C.O.N. The Firm.
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 01:54:00 -
[567]
Originally by: Clone 231D So do you think CCP created this problem with the GTC restructuring?
Recent surge in ghost training, recent surge in GTC prices.
:tinfoil:
Recent surge in node crashes, recent surge in insane lag in known hubs with less than 150 in local, recent surge in unpopular dev desicions.
Recent surge in inactive accounts with skills still training? NOWAI!!
Quit banning me. |
EnslaverOfMinmatar
Yarsk Hunters DeaDSpace Coalition
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 01:55:00 -
[568]
Too bad I don't have a 2nd account anymore, so I can't do the -1 account thing.
Skills continue training even if you are logged off or if your account is inactive (in the second scenario you can't change skill tr |
Angelo Dell'Agio
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 01:57:00 -
[569]
Edited by: Angelo Dell''Agio on 14/10/2008 01:57:59
Originally by: Clone 231D So do you think CCP created this problem with the GTC restructuring?
Recent surge in ghost training, recent surge in GTC prices.
:tinfoil:
No tinfoil, combine the GTC changes with the types of players selling the previous 30D codes with quite a bit of worry among subscribers over recent times with speed and other changes, add in the typical player expected racial consequences (the "omg minnie" and "omg blasters" reflexes) and you end up with a lot more accounts coasting as well as resulting in character sales.
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Aeronith
Ars ex Discordia GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 01:57:00 -
[570]
I'll commend CCP on their creativity - this is one hell of a way to get the community to completely ignore the speed nerf.
Forward thinking there, guys.
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Trupplupagus
Settling Tank
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 01:58:00 -
[571]
your game sucks and so do you
I try not to do business with liars
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CCP Mitnal
C C P
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Posted - 2008.10.14 01:58:00 -
[572]
Please note, posting images directly into the thread is liable to lead to them being removed. If you do wish to post an image please use the link option.
Please make sure that sigs conform to the forum rules - found here.
Finally, please don't promote anything that could have consequences on the servers and remember to post with respect towards fellow players.
Mitnal Community Representative CCP Games, EVE Online Email / Netfang |
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Chaos Incarnate
Faceless Logistics
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 01:59:00 -
[573]
Originally by: Cosy Ceaon
Originally by: Chaos Incarnate
Originally by: Cosy Ceaon
Originally by: Asharis Fyn Dear whiners,
Can I haz ur stuff?
Love, Fyn
yes
I asked first
u have to wait because my main is ghost training send me 15Ç and i will open the account nao
Step 1) Buy GTC Step 2) Send remaining stuff to me Step 3) I get delicious cake, and also a racecar __________
Sig by Neth'Rae Cannot read from face Abort, Retry, Fail? FFFFFF |
Col Carter
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 01:59:00 -
[574]
Originally by: Aeronith I'll commend CCP on their creativity - this is one hell of a way to get the community to completely ignore the speed nerf.
Forward thinking there, guys.
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Carsidava
Ars ex Discordia GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 02:00:00 -
[575]
Nope, sorry. This doesn't wash.
If you disable skill training for inactive accounts, why aren't you also disabling market orders from inactive accounts? Why aren't you also disabling RP accumulation from inactive accounts? Why aren't you disabling dividend payouts to inactive accounts?
Why are only skill points being hit?
Sorry CCP, this is an entirely unsatisfactory answer. |
Milena Rage
The Aftermath
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 02:00:00 -
[576]
What an idiotic move, you'll be losing 5 accounts out of my collection, my 86m sp char does everything that my alts can do - why bother having additional accounts that I hardly even use? dumping characters please buy |
LuthienTinuviel
The Vanyar
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 02:00:00 -
[577]
Originally by: CCP Mitnal Please note, posting images directly into the thread is liable to lead to it being removed. If you do wish to post an image please use the link option.
Please make sure that sigs conform to the forum rules - found here.
Finally, please don't promote anything that could have consequences on the servers and remember to post with respect towards fellow players.
Yes because it isn't good sense to call CCP out for being liars when they call something a bug that is in there own game documentation as a feature.
CCP - You are now entering the twilight zone where bugs are features and features are bugs |
Raquel Trotter
Trotters Independent Trading
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Posted - 2008.10.14 02:01:00 -
[578]
Originally by: Col Carter
Originally by: Aeronith I'll commend CCP on their creativity - this is one hell of a way to get the community to completely ignore the speed nerf.
Forward thinking there, guys.
Or... Maybe the cause of the "surge" in recent ghost training is because of the speed nerf.
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Chaos Incarnate
Faceless Logistics
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 02:01:00 -
[579]
Originally by: Khwalik This so needs a live Dev Blog immediately!
Yeah, that won't be a three-ring circus __________
Cannot read from face Abort, Retry, Fail? |
Seth Ruin
Minmatar Ominous Corp Ethereal Dawn
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 02:01:00 -
[580]
Edited by: Seth Ruin on 14/10/2008 02:00:47
Originally by: Sanadis Screw ghost training I say, but don't freaking lie about why it was removed.
This is the reason for such a violent backlash, CCP.
You still have much to learn as a corporation.
(Post #541 at time of posting)
-- (CCP Inconsistency)
Why cover it up? We KNOW it's all just about money |
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Garott
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 02:02:00 -
[581]
Recent surge of ghost training because your game remains a festering pile of shit. Add my 5 accounts onto the pile that you'll lose forever.
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Cosy Ceaon
Gallente Aliastra
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Posted - 2008.10.14 02:02:00 -
[582]
Edited by: Cosy Ceaon on 14/10/2008 02:02:22
Originally by: Chaos Incarnate
Originally by: Cosy Ceaon
Originally by: Chaos Incarnate
Originally by: Cosy Ceaon
Originally by: Asharis Fyn Dear whiners,
Can I haz ur stuff?
Love, Fyn
yes
I asked first
u have to wait because my main is ghost training send me 15Ç and i will open the account nao
Step 1) Buy GTC Step 2) Send remaining stuff to me Step 3) I get delicious cake, and also a racecar
i dont have 500m for a gtc can u send me 500m ISK ?
is a bug is a bug a buuuuuuuuuuuuug |
Clone 231D
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Posted - 2008.10.14 02:02:00 -
[583]
Edited by: Clone 231D on 14/10/2008 02:02:27
Originally by: Raquel Trotter
Originally by: Col Carter
Originally by: Aeronith I'll commend CCP on their creativity - this is one hell of a way to get the community to completely ignore the speed nerf.
Forward thinking there, guys.
Or... Maybe the cause of the "surge" in recent ghost training is because of the speed nerf.
Speed nerf is too recent, it is because of the GTC restructure. CCP shot itself in the foot, we pay for it.
{post 546}
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Lhyda Souljacker
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 02:03:00 -
[584]
Originally by: CCP Mitnal Finally, please don't promote anything that could have consequences on the servers and remember to post with respect towards fellow players.
When will CCP post with respect towards it's player base? The Dev Blog is a lie as has been posted by other players with proof to back it up. If CCP can't post with respect what makes you think you can encourage players to do the same? Lead by example, etc, etc.
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Skut Farkuss
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Posted - 2008.10.14 02:03:00 -
[585]
Edited by: Skut Farkuss on 14/10/2008 02:03:31 Hey mods, you deleted the ******ed (but not offensive) post of the guy I insulted when you deleted mine, might want to put that back.
Also, is it really that offensive to say that any player who supports this change is a traitor to his fellow players who use ghost training, even if he doesn't use it himself?
I don't think it is.
Looking forward to being deleted again! (Fascists!)
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Angelo Dell'Agio
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Posted - 2008.10.14 02:03:00 -
[586]
Originally by: Clone 231D Edited by: Clone 231D on 14/10/2008 02:02:27
Originally by: Raquel Trotter
Originally by: Col Carter
Originally by: Aeronith I'll commend CCP on their creativity - this is one hell of a way to get the community to completely ignore the speed nerf.
Forward thinking there, guys.
Or... Maybe the cause of the "surge" in recent ghost training is because of the speed nerf.
Speed nerf is too recent, it is because of the GTC restructure. CCP shot itself in the foot, we pay for it.
{post 546}
Pretty much it yes.
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Cornette
Gallente Black Screen of Death HUZZAH FEDERATION
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Posted - 2008.10.14 02:03:00 -
[587]
I can understand if CCP have to withdraw this service because it cost them to much money now that the banking crisis is sweeping around the world. But lying to the players, your customers, and calling the feature a bug that we have exploited for years are downright insulting. Not only that you have now effectively given yourself a bad rep that will linger in people's mind for a long time to come. This could hurt you more in the long run then a few thousand canceled alt-accounts will do now.
Or maybe this is just a clever plan to **** off enough old timers so they leave and you can continue dumbing down EVE I will continue to pay for my 3 accounts, for now, but this add up on top of the other things I don't like where EVE is going. If this is a continuing trend from you CCP then one day you will have your wish full filled and there will be no old players left. Except Avon of course.
/Cornette
PS. you really need to hire a PR-consult, or you will continue to shoot yourself in the foot like this.
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GO MaZ
The Illuminati. Pandemic Legion
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 02:04:00 -
[588]
Edited by: GO MaZ on 14/10/2008 02:04:09 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=66YBCShrpJM
I AINT AFRAID OF NO GHOST! ---
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Morena Maganda
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 02:05:00 -
[589]
Boo...fail...
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Captian Sam
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Posted - 2008.10.14 02:06:00 -
[590]
Edited by: Captian Sam on 14/10/2008 02:06:20
Originally by: Clone 231D Edited by: Clone 231D on 14/10/2008 01:53:46 So do you think CCP created this problem with the GTC restructuring?
Recent surge in ghost training, recent surge in GTC prices.
By CCP's reasoning, they are disabling ghost training because you are not paying them a subscription fee. The next logical step is to kill the GTC for isk trade off and force everyone to pay a monthly fee. It's all making sense now isn't it?
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D4RT N3RDiUS
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Posted - 2008.10.14 02:06:00 -
[591]
Quote: Finally, please don't promote anything that could have consequences on the servers and remember to post with respect towards fellow players.
so you are telling me i cant say your devs lie to me ?? in the face and tell im stupid i got a bug for 5 years old wen you say to me this is one of the principal features of the game ??
anithing hapen to the server is consequence of your lack of inteligence ccp google eve online ghost training and chek this is a bad publicity to you you make it to yourself thats how ccp deals with the costumers they say to them SUCK IT AND PAY YOU SUKER...
in one post i read one ppl who say we need one revolution and ccp maybe you got it im tired of being bullied from the gm staff and devs so now is your time hope the article in the magazines dont afect you or maybe some demand from one crazy american to your compani dont realize but who cares im quiting now.. hope your best :)
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Yggdrassill Yeltsin
The Greater Goon GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.10.14 02:06:00 -
[592]
Originally by: Captian Sam
Originally by: Clone 231D Edited by: Clone 231D on 14/10/2008 01:53:46 So do you think CCP created this problem with the GTC restructuring?
Recent surge in ghost training, recent surge in GTC prices.
By CCP's reasoning, they are disabling ghost training because you are not paying them a subscription fee. The next logical step is to kill the GTC for isk trade off and force everyone to may a monthly fee. It's all making sense now isn't it?
yo you misspelled 'captain'
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Shepard Book
Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2008.10.14 02:07:00 -
[593]
I see this as a knee jerk reaction to CCP losing customers to other MMOs (mainly to Warhammer) and trying to force people to pay for accounts if they decide they want to train the character while trying out another game.
The thing is this will only sour the taste for some not to return. Those that were on the fence and trying WH might not return because CCP decided to go this route. CCP does some things good like free expansions but the way they run 0.0 (favoritism)and now this really makes me wonder why I pay CCP.
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Ishbuanium
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 02:07:00 -
[594]
Dear CCP
Stop Lying to us.
Love, Your Playerbase
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Zenst
Gallente Omniscient Order Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2008.10.14 02:08:00 -
[595]
Ironicly the people this actualy hits most are unable to reply as there accounts are in ghost mode and you cant post unless you have an active account.
Draw your own conclusions with regards to a well recieved change
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Trupplupagus
Settling Tank
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Posted - 2008.10.14 02:08:00 -
[596]
Originally by: Ishbuanium Dear CCP
Stop Lying to us.
Love, Your Playerbase
Dear playerbase,
Foolish players, stop your rabblerousing. Clearly you just want to make trouble, there's no real issue here.
Screw you,
CCP
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Carsidava
Ars ex Discordia GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 02:08:00 -
[597]
Nope, sorry. This doesn't wash.
If you disable skill training for inactive accounts, why aren't you also disabling market orders from inactive accounts? Why aren't you also disabling RP accumulation from inactive accounts? Why aren't you disabling dividend payouts to inactive accounts?
Why are only skill points being hit?
Sorry CCP, this is an entirely unsatisfactory answer. |
Paul Barker
Dark Knights of Deneb Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2008.10.14 02:09:00 -
[598]
Well how about implemnting multi trains on 1 account then
Since you say only active accounts can be trained, why not allow all character holes on that account to train at the same time.
Just think of the revenue boost from all them character transfers also
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Neliel Oderschvank
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 02:09:00 -
[599]
hhhmmm im not sure what to say about this.... but for my own opinion i think CCP planned this...
first was turning the 90day GTC into a 60day for almost the same price... so meaning.. you play less for the price of 90day whcih i think is ripping you off.
and now, one of the most nice feature about EVE. is having a character grow whilist inactive. I mean common.... an inactive account is limited on its remaining days of training anyway its not like someone could train a character forever without paying and its not like someone could pay for a day just to change another 30day+ skill or something.
so yeah pretty much a rip off you pocket money.
the 90day to 60day and now this....
if this was a bug? then i think this should have been fixed way before Trinity.... might not be fair for CCP but its also now not fair for people who wouldnt able to use this feature while alot of EVE gamers already have.
I know alot of people do have a character in training on an inactive account or ran out subscription but i think this people also have secondary main alts which are prolly active and paid for while they dont have to worry about their other account.
CCP shouldnt remove this as i think this is one of the feature that its making this game a lil bit more attractive to customer/gamers for its uniqueness. (*being able to grow at a certain limited time without paying).
Bah....
I have never had any complaints against CCP until today....
wanna fix a bug, fix the LAG first now thats a bug.
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Trzzbk
Caldari GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.10.14 02:09:00 -
[600]
Edited by: Trzzbk on 14/10/2008 02:09:37
Originally by: Cornette PS. you really need to hire a PR-consult, or you will continue to shoot yourself in the foot like this.
Or they could save time, money and effort by just not doing the most counter-intuitive thing at every opportunity.
EDIT: Oh hey the post I'm quoting got deleted.
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Cyrus Doul
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Posted - 2008.10.14 02:09:00 -
[601]
I'm ****ed. When I go home for the four summer months of the college year I'm on dial up. Yeah yeah I know, but the parents don't want to pay 70-100 dollars for cellphone/satellite plans and the cable company, Comcast, is corrupt and charges 5000 USD per phone pole to run a cable for you. My family owns 5 phone poles. So Comcast would cost an eighth of the house to get installed. I was going to start suspend training him towards a jump freighter since that's basically the pinnacle of a hauler alt anyways. Guess thats not happening though.
I wonder if this is more about ccp worried about the banks, UK did use anti terrorism laws to freeze Icelandic bank funds by not allowing the icelandic government to shut down its bank's UK brancesto protect investors as Iceland slid even further into bankruptcy over last week. Iceland's bad economy = ccp trying to make more money off us by screwing us over just like the 60 day gtc at the 90 day price.
The bottom line of the article basically explains why (link goes to bbc.co.uk)
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Yeknom Nam
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Posted - 2008.10.14 02:10:00 -
[602]
I really do feel like I have been taken advantage of. I spent a few days trying to decide whether any game was worth paying for two accounts. Ghost training was the selling point for my second account, and less than a week after I buy my second account using the "Power of Two," this comes to light. So I do feel like there was some "bait and switch" here. And I am really missing that $50. Wonder what the credit card company would say.
What makes the second account so damn appealing is the fact that you guys only let us train one character per account at a time...
BTW I saved some screenies of http://www.eve-online.com/guide/en/g615.asp for posterity.
So my main account that is currently inactive and has 15 days left on a skill, is he gonna stop training at his current point on Wed, or is he gonna be reset to where he should be when the account went inactive?
Kind of a familiar situation here. Charge for something that used to be free with very little overhead to begin with. True Price of SMS
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GypAtheNooB
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 02:10:00 -
[603]
OMG what a huge crock of sh*t This is a feature that ppl MAY use when training f**king rediculously long skills. It happens once in a blue moon (i have done it) mostly i notice its used by servicemen who cant play a game like this in afghanistan or iraq, who make use of it to finally train battleship V. Why the f*ck would u change this?? Are u determined to chase every serious player from the game??
Hell why not close this thread now and tell us We apologize for the inconvenience this has caused you and wish you a speedy recovery.
How about u learn something about customer service and looking after ur costomers b4 u lose them all.
actually heres a better one we cannot make any reimbursement when we unable to verify that it was due to a game defect or server problem. That does not mean we are in any doubt of your description. On the contrary, we completely trust you. But we all GMs have to stick closely to the reimbursement policies. We appreciate your understanding and wish you a quick recovery. Yah thats a better one close the thread with that.
YES IM FULLY OVER UR BULLSH*T
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Talitana
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.10.14 02:13:00 -
[604]
Quote: We truly hope that the community will understand our actions and continue to enjoy playing EVE as much as we enjoy making it.
Kiss my ass
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0blivion
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 02:14:00 -
[605]
blatant lies and removing what made players return to the game epic. |
gata salvaje
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 02:15:00 -
[606]
Originally by: Paul Barker Well how about implemnting multi trains on 1 account then
Since you say only active accounts can be trained, why not allow all character holes on that account to train at the same time.
Just think of the revenue boost from all them character transfers also
this tbfh.
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Ishbuanium
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 02:15:00 -
[607]
Originally by: Trupplupagus
Originally by: Ishbuanium Dear CCP
Stop Lying to us.
Love, Your Playerbase
Dear playerbase,
Foolish players, stop your rabblerousing. Clearly you just want to make trouble, there's no real issue here.
Screw you,
CCP
Sorry, you got to be more believable. Sugarcoat it a bit and circle around the issue without answering the blaringly obvious accusation.
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Yggdrassill Yeltsin
The Greater Goon GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 02:16:00 -
[608]
Dear players,
This was, in fact, a bug. Over the course of the last 5 years we presented it as a feature because we wanted to give you some use of it and didn't want to mess with getting rid of it- we apologize for any confusion or inconvenience. In light of current difficult economic circumstances, we've decided to close that loophole. Unfortunately, that means that some of you will not be able to use the 'ghost training' feature that you've become accustomed to. This change was unavoidable, and in order to present you with a better gameplay experience we made the hard choice to go through with it. This change will be put into effect in 30 days time, and we will entertain ideas for changes to other skill training messages through the CSM mechanism- please speak with your CSM representatives and we will be sure to give time and thought to your suggestions. We apologize sincerely for this. If you have any questions or concerns, we would like very much to hear them.
Look dude this isn't even my job I just busted that out
You guys are dumb as toast
|
Yggdrassill Yeltsin
The Greater Goon GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 02:16:00 -
[609]
Dear players,
This was, in fact, a bug. Over the course of the last 5 years we presented it as a feature because we wanted to give you some use of it and didn't want to mess with getting rid of it- we apologize for any confusion or inconvenience. In light of current difficult economic circumstances, we've decided to close that loophole. Unfortunately, that means that some of you will not be able to use the 'ghost training' feature that you've become accustomed to. This change was unavoidable, and in order to present you with a better gameplay experience we made the hard choice to go through with it. This change will be put into effect in 30 days time, and we will entertain ideas for changes to other skill training messages through the CSM mechanism- please speak with your CSM representatives and we will be sure to give time and thought to your suggestions. We apologize sincerely for this. If you have any questions or concerns, we would like very much to hear them.
Look dude this isn't even my job I just busted that out
You guys are dumb as toast
|
Ishbuanium
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 02:18:00 -
[610]
Originally by: Yggdrassill Yeltsin Dear players,
This was, in fact, a bug. Over the course of the last 5 years we presented it as a feature because we wanted to give you some use of it and didn't want to mess with getting rid of it- we apologize for any confusion or inconvenience. In light of current difficult economic circumstances, we've decided to close that loophole. Unfortunately, that means that some of you will not be able to use the 'ghost training' feature that you've become accustomed to. This change was unavoidable, and in order to present you with a better gameplay experience we made the hard choice to go through with it. This change will be put into effect in 30 days time, and we will entertain ideas for changes to other skill training messages through the CSM mechanism- please speak with your CSM representatives and we will be sure to give time and thought to your suggestions. We apologize sincerely for this. If you have any questions or concerns, we would like very much to hear them.
Look dude this isn't even my job I just busted that out
You guys are dumb as toast
CCP Hire this man, as it appears you desperately need his extremely non unique talents (no offense )
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Nas Nalgas
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 02:19:00 -
[611]
you can see where a game is going when the players are more interested in a *cough* BUG *cough* then in new content
Solution: fire the devs working on ambulation, realocate the resources to ghost training
more money to ccp, players happy
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Chaos Incarnate
Faceless Logistics
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 02:19:00 -
[612]
Originally by: Cosy Ceaon Edited by: Cosy Ceaon on 14/10/2008 02:02:22
Originally by: Chaos Incarnate
Step 1) Buy GTC Step 2) Send remaining stuff to me Step 3) I get delicious cake, and also a racecar
i dont have 500m for a gtc can u send me 500m ISK ?
If you don't even have 500m, why are you wasting my time? JEEZ __________
Cannot read from face Abort, Retry, Fail? |
Borg Zorg
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 02:19:00 -
[613]
So CCp what will be the next BUG we will have to pay? Maybe u soudnuly descover that having more than one char is a bug that we do use to make advantage over a players that have only one.Oh i forgot u did promote having 2 acounts.But wait u did promote Skills continue training even if you are logged off or if your account is inactive.And u sudnuly say it is a bug So nobody is safe any more.Which part of game will become a bug tomorow and we will have to pay for it??????
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Letrange
Minmatar 17th Minmatar Tactical Wing
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 02:20:00 -
[614]
To all those who are canceling their accounts: canz I havez your stuffz???
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Scrapple
Di-Tron Heavy Industries Atlas Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 02:20:00 -
[615]
Edited by: Scrapple on 14/10/2008 02:20:40
Originally by: Carsidava Nope, sorry. This doesn't wash.
If you disable skill training for inactive accounts, why aren't you also disabling market orders from inactive accounts? Why aren't you also disabling RP accumulation from inactive accounts? Why aren't you disabling dividend payouts to inactive accounts?
Why are only skill points being hit?
Sorry CCP, this is an entirely unsatisfactory answer.
I hate to agree with a Goon, but this ^^ right here.
This is probably the thing that struck me most about eve when I first tried it. Truly sad ccp, truly sad.
Your excuse for making this change doesn't make sense, please try and come up with another.
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pAnTeRams
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 02:20:00 -
[616]
I suggest you loose more money doing that, hungreeds of people do not even more wan't to reactivate they expired accounts...aand not only one char farmers/sellers...
How this affect the game ballance if already work for five years?
I return and play for now just yet this option help me understand, that EVE & Dev's are trying to make the game better, that is game more shapefull than other mmo's, given users to feel comfortable &nd free like no other gamers playing mmo's...
For now i can't answer yourself "why i come back?"...perhaps it's time to rethink my decisions?
And why it's still annoying even i have already pay out for 3 acc's for few month?
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Trupplupagus
Settling Tank
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 02:21:00 -
[617]
Originally by: Yggdrassill Yeltsin Dear players,
This was, in fact, a bug. Over the course of the last 5 years we presented it as a feature because we wanted to give you some use of it and didn't want to mess with getting rid of it- we apologize for any confusion or inconvenience. In light of current difficult economic circumstances, we've decided to close that loophole. Unfortunately, that means that some of you will not be able to use the 'ghost training' feature that you've become accustomed to. This change was unavoidable, and in order to present you with a better gameplay experience we made the hard choice to go through with it. This change will be put into effect in 30 days time, and we will entertain ideas for changes to other skill training messages through the CSM mechanism- please speak with your CSM representatives and we will be sure to give time and thought to your suggestions. We apologize sincerely for this. If you have any questions or concerns, we would like very much to hear them.
Look dude this isn't even my job I just busted that out
You guys are dumb as toast
dear wrangler, your sweet words, straightforward presentation, and honest apologies have won me over. thank you for letting us know what is going on- I'm not happy, but at least I don't feel like you're making random shit up just to make me shut up.
have a nice night!
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W4yLoUd
KIA Corp KIA Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 02:21:00 -
[618]
Edited by: W4yLoUd on 14/10/2008 02:23:08
Originally by: Borg Zorg So CCp what will be the next BUG we will have to pay? Maybe u soudnuly descover that having more than one char is a bug that we do use to make advantage over a players that have only one.Oh i forgot u did promote having 2 acounts.But wait u did promote Skills continue training even if you are logged off or if your account is inactive.And u sudnuly say it is a bug So nobody is safe any more.Which part of game will become a bug tomorow and we will have to pay for it??????
Undocking message will be replaced by "Please enter your credit card number" maybe?
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Zenst
Gallente Omniscient Order Pandemic Legion
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 02:21:00 -
[619]
Originally by: Carsidava Nope, sorry. This doesn't wash.
If you disable skill training for inactive accounts, why aren't you also disabling market orders from inactive accounts? Why aren't you also disabling RP accumulation from inactive accounts? Why aren't you disabling dividend payouts to inactive accounts?
Why are only skill points being hit?
Sorry CCP, this is an entirely unsatisfactory answer.
Exactly, with regards to balance these points are more salient than the skill training argument.
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Aeronith
Ars ex Discordia GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 02:21:00 -
[620]
Originally by: CCP Mitnal
Finally, please don't promote anything that could have consequences on the servers and remember to post with respect towards fellow players.
Well to be honest, you and your staff have already done this - whatever your ultimate reasons are for removing the ghost training, it's a change I ultimately don't care that much for, but it's not a deal breaker.
The fact that your staff decided that treating your player base like idiots and passing this off as some manner of unfair bug when up until yesterday it was an advertised feature of the game is what should have people irked, and rightfully so.
However, having seen a great number of posts in both threads of people supporting or raging against the changes without actually expressing ire at what should really have them up in arms, I'm not really sure I can hold it against you all.
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UrbanCapt
Gallente Havoc Violence and Chaos The Church.
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Posted - 2008.10.14 02:22:00 -
[621]
This crap ****es me off. Outright lies!
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D4RT N3RDiUS
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Posted - 2008.10.14 02:23:00 -
[622]
www.ena.is
someone send me this page lol !!! ...
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Thorrak McFluffypants
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Posted - 2008.10.14 02:24:00 -
[623]
Accounts cancelled.
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Trupplupagus
Settling Tank
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Posted - 2008.10.14 02:25:00 -
[624]
Originally by: D4RT N3RDiUS www.ena.is
someone send me this page lol !!! ...
what?
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fecked
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Posted - 2008.10.14 02:25:00 -
[625]
Originally by: CCP t0rfifrans
Now I'm not saying that if me personally would be at the other end of this Dev Blog I wouldn't be annoyed by CCP's actions. We are gamers. We game the system. We figure out how to maximize our returns. There's no surprise that people have done this for the simple fact that it wasn't banned per se and also for the fact that it was possible. But recently we have seen a surge in this behavior in a way that we were essentially supporting and maintaining a large number of customers that weren't paying us regular subscriptions. That's not fair towards CCP as a service provider and it's not fair towards other players that pay a subscription but don't make use of this bug.
Now a single customer that doesn't log into the servers may not weigh heavily on our database infrastructure, just as a single snowflake isn't that heavy, hardly a measurable quantity. But it's hard not to notice an avalanche if it hits you. And that's what was starting to happen in our database.
1. There was a way to progress a character in EVE without an active subscription 2. CCP noticed a surge in the trend and decided to fix the leak 3. Players now have to pay a subscription for characters to have them progress
So CCP are noticing that real life global financial issues and unpopular measures CCP has recently imposed have caused an "avalanche" of unsubscribers. Now theres a long list of improvements people would like to see ingame that would keep people subscribed - check your forums you will see them.
Attempting to force those account holders into staying active by suddenly contradicting your own player guide is not an incentive to stay subscribed. You are suddenly making out that people are exploiting bugs when they are following CCP's own published guide.
Originally by: Player Guide - Skills Skills continue training even if you are logged off or if your account is inactive (in the second scenario you can't change skill training, though).
Having read very many pages on the subject tonight its very noticeable that the vast majority of those doing this have multiple accounts. Now its great that there are those say "I pay so should you!" but get realistic your 1 accounts fine but those with multiple accounts are CCP's bread and butter. They are mostly long term players who will have played for several years and already have paid CCP alot more $ for the privilege than the single account holder has.
Now what really is short sighted is that ghost training only has a benefit if the account is reactivated giving CCP further revenue. CCP have already gotten a fee for account creation, for game time playing the character and received further fee's for account reactivation and character transfer if its sold. This is a massive gamble that those training ghosts will pay to keep them active and training - it strikes me that those who want to do this already are.
The final insult is the contradiction and lies in CCP t0rfifrans blog.
Quote: we were essentially supporting and maintaining a large number of customers that weren't paying us regular subscriptions. That's not fair towards CCP as a service provider and it's not fair towards other players that pay a subscription but don't make use of this bug.
If its not fair why have you been actively promoting it as good practice to new players for the last 5 years?
Maybe in his next blog he could consider discussing how many other exploits the player guide promotes the use of and when they will be dealt with?
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The Ubernomicon
Eight year old girls GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.10.14 02:26:00 -
[626]
CCP,
Over the last two years you have consistently made changes to the game that make combat, specifically combat in 0.0, unentertaining and every other aspect of the game mundane.
I am unsubscribing my remaining accounts. A little birdie told me that you are thinking about randomizing moon mineral distribution every few months and T3 is going to be T2 with more overloading HP and slightly lower overloading bonuses. With the lack of innovation, TC changes and now the training change this game is no longer tolerable; This game has not been appealing for over a year. And to top off the whole mess you decided that lying to your players is acceptable.
CCP, fix problems in your game and give your staff some PR training before introducing changes that encourage disillusioned players to quit.
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Jikiya
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Posted - 2008.10.14 02:26:00 -
[627]
Funny. My account expires on Wednesday.
Well, it was fun while it lasted.
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Sergio Ling
Veto.
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Posted - 2008.10.14 02:27:00 -
[628]
I don't understand how disabling ghost training is a financially beneficial situation for CCP. People have certain accounts that only resub for a short amount of time to skill up, then leave a long skill training in the downtime. Removing ghost training means some will keep these characters subbed constantly, but what it'll mainly do is make people stop subbing entirely because they don't play the char. _
BET ISK ON ANYTHING AT ALL |
INF Wonderwoman
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Posted - 2008.10.14 02:28:00 -
[629]
I hate to say it, but did anyone at CCP every consider that this surge of "Ghost Training" accounts might just be people quitting eve.... I mean if I was to quit I would put a nice long skill on for the hell of it.
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D4RT N3RDiUS
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Posted - 2008.10.14 02:28:00 -
[630]
Edited by: D4RT N3RDiUS on 14/10/2008 02:29:00
Quote: ICELAND EUROPEAN CONSUMER CENTRE ICELAND EVR+PSKA NEYTENDAA-STO-IN ENA û ECC ICELAND Director: Iris Osp Ingjaldsdottir Si=um·li 13, postbox 8160 128 Reykjavik Tel: +354/ 545 1200 Fax: +354/ 545 1212 e-mail: [email protected] Web: www.ena.is
this and dont now wtf is this can read islandic..
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Wave Crusher
Gallente Chewin' The Fat
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Posted - 2008.10.14 02:28:00 -
[631]
Dam nice way to get people Mad as hell
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Psyrus Baine
Rionnag Alba Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2008.10.14 02:28:00 -
[632]
2 accounts lost. Shove this pathetic excuse. Sickens me to see the player base lied to
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Breaker77
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 02:29:00 -
[633]
You get what you pay for...
You pay nothing, you get nothing...
For those of you upset with this change, please check this out
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Leet Magician
Evolution Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.10.14 02:30:00 -
[634]
Quote: Now a single customer that doesn't log into the servers may not weigh heavily on our database infrastructure, just as a single snowflake isn't that heavy, hardly a measurable quantity. But it's hard not to notice an avalanche if it hits you. And that's what was starting to happen in our database.
didn't realize skill training was so heavy on the servers
guess we all have to stop our skills in order to have proper 400vs400 fleet battles
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sdthujfg
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Posted - 2008.10.14 02:32:00 -
[635]
Why the long face? Why all the emo. Relax
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PsychoBones II
R.E.C.O.N. The Firm.
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 02:32:00 -
[636]
Edited by: PsychoBones II on 14/10/2008 02:34:00
Originally by: Trupplupagus
Screw you,
CCP
Wow, you summed up CCP's customer support policy using only 3 words and a comma. Someone get this man a prize.
Edit: This could be the new automated response to all petitions and nobody would notice the difference.
Quit banning me. |
Ashanti Kayamura
Caldari Caldari Imperial Empire Navy
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Posted - 2008.10.14 02:33:00 -
[637]
i just have this to say:
CCP, so many people choose to ghosttrain not because they are evil character farming something for nothings, but because the Level 5 CLIFF of training time in return for very little char progress is simply TEDIOUS, DULL, BORING.
want to fly XYZ? heres 2 BORING SKILLS THAT OFFER NOTHING OF VALUE that you have to learn to get there.
great 60 days of nothing new and shiny before i even start to progress to the next level.
Im not saying we should all be able to fly caps, most people can stand a reasonable 1-2 week skill that lets you go on holiday, but for crying out loud having 1 year long skill plans for even stuff like well fitted HACS is a simple waste of a life. Not everyone can powergame 24/7 and having to fly a crap ship for 1 year to fly a slightly less crap ship is not quite as fun as some things your rivals offer us PAYING customers.
Thats NOT FUN CCP = THATS WHY NOBODY WANTS TO GIVE YOU MONEY TO DO IT!!!!
seriously. whoever is in charge of your product development needs to get a clue, you are not exactly winning the crowds with "here pay us 15 bucks a month and watch some numbers get bigger for 9 months until you can fly something slightly slower but more destructive"
I think everyone has their boredom limits, and the whole ghost training thing shows most l5 skills are completely in the field of "NOT ENTERTAINMENT ANY MORE!"
if i wanted to sit through 60 days of nothing. i would watch cricket.
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Necro EvilZombie
North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2008.10.14 02:33:00 -
[638]
Edited by: Necro EvilZombie on 14/10/2008 02:34:57 Edited by: Necro EvilZombie on 14/10/2008 02:33:25 CCP noticed a surge in the trend and decided to fix the leak
oh you mean you have more subscribers now? you money grubbers
get fu<ked Torfi Frans Olafsson you stupid <unt. Mortgage mentality...
--------------------------------------------------------------
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Ikaa LoveYums
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.10.14 02:34:00 -
[639]
I'm personally demanding a response from CCP, so someone grow a backbone and justify to us why you now say ghost training is a bug when it clearly states in the user guide that ghost training is a feature of the game.
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GypAtheNooB
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Posted - 2008.10.14 02:34:00 -
[640]
NOT MANY HAPPY CAMPERS HERE!!!
PERHAPS THE BEGINNING OF THE END FOR THIS GAME!!
MIGHT BE TIME FOR CCP TO PULL ITS HEAD OUT OF ITS A*S!!
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Ivisis Avisus
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Posted - 2008.10.14 02:36:00 -
[641]
Well: Subscription Status:Active Expires:14.2.2009 21:28:29
Recent Transactions 5.2.2008 16:12:54Credit Card131,4 USD
I was just Planing to make myself Power of 2 As my Skills are getting to be for more than a 30 days, but I also want to have fresh alt to work with with completely different structure that will be paid regularly and I'll reactivate my Main Account for time period of one minimal subscription when skill is done. So for me CCP will get 1 additional Subscription from me every 1-2 months and with power of 2 that would mean 3 full subs.
This is bad (really bad) Especially that I already have heard some false promises from CCP stuff in direct phone talk :(
In one of my posts I have written that EVE Fulfilled my long term dreams and this looks like start of something very very bad. I can state that "CCP just killed me in a Dream". This BLOG sealed any thoughts about Power of 2 and if this happen I need really to consider renewing subscription.
I'm Really sad. Count -1 (for PO2) and most likely you can count another -1 on 14'th of Feb. (How ironic, exactly on Valentines Day) |
FemmeFatal
Control Theory
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Posted - 2008.10.14 02:36:00 -
[642]
Originally by: Leet Magician
Quote: Now a single customer that doesn't log into the servers may not weigh heavily on our database infrastructure, just as a single snowflake isn't that heavy, hardly a measurable quantity. But it's hard not to notice an avalanche if it hits you. And that's what was starting to happen in our database.
didn't realize skill training was so heavy on the servers
guess we all have to stop our skills in order to have proper 400vs400 fleet battles
GBC secret fleet battle strategy
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Brigsby5987
Caldari 32nd Amarrian Imperial Navy Regiment.
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Posted - 2008.10.14 02:36:00 -
[643]
Originally by: SkwisgaarSkwigelf /facepalm
there goes one of my accounts, regardless of your "reasons"
Good dont forget to cancel your other ones. Less lag for me.
To all the rest in this thread whining...
You pay to play. It's not fair to train skills without paying. Period. Discussion over.
Feel free to cancel your accounts to make room for other people. _______________________________________ Sig? where. There's no sig here. |
Evilan Altana
State War Academy
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Posted - 2008.10.14 02:37:00 -
[644]
Edited by: Evilan Altana on 14/10/2008 02:40:30 The change itself is fine, the problems are:
1) Timing/Bait'n'Switch - Right after the 'Power of Two'. You get more people to sign up and ghost and then quick throw in a change that makes that money they just spent worthless because they can't afford or don't want to spend that much money.
2) Refering to it as a bug and an unintended feature when you have used it to advertise the game.
3) If you are changing this why not stop RP, and all the other ways players can make isk without having an account.
If you are going to change something don't try and pretend its something else. You decided that you would no longer allow players the benifts of playing the game without paying for it. Tell things to us straight and if you remove this, remove the ability to pull in isk the same way.
I didn't ghost train nor did I intend too, and I will keep all of my accounts even though this rapid deployment of such a drastic change puts serious doubt on the future of this game.
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Necro EvilZombie
North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2008.10.14 02:37:00 -
[645]
Edited by: Necro EvilZombie on 14/10/2008 02:37:53 Edited by: Necro EvilZombie on 14/10/2008 02:37:32 http://www.eve-online.com/guide/en/g615.asp <--- official Eve Online player guide
Skills continue training even if you are logged off or if your account is inactive (in the second scenario you can't change skill training, though).
Skills continue training even if you are logged off or if your account is inactive (in the second scenario you can't change skill training, though).
Skills continue training even if you are logged off or if your account is inactive (in the second scenario you can't change skill training, though).
Skills continue training even if you are logged off or if your account is inactive (in the second scenario you can't change skill training, though).
Skills continue training even if you are logged off or if your account is inactive (in the second scenario you can't change skill training, though).
Skills continue training even if you are logged off or if your account is inactive (in the second scenario you can't change skill training, though).
Skills continue training even if you are logged off or if your account is inactive (in the second scenario you can't change skill training, though). --------------------------------------------------------------
. |
Gaius Proeliator
Caldari Omega Propulsion
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Posted - 2008.10.14 02:39:00 -
[646]
This is really ridiculous. To take a self-proclaimed feature that has been around for years, and then suddenly tear it away under false pretenses, is very low. I sincerely hope CCP reconsiders this course of action. Ghost training was something that kept bringing me back to the game because I could take a break for a month, and when I got back, I'd have a shiny new skill finished training. I really don't want to be paying for 30+ days of training one skill, during which time I can't make any other skill advancements...that's just crazy. At least in other MMOs, if I want to advance more quickly, I have a choice. In EVE, you're basically stuck. So come on, don't do this to us CCP, because once you go down this road, there's no turning back.
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Tobias Sjodin
Ore Mongers Black Hand.
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Posted - 2008.10.14 02:40:00 -
[647]
Originally by: CCP Mitnal remember to post with respect towards fellow players.
Now if CCP only took their own advice.
Things have been really going downhill since T20. You used to be a loved company by your player base, and now you've really become like all the rest.
It's a pity, but I guess the distance from your community comes with all the feedback you get, and subsequently ignore.
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Katana Seiko
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.10.14 02:42:00 -
[648]
Well, that comes quite as a baseball bat out of the mist..
The few hours where iceland's future was on an extremely thin string must have hit you quite hard... Sure, I was kinda planning to allow my main character to finish the skill two days after the end of my subscription...
I know that some players, especially those who are so often accused to be macro miners (and mostly they are), abuse that offer, but in my opinion you should take more drastic actions against those people. I haven't heard about one single success on your end to shut down a part of that "ISK for money" business. What you notice, is a serious increase in the efforts these people to earn money by exploiting your system - and I really think you're just making the prices to rise by a fraction, but no difference.
At least, give some credit to the more honest people. Allow the skills to run for three days after the end of the subscription (as a symbol, as that was the time Jesus is claimed to be dead before he was resurrected) before you stop the training. Not all of us are able to continue playing seamlessly from one subscription to the next - and the bank crush might have made it worse. EVE is surely addicting, but you're gonna loose real players with this decision.
And please - if people accuse someone to be macro miners, it usually helps to try talking to these people... You need to do something about that plague they are. Heck, I know I was accused to be a macro miner myself, a person who wardeced me ages ago claimed he petitioned me, but I never heard anything of you!
I hope, everything works out for you... --- "Multiple exclamation marks are a sure sign for a diseased mind." -Terry Pratchett |
Padan Fain
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Posted - 2008.10.14 02:42:00 -
[649]
I could really care less, I was oblivious to the whole "ghost training" thing anyway. I guess I'm just a big dummy all around because I have been paying for my alts full time. Of course, they're specialized and I swap between them all for thier speciality... I couldn't justify having an account that I paid for 'sometimes' just to bump training in, but never used.... I'm confused by why someone would want to do that anyway. If you can't cover the 15 bucks for a month it takes to keep an account active, then where did you come up with the 20 bucks to activate the account in the first place.
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Cyrus Doul
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Posted - 2008.10.14 02:42:00 -
[650]
actually now that I remember it they are just deciding not to follow microsoft's "dont call it a bug, call it a feature" ideal. So props on breaking away from microsoft. but we actually want this feature.
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Trzzbk
Caldari GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.10.14 02:43:00 -
[651]
Originally by: The Ubernomicon A little birdie told me that you are thinking about randomizing moon mineral distribution every few months
No ****ing way, I would love to hear the rationale behind this.
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Andrua
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Posted - 2008.10.14 02:45:00 -
[652]
Torfi Frans Olafsson ! Senior Producer of EVE Online !
An epicness of this failure makes me to post in forums for the first time of many many years of playing.
A bug. A bug that is listed in player guide as a feature. A bug that was a selling point. I'm not concerned with absence of ghost training - this is really a minor issue, although a nice one.
I'm deeply concerned with the degree of ignorance and the sheer magnitude of a bull-crap that was fed to players. Not once, but twice, and the crappyness of the message managed to increase tenfold between those two announcements.
First was disbalance of the game. Serious disbalance. So serious, it was practically destroying it for 5 years with angry mobs of enraged players stalking along CCP office with torches and pitchforks, demanding fix to that misbalancing issue.
On page 49 of original thread that was somehow mysteriously become locked and on course of its 49+ pages didn't attract a single soul that was asking before for that feature (sorry, a bug) to be balanced, the imbalance turned itself into a bug.
A bug that was so malicious, that it actually edited player guide and announced itself one of the selling points. Truly, truly dangerous bug.
That bug caused another thing - it made me to ask the question of why. Why a rather intelligent player base that is in general older and smarter of any other MMORPG around is considered to be dumb enough to be fed complete horse-crap not once, but twice? Why, and how those ideas spring to life in the mind of senior producer of EVE-Online?
Gods themselves, they do not know.
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StealthGerbils
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Posted - 2008.10.14 02:46:00 -
[653]
Edited by: StealthGerbils on 14/10/2008 02:49:07 If you guys are 100% set on removing ghost training (please dont no one thinks you should and we would <3 U if you changed your mind) why not add it so that you can pay a small subscription fee to basically be able to just log in and train your skills.
Something like $2.99 or $4.99 a month where all you can do is train,change,and set skills. You can't undock, you cant buy or sell anything, cant interact with items, cant do anything but chat and train skills.
That way, people can still ghost train long skills (for $15 a month, you could still train 3 characters, pretty reasonable) but they still have to pay a small fee to CCP. It would allow players to keep plenty of alts that they may not use, because even if the alt is inactive from the game, you could still train up skills, although with a small fee.
It would also allow CCP to get what they deserve for running the game. I mean iceland is screwed, at least we should give CCP money so that they can take over the country, overthrow the government, institute laws, and capture all of the beautiful Icelandic women to keep in the eve headquarters harem.
However if you guys are dead set in doing thing change (like I said, please don't everyone will hate you for it), please institute something like this. You really have nothing to lose.
Also bring back 30 day timecards if you are removing ghost training.
That said, I already did minmatar frig/cruiser/BS V, battlecruisers V, all projectile weapons V, ASC V, drone interfacing V through ghost training on my main char and the whole mining barge V, exhumers V, caldari cruiser/frig V on this one. The NUMBER ONE reason I resubscribed was because I finished a long boring skill that I sat on my implant clone training (AKA doing nothing) . Without them, I dunno if I would have...
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Venomire
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.10.14 02:46:00 -
[654]
Originally by: CCP Mitnal Finally, please don't promote anything that could have consequences on the servers and remember to post with respect towards fellow players.
This neatly excludes CCP employees because I seriously doubt any of you actually play this game.
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Cosy Ceaon
Gallente Aliastra
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Posted - 2008.10.14 02:46:00 -
[655]
dear Torfi Frans Olafsson stay whit ambulation and whit your blog
is a bug is a bug a buuuuuuuuuuuuug |
Cyrus Doul
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Posted - 2008.10.14 02:47:00 -
[656]
Originally by: Trzzbk
Originally by: The Ubernomicon A little birdie told me that you are thinking about randomizing moon mineral distribution every few months
No ****ing way, I would love to hear the rationale behind this.
rationale: to mess with pos people everywhere when they find out that the moon miner that has been running for 2 weeks getting silicate is now getting cobalt or some other godly expensive ore, but the silo tells them "**** off, I'm silicates!" and dumps billions of isk into space around the game.
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XDSKIRBYKIA
Caldari OR WHAT' Incorporated
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Posted - 2008.10.14 02:47:00 -
[657]
Edited by: XDSKIRBYKIA on 14/10/2008 02:47:27
As far as i am concerned CCP have a shot gun pointed at thier foot and better think long and hard about pulling the trigger on wends night.
I have not used the feature as i am only quite new to the game but i was intending on using it to train stupidly long skills like BS 5. I was even intening on starting a second account when i was ready to do so.
(yes i use the word feature as that is how it is descriped in the player guides "OFFICAL" player guides mind you.)
CCP.... Stop, Think and most importantly LISTEN, to what people are saying.
P.s they may be your reasons in the DEV blog but think about it and your previous statments you are making yourselfs out to be liers and fools.. Congrats!
.....//////mmmmmm alts\\\\\\\....... |
Khwalik
Ghetto Kings
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Posted - 2008.10.14 02:47:00 -
[658]
Edited by: Khwalik on 14/10/2008 02:48:40 I look at it this way, this is yet another attempt by CCP to try to money grab in what I figure has been a rather rough few months.....Reintoduction of 'Power of Two' shoulda been a sign for many of us myself included but the idea of paying to move all my toons around for a bit of a discount didn't appeal to me at the time.....had I known the inflation that the new 60 day GTC's would have come to....I'd dpne it....but hindsight is well whatever.
What I am honestly concerned about is where does this all end? Been alot already that has occured in our game and I stress this fact EvE is 'ours' it's not CCP's outright, and I'll don the tinfoil and get ragged but this is a blatant attempt to manipulate the player base in my opinion. Started with the GTC thing and is now carrying over...the 'ghost training' thing honestly woulda made more sense to implicate first but whatever....
Ask yourselves, what is next....loss of assets after 90days or perhaps god forbid character deleation?
I find this quite amusing that all of this starts as we prepare to ellect yet another 'lame duck' and tactically inept CSM.....undoubtedly the biggest waste in the history of EvE to this point imo.
Just what exactly did CCP pay to have the meet and greet in Iceland of the CSM....just what has the CSM accomplished for us the player base anyway? I've not seen a whole lot.
My basic point with this rant is we the player base actually control the game...not as directly as we may like but we determine CCP's future not Dev's and GM's.....
EvE has always prided itself and 'sold' itself on thinking and working outside the box of other MMO's and is now really becoming no different than anything else.
just my .2 isk worth
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Jinx Barker
GFB Scientific
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Posted - 2008.10.14 02:47:00 -
[659]
Originally by: Venomire
Originally by: CCP Mitnal Finally, please don't promote anything that could have consequences on the servers and remember to post with respect towards fellow players.
This neatly excludes CCP employees because I seriously doubt any of you actually play this game.
Or give a hoot about us. <<Click The Siggy For the Blog>>
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b3g3m0t
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 02:48:00 -
[660]
i love eve ) 4 year's paly time ending.
k i understand whan difrent peoples pay for eve difrent prices like who live in europe or usa ))
now if you want just take a pause rest a bit you suck ) now eve became game for grinders like other games
Ty CCP
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HermanGelmet
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Posted - 2008.10.14 02:48:00 -
[661]
It baffles me that this was a more pressing issue than getting rid of macroers, ISK sellers etc. Maybe it's because they are incapable of one, and more than willing to do the other without a moment's hesitation.
GJ, you are teh win.
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Retromash
Minmatar Re-Awakened Technologies Inc Electus Matari
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Posted - 2008.10.14 02:48:00 -
[662]
So, ah.... How many of you are going to the fanfest, and taking baseball bats or other types of blunt/sharp objects with you?
PMS - It's not just for THAT time of the month Menopause - It doesn't mean THAT time of the month goes away
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Khalid Seyadin
Amarr Ejrekorp Virtue of Selfishness
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Posted - 2008.10.14 02:49:00 -
[663]
I hear they're saying Goon Fleet is a bug...maybe they'll fix them too ;-)
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Dianeces
The Illuminati. Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2008.10.14 02:49:00 -
[664]
Terrible change, much like Inanna Zunis posting.
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Leet Magician
Evolution Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.10.14 02:49:00 -
[665]
Originally by: FemmeFatal
Originally by: Leet Magician
Quote: Now a single customer that doesn't log into the servers may not weigh heavily on our database infrastructure, just as a single snowflake isn't that heavy, hardly a measurable quantity. But it's hard not to notice an avalanche if it hits you. And that's what was starting to happen in our database.
didn't realize skill training was so heavy on the servers
guess we all have to stop our skills in order to have proper 400vs400 fleet battles
GBC secret fleet battle strategy
that's why we load first on node crashes
honestly CCP.. there are other bugs that need fixing, not this one
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Tobias Sjodin
Ore Mongers Black Hand.
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Posted - 2008.10.14 02:49:00 -
[666]
This sort of reminds me of the old piracy-argument.
Developer: Hmm, we've made a staggeringly awesome first-person shooter, why doesn't it sell? It must be piracy that is to blame.
Reality: They've made yet another clone of clones, have nothing new to contribute, and hope to gain lots of money from shoveling shit to their customers, but the result is a lack of sales.
---
CCP version: We provide an awesome game, talk to our community, and people are unsubscribing to our wonderful game? It must be exploitative players and bugs that is to blame.
Reality: Weak world economy, and a player base that is fed up with being treated like they don't exist lead to an increase in people canceling their subscriptions resulting in a lack of sales.
Cause and Effect, dear CCP. Cause and Effect.
|
The Ubernomicon
Eight year old girls GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 02:49:00 -
[667]
The biggest factor with this change is that this game is not very content rich. This change now forces paying for 30d+ days of the same content/ships when training BS V, BC V or any other high ranking skill. No other game is like that, not even Korean MMOs. And then add how stagnant CCP has made 0.0. This change is going to remove the last thing that made coming back after a break worth it.
It looks like it time to start shopping for a new game.
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Katana Seiko
Gallente
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 02:50:00 -
[668]
Originally by: Cosy Ceaon dear Torfi Frans Olafsson stay whit ambulation and whit your blog
Care to translate? --- "Multiple exclamation marks are a sure sign for a diseased mind." -Terry Pratchett |
Trzzbk
Caldari GoonFleet GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 02:50:00 -
[669]
Originally by: Cyrus Doul
Originally by: Trzzbk
Originally by: The Ubernomicon A little birdie told me that you are thinking about randomizing moon mineral distribution every few months
No ****ing way, I would love to hear the rationale behind this.
rationale: to mess with pos people everywhere when they find out that the moon miner that has been running for 2 weeks getting silicate is now getting cobalt or some other godly expensive ore, but the silo tells them "**** off, I'm silicates!" and dumps billions of isk into space around the game.
I mean, it makes sense. It's not like you'd need to spend dozens of hours taking down and re-setting up your mining chains every time the materials changed. It's not as if it takes well over 2 hours to take down a single POS, not to mention putting it back up.
Oh wait.
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Weirda
Minmatar Queens of the Stone Age
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 02:51:00 -
[670]
Originally by: Milena Rage What an idiotic move, you'll be losing 5 accounts out of my collection, my 86m sp char does everything that my alts can do - why bother having additional accounts that I hardly even use?
sound like they Milena favour! __ weirda |
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TheJackalMiner
Amarr 0utbreak
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 02:51:00 -
[671]
Well this is how it goes (for me):
CCP: Money, money, money.... must be funny ..... it's a cruel world ...... we wish you a speedy recovery!!!!
EVE PLAYERS: to many opinions and don't have enough room to sum them all up!
My opinion ( not that it will matter for CCP) : OMG i need to make another SPEEDY RECOVERY of my WALLET if i want to play eve! Succes it's not final, Failure it's not fatal, it's the Courage to Continue that Counts! |
Cyrus Doul
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 02:52:00 -
[672]
Originally by: Khalid Seyadin I hear they're saying Goon Fleet is a bug...maybe they'll fix them too ;-)
Nah. I like goonfleet. Sure everyone in the game hates them. I just like them when im reading the news articles at the logon screen. Anytime they pop up your basically bound to laugh at something rediculously crazy that Jihadfleet did.
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XDSKIRBYKIA
Caldari OR WHAT' Incorporated
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 02:52:00 -
[673]
Hope CCP arnt just looking at this as another forum whinge becuase we are looking at the end of EVE here if this goes through without other changes like reducing long skills training times.!! .....//////mmmmmm alts\\\\\\\....... |
Tizoca
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 02:52:00 -
[674]
I find it bizarre that anyone is accusing CCP of "promoting" ghost training as a "feature", when the resources they drag out to back up their claim are:
1) One tiny quote buried in the Player Guide, which most people never read, that never claimed this was an intended feature, just that it worked. In fact, there was a rules change a while back that was posted in the PG and in the News section, and everyone on the forums blasted CCP in part because "no one reads the Player Guide" (or the News, for that matter). Double standard, no? Besides...the Guide did reflect how the game worked at the time, intentionally or not. So what? There are also disclaimers that game experience may change during play. They had something that was a minor bug that players liked, so they left it alone until it started hitting the bottom line and raising ire from some players. No lies involved.
2) A dev quote talking about something that worked in the game at the time. The quote also did not claim that ghost training was an intended feature, nor was said quote widely used for promotion, nor did the dev promise it would be in the game forever more.
Hmm...seems like the most under-promoted feature in history. I guess I'm in the minority, but I NEVER choose to play a game because of a minor feature that isn't core to the game; minor things change all the time.
I guess I'm still at a loss to see what possible reason people could have for having 5 or 8 accounts all alternating through ghosting at once, anyway. Or are there some sour grapes in some quarters because CCP took away an easy way to finish training characters for sale?
|
Matting
NQX Innovations
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Posted - 2008.10.14 02:52:00 -
[675]
Well 1 account canceled now for me.
I didn't really use this feature/bug very often personally but I knew others who did and it enticed them to come back to play with something new they got while not playing.
Some people get burnt out and quit to play other games but having a long skill finish seems to get them to come back for a few months. I think in these cases they will just stay with their others games.
I really am worried that CCP has lost their vision for EVE and with the player base. Also can a dev explain how inactive accounts training put so much stress on the servers?
Most people canceling accounts are probably canceling alt accounts not their mains so there is no stuff to get.
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Necro EvilZombie
North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 02:52:00 -
[676]
Edited by: Necro EvilZombie on 14/10/2008 02:55:00 Edited by: Necro EvilZombie on 14/10/2008 02:53:13
And I have canceled my alts account too. --------------------------------------------------------------
. |
Trzzbk
Caldari GoonFleet GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 02:53:00 -
[677]
Edited by: Trzzbk on 14/10/2008 02:54:04
Originally by: TheJackalMiner Well this is how it goes (for me):
CCP: Money, money, money.... must be funny ..... it's a cruel world ...... we wish you a speedy recovery!!!!
EVE PLAYERS: to many opinions and don't have enough room to sum them all up!
My opinion ( not that it will matter for CCP) : OMG i need to make another SPEEDY RECOVERY of my WALLET if i want to play eve!
Cany somebody translate this into a coherent post?
|
Khwalik
Ghetto Kings
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 02:54:00 -
[678]
I'll make a suggestion....Reintroduce 'Power of two' and allow existing accounts to use it rather than try and railroad us to swap toons about and make more money CCP.
And allow inactive accounts after say one year old the ability to post on the forums to aquire a GTC with isk assets.
That'd answer alot of my problems for the time being.
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CherryPoppin
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 02:55:00 -
[679]
Ok let's be perfectly honest here.. When CCP says 'hard work users put into their characters' they mean 'money'.
We all know what's happened to Iceland's economy, right? Completely and utterly destroyed! That's why they're making this money grab. It's not going to get you squat.
What's _absolutely hilarious_ about all of this is CCP has shown us why the rest of Iceland can't run their businesses for jack diddly.
Guess you should have refunded all those ship losses due to lag from your servers. Hopefully your bank wont give back your house either... esp if you share the same customer service.
Enjoy
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Trzzbk
Caldari GoonFleet GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 02:55:00 -
[680]
Originally by: Tizoca They had something that was a minor bug that players liked, so they left it alone until it started hitting the bottom line and raising ire from some players.
Raised ire from who?
|
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Fader Bane
Black Knight Buccaneers Daisho Syndicate
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 02:55:00 -
[681]
Originally by: Necro EvilZombie Edited by: Necro EvilZombie on 14/10/2008 02:53:13
obviously unintended. must have been a typo.
so you're going to reissue lower level gtcs then right? I mean that's only fair. ________________________________________
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ViolenTUK
Gallente Vindicated Exiles
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 02:56:00 -
[682]
A Very Very stupid move by CCP. This wont help Eve online at all.
www.eve-players.com |
Khalid Seyadin
Amarr Ejrekorp Virtue of Selfishness
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 02:56:00 -
[683]
It's gonna be easier on Call of Duty when all the deleted players start playing normal games shouting "Where's the Tank!" while I blast you in the face with my AK-47!
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The Ubernomicon
Eight year old girls GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 02:56:00 -
[684]
Originally by: CherryPoppin We all know what's happened to Iceland's economy, right? Completely and utterly destroyed! That's why they're making this money grab. It's not going to get you squat.
This would make sense if we all payed in whatever worthless currency Iceland uses, but we don't.
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Debu San
Merch Industrial GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 02:57:00 -
[685]
This is BS, I have several characters myself and though i keep them subscribed merely for the ease of being able to do what I want whenever I wish those that are having financial issues during these hard times will be especially hard hit by this. I don't understand really why you should need to pay to train long skills anyways considering actually playing and online have nothing to do with how fast you acquire SP. This coupled with inflated GTC prices (remember 90's used to go for less than 400 mil) are making this game start to suck badly for the average Joe. Also watch what the left hand is doing this situation was probably to redirect attention from the hated speed nerf that may be occurring at the same time.
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Dacro Insigna
Caldari Insurrection Inc Tygris Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 02:58:00 -
[686]
Drop us a skill queue and I'm cool with it.
- Dax
"AND it proves you to be very wrong in that statement" - Strife Phoenix, Intelligence Incarnate |
Ba'Zap Da'Rezd
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 02:58:00 -
[687]
Five accounts here that will be going permanently inactive once the time cards on them expire in a couple weeks.
|
Khwalik
Ghetto Kings
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 02:58:00 -
[688]
Honestly I percieve this to be the 'end of days' for EvE.
And don't try and say they are diversified in other Euro markets or the states.
Another thing I strongly encourage.....Boycott Fanfest! if it even happens.
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Baroness D
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 02:59:00 -
[689]
I had recently cancelled an alt account because of what I considered extremely poor treatment by CCP's customer service. I received an email just last week about a month after the cancellation asking me to fill out a survey explaining why I had canceled my account. The email contained no link to the survey only to the survey company and I couldn't find a survey to fill out.
Perfect example of what CCP thinks of there customers. Nothing.
|
Highwind Cid
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 03:00:00 -
[690]
GO FIGURE. I am less than a month from my 6 month sub ending (not resubbing) and I was ready to do up BS V... Would have been nice to get that bad boy out of the way for Christmas. Looks like CCP won't be getting my little X-mas bonus of another 6~12 month sub. No, not because of the death of ghost training solely, but its a nice little addition to the list. Easy come, easy go.
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Halycon Gamma
Caldari The Flying Tigers United Front Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 03:01:00 -
[691]
Originally by: Kerpow Judging by how many have replied, does this mean that it affects a large number of players?
If as CCP say it's now an avalanche, does that mean we're talking about 10-20% of eve players doing this?
90 day market orders, are these going to be suspended if the player is not active? What about their contracts, their research, their manufacturing jobs etc?
I see a can of worms, lets open it.
If it aint broke, don't fix it.
Some of us don't care about the skill training thing. We are just angry that, yet again, CCP has been caught in a bold faced lie. To me that is the issue, more than anything else.
CCP keeps saying: "Honest, we're going to tell you the truth from now on, and do our best to reform our ways since the last big scandal we were caught in!".
And then they do something like this. Soon its going to be that anything CCP says; I'm just going to assume its a lie on the get go. And based on past experience.. I'd be right.
|
Shidousha
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 03:01:00 -
[692]
I wonder what happens to CCP if we all pull out our subscriptions for just one month. We are the players, and we are the ones deciding what course this company should take. One month won't make CCP go bankrupt, but it will show CCP who the real power behind the game is. All it needs is you to tell the people in your corporations and your alliances that they should stop their subscriptions for 30 days, three months after this change hits Tranquility. The people in eastern germany managed to bring a few million people together within a few days - so how bad are we if we can't get 150k people over three months? These millions said "We are the people." - we are the players, CCP shouldn't do something like that and get away with it so easily!
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Dr Asimov
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 03:01:00 -
[693]
Edited by: Dr Asimov on 14/10/2008 03:03:21 http://www.eve-online.com/guide/en/g615.asp
"Skills continue training even if you are logged off or if your account is inactive (in the second scenario you can't change skill training, though)."
Direct quote from your players guide. I have my screen shots of this guide quote as well as many other players assuring its authenticity.
As I said before there are a total of 12 accounts in my household only 4 of them "Ghost Training"
You are also violating your own EULA as well in a few other aspects and here is one of the 12 I found:
When a new player signs up for an account he/she is being cheated according to the EULA currently the "Trial" period is designated as 14 days on your website in big letters FREE 14-DAY TRIAL. Your CURRENT EULA says and I quote ". Establishing a New Account Upon establishing a new Account, you will be entitled to play EVE for up to thirty (30) days without paying the subscription fee (the "Trial Period")." http://www.eve-online.com/pnp/eula.asp
This is but a minor one and I am sure it will be changed as the EULA states "these are our rules and we can pencil in a new one or remove one when we chose"
This is the ONLY MMORPG that my FAMILY and we have played in 4 years with such dedication.
Earlier today I counted 30 pages of posts in 2 hours time, this kind of response would seriously make me reconsider what ever the subject was.
Some of us serve our country and must be gone for long periods of time, some of us aspire in school to become better programmers and artists than you are. Some of us even run businesses that have effects on your revenue. (such as posting your banner and being an affiliate) And many other things that keep us from consistently playing every day.
While some might have complained you should have upped the subs a dollar or 2 to cover this problem and been truthful about it and the response wouldn't have been so detrimental to your company.
To risk the truth and gain everyones respect must be something you have never heard of or care about. And it shows from CCP employees playing their own characters in game which is still going on to giving other players in game items that no one else will get. Making T2 blueprints unavailable anymore since all the corps you used to belong to have them all already . The wallets of those you have corrupted from the beginning have grown so fat that time codes are a click away of their isk and their corps grow fat like pigs on the silage you have given them.
And to all of you who are enjoying the change about to be implemented remember this not all of us use Ghost training to obtain super caps and huge sp accounts without paying the full amount. some of us have jobs and RL situations that keep us from playing 24/7 like some of the people here and looking forward to something new when you log on again is always a plus in my book. Also remember when the majority rules and it will show in the next month or so you will see how bad this game will become when the markets die and the amount of people dissappear and the cost of CCP running it outweighs those playing they will use this line from the EULA on you... "A. By CCP for Termination of the Game CCP does not guarantee that it will continue to offer access to the System or support the Game. CCP may, in its sole discretion, cease to provide any or all of the services offered in connection with EVE (including access to the System and any or all features or components of the Game), terminate the EULA, close all Accounts and cancel all of the rights granted to you under the EULA. CCP may communicate such termination to you upon 30 days notice in any of the following manners: (i) when you log into your Account; (ii) in a notice on CCP's website; (iii) via electronic mail; or (iv) in another manner that CCP deems suitable to inform you of the termination. If CCP terminates the EULA pursuant to this section, you will not receive a refund of prepaid subscription fees."
CCP you have become over indulgent, corrupt, liars, and capitalists pigs and I hope the next time one of you passes out drunk it's in front of a (insert your favorite 2 Metric Ton + object moving 150 KPH here).
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Ayanthe
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 03:02:00 -
[694]
Quote: "essentially supporting and maintaining a large number of customers that weren't paying us regular subscriptions"
CCP: Hard up for cash? Iceland's banks have been having a hell of a time recently.
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Mitsuko Souma
Gallente The United Federation of Spice
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 03:02:00 -
[695]
Originally by: Dacro Insigna Drop us a skill queue and I'm cool with it.
Mentioned this in the other thread...
Along with a free account transfer weekend pls, so people can reduce the number of accounts they have from lots to few. Show of good faith an all that :).
Was only really keeping the others going to max max out.
But hay everyone lets not forget ambula...meh.
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Tizoca
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 03:03:00 -
[696]
Originally by: Trzzbk
Originally by: Tizoca They had something that was a minor bug that players liked, so they left it alone until it started hitting the bottom line and raising ire from some players.
Raised ire from who?
1) A few honest souls that watched some people get freebies while they paid they way they were supposed to.
2) Younger accounts that had no skills worth ghosting, who had to maintain an account while older characters could be trained without paying.
Before you say it, I can't recall seeing any real gripes in the forums, but I did in the newbie corp chat quite a few times. However, even if you choose to cynically discount that half of the argument, the other remains. CCP left ghost in to maybe give the players an occasional hand, and people have started systematically taking advantage of their generosity. It got overused to the point of abuse, now it goes away. Can't understand why this comes as a surprise to anyone.
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Greenbolt
Minmatar Minmatar Ship Construction Services Ushra'Khan
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 03:04:00 -
[697]
Originally by: Tizoca I find it bizarre that anyone is accusing CCP of "promoting" ghost training as a "feature", when the resources they drag out to back up their claim are:
1) One tiny quote buried in the Player Guide, which most people never read, that never claimed this was an intended feature, just that it worked. In fact, there was a rules change a while back that was posted in the PG and in the News section, and everyone on the forums blasted CCP in part because "no one reads the Player Guide" (or the News, for that matter). Double standard, no? Besides...the Guide did reflect how the game worked at the time, intentionally or not. So what? There are also disclaimers that game experience may change during play. They had something that was a minor bug that players liked, so they left it alone until it started hitting the bottom line and raising ire from some players. No lies involved.
2) A dev quote talking about something that worked in the game at the time. The quote also did not claim that ghost training was an intended feature, nor was said quote widely used for promotion, nor did the dev promise it would be in the game forever more.
Hmm...seems like the most under-promoted feature in history. I guess I'm in the minority, but I NEVER choose to play a game because of a minor feature that isn't core to the game; minor things change all the time.
I guess I'm still at a loss to see what possible reason people could have for having 5 or 8 accounts all alternating through ghosting at once, anyway. Or are there some sour grapes in some quarters because CCP took away an easy way to finish training characters for sale?
------------------------------------------- When i cant afford GTCs for my manufacturing alt i ghost train it until I can afford em again. Now I will let it go idle..wait a bit until everyone else sells off their alts then gtc start it up just long enough to sell it too.
I can accept the change CCP got greedy. It happens. The short notice though is down right rude. Combined with a few other short notice changes that have occured..is a reason I dont recommend this game any longer to ohters..and wait to see how Jump Gate ...or Star Treck will work out as possible replacements.
Stupid move being such short notice.
--------------------------------------------------- Scordite -Who was it that said that flying minmatar is kinda like going down a flight of stairs on an office chair while firing an uzi? |
Khwalik
Ghetto Kings
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 03:05:00 -
[698]
Originally by: Shidousha I wonder what happens to CCP if we all pull out our subscriptions for just one month. We are the players, and we are the ones deciding what course this company should take. One month won't make CCP go bankrupt, but it will show CCP who the real power behind the game is. All it needs is you to tell the people in your corporations and your alliances that they should stop their subscriptions for 30 days, three months after this change hits Tranquility. The people in eastern germany managed to bring a few million people together within a few days - so how bad are we if we can't get 150k people over three months? These millions said "We are the people." - we are the players, CCP shouldn't do something like that and get away with it so easily!
that's the kinda thing I'm talking about...I'm not gonna re-up anymore GTc's personally.
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Ramirez Dora
The Dead Parrot Shoppe Inc.
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 03:05:00 -
[699]
This smells of corporate pressure from the business end tbh. This will cost you money not save it. Many, many people keep multiple accounts which they resub every now and then, on top of their main. Allowing ghost training gives them an incentive to keep resubbing those accounts, which you've now taken away. If this was intended as a move to push players into a 'one account each' scenario then you'll probably be a lot closer to it, at a cost. And that will be all of the periodical resubs.
Also, there was no point in power of 2 just before doing this, as again, ghost training is the only incentive to keep this going. The amount of skills which take longer to train than the minimum resub time is not that big. With power of 2 characters it would be non-existant.
If you are doing this for the sole purpose of the 'unfair' factor then many arguments here are true. All benefits should cease to tick. To be honest, taking in mind the fact above that a minute number of skills take as long or longer as the minimum subscription interval, the 'unfair' argument is silly.
There are far more unfair things in Eve than someone training Titan V on an inactive account. Everyone will benefit far more from a reversal on this decision, and you might want to ask business to actually consult the players for ideas before you pull this again. After all, we aren't stupid :)
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IR Scoutar
Caldari State War Academy
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 03:06:00 -
[700]
Originally by: Baroness D I had recently cancelled an alt account because of what I considered extremely poor treatment by CCP's customer service. I received an email just last week about a month after the cancellation asking me to fill out a survey explaining why I had canceled my account. The email contained no link to the survey only to the survey company and I couldn't find a survey to fill out.
Perfect example of what CCP thinks of there customers. Nothing.
i think you just got information mail that you will recive a survey mail sometime in the future (about a week after that info mail)
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Zinnn
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 03:07:00 -
[701]
Edited by: Zinnn on 14/10/2008 03:14:21 All I can say, I've said it before.
Add features to make subscriptions more appealing - like the long-awaited queuing of skills.
Another thing that I am asserting is that I think CCP may very well be using regular accounts to try to lead this conversation in a way that suits them better. Seriously I am surprised with the amount (however tiny) of people that are backing CCP up on this.
For example with the speed nerf - they never suggested slowing down missiles proportionately. The main point of the speed nerf was to stop breaking the game mechanics. In reality it was a way to get more ships killed and get people grinding missions more so more income could be gained. Even that was more honorable than this. Sure they lied yet again, but in the previous situation you could avoid troubles by blobbing - the only way this can be fixed is by brute force (cancelling subscriptions.. and by then it's too late).
Truth be told, if ccp doesn't stop messing with the game in ways where nobody CARES, and refuses to give more features (where's orca? Where's this eve wiki? Forget ambulation, where's the basics??) they will have a serious problem on their hands, and truth be told, if not a lot of people are going to play, I may as well quit also. This is a social game and I know several people that play only during their time off from school/military. This really is the ideal game for them.
CCP will find out soon enough that this tactic will be the worst move they've EVER made. Maybe by then it will be too late. Only time will tell, I just hope CCP has the ******* to follow through on this, so they can see the result of very bad decisions. It's true, people will just consolidate their alts - at least then they'll recieve some function out of them, and ccp is out of krona. I don't care - let CCP fall down. They want to commit suicide, I say we let them.
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Highwind Cid
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 03:07:00 -
[702]
Edited by: Highwind Cid on 14/10/2008 03:08:35
Originally by: Mitsuko Souma
Originally by: Dacro Insigna Drop us a skill queue and I'm cool with it.
Mentioned this in the other thread...
Along with a free account transfer weekend pls, so people can reduce the number of accounts they have from lots to few. Show of good faith an all that :).
Was only really keeping the others going to max max out.
But hay everyone lets not forget ambula...meh.
EDIT: Add a skill queue to increase the time from 'the end'
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SkwisgaarSkwigelf
C.R.M Productions
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 03:09:00 -
[703]
a large part of the appeal of running multiple accounts was ghosttraining. I could concentrate on one character, save a little bit of money on another, and it encouraged me to come back because a skill was done and I could play with new toys or start training something new. That appeal is gone now, and the underhanded manner in which CCP brought this change doesn't help my opinion of them either.
Bottom line is at least one of my accounts is going inactive, if not 2. This doesn't help you out at all ccp, not one bit.
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DeAnnais
Ghetto Kings
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 03:10:00 -
[704]
I gather the CCP paid economist came up with this brilliant idea as well, along with killing the GTC choice.
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Khwalik
Ghetto Kings
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 03:12:00 -
[705]
I honestly call for a sensible boycott of funding any alt accounts if it works for you. I'm dropping mine next month.
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UnDeRBaLaNcE
The Dead Parrot Shoppe Inc.
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 03:14:00 -
[706]
So all these people making threats, of canceling accounts... How are you going to cancel them if you do not already pay for them except a few times a year?
I think people are over reacting. Most of you are making empty threats. I donÆt know many people except character sellers who let accounts go inactive to train tat long skill. Most use the characters and keep it activated.
/me Check Proximity Suit, Puts It On
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Alex Salas
BROTHERHOOD OF SPARTA Pupule 'Ohana
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 03:15:00 -
[707]
This change must be second only to t20
You cowards CCP, defend yourselves.
If their is a way to show a verifiable way (that does not disclose sensitive financial details) I am canceling account, please let me know so I can have proof at least this peon CCP, won't take it! EVE lies...rotating FTL!!!
http://myeve.eve-online.com/updates/patchnotes.asp?patchlogID=99On the Serenity server, skills no longer train when the owning account is deactivated. Tranquility |
KeratinBoy
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 03:16:00 -
[708]
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=896194
Thread about stopping anything for unsubbed accounts. Read the OP of it and make up your own mind.
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SZ Rota
Caldari Eve University Ivy League
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 03:17:00 -
[709]
Edited by: SZ Rota on 14/10/2008 03:21:24
To quote the third post under the Devblog version: ôPure, disingenuous bullcrap. If this was a bug you intended to fix, there's no earthly reason you waited this long. Shove it, you filthy liars.ö
Me: Omg, the devblog version has just as laughable a stated reason for the change as the other sticky.
ôNow a single customer that doesn't log into the servers may not weigh heavily on our database infrastructure, just as a single snowflake isn't that heavy, hardly a measurable quantity. But it's hard not to notice an avalanche if it hits you. And that's what was starting to happen in our database.ö
ItÆs a downright lie. Plain and simple. The company, just like in the other official post on the subject, is just outright lieing straight to our faces.
IÆm not saying CCP is especially, extraordinarily evil for doing so, because lieing to customers in business, or lieing to voters in politics is pretty normal, but, normal or not, frequent or not, itÆs still evil.
Subscribed, active, characters put the CCP infrastructure through a gazillion calculations.
Unsubscribed, inactive, characters do not.
Active and inactive character stress on the system arenÆt even remotely comparable without using exponents in the math.
If a bucket of sand is the load imposed by someone who actively subscribes and plays, and CCP can boast supporting 250,000? Buckets of sand? I donÆt care what the exact number is. Make it 100,000. Make it 75,000 active players, make it whatever you like. ThatÆs a LOT of sand.
Now take an inactive account. ThatÆs like a little grain of sand. Take thousands of those grains of sand, you probably filled only one inch of one bucket.
Torfi tried to play a numbers game, and those numbers do NOT add up.
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Katana Seiko
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.10.14 03:17:00 -
[710]
Well, you might have an unexpected sideeffect of the Power of Two here... Don't you think? Deal with it (for example by never advertising that offer again), but deal with it the right way. Don't turn that down on the players! --- "Multiple exclamation marks are a sure sign for a diseased mind." -Terry Pratchett |
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Trzzbk
Caldari GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.10.14 03:19:00 -
[711]
Related question: in the interests of keeping DB stress down, when will you start actually deleting old accounts?
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Greenbolt
Minmatar Minmatar Ship Construction Services Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2008.10.14 03:20:00 -
[712]
Originally by: UnDeRBaLaNcE So all these people making threats, of canceling accounts... How are you going to cancel them if you do not already pay for them except a few times a year?
I think people are over reacting. Most of you are making empty threats. I donÆt know many people except character sellers who let accounts go inactive to train tat long skill. Most use the characters and keep it activated.
/me Check Proximity Suit, Puts It On
actually. your right in the fact that character sellers use this alot. but so do many people who run 2 chars..such as my self and use GTCs to fund the second. Now n then times get tight its nice having that backup knowledge of the char training while your making isk to get gtcs.
but the really important point isnt that they making the change. Its they gave insanely short notice and an a s s i n e reasoning.
--------------------------------------------------- Scordite -Who was it that said that flying minmatar is kinda like going down a flight of stairs on an office chair while firing an uzi? |
Tizoca
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Posted - 2008.10.14 03:21:00 -
[713]
You pay, you play, you don't, you get nothing. Same formula used by every other subscription game out there. Seriously - what character advancements to WoW, CoH, AoC, and the others give you while you aren't paying on your account? Heck, they don't even give you anything if you aren't ONLINE, which Eve does. I guess I just don't understand the hate being displayed here. I can see why some people would be disappointed at how it was handled, but the level of malice shocks me.
And no, I don't work for CCP. Mature people realize that not everyone has to agree with them, and those who disagree just may be doing it without getting paid to.
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Triksterism
Gallente Frozen Corpse Inspection Services United Federation of Capsuleers
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Posted - 2008.10.14 03:21:00 -
[714]
LOOK @ THE CHART!
Steady until now. Can't wait to see what happens to the chart in a week to a month. ---------------------------------------
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Kransthow
The Scope
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Posted - 2008.10.14 03:22:00 -
[715]
Look at all those whiners
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spaceman7777
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Posted - 2008.10.14 03:22:00 -
[716]
Edited by: spaceman7777 on 14/10/2008 03:25:00 Edited by: spaceman7777 on 14/10/2008 03:23:14 Edited by: spaceman7777 on 14/10/2008 03:22:48
Originally by: Triksterism LOOK @ THE CHART!
Steady until now. Can't wait to see what happens to the chart in a week to a month.
**** ascii
It will look like
----------- . . . . . . . .\ . . . . . . . . .\ . . . . . . . . . .\ . . . . . . . . . . .\_______
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Lhyda Souljacker
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.10.14 03:24:00 -
[717]
Originally by: Tizoca And no, I don't work for CCP. Mature people realize that not everyone has to agree with them, and those who disagree just may be doing it without getting paid to.
Mind posting with your main? You seem to be the only person really posting for this change.
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Mhaerdirne Solveig
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.10.14 03:26:00 -
[718]
Originally by: Ramirez Dora
There are far more unfair things in Eve than someone training Titan V on an inactive account. Everyone will benefit far more from a reversal on this decision, and you might want to ask business to actually consult the players for ideas before you pull this again. After all, we aren't stupid :)
Really, the timeline goes like this:
30 day GTCs go away.
People who want to keep their accounts active for only 30 days use credit cards and *cancel* their accounts, instead of *lapsing* them, as they did before. I myself subscribed, and immediately cancelled, like I've been doing in every MMO I've ever played for a long time (recurring charges for luxuries are the devil.) Also, money gets tight for a lot of folks, due to world economic events (in many cases, it's been tight for a few months!)
So, more people now affirmatively cancel their extra accounts, maybe they take a break for a bit.
The survey comes in, lots of people say, probably among other reasons, "hey I don't play any more because of money", and "hey I'm just inactive, I set a long skill, I'll be back."
CCP can't do anything about the first one except lower prices. CCP believes that it can affect the second.
From one kind of business perspective, CCP is leaving money on the table. "Hey!" says this sort of businessman, "These guys have more surplus to extract, I am not doing my job! I must get that surplus out of them!" However, from another marketing perspective, the "I'll be back" is the important part.
I remember Ultima Online, where you lost your player's house if your account lapsed. This was a real incentive to keep a UO account! However, it made going "Screw UO" permanently a very easy thing to do- the game downright encouraged it! Once you dropped your subscription, you would let your house fall, and that meant you probably couldn't keep all the stuff you had in it. So you gave that away, and often a whole lot more, too, before you left. I don't know too many people who seriously came back to UO to play like they did before once they made that step of letting their houses fall. It was a real psychological barrier.
On the other hand, I know many, many people who have gotten bored with Eve at one point, and have said "well I'll set a long skill and see how I feel about it in 30 days". And what do you know, 30 days pass, and then Evemon (which they still run out of habit) chimes in to tell them "hey you finished battleship V!" Now they're thinking about eve again, and they say, "hey I'll reactivate and maybe mess around a little. I didn't lose anything." There is no psychological barrier- eve in its current form encourages players to go do their own thing when they get temporarily tired of eve. "Come back when you want," the game says, "it's no big deal, I will wait for you. I think you will like what we will make later, you can see it when you are ready to play again and get tired of shooting people in 2fort."
This spirit is a major positive that the players of eve enjoy and appreciate, and is a big reason why I play. While it is likely not to get rid of my last remaining account if the change comes in, I am certain to simply not renew 2 accounts of mine that represent play styles I tried but didn't really take to. This is not a punishment to CCP, not a "**** YOU I AM GONNA PLAY WOW", but simply a fact that reflects how the game's structure will treat me. It is something I have been mulling but what was a consideration has now become a certainty with these changes.
So CCP should probably not do these changes if they care about their old players coming back, and their new players experiencing a slightly different sort of spirit in a MMO- but they are free to do what they want. It is their game. Whether they will be successful with this new direction is another question. Signature removed. Text is showing as "Signature no longer available" and filesize is well in excess of the allowed 400 x 120 pixels. Navigator |
Clone 231D
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Posted - 2008.10.14 03:26:00 -
[719]
One last thing and I am out.
CCP, you always used to tout on about EVE continuing to grow despite it's age.
A) Does this trend continue? ....I)If so is it slowing? ....II)If not what has changed?
You guys made eve a huge success being gamers making a game for gamers. You are gonna loose your Ferrari because you became businessmen instead of gamers and lost perspective.
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Daan Sai
Polytrope
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Posted - 2008.10.14 03:27:00 -
[720]
I can't help wondering what effect this will have on character farming and value of titan/mon pilot chars in the bazaar....
I think they might have given 30 days notice to allow for people who are away at the moment, thinking that they're still training.....
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Katarina Arisdeed
Caldari Macabre Votum Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2008.10.14 03:27:00 -
[721]
While I personally support the idea of getting rid of ghost training I do think that it could have been announce and handled a little bit better, if for example CCP has announce the skill queue as a segue into stopping ghost training then I dont think it would have recived this much of an outcry, I think most people would have gladly accepted the trade off if it were made to seem like that was the case.
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Trupplupagus
Settling Tank
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Posted - 2008.10.14 03:27:00 -
[722]
Edited by: Trupplupagus on 14/10/2008 03:29:39
Originally by: Tizoca You pay, you play, you don't, you get nothing. Same formula used by every other subscription game out there. Seriously - what character advancements to WoW, CoH, AoC, and the others give you while you aren't paying on your account? Heck, they don't even give you anything if you aren't ONLINE, which Eve does. I guess I just don't understand the hate being displayed here. I can see why some people would be disappointed at how it was handled, but the level of malice shocks me.
And no, I don't work for CCP. Mature people realize that not everyone has to agree with them, and those who disagree just may be doing it without getting paid to.
"I don't understand why people are upset that a feature they bought a game expecting is being taken away capriciously and under false premises. I see nothing wrong with this. I don't work for CCP, so I must be a huge ignoramus- it's the only other option."
Simply put, even if you don't really care, there's no reason whatsoever to SUPPORT CCP in this matter. Hence our suspicion when one of our own sides with the corporate sheisters over their fellow players.
If Eve promises to give me 3 apples and then takes two away, I don't give a shit that WoW and DaoC or whatever only gives 1 apple to begin with...I want the 3 apples that I paid for. Period!
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MataSanos
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Posted - 2008.10.14 03:28:00 -
[723]
Edited by: MataSanos on 14/10/2008 03:28:28
Originally by: Lhyda Souljacker
Originally by: Tizoca And no, I don't work for CCP. Mature people realize that not everyone has to agree with them, and those who disagree just may be doing it without getting paid to.
Mind posting with your main? You seem to be the only person really posting for this change.
bob alt this is good for bob(other old alliance) that all this years used this ghost training to get capital pilots on alt accounts and now new players have to pay for that is not fair
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Liranan
M'8'S Frontal Impact
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Posted - 2008.10.14 03:30:00 -
[724]
Last year March EVE had 42.711 players logged in. Since then CCP have been losing (logged in) players. Whether this means more and more people are resorting to ghost training is unknown to me but it's obvious CCP have been losing money. Then the link provided to the current situation in Iceland says this.
Reposted Link
"Iceland is crippled with debt and giving UK depositors their funds may depend on the country securing emergency loans from other countries or the International Monetary Fund (IMF).
Its debt is an estimated about ú50bn, which is five times the total annual income of the country."
HOLY JESUS CHRITS!!! I thought the US was in bad shape, Iceland is bankrupt 5 times over! Iceland is going to replace Albania as Europes poorest country?
I have five accounts and pay for a sixth. I am addicted to EVE and will shamelessly admit it. I am, however, no fan of CCP as I see CCP as a Sony-like company who will do whatever it takes to squeeze money out of their players. I have always paid for my subscriptions to keep them training eventhough I could have let the payments slide and make use of Ghost Training. I don't see it as honourable and I am using a service and would like to pay for it. So, I do understand this move but to say it's a bug! That is nothing more than a blatant lie and that even angers me because do you really think we're all ******ed fanboi's who will accept whatever you say as gospel and will bend over like the AOC fanboi's who claimed the game was great eventhough the game crashed every few minutes?
And then you attempt to prohibit us from talking about the game? No need for us to do it, you have done more harm to the game by lying than any of us possibly could. Keep deleting threads and posts, though, it's the only thing you can do until there's nobody left. Farjung is my God
You people need to open your eyes and read threads before you mindlessly spam the New Thread link. |
Catherine Frasier
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Posted - 2008.10.14 03:31:00 -
[725]
Originally by: Lhyda Souljacker
Originally by: Tizoca Mature people realize that not everyone has to agree with them, and those who disagree just may be doing it without getting paid to.
You seem to be the only person really posting for this change.
They're certainly not the only one who understands and agrees with this change.
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Mhaerdirne Solveig
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.10.14 03:31:00 -
[726]
Originally by: Liranan Last year March EVE had 42.711 players logged in. Since then CCP have been losing (logged in) players. Whether this means more and more people are resorting to ghost training is unknown to me but it's obvious CCP have been losing money. Then the link provided to the current situation in Iceland says this.
It is more likely that players are simply setting a long skill and saving a bit of money. This was OK when times were fat but now that they are lean, CCP is nervous. I cannot blame them, but I urge them to remember that a returning customer is the best customer. You do not have to find him, and he already likes you. Signature removed. Text is showing as "Signature no longer available" and filesize is well in excess of the allowed 400 x 120 pixels. Navigator |
Fader Bane
Black Knight Buccaneers Daisho Syndicate
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Posted - 2008.10.14 03:32:00 -
[727]
yeah when are we hearing the reponse to the player guide description hmm? I'm rather sure false advertising is a crime. ________________________________________
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The Ubernomicon
Eight year old girls GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.10.14 03:32:00 -
[728]
Edited by: The Ubernomicon on 14/10/2008 03:33:48 Here is a nice read about Icelanders and their terrible business sense.
Highlight from the article: "IcelandÆs households also racked up debts amounting to 213% of disposable income. Britons and Americans owed just 169% and 140% of disposable income respectivelyùfigures that make them seem almost sober by comparison."
What do you expect from people that believe in elves and pile rocks in their yards for the elves to live in.
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shuckstar
Gallente Hauling hogs
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Posted - 2008.10.14 03:32:00 -
[729]
Originally by: Carsidava Nope, sorry. This doesn't wash.
If you disable skill training for inactive accounts, why aren't you also disabling market orders from inactive accounts? Why aren't you also disabling RP accumulation from inactive accounts? Why aren't you disabling dividend payouts to inactive accounts?
Why are only skill points being hit?
Sorry CCP, this is an entirely unsatisfactory answer.
QFT
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myrtarous
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.10.14 03:32:00 -
[730]
Lapsing my characters has been my favorite feature of eve. I've always said so, and I use it as a major selling point when getting friends to sign up.
3 of my 5 accounts will not resubscribe and the characters will not sell or transfer.
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Mhaerdirne Solveig
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.10.14 03:33:00 -
[731]
Originally by: Fader Bane yeah when are we hearing the reponse to the player guide description hmm? I'm rather sure false advertising is a crime.
It is not illegal to change your mind. But why do they have to act like they have never heard of this practice before? Signature removed. Text is showing as "Signature no longer available" and filesize is well in excess of the allowed 400 x 120 pixels. Navigator |
Xero Hour
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Posted - 2008.10.14 03:34:00 -
[732]
Been playing since 2004, but this shit is too much.
---Two more accounts--- Subscription Status: Cancelled -----------------------
If CCP reconsiders then so shall I.
That is all.
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Haldane Fisher
Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2008.10.14 03:34:00 -
[733]
Originally by: The Ubernomicon Here is a nice read about Icelanders and their terrible business sense: http://www.economist.com/finance/displayStory.cfm?source=hptextfeature&story_id=12382011
Highlight from the article: "IcelandÆs households also racked up debts amounting to 213% of disposable income. Britons and Americans owed just 169% and 140% of disposable income respectivelyùfigures that make them seem almost sober by comparison."
What do you expect from people that believe in elves and pile rocks in their yards for the elves to live in.
So we're paying for Icelandic ignorance?
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Andrua
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Posted - 2008.10.14 03:36:00 -
[734]
Originally by: Catherine Frasier
Originally by: Lhyda Souljacker
Originally by: Tizoca Mature people realize that not everyone has to agree with them, and those who disagree just may be doing it without getting paid to.
You seem to be the only person really posting for this change.
They're certainly not the only one who understands and agrees with this change.
There is nothing wrong with understanding this change and agreeing to this change.
It is fundamentally wrong how CCP introduced this change. And they introduced in a manner that cannot state any more clearly that CCP has very little respect for players as sentient beings. Which, in my opinion, sparked much more outrage than the change itself.
Now, it its not that difficult to work out where such respect for players can lead EVE. And this is what really concerned me, since EVE by it's nature demands significant subscription commitment.
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Jesters Knight
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Posted - 2008.10.14 03:36:00 -
[735]
Edited by: Jesters Knight on 14/10/2008 03:40:57 CCP would have been better off fixing bugs so that people want to play, not the one that makes them want to come back dispite there crappy bugs.
-4 accounts
(and no, you cant have my stuff, I already have someone who i am going to sell stuff to cheap if I do. hey, i may want to come back someday but i highly doubt it)
Highsec POS's Skip the wait and research in the fast lane |
Annaphera
Minmatar Super Green Industries
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Posted - 2008.10.14 03:37:00 -
[736]
Originally by: Lhyda Souljacker
Originally by: Tizoca And no, I don't work for CCP. Mature people realize that not everyone has to agree with them, and those who disagree just may be doing it without getting paid to.
Mind posting with your main? You seem to be the only person really posting for this change.
*sigh* I have no problem at all posting with my main, other than the forums seem to have gotten the idea that Tizoca is my main for some reason, and if I don't remember to switch...
Beyond that...I'm not hugely for, though I'm definitely not against, as the fact that some people ghost train for large stretches bugs me. One, I'm still paying like a good little customer and two, that it is one more unfair advantage for older accounts.
What I'm really getting angry about is the sheer number of people that are acting like CCP is just out to get them, or trying to ruin their gameplay. Guess what? They're a business, and they can't afford to give out freebies any more. I wish people would stop acting like CCP has taken away something they (the players) are entitled to, especially people that are maintaining 5 or more accounts for some reason. I have two, plan to get a third, and will keep them all sub'ed so I can actually train and use them. If I can't afford to, then I'll let one go without whining because it won't get freebies while I'm not paying.
In short - people whining and playing victim is getting old, fast.
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Skut Farkuss
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Posted - 2008.10.14 03:37:00 -
[737]
Originally by: Trupplupagus Edited by: Trupplupagus on 14/10/2008 03:29:39
Originally by: Tizoca You pay, you play, you don't, you get nothing. Same formula used by every other subscription game out there. Seriously - what character advancements to WoW, CoH, AoC, and the others give you while you aren't paying on your account? Heck, they don't even give you anything if you aren't ONLINE, which Eve does. I guess I just don't understand the hate being displayed here. I can see why some people would be disappointed at how it was handled, but the level of malice shocks me.
And no, I don't work for CCP. Mature people realize that not everyone has to agree with them, and those who disagree just may be doing it without getting paid to.
"I don't understand why people are upset that a feature they bought a game expecting is being taken away capriciously and under false premises. I see nothing wrong with this. I don't work for CCP, so I must be a huge ignoramus- it's the only other option."
Simply put, even if you don't really care, there's no reason whatsoever to SUPPORT CCP in this matter. Hence our suspicion when one of our own sides with the corporate sheisters over their fellow players.
If Eve promises to give me 3 apples and then takes two away, I don't give a shit that WoW and DaoC or whatever only gives 1 apple to begin with...I want the 3 apples that I paid for. Period!
quotin' this for the traitors who somehow want CCP to win out over their corpmates and peers
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Catherine Frasier
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Posted - 2008.10.14 03:38:00 -
[738]
Originally by: Trupplupagus Simply put, even if you don't really care, there's no reason whatsoever to SUPPORT CCP in this matter.
Sure there is: it simply makes sense. "Ghost training" was an unintended consequence of the way they used to calculate skill point accumulation and handle inactive accounts. As more and more people exploited this little loophole it gave them incentive to finally get around to fixing it.
I don't see why they wouldn't and am frankly surprised that it took them this long. The only opposition I'm hearing is "HEY! I WAS TAKING ADVANTAGE OF THAT YOU BASTARDS!" which I hardly consider worthy of consideration.
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Trzzbk
Caldari GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.10.14 03:38:00 -
[739]
Originally by: Triksterism LOOK @ THE CHART!
Steady until now. Can't wait to see what happens to the chart in a week to a month.
I want to see the chart on ghost skilling that shows this "surge" and compare it to past "Power Of Two" promotions and the life of the game overall.
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Haldane Fisher
Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2008.10.14 03:39:00 -
[740]
Originally by: Jesters Knight CCP would have been better off fixing bugs so that people want to play, not the one that makes them want to come back dispite there crappy bugs.
-4 accounts
(and no, you cant have my stuff, I already have someone who i am going to sell stuff to cheap if I do. hey, i may want to come back someday but i highly coubt it)
I have several accounts, I usually keep 3 subbed at any given time. I'm gonna wait for a while and see how CCP react to this uproar.
I'll decide whether its worth paying money to a company that I thought was different, or whether I'd be better off waiting to see if Infinity gets published.
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P'uck
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Posted - 2008.10.14 03:40:00 -
[741]
Edited by: P''uck on 14/10/2008 03:42:28 Alright I LOVE eve. It makes me come up with nerd jokes.
The first one I got I thought of months ago: What's a tackler without a scram? -It's pointless!
And another one, JUST now: What's the difference between Microsoft and CCP MS: "It's not a bug, it's a feature" CCP: "It's not a feature, it's a bug!"
But once again, screw you CCP. I've been a fan of this game and the people who made it for years. But right now, you guys suck big time. First you treat us like idiots and then you proceed to exercise some perverted form of damage control that isn't really better than the first screwup.
edit: oh and something else, I doubt somebody that matters will read it, but I can at least try; get your act together before you kill off eve. I really would hate to see it die.
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Trupplupagus
Settling Tank
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Posted - 2008.10.14 03:40:00 -
[742]
Edited by: Trupplupagus on 14/10/2008 03:41:48
Originally by: Catherine Frasier
Originally by: Trupplupagus Simply put, even if you don't really care, there's no reason whatsoever to SUPPORT CCP in this matter.
Sure there is: it simply makes sense. "Ghost training" was an unintended consequence of the way they used to calculate skill point accumulation and handle inactive accounts. As more and more people exploited this little loophole it gave them incentive to finally get around to fixing it.
I don't see why they wouldn't and am frankly surprised that it took them this long. The only opposition I'm hearing is "HEY! I WAS TAKING ADVANTAGE OF THAT YOU BASTARDS!" which I hardly consider worthy of consideration.
It's a feature used to sell the game, they aren't 'getting around to fixing it' after 5 years, that's idiotic, and finally, those people simply get a few days additional training. They don't have the money, rep, ships, or interpersonal connections that an active player has. On top of that, it's a wonderful feature for casual players to stay interested and to bring new players to the game.
There's very little harm to you or to CCP in keeping it, and much in getting rid of it.
Hell yes, I was 'taking advantage of' that feature that I knew I was getting when I signed up for the game...as well I should have.
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FemmeFatal
Control Theory
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Posted - 2008.10.14 03:41:00 -
[743]
Originally by: Haldane Fisher
Originally by: The Ubernomicon Here is a nice read about Icelanders and their terrible business sense: http://www.economist.com/finance/displayStory.cfm?source=hptextfeature&story_id=12382011
Highlight from the article: "IcelandÆs households also racked up debts amounting to 213% of disposable income. Britons and Americans owed just 169% and 140% of disposable income respectivelyùfigures that make them seem almost sober by comparison."
What do you expect from people that believe in elves and pile rocks in their yards for the elves to live in.
So we're paying for Icelandic ignorance?
I was under the impression that CCP paid employees in ISK which is currently equivalent to shit but collects USD and Euros, so unless they have reacted by giving employees massive raises they should be making additional profit. The ISK collapse is pricing their Icelanding employees on par with outsourcing computer work to India, except without having to actually move anything.
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Mhaerdirne Solveig
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.10.14 03:42:00 -
[744]
Originally by: P'uck Alright I LOVE eve. It makes me come up with nerd jokes.
oh god please never speak of this again Signature removed. Text is showing as "Signature no longer available" and filesize is well in excess of the allowed 400 x 120 pixels. Navigator |
Haldane Fisher
Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2008.10.14 03:42:00 -
[745]
Originally by: Catherine Frasier
Originally by: Trupplupagus Simply put, even if you don't really care, there's no reason whatsoever to SUPPORT CCP in this matter.
Sure there is: it simply makes sense. "Ghost training" was an unintended consequence of the way they used to calculate skill point accumulation and handle inactive accounts. As more and more people exploited this little loophole it gave them incentive to finally get around to fixing it.
Accidental or not, it was advertised as a feature.
How about showing me another game (a proper one) with real time skill training. And then show me how many people actually play it.
the only reason people get by with eve's skill training system is the fact that you could train out of subscription.
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Stretchmeat Crotchquake
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.10.14 03:42:00 -
[746]
So how long until they fix that bug that lets you train skills even when you're logged off? No other MMO lets me do this!
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SZ Rota
Caldari Eve University Ivy League
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Posted - 2008.10.14 03:43:00 -
[747]
So, in this thread, CCP says that itÆs not fair to CCP as a service provider to have to support people who arenÆt paying them active subscriptions on all training characters.
As if the people who are æghost trainingÆ are cheating CCP out of money, making them go hungry. ThatÆs what Torfi is saying.
Nothing could be further from the truth.
As a matter of fact, the exact opposite is true.
CCP as a company provides less service and less content than almost any other mmorpg company out there, while trying to squeeze MORE in subscriptions on a per player basis, out of the players.
Did you notice how tiny that last patch was? Did you even see how ridiculously small that æexpansionÆ was in your hard drive? Does anyone really recognize how paper thin their content really is? You donÆt pay for content. You pay for a sandbox to play in. Game is out 5.5 years and the game is only 3Gigs on my harddrive and they have the audacity to tell me theyÆre working hard on improving the game while getting paid too little? Ok, ok, back to the ghost training thing.
This change is a shameless money grab that will lose them existing customers and deter newer players from taking up the game.
Alts are integral to any mmorpg. Some people are happy with one character, but almost all serious players in almost all mmorpgs have more than one character.
I mean fully functioning alts, not a 1 hour shake-n-bake hauler alt.
Example: You play all the time and enjoy the 0.0 end game and one of your characters is dedicated to fighting for one of the big coalitions, butà you want to enjoy other aspects of the game, and play with friends who are not in one of the big end game coalitions, so you have another alt with which you might try out FW or piracy or anti-piracy or industry, or merc life, or whatever.
Nobody in their right mind pays for more than one account to have alts in other games. Sure, rare people do, but in other games itÆs just not necessary, because one account and one subscription accommodates several characters.
Eve is one of those bizarre places where people live in complete denial about many things, and the scam with regard to forcing payment on multiple accounts is one giant squid in the room that nobody talks about.
For me, until now, I could try to keep the price of two characters down by ghost training one while playing the other. That still left Eve inferior to other games with respect cost for services, because I was forced to leave one character inactive at a time, while in other games I could play any alt I wanted whenever I wanted. I know I was being cheated, but I lived with it to play Eve and be with friends.
Ending ghost training is just over the top. That, I cannot live with.
CCP is cheating players out of money, and on top of it, insulting us further by lieing about.
Continued in my next post right belowà.
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Mhaerdirne Solveig
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.10.14 03:44:00 -
[748]
Originally by: Stretchmeat Crotchquake So how long until they fix that bug that lets you train skills even when you're logged off? No other MMO lets me do this!
holy crap that is a great name Signature removed. Text is showing as "Signature no longer available" and filesize is well in excess of the allowed 400 x 120 pixels. Navigator |
SZ Rota
Caldari Eve University Ivy League
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Posted - 2008.10.14 03:44:00 -
[749]
An official stated reason for the change, given in the other sticky, is.. ôThis practice upsets the balance of the game, and capsuleers who actively put their time and energy into working on their characters will no longer be unfairly affected by those few who have not.ö
Pardon me CCP, but the game is going on five and a half years old. If there was a grave imbalance, people would have written about it. On the contrary, not only were there essentially no people complaining about it earlier, but currently players hate this change. You are not doing this for the players, youÆre doing this to cheat them out of more money. Everyone sees that.
LetÆs look at the substance of the stated reason for this change. Can you imagine the balls the CCP CEO has to have in order to have a spokesman say the above. The stated reason is because they want to have players work on their characters rather than get æfreeÆ advancement? Um, pink elephant in the room, squid in the room, hey, bloody dagger in the back, HELLO! YOU HAVE A FOUM WHERE ANYONE WITH REAL MONEY CAN, WITHIN THE EULA, BUY AS MUCH IN GAME CURRENCY AS THEY WANT AND BUY A CHARACTER 5 YEARS MORE ADVANCED IF THEY WANT. With enough cash, I can legally by game rules buy a titan and a titan pilot. And yet you, CCP, have the balls to say that youÆre curtailing ghost training to even things between people who æworkÆ in game for their progress and those who donÆt? Shame on you for the repulsive, translucent dishonesty and avarice.
On the topic of RMT, real cash for in game advancement, some people excuse the forced payment for multiple accounts to skill up more than one character by saying that itÆs not so bad when you can pay for GTCs, play time, with in game currency. It has always baffled me why people in Eve hate gold farmers so vehemently, while at the same time condone CCP making their own player base into gold farmers. What else would you call it when a game has some players earn in game currency by working in game, while others pay real cash for that in game currency, and the gaming company taking a cut. I donÆt care if you do it on the CCP official site, or if you do it on the black market, if you earn isk and you sell it for real life cash, you are a gold farmer. Am I saying that people who buy and sell gold are evil? No, not at all. IÆm not taking sides on that issue. IÆm not here to argue for or against RMT, IÆm NOT. IÆm not here to argue for or against gold farming or character trade or anything. IÆm NOT. My point is just to say that itÆs the height of hypocrisy for CCP to maintain theyÆre going for æfairÆ with regard to work and player advancement, and the height of denial for players to maintain CCP isnÆt using them as gold farmers. If you have a second or third account, and you pay for it with isk for GTC, and youÆre happy, then great, fantastic, wonderful, IÆm happy for you. Still, neither you, nor CCP can deny that essentially, youÆre paying for that account by gold farming for CCP. If youÆre happy, IÆm happy, but donÆt tell me itÆs not gold farming for CCP, because it is.
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Haldane Fisher
Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2008.10.14 03:44:00 -
[750]
Originally by: FemmeFatal
Originally by: Haldane Fisher
Originally by: The Ubernomicon Here is a nice read about Icelanders and their terrible business sense: http://www.economist.com/finance/displayStory.cfm?source=hptextfeature&story_id=12382011
Highlight from the article: "IcelandÆs households also racked up debts amounting to 213% of disposable income. Britons and Americans owed just 169% and 140% of disposable income respectivelyùfigures that make them seem almost sober by comparison."
What do you expect from people that believe in elves and pile rocks in their yards for the elves to live in.
So we're paying for Icelandic ignorance?
I was under the impression that CCP paid employees in ISK which is currently equivalent to shit but collects USD and Euros, so unless they have reacted by giving employees massive raises they should be making additional profit. The ISK collapse is pricing their Icelanding employees on par with outsourcing computer work to India, except without having to actually move anything.
But Helmar and co have doubtless large fat wad mortgages to pay on their mansions and "escorts". That needs cash.
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Catherine Frasier
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Posted - 2008.10.14 03:45:00 -
[751]
Originally by: Trupplupagus It's a feature used to sell the game, they aren't 'getting around to fixing it' after 5 years, that's idiotic, and finally, those people simply get a few days additional training. They don't have the money, rep, ships, or interpersonal connections that an active player has. On top of that, it's a wonderful feature for casual players to stay interested and to bring new players to the game.
There's very little harm to you or to CCP in keeping it, and much in getting rid of it.
1) Very little harm isn't the same as no harm.
2)This may be why you bought the game (as completely weird as that seems to me) but it's certainly not "used to sell the game" in any meaningful fashion. It's not in the ads, the promos, the trailers, the interviews, etc...
3)Most people never, ever, ever take advantage of this "wonderful feature". Many of us, in fact, consider it extreme metagaming: cheating, to be blunt.
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Seth Ruin
Minmatar Ominous Corp Ethereal Dawn
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Posted - 2008.10.14 03:45:00 -
[752]
Originally by: Stretchmeat Crotchquake So how long until they fix that bug that lets you train skills even when you're logged off? No other MMO lets me do this!
Next week, my friend.
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The Ubernomicon
Eight year old girls GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.10.14 03:46:00 -
[753]
Edited by: The Ubernomicon on 14/10/2008 03:48:37
Originally by: FemmeFatal
Originally by: Haldane Fisher
Originally by: The Ubernomicon Here is a nice read about Icelanders and their terrible business sense: http://www.economist.com/finance/displayStory.cfm?source=hptextfeature&story_id=12382011
Highlight from the article: "IcelandÆs households also racked up debts amounting to 213% of disposable income. Britons and Americans owed just 169% and 140% of disposable income respectivelyùfigures that make them seem almost sober by comparison."
What do you expect from people that believe in elves and pile rocks in their yards for the elves to live in.
So we're paying for Icelandic ignorance?
I was under the impression that CCP paid employees in ISK which is currently equivalent to shit but collects USD and Euros, so unless they have reacted by giving employees massive raises they should be making additional profit. The ISK collapse is pricing their Icelanding employees on par with outsourcing computer work to India, except without having to actually move anything.
That makes sense, but I suspect that all of the money CCP was getting from subscriptions they put in to local banks to take advantage of the "booming" Icelandic economy. This would explain the sudden need for immediate (re)subscriptions.
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Duckbar
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.10.14 03:46:00 -
[754]
One funny thing to do if you really and truly are done with the game, is if you just paid up using a real life credit card, and not a timecard, ask for a refund. If denied the refund, charge it back. Easy as pie, it's an internet charge, and possibly even an international one.
It's all spelled out in their merchant agreement that they can't bait and switch.
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Trupplupagus
Settling Tank
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Posted - 2008.10.14 03:47:00 -
[755]
Edited by: Trupplupagus on 14/10/2008 03:47:02
Originally by: Catherine Frasier
3)Most people never, ever, ever take advantage of this "wonderful feature". Many of us, in fact, consider it extreme metagaming: cheating, to be blunt.
So you are a CCP employee.
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Catherine Frasier
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Posted - 2008.10.14 03:47:00 -
[756]
Originally by: Haldane Fisher the only reason people get by with eve's skill training system is the fact that you could train out of subscription.
Speak for yourself.
I've never taken advantage of "ghost training", never felt the need or the desire and am quite pleased to see it go. (And hopefully to see the folks who take advantage of such things go with it.)
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Zinnn
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Posted - 2008.10.14 03:47:00 -
[757]
I need to set the record straight. I only took advantage of this for like a couple days - that's cause my account lapsed and I wasn't paying attention. Even if I never use this feature, I still want it in eve. I think it's crazy that CCP expects people to actually wait for a 90 day skill to train, and expects them NOT to go away for a while, while they're BORED with the current features of the game. If ccp wants to fix subscription problems, they need to add content, not take away features. I've had this complaint about CCP for my entire eve life - which has been for a solid year. Missions are busywork, mining is boring, POS warfare is tedious, and faction warfare is mainly just a blobfest. Missions aren't interactive enough, mining isn't interesting enough, POS warfare has to like, die or change somehow, and don't get me started how to fix faction warfare, mainly because I have no real suggestions for it. CCP has to fix their product, true, but this "bugfix" is not the way to do it.
CCP, please find something better to do with your time.
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Ishbuanium
Black Skull Legion Veneratio Venator Alliance
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Posted - 2008.10.14 03:47:00 -
[758]
Originally by: Stretchmeat Crotchquake So how long until they fix that bug that lets you train skills even when you're logged off? No other MMO lets me do this!
I detect sarcasm!
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Mhaerdirne Solveig
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.10.14 03:48:00 -
[759]
Originally by: Catherine Frasier
Originally by: Haldane Fisher the only reason people get by with eve's skill training system is the fact that you could train out of subscription.
Speak for yourself.
I've never taken advantage of "ghost training", never felt the need or the desire and am quite pleased to see it go. (And hopefully to see the folks who take advantage of such things go with it.)
Do you wish CCP to make less money? That might impact the future of the game. Signature removed. Text is showing as "Signature no longer available" and filesize is well in excess of the allowed 400 x 120 pixels. Navigator |
Annaphera
Minmatar Super Green Industries
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Posted - 2008.10.14 03:49:00 -
[760]
Originally by: Trupplupagus Edited by: Trupplupagus on 14/10/2008 03:29:39
Originally by: Tizoca You pay, you play, you don't, you get nothing. Same formula used by every other subscription game out there. Seriously - what character advancements to WoW, CoH, AoC, and the others give you while you aren't paying on your account? Heck, they don't even give you anything if you aren't ONLINE, which Eve does. I guess I just don't understand the hate being displayed here. I can see why some people would be disappointed at how it was handled, but the level of malice shocks me.
And no, I don't work for CCP. Mature people realize that not everyone has to agree with them, and those who disagree just may be doing it without getting paid to.
"I don't understand why people are upset that a feature they bought a game expecting is being taken away capriciously and under false premises. I see nothing wrong with this. I don't work for CCP, so I must be a huge ignoramus- it's the only other option."
Mature people don't resort to name-calling, either. Honestly, I must question how many people actually bought Eve for the sole reason that training while not paying was possible, and then assumed that -contrary to the warnings that gameplay can change and years of MMO's showing that it often does- it would never be removed. Naive, wouldn't you say?
Originally by: Trupplupagus Simply put, even if you don't really care, there's no reason whatsoever to SUPPORT CCP in this matter. Hence our suspicion when one of our own sides with the corporate sheisters over their fellow players.
If Eve promises to give me 3 apples and then takes two away, I don't give a shit that WoW and DaoC or whatever only gives 1 apple to begin with...I want the 3 apples that I paid for. Period!
You've dredged a minor quote out of the player guide that talked about how the game worked at the time, and are claiming it was a major promise. Naive. As far as the "corporate sheisters" go, they are business people; I don't get shocked and outraged when they make a decision to stop giving things away. This also isn't an "us against them" thing; the world isn't a black and white place.
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Cosy Ceaon
Gallente Aliastra
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Posted - 2008.10.14 03:49:00 -
[761]
Originally by: Triksterism LOOK @ THE CHART!
Steady until now. Can't wait to see what happens to the chart in a week to a month.
alternative http://mmogdata.voig.com/voig/ContentList/MMOGDATA/Charts/7.ViewChart?aLanguage=en-us&a5Years=Y
is a bug is a bug a buuuuuuuuuuuuug |
LuckyStrikeLord
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Posted - 2008.10.14 03:50:00 -
[762]
Originally by: Stretchmeat Crotchquake So how long until they fix that bug that lets you train skills even when you're logged off? No other MMO lets me do this!
Don't worry, its perfectly safe. They use this as a selling point for the game. [/sarcasm]
This is totally something that if exchanged for ANY sort of progressive movement in eve, would probably have been well accepted. However, CCP hotdrops the fact they're cutting it out 2 days prior to patch release, and all everyone gets to look forward too is more ninja nerfing, and a sour taste in their mouths since they realize the company they pay for a great game is willing to lie, boldfaced to the player base.
CCP, I thought you were about the music...
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Haldane Fisher
Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2008.10.14 03:50:00 -
[763]
Originally by: Catherine Frasier
Originally by: Haldane Fisher the only reason people get by with eve's skill training system is the fact that you could train out of subscription.
Speak for yourself.
I've never taken advantage of "ghost training", never felt the need or the desire and am quite pleased to see it go. (And hopefully to see the folks who take advantage of such things go with it.)
I call bullshit. Either you are lying or you are in fact a lump of cheese.
"Skills continue training even if you are logged off or if your account is inactive (in the second scenario you can't change skill training, though)." |
Catherine Frasier
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Posted - 2008.10.14 03:51:00 -
[764]
Originally by: Trupplupagus
Originally by: Catherine Frasier 3)Most people never, ever, ever take advantage of this "wonderful feature". Many of us, in fact, consider it extreme metagaming: cheating, to be blunt.
So you are a CCP employee.
Nope, I just agree with them.
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Zareph
Merch Industrial GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.10.14 03:51:00 -
[765]
Originally by: Duckbar One funny thing to do if you really and truly are done with the game, is if you just paid up using a real life credit card, and not a timecard, ask for a refund. If denied the refund, charge it back. Easy as pie, it's an internet charge, and possibly even an international one.
It's all spelled out in their merchant agreement that they can't bait and switch.
been there done that on my brand new power of 2 alt, debating doing it on the other two accounts that I just resubbed within the last week. All cash transaction, no isk.
While all answers are replies, not all replies are answers. |
Khwalik
Ghetto Kings
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Posted - 2008.10.14 03:51:00 -
[766]
Still what I have issue with, and I have never ghost trained an account...this is really going beyond the whole 'ghost training' thing it has been for some time well before Icelands econ went in the **** scoop.
What I must say and I think a few of us are getting it, is the fact that CCP are honestly treating their player base like utter *******s...and I for one am not buying it...
If the whole operation is going into the crapper...which I must assume it is....be honest to the player base....don't just **** us without the common decency to give us a reach-around.
As I'm saying this goes well beyond the whole 'ghost training' wake up people.
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Catherine Frasier
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Posted - 2008.10.14 03:52:00 -
[767]
Originally by: Haldane Fisher I call bullshit. Either you are lying or you are in fact a lump of cheese.
Turns out there's a third possibility...
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Sento Garix
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Posted - 2008.10.14 03:52:00 -
[768]
Originally by: Peter Greed
Hey, maybe a 're-do'? When will that 're-do' statement be ready? I can write it for you:
************ Dear players,
We know the beloved ghost training nerf comes as a shock for most of you. It has really been enjoyable watching everyone e-suffer about it. We apologize about the 'bug' statement that was made earlier. The gentlemen had never heard an explanation, so he naturally assumed the 'ghost training' feature we have all been talking about for years was really something else entirely.
So, we need more income. We realize blunt force truth rarely works these days, but we got a memo today telling us that our playerbase wasn't full of hacks and asshats. Now, we've manned up and handled business. We only regret that we can't collect interest from the tears of all the e-tradgedy.
Thanks, we all hope you enjoy playing this MMO as much as we enjoy modeling ourselves like any great Sony MMO. -The Eve Fatcats
Greed sees Greed.
This is priceless. BAHAHAHAAAA
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Haldane Fisher
Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2008.10.14 03:53:00 -
[769]
Originally by: Zareph
Originally by: Duckbar One funny thing to do if you really and truly are done with the game, is if you just paid up using a real life credit card, and not a timecard, ask for a refund. If denied the refund, charge it back. Easy as pie, it's an internet charge, and possibly even an international one.
It's all spelled out in their merchant agreement that they can't bait and switch.
been there done that on my brand new power of 2 alt, debating doing it on the other two accounts that I just resubbed within the last week. All cash transaction, no isk.
I'd get as many of your compatriots to do it as well, then you might be able to do something nice for the eve community :P.
Also, get your inevitable CSM to kick up stink about it.
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Divideby0
Gallente Cloak and Daggers
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Posted - 2008.10.14 03:53:00 -
[770]
HAHAHAHHAAHHAHA...
I really don't see the problem here. "So you no longer get something you are not paying for." I sense a whole lot of people are ****ed that they can no longer cheaply maintain their "capital alt" fleet.
$15 is not that much money. Cable television costs at least 2-3x that in the US. In some places, that's three beers. Drink three less beers next month and you can keep your alt training. (hey, if you pay in advance, its cheaper.)
I really doubt they will lose that many customers. Those customers will just stop paying so much to play. And if they DO leave, that just means more space for the rest of us.
Can we have your stuff?
Who is the bigger carebear: The miner who braves lowsec on his own, or the "PvPer" who attacks an unarmed ship? I support the f |
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Cosy Ceaon
Gallente Aliastra
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Posted - 2008.10.14 03:53:00 -
[771]
Originally by: Catherine Frasier
Originally by: Trupplupagus
Originally by: Catherine Frasier 3)Most people never, ever, ever take advantage of this "wonderful feature". Many of us, in fact, consider it extreme metagaming: cheating, to be blunt.
So you are a CCP employee.
Nope, I just agree with them.
because they pay u btw u win sufficient money one month to get 5 times drunk in iceland ?
is a bug is a bug a buuuuuuuuuuuuug |
Alex Salas
BROTHERHOOD OF SPARTA Pupule 'Ohana
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Posted - 2008.10.14 03:53:00 -
[772]
So how about banning character sales while you are at it CCP?
They unfairly affect gamers who apparently do not have the luxury of multiple accounts that wish to convert their time into ISK for whatever reason? EVE lies...rotating FTL!!!
http://myeve.eve-online.com/updates/patchnotes.asp?patchlogID=99On the Serenity server, skills no longer train when the owning account is deactivated. Tranquility |
Sanity Lost
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Posted - 2008.10.14 03:53:00 -
[773]
A very foolish move by CCP. This will have a negative impact on the game as a whole. Many of their subscriptions were taken out with the full knowledge that ghost training was a possible and from their own knowledge base advertised feature. I can see a loss of subscriptions and certainly a lot less new subscriptions.
A stupid move.
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Trupplupagus
Settling Tank
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Posted - 2008.10.14 03:54:00 -
[774]
Originally by: Catherine Frasier
Originally by: Trupplupagus
Originally by: Catherine Frasier 3)Most people never, ever, ever take advantage of this "wonderful feature". Many of us, in fact, consider it extreme metagaming: cheating, to be blunt.
So you are a CCP employee.
Nope, I just agree with them.
It is not a minority opinion that CCP is a bad company, and this issue proves they're out to get your money, even if ghost training doesn't effect you on this issue. The options (and there really are just two) are that you are a bad, suckup sycophant without empathy for your peers, or you are, in fact, related to or employed by the company.
You are not credible, even if by some disgusting twist of fate you're the real deal. Shoo
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I I
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Posted - 2008.10.14 03:55:00 -
[775]
hey,
last time I made comment it was on power of 2 and that scam, 95% of the responses where CCP arse kissers. Does it feel good know your stuck with multiple accounts and paying for a nice tasty 50 day skill as it now becomes a bug, lol. Hats off for getting as many multiple accts b4 you impliment this, great scam. Read your own comments ccp, its in ur crap arse manual and part of the game. Most the players here were born at night but not last nite.
gj, CCP blow it out ur seabag
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Khwalik
Ghetto Kings
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Posted - 2008.10.14 03:55:00 -
[776]
Originally by: Haldane Fisher
Originally by: Zareph
Originally by: Duckbar One funny thing to do if you really and truly are done with the game, is if you just paid up using a real life credit card, and not a timecard, ask for a refund. If denied the refund, charge it back. Easy as pie, it's an internet charge, and possibly even an international one.
It's all spelled out in their merchant agreement that they can't bait and switch.
been there done that on my brand new power of 2 alt, debating doing it on the other two accounts that I just resubbed within the last week. All cash transaction, no isk.
I'd get as many of your compatriots to do it as well, then you might be able to do something nice for the eve community :P.
Also, get your inevitable CSM to kick up stink about it.
CSM? now that's a laugh like it'll matter one outgoing....nearly as bad as the election here in the States having any meaning.
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chaktil
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Posted - 2008.10.14 03:55:00 -
[777]
**** you CCP, **** you Ianna Zunni you are a fat ****dumpster. smoske got run over by a truck beep beep lol. Free Kugutsumen.
You can ban this account because there is no way in **** that its being used anymore.
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Catherine Frasier
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Posted - 2008.10.14 03:56:00 -
[778]
Originally by: Cosy Ceaon
Originally by: Catherine Frasier
Originally by: Trupplupagus
Originally by: Catherine Frasier 3)Most people never, ever, ever take advantage of this "wonderful feature". Many of us, in fact, consider it extreme metagaming: cheating, to be blunt.
So you are a CCP employee.
Nope, I just agree with them.
because they pay u btw u win sufficient money one month to get 5 times drunk in iceland ?
Sweetheart, if it makes you feel better to think that nobody could possibly disagree with you unless they're paid, then go right ahead. It's puerile but don't let that stop you.
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Haldane Fisher
Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2008.10.14 03:57:00 -
[779]
Originally by: Divideby0 HAHAHAHHAAHHAHA...
I really don't see the problem here. "So you no longer get something you are not paying for." I sense a whole lot of people are ****ed that they can no longer cheaply maintain their "capital alt" fleet.
$15 is not that much money. Cable television costs at least 2-3x that in the US. In some places, that's three beers. Drink three less beers next month and you can keep your alt training. (hey, if you pay in advance, its cheaper.)
Can we have your stuff?
What part of "it was a feature" do you not get? Is your brain fried? Or have you become blinded by getting too close to ccp's rectum?
Any other MMO rewards you for your time spent instantly. Eve doesn't, to make up for it, the real time training continues whether you are subscribed or not.
Anyone else thinking of the starting character sp boost? Everyone got free sp whether they were subscribed or not, will that now be removed?
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Stretchmeat Crotchquake
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.10.14 03:57:00 -
[780]
Originally by: Ishbuanium
Originally by: Stretchmeat Crotchquake So how long until they fix that bug that lets you train skills even when you're logged off? No other MMO lets me do this!
I detect sarcasm!
You detect WRONG, this is a serious exploit that is totally unfair to players like me who leave their EVE clients open 16 hours per day, and is consuming precious server resources even when players aren't logged in.
Just think of how much less lag we'd have if they weren't wasting processor cycles bumping skillpoints on players that are LOGGED OFF!
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Haldane Fisher
Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2008.10.14 03:58:00 -
[781]
Originally by: Catherine Frasier
Originally by: Cosy Ceaon
Originally by: Catherine Frasier
Originally by: Trupplupagus
Originally by: Catherine Frasier 3)Most people never, ever, ever take advantage of this "wonderful feature". Many of us, in fact, consider it extreme metagaming: cheating, to be blunt.
So you are a CCP employee.
Nope, I just agree with them.
because they pay u btw u win sufficient money one month to get 5 times drunk in iceland ?
Sweetheart, if it makes you feel better to think that nobody could possibly disagree with you unless they're paid, then go right ahead. It's puerile but don't let that stop you.
We aren't disagreeing with you for any other reason that you sound like a zealot. In this case there is nothing to be zealous about as the facts speak quite clearly for themselves.
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Talitana
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.10.14 03:59:00 -
[782]
pubbies from empire ... wins again yay
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Khwalik
Ghetto Kings
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 04:00:00 -
[783]
Just somethingelse to chew over....what about all these CCP outings I've heard about over the years to nice 'exotic' locations for staff.....How much did all that cost?
This isn't about 'ghost training' people it's about accountability and CCP I think has blown a big fat wad of blanks on a fat chick.
just my .2 isk worth
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Skut Farkuss
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 04:00:00 -
[784]
Originally by: Talitana pubbies from empire ... wins again yay
goonswarm are the true pubbies
now you know what it is to be owned
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hiremerc
Amarr Royal Amarr Institute
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 04:01:00 -
[785]
Originally by: Stretchmeat Crotchquake
Just think of how much less lag we'd have if they weren't wasting processor cycles bumping skillpoints on players that are LOGGED OFF!
Probably makes very little difference all we have is CCP's word for it and after this manouver we cant take anything tney say seriously. Besides i would rather have skillpoints calculated whilst logged off than have a goon connected to eve anyway :P
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Haldane Fisher
Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 04:02:00 -
[786]
Originally by: Khwalik Just somethingelse to chew over....what about all these CCP outings I've heard about over the years to nice 'exotic' locations for staff.....How much did all that cost?
This isn't about 'ghost training' people it's about accountability and CCP I think has blown a big fat wad of blanks on a fat chick.
just my .2 isk worth
In other words, that fat chick had a wang
|
Jesters Knight
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 04:02:00 -
[787]
The feelings that me and my friends have is this:
we have no reason to play. it takes a long time to do anything, you have favored the PVP characters, you have SEVERAL bugs on the "known issues page" that would have caused us to stop playing a long time ago.
you should have given us a reason to activate our accounts; given us a reason to play.
this does not give me a reson to play, but takes away my reason to come back to a buggy MMO that no longer has anything over the other games.
Highsec POS's Skip the wait and research in the fast lane |
Acidius
Gallente Rukongai Vanguard.
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 04:03:00 -
[788]
Seriously CCP...is it really worth aggrivating so many customers?
If you had fixed it sooner, it wouldn't have such an impact. But since its been around so long, it has become part of EVE (no matter how you argue about it).
And the spike of this trend is because of Power of Two. People are putting their main account on BS V and playing the 2nd account. So its because of "ghost training" you have so many people participate in Power of Two. And its because of "ghost training" you have as many people with multiple accounts.
You may not think this decision will affect the game. But you are wrong.
You will definitely see a decrease in multiple accounts per user. And this will cause a domino effect hindering the economy and all other player activity (pvp, pve, etc).
Please reconsider this devestating decision.
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chaktil
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 04:03:00 -
[789]
t20, admiral charsomething or the other banme
|
Finger Licking
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 04:04:00 -
[790]
CCP, rethink what you are doing.
Quote: Skills continue training even if you are logged off or if your account is inactive
I know that I, for one, used this as a timed break from the game...it was one of the many things that made EVE great....to know that, although I lost out on a lot of income potential, and fun, I didn't lose ground in the skills department unless circumstances caused me to miss coming back before the skill ended. Now that feature, which you extolled as a feature (never once in the five years I have been playing, have you called it a bug, until now) to EVE, is gone too. There is absolutely no incentive for me to come back after my next break, having lost so much training time. You can see how many accounts I have, how many I have had for a long time.
It saddens me that the game has progressed to this stage...it had such potential...
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Zinnn
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 04:05:00 -
[791]
chaktil a ban would mean they'd have to be paying attention to this thread....
|
Kif
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 04:06:00 -
[792]
Originally by: Skut Farkuss
Originally by: Talitana pubbies from empire ... wins again yay
goonswarm are the true pubbies
now you know what it is to be owned
Congratulations on gleaning some worn out catchphrases by goon standards and mashing buttons to make another shitpost.
See how fun this game is when there is no one left in 0.0
|
Catherine Frasier
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 04:06:00 -
[793]
Originally by: Trupplupagus It is not a minority opinion that CCP is a bad company
Opinions are like anal sphincters- everybody's got one. So? I like the game and have had no significant complaints about CCP's level of service over the years. YMMV.
Originally by: Trupplupagus and this issue proves they're out to get your money
OMG! A company selling something who is (GASP!) out to get our money?! No way!
Originally by: Trupplupagus even if ghost training doesn't effect you on this issue. The options (and there really are just two) are that you are a bad, suckup sycophant without empathy for your peers, or you are, in fact, related to or employed by the company.
Third option: I understand, respect and support CCP's decision on this matter. Maybe you can only function in simplistic terms of "good company" or "bad company", but I am capable of examining things like this on their own merits. It's a reasonable decision. I understand it. I support it.
As to "empathy for my peers", my peers don't metagame, don't cheat and don't emoragequit over a policy change. Those who do, while they may be my fellow Eve players, are not my peers, and for them I have very, very little sympathy. To be blunt: screw 'em.
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SkwisgaarSkwigelf
C.R.M Productions
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 04:06:00 -
[794]
Originally by: Zinnn chaktil a ban would mean they'd have to be paying attention to this thread....
|
PsychoBones II
R.E.C.O.N. The Firm.
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 04:07:00 -
[795]
Originally by: Skut Farkuss
Originally by: Talitana pubbies from empire ... wins again yay
goonswarm are the true pubbies
now you know what it is to be owned
you sure showed him
Quit banning me. |
Maddog Smee
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 04:09:00 -
[796]
I'm happy to see the move on ghost-training.
But, what about ghost research? I believe this is even worse than ghost skill training. Some players who use ghost researching are able to dump significant amounts of datacore on the market. They not only can earn them a substantial amount of ISK, but also distort the economy for those researchers who pay for a subscription. I think the same reasoning for the move on ghost-training applies here.
|
Trupplupagus
Settling Tank
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 04:09:00 -
[797]
Originally by: Catherine Frasier
Originally by: Trupplupagus It is not a minority opinion that CCP is a bad company
Opinions are like anal sphincters- everybody's got one. So? I like the game and have had no significant complaints about CCP's level of service over the years. YMMV.
Originally by: Trupplupagus and this issue proves they're out to get your money
OMG! A company selling something who is (GASP!) out to get our money?! No way!
Originally by: Trupplupagus even if ghost training doesn't effect you on this issue. The options (and there really are just two) are that you are a bad, suckup sycophant without empathy for your peers, or you are, in fact, related to or employed by the company.
Third option: I understand, respect and support CCP's decision on this matter. Maybe you can only function in simplistic terms of "good company" or "bad company", but I am capable of examining things like this on their own merits. It's a reasonable decision. I understand it. I support it.
As to "empathy for my peers", my peers don't metagame, don't cheat and don't emoragequit over a policy change. Those who do, while they may be my fellow Eve players, are not my peers, and for them I have very, very little sympathy. To be blunt: screw 'em.
You are a bad person~ Good luck on the CSM~~
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Zinnn
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 04:09:00 -
[798]
seriously not one single GM has said anything in this entire thread. Not like it matters. Either they pay attention and keep their customers, or they lose a larger portion and file for bankruptcy.
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Triksterism
Gallente Frozen Corpse Inspection Services United Federation of Capsuleers
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 04:09:00 -
[799]
I would like to compare this to ice cream. Ice cream is delicious, this is not. Fin. ---------------------------------------
Feature. Bug. Hurf durf. |
Haldane Fisher
Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 04:09:00 -
[800]
Originally by: Zinnn chaktil a ban would mean they'd have to be paying attention to this thread....
They'll just wait for it to reach 50 pages then lock it.
|
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Cosy Ceaon
Gallente Aliastra
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 04:09:00 -
[801]
Originally by: Zinnn chaktil a ban would mean they'd have to be paying attention to this thread....
lets slashdot this then
is a bug is a bug a buuuuuuuuuuuuug |
squiddie
Sleeper Technology Industries
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 04:10:00 -
[802]
Edited by: squiddie on 14/10/2008 04:13:53
Quote: Does that mean that CCP is a greedy money chewing monster that just loves nerfing things? Of course not. We're a company like everyone else, we make a game, that we happen to love making and for most of us is the passion of our lives. But it's also a company. We make a product, sell it, get salaries and then continue maintaining the product and making it better.
i respect that but can't believe how hard you try to nerf all the fun out of your beloved game. be it speed or cost you know how to break fun. and fun was what held me here for over two years now and made me starting three accounts which i'm reducing now to the power of two.
now return some fun and i'm really not talking about walking in stations which will get boring very fast. bring me back some fun and perhaps i will reactivate my third acoount which will run out of training in 11h53m but atm i see no reason to do so.
/edit ah yeah. the reason to activate it will be to transfer it to my second acc.
also, great bug mentioned as feature in the player guide. brilliant move.
cheers
Vote against the nano nerf! Don't forget to check the 'support' checkbox when replying. |
wide
55378008
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 04:10:00 -
[803]
Just to further illustrate how bad the dev blog's argument really is:
Quote: Now a single customer that doesn't log into the servers may not weigh heavily on our database infrastructure, just as a single snowflake isn't that heavy, hardly a measurable quantity. But it's hard not to notice an avalanche if it hits you. And that's what was starting to happen in our database.
Lets say a snow flake weighs 0.003 grams; there are 250,000 Eve accounts: 250,000 x 0.000003kg = 0.75kg.
Only the Icelandic elves could call that an avalanche.
|
Delos Harriman
Whiskey Tango Foxtrot
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 04:11:00 -
[804]
Originally by: Catherine Frasier
As to "empathy for my peers", my peers don't metagame, don't cheat and don't emoragequit over a policy change. Those who do, while they may be my fellow Eve players, are not my peers, and for them I have very, very little sympathy. To be blunt: screw 'em.
Well, we've had a documented instance of CCP devs cheating (documented by CCP, no less), so why spend time defending a group that (by your own definition) you don't consider your peers, and you have no sympathy for?
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Annaphera
Minmatar Super Green Industries
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 04:12:00 -
[805]
Originally by: Trupplupagus
Originally by: Catherine Frasier
Originally by: Trupplupagus
Originally by: Catherine Frasier 3)Most people never, ever, ever take advantage of this "wonderful feature". Many of us, in fact, consider it extreme metagaming: cheating, to be blunt.
So you are a CCP employee.
Nope, I just agree with them.
It is not a minority opinion that CCP is a bad company, and this issue proves they're out to get your money, even if ghost training doesn't effect you on this issue. The options (and there really are just two) are that you are a bad, suckup sycophant without empathy for your peers, or you are, in fact, related to or employed by the company.
You are not credible, even if by some disgusting twist of fate you're the real deal. Shoo
Wow. Just...wow. Take off the tinfoil hat, hmm? CCP just closed a loophole that was letting people improve characters without paying for a sub. Yes, it was hurting their bottom line. Yes, they probably realized there would be backlash, and possibly even enough to hurt them some financially. True corporate fat-cats would NEVER risk taking a hit if there was a chance it might hurt more than not fixing the issue. I kind of take that to mean I should assume they are telling the truth about their motives, rather than as a cue to invent a conspiracy and insult people who are trying to voice their opinions.
What makes you so sure that they aren't telling the absolute truth? Can you find ONE thing that makes it look like they counted on ghost training to bring people in? Can you find an instance of it being used in an ad, enticement, sales pitch, or anything other than as a fact in some guide to how the game was working at the time? Can you find any promise that, contrary to disclaimers that game play can change at any time in any way, this was something that was eternally promised to players? I can't, so I guess I still can't understand the outrage that this was done. I CAN understand some anger at how it was done, but I still think that has gotten excessive. Like Catherine, it seems, I'm forced to chalk a lot of this up as people getting ****ed they're losing what amounts to a way to cheat the system.
I can't say I find your rants very credible. Shoo! (See how immature that sounds?)
|
Haldane Fisher
Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 04:14:00 -
[806]
Originally by: Annaphera
Originally by: Trupplupagus
Originally by: Catherine Frasier
Originally by: Trupplupagus
Originally by: Catherine Frasier 3)Most people never, ever, ever take advantage of this "wonderful feature". Many of us, in fact, consider it extreme metagaming: cheating, to be blunt.
So you are a CCP employee.
Nope, I just agree with them.
It is not a minority opinion that CCP is a bad company, and this issue proves they're out to get your money, even if ghost training doesn't effect you on this issue. The options (and there really are just two) are that you are a bad, suckup sycophant without empathy for your peers, or you are, in fact, related to or employed by the company.
You are not credible, even if by some disgusting twist of fate you're the real deal. Shoo
Wow. Just...wow. Take off the tinfoil hat, hmm? CCP just closed a loophole that was letting people improve characters without paying for a sub. Yes, it was hurting their bottom line. Yes, they probably realized there would be backlash, and possibly even enough to hurt them some financially. True corporate fat-cats would NEVER risk taking a hit if there was a chance it might hurt more than not fixing the issue. I kind of take that to mean I should assume they are telling the truth about their motives, rather than as a cue to invent a conspiracy and insult people who are trying to voice their opinions.
What makes you so sure that they aren't telling the absolute truth? Can you find ONE thing that makes it look like they counted on ghost training to bring people in? Can you find an instance of it being used in an ad, enticement, sales pitch, or anything other than as a fact in some guide to how the game was working at the time? Can you find any promise that, contrary to disclaimers that game play can change at any time in any way, this was something that was eternally promised to players? I can't, so I guess I still can't understand the outrage that this was done. I CAN understand some anger at how it was done, but I still think that has gotten excessive. Like Catherine, it seems, I'm forced to chalk a lot of this up as people getting ****ed they're losing what amounts to a way to cheat the system.
I can't say I find your rants very credible. Shoo! (See how immature that sounds?)
Maybe the part were it was listed as feature and not a bug?
|
Katana Seiko
Gallente
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 04:14:00 -
[807]
You know... When you got to think about it... Active playing is about making money in EVE. Training just comes as a gizmo that allows you to fly bigger ships.
Originally by: CCP Fallout This practice upsets the balance of the game, and capsuleers who actively put their time and energy into working on their characters will no longer be unfairly affected by those few who have not.
I claim that this is a lie that CCP holds up to cover their greed. Just like Bush held up his "Terrorists" sign to justify his war in Iraq.
A player that doesn't play the game might be able to fly a bigger ship - but how will he ever be able to afford it if not by playing the game? There's no way a player not actually playing the game will gain any advantage over other players. --- "Multiple exclamation marks are a sure sign for a diseased mind." -Terry Pratchett |
Jita Johnny
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 04:16:00 -
[808]
Originally by: Zinnn seriously not one single GM has said anything in this entire thread. Not like it matters. Either they pay attention and keep their customers, or they lose a larger portion and file for bankruptcy.
This is what CCP always does when they drop a horrible change into the playerbase's lap. Herd up all the complaints into one thread, occasionally come through and delete some of them, and ignore the whole thing.
The claim that database load is a legitimate reason for this change is insultingly stupid. I know that CCP has recruitment issues what with being in Iceland and all, but if their DBAs are that lousy then even I am shocked. |
TU144 TEPPOPNCT'CMEPTHNK
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 04:16:00 -
[809]
typical, CCp nerfs the GTC's, then wonders why theres a run on the GTc's just b4 the nerf. then they wonder why everyone suspends thier accounts, so they spam everyone to try to find out whats going on.... some ppl respond that RL is issue, others that there are game issues...
ZOMG!!! fleet battles problems is fixed... then credit crunch hits, ppl are tooo busy tryin to feed themselves to play games and have left thier accounts dark training in the meantime.
so ccp sees a spike in income, then a drop off, and low usage of GTC's as lots go dark.
ccp thinks...hmmmm we need to pay for exotic fishies for the promo-uber tank (and no ovour doing a charity gig of nivana - smells like teen spirit in the tank Simply wont cut-it) [though im sure we'd all like to see that on the site or at the fanfest.
then the userbase is hammered by fixing a long term game mechanic that was ticking over in the background for 5 years, hmmmm thinks....... Bob must have all thier cap fleet up to titans by now ;p (oops time to nerf the opposition)hehehehe
isnt it time to nerf the titan fleets (more than just a little bit) the game is unplayable against titans if ur in a ickle ship....(of even a BS)
yet again CCP4tW
(we luv u really).......................honest
http://desusig.crumplecorn.com/sigs.html |
Haldane Fisher
Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 04:18:00 -
[810]
Originally by: TU144 TEPPOPNCT'CMEPTHNK typical, CCp nerfs the GTC's, then wonders why theres a run on the GTc's just b4 the nerf. then they wonder why everyone suspends thier accounts, so they spam everyone to try to find out whats going on.... some ppl respond that RL is issue, others that there are game issues...
ZOMG!!! fleet battles problems is fixed... then credit crunch hits, ppl are tooo busy tryin to feed themselves to play games and have left thier accounts dark training in the meantime.
so ccp sees a spike in income, then a drop off, and low usage of GTC's as lots go dark.
ccp thinks...hmmmm we need to pay for exotic fishies for the promo-uber tank (and no ovour doing a charity gig of nivana - smells like teen spirit in the tank Simply wont cut-it) [though im sure we'd all like to see that on the site or at the fanfest.
then the userbase is hammered by fixing a long term game mechanic that was ticking over in the background for 5 years, hmmmm thinks....... Bob must have all thier cap fleet up to titans by now ;p (oops time to nerf the opposition)hehehehe
isnt it time to nerf the titan fleets (more than just a little bit) the game is unplayable against titans if ur in a ickle ship....(of even a BS)
yet again CCP4tW
(we luv u really).......................honest
You could always KIA fit your battleships....
"Skills continue training even if you are logged off or if your account is inactive (in the second scenario you can't change skill training, though)." |
|
Catherine Frasier
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 04:19:00 -
[811]
Originally by: Delos Harriman
Originally by: Catherine Frasier As to "empathy for my peers", my peers don't metagame, don't cheat and don't emoragequit over a policy change. Those who do, while they may be my fellow Eve players, are not my peers, and for them I have very, very little sympathy. To be blunt: screw 'em.
Well, we've had a documented instance of CCP devs cheating (documented by CCP, no less), so why spend time defending a group that (by your own definition) you don't consider your peers, and you have no sympathy for?
That was vile, reprehensible, and has long since been addressed. It's over. That means we get to stop whining about it now. Cool eh? If you don't think it was handled well enough then what exactly are you still doing here?
This decision has nothing to do with that incident. Even if you have a video of some Dev tossing puppies into a woodchipper it doesn't change a single thing about this particular decision.
|
Jei'son Bladesmith
The Storm Knights The Cool Kids Club
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 04:19:00 -
[812]
I benefitted from ghost training quite a bit and certainly am not happy to see it go, but technically it was just a bug, its not like it was a game feature they're removing. I'm glad I got as much benefit from it as i did.
To all the whiners.... its a f'n game. adapt, die, or gb2wow
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Annaphera
Minmatar Super Green Industries
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 04:19:00 -
[813]
Originally by: Katana Seiko You know... When you got to think about it... Active playing is about making money in EVE. Training just comes as a gizmo that allows you to fly bigger ships.
Originally by: CCP Fallout This practice upsets the balance of the game, and capsuleers who actively put their time and energy into working on their characters will no longer be unfairly affected by those few who have not.
I claim that this is a lie that CCP holds up to cover their greed. Just like Bush held up his "Terrorists" sign to justify his war in Iraq.
A player that doesn't play the game might be able to fly a bigger ship - but how will he ever be able to afford it if not by playing the game? There's no way a player not actually playing the game will gain any advantage over other players.
By buying isk from outside farmers, perhaps? See, it is possible, and unfair to those who actually pay that some shmoe is getting ahead and not even paying CCP, so they can improve the game (or at least keep it running...I'm not sure I agree with some of the 'balancing' they've done).
|
Haldane Fisher
Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 04:19:00 -
[814]
Originally by: Catherine Frasier
Originally by: Delos Harriman
Originally by: Catherine Frasier As to "empathy for my peers", my peers don't metagame, don't cheat and don't emoragequit over a policy change. Those who do, while they may be my fellow Eve players, are not my peers, and for them I have very, very little sympathy. To be blunt: screw 'em.
Well, we've had a documented instance of CCP devs cheating (documented by CCP, no less), so why spend time defending a group that (by your own definition) you don't consider your peers, and you have no sympathy for?
That was vile, reprehensible, and has long since been addressed. It's over. That means we get to stop whining about it now. Cool eh? If you don't think it was handled well enough then what exactly are you still doing here?
This decision has nothing to do with that incident. Even if you have a video of some Dev tossing puppies into a woodchipper it doesn't change a single thing about this particular decision.
Isn't it possible to love a game but despise the people running it?
"Skills continue training even if you are logged off or if your account is inactive (in the second scenario you can't change skill training, though)." |
PsychoBones II
R.E.C.O.N. The Firm.
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 04:20:00 -
[815]
Originally by: TU144 TEPPOPNCT'CMEPTHNK typical, CCp nerfs the GTC's, then wonders why theres a run on the GTc's just b4 the nerf. then they wonder why everyone suspends thier accounts, so they spam everyone to try to find out whats going on.... some ppl respond that RL is issue, others that there are game issues...
ZOMG!!! fleet battles problems is fixed... then credit crunch hits, ppl are tooo busy tryin to feed themselves to play games and have left thier accounts dark training in the meantime.
so ccp sees a spike in income, then a drop off, and low usage of GTC's as lots go dark.
ccp thinks...hmmmm we need to pay for exotic fishies for the promo-uber tank (and no ovour doing a charity gig of nivana - smells like teen spirit in the tank Simply wont cut-it) [though im sure we'd all like to see that on the site or at the fanfest.
then the userbase is hammered by fixing a long term game mechanic that was ticking over in the background for 5 years, hmmmm thinks....... Bob must have all thier cap fleet up to titans by now ;p (oops time to nerf the opposition)hehehehe
isnt it time to nerf the titan fleets (more than just a little bit) the game is unplayable against titans if ur in a ickle ship....(of even a BS)
yet again CCP4tW
(we luv u really).......................honest
what the **** is that?
Quit banning me. |
Delos Harriman
Whiskey Tango Foxtrot
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 04:20:00 -
[816]
Y'know, I really don't have much of an opinion about "ghost training"...I've done it, and probably would have in the future, but only when I was stopping my sub for another reason.
Having said that, the change itself isn't the problem here...at least, in my opinion. As has been stated quite a few times before this, it's the way it was delivered to us.
If you want your staff to have a PvP mentality to operate your PvP-centric game...good decision. But you'd better have someone at the helm of community relations that doesn't think in terms of "us vs. them"...that attitude leads to PR disaster after PR disaster.
What I find interesting is this...CCP can find a doctor of economics to "consult" on the in-game economy, but apparently can't find a public relations professional to handle this kind of thing?
Really?
One of the first things you learn in PvP training is "no smack talk in local," and while neither of the official statements from CCP rise to the level of smack talk...well, they're closer to that than to a statement to your community regarding what you know will be a controversial change.
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Annaphera
Minmatar Super Green Industries
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 04:20:00 -
[817]
Originally by: Haldane Fisher Maybe the part were it was listed as feature and not a bug?
The player's guide just said that was what the game did. Where, exactly, was is listed as a feature?
|
KeratinBoy
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 04:20:00 -
[818]
Originally by: Annaphera Wow. Just...wow. Take off the tinfoil hat, hmm? CCP just closed a loophole that was letting people improve characters without paying for a sub. Yes, it was hurting their bottom line. Yes, they probably realized there would be backlash, and possibly even enough to hurt them some financially. True corporate fat-cats would NEVER risk taking a hit if there was a chance it might hurt more than not fixing the issue. I kind of take that to mean I should assume they are telling the truth about their motives, rather than as a cue to invent a conspiracy and insult people who are trying to voice their opinions.
What makes you so sure that they aren't telling the absolute truth? Can you find ONE thing that makes it look like they counted on ghost training to bring people in? Can you find an instance of it being used in an ad, enticement, sales pitch, or anything other than as a fact in some guide to how the game was working at the time? Can you find any promise that, contrary to disclaimers that game play can change at any time in any way, this was something that was eternally promised to players? I can't, so I guess I still can't understand the outrage that this was done. I CAN understand some anger at how it was done, but I still think that has gotten excessive. Like Catherine, it seems, I'm forced to chalk a lot of this up as people getting ****ed they're losing what amounts to a way to cheat the system.
I can't say I find your rants very credible. Shoo! (See how immature that sounds?)
Yet this only affects skill training. Why doesn't it affect market orders or research points or contracts or production or anything else a character can do while not actively subscribed?
The reasons given are tosh, the timing of the announcement right before the execution reeks of indifference to paying customers and all of this is, in effect, to get more money from us.
Why don't they just admit they need money or are fed up of the game and want to close it? These are the only two reasons I can see for such actions.
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Exxonett
Caldari Invicta.
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Posted - 2008.10.14 04:20:00 -
[819]
Yea you are money grubbing thieves. I have had up to 8 accounts feeding you cash and as the economy died so did my spending cash so I have already had to thin it out. You say this is unfair to people who work their chars? I still use and grind all of my accounts and to save money I let them expire to finish skills to save a few of my bucks. You rotten ingrates guarantee that all people with active accounts don't just log on to train and never undock I will say ok. until then Keep looking for more reasons to charge more and come up with flimsy reasons that are ******ed at best. I have 3 active accounts active at all times and you want more? You are finding new and improved ways to rip people off and jacked up time periods for gtcs. There is no question you are after the money nothing more.
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=896464 http://www.midnightsquadron.com/msbb/uploads/post-23-1152919992_thumb.jpg Sig Linked. Please resize your sig to within the 400*120 Pixel size limit, and enjoy some egg nog while you're at it. -ReverendM ([email protected]) |
Triksterism
Gallente Frozen Corpse Inspection Services United Federation of Capsuleers
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 04:20:00 -
[820]
Originally by: Cosy Ceaon
Originally by: Zinnn chaktil a ban would mean they'd have to be paying attention to this thread....
lets slashdot this then
And slashdot we shall good sir.
Has CCP even thought of the backlash prior to letting this out? I mean wont all this 'rabble rabble' turn new players away? Hrm. -
Ghost Train & Snowflake |
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Haldane Fisher
Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2008.10.14 04:21:00 -
[821]
Originally by: Annaphera
Originally by: Haldane Fisher Maybe the part were it was listed as feature and not a bug?
The player's guide just said that was what the game did. Where, exactly, was is listed as a feature?
Did it say "theres a part of the game that allows you to train skills while unsubscribed, this is actually a bug and even if it takes us 5 years we will sort it out"???
No I think not.
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VladSnake
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Posted - 2008.10.14 04:21:00 -
[822]
I got a little 2 cents of my own
3 characters per account, but only 1 effectively used character.
If you're really gonna f**k us around, how about at least making each of the 3 characters, be able to train THEIR OWN SKILLS.
1 skill trained PER character, no matter what the other one is training.
Effectively, you train 1 character at a time, thus, if people want more, they are forced to buy a second account, and train up on there. If you're really removing ghost-training, then add the option for other characters to train up the skills (that take ages to) while being able to focus on another character, and have him act as a completely separate being, rather then having 1 brain for 3 different chars.
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Zinnn
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Posted - 2008.10.14 04:21:00 -
[823]
you can't claim it's a way to cheat the system if everyone can do it.
All it comes down to is people who "loyally pay" are upset that they didn't do it too and so they tell others to quit *****ing. Now let me remind you guys that I've only "taken advantage" of this for like maybe a couple days. I don't think I"m considered even a light user of this system really, and yet I am defending this FEATURE.
You could try to call it an exploit but it makes no sense that it's an exploit if CCP has let people exploit it for years. You can't say it's due to CCP's loving kindness - they don't have any, they are a business, plain and simple. The only thing they understand is cold hard cash. They will learn, and I think that's why no GM's have said anything yet - I think they are wondering what to do now. I will be ****ed if this change goes through, because it's disabling my future options.
Pocketbook be damned, they will lose more subscriptions this way than keeping it, I guarantee it.
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INF Wonderwoman
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Posted - 2008.10.14 04:21:00 -
[824]
Originally by: Triksterism I would like to compare this to ice cream. Ice cream is delicious, this is not. Fin.
Props for the MST3K sig!!!
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Gerome Doutrande
Rue Morgue
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Posted - 2008.10.14 04:22:00 -
[825]
See, that wasn't so hard now was it? Instead of serving the cheapest lies possible like CCP Fallout did, just deny the proper reason, hint at some imaginary technical problems and pretend to be "a gamer just like you". That sounds much more professional already.
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Delos Harriman
Whiskey Tango Foxtrot
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Posted - 2008.10.14 04:23:00 -
[826]
Originally by: Catherine Frasier
Originally by: Delos Harriman
Originally by: Catherine Frasier As to "empathy for my peers", my peers don't metagame, don't cheat and don't emoragequit over a policy change. Those who do, while they may be my fellow Eve players, are not my peers, and for them I have very, very little sympathy. To be blunt: screw 'em.
Well, we've had a documented instance of CCP devs cheating (documented by CCP, no less), so why spend time defending a group that (by your own definition) you don't consider your peers, and you have no sympathy for?
That was vile, reprehensible, and has long since been addressed. It's over. That means we get to stop whining about it now. Cool eh? If you don't think it was handled well enough then what exactly are you still doing here?
This decision has nothing to do with that incident. Even if you have a video of some Dev tossing puppies into a woodchipper it doesn't change a single thing about this particular decision.
Other than the fact that, by your own definition, you have no sympathy for EvE devs, and do not consider them your "peers".
Or was your statement only directed at the people currently upset, and you don't consider any past transgressions of your personal "peer choosing code" to be valid?
Don't paint with a broad brush while wearing your good clothes...sometimes it doesn't wash out.
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P'uck
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Posted - 2008.10.14 04:24:00 -
[827]
Dear players, do you all really think we are so stupid that we trust in that move earning us more money than it will cost us?
See? ^ That would have been proper damage control
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noc D
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Posted - 2008.10.14 04:25:00 -
[828]
...
no need to telling huge LIE ccp. respect to new rules... but no lies pls.
this decision gonna push illegal activities like character selling for real money and using macros.
...
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Triksterism
Gallente Frozen Corpse Inspection Services United Federation of Capsuleers
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Posted - 2008.10.14 04:26:00 -
[829]
Originally by: noc D ...
no need to telling huge LIE ccp. respect to new rules... but no lies pls.
this decision gonna push illegal activities like character selling for real money and using macros.
...
Yeah, I thought about that myself. People bailing and, since they wont be playing EvE anymore, won't care about ISK, so they'll dump their crafted characters onto eBay and the like. ---------------------------------------
Feature. Bug. Hurf durf. |
Catherine Frasier
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Posted - 2008.10.14 04:26:00 -
[830]
Originally by: Haldane Fisher Maybe the part were it was listed as feature and not a bug?
That was merely descriptive and certainly doesn't mean it was an intended mechanic. Did you really expect that the guide would say "Oh yeah, and we screwed up the skill training stuff with inactive accounts, please pretend we didn't." ?
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SkwisgaarSkwigelf
C.R.M Productions
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Posted - 2008.10.14 04:26:00 -
[831]
Originally by: INF Wonderwoman
Originally by: Triksterism I would like to compare this to ice cream. Ice cream is delicious, this is not. Fin.
Props for the MST3K sig!!!
indeed
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Mortis Aguila
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.10.14 04:26:00 -
[832]
Edited by: Mortis Aguila on 14/10/2008 04:31:18
Originally by: Suga H "maintaining a large number of customers that weren't paying us regular subscriptions."
Except that they had to pay if they wanted to use the character at any point in the future. Meaning people could take breaks and not be screwed out of time or money.
"There was a way to progress a character in EVE without an active subscription"
Ghosting Gal BS V didn't get me anything. I didn't advance any further in the game. Training the skill didn't buy me any capital ship skills. It didn't buy me a Kronos. It didn't earn me anything, it simply saved me time, and money, and allowed me to afford to be active on a second account. When I resubbed with the first account, I didn't log on with anything new, other than the ability to train another skill (however without the ability to afford it, having not been active on that account).
"Players now have to pay a subscription for characters to have them progress"
They had to anyway. Now they have to pay to allow time to pass.
This, exactly. Also, I would assume that a skill queue could be disabled for expired accounts, to prevent abuse. Fine, it's a bug. But, as has been said in other posts, it was used as a selling point for 5 years. Why change now? ------------------------------------------- REALITY.DAT not found. Rebooting the universe. |
Haldane Fisher
Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2008.10.14 04:27:00 -
[833]
Originally by: Catherine Frasier
Originally by: Haldane Fisher Maybe the part were it was listed as feature and not a bug?
That was merely descriptive and certainly doesn't mean it was an intended mechanic. Did you really expect that the guide would say "Oh yeah, and we screwed up the skill training stuff with inactive accounts, please pretend we didn't." ?
That's pretty weak, even for a sycophant
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Tizoca
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 04:27:00 -
[834]
Originally by: Delos Harriman Y'know, I really don't have much of an opinion about "ghost training"...I've done it, and probably would have in the future, but only when I was stopping my sub for another reason.
Having said that, the change itself isn't the problem here...at least, in my opinion. As has been stated quite a few times before this, it's the way it was delivered to us.
If you want your staff to have a PvP mentality to operate your PvP-centric game...good decision. But you'd better have someone at the helm of community relations that doesn't think in terms of "us vs. them"...that attitude leads to PR disaster after PR disaster.
What I find interesting is this...CCP can find a doctor of economics to "consult" on the in-game economy, but apparently can't find a public relations professional to handle this kind of thing?
Really?
One of the first things you learn in PvP training is "no smack talk in local," and while neither of the official statements from CCP rise to the level of smack talk...well, they're closer to that than to a statement to your community regarding what you know will be a controversial change.
Quoted for truth. This is the only reason for some of the outrage I'm seeing that I can understand. While I don't buy that CCP lied, especially not in the Dev Blog, I think it was pretty bad to toss out that lame forum announcement with it's terse half-truth excuse first, then only post the full reasoning later. They were begging for an uproar doing it that way. I just can't see why it's turning into tinfoil hattery and emorage.
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Erimisha
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.10.14 04:28:00 -
[835]
Originally by: Annaphera
Originally by: Haldane Fisher Maybe the part were it was listed as feature and not a bug?
The player's guide just said that was what the game did. Where, exactly, was is listed as a feature?
OMG. This is singlehandedly the DUMBEST thing I've read today on the topic. What, pray tell, do you think a FEATURE is? Would a 'list of features' not be a "list of things that the game did"?
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Triksterism
Gallente Frozen Corpse Inspection Services United Federation of Capsuleers
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Posted - 2008.10.14 04:29:00 -
[836]
Originally by: Catherine Frasier
Originally by: Haldane Fisher Maybe the part were it was listed as feature and not a bug?
That was merely descriptive and certainly doesn't mean it was an intended mechanic. Did you really expect that the guide would say "Oh yeah, and we screwed up the skill training stuff with inactive accounts, please pretend we didn't." ?
Okay, so, say it wasn't intended, which I believe it wasn't. Still, they ran with it and used it to suck in a lot of subscribers. Then, oh! All of the sudden we're going to take it away. Sorry folks! Gee whiz I hope this wasn't an inconvenience or nuttin' ! Shee yoot! ---------------------------------------
Feature. Bug. Hurf durf. |
Catherine Frasier
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Posted - 2008.10.14 04:29:00 -
[837]
Originally by: Delos Harriman Other than the fact that, by your own definition, you have no sympathy for EvE devs, and do not consider them your "peers".
No I don't consider the Devs my peers in the context of Eve, mostly because they aren't. I never said otherwise. Try to keep up with the conversation.
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Chryosparce
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Posted - 2008.10.14 04:29:00 -
[838]
Pathetic.
You can't use something as a selling point and then claim its been a bug all along and still expect to maintain any credibility.
I'm not bothered so much by the removal of ghost training (though it does suck) as I am by CCPs obvious lies. |
Catherine Frasier
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Posted - 2008.10.14 04:30:00 -
[839]
Originally by: Haldane Fisher
Originally by: Catherine Frasier
Originally by: Haldane Fisher Maybe the part were it was listed as feature and not a bug?
That was merely descriptive and certainly doesn't mean it was an intended mechanic. Did you really expect that the guide would say "Oh yeah, and we screwed up the skill training stuff with inactive accounts, please pretend we didn't." ?
That's pretty weak, even for a sycophant
Right, like just calling me names is such a powerful argument.
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Haldane Fisher
Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2008.10.14 04:31:00 -
[840]
Originally by: Catherine Frasier
Originally by: Haldane Fisher
Originally by: Catherine Frasier
Originally by: Haldane Fisher Maybe the part were it was listed as feature and not a bug?
That was merely descriptive and certainly doesn't mean it was an intended mechanic. Did you really expect that the guide would say "Oh yeah, and we screwed up the skill training stuff with inactive accounts, please pretend we didn't." ?
That's pretty weak, even for a sycophant
Right, like just calling me names is such a powerful argument.
If you take it as a personal insult then please do so. I can only judge you by your own words and the "insult" I used is the best way to describe someone who speaks this way.
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Triksterism
Gallente Frozen Corpse Inspection Services United Federation of Capsuleers
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Posted - 2008.10.14 04:32:00 -
[841]
Originally by: Chryosparce Pathetic.
You can't use something as a selling point and then claim its been a bug all along and still expect to maintain any credibility.
I'm not bothered so much by the removal of ghost training (though it does suck) as I am by CCPs obvious lies.
Truthy McThruthenstein.
Agree 100%. This is my main gripe about what is going on. I only ghost trained once, maybe twice so it really isn't going to effect me too much. Though it was nice to know it was there, incase I wanted to stroll away from EvE for a bit.
Hell, I did the unthinkable. I set Minmatar Cruiser to train to 5 and I went and played a trial of WoW with some buddies. A great break (though WoW loses its charm very very quickly). I had something to come back to (Hooray Rapier and Sleipnir) ---------------------------------------
Feature. Bug. Hurf durf. |
Delos Harriman
Whiskey Tango Foxtrot
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 04:33:00 -
[842]
Originally by: Triksterism Hell, I did the unthinkable. I set Minmatar Cruiser to train to 5 and I went and played a trial of WoW with some buddies. A great break (though WoW loses its charm very very quickly). I had something to come back to (Hooray Rapier and Sleipnir)
You bastard...so this is all your fault!
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Ava Baby
Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2008.10.14 04:33:00 -
[843]
Edited by: Ava Baby on 14/10/2008 04:33:43 Like many people, I have more than one account. Yes I've used "ghost training" for a number of reasons. However, I do not relay on it.
1) I just don't have the money to re-up an account so I set a long skill until I do.
2) I'll be gone for extended periods of time. (ie travel)
3) See #1
It is a nice feature to have and I'm sad to see it go after so long.
But on page 27* does it really matter?
Originally by: Asestorian I support this message. Whatever it is.
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Markus Chen
Caldari Super Friends Club Worlds End Consortium
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Posted - 2008.10.14 04:34:00 -
[844]
I decided not to read the other posts, I know mostly what they say. I don't know what has gotten into your money-greedy heads but all of this (taking away 30 day GTCs for isk and now this) stinks of a failing game. I should mention I only have one account so I truly do believe this reeks of failure and I'd rather leave now than spending anymore $$ on it. I don't believe for a SECOND that a feature you have provided for 5 years is a glitch, or an insurmountable problem. It seems most likely you are drooling over the prospect of a new MMO and pushing us to the wayside... from a customer service vantage point it would certainly seem that way. I guess have fun with your world of darkness game :|
Subscription canceled.
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Haldane Fisher
Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2008.10.14 04:36:00 -
[845]
Originally by: Ava Baby Edited by: Ava Baby on 14/10/2008 04:33:43 Like many people, I have more than one account. Yes I've used "ghost training" for a number of reasons. However, I do not relay on it.
1) I just don't have the money to re-up an account so I set a long skill until I do.
2) I'll be gone for extended periods of time. (ie travel)
3) See #1
It is a nice feature to have and I'm sad to see it go after so long.
But on page 27* does it really matter?
Not really I'm afraid.
The only way to really get something done about this is the do a mass unsubscribe. I very much doubt it would actually happen, but it ought to work. If people could convince their corps/alliances to take a break for a month...
"Skills continue training even if you are logged off or if your account is inactive (in the second scenario you can't change skill training, though)." |
StealthGerbils
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Posted - 2008.10.14 04:37:00 -
[846]
CCP NO ONE WILL MIND AT ALL IF YOU DECIDE TO KEEP GHOST TRAINING
Remember that!
Really, if you guys made an update that you changed your mind, there would be a huge party!
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Triksterism
Gallente Frozen Corpse Inspection Services United Federation of Capsuleers
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Posted - 2008.10.14 04:37:00 -
[847]
Originally by: Haldane Fisher
Originally by: Ava Baby Edited by: Ava Baby on 14/10/2008 04:33:43 Like many people, I have more than one account. Yes I've used "ghost training" for a number of reasons. However, I do not relay on it.
1) I just don't have the money to re-up an account so I set a long skill until I do.
2) I'll be gone for extended periods of time. (ie travel)
3) See #1
It is a nice feature to have and I'm sad to see it go after so long.
But on page 27* does it really matter?
Not really I'm afraid.
The only way to really get something done about this is the do a mass unsubscribe. I very much doubt it would actually happen, but it ought to work. If people could convince their corps/alliances to take a break for a month...
True, but like you said, good luck getting that in motion. -
Ghost Train & Snowflake |
Zabaticus
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 04:38:00 -
[848]
It's a very simple and beautiful concept; No pay, no play, then no training. Let's hope they kill the other "Ghosts" with malice.
Zabaticus
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Haldane Fisher
Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2008.10.14 04:39:00 -
[849]
Originally by: Zabaticus It's a very simple and beautiful concept; No pay, no play, then no training. Let's hope they kill the other "Ghosts" with malice.
Zabaticus
Sounds like someone doesn't understand real-time xp gain.
"Skills continue training even if you are logged off or if your account is inactive (in the second scenario you can't change skill training, though)." |
Tizoca
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 04:39:00 -
[850]
Originally by: Erimisha
Originally by: Annaphera
Originally by: Haldane Fisher Maybe the part were it was listed as feature and not a bug?
The player's guide just said that was what the game did. Where, exactly, was is listed as a feature?
OMG. This is singlehandedly the DUMBEST thing I've read today on the topic. What, pray tell, do you think a FEATURE is? Would a 'list of features' not be a "list of things that the game did"?
*snort* My copy of Windows XP occasionally commits an error and tosses up a "blue screen of death", wiping out everything I was working on. The manual mentions the blue screen, and the fact that unsaved work will be lost. Does that make losing your work a "feature", as it is on the list of things the software does? Internet Explorer has loopholes that allow unscrupulous people to hijack my computer; several help files mention this. Are the security loopholes a "feature"? Can you come up with a criticism that doesn't depend on being literal to the point of idiocy?
Further, the exact phrase people were tossing around was "advertised as a feature". Does just being buried in the online players guide make something "advertised"?
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Morena Maganda
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Posted - 2008.10.14 04:40:00 -
[851]
Edited by: Morena Maganda on 14/10/2008 04:44:26
Originally by: Markus Chen It seems most likely you are drooling over the prospect of a new MMO and pushing us to the wayside... from a customer service vantage point it would certainly seem that way. I guess have fun with your world of darkness game :|
Crap...that's exactly what EA games did to the players of Earth and Beyond.
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Zinnn
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Posted - 2008.10.14 04:40:00 -
[852]
mass unsubscribe means most people who do it honestly and truthfully won't come back.... I know I wouldn't. Hell, if I don't want to come back, I'd sell all my posessions and sell the character on ebay - who cares right? I mean really, if you don't play, why play by the rules? ... Welcome to the wide world of isk and character bonanza! lol... Seriously the forum died down but it'll pick up again soon enough anyway... The forum lock at 49 pages for the other thread shows clearly that this is just a spillover thread, making it harder for people to find this thread and discuss it... it's just another tactic for damage control.. Anyway, if you guys want, pay attention to this site again, and support it. Maybe it will help others.
http://digg.com/pc_games/EvE_Online_is_all_about_money
It may not be true, but negative publicity hurts the most.
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Liranan
M'8'S Frontal Impact
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Posted - 2008.10.14 04:40:00 -
[853]
Originally by: Catherine Frasier
That's pretty weak, even for a sycophant
Right, like just calling me names is such a powerful argument.
You are an idiotic fanboi. Shut up until you're ready to reveal who you actually are. I don't care whether you're in my corp, alliance, the GBC or whether you're a Goon, in MM, RZR or are a CCP employee. When you can stop being childish and hiding behind some year old NPC character come back and post. Farjung is my God
You people need to open your eyes and read threads before you mindlessly spam the New Thread link. |
Exxonett
Caldari Invicta.
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 04:40:00 -
[854]
I have the solution!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
As per the laws and regulations of the u.s. any and all false advertisements are subject to fines imprisonment and or lawsuit. You come after my wallet I come after yours. This is not a threat it is a promise. A foreign country based corporation selling their product in this country does fall under this topic. http://www.midnightsquadron.com/msbb/uploads/post-23-1152919992_thumb.jpg Sig Linked. Please resize your sig to within the 400*120 Pixel size limit, and enjoy some egg nog while you're at it. -ReverendM ([email protected]) |
Liranan
M'8'S Frontal Impact
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 04:42:00 -
[855]
Originally by: Morena Maganda
Crap...that's exactly what EA games did to the players of Earth Above and Beyond.
And what happened to Earth Above and Beyond? Farjung is my God
You people need to open your eyes and read threads before you mindlessly spam the New Thread link. |
Mad Ilya
Erasers inc.
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Posted - 2008.10.14 04:42:00 -
[856]
So you blow GTC prices through the roof and wonder why some extra accounts are being held off for a while. Then react with this bs.
I had more accounts than were active at any given moment but it gave me variety to the game and allowed me to create more specialized characters as I didn't need to "pay and wait" those long battleship skills. After inactive period, having finished the skill, my chars were always active. I won't be bothering anymore. I'll never train, say, Carrier 5 to any character I'll have with this. It saves me money, thanks i guess!
Yet another never heard of dev? That seems to be the trend, bring new guys to renew everything in this game. Rather bring the old ones back in charge.
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Erimisha
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.10.14 04:42:00 -
[857]
Originally by: Haldane Fisher
The only way to really get something done about this is the do a mass unsubscribe. I very much doubt it would actually happen, but it ought to work. If people could convince their corps/alliances to take a break for a month...
It is very easy to do. You still get to play until your sub runs out. However, CCP doesn't really *KNOW* if you're going to come back and resub after your account expires. I've seen mass unsubscribes work out very well in other MMOs once people understood that you aren't locked out of the MMO the very second you hit [Unsubscribe] on your account page.
I had 1 account in limbo already and already cancelled my 2 active accounts. *IF* CCP makes changes I can live with then I will simply resub when the 2 accounts expire. However CCP handles this fiasco will have to coincide with CCP bringing back 30 and 90 day GTCs to help keep 60d GTCs in check. If they (somehow) handle the whole "Ghost Training" herring better in the next day or so but not reinstate different GTCs then I'll have to think long and hard about moving all my 'main' character to 1 account. CCP will lose either way. How much they lose is up to them.
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Alexander Ronay
Crushed Ambitions
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Posted - 2008.10.14 04:42:00 -
[858]
This is utterly ridiculous. First of all, as well worded as the dev blog was, it was total bull****. Quote: There's no surprise that people have done this for the simple fact that it wasn't banned per se and also for the fact that it was possible.
Wasn't banned per se?!?! It was lauded as one of the unique features of the game!
From your own official players guide:
Quote: Skills continue training even if you are logged off or if your account is inactive (in the second scenario you can't change skill training, though). As a result, it is a good idea to train short skills while you are playing and longer ones when you log off.
Now you're going to try to pass it off as a bug?!
Don't you DARE try to tell us what is and isn't unfair to other players after spouting utter trash like that.
I took a fairly long hiatus from the game (at least it was to me) And knowing that when I came back, I would have a nice long skill out of the way encouraged me to come back. Without that extra incentive, I may not have come back at all.
And you want to talk about FAIR? What about other players, like me, who took a long vacation from the game? They reactivate their account, only to find that CCP has misled them, and screwed them over. What about people who opened a second account? Times got a little rough, so they unsubscribe one of the accounts, and let it train until they can afford to resubscribe. Then when they decide to reactivate the second account, oh hey, CCP decided to enforce its definition of "fair" on everyone else.
Quote: Does that mean that CCP is a greedy money chewing monster that just loves nerfing things? Of course not.
I beg to differ.
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Loki Faulk
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Posted - 2008.10.14 04:44:00 -
[859]
CCP: "Its just a bug guys, honest."
This has been shown by several people before, but just to show the refutation, again:
http://www.eve-online.com/guide/en/g615.asp
From the "How to Train Skills" section, third paragraph from the bottom:
Skills continue training even if you are logged off or if your account is inactive (in the second scenario you can't change skill training, though). As a result, it is a good idea to train short skills while you are playing and longer ones when you log off. If you want to switch skills, you can simply do so by starting another skill training. The points gained on the previous skill will not be lost, but you don't benefit from the training until the level is fully completed. The highest level for any skill is Level 5, but some skills also have an advanced version. Some of those advanced skills influence the same area as the basic version, others only a related area.
So, what we have is a SELLING POINT of the game, and THEN we have an explanation of how to make use of this FEATURE. In the PLAYERS MANUAL, written by you.
WTF?
1) Bring back 30 and 90 day timecards and make them the same price as the cash/cc subscriptions of the same time allotments.
2) Leave out the speed nerf.
3) Leave the unsubbed skill training FEATURE as it is.
4) Stop changing the game in stupid stupid ways that **** off the player base. Stop letting the accountants decide what is good for the game. Spend your development money on making the game better, get your sales people and accountants AWAY from development and back to doing what they know how to do.
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Exxonett
Caldari Invicta.
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 04:45:00 -
[860]
I have the solution!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
As per the laws and regulations of the u.s. any and all false advertisements are subject to fines imprisonment and or lawsuit. You come after my wallet I come after yours. This is not a threat it is a promise. A foreign country based corporation selling their product in this country does fall under this topic.
so good it was worth the double post. http://www.midnightsquadron.com/msbb/uploads/post-23-1152919992_thumb.jpg Sig Linked. Please resize your sig to within the 400*120 Pixel size limit, and enjoy some egg nog while you're at it. -ReverendM ([email protected]) |
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INF Wonderwoman
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 04:45:00 -
[861]
Edited by: INF Wonderwoman on 14/10/2008 04:46:39
Originally by: Zabaticus It's a very simple and beautiful concept; No pay, no play, then no training. Let's hope they kill the other "Ghosts" with malice.
Zabaticus
I wonder how long people who are against this have been playing. I'm sorry but if you have only been playing for a year or less you have no idea. When you hit 3 to 4 years and get to the FEW very long skills (carrier 5, capitol 5, ....) you would have loved being able to take advantage of this. To pay 30 USD just to get carrier 5.... its stupid.
PS. Yes this is an alt, because my main is "Ghost Training" carrier 5 right now, lucky for me I only have 9 days left. Had I not gotten this skill I would not be coming back.
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Oftherocks
Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 04:46:00 -
[862]
I honestly feel sorry for the development team, because this decision clearly shows the finance department is making game design decisions, and that can only lead to a poorly designed game. A sad day
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SkwisgaarSkwigelf
C.R.M Productions
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 04:46:00 -
[863]
Originally by: Alexander Ronay
I took a fairly long hiatus from the game (at least it was to me) And knowing that when I came back, I would have a nice long skill out of the way encouraged me to come back. Without that extra incentive, I may not have come back at all.
this
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EvilSyKOSkitzo
Durus Scelus
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Posted - 2008.10.14 04:47:00 -
[864]
WTF,
I seriously wonder if you #$%^%^& numpties have thought this through.
Ok, fine, people are training skills on inactive accounts. Have you considered that they have to resubscribe somehow to change those skills? Making you money in the process? Whether its by GTC, VISA or whatever?
How many resources do inactive accounts really take? If you don't want to do real time checking of skills or whatever.
Couldn't you have implemented a new "feature/bug" where:
Upon reactivation of an account. The system checks to see how long the accounts been inactive. If it has been inactive long enough. The system finishes the skill. There by making you money and keeping a person happy!
I personally have 3 accounts (4 originally). I have been running those accounts non stop for the last 5 years or more. Recently I have moved and I' am still settling in. Since I don't have the time to manage my skills and because you #$%^#$% don't believe in a queue system. I was going to set a long skill training until I could play again.
Fk that!
Seriously, I haven't been impressed with you guys for months. Nerf after nerf, stupid decision after $#@%^%^ stupid decision and now lying about a "bug" thats been around for how long?
Once upon a time, you guys actually thought outside the square but now your just another "company" that needs to make a "profit".
Originally by: FalconBayerskt "We truly hope that the community will understand our actions and continue to enjoy playing EVE as much as we enjoy making it."
Yeah good one. We understand enough to know how full of bs that dev blog was.
- Evil
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Joskken Inx
PURE Legion Pure.
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Posted - 2008.10.14 04:48:00 -
[865]
I just purchased a Power of Two. More like a Power of One now. It's been said, and again I'm going to say it. You have, not had, but have this listed in several places as a feature. A part of the game. It takes money to make an account, it takes money to use the account. You drop this less than two days before it goes into effect, with some whitewash about it being a bug. No, it is not. It's one shining thing that keeps anyone coming back to Eve when real life calls. And you don't find yourself behind (you certainly don't find yourself ahead) and, using this feature, you can stay on par with your peers-at least in a pure skill point sense. Nothing is said about market orders from said "ghost" accounts. Research points, buy orders, sell orders, nothing. You have a broken game that cannot play fleet wars the way they sadly have to be these days. Titans are used the way motherships were several months ago, which only means in the coming months more and more and more will be on the same playfield. Which means bring a blob. Which means lag. Which means crashes. I had hoped that, my own alliance failure aside, a break from Eve would help me find what is good about Eve and I could come back in time and do my best to pick up where I left off. You guys never did the "nano nerf". You never fixed the COSMOS multi-trillion ISK farming bug. It honestly appears you guys are happy with the way things are, and actually want to cut down on active player numbers.
Hey, that works. I'm done on the 22nd, and since there won't be anything worth coming back to at all, period, I think I'm just plain done with wasting my time on this or any MMO.
Oh and go **** yourselves you dumbasses. There, I said it.
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Liranan
M'8'S Frontal Impact
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Posted - 2008.10.14 04:48:00 -
[866]
Edited by: Liranan on 14/10/2008 04:50:13
Originally by: Erimisha
Originally by: Haldane Fisher
The only way to really get something done about this is the do a mass unsubscribe. I very much doubt it would actually happen, but it ought to work. If people could convince their corps/alliances to take a break for a month...
It is very easy to do. You still get to play until your sub runs out. However, CCP doesn't really *KNOW* if you're going to come back and resub after your account expires. I've seen mass unsubscribes work out very well in other MMOs once people understood that you aren't locked out of the MMO the very second you hit [Unsubscribe] on your account page.
I had 1 account in limbo already and already cancelled my 2 active accounts. *IF* CCP makes changes I can live with then I will simply resub when the 2 accounts expire. However CCP handles this fiasco will have to coincide with CCP bringing back 30 and 90 day GTCs to help keep 60d GTCs in check. If they (somehow) handle the whole "Ghost Training" herring better in the next day or so but not reinstate different GTCs then I'll have to think long and hard about moving all my 'main' character to 1 account. CCP will lose either way. How much they lose is up to them.
Look at this. Star Wars, Asherons Call, Age Of Conan, Sims Online, need I go on? People will unsubscribe if they see they are being screwed. I don't want to see CCP go bankrupt because then EVE will come to an end but, for **** sake, CCP ****ing pack it in. Lag, node crashes, unwanted expansions that add nothing but bugs to this. ****ing fix the game!!! Farjung is my God
You people need to open your eyes and read threads before you mindlessly spam the New Thread link. |
MetBuyer
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 04:49:00 -
[867]
Edited by: MetBuyer on 14/10/2008 04:51:31 This thread is so long that I don't even think that my comment will be read by CCP. But here goes anyway.
I think from a making money perspective CCP hasn't done enough research on the habits of their customers.
The training on unsubscribed accounts has likely been increasing, but how many of those accounts are the 3rd or 4th account of one of their existing customers.
In the last year there's been a significant upshoot in subscriptions. I have a feeling it's partly due to the community getting the impression that running multiple accounts is normal and needed.
The main account will probably stay subscribed the whole time, but the 3rd or 4th account probably trains skills while unsubscribed. People's computers often can't easily run 4 accounts at the same time. They're getting these extra accounts mainly for the skill training.
Most likely many people will cut back on the accounts they have and newer players will decide not to get that 3rd or 4th account.
I guess also the increased amount of training while the account unsubscribed can also be attributed partly to the GTC prices and the real world economy.
I've read many threads about people putting their accounts into deactive training because of the GTC ISK prices that they cannot afford anymore.
The people suffering economically probably are just unsubscribing and putting on long skills because they hope to start playing again when they have more money. |
ALTno6
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 04:50:00 -
[868]
i like not having to have active account to train that long 60 day skills so after patch I will be giving away all my stuff. so send me ur ISk. whoever sends me the most, will get my stuff and ur isk back. when u get my stuff. so send me isk nowwwwwww
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Haldane Fisher
Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 04:51:00 -
[869]
A more fun thing to do would be to hold a continuous mass suicide at the concord hq in game. Let the bodies pile up.
And yes it did work for Conan apparently.
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Annaphera
Minmatar Super Green Industries
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Posted - 2008.10.14 04:51:00 -
[870]
Originally by: Exxonett I have the solution!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
As per the laws and regulations of the u.s. any and all false advertisements are subject to fines imprisonment and or lawsuit. You come after my wallet I come after yours. This is not a threat it is a promise. A foreign country based corporation selling their product in this country does fall under this topic.
so good it was worth the double post.
And you will prove that CCP's right to change the game doesn't cover one little line at the bottom of one section of the players guide how, exactly? You'll have to find it used as a selling point in one of their ads, as in something actually used to sell the game, not in the manual. Why do you think most companies are so careful what they promise in ads?
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Triksterism
Gallente Frozen Corpse Inspection Services United Federation of Capsuleers
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Posted - 2008.10.14 04:52:00 -
[871]
Edited by: Triksterism on 14/10/2008 04:53:59
Originally by: SkwisgaarSkwigelf
Originally by: Alexander Ronay
I took a fairly long hiatus from the game (at least it was to me) And knowing that when I came back, I would have a nice long skill out of the way encouraged me to come back. Without that extra incentive, I may not have come back at all.
I feel that many of the older players agree which leads to...
Originally by: INF Wonderwoman Edited by: INF Wonderwoman on 14/10/2008 04:46:39
Originally by: Zabaticus It's a very simple and beautiful concept; No pay, no play, then no training. Let's hope they kill the other "Ghosts" with malice.
Zabaticus
I wonder how long people who are against this have been playing. I'm sorry but if you have only been playing for a year or less you have no idea. When you hit 3 to 4 years and get to the FEW very long skills (carrier 5, capitol 5, ....) you would have loved being able to take advantage of this. To pay 30 USD just to get carrier 5.... its stupid.
PS. Yes this is an alt, because my main is "Ghost Training" carrier 5 right now, lucky for me I only have 9 days left. Had I not gotten this skill I would not be coming back.
A good point. It would be interesting to know the in-game age of the people supporting the removal of 'ghost training' and the people who are against the removal.
So, for those of you who are for this removal of 'ghost training' -- Why? It's not like you can't do it all the same as the rest of the players in EvE. Anyone can ghost train so perhaps I fail to see the 'imbalance' -- Not to mention ghost training really isnt hurting anyone, it simply isn't squeezing as much money as possible out of everyone but it DOES make A LOT of people happy (or at least content) and hence, they stay subbed. ---------------------------------------
Feature. Bug. Hurf durf. |
Liranan
M'8'S Frontal Impact
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 04:53:00 -
[872]
Originally by: MetBuyer This thread is so long that I don't even think that my comment will be read by CCP. But here goes anyway.
I think from a making money perspective CCP hasn't done enough research on the habits of their customers.
The training on unsubscribed accounts has likely been increasing, but how many of those accounts are the 3rd or 4th account of one of their existing customers.
In the last year there's been a significant upshoot in subscriptions. I have a feeling it's partly due to the community getting the impression that running multiple accounts is normal and needed.
The main account will probably stay subscribed the whole time, but the 3rd or 4th account probably trains skills while unsubscribed. People's computers often can't easily run 4 accounts at the same time. They're getting these extra accounts mainly for the skill training.
Most likely many people will cut back on the accounts they have and newer players will decide not to get that 3rd or 4th account.
I guess also the increase amount of training while the account subscribed can also be attributed partly to the GTC prices and the real world economy.
I've read many threads about people putting their accounts into deactive training because of the GTC ISK prices that they cannot afford anymore.
The people suffering economically probably are just unsubscribing and putting on long skills because they hope to start playing again when they have more money.
My friend, the problem is not Ghost Training itself. The problem is the way it was presented to the players. CCP treated us like five year old monkeys who have no idea what we're doing. We should not have a problem with the chnage, looking at Icelands financial situation. What we should have a problem with is the next thing. Will CCP disable training when you log off and do they really think we're this stupid? Farjung is my God
You people need to open your eyes and read threads before you mindlessly spam the New Thread link. |
Ava Baby
Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 04:54:00 -
[873]
Originally by: Exxonett I have the solution!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
As per the laws and regulations of the u.s. any and all false advertisements are subject to fines imprisonment and or lawsuit. You come after my wallet I come after yours. This is not a threat it is a promise. A foreign country based corporation selling their product in this country does fall under this topic.
Not sure how well that would work. Has far as I know CCP doesn't have a physical presence in the US so there's nothing to go after. CCP could just laugh at the court's ruling. The US government won't block access to CCP's servers. I guess the US could put pressure on them through the WTO but that's a really far fetched and unrealistic scenario plus a complete waste of time and money.
I'm afraid all you can do is write/call CCP and if you're still not happy don't play.
Originally by: Asestorian I support this message. Whatever it is.
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Erimisha
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.10.14 04:54:00 -
[874]
Originally by: Tizoca *snort* My copy of Windows XP occasionally commits an error and tosses up a "blue screen of death", wiping out everything I was working on. The manual mentions the blue screen, and the fact that unsaved work will be lost. Does that make losing your work a "feature", as it is on the list of things the software does? Internet Explorer has loopholes that allow unscrupulous people to hijack my computer; several help files mention this. Are the security loopholes a "feature"? Can you come up with a criticism that doesn't depend on being literal to the point of idiocy?
The Blue screen itself is the feature actually. It allows you to (at least try to) troubleshoot a problem. Losing data is obviously NOT a feature--not to mention you are not gauranteed to lose your data. In the case of Internet Explorer: the plugin architecture thta allows something like Flash player is the feature. However a buffer overflow attack in Flash player obviously is not. I'm also sure that your 'several help files' also mention the risks of said security loopholes. This is similar to CCP's API feature.
Compared to CCP I see them promoting skill training on expired accounts but I don't see them warning anyone of using said 'bug' in the last *5* years..
Even putting that aside, where is your outrage the obvious 'bugs' of "ghost RP gaining," "ghost selling," and/or "ghost CEOing"?
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Exxonett
Caldari Invicta.
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 04:55:00 -
[875]
To publicize it as a feature than remove it as a bug falls under false advertisement.
I . Bait and Switch
Bait and switch advertising is the offering of certain products or services at bargain prices with no intention of selling them as advertised. The real purpose of the bait and switch scheme is to lure consumers into a business establishment with attractive offers and then sell them other more expensive products. To accomplish this, bait and switch sellers disparage the quality of the advertised "specials" or belittle the guarantees, availability of service, or the credit terms related to the product or services offered. In some cases the advertised specials won't even be available for sale or salespersons will refuse to show them to interested consumers. Some bait and switch sellers have been known to go as far as to penalize salespersons who actually sell the advertised specials to consumers. http://www.midnightsquadron.com/msbb/uploads/post-23-1152919992_thumb.jpg Sig Linked. Please resize your sig to within the 400*120 Pixel size limit, and enjoy some egg nog while you're at it. -ReverendM ([email protected]) |
Mar Drakar
LDK Kraftwerk.
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Posted - 2008.10.14 04:56:00 -
[876]
lol, this is pathetic, now all you will see is chars getting moved to active account, at least I will do so with my inventing ***** and cyno dork... no point in another account now.... -- Make your life worth dying. CEO LDK |
Maddog Smee
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 04:57:00 -
[877]
Originally by: Erimisha Even putting that aside, where is your outrage the obvious 'bugs' of "ghost RP gaining," "ghost selling," and/or "ghost CEOing"?
Yes, those need to be addressed the ghost RP gain is even more damaging.
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Liranan
M'8'S Frontal Impact
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 04:57:00 -
[878]
Originally by: Triksterism
So, for those of you who are for this removal of 'ghost training' -- Why? It's not like you can't do it all the same as the rest of the players in EvE. Anyone can ghost train so perhaps I fail to see the 'imbalance' -- Not to mention ghost training really isnt hurting anyone, it simply isn't squeezing as much money as possible out of everyone but it DOES make A LOT of people happy (or at least content) and hence, they stay subbed.
Age? I'm 30, what does that tell you? And I'm against Ghost Training. I know what you mean but you will find people of all ages for and against it, though from your post I get the hint you're saying younger players are more prone to be for it than older players.
Ghost training does cost CCP money because you pay for one month, set skill, disable account, log in three weeks later, change skill, disable account. A one month time card could last months this way and, I agree with CCP, it is not good for business.
I will repeat myself again. The problem of the majority of the posters is not about Ghost Training but about the lies spun by CCP. Farjung is my God
You people need to open your eyes and read threads before you mindlessly spam the New Thread link. |
PsychoBones II
R.E.C.O.N. The Firm.
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 04:58:00 -
[879]
Originally by: Haldane Fisher If people could convince their corps/alliances to take a break for a month...
Can I use their moons until they get back?
Quit banning me. |
Triksterism
Gallente Frozen Corpse Inspection Services United Federation of Capsuleers
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 04:59:00 -
[880]
Originally by: Liranan
Originally by: Triksterism
So, for those of you who are for this removal of 'ghost training' -- Why? It's not like you can't do it all the same as the rest of the players in EvE. Anyone can ghost train so perhaps I fail to see the 'imbalance' -- Not to mention ghost training really isnt hurting anyone, it simply isn't squeezing as much money as possible out of everyone but it DOES make A LOT of people happy (or at least content) and hence, they stay subbed.
Age? I'm 30, what does that tell you? And I'm against Ghost Training. I know what you mean but you will find people of all ages for and against it, though from your post I get the hint you're saying younger players are more prone to be for it than older players.
Ghost training does cost CCP money because you pay for one month, set skill, disable account, log in three weeks later, change skill, disable account. A one month time card could last months this way and, I agree with CCP, it is not good for business.
I will repeat myself again. The problem of the majority of the posters is not about Ghost Training but about the lies spun by CCP.
I believe it was in-game age that was mentioned. -
Ghost Train & Snowflake |
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Greckor Monmouth
THE FINAL STAND
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Posted - 2008.10.14 04:59:00 -
[881]
minus 3 to 4 accounts for ccp, great job...
your getting as bad as SOE, please make yourself better
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SkwisgaarSkwigelf
C.R.M Productions
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 04:59:00 -
[882]
Originally by: Liranan
Originally by: Triksterism
So, for those of you who are for this removal of 'ghost training' -- Why? It's not like you can't do it all the same as the rest of the players in EvE. Anyone can ghost train so perhaps I fail to see the 'imbalance' -- Not to mention ghost training really isnt hurting anyone, it simply isn't squeezing as much money as possible out of everyone but it DOES make A LOT of people happy (or at least content) and hence, they stay subbed.
Age? I'm 30, what does that tell you? And I'm against Ghost Training. I know what you mean but you will find people of all ages for and against it, though from your post I get the hint you're saying younger players are more prone to be for it than older players.
Ghost training does cost CCP money because you pay for one month, set skill, disable account, log in three weeks later, change skill, disable account. A one month time card could last months this way and, I agree with CCP, it is not good for business.
I will repeat myself again. The problem of the majority of the posters is not about Ghost Training but about the lies spun by CCP.
I thought it was age of toon ingame, not RL age... maybe I was wrong
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PsychoBones II
R.E.C.O.N. The Firm.
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 05:00:00 -
[883]
Originally by: Exxonett I have the solution!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
As per the laws and regulations of the u.s. any and all false advertisements are subject to fines imprisonment and or lawsuit. You come after my wallet I come after yours. This is not a threat it is a promise. A foreign country based corporation selling their product in this country does fall under this topic.
Typical American solution. Sue everything.
Quit banning me. |
Triksterism
Gallente Frozen Corpse Inspection Services United Federation of Capsuleers
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 05:00:00 -
[884]
Originally by: SkwisgaarSkwigelf
Originally by: Liranan
Originally by: Triksterism
So, for those of you who are for this removal of 'ghost training' -- Why? It's not like you can't do it all the same as the rest of the players in EvE. Anyone can ghost train so perhaps I fail to see the 'imbalance' -- Not to mention ghost training really isnt hurting anyone, it simply isn't squeezing as much money as possible out of everyone but it DOES make A LOT of people happy (or at least content) and hence, they stay subbed.
Age? I'm 30, what does that tell you? And I'm against Ghost Training. I know what you mean but you will find people of all ages for and against it, though from your post I get the hint you're saying younger players are more prone to be for it than older players.
Ghost training does cost CCP money because you pay for one month, set skill, disable account, log in three weeks later, change skill, disable account. A one month time card could last months this way and, I agree with CCP, it is not good for business.
I will repeat myself again. The problem of the majority of the posters is not about Ghost Training but about the lies spun by CCP.
I thought it was age of toon ingame, not RL age... maybe I was wrong
No, you read it correctly, he did not. ---------------------------------------
Feature. Bug. Hurf durf. |
Sean Mcarthur
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 05:00:00 -
[885]
Hmm good thing I solled one character allready as I think a lot of players will sell their alts now, which will have prices faling rapidly. I Just bought a second offer of 2 account last month, guess that character will have to be sold. I for one is not going to pay for 3 acounts when I can max use 2 anyway. I did ghosth train with 2 acounts before, but as most skills i train take around 20 days then it is clear that you made MORE money with 2 acounts that was on 30 days then off in 20 days, than you would have with just 1 account.
This is BULL**** and I feel ashamed that I have just had a friend come onboard, as I used that "bug" as a selling point and it was the final desicive factor that he accepted. oh well better stop him before his trial runs out
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Juntar Solarwind
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Posted - 2008.10.14 05:00:00 -
[886]
Adapt and overcome. Get over it already and move on. Either pay to play or let your accounts lapse and don't come back. Pretty simple if you stop and think about it.
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Haldane Fisher
Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2008.10.14 05:01:00 -
[887]
Originally by: Liranan
Originally by: Triksterism
So, for those of you who are for this removal of 'ghost training' -- Why? It's not like you can't do it all the same as the rest of the players in EvE. Anyone can ghost train so perhaps I fail to see the 'imbalance' -- Not to mention ghost training really isnt hurting anyone, it simply isn't squeezing as much money as possible out of everyone but it DOES make A LOT of people happy (or at least content) and hence, they stay subbed.
Age? I'm 30, what does that tell you? And I'm against Ghost Training. I know what you mean but you will find people of all ages for and against it, though from your post I get the hint you're saying younger players are more prone to be for it than older players.
Ghost training does cost CCP money because you pay for one month, set skill, disable account, log in three weeks later, change skill, disable account. A one month time card could last months this way and, I agree with CCP, it is not good for business.
I will repeat myself again. The problem of the majority of the posters is not about Ghost Training but about the lies spun by CCP.
If I knew for a fact that there was no benefit from having multiple accounts with multiple characters training out of subscription, ccp wouldn't get any money at all from me since I wouldn't subscribe in the first place.
They don't lose what they never had...see?
Same thing with game piracy. Not that I practise such a thing, but if I were to download...say some EA drivel...EA wouldn't be getting my money for that game anyway since I couldn't stomach the thought of giving them cash.
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Ava Baby
Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 05:01:00 -
[888]
Edited by: Ava Baby on 14/10/2008 05:03:39
Originally by: Liranan
Age?
I think he's referring to age as in how long they've been playing.
But I'm 30 as well
Originally by: Asestorian I support this message. Whatever it is.
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Alexander Ronay
Crushed Ambitions
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Posted - 2008.10.14 05:01:00 -
[889]
Edited by: Alexander Ronay on 14/10/2008 05:02:47
Originally by: Liranan
Ghost training does cost CCP money because you pay for one month, set skill, disable account, log in three weeks later, change skill, disable account. A one month time card could last months this way and, I agree with CCP, it is not good for business.
I wasn't aware that it worked that way. I was under the impression that game time was used in 30, 60, or 90 day increments. If it is true, that you can split up 30 days like that, then maybe it does need slight tweaking.
But not like this.
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Carsidava
Ars ex Discordia GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 05:02:00 -
[890]
I'm going to keep posting this until someone from CCP gives answers.
Nope, sorry. This doesn't wash.
If you disable skill training for inactive accounts, why aren't you also disabling market orders from inactive accounts? Why aren't you also disabling RP accumulation from inactive accounts? Why aren't you disabling dividend payouts to inactive accounts?
Why are only skill points being hit?
Sorry CCP, this is an entirely unsatisfactory answer. |
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Erimisha
Minmatar
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 05:03:00 -
[891]
Originally by: Exxonett To publicize it as a feature than remove it as a bug falls under false advertisement.
I . Bait and Switch
Listen, I've been annoyed at this all day long and have talked at length to others about it. However, don't be stupid. One sentence that CCP has all over in various forms is [paraphrasing] "Online play subject to change".
This change (and most importantly how it was delivered/handled) is ALOT of things but the only thing "criminal" here is stupidity like yours with all sorts of 100% empty legal threats.
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Haldane Fisher
Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2008.10.14 05:03:00 -
[892]
Originally by: Alexander Ronay
Originally by: Liranan
Originally by: Triksterism
Ghost training does cost CCP money because you pay for one month, set skill, disable account, log in three weeks later, change skill, disable account. A one month time card could last months this way and, I agree with CCP, it is not good for business.
I wasn't aware that it worked that way. I was under the impression that game time was used in 30, 60, or 90 day increments. If it is true, that you can split up 30 days like that, then maybe it does need slight tweaking.
But not like this.
It doesn't work that way... or if it does its the dumbest thing I've ever heard and CCP have themselves to blame.
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SkwisgaarSkwigelf
C.R.M Productions
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 05:04:00 -
[893]
Originally by: Carsidava I'm going to keep posting this until someone from CCP gives answers.
yarrr
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INF Wonderwoman
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Posted - 2008.10.14 05:04:00 -
[894]
Originally by: Juntar Solarwind Adapt and overcome. Get over it already and move on. Either pay to play or let your accounts lapse and don't come back. Pretty simple if you stop and think about it.
Yes, just step aside and let the "government" do what they want... This is a player based game and we have the right to say whats good or not. If you get someone in office that wants to blow up all of Asia, do you say adapt and overcome,just get over it? .... stupid.
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Alexander Ronay
Crushed Ambitions
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Posted - 2008.10.14 05:05:00 -
[895]
Originally by: Carsidava I'm going to keep posting this until someone from CCP gives answers.
Nope, sorry. This doesn't wash.
If you disable skill training for inactive accounts, why aren't you also disabling market orders from inactive accounts? Why aren't you also disabling RP accumulation from inactive accounts? Why aren't you disabling dividend payouts to inactive accounts?
Why are only skill points being hit?
Sorry CCP, this is an entirely unsatisfactory answer.
I think we have our answer. It's a phrase, that has 2 words in it. It starts with an "F" and ends with a "you."
CCP's silence speaks volumes.
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Zabaticus
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Posted - 2008.10.14 05:05:00 -
[896]
Wow the whining is awesome. If this is such a horrendous decision (I think it's great) then unsubscribe - right now - don't take it - go. Right now - do it - you don't have to take it - show them who's boss. We need the chaff removed so the wheat can grow anyway.
I'll be polite and say Be Well but definitely not Well met.
Zabaticus
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Seth Ruin
Minmatar Ominous Corp Ethereal Dawn
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Posted - 2008.10.14 05:05:00 -
[897]
I can't wait to log in tomorrow morning and read their official retraction of this decision
-- (CCP Inconsistency)
Why cover it up? We KNOW it's all just about money |
Oftherocks
Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 05:06:00 -
[898]
Originally by: Alexander Ronay Edited by: Alexander Ronay on 14/10/2008 05:02:47
Originally by: Liranan
Ghost training does cost CCP money because you pay for one month, set skill, disable account, log in three weeks later, change skill, disable account. A one month time card could last months this way and, I agree with CCP, it is not good for business.
I wasn't aware that it worked that way. I was under the impression that game time was used in 30, 60, or 90 day increments. If it is true, that you can split up 30 days like that, then maybe it does need slight tweaking.
But not like this.
It does not work like that, game time is used in the above mentioned increments. A 30GTC will last only 30 days, you can't break it up.
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Haldane Fisher
Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2008.10.14 05:06:00 -
[899]
Originally by: Alexander Ronay
Originally by: Carsidava I'm going to keep posting this until someone from CCP gives answers.
Nope, sorry. This doesn't wash.
If you disable skill training for inactive accounts, why aren't you also disabling market orders from inactive accounts? Why aren't you also disabling RP accumulation from inactive accounts? Why aren't you disabling dividend payouts to inactive accounts?
Why are only skill points being hit?
Sorry CCP, this is an entirely unsatisfactory answer.
I think we have our answer. It's a phrase, that has 2 words in it. It starts with an "F" and ends with a "you."
CCP's silence speaks volumes.
Or to quote a famous saying.
"**** you pay me"
"Skills continue training even if you are logged off or if your account is inactive (in the second scenario you can't change skill training, though)." |
Exxonett
Caldari Invicta.
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 05:06:00 -
[900]
Edited by: Exxonett on 14/10/2008 05:06:53
Originally by: PsychoBones II
Originally by: Exxonett I have the solution!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
As per the laws and regulations of the u.s. any and all false advertisements are subject to fines imprisonment and or lawsuit. You come after my wallet I come after yours. This is not a threat it is a promise. A foreign country based corporation selling their product in this country does fall under this topic.
Typical American solution. Sue everything.
My intention is not to sue but to display the fact that they can be sued. If they fix their lies and stop trying to rob people this really isn't an issue then. However if they choose to continue on this chosen path there seem to be enough people to make it costly.I have never sued anyone as of this point. I have however, have used it as a threat to get my point across. When you mention their wallets they listen to what you have to say just a little bit more. http://www.midnightsquadron.com/msbb/uploads/post-23-1152919992_thumb.jpg Sig Linked. Please resize your sig to within the 400*120 Pixel size limit, and enjoy some egg nog while you're at it. -ReverendM ([email protected]) |
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Triksterism
Gallente Frozen Corpse Inspection Services United Federation of Capsuleers
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Posted - 2008.10.14 05:06:00 -
[901]
Originally by: INF Wonderwoman
Originally by: Juntar Solarwind Adapt and overcome. Get over it already and move on. Either pay to play or let your accounts lapse and don't come back. Pretty simple if you stop and think about it.
Yes, just step aside and let the "government" do what they want... This is a player based game and we have the right to say whats good or not. If you get someone in office that wants to blow up all of Asia, do you say adapt and overcome,just get over it? .... stupid.
That is something a lot of people don't realize. Who makes the game what it is? The players. Who should the company listen to when they want to improve things to keep people paying and playing? The players. I'm not one for just sitting back and "oh whatever, I'll just adapt! Hurf durf!" -
Ghost Train & Snowflake |
dabatman
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 05:06:00 -
[902]
-1 account that I paid for consistently up till now. I'm in college, I love the main on that account, but I'm not gonna make this a second job to keep that toon and this one running cause GTC's cost too damn much. Worst change ever, hell even worse than when WOW decided to make 2 years of work in the game not matter at all 20 minutes into the expansion. Way to go guys.
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Erimisha
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.10.14 05:07:00 -
[903]
Originally by: Liranan
Ghost training does cost CCP money because you pay for one month, set skill, disable account, log in three weeks later, change skill, disable account. A one month time card could last months this way and, I agree with CCP, it is not good for business.
Uh, what you explain is NOT ghost training and it doesn't even work like that. A 1 month subscription lasts 30 consecutive days. Whether you cancel in day 1 or day 30 your time is up 30 days after the initial payment (credit card, GTC, etc). It is NOT like a prepaid cellphone where a prepaid block of 90 minutes lasts 90 minutes of "useage" regardless of 90 mins in 1 day or 1 minute for 90 days in a row which is what you described.
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Haldane Fisher
Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2008.10.14 05:07:00 -
[904]
Edited by: Haldane Fisher on 14/10/2008 05:09:03
Originally by: Exxonett
Originally by: PsychoBones II
Originally by: Exxonett I have the solution!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
As per the laws and regulations of the u.s. any and all false advertisements are subject to fines imprisonment and or lawsuit. You come after my wallet I come after yours. This is not a threat it is a promise. A foreign country based corporation selling their product in this country does fall under this topic.
Typical American solution. Sue everything.
My intention is not to sue but to display the fact that they can be sued. If they fix their lies and stop trying to rob people this really isn't an issue then. However if they choose to continue on this chosen path there seem to be enough people to make it costly.I have never sued anyone as of this point and as have used it as a threat to get my point across. When you mention their wallets they listen to what you have to say just a little bit more.
Read the EULA lately? You havent been sold anything other than the ability to log into a game being run on a server in england.
Everything else is owned by CCP, you own nothing. They also reserver the right to change anything at any time.
"Skills continue training even if you are logged off or if your account is inactive (in the second scenario you can't change skill training, though)." |
Andrua
Leprosorium
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 05:07:00 -
[905]
Originally by: Liranan
Originally by: Triksterism
Ghost training does cost CCP money because you pay for one month, set skill, disable account, log in three weeks later, change skill, disable account. A one month time card could last months this way and, I agree with CCP, it is not good for business.
In the imaginary world where time card work like this, it would be true, yes. Unfortunately, subscription start ticking when you activate it, and while it will allow you to switch skills after 3 weeks, it will expire in one week after that, disabled account or not. And you need to pay an at least monthly fee to reactivate it. Which reactivation will start ticking for whatever period you've paid it, again, no matter disabled or not.
The only way to use ghost training is to have a skill longer than your current subscription period expiration date. Which are not too many skills, by the way.
Or I am missing something very big and important.
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Oftherocks
Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2008.10.14 05:08:00 -
[906]
Originally by: Zabaticus Wow the whining is awesome. If this is such a horrendous decision (I think it's great) then unsubscribe - right now - don't take it - go. Right now - do it - you don't have to take it - show them who's boss. We need the chaff removed so the wheat can grow anyway.
I'll be polite and say Be Well but definitely not Well met.
Zabaticus
Do you want a job with Eve's marketing department? I think you'd fit in just perfectly.
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Athena Nyx
White Shadow Imperium Conviction.
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Posted - 2008.10.14 05:09:00 -
[907]
I recently cancled my account because I'm allmost homeless and I need the extra cash.
I had planned on training BS5 before I left, but now I don't see the point of even logging in for the few days I have remaining. Meh, whatever.
The only thing i'm worried about is this kind of thing eventually progressing to the point where inactive accounts are deleted after a few months. Hopefully that will never happen, but you never know. EVE is becoming more mainstream by the day which is part of the reason i've lost interest.
Later gents.
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Ishbuanium
Black Skull Legion Veneratio Venator Alliance
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Posted - 2008.10.14 05:09:00 -
[908]
Maybe we're looking at this from the wrong angle?
Maybe this was a bug? If it was it would fit CCP's timeframe for fixing them
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Liranan
M'8'S Frontal Impact
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Posted - 2008.10.14 05:09:00 -
[909]
Originally by: Triksterism
No, you read it correctly, he did not.
LOL speak of misunderstanding!! I r Idiot!1!
Hi AVA!!!! Farjung is my God
You people need to open your eyes and read threads before you mindlessly spam the New Thread link. |
Daelin Blackleaf
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Posted - 2008.10.14 05:10:00 -
[910]
I don't particularly care about ghost training, but I don't like the trend that is being continued here.
Originally by: 'Dev Blog' Ghost Training was an unintended feature where unpaid accounts of EVE Online were able to continue training skills. While this allowed players to run multiple characters on a shoestring budget, in all effect, this was a bug.
This is, in all effect, a blatant lie. With the decision to keep this documented feature on Tranquility when it was to be removed with the release of Dragon you confirmed, a second time, that this is a feature.
Originally by: 'News' A long overdue and much needed change
Overdue since when? Much needed how? Can you quantify this statement.
Originally by: 'OP' This practice upsets the balance of the game
How? I doubt it upsets the balance of the game nearly as much as those of us with multiple accounts do.
This is the 30/90day GTC issue all over again, a perceived opportunity for greater profit getting in the way of honesty and respect for your community.
Remove features, change payment options, but retain enough respect for your customers to either tell us the truth about the change or tell us nothing at all.
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Gig Malchura
Frozen Corpse Inspection Services United Federation of Capsuleers
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Posted - 2008.10.14 05:10:00 -
[911]
Originally by: Zabaticus Wow the whining is awesome. If this is such a horrendous decision (I think it's great) then unsubscribe - right now - don't take it - go. Right now - do it - you don't have to take it - show them who's boss. We need the chaff removed so the wheat can grow anyway.
I'll be polite and say Be Well but definitely not Well met.
Zabaticus
At lease be man enough to post with your main.
PS: Carrier 5 Finishing in less than a week on my primary account thanks to ghost training. Reason, tired of all this bullshit, decided to take a break and come back later. Might as well have some skill training.
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Exxonett
Caldari Invicta.
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 05:10:00 -
[912]
Pyramid quoting is prohibited.Applebabe
Also not an issue though I own nothing the cash I invest is very real and there are consequences for misleading to a person to get their cash. http://www.midnightsquadron.com/msbb/uploads/post-23-1152919992_thumb.jpg Sig Linked. Please resize your sig to within the 400*120 Pixel size limit, and enjoy some egg nog while you're at it. -ReverendM ([email protected]) |
Demitria Fernir
Caldari Science and Trade Institute
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 05:12:00 -
[913]
the fact that "ghost training" actually required reactivation to change skill, you have lost all ghost training accounts.
good job CCP, enjoy you -x00 accounts. _______________________________________________ 10100110010100101010011010100101001100101110101 I will Conquer My Signature Somewhere in the future 10100110010100101010011010100101001100101110101 |
Triksterism
Gallente Frozen Corpse Inspection Services United Federation of Capsuleers
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 05:12:00 -
[914]
Originally by: Liranan
Originally by: Triksterism
No, you read it correctly, he did not.
LOL speak of misunderstanding!! I r Idiot!1!
Hi AVA!!!!
What? The person I quoted read my post correctly. The other person he referred to did not. Perhaps I should have switched the comma for a period. -
Ghost Train & Snowflake |
Nobler
Caldari Divine Power
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Posted - 2008.10.14 05:13:00 -
[915]
I'm against this.
I would have typed more, but it would have been trolling.
Sorry to hear that CCP decided to do this, I wish CCP could *fix* something else.
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James Marshalll
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.10.14 05:14:00 -
[916]
If you hadn't had talked up the fact you could train with your account inactive... I might believe you.
If your GM crew didn't pull crap like giving back certain players lost ships in gridlocked fleet fights, while telling others you don't like no, I might believe you.
If you hadn't banned the guy who blew the whistle on some of your gm's cheating, for "account sharing" because you had no real other recourse to stop the floodgates of bad press, I would believe you.
If you hadn't taken money out of one of my alt accounts because I sold time cards to an isk farmer unknown to me at the time he was of course(before they outlawed reselling of GTC's of course) I might have believe you....(more so had the GM not told me that I should have known who I was selling to before I did it *cough* yes because I keep an active log of every CC scammer, and ISK farmer in eve....)
Will I quit? Prolly not right now, but you can bet if I have to quit the game for monetary reasons, real life reasons, or work the fact I won't be coming back to a character who was at least semi keeping me on pace with my friends will be a LOT easier to walk away from.
/shrug. Either way its a bs move and you guys know it, but you have your fanbois who think you can do no wrong, so they will you guys happy with whatever you shovel them. You won't miss those of us who do leave I am sure.
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Gin Doom
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Posted - 2008.10.14 05:14:00 -
[917]
Wow, many great comments, hats off to the many.
So no more T2 BPO's for the newer players, damn that sucked. Now add in carrier 5 and all the support skills. Ok I can manage that while using my other acct. I mean gzz I paid for the damn skill and the time to activate the training. But wait, lets stop the latest bug like "ghost training". Can you least come up with a better excuse then a bug? Baiscly the better established you are in the game the better off you are. If I only had that T2 BPO and those skills allready trained, then I'd be pretty happy getting timecards for free. But wait I'm not that old and need to grind for iskies and while on another acct - hmm paid account i mean. 1+0 = 1, so where's the money loss to CCP? Please explain how this is gonna get you more people to play the game when in my opinion, its getting harder to. I guess the game is missing to many frig tacklers and this is the solution or the servers are just so poorly maintained its time to push out the not so obsessed players. Damn, I allready lost one of my best PvP corpmates to the timecode change now this. Everything that has a beginning, has an end.
Fly safe no matter what your flying :)
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Alexander Ronay
Crushed Ambitions
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Posted - 2008.10.14 05:14:00 -
[918]
Originally by: Triksterism
Originally by: Liranan
Originally by: Triksterism
No, you read it correctly, he did not.
LOL speak of misunderstanding!! I r Idiot!1!
Hi AVA!!!!
What? The person I quoted read my post correctly. The other person he referred to did not. Perhaps I should have switched the comma for a period.
This whole quote structure is getting confusing. Perhaps I should spend more time on the forums
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Velda Chulai
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Posted - 2008.10.14 05:14:00 -
[919]
Edited by: Velda Chulai on 14/10/2008 05:14:46 Lets make up an example of how training might work:
You gain 1500 points per hour, and you have a 1500 point skill. This means that, if I'm training a skill, it will be completed in an hour. The only thing that changes this is if I decide to stop training that skill. So I reach 750 points - at that point my character is credited with 750 points toward that skill. Now I start training Skill B, which is a 3000 point skill - two hours to train. I complete it, but once i hit 3000 points, the client polls teh server to confirm the "Stop training" action. The server replies with "Yep, you're training is complete."
At no point were there any excessive database transactions made; everything simply worked and it was schedule based. The actual points are credited, but only when I directed the server to cease training.
At this point, I decide to complete training on the original skill. With 750 points credited towards the skill and no changes to my learning skill, I can be as certain as teh server that my skill will finish in 30 minutes. Once again I go back to "training" with a pre-determined completion time on the server side.
Are you now trying to explain to us that this is not how it worked?
The answer to this will be interesting I'm sure.
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Annaphera
Minmatar Super Green Industries
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Posted - 2008.10.14 05:16:00 -
[920]
Triksterism - judging by the responses in this thread, I'm reconsidering the wisdom of arguing the point here at all. Everyone, on both sides and myself included, seems to be seeing only what they want to see, and more or less has their opinion set in stone.
Just for your edification, however, I'll say it again:
1) CCP actually admitted it's partly a cash flow issue. I don't think they were prepared for this level of backlash, else they might not have done it, but I for one am in favor of giving them more security in some pretty nasty financial times. They came out and admitted it, as many people said they should, and got very little of the promised (in the 50-page forum thread) understanding. 2) I'm shocked it was ever in the game at all to allow people freebies like that. I'm not shocked they want to close the loophole. While I'm saddened to see them move towards the industry standard, I'm not at all surprised or outraged. 3) No matter what people seem to think, there IS a balance issue involved. Newer players don't have 45-day skills to train, and so must maintain a sub or go without training. Only the very skilled characters gain any real benefit, making the "perk" that "anyone can use" a bit lop-sided. So, someone working on Dreadnought 5 gets to not pay for two months, while newer players must pay. I know there are a few things that newer characters can get, but the benefits are slight, as they will wind up with no isk at the end if they take a similar period off. To underline it, I watched people in a former corp do exactly that, while I changed skills every few days at most. 4) I do think CCP dropped the ball on the style of the announcement. However, at this point I find myself (childishly, I admit) unwilling to bend because some people are so flipping outraged that CCP DARES to change something that - despite protests to the contrary - was never used by CCP to sell the game, nor promised as a feature. I've also been called names for daring to hold a minority opinion, which always puts my back up.
Now...I'm not taking part any longer, because nothing is really being accomplished here. No one is going to change their minds, and no one who needs to hear these sides is probably going to be able to plow through all this and keep sane. Good luck and sorry to see you go to all who are quitting...and everyone else, see you in game.
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SkwisgaarSkwigelf
C.R.M Productions
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 05:17:00 -
[921]
Originally by: Velda Chulai Edited by: Velda Chulai on 14/10/2008 05:14:46 Lets make up an example of how training might work:
You gain 1500 points per hour, and you have a 1500 point skill. This means that, if I'm training a skill, it will be completed in an hour. The only thing that changes this is if I decide to stop training that skill. So I reach 750 points - at that point my character is credited with 750 points toward that skill. Now I start training Skill B, which is a 3000 point skill - two hours to train. I complete it, but once i hit 3000 points, the client polls teh server to confirm the "Stop training" action. The server replies with "Yep, you're training is complete."
At no point were there any excessive database transactions made; everything simply worked and it was schedule based. The actual points are credited, but only when I directed the server to cease training.
At this point, I decide to complete training on the original skill. With 750 points credited towards the skill and no changes to my learning skill, I can be as certain as teh server that my skill will finish in 30 minutes. Once again I go back to "training" with a pre-determined completion time on the server side.
Are you now trying to explain to us that this is not how it worked?
The answer to this will be interesting I'm sure.
if by answer you mean complete silence.
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Ralf Kenichi
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Posted - 2008.10.14 05:17:00 -
[922]
in for name fairness after the 15 October patch i can finally queue mi skill training for the fairness of that pay to play. after that date the will no excuse from part of ccp to get os one. the possible excuse pll going inactive and leave their skills in queue . like ccp don't like to lose money, wasting skill training time is also playing with or money ! i rely hop that their r taking this in consideration
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Catherine Frasier
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Posted - 2008.10.14 05:19:00 -
[923]
Originally by: Liranan
Originally by: Catherine Frasier
That's pretty weak, even for a sycophant
Right, like just calling me names is such a powerful argument.
You are an idiotic fanboi. Shut up until you're ready to reveal who you actually are. I don't care whether you're in my corp, alliance, the GBC or whether you're a Goon, in MM, RZR or are a CCP employee. When you can stop being childish and hiding bhind some year old NPC character come back and post. Ahh, that's a much better argument! You don't like the character I post with! What an insightful way to address the content of the discussion.
And, just FYI, having been war dec'ed in the past by mouth-breathing knuckle-walkers who use in-game force when their emorage surpasses their out-of-game capabilities and having no particular interest in subjecting my corp-mates to such sophomoric nonsense, I post with this alt.
Mandatory posting in oog forums under the byline of an ig character is one of the dumbest things CCP has done, tbh.
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Haldane Fisher
Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2008.10.14 05:19:00 -
[924]
Originally by: Annaphera
1) CCP actually admitted it's partly a cash flow issue. I don't think they were prepared for this level of backlash
They admitted that CCP is a business and all businesses are there to make profit. For public image, as all businesses have, they said that with the increased cashflow they can take better care of the game we all love so much.
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Haldane Fisher
Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2008.10.14 05:20:00 -
[925]
Originally by: Catherine Frasier
Originally by: Liranan
Originally by: Catherine Frasier
That's pretty weak, even for a sycophant
Right, like just calling me names is such a powerful argument.
You are an idiotic fanboi. Shut up until you're ready to reveal who you actually are. I don't care whether you're in my corp, alliance, the GBC or whether you're a Goon, in MM, RZR or are a CCP employee. When you can stop being childish and hiding bhind some year old NPC character come back and post.
Ahh, that's a much better argument! You don't like the character I post with! What an insightful way to address the content of the discussion.
And, just FYI, having been war dec'ed in the past by mouth-breathing knuckle-walkers who use in-game force when their emorage surpasses their out-of-game capabilities and having no particular interest in subjecting my corp-mates to such sophomoric nonsense, I post with this alt.
Mandatory posting in oog forums under the byline of an ig character is one of the dumbest things CCP has done, tbh.
You don't like making people accountable for what they say in game or out?
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ATARI BABY
Lords Of Guile
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 05:20:00 -
[926]
Edited by: ATARI BABY on 14/10/2008 05:20:47 this size of LIE must live forever.
LIE |
Gig Malchura
Frozen Corpse Inspection Services United Federation of Capsuleers
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 05:21:00 -
[927]
Originally by: Annaphera
3) No matter what people seem to think, there IS a balance issue involved. Newer players don't have 45-day skills to train, and so must maintain a sub or go without training. Only the very skilled characters gain any real benefit, making the "perk" that "anyone can use" a bit lop-sided. So, someone working on Dreadnought 5 gets to not pay for two months, while newer players must pay. I know there are a few things that newer characters can get, but the benefits are slight, as they will wind up with no isk at the end if they take a similar period off. To underline it, I watched people in a former corp do exactly that, while I changed skills every few days at most.
U forget, most of these older chars your refering to also had those days of short skills, and like most, subbed every time to get those done. Now once you get to that level, you will think to yourself, ghost training would have really been nice to have right now.
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lceman
Gallente Destructive Influence Band of Brothers
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 05:21:00 -
[928]
Edited by: lceman on 14/10/2008 05:24:13 lol thats the only thing i can say, how can you truly belive that the amount of close subscription is not the direct result of you changing the price and the gtc.
Now this "ghost" training you socalled fancy called is nothing mere than people saying that you guys are pushing it to the limit, either listen og be sure that this avalanche is really gonna hit you guys hard.
Second thing: power of 2, seriously when is the old fatefull gamers gonna reak any benefiets give people possiblety of grouping their accounts and get a discount pr account.
my 2 cents. If what not is, what is ?. |
Kate Mosh
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Posted - 2008.10.14 05:21:00 -
[929]
I have 3 continuously active accounts. I don't ghost train but I believe getting rid of it is totally stupid. I'd list why I feel this way but every point leading to my position has been covered several times already. Dumb.
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UnDeRBaLaNcE
The Dead Parrot Shoppe Inc.
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Posted - 2008.10.14 05:22:00 -
[930]
Originally by: Divideby0 HAHAHAHHAAHHAHA...
I really don't see the problem here. "So you no longer get something you are not paying for." I sense a whole lot of people are ****ed that they can no longer cheaply maintain their "capital alt" fleet.
$15 is not that much money. Cable television costs at least 2-3x that in the US. In some places, that's three beers. Drink three less beers next month and you can keep your alt training. (hey, if you pay in advance, its cheaper.)
I really doubt they will lose that many customers. Those customers will just stop paying so much to play. And if they DO leave, that just means more space for the rest of us.
Can we have your stuff?
Complete agree with your opinion
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Catherine Frasier
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Posted - 2008.10.14 05:22:00 -
[931]
Originally by: Ralf Kenichi in for name fairness after the 15 October patch i can finally queue mi skill training for the fairness of that pay to play. after that date the will no excuse from part of ccp to get os one.
I don't really see the connection here. You couldn't change skills on a ghost account anyways. Yes a 1 slot queue would be convenient, but what's it got to do with this?
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Serenity Steele
Dynamic Data Distribution Ministry of Information
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Posted - 2008.10.14 05:22:00 -
[932]
Surely 30 pages in 24hrs is a record on the forums?
I really can't understand what all the whining is about, considering that the minimum period of game time you can buy is 1 month anyway.
That must mean keeping an account alive 50% of the time - and for what? So you can sell it at a later date for profit?
So you're $ cost for ISK purchase has declined. My heart bleeds.
≡v≡ Strategic Maps in Eve-Online Store | eve-maps.com |
Triksterism
Gallente Frozen Corpse Inspection Services United Federation of Capsuleers
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Posted - 2008.10.14 05:23:00 -
[933]
Originally by: Annaphera Triksterism - judging by the responses in this thread, I'm reconsidering the wisdom of arguing the point here at all. Everyone, on both sides and myself included, seems to be seeing only what they want to see, and more or less has their opinion set in stone.
Just for your edification, however, I'll say it again:
1) CCP actually admitted it's partly a cash flow issue. I don't think they were prepared for this level of backlash, else they might not have done it, but I for one am in favor of giving them more security in some pretty nasty financial times. They came out and admitted it, as many people said they should, and got very little of the promised (in the 50-page forum thread) understanding. 2) I'm shocked it was ever in the game at all to allow people freebies like that. I'm not shocked they want to close the loophole. While I'm saddened to see them move towards the industry standard, I'm not at all surprised or outraged. 3) No matter what people seem to think, there IS a balance issue involved. Newer players don't have 45-day skills to train, and so must maintain a sub or go without training. Only the very skilled characters gain any real benefit, making the "perk" that "anyone can use" a bit lop-sided. So, someone working on Dreadnought 5 gets to not pay for two months, while newer players must pay. I know there are a few things that newer characters can get, but the benefits are slight, as they will wind up with no isk at the end if they take a similar period off. To underline it, I watched people in a former corp do exactly that, while I changed skills every few days at most. 4) I do think CCP dropped the ball on the style of the announcement. However, at this point I find myself (childishly, I admit) unwilling to bend because some people are so flipping outraged that CCP DARES to change something that - despite protests to the contrary - was never used by CCP to sell the game, nor promised as a feature. I've also been called names for daring to hold a minority opinion, which always puts my back up.
Now...I'm not taking part any longer, because nothing is really being accomplished here. No one is going to change their minds, and no one who needs to hear these sides is probably going to be able to plow through all this and keep sane. Good luck and sorry to see you go to all who are quitting...and everyone else, see you in game.
They removed the 'snowflake' reference in the devblog. Interesting. At any rate I appreciate your maturity in the post.
However, in your third part, you say it is unbalanced for newer players. Okay, but everyone was a new player at...well, seems Gig beat me to the point. ---------------------------------------
Feature. Bug. Hurf durf. |
SkwisgaarSkwigelf
C.R.M Productions
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Posted - 2008.10.14 05:24:00 -
[934]
Originally by: Serenity Steele Surely 30 pages in 24hrs is a record on the forums?
30 + 50 page closed by ccp...
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Ava Baby
Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2008.10.14 05:24:00 -
[935]
Edited by: Ava Baby on 14/10/2008 05:24:40
Originally by: Liranan
Hi AVA!!!!
HI Liranan ( のnの)
I still think CCP should leave the current skill training system in place.
CCP SP
Has this tread gone off topic yet?
Originally by: Asestorian I support this message. Whatever it is.
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Oxylan
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Posted - 2008.10.14 05:24:00 -
[936]
I spend a lot real money for GTC and a lot isk for secure gtc because i have my main and 2 alts,but i cant pay a lot real money for my all characters and (freez mode skiling somtime was last hope) so now CCP give to us compensation,multi skiling train mode in active account i mean som plan skill can swich to second skill after finish primary skill withaut login to game :D why i propose that? because som ppl with multiple account hate login every 5min to other acc to change skill.
Thank you CCP for read,your sick hardcore player.
Oxy
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Loyal Servant
Caldari PURE Legion Pure.
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Posted - 2008.10.14 05:24:00 -
[937]
Originally by: Serenity Steele Surely 30 pages in 24hrs is a record on the forums?
Try 13 hours.
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Haldane Fisher
Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2008.10.14 05:24:00 -
[938]
Originally by: Serenity Steele Surely 30 pages in 24hrs is a record on the forums?
I really can't understand what all the whining is about, considering that the minimum period of game time you can buy is 1 month anyway.
That must mean keeping an account alive 50% of the time - and for what? So you can sell it at a later date for profit?
So you're $ cost for ISK purchase has declined. My heart bleeds.
Its closer to 70 if you include the locked thread.
And you don't get it.
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ATARI BABY
Lords Of Guile
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Posted - 2008.10.14 05:25:00 -
[939]
Originally by: lceman Edited by: lceman on 14/10/2008 05:24:13 lol thats the only thing i can say, how can you truly belive that the amount of close subscription is not the direct result of you changing the price and the gtc.
Now this "ghost" training you socalled fancy called is nothing mere than people saying that you guys are pushing it to the limit, either listen og be sure that this avalanche is really gonna hit you guys hard.
Second thing: power of 2, seriously when is the old fatefull gamers gonna reak any benefiets give people possiblety of grouping their accounts and get a discount pr account.
my 2 cents.
this is not about price bro. cant you see?
LIE |
KeratinBoy
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.10.14 05:25:00 -
[940]
Originally by: Serenity Steele Surely 30 pages in 24hrs is a record on the forums?
I really can't understand what all the whining is about, considering that the minimum period of game time you can buy is 1 month anyway.
That must mean keeping an account alive 50% of the time - and for what? So you can sell it at a later date for profit?
So you're $ cost for ISK purchase has declined. My heart bleeds.
People are annoyed by the lying moreso than the change. Which you'd have noticed if you gave the thread more than a summary glance.
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Revoluti0nx
Invicta.
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Posted - 2008.10.14 05:26:00 -
[941]
Its false advertisement, Read the Guide
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Mr Banzai
Caldari Rogue Squadron
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Posted - 2008.10.14 05:26:00 -
[942]
Hah, wanna guess why exactly there is a sudden surge in ghost training? That's the accounts which are being dropped because you guys messed up the old GTC system. Loads and loads of alt and even some main accounts which can't afford new prices, so they was left to expire and owners just set a long skill to train in hope for some brighter future. Now wanna guess what exactly this new patch does? It kills that possible brighter future. You seriousely think it will force owners to pay? No, majority will just say "fine, screw it" and never renew again, there is no point now. If anything, this will provoke more character trades, but since everyone will be selling - it's just gonna mess up another market.
Sorry guys, i love you and i love Eve, but this is another really bad idea since GTC change. When you change in-game balance - it will pass and people will adapt eventually, even if everyone is whining. But this changes, they're preventing some people from playing Eve altogether. You're losing us, your players, please rethink this over.
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Alexander Ronay
Crushed Ambitions
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Posted - 2008.10.14 05:26:00 -
[943]
Originally by: Annaphera However, at this point I find myself (childishly, I admit) unwilling to bend because some people are so flipping outraged that CCP DARES to change something that - despite protests to the contrary - was never used by CCP to sell the game, nor promised as a feature. I've also been called names for daring to hold a minority opinion, which always puts my back up.
Hmmm, then what do you call what is in the players guide, regarding "ghost training"?
I don't know about you, but before I signed up, I read the player's guide. It seemed like a pretty good list of features. Seemed like a selling point of the game to me. Especially since the guide was suggested reading. Now they're calling it a bug.
The part that worries me is, what else in that list are they going to start scratching off without warning?
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Lysander Kaldenn
Viper Intel Squad Sons of Tangra
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Posted - 2008.10.14 05:27:00 -
[944]
You pay for a game... so you play a game... why should you benefit from lapsing payment? Pay for the game or quit. No one will miss you if you leave. One less baby crying on the forums.
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Triksterism
Gallente Frozen Corpse Inspection Services United Federation of Capsuleers
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Posted - 2008.10.14 05:28:00 -
[945]
BEHOLD! THE GHOST TRAIN! ---------------------------------------
Feature. Bug. Hurf durf. |
algorythm
Minmatar Evolution Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.10.14 05:28:00 -
[946]
This is how I see it: There were people who really took advantage of this, and with the increase of longer skills, there were people who deliberately would indeed take a big advantage on this.
Well I play this game since.... Feb 2004, sometimes I get away from the computer for weeks, and my only worry is if I have a long skill set, now, on top of that, I will also have to check if the sub is payed, even though for that time I will not play the game. It used to be a gesture of good will on CCP who would understand this, and will no longer verify.
I don't like to just point the finger and say whats wrong, not without suggesting a couple solutions to make it less harsh and more acceptable.
Firs, really this is important, log in screen, after successful log in, put a counter there, on the char selection:
YOU HAVE 35 DAYS OF SUBSCRIPTION REMAINING this because people forget, I don't go to the website every day to check how many days I got left?! This would help to avoid surprises - its the least you can do!
Second, give it a margin. Everyone forgets stuff, damn, I only repay when I try to log in and there's eve says wakie wakie, time to repay - kinda like car fuel and the time to go to gas stations! To prevent people of staying without paying for long periods while long skills run, say, give it 15 days of skill running without payed subscription, its not a long time after all and would prevent this massive abuse you claim players do. In the mean time, send warning mails YOUR SUBSCRIPTION HAS BEEN INACTIVE FOR 10 DAYS SKILL WILL CEASE TRAINING IN 5, or well, in my case, I'm BoB, you have my msn
In the end, I would like to point out there is a major world crisis if you simply implement this measure, I'm sure people will stop playing at list with so many accounts, and in the end, you lose more. _________________________
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Catherine Frasier
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Posted - 2008.10.14 05:30:00 -
[947]
Originally by: Haldane Fisher
Originally by: Catherine Frasier Mandatory posting in oog forums under the byline of an ig character is one of the dumbest things CCP has done, tbh.
You don't like making people accountable for what they say in game or out?
That's one hell of a stretch. People are accountable in-game for what they say in-game. (Smack = dec) People are accountable in-game for what they say in in-game forums. (Where post-with-your-main is required.) People are accountable out-of-game for what they say in out-of-game forums. (Forum moderators enforce forum rules).
What I am opposed to is YOU deciding what I should or should not say about the game and enforcing that by in-game actions. My right to speak here as a paying Eve player should not be curtailed in any way shape or form by some other player simply because he doesn't agree with me.
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Joskken Inx
PURE Legion Pure.
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Posted - 2008.10.14 05:30:00 -
[948]
God with the apologists and "can I has ur stuff lol less people"
It is a feature. It's in the official players guide. Dropping this change, with less than 48 hours to go, isn't just a small part of the problem.
It's that CCP chose to announce what is not a bug as being a bug, and that they needed to "fix" it now. There are huge, glaring problems with Eve that tossing money at will not fix if that's the angle. There are, very much so many other issues that have been tabled, or the focus has been changed or ignored. Now, the selling point-and there's no way of saying it's not-that makes Eve not a 100% grindfest skill***** MMO-is a "Bug". I'd like to see the powerpoints and spreadsheets that CCP has that show some sort of breakout revenue generator this was sold to be.
You told us we could set a long skill and take a break. We did, and do. Now you're saying pay to play all the way. Well, what's to come back to now except that little notion that hey, no matter how bad my experience with Eve is or has been, at least I won't fall behind in the tiny department of skillpoints.
Totally skipping over the more pressing questions of inactive RP, market crap, all of which amount to something more pressing than the "unbalance" a paying customer who goes inactive then comes back to have one more tick on his skillpoints would upset.
Tell me...oh wait, you won't.
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Haldane Fisher
Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2008.10.14 05:30:00 -
[949]
Originally by: Lysander Kaldenn You pay for a game... so you play a game... why should you benefit from lapsing payment? Pay for the game or quit. No one will miss you if you leave. One less baby crying on the forums.
Try reading the thread. So far pretty much everyone who jumped to the reply button with something like what you've said has been shown why they look foolish.
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Haldane Fisher
Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2008.10.14 05:32:00 -
[950]
Originally by: Catherine Frasier
Originally by: Haldane Fisher
Originally by: Catherine Frasier Mandatory posting in oog forums under the byline of an ig character is one of the dumbest things CCP has done, tbh.
You don't like making people accountable for what they say in game or out?
That's one hell of a stretch. People are accountable in-game for what they say in-game. (Smack = dec) People are accountable in-game for what they say in in-game forums. (Where post-with-your-main is required.) People are accountable out-of-game for what they say in out-of-game forums. (Forum moderators enforce forum rules).
What I am opposed to is YOU deciding what I should or should not say about the game and enforcing that by in-game actions. My right to speak here as a paying Eve player should not be curtailed in any way shape or form by some other player simply because he doesn't agree with me.
Ah, I misread you're complaint. Feel free to post here on a noob char if you wish, your opinions will amount to just as much.
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Joskken Inx
PURE Legion Pure.
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Posted - 2008.10.14 05:32:00 -
[951]
Originally by: Lysander Kaldenn You pay for a game... so you play a game... why should you benefit from lapsing payment? Pay for the game or quit. No one will miss you if you leave. One less baby crying on the forums.
The whole "it's been a documented part of the Eve Online game as it has been for going on 5 years" part.
And thanks for equivocating this to "crying". Real good job there.
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INF Wonderwoman
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Posted - 2008.10.14 05:33:00 -
[952]
Originally by: Triksterism BEHOLD! THE GHOST TRAIN!
Thank you Ghost Train!!!
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Lysander Kaldenn
Viper Intel Squad Sons of Tangra
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Posted - 2008.10.14 05:33:00 -
[953]
This has been a long time coming. I paided for BC V and recon V. Why should you get to train them for free?
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Haldane Fisher
Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2008.10.14 05:34:00 -
[954]
Edited by: Haldane Fisher on 14/10/2008 05:33:54
Originally by: INF Wonderwoman
Originally by: Triksterism BEHOLD! THE GHOST TRAIN!
Thank you Ghost Train!!!
Truly a roflmao moment
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ATARI BABY
Lords Of Guile
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Posted - 2008.10.14 05:34:00 -
[955]
Originally by: INF Wonderwoman
Originally by: Triksterism BEHOLD! THE GHOST TRAIN!
Thank you Ghost Train!!!
no need to lie anyway.
LIE |
Seth Ruin
Minmatar Ominous Corp Ethereal Dawn
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Posted - 2008.10.14 05:34:00 -
[956]
Originally by: algorythm well, in my case, I'm BoB, you have my msn
I LOLed
But I agree wholeheartedly... CCP seems to be pulling this "fix" out of their asses. It is very obviously a hasty decision that has not been thought through at all. I would not be surprised if yesterday was the first time the majority of CCP staff heard of this change too. Some higher-up decided to get greedy, and now damage control is once again at critical, where it was some two years ago (almost same time of year, no less).
So tell us CCP: Your smoke and mirror tricks are getting old, and your member base is getting smart. Hell, most of us are completely unimpressed by your CSM bullcrap seeing as their opinions and your meetings with them hold no more weight than a random forum thread held before the CSM's inception.
Do you listen at all anymore?
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Triksterism
Gallente Frozen Corpse Inspection Services United Federation of Capsuleers
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Posted - 2008.10.14 05:34:00 -
[957]
Edited by: Triksterism on 14/10/2008 05:34:13
Originally by: Lysander Kaldenn This has been a long time coming. I paided for BC V and recon V. Why should you get to train them for free?
You had the option to ghost train them. You chose to pay for those months, some people didn't ---------------------------------------
Feature. Bug. Hurf durf. |
SkwisgaarSkwigelf
C.R.M Productions
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Posted - 2008.10.14 05:34:00 -
[958]
Originally by: Haldane Fisher Edited by: Haldane Fisher on 14/10/2008 05:33:54
Originally by: INF Wonderwoman
Originally by: Triksterism BEHOLD! THE GHOST TRAIN!
Thank you Ghost Train!!!
Truly a roflmao moment
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Catherine Frasier
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Posted - 2008.10.14 05:34:00 -
[959]
Originally by: Lysander Kaldenn You pay for a game... so you play a game... why should you benefit from lapsing payment? Pay for the game or quit. No one will miss you if you leave. One less baby crying on the forums.
Dead on. Now to kill ghost market orders, ghost research points, etc.
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StealthGerbils
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Posted - 2008.10.14 05:35:00 -
[960]
ANYONE FOR THIS CHANGE HAS DOWNS LOLLOL
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PinkMonkey Dragon
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Posted - 2008.10.14 05:36:00 -
[961]
removing this features is a case of ATOMIC stupidity.
first, the reason, CCP, that you are seeing a rise is this sort of thing is because of the F-up you made with GTC's. no one can afford the ****ing things anymore. which means, what you're seeing a rise of (accounts going inactive with skills training) is, in fact, people QUITTING with skills still training. they wont be coming back--ESPECIAILLY now.
you thought you were losing money before.. you'll lose MASSES of it now.
-1 account from me, and possibly all 3 if i cant keep the ISK running (and i wont).
enjoy
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Alexander Ronay
Crushed Ambitions
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Posted - 2008.10.14 05:37:00 -
[962]
Originally by: Seth Ruin
Originally by: algorythm well, in my case, I'm BoB, you have my msn
I LOLed
But I agree wholeheartedly... CCP seems to be pulling this "fix" out of their asses. It is very obviously a hasty decision that has not been thought through at all. I would not be surprised if yesterday was the first time the majority of CCP staff heard of this change too. Some higher-up decided to get greedy, and now damage control is once again at critical, where it was some two years ago (almost same time of year, no less).
So tell us CCP: Your smoke and mirror tricks are getting old, and your member base is getting smart. Hell, most of us are completely unimpressed by your CSM bullcrap seeing as their opinions and your meetings with them hold no more weight than a random forum thread held before the CSM's inception.
Do you listen at all anymore?
One of the best posts in this thread.
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Gig Malchura
Frozen Corpse Inspection Services United Federation of Capsuleers
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Posted - 2008.10.14 05:38:00 -
[963]
Originally by: INF Wonderwoman
Originally by: Triksterism BEHOLD! THE GHOST TRAIN!
Thank you Ghost Train!!!
Honestly, when you get to a level where you have to waist that much time training 1 skill and advance in absolutely NO other area is truly absurd. In order to have a RT training system as in eve, you have to implement something in order to make it so people will continue playing. Ghost training allowed for that. At this point, changing how the training system works will bring CCP even more heat considering the vast amount of accounts that's past that point of training.
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Haldane Fisher
Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2008.10.14 05:38:00 -
[964]
Edited by: Haldane Fisher on 14/10/2008 05:38:58 Quick, someone do a "****** finds out about ghost training being fixed" video.
insert *Guy who lead germany in ww2*
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Planning Committee
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Posted - 2008.10.14 05:39:00 -
[965]
I feel cheated by CCP.
Having multiple accounts, each with different skills, is a necessity for new players to be competitive with veterans who have played this game for up to 5 years. When people made their extra accounts, ghost training (particularly with good old 30-day timecards) was considered a part of the equation to consider this affordable. Forcing everyone to have a constant, ever-increasing subscription is basically a switch-and-bait scam.
If I have 5 accounts created under the assumption that it would cost me roughly $50 a month, then I'm still not going to pay $80 or $100 a month out of the blue to keep them, because that's ridiculous. I'm still going to pay no more than $50 on a few less accounts, but the net effect is that my game enjoyment is severely lessened. I'm incredibly disappointed in CCP and this game.
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Carsidava
Ars ex Discordia GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.10.14 05:40:00 -
[966]
Edited by: Carsidava on 14/10/2008 05:44:59 31 pages and no replies from CCP. 49 pages in the other thread, and only a devblog filled with lies. I post again:
Nope, sorry. This doesn't wash.
If you disable skill training for inactive accounts, why aren't you also disabling market orders from inactive accounts? Why aren't you also disabling RP accumulation from inactive accounts? Why aren't you disabling dividend payouts to inactive accounts?
Why are only skill points being hit?
Sorry CCP, this is an entirely unsatisfactory answer.
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Borg Zorg
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Posted - 2008.10.14 05:41:00 -
[967]
Originally by: Lysander Kaldenn This has been a long time coming. I paided for BC V and recon V. Why should you get to train them for free?
Cose till now it was game feature and if u did pay for something that was allso ment to be legaly free that is your problem dumm.bass. game do have it rules and till now thay did work this way. And this was why a lot of ppl did actualy come backt to eve after having a break and doing thier RL stuff(if u know whats RL). So please ,pay to play ,dumm basses keep paying and let the normal customers, who do pay atencion on products thay did pay to use,fight for your customers rights.OK?
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Kage Psychodin
Caldari The Empire Nation Worlds End Consortium
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Posted - 2008.10.14 05:42:00 -
[968]
Originally by: Carsidava 31 pages and no replies. 49 pages in the other thread, and only a devblog filled with lies. I post again:
Nope, sorry. This doesn't wash.
If you disable skill training for inactive accounts, why aren't you also disabling market orders from inactive accounts? Why aren't you also disabling RP accumulation from inactive accounts? Why aren't you disabling dividend payouts to inactive accounts?
Why are only skill points being hit?
Sorry CCP, this is an entirely unsatisfactory answer.
you do know they could do this, right? stop giving them ideas! Another one bites the dust. |
Alexander Ronay
Crushed Ambitions
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Posted - 2008.10.14 05:44:00 -
[969]
Originally by: Carsidava 31 pages and no replies. 49 pages in the other thread, and only a devblog filled with lies. I post again:
Nope, sorry. This doesn't wash.
If you disable skill training for inactive accounts, why aren't you also disabling market orders from inactive accounts? Why aren't you also disabling RP accumulation from inactive accounts? Why aren't you disabling dividend payouts to inactive accounts?
Why are only skill points being hit?
Sorry CCP, this is an entirely unsatisfactory answer.
Heh, well maybe they figured out they ****** their PR when they posted the dev blog like they did. Maybe they're giving their response a little more thought this time?
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SkwisgaarSkwigelf
C.R.M Productions
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Posted - 2008.10.14 05:45:00 -
[970]
Originally by: Alexander Ronay
Originally by: Carsidava 31 pages and no replies. 49 pages in the other thread, and only a devblog filled with lies. I post again:
Nope, sorry. This doesn't wash.
If you disable skill training for inactive accounts, why aren't you also disabling market orders from inactive accounts? Why aren't you also disabling RP accumulation from inactive accounts? Why aren't you disabling dividend payouts to inactive accounts?
Why are only skill points being hit?
Sorry CCP, this is an entirely unsatisfactory answer.
Heh, well maybe they figured out they ****** their PR when they posted the dev blog like they did. Maybe they're giving their response a little more thought this time?
well we can always hope...
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Sen Black
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Posted - 2008.10.14 05:45:00 -
[971]
http://www.eve-online.com/features/ "Exclusive offline skill advancement" So, it was a bug ? Exploit ?
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Triksterism
Gallente Frozen Corpse Inspection Services United Federation of Capsuleers
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Posted - 2008.10.14 05:46:00 -
[972]
Originally by: Alexander Ronay
Originally by: Carsidava 31 pages and no replies. 49 pages in the other thread, and only a devblog filled with lies. I post again:
Nope, sorry. This doesn't wash.
If you disable skill training for inactive accounts, why aren't you also disabling market orders from inactive accounts? Why aren't you also disabling RP accumulation from inactive accounts? Why aren't you disabling dividend payouts to inactive accounts?
Why are only skill points being hit?
Sorry CCP, this is an entirely unsatisfactory answer.
Heh, well maybe they figured out they ****** their PR when they posted the dev blog like they did. Maybe they're giving their response a little more thought this time?
Perhaps we'll get another humorous reference to snowflakes. -
Ghost Train & Snowflake |
NupetietVer
Neuro Cartographic Services
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Posted - 2008.10.14 05:46:00 -
[973]
Wow, they locked the other thread in a span of a couple hours?
As for the blog: "We make a product, sell it, get salaries and then continue maintaining the product and making it better"
WE PLAYERS DON'T HAVE SALARIES!
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Gig Malchura
Frozen Corpse Inspection Services United Federation of Capsuleers
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Posted - 2008.10.14 05:47:00 -
[974]
Originally by: SkwisgaarSkwigelf
Originally by: Alexander Ronay
Originally by: Carsidava 31 pages and no replies. 49 pages in the other thread, and only a devblog filled with lies. I post again:
Nope, sorry. This doesn't wash.
If you disable skill training for inactive accounts, why aren't you also disabling market orders from inactive accounts? Why aren't you also disabling RP accumulation from inactive accounts? Why aren't you disabling dividend payouts to inactive accounts?
Why are only skill points being hit?
Sorry CCP, this is an entirely unsatisfactory answer.
Heh, well maybe they figured out they ****** their PR when they posted the dev blog like they did. Maybe they're giving their response a little more thought this time?
well we can always hope...
I don't think there's much more thought left on this matter. Leave the training system as is and lets all be happy.
|
SkwisgaarSkwigelf
C.R.M Productions
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 05:47:00 -
[975]
Originally by: Triksterism
Perhaps we'll get another humorous reference to snowflakes.
I guess we can always hope for that too
|
Seth Ruin
Minmatar Ominous Corp Ethereal Dawn
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 05:47:00 -
[976]
Originally by: Alexander Ronay
Originally by: Carsidava 31 pages and no replies. 49 pages in the other thread, and only a devblog filled with lies. I post again:
Nope, sorry. This doesn't wash.
If you disable skill training for inactive accounts, why aren't you also disabling market orders from inactive accounts? Why aren't you also disabling RP accumulation from inactive accounts? Why aren't you disabling dividend payouts to inactive accounts?
Why are only skill points being hit?
Sorry CCP, this is an entirely unsatisfactory answer.
Heh, well maybe they figured out they ****** their PR when they posted the dev blog like they did. Maybe they're giving their response a little more thought this time?
Or... It wouldn't have anything to do with the fact it's 5:45AM in Rekjavik, would it? >.> I'd be very surprised if CCP posted any official response before the next downtime. As much as we're all "emoraging" against this decision, the devs still have to sleep some time
-- (CCP Inconsistency) |
Mymh Heretache
RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 05:47:00 -
[977]
CCP; I was backing you guys up in the original thread, was expecting this dev blog to mention the financial aspects on the game in long term when players are ghosttraining.
What you presented here, database load? That's nothing short of disappointing. I still think we players been "lucky" this bug existed for so long, and we have benefited from a mistake of yours, no doubt about it. But when fixing it you treated it really poorly. Announcement two days before the fix. Dev blog one day before the fix. And a poor argumentation behind it as well. You lost my support on this matter, doesn't help that you're right, it's merely about how you treat your customers.
|
INF Wonderwoman
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 05:47:00 -
[978]
Originally by: Sen Black http://www.eve-online.com/features/ "Exclusive offline skill advancement" So, it was a bug ? Exploit ?
Its been said before, but offline is not the same as inactive, the inactive portion is stated elsewhere.
|
Triksterism
Gallente Frozen Corpse Inspection Services United Federation of Capsuleers
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 05:49:00 -
[979]
Originally by: Mymh Heretache CCP; I was backing you guys up in the original thread, was expecting this dev blog to mention the financial aspects on the game in long term when players are ghosttraining.
What you presented here, database load? That's nothing short of disappointing. I still think we players been "lucky" this bug existed for so long, and we have benefited from a mistake of yours, no doubt about it. But when fixing it you treated it really poorly. Announcement two days before the fix. Dev blog one day before the fix. And a poor argumentation behind it as well. You lost my support on this matter, doesn't help that you're right, it's merely about how you treat your customers.
Snowflakes man! Snowflakes!
Originally by: wide Just to further illustrate how bad the dev blog's argument really is:
Quote: Now a single customer that doesn't log into the servers may not weigh heavily on our database infrastructure, just as a single snowflake isn't that heavy, hardly a measurable quantity. But it's hard not to notice an avalanche if it hits you. And that's what was starting to happen in our database.
Lets say a snow flake weighs 0.003 grams; there are 250,000 Eve accounts: 250,000 x 0.000003kg = 0.75kg.
Only the Icelandic elves could call that an avalanche.
---------------------------------------
Ghost Train! |
Juntar Solarwind
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 05:50:00 -
[980]
Originally by: INF Wonderwoman
Originally by: Juntar Solarwind Adapt and overcome. Get over it already and move on. Either pay to play or let your accounts lapse and don't come back. Pretty simple if you stop and think about it.
Yes, just step aside and let the "government" do what they want... This is a player based game and we have the right to say whats good or not. If you get someone in office that wants to blow up all of Asia, do you say adapt and overcome,just get over it? .... stupid.
Uhm.. we are comparing playing a game to running a country and blowing up another? CCP owns their game and can make whatever changes they like. We either like it or we don't and we either keep paying or we don't. Lets not make this out to be more than it is.
|
|
Zey Nadar
Gallente Heavily Utilized Mechanic Mayhem Einherjar Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 05:52:00 -
[981]
Edited by: Zey Nadar on 14/10/2008 05:51:53 This change is perfectly fine. Paying for a service should be a given.
edit: hooray for typos
|
PsychoBones II
R.E.C.O.N. The Firm.
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 05:52:00 -
[982]
Edited by: PsychoBones II on 14/10/2008 05:54:15
Originally by: Mymh Heretache CCP; I was backing you guys up in the original thread, was expecting this dev blog to mention the financial aspects on the game in long term when players are ghosttraining.
What you presented here, database load? That's nothing short of disappointing. I still think we players been "lucky" this bug existed for so long, and we have benefited from a mistake of yours, no doubt about it. But when fixing it you treated it really poorly. Announcement two days before the fix. Dev blog one day before the fix. And a poor argumentation behind it as well. You lost my support on this matter, doesn't help that you're right, it's merely about how you treat your customers.
Absolutely
Edited because I managed to get a typo in a one word post.
Quit banning me. |
EnslaverOfMinmatar
Yarsk Hunters DeaDSpace Coalition
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 05:53:00 -
[983]
rofl @ ghost train
Skills continue training even if you are logged off or if your account is inactive (in the second scenario you can't change skill tr |
Beachura
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 05:54:00 -
[984]
In my scenario:
I used to train up to 4 accounts with ghost training... but now i will stop that. this means CCP will get money for only 1 account instead of getting money for 2.5 accounts (1 100% active & 3 50% active). The good thing for CCP is that I now have to move my chars to my main account this will result in an instant 60$ for CCP, bad thing for CCP is a loss of 22.50$ per month.
|
HuntedMaster
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 05:54:00 -
[985]
In all this talk about fairness you have completly stripped me of mine...someones alt has had 5 years of ghost training while my new alt gets none?...BS
please...your statements are pathetic if you expect players like me... who play and grind in your game each and everyday for hours and hours .. to swallow that load of BS...
I allready pay for one account that is always active.....im trying to develop another account (which so far has been nothing but active) that i can do something diffrent with that still costs me plenty of CASH....so i have to grind all the way with him again aswell... BS
You dont really care about your serious players do you CCP...
I think your greed may just net you less money then you think it might....and i for one really hope it does do that...
I was looking forward to having a diffrent races alt to play with...but quite frankly i dont want to give you the money now you grubby handed money vacuums .
Theres NOTHING wrong with a business wanting to make money...
But when you shaft loyal players who love your game and who probably support it monetary wise more then they really can afford, at the detriment of time they could possibly use for other things in life like family (and it is all about OUR time CCP of which apparantly you think we need to pay more for).... then theres something wrong and not just on a corporate level , but on a personal level...
Respect your community CCP..
Because thats what makes your game , not god damn pixels on a screen.
For shame .
|
Delos Harriman
Whiskey Tango Foxtrot
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 05:55:00 -
[986]
Originally by: Triksterism
Snowflakes man! Snowflakes!
My proposal for the first medal instituted in-game.
|
Revoluti0nx
Invicta.
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 05:55:00 -
[987]
No.
|
INF Wonderwoman
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 05:56:00 -
[988]
Originally by: Juntar Solarwind
Originally by: INF Wonderwoman
Originally by: Juntar Solarwind Adapt and overcome. Get over it already and move on. Either pay to play or let your accounts lapse and don't come back. Pretty simple if you stop and think about it.
Yes, just step aside and let the "government" do what they want... This is a player based game and we have the right to say whats good or not. If you get someone in office that wants to blow up all of Asia, do you say adapt and overcome,just get over it? .... stupid.
Uhm.. we are comparing playing a game to running a country and blowing up another? CCP owns their game and can make whatever changes they like. We either like it or we don't and we either keep paying or we don't. Lets not make this out to be more than it is.
I'm not saying its a country, just pointing out that you maybe willing to step aside and let this game go, but we as players have an option to discuss our opinions and actually have a chance, how ever small it maybe, to change there decision. So by all means, step aside, I will not.
|
Alexander Ronay
Crushed Ambitions
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 05:56:00 -
[989]
Originally by: Triksterism
Originally by: Mymh Heretache CCP; I was backing you guys up in the original thread, was expecting this dev blog to mention the financial aspects on the game in long term when players are ghosttraining.
What you presented here, database load? That's nothing short of disappointing. I still think we players been "lucky" this bug existed for so long, and we have benefited from a mistake of yours, no doubt about it. But when fixing it you treated it really poorly. Announcement two days before the fix. Dev blog one day before the fix. And a poor argumentation behind it as well. You lost my support on this matter, doesn't help that you're right, it's merely about how you treat your customers.
Snowflakes man! Snowflakes!
Originally by: wide Just to further illustrate how bad the dev blog's argument really is:
Quote: Now a single customer that doesn't log into the servers may not weigh heavily on our database infrastructure, just as a single snowflake isn't that heavy, hardly a measurable quantity. But it's hard not to notice an avalanche if it hits you. And that's what was starting to happen in our database.
Lets say a snow flake weighs 0.003 grams; there are 250,000 Eve accounts: 250,000 x 0.000003kg = 0.75kg.
Only the Icelandic elves could call that an avalanche.
Next thing you know they'll say this is what causes server lag and file it under their need for speed initiative.
|
Triksterism
Gallente Frozen Corpse Inspection Services United Federation of Capsuleers
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 05:56:00 -
[990]
Originally by: Delos Harriman
Originally by: Triksterism
Snowflakes man! Snowflakes!
My proposal for the first medal instituted in-game.
Ahahaha, nice one :) ---------------------------------------
Ghost Train |
|
Borg Zorg
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 05:57:00 -
[991]
But recently we have seen a surge in this behavior in a way that we were essentially supporting and maintaining a large number of customers that weren't paying us regular subscriptions. That's not fair towards CCP as a service provider and it's not fair towards other players that pay a subscription but don't make use of this bug.
Torfi Frans Olafsson
Senior Producer of EVE Online HAHAHAHAHA supporting and maintaining a large number of customers that weren't paying What kind of suport is he talking abouth????? maintaining acount???? Must be hell of job out there,probabli ccp have like so many problems paying all the emplois that r working on maintainenc of not activ acounts,so that is where thay r losing money. If we only know that before,i woud ask u that u make me responsabile of maintaining my inactiv acount and u woud not have to pay a guy that is maintaining my one.Actualy do u pay 1 emploi for maintenc of each inactiv acount???What do thay do while im inactiv? Clean the dust in my hangar? Watch over my market orders? OHhhhh i get it. Thay r training my skills for me while im offf.Cose normali whan i pay acount it is me ,personaly learning skills.I remeber whan i did studi for 27 day heavy dronse lvl5. I was all over that book,reading it,taking notes,so much information abouth the dronse.But whith help of lot of coffe and my supreme memory i did learn all the book.And gaind activli and bieng on line my heavy dronse lvl5 skill. WTF.
|
Lysander Kaldenn
Viper Intel Squad Sons of Tangra
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 05:58:00 -
[992]
Edited by: Lysander Kaldenn on 14/10/2008 05:58:44 Edited by: Lysander Kaldenn on 14/10/2008 05:58:13
Originally by: Borg Zorg
Originally by: Lysander Kaldenn This has been a long time coming. I paided for BC V and recon V. Why should you get to train them for free?
Cose till now it was game feature and if u did pay for something that was allso ment to be legaly free that is your problem dumm.bass. game do have it rules and till now thay did work this way. And this was why a lot of ppl did actualy come backt to eve after having a break and doing thier RL stuff(if u know whats RL). So please ,pay to play ,dumm basses keep paying and let the normal customers, who do pay atencion on products thay did pay to use,fight for your customers rights.OK?
One: WTF are you even saying?
TWO: game features get changed everyday... In fact half of you have probably been posting in "Nerf the Nanos" threads. I'll tell you what you told them. You exploited a game mechanic to get something you didn't deserve. Now it's being changed. Adapt. Quit. Who cares?
|
Velda Chulai
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 05:59:00 -
[993]
Edited by: Velda Chulai on 14/10/2008 05:59:10 Ok guys, lets man up and vote with our wallets. My ballots don't hit until December and January.
Who else has placed their votes?
|
lceman
Gallente Destructive Influence Band of Brothers
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 05:59:00 -
[994]
I belive that ccp is taking the wrong path, Although i accept ccp is a business and that some times you have to raise prices, the gtc changes has now bit you in the arse and now forcing people to activate there accounts or dont get sp. Is another bad decision on top of another.
Be carefull, you might loose more than you gain.
Sometimes your inablityes to connect to your playerbase amazes.
CCP: Your cutting away all the things that makes eve unique and special, be carefull.
If what not is, what is ?. |
Raquel Trotter
Trotters Independent Trading
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 05:59:00 -
[995]
Edited by: Raquel Trotter on 14/10/2008 05:59:48
Originally by: Sen Black http://www.eve-online.com/features/ "Exclusive offline skill advancement" So, it was a bug ? Exploit ?
Screenshot for when they ninja edit it:
http://dl.eve-files.com/media/0810/-20081014015643.jpg
|
Zey Nadar
Gallente Heavily Utilized Mechanic Mayhem Einherjar Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 06:00:00 -
[996]
Originally by: ATARI BABY Edited by: ATARI BABY on 14/10/2008 05:20:47 this size of LIE must live forever.
Can you find where they said this "feature" was intended? If not, it is not a lie since they never claimed it.
|
Kallisto Black
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 06:00:00 -
[997]
CCP, you had your chance to be honest on this issue, to not try and play your playerbase for fools and lie about your motives behind the change.
We know it's about the money, your underlying language, and the only intended impact it would have for you is about the money.
We know this has always been a known feature of the game, prominently explained in your very OWN game guide explaining how skill training works.
Quote: Skills continue training even if you are logged off or if your account is inactive (in the second scenario you can't change skill training, though).
Source: http://www.eve-online.com/guide/en/g615.asp
Now the economy goes **** up, and one profit making tweak to the game suddenly is declared a bug after over 4 years of being in the game? That it's not "fair" to other players who "pay"?
If you wanted to make the game more FAIR, why didn't you just speed up skill training by 50% while players are actively subscribed?
Why do you think your playerbase is so ticked about this and you're losing support quicker than SoE and their NGE changes?
#1. You lied to us. #2 Passive skill training in a game this expansive that relies on players to wait 30-45+ real time days for FILLER pre-req skills is NOT fun, nor reasonable. #3 Everyone needs a reason to return to the game after burning out, having that one new skill finished as you come back to try something out new, that was a huge welcome back feature. #4 That was a selling feature for MANY players, new and old alike. #5 As other players have pointed out this move is hypocritical as long as you allow other unsubbed activities that allow players to earn money, and the fact you allow GTC to ISK sales, another activity that hurts hard working normal players that 'play' the game.
This is an unmitigated PR disaster with severe consequences to your service. It won't be long till the gaming news sites and blogs get ahold of this as well. |
Zey Nadar
Gallente Heavily Utilized Mechanic Mayhem Einherjar Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 06:02:00 -
[998]
Originally by: Raquel Trotter Edited by: Raquel Trotter on 14/10/2008 05:59:48
Originally by: Sen Black http://www.eve-online.com/features/ "Exclusive offline skill advancement" So, it was a bug ? Exploit ?
Screenshot for when they ninja edit it:
http://dl.eve-files.com/media/0810/-20081014015643.jpg
OFFLINE is NOT the same as NOT SUBSCRIBING
|
Alexander Ronay
Crushed Ambitions
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 06:03:00 -
[999]
Originally by: Borg Zorg But recently we have seen a surge in this behavior in a way that we were essentially supporting and maintaining a large number of customers that weren't paying us regular subscriptions. That's not fair towards CCP as a service provider and it's not fair towards other players that pay a subscription but don't make use of this bug.
Torfi Frans Olafsson
Senior Producer of EVE Online HAHAHAHAHA supporting and maintaining a large number of customers that weren't paying What kind of suport is he talking abouth????? maintaining acount???? Must be hell of job out there,probabli ccp have like so many problems paying all the emplois that r working on maintainenc of not activ acounts,so that is where thay r losing money. If we only know that before,i woud ask u that u make me responsabile of maintaining my inactiv acount and u woud not have to pay a guy that is maintaining my one.Actualy do u pay 1 emploi for maintenc of each inactiv acount???What do thay do while im inactiv? Clean the dust in my hangar? Watch over my market orders? OHhhhh i get it. Thay r training my skills for me while im offf.Cose normali whan i pay acount it is me ,personaly learning skills.I remeber whan i did studi for 27 day heavy dronse lvl5. I was all over that book,reading it,taking notes,so much information abouth the dronse.But whith help of lot of coffe and my supreme memory i did learn all the book.And gaind activli and bieng on line my heavy dronse lvl5 skill. WTF.
This post made me lol. But it is true, sadly. CCP seems to take us for mindless dolts.
|
HuntedMaster
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 06:03:00 -
[1000]
Originally by: Juntar Solarwind
Originally by: INF Wonderwoman
Originally by: Juntar Solarwind Adapt and overcome. Get over it already and move on. Either pay to play or let your accounts lapse and don't come back. Pretty simple if you stop and think about it.
Yes, just step aside and let the "government" do what they want... This is a player based game and we have the right to say whats good or not. If you get someone in office that wants to blow up all of Asia, do you say adapt and overcome,just get over it? .... stupid.
Uhm.. we are comparing playing a game to running a country and blowing up another? CCP owns their game and can make whatever changes they like. We either like it or we don't and we either keep paying or we don't. Lets not make this out to be more than it is.
So people who support something , and actually make something what it is shouldnt speak up?...And give CCP the oppurtunty for feed back and a chance to change something that a large number of players dont like before implementing it.?
Go find some nice communism to keep you warm.
|
|
ATARI BABY
Lords Of Guile
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 06:04:00 -
[1001]
Originally by: Raquel Trotter Edited by: Raquel Trotter on 14/10/2008 05:59:48
Originally by: Sen Black http://www.eve-online.com/features/ "Exclusive offline skill advancement" So, it was a bug ? Exploit ?
Screenshot for when they ninja edit it:
http://dl.eve-files.com/media/0810/-20081014015643.jpg
how aobut this:
LIE |
Catherine Frasier
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 06:04:00 -
[1002]
Originally by: Kallisto Black We know this has always been a known feature of the game, prominently explained in your very OWN game guide explaining how skill training works.
Quote: Skills continue training even if you are logged off or if your account is inactive (in the second scenario you can't change skill training, though).
That was true when written. It is still true.
Very soon they will change it and I'm sure they'll change the guide too.
Where's the lie?
|
Raquel Trotter
Trotters Independent Trading
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 06:05:00 -
[1003]
Originally by: Zey Nadar
OFFLINE is NOT the same as NOT SUBSCRIBING
OK, I'll give you that.. but still the use guide clearly states
"Skills continue training even if you are logged off or if your account is inactive (in the second scenario you can't change skill training, though)."
|
INF Wonderwoman
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 06:05:00 -
[1004]
Originally by: HuntedMaster
Originally by: Juntar Solarwind
Originally by: INF Wonderwoman
Originally by: Juntar Solarwind Adapt and overcome. Get over it already and move on. Either pay to play or let your accounts lapse and don't come back. Pretty simple if you stop and think about it.
Yes, just step aside and let the "government" do what they want... This is a player based game and we have the right to say whats good or not. If you get someone in office that wants to blow up all of Asia, do you say adapt and overcome,just get over it? .... stupid.
Uhm.. we are comparing playing a game to running a country and blowing up another? CCP owns their game and can make whatever changes they like. We either like it or we don't and we either keep paying or we don't. Lets not make this out to be more than it is.
So people who support something , and actually make something what it is shouldnt speak up?...And give CCP the oppurtunty for feed back and a chance to change something that a large number of players dont like before implementing it.?
Go find some nice communism to keep you warm.
lawled
|
Triksterism
Gallente Frozen Corpse Inspection Services United Federation of Capsuleers
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 06:06:00 -
[1005]
Originally by: Catherine Frasier
Originally by: Kallisto Black We know this has always been a known feature of the game, prominently explained in your very OWN game guide explaining how skill training works.
Quote: Skills continue training even if you are logged off or if your account is inactive (in the second scenario you can't change skill training, though).
That was true when written. It is still true.
Very soon they will change it and I'm sure they'll change the guide too.
Where's the lie?
Though it pains me, I feel I should say this before someone else does....*sigh* the cake is a lie.
I apologize. ---------------------------------------
Ghost Train |
Bukkaboo
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 06:06:00 -
[1006]
The failure is strong in this thread I sense.
Thanks ccp for step by step destroying those things that brought me to play eve at the first place.
What to expect next? We have to pay for every patch and expansion you make?
Anyhow the positive side of this is that no longer have I the need to think getting a second account!
I really hope you reconsider and listen the playerbase rather than let the sh*t flow.
|
Map Screen
Flat Earth Society
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 06:06:00 -
[1007]
Originally by: Liranan
Originally by: Triksterism
So, for those of you who are for this removal of 'ghost training' -- Why? It's not like you can't do it all the same as the rest of the players in EvE. Anyone can ghost train so perhaps I fail to see the 'imbalance' -- Not to mention ghost training really isnt hurting anyone, it simply isn't squeezing as much money as possible out of everyone but it DOES make A LOT of people happy (or at least content) and hence, they stay subbed.
Age? I'm 30, what does that tell you? And I'm against Ghost Training. I know what you mean but you will find people of all ages for and against it, though from your post I get the hint you're saying younger players are more prone to be for it than older players.
Ghost training does cost CCP money because you pay for one month, set skill, disable account, log in three weeks later, change skill, disable account. A one month time card could last months this way and, I agree with CCP, it is not good for business.
I will repeat myself again. The problem of the majority of the posters is not about Ghost Training but about the lies spun by CCP.
You apparently don't get how billing works.
|
Catherine Frasier
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 06:07:00 -
[1008]
Originally by: ATARI BABY
Originally by: Raquel Trotter Edited by: Raquel Trotter on 14/10/2008 05:59:48
Originally by: Sen Black http://www.eve-online.com/features/ "Exclusive offline skill advancement" So, it was a bug ? Exploit ?
Screenshot for when they ninja edit it:
http://dl.eve-files.com/media/0810/-20081014015643.jpg
how aobut this:
"Offline skill advancement" is still perfectly accurate and not affected by this change.
|
Aenemah
Gallente
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 06:07:00 -
[1009]
[Quote=CCP] We truly hope that the community will understand our actions and continue to enjoy playing EVE as much as we enjoy making it.
Let's see. We don't understand - or at least we understand but won't get along with it.
It has been said here, and will be said again: A specific feature like this one had the power to bring BACK players who just wanted/had to take a break. Without it, what you call balancing of an unfair bug will just: 1- Disable many many many alt accounts (Hey look at my alt training all those unending Lv V skills, useless but to access further skills...)
2- Discourage many many players from going back to the game after a break (seriously, what's 17 days of training compared to a 4 month break followed by 7 months of paid play? Now I guess you won't have these "comebackers")
3-Probably make some players happy, because they pay every month of every year since the born of Eve... because they don't care paying even when they don't play, or maybe s/o pay ofr them.
4- This will begin to create the gap. The gap between hardcore and softcore players. The ineluctable gap, which lead many of us to Eve as it simply didn't exist. From now, s/o with RL occupations that needs to be away for months will be totally f*cked. (more about OFFLINE training, but still...)
As said in the 49 pages post, it's just not only about the ghost training. But all this incitation around multiple accounts, then GTC's, then this. It feels like Eve is changing, that Eve is getting BACK to the level of other MMO's on the market.
I shortly have to take a break while my job takes me abroard for months, and planned some things to make my main character take a great step into the game : Capital combat ships. I guess i won't.
_ Veni, Vidi, Warpi. I came, I saw, I warped the hell out... |
Borg Zorg
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 06:08:00 -
[1010]
Originally by: Lysander Kaldenn Edited by: Lysander Kaldenn on 14/10/2008 05:58:44 Edited by: Lysander Kaldenn on 14/10/2008 05:58:13
Originally by: Borg Zorg
Originally by: Lysander Kaldenn This has been a long time coming. I paided for BC V and recon V. Why should you get to train them for free?
Cose till now it was game feature and if u did pay for something that was allso ment to be legaly free that is your problem dumm.bass. game do have it rules and till now thay did work this way. And this was why a lot of ppl did actualy come backt to eve after having a break and doing thier RL stuff(if u know whats RL). So please ,pay to play ,dumm basses keep paying and let the normal customers, who do pay atencion on products thay did pay to use,fight for your customers rights.OK?
One: WTF are you even saying?
TWO: game features get changed everyday... In fact half of you have probably been posting in "Nerf the Nanos" threads. I'll tell you what you told them. You exploited a game mechanic to get something you didn't deserve. Now it's being changed. Adapt. Quit. Who cares?
If someone is using game mechanich in the way game do alows u that means that person is actualy plaing game.So that is not exploit. Im against nano nerf cose nano r not broken,there is just a bounch of ppl whith no imagination that r not abel do improvise in game.As nano is strongli relatid to pvp that means that ppl who wants to nerf nano r guys which dont know how to stop nano ship,and that means realy bad pvp-ers.And that means ,dummb basses. And quit that skit of your adapt and that crap.this thread is abouth crying on CCP crapy politics relatid to thier customers.You dont have nothing to complain abouth cosu u will adapt even if toomorov CCP delits all your SP,cose you are thrue warrior and u r going to survive.Live us less tuff guys cry a bit abouth things we do consider wrong.OK
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Alexander Ronay
Crushed Ambitions
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Posted - 2008.10.14 06:08:00 -
[1011]
Originally by: Triksterism
Originally by: Catherine Frasier
Originally by: Kallisto Black We know this has always been a known feature of the game, prominently explained in your very OWN game guide explaining how skill training works.
Quote: Skills continue training even if you are logged off or if your account is inactive (in the second scenario you can't change skill training, though).
That was true when written. It is still true.
Very soon they will change it and I'm sure they'll change the guide too.
Where's the lie?
Though it pains me, I feel I should say this before someone else does....*sigh* the cake is a lie.
I apologize.
I'm really surprised I haven't seen anyone else say it yet.
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Clone 231A
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Posted - 2008.10.14 06:08:00 -
[1012]
Originally by: Lysander Kaldenn above
Two things.
1) Some of the devs themselves have stated this feature was worth it merely for ensuring players return, and as it took NO DEVELOPER RESOURCES, was not a drain on anything. It was shortly after the dragon release, and they have said as much back in the very early days when this was first discovered. It lent value to the game, and became a documented feature. CCP IS LYING.
It wouldn't be such a big deal if it weren't the sniveling nickle pinching morons who are killing this game, rather than the UO griefers who created it, that were doing this. Management just gets in the way and f's everything up, every time.
2)Try having an original thought. Blind obedience and loyalty is ignorant. |
Tunnas
Amarr Delusions 0f Grandeur G00DFELLAS
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Posted - 2008.10.14 06:09:00 -
[1013]
Originally by: P Lansdale
Originally by: Avon Hey, your bug...
Skills continue training even if you are logged off or if your account is inactive
I found it in the player guide.
You guys better get in there and ninja-edit it.
QFE
QFT
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Tito Sajic
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Posted - 2008.10.14 06:09:00 -
[1014]
Originally by: Catherine Frasier
Originally by: Kallisto Black We know this has always been a known feature of the game, prominently explained in your very OWN game guide explaining how skill training works.
Quote: Skills continue training even if you are logged off or if your account is inactive (in the second scenario you can't change skill training, though).
That was true when written. It is still true.
Very soon they will change it and I'm sure they'll change the guide too.
Where's the lie?
BUG...
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Karanth
Gallente Eve's Brothers of Destiny FOUNDATI0N
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Posted - 2008.10.14 06:09:00 -
[1015]
Originally by: Carsidava 31 pages and no replies. 49 pages in the other thread, and only a devblog filled with lies. I post again:
Nope, sorry. This doesn't wash.
If you disable skill training for inactive accounts, why aren't you also disabling market orders from inactive accounts? Why aren't you also disabling RP accumulation from inactive accounts? Why aren't you disabling dividend payouts to inactive accounts?
Why are only skill points being hit?
Sorry CCP, this is an entirely unsatisfactory answer.
I would rather RP accumulation be removed too. But what happens in the case of a dividend? That portion of the shares is ignored, or what? Same with market orders.
As long as it doesn't affect anyone else, I'm all in favour of disabling stuff. But when it means things are different by their absence, I think that's a good line.
---
Wheel of Whineage |
EnslaverOfMinmatar
Yarsk Hunters DeaDSpace Coalition
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Posted - 2008.10.14 06:10:00 -
[1016]
Originally by: Borg Zorg
Thay r training my skills for me while im offf.Cose normali whan i pay acount it is me ,personaly learning skills.I remeber whan i did studi for 27 day heavy dronse lvl5. I was all over that book,reading it,taking notes,so much information abouth the dronse.But whith help of lot of coffe and my supreme memory i did learn all the book.And gaind activli and bieng on line my heavy dronse lvl5 skill. WTF.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHHHHHHAHAHAHAHAH this is hilarious shiit
Skills continue training even if you are logged off or if your account is inactive (in the second scenario you can't change skill tr |
Joskken Inx
PURE Legion Pure.
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Posted - 2008.10.14 06:13:00 -
[1017]
Originally by: Borg Zorg
Originally by: Lysander Kaldenn Edited by: Lysander Kaldenn on 14/10/2008 05:58:44 Edited by: Lysander Kaldenn on 14/10/2008 05:58:13
Originally by: Borg Zorg
Originally by: Lysander Kaldenn This has been a long time coming. I paided for BC V and recon V. Why should you get to train them for free?
Cose till now it was game feature and if u did pay for something that was allso ment to be legaly free that is your problem dumm.bass. game do have it rules and till now thay did work this way. And this was why a lot of ppl did actualy come backt to eve after having a break and doing thier RL stuff(if u know whats RL). So please ,pay to play ,dumm basses keep paying and let the normal customers, who do pay atencion on products thay did pay to use,fight for your customers rights.OK?
One: WTF are you even saying?
TWO: game features get changed everyday... In fact half of you have probably been posting in "Nerf the Nanos" threads. I'll tell you what you told them. You exploited a game mechanic to get something you didn't deserve. Now it's being changed. Adapt. Quit. Who cares?
If someone is using game mechanich in the way game do alows u that means that person is actualy plaing game.So that is not exploit. Im against nano nerf cose nano r not broken,there is just a bounch of ppl whith no imagination that r not abel do improvise in game.As nano is strongli relatid to pvp that means that ppl who wants to nerf nano r guys which dont know how to stop nano ship,and that means realy bad pvp-ers.And that means ,dummb basses. And quit that skit of your adapt and that crap.this thread is abouth crying on CCP crapy politics relatid to thier customers.You dont have nothing to complain abouth cosu u will adapt even if toomorov CCP delits all your SP,cose you are thrue warrior and u r going to survive.Live us less tuff guys cry a bit abouth things we do consider wrong.OK
The nano issue will not be fixed. It does break the game. Or you think that the answer to that is "disregard using missiles in PvP"?
I'm adding this to my sig since it seems a few people think we're somehow making up 50 pages of this over "nothing but a bug"
"Skills continue training even if you are logged off or if your account is inactive (in the second scenario you can't change skill training, though)." "Skills continue training even if you are logged off or if your account is inactive (in the second scenario you can't change skill training, though)." |
Valhalla Shank
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Posted - 2008.10.14 06:14:00 -
[1018]
In all reality its a good thing for every one, especially those who are new to the game. I have only one account that is active and wish to activate a second, i think if you have an issue witht he "bug" being changed then mabey you should go to work next week and not get paid for it. CCP like evry one else in the world is just making a buck, or heaps of bucks. So what is you cant train or use there facilities without paying anymore, and if you feel it was a selling point for the game then your playing for the wrong reasons. I say good on ya ccp, and all other complaints can pick up the phone and call some one who cares.
SHANK
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Peter VonThal
Raygun Technologies
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Posted - 2008.10.14 06:14:00 -
[1019]
Exclusive video of CCP devs looking through the character database and discovering expired accounts and ghost training alts.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oW8sKI6C4D0
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Delos Harriman
Whiskey Tango Foxtrot
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Posted - 2008.10.14 06:14:00 -
[1020]
Originally by: Kallisto Black
This is an unmitigated PR disaster with severe consequences to your service. It won't be long till the gaming news sites and blogs get ahold of this as well.
Already out there.
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Moostang
DarkStar 1 GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.10.14 06:14:00 -
[1021]
Trend eh? Does it match the trend in people having to let their accounts lapse because GTC's are now 500m for only 60 days of time...I bet so. 500m for 60 days vs 350m for 90 days....yea...pay more for less...that's the CCP motto....
Perhaps if you capped 60 day gtc's to 400m you'd get more active accounts again. I alone had to cancel 2 accounts and I know of many others that relied on GTC's to keep their accounts active that have also had to cancel accounts.
Moostang Darkstar 1 Goonswarm
Priceless Necro Thread |
Juntar Solarwind
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Posted - 2008.10.14 06:15:00 -
[1022]
Originally by: INF Wonderwoman
Originally by: Juntar Solarwind
Originally by: INF Wonderwoman
Originally by: Juntar Solarwind Adapt and overcome. Get over it already and move on. Either pay to play or let your accounts lapse and don't come back. Pretty simple if you stop and think about it.
Yes, just step aside and let the "government" do what they want... This is a player based game and we have the right to say whats good or not. If you get someone in office that wants to blow up all of Asia, do you say adapt and overcome,just get over it? .... stupid.
Uhm.. we are comparing playing a game to running a country and blowing up another? CCP owns their game and can make whatever changes they like. We either like it or we don't and we either keep paying or we don't. Lets not make this out to be more than it is.
I'm not saying its a country, just pointing out that you maybe willing to step aside and let this game go, but we as players have an option to discuss our opinions and actually have a chance, how ever small it maybe, to change there decision. So by all means, step aside, I will not.
I pay to keep my main and my alt active every month. How is that fair to me to get my money worth when you may let your accounts go inactive and get the same services I get, but for free. I will continue to pay my $30 a month (lil less actually since I buy in bulk) but CCP has made it balanced.
People keep complaining about "it's not the money, it's that they are sneaky bastards." but everyone who says that, says they can't afford to run x ammount of accounts anymore. Sounds like money issues to me.
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Catherine Frasier
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Posted - 2008.10.14 06:15:00 -
[1023]
Originally by: Clone 231A 1) Some of the devs themselves have stated this feature was worth it merely for ensuring players return, and as it took NO DEVELOPER RESOURCES, was not a drain on anything. It was shortly after the dragon release, and they have said as much back in the very early days when this was first discovered. It lent value to the game, and became a documented feature. CCP IS LYING.
I don't understand how you can possibly tell us with a straight face that something intentional, a feature, could be "first discovered" by the devs.
Yeah, when it was first discovered CCP didn't think it was a very big problem. Some devs might even have thought it was a good thing, then. Now though things have changed (like player counts) and CCP's position on this issue has also changed.
Changing your mind about something doesn't make you a liar.
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Haldane Fisher
Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2008.10.14 06:15:00 -
[1024]
Originally by: Joskken Inx
I'm adding this to my sig since it seems a few people think we're somehow making up 50 pages of this over "nothing but a bug"
"Skills continue training even if you are logged off or if your account is inactive (in the second scenario you can't change skill training, though)."
I'm down with that
"Skills continue training even if you are logged off or if your account is inactive (in the second scenario you can't change skill training, though)." |
Venomire
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.10.14 06:15:00 -
[1025]
This post has been cleared of inappropriate content.
Regards, The EVE Online Moderation team |
Ben Derindar
Dirty Deeds Corp. Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2008.10.14 06:16:00 -
[1026]
Edited by: Ben Derindar on 14/10/2008 06:21:51 My goodness, what a fuss.
I can't believe some people are raging that they can't train an account that they're not paying for. Are you seriously upset over the fact you're not getting a free lunch anymore on the basis that you've been getting one for years and you were only told about it one day at ten to twelve?
Somewhere here I read a post complaining that CCP don't communicate to us with respect. Well, given the extent that this thread has been moderated over the course of the day, that's some impressive irony right there. So what if it took five years, it didn't take much less for the Amarr to get their missing frigate, either.
Yes, this change has come a lot later than it should have, and yes, it would have been nice to perhaps afford the playerbase a bit more notice so they have some time to shuffle their plans a bit, or whatever. However, regardless of the way in which this change has been announced: the change itself is a GOOD THING for Eve and I endorse it heartily.
I have little sympathy for people who want their Shiny Toy Level 5 but can't bring themselves to enjoy the ride the game offers in the meantime. They're not much different from character buyers really, except the ghost-trainers are paying with time instead of isk. Neither have put the effort into understanding the game to a point worthy of the character they come to possess, and one ought to be subject to just as much ridicule as the other when they get horribly ganked for their ignorance.
Regarding the RP/market order argument some are putting forward, that's something I actually agree with: players should not be able to continue to accumulate isk on cancelled accounts. But the fact that this doesn't yet appear to have been addressed, is not in itself a reason why the change that *is* being addressed shouldn't be. Even if more steps in this direction are needed, the first one is still a start.
The feature/bug semantics drama on the other hand is just hopelessly irrelevant hot air. At the end of the day it doesn't matter what it's called or how it used to be written; it's CCP's game, CCP's rules, they're quite within their rights to change those rules as they see fit.
I suppose I should disclaim myself as someone who isn't affected by this personally at all; both my accounts are paid for by credit card, and I've never given any serious thought to this ghost-training business, mostly because I'm too lazy to be bothered trying to manage my time for the sake of saving a few dollars a month, when I'm probably not paying much more by subbing for 12 months at a time anyway.
But my point still stands. All CCP are saying is: use it or lose it. And that's fine by me. *shrug*
/Ben
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ArchenTheGreat
Caldari D00M. Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2008.10.14 06:19:00 -
[1027]
Originally by: INF Wonderwoman
Originally by: Sen Black http://www.eve-online.com/features/ "Exclusive offline skill advancement" So, it was a bug ? Exploit ?
Its been said before, but offline is not the same as inactive, the inactive portion is stated elsewhere.
I quote from: http://www.eve-online.com/guide/en/g615.asp
"Skills continue training even if you are logged off or if your account is inactive (in the second scenario you can't change skill training, though)."
I always treated this feature as a free bonus and will not miss it too much. There is recession in Island and they need ISK (the real one). I can understand it.
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Velda Chulai
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Posted - 2008.10.14 06:19:00 -
[1028]
"It's a Balance issue!" "No, wait, it's a software/database issue!"
I find it especially hilarious how blatant the lies are turning out to be.
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INF Wonderwoman
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Posted - 2008.10.14 06:19:00 -
[1029]
Originally by: Juntar Solarwind Pyramid quoting is prohibited.Applebabe
I pay to keep my main and my alt active every month. How is that fair to me to get my money worth when you may let your accounts go inactive and get the same services I get, but for free. I will continue to pay my $30 a month (lil less actually since I buy in bulk) but CCP has made it balanced.
People keep complaining about "it's not the money, it's that they are sneaky bastards." but everyone who says that, says they can't afford to run x ammount of accounts anymore. Sounds like money issues to me.
lol... It's fair because you have the same option that I have to do so. No one told you you had to pay that month, you did because you wanted to play with both accounts. It would be unfair if I was given the option and you were not.
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Estoika Chonda
3B Legio IX Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2008.10.14 06:20:00 -
[1030]
Ok so first the GTC prices were increased, and now this...
What CCP will get is make most of us to cancel our alts' accounts (and maybe mains).
Welcome to capitalism
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Devan Corvel
The Golden Phoenix Inc.
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Posted - 2008.10.14 06:20:00 -
[1031]
I can see some players' points about giving players something to come back to after being inactive for whatever reason. There is some level of incentive in that.
However, I can't agree with arguments I've seen about long training-time skills somehow justifying ghost training (AKA not paying for an account while the long skill is training), or other such nonsense.
The whole reason that skills increase in training time geometrically is so that you don't have month old characters flying titans. That is how it should be. Setting a long skill training doesn't stop you from playing the game. You can still make ISK, build standing, engage in PVE/PVP, mine, or do any other activity that doesn't directly relate to whatever requires the specific level of the skill you are training.
This whole exercise is the same concept as to why restrictions were placed on trial accounts, such as not being able to transfer ISK to other accounts. People were exploiting the "trial" accounts to make ISK, or do other things, to build up their main account. Nixing ghost training, like restricting trial accounts, is merely the act of a plugging an easily exploited loophole for non-paying players.
I look at long skills as a good thing to train when I know I'm going to be away from the game for a bit (but still paying for my accounts) OR to give me time to run missions, mine, or do whatever is necessary to build up the ISK I'll need to buy the ship or item the long training will allow me to use.
I can't honestly think of good reason why long skill training should be "free" regardless of whether your account is active or not. As a paying player of EVE, who has an alt account, I agree with this move by CCP.
Also, when players are referring to "talking with their wallet", consider this: If you're going to cancel accounts over this, you're implying that you've already make use of this loophole and go a month or more without paying for an account, while still reaping the benefit of skill training. As such You're simply reinforcing the reason for eliminating ghost training: you're saying you feel that you deserve the same character advancement--which, in EVE, is the basically the same thing as leveling--as a paying account...without paying.
That's the whole point of this exercise; to give paying customers value for their money and stop rewarding people who want something just because they feel "entitled" regardless or not they're paying for the game.
And before anyone cries me a river about the economy, falling short of money, etc. I have deactivated, and reactivated both my main and my alt accounts several times for these same reasons. At various times over the last four and a half years since I created my account, I've fallen on my own hard times in the past.
You know what I do when I can't afford a luxury item like an MMO subscription?
I cancel my subscription until I can afford it again.
So STFU and quit whining. EVE is not a requirement of life. If you think it is, you seriously need to get your priorities straight.
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algorythm
Minmatar Evolution Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.10.14 06:22:00 -
[1032]
Originally by: Tyrrax Thorrk
If you want more money which is the only message I can see in the devblog you're going about it the wrong way.
Agreed. _________________________
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Iture
Caldari Arcana Imperii Ltd. Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2008.10.14 06:22:00 -
[1033]
I can predict the future, and i predict CCP losing much money for this decision.
I vote to change back GTC's and to Keep ghost Skilling the way it is.
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Joskken Inx
PURE Legion Pure.
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Posted - 2008.10.14 06:22:00 -
[1034]
Well, for what it's worth I'd be much, much more receptive to changes-talked about or whatnot-if they weren't dropped on our lap with less than 48 hours to go. I can name a dozen bugs, some are much more gamebreaking and unbalenced to the nth degree, that are still pending...something...to change.
Yet this is dropped on us with less than 2 days to react. The priority of this, and the manner it's been put out for us, is unacceptable. ------------------------------------------------ "Skills continue training even if you are logged off or if your account is inactive (in the second scenario you can't change skill training, though). |
Suffen
Gallente The Roost
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Posted - 2008.10.14 06:23:00 -
[1035]
I agree with everyone else but CCP. I thought CCP squashed bugs as soon as they are able to find out about it? I've seen many-a-patches since my first subscription -- many chances to remove the "bug".. sure. You thought that it wasn't happening and a "sudden surge" prompted action? Doesn't this mean that if another bug in the game exists, unless it escalates to the point that its "unsatisfactory" is after a couple of months or years before you squish it? How many hundreds of bugs out there exist that your waiting on to fix?
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Alexander Ronay
Crushed Ambitions
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Posted - 2008.10.14 06:24:00 -
[1036]
Edited by: Alexander Ronay on 14/10/2008 06:25:46
Originally by: Devan Corvel I can see some players' points about giving players something to come back to after being inactive for whatever reason. There is some level of incentive in that.
However, I can't agree with arguments I've seen about long training-time skills somehow justifying ghost training (AKA not paying for an account while the long skill is training), or other such nonsense.
The whole reason that skills increase in training time geometrically is so that you don't have month old characters flying titans. That is how it should be. Setting a long skill training doesn't stop you from playing the game. You can still make ISK, build standing, engage in PVE/PVP, mine, or do any other activity that doesn't directly relate to whatever requires the specific level of the skill you are training.
This whole exercise is the same concept as to why restrictions were placed on trial accounts, such as not being able to transfer ISK to other accounts. People were exploiting the "trial" accounts to make ISK, or do other things, to build up their main account. Nixing ghost training, like restricting trial accounts, is merely the act of a plugging an easily exploited loophole for non-paying players.
I look at long skills as a good thing to train when I know I'm going to be away from the game for a bit (but still paying for my accounts) OR to give me time to run missions, mine, or do whatever is necessary to build up the ISK I'll need to buy the ship or item the long training will allow me to use.
I can't honestly think of good reason why long skill training should be "free" regardless of whether your account is active or not. As a paying player of EVE, who has an alt account, I agree with this move by CCP.
Also, when players are referring to "talking with their wallet", consider this: If you're going to cancel accounts over this, you're implying that you've already make use of this loophole and go a month or more without paying for an account, while still reaping the benefit of skill training. As such You're simply reinforcing the reason for eliminating ghost training: you're saying you feel that you deserve the same character advancement--which, in EVE, is the basically the same thing as leveling--as a paying account...without paying.
That's the whole point of this exercise; to give paying customers value for their money and stop rewarding people who want something just because they feel "entitled" regardless or not they're paying for the game.
And before anyone cries me a river about the economy, falling short of money, etc. I have deactivated, and reactivated both my main and my alt accounts several times for these same reasons. At various times over the last four and a half years since I created my account, I've fallen on my own hard times in the past.
You know what I do when I can't afford a luxury item like an MMO subscription?
I cancel my subscription until I can afford it again.
So STFU and quit whining. EVE is not a requirement of life. If you think it is, you seriously need to get your priorities straight.
This is actually the first argument from the "other side", if you will, that actually made any modi****of sense.
I would pretty much be satisfied if CCP would allow any unsubbed accounts that are ghost training to finish, and then no more. That would seem to be the fairest option to everybody.
/me stares at his supposed profanity
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Sqeezy
Aliastra
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 06:25:00 -
[1037]
Originally by: Ben Derindar My goodness, what a fuss.
I can't believe some people are raging that they can't train an account that they're not paying for. Are you seriously upset over the fact you're not getting a free lunch anymore on the basis that you've been getting one for years and you were only told about it one day at ten to twelve?
Somewhere here I read a post complaining that CCP don't communicate to us with respect. Well, given the extent that this thread has been moderated over the course of the day, that's some impressive irony right there. So what if it took five years, it didn't take much less for the Amarr to get their missing frigate, either.
Yes, this change has come a lot later than it should have, and yes, it would have been nice to perhaps afford the playerbase a bit more notice so they have some time to shuffle their plans a bit, or whatever. However, regardless of the way in which this change has been announced: the change itself is a GOOD THING for Eve and I endorse it heartily.
I have little sympathy for people who want their Shiny Toy Level 5 but can't bring themselves to enjoy the ride the game offers in the meantime. They're not much different from character buyers really, except the ghost-trainers are paying with time instead of isk. Neither have put the effort into understanding the game to a point worthy of the character they come to possess, and one ought to be subject to just as much ridicule as the other when they get horribly ganked for their ignorance.
The feature/bug semantics drama is just hopelessly irrelevant hot air. At the end of the day it doesn't matter what it's called, it's CCP's game, CCP's rules, they're quite within their rights to change those rules as they see fit.
Regarding the RP/market order argument some are putting forward, that's something I actually agree with: players should not be able to continue to accumulate isk on cancelled accounts. But the fact that this doesn't yet appear to have been addressed, is not in itself a reason why the change that *is* being addressed shouldn't be. Even if more steps in this direction are needed, the first one is still a start.
I suppose I should disclaim myself as someone who isn't affected by this personally at all; both my accounts are paid for by credit card, and I've never given any serious thought to this ghost-training business, mostly because I'm too lazy to be bothered trying to manage my time for the sake of saving a few dollars a month, when I'm probably not paying much more by subbing for 12 months at a time anyway.
But my point still stands. All CCP are saying is: use it or lose it. And that's fine by me. *shrug*
/Ben
You don't get the point there is a right way to announce things and a wrong way.
1. You dont lie to your Memberbase and remove a "feature" you dont like anymore claiming it is a bug.
2. If it is a bug i ask myself why this bug was fixed on the chinese server years ago and not here (i could look for the dev blog where it is mentioned that it¦s a feature and not enabled on the chinese sever but .... effort )
HELLO CCP YOUR ADVERTISING CLAIMS YOUR SO YOUR SO CLOSE CONNECTION TO THE MEMBERSHIP AN THE YOU COME OUT WITH RUBBISH AND CHEAP EXCUSES. I HOPE YOU LOOSE A BUNCHOF MONEY ABOUT THIS FOR NOT BEEING HONEST ABOUT THE REASONS .....
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Jorel
Developmental Neogenics Amalgamated
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Posted - 2008.10.14 06:26:00 -
[1038]
Edited by: Jorel on 14/10/2008 06:29:01 Started this account (not the character) on release day....
Have been paying almost non-stop since 2003 (I did take some breaks)...
This is complete and utter bull$hit.
I have always recommended EVE to friends when they were fed up with b.s. from Blizzard, Sony, etc. Many of whom started playing after I explained that particular bug/feature to them.
The decision makers are a bunch of morons who have no idea of the consequences of their actions and the negative PR that a game can have.
Back in 2005 when we (Guiding Hand Social Club) pulled the Heist that got CCP a raving review in the form a 4 page article in PCGAMER; the subscriptions sky-rocketed.
Rest assured, we'll do this in another game for you trying to give us surprise butt-sex just before the Christmas season.
In conclusion,
Dear CCP,
Thanks for the lulz and zee fun tymez.
Your condescending attitudes towards your customers are the stuff of legends, and will not be forgotten soon.
I doubt I will be re-subbing any of my accounts when they run out.
If I wanted to get *****-slapped I'd walk up to a chick in a bar and grab her t1ts, I certainly will not pay for it on the interwebz.
Edited for lulz
|
Paradise Dreamer
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Posted - 2008.10.14 06:27:00 -
[1039]
Yeah, great!
It's one of the best ideas, to flush many players out from EvE.. Well done :(
I'm very dissapointed of your way : "Farming ISK sellers ? I couldn't care less. The most important is the money!! Let's kick out ghost training, so we'll earn some extra money! yay!".
You know what ? I doesn't have any extra account. And I still fighting with myself about quitting this game, maybe forever... You'd changed horrible since beginings of EvE... That's the very thin line between You and some other company (I won't tell their name, but many of you knows their game called "wow"). If you reach this point, that will be too late for going back...
I offer my condolences to You.
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McRuder
Gallente ANZAC ALLIANCE
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Posted - 2008.10.14 06:27:00 -
[1040]
If anyone ever needed proof that CCP do not care about a single subscriber, only about the statistical majority, then this is it. Eve is like a drug to most people, and CCP knows this. They can do whatever they feel like, and the player base will whine 40+30 pages, but they will continue playing, and accept the change. CCP knows the only thing that will make most people stop playing is by switching off the servers. They know that hardcore eve junkies will not just accept the changes, they will also support them.
Not that anyone, especially CCP, cares or reads these posts. I just needed to air my dismay. |
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Lysander Kaldenn
Viper Intel Squad Sons of Tangra
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Posted - 2008.10.14 06:27:00 -
[1041]
Originally by: Catherine Frasier
Originally by: Clone 231A 1) Some of the devs themselves have stated this feature was worth it merely for ensuring players return, and as it took NO DEVELOPER RESOURCES, was not a drain on anything. It was shortly after the dragon release, and they have said as much back in the very early days when this was first discovered. It lent value to the game, and became a documented feature. CCP IS LYING.
I don't understand how you can possibly tell us with a straight face that something intentional, a feature, could be "first discovered" by the devs.
Yeah, when it was first discovered CCP didn't think it was a very big problem. Some devs might even have thought it was a good thing, then. Now though things have changed (like player counts) and CCP's position on this issue has also changed.
Changing your mind about something doesn't make you a liar.
Exactly.
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FlameGlow
Legio Octae Rebellion Alliance
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Posted - 2008.10.14 06:28:00 -
[1042]
Confirming I'll be the one receiving stuffs from all those 606192 cancelled accounts _____________ I don't care what is nerfed, as long as it's not my "undock" button. |
Alexander Ronay
Crushed Ambitions
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 06:28:00 -
[1043]
Originally by: McRuder If anyone ever needed proof that CCP do not care about a single subscriber, only about the statistical majority, then this is it. Eve is like a drug to most people, and CCP knows this. They can do whatever they feel like, and the player base will whine 40+30 pages, but they will continue playing, and accept the change. CCP knows the only thing that will make most people stop playing is by switching off the servers. They know that hardcore eve junkies will not just accept the changes, they will also support them.
Not that anyone, especially CCP, cares or reads these posts. I just needed to air my dismay.
Apple comes to mind........
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Gregorius Decimus
Caldari GBTeam C0VEN
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 06:28:00 -
[1044]
Edited by: Gregorius Decimus on 14/10/2008 06:28:33
Originally by: Paradise Dreamer Yeah, great!
It's one of the best ideas, to flush many players out from EvE.. Well done :(
I'm very dissapointed of your way : "Farming ISK sellers ? I couldn't care less. The most important is the money!! Let's kick out ghost training, so we'll earn some extra money! yay!".
You know what ? I doesn't have any extra account. And I still fighting with myself about quitting this game, maybe forever... You'd changed horrible since beginings of EvE... That's the very thin line between You and some other company (I won't tell their name, but many of you knows their game called "wow"). If you reach this point, that will be too late for going back...
I offer my condolences to You.
Arr, that was 'told' by me :-)
-=Perfect Dream=- |
Juntar Solarwind
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Posted - 2008.10.14 06:28:00 -
[1045]
I'm not saying its a country, just pointing out that you maybe willing to step aside and let this game go, but we as players have an option to discuss our opinions and actually have a chance, how ever small it maybe, to change there decision. So by all means, step aside, I will not.
I pay to keep my main and my alt active every month. How is that fair to me to get my money worth when you may let your accounts go inactive and get the same services I get, but for free. I will continue to pay my $30 a month (lil less actually since I buy in bulk) but CCP has made it balanced.
People keep complaining about "it's not the money, it's that they are sneaky bastards." but everyone who says that, says they can't afford to run x ammount of accounts anymore. Sounds like money issues to me.
lol... It's fair because you have the same option that I have to do so. No one told you you had to pay that month, you did because you wanted to play with both accounts. It would be unfair if I was given the option and you were not.
So you don't want to play on your second account, or can't afford it, or forgot to pay your bill, but think you should still be receiving the benefit of "offline progression". Hmm... let me not pay my light bill this month and see what happens next month.
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JunLin
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 06:29:00 -
[1046]
this has to be a bad joke right?
first ccp changes the price for the gtc's and kills the 30day cards and now this crap? the stuff with the database is not even a good excuse ... even when hardcore offline skilling, you had to buy at least a month between each skill (in the worst cases at least every second month) and while ccp is still offering trial accounts, that are heavily abused and missused (suicide gank pirate fun mining alts ...) the database has no room for paying customers?
well i quess its time to look for something new an betther, probably with a skillsystem that doesn`t bind you for at least a year or something like that
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T'Laar Bok
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Posted - 2008.10.14 06:30:00 -
[1047]
Well done CCP, about time the freeloaders were given a boot in the head. |
Jorel
Developmental Neogenics Amalgamated
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Posted - 2008.10.14 06:31:00 -
[1048]
Also... was going to go to Fanfest...not anymore
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Morgon Borga
Caldari The Photon Raiders
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Posted - 2008.10.14 06:31:00 -
[1049]
Is this for realz?!?
While I never "ghost" trained and never planned to do so, CCP are some lying dirty dogs. Bug?! Give me a ****ing break! You'd think they'd at least be smart enough to remove all references to the "bug" as an intended feature before posting this garbage.
The GTC fiasco was bad enough but I can't imagine this most recent move puts CCP in good stead with the player base.
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James Marshalll
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.10.14 06:31:00 -
[1050]
Originally by: Lysander Kaldenn
Originally by: Catherine Frasier
Originally by: Clone 231A 1) Some of the devs themselves have stated this feature was worth it merely for ensuring players return, and as it took NO DEVELOPER RESOURCES, was not a drain on anything. It was shortly after the dragon release, and they have said as much back in the very early days when this was first discovered. It lent value to the game, and became a documented feature. CCP IS LYING.
I don't understand how you can possibly tell us with a straight face that something intentional, a feature, could be "first discovered" by the devs.
Yeah, when it was first discovered CCP didn't think it was a very big problem. Some devs might even have thought it was a good thing, then. Now though things have changed (like player counts) and CCP's position on this issue has also changed.
Changing your mind about something doesn't make you a liar.
Exactly.
no but telling us its a balance issue... then a snowflake, then a database issue, then a money issue makes you a ****ing liar.
/shrug
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Warocia
Interstellar Brotherhood of Gravediggers Privateer Alliance
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Posted - 2008.10.14 06:33:00 -
[1051]
I can't really understand why people should progress if they don't pay for game. This game isn't free and still people are complaining that they should get free lunch.
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Tnam
Caldari Mortis Angelus The Church.
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Posted - 2008.10.14 06:34:00 -
[1052]
While its definitely a fair change (even if it does exclude market orders/rp/dividends etc) its a bit of a shame.
I can remember so many times that a player was motivated back to Eve after quitting partially because they knew they would have finished training some really long skill. One of the fallout effects of this long term will be that less players come back after long periods of inactivity and that is a shame.
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Catherine Frasier
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Posted - 2008.10.14 06:35:00 -
[1053]
Originally by: Morgon Borga You'd think they'd at least be smart enough to remove all references to the "bug" as an intended feature before posting this garbage.
For example?
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Raul Watanabe
Gallente NQX Innovations
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Posted - 2008.10.14 06:35:00 -
[1054]
So let me get this straight
After encouraging everybody with the power of two you now noticed an upsurge of people ghost training and you feel like your missing out on something. You poor fools, do you think were dumb enough to not realise that this 'upsurge' is because a large amount of your 'new' customers are all alts who need at least a few months training to even become half decent characters. Im sorry your 'upsurge' is due to new player interest and you want to maximise your income. Im sorry you dont feel that restricting your customers to one character per paying account is not out of line with the rest of the MMO world.
Since i have played this game i have lost countless clones, ships and a fully faction fitted navy mega to lag outs and other assorted crap that shouldnt happen ( ive lost boat loads of stuff properly and thats fine ). I lost 12 days worth of skill training the other week due to me being podded twice in quick succesion when your servers shafted me both times. I mean seriously how do you lose a pod to a bunch of drakes anyway? the answer is you dont you get shafted with no apologies or refunds and despite it being ultimately avoidable and my fault for not re insuring it left a bad taste in my mouth, now your telling me that i have to cough up more money for my alt.
I have two accounts CCP, thats double your income from one person just so i can actually compete in your game against all the other people out there. Faced with the fact i cant ghost train on my alt and the many other things i have to be 'understanding' with and the fact that i could put my hard earned money into skydiving more i have to ask myself do i really care anymore.
The game i thought i would always play is just another game it seems .
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Gartanus
Caldari Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2008.10.14 06:36:00 -
[1055]
After reading the blog and every post in this thread, I dont see what the big deal is. Those of you doing this were getting a service for free that should have been paid for. So now if you want that alt and to continue its training, just keep the account active. It is really simple to understand. As far as bagging on CCP about the new change is just nuts. I honestly dont see what the problem is. I take breaks from eve as well, but I make sure my account wont lapse in the meantime. As far as getting a warning that your account is about to lapse is not CCP's responsibility. They give you all that information in the forums under Your Account. Just take 5 minutes and look it up. I swear! This space reserved for something witty..... |
WeightedCompanionCube
Aperture Science Enrichment Center
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Posted - 2008.10.14 06:37:00 -
[1056]
Originally by: FlameGlow Confirming I'll be the one receiving stuffs from all those 581901 cancelled accounts
I'm putting you all in my adress book and will petition you to be banned if I ever see you logging in again. |
Yakumo Smith
Gallente When Darkness Falls
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Posted - 2008.10.14 06:37:00 -
[1057]
Originally by: Annaphera How many times on the original forum thread did I see people state that if CCP just came out and admitted that they were doing this because they needed the money, they could understand? Great, they did just that. Now, how many of those same people are vilifying CCP for admitting they needed the money? Hypocrites.
How many people here are pleading hardship, trying to say that a service provider should provide some benefit to those who can't pay for their service, just to get them to come back? A benefit, I might add, that the rest of us correctly expect to pay for? Does the cable company offer such things? How about the local health club? Should I expect the dry-cleaner I pay on a regular basis to do just my shirts rather than all of my dry-cleaning, because I can't afford to pay them this week? If they had been, out of the goodness of their hearts, and then stopped at however short notice, do I have a right to yell at them?
How many of those pleading hardship here have multiple accounts - some as many as 8? When exactly do you expect to pay for all of those accounts at the same time, or are you just leveling characters to sell for isk or transfer to a "core" account? Why should you not pay for that privilege, the same way I do? Why should CCP be upset when you say you are going to cut the number in half or to a third, when that's all you normally pay for at one time anyway? And why should I not be upset that you are taking advantage?
For those who say they have never heard anyone complain about this issue, congratulations, you just have. I have to stay online and keep my sub up to train all of my skills that take less than four days...why should you get training time and not have to pay for a sub? You are training skills that take a long time because you are at an advanced part of the game. Or are you just looking to cheat the company that develops the game and still inflate your e-peen? How is that different, ethically, from the isk-buying most of you profess to hate so?
I'm staying. My two accounts are staying. I'm adding a third soon.
+1 account, CCP.
Though I'd like to see at least a one-slot skill que at some point, hmmm?
I was one of those players...but that was before they pulled a "it's a bug not a feature" stunt.
No I don't trust them any more. Worse still, it makes me reevaluate the times I've taken their side in the past.
Yak
I suppose this must be my sig. I'll do something cool with it eventually. |
Tarron Black
Perkone
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 06:37:00 -
[1058]
Originally by: Jorel Also... was going to go to Fanfest...not anymore
Nah, go and give them a piece of your mind... Or a cluebat to the side of the head |
Zarest
Space Oddysey Pupule 'Ohana
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Posted - 2008.10.14 06:37:00 -
[1059]
First GTC prices and lack of options then this, well I guess I might not be coming back after my next break......
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Gregorius Decimus
Caldari GBTeam C0VEN
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Posted - 2008.10.14 06:37:00 -
[1060]
Calling that ex-feature "a bug" is the most craziest thing, that I've ever heard in EvE... You've deployed that feature form the begining..
Moreover, what will you do, if those accounts won't be subscribed i.e for 4 months... They'll be still in your database... Now what ? Next step will be deleting inactive accounts? Let's say... You'll delete account with .... 2 or 3 WEEKS of inactivity ? - Yeah! That could be good either! Let's do it in the next patch! yay!
-=Perfect Dream=- |
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INF Wonderwoman
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Posted - 2008.10.14 06:38:00 -
[1061]
Originally by: Juntar Solarwind I'm not saying its a country, just pointing out that you maybe willing to step aside and let this game go, but we as players have an option to discuss our opinions and actually have a chance, how ever small it maybe, to change there decision. So by all means, step aside, I will not.
I pay to keep my main and my alt active every month. How is that fair to me to get my money worth when you may let your accounts go inactive and get the same services I get, but for free. I will continue to pay my $30 a month (lil less actually since I buy in bulk) but CCP has made it balanced.
People keep complaining about "it's not the money, it's that they are sneaky bastards." but everyone who says that, says they can't afford to run x ammount of accounts anymore. Sounds like money issues to me.
lol... It's fair because you have the same option that I have to do so. No one told you you had to pay that month, you did because you wanted to play with both accounts. It would be unfair if I was given the option and you were not.
So you don't want to play on your second account, or can't afford it, or forgot to pay your bill, but think you should still be receiving the benefit of "offline progression". Hmm... let me not pay my light bill this month and see what happens next month.
Does your light bill(electric company) allow you to do that? No, invalid argument to fairness point. You just went from talking about the fairness of this being implemented to talking about the reason behind keeping it... Anyway my reasons are simply. 1. Bring people back to the game 2. Allows people to have a RL 3. Makes it easier to run several accounts 4. Makes grinding long skills tolerable 5. Adds a unique "I don't feel like I HAVE to play the game to enjoy it" factor
Point 5 is the main reason I started EVE, with other mmo's you feel like you have to be there to get anything out of it. Eve not only with the offline, but the inactive account skill training made me comfortable with playing it on my own time.
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freddy madball
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Posted - 2008.10.14 06:40:00 -
[1062]
Edited by: freddy madball on 14/10/2008 06:54:32 Subscription Status: Cancelled Will be suspended11/11/2008 Total Number Of Payments: 4 Cancel Subscription Cancellation Expires: 11/11/2008 10:02:42 AM Remaining Playtime: 28d:3h:45m
no whining no complaining, deeds are louder then words -1 alt account, maybe if they actually fixed problems and bugs and chose to be honest to its player base there would be alot less - accounts, and alot more sympathy.
ccp you have credibility issues and you havent even improved those. shame the old guard moved on.
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Tania
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Posted - 2008.10.14 06:41:00 -
[1063]
I have "ghosttrained" alot, mostly because i get bored of eve and training some skill to 5 so i can use a new t2 ship or something always gets me back, there is also the money issue, taking a break for a month or 2 lets me think i can afford more than 1 account. I won't stop taking breaks but i just won't be as inclined to come back after only 1month off and to have more than 1 account.
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Catherine Frasier
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Posted - 2008.10.14 06:42:00 -
[1064]
Originally by: Gregorius Decimus Calling that ex-feature "a bug" is the most craziest thing, that I've ever heard in EvE... You've deployed that feature form the begining..
Not exactly true. As pointed out previously in this very thread this "feature" was discovered, not intended. Yes it has remained unaddressed for a long time but that doesn't make it any less of an accident.
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James Marshalll
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.10.14 06:43:00 -
[1065]
Edited by: James Marshalll on 14/10/2008 06:44:23
Originally by: Warocia I can't really understand why people should progress if they don't pay for game. This game isn't free and still people are complaining that they should get free lunch.
Because as lots of people have said, over the last 5 years that "feature" was something that gave eve something other games didn't. It gave those people who need a break every few months a chance to keep going with their friends and still stay somewhat competitive.
It was a feature that has been around for FIVE years. There are huge major issues that need to be addressed like gridlock and they give excuses like database clutter after giving us other excuses previous to that. They drop it on people 2 days before its going live, after 5 years of touting you can do it in the user guide.
MORE SO they did this after re_enabling power of two and those of us who did take advantage of it feel kinda cheated, think about it for a moment.
If you went to buy a house they sell you on a loan with these great things that are different then any other loan on the market. Then 5 years after being used to it, they ask you to refinance for a little bit more expensive price, but in reality they are removing the perks from the loan that drew you to the company to begin with. But instead of just telling you the real reason, they give you the reason that the paperwork was never intended to be given to you, and that you are lucky you weren't sued for breach of contract. After you tell them that you have the signed contract they tell you that they have to pay too many people to manage the extra paper work... after they realize how BS that answer was they come back with a final "We just want the monies we are a business YAHOOOOOOOO!"
But whatever, there are people who are going to be for it, and those who aren't. It all depends on who speaks with their wallet and who doesn't. (just like the BoB/GM Scandel, GTC price raise, possible nano nerf, or whatever next big fiasco CCP decides to shoot itself in the foot with) The problem I have is that now, those players who did stick it through (or didn't care) about those other things that have happened, are getting one more stick jabbed in their throats.
Games, more importantly MMO's change all the time. Change isn't always the problems, its the way the change is presented that ****es off the people enmass.
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Megumi Yumiko
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Posted - 2008.10.14 06:43:00 -
[1066]
This is by far the worst thing the can do as most of us have school and don't have time to get the money for stay online that was the skill learning thing was usefull for but now.......this is just stupid to cancel this as not only wil people wil not wanna have more then 1 acount the wil also lose points getting older with no extra skillpoints that wil be really really really bad as that wil hurt eve market alot more then you mind think it would and if ccp needs extra money then rise the price of the game but do not and i repeat DON'T TOUCH THE ONLY GOOD PART OF THE GAME!
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xOmGx
Warriors tribe Red Alliance
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Posted - 2008.10.14 06:43:00 -
[1067]
Quote: this was a bug
Oo LOL CCP if it take you 5 years to see and fix this as you call bug.. you earn no respect at all.. I'm just wonderin how long does it take you to see and fix real bugs??
Quote: supporting and maintaining a large number of customers that weren't paying us regular subscriptions
Money makes the world go around? Maybe yes. And in other hand LAGg Make the EvE go around.
Anyway all comes to this:
Quote: Now a single customer that doesn't log into the servers may not weigh heavily on our database infrastructure, just as a single snowflake isn't that heavy, hardly a measurable quantity. But it's hard not to notice an avalanche if it hits you. And that's what was starting to happen in our database
Yes shure wery nice move to clean up you database. And i think soon we recive same online on our server as on China EvE server.
PS. Wich next feature of the game will consider as a bug and get "fixed"
If you want to fix somesing Fix Titan make it real Flagship of the fleet and not a Big kill flying around. Improwe the world, you can t improve game simply by adding new ships.. (it's about new expansion) No Pain - No Gain |
Bambouler
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Posted - 2008.10.14 06:43:00 -
[1068]
gtc 60d after 1/3 closed-definitively account This patch is the established 3/3 closed-definitively account
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Seth Ruin
Minmatar Ominous Corp Ethereal Dawn
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Posted - 2008.10.14 06:44:00 -
[1069]
Originally by: freddy madball no whining no complaining, deeds are louder then words -1 alt account, maybe if they actually fixed problems and bugs and chose to be honest to its playerbase there would be alot more - accounts, and alot more sympathy.
ccp you have credibility issues and you havent even improved those. shame the old guard moved on.
Good point. To that I add my own alt:
Subscription Status: Cancelled Will be suspended4/7/2009 Total Number Of Payments: 1 Cancel Subscription Cancellation Expires: 4/7/2009 9:24:50 PM Remaining Playtime: 175d:14h:42m
^ Yeah, I got suckered in by the Power of Two... This alt account will most likely never be paid for again.
-- (CCP Inconsistency) |
Triksterism
Gallente Frozen Corpse Inspection Services United Federation of Capsuleers
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Posted - 2008.10.14 06:44:00 -
[1070]
Originally by: Catherine Frasier
Originally by: Gregorius Decimus Calling that ex-feature "a bug" is the most craziest thing, that I've ever heard in EvE... You've deployed that feature form the begining..
Not exactly true. As pointed out previously in this very thread this "feature" was discovered, not intended. Yes it has remained unaddressed for a long time but that doesn't make it any less of an accident.
C'mon Cat, be real. If they really thought bad of this from day 1, then they would not or at least should not have promoted it as a feature. Plain 'ol bullshit tbh. -
Ghost Train & Snowflake |
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SSgt Sniper
Gallente MAIDS
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Posted - 2008.10.14 06:44:00 -
[1071]
Due to the implementation methods chosen by CCP on this particular change, I have decided to let my accounts run out. Largely this is the final straw, there have been missues that have bothered me but I sucked it up and dealt with it. But this example of something beyond poor customer service has made me decide two things:
1. I believe CCP is lying in the reasoning behind this change. Simply put, it was in the player guide for years and I have a hard time making the step from "Look at this nifty feature" to "This is a bug". I think the simple truth is they need the money because recent changes in GTC policy left a lot of accounts expected to renew during the fall choosing not to, and this is a backdoor attempt to FORCE those people into doing so during this difficult financial time for thier country.
2. I choose not to reward this company for having both schizophrenic customer service and now outright lying to the customer base.
Now my accounts will be paid for a while yet (I paid the year, so I got a few months left) so we will have to see if the current trends continue. In the meantime My corp is currently hoping things like Jumpgate Evolution or Star Trek Online prove to be able to fill the bill for what we are looking for in our MMO happy.
This really to me boils down to I believe they are lying about the why, and I don't wish to reward them for doing so. They come out and be honest about the reasoning, I'd reconsider (with a huge grain of salt as the customer service is still poor) but I won't reward an outright lie.
Queries for my stuff can be forwarded to Chribba next spring. I'm still going to play for what I have already paid. ------- CEO of Maids. No I didn't pick the name. I've grown rather fond of it though.
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Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.10.14 06:46:00 -
[1072]
Originally by: Sqeezy
Originally by: Ben Derindar My goodness, what a fuss.
I can't believe some people are raging that they can't train an account that they're not paying for. Are you seriously upset over the fact you're not getting a free lunch anymore on the basis that you've been getting one for years and you were only told about it one day at ten to twelve?
Somewhere here I read a post complaining that CCP don't communicate to us with respect. Well, given the extent that this thread has been moderated over the course of the day, that's some impressive irony right there.
Yes, this change has come a lot later than it should have, and yes, it would have been nice to perhaps afford the playerbase a bit more notice so they have some time to shuffle their plans a bit, or whatever.
I have little sympathy for people who want their Shiny Toy Level 5 but can't bring themselves to enjoy the ride the game offers in the meantime. They're not much different from character buyers really, except the ghost-trainers are paying with time instead of isk. Neither have put the effort into understanding the game to a point worthy of the character they come to possess, and one ought to be subject to just as much ridicule as the other when they get horribly ganked for their ignorance.
The feature/bug semantics drama is just hopelessly irrelevant hot air. At the end of the day it doesn't matter what it's called, it's CCP's game, CCP's rules, they're quite within their rights to change those rules as they see fit.
Regarding the RP/market order argument some are putting forward, that's something I actually agree with: players should not be able to continue to accumulate isk on cancelled accounts. But the fact that this doesn't yet appear to have been addressed, is not in itself a reason why the change that *is* being addressed shouldn't be. Even if more steps in this direction are needed, the first one is still a start.
I suppose I should disclaim myself as someone who isn't affected by this personally at all; both my accounts are paid for by credit card, and I've never given any serious thought to this ghost-training business, mostly because I'm too lazy to be bothered trying to manage my time for the sake of saving a few dollars a month, when I'm probably not paying much more by subbing for 12 months at a time anyway.
But my point still stands. All CCP are saying is: use it or lose it. And that's fine by me. *shrug*
You don't get the point there is a right way to announce things and a wrong way.
1. You dont lie to your Memberbase and remove a "feature" you dont like anymore claiming it is a bug.
2. If it is a bug i ask myself why this bug was fixed on the chinese server years ago and not here (i could look for the dev blog where it is mentioned that it¦s a feature and not enabled on the chinese sever but .... effort )
Quote: A long overdue and much needed change will be put in place with the Wednesday, 15 October 2008 patch. Ghost Training, the continuous skill gain on accounts in an inactive or expired state - will no longer function after Wednesday, 15 October 2008. This practice upsets the balance of the game, and capsuleers who actively put their time and energy into working on their characters will no longer be unfairly affected by those few who have not.
I have trouble seeing where it call it a "bug".
CCP has decided that it is exploited too much, probably because there is a lot of people using it for training high level skills while activating the account only for a part of the year. Probably the problem was increased by the ever growing quantity of high level skills. I would prefer a limited training time (a fixed number of days, let's say 5) after a subscribe lapse to cover for people with RL troubles, but no more than that.
About the RP accruing, yes, I like the thought of them stopping to grow when the account is inactive but I have a personal interest in that change so I am hardly unbiased.
|
FeatherDust
Caldari REUNI0N Against ALL Authorities
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 06:47:00 -
[1073]
Hello our fair CCP,
Can you please be so kind to answer some questions:
1) "Skills continue training even if you are logged off or if your account is inactive (in the second scenario you can't change skill training, though)." (c) http://www.eve-online.com/guide/en/g615.asp So you mean you knew all the time that there was bug in the payment system? And is it FAIR to describe this bug as a game feature? 2) Is it fair, that you simply don't have good QA and you're using players (i'd even say "customers") to test your system? (remeber "boot.ini" issue? "Ah, the lag qwestion"?) 3) Is it fair that you "Customer support" likes to Copy-Paste petition answers WITHOUT reading it?
All this questions simply goes to one: Is it fair to speak about fairness when product and customer support lacks some quality?
|
algorythm
Minmatar Evolution Band of Brothers
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 06:47:00 -
[1074]
For those quitting game, please contract your items to algorythm, direct isk transfers are also welcome, thank you _________________________
|
VLAD DRACU
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 06:47:00 -
[1075]
this blog is a load of bull like the first announcement. what surge? whats the effect of that surge? server overload? node crash? and a 5 year accepted bug in the player guide now we need a similar crappy post from your ceo
this ghost training was a good compensation of the slow learning curve eve has - and thatÆs a known fact.
you take this game with your customerbase on the edge; you rely on the fact that you have a hardcore player base that will keep on subscribing, well good luck
ccp, that's failure at its best
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Octopus Overlord
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 06:48:00 -
[1076]
2 accounts. -1
|
Horny Scientist
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 06:49:00 -
[1077]
All you complainers!!!! Jesus!! blah blah blah blah
1. It's obvious CCP's decision is final, whining till the cows come home will do no good. At least not for now.
2. Yes, CCP is doing a disservice to players who subscribe on and off due to rl demands. Without ghost training they fall further behind. Well thats a small percentage of ppl who take advantage of ghost training. Too bad. See the forum full of toon sellers? Complain to those hundreds of abusers who buy 30d gtcs just to train toons to SELL! Hey they ruined it. Good thing they removed 30d gtcs too.
3. A small percentage of players will complain like hell. Empty barrels make the most noise. Too bad. But the end result? The EXTRA number of subscriptions (by hardcore EVE obsessed fans) just to keep toons training will cover the subscriptions lost. The is the exact prediction CCP's marketing dept has I'm sure.
4. So complain all you like now, life goes on. However, if half the eve population quits because of this, I'm sure they'll bring ghost training back. But, hey, hell will freeze over too if that happened.
5. Oh and iceland's going bankrupt! Give them a break!!!!
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Catherine Frasier
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 06:49:00 -
[1078]
Originally by: James Marshalll telling us its a balance issue... then a snowflake, then a database issue, then a money issue makes you a ****ing liar.
Unless of course it is a balance issue and also a database load issue and also a storage issue and also a money issue and also...
What are you expecting? That some dev will say : "It's THIS issue and only THIS issue and doesn't affect anything else and nobody from CCP thinks anything else is significant at all."?
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Kell Braugh
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 06:49:00 -
[1079]
As with many other, i got hooked into multiple accounts with the whole power of two thing with the idea that i could just get a gtc when i wanted to play the second account with it training the supper long skills i would never train on my main..
Knowing enough about the skill system you guys use.. It actually takes more work for you (i.e. code to maintain) to 'fix' this 'bug' as before there was just a timestamp of when it would finish, now you gotta check to see if we'd payed the piper this month.
If this change goes through, it will in effect make you guilty of false advertisement and liable to prosecution thereof. You sold me a game that included the ability of skills to train (after account has expired).
Your logic is ill founded. Most people reactivate their accounts BECAUSE the training has now completed on that nifty skill to V or what-have-you.
I'm not gonna make some stupid emo rage-- i'm quiting who wants my stuff comment but gezzz.. With a tight budget I sure won't be having multiple accounts if i gotta be paying 300 dollars a year for a main and alt account. I thought this game was cool cause it wasn't about how much real life money you had-- guess not. Thanks for ****ing me back into reality CCP.
- EFT screen shots are NOT an accurate example of a ship's abilities. |
Cynozac
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 06:50:00 -
[1080]
cancelled all three accounts
thanks for this ccp
|
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Draco Mortis
Dirty Deeds Corp. Axiom Empire
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 06:50:00 -
[1081]
They say Iceland Bankrupted. So maybe CCP living bad days too. They need mooneeeyyy.
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Balrokenx
Caldari ANZAC ALLIANCE Southern Cross Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 06:50:00 -
[1082]
Another stupid decision made by CCP.
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Cosy Ceaon
Gallente Aliastra
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 06:51:00 -
[1083]
Subscription Status:Active Expires:17.10.2008 20:30:53 no renew bye bye mofo
is a bug is a bug a buuuuuuuuuuuuug |
Flinchey
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 06:51:00 -
[1084]
Originally by: Catherine Frasier
Originally by: Gregorius Decimus Calling that ex-feature "a bug" is the most craziest thing, that I've ever heard in EvE... You've deployed that feature form the begining..
Not exactly true. As pointed out previously in this very thread this "feature" was discovered, not intended. Yes it has remained unaddressed for a long time but that doesn't make it any less of an accident.
are you stupid?
its IN THE SKILL TRAINING GUIDE ON THIS VERY WEBSITE
linked toover and over.
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Jogvan
coracao ardente Triumvirate.
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 06:51:00 -
[1085]
Cant be arsed to write a tl;dr post. This change sucks and with the reactions you see from the players you will probably end up getting less money to pay your salaries, server upgrades etc.
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Carsidava
Ars ex Discordia GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 06:53:00 -
[1086]
Originally by: Catherine Frasier
Originally by: Gregorius Decimus Calling that ex-feature "a bug" is the most craziest thing, that I've ever heard in EvE... You've deployed that feature form the begining..
Not exactly true. As pointed out previously in this very thread this "feature" was discovered, not intended. Yes it has remained unaddressed for a long time but that doesn't make it any less of an accident.
I'm curious, before today's devblog, where was it stated that ghost training was a bug? |
Elisa Day
Shade.
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 06:53:00 -
[1087]
What the hell is wrong with you people? Complaining about not being able to play the game while not paying? THE HORROR. I always considered dark training a bit iffy, personally, and I definitely will NOT be canceling any accounts I wasn't paying for in the first place!
I proudly support CCP 100% in this course of action!
There does need to be a RL e-mail reminder when your GTC time is about to expire, though.
|
dan drorgar
Minmatar Warped Mining
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 06:53:00 -
[1088]
Originally by: Jogvan Cant be arsed to write a tl;dr post. This change sucks and with the reactions you see from the players you will probably end up getting less money to pay your salaries, server upgrades etc.
This just in:
It's their latest idea to fix the lag, internal project name is PlayerlessMMO ...
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Catherine Frasier
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 06:54:00 -
[1089]
Originally by: Triksterism C'mon Cat, be real. If they really thought bad of this from day 1, then they would not or at least should not have promoted it as a feature. Plain 'ol bullshit tbh.
I don't think they thought this was bad from day 1, or at least not bad enough to worry about. (Of course, I also don't ever remember seeing them promote it as a feature.) What I think is that it was an accident, didn't really seem to present much of a problem, and so they let it slide. Now that it it starting to be a pain in the butt (or once somebody noticed just how much it's being exploited) they are fixing it.
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Cosy Ceaon
Gallente Aliastra
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 06:55:00 -
[1090]
Originally by: Flinchey
Originally by: Catherine Frasier
Originally by: Gregorius Decimus Calling that ex-feature "a bug" is the most craziest thing, that I've ever heard in EvE... You've deployed that feature form the begining..
Not exactly true. As pointed out previously in this very thread this "feature" was discovered, not intended. Yes it has remained unaddressed for a long time but that doesn't make it any less of an accident.
are you stupid?
its IN THE SKILL TRAINING GUIDE ON THIS VERY WEBSITE
linked toover and over.
is not stupid is a dev alt
is a bug is a bug a buuuuuuuuuuuuug |
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Pan Crastus
Anti-Metagaming League
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 06:55:00 -
[1091]
Originally by: Elisa Day What the hell is wrong with you people? Complaining about not being able to play the game while not paying? .
Gaining SP is not connected to playing in EVE and never was.
How to PVP: 1. buy ISK with GTCs, 2. fit cloak, learn aggro mechanics, 3. buy second account for metagaming
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ultima miner
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 06:56:00 -
[1092]
Edited by: ultima miner on 14/10/2008 06:58:58 well palyers wil fall behind isk wil be lost acounts wil never get on duel acounts wil be gone ccp best adverticement thing wil leave
what else can do do more wrong if the needed some more cash then scarrying the people of from eve asnwer me that ....................................................................................................................................
ITS SO WRONG DAMMIT/
can we dragg them to court for fruad for this?
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Triksterism
Gallente Frozen Corpse Inspection Services United Federation of Capsuleers
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 06:56:00 -
[1093]
Originally by: Catherine Frasier
Originally by: Triksterism C'mon Cat, be real. If they really thought bad of this from day 1, then they would not or at least should not have promoted it as a feature. Plain 'ol bullshit tbh.
I don't think they thought this was bad from day 1, or at least not bad enough to worry about. (Of course, I also don't ever remember seeing them promote it as a feature.) What I think is that it was an accident, didn't really seem to present much of a problem, and so they let it slide. Now that it it starting to be a pain in the butt (or once somebody noticed just how much it's being exploited) they are fixing it.
That is a bit BS. They didn't give a rat's ass until Iceland got all debt'ed up.
Originally by: Elisa Day What the hell is wrong with you people? Complaining about not being able to play the game while not paying? THE HORROR. I always considered dark training a bit iffy, personally, and I definitely will NOT be canceling any accounts I wasn't paying for in the first place!
I proudly support CCP 100% in this course of action!
There does need to be a RL e-mail reminder when your GTC time is about to expire, though.
Playing while not playing? Hardly. More like letting the clock tick while you're away from home doing other things. -
Ghost Train & Snowflake |
Terail Zoqial
Caldari
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 06:57:00 -
[1094]
It's about freaking time, hell, it's bad enough without the macro's that we have a bunch of free loaders using bandwidth we pay for. Hope the whining carebears leave tbh.
|
Triksterism
Gallente Frozen Corpse Inspection Services United Federation of Capsuleers
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 06:58:00 -
[1095]
Edited by: Triksterism on 14/10/2008 06:59:04 Edited by: Triksterism on 14/10/2008 06:58:17
Originally by: Terail Zoqial It's about freaking time, hell, it's bad enough without the macro's that we have a bunch of free loaders using bandwidth we pay for. Hope the whining carebears leave tbh.
So, the bandwidth isn't paid for by the $ from carebears and macros as well? I guess their money goes to a special place. QQ, I feel unspecial!
Also, people ghost training doesn't use bandwidth FYI. -
Ghost Train & Snowflake |
Kazuma Saruwatari
Caldari
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 06:58:00 -
[1096]
Subscription Status: Cancelled Will be suspended 12/31/2008 Total Number Of Payments: 14 Expires: 12/31/2008 3:54:05 PM Remaining Playtime: 78d:9h:2m
End of this year, CCP. You have till then of me. Also, LOL at making it hard for me to access my own account details and preventing me from properly cancelling my account. -
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INF Wonderwoman
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 06:59:00 -
[1097]
Originally by: Terail Zoqial It's about freaking time, hell, it's bad enough without the macro's that we have a bunch of free loaders using bandwidth we pay for. Hope the whining carebears leave tbh.
Ghost Training takes no bandwidth.... the account is inactive. All it takes is space on the server to record the skill that is being trained, the time it will take to finish, and the time it was started.
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SSgt Sniper
Gallente MAIDS
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 06:59:00 -
[1098]
Edited by: SSgt Sniper on 14/10/2008 06:59:30
Originally by: Catherine Frasier
Originally by: Triksterism C'mon Cat, be real. If they really thought bad of this from day 1, then they would not or at least should not have promoted it as a feature. Plain 'ol bullshit tbh.
I don't think they thought this was bad from day 1, or at least not bad enough to worry about. (Of course, I also don't ever remember seeing them promote it as a feature.) What I think is that it was an accident, didn't really seem to present much of a problem, and so they let it slide. Now that it it starting to be a pain in the butt (or once somebody noticed just how much it's being exploited) they are fixing it.
1. Click player guide to your left. 2. Click number six, Guides. 3. go down to the bottom half of the last grouping, Skills. 4. Go to the third paragraph, under How to train skills, below two blue boxes. 5. Read the first line. 6. Realize it's been there for something like four years. 7. tell me with a straight face it's a bug.
------- CEO of Maids. No I didn't pick the name. I've grown rather fond of it though.
|
Furnak Tye
Caldari Mortis Angelus The Church.
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 06:59:00 -
[1099]
Edited by: Furnak Tye on 14/10/2008 07:00:05 1. There was a way to progress a character in EVE without an active subscription
So it took you 5 years to change this? Flimsy excuse you're peddling here.
2. CCP noticed a surge in the trend and decided to fix the leak
Oh rly! show us some proof, This just smacks of being a downright lie at the moment.
3. Players now have to pay a subscription for characters to have them progress
Here we have the real reason, money, money, money. ------------------------------------------- THE CAKE IS A LIE |
Seth Ruin
Minmatar Ominous Corp Ethereal Dawn
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 06:59:00 -
[1100]
Edited by: Seth Ruin on 14/10/2008 07:00:11
Originally by: Terail Zoqial It's about freaking time, hell, it's bad enough without the macro's that we have a bunch of free loaders using bandwidth we pay for. Hope the whining carebears leave tbh.
As has been stated before: An inactive account uses zero bandwidth (no information is sent to/from CCP servers to/from an outside source), and due to the way skill training works, checking for inactive accounts will actually add workload to the servers.
Edit: And I was beaten like a redheaded stepchild to the punch.
-- (CCP Inconsistency) |
|
Sergil
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 06:59:00 -
[1101]
I intended to print a lot of words, but in a 35-page thread with 5 posting per minute all the words are already have been said. So just a little.
CCP you systematically change EVE from the 'game for the serious man' to the 'game for teenage masturbators'. I don't like it.
CCP you haven't trained 'Calculator' skill yet. To realize 'Ghost training' i need to pay for at least 4 60-day GTC ($139.80) per year. Two 6-months subscriptions will cost $143.40. Damn! Tell me your PayPal account, CCP, and I send you that bloody $3.60 for the right to have a little relaxation from time to time.
And finally, CCP you should write on the wall the number of currently payed accounts. I don't think that you even get close to this figure during the 2008 and 2009 years.
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Catherine Frasier
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 06:59:00 -
[1102]
Originally by: Flinchey
Originally by: Catherine Frasier As pointed out previously in this very thread this "feature" was discovered, not intended.
are you stupid?
its IN THE SKILL TRAINING GUIDE ON THIS VERY WEBSITE
linked toover and over.
Yes. The guide describes the way things are. It does not say anything about whether or not that was an accident.
|
Mecinia Lua
Galactic Express Burning Horizons
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 07:01:00 -
[1103]
With the economic collapse in Iceland I feel folks are being kinda harsh.
Skill training is part of the game. No other game allows you to train while not paying a subscription. The fact EVE allowed it so long was because it most likely wasn't hurting their bottom line.
Now things are different in Iceland. They gotta look at where they can cut and trim so that they can remain in business and keep giving us the game we've all enjoyed for so long.
I had to give up my other account in 2007 because I had personal financial problems. So I understand how folks feel, in fact I"m not sure my card will be renewed this December so I'm not sure how I'll pay for EVE next year if they don't renew it.
I know others have hit hard times too.
Still I don't rail against CCP for doing what they can to trim cost and keep themselves in business.
Meci
Thoughts expressed are mine and mine alone. They do not necessarily reflect my alliances thoughts. |
Sharingla
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 07:02:00 -
[1104]
Originally by: Horny Scientist All you complainers!!!! Jesus!! blah blah blah blah
1. It's obvious CCP's decision is final, whining till the cows come home will do no good. At least not for now.
2. Yes, CCP is doing a disservice to players who subscribe on and off due to rl demands. Without ghost training they fall further behind. Well thats a small percentage of ppl who take advantage of ghost training. Too bad. See the forum full of toon sellers? Complain to those hundreds of abusers who buy 30d gtcs just to train toons to SELL! Hey they ruined it. Good thing they removed 30d gtcs too.
3. A small percentage of players will complain like hell. Empty barrels make the most noise. Too bad. But the end result? The EXTRA number of subscriptions (by hardcore EVE obsessed fans) just to keep toons training will cover the subscriptions lost. The is the exact prediction CCP's marketing dept has I'm sure.
4. So complain all you like now, life goes on. However, if half the eve population quits because of this, I'm sure they'll bring ghost training back. But, hey, hell will freeze over too if that happened.
5. Oh and iceland's going bankrupt! Give them a break!!!!
I'm not mad because they are killing ghost training I'm mad because they can't stop lying to our faces!
|
doofydoo
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 07:02:00 -
[1105]
im almost tempted to take a note of each character posting cancellation details in here, adding them to my address book and seeing how many log on after their cancellation date.
this was gonna be disabled a couple of years ago, CCP decided against it, it was always in the works i dont know why people are so shocked and angry now.
its not a life changer people...
|
speedek
Destructive Influence Band of Brothers
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 07:03:00 -
[1106]
Bravo bravo...
Shitty walking in stations you notice 2years before it's even in making and such thing u notice 2 days before patch, bravo really..
|
Anshin Wataru
Caldari Sarz'na Khumatari Ushra'Khan
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 07:03:00 -
[1107]
So you're telling me I won't be suckered back into given CCP more $$$ by the knowledge that I don't have a skill training anymore?
Thats great, and here I thought I'd never be able to get rid of this game! |
Elisa Day
Shade.
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 07:03:00 -
[1108]
I don't remember this outrage the last time they said they were fixing this, what's changed now?
I'm also noticing that most people in this thread are 1. people with no tickers or 2. Goonswarm. What's up?
|
SSgt Sniper
Gallente MAIDS
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 07:04:00 -
[1109]
Originally by: Mecinia Lua With the economic collapse in Iceland I feel folks are being kinda harsh.
Skill training is part of the game. No other game allows you to train while not paying a subscription. The fact EVE allowed it so long was because it most likely wasn't hurting their bottom line.
Now things are different in Iceland. They gotta look at where they can cut and trim so that they can remain in business and keep giving us the game we've all enjoyed for so long.
I had to give up my other account in 2007 because I had personal financial problems. So I understand how folks feel, in fact I"m not sure my card will be renewed this December so I'm not sure how I'll pay for EVE next year if they don't renew it.
I know others have hit hard times too.
Still I don't rail against CCP for doing what they can to trim cost and keep themselves in business.
Meci
That's absolutely fine with 90% of the people here if they would TELL US THE TRUTH instead of making something that was always bragged about by TomB and Ovuer back in the day suddenly a bug. ------- CEO of Maids. No I didn't pick the name. I've grown rather fond of it though.
|
James Marshalll
Gallente
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 07:04:00 -
[1110]
Originally by: Catherine Frasier
Originally by: Flinchey
Originally by: Catherine Frasier As pointed out previously in this very thread this "feature" was discovered, not intended.
are you stupid?
its IN THE SKILL TRAINING GUIDE ON THIS VERY WEBSITE
linked toover and over.
Yes. The guide describes the way things are. It does not say anything about whether or not that was an accident.
let me give you a little hint about software development, and more importantly let me give you a clue about game security.
IF YOU HAVE A FREAKING FEATURE THAT IS A BUG AND YOU DONT WANT PEOPLE TO USE IT THE LAST THING YOU DO IS DOCUMENT IT IN YOUR PLAYER GUIDE.
Please fanboi, (or girl) move on. We get it, you are either a GM alt, in love with CCP or can't see past your own nose.
|
|
Zabaticus
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 07:04:00 -
[1111]
I've been reading this blog with interest and have posted my agreement with the removal of this feature a couple of times. I am struck by the people that say they are the player base and CCP better listen to them. These couple of hundred that have posted and reposted are not the player base. They are whiners that are upset because they can't game "The Game" anymore. Tough - leave. The tens of thousands of players that don't use this gambit will be glad to see you go. They are the real "Player Base" that CCP is supporting.
Zabaticus
|
Triksterism
Gallente Frozen Corpse Inspection Services United Federation of Capsuleers
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 07:05:00 -
[1112]
Originally by: Elisa Day I don't remember this outrage the last time they said they were fixing this, what's changed now?
I'm also noticing that most people in this thread are 1. people with no tickers or 2. Goonswarm. What's up?
I have a ticker. >:(
Most people are afraid to post with their mains for some odd reason. One of my friends simply can't post with his main as it is currently ghosting (5 days left, grats to him). -
Ghost Train & Snowflake |
Megumi Yumiko
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 07:05:00 -
[1113]
1. There was a way to progress a character in EVE without an active subscription <that is a must to stay in line with the rest of the chareters 2. CCP noticed a surge in the trend and decided to fix the leak <its not a leak it was something the advertsided about 3. Players now have to pay a subscription for characters to have them progress <wil hurt players there wallet and bief ccp's up
|
Seth Ruin
Minmatar Ominous Corp Ethereal Dawn
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 07:05:00 -
[1114]
Originally by: Catherine Frasier Yes. The guide describes the way things are. It does not say anything about whether or not that was an accident.
I defy you to find another "accident" listed in the player guide. With your logic, this surely can't be the one and only?
What about... User interface? Maybe they should put something in the guide about how the user interface will jump around? Of course it's not intended for the UI to act as such, but it is an accurate representation of what is happening.
Or maybe... Missile kiting? I think the guide should describe that ships going fast enough will never be hit by missiles. Not that CCP intended it to work this way, but it's how the game works now, right?
Or am I missing the point? Are you simply saying "they can claim it's a bug now without any warning simply because they're CCP?" I like what another poster said before: "How long until training skills while offline is considered a 'bug?"
-- (CCP Inconsistency) |
Ms Pussycat
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 07:05:00 -
[1115]
Originally by: algorythm For those quitting game, please contract your items to algorythm, direct isk transfers are also welcome, thank you
Can't you just ask someone in ccp to spawn items for you? Its easier and you get to choose the items!
|
chiisai sakana
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 07:07:00 -
[1116]
Originally by: Elisa Day I don't remember this outrage the last time they said they were fixing this, what's changed now?
I'm also noticing that most people in this thread are 1. people with no tickers or 2. Goonswarm. What's up?
maybe it was the way they informed us about it
|
doofydoo
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 07:07:00 -
[1117]
Originally by: SSgt Sniper
Originally by: Mecinia Lua With the economic collapse in Iceland I feel folks are being kinda harsh.
Skill training is part of the game. No other game allows you to train while not paying a subscription. The fact EVE allowed it so long was because it most likely wasn't hurting their bottom line.
Now things are different in Iceland. They gotta look at where they can cut and trim so that they can remain in business and keep giving us the game we've all enjoyed for so long.
I had to give up my other account in 2007 because I had personal financial problems. So I understand how folks feel, in fact I"m not sure my card will be renewed this December so I'm not sure how I'll pay for EVE next year if they don't renew it.
I know others have hit hard times too.
Still I don't rail against CCP for doing what they can to trim cost and keep themselves in business.
Meci
That's absolutely fine with 90% of the people here if they would TELL US THE TRUTH instead of making something that was always bragged about by TomB and Ovuer back in the day suddenly a bug.
im far from a CCP fanboi, theyve ****** me off no end with some of their changes, but how are they lying? Last time it was talked about they said it wasnt an intentional feature right?
theyve also told you... its a business move
what more do you need?
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doofydoo
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Posted - 2008.10.14 07:07:00 -
[1118]
Originally by: chiisai sakana
Originally by: Elisa Day I don't remember this outrage the last time they said they were fixing this, what's changed now?
I'm also noticing that most people in this thread are 1. people with no tickers or 2. Goonswarm. What's up?
maybe it was the way they informed us about it
last time the sneaked it into the patch notes. that was better?
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Hayleine
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Posted - 2008.10.14 07:08:00 -
[1119]
Originally by: Catherine Frasier
Originally by: Morgon Borga You'd think they'd at least be smart enough to remove all references to the "bug" as an intended feature before posting this garbage.
For example?
the example you seek, is from the eve-online new player guide, > skills - paragraph #3 "Skills continue training even if you are logged off or if your account is inactive (in the second scenario you can't change skill training, though)." CCP's "bug" excuse is a pile of bovine excrement.
to Quote CCP "capsuleers who actively put their time and energy into working on their characters will no longer be unfairly affected by those few who have not."
So, is CCP Implying that MORE people complained about other people "Ghost training" than are currently complaining about NOT being able to do it? Not possible!
the possibility of me resurrecting that 3rd account I had, has been greatly diminished. -1
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Mr Friendly
That it Should Come to This
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Posted - 2008.10.14 07:08:00 -
[1120]
I don't really have a problem with this change as it seemed odd to me that people could gain advantage in Eve without paying for it (don't tell me ghost-training high-rank skills that open up new ship classes/weapons/battlefield prowess don't confer advantage to players--- you'd be lying through your teeth).
However, as usual CCP has handled the PR aspect with all the grace of an angry rhinoceros in a fine china shop.
Seriously CCP... put more thought into how you present significant changes/announcements. Your truly stupid in your approach; the phrase "'Chimp with Downs' stupid" springs handily to mind.
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INF Wonderwoman
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Posted - 2008.10.14 07:09:00 -
[1121]
Originally by: Zabaticus I've been reading this blog with interest and have posted my agreement with the removal of this feature a couple of times. I am struck by the people that say they are the player base and CCP better listen to them. These couple of hundred that have posted and reposted are not the player base. They are whiners that are upset because they can't game "The Game" anymore. Tough - leave. The tens of thousands of players that don't use this gambit will be glad to see you go. They are the real "Player Base" that CCP is supporting.
Zabaticus
There have almost been 90 pages of post about people talking about this issue, with about 80% or more that are against it in less then a day. I agree there are many individuals(including myself) posting several different points, but there are still plenty of different people to make a good portion of the player base. Again note, it has not even been a full day yet, many more will voice there opinions.
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Sharingla
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Posted - 2008.10.14 07:09:00 -
[1122]
Originally by: doofydoo
Originally by: chiisai sakana
Originally by: Elisa Day I don't remember this outrage the last time they said they were fixing this, what's changed now?
I'm also noticing that most people in this thread are 1. people with no tickers or 2. Goonswarm. What's up?
maybe it was the way they informed us about it
last time the sneaked it into the patch notes. that was better?
they just need someone to pull their head out of their "sun doens't shine here" place before they do these things.
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Velda Chulai
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Posted - 2008.10.14 07:09:00 -
[1123]
How is CCP affected by iceland's crash? The vast majority of their money is made in Euros, US Dollars, and GBPounds, not in the Kr=na. Besides that, they have assets locked up in a US based office, and they own a huge RPG developer based in the United States.
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doofydoo
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 07:09:00 -
[1124]
oh, anyone please contact me if you want to offload any alts cheap :)
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Juntar Solarwind
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Posted - 2008.10.14 07:09:00 -
[1125]
Originally by: INF Wonderwoman
Originally by: Juntar Solarwind I'm not saying its a country, just pointing out that you maybe willing to step aside and let this game go, but we as players have an option to discuss our opinions and actually have a chance, how ever small it maybe, to change there decision. So by all means, step aside, I will not.
I pay to keep my main and my alt active every month. How is that fair to me to get my money worth when you may let your accounts go inactive and get the same services I get, but for free. I will continue to pay my $30 a month (lil less actually since I buy in bulk) but CCP has made it balanced.
People keep complaining about "it's not the money, it's that they are sneaky bastards." but everyone who says that, says they can't afford to run x ammount of accounts anymore. Sounds like money issues to me.
lol... It's fair because you have the same option that I have to do so. No one told you you had to pay that month, you did because you wanted to play with both accounts. It would be unfair if I was given the option and you were not.
So you don't want to play on your second account, or can't afford it, or forgot to pay your bill, but think you should still be receiving the benefit of "offline progression". Hmm... let me not pay my light bill this month and see what happens next month.
Does your light bill(electric company) allow you to do that? No, invalid argument to fairness point. You just went from talking about the fairness of this being implemented to talking about the reason behind keeping it... Anyway my reasons are simply. 1. Bring people back to the game 2. Allows people to have a RL 3. Makes it easier to run several accounts 4. Makes grinding long skills tolerable 5. Adds a unique "I don't feel like I HAVE to play the game to enjoy it" factor
Point 5 is the main reason I started EVE, with other mmo's you feel like you have to be there to get anything out of it. Eve not only with the offline, but the inactive account skill training made me comfortable with playing it on my own time.
Point 1 - Give the masses something for free so that they come back down the road with no penalties for not having been here.
Point 2 - What does having or not having a RL have to do with this game. I pay for 2 accounts, work 40+ hours a week, married, have kids... I play and have a RL. Should my game be free if I do or don't have a RL?
Point 3 - If you want 3 accounts and can't afford all 3, then you should just have 1.
Point 4 - Uhm.. grinding BS V, Carrier V, Dread V, etc is gonna take just as long paying or not paying... oops, with the next patch it actually will take longer if you don't pay.
Point 5 - More like "damn, I can't get those SP for free anymore."
I agree the offline progression is a plus.. you don't have to grind it out, but it's just being greedy that you can do it and expect to be able to do it while inactive.
Want to take time off and not play for a week or two or longer... no problem, your character continues to progress while you take the time off. But you should still have to pay for it.
I do agree that there could have been more of a warning or a better excuse than what was used, but come on... it does balance things out and all the whining really is about $$.
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Kell Braugh
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Posted - 2008.10.14 07:11:00 -
[1126]
just wait for the surge in canceled subscriptions.
Just added one to start off your pile.
- EFT screen shots are NOT an accurate example of a ship's abilities. |
Catherine Frasier
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Posted - 2008.10.14 07:11:00 -
[1127]
Edited by: Catherine Frasier on 14/10/2008 07:12:51
Originally by: Triksterism That is a bit BS. They didn't give a rat's ass until Iceland got all debt'ed up.
Iceland's economy is in trouble. We, however, pay for our Eve subscriptions in Dollars and Euros which have just skyrocketed in comparison to Iceland's currency. So the plummeting ISK makes our payments to CCP worth more, and more, and more.
What's you're doing is making the post hoc ergo propter hoc mistake. That is assuming that because thing 1 happens after thing 2 therefore thing 1 was caused by thing 2. It's also pretty silly to think that this decision is going to result in an immediate and significant cash infusion of the type needed to "fix" a catastrophic economic crash.
Much more likely that they did give a rat's ass for some time and just didn't mention it to you.
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Malcanis
RuffRyders Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2008.10.14 07:11:00 -
[1128]
Originally by: doofydoo oh, anyone please contact me if you want to offload any alts cheap :)
Hit me up in game if you're interested in an 18.75M SP alt getting ready for dread training. Perfect learnings, Nav skills are done.
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Yakumo Smith
Gallente When Darkness Falls
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Posted - 2008.10.14 07:12:00 -
[1129]
Someone summed it up nicely in the sea of posts overnight.
CCP will see a massive amount of resubscriptions in the short term as characters affected by this log on to train skills. They will also see a massive influx of income from transfer fees between characters.
Clearly they need cash quickly and are counting on being able to recover from the lost accounts gradually over the next year.
Sore point is, if you'd come out with that first, you'd have more new subscriptions from people showing support. Now we just think you are money grubbing.
Let's see if you actually recover after this, I hope the short burst of income was really neccessary.
Yak
I suppose this must be my sig. I'll do something cool with it eventually. |
Gig Malchura
Frozen Corpse Inspection Services United Federation of Capsuleers
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Posted - 2008.10.14 07:12:00 -
[1130]
Originally by: Elisa Day I don't remember this outrage the last time they said they were fixing this, what's changed now?
I'm also noticing that most people in this thread are 1. people with no tickers or 2. Goonswarm. What's up?
Look again sweetheart, your several hours and more than 2000 posts behind (counting locked thread)
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VLAD DRACU
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Posted - 2008.10.14 07:13:00 -
[1131]
Originally by: Elisa Day
I'm also noticing that most people in this thread are 1. people with no tickers... What's up?
it might be just people who pay their sub, huh?? maybe are they inferior to those with tickers...
i luv wise guys
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Kryttos
Hard Corp Carbide and Diamonds Alliance
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Posted - 2008.10.14 07:13:00 -
[1132]
god lot of whiners on here. CCP is a business. They have to make money, the end. If you dont like it... move off the planet, because thats every business, everywhere.
I never used this feature, and never intended to.
Now all you whiners, take your wambulance and go to WoW, because they could always use more whiners.
Also as a side note.. is it bad that I only read the comments from the big alliances ( IE: BOB, Goons, etc )
[email protected] |
Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.10.14 07:14:00 -
[1133]
Quote: Now I'm not saying that if me personally would be at the other end of this Dev Blog I wouldn't be annoyed by CCP's actions. We are gamers. We game the system. We figure out how to maximize our returns. There's no surprise that people have done this for the simple fact that it wasn't banned per se and also for the fact that it was possible. But recently we have seen a surge in this behavior in a way that we were essentially supporting and maintaining a large number of customers that weren't paying us regular subscriptions. That's not fair towards CCP as a service provider and it's not fair towards other players that pay a subscription but don't make use of this bug.
Ok, found were it is called a bug. But it is still pretty logic on CCP part. If the % of players doing this is high I don't see why CCP should subsidize training high level skills on alts for free.
Let's see the logic: I have several accounts and most of them have R&D alts. I never left them go inactive to train the skills as I dislike the idea, but for me it would be easy and rewarding to do so. Plenty of skills requiring 1 month of more to train and they would be still getting RP while unsuscribed too. From what I know there is a larger number (at least a whole corporation was build around that) of R&D alts created and used that way. I can easily see why a gaming company would stop that.
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Stormwind Bloodfeather
Minmatar Sogdian Traders Inc
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Posted - 2008.10.14 07:14:00 -
[1134]
Dear CCP
I have been watching this thread, reading and contemplating my response to this particular issue. Here are my thoughts, for all it's worth to you.
1. You advertised this as an INTENDED FEATURE of the game... for years.
You know this, we know this, and no amount of obfuscation can hide this FACT.
2. Someone decided to make an ill thought out post, calling an advertised feature a bug, and then calling everyone who used it an exploiter. Made spurious claims that this upset game balance somehow and the player base was bad for using it.
You can't deny this "senior producer" has about as much PR skill as a rabid skunk, and REALLY should be kept off the forums. The only accurate thing he posted was "CCP is a greedy money chewing monster that just loves nerfing things".
3. To compound your errors, you implied that inactive accounts caused issues in your database.
You know as well as I do that this is spurious. I create, run, edit, and modify MySQL databases daily, some of respectable size. If inactive accounts are causing an issue in the database, then the problem can be rectified by shutting down your game and writing a PROPER database to handle the code. Attempting to pass such claims off as a reason and expecting us to buy it is insulting to say the least.
4. The only issue you address was skill training on inactive accounts.
The blatant REFUSAL to address other issues of inactive accounts which are realistically greater such as research rewards, market sales etc leads me to believe that it's ok to activate a research alt, begin a research/rewards session, stop paying for this character for 5-6 months or more and come back RICH.
Between my g/f and I we have 4 accounts. I have never Ghost trained, nor ever considered using the "feature" you advertised. I enjoy playing my characters entirely too much to let them languish unplayed.
My g/f and I are seriously contemplating unsubscribing our accounts. Not because of the change, it seems perfectly reasonable to expect to pay to advance in the game. What is causing us to consider unsubscribing is your handling of this. Tbh it smacks entirely too much of a John Smedley screw-up from SOE. Especially in the handling of the announcement and the subsequent "clarifications" to the policy.
As stated above, this "Senior Producer" should not be allowed to post on the forums again until he has some much needed education in the effects of badly worded announcements and the negative PR it can engender.
At this time my g/f and I have not unsubscribed, but we are seriously considering it. How you choose to handle this, what PR spin your INTELLIGENT producers and devs manage to eventually place on this and how it's implemented (if at all), will determine if we remain playing EVE, or if we sadly close our accounts and seek out different pastures.
Just one piece of advice. Never underestimate the intelligence of your subscribers. Don't talk down to them and expect them to suck it up and enjoy being lied to and disrespected. You will find that treating them as the intelligent and reasonable people they are, can make things surprisingly easy on you.
Stormwind Bloodfeather
In EVE, your only friend is your ship and it's weapons. All others are the enemy! |
Triksterism
Gallente Frozen Corpse Inspection Services United Federation of Capsuleers
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Posted - 2008.10.14 07:14:00 -
[1135]
Originally by: Catherine Frasier
Originally by: Triksterism That is a bit BS. They didn't give a rat's ass until Iceland got all debt'ed up.
Iceland's economy is in trouble. We, however, pay for our Eve subscriptions in Dollars and Euros which have just skyrocketed in comparison to Iceland's currency. So the plummeting ISK makes our payments to CCP worth more, and more, and more.
What's you're doing is making the post hoc ergo propter hoc mistake. That is assuming that because thing 1 happens after thing 2 therefore thing 1 was caused by thing 2. It's also pretty silly to think that this decision is going to result in an immediate and significant cash infusion of the time needed to "fix" a catastrophic economic crash.
Much more likely that they did give a rat's ass for some time and just didn't mention it to you.
The CCP employees live in Iceland, it's quite relative. Not to mention the blog even stated this was a financial endeavor. -
Ghost Train & Snowflake |
Megumi Yumiko
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 07:15:00 -
[1136]
well some of us has a big real live and we can't spare hte moeny and we don't have time for it and we can't keep always online and we can't change skils always and ccp is ****ing poeple off <that's there job right?>
the point is that's just foolish there current plan or just do something like this
10 mil for 1 week of ghost traning or something like that.. comeon think about it!!!
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Ceratin
Omega Enterprises 0mega Factor
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Posted - 2008.10.14 07:15:00 -
[1137]
Disabling ghost training.. bad call ccp
First off.. the reason your noticing peoples alt accounts arent being paid for is mainly because GTC prices have gone through the roof.
I used to pay 300mil for 90days, now it costs nearly double that for 60, i simply cant keep up 3 accounts at that price, neither can several of my corp mates.
Removing ghost training isnt going to do a whole lot apart from make me not want to bother reactiving my 3rd account which is currently offline since it isnt training atm anyway because i cant afford the gtc to bring it online to train skills.
Where do u get these silly ideas from? we've been telling you about this problem for months now but all that has been done is making the problem worse (no action on gtc price raise, 30/90day gtc removed, 60 day real price unreasonable, no cap on continuing rise of gtc>isk sales) ------------ All hail! Leader of the pod brigade.. |
doofydoo
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Posted - 2008.10.14 07:16:00 -
[1138]
Edited by: doofydoo on 14/10/2008 07:16:06
Originally by: Malcanis
Originally by: doofydoo oh, anyone please contact me if you want to offload any alts cheap :)
Hit me up in game if you're interested in an 18.75M SP alt getting ready for dread training. Perfect learnings, Nav skills are done.
1 bil :)
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RaTTuS
BIG Libertas Fidelitas
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Posted - 2008.10.14 07:16:00 -
[1139]
Edited by: RaTTuS on 14/10/2008 07:20:01 long needed change
as I keep my account active all the time ...
and will this also nurf the move pilot onto existing account and train on 2 characters thingy -- BIG Lottery, BIG Deal, InEve
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Kaplanelle
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.10.14 07:16:00 -
[1140]
Short notice to a radical change complete with disingenuous reasoning. CCP customer service still amazes me no end, at least Kieron's gone.
Think the power of 2 needs to be a permanent fixture if CCP wants to do this, and retroactively allow old accounts to use it. If they need cash to buy new blades, that's a good way to get a quick infusion. Most players have been patient about the pace of the games progress, but at the margin, there's just not enough interesting crap to do, especially for your more aged demographic.
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Catherine Frasier
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Posted - 2008.10.14 07:16:00 -
[1141]
Originally by: Stormwind Bloodfeather 1. You advertised this as an INTENDED FEATURE of the game... for years.
Got proof?
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SSgt Sniper
Gallente MAIDS
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Posted - 2008.10.14 07:17:00 -
[1142]
Originally by: Yakumo Smith Someone summed it up nicely in the sea of posts overnight.
CCP will see a massive amount of resubscriptions in the short term as characters affected by this log on to train skills. They will also see a massive influx of income from transfer fees between characters.
Clearly they need cash quickly and are counting on being able to recover from the lost accounts gradually over the next year.
Sore point is, if you'd come out with that first, you'd have more new subscriptions from people showing support. Now we just think you are money grubbing.
Let's see if you actually recover after this, I hope the short burst of income was really neccessary.
Yak
You know, you're absolutely right. If they had said we're doing this because financially our assets have been hurt, I'd have gone and bought a GTC and never even used it, just to give them a hand. I can afford the forty bucks. Or I could give it to some of the people I know that drifted off and let them play for a couple months, and maybe they decide to come back and stay for a while.
However, I do believe they've lied about the why, so I'm doing the exact opposite. ------- CEO of Maids. No I didn't pick the name. I've grown rather fond of it though.
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INF Wonderwoman
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Posted - 2008.10.14 07:17:00 -
[1143]
Originally by: Yakumo Smith Someone summed it up nicely in the sea of posts overnight.
CCP will see a massive amount of resubscriptions in the short term as characters affected by this log on to train skills. They will also see a massive influx of income from transfer fees between characters.
Clearly they need cash quickly and are counting on being able to recover from the lost accounts gradually over the next year.
Sore point is, if you'd come out with that first, you'd have more new subscriptions from people showing support. Now we just think you are money grubbing.
Let's see if you actually recover after this, I hope the short burst of income was really neccessary.
Yak
I think I made that basic point before about the quick influx of money.
<--- Nail alt, good to see another former TFC person
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Carsidava
Ars ex Discordia GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.10.14 07:18:00 -
[1144]
Originally by: Catherine Frasier
Originally by: Stormwind Bloodfeather 1. You advertised this as an INTENDED FEATURE of the game... for years.
Got proof?
I'm still waiting for your proof that this is a bug. |
Ace Frehley
Minmatar The Movement
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Posted - 2008.10.14 07:19:00 -
[1145]
Meh, was about to take a break from the game, wont use this char anymore. Bye bye eve, lost atleast 1 account, dunno if I gonna keep my non blinky char
signature is not EVE related, please change. ~WeatherMan |
Medusa d'Mon
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Posted - 2008.10.14 07:21:00 -
[1146]
Thanks CCP.
I've being playing and paying for this game non stop on 2 accounts since EA pulled the plug on EnB and I'm currently on 4 accounts. I put 3 accounts into 'ghost training' a week ago for various RL reasons including financial restraints and you choose now to make the change.
I was looking forward to logging onto 2 chars with Caldari BS5 1 month later (yes, just 1 month). I can't change my current RL financial situation and nor will you. I guess as there is no good reason to re-susbcribe after my months break, I will probably leave it another month and save myself an extra few pennies. I won't be re-activating all 4 accounts either. I'm sure you will understand.
I know CCP is based in the country with the highest per-capita number of financial experts out of all the volcanic island living nations with populations lower than 5mil, so I guess this move of yours must have been thought out by financial wizards.
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Pan Crastus
Anti-Metagaming League
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Posted - 2008.10.14 07:21:00 -
[1147]
Originally by: Stormwind Bloodfeather
I create, run, edit, and modify MySQL databases daily,[...] and writing a PROPER database to handle the code.
Although I sympathize with your cause, this is where your post falls apart ...
How to PVP: 1. buy ISK with GTCs, 2. fit cloak, learn aggro mechanics, 3. buy second account for metagaming
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ArmyOfMe
Developmental Neogenics Amalgamated
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Posted - 2008.10.14 07:22:00 -
[1148]
for those of you quiting/deactivating accounts atm, feel free to transfer your chars with more then 20mill sp to me
Originally by: deadmaus
Because by the time we had calmed Plague down after he heard BoB were back in the vicinity it was too late to do anything |
Solar Ray
Vanishing Point
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Posted - 2008.10.14 07:23:00 -
[1149]
The change is completely fair from business point of view. However, it is not as simple, as you may be aware. On one hand you close the "unpaid gaps" in someone's subscription. On the other hand, taking breaks from the game happens not only for financial reasons. Sometimes people just get tired, get some real life stuff do deal with and so forth. Having that BS5 skill to return to is a nice incentive to actually return to the game after these kinds of breaks.
I know for certain that when I will get bored with EVE, I am not likely to come back to the very spot that got me bored in the first place.
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SSgt Sniper
Gallente MAIDS
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Posted - 2008.10.14 07:24:00 -
[1150]
Originally by: Carsidava
Originally by: Catherine Frasier
Originally by: Stormwind Bloodfeather 1. You advertised this as an INTENDED FEATURE of the game... for years.
Got proof?
I'm still waiting for your proof that this is a bug.
If I could navigate the dev finder stuff worth a damn I'd go look for how TomB used to talk about this feature being one of the cool quirky things that made EVE different. Alas........effort.
Going to bed now. Looking forward to hearing the forums melted after dt. o/ ------- CEO of Maids. No I didn't pick the name. I've grown rather fond of it though.
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doofydoo
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Posted - 2008.10.14 07:24:00 -
[1151]
am i missing something here?
people with inactive accounts are saying they will cancel them because they cant train them whilst inactive right?
is ccp actually losing money here? they are already inactive.
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Rancid Oswald
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Posted - 2008.10.14 07:25:00 -
[1152]
Look, and I.m looking at those rage quiters and whiners.
My father always told me "You don't get something for nothing!"
CCP are in their own right to remove Ghost Training, after all people, myself included, when taking a break or simply can't afford to pay for 1 month made sure I had a 30+ day skill to train before the sub ended.
We got something for free, in essence you could traind 12 months of skills and pay only 6 Months. Then simply sell that char. Its called char farming!
I support this change, and yes if it was never implimented there would be nothing to whine about. If it got implimented 1 year ago, I still wouldn/t have quit even though I took breaks. A Skill point or 1mill is simply not worth the "Argh rage quit!" Those who do rage quit over this are simply sad induviduals with nothing else important in RL!
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Catherine Frasier
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Posted - 2008.10.14 07:25:00 -
[1153]
Originally by: Triksterism The majority of CCP employees reside in Iceland, I'd say the financial situation, no matter what currency is being sucked in, is quite relative. Not to mention the blog even stated this was a financial endeavor.
But they didn't say anything about Iceland's economy. As you say, it's relative. Now CCP's expenses in krona(the wages for those employees you mentioned) have just dropped like a rock compared to their income in dollars and euros. That's good, not bad.
It's also an excellent reason to go to fanfest, the way the krona crashed beer is like half-price there now.
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Crewman Jenkins
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 07:25:00 -
[1154]
MST3K is awesome.
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Stormwind Bloodfeather
Minmatar Sogdian Traders Inc
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 07:25:00 -
[1155]
Originally by: Catherine Frasier
Originally by: Stormwind Bloodfeather 1. You advertised this as an INTENDED FEATURE of the game... for years.
Got proof?
Proof"Skills continue training even if you are logged off or if your account is inactive (in the second scenario you can't change skill training, though)"
This can be found in the "How to train skills" section at the beginning of the third paragraph. CCP's own words.
Stormwind
In EVE, your only friend is your ship and it's weapons. All others are the enemy! |
Tunnas
Amarr Delusions 0f Grandeur G00DFELLAS
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 07:26:00 -
[1156]
Originally by: Catherine Frasier
Originally by: Stormwind Bloodfeather 1. You advertised this as an INTENDED FEATURE of the game... for years.
Got proof?
proof
Skills continue training even if you are logged off or if your account is inactive (in the second scenario you can't change skill training, though). Signature exceeds the maximum allowed filesize of 24000 bytes.Navigator |
Joskken Inx
PURE Legion Pure.
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Posted - 2008.10.14 07:26:00 -
[1157]
Originally by: Kryttos god lot of whiners on here. CCP is a business. They have to make money, the end. If you dont like it... move off the planet, because thats every business, everywhere.
I never used this feature, and never intended to.
Now all you whiners, take your wambulance and go to WoW, because they could always use more whiners.
Also as a side note.. is it bad that I only read the comments from the big alliances ( IE: BOB, Goons, etc )
Why bother posting if all you're doing is saying shit like "take your wambulance blah blah back to wow" Really childish, but I'm just supposing you didn't read but a couple posts before you made your insightful and intelligent discourse on the subject? ------------------------------------------------ "Skills continue training even if you are logged off or if your account is inactive (in the second scenario you can't change skill training, though). |
Triksterism
Gallente Frozen Corpse Inspection Services United Federation of Capsuleers
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Posted - 2008.10.14 07:26:00 -
[1158]
Originally by: Medusa d'Mon Thanks CCP.
I've being playing and paying for this game non stop on 2 accounts since EA pulled the plug on EnB and I'm currently on 4 accounts. I put 3 accounts into 'ghost training' a week ago for various RL reasons including financial restraints and you choose now to make the change.
I was looking forward to logging onto 2 chars with Caldari BS5 1 month later (yes, just 1 month). I can't change my current RL financial situation and nor will you. I guess as there is no good reason to re-susbcribe after my months break, I will probably leave it another month and save myself an extra few pennies. I won't be re-activating all 4 accounts either. I'm sure you will understand.
I know CCP is based in the country with the highest per-capita number of financial experts out of all the volcanic island living nations with populations lower than 5mil, so I guess this move of yours must have been thought out by financial wizards.
Ahaha, gave me a chuckle with the "Financial wizards"
So here you go.
SORCERY! - Signature exceeds the maximum allowed filesize of 24000 bytes.Navigator Ghost Train & Snowflake |
Dibsi Dei
Salamyhkaisten kilta
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Posted - 2008.10.14 07:27:00 -
[1159]
Originally by: Sergil CCP you systematically change EVE from the 'game for the serious man' to the 'game for teenage masturbators'. I don't like it.
CCP you haven't trained 'Calculator' skill yet. To realize 'Ghost training' i need to pay for at least 4 60-day GTC ($139.80) per year. Two 6-months subscriptions will cost $143.40. Damn! Tell me your PayPal account, CCP, and I send you that bloody $3.60 for the right to have a little relaxation from time to time.
This
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CopyCatz
Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2008.10.14 07:27:00 -
[1160]
"CCP noticed a surge in the trend and decided to fix the leak."
I'm absolutely baffled by this. I know the PR department has 250 skillpoints in advance bad news relaying, but most customers are smart enough to understand what caused that surge. Guess we can only wait and see what will be taken from us in the now upcoming surge...
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Kryttos
Hard Corp Carbide and Diamonds Alliance
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Posted - 2008.10.14 07:29:00 -
[1161]
Speaking of.. I read on CNN that roundtrip to Iceland is now like $400 USD since the Krona is down.
[email protected] |
Kryttos
Hard Corp Carbide and Diamonds Alliance
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Posted - 2008.10.14 07:30:00 -
[1162]
um.... that sig is gonna get you banned =p
[email protected] |
Haks'he Lirky
Burning Bright Inc.
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Posted - 2008.10.14 07:30:00 -
[1163]
Edited by: Haks''he Lirky on 14/10/2008 07:31:10 A player ghost training is a potential returning player, sorry you do not see that. This is one of the reasons eve was unique and nice.
I have often heard the line "I cannot pay for EVE at the moment, I will stop playing for a while but at least I will have that lvl 5 skill done when I get back".
Sad day in EVE.
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Catherine Frasier
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Posted - 2008.10.14 07:31:00 -
[1164]
Originally by: Carsidava
Originally by: Catherine Frasier
Originally by: Stormwind Bloodfeather 1. You advertised this as an INTENDED FEATURE of the game... for years.
Got proof?
I'm still waiting for your proof that this is a bug.
It's unintentional, like jet-can mining. It happened, people exploit it, but nobody planned it to work out that way. Exactly what kind of proof do you expect there to be for "nobody thought about that"?
More to the point though if you want accuse someone of lying then the burden of proof is upon you to support such a charge. You know, like show me where they "dvertised this as an INTENDED FEATURE of the game... for years."
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Kell Braugh
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Posted - 2008.10.14 07:31:00 -
[1165]
Originally by: Kryttos Speaking of.. I read on CNN that roundtrip to Iceland is now like $400 USD since the Krona is down.
From where? Reality?
- EFT screen shots are NOT an accurate example of a ship's abilities. |
Jocho
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Posted - 2008.10.14 07:32:00 -
[1166]
Originally by: doofydoo am i missing something here?
people with inactive accounts are saying they will cancel them because they cant train them whilst inactive right?
is ccp actually losing money here? they are already inactive.
I think the key word is renew... End of the day, EvE is pretty much killing alt accounts by doing this as well as removing the appeal to casual gamers. A smaller market is never good.
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Dracorimus
Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2008.10.14 07:32:00 -
[1167]
Well my 2nd account is going inactvie now, thank god I managed to get rid of the 14m SP alt on it. . ≡v≡ powered |
Zey Nadar
Gallente Heavily Utilized Mechanic Mayhem Einherjar Alliance
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Posted - 2008.10.14 07:32:00 -
[1168]
Edited by: Zey Nadar on 14/10/2008 07:32:13 People who try to exploit things have those things taken away from them sooner or later.
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Maria Kalista
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Posted - 2008.10.14 07:33:00 -
[1169]
I think that what upsets most people is that this (undesired) feature is called a 'bug'.
CCP, you do not advertise with bugs do you? You don't have on several pages of your website described that upon undocking or launching your drones in battle, your in-game windows may rearrange themselves because of a bug, do you? You advertise that EVE is a PC/Linux/Mac game, but you don't advertise that only 1 out of those 3 platforms has access to premium content, do you?
So why, for years, do you have this feature: where training a skill continues even if you are not paying for the game itself, described on many of your webpages, suddenly called a "bug"? That smells bad, it sounds bad, and it feels like a blatant lie.
Besides that, I can understand that people should not have access to a game feature without paying for it.
Originally by: CCP Mitnal You put a bear in your tea???
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Chris Tao
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Posted - 2008.10.14 07:33:00 -
[1170]
FAILLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLBOAT, i just saw this a few hours ago. I just need to make 1000miljons real fast to be able to activate my 2 other accounts OR NOT
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Annaphera
Minmatar Super Green Industries
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Posted - 2008.10.14 07:34:00 -
[1171]
Originally by: Hayleine
Originally by: Catherine Frasier
Originally by: Morgon Borga You'd think they'd at least be smart enough to remove all references to the "bug" as an intended feature before posting this garbage.
For example?
the example you seek, is from the eve-online new player guide, > skills - paragraph #3 "Skills continue training even if you are logged off or if your account is inactive (in the second scenario you can't change skill training, though)." CCP's "bug" excuse is a pile of bovine excrement.
to Quote CCP "capsuleers who actively put their time and energy into working on their characters will no longer be unfairly affected by those few who have not."
So, is CCP Implying that MORE people complained about other people "Ghost training" than are currently complaining about NOT being able to do it? Not possible!
the possibility of me resurrecting that 3rd account I had, has been greatly diminished. -1
Dang, promised myself I wouldn't, but (to quote a song) it's like a train wreck...don't want to stare but you can't look away.
In response to the above...if you looked in the player guide a few years ago, there was a 'feature' listed that you had a chance to get a T2 BPO if you did research with R&D agents. Hmmm...don't seem to see that 'feature' any more, because CCP decided it was too overpowering, and ended the T2 'lottery'. Further, it WASN'T in the guide when the game came out - it was added later (T2 wasn't either); the guide, however, didn't state that (I've seen copied sections). So, I guess we can draw the conclusion that the Player Guide is just a list of all the things the game does right this moment, and doesn't comment on the origin and probable lifespan/destiny of any given function.
CCP is saying they didn't intend Ghost Training to exist, and a dev post talks about it being "discovered", so that is likely true. Thus, the idea that the 'bug' claim is a lie can't be backed up. No one has yet quoted an ad that tries to lure you in based on ghost training, so the whole "advertised feature" argument looks suspect. In short...while they may have been a bit abrupt, there is no way for anyone to flatly state they have lied without seeing only what they wish to. The blog did touch on financial concerns as a motivator for the change; you and I may choose to believe it was the biggest factor in the decision, but that's inconsequential. They have a legitimate right to do as they wish with regard to the rules of Eve, and they have shared some of their reasons. Some people are choosing to assign extra motives and then go into rages based on those conclusions, up to and including canceled accounts. Up to you...wish you the best, but I think you're getting bent out of shape over nothing. That's just my opinion, though.
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Catherine Frasier
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Posted - 2008.10.14 07:34:00 -
[1172]
Originally by: Tunnas
Originally by: Catherine Frasier
Originally by: Stormwind Bloodfeather 1. You advertised this as an INTENDED FEATURE of the game... for years.
Got proof?
proof
Skills continue training even if you are logged off or if your account is inactive (in the second scenario you can't change skill training, though).
For the 73357th time: Describing what happens is not the same thing as saying it was done that way on purpose. You put "INTENDED FEATURE" in caps and rightfully so, intent is the key question. Nowhere in the guide does it say "we planned it this way" rather than (like lots of other things in Eve) "it just worked out that way".
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Kryttos
Hard Corp Carbide and Diamonds Alliance
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Posted - 2008.10.14 07:34:00 -
[1173]
Ill try and find the link
More good news for Americans: Icelandair just slashed fares to Iceland's capital, Reykjavik, from New York or Boston to $400 roundtrip, about what a one-way fare once cost. This fare is good for travel November 1 through March 31, 2009.
As an add-on in November only, Icelandair is offering a 3-night ôWinter Madnessö package at the Hilton Reykjavik Nordica, with daily breakfast, for only $149 per person double occupancy. This top-rated hotel typically goes for over $200 per night.
[email protected] |
Shalo Mil'Chaim
Minmatar Recycling and Recovery
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Posted - 2008.10.14 07:34:00 -
[1174]
Originally by: Zey Nadar Edited by: Zey Nadar on 14/10/2008 07:32:13 People who try to exploit things have those things taken away from them sooner or later.
It wasn't an exploit for nearly 5 years. Try again.
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Arrs Grazznic
Poena Executive Solutions
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Posted - 2008.10.14 07:36:00 -
[1175]
Quote: Ghost Training was an unintended feature
It's been posted above, but NO IT WASN'T! The knowledge base states:
Quote: Skills continue training even if you are logged off or if your account is inactive
In the 3 and a bit years I've been playing EVE I've never Ghost Trained, yet I do not feel short changed or "unfairly affected by those few who have".
Personally I think Ghost Training is a good thing as it encourages players to return if they let their account lapse. When I decide to take a break from the game something that would make me consider returning is the knowledge a skill has finished training and I may be able to try something new in the game. Remove that ability and there is far less incentive to return.
While this is clearly intended to increase revenue I'm convinced you will lose out as a result of this. There will be fewer players returning after breaks and less people running alt accounts.
As this 'fix' will be implemented, are you going to go further with action against inactive accounts? If you are removing Ghost Training, I feel a number of other changes need to be made for accounts that lapse, for example:
Stop earning of RPCancellation of all market ordersCancellation of all manufacturing / research jobs (and freeing up the slot for use by other characters)Immediate expulsion from player corporations
If you are going to implement a change as proposed, you may as well go the whole hog.
On a positive note this will greatly reduce the price of GTCs!
Cheers, Arrs
Quote: Is it just me who says "what can I do in real life: drink beer; walk around; put on clothes; fly a spaceship firing at other spaceships" and then use that to choose what I do on the internet?
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ArmyOfMe
Developmental Neogenics Amalgamated
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Posted - 2008.10.14 07:37:00 -
[1176]
Edited by: ArmyOfMe on 14/10/2008 07:37:30
Originally by: Tunnas *moderated for the safty of the children*
I see a ban coming in the near future
Originally by: deadmaus
Because by the time we had calmed Plague down after he heard BoB were back in the vicinity it was too late to do anything |
CliveMerric
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Posted - 2008.10.14 07:37:00 -
[1177]
CCP please dont spit in our faces by announcing that one of the major selling points of the game is an 'unintended feature'. Its insulting....
im taking 2 of my accounts offline because you see fit to remove the 1 major reason i keep coming back to this game after i get bored for a while.
good job Clives BPC shop, Great deals!! |
Iota Belisarius
State Protectorate
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Posted - 2008.10.14 07:39:00 -
[1178]
Epic fail. This was the only reason I came back thanks to constant military deployments. --------------------- Your sig is inappropriate. Please read the forum rules before reposting. -Tirg Sig jacked and nerfed in one day, just my luck. |
12433412
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Posted - 2008.10.14 07:39:00 -
[1179]
Oh my god, CCP gone completely stupid. I hate to use such words, but I fail to find any other. You'll be firing the one who came with this great idea soon as you will (finally) find out what you have done. Losing the trust of your customers may be the first thing. Milking more and more (more expensive gtc's, now this screw up) the existing player base instead of attracting new players is the way to hell. You are about to take the first decisive step. There is no more money to be had from the current players as they give you as much as they find fit. Given most of those 'ghost' accounts are alt accounts that let people explore other aspects of the game and given (now we get to the trust part) they were mostly created because ghost training was possible - this is vastly unfair changing of rules in the mid-game. A lot of effort and meney have been put into those accounts and nobody in their wildest dream imagined you would do such a .... over-night. I can understand you can have your financial troubles given the state of the Icelandic economy, but this is a nail to your coffin, honestly. Aggrevating your loyal customers, what an idea! Why did you not think of that before, you must have been blind, the best thing to do...
I though you guys knew better and actually had brains. A child can see farther than you. Sorry to say that.
Regards
124
_____________________________________________________ Beware of what you want, it might want you more! |
Maria Huana
Caldari 4th FLEET of REDARMY Red Army Alliance
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Posted - 2008.10.14 07:41:00 -
[1180]
this will not reduce price of GTCs the price will grow if i`ll see 60d gtc for 600 mil next week - i will nit be surprised
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Catherine Frasier
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Posted - 2008.10.14 07:42:00 -
[1181]
Originally by: Arrs Grazznic
Quote: Ghost Training was an unintended feature
It's been posted above, but NO IT WASN'T! The knowledge base states:
Quote: Skills continue training even if you are logged off or if your account is inactive
As Annaphera said: Quote: if you looked in the player guide a few years ago, there was a 'feature' listed that you had a chance to get a T2 BPO if you did research with R&D agents. Hmmm...don't seem to see that 'feature' any more, because CCP decided it was too overpowering, and ended the T2 'lottery'. Further, it WASN'T in the guide when the game came out - it was added later (T2 wasn't either); the guide, however, didn't state that (I've seen copied sections). So, I guess we can draw the conclusion that the Player Guide is just a list of all the things the game does right this moment, and doesn't comment on the origin and probable lifespan/destiny of any given function.
As I said Quote: Describing what happens is not the same thing as saying it was done that way on purpose. Nowhere in the guide does it say "we planned it this way" rather than (like lots of other things in Eve) "it just worked out that way".
All you're pointing out is that it was unintended, but once it was discovered it was documented.
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Annaphera
Minmatar Super Green Industries
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Posted - 2008.10.14 07:43:00 -
[1182]
Originally by: CliveMerric CCP please dont spit in our faces by announcing that one of the major selling points of the game is an 'unintended feature'. Its insulting....
im taking 2 of my accounts offline because you see fit to remove the 1 major reason i keep coming back to this game after i get bored for a while.
good job
"Major selling point of the game"??? People keep saying this, and I just can't get my head around it. I see LOTS of ads for Eve around the web, and no small number of MMO sites...could someone point out the one they see that has this listed as a "major selling point" that is written by CCP? There's a dev post floating around that talks about ghost training as being "discovered"...how does one discover something one created intentionally?
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freddy madball
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Posted - 2008.10.14 07:43:00 -
[1183]
Originally by: Zabaticus I've been reading this blog with interest and have posted my agreement with the removal of this feature a couple of times. I am struck by the people that say they are the player base and CCP better listen to them. These couple of hundred that have posted and reposted are not the player base. They are whiners that are upset because they can't game "The Game" anymore. Tough - leave. The tens of thousands of players that don't use this gambit will be glad to see you go. They are the real "Player Base" that CCP is supporting.
Zabaticus
yes go visit an ice belt, or a asterid belt, or go to a popular missioning system and look at all the macroer's operating. then remind me about that " player base"
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Eran Laude
Gallente The Aduro Protocol
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Posted - 2008.10.14 07:43:00 -
[1184]
After reading the first 20 or so pages of the thread, it seems to me that the ghost-training alt-sellers are whining that they can't exploit a game mechanic that for all intents and purposes shouldn't exist.
I also hope this encourages more main playing rather than alt metagaming.
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Tunnas
Amarr Delusions 0f Grandeur G00DFELLAS
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Posted - 2008.10.14 07:43:00 -
[1185]
Originally by: ArmyOfMe Edited by: ArmyOfMe on 14/10/2008 07:37:30
Originally by: Tunnas *moderated for the safty of the children*
I see a ban coming in the near future
hehe that's aparrently what happens when you link some one elses signature and he gets mad...
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Derdre Esme
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Posted - 2008.10.14 07:44:00 -
[1186]
I understand this move but as many other ppl said i think it's an half good idea as personnally i Ghost train a lot (4 account) and i then have on average 2 active account at a time, if CCP do so il will not pay 4 account continuously , then i bet in the next weeks we will see -lot of char selling -lot of character transfert for concentration i think CCP will loose money on this move even if i understand them
The 'half-way' solution i think would be to unallow ghost training on Skill that have a factor of 6 or more
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FireFoxx80
Caldari E X O D U S Imperial Republic Of the North
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Posted - 2008.10.14 07:44:00 -
[1187]
I cba to read through 49+38 pages, however...
Why not re-enable ghost training, but at a vastly reduced rate to standard training?
What I do the rest of the time - Vote for a Jita bypass! |
Tyby
The Scope
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Posted - 2008.10.14 07:45:00 -
[1188]
it is all becose "ghost training bug" is crashing ze super-uber stacklessI0 crap! so, in fact is our own fault that the nodes are crashing and the CCP is just thinking to the good of his players...lol to the ppl that are saying that will put eve in line with others MMO: i don't really know others MMO where ppl have 6-8 accounts... to CCP: you are walking on a thin ice, eve is a great game, but all those nerfs in the last time, new gtc stuff/prices, this, and the suposed incoming nerfs plus the world crysis may crack that ice, and we all will lose from it.
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Jac Straw
Tribal Liberation Force
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Posted - 2008.10.14 07:46:00 -
[1189]
The only real whine I want about this is..
Remove ghost sell/buy orders and Research points
Without this the game is unbalanced
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Kazuo Ishiguro
House of Marbles Zzz
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Posted - 2008.10.14 07:46:00 -
[1190]
I'm surprised that CCP chose to wait until this particular moment to fix this problem. Ghost training was removed from Serenity, the Chinese server, years ago. --- DIY copying in Liekuri 20:1 mineral compression Eve Online folding@home team |
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Arrs Grazznic
Poena Executive Solutions
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Posted - 2008.10.14 07:47:00 -
[1191]
Originally by: Catherine Frasier As I said Quote: Describing what happens is not the same thing as saying it was done that way on purpose. Nowhere in the guide does it say "we planned it this way" rather than (like lots of other things in Eve) "it just worked out that way".
All you're pointing out is that it was unintended, but once it was discovered it was documented.
So where does it say that this was unintended?
Cheers, Arrs
Quote: Is it just me who says "what can I do in real life: drink beer; walk around; put on clothes; fly a spaceship firing at other spaceships" and then use that to choose what I do on the internet?
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Eniy Oh
Gallente United Systems Navy Unitary Enterprises
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Posted - 2008.10.14 07:48:00 -
[1192]
Edited by: Eniy Oh on 14/10/2008 07:49:39 Seeing this response (...) it's no wonder CCP waited 5 years to ban ghost training.
EVE is not freeware. And that a feature/bug/whatever been around for a long time doesn't mean you're entitled to it forever.
IMHO CCP has the right to change whatever they want to this game. If this results in people who don't even pay for all their accounts canceling their hardly ever paid subscriptions, do you really thing this is going to affect CCP much? --- The one whose ship names don't pass the sanity test while the rest of him is rather sane |
Annaphera
Minmatar Super Green Industries
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Posted - 2008.10.14 07:48:00 -
[1193]
Originally by: Jac Straw The only real whine I want about this is..
Remove ghost sell/buy orders and Research points
Without this the game is unbalanced
I tend to agree.
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Chris Tao
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Posted - 2008.10.14 07:49:00 -
[1194]
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=896550
"Please keep discussions on the subject of Ghost training to this thread please."
Oh and CCP thanx for the 2 day warning. I will now magically remove 70$ from my ass ;)
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Annaphera
Minmatar Super Green Industries
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Posted - 2008.10.14 07:50:00 -
[1195]
Originally by: Kazuo Ishiguro I'm surprised that CCP chose to wait until this particular moment to fix this problem. Ghost training was removed from Serenity, the Chinese server, years ago.
To everyone who is saying that this was an intended feature...what does the above tell you?
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Honeyz
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Posted - 2008.10.14 07:50:00 -
[1196]
Well, personally I know a few people who have already cancelled or will cancel their 1 or more of their accounts because of this (including me). And now I just found out that another friend has completely quit Eve and cancelled all accounts. And yes, it's too late to have all his stuff. Thanks CCP!
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EnslaverOfMinmatar
Yarsk Hunters DeaDSpace Coalition
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Posted - 2008.10.14 07:51:00 -
[1197]
proof that ghost-training IS A BUG
Skills continue training even if you are logged off or if your account is inactive (in the second scenario you can't change skill tr |
Kerdrak
3B Legio IX Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2008.10.14 07:51:00 -
[1198]
The CCP criteria about the duality "bug <-> feature" is funny. ________________________________________
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Aioa
Planetary Assault Systems
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Posted - 2008.10.14 07:52:00 -
[1199]
C'mon now guys - dry your eyes, pick up your toys and think hard about this.
It always surprised me that this loophole existed in the fiirst place, and that they let it happen for as long as they did. If you ran a business, and found a considerable amount of your customers were getting your service free of charge, you'd put a stop to it, right?
Maybe if you'd all been a little more subtle about exploiting it - instead of abusing it horribly by changing skill on 5 accounts then unsubcribing them all - you would have been able to get away with it for longer?
I don't want your stuff, but I would like you all to grow the hell up. --
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Stormwind Bloodfeather
Minmatar Sogdian Traders Inc
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Posted - 2008.10.14 07:53:00 -
[1200]
Originally by: Pan Crastus
Originally by: Stormwind Bloodfeather
I create, run, edit, and modify MySQL databases daily,[...] and writing a PROPER database to handle the code.
Although I sympathize with your cause, this is where your post falls apart ...
Nice try. If you had even the slightest clue what I do then you might have the chance to open your flap and make comments, but as you don't, you should do yourself a favor and be quiet. While my Business isn't large, I do a lot of work to make it run. This includes creating, editing and running MySQL databases to keep my php based sites going for myself, and my few customers. Enjoy eating some Crow.
Stormwind
In EVE, your only friend is your ship and it's weapons. All others are the enemy! |
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Pallidum Treponema
Body Count Inc.
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Posted - 2008.10.14 07:54:00 -
[1201]
I've said it before, I'll say it again. This'll hurt CCP's bottom line in the long run. Heck, it'll hurt them in the SHORT run as well.
Just do a simple math check. How many accounts are using "ghost training" right now? A large part of those accounts would never have been active in the first place, since ghost training is, by definition, training that is done while NOT playing the account actively.
If you're NOT playing actively, why would you keep your account subscribed? Ghost training is a way to still advance your character while NOT playing actively, for a reduced cost.
CCP is making about 50% of the subscription fee, out of accounts that are NOT EVEN ACTIVE. Accounts that, in many cases, would've been left untouched, with NO subscription fees paid if ghost training did not exist. What's more, players would have less of an incentive to get back to the game, if they knew that they'd drop behind in the skill training curve.
CCP, start listening to your customers and try to think like the PLAYERS. I know you run a business. That's exactly why I'm telling you this. Keep your customers/players happy and you will make MORE money. Screw them over, and you'll lose money. It's as simple as that.
Ohyeah, new sig. Go figure.
PS: Hi Zulupark! :D
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Injuries
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Posted - 2008.10.14 07:54:00 -
[1202]
Please keep in mind that "Ghost Training" was primarily used to encourage players to have more than one account. When you train a skill and the subscription expires, you are most likely going to renew that subscription because you can't make use of the finished skill without logging back in. In other words, Ghost Training practically guarantees you will renew that subscription. So if you had 3 alts, it meant you would have to renew the subscription on all of them to make use of what you trained.
Nevermind that you are not able to engage in any activity while the account is inactive. Nevermind that the feature was in their game manual and was in the game for a whole 5 years. The Ghost Training feature that was in place was there to draw you back to playing again. I would go as far and say it was the top reason to have (and keep) more than one account running (even if they were not active all the time). To say that players are abusing this feature is ludicrous. Because the truth is that it served to encourage players to spend more money. That will change when this goes live.
What sucks the most is the fact that this was done with very little warning. It is almost ironic that I would cancel my only subscription only to find out that this feature will no longer be available. I honestly didn't really think about using Ghost Training until some good friends encouraged me to do it. I thought it would help rekindle my will to play eve after being away long enough. But now I have one less perk to come back to should I decide to return. I wish this would stay to help me make up all those days I forgot to train a skill. Maybe I will be lucky and CCP will grant an extension on when the change will go live. At least that would give players enough time so that they can prepare for it.
Here is wishing you all the best.
Computer end transmission.
Injuries.
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Zbuntowany Kaloryfer
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Posted - 2008.10.14 07:56:00 -
[1203]
Edited by: Zbuntowany Kaloryfer on 14/10/2008 07:58:00 Mayby you should decrease SP on innactive accounts - It`ll be good for all of us
I`ve got few accounts It`s time to leave this game
" Dear EVE player,
According to our records you have cancelled an EVE account in the recent months. Our mission is to continuously make EVE a better game, so we're curious to find out why some EVE players chose to cancel their accounts. We therefore want to ask you a favor, if you can spare a few moments, to tell us why you chose to cancel and how you feel we can improve. We have hired Infosurv, Inc., an independent market research firm specializing in customer opinion measurement, to design and administer a customized survey on our behalf.
We'd sincerely appreciate if you could take part in it and give us your feedback on EVE Online. Infosurv will be sending the invitations out shortly, and your responses will remain confidential; they will only be used for internal purposes to improve EVE. We will never forward your personal information to any third party, government agency or extraterrestrial race planning world domination.
Thank you in advance for your feedback, and we look forward to the opportunities this process will give us to better understand have we can change EVE Online for the better.
Sincerely Torfi Frans Olafsson Senior Producer of EVE Online "
And now you know why "......blame BoB erghhh blame CCP erghhhh blame White Wolf....."
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Broutte Minou
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Posted - 2008.10.14 07:56:00 -
[1204]
Originally by: Iridius Fervus
Originally by: Peter VonThal So all this time until now this "bug" was used as a positive feature and a selling point of EVE.
pwnt
pwnt
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Planning Committee
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Posted - 2008.10.14 07:56:00 -
[1205]
Originally by: EnslaverOfMinmatar proof that ghost-training IS A BUG
Is this a dumb troll?
CCP Wrangler just confirmed there that ghost training is the way it works. The skill will finish training, you just can't start training a next one until you resub and relogin.
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EbilC
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Posted - 2008.10.14 07:57:00 -
[1206]
Originally by: Injuries
Please keep in mind that "Ghost Training" was primarily used to encourage players to have more than one account. When you train a skill and the subscription expires, you are most likely going to renew that subscription because you can't make use of the finished skill without logging back in. In other words, Ghost Training practically guarantees you will renew that subscription. So if you had 3 alts, it meant you would have to renew the subscription on all of them to make use of what you trained.
Nevermind that you are not able to engage in any activity while the account is inactive. Nevermind that the feature was in their game manual and was in the game for a whole 5 years. The Ghost Training feature that was in place was there to draw you back to playing again. I would go as far and say it was the top reason to have (and keep) more than one account running (even if they were not active all the time). To say that players are abusing this feature is ludicrous. Because the truth is that it served to encourage players to spend more money. That will change when this goes live.
What sucks the most is the fact that this was done with very little warning. It is almost ironic that I would cancel my only subscription only to find out that this feature will no longer be available. I honestly didn't really think about using Ghost Training until some good friends encouraged me to do it. I thought it would help rekindle my will to play eve after being away long enough. But now I have one less perk to come back to should I decide to return. I wish this would stay to help me make up all those days I forgot to train a skill. Maybe I will be lucky and CCP will grant an extension on when the change will go live. At least that would give players enough time so that they can prepare for it.
Here is wishing you all the best.
Computer end transmission.
Injuries.
this! this! a thousand times this!!
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Jordan Musgrat
H A V O C Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2008.10.14 07:58:00 -
[1207]
While it kind of makes sense, it's a bad idea. It's one of those things that you can somewhat justify, but you're still an ******* if you go through with it.
Also, you are lying. It was never a bug, it was never unintended. It was a documented game feature, and when you took ghost training off of Singularity? I believe it was some years ago, the EvE community was outraged, and you were quick to take it off and say "oh no, that's only going on the China server, you guys are fine."
Of course people want to get the most they can from their money, it's normal. But in doing this, you will lose many many subscriptions. It doesn't take you any amount of bandwidth or stress your servers in any way to continue to train skills while inactive. Other paying and active players are better off in every way than those training offline.
What this comes down to, as you alluded to, is this. You simply want more money. We see this with the bogus GTC changes, now this. GTC prices have caused some people to quit. This change will lose you many more active accounts.
From CCP's prespective, the only good thing this does is distract nerdrage from the nano nerf. Oh and by the way, that live dev blog was a joke, you never addressed the community's concerns. "how do you see small gang warfare exisitng postnerf?" CCP: "well, we're boosting the black ops BS..." -----------
Primary is family values, secondary is 0.0... |
Stormwind Bloodfeather
Minmatar Sogdian Traders Inc
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 07:58:00 -
[1208]
Edited by: Stormwind Bloodfeather on 14/10/2008 08:02:05
Originally by: Catherine Frasier
Originally by: Tunnas
Originally by: Catherine Frasier
Originally by: Stormwind Bloodfeather 1. You advertised this as an INTENDED FEATURE of the game... for years.
Got proof?
proof
Skills continue training even if you are logged off or if your account is inactive (in the second scenario you can't change skill training, though).
For the 352651th time: Describing what happens is not the same thing as saying it was done that way on purpose. You put "INTENDED FEATURE" in caps and rightfully so, intent is the key question. Nowhere in the guide does it say "we planned it this way" rather than (like lots of other things in Eve) "it just worked out that way".
Your splitting hairs. They SAY skills continue to train even on inactive accounts. they do NOT say this is a bug and should not be used. Thus, their statement that skills continue to train, even on an innactive account, means it was an INTENDED FEATURE or they would have done the VERY SMALL code change to stop it from happening years ago.
simple.
Stormwind
In EVE, your only friend is your ship and it's weapons. All others are the enemy! |
Annaphera
Minmatar Super Green Industries
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Posted - 2008.10.14 08:00:00 -
[1209]
Originally by: Planning Committee
Originally by: EnslaverOfMinmatar proof that ghost-training IS A BUG
Is this a dumb troll?
CCP Wrangler just confirmed there that ghost training is the way it works. The skill will finish training, you just can't start training a next one until you resub and relogin.
Doesn't help either side, really, because it also doesn't say if it was intended, he's just confirming what happens.
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Astria Tiphareth
Caldari 24th Imperial Crusade
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Posted - 2008.10.14 08:00:00 -
[1210]
Sorry I don't buy this logic. I have never ghost trained, and could see a good reason to remove this if we ended up with a skill queue (this was one of the primary reasons not to have a skill queue, after the many arguments about it). I just don't understand why we have to have this PR song and dance, and that you actually expect us to believe it.
Originally by: CCP t0rfifrans 1. There was a way to progress a character in EVE without an active subscription. 2. CCP noticed a surge in the trend and decided to fix the leak
Really? A subscription minimum unit is a month. Just how many single levels of a skill take an entire 30 days? Sure, some of the later higher ranked ones do, but you'd be hard pressed to get to any of them in the space of a year of normal play barring a dedicated alt character. I'm not saying it's impossible, just that I don't believe that it's a hugely popular trend or one that is very effective/efficient - unless what we're actually saying is that titans, carriers, and other capitals are so dull and awkward that people have been ghost-training dedicated alts for them, in which case the game has far bigger problems.
Quote: Ghost Training was an unintended feature where unpaid accounts of EVE Online were able to continue training skills. While this allowed players to run multiple characters on a shoestring budget, in all effect, this was a bug.
Bug? Unintended feature? For 5 years? I simply cannot believe it took you 5 years to notice this and fix it. Call it what it is - a change.
The actual change, I don't mind. What bugs me is the increasing trend of vagueness in some of these dev blogs. Telling it like it is may annoy a few more people, but it won't annoy those actually looking for a straight answer. Straight answers at least let you know where you stand. ___ My views may not represent those of my corporation, which is why I never get invited to those diplomatic parties... Environmental Effects
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Lijhal
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Posted - 2008.10.14 08:01:00 -
[1211]
i do not understand, why after 5 years, they are changing this "feature" of EvE-Online into a "bug" ... 5 god damned years !!!
So, if you are going to change this, please consider to give the player base following options:
Player Base 1. movement of characters for FREE onto other accounts, for, lets say, a month
2. the option to merge existing characters into one
3. Skill Queque
4. All characters on one Account can learn Skills
Game Experience 1. More content, more ships, more missions, more 0.0, more tactical game , more "insert coin here"
please stay unique and no not become something similiar like SoE ... goddamned!
is this so hard ?
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jnky
The Righteous Few Tygris Alliance
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Posted - 2008.10.14 08:02:00 -
[1212]
I admit I was selling chars for isk but had to be active for 4 months out of 6 to achieve this. It was a nice feature (bug as you put it) but after this toon that will be ready to sell next month I will be stopping my spare account for good.
Not complaining about your decision just adding one more lost account to the rest stated in this (and the other) thread so you can get a rough figure of how much you will be loosing with this...Balance
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Lobo Ex
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Posted - 2008.10.14 08:02:00 -
[1213]
This is a major bad mark on the part of CCP. I have one account, with one main character and one alt that I hardly ever use. I pay for my Eve time in Time cards and due to the nature of my job I am sometimes unable to get a new time card when the old time card expires so I have gaps in my subscription BTW made worse now by the fact that 90 day TC's are no longer available !!
In the past a gap in my time on Eve was not a major issue as I could rely on the continued training of my main character until I was able again to get a time card again now it looks at though I will not be able to do this.
I think this is an own goal CCP
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Zachastoi Zagamnu
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Posted - 2008.10.14 08:03:00 -
[1214]
indeed, the surge IS working!
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Shannia Star
Delphi Corporation
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 08:03:00 -
[1215]
Edited by: Shannia Star on 14/10/2008 08:04:19 Great. Money Money Money!!!
Remember to change your player guide!!!
Quote: Skills continue training even if you are logged off or if your account is inactive
http://www.eve-online.com/guide/en/g615.asp
Now saying its an unintended feature is total crap! It was a selling point once!
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CliveMerric
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Posted - 2008.10.14 08:03:00 -
[1216]
Originally by: Annaphera
Originally by: CliveMerric CCP please dont spit in our faces by announcing that one of the major selling points of the game is an 'unintended feature'. Its insulting....
im taking 2 of my accounts offline because you see fit to remove the 1 major reason i keep coming back to this game after i get bored for a while.
good job
"Major selling point of the game"??? People keep saying this, and I just can't get my head around it. I see LOTS of ads for Eve around the web, and no small number of MMO sites...could someone point out the one they see that has this listed as a "major selling point" that is written by CCP? There's a dev post floating around that talks about ghost training as being "discovered"...how does one discover something one created intentionally?
im sorry i should have clarified, it was the major selling point for me in terms of getting more than 1 account. As a result of this im not as likely to reactivate my accounts whenever i come back. To me it makes eve more casual and affordable. Im truly sad to see that go. Im working on resigning my self that ccp will not go through with this. But im realizing that its their game and if they dont want people playing/paying for it that is their issue. Clives BPC shop, Great deals!! |
Traxio Nacho
Dark Knights of Deneb Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2008.10.14 08:04:00 -
[1217]
As has already been mentioned many times if this was a "bug" why did you not only use this as a selling point but put it into your new player guide?
Quote:
Now a single customer that doesn't log into the servers may not weigh heavily on our database infrastructure, just as a single snowflake isn't that heavy, hardly a measurable quantity. But it's hard not to notice an avalanche if it hits you. And that's what was starting to happen in our database.
Maybe that says something about YOUR game?
I currently have 8 accounts and have 6-7 on them active while the other 1-2 are used as and when, normally 8/9 months of the year they are active now I just think I'll sell them and not bother.
Just another step towards being like WoW but hang on at least in WoW you get double XP while offline and can catch up unlike Eve
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Kaitou Shiroi
Hakata Group Blade.
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Posted - 2008.10.14 08:04:00 -
[1218]
I can understand where CCP is coming from, but at the same time I agree with the vast majority of people here, in that if you advertise the idea of Ghost Training in your knowledge base, by default it cannot be a "bug." Obviously it was either intended, or at the very least acknowledged and encouraged. ---
Unless specifically stated otherwise, the opinions expressed in my posts do not reflect those held by my corporation or alliance.
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EnslaverOfMinmatar
Yarsk Hunters DeaDSpace Coalition
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Posted - 2008.10.14 08:05:00 -
[1219]
Originally by: Annaphera
Originally by: Planning Committee
Originally by: EnslaverOfMinmatar proof that ghost-training IS A BUG
Is this a dumb troll?
CCP Wrangler just confirmed there that ghost training is the way it works. The skill will finish training, you just can't start training a next one until you resub and relogin.
Doesn't help either side, really, because it also doesn't say if it was intended, he's just confirming what happens.
lol u both noobs, it was sarcasm
Skills continue training even if you are logged off or if your account is inactive (in the second scenario you can't change skill tr |
Ava Baby
Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 08:05:00 -
[1220]
Here's an idea from the Features and Ideas Discussion section which doesn't seem that bad of a solution.
Originally by: Brother Welcome
I urge CCP to consider a 'suspend' state for player accounts, in which skill training continues to run. While suspended, you pay a lessened subscription fee.
Linky here
Originally by: Asestorian I support this message. Whatever it is.
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The Jazz
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Posted - 2008.10.14 08:06:00 -
[1221]
This is an alt, but I have 6 accounts generally 3-4 are active at a time while the the others ghost train. It was cool while it lasted but I cannot see myself now going along now with that many accounts.
Also as an Australian player the price of this game is getting a little to much, a 6 month sub hit my cc account on the 10th of this month when the AUD dipped to $0.65usd and it cost a lot :(
So can under stand why CCP are doing this, not going to OMG EMORAGE QUIT but I will be playing with less accounts and less cash to CCP as a result.
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Lindsikyev
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 08:06:00 -
[1222]
Originally by: Injuries
Please keep in mind that "Ghost Training" was primarily used to encourage players to have more than one account. When you train a skill and the subscription expires, you are most likely going to renew that subscription because you can't make use of the finished skill without logging back in. In other words, Ghost Training practically guarantees you will renew that subscription. So if you had 3 alts, it meant you would have to renew the subscription on all of them to make use of what you trained.
Nevermind that you are not able to engage in any activity while the account is inactive. Nevermind that the feature was in their game manual and was in the game for a whole 5 years. The Ghost Training feature that was in place was there to draw you back to playing again. I would go as far and say it was the top reason to have (and keep) more than one account running (even if they were not active all the time). To say that players are abusing this feature is ludicrous. Because the truth is that it served to encourage players to spend more money. That will change when this goes live.
What sucks the most is the fact that this was done with very little warning. It is almost ironic that I would cancel my only subscription only to find out that this feature will no longer be available. I honestly didn't really think about using Ghost Training until some good friends encouraged me to do it. I thought it would help rekindle my will to play eve after being away long enough. But now I have one less perk to come back to should I decide to return. I wish this would stay to help me make up all those days I forgot to train a skill. Maybe I will be lucky and CCP will grant an extension on when the change will go live. At least that would give players enough time so that they can prepare for it.
Here is wishing you all the best.
Computer end transmission.
Injuries.
Pretty much this. Bolded for emphasis.
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Jowen Datloran
Caldari Science and Trade Institute
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 08:07:00 -
[1223]
Edited by: Jowen Datloran on 14/10/2008 08:10:11
Originally by: CCP t0rfifrans Does that mean that CCP is a greedy money chewing monster that just loves nerfing things? Of course not. We're a company like everyone else, we make a game, that we happen to love making and for most of us is the passion of our lives.
Yes, now you are indeed a company like everybody else. Before you were greater.
This blog is not written by somebody who is on level with their playerbase. It is written by the money grubbing bastards in Marketing who only cares about the numbers at bottom line and not about providing a service at all. Short term gains is all they aim for, because who cares about the long term where the game might have had to shut down.
Have you been taking lessons from EA, Sony, etc.? ---------------- Mr. Science & Trade Institute
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Doctor Fu
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 08:08:00 -
[1224]
Originally by: Jowen Datloran
Originally by: CCP t0rfifrans Does that mean that CCP is a greedy money chewing monster that just loves nerfing things? Of course not. We're a company like everyone else, we make a game, that we happen to love making and for most of us is the passion of our lives.
Yes, now you are indeed a company like everybody else. Before you were greater.
This blog is not written by somebody who is on level with their playerbase. It is written by the money grubbing bastards in Marketing who only cares about the numbers at bottom line and not about providing a service at all.
Have you been taking lessons from EA, Sony, etc.?
CALM DOWN
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ultima miner
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 08:09:00 -
[1225]
Originally by: Lijhal i do not understand, why after 5 years, they are changing this "feature" of EvE-Online into a "bug" ... 5 god damned years !!!
So, if you are going to change this, please consider to give the player base following options:
Player Base 1. movement of characters for FREE onto other accounts, for, lets say, a month
2. the option to merge existing characters into one
3. Skill Queque
4. All characters on one Account can learn Skills
that sounds like a massively good pla to train all the char in 1 acount that wil be a really good way to salove it
|
Arrs Grazznic
Poena Executive Solutions
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 08:10:00 -
[1226]
Originally by: Injuries
Please keep in mind that "Ghost Training" was primarily used to encourage players to have more than one account. When you train a skill and the subscription expires, you are most likely going to renew that subscription because you can't make use of the finished skill without logging back in. In other words, Ghost Training practically guarantees you will renew that subscription. So if you had 3 alts, it meant you would have to renew the subscription on all of them to make use of what you trained.
Nevermind that you are not able to engage in any activity while the account is inactive. Nevermind that the feature was in their game manual and was in the game for a whole 5 years. The Ghost Training feature that was in place was there to draw you back to playing again. I would go as far and say it was the top reason to have (and keep) more than one account running (even if they were not active all the time). To say that players are abusing this feature is ludicrous. Because the truth is that it served to encourage players to spend more money. That will change when this goes live.
What sucks the most is the fact that this was done with very little warning. It is almost ironic that I would cancel my only subscription only to find out that this feature will no longer be available. I honestly didn't really think about using Ghost Training until some good friends encouraged me to do it. I thought it would help rekindle my will to play eve after being away long enough. But now I have one less perk to come back to should I decide to return. I wish this would stay to help me make up all those days I forgot to train a skill. Maybe I will be lucky and CCP will grant an extension on when the change will go live. At least that would give players enough time so that they can prepare for it.
Here is wishing you all the best.
Computer end transmission.
Injuries.
Great post -- well said.
Cheers, Arrs
Quote: Is it just me who says "what can I do in real life: drink beer; walk around; put on clothes; fly a spaceship firing at other spaceships" and then use that to choose what I do on the internet?
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Brom Draco
Unitary Senate Unitary Enterprises
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Posted - 2008.10.14 08:11:00 -
[1227]
Originally by: Carsidava Nope, sorry. This doesn't wash.
If you disable skill training for inactive accounts, why aren't you also disabling market orders from inactive accounts? Why aren't you also disabling RP accumulation from inactive accounts? Why aren't you disabling dividend payouts to inactive accounts?
Why are only skill points being hit?
Sorry CCP, this is an entirely unsatisfactory answer.
what he said ^
This is all too one sided, how can it better the 'player' when the above still carries on, how many times has dividends been paid to inactive accounts been raised etc? This is just a way to "boost" revenue, while at the same time causing a major percentage of subscribers to no longer pay for a game that HAD such a unique service.
CCP takes one stepforward, two steps back!
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Zartoll
Caldari Electrostatik
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 08:11:00 -
[1228]
Thank you CCP!! I agree that someone should not be allowed to train their account while their subscription is inactive no matter the so-called justification on their part. If you don't pay for gas to put into your car then your car runs out and stops... should be no different here. I never liked the fact that people were doing this and will never agree that it should have been or should be allowed. As for the people that keep stating that CCP is just a money-grubbing company, I say to you, start your own MMO and give it away for free. I do not agree with everything that CCP does but this is one decision that I whole-heartedly agree with! Frag Incorporated |
xOmGx
Warriors tribe Red Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 08:11:00 -
[1229]
Quote: Originally by: Lijhal -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- i do not understand, why after 5 years, they are changing this "feature" of EvE-Online into a "bug" ... 5 god damned years !!!
So, if you are going to change this, please consider to give the player base following options:
Player Base 1. movement of characters for FREE onto other accounts, for, lets say, a month
2. the option to merge existing characters into one
3. Skill Queque
4. All characters on one Account can learn Skills
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
that sounds like a massively good pla to train all the char in 1 acount that wil be a really good way to salove it
+1 No Pain - No Gain |
Kerdrak
3B Legio IX Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2008.10.14 08:12:00 -
[1230]
CCP easy steps to make more money:
-Removal of 30d GTC. Check -Removal of Ghost Training feat... BUG. Check -Expansions at 30$? ________________________________________
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Pan Crastus
Anti-Metagaming League
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Posted - 2008.10.14 08:12:00 -
[1231]
I take it the general mood in Iceland is very bad at the moment with everyone running around in circles, pulling their hair and muttering "what are we going to do?". Desperate moves are desperate.
How to PVP: 1. buy ISK with GTCs, 2. fit cloak, learn aggro mechanics, 3. buy second account for metagaming
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Amarr Hyena
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Posted - 2008.10.14 08:13:00 -
[1232]
im indiffrent to ghost training (might even do it if I came about something ridiculous), but honestly CCP, what you expect with two days notice and having this go on for whatever many years?
------- ghost training Threadnaught V. |
Augtaian
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Posted - 2008.10.14 08:15:00 -
[1233]
Ummh but that is why I thought this MMO was unique so lets keep it so!, Its a second mistress this EvE that occasionally you need a break once in a while especially the students and college types preparing for examples or waiting on loans or retainers moving locations/jobs/Universities c'mon.
Personally I think it should remain as it is! money revenue of course but they got a game base and they fully know most of these ghost accounts are in-game with other characters..
Leave it alone..CCP I am not really affected but I enjoy the crowd I pwe pwe and have fun with, if they decide to ply their trade in another game I may have check what ever that game is....
My 5 cents worth ... oops I haven't got a dime on me dame it...
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I m
Minmatar BWR Gamers Legion of Honor
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Posted - 2008.10.14 08:16:00 -
[1234]
"We truly hope that the community will understand our actions and continue to enjoy playing EVE as much as we enjoy making it." CCP ARE YOU OUT YOUR MOTHER F***** MIND ? WHAT THE F*** SHOULD WE UNDERSTAND AND ENJOY , A SERV WITH LAG ALL THE TIME ? NERF SHIPS ? OR THIS , CCP ****ing us of money FFS , THE GAME WORK OUT THIS WAY FOR YEARS AND NOW U WANT TO CHANGE IT ? 90% of eve players have an alt FFS , THIS WAS THE ONLY BEAUTY OF THE GAMe left , FFS ...omg I so ****ed out right now X(X(X( we pay a lots of money to play this game u DON'T EVEN CARE ABOUT PLAYERS OR OUR OPINIONS JUST MAKE DEV BLOGS AND FORUM THREADS MORE TO **** OUT PEOPLE X(X(X( sorry for my language but this is really outrage ... _____ STEP UP NOW ! |
Ichinomiya Chiaki
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 08:16:00 -
[1235]
Edited by: Ichinomiya Chiaki on 14/10/2008 08:19:24 good job ccp i'll diet my accounts 5 to 1, then you got 29.9$for two month instead 74.75$ for two month LOL
Quote: We truly hope that the community will understand our actions and continue to enjoy playing EVE as much as we enjoy making it.
FXXXXX BXXX SXXX.
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Halleck Gurney
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Posted - 2008.10.14 08:16:00 -
[1236]
I'm a ghost trainer, and the reason for that is simple :
I am not happy with the state of the game but I am not ready to turn my back on it completely. Optimistically as I am, I hope for better days to come and keep my account alive and prevent my character from running hopelessly behind. I still believe this game has tremendous potential.
This decision by CCP now boils down to either being in or out.
Well, CCP, sorry to hear you are no longer interested in my periodic financial contributions ... I'm out.
Good luck with the balance sheet for next year.
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Jayne Cobbe
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Posted - 2008.10.14 08:19:00 -
[1237]
Calling a feature a bug is a new one, usually it works the other way around in our business. You messed this one up, big time. Not that it's not absolutely within your rights to remove a feature if you please, but to call it bugfixing is an insult to the community, to the people that once read your description of the "now called bug, once called feature" in your knowledgebase and now get kicked in the butt. Yeah your EULA puts you on the safe side in such matters, but your attitude sucks, again big time(!).
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Bedrock
Reikoku Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.10.14 08:20:00 -
[1238]
Can all the quiters plz contract me your stuffs?
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Karma
Eve University
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Posted - 2008.10.14 08:20:00 -
[1239]
... balance? it's unfair to players who actively pay and play all the time? bullocks.
when it's perfectly legal for me to create an alt-account and buy a titan-capable pilot for ISK... and buy ISK through selling GTCs... in essence buy a Titan-capable pilot for real cash... you really can't speak to what is fair or unfair in that sense.
but if we disregard legal-RMT for a bit... two players, one ghost-training, one not. the ghost-trainer leaves for a ~month to train Cruisers V or something. the playing player spends the time running missions or mining, or pvp-ing, or ... anything really. the ghost-trainer returns and is capable of flying all sorts of new cool ships, but his wallet looks exactly the same as it did before he left. the playing player has spend a month making money, and has a fat wallet. balances out nicely, does it not? ... atleast, if we disregard legal-RMT for a bit. :P
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Traxio Nacho
Dark Knights of Deneb Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2008.10.14 08:20:00 -
[1240]
I am waiting for the
"Oh by the way guys forgot to say the next patch will cost you Ç20"
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Joskken Inx
PURE Legion Pure.
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Posted - 2008.10.14 08:21:00 -
[1241]
You know, I'm going to reserve further judgment on this matter until we get either some answers to pertinent questions that have been raised, or some official word on why this is being shoved through at the 11th hour. I've thought about it, and the timing seems very questionable. Original post was made during off-duty hours in Iceland (and the evening of a Federal holiday in the US, not sure where else), no follow up Q&A, hell...there's a lot about this that now I'm thinking was either a massive miscommunication or someone took an "intent" too far.
Because I just am holding on to this thread of hope that CCP taking this hardline of "it drops in 2 days tough shit" to fix this "bug" when there are MAJOR bugs unfixed...I just want to believe this is a sad joke on someone's part.
If you guys really think not only is this a bug, but it HAS to be fixed NOW...well...
I'm going to wait for more proof or a post from someone at CCP. ------------------------------------------------ "Skills continue training even if you are logged off or if your account is inactive (in the second scenario you can't change skill training, though). |
James Marshalll
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.10.14 08:22:00 -
[1242]
Originally by: Catherine Frasier
Originally by: Tunnas
Originally by: Catherine Frasier
Originally by: Stormwind Bloodfeather 1. You advertised this as an INTENDED FEATURE of the game... for years.
Got proof?
proof
Skills continue training even if you are logged off or if your account is inactive (in the second scenario you can't change skill training, though).
For the 201740th time: Describing what happens is not the same thing as saying it was done that way on purpose. You put "INTENDED FEATURE" in caps and rightfully so, intent is the key question. Nowhere in the guide does it say "we planned it this way" rather than (like lots of other things in Eve) "it just worked out that way".
you are reaching, first and foremost as I said before and you chose to ignore.
YOU DO NOT DOCUMENT BUGS IN A PLAYER GUIDE. Because its in the player guide and also advertised on one of the sub-pages at what makes eve unique, one can garner that they did intend for people to use it. Now granted, things change. But this wasn't something that NEEDED to be changed in 2 days time, with no warning, when there is fundamental problems in this game that have been long time coming and affect the majority of the eve universe in one way or the other.
Sorry, but as much as you try to skirt the issue the fact remains that they did document it, in multiple places. New player guides that tell players they can utilize a feature, and also advertising it on one of their splash screens as one of the unique features of eve shows that the intent is there for the users to take advantage of it.
If you want to suck up to CCP by brown nosing fine, but at least stand by them with a plausible freaking response. Remember there will be a day when what goes around comes around. (Unless of course you are a GM alt, then your just trash for trying to pass off posting as a customer)
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Tres Farmer
Gallente Federation Intelligence Service
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Posted - 2008.10.14 08:23:00 -
[1243]
ccp said they would never remove this 'feature' when its cancelation slipped into the news for some update a year ago and that this would only apply to the chinese server..
well..
That is the first time ccp is bloody lying into my face and I'm really really angry about that.
Forge '07 on Sale
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chiisai sakana
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Posted - 2008.10.14 08:23:00 -
[1244]
Edited by: chiisai sakana on 14/10/2008 08:23:32 1)make a bug 2)call it a feature 3)make it a selling point 4)gather players 5)say that the feature is a bug in a way that could't fool a 4 year old. 6)?????? 7)proffit
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Princess Minnie
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Posted - 2008.10.14 08:23:00 -
[1245]
"That's not fair towards CCP as a service provider and it's not fair towards other players that pay a subscription but don't make use of this bug."
I was one of those subscribers that suffered from the bug where you had to buy the original game for $80. Since that bug has been fixed and new players are now provided the initial game for free, is there any chance that CCP would refund our initial outlay?
you know given that "it's not fair towards other players that paid a fee for the box but don't make use of this new free game bug."
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Joskken Inx
PURE Legion Pure.
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Posted - 2008.10.14 08:23:00 -
[1246]
Originally by: Bedrock Can all the quiters plz contract me your stuffs?
Nope, I'd delete it all. I'm sure you'd understand :] ------------------------------------------------ "Skills continue training even if you are logged off or if your account is inactive (in the second scenario you can't change skill training, though). |
12433412
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Posted - 2008.10.14 08:24:00 -
[1247]
Originally by: Zartoll Thank you CCP!! I agree that someone should not be allowed to train their account while their subscription is inactive no matter the so-called justification on their part. If you don't pay for gas to put into your car then your car runs out and stops... should be no different here. I never liked the fact that people were doing this and will never agree that it should have been or should be allowed. As for the people that keep stating that CCP is just a money-grubbing company, I say to you, start your own MMO and give it away for free. I do not agree with everything that CCP does but this is one decision that I whole-heartedly agree with!
the thing is car company tell you your car can go twice as far as any other one and then you get stuck in the middle of the highway, how is that for comparision, i would have never started my alt account if i knew this was coming and would have saved some effort and money
_____________________________________________________ Beware of what you want, it might want you more! |
Col Callahan
Caldari Oberon Incorporated Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 08:24:00 -
[1248]
Edited by: Col Callahan on 14/10/2008 08:31:12
Quote: We truly hope that the community will understand our actions and continue to enjoy playing EVE as much as we enjoy making it. Torfi Frans Olafsson Senior Producer of EVE Online
No, the community will not understand your actions when you sold this as a "feature" no more then a 2 years ago to get more people to subscribe to the game so. So you are out right lining to us when you say that this has been a bug that you ignored.
Well lets step back and ask our self's why this trend started, The worlds economy is failing apart at the seems and some people can't afford 30 bucks a month or 360USD a year and more for the Euros.
Now you will see what happens when people are forced sell off there alt accounts and only can afford one account. You think your profit margin is bad now because of this trend, you ant seen nothing yet you greedy sods
Bad move Torfi, very bad indeed, but hey, its only your employees necks on the line, I'm sure Eve has already set you up for life. _
"Skills continue training even if you are logged off or if your account is inactive (in the second scenario you can't change skill training, though)." |
Ava Baby
Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2008.10.14 08:25:00 -
[1249]
Edited by: Ava Baby on 14/10/2008 08:26:56 Edited by: Ava Baby on 14/10/2008 08:26:32 Edited by: Ava Baby on 14/10/2008 08:25:53 All this posting is pointless. It's harder to ignore phone calls
Here is a link to CCP's Company contact page and top management page
http://www.ccpgames.com/company/contact.asp
http://www.ccpgames.com/company/management.asp
Iceland Corporate Tel: (+354) 540 9100
USA 404-292-1819
Sorry CCP
Be sure to be calm about it when talking and refrain from using profanity as it will only lead to a DC
Also, the higher up you get on the chain, the likely you will see a result.
Originally by: Asestorian I support this message. Whatever it is.
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Princess Gally
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Posted - 2008.10.14 08:27:00 -
[1250]
Thanks CCP! It was about time you do something against alts and multi accounts -------------ONCOMING REVOLUTION------------ Miners united. Set your Trit prices to 8.00! -------------------------------------------- |
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Llywellyn
Gallente Ordnace Research and Development
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Posted - 2008.10.14 08:28:00 -
[1251]
I am going to bet, most people are going to pay up!
Personally this is fine, I already pay on my accounts no matter the time played on it.
CCP will now have a steady subscriber base and be able to make better financial projection when you donÆt have 100,000 accounts going active, inactive, inactive, activeà.. I support the change, I do recall a long time ago it was said to be a bug, back long ago before you of these whiners even knew about eve.
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EnslaverOfMinmatar
Yarsk Hunters DeaDSpace Coalition
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Posted - 2008.10.14 08:28:00 -
[1252]
Originally by: Traxio Nacho I am waiting for the
"Oh by the way guys forgot to say the next patch will cost you Ç20"
.... oh, and Ç30 to uninstall it
Skills continue training even if you are logged off or if your account is inactive (in the second scenario you can't change skill tr |
NereSky
Gallente Trinity Nova Trinity Nova Alliance
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Posted - 2008.10.14 08:30:00 -
[1253]
Originally by: Delos Korelian
Originally by: Jinx Barker
... ever since the "old" guard of the developers left active EVE online roles CCP customer service, CCP customer attunes, and general CCP attitude toward its player base has gone to shit.
Aint that the truth
Qft
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James Marshalll
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.10.14 08:31:00 -
[1254]
Originally by: Bedrock Can all the quiters plz contract me your stuffs?
Or we can just go back to the old days, you know, where you guys got T2 BPO's for free. Ohhh right, they banned the guy who found out your corp / ccp were a bunch of cheaters and they banned him for account sharing /lulz.
take some advice, you and your corp are the last hypocrites that should ever step foot in ANY forum post about ccp and bad decisions. Ahh but you know I guess all those people who felt cheated back then were just whiners too and should take it up the ass and just go with the flow.. I mean its not YOU getting screwed right?
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clone 1
Laughing Leprechauns Corporation
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Posted - 2008.10.14 08:31:00 -
[1255]
LIES
Devblog: "Ghost Training was an unintended feature where unpaid accounts of EVE Online were able to continue training skills."
But in the Official player guide
Player Guide: Skills continue training even if you are logged off or if your account is inactive (in the second scenario you can't change skill training, though). Linkage Just in case
Even when taking a secound chance to explain the action, you still mess it up. -------------------------------------------------- The Angels Have the Phone Box |
Hypan
Amarr Zebra Corp Chain of Chaos
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Posted - 2008.10.14 08:31:00 -
[1256]
so in a year where you have removed 30 and 90 day time codes, replacing it with a 60day code for teh same price as teh old 90day one, making it more expencive to play.
you have also in your great wisdom decided to f**k even more players off and loose more accounts while you try to ring out more $ from your player base
You ccp have your heads up your arse, as your hands try to rob the content of our wallets, while mubbling s**t about design features and industry standards
Hypan
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Rinaldo Titano
Caldari Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2008.10.14 08:31:00 -
[1257]
Fully agree with the move to disable the training inactive accounts
,BUT.......
It would be a right move if u would in other part give advantage to peoples which actively play, and use things in the game....If u training offline or a skill training should be unaffected, but if u fly a commandship in space, and u dont have lvl 5 u should get for this extra skillpoints.
With this move newer players would have a chance to get higher skills if they play a lot(naturally some check should be built in, not just give a curse to a ship in highsec and afk). Or for example should give extra xp after every usage of a weapon class, for example after every 100 small blaster ammo shooted..etc.
This move would show u honor your players and give an advantage on playing the game and u dont make just changes which grow your incom... after this u can say u dont greedy
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Stormwind Bloodfeather
Minmatar Sogdian Traders Inc
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Posted - 2008.10.14 08:32:00 -
[1258]
Edited by: Stormwind Bloodfeather on 14/10/2008 08:34:09
Originally by: EnslaverOfMinmatar
Originally by: Traxio Nacho I am waiting for the
"Oh by the way guys forgot to say the next patch will cost you Ç20"
.... oh, and Ç30 to uninstall it
Oh and don't forget the new charge being implemented on the 31st of Ç5 per forum whine post. Oh hell, i'm screwed!
Stormwind
In EVE, your only friend is your ship and it's weapons. All others are the enemy! |
Hamlin Brown
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Posted - 2008.10.14 08:32:00 -
[1259]
So you have to pay to play the game, thats the idea stupid.
If you want to train skills then pay for it, don't cry like a baby when a bug is fixed. What happens if the whole player base starts doing this? We won't have a game ? Do you think the programmers work for free ?
The best things in life are free, eve is not one of them.
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Skogen Gump
Jericho Fraction
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Posted - 2008.10.14 08:33:00 -
[1260]
Apart from all these quitters (who ostensibly don't play anyway ?) how is this change going to effect me/my alliance/the rest of eve ?
Will this cause less lag, stopping all this Database activity ?
Basically, will this have a knock on effect that helps those of us who still choose to be here , paying to play ? If not, please CCP consider the alienation you're causing ... there are bigger and better things to be fixing that impact on the gameplay of the many thousands of accounts that do log in every day!
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Col Callahan
Caldari Oberon Incorporated Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2008.10.14 08:34:00 -
[1261]
Originally by: clone 1
LIES
Devblog: "Ghost Training was an unintended feature where unpaid accounts of EVE Online were able to continue training skills."
But in the Official player guide
Player Guide: Skills continue training even if you are logged off or if your account is inactive (in the second scenario you can't change skill training, though). Linkage Just in case
Even when taking a secound chance to explain the action, you still mess it up.
OMG I love you, Proof for every one to see. LIES LIES DIRTY FILTHY GREEDY LIES. _
"Skills continue training even if you are logged off or if your account is inactive (in the second scenario you can't change skill training, though)." |
Marcus Wyld
Caldari BlackSky inc.
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Posted - 2008.10.14 08:34:00 -
[1262]
I don't particularly like that this is happening, because it increases the cost of training characters without any ability to keep a skill constantly training. The whole ghost training kind of worked as an equalizer for my characters I could at least take a break and know that my skills would still train and make up for all those times when I was too busy to change the skill.
That being said I don't believe that it's as much to punish people just trying to salvage training time in a down economic time. Unless I'm reading these wrong it's more to ensure that there is a strong enough cash flow to offset the 300% increase in development costs and 428% increase in debt liabilities for what I hope our extra goodies for the server. CCP Investor Page
It is getting increasingly expensive to borrow anyway and this is probably the only alternative for ccp.
This action won't make me any more likely to reactivate my alt though.
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Scurvy Rickett
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Posted - 2008.10.14 08:34:00 -
[1263]
Minmatar balltship 5 37 days, Minmatar cruiser 5 23 days. That's 2 months of paid subscription to train just 2 skills. I need those in order to use alot of t2 ships and carriers, if i want to make the most out of my character they can't be ignored. If you are going to make this permanant then change the ridiculously long lvl 5 skills.
-1 or 2 accounts
ccp you really f**ked up with this one
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Vikarion
Caldari Hunters Imperiale
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Posted - 2008.10.14 08:35:00 -
[1264]
Ok, I've already canceled 1 alt account...Teris Thurinson was the char name. I was considering starting him up again, but not now. Nuh-uh.
And I may just cancel my other alt. Heck, with the way CCP keeps screwing its players over, I fully anticipate being required to pay for expansions soon.
When that happens, I'm gone. And, BTW, CCP, I'm going to make sure to inform any of my friends who are considering using your "product" about your simply disgusting customer service and community relations, not to mention the fact that I'll be asking them not to even try the WoD MMO of yours.
Heck, one of them even works for a game site. I think I'll see if I can get him to treat it like treated sewage. --------
EVE - The only non-consensual PvP MMORPG*
*Note: does not contain non-consensual PvP as of 9/3/2008
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Vek NaVek
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Posted - 2008.10.14 08:35:00 -
[1265]
Lol, the Devblog (PanicBlog) just made it worse
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rens research
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 08:35:00 -
[1266]
Originally by: clone 1
LIES
Devblog: "Ghost Training was an unintended feature where unpaid accounts of EVE Online were able to continue training skills."
But in the Official player guide
Player Guide: Skills continue training even if you are logged off or if your account is inactive (in the second scenario you can't change skill training, though). Linkage Just in case
Even when taking a secound chance to explain the action, you still mess it up.
can we make this txt bigger so ccp can see how bad they are at telling lies
The man speaks the truth
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Zsani
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Posted - 2008.10.14 08:37:00 -
[1267]
Nice to see after the last night that ccp deleting and moderating everything they can in a hurry.
Well they can kiss my a.. from now on. 2 alt accounts already canceled.
Lies will be still lies CCP!!!4 Even if you tries to hide them, people will know it and will never come back.
Byes
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Eldar Boon
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Posted - 2008.10.14 08:37:00 -
[1268]
I believe that removing the "ghost training" documented feature, is terrible way to treat your loyal customers. To claim it is a bug is despicable behavior; to remove the feature without warning, and shortly after a campaign to encourage people to take on extra accounts shows little respect to your player base.
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dojocan81
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Posted - 2008.10.14 08:37:00 -
[1269]
Originally by: Lijhal i do not understand, why after 5 years, they are changing this "feature" of EvE-Online into a "bug" ... 5 god damned years !!!
So, if you are going to change this, please consider to give the player base following options:
Player Base 1. movement of characters for FREE onto other accounts, for, lets say, a month
2. the option to merge existing characters into one
3. Skill Queque
4. All characters on one Account can learn Skills
this!
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nathaniel flanders
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Posted - 2008.10.14 08:38:00 -
[1270]
Ghost training was THE major reason to create a second account for me as well. And it still is a major feature when i try to pursuade friends to reactivate their accounts, as they could play another game for the time beeing and not fall behind in skillpoints. Nokidding, it works with 2 of them from time to time.
What makes me angry is that it was advertised as a feature, now it's a bug. Even more that this information comes only 2 days ahead.
The only good thing with this is, that i won't extend my 2nd accounts subscription. Multi accounts and alts suck.
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Mr Horizontal
Gallente KIA Corp KIA Alliance
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Posted - 2008.10.14 08:40:00 -
[1271]
The Good
Good for Elder players This protects older players being able to have an advantage in the game over younger players.
Cleaner subs It provides CCP with a cleaner subscription base. Not bigger or smaller, it means that players will justify the number of accounts they have.
The Bad
Bad for Younger players At 2 years, I'm on the young side of a middle aged player. However, my contemporaries are all double my SP, and I'm having to fly side-by-side with players who are twice as skilled as I.
Now I have achieved a hell of a lot in EVE. I have Capitals, I look after over a trillion ISK of other people's money (EBANK), I make more ISK than I need, and I have never needed to use Ghost Training, since I can justify all 15 characters I use across all my 5 accounts.
What I have done, though, is buy pre-trained characters, who have in all likelihood used Ghost Training to get the character to a saleable level. A lot of people who aren't so good at making money in EVE train characters as a profession. This therefore really hurts both the trainers and buyers.
The necessary alt spam There are also quite stringent limitations on characters. As I said, I have 15 characters, 5 of which are highly skilled and specialised. All the others are a variety of: - Trade alts, in different empires to ensure I can sell anywhere in EVE, and be able to check prices across the EVE Galaxy. - Cyno alts, a really nasty but necessary character to be able to use capitals at all - R&D and Manufacturing alts. Because of the stringent limitations in manufacturing and research slots you have per character, every single one of my characters has the necessary skills to run 9 R&D jobs and 9 manufacturing jobs. That's 135 slots for each, and you know what? It's still not enough! Skills should be boosted significantly to accomodate more slots per toon.
The Ugly
Research points No mention has been made whether R&D research points will be halted, but I suspect that you haven't considered this yet. If you do stop RP gains, this becomes a good point, but it's ugly while it's still around. By stopping RP, this will make RP and datacores more valuable, thus rebalancing invention somewhat - a much needed move.
Skill training lengths You have made a big problem for yourselves CCP with being careless in deciding the skill ranks. I believe any skills in progression that have a difference of 2 or more need to be reconsidered. For example ship classes having a difference of two ranks from Frigate to Cruiser need to only be one. The problem is that players join EVE and spend a year finding the game they want to play. After that year, they specialise more and more in the game they have chosen.
You need to allow players who really play EVE to the fullest be able to match and surpass their contemporaries. Ghost Training allowed this, but now it's not there and all players will always now have a glass ceiling.
Festering bug Now, I don't like exploits as much as you do CCP, and I agree that Ghost Training isn't something that's particularly good for the game.
However, you've let it fester for so long, that it's part of the game now, and changing it like this really upsets a lot of people's play and fun in EVE. I strongly urge you to reconsider being a little more gentle on this.
What I propose is that you stop skill training 30 days after a character has been deactivated. This would be fair, to stop the people really abusing the exploit, while not penalising absolutely everyone.
If this was a bug, why wasn't it removed at the beginning of the game, like 2004 at the very latest?
Chairman | www.eve-bank.net |
rens research
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Posted - 2008.10.14 08:43:00 -
[1272]
Originally by: Mr Horizontal
However, you've let it fester for so long, that it's part of the game now, and changing it like this really upsets a lot of people's play and fun in EVE.
IT IS NOT A BUG
CCP even sell it as a feature of the game as per the players guide
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Alleneara
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Posted - 2008.10.14 08:44:00 -
[1273]
Originally by: Zartoll Thank you CCP!! I agree that someone should not be allowed to train their account while their subscription is inactive no matter the so-called justification on their part. If you don't pay for gas to put into your car then your car runs out and stops... should be no different here.
It's more like an airplane going out of gas, at which point you can't really control it much, but you'll still be moving... for a while. Then it stops. Just like Ghost Training.
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ArmyOfMe
Developmental Neogenics Amalgamated
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Posted - 2008.10.14 08:45:00 -
[1274]
Originally by: NereSky
Originally by: Delos Korelian
Originally by: Jinx Barker
... ever since the "old" guard of the developers left active EVE online roles CCP customer service, CCP customer attunes, and general CCP attitude toward its player base has gone to shit.
Aint that the truth
Qft
/signed things havnt been the same since old devs left. the new ones just dont seem to have the same understanding of the game
Originally by: deadmaus
Because by the time we had calmed Plague down after he heard BoB were back in the vicinity it was too late to do anything |
Kcahrah
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Posted - 2008.10.14 08:46:00 -
[1275]
Money Money Money
the difference between us dollard and euro that CCP don't care about it, after that the 60 Day GTC, for make more money because guys buy card one month after one month
now the ghost training ^^, NO it's not for money claim CCP it's just a bug fixing
5 year for a bug fixing ?? don't lie to your customer you just want us to pay in continue
in other game dual account is forbiden maybe you can fix this bug too ??
want to win money ? now you lose one more customer THX CCP
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maya ibuki2
54th Knights Templar THORN Alliance
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Posted - 2008.10.14 08:46:00 -
[1276]
/me wonders if ccp are ever gonna be honest about this batch of frakking pathetic lies their trying to fool us all with. as an aside, i, like others, have taken a screendump of the FAQ, which states that training while accounts are inactive is a feature of this game, and is infact one of teh selling points; so that when ccp do get round to ninja'ing the FAQ, well all have plenty of copies of the truth to spam them with.
i dont personally care about the training thing, its the utter bullsh*t were getting fed about it thats got me hacked right off: ccp need to learn to treat its playerbase with the respect it deserves!! maya ibuki2-currently thorn alliance pvper, proud member of the 54th knights templar and genral shooty type |
James Marshalll
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.10.14 08:47:00 -
[1277]
Originally by: Hamlin Brown So you have to pay to play the game, thats the idea stupid.
If you want to train skills then pay for it, don't cry like a baby when a bug is fixed. What happens if the whole player base starts doing this? We won't have a game ? Do you think the programmers work for free ?
The best things in life are free, eve is not one of them.
before you call people "stupid" you should think further then the edge of your seat about what you are saying.
What Ghost training did for a lot of players was give them incentive to come BACK to the game after a month hiatus for whatever reason. What this did was allow people who were burnt out, couldn't afford it for a month, or just wanted to go outside to still keep up while knowing full well in a month they would be coming back.
For example: I used to play eq, I worked at SCEA. When we would have a new title in production I would be gone for a month or two at a time because I put in 15+ hours a day 7 days a week. When I came back to the game I was so far behind in flags, gear, and levels I quit.
EQ2: Same thing, not as harsh since EQ2 leveling is pretty simple and I had exp potions from my vet status rewards. After a week of realizing I wasn't keeping pace I quit.
WoW: well, lets be honest, I never played =P I can call a shitty game when I see one haha.
You know the only game that ever had me coming back after release of whatever project I happened to be working on at the time? Eve. Know why? Because while I was gone I was still able to advance. There would be 3 months where I would train for 2 and only pay for one, but in the end over 4-5 years of playing I ALWAYS came back.
now, knowing me, and knowing my past I doubt I will ever resub if I need to take an extended break.
I also wanted to add, the tired excuse of you have to pay to play is used and old. I am not "playing" the game while training the skill, even when I am subbed. I am not taking up bandwith on my inactive account, I am not participating in any large scale battles, and I was a reliable source of income for multiple accounts over a given year. Sure maybe not 12 months out of the year, but a good portion of it. Now? I may stick to one account, and if I do ever have to quit for a month there will be the thought of just not coming back. Am I threatening to leave? Nope not right now, but after you get kicked in the teeth so many times, pretty soon there is no teeth left to kick.
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clone 1
Laughing Leprechauns Corporation
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Posted - 2008.10.14 08:48:00 -
[1278]
You can **** off your customers only so many times CCP. This time it's different.
LIES, and MONEY do not go down well.
Enjoy the drama. -------------------------------------------------- The Angels Have the Phone Box |
Caius Sivaris
Dark Nexxus
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Posted - 2008.10.14 08:50:00 -
[1279]
Originally by: Tres Farmer
That is the first time ccp is bloody lying into my face and I'm really really angry about that.
No it's not. That's only the first time it's that obvious. Please resize signature to the maximum allowed size of 400 x 12- pixels. Navigator |
Skogen Gump
Jericho Fraction
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Posted - 2008.10.14 08:52:00 -
[1280]
Originally by: rens research
IT IS NOT A BUG
CCP even sell it as a feature of the game as per the players guide
It may just be that it wasn't enough of a bug to just not be fixed at first, so they said it was a feature - like Jet can Mining and the other things that have happened in Eves time. It does sound like its just hit critical mass now.
That said, I'm only for this change if it benefits my gameplay somehow. I'm a developer in real life and I know well enough that you shouldn't change stuff just for the hell of it. That way, bugs lays!
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RedRage88
Ctrl-Q Inc.
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Posted - 2008.10.14 08:52:00 -
[1281]
From bad to worse, i really hope this doesn't kill eve.
-------------------------------------------------- Monkey see, monkey do |
Johnny Gurkha
Death Cult Covenant
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Posted - 2008.10.14 08:52:00 -
[1282]
As my post on page 1 was removed I'll remove the profanity and say it again, CCP you fail
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Pallidum Treponema
Body Count Inc.
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Posted - 2008.10.14 08:54:00 -
[1283]
CCP. I'm a tech. I work in IT. I'm a bloody good tech, which means that I not only know how to produce a good product, but I also know how to make my customers happy. But enough about that.
Here's how this used to work (in pseudocode):
skill = lastUpdate + timeSinceLastUpdate * skillTrainingSpeed
To fix this "bug", you would simply need to do the following:
if accountExpiredSinceLastSkillUpdate() then skill = lastUpdate + (timeUntilAccountExpired + timeSinceAccountWasRenewed) * skillTrainingSpeed else skill = lastUpdate + timeSinceLastUpdate * skillTrainingSpeed endif
A change like that takes what? One minute? Let's say it has to go through peer review, version control, branching, planning etc. Total time, what? Half an hour?
How long did it take you to write the announcements and devblogs about it? Half an hour? More? ;)
I also don't buy the fact that this was a bug. Sorry, I don't. For it to have been a bug, the original developers would've had to COMPLETELY mess up their design of the skill system. This is not a "feature" that you miss for a total of five years. If it was a bug, it would've been fixed the FIRST time you spotted it. And, as I just proved, a change like that would take what? An hour tops? Heck, let's say one day since I know how development works at times.
One single day to fix a bug, over the course of five years? Assuming you've had 20 developers on average for the past 5 years, it would've been a single day out of 36500, to fix a bug that so badly affected not only the game balance, but CCP as a business.
The fact that your own new players guide, as well as responses by CCP Wrangler on the forums state that you've been aware of this "bug" for quite a while without doing anything about it, further proves my claim that this was never a bug in the first place.
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Stoffl
LFC
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Posted - 2008.10.14 08:55:00 -
[1284]
Edited by: Stoffl on 14/10/2008 08:57:34 Edited by: Stoffl on 14/10/2008 08:56:32 OH NOES! IT'S A BUG! LETS PUT UP A DEVBLOG CLAIMING THAT 5 YEARS LATER! AND LETs NINJA THE EVE-GUIDE FOR GOOD.
Someone make a Ragequitcounter for this new feature. *ImaginePicardFacepalm*
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rens research
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Posted - 2008.10.14 08:56:00 -
[1285]
Originally by: Skogen Gump
Originally by: rens research
IT IS NOT A BUG
CCP even sell it as a feature of the game as per the players guide
It may just be that it wasn't enough of a bug to just not be fixed at first, so they said it was a feature - like Jet can Mining and the other things that have happened in Eves time. It does sound like its just hit critical mass now.
That said, I'm only for this change if it benefits my gameplay somehow. I'm a developer in real life and I know well enough that you shouldn't change stuff just for the hell of it. That way, bugs lays!
I very much doubt that, can you name any other time a bug or problem with a program is sold as a "FEATURE" only later to be removed.
Its an obvious ploy for CCP to attempt to make more money ( as a business thats fine ), but up front telling BS about the reason is not.
Im sure that if they said they were just removing it and not trying to make out some BS about it being a bug, a lot of people wouldnt be as mad as they are.
I for one have now cancelled 6 paid accounts based, not on the ghost training coming in, but CCP lieing through their teeth
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Jasqar
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Posted - 2008.10.14 08:56:00 -
[1286]
Well this does not make sense to me.
Talking of costing you money:)
This last stint i paid you 2 (for 2 accounts) back to back 3 month subs. Was going to take a 36 day or so break while marauder 5 trained on both accounts.
Would of re subbed then for both accounts for 3 months each.
Now? You get 0 from me ever again. Make sense to you?
I have not even logged in other than to change skills for months, so not like i was costing you much in bandwidth either:)
So long EVE, no reason to come back this way again.
Oh -2 accounts if anyone bothering to keep count. Yes they were sporadic in paying you at times, but always came back in the end...till now.
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Cyrus Ageis
Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2008.10.14 08:59:00 -
[1287]
Originally by: Jinx Barker
... ever since the "old" guard of the developers left active EVE online roles CCP customer service, CCP customer attunes, and general CCP attitude toward its player base has gone to shit.
QFT...
Where's Kieron when you need him?
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Todoshi
Caldari Caldari Logistics and Supplies
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Posted - 2008.10.14 08:59:00 -
[1288]
Pyramid quote removed. Navigator
QFT
on the plus side it means never again will i be paying out for 3 subs at any one time, both my alts that have been worked on will be resigned to the pit of inactivity forever....perhaps even my main will too * Signature not within the allowed image size of 400 x 120 pixels - CCP Fallout |
ATARI BABY
Lords Of Guile
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Posted - 2008.10.14 08:59:00 -
[1289]
player guide still same
LIE |
Seeker Ash
Minmatar Tribal Liberation Force
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Posted - 2008.10.14 09:00:00 -
[1290]
Edited by: Seeker Ash on 14/10/2008 09:12:22 I'm worried about the ferocity with which people argue if ghost training should be allowed or not. (It should, too bad for you if you like playing the game so much that you keep playing even when it gets boring to us lesser players and you just can't stand that, but it's a unique perk that sets the game apart and makes players happy and a happy playerbase keeps the game online.)
The real issue as I see it is if the game has a future, or if it will continue to provide less content for more money until not enough players remain. I've lost all interest in playing now because I can't trust if the time, money and emotional commitment I put into the game will come to nothing a few years from now. Maybe I'm alone in this.
Sidenote: Just so you all know, "Lose" is the opposite of "Gain", "Loose" is the opposite of "Tight". I've seen this mistake like 20 times in this thread and the old one, they can't all be spelling errors.
Originally by: Rinaldo Titano but i hope u loose so many subscribers that u need to close
Come on. . .
_________________ "Even space ships pilots get the blues." |
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Skogen Gump
Jericho Fraction
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Posted - 2008.10.14 09:01:00 -
[1291]
Originally by: rens research
I for one have now cancelled 6 paid accounts based, not on the ghost training coming in, but CCP lieing through their teeth
Post their names or it didn't happen ;)
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Mike Vandenberg
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Posted - 2008.10.14 09:01:00 -
[1292]
Right now I run 3 accounts. By the end of this year it will be only 1. Why? Because I cannot Ghost-Train anymore.
-2 accounts
Mike Vandenberg
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Rinaldo Titano
Caldari Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2008.10.14 09:05:00 -
[1293]
The 60day GTC was not important for me. I can afford for isk even if would double the price, or just buy it in eu, so not a big change for me. I never used ghost training, because i liked to play my characters
But by every time u want more money u lying to us is unacceptable to me. U dont fixing lag(or at least not successfull) u dont fixing ships which are broken. u dont fixing things which the playerbase want to be fixed.
U make shiny new features like FW or walking on station which are unmportant for the older playerbase and are just shiny for new customers. So u make just changes which get u more money from existing customers or get new customers. All other changes can wait.....
And than u even LIAING about.....
This changes dont touch me, but i lost my interest in eve and lost my belive in devs, so after my subscription is done im out of this game.
P.S. and not u cant get my stuff. and be happy because if i would give u would play more and devs would get more money and would lie to u again and again.
I liked eve, and im sorry for the playerbase, but i hope u loose so many subscribers that u need to close
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Horny Scientist
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Posted - 2008.10.14 09:06:00 -
[1294]
Yes yes!!!!!!!! You will all cancel your accounts!!! Thats right, ALL the inactive ghost training accounts!!!!!!!!
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Niraco79
Gallente Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.10.14 09:07:00 -
[1295]
i do not ghost training at all as i have too few accounts but yeah i laugh at your marketing guys. They need a little lesson in psychology of the customer before making a decision.
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Rinaldo Titano
Caldari Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2008.10.14 09:10:00 -
[1296]
Originally by: Horny Scientist Yes yes!!!!!!!! You will all cancel your accounts!!! Thats right, ALL the inactive ghost training accounts!!!!!!!!
No. For example i cancel 2 accounts which was fully played and payed in last 2 years. Never tried ghost training and never inactivated the accounts.
Just too much LIES
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Deviana Sevidon
Gallente Panta-Rhei United Front Alliance
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Posted - 2008.10.14 09:13:00 -
[1297]
Oh well. I kept all my accounts active through the last years, even while a long skill was being trained.
I think I will emoragequit... 0 accounts.
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Grojar Flesp
Gallente SQS Group
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Posted - 2008.10.14 09:13:00 -
[1298]
Don't do the ghost training, but.... it still is a bit silly to revoke this feature. As seen on the other pages in this thread, it is indeed a feature, not a bug.
Thing is, is it necessary for CCP to revoke it? Does it need the æextraÆ money or does it need to purge its databases? I donÆt know, the message from the DevÆs was a bit dodgy and therefore IÆm against this æimprovementÆ. On the database bit, if it can't handle 100K+ subscribers, you need to redesign it, not purge it. Or do you intend to stay at the same account numbers (and thus not grow in the future)?
Finally some advice: Don't implement this, it doesn't do you any good CCP.
------------------------- This is so much fun to watch, it's like a kick in the crotch
I can't watch this ------------------------- |
rens research
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Posted - 2008.10.14 09:14:00 -
[1299]
Originally by: Skogen Gump
Originally by: rens research
I for one have now cancelled 6 paid accounts based, not on the ghost training coming in, but CCP lieing through their teeth
Post their names or it didn't happen ;)
CCP can trace the accounts from this toon, they will know if they check, thats all that matters
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Karma
Eve University
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Posted - 2008.10.14 09:14:00 -
[1300]
Originally by: Horny Scientist Yes yes!!!!!!!! You will all cancel your accounts!!! Thats right, ALL the inactive ghost training accounts!!!!!!!!
they went active whenever they wanted to change their skill-training... and then they were actively playing for a month, sometimes more.
no more. that's revenue lost. pure and simple.
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Maranthoric
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Posted - 2008.10.14 09:16:00 -
[1301]
Been playing for 4 years now and wanted to finally start a new character. As I don't have the patience to re-train the learning skills (that already robbed me of 5 weeks of training from my original character thanks to introduction of lower requirements without compensation of those who had to train all the bases to 5 before *that* patch) I was planning on ghosting them all up to 5 over the next few months before activating the account full-time. Guess I can just let that one go out the door then as I refuse to pay $60 to simply have *1* single character that can now start training skills again.
Also, about this being because it isn't fair to the players who don't use this method ... how exactly does it make it better by then punishing them ? Now we have to pay a greater fee for multiple accounts than those who did this for the past 5 years ?
If you're going to stop a "bug" because there is a breach in the game mechanics then you should compensate those that were victims of it's "exploitation" in the first place. If this has been going on since release, then why shouldn't I have access to another character with 70,000,000 skill points as that is what I should have if I was exploiting the system as you claim everyone else was doing while you were aware of this bug.
Hell if y'all are gonna take that route, mind as well limit the amount of SP's on characters to around 30M so that people will have to have an account for every ship class or job they would ever want to do in EVE, imagine the profits that you would turn out!
... Is it just me, or does it seem like every year it gets easier and easier to not play this game anymore ?
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ThunderGodThor
KIA Corp KIA Alliance
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Posted - 2008.10.14 09:16:00 -
[1302]
Originally by: Pallidum Treponema The fact that your own new players guide, as well as responses by CCP Wrangler on the forums state that you've been aware of this "bug" for quite a while without doing anything about it, further proves my claim that this was never a bug in the first place.
/me waves at Pallidum excorp mate.
Just for the record CCP fixed this on the china server what year and half or 2 years ago. The statements at the time were this was to remain a feacher on this server. If any one wants to be post ****s feel free to go looking back through it all. But if ccp want to commit suicide in this let them there own stupidity. I do suspect that it wont remain too long as from what happened last time. after all it was a messup on the patch notes missing the note taht it only was for china caused a shit storm last time.
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swoj
The New Order. CODE RED ALLIANCE
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Posted - 2008.10.14 09:17:00 -
[1303]
Granted I can see the point, why should non-paying accounts progress, however given the length of time this has actually been a 'feature' of the game I think the timing of this decision is very, very poor.
It's a bit of a kick in the teeth to customers. Not only are we experiencing major problems in the world economy (and for most people that put's doubts on job security) but as that was starting to happen, the cost of playing Eve was increased for many people (by way of the 60day GTCs). And now the people that are being forced to take a break from Eve will now not gain any skills for when they come back.
I've just canceled two accounts, and this account will allowed to expire next month. My intention had been to return again in 6 to 9 months - so honestly, what impact real are my characters going to see by gaining 30 to 40 days of training time? (aside from the capital skills, there are virtually no skills that will take more than a month to train). Always thought that allowing the skills to train was a useful way of encouraging people back to the game.
Also, how exactly is this going to work - when an account expires, is the players current SP going to be saved and their current skill cancelled? Will SP be lost if a character was halfway through a skill when the account actually expires (or on Oct 15th when this feature is implemeneted)?
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Glengrant
TOHA Heavy Industries
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Posted - 2008.10.14 09:17:00 -
[1304]
Originally by: Lijhal i do not understand, why after 5 years, they are changing this "feature" of EvE-Online into a "bug" ... 5 god damned years !!!
Tolerating rare use is different from seeing this become more common. Of course if that bug/feature never existed there would be 0 whines about it now. And I don't believe anybody who claims that ghost training made him start playing EVE. And if GT was all that kept someone in game - bye bye.
Originally by: Lijhal
So, if you are going to change this, please consider to give the player base following options:
1. movement of characters for FREE onto other accounts, for, lets say, a month
Might be a good idea.
Originally by: Lijhal
2. the option to merge existing characters into one
Bad idea for several reasons - main one being that it is too troublesome to begin with.
Originally by: Lijhal 3. Skill Queque
Won't happen - and for good reasons. Main one being that skill queues make it way too efficient for char farmers to mass produce chars for sale. Also this is way overestimated. So your skill finishes in the middle of the night and you loose a couple hours before you start the next skill - big deal (not). People talk like it is important to have trained every single hour - it really is not.
Originally by: Lijhal 4. All characters on one Account can learn Skills
Again makes it too easy to mass produce chars for sale. Also would encourage people to fill all char slots so they can reap maximum SP per account. EVE does not need more alts.
Originally by: Lijhal
1. More content, more ships
There's plenty of ships already. I'd like them to concentrate on some other stuff for a few patches. More content - always good. But the main content of EVE is and always was - other people. NPCs can't really compete with that.
Originally by: Lijhal more missions
Rather make the current number more clever and varied.
Originally by: Lijhal
more 0.0
Not much point - will all be claimed on day 1.
Originally by: Lijhal please stay unique and no not become something similiar like SoE ... goddamned!
is this so hard ?
CCP/EVE is nothing like SoE/SWG.
Threads like this one is just your regular whine threadnaught. The change is not evil. It won't destroy the game. Half the guys who say they will cancel all accounts won't. Most of those that do won't be missed.
I'm with those who wondered why this didn't happen sooner. This could/should have happened 2004 - so just be happy about the up to 4 years of extra time of ghost training you had.
Anybody who quits over this - good riddance. The game will be better without your type. --- Save the forum: Think before you post. ISK BUYER = LOOSER EVE TV- Bring it back!
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Vek NaVek
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Posted - 2008.10.14 09:18:00 -
[1305]
Originally by: Horny Scientist Yes yes!!!!!!!! You will all cancel your accounts!!! Thats right, ALL the inactive ghost training accounts!!!!!!!!
A typically ghosttrained alt is active more than its not. On average 9 months out of 12.
Because of the recent promotions of Power of 2, and there has been more Power of 2 offers recently than in the past, there are more characters (alts) now than before that are approacing the age where they have long skills to train.
I wonder how many will return.
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Vikarion
Caldari Hunters Imperiale
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Posted - 2008.10.14 09:19:00 -
[1306]
Originally by: Vek NaVek
Originally by: Horny Scientist Yes yes!!!!!!!! You will all cancel your accounts!!! Thats right, ALL the inactive ghost training accounts!!!!!!!!
A typically ghosttrained alt is active more than its not. On average 9 months out of 12.
Because of the recent promotions of Power of 2, and there has been more Power of 2 offers recently than in the past, there are more characters (alts) now than before that are approacing the age where they have long skills to train.
I wonder how many will return.
Not mine! --------
EVE - The only non-consensual PvP MMORPG*
*Note: does not contain non-consensual PvP as of 9/3/2008
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Balthareiks
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Posted - 2008.10.14 09:19:00 -
[1307]
Although I have nothing against this update I don't think it's fair for some players. There is a statement in players guide that imply, that you can train if your account is inactive. There also exist conformation on this "issue" directly from CCP staff in written format on the forums. In case anyone decided to "buy" another account becouse of this "sale point" and then you "sold it" at that timea and for taht reason, you were actually making, although unintentionaly, a forgery. Correct me if I'm wrong, becouse I don't know Islandic law good enough to be 100% behind my previous assumption.
I only have 1 account and pay for it if I play, but if you decide on this update, then I hope you'll be at least fair enough and make inactive accounts trully inactive. I wonder if you will use "inactive" accounts "active" for your own good like: - keeping market stable with allowing for this inactive accounts to still sell things - allowing inactive accounts to produce, invent, gather RP, "polish" BPO's and other simillar things - bounties that were placen on someone's head - who will return them if the owner decides to quit that accoount due to "ghost training" - I bet there are other things that exist in game and did not came to my mind right now, but should be made inactive for inactive accounts
Generally I support this idea, as long as it's clean and no one gets robbed of things he deserves or taht he already bought with real money. This can be understood in two ways, positive for those that gained something as well as for others (us), tahat would gain if you pull everything from the market, contracts, RP... taht belongs to inactive characters.
Best regards, Balth
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Azuraito
Caldari Capital Produce Free Trade Zone.
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Posted - 2008.10.14 09:20:00 -
[1308]
Way to go CCP
Best news i heard this year!
Originally by: Joshua Foiritain Hiding would be the way to go.
The mods ganked my Sig :( |
Llywellyn
Gallente Ordnace Research and Development
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Posted - 2008.10.14 09:20:00 -
[1309]
Can I have everyoneÆs stuff?
I donÆt think ccp will loose much money because people choose to cancel already semi canceled accounts, It will balance out; the ones who keep it active 6 months a year will permanently cancel while the other persons will choose to activate the semi active for 12 months. It will balance out. In the meantime can I have all the peopleÆs isk and minerals and ships to add to my capital?
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Kel Zon
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Posted - 2008.10.14 09:20:00 -
[1310]
Wow...The level of concern about fairness that the Goons display for the rights of their fellow players is staggering.
Training skills while not paying is ***** anyway you slice it...Thanks for playing though.
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xOmGx
Warriors tribe Red Alliance
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Posted - 2008.10.14 09:22:00 -
[1311]
i cheked few names thay are not exist in eve anymore... so it's true ppl's deleting their accaunts
No Pain - No Gain |
Rhiannon Le'Tent
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Posted - 2008.10.14 09:22:00 -
[1312]
CCP's just F**ked itself up the ass with barbed wire. . Whomever the dumbass was that though this alteration would net them more cash has his head up his ass. I currently have 2 accounts both are set to auto renew for 1 year, I will be emailing the eve support team to get instructions on setting them so they won't auto renew.. Hopefully when next march rolls around it's time to renew my subscriptions, Diablo III will be released. Maybe I'll save $262.80 USD next year. Black holes are where God divided by zero. by Steven Wright. |
Wodanonline
Divine Retribution Sons of Tangra
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Posted - 2008.10.14 09:23:00 -
[1313]
well i understand. But at least be honest and say its a way to make more money for ccp.
dont use lame excuses that are true but is not the real reason.
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Kerfira
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Posted - 2008.10.14 09:24:00 -
[1314]
Very good change. About effing time....
Now, remember to kill RP generation, production and research too while accounts are inactive.
Originally by: CCP Wrangler EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
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Rinaldo Titano
Caldari Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2008.10.14 09:24:00 -
[1315]
Originally by: Glengrant
Originally by: Lijhal i do not understand, why after 5 years, they are changing this "feature" of EvE-Online into a "bug" ... 5 god damned years !!!
Tolerating rare use is different from seeing this become more common. Of course if that bug/feature never existed there would be 0 whines about it now. And I don't believe anybody who claims that ghost training made him start playing EVE. And if GT was all that kept someone in game - bye bye.
Originally by: Lijhal
So, if you are going to change this, please consider to give the player base following options:
1. movement of characters for FREE onto other accounts, for, lets say, a month
Might be a good idea.
Originally by: Lijhal
2. the option to merge existing characters into one
Bad idea for several reasons - main one being that it is too troublesome to begin with.
Originally by: Lijhal 3. Skill Queque
Won't happen - and for good reasons. Main one being that skill queues make it way too efficient for char farmers to mass produce chars for sale. Also this is way overestimated. So your skill finishes in the middle of the night and you loose a couple hours before you start the next skill - big deal (not). People talk like it is important to have trained every single hour - it really is not.
Originally by: Lijhal 4. All characters on one Account can learn Skills
Again makes it too easy to mass produce chars for sale. Also would encourage people to fill all char slots so they can reap maximum SP per account. EVE does not need more alts.
Originally by: Lijhal
1. More content, more ships
There's plenty of ships already. I'd like them to concentrate on some other stuff for a few patches. More content - always good. But the main content of EVE is and always was - other people. NPCs can't really compete with that.
Originally by: Lijhal more missions
Rather make the current number more clever and varied.
Originally by: Lijhal
more 0.0
Not much point - will all be claimed on day 1.
Originally by: Lijhal please stay unique and no not become something similiar like SoE ... goddamned!
is this so hard ?
CCP/EVE is nothing like SoE/SWG.
Threads like this one is just your regular whine threadnaught. The change is not evil. It won't destroy the game. Half the guys who say they will cancel all accounts won't. Most of those that do won't be missed.
I'm with those who wondered why this didn't happen sooner. This could/should have happened 2004 - so just be happy about the up to 4 years of extra time of ghost training you had.
Anybody who quits over this - good riddance. The game will be better without your type.
Dear friend. If u could read and u would have the patient to read trough all this pages u would realise that the most of the players are not angry because this bug/feature would be removed, they angry because the LIES devs telling us, and because this become to be a trend by this greedy company
Fly safe and have fun
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Ichinomiya Chiaki
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Posted - 2008.10.14 09:26:00 -
[1316]
Originally by: Llywellyn Can I have everyoneÆs stuff?
I donÆt think ccp will loose much money because people choose to cancel already semi canceled accounts, It will balance out; the ones who keep it active 6 months a year will permanently cancel while the other persons will choose to activate the semi active for 12 months. It will balance out. In the meantime can I have all the peopleÆs isk and minerals and ships to add to my capital?
No, i'll delete or sell my 4 account stuffs for left one. So you want to get my stuff, buy it to me LOL
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Rakhkain
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Posted - 2008.10.14 09:26:00 -
[1317]
Personally, being torn between MMOs which I really like and unfortunately due to rl reasons (family, work etc) being unable to get really involved in them as I would like, EVE's ghost training was always a good incentive to come back to EVE. You would see something new, maybe a new ship class or some more versatility in your character.
Removing this "bug" is not a deal breaker for me. But suddenly, after all this years of advertising this as a feature, to call it a bug and make a blog claiming unfairness to other players, is annoying to say the least. Especially after game guides, and old posts from DEVs never once called it as such (a "bug").
Well, simple fact for me, next time I get bored with EVE, there will be one less thing to pull me back again.
My 2 cents.
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Total Disaster
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Posted - 2008.10.14 09:26:00 -
[1318]
Edited by: Total Disaster on 14/10/2008 09:26:10 can you please remove the Skillpoints that characters got while being inactive too?
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clone 1
Laughing Leprechauns Corporation
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Posted - 2008.10.14 09:27:00 -
[1319]
Edited by: clone 1 on 14/10/2008 09:35:21 I have never shut down an account in protest, or threatened to close one. But CCP, the lies are just too much.
I will end up closing 3 accounts irrespective of whatever wishywashy way you address the issue in the coming days.
This is not so much about the change to 'ghost' training, but the LIES for the reasons behind it.
-------------------------------------------------- The Angels Have the Phone Box |
Amarr Hyena
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Posted - 2008.10.14 09:27:00 -
[1320]
Edited by: Amarr Hyena on 14/10/2008 09:27:39 estimated cancels incase no one has done it (I skimmed, used lowest numbers, sure theres more)
-82
thats just this thread btw. still got the other to look at.
edited cause someone above cancelled. ------- ghost training Threadnaught V. Skills continue training even if you are logged off or if your account is inactive. |
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Hulk x
Minmatar Republic University
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Posted - 2008.10.14 09:27:00 -
[1321]
1)This was one feature that I did not use but joined the game because of it. It was always reassuring that my skills did not stop just because my credit card expired or I forgot to renew. You should give some kind of time between payment stops and skill being stopped.
2)If you do implement this then do not act like its a bug and explain your actions.
3)Many people train long skills the "PAY" again and change the skill. Or sell the char and "PAY" again to transfer it. They are paying customers if you did not realize it. And they isk they get is also used in the game guess for what? Paying for GTC which someone has "PAID" for and sold it for isk.
4)Where is skill queuing now that you have fixed this bug?
5)Where is notification that you could not charge my Credit Card with out cutting me off?
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Veldya
Guristari Freedom Fighters
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Posted - 2008.10.14 09:28:00 -
[1322]
I don't really care either way as I have never ghost trained.
MMOs need goodwill between the player base and the developers and I don't think this change will do much for goodwill.
I think a better way would have been to eliminate ghost training but give something back in return.
You wouldn't have got the kind of negative feedback if you a) admitted that it was freely given in the past and not a bug that needed fixing but CCP was losing a lot of revenue that could have been put back into the game.
And b), to compensate for the change CCP is implementing a training scheduler into the account management section of the website which will allow you to alter what is currently being trained and queue up skills to be trained allowing players to maximize their training and be able to alter training outside of the client. Kinda like EVEMon but only that the planner will change what is currently being trained.
I think people would have thought it is a shame to lose ghost training but we are getting a fantastic tool instead. A big negative for me is if I go away for 3 months I lose a lot of training unless I get someone else to manage it and that isn't ideal.
ATM players are losing a feature that was a selling point of the game and getting nada in return. Not the best "people management" strategy.
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xOmGx
Warriors tribe Red Alliance
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Posted - 2008.10.14 09:28:00 -
[1323]
Yes kill production/RP generation/Trade offers...
If ppl's telling the truth and iven with credit card non stop subscribtion thay can have 1 day inactive... and if production stops (meaning loosing of all materialls).. and if this charr will be involven in Titan/mothership construction, well you got my point.
No Pain - No Gain |
Kerfira
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Posted - 2008.10.14 09:28:00 -
[1324]
Originally by: xOmGx i cheked few names thay are not exist in eve anymore... so it's true ppl's deleting their accaunts
... or those of your friends you arranged to check have recycled their posting alts....
We'll see that same about this as we've seen for all other emoragequit issues... 5 players out of the 5000 threatening to do so will quit, with 4 of them coming back within a month or two....
Nobody likes to do without their free lunch, but they'll accept paying for lunch when they get hungry.
Originally by: CCP Wrangler EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
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Glengrant
TOHA Heavy Industries
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Posted - 2008.10.14 09:28:00 -
[1325]
Originally by: Mike Vandenberg Right now I run 3 accounts. By the end of this year it will be only 1. Why? Because I cannot Ghost-Train anymore.
-2 accounts
Mike Vandenberg
Your "tone" suggests this is a bad thing (and whether it is for CCPs bottom line or not - shrug - they know best). But to me that sounds *good*.
A bunch of alts gone that don't get played much - perhaps kept in incubation to be sold later - hurray.
Of course when you say "run 3 accounts" you made it sound all impressive - but actually you don't usually "run" those 2 accounts or GT would not be an issue for you. So it's anything between 1.5 to 2.x accounts - depending on your percentage of GT months.
Somebody else canceling 6 accounts due to GT - probably only a net loss of ca 1-3 accounts.
I would love to see a statistic about how many people threatening to quit over something actually do go ahead with it and never come back. I'm sure it's less than 100% - but could be anything between 10 or 90. --- Save the forum: Think before you post. ISK BUYER = LOOSER EVE TV- Bring it back!
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Miss CJB
Gallente In White Suits
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Posted - 2008.10.14 09:29:00 -
[1326]
theres more than once person in ccp? right?
how can 2 or more people make such a monumentaly stupid decision?
nobody wins in this situation, not eavon ccp.
i have as many accounts active as i can afford to have active. the change just means instead of haveing 7 accounts w/ 3-5 active, i will now only have 3 accounts. as you can see, ccp is clearly loseing money.
the dev blog is aload of ball ****, its full of lies AND was published half a day befor its due to go live. get the fealing there trying to sneek this one under the raidar? then realised that if people dont know about it, they cant resub there alts, so better tell them.
i have to admit, i am flabagasted that ccp, not only could consider doing this, but do it with only 1/2 a days notace, with aload of boched up excuses which a 2 yearold could see through.
comeone ccp, what happend to the days when you listend to your playerbase?
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Jowen Datloran
Caldari Science and Trade Institute
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Posted - 2008.10.14 09:29:00 -
[1327]
Originally by: Glengrant
CCP/EVE is nothing like SoE/SWG.
No they are not, but they are trying to be. That is what makes it all moronic. ---------------- Mr. Science & Trade Institute
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Tzaris
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Posted - 2008.10.14 09:31:00 -
[1328]
LIE LIE LIE LIE LIE LIE LIE LIE LIE
I dont like when someone who takes my money lies to me in return...
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Confuzer
Volition Cult The Volition Cult
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Posted - 2008.10.14 09:32:00 -
[1329]
Edited by: Confuzer on 14/10/2008 09:33:40 I totally agree on the change. I was a bug, and it was weird is was never fixed.
But:
- Why now? With the economic thing. Your timing sucks and you know it.
- "But recently we have seen a surge in this behavior in a way that we were essentially supporting and maintaining a large number of customers that weren't paying us regular subscriptions."
Right, no way it weighs heavy in any way. You use indexes and start timers for a skill which act on events from clients. We are talking about a row coupling a user to a skill he is training and a start time. That's it. Did you get bilions of new users all of a sudden? Because your database can take MUCH, and you know it. So avalanche? not really. And if so, please explain this to a fellow programmer? ----------------- Destiny is not a matter of chance. It is a matter of choice. It's not a thing to be waited for - it is a thing to be achieved. |
yarrmarr
Ministry of War
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Posted - 2008.10.14 09:32:00 -
[1330]
Originally by: Wodanonline well i understand. But at least be honest and say its a way to make more money for ccp.
dont use lame excuses that are true but is not the real reason.
this.
what a sneaky move CCP. nailing customers is never a good businessmodel in the long run. add my two accounts to the thrashlist.
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Midas Man
Caldari Dzark Asylum
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Posted - 2008.10.14 09:38:00 -
[1331]
First the F*** about with GTC pricing and cause GTC for ISK to increase drastically.
Now alot of people running multiple account cannot afford to keep them all active and so have taken to "ghost" Training on a few account and rotating them around. So CCP nerf that.
Unless you are in a huge corp that can field Blobs, Nano is your only option of remaining "relatively" safe. Nerf is coming on that.
All the new feature of the game seem to be aimed at New players.
A game that is 5 years old will find it difficult to compete for new players, not impossible as Eve gets its fair share but it will never get 1 million new customer in a month releasing a new player feature.
CCP you should realise that most of your income comes from player who have been around for years and all your doing at the moment is going round hitting all your paying customer with a nerf bat.
Look at your current stratagy and change it because right now your walking down a path to destruction especially when there are new competitors in the making.
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Shevar
Minmatar A.W.M Libertas Fidelitas
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Posted - 2008.10.14 09:39:00 -
[1332]
Edited by: Shevar on 14/10/2008 09:40:49 This should have been done 4 years ago if you didn't intend this "feature".
Not now.
The only way I can see this being implemented with just a bit of grumbling instead of an outcry is if you would have implemented a proper skill que and "needed" to disable ghost training to avoid year long skill plans being "ghost trained". --- -The only real drug problem is scoring real good drugs |
Gaurina
Oberon Incorporated Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2008.10.14 09:42:00 -
[1333]
I don't know why I'm replying to this topic since it will most likely just get lost in the flood of replies, but here goes.
I first started playing this game in end of April 2006 and have since then only taken one break from it for about 6 months or so. It was really lovely to return to the game on 2 accounts with battleship trained to lvl5 while I was away. I actually didn't plan on returning but was glad that I did because since then I've been playing almost non stop and along the way I have met a lot of people and made good friends.
Being Icelandic and all I suddenly faced having to pay double or even triple the amount for my next subscription compared to my last and being the optimistic I am, I believe that we as a nation will recover very soon. Because of this current crisis I saw myself forced to cancel my subscription on all 3 accounts to be able to pay my other bills and keep on living. I do not have a mission alt (yet) that I can use to make ISK and buy GTC, I don't have high end moons that can pay my subscription and my industry is just big enough to pay for my ships. I don't have these things because I don't believe that when I come home from work I should get to another one, EvE is entertainment to me and not work.
2 weeks after I cancel my subscription this announcement comes. I feel that I'm being betrayed by the company that I've paid so much money to and shown support and dedication to over the years.
Support from CCP has been going downhill for the past months in my opinion and this is just the icing on cake, cherry on top, r·sfnan f pylsuendanum... ( icelandic saying, no need to translate but it's not rude ). This lack of support is between me and CCP and I will not go into that further.
So where do I stand?
I was going to leave my 3 subscriptions inactive for about 2 or 3 months while the current crisis balanced itself out and renew it after that time. From day one of my playing this feature has been enabled and I've actually advertised the game to people with this feature as one of the best. I can't keep my subscription active for the time being and with this latest move from CCP I see absolutely no reason to reactivate my accounts once things balance out.
Enough whine, time to get some cheese.
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Skogen Gump
Jericho Fraction
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Posted - 2008.10.14 09:44:00 -
[1334]
Originally by: Midas Man
all your doing at the moment is going round hitting all your paying customer with a nerf bat.
It certainly doesn't cause me any problems at all so it's not 'all your paying customer' [sic]. As I've said, my only concern is that it's a change for changes sake and as someone else has pointed out, this has a chance to work out to less income for CCP. After all, if an account is being ghost-trained for a while, it's very likely that it will be resubbed to put something in the queue.
If people could be less inflammatory and more constructive, we've a better chance of CCP listening to us.
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Sean Drake
Caldari Dirty Deeds Corp. Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2008.10.14 09:50:00 -
[1335]
Edited by: Sean Drake on 14/10/2008 09:54:30 GREED the only quick answer to this garbage
So they increased the cost of GTC's and then this watch for the incoming price hike on subs.
Either there econemy collapsing has hit them hard or quite frankly they want to downsize EvE to free up resources on there new project without having to spend money to hire new ppl.
and incase you had not guessed then this is a bad idea it was a bad idea a few years ago when they anounced it last time and then back tracked so hopefully they will take there heads out of there rectums long eniough to do the same again.
Welcome to the end days is that fiddling I can hear
If Goons AND BoB are agreeing with each other that your idea is stupid, it's probably stupid.
CCP has bee |
Kayoshu
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Posted - 2008.10.14 09:51:00 -
[1336]
This should have been announced BEFORE "the power of 2" offer !!
Reasons you explain are lies, and method is completely dishonest
There is the horrific smell of marketing people in there, marketing will kill this game
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Sean Drake
Caldari Dirty Deeds Corp. Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2008.10.14 09:51:00 -
[1337]
Originally by: NereSky
Originally by: Delos Korelian
Originally by: Jinx Barker
... ever since the "old" guard of the developers left active EVE online roles CCP customer service, CCP customer attunes, and general CCP attitude toward its player base has gone to shit.
Aint that the truth
Qft
Oh and this
If Goons AND BoB are agreeing with each other that your idea is stupid, it's probably stupid.
CCP has bee |
Xultanis
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Posted - 2008.10.14 09:52:00 -
[1338]
CCP, you have a loyal player base here. Yes, things did go shady with the whole BoB incident, and then with the GTC's, and now the ghost training.
Just tell the players honestly what is going on for once. It doesn't hurt you in any way to be honest with us for once. Is CCP in trouble with the financials and do you need help?
Don't take ghost training out completely. Bring back the 30 and 90 gtc's at their regular prices. Ghost training has been around for 4 to 5 years, its not a bug. Your going to lose A lot of subscriptions this way. Think about it mathematically.
1 player has 3 to 4 accounts. 1 or 2 of them always running, which the others coming online at some point. Thats 4 accounts from one paying costumer, even with them overlaping, so you might get payed for 2 subscriptions in one month.
Now bring that back to 1. You guys should have a financials department and I'm pretty sure 1 is smaller than 2 or 3 or 4 (who does have the highest number of accounts??)
Talk to the community at let everyone help you guys through this if your actually hurting. I don't see how you telling your player base you need help is going to hurt you. We love this game and want to keep it alive, what your doing is killing it, and its not dying sweetly....no its running around choking on its own vomit and exiting its own bodily fluids. Its like watching a wounded animal die from some kinda slow extremely painful disease.
Even if its for a little while I would glady pay for a $5 fee to keep my skills training while my account is inactive for whatever time you guys need to get out of this economic crisis. Some money is better then no money right?
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Mashie Saldana
Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams
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Posted - 2008.10.14 09:56:00 -
[1339]
I actually like this change, just make sure inactive players don't gain RP's and their production/research jobs get paused (not cancelled) during inactivity.
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xOmGx
Warriors tribe Red Alliance
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Posted - 2008.10.14 09:56:00 -
[1340]
i think BoB incident is forbiden theme here..
But ya GM/CCP Employee givint EXPENSIVE stuff for free...
Did anyone got ship refunding, ships wich has been destroyed by Illegaly build titan?... don't think so.
CCP.. No Pain - No Gain |
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Rekkakuski
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Posted - 2008.10.14 09:57:00 -
[1341]
Even when I have been playing other games, I always paid my 2 accounts, just because ofghost training. I had a reason to activate my accounts.
Now that I play Wow (yeah, I know) little more active, I still *paid* for my 2 accounts, even tho I ghost trained them too. That will end now. I just sell my other account for isk and let other to run out of paid time. I might come back, but it's unlikely.
I have no motivation to pay anymore since I can't train as I have used to.
I didn't like the way GTC's was changed, but this was the last thing I am willing to bear. You REALLY want people to try other games?
And guess what? Most of them won't come back. You did notice that AoC lost most of it's players since things start to suck there and there is alternatives these days. Lagging servers are NOT norm on games anymore.
"So long and thanks for all the fish!"
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Midas Man
Caldari Dzark Asylum
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Posted - 2008.10.14 09:59:00 -
[1342]
Originally by: Skogen Gump
It certainly doesn't cause me any problems at all so it's not 'all your paying customer' [sic].
This will stop alot of people training alts, hell I have 2 account that i don't use anymore but have keep resubbing and training on for almost a year, as I can no longer train them with out full subscription they wont be getting any sub from them ever again.
And as much as you feel safe in that bubble, you will be affected quite badly when subs start sliding.
You can see from all the GTC fiasko that CCP are hard pushed for cash, they may get paid in ú & $ but the Iceland flop will be having its effect.
Everyday the "Loyal" customer base is facing nerf and ramification that they are very vocal in disagreeing with.
All MMO's that make change that P*** off large portions of there community lose large portions of the community.
The GTC stuff was bad, the speed nerf is bad check the size and number of flame post in all dev blogs about it.
And this 1 blog has got almost 1500 replies in less than 12 hours of being published
Go Figure
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Neonoodle
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.10.14 10:00:00 -
[1343]
Edited by: Neonoodle on 14/10/2008 10:02:53 Edited by: Neonoodle on 14/10/2008 10:02:04 Oh Well.
-4 accounts from me, Thank god i didnt act upon my urge to take part in the power of 2 for that Amarr character i wanted. Also pleased i only ordered EON #13 and not renewed for another yearly subscription.
Least i will have new skills and stuff to play with after i come back from 6 months in real life serving Queen and Country in Afghanistain, no wait a minute....................
P.s no you all cant have my stuff, its all going to one account that i might reactivate, one maybe.
P.s.s Takening market orders off and stopping RP on inactive acounts would sit ok with me, but this is disgusting, and thanks for the months or warning.
Neonoodle
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Sergil
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.10.14 10:00:00 -
[1344]
Quote: Username:... Payment Type:EVE Time Code Subscription Status:Active Expires:11/8/2008 1:39:51 PM Extend Transactions made:7
Account will not be payed in November. He will sit offline and imagine that he train something interesting. May be he will be payed later. May be not.
CCP, don't lie to customers that always-existing thing, described in the User's Guide, is a bug. Don't lie, CCP!
------- Less money for CCP in next months! Don't pay for your alts! CCP, don't lie!
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Nex Abyssus
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Posted - 2008.10.14 10:00:00 -
[1345]
and still no response from ccp?
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Hurint
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Posted - 2008.10.14 10:01:00 -
[1346]
Originally by: Jinx Barker
... ever since the "old" guard of the developers left active EVE online roles CCP customer service, CCP customer attunes, and general CCP attitude toward its player base has gone to shit.
qft - stop attacking your fans... if you can even call us that any more
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Zumatha
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Posted - 2008.10.14 10:02:00 -
[1347]
when is jumpgate evolution comming out again? see you there!
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dmxandrei
D00M. Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2008.10.14 10:03:00 -
[1348]
CCP can try to explain their actions all they want we all know its because they're greedy ..they changed the GTC system ....and now they'll stop ghost training. If i would have been a money hungry corporation i would have probably done the same things to force the gamers to pay more money.... Soon enough you will remove even GTC payment. And they mean to tell us that from the begining of EVE ... they couldn't h ave fixed "THIS BUG" untill now? this is so beyound crap .... this is a reason why people had 2-3 accounts ....and now im not sure thata there will be so many people who will have more then one accounts.... And let me point out why this ghost training is NOT a bug....IF A PLAYER TRAINS BS LVL 5 WHICH TAKES ABOUT 30 DAYS AND HIS ACCOUNT EXPIRES HE WILL DEFINETLY PAY HIS SUBSCRIPTION BEFORE THAT SKILL IS OVER ... GHOST TRAINING ATRACTED MORE GAMERS
It seems players have to pay more and more....but when there are petitions ingame gamemasters aren't that willingly to cooperate...they seem somehow stubborn....instead of helping people they ban people...
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Stebbi
General Snus
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Posted - 2008.10.14 10:03:00 -
[1349]
Economic crisis should not hit CCP that hard because their income is in USD and EUR so they can easily match their income vs cost. I don't think the change itself is bad but the way they announced it is VERY strange. Gave us 2 day warning and then talk about unintended feature... they must think we are idiots!
I have canceled my subscription for now because I live in Iceland and I still have to pay in EUR and the price has more than doubled in the last few months. I smell greed like other players and in times like we are facing it is the last think I want to support.
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Sha Dar
eXceeded DeStInY.
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Posted - 2008.10.14 10:04:00 -
[1350]
I've never used this so called "bug" but tbh, I really think they don't give a damn.
The expected avalanche of subscribers when the "Guinea Pig" patch i.e Ambulation hits, will more than compensate for any accounts lost over this, yet another, ccp screwup.
We get to be free beta testers for their new MMO, their sub numbers go up when all the second life sheep and "Omg, i don't care about bugs and shite customer support and stuff, i'll resub just for an avatar" pile in and their bottom line increases... equal ccp - happy.
Roll in Infinity:The Quest For Earth -
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Shoopinou
Gallente Garoun Investment Bank
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Posted - 2008.10.14 10:05:00 -
[1351]
You did lock the previous topic
You warn us 2 days before the change goes in effect ? Usually we have dev blogs for monthes before something (good or bad) goes live. Not this time...
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Piter deVriend
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Posted - 2008.10.14 10:05:00 -
[1352]
Guys and girls. Do not waste your energy. CCP will never listen to its player base. Iceland is Landsbankrupti and this is their way to make more money hoping that they don't have to eat Fish the entire winter.
Whining about it will not help. Petitioning will not help. The only thing that helps is to not pay for alt accounts. We all know (and CCP does too) that you guys will eventually enable your alt accounts again.
CCP here are some more ideas:
- Walking in stations so you can buy clothes and shit like in the sims. - Disable GTC's - Make the euro standard currency - Make a absurd link between the euro and ingame ISK (not real icelandic krona because our banks don't even accept them anymore)
God, let's hope Jumpgate will be a decent game..
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Col Callahan
Caldari Oberon Incorporated Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2008.10.14 10:05:00 -
[1353]
Originally by: Hurint
Originally by: Jinx Barker
... ever since the "old" guard of the developers left active EVE online roles CCP customer service, CCP customer attunes, and general CCP attitude toward its player base has gone to shit.
qft - stop attacking your fans... if you can even call us that any more
_
"Skills continue training even if you are logged off or if your account is inactive (in the second scenario you can't change skill training, though)." |
Ichinomiya Chiaki
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Posted - 2008.10.14 10:06:00 -
[1354]
2008/10/15 ghost train to be removed 2009/xx/xx skill point increase when you on-line 2009/xx/xx sorry ccp's traffic is too heavy. so your skill point increase when you OFFLINE 2010/xx/xx new expansion released. but you pay 30$ if you play that contents. and.. addition pay 30$ when you install that.
LOL
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Lothris Andastar
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Posted - 2008.10.14 10:09:00 -
[1355]
Maybe CCP dont want to give an answer?
Please CCP Devs, just tell these people to STFU and that you will run the game how YOU want too and dont care if a third of eve EMORAGEQUITS
(p.s. I support the removal of ghost training)
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Maestro Ulv
Phaze-9 Apotheosis of Virtue
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Posted - 2008.10.14 10:09:00 -
[1356]
Hmm ok. I only have two accounts, both in the main paid for with Visa although on odd occasions (four times I think in 5 years) I have purchased a GTC.
In all that time I have "ghost trained" once, because right there and then I could not afford to play and simply stopped my sub and not my skills. This period lasted for roughly 5 months and my skill had something like 2 weeks left... not exactly ripping anyone off then...
As for this new bullshit, well its plain crap. We all know it and that includes you CCP people.
I shall be retaining use of my main, this guy, but my industrial alt account will be left to die now so thats another -1 for you.
He was never ghost trained, purchased on the first power of 2 and kept active in all that time, go nosy at the details if ya want CCP. I lose him now because you don't deserve the money from him, if you quit with the bull I'll bring him back (not that I expect you to give a **** about what I do anyway).
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clone 1
Laughing Leprechauns Corporation
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Posted - 2008.10.14 10:09:00 -
[1357]
Originally by: Nex Abyssus and still no response from ccp?
They cannot respond. You are not gona get
"Aw, shucks guys, We didnt know it would hurt you so, we changed our minds"
Or
"This is the way it is, like it or lump it" -: which is a redundant statement
They have said what they wanted to say, in two different untruthful ways You want a third lie? (see what I did there Wrangler, a smiley makes things ok)
-------------------------------------------------- The Angels Have the Phone Box |
Suze'Rain
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.10.14 10:10:00 -
[1358]
Edited by: Suze''Rain on 14/10/2008 10:12:31 well, I would like to add my dissatisfaction with this to the masses.
after more than 4 1/2 years as a subscriber, and having been around the Eve forums for eight years now, this is an incredibly disappointing "under the carpet" announcement
Claiming this is a bug is, frankly absurd. if it is a bug, then claiming it's taken 5 years to fix it is absolute nonsense.
will we also get to see all inactive account sales, buy orders, and other market actions suspended? How about multi-race corporations whose CEO goes inactive, do they revert to 10 members from only one race? how about POSes set up by inactive characters, and so on?
there's been several occasions where my account has lapsed, from when my 3-day trial (yes, 3 days) completed, and I trained caldari frigate 5 while I decided the game was good enough, to completing the last 2-3 days of a skill after a credit card cancellation, secure in the knowledge that the game was'nt going to miss anything out for those last few days.
Now, with this "bugfix", another element of what made CCP stand head an shoulders above the rest of the MMO industry is lost. Another nail in the coffin of showing care and interest for your customers.
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OneSock
Crown Industries
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Posted - 2008.10.14 10:10:00 -
[1359]
This is just so much bullshit I don't know where to start.
You want to talk about unfair ?
You think it's fair I can't use my sub on RL Holiday or business trip ? Your still getting paid sub for time I can't play.
You think it's fair some people can spend 10 hours a day online while others can only manage 10hours a week online ?
You want to start screwing us over like this then it's about time you start billing actual in game time and ditch the subscription for good. Pay to play.
Not got the balls tho, have you.
Well, I admit I ghost train long skills, I've always re-subscribed. Maybe I won't next time.
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Black Prince
STK Industrial N.A.S.A
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Posted - 2008.10.14 10:10:00 -
[1360]
I don't think "hot topic" accurately describes this issue. 100 pages of posts in a few hours? I think you struck an unpopular nerve this time. I have only ghost trained a few times and that's mainly because I've had to go away to RL for a few months on business or study and it's been nice to come back to a new skill without paying for game time I'm not really using.
I understand that CCP is a business and it's all about making money, but eve is more popular now than it's ever been so it strikes me as odd that you'd need to try and get more money out of the player base. I'm pretty sure that there is more money to be made by adding value than taking value away.
I fear you will lose a lot of casual gamers and end up losing more money than you gain by doing this.
Perhaps this reply will never be read by a CCP person but I hope so and I hope you choose to reverse this decision.
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Yoinx
Caldari Gemini Sun
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Posted - 2008.10.14 10:12:00 -
[1361]
An exploit is an exploit.
A bug is a bug.
A feature is a feature.
A bug can be classified as a exploit.
An exploit can be classified as a bug.
A feature can never be classified as an exploit or a bug.
-
I figured I'd put this out there... Since CCP seems confused on this. Once you sell something as a feature you cant turn around and call it a bug. That would be like me selling a car, as is. Then taking the wheels before you leave the lot.
Now personally, I'm only using one account. I think I had a second I was gonna start at one point in time, but decided not to. So I dont use ghost training... But seriously. This flip flop you're doing really seems to screw a lot of people.
Besides I have to ask. You mention the slight load on the databases... One character is what, like 1 row in like 8 databases? Seriously, unless you have a couple million accounts doing it, since that row is most likely only accessed when that account is actually active, and when you're doing backups/optimizations. I find it really hard to believe that there's that much more load on the servers. ESPECIALLY when you've already got the servers down an hour a day (minimum) for maintenance which gives you an uptime of at best 95.84% per year. Seriously... This isnt even counting the days when the servers are unavailable for patches fixes etc outside that hour a day. So given that amount of time for database management, there's no reason that you should see any impact from these inactive accounts. - I wish I had something witty to put in a signature. - |
Lothris Andastar
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 10:12:00 -
[1362]
Originally by: Suze'Rain
after more than 4 1/2 years as a nonstrop subscriber, and having been around the Eve forums for eight years now, this is an incredibly disappointing "under the carpet" announce
Newsflash, CCP run the game not you. I don't care if you've been here since beta you don't run the game CCP does and if you don't like it you can leave, no one is making you stay here
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Tharukan Desm'ar
Gallente The Ninth Circle Accord Corporate Enterprise Syndicate
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 10:12:00 -
[1363]
Edited by: Tharukan Desm''ar on 14/10/2008 10:19:02 Edited by: Tharukan Desm''ar on 14/10/2008 10:17:41 I fully support ccp's doing this. Get what you pay for.
Edit: Less alts are good! Might go some length to individual characters/ players being held accountable for their in game actions for once. Its far too easy for corp thieves and pirates to escape the negative aspects of their lives.
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Vergil 577
Gallente MAIDS
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 10:12:00 -
[1364]
Edited by: Vergil 577 on 14/10/2008 10:13:06 I'm posting with my main because this may have a large effect on whether or not I continue to play EVE because the other people I play this game with oppose this idea with so much fervour that IÆll have no reason to play the game anymore. Also before I make a huge wall of text IÆll sum it up.
1) I donÆt disagree with the change 2) I donÆt what they call it 3) The only thing that matters is how itÆs implemented, what happens and why.
The reason I donÆt disagree with the change is because if I train a long skill letÆs say Titan 5 but have paid sub before I thought of training that but someone else paid in small enough chunks we both take the same base time to train the skill even when the other guyÆs account has gone inactive, now I must say every should think thatÆs even a little unfair. Also if this causes an increase in profit that means (if the company is in debt) they can pay it off and not get ****ed by the economic crisis or they have more money to upgrade the server otherwise or buy someone like CONCORD some more donuts. The reason I donÆt care what they call it is because I donÆt need someone else to stick a label and denounce it good or evil for me to make up my own mind. LetÆs for example take a war. People die, period, it doesnÆt matter what we say about it people still die. You can call it a bug being fixed or a feature being removed it still doesnÆt make it different. The only thing that happens is why they did it, what it does and how they did it. If itÆs because they want to make more money, all power to them, remember CCP is not some special entity that makes the game for the good of the people, they make it for cold hard cash. ItÆs a business, a firm or whatever you want to call it. How itÆs implemented matters to, for instance I personally disagree with the lack of warning and the race to implement this without prior discussion, which does hint at possible financial difficulties inside the company. Also finally the why of it matters, now if you think before to the 2nd point I make I said I donÆt care what they call it, this is a bit different (just in case). If you letÆs say change the functionality of a module, like the disputed energized regenerative membrane, just because the name suggest different functionality youÆre an idiot. If CCP is doing this to earn money for the game and company ok theyÆre a business if theyÆre doing this to recover or protect themselves from an economic crisis ok, if theyÆre doing this because they truly do believe itÆs unfair and disadvantages other players good, but if theyÆre doing this just to screw with you or because they felt like then itÆs bad. Finally I do think however this is financially a bad idea in the long run. Now IÆm not going to give a run-down in numbers but from the looks of things the amount gained from the activation of account due to skill training may not cover the costs of the drop of subscriptions in the first place.
P.S. No you canÆt have all my stuff if I leave itÆs all dying in PvP including my PvE ships, including mining ships, well maybe not that far in case I want to come back but still NO!
602 words
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Geanos
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 10:13:00 -
[1365]
Edited by: Geanos on 14/10/2008 10:14:48 Well, nice one CCP. A feature that kept me in for a long time and made me return to the game when I was taking a break, has now transformed into a bug.
Quoting from your own player guide: "Skills continue training even if you are logged off or if your account is inactive (in the second scenario you can't change skill training, though).". Here is the page
Account status: suspended. I don't like companies that trick the costumers.
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Admrl Cain
Caldari CaldaCorp Quantum Star Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 10:14:00 -
[1366]
Edited by: Admrl Cain on 14/10/2008 10:15:42 CCP disgusts me on so many levels. Specially this one:
F'ing OWND!
What really ****es me off is back in the day, I highly respected Wrangler. Now he's a Liar and a thief in many ways, just like CCP. You people make me sick, so here's what I'm gonna say, and I think I say it on behalf of the entire or majority of the player base that's been in this game since beta and even the newer guys (ESPECIALLY THE NEWER GUYS!):
SCREW YOU CCP, GO TO SCHOOL AND LEARN ABOUT CUSTOMER RELATIONS - PERHAPS EVEN TAKE A COURSE IN "COVERING YOUR ASS". Stupid sons of bi***es.
Now let me clarify: If you guys simply said it was a feature that needed to be disabled for so and so reason, I probably would have backed you guys up but instead you decided to be idiots. Now if this was a mistake on Wrangler and the blog post writer calling it a bug or whatever, or the writer of the post (Assuming it was pre-made) then have them BOTH fired before the do more harm to your already FAILING Corporate Standards on PR/CR Public Relations/Consumor Relations... and hire me because at least I know that with my 2 year college degree I could do your job substantially better than you can. AND I'm a CG artist, woooo. Grow up ccp, this is immature BS you're attempting to pull.
Btw, False advertising is illegal in many countries. ----------------------------------------
Admiral Cain. Yep, that's right.. mmhmmm |
Ratio Legis
Slacker Industries
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 10:15:00 -
[1367]
Personally I'll not be hit by this since I have just one account which I'm keeping active at all times. This however decides whether getting an alt would be worth it - and that's a solid "no" for me as things have developed.
It is disappointing though to see such a move from CCP, especially since, as I learned, the question has been brought up before in connection with removing ghost training from the Chinese server, and CCP have stated numerous reasons why they wouldn't do it on TQ.
In light of this, the blog seems like a weak attempt at justification with little factual information in it. The statement ghost training has been a bug is simply a lie since it has been acknowledged and actively supported, turning it into a de facto feature, and the innuendo that ghost training characters impose a load on the database servers in any significant way can be perceived as false as well by anyone who knows what a database is.
At the end of the day, it's CCP's game and they have the power to do with it as it fits them best. They've not broken any agreement by doing this, and it's even hard to argue it's unethical to try to maximize their profits. However taking away what they've been giving out for years is certainly not a gesture of good will on their part. What it will achieve in reality is that it will hamper players much more than it will generate revenue and CCP cannot be unaware of this. This step speaks volumes about their changing priorities.
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DerArt1st
Texanican Research and Trade Society
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Posted - 2008.10.14 10:15:00 -
[1368]
CCP, you are turning into a pie filled with bullshit.
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Falkrich Swifthand
Caldari eNinjas Incorporated
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 10:15:00 -
[1369]
I support this change. The people who benefited the most from "ghost" training were character farmers, alternating between a paid month of short skills and a "ghost" month of long, level 5 skills. Forcing them to pay for the entire time the character is training (money or ISK for gtcs, doesn't matter) should double the price of farmed characters and put a lot of them to the point where they are not profitable.
While CCP may see some accounts permenantly lapse, I'd like to think that the majority of accounts actually PLAY the game and don't just switch skills and watch their account expire.
I let my account lapse at one point in the past, and set a level 5 skill training like most people. However that skill being trained isn't what caused me to renew my account, because I didn't renew until WELL after it finished, and I don't even remember what it was
nullnull
My sig is not my sig. |
Suze'Rain
Caldari
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 10:15:00 -
[1370]
Originally by: Lothris Andastar
Originally by: Suze'Rain
after more than 4 1/2 years as a nonstrop subscriber, and having been around the Eve forums for eight years now, this is an incredibly disappointing "under the carpet" announce
Newsflash, CCP run the game not you. I don't care if you've been here since beta you don't run the game CCP does and if you don't like it you can leave, no one is making you stay here
Really. I'd never guessed that, given I'm not a CCP dev.
What I was trying to say is that in the last 5 years, it's increasingly a case that the changes like this are being slipped in under the carpet, so to speak, as last-moment additions with a "oh, by the way" note.
and that's what I consider unacceptable, the slide in public relations.
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OneSock
Crown Industries
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Posted - 2008.10.14 10:15:00 -
[1371]
Originally by: Skogen Gump
If people could be less inflammatory and more constructive, we've a better chance of CCP listening to us.
Just
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Seviere
Caldari XBeyond
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Posted - 2008.10.14 10:16:00 -
[1372]
Blog fails so hard it's not even funny.
Watch out the direction you're taking CCP. Most of us don't leave game because we are too hooked to it. But most people with multiple accounts will dump them. GTC's are at a criminal price and you guys end ghost training right after a new power of 2 promotion.
Also lying and plain assuming everyone is stupid is very bad mkay??? This one will cost you big time. |
Maestro Ulv
Phaze-9 Apotheosis of Virtue
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 10:17:00 -
[1373]
Originally by: Lothris Andastar
Newsflash, CCP run the game not you. I don't care if you've been here since beta you don't run the game CCP does and if you don't like it you can leave, no one is making you stay here
Actualy mr troll its the customers that PAY ccp to run the game, no customers, no ccp. BTW nobody is forcing you to post, please stop (hey that really works wrangler! makes ya feel all good about being insulting to people)
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Shmekla
Gallente Kraftwerk.
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Posted - 2008.10.14 10:18:00 -
[1374]
"I must... advance...I must... advance. even if account suspended" Don't you think this is weird?
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Piter deVriend
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 10:18:00 -
[1375]
Originally by: Admrl Cain
I highly respected Wrangler. Now he's a Liar and a thief in many ways, just like CCP.
He's an idiot. Period.
Let's see how CCP people will react at FanFest with all the stunts they pulled the past year. Who brings the tomatoes?
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AntonioBanderas
The Bastards
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Posted - 2008.10.14 10:18:00 -
[1376]
Edited by: AntonioBanderas on 14/10/2008 10:18:27 jesus fuc.king christ, people, why are you even fuc.king trying? THEY DON'T GIVE A __F_U_C_K__ !!! __________________________________________________ I can say ASS!!! And SHIT!!!! \o/
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Vivinc Laloo
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Posted - 2008.10.14 10:19:00 -
[1377]
Edited by: Vivinc Laloo on 14/10/2008 10:19:54 This change and, even more so, this 'explaining' blog is an insult to the players.
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MissileBella
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Posted - 2008.10.14 10:20:00 -
[1378]
Well that'll be the last monthly subscription payment you get from me.
It's like you really don't like money.
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Kyle Broflovski
Caldari Imperium Galactica
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 10:20:00 -
[1379]
Originally by: Shmekla "I must... advance...I must... advance. even if account suspended" Don't you think this is weird?
That's how MMOs are made.
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Lothris Andastar
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 10:20:00 -
[1380]
Originally by: MissileBella Well that'll be the last monthly subscription payment you get from me.
It's like you really don't like money.
Bye.
Noone will miss you
Thanks for not making lag!
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Vek NaVek
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Posted - 2008.10.14 10:21:00 -
[1381]
Originally by: Shmekla "I must... advance...I must... advance. even if account suspended" Don't you think this is weird?
You dont know why the people are angry.
Call a spade a spade, and not treat the customers as IDIOTS and smiley face it
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Alerion
Freelancer Union Unaffiliated
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 10:22:00 -
[1382]
The only mistake CCP is making is in trying to explain why they make this change.
They don't need to explain anything. It was a feature that (by design or mistake, probably the latter) was allowed to be in-game for far too long.
People started abusing it on a grander scale that leads to problems with character farming and such. Feature removed. Shut up and go back to playing and paying.
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MissileBella
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Posted - 2008.10.14 10:22:00 -
[1383]
Originally by: Lothris Andastar Bye.
Noone will miss you
Thanks for not making lag!
Snowflakes.
You might not miss one, but when there's no snow to enjoy you'll give anything to catch one on your tongue again.
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Nackturion
Minmatar Brotherhood of the Phoenix Free Trade Zone.
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Posted - 2008.10.14 10:23:00 -
[1384]
Tbh, i'm in the crowd that always found it a bit odd this was allowed to begin with. Personally, to advance skills, a person should have to pay (even though in general I dislike Eve's skill system) but in the end, you should not get benefits from an MMO unless you pay for it, of any kind (unless it's stated as a free MMO, such as Guild Wars, ofc). It's that simple. The way CCP allowed Ghost Training essentially equated to them giving out free 'play' time, if you take into account that in Eve you dont play to advance your character abilities, as you do in other MMO's.
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Commander Criton
Gallente War is Bliss
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Posted - 2008.10.14 10:25:00 -
[1385]
Hmm... Not a fan of this change and as others have said if it is to improve the database then the other database driven actions shoould also not work on inactive accounts lol the account should be completely inactive..... Also what next Inactive accounts/characters will be deleted after a certain time to free up the database....
P.S Skill queuing needs to be considered.
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Lothris Andastar
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 10:25:00 -
[1386]
Originally by: MissileBella
Originally by: Lothris Andastar Bye.
Noone will miss you
Thanks for not making lag!
Snowflakes.
You might not miss one, but when there's no snow to enjoy you'll give anything to catch one on your tongue again.
Even if a third of eve emoragequits, CCP wont feel a thing as all they need to do is cancel hardware upgrades needed to deal with all you whiners :)
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TwoShoes
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 10:25:00 -
[1387]
Originally by: Admrl Cain
CCP disgusts me on so many levels. Specially this one:
F'ing OWND!
What really ****es me off is back in the day, I highly respected Wrangler. Now he's a Liar and a thief in many ways, just like CCP.
Seems to be an epidemic in Iceland this last couple of weeks seeing as Landsbanki owe the UK tax payers about ú1Bill, maybe CCP and Landsbanki learnt their business skills in the same place.
Or maybe this is just revenge for the UK gov, seizing Icelandic assets in the UK under anit-terror laws.
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Skeltem
Amarr Trident Future Technologies
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Posted - 2008.10.14 10:26:00 -
[1388]
"Ghost Training" for me and most players I know of was a distinguishing feature of EVE. A reason why many players still had an active account on and off. Now you ****ed them off. It sure isn't for no reason at all. Icelandic bunkrupt und such. But maybe you latecomers to economic "wisdom" just shot your own foot.
Time will tell.
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Turismo
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 10:26:00 -
[1389]
Edited by: Turismo on 14/10/2008 10:27:53 CCP,
This 'bug fix' combined with the 60 day GTC cards will reduce the number of players returning after breaks as well as the number of alts. I have a couple of concerns:
1) Are you guys ready for a market crash? I think this may get completely out of control.
Market demand will drop as discontinued alts or retiring mains no longer need equipment. They also owned a lot of gear. People will start dumping items and ships they can no longer fly on active accounts.
If your remaining player base no longer can earn the same isk through mining, trading and industry how will they stay motivated to keep playing? You not only have too much isk in Eve, there is also too much stuff. You need as many accounts as you can get because satifaction for players in Eve depends on growth. You think fleet battles and FW will keep us going?
2) If your player base is struggling to maintain specialized alts, how much interest do you think there will be in any new features you may have planned to keep us hooked? Exploration was skill intensive if you wanted to do it, and FW restricts your ability to move around in Empire. Both features were ideal for alts, but restricitve for main characters.
I hope you re-consider this proposed change. Sadly, I doubt you will. I am sure you are expecting a sudden drop in subscriptions but that it will be revenue negative as players are keeping payments up to date. It is very likely that in a year's time you will be wondering why your player base is still declining.
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Nex Abyssus
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Posted - 2008.10.14 10:26:00 -
[1390]
Originally by: Lothris Andastar
Originally by: MissileBella
Originally by: Lothris Andastar Bye.
Noone will miss you
Thanks for not making lag!
Snowflakes.
You might not miss one, but when there's no snow to enjoy you'll give anything to catch one on your tongue again.
Even if a third of eve emoragequits, CCP wont feel a thing as all they need to do is cancel hardware upgrades needed to deal with all you whiners :)
more veldspa for you then
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Drakir Nossral
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Posted - 2008.10.14 10:26:00 -
[1391]
Originally by: Geanos Edited by: Geanos on 14/10/2008 10:14:48 Well, nice one CCP. A feature that kept me in for a long time and made me return to the game when I was taking a break, has now transformed into a bug.
Quoting from your own player guide: "Skills continue training even if you are logged off or if your account is inactive (in the second scenario you can't change skill training, though).". Here is the page
Account status: suspended. I don't like companies that trick the costumers.
CCP you just lost my accounts !!!!
Fly safe
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Heomos Ricedi
Russian SOBR
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 10:26:00 -
[1392]
Originally by: Piter deVriend
Let's see how CCP people will react at FanFest with all the stunts they pulled the past year. Who brings the tomatoes?
Yeah, watching Fanfest can be mutch more exciting than everybody thought ;)
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Dracorimus
Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2008.10.14 10:27:00 -
[1393]
Well, -1 for me too, I suppose the long awaited lag fix is here after all............
Blatent lies dont sit too well. . ≡v≡ powered |
MissileBella
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 10:27:00 -
[1394]
Originally by: Lothris Andastar
Even if a third of eve emoragequits, CCP wont feel a thing as all they need to do is cancel hardware upgrades needed to deal with all you whiners :)
I don't understand your point. But kudos to your fanboism.
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Piter deVriend
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 10:28:00 -
[1395]
Originally by: TwoShoes
Originally by: Admrl Cain
CCP disgusts me on so many levels. Specially this one:
F'ing OWND!
What really ****es me off is back in the day, I highly respected Wrangler. Now he's a Liar and a thief in many ways, just like CCP.
Seems to be an epidemic in Iceland this last couple of weeks seeing as Landsbanki owe the UK tax payers about ú1Bill, maybe CCP and Landsbanki learnt their business skills in the same place.
Or maybe this is just revenge for the UK gov, seizing Icelandic assets in the UK under anit-terror laws.
Hahaha, Netherlands - Iceland soccermatch. Icelandic humor with a banner showing "We have your money". Appearently, Iceland has jack-shit.
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myrddhyn
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Posted - 2008.10.14 10:28:00 -
[1396]
CCP plz fire the idiot that came up with this idea; short term planning is bad. The guys probably gonna run off with your money and in a year leave the rest of the guys that are really intrested in the game and a good game experience hanging. This feature doesn't really affect me but i still think it stinks. To the people hailing this new 'patch' hope you get a free beer out of this on the fanfest.
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Skogen Gump
Jericho Fraction
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Posted - 2008.10.14 10:28:00 -
[1397]
Originally by: OneSock
Just
One of the many things that attracts me to EVE is the mature playerbase, thanks for re-affirming my faith!
But on a serious note, if you were reading threads here, sure it's clear that a lot of people are unhappy (to put it bluntly) but would you be more willing to concede to 46 pages of people calling you names, or to 46 pages of people pointing out why it's a bad idea, likely to hit CCP in the wallet ?
If CCP have a good reason to enforce this change, that has a noticeable effect on the subscribing players then I support it; but if not - please reconsider it CCP! At least, consider giving the players a reason to maintain subscriptions - letting more then one 'toon train on an account (like most every other MMO!) would be very welcome!
(yeah, I realise I'm being hopelessly optimistic, it seems that the only group that gets answered nowadays are the ones that complain the most)
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NicotineBuzz
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Posted - 2008.10.14 10:29:00 -
[1398]
We are almost at 49 pages... subject to be locked soon. After "Disabling ghost training - the blog edition", prepare yourself for "Disabling ghost training - the podcast edition", because nobody can complain XD Is April in October in Iceland?O.o "Since this has caused a lot of debate we've decided to explain why we are making this change in a new Dev Blog by t0rfifrans:" Sorry but the explanation was?...
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Siona Windweaver
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Posted - 2008.10.14 10:29:00 -
[1399]
Originally by: Torfi Frans Olafsson
There was a way to progress a character in EVE without an active subscription CCP noticed a surge in the trend and decided to fix the leak Players now have to pay a subscription for characters to have them progress We truly hope that the community will understand our actions and continue to enjoy playing EVE as much as we enjoy making it.
Torfi Frans Olafsson
Senior Producer of EVE Online
Funny thing is, you brought this on yourselves. It was clear GTC changes was going to result in massive account cancelling. So massive enough that you even "disabled" a bug.
This stinks, all this makes me think you already planned this when GTC changes were first made.
Originally by: Jinx Barker
I have been saying this for a long time, ever since the "old" guard of the developers left active EVE online roles CCP customer service, CCP customer attunes, and general CCP attitude toward its player base has gone to shit.
So true...
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Fenrill Nerkata
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 10:32:00 -
[1400]
Edited by: Fenrill Nerkata on 14/10/2008 10:32:28
Quote: Ghost Training was an unintended feature
Only one word : Liar.
For those who say proof of stfu, here is my proof :
1- hosted out of CCP server before CCP change it : http://img339.imageshack.us/my.php?image=proofxz3.jpg
2- Quoting original host on CCP's Tutorial :
Quote: Skills continue training even if you are logged off or if your account is inactive (in the second scenario you can't change skill training, though). As a result, it is a good idea to train short skills while you are playing and longer ones when you log off. If you want to switch skills, you can simply do so by starting another skill training. The points gained on the previous skill will not be lost, but you don't benefit from the training until the level is fully completed. The highest level for any skill is Level 5, but some skills also have an advanced version. Some of those advanced skills influence the same area as the basic version, others only a related area.
Source
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midge Mo'yb
Antares Shipyards Vanguard.
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Posted - 2008.10.14 10:32:00 -
[1401]
Originally by: NicotineBuzz We are almost at 49 pages... subject to be locked soon. After "Disabling ghost training - the blog edition", prepare yourself for "Disabling ghost training - the podcast edition", because nobody can complain XD Is April in October in Iceland?O.o "Since this has caused a lot of debate we've decided to explain why we are making this change in a new Dev Blog by t0rfifrans:" Sorry but the explanation was?...
we were at 49 pages, untill ccp started playing **** moderation ;)... whats wrong dont like people showing you how much of a liar you guys are?
balance LOL -----------------------------------------------
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Shoopinou
Gallente Garoun Investment Bank
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Posted - 2008.10.14 10:33:00 -
[1402]
And the RP gain, sell/buy orders aren't shut down with the account ?
Then this decision isn't based so much about equity
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Liranan
M'8'S Frontal Impact
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Posted - 2008.10.14 10:33:00 -
[1403]
You guys are losing track of the real issue here. Iceland is literally bankrupt guys. This is no joke. Iceland is having to beg the most corrupt institution in the world (the IMF/World Bank) for money. While we all see companies go bankrupt and some of you might have lost jobs because of that imagine it on a nation wide scale!
They raised the price of time cards so they were in line with other MMO's. That is understandable and normal. They were allowing players to play for one month for free, that got changed. I have never been for ghost training and have only done it when my subsciptions ran out and couldn't pay that instance.
You guys need to stop accusing CCP of being greedy. CCP might have lost a lot of money when Icelandic banks collapsed, so they might have a hard time ahead of them.
What the real issue is CCP not telling us beforehand and not consulting with the players. The CSM exists for a reason, or maybe not. Another thing is the way they tried to spin this. You guys should be picking a problem with their claims that this is a bug, while they claim it's "A long overdue and much needed change".
Stop the whining about greed. CCP might have hard times ahead of them. Keep complaining about their presentation, that should be the real problem. Farjung is my God
You people need to open your eyes and read threads before you mindlessly spam the New Thread link. |
Kerdrak
3B Legio IX Atlas Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 10:33:00 -
[1404]
SOE bought CCP? ________________________________________
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MMoroz
Beyond Divinity Inc
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 10:34:00 -
[1405]
Find your niche business and build around it - kinda basic rule for business.
Watching your late actions its clear you hired some dumb marketing kids who know shit about business ( they just have papers ). Give me call in 2 months when your income will drop 10-20% ( it will ;) ), cause it is obvious that you need fire your whole marketing department and hire some people with real knowledge.
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Karma
Eve University
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Posted - 2008.10.14 10:35:00 -
[1406]
how about a compromise... let it training continue for a week or two, but not longer.
this will help those people who get problems with recurring payments (account is set to keep running, money is available on the bank, but an error causes the account to be suspended anyway... training-time lost). and most of the advanced level 5 skills take three+ weeks to finish completely.
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Chris Tao
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Posted - 2008.10.14 10:38:00 -
[1407]
I feel like i just watched the new Indiana Jones movie 500 times in a ROW
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Pallidum Treponema
Body Count Inc.
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Posted - 2008.10.14 10:38:00 -
[1408]
Originally by: Lothris Andastar
Even if a third of eve emoragequits, CCP wont feel a thing as all they need to do is cancel hardware upgrades needed to deal with all you whiners :)
That totally made my day. :D
Do you seriously think hardware upgrades is the biggest cost for CCP? Or any gaming company for that matter?
No, I'm willing to bet my remaining GTCs on the fact that, like most companies out there, STAFF is the highest cost. That's right. Developers, GMs, managers, accountants, even the sweet old lady that cleans the office on thursdays.
Let's assume that even a fifth of the accounts in the game are cancelled due to this (or for that matter, the credit crunch that affect people's income all over the globe). This means that CCP's revenue takes a 20% hit. Unless CCP is making a sizable profit, they may end up in the red because of this. This will then result in layoffs. That means developers getting fired. That means GMs losing their jobs.
End result is, we get less out of our money. This affects paying customers as well as non-paying. This means that REAL features that we're waiting for may be delayed or cancelled, because CCP doesn't have as much staff anymore. This means that the TQ upgrades that would eliminate nodecrashes might be found too costly.
This means that we're getting shafted, people, paying customer or not.
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Higgins 5000
Minmatar Republic Military School
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Posted - 2008.10.14 10:38:00 -
[1409]
- 3 accounts
really, what a great time to bring this out with the global economic crisis don't you think? a time when people are already looking for ways to limit what they spend on disposable entertainment.
no more 30 day time cards? screw you ccp, that was a real bunch of bullshit. but hey i still kept subscribed.
no more ghost training? then i refuse to give you any money. not one ****ing cent.
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Commander Criton
Gallente War is Bliss
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Posted - 2008.10.14 10:38:00 -
[1410]
Originally by: Karma how about a compromise... let it training continue for a week or two, but not longer.
this will help those people who get problems with recurring payments (account is set to keep running, money is available on the bank, but an error causes the account to be suspended anyway... training-time lost). and most of the advanced level 5 skills take three+ weeks to finish completely.
Im guess its either let inactive accounts train skills or not proberly would take some extra coding to add a time delay.
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Tobias Lee
UK Corp Mostly Harmless
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Posted - 2008.10.14 10:39:00 -
[1411]
I used to run 2 eve accounts 1 main 1 alt switched 2 chars over to my main after GMs took 2 months to deal with my petiton last xmas, that's right 2 months. Then they tried to tell me i had already received a reply which i clearly hadn't else why would i ask wheres my reply.
I switched to paying with gtc purely out of principle whilst i spent my emorage playing other games my main 5 years account was always active.
Couple of months back i was going to sell my main toon use a new alt set up the 2nd account had to pay 20 pounds despite having 2 eve online cds in boxes ?? then switched that to gtc. I cannot afford the current gtc prices or the subs since i'm currently not working so that alt account that was gonna ghost bs 4 to 5 is gonna be gone i wont bother with that account.
Personally if CCP were straight up from the beginning i wouldnt see a problem I remember them struggling to get players when 5k on the server was a busy day, maybe when the server has this kind of number again CCP might actually obtain some sort of decent customer service.
Few words of advice if your teaching kids or feeding them info they like to have it in small digestable chunks. Adults learn differently and prefer to see the whole bigger picture so maybe quit bullshitting people and just say this is how it is, we lost x amount of money or we need x y z for this etc.
Oh yeah and the vast majority of your player base are adults btw in case you did not notice.
As for Mr Lonestar hes clearly a CCP alt, yes its your game but if all the customers leave you gonna be left playing eve on your personal server with just 1 player yourself :P
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Ethidium Bromide
Amarr PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2008.10.14 10:39:00 -
[1412]
Originally by: Fenrill Nerkata Edited by: Fenrill Nerkata on 14/10/2008 10:32:28
Quote: Ghost Training was an unintended feature
Only one word : Liar.
For those who say proof of stfu, here is my proof :
1- hosted out of CCP server before CCP change it : http://img339.imageshack.us/my.php?image=proofxz3.jpg
2- Quoting original host on CCP's Tutorial :
Quote: Skills continue training even if you are logged off or if your account is inactive (in the second scenario you can't change skill training, though). As a result, it is a good idea to train short skills while you are playing and longer ones when you log off. If you want to switch skills, you can simply do so by starting another skill training. The points gained on the previous skill will not be lost, but you don't benefit from the training until the level is fully completed. The highest level for any skill is Level 5, but some skills also have an advanced version. Some of those advanced skills influence the same area as the basic version, others only a related area.
Source
this has been written by players hence it does not state any of CCP's intended mechanics.
i think the huge problem here is people training up alts to fly caps and supercaps without paying for most of the time needed to skill and then returning with rather mighty alliance pets.
so as it goes for me i'm fine with it, if you have an alt you want to use with caps and supercaps pay for it all the way!
Originally by: George Petsch Nochricht: Dei schwarer StroinlSser trifftn Karli[Baatzis] und ruiniert erm so richtig de Dosn, 1343.7 schhodn, oida.
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asp viper
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Posted - 2008.10.14 10:42:00 -
[1413]
Edited by: asp viper on 14/10/2008 10:43:42
I hope, a majority of CCP customers will teach you a lesson, how to do good work. First you fix real bugs, then you advance the subscription fee, not viceversa. I will be one of them. I will reduce my active accounts. period.
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Laydee
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Posted - 2008.10.14 10:42:00 -
[1414]
Originally by: Higgins 5000 - 3 accounts
no more ghost training? then i refuse to give you any money. not one ****ing cent.
If you were paying money, why did Ghost training effect you anyway ?
Otherwise, you cancelling 3 accounts that aren't subscribed
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Ismir Vedenov
Gallente Avec Laudenum
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Posted - 2008.10.14 10:42:00 -
[1415]
I was going to post something really long about this, but I'll just tell you all a quick story.
I only have one account. Always have. I joined about 6 months ago. I have never once had to ghost-train, but I really enjoyed knowing that when I needed to take a break from EVE and/or as my [RL] wallet's reserves dwindled, I would be able to set a skill to train and come back to a nice present (a juicy level five skill like BS5). That is what set EVE apart from other MMOs in my mind. Whereas with most MMOs, I'd go, "Meh. I'm burnt out. I don't like where I am, and I can't get further right now," with EVE I took solace in the fact I could always just train a really long skill and forget about it for a month or two. I didn't feel like I had to sell my soul (through playtime advancing my character) or give a set amount of my income to play EVE.
It would still take me just as long as anyone else to train skills, but I -- thank goodness -- wouldn't have to pay the ghastly monthly fee while it ticked away. What sense is there, when I'm on vacation, to pay 30 USD for a service I am not using? I am paying to let time pass!
Anyway, I'm not angry, nor am I emoragequitting (though my subscription is not being allowed to renew its 3M sub tomorrow because of CCP's PR blunders here). I completely understand all sides in this argument. I get where CCP is coming from wanting more money, I get where the advocates of CCP's decision are coming from with TANSTAAFL, and I get where those who are against this decision are coming from. I side with the latter, but that doesn't mean I don't see merit in each view. :)
I disagree with CCP's decision for one big reason though, and I think it's logically sound: if someone is ghost-training, they will need to pay a MINIMUM of 14.95 USD for the 30D subscription to change their skills. So even if they're paying 14.95 USD every other month, or even every third month, isn't that more than 0 USD if you remove their reason for subscribing that character/account in the first place?
Thanks for the good times, EVE Community.
-1
Can't wait to see what EVE becomes though! Maybe I'll see you all in-game later.
P.S. Cool down and love one another, won'tcha?
<3<3<3 ~Ismir Vedenov
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Cazzah
Caldari Eve University Ivy League
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Posted - 2008.10.14 10:42:00 -
[1416]
Lies and short notice with no consultation are not appreciated. I am against the proposed changes, and it will hurt Eve a lot.
I encourage others to make known their displeasure and add to the voices of opposition.
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Paladineguru
Gallente DAB G00DFELLAS
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Posted - 2008.10.14 10:45:00 -
[1417]
With a job in the military youve finally gotten down to removing the only incentive that kept me coming back to resubscribe for 5 years. the extra week to a month of sp was usually the incentive for my coming back. now i guess the next time i ask myself the question why should i give eve my money instead of another game , i wont have any answer .
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Sky Marshal
State Protectorate
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Posted - 2008.10.14 10:46:00 -
[1418]
Originally by: Liranan Stop the whining about greed. CCP might have hard times ahead of them. Keep complaining about their presentation, that should be the real problem.
CCP told us few weeks ago that they are not concerned by the financial crisis...
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Big Al
Stoat's Ultimate Carebear Adventure
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Posted - 2008.10.14 10:47:00 -
[1419]
Better start looking for buyers for that fish tank to make your payroll, I hear people don't like lending to Icelandic companies anymore. dumping characters please buy |
gerbiless
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Posted - 2008.10.14 10:48:00 -
[1420]
Edited by: gerbiless on 14/10/2008 10:49:02 This is amongst the most horrible lies i've heard in a long time... rofl.. Pure greed is the answer to why ccp stops the ghost training.. nothing else! I think I will say as one of swedens more backboned persons.. SkSmmes ta me fan CCP! (Shame on you CCP )
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TwoShoes
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Posted - 2008.10.14 10:48:00 -
[1421]
Originally by: Liranan
You guys need to stop accusing CCP of being greedy. CCP might have lost a lot of money when Icelandic banks collapsed, so they might have a hard time ahead of them.
It's not the greed aspect that gets me. It's the fact they are screwing over the casual players for no real reason. It does them no harm. To think that forcing those accounts to maintain an active sub will improve their revenue is sheer folly. More than likely rather than resubscribing when the skill ends, they will only resub when Eve becomes interesting to them again.
I'm sorry but Eve is not the only game out there for many of us who have been in the game some time we may be getting a bit bored and only want to dip in and out from time to time. With this change we have less of a reason to do so.
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Woofsie
Minmatar White Wolves Syndicate THORN Alliance
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Posted - 2008.10.14 10:48:00 -
[1422]
If this had been implemented a year ago I never would have returned to the game.
Bad move CCP. __ This post is wholly representative of the views of both my corp and my alliance.
CCP Inconsistency
Fnord. |
Evil Edna
The Priory
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Posted - 2008.10.14 10:51:00 -
[1423]
Originally by: Fenrill Nerkata Edited by: Fenrill Nerkata on 14/10/2008 10:32:28
Quote: Ghost Training was an unintended feature
Only one word : Liar.
For those who say proof of stfu, here is my proof :
1- hosted out of CCP server before CCP change it : http://img339.imageshack.us/my.php?image=proofxz3.jpg
2- Quoting original host on CCP's Tutorial :
Quote: Skills continue training even if you are logged off or if your account is inactive (in the second scenario you can't change skill training, though). As a result, it is a good idea to train short skills while you are playing and longer ones when you log off. If you want to switch skills, you can simply do so by starting another skill training. The points gained on the previous skill will not be lost, but you don't benefit from the training until the level is fully completed. The highest level for any skill is Level 5, but some skills also have an advanced version. Some of those advanced skills influence the same area as the basic version, others only a related area.
Source
egg avec face
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Kaya Valda
Caldari Neo Spartans
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Posted - 2008.10.14 10:52:00 -
[1424]
I can understand CCPs reasons for doing this both from an economic and fairness point of view. However I can see an area where it will affect all players, and that is wehn legitimate accounts runs out.
The problem at the moment is that you get no prior warning that your account is about to expire, and usually the first I know about it is when I can't log in. Are CCP now saying that I will potentially lose hours of training because I don't keep a close enough eye on when all my accounts expire?
A change needs to be made to rectify this. Either reminders need to be sent out to let people know in advance that their accounts will expire, or a leeway of a couple of days where training is still allowed at the end of the account expiry (so same as now except a much reduced time where it continues).
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Medusa d'Mon
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Posted - 2008.10.14 10:53:00 -
[1425]
Originally by: Lothris Andastar
Originally by: MissileBella
Originally by: Lothris Andastar Bye.
Noone will miss you
Thanks for not making lag!
Snowflakes.
You might not miss one, but when there's no snow to enjoy you'll give anything to catch one on your tongue again.
Even if a third of eve emoragequits, CCP wont feel a thing as all they need to do is cancel hardware upgrades needed to deal with all you whiners :)
but the whiners won't be playing and it's you who won't be getting the hardware upgrade benefits.
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Gaurina
Oberon Incorporated Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2008.10.14 10:55:00 -
[1426]
Maybe this is the ease way of fixing the lag in 0.0 fights?
Too hard to buy new hardware and upgrade the server software so they just get rid of the problem behind the lag: the players.
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Tu Saladin
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Posted - 2008.10.14 10:56:00 -
[1427]
I read the first and last page on the other 'discussion' of this topic; *****, bith, *****. And it looks like it's shaping up the same way here.
People want something for, relatively, nothing, that's just human nature. CCP wants a Pay-To-Play system, that's the nature of a business.
What do I think? Play your characters. (I never really understood why CCP allowed skill advancement for disabled accounts)
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SnoopDizzle
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Posted - 2008.10.14 10:58:00 -
[1428]
They should just say we want to do this because CCP want to make more money PERIOD
They took away the frikkin 90 day time code recentely also and charge pretty much the same for the 60 day meaning roughly a 25 percent price hike for a lot of players.
Do CCP refund us when we are not training a skill...........
There are other changes i have noticed in my time with this game . I honestly believe they support people buying isk with timecodes as it means they make more money. You will notice that any transfer or thing that can be done out of game without CCP making a profit from it is banned.
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UnDeRBaLaNcE
The Dead Parrot Shoppe Inc.
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Posted - 2008.10.14 10:59:00 -
[1429]
Just want to point out; while ccp HQ is in Iceland, they are actually all over the world. Atlanta, GA (USA), Shanghai, China... I believe the servers are in the UK.
I would hardly think that they are affected by the Iceland market, because as most companies do they use all avenues for securing theyÆre assets. Most of the posters here including my self are not financial experts of the global economy, so it would be premature of us to state that they are purely effected. Although the timing is right, who is to say CCP has not banked overseas and have more sound money than in Iceland banks. IcelandÆs population is only 320,000 tops, and I donÆt know what other markets they are in other than fishing and after the US navy closing the base ( Free money to the local economy by military personnel;) I would see why it could be so hard for theyÆre economy at this time when the countries physical and population is so small. That it would be hard to survive. But back to the point, it sounds like all the young kids are posting with the amount of spelling and grammar errors, the freeloaders, sounds like the kids from runescape or whatever that game is called who want it free because they're moms wont pay the second or third account, as to us working folks seem to be ok as we already pay the extra alts.
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Friday Jinx
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Posted - 2008.10.14 10:59:00 -
[1430]
Are you people on drugs? How can you be whining about this change from the company that gives you FREE EXPANSIONS to an MMO?
If CCP feels they need to do this, then let them, you ungrateful babies.
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Mike C
Caldari Perkone
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Posted - 2008.10.14 11:01:00 -
[1431]
Edited by: Mike C on 14/10/2008 11:02:27 Last time CCP threatened to add this, about a year ago, I stopped all my accounts. I will be doing that again.
EDIT: 2 days 8 hours until Minmatar Industrial 5 is done, then bye bye EVE. ________________________________________
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RaTTuS
BIG Libertas Fidelitas
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Posted - 2008.10.14 11:02:00 -
[1432]
Originally by: Mike C Last time CCP threatened to add this, about a year ago, I stopped all my accounts. I will be doing that again.
and you came back -- BIG Lottery, BIG Deal, InEve
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Total Disaster
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Posted - 2008.10.14 11:02:00 -
[1433]
Originally by: Friday Jinx Are you people on drugs? How can you be whining about this change from the company that gives you FREE EXPANSIONS to an MMO?
If CCP feels they need to do this, then let them, you ungrateful babies.
I ♥ you Jinx
and a quick reminder. Nobody in here owns ANY eve character.. it's all property of CCP. They can and will do whatever they want
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Stormaar
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.10.14 11:03:00 -
[1434]
Originally by: Friday Jinx Are you people on drugs? How can you be whining about this change from the company that gives you FREE EXPANSIONS to an MMO?
If CCP feels they need to do this, then let them, you ungrateful babies.
LOL!!! cant stay, sorry )))
i wanna pay for Expansion becouse i wanna very good, tested and balanced product. I dont wanna things maded in garage by 2-3 albanian emigrants.
-2 accs. fly safe
----- Customizable UI / internal API for mods/addons |
Lakut
EmpiresMod
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Posted - 2008.10.14 11:03:00 -
[1435]
Originally by: Mike C Last time CCP threatened to add this, about a year ago, I stopped all my accounts. I will be doing that again.
Obligatory "Can I have your stuff?" question. ----------
You get a wonderful view from the point of no return. |
Kryttos
Hard Corp Carbide and Diamonds Alliance
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Posted - 2008.10.14 11:03:00 -
[1436]
whining will do nothing you guys of course realize. There's that pesky EULA you agree to when you first run Eve, or after a patch.
[email protected] |
Retardat
Caldari Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2008.10.14 11:03:00 -
[1437]
Since this has caused a lot of debate we've decided to explain why we are making this change
thats not an explanation thats just you saying "I don 't care about u stupid players , We just want to take all your money" and this is the truth i hope i don't get banned again for saying the truth
----------
Quote:
I'm not a pirat lol !! I LOVE CAREBEARSS <3<3<3 ☻☻☻☻☻☻☻☻☻☻☻☻☻☻☻☻☻☻& |
NicotineBuzz
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Posted - 2008.10.14 11:03:00 -
[1438]
Originally by: Total Disaster
Originally by: Friday Jinx Are you people on drugs? How can you be whining about this change from the company that gives you FREE EXPANSIONS to an MMO?
If CCP feels they need to do this, then let them, you ungrateful babies.
I ♥ you Jinx
and a quick reminder. Nobody in here owns ANY eve character.. it's all property of CCP. They can and will do whatever they want
Yeah erhm about the free expansion stuff.... well just so happen that most other MMO also do that...XD
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Shokal Nen
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Posted - 2008.10.14 11:03:00 -
[1439]
Originally by: Friday Jinx Are you people on drugs? How can you be whining about this change from the company that gives you FREE EXPANSIONS to an MMO?
If CCP feels they need to do this, then let them, you ungrateful babies.
Oh hey here's some more brilliant marketing ideas for you guys at CCP: - paid expansions - additional servers - start selling game in stores
if you want money at least do it all the way!
i will not be reactivating my accounts now to train long skills on them once in a while like i used to - simply not worth it
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Neliel Oderschvank
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Posted - 2008.10.14 11:04:00 -
[1440]
Edited by: Neliel Oderschvank on 14/10/2008 11:05:02 as I stated on my previous post i think CCP should reconsider this change... for people like me whos in the military and play this game, this is a very neat feature (in CCP's words an unintended bug) yeah right...
due to the fact that we cant play this game daily and chances are not even weekly.
would be nice to have this keep going, why? let me give u an example.
say.. i still got 10days left on my subscription and im now about to run BS V which would take like 25-35 days and inbetween im gonna be deployed or already deployed. taking advantage of the ghost training really pays of. i mean i wouldnt wanna pay for a game that im not playing due to the fact that im working. Sure i still want my character to grow, I dont think this is unfair to anybody as everyone has that option to do so and take advantage of.
their talking about alot of people misusing this feature/bug. but to tell you the truth those people who are using it has either 2 or more accounts that are being paid for...
so again CCP should reconsider
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Mike C
Caldari Perkone
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Posted - 2008.10.14 11:04:00 -
[1441]
Originally by: RaTTuS
Originally by: Mike C Last time CCP threatened to add this, about a year ago, I stopped all my accounts. I will be doing that again.
and you came back
With a trial, and someone said that CCP never in fact added it, and thus I wasted 4 months. ________________________________________
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Todoshi
Caldari Caldari Logistics and Supplies
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Posted - 2008.10.14 11:04:00 -
[1442]
I think the biggest problem is the lack of notice, 2 frickin days....nice going.
its no surprise that ccp devs have been too gutless to reply in the thread since it was posted, all we get is mods changing posts because of forum rules.
well for those that are tracking its -2 for me as well perhaps -3 as i don't know if i can be arsed waiting for marauders 5. * Signature not within the allowed image size of 400 x 120 pixels - CCP Fallout |
Kain Simmons
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Posted - 2008.10.14 11:05:00 -
[1443]
I doubt this will increase your Income ccp. I never ghost trained but i had plans to do when i ever feel the need of a second account. But after this change i know for sure i will not get me one.
Paying for my 1. Account 100% of the year Intended to pay for my 2. Account every 2. Month
So you guys loose subsctiption fees for about 6 months from me. Good work ****ing your customers off.
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Kryttos
Hard Corp Carbide and Diamonds Alliance
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Posted - 2008.10.14 11:06:00 -
[1444]
Unfortunately this thread brings out a major problem with the world today.. Everyone wants instant gratification with little to no effort.
God how far we have fallen ><
[email protected] |
Mike C
Caldari Perkone
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Posted - 2008.10.14 11:06:00 -
[1445]
Edited by: Mike C on 14/10/2008 11:08:49 I'm just glad I got most of my Capital skills to 5 before this. But now I need to actively train Cap Ships to 5 -_-
EDIT: Would have to. ________________________________________
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Kryttos
Hard Corp Carbide and Diamonds Alliance
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Posted - 2008.10.14 11:07:00 -
[1446]
oh and to the ragequitters i say... Good riddance. WoW awaits =p
[email protected] |
Viral Effect
Caldari Viral Holding V.I.R.A.L.
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Posted - 2008.10.14 11:07:00 -
[1447]
It is quite obvious from reading the replies in this thread that this decision is about as popular as a fart in a space suit.
If you read the EULA you will notice that we the account holder can terminate our subscriptions without notice. I can see that thousands of subscriptions will be cancelled in due course. Perhaps CCP will see the light.
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Face deBouc
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Posted - 2008.10.14 11:08:00 -
[1448]
Not constructive. Naviagtor
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JuGGeR
Phantom Squad Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2008.10.14 11:09:00 -
[1449]
if the time spand is 5 years to fix a bug , then can we plz have a fix to the other stuff thats laggin , and get a when it was started .. so my 20+ accounts can get back @ that time , coz this is pure bs really ..
with all the games thats not doing so well , why try to make eve 1 of em also !? Phantomsquad |
Stormaar
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.10.14 11:09:00 -
[1450]
Originally by: Face deBouc Not constructive. Naviagtor
Go play hello kitty online for free stuff ----- Customizable UI / internal API for mods/addons |
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dr00l
Minmatar The Movement
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Posted - 2008.10.14 11:10:00 -
[1451]
As my last post stated, you will probably (actually, remove "probably"?) lose money and playerbase due to this rather than getting them up. How hard is it to realize, really?
I like the game and have seldom used the "Ghost Training" FEATURE and only when I took breaks from the game due to stuff in real life. And guess what, that FEATURE made me COME BACK.
I currently have 4 accounts, I still like this game, but I'm going to stop subscription for 2 of the accounts due to your latest two fiascos, the removal of 30 and 90-days GTC's and now this. Please rethink.
-2 Accounts.
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Helene Mythrana
Gallente Tetragrammaton Research
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Posted - 2008.10.14 11:10:00 -
[1452]
Got this today via eMail:
*We are sending you this email because you have purchased EVE time codes from us in the past. Unsubscribe information is at the bottom of this email if you wish to receive no emails from us except for when you make purchases.
With the global economic problems we have seen a rise in people trying to spend as little as possible. If you are in need of more ISK in the game this is an opportunity for you to help out your fellow player at the same time being able to purchase ISK through the official EVE gametime codes exchange for ISK.
We did a video on this feature when it was first released. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g6IR8IYUVyA The video explains how to exchange your gametime for ISK the officially supported way.
The gametime codes for ISK exchange is an excellent way for those who do not have extra funds to play the game to work for their subscription from within the game. For those who have extra funds and not enough time to place it's an excellent way to get ISK without the fear of being banned.
So if you need to know how to trade your ISK for gametime check out the YouTube video. If you need ISK and want to help out your fellow players you can find 60 day ETC at our store: <Link to shatteredcrystal store>
Thank you for being a customer. Your business is appreciated.
Marcus Eikenberry www.ShatteredCrystal.com -------------------------------------------------------------- Well, it think that even the GTC traders are feeling the sting of CCP's decision to cut away the 30/90d GTC and in light of those recent events now deciding to get rid of a 'bug' that so blatantly obvious is just another try at getting higher revenues from the paying player base i think this is very,very bad timing.
Whatever the reasons are for this change, an honest, upfront aproach saying 'Hey guys, we like the game as much as you do but to keep up with our revenues and spendings for new server hardware and hamsters we need more money, we can't increase the cost for your subscription plan or for GTCs because then we'd be more expensive than other comparable mmorpgs BUT we can tweak around with the parameters that increase our gains without too much pain on your side, so cheers, ty for still being our customer' would be still way better than that what your poor dev guy was forced to post in teh news (my sympathies, dude, sometimes there are just tasks that are not meant to be carried out to everyone's satisfaction )
In a series of fails, in a series of bad decisions, in a series of misjudgement THIS has the potential to turn into the REAL mother of all fails
Anything worth fighting for is worth fighting dirty for. |
Hixxy
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Posted - 2008.10.14 11:11:00 -
[1453]
Originally by: Lifewringer You FAIL CCP. I will not forgive you UNLESS you take away capped training on the same account away. If I have 3 chars on that account I want to be able to train them all at once. Otherwise you are UNFORGIVEN.
-1 account
Have fun playing CCP (it will be mostly your toons around)
i'd settle for 2 and it would keep a lot of the people here happy not to mention the extra 20 ccp would make by some people moving chars from other accounts.
i get bored doing the same stuff all the time and can't justify having 2-3 subscruptions especially when i don't have much RL time to play hence why ghost training is such a big FEATURE of EVE.
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Kayoshu
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Posted - 2008.10.14 11:11:00 -
[1454]
Originally by: Todoshi I think the biggest problem is the lack of notice, 2 frickin days....nice going.
Exactly
When a company begin to have such communication problem, it's time to go fly elsewhere
I only have one account, and have never used ghost training, but i completly disagree with the method used to announce this change
Subscription canceled, time to try another game
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Total Disaster
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Posted - 2008.10.14 11:13:00 -
[1455]
anyone keeping track?
how many left? where did they life? are there nice moons?
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Asuri Kinnes
Caldari Eve University Ivy League
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Posted - 2008.10.14 11:13:00 -
[1456]
I LOVE how ccp in their own player guide said one of the selling points of the game was the ability to "train while inactive or expired", but NOW its a game destroying bug...
Look, do NOT insult my intelligence by saying "Ghost Training was an unintended feature where unpaid accounts of EVE Online were able to continue training skills. While this allowed players to run multiple characters on a shoestring budget, in all effect, this was a bug."
Thats actually a CROCK! You've got it in your player guide, and its been in the game for five years! Are you SERIOUS?
I know games change over time, but really - your telling me its raining when its actually something quite different...
AK Honor is that which you do when no one else is looking.
Ethics, Honor and Respect. Without the first two, you can't buy the last one...
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Ichinomiya Chiaki
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Posted - 2008.10.14 11:14:00 -
[1457]
Originally by: Kryttos oh and to the ragequitters i say... Good riddance. WoW awaits =p
Yeah!! wraith of rich king is COMING SOON!!
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Suga H
Gallente Federal Navy Academy
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Posted - 2008.10.14 11:14:00 -
[1458]
I don't understand the "getting stuff for free" argument, or the "lag" argument for this. First off, even if you're ghosting, you still have to pay to change skills, and to use the skill that you waited so patiently for. Second off, people not logged into the game aren't going to lag the game. It seems that most people that are "emo-rage quitting" in here are cancelling their alt accounts, and probably not their main. Which means just as many people in space as there were before. Though this will majorly deter anyone that was currently on a break to come back. "instant gratification" No one's really asking for that. And they'd be stupid if they were. Even when ghosting, you still have to wait the time. Now CCP is making us pay to wait.
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Emily Spankratchet
Minmatar Pragmatics
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Posted - 2008.10.14 11:15:00 -
[1459]
Ho hum. I was about to let a my accounts lapse on the 17th, when their current payment period ends. Not enough time or money at the moment.
I'm not saying "Wah! I hate you! I'll never be back!" But this change does make it slightly less likely that I will return when I have the money and time. I don't blame CCP for making the change, but the unintended consequence has got to be that people who are letting accounts lapse will be less likely to be sucked back into the game in the future.
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Mitsuho
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Posted - 2008.10.14 11:15:00 -
[1460]
As ppl tell in army: 'De-escalation zone active presence'
I don't wish spend 3x yearly fee if I can get fun with 1x :) MBA make ppl mad :)
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Natsuno Mirage
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Posted - 2008.10.14 11:15:00 -
[1461]
I PLAYED and PAID for YOUR features! For being able to train on inactive accounts. You now call it a BUG?!?! WTF?!?!! I WANT MY MONEY BACK!
Account managers were always bunch of ****ing idiots. Greedy ****ing waaaahm people. Only one thing gets me blood boiling like this, IDIOTS!
emh, whatever happened to this world. The older I'm the colder this shit is. I like your game, but I don't like you.
I was about to go and buy a pack of GTCs for resale during this DT...to be able to afford some capital bpos, capital skills, and to possibly have them trainned on an inactive account. Why? Because I got nothing else to do with that acc. until it's trained. Because that is how I roll Because they take so long I can't train anything else and thus DO ANYTHING ELSE.
Whatever happened to EVE :(((((((((((
Maybe I should go and get a girlfriend in RL.. I always thought that paying for girls is waste of money... but after this, I stopped thinking that.
You failed once in my eyes... it doesn't matter how many time fail again.. cos i care no more.
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Cergorach
Amarr The Helix Foundation
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Posted - 2008.10.14 11:16:00 -
[1462]
I'm not displeased with the end of ghost training, even though I've used it in the past. It makes for a much more even playing field in EVE, I expect that characters (and skills) will become more valuable because of this change, something I feel is a good thing.
People who are complaining about this change should have seen it coming when they stopped selling 30 day GTCs, the 30 day GTC was the tool of the ghost trainer.
I'm curious if CCP will also do something about the accumulation of Research Points on inactive accounts. The next step after that would be the suspension of buy/sell orders on inactive accounts...
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Velda Chulai
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Posted - 2008.10.14 11:16:00 -
[1463]
Originally by: Friday Jinx Are you people on drugs? How can you be whining about this change from the company that gives you FREE EXPANSIONS to an MMO?
If CCP feels they need to do this, then let them, you ungrateful babies.
How long before the free expansions which subsidize your satisfaction are no longer worth the cost of reduced functionality? How long before the dwindling integrity, whcih CCP now has an established pattern of, convinces you that you're not getting your fair enjoyment of the game?
Ultimately that's what this fiasco boils down to: We're of the position that this is abrupt and unfair. Certainly CCP is welcome to make decisions about how the game functions, but the decision itself is unwelcome.
Many accounts are paid for through relatively expensive subscription fees (if paid via time code - buying GTCs for isk is still a real time code sold) for our mains and/or alts. Many of these alts use an insignificant amount of bandwidth and, by design, will continue to use up an entry in that expansive database regardless of whether it's logged in/active or not. Virtually nothing is saved/gained by this move.
If you can be bought out so easily, enjoy your free expansions.
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Fennicus
Amarr Shoot To Thrill
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Posted - 2008.10.14 11:17:00 -
[1464]
Originally by: Emily Spankratchet Ho hum. I was about to let a my accounts lapse on the 17th, when their current payment period ends. Not enough time or money at the moment.
I'm not saying "Wah! I hate you! I'll never be back!" But this change does make it slightly less likely that I will return when I have the money and time. I don't blame CCP for making the change, but the unintended consequence has got to be that people who are letting accounts lapse will be less likely to be sucked back into the game in the future.
This is the first sensible, non-Emo point about why this could be a bad idea that I've seen in this thread. Kudos to you.
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Face deBouc
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Posted - 2008.10.14 11:17:00 -
[1465]
PLEASE again some effort and we can reach 50 pages about "nothing" for say "nothing"
Remember i take your STUFF and your ISK
Thanks for this game CCP
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Neliel Oderschvank
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Posted - 2008.10.14 11:19:00 -
[1466]
Edited by: Neliel Oderschvank on 14/10/2008 11:19:56 Oh yeah and another thing... I think CCP will just encourage people to do businesses with ISK Sellers, why? Because now some of you might just rather buy some ISK for a cheaper price and get some TimeCodes(ISK) for playtime to keep your character training for cheaper price... and Hell CCP might even be supporting ISK Sellers (atleast some of them) as its also a business money making.
Who says CCP cant even have an unknown ISK Selling website out there and know about? No one as we cant confirm it either CCP just ban you when caught cuz you just didnt buy from them, lol...
but you get the general idea.
this few fix from 90day GTC to 60day GTC for the price of the old 90 (ripping you 30days) and now this....
it all makes sense that CCP is desperate and in need of more Ca$h!!!
i think imma keep -1 account inactive.. as this will be bit expensive
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Butzewutze
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Posted - 2008.10.14 11:20:00 -
[1467]
Edited by: Butzewutze on 14/10/2008 11:22:50 Edited by: Butzewutze on 14/10/2008 11:19:50
Quote: Ghost Training was an unintended feature where unpaid accounts of EVE Online were able to continue training skills.
BUG Eh? BULLSHIT!
proof
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Taz Devlin
Minmatar The Collective Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2008.10.14 11:20:00 -
[1468]
An indescribably stupid move to be quite honest
Seriously... fire your marketing department CCP. Couple this with the GTC changes and you just ****ed over alot of happy customers.
And I used to be a fanboi
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Midas Man
Caldari Dzark Asylum
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Posted - 2008.10.14 11:20:00 -
[1469]
Due to the large Thread here CCP are now going to Nerf posting....
From now on Dev blogs are "Read Only" no replies as this king of thread size cause undue stress on the hamster run Servers and also stress's the DataBase. All characters will be limited to opening 1 new thread per month and replying to 3. Anyone ignoring this rule will be banned.
We are also introducing a new feature where you can use a GTC to wipe a ban.
We apologies for the inconvieniance you can still tell us your view by opening a petition..
From 15/10/2008 we will be reducing you Game Time by 3 day for each petition raised to cover the wages of the GM's who will anwser "Tough Luck" or "Our Logs show nothing"
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Suga H
Gallente Federal Navy Academy
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Posted - 2008.10.14 11:21:00 -
[1470]
And if it's seriously because of a financial crisis in Iceland.. be honest with your playerbase CCP. Be honest, upfront, and patient. Don't go taking away a "feature" from the beginning of the game, and a major selling point. Don't insult the players by suddenly calling it a bug. (And would the other players quit saying it's cheating, because if you've read the player guide, it's right there).
If you need money, tell the playerbase that. Bring up ideas. EvE has always been a game that was built up by the players, so let them help decide. There are plenty of ways to bring in more revenue. Gradually increase the costs, add in special content for an additional cost (this can kill games though), offer other services.. whatever. But give it some time (more than two days), and discuss it with the playerbase.
Don't just go "We're taking out a game unbalancing bug, in two days, that will directly affect your wallet."
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Col Carter
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Posted - 2008.10.14 11:21:00 -
[1471]
Originally by: Liranan You guys are losing track of the real issue here. Iceland is literally bankrupt guys. This is no joke. Iceland is having to beg the most corrupt institution in the world (the IMF/World Bank) for money. While we all see companies go bankrupt and some of you might have lost jobs because of that imagine it on a nation wide scale!
Iceland is getting a lot of assistance, financial and otherwise from a variety of both external government, bank and institution sources. While it will be winging it for a few weeks, the first signs are visible on consumer indexes already that recovery will push through. A big reason is the human population mindset, which soldiers on as opposed to running off in panic mode. Something many other countries could learn a thing or two from, tbh. Icelandic corporations can now fall back on to a number of frameworks and programs to mitigate circumstances, cover credit gaps, as well as a good number of other options (ranging from payroll migration to foreign currency, stock consolidation plans, the list goes on).
Originally by: Liranan They raised the price of time cards so they were in line with other MMO's. That is understandable and normal. They were allowing players to play for one month for free, that got changed. I have never been for ghost training and have only done it when my subsciptions ran out and couldn't pay that instance.
Yet on a marketing level that is not the smartest thing to do, while it does meet the argument to tap into a broader market through recognition factors, it does nibble parts off the service which are its unique and supporting selling points. It's a matter of balancing the potential of larger customer markets with the realities of customer retention, in a way it's the age old battle of short term marketing versus long term marketing (where what is perceived and presented as long term ends up being the short term view). the GTC changes are significant in this, very significant. More then most people are willing to admit. But even more significant then this is the resulting chain of statistics coming from this change, even while influenced by uncertainty for other game changes.
Originally by: Liranan You guys need to stop accusing CCP of being greedy. CCP might have lost a lot of money when Icelandic banks collapsed, so they might have a hard time ahead of them.
What the real issue is CCP not telling us beforehand and not consulting with the players. The CSM exists for a reason, or maybe not. Another thing is the way they tried to spin this. You guys should be picking a problem with their claims that this is a bug, while they claim it's "A long overdue and much needed change".
Stop the whining about greed. CCP might have hard times ahead of them. Keep complaining about their presentation, that should be the real problem.
This is where marketing and sales comes in, and ultimately all this boils down to economics. Fundamental basis of economics is trust, not nice but unfortunately true. As such it isn't about facts or figures, but about expectations, very similar to what you can see in real life with the current first phases of the credit crunch.
In a nutshell, when you have a feature evolution or degradation like this, in marketing you make sure you balance the reception of changes. You are clear, you announce things allowing for adjusting, and you mitigate the worst by pairing it with something you give or enhance. Marketing one on one. Manner and form, stick and candy. Smart marketeers would have alloted time for introduction, and paired it with say something like a skill queue or promo options for customer retention.
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IR Scoutar
Caldari State War Academy
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Posted - 2008.10.14 11:23:00 -
[1472]
Edited by: IR Scoutar on 14/10/2008 11:38:09 timeline :
- CCP Decides to adjust GTC's "to be more inline with other MMO's"
- eve forums explode a little
- accounts get put on hiatus after their playtime runs out due to high gtc vs isk prices / regular price(no cc/debit card meaning less control )
- Months later financial crisis hits the world
- CCP states they are not affected
- some time later out of the blue an newly hired employee posts a very short information to server/website news stating that a "long overdue change" was about to happen
- eve forums explode
- well worded panic blog by senior ccp employee is written unfortunatly that dev didnt know anything about the actual topic and in effect lies to the customers
- eve forums explode
i see a trend
p.s. Mr. Hilmar Veigar Petursson here are a few ideas
Don't let new/unknown ccp employees anounce deep gamechanging things .. thats just not smart Fire your public relations team (not the poor comunity people who probably didnt know this was comming ... poor wrangler ) If your "Lead Economist" knew about this and didnt say anything... FIRE HIM ... hes useless Have a round table to discuss things like this with a few more people , who knows maby even the CSM . You might be able to predict your customers reaction to particular changes hope that helps you a little
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Hitman 001
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Posted - 2008.10.14 11:23:00 -
[1473]
this is just BS, yea it is a world crysis, and i can barely keep my founds together, but guess what , with the help of this feature i can keep my alts on. if you remove it i cant, so basicly gonna cancel 2 accoutns or maybe gonna get ****ed to bad and cancell all, and gonna start WOW or something. you wanna get rid of bugs? get my overviev fixed so it doesent bounce all around my monitor when i jump at the gate, or undock from the station, and get mixed with my fleet , drones window. the game is full of bugs, wich i never complained, and still played it.
im paying for this game, and i do ghoust skilling, but i get back to the game, cos i cant w8 for a long term skil to finish. dont know how it is exiting to see a 30 days skill training go like this "oh a nother 29 days, .... oh a notehr 28 days"
BTW if there is a pettion site on the forum, to sign for this im signing it
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xOmGx
Gallente Warriors tribe Red Alliance
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Posted - 2008.10.14 11:27:00 -
[1474]
Originally by: Friday Jinx Are you people on drugs? How can you be whining about this change from the company that gives you FREE EXPANSIONS to an MMO?
If CCP feels they need to do this, then let them, you ungrateful babies.
Lineage 2 - Free expansions No Pain - No Gain |
Last Flower
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Posted - 2008.10.14 11:27:00 -
[1475]
short phrase:
"Can anyone cyno for me plz?"
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Keiretsu Destroyer
Amarr Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2008.10.14 11:28:00 -
[1476]
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=896705&page=1
guess you didn't see this coming. the guy is selling 60 day gtc for 1 BIL!!!
Quote: yes i know, i do this becouse CCP news of canceling ghost training acounts without warning, many people now want to buy ETC and there is no ETC¦s enought to evrybody... have you notice the forum full of WTB orders... itß a mater of time until ETC reach 1 billion. so sorry but i¦ll keep my price at one billion
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ceveres
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Posted - 2008.10.14 11:29:00 -
[1477]
Everyone should cancel..not because they changed it but because they lied rite to your /our faces
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Karma
Eve University
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Posted - 2008.10.14 11:30:00 -
[1478]
Originally by: Friday Jinx Are you people on drugs? How can you be whining about this change from the company that gives you FREE EXPANSIONS to an MMO?
If CCP feels they need to do this, then let them, you ungrateful babies.
free expansions? we'll see. everything can change.
as CCP has demonstrated quite adequately today.
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Horny Scientist
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Posted - 2008.10.14 11:30:00 -
[1479]
Running tally:
Account closure threats: 945 Actual accounts that will be closed: 200 Closed account holders who tries WoW and comes back to Eve after a month: 180 Extra accounts opened by Fanfest goers: 500 Remaining subscribers: 50000+
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Kyle Broflovski
Caldari Imperium Galactica
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Posted - 2008.10.14 11:31:00 -
[1480]
Originally by: Friday Jinx Are you people on drugs? How can you be whining about this change from the company that gives you FREE EXPANSIONS to an MMO?
IMHO that is going to change soon "to be more inline with other MMO's".
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Koric Blaine
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Posted - 2008.10.14 11:31:00 -
[1481]
Not enough time (or the will) to read 48 pages of comments, but I hope someone is paid to.
In any case, I don't care if ghost training disappears so long as a training queue is implemented. In the past, ghost training has been cited as one of the reasons for no queue.
Give me a queue, and an API to manage it, and my accounts will be happy.
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Terio Oni
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Posted - 2008.10.14 11:32:00 -
[1482]
tnx CCP...
you just lose 3 accounts...
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Siona Windweaver
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Posted - 2008.10.14 11:33:00 -
[1483]
Originally by: Koric Blaine Not enough time (or the will) to read 48 pages of comments, but I hope someone is paid to.
In any case, I don't care if ghost training disappears so long as a training queue is implemented. In the past, ghost training has been cited as one of the reasons for no queue.
Give me a queue, and an API to manage it, and my accounts will be happy.
I agree.
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Face deBouc
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Posted - 2008.10.14 11:35:00 -
[1484]
Oh No My "funky" ghost alt, Now i must pay like other
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ZaKma
Body Count Inc.
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Posted - 2008.10.14 11:37:00 -
[1485]
Let's see if you listen to your customers CCP. I think most people have made the point pretty damned clear here. Our input used to be valued and appreciated. I think this is no longer the case. Prove me wrong.
✖ Arachnophobia ✖ |
FalconHawk
Amarr Shadow Rebellion
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Posted - 2008.10.14 11:38:00 -
[1486]
Edited by: FalconHawk on 14/10/2008 11:39:03 to be honest i don¦t realy care for ghost training to be shafted, never used it anyway, but i just realy hate how CCP has become a bunch of lying bastards. No prob when u change something for the greater good of the game, when there is just a reason. But this time(and it happens more and more) you simply cancel one of the features that u even quote in your own guide and declare it a "bug" ....
well when will be offline skill training declared a bug? ffs get your facts straight BEFORE you annouce major changes, with this kind of actions you just loose the trust of your long-time customer base.
every 2 months the playerbase asks for more communication until they cry out that loud that major game sites even hear it, then ccp gives out blogs and dev posts for a month and then stop to communicate again ... i so miss the old times with devs chatting at the forum, explaining stuff etc, now there is just a desert, filled with nothing more than a nerf from time to time and shafted featuers.
When i have started to play eve 3-4 years ago i thought it¦s great to play the game, producers that actualy care, now i just login so i can talk to friends and when they leave the game cause of the bullshit you do lately ...well then there is nothing left from the game i have started to play that long time ago.
but seems that noone is listening to that kind of stuff anyway, maybe just one or two trolls
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Mukiri
Minmatar Republic Military School
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Posted - 2008.10.14 11:38:00 -
[1487]
I do not see the reason for all the whining here. CCP is saying if the account is not active it cannot train, big deal. I mean if you turned off the account then what does it matter. CCP currently give more for free to the players than ANY company out there and yet you are complaining becuase you cannot train a character on a dead account?
I think this is a good move for CCP. It means that they keep their revenue stream active when a player wants and account to be viable. It also means that players are not getting for FREE the same thing others get by having to pay.
As for the idea that CCP might move to pay for expansions, THAT would hurt the game a great deal. Right now one of the BIGGEST selling points for CCP to me as a company is the free expansion system. The Ghost training however is a none issue just and excuse for whiners.
Now continue your whining and please pass the cheese.
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Pittsburgh2989
Dark Skullz Empire Intrepid Crossing
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Posted - 2008.10.14 11:39:00 -
[1488]
Yup...I just had started an alt, unless he pays for GTC's by the time power of two runs out...donezo...
Way to suck at life CCP - that was a huge selling point of this game. Like was mentioned earlier, how can you just remove ghost training but not the rest of the s*** people get while inactive (market orders? share payouts?)....EPIC FAIL
--------------------------------------------- -In charge of the weekly "Royal Lottery" -I see fail everywhere, and it's like they don't even know they're failing |
Mjolnirsmith
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Posted - 2008.10.14 11:39:00 -
[1489]
This news is terrible
I have a main, paid account (6 months at a time). In addition, this particular character is an alt, who 'ghost trained' cruisers V but besides that did everything on paid, gtc time. At the time, ghost training was an enticing feature. It made me reorganize the order in which I train skills so that I could set the long skill to train just as the previous gtc expired. Especially with GTC at 60 days now ghost training doesn't come up that much anyways, and was a way of doing an experiment on making a certain kind of character without the massive initial investment (i.e. you could spread it out a little).
When the last power of two offer came about I accepted it to make a third character, with a completely different kind of specialization.
So you can't label me as a non-paying or barely-paying customer. This complaint is coming from someone who already pays CCP about 3x the monthly fee.
NOw recently, just for the hell of it, I rolled a pirate character. I was going to invest at least 2 GTC to see if this interested me, after carefully plotting some dark training to make the investment last as much as possible.
I think the dark training nerf discourages this kind of experimentation. Dark training is a way of dipping your toe in the pool before you dive in. The thing is, a 'dark trained' character is hard to forget about... in the back of one's mind a thought is like "This toon is getting smarter at lasers, on free time as of last sunday! I better be there for him when that skillbook completes". In short you get players who can experiment, who feel ever-so-slightly like they got a nice occasional free perk, yet they eventually come around and add more gtc to those alts. With this nerf, instead of occasional GTC on some alt's in the eve universe as an extra source of revenue to supplement the regular and active player base, you just have revenue from the highly regular subscriptions only.
I suspect this will make ccp LOSE money in the long run.
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Braaage
Ministry of Craft
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Posted - 2008.10.14 11:40:00 -
[1490]
Originally by: ZaKma Let's see if you listen to your customers CCP. I think most people have made the point pretty damned clear here. Our input used to be valued and appreciated. I think this is no longer the case. Prove me wrong.
Unfortunately I think this is one of those decisions that they wont listen to us on. All this negative err feedback is caused by the way it was announced, calling something a bug and then have it documented in their own documents as a feature is just .... shoot foot time.
I can imagine all CCP bigwigs sat in a room thinking HTF are we gonna get out of this one --
POSs, Outposts, Exploration, Mining, Invention, Boosters, EA EVE Database, Character Generator & more |
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dorannl
Gallente Mystery Inc
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Posted - 2008.10.14 11:43:00 -
[1491]
I really dont onderstand this move.
Ghost training is used mostly for alts and people who dont have time or money to play eve. Less people will have alts now. And people have less reason to come back to the game.
Isnt it just better to make a 3 month timecard or something.
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Todoshi
Caldari Caldari Logistics and Supplies
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Posted - 2008.10.14 11:43:00 -
[1492]
you'd think perhaps with 2913 posts (or 2914 with this one) spread accross 2 threads and a total of 98 pages so far, in less than a full day...that maybe they'd ****ed alot of people of and perhaps reconsider or atleast give people a little more time before implementing it.
of course ccp don't give a rats ass about the player base thats clear to see now....
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Siigari Kitawa
Gallente The Aduro Protocol
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Posted - 2008.10.14 11:44:00 -
[1493]
Here is my problem with this whole thing.
Fundamentally speaking, every company wants money. That's a "duh". Now CCP, look at it this way (blunt for both sides):
People set long skills because they have an account that they want to train on for a period of time without paying. Whether it be the last day they set a 60 day skill or what have you, they're putting down a way of getting something for essentially nothing.
But at what cost? They can have their character train, but they cannot manipulate or use their character ingame in any way. So essentially, even though they get skillpoints, they do not get isk or any way to further themselves in the game other than skilltraining.
SO
Let's look at CCP's side of this: Apparently they think that they can get the money for the accounts RIGHT NOW. Well, you run into this wall.
Not everyone can simultaneously afford how many accounts they have. Some people have up to 10 accounts I am willing to bet, and I am also willing to bet they pay with their credit card instead of GTCs. So, you have a person shelling out over $150 a month just to play a game.
BUT
They're not always going to keep all those accounts active at once, perhaps. But they will reactivate them as they need them.
CCP, the problem you have created may come back to bite you in the butt. Simply speaking, not realizing that you are receiving continued revenue for people who set their characters to afk train while disabled means that THEY WANT TO COME BACK. They'll pay you for the account again.
Other than CCP wanting more money, I see no other reason for this. The only issue about CCP wanting more money is this will hurt them in the interim.
I'm sure we are going to see a lower subscription count for a month or two, then they will surge back up to just below normal rates. But I honestly can't see an increase in revenue coming from this change.
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Naruto Hunter
Darwin With Attitude Systematic-Chaos
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Posted - 2008.10.14 11:44:00 -
[1494]
Originally by: Mjolnirsmith
t this will make ccp LOSE money in the long run.
Apparently CCP isnt interested in the long run. Maybe its time just to keep milking the cash cow until it dies, the game has been around for 5 years, it is bound to start declining and with most of CCP's efforts directed into their new MMO, they are probably trying to get their hands on as much as they can
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Abrazzar
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 11:45:00 -
[1495]
Heh.
Considering that most of the people complaining have more than one account the amount of people raging is probably less than 1/5th of the characters posting here.
Speak about a vocal minority.
-------- Ideas for: Mining
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SFX Bladerunner
Naval Protection Corp
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Posted - 2008.10.14 11:45:00 -
[1496]
I have read the first 5 pages and last 5 pages of this thread.
Though I have to admit I personally did use ghost training to train up for minmatar battleship 5 while I was away on summer vacation, I do not feel strongly against CCP removing this feature from the game. Ofcourse I agree with most of you guys for stating that CCP is being hypocrit about calling it a bug when it has been listed in the FEATURES page for years now. CCP what's up with that man?
Personally though, I have one thing to say to all the people flaming in this thread about how they are going to quit eve blahdieblah: Arguing over the internet is like competing in the special olympics: Even if you win, you are still ******ed.
That being said, I welcome all you people with 2+ accounts to get the hell out of my game ^^ Moar isk for me, really. I have ALWAYS just had ONE account, and even only used ONE character on said account.
From a marketing/business point of view.. it is true that CCP seems to be 'reshaping' EVE Online as a business with the GTC thing and ofcourse now this. (yes as someone mentioned, we could have and DID see this coming).
Personally I don't use GTC's, I pay for eve by bank transfer (which is cheaper than GTCs for cash/time btw) so the GTC change didn't really affect me at all. (I do from time to time buy gtcs and sell em for isk to make my wallet go plop though).
Anyway all in all, I would have to say, as a lot of people have said before me...
To all the quitters,
CAN I HAS YOUR STUFF AND ISKZ PLZ? kthxbai.
YOU shall NOT be missed. now go play WoW or w/e.
To CCP and the DEVs, I would like to point out not to take too much head to this thread, as is with all things, the people that reply to threads like these are people with personal interrest in it and don't like it. It is always the whiners and people that disagree that comment on patches and fixed and that sort of things. And since these players are the ones CCP is actually trying to weed out, who cares what they say. The main consensus reached between posters on this thread does not in any way represent the EVE Community as a whole, and ghost training is definatelly not one of the 'biggest sellers' for EVE Online as much people in here claim it is. I personally started playing eve oblivious to this feature/bug and only found out about it after almost a year of playtime. And I do believe there are much more people out there like me.
Granted this 'fix' does make EVE Online a little bit less attractive to some people, that's fair enough. It will always still beat the crap out of other MMO's like WoW that have way bigger fundamental issues. (in wow's case for instance, the immaturity of the playerbase).
my 2 cents... anyway. __________________________________________________
History is much like an endless waltz, the three beats of war, peace and revolution continue on forever.. |
Lord Fitz
Project Amargosa
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 11:45:00 -
[1497]
Unfortunately I can only see this having the opposite effect and costing CCP money. I lost count of how many people I know who reactivated because they had a skill finish that allowed them to do something they couldn't do before they stopped playing. Without this incentive I see CCP denied years worth of subscriptions to save a month. Why come back and start playing if all you can do upon your return is exactly what you could do before ?
And skills, believe it or not, don't effect other players in the slightest. If you're talking about inactive accounts producing things, start talking about passive RP, given they actually effect the economy. I think the nerf bat landed on the wrong thing here.
I wonder how many of the people that stopped their accounts recently were because of the increased GTC prices or their currency dropping ? I don't imagine any stopping of their skills will cause them to reactivate, but it will more than likely cause them to not ever think about reactivating again.
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Porto Exul
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Posted - 2008.10.14 11:46:00 -
[1498]
Next step will be SP shop: 1 mil SP = 100USD, even for an unsubscribed char. Why not ?
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Face deBouc
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 11:46:00 -
[1499]
"Ohhh!!! What!! I cant train an alt without pay?"
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Skogen Gump
Jericho Fraction
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Posted - 2008.10.14 11:47:00 -
[1500]
I wonder, would CCP be willing to come to a compromise.
If one account is being actively subscribed, would training be allowed to continue on the 'ghost' accounts held by that same subscriber ?
I bet this would surely this would meet the situation of the players who use Ghost training, especially in light of the recent credit crunch; and it would ensure that CCP get the one thing they need, money!
The only people negatively effected would be those who dont play want to play at all for a month or so at a time, but still expect their toons to be levelled as if they did. Sorry if this sounds harsh, but that doesn't really bother me!
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Jinx Barker
GFB Scientific
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Posted - 2008.10.14 11:47:00 -
[1501]
Originally by: Braaage
Originally by: ZaKma Let's see if you listen to your customers CCP. I think most people have made the point pretty damned clear here. Our input used to be valued and appreciated. I think this is no longer the case. Prove me wrong.
Unfortunately I think this is one of those decisions that they wont listen to us on. All this negative err feedback is caused by the way it was announced, calling something a bug and then have it documented in their own documents as a feature is just .... shoot foot time.
I can imagine all CCP bigwigs sat in a room thinking HTF are we gonna get out of this one
I do not think that they really sat around and thought that, I think they simply do not care about their former "base" players. They think that just because the subs seem to grow faster, and because so many of the old timers left, or are just doing on again/off again thing they can pull this stunt.
Personally I am deeply disappointed, this used to be one of the features I have told the noobies about, or people who wanted to start playing. This was a feature I used to use too, I mean it actually drew me back into EVE after a burnout a month or two later - knowing that I had that 30 day skill finished and I can hop into a new shiny ship.
Anyway, if there is anyone left at CCP who is not blinded by greed, and who actually gives a damn about the players, do come by your bosses office and explain to them what "customer loyalty" actually means these days. <<Click The Siggy For the Blog>>
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Zadren Radek
Gallente Ghost in the Machine Tygris Alliance
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Posted - 2008.10.14 11:47:00 -
[1502]
Wow. I'm pretty speachless at the furore this has caused. Not that I'm surprised though tbh. CCP really should have seen this reaction coming.
Your attempt at passing this off as a bug to be addressed is a pretty cynical move, since you have been advertising it as a feature for eons.
Please don't feed us flannel about this being implemented as a database saving measure either. We are all well aware that characters in inactive accounts are not deleted - they sit in the database almost indefinately anyway.
All this is, CCP, is a pennypinching measure, in the same way that your GTC changes were.
As I'm in the forces, I spend a lot of time away, in hot sandy places, with no internet access and no way to play or flip skills. I usually have for more important things on my mind than maintaining accounts on an internet spaceship game, you know? If my accounts lapse for whatever reason, while I'm away, I lose out. If, as happens quite often, my skill training completes while I'm away, then I lose out DESPITE paying you people. And for what? My toons to sit idle in a database, because you refuse to implement a skill training queue?
Spiteful CCP, very very spiteful!
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Medusa d'Mon
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Posted - 2008.10.14 11:48:00 -
[1503]
Originally by: Horny Scientist Running tally:
Account closure threats: 945 Actual accounts that will be closed: 200 Closed account holders who tries WoW and comes back to Eve after a month: 180 Extra accounts opened by Fanfest goers: 500 Remaining subscribers: 50000+
80% of statistics are made up on the spot. I was going to say 75% but I decided to round it up.
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Hypan
Amarr Zebra Corp Chain of Chaos
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Posted - 2008.10.14 11:48:00 -
[1504]
i currently run 6 accounts. 5 are live, one is offline. at anyone time 4 of my accounts are live and being used in PVP or Industry. with this change the one offline account wont come back, she was ment to finish bc5 on saturday and start her life as a commandship pilot. as the other accounts time out i may transfer then to the 2 mains(mine and the gf's) or more than likly consign them to the dust of eve's inactive acount pile. so from an economic's issue thats 4 accounts that you wont even see 75% of the yearly subs from. 0% of ú110 or 75% of ú110... odd choice i feel you have made
hypan
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Piter deVriend
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Posted - 2008.10.14 11:49:00 -
[1505]
Originally by: Liranan
You guys need to stop accusing CCP of being greedy. CCP might have lost a lot of money when Icelandic banks collapsed, so they might have a hard time ahead of them.
What the real issue is CCP not telling us beforehand and not consulting with the players. The CSM exists for a reason, or maybe not. Another thing is the way they tried to spin this. You guys should be picking a problem with their claims that this is a bug, while they claim it's "A long overdue and much needed change".
Stop the whining about greed. CCP might have hard times ahead of them.
Totally not the point. CCP get's its money via USD and EUR and NOT through ISK. They PAY their people with ISK so in fact they make a HUGE pile of money because ISK <-> EUR has plunged.
CCP lied about it being a bug, while our beloved J.A. Wrangler said it was a feature. CCP should be named after a very nice state: CCCP.
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Janine Ramsey
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Posted - 2008.10.14 11:49:00 -
[1506]
epic fail CCP
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Ure Doom
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Posted - 2008.10.14 11:49:00 -
[1507]
Reconsider.
The 'excuse' in the original CCP post fails. The dev blog's attempt at justification fails. One of my accts expires in a few days, I wont reactivate it if this change is implimented as planned at such short notice.
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Jac Straw
Tribal Liberation Force
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Posted - 2008.10.14 11:51:00 -
[1508]
I still can't help lol'ing at this
Please stop ghost Sell/Buy Orders and Research Points too!!!!!!
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ju4n1ta
Gallente The Scope
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Posted - 2008.10.14 11:54:00 -
[1509]
Edited by: ju4n1ta on 14/10/2008 11:55:37 Now that we have this behind us... where the **** is my training queue??!?
EDIT: If you'ro going through with this remove ghost trading, remove ghost RP whoring, remove ghost everything (maybe even offline POSes if all corp POS management chars go inactive). Ghost training is the least of your concerns... you are just money grabbing bastards.
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Lord Fitz
Project Amargosa
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Posted - 2008.10.14 11:54:00 -
[1510]
When are inactive accounts going to be deleted ? Because unless you have monkey with below average intelligence coding your database, an account with training skills should have no more load than one not training. The very reason 'ghost training' is possible is because of this fact, that you don't have to actually 'check' if the skill is completed until someone logs in.
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Suga H
Gallente Federal Navy Academy
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Posted - 2008.10.14 11:55:00 -
[1511]
Originally by: Face deBouc "Ohhh!!! What!! I cant train an alt without pay?"
Nope. Can't even let the time pass without paying now.
Ghost training accomplishes a whole lot of nothing. It simply gave people a reason to go out and spend some RL time for a month. Or spend time on another account.
You have to pay to use the account. You have to pay to use the skill you ghosted. You have to pay to change skills.
Money makes the world go 'round. And apparently now it's required for time to flow as well.
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Mag's
MASS
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Posted - 2008.10.14 11:55:00 -
[1512]
Public Relations 4tw.
CCP The idea was sound, but your implementation was utter fail.
Just how many times can you shoot yourself in the foot?
Mag's
Originally by: Avernus One of these days, the realization that MASS is no longer significant will catch up with you. |
Morscerta
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Posted - 2008.10.14 11:56:00 -
[1513]
Edited by: Morscerta on 14/10/2008 11:58:22 Edited by: Morscerta on 14/10/2008 11:57:13 Honest to God I do not mind the changes as much but if you advertise such a feature:
Much quoted paragraph from your Player guide: "Skills continue training even if you are logged off or if your account is inactive (in the second scenario you can't change skill training, though)."
Stick to it.
It should not cost you as much as you think keeping them as it will cost you when they are not reactivated and it seems many won't be. This amount is likely to be higher than the you originally calculated in your cash flow estimates.
If you like you can send them to me for a quick review and I tell you if it really makes sense
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Arrs Grazznic
Poena Executive Solutions
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Posted - 2008.10.14 11:56:00 -
[1514]
Originally by: Jinx Barker Personally I am deeply disappointed, this used to be one of the features I have told the noobies about, or people who wanted to start playing. This was a feature I used to use too, I mean it actually drew me back into EVE after a burnout a month or two later - knowing that I had that 30 day skill finished and I can hop into a new shiny ship.
CCP will lose out on a lot of subs because of this. Some players will not reactivate accounts after time out of the game as there will be no nice 'welcome back' perk.
The last time I saw the EVE community reply to an idea like this (i.e. 2.5k replies over 100 thread pages in less than 24 hours) was when the sales forum was dropped. CCP complied with the player base's wishes and reversed the decision. I'm interested to see where things go with this change...
Cheers, Arrs
Quote: Is it just me who says "what can I do in real life: drink beer; walk around; put on clothes; fly a spaceship firing at other spaceships" and then use that to choose what I do on the internet?
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Shaemell Buttleson
Euphoria Released Resurgency
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Posted - 2008.10.14 11:56:00 -
[1515]
About time this happened.
ROFL at all you scrounging turds wanting shit for free!
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Suitonia
Gallente interimo
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Posted - 2008.10.14 11:57:00 -
[1516]
The worst thing about this change is that you gave us 2 DAYS notice that this was happening. Seriously, I still dont agree with your reasons for this awful change, but such short notice is going to catch a lot of people out and going to infuriate a lot more people. 2 days is no-where near long enough for people to make plans on what they are going to do on currently 'ghost-training' characters etc.
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Jian Gi
Caldari Wreckless Abandon G00DFELLAS
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Posted - 2008.10.14 11:57:00 -
[1517]
Ok so now with expired account training deactivated, can we please get the skill training queu ?? I am making a leap here but I guess that the reason for not implementing it all this time was because of possible (actually almost certain) abuse with expired accounts training on and on and on .... |
Cho Chiyo
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Posted - 2008.10.14 11:57:00 -
[1518]
Don't understand all the complaining about. We all KNEW that this ghost training was a bug rather than a feature. It was kewl, I have profited from it as everybody else, but the fact that it was cool doesn't make it right. We knew this would happen sooner or later.
On the other hand, CCP's PR could do much better.
- How about providing a second account for existing customers at "power of two" prices? This would sweeten the "fixing" of this bug. The second account could be linked to the main one to avoid reselling it for example.
- How about implementing some form of queuing of learning skills as asked by the CSM? That would have gone well with all of us too.
- How about doing more to tackle the macro farmers?
I won't complain for the loss of an exploit, no matter how much I enjoyed it while it lasted. Still, you CCP can do better than this.
PS: For those out there counting. I'm keeping my second account, I need it and it pays for itself, so it is a no brainer.
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Hondri
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Posted - 2008.10.14 11:57:00 -
[1519]
Hey CCP - Why remove the link from the devblog to this thread, fraid much?
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Lord Bleu
MisFunk Inc. Daisho Syndicate
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Posted - 2008.10.14 11:57:00 -
[1520]
What's the big deal? CCP is a business not a charity.
Nope, I can't see anything wrong with them making this change. ------- I came, I saw, I drank all the beer! |
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Suga H
Gallente Federal Navy Academy
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Posted - 2008.10.14 11:58:00 -
[1521]
Originally by: Shaemell Buttleson
ROFL at all you scrounging turds wanting shit for free!
Good god this argument is annoying.
It's not free ffs. It's simply a margin cheaper. You have to pay to be able to use the account.
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Xenofur
Di-Tron Heavy Industries Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2008.10.14 11:59:00 -
[1522]
I don't mind the change at all. Completely understandable. But you owe us at the very least an apology for lying about why you did it. Don't try to play the PR machine, you're horrible at it. Just be straight out and honest and you'd have people agreeing with you left and right. :)
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mentalmackem
Antares Shipyards Vanguard.
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Posted - 2008.10.14 12:00:00 -
[1523]
has ccp done a SOE here, is this the eve version of the NGE only time will tell but eiether way im not quitting
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Hilda VanDenDungen
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.10.14 12:00:00 -
[1524]
Like several posts above, I read a lot about this game before subscribing. While I have not done it, I thought the fact that skills could train even if you are inactive was an attractive aspect. I think it was noted in the NYT as one of the arguments for why you did not need to be a power gamer to compete in Eve. Now you just need to be a power "payer" instead of power player.
As a side note I was also under the impression that one account could concurrently develop three players but did not investigate further until after I had paid.
Anyway it does mean I may have to grind more if I want to keep a second "free account". Anyway, what else is there to do while you are waiting for a new skill to train to a high level?
My main concern is the ISK price of GTCs. Perhaps the "eve gold" spam mails will make a comeback.
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Sean Mcarthur
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Posted - 2008.10.14 12:00:00 -
[1525]
WTF I was trying to go and cancel one of my acounts(because of this bull**** new "bug" removel) but the manage account page is down. I had set the next payment to be for 6 month, if that payment happens in the downtime of manegmnet i will get REALLY upset.
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Suga H
Gallente Federal Navy Academy
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Posted - 2008.10.14 12:01:00 -
[1526]
Originally by: Hondri Big annoying orange letters.
It wasn't removed.
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OisIsy
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Posted - 2008.10.14 12:01:00 -
[1527]
# CCP noticed a surge in the trend and decided to fix the leak
I guess CCP should cancel all auto-mining-accounts and other script using accounts! This shuold help to fix lots of leaks!!!
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Total Disaster
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Posted - 2008.10.14 12:01:00 -
[1528]
Originally by: Hondri
Hey CCP - Why remove the link from the devblog to this thread, fraid much?
open your eyes, thanks
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Jinx Barker
GFB Scientific
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Posted - 2008.10.14 12:01:00 -
[1529]
Originally by: Shaemell Buttleson About time this happened.
ROFL at all you scrounging turds wanting shit for free!
Right, so all the guys who are going to Afghanistan and Iraq for deployments are scrounging turds? Or the kids going to school away from home that actively blocks EVE and game content, scrounging turds, or people with RL obligations like extended travel, are scrounging turds?
Nice one...
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Lord Fitz
Project Amargosa
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Posted - 2008.10.14 12:02:00 -
[1530]
Originally by: Shaemell Buttleson shit for free!
More and more that actually sums it up.
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Azuse
Brotherhood of Suicidal Priests Pure.
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Posted - 2008.10.14 12:04:00 -
[1531]
Haha 50 pages in 12 hours, new record i believe although the first thread achieved that in seven hours.
"A long overdue, featured, and documented part of the game turns out to be a bug."
Unfortunately eve is not like other mmos, the more advanced the player becomes the more rewarded the player gets for playing less (intelligent design) which combined with the current sis patch, which has now been broken how long, which makes eve even more of a chore just to complete the simplest actions such as moving from a to b.. Well, i can't think of a single reason for people wanting to play less can you?
Also, please explain how a game feature which has been present for 5 years has suddenly "spiked" and has gone unnoticed for 5 years -------------------------
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Stormaar
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.10.14 12:04:00 -
[1532]
Where i can sighn online petition about saving "ghost training"? ----- Customizable UI / internal API for mods/addons |
Piter deVriend
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Posted - 2008.10.14 12:05:00 -
[1533]
It's time they rename FanFest to PayFest?
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Ratio Legis
Slacker Industries
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Posted - 2008.10.14 12:08:00 -
[1534]
Originally by: Stormaar Where i can sighn online petition about saving "ghost training"?
You just signed one I believe.
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Azuse
Brotherhood of Suicidal Priests Pure.
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Posted - 2008.10.14 12:09:00 -
[1535]
Well the thing is eve player base average is 27/28, mostly professionals of some form or other, which basically means is they have a very intelligent player base. Every few months for the past year some change or other has gone through coated with a strait-faced lie and incomprehension as to why that would happen
Also i doubt any petition would help, this was a business decision plain and simple (hence the, frankly crappy, deception). If you have a life, job or family that prevents you getting to a pc, move house or get posted oversees you're just not important enough to be a ccp customer. -------------------------
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Leica Stroganow
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Posted - 2008.10.14 12:10:00 -
[1536]
So there we are CCP, money is more than a reliable community, and thats the only reason i see MONEY nothing more.
-Not all off us are money shiting donkeys. -Not all off us are harcore 24/7 players ive heard roumour¦s that afew off us have to go to work, sometimes for weeks without geting a chance to play. -You called it a FEATURE over 5 YEARS and now its a BUG god damed(/&%$º"$%&/&%$ YOU
Most off your subscribers want to "log off from Real Live" to play eve, not to see the things you are doing know, our goverments are F***ing us hard and permanent up and down, and we just want to logoff from this shit, and know you do the same!!!
WHAT A SHAME
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Azuse
Brotherhood of Suicidal Priests Pure.
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Posted - 2008.10.14 12:10:00 -
[1537]
Well the thing is eve player base average is 27/28, mostly professionals of some form or other, which basically means is they have a very intelligent player base. Every few months for the past year some change or other has gone through coated with a strait-faced lie and incomprehension as to why that would happen
Also i doubt any petition would help, this was a business decision plain and simple (hence the, frankly crappy, deception). If you have a life, job or family that prevents you getting to a pc, move house or get posted oversees you're just not important enough to be a ccp customer. -------------------------
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Velda Chulai
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 12:11:00 -
[1538]
Originally by: Horny Scientist Running tally:
Account closure threats: 945 Actual accounts that will be closed: 200 Closed account holders who tries WoW and comes back to Eve after a month: 180 Extra accounts opened by Fanfest goers: 500 Remaining subscribers: 50000+
There are closer to 230,000 subscriptions, although the number of subscribers is probably in line.
Some players will shut down their alts. Others will leave. The reason I won't be giving my stuff away is because I still have hope that CCP will fix what they've broken.
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Marla Ramsey
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Posted - 2008.10.14 12:11:00 -
[1539]
Edited by: Marla Ramsey on 14/10/2008 12:11:08 Skills continue training even if you are logged off or if your account is inactive (in the second scenario you can't change skill training, though). As a result, it is a good idea to train short skills while you are playing and longer ones when you log off. If you want to switch skills, you can simply do so by starting another skill training
CCP learn to read your own crap ..greedy b*****ds..lias
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Sean Mcarthur
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Posted - 2008.10.14 12:11:00 -
[1540]
hmm and server is not accepting connection, funny that just an hour after I sent a coplaint telling I am quiting because of their stupid decisions, then I can't log on and unsuscribe? this is of course coincidence but still all the small bugs really make me less and less of a fan. I LOVE eve but right now it feels like the bright shiny experince that is eve is fallinge apart in front of me thanks a lot CCP and to think that I was planning to go to island just last week
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Jukio
Gallente LFC Executive Outcomes
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Posted - 2008.10.14 12:11:00 -
[1541]
My suggestion:
Fire the guy that made the initial announcement, Apologise to the fans DOnt let this go through Next time dont semi-stealth nerf stuffz (remember teh stealth nerf of that speedrig??), and dont announce crap like this one day before implementation If youre in financial trubble jus t say so, maybe ppl will react more sympathetic than when you treat them like morons, that reads too much like corporate indifference where the clients are nothing more than "income"
Havent been there, havent done it and NO, dont have the friggin T-shirt
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Last Flower
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Posted - 2008.10.14 12:11:00 -
[1542]
Edited by: Last Flower on 14/10/2008 12:14:45 .
Of course it would be more fair and appreciated by CCP's customers if CCP would just say "cause we need money". That will never happen, however, and let me explain you why are we being fed lies, it's for a reason.
Due to "credit crush" and actual economical hole all countries of the world feel to one extent or another, any "virtual" money (credit, loans etc.) or would-be-money deteriorate in value, cause it(money) exist not NOW, that is, in the present. Every company that is at stake now tries to accumulate as much REAL money at this given moment as possible. Yes, this "ghost training" nerf will cause CCP to loose players in long run, loose revenue in long run, but hey, they can deal with that later, by firing-off a new marketing campaign to bring folks back. Thus they employ "oh snap, we'll figure out something!(later)" tactics at the moment, and do this premeditated and smart move to get as much REAL money as they can as fast as possible. How this is achieved? First of, you analyze the situation, the data you have, and you see that there is a large number of "would-be-money-in-a-near-future" but it ain't "real money now", so how do you make the aforementioned into the other and fast? You cut-off "ghost training" and what you get is a vast number of people resubscribing into their accounts for whatever reasons they got (prolly main accounts on "vacation") in 2 days time! <-- HENCE THE SHORT TIME NOTICE. So, the immediate effect is the immediate real money flow and hey, the right immediate upt to date and fresh numbers to show to your business partners ("hey, it's all ok on our end! it's safe to invest").
Now why the "bug" scam? What a self respecting company with common business sense would admit to it's customers that it's finances are bit on the edge? Admitting to your customers, you would also admit to your investors, to your business partners and anyone related to your business. Now we wouldn't want to let that happen, do we? It's way more easier to lie to your customers by saying it's a bug, than to try to negotiate a future business deal with your investor by saying "you know, we're a bit low..."
It's simple as that logic not everyone manages to perceive. SO here are your reasons for "why do they tell lies" drama.
|
Ghostess
United Mining Corporation
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 12:11:00 -
[1543]
Only two things are important now. A lot of other things are just totally ****ed up but these two take priority over everything else:
1. CCP lied to us stating this had to do with some sort of unfairness to other players.
2. CCP admitted it was a lie and then answered with more lies.
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Val Kox
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 12:12:00 -
[1544]
So on 15th if an inactive account is training something - will it stop or finish as planned ?
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Commander Spectre
The Funkstars Guild
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 12:12:00 -
[1545]
Edited by: Commander Spectre on 14/10/2008 12:14:34 Next patch notes will probably look something like this...
1. Subscription rates will be increased to $19.95 to make EVE Online more "Balanced" with all other MMO games.
2. Skill Training will only be allowed when logged in to put EVE "inline" with all other MMO games avaialable.
3. Skillbooks will only be sold in the new item shop to reduce the player controlled market and "Balance" EVE with other MMOs
4. A new Pink Bunny skin for your ship will be available in the new item shop for $9.99 to make EVE online "inline" with all other ghey MMOs and "Balance" our wallets...
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Suga H
Gallente Federal Navy Academy
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 12:13:00 -
[1546]
Edited by: Suga H on 14/10/2008 12:14:23 On a slight side note. CCP, you're being a bunch of jerks. Way to make the new guy break the news about what's apparently the hottest subject to date. Your wallets and our wallets. :/ He posted his intro post less than two weeks ago! CCP Fallout. Ironic name, poor guy :(
Originally by: Commander Spectre
4. A new Pink Bunny skin for your ship will be available in the new item shop for $9.99 to make EVE online "inline" with all other ghey MMOs and "Balance" our wallets...
I'd pay 10bux to fly a Pink Bunny skinned ship. Wonder if it'd make my dominix look fat?
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Face deBouc
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 12:15:00 -
[1547]
The real reason of this change : CCP Wrangler eat little cat @ lunch, Iceland is a small island and there's no more cat for feed CCP WRANGLER, they must now import little cat form all around the world.
Recently CCP have decided the reduce the "FUNKY" lag for fleet battle & CO... So they havent enough money for feed CCP WRANGLER.
now stop all your "funky" post for say nothing and go play WOW or anything else, THX and remeber i take your stuff/isk for free.
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SupplyOfficer
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 12:17:00 -
[1548]
riot at 20 gt in jita .. come in BS
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Ratio Legis
Slacker Industries
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 12:17:00 -
[1549]
Edited by: Ratio Legis on 14/10/2008 12:18:08
Originally by: Last Flower Of course it would be more fair and appreciated by CCP's customers if CCP would just say "cause we need money".
CCP do not need money, they want money. If they came here with this heart-breaking blog that explained in detail how they would go bankrupt if they didn't remove ghost training, I'm sure they'd find a much more supportive and understanding community response. It is clear however that it's not a case of need but of desire, and nobody likes to be screwed over for somebody else's optional financial gain.
Which, in this case, is more theoretical than practical, while the screwing over is substantial all over.
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MR Oiso
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 12:17:00 -
[1550]
Because of my bad english i am not able to write every of my thoughts about that.
But this is only stupid nothing else. This is not a bug but a unique selling point. And it is a brazenness to take the own customers for a fool.
Shame on you CCP.
iam awaiting CCP to apologize to there customers.
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yarrmarr
Ministry of War
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 12:17:00 -
[1551]
Originally by: Face deBouc
The real reason of this change : CCP Wrangler eat little cat @ lunch, Iceland is a small island and there's no more cat for feed CCP WRANGLER, they must now import little cat form all around the world.
Recently CCP have decided the reduce the "FUNKY" lag for fleet battle & CO... So they havent enough money for feed CCP WRANGLER.
now stop all your "funky" post for say nothing and go play WOW or anything else, THX and remeber i take your stuff/isk for free.
hello kitty online is -> that way. read the post again and try and understand some of the points other people make.
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StainLessStealRat
Space Oddysey Pupule 'Ohana
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 12:18:00 -
[1552]
Originally by: Ratio Legis
Originally by: Stormaar Where i can sighn online petition about saving "ghost training"?
You just signed one I believe.
signed again
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Suga H
Gallente Federal Navy Academy
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 12:18:00 -
[1553]
Originally by: Val Kox So on 15th if an inactive account is training something - will it stop or finish as planned ?
Or get glitched and lose any time that's already be reset to 0 :/
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Inakaan
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 12:19:00 -
[1554]
cancelling my 2 accounts, there are TONS of MMORGS out there CCP, i've paid alot of money into you guys and now this blantant money grab scheme, well you arent getting any more of my money until this stupid corporate "IDEA" is nixed
later
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MustakaTank
Lost Star Technologies Ethereal Dawn
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 12:20:00 -
[1555]
This thread is full of win. The emo tears are flowing like a river. I especially like the losers who are drawing links with the global credit crunch to Eve nerfing basically a freebie.
"I can't get something for nothing...... Bahahahaaaaaahhh" *Emo child throws teddie into a corner*
I say to all the people who are quitting - good riddance. More isk for me.
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Chaos Incarnate
Faceless Logistics
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 12:20:00 -
[1556]
Originally by: Suga H
I'd pay 10bux to fly a Pink Bunny skinned ship. Wonder if it'd make my dominix look fat?
Dominix's always look fat __________
Sig by Neth'Rae Cannot read from face Abort, Retry, Fail? FFFFFF |
Seth Ruin
Minmatar Ominous Corp Ethereal Dawn
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 12:20:00 -
[1557]
Originally by: Last Flower Edited by: Last Flower on 14/10/2008 12:14:45 .
Of course it would be more fair and appreciated by CCP's customers if CCP would just say "cause we need money". That will never happen, however, and let me explain you why are we being fed lies, it's for a reason.
Due to "credit crush" and actual economical hole all countries of the world feel to one extent or another, any "virtual" money (credit, loans etc.) or would-be-money deteriorate in value, cause it(money) exist not NOW, that is, in the present. Every company that is at stake now tries to accumulate as much REAL money at this given moment as possible. Yes, this "ghost training" nerf will cause CCP to loose players in long run, loose revenue in long run, but hey, they can deal with that later, by firing-off a new marketing campaign to bring folks back. Thus they employ "oh snap, we'll figure out something!(later)" tactics at the moment, and do this premeditated and smart move to get as much REAL money as they can as fast as possible. How this is achieved? First of, you analyze the situation, the data you have, and you see that there is a large number of "would-be-money-in-a-near-future" but it ain't "real money now", so how do you make the aforementioned into the other and fast? You cut-off "ghost training" and what you get is a vast number of people resubscribing into their accounts for whatever reasons they got (prolly main accounts on "vacation") in 2 days time! <-- HENCE THE SHORT TIME NOTICE. So, the immediate effect is the immediate real money flow and hey, the right immediate upt to date and fresh numbers to show to your business partners ("hey, it's all ok on our end! it's safe to invest").
Now why the "bug" scam? What a self respecting company with common business sense would admit to it's customers that it's finances are bit on the edge? Admitting to your customers, you would also admit to your investors, to your business partners and anyone related to your business. Now we wouldn't want to let that happen, do we? It's way more easier to lie to your customers by saying it's a bug, than to try to negotiate a future business deal with your investor by saying "you know, we're a bit low..."
It's simple as that logic not everyone manages to perceive. SO here are your reasons for "why do they tell lies" drama.
So they'd rather tell investors they've ****ed off their player base (y'know, loyal customers) with a blatant lie than tell them they're hard up on cash?
-- (CCP Inconsistency) |
Commander Spectre
The Funkstars Guild
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 12:21:00 -
[1558]
LoL...I knew someone would want that...crap now I gotta kill pink bunnies again. See what this does to our youth? Animal Cruelty cases will soar!
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Helios vector
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 12:21:00 -
[1559]
this is really total bullshite! First off, this is the only online game that pretty much takes YEARS to build up any type of good character. I was planning on leveling one of those 1month skills (its bad enough these take that long in the firstplace) while im away at christmas. So what, its not ecemonicly viable to let me do this? how am i supposed to get anywhere in the game then? pay 14euro for that month just to train one skill in a long list of other skills to get to my goal? You make it seem like you have such a great service with your daily down times and multiply 5-6hour downtimes. All this rescent crap is really going to hit the fan soon. Im sure me and many others will not be around to see the crap fly if youknow what I mean. This "bug" fix will be one of your greatest mistakes ever. It really is a shame, i did like this game, but if i cant train skills when im not activated, i might aswell quit now if i cant obtain my longterm goals in the long run. (ps. only have one account myself) I thought you guys were happy enough with needing us to buy a subscription every once in a while to choose a new skill to train.
In the end, this is really just a greedy act by CCP. Whats pretty funny though is that this will backfire on you. with all of these peoples multiple accounts gone and no one gets a short subscription to set a new ghost skill train, you will lose money and players in the run too.
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Arrs Grazznic
Poena Executive Solutions
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 12:21:00 -
[1560]
Originally by: Suga H Ghost training accomplishes a whole lot of nothing. It simply gave people a reason to go out and spend some RL time for a month. Or spend time on another account. You have to pay to use the account. You have to pay to use the skill you ghosted. You have to pay to change skills.
This.
Cheers, Arrs
Quote: Is it just me who says "what can I do in real life: drink beer; walk around; put on clothes; fly a spaceship firing at other spaceships" and then use that to choose what I do on the internet?
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Stromfresser
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 12:21:00 -
[1561]
CCP this isnt looking good at all for you... i also agree that this is a shot in your own foot so stop the change! or else if you really need money stop buying expensive aquariums for your offices... i bet for the money you spent on the aquarium you could have bought at least 2-3 blade new intel single node blade servers to reduce lagg! so stop complaining about you need money... im sick of this now and the rabble in here should give you some feedback so think about it! im also planning on -1 account for me... this is no joke and i think CCP can if they want control it themselves... so check the character "Tessa Light". i am not going to reactivate it if you continue this!
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chotaire
Caldari The Rising Stars Cosmic Anomalies
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 12:21:00 -
[1562]
Edited by: chotaire on 14/10/2008 12:22:04
Originally by: chotaire
Regarding your dev blog, I have some more stuff to add aswell. Let's go into theory. We do have an evil person who does nothing else than ghost training for a whole year. Especially during the first years, there are probably no skills that take much longer than 50 days. So theoretically, instead of paying 6 subscriptions, someone does only pay 4 subscriptions the first year. During the inactive period of those subscriptions, the database entry does not see much change except of a timer script adding skillpoints to a single skill (and single character). Are you telling me that 4 out of 6 subscriptions are not worth calculating and changing one database entry during inactive times? I believe each and every datacenter out there with a DB cluster would happily receive such subscription fees for regularly committing such a simple function - and while talking about that, why not committing this function only ONCE - when the account gets reactivated? That means, inactive subscriptions will skill appropiately, just that API doesnt show the progress while the account is inactive. Wow, one db update per paying customer, no matter how long they skill, that's a damn huge DB load and ffs am I getting ironic? Then again this is all bullsh*t, because there is way more updates to the DB while someone is inactive. Say market skills change while someone is selling items while being inactive, or the corporation of the ghost trainer in question changes the alliance, contracts get finished, items sold, insurances expiring etc..etc... That's a damn huge load of db updates for offline people. So much more than skill updates. How come this is not a problem? I see incredible epic fail in this announcement!! Skills (if db functions get optimized for inactive subscriptions) can't have as much of an impact to the db like any other offline action. We are obviously being fooled, database programmers speak out loud!
So, CCP, what's up with the MASSIVE db load caused by ghost training?
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Kreso Cakija
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 12:22:00 -
[1563]
Edited by: Kreso Cakija on 14/10/2008 12:22:53 " Skills continue training even if you are logged off or if your account is inactive (in the second scenario you can't change skill training, though). "
This is quote from CCP Player Guide, so this s not bug this is advertised feature. So CCP is this case act in inmoral way.
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Ukulu
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 12:23:00 -
[1564]
Not happy about this action! Think I'll transfer my 3 account main characters to a single account. Less money for CCP.
Poorly thought out CCP.
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Roemy Schneider
BINFORD
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 12:23:00 -
[1565]
Edited by: Roemy Schneider on 14/10/2008 12:24:55 "But recently we have seen a surge in this behavior " translation: "wtf, why do you guys all leave and do capital skills while you're at it"
'cause i thought amber leon did his/her 50-hulk-char-sale (some later continu'ed to rorq)
and what about datacores? RP keep flowing in?
heck at least leave a 100h buffer for those who still (have to) purchase GTC with RM - putting the gist back into logistics |
Dmian
Gallente The Scope
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 12:24:00 -
[1566]
I only want to remember you all this:
Originally by: EULA, 10.E "New Releases of the Software" CCP may update, upgrade or otherwise enhance the Software at any time, in its sole discretion, without obligation to you.
Originally by: TOS CCP MAY FIND IT NECESSARY ON OCCASION TO MAKE CHANGES TO OR RESET CERTAIN PARAMETERS OF THE PERSISTENT GAME WORLD MECHANICS, INTERFACE OR FEATURES OF EVE ONLINE IN ORDER TO MAINTAIN GAME BALANCE AND ENHANCE PLAYABILITY OR PERFORMANCE FOR ITS SUBSCRIBERS. THESE CHANGES MAY AFFECT OR CAUSE SETBACKS FOR THE CHARACTERS YOUÆVE CREATED.
You've agreed to this terms. You should respect what you've agreed to. ----
Eve Alpha - The font of Eve - Get it here |
Xen Gin
Universal Mining Inc Forged Dominion
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 12:24:00 -
[1567]
Edited by: Xen Gin on 14/10/2008 12:24:19 Man, all you people "quitting" EvE will allow me to fly around without having to listen to you smacktalk in local ever again!?
I'm so in favour of this change you cheapskates!
Also why are you still here? Quitting? Then actually do it, instead of smacktalking in the forums.
I smell the whines of noobs crying out because momma no likes to breast feed ya anymore!
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Rramar Claime
Amarr Task Force Zener Atlas Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 12:24:00 -
[1568]
Originally by: Hurint
Originally by: Jinx Barker
... ever since the "old" guard of the developers left active EVE online roles CCP customer service, CCP customer attunes, and general CCP attitude toward its player base has gone to shit.
qft - stop attacking your fans... if you can even call us that any more
Thank you. "I cherish the memories of a question my grandson asked me the other day, when he said; 'Grandpa, were you a hero in the war?' Grandpa said, 'No, but I served in a company of heroes." |
Hoinus
Gallente Demon Theory UNLeashed Legion
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 12:25:00 -
[1569]
LOL
Blah... |
Damned Force
Minmatar Republic Military School
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 12:25:00 -
[1570]
Originally by: Shaemell Buttleson About time this happened.
ROFL at all you scrounging turds wanting shit for free!
ROFL at all ******s which like if someone lies into his face for his money
|
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Janine Ramsey
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 12:25:00 -
[1571]
Originally by: Dmian I only want to remember you all this:
Originally by: EULA, 10.E "New Releases of the Software" CCP may update, upgrade or otherwise enhance the Software at any time, in its sole discretion, without obligation to you.
Originally by: TOS CCP MAY FIND IT NECESSARY ON OCCASION TO MAKE CHANGES TO OR RESET CERTAIN PARAMETERS OF THE PERSISTENT GAME WORLD MECHANICS, INTERFACE OR FEATURES OF EVE ONLINE IN ORDER TO MAINTAIN GAME BALANCE AND ENHANCE PLAYABILITY OR PERFORMANCE FOR ITS SUBSCRIBERS. THESE CHANGES MAY AFFECT OR CAUSE SETBACKS FOR THE CHARACTERS YOUÆVE CREATED.
You've agreed to this terms. You should respect what you've agreed to.
they say its a bug - nope they advertised it and could simply say we change it , instead they lie
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Victriferusianus
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 12:25:00 -
[1572]
It's a good thing that ghost training will be disabled. Cycling through accounts to get more skills trained is broken and should be fixed. I don't really see why a character in an inactive account should advance in any way. Also, if the only thing that makes you come back to EVE is that you have some skill one level higher waiting for you, maybe you shouldn't come back to EVE. The announcement was worded badly, but that's about it.
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Skogen Gump
Jericho Fraction
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 12:26:00 -
[1573]
Originally by: chotaire We are obviously being fooled, database programmers speak out loud!
Well, unless you know their Schema, you don't know anything about what it actually takes to implement this, so your post is unfounded.
And yes, I am a database developer amongst other things.
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Siona Windweaver
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 12:27:00 -
[1574]
Originally by: Dmian I only want to remember you all this:
Originally by: EULA, 10.E "New Releases of the Software" CCP may update, upgrade or otherwise enhance the Software at any time, in its sole discretion, without obligation to you.
Originally by: TOS CCP MAY FIND IT NECESSARY ON OCCASION TO MAKE CHANGES TO OR RESET CERTAIN PARAMETERS OF THE PERSISTENT GAME WORLD MECHANICS, INTERFACE OR FEATURES OF EVE ONLINE IN ORDER TO MAINTAIN GAME BALANCE AND ENHANCE PLAYABILITY OR PERFORMANCE FOR ITS SUBSCRIBERS. THESE CHANGES MAY AFFECT OR CAUSE SETBACKS FOR THE CHARACTERS YOUÆVE CREATED.
You've agreed to this terms. You should respect what you've agreed to.
Just because its in the TOS/EULA doesn't mean it is right. TOS/EULA is more like a failsafe system in case there are some legal issues.
Everyone knows MMO developers acts with the community in mind.
|
Cpt Branko
Surge.
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 12:27:00 -
[1575]
Edited by: Cpt Branko on 14/10/2008 12:29:32
Originally by: Jinx Barker
Originally by: Shaemell Buttleson About time this happened. ROFL at all you scrounging turds wanting shit for free!
Right, so all the guys who are going to Afghanistan and Iraq for deployments are scrounging turds? Or the kids going to school away from home that actively blocks EVE and game content, scrounging turds, or people with RL obligations like extended travel, are scrounging turds?
Nice one...
I don't know. I don't have to do anything to keep my account subscribed (takes cash off credit card automatically) and it takes only half a minute to swap skills.
So you are just wanting skill training for free. It's definitely not a matter of "RL obligations". And for one account, paying 15$ or 15 euros a month IS peanuts, not "power payer" as someone said.
LOL a the people quitting EvE because he cannot train his alts for 1/2 (or less) the price. Can I have your stuff?
Getting skill training while you're not paying is basically getting free stuff. It worked for a long time, now it doesn't. Claiming you've got 'rights' as a non-paying customer is silly.
Edit: the stupid part is how the ghost training removal is handled PR wise.
Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
Dmian
Gallente The Scope
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 12:28:00 -
[1576]
Originally by: Janine Ramsey they say its a bug - nope they advertised it and could simply say we change it , instead they lie
What they say is irrelevant. They can change the game as they see fit, without giving explanations. ----
Eve Alpha - The font of Eve - Get it here |
Piter deVriend
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 12:28:00 -
[1577]
Originally by: Victriferusianus It's a good thing that ghost training will be disabled. Cycling through accounts to get more skills trained is broken and should be fixed. I don't really see why a character in an inactive account should advance in any way. Also, if the only thing that makes you come back to EVE is that you have some skill one level higher waiting for you, maybe you shouldn't come back to EVE. The announcement was worded badly, but that's about it.
In the normal world, when you work you achieve something. Eve's idiotic skill system prevents you from doing that. That's why this was a small compensation for this dreadfull skilling system.
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Siona Windweaver
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 12:29:00 -
[1578]
Originally by: Dmian
Originally by: Janine Ramsey they say its a bug - nope they advertised it and could simply say we change it , instead they lie
What they say is irrelevant. They can change the game as they see fit, without giving explanations.
NGE?
yeah right...
|
Bytad
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 12:29:00 -
[1579]
Ghost training was not a feature for me to play eve but because of this brilliant idea of canceling it there wont be anybody to play eve with
there goes your player run market
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Janine Ramsey
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 12:29:00 -
[1580]
Originally by: Dmian
Originally by: Janine Ramsey they say its a bug - nope they advertised it and could simply say we change it , instead they lie
What they say is irrelevant. They can change the game as they see fit, without giving explanations.
a lie stays a lie
|
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Dmian
Gallente The Scope
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 12:29:00 -
[1581]
Originally by: Siona Windweaver Just because its in the TOS/EULA doesn't mean it is right. TOS/EULA is more like a failsafe system in case there are some legal issues.
Everyone knows MMO developers acts with the community in mind.
Go to a lawyer, tell him/her exactly that. Watch his/her reaction. ----
Eve Alpha - The font of Eve - Get it here |
Simmith
Royal Geographic Society Safe And Fun Environment
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 12:29:00 -
[1582]
Originally by: Proud American Because you are a producer I can see why you care more about money than your companies image or your customers.
Customer:
1. a person who purchases goods or services from another; buyer; patron.
Leech:
2. a person who clings to another for personal gain, esp. without giving anything in return, and usually with the implication or effect of exhausting the other's resources; parasite.
The proposed change gets rid of leeches, not customers. Which are you?
LP Store Database | ME Evaluator |
Janine Ramsey
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 12:31:00 -
[1583]
Originally by: Simmith
Originally by: Proud American Because you are a producer I can see why you care more about money than your companies image or your customers.
Customer:
1. a person who purchases goods or services from another; buyer; patron.
Leech:
2. a person who clings to another for personal gain, esp. without giving anything in return, and usually with the implication or effect of exhausting the other's resources; parasite.
The proposed change gets rid of leeches, not customers. Which are you?
so a payed feature of the game makes u a leecher now? wow
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WaiKin Beldar
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 12:32:00 -
[1584]
It's hard to believe that the same company that included an Economist to supervise and assess on the game market in its staff (brilliant, imho)has taken this kind of decision. You did not have anyone who told you, seriously, this is not going to do any good to CCP's economy (taking for granted that the customer's economy will be hit) before making an official announcement to the world?
Ghost training is a unique feature that gives me the option to gain SPs (=ability of doing new or better things in this game)if, for instance, I have to focus my time to other chars,stay away in RL from EVE for long periods, or just chilling out for really long skill times.
Skipping this feature is, in no way, making more attractive this game to the old players.
Exactly the same reason why a lot of new players are coming to play EVE looking for something different from the rest of MMORPGs.
Very bad move. Worst strategy.
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Amaron Ghant
Caldari Pierre Vorvuden Corp
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 12:33:00 -
[1585]
Try as I might, I can't blame CCP for this move.
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Siona Windweaver
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 12:34:00 -
[1586]
Originally by: Dmian
Originally by: Siona Windweaver Just because its in the TOS/EULA doesn't mean it is right. TOS/EULA is more like a failsafe system in case there are some legal issues.
Everyone knows MMO developers acts with the community in mind.
Go to a lawyer, tell him/her exactly that. Watch his/her reaction.
Yes, just because EULA permits it, ****ing off your paying customers that can cancel their account without a warning, is right.
There are lots of examples of this in MMO history, best one is NGE with SWG. MMO's got one rule imo, don't **** off your customers.
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Confuzer
Volition Cult The Volition Cult
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 12:34:00 -
[1587]
Ooh hell what replies.
Most of you people talk about things you know NOTHING about. Greedy? Don't they have alot of costs too? Development is EXPENSIVE.
I pay 12 euro's a month, and it's NOTHING compared to what I get back.
I miss alot of respect here. Don't you think they haven't talked about this in the CCP office? Maybe they do need the money, but you know why? Not for expensive cars, but for costs, development and expansion.
They aren't WoW with milions of users. ----------------- Destiny is not a matter of chance. It is a matter of choice. It's not a thing to be waited for - it is a thing to be achieved. |
cuculet
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Posted - 2008.10.14 12:34:00 -
[1588]
Originally by: Xen Gin Edited by: Xen Gin on 14/10/2008 12:24:19 Man, all you people "quitting" EvE will allow me to fly around without having to listen to you smacktalk in local ever again!?
I'm so in favour of this change you cheapskates!
Also why are you still here? Quitting? Then actually do it, instead of smacktalking in the forums.
I smell the whines of noobs crying out because momma no likes to breast feed ya anymore!
i smell an idiot! |
Kortalis Hellion
Gallente Void Angels Confederation of Independent Corporations
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Posted - 2008.10.14 12:34:00 -
[1589]
Seriously guys? After all these &^%$ing disappointing patches I am starting to wonder why I stay on this game.
-45$ a month if this sticks
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DealsOnWheels
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Posted - 2008.10.14 12:35:00 -
[1590]
This is just stupid from ccp. All it is doing is putting more money into there wallet at the expensive of people playing the game.
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Amaron Ghant
Caldari Pierre Vorvuden Corp
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Posted - 2008.10.14 12:35:00 -
[1591]
Originally by: WaiKin Beldar
Ghost training is a unique feature that gives me the option to gain SPs (=ability of doing new or better things in this game)if, for instance, I have to focus my time to other chars,stay away in RL from EVE for long periods, or just chilling out for really long skill times.
Very bad move. Worst strategy.
translation. I like the fact that I can skill for free and spend that subscription money on something else I would sup with the devil and forget to use a long spoon if it led to me spitting on the grave of nationalism.
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Arrs Grazznic
Poena Executive Solutions
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Posted - 2008.10.14 12:35:00 -
[1592]
Originally by: Simmith Customer:
1. a person who purchases goods or services from another; buyer; patron.
Leech:
2. a person who clings to another for personal gain, esp. without giving anything in return, and usually with the implication or effect of exhausting the other's resources; parasite.
The proposed change gets rid of leeches, not customers. Which are you?
You still need to pay to make use of the trained skill...
Cheers, Arrs
Quote: Is it just me who says "what can I do in real life: drink beer; walk around; put on clothes; fly a spaceship firing at other spaceships" and then use that to choose what I do on the internet?
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Kortalis Hellion
Gallente Void Angels Confederation of Independent Corporations
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Posted - 2008.10.14 12:36:00 -
[1593]
Also on a side note, if they pull the idea and be like "O nevermind guys, we apologise that was uncalled for we take it back"
and seriously did use that as a deterent of the speed nerf coming, tbh hats off and well played lol
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Little help
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Posted - 2008.10.14 12:36:00 -
[1594]
Originally by: Simmith
Originally by: Proud American Because you are a producer I can see why you care more about money than your companies image or your customers.
Customer:
1. a person who purchases goods or services from another; buyer; patron.
Leech:
2. a person who clings to another for personal gain, esp. without giving anything in return, and usually with the implication or effect of exhausting the other's resources; parasite.
The proposed change gets rid of leeches, not customers. Which are you?
I acknowledge that CCP has the complete freedom to do as they see fit. I am a customer using my right to demand the terms I prefer.
If we can not agree, I won't choose the service. Out of respect as a long term customer I point out the things that I don't like.
But you, you FAIL.
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Victriferusianus
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Posted - 2008.10.14 12:36:00 -
[1595]
Originally by: Piter deVriend
In the normal world, when you work you achieve something. Eve's idiotic skill system prevents you from doing that. That's why this was a small compensation for this dreadfull skilling system.
I think EVEs skill system is very good. You don't need boring grinding to advance skills. I think there is no need for any compensation and definetly no need for a loophole to gain skill advantage over players that don't want to exploit the loophole.
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Last Flower
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Posted - 2008.10.14 12:37:00 -
[1596]
Edited by: Last Flower on 14/10/2008 12:41:31
Originally by: Seth Ruin
Originally by: Last Flower Edited by: Last Flower on 14/10/2008 12:14:45 .
Of course it would be more fair and appreciated by CCP's customers if CCP would just say "cause we need money". That will never happen, however, and let me explain you why are we being fed lies, it's for a reason.
Due to "credit crush" and actual economical hole all countries of the world feel to one extent or another, any "virtual" money (credit, loans etc.) or would-be-money deteriorate in value, cause it(money) exist not NOW, that is, in the present. Every company that is at stake now tries to accumulate as much REAL money at this given moment as possible. Yes, this "ghost training" nerf will cause CCP to loose players in long run, loose revenue in long run, but hey, they can deal with that later, by firing-off a new marketing campaign to bring folks back. Thus they employ "oh snap, we'll figure out something!(later)" tactics at the moment, and do this premeditated and smart move to get as much REAL money as they can as fast as possible. How this is achieved? First of, you analyze the situation, the data you have, and you see that there is a large number of "would-be-money-in-a-near-future" but it ain't "real money now", so how do you make the aforementioned into the other and fast? You cut-off "ghost training" and what you get is a vast number of people resubscribing into their accounts for whatever reasons they got (prolly main accounts on "vacation") in 2 days time! <-- HENCE THE SHORT TIME NOTICE. So, the immediate effect is the immediate real money flow and hey, the right immediate upt to date and fresh numbers to show to your business partners ("hey, it's all ok on our end! it's safe to invest").
Now why the "bug" scam? What a self respecting company with common business sense would admit to it's customers that it's finances are bit on the edge? Admitting to your customers, you would also admit to your investors, to your business partners and anyone related to your business. Now we wouldn't want to let that happen, do we? It's way more easier to lie to your customers by saying it's a bug, than to try to negotiate a future business deal with your investor by saying "you know, we're a bit low..."
It's simple as that logic not everyone manages to perceive. SO here are your reasons for "why do they tell lies" drama.
So they'd rather tell investors they've ****ed off their player base (y'know, loyal customers) with a blatant lie than tell them they're hard up on cash?
That derives from a fact that players are expendable, at the given need and time, it's the numbers of real money that matter for the company to be able to not to go bankrupt/loan (in the worst case scenario) now. Some leave , some cancel alts, but still ,you'll get more money TODAY, you need it now, so you could have a stable base to plan ahead, not a month after... In the "After" you might have lost all your partners and future deals already.
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Siona Windweaver
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Posted - 2008.10.14 12:37:00 -
[1597]
Edited by: Siona Windweaver on 14/10/2008 12:37:15
Originally by: Amaron Ghant
Originally by: WaiKin Beldar
Ghost training is a unique feature that gives me the option to gain SPs (=ability of doing new or better things in this game)if, for instance, I have to focus my time to other chars,stay away in RL from EVE for long periods, or just chilling out for really long skill times.
Very bad move. Worst strategy.
translation. I like the fact that I can skill for free and spend that subscription money on something else
Wrong, correct translation: I like the fact that i can get a "welcome back present" when i come back. I like it so much, i usually come back just for that "present". Otherwise i wouldn't bother paying for an account.
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Gregor Nine
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Posted - 2008.10.14 12:37:00 -
[1598]
so i c this is time to say bye bye and make go go to another mmo. this acc expires and no new subscryptions, and sec...why bother making it active...
bad...i just startin love this game...but as i c market panic makes ur brain damaged ccp and u just doin dumbest thing ever to player community
such a shame
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Piter deVriend
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Posted - 2008.10.14 12:37:00 -
[1599]
Originally by: Amaron Ghant
Originally by: WaiKin Beldar
Ghost training is a unique feature that gives me the option to gain SPs (=ability of doing new or better things in this game)if, for instance, I have to focus my time to other chars,stay away in RL from EVE for long periods, or just chilling out for really long skill times.
Very bad move. Worst strategy.
translation. I like the fact that I can skill for free and spend that subscription money on something else
It's not about the money *snip*, it's about the fact they LIE.
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Rev Russ
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Posted - 2008.10.14 12:37:00 -
[1600]
Originally by: Avon Edited by: Avon on 13/10/2008 23:33:51 Edited by: Avon on 13/10/2008 23:22:50 I don't mind this change at all as my accounts have always been active, but...
..you'd better be real quick cleaning out the forums of historical CCP posts about this "feature" as it was, before you try to make out it is now a "bug".
Added from my later post: Hey, your bug...
Skills continue training even if you are logged off or if your account is inactive
I found it in the player guide.
You guys better get in there and ninja-edit it.
Hilarious!! Take ownership CCP, just call it a change within the terms of service. Don't be a bunch of chickens and call it a "bug fix".
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Rinaldo Titano
Caldari Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2008.10.14 12:39:00 -
[1601]
Originally by: Simmith
Originally by: Proud American Because you are a producer I can see why you care more about money than your companies image or your customers.
Customer:
1. a person who purchases goods or services from another; buyer; patron.
Leech:
2. a person who clings to another for personal gain, esp. without giving anything in return, and usually with the implication or effect of exhausting the other's resources; parasite.
The proposed change gets rid of leeches, not customers. Which are you?
I see lot of peoples which here defending DEVS argue that this was free training and should be eliminated.
Agree
The most of the peoples agree with this and are not angry about this(like me) because like me never used this thing and never intend to use.
The problem is not changing rules, not changig prices, not changing the whole game...
THE PROBLEM IS BAD CARE OF CUSTOMERS AND LOT OF LIES
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cuculet
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Posted - 2008.10.14 12:39:00 -
[1602]
The EVE-online website is undergoing maintenance. We are sorry for any inconvenience caused.
i was thinking the patch is suposed to be tomorow...dmg ctrl?
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Ratio Legis
Slacker Industries
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Posted - 2008.10.14 12:39:00 -
[1603]
Originally by: Simmith
Customer:
1. a person who purchases goods or services from another; buyer; patron.
Leech:
2. a person who clings to another for personal gain, esp. without giving anything in return, and usually with the implication or effect of exhausting the other's resources; parasite.
The proposed change gets rid of leeches, not customers. Which are you?
A customer, definitely. Because the game mechanics as they are make sure I *do* give something in return, when I pay a subscription to reactivate the account to switch skills or actually use it, since none of us have alts just so we can capitalize on CCP's much-constrained database space. People are currently taking advantage of a helpful benefit, which is being removed. While nobody disputes CCP's ability to enforce this change, arguing that wanting to have use of the benefit is leeching is logically unsound. Arguing the change is somehow ethical is absurd.
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Commander Spectre
The Funkstars Guild
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Posted - 2008.10.14 12:41:00 -
[1604]
Originally by: Simmith
Originally by: Proud American Because you are a producer I can see why you care more about money than your companies image or your customers.
Customer:
1. a person who purchases goods or services from another; buyer; patron.
Leech:
2. a person who clings to another for personal gain, esp. without giving anything in return, and usually with the implication or effect of exhausting the other's resources; parasite.
The proposed change gets rid of leeches, not customers. Which are you?
Acually customers don't exsist anymore. They have been replaced by consumers.
Customer - A person who purchases goods and gets service from the seller. Someone that the seller wishes to return. A person with input that is treated with respect.
Consumer - A person that companies deal with just to get thier money then blows them off. Somoeone that is only as important as the amount of money that can be drained from them.
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Zinnn
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Posted - 2008.10.14 12:41:00 -
[1605]
Originally by: Janine Ramsey
Originally by: Dmian I only want to remember you all this:
Originally by: EULA, 10.E "New Releases of the Software" CCP may update, upgrade or otherwise enhance the Software at any time, in its sole discretion, without obligation to you.
Originally by: TOS CCP MAY FIND IT NECESSARY ON OCCASION TO MAKE CHANGES TO OR RESET CERTAIN PARAMETERS OF THE PERSISTENT GAME WORLD MECHANICS, INTERFACE OR FEATURES OF EVE ONLINE IN ORDER TO MAINTAIN GAME BALANCE AND ENHANCE PLAYABILITY OR PERFORMANCE FOR ITS SUBSCRIBERS. THESE CHANGES MAY AFFECT OR CAUSE SETBACKS FOR THE CHARACTERS YOUÆVE CREATED.
You've agreed to this terms. You should respect what you've agreed to.
they say its a bug - nope they advertised it and could simply say we change it , instead they lie
yet most of the people in this quote conveniently forget the one line in there right before the bold text, where it says TO ENHANCE PLAYABILITY. ... This does not enhance, this is worse than a nerf, this is an out and out feature elimination for a LOT of people I know. If everyone can do it, it doesn't unbalance the game. New people can do this too. I know a few new people that are really disappointed with this "featured packed patch"... We don't need no water let the M*******r burn, burn M**********r, burn - to quote bloodhound gang.
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Karina Mei
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.10.14 12:41:00 -
[1606]
I hardly ever post on the forums (or have that much time to read them to be honest) but after reading a fair number of the pages on this thread (eye strain anyone :( ) I felt I had to post something...
I've used ghost training in the past, when I had burn out from playing eye (12 hours of moving POS stuff round and other similar mind numbing tasks) and it just lacked the fun element for me, but mostly when RL has dictated that I don't have time to play. I've got a full time job and two young children, so time is a premium and so if RL doesn't allow me enough free time, I can't play end of story. At the moment I've got three accounts, two currently active and one ghost training (until the patch) BS 5. I only reactivated the first two accounts recently as their ghost training skills finished and I wanted to set new skills training, but I don't have the time to really play with these accounts. The whole reason for still carrying on playing was hopefully in the near future RL might give me the opportunity to actually use what I pay for, at which point I would have all accounts active (which has been the case in the past). Training in this way has at least given me a reason to keep coming back, until now... If this does go ahead why should I want to resubscribe in the short term when I can't play, the only reason was to set my next set of skills up ready for when the account went inactive again.
The best course of action for me at the moment is to either just quit entirely (and no you can't have my stuff, I'd rather split every stack up and see how many stations I could leave them in) or to move my two alts onto the account of my main and just keep that one active.
Net result:
3 accounts active for 2 months out of three (I tend to ghost train a 30 day ish skill) gives a total of 24 months of paid for subscription over the year (so 12 x 60 day time cards). Now if I move the other two alts (not including the transfer fee) to my main account and keep that subscribed it's 12 months paid subscription in a year.
12 x 60 day time cards or 6 x 60 day time cards
I know which one I'd rather have as a company on the receiving end of the cash.
If I could play all the time I wouldn't mind as the accounts would be making ISK as well as training but as RL stands at the moment...
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fecked
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Posted - 2008.10.14 12:42:00 -
[1607]
Originally by: Simmith
Originally by: Proud American Because you are a producer I can see why you care more about money than your companies image or your customers.
Customer:
1. a person who purchases goods or services from another; buyer; patron.
Leech:
2. a person who clings to another for personal gain, esp. without giving anything in return, and usually with the implication or effect of exhausting the other's resources; parasite.
The proposed change gets rid of leeches, not customers. Which are you?
A ghost trained account is only relevant when the player reactivates to then use those skills. Therefore only paying customers can benefit from ghost training not leeches.
This change really hits players with multiple accounts already paying multiple fee's. They are CCP's bread and butter. Annoying your core source of revenue in this manner when many are already looking for an excuse to mothball accounts through the credit crunch is mind blowingly stupid.
Question:- What is the Capital of Iceland?
- $4.76
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Total Disaster
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Posted - 2008.10.14 12:44:00 -
[1608]
gosh I need more popcorn
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chotaire
Caldari The Rising Stars Cosmic Anomalies
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Posted - 2008.10.14 12:44:00 -
[1609]
Originally by: Simmith
Originally by: Proud American Because you are a producer I can see why you care more about money than your companies image or your customers.
Customer:
1. a person who purchases goods or services from another; buyer; patron.
Leech:
2. a person who clings to another for personal gain, esp. without giving anything in return, and usually with the implication or effect of exhausting the other's resources; parasite.
The proposed change gets rid of leeches, not customers. Which are you?
Customer = a person who pays for two subscriptions because some skill takes 100 days to complete and there is no way to make it go quicker unlike in other MMOs.
Leech = a person with a real life who doesn't want to sit infront of the monitor waiting 100 days for a skill to complete and who thinks that paying to wait is a bit ******ed. Instead, he comes back after 100 days and pays for another subscription again in order to use the skill and/or set the next skill.
History = an alt that often generates money to CCP for being subscribed to skill up until it is ready for permanent use. These alts will probably be abandonned or moved to their mains, thus extra money generation from hardcore players comes to an end.
Wise choice, CCP! Not. And to all those CCP-compliant posters who think this is all good change: Who the hell are you? I pay for a minimum of 3 accounts and this change is a kick in the faces of everyone who generated extra income for CCP. And it is a kick in the face of everyone who recently joined the Power of 2. If you feel this is balancing, then maybe you are right... it will balance the amount of accounts paid for by a single customer, most probably 1 ;)
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Jonathan Wild
Amarr Royal Amarr Institute
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Posted - 2008.10.14 12:46:00 -
[1610]
I know this is a game. I know that Real Life(RL) is separate/different.
But, here is a real life comparison.
A friend and I were in the military service together. He and I had the same training. One day we were given an opportunity to go to an additional bit of training. I opted for the free training he didn't. I was sent to a week long training that took me out of the shop. He had to stay and work. I didn't have to work, but got the opportunity to train. The training gave me opportunities to do things he couldn't without the training.
Using this RL example CCP is basically removing the optional training opportunities from its player base. The claim that it "is too much for the DB" is a pile (a big steaming pile left by an Elephant in the room).
All I can say is thank goodness I trained Cap Ship 5 prior to the removal of my extra training options. I reactivated using a 60D GTC and will get JDC 5 during this period. That choice was made prior to this announcement (I'm 22% done already). So, not all of us "abuse" ghost training. I still use regular training for long skills. Removing ghost training will change what I'm going to focus on for this account.
It will also probably mean that I consolidate this character onto one of my other accounts... which sucks, since the purpose of this account is to fly a Rorqual in a gang of my accounts. I will see a reduction of income due to not being able to run as many accounts during a low sec mining operations.
Will I emo-rage quit? No. But I will consolidate my accounts as I will be satisfied with less skilled characters and fewer gang members when I run a solo-op.
Cheers!
-JW |
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Uoogla
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Posted - 2008.10.14 12:47:00 -
[1611]
Originally by: cuculet The EVE-online website is undergoing maintenance. We are sorry for any inconvenience caused.
i was thinking the patch is suposed to be tomorow...dmg ctrl?
How do you stop people from unsubscribing? Do maintenance on the account management webpage!
But seriously, I like this move. You have to pay for your skills to increase. I think it is also another hit to the shadow industry of isk and account sellers...and it could be a prerequisite to allow web-based or mobile skill changes...
I doubt that CCP did not weigh the up- and downsides of this decision carefully (although I have to admit I first thought it was an april's fool).
We'll see...
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Amaron Ghant
Caldari Pierre Vorvuden Corp
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Posted - 2008.10.14 12:48:00 -
[1612]
It's actually a move to reduce lag in Jita (If all the complainers threatening to quit actually quit)
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shuckstar
Gallente Hauling hogs
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Posted - 2008.10.14 12:49:00 -
[1613]
Originally by: Dmian
Originally by: Janine Ramsey they say its a bug - nope they advertised it and could simply say we change it , instead they lie
What they say is irrelevant. They can change the game as they see fit, without giving explanations.
Still makes them liers and greedy money grabbing bastards imo
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MR Oiso
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Posted - 2008.10.14 12:49:00 -
[1614]
I forgot something in my first post. some people are saying things like.
"OOhhh why are you getting exitetd because of this - cant understand why are you thinking you can get something 4 free ...."
like this: bla bla....sounds like the kids from runescape or whatever that game is called who want it free because they're moms wont pay the second or third account, as to us working folks seem to be ok as we already pay the extra alts..... bla bla
It doesn't make any difference how is posting or what his purpose is. The Thing is that Players are customers who are paying money and in the past they decidet to pay that money for a thing they will not have any longer.
CCP undertook a service to there customers and now they try to cancel that service but they whant to have the same money for this. - This will not be a good idea.
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Janine Ramsey
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Posted - 2008.10.14 12:49:00 -
[1615]
wait, in 2 months we need to kill rats to get xp and then can choose where to use the xp
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WaiKin Beldar
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Posted - 2008.10.14 12:51:00 -
[1616]
Edited by: WaiKin Beldar on 14/10/2008 12:51:24
Originally by: Amaron Ghant
Originally by: WaiKin Beldar
Ghost training is a unique feature that gives me the option to gain SPs (=ability of doing new or better things in this game)if, for instance, I have to focus my time to other chars,stay away in RL from EVE for long periods, or just chilling out for really long skill times.
Very bad move. Worst strategy.
translation. I like the fact that I can skill for free and spend that subscription money on something else
Right. In the same way I have 3 chars available per account right now. Probably I will be really playing seriously with only one, but I like that feature, that is the way I started to play and would be really ****ed off of having less and less features every time CCP is deciding about making me pay more for what I originally signed for in my contract. They have the right to rise the prices and i have the right to complain about those rises without a sensible explanation, not the original one.
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chotaire
Caldari The Rising Stars Cosmic Anomalies
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Posted - 2008.10.14 12:51:00 -
[1617]
Originally by: Amaron Ghant It's actually a move to reduce lag in Jita (If all the complainers threatening to quit actually quit)
Hey you troll, how do ghost trainers end up in Jita? You could just aswell delete your post.
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Arrs Grazznic
Poena Executive Solutions
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Posted - 2008.10.14 12:51:00 -
[1618]
Originally by: fecked Question:- What is the Capital of Iceland? - $4.76
I LOL'd
Cheers, Arrs
Quote: Is it just me who says "what can I do in real life: drink beer; walk around; put on clothes; fly a spaceship firing at other spaceships" and then use that to choose what I do on the internet?
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Stormaar
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.10.14 12:51:00 -
[1619]
Originally by: Janine Ramsey wait, in 2 months we need to kill rats to get xp and then can choose where to use the xp
no. u just kill ur time and wait. ----- Customizable UI / internal API for mods/addons |
Zinnn
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Posted - 2008.10.14 12:51:00 -
[1620]
oogla if you want to hit isk sellers, kill macro miners. Don't give BS reasons. Seriously I don't understand how shadow training has to do with isk sellers. Isk sellers need active accounts to make isk, not inactive accounts.
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Viermut
Filthy Scum
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Posted - 2008.10.14 12:52:00 -
[1621]
What I find really funny is that they see a spike after 5 years...but no one noticed the macro miner spikes>? the lag spikes? the ghost trainer macro's running?
Come on guys, its a money grab and you know it.
If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck... It's propably a duck.
My mum is so fat BoB claimed her as a region... |
Grarr Dexx
Amarr The Cosa Nostra La Cosa Nostra Alliance
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Posted - 2008.10.14 12:52:00 -
[1622]
Edited by: Grarr Dexx on 14/10/2008 12:53:12 Give 'em a hand and they'll take an arm. You complied to the terms of service and the end user license agreement, get on with it or quit, I could use me some stuffs
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Dave LoveSlave
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Posted - 2008.10.14 12:53:00 -
[1623]
It amazes me how this can go from being offered up as a feature to being discredited as a bug. Make up your mind. You must really think we have no reading comprehension.
I have more accounts than a sane person should, but that's my choice, and an issue between myself and the people I buy GTCs from.
That said, CCP will go from getting money from me for all of my accounts two thirds of the time, to getting money from one third of my accounts all of the time. And, trust me, there's a massive difference involved.
I've been threatening (albeit to myself) to tone down my obsession with Eve altogether and do the other things I hafve wanted to for months, if not years.
This might just be the proverbial straw/camel's back situation.
gj.
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Zomzom
Gallente Divinity Within
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Posted - 2008.10.14 12:54:00 -
[1624]
I remember when CCP China was set up and the dev blogs then concerning the players on the Chinese server being unable to "Ghost Train" and that this was never going to be brought into play on tranquility. Well here it is, it was always regarded as a feature unique to the game, promoted by CCP as such and an attraction to many people who had either tired of the game through burn out, or needed to attend to RL stuff or were just hard up temporarily. I believe it is totally disingenuous of CCP to now state that this is a bug. If they wish to remove a much vaunted and promoted feature then they should give at least 3 months notice and contact all existing accounts including those inactive of course.
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Hades In'aMiniskirt
30 ounces
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Posted - 2008.10.14 12:55:00 -
[1625]
than at least give us SKILL QUEING, ffs we are paying for it anyway
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Wet Ferret
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Posted - 2008.10.14 12:55:00 -
[1626]
Edited by: Wet Ferret on 14/10/2008 12:55:55 250,000 active accounts? Or whatever the hell it is now...
Yet 30k players online at peak times, many of which are already alts / mostly-afk market characters.
You'd think CCP would be happy that they are getting six months worth of subscription payments out of a character that likely won't be played for more than a few minutes every couple of months during a year. Guess not But, yeah. These forums seriously need some indicator that the post has ended and the sig has started.
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Lord Fitz
Project Amargosa
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Posted - 2008.10.14 12:56:00 -
[1627]
Next month they will introduce it so you only train when logged out. To reduce the load on the servers of course.
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Konosbe
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Posted - 2008.10.14 12:56:00 -
[1628]
Well then!
Thats -2 Accounts for CCP from my side. I'll keep my third one for the happy mission grinding if iam bored by other games again.
Way to go, CCP! Now that's a kick in the nuts for the customers. And a very stupid excuse as well - sometimes it really takes CCP ages to fix a 'bug', but this has always been this way, and it's been a feature, not a bug.
No, no one can have my stuff. I'll send it all to my other account :P
- K
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Lord Fitz
Project Amargosa
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Posted - 2008.10.14 12:57:00 -
[1629]
Doesn't this give more credence to the crowd that want to be reimbursed for lost training over extended downtimes, I mean, before we were supposedly paying for the right to maybe be allowed to login, now they're saying it's the right to be training something ?
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Leilla Mac
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.10.14 12:58:00 -
[1630]
What are the odds on this "bug fix" borking the skill training continuing during DT. How many fixes have worked as intended without being pushed onto a test server first. I'd hope CCP have got this code worked out properly or the forums are likely to explode and a large maintenance bill will ensue. I sense a large LOL in the pipeline.
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fcydo
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Posted - 2008.10.14 12:58:00 -
[1631]
If you, CCP, need money -- say so, make it clear and we will help.
There are more intelligent ways of making some buck on your playerbase, for intance, introduce some charity stations where you can donate money and get some unique stuff (snowball launchers, or something like that -- cool useless stuff that you cannot buy on market). Or paint shop where you can get something cool paints on your ships, like: "EVE thanks you", or etc. Or even some unique storyline missions.
I do thing ghost training is good feature. I never used it, but it is very economic for long skills. It do not generate payload on server, there is virtually no lag from ghosts.
And still, I vote for "one account per one gamer". Just do something about cyno.
It's too reckless to announce such big changes in 2 days. Being rude and silent -- won't give you any credit. I completly undestand your motivation, but your implementation is just dirty and awful.
Many people take SP very personally. Keep it in mind.
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FalconHawk
Amarr Shadow Rebellion
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Posted - 2008.10.14 13:00:00 -
[1632]
first it was an unfair advantage ...and created a 49 page shitstorm then it was a bug ... and is already up to a 53 page shitstorm
whatever u post next CCP pls think about it before
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Zinnn
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Posted - 2008.10.14 13:00:00 -
[1633]
I hope CCP has the balls to go through with this and see in 6 months time how this has affected their bottom line. Why not just eliminate multi-accounts while you're at it too. Most games consider multi-accounts to be illegal.
CCP, make it fair to everyone by allowing only one person an account, these multiple accounts are killing us! IT'S ONLY FAIR FOR THE SAKE OF BALANCE!!! .. Seriously, do it, because that's just as absurd as what you're proposing.
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Kyoudai Ichata
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Posted - 2008.10.14 13:00:00 -
[1634]
Originally by: Hades In'aMiniskirt than at least give us SKILL QUEING, ffs we are paying for it anyway
qft, I'm glad I cancelled both my accounts.
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Viermut
Filthy Scum
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Posted - 2008.10.14 13:01:00 -
[1635]
Originally by: Konosbe Well then!
Thats -2 Accounts for CCP from my side. I'll keep my third one for the happy mission grinding if iam bored by other games again.
Way to go, CCP! Now that's a kick in the nuts for the customers. And a very stupid excuse as well - sometimes it really takes CCP ages to fix a 'bug', but this has always been this way, and it's been a feature, not a bug.
No, no one can have my stuff. I'll send it all to my other account :P
- K
Kono, I 100% agree...I have 4 accounts and build toons for resale for isk...at this point I'm downsizing as well...f**k em', they can have my one account. Maybe I can put 3 together into one account, 1 for pirating, one for missioning and hauling and one for be'ing the ho I always wanted to be.
My mum is so fat BoB claimed her as a region... |
Lerand Gaunt
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Posted - 2008.10.14 13:01:00 -
[1636]
I just love taste of EMO tears in the morning...
I find it really funny when people moan about actually having to pay to play this game (either in real money or with isk). It is true that some high end level 5 skills are "long" to train up but if it is really that bad then just choose do something else that does not require those skills. Or just buy 2 GTC's, start training and have your break.
And for the next 50 flamers / whiners: yes, I am a carebear who has yet to see any 0.0 content. So? I have multiple accounts, just as you do. I just choose to keep them active. If you can afford (multiple) fully fitted Motherships, I see the statement "I can't afford to buy GTC's" really lame.
True, GTC prices have gone up (in some occations to insane prices) but if you buy them at those prices, who is the idiot? The guy (gold-digger) who sells them or the guy buying them?
How come you yourselves are incapable of understanding the statements you use when other people whine about XXX prices? Supply and demand. Ring any bells?
PS. Now We can really start demanding on those skill training que's as there is no reason left not to have them.
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Janine Ramsey
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Posted - 2008.10.14 13:01:00 -
[1637]
nice move with unanounced maintenace time in the account managment
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Ratio Legis
Slacker Industries
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Posted - 2008.10.14 13:01:00 -
[1638]
Originally by: Uoogla But seriously, I like this move. You have to pay for your skills to increase.
Why not take it to its logical conclusion then and allow people to buy skill points for real money? Or is that not in line with the notion of Eve providing a level playing field foe everyone regardless of their RL status?
The game is designed so that it hogs real time for training and in-game time for logistics much more than any other MMO out there - hence the benefit of having alts in Eve is much greater than in any other MMO. On the other hand, a single person can never utilize multiple accounts to their fullest, they are usually needed only for key activities and then are left unused. Taxing secondary accounts as primary ones has so far been offset by the availability of ghost training, but once that's gone the incentive to support alts will be reduced for just about everyone out there. I do not think it's fair to have us pay full price for a service that's designed so we cannot utilize it to the full potential.
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Helios vector
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Posted - 2008.10.14 13:02:00 -
[1639]
Originally by: Simmith
Originally by: Proud American Because you are a producer I can see why you care more about money than your companies image or your customers.
Customer:
1. a person who purchases goods or services from another; buyer; patron.
Leech:
2. a person who clings to another for personal gain, esp. without giving anything in return, and usually with the implication or effect of exhausting the other's resources; parasite.
The proposed change gets rid of leeches, not customers. Which are you?
well since even ghosts have to subscribe every now and then to set a skill, thereis no such thing as a leech in this game since we all have to pay.
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Grarr Dexx
Amarr The Cosa Nostra La Cosa Nostra Alliance
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Posted - 2008.10.14 13:03:00 -
[1640]
Originally by: Ratio Legis
Originally by: Uoogla But seriously, I like this move. You have to pay for your skills to increase.
Why not take it to its logical conclusion then and allow people to buy skill points for real money? Or is that not in line with the notion of Eve providing a level playing field foe everyone regardless of their RL status?
The game is designed so that it hogs real time for training and in-game time for logistics much more than any other MMO out there - hence the benefit of having alts in Eve is much greater than in any other MMO. On the other hand, a single person can never utilize multiple accounts to their fullest, they are usually needed only for key activities and then are left unused. Taxing secondary accounts as primary ones has so far been offset by the availability of ghost training, but once that's gone the incentive to support alts will be reduced for just about everyone out there. I do not think it's fair to have us pay full price for a service that's designed so we cannot utilize it to the full potential.
You really are a slacker, eh?
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Hixxy
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Posted - 2008.10.14 13:03:00 -
[1641]
Originally by: Kyoudai Ichata
Originally by: Hades In'aMiniskirt than at least give us SKILL QUEING, ffs we are paying for it anyway
qft, I'm glad I cancelled both my accounts.
how? all im getting is website under maintainance when i try to log in.
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Siona Windweaver
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Posted - 2008.10.14 13:04:00 -
[1642]
Originally by: Janine Ramsey nice move with unanounced maintenace time in the account managment
QFT
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Ai Sakura
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Posted - 2008.10.14 13:06:00 -
[1643]
It wasnt even a bug since youve referenced it in Dev Blogs saying that:
Serenity has no Ghost training and that Tranquility could be the same at the flick of a switch but you didnt want to change it at the time..
CCP You are full of lies tbh and it doesnt wash..
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Gedhay
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Posted - 2008.10.14 13:06:00 -
[1644]
I think that "the bug" is in fact a feature. Why disable the "gost training" when it takes forever to train something like "carrier V". The one affected by this are the old players, those that have a "long skill" in training. Why ccp did not change the dificulty of the skill??. If I could train "titan V" in 20-30 days, I woldn't disable my account at all. I do that because I have no patience to wait for the skill to end. And I do that to prevent me from changing the skill with something else. BTW, why it's considered a bug "ghost training" and not be able to plan in advance a second skill is not?? If CCP want something to do, I think this will be a primary. I'm not pleased with waking up in the middle of the night to change my skill.
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Helios vector
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Posted - 2008.10.14 13:07:00 -
[1645]
the only way this "bug" fix makes it any fairer, is making a class division between players. Only well of people who have the money to keep this up are allowed to continue. this really is capitalism at is highest point.
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Signaldog
Gallente Cloak and Daggers
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Posted - 2008.10.14 13:07:00 -
[1646]
I think you're all just a bunch of whiners!!!! I agree that CCP should come out straight with it, and I'll not argue that the timing sucks as well, but COME ON PEOPLE!!!!
Ghost training only affects accounts that are INACTIVE...put it in a Role Play perspective (this is a MMORPG right?)...if you are not paying for your account, your character is effectivly "frozen"...you don't lose anything, you just don't gain anything. Simple enough.
I have two (2) accounts and I will continue to pay and play those two accounts (both with 3 characters apiece) to my hearts content.
Ghost training is a hack and needed to be pulled long ago!! CCP screwed the pooch on how they went about it, but welcome to the REAL WORLD where business is business and games are for people who have time to do the things they want to do...stop confusing the GAME of EvE with the business of RUNNING the game of EvE.
Just my 2 iskies.
READ MY SALVAGER THREAD HERE!!!!
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Rramar Claime
Amarr Task Force Zener Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2008.10.14 13:08:00 -
[1647]
Originally by: Dmian I only want to remember you all this:
Originally by: EULA, 10.E "New Releases of the Software" CCP may update, upgrade or otherwise enhance the Software at any time, in its sole discretion, without obligation to you.
Originally by: TOS CCP MAY FIND IT NECESSARY ON OCCASION TO MAKE CHANGES TO OR RESET CERTAIN PARAMETERS OF THE PERSISTENT GAME WORLD MECHANICS, INTERFACE OR FEATURES OF EVE ONLINE IN ORDER TO MAINTAIN GAME BALANCE AND ENHANCE PLAYABILITY OR PERFORMANCE FOR ITS SUBSCRIBERS. THESE CHANGES MAY AFFECT OR CAUSE SETBACKS FOR THE CHARACTERS YOUÆVE CREATED.
You've agreed to this terms. You should respect what you've agreed to.
Oh lol. And if they write in the eula, IF you agree to these terms you have to marry your brother at the next monday, you just have to respect and do it right? Afterall its the eula. I've got a light million dollar bet, that we would all still be playing eve if they had that line hidden in that document noone reads. No m8 it doesnt work like that.
"I cherish the memories of a question my grandson asked me the other day, when he said; 'Grandpa, were you a hero in the war?' Grandpa said, 'No, but I served in a company of heroes." |
Elayer
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Posted - 2008.10.14 13:08:00 -
[1648]
Shame this has happened i have been actively subscribing for some time and was just about to take a break and train battle ship 5. sorry to say this but I wont be carrying on my subscription.
i play one other mmo besides eve and it was nice to be able to jump between the two without worrying about paying for eve when i wasnt playing, but my character still developing.
The way eve skills are is unique and with the current change i wont be resubbing after my sub ends on the 24th.
Moneys tight for everyone not just CCP, there are other ways to generate extra income. Only time will tell how this decision will effect eve.
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Vargo Hoat
Caldari State Protectorate
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Posted - 2008.10.14 13:09:00 -
[1649]
I am just fascinated by the number of people who are giving up playing with some or all of their accounts because of this. How often does ghost training occur in reality? How often do you really need to train a 40 day skill? You are practically losing $15 (if subscribed on a monthly basis) over a course of a FEW YEARS (unless you're ghost training characters for sale!) with any normal character, and you are whining about that?
I thought the player base is much more mature than this (or maybe it's always immature players whining?). I approve this because you can't have any progress if not playing (and paying) in any other game. Hell, tell me another game where your character progresses in any way while not playing!
While this might have been a wrong move from CCP it's still right given that we receive at least the following:
- Proper notification of subscription ending (if playing with GTCs)
- Proper notification that the skill might not be finished before the end of subscription period when setting a new skill to train
- Explanation why was it stated as a feature in the guide and later called a bug
- Extend the grace period before implementing this feature
Do you want a Caldari Marauder? Contact me for a BPC! |
Rufus Britton
Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse The ENTITY.
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Posted - 2008.10.14 13:09:00 -
[1650]
It kind of sucks if you're in the military and get stuck on deployment. I'm off to training soon and won't have internet access for 7 weeks and was planning on partially relying on ghost training.
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Grarr Dexx
Amarr The Cosa Nostra La Cosa Nostra Alliance
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Posted - 2008.10.14 13:10:00 -
[1651]
Originally by: Gedhay I think that "the bug" is in fact a feature. Why disable the "gost training" when it takes forever to train something like "carrier V". The one affected by this are the old players, those that have a "long skill" in training. Why ccp did not change the dificulty of the skill??. If I could train "titan V" in 20-30 days, I woldn't disable my account at all. I do that because I have no patience to wait for the skill to end. And I do that to prevent me from changing the skill with something else. BTW, why it's considered a bug "ghost training" and not be able to plan in advance a second skill is not?? If CCP want something to do, I think this will be a primary. I'm not pleased with waking up in the middle of the night to change my skill.
Because every noob should start with carrier V trained right off the bat, am I right?
Eve's skillpoint and skill level system was designed that if you wanted to specialize, it was going to cost you time. Now you can't avoid it anymore.
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Maria Huana
Caldari 4th FLEET of REDARMY Red Army Alliance
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Posted - 2008.10.14 13:11:00 -
[1652]
damn, over 100 pages and no reaction from CCP. no even answer. Nice customer support btw
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Somealt Ofmine
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Posted - 2008.10.14 13:12:00 -
[1653]
Edited by: Somealt Ofmine on 14/10/2008 13:12:08
Some of the posts in this thread are just amazing. Especially the ones that complain about how unfair this is to people with a "real life". Even after this change, Eve is by far the friendliest MMO to those with a "real life". It's why I have played for 5 years, and will continue to.
Yanno, in other MMOs, you actually have to play an alt in order to skill it up? Wow, what a concept.
While eve is just about the friendliest to those of us who have a "real life", it's also just about the friendliest to the "hard cores" who don't. Pay for your game time with isk, anyone? I can't think of a single other major MMO where you can do that without risking getting banned.
Come on folks. They saw that alt farming was getting out of hand, so they plugged it. Long term, it'll probably be revenue neutral, but good for the game. You've got to know that CCP is pretty much over the "if you do this I'll quit" emo-rants. If everyone who ever said that since I've been playing actually did, you'd have to go 30 jumps in the game to find another player.
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Helios vector
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Posted - 2008.10.14 13:13:00 -
[1654]
Edited by: Helios vector on 14/10/2008 13:14:12
Originally by: Signaldog I think you're all just a bunch of whiners!!!! I agree that CCP should come out straight with it, and I'll not argue that the timing sucks as well, but COME ON PEOPLE!!!!
Ghost training only affects accounts that are INACTIVE...put it in a Role Play perspective (this is a MMORPG right?)...if you are not paying for your account, your character is effectivly "frozen"...you don't lose anything, you just don't gain anything. Simple enough.
I have two (2) accounts and I will continue to pay and play those two accounts (both with 3 characters apiece) to my hearts content.
Ghost training is a hack and needed to be pulled long ago!! CCP screwed the pooch on how they went about it, but welcome to the REAL WORLD where business is business and games are for people who have time to do the things they want to do...stop confusing the GAME of EvE with the business of RUNNING the game of EvE.
Just my 2 iskies.
watch you tongue little boy. This game is not comparable to other MMOs because its not your ordinary grinder where you play for an hour and lvl up like in WoW. in ever you go for weeks and may not even finish "leveling up" a skill. skrew you and screw you CCP
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Howard Atkins
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Posted - 2008.10.14 13:14:00 -
[1655]
Either -2 accounts, or my demands are met (yes, we can play this both ways. Lets not forget: Customer is King!):
* I want to be able to train all my chars on my ACTIVE account on the same time. Iam paying for it anyway and can only use 1 at a time as well.
* I want skill queuing. Its a pain in the arse to skill a bunch of skills from 1 - 2 by manually switching. I consider this a bug, get it fixed.
Do this, and i might forgive CCP this crap with ghost skilling suddenly being declared as a bug, while in fact it was a feature that - in the first place - made people to buy their second and third accounts (and, which you can read right here, makes them give those accounts up).
No more love for CCP from me.
Angry cat is angry.
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Ratio Legis
Slacker Industries
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Posted - 2008.10.14 13:14:00 -
[1656]
Originally by: Grarr Dexx
Because every noob should start with carrier V trained right off the bat, am I right?
Eve's skillpoint and skill level system was designed that if you wanted to specialize, it was going to cost you time. Now you can't avoid it anymore.
Actually in the short term the effect will be the opposite. People will want to get rid of their unsupportable alts, and with the rise of supply the prices will drop. It will be much easier to get a char with Carrier V for a noob. Also, you can avoid spending time just as you used to - nothing has changed except the fact you need to pay for not using your alt while it's training.
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Abrazzar
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Posted - 2008.10.14 13:15:00 -
[1657]
Originally by: Rufus Britton It kind of sucks if you're in the military and get stuck on deployment. I'm off to training soon and won't have internet access for 7 weeks and was planning on partially relying on ghost training.
That's what you get for joining the military: You not only give up your freedom and your live, you also give up your character training. Maybe you should either choose another occupation or just buy a GTC to keep your account running.
-------- Ideas for: Mining
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Karina Mei
Caldari
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 13:15:00 -
[1658]
The biggest issue with all of this is the way it's been done, blaming it on balancing and calling it a bug etc... Just plain fail. When will CCP realise that no matter how they spin doctor things, lying in this fashion will always be seen through.
Can we have the following balancing performed at the same time...
1) Remove GTC for ISK (as this unfairly affects people that can't play as much) 2) Remove macro miners - Search the character database for characters with stupid names (eg. nnhgyhhkk) and ban/deactivate them. How hard could this be, fair enough you could affect a few normal players this way, but if they've used a name like that.... 3) Remove RP generation on inactive accounts 4) Remove market orders from inactive accounts
All these affect game balance just as much as the ghost training one, which still requires the inactive character to be subscribed to make use of the new skill etc.
At the end of the day, ghost training allows you to traing a skill that you still need to be ingame to use and also to earn the ISK to buy (for more expensive skills at least) and so the people that play all the time are still training and earning the ISK to buy the skills/ships.
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Gedhay
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 13:17:00 -
[1659]
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I think that "the bug" is in fact a feature. Why disable the "gost training" when it takes forever to train something like "carrier V". The one affected by this are the old players, those that have a "long skill" in training. Why ccp did not change the dificulty of the skill??. If I could train "titan V" in 20-30 days, I woldn't disable my account at all. I do that because I have no patience to wait for the skill to end. And I do that to prevent me from changing the skill with something else. BTW, why it's considered a bug "ghost training" and not be able to plan in advance a second skill is not?? If CCP want something to do, I think this will be a primary. I'm not pleased with waking up in the middle of the night to change my skill. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Because every noob should start with carrier V trained right off the bat, am I right?
Eve's skillpoint and skill level system was designed that if you wanted to specialize, it was going to cost you time. Now you can't avoid it anymore.
_________________________________________________________________________________________
If u played eve and I think U did, U will know what I meant. It's not that U should start with "carrier V", It's the time U have to wait till It's done. I have no problem with that, just I'm not good at waiting!!!
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Koetsu
MilK Inc.
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Posted - 2008.10.14 13:17:00 -
[1660]
CCP - COD bluntforce trauma to customerservice
And i thought a few hundred millions of years made humans improve... |
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Lerand Gaunt
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 13:18:00 -
[1661]
Originally by: Howard Atkins Either -2 accounts, or my demands are met (yes, we can play this both ways. Lets not forget: Customer is King!):
* I want to be able to train all my chars on my ACTIVE account on the same time. Iam paying for it anyway and can only use 1 at a time as well.
* I want skill queuing. Its a pain in the arse to skill a bunch of skills from 1 - 2 by manually switching. I consider this a bug, get it fixed.
Do this, and i might forgive CCP this crap with ghost skilling suddenly being declared as a bug, while in fact it was a feature that - in the first place - made people to buy their second and third accounts (and, which you can read right here, makes them give those accounts up).
No more love for CCP from me. Angry cat is angry.
Bye, bye. We are happy to see you leave. One less 10-year-old forum whiner...
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Andrei Vassaliev
Altera Odyssea Tau Ceti Federation
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Posted - 2008.10.14 13:19:00 -
[1662]
The #1 rule of EvE: don't subscribe what you can't afford to pay.
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Grarr Dexx
Amarr The Cosa Nostra La Cosa Nostra Alliance
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Posted - 2008.10.14 13:19:00 -
[1663]
Originally by: Gedhay -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I think that "the bug" is in fact a feature. Why disable the "gost training" when it takes forever to train something like "carrier V". The one affected by this are the old players, those that have a "long skill" in training. Why ccp did not change the dificulty of the skill??. If I could train "titan V" in 20-30 days, I woldn't disable my account at all. I do that because I have no patience to wait for the skill to end. And I do that to prevent me from changing the skill with something else. BTW, why it's considered a bug "ghost training" and not be able to plan in advance a second skill is not?? If CCP want something to do, I think this will be a primary. I'm not pleased with waking up in the middle of the night to change my skill. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Because every noob should start with carrier V trained right off the bat, am I right?
Eve's skillpoint and skill level system was designed that if you wanted to specialize, it was going to cost you time. Now you can't avoid it anymore.
_________________________________________________________________________________________
If u played eve and I think U did, U will know what I meant. It's not that U should start with "carrier V", It's the time U have to wait till It's done. I have no problem with that, just I'm not good at waiting!!!
Let's blame CCP then! Oh wait, you beat me to it.
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Liranan
M'8'S Frontal Impact
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Posted - 2008.10.14 13:20:00 -
[1664]
Edited by: Liranan on 14/10/2008 13:22:55
Originally by: Rramar Claime
Originally by: Dmian I only want to remember you all this:
Originally by: EULA, 10.E "New Releases of the Software" CCP may update, upgrade or otherwise enhance the Software at any time, in its sole discretion, without obligation to you.
Originally by: TOS CCP MAY FIND IT NECESSARY ON OCCASION TO MAKE CHANGES TO OR RESET CERTAIN PARAMETERS OF THE PERSISTENT GAME WORLD MECHANICS, INTERFACE OR FEATURES OF EVE ONLINE IN ORDER TO MAINTAIN GAME BALANCE AND ENHANCE PLAYABILITY OR PERFORMANCE FOR ITS SUBSCRIBERS. THESE CHANGES MAY AFFECT OR CAUSE SETBACKS FOR THE CHARACTERS YOUÆVE CREATED.
You've agreed to this terms. You should respect what you've agreed to.
Oh lol. And if they write in the eula, IF you agree to these terms you have to marry your brother at the next monday, you just have to respect and do it right? Afterall its the eula. I've got a light million dollar bet, that we would all still be playing eve if they had that line hidden in that document noone reads. No m8 it doesnt work like that.
LIES!! The EULA says you will put everything you own in CCP's name, you will divorce your wife and give her and your children to CCP, so they can be trained as toilet cleaners. Then you will borrow as much money as you can and put that into CCP's account too. You will then sign a confession accepting the fact that sky is blue and grass is green, that CCP is God, that God doesn't exist and that your mother is a man. You will then accept euthanasia. It doesn't work like this? PHAIL! The EULA says so!
DMian and Tos, you're fools. Farjung is my God
You people need to open your eyes and read threads before you mindlessly spam the New Thread link. |
Todoshi
Caldari Caldari Logistics and Supplies
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Posted - 2008.10.14 13:20:00 -
[1665]
What are the chances that a dev can get his ass from hiding and actuly reply to the playerbase or are they all as gutless as it would seem so far?
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Sahara Eternity
Amarr Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2008.10.14 13:21:00 -
[1666]
Originally by: Grarr Dexx Because every noob should start with carrier V trained right off the bat, am I right?
Eve's skillpoint and skill level system was designed that if you wanted to specialize, it was going to cost you time. Now you can't avoid it anymore.
Well what you are saying is that you actualy have to "pay to wait" at least 8 - 12 months to board a cap ship (depending on the atributes of course - it cold take a lot longer if you want to use it close to decent), right? Just pay and watch the "progress bar" move a nanometer a day huh?
The traning system was designed to take time - especialy to kepp the dollars/euros come to them, this is why it costs you about 120 bucks to board a carrier, this is why it costs you about 360 bucks to board a mothership ... and the list can go on. I'm not saying that SP's are free but think about it, every one that is "ghost training" returns, and pays sooner or later.
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VLAD DRACU
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Posted - 2008.10.14 13:22:00 -
[1667]
Originally by: Andrei Vassaliev The #1 rule of EvE: don't resubscribe what you can't afford to pay.
fixed
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Lothris Andastar
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 13:24:00 -
[1668]
Originally by: Todoshi What are the chances that a dev can get his ass from hiding and actuly reply to the playerbase or are they all as gutless as it would seem so far?
No they are actually off working.
They dont need to reply to you.
They are canceling ghost training and if you dont like it, quit. Noone will miss you least of all the EvE Devs
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Helios vector
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 13:24:00 -
[1669]
Originally by: Sahara Eternity
Originally by: Grarr Dexx Because every noob should start with carrier V trained right off the bat, am I right?
Eve's skillpoint and skill level system was designed that if you wanted to specialize, it was going to cost you time. Now you can't avoid it anymore.
Well what you are saying is that you actualy have to "pay to wait" at least 8 - 12 months to board a cap ship (depending on the atributes of course - it cold take a lot longer if you want to use it close to decent), right? Just pay and watch the "progress bar" move a nanometer a day huh?
The traning system was designed to take time - especialy to kepp the dollars/euros come to them, this is why it costs you about 120 bucks to board a carrier, this is why it costs you about 360 bucks to board a mothership ... and the list can go on. I'm not saying that SP's are free but think about it, every one that is "ghost training" returns, and pays sooner or later.
so, so true. thanks you
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Total Disaster
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 13:24:00 -
[1670]
they should not allowed inactive accounts to post on forums too since they are no playerbase anyway
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Helios vector
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 13:26:00 -
[1671]
Originally by: Lothris Andastar
Originally by: Todoshi What are the chances that a dev can get his ass from hiding and actuly reply to the playerbase or are they all as gutless as it would seem so far?
No they are actually off working.
They dont need to reply to you.
They are canceling ghost training and if you dont like it, quit. Noone will miss you least of all the EvE Devs
Oh i think many of you will miss us. CCP said themselves that an "Avalanche" of people are doing this. I wouldnt be surprised if the player count drops by over 100,000 players in the next 3 months.
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Gunner
The Collective Against ALL Authorities
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 13:26:00 -
[1672]
Dear CCP,
Please make character transfers from one account to the other free of charge, so I can consolidate my accounts to 2 active ones. The others are at your loss unfortunatly.
Thank you. *** 2007.10.06 R.I.P. Hatuk my friend.
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Karina Mei
Caldari
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 13:26:00 -
[1673]
Originally by: Lerand Gaunt
True, GTC prices have gone up (in some occations to insane prices) but if you buy them at those prices, who is the idiot? The guy (gold-digger) who sells them or the guy buying them?
How come you yourselves are incapable of understanding the statements you use when other people whine about XXX prices? Supply and demand. Ring any bells?
Another reason for the increase in the ISK price for GTC could be down to macro miners as well! At the end of the day, they make enough ISK to buy them at whatever price they get put on at, it's easy ISK for them. So while there are macro miners in the game, the GTC could very well stay as high (if not higher) than it is now.
Welcome to Macro Mining Online :(
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ArmyOfMe
Developmental Neogenics Amalgamated
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 13:26:00 -
[1674]
Originally by: Vargo Hoat How often do you really need to train a 40 day skill?
ive never ghost trained, but to answer you question the answer is that its starting to happen quite often.
at least the 30+ day skills happens all the ****ing time now
Originally by: deadmaus
Because by the time we had calmed Plague down after he heard BoB were back in the vicinity it was too late to do anything |
Grarr Dexx
Amarr The Cosa Nostra La Cosa Nostra Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 13:26:00 -
[1675]
Edited by: Grarr Dexx on 14/10/2008 13:27:27
Originally by: Helios vector
Originally by: Sahara Eternity
Originally by: Grarr Dexx Because every noob should start with carrier V trained right off the bat, am I right?
Eve's skillpoint and skill level system was designed that if you wanted to specialize, it was going to cost you time. Now you can't avoid it anymore.
Well what you are saying is that you actualy have to "pay to wait" at least 8 - 12 months to board a cap ship (depending on the atributes of course - it cold take a lot longer if you want to use it close to decent), right? Just pay and watch the "progress bar" move a nanometer a day huh?
The traning system was designed to take time - especialy to kepp the dollars/euros come to them, this is why it costs you about 120 bucks to board a carrier, this is why it costs you about 360 bucks to board a mothership ... and the list can go on. I'm not saying that SP's are free but think about it, every one that is "ghost training" returns, and pays sooner or later.
so, so true. thanks you
Stay on Carrier 4 then, and fit a drone control unit. Nobody is forcing you to train this insane skill to five, and if they are, I think it's time for a change of scenery!
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Janine Ramsey
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 13:26:00 -
[1676]
Originally by: Total Disaster they should not allowed inactive accounts to post on forums too since they are no playerbase anyway
noob u cant do that anyway
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Azami Hanzo
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 13:26:00 -
[1677]
Trying to minimize the damage I logged on to try and transfer my chars to avoid getting billed again, just to be met by "The EVE-online website is undergoing maintenance. We are sorry for any inconvenience caused."
Nice move CCP!
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Total Disaster
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 13:28:00 -
[1678]
Originally by: Janine Ramsey
Originally by: Total Disaster they should not allowed inactive accounts to post on forums too since they are no playerbase anyway
noob u cant do that anyway
good to know lol, thanks
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Todoshi
Caldari Caldari Logistics and Supplies
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 13:28:00 -
[1679]
anyone else notice that all of a sudden the accounts section of the website is down.
Nice move now ccp really do look like a bunch of liars.
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Grarr Dexx
Amarr The Cosa Nostra La Cosa Nostra Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 13:29:00 -
[1680]
Originally by: Todoshi anyone else notice that all of a sudden the accounts section of the website is down.
Nice move now ccp really do look like a bunch of liars.
Good job, you're only on the third page since it was noticed.
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Karina Mei
Caldari
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 13:29:00 -
[1681]
Originally by: ArmyOfMe
Originally by: Vargo Hoat How often do you really need to train a 40 day skill?
ive never ghost trained, but to answer you question the answer is that its starting to happen quite often.
at least the 30+ day skills happens all the ****ing time now
How very true.. :(
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Doonoo Boonoo
Amarr
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Posted - 2008.10.14 13:30:00 -
[1682]
How many accounts do CCP expect to lose?
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Blancanieves
Increasing Success by Lowering Expectations Vanguard.
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 13:30:00 -
[1683]
Yippeah, my second account just ran out today, and I can't do anything about it because of some strange "maintenance"... lucky as I am, it seems I will miss at least a whole week of training time as I will be offline for the coming week. What a nice coincidence. Is it intended? Do you want to prevent people from canceling their subscription or from transferring their characters to another account or just from extending their subscription? -
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Liranan
M'8'S Frontal Impact
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 13:31:00 -
[1684]
Originally by: Sahara Eternity
Well what you are saying is that you actualy have to "pay to wait" at least 8 - 12 months to board a cap ship (depending on the atributes of course - it cold take a lot longer if you want to use it close to decent), right? Just pay and watch the "progress bar" move a nanometer a day huh?
The traning system was designed to take time - especialy to kepp the dollars/euros come to them, this is why it costs you about 120 bucks to board a carrier, this is why it costs you about 360 bucks to board a mothership ... and the list can go on. I'm not saying that SP's are free but think about it, every one that is "ghost training" returns, and pays sooner or later.
I watch my SP bar move a nanometre everyday across five characters. Enough with the whining! Do I understand servicemen and women who set a skill and don't pay when they go on their tours? Yes I do but I have no sympathy. You get paid, just like the rest of us. You can't afford to pay a monthly subscription? Then you should refuse to serve under a regime that expects you to die but isn't willing to pay or support you (do we need to discuss pay cuts and the cuts on therapy but the increase on spending and the profits of the arms industry?). You really want to do something useful? Overthrow your regime. Faux says that's bad? Poor you. In the end I am not rich but I still pay, even when I don't play. Farjung is my God
You people need to open your eyes and read threads before you mindlessly spam the New Thread link. |
Jonathan Calvert
Minmatar Empire Mining and Trade
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 13:31:00 -
[1685]
I support this change. No pay, no play.
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Redent SC
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 13:32:00 -
[1686]
Dear CCP. I aint gonna say anything that has been said before. Simply this
/signed
Get your act together CCP, Come on and respond. this aint right at all.
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Karina Mei
Caldari
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 13:32:00 -
[1687]
Originally by: Helios vector
Originally by: Lothris Andastar
Originally by: Todoshi What are the chances that a dev can get his ass from hiding and actuly reply to the playerbase or are they all as gutless as it would seem so far?
No they are actually off working.
They dont need to reply to you.
They are canceling ghost training and if you dont like it, quit. Noone will miss you least of all the EvE Devs
Oh i think many of you will miss us. CCP said themselves that an "Avalanche" of people are doing this. I wouldnt be surprised if the player count drops by over 100,000 players in the next 3 months.
I doubt it'll drop by that much but if we take CCP's word for it that it the "Avalanche" of players using ghost training was affecting the database then it will have a noticeable affect. Either that, or the "Avalanche" was yet another excuse?
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Rramar Claime
Amarr Task Force Zener Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2008.10.14 13:33:00 -
[1688]
Originally by: Grarr Dexx
Originally by: Todoshi anyone else notice that all of a sudden the accounts section of the website is down.
Nice move now ccp really do look like a bunch of liars.
Good job, you're only on the third page since it was noticed.
Loooool way to go ccp, how else could you keep people from rage quitting . Nice. Very nice. This is just such a disgusting move you really crossed a line with it... Important maintenance eh?...
"I cherish the memories of a question my grandson asked me the other day, when he said; 'Grandpa, were you a hero in the war?' Grandpa said, 'No, but I served in a company of heroes." |
Vargo Hoat
Caldari State Protectorate
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 13:34:00 -
[1689]
Originally by: ArmyOfMe
Originally by: Vargo Hoat How often do you really need to train a 40 day skill?
ive never ghost trained, but to answer you question the answer is that its starting to happen quite often.
at least the 30+ day skills happens all the ****ing time now
While this is true, I ask you this:
If you're at that point with your character that you train 30+ day skills regularly why, for God's sake, is that character inactive? If that character is so far in it's expertise that you're actually playing with some other character?
From what I understand when you have a very well trained character you actually play with it. Or am I missing something here?
Do you want a Caldari Marauder? Contact me for a BPC! |
SupplyOfficer
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 13:34:00 -
[1690]
CCP act like f****g noobs
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Gnulpie
Minmatar Miner Tech
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 13:34:00 -
[1691]
Originally by: Ivor Gunn
Quote: Ghost Training was an unintended feature
No it wasn't.
Quote: Skills continue training even if you are logged off or if your account is inactive
You contradict your own knowledge base.
Pure hypocrisy.
That is complete nonsense you are writing there.
Of course CCP knows that it is possible to train on an inactive account. But that doesn't mean at all that they want this to happen.
Actually I am quite happy about that change.
Training for free, leeching the paying customers, that is what those parasites were doing. And it is good that CCP stopped them from doing so!
There is no free lunch. Everything costs and someone has to pay for it. So those people didn't pay and that means that someone else paid for them. The normal, honest subscriber paid for them.
I have absolutely NO intention to pay for those leechers with my money. If you want to play and train, pay for it!
A good change CCP, and a good blog also. |
Triksterism
Gallente Frozen Corpse Inspection Services United Federation of Capsuleers
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 13:36:00 -
[1692]
Wow, I wake up and this thread has increased by about 25 pages :O -
Ghost Train & Snowflake |
Xyzibyte
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 13:36:00 -
[1693]
CCP is out of money???
CCP AQUARIUM
BAAAAD joke
CCP this is epic fail ... stop hurting yourself by hitting the community... also stop the lies!
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Monoke
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 13:37:00 -
[1694]
Personally I think CCP are only doing this so that future drops in subscriptions can be blamed on this and they can remain happy in their "speed nerf will not affect subscriptions" bubble.
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Karina Mei
Caldari
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 13:37:00 -
[1695]
Originally by: Liranan Poor you. In the end I am not rich but I still pay, even when I don't play.
So you pay even when you're not playing, would you still be happy for a utility bill to be charged at the same rate even if you weren't making use of it? Before anyone says it, yes I know the game isn't real life...
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Todoshi
Caldari Caldari Logistics and Supplies
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 13:38:00 -
[1696]
Originally by: Karina Mei
Originally by: Helios vector
Originally by: Lothris Andastar
Originally by: Todoshi What are the chances that a dev can get his ass from hiding and actuly reply to the playerbase or are they all as gutless as it would seem so far?
No they are actually off working.
They dont need to reply to you.
They are canceling ghost training and if you dont like it, quit. Noone will miss you least of all the EvE Devs
Oh i think many of you will miss us. CCP said themselves that an "Avalanche" of people are doing this. I wouldnt be surprised if the player count drops by over 100,000 players in the next 3 months.
I doubt it'll drop by that much but if we take CCP's word for it that it the "Avalanche" of players using ghost training was affecting the database then it will have a noticeable affect. Either that, or the "Avalanche" was yet another excuse?
I have no doubts that i won't be missed but most of the people who are all for this change, however let us not forgot that just becase i have ghost trained at times does not mean that i'm not playing with a different account, if enough people leave then say good buy to all those lovely cheap mods and ships, because if the players quit the prices will go up
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Grarr Dexx
Amarr The Cosa Nostra La Cosa Nostra Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 13:38:00 -
[1697]
Originally by: Karina Mei
Originally by: Liranan Poor you. In the end I am not rich but I still pay, even when I don't play.
So you pay even when you're not playing, would you still be happy for a utility bill to be charged at the same rate even if you weren't making use of it? Before anyone says it, yes I know the game isn't real life...
If this utility bill kept my freezer freezing, my refrigerator running and my house not unpleasantly cold, then happily.
Stop creating fallacies and jumping off of them like they're solidly based.
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Loyal Servant
Caldari PURE Legion Pure.
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 13:38:00 -
[1698]
Holy crap! You can't cancel if you wanted to! They disabled account access!
LOL..... Thanks for pointing that out further back in the threadnaught.
Nice CCP.... that will keep people paying, or get your credit card processing account frozen because of complaints.
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ArmyOfMe
Developmental Neogenics Amalgamated
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 13:38:00 -
[1699]
Originally by: Vargo Hoat
Originally by: ArmyOfMe
Originally by: Vargo Hoat How often do you really need to train a 40 day skill?
ive never ghost trained, but to answer you question the answer is that its starting to happen quite often.
at least the 30+ day skills happens all the ****ing time now
While this is true, I ask you this:
If you're at that point with your character that you train 30+ day skills regularly why, for God's sake, is that character inactive? If that character is so far in it's expertise that you're actually playing with some other character?
From what I understand when you have a very well trained character you actually play with it. Or am I missing something here?
if you read again you will notice i said i never ghost train
Originally by: deadmaus
Because by the time we had calmed Plague down after he heard BoB were back in the vicinity it was too late to do anything |
Taat Ricedi
Trade Guild Inperium
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 13:39:00 -
[1700]
Edited by: Taat Ricedi on 14/10/2008 13:39:55
Originally by: Gnulpie
Originally by: Ivor Gunn
Quote: Ghost Training was an unintended feature
No it wasn't.
Quote: Skills continue training even if you are logged off or if your account is inactive
You contradict your own knowledge base.
Pure hypocrisy.
That is complete nonsense you are writing there.
Of course CCP knows that it is possible to train on an inactive account. But that doesn't mean at all that they want this to happen.
Actually I am quite happy about that change.
Training for free, leeching the paying customers, that is what those parasites were doing. And it is good that CCP stopped them from doing so!
There is no free lunch. Everything costs and someone has to pay for it. So those people didn't pay and that means that someone else paid for them. The normal, honest subscriber paid for them.
I have absolutely NO intention to pay for those leechers with my money. If you want to play and train, pay for it!
A good change CCP, and a good blog also.
So can u tell me how did you pay for me when my account was inactive?
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|
Adam Slysphere
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 13:39:00 -
[1701]
OMG! Sky falling!! CCP Fails! On noeez1!
Skill Training Complete. Forum Drama has reached level 5.
If you guys were at the helm of CCP you'd do the same thing ... People are "playing" the game without paying for it. No much of a way to run a business.
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Veldya
Guristari Freedom Fighters
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 13:39:00 -
[1702]
Originally by: Friday Jinx Are you people on drugs? How can you be whining about this change from the company that gives you FREE EXPANSIONS to an MMO?
If CCP feels they need to do this, then let them, you ungrateful babies.
The expansions might be free but many MMOs see a lot more content via regular monthly updates than we get bi-annually. So not sure if we are actually benefiting. We are just not getting monthly content and not getting major expansions. TBH, I would rather see paid expansion with significant content added annually.
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Gajowy
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 13:40:00 -
[1703]
http://www.eve-online.com/guide/en/g615.asp "Skills continue training even if you are logged off or if your account is inactive (in the second scenario you can't change skill training, though)."
CCP THERE IS A BUG IN PLAYER GUIDE FROM OVER 5 YEARS
hope they can hear me and fix this fast enough before people will feel that they are treated like idiots
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reoveck
Amarr Grumpy Old Farts
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 13:41:00 -
[1704]
thank you ccp, for a while now I have been toying with turning my 4 accounts into 2 and moving the chars over, you have just helped me with that decission
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Andrei Vassaliev
Altera Odyssea Tau Ceti Federation
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 13:41:00 -
[1705]
CCP != The International Humanitarian Foundation So, go away awful poor men!
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Sahara Eternity
Amarr Imperial Academy
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 13:41:00 -
[1706]
Edited by: Sahara Eternity on 14/10/2008 13:44:20
Originally by: Liranan
I watch my SP bar move a nanometre everyday across five characters. Enough with the whining! Do I understand servicemen and women who set a skill and don't pay when they go on their tours? Yes I do but I have no sympathy. You get paid, just like the rest of us. You can't afford to pay a monthly subscription? Then you should refuse to serve under a regime that expects you to die but isn't willing to pay or support you (do we need to discuss pay cuts and the cuts on therapy but the increase on spending and the profits of the arms industry?). You really want to do something useful? Overthrow your regime. Faux says that's bad? Poor you. In the end I am not rich but I still pay, even when I don't play.
Then cut all the "gain" an inactive account has, such as RP, and market transactions, perhaps even delete the account after 6 months or so ... and after that introduce payed patches, im sure that will boost the Iceland's economy ... not. In 2+ years of playing on 2 separate account i think i've done once a "ghost traning" and you are mistaken, i'm not complaining, im just sick and tired of seeng services payed and not delivered. I bet manny of the current "winers" in this thread wodn't have nothing against this "bug fix" if there was no lag, or no "our logs showes nothing" petitions responses. Unfortunatly some times EVE is not WhatYouPayIsWhatYouGet service so normaly people will be upset.
Originally by: Grarr Dexx Stay on Carrier 4 then, and fit a drone control unit. Nobody is forcing you to train this insane skill to five, and if they are, I think it's time for a change of scenery!
Carrier skill was just a simple example m8 ... all rank 5+ skills take at least 20 days to train from lvl 4 to lvl 5, and that on a good combination of atributes, now that is ridiculos ... an average 2 year player payed already at least 360 dollars/euros concidering he has only one account. That's aprox 800 dollars on my case becouse I have 2 - can u point me to another game that is this "free" ?
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Farlon Brando
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 13:42:00 -
[1707]
first they change gtc system making em cost over 100% more in isk then before and then they complain that there is a spike in ghost training... go figure. Anyways gtc prices should go down now if people who say they are cancelling accounts will. I doubt it tho. never really used ghost training myself much, until recently as supporting rarely used alt account with constant gtc's just wasn't worth it anymore with the current prices.
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Howard Atkins
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 13:43:00 -
[1708]
Originally by: Lerand Gaunt
Bye, bye. We are happy to see you leave. One less 10-year-old forum whiner...
Iam glad that you brought some very valid points that explain what you did not like about my statement. But dont be worried, my easily-insulting-others-without-reason friend, i do have one account that will stay active :) Or maybe i should put sarcasm tags in the text?
- H.A.
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Simon LBowerbank
Amarr Universal Assembler
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 13:43:00 -
[1709]
So i have to train Battleship V the old fashioned way while previous players could do it for free while taking a break?
Yeah that sounds really fair thanks CCP
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Grarr Dexx
Amarr The Cosa Nostra La Cosa Nostra Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 13:43:00 -
[1710]
Edited by: Grarr Dexx on 14/10/2008 13:43:54
Originally by: Sahara Eternity
Originally by: Liranan
I watch my SP bar move a nanometre everyday across five characters. Enough with the whining! Do I understand servicemen and women who set a skill and don't pay when they go on their tours? Yes I do but I have no sympathy. You get paid, just like the rest of us. You can't afford to pay a monthly subscription? Then you should refuse to serve under a regime that expects you to die but isn't willing to pay or support you (do we need to discuss pay cuts and the cuts on therapy but the increase on spending and the profits of the arms industry?). You really want to do something useful? Overthrow your regime. Faux says that's bad? Poor you. In the end I am not rich but I still pay, even when I don't play.
Then cut all the "gain" an inactive account has, such as RP, and market transactions, perhaps even delete the account after 6 months or so ... and after that introduce payed patches, im sure that will boost the Iceland's economy ... not. In 2+ years of playing on 2 separate account i think i've done one a "ghost traning" and you are mistake, i'm not complaining, im just sick and tired of seeng services payed and not delivered. I bet manny of the current "winers" in this thread wond have nothing against this "bug fix" if there was no lag, or no "our logs showes nothing" petitions responses. Unfortunatly some times EVE is not WhatYouPayIsWhatYouGet service so normaly people will be upset.
Originally by: Grarr Dexx Stay on Carrier 4 then, and fit a drone control unit. Nobody is forcing you to train this insane skill to five, and if they are, I think it's time for a change of scenery!
Carrier skill was just a simple example m8 ... all rank 5+ skills take at least 20 days to train from lvl 4 to lvl 5, and that on a good combination of atributes, now that is ridiculos ... an average 2 year player payed already at least 360 dollars/euros concidering he has only one account. That's aprox 800 dollars on my case becouse I have 2 - can u point me to another game that is this "free" ?
Change it to maximum five days for a rank 8 skill then? Oh boy, the game would be fun to fly with everyone and their mothers flying rapiers, crows and vagabonds.
|
|
Simon LBowerbank
Amarr Universal Assembler
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 13:44:00 -
[1711]
Originally by: Gajowy http://www.eve-online.com/guide/en/g615.asp "Skills continue training even if you are logged off or if your account is inactive (in the second scenario you can't change skill training, though)."
CCP THERE IS A BUG IN PLAYER GUIDE FROM OVER 5 YEARS
hope they can hear me and fix this fast enough before people will feel that they are treated like idiots
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Grarr Dexx
Amarr The Cosa Nostra La Cosa Nostra Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 13:44:00 -
[1712]
Originally by: Simon LBowerbank So i have to train Battleship V the old fashioned way while previous players could do it for free while taking a break?
Yeah that sounds really fair thanks CCP
One word: BPO. Eve isn't fair, and I have the EULA and the ToS to back me up on that.
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Catherine Frasier
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 13:45:00 -
[1713]
Originally by: Todoshi if enough people leave then say good buy to all those lovely cheap mods and ships, because if the players quit the prices will go up
Ooh! Bunch of metagamers gone and prices going up? That'd be like the cherry on top: crossing my fingers that you're right. (But I doubt it.)
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Karina Mei
Caldari
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 13:46:00 -
[1714]
Originally by: Grarr Dexx
Originally by: Karina Mei
Originally by: Liranan Poor you. In the end I am not rich but I still pay, even when I don't play.
So you pay even when you're not playing, would you still be happy for a utility bill to be charged at the same rate even if you weren't making use of it? Before anyone says it, yes I know the game isn't real life...
If this utility bill kept my freezer freezing, my refrigerator running and my house not unpleasantly cold, then happily.
Stop creating fallacies and jumping off of them like they're solidly based.
While you're at it try reading the actually wording of the post and not just your take on it.
if you weren't making use of it means not using it, as in it's not doing anything, as in you pay the same for the electric you're not using.
That was my point, which you completely missed.
I'm not saying that I want something for nothing, just replying to a poster that said they were happy to pay for something they weren't using.
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AleRiperKilt
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 13:46:00 -
[1715]
Releasing a Linux client and the fact you could train while offline were the two main factors in my decision to try this game (first and only MMRPG I've ever played).
Most of what I know about WoW is the South Park episode and they make a nice point there about grinding for skills there, lol.
Now at first when I read this about training while account inactive I thought that was not fear and gotta be a bug but now I can clearly read in the player guide it is an "intended game feature" you are taking away (after all, you have to pay to use the benefits of all that ghost training)
I think you guys at CCP should hunt down the original devs and ask them if it is a bug or actually a "feature". For me this seems like a bonehead move from somebody new (just like the Veldonough one)
CCP: As Bill Gates once said ... "It's not a bug, it's a feature"
--- "I live in Los Angeles, where driving is non-consensual pvp" - Arric Rohr |
Simon LBowerbank
Amarr Universal Assembler
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Posted - 2008.10.14 13:46:00 -
[1716]
BPO? What?
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Nilien
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 13:46:00 -
[1717]
Originally by: Adam Slysphere OMG! Sky falling!! CCP Fails! On noeez1!
Skill Training Complete. Forum Drama has reached level 5.
If you guys were at the helm of CCP you'd do the same thing ... People are "playing" the game without paying for it. No much of a way to run a business.
But ccp can... Could earn on those who payed by isk anyway. Now it's impossible.
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Endena
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 13:47:00 -
[1718]
I have 4 accounts with well developed mains on it. If I faced skills like Capital 5 or BS 5, I was glad to put that account in ghost training. Most of the skills for a char with 40 mil SP take longer. I can use on my computer anyways only 2 accounts on the same time. After my inactive account had done his ghost training, it came back with a nice new toy. It was like getting a new char sometimes and made the game more exciting for me.
Consequences are clear: I reduce on 2 accounts. I will not train such nervkilling high rank skills on 2 extra accounts, which I hardly use. It would have been nice to get an extra command ship from another race or an other capital class ship. But if CCP think, I do not need this. NP. In the end CCP will get less money and the risk is rising, cCP lose a player, who played this game almost every day, because he might get bored. And certainly CCP will not get more money from me. When I started this game, I wanted only 1 account anyway. Now I have 4. Seems to be time to do some cleaning and cost cutting.
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Dlightfull
e-PWN
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Posted - 2008.10.14 13:47:00 -
[1719]
Eve was the only decent MMO i could play, coz there is the possibility to pay irl money for subscription, since i'm poor irl, i barely can afford to pay for internet, now, with these changes (only 60d gtc's at crazy prices and now this change), i will be able to barelly keep an account alive, and that's the 1 i make isk on, so no more pvp for me i guess :(. Thks a lot CCP for turning the best game ever into some shit, i guess i've lived more than enough in this fantasy world, it was great while it lasted, i'l go back to single player games i guess |
NupetietVer
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Posted - 2008.10.14 13:48:00 -
[1720]
Wow, CCP has standardized the GTC's with that Kraptastic change to 60 day 90 day, and now this?
Well now consider your profits Standardized, down the drain now CCP.
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Grarr Dexx
Amarr The Cosa Nostra La Cosa Nostra Alliance
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Posted - 2008.10.14 13:50:00 -
[1721]
Originally by: Dlightfull Eve was the only decent MMO i could play, coz there is the possibility to pay irl money for subscription, since i'm poor irl, i barely can afford to pay for internet, now, with these changes (only 60d gtc's at crazy prices and now this change), i will be able to barelly keep an account alive, and that's the 1 i make isk on, so no more pvp for me i guess :(. Thks a lot CCP for turning the best game ever into some shit, i guess i've lived more than enough in this fantasy world, it was great while it lasted, i'l go back to single player games i guess
Maybe starting eve in your financial position wasn't the right choice. I'm not being blunt here, but there are tons of freespace-esque games out there, singleplayer and multiplayer without a monthly fee.
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Adam Slysphere
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Posted - 2008.10.14 13:51:00 -
[1722]
Originally by: Dlightfull Eve was the only decent MMO i could play, coz there is the possibility to pay irl money for subscription, since i'm poor irl, i barely can afford to pay for internet, now, with these changes (only 60d gtc's at crazy prices and now this change), i will be able to barelly keep an account alive, and that's the 1 i make isk on, so no more pvp for me i guess :(. Thks a lot CCP for turning the best game ever into some shit, i guess i've lived more than enough in this fantasy world, it was great while it lasted, i'l go back to single player games i guess
If you can barely afford to pay for internet and EVE, perhaps it's best that you quit and evaluate you're lifestyle anyways ...
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Dlightfull
e-PWN
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Posted - 2008.10.14 13:53:00 -
[1723]
Originally by: Adam Slysphere
If you can barely afford to pay for internet and EVE, perhaps it's best that you quit and evaluate you're lifestyle anyways ...
Well, it's the country where i live that makes it like that, and the very reason i was playing eve is because i could pay with ingame money, now i can't do it effectivelly anymore :(
We can pwn you if we want to! |
Ai Sakura
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Posted - 2008.10.14 13:53:00 -
[1724]
Originally by: Adam Slysphere OMG! Sky falling!! CCP Fails! On noeez1!
Skill Training Complete. Forum Drama has reached level 5.
If you guys were at the helm of CCP you'd do the same thing ... People are "playing" the game without paying for it. No much of a way to run a business.
You can still login with an inactive subscription? I think that would be called playing the system.. You arent playing anything
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Karma
Eve University
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Posted - 2008.10.14 13:54:00 -
[1725]
Originally by: Loyal Servant Holy crap! You can't cancel if you wanted to! They disabled account access!
probably the accountpage cracked under the stress of all those alt accounts being canceled.
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Adam Slysphere
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 13:54:00 -
[1726]
Originally by: Endena
I have 4 accounts with well developed mains on it. If I faced skills like Capital 5 or BS 5, I was glad to put that account in ghost training. Most of the skills for a char with 40 mil SP take longer. I can use on my computer anyways only 2 accounts on the same time. After my inactive account had done his ghost training, it came back with a nice new toy. It was like getting a new char sometimes and made the game more exciting for me.
Consequences are clear: I reduce on 2 accounts. I will not train such nervkilling high rank skills on 2 extra accounts, which I hardly use. It would have been nice to get an extra command ship from another race or an other capital class ship. But if CCP think, I do not need this. NP. In the end CCP will get less money and the risk is rising, cCP lose a player, who played this game almost every day, because he might get bored. And certainly CCP will not get more money from me. When I started this game, I wanted only 1 account anyway. Now I have 4. Seems to be time to do some cleaning and cost cutting.
lol, I'm canceling the accounts that I rarely ever paid for!!
That will teach them a lesson they won't soon forget! All you rage quitters need to get it together ... On the other hand, you are providing me with a lot of entertainment since I can't play EVE right now.
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Astria Tiphareth
Caldari 24th Imperial Crusade
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Posted - 2008.10.14 13:55:00 -
[1727]
I'm actually going to reverse my earlier view, which was that I don't mind these changes, because of the dangerous precedent this sets. If this isn't going to be allowed on inactive account, what's next? RP? Market Orders? Contracts? Research slots? Manufacturing?
Why not go the whole way and just have us earn SP on blowing ships up and therefore no SP earning unless you're playing the game (which should sound familiar territory to those from other MMOs), and forget about all the things that made EVE the game it was? ___ My views may not represent those of my corporation, which is why I never get invited to those diplomatic parties... Environmental Effects
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Gedhay
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Posted - 2008.10.14 13:55:00 -
[1728]
Edited by: Gedhay on 14/10/2008 13:56:11
btw, if this is a "bug", then why i have 3 characters and i'm training only one of them??? i'm not paying for the account?? and the account have 3 characters, dont they?? this is a "feature", not a "bug"???
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ingenting
20th Legion Southern Cross Alliance
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Posted - 2008.10.14 13:56:00 -
[1729]
_________________
- "Welcome to EVE, remember to insu *BAAOOM*... Told you, newb." |
Karina Mei
Caldari
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 13:56:00 -
[1730]
Originally by: Simon LBowerbank BPO? What?
Presuming Tech 2.. Aren't those reserved for BoD
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Seth Ruin
Minmatar Ominous Corp Ethereal Dawn
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Posted - 2008.10.14 13:56:00 -
[1731]
Originally by: Adam Slysphere lol, I'm canceling the accounts that I . . . paid for!!
The key right there.
Getting paid sometimes is more profit than getting paid never.
-- (CCP Inconsistency)
Why cover it up? We KNOW it's all just about money |
Adam Slysphere
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Posted - 2008.10.14 13:58:00 -
[1732]
Originally by: ingenting
that picture stole part of my soul ... :(
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Lord Fitz
Project Amargosa
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Posted - 2008.10.14 13:58:00 -
[1733]
Originally by: Adam Slysphere If you guys were at the helm of CCP you'd do the same thing ... People are "playing" the game without paying for it. No much of a way to run a business.
If "playing" the game can be done without logging in, ever, the game is a failure.
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NupetietVer
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Posted - 2008.10.14 13:59:00 -
[1734]
Originally by: Astria Tiphareth
Why not go the whole way and just have us earn SP on blowing ships up and therefore no SP earning unless you're playing the game (which should sound familiar territory to those from other MMOs), and forget about all the things that made EVE the game it was?
Indeed, since these skills take an @$$hat to train, why not their by Experience scrolls or something to use? Try telling a new player he has to wait 2 months and $35 dollars later before he can fly a BattleCruiser. Dikt move on your part CCP.
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Arimai
hirr Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2008.10.14 13:59:00 -
[1735]
Quote: Now a single customer that doesn't log into the servers may not weigh heavily on our database infrastructure, just as a single snowflake isn't that heavy, hardly a measurable quantity. But it's hard not to notice an avalanche if it hits you. And that's what was starting to happen in our database.
Let's say CCP had 600K active chars last downtime. Skills dont need to be checked to see if they ended until someone logs in. So the load on the cluster is passive until someone logs in (think in tuples of accountid, charid, skillid ,start sp, start time, endtime).
Please explain how 600K rows can be hurtfull? Will ccp soon delete inactive characters too?
If the db load is the true subject, please be quick with releasing a patch that increases subscription cost based on transactions, items that characters have. The amount of data used for that should be a few orders of magnitude bigger then skill training.
If it's 'we want income', just be clear about it, and drop the bullshit..
PS: Bit of a shame that account management is down right now, that's another odd 'coincidence'. I guess petition will work to cancel subscription though :/
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Adam Slysphere
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Posted - 2008.10.14 13:59:00 -
[1736]
Originally by: Seth Ruin
Originally by: Adam Slysphere lol, I'm canceling the accounts that I . . . paid for!!
The key right there.
Getting paid sometimes is more profit than getting paid never.
Getting people to pay all the time is better than people paying once or twice a year.
Everyone is rage quitting now, but after a couple weeks an realizing they can't live with only training one character up at a time, they'll turn the accounts back on.
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Gunner
The Collective Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2008.10.14 14:00:00 -
[1737]
Originally by: Adam Slysphere
Originally by: Dlightfull Eve was the only decent MMO i could play, coz there is the possibility to pay irl money for subscription, since i'm poor irl, i barely can afford to pay for internet, now, with these changes (only 60d gtc's at crazy prices and now this change), i will be able to barelly keep an account alive, and that's the 1 i make isk on, so no more pvp for me i guess :(. Thks a lot CCP for turning the best game ever into some shit, i guess i've lived more than enough in this fantasy world, it was great while it lasted, i'l go back to single player games i guess
If you can barely afford to pay for internet and EVE, perhaps it's best that you quit and evaluate you're lifestyle anyways ...
So Eve is for the rich? *** 2007.10.06 R.I.P. Hatuk my friend.
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Grarr Dexx
Amarr The Cosa Nostra La Cosa Nostra Alliance
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Posted - 2008.10.14 14:00:00 -
[1738]
Originally by: NupetietVer
Originally by: Astria Tiphareth
Why not go the whole way and just have us earn SP on blowing ships up and therefore no SP earning unless you're playing the game (which should sound familiar territory to those from other MMOs), and forget about all the things that made EVE the game it was?
Indeed, since these skills take an @$$hat to train, why not their by Experience scrolls or something to use? Try telling a new player he has to wait 2 months and $35 dollars later before he can fly a BattleCruiser. Dikt move on your part CCP.
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Triksterism
Gallente Frozen Corpse Inspection Services United Federation of Capsuleers
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Posted - 2008.10.14 14:00:00 -
[1739]
Originally by: Lord Fitz
Originally by: Adam Slysphere If you guys were at the helm of CCP you'd do the same thing ... People are "playing" the game without paying for it. No much of a way to run a business.
If "playing" the game can be done without logging in, ever, the game is a failure.
I wouldn't consider the whole not logging in thing to be "playing" the game. The inactive skill training is, or I suppose was a lovely feature. As previously stated by many people, it allowed them to train a long skill with the downside being they can't actually play.
However, it gave them incentive to return back to eve asap to fly a new ship or have a new module. -
Ghost Train & Snowflake |
Adam Slysphere
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 14:01:00 -
[1740]
Originally by: Lord Fitz
Originally by: Adam Slysphere If you guys were at the helm of CCP you'd do the same thing ... People are "playing" the game without paying for it. No much of a way to run a business.
If "playing" the game can be done without logging in, ever, the game is a failure.
Yup, and now they're fixing that and people are loosing their mind.
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Gnulpie
Minmatar Miner Tech
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Posted - 2008.10.14 14:01:00 -
[1741]
Originally by: Taat Ricedi
So can u tell me how did you pay for me when my account was inactive?
I paid because your account needs database space, with each patch that affects the characters the database needs to be updated also even for inactive accounts and so on.
So you didn't pay for it, someone else did and the only people who are paying are those active subscribers. They paid for you.
You don't pay - you get nothing. Simple, easy and fair.
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omglollolol
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 14:02:00 -
[1742]
AWESOME ! I congratulate you on finding ways to earn more money!
Check this tards!
1st account (40$/2 months) 2nd account (40$/2 months) 3rd account (40$/2-4 months) Being Ghosttrainned. -------------------------- vs. 1st account (40$/2 months) 2nd account (40$/2 months) 3rd account (40$ fee for transfering 2 chars) - no more money for you....
boohya ____________________________ You may not share my intellect, which might explain your disrespect, for all I say ;p _________________ |
Lerand Gaunt
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Posted - 2008.10.14 14:02:00 -
[1743]
Originally by: Howard Atkins
Originally by: Lerand Gaunt
Bye, bye. We are happy to see you leave. One less 10-year-old forum whiner...
Iam glad that you brought some very valid points that explain what you did not like about my statement. But dont be worried, my easily-insulting-others-without-reason friend, i do have one account that will stay active :) Or maybe i should put sarcasm tags in the text?
- H.A.
I did not state the points I founded childish in you post because they are (at least to me) so blatantly shown. If it were ment to be sarcastic, I must appology, I did not see it. I might take things bit too seriously but I do have to mention that reading all these whines it tends to become hard to spot sarcasm :)
Part was this:
"Either -2 accounts, or my demands are met (yes, we can play this both ways. Lets not forget: Customer is King!):"
First thing that came to my mind was this scene I see frequently in my local store: A 10-year-old child sitting on the floor, grabbing mothers foor shouting "Unless you buy me that lollypop I will hold my breath untill I die!"
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Maliartis
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 14:02:00 -
[1744]
I will be permanently canceling my two alt accounts if this goes live. |
Adam Slysphere
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 14:03:00 -
[1745]
Originally by: Gunner
Originally by: Adam Slysphere
Originally by: Dlightfull Eve was the only decent MMO i could play, coz there is the possibility to pay irl money for subscription, since i'm poor irl, i barely can afford to pay for internet, now, with these changes (only 60d gtc's at crazy prices and now this change), i will be able to barelly keep an account alive, and that's the 1 i make isk on, so no more pvp for me i guess :(. Thks a lot CCP for turning the best game ever into some shit, i guess i've lived more than enough in this fantasy world, it was great while it lasted, i'l go back to single player games i guess
If you can barely afford to pay for internet and EVE, perhaps it's best that you quit and evaluate you're lifestyle anyways ...
So Eve is for the rich?
lol
Just saying, that if paying for EVE is breaking your budget perhaps you should reevaluate your lifestyle and maybe look into setting some new priorities. Doesn't exactly take a freaking millionaire to pay $15 a month does it?
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Endena
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 14:03:00 -
[1746]
Originally by: Adam Slysphere
Originally by: Endena
lol, I'm canceling the accounts that I rarely ever paid for!!
That will teach them a lesson they won't soon forget! All you rage quitters need to get it together ... On the other hand, you are providing me with a lot of entertainment since I can't play EVE right now.
You read my text wrong and your empathy attributs are also quite low. You are Achura and CAOD forum ***** on your main, amirite?
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Grarr Dexx
Amarr The Cosa Nostra La Cosa Nostra Alliance
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Posted - 2008.10.14 14:04:00 -
[1747]
Originally by: Maliartis I will be permanently canceling my two alt accounts if this goes live.
You better hurry up then
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NupetietVer
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 14:04:00 -
[1748]
Heck yea Eve is for the Rich.
Jacked up prices on GTC's. This new skill training so you now have to be tethered to you computer.
Thanks for excluding your existing and new playerbase CCP, you just standardized this MMO to WoW. Wow, look at your profits fall klownshoez!
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Sahara Eternity
Amarr Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2008.10.14 14:05:00 -
[1749]
Originally by: Gnulpie I paid because your account needs database space, with each patch that affects the characters the database needs to be updated also even for inactive accounts and so on.
So you didn't pay for it, someone else did and the only people who are paying are those active subscribers. They paid for you.
You don't pay -you get nothing. Simple, easy and fair.
LOL, Your logic sucks btw.
1) If I pay and don't log in do I get my monney back ? OR 2) If I pay and for some reason the precios batabase im paying for, decides that it wold not start in the alocated time (DT) do I also get my monney back ?
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ju4n1ta
Gallente The Scope
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Posted - 2008.10.14 14:05:00 -
[1750]
With ghost training nerfed, d'ya think it would be a good idea to hav "My Account" part of your webpage operational? Or will it be down untill next patch and we can all go **** our selves?
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Arrs Grazznic
Poena Executive Solutions
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Posted - 2008.10.14 14:05:00 -
[1751]
Originally by: Triksterism The inactive skill training is, or I suppose was a lovely feature. As previously stated by many people, it allowed them to train a long skill with the downside being they can't actually play.
However, it gave them incentive to return back to eve asap to fly a new ship or have a new module.
Very true. I have never Ghost Trained, but if I was to leave the game I'd consider coming back if I had a nice shiny to return to.
Cheers, Arrs
Quote: Is it just me who says "what can I do in real life: drink beer; walk around; put on clothes; fly a spaceship firing at other spaceships" and then use that to choose what I do on the internet?
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Mika Katon
Gallente The Greater Goon GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.10.14 14:06:00 -
[1752]
Originally by: Triksterism
Originally by: Lord Fitz If "playing" the game can be done without logging in, ever, the game is a failure.
I wouldn't consider the whole not logging in thing to be "playing" the game. The inactive skill training is, or I suppose was a lovely feature. As previously stated by many people, it allowed them to train a long skill with the downside being they can't actually play.
However, it gave them incentive to return back to eve asap to fly a new ship or have a new module.
Exactly.
I was planning on taking a month off to catch up on fixing the fence and getting some chores around the house done, and I was looking forward to resubscribing with Heavy Drones V complete. Now? I'm just staying unsubscribed.
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Ratio Legis
Slacker Industries
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Posted - 2008.10.14 14:06:00 -
[1753]
Originally by: Adam Slysphere
Originally by: Lord Fitz
If "playing" the game can be done without logging in, ever, the game is a failure.
Yup, and now they're fixing that and people are loosing their mind.
Nope, in order to keep training you need to pay for at least each second month.
Also, I find the timing of this change oddly fitting since it coincides with Blizzard's announcement how they want to make one Starcraft and charge for 3.
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Gedhay
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Posted - 2008.10.14 14:07:00 -
[1754]
Originally by: Adam Slysphere
Originally by: Seth Ruin
Originally by: Adam Slysphere lol, I'm canceling the accounts that I . . . paid for!!
The key right there.
Getting paid sometimes is more profit than getting paid never.
Getting people to pay all the time is better than people paying once or twice a year.
Everyone is rage quitting now, but after a couple weeks an realizing they can't live with only training one character up at a time, they'll turn the accounts back on.
if u pay once or twice a year, u have a lot of time not training anything. so u shouldn't be bother by that. but if ur going with business somewere or in vacation for 2-3 weeks and in the miwhile ur account goes disable.........
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NupetietVer
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Posted - 2008.10.14 14:08:00 -
[1755]
Originally by: Adam Slysphere
Originally by: Gunner
Originally by: Adam Slysphere
Originally by: Dlightfull Eve was the only decent MMO i could play, coz there is the possibility to pay irl money for subscription, since i'm poor irl, i barely can afford to pay for internet, now, with these changes (only 60d gtc's at crazy prices and now this change), i will be able to barelly keep an account alive, and that's the 1 i make isk on, so no more pvp for me i guess :(. Thks a lot CCP for turning the best game ever into some shit, i guess i've lived more than enough in this fantasy world, it was great while it lasted, i'l go back to single player games i guess
If you can barely afford to pay for internet and EVE, perhaps it's best that you quit and evaluate you're lifestyle anyways ...
So Eve is for the rich?
lol
Just saying, that if paying for EVE is breaking your budget perhaps you should reevaluate your lifestyle and maybe look into setting some new priorities. Doesn't exactly take a freaking millionaire to pay $15 a month does it?
$15 a month? Show me the link for that GTC. It's $35 now, more than doubled the price of an old 30-day GTC, which was $15.
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Adam Slysphere
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Posted - 2008.10.14 14:08:00 -
[1756]
Originally by: Ratio Legis
Originally by: Adam Slysphere
Originally by: Lord Fitz
If "playing" the game can be done without logging in, ever, the game is a failure.
Yup, and now they're fixing that and people are loosing their mind.
Nope, in order to keep training you need to pay for at least each second month.
Also, I find the timing of this change oddly fitting since it coincides with Blizzard's announcement how they want to make one Starcraft and charge for 3.
And now you have to pay for every month ... This is kind of CCP's point and the proper way to run a business...
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Stormaar
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.10.14 14:08:00 -
[1757]
Originally by: Ratio Legis
Originally by: Adam Slysphere
Originally by: Lord Fitz
If "playing" the game can be done without logging in, ever, the game is a failure.
Yup, and now they're fixing that and people are loosing their mind.
Nope, in order to keep training you need to pay for at least each second month.
Also, I find the timing of this change oddly fitting since it coincides with Blizzard's announcement how they want to make one Starcraft and charge for 3.
Look at Half-Life.
Pls, all, dont touch blizzard in each negative post. ----- Customizable UI / internal API for mods/addons |
Roseanna
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 14:08:00 -
[1758]
Originally by: Kim Wilde while needed to be removed for financiall reasons............. this feature of the game was one way of taking a vacation or a break while not loosing out, so introduce a skill queue so we know we wont be paying for a idle account while on vacation and id be happy
this makes total sense. and for the rest of you, gotta pay to play!
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Cpt Hook
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Posted - 2008.10.14 14:09:00 -
[1759]
Edited by: Cpt Hook on 14/10/2008 14:10:06 wtf is going on with the acount management page? why it has been disabled? this remember me of "those days" when the hole forum page was just "crashing" ...
Quote: The EVE-online website is undergoing maintenance. We are sorry for any inconvenience caused.
maintenance my *ss!
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Lilla Kharn
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Posted - 2008.10.14 14:10:00 -
[1760]
Edited by: Lilla Kharn on 14/10/2008 14:14:54 Honestly, it's not that I care you did this or not. Well maybe not. I do care about it, I don't believe it should be happening as it is, but if I don't like what you do to the game, I'll just stop playing. No need to post about it. But what really gets me is that you flat out lied to us. You blatantly call this something it's not, you try to promote 'game balance' when clearly this has nothing to do with game balance until you add in R&D.
You give us two days warning on something so serious and try to play it off as something that we shouldn't really care about. The GTC changes really screwed up my accounts to say the least, and this just takes the cake. No, I've never used this feature but I liked that if I needed to I could.
Whoever thought of this must have been drunk, whoever decided to implement it like this must have been high, and whoever decided to call this a bug must be delusional. Several times on your own website it has been stated as feature. Whether this 'feature' was intended or not, it is there and you as a company acknowledged it as one. As someone stated before, when a 'bug' is left there for 5 years, it becomes a game feature. This is widely used, this was not something that was kept secret and suddenly popped up.
*EDIT* Buying GTC's also still supported CCP because even if you didn't pay for GTC, the person you bought it from did. Therefore CCP is still making money. It's not like CCP went out and sold their own GTC's for ISK.
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Lord Fitz
Project Amargosa
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Posted - 2008.10.14 14:10:00 -
[1761]
Originally by: Gnulpie I paid because your account needs database space, with each patch that affects the characters the database needs to be updated also even for inactive accounts and so on.
So you didn't pay for it, someone else did and the only people who are paying are those active subscribers. They paid for you.
You don't pay - you get nothing. Simple, easy and fair.
That's the thing though, the amount of info being stored is trivial, and no more information is stored for chars that are being trained over those that are not. Players that haven't played for years are using as much resource as those who have paid recently, thus those who have paid recently, are 'paying' for people who will never pay again.
IF they were actually serious about it causing database load, they'd be trying to remove rows, and thus completely remove inactive accounts. But they're not. They're removing the ability to train, which will actually cause MORE load on the database, because previously, if a char never logged in (inactive) their skill training was never checked, and thus created no load. If you never tried to login, they don't even need to check if your account is active. Now they need to check if your account is active all the time, so they can stop training if it is not.
This change will create extra database load.
The worst bit about this is that they're treating us like we don't know this, like we're all 'you', and have no idea how things work, and will just accept the fictional reason they give us.
There is only one reason to implement this change, and that's if they want more money and figure the extra handful of people that sign up 100% of the time instead of 75% will make up for the load of people that never resubscribe.
|
Stormaar
Caldari
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 14:11:00 -
[1762]
Where all this CSM guys? ----- Customizable UI / internal API for mods/addons |
Siona Windweaver
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 14:11:00 -
[1763]
Edited by: Siona Windweaver on 14/10/2008 14:11:46
Quote: The Secure section of the EVE website is undergoing essential maintenance presently and it is currently unreachable. The issue concerns a problem with the server at our billing service provider and we are in contact with them to solve the issue and get an estimation on when we will be back up. We apologize for any inconvenience this may cause and we hope to have the secure section back up as soon as possible.
Linkage
What a coincidence.
|
Triksterism
Gallente Frozen Corpse Inspection Services United Federation of Capsuleers
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 14:12:00 -
[1764]
Originally by: Mika Katon
Originally by: Triksterism
Originally by: Lord Fitz If "playing" the game can be done without logging in, ever, the game is a failure.
I wouldn't consider the whole not logging in thing to be "playing" the game. The inactive skill training is, or I suppose was a lovely feature. As previously stated by many people, it allowed them to train a long skill with the downside being they can't actually play.
However, it gave them incentive to return back to eve asap to fly a new ship or have a new module.
Exactly.
I was planning on taking a month off to catch up on fixing the fence and getting some chores around the house done, and I was looking forward to resubscribing with Heavy Drones V complete. Now? I'm just staying unsubscribed.
Now, I think most people don't even ghost train regularly. They do it when they simply want to take a break. I, myself, have only ghost trained once (Minmatar Cruiser V -- I needed a break from EvE).
I don't know, I feel it is silly they are removing this. I feel it might give them a huge influx of cash (people activating alt accounts + character transfer fees) but after that, no extra steady income. A percentage of people who use alts will have reduced their account 'count' to about 1 instead of 3 or so. -
Ghost Train & Snowflake |
Seth Ruin
Minmatar Ominous Corp Ethereal Dawn
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 14:12:00 -
[1765]
Well it's 14:12 in Iceland...
Where's our responses, devs? You can't tell me nobody is watching this topic.
-- (CCP Inconsistency)
Why cover it up? We KNOW it's all just about money |
DMF KingBob
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 14:13:00 -
[1766]
Edited by: DMF KingBob on 14/10/2008 14:13:31 dear ccp
i know island is broke and has no more money but the fail of your banks should be not the reason to nerf an non-bug that years truely years effected and ****off more players then your dev-team can do
i dont wanna accept that we the victims of depends should pay for the misstakes of islands bankmanagers
|
Ratio Legis
Slacker Industries
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 14:13:00 -
[1767]
Originally by: Adam Slysphere
Originally by: Ratio Legis
Nope, in order to keep training you need to pay for at least each second month.
And now you have to pay for every month ... This is kind of CCP's point and the proper way to run a business...
That would be a valid point if they had made game mechanics that would allow me to use all my accounts with equal efficiency. In the case when a single user cannot run all of his accounts in the same manner, why do you argue it's ok to be charged equally for all of them?
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Rex Jett
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 14:13:00 -
[1768]
Well I guess there's no need for me to ever activate my account again. Cya EVE. I guess i'll keep giving my money to Blizzard
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Mriss
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 14:14:00 -
[1769]
Originally by: Adam Slysphere
Originally by: Seth Ruin
Originally by: Adam Slysphere lol, I'm canceling the accounts that I . . . paid for!!
Everyone is rage quitting now, but after a couple weeks an realizing they can't live with only training one character up at a time, they'll turn the accounts back on.
No, I don't think so.
CCP has shafted me once too many. Take the Rens ore belt disappearance, jump route rearrangements, Jita "solution", torp nerp, speed nerf, takeyourpick nerf...
Not anymore.
Besides, paying "once or twice" a year is better than none at all...
|
Scardin
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 14:14:00 -
[1770]
Originally by: Gnulpie
Originally by: Taat Ricedi
So can u tell me how did you pay for me when my account was inactive?
I paid because your account needs database space, with each patch that affects the characters the database needs to be updated also even for inactive accounts and so on.
So you didn't pay for it, someone else did and the only people who are paying are those active subscribers. They paid for you.
You don't pay - you get nothing. Simple, easy and fair.
Excuse me, I've been paying to CCP about $50 a month for my accounts, which is probably more than you are. I'll keep paying no more than that, but will unfortunately be forced to sell some of my characters, diminishing my enjoyment of the game.
But that's beside the point. A character with all its possessions will take up perhaps 1 MB of database space. Since even enterprise-class disk drives are $3 a gigabyte these days, i suppose I should be thankful for "your" contribution of $0.003 to my $50.
ps: Both you and CCP should learn the great difference between a cancelled account and a ghost trained account.
|
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KingBobs Dawn
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Posted - 2008.10.14 14:15:00 -
[1771]
and training an skills means not automaticly playing eve..... for do i pay for train or for play ???
|
BoRn2ReIgN
THE FINAL STAND
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 14:16:00 -
[1772]
this whole affair as been handled absolutely disgraceful, you have been trying to squeeze more money out of us for months now with taking away 30/90 day gtc and now this not even a few months later?
this is obviously a business like the rest of them, but can't you even at least try and pretend you care about your customers?
somebody better be losing their job over this. you've easily lost the confidence of half of the community, im not einstein or anything, but no community = no game.
the most disgusting thing to come out of this was announcing this a couple weeks after the new power of 2 promotion, then doing this to them. extremely disappointing and you've not only shown us where your priorities lie, but you have the nerve to give us no notice about the whole thing and basically treating us like animals. i can honestly say the majority of the users here feel disrespected, disappointed and annoyed, in that very order.
just found out 2 hours ago that this was going down and its due to happen in less than 30 hours, basically this is going to cost roughly $20 every 6 months x 9 accounts for me. so with 30 hours notice im expected to fork out an extra $180 over a 6 month time period ($360 a year). not acceptable and disgracefully managed.
you are not the only ones facing an economic crisis, stop being so damn selfish, greedy and self-centered and start listening to your clients for a change.
needless to say -6 accounts here.
p.s you have strained relations and disappointed majority of of us eve players, only way you can patch things up is to withdraw from implementing this, proving to us that we actually do have a voice and input into out the game evolves, as i guarentee half of us know you wont listen and we know we are wasting our time posting here, but we do anyway "just to see if they bother listening to us or not"
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Ilda Mrika
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 14:16:00 -
[1773]
Originally by: Siona Windweaver Edited by: Siona Windweaver on 14/10/2008 14:11:46
Quote: The Secure section of the EVE website is undergoing essential maintenance presently and it is currently unreachable. The issue concerns a problem with the server at our billing service provider and we are in contact with them to solve the issue and get an estimation on when we will be back up. We apologize for any inconvenience this may cause and we hope to have the secure section back up as soon as possible.
Linkage
What a coincidence.
Probably they noticed a peak in subscription cancelations and reached the conclusion that what used to be a game feature is now a bug. And in the benifit of game ballance, my account page was nerfed. |
Adam Slysphere
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 14:17:00 -
[1774]
Originally by: DMF KingBob Edited by: DMF KingBob on 14/10/2008 14:13:31 dear ccp
i know island is broke and has no more money but the fail of your banks should be not the reason to nerf an non-bug that years truely years effected and ****off more players then your dev-team can do
i dont wanna accept that we the victims of depends should pay for the misstakes of islands bankmanagers
CCP's income is in euro's, so they're no financially in trouble like other in Iceland.
|
cuculet
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 14:17:00 -
[1775]
Edited by: cuculet on 14/10/2008 14:22:00
Originally by: Seth Ruin Well it's 14:12 in Iceland...
Where's our responses, devs? You can't tell me nobody is watching this topic.
well they will just serve us this: "The EVE-online website is undergoing maintenance. We are sorry for any inconvenience caused." officially they don't have time for this^^ |
Adam Slysphere
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 14:19:00 -
[1776]
Originally by: Mriss
Originally by: Adam Slysphere
Originally by: Seth Ruin
Originally by: Adam Slysphere lol, I'm canceling the accounts that I . . . paid for!!
Everyone is rage quitting now, but after a couple weeks an realizing they can't live with only training one character up at a time, they'll turn the accounts back on.
No, I don't think so.
CCP has shafted me once too many. Take the Rens ore belt disappearance, jump route rearrangements, Jita "solution", torp nerp, speed nerf, takeyourpick nerf...
Not anymore.
Besides, paying "once or twice" a year is better than none at all...
C'ya in a couple months! /wave
|
the Burglar
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 14:19:00 -
[1777]
Funny, as I was about to cancel my subscription for my alt, "The EVE-online website is undergoing maintenance. We are sorry for any inconvenience caused. "
LMFAO
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Seth Ruin
Minmatar Ominous Corp Ethereal Dawn
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 14:19:00 -
[1778]
Originally by: cuculet
Originally by: Seth Ruin Well it's 14:12 in Iceland...
Where's our responses, devs? You can't tell me nobody is watching this topic.
well they will just serve us this: "The EVE-online website is undergoing maintenance. We are sorry for any inconvenience caused." officially they don't have time for this^^
So even the community managers are somehow helping out with that process? Doubt it.
-- (CCP Inconsistency)
Why cover it up? We KNOW it's all just about money |
Remlidan
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 14:19:00 -
[1779]
Originally by: NupetietVer $15 a month? Show me the link for that GTC. It's $35 now, more than doubled the price of an old 30-day GTC, which was $15.
It's $35 for 60 days. Think the subscription cost is $15 in the States (at least according to http://www.eve-online.com/faq/faq_08.asp)?
|
Lord Fitz
Project Amargosa
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 14:20:00 -
[1780]
Originally by: Adam Slysphere CCP's income is in euro's, so they're no financially in trouble like other in Iceland.
All though apparently they went to the same school of false economics, and so are doing the best to achieve very short term gains for longer term losses.
|
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Virgo I'Platonicus
Ex Eventus Corpi
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 14:20:00 -
[1781]
omfg. Bloody bad news to me :) It was exactly what kept this game fresh for most of us old players. We could take a month off the game, knowing that when we came back the game would have something new to offer. Lol i guess next time i freeze my accounts, I'll think 3times whether to return :) @CCP: I'm sure your financial team has a good reason for the change. It'd be nice if Wrangler could offer in his dev blog somewhat less ambigous information (or some numbers) to indicate the "avalanche" size.
/me turns wishful mode off :)
Regards, V. <3 |
Karina Mei
Caldari
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 14:21:00 -
[1782]
Originally by: Adam Slysphere
Originally by: Gunner
Originally by: Adam Slysphere
Originally by: Dlightfull Eve was the only decent MMO i could play, coz there is the possibility to pay irl money for subscription, since i'm poor irl, i barely can afford to pay for internet, now, with these changes (only 60d gtc's at crazy prices and now this change), i will be able to barelly keep an account alive, and that's the 1 i make isk on, so no more pvp for me i guess :(. Thks a lot CCP for turning the best game ever into some shit, i guess i've lived more than enough in this fantasy world, it was great while it lasted, i'l go back to single player games i guess
If you can barely afford to pay for internet and EVE, perhaps it's best that you quit and evaluate you're lifestyle anyways ...
So Eve is for the rich?
lol
Just saying, that if paying for EVE is breaking your budget perhaps you should reevaluate your lifestyle and maybe look into setting some new priorities. Doesn't exactly take a freaking millionaire to pay $15 a month does it?
Depends on how many lots of $15 you're paying out, and what else you've got as an outgoing... Eve isn't the only thing that costs.
|
Seth Ruin
Minmatar Ominous Corp Ethereal Dawn
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 14:21:00 -
[1783]
Originally by: Remlidan
Originally by: NupetietVer $15 a month? Show me the link for that GTC. It's $35 now, more than doubled the price of an old 30-day GTC, which was $15.
It's $35 for 60 days. Think the subscription cost is $15 in the States (at least according to http://www.eve-online.com/faq/faq_08.asp)?
$35 for 60 days is $17.50/mo, not $15.
-- (CCP Inconsistency)
Why cover it up? We KNOW it's all just about money |
Adam Slysphere
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 14:21:00 -
[1784]
Originally by: Remlidan
Originally by: NupetietVer $15 a month? Show me the link for that GTC. It's $35 now, more than doubled the price of an old 30-day GTC, which was $15.
It's $35 for 60 days. Think the subscription cost is $15 in the States (at least according to http://www.eve-online.com/faq/faq_08.asp)?
Yes
|
Kage Psychodin
Caldari The Empire Nation Worlds End Consortium
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 14:21:00 -
[1785]
Eh. only thing bad I see is they lied. (And unfortunately, in this day and age you can't really admit to lying from somebody else's orders until they give the okay.)
Had two accounts, one was inactive but nothing training. Other account I'm just gonna have to keep subbed, no big deal. carry on. Another one bites the dust. |
Sailon
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 14:22:00 -
[1786]
maybe this is their last attempt to keep their bussines up islandic economy is pretty worse at moment why dont ccp move all their activity to europe and get better salary than dieing at iceland :o.
|
Triksterism
Gallente Frozen Corpse Inspection Services United Federation of Capsuleers
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 14:22:00 -
[1787]
Originally by: Virgo I'Platonicus omfg. Bloody bad news to me :) It was exactly what kept this game fresh for most of us old players. We could take a month off the game, knowing that when we came back the game would have something new to offer. Lol i guess next time i freeze my accounts, I'll think 3times whether to return :) @CCP: I'm sure your financial team has a good reason for the change. It'd be nice if Wrangler could offer in his dev blog somewhat less ambigous information (or some numbers) to indicate the "avalanche" size.
/me turns wishful mode off :)
Regards, V.
Look at the 'snowflake' link in my sig -
Ghost Train & Snowflake |
lucy stirling
Gallente Guardian Heroes Inc.
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 14:23:00 -
[1788]
Well i don't see what is wrong what CCP are doing.
I have two characters and there payed for i think if you want more then 1 character then you must be willing to pay for it as you are the one that desided you have another character.
To me it make perfect sence as CCP is a game that people love and hate sometimes. CCP make a great game and for them to make this great game and improve it they need people to pay for there time on the game.
I know this upset people but they need to know they are a Company that has people that work for them and very good people too and they have to pay there wages and so on.
May agaist other people i am not just i can understand what CCP are doing.
|
Adam Slysphere
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 14:24:00 -
[1789]
Originally by: Karina Mei
Originally by: Adam Slysphere
Originally by: Gunner
Originally by: Adam Slysphere
Originally by: Dlightfull Eve was the only decent MMO i could play, coz there is the possibility to pay irl money for subscription, since i'm poor irl, i barely can afford to pay for internet, now, with these changes (only 60d gtc's at crazy prices and now this change), i will be able to barelly keep an account alive, and that's the 1 i make isk on, so no more pvp for me i guess :(. Thks a lot CCP for turning the best game ever into some shit, i guess i've lived more than enough in this fantasy world, it was great while it lasted, i'l go back to single player games i guess
If you can barely afford to pay for internet and EVE, perhaps it's best that you quit and evaluate you're lifestyle anyways ...
So Eve is for the rich?
lol
Just saying, that if paying for EVE is breaking your budget perhaps you should reevaluate your lifestyle and maybe look into setting some new priorities. Doesn't exactly take a freaking millionaire to pay $15 a month does it?
Depends on how many lots of $15 you're paying out, and what else you've got as an outgoing... Eve isn't the only thing that costs.
Yeah, see that's my point ... If you're that strapped for cash, perhaps EVE should be way down on the priorities list?
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NoX PL
Pink Bunnies C0VEN
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 14:25:00 -
[1790]
Edited by: NoX PL on 14/10/2008 14:25:55 Its harder and harder to like this game beacuse with every dev blog you come up with a wonderfull idea that only makes people angry.
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Remlidan
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 14:25:00 -
[1791]
Originally by: Seth Ruin
Originally by: Remlidan
Originally by: NupetietVer $15 a month? Show me the link for that GTC. It's $35 now, more than doubled the price of an old 30-day GTC, which was $15.
It's $35 for 60 days. Think the subscription cost is $15 in the States (at least according to http://www.eve-online.com/faq/faq_08.asp)?
$35 for 60 days is $17.50/mo, not $15.
Yes, which is 17% more than before, not more than double the price which he was claiming. And you can still subscribe for $15.
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Virgo I'Platonicus
Ex Eventus Corpi
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 14:26:00 -
[1792]
Edited by: Virgo I''Platonicus on 14/10/2008 14:28:49
Originally by: Triksterism
Look at the 'snowflake' link in my sig
You don't have a sig :P
V.
EDIT: found it and lol :) <3 |
Lord Fitz
Project Amargosa
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 14:26:00 -
[1793]
Originally by: lucy stirling Well i don't see what is wrong what CCP are doing.
I have two characters and there payed for i think if you want more then 1 character then you must be willing to pay for it as you are the one that desided you have another character.
To me it make perfect sence as CCP is a game that people love and hate sometimes. CCP make a great game and for them to make this great game and improve it they need people to pay for there time on the game.
I know this upset people but they need to know they are a Company that has people that work for them and very good people too and they have to pay there wages and so on.
May agaist other people i am not just i can understand what CCP are doing.
Which would be the point if this didn't do the complete opposite of the stated goal.
Doesn't decrease database load (will increase it) Doesn't give them more money long term (though I don't doubt it will 'this month') Doesn't fix a bug, (is a feature that attracts players back to the game)
Since CCP pay much of their wages in ISK, and the ISK just dropped big time vs the Euro/USD which they get subscriptions in, they should actually be doing better already.
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Gael Itrus
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 14:26:00 -
[1794]
It was my plan to open a second account to train for caps. I'm afraid that isn't going to happen with these changes.
Also, don't call something a bug when you've previously framed it as a feature.
Quote: Skills continue training even if you are logged off or if your account is inactive (in the second scenario you can't change skill training, though). As a result, it is a good idea to train short skills while you are playing and longer ones when you log off.
How to train skills, 3rd paragraph. [http://www.eve-online.com/guide/en/g615.asp]
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Adam Slysphere
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 14:27:00 -
[1795]
Originally by: Sailon maybe this is their last attempt to keep their bussines up islandic economy is pretty worse at moment why dont ccp move all their activity to europe and get better salary than dieing at iceland :o.
Again, CCP's funding is in Euro's not ISK, so the Icelandic depression isn't impacting them like the rest of the country. They've already commented on this many times.
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Sailon
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 14:27:00 -
[1796]
Originally by: lucy stirling Well i don't see what is wrong what CCP are doing.
I have two characters and there payed for i think if you want more then 1 character then you must be willing to pay for it as you are the one that desided you have another character.
To me it make perfect sence as CCP is a game that people love and hate sometimes. CCP make a great game and for them to make this great game and improve it they need people to pay for there time on the game.
I know this upset people but they need to know they are a Company that has people that work for them and very good people too and they have to pay there wages and so on.
May agaist other people i am not just i can understand what CCP are doing.
But why dont keep playerbase happy instead of giving it bad taste , happy player tells friend about good game instead of just saying your friend how the game is not good and no new players join.
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Mriss
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 14:27:00 -
[1797]
Originally by: Adam Slysphere
Yeah, see that's my point ... If you're that strapped for cash, perhaps EVE should be way down on the priorities list?
I understand that you are trolling and trying to make people angrier yet.
Please stop that. |
Ratio Legis
Slacker Industries
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 14:27:00 -
[1798]
Originally by: Adam Slysphere If you're that strapped for cash, perhaps EVE should be way down on the priorities list?
And you are arguing that it's a good change that would prompt a person to reevaluate his RL priorities and realize he's actually too poor to support his hoby, while a week ago he was not?
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AlphaViscera
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 14:28:00 -
[1799]
Edited by: AlphaViscera on 14/10/2008 14:29:17 I fail to see the logic here... If this was a gameplay balance fix, then there is a laundry list of balance issues to be fixed, and if this was a cash grab, the reality is that this really kills the alt accounts.
Think of it like this
Joe Blogs has a main eve account which he pays for pretty much always, unless to train for a large skill, when that happens he uses one of his alt accounts to play the game.
We all know this and some of us do it but lets look at it in economics
$15 per month for say 10 out of the 12 months per year = $150 the alt account which gets used more than just the 2 months, say 6 months = $75
total = $225
This patch will mean that Joe has no real need for the alt account, unless he is say a cap pilot, so the new changes will make him change his playing style, transfer the alt to the same account, and ask for support from the corp.
12 months of eve sub = $180
thats a loss of $45 per year.
Look I know Iceland is tanking, and you're creditors must be ****ing bricks right about now, but seriously did anyone really crunch these numbers before you approved it?
Also, if this was a gameplay bug, then it really does not make a difference if joe is subbed or not, he will finish BS V and he will fly carriers, so to other players it makes no difference.
CCP You need your head checked
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Tara Yang
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 14:28:00 -
[1800]
Originally by: The Dev Blog That's not fair towards CCP as a service provider and it's not fair towards other players that pay a subscription but don't make use of this bug.
Now a single customer that doesn't log into the servers may not weigh heavily on our database infrastructure, just as a single snowflake isn't that heavy, hardly a measurable quantity. But it's hard not to notice an avalanche if it hits you. And that's what was starting to happen in our database.
Just wanted to add my 0.02 isk to this very long thread. (I pity the fool who has to read it all at CCP, If they even read it.)
Granted I can understand that It's not fair to CCP that people still get higher SP while they are not paying for it. But to use those skills they have to in someway still pay to use the account someday.
But I really invalidated that it effects the player base in anyway, because even though They get higher skill points without paying, A paying customer gets the same ammount op SP AND isk by extually using the account AND a better understanding of the game mechanics by exctually playing the game. Granted I think most people using ghost training have multiple accounts and therefor gets better in eve anyway. If I recall correctlly this was the same argument used some time ago when new characters would be getting around 800k-900k SP at start up instead of the very low ammounts it was set up before that time. TO me this is a bit of hypocracy or turning words around or whatever you want to call it.
Moreover I really can't see how by someone not being active and not logging in on the server gets the database overloaded. As you can not excess the database and get an update on your skills by for instance evemon. If your database gets overloaded by not loggin in you really need to take an other look at how your database is structered.
Just to be sure I have used ghost training once sort off with an alt account but the only reason I did that was because the gtc prices went through the roof. But right now I'm happily paying for both accounts I have.
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Lag
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 14:29:00 -
[1801]
This change is complete crap.
Why should I pay for a months time that my character will not be able to do anything?
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Grarr Dexx
Amarr The Cosa Nostra La Cosa Nostra Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 14:29:00 -
[1802]
Originally by: Ratio Legis
Originally by: Adam Slysphere If you're that strapped for cash, perhaps EVE should be way down on the priorities list?
And you are arguing that it's a good change that would prompt a person to reevaluate his RL priorities and realize he's actually too poor to support his hoby, while a week ago he was not?
Slacker strike two!
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Gael Itrus
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 14:29:00 -
[1803]
Originally by: Carsidava Nope, sorry. This doesn't wash.
If you disable skill training for inactive accounts, why aren't you also disabling market orders from inactive accounts? Why aren't you also disabling RP accumulation from inactive accounts? Why aren't you disabling dividend payouts to inactive accounts?
Why are only skill points being hit?
Sorry CCP, this is an entirely unsatisfactory answer.
Because none of those things make CCP money.
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Midas Man
Caldari Dzark Asylum
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 14:31:00 -
[1804]
Originally by: Leilla Mac What are the odds on this "bug fix" borking the skill training continuing during DT. How many fixes have worked as intended without being pushed onto a test server first. I'd hope CCP have got this code worked out properly or the forums are likely to explode and a large maintenance bill will ensue. I sense a large LOL in the pipeline.
On a serious note I can see Skill training getting borked when you log out ie only online character getting trained and CCP Saying we are aware of the isssue and it will be fixed in a "later" patch.
Just think of how many GTC we would need to get to Cap Ship 5 if it only trained while online.
Maybe i should edit this post because if CCP read it (i doubt they will, they don't listen to customers anymore they can always tell the media hey we have CSM, we are the MMO leaders in Customer support LOL) they WILL like the idea and they WILL implemented purely by accident of course.
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Venetos
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Posted - 2008.10.14 14:31:00 -
[1805]
This "bug" was a feature for players playing with way cheaper GTCs for almost 5 years = already hi-skilled, rich (ISK-wise) and powerful players that you claimed that "cheated" all this time, will now become even stronger vs. noobs...great "bug fixxing" - customer support...a few months after raising GTC prizes...
Great...nothing to add to this thread - a lot of constructive points in may "customer" opinions tho...
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Rinaldo Titano
Caldari Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2008.10.14 14:32:00 -
[1806]
Originally by: AlphaViscera Edited by: AlphaViscera on 14/10/2008 14:29:17 I fail to see the logic here... If this was a gameplay balance fix, then there is a laundry list of balance issues to be fixed, and if this was a cash grab, the reality is that this really kills the alt accounts.
Think of it like this
Joe Blogs has a main eve account which he pays for pretty much always, unless to train for a large skill, when that happens he uses one of his alt accounts to play the game.
We all know this and some of us do it but lets look at it in economics
$15 per month for say 10 out of the 12 months per year = $150 the alt account which gets used more than just the 2 months, say 6 months = $75
total = $225
This patch will mean that Joe has no real need for the alt account, unless he is say a cap pilot, so the new changes will make him change his playing style, transfer the alt to the same account, and ask for support from the corp.
12 months of eve sub = $180
thats a loss of $45 per year.
Look I know Iceland is tanking, and you're creditors must be ****ing bricks right about now, but seriously did anyone really crunch these numbers before you approved it?
Also, if this was a gameplay bug, then it really does not make a difference if joe is subbed or not, he will finish BS V and he will fly carriers, so to other players it makes no difference.
CCP You need your head checked
and 2 other peoples would still pay the full subscribe for the accounts so that 2x 360 eur what is than 2x 135$ so the change was good for the income :(
pity but is so and it would go trough. and dont wait on response devs never responding on threads which are not like they wanted
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Wygg
Minmatar Hadean Drive Yards Archaean Cooperative
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Posted - 2008.10.14 14:32:00 -
[1807]
The easy solution to this whole problem is really quite simple.
Prohibit the sale of any character that's been inactive for a set percentage of their lifespan.
25%? 50%? 75%? Something could be worked out. It would stop the farming of characters simply for ISK generation and allow people with RL issues the ability to still reap a reward. Spend X% of the time with the account/characters inactive and you can't sell them. Sounds like a compromise.
Sure it would be nice to be able to train three characters simultaneously. Multi-skill training would be nifty and a training queue would be a boon. That having been said, the other side of the argument begs why you shouldn't have to play a character who's training a long skill?
This coming from a guy who's got quite a few skills at V and who hasn't gone inactive for them.
(And to all the peeps bemoaning what a "weak" or "mediocre" game Eve is ... why don't you just quit, then? Really. Just go.)
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Adam Slysphere
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Posted - 2008.10.14 14:32:00 -
[1808]
Originally by: Ratio Legis
Originally by: Adam Slysphere If you're that strapped for cash, perhaps EVE should be way down on the priorities list?
And you are arguing that it's a good change that would prompt a person to reevaluate his RL priorities and realize he's actually too poor to support his hoby, while a week ago he was not?
I fail to see how this is impacting him ... If he was just running one account it's still going to be the same for him. And seriously, if he's that strapped for cash is running two accounts really that good of an idea?
I'm not trolling and I'm all for people having a hobby and what not. All I'm saying is that if someone is that strapped for cash than perhaps he should focus less on an internet spaceship game and put his money elsewhere. Am I wrong in suggesting that people spend their money on important things in life instead of a video game? lol
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Karina Mei
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.10.14 14:32:00 -
[1809]
Originally by: Adam Slysphere
Originally by: Karina Mei
Depends on how many lots of $15 you're paying out, and what else you've got as an outgoing... Eve isn't the only thing that costs.
Yeah, see that's my point ... If you're that strapped for cash, perhaps EVE should be way down on the priorities list?
Which is maybe going to be the reaction of a lot of people with numerous accounts. Personally this is my reaction to the change, but not down to the money issue. Mine is more due to the fact that I don't get to play much and just keep characters ghost training so I've got some incentive to come back to the game at a point in the future and start paying for all my accounts.
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Adam Slysphere
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Posted - 2008.10.14 14:33:00 -
[1810]
Originally by: Lag This change is complete crap.
Why should I pay for a months time that my character will not be able to do anything?
it is doing something. It's learning a new skill ...
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Poleander
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.10.14 14:33:00 -
[1811]
Originally by: Lag This change is complete crap.
Why should I pay for a months time that my character will not be able to do anything?
why will he not be able to do anything? and why should the value of inactive accounts be increased without them being paid for?
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Jel Ting
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Posted - 2008.10.14 14:33:00 -
[1812]
I don't understand the referals to this ghost training as a selling point? I never saw it in an ad. I know that training a skill while you are logged off is a selling point. This is a Balance issue too. People are power leveling, I say this even though eve has no real equivalance, but for arguments sake let's assume the normal char progression is to train frigates, then go to interceptors or assault frigates, then train for cov ops, recons, hacs, command ships, BS 5, and finally Capital ships and beyond, well that's like 2-3 years in training but you have a pilot that can fly most of a races ships and has support skills across the board. Now if a character is made and simply a course plotted for capital ships you could get there in less than a year and do it by only paying lets say 6 months. So what we have is lots of people creating alts training them to dreads only paying 50% and distorting the balance of characters on the server. I'm not a big alt fan myself, I think Eve should only allow one client to run on a system myself, but if one wants to create an alt and train him anyway he see's fit fine, but pay for it. Money limits things, so if people are spending less on alts then they can create more, this drives down the price of characters and floods the game with "cheap" and plentiful cap pilots and hulks, this is not good for the balance IMHO. I want people to care what they train and train what they play, not train for caps because it's the best way to train long skills for free or reduced cost. For those of you that can't wait 2-4 weeks for a skill to train, put down the caffeine, for the longer skills like 60-80 days, why not wait until your character has other stuff trained before going right for Capitals 5? oh wait you can't play the toon when you train for that because your character has crap skills and can only fly the prerequisites to capitals, tough *****, train an inty they are a blast, stop whining and start playing the game. Don't ***** cause you started in 07 and some guy from 04 has a titan and you don't, and you don't get to catch up to him by hardly paying. Play the game
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Signaldog
Gallente Cloak and Daggers
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Posted - 2008.10.14 14:33:00 -
[1813]
Originally by: Lag This change is complete crap.
Why should I pay for a months time that my character will not be able to do anything?
You can do something...in fact, you can do anything you want, but most importantly, you can PLAY the game you are paying for...nothing says you can't play and train a skill at the same time....I've got BS V on one account (paid for non-stop) and Enough skills/SP to fly a Rorq on a second account (paid for non-stop) and have PLAYED the game the entire time.
READ MY SALVAGER THREAD HERE!!!!
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IR Scoutar
Caldari State War Academy
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Posted - 2008.10.14 14:34:00 -
[1814]
it may be just me but ive never seen that account maintanance page ever
great stuff great stuff
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Mriss
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Posted - 2008.10.14 14:34:00 -
[1815]
Account management being disabled is icing on the dirt cake.
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Triksterism
Gallente Frozen Corpse Inspection Services United Federation of Capsuleers
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Posted - 2008.10.14 14:34:00 -
[1816]
Originally by: Adam Slysphere
Originally by: Lag This change is complete crap.
Why should I pay for a months time that my character will not be able to do anything?
it is doing something. It's learning a new skill ...
Which is basically just a clock ticking while you take a break from the game. No bandwidth use and anyone is free to do it. - Ghost Train & Snowflake
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ATARI BABY
Lords Of Guile
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Posted - 2008.10.14 14:34:00 -
[1817]
Originally by: lucy stirling Well i don't see what is wrong what CCP are doing.
I have two characters and there payed for i think if you want more then 1 character then you must be willing to pay for it as you are the one that desided you have another character.
To me it make perfect sence as CCP is a game that people love and hate sometimes. CCP make a great game and for them to make this great game and improve it they need people to pay for there time on the game.
I know this upset people but they need to know they are a Company that has people that work for them and very good people too and they have to pay there wages and so on.
May agaist other people i am not just i can understand what CCP are doing.
my sig tells ya whats wrong.
LIE |
Koyama Ise
Caldari Equestrian Knight Order of Lolicon
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Posted - 2008.10.14 14:34:00 -
[1818]
CCP before you go bankrupt and lose your servers... release the source code... ----- Cause it can't be quoted enough.
Originally by: Damned Force Something like: Nanoships need a nerf but only the 10km/s+ ships. Nano HACs to slowboating Battleships wil be ****ed by this nerf.
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Helios vector
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Posted - 2008.10.14 14:35:00 -
[1819]
i feel like i was just led into a dark alley by a man called CCP who offered my a piece of candy called EVEonline. when i was far enough in the alleyway..... He ****d me.
thats how this "bug" fix makes me feel.
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Aprudena Gist
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.10.14 14:35:00 -
[1820]
Originally by: Mriss Account management being disabled is icing on the dirt cake.
yea this is really annyoing.
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Damned Force
Minmatar Republic Military School
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Posted - 2008.10.14 14:35:00 -
[1821]
Make get xp just if u online. much more than now, cca 3-5x the ammount and just if peoples online, BUT THAN LET THEM JUST PAY FOR THE TIME THEY PLAYING
let say 7-8 cent/hour
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Mask Fedor
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Posted - 2008.10.14 14:35:00 -
[1822]
Well, EvE is sucking more and more every day anyway..
http://www.eve-online.com/guide/en/g615.asp
Yes, worked as intended before, but now is haxxx
Anyway, goodbye 2 alts (cap pilots).
My main was already cancelled before.
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SSgt Sniper
Gallente MAIDS
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Posted - 2008.10.14 14:36:00 -
[1823]
Originally by: Mriss Account management being disabled is icing on the dirt cake.
Stop payment on the credit card, push come to shove.
------- CEO of Maids. No I didn't pick the name. I've grown rather fond of it though.
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Arrs Grazznic
Poena Executive Solutions
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Posted - 2008.10.14 14:37:00 -
[1824]
Originally by: Lag This change is complete crap.
Why should I pay for a months time that my character will not be able to do anything?
Eh? Training a skill does not prevent you playing!
Personally I'm aginst the change, but you do not need to ghost train to learn all those level 5 skills!
Cheers, Arrs
Quote: Is it just me who says "what can I do in real life: drink beer; walk around; put on clothes; fly a spaceship firing at other spaceships" and then use that to choose what I do on the internet?
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JanSVK
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Posted - 2008.10.14 14:37:00 -
[1825]
I understand your resons. I am not happy but understand. Now give us skill queue. I already lost weeks of training time due to unexpected server bugs and errors in game and such things and the only way to get that lost time back was to put up a longer skill when I was taking a break from the game. If it is such a problem that a skill could be finished on an inactive account, the same priority should go to prevent skills not being trained on active accounts.
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Adam Slysphere
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Posted - 2008.10.14 14:37:00 -
[1826]
Originally by: Signaldog
Originally by: Lag This change is complete crap.
Why should I pay for a months time that my character will not be able to do anything?
You can do something...in fact, you can do anything you want, but most importantly, you can PLAY the game you are paying for...nothing says you can't play and train a skill at the same time....I've got BS V on one account (paid for non-stop) and Enough skills/SP to fly a Rorq on a second account (paid for non-stop) and have PLAYED the game the entire time.
You win the award for posting like you haven't been hit in the head repeatedly with a blunt object. You're check will be presented to you at a celebration to be set at a later date.
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BIind
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Posted - 2008.10.14 14:38:00 -
[1827]
CCP, you better start improving the game in a way that does not make alts a requirement if you want to get somewhere.
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AlphaViscera
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Posted - 2008.10.14 14:40:00 -
[1828]
I see the only trade off is to allow us to have more than one characters on each account training skills concurrently.
CCP to your playerbase, you either get one account paid in full for 12 months of a year, or you get nothing
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Mriss
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Posted - 2008.10.14 14:41:00 -
[1829]
Originally by: SSgt Sniper
Originally by: Mriss Account management being disabled is icing on the dirt cake.
Stop payment on the credit card, push come to shove.
I actually tried that. They (bank) would not allow it "as we cannot know should you have received the services already that you were supposed to pay for".
The only way to stop the payments would actually be to terminate the bank account.
Quite... Interesting.
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ingenting
20th Legion Southern Cross Alliance
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Posted - 2008.10.14 14:41:00 -
[1830]
_________________
- "Welcome to EVE, remember to insu *BAAOOM*... Told you, newb." |
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Jel Ting
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Posted - 2008.10.14 14:41:00 -
[1831]
Originally by: Lag This change is complete crap.
Why should I pay for a months time that my character will not be able to do anything?
WTF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! WHEN DOES TRAINING A LONG SKILL MAKE YOUR CHARACTER UNABLE TO UNDOCK?
Everyone acts like OMG what do I do while BS 5 is training? Fracking play the mother fracking game you morons!!! Jesus!! Oh no I can't go run a mission I don't have my BS 5 trained, my mining lasers don't work either! Why can't I undock while I have a skill training? Curse you CCP! Oh wait, no everything sems to be working just fine.
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Annaphera
Minmatar Super Green Industries
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Posted - 2008.10.14 14:41:00 -
[1832]
Originally by: Gael Itrus It was my plan to open a second account to train for caps. I'm afraid that isn't going to happen with these changes.
Also, don't call something a bug when you've previously framed it as a feature.
Quote: Skills continue training even if you are logged off or if your account is inactive (in the second scenario you can't change skill training, though). As a result, it is a good idea to train short skills while you are playing and longer ones when you log off.
How to train skills, 3rd paragraph. [http://www.eve-online.com/guide/en/g615.asp]
Wow. 59 pages in, and there are still people assuming that documentation=intent, or even that a single line buried in the players' guide means it was used as a "selling point" (I know you didn't Gael, but others are). Guess what, like jetcan mining, this just kind of happened. Like jetcan mining, they decided to let it go because it was a minor issue, and could be seen as a rare positive "bug". It got documented as "how the software functions". Now it causes them trouble, as it is now systematically abused, so they are getting rid of it.
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Virgo I'Platonicus
Ex Eventus Corpi
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Posted - 2008.10.14 14:41:00 -
[1833]
Originally by: Jel Ting I don't understand the referals to this ghost training as a selling point? I never saw it in an ad. I know that training a skill while you are logged off is a selling point. This is a Balance issue too. People are power leveling, I say this even though eve has no real equivalance, but for arguments sake let's assume the normal char progression is to train frigates, then go to interceptors or assault frigates, then train for cov ops, recons, hacs, command ships, BS 5, and finally Capital ships and beyond, well that's like 2-3 years in training but you have a pilot that can fly most of a races ships and has support skills across the board. Now if a character is made and simply a course plotted for capital ships you could get there in less than a year and do it by only paying lets say 6 months. So what we have is lots of people creating alts training them to dreads only paying 50% and distorting the balance of characters on the server. I'm not a big alt fan myself, I think Eve should only allow one client to run on a system myself, but if one wants to create an alt and train him anyway he see's fit fine, but pay for it. Money limits things, so if people are spending less on alts then they can create more, this drives down the price of characters and floods the game with "cheap" and plentiful cap pilots and hulks, this is not good for the balance IMHO. I want people to care what they train and train what they play, not train for caps because it's the best way to train long skills for free or reduced cost. For those of you that can't wait 2-4 weeks for a skill to train, put down the caffeine, for the longer skills like 60-80 days, why not wait until your character has other stuff trained before going right for Capitals 5? oh wait you can't play the toon when you train for that because your character has crap skills and can only fly the prerequisites to capitals, tough *****, train an inty they are a blast, stop whining and start playing the game. Don't ***** cause you started in 07 and some guy from 04 has a titan and you don't, and you don't get to catch up to him by hardly paying. Play the game
Why? What's the point in playing a char that can't do shit ( and the first 45 days in skill training are a complete waste of time in EVE-sense of gameplay). You don't get more skill points by playing like u used to back in 2003. So why play? It'd be ok if you could get faster SP by activelly doing the thing you're skilling (like gettin sp for firing specific gun and so on) - you don't.
This gimps new players and old players who will more or less stop looking forward to finding something new in eve.
You never saw it in an add? Let me help u there: link - 4th paragraph.
ah well.
V.
<3 |
Adam Slysphere
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Posted - 2008.10.14 14:42:00 -
[1834]
Originally by: Triksterism
Originally by: Adam Slysphere
Originally by: Lag This change is complete crap.
Why should I pay for a months time that my character will not be able to do anything?
it is doing something. It's learning a new skill ...
Which is basically just a clock ticking while you take a break from the game. No bandwidth use and anyone is free to do it.
As someone stated earlier: Why should a character gain in value when there's no money being spent on said character?
What other service in the world allows you to use it without being paid for in a consistent manor? Does the phone company not bill you on the days you don't make any phone calls? Does your ISP not charge your for the days you don't serf the web? You're receiving a service and your character is progressing. You should have to pay for said service.
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Patric Riegns
Minmatar Lazy Twats Inc
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Posted - 2008.10.14 14:42:00 -
[1835]
The posters who write off the threats of players quitting you do understand your in a symbiotic relationship with the other players right? Real or imagined the perception that CCP is lying and treating the customers with contempt is right in front of your eyes. The fact that a 100 pages and counting have already been generated with 90% disapproval rating cannot be dismissed as easily as you seem to imagine. New players will be put off by the negative publicity, many established players will no longer recommend the game to friends, family and colleagues. Add in the discontent with the proposed speed nerf and the perception that it lacks any finesse, strategic foresight, balance or even the nucleus of good programming practice will not be going away either. This means Eve Online is on the cusp of a potentially major decline which may well result in the game disappearing altogether. As 0.0 alliances have proved bad decisions cumulatively taken can have a cascade effect that result in total collapse. Eve Online may be about to learn the same lesson. Then we all lose.
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Jel Ting
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Posted - 2008.10.14 14:42:00 -
[1836]
Originally by: Mask Fedor Well, EvE is sucking more and more every day anyway..
http://www.eve-online.com/guide/en/g615.asp
Yes, worked as intended before, but now is haxxx
Anyway, goodbye 2 alts (cap pilots).
My main was already cancelled before.
Bye Bye, don't let the jumpgate hit your ass on the way out.
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Adam Reed
Black Thorne Corporation Black Thorne Alliance
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Posted - 2008.10.14 14:42:00 -
[1837]
What utter nonsense, how can people be so blinkered as to think that there's any commercial benefit in CCP allowing people to train skills like this? They are a company trying to make a profit, and as much as I'm in favour of smashing capitalism if you're going to have it you have to accept that companies will do what they can to maximse profits.
Frankly I didn't know that this 'ghost training' existed and was surprised to hear that it did, and has lasted so long. To the people moaning about this change, shut up and pay like the rest of us, or sod off and play Guild Wars. Fair play to CCP I say. -------------
"I don't mean to sound cruel or harsh, but I am, so that's how it comes out." |
Gedhay
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 14:43:00 -
[1838]
Originally by: JanSVK I understand your resons. I am not happy but understand. Now give us skill queue. I already lost weeks of training time due to unexpected server bugs and errors in game and such things and the only way to get that lost time back was to put up a longer skill when I was taking a break from the game. If it is such a problem that a skill could be finished on an inactive account, the same priority should go to prevent skills not being trained on active accounts.
I subscribe to that!!! And to be able to train on the other 2 char that an payed account offers u
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ATARI BABY
Lords Of Guile
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Posted - 2008.10.14 14:43:00 -
[1839]
Originally by: Gajowy http://www.eve-online.com/guide/en/g615.asp "Skills continue training even if you are logged off or if your account is inactive (in the second scenario you can't change skill training, though)."
CCP THERE IS A BUG IN PLAYER GUIDE FROM OVER 5 YEARS
hope they can hear me and fix this fast enough before people will feel that they are treated like idiots
too late for total cleanup.
LIE |
IR Scoutar
Caldari State War Academy
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Posted - 2008.10.14 14:43:00 -
[1840]
Originally by: Koyama Ise CCP before you go bankrupt and lose your servers... release the source code...
why the hell would you want the source code what you want is the IP or a free license to the eve universe
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Triksterism
Gallente Frozen Corpse Inspection Services United Federation of Capsuleers
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Posted - 2008.10.14 14:43:00 -
[1841]
Originally by: Jel Ting
Originally by: Lag This change is complete crap.
Why should I pay for a months time that my character will not be able to do anything?
WTF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! WHEN DOES TRAINING A LONG SKILL MAKE YOUR CHARACTER UNABLE TO UNDOCK?
Everyone acts like OMG what do I do while BS 5 is training? Fracking play the mother fracking game you morons!!! Jesus!! Oh no I can't go run a mission I don't have my BS 5 trained, my mining lasers don't work either! Why can't I undock while I have a skill training? Curse you CCP! Oh wait, no everything sems to be working just fine.
You're missing the point. Not everyone ghost trains their level 5's. However, it is a popular thing to do when people want to take a break from eve. People should have the option. It is what CCP promoted and it is what has attracted many people to the game.
-
Ghost Train & Snowflake |
Todoshi
Caldari Caldari Logistics and Supplies
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Posted - 2008.10.14 14:43:00 -
[1842]
although it probably won't effect ccp to much, lets face it there will still be 30k+ players logged in tonight and tommorow and the day after that
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Adam Slysphere
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 14:44:00 -
[1843]
Originally by: Jel Ting
Originally by: Lag This change is complete crap.
Why should I pay for a months time that my character will not be able to do anything?
WTF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! WHEN DOES TRAINING A LONG SKILL MAKE YOUR CHARACTER UNABLE TO UNDOCK?
Everyone acts like OMG what do I do while BS 5 is training? Fracking play the mother fracking game you morons!!! Jesus!! Oh no I can't go run a mission I don't have my BS 5 trained, my mining lasers don't work either! Why can't I undock while I have a skill training? Curse you CCP! Oh wait, no everything sems to be working just fine.
QFT
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Ratio Legis
Slacker Industries
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Posted - 2008.10.14 14:45:00 -
[1844]
Edited by: Ratio Legis on 14/10/2008 14:45:14
Originally by: Adam Slysphere
Originally by: Ratio Legis
Originally by: Adam Slysphere If you're that strapped for cash, perhaps EVE should be way down on the priorities list?
And you are arguing that it's a good change that would prompt a person to reevaluate his RL priorities and realize he's actually too poor to support his hoby, while a week ago he was not?
I fail to see how this is impacting him ... If he was just running one account it's still going to be the same for him. And seriously, if he's that strapped for cash is running two accounts really that good of an idea?
I'm not trolling and I'm all for people having a hobby and what not. All I'm saying is that if someone is that strapped for cash than perhaps he should focus less on an internet spaceship game and put his money elsewhere. Am I wrong in suggesting that people spend their money on important things in life instead of a video game? lol
You mean you fail to see how upping the price of the service might affect a poor person to stop using the service? Because that's what just happened - CCP have announced how people need to pay more for getting the same thing. With the same justification you could argue that it's ok to double the subscription fee for everyone and the poor people can start paying for each second month, missing half the time. That's not how things work.
And yes, you are wrong suggesting that you know better than people how and where they should spend their time and money.
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KingBobs Dawn
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Posted - 2008.10.14 14:45:00 -
[1845]
paying 35 dollar every 2 months is too much for skilltraining or better an boring look on your skills an see how many weeks remains....
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Virgo I'Platonicus
Ex Eventus Corpi
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Posted - 2008.10.14 14:45:00 -
[1846]
Perhaps allow ghost training for 25 - 30% the monthly fee?
V. <3 |
Dlightfull
e-PWN
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 14:45:00 -
[1847]
Originally by: Adam Slysphere
I'm not trolling and I'm all for people having a hobby and what not. All I'm saying is that if someone is that strapped for cash than perhaps he should focus less on an internet spaceship game and put his money elsewhere. Am I wrong in suggesting that people spend their money on important things in life instead of a video game? lol
I never payd irl money for eve, always isk, and i was able to keep 1 account active always, while 2 others were active 7-8months/year, rest of time on ghost training. The first account is the 1 i make isk on and the other 2 are pvp characters-the cahracters i have fun with. Now, with these changes, i can't keep even 2 accounts active and what's the point in keeping the money making 1 if i don't have fun on it? |
Moon Kitten
GoonFleet
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Posted - 2008.10.14 14:46:00 -
[1848]
Originally by: Adam Reed What utter nonsense, how can people be so blinkered as to think that there's any commercial benefit in CCP allowing people to train skills like this? They are a company trying to make a profit, and as much as I'm in favour of smashing capitalism if you're going to have it you have to accept that companies will do what they can to maximse profits.
Frankly I didn't know that this 'ghost training' existed and was surprised to hear that it did, and has lasted so long. To the people moaning about this change, shut up and pay like the rest of us, or sod off and play Guild Wars. Fair play to CCP I say.
Stop thinking about the quarterly financial report and start thinking more long term. Perhaps in terms of years.
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ATARI BABY
Lords Of Guile
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Posted - 2008.10.14 14:46:00 -
[1849]
Originally by: IR Scoutar
Originally by: Koyama Ise CCP before you go bankrupt and lose your servers... release the source code...
why the hell would you want the source code what you want is the IP or a free license to the eve universe
source code mean private servers. private servers mean free play.
LIE |
Wygg
Minmatar Hadean Drive Yards Archaean Cooperative
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Posted - 2008.10.14 14:47:00 -
[1850]
Originally by: Triksterism You're missing the point. Not everyone ghost trains their level 5's. However, it is a popular thing to do when people want to take a break from eve. People should have the option. It is what CCP promoted and it is what has attracted many people to the game.
The converse is Why should you get Carrier V without paying for it?
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Virgo I'Platonicus
Ex Eventus Corpi
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Posted - 2008.10.14 14:47:00 -
[1851]
Originally by: Moon Kitten
Stop thinking about the quarterly financial report and start thinking more long term. Perhaps in terms of years.
Ok.
Eve becomes a sad idea, lower than wow, cause all old players leave, alts stop training, newbs quit before 2 months game time?
This goes for 2 years? :)) <3 |
KingBobs Dawn
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Posted - 2008.10.14 14:47:00 -
[1852]
Originally by: Virgo I'Platonicus Perhaps allow ghost training for 25 - 30% the monthly fee?
V.
with managment yes this can be nice
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Triksterism
Gallente Frozen Corpse Inspection Services United Federation of Capsuleers
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Posted - 2008.10.14 14:47:00 -
[1853]
Originally by: Virgo I'Platonicus Perhaps allow ghost training for 25 - 30% the monthly fee?
V.
Or at least give us skill queues or training for multiple characters per account. -
Ghost Train & Snowflake |
chotaire
Caldari The Rising Stars Cosmic Anomalies
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Posted - 2008.10.14 14:48:00 -
[1854]
Originally by: IR Scoutar
Originally by: Koyama Ise CCP before you go bankrupt and lose your servers... release the source code...
why the hell would you want the source code what you want is the IP or a free license to the eve universe
Most useless and nonsense post of this thread, congratulations ;)
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KingBobs Dawn
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Posted - 2008.10.14 14:48:00 -
[1855]
Edited by: KingBobs Dawn on 14/10/2008 14:51:08 Edited by: KingBobs Dawn on 14/10/2008 14:48:27
Originally by: KingBobs Dawn
Originally by: Virgo I'Platonicus Perhaps allow ghost training for 25 - 30% the monthly fee?
V.
with managment yes this can be nice
>>>>or enable all chars on an account can train a skill at the same time or is this no bug CCP?
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Aenemah
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.10.14 14:48:00 -
[1856]
Originally by: Triksterism
Not everyone ghost trains their level 5's. However, it is a popular thing to do when people want to take a break from eve. People should have the option. It is what CCP promoted and it is what has attracted many people to the game.
This. _ Veni, Vidi, Warpi. I came, I saw, I warped the hell out... |
Adam Slysphere
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Posted - 2008.10.14 14:49:00 -
[1857]
Originally by: Ratio Legis Edited by: Ratio Legis on 14/10/2008 14:45:14
Originally by: Adam Slysphere
Originally by: Ratio Legis
Originally by: Adam Slysphere If you're that strapped for cash, perhaps EVE should be way down on the priorities list?
And you are arguing that it's a good change that would prompt a person to reevaluate his RL priorities and realize he's actually too poor to support his hoby, while a week ago he was not?
I fail to see how this is impacting him ... If he was just running one account it's still going to be the same for him. And seriously, if he's that strapped for cash is running two accounts really that good of an idea?
I'm not trolling and I'm all for people having a hobby and what not. All I'm saying is that if someone is that strapped for cash than perhaps he should focus less on an internet spaceship game and put his money elsewhere. Am I wrong in suggesting that people spend their money on important things in life instead of a video game? lol
You mean you fail to see how upping the price of the service might affect a poor person to stop using the service? Because that's what just happened - CCP have announced how people need to pay more for getting the same thing. With the same justification you could argue that it's ok to double the subscription fee for everyone and the poor people can start paying for each second month, missing half the time. That's not how things work.
And yes, you are wrong suggesting that you know better than people how and where they should spend their time and money.
They're not upping the subscription fee, they're just closing a loop hole that players have been using to improve their characters without paying for the game. Which probably has gotten to be more of a problem since they started allowing characters to be bought and sold.
Hey you're right, I shouldn't be telling the guy what to do with his money. It's best not to try and help people by making a suggestion and let them be idiots and hurt themselves. I say remove the safety warning from all products and let Darwinism take over.
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Triksterism
Gallente Frozen Corpse Inspection Services United Federation of Capsuleers
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Posted - 2008.10.14 14:50:00 -
[1858]
Edited by: Triksterism on 14/10/2008 14:50:16
Originally by: Wygg
Originally by: Triksterism You're missing the point. Not everyone ghost trains their level 5's. However, it is a popular thing to do when people want to take a break from eve. People should have the option. It is what CCP promoted and it is what has attracted many people to the game.
The converse is Why should you get Carrier V without paying for it?
$30 for Carrier V, don't think many people would train it if they had to pay for it. Those cap skills are quite lengthy at level 5. -
Ghost Train & Snowflake |
Jel Ting
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Posted - 2008.10.14 14:50:00 -
[1859]
Originally by: Virgo I'Platonicus
Originally by: Jel Ting Play the game
Why? What's the point in playing a char that can't do shit ( and the first 45 days in skill training are a complete waste of time in EVE-sense of gameplay). You don't get more skill points by playing like u used to back in 2003. So why play? It'd be ok if you could get faster SP by activelly doing the thing you're skilling (like gettin sp for firing specific gun and so on) - you don't.
This gimps new players and old players who will more or less stop looking forward to finding something new in eve.
You never saw it in an add? Let me help u there: link - 4th paragraph.
ah well.
V.
That is a guide, it tells you what to expect, not what is intent. It's not a mission statement or add stating we made it this way for you. We can get lawyered up for a semantic debate, but nah. So new players shouldn't play the game and figure things out? They shouldn't start with a frigate and lvl 1 missions? I started with 15k sp, now people start with 800-900k so your point is invalide withing 2 weeks of a new char now you can be in a t2 frigate with t2 weapons, so cry me a river, as for older players they have older chars they can wait for hulks to train or whatever and play their old account. I still think the character farming is a big aspect we are overlooking, why train one dread pilot when for the same cost I can train 2 and sell one to finance the hardware? So once again play the game, dont power level without paying. If you want to train and do whatever fine, just now you have to pay like the rest of us.
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Virgo I'Platonicus
Ex Eventus Corpi
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Posted - 2008.10.14 14:50:00 -
[1860]
nice carrier pic :) <3 |
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Triksterism
Gallente Frozen Corpse Inspection Services United Federation of Capsuleers
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Posted - 2008.10.14 14:51:00 -
[1861]
Originally by: Virgo I'Platonicus nice carrier pic :)
Ghost train! :D -
Ghost Train & Snowflake |
Signaldog
Gallente Cloak and Daggers
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Posted - 2008.10.14 14:51:00 -
[1862]
Originally by: Triksterism Edited by: Triksterism on 14/10/2008 14:50:16
Originally by: Wygg
Originally by: Triksterism You're missing the point. Not everyone ghost trains their level 5's. However, it is a popular thing to do when people want to take a break from eve. People should have the option. It is what CCP promoted and it is what has attracted many people to the game.
The converse is Why should you get Carrier V without paying for it?
$30 for Carrier V, don't think many people would train it if they had to pay for it. Those cap skills are quite lengthy at level 5.
I still just don't get it...you are paying to PLAY, not to learn a skill. CCP screwed up when they did this, only because of HOW they did it.
READ MY SALVAGER THREAD HERE!!!!
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Adam Reed
Black Thorne Corporation Black Thorne Alliance
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Posted - 2008.10.14 14:51:00 -
[1863]
Originally by: Moon Kitten
Originally by: Adam Reed What utter nonsense, how can people be so blinkered as to think that there's any commercial benefit in CCP allowing people to train skills like this? They are a company trying to make a profit, and as much as I'm in favour of smashing capitalism if you're going to have it you have to accept that companies will do what they can to maximse profits.
Frankly I didn't know that this 'ghost training' existed and was surprised to hear that it did, and has lasted so long. To the people moaning about this change, shut up and pay like the rest of us, or sod off and play Guild Wars. Fair play to CCP I say.
Stop thinking about the quarterly financial report and start thinking more long term. Perhaps in terms of years.
What? They are a company, a profit-making company. Why should they provide a service to people who aren't paying them? Justify that in any other industry and I'll pay attention.
If your point is that allowing it will help them somewhere down the line, you've lost me, I don't see how it would. The board of CCP will have considered that when they made the decision and wouldn't have done it if it's likely to impact future profits. -------------
"I don't mean to sound cruel or harsh, but I am, so that's how it comes out." |
Wet Ferret
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Posted - 2008.10.14 14:52:00 -
[1864]
I'm silently laughing at all the morons in this thread that are applauding CCP for becoming more and more like all of the other big names that everybody absolutely despises.
Yes, good job CCP, good job. But, yeah. These forums seriously need some indicator that the post has ended and the sig has started.
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Wygg
Minmatar Hadean Drive Yards Archaean Cooperative
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Posted - 2008.10.14 14:53:00 -
[1865]
Originally by: Triksterism
Originally by: Wygg The converse is Why should you get Carrier V without paying for it?
$30 for Carrier V, don't think many people would train it if they had to pay for it. Those cap skills are quite lengthy at level 5.
Well, that would make having them that much more special now, wouldn't it?
I still think barring parked characters for resale is the way to go. Go inactive for more than 50% of your life-span the character is locked and can't get sold. Simple, elequent, and doesn't affect players who ghost train to actually play the characters.
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Seth Ruin
Minmatar Ominous Corp Ethereal Dawn
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Posted - 2008.10.14 14:53:00 -
[1866]
Originally by: chotaire
Originally by: IR Scoutar
Originally by: Koyama Ise CCP before you go bankrupt and lose your servers... release the source code...
why the hell would you want the source code what you want is the IP or a free license to the eve universe
Most useless and nonsense post of this thread, congratulations ;)
Far from it.
IP in this context refers to "Intellectual Property," and "license" in this context refers to the legal right to use said intellectual property...
Source code will only tell you how the servers work. Without a license, you're not legally allowed to do anything with the source. Hell, even open-source software has a license (GPL and such).
Or, y'know, you can just sit there and look at hundreds of thousands (if not over a million) lines of code...
-- (CCP Inconsistency)
Why cover it up? We KNOW it's all just about money |
Mriss
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 14:53:00 -
[1867]
Originally by: Jel Ting
So once again play the game, dont power level without paying. If you want to train and do whatever fine, just now you have to pay like the rest of us.
Never ever heard of anybody who could "train and do whatever" without actually paying.
Are you actually missing the whole point here.
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Dathremar
The Maverick Navy Pupule 'Ohana
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Posted - 2008.10.14 14:53:00 -
[1868]
Well I'll throw my opinion into this threadnaught.
I completely, 100% disapprove of this action. If for any reason but the completely unnecessary lies that CCP used for justification.
There wouldn't be nearly this much complaining (believe me there would still be plenty) if CCP just came out and said that they are changing this due to economic stress and believed that this was a change that could increase profits. That is something I can at least approve, even though I can't see how this would help you guys in any way. But instead you first tell us that it will help those of us that haven't abused this "system" which has been completely backed by CCP from the start and THEN when you guys realized that many people were upset by this change you labeled it a bug. This is clearly not a bug, it's been on guides since the game was released. It is also what many here believe to be a very nice game mechanic.
Does CCP really believe that this will increase profits? Really? Do you know how many people take extended breaks from the game and then come back only after a few months to be greeted by "Skill Training Completed" and have something like Battleship V completed? They will stick around after that and I think many people agree that seeing one of those long skills completed after a break is refreshing and gets you back into the game. If I take an extended break from the game, what is the incentive to come back. Everyone, EVERYONE, hates month long training times. There is not a single person and if you take a break and come back to just see mountains of training then you may not want to continue playing.
CCP this is not a good decision. In fact I see this as a terrible change, probably the worst I've seen so far (my year anniversary is coming up). I can understand that today we are seeing massive economic swings, but don't forget that we as consumers are affected too. This change makes me reconsider paying for two accounts especially considering how things have been going so far (I am not in favor of the upcoming nano nerfs). This will only hurt you guys from my standpoint.
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BIind
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Posted - 2008.10.14 14:53:00 -
[1869]
Originally by: Todoshi although it probably won't effect ccp to much, lets face it there will still be 30k+ players logged in tonight and tommorow and the day after that
Quite frankly the number of people currently logged in does not reflect the amount of soon to would have been cap/R&D/whatnot alts that will not be resubbed. I'm sure they've done the math but they can not just keep pushing game mechanics that pretty much require you to outsource tasks to well trained alts and then one day decide to cash in on it.
The fact that the account management page is down is just the icing on the cake.
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LadyMaverick
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Posted - 2008.10.14 14:53:00 -
[1870]
I liked this game, because it gave me options. I could go on vacation and have skills being trained. I could start a new account and train for freighter, falcon, hulk pilot, while keeping it active from time to time and ghost training meanwhile playing on other accounts, and then re-activating fully when I could fly the actual thing. I was able to experience something new everytime.
But now, I've lost all of my interest to pay for accounts that I can't use fully. I'm not gonna pay for being able to fly freaking frigate, while training for a freighter.
You fail horribly in understanding your playerbase.
There goes bye bye my subscription..for as someone said, 'Purely for lying to us, you shameless money grabbing corporate *****s'
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Virgo I'Platonicus
Ex Eventus Corpi
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Posted - 2008.10.14 14:53:00 -
[1871]
Originally by: Jel Ting
That is a guide, it tells you what to expect, not what is intent. It's not a mission statement or add stating we made it this way for you. We can get lawyered up for a semantic debate, but nah. So new players shouldn't play the game and figure things out? They shouldn't start with a frigate and lvl 1 missions? I started with 15k sp, now people start with 800-900k so your point is invalide withing 2 weeks of a new char now you can be in a t2 frigate with t2 weapons, so cry me a river, as for older players they have older chars they can wait for hulks to train or whatever and play their old account. I still think the character farming is a big aspect we are overlooking, why train one dread pilot when for the same cost I can train 2 and sell one to finance the hardware? So once again play the game, dont power level without paying. If you want to train and do whatever fine, just now you have to pay like the rest of us.
You started with 15k SP? Poor man. Was EVE fun for you back then? :) I started with 8k, because I wanted to specialise in something else than what EVE system offered me back then. I had an excel sheet ready to train for 45 days straight just to get all learning bonuses. It was, it is a shitty period in game char development. The new 1 mio starting SP bonus is what had to be done to get new players coming into the game, and with this payment change that barrier should be upped to 2 mio to get people interested again, not lowered for the sake of grumpy old farts like you and me :)
V.
<3 |
Chad Awesomelaser
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Posted - 2008.10.14 14:53:00 -
[1872]
I need 3 more 30 day skills to get to use Awesome Lasers.
Now I won't live up to my name without paying $45 just for that purpose.
I guess I could petition for a name change to Chad Mediocrelaser.
Chad Adequatelaser?
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Triksterism
Gallente Frozen Corpse Inspection Services United Federation of Capsuleers
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Posted - 2008.10.14 14:54:00 -
[1873]
Originally by: Signaldog
Originally by: Triksterism Edited by: Triksterism on 14/10/2008 14:50:16
Originally by: Wygg
Originally by: Triksterism You're missing the point. Not everyone ghost trains their level 5's. However, it is a popular thing to do when people want to take a break from eve. People should have the option. It is what CCP promoted and it is what has attracted many people to the game.
The converse is Why should you get Carrier V without paying for it?
$30 for Carrier V, don't think many people would train it if they had to pay for it. Those cap skills are quite lengthy at level 5.
I still just don't get it...you are paying to PLAY, not to learn a skill. CCP screwed up when they did this, only because of HOW they did it.
I don't know about you, but if I were to train carrier to 5, the length of the skill would be nagging at the back of my head a lot. Everytime I log in "Dammit! 64 days, grrr!" -
Ghost Train & Snowflake |
Karina Mei
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.10.14 14:54:00 -
[1874]
Originally by: Adam Reed
If your point is that allowing it will help them somewhere down the line, you've lost me, I don't see how it would. The board of CCP will have considered that when they made the decision and wouldn't have done it if it's likely to impact future profits.
And everything they've done in the past has been so well thought out and implemented
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Total Disaster
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Posted - 2008.10.14 14:54:00 -
[1875]
Originally by: Virgo I'Platonicus Perhaps allow ghost training for 25 - 30% the monthly fee?
V.
how about inactive accounts train at a 50% speed (i.e. takes double as long)
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Adam Reed
Black Thorne Corporation Black Thorne Alliance
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Posted - 2008.10.14 14:55:00 -
[1876]
Originally by: Karina Mei
Originally by: Adam Reed
If your point is that allowing it will help them somewhere down the line, you've lost me, I don't see how it would. The board of CCP will have considered that when they made the decision and wouldn't have done it if it's likely to impact future profits.
And everything they've done in the past has been so well thought out and implemented
Fair point. -------------
"I don't mean to sound cruel or harsh, but I am, so that's how it comes out." |
ISIAM
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Posted - 2008.10.14 14:56:00 -
[1877]
I'm Sorry for all the devs, artist, programmers, management, and all other staff that may lose their jobs when C.C.P has to cut back on employees, because of this choice to change their own rules to stay afloat. I do realize That for C.C.P. to have come to this conclusion, It's very infrastructure must be under great stain. I will not speculate as to weather or not this may be the beginning of the end for C.C.P. , But I will say It's so for EVE. I hope That those at C.C.P. responsible for this decision realize Their mistake and move swiftly to right it. I for one would settle for Higher rates or some "else", but to change the very bones that call many to EVE is simply stupid. So in conclusion, I would like all that Find this decision a bad one, spread the word to your friends and corp mates to write, E-mail, and call C.C.P. and let them know, don't just do what we always do and just let it go by the way side. we as consumers do have voice and if they laugh at you then speak with your money. sadly yours, Joel "ISIAM" Carter
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Netuti
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Posted - 2008.10.14 14:57:00 -
[1878]
just nerf, nerf and nerf. And nothing new... What are you doing?
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Karina Mei
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.10.14 14:57:00 -
[1879]
It's not even really what they've done, it's the way it's been done that seems to have got a lot of people annoyed. Blaming it on "database issues" etc was a bit lame IMHO.
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Venus Einstein
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Posted - 2008.10.14 14:57:00 -
[1880]
Originally by: Wet Ferret I'm silently laughing at all the morons in this thread that are applauding CCP for becoming more and more like all of the other big names that everybody absolutely despises.
Yes, good job CCP, good job.
double signed,verified,copyied......
THIS IS THE MESSAGE FOLKS; WHATS COMMING UP NEXT
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Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
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Posted - 2008.10.14 14:58:00 -
[1881]
Originally by: Yakumo Smith Edited by: Yakumo Smith on 13/10/2008 23:30:01 Edited by: Yakumo Smith on 13/10/2008 23:25:50 There was a way to progress a character in EVE without an active subscription CCP noticed a surge in the trend and decided to fix the leak Players now have to pay a subscription for characters to have them progress
Yeah funny thing about the credit crunch and all that, people sometimes lapse subscriptions....spiked recently you say....must be pure coincidence.
I also think you should allow current ghosts to run their course. (I don't ghost train)
Failing that, you should consider emailing all subscribers alerting them to this "bug" fix.
But given it's been running for 5 years, this seems about the right length of time for a "bug" fix for you guys :p
edited to add link to original locked thread to show true vocal effect original outrage thread
I would say between that and the new 60d gtc yep
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Arthmandar Valikari
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.10.14 14:58:00 -
[1882]
Edited by: Arthmandar Valikari on 14/10/2008 15:00:03 Edited by: Arthmandar Valikari on 14/10/2008 14:58:43 I realize I'm hopping on to the 61st page of a thread that nobody who wishes to preserve sanity will actually read, but hey, I pay my dime, I can unoffensively blather on these forums as much as I like.
I am something of a programming nerd. I'm not a betting man, but if I was I would be willing to bet that this is exactly the implementation of the skill system now, and the proposed change. I'm about 99% certain that this is how it is implemented in the first place.
1) When you change a skill, the date of completion is calculated and written in the database. Done. There's no active maintenance of this field. It just sits there. Your client is responsible for checking that value, and for providing you pretty counters and skill completion messages, but really, it's just a single, written once, read a few times, value in the database. It is independent of whether or not your account is active. Every time you log in, the client checks this value to determine if your skill is done; if not, it checks to see when it will be. Hence, if you set a skill and go inactive, there is no database load at all. When you come back, the date is checked, and marked as completed. You now have a new skill. It is extremely low-load on the system. I can't imagine it is any other way.
2) After this change, when you cancel or your subscription runs out, the code to pause active account training will be executed. (A simple calculation based on when you set the skill, now, and when it would complete is done to figure out how many skill points you 'earned', and these are applied). That field in the database is cleared. Again, I can't imagine it is any other way.
So there you have it. If the system has a design as good as this one, there is *no load* on the database for these characters with ghost training. After the change, there will be *light load* on the database to do the skill training pause as subscriptions expire.
I know, this is news to nobody in the thread. I just wanted to point out how completely silly the argument is that this is adding to lag or whatnot.
Edit: you can see that if the system is as simple as I've described it, that a skill queue would be a significant departure from the current system. That's probably why we don't have one. Also, you can see how the original design of the skill system didn't take into account active or inactive accounts; ghost training was simply a consequence of an actual bug that people liked and it was declared a feature. |
Razin
The xDEATHx Squadron Legion of xXDEATHXx
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Posted - 2008.10.14 14:58:00 -
[1883]
Edited by: Razin on 14/10/2008 14:59:41 In on page 61 62 of an epic thread!!1111
P.S. Just goes to show, give the unwashed masses some cheap and simple reason for righteous indignation and they'll go ape shit over it. ...
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Vengal Seyhan
Sten Industries
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Posted - 2008.10.14 14:59:00 -
[1884]
Originally by: Ivor Gunn Edited by: Ivor Gunn on 14/10/2008 00:04:27 Edited by: Ivor Gunn on 14/10/2008 00:01:11
Quote: Ghost Training was an unintended feature
No it wasn't.
Quote: Skills continue training even if you are logged off or if your account is inactive
You contradict your own knowledge base. Pure hypocrisy.
Oh, that's pretty priceless :D Soon to be ret-conned, I predict.
FYI, CCP on the subject of subscriptions: I recently signed up a second account on the Power of 2 program, planning to stick to a tightly focussed six month trainging program, for Interceptors and Amarr ships that my main doesn't fly. I was always then going to be folding this second character back into my main account thereafter.
Your game is good, but not that good.
Considering that I have a set expiry time on my subscription, and no desire to run two acounts in the long run - an in game and out of game (email) subscription expiry reminder would be highly handy, so that I don't get stung with a suddenly inactive account.
PS - Is it coincidence that the Power Of 2 offer just finished? I take it your marketting people were expecting a flurry of sign-ups arising out of this, and didn't want to offer these people the discount package.
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Arestan
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Posted - 2008.10.14 14:59:00 -
[1885]
-2 accounts.
Take care, CCP.
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Shaitis
Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2008.10.14 14:59:00 -
[1886]
Bye CCP
"What is funnier ? 20 Matari slaves pinned to one tree or 1 Matari slave p |
Triksterism
Gallente Frozen Corpse Inspection Services United Federation of Capsuleers
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 14:59:00 -
[1887]
Originally by: Karina Mei It's not even really what they've done, it's the way it's been done that seems to have got a lot of people annoyed. Blaming it on "database issues" etc was a bit lame IMHO.
Solar flares
Aliens
Salamander Invasion Force
Fish Tank ***Database Issues*** -
Ghost Train & Snowflake |
Ratio Legis
Slacker Industries
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 15:00:00 -
[1888]
Originally by: Aenemah
Originally by: Triksterism
Not everyone ghost trains their level 5's. However, it is a popular thing to do when people want to take a break from eve. People should have the option. It is what CCP promoted and it is what has attracted many people to the game.
This.
In fact I know a lot of long time players who ghost-train much and only return from time to time to check on the new toys they trained while they were away. For most of them returning to Eve is motivated almost solely by the ability to play around with new things until they get bored again and take another break. For such people having to pay full time for an account they only sporadically use would not be a viable option. I will not go as far to suggest that forcing them out of the game will amount to a huge financial loss to CCP since I have no idea how many such players there are out there, though if I had to hazard a guess I'd put most people who have stuck around since game launch in this category. However it is a factor to be considered. Personally I know I'd hate to see them gone from the game, at least not as a result of an unambiguous profiteering act by CCP.
|
Signaldog
Gallente Cloak and Daggers
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 15:00:00 -
[1889]
Originally by: Triksterism
Originally by: Signaldog
Originally by: Triksterism Edited by: Triksterism on 14/10/2008 14:50:16
Originally by: Wygg
Originally by: Triksterism You're missing the point. Not everyone ghost trains their level 5's. However, it is a popular thing to do when people want to take a break from eve. People should have the option. It is what CCP promoted and it is what has attracted many people to the game.
The converse is Why should you get Carrier V without paying for it?
$30 for Carrier V, don't think many people would train it if they had to pay for it. Those cap skills are quite lengthy at level 5.
I still just don't get it...you are paying to PLAY, not to learn a skill. CCP screwed up when they did this, only because of HOW they did it.
I don't know about you, but if I were to train carrier to 5, the length of the skill would be nagging at the back of my head a lot. Everytime I log in "Dammit! 64 days, grrr!"
I have done and I ya, i get that "Damnit" quite often, but that doesn't stop me from playing the game. I've got skills planned out for the next 283 days (evemon says so), but that doesn't mean I won't be PLAYING for those 283 days...each skill completed allows me to integrate a new piece of hardware into my specific style of gameplay, whether it's PvP or PvE or market or industry or what have you. Point is, I pay for 2 accounts every month so I can play 2 characters day in and day out (or not for weeks if I choose). CCP screwed up on the manner in which they did this, but I'm still trying to figure out what the BIGGEST issue is:
1) Loss of Ghosting? 2) CCP Actions? 3) SOME players ****ed cause they lost their free ride?
I don't know...someone tell me.
READ MY SALVAGER THREAD HERE!!!!
|
thelung187
Destructive Influence Band of Brothers
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 15:00:00 -
[1890]
Edited by: thelung187 on 14/10/2008 15:02:15
Originally by: Avon Hey, your bug...
Skills continue training even if you are logged off or if your account is inactive
I found it in the player guide.
You guys better get in there and ninja-edit it.
Quoting this due to the lol/"working-as-intended-wait-we-get-more-money-maybe-the-other-way" factor.
edit: glad to see you were able to edit that so quickly, way to be on top of it CCP!
[ 2005.05.19 22:54:23 ] InnerDrive > only solution safespot till you leave or mine in empire till you leave or s |
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Karina Mei
Caldari
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 15:00:00 -
[1891]
Originally by: Venus Einstein
Originally by: Wet Ferret I'm silently laughing at all the morons in this thread that are applauding CCP for becoming more and more like all of the other big names that everybody absolutely despises.
Yes, good job CCP, good job.
double signed,verified,copyied......
THIS IS THE MESSAGE FOLKS; WHATS COMMING UP NEXT
QFT
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Annaphera
Minmatar Super Green Industries
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 15:01:00 -
[1892]
Originally by: Virgo I'Platonicus
Why? What's the point in playing a char that can't do shit ( and the first 45 days in skill training are a complete waste of time in EVE-sense of gameplay). You don't get more skill points by playing like u used to back in 2003. So why play? It'd be ok if you could get faster SP by activelly doing the thing you're skilling (like gettin sp for firing specific gun and so on) - you don't.
This gimps new players and old players who will more or less stop looking forward to finding something new in eve.
You never saw it in an add? Let me help u there: link - 4th paragraph.
ah well.
V.
In no particular order:
1) I have played my character from day one, and received benefit in-game for it. If you honestly couldn't manage level one missions without 45 days of training, you've got a serious problem! I managed them my first day; by the end of the trial period, I was in a cruiser edging in to level 2's.
2)As to WHY play while a long skill is training, I can think of many reasons: get rep; get LP; get isk; run up your killboard; support your corp; null-sec politics; just for the h*** of it! In fact, if you are not doing those things, how are you going to be able (without resorting to a EULA violation) to use that shiny new toy your long skill enables?
3) Good grief - now the player's guide itself is an ad?? The blue screen of death is mentioned in the Windows manual, does that mean it was used as a selling point in an ad?
4) What new thing does this remove from Eve that new players won't get to experience now? It'll take the exact same amount of time to get to high SP...all CCP is asking is that you actually pay for an account as you get there! Nothing really removed.
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Jorel
Developmental Neogenics Amalgamated
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 15:02:00 -
[1893]
Originally by: Adam Reed
Originally by: Moon Kitten
Originally by: Adam Reed What utter nonsense, how can people be so blinkered as to think that there's any commercial benefit in CCP allowing people to train skills like this? They are a company trying to make a profit, and as much as I'm in favour of smashing capitalism if you're going to have it you have to accept that companies will do what they can to maximse profits.
Frankly I didn't know that this 'ghost training' existed and was surprised to hear that it did, and has lasted so long. To the people moaning about this change, shut up and pay like the rest of us, or sod off and play Guild Wars. Fair play to CCP I say.
Stop thinking about the quarterly financial report and start thinking more long term. Perhaps in terms of years.
What? They are a company, a profit-making company. Why should they provide a service to people who aren't paying them? Justify that in any other industry and I'll pay attention.
If your point is that allowing it will help them somewhere down the line, you've lost me, I don't see how it would. The board of CCP will have considered that when they made the decision and wouldn't have done it if it's likely to impact future profits.
Very easy, automotive industry. I paid $25,000 for my car, in cash. My car is insured etc. If I decide I'm going out of country for a couple of months I don't want to pay full insurance cost while my car is sitting in the garage and waiting for me, so I call the insurance company and only put fire and theft coverage, at the same time I take my car into the shop and get my mechanic to do some upgrades (I needed a bigger turbo, injectors, fuel rail etc) [this would be like buying skill books and training them]. So when I come back from vacation in 2 months, I've just saved some money by not paying full insurance and have invested that money into upgrades for my car.
Both the insurance company and my shop have still gotten my money (in this case CCP is both, as the isk spent on skills may have been acquired through GTC sales etc. and if they charged some minimum fee of no more than $5/month for skill training). This way everyone walks away a winner, but alas, they decided to stick it in our ****ers for using a feature that has been in the game for over 5 years.
It will most certainly impact active players in the future, I for one was training a character for my friend to use when he quits WoW. New players will be less likely to acquire a character with ISK (via GTC sales) since there won't be as many characters for sale etc.
I guess I'm not a happy camper, because CCP has just made a liar out of me to all those people whom I recommended the game to, based on this feature (sorry CCP, its hax/bug/error/omission etc.)
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Lord Fitz
Project Amargosa
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 15:02:00 -
[1894]
Originally by: Triksterism
Originally by: Adam Slysphere
Originally by: Lag This change is complete crap.
Why should I pay for a months time that my character will not be able to do anything?
it is doing something. It's learning a new skill ...
Which is basically just a clock ticking while you take a break from the game. No bandwidth use and anyone is free to do it.
Actually it isn't even a clock ticking. It's a picture of the clock at the time you put that skill on. When you actually pay and login again, they take another picture, compare the two, and THEN work out if your skill is finished or not. The load of a training char is actually the same as one that isn't training, when inactive.
Of course if they make this change, then they need to keep looking at the clock all the time, and comparing it to your training clock and payment clock. Where as if they don't they don't need to look at either of these unless you login. There are some tricky ways around that sure to lead to some bugs, but basically they're not reducing the effort or load any, not unless they start completely erasing inactive chars and everything they own. Even then the difference would be immeasurable.
Quote: although it probably won't effect ccp to much, lets face it there will still be 30k+ players logged in tonight and tommorow and the day after that
22k now :o I remember when we were thinking it would break PCU 50k soon...
Jumped the shark..
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ISIAM
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 15:02:00 -
[1895]
I'm Sorry for all the devs, artist, programmers, management, and all other staff that may lose their jobs when C.C.P has to cut back on employees, because of this choice to change their own rules to stay afloat. I do realize That for C.C.P. to have come to this conclusion, It's very infrastructure must be under great stain. I will not speculate as to weather or not this may be the beginning of the end for C.C.P. , But I will say It's so for EVE. I hope That those at C.C.P. responsible for this decision realize Their mistake and move swiftly to right it. I for one would settle for Higher rates or some "else", but to change the very bones that call many to EVE is simply stupid. So in conclusion, I would like all that Find this decision a bad one, spread the word to your friends and corp mates to write, E-mail, and call C.C.P. and let them know, don't just do what we always do and just let it go by the way side. we as consumers do have voice and if they laugh at you then speak with your money. sadly yours, Joel "ISIAM" Carter
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Gonethes
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 15:02:00 -
[1896]
This must surely also mean that research with research agents must be halted while inactive!
I play on multiple accounts and with a limitied budget, I cant' afford to run them all at the same time. I suggest that you introduce a discount for multiple accounts to show the players that you are not, as you try to tell players, 'greedy money chewing monster'.
This feature has been used, but I can't say it can be abused, since you really can't play on an account that is inactive. The 'away-training' is a carrot for players to return to Eve, not an exploit og bugs so that players can train for free!
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CDLoon
Minmatar Red Sky Morning Arcane Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 15:02:00 -
[1897]
All these salty tears!
I have never, nor will ever ghost train. Im paying for it - im gonna play it. After 2 years playing an MMO where you had to login and play to level, just having the offline (subscribed) skill change is great.
Why should I get to train chars for free ?
And note : likely a lot of isk gets farmed by skilling up ghost chars and selling them.
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Sonao
Gallente Reikoku Band of Brothers
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 15:03:00 -
[1898]
Originally by: Avon Hey, your bug...
Skills continue training even if you are logged off or if your account is inactive
I found it in the player guide.
You guys better get in there and ninja-edit it.
It has been ninja-ed now!
Skills continue training even if you are logged off, but the skill will no longer continue to train on inactive accounts (an inactive account is when youÆre no longer paying the subscription, training will still continue when youÆve logged off on an subscribed account).
Thanks guys!
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Seth Ruin
Minmatar Ominous Corp Ethereal Dawn
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 15:03:00 -
[1899]
Originally by: Annaphera 1) I have played my character from day one, and received benefit in-game for it. If you honestly couldn't manage level one missions without 45 days of training, you've got a serious problem! I managed them my first day; by the end of the trial period, I was in a cruiser edging in to level 2's.
Irrelevant when you're talking to a 2003 or 2004 player... You folk start with far more skill points than we did back in the day.
Not complaining; I think that's a good thing that they periodically boost the amount of SP new players get. But just because you can do level 1s no problem now doesn't mean we didn't have to skill up (a lot) to be competent enough to complete a level 1 back in the day.
-- (CCP Inconsistency)
Why cover it up? We KNOW it's all just about money |
Triksterism
Gallente Frozen Corpse Inspection Services United Federation of Capsuleers
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 15:04:00 -
[1900]
Originally by: Ratio Legis
Originally by: Aenemah
Originally by: Triksterism
Not everyone ghost trains their level 5's. However, it is a popular thing to do when people want to take a break from eve. People should have the option. It is what CCP promoted and it is what has attracted many people to the game.
This.
In fact I know a lot of long time players who ghost-train much and only return from time to time to check on the new toys they trained while they were away. For most of them returning to Eve is motivated almost solely by the ability to play around with new things until they get bored again and take another break. For such people having to pay full time for an account they only sporadically use would not be a viable option. I will not go as far to suggest that forcing them out of the game will amount to a huge financial loss to CCP since I have no idea how many such players there are out there, though if I had to hazard a guess I'd put most people who have stuck around since game launch in this category. However it is a factor to be considered. Personally I know I'd hate to see them gone from the game, at least not as a result of an unambiguous profiteering act by CCP.
Very true. Got me thinking that ghost training for the kind of people who are just on-off-on-off seems rather fair. I mean, they barely play in the first place, so they train a skill, reactivate, play around for a few days, break again. $15 for a few days and a countdown clock for another month or so seems fair to me considering no bandwidth is wasted.
Again, I was refering to the niche of people Ratio mentioned, not everyone who ghost trains. -
Ghost Train & Snowflake |
|
TimGascoigne
The Graduates Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 15:04:00 -
[1901]
This is a perfectly reasonable change with a fatal floor.
The Dev blog came out Monday and the Change will occur on Wednesday. Unfortunately this change will affect inactive accounts often owned by people who are simply taking a break from the game and will lose a lot of skill training without realizing it.
Most people who are ghost training are not creating second characters on the cheap. They are ordinary players who have no idea what's about to happen.
CCP considering the nature of the topic, you desperately need to give more than 2 days warning.
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Adam Slysphere
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 15:05:00 -
[1902]
Originally by: Jorel
Originally by: Adam Reed
Originally by: Moon Kitten
Originally by: Adam Reed What utter nonsense, how can people be so blinkered as to think that there's any commercial benefit in CCP allowing people to train skills like this? They are a company trying to make a profit, and as much as I'm in favour of smashing capitalism if you're going to have it you have to accept that companies will do what they can to maximse profits.
Frankly I didn't know that this 'ghost training' existed and was surprised to hear that it did, and has lasted so long. To the people moaning about this change, shut up and pay like the rest of us, or sod off and play Guild Wars. Fair play to CCP I say.
Stop thinking about the quarterly financial report and start thinking more long term. Perhaps in terms of years.
What? They are a company, a profit-making company. Why should they provide a service to people who aren't paying them? Justify that in any other industry and I'll pay attention.
If your point is that allowing it will help them somewhere down the line, you've lost me, I don't see how it would. The board of CCP will have considered that when they made the decision and wouldn't have done it if it's likely to impact future profits.
Very easy, automotive industry. I paid $25,000 for my car, in cash. My car is insured etc. If I decide I'm going out of country for a couple of months I don't want to pay full insurance cost while my car is sitting in the garage and waiting for me, so I call the insurance company and only put fire and theft coverage, at the same time I take my car into the shop and get my mechanic to do some upgrades (I needed a bigger turbo, injectors, fuel rail etc) [this would be like buying skill books and training them]. So when I come back from vacation in 2 months, I've just saved some money by not paying full insurance and have invested that money into upgrades for my car.
Both the insurance company and my shop have still gotten my money (in this case CCP is both, as the isk spent on skills may have been acquired through GTC sales etc. and if they charged some minimum fee of no more than $5/month for skill training). This way everyone walks away a winner, but alas, they decided to stick it in our ****ers for using a feature that has been in the game for over 5 years.
It will most certainly impact active players in the future, I for one was training a character for my friend to use when he quits WoW. New players will be less likely to acquire a character with ISK (via GTC sales) since there won't be as many characters for sale etc.
I guess I'm not a happy camper, because CCP has just made a liar out of me to all those people whom I recommended the game to, based on this feature (sorry CCP, its hax/bug/error/omission etc.)
Difference being that your car is your property ... Let's say you're renting that car or still making payments on it like you're doing with your EVE character. If you went out of town and stopped making payments, do you think they're going to let you hang onto that car or repo it?
Everybody wants something for nothing, and that's what Ghost Trainers were doing.
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Siona Windweaver
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 15:06:00 -
[1903]
They need to give us a skill queue system asap in my opinion.
I understand why they may do such a thing, but its absolutely cheap to hide behind reasons such as "Balance" or "It was a Bug".
Anyways, skill queue. Now. Seriously.
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Jel Ting
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 15:07:00 -
[1904]
Originally by: Mriss
Originally by: Jel Ting
So once again play the game, dont power level without paying. If you want to train and do whatever fine, just now you have to pay like the rest of us.
Never ever heard of anybody who could "train and do whatever" without actually paying.
Are you actually missing the whole point here.
I don't think so... Train and play, train and don't play that is the whatever, go jack-off to Marcia Brady whatever floats your canoe. I don't think getting something that other people pay for at a discount is fair. Hell I'll go on the record again and say I think this whole alt thing is out of hand, some day it will be 2 guys playing Eve and 30K toons logged in. I say they should get rid of alts and have 3 pricing packages, One for one trainable character per account, another price with 2 trainable characters per account and a 3rd option with all 3 characters able to train concurrently. However you can only have one logged in at a time. And skill queueing of course. I'm sick of guys with 10 alts frankly, I want to play with other people and depend on them for scouting etc. Not some guy with lots of cash and and 10 alts mining in 0.0 with scouts in adjacent systems. At this rate Eve will be 1 guy with 30k alts in 5 years :p
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Marius Duvall
Amarr Merch Industrial GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 15:07:00 -
[1905]
Originally by: Wygg
Originally by: Triksterism You're missing the point. Not everyone ghost trains their level 5's. However, it is a popular thing to do when people want to take a break from eve. People should have the option. It is what CCP promoted and it is what has attracted many people to the game.
The converse is Why should you get Carrier V without paying for it?
Because it's been touted as a feature in the players guide for the past 5 years. ---
Originally by: "Reticenti" Oh, one note to Scius, you have made Goons and BoB agree on something. Good job.
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Chris Stormrider
Gallente IDEON ANDRON
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 15:07:00 -
[1906]
I convinced my gf to create an account and after playing for a month or two, RL took over. She has since been training skills on her account only. She hasn't missed a day in paying for that account. Does that mean she is ghost training or not? I fail to see how she has gained an unfair advantage over other player, but apparently she has, since she has been advancing her character because she only logs-in every month or so (and putting the servers under much pressure with her intense skill training, also causing lag in jita and in big fleet battles, giving small kids AIDS and exhaling CO2 thus: global warming)
/me shruggs
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Karma Kahn
Amarr Viziam
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 15:09:00 -
[1907]
Hmm the my account section of the site is under maintenance...lol My views are my own they do not reflect those of my corp or alliance
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Jorel
Developmental Neogenics Amalgamated
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 15:09:00 -
[1908]
Originally by: Adam Slysphere
Originally by: Jorel
Originally by: Adam Reed
Originally by: Moon Kitten
Originally by: Adam Reed What utter nonsense, how can people be so blinkered as to think that there's any commercial benefit in CCP allowing people to train skills like this? They are a company trying to make a profit, and as much as I'm in favour of smashing capitalism if you're going to have it you have to accept that companies will do what they can to maximse profits.
Frankly I didn't know that this 'ghost training' existed and was surprised to hear that it did, and has lasted so long. To the people moaning about this change, shut up and pay like the rest of us, or sod off and play Guild Wars. Fair play to CCP I say.
Stop thinking about the quarterly financial report and start thinking more long term. Perhaps in terms of years.
What? They are a company, a profit-making company. Why should they provide a service to people who aren't paying them? Justify that in any other industry and I'll pay attention.
If your point is that allowing it will help them somewhere down the line, you've lost me, I don't see how it would. The board of CCP will have considered that when they made the decision and wouldn't have done it if it's likely to impact future profits.
Very easy, automotive industry. I paid $25,000 for my car, in cash. My car is insured etc. If I decide I'm going out of country for a couple of months I don't want to pay full insurance cost while my car is sitting in the garage and waiting for me, so I call the insurance company and only put fire and theft coverage, at the same time I take my car into the shop and get my mechanic to do some upgrades (I needed a bigger turbo, injectors, fuel rail etc) [this would be like buying skill books and training them]. So when I come back from vacation in 2 months, I've just saved some money by not paying full insurance and have invested that money into upgrades for my car.
Both the insurance company and my shop have still gotten my money (in this case CCP is both, as the isk spent on skills may have been acquired through GTC sales etc. and if they charged some minimum fee of no more than $5/month for skill training). This way everyone walks away a winner, but alas, they decided to stick it in our ****ers for using a feature that has been in the game for over 5 years.
It will most certainly impact active players in the future, I for one was training a character for my friend to use when he quits WoW. New players will be less likely to acquire a character with ISK (via GTC sales) since there won't be as many characters for sale etc.
I guess I'm not a happy camper, because CCP has just made a liar out of me to all those people whom I recommended the game to, based on this feature (sorry CCP, its hax/bug/error/omission etc.)
Difference being that your car is your property ... Let's say you're renting that car or still making payments on it like you're doing with your EVE character. If you went out of town and stopped making payments, do you think they're going to let you hang onto that car or repo it?
Everybody wants something for nothing, and that's what Ghost Trainers were doing.
I realize the EULA reasons that all virtual items are property of CCP etc. That being said, if I didn't 'feel' that I owned my character, they would never have gotten any money out of me. If I was renting a car I would pay for the time I used it and it would remain the same car the next time I rented it, but there would be maintenance done on it in the interim, I would have fresh oil, washer fluid etc.
You point is void.
|
Triksterism
Gallente Frozen Corpse Inspection Services United Federation of Capsuleers
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 15:09:00 -
[1909]
Originally by: Jel Ting
Originally by: Mriss
Originally by: Jel Ting
So once again play the game, dont power level without paying. If you want to train and do whatever fine, just now you have to pay like the rest of us.
Never ever heard of anybody who could "train and do whatever" without actually paying.
Are you actually missing the whole point here.
I don't think so... Train and play, train and don't play that is the whatever, go jack-off to Marcia Brady whatever floats your canoe. I don't think getting something that other people pay for at a discount is fair. Hell I'll go on the record again and say I think this whole alt thing is out of hand, some day it will be 2 guys playing Eve and 30K toons logged in. I say they should get rid of alts and have 3 pricing packages, One for one trainable character per account, another price with 2 trainable characters per account and a 3rd option with all 3 characters able to train concurrently. However you can only have one logged in at a time. And skill queueing of course. I'm sick of guys with 10 alts frankly, I want to play with other people and depend on them for scouting etc. Not some guy with lots of cash and and 10 alts mining in 0.0 with scouts in adjacent systems. At this rate Eve will be 1 guy with 30k alts in 5 years :p
Well, I can agree with you on the alt thing, people with too many accounts just doesn't sit well with me for some reason. -
Ghost Train & Snowflake |
ISIAM
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 15:09:00 -
[1910]
I'm Sorry for all the devs, artist, programmers, management, and all other staff that may lose their jobs when C.C.P has to cut back on employees, because of this choice to change their own rules to stay afloat. I do realize That for C.C.P. to have come to this conclusion, It's very infrastructure must be under great stain. I will not speculate as to weather or not this may be the beginning of the end for C.C.P. , But I will say It's so for EVE. I hope That those at C.C.P. responsible for this decision realize Their mistake and move swiftly to right it. I for one would settle for Higher rates or some "else", but to change the very bones that call many to EVE is simply stupid. So in conclusion, I would like all that Find this decision a bad one, spread the word to your friends and corp mates to write, E-mail, and call C.C.P. and let them know, don't just do what we always do and just let it go by the way side. we as consumers do have voice and if they laugh at you then speak with your money. sadly yours, Joel "ISIAM" Carter
|
|
Adam Slysphere
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 15:09:00 -
[1911]
Originally by: Chris Stormrider I convinced my gf to create an account and after playing for a month or two, RL took over. She has since been training skills on her account only. She hasn't missed a day in paying for that account. Does that mean she is ghost training or not? I fail to see how she has gained an unfair advantage over other player, but apparently she has, since she has been advancing her character because she only logs-in every month or so (and putting the servers under much pressure with her intense skill training, also causing lag in jita and in big fleet battles, giving small kids AIDS and exhaling CO2 thus: global warming)
/me shruggs
If she's paying, then she's not ghost training and that's not the issue.
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IR Scoutar
Caldari State War Academy
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 15:10:00 -
[1912]
Originally by: Seth Ruin
Originally by: chotaire
Originally by: IR Scoutar
Originally by: Koyama Ise CCP before you go bankrupt and lose your servers... release the source code...
why the hell would you want the source code what you want is the IP or a free license to the eve universe
Most useless and nonsense post of this thread, congratulations ;)
Far from it.
IP in this context refers to "Intellectual Property," and "license" in this context refers to the legal right to use said intellectual property...
Source code will only tell you how the servers work. Without a license, you're not legally allowed to do anything with the source. Hell, even open-source software has a license (GPL and such).
Or, y'know, you can just sit there and look at hundreds of thousands (if not over a million) lines of code...
Ty Seth for keeping me from explaining that in a less kindly fassion than you did
as for
Originally by: ATARI BABY
source code mean private servers. private servers mean free play.
only if it is released under such a license that allows free use
but thats still ignoring the problem of needing a rather wealthy entity to begin again sotospeak not everybody can go and rent a 100 servers out of the blue and give them to the comunity out of the kindness of their hearts
thats why release IP -> company picks up -> new release 2009/2010 EvE : The Third Genesis
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Jel Ting
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 15:10:00 -
[1913]
Originally by: Arestan -2 accounts.
Take care, CCP.
See yah, don't forget to shut off your lasers before you leave.
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Signaldog
Gallente Cloak and Daggers
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Posted - 2008.10.14 15:10:00 -
[1914]
ISIAM,
STOP SPAMMING THE BLOG PLEASE, THAT'S JUST A WASTE OF TIME.
READ MY SALVAGER THREAD HERE!!!!
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Domania
Crete Carrier Corp.
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Posted - 2008.10.14 15:11:00 -
[1915]
Edited by: Domania on 14/10/2008 15:12:46
Originally by: Triksterism
I don't know about you, but if I were to train carrier to 5, the length of the skill would be nagging at the back of my head a lot. Everytime I log in "Dammit! 64 days, grrr!"
It's a good thing I got to train this skill using that featu........."bug" CCP had in the game for 5 years.
EDIT: Uh ho looks like PR didn't want to look like a ass and ninja edited it just in time!Hopefully someone got a picture of it for the records.
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Karma Kahn
Amarr Viziam
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Posted - 2008.10.14 15:11:00 -
[1916]
Originally by: ISIAM I'm Sorry for all the devs, artist, programmers, management, and all other staff that may lose their jobs when C.C.P has to cut back on employees, because of this choice to change their own rules to stay afloat. I do realize That for C.C.P. to have come to this conclusion, It's very infrastructure must be under great stain. I will not speculate as to weather or not this may be the beginning of the end for C.C.P. , But I will say It's so for EVE. I hope That those at C.C.P. responsible for this decision realize Their mistake and move swiftly to right it. I for one would settle for Higher rates or some "else", but to change the very bones that call many to EVE is simply stupid. So in conclusion, I would like all that Find this decision a bad one, spread the word to your friends and corp mates to write, E-mail, and call C.C.P. and let them know, don't just do what we always do and just let it go by the way side. we as consumers do have voice and if they laugh at you then speak with your money. sadly yours, Joel "ISIAM" Carter
nah letem burn in hell for the pathetic decline in the game from rmr till today.. ccp might even try to pip sony for the mmo pariah crown...(A pipe dream but one can wish)..lol My views are my own they do not reflect those of my corp or alliance
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Venus Einstein
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Posted - 2008.10.14 15:11:00 -
[1917]
Originally by: Sonao
Originally by: Avon Hey, your bug...
Skills continue training even if you are logged off or if your account is inactive
I found it in the player guide.
You guys better get in there and ninja-edit it.
It has been ninja-ed now!
Skills continue training even if you are logged off, but the skill will no longer continue to train on inactive accounts (an inactive account is when youÆre no longer paying the subscription, training will still continue when youÆve logged off on an subscribed account).
Thanks guys!
So here we are ccp SHITS at us, not even waiting until this tread explodes or the patch is done First time the light comes, before the fire burns
MUHAHAAAAAAA (any Lehman Bros banker hired at CCP the last weeks????)
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BIind
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Posted - 2008.10.14 15:12:00 -
[1918]
Originally by: CDLoon And note : likely a lot of isk gets farmed by skilling up ghost chars and selling them.
There will be a lot more ISK farmed with other methods now to pay for all the ghost chars.
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Lord Fitz
Project Amargosa
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Posted - 2008.10.14 15:13:00 -
[1919]
I don't see what the EULA has to do with this. There's no disputing CCP's 'right' to do this. They can do anything, delete everyone's stuff, anything. This is merely a question of the impact is has on the people that pay money to continue to play the game, or to play the game again, etc. If CCP do something that negatively affects their relationship with their players and their bottom line as well, it wouldn't be fair to them to just quietly stop playing now would it?
Regardless of what you think about the change, being intentionally or unintentionally (not sure which is worse) LIED TO by CCP about their reasons for a change, simply does not sit well.
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Annaphera
Minmatar Super Green Industries
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Posted - 2008.10.14 15:13:00 -
[1920]
Originally by: Triksterism
You're missing the point. Not everyone ghost trains their level 5's. However, it is a popular thing to do when people want to take a break from eve. People should have the option. It is what CCP promoted and it is what has attracted many people to the game.
Great. Let them take a break from Eve. And like any other service, they get NONE of the benefits the paying customers do while they are gone! Everyone acts like this was an entitlement...that you should be entitled to some perk without paying. Bullcookies.
Oh, and yet again...the flippin' game manual is NOT a promotion! I'd also like to see a survey that asks people's primary reason for starting to play Eve - while I'd bet that offline skill gain would make the top three, I'd lay money that inactive skill gain wouldn't. Or maybe people are bigger parasites than I want to believe...
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CIA1
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Posted - 2008.10.14 15:13:00 -
[1921]
Ok , sorry just wanted to be heard.
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EightNie
Havoc Inc
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Posted - 2008.10.14 15:14:00 -
[1922]
Edited by: EightNie on 14/10/2008 15:14:53 Old news.
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Karina Mei
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.10.14 15:14:00 -
[1923]
Originally by: Annaphera
In fact, if you are not doing those things, how are you going to be able (without resorting to a EULA violation) to use that shiny new toy your long skill enables?
Just buy ISK with GTC's like so many people seem to do. No need to breach the EULA at all.
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Terianna Eri
Amarr Scrutari
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Posted - 2008.10.14 15:15:00 -
[1924]
Originally by: chotaire Fictionary Dev Blog Post from ccp whoever:
Dear players, due to recent financing issues related to national problems we had to decide to disable ghost training for a limited amount of time. Due to our local banks unable to give us the necessary loans to expand our network and hire more programmers to implement the features you people desire, we saw no other chance doing so.
But please be asured this is only a temporary change, as we will rethink our priority list and reward everyone of you with a great new feature in return to be implemented before christmas:
Skill queueing goes in effect with the next major patch in the second week of December, at the same time ghost training will be back available to everyone. However skill queueing will only work if you have an active subscription.
We sincelery hope you understand this decision as we are forced to refinance immediate investments necessary to implement new features that CSM has requested to see available soon, as much as improving our network, hardware and database concept to cope with lag on fleet battles.
Furthermore, we will bring back 30 day time codes sometime next year. We hope this is a good compromise for all of us and we are looking forward to your feedback to discuss this matter before it goes into effect sometime soon.
Best Regards CCP whoever
t h i s
do it. __________________________________
Originally by: Arthur Frayn How much to ruin all your holes, luv?
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Gorek Loc
Etherware Heavy Engineering
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Posted - 2008.10.14 15:15:00 -
[1925]
I am sorry to hear that you cancel a good feature in the game.
It was intended, as someone states from your own player guide.
If it weren't for that you disabled your secure-network, I would have already cancelled 3 accounts. Too bad I can't cancel my FanFest trip too. But I am sure there are a lot of good shops in Reykjavik to spend the time in on a weekend.
If you disable one feature while accounts are inactive, I suggest you disable ALL features, like market orders, reserach agents, contracts, pos fuel-consumption, etc. Not just a 5 year old feature 'that was unintended from the start', but still managed to get written into the player guide!
To the players: Have fun playing 23/7, this may be an excuse for me to get rid of this addiction
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ISIAM
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Posted - 2008.10.14 15:15:00 -
[1926]
Ok, sorry just wanted to be heard.
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Silvia t'Nias
Paramilitary Skanks
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Posted - 2008.10.14 15:15:00 -
[1927]
I like the way CCP has taken some of the half a dozen most commonly repeated complaints in this (and the previous) thread and given clear, in-depth answers to them. Answers they had time to prepare beforehand, knowing which complaints to expect over this move.
Meanwhile, at the other end of Lala-Land, free princesses and Unicorns for everyone!
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Joao Duarte
M. Corp
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Posted - 2008.10.14 15:16:00 -
[1928]
My word on this: I'm against it. Probably CCP will lose money in the long term, as these alt accounts will be cancelled, resulting in a (big) reduction in subscriptions in the long term.
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Marius Duvall
Amarr Merch Industrial GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.10.14 15:16:00 -
[1929]
Originally by: Annaphera
Originally by: Triksterism
You're missing the point. Not everyone ghost trains their level 5's. However, it is a popular thing to do when people want to take a break from eve. People should have the option. It is what CCP promoted and it is what has attracted many people to the game.
Great. Let them take a break from Eve. And like any other service, they get NONE of the benefits the paying customers do while they are gone! Everyone acts like this was an entitlement...that you should be entitled to some perk without paying. Bullcookies.
Oh, and yet again...the flippin' game manual is NOT a promotion! I'd also like to see a survey that asks people's primary reason for starting to play Eve - while I'd bet that offline skill gain would make the top three, I'd lay money that inactive skill gain wouldn't. Or maybe people are bigger parasites than I want to believe...
The issue isn't that the players guide isn't a promotion (which is arguable, really) but that a supposed "bug" was listed as an intended effect therein. ---
Originally by: "Reticenti" Oh, one note to Scius, you have made Goons and BoB agree on something. Good job.
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Triksterism
Gallente Frozen Corpse Inspection Services United Federation of Capsuleers
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Posted - 2008.10.14 15:16:00 -
[1930]
Originally by: Annaphera
Originally by: Triksterism
You're missing the point. Not everyone ghost trains their level 5's. However, it is a popular thing to do when people want to take a break from eve. People should have the option. It is what CCP promoted and it is what has attracted many people to the game.
Great. Let them take a break from Eve. And like any other service, they get NONE of the benefits the paying customers do while they are gone! Everyone acts like this was an entitlement...that you should be entitled to some perk without paying. Bullcookies.
Oh, and yet again...the flippin' game manual is NOT a promotion! I'd also like to see a survey that asks people's primary reason for starting to play Eve - while I'd bet that offline skill gain would make the top three, I'd lay money that inactive skill gain wouldn't. Or maybe people are bigger parasites than I want to believe...
Do people on WoW continue to get "sleep xp" when their accounts are inactive? Just wondering.
The thing here though, Annaphera, is that people can still train a skill but the trade off is they can't play without paying. Unfortunatly there are those who abuse it to farm isk. -
Ghost Train & Snowflake |
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Adam Slysphere
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Posted - 2008.10.14 15:16:00 -
[1931]
Originally by: Jorel
I realize the EULA reasons that all virtual items are property of CCP etc. That being said, if I didn't 'feel' that I owned my character, they would never have gotten any money out of me. If I was renting a car I would pay for the time I used it and it would remain the same car the next time I rented it, but there would be maintenance done on it in the interim, I would have fresh oil, washer fluid etc.
You point is void.
Just because you feel like you own your character doesn't make it so ... You're still basically playing with CCP's property and if you want to do that, then you need to pay for it.
You are having maintenance done. The servers are being taken care of, content is being added, bug fixes are being put in. What you're wanting is your character to progress while you're not having to spend any time or money on that character. How does that make any sense?
If you want to ghost train, then you should have to spent some money ... Just like if you still want insurance on your car you have to pay for it.
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Ratamatahata
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Posted - 2008.10.14 15:16:00 -
[1932]
Now additionally I cant cancel my subscription because subscription page is under maintenance.
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Ratio Legis
Slacker Industries
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Posted - 2008.10.14 15:17:00 -
[1933]
Originally by: Adam Slysphere
They're not upping the subscription fee, they're just closing a loop hole that players have been using to improve their characters without paying for the game. Which probably has gotten to be more of a problem since they started allowing characters to be bought and sold.
Hey you're right, I shouldn't be telling the guy what to do with his money. It's best not to try and help people by making a suggestion and let them be idiots and hurt themselves. I say remove the safety warning from all products and let Darwinism take over.
No matter if you call it a bug or a loophole, it used to be a fact in the game for 5 years and people were counting on it. With the "loophole" closed, you can do the exact same thing but you need to pay for it. If needing to pay more in order to get the same service is not upping the price, I don't know what is. If being able to skill up without paying til your current skill fills up is a loophole, how would you call forcing players to pay the full price of playing AND skilling up if they only need to do the passive skilling part? If they want to make players pay, then instituting a separate tariff for just skilling is a much more sensible solution.
And you are not putting a safety label here in this topic, you are basically telling people that if they are poor, they can go shove it since they have no place in Eve with its updated prices - which they have already figured for themselves with all the "zomg i quit" posts here.
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Midas Man
Caldari Dzark Asylum
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Posted - 2008.10.14 15:18:00 -
[1934]
Originally by: Adam Slysphere
Originally by: Triksterism
Originally by: Adam Slysphere
Originally by: Lag This change is complete crap.
Why should I pay for a months time that my character will not be able to do anything?
it is doing something. It's learning a new skill ...
Which is basically just a clock ticking while you take a break from the game. No bandwidth use and anyone is free to do it.
As someone stated earlier: Why should a character gain in value when there's no money being spent on said character?
What other service in the world allows you to use it without being paid for in a consistent manor? Does the phone company not bill you on the days you don't make any phone calls? Does your ISP not charge your for the days you don't serf the web? You're receiving a service and your character is progressing. You should have to pay for said service.
Fair enough but if you had a deal that when you signed were told You only pay line rental when you make a call.
Then 3 months later you get a memo say the we will now charge line rental for everyday even if you dont make a call the offer we give you was a typo. im sure youd be a bit ****ed off. now if the contract you signed says we have the right do as we please when we please. you have no case to argue.
Is this fair business practise no. And nor is what CCP are doing
An the 2000+ post is just proving to them how much they are hurting the player base who will reduce account or emoquit.
So all in all its a Lose/Lose for CCP
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Ar'tee
DarkStar 1 GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.10.14 15:19:00 -
[1935]
Originally by: CCP Fallout
A long overdue and much needed change will be put in place with the Wednesday, 15 October 2008 patch. Ghost Training, the continuous skill gain on accounts in an inactive or expired state - will no longer function after Wednesday, 15 October 2008. This practice upsets the balance of our bank accounts, which frankly we can do without given the financial situation our country is currently in, and capsuleers who actively put their money into not logging into our game because training works just as well when you're logged off will no longer be unfairly affected by those few who cost us precious dollars by doing basically the exact same thing except without paying us money for it.
Fixed that statement for you.
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Wygg
Minmatar Hadean Drive Yards Archaean Cooperative
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Posted - 2008.10.14 15:19:00 -
[1936]
The easy solution to this whole problem is really quite simple.
Prohibit the sale of any character that's been inactive for a set percentage of their lifespan.
25%? 50%? 75%? Something could be worked out. It would stop the farming of characters simply for ISK generation and allow people with RL issues the ability to still reap a reward. Spend X% of the time with the account/characters inactive and you can't sell them. Sounds like a compromise.
Sure it would be nice to be able to train three characters simultaneously. Multi-skill training would be nifty and a training queue would be a boon. That having been said, the other side of the argument begs why you shouldn't have to play a character who's training a long skill?
This coming from a guy who's got quite a few skills at V and who hasn't gone inactive for them.
(And to all the peeps bemoaning what a "weak" or "mediocre" game Eve is ... why don't you just quit, then? Really. Just go.)
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Alleneara
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Posted - 2008.10.14 15:20:00 -
[1937]
Originally by: Triksterism Do people on WoW continue to get "sleep xp" when their accounts are inactive? Just wondering.
Yup, in WoW the rested XP (allowing XP gain from mobs at twice the usual amount for a maximum of up to 1,5 levels, which takes 10 days of being in an inn or city to reach) accumulates when game time has run out.
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Kalintos Tyl
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.10.14 15:20:00 -
[1938]
http://dl.eve-files.com/media/0810/lie.jpg
sure
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Tobias Lee
UK Corp Mostly Harmless
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Posted - 2008.10.14 15:20:00 -
[1939]
Does the phone company not bill you on the days you don't make any phone calls?
Dunno who posted this but i do know i only pay for the phone calls i make :) i dont Pay for a phone call that was not made :P
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Adam Slysphere
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Posted - 2008.10.14 15:20:00 -
[1940]
Originally by: Triksterism
Originally by: Annaphera
Originally by: Triksterism
You're missing the point. Not everyone ghost trains their level 5's. However, it is a popular thing to do when people want to take a break from eve. People should have the option. It is what CCP promoted and it is what has attracted many people to the game.
Great. Let them take a break from Eve. And like any other service, they get NONE of the benefits the paying customers do while they are gone! Everyone acts like this was an entitlement...that you should be entitled to some perk without paying. Bullcookies.
Oh, and yet again...the flippin' game manual is NOT a promotion! I'd also like to see a survey that asks people's primary reason for starting to play Eve - while I'd bet that offline skill gain would make the top three, I'd lay money that inactive skill gain wouldn't. Or maybe people are bigger parasites than I want to believe...
Do people on WoW continue to get "sleep xp" when their accounts are inactive? Just wondering.
The thing here though, Annaphera, is that people can still train a skill but the trade off is they can't play without paying. Unfortunatly there are those who abuse it to farm isk.
You can only get a set amount of sleep xp, which maxes out after a few days so that's not really a big deal. It would be better to say that WoW character go do Kara raids on their own after people cancel their accounts, so when the players return they have lots of new stuff to play with.
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Triksterism
Gallente Frozen Corpse Inspection Services United Federation of Capsuleers
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Posted - 2008.10.14 15:22:00 -
[1941]
Edited by: Triksterism on 14/10/2008 15:22:02
Originally by: Alleneara
Originally by: Triksterism Do people on WoW continue to get "sleep xp" when their accounts are inactive? Just wondering.
Yup, in WoW the rested XP (allowing XP gain from mobs at twice the usual amount for a maximum of up to 1,5 levels, which takes 10 days of being in an inn or city to reach) accumulates when game time has run out.
Well there ya go. Thank you. -
Ghost Train & Snowflake |
LadyMaverick
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Posted - 2008.10.14 15:22:00 -
[1942]
So basically, now I have to PAY AND WAIT till I get to..say.. carrier... So what if I find out that after having to pay and wait a few months I don't like flying carriers?! Can I have my money back?
If I can ghosttrain, I cut my costs. I pay little for unwanted waiting. Waiting that brings me no joy whatsoever itself!
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Sean Drake
Caldari Dirty Deeds Corp. Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2008.10.14 15:22:00 -
[1943]
Edited by: Sean Drake on 14/10/2008 15:24:14 lol I see CCCP are ninja editing there own website remeber kids if we delete it it never existed
and yay I canceled before they had tech problems
If Goons AND BoB are agreeing with each other that your idea is stupid, it's probably stupid.
CCP has bee |
Borg Zorg
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Posted - 2008.10.14 15:22:00 -
[1944]
Originally by: thelung187 Edited by: thelung187 on 14/10/2008 15:02:15
Originally by: Avon Hey, your bug...
Skills continue training even if you are logged off or if your account is inactive
I found it in the player guide.
You guys better get in there and ninja-edit it.
Quoting this due to the lol/"working-as-intended-wait-we-get-more-money-maybe-the-other-way" factor.
edit: glad to see you were able to edit that so quickly, way to be on top of it CCP!
Fu... bastards. Shame on you,this game is going down just for this way of treting coustomers. Thay did actualy change that line in player guide. What a bounch of incompetent s.......rs
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D4RT N3RDiUS
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Posted - 2008.10.14 15:23:00 -
[1945]
Quote: Now additionally I cant cancel my subscription because subscription page is under maintenance
go to your credit card and cancel the last payment XD see wth happen you play free 1 mont.. again ccp are you making things worst cant cancel the suscriction... mmm to many players cancel theyrs? lol.. are you afreid of the angry players wh are leaving with hey money to anther place? ... is your fault ccp dont blame the players..
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WeightedCompanionCube
Aperture Science Enrichment Center
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Posted - 2008.10.14 15:23:00 -
[1946]
How many people here are actually going to terminate their character in protest rather then just cancel, an action that is easily reversible ? |
Seth Ruin
Minmatar Ominous Corp Ethereal Dawn
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Posted - 2008.10.14 15:25:00 -
[1947]
Arg, the number of "If you didn't pay for xxx service in real life you wouldn't get anything from it either" posts...
Listen, this ghost skill training issue is something akin to this:
You sign up for a cell phone contract. You get one of their "free" cell phones for a sign-up bonus. When the contract's up, you don't renew because you can't afford it.
Ghost training can be thought of as still being able to keep your handset. You can still change your wallpapers, listen to MP3s on it, use it as a phone... you just can't make calls or do anything that depends on having a network. I don't know of any cell phone company that repossesses the cell phone after a contract is expired.
However, this isn't the main issue here
The majority of us are complaining about being lied to, like children, idiots, sheep, or what-have-you. Had CCP announced, say a month before they planned to implement it, that they were disabling this feature because it was being abused, fine. But instead they claim it's a balance issue and then a bug.
I am frustrated. Over the past few years, CCP's PR has not improved. Their communication still sucks, and they still have this habit of lying to their customers.
We just want to be treated with respect
-- (CCP Inconsistency)
Why cover it up? We KNOW it's all just about money |
Wussie
Delusions 0f Grandeur G00DFELLAS
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Posted - 2008.10.14 15:25:00 -
[1948]
I for one would like to see a skill queue to soothe the drama tears of this change. With training stopping when the account goes inactive there's basically no drawback left for CCP withholding them from introducing the training queue. lovesauce |
Gorek Loc
Etherware Heavy Engineering
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Posted - 2008.10.14 15:25:00 -
[1949]
Originally by: WeightedCompanionCube How many people here are actually going to terminate their character in protest rather then just cancel, an action that is easily reversible ?
If I cancel one of my 3 accounts for 3 months, it will cost CCP more than if I ghost-train for a whole year.
the point is, if you ghost-train, you will be getting back to the game with a better character, and possibly being able to do what you wanted to do from the beginning.
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CowsCANBark
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Posted - 2008.10.14 15:26:00 -
[1950]
Originally by: WeightedCompanionCube How many people here are actually going to terminate their character in protest rather then just cancel, an action that is easily reversible ?
Seeing as how they took down account management, zero.
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Maria Dalin
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Posted - 2008.10.14 15:26:00 -
[1951]
Originally by: WeightedCompanionCube How many people here are actually going to terminate their character in protest rather then just cancel, an action that is easily reversible ?
I think we will rather see more "juicy" characters on illegal $ 4 char portals
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Adam Slysphere
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Posted - 2008.10.14 15:27:00 -
[1952]
Originally by: Midas Man
Fair enough but if you had a deal that when you signed were told You only pay line rental when you make a call.
Then 3 months later you get a memo say the we will now charge line rental for everyday even if you dont make a call the offer we give you was a typo. im sure youd be a bit ****ed off. now if the contract you signed says we have the right do as we please when we please. you have no case to argue.
Is this fair business practise no. And nor is what CCP are doing
An the 2000+ post is just proving to them how much they are hurting the player base who will reduce account or emoquit.
So all in all its a Lose/Lose for CCP
The difference being, you didn't sign a contract with CCP stating that you can ghost train characters for the life of the game. You sign a contact saying they're God and they can do anything they want with EVE at any time every time you log into EVE. Like the phone company, if they changed their service plan I would either continue paying or I would find a different service provider. Which is what some people are doing and I can't begrudge them for that. I respect their opinions and hope to see them back someday.
Again, I go back to the statement that you're character is progressing without any money or work from you at all. In most games that's considered an exploit... I can't really blame CCP for wanting to change the way the game works to limit this. After all, it says on the box that game play experience may change.
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Triksterism
Gallente Frozen Corpse Inspection Services United Federation of Capsuleers
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Posted - 2008.10.14 15:27:00 -
[1953]
Originally by: CowsCANBark
Originally by: WeightedCompanionCube How many people here are actually going to terminate their character in protest rather then just cancel, an action that is easily reversible ?
Seeing as how they took down account management, zero.
He means deleting your character as opposed to canceling your account.
You are able to delete your character after logging into the game itself. -
Ghost Train & Snowflake |
IR Scoutar
Caldari State War Academy
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Posted - 2008.10.14 15:27:00 -
[1954]
Edited by: IR Scoutar on 14/10/2008 15:28:21
Originally by: Annaphera
Oh, and yet again...the flippin' game manual is NOT a promotion!
however that manual shouldnt lie to you it should clearly state the use of its product or wouldnt you complain if your toaster manual told you that it is safe to submerge it in water and is capable of microwaving a roast in under 30 seconds ?
of course in this case its more of the toaster was indeed capable of working under water but that now has decleard a bug after this has become comon practise for more than 5 years
in this event it may be regarded as a fundamental game mechanics change (skill gain is a game mechanic in any game and eve's skilltaining is unique!) and being blatantly lied to that this thing that was once a feature is now a bug if not exploit doesnt sit well with allot of people
i think THAT more than anything is what gets people angry (its my reason anyways)
edit : curse my crappy keyboard if you find missing letters ... keep them
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Catherine Frasier
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Posted - 2008.10.14 15:27:00 -
[1955]
Originally by: Marius Duvall The issue isn't that the players guide isn't a promotion (which is arguable, really) but that a supposed "bug" was listed as an intended effect therein.
No, it never was listed as an intended effect, ever, anywhere. The guide merely described the way things were. All the emorage in the world can't change documentation into proof of intent.
Of course, since this has been pointed out about seven thousand times and ignored about seven thousand times, I don't expect pointing it out again will have any effect on you "But it was in the guide!!!!11one!!" folks.
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Raquel Trotter
Trotters Independent Trading
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Posted - 2008.10.14 15:28:00 -
[1956]
Originally by: WeightedCompanionCube How many people here are actually going to terminate their character in protest rather then just cancel, an action that is easily reversible ?
Not many, but I for one am going to stop my alts subscriptions, transfer them to my main or just sell them and only pay for 1 account from now on. I would assume that many, many others will do the same.
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CowsCANBark
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Posted - 2008.10.14 15:28:00 -
[1957]
Please do not post other peoples personal information. Navigator
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Reptzo
Channel 4 News Team
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Posted - 2008.10.14 15:29:00 -
[1958]
Originally by: WeightedCompanionCube How many people here are actually going to terminate their character in protest rather then just cancel, an action that is easily reversible ?
None, and in all reality, if every post here represents the amount of quitting people, (multiple posts representing alts), than only 1200-1300 people will actually be quitting. Now factoring in all the people that will not resub and such that don't post, means maybe 5-10 k people, tops. So, that is 2-3 % of the total current sub numbers? I don't think it will matter much in the grand scheme.
CCP has made their decision and is obviously going to stick with it.
And on a side note, I trained carrier 5 while playing the game, along with jump cal 5, and many other 1-2 month skills. Don't see what the problem is in making you play the game, or at least pay.
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Borg Zorg
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Posted - 2008.10.14 15:29:00 -
[1959]
My main is definitly out of this game. Im not paying for it any more.Subscription canceld. And this char was a power of too project just got it 4 days ago.And i feel been cheatead. Will cansell this subscription whan thay bring back my acount servicis. What a bunch of mo..ns. OMFG
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Chris Stormrider
Gallente IDEON ANDRON
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Posted - 2008.10.14 15:30:00 -
[1960]
Originally by: Ar'tee
Originally by: CCP Fallout
A long overdue and much needed change will be put in place with the Wednesday, 15 October 2008 patch. Ghost Training, the continuous skill gain on accounts in an inactive or expired state - will no longer function after Wednesday, 15 October 2008. This practice upsets the balance of our bank accounts, which frankly we can do without given the financial situation our country is currently in, and capsuleers who actively put their money into not logging into our game because training works just as well when you're logged off will no longer be unfairly affected by those few who cost us precious dollars by doing basically the exact same thing except without paying us money for it.
Fixed that statement for you.
exactly my point. if training a skill without playing is an unfair advantage we might as well get xp for doing genocide on goblins or bearded keltirs. if training a skill without paying is the problem it doesn't make much sense to me. If CCP decides to give eve for free to some people or to everyone will I protest because it's not financially sound?
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BIind
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Posted - 2008.10.14 15:30:00 -
[1961]
Edited by: BIind on 14/10/2008 15:32:11
Originally by: Wussie With training stopping when the account goes inactive there's basically no drawback left for CCP withholding them from introducing the training queue.
You losing 2 weeks worth of SP a year by getting stuck in traffic/sleeping/having a life = ~5% less database lag apparently.
People have been asking for a skill queue since day 1, just forget about it already.
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Seth Ruin
Minmatar Ominous Corp Ethereal Dawn
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Posted - 2008.10.14 15:30:00 -
[1962]
Originally by: Catherine Frasier
Originally by: Marius Duvall The issue isn't that the players guide isn't a promotion (which is arguable, really) but that a supposed "bug" was listed as an intended effect therein.
No, it never was listed as an intended effect, ever, anywhere. The guide merely described the way things were. All the emorage in the world can't change documentation into proof of intent.
Of course, since this has been pointed out about seven thousand times and ignored about seven thousand times, I don't expect pointing it out again will have any effect on you "But it was in the guide!!!!11one!!" folks.
And you still failed to show anything in response to my challenge many pages back, so I'll post it again:
Find me one other "bug" or "unintended feature" in the player's manual.
Or, better yet, so we're on the same level: What would you consider a list of "intended effects?" The features page?
-- (CCP Inconsistency)
Why cover it up? We KNOW it's all just about money |
Igor Botanik
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Posted - 2008.10.14 15:33:00 -
[1963]
"We truly hope that the community will understand our actions and continue to...." No, they are not. You sucks with that, CCP.
cu when you fix tommorows bug.
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Total Disaster
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Posted - 2008.10.14 15:33:00 -
[1964]
Originally by: BIind
Originally by: Wussie With training stopping when the account goes inactive there's basically no drawback left for CCP withholding them from introducing the training queue.
You losing 2 weeks worth of SP a year by getting stuck in traffic/sleping/having a life = $$$
People have been asking for a skill queue since day 1, just forget about it already.
I'm pretty sure that the day I die, all I can think about is how my char had 5mil SP less than it would have with a skillqueue.
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WeightedCompanionCube
Aperture Science Enrichment Center
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Posted - 2008.10.14 15:33:00 -
[1965]
Originally by: Seth Ruin
Ghost training can be thought of as still being able to keep your handset. You can still change your wallpapers, listen to MP3s on it, use it as a phone... you just can't make calls or do anything that depends on having a network. I don't know of any cell phone company that repossesses the cell phone after a contract is expired.
Nor does CCP come by to remove the EVE client from your PC. It's still there, you can start it up but it just does not do anything. Like mobile phones 10 years ago. |
Adam Slysphere
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Posted - 2008.10.14 15:33:00 -
[1966]
Originally by: Reptzo
Originally by: WeightedCompanionCube How many people here are actually going to terminate their character in protest rather then just cancel, an action that is easily reversible ?
None, and in all reality, if every post here represents the amount of quitting people, (multiple posts representing alts), than only 1200-1300 people will actually be quitting. Now factoring in all the people that will not resub and such that don't post, means maybe 5-10 k people, tops. So, that is 2-3 % of the total current sub numbers? I don't think it will matter much in the grand scheme.
CCP has made their decision and is obviously going to stick with it.
And on a side note, I trained carrier 5 while playing the game, along with jump cal 5, and many other 1-2 month skills. Don't see what the problem is in making you play the game, or at least pay.
The forums definitely represent the vocal minority. There will be a few people that cancel their accounts. there will be some that cancel and end up coming back after a few months. There will be some that cancel and never come back. It happens in every game every time there's a change made to better the game, but the players don't like it.
CCP won't really feel much of an impact and the people that rage quit will feel better about themselves for awhile.
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Bobith
Gallente Omega Bunnys
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Posted - 2008.10.14 15:34:00 -
[1967]
As with any other grossly abused bugs, we should ban all offenders in the last 5 years.
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Una D
Ex Coelis The Bantam Menace
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Posted - 2008.10.14 15:34:00 -
[1968]
Wow. Nice way to prevent canceling of subscriptions. I guess I could go to my CC company and tell them CCP charged me without my permission but that would be going to far (for now as I hop that they will take their head out of their ass and actually reconsider this crap).
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Marius Duvall
Amarr Merch Industrial GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.10.14 15:34:00 -
[1969]
Originally by: Catherine Frasier
Originally by: Marius Duvall The issue isn't that the players guide isn't a promotion (which is arguable, really) but that a supposed "bug" was listed as an intended effect therein.
No, it never was listed as an intended effect, ever, anywhere. The guide merely described the way things were. All the emorage in the world can't change documentation into proof of intent.
Of course, since this has been pointed out about seven thousand times and ignored about seven thousand times, I don't expect pointing it out again will have any effect on you "But it was in the guide!!!!11one!!" folks.
What? If something is listed in the user manual saying "Hey, you can do this," it's an intended effect. ---
Originally by: "Reticenti" Oh, one note to Scius, you have made Goons and BoB agree on something. Good job.
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Johncrab
Minmatar Typo Corp
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Posted - 2008.10.14 15:35:00 -
[1970]
Funny to hear people saying this is a good thing. I've been playing for 3 and a half years, never stoped paying, never ghost trained (have bs 5, recon 5, cloaking 5, awu 5,...) and still think this is ccp's worst mistake. When I get really tired and want to take a break, leaving a long skill training will be an incentive for me to return. I guess no more.
On top of that, the way they treated us... like we were small children that can be lied to and manipulated... oh well. Never thought I would see the day tbh.
I will keep playing this game, love it too much to quit and have amazing friends in game. But I tell you this: CCP -> Kiss my ass FanFest -> What for? EveMag -> Screw it Spaceship Models -> You must be joking... Everything else you do out of game -> **** you |
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Sir Atkinson
Mercenary Forces
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Posted - 2008.10.14 15:35:00 -
[1971]
I CBA to read thru more than the first 5 pages and I found no reply from CCP here. C'mon CCP get your fingers out. All of them. This is by far the most unpopular "fix" EVER!!!!
Just take it back and say sorry for the inconvienience.
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BIind
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Posted - 2008.10.14 15:35:00 -
[1972]
Originally by: Total Disaster I'm pretty sure that the day I die, all I can think about is how my char had 5mil SP less than it would have with a skillqueue.
Yes, sometimes I get the feeling I shouldn't have bothered with learning skills at all, a 6hr skill which takes 8 hrs because I can't be bothered to wake up for it etc.
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Ayato kun
Edo Ka
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Posted - 2008.10.14 15:36:00 -
[1973]
Originally by: chotaire Fictionary Dev Blog Post from ccp whoever:
Dear players, due to recent financing issues related to national problems we had to decide to disable ghost training for a limited amount of time. Due to our local banks unable to give us the necessary loans to expand our network and hire more programmers to implement the features you people desire, we saw no other chance doing so.
But please be asured this is only a temporary change, as we will rethink our priority list and reward everyone of you with a great new feature in return to be implemented before christmas:
Skill queueing goes in effect with the next major patch in the second week of December, at the same time ghost training will be back available to everyone. However skill queueing will only work if you have an active subscription.
We sincelery hope you understand this decision as we are forced to refinance immediate investments necessary to implement new features that CSM has requested to see available soon, as much as improving our network, hardware and database concept to cope with lag on fleet battles.
Furthermore, we will bring back 30 day time codes sometime next year. We hope this is a good compromise for all of us and we are looking forward to your feedback to discuss this matter before it goes into effect sometime soon.
Best Regards CCP whoever
-3 accounts until this. ________
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Lorgoth
Children of Gjallarhorn
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Posted - 2008.10.14 15:37:00 -
[1974]
"unintended bug" ? yeah, right. and what about contracts or market orders which can last months? will they be put on hold too?
no, guys, it's not a bug. it's called 'programming'.
i never ghost trained, simply cause i could afford ETCs for isk relatively cheap. now it has changed and i'll be damned to pay over 350-400M isk / 2 months of this bugged to hell game.
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Harudan
Minmatar Tribal Liberation Force
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Posted - 2008.10.14 15:37:00 -
[1975]
This is, as someone previously mentioned, disingenuous. CCP's reputation relies on it's attention to the customer's experience and this can be seen as nothing other than an attempt to prevent people from taking a break. Well, CCP, people will take the breaks - they just might not have a reason to come back any more.
If you players want to continue with this game - apply to your CSM rep and have them put it to CCP as a matter of importance.
Why the venom? I was about to lapse on the 20th and set Cruiser V training. As it is, now I am just going to lapse, with no reason to return to the game.
No - you can't have my stuff, I'm going to leave it scattered throughout as many stations as I can in revenge for having first my mining cans "Tidied" then my training nerfed.
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KusariNinja
Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2008.10.14 15:37:00 -
[1976]
don't you all see? It DOES have everything to do with Balance!!! Their Bank Balance! ;)
Kung-Fu movies are like **** films!, First there is one on one, then two on one, then a group scene....... |
Kalmanaka
Caldari The Graduates Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2008.10.14 15:38:00 -
[1977]
When you walk into a store and they offer you a free piece of candy from a bowl, it's okay to take one. If you take half the bowl then you better expect them to take it away. If you cry about it then you're just beyond pathetic.
I personally hope every single person that's crying over a lost freebie that got abused actually does leave. Go play WoW where you belong. Less lag for me. Estimate != Reality What you want != What you get You whine != Someone cares Learn to deal with it. -Abrazzar |
Tag Ibby
Minmatar Counter-Addiction Industries
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Posted - 2008.10.14 15:38:00 -
[1978]
Serious Question CCP.
Did you talk to a lawyer before doing this?
As a Law student myself, I decided to ask some professors and lawyers who I work for about the obligations you may be responsible for.
You are a provider of a good or service ( though some would say your service is laughable at best) and subject to the UCC (Uniform Comercial Code) in the United States as you do significant business here.
You have a boiler plate terms of service agreement that has no way to be shown to have actually been read and thus highly unlikely to be upheld under court scrutiney ( there are numerous cases on record for this, mostly with computer programs, cell phones and insurance companies being sued.)
Perhaps most significantly you ran a promotion encouraging the purchase of second accounts. I dont have the numbers as to how many people took advantage of this offer, but those who did so , did so based on the current rules and features of your player guide. Many of those who took advantage of your offer did so with the knowledge that it was perfectly legal and in fact a feature of your palyer guide that they could ghost train one of the accounts when the time came.
and now you have modified the product you previously sold. Seems very much like a bad faith act.
I think that those who did the power of two offer should seek to be refunded and under the UCC, CCP would have to comply.
for the rest of us who didnt take advantage of the POT option, CCP should consider that this change should be made for each person at the time of the expiration of their account. otherwise we are paying for a service that was not agreed to, and again the boiler plate Terms of Service Agreement you have to click "I agree" on before you play is all CCP has to stand on to defend itself from breach of contract. and as ive stated before, in a case where we payed for the game before the terms of service are signed off on. The terms of service are shaky at best when viewed in court.
anyway, I think if CCP is being honest and this is truly a server load issue, they should have thought their options through a bit better
and for those that dont understeld jurisdictional law. CCP can be hled responsible in US even though they are an Icelandic country because the goods and service they provide make contact with so many american jurisdictions.
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Lord Fitz
Project Amargosa
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Posted - 2008.10.14 15:38:00 -
[1979]
Originally by: Adam Reed
Originally by: Moon Kitten
Originally by: Adam Reed What utter nonsense, how can people be so blinkered as to think that there's any commercial benefit in CCP allowing people to train skills like this? They are a company trying to make a profit, and as much as I'm in favour of smashing capitalism if you're going to have it you have to accept that companies will do what they can to maximse profits.
Frankly I didn't know that this 'ghost training' existed and was surprised to hear that it did, and has lasted so long. To the people moaning about this change, shut up and pay like the rest of us, or sod off and play Guild Wars. Fair play to CCP I say.
Stop thinking about the quarterly financial report and start thinking more long term. Perhaps in terms of years.
What? They are a company, a profit-making company. Why should they provide a service to people who aren't paying them? Justify that in any other industry and I'll pay attention.
If your point is that allowing it will help them somewhere down the line, you've lost me, I don't see how it would. The board of CCP will have considered that when they made the decision and wouldn't have done it if it's likely to impact future profits.
The point is that this will make them profit this month. This will lose them profit next month, and the month after, and in pretty short order lose them money over all. They actually don't have to provide any service to people with inactive accounts training that they don't provide to people with inactive accounts already (that is maintain a database record at the cost of a fraction of a cent).
People who stop paying, can not login. They can't change skills. They don't get any of the service. All that happens is that when they PAY to resubscribe, the last thing they were training, has finished. That's it.
It requires them to pay. Money. For This. Thing. That costs CCP nothing.
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Triksterism
Gallente Frozen Corpse Inspection Services United Federation of Capsuleers
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Posted - 2008.10.14 15:38:00 -
[1980]
Originally by: Kalmanaka When you walk into a store and they offer you a free piece of candy from a bowl, it's okay to take one. If you take half the bowl then you better expect them to take it away. If you cry about it then you're just beyond pathetic.
I personally hope every single person that's crying over a lost freebie that got abused actually does leave. Go play WoW where you belong. Less lag for me.
It's actually less lag when they ghost train too. -
Ghost Train & Snowflake |
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Tara Yang
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Posted - 2008.10.14 15:39:00 -
[1981]
All in all it is an epic fail that ghost training was stated as a feature and used as a positive thing. And then later on saying it's a bug. (I know has been said a million times already in this thread). But even more so is the fact that they ninja edited after people pointed it out to CCP. But the biggest one is the fact that you can not even log in and change something on your account details and saying
Originally by: My account message The EVE-online website is undergoing maintenance. We are sorry for any inconvenience caused.
Which we all know is utter CR@P. There is now mainenance done on that. They just don't want people making irradicat desscions.
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Fron Arran
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Posted - 2008.10.14 15:39:00 -
[1982]
Thin end of the wedge?
How long before we see "Accounts dormant for more than 3 consecutive months will be deleted to free up database space" ?
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Borg Zorg
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Posted - 2008.10.14 15:39:00 -
[1983]
well lets disobey in game. Lets set few systems to bring down permanently for 3 days. Take your chars there,fill the system whith let say 2000 ppl and fit rr dronse and moduls and just lag the hell out of game. jita coud be nice place. If we all bring our mains in jita it relese tons of dronse and activate rr moduls ccp will see what r real problems to solve in this game. And will see that u canot ignor and lie ppl who r actualy paying thier products. so guys start moving your mains and alts to jita. Im on my way now...... see you all there
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Sebiestor Sid
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Posted - 2008.10.14 15:39:00 -
[1984]
Either way you argue it, it is pretty clear that this 'bug fix' will result in fewer alt subscriptions and also keep players from returning after breaks.
I think that puts the Eve Economy and the game itself into decline.
We are all going to lose friends, and some of us will struggle as key business contacts and market opportunities we have already invested in disappear. I don't think it will take a frustrated player base long to realize that this is more like a submarine sim with some really WOW-ishly absurd features.
Bad move.
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Tobias Sjodin
Ore Mongers Black Hand.
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Posted - 2008.10.14 15:40:00 -
[1985]
Here is my modified version of this devblog:
"Hello capsuleers, we at CCP have in the past had a genuine concern for our playerbase - we listened intently to your wishes and had content especially made to keep you, the gamer entertained. We realize our training system was a bit boring in the past so we had the option of training with an inactive account. However, this is now going to disappear. The more users we have, the less each user is worth to us, particularly his or her opinion. We're sick and tired of hearing all your whining so the bonuses you used to get to stay in this game are gonna go away, that's for being ungrateful. And if you cancel your subscription - we won't miss you, in fact with you gone it just means less whiners. We're not sure if we will make less or more money from this, but good riddance if you quit EVE because of this removal of training with an inactive account."
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Annaphera
Minmatar Super Green Industries
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Posted - 2008.10.14 15:41:00 -
[1986]
Originally by: Triksterism
Originally by: Annaphera
Originally by: Triksterism
You're missing the point. Not everyone ghost trains their level 5's. However, it is a popular thing to do when people want to take a break from eve. People should have the option. It is what CCP promoted and it is what has attracted many people to the game.
Great. Let them take a break from Eve. And like any other service, they get NONE of the benefits the paying customers do while they are gone! Everyone acts like this was an entitlement...that you should be entitled to some perk without paying. Bullcookies.
Oh, and yet again...the flippin' game manual is NOT a promotion! I'd also like to see a survey that asks people's primary reason for starting to play Eve - while I'd bet that offline skill gain would make the top three, I'd lay money that inactive skill gain wouldn't. Or maybe people are bigger parasites than I want to believe...
Do people on WoW continue to get "sleep xp" when their accounts are inactive? Just wondering.
The thing here though, Annaphera, is that people can still train a skill but the trade off is they can't play without paying. Unfortunatly there are those who abuse it to farm isk.
No...the minute you stop paying for WoW, rest XP stops. Not to mention that there is a sizable percentage of the population that can't get rest XP, and so get no benefit at all (any toon with max level). Makes Eve look pretty good by comparison.
In all seriousness - I know you can't play without paying, what I want to know is why it seems to be viewed as an entitlement that you gain any benefit at all without paying. NO other game allows that. Eve did, but now it's gone too far, and they are going to have to stop.
I can understand people being disappointed, and even a bit of irritation at the short notice, but I can't understand the sheer level of rage over this. If every ad you saw while browsing the web listed this as a selling point, or even mentioned it at all, I'd get it. If CCP mentioned it in their 'Power of 2' promotion page as something they thought you should do with a second account, the emotions here would be understandable. Instead, it's a few words buried in the player's guide. CCP has the right to change game function in any way they like, when ever they like; most of those changes will mess with something in the players' guide. The players guide doesn't list or comment on intent. Why has no one ever accused them of lying for it before? Not that it is lying, but why is it carted out and held out as proof that CCP lies only now?
Its the sheer magnitude of the reaction that baffles me.
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Lord Fitz
Project Amargosa
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Posted - 2008.10.14 15:41:00 -
[1987]
Originally by: Tag Ibby Serious Question CCP.
Did you talk to a lawyer before doing this?
Pretty sure it was a lawyer they talked to.
Because it wasn't a DBA. It wasn't an economist. It wasn't someone in marketing. It wasn't someone that plays the game.
They can legally do this, if you dispute this, you need to study law more. All you pay for is the right to pay them. They don't even have to have the server available for you to login, ever.
There is nothing wrong with them doing this from a legal point of view.
Every other point of view however.........
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Gorek Loc
Etherware Heavy Engineering
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Posted - 2008.10.14 15:41:00 -
[1988]
Introduce multiple account discount for your loyal customers!
'ghost-training' will be reduced by 50% since people can actually afford to have multiple aco****s running!
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Trent Nichols
Di-Tron Heavy Industries Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2008.10.14 15:42:00 -
[1989]
Since I started playing Eve real life issues combined with the fact that I sometimes just need a break from the game have caused me to put my subscription on hold several times. Because of this "Ghost training" was one of my favorite features of the game. I could put a long skill in the oven and have something to look forward to when I came back.
On more than one occasion, having something new to try out is what drew me back into the game. I am certain I would not have reactivated my account had this feature (Yes, Feature!) not been in place. In fact, I probably would not have started playing in the fist place.
As of a few months ago, my main is on a year sub (which I'm starting to regret) but my alt is not. If training that character is to become more expensive, I may have to let the account go.
Lately Ive had little desire to play Eve. CCP has been busy making ham handed changes and ignoring their customers. Now they have clearly demonstrated a willingness to screw their customers over and lie about their reasons for doing so. This kinda bull***t just kills my appetite for the game.
Logistics deployables mean less grind and more pewpew! |
LadyMaverick
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Posted - 2008.10.14 15:43:00 -
[1990]
May this picture echo throughtout the time forever.
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Gorek Loc
Etherware Heavy Engineering
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Posted - 2008.10.14 15:43:00 -
[1991]
I guess the next thing they will introduce is a deletion of accounts that are not active for more than a month!
A sure way to lose customers, which seems to be their plan anyway. They want to ruin their economy? It would look bad if CCP was the only company in Iceland not close to financial ruin!
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Vietone
Gallente Inherently Risky Schemes
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Posted - 2008.10.14 15:45:00 -
[1992]
Some people here make no rational on why they shouldn't remove this bug. Yes its a bug, its something that I didnt even know about and it is unfair. Why should people who dont pay gain skillpoints the same as people who do?
When did they ever advertise it? Cause its definitely not listed in any obvious place or on any of their game ads. Therefore, they never did intend it to be a feature for people to get the game for. If I had known that I could have trained Industrial V for my character or Exhumer V without paying, sure, I might have done it but I didnt know about it because of the fact that they never advertised it.
So people want a solution? Fine let people continue to ghost train, but instead of training at their normal rate, make it so they train only 10% of their skillpoint they would normally get if their character was active. Make it so that every skill takes 10x longer than it would if an account is not paid for. That seems more fair if people want to ghost train. Make it so that 28 day Battleship 5 skill takes 280 days if they decide to ghost train it.
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Sailon
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Posted - 2008.10.14 15:45:00 -
[1993]
Next they remove market orders from player who are inactive and then they remove ability to buy game time with isk.
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Lord Fitz
Project Amargosa
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Posted - 2008.10.14 15:45:00 -
[1994]
Originally by: Annaphera CCP has the right to change game function in any way they like, when ever they like; most of those changes will mess with something in the players' guide. The players guide doesn't list or comment on intent. Why has no one ever accused them of lying for it before? Not that it is lying, but why is it carted out and held out as proof that CCP lies only now?
Its the sheer magnitude of the reaction that baffles me.
Obviously they have that right. I don't dispute that. They can do anything with the game, it is theirs. We don't own it. We just pay to continue to maybe once in a while think about being allowed to login.
They're lying not in the players guide, but in their reasons for making the change.
You need to wake up and pay attention if you think this is the first, or even fiftieth time they have lied to their player base and treated us like idiots. Because either they think we are, or they are.
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xOm3gAx
Caldari Stain of Mind
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Posted - 2008.10.14 15:46:00 -
[1995]
Wrangler i should state that you all need to read this. Seriously after reading this shit i wish i didnt renew my acct for a year. Its bull shit man plain and simple. Do i blame you? No. But this does upset me, its obviously NOT a bug and is a FEATURE there is no denying it. This is why i miss Tomb, he was hardcore didn't care who he ****ed off in the process and always stuck to his vision of EvE... Whomever made this decision only cares about your wallet not your community, and i understand the wallet is an issue but face reality stuff like this makes you look bad.
Originally by: CCP t0rfifrans
As many of you know by now, on Wednesday, Oct 15th, CCP will put out a server update disabling "ghost training". Ghost Training was an unintended feature where unpaid accounts of EVE Online were able to continue training skills. While this allowed players to run multiple characters on a shoestring budget, in all effect, this was a bug.
Player Guide
Originally by: Player Guide
How to Train Skills
You already have some skills when you start a new character. To take those to the next level, open your character sheet (go to the upper picture on the left menu bar) and go to the Skills section. Right-click on the skill you want to train and select Train to Level X. There is also a Settings menu, which gives you different options. One of the options here is Show All Skills, which will display all the skills available in game in your sheet. If you select this option, you will see some skills with a green check mark and others with a red cross in your character sheet. The green check mark indicates that you have the prerequisites to train the skill; the red cross shows that there are still some skills you have to train before being able to acquire this particular skill.
The skills that you don't already have in your character sheet will have to be bought from the market. They are sold by ingame factions controlled by Non Player Characters (NPCs), and also re-sold by players. Sometimes, skill books are loot drops on missions, too. Some race specific skills only get sold in the space of that particular faction, and when they are sold outside the area, they are often more expensive. Therefore, if you need a Gallente skill, for example, it is advisable to check how much it is being sold for in Gallente space. After you have bought a skill, it will show up in your hangar, where you can train it via the right-click command.
You will only have to buy a skill book once - it can be trained to the next level without having to buy a new book.
Some skills can't be trained on trial accounts. Those skills are marked in the Description tab of the info on the skill book.
Skills continue training even if you are logged off, but the skill will no longer continue to train on inactive accounts (an inactive account is when youÆre no longer paying the subscription, training will still continue when youÆve logged off on an subscribed account). As a result, it is a good idea to train short skills while you are playing and longer ones when you log off. If you want to switch skills, you can simply do so by starting another skill training. The points gained on the previous skill will not be lost, but you don't benefit from the training until the level is fully completed. The highest level for any skill is Level 5, but some skills also have an advanced version. Some of those advanced skills influence the same area as the basic version, others only a related area.
There is no skill point cap in EVE. You will most probably also not reach the point where you have trained all skills available, since new ones are added once in a while, and there is also a huge amount of them available. However, it is possible to max out all the skills in a certain category.
You can only train one character per account and one skill per character at the same time, but it is possible to train several ones, one after another.
Originally by: CCP Abraxas Her boyfriend's way hot, too; tall and tanned. And I say this as a very hetero male who doesn't ever dream of the man on cold, dark nights.
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Richard Aiel
Caldari Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2008.10.14 15:46:00 -
[1996]
active subscription request: http://eve.coldfront.net/status/tranquility
It looks like over the year that the population is climbing not declining, but after this news we'll see linkage |
Mohenna
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Posted - 2008.10.14 15:46:00 -
[1997]
Edited by: Mohenna on 14/10/2008 15:46:33 Teh internet is broken!!11 Nobody used the wayback machine yet. I have to fix it. See the past versions of the guide in their full truth:
http://web.archive.org/web/20080212211449/http://www.eve-online.com/guide/en/g615.asp http://web.archive.org/web/20080122061230/http://www.eve-online.com/guide/en/g615.asp http://web.archive.org/web/20071229095941/http://www.eve-online.com/guide/en/g615.asp http://web.archive.org/web/20071206164722/http://www.eve-online.com/guide/en/g615.asp
...That said... I support the change. PAY YOU CHEAPSKATES!! (yeah, their PR skill sux, CCP truly are players: they minimized their charisma :D)
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Sailon
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Posted - 2008.10.14 15:47:00 -
[1998]
Originally by: Vietone Some people here make no rational on why they shouldn't remove this bug. Yes its a bug, its something that I didnt even know about and it is unfair. Why should people who dont pay gain skillpoints the same as people who do?
When did they ever advertise it? Cause its definitely not listed in any obvious place or on any of their game ads. Therefore, they never did intend it to be a feature for people to get the game for. If I had known that I could have trained Industrial V for my character or Exhumer V without paying, sure, I might have done it but I didnt know about it because of the fact that they never advertised it.
So people want a solution? Fine let people continue to ghost train, but instead of training at their normal rate, make it so they train only 10% of their skillpoint they would normally get if their character was active. Make it so that every skill takes 10x longer than it would if an account is not paid for. That seems more fair if people want to ghost train. Make it so that 28 day Battleship 5 skill takes 280 days if they decide to ghost train it.
too extreme make it to the reasonal numbers
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Solomon XI
Hoist The Colors. Pirate Coalition
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Posted - 2008.10.14 15:47:00 -
[1999]
And yet you, CCP, removed the 30-day GTC's making it HARDER for people to stay in the game. This is idiotic at best. ~Solo Hoist The Colors. (CEO) Pirate Coalition (Yar?) |
Weggla
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Posted - 2008.10.14 15:48:00 -
[2000]
thanks for making my consideration of restarting to pay for eve again so easy. Goodbye, hope your bank account will "balance" too.
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CowsCANBark
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Posted - 2008.10.14 15:49:00 -
[2001]
http://www.ccp.is/press/investors.asp
Don't like this change? Place a call and complain to the board of directors:
Vilhjßlmur ¦orsteinsson - Tel: +354 551 7102 (Iceland)
Birgir Mßr Ragnarsson - Tel: +44 207 647 1543 (United Kingdom)
David P. Fialkow - Tel: +1 617 234 7007 (USA)
Sigur=ur +lafsson - Tel: +354 414 6000 (Iceland)
Reynir Har=arson - Tel: +354 540 9100 (Iceland)
Isaac Kato - Tel: +1 617 234 7007 (USA)
Navigator if you don't want us to post personal information take it off your website, this is the same thing as saying, here send an email to us and we'll help you out. These guys are the ones who decide how your company runs so we have all the right to contact them about how us, the consumer, would like to see it work.
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Borg Zorg
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Posted - 2008.10.14 15:49:00 -
[2002]
inviting all unsadisfied player to bring their mains and alts on lag fest to jita. manifastacion is good way of showing how unsadisfied you are.Bring remot reping moduls and remot reping dronse.2000 unhapy users and 10000 reping dronse looks like nice protest to me. Im on my way to jita. See u there
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Saladin
Minmatar Eternity INC.
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Posted - 2008.10.14 15:50:00 -
[2003]
I hate to sound like a fanboi, but here goes.
I played a few MMOs before EvE, and if the account went inactive there was no garantee any of your characters or your stuff stayed in the db after a few weeks. It was only 3 years into EvE that I learned that skills train while offline. Limiting skill training to paying customers makes total sense and it was the way I assumed it worked.
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James Malice
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Posted - 2008.10.14 15:51:00 -
[2004]
And I was planning on getting a second account too... you know... when you said that ghost training wasn't a bug...
Effin capitalist dogs.
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Annaphera
Minmatar Super Green Industries
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Posted - 2008.10.14 15:51:00 -
[2005]
Originally by: Venus Einstein
Originally by: Sonao
Originally by: Avon Hey, your bug...
Skills continue training even if you are logged off or if your account is inactive
I found it in the player guide.
You guys better get in there and ninja-edit it.
It has been ninja-ed now!
Skills continue training even if you are logged off, but the skill will no longer continue to train on inactive accounts (an inactive account is when youÆre no longer paying the subscription, training will still continue when youÆve logged off on an subscribed account).
Thanks guys!
So here we are ccp SHITS at us, not even waiting until this tread explodes or the patch is done First time the light comes, before the fire burns
MUHAHAAAAAAA (any Lehman Bros banker hired at CCP the last weeks????)
Ye gods...get a clue. The thread has already exploded. Now, please re-read the change to the guide. A ninja-change would make the guide look like inactive training never was allowed - something like "Skills continue training even if you are logged off." Instead, they used language that makes it sound like ghost training used to work, but now doesn't. Even if you don't read it that way, it's at least mentioned, and specifically states that it doesn't work now. WTF do you want from them?
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Iggy H
Artifex Celestia
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Posted - 2008.10.14 15:51:00 -
[2006]
Ok, I can understand why you are doing this from a business perspective. Personally, I have multiple accounts that are ALL actively paid for, so I have not been able to "partake" of ghost training unless I forget to enter a GTC in time and lapse for a day here or there.. (yes, I think that CCP should allow training to continue for say somewhere between 2-5 days after your account expires, or possible send you a "reminder" e-mail or something)
My other concern is that there are a number of other things that currently continue to happen on Ghost accounts. 1) Data Cores. Yep, you still get data-cores, so if you are gone for a year or so, you get to cash in on data cores when you didn't pay for them 2) Market Buy / Sell orders - These also stay.. Again, I would ask for a grace period of a few days so that users don't need to re-enter all their trades if they miss the re-sub deadline. However if you are going to be fair, all market orders for a un-subbed account should also go away.
I'm also sure that there are other things I'm missing, but if you are going to disable training because they are not paying, make sure you apply it evenly across all aspects of the game.
Thanks!
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SetInEdill
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Posted - 2008.10.14 15:51:00 -
[2007]
Account management is down. https://secure.eve-online.com/AccountManMenu.aspx Stop deleting accounts =) Stop it!!!!1111oneone
lol, just lol
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Karina Mei
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.10.14 15:52:00 -
[2008]
Originally by: Tara Yang
Which we all know is utter CR@P. There is now maintenance done on that. They just don't want people making irrational decisions.
Seems a very convenient coincidence
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Lord Fitz
Project Amargosa
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Posted - 2008.10.14 15:52:00 -
[2009]
Originally by: Richard Aiel active subscription request: http://eve.coldfront.net/status/tranquility
It looks like over the year that the population is climbing not declining, but after this news we'll see
PCU for the year was in March, looks like a decline since then to me. 42711 then, 39317 PCU in the last month. I'm betting the subscription numbers have down turned a lot more. Word economics, 60 day GTCs, the game. etc etc.
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BIind
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Posted - 2008.10.14 15:53:00 -
[2010]
Originally by: Annaphera In all seriousness - I know you can't play without paying, what I want to know is why it seems to be viewed as an entitlement that you gain any benefit at all without paying. NO other game allows that.
The way WoW is setup makes it a lot easier to catch up if you jump in for a month or two to see how things are going. You get better gear easier than those who had to do attunements and stuff months ago, you can get PLed by people etc. If you return to EVE without ghost training you're looking at the same boring months of training you did when you left, at least now you can return to a char with a shiny new ship to fly if you set Cruiser V before leaving.
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Todoshi
Caldari Caldari Logistics and Supplies
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Posted - 2008.10.14 15:54:00 -
[2011]
Originally by: Borg Zorg inviting all unsadisfied player to bring their mains and alts on lag fest to jita. manifastacion is good way of showing how unsadisfied you are.Bring remot reping moduls and remot reping dronse.2000 unhapy users and 10000 reping dronse looks like nice protest to me. Im on my way to jita. See u there
See you in Jita
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Cerfari
Terra Incognita Vanguard.
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Posted - 2008.10.14 15:54:00 -
[2012]
i dont see what all the fuss is about... it feels to me like everyone was trying to cheat to get their skills up.
although, i am kinda ****ed that i did not read that i could train while not paying. I bet i would have saved myself a few $15 training them lvl 5 skills
but seriously... it could be worse
~----|+|----~
Vanguard. KillBoard ~----|+|----~
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LadyMaverick
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Posted - 2008.10.14 15:55:00 -
[2013]
Originally by: Saladin I hate to sound like a fanboi, but here goes.
I played a few MMOs before EvE, and if the account went inactive there was no garantee any of your characters or your stuff stayed in the db after a few weeks. It was only 3 years into EvE that I learned that skills train while offline. Limiting skill training to paying customers makes total sense and it was the way I assumed it worked.
Then you should have read player guide more carefully in the first place... kthxbye
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Emerald Cortess
Caldari Konstrukteure der Zukunft
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Posted - 2008.10.14 15:55:00 -
[2014]
Short answer: This sucks!
Long answer: This sucks, ...for me and should also for CCP. I just planned to set a longer skill since my Acc is running out in a few days and come back after a month or less and have a new toy. Now i won't have a reason to reactivate my acc anymore. Now it doesn't matter if i leave eve for just a month or half a year. Right now i'm not quiet sure if i'll buy another GTC or not. But this decision does not rely on this patch (this time!)
Sarcastic answer: Great idea! But there is more to do: AFK-Training ... people just sitting cloaked in their falcons all day long and are 'skilling'. That's not fair! I would suggest a system where u get skillpoints by killing NPC-Rats and doing missions. Or even better and maybe more functional: Learning by doing! First, u have to buy the skill. Then u already can fit a module which needs that skill. But u can't just 'right-cklick-train-to', u actually have to use the module. So for example u gain SP in gunnery when activating a gun to a ship. Or u get better in the EM-Compensation-Skill when u have fitted a EM-Hardener and someone is shooting u with EM-Missiles. As far as i know, this would be the first mmorpg using such system and it would make EVE very very special.
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Wootang
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Posted - 2008.10.14 15:56:00 -
[2015]
Originally by: CowsCANBark http://www.ccp.is/press/investors.asp
Don't like this change? Place a call and complain to the board of directors:
Vilhjßlmur ¦orsteinsson - Tel: +354 551 7102 (Iceland)
Birgir Mßr Ragnarsson - Tel: +44 207 647 1543 (United Kingdom)
David P. Fialkow - Tel: +1 617 234 7007 (USA)
Sigur=ur +lafsson - Tel: +354 414 6000 (Iceland)
Reynir Har=arson - Tel: +354 540 9100 (Iceland)
Isaac Kato - Tel: +1 617 234 7007 (USA)
Navigator if you don't want us to post personal information take it off your website, this is the same thing as saying, here send an email to us and we'll help you out. These guys are the ones who decide how your company runs so we have all the right to contact them about how us, the consumer, would like to see it work.
totally agree! stop treating us, the customers, like this! its our right to complain and the contact information is online for everyone to find ion the web... its just like a quote from your own contact information! the fact that you delete it just shows that your afraid of getting phone calls
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Hixxy
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Posted - 2008.10.14 15:56:00 -
[2016]
Originally by: Solomon XI And yet you, CCP, removed the 30-day GTC's making it HARDER for people to stay in the game. This is idiotic at best.
your conclusion may be wrong. getting rid of 30 day cards was beginging of this and i'm guessing they were proven right so this next step was implemented.
it's a different business model bit like making 1p profit on 100 sales or 10p profit on 10 sales. same profit just less work.
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xOm3gAx
Caldari Stain of Mind
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Posted - 2008.10.14 15:56:00 -
[2017]
Edited by: xOm3gAx on 14/10/2008 15:57:56 dbl
Originally by: CCP Abraxas Her boyfriend's way hot, too; tall and tanned. And I say this as a very hetero male who doesn't ever dream of the man on cold, dark nights.
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Die Unknown
Amarr Surge.
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Posted - 2008.10.14 15:56:00 -
[2018]
It's hard to not think that this decision has been influenced by the recent world-wide economic problems.
I would have thought that it's a bit daft to pull the rag under so many people's feet when so many are strugling to make the ends meet.
This is a new low for ccp
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BIind
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Posted - 2008.10.14 15:57:00 -
[2019]
Originally by: Emerald Cortess So for example u gain SP in gunnery when activating a gun to a ship. Or u get better in the EM-Compensation-Skill when u have fitted a EM-Hardener and someone is shooting u with EM-Missiles. As far as i know, this would be the first mmorpg using such system and it would make EVE very very special.
UO was like this.
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Rancid Oswald
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Posted - 2008.10.14 15:58:00 -
[2020]
Simply lol at the replies....
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Triksterism
Gallente Frozen Corpse Inspection Services United Federation of Capsuleers
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Posted - 2008.10.14 15:58:00 -
[2021]
Edited by: Triksterism on 14/10/2008 15:58:08
Originally by: BIind
Originally by: Emerald Cortess So for example u gain SP in gunnery when activating a gun to a ship. Or u get better in the EM-Compensation-Skill when u have fitted a EM-Hardener and someone is shooting u with EM-Missiles. As far as i know, this would be the first mmorpg using such system and it would make EVE very very special.
UO was like this.
As was Dark Ages -
Ghost Train & Snowflake |
Mr Jollys
Minmatar Night Theifs Apotheosis of Virtue
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Posted - 2008.10.14 15:58:00 -
[2022]
I think that this should not be changed due to the precident that has been in place for 5 years.
This is a major change in the fuctionality of gameplay.
Remember what Lucas Arts/SOE did to Star Wars Galaxies.
They completely detroyed that game, and the servers are like ghost towns. Let all MMO devs and beancounters learn from SWG.
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Catherine Frasier
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Posted - 2008.10.14 15:59:00 -
[2023]
Originally by: Seth Ruin And you still failed to show anything in response to my challenge many pages back, so I'll post it again:
Find me one other "bug" or "unintended feature" in the player's manual.
I don't know of any off-hand (and have no intention of paging through the guide looking). But since the guide doesn't say anything about intent one way or the other on 99% of the game's mechanics, and since I can't read minds, how can we know what was intended and what was emergent? What I do know is that it makes no damn difference either way. Even if this was the only unintended feature documented in the guide then that just means that this was the only unintended feature documented in the guide, and so what?
Now, if you could show that CCP was explicitly using this "feature" in advertising, while it would still not show intent, it would justify some of the annoyance at this decision.
Originally by: Seth Ruin Or, better yet, so we're on the same level: What would you consider a list of "intended effects?" The features page?
I wouldn't expect such a list, period, why would you? Why would CCP (or anyone) run through each and every aspect of the game and specify; "Meant to do that", "Just got lucky", and "Ooops"?
The guide describes how things are regardless of how they ended up that way. Reading more into it is unwarranted.
Quite simply: They say it was unintended and there is nothing which indicates that's untrue. Certainly there's nothing remotely resembling proof that it's untrue. Without proof, without evidence, all you have is your tinfoil hat/black helicopter nonsense being used to justify your annoyance at this decision by painting them as "liars".
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Adam Slysphere
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Posted - 2008.10.14 16:00:00 -
[2024]
Originally by: Mr Jollys I think that this should not be changed due to the precident that has been in place for 5 years.
This is a major change in the fuctionality of gameplay.
Remember what Lucas Arts/SOE did to Star Wars Galaxies.
They completely detroyed that game, and the servers are like ghost towns. Let all MMO devs and beancounters learn from SWG.
that's being a bit dramatic ... It's not like they're replacing EVE's skill based system with a class based system like WoW. ;)
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Zurtan Bayle
Minmatar The Wings of Maak
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Posted - 2008.10.14 16:00:00 -
[2025]
CCP, be honnest... your are planning to deploy the queue skill system, with the Certificats in support, but you can't find a technical way to stop only the next skill queued on an inactive account... right? ;)
By the way, this decision still a big mistake IMO...
-1 account for me... |
Seth Ruin
Minmatar Ominous Corp Ethereal Dawn
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Posted - 2008.10.14 16:00:00 -
[2026]
Edited by: Seth Ruin on 14/10/2008 16:00:19
Originally by: BIind
Originally by: Emerald Cortess So for example u gain SP in gunnery when activating a gun to a ship. Or u get better in the EM-Compensation-Skill when u have fitted a EM-Hardener and someone is shooting u with EM-Missiles. As far as i know, this would be the first mmorpg using such system and it would make EVE very very special.
UO was like this.
Yeah... And UO is doing so well now compared to back then! http://mmogdata.voig.com/voig/ContentList/MMOGDATA/Charts/7.ViewChart?aLanguage=en-us&a5Years=Y
Edit: clicky
-- (CCP Inconsistency)
Why cover it up? We KNOW it's all just about money |
ATARI BABY
Lords Of Guile
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Posted - 2008.10.14 16:01:00 -
[2027]
Originally by: Richard Aiel active subscription request: http://eve.coldfront.net/status/tranquility
It looks like over the year that the population is climbing not declining, but after this news we'll see
it will climb anyway.. maybe some loss for these days but it will climb.
LIE |
Triksterism
Gallente Frozen Corpse Inspection Services United Federation of Capsuleers
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Posted - 2008.10.14 16:01:00 -
[2028]
Originally by: Seth Ruin Edited by: Seth Ruin on 14/10/2008 16:00:19
Originally by: BIind
Originally by: Emerald Cortess So for example u gain SP in gunnery when activating a gun to a ship. Or u get better in the EM-Compensation-Skill when u have fitted a EM-Hardener and someone is shooting u with EM-Missiles. As far as i know, this would be the first mmorpg using such system and it would make EVE very very special.
UO was like this.
Yeah... And UO is doing so well now compared to back then! http://mmogdata.voig.com/voig/ContentList/MMOGDATA/Charts/7.ViewChart?aLanguage=en-us&a5Years=Y
Edit: clicky
It's not doing too bad considering the graphics are ancient. Which is the reason most MMOs 'drop off' -
Ghost Train & Snowflake |
Lallante
Reikoku Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.10.14 16:02:00 -
[2029]
As much as I think this change is counterproductive from a revenue point of view, it does amuse me to see how many people are willing to convince THEMSELVES they have a legitimate gripe against ccps actions (eg "you said it was a feature 2 years ago" or whatever else) when the REAL and ONLY reason they are ****ed off is because it disadvantages them.....
Lall - THE Vocal Minority - Reikoku
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Shakra Mar
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Posted - 2008.10.14 16:02:00 -
[2030]
Edited by: Shakra Mar on 14/10/2008 16:03:00 I really dont get all the whining "Waaa, I'm not going to get something for nothing anymore! I'm going to take my ball and go home." Get over it already. If you want to play and progress through a subscription based game then expect to pay the damn subscription; its not an unreasonable concept. If you cant deal with that go check out Progress Quest... |
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Seriya
Caldari The Priory
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Posted - 2008.10.14 16:03:00 -
[2031]
Congratulations on putting up a Dev Blog to explain in detail, as you should have done in the first place.
However, I still hate you.
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Borg Zorg
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Posted - 2008.10.14 16:03:00 -
[2032]
Originally by: Todoshi
Originally by: Borg Zorg inviting all unsadisfied player to bring their mains and alts on lag fest to jita. manifastacion is good way of showing how unsadisfied you are.Bring remot reping moduls and remot reping dronse.2000 unhapy users and 10000 reping dronse looks like nice protest to me. Im on my way to jita. See u there
See you in Jita
come to protest guys. Let see real power of players???
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Lord Fitz
Project Amargosa
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Posted - 2008.10.14 16:03:00 -
[2033]
Five and a Half years for something retrospectively described as a bug-fix. Only four to go until this implant does something then !
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Seth Ruin
Minmatar Ominous Corp Ethereal Dawn
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Posted - 2008.10.14 16:03:00 -
[2034]
Originally by: Catherine Frasier
Originally by: Seth Ruin And you still failed to show anything in response to my challenge many pages back, so I'll post it again:
Find me one other "bug" or "unintended feature" in the player's manual.
I don't know of any off-hand (and have no intention of paging through the guide looking). But since the guide doesn't say anything about intent one way or the other on 99% of the game's mechanics, and since I can't read minds, how can we know what was intended and what was emergent? What I do know is that it makes no damn difference either way. Even if this was the only unintended feature documented in the guide then that just means that this was the only unintended feature documented in the guide, and so what?
Now, if you could show that CCP was explicitly using this "feature" in advertising, while it would still not show intent, it would justify some of the annoyance at this decision.
Originally by: Seth Ruin Or, better yet, so we're on the same level: What would you consider a list of "intended effects?" The features page?
I wouldn't expect such a list, period, why would you? Why would CCP (or anyone) run through each and every aspect of the game and specify; "Meant to do that", "Just got lucky", and "Ooops"?
The guide describes how things are regardless of how they ended up that way. Reading more into it is unwarranted.
Quite simply: They say it was unintended and there is nothing which indicates that's untrue. Certainly there's nothing remotely resembling proof that it's untrue. Without proof, without evidence, all you have is your tinfoil hat/black helicopter nonsense being used to justify your annoyance at this decision by painting them as "liars".
So here you're going to tell me neither you nor your main will ever complain about any game change ever, correct? Because after all, nothing is really an "intended feature." I hope you're not one of the people complaining about the nano-nerf, either, because none of that was "intended" either.
-- (CCP Inconsistency)
Why cover it up? We KNOW it's all just about money |
rapidity
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Posted - 2008.10.14 16:03:00 -
[2035]
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Callib Gor'Karrithe
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.10.14 16:04:00 -
[2036]
I honestly can't believe how many people are freaking out because they're no longer allowed a service that they were not even paying for in the first place.
The other thing that seems to go over peoples' heads is that we've all been *****ing and moaning collectively for a while that there's no method for queueing up skills for training, so you can just run through... say (arbitrarily) six skills without having to select the next one as the current one finishes. As CCP has said time and time again, this would just increase the amount of skills someone can ghost train.
But... oh, look at that. Ghost training is gone. Gee, would this not be a bit of foreshadowing to queued training?
Seriously, guys... you need to calm down and get it into your heads that running this shit costs CCP money. If you want to play with the big fancy toy that costs money, then you must pay money. Otherwise you get what you pay for: nothing, and have little right to complain for it.
Crying bloody murder about things like this just shows how immature so many of you mooks are, and how you either don't care to - or simply don't have the intelligence to - grasp the fact that EVE is a product owned and constantly upkept by a business. The business needs money, and ghost training is the equivalent of giving out freebies.
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ISIAM
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Posted - 2008.10.14 16:05:00 -
[2037]
I'm Sorry for all the devs, artist, programmers, management, and all other staff that may lose their jobs when C.C.P has to cut back on employees, because of this choice to change their own rules to stay afloat. I do realize That for C.C.P. to have come to this conclusion, It's very infrastructure must be under great stain. I will not speculate as to weather or not this may be the beginning of the end for C.C.P. , But I will say It's so for EVE. I hope That those at C.C.P. responsible for this decision realize Their mistake and move swiftly to right it. I for one would settle for Higher rates or some "else", but to change the very bones that call many to EVE is simply stupid. So in conclusion, I would like all that Find this decision a bad one, spread the word to your friends and corp mates to write, E-mail, and call C.C.P. and let them know, don't just do what we always do and just let it go by the way side. we as consumers do have voice and if they laugh at you then speak with your money. sadly yours, "ISIAM"
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Lungorthin
Black Eclipse Corp Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.10.14 16:05:00 -
[2038]
I quote from your blog: But recently we have seen a surge in this behavior in a way that we were essentially supporting and maintaining a large number of customers that weren't paying us regular subscriptions
The reason why this happened is pretty obvious. It coincides with the introduction of the 60 days card which is more expensive and has the added bonus of giving less game time, great.
Call it the Butterfly effect if you want, you called it an "avalanche", I am not suprised by this surge.
It is a bit heavy that 'normal' gameplay requires individual players to have multiple accounts and at the same time CCP punishes financially the people who do so.
***
I used to renew my alt when ghost training was about to finish, that was my timer that said "renew now". I am curious if an "avalanche" of no-renews will hit you now.
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Rancid Oswald
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Posted - 2008.10.14 16:05:00 -
[2039]
Originally by: Borg Zorg
Originally by: Todoshi
Originally by: Borg Zorg inviting all unsadisfied player to bring their mains and alts on lag fest to jita. manifastacion is good way of showing how unsadisfied you are.Bring remot reping moduls and remot reping dronse.2000 unhapy users and 10000 reping dronse looks like nice protest to me. Im on my way to jita. See u there
See you in Jita
come to protest guys. Let see real power of players???
Why go to a system that has a cap? /me hides
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Adam Slysphere
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Posted - 2008.10.14 16:05:00 -
[2040]
Originally by: rapidity
lol
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Raxis Omicron
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Posted - 2008.10.14 16:05:00 -
[2041]
This is the final straw in the realisation of the fundamental flaw in eve. The one which at times made things interesting, but inevitably was designed purely as a revenue generating measure. This is the fact that "skills" require no actual effort at all to train, simply time and money. In reality an individual can produce an advanced eve toon by simply spending a few hundred dollars on ETC's to convert to isk and subsequently waiting and switching skill trains as required... It is not necessary to fight, deal, and "play" the game to advance at all.
If youre going to attempt to remove 1 flaw from the system, its about time you went and completely redesigned it so that the players who actualy play, have skills, spend REAL effort and realy give a damn about the game benefit from the blood and sweat they put into it.
If youre going to take from us CCP, Return to us something, Make it fair, WE are the people who support you, WE are the reason you made this freakin game in the first place.
I love this game the way it is, even after all the stupid things you have done here and there in the name of "ballance" and "fairness" and joy in swinging the NERF BAT", But when it gets to the point that youre going to charge me a fortune so that i can train a rank 12 skill to the point that i can do something new and tell me at the same time that theres nothing i can do to help the process... Youre realy pushing your luck...
Pushing it uphill
Dont **** us off especialy when you have a competitor comming just around the corner.
Fear leads to unresponsiveness, unresponsiveness leads to suffering, suffering leads to podding, podding leads to anger
lesson 1: don't be afraid to die, or you will |
Joskken Inx
PURE Legion Pure.
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Posted - 2008.10.14 16:06:00 -
[2042]
Originally by: Vengal Seyhan
Originally by: Ivor Gunn Edited by: Ivor Gunn on 14/10/2008 00:04:27 Edited by: Ivor Gunn on 14/10/2008 00:01:11
Quote: Ghost Training was an unintended feature
No it wasn't.
Quote: Skills continue training even if you are logged off or if your account is inactive
You contradict your own knowledge base. Pure hypocrisy.
Oh, that's pretty priceless :D Soon to be ret-conned, I predict.
FYI, CCP on the subject of subscriptions: I recently signed up a second account on the Power of 2 program, planning to stick to a tightly focussed six month trainging program, for Interceptors and Amarr ships that my main doesn't fly. I was always then going to be folding this second character back into my main account thereafter.
Your game is good, but not that good.
Considering that I have a set expiry time on my subscription, and no desire to run two acounts in the long run - an in game and out of game (email) subscription expiry reminder would be highly handy, so that I don't get stung with a suddenly inactive account.
PS - Is it coincidence that the Power Of 2 offer just finished? I take it your marketting people were expecting a flurry of sign-ups arising out of this, and didn't want to offer these people the discount package.
Yeah I can't help but notice that too. I finally get a Power of Two account, and then this.
I don't know about the sycophants and apologists, and why they feel the need to say stupid shit like "mmm tears" and "go back to wow". I don't like being treated like shit, lied to about this game somehow having a "bug" that is so goddamn gamebreaking it needed to be fixed in hours, and ignoring real problems like your hardware, the 90 sec COSMOS respawning trillionaires, desynchs...yeah, whatever.
It's all about the bottom line now, and I guess CCP really is no different than any other game/business. It was fun, I'm tired of MMO's plain and simple. I'm done.
Oh and you'd better un**** the account page. That is not a request. ------------------------------------------------ "Skills continue training even if you are logged off or if your account is inactive (in the second scenario you can't change skill training, though). |
Seth Ruin
Minmatar Ominous Corp Ethereal Dawn
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Posted - 2008.10.14 16:07:00 -
[2043]
Originally by: Callib Gor'Karrithe But... oh, look at that. Ghost training is gone. Gee, would this not be a bit of foreshadowing to queued training?
No. It wouldn't.
CCP has continuously stated that they will not be adding queued training. And CCP never goes back on their wor-- oh nevermind >.>
On a more serious note, they have yet to announce the "eventuality" of such queued training to satiate the masses. I would assume if there were an appropriate time to mention they're working on it, it would be in conjunction with this change.
They, however, have not.
-- (CCP Inconsistency)
Why cover it up? We KNOW it's all just about money |
James Marshalll
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.10.14 16:07:00 -
[2044]
Originally by: Catherine Frasier
Originally by: Marius Duvall The issue isn't that the players guide isn't a promotion (which is arguable, really) but that a supposed "bug" was listed as an intended effect therein.
No, it never was listed as an intended effect, ever, anywhere. The guide merely described the way things were. All the emorage in the world can't change documentation into proof of intent.
Of course, since this has been pointed out about seven thousand times and ignored about seven thousand times, I don't expect pointing it out again will have any effect on you "But it was in the guide!!!!11one!!" folks.
just as seven thousand times you have been told, COMPANIES DO NOT DOCUMENT BUGS IN PLAYER GUIDES SO THEY WILL USE IT UNLESS IT WAS AN INTENDED FEATURE THAT THEY WANTED YOU TO TAKE ADVANTAGE OF.
Give me a break. Think about it, I mean I know your a GM Alt, but really think about it....
If I am trying to market an MMO the LAST frigging thing I want to do is tell my customers in the new user guide
"HEY! Btw here is a bug and how you can take advantage of it!"
But of course you choose to ignore that.
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Seth Ruin
Minmatar Ominous Corp Ethereal Dawn
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Posted - 2008.10.14 16:09:00 -
[2045]
Originally by: James Marshalll
Originally by: Catherine Frasier
Originally by: Marius Duvall The issue isn't that the players guide isn't a promotion (which is arguable, really) but that a supposed "bug" was listed as an intended effect therein.
No, it never was listed as an intended effect, ever, anywhere. The guide merely described the way things were. All the emorage in the world can't change documentation into proof of intent.
Of course, since this has been pointed out about seven thousand times and ignored about seven thousand times, I don't expect pointing it out again will have any effect on you "But it was in the guide!!!!11one!!" folks.
just as seven thousand times you have been told, COMPANIES DO NOT DOCUMENT BUGS IN PLAYER GUIDES SO THEY WILL USE IT UNLESS IT WAS AN INTENDED FEATURE THAT THEY WANTED YOU TO TAKE ADVANTAGE OF.
Give me a break. Think about it, I mean I know your a GM Alt, but really think about it....
If I am trying to market an MMO the LAST frigging thing I want to do is tell my customers in the new user guide
"HEY! Btw here is a bug and how you can take advantage of it!"
But of course you choose to ignore that.
Hmm... We should tell CCP to add information about how to successfully perform a logoffski to the player guide, too It is certainly not an "intended feature," but it is how the system works right now.
-- (CCP Inconsistency)
Why cover it up? We KNOW it's all just about money |
Lucina Enyo
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Posted - 2008.10.14 16:10:00 -
[2046]
This is a product of 60 day GTCs. A simpler solution would be to scrap them and introduce only 100 day GTCs. It would have caused less upset with the customer base I am sure.
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Cyberman Mastermind
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Posted - 2008.10.14 16:10:00 -
[2047]
So, the mentioning of ghost training in the user guide was an advertisment, hence it's an intended feature and shouldn't be taken away.
Then I guess this here, which is even more prominently featured, is another intended feature and should never be changed, right?
Quote:
when using Jump Clones, do NOT jump from the station where you already have a clone with implants. This is because you would leave your former body there and, as you can only have one clone per station, your oldest clone would be deleted with all its implants.
I'd say it's either a bug or lazy programming - but it's in the user guide, so it must be a feature, right? |
Catherine Frasier
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Posted - 2008.10.14 16:11:00 -
[2048]
Originally by: Marius Duvall If something is listed in the user manual saying "Hey, you can do this," it's an intended effect.
That's complete nonsense. The way training is handled (simulating constant training by updating when you log in) didn't take into account the possibility that for some of the time between log-ins your account might have been "inactive". Training and billing were on different pages, as it were.
Oops!
It was unintended and no amount of documentation can ever change that fact. Nothing short of time travel can even make it an intentional decision. If you want to argue that they accepted the way it was then sure, I agree, they did. And now they don't.
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Vietone
Gallente Inherently Risky Schemes
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Posted - 2008.10.14 16:11:00 -
[2049]
Originally by: Mohenna Edited by: Mohenna on 14/10/2008 15:46:33 Teh internet is broken!!11 Nobody used the wayback machine yet. I have to fix it. See the past versions of the guide in their full truth:
http://web.archive.org/web/20080212211449/http://www.eve-online.com/guide/en/g615.asp http://web.archive.org/web/20080122061230/http://www.eve-online.com/guide/en/g615.asp http://web.archive.org/web/20071229095941/http://www.eve-online.com/guide/en/g615.asp http://web.archive.org/web/20071206164722/http://www.eve-online.com/guide/en/g615.asp
...That said... I support the change. PAY YOU CHEAPSKATES!! (yeah, their PR skill sux, CCP truly are players: they minimized their charisma :D)
It doesnt matter if it was in the player guide or not. They never intended it to be an option, they only stated how it worked. IF they did intend the game to function like that, it would have been in many more places than just the player guide.
I bet over half the eve community didnt even know you could ghost train. Cause I never heard of it and neither have the majority of people I know in the game. Therefore, I look at it like this, fewer people, less lag.
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Ra Vhim
Black Bag Ops
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Posted - 2008.10.14 16:13:00 -
[2050]
Hrm. I am not a fan of joining whine threads, but this merit an exception.
First of all: When people gets more they are satisfied. When people gets less they are dissatisfied.
This is a good rule about how the world often works. No matter if a change CCP do is needed or not, the crowd that feel they get less will be dissatisfied. However, I have 3 accounts and have never “Ghost Trained”, not even when I take a break for a couple of month like I am doing at the moment. Still, this change leaves a bad taste in my mouth.
Most importantly regarding this change, CCP looks like lying, greedy bastards by giving us players two blogs that as far as I can see is some odd twisted attempt to fast-talk their way out of some kind of truth we are not supposed to know about. Perhaps it only is an unusual clumsy attempt to give us the news in a smooth way. Either way, I (and I suspect most others) don’t like being lied to nor be treated like a moron. A poster a dozen pages back or so summed it up nicely: Shame on you, CCP.
To give 2 days warning is simply put idiotic. As I view it, the most likely reason for this is that CCP estimated a forum threadnaught but since they already decided to go through with this, players’ opinions be damned, they waited with making the announcement until right before the patch. Beside that it gives the impression of arrogance from CCP (and/or possibly inaptitude) it kind of makes me wonder exactly what is important to CCP and the world of Eve. If it isn’t the players’ opinions, what is it?
I can only speak for myself, but I sure will continue to pay for my 3 accounts even if I am taking a break at the moment. Though this change did see to it that I don’t get more accounts, which I was pondering. However, if I in the future get so burned out that I decide to take a long Eve break and seriously play some other game instead, then it is a safe bet that I will cancel my Eve accounts and never look back. Even if Eve is a fantastic game and I trust that CCP really want to improve it and make it last, there are other games out there that are quite fun. It isn’t like it is Eve or nothing, it is Eve or something else.
To sum it up, the thing that ****es me off is the 2 blogs that shows what kind of relationship CCP have (or want to have) with the players. It sure isn’t based on respect or honesty.
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SkwisgaarSkwigelf
C.R.M Productions
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Posted - 2008.10.14 16:13:00 -
[2051]
Originally by: Vietone
Originally by: Mohenna Edited by: Mohenna on 14/10/2008 15:46:33 Teh internet is broken!!11 Nobody used the wayback machine yet. I have to fix it. See the past versions of the guide in their full truth:
http://web.archive.org/web/20080212211449/http://www.eve-online.com/guide/en/g615.asp http://web.archive.org/web/20080122061230/http://www.eve-online.com/guide/en/g615.asp http://web.archive.org/web/20071229095941/http://www.eve-online.com/guide/en/g615.asp http://web.archive.org/web/20071206164722/http://www.eve-online.com/guide/en/g615.asp
...That said... I support the change. PAY YOU CHEAPSKATES!! (yeah, their PR skill sux, CCP truly are players: they minimized their charisma :D)
It doesnt matter if it was in the player guide or not. They never intended it to be an option, they only stated how it worked. IF they did intend the game to function like that, it would have been in many more places than just the player guide.
I bet over half the eve community didnt even know you could ghost train. Cause I never heard of it and neither have the majority of people I know in the game. Therefore, I look at it like this, fewer people, less lag.
Your ignorance is not our problem.
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Rancid Oswald
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Posted - 2008.10.14 16:13:00 -
[2052]
"So long, farewell, Auf wiedersehen, good bye!"
To the ragequiters !
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James Marshalll
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.10.14 16:14:00 -
[2053]
Originally by: Lallante As much as I think this change is counterproductive from a revenue point of view, it does amuse me to see how many people are willing to convince THEMSELVES they have a legitimate gripe against ccps actions (eg "you said it was a feature 2 years ago" or whatever else) when the REAL and ONLY reason they are ****ed off is because it disadvantages them.....
You know what amuses me?
When a corp with a history of CCP employees cheating for them comes in here complaining about others who were using something to their advantage.
But at least CCP tried to cover it up the right way that time, they just started banning people like kugutsumen for telling on you for account sharing. /lulz. Well wait, maybe thats what they should do now so that way they don't really have to fix the gridlock problems, or database lag.. just get rid of the userbase! Brilliant!
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Suze'Rain
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.10.14 16:14:00 -
[2054]
Originally by: Total Disaster
Originally by: Virgo I'Platonicus Perhaps allow ghost training for 25 - 30% the monthly fee?
V.
how about inactive accounts train at a 50% speed (i.e. takes double as long)
now this I would support wholeheartedly, as a solution.
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Pteranodon
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Posted - 2008.10.14 16:15:00 -
[2055]
I was thinking about the economic situation & why the world is in such an economic mess.
It is because everybody is screwing everybody into the ground on price. We all want something for nothing & ghost training was the best form of this.
I then realised that if you have something for nothing then other aspects of economy suffer & I guess CCP got a directive to tighten its belt & get more revenue coming in.
It was good whilst it lasted & I personaly don't expect something for nothing & have never ghost trained-not worth the effort.
So, we can whinge & whine & I sit on the fench seeing both sides & I do feel sorry for the person who may be financially strained but at the end of the day it is only a game & you wont die if you cant play. I suppose everybodies concern is what happens to a dormant character-does it get deleted within 6 months of a none active subscription or what. I can see a lot of very high skilled characters going down the pan.
So I say, get used to it because the day of the free lunch is over. We can't keep on having something for nothing.
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Sailon
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Posted - 2008.10.14 16:15:00 -
[2056]
Originally by: Vietone
It doesnt matter if it was in the player guide or not. They never intended it to be an option, they only stated how it worked. IF they did intend the game to function like that, it would have been in many more places than just the player guide.
I bet over half the eve community didnt even know you could ghost train. Cause I never heard of it and neither have the majority of people I know in the game. Therefore, I look at it like this, fewer people, less lag.
open your damn eyes less people = less pvp because lesser people
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Innaara
Gallente Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2008.10.14 16:15:00 -
[2057]
Don't you guys get it by now?
CCP KNOWS you will renew your alts anyway. How else is this game playable?
You can nag al you want. I have core principles so 2 out of my 4 accounts wil go into deep hibernation. I've had it with this company that lies to it's customers (I don't care about those 11 euro's a month). They don't give a rats ass, I know, but if I was in Iceland for Fanfest they would have a a bunch of tomatoes thrown at them.
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D4RT N3RDiUS
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Posted - 2008.10.14 16:15:00 -
[2058]
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=896834&page=2
check this outtttttttttt!!
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C4w3
Minmatar Corp 1 Allstars
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Posted - 2008.10.14 16:15:00 -
[2059]
I wonder if there is something that CCP hf aint telling us? did the chrash hit you harder then you admit and you had alot invested in IRL ISK / Icelandic banks, resulting in a epic economic cricis?
And i will cancel all my extra accounts.
ill keep C4 for old times sake payed by isk.
Ssrly why dont you just tie the playerbase to a tree and Aess **** em? ANGRY INTERNET GAMING MOBS IRL are bad MKAY!
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Dire Radiant
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Posted - 2008.10.14 16:18:00 -
[2060]
This is only acceptable if you put into place before the change a skill queue.
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Gedhay
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Posted - 2008.10.14 16:18:00 -
[2061]
CCP anounce that a feature like training while ur subscription it's canceled is a "bug" and now it will be "solved". ok, now, a lot of people are arguing if they are wright or wrong. First of all, they are the guys with the power, so we must opose them . Second, we must take a long breath and see if they are wright. So, let's see what they have to say.
"Ghost Training was an unintended feature where unpaid accounts of EVE Online were able to continue training skills. While this allowed players to run multiple characters on a shoestring budget, in all effect, this was a bug."
But till 10th of october, there was the "power of 2" offer!!! So they are not happy with some characters training with "shoestring budget"??? CCP it's aware of people using more than one account so, why don't give them something back like "second account - half of price"? FOREVER... No, that's impossible, cause it will result in an increased number of new char... or in an decrease of CCP gainings. But this not what they said. They said: "But recently we have seen a surge in this behavior in a way that we were essentially supporting and maintaining a large number of customers that weren't paying us regular subscriptions. That's not fair towards CCP as a service provider and it's not fair towards other players that pay a subscription but don't make use of this bug." So, it's not fair to the CCP as a service provider. But when CCP make a "roll back" in the middle of a fight it's fair to the "paying customers"? Or when the deploiment of an patch takes longer then announced? or when u want to enter "Jita" and wait half for hour? But it isn't fair not only to CCP, but "towards other players that pay a subscription but don't make use of this bug". But they are aware of this "bug" and they chose NOT TO make use of this momentarely. That doesn't meant that in the feature they will not make use of it.
Anyway.... We can look at this from a variety of angles, but it all comes down to:
1.There was a way to progress a character in EVE without an active subscription 2.CCP noticed a surge in the trend and decided to fix the leak 3.Players now have to pay a subscription for characters to have them progress
I'm curious, when CCP noticed "a surge in the trend" and how quicly they act in order to "fix the bug"? And if they are so eager to be fair to us, paying customers, how long it will take to "fix the bug" of 3 characters/account and only one training? Or the "bug" of "Skill in queque", to prevent active subscriptions from losing SP because the player is not able to get to a therminal (with EVE on it)? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Many said, no pay, no play, but that was true, till now! because if u had ur subscription canceled, u were not able to play. Now u have "no pay, no train"! Many said that this will prevent "character farming", but if u had the possibility to train on 3 accounts(one subscription), u will not be tempted to do that. And there are many things to say but there are no characters left.
And many said to look from the CCP's point of view but....I'M NOT CCP! NOR ARE YOU!!! THEY ARE SEEING THEYR INTEREST SO, WE SHOULD DO THE SAME!!! Somewere in the middle it's a way to understand each other and the CCP, "as a service provider" should notice the needs of their costumers and not enforce some "rules" on them.
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VLAD DRACU
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Posted - 2008.10.14 16:20:00 -
[2062]
Originally by: Ra Vhim Most importantly regarding this change, CCP looks like lying, greedy bastards by giving us players two blogs that as far as I can see is some odd twisted attempt to fast-talk their way out of some kind of truth we are not supposed to know about. Perhaps it only is an unusual clumsy attempt to give us the news in a smooth way. Either way, I (and I suspect most others) donÆt like being lied to nor be treated like a moron. A poster a dozen pages back or so summed it up nicely: Shame on you, CCP.
To sum it up, the thing that ****es me off is the 2 blogs that shows what kind of relationship CCP have (or want to have) with the players. It sure isnÆt based on respect or honesty.
the man spoke!
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Catherine Frasier
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Posted - 2008.10.14 16:21:00 -
[2063]
Originally by: Seth Ruin So here you're going to tell me neither you nor your main will ever complain about any game change ever, correct? Because after all, nothing is really an "intended feature."
Completely incorrect. First: Some things are clearly intended, some are not, for many there's just no way to know.
Second: That doesn't matter to me at all. I complain about (or applaud) the way things are. I don't give a rat's posterior whether they meant to do it or whether it just happened.
The only people I see claiming intent are the ones who want to take their selfish whinge about this decision and try to pretend it's some great moral crusade for honesty instead of just whining about their metagaming free lunch being closed down.
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TomHanx
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Posted - 2008.10.14 16:21:00 -
[2064]
To be honest I find it quite ridiculous that people have the audacity to complain about having to actually pay for a game (OHMAHAGAWD I NO RITE!?!). I didn't even know what this "ghost training" was until I was pointed here by people on the GTC forum. So, you can't exploit a game anymore. Oh no, boo hoo! It's very entertaining to see people cry about not being able to ghost train, and then say things like "-3 accounts for CCP!". You barely paid for the game to begin with, exploiting it so you could train a character and not pay. You act like it's a bad thing if cheapskate morons like that don't play.
Seriously, this is funny. I'm just going to keep reading the crying and eat some popcorn.
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Kelly Cleiniv
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Posted - 2008.10.14 16:21:00 -
[2065]
Edited by: Kelly Cleiniv on 14/10/2008 16:21:43 Wooohoo !! i¦m nr 2017 in the biggest whine thread ever
nooo 2020!!
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Cosy Ceaon
Gallente Aliastra
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Posted - 2008.10.14 16:23:00 -
[2066]
Originally by: CowsCANBark http://www.ccp.is/press/investors.asp
Don't like this change? Place a call and complain to the board of directors:
Vilhjßlmur ¦orsteinsson - Tel: +354 551 7102 (Iceland)
Birgir Mßr Ragnarsson - Tel: +44 207 647 1543 (United Kingdom)
David P. Fialkow - Tel: +1 617 234 7007 (USA)
Sigur=ur +lafsson - Tel: +354 414 6000 (Iceland)
Reynir Har=arson - Tel: +354 540 9100 (Iceland)
Isaac Kato - Tel: +1 617 234 7007 (USA)
Navigator if you don't want us to post personal information take it off your website, this is the same thing as saying, here send an email to us and we'll help you out. These guys are the ones who decide how your company runs so we have all the right to contact them about how us, the consumer, would like to see it work.
on that waebpage on PDF say kaupthing bank and kaupthing bank just failed
is a bug is a bug a buuuuuuuuuuuuug |
IR Scoutar
Caldari State War Academy
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Posted - 2008.10.14 16:23:00 -
[2067]
Originally by: Catherine Frasier I wouldn't expect such a list, period, why would you? Why would CCP (or anyone) run through each and every aspect of the game and specify; "Meant to do that", "Just got lucky", and "Ooops"?
i dont know about you but id expect the creater of the game to know about their game if somethings an oopsie it needs to be fixed if something has gone into your explenation of the game declaring it as oopsie 5 years later is a bit of a stretch dont you think
and certainly after 5 years id expect the creaters of a game to know about their game and not go ummm yeah i know we sort of sayd it was a feature but actualy it never ment to be like that
besides if i was interested in a game and would like to know a bit more about the workings you know id try it and perhaps even read bit of the manual in this case called player guide in this case id take that and say hmm yes this is how this game is i see in this particular case that aspec hasnt changed in 5 years now declaring this as an unwanted BUG is a bit far fetched if you already declared once that this is a game feature
now if this "bug" or "Unintended feature" was left out of the game guide alltogether you could indeed call it that but the fact remains that after 5 years coming and saying "ooops bug" is a bit well.... you know ...
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Borg Zorg
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Posted - 2008.10.14 16:24:00 -
[2068]
Originally by: TomHanx To be honest I find it quite ridiculous that people have the audacity to complain about having to actually pay for a game (OHMAHAGAWD I NO RITE!?!). I didn't even know what this "ghost training" was until I was pointed here by people on the GTC forum. So, you can't exploit a game anymore. Oh no, boo hoo! It's very entertaining to see people cry about not being able to ghost train, and then say things like "-3 accounts for CCP!". You barely paid for the game to begin with, exploiting it so you could train a character and not pay. You act like it's a bad thing if cheapskate morons like that don't play.
Seriously, this is funny. I'm just going to keep reading the crying and eat some popcorn.
If u r f...ing ignorant and dont know nothing abouth game you are plaing that is your problem.Read forums more mo..on and read player guid so u will be more informed player ,that actuali knows what is hapening in game and not just land from nowhere cose someone told u this was hapening and than expres your sheat statments based on nothing... Nooob
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St Claus
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Posted - 2008.10.14 16:25:00 -
[2069]
Originally by: Catherine Frasier
Originally by: Marius Duvall If something is listed in the user manual saying "Hey, you can do this," it's an intended effect.
That's complete nonsense. The way training is handled (simulating constant training by updating when you log in) didn't take into account the possibility that for some of the time between log-ins your account might have been "inactive". Training and billing were on different pages, as it were.
Oops!
It was unintended and no amount of documentation can ever change that fact. Nothing short of time travel can even make it an intentional decision. If you want to argue that they accepted the way it was then sure, I agree, they did. And now they don't.
http://go-dl3.eve-files.com/media/0810/isabug4.jpg
That "bug" was removed from Serenity years/moths ago, why not from Tranquility if it is a bug and not a feature?
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Tobias Lee
UK Corp Mostly Harmless
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Posted - 2008.10.14 16:25:00 -
[2070]
I don't think its about a free lunch its more about having a 2nd account and being able to train skills up cheaply mainly capital skills.
The macro miners wont be affected they can mine happily with 4 or 5 accounts on one pc.
In essence there's going to be a large amount of 2nd 3rd 4th accounts dedicated specialist toons that wont be renewed simply because of the cost.
How does this affect the game?
1. In the long time CCP loses money from accounts not being reactivated not sure how this will affect game development.
2. It might benefit corps since it reduces the number of alts hopefully a good thing.
3. Cash rich alliances with rich players in real life think of your BOB alliance here for example will gain a huge advantage because they can afford to pay for dozens of alt accounts so mimicking real life, EVE becomes a game for the rich.
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Larg Kellein
Caldari Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
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Posted - 2008.10.14 16:26:00 -
[2071]
Hmmm, several sides to this, in my opinion:
1) You really can't in any degree of good faith expect to receive a service you aren't paying for. Score one for CCP.
2) CCP have in the past replied to "so long, EVE, real life is forcing a break on me" post with words to the effect of "don't forget to set a long skill, see you when you can come back", thus encouraging ghost training. It has also been in the player guide, an official CCP documentation of game features, not bugs. It has also been in the game since the beginning, and they have certainly had the technology to fix it, as the Chinese server does not ghost train.
3) Using "fairness" and "energy" to describe skill changing in this way: "This practice upsets the balance of the game, and capsuleers who actively put their time and energy into working on their characters will no longer be unfairly affected by those few who have not." Are you kidding me? Time and effort to click "train skill". And those actively playing gain standings and isk, those ghost training do not. There just isn't an ingame advantage, only a RL wallet one, to ghost training. Score three against CCP.
4) By removing incentives to reactivate accounts that had been ghost training, it's likely CCP will see total subscription income drop as people do not renew accounts, possibly after paying a one time transfer fee to move a character off the account before canceling it. I really think someone dropped the ball on the cost/benefit analysis here. This particularly applies to people who have taken a break from the game but are now less tempted to return to play with that shiny new toy that boring long skill enabled.
5) This is the big one for me: CCP outright lied to their customers with the claim that it is based on fairness, and not the simple truth that they are a business and want people to pay for their product. And this is why I'm going to cancel one of my accounts so far. And no, it's not ghost training. The only time it ever did was before I even activated it. I trained Gallente Cruiser V right out of trial that way. That, in fact, is the only time any of my 3 accounts have ever ghost trained.
So, executive summary version: Demanding payment for your product or service is fair. Don't lie about it, though.
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Marius Duvall
Amarr Merch Industrial GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.10.14 16:26:00 -
[2072]
Originally by: Dire Radiant This is only acceptable if you put into place before the change a skill queue.
Or allow more than one character on an account to train skills. ---
Originally by: "Reticenti" Oh, one note to Scius, you have made Goons and BoB agree on something. Good job.
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IR Scoutar
Caldari State War Academy
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Posted - 2008.10.14 16:26:00 -
[2073]
Originally by: Kelly Cleiniv Edited by: Kelly Cleiniv on 14/10/2008 16:21:43 Wooohoo !! i¦m nr 2017 in the biggest whine thread ever
nooo 2020!!
lies! its not the biggest yet (even if you count the 49 pages of the locked one) but it will be ooh it will be
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Suze'Rain
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.10.14 16:26:00 -
[2074]
Originally by: Innaara Don't you guys get it by now?
CCP KNOWS you will renew your alts anyway. How else is this game playable?
4.5 years, 1 account, 1 main, 1 alt on that account used when the main gets boring. you do not "need" alt accounts, at all.
I've ghost trained twice: commandships 4-5 when I was struggling with cashflow, and decided to take a break. Frigate 5, when the 3-day trial ended (yes, 3 days), and I did'nt even realise what ghost-training was.
Still object to this as it's been dropped on players with such short notice, and no discussions.
IMO part of the best incentive of eve is, if you quit, you know your character will be better when you get drawn back in - an incentive removed with this.
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Tara Yang
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Posted - 2008.10.14 16:28:00 -
[2075]
Originally by: St Claus
http://go-dl3.eve-files.com/media/0810/isabug4.jpg
That "bug" was removed from Serenity years/moths ago, why not from Tranquility if it is a bug and not a feature?
OMG that is just priceless. Even more epic fail
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Psyfr
Minmatar Sounds Of Violence Pupule 'Ohana
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Posted - 2008.10.14 16:29:00 -
[2076]
ghost training is not free. generally speaking a person will train a rank V (averaging around 30 days) and then resub for 30 (ohshit $$$ for ccp!), then go inactive again with a new V training away. wtf is the point of ghost training if youre not going to resub (ohshit moar $$$!) to use the ****ing character?
jumping on the ccpfailboat wagon here: ccp, you make alot of stupid choices and are shooting yourself in the foot consistently. at a time where you really need good relations with the player base (lolnanonerf), you go ahead and effectively nerf any way that a player can have a nice break from the game, cycledown and relax; then come back to something shiny and new.
lately your dev blogs have been looking up with regards to the lag fixes, which has been great. you earned points with the entire community for that one. but now its just like youve taken those lag spikes away, then used it to stab us in our ghost-training backbone.
you have to understand, eve can become like a job or chore. its evident from some of the speed changes you dont actually play the game, but ill try to help you out here. we need to be able to take a break, in order to be able to come back. if we burn out, so does our wallet.
have fun with that btw.
Your signature is too large. Please resize it to a maximum of 400 x 120 with the file size not exceeding 24000 bytes. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] - Mitnal |
Kamikaze Calloway
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Posted - 2008.10.14 16:29:00 -
[2077]
Originally by: Borg Zorg
Originally by: TomHanx
Seriously, this is funny. I'm just going to keep reading the crying and eat some popcorn.
If u r f...ing ignorant and dont know nothing abouth game you are plaing that is your problem.Read forums more mo..on and read player guid so u will be more informed player ,that actuali knows what is hapening in game and not just land from nowhere cose someone told u this was hapening and than expres your sheat statments based on nothing... Nooob
TomHanx was right! This is funny! Pass the popcorn. And it looks like someone should spend less time reading the "guid" and more time reading the dictionary (check out irony, first)!
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TomHanx
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Posted - 2008.10.14 16:29:00 -
[2078]
Originally by: Borg Zorg
Originally by: TomHanx To be honest I find it quite ridiculous that people have the audacity to complain about having to actually pay for a game (OHMAHAGAWD I NO RITE!?!). I didn't even know what this "ghost training" was until I was pointed here by people on the GTC forum. So, you can't exploit a game anymore. Oh no, boo hoo! It's very entertaining to see people cry about not being able to ghost train, and then say things like "-3 accounts for CCP!". You barely paid for the game to begin with, exploiting it so you could train a character and not pay. You act like it's a bad thing if cheapskate morons like that don't play.
Seriously, this is funny. I'm just going to keep reading the crying and eat some popcorn.
If u r f...ing ignorant and dont know nothing abouth game you are plaing that is your problem.Read forums more mo..on and read player guid so u will be more informed player ,that actuali knows what is hapening in game and not just land from nowhere cose someone told u this was hapening and than expres your sheat statments based on nothing... Nooob
Lol please learn to type better and come back to me with a coherent response.
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Borg Zorg
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Posted - 2008.10.14 16:30:00 -
[2079]
The Secure section of the EVE website is undergoing essential maintenance presently and it is currently unreachable. The issue concerns a problem with the server at our billing service provider and we are in contact with them to solve the issue and get an estimation on when we will be back up. We apologize for any inconvenience this may cause and we hope to have the secure section back up as soon as possible.
Update: We are working with our billing services partners to address this issue which is being caused by server issues on their end of the pipe and thereby beyond our control. They have assured us that they are doing all they can to get things working properly. We'll keep checking back with them and update you as information becomes available.
Whata an coincidenc.We canot aces to our acount,right on. ppl did take seriusly you decision ccp and r canceling acounts.......
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Larg Kellein
Caldari Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
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Posted - 2008.10.14 16:30:00 -
[2080]
Oooh, nice touch... Just went to cancel an account and got this: "The EVE-online website is undergoing maintenance. We are sorry for any inconvenience caused."
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Junkie Beverage
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.10.14 16:31:00 -
[2081]
unacceptable
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Catherine Frasier
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Posted - 2008.10.14 16:32:00 -
[2082]
Originally by: IR Scoutar
Originally by: Catherine Frasier I wouldn't expect such a list, period, why would you? Why would CCP (or anyone) run through each and every aspect of the game and specify; "Meant to do that", "Just got lucky", and "Ooops"?
i dont know about you but id expect the creater of the game to know about their game if somethings an oopsie it needs to be fixed if something has gone into your explenation of the game declaring it as oopsie 5 years later is a bit of a stretch dont you think
Not at all. In fact, some "oopsies" might be with us forever. Unintended doesn't mean bad, or good. It just means unintended. Like jet-can mining, or carrier-freighting. CCP knows (or finds out about) such things. Sometimes they ignore them, sometimes they embrace them, sometimes they let it ride for a while and see how it goes. In this case (and others) they let it ride until it becomes problematic and then fix it.
This is nothing new. Try storing a fully loaded indy in your carrier. You could, now you can't. It was unintended, discovered, allowed and then fixed. Just like this.
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Avita Ae
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Posted - 2008.10.14 16:32:00 -
[2083]
I think fixing this so called "Bug" may actually make me quit playing this game. I feel allready as if I am just paying for the game to give me skillpoints. So that someday I will have a character worth playing. Some skills take ridiculously long times to train, and being able to train while inactive was one relief from it. This is obviously a way to just try to squeeze more money out of the player base.
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Illectroculus Defined
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Posted - 2008.10.14 16:32:00 -
[2084]
Truth is, the bug was overlooked and allowed until too many people started abusing it - and it's clear from the length of this thread that a lot of people were abusing it.
So if all of you hadn't been so dedicated to gaming the system then it would've still been around, each and everyone who is complaining in this thread contributed to the nerf.
Myself, I never did it, and I won't miss it.
In fact I find it quite amusing to read all these sob stories here from people who've apparently blaming their lapses in subscription on stock crashes and bank closures. If this really were the case then the last thing you'd be worried about would be getting level 5 in Caldari Battleship.
Now, please get back to coming up with creative ways to kill the macro miners.
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Meat Missle
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
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Posted - 2008.10.14 16:33:00 -
[2085]
If there is an avalanch happening in your database, the solution is not to cut off features of the game, the solution is to create a more robust system to handle the new load.
What If you struck a middleground. You are obviously kicking a bees nest by doing this ( im already screwed ). What if you offered some sort of deal to people like us who afk train 1 accounts skills to 5? Something like an added service you can purchase under account settings that allows for chars to afk train skills. Im sure the skills are all level 5 rank 6 or more anyways. People will gradly pay for an extra service.
THat way, you get your dues, we get our level 5's and not everyone will pay it so the database load is much less. Everyones a winner. ----------------------------- - no, you cant have my high res image. |
Crewman Jenkins
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Posted - 2008.10.14 16:34:00 -
[2086]
Its their company, they can do whatever they want. If you feel the product is no longer worth your money, don't subscribe to it.
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Daelin Blackleaf
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Posted - 2008.10.14 16:35:00 -
[2087]
Still no response to people asking why CCP felt it necessary to sugarcoat the truth, that this is a financial decision, with the falsehood, this is a bug.
Even from an immoral point of view I can't see the sense in it. I can see no reason to lie as an aside when your telling the truth about the heart of the matter to a discerning audience who are quite capable of seeing straight through this kind of thing.
This is terrible PR, and I worry that CCP may just decide to cancel this change to placate the masses while never providing an explanation as to why they felt the need to so blatantly misrepresent the facts.
Also: What made Torfi Frans Olafsson think for a second that we wouldn't notice this immediately? Does he really think, having been with the company since before launch, that the community is that stupid.
The whole thing is really quite depressing because I've always been a huge fan of CCP itself and things like this are eroding my trust in what I still consider to be the best MMO company out there.
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BIind
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Posted - 2008.10.14 16:36:00 -
[2088]
Originally by: Suze'Rain 4.5 years, 1 account, 1 main, 1 alt on that account used when the main gets boring. you do not "need" alt accounts, at all.
I can't even begin to imagine how people would go about building a cyno network with just mains.
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Melissa Dawn
Caldari Eve University Ivy League
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Posted - 2008.10.14 16:37:00 -
[2089]
So I have to pay for two months of game time in order to train a skill that takes 45 days? My main character has been active for more then a year, and the things I have to train are long skills.
So much for making my second account primary. I'll keep my money and stay on one character from now on. Now, if I decide to train a long skill, thats 45 days of no fun for me because I can't grow. If I want to have a little fun and explore the game a little more, I have to pay for two months game time on one account, and keep the other account active. It's loose-loose for me.
I thought it was bad that I couldn't train on two characters and now the rope has been tightened even more. If this is the way it's going to be, then I think I should be allowed to train more then one character on one account at the same time.
After all, fair is fair.
Melissa Dawn Eve University
The important thing is to be able to sacrifice what we are for what we could become
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Seth Ruin
Minmatar Ominous Corp Ethereal Dawn
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Posted - 2008.10.14 16:38:00 -
[2090]
Originally by: Catherine Frasier
Originally by: Seth Ruin So here you're going to tell me neither you nor your main will ever complain about any game change ever, correct? Because after all, nothing is really an "intended feature."
Completely incorrect. First: Some things are clearly intended, some are not, for many there's just no way to know.
Second: That doesn't matter to me at all. I complain about (or applaud) the way things are. I don't give a rat's posterior whether they meant to do it or whether it just happened.
The only people I see claiming intent are the ones who want to take their selfish whinge about this decision and try to pretend it's some great moral crusade for honesty instead of just whining about their metagaming free lunch being closed down.
For the record, the honesty refers mostly to CCP's inability to choose a "reason" for doing this, but I like arguing the minutia anyway...
And as I said on one of the first dozen pages, this doesn't really affect me personally: I pay, I play. I pay for a year's subscription in advance because of the massive discount. I can afford my account and my alt. There are many who can't, however. So me complaining about CCP's actions here have nothing to do with "metagaming free lunch being closed down."
I understand your viewpoint. I honestly do. However, it is simply not standard practice for a company to openly document something that is an unintended affect. Documentation takes extra time, which is why you'll see many things in game that are not documented. The things that do make it to documentation have either had such a tenure in the process that they're essentially grandfathered in or they are such big features it is worth documenting.
Arguing that the documentation is not a description of intended features is simply not accurate with industry standards. Changes can be made to these features, of course, but to call what was once documented in the Player's Guide as "a bug" is dishonest at least, and shows CCP is still trying to cover up what was an entirely financial decision.
How can you define such an arbitrary line between "intended features" and "unintended features" without some kind of metric? How is it so "clear" that some features are intended? What makes them "clearly intended?" Mind you, this is not a rhetorical question.
As far as you "complain[ing] about (or applaud[ing]) the way things are," isn't that what we are doing here? We are applauding the way things currently are and complaining about the way things will be shortly. How are you any better than the other posters in this thread? You say yourself, "I don't give a rat's posterior whether they meant to do it or whether it just happened," to which I reply: neither do the posters who oppose this change. They do not care if CCP "meant to" implement this "ghost training" or if it "just happened." The fact remains, however, that this has been in game for the past half decade, and as such has become a part of the game. There are very few features for which you can say they have also been part of the game for that long.
-- (CCP Inconsistency)
Why cover it up? We KNOW it's all just about money |
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Mora Makur
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Posted - 2008.10.14 16:39:00 -
[2091]
Why is skill training while you have an unpaid subscription "fair"?
Why is it "fair" that a paying subscriber and an unpaid account both can accumulate SP?
As a paying subscriber, I appreciate this greatly, and I am shocked that "ghost training" continued for as long as it did. Players will now have to get used to Level V skills that are actually difficult to get.
While its regretful that players are deciding to leave the game, this only makes those Level V skills even more valuable. Thanks, CCP for a great game. |
Isidore Tailleur
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Posted - 2008.10.14 16:39:00 -
[2092]
This is so stupid.
I had planned to let my second account go for about 2 weeks between the monthly payments. Now I wont be renewing it at all and you will loose that income..
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ISIAM
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Posted - 2008.10.14 16:40:00 -
[2093]
Originally by: Daelin Blackleaf Still no response to people asking why CCP felt it necessary to sugarcoat the truth, that this is a financial decision, with the falsehood, this is a bug.
Even from an immoral point of view I can't see the sense in it. I can see no reason to lie as an aside when your telling the truth about the heart of the matter to a discerning audience who are quite capable of seeing straight through this kind of thing.
This is terrible PR, and I worry that CCP may just decide to cancel this change to placate the masses while never providing an explanation as to why they felt the need to so blatantly misrepresent the facts.
Also: What made Torfi Frans Olafsson think for a second that we wouldn't notice this immediately? Does he really think, having been with the company since before launch, that the community is that stupid.
The whole thing is really quite depressing because I've always been a huge fan of CCP itself and things like this are eroding my trust in what I still consider to be the best MMO company out there.
"THAT"S A FACT JACK."
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Andron Blaxcor
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Posted - 2008.10.14 16:40:00 -
[2094]
Personally, I am at uni half the year. I have used ghost training to make sure that I get something not there. I now have two choices:
1) Pay subs for a game that I cannot play for the sake of training alone. 2) Lose ground and training time, making the game less enjoyable.
Either way CCP have made my enjoyment of the game less. I guarantee I will not take option one, so CCP have just made the game worse for me. Will I return? Probably. But this brings the day that I won't a lot closer.
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Crewman Jenkins
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Posted - 2008.10.14 16:41:00 -
[2095]
Fair is fair..they say what they offer, and you can take it or leave it. Noone is forcing you to stay. Thats fair.
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NupetietVer
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Posted - 2008.10.14 16:41:00 -
[2096]
CCP has just nerfed this game to WoWness. Heck, even WoW is cheaper a month!
And PS, if anyone eve-mails during Christmas, you can have my stuff because thats when my GTC ends, heck no i'm not spending another $35 dollars for BattleShip Lvl 5.
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BIind
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Posted - 2008.10.14 16:41:00 -
[2097]
Originally by: Mora Makur Players will now have to get used to Level V skills that are actually difficult to get.
Or don't bother resubbing after taking a break. Also there's nothing difficult about getting a V skill, it's just expensive now.
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Annaphera
Minmatar Super Green Industries
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Posted - 2008.10.14 16:42:00 -
[2098]
Originally by: St Claus Edited by: St Claus on 14/10/2008 16:28:12
Originally by: Catherine Frasier
Originally by: Marius Duvall If something is listed in the user manual saying "Hey, you can do this," it's an intended effect.
That's complete nonsense. The way training is handled (simulating constant training by updating when you log in) didn't take into account the possibility that for some of the time between log-ins your account might have been "inactive". Training and billing were on different pages, as it were.
Oops!
It was unintended and no amount of documentation can ever change that fact. Nothing short of time travel can even make it an intentional decision. If you want to argue that they accepted the way it was then sure, I agree, they did. And now they don't.
http://go-dl3.eve-files.com/media/0810/isabug4.jpg
That "bug" was removed from Serenity years/moths ago, why not from Tranquility if it is a bug and not a feature?null
Better question - why was it removed from Serenity if it was a feature and not a bug?
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Kyoko Sakoda
Caldari Veto. Veto Corp
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Posted - 2008.10.14 16:42:00 -
[2099]
Big deal.
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Bloody Rabbit
Jita Miners
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Posted - 2008.10.14 16:42:00 -
[2100]
Originally by: Tobias Lee
In essence there's going to be a large amount of 2nd 3rd 4th accounts dedicated specialist toons that wont be renewed simply because of the cost.
How does this affect the game?
Sounds good to me, it means that there will be small groups that aren't fully manned with a falcon, Crow, and each player with a T2 Cruiser and or BS.
I see this as a good thing as currently there are too many specialist chars in game.
CCP, I'm happy with the change, thank you and for all the whiners...PAY for the account if you want the account.
Originally by: Shadarle I notice a lot of people who are very bad at playing the market tend to want CCP to step in and remove the competition from the market so they don't continue coming in last place.[/qu |
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Jolly Rogerer
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Posted - 2008.10.14 16:42:00 -
[2101]
Edited by: Jolly Rogerer on 14/10/2008 16:43:29
Originally by: Borg Zorg We are working with our billing services partners to address this issue which is being caused by server issues on their end of the pipe and thereby beyond our control.[/b]
Kaupthing Bank, perhaps?
Quote: Kaupthing Bank announces that the Icelandic Financial Supervisory (IFSA) has decided to take on the powers of Kaupthing Bank's shareholders' meetings. Furthermore, the board of directors has resigned. In addition, the IFSA has appointed a receivership committee to assume the powers of the board of directors with immediate effect.
Spiffy.
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Hixxy
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Posted - 2008.10.14 16:42:00 -
[2102]
Originally by: Venus Einstein
Originally by: Wet Ferret I'm silently laughing at all the morons in this thread that are applauding CCP for becoming more and more like all of the other big names that everybody absolutely despises.
Yes, good job CCP, good job.
double signed,verified,copyied......
THIS IS THE MESSAGE FOLKS; WHATS COMMING UP NEXT
the decline of MMOs
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Inanna Zuni
Minmatar The Causality Electus Matari
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Posted - 2008.10.14 16:43:00 -
[2103]
Comes home and finds the threads still going strong nearly 24 hours later ...
Originally by: Dlightfull I never payd irl money for eve, always isk, and i was able to keep 1 account active always, while 2 others were active 7-8months/year, rest of time on ghost training. The first account is the 1 i make isk on and the other 2 are pvp characters-the cahracters i have fun with. Now, with these changes, i can't keep even 2 accounts active and what's the point in keeping the money making 1 if i don't have fun on it?
Isn't this the exact reason why this needs doing? If I translate the first phrase to English ... "I never paid real money for Eve"
So why should you get something for nothing? CCP hf are a COMPANY who want to make money to pay their staff (the developers who make this game need occasional food and beer and a place to sleep other than at their desks!) and a business needs an INCOME. If you aren't giving them an income then what gives you any right to complain about them changing their mind on how their product works - which most of us PAY FOR and, indeed, a quite happy to do so as we enjoy PLAYING the game.
The way this reads is that your first character ("The first account is the 1 i make isk on") is actually just an ISK-FARMER and not a player at all! Really??
Pay to play. Do it right.
IZ
My principles
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Vietone
Gallente Inherently Risky Schemes
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Posted - 2008.10.14 16:43:00 -
[2104]
Originally by: SkwisgaarSkwigelf
Originally by: Vietone
Originally by: Mohenna Edited by: Mohenna on 14/10/2008 15:46:33 Teh internet is broken!!11 Nobody used the wayback machine yet. I have to fix it. See the past versions of the guide in their full truth:
http://web.archive.org/web/20080212211449/http://www.eve-online.com/guide/en/g615.asp http://web.archive.org/web/20080122061230/http://www.eve-online.com/guide/en/g615.asp http://web.archive.org/web/20071229095941/http://www.eve-online.com/guide/en/g615.asp http://web.archive.org/web/20071206164722/http://www.eve-online.com/guide/en/g615.asp
...That said... I support the change. PAY YOU CHEAPSKATES!! (yeah, their PR skill sux, CCP truly are players: they minimized their charisma :D)
It doesnt matter if it was in the player guide or not. They never intended it to be an option, they only stated how it worked. IF they did intend the game to function like that, it would have been in many more places than just the player guide.
I bet over half the eve community didnt even know you could ghost train. Cause I never heard of it and neither have the majority of people I know in the game. Therefore, I look at it like this, fewer people, less lag.
Your ignorance is not our problem.
You being poor is not our problem.
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CIA1
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Posted - 2008.10.14 16:43:00 -
[2105]
Originally by: Crewman Jenkins Fair is fair..they say what they offer, and you can take it or leave it. Noone is forcing you to stay. Thats fair.
F***bag
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Gorek Loc
Etherware Heavy Engineering
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Posted - 2008.10.14 16:43:00 -
[2106]
3454 flame posts within 24 hours... that must be some kind of record!
And that's only from 16.02 yesterday to 16.02 today!
Introduce multiple account discounts to reduce the amount of 'ghost-training'
1st account $14.95 per month 2nd account $14.00 per month 3rd account $13.00 per month 4th account $12.50 per month each account after the 4th account $12.00 per month. Not a huge discount, but one worth it. Same discounts for longer periods, such as 3 months, 6 months and 1 year subscription.
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Pseudo Sasaya
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Posted - 2008.10.14 16:44:00 -
[2107]
I find it amusing that people ***** and complain that CCP doesn't do anything about farmers because they are scared of loosing the customers, then turn around and say that CCP doesn't care about customers when they DO finally do something about one type of farming.
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Mora Makur
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Posted - 2008.10.14 16:44:00 -
[2108]
Originally by: Melissa Dawn So I have to pay for two months of game time in order to train a skill that takes 45 days? My main character has been active for more then a year, and the things I have to train are long skills.
So much for making my second account primary. I'll keep my money and stay on one character from now on. Now, if I decide to train a long skill, thats 45 days of no fun for me because I can't grow. If I want to have a little fun and explore the game a little more, I have to pay for two months game time on one account, and keep the other account active. It's loose-loose for me.
I thought it was bad that I couldn't train on two characters and now the rope has been tightened even more. If this is the way it's going to be, then I think I should be allowed to train more then one character on one account at the same time.
After all, fair is fair.
Well that sounds good me because that means you actually consider how difficult that skill is to obtain as it supposed to be. Maybe you'll have to evaluate if its actually worth your time now. Oh, decisions!
What might you do with the rest of your time, then? Maybe you could play the rest of the game that doesn't involve being ADD about your skills.
Yes, fair is fair. |
Gorek Loc
Etherware Heavy Engineering
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Posted - 2008.10.14 16:45:00 -
[2109]
Originally by: Crewman Jenkins Fair is fair..they say what they offer, and you can take it or leave it. Noone is forcing you to stay. Thats fair.
It's like holding candy in front of a kid, you try to explain to the kid it can't have it! I am just like that kid... [b]IT IS NOT FAIR! I WANT MY CANDY!
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SkwisgaarSkwigelf
C.R.M Productions
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Posted - 2008.10.14 16:45:00 -
[2110]
Originally by: Inanna Zuni Comes home and finds the threads still going strong nearly 24 hours later ...
Originally by: Dlightfull I never payd irl money for eve, always isk, and i was able to keep 1 account active always, while 2 others were active 7-8months/year, rest of time on ghost training. The first account is the 1 i make isk on and the other 2 are pvp characters-the cahracters i have fun with. Now, with these changes, i can't keep even 2 accounts active and what's the point in keeping the money making 1 if i don't have fun on it?
Isn't this the exact reason why this needs doing? If I translate the first phrase to English ... "I never paid real money for Eve"
So why should you get something for nothing? CCP hf are a COMPANY who want to make money to pay their staff (the developers who make this game need occasional food and beer and a place to sleep other than at their desks!) and a business needs an INCOME. If you aren't giving them an income then what gives you any right to complain about them changing their mind on how their product works - which most of us PAY FOR and, indeed, a quite happy to do so as we enjoy PLAYING the game.
The way this reads is that your first character ("The first account is the 1 i make isk on") is actually just an ISK-FARMER and not a player at all! Really??
Pay to play. Do it right.
IZ
except paying isk means SOMEONE bought the GTC to sell to you. Think it through.
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St Claus
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Posted - 2008.10.14 16:47:00 -
[2111]
Originally by: Larg Kellein Hmmm, several sides to this, in my opinion:
1) You really can't in any degree of good faith expect to receive a service you aren't paying for. Score one for CCP.
Yeah, but it has been possible for >5 years, right from the start (right?). No active account -> no training would be ok if it had been like that right from the start. Removing feature like that now just shows that CCP really doesn't give a sh*t.
Removing rights from your customers and expecting them to like it? That's probaply the reason why they are now calling it a bug, becouse no one like bugs and it is ok to remove em.
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Debbee
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Posted - 2008.10.14 16:47:00 -
[2112]
ccp this is looking no good! this is wrong... get rid of your aquarium if you need money but dont hit your customers
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Krycka
Minmatar Nightmare Holdings
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Posted - 2008.10.14 16:48:00 -
[2113]
This is a usless change, before if you got tired of the game you set a long time skill and leave, and if you come back you atleast have some new to look forward to. I mean the reason to leave may be its dull to train or real life issues, but atleast you have something to look forward to. Now you dont. Well thats it my account expires last october, and this time i dont tink i will renew it.
Med ett shysst jSrnr÷r kan man sls hela vSrlden med hSpnad!
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Elo69007
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 16:49:00 -
[2114]
RIOT...RIOT
CCP Fails
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Gedhay
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 16:49:00 -
[2115]
Originally by: Mora Makur Why is skill training while you have an unpaid subscription "fair"?
Why is it "fair" that a paying subscriber and an unpaid account both can accumulate SP?
As a paying subscriber, I appreciate this greatly, and I am shocked that "ghost training" continued for as long as it did. Players will now have to get used to Level V skills that are actually difficult to get.
While its regretful that players are deciding to leave the game, this only makes those Level V skills even more valuable. Thanks, CCP for a great game.
how it's fair that an paid account and only one char is training? how it's fair that an paid subscribtion can be in the position that the only char that can "acumulate SP", is not training anything caus ur job doesn't let u log in to change the skill?
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Tito Sajic
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 16:49:00 -
[2116]
Originally by: Annaphera
Originally by: St Claus Edited by: St Claus on 14/10/2008 16:28:12
Originally by: Catherine Frasier
Originally by: Marius Duvall If something is listed in the user manual saying "Hey, you can do this," it's an intended effect.
That's complete nonsense. The way training is handled (simulating constant training by updating when you log in) didn't take into account the possibility that for some of the time between log-ins your account might have been "inactive". Training and billing were on different pages, as it were.
Oops!
It was unintended and no amount of documentation can ever change that fact. Nothing short of time travel can even make it an intentional decision. If you want to argue that they accepted the way it was then sure, I agree, they did. And now they don't.
http://go-dl3.eve-files.com/media/0810/isabug4.jpg
That "bug" was removed from Serenity years/moths ago, why not from Tranquility if it is a bug and not a feature?null
Better question - why was it removed from Serenity if it was a feature and not a bug?
/sarcasm on Obviously it was removed from Serenity because of the Balance issues that it caused. Bwhahaha. /sarcasm off
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Regio Pecunia
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Posted - 2008.10.14 16:50:00 -
[2117]
I never used this Feature. But if this comes to Trinq. I¦ll stop paying my alt for 2 month just to hurt CCP.
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ignobil
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 16:51:00 -
[2118]
this is the born of a new era in EVE...
the question is (either you like it or not)
are you going to take part of it or not?
probably i¦m not, not for a month or so, then even if things don¦t change, probably i¦ll be back.
in that month i¦ll test another mmo¦s, in particulary the new jumpgate evolution (i¦ll never think to do something like that before this!!!!!), then i¦ll decide if coming back is really an option or not
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Erimisha
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.10.14 16:51:00 -
[2119]
Originally by: Annaphera
Originally by: St Claus Edited by: St Claus on 14/10/2008 16:28:12
Originally by: Catherine Frasier
Originally by: Marius Duvall If something is listed in the user manual saying "Hey, you can do this," it's an intended effect.
That's complete nonsense. The way training is handled (simulating constant training by updating when you log in) didn't take into account the possibility that for some of the time between log-ins your account might have been "inactive". Training and billing were on different pages, as it were.
Oops!
It was unintended and no amount of documentation can ever change that fact. Nothing short of time travel can even make it an intentional decision. If you want to argue that they accepted the way it was then sure, I agree, they did. And now they don't.
http://go-dl3.eve-files.com/media/0810/isabug4.jpg
That "bug" was removed from Serenity years/moths ago, why not from Tranquility if it is a bug and not a feature?null
Better question - why was it removed from Serenity if it was a feature and not a bug?
Better question:
If CCP knew how to fix this "bug" years ago why did they leave it in?
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Seblis Hyperion
54th Knights Templar THORN Alliance
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Posted - 2008.10.14 16:53:00 -
[2120]
lol ghost training was the only reason I came back to eve on all my accounts especially with the economy the way it is.
They are gambling that they will have more people stay signed up then people they lose that kept resigning up with ghost training. However, what they will lose is the incentive for people to come back after a month or two and will permently lose those people. I think short term they will earn more money but long term lose more.
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Snakester
Caldari Blood and Money Sev3rance
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Posted - 2008.10.14 16:54:00 -
[2121]
HAHA ... ccp have put this in to take your eyes away from the speed nerf !!!
3 accts payed for on my cc for 5 years... and i aint leaving
Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
Innaara
Gallente Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2008.10.14 16:54:00 -
[2122]
Originally by: Regio Pecunia I never used this Feature. But if this comes to Trinq. I¦ll stop paying my alt for 2 month just to hurt CCP.
2 Months? Hahahaha, like I said, CCP Knows that everyone will enable their alts again sooner or later. All the people that are blabbering around here will do like I said.
I'm looking foreward at Jumpgate. Eve's time,.. no wait.. CCCP's time has ended in that godforsaken hellhole called Iceland.
p.s. I want my money back, you thiefs!
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James Potkukelkka
E X O D U S Imperial Republic Of the North
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Posted - 2008.10.14 16:54:00 -
[2123]
This was the thing EVE had compared to other morpgs. Returning players had something to look forward to, and even if you have to be inactive for some months you were not falling behind so badly.. Not anymore :/
--
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Soldur
Slacker Industries
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Posted - 2008.10.14 16:55:00 -
[2124]
Originally by: CCP Wrangler As the recent news stated, we will disable the ability to train skills on a suspended account. Since this has caused a lot of debate we've decided to explain why we are making this change in a new Dev Blog by t0rfifrans: Why ghost training was disabled.
I can tell u the reason without reading through all of CCP's BS. Its because they are greedy and they want as much money as possible. i think its time to reload the old sig i used to have. we care more about money
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Mora Makur
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Posted - 2008.10.14 16:55:00 -
[2125]
Originally by: Daelin Blackleaf Still no response to people asking why CCP felt it necessary to sugarcoat the truth, that this is a financial decision, with the falsehood, this is a bug.
Even from an immoral point of view I can't see the sense in it. I can see no reason to lie as an aside when your telling the truth about the heart of the matter to a discerning audience who are quite capable of seeing straight through this kind of thing.
This is terrible PR, and I worry that CCP may just decide to cancel this change to placate the masses while never providing an explanation as to why they felt the need to so blatantly misrepresent the facts.
Also: What made Torfi Frans Olafsson think for a second that we wouldn't notice this immediately? Does he really think, having been with the company since before launch, that the community is that stupid.
The whole thing is really quite depressing because I've always been a huge fan of CCP itself and things like this are eroding my trust in what I still consider to be the best MMO company out there.
Why is this so definitely a 'financial decision'? I find the balance issue perfectly reasonable. People were exploiting a 'feature' in order to obtain hard to get skills. I find it very odd, that people so easily dismiss the balancing issue, and so adamantly decree that this can only be a purely 'financial decision'.
If anything, I think this was both a 'financial decision' and a balance decision. I think the feature was there to begin with as a sort of leniency for those who wouldn't constantly subscribe their accounts, but it was never meant to be utilized actively as a manner of advancing a characters skills, which people were increasing doing. That was 'unfair' to people who actually paid, and I appreciate it. It became a financial decision where the overhead of maintaining offline skilling became significant.
I appreciate the initial leniency, but people exploited a nice feature, and now its gone. The exploiters have only themselves to blame for this. I'm sorry to those who can't afford to subscribe constantly, but at least your inactive accounts will still be there should you decide to come back. Maybe those with multiple accounts will reduce to one, and I think that provides for a much better gaming experience full of choices. If you do not decide to come back to the game, then I wish you all a happy future gaming experience. |
Kalintos Tyl
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.10.14 16:58:00 -
[2126]
Edited by: Kalintos Tyl on 14/10/2008 17:05:46
Originally by: Mora Makur
Originally by: Daelin Blackleaf Still no response to people asking why CCP felt it necessary to sugarcoat the truth, that this is a financial decision, with the falsehood, this is a bug.
Even from an immoral point of view I can't see the sense in it. I can see no reason to lie as an aside when your telling the truth about the heart of the matter to a discerning audience who are quite capable of seeing straight through this kind of thing.
This is terrible PR, and I worry that CCP may just decide to cancel this change to placate the masses while never providing an explanation as to why they felt the need to so blatantly misrepresent the facts.
Also: What made Torfi Frans Olafsson think for a second that we wouldn't notice this immediately? Does he really think, having been with the company since before launch, that the community is that stupid.
The whole thing is really quite depressing because I've always been a huge fan of CCP itself and things like this are eroding my trust in what I still consider to be the best MMO company out there.
Why is this so definitely a 'financial decision'? I find the balance issue perfectly reasonable. People were exploiting a 'feature' in order to obtain hard to get skills. I find it very odd, that people so easily dismiss the balancing issue, and so adamantly decree that this can only be a purely 'financial decision'.
If anything, I think this was both a 'financial decision' and a balance decision. I think the feature was there to begin with as a sort of leniency for those who wouldn't constantly subscribe their accounts, but it was never meant to be utilized actively as a manner of advancing a characters skills, which people were increasing doing. That was 'unfair' to people who actually paid, and I appreciate it. It became a financial decision where the overhead of maintaining offline skilling became significant.
I appreciate the initial leniency, but people exploited a nice feature, and now its gone. The exploiters have only themselves to blame for this. I'm sorry to those who can't afford to subscribe constantly, but at least your inactive accounts will still be there should you decide to come back. Maybe those with multiple accounts will reduce to one, and I think that provides for a much better gaming experience full of choices. If you do not decide to come back to the game, then I wish you all a happy future gaming experience.
it werent exploit read guide or here is jpg http://dl.eve-files.com/media/0810/lie.jpg edit wrong link :P http://dl.eve-files.com/media/0810/lie.jpg guide ninja edited already hidden topic: http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&thread |
Shea Halley
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Posted - 2008.10.14 16:58:00 -
[2127]
I don't care what they do anymore, but it is pretty cowardly that a mod can come in here and censure people but can not make some sort of reply to the masses. Also, whatever direction the game takes good luck to the people who are remaining, but it is total BS that you take out the function for me to voice my opinion by canceling because you take the accounting site down conveniently. As Mark Jacobs said about Warhammer, the best way for you to voice your displeasure with the direction of the game cancel your account. Well you people won't even let me do that. Total loss of all respect for this company and their product.
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Erimisha
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.10.14 16:58:00 -
[2128]
If money is tight at CCP perhaps they should release their so called Economy expert* and hire a PR person. At least send a few devs to a local college PR class.
*I have nothing against the economy expert per se but so far we've seen like *1* quarterly report in the 4 quarters. Sounds like he isn't doing too much of his job if you ask me.
EVE is a really fantastic game IN SPITE of CCP's gaffes but I attribute that to the playerbase and the community more than CCP's 'balancing'..
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Larg Kellein
Caldari Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
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Posted - 2008.10.14 16:59:00 -
[2129]
Originally by: St Claus
Originally by: Larg Kellein Hmmm, several sides to this, in my opinion:
1) You really can't in any degree of good faith expect to receive a service you aren't paying for. Score one for CCP.
Yeah, but it has been possible for >5 years, right from the start (right?). No active account -> no training would be ok if it had been like that right from the start. Removing feature like that now just shows that CCP really doesn't give a sh*t.
Removing rights from your customers and expecting them to like it? That's probaply the reason why they are now calling it a bug, becouse no one like bugs and it is ok to remove em.
Eeehm... did you happen to read the rest of my post as well? You know, the part where I mention your specific grievance with my post, as well as claim that CCP have lost credibility with their reasoning for this change?
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Brother Welcome
Amarr Suddenly Ninjas
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Posted - 2008.10.14 16:59:00 -
[2130]
Originally by: CCP Wrangler As the recent news stated, we will disable the ability to train skills on a suspended account. Since this has caused a lot of debate we've decided to explain why we are making this change in a new Dev Blog by t0rfifrans: Why ghost training was disabled.
Adding my vote to restore ghost-skilling.
My character is from early 2006. He was set up ridiculously badly (Amarr, high Charisma), but for the first year or so I enjoyed him a lot. Now he's faded a bit in fun, so I've been playing more intermittently.
As a father and with a busy job ghost-skilling kept me playing by letting me take short breaks to skill for new toys or edges, and come back to the game after feeling refreshed and reinterested.
-vk
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Hixxy
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 16:59:00 -
[2131]
Originally by: Elo69007 RIOT...RIOT
CCP Fails
heheh true. coax your customers not antagonise them, unless you got more money in the bank and don't give a stuff. even then it's not a good idea.
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Catherine Frasier
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Posted - 2008.10.14 17:00:00 -
[2132]
Originally by: Seth Ruin How can you define such an arbitrary line between "intended features" and "unintended features" without some kind of metric? How is it so "clear" that some features are intended? What makes them "clearly intended?" Mind you, this is not a rhetorical question.
The difference between intended and unintended is intent. For example: Stacking penalties are clearly intended. We know this because we heard explanation of what, how and why they would be implemented before it was done.
Originally by: Seth Ruin As far as you "complain[ing] about (or applaud[ing]) the way things are," isn't that what we are doing here?
Some are. And some are discussing CCP's secret agenda, or whether documenting a bug makes it a feature, or whether this dev is a liar or that dev is uninformed or whether customer service really respects me as a person or if the account management page is really broken or was CCP standing on the grassy knoll that day in November 1963...
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Julius Rigel
House Rigel
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Posted - 2008.10.14 17:00:00 -
[2133]
/me tip-toes around the thread mopping up emo-rage-quitter drama tears.
This is going to be worth a fortune on the pirate market!
I could buy more GTCs with all that money!
Frigate racing is fast and fun! |
Momoro
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 17:00:00 -
[2134]
Originally by: Gedhay
Originally by: Mora Makur Why is skill training while you have an unpaid subscription "fair"?
Why is it "fair" that a paying subscriber and an unpaid account both can accumulate SP?
As a paying subscriber, I appreciate this greatly, and I am shocked that "ghost training" continued for as long as it did. Players will now have to get used to Level V skills that are actually difficult to get.
While its regretful that players are deciding to leave the game, this only makes those Level V skills even more valuable. Thanks, CCP for a great game.
how it's fair that an paid account and only one char is training? how it's fair that an paid subscribtion can be in the position that the only char that can "acumulate SP", is not training anything caus ur job doesn't let u log in to change the skill?
One character training is fair as long as that it applies to everyone. If you want more, it costs more. After Oct 15th, it will apply to everyone, and that is fair. Just train a longer skill while you are at work or when you know you'll be away. As the 'ghost trainers' have pointed out, there are plenty skills that take a while to train. Use EveMon to help you plan. |
Crewman Jenkins
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 17:02:00 -
[2135]
I just say, let the checkbook do the talking. If this move hurts them, they will probably recall it.
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BIind
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 17:02:00 -
[2136]
Originally by: Mora Makur Why is this so definitely a 'financial decision'? I find the balance issue perfectly reasonable. People were exploiting a 'feature' in order to obtain hard to get skills. I find it very odd, that people so easily dismiss the balancing issue, and so adamantly decree that this can only be a purely 'financial decision'.
Because some of us can see that meeting where some suit goes "Wait...they are getting something for free? *implode*" before our inner eye. And these are the days where meetings with suits happen.
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Skomorokh
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 17:03:00 -
[2137]
Edited by: Skomorokh on 14/10/2008 17:10:06 I don't like that closed access to the account page - I block access to my credit card.
P.S. The approach swinish. P.P.S. Never training characters for selling but likely farewell CCP: - 3 accounts
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QuarlSWE
Minmatar Bionic Dawn
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Posted - 2008.10.14 17:03:00 -
[2138]
*bump* where did this post go ?
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JcJet
Caldari Paradise project
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Posted - 2008.10.14 17:03:00 -
[2139]
If this all not about money, then why don't allow simultaneous skill trainining for characters on same account? ---
http://profile.xfire.com/jcjet |
supr3m3justic3
Caldari Hakata Group
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Posted - 2008.10.14 17:03:00 -
[2140]
This is bullshit.....i hope ccp goes bankrupt!
__________________________________________________
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=896318&page=91 |
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Annaphera
Minmatar Super Green Industries
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 17:04:00 -
[2141]
Originally by: St Claus
Originally by: Larg Kellein Hmmm, several sides to this, in my opinion:
1) You really can't in any degree of good faith expect to receive a service you aren't paying for. Score one for CCP.
Yeah, but it has been possible for >5 years, right from the start (right?). No active account -> no training would be ok if it had been like that right from the start. Removing feature like that now just shows that CCP really doesn't give a sh*t.
Removing rights from your customers and expecting them to like it? That's probaply the reason why they are now calling it a bug, becouse no one like bugs and it is ok to remove em.
"Rights"? What "rights"? I think this really covers the rationale behind a third of the complaints here (the others being "you mean I have to pay like everyone else?!?" and "that was a stinky way to do this!" or variations thereof), and is just not 'right'. As someone else pointed out, if CCP really didn't care, why would they bother offering people discounts? Power of 2, discounts for paying for more months at once, and so on? If they really didn't care, the first thing to go should have been the free expansions, tbh. I still expect that to happen at some point, but it won't be because they "don't care" when/if it finally does.
So look at your argument. You say it would have been okay if it had been like that from the start. By that rationale, they can remove 60% of the ships in game, and not a soul should complain...titans certainly weren't there "from the start". Also, the game wouldn't be half of what it is now, because many of the first features have been replaced by new and (arguably in some cases) improved versions, or scrapped all together as no longer workable. Features change in an MMO, any MMO. Get used to it, or stop playing MMO's.
As far as "rights" go, players have only one: to not pay for an account if they are not interested in doing so. The fact that game function and features can and will change at any time is explicit in the EULA and ToS. Trying to make out like you are entitled to ANYTHING is naive; trying to claim you are entitled to receive something for nothing is just hogwash.
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IsaidNO
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Posted - 2008.10.14 17:05:00 -
[2142]
I had 3 Accounts - played 2 and skilled the tird, rotating them - so CCP got $ every month - sad but true - times have changed
First you set a timer to anchored containers (30days) Second changed the GTC from 30 to 60 days Third - stop training on inactive accounts
Fine - go on that way we will all love you for that
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Crewman Jenkins
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 17:05:00 -
[2143]
I love capitalism.
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Seviere
Caldari XBeyond
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Posted - 2008.10.14 17:07:00 -
[2144]
Thread was deleted from information portal front page... can't even begin to draw conculsions of this action |
Kekyana
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 17:07:00 -
[2145]
-2 accounts. one was allways active, other trained, now there is really no point to keep up with eve, was one of the best parts of this game..
This is a huge and serious matter.
I can not get into my account to stop my sub's I can not cancel my renewl. CCP needs to get this fixed as one of my accounts is about to re-up and I have no desire too.
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Marius Duvall
Amarr Merch Industrial GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 17:07:00 -
[2146]
Originally by: Inanna Zuni Edited by: Inanna Zuni on 14/10/2008 16:45:49 Comes home and finds the threads still going strong nearly 24 hours later ...
Originally by: (not relevant - same as many others) I never payd irl money for eve, always isk, and i was able to keep 1 account active always, while 2 others were active 7-8months/year, rest of time on ghost training. The first account is the 1 i make isk on and the other 2 are pvp characters-the cahracters i have fun with. Now, with these changes, i can't keep even 2 accounts active and what's the point in keeping the money making 1 if i don't have fun on it?
Isn't this the exact reason why this needs doing? If I translate the first phrase to English ... "I never paid real money for Eve"
So why should you get something for nothing? CCP hf are a COMPANY who want to make money to pay their staff (the developers who make this game need occasional food and beer and a place to sleep other than at their desks!) and a business needs an INCOME. If you aren't giving them an income then what gives you any right to complain about them changing their mind on how their product works - which most of us PAY FOR and, indeed, a quite happy to do so as we enjoy PLAYING the game.
The way this reads is that your first character ("The first account is the 1 i make isk on") is actually just an ISK-FARMER and not a player at all! Really??
Pay to play. Do it right.
IZ
You cannot possibly be this stupid. ---
Originally by: "Reticenti" Oh, one note to Scius, you have made Goons and BoB agree on something. Good job.
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Kekyana
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 17:08:00 -
[2147]
Why does this thread no longer show up?
Why is CCP getting rid of it? This is an OUTRAGE. not only did they LIE to us, they keep removing posts ABOUT the player's guide and now they are trying to HIDE this entire thread.
what the heck is going on over there?
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AntonioBanderas
The Bastards
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 17:08:00 -
[2148]
any answers from ccp? __________________________________________________ I can say ASS!!! And SHIT!!!! \o/
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Potty
Caldari Thundercats RAZOR Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 17:09:00 -
[2149]
Edited by: Potty on 14/10/2008 17:13:02 If itÆs to make money CCP have messed up.
IÆve being playing eve for 5 years and have had more breaks than I care to remember. And the reason why I came back... was it for changes? for updates? to see my eve mates again? Short and sharp answer is NO.
I came back because of the skill addiction CCP has built into eve. Missed time is missed SP's and that in eve is worth more than ISK.
So I resub'ed and may have got hooked and played for 4 months on the trot or played a month (coasted if at uni) and ghost trained but the point is i always came back and resubed because of the SP addiction.
Even though now the ability to Ghost is gone I still wont pay while I cant play. Yet when I can play again and semi- forgotten about eve there will be nothing to compel me to resub and log on again as there isnt the "skill will finish in 2 days" in the back of my mind.
Will I be compled to resub after the break.. Some how I doubt it. The question isnÆt will I leave eve now, but next time when I HAVE TO LEAVE because of commitments, will there be the little voice saying resub... your going to be missing out on SP's.
THAT is why I think this will lose CCP money
Potty
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HarrytheBarstool
Caldari Ecky Thump Ltd
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Posted - 2008.10.14 17:11:00 -
[2150]
Ok why was this thread unstuck'd and mysteriously moved to where it don't show ???
CCP you trying to backpeddle yet again ???
HarrytheBarstool is watching .....
*** Smoking Whippets Since 1967 *** |
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Todoshi
Caldari Caldari Logistics and Supplies
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Posted - 2008.10.14 17:11:00 -
[2151]
because they don't want anyone that hasn't seen this thread to see it
Ghost Training Removed Thread |
Caiman Graystock
Comrades in Construction Anarchy.
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Posted - 2008.10.14 17:12:00 -
[2152]
I was indifferent on this change, and still am, couldnt care less about ghost trainers. But WTF is this thread hidden for now? Lame.
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BIind
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 17:12:00 -
[2153]
This thread is really hard to find now, I told some people with inactive accounts about this and now they think I'm making this up.
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CIA1
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 17:13:00 -
[2154]
Originally by: Crewman Jenkins I love capitalism.
What a f***ng Fu** bag you are.
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Travieso
Minmatar Princeps Corp T e r c i o s
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Posted - 2008.10.14 17:13:00 -
[2155]
if you change this, my 3 account canceled and leave eve.....................
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Krycka
Minmatar Nightmare Holdings
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Posted - 2008.10.14 17:13:00 -
[2156]
Originally by: Potty If itÆs to make money CCP have messed up.
IÆve being playing eve for 5 years and have had more breaks than I care to remember. And the reason why I came back... was it for changes? for updates? to see my eve mates again? Short and sharp answer is NO.
I came back because of the skill addiction CCP has built into eve. Missed time is missed SP's and that in eve is worth more than ISK.
So I resub'ed and may have got hooked and played for 4 months on the trot or played a month (coasted if at uni) and ghost trained but the point is i always came back and resubed because of the SP addiction.
Now its gone I still wont pay while I cant play but there will be no need to log on again as there isnt the "skill will finish in 2 days" in the back of my mind.
Will I be completed to resub after the break.. Some how I doubt it. The question isnÆt will I leave eve now, but next time when I HAVE TO LEAVE because of commitments will there be the little voice saying resub... your going to be missing out on SP's.
THAT is why I think this will lose CCP money
Potty
This is exactly my feelings to.
Med ett shysst jSrnr÷r kan man sls hela vSrlden med hSpnad!
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AntonioBanderas
The Bastards
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Posted - 2008.10.14 17:13:00 -
[2157]
Edited by: AntonioBanderas on 14/10/2008 17:14:01
EVERYONE PLEASE PUT A LINK OF THIS THREAD IN YOUR BIO. EVERYONE. TY
_ __________________________________________________ I can say ASS!!! And SHIT!!!! \o/
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Seth Ruin
Minmatar Ominous Corp Ethereal Dawn
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Posted - 2008.10.14 17:13:00 -
[2158]
Originally by: AntonioBanderas any answers from ccp?
Nope! CCP has gone the entire day ignoring the player base!
-- (CCP Inconsistency)
Why cover it up? We KNOW it's all just about money |
Erimisha
Minmatar
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 17:13:00 -
[2159]
Originally by: Kekyana Why does this thread no longer show up?
Why is CCP getting rid of it? This is an OUTRAGE. not only did they LIE to us, they keep removing posts ABOUT the player's guide and now they are trying to HIDE this entire thread.
what the heck is going on over there?
Threads temporarily 'disappear' as they're being scrubbed/modded.
What is really funny is that I've read almost every page in this thread and really wonder why some of the posts were REMOVED (not moderated but outright REMOVED). I'm talking posts without any cursing, no name calling and nothing even remotely inflamatory/against the rules. This thread has been downright civil compared to what goes in C&P, CAoD and even the Market Discussion forum yet this thread has seen more moderation than those 3 forums combined in the past month..
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Seviere
Caldari XBeyond
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Posted - 2008.10.14 17:13:00 -
[2160]
Oh, I can't believe this. No access to my account and now the thread is in stealth mode.
CCP common, is any of this racional? You guys are really on a kamikaze run here. |
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C4w3
Minmatar Corp 1 Allstars
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Posted - 2008.10.14 17:13:00 -
[2161]
WTF CCP make thread hidden to the public this is getting me angry IRL be hounest ffs least you can be?!!! Stop failing! ANGRY INTERNET GAMING MOBS IRL are bad MKAY!
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Tae'Lin Hynd
Simply Planned
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Posted - 2008.10.14 17:16:00 -
[2162]
So, for "Balance" which really means, charactor transfers and sales were out of control, giving those selling said characters an unfair balance (easier and cheaper to make isk this way then selling GTCs) other things need to be put into place as well, such as selling GTC for isk, RP hoarding while inactive, orders being active well after the account is suspended, research on BPOS, If your account is inactive for even a day, all pos structures should stop consuming fuel.
How about more balance, those folks that set sell orders then log off, well, why should they make iskies while the rest of us are logged off? turn off all sell orders as soon as the character logs out, oh, also turn off research on BPOS while the charactor is logged out. No one in the corp logged in, turn the poses off while no one in the corp is active, as why should they have a passive income while they aren't playing the game. Lets make this balanced, lets do what certain countries plan on. Just give us x amounts of isk per day, and only be able to obtain x amounts of skill points per day just to make it all even so NO BODY has any sort of so called "advantage" yes said advantages can be played by all, but some are too lazy too, so we gotta be fair to them as well.
Lets make this balanced, we all will fly shuttles that can fit either 2 guns, or 2 mining lasers, no xpanders or lo slots though, as that may constitute an unfair advantage.
also while you are at it, how bout you finish bending us over, and just go ahead and remove any skill points that were trained during a lapsed account, seeing as how we were just exploiting bugs that were at the time called "benefits" of one of the most different MMOs out there. Hell just change it all, forget space, lets all just land on one planet and break out our sticks and stones and just pvp that way, all emo spamming the space bar so we can jump around WEEEEE!!!!
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Chomin H'ak
The Trivenerate
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Posted - 2008.10.14 17:16:00 -
[2163]
Pure bullshit move.
CCP #1: On noes the blog haz gone to 4X pages.
CCP #2: QUICK!!one1! Move the thread on the discussion to another one before it gets too big and new players see it!!!
CCP #1: Now that one's getting eben bigger!!!OMG!!
CCP #2: OK, put it in the Drone Regions, they won't find it there. MWAHAHAHAAHA!
Originally by: Frenden Dax My heart hopes that people aren't that stupid, but my experiences thus far suggest otherwise.
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Seviere
Caldari XBeyond
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Posted - 2008.10.14 17:16:00 -
[2164]
Originally by: Erimisha
Originally by: Kekyana Why does this thread no longer show up?
Why is CCP getting rid of it? This is an OUTRAGE. not only did they LIE to us, they keep removing posts ABOUT the player's guide and now they are trying to HIDE this entire thread.
what the heck is going on over there?
Threads temporarily 'disappear' as they're being scrubbed/modded.
What is really funny is that I've read almost every page in this thread and really wonder why some of the posts were REMOVED (not moderated but outright REMOVED). I'm talking posts without any cursing, no name calling and nothing even remotely inflamatory/against the rules. This thread has been downright civil compared to what goes in C&P, CAoD and even the Market Discussion forum yet this thread has seen more moderation than those 3 forums combined in the past month..
Probably want to cut the thread short a few pages... so it doesn't look so embarassing for them |
Elo69007
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 17:17:00 -
[2165]
CCP thinks they casn hide this thread
POST IT IN LOCAL
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Sailon
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 17:17:00 -
[2166]
Jita local?
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Annaphera
Minmatar Super Green Industries
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Posted - 2008.10.14 17:18:00 -
[2167]
Originally by: HarrytheBarstool Ok why was this thread unstuck'd and mysteriously moved to where it don't show ???
CCP you trying to backpeddle yet again ???
HarrytheBarstool is watching .....
Perhaps because it is however many pages of emo-rage, "I'm quitting" posts, and accusations of lying with only laughable backing? Thus it accomplishes no real purpose but to confuse the issue for anyone trying to find out what's going on? Besides, most people aren't even reading it anymore just posting the same things to the last page, so it seems like one unending paranoid freak-out over a minor change, with a bit of justified annoyance at the short time frame and poor handling thrown in. Oh, and justified complaints that this change wasn't "complete", leaving out things like buy/sell orders and RP.
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Sen Zinei
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Posted - 2008.10.14 17:18:00 -
[2168]
this is going to be an interesting week :) i think a lot of words have been written. but the wallets will speak louder.
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Triksterism
Gallente Frozen Corpse Inspection Services United Federation of Capsuleers
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Posted - 2008.10.14 17:18:00 -
[2169]
Originally by: Seviere
Originally by: Erimisha
Originally by: Kekyana Why does this thread no longer show up?
Why is CCP getting rid of it? This is an OUTRAGE. not only did they LIE to us, they keep removing posts ABOUT the player's guide and now they are trying to HIDE this entire thread.
what the heck is going on over there?
Threads temporarily 'disappear' as they're being scrubbed/modded.
What is really funny is that I've read almost every page in this thread and really wonder why some of the posts were REMOVED (not moderated but outright REMOVED). I'm talking posts without any cursing, no name calling and nothing even remotely inflamatory/against the rules. This thread has been downright civil compared to what goes in C&P, CAoD and even the Market Discussion forum yet this thread has seen more moderation than those 3 forums combined in the past month..
Probably want to cut the thread short a few pages... so it doesn't look so embarassing for them
In a few hours this thread will have 3 pages, all filled with posts supporting their move to eliminate ghost training. -
Ghost Train & Snowflake |
nea ion
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 17:18:00 -
[2170]
lol i think they are just going to delete this thread
|
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Tobias Lee
UK Corp Mostly Harmless
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 17:19:00 -
[2171]
This 71 page thread does not exist move along plz nothing to read here
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NupetietVer
Neuro Cartographic Services
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Posted - 2008.10.14 17:20:00 -
[2172]
What CCP really thinks about us. standard h tee tee p prefix: //img125.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ccpfingervc1.jpg
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H Lecter
Gallente The Black Rabbits The Gurlstas Associates
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Posted - 2008.10.14 17:20:00 -
[2173]
I could not care less about ghost training as I never used it.
But I do care about censorship...
My opinion is purely personal and not related to my alliance
Your signature is too large. Please resize it to a maximum of 400 x 120 with the file size not exceeding 24000 bytes. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] - Mitnal
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Seviere
Caldari XBeyond
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 17:21:00 -
[2174]
Everyone at ccp's is deleting posts. Think they even went to the employment center to get more hands on the job |
Annaphera
Minmatar Super Green Industries
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 17:21:00 -
[2175]
Originally by: Triksterism
Originally by: Seviere
Originally by: Erimisha
Originally by: Kekyana Why does this thread no longer show up?
Why is CCP getting rid of it? This is an OUTRAGE. not only did they LIE to us, they keep removing posts ABOUT the player's guide and now they are trying to HIDE this entire thread.
what the heck is going on over there?
Threads temporarily 'disappear' as they're being scrubbed/modded.
What is really funny is that I've read almost every page in this thread and really wonder why some of the posts were REMOVED (not moderated but outright REMOVED). I'm talking posts without any cursing, no name calling and nothing even remotely inflamatory/against the rules. This thread has been downright civil compared to what goes in C&P, CAoD and even the Market Discussion forum yet this thread has seen more moderation than those 3 forums combined in the past month..
Probably want to cut the thread short a few pages... so it doesn't look so embarassing for them
In a few hours this thread will have 3 pages, all filled with posts supporting their move to eliminate ghost training.
Seriously...if that happens, I'm switching sides.
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Erimisha
Minmatar
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 17:21:00 -
[2176]
Originally by: Annaphera
Originally by: HarrytheBarstool Ok why was this thread unstuck'd and mysteriously moved to where it don't show ???
CCP you trying to backpeddle yet again ???
HarrytheBarstool is watching .....
Perhaps because it is however many pages of emo-rage, "I'm quitting" posts, and accusations of lying with only laughable backing? Thus it accomplishes no real purpose but to confuse the issue for anyone trying to find out what's going on? Besides, most people aren't even reading it anymore just posting the same things to the last page, so it seems like one unending paranoid freak-out over a minor change, with a bit of justified annoyance at the short time frame and poor handling thrown in. Oh, and justified complaints that this change wasn't "complete", leaving out things like buy/sell orders and RP.
Where is your 'backing' that this is a bug? You brought up the fact that they changed the Chinese server to stop Ghost training awhile ago. If they knew how to fix the bug a year ago why did they leave it in?
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VLAD DRACU
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 17:22:00 -
[2177]
Originally by: H Lecter I could not care less about ghost training as I never used it.
But I do care about censorship...
CCP has been taken over by government! no one gets in or out! you shall not post anymore!
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Sean Mcarthur
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 17:22:00 -
[2178]
what do you mean hidden? if you open www.eve-online.com press dev blog and then coments it is right there. Isn't that where it is supossed to be? i HATE this new change but please make us all look like paronoids. I am more troubled with ccp billing partners problem.
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Gaskin Ravenwing
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Posted - 2008.10.14 17:22:00 -
[2179]
I am fine with and support this change.
I would ask that there is a "grace" time added on of 24 hours or so though
Reason being my subscription usually runs out overnight and i would hate to come back expecting my skill to have finished and find my expired subscription has put it back 12 hours or whatever
may have been mentioned already, if so, 1 vote bump to that post :) I whine alot :( |
Shard Merchant
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.10.14 17:22:00 -
[2180]
Where are you little thread? I miss you _______________________________________________ CCP CENSORSHIP ALERT: CAN YOU SPOT IT? |
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ignobil
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 17:22:00 -
[2181]
if in the main eve page you click in the "ghost training remove" news and then in the dev blog, and again in the comments you will get here again. that¦s how i find it..
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Elise Randolph
Slacker Industries
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Posted - 2008.10.14 17:23:00 -
[2182]
Hey look, people aren't talking about the nano nerf! ----------
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Sailon
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 17:23:00 -
[2183]
Originally by: Gaskin Ravenwing I am fine with and support this change.
I would ask that there is a "grace" time added on of 24 hours or so though
Reason being my subscription usually runs out overnight and i would hate to come back expecting my skill to have finished and find my expired subscription has put it back 12 hours or whatever
may have been mentioned already, if so, 1 vote bump to that post :)
are you dev alt or do you work at ccp?
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yarrmarr
Ministry of War
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 17:23:00 -
[2184]
Thank god the playerguide has been modified so it now 'correctly' states that training won't continue anymore for inactive accounts.
CCP wtf are you doing? Didn't you learn anything from your previous f*ckups in the past few years?
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BIind
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 17:24:00 -
[2185]
Edited by: BIind on 14/10/2008 17:26:01
Originally by: Sean Mcarthur what do you mean hidden? if you open www.eve-online.com press dev blog and then coments it is right there.
It wasn't for a while. Also it's missing in the threadlist of the forum where it's supposed to be (Information portal) for some reason.
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Karma
Eve University
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 17:24:00 -
[2186]
CCPs removal of and supposed moderation of certain posts in this thread... No, actually everything CCP has done on this matter so far rather reminds me of Amazon's removal of all the 1-star reviews of spore.
their credibility just went right out the window. it's all about the money.
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LomaxSE
Circle of Shadows Bionic Dawn
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Posted - 2008.10.14 17:24:00 -
[2187]
RABLE RABLE
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Tara Yang
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 17:24:00 -
[2188]
To do list
-Remove bad info from player guide -Close Account details so people can't cancel subscription and blame billing company -Delete post in thread that do not comply with our view -Hide thread from players Remove comments link from dev blog Delete dev blog about subject Delete any thread about subject And cool like nothing happend and still remove ghost training
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Rosur
Infestation. R.U.R.
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Posted - 2008.10.14 17:25:00 -
[2189]
Dont get rid of it. Dosnt really affect me as i normaly have my account active when tranning anyway. If it stops a week/2 weeks after the account runs out that would sill be better than no ghost tranning.
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Ridickulo
Minmatar Tiger-Shrimp
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 17:26:00 -
[2190]
I was just having a thought on why did the ghost training increase...
Let me see, if i have two accounts and use ghost training i get two characters with a years training for the price of one.
A year training would be about 10 to 15 mil sp and those sell for about 2 to 3 mil isk.
So i sell one of my accounts and buy myself a years worth of gametime in GTCs.
Then i realise the obvious...What if all of a sudden a major chunk of players realised this and started doing it? |
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Ares Aurora
Caldari NET Profit Trading
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 17:27:00 -
[2191]
I found this thread with very little problems after reading about the change of inactive accounts skilling.
I do hope that now they have done this they can address the current ETC price hike problem, I can see this making it only worse as a mass of players will now be trying to get an ETC to startup the skilling now they cannot 'ghost train'.
I can guess the 30D ETC was used for this purpose so whey they removed, hiding the real reasons of the 30D ETC removal by also removing the 90D ETC and replacing with a solo 60D ETC.
At least they now got 2 months of subs for each 'ghost train' attempt insteatd of 1 month when 30D was available.
Now peeps cannot 'ghost train' can we please have a better and more wider choice of ETC made available to allow for more convenient and affordable skilling for people who now have to pay to skill!!!
I do hope this is read but I fear it will not.
Love
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St Claus
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 17:27:00 -
[2192]
Originally by: Annaphera "Rights"? What "rights"?
Probaply not right word, but removing features and thus making game more expensive != good thing. And you really cant expect your customers to like it.
Originally by: Annaphera As someone else pointed out, if CCP really didn't care, why would they bother offering people discounts? Power of 2, discounts for paying for more months at once, and so on?
You really think that CCP gives Power of 2 discounts becouse they like us, their customers?
Originally by: Annaphera
So look at your argument. You say it would have been okay if it had been like that from the start. By that rationale, they can remove 60% of the ships in game, and not a soul should complain...titans certainly weren't there "from the start". Also, the game wouldn't be half of what it is now, because many of the first features have been replaced by new and (arguably in some cases) improved versions, or scrapped all together as no longer workable. Features change in an MMO, any MMO. Get used to it, or stop playing MMO's.
I know my english is bad, but i dont belive it's that bad. I didn't say that it would be ok if they had placed that feature 2 years ago and now removing it. Also, removing titans don't make this game more expensive, if you have multiple accounts.
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Kaesarr
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 17:28:00 -
[2193]
Edited by: Kaesarr on 14/10/2008 17:29:44 Yeha i read this post..
I cancel my 2 account :)
gl ccp
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Catherine Frasier
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 17:28:00 -
[2194]
Originally by: Gaskin Ravenwing I am fine with and support this change.
I would ask that there is a "grace" time added on of 24 hours or so though
Reason being my subscription usually runs out overnight and i would hate to come back expecting my skill to have finished and find my expired subscription has put it back 12 hours or whatever
They have already noted that there is a 3 day grace period.
|
WhisperSilk
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 17:29:00 -
[2195]
Originally by: Avon Edited by: Avon on 13/10/2008 23:33:51 Edited by: Avon on 13/10/2008 23:22:50 I don't mind this change at all as my accounts have always been active, but...
..you'd better be real quick cleaning out the forums of historical CCP posts about this "feature" as it was, before you try to make out it is now a "bug".
Added from my later post: Hey, your bug...
Skills continue training even if you are logged off or if your account is inactive
I found it in the player guide.
You guys better get in there and ninja-edit it.
Its been Ninjaed already... !!!! This is the worst decision CCP could have made... This WAS a major draw for the defacto 25-50 age group.. you know the ones with real lives and junk. I have 4 accounts I'll be letting go, CCP will get one final 20 payment from me for transfers to my other 2 accounts Ill be keeping. Good job CCP just reduced your player base accounts wise by probably half.. watch and youll see!!
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Erimisha
Minmatar
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 17:29:00 -
[2196]
Originally by: Sean Mcarthur what do you mean hidden? if you open www.eve-online.com press dev blog and then coments it is right there. Isn't that where it is supossed to be? i HATE this new change but please make us all look like paronoids. I am more troubled with ccp billing partners problem.
Originally by: ignobil if in the main eve page you click in the "ghost training remove" news and then in the dev blog, and again in the comments you will get here again. that¦s how i find it..
It used to be listed as a "sticky thread" (always at the top of the list) in the Eve Information Portal forum. This is the most used forum (that I know of) for people to find dev posts. There was another thread in the same forum that was simply locked after 49 pages. In the old thread there was a dev that pointed to this thread as a place to continue the discussion. Now CCP has simply removed the new thread from the EVE Information Portal.
If that isn't trying to bury it into obscurity I don't know what is.
|
Cosy Ceaon
Gallente Aliastra
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 17:29:00 -
[2197]
thread removed
is a bug is a bug a buuuuuuuuuuuuug |
RDevz
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 17:30:00 -
[2198]
Chickens coming home to roost. From http://ccp.vo.llnwd.net/o2/www/ccpgames/pdf/CCP_registration_2.pdf (CCP's Company Registration Document)
Reputational risk
Reputational risk is the risk that CCP will suffer loss of revenue due to negative publicity. Such negative publicity may result from operational decisions, or lack thereof, or from events arising within CCPÆs online virtual worlds. In this respect, it should be noted that the CompanyÆs main source of revenue is subscription fees, collected from a large number of private individuals. These individuals form a user ommunity that is highly demanding and interactive. Damage to the CompanyÆs reputation may cause these individuals to terminate their subscriptions in large numbers. In this case, future earnings would be adversely affected. |
Nathan Lee
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 17:31:00 -
[2199]
A year training would be about 10 to 15 mil sp and those sell for about 2 to 3 mil isk.
So i sell one of my accounts and buy myself a years worth of gametime in GTCs.
Whoever posted this plz tell me where i can buy 6 gtc for 3m isk cause i really really want to know :)
|
Dmian
Gallente The Scope
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 17:31:00 -
[2200]
My Name is Earl, S01-E07 "Stole Beer From A Golfer". Go see it, if you're not as slow as Randy Hickey you'll understand why this is being disabled. Cheers. ----
Eve Alpha - The font of Eve - Get it here |
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Annaphera
Minmatar Super Green Industries
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 17:31:00 -
[2201]
Originally by: Erimisha
Originally by: Annaphera
Originally by: HarrytheBarstool Ok why was this thread unstuck'd and mysteriously moved to where it don't show ???
CCP you trying to backpeddle yet again ???
HarrytheBarstool is watching .....
Perhaps because it is however many pages of emo-rage, "I'm quitting" posts, and accusations of lying with only laughable backing? Thus it accomplishes no real purpose but to confuse the issue for anyone trying to find out what's going on? Besides, most people aren't even reading it anymore just posting the same things to the last page, so it seems like one unending paranoid freak-out over a minor change, with a bit of justified annoyance at the short time frame and poor handling thrown in. Oh, and justified complaints that this change wasn't "complete", leaving out things like buy/sell orders and RP.
Where is your 'backing' that this is a bug? You brought up the fact that they changed the Chinese server to stop Ghost training awhile ago. If they knew how to fix the bug a year ago why did they leave it in?
Could it be, just possibly, maybe, because they were trying to be nice and not hurt people who were honestly just on vacation, or forgot to resub, or whatever? That they really never intended it, but wanted to leave it in as long as it wasn't getting systematically abused? Given the most common origin for farmers, I'm not surprised it got to that point on Serenity first. Now they say it has gotten there on Tranq. They most likely have logs that show them what skills are being trained by unsubbed accounts - if most of the growth in ghost training was on very high-end skills set just before the unsub, aren't they justified in assuming most are abusing? Could it be that *gasp* they might be telling us the truth??
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NupetietVer
Neuro Cartographic Services
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Posted - 2008.10.14 17:32:00 -
[2202]
Great, now the only people playing are either Fraking rich or living with mom and pop!
Great work CCP for catering to a specific few with your DumbAzk pricing on GTC's and nerfing Ghost Training, glad to see you make EVE more like ANY OTHER MMO out there!
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IR Scoutar
Caldari State War Academy
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Posted - 2008.10.14 17:34:00 -
[2203]
so ummmm wts tinfoil hats ? by the looks of things they are actualy warranted
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Georn
VIRTUAL LIFE VANGUARD Intrepid Crossing
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 17:34:00 -
[2204]
*giggle* This is more Drama than I've ever seen in the Drone Regions ...
btw removing ghost training is a bad idea in our humble opinion. As countless (at least I don't care to count) have a already explained: It removes one of the biggest incentives to return to eve after a long absence.. (sometimes you grow bored of EVE and want to try something different.. or simply can't afford it.. or your credit card expires and the replacement is late...)
With that incentive gone you might very well loose older players. Another point is: It might very well be that the amount of money racked in by Alt-accounts after this change will be lower than the amount racked in by multiple Alt-Accounts resubbing after their training finished... as I don't think people that "abused" the ghosttraining for multiple Alt-accounts will continue using and continually resub that many. ____________ even Carebears have teeth |
Ridickulo
Minmatar Tiger-Shrimp
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 17:34:00 -
[2205]
Originally by: Nathan Lee A year training would be about 10 to 15 mil sp and those sell for about 2 to 3 mil isk.
So i sell one of my accounts and buy myself a years worth of gametime in GTCs.
Whoever posted this plz tell me where i can buy 6 gtc for 3m isk cause i really really want to know :)
I did.
So the value is inacurate. If the real one is 3 GTC, you still dont see a problem? |
Julius Rigel
House Rigel
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 17:35:00 -
[2206]
Edited by: Julius Rigel on 14/10/2008 17:36:25
Originally by: NupetietVer Great, now the only people playing are either Fraking rich or living with mom and pop!
Who are these internet spaceship geeks you are talking about that DON'T live in their mother's basement?
[Edit:] Originally by: IR Scoutar wts tinfoil hats ?
Are they waterproof? Will they repell emo tears? If so I'll take two. |
Hixxy
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 17:35:00 -
[2207]
Originally by: Annaphera
Originally by: Triksterism
Originally by: Seviere
Originally by: Erimisha
Originally by: Kekyana Why does this thread no longer show up?
Why is CCP getting rid of it? This is an OUTRAGE. not only did they LIE to us, they keep removing posts ABOUT the player's guide and now they are trying to HIDE this entire thread.
what the heck is going on over there?
Threads temporarily 'disappear' as they're being scrubbed/modded.
What is really funny is that I've read almost every page in this thread and really wonder why some of the posts were REMOVED (not moderated but outright REMOVED). I'm talking posts without any cursing, no name calling and nothing even remotely inflamatory/against the rules. This thread has been downright civil compared to what goes in C&P, CAoD and even the Market Discussion forum yet this thread has seen more moderation than those 3 forums combined in the past month..
Probably want to cut the thread short a few pages... so it doesn't look so embarassing for them
In a few hours this thread will have 3 pages, all filled with posts supporting their move to eliminate ghost training.
Seriously...if that happens, I'm switching sides.
welcome to the dark side:P |
Catherine Frasier
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 17:35:00 -
[2208]
Originally by: Annaphera
Originally by: Erimisha If they knew how to fix the bug a year ago why did they leave it in?
Could it be, just possibly, maybe, because they were trying to be nice and not hurt people who were honestly just on vacation, or forgot to resub, or whatever? That they really never intended it, but wanted to leave it in as long as it wasn't getting systematically abused?
Or maybe they hoped to forestall or at least postpone the flood of OMFGIQUITYOUSUCKWAHWAHWAH that we've seen here. (And who could blame them?) |
mofokitkat
Gallente Garoun Investment Bank
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 17:36:00 -
[2209]
Originally by: yarrmarr Thank god the playerguide has been modified so it now 'correctly' states that training won't continue anymore for inactive accounts.
CCP wtf are you doing? Didn't you learn anything from your previous f*ckups in the past few years?
did they **** . pretty clear to see.
MONEY GRABBING *****S.
Don't know about you guys but i'v stuck with eve and sold it to my friends etc as the best there was if you wanted something different to WOW. Guess what. It's no longer different. It's now dated and as It's run by *******s who think were all dummies who wont quit because they have us addicted, im gonna go check out the competition.
quite a few of my closest friends in game have already bolted to warhammer. mebe it's time i went and had a look for some other company to give my hard earned cash to too.
make ccp lose out by not subbing . it's the only way to show them this isn't on. this isnt even about ghost training alone anymore. they have made the issue even bigger. |
Nathan Lee
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 17:37:00 -
[2210]
It was CCP that allowed the buying and selling of characters personally i have always been against this. |
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C4w3
Minmatar Corp 1 Allstars
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 17:37:00 -
[2211]
3. Manager The Manager, Kaupthing Bank hf û Capital Markets, Icelandic ID-No. 560882-0419 registered office at Borgartun 19, 105 Reykjavik, Iceland has been the advisor to the Issuer in the preparation of this Registration Document. The Manager has not independently verified the information contained herein. Accordingly, no representation, warranty or undertaking, express or implied, is made and no responsibility or liability is accepted by the Manager as to the accuracy or completeness of the information contained or incorporated in this document or any other information provided by the Issuer in connection with the debt instruments. The Manager does not accept any liability in relation to the information contained or incorporated by reference in this document or any other information, in any document, provided by the Issuer. Reykjavik, 8 July 2008 On behalf of the Manager Ingvar Vilhjßlmsson Stefßn -kason Managing Director Head of Fixed Income Sales
CCP do i need to be worried? cus if i am reading this right Kaupting are taken over by ur goverment? and if there is a financial problem you would tell the playerbase wouldent you? |
yarrmarr
Ministry of War
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 17:37:00 -
[2212]
Originally by: Annaphera
Originally by: Erimisha
Originally by: Annaphera
Originally by: HarrytheBarstool Ok why was this thread unstuck'd and mysteriously moved to where it don't show ???
CCP you trying to backpeddle yet again ???
HarrytheBarstool is watching .....
Perhaps because it is however many pages of emo-rage, "I'm quitting" posts, and accusations of lying with only laughable backing? Thus it accomplishes no real purpose but to confuse the issue for anyone trying to find out what's going on? Besides, most people aren't even reading it anymore just posting the same things to the last page, so it seems like one unending paranoid freak-out over a minor change, with a bit of justified annoyance at the short time frame and poor handling thrown in. Oh, and justified complaints that this change wasn't "complete", leaving out things like buy/sell orders and RP.
Where is your 'backing' that this is a bug? You brought up the fact that they changed the Chinese server to stop Ghost training awhile ago. If they knew how to fix the bug a year ago why did they leave it in?
Could it be, just possibly, maybe, because they were trying to be nice and not hurt people who were honestly just on vacation, or forgot to resub, or whatever? That they really never intended it, but wanted to leave it in as long as it wasn't getting systematically abused? Given the most common origin for farmers, I'm not surprised it got to that point on Serenity first. Now they say it has gotten there on Tranq. They most likely have logs that show them what skills are being trained by unsubbed accounts - if most of the growth in ghost training was on very high-end skills set just before the unsub, aren't they justified in assuming most are abusing? Could it be that *gasp* they might be telling us the truth??
Dude, wake up. a commercial company 'trying to be nice' will fail miserably. the company only has one goal; make profit and that's what they're doing here. |
VLAD DRACU
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 17:38:00 -
[2213]
Originally by: Annaphera the truth??
you cant handle the truth. we cant handle the truth. the truth is out there. in RU-97T.
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Hixxy
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 17:38:00 -
[2214]
open the account page so i can quit and uninstall, again. |
Retarded Noob
Caldari The Nightwatch
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 17:38:00 -
[2215]
Hello CCP, I have a bio called "noob moves of the month". what it is basically, are all the dumb things players do to themselves and other corp members. Things like: auto targeting a sentry gun in high sec during a gatecamp (The guy actually tried to warp scramble a sentry gun); giving away postions in local just by saying "hello" to corp mates on such and such gates (What are you guys doing on Anj Gate?). Simply stealing other corps loot and items resulting in a war dec (The dude was new, we didn't know he was a thief...).
Anyway can I put this great marketing stunt in there as well? It seems to fit pretty good (Claiming a bug being called a feature to bring in loads of new players suddenly is called unfair to all players even though anyone could of used it, is then removed after 5 years resulting in loss of profits.) well...... yeah. maybe ill be on after november.(NO LORD SWINDLER I'm NOT LEAVING YOU MY ITEMS.)
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gravitywave
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 17:38:00 -
[2216]
hmm and i thought the "ghostbusters" dropped off teh face of the earth a while back...
seriously tho, i really do wonder if sumthin at CCP has caused this seemingly "kneejerk" reaction or if its just some kind of command decision for whatever reason, whats for sure is that CCP MUST respond on this matter before the last remaining shreds of respect float off into space |
Sean Mcarthur
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 17:38:00 -
[2217]
got this reply when I made a petition that the managment page is down. post it here as it is a mass reply, that way I save erveryone time trying to petition it.
"Hi,
This is a mass reply sent to our customers who are having troubles using our account management website. Currently we are working on a problem with the site and in regards to our billing partners. We will have the problem resolved shortly and we ask you to please try again later today. We sincerely apologize for the inconvenience this has caused you and we assure you that your billing and personal details are absolutely safe and secure.
If this mass reply does not address your problem, then please update the petition and we will look into your problem as soon as possible.
Best regards, Senior GM Zworm EVE Online Customer Support Team "
So this is why the managment page don't work.
Oh and by the way the argument about: people using ghost training to get an alt for free, which they sell so they can buy gtc to play the main for free. that argument is FAIL. CCP sell the gtc in the first place. gtc don't make ccp loose money it just mean another player pay for you, and whenever a character is transfered ccp make 20euro/dollar so that is a good deal for them too.
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Marius Duvall
Amarr Merch Industrial GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 17:38:00 -
[2218]
Originally by: Annaphera
Originally by: Erimisha
Originally by: Annaphera
Originally by: HarrytheBarstool Ok why was this thread unstuck'd and mysteriously moved to where it don't show ???
CCP you trying to backpeddle yet again ???
HarrytheBarstool is watching .....
Perhaps because it is however many pages of emo-rage, "I'm quitting" posts, and accusations of lying with only laughable backing? Thus it accomplishes no real purpose but to confuse the issue for anyone trying to find out what's going on? Besides, most people aren't even reading it anymore just posting the same things to the last page, so it seems like one unending paranoid freak-out over a minor change, with a bit of justified annoyance at the short time frame and poor handling thrown in. Oh, and justified complaints that this change wasn't "complete", leaving out things like buy/sell orders and RP.
Where is your 'backing' that this is a bug? You brought up the fact that they changed the Chinese server to stop Ghost training awhile ago. If they knew how to fix the bug a year ago why did they leave it in?
Could it be, just possibly, maybe, because they were trying to be nice and not hurt people who were honestly just on vacation, or forgot to resub, or whatever? That they really never intended it, but wanted to leave it in as long as it wasn't getting systematically abused? Given the most common origin for farmers, I'm not surprised it got to that point on Serenity first. Now they say it has gotten there on Tranq. They most likely have logs that show them what skills are being trained by unsubbed accounts - if most of the growth in ghost training was on very high-end skills set just before the unsub, aren't they justified in assuming most are abusing? Could it be that *gasp* they might be telling us the truth??
There isn't a /facepalm big enough. |
BIind
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 17:39:00 -
[2219]
Could someone please setup an EVEMon plan for a 10mil SP character which utilizes ghost training to its fullest potential and figure out how much you can actually save a year? I'm too lazy. |
Ambulation 2008
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 17:39:00 -
[2220]
CCP trying to get more members while displeasing the existing members = PHAIL
i dont really care about ghost train i just think its fair BUT CCP you try to make it less obvious that they are doing it for money and trying to bull**** us about the real reason |
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OliverD
Novaku Inc
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 17:40:00 -
[2221]
For everyone thats going to cancel your account and I am not one of them please just contrack your stuff over to me please....
Thanks OliverD |
Ridickulo
Minmatar Tiger-Shrimp
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 17:40:00 -
[2222]
I can only say this:
EPIC FAILURE CSM!!!
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Soldur
Slacker Industries
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 17:40:00 -
[2223]
Originally by: OliverD For everyone thats going to cancel your account and I am not one of them please just contrack your stuff over to me please....
Thanks OliverD
you cant spell you ****** |
Erimisha
Minmatar
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 17:40:00 -
[2224]
Originally by: Annaphera
Where is your 'backing' that this is a bug? You brought up the fact that they changed the Chinese server to stop Ghost training awhile ago. If they knew how to fix the bug a year ago why did they leave it in?
Could it be, just possibly, maybe, because they were trying to be nice and not hurt people who were honestly just on vacation, or forgot to resub, or whatever? That they really never intended it, but wanted to leave it in as long as it wasn't getting systematically abused? Given the most common origin for farmers, I'm not surprised it got to that point on Serenity first. Now they say it has gotten there on Tranq. They most likely have logs that show them what skills are being trained by unsubbed accounts - if most of the growth in ghost training was on very high-end skills set just before the unsub, aren't they justified in assuming most are abusing? Could it be that *gasp* they might be telling us the truth??
Do you have proof that this was getting "systematically abused" any more now than in the last 5 years? I have no proof but I'd wager to give an estimate that any increase in the 'abuse' of this coincides with the removal of the 30 and 90d GTCs which caused a ridiculous price increase in GTCs.
The other thing that really bothers me about this is words like 'abusing' 'exploit' and 'cheating'. CCP intentionally coded the game to do it this way from the start. Do NOT tell me they couldn't simply execute some code at the same time the db updates "Account ACTIVE: Y" to "ACCOUNT ACTIVE: N" to pause training. Obviously they know how otherwise we would be able to log in if the account was inactive. We all know that it is possible to pause training in the middle of a train so that code is there too.
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voxen
Es and Whizz Hedonistic Imperative
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 17:43:00 -
[2225]
Edited by: voxen on 14/10/2008 17:44:51 Edited by: voxen on 14/10/2008 17:43:19
Originally by: Sean Mcarthur got this reply when I made a petition that the managment page is down. post it here as it is a mass reply, that way I save erveryone time trying to petition it.
"Hi,
This is a mass reply sent to our customers who are having troubles using our account management website. Currently we are working on a problem with the site and in regards to our billing partners. We will have the problem resolved shortly and we ask you to please try again later today. We sincerely apologize for the inconvenience this has caused you and we assure you that your billing and personal details are absolutely safe and secure.
If this mass reply does not address your problem, then please update the petition and we will look into your problem as soon as possible.
Best regards, Senior GM Zworm EVE Online Customer Support Team "
So this is why the managment page don't work.
Hmm liquidity problems in dealing with billing partners? don't tell me... |
Kalintos Tyl
Minmatar
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 17:43:00 -
[2226]
they coded it, stated in guide that you can train with inactive account and now tell you that it is bug :D |
Julius Rigel
House Rigel
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 17:44:00 -
[2227]
CCP crossed the streams! |
Annaphera
Minmatar Super Green Industries
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 17:44:00 -
[2228]
Originally by: St Claus
Originally by: Annaphera "Rights"? What "rights"?
Probaply not right word, but removing features and thus making game more expensive != good thing. And you really cant expect your customers to like it.
Well, if you can make assumptions about intent, so can I - this was never intended as a way for you to save money on your account, it was unintended and left in to act as a consolation for people who go on vacation or something and miss resubbing. Whatever word you use, you are speaking of it as if you are entitled to it. You aren't, and CCP never promised you you would have it.
Originally by: St Claus
Originally by: Annaphera As someone else pointed out, if CCP really didn't care, why would they bother offering people discounts? Power of 2, discounts for paying for more months at once, and so on?
You really think that CCP gives Power of 2 discounts becouse they like us, their customers?
Maybe not "liked", but "cared enough to want more of".
Originally by: St Claus
Originally by: Annaphera
So look at your argument. You say it would have been okay if it had been like that from the start. By that rationale, they can remove 60% of the ships in game, and not a soul should complain...titans certainly weren't there "from the start". Also, the game wouldn't be half of what it is now, because many of the first features have been replaced by new and (arguably in some cases) improved versions, or scrapped all together as no longer workable. Features change in an MMO, any MMO. Get used to it, or stop playing MMO's.
I know my english is bad, but i dont belive it's that bad. I didn't say that it would be ok if they had placed that feature 2 years ago and now removing it. Also, removing titans don't make this game more expensive, if you have multiple accounts.
But you were using duration the feature was in as justification for saying it can't be removed. How long it's been there, and since when, is absolutely meaningless. If you made the assumption that it would never change, that's your bad assumption, not CCP lying. |
Chib
Storm Guard Elite
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 17:44:00 -
[2229]
i have to agree with the majority of people in this thread
I have been playing this game 5 years now and this FEATURE intended or not is the only way i can have more than one account, with the prices of gtc's up through the roof the global economic crisis making all our money worth diddly crap you have finally priced me out of your game, added this to the decline in "giving a crap about your customers time" i am now looking for another game to play
congratz, was a good run but this is a step to far |
Son Korhal
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 17:45:00 -
[2230]
Pure stupidity.
Stopping ghost training when the My Account section isn't even working. Even if people want to reactive their accounts to start training they can't.
Idiots. It's like they don't actually want to give you a reason to resubscribe.
Delay it until My account is back at least, best to delay it another 5 years so not to **** off your customers. |
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CIA1
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 17:45:00 -
[2231]
I'm Sorry for all the devs, artist, programmers, management, and all other staff that may lose their jobs when C.C.P has to cut back on employees, because of this choice to change their own rules to stay afloat. I do realize That for C.C.P. to have come to this conclusion, It's very infrastructure must be under great stain. I will not speculate as to weather or not this may be the beginning of the end for C.C.P. , But I will say It's so for EVE. I hope That those at C.C.P. responsible for this decision realize Their mistake and move swiftly to right it. I for one would settle for Higher rates or some "else", but to change the very bones that call many to EVE is simply stupid. So in conclusion, I would like all that Find this decision a bad one, spread the word to your friends and corp mates to write, E-mail, and call C.C.P. and let them know, don't just do what we always do and just let it go by the way side. we as consumers do have voice and if they laugh at you then speak with your money. sadly yours, "ISIAM" |
Julius Rigel
House Rigel
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 17:46:00 -
[2232]
Originally by: Son Korhal Pure stupidity.
Stopping ghost training when the My Account section isn't even working. Even if people want to reactive their accounts to start training they can't.
Idiots. It's like they don't actually want to give you a reason to resubscribe.
Delay it until My account is back at least, best to delay it another 5 years so not to **** off your customers.
Uhm... nobody said it had been implemented yet... |
Azuraito
Caldari Capital Produce Free Trade Zone.
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 17:46:00 -
[2233]
I wonder if the same will happen to research points accumulation on suspended accounts?
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Wygg
Minmatar Hadean Drive Yards Archaean Cooperative
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 17:47:00 -
[2234]
Originally by: ISIAM It's very infrastructure must be under great stain.
If you insist on spamming every third page of the forums at least use a spell check. Unless that's not a typo ...
|
Alz Shado
Ever Flow Axiom Empire
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 17:47:00 -
[2235]
Edited by: Alz Shado on 14/10/2008 17:47:16 So they've stopped rewarding players who were too cheap to keep their accounts open while they continue to advance at the same rate of those of us who actually pay for the game?
I have ... let me count ... ZERO problems with this.
//// ---------=== []= ---------=== \\\\ Rifter(RedBad)
"Kill a man one is a murderer; kill a million, a conqueror; kill them all, a God." -- Jean Rostand |
Annaphera
Minmatar Super Green Industries
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 17:47:00 -
[2236]
Originally by: yarrmarr
Originally by: Annaphera
Originally by: Erimisha
Originally by: Annaphera
Originally by: HarrytheBarstool Ok why was this thread unstuck'd and mysteriously moved to where it don't show ???
CCP you trying to backpeddle yet again ???
HarrytheBarstool is watching .....
Perhaps because it is however many pages of emo-rage, "I'm quitting" posts, and accusations of lying with only laughable backing? Thus it accomplishes no real purpose but to confuse the issue for anyone trying to find out what's going on? Besides, most people aren't even reading it anymore just posting the same things to the last page, so it seems like one unending paranoid freak-out over a minor change, with a bit of justified annoyance at the short time frame and poor handling thrown in. Oh, and justified complaints that this change wasn't "complete", leaving out things like buy/sell orders and RP.
Where is your 'backing' that this is a bug? You brought up the fact that they changed the Chinese server to stop Ghost training awhile ago. If they knew how to fix the bug a year ago why did they leave it in?
Could it be, just possibly, maybe, because they were trying to be nice and not hurt people who were honestly just on vacation, or forgot to resub, or whatever? That they really never intended it, but wanted to leave it in as long as it wasn't getting systematically abused? Given the most common origin for farmers, I'm not surprised it got to that point on Serenity first. Now they say it has gotten there on Tranq. They most likely have logs that show them what skills are being trained by unsubbed accounts - if most of the growth in ghost training was on very high-end skills set just before the unsub, aren't they justified in assuming most are abusing? Could it be that *gasp* they might be telling us the truth??
Dude, wake up. a commercial company 'trying to be nice' will fail miserably. the company only has one goal; make profit and that's what they're doing here.
Thus the end of ghost training. So what is everyone so upset about?
|
Annaphera
Minmatar Super Green Industries
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 17:48:00 -
[2237]
Originally by: Hixxy
Originally by: Annaphera
Originally by: Triksterism
Originally by: Seviere
Originally by: Erimisha
Originally by: Kekyana Why does this thread no longer show up?
Why is CCP getting rid of it? This is an OUTRAGE. not only did they LIE to us, they keep removing posts ABOUT the player's guide and now they are trying to HIDE this entire thread.
what the heck is going on over there?
Threads temporarily 'disappear' as they're being scrubbed/modded.
What is really funny is that I've read almost every page in this thread and really wonder why some of the posts were REMOVED (not moderated but outright REMOVED). I'm talking posts without any cursing, no name calling and nothing even remotely inflamatory/against the rules. This thread has been downright civil compared to what goes in C&P, CAoD and even the Market Discussion forum yet this thread has seen more moderation than those 3 forums combined in the past month..
Probably want to cut the thread short a few pages... so it doesn't look so embarassing for them
In a few hours this thread will have 3 pages, all filled with posts supporting their move to eliminate ghost training.
Seriously...if that happens, I'm switching sides.
welcome to the dark side:P
Hasn't happened yet...this sucker is still 73 pages and growing, most of it anti-CCP flame.
|
Soldur
Slacker Industries
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 17:48:00 -
[2238]
Originally by: Kalintos Tyl they coded it, stated in guide that you can train with inactive account and now tell you that it is bug :D
ha ha yea i saw that already stupid ****ers
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ISIAM
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 17:49:00 -
[2239]
Originally by: Wygg
Originally by: ISIAM It's very infrastructure must be under great stain.
If you insist on spamming every third page of the forums at least use a spell check. Unless that's not a typo ...
IT wasn't.
|
Chib
Storm Guard Elite
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 17:49:00 -
[2240]
also to quote the dude in the Blog
the reason there is a surge in training is because the global economy is shot to hell all our money is useless or getting there
this was one of eves MAIN selling points, no grinding
now you have very little going for you
roll on startrek online ---------------------------------------------
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Hixxy
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Posted - 2008.10.14 17:50:00 -
[2241]
Originally by: Azuraito I wonder if the same will happen to research points accumulation on suspended accounts?
kinda screwed since the lottery was hidden and as such a cherry pick.
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Muad' Dib
Gallente Beyond Divinity Inc
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Posted - 2008.10.14 17:50:00 -
[2242]
Looks like CCP still hasn't learned better PR. It's not even such a big change, and when you think of it, it doesn't affect your gameplay that badly, but like usual, CCP's awefull PR turned it into a disaster, hard to think a better destruction ****tail. :) --- I smack just for myself.
Your signature is too large. Please resize it to a maximum of 400 x 120 with the file size not exceeding 24000 bytes. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] - Mitnal |
Shad0wsFury
Slacker Industries
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Posted - 2008.10.14 17:50:00 -
[2243]
Not that this will likely ever be read, but here goes:
I think CCP needs the cash. Iceland's economy is trashed, and they might need the immediate infusion of cash that hundreds of accounts reactivating within a few day period will bring them.
Regardless, even though I don't "ghost train" I think removing this FEATURE is garbage. I remember reading about it a long time ago, when I had some real life issues that were going to prevent me from playing, and it was listed as FEATURE that your account would continue training a skill for 30 or 60 days (forget how long exactly) after the account lapsed.
However, I do agree with CCP that the FEATURE was being abused by certain people. Given that not everyone abuses it, it would have been a much more appropriate move to deal with each "ghost trainer" individually, looking at account history and seeing who was abusing it and who wasn't. Abusers get the feature taken away, simple as that.
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Muad' Dib
Gallente Beyond Divinity Inc
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Posted - 2008.10.14 17:51:00 -
[2244]
Can't say c-o-c-k-t-a-i-l here ... :) --- I smack just for myself.
Your signature is too large. Please resize it to a maximum of 400 x 120 with the file size not exceeding 24000 bytes. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] - Mitnal |
Catherine Frasier
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Posted - 2008.10.14 17:52:00 -
[2245]
Originally by: Erimisha CCP intentionally coded the game to do it this way from the start. Do NOT tell me they couldn't simply execute some code at the same time the db updates "Account ACTIVE: Y" to "ACCOUNT ACTIVE: N" to pause training.
There's a huge and important difference between "Didn't fix it right away" and "intentionally coded the game to do it this way from the start". Pretending they are the same thing is just lying.
Further, skills don't actually train in real time, it just appears that way. When you log in it calculates how many skill points you accumulated since your last log-in and adds that to the existing count. I imagine now the system will update your character file after the 3 day grace period has expired by finalizing the sp count and setting the skill in training to "none". (Which, I agree, they should probably have done when this oversight was first discovered. Sloppy.)
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Huberek Morchu
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Posted - 2008.10.14 17:52:00 -
[2246]
I cant wait till all you guys quit and leave more game for me. Less competition is good!
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Azuraito
Caldari Capital Produce Free Trade Zone.
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Posted - 2008.10.14 17:53:00 -
[2247]
Originally by: Huberek Morchu I cant wait till all you guys quit and leave more game for me. Less competition is good!
Signed
Originally by: Joshua Foiritain Hiding would be the way to go.
The mods ganked my Sig :( |
Seth Ruin
Minmatar Ominous Corp Ethereal Dawn
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Posted - 2008.10.14 17:54:00 -
[2248]
Originally by: Son Korhal Edited by: Son Korhal on 14/10/2008 17:52:30
Originally by: CCP Wrangler Test2
Lost for words on another epic ccp fail idea?
Edit: Ok wrangler likes to delete his own posts.
Makes me think the "test" posts are possibly Wrangler trying to fix this thread? Could be that it disappeared entirely by accident, and they're actually trying to fix it
-- (CCP Inconsistency)
Why cover it up? We KNOW it's all just about money |
Gedhay
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Posted - 2008.10.14 17:54:00 -
[2249]
Originally by: Son Korhal Edited by: Son Korhal on 14/10/2008 17:52:30
Originally by: CCP Wrangler Test2
Lost for words on another epic ccp fail idea?
Edit: Ok wrangler likes to delete his own posts.
and posts of others
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Brutor Tutor
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Posted - 2008.10.14 17:54:00 -
[2250]
# players have 2+ alts and leave one unsubscribed while training battleship V or similar and have something new & exciting to come back to # Players have military, family, travel commitments and have used this feature # The fact that CCP Fallout effectively lied by saying it was game balance # The æbugÆ was listed as a feature in the manual, and now it is an exploit after 5 Years? # This does not affect game balance, but probably will CCP hfÆs bank balance, many are predicting negatively # Very timely decision given the recent price hike in GTCs, the recent power of 2 offer, and the current state of IcelandÆs ecomomy # Grand total of TWO DAYS notice does not seem fair to the loyal customer base
Iceland run on a different calender where 13th October is known as April 1st?.
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Sailon
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Posted - 2008.10.14 17:54:00 -
[2251]
Originally by: Azuraito
Originally by: Huberek Morchu I cant wait till all you guys quit and leave more game for me. Less competition is good!
Signed
yea i assume no pvp targets to shoot is fun :D
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Huma Tsalis
AWE Corporation Intrepid Crossing
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Posted - 2008.10.14 17:55:00 -
[2252]
Cache cleared. |
Hixxy
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Posted - 2008.10.14 17:56:00 -
[2253]
Originally by: Azuraito
Originally by: Huberek Morchu I cant wait till all you guys quit and leave more game for me. Less competition is good!
Signed
i remember the face:P
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CCP Wrangler
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Posted - 2008.10.14 17:56:00 -
[2254]
Originally by: Seth Ruin
Originally by: Son Korhal Edited by: Son Korhal on 14/10/2008 17:52:30
Originally by: CCP Wrangler Test2
Lost for words on another epic ccp fail idea?
Edit: Ok wrangler likes to delete his own posts.
Makes me think the "test" posts are possibly Wrangler trying to fix this thread? Could be that it disappeared entirely by accident, and they're actually trying to fix it
Yes, we're trying to fix it but we'll need to have web take a look at it. It's still accessible through the other sticky though.
Wrangler Community Manager CCP Hf, EVE Online Email
Reducing lag in EVE: The Jita Conundrum - StacklessIO or: How We Reduced Lag - Such Stuff As Dreams Are Made On - EVE64 - My node was equipped with the following... |
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Eheufaucan
VIRTUAL LIFE VANGUARD Intrepid Crossing
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Posted - 2008.10.14 17:56:00 -
[2255]
Looks like SOE took over CCP. If so...will EVE be added to the Station Access so I can play it together with Everquest 2 for only one monthly fee? Would be great!
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Tac Ginaz
The Righteous Few
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Posted - 2008.10.14 17:56:00 -
[2256]
Edited by: Tac Ginaz on 14/10/2008 18:00:59 A quick look at some numbers from my end only.
I have only 2 accounts. One is my fighting character the other my trade character.
I rarely log my trade character in as it is just to make market orders and haul stuff in the freighter.
This trader character is ghost-trained. One month I sub, the other month I do not as the 31+ day train skill is just silly to pay for in an account that doesnt even undock for most of its existence. Repeat.
12 months of a year I pay 6 for the trade char. The fighting account is subbed the whole 12 months.
Assuming easy number of $12 per month per account.
Fighting char: $144 a year Trade Char: $72 Total: $216
Now, after this change, I have no reason at all to keep my trader account active at any time of the year. So it will not be resubbed but rather, I'll cut my losses and transfer the character to my fighting account and just use it as a trade char.
So now, CCP loses on $72 and only receives a one time fee of $20 as I move my trader toon into the fighting account.
I will still make the same amount of isk in the game, just that I may not be able to ever fly the jump freighter I was ghost training the trader for. *shrug* c'est la vie.
Estimating about 20,000 accounts in the game who hold dual or triple+ accounts.. look at the losses CCP is looking at now as most of those 20k dual+ account holders are doing the same thing I am:
20,000 active (full time): 240,000 USD 20,000 semi-active accts (half-time): 120,000 USD
Loss caused by the cancel of the half-time accts.. wow look at that. 120 grand.
So, seriously CCP.. is the 'issues with database' really causing you a loss of $120k USD a year?
Or... did you really believe the playerbase would simply sub year-long their semi-active accounts and increase your revenue?
That's naive and incredibly short sighted. Sadly, after looking at your track record of monumentally unwise decisions and policies over the years I really believe you folks thought this would happen.
On the other hand, if you guys would've fixed the issue of unsubbed accounts having market orders active and paying maintainance on offices and such.. THAT would have been received with a much better response.
It really is silly that when I went overseas for a couple of years I had my trade character holding an office in a station with really big sale orders (quantity). Came back two years later.. It still held the office and corp name/CEO status and all my stuff was sold with a really big profit.
THAT is an issue.
Non-active accounts should not receive nor give out isk. Skill training I say is a good feature as long as the player needs to resub every other month to set new skill (its revenue for CCP) and it does not affect the game economy. But leaving a non-paying account still affecting the market is an issue.
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Kaesarr
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Posted - 2008.10.14 17:57:00 -
[2257]
Edited by: Kaesarr on 14/10/2008 17:57:00 http://img0.liveinternet.ru/images/attach/b/2/24/921/24921400_censured.jpg
censored area..
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Seth Ruin
Minmatar Ominous Corp Ethereal Dawn
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Posted - 2008.10.14 17:58:00 -
[2258]
Originally by: CCP Wrangler Yes, we're trying to fix it but we'll need to have web take a look at it. It's still accessible through the other sticky though.
--ConspiracyTheories;
Well that's one down.
-- (CCP Inconsistency)
Why cover it up? We KNOW it's all just about money |
Erimisha
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.10.14 17:58:00 -
[2259]
Originally by: Shad0wsFury
However, I do agree with CCP that the FEATURE was being abused by certain people. Given that not everyone abuses it, it would have been a much more appropriate move to deal with each "ghost trainer" individually, looking at account history and seeing who was abusing it and who wasn't. Abusers get the feature taken away, simple as that.
The idea was that everyone COULD do it at one time or another.
Look, not everyone 'abuses' the in-game market to make billions of ISK/month. Is that a bug that should be fixed?
Let's also point out that first CCP claimed it was being fixed because it created database lag and then they changed it to a known feature listed in their official documentation suddenly became a bug. CCP is obviously moderating these threads pretty heavily yet they're ignoring any kind of feedback/response from a dev on the matter.
This is exactly how they handled the whole 'cheating dev' fiasco years ago. Except this time there is no 'whistle blower' to try and lay the blame on as a diversion.
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yarrmarr
Ministry of War
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Posted - 2008.10.14 17:58:00 -
[2260]
Originally by: Annaphera
Originally by: yarrmarr
Dude, wake up. a commercial company 'trying to be nice' will fail miserably. the company only has one goal; make profit and that's what they're doing here.
Thus the end of ghost training. So what is everyone so upset about?
Are you really that simplistic? I'll give it one more try to explain it. You are conveniently assuming that ghost training was a nice feat, aren't you? Maybe you should try and see it as an essential way of making sure that people who would otherwise have stopped playing would have an incentive to return after 1-2-3 etc months. Why do you think it would have made it to the official player guide as a feature?
The fact that is apparently is being abused (where's the proof?) sucks, but labelling it as something that has been a bug since day 1 and thereby lieing to your customers while hoping to get away with it is simply the most stupid thing possible. Add to that a flavor of very bad timing and the appearance of 'hey guys, you'll loose something you've had for 5 years in about two days and uhm... sucks to be you' and the result is what you have here. Very bad PR and angry customers.
Note; I'm not even talking about whether it's a good or a bad thing to remove it as such, just trying to make you understand that your point of view is very simplistic. It's not gonna bring in any additional revenue so from a commercial perspective they are doing something really wrong.
Nuff said.
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Annaphera
Minmatar Super Green Industries
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Posted - 2008.10.14 17:59:00 -
[2261]
Originally by: Erimisha
Originally by: Annaphera
Where is your 'backing' that this is a bug? You brought up the fact that they changed the Chinese server to stop Ghost training awhile ago. If they knew how to fix the bug a year ago why did they leave it in?
Could it be, just possibly, maybe, because they were trying to be nice and not hurt people who were honestly just on vacation, or forgot to resub, or whatever? That they really never intended it, but wanted to leave it in as long as it wasn't getting systematically abused? Given the most common origin for farmers, I'm not surprised it got to that point on Serenity first. Now they say it has gotten there on Tranq. They most likely have logs that show them what skills are being trained by unsubbed accounts - if most of the growth in ghost training was on very high-end skills set just before the unsub, aren't they justified in assuming most are abusing? Could it be that *gasp* they might be telling us the truth??
Do you have proof that this was getting "systematically abused" any more now than in the last 5 years? I have no proof but I'd wager to give an estimate that any increase in the 'abuse' of this coincides with the removal of the 30 and 90d GTCs which caused a ridiculous price increase in GTCs. CCP says it has, but I doubt you'll take their word for it. I'm guessing the GTC bit cause some, yes, but that should have been more spread, I'd think, and start sooner after the change. Personally, I'm guardedly willing to take CCP's word at face value...until and unless it is proven they are lying this time.
Originally by: Erimisha The other thing that really bothers me about this is words like 'abusing' 'exploit' and 'cheating'. CCP intentionally coded the game to do it this way from the start. Do NOT tell me they couldn't simply execute some code at the same time the db updates "Account ACTIVE: Y" to "ACCOUNT ACTIVE: N" to pause training. Obviously they know how otherwise we would be able to log in if the account was inactive. We all know that it is possible to pause training in the middle of a train so that code is there too.
'Exploit' is overstating things, I agree. 'Cheating' is a matter of perspective, and I can see how some might call it that. 'Abusing' is the word CCP used, and frankly, I can understand it if they are telling us the truth about the surge in numbers. Now, my turn - if you aren't telepathic and can't produce a statement that says this was intentional, then stop stating so as if it were a fact. From what quotes I've seen, CCP never intended to have it there, any more than jetcan mining was intended. However, they left it as a perk as long as it wasn't being used by large numbers of people to get something for nothing. Now it is, and now it goes away. Hence, "abused".
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Mallikan
Gallente Plundering Penguins Anarchy.
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Posted - 2008.10.14 17:59:00 -
[2262]
Good job CCP, again, I completely agree with this action and the dev blog. Thanks and it's about time. Whiners, STFU or GTFO already. The whole time you're whining for CCP to "fix" what has just been fixed you're paying for a game you swear to quit along with your alts. Do it already ffs, I'm sick of seeing your negative posts against a game you obviously enjoy.
CCP: 1 Whine Troll Emo's: -2
You lose emo kids, go play some Guitar Hero or something before you start crying. --- lol.. I messed up.
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Kename Fin
Caldari Dark Star Galactic Engineers
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Posted - 2008.10.14 18:00:00 -
[2263]
I joined EVE when they added a Mac client. It was one of the few modern MMO's with a Mac client [no comment about the quality of the client] and I was excited and thrilled. I mailed all my Mac using friends. I loved the EVE community and the fact that it seemed like CCP was interested in serving the game playing community in the process of selling and improving their game.
I am sad. I've only used ghost training for a couple of times. Both times were when I had to be out of the game for personal reasons but didn't want to fall behind. It WAS a feature. I've since subbed with for a year, but if I can find a good Mac MMO out there, I'm not sure I would be willing to pass it up for EVE. I'm sad that the community has lost an advocate for their favorite game with the passing of CCP. The shadow has fallen and we are under it.
I'm not an emo, a carebear or a pie rat, I'm just an EVE player who has lost her idealistic innocence about a game she loved.
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Soldur
Slacker Industries
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Posted - 2008.10.14 18:01:00 -
[2264]
Edited by: Soldur on 14/10/2008 18:02:22
Originally by: Mallikan Good job CCP, again, I completely agree with this action and the dev blog. Thanks and it's about time. Whiners, STFU or GTFO already. The whole time you're whining for CCP to "fix" what has just been fixed you're paying for a game you swear to quit along with your alts. Do it already ffs, I'm sick of seeing your negative posts against a game you obviously enjoy.
CCP: 1 Whine Troll Emo's: -2
You lose emo kids, go play some Guitar Hero or something before you start crying.
shame you are too stupid to understand that "ghost training" has no effect on game play or the auctual state of the game.
u must be a ccp alt
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Sailon
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Posted - 2008.10.14 18:01:00 -
[2265]
Originally by: Mallikan Good job CCP, again, I completely agree with this action and the dev blog. Thanks and it's about time. Whiners, STFU or GTFO already. The whole time you're whining for CCP to "fix" what has just been fixed you're paying for a game you swear to quit along with your alts. Do it already ffs, I'm sick of seeing your negative posts against a game you obviously enjoy.
CCP: 1 Whine Troll Emo's: -2
You lose emo kids, go play some Guitar Hero or something before you start crying.
emo troll knows other emo trolls.
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Joseph Snite
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Posted - 2008.10.14 18:03:00 -
[2266]
For the people who say, "people want a service and not have to pay for it"..
I am actually not being cheap at all. I am just not paying for somthing I am not playing. How is that cheap? Just because I logged on one time and clicked one button, that justifies paying 15$?
Personally I know no one cares and there will be someone who posts "Oh well". I will probably quit the game because of this. Yeah big deal CCP will lose my 15$ a month. But will also lose a customer who buys GTC's and sells them for isk to other players to keep their subscriptions active.
I clearly dont think it was a bug, Its been documented that they knew about it and havent consider'd it to be a bug until just recently. And yes it is unfortunate that the account management page is not working. But I dont think its a conspiracy.
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Dulas
Caldari Corp 1 Allstars
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Posted - 2008.10.14 18:03:00 -
[2267]
HAHAHAHAHAHAHHA LOLOLOLOLOL You have just been podded by CCP.
Can I have your stuff?
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Tir'in B'karra
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Posted - 2008.10.14 18:04:00 -
[2268]
Originally by: Tac Ginaz
This trader character is ghost-trained. One month I sub, the other month I do not as the 31+ day train skill is just silly to pay for in an account that doesnt even undock for most of its existence. Repeat.
Silly to you because you've simply become used to ghost training. No other game lets you ghost train, and no one in those games whines and says that it's silly. It's not silly to have to -pay- for a -game- that you are benefiting from. Do you benefit from that character on your regular character? Yes. Therefore you should be paying to enjoy that character. What you're saying is absolutely silly. You're asking CCP if losing money they haven't lost yet is worth implementing a fix that they realized they need to fix. Fail much?
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Simon DeTorqueville
Amarr
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Posted - 2008.10.14 18:05:00 -
[2269]
To all those folks fleeing Eve at the thought of having to pay to play:
I also will take all your stuff when you go.
C-ya! |
VLAD DRACU
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Posted - 2008.10.14 18:05:00 -
[2270]
Originally by: Mallikan Good job CCP, again, I completely agree with this action and the dev blog. Thanks and it's about time. Whiners, STFU or GTFO already. The whole time you're whining for CCP to "fix" what has just been fixed you're paying for a game you swear to quit along with your alts. Do it already ffs, I'm sick of seeing your negative posts against a game you obviously enjoy.
CCP: 1 Whine Troll Emo's: -2
You lose emo kids, go play some Guitar Hero or something before you start crying.
sir, allow us to worship your might
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Catherine Frasier
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Posted - 2008.10.14 18:05:00 -
[2271]
Originally by: Soldur u must be a ccp alt
Clearly it's time for the Eve Tinfoil Hat Drinking Game.
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IR Scoutar
Caldari State War Academy
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Posted - 2008.10.14 18:05:00 -
[2272]
Originally by: Catherine Frasier
Originally by: Erimisha CCP intentionally coded the game to do it this way from the start. Do NOT tell me they couldn't simply execute some code at the same time the db updates "Account ACTIVE: Y" to "ACCOUNT ACTIVE: N" to pause training.
There's a huge and important difference between "Didn't fix it right away" and "intentionally coded the game to do it this way from the start". Pretending they are the same thing is just lying.
Further, skills don't actually train in real time, it just appears that way. When you log in it calculates how many skill points you accumulated since your last log-in and adds that to the existing count. I imagine now the system will update your character file after the 3 day grace period has expired by finalizing the sp count and setting the skill in training to "none". (Which, I agree, they should probably have done when this oversight was first discovered. Sloppy.)
actualy i would call it intentional because at what point would you say ok so when the game time runs out we need to stop the character from doing things and then somebody goes ahead and codes it in a way that the character cant login to myeve or the eve client itself but everything else about the character still continues to run ?
at some point there was a deliberate decision that its ether too much work or its fine if the character continues to sell train and earn rp even thou he aint paying and 5 years to revearse that decision is quite quite quite a stretch if it was an oversight then im just lost for words and must /facepalm till eternity
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Kalintos Tyl
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.10.14 18:05:00 -
[2273]
you can have my wardec for all i have your stuff trolling http://dl.eve-files.com/media/0810/lie.jpg guide ninja edited already hidden topic: http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&thread |
NephI AsantE
Pandoras Military And Civilian Operations Group Raging Phoenix Alliance
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Posted - 2008.10.14 18:06:00 -
[2274]
Edited by: NephI AsantE on 14/10/2008 18:07:32 YES! I got first page of the 3rd gen of this SNAFU by CCP.
Since 2nd Gen of this SNAFU thread is "invisible" and 1st Gen of the SNAFU thread got locked.
Oh and CCP(Fill in your name here) STOP READING And Get fixing the account mgmt page!
Nephi |
Catherine Frasier
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Posted - 2008.10.14 18:07:00 -
[2275]
Originally by: IR Scoutar actualy i would call it intentional because...
Sadly the word "intentional" already has a definition.
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HeyRahNah
Di-Tron Heavy Industries Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2008.10.14 18:07:00 -
[2276]
I have had 2 accounts for a long long time. I have very occasionnally ghost trained skills.
Usually maybe for a week or at max 2. Simply because i had say a month of training on a skill. i start it then my sub runs out 2weeks later... if i have no need to use that character. i didnt bother to sub it back till it was ready.
Carrier 5 was 1 skill that i "ghost trained" mainly because i got bored of eve and quit for a good 7months. left a long skill going so it wouldnt be a total waste if i ever came back.
And everybody who says you should have to pay and are making the argument about SP for free are idiots. no im sorry but you are. EVE is a TOTALLY DIFFERENT GAME TO ANY OTHER. In WoW or anywhere else your XP depends how much you play/kill/do etc. In Eve your Isk depends on it. not your SP.
EvE is designed so that SP comes in at a fixed rate. there is no REAL way of increasing how fast they come in. learning skills etc dont count because they are skills. There is nothing in game that you can actively do to gain SP. What you do when you play is make isk. or blow isk up. in general terms.
SP arent a factor as to making you play. If i have a character with 2weeks left on a skill with my sub about to run out which i dont need to play for any reason as i already have my main going, Why should i have to pay. to have it sit there doing nothing for 2weeks untill i can use it for whatever purpose i want it for... then again if its like me. my second account is always subbed because i use it alot.
SP arent eve's XP. Isk is. you earn it when you play. SP is just eve's way of throttling you so you cant powerlevel and become insanely better than other people at everything unless you put alot of time into the game. It works well. It also requires a hefty investment, into the game, of time and money to get into the larger and later on ships.
in NO OTHER GAME do you have a predetermined Minimum amount of time you need to play just to get to a certain level. In WoW etc 2 people can start at the same time. 1 can non stop level and play nothing else and reach the max level wayyyy before the other guy who plays it casually does. This isnt the Case in EvE.
This tbh wont effect me a Huge amount because i dont actively do it. What i do do, however, is take breaks from eve when it gets stale. i'll leave a skill going so if i feel like coming back at some point. I will have maybe something new to play with. It gives me a incentive to re-sub. This now just means that if i do stop again the incentives to re-sub are gonna be pretty slim as i'd be in the exact same situation as i was when i left.
I do understand that people abuse this system to pay very little to create a Character they train up then sell for alot of iskies. This is lame on all accounts. But i dont think this is the solution to it. Your screwing alot of other people. Spraying badguys and hostages with a SMG instead of using a sniper rifle to pick em off 1by1 :( ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Like OMG LLAMA LLAMA LLAMA EVERYWHERE LLAMA OMG RAWR LLAMA |
Kename Fin
Caldari Dark Star Galactic Engineers
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Posted - 2008.10.14 18:07:00 -
[2277]
Originally by: Joseph Snite
I am actually not being cheap at all. I am just not paying for somthing I am not playing. How is that cheap? Just because I logged on one time and clicked one button, that justifies paying 15$?
That's a good point. We are after all in a persistent universe. Should your market orders disappear when you go inactive? What about a research job you are running for your corporation? How do they get the BPO back?
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Erimisha
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.10.14 18:08:00 -
[2278]
Originally by: Tir'in B'karra
Silly to you because you've simply become used to ghost training. No other game lets you ghost train, and no one in those games whines and says that it's silly. It's not silly to have to -pay- for a -game- that you are benefiting from. Do you benefit from that character on your regular character? Yes. Therefore you should be paying to enjoy that character. What you're saying is absolutely silly. You're asking CCP if losing money they haven't lost yet is worth implementing a fix that they realized they need to fix. Fail much?
What you're failing to understand that that people like him probably never would have gotten a second account in the first place if not for Ghost Training. In that situation CCP actually GAINED 6 months of subscription from him.
You use the same logic as software companies when talking about how much they've lost to piracy. In that case they assume that everyone who pirated their software would have bought it. That is simply not true. So people like you and CCP think they "lost" 6 months of subscription due to 'ghost training' but in reality they got an additional 6 months of subs from him that they never would have gotten before.
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Yeknom Nam
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Posted - 2008.10.14 18:10:00 -
[2279]
Originally by: Catherine Frasier
Originally by: Soldur u must be a ccp alt
Clearly it's time for the Eve Tinfoil Hat Drinking Game.
You lose credibility to your argument by vehemently denying it.
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IR Scoutar
Caldari State War Academy
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Posted - 2008.10.14 18:11:00 -
[2280]
Originally by: Catherine Frasier
Originally by: IR Scoutar actualy i would call it intentional because...
Sadly the word "intentional" already has a definition.
thx for that up untill now i thought u where somebody with a diffrent possition you know somebody you can have a discussion with
that however is no longer the case
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Echthalian
Martian Productions
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Posted - 2008.10.14 18:12:00 -
[2281]
Edited by: Echthalian on 14/10/2008 18:28:14 WOOW, I just read this...
I quit eve!
I'm not paying $ when I'm not playing the game, cause I want that XX skill to train(while taking a brake from the game), so I have an interest in the game again.
Warhammer here I come.
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St Claus
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Posted - 2008.10.14 18:13:00 -
[2282]
Originally by: Annaphera
Originally by: St Claus
Originally by: Annaphera "Rights"? What "rights"?
Probaply not right word, but removing features and thus making game more expensive != good thing. And you really cant expect your customers to like it.
Well, if you can make assumptions about intent, so can I - this was never intended as a way for you to save money on your account, it was unintended and left in to act as a consolation for people who go on vacation or something and miss resubbing. Whatever word you use, you are speaking of it as if you are entitled to it. You aren't, and CCP never promised you you would have it.
Sorry, missed the part in training guide where it said that i can only use that "bug"/feature if i am on vacation.
Originally by: Annaphera
Originally by: St Claus
Originally by: Annaphera
So look at your argument. You say it would have been okay if it had been like that from the start. By that rationale, they can remove 60% of the ships in game, and not a soul should complain...titans certainly weren't there "from the start". Also, the game wouldn't be half of what it is now, because many of the first features have been replaced by new and (arguably in some cases) improved versions, or scrapped all together as no longer workable. Features change in an MMO, any MMO. Get used to it, or stop playing MMO's.
I know my english is bad, but i dont belive it's that bad. I didn't say that it would be ok if they had placed that feature 2 years ago and now removing it. Also, removing titans don't make this game more expensive, if you have multiple accounts.
But you were using duration the feature was in as justification for saying it can't be removed. How long it's been there, and since when, is absolutely meaningless. If you made the assumption that it would never change, that's your bad assumption, not CCP lying.
No i did not. I said that you can in good faith to expect to receive this service for free, becouse it is the way it used to be. And if changed, CCP cant expect us to be happy and believe "it was a bug"-BS.
Didn't say that CCP is lying becouse they change something. I did say that the reason they gave us is a lie.
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Catherine Frasier
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Posted - 2008.10.14 18:13:00 -
[2283]
Originally by: Yeknom Nam
Originally by: Catherine Frasier
Originally by: Soldur u must be a ccp alt
Clearly it's time for the Eve Tinfoil Hat Drinking Game.
You lose credibility to your argument by vehemently denying it.
Brilliant! So if you accuse me and I deny it, that convinces you. If you accuse me and I admit it, that convinces you. If you accuse me and I don't respond, that convinces you.
Hell, you could have this conversation all by yourself! (But then somehow I suspect that you do a lot of that too.)
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Simon DeTorqueville
Amarr
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Posted - 2008.10.14 18:13:00 -
[2284]
Originally by: Kaesarr Edited by: Kaesarr on 14/10/2008 17:57:00 http://img0.liveinternet.ru/images/attach/b/2/24/921/24921400_censured.jpg
censored area..
The graphics spells censured, From Wikipedia, "Censure (pronounced /ˈsɛnʃəɹ/ is a process by which a formal reprimand is issued to an individual by an authoritative body. In a deliberative assembly, a motion to censure is used" which may be what you meant, but I would guess from the tail of your post you meant, "Censorship is the suppression of speech or deletion of communicative material which may be considered objectionable, harmful or sensitive, as determined by a censor. The rationale for censorship is different for various types of data censored"
Ether way, it is just Wrangler testing, not censorship. |
Amarr Hyena
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Posted - 2008.10.14 18:14:00 -
[2285]
hmm, the thread is gone when I wake up. between this and what seems to be CCP lying about the 'unintended feature' im considering if I should quit out of spite.
as I said before I am indiffrent about this ghost training but I dont like the possibility of being screwed with here. perhaps the thread thing is just a error that came at a bad time, but im certainly thinking twice about all of you. ------- ghost training Threadnaught V. Skills continue training even if you are logged off or if your account is inactive. |
BIind
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Posted - 2008.10.14 18:15:00 -
[2286]
Originally by: Echthalian Warhammer here I come.
Hahahaha, set a long skill. Or a short one.
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Ahnrah
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Posted - 2008.10.14 18:16:00 -
[2287]
Edited by: Ahnrah on 14/10/2008 18:17:56 This from CCP's Company Registration Report in the section that deals with potential risks for the company and it's shareholders (mostly CPP.hf staff I know, but still):
Quote:
Reputational risk Reputational risk is the risk that CCP will suffer loss of revenue due to negative publicity. Such negative publicity may result from operational decisions, or lack thereof, or from events arising within CCPÆs online virtual worlds. In this respect, it should be noted that the CompanyÆs main source of revenue is subscription fees, collected from a large number of private individuals. These individuals form a user community that is highly demanding and interactive. Damage to the CompanyÆs reputation may cause these individuals to terminate their subscriptions in large numbers. In this case, future earnings would be adversely affected.
The move to abolish 'ghost training'is obviously unpopular. Perhaps a little dialogue with the people who pay your wages might not go amiss, rather than making such snap decisions and suffering a reputational backlash. In my view this would be a more progressive way to protect your margins. Given present Icelandic economic instability, snowflakes may turn into avalanches in less time than you have to react.
Regards,
Ahnrah
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Baihuigau
Gallente The Scope
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Posted - 2008.10.14 18:17:00 -
[2288]
Man what can I say i havent used this feature much but its a definate plus knowing i can go away for a bit for whatever reason and have a long skill training,i have never complained ever about ccp but what makes me angry is the fact ccp says this is a bug not a feature what a load of fudge, and then to ninja fix the player guide to reflect their views pffft they remind me of the plunge protection team pumping up the stock market to blind everyone to the crash rofl, good thing my account is expiring in november this is just low.
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Seth Ruin
Minmatar Ominous Corp Ethereal Dawn
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Posted - 2008.10.14 18:17:00 -
[2289]
Originally by: Amarr Hyena hmm, the thread is gone when I wake up.
Originally by: CCP Wrangler Yes, we're trying to fix it but we'll need to have web take a look at it. It's still accessible through the other sticky though.
Stop with the conspiracy theories already >.<
-- (CCP Inconsistency)
Why cover it up? We KNOW it's all just about money |
Makkiel
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Posted - 2008.10.14 18:17:00 -
[2290]
This is just another unintended feature
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Spawn06
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Posted - 2008.10.14 18:17:00 -
[2291]
Edited by: Spawn06 on 14/10/2008 18:22:46 Edited by: Spawn06 on 14/10/2008 18:19:12 I dont see why CCP feel the need to apologise for this......if you need the reasoning explained then perhaps you should ask your mothers...
Most of you act shocked that CCP - a service provider - starts acting like one...if you dont have the money then put up with it and go play TF2 - why should you be able to sleep a char and not pay for the account while it trains an ubar skill. Then to complain when above mentioned service provider simply starts acting a bit more professional about how they manage thier accounts...hmm...yup we be spoilt here in eve |
Annaphera
Minmatar Super Green Industries
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Posted - 2008.10.14 18:18:00 -
[2292]
Originally by: yarrmarr
Originally by: Annaphera
Originally by: yarrmarr
Dude, wake up. a commercial company 'trying to be nice' will fail miserably. the company only has one goal; make profit and that's what they're doing here.
Thus the end of ghost training. So what is everyone so upset about?
Are you really that simplistic? I'll give it one more try to explain it. You are conveniently assuming that ghost training was a nice feat, aren't you? Maybe you should try and see it as an essential way of making sure that people who would otherwise have stopped playing would have an incentive to return after 1-2-3 etc months. Why do you think it would have made it to the official player guide as a feature?
I think it made it into the guide because that was how the game wound up working at the time, and perhaps they saw some advantage to leaving it there. Now that advantage is being overcome by a disadvantage, so away goes the unintended 'feature'. I think people are being overly simplistic in assuming that the ONLY (or even the MAIN) reason people return to Eve is because a skill will be finished. Like any MMO, many people seem to get burned out from time to time. I had that kind of relationship with UO, once upon a time, and with WoW. None of the other games have anything like ghost training, and yet people still return after a while. Why, do you suppose, if they don't get new toys as a reward for not paying their subs?
Originally by: yarrmarr The fact that is apparently is being abused (where's the proof?) sucks, but labelling it as something that has been a bug since day 1 and thereby lieing to your customers while hoping to get away with it is simply the most stupid thing possible. Add to that a flavor of very bad timing and the appearance of 'hey guys, you'll loose something you've had for 5 years in about two days and uhm... sucks to be you' and the result is what you have here. Very bad PR and angry customers.
Yeah, the timing sucks, but what would you have done with more advance notice? I'm betting some are angry that they didn't get enough warning to take advantage before it goes away. However, no matter when they did this, some would be ****ed at the timing, because they just let one lapse, were just about to, just added an account, etc. Even if CCP had waited six months and then announced a month ahead, some would be upset because they got an account at the last Power of 2 and wanted to ghost. So...what were they supposed to do? I'm also wondering: why are you and others automatically assume they are lying about an upswing in ghost training?
Originally by: yarrmarr Note; I'm not even talking about whether it's a good or a bad thing to remove it as such, just trying to make you understand that your point of view is very simplistic. It's not gonna bring in any additional revenue so from a commercial perspective they are doing something really wrong.
Nuff said.
I don't think my view is simplistic at all...I just think I was trying to be concise.
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Rouque Vanderbuilt
Nuts and Bolts
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Posted - 2008.10.14 18:18:00 -
[2293]
It looks like CCP doesnt like his own information blogs. ROFL.
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Simon DeTorqueville
Amarr
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Posted - 2008.10.14 18:20:00 -
[2294]
Originally by: Kalintos Tyl you can have my wardec for all i have your stuff trolling
So you, at least, are not leaving Eve because of this? Then I am not asking you for your stuff and thus, you are not my intended audience.
On the other hand, if you are leaving, can I have your stuff too?
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Alt Alt
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Posted - 2008.10.14 18:22:00 -
[2295]
lol at this,
conspiracy theory alert:
so i think ccp secretly just bought stock in the makers of jumpgate evolution and warhammer.
realizing their own game was on the slow road to nowhere, CCP enforces a rule which will surely drive much of their own consumer base to warhammer and jumpgate.
everyone check out warhammer's subscription numbers tommorrow morning, I know that is where the 45$ a month i spent on eve is going soon.
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Brigsby5987
Caldari 32nd Amarrian Imperial Navy Regiment.
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Posted - 2008.10.14 18:23:00 -
[2296]
if you dont pay, you dont play. period.
No one cares if your poor, or your gonna take your alts and cancel your account.
Either STFU or leave. Hopefully CCP understands that sometimes a general **** off attitude is good when dealing with the playerbase, as most of you complaining about them removing ghost training are being asshats about it. _______________________________________ Sig? where. There's no sig here. |
Muad' Dib
Gallente Beyond Divinity Inc
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Posted - 2008.10.14 18:24:00 -
[2297]
Edited by: Muad'' Dib on 14/10/2008 18:25:07
Originally by: Spawn06 Edited by: Spawn06 on 14/10/2008 18:19:12 I dont see why CCP feel the need to apologise for this......if you need the reasoning explained then perhaps you should ask your mothers...
Because if they behave like *******s while doing this - and many do understand the real reason behind this, they lose even more money on account of customers being ****ed off. If they have the right to be ****ed off or not is not doesn't matter, they still give their answer with their CC. It's called good PR, and CCP looks like is lacking it.
Perhaps your mommy should explain you that.
PS: Never used this 'feature', if you are wondering. --- I smack just for myself.
Your signature is too large. Please resize it to a maximum of 400 x 120 with the file size not exceeding 24000 bytes. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] - Mitnal |
Miriel Amarinth
Amarr Royal Amarr Institute
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Posted - 2008.10.14 18:24:00 -
[2298]
Originally by: Erimisha What you're failing to understand that that people like him probably never would have gotten a second account in the first place if not for Ghost Training. In that situation CCP actually GAINED 6 months of subscription from him.
You use the same logic as software companies when talking about how much they've lost to piracy. In that case they assume that everyone who pirated their software would have bought it. That is simply not true. So people like you and CCP think they "lost" 6 months of subscription due to 'ghost training' but in reality they got an additional 6 months of subs from him that they never would have gotten before.
This.
There's no way you can convince me that those people with 3+ accounts will permanently sub all of them to keep training. Some might, but I see the majority merging accounts, selling characters or letting their accounts lapse in the near future. In the end CCP will only lose out on revenue, not increase it.
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Sailon
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Posted - 2008.10.14 18:25:00 -
[2299]
Originally by: Brigsby5987 if you dont pay, you dont play. period.
No one cares if your poor, or your gonna take your alts and cancel your account.
Either STFU or leave. Hopefully CCP understands that sometimes a general **** off attitude is good when dealing with the playerbase, as most of you complaining about them removing ghost training are being asshats about it.
How it is good you want lesser pvp targets to shoot oh wait your carebear name tells it all.
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Spawn06
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Posted - 2008.10.14 18:25:00 -
[2300]
Originally by: Alt Alt lol at this,
conspiracy theory alert:
so i think ccp secretly just bought stock in the makers of jumpgate evolution and warhammer.
realizing their own game was on the slow road to nowhere, CCP enforces a rule which will surely drive much of their own consumer base to warhammer and jumpgate.
everyone check out warhammer's subscription numbers tommorrow morning, I know that is where the 45$ a month i spent on eve is going soon.
um...ciao...
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Kaesarr
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Posted - 2008.10.14 18:25:00 -
[2301]
Originally by: Kename Fin I joined EVE when they added a Mac client. It was one of the few modern MMO's with a Mac client [no comment about the quality of the client] and I was excited and thrilled. I mailed all my Mac using friends. I loved the EVE community and the fact that it seemed like CCP was interested in serving the game playing community in the process of selling and improving their game.
I am sad. I've only used ghost training for a couple of times. Both times were when I had to be out of the game for personal reasons but didn't want to fall behind. It WAS a feature. I've since subbed with for a year, but if I can find a good Mac MMO out there, I'm not sure I would be willing to pass it up for EVE. I'm sad that the community has lost an advocate for their favorite game with the passing of CCP. The shadow has fallen and we are under it.
I'm not an emo, a carebear or a pie rat, I'm just an EVE player who has lost her idealistic innocence about a game she loved.
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Speedie Tappaja
Minmatar Omega Fleet Enterprises Executive Outcomes
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Posted - 2008.10.14 18:25:00 -
[2302]
Great nerf. Couldnt be better timing. Thx for helping with the lag too!
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Wrathraker
Point of No Return
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Posted - 2008.10.14 18:26:00 -
[2303]
This is in response to what was posted by CCP t0rfifrans here http://myeve.eve-online.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&bid=592
Since beta and the days of Castor being able to train was touted by CCP as a feature and not a liability like it is now. This is what was said and quoted by CCP in the beginning that set your game apart from other games that were out there at the time. You said then, and I am looking through Google with a fine tooth comb to bust you on this, that this was a "FEATURE" and that it was something that was never going to be removed from the game.
In addition to that, I also stress that this gives the veteran players a HUGE boost while the new players will not receive the same treatment.
Also, if it was left in the game, IT WOULD STILL BE BALANCED! The ability to do this, and keep it in the game, keeps everyone on equal ground. By removing it, you change the very thing you are saying you are trying to fix.
AND...for the long time players like myself, that have multiple accounts, we have always been doing this, and plan the way to play the game based on what CCP says will be coming in the FUTURE developments of the game. Without CCP saying what is coming in the future, the players can not plan. By taking this away from the players, you just make it harder for us to play the game, make our logistics take even longer, make the game more like WORK and overall ruin the player experience.
This is total B***S*** CCP and you know it!
Think I am kidding? Look up my account info, see how many accounts I have, and see how many I have after you do this.
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Ronin 0031
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Posted - 2008.10.14 18:27:00 -
[2304]
Edited by: Ronin 0031 on 14/10/2008 22:23:42 Either way CCP... i see what is really going on here...... $$$ .... i run 3 accounts all active 75% of the year. now with this new "cash grab" of yours i will only have 1 account. Now you lose 66% of your income i was contributing. Go do the math and justify the loss in revenue. Good luck, with nerfs like this its only going down hill from here. BTW Amarr are broken!!
Quoted from the Player guide
Skills continue training even if you are logged off or if your account is inactive
http://www.eve-online.com/guide/en/g615.asp |
Soldur
Slacker Industries
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Posted - 2008.10.14 18:27:00 -
[2305]
Originally by: Erimisha
There's no way you can convince me that those people with 3+ accounts will permanently sub all of them to keep training. Some might, but I see the majority merging accounts, selling characters or letting their accounts lapse in the near future. In the end CCP will only lose out on revenue, not increase it.
nice idea ill do that with my 3 industry chars the have all skills trained so ill just put them on one account.
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Spawn06
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Posted - 2008.10.14 18:28:00 -
[2306]
Originally by: Muad' Dib Edited by: Muad'' Dib on 14/10/2008 18:25:07
Originally by: Spawn06 Edited by: Spawn06 on 14/10/2008 18:19:12 I dont see why CCP feel the need to apologise for this......if you need the reasoning explained then perhaps you should ask your mothers...
Because if they behave like *******s while doing this - and many do understand the real reason behind this, they lose even more money on account of customers being ****ed off. If they have the right to be ****ed off or not is not doesn't matter, they still give their answer with their CC. It's called good PR, and CCP looks like is lacking it.
Perhaps your mommy should explain you that.
PS: Never used this 'feature', if you are wondering.
first - your a lame attempt at paul atreides
second - your attempt to flame is laughable at best.
You fail to see the point - if you go to the shop and you ask them to lend you some milk, what they gonna say lil fella....and if you do it the way you seem to here...well you would prolly end up behind bars cause your a bit touched...
pay your account = char training
grow up peeps and just hurry up and go if your gonna...or i will go thru every thread and quote every time you have threatened the same lol!!!
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Kuolematon
Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United
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Posted - 2008.10.14 18:28:00 -
[2307]
Year ago CCP said that this is CHINESE server "function" and will NEVER hit TQ.
They lied!! LIEDDDDDDDDDDD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11111
"The Amarr are the tanking and ganking floating rods of goldcrap"
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Jocho
Caldari Warped Mining
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Posted - 2008.10.14 18:29:00 -
[2308]
Edited by: Jocho on 14/10/2008 18:51:06 Quote: from the Dev Blog: Ghost Training was an unintended feature Quote: Skills continue training even if you are logged off or if your account is inactive
The above quote was from the character training page http://www.eve-online.com/guide/en/g615.asp but lo-and-behold, CCP quickly edited that page.
I think the fact that when the change was first announced it was because: "this practice upsets the balance of the game, and capsuleers who actively put their time and energy into working on their characters will no longer be unfairly affected by those few who have not." and yet in the dev blog nothing of the sort is mentioned. This is purely to do with the credit crunch. The timing is so convienent as well as CCP changing their story and blatantly lying about the true reason for the change.
Ghost training gave an insentive for casual gamers to renew their subs. Without it they will go as well as many alts. Ghost training hurt no-one. What was the difference of doing BS 5 in Jita and logging on for an hour a day and ghosting it? Apart from a few subs difference, the feature kept many people who would have quit a long time ago.
I just feel sorry for the CCP workers who are going to be layed off in the coming month because of this sh***y decision.
As to all the people saying "pay of gtfo" it's your loss as well, less income means eve won't expand etc. Plus some of us have better things to be spending $200+ on. No one can honestly believe EvE is a game that is justified to charge that price, espcially since SP's are a time based levelling system, not a grind fest. Whereas with other MMORPGS you can pay the monthly sub then go all out grind crazy, you can't with Eve. Your told you will get roughly X amount of SP's for a price. Ghosting seemed to solve this issue by not making someone pay for waiting time. And not to mention, if ghosting is 'unfair' then how come I can buy a few time codes, sell the ingame and buy a 5 year old character? That's considerably more 'unfair'. Quit warping reality fanboys, you'd still play if they changed all the ships to pink elephants.
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Shigsy
Heretic Militia
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Posted - 2008.10.14 18:30:00 -
[2309]
Originally by: Kuolematon Year ago CCP said that this is CHINESE server "function" and will NEVER hit TQ.
They lied!! LIEDDDDDDDDDDD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11111
omg yeah forgot about that. Someone dig up that thread now
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Soldur
Slacker Industries
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Posted - 2008.10.14 18:31:00 -
[2310]
Originally by: Shigsy
Originally by: Kuolematon Year ago CCP said that this is CHINESE server "function" and will NEVER hit TQ.
They lied!! LIEDDDDDDDDDDD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11111
omg yeah forgot about that. Someone dig up that thread now
hurry before they find it first and delete it
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Hun Jakuza
Naughty By Nature
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Posted - 2008.10.14 18:31:00 -
[2311]
"Ghost Training was an unintended feature where unpaid accounts of EVE Online were able to continue training skills. "
LOL. I think i saw 5 years ago for CCP own hype because they said, this is the best feature of game. Why they did this ? Because they want some money, like as mmo competitors.
/patetic I want more skills with 24x time training and maybe i will get one skill under three months for $50.
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Muad' Dib
Gallente Beyond Divinity Inc
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Posted - 2008.10.14 18:32:00 -
[2312]
Edited by: Muad'' Dib on 14/10/2008 18:32:42
Originally by: Spawn06
Originally by: Muad' Dib Edited by: Muad'' Dib on 14/10/2008 18:25:07
Originally by: Spawn06 Edited by: Spawn06 on 14/10/2008 18:19:12 I dont see why CCP feel the need to apologise for this......if you need the reasoning explained then perhaps you should ask your mothers...
Because if they behave like *******s while doing this - and many do understand the real reason behind this, they lose even more money on account of customers being ****ed off. If they have the right to be ****ed off or not is not doesn't matter, they still give their answer with their CC. It's called good PR, and CCP looks like is lacking it.
Perhaps your mommy should explain you that.
PS: Never used this 'feature', if you are wondering.
first - your a lame attempt at paul atreides
second - your attempt to flame is laughable at best.
You fail to see the point - if you go to the shop and you ask them to lend you some milk, what they gonna say lil fella....and if you do it the way you seem to here...well you would prolly end up behind bars cause your a bit touched...
pay your account = char training
grow up peeps and just hurry up and go if your gonna...or i will go thru every thread and quote every time you have threatened the same lol!!!
I didn't name this char, i bought it 2 yrs ago, talk with the guy who made it in 2003 ... i didn't and it's name is actually spelled wrong. It wasn't an attempt to flame.
You need to find a better analogy, i simply do not see your point.
I have payed my accounts - 5 of them now, and never ghost trained. I'm gonna continue paying for them, but i also know some ppl who have chosen a different path. --- I smack just for myself.
Your signature is too large. Please resize it to a maximum of 400 x 120 with the file size not exceeding 24000 bytes. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] - Mitnal |
James Marshalll
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.10.14 18:32:00 -
[2313]
Originally by: Brigsby5987 if you dont pay, you dont play. period.
No one cares if your poor, or your gonna take your alts and cancel your account.
Either STFU or leave. Hopefully CCP understands that sometimes a general **** off attitude is good when dealing with the playerbase, as most of you complaining about them removing ghost training are being asshats about it.
if this is the case, then why are there still inactive accounts that can A) have market orders, B) Hold offices / pay for offices C) hold corps D) Have lab slots
People weren't "playing" the game ghost training, but the people who are doing the above listed sure were. Ghost training will not "hurt" balance in eve, in the last 4-5 years of it being active it never "hurt" anyone. While we are at it, since CCP likes to say this is a "Database" issue... then fine, delete all characters, and their assets that are offline for more then 6 months with out an active sub.
I mean why not make this fail train complete.
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Catherine Frasier
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Posted - 2008.10.14 18:32:00 -
[2314]
Originally by: Wrathraker Since beta and the days of Castor being able to train was touted by CCP as a feature and not a liability like it is now. This is what was said and quoted by CCP in the beginning that set your game apart from other games that were out there at the time.
Touted as a feature... where? "Said and quoted by CCP" that this set the game apart... where? Got links?
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IR Scoutar
Caldari State War Academy
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Posted - 2008.10.14 18:32:00 -
[2315]
Originally by: Brigsby5987 if you dont pay, you dont play. period.
No one cares if your poor, or your gonna take your alts and cancel your account.
Either STFU or leave. Hopefully CCP understands that sometimes a general **** off attitude is good when dealing with the playerbase, as most of you complaining about them removing ghost training are being asshats about it.
by that logic most people cheering for the removal are asshats aswell
seeing as there are about 10 people cheering and the rest u probably count to this section just dont give a damn im gona count 10 people (btw 90% of statistics are indeed made up) that tells me that 1 of them isnt an asshat and because im rounding up its 2 and you clearly fall into the category of the other 8 who are asshats ty for your time
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Annaphera
Minmatar Super Green Industries
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Posted - 2008.10.14 18:33:00 -
[2316]
Originally by: St Claus
Originally by: Annaphera
Originally by: St Claus
Originally by: Annaphera "Rights"? What "rights"?
Probaply not right word, but removing features and thus making game more expensive != good thing. And you really cant expect your customers to like it.
Well, if you can make assumptions about intent, so can I - this was never intended as a way for you to save money on your account, it was unintended and left in to act as a consolation for people who go on vacation or something and miss resubbing. Whatever word you use, you are speaking of it as if you are entitled to it. You aren't, and CCP never promised you you would have it.
Sorry, missed the part in training guide where it said that i can only use that "bug"/feature if i am on vacation.
And I missed the part where common sense tells me that I should be able to be rewarded for not paying for something. The highest levels of skill training are supposed to be something you have to wait for while working your way up in other aspects of the game, not something to shortcut to. People were taking advantage of an unintended loophole that CCP left in for other reasons, and thus ruined it for everyone.
Originally by: St Claus
Originally by: Annaphera
Originally by: St Claus
Originally by: Annaphera
So look at your argument. You say it would have been okay if it had been like that from the start. By that rationale, they can remove 60% of the ships in game, and not a soul should complain...titans certainly weren't there "from the start". Also, the game wouldn't be half of what it is now, because many of the first features have been replaced by new and (arguably in some cases) improved versions, or scrapped all together as no longer workable. Features change in an MMO, any MMO. Get used to it, or stop playing MMO's.
I know my english is bad, but i dont belive it's that bad. I didn't say that it would be ok if they had placed that feature 2 years ago and now removing it. Also, removing titans don't make this game more expensive, if you have multiple accounts.
But you were using duration the feature was in as justification for saying it can't be removed. How long it's been there, and since when, is absolutely meaningless. If you made the assumption that it would never change, that's your bad assumption, not CCP lying.
No i did not. I said that you can in good faith to expect to receive this service for free, becouse it is the way it used to be. And if changed, CCP cant expect us to be happy and believe "it was a bug"-BS.
Didn't say that CCP is lying becouse they change something. I did say that the reason they gave us is a lie.
Wow - "you can in good faith to expect to recieve this servoce for free, because that is the way it used to be"... That is just bad. I could put a bowl of candy on my desk, and let anyone take one; by your logic, if I for some reason decided to stop filling the bowl, everyone who had come to expect it would have the right to get ****ed and yell at me until I put the candy out again. That goes against all common sense, especially when we are talking about a paid subscription service!
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Catherine Frasier
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Posted - 2008.10.14 18:33:00 -
[2317]
Originally by: Kuolematon Year ago CCP said that this is CHINESE server "function" and will NEVER hit TQ.
Where did they say that?
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Elo69007
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Posted - 2008.10.14 18:33:00 -
[2318]
Originally by: Brigsby5987 if you dont pay, you dont play. period.
No one cares if your poor, or your gonna take your alts and cancel your account.
Either STFU or leave. Hopefully CCP understands that sometimes a general **** off attitude is good when dealing with the playerbase, as most of you complaining about them removing ghost training are being asshats about it.
Business 101 Idiot, the customer is always right. CCP is doing this because they want moar money. If majority of players - as noted in this thread - are unhappy with changes, and may even quit because of it, DONT DO IT. If ccp wants to run a succesfull business, they will realize the importance of happy customers - And hopefully not listen to ****bags like you, u ****ing ******ed ****
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Edmar
Ship Depot
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Posted - 2008.10.14 18:34:00 -
[2319]
I find it odd that anyone would leave EVE over this action. Was you seriously closing down accounts to take advantage of it that much? Or is the fotm now declaring how many accounts you will close in response to every game change.
I can kind of see how someone could feel it takes something away from them under certain cirumstances, such as having to go on military leave etc. So I think this action would be better received after a true skill queuing system was in place, since those people could opt to keep paying and getting skill training done. Also, people have mentioned that they sometimes give their buddys access to their accounts instead of closing account (which is bad because said buddy can strip it of assets etc) so a skill queue system could curb that some.
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Spawn06
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Posted - 2008.10.14 18:35:00 -
[2320]
Originally by: Muad' Dib Edited by: Muad'' Dib on 14/10/2008 18:32:42
Originally by: Spawn06
Originally by: Muad' Dib Edited by: Muad'' Dib on 14/10/2008 18:25:07
Originally by: Spawn06 Edited by: Spawn06 on 14/10/2008 18:19:12 I dont see why CCP feel the need to apologise for this......if you need the reasoning explained then perhaps you should ask your mothers...
Because if they behave like *******s while doing this - and many do understand the real reason behind this, they lose even more money on account of customers being ****ed off. If they have the right to be ****ed off or not is not doesn't matter, they still give their answer with their CC. It's called good PR, and CCP looks like is lacking it.
Perhaps your mommy should explain you that.
PS: Never used this 'feature', if you are wondering.
first - your a lame attempt at paul atreides
second - your attempt to flame is laughable at best.
You fail to see the point - if you go to the shop and you ask them to lend you some milk, what they gonna say lil fella....and if you do it the way you seem to here...well you would prolly end up behind bars cause your a bit touched...
pay your account = char training
grow up peeps and just hurry up and go if your gonna...or i will go thru every thread and quote every time you have threatened the same lol!!!
I didn't name this char, i bought it 2 yrs ago, talk with the guy who made it in 2003 ... i didn't and it's name is actually spelled wrong. It wasn't an attempt to flame.
You need to find a better analogy, i simply do not see your point.
I have payed my accounts - 5 of them now, and never ghost trained. I'm gonna continue paying for them, but i also know some ppl who have chosen a different path.
I do too - boo them - if i have to endure the grind then let CCP force everyone else too - if your alt does not like it then... can i have your stuff?
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LadyMaverick
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Posted - 2008.10.14 18:35:00 -
[2321]
Originally by: Alt Alt lol at this,
conspiracy theory alert:
so i think ccp secretly just bought stock in the makers of jumpgate evolution and warhammer.
realizing their own game was on the slow road to nowhere, CCP enforces a rule which will surely drive much of their own consumer base to warhammer and jumpgate.
everyone check out warhammer's subscription numbers tommorrow morning, I know that is where the 45$ a month i spent on eve is going soon.
I hope not! Looking forward to JGE but not under these tards
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ISIAM
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Posted - 2008.10.14 18:35:00 -
[2322]
Originally by: Jocho Quote: I just feel sorry for the CCP workers who are going to be layed off in the coming month because of this sh***y decision.
I give it a year and the whole thing will be done.
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Soldur
Slacker Industries
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Posted - 2008.10.14 18:36:00 -
[2323]
ELO time to consolidated accounts
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Muad' Dib
Gallente Beyond Divinity Inc
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Posted - 2008.10.14 18:37:00 -
[2324]
Originally by: Spawn06
Originally by: Muad' Dib Edited by: Muad'' Dib on 14/10/2008 18:32:42
Originally by: Spawn06
Originally by: Muad' Dib Edited by: Muad'' Dib on 14/10/2008 18:25:07
Originally by: Spawn06 Edited by: Spawn06 on 14/10/2008 18:19:12 I dont see why CCP feel the need to apologise for this......if you need the reasoning explained then perhaps you should ask your mothers...
Because if they behave like *******s while doing this - and many do understand the real reason behind this, they lose even more money on account of customers being ****ed off. If they have the right to be ****ed off or not is not doesn't matter, they still give their answer with their CC. It's called good PR, and CCP looks like is lacking it.
Perhaps your mommy should explain you that.
PS: Never used this 'feature', if you are wondering.
first - your a lame attempt at paul atreides
second - your attempt to flame is laughable at best.
You fail to see the point - if you go to the shop and you ask them to lend you some milk, what they gonna say lil fella....and if you do it the way you seem to here...well you would prolly end up behind bars cause your a bit touched...
pay your account = char training
grow up peeps and just hurry up and go if your gonna...or i will go thru every thread and quote every time you have threatened the same lol!!!
I didn't name this char, i bought it 2 yrs ago, talk with the guy who made it in 2003 ... i didn't and it's name is actually spelled wrong. It wasn't an attempt to flame.
You need to find a better analogy, i simply do not see your point.
I have payed my accounts - 5 of them now, and never ghost trained. I'm gonna continue paying for them, but i also know some ppl who have chosen a different path.
I do too - boo them - if i have to endure the grind then let CCP force everyone else too - if your alt does not like it then... can i have your stuff?
Are you trying to flame me ? It might be better to go more forward, the round-about way you are using now is not working. --- I smack just for myself.
Your signature is too large. Please resize it to a maximum of 400 x 120 with the file size not exceeding 24000 bytes. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] - Mitnal |
Kaesarr
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Posted - 2008.10.14 18:38:00 -
[2325]
remember ccp i cancel mi 2 ac****s
=
-30e
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Lag
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Posted - 2008.10.14 18:38:00 -
[2326]
Edited by: Lag on 14/10/2008 18:42:29
Quote: This change is complete crap. Why should I pay for a months time that my character will not be able to do anything?
I say that because I previously sold my 5 yr old character to make a "perfect" character capable of learning skills quicker.
Any competent player knows that the learning skills come first. Yes, I could go do level 1 missions with my uber 900k skillpoints. That's about as productive and worth-while as pickin my nose for an hour. If you like to do that, then good for you.
I'm not re-activating my account so I can pay for my character to sit while he trains the essential learning skills. I'm not re-activating my account so I can train other skills and actually do something in-game, while defeating my purpose of starting a new character.
Edit: To CCP, You should have fixed this shit 5 years ago if you didn't want it to happen. Surely it would have been something that "experienced" game developers knew would happen.
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Catherine Frasier
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Posted - 2008.10.14 18:39:00 -
[2327]
Originally by: Elo69007 Business 101 Idiot, the customer is always right.
If you really believe that silly slogan is a blanket statement of fact then you've clearly never actually taken Biz 101. (To say nothing of actually running a business.)
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lenophie
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Posted - 2008.10.14 18:39:00 -
[2328]
Number of account : -1
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Stenhuggare Persson
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Posted - 2008.10.14 18:39:00 -
[2329]
This change doesn't affect me directly, but I know it will prove to be a big mistake in the long run. EvE had a great competative edge towards most other MMOs in the fact that you could leave the game for a few months, come back and have your character not as you left it, but better. This is the sole reason why alot of players always come back to EvE in the end, even if there are hundreds of other possible candidates to steal their gaming time. The game is boring when you leave it because there's nothing interesting to do, but when you come back you can fly a new ship. If you have to pay for all these weeks or months waiting for that one skill, it is simply not worth the wait. I have four real-life friends who agree, and they will never play Eve again.
You will see a short-term increase in subscriptions.
In the long run you will lose a great many subscriptions.
The MMO industry is hugely competative, and you just lost an edge in that competition. The way you put out the news was well done, saying it was for the loyal, paying customers that you did it. I am one of those loyal customers (at the moment), so I do not object from a personal standpoint. But for your own sake I strongly suggest you reconsider. If you don't understand my argument now, you will later.
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Kuolematon
Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United
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Posted - 2008.10.14 18:40:00 -
[2330]
Originally by: Catherine Frasier
Originally by: Kuolematon Year ago CCP said that this is CHINESE server "function" and will NEVER hit TQ.
Where did they say that?
I'm trying to find it but eve-search is being ******ed. Gimme a second.
"The Amarr are the tanking and ganking floating rods of goldcrap"
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Sal Alo
Minmatar Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2008.10.14 18:41:00 -
[2331]
Originally by: Kuolematon Year ago CCP said that this is CHINESE server "function" and will NEVER hit TQ.
They lied!! LIEDDDDDDDDDDD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11111
That's the truth.
You sux CCP, ghost training =/= playing so now we have 60days skills that cost 30Ç to be learnt.
itemshop, anyone?
ps:
Quoted from the Player guide
Skills continue training even if you are logged off or if your account is inactive
http://www.eve-online.com/guide/en/g615.asp
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Spawn06
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Posted - 2008.10.14 18:42:00 -
[2332]
This is soooo funneh...lolol...
Soooo cause you train bs5 you cant "do anything" so you would prefer to not have to pay for your account cause like...its training and that is boring...and like you cant do missions or pew in low sec or like anything when ur training like bs5...so like why pay for that yeh...what rubbish
anything you say beyond this point to the contrary is rubbish cause spawny said it - seriously GOOOOOOO stop saying it cancel right NOW!!! sif your gonna !@#@@!
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BIind
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Posted - 2008.10.14 18:43:00 -
[2333]
Originally by: Shigsy
Originally by: Kuolematon Year ago CCP said that this is CHINESE server "function" and will NEVER hit TQ.
They lied!! LIEDDDDDDDDDDD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11111
omg yeah forgot about that. Someone dig up that thread now
this, this, this.
Nothing about it never being changed ever tho.
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Erimisha
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.10.14 18:44:00 -
[2334]
Originally by: Edmar I find it odd that anyone would leave EVE over this action. Was you seriously closing down accounts to take advantage of it that much? Or is the fotm now declaring how many accounts you will close in response to every game change.
I don't find it odd. MMO fans are pretty loyal and some of the most hardcore fanboys around.
This whole thing isn't so much that a simple game mechanic being changed. It is more about how CCP told us, their reasonings (database lag, unfair advantages it created, it is a 'bug', etc) and then their complete and utter refusal to acknowlege the playerbase's anger over the above. Instead of actually acknowleging our anger they are seemingly intent on hiding it. Multiple locked threads with a dev redirect to anther locked thread which redirects to another locked thread, a thread that simply 'disappeared' (When was the last time that ever happened?) and now a 3rd thread on the matter..
Combine that with the SAME EXACT treatment during the 'other' fiasco and even the most loyal customers will start to feel betrayed. And when a loyal fan feels betrayed they usually take the same level of energy that they poured into their game/favorite publisher and turn it against their game/favorite publisher.
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Derdre Esme
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Posted - 2008.10.14 18:45:00 -
[2335]
and does something similar is planned for "ghost trading" ?
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Spawn06
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Posted - 2008.10.14 18:46:00 -
[2336]
cookie anyone? emo hug?
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TheG2
Gallente Dirty Rotten Scoundrels
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Posted - 2008.10.14 18:47:00 -
[2337]
Originally by: BIind
this, this, this.
Nothing about it never being changed ever tho.
No mention of this ever being a bug either though. It's an obvious money grab attempt at CCP that is utterly destroying player confidence and respect for the company.
I've canceled and alt account, and unless CCP gets back on track and does something worthwhile before my current subscription expires, I'll be leaving EVE for another MMO.
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Soldur
Slacker Industries
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Posted - 2008.10.14 18:47:00 -
[2338]
Edited by: Soldur on 14/10/2008 18:49:22
Originally by: CCP Jiekon
Hi folks.
I just want to let you know that skill training WILL continue while the account is inactive. I had picked this up wrong when i was speaking to Wrangler before and i mistakenly told him that skills stop training when accounts go inactive, this is why it was included in the patch notes and it's entirely my fault.
This was a mistake on my part and the patch notes will be changed and that line removed as soon as possible.
Apologies for the misunderstandings.
Posted - 2006.12.26 19:37:00
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Amarr Hyena
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Posted - 2008.10.14 18:48:00 -
[2339]
Im sure its been said a hundred times, but, fix the rediculous skill training times then you wouldent be having this problem to begin with!
and...because im a scavenger...*sigh*...can I have your stuff?
------- ghost training Threadnaught V. Skills continue training even if you are logged off or if your account is inactive. |
Spawn06
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Posted - 2008.10.14 18:48:00 -
[2340]
Originally by: TheG2
Originally by: BIind
this, this, this.
Nothing about it never being changed ever tho.
No mention of this ever being a bug either though. It's an obvious money grab attempt at CCP that is utterly destroying player confidence and respect for the company.
I've canceled and alt account, and unless CCP gets back on track and does something worthwhile before my current subscription expires, I'll be leaving EVE for another MMO.
ciao bella
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Guillame Herschel
Gallente Buffalo Soldiers
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Posted - 2008.10.14 18:49:00 -
[2341]
Edited by: Guillame Herschel on 14/10/2008 18:52:21 OK, my two cents: this account I'm logged onto runs out a week after the elimination of "ghost training." I was going to take a break from EVE and set Wing Command V before the subscription expires, so I have the prereq to train Fleet Command when I come back. I had done before on a previous break from EVE back in 2004. A friend of mine I introduced to EVE did it too, when he lost his job and couldn't pay the sub for a couple months.
Since that's being taken away, I have nothing to look forward to upon my return, so probably won't. Not that any one cares, but as I said, it's my two cents here.
Adios.
-- The Theorem Theorem: If If, Then Then --
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Furious Hawk
Caldari Farlight Council
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Posted - 2008.10.14 18:49:00 -
[2342]
I congratulate CCP on the removal of this feature/bug/exploit/trick. -------------------------------------------------- Everyone is entitled to my opinion. |
Spawn06
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Posted - 2008.10.14 18:50:00 -
[2343]
Originally by: Soldur Edited by: Soldur on 14/10/2008 18:49:22
Originally by: CCP Jiekon
Hi folks.
I just want to let you know that skill training WILL continue while the account is inactive. I had picked this up wrong when i was speaking to Wrangler before and i mistakenly told him that skills stop training when accounts go inactive, this is why it was included in the patch notes and it's entirely my fault.
This was a mistake on my part and the patch notes will be changed and that line removed as soon as possible.
Apologies for the misunderstandings.
Posted - 2006.12.26 19:37:00
so they still giving you enough time to pay your bills then
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Elo69007
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Posted - 2008.10.14 18:50:00 -
[2344]
Originally by: Soldur ELO time to consolidated accounts
Hells yeah, Im gtfo here, ccp is going under and they gonna take my credit card details wif em. RUNZ
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Xultanis
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Posted - 2008.10.14 18:50:00 -
[2345]
Originally by: Kuolematon
Originally by: Catherine Frasier
Originally by: Kuolematon Year ago CCP said that this is CHINESE server "function" and will NEVER hit TQ.
Where did they say that?
I'm trying to find it but eve-search is being ******ed. Gimme a second.
I remember them saying that it was never going to hit TQ also when they talked about it. Their was an outcry for a new skill ques. They then told the community that everything was staying the same and that it would never hit TQ and if they did do a skill ques then they would take away ghost training but since they aren't removing it then a new system was not required.
I also have something to say to everyone who says "Its not fair when someone trains for something when they aren't paying and blah blah" Well how is it fair that you are more stable financially to play the game? How is it fair that you have little to no responsibilities to play the game? People shit isn't fair but we try to give everyone a fighting chance. How many students play this game just because it fits into their schedule and come exam time when they put their subscriptions on hold to study (while training) are happy to come back to a new toy that they are have access to?
The ghost training helped EVERYONE in this game. People who have families, jobs, or weak source of income. They could at least believe that if they took a break to get things back together or just to take a breather from the game, that they could and it wouldn't be a problem.
From a business stand point that Ghost training was the greatest feature to this game since it kept people coming back. That's what you want in any business, is for people to come back. Grocery stores, gas stations, shit even countries whose main source of income was tourism wants people to COME BACK.
The whole WAAHHHH i actually paid for the whole 2 months i spent training whatever to level 5. Well again congrats that your life is better off then some of the other pilots of this game.
Bring it back and for the love of god be more honest about your decisions and seriously Ive heard that they switched out dev teams since all this new "features" were implemented....if so...then bring back the old team because they knew what this game was about.
Thats my 2 isk.
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SkwisgaarSkwigelf
C.R.M Productions
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Posted - 2008.10.14 18:50:00 -
[2346]
Originally by: Triksterism
Originally by: Derdre Esme and does something similar is planned for "ghost trading" ?
http://www.isdsgn.com/karlimages/ghostrideyourwhip.jpg
ghosttrain the whip baby. I been waiting for this :D
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Zanquis
Caldari Universal Exports FOUNDATI0N
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Posted - 2008.10.14 18:51:00 -
[2347]
I am outraged by this move by CCP and its aggravated by the fact the account page is offline, and the fact they lied by telling us this was a bug for 5 years when they clearly mentioned it in their guide and it was common knowledge. A bug doesn't take 5 years to fix, period. Don't lie to me and tell me I was exploiting every time I took a break and got a long skill train out of the way while I did so.
I would not be object to this if I didn't disagree so greatly with the concept of having players pay to not progress for extended periods of time. The simple fact you have skills which can take an entire to multiple subscription periods to complete and in the whole time your character gets no actual progression is absurd. It also ****es me off that for rank 4+ skills such as Battleship IV to V (rank 5) it can take 30 days to trian, and that means I am effectively paying $15 to trian battleships from IV to V. That is unacceptable to me and while I can and do play the game in that time, I like to have some progression and while I am ok with working for it, having it transverse one or more subscription periods makes me cry fowl.
Now before this change I delt with my objections because when I took a break from EvE to play something else or for RL reasons I would simply leave a long skill train while I was gone. This actually worked to CCP's benefit because a big hurdle was jumped while I was gone and I would get excited to come back to the game and explore the new opportunities it gave me which could take months.
To say it allowed people to build characters with an inactive account is a half truth. Sure if you repeat ghost training on a careful schedule you would be able to build a character. Though for this to be real effective you needed to choose a long skill for the break, as you wouldn't be able to change training if that skill training ended during your period of inactivity. So yes it was something which could be abused, but I would say the majority of us used it in the manner which I described and it was more a lure back to the game. If your seeing a huge spike to its use I would be this comes from your use of the "Power of Two" deals where you encouraged players to have multiple accounts. If you have multiple accounts you are more likely to play one while the other trains a dreadfully long skill and rotate. If this is your problem, perhaps you should find an alternate way of dealing with it in a way which doesn't upset customers who are willing to pay $30/mo+ for your game.
In any case I know this will fall on def ears at CCP and so I have decided to vote with my wallet.
As soon as they get that bloody account page online, I am canceling both my accounts which are currently active. Will I return? I do not know, I do not like to be lied to. This is a cash grab, and I resent you calling this a bug and implying I am an exploiter for using something you put in your god damn player guide. ---------------------------------------------- EvE Personality Test
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Arthmandar Valikari
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.10.14 18:52:00 -
[2348]
So... I've been reading this thread for giggles, and I wonder...
How many people here think that ghost training and offline training are the same thing?
I think it is a nontrivial number.
Anyone who quits due to that confusion... is a tribute to CCP mishandling this. :S
Note: ghost training is something different from offline training.
Quote: I for one welcome our new centrifuge generated superchicken overlords. -- Delerium of Disorder
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Catherine Frasier
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Posted - 2008.10.14 18:54:00 -
[2349]
Originally by: Xultanis I remember them saying that it was never going to hit TQ also when they talked about it.
You know how it works: Proof or...
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James Marshalll
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.10.14 18:55:00 -
[2350]
Originally by: Zanquis
As soon as they get that bloody account page online, I am canceling both my accounts which are currently active. Will I return? I do not know, I do not like to be lied to. This is a cash grab, and I resent you calling this a bug and implying I am an exploiter for using something you put in your god damn player guide.
its back up I just canceled my accounts fine.
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Guillame Herschel
Gallente Buffalo Soldiers
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Posted - 2008.10.14 18:55:00 -
[2351]
Edited by: Guillame Herschel on 14/10/2008 18:55:29
Quote: Note: ghost training is something different from offline training.
We get it. -- The Theorem Theorem: If If, Then Then --
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Catherine Frasier
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Posted - 2008.10.14 18:55:00 -
[2352]
Originally by: Arthmandar Valikari How many people here think that ghost training and offline training are the same thing?
I think it is a nontrivial number.
...
You know... you might be right. That would certainly explain some of the exploding-head reactions.
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Julius Rigel
House Rigel
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Posted - 2008.10.14 18:58:00 -
[2353]
This thread exists solely and entirely for my entertainment. I thank you all for helping me laugh.
Frigate racing is fast and fun! |
Xultanis
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Posted - 2008.10.14 18:58:00 -
[2354]
The proof was those links just couple of posts above this one. Its not word for word and finding the exact one will take time but there you go right there. Those links should make you happy enough
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Kaesarr
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Posted - 2008.10.14 18:58:00 -
[2355]
[soz for my inglish]
Mi motivations for cancel mi two accounts.. last 2 years play and payment with euro..
1¦- This threat and this nerf 2¦- Nija edits by gm¦s 3¦- Continuate nerfing pvp 4¦- More Makro farmer¦s.. and not ban this.. 5¦- $ politics 6¦- CCp Continuate killing pirate rolling 7¦- The nano-nerfinf is bad for all type rolling pvp
and more and more..LAG!
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Penel0pe
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Posted - 2008.10.14 18:58:00 -
[2356]
Looks like CCP recently invested in Lehman Brothers shares ^^
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The Ubernomicon
Eight year old girls GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.10.14 18:59:00 -
[2357]
I just called David Fialkow and left a message expressing discontent with the direction CCP has been taking in recent months. I made it clear that CCP is no longer offering a service that is worth paying for and that the disconnect entirely due things CCP are and are not doing.
I would post a list of CCP's Board of Directors along with their phone numbers, but I would probably be banned for posting public information.
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Carsidava
Ars ex Discordia GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.10.14 18:59:00 -
[2358]
Seventy-seven pages and no response from CCP. We're being treated like mushrooms: kept in the dark and fed bullshit. I'm going to post this again, fully realizing that CCP is ignoring us and just going to go blindly ahead with this ridiculous plan.
Nope, sorry. This doesn't wash.
If you disable skill training for inactive accounts, why aren't you also disabling market orders from inactive accounts? Why aren't you also disabling RP accumulation from inactive accounts? Why aren't you disabling dividend payouts to inactive accounts?
Why are only skill points being hit?
Sorry CCP, this is an entirely unsatisfactory answer. |
Lothendra
Gallente
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 18:59:00 -
[2359]
Edited by: Lothendra on 14/10/2008 18:59:38 Two ideas:
1: Skill will train only for a maximum of 30 days after expiration of account
2: "Ghost Training" will only work until your character has reached a set amount of skill points.
|
James Marshalll
Gallente
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 18:59:00 -
[2360]
Edited by: James Marshalll on 14/10/2008 19:02:01
Originally by: Catherine Frasier
Originally by: Arthmandar Valikari How many people here think that ghost training and offline training are the same thing?
I think it is a nontrivial number.
...
You know... you might be right. That would certainly explain some of the exploding-head reactions.
Hi CCPalt01,
I would wager that 99.9% of the people here know exactly what "offline" training is compared to "ghost" training. What you employees of CCP and Fanboi(or girls) are not getting is that its not about the ability just being removed. The way its handled, the fact that they lied about why, the fact that you can still market order/hold lab slots/offices, gain RP, receive payouts from investments (shares etc) which DO affect others is why people are so ****ed off.
They are ****ed because there is huge implications to this change, that it will affect a lot of players in ways that isn't directly just because they are losing "ghost training"
|
|
Lothendra
Gallente
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 19:03:00 -
[2361]
Oh, and for the record, EVE Developers:
I let my account lapse now and then because I am tired or fed up of EVE. The only reason I come back is because the long skill that was ghost-training finally finishes and gives me something new to play with, a new ship or whatever, and then i'm happy again.
|
Franconian Eagle
Core Element
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 19:03:00 -
[2362]
So I opened the eve-o website this morning, as I do every day while at work, and read "Ghost Training to be Removed". At first I didn't get what this was about, so I followed the link and read it. Two thoughts popped into my mind after that.
Number one: "omg, what a stupid idea"
Number two: "the thread about this is going to be epic"
And I was right. This thread kept me entertained throughout this boring day. Thank you, CCP. It was an epic troll.
|
oilio
Caldari State War Academy
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 19:04:00 -
[2363]
This sucks.
I am cancelling both subscriptions right now (or would be, if I could get to my account details - seems to have seized up).
In future - if I decide to play at all - I will use timecards. No way am I having CCP automatically billing me when they pull stuff like this.
The removal of this "bug" (HA! what bullshit!) is bad enough, but the "we're doing it for balance" crap, or the "this was never intended" crap is just downright offensive.
So, they launch POWER OF TWO, and then they pull this straight after. They're trying to cash in fast, and at the same time they're making out that this is all in the name of BALANCE?????
CCP make me sick. I hope they go bankrupt fast.
...and no, I have never ghost trained, but that's not the point. They're screwing us and they're trying to bullshit us that they're not screwing us. |
Devilish Ledoux
Caldari Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 19:04:00 -
[2364]
I can only speak for myself on this, but the removal of ghost training won't make me any less likely to suspend my accounts. Sometimes, you just need to take a break from Eve. It will, however, mean that the next time I need a break from Eve, I will be less likely to come back. Having some really handy skill trained to Level V has always been a nice 'welcome back' present. In addition, having Evemon tell me that it's done has almost always been like an alarm clock for the end of my most recent Eve Break. "Hey, Gallente Battleship V just finished. You're not training anything right now, dude. Isn't it time to come back already?" "You know, Evemon, you make a good point. Now WOULD be a good time to resubscribe."
Anyway, the moral of the story is that this seems like a dumb move that will only make people with lapsed accounts less likely to resubscribe at a later date. _
Your signature is too large. Please resize it to a maximum of 400 x 120 with the file size not exceeding 24000 bytes. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] - Mitnal |
Catherine Frasier
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 19:05:00 -
[2365]
Originally by: Xultanis The proof was those links just couple of posts above this one. Its not word for word and finding the exact one will take time but there you go right there. Those links should make you happy enough
Nope, I don't see it, you're gonna have to be specific.
(C'mon, how hard is it to cut'n'paste?)
|
Julius Rigel
House Rigel
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 19:05:00 -
[2366]
Originally by: Lothendra Oh, and for the record, EVE Developers:
I let my account lapse now and then because I am tired or fed up of EVE. The only reason I come back is because the long skill that was ghost-training finally finishes and gives me something new to play with, a new ship or whatever, and then i'm happy again.
There's already such a feature! It has a limit of 800 000 skill points.
Frigate racing is fast and fun! |
Hitman 001
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 19:05:00 -
[2367]
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=896971&page=2
this still doesent make a diference to me, that CCP doesent respond , and a lot af issues apeard today.
conspiracy? nah, no way.
|
zigman123
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 19:05:00 -
[2368]
ummm I dont know who runs the numbers at ccp but just roughly counting how many people are quitting over this and mind you I stopped counting at 100 ccp must be rich cause they just lost over few Grand a month just off the 1st few pages. Good way to get money ccp. We are talking per 100 $1499 a month not to mention alot of the 100 players have more than one account. Now im no math major but I did study economics to a point. ARE YOU NUTS
no matter what -1 for me and I might not re-up this one when it runs out
Good luck CCP. And to everyone that compares this to SOE is right on the MONEY
|
Ar'tee
DarkStar 1 GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 19:06:00 -
[2369]
Originally by: CCP Fallout
Because this thread is specifically for providing a link to the thread while we look into why it's not properly appearing on the index and is not meant for discussion about the ghost training change, which is going into effect Wednesday, I am closing this thread.
Perfect censorship execution, voting A++! Even Soviet Russia couldn't have come up with a better way to essentially make an entire discussion completely invisible without downright lotka'ing it, I'd wager. This is so much more subtle! It will make people slightly less angry, yet keeps this entire discussion invisible for most, thus making whatever is said here that much easier to ignore.
Way to go my good sirs, I couldn't have done better.
|
Lothendra
Gallente
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 19:06:00 -
[2370]
Originally by: Julius Rigel
Originally by: Lothendra Oh, and for the record, EVE Developers:
I let my account lapse now and then because I am tired or fed up of EVE. The only reason I come back is because the long skill that was ghost-training finally finishes and gives me something new to play with, a new ship or whatever, and then i'm happy again.
There's already such a feature! It has a limit of 800 000 skill points.
Did you mean to reply to my other post? Or is this a sign of the forums finally melting down?
|
|
St Claus
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 19:07:00 -
[2371]
Originally by: Annaphera The highest levels of skill training are supposed to be something you have to wait for while working your way up in other aspects of the game, not something to shortcut to.
This explanes why there was this "ghost training"-feature?
Originally by: Annaphera I could put a bowl of candy on my desk, and let anyone take one; by your logic, if I for some reason decided to stop filling the bowl, everyone who had come to expect it would have the right to get ****ed and yell at me until I put the candy out again. That goes against all common sense, especially when we are talking about a paid subscription service!
Ain't that a shitty example. If you really don't understand why, i don't have anything else to say as i finally believe that you are a troll.
|
Julius Rigel
House Rigel
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 19:08:00 -
[2372]
Originally by: Lothendra
Originally by: Julius Rigel
Originally by: Lothendra Oh, and for the record, EVE Developers:
I let my account lapse now and then because I am tired or fed up of EVE. The only reason I come back is because the long skill that was ghost-training finally finishes and gives me something new to play with, a new ship or whatever, and then i'm happy again.
There's already such a feature! It has a limit of 800 000 skill points.
Did you mean to reply to my other post? Or is this a sign of the forums finally melting down?
I meant to, I'm fairly certain I did...
Frigate racing is fast and fun! |
Catherine Frasier
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 19:09:00 -
[2373]
Originally by: zigman123 ummm I dont know who runs the numbers at ccp but just roughly counting how many people are quitting over this...
Well it's possible that they don't actually believe all the emorage forumspam.
Besides, throwing a hissy-fit and stopping your account isn't terribly final. If you want to impress me then transfer all your stuff to me, delete the characters and then cancel the account.
|
Amarr Hyena
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 19:10:00 -
[2374]
Edited by: Amarr Hyena on 14/10/2008 19:11:51 When this is all over can you assemble the Threadnaught and send it to my hanger?
Thanks CCP,
-A.H. ------- ghost training Threadnaught V. Skills continue training even if you are logged off or if your account is inactive. |
StealthGerbils
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 19:11:00 -
[2375]
CCP IS ******ED
quote this if your down
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Gedhay
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 19:11:00 -
[2376]
Originally by: Spawn06 This is soooo funneh...lolol...
Soooo cause you train bs5 you cant "do anything" so you would prefer to not have to pay for your account cause like...its training and that is boring...and like you cant do missions or pew in low sec or like anything when ur training like bs5...so like why pay for that yeh...what rubbish
anything you say beyond this point to the contrary is rubbish cause spawny said it - seriously GOOOOOOO stop saying it cancel right NOW!!! sif your gonna !@#@@!
yeah, ur ******ed and it's no poit in explain to u what's realy about it
|
Catherine Frasier
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 19:11:00 -
[2377]
Originally by: St Claus Ain't that a shitty example. If you really don't understand why, i don't have anything else to say as i finally believe that you are a troll.
Translation: "You're wrong. I can't explain how or why, but you're just wrong. Oh, and you're a big meanie-boots troll too. There, I won."
|
Kaesarr
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 19:11:00 -
[2378]
remenber ccp
i cancel my two ac****¦s
and in we corp vt say more cancel¦s accounts..
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Julius Rigel
House Rigel
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 19:12:00 -
[2379]
Originally by: Catherine Frasier
Originally by: zigman123 ummm I dont know who runs the numbers at ccp but just roughly counting how many people are quitting over this...
Well it's possible that they don't actually believe all the emorage forumspam.
Besides, throwing a hissy-fit and stopping your account isn't terribly final. If you want to impress me then transfer all your stuff to me, delete the characters and then cancel the account.
(Is this quoting thing working now?)
I'm fairly certain you intended to instruct him to send his stuff to ME, not you.
Frigate racing is fast and fun! |
RVWinkle
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 19:14:00 -
[2380]
I suppose this post will be lost in the flood of other posts but I just wanted to add another disapproving vote. I haven't really played this game for two years. The only reason I subscribed every other month for the past two years was because of the ghost training. I know it's stupid but that's how I liked to play. Now that this is no longer a feature I cannot justify resubscribing.
|
|
Julius Rigel
House Rigel
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 19:15:00 -
[2381]
Originally by: RVWinkle Now that this is no longer a feature I cannot justify resubscribing.
Apparently you can, since you're still subscribed...
Frigate racing is fast and fun! |
Peter VonThal
Raygun Technologies
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 19:16:00 -
[2382]
Originally by: Catherine Frasier
Originally by: Xultanis The proof was those links just couple of posts above this one. Its not word for word and finding the exact one will take time but there you go right there. Those links should make you happy enough
Nope, I don't see it, you're gonna have to be specific.
(C'mon, how hard is it to cut'n'paste?)
"i made the mistake of telling Wrangler they stopped training on Tranquility when subsctiptions lapsed, this lead to much confusion and me being whipped (which i have to admit, i enjoyed very much) But i was mistaken, it's only applicable to the Serenity server."
"I just want to let you know that skill training WILL continue while the account is inactive. I had picked this up wrong when i was speaking to Wrangler before and i mistakenly told him that skills stop training when accounts go inactive, this is why it was included in the patch notes and it's entirely my fault."
|
Zarest
Space Oddysey Pupule 'Ohana
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 19:16:00 -
[2383]
I will not be coming back after my next break if you disable ghost training..... So that's one, two year subscriber gone... Good Job CCP I am sure you will make millions off of this.
|
Georn
VIRTUAL LIFE VANGUARD Intrepid Crossing
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 19:17:00 -
[2384]
I just thought.. That would be something for the CSM!
Or at least for the campaigns... Vote for "x" and "x" un-nerfs ghosttraining! ____________ even Carebears have teeth |
Deadly Hobbitses
Caldari State War Academy
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 19:17:00 -
[2385]
Edited by: Deadly Hobbitses on 14/10/2008 19:20:43 CCP Wrangler: The only avenue left for CCP to regain any amount of credibility regarding this issue is to implement a skill training queue. ONLY this would provide adequate justification for these drastic measures as the ability to queue up multiple skills to train while you do not pay would be much more of an advantage of note than the current ability to have whatever skill is currently training when your subscription lapses complete.
Edit: On second thought, I'll add a threat as well. Should you fail to implement a skill queue in short order and post a dev blog concerning such in even shorter order, my hairy footed brethren and I shall take the ring and throw it back into the fire from whence it came! You have been warned.
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Lag
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 19:17:00 -
[2386]
Subscription canceled (Ironic that it was supposed to renew on 10/17).
|
Julius Rigel
House Rigel
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 19:18:00 -
[2387]
Edited by: Julius Rigel on 14/10/2008 19:22:11
Originally by: Zarest I will not be coming back after my next break if you disable ghost training..... So that's one, two year subscriber gone... Good Job CCP I am sure you will make millions off of this.
Originally by: Lag Subscription canceled (Ironic that it was supposed to renew on 10/17).
Originally by: Trumpoll Now there is one less reason to come back to Eve Online.
Originally by: Frances Ducoir there goes my eve subscription and my 2 accounts.
Your stuff... must... have.
Frigate racing is fast and fun! |
ViolenTUK
Gallente Vindicated Exiles
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 19:18:00 -
[2388]
This is the worst most appalling and ghastly idea I have seen CCP implement so abruptly in the time I have spent with this game.
There is no justifiable reason to implement this idea now. For CCP to cover it up with the rouge that ôGhostö training is an exploit is an insult. ôGhostö training has been and advertised feature, which has been a deciding factor for many to subscribe to an account. I am simply not interested in the explanation that it was an unintentional bug, which has been used by players. This Feature, which CCP has advertised, has been used for 5 years now and it is deplorable to suddenly withdraw it with virtually no warning.
We will see whether CCP have made a bad move by noting the active subscriptions over the forthcoming months.
www.eve-players.com |
Trumpoll
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 19:19:00 -
[2389]
I like to bounce from MMO to MMO, from WoW to Eve to LOTRO, etc etc. So I spend no more than a month, 2 months tops, in a MMO at a time. What I really liked about Eve Online is that the downtime between playing I was able to keep improving my character. I could stop playing for 3 or 4 months and come back to a character that was better than when I left it. Ghost training wasn't the only thing keeping me coming back to Eve Online, but it was something that helped in the decision to come back. Now there is one less reason to come back to Eve Online.
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BIind
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 19:19:00 -
[2390]
Originally by: Deadly Hobbitses CCP Wrangler: The only avenue left for CCP to regain any amount of credibility regarding this issue is to implement a skill training queue. ONLY this would provide adequate justification for these drastic measures as the ability to queue up multiple skills to train while you do not pay would be much more of an advantage of note than the current ability to have whatever skill is currently training when your subscription lapses complete.
link please
|
|
St Claus
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 19:19:00 -
[2391]
Originally by: Catherine Frasier
Originally by: St Claus Ain't that a shitty example. If you really don't understand why, i don't have anything else to say as i finally believe that you are a troll.
Translation: "You're wrong. I can't explain how or why, but you're just wrong. Oh, and you're a big meanie-boots troll too. There, I won."
Yeah, becouse giving candy for free equals with feature that gives some people (one more) reason to pay for multiple accounts.
There, happy?
|
Captain Kelden
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 19:19:00 -
[2392]
Hello,
While I understand and accept the reasons CCP have provided for disabling Ghost Training, I can also see things from the other viewpoint. Would it be possible for CCP to compromise on this to try and keep Ghost Trainers happy?
Would CCP consider allowing an inactive account to Ghost Train for a maximum of two months of every year? So for example if the account is inactive for six months out of every twelve, ghost training would only work for two of those inactive months before being disabled on that account until the next year.
I can't say I've knowingly used Ghost Training except for when I forgot my subscription was about to expire and it's lapsed. It was good to know that my skill would train until I could get a new GTC. Perhaps an idea would be to allow a Ghost Training grace period? Allow the skills to train for 7 days after the account is becomes inactive.
The flame threads going on at the moment are not helping much, so please keep this thread flame free. The ideas above may not be possible, but hopefully they will get someone thinking.
Thanks!
|
Frances Ducoir
Gallente Bounty Hunter - Dark Legion
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 19:20:00 -
[2393]
Edited by: Frances Ducoir on 14/10/2008 19:39:42 there goes my eve subscription and my 2 accounts.
the possibility of progressing while not online and even while the account is inactive, was one of the reasons i still played eve.
i dont have much time IRL, and the 30+90d gtc nerf made me angry enough already...
F*** capitalism... this is pure greed!
lying about how this was an bug and not intended is the last straw that broke the camel's back.
-2 accounts *snip* Signiture remoted because it contained profanity - hutch |
Cugel Iocounu
Amarr Es and Whizz Hedonistic Imperative
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 19:20:00 -
[2394]
Edited by: Cugel Iocounu on 14/10/2008 19:20:23 I used to defend CCP when people would slam them in-game and now this. I take back anything good i ever said about CCP
This shit is ****in disgraceful. *****S! nothing but a blatant attempt to grab more cash. You dont care for your players at all do you?
post No.2342
|
clone 1
Laughing Leprechauns Corporation
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 19:21:00 -
[2395]
Looks like this thread has been relegated to the Downbelow of the Eve-0 forums.
-------------------------------------------------- The Angels Have the Phone Box |
James Marshalll
Gallente
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 19:21:00 -
[2396]
Originally by: Julius Rigel
Originally by: RVWinkle Now that this is no longer a feature I cannot justify resubscribing.
Apparently you can, since you're still subscribed...
you do know that ending your sub doesn't end your ability to post or play the game until your paid time is gone right?
|
Sailon
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 19:21:00 -
[2397]
Originally by: Deadly Hobbitses CCP Wrangler: The only avenue left for CCP to regain any amount of credibility regarding this issue is to implement a skill training queue. ONLY this would provide adequate justification for these drastic measures as the ability to queue up multiple skills to train while you do not pay would be much more of an advantage of note than the current ability to have whatever skill is currently training when your subscription lapses complete.
ymm no if it doesent include 2x faster skill training
|
Soma Khan
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 19:21:00 -
[2398]
Originally by: oilio This sucks.
I am cancelling both subscriptions right now (or would be, if I could get to my account details - seems to have seized up).
...
Do make sure and remember to cancel when the accounts page comes up later on. Nothing but good will come from you and those like you leaving this place. Less database and forum pollution, as witnessed by this thread. ___
|
BIind
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 19:22:00 -
[2399]
Edited by: BIind on 14/10/2008 19:21:49
Originally by: Julius Rigel Edited by: Julius Rigel on 14/10/2008 19:20:06 Edited by: Julius Rigel on 14/10/2008 19:18:42
Originally by: Zarest I will not be coming back after my next break if you disable ghost training..... So that's one, two year subscriber gone... Good Job CCP I am sure you will make millions off of this.
Originally by: Lag Subscription canceled (Ironic that it was supposed to renew on 10/17).
Originally by: Trumpoll Now there is one less reason to come back to Eve Online.
Your stuff... must... have.
This has to be the lamest, most boring and unimaginative meme ever, why don't you let it die already.
|
Soldur
Slacker Industries
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 19:22:00 -
[2400]
Edited by: Soldur on 14/10/2008 19:24:09 http://www.kaptainklak.com/gfx/gallery/CCP.jpg
|
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Captain Kelden
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 19:22:00 -
[2401]
Originally by: Frances Ducoir there goes my eve subscription and my 2 accounts.
the possibility of progressing while not online and even while the account is inactive, was one of the reasons i still played eve.
You will still progress when not online, it will only stop if the account is inactive (subscription expired).
|
Vanishing Vixen
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 19:22:00 -
[2402]
Originally by: Sailon
Originally by: Deadly Hobbitses CCP Wrangler: The only avenue left for CCP to regain any amount of credibility regarding this issue is to implement a skill training queue. ONLY this would provide adequate justification for these drastic measures as the ability to queue up multiple skills to train while you do not pay would be much more of an advantage of note than the current ability to have whatever skill is currently training when your subscription lapses complete.
ymm no if it doesent include 2x faster skill training
Just go ahead and release the other two levels of implants which are currently still in the database but are not available in-game.
|
Catherine Frasier
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 19:23:00 -
[2403]
Originally by: Peter VonThal
"i made the mistake of telling Wrangler they stopped training on Tranquility when subsctiptions lapsed, this lead to much confusion and me being whipped (which i have to admit, i enjoyed very much) But i was mistaken, it's only applicable to the Serenity server."
"I just want to let you know that skill training WILL continue while the account is inactive. I had picked this up wrong when i was speaking to Wrangler before and i mistakenly told him that skills stop training when accounts go inactive, this is why it was included in the patch notes and it's entirely my fault."
Did you actually read that? When ghost training was disabled on the Chinese server Jiekon mistakenly thought it was simultaneously being disabled on TQ. It wasn't. His correcting his mistake in no way, shape or form promised (or even implied) that therefore ghost training was a permanent feature of TQ, merely that it wasn't being terminated at that particular moment.
|
Mahmukt
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 19:23:00 -
[2404]
What a load BS tbh doubt I'll be back again now
Age of Reckoning here I come
to CCP
|
Kuangdianbai
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 19:24:00 -
[2405]
I think players are getting angry more at the fact that this has been a feature and advertised as a feature for the past 5 years and then all of the suden ccp deems it a bug, plus the fact all the
magical thread issues happening and the ninja editing of the players guide doesnt help matters could this be due to the fact iceland economy is in shambles and ccp want a cash infusion.
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James Marshalll
Gallente
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 19:24:00 -
[2406]
Originally by: Soma Khan
Originally by: oilio This sucks.
I am cancelling both subscriptions right now (or would be, if I could get to my account details - seems to have seized up).
...
Do make sure and remember to cancel when the accounts page comes up later on. Nothing but good will come from you and those like you leaving this place. Less database and forum pollution, as witnessed by this thread.
actually you are wrong. There is no change in the database footprint since they don't delete unsubbed accounts, nor do they delete the assets of those characters. So in reality, beside the forum pollution, nothing is gained on the performance side of the database by people quiting over this..
well I mean other then the fact that lost revenue from people quiting might make them have to fire a database engineer or two..
|
The Ubernomicon
Eight year old girls GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 19:24:00 -
[2407]
Edited by: The Ubernomicon on 14/10/2008 19:52:49
Edit: Hu, someone appears to have changed my img to a link. I will change it back.
|
Julius Rigel
House Rigel
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 19:24:00 -
[2408]
Edited by: Julius Rigel on 14/10/2008 19:28:52 Edited by: Julius Rigel on 14/10/2008 19:27:42
Originally by: James Marshalll
Originally by: Julius Rigel
Originally by: RVWinkle Now that this is no longer a feature I cannot justify resubscribing.
Apparently you can, since you're still subscribed...
you do know that ending your sub doesn't end your ability to post or play the game until your paid time is gone right?
[Edit:] Sorry, my point is; what are you doing here if you intend to leave?
Frigate racing is fast and fun! |
Lag
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 19:25:00 -
[2409]
Mahmukt.. its a great game. I'm playing it instead now :)
|
Gedhay
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 19:25:00 -
[2410]
Originally by: Captain Kelden Hello,
While I understand and accept the reasons CCP have provided for disabling Ghost Training, I can also see things from the other viewpoint. Would it be possible for CCP to compromise on this to try and keep Ghost Trainers happy?
Would CCP consider allowing an inactive account to Ghost Train for a maximum of two months of every year? So for example if the account is inactive for six months out of every twelve, ghost training would only work for two of those inactive months before being disabled on that account until the next year.
I can't say I've knowingly used Ghost Training except for when I forgot my subscription was about to expire and it's lapsed. It was good to know that my skill would train until I could get a new GTC. Perhaps an idea would be to allow a Ghost Training grace period? Allow the skills to train for 7 days after the account is becomes inactive.
The flame threads going on at the moment are not helping much, so please keep this thread flame free. The ideas above may not be possible, but hopefully they will get someone thinking.
Thanks!
I subscribe to that! Another sugestion is that u can cancel ur subscription once or twice a year, and not for long than1-2 months
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Lord Fuzzywig
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Posted - 2008.10.14 19:25:00 -
[2411]
Originally by: Catherine Frasier
Originally by: Peter VonThal
"i made the mistake of telling Wrangler they stopped training on Tranquility when subsctiptions lapsed, this lead to much confusion and me being whipped (which i have to admit, i enjoyed very much) But i was mistaken, it's only applicable to the Serenity server."
"I just want to let you know that skill training WILL continue while the account is inactive. I had picked this up wrong when i was speaking to Wrangler before and i mistakenly told him that skills stop training when accounts go inactive, this is why it was included in the patch notes and it's entirely my fault."
Did you actually read that? When ghost training was disabled on the Chinese server Jiekon mistakenly thought it was simultaneously being disabled on TQ. It wasn't. His correcting his mistake in no way, shape or form promised (or even implied) that therefore ghost training was a permanent feature of TQ, merely that it wasn't being terminated at that particular moment.
This is precisely what invalidates the "it's a bug" argument, though, Catherine. You see, if it was a bug, both servers would have had it removed, perhaps even at the same time.
There's no reason you would leave a bug on one server and remove it from another.
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Catherine Frasier
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Posted - 2008.10.14 19:26:00 -
[2412]
Originally by: Kuangdianbai I think players are getting angry more at the fact that this has been a feature and advertised as a feature for the past 5 years
So people keep saying but they never say where. So, where was this advertised as a feature?
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Lucas Avignon
Avignon Associates Inc.
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Posted - 2008.10.14 19:26:00 -
[2413]
Well like others have said, when you took away the 30d and 90d gtc's a lot of us were very ****ed off, we still are. You managed to reduce your subscriptions then and your going to reduce them now.
Well I'm letting my 3 accounts go inactive for good.
Greed ain't good, you should learn something from your banking sectors melt down
Originally by: CCP Prism X Yeah, and while we're at it we can create a controlled environment around account hacking and credit card fraud and all the other EULA breaches..
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SkwisgaarSkwigelf
C.R.M Productions
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Posted - 2008.10.14 19:27:00 -
[2414]
Originally by: BIind
Originally by: Deadly Hobbitses CCP Wrangler: The only avenue left for CCP to regain any amount of credibility regarding this issue is to implement a skill training queue. ONLY this would provide adequate justification for these drastic measures as the ability to queue up multiple skills to train while you do not pay would be much more of an advantage of note than the current ability to have whatever skill is currently training when your subscription lapses complete.
link please
I think he was telling, not quoting.
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Nureoeis
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Posted - 2008.10.14 19:27:00 -
[2415]
Why not have a skill queue ready to implement when making these changes and give sufficient notice, I hope you have a rabbit ready to pop out of that hat.
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Captain Kelden
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Posted - 2008.10.14 19:27:00 -
[2416]
Originally by: Lucas Avignon
Well I'm letting my 3 accounts go inactive for good.
Don't forget to trash your items and biomass your characters on the way out.
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EnslaverOfMinmatar
Yarsk Hunters DeaDSpace Coalition
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Posted - 2008.10.14 19:28:00 -
[2417]
Edited by: EnslaverOfMinmatar on 14/10/2008 19:28:44 i can has some stuff? T2 Amarr ships, lazors, reppers, eanms, hardeners, faction/t2 crystals.... no junk plz.
Skills continue training even if you are logged off or if your account is inactive (in the second scenario you can't change skill tr |
Sailon
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Posted - 2008.10.14 19:28:00 -
[2418]
Originally by: Nureoeis Why not have a skill queue ready to implement when making these changes and give sufficient notice, I hope you have a rabbit ready to pop out of that hat.
maybe they pop out carrot
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Kery Syander
The Illuminati. Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2008.10.14 19:28:00 -
[2419]
Implementing this an not having a skill queue seems pretty moronic on the surface. If one digs deeper, they realise that CCP really couldn't care less about 'advancement' or 'balance'. CCP cares about their bottom line and how many more subscriptions they can get. Thanks for making quitting easier. Thanks for being classy and giving your loyal subscribers a fair notice and actual input on a pretty massive game mechanic.
Pathetic CCP. I can see now clearly that no one at your company retains the values that once made me sing your praises. So long and thanks for all the fish. -----
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James Marshalll
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.10.14 19:28:00 -
[2420]
Edited by: James Marshalll on 14/10/2008 19:29:39
Originally by: Julius Rigel
Originally by: James Marshalll
Originally by: Julius Rigel
Originally by: RVWinkle Now that this is no longer a feature I cannot justify resubscribing.
Apparently you can, since you're still subscribed...
you do know that ending your sub doesn't end your ability to post or play the game until your paid time is gone right?
I did not know that. However I was refering to the fact that you have not biomassed your character, meaning you intend to use it at some later point in time.
because if CCP every comes to their senses sure people will come back. Speaking with your wallet to show your discontent with a change is one thing, deleting a character you have been building for 4 years out of anger is childish.
EDIT for your EDIT: I never said you could post with our unsubbed accounts who are past their playtime. I said people who have paid in advanced for time (or use a GTC) can cancel and STILL post or play until that playtime runs out.
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NupetietVer
Neuro Cartographic Services
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Posted - 2008.10.14 19:29:00 -
[2421]
the real ccp:
h tee tee p prefix:
http://img125.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ccpfingervc1.jpg
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Pastor Blew
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Posted - 2008.10.14 19:29:00 -
[2422]
Originally by: Captain Kelden
Don't forget to trash your items and biomass your characters on the way out.
You need to do the same.
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Soma Khan
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Posted - 2008.10.14 19:29:00 -
[2423]
Originally by: James Marshalll
Originally by: Soma Khan
Originally by: oilio This sucks.
I am cancelling both subscriptions right now (or would be, if I could get to my account details - seems to have seized up).
...
Do make sure and remember to cancel when the accounts page comes up later on. Nothing but good will come from you and those like you leaving this place. Less database and forum pollution, as witnessed by this thread.
actually you are wrong. There is no change in the database footprint since they don't delete unsubbed accounts, nor do they delete the assets of those characters. So in reality, beside the forum pollution, nothing is gained on the performance side of the database by people quiting over this..
well I mean other then the fact that lost revenue from people quiting might make them have to fire a database engineer or two..
Database accessing is the important part here.
Leaner and meaner CCP. I like it. ___
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Yeknom Nam
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Posted - 2008.10.14 19:30:00 -
[2424]
Originally by: Erimisha
Originally by: Tir'in B'karra
Silly to you because you've simply become used to ghost training. No other game lets you ghost train, and no one in those games whines and says that it's silly. It's not silly to have to -pay- for a -game- that you are benefiting from. Do you benefit from that character on your regular character? Yes. Therefore you should be paying to enjoy that character. What you're saying is absolutely silly. You're asking CCP if losing money they haven't lost yet is worth implementing a fix that they realized they need to fix. Fail much?
What you're failing to understand that that people like him probably never would have gotten a second account in the first place if not for Ghost Training. In that situation CCP actually GAINED 6 months of subscription from him.
You use the same logic as software companies when talking about how much they've lost to piracy. In that case they assume that everyone who pirated their software would have bought it. That is simply not true. So people like you and CCP think they "lost" 6 months of subscription due to 'ghost training' but in reality they got an additional 6 months of subs from him that they never would have gotten before.
This account would not exist if I had been informed of this change a week ago. Ghost Training was the main incentive justifying the purchase of a second account for a single game.
I do not intend to keep an average of one account active at any given time, but I can tell you that I do not plan to pay for both accounts 100% of the time. I understand financial difficulties and I do see where CCP is coming from. I cannot agree with the abruptness and the timing of this change along with the power of two promotion.
I can only agree to a compromise. Allow inactive accounts 2 weeks of training. That will provide people the ability to take short breaks and will prevent others from taking advantage of the Ghost Training "bug." In my case this compromise would have my accounts active a total of 75% of the time. This comes out to be the reasonable amount I am willing to spend to play a subscription based game and is very close to what I had planned when creating the second account.
In all honestly players should not feel pressured to have two accounts to fully experience a game.
I will approach CCP about reimbursement if this change goes live. The leading motivation for the creation of this account can be described as a "bait and switch" and this is exactly what I will tell my Credit Card company if CCP refuses to reimburse. Either way I will receive my $50 back from the CC company
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Gedhay
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Posted - 2008.10.14 19:30:00 -
[2425]
Originally by: Catherine Frasier
Originally by: Kuangdianbai I think players are getting angry more at the fact that this has been a feature and advertised as a feature for the past 5 years
So people keep saying but they never say where. So, where was this advertised as a feature?
it was removed from the player guid few hours ago
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AntonioBanderas
The Bastards
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Posted - 2008.10.14 19:30:00 -
[2426]
still no ccp response to 80 pages of pure love. __________________________________________________ I can say ASS!!! And SHIT!!!! \o/
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EnslaverOfMinmatar
Yarsk Hunters DeaDSpace Coalition
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Posted - 2008.10.14 19:30:00 -
[2427]
i can has some stuff? T2 Amarr ships, lazors, reppers, eanms, hardeners, faction/t2 crystals.... no junk plz.
Skills continue training even if you are logged off or if your account is inactive (in the second scenario you can't change skill tr |
oilio
Caldari State War Academy
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Posted - 2008.10.14 19:30:00 -
[2428]
Originally by: Soma Khan
Do make sure and remember to cancel when the accounts page comes up later on. Nothing but good will come from you and those like you leaving this place. Less database and forum pollution, as witnessed by this thread.
Hmm... troll.
You don't seem to understand what the issue is here. The issue of ghost-training is secondary. The issue is dropping a significant (and negative) change in the service onto people, and initially making out that it's for "balance" and "fairness" - which is patently garbage - followed by censorship of the forums when customers complain that the service is now not as good as it was.
If you don't think that CUSTOMERS should complain when the service is degraded, then fair enough - seems stupid to me, but whatever...
...except you probably do understand, but enjoy trolling to see if you can get a rise out of the angry customers who are posting here. |
Baihuigau
Gallente The Scope
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Posted - 2008.10.14 19:31:00 -
[2429]
Originally by: Catherine Frasier
Originally by: Kuangdianbai I think players are getting angry more at the fact that this has been a feature and advertised as a feature for the past 5 years
So people keep saying but they never say where. So, where was this advertised as a feature?
For one in the players guide but that has been ninja edited, im pretty sure iv seen it on some eve advertisements as well, i should try and find my old eve box manual see if it says it there.
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Deadly Hobbitses
Caldari State War Academy
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Posted - 2008.10.14 19:31:00 -
[2430]
Originally by: BIind
Originally by: Deadly Hobbitses CCP Wrangler: The only avenue left for CCP to regain any amount of credibility regarding this issue is to implement a skill training queue. ONLY this would provide adequate justification for these drastic measures as the ability to queue up multiple skills to train while you do not pay would be much more of an advantage of note than the current ability to have whatever skill is currently training when your subscription lapses complete.
link please
Yes, I was telling/delivering an ultimatum. Us hobbits may be small but we do have fortitude of soul and a voracious appetite!
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Lorgoth
Children of Gjallarhorn
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Posted - 2008.10.14 19:31:00 -
[2431]
http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m128/skyl3lazer/whocares.png
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Grytok
KL0NKRIEGER
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Posted - 2008.10.14 19:32:00 -
[2432]
Well... I was just about to take a break from EvE after 2 1/2 years and set some long skills before my 3 accounts run out...
No... I won't resub any accounts of them.
GL with your decisions CCP, and fly safe all you capsuleers.
I'll be seen in Earthrise then I guess.
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Maurice MerleauPonty
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Posted - 2008.10.14 19:32:00 -
[2433]
Well this growing alt was going to get gradually skill up with timecodes intermittently tossed his way. That would have been $$$ for CCP that otherwise would not have existed. Now I'm just going to let this character expire. It won't be revived unless the ghost-train nerf is reversed, and I will follow through on this promise.
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Xaa
Minmatar House Arrakis
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Posted - 2008.10.14 19:32:00 -
[2434]
I remember reading that the chinese server never even had the ghost-training "bug"!?
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James Marshalll
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.10.14 19:32:00 -
[2435]
Originally by: Soma Khan
Originally by: James Marshalll
Originally by: Soma Khan
Originally by: oilio This sucks.
I am cancelling both subscriptions right now (or would be, if I could get to my account details - seems to have seized up).
...
Do make sure and remember to cancel when the accounts page comes up later on. Nothing but good will come from you and those like you leaving this place. Less database and forum pollution, as witnessed by this thread.
actually you are wrong. There is no change in the database footprint since they don't delete unsubbed accounts, nor do they delete the assets of those characters. So in reality, beside the forum pollution, nothing is gained on the performance side of the database by people quiting over this..
well I mean other then the fact that lost revenue from people quiting might make them have to fire a database engineer or two..
Database accessing is the important part here.
Leaner and meaner CCP. I like it.
which has already been proven pretty much to be BS.
The way skill training worked as I understood it was that there was a one time connection to the database for the start, and one for the finish of the skill. There is no concurrent connection to the database for every skill in training, and if there is someone needs to load a gun and shoot whoever designed their database infrastructure.
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Za Tarc
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Posted - 2008.10.14 19:32:00 -
[2436]
I see the point, but I believe this has been a mutually beneficial benefit that they might not want gone. I, of course, can only speak from my view, but myself and 4 of my personal friends all play the game, and while we have definately taken advantage of this "unintended feature", it has also worked to CCP's benefit. because the truth is, that most players switch to another game from time to time, if anything, just go get boots on the ground. a ship can get to you after a while. when we leave, we shut down the account... but unlike the other games we play, we come back in 30 days, pay a month and get the skill going again. it is borderline-important to us to do this. However, now when I take a break, I obviously will just turn off my account and deal with the loss of time. Now CCP isn't getting anything during my break from the game. this will also be true for those I personally know. so while some folks will just pay anyway, many other will not pay at all. This will probably lead to a break-even at best... the only difference is that if six months goes by, I might have forgot the draw of the game and won't come back. It is when we log back in and see our beloved ships that we remember why we loved the game. memories fade over time.
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Lallante
Reikoku Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.10.14 19:32:00 -
[2437]
Edited by: Lallante on 14/10/2008 19:33:01
Originally by: oilio
Originally by: Soma Khan
Do make sure and remember to cancel when the accounts page comes up later on. Nothing but good will come from you and those like you leaving this place. Less database and forum pollution, as witnessed by this thread.
Hmm... troll.
You don't seem to understand what the issue is here. The issue of ghost-training is secondary. The issue is dropping a significant (and negative) change in the service onto people, and initially making out that it's for "balance" and "fairness" - which is patently garbage - followed by censorship of the forums when customers complain that the service is now not as good as it was.
If you don't think that CUSTOMERS should complain when the service is degraded, then fair enough - seems stupid to me, but whatever...
...except you probably do understand, but enjoy trolling to see if you can get a rise out of the angry customers who are posting here.
*******s. Thats just the excuse the players are using to justify their personal whine at a change that will hit them in the pocket.
CCP are acting perfectly naturally as a company, even though I think they are strategically wrong
Lall - THE Vocal Minority - Reikoku
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Catherine Frasier
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Posted - 2008.10.14 19:33:00 -
[2438]
Originally by: Lord Fuzzywig You see, if it was a bug, both servers would have had it removed, perhaps even at the same time.
There's no reason you would leave a bug on one server and remove it from another.
First: This thread demonstrates a very good reason to let this particular sleeping dog lie: the almost hysterical anger of those people exploiting it when the free ride ends.
Secondly: They didn't just say "It's a bug!" like the window position UI bug. The statement was: "Ghost Training was an unintended feature... While this allowed players to run multiple characters on a shoestring budget, in all effect, this was a bug." So it's an unintended feature that basically, IN EFFECT was a bug. It's a much more nuanced statement than your interpretation would suggest.
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Lallante
Reikoku Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.10.14 19:34:00 -
[2439]
Originally by: James Marshalll
Originally by: Soma Khan
Originally by: James Marshalll
Originally by: Soma Khan
Originally by: oilio This sucks.
I am cancelling both subscriptions right now (or would be, if I could get to my account details - seems to have seized up).
...
Do make sure and remember to cancel when the accounts page comes up later on. Nothing but good will come from you and those like you leaving this place. Less database and forum pollution, as witnessed by this thread.
actually you are wrong. There is no change in the database footprint since they don't delete unsubbed accounts, nor do they delete the assets of those characters. So in reality, beside the forum pollution, nothing is gained on the performance side of the database by people quiting over this..
well I mean other then the fact that lost revenue from people quiting might make them have to fire a database engineer or two..
Database accessing is the important part here.
Leaner and meaner CCP. I like it.
which has already been proven pretty much to be BS.
The way skill training worked as I understood it was that there was a one time connection to the database for the start, and one for the finish of the skill. There is no concurrent connection to the database for every skill in training, and if there is someone needs to load a gun and shoot whoever designed their database infrastructure.
Then how does the 'My Character' Page stay updated?
Lall - THE Vocal Minority - Reikoku
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Catherine Frasier
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 19:34:00 -
[2440]
Originally by: Gedhay
Originally by: Catherine Frasier
Originally by: Kuangdianbai I think players are getting angry more at the fact that this has been a feature and advertised as a feature for the past 5 years
So people keep saying but they never say where. So, where was this advertised as a feature?
it was removed from the player guid few hours ago
Documented in the guide != Advertised as a feature.
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Le Skunk
Low Sec Liberators
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Posted - 2008.10.14 19:35:00 -
[2441]
Hopefully this will cost CCP more in canceled accounts then it gains them. Then maybe they can start sacking some of the clowns from the higher echelons.
Fingers crossed
SKUNK
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BIind
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 19:35:00 -
[2442]
Edited by: BIind on 14/10/2008 19:36:42
Originally by: Deadly Hobbitses
Originally by: BIind
Originally by: Deadly Hobbitses CCP Wrangler: The only avenue left for CCP to regain any amount of credibility regarding this issue is to implement a skill training queue. ONLY this would provide adequate justification for these drastic measures as the ability to queue up multiple skills to train while you do not pay would be much more of an advantage of note than the current ability to have whatever skill is currently training when your subscription lapses complete.
link please
Yes, I was telling/delivering an ultimatum. Us hobbits may be small but we do have fortitude of soul and a voracious appetite!
Damn (as in the black turkey ship) you hobbits with your ambiguity.
Edit: "damn" not censored anymore? haha progress.
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Lallante
Reikoku Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.10.14 19:36:00 -
[2443]
Originally by: Catherine Frasier
Originally by: Lord Fuzzywig You see, if it was a bug, both servers would have had it removed, perhaps even at the same time.
There's no reason you would leave a bug on one server and remove it from another.
First: This thread demonstrates a very good reason to let this particular sleeping dog lie: the almost hysterical anger of those people exploiting it when the free ride ends.
Secondly: They didn't just say "It's a bug!" like the window position UI bug. The statement was: "Ghost Training was an unintended feature... While this allowed players to run multiple characters on a shoestring budget, in all effect, this was a bug." So it's an unintended feature that basically, IN EFFECT was a bug. It's a much more nuanced statement than your interpretation would suggest.
Exactly, all 'unintended feature' means is that it arose as a side effect of how skill training was coded, not as the intention, and they were happy with it until now.
Honestly, I wish all the complainers would simply admit they are angry cos they enjoyed playing the system to their advantage and now they cant. GET OFF YOUR HIGH HORSES; you are lying to yourselves.
Lall - THE Vocal Minority - Reikoku
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God Chaser
Caldari Vanguard Frontiers Violent-Tendencies
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Posted - 2008.10.14 19:36:00 -
[2444]
Their economy collapsed and they are trying to stay above water. When your money loses so much of its value your in trouble and so they found a way to generate new revenue.
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Catherine Frasier
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 19:37:00 -
[2445]
Originally by: Baihuigau
Originally by: Catherine Frasier
Originally by: Kuangdianbai I think players are getting angry more at the fact that this has been a feature and advertised as a feature for the past 5 years
So people keep saying but they never say where. So, where was this advertised as a feature?
im pretty sure iv seen it on some eve advertisements as well, i should try and find my old eve box manual see if it says it there.
Well I'm pretty sure that nobody has been able to find it in any eve advertisements or on their eve box manual.
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Velda Chulai
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 19:38:00 -
[2446]
Originally by: Lallante
Originally by: James Marshalll
Originally by: Soma Khan
Originally by: James Marshalll
Originally by: Soma Khan
Originally by: oilio This sucks.
I am cancelling both subscriptions right now (or would be, if I could get to my account details - seems to have seized up).
...
Do make sure and remember to cancel when the accounts page comes up later on. Nothing but good will come from you and those like you leaving this place. Less database and forum pollution, as witnessed by this thread.
actually you are wrong. There is no change in the database footprint since they don't delete unsubbed accounts, nor do they delete the assets of those characters. So in reality, beside the forum pollution, nothing is gained on the performance side of the database by people quiting over this..
well I mean other then the fact that lost revenue from people quiting might make them have to fire a database engineer or two..
Database accessing is the important part here.
Leaner and meaner CCP. I like it.
which has already been proven pretty much to be BS.
The way skill training worked as I understood it was that there was a one time connection to the database for the start, and one for the finish of the skill. There is no concurrent connection to the database for every skill in training, and if there is someone needs to load a gun and shoot whoever designed their database infrastructure.
Then how does the 'My Character' Page stay updated?
It stays updates through the power of division.
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Kuangdianbai
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 19:38:00 -
[2447]
Quote: Secondly: They didn't just say "It's a bug!" like the window position UI bug. The statement was: "Ghost Training was an unintended feature... While this allowed players to run multiple characters on a shoestring budget, in all effect, this was a bug." So it's an unintended feature that basically, IN EFFECT was a bug. It's a much more nuanced statement than your interpretation would suggest.
True but this has been going on for 5 years not even a mention hey were trying to fix but could it be maybe because of this iceland stockmarket 678.40 -2326.22 -77.42% 16:40 thats right 2000 point drop today alone.
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KingBobs Dawn
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 19:38:00 -
[2448]
ghost training was every time an nice feature and not a bug the next what will come is an another price increase
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Triksterism
Gallente Frozen Corpse Inspection Services United Federation of Capsuleers
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 19:38:00 -
[2449]
Originally by: God Chaser Their economy collapsed and they are trying to stay above water. When your money loses so much of its value your in trouble and so they found a way to generate new revenue.
But it isn't really going to do that. It'll probably get them a burst of $$ but it will be a temporary, very short lived amount from the people reactivating accounts to xfer characters or sell them off. After that, less accounts, less $$ -
Ghost Train & Snowflake |
Hun Jakuza
Naughty By Nature
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 19:38:00 -
[2450]
Originally by: Catherine Frasier
Originally by: Gedhay
Originally by: Catherine Frasier
Originally by: Kuangdianbai I think players are getting angry more at the fact that this has been a feature and advertised as a feature for the past 5 years
So people keep saying but they never say where. So, where was this advertised as a feature?
it was removed from the player guid few hours ago
Documented in the guide != Advertised as a feature.
Documented advertise in the guide = Advertised as a feature.
|
|
Highwind Cid
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 19:38:00 -
[2451]
Originally by: EnslaverOfMinmatar i can has some stuff? T2 Amarr ships, lazors, reppers, eanms, hardeners, faction/t2 crystals.... no junk plz.
I guess...but if this keeps up and everyone leaves you'll be by yourself. So what don't you quit too and play with yourself?
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James Marshalll
Gallente
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 19:39:00 -
[2452]
Originally by: Lallante
Originally by: James Marshalll
Originally by: Soma Khan
Originally by: James Marshalll
Originally by: Soma Khan
Originally by: oilio This sucks.
I am cancelling both subscriptions right now (or would be, if I could get to my account details - seems to have seized up).
...
Do make sure and remember to cancel when the accounts page comes up later on. Nothing but good will come from you and those like you leaving this place. Less database and forum pollution, as witnessed by this thread.
actually you are wrong. There is no change in the database footprint since they don't delete unsubbed accounts, nor do they delete the assets of those characters. So in reality, beside the forum pollution, nothing is gained on the performance side of the database by people quiting over this..
well I mean other then the fact that lost revenue from people quiting might make them have to fire a database engineer or two..
Database accessing is the important part here.
Leaner and meaner CCP. I like it.
which has already been proven pretty much to be BS.
The way skill training worked as I understood it was that there was a one time connection to the database for the start, and one for the finish of the skill. There is no concurrent connection to the database for every skill in training, and if there is someone needs to load a gun and shoot whoever designed their database infrastructure.
Then how does the 'My Character' Page stay updated?
When you set a skill to train, a time to finish is associated with that skill. There is a reason that you can not plug in implants, or clone jump with skills active.
can you guess why?
Thats right, because there is no concurrent connection to the database keeping your skill training an active connection to the front end client until its requested or changed.. It has to recalculate the time so that it can time stamp the database entry with a new time to finish.
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Alex Salas
BROTHERHOOD OF SPARTA Pupule 'Ohana
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 19:40:00 -
[2453]
Shameless cowards at CCP do not have the testicular fortitude to do anything beyond ninja edit and deletions.
Do not forgot to edit your patch notes.
http://myeve.eve-online.com/updates/patchnotes.asp?patchlogID=99
On the Serenity server, skills no longer train when the owning account is deactivated. Tranquility is not affected by this change.
___
___ EVE lies...rotating FTL!!!
http://myeve.eve-online.com/updates/patchnotes.asp?patchlogID=99
On the Serenity server, skills no longer train when the owning account is deactivated. Tranqu |
Huan Hunglong
Intensive CareBearz
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 19:40:00 -
[2454]
Edited by: Huan Hunglong on 14/10/2008 19:41:05
Originally by: Catherine Frasier
Originally by: Baihuigau
Originally by: Catherine Frasier
Originally by: Kuangdianbai I think players are getting angry more at the fact that this has been a feature and advertised as a feature for the past 5 years
So people keep saying but they never say where. So, where was this advertised as a feature?
im pretty sure iv seen it on some eve advertisements as well, i should try and find my old eve box manual see if it says it there.
Well I'm pretty sure that nobody has been able to find it in any eve advertisements or on their eve box manual.
It WAS on this page:
http://www.eve-online.com/guide/en/g615.asp
But CCP have conveniently changed that page over night.
It used to say: Skills continue training even if you are logged off or if your account is inactive
But as you can see, its now been changed.
edit: Screenshot found: http://dl.eve-files.com/media/0810/lie.jpg
I have no problem with CCP making this change... I wish they wouldnt blatently lie to us about the reason behind it. It is NOT a bug, its been a DOCUMENTENTED FEATURE for years!!!
You really think your customers are ******ed dont you CCP?
|
Julius Rigel
House Rigel
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 19:40:00 -
[2455]
Originally by: Highwind Cid
Originally by: EnslaverOfMinmatar i can has some stuff? T2 Amarr ships, lazors, reppers, eanms, hardeners, faction/t2 crystals.... no junk plz.
I guess...but if this keeps up and everyone leaves you'll be by yourself. So what don't you quit too and play with yourself?
Enslaver, I'll play with you! I'll even sub another account and make a minmatar you can enslave.
Frigate racing is fast and fun! |
Highwind Cid
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 19:40:00 -
[2456]
Edited by: Highwind Cid on 14/10/2008 19:42:22 hold on
|
Catherine Frasier
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 19:41:00 -
[2457]
Originally by: Hun Jakuza
Originally by: Catherine Frasier Documented in the guide != Advertised as a feature.
Documented advertise in the guide = Advertised as a feature.
As has been pointed out before: Microsoft documents the Blue Screen of Death in their Windows user guide, so by your logic the BSoD is advertised as a feature of Windows.
=Fail.
|
Za Tarc
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 19:41:00 -
[2458]
Edited by: Za Tarc on 14/10/2008 19:43:13 I certainly agree with one of the above posts. this is definately "bait and switch". EVERYONE knows this was a feature, not an exploit. CCP is good at bringing up exploits. and the community usually complies. If it was an exploit, then they would have said something a long time ago. Multiple accounts mostly work due to this "feature". Think real hard on this one CCP... it might be time to swallow the pride and let us win one for once. You have hit right at the heart with this one.
In business it is not the reality that matters, but the perception of reality. And the perception is that you are taking away an important part of the game.
|
Hun Jakuza
Naughty By Nature
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 19:42:00 -
[2459]
Edited by: Hun Jakuza on 14/10/2008 19:43:04 I like when the CCP alts make whining here. "the CCP did smart choice Or i want your stuff when 4237 subscribers cancelled accounts" Oh,my...
/sarcasm I want skill pause, when i logged off
|
CIA1
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 19:42:00 -
[2460]
Originally by: EnslaverOfMinmatar i can has some stuff? T2 Amarr ships, lazors, reppers, eanms, hardeners, faction/t2 crystals.... no junk plz.
NO shot the hell up.
|
|
Angel Lightbringer
Caldari Dark Evolution Industries
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 19:42:00 -
[2461]
Originally by: Catherine Frasier
Originally by: Kuangdianbai I think players are getting angry more at the fact that this has been a feature and advertised as a feature for the past 5 years
So people keep saying but they never say where. So, where was this advertised as a feature?
Used to be in Player Guide, but it now *HAS BEEN EDITED*
Read it HERE as a cache from Google. Third paragraph in 'How to train skills' section.
Skills continue training even if you are logged off or if your account is inactive (in the second scenario you can't change skill training, though).
I happened to use this feature once, when I had to disable my account for a full year, two years ago. I don't have alts nor do I use/abuse this feature but I am sincerely disapointed by CCP's management on this change of heart.
Remove a feature, fine, change how to grind money, fine, but don't disrespect your own staff by pretending a feature was indeed an unintended bug. Who's looking like an a$$ now? Certainly not the coders...
-Angel |
ZeroGasam
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 19:42:00 -
[2462]
I still cant find this page on info portal.. is it still hidden?
|
Lallante
Reikoku Band of Brothers
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 19:43:00 -
[2463]
Originally by: Hun Jakuza
Originally by: Catherine Frasier
Originally by: Gedhay
Originally by: Catherine Frasier
Originally by: Kuangdianbai I think players are getting angry more at the fact that this has been a feature and advertised as a feature for the past 5 years
So people keep saying but they never say where. So, where was this advertised as a feature?
it was removed from the player guid few hours ago
Documented in the guide != Advertised as a feature.
Documented advertise in the guide = Advertised as a feature.
Dont be a ******; if it had been missing from the guide then the guide would have been inaccurate. Guides are HOW things ACTUALLY work, not HOW they SHOULD work.
Lall - THE Vocal Minority - Reikoku
|
Soma Khan
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 19:43:00 -
[2464]
Originally by: oilio
Originally by: Soma Khan
Do make sure and remember to cancel when the accounts page comes up later on. Nothing but good will come from you and those like you leaving this place. Less database and forum pollution, as witnessed by this thread.
Hmm... troll.
You don't seem to understand what the issue is here. The issue of ghost-training is secondary. The issue is dropping a significant (and negative) change in the service onto people, and initially making out that it's for "balance" and "fairness" - which is patently garbage - followed by censorship of the forums when customers complain that the service is now not as good as it was.
If you don't think that CUSTOMERS should complain when the service is degraded, then fair enough - seems stupid to me, but whatever...
...except you probably do understand, but enjoy trolling to see if you can get a rise out of the angry customers who are posting here.
Yeah, God forbid you actually have to pay money for services rendered. You don't like the service? Leave.
Your access to these forums is a privilege, NOT a right. This privilege can be revoked by CCP solely at their discretion, as is any kind of censorship they deem prudent.
You use this privilege to complain, and I do also to tell you what I think about your reasoning and reaction. Until CCP use their right to lock this thread.
What exactly do you find wrong here? ___
|
James Marshalll
Gallente
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 19:43:00 -
[2465]
Originally by: Catherine Frasier
Originally by: Hun Jakuza
Originally by: Catherine Frasier Documented in the guide != Advertised as a feature.
Documented advertise in the guide = Advertised as a feature.
As has been pointed out before: Microsoft documents the Blue Screen of Death in their Windows user guide, so by your logic the BSoD is advertised as a feature of Windows.
=Fail.
as has been pointed out before:
If CCP didn't want people to use the feature, they wouldn't have put it in a new user guide. There is a huge difference between a production or personal use computer guide telling you what happens when a problem occurs, and how to send that information to the company, then a game studio putting ingame bugs they don't want people using in a new player guide.
but gg's.
|
Julius Rigel
House Rigel
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 19:44:00 -
[2466]
Originally by: Catherine Frasier Microsoft documents the Blue Screen of Death in their Windows user guide, so by your logic the BSoD is advertised as a feature of Windows.
I'm so starting a threadnought at microsoft.com if they ever nerf bsod. Are you with me? Come on people!
Frigate racing is fast and fun! |
INF Wonderwoman
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 19:44:00 -
[2467]
Originally by: Catherine Frasier
Originally by: Hun Jakuza
Originally by: Catherine Frasier Documented in the guide != Advertised as a feature.
Documented advertise in the guide = Advertised as a feature.
As has been pointed out before: Microsoft documents the Blue Screen of Death in their Windows user guide, so by your logic the BSoD is advertised as a feature of Windows.
=Fail.
You have been told this before... The BSD is a feature of Windows, getting helpful information on why the OS crashed is a good thing. (unlike mac) The failure itself is not documented because its not intended.
|
Lallante
Reikoku Band of Brothers
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 19:45:00 -
[2468]
Originally by: Huan Hunglong Edited by: Huan Hunglong on 14/10/2008 19:41:05
Originally by: Catherine Frasier
Originally by: Baihuigau
Originally by: Catherine Frasier
Originally by: Kuangdianbai I think players are getting angry more at the fact that this has been a feature and advertised as a feature for the past 5 years
So people keep saying but they never say where. So, where was this advertised as a feature?
im pretty sure iv seen it on some eve advertisements as well, i should try and find my old eve box manual see if it says it there.
Well I'm pretty sure that nobody has been able to find it in any eve advertisements or on their eve box manual.
It WAS on this page:
http://www.eve-online.com/guide/en/g615.asp
But CCP have conveniently changed that page over night.
It used to say: Skills continue training even if you are logged off or if your account is inactive
But as you can see, its now been changed.
edit: Screenshot found: http://dl.eve-files.com/media/0810/lie.jpg
I have no problem with CCP making this change... I wish they wouldnt blatently lie to us about the reason behind it. It is NOT a bug, its been a DOCUMENTENTED FEATURE for years!!!
You really think your customers are ******ed dont you CCP?
I personally think customers like you are ******ed; its a documented feature, yes, but an UNINTENDED ONE. Its a side effect of how skill training was coded, I rememeber its discussion in beta and the devs were like 'its fine for now'. Its documented because documentation needs to be accurate, and so to not document it would be silly! None of this makes it intended.
Lall - THE Vocal Minority - Reikoku
|
Lothendra
Gallente
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 19:45:00 -
[2469]
Originally by: Catherine Frasier
Originally by: Hun Jakuza
Originally by: Catherine Frasier Documented in the guide != Advertised as a feature.
Documented advertise in the guide = Advertised as a feature.
As has been pointed out before: Microsoft documents the Blue Screen of Death in their Windows user guide, so by your logic the BSoD is advertised as a feature of Windows.
=Fail.
Um, BSOD is a feature, it lets you know why your program/driver/kernel crashed so that you may do something about it.
Would you rather it wiped "hahaha" all over your hard drive instead, when it crashes?
|
Cragen o'mass
Caldari Fallen Nova
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 19:45:00 -
[2470]
it is me. i am the reason they are getting rid of Ghost training.
for the first time ever i let my account lapse to train a long skill on the 11th of october.
i feel i must say sorry to the whole eve communtiy for my terrible crime i will try my hardest to make amends.
regards O'mass ---------------------------------------
I Think everyone @ tiscali plays WoW |
|
Catherine Frasier
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 19:46:00 -
[2471]
Originally by: Huan Hunglong I wish they wouldnt blatently lie to us about the reason behind it. It is NOT a bug, its been a DOCUMENTENTED FEATURE for years!!!
Yes. It was a documented unintentional feature. Which is exactly what t0rfifrans said: "Ghost Training was an unintended feature where unpaid accounts of EVE Online were able to continue training skills... in all effect, this was a bug."
There's just no lie there.
|
Julius Rigel
House Rigel
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 19:46:00 -
[2472]
Originally by: Cragen o'mass it is me. i am the reason they are getting rid of Ghost training.
for the first time ever i let my account lapse to train a long skill on the 11th of october.
i feel i must say sorry to the whole eve communtiy for my terrible crime i will try my hardest to make amends.
regards O'mass
LYNCH HIM!!!
Frigate racing is fast and fun! |
Lallante
Reikoku Band of Brothers
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 19:47:00 -
[2473]
Originally by: James Marshalll
Originally by: Catherine Frasier
Originally by: Hun Jakuza
Originally by: Catherine Frasier Documented in the guide != Advertised as a feature.
Documented advertise in the guide = Advertised as a feature.
As has been pointed out before: Microsoft documents the Blue Screen of Death in their Windows user guide, so by your logic the BSoD is advertised as a feature of Windows.
=Fail.
as has been pointed out before:
If CCP didn't want people to use the feature, they wouldn't have put it in a new user guide. There is a huge difference between a production or personal use computer guide telling you what happens when a problem occurs, and how to send that information to the company, then a game studio putting ingame bugs they don't want people using in a new player guide.
but gg's.
Thats ******ed. Keeping it out of the guide would simply have been unfair to those who didnt know about it. The guide used to cover making instajumps and jetcan mining too and neither of those was intended. UNINTENDED FEATURE.
I say again; all those angry about this are lying to themselves. Really, all they are angry about is a hit to the wallet, they just pretend its righteous indignation at CCP wording (which, as we are all sophisticated to understand, is completely irrelevent).
Lall - THE Vocal Minority - Reikoku
|
Carsidava
Ars ex Discordia GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 19:48:00 -
[2474]
Eighty-one pages and no response from CCP. We're being treated like mushrooms: kept in the dark and fed bullshit. I'm going to post this again, fully realizing that CCP is ignoring us and just going to go blindly ahead with this ridiculous plan.
Nope, sorry. This doesn't wash.
If you disable skill training for inactive accounts, why aren't you also disabling market orders from inactive accounts? Why aren't you also disabling RP accumulation from inactive accounts? Why aren't you disabling dividend payouts to inactive accounts?
Why are only skill points being hit?
Sorry CCP, this is an entirely unsatisfactory answer. |
Hun Jakuza
Naughty By Nature
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 19:48:00 -
[2475]
Edited by: Hun Jakuza on 14/10/2008 19:53:03
Originally by: Lallante
Originally by: Hun Jakuza
Originally by: Catherine Frasier
Originally by: Gedhay
Originally by: Catherine Frasier
Originally by: Kuangdianbai I think players are getting angry more at the fact that this has been a feature and advertised as a feature for the past 5 years
So people keep saying but they never say where. So, where was this advertised as a feature?
it was removed from the player guid few hours ago
Documented in the guide != Advertised as a feature.
Documented advertise in the guide = Advertised as a feature.
Dont be a ******; if it had been missing from the guide then the guide would have been inaccurate. Guides are HOW things ACTUALLY work, not HOW they SHOULD work.
Oh i think u are that BoB players who used tongue for CCP. Mass tongue slap = whine ?
Anyway, was ghostraining for CCP a feature, and CCP used this words for advertisement always.
|
James Marshalll
Gallente
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 19:48:00 -
[2476]
Originally by: Lallante
Originally by: Hun Jakuza
Originally by: Catherine Frasier
Originally by: Gedhay
Originally by: Catherine Frasier
Originally by: Kuangdianbai I think players are getting angry more at the fact that this has been a feature and advertised as a feature for the past 5 years
So people keep saying but they never say where. So, where was this advertised as a feature?
it was removed from the player guid few hours ago
Documented in the guide != Advertised as a feature.
Documented advertise in the guide = Advertised as a feature.
Dont be a ******; if it had been missing from the guide then the guide would have been inaccurate. Guides are HOW things ACTUALLY work, not HOW they SHOULD work.
I have been involved in the production, development and saw to launch 15 different triple A titles in my tenor in the game industry from 01-05 for a large Japanese based game publisher.. I can tell you with no hesitation YOU DO NOT document bugs in a new user guide if you do not want your player base using those bugs.
using ideology from a side of software development that has PRODUCTION RELATED uses (Operating systems) to try and justify your argument that new users guides are not "features" but just how the game works is flawed. They are intended for 2 different audiences and serve two different purposes.
|
Lallante
Reikoku Band of Brothers
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 19:49:00 -
[2477]
Originally by: Carsidava Eighty-one pages and no response from CCP. We're being treated like mushrooms: kept in the dark and fed bullshit. I'm going to post this again, fully realizing that CCP is ignoring us and just going to go blindly ahead with this ridiculous plan.
Nope, sorry. This doesn't wash.
If you disable skill training for inactive accounts, why aren't you also disabling market orders from inactive accounts? Why aren't you also disabling RP accumulation from inactive accounts? Why aren't you disabling dividend payouts to inactive accounts?
Why are only skill points being hit?
Sorry CCP, this is an entirely unsatisfactory answer.
Theres a response saying they are monitoring this thread closely. Im sure they want to have a proper meeting tommorrow, you know, during the day time, before they make any official response.
Lall - THE Vocal Minority - Reikoku
|
Huan Hunglong
Intensive CareBearz
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 19:49:00 -
[2478]
Originally by: Lallante
Thats ******ed. Keeping it out of the guide would simply have been unfair to those who didnt know about it
You mean like the 1001 POS features which were undocumented for years?
|
Catherine Frasier
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 19:49:00 -
[2479]
Originally by: Lothendra Um, BSOD is a feature, it lets you know why your program/driver/kernel crashed so that you may do something about it.
Fine then. Crashes in which the BSoD appears, and in which you lose all your work are documented in the Windows guide. So by your logic the crashes which result in the BSoD and the loss of your data are advertised as a feature of Windows.
|
oilio
Caldari State War Academy
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 19:49:00 -
[2480]
Originally by: Soma Khan
What exactly do you find wrong here?
Well, I posted disatisfaction towards CCP - NOT YOU - and you responded with this:
Originally by: Soma Khan
Nothing but good will come from you and those like you leaving this place. Less database and forum pollution, as witnessed by this thread.
See that? That was your initial response. Looks like a trolling insult, doesn't it?
|
|
Amarr Hyena
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 19:50:00 -
[2481]
see you edited the player guide CCP.
dont forget your forum posts to, wouldent want any evidence left over that it was once indeed intended.
getting on my bloody nerves and fast. ------- ghost training Threadnaught V. Skills continue training even if you are logged off or if your account is inactive. |
BIind
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 19:50:00 -
[2482]
Edited by: BIind on 14/10/2008 19:51:12
Originally by: Lallante I personally think customers like you are ******ed; its a documented feature, yes, but an UNINTENDED ONE. Its a side effect of how skill training was coded, I rememeber its discussion in beta and the devs were like 'its fine for now'.
Semantics. It was possible for 5 years, it was convenient, it was an incentive to resub even without abusing it for alt farming and now it's being removed and people are angry. Get over yourselves already and let people respond to the dev post without stupid ass "can i have your stuff" and "lol your poor".
|
Lallante
Reikoku Band of Brothers
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 19:50:00 -
[2483]
Originally by: Lallante
Originally by: Carsidava Eighty-one pages and no response from CCP. We're being treated like mushrooms: kept in the dark and fed bullshit. I'm going to post this again, fully realizing that CCP is ignoring us and just going to go blindly ahead with this ridiculous plan.
Nope, sorry. This doesn't wash.
If you disable skill training for inactive accounts, why aren't you also disabling market orders from inactive accounts? Why aren't you also disabling RP accumulation from inactive accounts? Why aren't you disabling dividend payouts to inactive accounts?
Why are only skill points being hit?
Sorry CCP, this is an entirely unsatisfactory answer.
Theres a response saying they are monitoring this thread closely. Im sure they want to have a proper meeting tommorrow, you know, during the day time, before they make any official response.
That may be true, but CCP have never said they didnt want us to use the unintended feature while it was possible to do so. In fact, the implication is they didnt mind us using it. This has absolutely ZERO baring on whether they intended to change it.
Lall - THE Vocal Minority - Reikoku
|
Lag
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 19:51:00 -
[2484]
Lallante, I am a web applications developer by profession and deal with database issues ALL of the time.
It is easy to take the time that the skill started training and calculate how much time is left (so long as you have the formulas that affect skill training times... which CCP does.)
The only thing the database needs is a start time and character attribute information. After that, its all calculations.
In no circumstance should the "update character information" query be called in absolute intervals when dealing with the load generated by Eve's populace. With the immense load the database receives, character information would be calculated when you change skills, a skill finishes, and/or fired by some other trigger.
|
St Claus
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 19:51:00 -
[2485]
Edited by: St Claus on 14/10/2008 19:53:20
Originally by: Catherine Frasier
Originally by: Hun Jakuza
Originally by: Catherine Frasier Documented in the guide != Advertised as a feature.
Documented advertise in the guide = Advertised as a feature.
As has been pointed out before: Microsoft documents the Blue Screen of Death in their Windows user guide, so by your logic the BSoD is advertised as a feature of Windows.
=Fail.
Well, actually BSOD is error screen (feature). It is not a bug, it shown to user because bug caused critical error.
So, who actually failed?
edit: way too slow...
|
Souine
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 19:51:00 -
[2486]
Originally by: But recently we have seen a surge in this behavior in a way that we were essentially supporting and maintaining a large number of customers that weren't paying us regular subscriptions. That's not fair towards CCP as a service provider and it's not fair towards other players that pay a subscription but don't make use of this bug.
Yeah you shoved us in a box with the GTC Rubbish...
|
Velda Chulai
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 19:51:00 -
[2487]
Originally by: Catherine Frasier
Originally by: Lothendra Um, BSOD is a feature, it lets you know why your program/driver/kernel crashed so that you may do something about it.
Fine then. Crashes in which the BSoD appears, and in which you lose all your work are documented in the Windows guide. So by your logic the crashes which result in the BSoD and the loss of your data are advertised as a feature of Windows.
There are many POS features that were undocumented for years. POS bowling, hitting targets on the other side of POS's, and I'm sure remote doomsdays weren't formally documented.
|
Orion Moonstar
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 19:51:00 -
[2488]
Ghost poastin in a post ghostin thread
http://www.dariusjohnson.org/dec20bobts.mp3 http://www.daitengu.com/ohgod/dec20bobts.mp3 |
Lallante
Reikoku Band of Brothers
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 19:52:00 -
[2489]
Id love to know why it matters, to anyone, whether CCP once intended this, once supported it, documented it, whatever.
What difference does it make? They dont like the effect its having on the game now, so they are changing it.
Personally, I remember beta when this started happening. Its a side effect of the coding, not the intention, they were just happy with it until now.
Grow the **** up people
Lall - THE Vocal Minority - Reikoku
|
Catherine Frasier
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 19:52:00 -
[2490]
Originally by: James Marshalll I can tell you with no hesitation YOU DO NOT document bugs in a new user guide...
No, you can merely claim that YOU don't.
|
|
Julius Rigel
House Rigel
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 19:52:00 -
[2491]
Originally by: Amarr Hyena see you edited the player guide CCP.
dont forget your forum posts to, wouldent want any evidence left over that it was once indeed intended.
getting on my bloody nerves and fast.
Your stuff...
Frigate racing is fast and fun! |
Sahara Eternity
Amarr Imperial Academy
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 19:53:00 -
[2492]
Edited by: Sahara Eternity on 14/10/2008 19:55:00 Edited by: Sahara Eternity on 14/10/2008 19:54:18
Originally by: Lallante That may be true, but CCP have never said they didnt want us to use the unintended feature while it was possible to do so. In fact, the implication is they didnt mind us using it. This has absolutely ZERO baring on whether they intended to change it.
eXcuse me ... who are you ? You have 8 post in the last 30 posts on this thread ... Are you a CCP official ? If not stop posting and let people tell theyr story, if yes log in your main please.
EDIT: You beat me to it, make that 9 posts on 2 pages ... Opps added 1 more ...
|
Huan Hunglong
Intensive CareBearz
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 19:54:00 -
[2493]
Originally by: Catherine Frasier
Originally by: James Marshalll I can tell you with no hesitation YOU DO NOT document bugs in a new user guide...
No, you can merely claim that YOU don't.
So show us another example of where a bug is listed in documentation, in a manner that discribes it as a feature.
Any game or application will do.
|
Lallante
Reikoku Band of Brothers
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 19:54:00 -
[2494]
This thread is why I hate internet denizens so goddamn much. So ****ing self-righteous, so willing to INVENT a reason to get ****ed off when no other one is available.
Lall - THE Vocal Minority - Reikoku
|
Za Tarc
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 19:54:00 -
[2495]
Okay, lets play with the idea that this was not intended as a feature. Lets also say that they put it in the documentation because they wanted to be accurate. Now... due to this unintended feature, many many people found the power of two concept agreeable. They bought multiple accounts so that they could slowly work up a few characters (maybe a miner, trader or pvp) without paying an arm and a leg. Some would have bought these accounts anyway, but many would not have. CCP at no point in this documentation said, this feature is not intended and will be removed one day. Instead they took advantage of it and implied that this was a feature. They have now made additional money on this feature.. even if they are not fully aware of it. This leaves us with the perceived reality again, which is that people spent money based on current policy, only to have then revoke that policy after the investment was made. These players have the right to be mad. From their perspective, they have been deceived.
|
Catherine Frasier
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 19:54:00 -
[2496]
Originally by: Lallante Id love to know why it matters, to anyone, whether CCP once intended this, once supported it, documented it, whatever.
Because then they can be all self-righteous and moral about CCP "lying" to them. (Which sounds a lot better than just whining because their exploit is being disabled.) This is all about the appearance of justification.
|
FalconBayerskt
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 19:54:00 -
[2497]
Have CCP responded yet?? (dont have the time to check 80+ pages)
|
Lallante
Reikoku Band of Brothers
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 19:54:00 -
[2498]
Edited by: Lallante on 14/10/2008 19:55:10
Originally by: Sahara Eternity
Originally by: Lallante That may be true, but CCP have never said they didnt want us to use the unintended feature while it was possible to do so. In fact, the implication is they didnt mind us using it. This has absolutely ZERO baring on whether they intended to change it.
eXcuse me ... who are you ? You have 8 post in the last 30 posts on this thread ... Are you a CCP official ? If not stop posting and let people tell theyr story, if yes log in your main please.
This is my main. If you havnt heard of me, it simply means you havnt been playing Eve long enough. You dont control the forums, you dont decide who posts. Go away
Lall - THE Vocal Minority - Reikoku
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Paladineguru
Gallente DAB G00DFELLAS
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Posted - 2008.10.14 19:55:00 -
[2499]
Now a single customer that doesn't log into the servers may not weigh heavily on our database infrastructure, just as a single snowflake isn't that heavy, hardly a measurable quantity. But it's hard not to notice an avalanche if it hits you. And that's what was starting to happen in our database.
and pray tell how did you notice it. this game to record has never erased a single unused account. how many of those un renewed subs with a skill training training still were trials that DIDNT WANT TO COME BACK. how many were older players, a breakdown on where your getting your numbers might help. * please adjust the size of your signature image to no more than 400x120 - CCP Fallout |
The Ubernomicon
Eight year old girls GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.10.14 19:55:00 -
[2500]
It looks like a mod is going trough the thread and editing posts and not leaving any notice of the edits.
A mod changed the embedding of this img to a link:
http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m128/skyl3lazer/whocares.png
* the posting of images is not allowed on the forum - CCP Fallout |
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Catherine Frasier
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Posted - 2008.10.14 19:55:00 -
[2501]
Originally by: Huan Hunglong So show us another example of where a bug is listed in documentation, in a manner that discribes it as a feature.
In a manner that describes it as a feature? Where exactly was that?
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Huan Hunglong
Intensive CareBearz
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Posted - 2008.10.14 19:55:00 -
[2502]
Originally by: Sahara Eternity Edited by: Sahara Eternity on 14/10/2008 19:54:18
Originally by: Lallante That may be true, but CCP have never said they didnt want us to use the unintended feature while it was possible to do so. In fact, the implication is they didnt mind us using it. This has absolutely ZERO baring on whether they intended to change it.
eXcuse me ... who are you ?
A member of an alliance that has been using undocumented features as part of their gameplay for years.
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Ratio Legis
Slacker Industries
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Posted - 2008.10.14 19:55:00 -
[2503]
Originally by: Julius Rigel
Originally by: Catherine Frasier Microsoft documents the Blue Screen of Death in their Windows user guide, so by your logic the BSoD is advertised as a feature of Windows.
I'm so starting a threadnought at microsoft.com if they ever nerf bsod. Are you with me? Come on people!
If Microsoft came and told all the world the BSOD has in fact been an unintended feature all along and they never wanted to have or supported a mechanism for reporting critical errors to the user (which is the idea of the BSOD), then you'll see all the internet calling them on their bullshit, just as it happens here.
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Sahara Eternity
Amarr Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2008.10.14 19:56:00 -
[2504]
Edited by: Sahara Eternity on 14/10/2008 19:58:00
Originally by: Lallante This is my main. If you havnt heard of me, it simply means you havnt been playing Eve long enough. You dont control the forums, you dont decide who posts. Go away
LOL !!! Let me spell it to you again: L.O.L !
You joking right ?
EDIT: On the second part of ure post that is exacly my point, every one has the right to say his oppinion, you just to ... tenacious ...
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Alex Salas
BROTHERHOOD OF SPARTA Pupule 'Ohana
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Posted - 2008.10.14 19:56:00 -
[2505]
Edited by: Alex Salas on 14/10/2008 19:57:29
Originally by: Lallante Id love to know why it matters, to anyone, whether CCP once intended this, once supported it, documented it, whatever.
What difference does it make? They dont like the effect its having on the game now, so they are changing it.
Personally, I remember beta when this started happening. Its a side effect of the coding, not the intention, they were just happy with it until now.
Grow the **** up people
I am not angry because CCP is getting rid of ghost-trains. I utilized it for a few weeks on accident in fact. My accounts were fully paid for 99.9% of the time.
I am angry on how blatantly condescending CCP has lied about the situation. I have canceled my four account If you want proof, my corp is part of GBC so you can ask my CEO my views and intentions. One of my accounts is set to lapse in 2 days. I will rid the rest out till the last one lapse in December.
Edited for spelling
___
___ EVE lies...rotating FTL!!!
http://myeve.eve-online.com/updates/patchnotes.asp?patchlogID=99
On the Serenity server, skills no longer train when the owning account is deactivated. Tranqu |
Lallante
Reikoku Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.10.14 19:57:00 -
[2506]
Originally by: Za Tarc Okay, lets play with the idea that this was not intended as a feature. Lets also say that they put it in the documentation because they wanted to be accurate. Now... due to this unintended feature, many many people found the power of two concept agreeable. They bought multiple accounts so that they could slowly work up a few characters (maybe a miner, trader or pvp) without paying an arm and a leg. Some would have bought these accounts anyway, but many would not have. CCP at no point in this documentation said, this feature is not intended and will be removed one day. Instead they took advantage of it and implied that this was a feature. They have now made additional money on this feature.. even if they are not fully aware of it. This leaves us with the perceived reality again, which is that people spent money based on current policy, only to have then revoke that policy after the investment was made. These players have the right to be mad. From their perspective, they have been deceived.
By this logic CCP cant change any aspect of the game whatsoever
Lall - THE Vocal Minority - Reikoku
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Huan Hunglong
Intensive CareBearz
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Posted - 2008.10.14 19:57:00 -
[2507]
Edited by: Huan Hunglong on 14/10/2008 19:59:47
Originally by: Catherine Frasier
Originally by: Huan Hunglong So show us another example of where a bug is listed in documentation, in a manner that discribes it as a feature.
In a manner that describes it as a feature? Where exactly was that?
http://dl.eve-files.com/media/0810/lie.jpg
which used to be what http://www.eve-online.com/guide/en/g615.asp said
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Gedhay
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Posted - 2008.10.14 19:58:00 -
[2508]
Originally by: Lallante
Originally by: Carsidava Eighty-one pages and no response from CCP. We're being treated like mushrooms: kept in the dark and fed bullshit. I'm going to post this again, fully realizing that CCP is ignoring us and just going to go blindly ahead with this ridiculous plan.
Nope, sorry. This doesn't wash.
If you disable skill training for inactive accounts, why aren't you also disabling market orders from inactive accounts? Why aren't you also disabling RP accumulation from inactive accounts? Why aren't you disabling dividend payouts to inactive accounts?
Why are only skill points being hit?
Sorry CCP, this is an entirely unsatisfactory answer.
Theres a response saying they are monitoring this thread closely. Im sure they want to have a proper meeting tommorrow, you know, during the day time, before they make any official response.
that's before or after the patch launch??? and don't ell me u never used this "bug" cause u, bob's have a lot of people doing that!!!
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Catherine Frasier
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Posted - 2008.10.14 19:58:00 -
[2509]
Originally by: FalconBayerskt Have CCP responded yet?? (dont have the time to check 80+ pages)
Responded to what? The dev blog linked in the OP covers it all pretty well, what else is there to say?
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Ratio Legis
Slacker Industries
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Posted - 2008.10.14 19:58:00 -
[2510]
Originally by: Catherine Frasier In a manner that describes it as a feature? Where exactly was that?
Because it wasn't in the "known problems" section?
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Soma Khan
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Posted - 2008.10.14 19:58:00 -
[2511]
Originally by: oilio
Originally by: Soma Khan
What exactly do you find wrong here?
Well, I posted disatisfaction towards CCP - NOT YOU - and you responded with this:
Originally by: Soma Khan
Nothing but good will come from you and those like you leaving this place. Less database and forum pollution, as witnessed by this thread.
See that? That was your initial response. Looks like a trolling insult, doesn't it?
So, there is nothing wrong, except for my trolling (which is a subjective judgment, but so be it). Right? ___
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Lallante
Reikoku Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.10.14 19:59:00 -
[2512]
Originally by: Alex Salas Edited by: Alex Salas on 14/10/2008 19:57:29
Originally by: Lallante Id love to know why it matters, to anyone, whether CCP once intended this, once supported it, documented it, whatever.
What difference does it make? They dont like the effect its having on the game now, so they are changing it.
Personally, I remember beta when this started happening. Its a side effect of the coding, not the intention, they were just happy with it until now.
Grow the **** up people
I am not angry because CCP is getting rid of ghost-trains. I utilized it for a few weeks on accident in fact. My accounts were fully paid for 99.9% of the time.
I am angry on how blatantly condescending CCP has lied about the situation. I have canceled my four account If you want proof, my corp is part of GBC so you can ask my CEO my views and intentions. One of my accounts is set to lapse in 2 days. I will rid the rest out till the last one lapse in December.
Edited for spelling
___
What aspect of there statement is a lie. Anyone who played beta can confirm this is an unintended feature. I remember the original CSMs where it was discussed.
Lall - THE Vocal Minority - Reikoku
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Hun Jakuza
Naughty By Nature
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Posted - 2008.10.14 19:59:00 -
[2513]
Edited by: Hun Jakuza on 14/10/2008 19:59:03
Originally by: FalconBayerskt Have CCP responded yet?? (dont have the time to check 80+ pages)
According to you who can't fix a bug under 5 years, it responds to something inside 10 minutes ???
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James Marshalll
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.10.14 19:59:00 -
[2514]
Edited by: James Marshalll on 14/10/2008 20:00:22
Originally by: Catherine Frasier
Originally by: James Marshalll I can tell you with no hesitation YOU DO NOT document bugs in a new user guide...
No, you can merely claim that YOU don't.
do you have a grasp on why you wouldn't document bugs in a new user guide that you DIDN'T want users using?
do you have a grasp on the concept that a blue screen of death IS a feature and not a bug as another user pointed out?
do you have a grasp on the reason people are ****ed, for the most part is not directly associated with the fact they are losing the ghost training but the way its been handled, the fact there is way more ground breaking things in game to worry about, and that this has no affect on any player or the balance of the game?
Are you just a troll trying to get a rise out of people who are paying customers who are giving feedback on a change that will affect them from multiple positions like GTC prices, character sale prices, population, and friends leaving and not coming back because they have nothing to look forward to?
So far in this thread you have posted the same crap over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and ignore any post that really does show you the other side, and only respond with "oh quit whining!". At least if you have something to add, make sure its something other then the same old tired "This was a bug, not a feature even if it was in the new user guide!".
CCP can fight its own battles, it doesn't need you or the CCP2.0 alt club BoB defending it against its own customers... that is unless you are paid to? I mean at least BoB got BPO's out of it..
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10of10
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Posted - 2008.10.14 19:59:00 -
[2515]
Nice to see BoB coming to the defence of ccp on this......I wonder why this is ??????
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ISIAM
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Posted - 2008.10.14 20:00:00 -
[2516]
Originally by: Sahara Eternity Edited by: Sahara Eternity on 14/10/2008 19:55:00 Edited by: Sahara Eternity on 14/10/2008 19:54:18
Originally by: Lallante That may be true, but CCP have never said they didnt want us to use the unintended feature while it was possible to do so. In fact, the implication is they didnt mind us using it. This has absolutely ZERO baring on whether they intended to change it.
eXcuse me ... who are you ? You have 8 post in the last 30 posts on this thread ... Are you a CCP official ? If not stop posting and let people tell theyr story, if yes log in your main please.
EDIT: You beat me to it, make that 9 posts on 2 pages ... Opps added 1 more ...
INDEED. (..)
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Lag
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Posted - 2008.10.14 20:00:00 -
[2517]
I'd like to see the statistics on the database.
Assuming CCP is competent enough to not create a service that constantly queries the database to make appropriate updates, the only thing that inactive accounts would use on the database is space.
Why have a service running that constantly checks for skill completions when the routine could be performed with a trigger such as loading the My Character page or Character information in-game?
I don't see how ghost training is affecting the database.
Stats please! |
BIind
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 20:00:00 -
[2518]
This thread is about forum cred now.
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Lallante
Reikoku Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.10.14 20:01:00 -
[2519]
Originally by: James Marshalll
Originally by: Catherine Frasier
Originally by: James Marshalll I can tell you with no hesitation YOU DO NOT document bugs in a new user guide...
No, you can merely claim that YOU don't.
do you have a grasp on why you wouldn't document bugs in a new user guide that you DIDN'T want users using?
Where has anyone from CCP said they didnt want anyone using it? They simply changed it. They were happy for people to use it before the change goes live.
Lall - THE Vocal Minority - Reikoku
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Sailon
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Posted - 2008.10.14 20:01:00 -
[2520]
Originally by: 10of10 Nice to see BoB coming to the defence of ccp on this......I wonder why this is ??????
i see new hidden bpo t2 lottery
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Lallante
Reikoku Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.10.14 20:01:00 -
[2521]
tears = sustenance
Lall - THE Vocal Minority - Reikoku
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Zilor Dragoon
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Posted - 2008.10.14 20:02:00 -
[2522]
Lol.........it's all money now.
Reminds me of SWG.
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T0desengel
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Posted - 2008.10.14 20:03:00 -
[2523]
Edited by: T0desengel on 14/10/2008 20:03:16 This really is the clincher for me, 'Skills continue training even if you are logged off or if your account is inactive (in the second scenario you can't change skill training, though).', for thosew who have posted about it being a bug dont fool yourselves! How many more pages before CCP replies? if we ever see a reply! i dont think so. This is even more evidence that CCP are full of 5H1T and treat the community with the upmost contempt.
(and no you cant have my stuff)
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Huan Hunglong
Intensive CareBearz
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Posted - 2008.10.14 20:03:00 -
[2524]
Originally by: Lallante tears = sustenance
And we've all feasted so well off your tears over the years.
Yummy yummy.
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Julius Rigel
House Rigel
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Posted - 2008.10.14 20:04:00 -
[2525]
Originally by: Sailon
Originally by: 10of10 Nice to see BoB coming to the defence of ccp on this......I wonder why this is ??????
i see new hidden bpo t2 lottery
I see dead people.
No, wait...
They're just ghost training!
Frigate racing is fast and fun! |
Velda Chulai
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Posted - 2008.10.14 20:05:00 -
[2526]
Originally by: Lag I'd like to see the statistics on the database.
Assuming CCP is competent enough to not create a service that constantly queries the database to make appropriate updates, the only thing that inactive accounts would use on the database is space.
Why have a service running that constantly checks for skill completions when the routine could be performed with a trigger such as loading the My Character page or Character information in-game?
I don't see how ghost training is affecting the database.
Stats please!
It's time based. The Skillpoints are simply a slice of how many points you gain in a period of time.
Client confirm that a duration of time has passed. The only time the time remaining is calculated on the server side is when the client directs the server to switch skills - the server then knows that in (skillpointsPerHour/60)*(skillPointsNeeded*tierLevelMultiplier) that the skill will be complete. This is why your skill point rante doesn't change when you lose your implants and why you must not be training a skill when you clone jump - the re-calculation of skills doesn't occur until you specifically direct the game to do so.
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Maurice MerleauPonty
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Posted - 2008.10.14 20:06:00 -
[2527]
I am confirming that I did indeed cancel my subscription, and nobody can have my stuff.
Post here if you have done the same, so others can associate faces and names of characters who they will not see in-game after the subscription period ends ( or earlier ).
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Catherine Frasier
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Posted - 2008.10.14 20:06:00 -
[2528]
Originally by: Huan Hunglong Edited by: Huan Hunglong on 14/10/2008 19:59:47
Originally by: Catherine Frasier
Originally by: Huan Hunglong So show us another example of where a bug is listed in documentation, in a manner that discribes it as a feature.
In a manner that describes it as a feature? Where exactly was that?
http://dl.eve-files.com/media/0810/lie.jpg which used to be what http://www.eve-online.com/guide/en/g615.asp said
Actually, no. What the guide used to say was "Skills continue training even if you are logged off or if your account is inactive" which makes absolutely no statement about whether or not this is an intended feature, a bug, a loophole, a mistake, an oversight or an emergent property. It merely described, accurately, the way things worked. (Which apparently is A Bad Thing(tm) )
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Lallante
Reikoku Band of Brothers
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 20:06:00 -
[2529]
Originally by: T0desengel Edited by: T0desengel on 14/10/2008 20:03:16 This really is the clincher for me, 'Skills continue training even if you are logged off or if your account is inactive (in the second scenario you can't change skill training, though).', for thosew who have posted about it being a bug dont fool yourselves! How many more pages before CCP replies? if we ever see a reply! i dont think so. This is even more evidence that CCP are full of 5H1T and treat the community with the upmost contempt.
(and no you cant have my stuff)
Straw man. Torfi said its an UNINTENDED FEATURE. Which amounts to the same as a bug. Not a bug. Hence documentation. Reread the post.
Lall - THE Vocal Minority - Reikoku
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Velda Chulai
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Posted - 2008.10.14 20:07:00 -
[2530]
Edited by: Velda Chulai on 14/10/2008 20:07:59 Edited by: Velda Chulai on 14/10/2008 20:07:16
Originally by: Lallante
Originally by: T0desengel Edited by: T0desengel on 14/10/2008 20:03:16 This really is the clincher for me, 'Skills continue training even if you are logged off or if your account is inactive (in the second scenario you can't change skill training, though).', for thosew who have posted about it being a bug dont fool yourselves! How many more pages before CCP replies? if we ever see a reply! i dont think so. This is even more evidence that CCP are full of 5H1T and treat the community with the upmost contempt.
(and no you cant have my stuff)
Straw man. Torfi said its an UNINTENDED FEATURE. Which amounts to the same as a bug. Not a bug. Hence documentation. Reread the post.
Originally it was a game balance issue. It became a bug a few hour later.
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Tito Sajic
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Posted - 2008.10.14 20:07:00 -
[2531]
Originally by: T0desengel Edited by: T0desengel on 14/10/2008 20:03:16 This really is the clincher for me, 'Skills continue training even if you are logged off or if your account is inactive (in the second scenario you can't change skill training, though).', for thosew who have posted about it being a bug dont fool yourselves! How many more pages before CCP replies? if we ever see a reply! i dont think so. This is even more evidence that CCP are full of 5H1T and treat the community with the upmost contempt.
(and no you cant have my stuff)
so, not only did they document this so called 'unintended feature', but they advised us on how to best 'exploit' it...until today when they edited it.
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Huan Hunglong
Intensive CareBearz
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Posted - 2008.10.14 20:08:00 -
[2532]
Originally by: Lallante
Which amounts to the same as a bug. Not a bug.
ROFL!!!
So which is it? Make ya mind you.
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Julius Rigel
House Rigel
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Posted - 2008.10.14 20:08:00 -
[2533]
Originally by: Maurice MerleauPonty I am confirming that I did indeed cancel my subscription, and nobody can have my stuff.
Pretty please?
Frigate racing is fast and fun! |
Mr Nantucket
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Posted - 2008.10.14 20:09:00 -
[2534]
so CCP looks at it this way, they surely ran the numbers on what would happen on this, and it works for them because....
People quit eve because of ghost training nerf:
CCP loses money:
"Walking in stations comes out"
CCP Gets more money from new players with the attraction of a 3d chat room type thing, and first person movement in this game.
CCP Makes money:
People who are new, Wont know of the 'old days" when you could train skills while your account lapsed for awhile, and so never stop their accounts for brake or otherwise =
CCP Makes money:
There for, CCP will most likely make more money out of this then they lose, even with all of us stopping our accounts, I for one am stopping mine if this nerf truely goes though, stuff will be given away cause im a nice guy (to alliance/corp) HOWEVER, CCP still wins with this nerf.
Im sorry, but all this complaing wont do a thing, cause in about 3 months from now, CCP's income will most likely double or something.
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Karma
Eve University
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Posted - 2008.10.14 20:09:00 -
[2535]
Originally by: Brigsby5987 if you dont pay, you dont play. period.
No one cares if your poor, or your gonna take your alts and cancel your account.
I think the devblog explained it fairly well... no-one feels the weight of a snowflake.. but they'll definitely feel an avalanche.
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Straight Chillen
Gallente Solar Wind
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Posted - 2008.10.14 20:09:00 -
[2536]
So are you guys gonna do anything about inactive accounts farming data cores? are you gonna do anything about inactive accounts that have sell orders up? Please resize image to a maximum of 400 x 120, not exceeding 24000 bytes. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
Lag
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Posted - 2008.10.14 20:09:00 -
[2537]
As I already suspected and halfway stated in a previous post...
So what kind of problems is Ghost Training causing on the database? I don't see any....
I believe they are just doing this in an attempt to gain money, and throwing the players an excuse that they hope the playerbase will buy.
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Shar Tegral
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Posted - 2008.10.14 20:09:00 -
[2538]
Sorry, couldn't just lurk anymore with such rampant stupidity continuing to spawn. Originally by: Lag Why have a service running that constantly checks for skill completions when the routine could be performed with a trigger such as loading the My Character page or Character information in-game?
Did you ever notice that while you are in game you get informed when a skill changes? The purpose of that should be obvious. This also makes it painfully obvious that there is some form of heartbeat check for skill completions. So please spare us your novice attempts at debugging things that apparently exceed your powers of observation.
To Shar -verb: 1 - To say what you mean. 2 - To say what it means. 3 - To say something mean. |
Alex Salas
BROTHERHOOD OF SPARTA Pupule 'Ohana
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Posted - 2008.10.14 20:09:00 -
[2539]
Originally by: Lallante
What aspect of there statement is a lie. Anyone who played beta can confirm this is an unintended feature. I remember the original CSMs where it was discussed.
To classify an unintended "feature" into a bug does not bode well for EVE's community and insults the intelligence of the customer.
Real time training is a selling point of this game; even allowing once upon a time to complete a train while an account was unsubbed.
___ EVE lies...rotating FTL!!!
http://myeve.eve-online.com/updates/patchnotes.asp?patchlogID=99
On the Serenity server, skills no longer train when the owning account is deactivated. Tranqu |
Catherine Frasier
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 20:09:00 -
[2540]
Originally by: Velda Chulai Originally it was a game balance feature.
No. Originally (and from someone else) it was an undocumented feature, in effect a bug, which was problematic for game balance reasons.
That's still completely true.
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Lallante
Reikoku Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.10.14 20:09:00 -
[2541]
Originally by: Tito Sajic
Originally by: T0desengel Edited by: T0desengel on 14/10/2008 20:03:16 This really is the clincher for me, 'Skills continue training even if you are logged off or if your account is inactive (in the second scenario you can't change skill training, though).', for thosew who have posted about it being a bug dont fool yourselves! How many more pages before CCP replies? if we ever see a reply! i dont think so. This is even more evidence that CCP are full of 5H1T and treat the community with the upmost contempt.
(and no you cant have my stuff)
so, not only did they document this so called 'unintended feature', but they advised us on how to best 'exploit' it...until today when they edited it.
Yes. Exactly. Whats the issue? They documented safespots, jetcans mining, instajumps etc in the past too. All of them were unintended features.
Lall - THE Vocal Minority - Reikoku
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Hun Jakuza
Naughty By Nature
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Posted - 2008.10.14 20:10:00 -
[2542]
Originally by: Lallante
Originally by: T0desengel Edited by: T0desengel on 14/10/2008 20:03:16 This really is the clincher for me, 'Skills continue training even if you are logged off or if your account is inactive (in the second scenario you can't change skill training, though).', for thosew who have posted about it being a bug dont fool yourselves! How many more pages before CCP replies? if we ever see a reply! i dont think so. This is even more evidence that CCP are full of 5H1T and treat the community with the upmost contempt.
(and no you cant have my stuff)
Straw man. Torfi said its an UNINTENDED FEATURE. Which amounts to the same as a bug. Not a bug. Hence documentation. Reread the post.
Torfi said. LOL Maybe he are your parent ?
Write someon for you
"eXcuse me ... who are you ? You have 8 post in the last 30 posts on this thread ... Are you a CCP official ? If not stop posting and let people tell theyr story, if yes log in your main please."
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Medusa d'Mon
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Posted - 2008.10.14 20:10:00 -
[2543]
From Revelations patch notes:
'On the Serenity server, skills no longer train when the owning account is deactivated. Tranquility is not affected by this change.'
If the so called 'bug' was fixable on Serenity way back then, why wasn't the same 'bug' fixed on Tranquility at the same time?
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INF Wonderwoman
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Posted - 2008.10.14 20:11:00 -
[2544]
I have come to the conclusion that CCP will not change there decision no matter how long this thread gets. The main reason being that they not only have blown us off completely, but they told everyone two days before it happens. I personally will cancel my two alt accounts and play only on my main until I find a time that I need to take a break (finals/family) and at this point I most likely wont come back. Was a good run, thanks for all the fish!!
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Huan Hunglong
Intensive CareBearz
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Posted - 2008.10.14 20:11:00 -
[2545]
Originally by: Catherine Frasier
Originally by: Huan Hunglong Edited by: Huan Hunglong on 14/10/2008 19:59:47
Originally by: Catherine Frasier
Originally by: Huan Hunglong So show us another example of where a bug is listed in documentation, in a manner that discribes it as a feature.
In a manner that describes it as a feature? Where exactly was that?
http://dl.eve-files.com/media/0810/lie.jpg which used to be what http://www.eve-online.com/guide/en/g615.asp said
Actually, no. What the guide used to say was "Skills continue training even if you are logged off or if your account is inactive" which makes absolutely no statement about whether or not this is an intended feature, a bug, a loophole, a mistake, an oversight or an emergent property. It merely described, accurately, the way things worked. (Which apparently is A Bad Thing(tm) )
Using that arguement EVERYTHING documented in the player guide could be an 'unintended feature'
But im pretty sure theyre not.
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BIind
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Posted - 2008.10.14 20:11:00 -
[2546]
Originally by: Lallante Straw man. Torfi said its an UNINTENDED FEATURE. Which amounts to the same as a bug. Not a bug. Hence documentation. Reread the post.
I want a report on how many bug reports have been filed over the 5 years regarding this and how often it appeared on the Known Issues page on my desk right away.
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Gonada
Priory Of The Lemon
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Posted - 2008.10.14 20:11:00 -
[2547]
EXCELLENT IDEA CCP
yes I said it.
now you lamers have to pay for skill advancement, instead of ghost training.
Please, jump into traffic
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Julius Rigel
House Rigel
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Posted - 2008.10.14 20:11:00 -
[2548]
Originally by: Catherine Frasier
Originally by: Velda Chulai Originally it was a game balance feature.
No. Originally (and from someone else) it was an undocumented feature, in effect a bug, which was problematic for game balance reasons.
That's still completely true.
Originally it was a dev blog, then it ate some trolls and grew into a threadnought!
/me sniffles. Look at our little thready, he's all grown up now!
Frigate racing is fast and fun! |
Lallante
Reikoku Band of Brothers
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 20:12:00 -
[2549]
Originally by: Medusa d'Mon From Revelations patch notes:
'On the Serenity server, skills no longer train when the owning account is deactivated. Tranquility is not affected by this change.'
If the so called 'bug' was fixable on Serenity way back then, why wasn't the same 'bug' fixed on Tranquility at the same time?
Just a guess here, looking at the 84 page thread... Fear of community reaction?
Which is now outweighed by the huge number of people (ab)using it. (which, by the way, included myself; ive resubbed only because of this change).
Lall - THE Vocal Minority - Reikoku
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Mr Nantucket
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Posted - 2008.10.14 20:12:00 -
[2550]
Edited by: Mr Nantucket on 14/10/2008 20:13:19 They could have done this better though, instead of 3 days notice
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Tyby
The Scope
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Posted - 2008.10.14 20:13:00 -
[2551]
Edited by: Tyby on 14/10/2008 20:14:58
Quote: What aspect of there statement is a lie. Anyone who played beta can confirm this is an unintended feature. I remember the original CSMs where it was discussed.
you sir have a very good memory...
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Maren Maen
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Posted - 2008.10.14 20:13:00 -
[2552]
Wow.. all this insanity has finally taught me the value of the stealth nerf..
I think it's a great change, because I have kept my subscription without lapsing to ghost train for years (including over the course of 4 rank 8 skills and currently a rank 9). But I do have to admit, my sub expires in early Nov and I was planning to cancel for a month and ghost train. Guess it's too late to jump aboard that particular train. Oh, well.. can't lose what I never had.
To the rest of you.. HA HA.
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Soma Khan
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Posted - 2008.10.14 20:13:00 -
[2553]
Originally by: ISIAM
Originally by: Sahara Eternity Edited by: Sahara Eternity on 14/10/2008 19:55:00 Edited by: Sahara Eternity on 14/10/2008 19:54:18
Originally by: Lallante That may be true, but CCP have never said they didnt want us to use the unintended feature while it was possible to do so. In fact, the implication is they didnt mind us using it. This has absolutely ZERO baring on whether they intended to change it.
eXcuse me ... who are you ? You have 8 post in the last 30 posts on this thread ... Are you a CCP official ? If not stop posting and let people tell theyr story, if yes log in your main please.
EDIT: You beat me to it, make that 9 posts on 2 pages ... Opps added 1 more ...
INDEED. (..)
Upset that your arguments fall apart when subjected to reality and logic? Looking for ways to inject more tinfoil-hattery into this thread to cover up the lack of any coherent thoughts from your side?
HowÆs this one: CCP hid this thread from the general public out of embarrassment for the kinds of ******s their game attracts.
___
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Ratio Legis
Slacker Industries
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Posted - 2008.10.14 20:14:00 -
[2554]
Originally by: Lallante
Torfi said its an UNINTENDED FEATURE. Which amounts to the same as a bug. Not a bug. Hence documentation. Reread the post.
Unintended but supported feature, since CCP specifically made the distinction between Serenity - where they fixed that unintended feature - and Tranquility, where they chose not to. They have had it within their power to change it but have not, consciously and explicitly so, and have even made public that decision. That's as intended as it can go, no matter how a dev blog intended as PR smoke screen can try to represent things when they need an excuse.
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Carsidava
Ars ex Discordia GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.10.14 20:14:00 -
[2555]
Originally by: Lallante
Originally by: Carsidava Eighty-one pages and no response from CCP. We're being treated like mushrooms: kept in the dark and fed bullshit. I'm going to post this again, fully realizing that CCP is ignoring us and just going to go blindly ahead with this ridiculous plan.
Nope, sorry. This doesn't wash.
If you disable skill training for inactive accounts, why aren't you also disabling market orders from inactive accounts? Why aren't you also disabling RP accumulation from inactive accounts? Why aren't you disabling dividend payouts to inactive accounts?
Why are only skill points being hit?
Sorry CCP, this is an entirely unsatisfactory answer.
Theres a response saying they are monitoring this thread closely. Im sure they want to have a proper meeting tommorrow, you know, during the day time, before they make any official response.
That's garbage. They had an entire day to meet about this. These 125+ pages of protest didn't spring up in the last couple of hours. |
Julius Rigel
House Rigel
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Posted - 2008.10.14 20:14:00 -
[2556]
Originally by: Maren Maen HA HA.
I second that laugh.
Frigate racing is fast and fun! |
Waynetta Slob
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Posted - 2008.10.14 20:14:00 -
[2557]
Originally by: Lallante This is my main. If you havnt heard of me, it simply means you havnt been playing Eve long enough. You dont control the forums, you dont decide who posts. Go away
omfg.
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Lag
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Posted - 2008.10.14 20:15:00 -
[2558]
Originally by: Shar Tegral
Sorry, couldn't just lurk anymore with such rampant stupidity continuing to spawn. Originally by: Lag Why have a service running that constantly checks for skill completions when the routine could be performed with a trigger such as loading the My Character page or Character information in-game?
Did you ever notice that while you are in game you get informed when a skill changes? The purpose of that should be obvious. This also makes it painfully obvious that there is some form of heartbeat check for skill completions. So please spare us your novice attempts at debugging things that apparently exceed your powers of observation.
Did you ever attempt to think that when you login, a variable is set with your skill's remaining time?...and that the loop checks that variable instead of CONSTANTLY querying the database? Oh.. and when you switch skills or end a skill the variable is reset?...
Don't come to me with half-baked attempts at flaming me.
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Huan Hunglong
Intensive CareBearz
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Posted - 2008.10.14 20:15:00 -
[2559]
Originally by: Waynetta Slob
Originally by: Lallante This is my main. If you havnt heard of me, it simply means you havnt been playing Eve long enough. You dont control the forums, you dont decide who posts. Go away
omfg.
I know! Lallante thinks he matters!
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The Ubernomicon
Eight year old girls GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.10.14 20:16:00 -
[2560]
Refers to moderated post, the image in question is not constructive - Mitnal
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DJ Geist
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Posted - 2008.10.14 20:17:00 -
[2561]
Confirming that I have cancelled my subscription. This game was fun. I am a perfectionist and enjoyed the fact that I could plan out what my character trains even when I am too busy to play the game for some weeks. While ghost training would have been an occasional perk and incentive for me to return, I certainly paid CCP a lot of money over the course of the last year as a subscriber. I thought that the game mechanics understood mature players with busy lives, who like the fantasy and imagination of a sci-fi world but are justifiably apprehensive of time-sinks and wastes of money. I wanted to feel comfortable in a world where I pay as I play, and in the times that I can't play my character at least trains a skill and awaits my return.
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Baron Houshay
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Posted - 2008.10.14 20:17:00 -
[2562]
so if this was a bug, does all the training time we got over the last 5 years go away now?
all the ghost training I mean.
cause that would only be fair, it should be done this way, so us new players who have played for 2 months are not so far behind all the people who ghost trianed voer over a year combined
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Catherine Frasier
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Posted - 2008.10.14 20:18:00 -
[2563]
Originally by: Huan Hunglong Using that arguement EVERYTHING documented in the player guide could be an 'unintended feature'
Not quite. What you mean is if we ONLY looked at the guide then any documented mechanism could be considered as possibly unintended, and that might be true. However we have much more than just the guide to go on, so in reality it's a silly thing to say.
The issue is that the only thing that supports this stupid "CCP put ghost training in on purpose, promised they'd never take it out, advertised it in full page ads in the NYT and now they're taking it out to ruin my life and cause me cancer (the lying bastards!)" whine is one line in the guide. So the whiners are pretending that it is the only authority, indeed that it is the only possible source of information we should consider.
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James Marshalll
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.10.14 20:19:00 -
[2564]
Edited by: James Marshalll on 14/10/2008 20:20:02
Originally by: Waynetta Slob
Originally by: Lallante This is my main. If you havnt heard of me, it simply means you havnt been playing Eve long enough. You dont control the forums, you dont decide who posts. Go away
omfg.
Yea if you didn't know he paid kugutsumen to hack goons forums back in the day, I think he was in Shinra too with his good buddy theenslaver who now is a gm? maybe dev don't remember which. Also one of the reasons if I remember right that chowdown has his Titan. You see, when you get free T2 bpo's and have friends who would be affected by CCP losing subs you MUST defend feverishly the actions of those who keep you going in game.
of course I could be thinking bout the wrong BoBit =)
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Medusa d'Mon
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Posted - 2008.10.14 20:19:00 -
[2565]
Originally by: Lallante
Originally by: Medusa d'Mon From Revelations patch notes:
'On the Serenity server, skills no longer train when the owning account is deactivated. Tranquility is not affected by this change.'
If the so called 'bug' was fixable on Serenity way back then, why wasn't the same 'bug' fixed on Tranquility at the same time?
Just a guess here, looking at the 84 page thread... Fear of community reaction?
Which is now outweighed by the huge number of people (ab)using it. (which, by the way, included myself; ive resubbed only because of this change).
Only post when you know something. Stop guessing.
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Gedhay
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Posted - 2008.10.14 20:20:00 -
[2566]
Originally by: Soma Khan
Originally by: ISIAM
Originally by: Sahara Eternity Edited by: Sahara Eternity on 14/10/2008 19:55:00 Edited by: Sahara Eternity on 14/10/2008 19:54:18
Originally by: Lallante That may be true, but CCP have never said they didnt want us to use the unintended feature while it was possible to do so. In fact, the implication is they didnt mind us using it. This has absolutely ZERO baring on whether they intended to change it.
eXcuse me ... who are you ? You have 8 post in the last 30 posts on this thread ... Are you a CCP official ? If not stop posting and let people tell theyr story, if yes log in your main please.
EDIT: You beat me to it, make that 9 posts on 2 pages ... Opps added 1 more ...
INDEED. (..)
Upset that your arguments fall apart when subjected to reality and logic? Looking for ways to inject more tinfoil-hattery into this thread to cover up the lack of any coherent thoughts from your side?
HowÆs this one: CCP hid this thread from the general public out of embarrassment for the kinds of ******s their game attracts.
hmmmm lallante???
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Hun Jakuza
Naughty By Nature
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Posted - 2008.10.14 20:20:00 -
[2567]
Originally by: Huan Hunglong
Originally by: Waynetta Slob
Originally by: Lallante This is my main. If you havnt heard of me, it simply means you havnt been playing Eve long enough. You dont control the forums, you dont decide who posts. Go away
omfg.
I know! Lallante thinks he matters!
Oh yeah. :D Maybe he think that, when he did mission and save CCP, he will get a BPO from CCP. :D Hey Lallente 2004 was too far away. :D
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Julius Rigel
House Rigel
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Posted - 2008.10.14 20:20:00 -
[2568]
Originally by: Medusa d'Mon
Originally by: Lallante
Originally by: Medusa d'Mon From Revelations patch notes:
'On the Serenity server, skills no longer train when the owning account is deactivated. Tranquility is not affected by this change.'
If the so called 'bug' was fixable on Serenity way back then, why wasn't the same 'bug' fixed on Tranquility at the same time?
Just a guess here, looking at the 84 page thread... Fear of community reaction?
Which is now outweighed by the huge number of people (ab)using it. (which, by the way, included myself; ive resubbed only because of this change).
Only post when you know something. Stop guessing.
Stop posting about people who should stop posting!
Frigate racing is fast and fun! |
Chaos Incarnate
Faceless Logistics
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Posted - 2008.10.14 20:21:00 -
[2569]
Quote: CCP may find it necessary on occasion to make changes to or reset certain parameters of the persistent game world mechanics, interface or features of EVE Online in order to maintain game balance and enhance playability or performance for its subscribers. These changes may affect or cause setbacks for the characters you've created.
http://www.eve-online.com/pnp/terms.asp
Mhm. __________
Sig by Neth'Rae Cannot read from face Abort, Retry, Fail? FFFFFF |
Lallante
Reikoku Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.10.14 20:21:00 -
[2570]
Originally by: James Marshalll Edited by: James Marshalll on 14/10/2008 20:20:02
Originally by: Waynetta Slob
Originally by: Lallante This is my main. If you havnt heard of me, it simply means you havnt been playing Eve long enough. You dont control the forums, you dont decide who posts. Go away
omfg.
Yea if you didn't know he paid kugutsumen to hack goons forums back in the day, I think he was in Shinra too with his good buddy theenslaver who now is a gm? maybe dev don't remember which. Also one of the reasons if I remember right that chowdown has his Titan. You see, when you get free T2 bpo's and have friends who would be affected by CCP losing subs you MUST defend feverishly the actions of those who keep you going in game.
of course I could be thinking bout the wrong BoBit =)
No, thats me. I've also been outed as a GM by XirtamVOTF back in the day.
Lall - THE Vocal Minority - Reikoku
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ISIAM
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Posted - 2008.10.14 20:22:00 -
[2571]
Originally by: Lallante
Originally by: Medusa d'Mon From Revelations patch notes:
'On the Serenity server, skills no longer train when the owning account is deactivated. Tranquility is not affected by this change.'
If the so called 'bug' was fixable on Serenity way back then, why wasn't the same 'bug' fixed on Tranquility at the same time?
Just a guess here, looking at the 84 page thread... Fear of community reaction?
Which is now outweighed by the huge number of people (ab)using it. (which, by the way, included myself; ive resubbed only because of this change).
Well now it's obvious you work for C.C.P.
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Baron Houshay
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 20:22:00 -
[2572]
Back to the topic at hand please..
was asking about all the ghost training time from the last 5 years that was a bug, is it gone now?
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Haniblecter Teg
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Posted - 2008.10.14 20:23:00 -
[2573]
"Waaah, I cant skate around paying sub anymore" ----------------- Friends Forever |
BIind
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Posted - 2008.10.14 20:23:00 -
[2574]
Originally by: Chaos Incarnate
Quote: CCP may find it necessary on occasion to make changes to or reset certain parameters of the persistent game world mechanics, interface or features of EVE Online in order to maintain game balance and enhance playability or performance for its subscribers. These changes may affect or cause setbacks for the characters you've created.
http://www.eve-online.com/pnp/terms.asp
Mhm.
I'm not sold on the "maintain game balance and enhance playability or performance for its subscribers" aspect of this move.
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Feng Pai
Caldari Blue Box Corporation Liberty Alliance
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Posted - 2008.10.14 20:23:00 -
[2575]
I can't be bothered to read this whole thread as I have a life. :P I would just like to point out one thing however. In terms of game balance isn't it unfair that ghost training is being lost now? I would be gloating now if I had multiple accounts that had been running 5 years or so, after all, I'd have done a stack of training (some of it ghost training) and I'd know that any knew player would have to spend a fortune to do the same, poor suckers! Still, I haven't, so I'm one of the poor suckers, and if I had, I'd be faced with having to choose what characters to keep playing, if any.
Even a ghost training limit would be better, if it was set at the same sort of time as the smallest (60 day)GTC then each character would have to be active for at least half of realtime.
Ah, hell, I'm past giving a damn, but CCP need to try to remember that more MMO's turn up daily. If I find my account has to go down for a while coz I'm a bit short, I'll spend the time on free trials to see how much I like the others.
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Tabare Vazquez
Uruguay Forever
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Posted - 2008.10.14 20:23:00 -
[2576]
Originally by: Medusa d'Mon From Revelations patch notes:
'On the Serenity server, skills no longer train when the owning account is deactivated. Tranquility is not affected by this change.'
If the so called 'bug' was fixable on Serenity way back then, why wasn't the same 'bug' fixed on Tranquility at the same time?
This, this is the best post in this thread. Right here, above my own line.
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Zinnn
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 20:24:00 -
[2577]
Catherine Frasier is working for CCP.
I don't know anyone so tenacious and saying the same thing over and over again, and NOT be paid for it. She refuses to recognize that people feel betrayed, duped into playing more eve online (with the power of two), and that people have a valid reason to be upset when a game mechanic they think is important is removed from the game without any input from gamers beforehand. Therefore replayability is severely limited, plain and simple.
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Mallikan
Gallente Plundering Penguins Anarchy.
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Posted - 2008.10.14 20:24:00 -
[2578]
Originally by: Wrathraker This is in response to what was posted by CCP t0rfifrans here http://myeve.eve-online.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&bid=592
Since beta and the days of Castor being able to train was touted by CCP as a feature and not a liability like it is now. This is what was said and quoted by CCP in the beginning that set your game apart from other games that were out there at the time. You said then, and I am looking through Google with a fine tooth comb to bust you on this, that this was a "FEATURE" and that it was something that was never going to be removed from the game.
In addition to that, I also stress that this gives the veteran players a HUGE boost while the new players will not receive the same treatment.
Also, if it was left in the game, IT WOULD STILL BE BALANCED! The ability to do this, and keep it in the game, keeps everyone on equal ground. By removing it, you change the very thing you are saying you are trying to fix.
AND...for the long time players like myself, that have multiple accounts, we have always been doing this, and plan the way to play the game based on what CCP says will be coming in the FUTURE developments of the game. Without CCP saying what is coming in the future, the players can not plan. By taking this away from the players, you just make it harder for us to play the game, make our logistics take even longer, make the game more like WORK and overall ruin the player experience.
This is total B***S*** CCP and you know it!
Think I am kidding? Look up my account info, see how many accounts I have, and see how many I have after you do this.
Cry moar? LOL... this made me smile. Thanks to people like you that are dumb enough to make the rest of us laugh! --- lol.. I messed up.
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Siona Windweaver
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Posted - 2008.10.14 20:25:00 -
[2579]
Edited by: Siona Windweaver on 14/10/2008 20:25:03 Thread got stealth nerfed!
You can't see it from EVE Information Portal anymore :P
Edit: Seems everything gets bugged today :P
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BIind
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Posted - 2008.10.14 20:25:00 -
[2580]
Originally by: Siona Windweaver Edited by: Siona Windweaver on 14/10/2008 20:25:03 Thread got stealth nerfed!
You can't see it from EVE Information Portal anymore :P
Edit: Seems everything gets bugged today :P
we know, right?
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ISIAM
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 20:26:00 -
[2581]
Originally by: Soma Khan
Originally by: ISIAM
Originally by: Sahara Eternity Edited by: Sahara Eternity on 14/10/2008 19:55:00 Edited by: Sahara Eternity on 14/10/2008 19:54:18
Originally by: Lallante That may be true, but CCP have never said they didnt want us to use the unintended feature while it was possible to do so. In fact, the implication is they didnt mind us using it. This has absolutely ZERO baring on whether they intended to change it.
eXcuse me ... who are you ? You have 8 post in the last 30 posts on this thread ... Are you a CCP official ? If not stop posting and let people tell theyr story, if yes log in your main please.
EDIT: You beat me to it, make that 9 posts on 2 pages ... Opps added 1 more ...
INDEED. (..)
Upset that your arguments fall apart when subjected to reality and logic? Looking for ways to inject more tinfoil-hattery into this thread to cover up the lack of any coherent thoughts from your side?
HowÆs this one: CCP hid this thread from the general public out of embarrassment for the kinds of ******s their game attracts.
Do you work for C.C.P. ?
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Siona Windweaver
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 20:26:00 -
[2582]
Originally by: BIind
Originally by: Siona Windweaver Edited by: Siona Windweaver on 14/10/2008 20:25:03 Thread got stealth nerfed!
You can't see it from EVE Information Portal anymore :P
Edit: Seems everything gets bugged today :P
we know, right?
Just putting on this page for the record
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Shar Tegral
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 20:27:00 -
[2583]
Edited by: Shar Tegral on 14/10/2008 21:14:03
Refers to moderated post - MitnalHey, stop screwing up my forum tags when you moderate me - Shar Tegral Originally by: The Ubernomicon The only reason you don't want that image displayed is that it is makes light of CCP's terrible customer service and the recent direction they have been going.
Every time I've seen that image I've reported it. It breaks the forums - I use disabled software to assist me in reading the forums. Also it unnecessarily eats up bandwidth that I don't care to share with you. (You do know that metered service exists in many locations yes?) That being said, I lol'd the first time I saw it. That's the only lol you got. Still reported it the first time I saw it and have reported every forum breaking image or post made. And I have read every post so far in both thread-naughts. Please, to boost my ego, suggest I work for CCP. I don't think you could issue a greater insult to CCP than to make that suggestion. (They love me even less than the emo-ragers/quitters/trollers.)
To Shar -verb: 1 - To say what you mean. 2 - To say what it means. 3 - To say something mean. |
Emerald Cortess
Caldari Konstrukteure der Zukunft
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Posted - 2008.10.14 20:28:00 -
[2584]
My Acc will end at thursday and i planned a eve-break to focus more on studying. Ghost-Training doesn't have a influence on this decision wether to make this break or not, but it for me, it always had a strong influence on my decision of subscribing again. Thanks CCP, u made the decision to look at some other things than eve easier.
No, u can't have my stuff, it's back in the Corp-Assets.
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Mr Patches
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Posted - 2008.10.14 20:28:00 -
[2585]
Originally by: Lallante This is my main. If you havnt heard of me, it simply means you havnt been playing Eve long enough. You dont control the forums, you dont decide who posts. Go away
Such hubris.
But to be fair, if you were a dev you would know who he is.
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Annaphera
Minmatar Super Green Industries
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Posted - 2008.10.14 20:31:00 -
[2586]
Edited by: Annaphera on 14/10/2008 20:33:43 Just a note to everyone who is yelling about a "ninja edit" in the players guide. What would have made you happy, hmm? It was left for almost a full day after the announcement. Then, because more people would have had hysterics if the change had been implemented without changing the guide, the guide was changed to reflect the way the game would behave in less than 24 hours. Had they delayed until even one minute after the patch was implemented, this forum would have sprouted a different river of flame, yelling about how it was listed in the guide but wasn't in the game, and "why can't CCP keep the guide up to date?"
If it had been a real ninja edit, it would have vanished either before the change was announced, or immediately when it was mentioned here. Either that, or CCP has some damned lazy ninjas. I don't think they missed that fact that dozens of people were screaming in here that they took screenshots of the page so there was "proof" (not sure of what, exactly, but...); they probably figured there was no reason to court another problem by waiting any longer.
So...apparently, with people here it's damned if you do, damned if you don't. I don't think the rest of the Eve community will miss you.
Now, I think I'll check back in two days and get a few laughs at the people who missed the news item and start screaming that "no one reads the news".
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wert668
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 20:31:00 -
[2587]
You really starting to **** me off. Year by year you making more and more crap. I just starting to hate every word you say.
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Huan Hunglong
Intensive CareBearz
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 20:31:00 -
[2588]
Originally by: Lallante
Originally by: James Marshalll Edited by: James Marshalll on 14/10/2008 20:20:02
Originally by: Waynetta Slob
Originally by: Lallante This is my main. If you havnt heard of me, it simply means you havnt been playing Eve long enough. You dont control the forums, you dont decide who posts. Go away
omfg.
Yea if you didn't know he paid kugutsumen to hack goons forums back in the day, I think he was in Shinra too with his good buddy theenslaver who now is a gm? maybe dev don't remember which. Also one of the reasons if I remember right that chowdown has his Titan. You see, when you get free T2 bpo's and have friends who would be affected by CCP losing subs you MUST defend feverishly the actions of those who keep you going in game.
of course I could be thinking bout the wrong BoBit =)
No, thats me. I've also been outed as a GM by XirtamVOTF back in the day.
Perhaps Xirt was right for once in his life!
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Catherine Frasier
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 20:31:00 -
[2589]
Edited by: Catherine Frasier on 14/10/2008 20:39:50
Originally by: Zinnn Catherine Frasier is working for CCP.
I don't know anyone so tenacious and saying the same thing over and over again, and NOT be paid for it.
Woo hoo! I hope that means they've got a cheque in the mail to me.
(Hey! CCP! I want $CAN, none of that waste-paper ISK!)
Originally by: Zinnn She refuses to recognize that people feel betrayed, duped into playing more eve online (with the power of two), and that people have a valid reason to be upset
Sure people feel betrayed, duped, etc... What I don't recognize is that they have anything like a valid reason to feel that way.
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The Ubernomicon
Eight year old girls GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.10.14 20:32:00 -
[2590]
Originally by: Shar Tegral Refers to moderated post - Mitnal
The only reason you don't want that image displayed is that it is makes light of CCP's terrible customer service and the recent direction they have been going.
Every time I've seen that image I've reported it. It breaks the forums - I use disabled software to assist me in reading the forums. Also it unnecessarily eats up bandwidth that I don't care to share with you. (You do know that metered service exists in many locations yes?)
That being said, I lol'd the first time I saw it. That's the only lol you got. Still reported it the first time I saw it and have reported every forum breaking image or post made. And I have read every post so far in both thread-naughts.
Please, to boost my ego, suggest I work for CCP. I don't think you could issue a greater insult to CCP than to make that suggestion.
(They love me even less than the emo-ragers/quitters/trollers.)[/justify]
CCP added the ability to hide images. I recommend you check your forum settings.
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CliveMerric
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Posted - 2008.10.14 20:32:00 -
[2591]
ccp please let us know if you plan on implmemeting this change still.
i need to know so i can cancel my accounts Clives BPC shop, Great deals!! |
StealthGerbils
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Posted - 2008.10.14 20:32:00 -
[2592]
I AM 100% AGAINST THIS CHANGE
DO NOT PROCEED ERASE ANY MENTION OF THIS INCIDENT NO ONE WILL MIND INFACT WE WOULD LOVE YOU GUYS!
That said, I can see where they are coming from. In fact, I added up all the skills that I ghost trained on my main, and it ended up being at least 12,544,000 SP. Imagine a new player having to train all that normally in game. They may as well not even begin.
It is going to suck to have to pay CCP $30 just to sit on a jump clone and train something like command ships V or any cap ship to V, not being able to play a game you pay for because you do not want to risk losing 500m isk worth of implants or more.
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Ha'Uler
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Posted - 2008.10.14 20:32:00 -
[2593]
Originally by: Shar Tegral Refers to moderated post - Mitnal
The only reason you don't want that image displayed is that it is makes light of CCP's terrible customer service and the recent direction they have been going.
Every time I've seen that image I've reported it. It breaks the forums - I use disabled software to assist me in reading the forums. Also it unnecessarily eats up bandwidth that I don't care to share with you. (You do know that metered service exists in many locations yes?)
That being said, I lol'd the first time I saw it. That's the only lol you got. Still reported it the first time I saw it and have reported every forum breaking image or post made. And I have read every post so far in both thread-naughts.
Please, to boost my ego, suggest I work for CCP. I don't think you could issue a greater insult to CCP than to make that suggestion.
(They love me even less than the emo-ragers/quitters/trollers.)[/justify]
If tiny images and bandwidth usage are so important for you, you should change your settings.
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Huan Hunglong
Intensive CareBearz
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Posted - 2008.10.14 20:33:00 -
[2594]
Originally by: Mr Patches
Originally by: Lallante This is my main. If you havnt heard of me, it simply means you havnt been playing Eve long enough. You dont control the forums, you dont decide who posts. Go away
Such hubris.
But to be fair, if you were a dev you would know who he is.
Yeah, hed be under 'L' on your MSN list.
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Aaah
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Posted - 2008.10.14 20:34:00 -
[2595]
This patch killing all new players. New player have not any chance to train multiple characters. I think this patch is a beginning of the eve death
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t0tum
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Posted - 2008.10.14 20:35:00 -
[2596]
We all know EVE, unlike any other mmo, is not new player base dependant. It is long time, experienced players who keep CCP afloat with countless amounts of alts. And lets not forget forum GTCÆs sellers who feed the rest with their time codes. This new change will trash the alts upkeep and will not be backed up by new player flow!
Tomorrow, when CCP implements this, it means they care shit about what u think and ur subscription loss is acceptable to them. I just wanna stick around and see how this fail will roll out and admire the downfall.
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Catherine Frasier
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Posted - 2008.10.14 20:37:00 -
[2597]
Originally by: Aaah This patch killing all new players. New player have not any chance to train multiple characters.
Unless, you know, they pay for them.
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BleuSc
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Posted - 2008.10.14 20:37:00 -
[2598]
Originally by: CCP t0rfifrans But recently we have seen a surge in this behavior [ghost training]...
Surely this has nothing to do with the GTC price... changes in the summer (both in ISK and in RL money), hmm?
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ISIAM
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Posted - 2008.10.14 20:38:00 -
[2599]
Originally by: Aaah This patch killing all new players. New player have not any chance to train multiple characters. I think this patch is a beginning of the eve death
I second.
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Mallikan
Gallente Plundering Penguins Anarchy.
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Posted - 2008.10.14 20:38:00 -
[2600]
Originally by: Zanquis
As soon as they get that bloody account page online, I am canceling both my accounts which are currently active. Will I return? I do not know, I do not like to be lied to. This is a cash grab, and I resent you calling this a bug and implying I am an exploiter for using something you put in your god damn player guide.
Bye!! --- lol.. I messed up.
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Shard Merchant
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.10.14 20:40:00 -
[2601]
To recap..
- Release a short news bit regarding widespread and significant change that would occur in 48 hours.
- Buried with other news minutes later.
- 50 pages of posting follow, discussing the legitimacy of this change as per the reasons given.
- Locked 50 pages of posts because a blog was posted, that repeats the same message.
- Dev blog mentions the 'business side' of this move, which the news post omitted.
- 70 pages of new postings follow.
- Thread disappears from Information Portal. Players find it and continue posting.
- Player guide gets edited to remove controversial remarks.
Without discussing the removal of "ghost training" specifically, what we have here is an attempt to pull a fast one on the players. It is easily the biggest attempted ninja nerf in the history of this game. Your customers deserve:
- More than two days of warning, so they can find out about the changes and plan accordingly
- More visible warning, like the login screen MOTD
- More transparency and honesty about the reasons by discussing all the reasons
Hard decisions are always hard, but how you handle them determines if you gain or lose respect. The player is going to feel screwed by changes that affect them poorly, and this is the equivalent of adding insult to injury.
A lot of people are willing to defend this company regardless of what they do (4S name change, t20 scandal), but this community was built on a common respect for the makers of this game even if they didn't always agree. That was eons ago.
You might not see a dip in subscriber counts, but you'll see an increase in player churn that requires more marketing money to support. You not only lose massive amounts of free word of mouth advertising, but scare away players with the amount of ex-EVE types that leave disgruntled at something you did. _______________________________________________ CCP CENSORSHIP ALERT: CAN YOU SPOT IT? |
Creepin
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Posted - 2008.10.14 20:41:00 -
[2602]
The most disgusting in all this issue is that CCP preferred to hide behind half-cooked lie which is believed by no-one anyway instead of honestly standing up saying "hey, now we need more money, oh precious cash-cows!"
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Jocho
Caldari Warped Mining
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Posted - 2008.10.14 20:42:00 -
[2603]
Originally by: Catherine Frasier
Originally by: Zinnn Catherine Frasier is working for CCP.
I don't know anyone so tenacious and saying the same thing over and over again, and NOT be paid for it.
Woo hoo! I hope that means the've got a cheque in the mail to me.
(Hey! CCP! I want $CAN, none of that waste-paper ISK!)
Originally by: Zinnn She refuses to recognize that people feel betrayed, duped into playing more eve online (with the power of two), and that people have a valid reason to be upset
Sure people feel betrayed, duped, etc... What I don't recognize is that they have anything like a valid reason to feel that way.
They have a valid reason as it was a feature eve was sold to them on! It was on the character training page up too late last night (which has now been edited), and CCP workers have made past comments stating that it would be kept in. This shows that it blatantly is not a bug, and so for CCP to turn around and say otherwise, its obviously just for more cash, and yet offering the player less. Also it gives older players a massive advantage over newer ones.
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ISIAM
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Posted - 2008.10.14 20:42:00 -
[2604]
Originally by: Catherine Frasier
Originally by: Aaah This patch killing all new players. New player have not any chance to train multiple characters.
Unless, you know, they pay for them.
Yea, it will only take them years and years and thousands and thousands of dollars.
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Yakumo Smith
Gallente When Darkness Falls
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Posted - 2008.10.14 20:44:00 -
[2605]
Originally by: Shard Merchant To recap..
- Release a short news bit regarding widespread and significant change that would occur in 48 hours.
- Buried with other news minutes later.
- 50 pages of posting follow, discussing the legitimacy of this change as per the reasons given.
- Locked 50 pages of posts because a blog was posted, that repeats the same message.
- Dev blog mentions the 'business side' of this move, which the news post omitted.
- 70 pages of new postings follow.
- Thread disappears from Information Portal. Players find it and continue posting.
- Player guide gets edited to remove controversial remarks.
Without discussing the removal of "ghost training" specifically, what we have here is an attempt to pull a fast one on the players. It is easily the biggest attempted ninja nerf in the history of this game. Your customers deserve:
- More than two days of warning, so they can find out about the changes and plan accordingly
- More visible warning, like the login screen MOTD
- More transparency and honesty about the reasons by discussing all the reasons
Hard decisions are always hard, but how you handle them determines if you gain or lose respect. The player is going to feel screwed by changes that affect them poorly, and this is the equivalent of adding insult to injury.
A lot of people are willing to defend this company regardless of what they do (4S name change, t20 scandal), but this community was built on a common respect for the makers of this game even if they didn't always agree. That was eons ago.
You might not see a dip in subscriber counts, but you'll see an increase in player churn that requires more marketing money to support. You not only lose massive amounts of free word of mouth advertising, but scare away players with the amount of ex-EVE types that leave disgruntled at something you did.
signed, nice summary.
In other news my bio was invaded by one of the CCP lag ghosts :( Turns out ghosts do slow you down.
I suppose this must be my sig. I'll do something cool with it eventually. |
StealthGerbils
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Posted - 2008.10.14 20:44:00 -
[2606]
I support them removing ghost training if they give every character a free lvl V skill of their choice (excluding rank 12 and above to make it more fair)
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Shar Tegral
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Posted - 2008.10.14 20:45:00 -
[2607]
Originally by: The Ubernomicon CCP added the ability to hide images. I recommend you check your forum settings.
Originally by: Ha'Uler If tiny images and bandwidth usage are so important for you, you should change your settings.
[ sarcasm] Ah yes, I should go limit myself simply because others can't limit themselves. A perfect solution. [ /sarcasm] I love many of the signature banners that people create. Also, many people do share images that provide information and can somehow figure out how to do so without breaking the forums or the forum rules. So I'll reiterate, why should I diminish who I am simply because others can't seem to maintain any self control or exercise restraint? Mind you if the community had exercised some restraint over subbing it wouldn't have been so heavily farmed in the first place and we wouldn't be here. Wait, who am I kidding. This community spawns whining like .... ... ... Damn I can't think of anything to match the quantity of whining this community does.
To Shar -verb: 1 - To say what you mean. 2 - To say what it means. 3 - To say something mean. |
Ratio Legis
Slacker Industries
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Posted - 2008.10.14 20:45:00 -
[2608]
Originally by: Catherine Frasier Sure people feel betrayed, duped, etc... What I don't recognize is that they have anything like a valid reason to feel that way.
And it never came into your mind that actually the moron might be you and not everyone else?
How about having the price of the service increased for no good reason, without sufficient prior warning and just after a promotion campaign that capitalized on the fact the price increase was not made public before it? Also, how about deceived and treated like halfwits by CCP's attempts at PR?
And, lastly, how about having to deal with trolls like yourself in a thread about an issue that's about as clear cut as it can ever get?
Maybe you should read that blog again yourself, especially the part where it says
Originally by: CCP t0rfifrans Now I'm not saying that if me personally would be at the other end of this Dev Blog I wouldn't be annoyed by CCP's actions.
I guess he says that for nothing like a valid reason...
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Thesiuss
Oberon Incorporated Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2008.10.14 20:46:00 -
[2609]
I too had planned to set a really long skill train as I took a break. I've done so in the past and it was a good reason for me to eventually come back to eve.
Now I won't have that one thing to help draw me back after 5 years of playing.
Might as well move all my assets into corp hangers just incase I don't come back now.
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Nathan Stahn
State War Academy
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Posted - 2008.10.14 20:46:00 -
[2610]
Originally by: Shar Tegral
Originally by: The Ubernomicon CCP added the ability to hide images. I recommend you check your forum settings.
Originally by: Ha'Uler If tiny images and bandwidth usage are so important for you, you should change your settings.
[ sarcasm] Ah yes, I should go limit myself simply because others can't limit themselves. A perfect solution. [ /sarcasm] I love many of the signature banners that people create. Also, many people do share images that provide information and can somehow figure out how to do so without breaking the forums or the forum rules. So I'll reiterate, why should I diminish who I am simply because others can't seem to maintain any self control or exercise restraint? Mind you if the community had exercised some restraint over subbing it wouldn't have been so heavily farmed in the first place and we wouldn't be here. Wait, who am I kidding. This community spawns whining like .... ... ... Damn I can't think of anything to match the quantity of whining this community does.
Your logic is flawless.
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Catherine Frasier
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Posted - 2008.10.14 20:46:00 -
[2611]
Originally by: Shard Merchant - Player guide gets edited to remove controversial remarks.
I think you mean player guide gets updated to both reflect the new mechanism and to explicitly highlight the fact that it has changed. (It says "the skill will no longer continue to train on inactive accounts", hardly a disinformation campaign.)
When the guide was not update eleventy thousand people screamed: "That's not what it says in the guide!!!"
When the guide is updated : "You sneaky bastards are trying a ninja-edit to remove controversial remarks!!!"
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BIind
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Posted - 2008.10.14 20:46:00 -
[2612]
Originally by: ISIAM
Originally by: Catherine Frasier
Originally by: Aaah This patch killing all new players. New player have not any chance to train multiple characters.
Unless, you know, they pay for them.
Yea, it will only take them years and years and thousands and thousands of dollars.
You could still buy a char from the supposed ghost training farmers while stock lasts.
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Mallikan
Gallente Plundering Penguins Anarchy.
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Posted - 2008.10.14 20:46:00 -
[2613]
Originally by: Lag Subscription canceled (Ironic that it was supposed to renew on 10/17).
Bye now, have a nice life! Hugs and kisses. --- lol.. I messed up.
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chotaire
Caldari The Rising Stars Cosmic Anomalies
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Posted - 2008.10.14 20:47:00 -
[2614]
Originally by: The Ubernomicon
Originally by: Shar Tegral Refers to moderated post - Mitnal
The only reason you don't want that image displayed is that it is makes light of CCP's terrible customer service and the recent direction they have been going.
Every time I've seen that image I've reported it. It breaks the forums - I use disabled software to assist me in reading the forums. Also it unnecessarily eats up bandwidth that I don't care to share with you. (You do know that metered service exists in many locations yes?)
That being said, I lol'd the first time I saw it. That's the only lol you got. Still reported it the first time I saw it and have reported every forum breaking image or post made. And I have read every post so far in both thread-naughts.
Please, to boost my ego, suggest I work for CCP. I don't think you could issue a greater insult to CCP than to make that suggestion.
(They love me even less than the emo-ragers/quitters/trollers.)[/justify]
CCP added the ability to hide images. I recommend you check your forum settings.
Even better, pictures get cached on disk, as done by all standard browsers on any computing platform. Unless you disable your browser cache (your own fault), there is no reason to post useless comments, Shar.
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NereSky
Gallente Trinity Nova Trinity Nova Alliance
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Posted - 2008.10.14 20:48:00 -
[2615]
Edited by: NereSky on 14/10/2008 20:51:02 Looks in after last post from this morning - still notes no CCP response - i still assume that their heads are still buried in the sand possibly getting their 'Teflon' coated T-Shirts resized after putting on weight from sitting on their posteriors all yr round pocketing our subs.
Oh and dare i say that maybe CCP should rename their Company Logo from 'We care more We work harder' to 'We couldnt care less, Talk to the hand'
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Dire Radiant
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Posted - 2008.10.14 20:48:00 -
[2616]
Edited by: Dire Radiant on 14/10/2008 20:50:59 dbl post
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Animenick
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Posted - 2008.10.14 20:49:00 -
[2617]
This game is great and CCP does a great job, but this is over the line, especially locking and deleting threads. I understand it is a company, but It's sole purpose is to provide entertainment and it seems like that goal is being put on the backburner.
MESSAGE TO CCP: You will get NOWHERE by ostracizing your user base and treating them like prisoners. A surefire way to lose money in the long run. If this keeps up I will be canceling one of my accounts. I wouldn't mind suspending both my accounts for a month in opposition to current trends.
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Dire Radiant
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Posted - 2008.10.14 20:49:00 -
[2618]
Originally by: Catherine Frasier
Originally by: Shard Merchant - Player guide gets edited to remove controversial remarks.
I think you mean player guide gets updated to both reflect the new mechanism and to explicitly highlight the fact that it has changed. (It says "the skill will no longer continue to train on inactive accounts", hardly a disinformation campaign.)
When the guide was not update eleventy thousand people screamed: "That's not what it says in the guide!!!"
When the guide is updated : "You sneaky bastards are trying a ninja-edit to remove controversial remarks!!!"
That it was a portrayed as a feature in the guide shows that it is not actually a bug at all. This whole sham being put forth as a bug fix is just a crock. Its a money grab plain and simple.
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chotaire
Caldari The Rising Stars Cosmic Anomalies
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Posted - 2008.10.14 20:49:00 -
[2619]
Originally by: StealthGerbils I support them removing ghost training if they give every character a free lvl V skill of their choice (excluding rank 12 and above to make it more fair)
omg, this is hilarious.
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floater666
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Posted - 2008.10.14 20:49:00 -
[2620]
Just by speaking to a few people and my decision this is the start of your greedy stupid company's colapse.
Since you have barely improved on gameplay, or even worsened it over the past few years (hello kitty online with spaceships), for many of us the only thing that made us pay new top dollars for each of our accounts to see the new level5 completed so that we can see some slightly less borring stuff for a while again.
Not to mention extra accounts that surely made big bucks for you in the past years. Many of those will become unprofitable joy vs money for many.
Now that you will loose a lot of dollars, you have to cut budget, even less improvements -> everyone leaves.
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Catherine Frasier
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Posted - 2008.10.14 20:51:00 -
[2621]
Originally by: Ratio Legis And it never came into your mind that actually the moron might be you and not everyone else?
Nope, instead I read what was actually said. There's no lie, no betrayal, no valid reason to emorage. There is however a selfish and petty reason to throw a tantrum.
Doesn't take Sherlock Holmes to puzzle it out.
Originally by: Ratio Legis
Originally by: CCP t0rfifrans Now I'm not saying that if me personally would be at the other end of this Dev Blog I wouldn't be annoyed by CCP's actions.
I guess he says that for nothing like a valid reason...
That's exactly right. So rage on, but don't expect me to feel sorry for you or for CCP to back down because of it.
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Hugh Ruka
Exploratio et Industria Morispatia
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Posted - 2008.10.14 20:51:00 -
[2622]
I loled
ok I ghosted 2 skills (cruise missiles l5 and one of my l5 BS skills, don't remember which one). But that was pure coincidence because those breaks would have happened anyway ...
I see a bad trend CCP is starting ... first the GTC change and then this. You should at least be honest enough to admit this is done just for the money. Leave the other fluff just as a background picture ... --- SIG --- CSM: your support is needed ! |
Jikiya
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Posted - 2008.10.14 20:52:00 -
[2623]
I wouldn't be against this removal if they'd said "Hey, the Icelandic economy really sucks right now, we need more revenue to stay afloat," but disguising it as a bug, well...
...that just seems unfair.
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Therem Harth
Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2008.10.14 20:52:00 -
[2624]
Personally, I am most offended by this move in two ways:
1) It completely beats me why the announcement was chosen to be a "bold" lie. It was a bug, we need to remove an unfair advantage, fix game balance, blah-blah-blah. You know, people here have read your player guide... Jesus, lots of us here been with your for years, why was it necessary to invent lame excuses? We also read news and know that Iceland is in an acute financial crisis, and we know CCP is an Icelandic company, it doesn't take an expert to add two and two. And it has taken a hurricane of forum complaints, and a lock on it, to get this devblog which has attempted, AGAIN, to bury the only meaningful sentence, - "We figure out how to maximize our returns.", - in a flurry of new excuses about suddenly bogged down database system. Perhaps fleet lag is also caused by ghost training, which has been found to magically circumvent all the new stackless advances in the art?
2) if we for a second forget about the lying, it would have also take perhaps a small, not really intensive brainstorm for CCP creatives (heck, you employ a full time economist, aren't you?) to find out a better way to implement this measure. How about simply limiting the time you can ghost train? 31 day of non-payment and your training stops. That way, you can't train Doomsday Operation 5 without paying, but you can go on vacation and not worry about a 5-day lapse in training on your BS 5 skill, simply because your time code expired while you were away, or whatnot. But no, there was zero creativity spent on solving this issue. Whoa, there's lots of freeloaders hugging our database storage, let's go kick them all out.
Personal conclusion:
I have never used ghost training unless by accident and for a few days only. But for the reasons above, I have cancelled subscription on all three of my active accounts, and I personally know dozens of people who will do that for much bigger amount of accounts, meaning CCP is not going to get ANY revenue from those people again. And at least half of those people actively campaign for more cancellations. You will have more space on database storage, though.
There is a proverb in Russian, which goes like this: if you spit on a crowd, they will wipe their faces; but if a crowd spits on you - you will drown. Ironically, one would expect that with company names like yours, you should know this by heart. --
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Dire Radiant
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Posted - 2008.10.14 20:53:00 -
[2625]
Quote: Ghost Training was an unintended feature where unpaid accounts of EVE Online were able to continue training skills.
Ghost Training is a feature that was being used as a selling point to grab more subscribers. Unintended or not, it brought in more subscriptions.
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Mallikan
Gallente Plundering Penguins Anarchy.
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Posted - 2008.10.14 20:53:00 -
[2626]
Originally by: ViolenTUK This is the worst most appalling and ghastly idea I have seen CCP implement so abruptly in the time I have spent with this game.
There is no justifiable reason to implement this idea now. For CCP to cover it up with the rouge that ôGhostö training is an exploit is an insult. ôGhostö training has been and advertised feature, which has been a deciding factor for many to subscribe to an account. I am simply not interested in the explanation that it was an unintentional bug, which has been used by players. This Feature, which CCP has advertised, has been used for 5 years now and it is deplorable to suddenly withdraw it with virtually no warning.
We will see whether CCP have made a bad move by noting the active subscriptions over the forthcoming months.
If you were any more flamboyant about the wording used here, I would actually miss you. Any recommendations for a good Thesaurus like your's? More to the point, I believe it was the INTERNET SPACESHIPS that drew the most people to the game. I am pretty sure people don't flock to EVE so that they can -not- play with characters. After you get done with your dictionary, try playing the game, it's neat. There's shooting and trading.. lots of fun. --- lol.. I messed up.
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MILK Monk
2nd Blood Raven Assault Squad
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Posted - 2008.10.14 20:53:00 -
[2627]
I will tell you something from my POV... I am young in EVE thus I have fun with one account and so far no need to pause playing and Ghost Train. I was just about thinking about buying another account. But what I wanted to say is that when I heard about this first then I told to myself - "Well who cares? It is good that it was here so long... at least". Then I realized that there will be masacre on forums.. and I was sure right :D ...
You people saying that this move will remove subscribers, well yes... some of you will drop their 3rd and 4th chars, but I am quite sure that most of you will keep the second one, as it is often needed (and as some more clever have already written above me). Also this is CHANGE, as every change in human history also this rise huge emotions, few days maybe weeks later you will all calm down, this univers will be still the same place, new players will be returning, some veterans leaving... you will simply get used to it.
One bad thing is fact that this could be good reason to come back after you need to have a break from EVE - well now you will return later or never, but I would bet few iskies that you will return anyway even that your char will be still the same as you left it.
Second bad thing is that it really look stupid to call something as a bug while you was using this as one of your marketing moves.
Overall, I very much belive CCP did analysis of possible impact when applying this change... or do you REALLY think that not?? __________________________________ I do it myyyy wayyyy... Milky Way. |
Jocho
Caldari Warped Mining
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Posted - 2008.10.14 20:53:00 -
[2628]
Originally by: Catherine Frasier
Originally by: Ratio Legis And it never came into your mind that actually the moron might be you and not everyone else?
Nope, instead I read what was actually said. There's no lie, no betrayal, no valid reason to emorage. There is however a selfish and petty reason to throw a tantrum.
Doesn't take Sherlock Holmes to puzzle it out.
Originally by: Ratio Legis
Originally by: CCP t0rfifrans Now I'm not saying that if me personally would be at the other end of this Dev Blog I wouldn't be annoyed by CCP's actions.
I guess he says that for nothing like a valid reason...
That's exactly right. So rage on, but don't expect me to feel sorry for you or for CCP to back down because of it.
If this is so, then please, please, please enlighten everyone with how ghost training is "unfair" and causes an "inbalance" with eve
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Catherine Frasier
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Posted - 2008.10.14 20:54:00 -
[2629]
Originally by: Dire Radiant That it was a portrayed as a feature in the guide shows that it is not actually a bug at all.
No. It was an unintended feature which was, in effect, a bug. Documenting it doesn't change that.
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Freezehunter
Gallente O.W.N. Corp OWN Alliance
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Posted - 2008.10.14 20:54:00 -
[2630]
I am with CCP on this one...
I've been playing eve for almost two years and i've never had more than one Account and this character...
Iceland is going through very tough financial problems and CCP is icelandic, so i understand their reasons...
Also, all you *******s with 3+ ccounts, stop being so full of bull, you have billions of ISK and ENORMOUS advantages over someone like me, with only one account, like scouts, cyno alts, mining help, etc...
Now you can stop being greedy ****s in the game and spend your billions on GTC's for your alt accounts and stop ghost training...
You want more accounts? PAY for more accounts... I couldn't afford more than one, and i only played on one...
And for all those that wanna leave, fine, and send me your stuff, i am struggling to get money for cap ship skills anyway...
|
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Amjax
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 20:56:00 -
[2631]
Just like to say that the removal of ghost training is total *******s imo.
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The Ubernomicon
Eight year old girls GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 20:57:00 -
[2632]
Originally by: Freezehunter I am with CCP on this one...
I've been playing eve for almost two years and i've never had more than one Account and this character...
Iceland is going through very tough financial problems and CCP is icelandic, so i understand their reasons...
Also, all you *******s with 3+ ccounts, stop being so full of bull, you have billions of ISK and ENORMOUS advantages over someone like me, with only one account, like scouts, cyno alts, mining help, etc...
Now you can stop being greedy ****s in the game and spend your billions on GTC's for your alt accounts and stop ghost training...
You want more accounts? PAY for more accounts... I couldn't afford more than one, and i only played on one...
And for all those that wanna leave, fine, and send me your stuff, i am struggling to get money for cap ship skills anyway...
More like "OWNED Alliance".
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Fastlane Heartbeat
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 20:58:00 -
[2633]
Based of true story
*ding ding!*
Wrangler: Hello there and welcome to the CCP! How can i help you? Customer: I wish to complain! Wrangler: Righto sir, and the issue is? Customer: This nano nerf you're about to-- Wrangler: Hold up. Nano? Customer: Yes, you're about to-- Wrangler: Right. Continue. Customer: Well, as i was saying, the nano nerf you're about to-- Wrangler: ****ie head. Customer: Excuse me?! Wrangler: You heard me. ****ie head. Customer: How da-- Wrangler: Stupid says what. Customer: What?! Wrangler: Haha! You're a stupid ****iehead! Customer: Look, how is this-- Wrangler: Moooooom! ****iehead is making funny faces!! Eris: Don't drag me into this... Customer: Look here! Wrangler: Pull my finger! Customer: No! Wrangler: Waaaaaaaah!! Customer: What are you-- Wrangler throws a teddy at customer. Customer: Hey!! Wrangler: Can a have a wowwipop? Customer: Wowwi...what?! Look i want to com-- Wrangler: ****iehead and a goonie, sitting in a tree, k i s s i n Customer: You're acting like a baby!! Wrangler: See how it feels? Customer: ... Wrangler grins. Customer: Cheap.
*ding ding*
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Tito Sajic
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Posted - 2008.10.14 20:58:00 -
[2634]
Originally by: Catherine Frasier
Originally by: Shard Merchant - Player guide gets edited to remove controversial remarks.
I think you mean player guide gets updated to both reflect the new mechanism and to explicitly highlight the fact that it has changed. (It says "the skill will no longer continue to train on inactive accounts", hardly a disinformation campaign.)
When the guide was not update eleventy thousand people screamed: "That's not what it says in the guide!!!"
When the guide is updated : "You sneaky bastards are trying a ninja-edit to remove controversial remarks!!!"
nowhere in his post does he even imply this: "You sneaky bastards are trying a ninja-edit to remove controversial remarks!!!" Some of the other posters have, but not Shard Merchant. Is this the only comment in his post that you can quote on? Specifically what about this comment did you not agree with? It was edited, Yes. And Yes, it is Controversial.
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Jocho
Caldari Warped Mining
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Posted - 2008.10.14 20:58:00 -
[2635]
Edited by: Jocho on 14/10/2008 21:02:26
Originally by: Mallikan
Originally by: ViolenTUK This is the worst most appalling and ghastly idea I have seen CCP implement so abruptly in the time I have spent with this game.
There is no justifiable reason to implement this idea now. For CCP to cover it up with the rouge that ôGhostö training is an exploit is an insult. ôGhostö training has been and advertised feature, which has been a deciding factor for many to subscribe to an account. I am simply not interested in the explanation that it was an unintentional bug, which has been used by players. This Feature, which CCP has advertised, has been used for 5 years now and it is deplorable to suddenly withdraw it with virtually no warning.
We will see whether CCP have made a bad move by noting the active subscriptions over the forthcoming months.
If you were any more flamboyant about the wording used here, I would actually miss you. Any recommendations for a good Thesaurus like your's? More to the point, I believe it was the INTERNET SPACESHIPS that drew the most people to the game. I am pretty sure people don't flock to EVE so that they can -not- play with characters. After you get done with your dictionary, try playing the game, it's neat. There's shooting and trading.. lots of fun.
Wow, I havn't stumbled across someone as ignorant as yourself in quite a long time. What's wrong in being well read? Cleary the EvE chronicles aren't expanding your vocabulary enough. ANYWAY what attracted a lot of people was that ghost training meant that they could have a life whilst playing eve. I know a lot of players who chucked on lvl 5 skills while they could not actively play, such as people in the military. I for one get sick of eve time to time, because honestly, it's nothing superb. Compared to next gen games etc it is serverly lacking in many ways. What was nice was the fact I could 'level' but only had to play when I would like, I dind't have to make Eve my life, as so many players seem to do. CCP have made a bogus claim that ghost training is a bug, and so are clearly just wanting more cash, whilst the player gets less, for a higher price. Sorry if I don't like the idea of lying to the customers for more money. I think its appalling.
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Velda Chulai
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 20:59:00 -
[2636]
Originally by: Freezehunter I am with CCP on this one...
I've been playing eve for almost two years and i've never had more than one Account and this character...
Iceland is going through very tough financial problems and CCP is icelandic, so i understand their reasons...
Also, all you *******s with 3+ ccounts, stop being so full of bull, you have billions of ISK and ENORMOUS advantages over someone like me, with only one account, like scouts, cyno alts, mining help, etc...
Now you can stop being greedy ****s in the game and spend your billions on GTC's for your alt accounts and stop ghost training...
You want more accounts? PAY for more accounts... I couldn't afford more than one, and i only played on one...
And for all those that wanna leave, fine, and send me your stuff, i am struggling to get money for cap ship skills anyway...
Actually I have 2 accounts. One main who does production, 16M SP, and has about 200M ISK, and a mission alt who just lost an uninsured battleship, with about 15M isk after rebuying the goods. The only other character I play with is a gimmick alt who doesn't train anything.
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Catherine Frasier
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 20:59:00 -
[2637]
Originally by: Jocho If this is so, then please, please, please enlighten everyone with how ghost training is "unfair" and causes an "inbalance" with eve
Sorry... I don't think you've got any right to rage over them cancelling your free lunch and so therefore I must believe and explain how ghost training was unbalancing? Did that seem to make sense when you were typing it?
As it happens the reason ghost training was problematic from a balance sense is that it enables people who metagame a significant advantage in skill point accumulation over people who actually play the game. (For the same amount of money invested a metagamer exploiting ghost training can earn many times more sp.) Clear? Of course, even were that not true it still doesn't translate into your right to ghost train until the end of time.
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BIind
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 20:59:00 -
[2638]
Edited by: BIind on 14/10/2008 20:59:29
Originally by: Catherine Frasier
Originally by: Dire Radiant That it was a portrayed as a feature in the guide shows that it is not actually a bug at all.
No. It was an unintended feature which was, in effect, a bug. Documenting it doesn't change that.
I'm beginning to notice a pattern in your posts.
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Annaphera
Minmatar Super Green Industries
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Posted - 2008.10.14 21:00:00 -
[2639]
Originally by: Thesiuss I too had planned to set a really long skill train as I took a break. I've done so in the past and it was a good reason for me to eventually come back to eve.
Now I won't have that one thing to help draw me back after 5 years of playing.
Might as well move all my assets into corp hangers just incase I don't come back now.
Just a dumb question - you don't consider playing the game a good enough reason to come back to the game? How many other MMO's have you played, then left and never returned to...because Eve was the only one that allowed inactive accounts to gain anything?
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LuthienTinuviel
The Vanyar
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Posted - 2008.10.14 21:00:00 -
[2640]
Originally by: Shar Tegral
Originally by: The Ubernomicon CCP added the ability to hide images. I recommend you check your forum settings.
Originally by: Ha'Uler If tiny images and bandwidth usage are so important for you, you should change your settings.
[ sarcasm] Ah yes, I should go limit myself simply because others can't limit themselves. A perfect solution. [ /sarcasm] I love many of the signature banners that people create. Also, many people do share images that provide information and can somehow figure out how to do so without breaking the forums or the forum rules. So I'll reiterate, why should I diminish who I am simply because others can't seem to maintain any self control or exercise restraint? Mind you if the community had exercised some restraint over subbing it wouldn't have been so heavily farmed in the first place and we wouldn't be here. Wait, who am I kidding. This community spawns whining like .... ... ... Damn I can't think of anything to match the quantity of whining this community does.
Love you Shar but I am one of the whiners and emo rage quiters your talking about here
CCP - You are now entering the twilight zone where bugs are features and features are bugs |
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Siona Windweaver
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 21:02:00 -
[2641]
Originally by: Shard Merchant To recap..
- Release a short news bit regarding widespread and significant change that would occur in 48 hours.
- Buried with other news minutes later.
- 50 pages of posting follow, discussing the legitimacy of this change as per the reasons given.
- Locked 50 pages of posts because a blog was posted, that repeats the same message.
- Dev blog mentions the 'business side' of this move, which the news post omitted.
- 70 pages of new postings follow.
- Thread disappears from Information Portal. Players find it and continue posting.
- Player guide gets edited to remove controversial remarks.
Without discussing the removal of "ghost training" specifically, what we have here is an attempt to pull a fast one on the players. It is easily the biggest attempted ninja nerf in the history of this game. Your customers deserve:
- More than two days of warning, so they can find out about the changes and plan accordingly
- More visible warning, like the login screen MOTD
- More transparency and honesty about the reasons by discussing all the reasons
Hard decisions are always hard, but how you handle them determines if you gain or lose respect. The player is going to feel screwed by changes that affect them poorly, and this is the equivalent of adding insult to injury.
A lot of people are willing to defend this company regardless of what they do (4S name change, t20 scandal), but this community was built on a common respect for the makers of this game even if they didn't always agree. That was eons ago.
You might not see a dip in subscriber counts, but you'll see an increase in player churn that requires more marketing money to support. You not only lose massive amounts of free word of mouth advertising, but scare away players with the amount of ex-EVE types that leave disgruntled at something you did.
Nice post.
Also, don't forget account page removal and advertising this feature as a "Bug".
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Catherine Frasier
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 21:02:00 -
[2642]
Originally by: Tito Sajic nowhere in his post does he even imply this: "You sneaky bastards are trying a ninja-edit to remove controversial remarks!!!" Some of the other posters have, but not Shard Merchant. Is this the only comment in his post that you can quote on? Specifically what about this comment did you not agree with?
His attribution of motive for the change ignored those "other posters" and implied that CCP was being self-serving and deceptive rather than responding to player complaints by updating the guide to be current, accurate and to reflect the change made.
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ISIAM
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 21:03:00 -
[2643]
Originally by: Catherine Frasier
Originally by: Dire Radiant That it was a portrayed as a feature in the guide shows that it is not actually a bug at all.
No. It was an unintended feature which was, in effect, a bug. Documenting it doesn't change that.
Give it a rest already we know, but it still sucks massively.
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Wager
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 21:03:00 -
[2644]
Go CCP, too many of Zorlya's alts in space these days anyway
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Nackturion
Minmatar Brotherhood of the Phoenix Free Trade Zone.
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Posted - 2008.10.14 21:04:00 -
[2645]
Quote: "how can you just remove ghost training but not the rest of the s*** people get while inactive (market orders? share payouts?)"
This does bring up an intresting point. Aside from skill training, it should be flat across the board and the same. Expired account=Can't benefit in anyway.
Though implmentation could be a bit more tricky for those who accidentally let an account lapse or have legitimate payment errors. But that could be somewhat of an easy fix I would think.
Simply give a 5 day timer on all other character aspects (buy orders, contracts, etc). After 5 days, all of those go away also. That would give the above mentioned cases time to get issues in order at the extreme.
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Xeronn
Amarr Ordo Drakonis Curatores Veritatis Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 21:04:00 -
[2646]
you ****in whining emorage quiters
GO AWAY
Why would you ghosttrain , when EvE is such an awessome never-boring game, and , over the course of this year, CCP has brought us so many AWESSOME features and improvements to keep us all interested
- We got an outstanding massive expansion, featuring amazing err...features, that took years and years of carefull planing and coding
- We got regula updates on such crucial features like walking in stations -we even got a first step twards fixing lag -massive improvenets cattering to the peacefull players , and promises for even more such improvements so the entire playerbase can be happy and cheerfull -we even had ellections and WOOT new elections coming up.
With ALL this, the only reason you come back to eve is to enjoy a few shiny SP?! Shame on you !!! emoragequiters, when CCP works so hard to improve the game lately
I don`t even want your stuff, the PvE side of EvE is so awesssome that it keeps me addicted hours and hours at a time, i have all the stuff i need and CCP will make sure i never lose it unles i err..enter the contested lands...so keep your stuff and quit
(sidenote : if you wanna flame on this please do the enviroment a favor and just stop breathing, sorry im all out of sarcasm detectors)
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Creepin
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 21:05:00 -
[2647]
Originally by: Catherine Frasier
Originally by: Dire Radiant That it was a portrayed as a feature in the guide shows that it is not actually a bug at all.
No. It was an unintended feature which was, in effect, a bug. Documenting it doesn't change that.
Oh, cmon, the bug that was unfixable for bloody five years and coincidentally got fixed at this exact moment, mwahaha
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The Ubernomicon
Eight year old girls GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 21:06:00 -
[2648]
Before the TC changes I had 4 accounts; I kept each of the subscribed 75% of the time. Occasionally a long skill like Cruiser V, BC V or AWU V would come up and I would unsub while it trained. Being able to get past a long training hump, like AWU V, without having to pay is what kept me coming back.
After the TC changes I have only kept 2 accounts active about 50% of the time.
After the this change I will not be resubscribing any of my accounts.
My decision to not resub is not entirely because of the upcoming change, but because CCP has not fixed glaring problems that have been around for over a year. 0.0 is still stagnant, titans make fleet combat unenjoyable and only increase the NEED to blog, cyno jammers used in conjunction with jump bridges force attackers to fight capitals with sub-capitals. This game is an uninteresting stagnant mess right now and this is straw that broke the camel's back.
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Catherine Frasier
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 21:06:00 -
[2649]
Originally by: Nackturion Simply give a 5 day timer on all other character aspects (buy orders, contracts, etc). After 5 days, all of those go away also. That would give the above mentioned cases time to get issues in order at the extreme.
Works for me, where do we vote?
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ViolenTUK
Gallente Vindicated Exiles
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 21:07:00 -
[2650]
Originally by: Catherine Frasier
Originally by: Dire Radiant That it was a portrayed as a feature in the guide shows that it is not actually a bug at all.
No. It was an unintended feature which was, in effect, a bug. Documenting it doesn't change that.
It is irrelevant whether ôghostö training was intentional or not. What is relevant is that it HAS been used as a game feature and has been advertised as such.
www.eve-players.com |
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Jocho
Caldari Warped Mining
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 21:07:00 -
[2651]
Originally by: Catherine Frasier
Originally by: Jocho If this is so, then please, please, please enlighten everyone with how ghost training is "unfair" and causes an "inbalance" with eve
Sorry... I don't think you've got any right to rage over them cancelling your free lunch and so therefore I must believe and explain how ghost training was unbalancing? Did that seem to make sense when you were typing it?
As it happens the reason ghost training was problematic from a balance sense is that it enables people who metagame a significant advantage in skill point accumulation over people who actually play the game. (For the same amount of money invested a metagamer exploiting ghost training can earn many times more sp.) Clear? Of course, even were that not true it still doesn't translate into your right to ghost train until the end of time.
You completely missed the point that Ghost Training was a intentional feature of eve. And your idea that someone can earn many more SP's is ludicrous. Maybe a million more tops due to implants. This is the point of the outrage though, as SP's are a time based leveling system, not a grind for exp system, meaning that CCP have raised the price on leveling for a bogus reason. Everyone has a right to ghost train as CCP openly allowed it and sold eve with that being one of it's main features!
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Ratio Legis
Slacker Industries
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 21:07:00 -
[2652]
Originally by: Catherine Frasier
Originally by: Dire Radiant That it was a portrayed as a feature in the guide shows that it is not actually a bug at all.
No. It was an unintended feature which was, in effect, a bug. Documenting it doesn't change that.
Oddly enough, you still choose to conveniently ignore any comment contradicting that.
Let me illustrate to you exactly how unintended the feature is. You have this, like, a switch. It can turn the feature on or off. At the start you have the feature - maybe unintendedly - on, on both Tranquility and Serenity. Then you flip the switch on Serenity, but don't flip it on Tranquility, taking the time to explain to people who were alarmed that your switch might affect Tranquility too, that you are not in fact using it on Tranquility and that they should not make 130+ page threads because of that. You make it very clear to them that you consciously didn't flip your switch. Then some time later you come back, flip the switch and say "hey, last time I didn't intend to not flip the switch, it was an UNINTENDED FEATURE, but I'm fixing that now". And then you act surprised people yell "bullshit".
You can juggle with semantics til tomorrow, musing on whether documentation states intent for features described or not (though there's a place for unintended features in software documentation, usually called "known issues", and said feature wasn't listed under such heading), but once you start consciously supporting and publicizing your decision to keep a feature, you can no longer claim it's unintended.
So take your trolling, stow it somewhere and go annoy somebody else. This whole mess is bad enough without you helping.
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Suboran
Gallente Victory Not Vengeance Intrepid Crossing
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Posted - 2008.10.14 21:08:00 -
[2653]
If this was a 'bug' why did it take 5 years to fix
If this was a 'bug' why was it promoted as a game feature
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Catherine Frasier
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 21:08:00 -
[2654]
Originally by: Creepin
Originally by: Catherine Frasier No. It was an unintended feature which was, in effect, a bug. Documenting it doesn't change that.
Oh, cmon, the bug that was unfixable for bloody five years and coincidentally got fixed at this exact moment, mwahaha
Coincidence takes two things. What's the other thing happening "at this exact moment" that makes it a conspiracy?
And, to be clear, nobody said it was "unfixable". It was merely not fixed until now.
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Allen Ramses
Caldari Typo Corp
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 21:10:00 -
[2655]
Wow... Took 4 clicks of the reply to topic link for it to work.
CCP, fix your forum software or I am unsubbing all of my 1 accounts, except for my main! ____________________ Pimped out Raven to run level 4 missions quickly: 210 Mil ISK. Realizing your 120 Mil ISK Drake gets the job done faster: Priceless. |
chotaire
Caldari The Rising Stars Cosmic Anomalies
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 21:10:00 -
[2656]
Originally by: Catherine Frasier
Originally by: Jocho If this is so, then please, please, please enlighten everyone with how ghost training is "unfair" and causes an "inbalance" with eve
Sorry... I don't think you've got any right to rage over them cancelling your free lunch and so therefore I must believe and explain how ghost training was unbalancing? Did that seem to make sense when you were typing it?
As it happens the reason ghost training was problematic from a balance sense is that it enables people who metagame a significant advantage in skill point accumulation over people who actually play the game. (For the same amount of money invested a metagamer exploiting ghost training can earn many times more sp.) Clear? Of course, even were that not true it still doesn't translate into your right to ghost train until the end of time.
Catherine, this ain't getting you a job with CCP. And you won't get free items neither. I've been following your posts for quite some time now and to me you are just someone who keeps repeating that you are against everyone else, but that doesn't even make you an anti-hero.
I could've replied to each of your posts and proven them wrong or off-topic, but this is just a waste of time to invest into your hidden trolling attempts. All your future posts I will just skip reading and I hope others will follow. So much attention for nothing, duh...
It doesnt make me wonder you are either posting from one of your alts or stay alone because everyone else disagrees. The fact that you are still member of Imperial Academy after 1 year and 10 months speaks for your attitude - and for itself.
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Catherine Frasier
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 21:11:00 -
[2657]
Originally by: ViolenTUK What is relevant is that it HAS been used as a game feature and has been advertised as such.
Describing, in the player guide, the mechanism by which skill points accumulate is NOT "advertising ghost training it as a feature".
|
Thorindor
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 21:11:00 -
[2658]
The underhanded way CCP has tried to sneak the removal of ghost training in under the radar and then tried to cover up the outrage of almost all the customer base is shocking. The customer business relationship can be more important then the product, while I don't care about the removal of ghost training, CCP's behavior is sickening. I had 3 account, then after the crap, not the changes to the game, they are fine for the most part, I dropped one. The way CCP is going soon it will be 0. Go ahead and **** us all off, without us your screwed. |
floater666
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 21:12:00 -
[2659]
Originally by: Xeronn you ****in whining emorage quiters
GO AWAY
Why would you ghosttrain , when EvE is such an awessome never-boring game, and , over the course of this year, CCP has brought us so many AWESSOME features and improvements to keep us all interested
- We got an outstanding massive expansion, featuring amazing err...features, that took years and years of carefull planing and coding
- We got regula updates on such crucial features like walking in stations -we even got a first step twards fixing lag -massive improvenets cattering to the peacefull players , and promises for even more such improvements so the entire playerbase can be happy and cheerfull -we even had ellections and WOOT new elections coming up.
With ALL this, the only reason you come back to eve is to enjoy a few shiny SP?! Shame on you !!! emoragequiters, when CCP works so hard to improve the game lately
I don`t even want your stuff, the PvE side of EvE is so awesssome that it keeps me addicted hours and hours at a time, i have all the stuff i need and CCP will make sure i never lose it unles i err..enter the contested lands...so keep your stuff and quit
(sidenote : if you wanna flame on this please do the enviroment a favor and just stop breathing, sorry im all out of sarcasm detectors)
I will miss intelligent players like the author of the quote, but I have had enough of CCP calling speaking of "future" implemented features as game improvements and nerfs as buffs. Luckily I have never chaged off my RL social life for a video game social life so leaving is easy.
|
Rafus
Dawn of Fire
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 21:13:00 -
[2660]
This will have definitely been posted before but http://dl.eve-files.com/media/0810/lie.jpg .Yeah thats really a bug ccp.
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CIA1
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 21:14:00 -
[2661]
Originally by: Catherine Frasier
Originally by: ViolenTUK What is relevant is that it HAS been used as a game feature and has been advertised as such.
Describing, in the player guide, the mechanism by which skill points accumulate is NOT "advertising ghost training it as a feature".
You do work for C.C.P.
|
Catherine Frasier
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 21:14:00 -
[2662]
Originally by: Jocho You completely missed the point that Ghost Training was a intentional feature of eve.
It wasn't.
Originally by: Jocho And your idea that someone can earn many more SP's is ludicrous. Maybe a million more tops due to implants.
You don't understand. A ghost trainer who has two accounts (for example) and alternates every month which one is active and which inactive can generate twice as many skill points per dollar as a person who plays the game normally.
|
Catherine Frasier
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 21:15:00 -
[2663]
Originally by: chotaire I could've replied to each of your posts and proven them wrong or off-topic, but this is just a waste of time to invest into your hidden trolling attempts.
|
Carsidava
Ars ex Discordia GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 21:15:00 -
[2664]
Originally by: Catherine Frasier
Originally by: ViolenTUK What is relevant is that it HAS been used as a game feature and has been advertised as such.
Describing, in the player guide, the mechanism by which skill points accumulate is NOT "advertising ghost training it as a feature".
Nor does it make it a bug. Please post proof that CCP considered this a bug (in those words) before yesterday's announcements. |
Bai ul
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 21:15:00 -
[2665]
Strike
20-30 oct i will not play
Take care CCP, this is not the way things should be done!
|
Cheyenne Shadowborn
Caldari Coalition of Nations Free Trade Zone.
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 21:15:00 -
[2666]
Edited by: Cheyenne Shadowborn on 14/10/2008 21:17:27
Originally by: CCP Wrangler Since this has caused a lot of debate we've decided to explain why we are making this change in a new Dev Blog by t0rfifrans: Why ghost training was disabled.
Unlike the first go CCP had at this, I appreciate this honest explaination. Thanks CCP.
Edit: Although calling it a "bug" is still ridiculous - it was either a design decision or plain oversight. --
|
ViolenTUK
Gallente Vindicated Exiles
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 21:15:00 -
[2667]
Originally by: Catherine Frasier
Describing, in the player guide, the mechanism by which skill points accumulate is NOT "advertising ghost training it as a feature".
Describing a trait, facet or aspect of a mechanic in a public form is an advertisement of a feature.
www.eve-players.com |
Allen Ramses
Caldari Typo Corp
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 21:16:00 -
[2668]
I am crying in a thread! ____________________ Pimped out Raven to run level 4 missions quickly: 210 Mil ISK. Realizing your 120 Mil ISK Drake gets the job done faster: Priceless. |
ISIAM
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 21:17:00 -
[2669]
Originally by: Catherine Frasier
Originally by: Jocho You completely missed the point that Ghost Training was a intentional feature of eve.
It wasn't.
Originally by: Jocho And your idea that someone can earn many more SP's is ludicrous. Maybe a million more tops due to implants.
You don't understand. A ghost trainer who has two accounts (for example) and alternates every month which one is active and which inactive can generate twice as many skill points per dollar as a person who plays the game normally.
Oh, so you've done it before?
|
Mallikan
Gallente Plundering Penguins Anarchy.
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 21:17:00 -
[2670]
Originally by: Chaos Incarnate
Quote: CCP may find it necessary on occasion to make changes to or reset certain parameters of the persistent game world mechanics, interface or features of EVE Online in order to maintain game balance and enhance playability or performance for its subscribers. These changes may affect or cause setbacks for the characters you've created.
http://www.eve-online.com/pnp/terms.asp
Mhm.
You sir, winner of the internets, win the internets. :) --- lol.. I messed up.
|
|
Paradise Dreamer
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 21:18:00 -
[2671]
epic... So all we need is compare newest one player guide to older ones...
Even if it has to be happen (about ghost training), the CCP use failed arguments. Like in politics... If you want to change something for every cost, you have to lie as much as you can...
;/
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Zinnn
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 21:18:00 -
[2672]
Edited by: Zinnn on 14/10/2008 21:25:32
Originally by: Catherine Frasier
Originally by: Creepin
Originally by: Catherine Frasier No. It was an unintended feature which was, in effect, a bug. Documenting it doesn't change that.
Oh, cmon, the bug that was unfixable for bloody five years and coincidentally got fixed at this exact moment, mwahaha
Coincidence takes two things. What's the other thing happening "at this exact moment" that makes it a conspiracy?
And, to be clear, nobody said it was "unfixable". It was merely not fixed until now.
You know I can put merely in front of anything to make it sound minimizing. I merely cut a person in half. I merely robbed a bank. So what if it's MERELY not fixed until now. The question YOU have to ask yourself is WHY did they wait until NOW to fix it instead of fixing it when they had the technology YEARS AGO?? REPLY TO ME CATHERINE, you obviously have nothing better to do than to stick up for CCP, so answer.
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shiamizu
Brutor tribe
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 21:19:00 -
[2673]
Originally by: Catherine Frasier
Originally by: Jocho You completely missed the point that Ghost Training was a intentional feature of eve.
It wasn't.
Originally by: Jocho And your idea that someone can earn many more SP's is ludicrous. Maybe a million more tops due to implants.
You don't understand. A ghost trainer who has two accounts (for example) and alternates every month which one is active and which inactive can generate twice as many skill points per dollar as a person who plays the game normally.
whahaha, now all of a sudden it's all about the skillpoints? I thought CCP always said the amount of skillpoints weren important and it was all about tactics and unique ways of playing?
Dude, give it a rest already, you are only focusing on the 'fairness' of skilling while inactive and that's not the problem here. The outrage is mainly a result of the way CCP ****s with their customers for reasons mentioned over and over in this thread.
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Maurice MerleauPonty
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 21:19:00 -
[2674]
here are links to other places, besides the eve forum, that are discussing this nerf:
digg
massively.com
this
battleclinic forums
mmorpg.com
this
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Siona Windweaver
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 21:20:00 -
[2675]
Originally by: Catherine Frasier
Originally by: Jocho You completely missed the point that Ghost Training was a intentional feature of eve.
It wasn't.
If it wasn't, then why the hell CCP advertised it on Live chats or Interviews.
Forget about the blog, why the hell CCP didn't removed an "unintentional" feature for 5 and a half years? Do you think they held on to it as a "get out of the jail free" card?
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Vespa Orebane
VIRTUAL LIFE VANGUARD
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 21:20:00 -
[2676]
Originally by: LordSwift
Originally by: Seth Ruin
Originally by: Avon Hey, your bug...
Skills continue training even if you are logged off or if your account is inactive
I found it in the player guide.
You guys better get in there and ninja-edit it.
You, sir, are a hero.
No he has no life. and has nothing better to do than search the small print somewhere stating old information. Damn give them a chance to update everything.
mmm I smell Dev alt account...
|
Red flagged
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 21:20:00 -
[2677]
Simply ask for honesty and respect.
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The Madcap
RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 21:21:00 -
[2678]
In before page 100. Hey, couldn't waste the chance to post in this epic thread, I'm sure I'll look back at it one day and tell the young Achuras that "I was there!".
Either way; All you guys and gals that feel compelled to quit over this, please send your stuff to RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE [KENNY]. I'll dedicate all donated stuff to Wallet/Hangar division #6, which currently isn't used, and I'll name it Lollerskates. I'll make sure it's put to good use. Destruction!
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Jocho
Caldari Warped Mining
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 21:21:00 -
[2679]
Originally by: Catherine Frasier
Originally by: Jocho You completely missed the point that Ghost Training was a intentional feature of eve.
It wasn't.
Originally by: Jocho And your idea that someone can earn many more SP's is ludicrous. Maybe a million more tops due to implants.
You don't understand. A ghost trainer who has two accounts (for example) and alternates every month which one is active and which inactive can generate twice as many skill points per dollar as a person who plays the game normally.
It wasn't intended? Even though it was mentioned on the character training page as well as it was removed on the Chinese server, yet CCP reasured it would remain on Tranquility... A 5 year bug which CCP advertised & knew about, reasuring it would remain on Tranquilty. Yes. That makes sense. A bug that the deveolpers reassured would remain...Makes perfect sense...
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MILK Monk
2nd Blood Raven Assault Squad
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 21:21:00 -
[2680]
... my tiny little POV... I am young in EVE thus I have fun with one account and so far no need to pause playing and Ghost Train. I was just thinking about buying another account. But what I wanted to say is that when I heard about this first then I told to myself - "Well who cares? It is good that it was here so long... at least". Then I realized that there will be masacre on forums.. and I was sure right :D ...
You people saying that this move will remove subscribers, well yes... some of you will drop their 3rd and 4th chars, but I am quite sure that most of you will keep the second one, as it is often needed (and as some more clever have already written above me). Also this is CHANGE, as every change in human history also this rise huge anti-emotions, few days maybe weeks later you will all calm down, this univers will be still the same place, new players will be incoming, some leaving... you will simply get used to it.
One bad thing is, this could be good reason to come back after you need to have a break from EVE - well now you will return later or never, but I would bet few iskies that you will return anyway even that your char will be still the same as you left it.
Second bad thing is that it really look stupid to call something as a bug while CCP was using this as one of marketing moves. It is pretty low... at least at first sight.
Overall no matter what we all think about it, I very much belive CCP did analysis of possible impact when applying this change... or do you REALLY think they did not??? __________________________________ I do it myyyy wayyyy... Milky Way. |
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Catherine Frasier
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 21:22:00 -
[2681]
Edited by: Catherine Frasier on 14/10/2008 21:29:02
Originally by: Carsidava Please post proof that CCP considered this a bug (in those words) before yesterday's announcements.
They have still not said that. They said "Ghost Training was an unintended feature<...> in all effect, this was a bug." Which is not the same thing. If it makes you happier to think that describing "an unintended result of the way we coded training which eventually became quite problematic and had to be fixed" in all effect a bug is a big giant evil lie, then go right ahead. AFAIAC though it's a fair and reasonable description.
And even if they hadn't used the B-word I'd still support cutting off this exploit.
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Salt Dober
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 21:25:00 -
[2682]
For all the supposed smarts at CCP, I wonder if anyone there has a clue, if you lot think this will make you more money...then you don't understand the ebb and flow of MMO players...many who would come back after a month or two hiatus will be gone for good...let alone the use of alts...
Less alcohol, more thoughtful rational approaches please.
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LegendaryFrog
Caldari GoonFleet GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 21:25:00 -
[2683]
I would accept this had it not come right at the end of the power-of-two promotion. Encouraging players to take a second account assuming that this 'bug' would be in place and then removing this 'bug' the moment the promotion ends (severely mitigating most players interest in having a second account) can really only be seen as deceptive at best.
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Mallikan
Gallente Plundering Penguins Anarchy.
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Posted - 2008.10.14 21:26:00 -
[2684]
Originally by: Jocho Edited by: Jocho on 14/10/2008 21:02:26
Originally by: Mallikan
Originally by: ViolenTUK This is the worst most appalling and ghastly idea I have seen CCP implement so abruptly in the time I have spent with this game.
There is no justifiable reason to implement this idea now. For CCP to cover it up with the rouge that ôGhostö training is an exploit is an insult. ôGhostö training has been and advertised feature, which has been a deciding factor for many to subscribe to an account. I am simply not interested in the explanation that it was an unintentional bug, which has been used by players. This Feature, which CCP has advertised, has been used for 5 years now and it is deplorable to suddenly withdraw it with virtually no warning.
We will see whether CCP have made a bad move by noting the active subscriptions over the forthcoming months.
If you were any more flamboyant about the wording used here, I would actually miss you. Any recommendations for a good Thesaurus like your's? More to the point, I believe it was the INTERNET SPACESHIPS that drew the most people to the game. I am pretty sure people don't flock to EVE so that they can -not- play with characters. After you get done with your dictionary, try playing the game, it's neat. There's shooting and trading.. lots of fun.
Wow, I havn't stumbled across someone as ignorant as yourself in quite a long time. What's wrong in being well read? Cleary the EvE chronicles aren't expanding your vocabulary enough. ANYWAY what attracted a lot of people was that ghost training meant that they could have a life whilst playing eve. I know a lot of players who chucked on lvl 5 skills while they could not actively play, such as people in the military. I for one get sick of eve time to time, because honestly, it's nothing superb. Compared to next gen games etc it is serverly lacking in many ways. What was nice was the fact I could 'level' but only had to play when I would like, I dind't have to make Eve my life, as so many players seem to do. CCP have made a bogus claim that ghost training is a bug, and so are clearly just wanting more cash, whilst the player gets less, for a higher price. Sorry if I don't like the idea of lying to the customers for more money. I think its appalling.
Epic lulz. First off, I'm in the military. That doesn't mean I should be the difference between game balance and inbalance. Two, why then are so many people say "OMG LEAVING" and then saying they're going to some other MMO that doesn't even offer time based training?? If you need to take a break from EVE, either keep paying for it, or stop training. You're not paying nor playing it at that time so it's only fair. Get over it? I'm sorry an internet spaceship game company appalled you. That must be rough for you. LOL.. Bye now, see you in "Generic MMO X." --- lol.. I messed up.
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Xeronn
Amarr Ordo Drakonis Curatores Veritatis Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 21:26:00 -
[2685]
Originally by: Shard Merchant To recap..
- Release a short news bit regarding widespread and significant change that would occur in 48 hours.
- Buried with other news minutes later.
- 50 pages of posting follow, discussing the legitimacy of this change as per the reasons given.
- Locked 50 pages of posts because a blog was posted, that repeats the same message.
- Dev blog mentions the 'business side' of this move, which the news post omitted.
- 70 pages of new postings follow.
- Thread disappears from Information Portal. Players find it and continue posting.
- Player guide gets edited to remove controversial remarks.
Without discussing the removal of "ghost training" specifically, what we have here is an attempt to pull a fast one on the players. It is easily the biggest attempted ninja nerf in the history of this game. Your customers deserve:
- More than two days of warning, so they can find out about the changes and plan accordingly
- More visible warning, like the login screen MOTD
- More transparency and honesty about the reasons by discussing all the reasons
Hard decisions are always hard, but how you handle them determines if you gain or lose respect. The player is going to feel screwed by changes that affect them poorly, and this is the equivalent of adding insult to injury.
A lot of people are willing to defend this company regardless of what they do (4S name change, t20 scandal), but this community was built on a common respect for the makers of this game even if they didn't always agree. That was eons ago.
You might not see a dip in subscriber counts, but you'll see an increase in player churn that requires more marketing money to support. You not only lose massive amounts of free word of mouth advertising, but scare away players with the amount of ex-EVE types that leave disgruntled at something you did.
/ THIS!
I dont care about ghosttraining , i missed some training weeks, i ghosttrained others, overall both accounts i own are 95% active
But the way CCP handles this is at least disheartening, and umm...oh well...i`m still posting cause that other game is just 83% downloaded
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Salt Dober
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 21:27:00 -
[2686]
Originally by: MILK Monk Overall no matter what we all think about it, I very much belive CCP did analysis of possible impact when applying this change... or do you REALLY think they did not???
You are new...
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BIind
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 21:27:00 -
[2687]
Originally by: MILK Monk Overall no matter what we all think about it, I very much belive CCP did analysis of possible impact when applying this change... or do you REALLY think they did not???
My guess is that they're totally oblivious as to what makes people return to this game, maybe they think it's their brilliant advertising and marketing methods that keep people coming back. And it's not, at least in my case, it's knowing that when I return there's a new shipclass waiting for me.
|
10of10
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 21:27:00 -
[2688]
Originally by: Catherine Frasier
Originally by: Jocho You completely missed the point that Ghost Training was a intentional feature of eve.
It wasn't.
Originally by: Jocho And your idea that someone can earn many more SP's is ludicrous. Maybe a million more tops due to implants.
You don't understand. A ghost trainer who has two accounts (for example) and alternates every month which one is active and which inactive can generate twice as many skill points per dollar as a person who plays the game normally.
Just because your not smart enough to manage your accounts dosent mean that the rest of us should suffer. And yes you have to be a ccp plant. |
Deviana Sevidon
Gallente Panta-Rhei United Front Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 21:28:00 -
[2689]
I expected this "Feature" to be removed, when the same thing was done on Serenity.
Aside from that, I can understand CCP's handling. Besides it is much more of a Loophole that is now being closed.
Nothing really changes. Skilling takes still time, you can play EVE while you skill, the only thing you do not get anymore is Skill-Training for free, which makes Character Farming a bit more costly.
So you want a service, then you will have to pay for it. Sounds fair enough for me.
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ISIAM
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 21:28:00 -
[2690]
Originally by: Catherine Frasier
Originally by: Carsidava Please post proof that CCP considered this a bug (in those words) before yesterday's announcements.
They have still not said that. They said "Ghost Training was an unintended feature<...> in all effect, this was a bug." Which is not the same thing. If it makes you happier to think that describing "an unintended result of the way we coded training which eventually became quite problematic and had to be fixed" in all effect a bug is a big giant evil lie, then go right ahead. AFAIAC thought it's a fair and reasonable description.
And even if they hadn't used the B-word I'd still support cutting off this exploit.
That's because they won't pay you till you convince us all it's a good idea.
|
|
Za Tarc
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 21:28:00 -
[2691]
look. I understand why they are doing this and am not arguing their right to do so. Like has been said many times here, they can do what they want. And yes, many people feel they have been shafted.. and they probably should. This is because they felt it was important to their play style. I also understand that some of you think it is all good. This of course is because your play style isn't affected. Personally, mine isn't really affected that much. I leave the account off to go somewhere else for a while and I will miss the feature, but it's not the end of the world. I will still play. but when I take a break (like most do), I just wont be paying every other month. I will be paying when I come back, like in other games.
The only thing I see here is that this might not bring the income that CCP thinks they are getting. It's a bit of a gamble for them. I only know myself and 4 others personally that play the game. For all of us, they will actually be losing money, not gaining. based off this, I can assume that a very large number of others will be in same boat. From an economic standpoint, this is risky. They may end up making less, while ****ing off quite a few players.. but then again only time will tell. I am in regardless. It will just cost me less now :). not that the skills matter that much anyway. Any pod pilot knows that the skill is mostly in the player, not the machine. I will just hone my skills more.
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Caius LiviusCerso
Caldari Science and Trade Institute
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 21:28:00 -
[2692]
I used it on several occasion, mostly my main account when I went awol in RL.
LEts be honest ppl. You wouldnt have Sony give you such candy for 5 years so far, would you?
Thanx CCP for all you've done. And t those with 5-12 accounts that are threatening to leave (which is stupid - you eiter love and play eve, or not) go to bigger pastures.
Also, ISK buying subscriptions have how many games?? Please remind me. I am very happy with Eve....looking forward to future with CCP. Thanx folks.
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Alan Kell
Minmatar
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 21:29:00 -
[2693]
Edited by: Alan Kell on 14/10/2008 21:29:59 The crazy thing is that CCP is responsible for the increase in the use of ghost training.
Firstly, in an attempt to increase revenue, the GTC prices are changed.
Secondly, with the first "power of 2" marketing drive, GTC prices spike due to high demand as power of 2 accounts start to expire.
Accounts are allowed to lapse and ghost training use spikes.
CCP responds in an attempt to shore up account subscriptions by making ghost training unusable.
Sadly, this is likely to reduce the number of people who go inactive for some reason but come back revitalised when they realise something is done training. :(
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Catherine Frasier
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 21:30:00 -
[2694]
Originally by: Siona Windweaver
Originally by: Catherine Frasier
Originally by: Jocho You completely missed the point that Ghost Training was a intentional feature of eve.
It wasn't.
If it wasn't, then why the hell CCP advertised it on Live chats or Interviews.
Got a link for any of that?
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Kepakh
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 21:30:00 -
[2695]
Originally by: CCP t0rfifrans
Does that mean that CCP is a greedy money chewing monster that just loves nerfing things?
Oh really? What a coincidence that you came up with this 'nerf' while you managed to make quite handfull of bad moves lately(security hit changes, proposed speed changes, removing caps from high-sec 'by accident', etc.).
Just another step to lose more of your already damaged credibility... I assume you are very confident about yourself since you removed the option to pay 'every second month' leaving us to decide if we stay or leave forever.
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gravitywave
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 21:30:00 -
[2696]
Edited by: gravitywave on 14/10/2008 21:32:05
Originally by: Catherine Frasier
Originally by: Carsidava Please post proof that CCP considered this a bug (in those words) before yesterday's announcements.
They have still not said that. They said "Ghost Training was an unintended feature<...> in all effect, this was a bug." Which is not the same thing. If it makes you happier to think that describing "an unintended result of the way we coded training which eventually became quite problematic and had to be fixed" in all effect a bug is a big giant evil lie, then go right ahead. AFAIAC thought it's a fair and reasonable description.
And even if they hadn't used the B-word I'd still support cutting off this exploit.
Dev: oh look we accidently made the code train skills when people stop paying
Dev2: yer, ah nevermind that one can fall through the net, kinda neat really
Dev: agreed we will call it a feature
Dev2 :)
5 years on...
Dev's: Ohnoz teh banks are fuxored! Remove the feature! Its loosing us soooo much cash! We will tell people it was infact a bug! No one will mind too much :)
Bug? i think not. bugs get squashed or turned into features, not the other way round ;)
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Gajowy
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 21:30:00 -
[2697]
Originally by: Catherine Frasier
Originally by: Carsidava Please post proof that CCP considered this a bug (in those words) before yesterday's announcements.
They have still not said that. They said "Ghost Training was an unintended feature<...> in all effect, this was a bug." Which is not the same thing. If it makes you happier to think that describing "an unintended result of the way we coded training which eventually became quite problematic and had to be fixed" in all effect a bug is a big giant evil lie, then go right ahead. AFAIAC thought it's a fair and reasonable description.
And even if they hadn't used the B-word I'd still support cutting off this exploit.
so its a bug but not a bug, and it was a bug earlier but it was feature in the same time. You're really.. well not smart... if you think that you can force people to belive that black is white.
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Creepin
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 21:30:00 -
[2698]
To hell the disabling itself, I for one was never using it. The thing that ****es me off is CCP behaviour towards it's customers. My own opinion of CCP, for example, within a 1,5 year span of gameplay has changed from a "company of enthusiasts who love their game, not their revenues" to "a bunch of **** who stops at no lie and scheme to cover it's blatant lust for draining subscribers money". This is sad change actually.
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Catherine Frasier
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 21:32:00 -
[2699]
Originally by: shiamizu whahaha, now all of a sudden it's all about the skillpoints? I thought CCP always said the amount of skillpoints weren important and it was all about tactics and unique ways of playing?
Nope, someone asked me to specifically explain that one particular aspect, so I did.
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Zinnn
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 21:32:00 -
[2700]
Originally by: Catherine Frasier
Originally by: Creepin
Originally by: Catherine Frasier No. It was an unintended feature which was, in effect, a bug. Documenting it doesn't change that.
Oh, cmon, the bug that was unfixable for bloody five years and coincidentally got fixed at this exact moment, mwahaha
Coincidence takes two things. What's the other thing happening "at this exact moment" that makes it a conspiracy?
And, to be clear, nobody said it was "unfixable". It was merely not fixed until now.
I'm saying this again cause I recieved no reply the last time.
You know I can put merely in front of anything to make it sound minimizing. I merely cut a person in half. I merely robbed a bank. So what if it's MERELY not fixed until now. The question YOU have to ask yourself is WHY did they wait until NOW to fix it instead of fixing it when they had the technology YEARS AGO?? REPLY TO ME CATHERINE, you obviously have nothing better to do than to stick up for CCP, so answer.
|
|
Jolly Rogerer
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 21:37:00 -
[2701]
Originally by: Zinnn ... So what if it's MERELY not fixed until now. The question YOU have to ask yourself is WHY did they wait until NOW to fix it instead of fixing it when they had the technology YEARS AGO?? REPLY TO ME CATHERINE, you obviously have nothing better to do than to stick up for CCP, so answer.
Little known fact: you can put all caps to try to intimidate people (and look like a bit of a tool doing it).
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Lilin
Eye of God Intrepid Crossing
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 21:37:00 -
[2702]
In before page 100 ;D
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xaja
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 21:37:00 -
[2703]
Hey, CCP... since this is obviously a bad change for a lot of people..
you could give us something to sweeten the pot in that area: Allow us to switch skills by logging on to our character's account on the eve-online website.
Because so far, if you went traveling, you wouldn't be able to switch skills on a journey, cause you can't start up the game client in some internet cafe in India or wherever else.
So the obvious reaction to that would be to let the account expire, since you're getting no benefit once the training runs out.
(Myself? I always keep my main active, but I do suspend alts, especially cause eve is often just not interesting enough to play it without taking repeated 6 months breaks. Here's hoping the new performance changes will make large territorial fleet battles a little more fun) ... _____________________________________ I'm Paper; Rock's fine, nerf Scissors |
splintercellxxx
Gallente Mindstar Technology
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 21:37:00 -
[2704]
bad PR And i was saying how ccp was going the right direction last week to my mates..
i do ghosttraining not sure if i will continue or just transfer the chars i have to my 2 mains. need killboard hosting : killboard hosting
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Catherine Frasier
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 21:37:00 -
[2705]
Edited by: Catherine Frasier on 14/10/2008 21:38:50
Originally by: Zinnn The question YOU have to ask yourself is WHY did they wait until NOW to fix it instead of fixing it when they had the technology YEARS AGO?? REPLY TO ME CATHERINE, you obviously have nothing better to do than to stick up for CCP, so answer.
That's pretty simple. Until it was being exploited heavily enough (or until they noticed that it was being exploited heavily enough) to be a serious problem it was not worth the emoragequitfest that we're seeing here right now. Counts change, the game evolves, what was slightly annoying once becomes more important.
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younub
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 21:38:00 -
[2706]
Originally by: Shard Merchant To recap..
- Release a short news bit regarding widespread and significant change that would occur in 48 hours.
- Buried with other news minutes later.
- 50 pages of posting follow, discussing the legitimacy of this change as per the reasons given.
- Locked 50 pages of posts because a blog was posted, that repeats the same message.
- Dev blog mentions the 'business side' of this move, which the news post omitted.
- 70 pages of new postings follow.
- Thread disappears from Information Portal. Players find it and continue posting.
- Player guide gets edited to remove controversial remarks.
Without discussing the removal of "ghost training" specifically, what we have here is an attempt to pull a fast one on the players. It is easily the biggest attempted ninja nerf in the history of this game. Your customers deserve:
- More than two days of warning, so they can find out about the changes and plan accordingly
- More visible warning, like the login screen MOTD
- More transparency and honesty about the reasons by discussing all the reasons
Hard decisions are always hard, but how you handle them determines if you gain or lose respect. The player is going to feel screwed by changes that affect them poorly, and this is the equivalent of adding insult to injury.
A lot of people are willing to defend this company regardless of what they do (4S name change, t20 scandal), but this community was built on a common respect for the makers of this game even if they didn't always agree. That was eons ago.
You might not see a dip in subscriber counts, but you'll see an increase in player churn that requires more marketing money to support. You not only lose massive amounts of free word of mouth advertising, but scare away players with the amount of ex-EVE types that leave disgruntled at something you did.
quoting this becouse im down
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Aliedora
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 21:39:00 -
[2707]
Originally by: younub
Originally by: Shard Merchant To recap..
- Release a short news bit regarding widespread and significant change that would occur in 48 hours.
- Buried with other news minutes later.
- 50 pages of posting follow, discussing the legitimacy of this change as per the reasons given.
- Locked 50 pages of posts because a blog was posted, that repeats the same message.
- Dev blog mentions the 'business side' of this move, which the news post omitted.
- 70 pages of new postings follow.
- Thread disappears from Information Portal. Players find it and continue posting.
- Player guide gets edited to remove controversial remarks.
Without discussing the removal of "ghost training" specifically, what we have here is an attempt to pull a fast one on the players. It is easily the biggest attempted ninja nerf in the history of this game. Your customers deserve:
- More than two days of warning, so they can find out about the changes and plan accordingly
- More visible warning, like the login screen MOTD
- More transparency and honesty about the reasons by discussing all the reasons
Hard decisions are always hard, but how you handle them determines if you gain or lose respect. The player is going to feel screwed by changes that affect them poorly, and this is the equivalent of adding insult to injury.
A lot of people are willing to defend this company regardless of what they do (4S name change, t20 scandal), but this community was built on a common respect for the makers of this game even if they didn't always agree. That was eons ago.
You might not see a dip in subscriber counts, but you'll see an increase in player churn that requires more marketing money to support. You not only lose massive amounts of free word of mouth advertising, but scare away players with the amount of ex-EVE types that leave disgruntled at something you did.
quoting this becouse im down
QFT
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ISIAM
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Posted - 2008.10.14 21:39:00 -
[2708]
This is truly a sad day to be an invested EVE enthusiast.
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Wygg
Minmatar Hadean Drive Yards Archaean Cooperative
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Posted - 2008.10.14 21:40:00 -
[2709]
Originally by: xaja Hey, CCP... you could give us something to sweeten the pot in that area: Allow us to switch skills by logging on to our character's account on the eve-online website.
Now that's not a wholly bad idea.
+1 for posting the first useful suggestion in the past sixty pages.
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zacuis
Infinite Improbability Inc Mostly Harmless
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Posted - 2008.10.14 21:40:00 -
[2710]
me dislikes this change
i actually think your shooting your selves in the foot here too. surly these ghost training accounts are extra income as they will be subed now and again. now they will simply not be used at all.
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Zinnn
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Posted - 2008.10.14 21:42:00 -
[2711]
Edited by: Zinnn on 14/10/2008 21:43:15
Originally by: Catherine Frasier
Originally by: Zinnn The question YOU have to ask yourself is WHY did they wait until NOW to fix it instead of fixing it when they had the technology YEARS AGO?? REPLY TO ME CATHERINE, you obviously have nothing better to do than to stick up for CCP, so answer.
That's pretty simple. Until it was being exploited heavily enough (or until they noticed that it was being exploited heavily enough) to be a serious problem it was not worth the emoragequitfest that we're seeing here right now. Counts change, the game evolves, what was slightly annoying once become more important.
OK so a LITTLE bugfix is not important, even though it is a fix (according to them) ... That makes no sense. The more logical idea is that CCP used it as a selling point to add subscribers. now after the GTC price hike, they saw a lack of subscriptions (they're in the same boat they were before the price hike) and now they're just trying to find a way to recoup their losses. Hopefully they find a new solution - like new features, rather than removing them. Does this make sense to you Catherine or are you still hellbent on this idea being a good one?
EDIT: Sorry Allan Kell for hijacking your idea but it was mine too. Props dude. Hopefully CCP gets it right this time :D
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SK Rooster
Out of Order
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Posted - 2008.10.14 21:42:00 -
[2712]
Originally by: Dev Blog Ghost Training was an unintended feature where unpaid accounts of EVE Online were able to continue training skills.
oh really?
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CIA1
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Posted - 2008.10.14 21:42:00 -
[2713]
Originally by: Catherine Frasier Edited by: Catherine Frasier on 14/10/2008 21:38:50
Originally by: Zinnn The question YOU have to ask yourself is WHY did they wait until NOW to fix it instead of fixing it when they had the technology YEARS AGO?? REPLY TO ME CATHERINE, you obviously have nothing better to do than to stick up for CCP, so answer.
That's pretty simple. Until it was being exploited heavily enough (or until they noticed that it was being exploited heavily enough) to be a serious problem it was not worth the emoragequitfest that we're seeing here right now. Counts change, the game evolves, what was slightly annoying once becomes more important.
Are you sure you don't work for C.C.P. ?
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Bistot Kid
The First Thing You'll Ever See
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Posted - 2008.10.14 21:43:00 -
[2714]
Who cares! Just like most things CCP eventually nerf, it's because people got too greedy and the "undocumented feature" was used by too many, too much.
This was taken away when the Chinese server went live, then given back again due to whinage, now it's being taken away again.
If you truly care about it, that's because you are using it to gain an advantage while not paying, so tough luck really.
Funniest thing would be if CCP retroactively removed all skill points ever earned while outside of your subs period. Oh ho, I'd love to see these forums then! -------------------- What? Me Worry? -------------------- |
Rufus Britton
Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse The ENTITY.
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Posted - 2008.10.14 21:43:00 -
[2715]
I'm off for the first phase of training for the navy for 7 weeks soon. I was planning on ghost training a long skill for the first time ever. Now I'm going to have to pay for 7 weeks worth of eve where I'll have no internet access, if I want to stay on par skillswise with everyone else, if I don't I will fall behind.
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Wygg
Minmatar Hadean Drive Yards Archaean Cooperative
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Posted - 2008.10.14 21:43:00 -
[2716]
I still like the idea of simply prohibiting the sale/transfer of any character that's been inactive for an inordinate percentate of their lifespan.
What's too much? 25%? 50%? 75%?
It would stop dead the farming of characters simply for ISK generation and allow people with RL issues the ability to still reap a reward
Spend X% of the time with the account/characters inactive and you can't sell them. If you didn't intend to sell them in the first place, no problem.
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Derdre Esme
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Posted - 2008.10.14 21:45:00 -
[2717]
Edited by: Derdre Esme on 14/10/2008 21:46:06 altough i'm not happy with that too, it's somehow a little bit normal but it's a too sudden / radical change, CCP should instead allow only something like ghost training of skill that are under rank 6
this site will have to be followed closely in the following month
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Zinnn
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Posted - 2008.10.14 21:45:00 -
[2718]
bistot kid, I"m not using that feature and I"m still upset. Your logic is flawed.
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Catherine Frasier
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Posted - 2008.10.14 21:45:00 -
[2719]
Originally by: Zinnn OK so a LITTLE bugfix is not important, even though it is a fix (according to them) ... That makes no sense.
Jesus dude, you ever play Eve? There are millions of little "bugs", flaws, imbalances and gaps that need fixing, or tweaking, or removing. As time (sometimes years) goes by they generally get fixed or changed.
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Dian Cecht
Omnicorp Enterprises
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Posted - 2008.10.14 21:47:00 -
[2720]
Edited by: Dian Cecht on 14/10/2008 21:47:27 Just adding my voice to the crowd.
Although I don't use the 'feature' on any of my accounts, it's still bad form to remove it.
Dian
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Tatianna
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Posted - 2008.10.14 21:48:00 -
[2721]
This must be the most **** poor example of customer relations ever. The explaination was at least honest on the second attempt, but that still does not change the fact that they lied bold faced about it at first.
Ridiculous!
/account expired for good now!
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Zinnn
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Posted - 2008.10.14 21:48:00 -
[2722]
Edited by: Zinnn on 14/10/2008 21:49:55 EDITED TO POST ON THE NEW PAGE FOR PEOPLE TO SEE. NOTHING TO SEE HERE.
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BIind
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Posted - 2008.10.14 21:48:00 -
[2723]
Originally by: Derdre Esme this site will have to be followed closely in the following month
Population statistics don't reflect the number of cancelled alts unfortunately.
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Paradise Dreamer
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Posted - 2008.10.14 21:49:00 -
[2724]
Originally by: Catherine Frasier
Originally by: Zinnn OK so a LITTLE bugfix is not important, even though it is a fix (according to them) ... That makes no sense.
Jesus dude, you ever play Eve? There are millions of little "bugs", flaws, imbalances and gaps that need fixing, or tweaking, or removing. As time (sometimes years) goes by they generally get fixed or changed.
But, instead of it, let's prepare for ambulation, planet flights and other upgrades to eve... ;/
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Jac Straw
Tribal Liberation Force
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Posted - 2008.10.14 21:50:00 -
[2725]
Originally by: Paradise Dreamer
Originally by: Catherine Frasier
Originally by: Zinnn OK so a LITTLE bugfix is not important, even though it is a fix (according to them) ... That makes no sense.
Jesus dude, you ever play Eve? There are millions of little "bugs", flaws, imbalances and gaps that need fixing, or tweaking, or removing. As time (sometimes years) goes by they generally get fixed or changed.
But, instead of it, let's prepare for ambulation, planet flights and other upgrades to eve... ;/
Every piece of software you use has "small bugs", no computer program is flawless.
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Soriana Ter'Ridar
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Posted - 2008.10.14 21:50:00 -
[2726]
STOP FIXING GOOD BUGS AND FIX THE LAAAAAGGGGGGGG!!!!!!!! Jeez when will these guys learn?! I think their learninig skills are still at lvl 1.
So if ive missed training time where I wasn't actually training anything then i'm technically allowed it back? Becasue as CCP have highlighted were paying for the training time.
If any of you played the football manager live beta you would know it has the same skill training as eve which hey I thought was great when they introduced it but they also added an even better feature... catch up, so if you missed a few hours/days then the skill you start training would get a speed up bonus until its caught up. Plus you could have target skills and queue them up, all very interesting really.
So some usefull feedback for you there ccp so you can make us proud.
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Zinnn
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Posted - 2008.10.14 21:50:00 -
[2727]
Originally by: Catherine Frasier
Originally by: Zinnn OK so a LITTLE bugfix is not important, even though it is a fix (according to them) ... That makes no sense.
Jesus dude, you ever play Eve? There are millions of little "bugs", flaws, imbalances and gaps that need fixing, or tweaking, or removing. As time (sometimes years) goes by they generally get fixed or changed.
Perhaps you didn't read that the china server already got that fix a while back and CCP said it would not be implemented in Tranquility. Well here it is. Your logic = epic fail. No flame intended
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MinorMiss
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Posted - 2008.10.14 21:51:00 -
[2728]
Originally by: Catherine Frasier
Originally by: Siona Windweaver
Originally by: Catherine Frasier
Originally by: Jocho You completely missed the point that Ghost Training was a intentional feature of eve.
It wasn't.
If it wasn't, then why the hell CCP advertised it on Live chats or Interviews.
Got a link for any of that?
yeah ive even put in petitions on my other account asking about skills and whether or not they keep training as a feature. Why confirm it if it wasn't an "intended" feature?
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Shar Tegral
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Posted - 2008.10.14 21:53:00 -
[2729]
Originally by: Zinnn Perhaps you didn't read that the china server already got that fix a while back and CCP said it would not be implemented in Tranquility. Well here it is. Your logic = epic fail. No flame intended
Where did CCP say it would never be implemented? Linkage or it didn't happen.
To Shar -verb: 1 - To say what you mean. 2 - To say what it means. 3 - To say something mean. |
Tatianna
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Posted - 2008.10.14 21:54:00 -
[2730]
And double shame for hiding this thread as well :(.
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Promethian child
Amarr VITOC
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Posted - 2008.10.14 21:56:00 -
[2731]
Now buying chars 100 isk per piece
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Ronin 0031
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Posted - 2008.10.14 21:56:00 -
[2732]
Edited by: Ronin 0031 on 14/10/2008 22:25:08 SCAMMER...... oh wait this isn't jita ...or is it? its funny how right after the huge push on the "Power of Two" and then throw this in right after.... i call Bull S***!!!
Quoted from the Player guide
Skills continue training even if you are logged off or if your account is inactive
http://www.eve-online.com/guide/en/g615.asp |
Zinnn
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Posted - 2008.10.14 21:56:00 -
[2733]
Originally by: Shar Tegral
Originally by: Zinnn Perhaps you didn't read that the china server already got that fix a while back and CCP said it would not be implemented in Tranquility. Well here it is. Your logic = epic fail. No flame intended
Where did CCP say it would never be implemented? Linkage or it didn't happen.
Enough people have said so on this forum for it to be fact that they did indeed say it wouldn't happen. That is, unless CCP has deleted those posts.. I wouldn't doubt it if they did to be honest. I think this entire thread is just crowd control and trying to sway public opinion by people like catherine. Seriously people who are noobs should not ask for stuff they can search for on even independent websites, but I trust the like 20 people or so that have said it already.
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Billy Merc
Amarr ANZAC ALLIANCE Southern Cross Alliance
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Posted - 2008.10.14 21:58:00 -
[2734]
Edited by: Billy Merc on 14/10/2008 21:59:26 So slashing ôpotentialö revenue is what qualifies as cost saving in Iceland eh....
You know at least when this was enabled...you knew that people had these alts and that they would return and reactivate these alts, be it in some cases sparaticly. But at least is was more money in the door eh.
Now there are fewer and fewer reasons to own alts...in fact id say besides those of us in the community that are doing ok in these tough times, people will simply trim the fat, cut there lossÆs, un-sub there alts.....and in the end ure profits will suffer...but hey its ure business not mine so i donÆt really give three shades.
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Cosne
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Posted - 2008.10.14 22:00:00 -
[2735]
I disabled all of my 4(!) Accounts. Thats enough what you have done to the players.
1. Nerfing the Whole EVE, okay its annoying that you do this every 80 Days. 2. You did not Balanced 50% Of the Modules after many Years. (Okay, Maybe you do now a little balance, but for me it is a nerf) 3. The new Graphics are really nice, but how about the Rest? POS? Universe SKYBOX? Well there is nothing.... Astroids?... Nothing.... 4.Now you Removed the Ghost Training thats enough. I quit Playing eve.
EVE Was my Hobby, any maybe your Business. But I want to like my Hobby and nothing else. If you destroy my Hobby, i will quit this.
And the 5. Point... The Test Servers... I See 3-4 BugHunters/CCP's online at the Same time. And 2-3 Hours later there is no one Online and this for 16 Hours. Well You are the King CCP. The The Crowd is not Amused.
Sorry for my not well English at this time, im really sick about this all.
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ISIAM
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Posted - 2008.10.14 22:01:00 -
[2736]
Originally by: Zinnn
Originally by: Shar Tegral
Originally by: Zinnn Perhaps you didn't read that the china server already got that fix a while back and CCP said it would not be implemented in Tranquility. Well here it is. Your logic = epic fail. No flame intended
Where did CCP say it would never be implemented? Linkage or it didn't happen.
Enough people have said so on this forum for it to be fact that they did indeed say it wouldn't happen. That is, unless CCP has deleted those posts.. I wouldn't doubt it if they did to be honest. I think this entire thread is just crowd control and trying to sway public opinion by people like catherine. Seriously people who are noobs should not ask for stuff they can search for on even independent websites, but I trust the like 20 people or so that have said it already.
Yes finally somebody gets it. that's exactly what is happening. Big Indeed. (..)
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Jocho
Caldari Warped Mining
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Posted - 2008.10.14 22:01:00 -
[2737]
Originally by: Mallikan
Epic lulz. First off, I'm in the military. That doesn't mean I should be the difference between game balance and inbalance. Two, why then are so many people say "OMG LEAVING" and then saying they're going to some other MMO that doesn't even offer time based training?? If you need to take a break from EVE, either keep paying for it, or stop training. You're not paying nor playing it at that time so it's only fair. Get over it? I'm sorry an internet spaceship game company appalled you. That must be rough for you. LOL.. Bye now, see you in "Generic MMO X."
If your in the military then how are you for the change? Unless your a desk jockey (LOL) then it means your character gets serverly hampered due to real life commitments. And how does it imbalance the game?? All the hardcore pros keep stating this, but part of the disgust at CCP is that it clearly doesn't cause any imblance. Unless CCP left a known "bug" in the game for 5 years, even though it causes such a great 'imbalance'. Removing ghost training actually creates an imbalance. If I take a break from EvE, what is the incentive to come back? Battleship 5....crusier 5 etc...not any more. And lets be honest, EvE isn't exaclty a top notch game - its gameplay and graphics are very dated. And for $200+ a year, I think anyone can find a better game, I know I will. It's amazing how you comepletly overlook the fact that CCP have lied to you and your getting less for more money, and instead you hold a torch for them. How far will they have to go until you say "enoughs enough, that's just bulls**t"
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Shar Tegral
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Posted - 2008.10.14 22:04:00 -
[2738]
Originally by: Zinnn Perhaps you didn't read that the china server already got that fix a while back and CCP said it would not be implemented in Tranquility. Well here it is. Your logic = epic fail. No flame intended
Originally by: Shar Tegral Where did CCP say it would never be implemented? Linkage or it didn't happen.
Originally by: Zinnn Enough people have said so on this forum for it to be fact that they did indeed say it wouldn't happen.
I'm sending you my medical bills. I laughed so hard at your statement I think I've got a hernia. No flame intended but there a some very simple ("very simple" counts as well) words to describe you if you actually believe rabble when they are rabbling. I can directly tell you for a fact that you will not find any such statement. Not because CCP is that good at covering up (because let's face it - they ain't) but because I've been here being a thorn in CCP's side wherever they fall short. Now, stop focusing on what they did and focus on the ineptness of how they did it. What they did was right but overdue. How they did it is the classic CCP screw up. 'Nuff said.
To Shar -verb: 1 - To say what you mean. 2 - To say what it means. 3 - To say something mean. |
10of10
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 22:06:00 -
[2739]
Originally by: Shar Tegral
Originally by: Zinnn Perhaps you didn't read that the china server already got that fix a while back and CCP said it would not be implemented in Tranquility. Well here it is. Your logic = epic fail. No flame intended
Originally by: Shar Tegral Where did CCP say it would never be implemented? Linkage or it didn't happen.
Originally by: Zinnn Enough people have said so on this forum for it to be fact that they did indeed say it wouldn't happen.
I'm sending you my medical bills. I laughed so hard at your statement I think I've got a hernia. No flame intended but there a some very simple ("very simple" counts as well) words to describe you if you actually believe rabble when they are rabbling. I can directly tell you for a fact that you will not find any such statement. Not because CCP is that good at covering up (because let's face it - they ain't) but because I've been here being a thorn in CCP's side wherever they fall short. Now, stop focusing on what they did and focus on the ineptness of how they did it. What they did was right but overdue. How they did it is the classic CCP screw up. 'Nuff said.
CCP alt spotted. |
Zatharyn
Minmatar Ridiculously Serious Research
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Posted - 2008.10.14 22:08:00 -
[2740]
CCP really did a poor job handling this.
All changes aside, the way this issue was dealt with was slimy and sneaky.
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Jocho
Caldari Warped Mining
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Posted - 2008.10.14 22:08:00 -
[2741]
Originally by: Catherine Frasier
Originally by: Zinnn OK so a LITTLE bugfix is not important, even though it is a fix (according to them) ... That makes no sense.
Jesus dude, you ever play Eve? There are millions of little "bugs", flaws, imbalances and gaps that need fixing, or tweaking, or removing. As time (sometimes years) goes by they generally get fixed or changed.
A five year bug...which was written into the tutorial page as well as CCP staff saying that Tranquility would keep it. Yes. That seems to be a bug. A bug which CCP wanted to keep. Uhuh.
Do you even understand what a bug is? It's something that is fixed as soon as it can be or is noticed. And if a serious case of schizophrenia came across the CCP staff, then why did they change their story? This isn't a case of fixing a typo in a mission or response time of Concord. The issue with this so called "bug" is that it affects real life payments, AFTER the price has already increased, with very little to show for it.
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Alex Salas
BROTHERHOOD OF SPARTA Pupule 'Ohana
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 22:08:00 -
[2742]
Originally by: Shar Tegral
Where did CCP say it would never be implemented? Linkage or it didn't happen.[/justify]
http://myeve.eve-online.com/updates/patchnotes.asp?patchlogID=99
On the Serenity server, skills no longer train when the owning account is deactivated. Tranquility is not affected by this change.
___ EVE lies...rotating FTL!!!
http://myeve.eve-online.com/updates/patchnotes.asp?patchlogID=99
On the Serenity server, skills no longer train when the owning account is deactivated. Tranqu |
Shar Tegral
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 22:08:00 -
[2743]
Originally by: 10of10 CCP alt spotted.
Alt of a moron spotted. Ooops did I type that outloud?
To Shar -verb: 1 - To say what you mean. 2 - To say what it means. 3 - To say something mean. |
Shard Merchant
Minmatar
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 22:08:00 -
[2744]
Originally by: Catherine Frasier That's pretty simple. Until it was being exploited heavily enough (or until they noticed that it was being exploited heavily enough) to be a serious problem it was not worth the emoragequitfest that we're seeing here right now. Counts change, the game evolves, what was slightly annoying once becomes more important.
Mate, this can't be compared to an exploit.
First: An exploit is the circumvention of game mechanics for personal gain. This might include personal gain, but it isn't circumventing anything. There is nothing in EVE to suggest that character training should be linked to the status of your account. At most you can infer that you need an active account to change skills.
Second: This is the equivalent of saying asteroids in asteroid belts are too close together, allowing ships to mine multiple rocks without moving. Its been around since the creation of the game. Sure, you can claim it was unintended because its not a feature CCP added after the game went live, but if you go back far enough, someone somewhere had to make a conscious decision that things should be this way.
Third: Consider insta-jump bookmarks. They were a blatant circumvention of game mechanics for personal gain; ie, an exploit. Like this, it too became widespread among the playerbase. It was completely unintentional in the sense that: CCP never explicitly added as a feature and that it was never a part of the game from the start. Yet, they chose to completely legitimize it afterward.
Ghost training isn't an exploit, period. Whether its unintentional or a bug is up for discussion, but entirely irrelevant. CCP have historically proven that clear exploits and metagaming can become legitimized as "emergent gameplay". This seems to imply that CCP at least consider whether something is good before deciding to change it.
Whether this is a good gameplay mechanic or not is also up for discussion and debate, but then, why aren't focusing the priority changes from the top?
- We have passive Research Point gain even if the account is inactive. - We also get the benefit of implants long after we lose them if we remember to set a long skill before getting podded. - We also have a situation where jump clones are not being used for their originally intended purpose, but to protect implants.
Ghost training is not only the most ambiguous in regards to effect on gameplay, but its the only situation that has any financial relevance.
The evidence that this has next to nothing to do with gameplay is overwhelming, but you support CCP's party line (given by news posts and dev blogs) by repeating the words exploit, unintentional and bug.
You and others choose to look the other way because you can't stand the idea of CCP damaging the player experience for more money and little else. I salute your naivety Catherine Fraiser. o7 |
Shea Halley
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 22:09:00 -
[2745]
Well I would like to thank CCP for doing the honorable thing and reactivating the account site, that seemed quite shady. I have canceled my two accounts due the fact the Ghost Training mechanic is one thing that attracted me to the game. I understand it is their product and the decision to take it out of the game is their right. My right is to not pay for a product I feel is being altered without any prior notification or explanation. I am pretty aggrevated that I just signed up for the Power of Two only two weeks ago so there goes $70 dollars of my money I will not recoup nor have an desire to enjoy. And those of you that are saying "leave noobs, go back to WOW" and the such, you do understand for each person that leaves is less money for them to develop the game for you. I have only been here a year but can tell you that they are severly lacking in content now, so just imagine one patch a year. Food for thought before you villify those of us who have chosen to speak with our wallet, which may affect your gameplay.
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EnslaverOfMinmatar
Yarsk Hunters DeaDSpace Coalition
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 22:11:00 -
[2746]
Joo nao has onli 2 choycez: 1. gief stuffs to mi 2. tresh u're stuffs and beeomass u're keriktur
chuuz waisly
Skills continue training even if you are logged off or if your account is inactive (in the second scenario you can't change skill tr |
Zinnn
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 22:11:00 -
[2747]
Edited by: Zinnn on 14/10/2008 22:11:52
Originally by: ISIAM
Originally by: Zinnn
Originally by: Shar Tegral
Originally by: Zinnn Perhaps you didn't read that the china server already got that fix a while back and CCP said it would not be implemented in Tranquility. Well here it is. Your logic = epic fail. No flame intended
Where did CCP say it would never be implemented? Linkage or it didn't happen.
Enough people have said so on this forum for it to be fact that they did indeed say it wouldn't happen. That is, unless CCP has deleted those posts.. I wouldn't doubt it if they did to be honest. I think this entire thread is just crowd control and trying to sway public opinion by people like catherine. Seriously people who are noobs should not ask for stuff they can search for on even independent websites, but I trust the like 20 people or so that have said it already.
Yes finally somebody gets it. that's exactly what is happening. Big Indeed. (..)
Search independent websites then if you don't believe me. if 20 people got the impression that ccp was saying it, then come on. Why not update both servers at the same time? Seriously answer me that. If people believe that CCP just simply dragged their heels.... that's not like CCP for so-called "bugfixes"... For features, yes they drag their heels. Bugfixes, no. I'd appreciate next time people quoting my entire quote as opposed to just editing whatever you'd like to your liking. Thank you very much.
EDIT: so yes, as people have said... I think we see a few CCP alts trying to play around on their own forum and change public opinion.
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Soriana Ter'Ridar
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 22:13:00 -
[2748]
Removing ghost training actually creates an imbalance. If I take a break from EvE, what is the incentive to come back? Battleship 5....crusier 5 etc...not any more. And lets be honest, EvE isn't exaclty a top notch game - its gameplay and graphics are very dated. And for $200+ a year, I think anyone can find a better game, I know I will. It's amazing how you comepletly overlook the fact that CCP have lied to you and your getting less for more money, and instead you hold a torch for them. How far will they have to go until you say "enoughs enough, that's just bulls**t"
I agree with you having started to play WAR which looks awesome, plays awesome, and is CHEAPER than eve because they gor rid of the 30/90day etcs. But this will imbalance the game only the rich will be able to keep their toons training constantly, in the end it will be only the rich be able to fly the decent ships. I know it may sound far fetched but with the recent economy/fuel crisis's adding up no one will have that extra few quid to spare to log on for 60days.
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Wygg
Minmatar Hadean Drive Yards Archaean Cooperative
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 22:13:00 -
[2749]
Originally by: Alex Salas On the Serenity server, skills no longer train when the owning account is deactivated. Tranquility is not affected by this change.
Word parsing says Tranquility "is not affected," not "will never be affected."
Read the EULA section 6 article A. It says:
Quote: CCP may, in its sole discretion, cease to provide any or all of the services offered in connection with EVE (including access to the System and any or all features or components of the Game)
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Zinnn
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Posted - 2008.10.14 22:14:00 -
[2750]
Edited by: Zinnn on 14/10/2008 22:16:55
Originally by: Alex Salas
Originally by: Shar Tegral
Where did CCP say it would never be implemented? Linkage or it didn't happen.[/justify]
http://myeve.eve-online.com/updates/patchnotes.asp?patchlogID=99
On the Serenity server, skills no longer train when the owning account is deactivated. Tranquility is not affected by this change.
THANK YOU for mentioning something about this. Very helpful.
EDIT: The post above is invalid. This isn't a feature, it's a bug. So the EULA doesn't apply there. Thank you for playing
/sarcasm
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Vaal Erit
Science and Trade Institute
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Posted - 2008.10.14 22:14:00 -
[2751]
Are people really emo-rage-quitting because CCP called ghost skilling a bug instead of an unintended feature?
You do realize that everything is an unintended feature if CCP decides it is and they can change their mind whenever they want, right?
Also, emo-rage-quitting because CCP is trying to make money (SHOCKING!) is dumb.
Regardless of how CCP is wording it, explain why you should be able to "level up" or do anything on an inactive account. --
http://desusig.crumplecorn.com/sigs.html
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SkwisgaarSkwigelf
C.R.M Productions
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Posted - 2008.10.14 22:15:00 -
[2752]
Originally by: Shard Merchant
Mate, this can't be compared to an exploit.
First: An exploit is the circumvention of game mechanics for personal gain. This might include personal gain, but it isn't circumventing anything. There is nothing in EVE to suggest that character training should be linked to the status of your account. At most you can infer that you need an active account to change skills.
Second: This is the equivalent of saying asteroids in asteroid belts are too close together, allowing ships to mine multiple rocks without moving. Its been around since the creation of the game. Sure, you can claim it was unintended because its not a feature CCP added after the game went live, but if you go back far enough, someone somewhere had to make a conscious decision that things should be this way.
Third: Consider insta-jump bookmarks. They were a blatant circumvention of game mechanics for personal gain; ie, an exploit. Like this, it too became widespread among the playerbase. It was completely unintentional in the sense that: CCP never explicitly added as a feature and that it was never a part of the game from the start. Yet, they chose to completely legitimize it afterward.
Ghost training isn't an exploit, period. Whether its unintentional or a bug is up for discussion, but entirely irrelevant. CCP have historically proven that clear exploits and metagaming can become legitimized as "emergent gameplay". This seems to imply that CCP at least consider whether something is good before deciding to change it.
Whether this is a good gameplay mechanic or not is also up for discussion and debate, but then, why aren't focusing the priority changes from the top?
- We have passive Research Point gain even if the account is inactive. - We also get the benefit of implants long after we lose them if we remember to set a long skill before getting podded. - We also have a situation where jump clones are not being used for their originally intended purpose, but to protect implants.
Ghost training is not only the most ambiguous in regards to effect on gameplay, but its the only situation that has any financial relevance.
The evidence that this has next to nothing to do with gameplay is overwhelming, but you support CCP's party line (given by news posts and dev blogs) by repeating the words exploit, unintentional and bug.
You and others choose to look the other way because you can't stand the idea of CCP damaging the player experience for more money and little else. I salute your naivety Catherine Fraiser. o7
:trophy:
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Erimisha
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.10.14 22:16:00 -
[2753]
Originally by: Catherine Frasier
Originally by: FalconBayerskt Have CCP responded yet?? (dont have the time to check 80+ pages)
Responded to what? The dev blog linked in the OP covers it all pretty well, what else is there to say?
There have been thousands of posts (this thread alone is probably close to 2800 posts) by probably 1000+ actual different people in less than 24 hours on the matter. First in multiple locked posts and now in an never before seen act of a "disappearing post" that CCP can't seem to restore to the Information portal (how convenient that no one can easily see this 90 page (and counting) threadnaught on the matter). Yes, there is a link in ANOTHER locked thread pointing to here. Can you tell by that link how many pages of disagreement to this change there is? How convenient is it that the only link here is in a locked post that people will likely skip over since it is locked like the other 2 official posts and at least half a dozen multi-page protests?
Surely CCP might want to say *something* about the response?
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Shar Tegral
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Posted - 2008.10.14 22:17:00 -
[2754]
Originally by: Alex Salas Linkage Originally by: Old Patch Notes On the Serenity server, skills no longer train when the owning account is deactivated. Tranquility is not affected by this change.
Forgive me, I prettied it up for you out of sheer gratitude. Thank you for proving my point. Even the patch notes do not say this change would never be implemented. Just that it was not at that time. Of course if you are looking for the "one person" who complained about this matter: Linkage. Trust me, I care little about your tears over the matter. Very little at all. However I am very surprised that so many are disappointed in the PR fiasco by CCP. Guess yall ain't been here long enough to know that CCP does not handle dishing out bad news well. But in fairness to CCP, this community can be a bunch of whining little momma boys (& girls) at the best of times. This ain't the best of times though.
To Shar -verb: 1 - To say what you mean. 2 - To say what it means. 3 - To say something mean. |
Paradise Dreamer
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Posted - 2008.10.14 22:18:00 -
[2755]
Originally by: Soriana Ter'Ridar
I agree with you having started to play WAR which looks awesome, plays awesome, and is CHEAPER than eve because they gor rid of the 30/90day etcs. But this will imbalance the game only the rich will be able to keep their toons training constantly, in the end it will be only the rich be able to fly the decent ships. I know it may sound far fetched but with the recent economy/fuel crisis's adding up no one will have that extra few quid to spare to log on for 60days.
That's no problem. If there will be only the richest ones - CCP will pull up the prices for gtc... affordable for those players. Economics. (and less laggy indeed)
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ISIAM
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Posted - 2008.10.14 22:18:00 -
[2756]
Okey, so I've been here all day and listened to most of all sides of this argument, What I want to know now is; Those of us that are obviously against this and/or how it was handled. What constructive thing are we going to do ? ; And do you think there is any chance we will be heard? Yours still sadly, "ISIAM"
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Bistot Kid
The First Thing You'll Ever See
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Posted - 2008.10.14 22:19:00 -
[2757]
Originally by: Zinnn bistot kid, I"m not using that feature and I"m still upset. Your logic is flawed.
On the off chance you see this in amongst a million pages ...
Why? Why do you care? I've used the feature for two weeks once, and I barely care. It was a bonus we once had and now we don't any more. We'll get over it. -------------------- What? Me Worry? -------------------- |
Ayrion Centare
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.10.14 22:19:00 -
[2758]
I like to stay in the background but I think it is important for those of us who disagree to let CCP know.
Ghost Training is specifically one of the features that attracted me to EVE.
I never got into any other MMOs because I have a life and I simply can't dedicate the time necessary to grind up a powerful end-game character. And if I couldn't do that, it seemed like waste of time and money to even get started. So I didn't.
When I first learn about EVE and it's skill training model and the ability to ghost train I thought it was genius. Finally an MMO that doesn't punish me for having a life. I could take extended stretches of time outside the game but still continue to level my character towards end game. Ghost training was a huge selling point for me.
I'd like to have some empathy for CCP especially with current market condition, but their treatment of the matter has been despicable. The outright lie that ghost training was an unintended bug instead of a feature clearly written in your own player manual is so rude and disrespectful it's insulting.
If ghost training took such a financial toll and was an actual bug you could have protected yourself easily by stating in your player manual that ghost training is an unintended feature caused by a bug and it will be removed. Even if it took you 5 years to remove it nobody could make a fuss because it was clearly stated.
Right now you guys at CCP are not in the best position. It either looks like:
There was a bug that existed in your skill training system for 5 years that you actually called a feature in your own player manual which makes you look stupid and incompetent.
or
Or this is an attempt to squeeze your customers for extra subs by lying and disabling a well known feature that made your MMO distinct from other MMOs when it came to character advancement which makes you look desperate and pathetic.
This is a deal breaker for me.
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supr3m3justic3
Caldari Hakata Group
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Posted - 2008.10.14 22:20:00 -
[2759]
Originally by: Zinnn
Originally by: Catherine Frasier
Originally by: Creepin
Originally by: Catherine Frasier No. It was an unintended feature which was, in effect, a bug. Documenting it doesn't change that.
Oh, cmon, the bug that was unfixable for bloody five years and coincidentally got fixed at this exact moment, mwahaha
Coincidence takes two things. What's the other thing happening "at this exact moment" that makes it a conspiracy?
And, to be clear, nobody said it was "unfixable". It was merely not fixed until now.
I'm saying this again cause I recieved no reply the last time.
You know I can put merely in front of anything to make it sound minimizing. I merely cut a person in half. I merely robbed a bank. So what if it's MERELY not fixed until now. The question YOU have to ask yourself is WHY did they wait until NOW to fix it instead of fixing it when they had the technology YEARS AGO?? REPLY TO ME CATHERINE, you obviously have nothing better to do than to stick up for CCP, so answer.
why o why.......wait till now.... __________________________________________________
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=896318&page=91 |
Bistot Kid
The First Thing You'll Ever See
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Posted - 2008.10.14 22:22:00 -
[2760]
Originally by: Rufus Britton if I want to stay on par skillswise with everyone else, if I don't I will fall behind.
You're gaining or falling behind all the time, unless someone has cloned us all with the same implants, learning skills and starting stats.
There's two people out of hundreds of thousands in the game who have a unique position. One has the most SP. One has the least. Everyone else is not special and sits somewhere in between.
Don't treat it like a race and you won't get stressed out! -------------------- What? Me Worry? -------------------- |
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Duskadantor
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Posted - 2008.10.14 22:23:00 -
[2761]
Hiya folks!
Just back from a month long afk skill train. I count myself lucky that the skill was completed before the 15th of October.
"Phew!"
I'm none too happy with how people have become so upset over this news. It's players that make eve the game it is, and so this thread causes me some worry for the future of eve and its players.
If so many people, can feel so strongly for such a change to eve, days before it's implemented, then what the hoola will the mood be like when its in full affect and folk are returning to their accounts.
skill training = fail
'courtesy of new CCP game improvements'
If your an unlucky soul to stumble upon this, just try to remember... It's not the end of the world. We still have each other and ice cream!
*Whistles a tune*
'Always Look on the Bright Side of Life'
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Mjolnirsmith
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Posted - 2008.10.14 22:24:00 -
[2762]
I agree with what many people have posted above- the fact that a 90+ page thread is buried as a link within another 50 page thread is downright scandalous. CCP is giving lip service to open discussion, but really relegating it to a far hidden corner of the forums.
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CIA1
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Posted - 2008.10.14 22:25:00 -
[2763]
Come on you can't all be working for C.C.P., ...Oh s**T you do... Run away, run away.
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Salt Dober
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Posted - 2008.10.14 22:27:00 -
[2764]
Good thing they gave us plenty of warning for this upcoming change...real user friendly...
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Kyusoath Orillian
Council Of Internal war
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Posted - 2008.10.14 22:27:00 -
[2765]
this is bad, , can't believe they are doing this.
then the other blog about certs.
what are you doing with the money CCP ? cos i do not see it going to make the game better.
when i started this game , i had such high hopes, i thought CCP were a good company.
this change is the final straw, i may come back , i'll read about whats happening but i can't stick around hoping you'll make the game better and all the time doing things like this and the pointless certificates crap. massive wastes of resources
i really think you have started to take the playerbase for granted now.
for those that played and SWG, i recently went back after leaving in 2005, and i must say, its a lot better. they really did a good job recovering from the CU/NGE hell.
never thought i'd have more faith in SOE than CCP.
i beg you CCP, give us something new fix the bugs and imbalanced mechanics, stop wasting time doing this, stop f*cking about with Certs, update promises that never happen(AF's/Need for speed ?/wild and crazy speed changes/economy insanity/GTC rip offs/half done un-needed GFX update/WIS waste of time that will come out just after Duke nukem forever)
-2 accounts
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Undeadas2
LDK Kraftwerk.
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Posted - 2008.10.14 22:28:00 -
[2766]
Edited by: Undeadas2 on 14/10/2008 22:30:27 CCP just shooting itself to the foot... another sad day.
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Duskadantor
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Posted - 2008.10.14 22:32:00 -
[2767]
Originally by: Mjolnirsmith I agree with what many people have posted above- the fact that a 90+ page thread is buried as a link within another 50 page thread is downright scandalous. CCP is giving lip service to open discussion, but really relegating it to a far hidden corner of the forums.
Urm I found this thread by following the orange/yellow text from EVE Homepage:
Headline News > Ghost Training > Dev Blog > Comments
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ISIAM
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Posted - 2008.10.14 22:32:00 -
[2768]
Okey, so I've been here all day and listened to most of all sides of this argument, What I want to know now is; Those of us that are obviously against this and/or how it was handled. What constructive thing are we going to do ? ; And do you think there is any chance we will be heard? Yours still sadly, "ISIAM"
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Essyl Moss
Caldari Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2008.10.14 22:32:00 -
[2769]
I am playing multiple games, and was a player willing to pay every other month to maintain training on the chance I wish to return. The cost to do this has just increased 100%. Regardless of what is being discussed, whom ever agrees to a 100% price hike?
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Shar Tegral
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Posted - 2008.10.14 22:33:00 -
[2770]
Originally by: Ayrion Centare I never got into any other MMOs because I have a life and I simply can't dedicate the time necessary to grind up a powerful end-game character.
If you think you need to spend a lot of time playing Eve to get a powerful end game character you are woefully mistaken. There is no amount of time you can play Eve that will get you to end game content any faster. None, nada, zilch. Originally by: Ayrion Centare The outright lie that ghost training was an unintended bug instead of a feature clearly written in your own player manual is so rude and disrespectful it's insulting.
Yes, because you are the one rare new player who read the entire manual and said to yourself, " I can deactivate my playing account and get ahead! Woohoo!!" Yeah, suuuuuuure. And these are the people questioning CCP's credibility in this thread?!? Ha, ha, and triple ha.
To Shar -verb: 1 - To say what you mean. 2 - To say what it means. 3 - To say something mean. |
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ISIAM
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Posted - 2008.10.14 22:34:00 -
[2771]
Originally by: Essyl Moss I am playing multiple games, and was a player willing to pay every other month to maintain training on the chance I wish to return. The cost to do this has just increased 100%. Regardless of what is being discussed, whom ever agrees to a 100% price hike?
Indeed (..)
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Soras Evadon
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Posted - 2008.10.14 22:34:00 -
[2772]
ffs, cant you peeps ever fix something in need of fixing once, like make HICs require interdictors skill to use or resize caldari BS so they arent the size of cruisers? I remember seeing this advertised as a feature before and now its a "bug". Also, you say its to balance it, so what happens to all the people who¦ve made use of it up till now? Not to mention we have to have a active account to change skills anyways. This is not going to balance the present situation at all, please, put your hearts back into the game and not into filling your pockets.
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StealthGerbils
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Posted - 2008.10.14 22:36:00 -
[2773]
I say we all go in jita and shoot each other in noob ships till they decide to not go through with this change.
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Julius Rigel
House Rigel
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Posted - 2008.10.14 22:36:00 -
[2774]
Originally by: ISIAM Okey, so I've been here all day and listened to most of all sides of this argument, What I want to know now is; Those of us that are obviously against this and/or how it was handled. What constructive thing are we going to do ? ; And do you think there is any chance we will be heard? Yours still sadly, "ISIAM"
Whatever you do, don't stop posting, this thread is so much fun to read.
Frigate racing is fast and fun! |
Bistot Kid
The First Thing You'll Ever See
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Posted - 2008.10.14 22:37:00 -
[2775]
LOL. All this posturing and flexing and no-one will really leave. Well, not with this as the sole reason.
Why? Because those who care about this change, care too much about Eve. -------------------- What? Me Worry? -------------------- |
Erimisha
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.10.14 22:38:00 -
[2776]
Originally by: Bistot Kid
Originally by: Zinnn bistot kid, I"m not using that feature and I"m still upset. Your logic is flawed.
On the off chance you see this in amongst a million pages ...
Why? Why do you care? I've used the feature for two weeks once, and I barely care. It was a bonus we once had and now we don't any more. We'll get over it.
This is exactly like the last fiasco (free T2 BPOs for a certain alliance).
At first people get unhappy at the news that it happened (both the T2 BPOs and the Ghost Training nerf). Then people get *REALLY* mad at CCP's constant lying/changing reasons. Then people start to get enraged by CCP's complete lack of dealing with their upset customers. It is a progression of events.
Honestly I really don't care about the ghost training nerf. I've used it a few times, to be honest. However, I do NOT like being yanked around by devs. Unbalancing effect, no now it is a database issue, no, suddenly it is a 5 year old bug. A 'bug'? That is the best reason they could give? A bug they fixed on the Chinese server something like a year ago but *couldn't* fix here until now?
As always CCP's stance on the matter is hail-mary post deletions and cover ups. Don't believe me? Check out Eve-search and ask yourself why some of those posts were deleted..(Yes, some were over the top but not a good number of them)
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Zinnn
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Posted - 2008.10.14 22:40:00 -
[2777]
Originally by: ISIAM Okey, so I've been here all day and listened to most of all sides of this argument, What I want to know now is; Those of us that are obviously against this and/or how it was handled. What constructive thing are we going to do ? ; And do you think there is any chance we will be heard? Yours still sadly, "ISIAM"
as I said. Add features like only subscription skill queuing, adding ships like the orca. Add features, plain and simple. Give the people what they want for more end-game scenario's.. maybe figure out more learning skills or something as well, like a t3 learning skill set or something. Solves the issue... people use more ships, more ships get blown up, mining prices increase, mining becomes more lucrative.
On another note, where did catherine go? .... Come out to play catherine... I miss our discussions and pwning your logic.
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fuze
Gallente Chosen Path Veritas Immortalis
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Posted - 2008.10.14 22:40:00 -
[2778]
Did CCP recruit some guys who worked for SOE?
In Soviet Russia the ball drops you. |
Lag
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Posted - 2008.10.14 22:42:00 -
[2779]
Originally by: Bistot Kid LOL. All this posturing and flexing and no-one will really leave. Well, not with this as the sole reason.
Why? Because those who care about this change, care too much about Eve.
I care about this change, and I will leave Eve (already cancelled with 3 days left) permanently if they go through with it, as will many others.
Warhammer Online: Age of Reckoning is a really fun game...
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Zinnn
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Posted - 2008.10.14 22:42:00 -
[2780]
Originally by: Bistot Kid
Originally by: Zinnn bistot kid, I"m not using that feature and I"m still upset. Your logic is flawed.
On the off chance you see this in amongst a million pages ...
Why? Why do you care? I've used the feature for two weeks once, and I barely care. It was a bonus we once had and now we don't any more. We'll get over it.
I want to keep my options open. I've seen a lot of people do the same thing - get bored, or go to war, had to move, take a vacation, etc and then come back once they've had a break from eve. Breaks from eve work because the incentive is there to come back to eve. Remove the incentive and the chances of people coming back is smaller. I don't want to be one of those people that get bored and then get fed up with the monotony of skill training.... I'd get more isk before I can fly the stuff that I"m training for. That's a first for eve - you have the cash, just not the skills. I don't think that's right and I can see that happening to me.
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Skogen Gump
Jericho Fraction
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Posted - 2008.10.14 22:42:00 -
[2781]
I asked this before, but it got lost in the drama:
CCP said that they need to affect this change to help DB issues, fair enough - I'll concede that they have stable finances as they've said as much this week, being that their income is in euros and dollars (as long as their bank is too...), so let's think of an alternative that will reduce some DB pressure and improve financial situations for CCP by mandating a provision for ghost training (never a bad thing!) So, considering the outcry, Will CCP consider a tradeoff ?
Let Ghost Training happen for accounts that are attached to an account that has an active subscription ?
So if I play my main character and want to let 2 alts lapse and learn Battleship 5 for instance, as I'm paying for my main and those 2 other characters are on the same credit card - could they be left alone to train ?
I know it's not ideal for CCP, but as they're being trained they *will* be used, and if they're being trained they *must* have been paid for to set the skill going, they *will* be paid for again to get the next skills progressing or to be actually used ... (even if you stipulate that such characters cannot be transfered, to stop character farmers)
Is this such a bad compromise - CCP gets some Win, the players who Ghost for good reasons get what they want too.
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Catherine Frasier
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Posted - 2008.10.14 22:43:00 -
[2782]
Originally by: Zinnn Perhaps you didn't read that the china server already got that fix a while back and CCP said it would not be implemented in Tranquility
As has been pointed out before, repeatedly, the statement was made that the change only affected Serenity at that time. It was never stated (nor was it even hinted) that it would never be changed on TQ. (In fact, if you ask me, that should have been a very clear sign that CCP was not exactly thrilled with ghost training.)
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Stormwind Bloodfeather
Minmatar Sogdian Traders Inc
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Posted - 2008.10.14 22:43:00 -
[2783]
from make_db_files import loadDbase, storeDbase db = loadDbase() db ['charactername']['accountstatus'] *=1 (active) db ['charactername']['accountstatus'] *=0 (inactive) db ['skilltraining']['accountname'] = 'charactername accountname' db ['skilltraining']['accountstatus'] =1 skilltrain =0 skillpause storeDbase (db)
Hard to have implemented in Python? no.
Should have been done a long time ago due to it's ease? yes.
my example code above isn't clean, i'm not great at Python. But it's not hard to implement.
Stormwind
In EVE, your only friend is your ship and it's weapons. All others are the enemy! |
Bistot Kid
The First Thing You'll Ever See
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Posted - 2008.10.14 22:44:00 -
[2784]
Originally by: Erimisha As always CCP's stance on the matter is hail-mary post deletions and cover ups. Don't believe me? Check out Eve-search and ask yourself why some of those posts were deleted..(Yes, some were over the top but not a good number of them)
Fair enough. I wish they'd be more upfront about it and just say the patently obvious "We're a business. We want to make more money."
The Dev blog about this training putting a measurable load on the servers is pretty laughable TBH.
... but we'll still get over it. -------------------- What? Me Worry? -------------------- |
Shard Merchant
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.10.14 22:44:00 -
[2785]
Originally by: Mjolnirsmith I agree with what many people have posted above- the fact that a 90+ page thread is buried as a link within another 50 page thread is downright scandalous. CCP is giving lip service to open discussion, but really relegating it to a far hidden corner of the forums.
Couldn't resist. _______________________________________________ CCP CENSORSHIP ALERT: CAN YOU SPOT IT? |
Sky Marshal
State Protectorate
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Posted - 2008.10.14 22:45:00 -
[2786]
Edited by: Sky Marshal on 14/10/2008 23:01:32
Get a skill while the account is inactive, is fair.
We speak about Eve Online, the only game in the world who use a time-based system to get skills/experience, so the casual/veteran skill separation is pretty big and can be an important factor for some players.
Of course, many will tell me that is not a problem etc, that the beginner can kill a veteran...... I don't trust this as skills give a good advantage to the veteran, this is a fact.
The skill system is unfair by nature as it is not work-based, but this is also better as we don't have to play 23/7 each day to have a better character, but we have to wait months and specialize to try to be efficient...
So the Ghost Training let a small equality between paid and unpaid account as this feature help to limit a few the distance between casuals and hardcore games, and reduce the frustration of the player when he would come back of his break.
Remember that this "advantage" has only 40 days maximum, depending of the skill and your implants. I personaly lose two or three months of training time by some breaks because I didn't return in EvE just when the skills were finished, but I was still happy to be able to use a new ship or new capabilities when I returned, as I hate long skills (the ratio "time used/advantage at end" is difficult to accept sometimes).
Also, inactive accounts don't permit to change skills and don't give the amount of ISK required to buy the new toy who give the skill just learned (Well, this last point is not true all the time).
But yes, maybe some players use this feature too much for character training, but this is positive for CCP. A player who paid 2 accounts full time and 1 partially still give more money than only two accounts full time... If some players who post in this topic act really and reduce their number of accounts they used, CCP will have less money, same if the total accounts number remains the same (we can't erase an account).
A limitation of the time offered by the Ghost Training would be a good compromise. 15/20 days ? This don't help to finish long skill as there are mostly nearly 25 days, but this still give a good motivation after a break and make people who use the actual system pay more earlier, but with less frustration than a simple deletion.
What it is REALLY unfair, is so that unpaid accounts can generate ISK by R&D agents and sell orders market. Retire this would help to limit inflation and some market problems, and would be really fair about active players who work to generate credits.
After that, it is the CCP, and some players who support them, choice :
Compromise, or radicalism.
But at least, CCP can avoid bad communication, lies and silence...
Just to finish by me, my two accounts expires respectively the 25/10 and 29/10. I hesitate about make them full of characters to use R&D to compensate the obligation of pay all the time, with the help of some GTCs (so this parasitize the datacore market), or shutdown one account (less money for CCP so...), or the two (maybe this is the best moment to begin others things and games).
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GateScout
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Posted - 2008.10.14 22:45:00 -
[2787]
Perfect timing CCP. My accounts are expiring this week (all 4 of them). As I'm headed overseas for the foreseeable future, I set a long skill to train looking forward to coming back in a few months.
Guess that won't be happening. I see a net decrease in revenue in CCP's future. Give our regards to your banking ministers....as they did a bang up job too.
Adios. -4x accounts.
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James Marshalll
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.10.14 22:45:00 -
[2788]
Edited by: James Marshalll on 14/10/2008 22:47:26
Originally by: Zinnn
On another note, where did catherine go? .... Come out to play catherine... I miss our discussions and pwning your logic.
must be passed her shift and ccp didnt want to pay overtime
damn the economy is screwing ccp damage control alts too!
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Jocho
Caldari Warped Mining
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Posted - 2008.10.14 22:46:00 -
[2789]
Originally by: Catherine Frasier
Originally by: Zinnn Perhaps you didn't read that the china server already got that fix a while back and CCP said it would not be implemented in Tranquility
As has been pointed out before, repeatedly, the statement was made that the change only affected Serenity at that time. It was never stated (nor was it even hinted) that it would never be changed on TQ. (In fact, if you ask me, that should have been a very clear sign that CCP was not exactly thrilled with ghost training.)
As i have constantly said, if CCP was not thrilled then why was it around for 5 years?!?! Why did CCP mention it on the tutorial page?!?! Why did the mods say it would not be removed from Tranquilty?!?! If it was a bug, none of that would have happened. Simple.
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Zinnn
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Posted - 2008.10.14 22:48:00 -
[2790]
Originally by: Catherine Frasier
Originally by: Zinnn Perhaps you didn't read that the china server already got that fix a while back and CCP said it would not be implemented in Tranquility
As has been pointed out before, repeatedly, the statement was made that the change only affected Serenity at that time. It was never stated (nor was it even hinted) that it would never be changed on TQ. (In fact, if you ask me, that should have been a very clear sign that CCP was not exactly thrilled with ghost training.)
you tell me the purpose of serenity. Then I can adequately reply.
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Catherine Frasier
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Posted - 2008.10.14 22:49:00 -
[2791]
Originally by: Alex Salas
Originally by: Shar Tegral Where did CCP say it would never be implemented? Linkage or it didn't happen.[/justify]
On the Serenity server, skills no longer train when the owning account is deactivated. Tranquility is not affected by this change.
Hmm, is the word "never" written in a really tiny font or something? 'Cause I can't see it there.
And, as we've said over and over, the reason TQ is mentioned at all is that a dev had mistakenly said TQ would be affected. To clear things up they added the " Tranquility is not affected by this change."
The effort to turn that single patch note into some kind of permanent policy statement is, at best, one hell of a stretch.
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Medusa d'Mon
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Posted - 2008.10.14 22:49:00 -
[2792]
Originally by: Duskadantor
Originally by: Mjolnirsmith I agree with what many people have posted above- the fact that a 90+ page thread is buried as a link within another 50 page thread is downright scandalous. CCP is giving lip service to open discussion, but really relegating it to a far hidden corner of the forums.
Urm I found this thread by following the orange/yellow text from EVE Homepage:
Headline News > Ghost Training > Dev Blog > Comments
Well done you, although you are of course overlooking the fact that many people will have a link on their favs list that goes straight to the forums.
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Gorek Loc
Etherware Heavy Engineering
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Posted - 2008.10.14 22:51:00 -
[2793]
Odd to see that not a single reply from CCP has made it to the thread...
I'll keep it short: Don't remove what you cal ghost-training! It's a good thingto get players back to active mode!
DON'T CHANGE TRAINING!
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Sunshine Grifter
Gallente Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2008.10.14 22:52:00 -
[2794]
Does this mean we have to stay logged in all the time to train skills?
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Catherine Frasier
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Posted - 2008.10.14 22:52:00 -
[2795]
Originally by: Zinnn On another note, where did catherine go? .... Come out to play catherine...
Election day, I had to go vote. Thanks for your concern.
Originally by: Zinnn I miss our discussions and pwning your logic.
Yeah, I completely missed that too.
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11100010101
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Posted - 2008.10.14 22:52:00 -
[2796]
I can't wait for another catherine frasier response from the trenches
remarkable history, I must say.
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James Marshalll
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.10.14 22:52:00 -
[2797]
Originally by: Catherine Frasier
Originally by: Alex Salas
Originally by: Shar Tegral Where did CCP say it would never be implemented? Linkage or it didn't happen.[/justify]
On the Serenity server, skills no longer train when the owning account is deactivated. Tranquility is not affected by this change.
Hmm, is the word "never" written in a really tiny font or something? 'Cause I can't see it there.
And, as we've said over and over, the reason TQ is mentioned at all is that a dev had mistakenly said TQ would be affected. To clear things up they added the " Tranquility is not affected by this change."
The effort to turn that single patch note into some kind of permanent policy statement is, at best, one hell of a stretch.
who is this "we" you keep talking about? Finally admitting who your employer is or do you have a turd in your pocket.
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11100001010
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Posted - 2008.10.14 22:54:00 -
[2798]
Originally by: James Marshalll
who is this "we" you keep talking about?quote]
careful, you can push him too far ...
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Zinnn
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Posted - 2008.10.14 22:54:00 -
[2799]
Originally by: Catherine Frasier
Originally by: Alex Salas
Originally by: Shar Tegral Where did CCP say it would never be implemented? Linkage or it didn't happen.[/justify]
On the Serenity server, skills no longer train when the owning account is deactivated. Tranquility is not affected by this change.
Hmm, is the word "never" written in a really tiny font or something? 'Cause I can't see it there.
And, as we've said over and over, the reason TQ is mentioned at all is that a dev had mistakenly said TQ would be affected. To clear things up they added the " Tranquility is not affected by this change."
The effort to turn that single patch note into some kind of permanent policy statement is, at best, one hell of a stretch.
I still think you work for CCP. Seriously you're a bulldog with a bone here... and for what purpose? No purpose except to try to defeat our cause. Maybe you should start playing eve and stop being a forum troll.
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GypAtheNooB
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Posted - 2008.10.14 22:54:00 -
[2800]
To put it simply (sounds like it needs to be simple for some of u) for those of u who arnt enraged by this. This in itself is not a deal breaker. But wrapped up with 3-4 (please understant it is senior players who are most affected by this, u know the ones with multiple accounts) years of ships lost to game mechanic failures. ALL followed up with some lame ass excuse for not replacing a ship that cost them nothing but u and me multiple hours. Seeing over a long period of time CCP just not giving a damn about ppl who pay for a service (one that they wont stand by when its sh*ts itself, yes ive even lost ships with "we are experiencing difficulties" in the same log and a ship that wont warp while 80km from hostiles and a log not showing any attempt to warp scramble in the log). Thats what is a deal breaker, its not ghost training its the ongoing comtempt CCP has shown for the player base. If u dont get that, then u simply have never been burned by CCP YET, but ur time will come. Until then open ur eyes and FFS Listen to the other views here, they are out there for a reason. CCP TH BALL HAS BEEN DROPPED!! WILL U PICK IT UP??????????
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10of10
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Posted - 2008.10.14 22:57:00 -
[2801]
Originally by: GypAtheNooB To put it simply (sounds like it needs to be simple for some of u) for those of u who arnt enraged by this. This in itself is not a deal breaker. But wrapped up with 3-4 (please understant it is senior players who are most affected by this, u know the ones with multiple accounts) years of ships lost to game mechanic failures. ALL followed up with some lame ass excuse for not replacing a ship that cost them nothing but u and me multiple hours. Seeing over a long period of time CCP just not giving a damn about ppl who pay for a service (one that they wont stand by when its sh*ts itself, yes ive even lost ships with "we are experiencing difficulties" in the same log and a ship that wont warp while 80km from hostiles and a log not showing any attempt to warp scramble in the log). Thats what is a deal breaker, its not ghost training its the ongoing comtempt CCP has shown for the player base. If u dont get that, then u simply have never been burned by CCP YET, but ur time will come. Until then open ur eyes and FFS Listen to the other views here, they are out there for a reason. CCP TH BALL HAS BEEN DROPPED!! WILL U PICK IT UP??????????
No! they will not even unlock this thread to the eve public.... lol only way in is thru a locked thread |
x psy
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Posted - 2008.10.14 22:57:00 -
[2802]
Edited by: x psy on 14/10/2008 23:16:13 Edited by: x psy on 14/10/2008 23:11:06 Edited by: x psy on 14/10/2008 23:10:26 I've never used this feature (a 5 year long feature) but I hate when things get changed in a blink of an eye. Like those GTCs (30 and 90 days).
It's not like you were giving free playable time, if a player wanted to actually play a toon, he had to pay the subscription. Besides, he had to make a skill training decision during a payable subscription.
It is a little sad that the increase on the player base seems to reflect a increase of CCP's arrogance. I really dislike one handed decisions.
CCP -1 for the ninja edit.
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Shar Tegral
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Posted - 2008.10.14 22:58:00 -
[2803]
Originally by: Sky Marshal The skill system is unfair by nature as it is not work-based, but this is also better as we don't have to play 23/7 each day to have a better character, but we have to wait months and specialize to try to be efficient...
So the Ghost Training let a small equality between paid and unpaid account as this feature help to limit a few the distance between casuals and hardcore games, and reduce the frustration of the player when he would come back of his break.
This I agree with totally. I've never put down a mate that takes a break and lets a long skill train up. However the truth is that this "privilege" has become an industry. One that apparently does not fit in with CCP's belief of how accomplishment in Eve should be gained. An unintended aspect (noted as a feature in the past) was abused and the knock-on effect turned an unintended feature into something that CCP called a bug. However I have to be honest, fixing/changing this matters little in the bigger Eve picture. I've been watching friends leave Eve simply because they are tired of the direction Eve is going. The way this was handled is likely to simply be the last nail for many of them. Period. Of course the truth is this: People who make plans for Eve more than 2 years from now are dreamers imho. I don't think Eve will be gone by then but it will be a much smaller creature than it is now. CCP will release WoD and push that quite heavily. Tranquility will receive less coding love, less yaarrdware, and eventually less people will be here. But this outcome is not going to be on account of this change no matter how many whine that it is.
To Shar -verb: 1 - To say what you mean. 2 - To say what it means. 3 - To say something mean. |
Jimmy Cliff
Dawning Industries
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Posted - 2008.10.14 23:02:00 -
[2804]
Somebody is wrong!
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CIA1
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Posted - 2008.10.14 23:03:00 -
[2805]
I'm going to pay just to keep this thread going and maybe get heard...or then again... NOT!
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Triksterism
Gallente Frozen Corpse Inspection Services United Federation of Capsuleers
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Posted - 2008.10.14 23:03:00 -
[2806]
Originally by: Promethian child Now buying chars 100 isk per piece
This. -
Ghost Train & Snowflake |
Medusa d'Mon
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Posted - 2008.10.14 23:04:00 -
[2807]
Originally by: Shar Tegral
Originally by: Ayrion Centare I never got into any other MMOs because I have a life and I simply can't dedicate the time necessary to grind up a powerful end-game character.
If you think you need to spend a lot of time playing Eve to get a powerful end game character you are woefully mistaken. There is no amount of time you can play Eve that will get you to end game content any faster. None, nada, zilch. And these are the people questioning CCP's credibility in this thread?!? Ha, ha, and triple ha.
He said "other MMOs", not EVE.
Back at yer on the credibility issue. You're proving to be an incompetant pro CCP alt.
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SkwisgaarSkwigelf
C.R.M Productions
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Posted - 2008.10.14 23:05:00 -
[2808]
92 pages and zero CCP response.
Cynthera Noir > theyre just gonne be like Cynthera Noir > at the end Cynthera Noir > HAHAHAHAHA WE ****ING HAD YOU GOING, nah actually were gonna take away 0.0
come on and say something ccp.
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Zinnn
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Posted - 2008.10.14 23:05:00 -
[2809]
Originally by: Shar Tegral
Originally by: Sky Marshal The skill system is unfair by nature as it is not work-based, but this is also better as we don't have to play 23/7 each day to have a better character, but we have to wait months and specialize to try to be efficient...
So the Ghost Training let a small equality between paid and unpaid account as this feature help to limit a few the distance between casuals and hardcore games, and reduce the frustration of the player when he would come back of his break.
This I agree with totally. I've never put down a mate that takes a break and lets a long skill train up. However the truth is that this "privilege" has become an industry. One that apparently does not fit in with CCP's belief of how accomplishment in Eve should be gained. An unintended aspect (noted as a feature in the past) was abused and the knock-on effect turned an unintended feature into something that CCP called a bug. However I have to be honest, fixing/changing this matters little in the bigger Eve picture. I've been watching friends leave Eve simply because they are tired of the direction Eve is going. The way this was handled is likely to simply be the last nail for many of them. Period. Of course the truth is this: People who make plans for Eve more than 2 years from now are dreamers imho. I don't think Eve will be gone by then but it will be a much smaller creature than it is now. CCP will release WoD and push that quite heavily. Tranquility will receive less coding love, less yaarrdware, and eventually less people will be here. But this outcome is not going to be on account of this change no matter how many whine that it is.
if you think for one second the people who are consistently paying attention to this thread is going to quit, you're right they're probably not. The problem is with all the other people that are fed up and have already told them once that they've quit... they're not going to say it again. The damage has already been done, and will continue to be done. PLain and simple. The full effect won't be known for an entire year.
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Psyminer
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Posted - 2008.10.14 23:06:00 -
[2810]
I almost sell my alt after gtc price increase, economy (in my country) are now instable making the prices (dollar based) go crazy, and now this. IÆm not sure what to do right now, but one thing I know; the time of multiple alts are gone.
PS: Sorry my bad English.
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Onimae Kusa
Caldari Evo Corporation
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Posted - 2008.10.14 23:07:00 -
[2811]
<sigh> This is sad. I've loved eve since I first started playing a little over 4 years ago. Still love it. But this is beyond ridiculous. I've rarely conciously chosen to use ghost training, them getting rid of it doesn't really bug me too much. I've left eve for breaks multiple times. Sometimes it was cuz of being burned out, sometimes something they did ****ed me off, but most of the time I didn't resub when whatever skill was on was finished, I continued doing w/e I was doing until I happened to get the eve itch again. I've probably lost 20-30 million sp simply because I was burned out. That doesn't bug me and the change coming doesn't bug me either. It's all in the way it was handled. I've never seen this massive amount of outcry over a change this quick. It speaks volumes. I remember a time when dev interaction was very commonplace. Those were better times. I'm afraid the game will never go back to those times. That feeling of a close knit community is gone. So am I.
RIP EVE
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Jocho
Caldari Warped Mining
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Posted - 2008.10.14 23:07:00 -
[2812]
Edited by: Jocho on 14/10/2008 23:11:45 Useful Link 1 Useful Link 2 Notice how he says "whipped" - clearly a bug if he's being done for saying it's going to be 'fixed'... Useful link 4
Some useful links, to show this is anything but a bug.
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SmokeyJones
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Posted - 2008.10.14 23:08:00 -
[2813]
I have 3 accounts and now, i need cant even take a break of one month of the payment?
Thats crazy, i will need to cancel one of them. Maybe transfer that cyno, research alt that is almost finished to one of the others.
You will loose one more subscription per month.
With the changes that CCP implemented in the GTCs, this has turned into a fiasco.
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Abrazzar
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Posted - 2008.10.14 23:12:00 -
[2814]
So it was unintended but kinda cool, so let's call it a feature. Then it got abused, oh well, it's not that bad. Then it gets abused even more until it becomes an issue. So it has to be fixed as the bug turned feature became a disease. Of course you can hang yourself over semantics, won't change anything really. Actually hanging yourself might be a good idea at this point.
Buh-bye crybabies. Stuffed yourself on free candy and now it's diet time.
-------- Ideas for: Mining
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Catherine Frasier
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Posted - 2008.10.14 23:12:00 -
[2815]
Originally by: Jocho http://img134.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ccpbeingcontradictoryvg6.png http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=430960&page=5#145 http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=450676&page=1#4 http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=504679&page=1#3
Some useful links, to show this is anything but a bug.
Those have been posted before, quite a few times. All they show is that this unintentional mechanism was known and documented and that it was not fixed on TQ when it was fixed on Serenity.
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Kheldon Fel
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Posted - 2008.10.14 23:14:00 -
[2816]
Originally by: Catherine Frasier
Originally by: Jocho http://img134.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ccpbeingcontradictoryvg6.png http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=430960&page=5#145 http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=450676&page=1#4 http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=504679&page=1#3
Some useful links, to show this is anything but a bug.
Those have been posted before, quite a few times. All they show is that this unintentional mechanism was known and documented and that it was not fixed on TQ when it was fixed on Serenity.
Your interpretation is suspect.
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Am Li
Caldari Dominion Gaming
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Posted - 2008.10.14 23:14:00 -
[2817]
Im dropping my alt account, it was fun Shara Croft. Yeah I'm only a few months old, 4 mil skill points, I was gonna keep them both for the long haul but I don't need two accounts which ill constantly have to pay for both to keep training.
Anyone want to buy a 4 mil s.p. char? 1.5mil gunnery, 1.6 Spaceship Command, ~700k learning? DOMINION GAMING, LAID BACK GAMING CLAN Recruitment Thread Homepage |
tim omarkson
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.10.14 23:15:00 -
[2818]
ccp program trying to say "this will help on the database"
They just add more to the database. the database will now do
1 = Is the accout active if yes go to step 2 or no got to step 1 2 = is there a skill on train if so add pt,if no skill go to step 1 3 = as skill end if so tell player if not go back to step 1
before
1 = is there a skill on train if so add pt,if no skill go to step 1 2 = as skill end if so tell player if not go back to step 1
so ccp is add more to the server cpu to do
In my eye ccp want more money. at as play can not all way pay on the day the account end but wait 1 day to 20 day to pay day,
play in high sec, low sec who can not rat and get 2,000,000 isk s kill and make the 400,000,000 isk for a timecode like all the older player and plays in real 0.0.
you are making the newbie pay for the old players
Sorry if the is hard the follow, wirting not easy for me
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Oftherocks
Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2008.10.14 23:16:00 -
[2819]
I've tried to look at this as though I was in charge of CCP's finances and it just doesn't make sense. Worst case scenario currently would be someone paying $15 every other month, as opposed to every month. I assume they believe those people will convert to paying $15 every month, but that is just an insane leap of logic. The people using the system currently don't want to pay $15 every month, they aren't going to switch to full time accounts because you are forcing them to; they will just cancel those extra accounts. So instead of having a number of people pay $15 every other month, you have a number of people canceling accounts. In no way does it make sense to give up $90 a year for $0 a year.
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Alex Salas
BROTHERHOOD OF SPARTA Pupule 'Ohana
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Posted - 2008.10.14 23:16:00 -
[2820]
Edited by: Alex Salas on 14/10/2008 23:18:43
Originally by: Jocho Edited by: Jocho on 14/10/2008 23:11:45 Useful Link 1 Useful Link 2 Notice how he says "whipped" - clearly a bug if he's being done for saying it's going to be 'fixed'... Useful link 4
loz
ctrl+f for CCP Jiekon
___ EVE lies...rotating FTL!!!
http://myeve.eve-online.com/updates/patchnotes.asp?patchlogID=99
On the Serenity server, skills no longer train when the owning account is deactivated. Tranqu |
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Daggaroth
Caldari Demio's Corporation 101010 Alliance
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Posted - 2008.10.14 23:16:00 -
[2821]
although i only own and operate one account right now, i understand the reason for "ghost-Training" some times real life hits your pocketbook and you are unable to pay for extras such as eve online, people may need to take a month off to help pay for other things and i think their skill should continue to train even if their account is inactive, if worse comes to worse they get 1 skill trained and they have to pay to come back and use said skill and then you have another happy, active member who is thankful that you were kind enough to let him continue to train.
one of the reasons people come to eve online for their gaming experence, is because of the training. its a game that advertises its training program and that you dont have to dedicate every waking moment to get ahead in this game, you can log in and out when you please. train what you please, when you please.
in my opinion, let it be, let the ghost trainers continue. Daggaroth's Webpage Development
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James Marshalll
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.10.14 23:16:00 -
[2822]
Originally by: Kheldon Fel
Originally by: Catherine Frasier
Originally by: Jocho http://img134.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ccpbeingcontradictoryvg6.png http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=430960&page=5#145 http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=450676&page=1#4 http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=504679&page=1#3
Some useful links, to show this is anything but a bug.
Those have been posted before, quite a few times. All they show is that this unintentional mechanism was known and documented and that it was not fixed on TQ when it was fixed on Serenity.
Your interpretation is suspect.
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO (in my best darth vader voice)
Now we will need to read another 200 posts from him about how this was just an understandable situation that CCP couldn't have helped. They were really just helping us players out by documenting this ONE bug for us so we knew it was there in the new user guide.
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Tarron Sarek
Gallente Biotronics Inc. Alternative Realities
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Posted - 2008.10.14 23:17:00 -
[2823]
Well the thing is, CCP depends on the players, not the other way around. Yes I know, quite some players are hooked and kinda also 'depend' on CCP. But that's not the market view, which seems to be the main focus in most argumentations.
So you'd better see things like a change of this magnitude from different viewpoints and with a healthy dose of caution.
I bet Sony was very self-confident and thought along the same lines when they initiated the SWG NGE fiasco. I also bet some people told them it was a bad idea and it would 'kill the game'. I'm pretty sure the responsible people reacted with something along the lines of "This can't fail. The Star Wars licence is too strong and people are addicted. Now go to work you stupid naysayer, before I fire you!". Well.. guess they were wrong after all.
Yes, things can work out for a long time, even if you make mistakes, even if your course is a dangerous one. That's what made the current economical crisis as bad as it is. People get careless and overcondfident. Critics are being muzzled and marked as scaremongers, since 'look, it has worked for so long, why should it stop working?'.
It's the customers' bloody right to voice their discontent. And it's wise for a company to keep an open ear for it.
___________________________________
Balance is power, guard hide it well
"Ceterum censeo Polycarbonem esse delendam" |
lceman
Gallente Destructive Influence Band of Brothers
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 23:17:00 -
[2824]
Edited by: lceman on 14/10/2008 23:21:32 ccp trying hard to be inline with other game company's like Valve or EA. Who more less is more focused on the themself than their playerbase.
Be carefull with what you wish for, you might end up with the oppesite. 0 creditebility as a company. If what not is, what is ?. |
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CCP t0rfifrans
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Posted - 2008.10.14 23:18:00 -
[2825]
The bug that became a feature
On Monday, we released news that we are disabling äGhost Trainingô, the ability to train characters on inactive accounts. This resulted in strong reactions from the community as many people were routinely making use of it. We explained the matter in more detail and pointed out that this had been a bug in the original game code. Those of us who were involved in the process of making the decision and communicating it to the community did not realize this bug had been so accepted as a feature that it was listed as such in our own documentation on our own website.
How can we not know whatæs in our own documentation? Well, to be frank, it was a case of insufficient communication on our part between various teams û a regrettable mistake and hard lesson to learn at the expense of the trust youæve placed in us. Thereæs no way to spin it and we wonæt add insult to injury by trying to do so. It was a mistake on our part and for that we sincerely and humbly apologize.
Many would hope that in light of this we will decide not to cancel ghost training and keep it active as an option but weære cannot to do that. EVE is already one-of-a-kind in allowing players to progress their characters through offline skill training. We stand by our policy that if you want your character to progress in EVE, you should pay the subscription fee. The fact that so many people have been able to do so for several years was our own oversight. We know this change, and our misstep in telling you about it, has created some discontent and we hope that over time we can prove our committment to make EVE better than ever for you will be evident as you enjoy the fruits of our labor.
Torfi
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Shar Tegral
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Posted - 2008.10.14 23:20:00 -
[2826]
Originally by: Medusa d'Mon You're proving to be an incompetant pro CCP alt.
Ah, yes. I'm the incompetent one indeed. Can't you come up with a better troll than "CCP Alt"? You obviously can type so I suspect you have some worthwhile gray matter though from your response I might be wrong. Of course, of the two of us you are the one with a lifetime achievement of 7 posts and all of them on this topic. Myself, I'm google-able. So who is the alt and truly which one of us admits to incompetence by hiding their main. (An envious little troll at that.) Perhaps I'll take you more seriously once you exceed 20 days on this alt: Originally by: Medusa d'Mon I've being playing and paying for this game non stop on 2 accounts since EA pulled the plug on EnB and I'm currently on 4 accounts.
Care to demonstrate some bravery and stop hiding behind your alt or is your main off ghosting. In closing: Not only do I hope you don't reactivate your ghosting accounts but I'd find some piece of mind if you canceled your subscription all together. Hopefully you'll make room for a better alt troll at the least.
To Shar -verb: 1 - To say what you mean. 2 - To say what it means. 3 - To say something mean. |
Zinnn
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Posted - 2008.10.14 23:20:00 -
[2827]
Originally by: Catherine Frasier
Originally by: Jocho http://img134.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ccpbeingcontradictoryvg6.png http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=430960&page=5#145 http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=450676&page=1#4 http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=504679&page=1#3
Some useful links, to show this is anything but a bug.
Those have been posted before, quite a few times. All they show is that this unintentional mechanism was known and documented and that it was not fixed on TQ when it was fixed on Serenity.
Again, why not? Answer this instead of just supporting CCP for their delayed response, otherwise shut up cause you're a broken record.
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Alex Salas
BROTHERHOOD OF SPARTA Pupule 'Ohana
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Posted - 2008.10.14 23:20:00 -
[2828]
Originally by: CCP t0rfifrans The bug that became a feature
On Monday, we released news that we are disabling äGhost Trainingô, the ability to train characters on inactive accounts. This resulted in strong reactions from the community as many people were routinely making use of it. We explained the matter in more detail and pointed out that this had been a bug in the original game code. Those of us who were involved in the process of making the decision and communicating it to the community did not realize this bug had been so accepted as a feature that it was listed as such in our own documentation on our own website.
How can we not know whatæs in our own documentation? Well, to be frank, it was a case of insufficient communication on our part between various teams û a regrettable mistake and hard lesson to learn at the expense of the trust youæve placed in us. Thereæs no way to spin it and we wonæt add insult to injury by trying to do so. It was a mistake on our part and for that we sincerely and humbly apologize.
Many would hope that in light of this we will decide not to cancel ghost training and keep it active as an option but weære cannot to do that. EVE is already one-of-a-kind in allowing players to progress their characters through offline skill training. We stand by our policy that if you want your character to progress in EVE, you should pay the subscription fee. The fact that so many people have been able to do so for several years was our own oversight. We know this change, and our misstep in telling you about it, has created some discontent and we hope that over time we can prove our committment to make EVE better than ever for you will be evident as you enjoy the fruits of our labor.
Torfi
Will CCP sweeten the pot for taking it away?
___ EVE lies...rotating FTL!!!
http://myeve.eve-online.com/updates/patchnotes.asp?patchlogID=99
On the Serenity server, skills no longer train when the owning account is deactivated. Tranqu |
Kheldon Fel
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Posted - 2008.10.14 23:21:00 -
[2829]
Originally by: CCP t0rfifrans we hope that over time we can prove our committment to make EVE better than ever for you will be evident as you enjoy the fruits of our labor.
Yeah, you call me when that happens.
Have me paged.
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NAM TRON
HeartVenom Inc.
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Posted - 2008.10.14 23:21:00 -
[2830]
I'll post here too since I've already posted in the original locked discussion.
Basically, epic fail comes to mind. :P
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Bruce Deorum
Minmatar Mythos Corp RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2008.10.14 23:22:00 -
[2831]
We sometimes have obligations, need to take some long breaks for RL issues. (military service, University Exams, etc, etc)
I 100% percent dont know if after a break of 4-5 months (due to army service) would have returned to EVE. I would propably have forgotten it. But i thought hey, lets buy 2 30days cards (back when they existed) and with a good skill management, i could have somethink to look forward to. Now its gone.
I grow up and now have to accounts. I got the second from a retired mate. I sometimes use both, i sometimes use one while the other is ghost-training (nice term). When one expires, i use the other with about 10-15 days of simultaneus active accounts.
I guess now, i'll just stick to one account, since this has nothing to offer me. (And forget skills like recon 5, etc etc...)
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Kerfira
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Posted - 2008.10.14 23:23:00 -
[2832]
Originally by: CCP t0rfifrans Many would hope that in light of this we will decide not to cancel ghost training and keep it active as an option but weære cannot to do that. EVE is already one-of-a-kind in allowing players to progress their characters through offline skill training. We stand by our policy that if you want your character to progress in EVE, you should pay the subscription fee. The fact that so many people have been able to do so for several years was our own oversight. We know this change, and our misstep in telling you about it, has created some discontent and we hope that over time we can prove our committment to make EVE better than ever for you will be evident as you enjoy the fruits of our labor.
If you keep this attitude and design your game like you think it should be and not as whiners on the forum think it should be (for their own personal gain, not what is good for the game), then EVE most likely have a great future.
Nothing destroys a game as fast as when selfish players looking only at their own little world gets to determine how the game should play.
Good going, CCP!
Originally by: CCP Wrangler EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
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Lobster Man
Metafarmers
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Posted - 2008.10.14 23:23:00 -
[2833]
Originally by: CCP t0rfifrans The bug that became a feature
On Monday, we released news that we are disabling äGhost Trainingô, the ability to train characters on inactive accounts. This resulted in strong reactions from the community as many people were routinely making use of it. We explained the matter in more detail and pointed out that this had been a bug in the original game code. Those of us who were involved in the process of making the decision and communicating it to the community did not realize this bug had been so accepted as a feature that it was listed as such in our own documentation on our own website.
How can we not know whatæs in our own documentation? Well, to be frank, it was a case of insufficient communication on our part between various teams û a regrettable mistake and hard lesson to learn at the expense of the trust youæve placed in us. Thereæs no way to spin it and we wonæt add insult to injury by trying to do so. It was a mistake on our part and for that we sincerely and humbly apologize.
Many would hope that in light of this we will decide not to cancel ghost training and keep it active as an option but weære cannot to do that. EVE is already one-of-a-kind in allowing players to progress their characters through offline skill training. We stand by our policy that if you want your character to progress in EVE, you should pay the subscription fee. The fact that so many people have been able to do so for several years was our own oversight. We know this change, and our misstep in telling you about it, has created some discontent and we hope that over time we can prove our committment to make EVE better than ever for you will be evident as you enjoy the fruits of our labor.
Torfi
While we may not all be happy about this, I really don't think we have anything to complain to CCP about. This has been exploited for as long as I've been playing and I can't say I haven't taken advantage of it myself in the past. Just be glad all you people using it a lot aren't going to be banned
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x psy
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Posted - 2008.10.14 23:23:00 -
[2834]
Edited by: x psy on 14/10/2008 23:29:55
Originally by: CCP t0rfifrans
The bug that became a feature
It's more a feature that became a bug.
Originally by: CCP t0rfifrans
EVE is already one-of-a-kind in allowing players to progress their characters through offline skill training.
lol to this.
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jam6549
Shadow Incursion Shadows Incursion
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Posted - 2008.10.14 23:24:00 -
[2835]
Originally by: CCP t0rfifrans The bug that became a feature
On Monday, we released news that we are disabling äGhost Trainingô, the ability to train characters on inactive accounts. This resulted in strong reactions from the community as many people were routinely making use of it. We explained the matter in more detail and pointed out that this had been a bug in the original game code. Those of us who were involved in the process of making the decision and communicating it to the community did not realize this bug had been so accepted as a feature that it was listed as such in our own documentation on our own website.
How can we not know whatæs in our own documentation? Well, to be frank, it was a case of insufficient communication on our part between various teams û a regrettable mistake and hard lesson to learn at the expense of the trust youæve placed in us. Thereæs no way to spin it and we wonæt add insult to injury by trying to do so. It was a mistake on our part and for that we sincerely and humbly apologize.
Many would hope that in light of this we will decide not to cancel ghost training and keep it active as an option but weære cannot to do that. EVE is already one-of-a-kind in allowing players to progress their characters through offline skill training. We stand by our policy that if you want your character to progress in EVE, you should pay the subscription fee. The fact that so many people have been able to do so for several years was our own oversight. We know this change, and our misstep in telling you about it, has created some discontent and we hope that over time we can prove our committment to make EVE better than ever for you will be evident as you enjoy the fruits of our labor.
Torfi
My god, CCP really does hire fantastic people! Say goodbye to ~half your playerbase, 'cos you just shot yourself in the foot
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Tolp
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Posted - 2008.10.14 23:24:00 -
[2836]
Originally by: CCP t0rfifrans The bug that became a feature
On Monday, we released news that we are disabling äGhost Trainingô, the ability to train characters on inactive accounts. This resulted in strong reactions from the community as many people were routinely making use of it. We explained the matter in more detail and pointed out that this had been a bug in the original game code. Those of us who were involved in the process of making the decision and communicating it to the community did not realize this bug had been so accepted as a feature that it was listed as such in our own documentation on our own website.
How can we not know whatæs in our own documentation? Well, to be frank, it was a case of insufficient communication on our part between various teams û a regrettable mistake and hard lesson to learn at the expense of the trust youæve placed in us. Thereæs no way to spin it and we wonæt add insult to injury by trying to do so. It was a mistake on our part and for that we sincerely and humbly apologize.
Many would hope that in light of this we will decide not to cancel ghost training and keep it active as an option but weære cannot to do that. EVE is already one-of-a-kind in allowing players to progress their characters through offline skill training. We stand by our policy that if you want your character to progress in EVE, you should pay the subscription fee. The fact that so many people have been able to do so for several years was our own oversight. We know this change, and our misstep in telling you about it, has created some discontent and we hope that over time we can prove our committment to make EVE better than ever for you will be evident as you enjoy the fruits of our labor.
Torfi
Thanks for being frank about it.
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Wet Ferret
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Posted - 2008.10.14 23:24:00 -
[2837]
Originally by: Onimae Kusa <sigh> This is sad. I've loved eve since I first started playing a little over 4 years ago. Still love it. But this is beyond ridiculous. I've rarely conciously chosen to use ghost training, them getting rid of it doesn't really bug me too much. I've left eve for breaks multiple times. Sometimes it was cuz of being burned out, sometimes something they did ****ed me off, but most of the time I didn't resub when whatever skill was on was finished, I continued doing w/e I was doing until I happened to get the eve itch again. I've probably lost 20-30 million sp simply because I was burned out. That doesn't bug me and the change coming doesn't bug me either. It's all in the way it was handled. I've never seen this massive amount of outcry over a change this quick. It speaks volumes. I remember a time when dev interaction was very commonplace. Those were better times. I'm afraid the game will never go back to those times. That feeling of a close knit community is gone. So am I.
RIP EVE
This is exactly how I feel.
I've "ghost trained" once a few years back, not even really intentionally. My account lapsed early than I expected and I decided to take a break, not even sure what I was training at the time. This is my only account and aside from that one time it's been active for almost the entirety of four years. Does this change affect me? No, not hardly.
But I've been watching CCP turn into crap, and I don't like it one bit. CCP behaving differently than every other shitty game company is what made them stand out and part of what made EVE a great game. The community was another part, that has already gone to crap... intelligent players with high expectations steadily replaced with the type of idiots who defend changes like this with no good reason and statements like "don't like it then quit". Good old WoW playerbase attitude right there.
Terrible... But, yeah. These forums seriously need some indicator that the post has ended and the sig has started.
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SkwisgaarSkwigelf
C.R.M Productions
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Posted - 2008.10.14 23:25:00 -
[2838]
I watched these threads to see when and what CCP would do. Their actions and execution are unacceptable to me. While I will not stop playing the game, I am ceasing training on my alts and moving them onto my main account. And I have barely ghosttrained at all thus far.
-2 accounts CCP.
With that, I no longer watch this thread.
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NereSky
Gallente Trinity Nova Trinity Nova Alliance
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Posted - 2008.10.14 23:25:00 -
[2839]
Originally by: CCP t0rfifrans The bug that became a feature
On Monday, we released news that we are disabling äGhost Trainingô, the ability to train characters on inactive accounts. This resulted in strong reactions from the community as many people were routinely making use of it. We explained the matter in more detail and pointed out that this had been a bug in the original game code. Those of us who were involved in the process of making the decision and communicating it to the community did not realize this bug had been so accepted as a feature that it was listed as such in our own documentation on our own website.
How can we not know whatæs in our own documentation? Well, to be frank, it was a case of insufficient communication on our part between various teams û a regrettable mistake and hard lesson to learn at the expense of the trust youæve placed in us. Thereæs no way to spin it and we wonæt add insult to injury by trying to do so. It was a mistake on our part and for that we sincerely and humbly apologize.
Many would hope that in light of this we will decide not to cancel ghost training and keep it active as an option but weære cannot to do that. EVE is already one-of-a-kind in allowing players to progress their characters through offline skill training. We stand by our policy that if you want your character to progress in EVE, you should pay the subscription fee. The fact that so many people have been able to do so for several years was our own oversight. We know this change, and our misstep in telling you about it, has created some discontent and we hope that over time we can prove our committment to make EVE better than ever for you will be evident as you enjoy the fruits of our labor.
Torfi
Your reasoning is sound but the damage you have done and 'continue' to do is beyond repair while this ghost training never affected me personnally i can see why people are upset/angry its just another 'you dont care nerf'
How many teeth do you want to proverbially kick in before you get the message 'do something with your customer service' i cannot believe you waited this long to post a reply
Bring back the days when CCP cared about its player base
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Ishbuanium
Black Skull Legion Veneratio Venator Alliance
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Posted - 2008.10.14 23:26:00 -
[2840]
Originally by: Aliedora
Originally by: younub
Originally by: Shard Merchant To recap..
- Release a short news bit regarding widespread and significant change that would occur in 48 hours.
- Buried with other news minutes later.
- 50 pages of posting follow, discussing the legitimacy of this change as per the reasons given.
- Locked 50 pages of posts because a blog was posted, that repeats the same message.
- Dev blog mentions the 'business side' of this move, which the news post omitted.
- 70 pages of new postings follow.
- Thread disappears from Information Portal. Players find it and continue posting.
- Player guide gets edited to remove controversial remarks.
Without discussing the removal of "ghost training" specifically, what we have here is an attempt to pull a fast one on the players. It is easily the biggest attempted ninja nerf in the history of this game. Your customers deserve:
- More than two days of warning, so they can find out about the changes and plan accordingly
- More visible warning, like the login screen MOTD
- More transparency and honesty about the reasons by discussing all the reasons
Hard decisions are always hard, but how you handle them determines if you gain or lose respect. The player is going to feel screwed by changes that affect them poorly, and this is the equivalent of adding insult to injury.
A lot of people are willing to defend this company regardless of what they do (4S name change, t20 scandal), but this community was built on a common respect for the makers of this game even if they didn't always agree. That was eons ago.
You might not see a dip in subscriber counts, but you'll see an increase in player churn that requires more marketing money to support. You not only lose massive amounts of free word of mouth advertising, but scare away players with the amount of ex-EVE types that leave disgruntled at something you did.
quoting this becouse im down
QFT
QFT
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Loyal Servant
Caldari PURE Legion Pure.
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Posted - 2008.10.14 23:27:00 -
[2841]
Edited by: Loyal Servant on 14/10/2008 23:27:11
Originally by: CCP t0rfifrans The bug that became a feature
On Monday, we released news that we are disabling äGhost Trainingô, the ability to train characters on inactive accounts. This resulted in strong reactions from the community as many people were routinely making use of it. We explained the matter in more detail and pointed out that this had been a bug in the original game code. Those of us who were involved in the process of making the decision and communicating it to the community did not realize this bug had been so accepted as a feature that it was listed as such in our own documentation on our own website.
How can we not know whatæs in our own documentation? Well, to be frank, it was a case of insufficient communication on our part between various teams û a regrettable mistake and hard lesson to learn at the expense of the trust youæve placed in us. Thereæs no way to spin it and we wonæt add insult to injury by trying to do so. It was a mistake on our part and for that we sincerely and humbly apologize.
Many would hope that in light of this we will decide not to cancel ghost training and keep it active as an option but weære cannot to do that. EVE is already one-of-a-kind in allowing players to progress their characters through offline skill training. We stand by our policy that if you want your character to progress in EVE, you should pay the subscription fee. The fact that so many people have been able to do so for several years was our own oversight. We know this change, and our misstep in telling you about it, has created some discontent and we hope that over time we can prove our committment to make EVE better than ever for you will be evident as you enjoy the fruits of our labor.
Torfi
Trust you guys? Like t20? Like Kugutsumen getting banned for exposing that too? Like the constant censorship on these forums that prove you guys suck at lying?
Meh, no bother. Might not see me around much longer either.
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x psy
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 23:27:00 -
[2842]
Originally by: NereSky
Bring back the days when CCP cared about its player base
this +1
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Fullmetal Jackass
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 23:28:00 -
[2843]
Way to re-enforce the greedy image. As if the "power of two" wasn't bad enough. "I know, lets get everyone hooked on two accounts so we can double our income". "Real life income should have no effect on game play", my ass. I still have one account because I can't afford 2 or 3. Some of us have families to support.
The pace of the game is so slow who cares if everyone is playing all the time. Maybe you should have fixed multi accounting and dual boxing before it became a problem, rather then encouraging it.
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Zinnn
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Posted - 2008.10.14 23:28:00 -
[2844]
Originally by: CCP t0rfifrans The bug that became a feature
On Monday, we released news that we are disabling äGhost Trainingô, the ability to train characters on inactive accounts. This resulted in strong reactions from the community as many people were routinely making use of it. We explained the matter in more detail and pointed out that this had been a bug in the original game code. Those of us who were involved in the process of making the decision and communicating it to the community did not realize this bug had been so accepted as a feature that it was listed as such in our own documentation on our own website.
How can we not know whatæs in our own documentation? Well, to be frank, it was a case of insufficient communication on our part between various teams û a regrettable mistake and hard lesson to learn at the expense of the trust youæve placed in us. Thereæs no way to spin it and we wonæt add insult to injury by trying to do so. It was a mistake on our part and for that we sincerely and humbly apologize.
Many would hope that in light of this we will decide not to cancel ghost training and keep it active as an option but weære cannot to do that. EVE is already one-of-a-kind in allowing players to progress their characters through offline skill training. We stand by our policy that if you want your character to progress in EVE, you should pay the subscription fee. The fact that so many people have been able to do so for several years was our own oversight. We know this change, and our misstep in telling you about it, has created some discontent and we hope that over time we can prove our committment to make EVE better than ever for you will be evident as you enjoy the fruits of our labor.
Torfi
I appreciate you saying something. I still think this will hurt your pocketbook more. I know I'm upset and I don't even use this "unintended feature". People are willing to quit over this. Please keep us updated as to how many have actually quit. A seperate sticky thread or something would be great. Seriously. I've already heard probably hundreds of people saying they're quitting. Let us know.
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Tarron Sarek
Gallente Biotronics Inc. Alternative Realities
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Posted - 2008.10.14 23:29:00 -
[2845]
Edited by: Tarron Sarek on 14/10/2008 23:36:01
Originally by: CCP t0rfifrans The bug that became a feature
On Monday, we released news that we are disabling äGhost Trainingô, (..) We know this change, and our misstep in telling you about it, has created some discontent and we hope that over time we can prove our committment to make EVE better than ever for you will be evident as you enjoy the fruits of our labor.
Torfi
This posting made sense and, at least by me, is highly appreciated.
However, please be cautious in your next steps and try to communicate in a more detailed and honest way. Realise and try to focus on your past&present strenghts as a unique game company. Being special is what made EVE stand out. Try to keep that up.
Please CCP, don't pull a SOE/NGE on us anytime soon.
edit: I still think this change is suboptimal. All possible good or bad intentions aside, you effectively devalue your service and increase costs for your customers. Without 'compensation' of any kind (definite good news/changes) it's rather a loss than a gain. Not necessarily a financial one, but sympathy, trust and loyalty should never be underestimated, in the long run.
___________________________________
Balance is power, guard hide it well
"Ceterum censeo Polycarbonem esse delendam" |
Siona Windweaver
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Posted - 2008.10.14 23:30:00 -
[2846]
Originally by: CCP t0rfifrans The bug that became a feature
On Monday, we released news that we are disabling äGhost Trainingô, the ability to train characters on inactive accounts. This resulted in strong reactions from the community as many people were routinely making use of it. We explained the matter in more detail and pointed out that this had been a bug in the original game code. Those of us who were involved in the process of making the decision and communicating it to the community did not realize this bug had been so accepted as a feature that it was listed as such in our own documentation on our own website.
How can we not know whatæs in our own documentation? Well, to be frank, it was a case of insufficient communication on our part between various teams û a regrettable mistake and hard lesson to learn at the expense of the trust youæve placed in us. Thereæs no way to spin it and we wonæt add insult to injury by trying to do so. It was a mistake on our part and for that we sincerely and humbly apologize.
Many would hope that in light of this we will decide not to cancel ghost training and keep it active as an option but weære cannot to do that. EVE is already one-of-a-kind in allowing players to progress their characters through offline skill training. We stand by our policy that if you want your character to progress in EVE, you should pay the subscription fee. The fact that so many people have been able to do so for several years was our own oversight. We know this change, and our misstep in telling you about it, has created some discontent and we hope that over time we can prove our committment to make EVE better than ever for you will be evident as you enjoy the fruits of our labor.
Torfi
So you apologized only when you were convinced your Ninjah tactics wasn't going to work? It takes 140+ pages to get an apologize from you guys?
Tbh, this is even worse then trying to stealth nerf something.
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James Marshalll
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.10.14 23:30:00 -
[2847]
Originally by: CCP t0rfifrans The bug that became a feature
On Monday, we released news that we are disabling äGhost Trainingô, the ability to train characters on inactive accounts. This resulted in strong reactions from the community as many people were routinely making use of it. We explained the matter in more detail and pointed out that this had been a bug in the original game code. Those of us who were involved in the process of making the decision and communicating it to the community did not realize this bug had been so accepted as a feature that it was listed as such in our own documentation on our own website.
How can we not know whatæs in our own documentation? Well, to be frank, it was a case of insufficient communication on our part between various teams û a regrettable mistake and hard lesson to learn at the expense of the trust youæve placed in us. Thereæs no way to spin it and we wonæt add insult to injury by trying to do so. It was a mistake on our part and for that we sincerely and humbly apologize.
Many would hope that in light of this we will decide not to cancel ghost training and keep it active as an option but weære cannot to do that. EVE is already one-of-a-kind in allowing players to progress their characters through offline skill training. We stand by our policy that if you want your character to progress in EVE, you should pay the subscription fee. The fact that so many people have been able to do so for several years was our own oversight. We know this change, and our misstep in telling you about it, has created some discontent and we hope that over time we can prove our committment to make EVE better than ever for you will be evident as you enjoy the fruits of our labor.
Torfi
No offense Mr. Torfi, but we know all too well you have no idea what your underlings do.
From GM's giving away T2 bpo's to corp mates, to GM's flying ships that can change the outcome of a fight, to GM's giving back corp mates losses in large battles, while not giving back ships to other members of the fight, the GTC fiasco to this. You will learn very soon, as did Sony when I worked there that your user base is fickle, and when you on a continual basis do things like this pretty soon they will drop their loyalty no matter how much they love your game.
The economy is in shambles right now, don't underestimate the impact of a low economy on how your customers react in situations like this. I have loved this game for a long time, but there comes a point where I have to say enough is enough. Waiting to make this announcement until after you reaped in the benefits of the take two promotion is on par with what SoE did with SWG and the Trials of Obi-one Promotion.
As a person who was involved in many ways with that situation I can tell you that when the lawyers came a knocking about bait and switch, SoE was forced to give people their money back for the expansion. They knew deep down, just like you know deep down it was a slimy move and the timing was on purpose. I hope for you that you are right and that in a few months people will forget, I mean they always forget right?
Ask the development team for SWG about that. I can pm you some emails if you like.
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Velda Chulai
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Posted - 2008.10.14 23:31:00 -
[2848]
Edited by: Velda Chulai on 14/10/2008 23:33:23
Originally by: CCP t0rfifrans The bug that became a feature
On Monday, we released news that we are disabling äGhost Trainingô, the ability to train characters on inactive accounts. This resulted in strong reactions from the community as many people were routinely making use of it. We explained the matter in more detail and pointed out that this had been a bug in the original game code. Those of us who were involved in the process of making the decision and communicating it to the community did not realize this bug had been so accepted as a feature that it was listed as such in our own documentation on our own website.
How can we not know whatæs in our own documentation? Well, to be frank, it was a case of insufficient communication on our part between various teams û a regrettable mistake and hard lesson to learn at the expense of the trust youæve placed in us. Thereæs no way to spin it and we wonæt add insult to injury by trying to do so. It was a mistake on our part and for that we sincerely and humbly apologize.
Many would hope that in light of this we will decide not to cancel ghost training and keep it active as an option but weære cannot to do that. EVE is already one-of-a-kind in allowing players to progress their characters through offline skill training. We stand by our policy that if you want your character to progress in EVE, you should pay the subscription fee. The fact that so many people have been able to do so for several years was our own oversight. We know this change, and our misstep in telling you about it, has created some discontent and we hope that over time we can prove our committment to make EVE better than ever for you will be evident as you enjoy the fruits of our labor.
Torfi
You've mis-stepped twice regarding this. CCP has plead and preached ignorance far too many times.
With the recent heaprs that we've been fed in the past regarding timecodes, developer drama, and now this, I'm done with CCP. Should a Mage: The Awakening or a World of Darkness MMO be released, I won't subscribe to that either.
The only thing that will keep me playing up to my cancellation date will be the obligations and promises I've made to my other buddies who will continue to shovel money into your furnace, but once my days are done, I'm out.
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ISIAM
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Posted - 2008.10.14 23:33:00 -
[2849]
The bug that became a feature
On Monday, we released news that we are disabling äGhost Trainingô, the ability to train characters on inactive accounts. This resulted in strong reactions from the community as many people were routinely making use of it. We explained the matter in more detail and pointed out that this had been a bug in the original game code. Those of us who were involved in the process of making the decision and communicating it to the community did not realize this bug had been so accepted as a feature that it was listed as such in our own documentation on our own website.
How can we not know whatæs in our own documentation? Well, to be frank, it was a case of insufficient communication on our part between various teams û a regrettable mistake and hard lesson to learn at the expense of the trust youæve placed in us. Thereæs no way to spin it and we wonæt add insult to injury by trying to do so. It was a mistake on our part and for that we sincerely and humbly apologize.
Many would hope that in light of this we will decide not to cancel ghost training and keep it active as an option but weære cannot to do that. EVE is already one-of-a-kind in allowing players to progress their characters through offline skill training. We stand by our policy that if you want your character to progress in EVE, you should pay the subscription fee. The fact that so many people have been able to do so for several years was our own oversight. We know this change, and our misstep in telling you about it, has created some discontent and we hope that over time we can prove our committment to make EVE better than ever for you will be evident as you enjoy the fruits of our labor.
Torfi
Okey, anyone want to take a bet that this will kill EVE and C.C.P.?
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fuxinos
Caldari Guys 0f Sarcasm
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Posted - 2008.10.14 23:34:00 -
[2850]
Edited by: fuxinos on 14/10/2008 23:39:56 from feature to unintended feature, and now its a bug.
seriously, if thats a joke, its so bad it already hurts again. i mean, if u have a option to disable/enable it, it surley cant be a bug...
ive seen atleast one iview, were a dev explained what eve is about and he cleary said, that training with inactive account is a feature. infact, start training a long skill shot before the account goes inactie, is pretty common, and no one from ccp ever complained or said that its unintended, not in any way. if some other manages it to train skills without ever subscribing their accounts, then fix it, but instead you take the easy and clearly stupid way.
its not true what u stated in the explanation and its probably the lamest excuse in the history of ccp for changing something -.-'
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Zinnn
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Posted - 2008.10.14 23:34:00 -
[2851]
Originally by: CCP t0rfifrans
The fact that so many people have been able to do so for several years was our own oversight.
Torfi
Two things. First off, how long were you working on this? Seriously and it took you this long?
Secondly, the customer is always right. If you think that that old addage is false, then you're as bad as bestbuy and futureshop in the United States and Canada. They shortchange people for what seems to be an insignificant amount, and causes a huge host of bad publicity - something that ultimately hurts more than it may seem to help you. If you don't believe me, that's ok. Time will prove my point.
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SmokeyJones
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Posted - 2008.10.14 23:36:00 -
[2852]
Are you guys ever thought about limit the Ghost Training instead of disable it?
Most of all ghost trainners, do it for 1 month or so.
What about limit the ghost training to this time?
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Admrl Cain
Caldari CaldaCorp Quantum Star Alliance
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Posted - 2008.10.14 23:37:00 -
[2853]
I find it amusing how like modern government, the GMs and DEVs have pre-made statements which they say over and over as our lovely Dev just did here... he posted it TWICE. ----------------------------------------
Admiral Cain. Yep, that's right.. mmhmmm |
10of10
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Posted - 2008.10.14 23:38:00 -
[2854]
Your betting people are so addicted to eve that they can't quit.......... I bet that turns out to be a bad bet... |
Lord Fitz
Project Amargosa
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Posted - 2008.10.14 23:40:00 -
[2855]
See, the thing about bugs, the defining measure of what a bug is, is that either the developers don't know about it, or haven't been able to fix it.
Given that developers knew about it, and put it in the guide AND it was 'fixed' for Serenity. This means that it doesn't satisfy either of those two. It is a change which was deliberately chosen to not be implemented years ago, and thus NOT a bug.
That you continue to insult our intelligence with this line is worse than the change itself.
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CIA1
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Posted - 2008.10.14 23:40:00 -
[2856]
Originally by: 10of10 Your betting people are so addicted to eve that they can't quit.......... I bet that turns out to be a bad bet...
Shownuf, that's right!!!
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LegendaryFrog
Caldari GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.10.14 23:40:00 -
[2857]
Here is what I don't understand... what financial gain does ccp expect from this?
They seem to be assuming that because people with 2 or 3 accounts that spend most of the time ghost-training can no longer run these accounts this way, those people will suddenly decide to pay $15 a month for the privilege. This is a HUGE leap in their logic, as by far the more common result will be that these accounts simply get canceled. While it is true that ccp doesn't make as much money on accounts run like this (say $60 a year or so at minimum) that money is still better then getting no money at all, which will be the result of these accounts being canceled.
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ATARI BABY
Lords Of Guile
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Posted - 2008.10.14 23:42:00 -
[2858]
opening threads... closing threads... somehow invisible threads....
getting worse on every page.
LIE |
Wizzkidy
G00DFELLAS
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Posted - 2008.10.14 23:45:00 -
[2859]
Originally by: Zinnn I appreciate you saying something. I still think this will hurt your pocketbook more. I know I'm upset and I don't even use this "unintended feature". People are willing to quit over this. Please keep us updated as to how many have actually quit. A seperate sticky thread or something would be great. Seriously. I've already heard probably hundreds of people saying they're quitting. Let us know.
When has CCP EVER given us ANY info on how many people have quit eve, never in my 4 years has this happened. I for one have used ghost training in the passed, when maybe i'm on holiday or taking a break and I either forget to reactivate my account or dont have time. This is a REALLY STUPID thing for CCP to do and I would of thought they would of been happy with the unique feature that makes EVE stand out even more.
This is a money grabbing excercise guys it has nothing more then for money grabbing, just the like GTC change. I am getting to the end of my EVE life at this rate, recently with all the stupid stupid changes and non listening to the playerbase - I really have had it up to my eye balls.
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Tobias Lee
UK Corp Mostly Harmless
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Posted - 2008.10.14 23:45:00 -
[2860]
Finally A reponse from ccp, fair enough your man enough to admit your mistakes but the problem with canceling the Ghost training is it simply that players with multiple accounts will cancel alt accounts either because they feel they have already been messed about or simply because they cannot afford to pay.
I've no doubt in my mind that this will result in lost revenue for CCP and quite simply this could not come at a worse time with the world wide credit crunch.
Thanks CCP, wish you had told me this before I created a 2nd account and paid for a month and brought a gtc and a nice set of +4 implants. With only 2m current sp I cant even justify selling the character and my mains account is full with 3 characters.
With the recent hike in GTC and game subs I cannot afford to run two accounts I cant even ghost the alt over xmas either.
Like many other people I will be running just 1 account and after playing for 5 years I hope that this announcement of yours does not ruin whats left of a good game.
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AlphaViscera
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Posted - 2008.10.14 23:45:00 -
[2861]
Edited by: AlphaViscera on 14/10/2008 23:45:59 HAHA
Thats the biggest load of crap I've ever read, nice work CCP way to push your own userbase out the door
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Guillame Herschel
Gallente Buffalo Soldiers
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Posted - 2008.10.14 23:46:00 -
[2862]
Originally by: Kuangdianbai could this be due to the fact iceland economy is in shambles and ccp want a cash infusion.
CCP should become a bank. Then they can get cash infusions from taxpayers.
"Too big to fail." LOL
-- The Theorem Theorem: If If, Then Then --
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Carsidava
Ars ex Discordia GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.10.14 23:46:00 -
[2863]
Originally by: CCP t0rfifrans The bug that became a feature
On Monday, we released news that we are disabling äGhost Trainingô, the ability to train characters on inactive accounts. This resulted in strong reactions from the community as many people were routinely making use of it. We explained the matter in more detail and pointed out that this had been a bug in the original game code. Those of us who were involved in the process of making the decision and communicating it to the community did not realize this bug had been so accepted as a feature that it was listed as such in our own documentation on our own website.
How can we not know whatæs in our own documentation? Well, to be frank, it was a case of insufficient communication on our part between various teams û a regrettable mistake and hard lesson to learn at the expense of the trust youæve placed in us. Thereæs no way to spin it and we wonæt add insult to injury by trying to do so. It was a mistake on our part and for that we sincerely and humbly apologize.
Many would hope that in light of this we will decide not to cancel ghost training and keep it active as an option but weære cannot to do that. EVE is already one-of-a-kind in allowing players to progress their characters through offline skill training. We stand by our policy that if you want your character to progress in EVE, you should pay the subscription fee. The fact that so many people have been able to do so for several years was our own oversight. We know this change, and our misstep in telling you about it, has created some discontent and we hope that over time we can prove our committment to make EVE better than ever for you will be evident as you enjoy the fruits of our labor.
Torfi
You didn't answer any of the concerns many players had. Please find someone who works at CCP who knows what goes on in the game. Clearly you're a mouthpiece.
Here's my post again, which is still amazingly relevant.
Nope, sorry. This doesn't wash.
If you disable skill training for inactive accounts, why aren't you also disabling market orders from inactive accounts? Why aren't you also disabling RP accumulation from inactive accounts? Why aren't you disabling dividend payouts to inactive accounts?
Why are only skill points being hit?
Sorry CCP, this is an entirely unsatisfactory answer. |
Shmak DatAsh
Di-Tron Heavy Industries Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2008.10.14 23:47:00 -
[2864]
23k people online when normally at this time theres app 40k.
Great job CCP!!!!
/end sarcasm
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ArmyOfMe
Developmental Neogenics Amalgamated
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Posted - 2008.10.14 23:47:00 -
[2865]
dont get me wrong, i agree with this change, and imo you should also take away rp gains and market orders from inactive accounts.
what i dont agree on, it the way that ccp has started to treat its customers over the last year or so, with changes a large portion of the game disagree on.
like the once proposed carrier nerf(you thankfully turned around on that one after a shitstorm of ppl said they would quit the game)
the nano changes that a very large portion of the game says they dont want(and yet you still dont post any replies to threads containing valid arguments, and worries about those changes)
and now this change.
and the list is even longer with broken promises etc etc.
im sorry to say, but you ccp are loosing your touch with the community and its no wonder that a lot of people are asking to get the old devs back.
Originally by: deadmaus
Because by the time we had calmed Plague down after he heard BoB were back in the vicinity it was too late to do anything |
Staberind
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Posted - 2008.10.14 23:49:00 -
[2866]
Um, sooo, how will you implement the leveling of this effect? are some 5 year old players suddenly going to have to retrain months of skills? watching this, before i cancel my other account, and maybe this one, will almost be worth it, i'll also be watching ebay closely.
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Sky Marshal
State Protectorate
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Posted - 2008.10.14 23:50:00 -
[2867]
Edited by: Sky Marshal on 14/10/2008 23:51:43
Originally by: Kerfira If you keep this attitude and design your game like you think it should be and not as whiners on the forum think it should be (for their own personal gain, not what is good for the game), then EVE most likely have a great future.
Nothing destroys a game as fast as when selfish players looking only at their own little world gets to determine how the game should play.
Good going, CCP!
Hum... You don't know about the NGE experience (patch for Star Wars Galaxies) I guess ?
It was the typical case of a company who make some changes despite the community appreciation.
This game now lose gradually more and more players since the patch was activated in November 2005 : Linkage
Maybe "Whiners" are annoying, maybe whiners only think to their personal interest, but maybe whiners are right...
And actually, CCP seems want to do the same thing than SWG.
You can be blind if you want, but careful, same if EvE is great, everything can happen, same worse things...
Be more pragmatic.
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EnslaverOfMinmatar
Yarsk Hunters DeaDSpace Coalition
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Posted - 2008.10.14 23:52:00 -
[2868]
Originally by: Shmak DatAsh 23k people online when normally at this time theres app 40k.
Great job CCP!!!!
/end sarcasm
still, logged in after like 7 attempts
Skills continue training even if you are logged off or if your account is inactive (in the second scenario you can't change skill tr |
Kazuma Saruwatari
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.10.14 23:54:00 -
[2869]
Give us a long-demanded skill queue (1 skill deep)
Remove RP accumulation from inactive accounts
Remove market orders from inactive accounts
Remove the ability to datacore-farm from inactive accounts
Remove any form of ingame advantage when the account goes inactive
If ghost training goes, I want my money's worth in that everyone else gets only what they pay for, and that includes a replacement for ghost training (skill queue) and removal of all other advantages whilst inactive. -
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Lemonx
Sour Lemons
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Posted - 2008.10.14 23:54:00 -
[2870]
Lies lies and damn lies.
CCP credibility is non-existant, the reasons for removing this feature is clearly pure bullshit.
**** you very much CCP! |
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Grimnir
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Posted - 2008.10.14 23:55:00 -
[2871]
Originally by: Shmak DatAsh 23k people online when normally at this time theres app 40k.
Great job CCP!!!!
/end sarcasm
At this time of night 22k is normal, don't be so tabloid!
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Soldur
Slacker Industries
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Posted - 2008.10.14 23:56:00 -
[2872]
Edited by: Soldur on 14/10/2008 23:58:52
Originally by: CCP t0rfifrans The bug that became a feature
We explained the matter in more detail and pointed out that this had been a bug in the original game code. Those of us who were involved in the process of making the decision and communicating it to the community did not realize this bug had been so accepted as a feature that it was listed as such in our own documentation on our own website.
so basically you guys still cant seem to write code properly after all these years....is a shame really oh and you think by throwing some other part of ccp under the bus will make us think everything is ok ..yea try again you devs are all the same useless..from the "our logs dont indicate anything" to loook over there it was their fault you never seem to be able to answer a question coherently.
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Grimnir
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Posted - 2008.10.14 23:57:00 -
[2873]
Originally by: ArmyOfMe
the nano changes that a very large portion of the game says they dont want(and yet you still dont post any replies to threads containing valid arguments, and worries about those changes)
So the whole live dev-blog thing with the devs answering peoples questions about the speed nerfs on-air last week totally passed you by?
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AdmiralSexyPants
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.10.14 23:58:00 -
[2874]
I know I posted earlier in this thread, but I wanted to clarify a few thoughts since this has been on my mind quite a bit since yesterday.
Thank you CCP.
Eve was my first MMO and likely my last. I joined because of GoonFleet and stayed because of them. I kept paying for Eve to be a part of that community and trained multiple characters to help GoonFleet and myself, since the game mechanics pretty much demand that you have alts. So for almost 3 years now, IÆve been paying for anywhere between 4-6 accounts with timecards, letting my accounts expire on long skills, since that was one of the best features of Eve, one of the features that separated it from every other MMO out there. I didnÆt have to grind for skills, I could advance without worrying about paying for it. When I ran low on money, I knew I could walk away and when I came back, my characters would be more skilled and able.
But for most of that time, I was just training. I used to run missions, but they became tedious. I mined, but that was boring. Gatecamps when I did actually PVP were just as bad usually. But I kept giving my hard earned money just incase I decided that I wanted to come back, and a month or so ago, I decided to come back and actually fly and fight with my friends. Now CCP has taken away my ability to walk away and still allow my characters to become better.
Again, thank you.
IÆve called Eve one of my few addictions, and thanks to this, I feel I can walk away. IÆve seen bugs become features, well known and used methods to make gaming less tedious become ôunintended consequences,ö and now features and selling points are bugs.
A few months ago, I bought a stack of timecards, and I still have quite a few left, so I can waste the isk I have left, reactivate an account if I feel like it, and just have fun and not worry about the future of my characters. At least I donÆt have to worry about paying for Eve anymore.
Thank You. I am free now.
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10of10
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 23:59:00 -
[2875]
Originally by: Carsidava
Originally by: CCP t0rfifrans The bug that became a feature
On Monday, we released news that we are disabling äGhost Trainingô, the ability to train characters on inactive accounts. This resulted in strong reactions from the community as many people were routinely making use of it. We explained the matter in more detail and pointed out that this had been a bug in the original game code. Those of us who were involved in the process of making the decision and communicating it to the community did not realize this bug had been so accepted as a feature that it was listed as such in our own documentation on our own website.
How can we not know whatæs in our own documentation? Well, to be frank, it was a case of insufficient communication on our part between various teams û a regrettable mistake and hard lesson to learn at the expense of the trust youæve placed in us. Thereæs no way to spin it and we wonæt add insult to injury by trying to do so. It was a mistake on our part and for that we sincerely and humbly apologize.
Many would hope that in light of this we will decide not to cancel ghost training and keep it active as an option but weære cannot to do that. EVE is already one-of-a-kind in allowing players to progress their characters through offline skill training. We stand by our policy that if you want your character to progress in EVE, you should pay the subscription fee. The fact that so many people have been able to do so for several years was our own oversight. We know this change, and our misstep in telling you about it, has created some discontent and we hope that over time we can prove our committment to make EVE better than ever for you will be evident as you enjoy the fruits of our labor.
Torfi
You didn't answer any of the concerns many players had. Please find someone who works at CCP who knows what goes on in the game. Clearly you're a mouthpiece.
Here's my post again, which is still amazingly relevant.
Nope, sorry. This doesn't wash.
Sorry CCP, this is an entirely unsatisfactory answer.
Check this out you can't highlite and cut and past this part of of his post:
If you disable skill training for inactive accounts, why aren't you also disabling market orders from inactive accounts? Why aren't you also disabling RP accumulation from inactive accounts? Why aren't you disabling dividend payouts to inactive accounts?
Why are only skill points being hit?
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Daelin Blackleaf
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 00:01:00 -
[2876]
Originally by: CCP t0rfifrans The bug that became a feature
On Monday, we released news that we are disabling äGhost Trainingô, the ability to train characters on inactive accounts. This resulted in strong reactions from the community as many people were routinely making use of it. We explained the matter in more detail and pointed out that this had been a bug in the original game code. Those of us who were involved in the process of making the decision and communicating it to the community did not realize this bug had been so accepted as a feature that it was listed as such in our own documentation on our own website.
How can we not know whatæs in our own documentation? Well, to be frank, it was a case of insufficient communication on our part between various teams û a regrettable mistake and hard lesson to learn at the expense of the trust youæve placed in us. Thereæs no way to spin it and we wonæt add insult to injury by trying to do so. It was a mistake on our part and for that we sincerely and humbly apologize.
Many would hope that in light of this we will decide not to cancel ghost training and keep it active as an option but weære cannot to do that. EVE is already one-of-a-kind in allowing players to progress their characters through offline skill training. We stand by our policy that if you want your character to progress in EVE, you should pay the subscription fee. The fact that so many people have been able to do so for several years was our own oversight. We know this change, and our misstep in telling you about it, has created some discontent and we hope that over time we can prove our committment to make EVE better than ever for you will be evident as you enjoy the fruits of our labor.
Torfi
I'm somewhat placated, although the fact that researching this sensitive issue, or even reading a few of the posts in the thread on it, didn't occur to you is quite surprising. On the whole it does seem that CCP's PR has gotten a lot worse of late and putting your foot in it quite so dramatically certainly won't help improve public opinion.
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AlphaViscera
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Posted - 2008.10.15 00:03:00 -
[2877]
because skillpoints are the only thing that makes people pay subscription in the eyes of the eve destroyers
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Letouk Mernel
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Posted - 2008.10.15 00:03:00 -
[2878]
Originally by: 10of10 Check this out you can't highlite and cut and past this part of of his post:
If you disable skill training for inactive accounts, why aren't you also disabling market orders from inactive accounts? Why aren't you also disabling RP accumulation from inactive accounts? Why aren't you disabling dividend payouts to inactive accounts?
Why are only skill points being hit?
It's too much work to disable all that, for too little benefit. Skill training is a strong enough incentive to keep the subscription active. Don't worry, they'll get to it (soon), just it's not possible to be coded in by tomorrow.
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ArmyOfMe
Developmental Neogenics Amalgamated
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Posted - 2008.10.15 00:04:00 -
[2879]
Originally by: Grimnir
Originally by: ArmyOfMe
the nano changes that a very large portion of the game says they dont want(and yet you still dont post any replies to threads containing valid arguments, and worries about those changes)
So the whole live dev-blog thing with the devs answering peoples questions about the speed nerfs on-air last week totally passed you by?
well actually of all the questions that was posted in the thread, none of the important ones were actually asked in the dev blog. the only questions they answerd were the easy ones, and they did one hell of a job avoiding any though subjects.
like saying that roaming gangs existed in 04-05? well indeed they did, but comparing todays eve with what it was 4-5 years ago isnt really cutting it
Originally by: deadmaus
Because by the time we had calmed Plague down after he heard BoB were back in the vicinity it was too late to do anything |
Zinnn
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 00:07:00 -
[2880]
Originally by: ArmyOfMe
Originally by: Grimnir
Originally by: ArmyOfMe
the nano changes that a very large portion of the game says they dont want(and yet you still dont post any replies to threads containing valid arguments, and worries about those changes)
So the whole live dev-blog thing with the devs answering peoples questions about the speed nerfs on-air last week totally passed you by?
well actually of all the questions that was posted in the thread, none of the important ones were actually asked in the dev blog. the only questions they answerd were the easy ones, and they did one hell of a job avoiding any though subjects.
like saying that roaming gangs existed in 04-05? well indeed they did, but comparing todays eve with what it was 4-5 years ago isnt really cutting it
Why do you think they call it CROWD CONTROL PRODUCTIONS???? If you can't control a crowd... well... anyway..
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The Ubernomicon
Eight year old girls GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.10.15 00:07:00 -
[2881]
I, for one, am still not going to resubscribe. Being able to take a break on any one of my accounts and be able to come back to new ships and skills was the only thing that made this time grind acceptable. This change essentially forces customers to pay a minimum amount of money if they want to fly a specific ship. This is not a change in policy that I can accept.
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Seth Ruin
Minmatar Ominous Corp Ethereal Dawn
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 00:08:00 -
[2882]
Originally by: CCP t0rfifrans The bug that became a feature
On Monday, we released news that we are disabling äGhost Trainingô, the ability to train characters on inactive accounts. This resulted in strong reactions from the community as many people were routinely making use of it. We explained the matter in more detail and pointed out that this had been a bug in the original game code. Those of us who were involved in the process of making the decision and communicating it to the community did not realize this bug had been so accepted as a feature that it was listed as such in our own documentation on our own website.
How can we not know whatæs in our own documentation? Well, to be frank, it was a case of insufficient communication on our part between various teams û a regrettable mistake and hard lesson to learn at the expense of the trust youæve placed in us. Thereæs no way to spin it and we wonæt add insult to injury by trying to do so. It was a mistake on our part and for that we sincerely and humbly apologize.
Many would hope that in light of this we will decide not to cancel ghost training and keep it active as an option but weære cannot to do that. EVE is already one-of-a-kind in allowing players to progress their characters through offline skill training. We stand by our policy that if you want your character to progress in EVE, you should pay the subscription fee. The fact that so many people have been able to do so for several years was our own oversight. We know this change, and our misstep in telling you about it, has created some discontent and we hope that over time we can prove our committment to make EVE better than ever for you will be evident as you enjoy the fruits of our labor.
Torfi
t0rfifrans, Are you telling us there is no comprimise? That this entire thread is wasted bandwidth and space? Has CCP turned a deaf ear and a blind eye to the player base? After thousands of posts of players who are unsatisfied with this entire ordeal: announcement, response, and eventual patch, you have decided to go ahead with your 48-hour timebomb?
I have never before seen a feature that players have felt so strongly about be changed so suddenly.
Your response has told us nothing more. You admit you went about this whole mess like a pack of bumbling morons. We know this. We called you out on it. But you still haven't told us why it has suddenly become an issue.
What happened? Did somebody bring it up in a financial meeting? Were you wondering how to milk the players for even more money? I want to know the exact circumstances that lead you to change this "bug" that, face it, you knew about.
(Yes, this is a tricky situation: Admit you knew about it for five years and are changing it suddenly for a mysterious reason or claim you never knew about it, which would admit you have never actually played the game for any length of time... Go on, your choice)
-- (CCP Inconsistency)
Why cover it up? We KNOW it's all just about money |
Sky Marshal
State Protectorate
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 00:09:00 -
[2883]
Edited by: Sky Marshal on 15/10/2008 00:20:17
Originally by: CCP t0rfifrans The bug that became a feature
EVE is already one-of-a-kind in allowing players to progress their characters through offline skill training.
So you plan to remove offline skill training too ?
</sarcasm>
This is a better answer than all precedent ones, same if I don't like the "We do already some concessions by let you skilling while offline", but I don't still see why I would have to pay the subscription fee to see my character progress in EvE.
This is fair towards CCP, but not between players, so retire this feature is an unattractive measure if one player want make a break. As he lost already many weeks of skilling and as the skill system is unfair by nature, why return in the game ? To return to the precedent situation, who motivated him to make a break ?
This is a gamble about player addiction, player principles, and EvE interest.
Many players give some good arguments that why this feature is more a positive advert for EvE than a problem. If it is really a problem like you seem to say, you can still make a compromise and just limit the free skill training to 15/20 days, instead of the unlimited actual ex-system.
Personaly, I just think that the Iceland bankrupt was unexpected, despite the CCP assumption that all is OK, and that would explain why : - You don't give us more than 2 days before retire this feature, same if you undoubtly know how important this feature is for many players. - You shutdown the "My Account" section, because you probably had to find a bank who accept to give your money, as the 3 most important banks of Iceland go bankrupt... So this requires some changes in the billing system.
CCP don't want cash, CCP NEED cash, fastly, earlier. Do a devblog for this change is also a way to make players communicate to their inactive friends and so in a way, force them to return more early, and so give the needed cash.
It is how I see this history.
This is with this opinion that I will decide of the future of my two accounts.
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Todoshi
Caldari Caldari Logistics and Supplies
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 00:10:00 -
[2884]
Originally by: CCP t0rfifrans The bug that became a feature
On Monday, we released news that we are disabling äGhost Trainingô, the ability to train characters on inactive accounts. This resulted in strong reactions from the community as many people were routinely making use of it. We explained the matter in more detail and pointed out that this had been a bug in the original game code. Those of us who were involved in the process of making the decision and communicating it to the community did not realize this bug had been so accepted as a feature that it was listed as such in our own documentation on our own website.
How can we not know whatæs in our own documentation? Well, to be frank, it was a case of insufficient communication on our part between various teams û a regrettable mistake and hard lesson to learn at the expense of the trust youæve placed in us. Thereæs no way to spin it and we wonæt add insult to injury by trying to do so. It was a mistake on our part and for that we sincerely and humbly apologize.
Many would hope that in light of this we will decide not to cancel ghost training and keep it active as an option but weære cannot to do that. EVE is already one-of-a-kind in allowing players to progress their characters through offline skill training. We stand by our policy that if you want your character to progress in EVE, you should pay the subscription fee. The fact that so many people have been able to do so for several years was our own oversight. We know this change, and our misstep in telling you about it, has created some discontent and we hope that over time we can prove our committment to make EVE better than ever for you will be evident as you enjoy the fruits of our labor.
Torfi
If you think your bullshit response will have any effect on people cancelling alts etc then your wrong, lets just hope enough of us cancel so that it has a real effect on ccp, looks like your banks arn't the only business in iceland now in trouble, and just like the banks you put yourselves in this position, you reap what you sow
Ghost Training Removed Thread |
Xyzibit
Caldari New-Roots
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 00:10:00 -
[2885]
eve has ever been growing but now i bet this might change! maybe now the time has come for ccp to make experience for their first time with losing players!
well seems like also eve might stop growing!
who wanne join the bet that eve will lose players for the first time now???
|
Amarr Holymight
Ultrapolite Socialites GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 00:11:00 -
[2886]
Apology accepted CCP now can we get a skill queue?
|
Zatharyn
Minmatar Ridiculously Serious Research
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 00:12:00 -
[2887]
Originally by: Amarr Holymight Apology accepted CCP now can we get a skill queue?
This.
|
Ihra Imali
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 00:15:00 -
[2888]
I can't believe how long this thread has become in so little time. And not only that, 95% of all the posts I've seen actually put forward sensible arguments from a reasonably objective standpoint.
I'm a fairly new player myself, and when I heard about people who have been playing the game on and off since 2003 I was amazed. There are so many of them, not like in the majority MMOs where people play for a year at most, get bored and move onto something new. As soon as I learned about ghost training I knew why.
Now with that gone, what will happen to this game? Will its originality and future development alone keep people coming back, or will it be abandoned by its core fanbase, destined to a slow but steady decline in subscribers?
|
Chib
Storm Guard Elite
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 00:16:00 -
[2889]
i cant see how you justify calling this unintended feature as I remember when you removed this FEATURE from the chinese server and announced to ALL of us that we are keeping this FEATURE on TQ
it isnt a bug it never was, you used this as a feature before so dont paint it as a bug now
and your customer service has declined to the stage that all your GM's have "standard letters" in their note books all pretty much saying "tough crap the logs show nothing" for just about anything
you have taken and taken and taken for too long and when both my accounts expire i will not be renewing them
there are plenty of games out there and eve has ran out of things which seperate from the rest
Cryptic Studios will be my next port of call or maybe even one of the many many GOOD completely free online games that exist out there ---------------------------------------------
|
ATARI BABY
Lords Of Guile
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 00:16:00 -
[2890]
do ccp hired totally noob devs who has no idea about pro lying?
LIE |
|
HuntedMaster
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 00:17:00 -
[2891]
IT really is just a pile of massive balls....
and CCP just want to find some more balls to put on the pile.
Take my skill training , take what ever you want.
But ya canna take my FREEDOM!!.
Greed , no amount of CCP posting or alt CCP pron fluffing will make it better , You did a massive steamer on our chests and then expected us to go ''hmmmmm this all seems fair and reasonable''
You handled it shi*y , you treated your paying customers shi*y and you lied and then went about nija editing what you could as fast as you could.
Bravo.
p.s im all out of tin foil.
|
Relleh
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 00:18:00 -
[2892]
If CCP is in this big of a hurt, to pretty much FORCE inactive accounts to be turned on by tomorrow, I can see all the cancellations forcing their server into other hands. How much money do you owe CCP? Are Blizzard or SOE going to be picking up this run in the ground MMO, or will the item mall genre swallow this up?
|
Terror Fox
X29 Ice Coalition
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 00:18:00 -
[2893]
Originally by: Xyzibit eve has ever been growing but now i bet this might change! maybe now the time has come for ccp to make experience for their first time with losing players!
well seems like also eve might stop growing!
who wanne join the bet that eve will lose players for the first time now???
Eve is all the Time losing players. If you see 40k Online, That means 20k in Unique. That means many peoples using more than One Account, up to 5. But i will stop Playing EVE Failline. And many people want to stop playing EVE. To Many Failmanagement... Not cool.
What is it Tomorrow? CCP, Keep your Ugly Spacevessels, i will play Anything else in the Future, but not EVE.
|
Black Phlanx
Caldari Kingfisher Industries
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 00:18:00 -
[2894]
Edited by: Black Phlanx on 15/10/2008 00:33:26
CCP if you want to have shit customer service then you'll FAIL exactly like RF Online did, and they were BOOMING back in the day. This whole "bad communication" thing is completely UNACCEPTABLE. What kinda of asshat excuse is that? "Oh we knew it was there but just realized that it's "bad" so we're gonna kill it."
I understand the reasons behind it, but seriously.
How about you guys start showing the user you give a rats, improve the quality of service etc before you start ****ing on peoples fences.
Please Remember: WE are the ones filling YOUR paychecks...
|
Jinx Barker
GFB Scientific
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 00:20:00 -
[2895]
Originally by: CCP t0rfifrans The bug that became a feature
On Monday, we released news that we are disabling äGhost Trainingô, the ability to train characters on inactive accounts. This resulted in strong reactions from the community as many people were routinely making use of it. We explained the matter in more detail and pointed out that this had been a bug in the original game code. Those of us who were involved in the process of making the decision and communicating it to the community did not realize this bug had been so accepted as a feature that it was listed as such in our own documentation on our own website.
How can we not know whatæs in our own documentation? Well, to be frank, it was a case of insufficient communication on our part between various teams û a regrettable mistake and hard lesson to learn at the expense of the trust youæve placed in us. Thereæs no way to spin it and we wonæt add insult to injury by trying to do so. It was a mistake on our part and for that we sincerely and humbly apologize.
Many would hope that in light of this we will decide not to cancel ghost training and keep it active as an option but weære cannot to do that. EVE is already one-of-a-kind in allowing players to progress their characters through offline skill training. We stand by our policy that if you want your character to progress in EVE, you should pay the subscription fee. The fact that so many people have been able to do so for several years was our own oversight. We know this change, and our misstep in telling you about it, has created some discontent and we hope that over time we can prove our committment to make EVE better than ever for you will be evident as you enjoy the fruits of our labor.
Torfi
I am sorry Torfi, but this is damage control, pure and simple, and do not think for a second that most of us do not see through it. What your superiors have done is taken away a feature that was a major selling point for many people.
EVE is an addicting game, and a major hobby for the most of us. Because CCP has encouraged dual-boxing, and dual-accounting, for so many years it has become a major part of the game. After a while EVE will have an effect on a player where we simply have to take a break, and having the so-called "ghost training" was one bright spot - we could set that "special" skill that we did not quite get to, and walk away for a month, knowing full-well that when we come back we will have another avenue to explore within the game world.
It was exciting, and nice to know that you as company pretty much understood us, the adult players, with families, jobs, army service, business trips and mortgages, and car payments. It was very nice to know that despite being bogged down by real life there was a small pleasure to come back to when I hit that "reactivate account" button.
You have taken it away because you want money, pure and simple. And, in short term, it will bring you more money - in the long term, all those short attention span kids with daddy's and mommie's credit cards will go away, and you would have most likely have lost your core gamers, the ones who stuck with you through 5 years, and would have probably stayed for longer still.
I know, I am sounding like a broken violin, but I am so very much disappointed, ever since Oveur and others have left CCP you guys act and deal with us, loyal players like strangers. I have always felt more like family with the other guys, what happened guys? What are you doing? Is EVE not important anymore? I guess things change.
I never said "I would cancel my bazzilion accounts", I only have two, but I am seriously thinking of consolidating into one, and just seeing how it goes, and where you guys will take us next. I am an adult, and I will deal with it like an adult, no whines from me, just wanted to let you know how deeply I am disappointed in what you have done.
<<Click The Siggy For the Blog>>
|
Finger Licking
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 00:21:00 -
[2896]
Gee, so, what's next? That great bug that became so well known that people considered it a feature called Offline Skill Training? No thanks.
|
Col Carter
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 00:21:00 -
[2897]
Originally by: CCP t0rfifrans The bug that became a feature
.. bad marketing / bad comms / bad damage control content ..
Torfi
You probably have no idea how very lucky you are After all this time it appears there's no trace of the ads that ran at the time, even if the feature in question was not as widely advertised, among the various providers and sites which have sourced or ran the ads. I doubt anyone has pre Dragon browser cache archives lying around
It is almost amusing, the "bug" angle. I can see how internally over the years, and after a few debates on the state of the feature it's gotten a bit lost and clouded, and perhaps it is something which has undergone a transition in terms of perspective, but back in those days, the ghost training concept was pushed as a feature from staff to players. It was, basically, a sales point. Even in beta this was a concept presented, but in beta one was unsure whether the mechanic would apply after going live.
Anyway, I digress. It is pretty clear that - regardless of opinions on the topic of ghost training - the main hot potatoe in this drame boils down to detachment combined with form. I realise for many folks it's not simple to seperate what they see as a topic about a mechanism from the apparent emotional value. Looking at a target from an inch away will show you the detail, but not the target itself, so to speak.
Folks are quite unsettled over two distinct trends visible in how EVE is evolving, both have been demonstrated in ample fashion in this and other threads so there's no need to drag it out again. What pains me, tbh, is that the staff who carry their heart on the field will probably be the ones again to feel the storm, instead of those who do deserve a bit of a storm - as a wake up call.
People do not doubt that the folks hard at work at CCP mean their best and do their best, far from. And while some miss the older days of a smaller and more open CCP we all know how corporations evolve as they grow. Often enough subscribers themselves are a big reason for the divide between staff and players, but that was a trend pretty simple to expect, considering this was an environment designed for near limitless griefing
Even more simply put, as a company CCP is going to have to undertake major effort in nurturing the marketing, especially with what is in store for EVE as it is projected to grow, and change. The product EVE has moved to a service model, and to a transition of definitions of "community", but while every step is a phase you've got to recognise how any service model rotates between those definitions ... instead of just moving on from one to the other.
|
Mythrell
Shadows of the Dead
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 00:22:00 -
[2898]
I hate it. It has been there from the day I started p(l)aying, and while I've never intentionally left my accounts to go unsubscribed to train skills, it has always felt good when I came back to know that skill like BS 5 is done. Now it just sucks.
Boo.
|
Joss Sparq
Caldari ANZAC ALLIANCE Southern Cross Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 00:24:00 -
[2899]
Originally by: Zatharyn
Originally by: Amarr Holymight Apology accepted CCP now can we get a skill queue?
This.
One would think that if there was a skill queue in the works, the sensible (even sane) way to do things would be to announce it at the same time as killing off "Ghosting".
|
Clansworth
Burning Sky Labs
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 00:24:00 -
[2900]
Excellent, I've been asking for this fix for a LONG time.
POS Personal Storage |
|
Zinnn
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 00:24:00 -
[2901]
to quote someone previously...
When chribba says it's a bad idea, you know you really screwed up...
|
Zarest
Space Oddysey Pupule 'Ohana
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 00:28:00 -
[2902]
Dear CCP,
We are so not friends any more. Goodbye......
|
Kreeak
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 00:28:00 -
[2903]
Nearly a hundred pages of panhandlers and worthless whiners.
|
HuntedMaster
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 00:28:00 -
[2904]
Originally by: Jinx Barker
Originally by: CCP t0rfifrans The bug that became a feature
On Monday, we released news that we are disabling äGhost Trainingô, the ability to train characters on inactive accounts. This resulted in strong reactions from the community as many people were routinely making use of it. We explained the matter in more detail and pointed out that this had been a bug in the original game code. Those of us who were involved in the process of making the decision and communicating it to the community did not realize this bug had been so accepted as a feature that it was listed as such in our own documentation on our own website.
How can we not know whatæs in our own documentation? Well, to be frank, it was a case of insufficient communication on our part between various teams û a regrettable mistake and hard lesson to learn at the expense of the trust youæve placed in us. Thereæs no way to spin it and we wonæt add insult to injury by trying to do so. It was a mistake on our part and for that we sincerely and humbly apologize.
Many would hope that in light of this we will decide not to cancel ghost training and keep it active as an option but weære cannot to do that. EVE is already one-of-a-kind in allowing players to progress their characters through offline skill training. We stand by our policy that if you want your character to progress in EVE, you should pay the subscription fee. The fact that so many people have been able to do so for several years was our own oversight. We know this change, and our misstep in telling you about it, has created some discontent and we hope that over time we can prove our committment to make EVE better than ever for you will be evident as you enjoy the fruits of our labor.
Torfi
I am sorry Torfi, but this is damage control, pure and simple, and do not think for a second that most of us do not see through it. What your superiors have done is taken away a feature that was a major selling point for many people.
EVE is an addicting game, and a major hobby for the most of us. Because CCP has encouraged dual-boxing, and dual-accounting, for so many years it has become a major part of the game. After a while EVE will have an effect on a player where we simply have to take a break, and having the so-called "ghost training" was one bright spot - we could set that "special" skill that we did not quite get to, and walk away for a month, knowing full-well that when we come back we will have another avenue to explore within the game world.
It was exciting, and nice to know that you as company pretty much understood us, the adult players, with families, jobs, army service, business trips and mortgages, and car payments. It was very nice to know that despite being bogged down by real life there was a small pleasure to come back to when I hit that "reactivate account" button.
You have taken it away because you want money, pure and simple. And, in short term, it will bring you more money - in the long term, all those short attention span kids with daddy's and mommie's credit cards will go away, and you would have most likely have lost your core gamers, the ones who stuck with you through 5 years, and would have probably stayed for longer still.
I know, I am sounding like a broken violin, but I am so very much disappointed, ever since Oveur and others have left CCP you guys act and deal with us, loyal players like strangers. I have always felt more like family with the other guys, what happened guys? What are you doing? Is EVE not important anymore? I guess things change.
I never said "I would cancel my bazzilion accounts", I only have two, but I am seriously thinking of consolidating into one, and just seeing how it goes, and where you guys will take us next. I am an adult, and I will deal with it like an adult, no whines from me, just wanted to let you know how deeply I am disappointed in what you have done.
bump.
|
belicose bludd
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 00:29:00 -
[2905]
I'm in agreement "sort of" to their take on it...they are providing a "service or goods" and expect payment for what they are producing, they had a "bug" *snicker* that they are now exterminating. As to if this a good idea from a marketing or PR standpoint...I think this thread is kind of an answer to that one isn't it? But as a PAYING CUSTOMER ON 2 ACCOUNTS NEVER EVER GHOSTED! I would like to "utilize" my service I am paying for..MMKK? When can I expect skill queing to emplimented? ( I know you won't say it..when hell freezes over?). How about cushioning the blow of the ghost account nerf with a skill que implimentation? Might buy you some needed good will....Oh and please don't insult us with that **** and bull about players-playing-and-ques-stop-playing story..it insults me more than the poor PR at the top of this thread eh? I've played this game since the start (oldest account was deleted) and that "bug" been in since start and requests for skill que have been also. Remember as a CUSTOMER (me) I'm paying CCP (you)for a service..the ghosters aren't full time customers and I understand you don't want to provide the "bug" to non-paying customers anymore (others have given valid explainations to the fact they are in fact paying..just part time...thats another argument) But as the service I'm getting for my money is getting thinner perhaps 1 of my accounts (I can live with 1..I am a addict after all) may just expire without a reason to keep him paid for and the SP ticking.
|
belicose bludd
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 00:31:00 -
[2906]
wow..the 4 letter word for rooster got edited :)
|
Airakin Dhinos
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 00:31:00 -
[2907]
Edited by: Airakin Dhinos on 15/10/2008 00:49:57 Edited by: Airakin Dhinos on 15/10/2008 00:49:00 Well i see this game is getting sadder and sadder. Game features that were used to set EVE apart from terrible MMO's like Lineage and WOW are now being taken away for another cash grab. So i see now that this game is trying to be more mainstream rather than trying to set itself apart from the games that suck. hmmmm which game to choose? WOW, Lineage, or EVE, doesn't matter they're all the same.I think CCP is trying to Nerf their Customer base. Joke's on you guys.
|
C4w3
Minmatar Corp 1 Allstars
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 00:32:00 -
[2908]
Originally by: CCP t0rfifrans The bug that became a feature
On Monday, we released news that we are disabling äGhost Trainingô, the ability to train characters on inactive accounts. This resulted in strong reactions from the community as many people were routinely making use of it. We explained the matter in more detail and pointed out that this had been a bug in the original game code. Those of us who were involved in the process of making the decision and communicating it to the community did not realize this bug had been so accepted as a feature that it was listed as such in our own documentation on our own website.
How can we not know whatæs in our own documentation? Well, to be frank, it was a case of insufficient communication on our part between various teams û a regrettable mistake and hard lesson to learn at the expense of the trust youæve placed in us. Thereæs no way to spin it and we wonæt add insult to injury by trying to do so. It was a mistake on our part and for that we sincerely and humbly apologize.
Many would hope that in light of this we will decide not to cancel ghost training and keep it active as an option but weære cannot to do that. EVE is already one-of-a-kind in allowing players to progress their characters through offline skill training. We stand by our policy that if you want your character to progress in EVE, you should pay the subscription fee. The fact that so many people have been able to do so for several years was our own oversight. We know this change, and our misstep in telling you about it, has created some discontent and we hope that over time we can prove our committment to make EVE better than ever for you will be evident as you enjoy the fruits of our labor.
Torfi
Dude dont give me that .... Ssrly it has been here since day one and that¦s WHY you have a strong playerbase not the otherway around ppl go to uni army give birth and knowing that at some point they can return what you ppl just did was to take away that oppertunity and that will result in trouble for you in epic proportions.
"Even now ur saying you did this with a good heart? if you love the game i think you diden¦t and this was forced upon you by the financial issues? close to the truth?
Please forgive my harsness but im really tired beeing lied to! ANGRY INTERNET GAMING MOBS IRL are bad MKAY!
|
IR Scoutar
Caldari State War Academy
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 00:32:00 -
[2909]
Originally by: CCP t0rfifrans ...apology...
hmmmm sorry but no if thats all you (and by that i mean ccp not you personaly) can come up with in 24 hours....
im still not seeing the apology for the "mistake" of calling this a game balance bugfix instead of the actual bank account fix (its been mentioned to death that skilltraining isnt the only thing that continues)
besides it has far reaching consequences by your own admitance the left didnt know what the right was doing something we already knew anyways and by observation of ccp behaviour over time the head was trying to do something completly diffren from the left and right and dont even get me started about the feet ...
in short it looks like allot of your loyal customers see this incident as the final straw no matter the original issue
now most wont necesarily emoragequit but they will certainly consolidate some alts and/or simply let some existing subscriptions expire
a trend wich will in all probability continue if you (thats ccp) dont do something about yourselves
|
chotaire
Caldari The Rising Stars Cosmic Anomalies
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 00:34:00 -
[2910]
Mr. Senior Producer, so why is there no going back? Stop finding explanations that give no reason, set up a meeting right now and ffs listen to the vast majority of your customers!
Stop this bullshit! We don't want it! Without us you're nothing. I don't want to see you explain to all the new players why everyone who is older than them was able to ghost train but they are not. Now that's balance!
You want to delete one of the two major standouts that made EVE better than the competition? In fact you are deleting your reputation.
If you do not step back, we will reply accordingly. So bring the server patch, bring it! You have been warned in thousands of posts, you shall remember.
|
|
Mynera Nic'Atoch
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 00:37:00 -
[2911]
As one of your many customers who have enjoyed your service (five accounts) for more years than I care to remember, I like many before me, set long skills and took a break for a few months. Only to discover that you are stopping the training during my break. I don't really feel that excited one way or another ... it just removes one more reason for me to restart the accounts. Your choice, I suppose.
You guys are good at this finance stuff .. have you considered going into banking?
Myn
|
fecked
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 00:37:00 -
[2912]
Originally by: CCP t0rfifrans
How can we not know whatæs in our own documentation? Well, to be frank, it was a case of insufficient communication on our part between various teams û a regrettable mistake and hard lesson to learn at the expense of the trust youæve placed in us. Thereæs no way to spin it and we wonæt add insult to injury by trying to do so. It was a mistake on our part and for that we sincerely and humbly apologize.
Many would hope that in light of this we will decide not to cancel ghost training and keep it active as an option but weære cannot to do that. EVE is already one-of-a-kind in allowing players to progress their characters through offline skill training. We stand by our policy that if you want your character to progress in EVE, you should pay the subscription fee. The fact that so many people have been able to do so for several years was our own oversight. We know this change, and our misstep in telling you about it, has created some discontent and we hope that over time we can prove our committment to make EVE better than ever for you will be evident as you enjoy the fruits of our labor.
In short the lies continue. You say you cannot allow ghost training to continue after over 5 years - yes you can. Your choosing to stop it but you could choose to keep it going. If this was a move based on fairness you would have addressed the other areas that make money while inactive:- market orders, rp points etc which arguably are far more unfair than gaining sp's.
Your continued attempts to spin this as anything other than an attempt to force your player base to give you more money is becoming embarrassing for you. Your insufficient communication in house might be a regrettable mistake. Your continued frankly pathetic communication with your player base is a far bigger mistake.
You claim you will prove your commitment to make better than ever. Your blatantly removing a good feature, this makes the game worse for many players (even those who do not realise one day they would use it).
You have failed repeatedly over the last 5 years to address real problems such as macro's, farmers and the 23/7 cheats. I see now such is your desire for income that these real problems wont ever be addressed and this commitment is just more hollow spin.
|
Christine Cormorante
Gallente Warped Mining
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 00:37:00 -
[2913]
Personally, I would like to thank CCP for saving me $360.00 per year. That will be my overall savings per year once this change goes through. Luckily for me, i'm a very patient person. It'll be a while longer before my alts reach thier goals, but when i'm saving that kind of money, its something I can easily live with. So this Friday when I get paid, i'll be transferring the alts from my other two accounts to my main account. Total cost of character transfers? $40. I'm going to save $320.00 in the first year alone!
Thanks CCP. This is truly wonderful news! The missus is going to be soooo happy!
|
LuthienTinuviel
The Vanyar
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 00:39:00 -
[2914]
Edited by: LuthienTinuviel on 15/10/2008 00:40:49
Originally by: CCP t0rfifrans The bug that became a feature
On Monday, we released news that we are disabling äGhost Trainingô, the ability to train characters on inactive accounts. This resulted in strong reactions from the community as many people were routinely making use of it. We explained the matter in more detail and pointed out that this had been a bug in the original game code. Those of us who were involved in the process of making the decision and communicating it to the community did not realize this bug had been so accepted as a feature that it was listed as such in our own documentation on our own website.
How can we not know whatæs in our own documentation? Well, to be frank, it was a case of insufficient communication on our part between various teams û a regrettable mistake and hard lesson to learn at the expense of the trust youæve placed in us. Thereæs no way to spin it and we wonæt add insult to injury by trying to do so. It was a mistake on our part and for that we sincerely and humbly apologize.
Many would hope that in light of this we will decide not to cancel ghost training and keep it active as an option but weære cannot to do that. EVE is already one-of-a-kind in allowing players to progress their characters through offline skill training. We stand by our policy that if you want your character to progress in EVE, you should pay the subscription fee. The fact that so many people have been able to do so for several years was our own oversight. We know this change, and our misstep in telling you about it, has created some discontent and we hope that over time we can prove our committment to make EVE better than ever for you will be evident as you enjoy the fruits of our labor.
Torfi
Sorry CCP you trashed what little trust I had left in you guys after a succesion of bungling idotic and downright stupid desicions this is but the final straw for me. I hope CCP enjoy World of Darkness online when you release it as it seems any decent Dev's have left for that... maybe you will get Eve back to what it was a couple of years back however I somehow doubt it and I for one will not be around to see it if you do....
CCP - You are now entering the twilight zone where bugs are features and features are bugs |
Col Carter
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 00:41:00 -
[2915]
Originally by: Joss Sparq
Originally by: Zatharyn
Originally by: Amarr Holymight Apology accepted CCP now can we get a skill queue?
This.
One would think that if there was a skill queue in the works, the sensible (even sane) way to do things would be to announce it at the same time as killing off "Ghosting".
One of the more fundamental rules of marketing, when you have to take something from the customer, you provide something else to the customer, at the same time. Not something equally big, but a few smaller things, that way the customers can go over a few things which will affect different customer groups in different ways. For instance consider a skill queue mechanism, or a returning customer promo, thinking along such lines is pretty simple, and involves little need for spin or control.
Just imagine CCP would have said something along the lines of:
Hi guys and girls, we've got a bit of a problem here, feature X as many of you know it is starting to get in the way of a few somewhat economical things, and it isn't really as we imagined how it ought to work. We've had our own confusion on the mechanic over time, but we really have to move away from it, get clarity on it and move on with it. So in a few weeks we're going to start moving away from that, which will mean that we will have to remove this mechanism. It pains us that this will result in a lot of confusion, but we haven't just been wrestling with the external accountants, we've also got a long awaited mechanism for a skill queue coming up, and rest assured we do not want to give subscribers the idea that we are leaving them hanging so we're also going to rethink and improve our methods and ways of keeping it easy, and perhaps even easier for players to come back to the game, as and when they want to. We may do promo offers, or combo offers, we're not sure yet but we'll keep you informed.
So, in short, once these changes hit in a month or so, every account that expires will continue to train for say a week. in that time the player can renew it, and training will automatically recommence, after this time training stops. With that same patch we will introduce the long awaited skill queue, enabled API server support for it and what not, and it'll be juicy and simple. The options to keep it simple, and hopefully financially attractive as well, for players to come back to the game will be discussed heavily over this time and we'll hammer something out.
As always we do appreciate feedback, but constructive feedback, an environment so complex as EVE with so many different angles is never a simple matter when it comes to changes.
Anything along those lines would have worked out rather differently .... regardless of factuality. It's not that hard, combining service and community management as long as you allot for topic, time, treatment.
|
ATARI BABY
Lords Of Guile
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 00:44:00 -
[2916]
Originally by: Zinnn to quote someone previously...
When chribba says it's a bad idea, you know you really screwed up...
idea is good.. idea is bad... there are allot of much better way to announce that.
.
LIE |
Airakin Dhinos
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 00:45:00 -
[2917]
Oh good thing i didn't buy that GTC yet saved myself some money.
|
VicturusTeSaluto
Metafarmers
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 00:46:00 -
[2918]
And this is just another manner in which CCP is changing the game because they think it will net them more profit. All they have been working to do recently will only alienate loyal customers and please transient noobs.
Good work dumbing down the gameplay, you will see an increase in subscribers which is followed by a nose dive.
And you intend to do this on top of everything else? real smart
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Grytok
KL0NKRIEGER
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 00:52:00 -
[2919]
OK, I've got another 1 1/2 month to crash someships etc...
This account: expires 14.12.2008 Second account: expires 24.11.2008 Third account: expires 11.12.2008
2009 will definately not see any of them renewed as there's light at the end of the tunnel. There's alot of new MMO's starting like Earthrise, that will be very attractive for EvE-players of today.
You're digging your own grave.
Maybe you wanna call your next addon "Six feet under"
|
Sirius Problem
Darkness Inc.
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 00:52:00 -
[2920]
I have never used ghost training, nor do I begrudge CCP earning money for the game they provide. However, since I started in 2005, I've seen the game steadily decline in quality and I can no longer stomach CCP's arrogance and the contempt they continue to show towards their customers.
I have a family, a business, IOW, a real life. I looked to Eve for entertainment. A place where I could have some fun and decompress. A few hours a week to escape from the daily grind. Unfortunately, Eve has become much less fun for me these past years; To the point that I ask myself why am I paying for this?
I believe my entertainment dollars are best spent elsewhere, so I'm done with the game. - Accounts cancelled.
Yes, you can have my stuff. I'll post elsewhere about how I intend to divest myself of my game assets when I have some time.
Bye CCP. You once had a good game, but no more.
TL;DR - Done with the game. You can have my stuff, but I'll post those details at a later date in the appropriate forum. ---- Train more. Whine less.
|
|
Ayrion Centare
Caldari
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 00:52:00 -
[2921]
When you start off by lying and then go back and partially apologize for lying but not right the wrong that was previously lied about... that is not an apology.
Quote: I like to stay in the background but I think it is important for those of us who disagree to let CCP know.
Ghost Training is specifically one of the features that attracted me to EVE.
I never got into any other MMOs because I have a life and I simply can't dedicate the time necessary to grind up a powerful end-game character. And if I couldn't do that, it seemed like waste of time and money to even get started. So I didn't.
When I first learn about EVE and it's skill training model and the ability to ghost train I thought it was genius. Finally an MMO that doesn't punish me for having a life. I could take extended stretches of time outside the game but still continue to level my character towards end game. Ghost training was a huge selling point for me.
I'd like to have some empathy for CCP especially with current market condition, but their treatment of the matter has been despicable. The outright lie that ghost training was an unintended bug instead of a feature clearly written in your own player manual is so rude and disrespectful it's insulting.
If ghost training took such a financial toll and was an actual bug you could have protected yourself easily by stating in your player manual that ghost training is an unintended feature caused by a bug and it will be removed. Even if it took you 5 years to remove it nobody could make a fuss because it was clearly stated.
Right now you guys at CCP are not in the best position. It either looks like:
There was a bug that existed in your skill training system for 5 years that you actually called a feature in your own player manual which makes you look stupid and incompetent.
or
Or this is an attempt to squeeze your customers for extra subs by lying and disabling a well known feature that made your MMO distinct from other MMOs when it came to character advancement which makes you look desperate and pathetic.
This is a deal breaker for me.
Like I said in my post, ghost training was a selling point for me, the disabling of the feature takes away a very significant reason for continuing to subscribe.
Your reply has at least confirmed what I suspected the reason for this change;
Quote: ...this is an attempt to squeeze your customers for extra subs by lying and disabling a well known feature that made your MMO distinct from other MMOs when it came to character advancement which makes you look desperate and pathetic.
|
Mordrake
Orbital Anvil Technologies
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 00:54:00 -
[2922]
Originally by: Jinx Barker
Originally by: CCP t0rfifrans The bug that became a feature
I am sorry Torfi, but this is damage control, pure and simple, and do not think for a second that most of us do not see through it. What your superiors have done is taken away a feature that was a major selling point for many people.
EVE is an addicting game, and a major hobby for the most of us. Because CCP has encouraged dual-boxing, and dual-accounting, for so many years it has become a major part of the game. After a while EVE will have an effect on a player where we simply have to take a break, and having the so-called "ghost training" was one bright spot - we could set that "special" skill that we did not quite get to, and walk away for a month, knowing full-well that when we come back we will have another avenue to explore within the game world.
It was exciting, and nice to know that you as company pretty much understood us, the adult players, with families, jobs, army service, business trips and mortgages, and car payments. It was very nice to know that despite being bogged down by real life there was a small pleasure to come back to when I hit that "reactivate account" button.
You have taken it away because you want money, pure and simple. And, in short term, it will bring you more money - in the long term, all those short attention span kids with daddy's and mommie's credit cards will go away, and you would have most likely have lost your core gamers, the ones who stuck with you through 5 years, and would have probably stayed for longer still.
I know, I am sounding like a broken violin, but I am so very much disappointed, ever since Oveur and others have left CCP you guys act and deal with us, loyal players like strangers. I have always felt more like family with the other guys, what happened guys? What are you doing? Is EVE not important anymore? I guess things change.
I never said "I would cancel my bazzilion accounts", I only have two, but I am seriously thinking of consolidating into one, and just seeing how it goes, and where you guys will take us next. I am an adult, and I will deal with it like an adult, no whines from me, just wanted to let you know how deeply I am disappointed in what you have done.
THIS!!
I am personally guilty of using this now gone "Feature" only once and only recently. I too will be consolidating my 3 Accounts into 2 or possibly 1.
Would be nice if CCP dropped the price of Character "Transfer" fee for the next month while the player base who opt to consolidate accounts rather than outright quit, but in light of the intent of this "Bug Fix" I think that highly unlikely.
"Arte et Marte" |
GateScout
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 00:55:00 -
[2923]
Originally by: CCP t0rfifrans The fact that so many people have been able to do so for several years was our own oversight.
...and how will removing this FEATURE help the playerbase or CCP?
Will this increase subscriptions? Don't count on it.
Will it help retain players? Nope.
Will in influence players to come back? Nope
Does this encourage players to play more? Not a chance.
CCP...Bad call.
|
Grimnir
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 01:00:00 -
[2924]
Originally by: Grytok There's alot of new MMO's starting like Earthrise, that will be very attractive for EvE-players of today.
Having trouble seeing the bit of 'Earthrise' that lets me fly a spaceship and engage in non-concensual PvP, whilst being vavsour of my own market.
Basically p*ss off, if you didn't like EVE when you did play it, what makes you think you're anymore wanted here for complaining that you cant play it without paying for it, eh ?
Not Welcome, go away.
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Tobias Lee
UK Corp Mostly Harmless
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 01:02:00 -
[2925]
Jumpgate evolution due for release in nov?
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KeratinBoy
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 01:04:00 -
[2926]
Dear CCP,
Take your mendacious bullshit and shove it up your mother's arse. You lie and you lie and you lie and you never learn. You never will learn until your company dies due to your own endemic ineptitude. That was the last spare life you get from me. Next bullshit from you and your ****ing clownshoes company and you are - another 2 accounts.
So, like, 2 weeks then at this rate?
( Stuff already earmarked)
|
Ayrion Centare
Caldari
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 01:05:00 -
[2927]
Originally by: Catherine Frasier
Originally by: Siona Windweaver
Originally by: Catherine Frasier
Originally by: Jocho You completely missed the point that Ghost Training was a intentional feature of eve.
It wasn't.
If it wasn't, then why the hell CCP advertised it on Live chats or Interviews.
Got a link for any of that?
CCP's reply, quoted for truth;
Quote: Those of us who were involved in the process of making the decision and communicating it to the community did not realize this bug had been so accepted as a feature that it was listed as such in our own documentation on our own website.
Don't reply to Catherine Frasier anymore guys because it's obvious they are nothing but a shill and does not deserve your time or well reasoned responses.
shill - A person who publicizes or praises something or someone for reasons of self-interest, personal profit, or friendship or loyalty.
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Senite Ascani
Gallente Celestial Janissaries Curatores Veritatis Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 01:07:00 -
[2928]
My 2 bits:
I have, over the nearly 3 years I've played, taken a number of breaks from EVE. I took those breaks for the usual reasons (rl, burnout, boredom, money, etc.). One of the reasons I would came back is that I knew if I'd left on a long skill train I'd come to the game being able to do something better, or new, or maybe be able to fly a new kind of ship. In fact the friend who pitched playing EVE to me presented ghost training as a feature (which unintended or not, it was).
I think CCP is well within their rights to change this "bug", but it was also a unique feature to the game. I can't think of any other game that allows anything similar. Which makes it's demise all the more sad. With it's passing I'm not sure I'll come back after my inevitable next break. We'll see how many really feel the same. /shrugs
|
belicose bludd
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 01:08:00 -
[2929]
One of the more fundamental rules of marketing, when you have to take something from the customer, you provide something else to the customer, at the same time. Not something equally big, but a few smaller things, that way the customers can go over a few things which will affect different customer groups in different ways. For instance consider a skill queue mechanism, or a returning customer promo, thinking along such lines is pretty simple, and involves little need for spin or control.
Just imagine CCP would have said something along the lines of:
Hi guys and girls, we've got a bit of a problem here, feature X as many of you know it is starting to get in the way of a few somewhat economical things, and it isn't really as we imagined how it ought to work. We've had our own confusion on the mechanic over time, but we really have to move away from it, get clarity on it and move on with it. So in a few weeks we're going to start moving away from that, which will mean that we will have to remove this mechanism. It pains us that this will result in a lot of confusion, but we haven't just been wrestling with the external accountants, we've also got a long awaited mechanism for a skill queue coming up, and rest assured we do not want to give subscribers the idea that we are leaving them hanging so we're also going to rethink and improve our methods and ways of keeping it easy, and perhaps even easier for players to come back to the game, as and when they want to. We may do promo offers, or combo offers, we're not sure yet but we'll keep you informed.
So, in short, once these changes hit in a month or so, every account that expires will continue to train for say a week. in that time the player can renew it, and training will automatically recommence, after this time training stops. With that same patch we will introduce the long awaited skill queue, enabled API server support for it and what not, and it'll be juicy and simple. The options to keep it simple, and hopefully financially attractive as well, for players to come back to the game will be discussed heavily over this time and we'll hammer something out.
As always we do appreciate feedback, but constructive feedback, an environment so complex as EVE with so many different angles is never a simple matter when it comes to changes.
Anything along those lines would have worked out rather differently .... regardless of factuality. It's not that hard, combining service and community management as long as you allot for topic, time, treatment.
well said!! I live and work in vegas, my job is in a casino...we have these things called "comps" when a customer puts up a bunch of money..or especially a small amount over a long period of time, win or lose the pit boss or host will offer the customer one...most comps are for free food or a show or a room in the same casino/hotel. This has two benefits..it builds what the marketers call "brand loyalty" the customer had a good time (even if they lost they got the consolation prize of a "freebie") and will in their mind link good time to your company..telling others (word of mouth) to go there as well as return themselves. As to the other benefit that food/show etc. keeps them on the property where after they have rested/ filled their tummy they may be enclined to return to the gambling and lose even more :)...so as casions rake in HUGE money why not look at that biz model and copy what they get right and rake in some dough yourselves? Give the players a "comp" take something away like the ghosting...give them a measure of consolation back with a skill que....HEY! they may even tell their friends what a greta time they had and their friends will pay a visit! cheers!
|
Peter VonThal
Raygun Technologies
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 01:09:00 -
[2930]
Originally by: CCP t0rfifrans The bug that became a feature
On Monday, we released news that we are disabling äGhost Trainingô, the ability to train characters on inactive accounts. This resulted in strong reactions from the community as many people were routinely making use of it. We explained the matter in more detail and pointed out that this had been a bug in the original game code. Those of us who were involved in the process of making the decision and communicating it to the community did not realize this bug had been so accepted as a feature that it was listed as such in our own documentation on our own website.
How can we not know whatæs in our own documentation? Well, to be frank, it was a case of insufficient communication on our part between various teams û a regrettable mistake and hard lesson to learn at the expense of the trust youæve placed in us. Thereæs no way to spin it and we wonæt add insult to injury by trying to do so. It was a mistake on our part and for that we sincerely and humbly apologize.
Many would hope that in light of this we will decide not to cancel ghost training and keep it active as an option but weære cannot to do that. EVE is already one-of-a-kind in allowing players to progress their characters through offline skill training. We stand by our policy that if you want your character to progress in EVE, you should pay the subscription fee. The fact that so many people have been able to do so for several years was our own oversight. We know this change, and our misstep in telling you about it, has created some discontent and we hope that over time we can prove our committment to make EVE better than ever for you will be evident as you enjoy the fruits of our labor.
Torfi
Torfi, thank you for at least giving another official CCP post. Considering you are old-school CCP, if you're going to continue to say this was a bug, I'm more willing to believe you than some others and I will accept the decision. However, maybe think twice about how changes like this will be announced in the future. The announcement should have come from a senior CCP staff member (like yourself) with the "real reason dev blog" being the first thing we hear about it, not a short, bad news item and wrangler saying "a dev blog is coming soon" to explain why this is happening, like it's a side effect of a nice new feature. 48 hours is too short for notice about account changes like this. You could have told us in a devblog that you've found troubling trend in ghost training and you have decided to fix this "bug" on Tuesday Oct 28th's (or whatever, even next week) downtime and that this is a final decision. ...I could go on, but I'm sure you get the idea.
|
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Battlecheese
Caldari Genbuku. Daisho Syndicate
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 01:12:00 -
[2931]
buhu
So lots of loosers are threatening to quit.
Sounds like a good idea to me.
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Kheldon Fel
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 01:13:00 -
[2932]
Originally by: Battlecheese buhu
So lots of loosers are threatening to quit.
Sounds like a good idea to me.
Loosers
|
James Marshalll
Gallente
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 01:13:00 -
[2933]
Edited by: James Marshalll on 15/10/2008 01:13:32
Originally by: Kheldon Fel
Originally by: Battlecheese buhu
So lots of loosers are threatening to quit.
Sounds like a good idea to me.
Loosers
you are such a looser Kheldon.
-If I told my wife she was looser I would get kicked out of the house.
|
Shard Merchant
Minmatar
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 01:14:00 -
[2934]
STAY THE COURSE! _______________________________________________ CCP CENSORSHIP ALERT: CAN YOU SPOT IT? |
Airakin Dhinos
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 01:15:00 -
[2935]
Edited by: Airakin Dhinos on 15/10/2008 01:20:09 Edited by: Airakin Dhinos on 15/10/2008 01:15:56 Edited by: Airakin Dhinos on 15/10/2008 01:15:19
Originally by: Clansworth Excellent, I've been asking for this fix for a LONG time.
People like this ruin our Future.
|
Feathertouch
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 01:15:00 -
[2936]
Originally by: Senite Ascani My 2 bits:
I have, over the nearly 3 years I've played, taken a number of breaks from EVE. I took those breaks for the usual reasons (rl, burnout, boredom, money, etc.). One of the reasons I would came back is that I knew if I'd left on a long skill train I'd come to the game being able to do something better, or new, or maybe be able to fly a new kind of ship. In fact the friend who pitched playing EVE to me presented ghost training as a feature (which unintended or not, it was).
I think CCP is well within their rights to change this "bug", but it was also a unique feature to the game. I can't think of any other game that allows anything similar. Which makes it's demise all the more sad. With it's passing I'm not sure I'll come back after my inevitable next break. We'll see how many really feel the same. /shrugs
/signed |
Kheldar Silk
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 01:18:00 -
[2937]
Classic bait and switch.
I've never ghosted, but between this and GTC's I won't trust CCP to not screw me in the future. What's the point in playing a MMO if you don't know whether the devs will start deleting inactive chars, doubling the price, etc?
In a way training up a character is like investing in fun (while getting nice dividends) When people can't trust the market to tell the truth they get out of the market. I now cannot trust CCP.
1 account down, 1 to go.
|
Binnii
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 01:27:00 -
[2938]
Edited by: Binnii on 15/10/2008 01:27:43 I know this has already been said many times, but- If ghost training is such a game breaking bug, then why not nerf RP accumulation and market orders on expired accounts at the same time? You guys have already ticked off at least half of your revenue base with this and the forthcoming nano nerf. Why not finish the job?
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Jayce Shale
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 01:30:00 -
[2939]
Good Luck with this customer service decision CCP.
You're still the greatest (besides this)!
I look forward to the Vampire thing which this is paying for. :P
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Seth Ruin
Minmatar Ominous Corp Ethereal Dawn
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 01:35:00 -
[2940]
Originally by: Jayce Shale I look forward to the Vampire thing which this is paying for. :P
I don't. Not looking forward to it one bit. The walking-around-killing-stuff angle has been done too many times in MMOG. Flying around in space is something different, and I like it.
However, the devs are trying my patience
-- (CCP Inconsistency)
Why cover it up? We KNOW it's all just about money |
|
Rhivianna
Minmatar
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 01:36:00 -
[2941]
Edited by: Rhivianna on 15/10/2008 01:37:54 I'm not going to read 98+ pages of posts to see if this was posted. So, here it is...
Has anyone ever thought of it from this perspective: a) You run a company out of India using cheap ass labor and create XYZ number of accounts. You pay some drones to cycle through them and skill train. Once they get to those big time sync skills you set it to cycle and then let the account expire. A month later you re-enable and do smaller skills for a month.
b) you set some accounts to be ISK farmers / mining bots.
c) You give your ghost accounts ISK and a nice high-end ship or 2 and then you sell it.
If you do this correctly, you make money in RL. Now, I think the move here is actually a testament to EVE gaining popularity and the gold farmers, etc... to show up. Personally, I think this was discussed long and hard in a few meetings and isn't 100% a money grab or anything. It's a balancing act to try and keep the economy real and fluid and not be unduly influence by RL dollars / euros / yen / etc...
Yeah, it sucks if you're a real player with real accounts and want to take a break. I've done this myself a few times at the start of a 3-4 month break. My $.02
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Oftherocks
Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 01:37:00 -
[2942]
Originally by: CCP t0rfifrans The bug that became a feature
On Monday, we released news that we are disabling äGhost Trainingô, the ability to train characters on inactive accounts. This resulted in strong reactions from the community as many people were routinely making use of it. We explained the matter in more detail and pointed out that this had been a bug in the original game code. Those of us who were involved in the process of making the decision and communicating it to the community did not realize this bug had been so accepted as a feature that it was listed as such in our own documentation on our own website.
How can we not know whatæs in our own documentation? Well, to be frank, it was a case of insufficient communication on our part between various teams û a regrettable mistake and hard lesson to learn at the expense of the trust youæve placed in us. Thereæs no way to spin it and we wonæt add insult to injury by trying to do so. It was a mistake on our part and for that we sincerely and humbly apologize.
Many would hope that in light of this we will decide not to cancel ghost training and keep it active as an option but weære cannot to do that. EVE is already one-of-a-kind in allowing players to progress their characters through offline skill training. We stand by our policy that if you want your character to progress in EVE, you should pay the subscription fee. The fact that so many people have been able to do so for several years was our own oversight. We know this change, and our misstep in telling you about it, has created some discontent and we hope that over time we can prove our committment to make EVE better than ever for you will be evident as you enjoy the fruits of our labor.
Torfi
My problem with this is that not 1, not 2, but 3 different departments within CCP described this as a feature, not a bug. Marketing, Community Relations, and the GM's all at one time or another verified this was working as intended.
You apologize for the "miscommunication" and say you won't insult us by trying to "spin" it, but that is exactly what your post is.
I'm sorry that I have lost all trust in CCP, but I seem to have read too many of these dev apologies. I don't believe this was ever a bug. I don't believe this decision was made by the development team. I do believe this decision came down from your CFO who I believe made this decision without understanding the customer base and what the reaction would be. I know your profits are way way way down, but this will not fix that.
As I have said elsewhere, I pity the developers, the artists of this game, because your design decisions are now being made by finance people who are obviously clueless.
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Greenbolt
Minmatar Minmatar Ship Construction Services Ushra'Khan
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 01:37:00 -
[2943]
Subscription successfully canceled
Click here to continue
--------------------------------------------------- Scordite -Who was it that said that flying minmatar is kinda like going down a flight of stairs on an office chair while firing an uzi? |
Machine Delta
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 01:38:00 -
[2944]
Edited by: Machine Delta on 15/10/2008 01:39:29 Stop lying to us you stupid shits:
Linkage
Linkage *snip* Your signature is inappropriate. Do not post it again. If you have questions, email [email protected] with a link to your signature graphic. -Rauth Kivaro ([email protected]) |
Erimisha
Minmatar
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 01:40:00 -
[2945]
Originally by: Lord Fitz See, the thing about bugs, the defining measure of what a bug is, is that either the developers don't know about it, or haven't been able to fix it.
Given that developers knew about it, and put it in the guide AND it was 'fixed' for Serenity. This means that it doesn't satisfy either of those two. It is a change which was deliberately chosen to not be implemented years ago, and thus NOT a bug.
That you continue to insult our intelligence with this line is worse than the change itself.
QFT.
It was known. It was promoted in official literature. It was 'fixed' once alreadyon the Chinese server but left alone here--INTENTIONALLY.
And you still call it a 'bug'?
Let me guess. You've recently gotten a pretty decent downturn in subscriptions of 2nd, 3rd and even 4th+ alt accounts right? Perhaps 30-90 days after the GTC "fix" that drove prices to ridiculous levels? All at a time of global economic instability.
Gee, can't see any reasons for a sudden upsurge in people using a promoted game mechanic..
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Christine Cormorante
Gallente Warped Mining
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 01:42:00 -
[2946]
Define loser(s):
those who "insist" this was an "unintended bug" after touting it as a "game feature" for years, dismissing it as "unnoticed", AND:
any jack@ss who spells "loser" with more than one "o" while attempting to derail the thrashing that CCP is getting from many of its loyal customer base.
|
Betteroff Dead
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 01:47:00 -
[2947]
All I can say is that I am truly sad. It was one of the main reasons I loved this game so much. I can't afford to keep my account going year-round; and now I can't train in between breaks. Keep this stuff up, I am going to think CCP has been purchased by Sony or something. Wow, this sucks. |
Ikathis sihtaki
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 01:50:00 -
[2948]
Not to put bad JOoJoO on your upcoming game, but gl with getting that off the ground after the rep you get and anything that will be branded with CCP flag.,. Gonna be an uphill climb for ya. Sure wish you would have dumped some of that money into upgrading your "CURRENT" game so when you switch hands with it, at least the new owner will have a good leg to stand on, not a crumbling failcascade....
Is CCP trying to jump ship?
|
Airakin Dhinos
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 01:50:00 -
[2949]
Edited by: Airakin Dhinos on 15/10/2008 02:09:20 Edited by: Airakin Dhinos on 15/10/2008 02:08:08 Wow CCP I have to hand it to you, it seems that you guys HAVE gotten desperate. But in your desperation you have not heard the voices that scream the loudest, your FAN BASE. FAN BASE is an important word in your business. And from what I've seen 90% of your FAN BASE is saying they would rather end their subscriptions than live on with out Ghost Training, which has always been a selling feature for this game.
I personally know that it was, because in 2004 I had my first look at EVE Online and I was told by another player that EVE was a Superior MMO, because of the fact that there were no level grinds for EXP, and that it had something that no other MMO had, Skill Training. "Skill Training?" I thought. "What an Interesting concept." but the thing that really got me was Ghost Training. Which was touted as being a new approach to MMO's where you could essentially train your account when you didn't have the money to pay for your Character.
I didn't start playing Eve until Jan. 2008, in 2004 the game looked unrefined to me then. Now in 2008 I was startled to find how far along the game had come. Then I was suddenly disappointed to find that 6 months into the game you nerfed the GTC's, which made me wonder if you think everyone in world is rich and can afford the outrageous prices you are Charging for the 60day GTC. Especially when it's still cheaper to just pay for 2months on Pay by Cash. And there was no player input taken into consideration.
So then next I hear that you are nerfing speed because of Cry babies. Now you're nerfing Ghost Training. But the worst thing of all is to assume that anyone of us is as smart as a 5year old child and try to pull the wool over our eyes with your Scapegoat Torfi, by saying that Ghost training was A Bug (nice PR). It's laughable.It was a 5 year selling feature that was just a bug that needed a fix? So why wait 5 years to fix it? WoW doesn't, Lineage 2 doesn't,and I could go on to list 1000 others. Not only that but CCP pulls some dirty underhanded move like telling us 2 days prior that it's set in stone and we're all going to suffer.
So apparently nobody over at CCP HQ knows how to communicate, which to me is pretty obvious at this point. Which makes me wonder will you guys be around for 5 more years or even 5 more months? It sounds like alot of people are willing to burn some bridges, and CCP thinks that they will just ride it out because everyone's just gonna come crawling back. But really thanks for the "heartfelt appology" because that makes everything right and proper.
P.S. Don't even get me started on your Programming team. P.S.S. For all the people with their noses in the air, sitting on your high horses saying that this is a good idea and CCP has every right to F@#k us in the A@@ maybe you should look down and you'll realize you're only riding a donkey (JACKA@@ES).
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Juzo
Caldari Retribution Enterprises
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 01:51:00 -
[2950]
wierd something people care more about then speed nerf. Honestly I never saw it getting this big.
JGE
|
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Tarron Sarek
Gallente Biotronics Inc. Alternative Realities
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 01:53:00 -
[2951]
Edited by: Tarron Sarek on 15/10/2008 01:54:01
Originally by: Rhivianna I'm not going to read 98+ pages of posts to see if this was posted. So, here it is...
Has anyone ever thought of it from this perspective: (..)
Yep.
Originally by: Tarron Sarek So, the bottom line is that 'normal' players, who merely used that feature in a moderate manner and valued it as a unique game feature among MMOs will draw the shortest straw, because a bunch of greedy players and/or character farmers abused it?
Seems like reallife. Some bad people totally overdo things and in the end screw over everybody else.
Wasn't there a way to fix this without hurting everybody? Like disabling ghost training for trial chars. Like limiting ghost training to max one week after unsubscribing. Like at least introduce a skill queue to offer some compensation. Like re-defining (fixing) 0.0 capital blob warfare?
I mean, how many of those ghost training alts that make up the 'avalanche' are capital pilots? I'd really like to know.
___________________________________
Balance is power, guard hide it well
"Ceterum censeo Polycarbonem esse delendam" |
Pep Alo
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 01:53:00 -
[2952]
CCP you fail hard this time, lying like that about a bug is even worse than the big amount of bu*lsh*its about T20 scandal and so on.
If you want more money you should develop better your game (infini-lag ftl) not lying about 60-days GTC (today going for a lot more than the old 90-days GTC) and ghost training.
A lot of spaceships MMORPG are incoming, pay attention.
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Jayla m'Kayla
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 01:54:00 -
[2953]
Account cancelled. Sorry CCP
Much love for you and the past.
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Fenrill Nerkata
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 01:56:00 -
[2954]
Edited by: Fenrill Nerkata on 15/10/2008 02:18:20 Edited by: Fenrill Nerkata on 15/10/2008 02:02:04
Dear CCP, As you probably mention, your idea is quite rejected by many players (it is least we can say).
Beeing for or agains this "bug fix" as you call it is no longer important. Your problem today is that some player dont trust you anymore because you lie to your clients. Or at least they feel you lie to them.
The fact reasons you give to us are true or not is not the point neither. Some player will trust you but other will not.
The main problem is the modification look inconherent and only taken in emmergency : It realy look like you was only looking for a fast ammount of cash and did'nt think about consequences. We all know Iceland have deep financials problem and the date you chose to "fix" it is the worst you could ever chose in the last five years. About incoherence, you'll fix gost training for SP but nothing about RP. However this have a greater impact : on R&D, market and gameplay. Probably more than SP ghost training because ghost traing SP dont give isk whereas RP ghost training give millions isk each month.
Today it look like you have 3 options : 1- Remove SP training and keep going for RP training : in this case you will reinforce injustice and poor preparation of this "bug fix", be prepaired with consequences, 2- Remove SP and RP training : in this case, you'll have a new blaze of protests and the trust players give you may drop again, 3- Withdraw this plan. However you sayed this had to be corrected and I think I can agree with you if you explain the reason well and dont backstab us 48 hours before,
As you can see 3 solutions are bad. However I can see a 4th one : Suspend the "bug fix", change it for a consistent change including RP and fix it only when you will be able to give something in return to your clients. For example skill queuting.
If you take the bone, give something else in return otherwise the dog will bite you. As final word, explain why, give informations, talk about it, take the time, plan it several weeks before the release.
Hope someone in Dev team will read this.
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Zinnn
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 01:56:00 -
[2955]
To me this just shows how much CCP cares about its customers' opinions. I know it's been said before, I just haven't said it. I'm disappointed.
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RVWinkle
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 01:59:00 -
[2956]
Originally by: Julius Rigel Edited by: Julius Rigel on 14/10/2008 19:28:52 Edited by: Julius Rigel on 14/10/2008 19:27:42
Originally by: James Marshalll
Originally by: Julius Rigel
Originally by: RVWinkle Now that this is no longer a feature I cannot justify resubscribing.
Apparently you can, since you're still subscribed...
you do know that ending your sub doesn't end your ability to post or play the game until your paid time is gone right?
[Edit:] Sorry, my point is; what are you doing here if you intend to leave?
I am leaving my feedback in the feedback thread.
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Delos Korelian
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 01:59:00 -
[2957]
Originally by: Jinx Barker
Originally by: CCP t0rfifrans The bug that became a feature
On Monday, we released news that we are disabling äGhost Trainingô, the ability to train characters on inactive accounts. This resulted in strong reactions from the community as many people were routinely making use of it. We explained the matter in more detail and pointed out that this had been a bug in the original game code. Those of us who were involved in the process of making the decision and communicating it to the community did not realize this bug had been so accepted as a feature that it was listed as such in our own documentation on our own website.
How can we not know whatæs in our own documentation? Well, to be frank, it was a case of insufficient communication on our part between various teams û a regrettable mistake and hard lesson to learn at the expense of the trust youæve placed in us. Thereæs no way to spin it and we wonæt add insult to injury by trying to do so. It was a mistake on our part and for that we sincerely and humbly apologize.
Many would hope that in light of this we will decide not to cancel ghost training and keep it active as an option but weære cannot to do that. EVE is already one-of-a-kind in allowing players to progress their characters through offline skill training. We stand by our policy that if you want your character to progress in EVE, you should pay the subscription fee. The fact that so many people have been able to do so for several years was our own oversight. We know this change, and our misstep in telling you about it, has created some discontent and we hope that over time we can prove our committment to make EVE better than ever for you will be evident as you enjoy the fruits of our labor.
Torfi
I am sorry Torfi, but this is damage control, pure and simple, and do not think for a second that most of us do not see through it. What your superiors have done is taken away a feature that was a major selling point for many people.
EVE is an addicting game, and a major hobby for the most of us. Because CCP has encouraged dual-boxing, and dual-accounting, for so many years it has become a major part of the game. After a while EVE will have an effect on a player where we simply have to take a break, and having the so-called "ghost training" was one bright spot - we could set that "special" skill that we did not quite get to, and walk away for a month, knowing full-well that when we come back we will have another avenue to explore within the game world.
It was exciting, and nice to know that you as company pretty much understood us, the adult players, with families, jobs, army service, business trips and mortgages, and car payments. It was very nice to know that despite being bogged down by real life there was a small pleasure to come back to when I hit that "reactivate account" button.
You have taken it away because you want money, pure and simple. And, in short term, it will bring you more money - in the long term, all those short attention span kids with daddy's and mommie's credit cards will go away, and you would have most likely have lost your core gamers, the ones who stuck with you through 5 years, and would have probably stayed for longer still.
I know, I am sounding like a broken violin, but I am so very much disappointed, ever since Oveur and others have left CCP you guys act and deal with us, loyal players like strangers. I have always felt more like family with the other guys, what happened guys? What are you doing? Is EVE not important anymore? I guess things change.
I never said "I would cancel my bazzilion accounts", I only have two, but I am seriously thinking of consolidating into one, and just seeing how it goes, and where you guys will take us next. I am an adult, and I will deal with it like an adult, no whines from me, just wanted to let you know how deeply I am disappointed in what you have done.
Nice summing up.
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Ikathis sihtaki
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 02:01:00 -
[2958]
*******UP NEXT IN THE NEWS*******
CCP in fury of chasing their loyal customer base, and in bad desicions made, have raised monthly gaming fees to 25$ per sub. Also they change another core game "feature"(or was it bug?) of training while offline. Now to gain SP, you must click a button every 10 minutes to show you are active. And to think, they only announced this 48 minutes ago.....
Another testiment of why PR should be numero uno!!
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ATARI BABY
Lords Of Guile
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 02:10:00 -
[2959]
bugs are becoming feature?
roflmao.
well... now i expect anything from ccp... really.
LIE |
The Slayer
Caldari GoonFleet GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 02:12:00 -
[2960]
Edited by: The Slayer on 15/10/2008 02:12:40 If I pay for a months wow subscription and really really work hard on grinding a character I can have a lvl 70 by the end of 2 or 3 weeks and have an endgame capable guy by the time my months subscription runs out.
If I pay for an months eve subscription I can... train the leaning skills and still be in a goddamn rifter at the end of the first month.
Yes eve allows you to train while offline, and yes this is awesome. Grind is a horrible thing, but then again so is waiting! People don't like to watch a timer go from 30days down to 0 while waiting for a cruiser 5 to train.
This "bug" does not actually give users anything for free, as is claimed by some posters. People still have to resubscribe the account if they want to play it. They still have to resubscribe the account if they want to switch to another skill. And with the introduction of 60 day time cards there won't be an awful lot of downtime on accounts anyway (set 30 day skill at end of 60 day timecard would be the max I imagine).
At the end of the day the people who used this "bug" (you cant call it a bug if its documented stop calling it a bug, bugs are unexpected features if its documented its not unexpected) were paying customers who came back to the account once the skill was trained. They may not have held a constant subscription but they WERE return custom. You have removed them from the game. I truly hope that the subscription numbers speak for themselves, as it appears anything we say is going to fall on deaf uncaring ears. But then again what do I know, im just a stupid goon.
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TashEve
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 02:12:00 -
[2961]
CCP - you will definitely make more money. In the short run at least.
Making more money is no shame but the way you guys went about doing it it shocking to say the least.
Anyway, I needed that extra push to cut down my number of accounts.
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ISIAM
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 02:13:00 -
[2962]
Sorry, everybody but, it's true this is the begging of the end.
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Shani Nerkata
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 02:14:00 -
[2963]
Edited by: Shani Nerkata on 15/10/2008 02:16:07
Quote: Thereæs no way to spin it and we wonæt add insult to injury by trying to do so. It was a mistake on our part and for that we sincerely and humbly apologize.
So you don't keep any save of previous source code ?
I see 2 solutions : 1- you are a liar, 2- programmers are incompetent.
Both solutiosn afraid me.
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ISIAM
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 02:15:00 -
[2964]
*Beginning.
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Betteroff Dead
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 02:16:00 -
[2965]
Hey can you at least give the ability to train multiple skills in a row in exchange? This is a feature we have asked for since the beginning, and one I would like to see. So would my wife so I am not getting up from dinner to change that skill I forgot about. :)
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Staberind
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 02:18:00 -
[2966]
*End...
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SZ Rota
Caldari Eve University Ivy League
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 02:18:00 -
[2967]
Some specific responses to TorfiÆs post calling this all a matter of miscommunication:
Lies. End of story about that. The explanation about miscommunication doesnÆt even merit analysis.
A small note on your use of the word æseveralÆ in saying some people have done this ghost training for several years now. It seems slight, but itÆs a significant point to clarify it hasnÆt been æseveralÆ years, itÆs been over half a decade. OVER HALF A DECADE you #$@#.
ôWe stand by our policy that if you want your character to progress in EVE, you should pay the subscription fee.ö Torfi.
Yes, sure, great, weÆre all agreed that this statement, taken out of context, makes complete sense. In any game, to progress, you pay a fee, you subscribe.
BUT THIS TOTALLY AVOIDS THE CENTRAL ISSUE.
IÆll repeat it for you.
Alts are basic the enjoyment of any mmorpg for most people. Eve is very, very different from most other mmorpgs, BUT, Eve is still an mmorpg, and exactly like other mmorpgs, Eve is full of players who use more than one character.
I donÆt mean more than one character as in a main, and then a one hour made hauler alt, I mean a fully functional alt.
Most players in most mmorpgs play more than one character. Sure there are some players who play only one, but they donÆt change the equation. Most players in mmorpgs, including Eve, play more than one character.
Other games charge you 15 dollars per month, and you can play a few characters.
CCP, blood sucking scammers they are, want us to pay a full subscription for each character.
What kind of a game expects you to pay a 30 dollars or 45 dollars or 60 dollars subscription fee each month in order to play more than one character? NONE, except for Eve.
Ghost training was NOT an exploit gaining people æfreeÆ advancement.
Ghost training lowered the cost in a game where the system is already rigged to cheat players by giving them only ONE training slot per account, rigged to charge them 2x, 3x, 4x MORE THAN ANY OTHER MMORPG for the same number of playable toons most people have in other games.
Another way IÆve put it to people is thisà.
If you buy a car you expect it to have four wheels.
If, when you buy a car, they charge you extra for an all leather interior. ThatÆs normal, thatÆs industry standard.
If, when you buy a car, the first two wheels are standard, but the third and forth wheels are extra, then you are being scammed, you are being cheated, you are being screwed, because that is NOT industry standard practice.
Charging a full subscription fee each of more than one character in Eve has always been, and is even more so now, a total scam.
The only reason people tolerate it, and bury themselves under blankets of denial, is they love the game so much and really really want access to the unique charm of the game. That charm only goes so far though. CCP has in the past and is now lieing to, and cheating their customers. Too much is too much.
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10of10
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 02:20:00 -
[2968]
Edited by: 10of10 on 15/10/2008 02:20:38 This was all planned at the Bob & Dev BBQ............
They didn't want those subscribers anyway. |
Jinx Barker
GFB Scientific
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 02:20:00 -
[2969]
I posted the whole fiasco on my Blog, just for posterity reasons. <<Click The Siggy For the Blog>>
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The Riff
eXceed Inc.
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 02:22:00 -
[2970]
Only one word to describe this CCP,
Insensitive
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Shar Tegral
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 02:25:00 -
[2971]
I figured out why this thread is bugged though. With it accidentally hidden, eve search does not poll it for updates. A little convenient, hunh?
To Shar -verb: 1 - To say what you mean. 2 - To say what it means. 3 - To say something mean. |
James Marshalll
Gallente
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 02:26:00 -
[2972]
Originally by: Jinx Barker I posted the whole fiasco on my Blog, just for posterity reasons.
nice blog, the only thing I would change is to add in how the timing of this is very suspect considering they were just pushing the whole "Power of two" access deal right before announcing this change.
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The Slayer
Caldari GoonFleet GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 02:29:00 -
[2973]
Hey I just had a thought, why was this not mentioned to or discussed by the CSM? Why were we not informed through the channels set up by yourself to allow two way communication to and from yourselves that this was going to happen? Why was this implemented suddenly and without warning?
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Tarron Sarek
Gallente Biotronics Inc. Alternative Realities
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 02:29:00 -
[2974]
I think the real issue at hand is that EVE has developed into a game that is largely driven by alt characters.
Especially scout alts, market alts, research alts, producer alts, cyno alts and capital alts.
Who would've thought a trend like multiple accounts powertraining towards one of those goals with as little effort/costs as possible would develop? And many of those additional accounts going into semi-stasis after the monthly costs went up considerably (For european players it was down to as low as 8Ç, through buying GTC's overseas. I don't know about american players)? Reducing costs on EVE accounts is also one aspect of powergaming.
Usage of alts should have been self-limiting right from the start. But this is mostly from a game-balance point of view, which I doubt is the main reason for the change (unfortunately & sadly).
___________________________________
Balance is power, guard hide it well
"Ceterum censeo Polycarbonem esse delendam" |
Deadly Hobbitses
Caldari State War Academy
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 02:31:00 -
[2975]
Originally by: CCP t0rfifrans The bug that became a feature
On Monday, we released news that we are disabling äGhost Trainingô, the ability to train characters on inactive accounts. This resulted in strong reactions from the community as many people were routinely making use of it. We explained the matter in more detail and pointed out that this had been a bug in the original game code. Those of us who were involved in the process of making the decision and communicating it to the community did not realize this bug had been so accepted as a feature that it was listed as such in our own documentation on our own website.
How can we not know whatæs in our own documentation? Well, to be frank, it was a case of insufficient communication on our part between various teams û a regrettable mistake and hard lesson to learn at the expense of the trust youæve placed in us. Thereæs no way to spin it and we wonæt add insult to injury by trying to do so. It was a mistake on our part and for that we sincerely and humbly apologize.
Many would hope that in light of this we will decide not to cancel ghost training and keep it active as an option but weære cannot to do that. EVE is already one-of-a-kind in allowing players to progress their characters through offline skill training. We stand by our policy that if you want your character to progress in EVE, you should pay the subscription fee. The fact that so many people have been able to do so for several years was our own oversight. We know this change, and our misstep in telling you about it, has created some discontent and we hope that over time we can prove our committment to make EVE better than ever for you will be evident as you enjoy the fruits of our labor.
Torfi
Please Confirm or Deny that this change DOES give ample justification for the implementation of a skill queue given that it has removed what was perceived as the only roadblock.
|
N3mMy1
Gallente Research and Cloning Services
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 02:34:00 -
[2976]
The more I read the angrier I get
Just bloody delete all chars that have not be active for the last 6 months will clear up alot of your DB.
So what if they lose stuff, it all belongs to CCP anyway.
The Avalanche of people offlining their accounts is due to the fact that CCP increase the prices of the GTC with the recent changes.
In the past 90day = 350million isk x 4 = 1.4 Billion a year Now 60 days GTC = 510 Million isk x 6 = 3.06 Billion a year
Pretty dramatic increase in isk cost.
What ever said, CCP need money to keep runing and I am all for the changes. But now I will just be forced to cut down the number of accounts I run. Which is suspect is what you guys plan on doing anyway.
Those of us paying sub for alt accounts with isk are apparently unwanted or desired by CCP.
Grrh....
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Erimisha
Minmatar
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 02:34:00 -
[2977]
Originally by: Tarron Sarek I think the real issue at hand is that EVE has developed into a game that is largely driven by alt characters.
Especially scout alts, market alts, research alts, producer alts, cyno alts and capital alts.
Who would've thought a trend like multiple accounts powertraining towards one of those goals with as little effort/costs as possible would develop? And many of those additional accounts going into semi-stasis after the monthly costs went up considerably (For european players it was down to as low as 8Ç, through buying GTC's overseas. I don't know about american players)? Reducing costs on EVE accounts is also one aspect of powergaming.
Usage of alts should have been self-limiting right from the start. But this is mostly from a game-balance point of view, which I doubt is the main reason for the change (unfortunately & sadly).
Let's see..
Power of 2.. Increase of starter character SPs complete with multiple L5 skills right off the bat Power of 2 again.. and correct me if I'm wrong but Power of 2 for a 3rd time (just recently)..
Yep can't imagine who'd have been pushing for more alts on alt accounts.. nosiree..
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Betteroff Dead
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 02:36:00 -
[2978]
Yeah, a skill queue would be a good addition to this bad deletion.
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matarkhan
Soldi di Protezione
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 02:40:00 -
[2979]
Originally by: Erimisha
It was known. It was promoted in official literature. It was 'fixed' once already on the Chinese server but left alone here--INTENTIONALLY.
And you still call it a 'bug'?
Let me guess. You've recently gotten a pretty decent downturn in subscriptions of 2nd, 3rd and even 4th+ alt accounts right? Perhaps 30-90 days after the GTC "fix" that drove prices to ridiculous levels? All at a time of global economic instability.
^This.
CSM - completely uninvolved, obviously, or someone would have pointed out that:
a) you're lying to us about this being a bug
b) it's plainly obvious to anyone who can read (your own marketing materials) that you're lying to us about it being a bug
c) you've got no respect for your customers, or you wouldn't simply assume that they're all illiterate morons.
Keep ****ing on your customers, it's doing wonders for you. Do you know why you have so many ghosting accounts right now? It's because people can't afford GTCs for them anymore. If those accounts can't be ghosted, they'll most likely be canceled.
It's like you're afraid of a revenue stream, so you keep building dams in front of it.
Icelandic logic or something?
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Bedrock
Reikoku Band of Brothers
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 02:40:00 -
[2980]
page 99 snipa
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Xavier Holtzman
Dark Star Cartel
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 02:42:00 -
[2981]
The funny thing is, if ccp would have come right out and said that they needed money, and then raised the subscription fee by $5 (or maybe even $10), I probably would have payed it and kept playing. -=Xavier Holtzman=- "I'm in love with a malicious intent." |
Betteroff Dead
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 02:43:00 -
[2982]
Originally by: Xavier Holtzman The funny thing is, if ccp would have come right out and said that they needed money, and then raised the subscription fee by $5 (or maybe even $10), I probably would have payed it and kept playing.
That will be next...
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10of10
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 02:45:00 -
[2983]
Originally by: Betteroff Dead
Originally by: Xavier Holtzman The funny thing is, if ccp would have come right out and said that they needed money, and then raised the subscription fee by $5 (or maybe even $10), I probably would have payed it and kept playing.
That will be next...
Right after this master plan drops subscriber rates.... Yep |
Dr Zakalwe
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 02:45:00 -
[2984]
Or they could get rid of the fishtank in their office.
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IR Scoutar
Caldari State War Academy
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Posted - 2008.10.15 02:46:00 -
[2985]
hmmm yes based upon history and the way this was handled explained and "apologised" for ive come to the decision that my main will NOT be renewed this week as originaly planed instead and will remain that way baring some unforseen mayor owning up to mistakes from ccp
as for the lovely alt, that will run out on 03.12.2008 wich should let me whitness that thar winter expansion if i like what im seeing by then i shall return if not meh nobody will care and i get to find out how well that thing outside my window is rendered
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Circe Carpathia
Amarr Sani Sabik
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 02:46:00 -
[2986]
Well, after 5+ years of this. Training, going afk for a few months due to the game being boring or broke. It was always a nice FEATURE that was in eve. Guess since ive got 6 accounts inactive 1 going tomorrow, guess this is goodbye. 2 very known chars 80+ mil each. 2 60+ very known, and 2 industrial alts that were 60 and 80 mil. time to say goodbye. Been playing warhammer anyway. Much more fun, no blobs, no node crashes. and the game works. and they do what they say. They dont turn something that was in game forever into a bug that was just figured out 5+ years later.
Do u not understand, most of the people, myself included, take breaks cause we get bored and try other games. Guess what, we always come back and pay. Guess u will lose alot of people that do that. Oh well, guess having a client base of 2000 again will decrease the lag and be fun for most.
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Betteroff Dead
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Posted - 2008.10.15 02:53:00 -
[2987]
Originally by: Circe Carpathia Well, after 5+ years of this. Training, going afk for a few months due to the game being boring or broke. It was always a nice FEATURE that was in eve. Guess since ive got 6 accounts inactive 1 going tomorrow, guess this is goodbye. 2 very known chars 80+ mil each. 2 60+ very known, and 2 industrial alts that were 60 and 80 mil. time to say goodbye. Been playing warhammer anyway. Much more fun, no blobs, no node crashes. and the game works. and they do what they say. They dont turn something that was in game forever into a bug that was just figured out 5+ years later.
Do u not understand, most of the people, myself included, take breaks cause we get bored and try other games. Guess what, we always come back and pay. Guess u will lose alot of people that do that. Oh well, guess having a client base of 2000 again will decrease the lag and be fun for most.
Yep, keep coming back; unlike so many others which just get deleted off of my hard drive.
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Jinx Barker
GFB Scientific
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 02:54:00 -
[2988]
Originally by: Circe Carpathia Well, after 5+ years of this. Training, going afk for a few months due to the game being boring or broke. It was always a nice FEATURE that was in eve. Guess since ive got 6 accounts inactive 1 going tomorrow, guess this is goodbye. 2 very known chars 80+ mil each. 2 60+ very known, and 2 industrial alts that were 60 and 80 mil. time to say goodbye. Been playing warhammer anyway. Much more fun, no blobs, no node crashes. and the game works. and they do what they say. They dont turn something that was in game forever into a bug that was just figured out 5+ years later.
Do u not understand, most of the people, myself included, take breaks cause we get bored and try other games. Guess what, we always come back and pay. Guess u will lose alot of people that do that. Oh well, guess having a client base of 2000 again will decrease the lag and be fun for most.
Many of my friends are doing the same, many of them I actually helped to start EVE as complete noobs, and they are now have become excellently skilled, and really bloodthirsty he he he. But, all joking aside, many have said that they would probably not renew when the subs expire, I am probably the only idiot who is thinking of staying and weathering this storm from CCP yet again.
<<Click The Siggy For the Blog>>
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Circe Carpathia
Amarr Sani Sabik
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Posted - 2008.10.15 02:55:00 -
[2989]
Edited by: Circe Carpathia on 15/10/2008 02:56:33
Originally by: Betteroff Dead
Originally by: Circe Carpathia Well, after 5+ years of this. Training, going afk for a few months due to the game being boring or broke. It was always a nice FEATURE that was in eve. Guess since ive got 6 accounts inactive 1 going tomorrow, guess this is goodbye. 2 very known chars 80+ mil each. 2 60+ very known, and 2 industrial alts that were 60 and 80 mil. time to say goodbye. Been playing warhammer anyway. Much more fun, no blobs, no node crashes. and the game works. and they do what they say. They dont turn something that was in game forever into a bug that was just figured out 5+ years later.
Do u not understand, most of the people, myself included, take breaks cause we get bored and try other games. Guess what, we always come back and pay. Guess u will lose alot of people that do that. Oh well, guess having a client base of 2000 again will decrease the lag and be fun for most.
Yep, keep coming back; unlike so many others which just get deleted off of my hard drive.
Who says im coming back now. This is done for me. They have ruined the game and ****ed the majority fo the player base off now. I wouldnt be surprised to see this as a 2003 client base within 6 months. 2000-5000 max players.
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10of10
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 02:55:00 -
[2990]
It is my understanding that a numbers cruncher convinced them that if less than 1/4 of their subscribers only revolts they will be able to compensate with the number of subscribers paying for accounts they will have to activate... So all you have to do is convince at least 1/4 of the subscribers to demand a reversal of this decision. |
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Jinx Barker
GFB Scientific
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Posted - 2008.10.15 02:59:00 -
[2991]
Originally by: 10of10 It is my understanding that a numbers cruncher convinced them that if less than 1/4 of their subscribers only revolts they will be able to compensate with the number of subscribers paying for accounts they will have to activate... So all you have to do is convince at least 1/4 of the subscribers to demand a reversal of this decision.
What? Where the hell is that coming from? I mean there was no slightest doubt that CCP is doing it for money, but as others have said, if they came out and said "We need money guys, we will increase subs by $5 US a month for 6 months to weather the financial Shitstorm that is overcoming Icelandic economy" I would not have thought twice about it. Take the extra 5 buks a month for 6 months, glad to be of help.
But to be so freaking underhanded, and so sneaky, and so mean spirited as to assume that we are all idiots, is really an insult. <<Click The Siggy For the Blog>>
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Lord Timelord
Point of No Return
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Posted - 2008.10.15 03:02:00 -
[2992]
Edited by: Lord Timelord on 15/10/2008 03:04:55 I am still waiting on a "Skill Que" system to be developed. Make it only usable on paying accounts, and allow the skills to be qued up as long as the account is in active status.
While you are at it... since I am PAYING for the account, it makes no damn difference if I change my skill training in game or from a website. You are still getting my money. So also make skill training changes via the website a reality as well!
Example: Someone pays for their subscription in Six Month Blocks. You could Que up skills all the way upto Six Months. When/If the account goes inactive, the characters skilltraining stops at the next server downtime.
Now get your programmers to work, and get this "demanded since the darn game came out" FEATURE into the darn game ASAP! __________
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Betteroff Dead
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Posted - 2008.10.15 03:04:00 -
[2993]
Originally by: Jinx Barker
Originally by: 10of10 It is my understanding that a numbers cruncher convinced them that if less than 1/4 of their subscribers only revolts they will be able to compensate with the number of subscribers paying for accounts they will have to activate... So all you have to do is convince at least 1/4 of the subscribers to demand a reversal of this decision.
What? Where the hell is that coming from? I mean there was no slightest doubt that CCP is doing it for money, but as others have said, if they came out and said "We need money guys, we will increase subs by $5 US a month for 6 months to weather the financial Shitstorm that is overcoming Icelandic economy" I would not have thought twice about it. Take the extra 5 buks a month for 6 months, glad to be of help.
But to be so freaking underhanded, and so sneaky, and so mean spirited as to assume that we are all idiots, is really an insult.
Be honest Jinx, we would ***** about the rate increase too. Just not as loud...
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10of10
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 03:06:00 -
[2994]
the above will never happen.... They are a type of Drug dealer they will have to keep you logging in so as to keep you addicted. If you dont log in enough your dependency gets less and less. |
10of10
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 03:07:00 -
[2995]
Originally by: 10of10 the above will never happen.... They are a type of Drug dealer they will have to keep you logging in so as to keep you addicted. If you dont log in enough your dependency gets less and less.
Skill que. |
SSgt Sniper
Gallente MAIDS
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 03:08:00 -
[2996]
Originally by: CCP t0rfifrans The bug that became a feature
On Monday, we released news that we are disabling äGhost Trainingô, the ability to train characters on inactive accounts. This resulted in strong reactions from the community as many people were routinely making use of it. We explained the matter in more detail and pointed out that this had been a bug in the original game code. Those of us who were involved in the process of making the decision and communicating it to the community did not realize this bug had been so accepted as a feature that it was listed as such in our own documentation on our own website.
How can we not know whatæs in our own documentation? Well, to be frank, it was a case of insufficient communication on our part between various teams û a regrettable mistake and hard lesson to learn at the expense of the trust youæve placed in us. Thereæs no way to spin it and we wonæt add insult to injury by trying to do so. It was a mistake on our part and for that we sincerely and humbly apologize.
Many would hope that in light of this we will decide not to cancel ghost training and keep it active as an option but weære cannot to do that. EVE is already one-of-a-kind in allowing players to progress their characters through offline skill training. We stand by our policy that if you want your character to progress in EVE, you should pay the subscription fee. The fact that so many people have been able to do so for several years was our own oversight. We know this change, and our misstep in telling you about it, has created some discontent and we hope that over time we can prove our committment to make EVE better than ever for you will be evident as you enjoy the fruits of our labor.
Torfi
I realize the need to save corporate face in your apology and will choose to accept the intent of it. Thank you for that. I however believe you are making a mistake in your reasoning process- see I don't think people are abusing this intentionally but as a side effect of another business decision you made recently.
Removing the 30 day cards made it much harder for people to keep thier accounts all active on a budget, and I believe this is why so many accounts are currently inactive. I do not believe that the ghost train feature factors into most of these accountholders decision at all, rather an inability to afford keeping them all running at the now higher cost. Thus I believe your logic regarding what to do about it now is flawed.
If you persist on removing the ghost train feature, I can accept that- I never really cared about it's existance as much as the the poor way you were handling the removal decision. I hope you will consider these things:
1. Please bring back the 30day gtc. I feel this will actually fix a lot of the recent financial hit you've taken as some people will be able to have alts return to active state.
2. Push this change for 30 days. Basically give time for everyone struggling with thier own finances the time to figure out and adjust to this change in a manner that makes the best sense for them and for you.
3. Admit the financial hurt you are dealing with yourself- I swear, if you do this I will personally buy two etc and give them away as I do like the game (if not your handling of it from time to time) and would like to help, if only you'd just be honest about it.
4. As a give back to those still upset about this, either A. bring in skillqueue, or B. Allow slot 2 and slot 3 to train skills at a oh, let's say a 30% and 15% rate respectively.
I will be keeping an eye on things for a while before I make my final decision on reactivation as I have until May to decide either way. If you take some positive steps toward the community as atonement, I'll get back on board. If not, I'll shop around when the time comes.
Understand that at no point did I care about the feature's existance itself, just the poor handling of the subject. ------- CEO of Maids. No I didn't pick the name. I've grown rather fond of it though.Poor PR in progress!
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Nate D
Trinity Trading Corp
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Posted - 2008.10.15 03:10:00 -
[2997]
Edited by: Nate D on 15/10/2008 03:10:59 I think was CCP is seeing is a drop in subscriptions. Period. I don't believe that a change to a system that's been in the game for such a long time will have a positive effect. While I know of people who use this method of training... I know many more who pay monthly fees just to come online and switch skills. I think that there is a balance here.
This will cause a negative float in subscriptions.
Icelandic banks anyone?
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Silvia t'Nias
Paramilitary Skanks
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Posted - 2008.10.15 03:11:00 -
[2998]
Originally by: Shar Tegral
I figured out why this thread is bugged though. With it accidentally hidden, eve search does not poll it for updates. A little convenient, hunh?
It's not a bug, it's an unintended feature!
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Shinzann
Sten Industries
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Posted - 2008.10.15 03:13:00 -
[2999]
In the years I've been playing this, I've going ghost trained twice. Once by accident when I forgot when a GTC expired. The other intentionally because of RL issues.
I'll miss that feature/bug, but I'm not planning on canceling my 2 accounts because of this.
What annoys me though are how CCP suddenly decided to spring this on us with a two day warning and the rather "interesting" ways of explaining themselves. This might make me rethink my decision not to cancel 1 or 2 of my accounts.
What I'm really really curious about are two things:
1. Why now? Why didn't you axe the feature/bug back when it was axed on Serenity? The truth would be greatly appreciated.
2. Are you going to implement that Skill queue feature?
That's my 0.02 ISK (0.000210165 CAD)
=== Q u o t e: If the servers aren't up, its not a hotfix. |
Ice Dragons
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 03:14:00 -
[3000]
Edited by: Ice Dragons on 15/10/2008 03:19:11 Edited by: Ice Dragons on 15/10/2008 03:14:03 Page 100 Get!!!!!!!
Edit:
Crap ; [
LOL
And on a side note, please oh pretty please, I was so looking forward to training up to fly the new High sec Ore Capital ship!!!
My master will move me to a bad place where I will only slave away at his whim and not train towards my dream.... *sob* *sob*
|
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10of10
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Posted - 2008.10.15 03:16:00 -
[3001]
Edited by: 10of10 on 15/10/2008 03:16:32 First on pg 100
not |
James Marshalll
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.10.15 03:17:00 -
[3002]
Originally by: Ice Dragons Edited by: Ice Dragons on 15/10/2008 03:14:03 Page 100 Get!!!!!!!
Edit:
Crap ; [
LOL
you lose.
I still think ccp is screwing the pooch
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Amarr Hyena
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 03:17:00 -
[3003]
I wonder if they will ever fix the thread...or if it will stay in its mysterious limbo state for the rest of eternity.
or is it a new feature?
cloaking Threadnaughts...sweet ------- ghost training Threadnaught V. Skills continue training even if you are logged off or if your account is inactive. |
SSgt Sniper
Gallente MAIDS
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 03:17:00 -
[3004]
Edited by: SSgt Sniper on 15/10/2008 03:17:54
Originally by: Ice Dragons Edited by: Ice Dragons on 15/10/2008 03:14:03 Page 100 Get!!!!!!!
Edit:
Crap ; [
LOL
phail ------- CEO of Maids. No I didn't pick the name. I've grown rather fond of it though.Poor PR in progress!
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James Marshalll
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.10.15 03:17:00 -
[3005]
Originally by: Amarr Hyena I wonder if they will ever fix the thread...or if it will stay in its mysterious limbo state for the rest of eternity.
or is it a new feature?
cloaking Threadnaughts...sweet
they want it to stay hidden, the least amount of people that read this train wreck the better.
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Cosy Ceaon
Gallente Aliastra
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 03:17:00 -
[3006]
Originally by: CCP t0rfifrans The bug that became a feature
On Monday, we released news that we are disabling äGhost Trainingô, the ability to train characters on inactive accounts. This resulted in strong reactions from the community as many people were routinely making use of it. We explained the matter in more detail and pointed out that this had been a bug in the original game code. Those of us who were involved in the process of making the decision and communicating it to the community did not realize this bug had been so accepted as a feature that it was listed as such in our own documentation on our own website.
How can we not know whatæs in our own documentation? Well, to be frank, it was a case of insufficient communication on our part between various teams û a regrettable mistake and hard lesson to learn at the expense of the trust youæve placed in us. Thereæs no way to spin it and we wonæt add insult to injury by trying to do so. It was a mistake on our part and for that we sincerely and humbly apologize.
Many would hope that in light of this we will decide not to cancel ghost training and keep it active as an option but weære cannot to do that. EVE is already one-of-a-kind in allowing players to progress their characters through offline skill training. We stand by our policy that if you want your character to progress in EVE, you should pay the subscription fee. The fact that so many people have been able to do so for several years was our own oversight. We know this change, and our misstep in telling you about it, has created some discontent and we hope that over time we can prove our committment to make EVE better than ever for you will be evident as you enjoy the fruits of our labor.
Torfi
if u do the same quote this
is a bug is a bug a buuuuuuuuuuuuug |
Dr Zakalwe
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 03:17:00 -
[3007]
Pfail Ice...
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James Marshalll
Gallente
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 03:18:00 -
[3008]
Originally by: SSgt Sniper Edited by: SSgt Sniper on 15/10/2008 03:17:54
Originally by: Ice Dragons Edited by: Ice Dragons on 15/10/2008 03:14:03 Page 100 Get!!!!!!!
Edit:
Crap ; [
LOL
phail
damn ninja edit while I was going to fail your for the failure of the link =(
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James Marshalll
Gallente
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 03:20:00 -
[3009]
Edited by: James Marshalll on 15/10/2008 03:20:44
Originally by: Cosy Ceaon
Originally by: CCP t0rfifrans The bug that became a feature
On Monday, we released news that we are disabling äGhost Trainingô, the ability to train characters on inactive accounts. This resulted in strong reactions from the community as many people were routinely making use of it. We explained the matter in more detail and pointed out that this had been a bug in the original game code. Those of us who were involved in the process of making the decision and communicating it to the community did not realize this bug had been so accepted as a feature that it was listed as such in our own documentation on our own website.
How can we not know whatæs in our own documentation? Well, to be frank, it was a case of insufficient communication on our part between various teams û a regrettable mistake and hard lesson to learn at the expense of the trust youæve placed in us. Thereæs no way to spin it and we wonæt add insult to injury by trying to do so. It was a mistake on our part and for that we sincerely and humbly apologize.
Many would hope that in light of this we will decide not to cancel ghost training and keep it active as an option but weære cannot to do that. EVE is already one-of-a-kind in allowing players to progress their characters through offline skill training. We stand by our policy that if you want your character to progress in EVE, you should pay the subscription fee. The fact that so many people have been able to do so for several years was our own oversight. We know this change, and our misstep in telling you about it, has created some discontent and we hope that over time we can prove our committment to make EVE better than ever for you will be evident as you enjoy the fruits of our labor.
Torfi
snip if u do the same quote this
I haven't uninstalled because they got me with the power of 2 bait and switch. oh well I might as well get what I can out of my subs by eve mailing as many people who I know who don't know about this yet
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Jinx Barker
GFB Scientific
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 03:21:00 -
[3010]
Originally by: Shinzann 1. Why now? Why didn't you axe the feature/bug back when it was axed on Serenity? The truth would be greatly appreciated.
I can answer this easily, because then we actually had a dedicated and independent minded developer team that really cared about the players. Because back then, we still have had a few of the "old guard" left, who now have been moved to the "vampire" project specifically due to their dedication and sucsess in handling EVE and EVE related problems.
At this point we have all the noobie devs, who are so bloody scared of their own shadow that they can not recognize a bad decision when it is being made on the top, and are only capable of "enforcement" upon community at the behest of the purse holders. The "old devs" WERE THE BLOODY purse holders, and actually gave a damn, well, till the Vampire MMO came along. <<Click The Siggy For the Blog>>
|
|
James Marshalll
Gallente
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 03:23:00 -
[3011]
Originally by: Jinx Barker
Originally by: Shinzann 1. Why now? Why didn't you axe the feature/bug back when it was axed on Serenity? The truth would be greatly appreciated.
I can answer this easily, because then we actually had a dedicated and independent minded developer team that really cared about the players. Because back then, we still have had a few of the "old guard" left, who now have been moved to the "vampire" project specifically due to their dedication and sucsess in handling EVE and EVE related problems.
At this point we have all the noobie devs, who are so bloody scared of their own shadow that they can not recognize a bad decision when it is being made on the top, and are only capable of "enforcement" upon community at the behest of the purse holders. The "old devs" WERE THE BLOODY purse holders, and actually gave a damn, well, till the Vampire MMO came along.
its too bad that CCP doesn't understand the bad press is only going to cause players to be weary of their new game.
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SSgt Sniper
Gallente MAIDS
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 03:23:00 -
[3012]
Edited by: SSgt Sniper on 15/10/2008 03:25:05 Edited by: SSgt Sniper on 15/10/2008 03:24:37
Originally by: James Marshalll
Originally by: SSgt Sniper Edited by: SSgt Sniper on 15/10/2008 03:17:54
Originally by: Ice Dragons Edited by: Ice Dragons on 15/10/2008 03:14:03 Page 100 Get!!!!!!!
Edit:
Crap ; [
LOL
phail
damn ninja edit while I was going to fail your for the failure of the link =(
I'm good like that.
Also you phail as well. ------- CEO of Maids. No I didn't pick the name. I've grown rather fond of it though.Poor PR in progress!
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Lothris Andastar
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 03:28:00 -
[3013]
Originally by: James Marshalll
I haven't uninstalled because they got me with the power of 2 bait and switch. oh well I might as well get what I can out of my subs by eve mailing as many people who I know who don't know about this yet
So... you only got the power of 2 simply because you could ghost train?
Hardly, bait and switch, you sir are the reason they are disabling it.
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Vanishing Vixen
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 03:29:00 -
[3014]
Originally by: SSgt Sniper Also you phail as well.
Not as hard as CCP did with the short notice on this change.
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Will Hunter
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 03:29:00 -
[3015]
Edited by: Will Hunter on 15/10/2008 03:29:03 welp
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Betteroff Dead
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 03:29:00 -
[3016]
Originally by: Lothris Andastar
Originally by: James Marshalll
I haven't uninstalled because they got me with the power of 2 bait and switch. oh well I might as well get what I can out of my subs by eve mailing as many people who I know who don't know about this yet
So... you only got the power of 2 simply because you could ghost train?
Hardly, bait and switch, you sir are the reason they are disabling it.
?? Could you elaborate on that, I'm confused?
|
Lothris Andastar
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 03:30:00 -
[3017]
Originally by: Cosy Ceaon
Originally by: CCP t0rfifrans The bug that became a feature
On Monday, we released news that we are disabling äGhost Trainingô, the ability to train characters on inactive accounts. This resulted in strong reactions from the community as many people were routinely making use of it. We explained the matter in more detail and pointed out that this had been a bug in the original game code. Those of us who were involved in the process of making the decision and communicating it to the community did not realize this bug had been so accepted as a feature that it was listed as such in our own documentation on our own website.
How can we not know whatæs in our own documentation? Well, to be frank, it was a case of insufficient communication on our part between various teams û a regrettable mistake and hard lesson to learn at the expense of the trust youæve placed in us. Thereæs no way to spin it and we wonæt add insult to injury by trying to do so. It was a mistake on our part and for that we sincerely and humbly apologize.
Many would hope that in light of this we will decide not to cancel ghost training and keep it active as an option but weære cannot to do that. EVE is already one-of-a-kind in allowing players to progress their characters through offline skill training. We stand by our policy that if you want your character to progress in EVE, you should pay the subscription fee. The fact that so many people have been able to do so for several years was our own oversight. We know this change, and our misstep in telling you about it, has created some discontent and we hope that over time we can prove our committment to make EVE better than ever for you will be evident as you enjoy the fruits of our labor.
Torfi
http://img296.imageshack.us/img296/5973/byebyeevedt9.gif
if u do the same quote this
Firstly Images are not aloud on the forums
2nd) Noone will miss you
|
Xavier Holtzman
Dark Star Cartel
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 03:31:00 -
[3018]
Originally by: James Marshalll
Originally by: Amarr Hyena I wonder if they will ever fix the thread...or if it will stay in its mysterious limbo state for the rest of eternity.
or is it a new feature?
cloaking Threadnaughts...sweet
they want it to stay hidden, the least amount of people that read this train wreck the better.
Yea, seriously.....is there a link to this thread somwhere besides inside the locked thread in the Eve Information Portal? -=Xavier Holtzman=- "I'm in love with a malicious intent." |
ViolenTUK
Gallente Vindicated Exiles
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 03:31:00 -
[3019]
Originally by: CCP t0rfifrans
ôMany would hope that in light of this we will decide not to cancel ghost training and keep it active as an option but weære cannot to do that. EVE is already one-of-a-kind in allowing players to progress their characters through offline skill training.ö Torfi
There is no explanation of why you cannot do that. Simply the aforementioned statement that you cannot do that. Eve may be a one-of-a-kind game that allows you too train skills when your subscription is not active but this simply wonÆt be the case now will it?
Originally by: CCP t0rfifrans
ôWe stand by our policy that if you want your character to progress in EVE, you should pay the subscription fee. The fact that so many people have been able to do so for several years was our own oversight.ö Torfi
Why? You have let players do this for 5 years and now you want to change this with no explanation. So far you have presented us no justification for a change in your policy. Let me make things clear that this is a change in policy since you have let us skill train whilst inactive for 5 years thus so far.
Originally by: CCP t0rfifrans
ôWe know this change, and our misstep in telling you about it, has created some discontentö Torfi
That is a momentous understatement and a euphemism since ômajor discordö would be more appropriate.
Your apology simply will not do.
www.eve-players.com |
Mortisha Drake
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 03:32:00 -
[3020]
100 Get? ; ]
I too must add my name to the role of Alts being denied an edumacation
|
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Siona Windweaver
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 03:32:00 -
[3021]
Edited by: Siona Windweaver on 15/10/2008 03:38:47 Poasting on an epic thread.
Damn, second
Edit:
Originally by: Shard Merchant To recap..
- Release a short news bit regarding widespread and significant change that would occur in 48 hours.
- Buried with other news minutes later.
- 50 pages of posting follow, discussing the legitimacy of this change as per the reasons given.
- Locked 50 pages of posts because a blog was posted, that repeats the same message.
- Dev blog mentions the 'business side' of this move, which the news post omitted.
- 70 pages of new postings follow.
- Thread disappears from Information Portal. Players find it and continue posting.
- Player guide gets edited to remove controversial remarks.
Without discussing the removal of "ghost training" specifically, what we have here is an attempt to pull a fast one on the players. It is easily the biggest attempted ninja nerf in the history of this game. Your customers deserve:
- More than two days of warning, so they can find out about the changes and plan accordingly
- More visible warning, like the login screen MOTD
- More transparency and honesty about the reasons by discussing all the reasons
Hard decisions are always hard, but how you handle them determines if you gain or lose respect. The player is going to feel screwed by changes that affect them poorly, and this is the equivalent of adding insult to injury.
A lot of people are willing to defend this company regardless of what they do (4S name change, t20 scandal), but this community was built on a common respect for the makers of this game even if they didn't always agree. That was eons ago.
You might not see a dip in subscriber counts, but you'll see an increase in player churn that requires more marketing money to support. You not only lose massive amounts of free word of mouth advertising, but scare away players with the amount of ex-EVE types that leave disgruntled at something you did.
After that;
Originally by: CCP The bug that became a feature
On Monday, we released news that we are disabling äGhost Trainingô, the ability to train characters on inactive accounts. This resulted in strong reactions from the community as many people were routinely making use of it. We explained the matter in more detail and pointed out that this had been a bug in the original game code. Those of us who were involved in the process of making the decision and communicating it to the community did not realize this bug had been so accepted as a feature that it was listed as such in our own documentation on our own website.
How can we not know whatæs in our own documentation? Well, to be frank, it was a case of insufficient communication on our part between various teams û a regrettable mistake and hard lesson to learn at the expense of the trust youæve placed in us. Thereæs no way to spin it and we wonæt add insult to injury by trying to do so. It was a mistake on our part and for that we sincerely and humbly apologize.
Many would hope that in light of this we will decide not to cancel ghost training and keep it active as an option but weære cannot to do that. EVE is already one-of-a-kind in allowing players to progress their characters through offline skill training. We stand by our policy that if you want your character to progress in EVE, you should pay the subscription fee. The fact that so many people have been able to do so for several years was our own oversight. We know this change, and our misstep in telling you about it, has created some discontent and we hope that over time we can prove our committment to make EVE better than ever for you will be evident as you enjoy the fruits of our labor.
Torfi
Sorry, but an apology after realizing your ninja nerf has failed doesn't count.
It took 170+ pages for you to admit it, but even while doing it you are still doing wrong.
|
Deadly Hobbitses
Caldari State War Academy
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 03:32:00 -
[3022]
Edited by: Deadly Hobbitses on 15/10/2008 03:32:41 Page 100 Snypa fail attempt :(
Think this deserves a skill queue for all of us hobbitses.
|
Lord Fuzzywig
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 03:32:00 -
[3023]
Edited by: Lord Fuzzywig on 15/10/2008 03:33:18 PAGE 100!
Is it can be tiem for hugs nao prz?
<3<3<3 ~Lord Fuzzywig
e/ Noooooooooooooooooooo! :(
|
Jogvan
coracao ardente Triumvirate.
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 03:32:00 -
[3024]
Edited by: Jogvan on 15/10/2008 03:34:11 Edited by: Jogvan on 15/10/2008 03:32:44 Crap
Edit: CCP can you see this thread? 100 pages about how much your customers love you. AWESOME!!!!!!!
|
EnslaverOfMinmatar
Yarsk Hunters DeaDSpace Coalition
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 03:32:00 -
[3025]
page 100 woot!!
Skills continue training even if you are logged off or if your account is inactive (in the second scenario you can't change skill tr |
Staberind
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 03:32:00 -
[3026]
i want my tiiime baaaaack....... suxors, and my exes who left me for playing this damn game...
|
Lothris Andastar
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 03:32:00 -
[3027]
Originally by: Betteroff Dead
Originally by: Lothris Andastar
Originally by: James Marshalll
I haven't uninstalled because they got me with the power of 2 bait and switch. oh well I might as well get what I can out of my subs by eve mailing as many people who I know who don't know about this yet
So... you only got the power of 2 simply because you could ghost train?
Hardly, bait and switch, you sir are the reason they are disabling it.
?? Could you elaborate on that, I'm confused?
He is saying he's not leaving because apparently the power of 2 was a bait and switch. I take this to mean his intention was to ghost train with the alt.
CCP have disabled ghost training because too many people were abusing it.
Ergo he is part of the reason why they are disabling it.
I honestly don't know why people are getting so emo about this. If you want to gain SP u pay your subscription like every other damn MMO out there.
|
younub
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 03:32:00 -
[3028]
page 100 snypa
|
Will Hunter
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 03:33:00 -
[3029]
Edited by: Will Hunter on 15/10/2008 03:33:26 double welp
|
OpenGuard
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 03:33:00 -
[3030]
Edited by: OpenGuard on 15/10/2008 03:36:39 on page 100 wee
but seriously, i have used the ghost train to play two chars, had one active each month and one training. it was great, and im sad to see it go. terrible change imo, and im not going to condone ccp's actions by activating both accts when they expire. will go back to one acct, not a huge deal, but i really feel this BS is mostly because of the loss of 30 day gtc's and the ridiculous isk cost for the 60 day gtc.
|
|
Lothris Andastar
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 03:33:00 -
[3031]
Originally by: Mortisha Drake 100 Get? ; ]
I too must add my name to the role of Alts being denied an edumacation
Have a cookie
|
James Marshalll
Gallente
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 03:35:00 -
[3032]
Originally by: Lothris Andastar
Originally by: James Marshalll
I haven't uninstalled because they got me with the power of 2 bait and switch. oh well I might as well get what I can out of my subs by eve mailing as many people who I know who don't know about this yet
So... you only got the power of 2 simply because you could ghost train?
Hardly, bait and switch, you sir are the reason they are disabling it.
Hi, can you please state where in my post that said the ONLY reason I got the power of 2 account was for using ghost training?
didn't think so. Move on fanboi.
|
SZ Rota
Caldari Eve University Ivy League
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 03:35:00 -
[3033]
Yes. 100. Or 151 if you count the other pages split off by CCP trying to sweep it under the carpet.
|
Shoopinou
Gallente Garoun Investment Bank
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 03:36:00 -
[3034]
Edited by: Shoopinou on 15/10/2008 03:44:09 What about the skill queue ?
What about the "ghost research points", and the "ghost buy/sell orders" ?
|
James Marshalll
Gallente
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 03:37:00 -
[3035]
Edited by: James Marshalll on 15/10/2008 03:38:53
Originally by: Lothris Andastar
Originally by: Betteroff Dead
Originally by: Lothris Andastar
Originally by: James Marshalll
I haven't uninstalled because they got me with the power of 2 bait and switch. oh well I might as well get what I can out of my subs by eve mailing as many people who I know who don't know about this yet
So... you only got the power of 2 simply because you could ghost train?
Hardly, bait and switch, you sir are the reason they are disabling it.
?? Could you elaborate on that, I'm confused?
He is saying he's not leaving because apparently the power of 2 was a bait and switch. I take this to mean his intention was to ghost train with the alt.
CCP have disabled ghost training because too many people were abusing it.
Ergo he is part of the reason why they are disabling it.
I honestly don't know why people are getting so emo about this. If you want to gain SP u pay your subscription like every other damn MMO out there.
Really? In other mmo's I don't have to pay an EXTRA 17 bucks a month to play a second toon and advance it. This isn't even close to any other mmo out there, but because your nose is brown and stanky from having it shoved so far up CCP's rear end you will never understand that. - Matter of fact, I think EQ allows 10 on each server, EQ2 8, or 10 with the advanced sub (which also grants you access to EVERY other SoE mmo), WoW? not sure, DAoC 8 characters, I can keep going if you want?
|
Mortisha Drake
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 03:38:00 -
[3036]
Originally by: Lothris Andastar
Originally by: Mortisha Drake 100 Get? ; ]
I too must add my name to the role of Alts being denied an edumacation
Have a cookie
*eats cookie*
As Alts go I think I can use my charms to steal a bit of time hittin the books after class is dismissed....
|
Col Callahan
Caldari Oberon Incorporated Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 03:38:00 -
[3037]
holy crap, C-C-C-C-C-C-C-C-C-C-COMBO BREAKER!>!>?!?!>!?>!?>!
100 pages, CCP, even the carrier drone Nerf didn't have 100 pages, come your sense's. _
|
PsychoBones II
R.E.C.O.N. The Firm.
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 03:38:00 -
[3038]
So I cba to check the 50ish pages I missed while I was asleep and at work, do we have a dev reply yet?
Quit banning me. |
Jogvan
coracao ardente Triumvirate.
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 03:40:00 -
[3039]
Originally by: PsychoBones II So I cba to check the 50ish pages I missed while I was asleep and at work, do we have a dev reply yet?
Yes, its quoted on this page
|
ISIAM
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 03:40:00 -
[3040]
Please, everyone that disagrees with the "nerfing" of the ability to "Ghost train" Please let C.C.P. know Buy E-mailing Them your feelings. Please do not stand by and let it take place. speak out, use your voice and let them know. If you are for the "nerfing" please disregard my mail and be prepared for the end. Thanks for your time and support in this matter. Yours truly, "ISIAM"
|
|
James Marshalll
Gallente
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 03:40:00 -
[3041]
Originally by: PsychoBones II So I cba to check the 50ish pages I missed while I was asleep and at work, do we have a dev reply yet?
yea. They basically said "Sorry we had no idea that was in our player guide, but it doesn't change the fact that we are going through with this change. Hope you guys can forgive us and come back in a few months when we make this game cool"
|
Nobues
Gallente Oberon Incorporated Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 03:41:00 -
[3042]
lets push to 101 Webhosting, teamspeak and Killboard for you, your corp, and your Alliance Click me for more info |
Lorac Caladon
Caldari The Cowboy Junkies
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 03:41:00 -
[3043]
Originally by: SSgt Sniper
Originally by: CCP t0rfifrans The bug that became a feature
On Monday, we released news that we are disabling äGhost Trainingô, the ability to train characters on inactive accounts. This resulted in strong reactions from the community as many people were routinely making use of it. We explained the matter in more detail and pointed out that this had been a bug in the original game code. Those of us who were involved in the process of making the decision and communicating it to the community did not realize this bug had been so accepted as a feature that it was listed as such in our own documentation on our own website.
How can we not know whatæs in our own documentation? Well, to be frank, it was a case of insufficient communication on our part between various teams û a regrettable mistake and hard lesson to learn at the expense of the trust youæve placed in us. Thereæs no way to spin it and we wonæt add insult to injury by trying to do so. It was a mistake on our part and for that we sincerely and humbly apologize.
Many would hope that in light of this we will decide not to cancel ghost training and keep it active as an option but weære cannot to do that. EVE is already one-of-a-kind in allowing players to progress their characters through offline skill training. We stand by our policy that if you want your character to progress in EVE, you should pay the subscription fee. The fact that so many people have been able to do so for several years was our own oversight. We know this change, and our misstep in telling you about it, has created some discontent and we hope that over time we can prove our committment to make EVE better than ever for you will be evident as you enjoy the fruits of our labor.
Torfi
I realize the need to save corporate face in your apology and will choose to accept the intent of it. Thank you for that. I however believe you are making a mistake in your reasoning process- see I don't think people are abusing this intentionally but as a side effect of another business decision you made recently.
Removing the 30 day cards made it much harder for people to keep thier accounts all active on a budget, and I believe this is why so many accounts are currently inactive. I do not believe that the ghost train feature factors into most of these accountholders decision at all, rather an inability to afford keeping them all running at the now higher cost. Thus I believe your logic regarding what to do about it now is flawed.
If you persist on removing the ghost train feature, I can accept that- I never really cared about it's existance as much as the the poor way you were handling the removal decision. I hope you will consider these things:
1. Please bring back the 30day gtc. I feel this will actually fix a lot of the recent financial hit you've taken as some people will be able to have alts return to active state.
2. Push this change for 30 days. Basically give time for everyone struggling with thier own finances the time to figure out and adjust to this change in a manner that makes the best sense for them and for you.
3. Admit the financial hurt you are dealing with yourself- I swear, if you do this I will personally buy two etc and give them away as I do like the game (if not your handling of it from time to time) and would like to help, if only you'd just be honest about it.
4. As a give back to those still upset about this, either A. bring in skillqueue, or B. Allow slot 2 and slot 3 to train skills at a oh, let's say a 30% and 15% rate respectively.
I will be keeping an eye on things for a while before I make my final decision on reactivation as I have until May to decide either way. If you take some positive steps toward the community as atonement, I'll get back on board. If not, I'll shop around when the time comes.
Understand that at no point did I care about the feature's existance itself, just the poor handling of the subject.
This
|
Betteroff Dead
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 03:42:00 -
[3044]
Originally by: Lothris Andastar
Originally by: Betteroff Dead
Originally by: Lothris Andastar
Originally by: James Marshalll
I haven't uninstalled because they got me with the power of 2 bait and switch. oh well I might as well get what I can out of my subs by eve mailing as many people who I know who don't know about this yet
So... you only got the power of 2 simply because you could ghost train?
Hardly, bait and switch, you sir are the reason they are disabling it.
?? Could you elaborate on that, I'm confused?
He is saying he's not leaving because apparently the power of 2 was a bait and switch. I take this to mean his intention was to ghost train with the alt.
CCP have disabled ghost training because too many people were abusing it.
Ergo he is part of the reason why they are disabling it.
I honestly don't know why people are getting so emo about this. If you want to gain SP u pay your subscription like every other damn MMO out there.
Simple. I am a father, and now a part time player. This was the absolute perfect game for me. I could play for a few months. Put it down for a month or so and come back with a new skill. It's been beautiful and something a raved about to many people. To force feed me to pay 12 months a year is a big change to how things where when it all began and continued to be.
|
ViolenTUK
Gallente Vindicated Exiles
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 03:43:00 -
[3045]
This is inexcusably the worst mistake in CCPÆs history beating the almost comically pathetic carrier nerf by a considerable margin. Absolutely appalling. A hundred pages of discontent in a little more than one day.
www.eve-players.com |
Nate D
Trinity Trading Corp
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 03:43:00 -
[3046]
As my own opinion... I do get tired of playing EVE on occasion and leave. When I come back, I am excited to be greeted by a brand new level 5 skill. It's a reward for rejoining the game!
Not any more :-(
|
Siona Windweaver
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 03:44:00 -
[3047]
Edited by: Siona Windweaver on 15/10/2008 03:44:27
Originally by: Col Callahan holy crap, C-C-C-C-C-C-C-C-C-C-COMBO BREAKER!>!>?!?!>!?>!?>!
100 pages, CCP, even the carrier drone Nerf didn't have 100 pages, come your sense's.
Actually, there is another thread with 50 pages (locked because of this one), so its more like 150 pages.
edit: damn, too late.
|
Shinzann
Sten Industries
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 03:44:00 -
[3048]
Originally by: SSgt Sniper
Originally by: CCP t0rfifrans The bug that became a feature
On Monday, we released news that we are disabling äGhost Trainingô, the ability to train characters on inactive accounts. This resulted in strong reactions from the community as many people were routinely making use of it. We explained the matter in more detail and pointed out that this had been a bug in the original game code. Those of us who were involved in the process of making the decision and communicating it to the community did not realize this bug had been so accepted as a feature that it was listed as such in our own documentation on our own website.
How can we not know whatæs in our own documentation? Well, to be frank, it was a case of insufficient communication on our part between various teams û a regrettable mistake and hard lesson to learn at the expense of the trust youæve placed in us. Thereæs no way to spin it and we wonæt add insult to injury by trying to do so. It was a mistake on our part and for that we sincerely and humbly apologize.
Many would hope that in light of this we will decide not to cancel ghost training and keep it active as an option but weære cannot to do that. EVE is already one-of-a-kind in allowing players to progress their characters through offline skill training. We stand by our policy that if you want your character to progress in EVE, you should pay the subscription fee. The fact that so many people have been able to do so for several years was our own oversight. We know this change, and our misstep in telling you about it, has created some discontent and we hope that over time we can prove our committment to make EVE better than ever for you will be evident as you enjoy the fruits of our labor.
Torfi
I realize the need to save corporate face in your apology and will choose to accept the intent of it. Thank you for that. I however believe you are making a mistake in your reasoning process- see I don't think people are abusing this intentionally but as a side effect of another business decision you made recently.
Removing the 30 day cards made it much harder for people to keep thier accounts all active on a budget, and I believe this is why so many accounts are currently inactive. I do not believe that the ghost train feature factors into most of these accountholders decision at all, rather an inability to afford keeping them all running at the now higher cost. Thus I believe your logic regarding what to do about it now is flawed.
If you persist on removing the ghost train feature, I can accept that- I never really cared about it's existance as much as the the poor way you were handling the removal decision. I hope you will consider these things:
1. Please bring back the 30day gtc. I feel this will actually fix a lot of the recent financial hit you've taken as some people will be able to have alts return to active state.
2. Push this change for 30 days. Basically give time for everyone struggling with thier own finances the time to figure out and adjust to this change in a manner that makes the best sense for them and for you.
3. Admit the financial hurt you are dealing with yourself- I swear, if you do this I will personally buy two etc and give them away as I do like the game (if not your handling of it from time to time) and would like to help, if only you'd just be honest about it.
4. As a give back to those still upset about this, either A. bring in skillqueue, or B. Allow slot 2 and slot 3 to train skills at a oh, let's say a 30% and 15% rate respectively.
I will be keeping an eye on things for a while before I make my final decision on reactivation as I have until May to decide either way. If you take some positive steps toward the community as atonement, I'll get back on board. If not, I'll shop around when the time comes.
Understand that at no point did I care about the feature's existance itself, just the poor handling of the subject.
This too. === Q u o t e: If the servers aren't up, its not a hotfix. |
Balcura
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 03:47:00 -
[3049]
So you go ahead and admit you guys don't even have the slightest idea of what your own game states as "it works like this"... The game has so little information that is written by you guys HOW IN THE H.E.L.L can you not even be familiar with it?
We must go ahead screw our player base as a matter of bug fixing... Bull
How bout you fix a few things that have been asked for and things that fundamentally screw up the game before you hope on a feature that has been around for ever?
I just can't believe CCP is turning into every other MMO and screwing players just to screw them even when there is nothing really wrong with the system.
|
Nim Sakura
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 03:50:00 -
[3050]
The only bright spot I might find in the 100 page "perfect storm of customer dissatisfaction" is MAYBE Jita may not lag as bad.
In order to take advantage of ghost training, a skill would have to be a 30+ day train. Which means a Rank 8 or higher skill to Level V. Which would really only effect veteran long term players with characters about 9 months to a year old. *GASP!* OMG! you're talking about your staunchest and strongest customer base!
Oh, CCP .. might I point out that after the lateral abdominal incision, the sword is returned to the midriff, rotated blade up and thrust upwards to the breastbone, however, I think this action was a less complicated way of committed MMORPG suicide.
|
|
CIA1
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 03:52:00 -
[3051]
Originally by: CCP t0rfifransThe bug that became a feature
On Monday, we released news that we are disabling äGhost Trainingô, the ability to train characters on inactive accounts. This resulted in strong reactions from the community as many people were routinely making use of it. We explained the matter in more detail and pointed out that this had been a bug in the original game code. Those of us who were involved in the process of making the decision and communicating it to the community did not realize this bug had been so accepted as a feature that it was listed as such in our own documentation on our own website.
How can we not know whatæs in our own documentation? Well, to be frank, it was a case of insufficient communication on our part between various teams û a regrettable mistake and hard lesson to learn at the expense of the trust youæve placed in us. Thereæs no way to spin it and we wonæt add insult to injury by trying to do so. It was a mistake on our part and for that we sincerely and humbly apologize.
Many would hope that in light of this we will decide not to cancel ghost training and keep it active as an option but weære cannot to do that. EVE is already one-of-a-kind in allowing players to progress their characters through offline skill training. We stand by our policy that if you want your character to progress in EVE, you should pay the subscription fee. The fact that so many people have been able to do so for several years was our own oversight. We know this change, and our misstep in telling you about it, has created some discontent and we hope that over time we can prove our committment to make EVE better than ever for you will be evident as you enjoy the fruits of our labor.
Torfi
No, this dumn ass sh*t.
|
Richard Aiel
Caldari Caldari Provisions
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 03:52:00 -
[3052]
Originally by: Siona Windweaver Edited by: Siona Windweaver on 15/10/2008 03:44:27
Originally by: Col Callahan holy crap, C-C-C-C-C-C-C-C-C-C-COMBO BREAKER!>!>?!?!>!?>!?>!
100 pages, CCP, even the carrier drone Nerf didn't have 100 pages, come your sense's.
Actually, there is another thread with 50 pages (locked because of this one), so its more like 150 pages.
edit: damn, too late.
CCP Fallout made another thread to send ppl to but it only made 2 pages before he/she locked it.
CCP you are your own worst enemy. |
ISIAM
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 03:55:00 -
[3053]
Just spamed my entire corp, hope it works.
|
JPBee 001
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 03:55:00 -
[3054]
Edited by: JPBee 001 on 15/10/2008 03:55:21 We still on 100?
Edit; DAMN
|
ISIAM
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 03:55:00 -
[3055]
no.
|
TheG2
Gallente Dirty Rotten Scoundrels
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 03:57:00 -
[3056]
2 accounts are now set to expire in December when the time runs out. It's been fun but CCP has screwed it up too badly and their lies and nonsense were the final straw.
|
ISIAM
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 03:58:00 -
[3057]
Originally by: CCP t0rfifransThe bug that became a feature
On Monday, we released news that we are disabling äGhost Trainingô, the ability to train characters on inactive accounts. This resulted in strong reactions from the community as many people were routinely making use of it. We explained the matter in more detail and pointed out that this had been a bug in the original game code. Those of us who were involved in the process of making the decision and communicating it to the community did not realize this bug had been so accepted as a feature that it was listed as such in our own documentation on our own website.
How can we not know whatæs in our own documentation? Well, to be frank, it was a case of insufficient communication on our part between various teams û a regrettable mistake and hard lesson to learn at the expense of the trust youæve placed in us. Thereæs no way to spin it and we wonæt add insult to injury by trying to do so. It was a mistake on our part and for that we sincerely and humbly apologize.
Many would hope that in light of this we will decide not to cancel ghost training and keep it active as an option but weære cannot to do that. EVE is already one-of-a-kind in allowing players to progress their characters through offline skill training. We stand by our policy that if you want your character to progress in EVE, you should pay the subscription fee. The fact that so many people have been able to do so for several years was our own oversight. We know this change, and our misstep in telling you about it, has created some discontent and we hope that over time we can prove our committment to make EVE better than ever for you will be evident as you enjoy the fruits of our labor.
Torfi
Back to the topic at hand "I'm mad as hell and I'm not going to take it anymore."
|
10of10
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 04:00:00 -
[3058]
Edited by: 10of10 on 15/10/2008 04:00:46 "I'm mad as hell and I'm not going to take it anymore."
Second btw. |
Julius Kashmir
Caldari Dark Skullz Empire Intrepid Crossing
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 04:03:00 -
[3059]
My last message since CCP removed all their GTCs besides the new and "oh so helpfull" 60d (which btw now goes for about 500mil) doesn't help EVE or CCP to go copying other MMOs, instead they need to set the bar and sure this isn't a good exploit for either side but could have had a minimum of say a week or two of "ghost training" in case ppl are having hard times as some are in the U.S.A. currently but as this is my last post since the GTC movement I just want to let you know CCP, it was fun while it lasted, your expansions being free was an awesome bonus to your pvp based game not to mention the depth to the game and the ever changing politics inside the game i just wish you the best of luck in the future with your game, and love to hear later on that perhaps others had read of my post and made a difference to influence the game in some way, the most important being listening to the customers as they're the ones who pay you're salaries and is the downfall of MMOs but besides that I'd like to hear of new areas added to the game. Well EVE this is Peace Out and love ya all, CARPE DIEM, err in my experience I should say Carpe Noctem my fellow eve fanatics, wish you luck in your adventures and peace out to the friends in DSKE and IRC.
|
Amarr Hyena
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 04:04:00 -
[3060]
I think with about 150 pages in a matter of at tops 2 days, we can say the PR people are completely incompetent. aside from a 'apology' (being comment 2773), locking two threads (offical anyway) and cloaking another they seem to have not done much to communicate with the playerbase. ------- ghost training Threadnaught V. Skills continue training even if you are logged off or if your account is inactive. |
|
ViolenTUK
Gallente Vindicated Exiles
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 04:04:00 -
[3061]
Here is another threadnought on this subject which was Subsequently locked.
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=896003
49 pages.
www.eve-players.com |
Alexander Ronay
Crushed Ambitions
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 04:10:00 -
[3062]
If they're going to disable ghost training, fine. They ****** up, they admitted it, fine. Least they can ******* do now is just let current unsubbed accounts that are ghost training complete their current skill.
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Liranan
M'8'S Frontal Impact
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Posted - 2008.10.15 04:11:00 -
[3063]
This is a record! Even the T20 and the 'DEATH TO CCP AND BOB' threadnoughts started by the goons a year ago didn't have this many posts in them! Farjung is my God
You people need to open your eyes and read threads before you mindlessly spam the New Thread link. |
fuxinos
Caldari Guys 0f Sarcasm
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 04:14:00 -
[3064]
truth > CCP
|
Mongo Loid
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.10.15 04:15:00 -
[3065]
Pointing out for the page 101 krew that CCP's "explanation" that ghost training causes non-trivial load is insultingly stupid unless they literally have the worst DBAs on earth. |
Jyce
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 04:20:00 -
[3066]
to be honest the only reson ive been coming back to eve was the hope that some day my character could do what others can, now when my account shuts off in a few days there will no reason to be turn it back on because it hasnt gone anywhere. i dont see how training while the account is suspended has anything to do with a unfair advantage. i think this move will lose alot more players than gain. the only reason i turned my account on this last time was to keep training. oh well darkfall will be out later this year was a fun three years
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Tae'Lin Hynd
Simply Planned
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Posted - 2008.10.15 04:23:00 -
[3067]
Originally by: Jyce to be honest the only reson ive been coming back to eve was the hope that some day my character could do what others can, now when my account shuts off in a few days there will no reason to be turn it back on because it hasnt gone anywhere. i dont see how training while the account is suspended has anything to do with a unfair advantage. i think this move will lose alot more players than gain. the only reason i turned my account on this last time was to keep training. oh well darkfall will be out later this year was a fun three years
It has more to do with CCPs GAME BREAKING GTC TRADES AND CHARACTER SELLING that are APPROVED CCP TRANSACTIONS.
Nothing more, nothing less.
CCP you are your own worst enemy.
|
Richard Aiel
Caldari Caldari Provisions
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 04:24:00 -
[3068]
These threads could be 1000 pages long and it wouldnt matter AT ALL. CCP is gonna do what CCP wants to do. They always do and be damned with the consequences. I think this might be their solutions for both Jita lag and the system population limits. Do something so monumentally stupid that craploads of ppl leave. Im beginning to believe that EVE was meant to be less a real game than a social experiment to hook ppl in, then abuse them as much as possible and see how much crap they will take before they all leave.
CCP you are your own worst enemy. |
Betteroff Dead
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 04:24:00 -
[3069]
Originally by: Jyce to be honest the only reson ive been coming back to eve was the hope that some day my character could do what others can, now when my account shuts off in a few days there will no reason to be turn it back on because it hasnt gone anywhere. i dont see how training while the account is suspended has anything to do with a unfair advantage. i think this move will lose alot more players than gain. the only reason i turned my account on this last time was to keep training. oh well darkfall will be out later this year was a fun three years
Yep, an a-unique aspect of EVE-Online
|
Cosy Ceaon
Gallente Aliastra
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 04:26:00 -
[3070]
Originally by: Betteroff Dead
Originally by: Jyce to be honest the only reson ive been coming back to eve was the hope that some day my character could do what others can, now when my account shuts off in a few days there will no reason to be turn it back on because it hasnt gone anywhere. i dont see how training while the account is suspended has anything to do with a unfair advantage. i think this move will lose alot more players than gain. the only reason i turned my account on this last time was to keep training. oh well darkfall will be out later this year was a fun three years
Yep, an a-unique aspect of EVE-Online
QFT
is a bug is a bug a buuuuuuuuuuuuug |
|
DJ Geist
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 04:28:00 -
[3071]
Edited by: DJ Geist on 15/10/2008 04:29:55 Edited by: DJ Geist on 15/10/2008 04:29:17 CCP's stated stance is that there should be no ghost training whatsoever.
A large segment of eve players think there should be ghost training as it has been thus far, i.e. when you're account expires, whatever skill you were training right before your account expired will continue until that skill is done training (regardless of the rank/length of time this takes)
So despite the fact that I place myself in the second camp, how about a compromise? Some posts have already suggested this.
I propose something like this.
- For any account that has expired, if the account has a skill that was training when the account expired, then that skill will continue training up to 2 weeks past the account expiration date.
This way, if people want continuity to their character, but go on a vacation (10 days or so), or have a particularly busy work project, or just forget to babysit their account details and miss when their account expired by a few days, or are poor students who want to be frugal and stretch out skill training as much as they can....
Then any of these people have something to look forward to when they return to Eve. They get a small perk and incentive for their return. They are given a reason, when they realize there has been a time lapse with their character (or if they planned it that way), to return to the game.
At the same time, this benefits CCP because it puts a cap on possible strategic powerlevel ghost trainers (to whatever extent such people exist - from what I've gathered in posts in this thread a large number of players have only taken advantage of ghost-training accidentally or periodically). In other words, this policy gives you some slack but does not let you plan out a way to train high rank skills for weeks/months for free.
Some reasons I think CCP should consider this:
1) It would make them money. Instead of cancelled or consolidated alt subscriptions, players have an incentive to continue separate accounts.
2) It would address the legitimate reasons why people ghost-train, while also nerfing what I suppose are abuses of ghost training (i.e. battleships V etc)
3) It would restore some of CCP's credibility and would also be a gesture to appease disgruntled players, which seems at a peak due to a few legitimate reasons: ----a) The announcement came suddenly and with no discussion ----b) Given a, the CSM seems like a token and empty gesture towards player/mngmnt relations. ----c) The ghost-training system seems to have been tacitly endorsed by CCP prior to nerf ----d) The nerf came right after power of 2, which is perceived as bait-and-switch ----e) The nerf came shortly after the end of 30 day GTC, which already messes with how players afford the game
fellow players, if you agree with this then please post that you do in this thread.
|
ISIAM
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 04:30:00 -
[3072]
Come on people are we just going to do what we always do and take it without the reach around. I know your not all already tired of the fight and just ready to give-in. we'll I say f*** that. Make some noise, If your not going to quit or if you are, don't go "quietly into the night." let them know for once. No matter weather you are for, or against this "FIX". It's starting to look like your opinions don't make any difference to C.C.P. and I for one am "Mad as hell, and I'm not going to take it anymore." I refuse to go out with out a Fight. Please, call write, or e-mail C.C.P. and demonstrate that you are here, and that you expect to be heard for your money. I'm am deeply afraid that should this pass with out even the slightest further debate you can kiss any hope of having any say; as we have had up till now. We May even see a snowballing effect. Like that of the real world economic situation were they don't get it, and it will be to late when it all crashes down around them. speak up, now or forever hold your peace. actions speak louder then words, so move.
|
Alcon Loxan
Gallente Paradox Inc.
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 04:30:00 -
[3073]
Just cancelled my account. Not going to make a big drama post. Will only say that I am saddened at the direction CCP seems to be taking this game. It is no longer that one shining beacon in a sea of cookie cutter MMO's.
Maybe I'll go play Everquest 2. At least SOE doesn't lie to its playerbase. Oh wait.....
|
Julius Kashmir
Caldari Dark Skullz Empire Intrepid Crossing
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 04:32:00 -
[3074]
Originally by: Richard Aiel These threads could be 1000 pages long and it wouldnt matter AT ALL. CCP is gonna do what CCP wants to do. They always do and be damned with the consequences. I think this might be their solutions for both Jita lag and the system population limits. Do something so monumentally stupid that craploads of ppl leave. Im beginning to believe that EVE was meant to be less a real game than a social experiment to hook ppl in, then abuse them as much as possible and see how much crap they will take before they all leave.
I don't think I could have said how I feel any better than that.
|
Shard Merchant
Minmatar
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 04:34:00 -
[3075]
Gentlemen, welcome to flavor country. _______________________________________________ CCP CENSORSHIP ALERT: CAN YOU SPOT IT? |
Julius Kashmir
Caldari Dark Skullz Empire Intrepid Crossing
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 04:37:00 -
[3076]
Originally by: ISIAM Come on people are we just going to do what we always do and take it without the reach around. I know your not all already tired of the fight and just ready to give-in. we'll I say f*** that. Make some noise, If your not going to quit or if you are, don't go "quietly into the night." let them know for once. No matter weather you are for, or against this "FIX". It's starting to look like your opinions don't make any difference to C.C.P. and I for one am "Mad as hell, and I'm not going to take it anymore." I refuse to go out with out a Fight. Please, call write, or e-mail C.C.P. and demonstrate that you are here, and that you expect to be heard for your money. I'm am deeply afraid that should this pass with out even the slightest further debate you can kiss any hope of having any say; as we have had up till now. We May even see a snowballing effect. Like that of the real world economic situation were they don't get it, and it will be to late when it all crashes down around them. speak up, now or forever hold your peace. actions speak louder then words, so move.
ISIAM we are giving them a piece of our mind, we who are quitting are telling CCP directly we don't approve of what they're doing to the game we once enjoyed and therefore refuse to pay them to continue to **** up a game w/o even listening to us, the playerbase which make their job possible. CCP kiss my ass goodbye, I'm deactivating 3 accounts, figure out for yourself why!
|
Tae'Lin Hynd
Simply Planned
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 04:39:00 -
[3077]
Edited by: Tae''Lin Hynd on 15/10/2008 04:43:41
Originally by: DJ Geist Edited by: DJ Geist on 15/10/2008 04:29:55 Edited by: DJ Geist on 15/10/2008 04:29:17 CCP's stated stance is that there should be no ghost training whatsoever.
A large segment of eve players think there should be ghost training as it has been thus far, i.e. when you're account expires, whatever skill you were training right before your account expired will continue until that skill is done training (regardless of the rank/length of time this takes)
So despite the fact that I place myself in the second camp, how about a compromise? Some posts have already suggested this.
I propose something like this.
- For any account that has expired, if the account has a skill that was training when the account expired, then that skill will continue training up to 2 weeks past the account expiration date.
This way, if people want continuity to their character, but go on a vacation (10 days or so), or have a particularly busy work project, or just forget to babysit their account details and miss when their account expired by a few days, or are poor students who want to be frugal and stretch out skill training as much as they can....
Then any of these people have something to look forward to when they return to Eve. They get a small perk and incentive for their return. They are given a reason, when they realize there has been a time lapse with their character (or if they planned it that way), to return to the game.
At the same time, this benefits CCP because it puts a cap on possible strategic powerlevel ghost trainers (to whatever extent such people exist - from what I've gathered in posts in this thread a large number of players have only taken advantage of ghost-training accidentally or periodically). In other words, this policy gives you some slack but does not let you plan out a way to train high rank skills for weeks/months for free.
Some reasons I think CCP should consider this:
1) It would make them money. Instead of cancelled or consolidated alt subscriptions, players have an incentive to continue separate accounts.
2) It would address the legitimate reasons why people ghost-train, while also nerfing what I suppose are abuses of ghost training (i.e. battleships V etc)
3) It would restore some of CCP's credibility and would also be a gesture to appease disgruntled players, which seems at a peak due to a few legitimate reasons: ----a) The announcement came suddenly and with no discussion ----b) Given a, the CSM seems like a token and empty gesture towards player/mngmnt relations. ----c) The ghost-training system seems to have been tacitly endorsed by CCP prior to nerf ----d) The nerf came right after power of 2, which is perceived as bait-and-switch ----e) The nerf came shortly after the end of 30 day GTC, which already messes with how players afford the game
fellow players, if you agree with this then please post that you do in this thread.
This. Solves ****ed players, to an extent (how many times are we gonna let you slide CCP?) Helps solve the Character farms (picture matrix if you will, cept instead of generating power, you simulating to get skills to sell to eager noobs and vets alike too impatient to grow their own) no more strain on your server, than if you were to make it so that implants register properly WHEN LOST (no more "Ghost Attributes") (kinda funny how a lot of players know of these things, that previous CCP employees knew of, and now the new CCP guys know not so when they find out about, it is now a BUG that needs to be eliminated.)
Also, while you tinkering with time stamps, fix "ghost" rp hoarders and "ghost" sell orders. You cant just change one thing, that is on the same system as other things, without changing those things as well. Only makes sense right?
|
ISIAM
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 04:41:00 -
[3078]
Originally by: Julius Kashmir
Originally by: ISIAM Come on people are we just going to do what we always do and take it without the reach around. I know your not all already tired of the fight and just ready to give-in. we'll I say f*** that. Make some noise, If your not going to quit or if you are, don't go "quietly into the night." let them know for once. No matter weather you are for, or against this "FIX". It's starting to look like your opinions don't make any difference to C.C.P. and I for one am "Mad as hell, and I'm not going to take it anymore." I refuse to go out with out a Fight. Please, call write, or e-mail C.C.P. and demonstrate that you are here, and that you expect to be heard for your money. I'm am deeply afraid that should this pass with out even the slightest further debate you can kiss any hope of having any say; as we have had up till now. We May even see a snowballing effect. Like that of the real world economic situation were they don't get it, and it will be to late when it all crashes down around them. speak up, now or forever hold your peace. actions speak louder then words, so move.
ISIAM we are giving them a piece of our mind, we who are quitting are telling CCP directly we don't approve of what they're doing to the game we once enjoyed and therefore refuse to pay them to continue to **** up a game w/o even listening to us, the playerbase which make their job possible. CCP kiss my ass goodbye, I'm deactivating 3 accounts, figure out for yourself why!
That's a great start, vote with your wallets and then write them a letter and say "you fu**ed up" and it sucks. the more you do the more they get the message. and thanks.
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Sean Forest
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 04:43:00 -
[3079]
And thats -3 accounts from me.
I'm like everyone else, I ran multiple accounts so I could experience the things I wanted to and support myself. I had a combat pilot and a hauler on one account, A miner and a support ship pilot on the second, and a trader and a second miner on the third. I used ghost training so when I was in a mining mood, I could just shunt my combat guy to a long training skill and focus on mining and hauling for a while. Same deal if I was in a combat phase. Theres no way I could justify to myself the $45 dollars a month it'd cost me to keep all 3 running permanently, it's just not worth it.
On the other hand, I was paying 30 per month, and 45 every 2-3 months (when I ran all 3), and all that money is going straight down the tubes for CCP because I just can't accept this change. I have a fulltime job and a girlfriend, both of which require large amounts of time to keep happy as we all know. As much as I may enjoy mining, fleet ops, and solo hunting, I can't do all 3 of those at once with my schedule, and without ghosting, I can't even keep all three of those character types at a competitive skill level.
This is just rediculous, you lie to us, you screw with us, and you think we will just roll over and take it... well not me.
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HuntedMaster
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 04:44:00 -
[3080]
Originally by: Julius Kashmir
Originally by: ISIAM Come on people are we just going to do what we always do and take it without the reach around. I know your not all already tired of the fight and just ready to give-in. we'll I say f*** that. Make some noise, If your not going to quit or if you are, don't go "quietly into the night." let them know for once. No matter weather you are for, or against this "FIX". It's starting to look like your opinions don't make any difference to C.C.P. and I for one am "Mad as hell, and I'm not going to take it anymore." I refuse to go out with out a Fight. Please, call write, or e-mail C.C.P. and demonstrate that you are here, and that you expect to be heard for your money. I'm am deeply afraid that should this pass with out even the slightest further debate you can kiss any hope of having any say; as we have had up till now. We May even see a snowballing effect. Like that of the real world economic situation were they don't get it, and it will be to late when it all crashes down around them. speak up, now or forever hold your peace. actions speak louder then words, so move.
ISIAM we are giving them a piece of our mind, we who are quitting are telling CCP directly we don't approve of what they're doing to the game we once enjoyed and therefore refuse to pay them to continue to **** up a game w/o even listening to us, the playerbase which make their job possible. CCP kiss my ass goodbye, I'm deactivating 3 accounts, figure out for yourself why!
cause there stupid community hateing nerfers?
im right arnt i?
wheres my god damn cookie.
|
|
Shard Merchant
Minmatar
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 04:46:00 -
[3081]
You guys are making requests, showing alternative methods, trying to compromise trade-offs, and all that good stuff. Good luck with that, you have... until downtime.
But on the positive side, ~200 thread pages in two days, gotta be some kinda record. Maybe they'll have a certificate for that? Elite Drama Llama Specialization or some such.
_______________________________________________ CCP CENSORSHIP ALERT: CAN YOU SPOT IT? |
Zamolxiss
Amarr FinFleet Band of Brothers
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 04:47:00 -
[3082]
Goddamnit CCP
Now why the **** would you **** us like this !?
You need money !? ok, there are alot of other ways to get more money besides this one, diversify your account types, make it posible for us to train more characters on a single account and ask more money for it, could be one.. i DO NOT WANT to have 6 accounts, but i DO WANT to play this game the best i can and that leaves me/us no choice..
So given the nature of EVE i as many others that play the game to it's limits until we crash your servers... and even tho they allways crash, and even tho yuo're GM's are clueless and ridiculous to such extent that i don't even bother with petitions anymore ("our logs show nothing" anyone !?)... we're still logging in the next day... those of us that do that, need more that one character.. it's the way you wanted it to be, the way you built it.. it's what you wanted us to do... and we did it... a shitload of us have a shitload of accounts each.. we did that because the cost/opportunity equation was acceptable, now after many of us own more eve accounts than bank accounts, you change the cost/opportunity equation.. so tell me, will you be able ask for any trust and respect from any of us from now on ?
I truly belive that most of you people lack any basic understanding of the game and more important, you are clueless regarding your player base..
What type of players do you think this change will affect !? the most important one, those that are here every ****ing day, and have been for years.. the hardcore players.. witch given the nature of this game ARE NOT KIDS, people that have rl commitments people that can be rather bussy and unavailable from time to time but also people that tend to come back because they HAVE SOMETHING TO LOOK FORWARD TO.. now they won't because a sain individual will not pay rl money just to train skills.. those that will pay are the farmers that have allways payed with isk, the game and theyr rl expenses
More so i don't think we as players have the same perspective or understanding of the game as you do... because you seem to be thinking that you have a perfect product, and no compromise what so ever needs to be made to sell it.. well i don't think so... i never did, and most of the people i know in game see things somewhat the same way i do.. This thing you call ghost training was here to compensate to some extent for the absolutely ridiculous and absurd character progressin process..
Tbh CCP, looking back i can honestly say that the costs in both money and far more important TIME, far exceed the enjoyment and the satisfaction i've got from EVE
I won't threaten with accounts cancelation and this sort of shit.. that's for kids, the decision regarding that was made long before, this is just an excuse, as good as any other, and it came now..
I wish you all the best, EVE has the potential to be an extraordinary game but for some reason you never seem to make the right steps ahead..
Zam
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ISIAM
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 04:47:00 -
[3083]
Come on people are we just going to do what we always do and take it without the reach around. I know your not all already tired of the fight and just ready to give-in. we'll I say f*** that. Make some noise, If your not going to quit or if you are, don't go "quietly into the night." let them know for once. No matter weather you are for, or against this "FIX". It's starting to look like your opinions don't make any difference to C.C.P. and I for one am "Mad as hell, and I'm not going to take it anymore." I refuse to go out with out a Fight. Please, call write, or e-mail C.C.P. and demonstrate that you are here, and that you expect to be heard for your money. I am deeply afraid that should this pass with out even the slightest further debate you can kiss any hope of having any say; as we have had up till now. We May even see a snowballing effect. Like that of the real world economic situation were they don't get it, and it will be to late when it all crashes down around them. speak up, now or forever hold your peace. actions speak louder then words, so move.
|
HuntedMaster
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 04:49:00 -
[3084]
Edited by: HuntedMaster on 15/10/2008 04:49:15
Originally by: Shard Merchant You guys are making requests, showing alternative methods, trying to compromise trade-offs, and all that good stuff. Good luck with that, you have... until downtime.
But on the positive side, ~200 thread pages in two days, gotta be some kinda record. Maybe they'll have a certificate for that? Elite Drama Llama Specialization or some such.
mabye they could call one '' i use to have an alt but then i had to sell my house to pay for it'' certificate..
but you probably need 6 level 5 skills for that...
I was going to ghost them...
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Tae'Lin Hynd
Simply Planned
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 04:50:00 -
[3085]
Originally by: HuntedMaster
Originally by: Julius Kashmir
Originally by: ISIAM Come on people are we just going to do what we always do and take it without the reach around. I know your not all already tired of the fight and just ready to give-in. we'll I say f*** that. Make some noise, If your not going to quit or if you are, don't go "quietly into the night." let them know for once. No matter weather you are for, or against this "FIX". It's starting to look like your opinions don't make any difference to C.C.P. and I for one am "Mad as hell, and I'm not going to take it anymore." I refuse to go out with out a Fight. Please, call write, or e-mail C.C.P. and demonstrate that you are here, and that you expect to be heard for your money. I'm am deeply afraid that should this pass with out even the slightest further debate you can kiss any hope of having any say; as we have had up till now. We May even see a snowballing effect. Like that of the real world economic situation were they don't get it, and it will be to late when it all crashes down around them. speak up, now or forever hold your peace. actions speak louder then words, so move.
ISIAM we are giving them a piece of our mind, we who are quitting are telling CCP directly we don't approve of what they're doing to the game we once enjoyed and therefore refuse to pay them to continue to **** up a game w/o even listening to us, the playerbase which make their job possible. CCP kiss my ass goodbye, I'm deactivating 3 accounts, figure out for yourself why!
cause there stupid community hateing nerfers?
im right arnt i?
wheres my god damn cookie.
they are changing a core game feature, (now bug) and they left us less then 48 hours to digest a one liner. They are leaving features, that are on the same type of reward (accumilation through time) They won't FIX REAL ISSUES THEY LIE THEN LIE ABOUT THE LIE THAT THEY SWEPT UNDER THE RUG they continually non-verbally BASH us. yes threads like the one fallout started and the followup ones, were an insult to those of us that understand you are pulling a fast one here. if you told us the real reasons for the drastic changes to the game GTC(not affecting me but i understand) 48 hour notice like this was all of a sudden an emergency (how long has legit toon transfers been going on? <--that there is more likely the reason of them all) Take away the toon transfer, and leave the way the game was, has, and should be. Make it less appealing in another way to be a toon farmer.
You are pulling a cusion out from under a lot of peoples rear ends by doing this. and doing it the way you did, is like you stuck a tack there to laugh at us as it breaks through the skin.
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Gabriel Virtus
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Posted - 2008.10.15 04:51:00 -
[3086]
Edited by: Gabriel Virtus on 15/10/2008 04:57:43 The fact that you try and present this as a unintended bug is a complete joke. This was a presented as a selling point of the game, and a reason to subscribe another account. I know CCP is pretty slow to respond to bugs, but a not responding 5 year bug is complete crap and you all know it. When I first started, this was a huge reason why I started playing the game because when real life came up, I could still come back 14 days later to a character to had progressed. It seemed integral in the reason that ALL ACCOUNTS TRAIN AT THE SAME TIME no matter how much they are actively played.
It is not like people are not paying for years on end, they are not subscribing to train 45 day skills. It is not like you are losing tons of money because of this. People would let accounts run out for 6 days to finish a long skill and then resubscribe for another month.
You seem to not comment on how ppl would buy month long subscriptions as opposed to 6 month subscriptions in bulk with the discount. I bet you generally make money on this feature of the game. Moral of the story is that this feature was a selling point of the game and you magically decided to change this all of the sudden after years-long commitments by players.
You all are lying trash. Don't make something a selling point that you are going to remove. You will end up being hurt by this. You just lost 3 accounts, I hope this business plan is working well for you. Just admit you are money whoring and don't bullshit your users. Peace, WoW and Warhammer treat their subscribers much better.
-GV
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Cazzah
Caldari Eve University Ivy League
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Posted - 2008.10.15 04:53:00 -
[3087]
I agree ISIAM. Let us continue to make our voices heard. Even after the patch has been pushed through.
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ISIAM
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Posted - 2008.10.15 04:55:00 -
[3088]
Originally by: Cazzah I agree ISIAM. Let us continue to make our voices heard. Even after the patch has been pushed through.
That's what I want to hear.
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Stormaar
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.10.15 04:55:00 -
[3089]
Death to the salad eaters!!! (c)
CCP!! Hands off from "GHOST's" ----- Customizable UI / internal API for mods/addons |
Lobster Man
Metafarmers
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 04:56:00 -
[3090]
Edited by: Lobster Man on 15/10/2008 05:01:55 Edited by: Lobster Man on 15/10/2008 05:00:39 I made a post earlier, agreeing with CCP on this matter, but I'd like to revise my statement a bit.
This policy of "no ghost training" would have been perfectly acceptable if it were enforced more or less from the beginning of eve. It's been stated that it is a game policy and would be perfectly acceptable if some consideration had actually been taken on CCP's part (yet it seems that they don't consider very often on behalf of their customer-base).
For almost 5 years now this has been a known, and so far as we know, not-unintended game feature. Then almost without notice, CCP goes and makes a largely detrimental change to the game seemingly without regard to the players. If this had been stated from the beginning (almost 5 years ago), that ghost training was not intended and would have been dealt with back when 95% of eve's other issues should also have been dealt with, that would have been fine and dandy. I do not, however think it is reasonable to spring something like this on the player base with no warning after such a long time of it being more or less acceptable.
Please CCP, if you do not change this particular decision, actually try to learn something from it (for once ) and do your best not to **** off the majority of your paying customers in the future. If you cannot seem to handle this simple request (as it's growing more and more evident that you're not), fewer and fewer people will put up with such policies and "decreasing the server's load" may no longer be a problem to be solved.
|
|
Cosy Ceaon
Gallente Aliastra
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 04:57:00 -
[3091]
Originally by: ISIAM Come on people are we just going to do what we always do and take it without the reach around. I know your not all already tired of the fight and just ready to give-in. we'll I say f*** that. Make some noise, If your not going to quit or if you are, don't go "quietly into the night." let them know for once. No matter weather you are for, or against this "FIX". It's starting to look like your opinions don't make any difference to C.C.P. and I for one am "Mad as hell, and I'm not going to take it anymore." I refuse to go out with out a Fight. Please, call write, or e-mail C.C.P. and demonstrate that you are here, and that you expect to be heard for your money. I am deeply afraid that should this pass with out even the slightest further debate you can kiss any hope of having any say; as we have had up till now. We May even see a snowballing effect. Like that of the real world economic situation were they don't get it, and it will be to late when it all crashes down around them. speak up, now or forever hold your peace. actions speak louder then words, so move.
/signed
is a bug is a bug a buuuuuuuuuuuuug |
DRACO selen
Dark Rising Shadow Executive Outcomes
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 04:57:00 -
[3092]
"if you want your character to progress in EVE, you should pay the subscription fee." Mining, pvping, making isk was possible while being offline? When i'm playing i'm paying, if i'm not playing I dont wanna pay; simple?
btw gtc prices (those you can buy for isk) will raise up (they already did a a few hundret million) and many ppl have to stop playing.
all at all I consider it as another fail. recent fails of ccp? Look at the timers log's tell me 3 different times, when my ship was exploding. But they are 10000% accurate...
_____________ The feture became a bug; oh wait..
|
HuntedMaster
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 04:57:00 -
[3093]
Edited by: HuntedMaster on 15/10/2008 04:58:27
Originally by: Cazzah I agree ISIAM. Let us continue to make our voices heard. Even after the patch has been pushed through.
I dont see any reason for the thread to discontinue at all even after the ninja ass pound patch...
could be like a chronicle of ''when CCP goes bad'' or '' the day the fun ended ''
|
CIA1
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 05:01:00 -
[3094]
"Hell no we won't go!. Hell no we won't go!." and "Attica!,Attica!,Atica!" Done with Tirane and ti rents alike.
|
ISIAM
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 05:04:00 -
[3095]
Originally by: HuntedMaster Edited by: HuntedMaster on 15/10/2008 04:58:27
Originally by: Cazzah I agree ISIAM. Let us continue to make our voices heard. Even after the patch has been pushed through.
I dont see any reason for the thread to discontinue at all even after the ninja ass pound patch...
could be like a chronicle of ''when CCP goes bad'' or '' the day the fun ended ''
But, remember there are many outlets for our outrage.
|
HuntedMaster
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 05:04:00 -
[3096]
so if i start a new alt on a free trial he wont get to train anything for the first two weeks right? , since im not paying and all..
or do you only break that to new players after they subscribe?..
just wondering.
|
James Marshalll
Gallente
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 05:04:00 -
[3097]
Originally by: DRACO selen "if you want your character to progress in EVE, you should pay the subscription fee." Mining, pvping, making isk was possible while being offline? When i'm playing i'm paying, if i'm not playing I dont wanna pay; simple?
btw gtc prices (those you can buy for isk) will raise up (they already did a a few hundret million) and many ppl have to stop playing.
all at all I consider it as another fail. recent fails of ccp? Look at the timers log's tell me 3 different times, when my ship was exploding. But they are 10000% accurate...
thats a feature, didn't you know? With the "bandwith" they are going to save on ghost trainers "lulz" they implemented a new system that predetermines your death and gives you your insurance 10s before you are dead. Its a hot new thing.. trust us, you will love it.
|
HuntedMaster
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 05:07:00 -
[3098]
Originally by: James Marshalll
Originally by: DRACO selen "if you want your character to progress in EVE, you should pay the subscription fee." Mining, pvping, making isk was possible while being offline? When i'm playing i'm paying, if i'm not playing I dont wanna pay; simple?
btw gtc prices (those you can buy for isk) will raise up (they already did a a few hundret million) and many ppl have to stop playing.
all at all I consider it as another fail. recent fails of ccp? Look at the timers log's tell me 3 different times, when my ship was exploding. But they are 10000% accurate...
thats a feature, didn't you know? With the "bandwith" they are going to save on ghost trainers "lulz" they implemented a new system that predetermines your death and gives you your insurance 10s before you are dead. Its a hot new thing.. trust us, you will love it.
I allready love it because ''they'' told me i have too.
|
ISIAM
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 05:08:00 -
[3099]
'' the day the fun ended '' Maybe, I hope not but we shall see
|
CornerStoner
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 05:10:00 -
[3100]
Advice for CCP: "punt"
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|
Saleswoman Sarah
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 05:11:00 -
[3101]
Originally by: SSgt Sniper
Originally by: CCP t0rfifrans The bug that became a feature
On Monday, we released news that we are disabling äGhost Trainingô, the ability to train characters on inactive accounts. This resulted in strong reactions from the community as many people were routinely making use of it. We explained the matter in more detail and pointed out that this had been a bug in the original game code. Those of us who were involved in the process of making the decision and communicating it to the community did not realize this bug had been so accepted as a feature that it was listed as such in our own documentation on our own website.
How can we not know whatæs in our own documentation? Well, to be frank, it was a case of insufficient communication on our part between various teams û a regrettable mistake and hard lesson to learn at the expense of the trust youæve placed in us. Thereæs no way to spin it and we wonæt add insult to injury by trying to do so. It was a mistake on our part and for that we sincerely and humbly apologize.
Many would hope that in light of this we will decide not to cancel ghost training and keep it active as an option but weære cannot to do that. EVE is already one-of-a-kind in allowing players to progress their characters through offline skill training. We stand by our policy that if you want your character to progress in EVE, you should pay the subscription fee. The fact that so many people have been able to do so for several years was our own oversight. We know this change, and our misstep in telling you about it, has created some discontent and we hope that over time we can prove our committment to make EVE better than ever for you will be evident as you enjoy the fruits of our labor.
Torfi
I realize the need to save corporate face in your apology and will choose to accept the intent of it. Thank you for that. I however believe you are making a mistake in your reasoning process- see I don't think people are abusing this intentionally but as a side effect of another business decision you made recently.
Removing the 30 day cards made it much harder for people to keep thier accounts all active on a budget, and I believe this is why so many accounts are currently inactive. I do not believe that the ghost train feature factors into most of these accountholders decision at all, rather an inability to afford keeping them all running at the now higher cost. Thus I believe your logic regarding what to do about it now is flawed.
If you persist on removing the ghost train feature, I can accept that- I never really cared about it's existance as much as the the poor way you were handling the removal decision. I hope you will consider these things:
1. Please bring back the 30day gtc. I feel this will actually fix a lot of the recent financial hit you've taken as some people will be able to have alts return to active state.
2. Push this change for 30 days. Basically give time for everyone struggling with thier own finances the time to figure out and adjust to this change in a manner that makes the best sense for them and for you.
3. Admit the financial hurt you are dealing with yourself- I swear, if you do this I will personally buy two etc and give them away as I do like the game (if not your handling of it from time to time) and would like to help, if only you'd just be honest about it.
4. As a give back to those still upset about this, either A. bring in skillqueue, or B. Allow slot 2 and slot 3 to train skills at a oh, let's say a 30% and 15% rate respectively.
I will be keeping an eye on things for a while before I make my final decision on reactivation as I have until May to decide either way. If you take some positive steps toward the community as atonement, I'll get back on board. If not, I'll shop around when the time comes.
Understand that at no point did I care about the feature's existance itself, just the poor handling of the subject.
This.
|
Kriegarman
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 05:13:00 -
[3102]
Whats the betting that the CCP servers get DDoS'd attacked within the next week?
and the amount of hate mail viruses lol xD
Bad move CCP. I use 1 account. usually active. i have ghost trained 1 skill. Heavy drones V. due to the recent economic crash i will have to ghost train again
owait i cant. cheers.
you will loose a lot of isk from alt chars not being activated. congratulations on cutting your profits! your doing better than the icelandic banks at retaining money. If i had shares i would be selling them about now. i predict a sharp fall in your profits, by about 20% of total subscribers money every 3 months.
Seriously, what did you hope to accomplish? do you think we are morons? you want more money. its not working!
How about, to free up the database, delete accounts that go over 6 months inactive? huh? the first 4 trial accounts I created are still there ffs. they STILL haven't been removed after almost 2 years of being there.
I will still be playing regardless at the moment as I only have 1 account, however i was considering creating an alt to ghost train, which would have, over 3 months been subscribed for 1 1/2 - 2 months of that 3 months, meaning more money for you on an "active" account instead of all the accounts that have not been logged into for over a year or so.
you dont even give the option to delete inactive accounts. we have to PAY to delete them. how stupid is that? security? i dont think so.
Bad move.
btw gief stuff pl0x ^^ :P
o7 Kriegarman
This is not a statement from my corp/alliance (but i bet most of them are thinking the same thing)
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BIind
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 05:13:00 -
[3103]
Originally by: CCP t0rfifrans EVE is already one-of-a-kind in allowing players to progress their characters through offline skill training.
It's also one-of-a-kind in that it takes years of character progress and several accounts to get somewhere.
|
Asperoth
Caldari Unwakeable Nightmare
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 05:14:00 -
[3104]
This will cost you a lot of subscribers. This move along with the idiotic time card move some months ago does nothing but anger and alienate your player base. You lose much and gain almost nothing.
Better to have someone who pays 6 to 8 months out of the year compared to 0. When you force a players hand like this, they are more likely to walk away to one of your many competitors. I have 10 accounts with you guys. 7 or 8 are subbed almost year round with a few that go inactive from time to time. The timing and tone of this announcement has me really questioning whether I still wish to be a customer any longer.
There are a lot of MMO choices out there today compared to when Eve first launched 5+ years ago and new ones launch nearly monthly now. If you can't see how this is only going to result in the overall player base shrinking along with your revenues, then there really is no hope you will get your act together in other areas to fix the REAL issues that exist within this game.
------------------------------------------------ I have gone to look for myself. If I get back before I return, please ask me to wait. |
Warmonger Axebourne
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 05:15:00 -
[3105]
Edited by: Warmonger Axebourne on 15/10/2008 05:20:57 Ghost training is basically players training without paying. If you forget to set the next skill, or if that skill finished while you were sleeping, you are paying without training. I think the two balance out nicely.
If the cost of the subscription was lower you would find ghost training to be an actual exploit. As mentioned before - I too get burned out, bored, real life intrudes, or I just loose interest in seeing how many ISK I can earn per hour. It makes it far easier to come back knowing I will have finished level 5 in something I would never have bothered to train otherwise. I don't like to watch grass grow and I don't like waiting for a level 5 skill to train so I wait until I get burned out, set one to train and let my account lapse. The amazing thing is that just about the time that skill finishes I get the EVE bug and I'm back with my new level 5 skill.
I don't think CCP is loosing by giving players a little free training time. You still can't PLAY EvE without PAYING no matter how high your skills get! Lets go back to the way it was and act like it never happened and I promise not to say anything about it ever again.
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Operator alpha
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 05:15:00 -
[3106]
Edited by: Operator alpha on 15/10/2008 05:15:34 Its very sad that Eve is not "for gamers by gamers" game anymore as we can see changes of the last year.. Its going to be one of many casual MMO. We just need to wait for competing projects to be created. I think that Eve was the first of such kind but not last.
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Carniflex
Caldari StarHunt Fallout Project
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 05:15:00 -
[3107]
Oh well. Was nice while it lasted. On the long run it will be propabaly change in the better direction, lowering the amount of people who have level 5 in some 'long' skills just bcos they are 'staggering' their sub between 2 accounts.
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Annaphera
Minmatar Super Green Industries
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 05:15:00 -
[3108]
Originally by: Lobster Man Edited by: Lobster Man on 15/10/2008 05:01:55 Edited by: Lobster Man on 15/10/2008 05:00:39 I made a post earlier, agreeing with CCP on this matter, but I'd like to revise my statement a bit.
This policy of "no ghost training" would have been perfectly acceptable if it were enforced more or less from the beginning of eve. It's been stated that it is a game policy and would be perfectly acceptable if some consideration had actually been taken on CCP's part (yet it seems that they don't consider very often on behalf of their customer-base).
The EULA and ToS say that CCP can change the game whenever, and however, they wish. Frankly, I don't see how CCP didn't take the customers into consideration...I'm sure they thought long and hard about the pro's and con's of this (yeah, yeah, let me live with my illusions). In any case, they decided it was best for the game as a whole if this ended, and they have access to more info about it. I'm inclined to give them the benefit of the doubt and see how things go, rather than make the assumption they just don't like us, as some have.
Originally by: Lobster Man For almost 5 years now this has been a known, and so far as we know, not-unintended game feature.
A few people that were around for the beta seem to remember otherwise (on the 'not-unintended')
Originally by: Lobster Man Then almost without notice, CCP goes and makes a largely detrimental change to the game seemingly without regard to the players.
Just out of curiosity...what would you have said if they had given you two weeks notice? What would you have done differently?
Originally by: Lobster Man If this had been stated from the beginning (almost 5 years ago), that ghost training was not intended and would have been dealt with back when 95% of eve's other issues should also have been dealt with, that would have been fine and dandy. I do not, however think it is reasonable to spring something like this on the player base with no warning after such a long time of it being more or less acceptable.
And if they had told us from the beginning about the T2 BPO lotto, many people would have beenh more prepared to take advantage...and if they had said it would be limited time only, a LOT more people would have jumped on it. Hard to predict how one thing might become overpowered/abused and have to be removed or modified.
Originally by: Lobster Man Please CCP, if you do not change this particular decision, actually try to learn something from it (for once ) and do your best not to **** off the majority of your paying customers in the future. If you cannot seem to handle this simple request (as it's growing more and more evident that you're not), fewer and fewer people will put up with such policies and "decreasing the server's load" may no longer be a problem to be solved.
They seem to have ****ed off the majority of forum goers...and I have to wonder how many in favor or neutral aren't posting because they see the futility in it. Most of the people I've talked to in game, even those who have used it, don't really seem to care too much. The majority you seem to think exists, I think is a ghost...
|
ISIAM
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 05:17:00 -
[3109]
Okey all, my Time draws near. Copy what I have said, put it everywhere or write your own oratory. But, what ever you do, don't stop till they get the message or Iceland sinks. Viva La Revolution'
|
Mar Drakar
LDK Kraftwerk.
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 05:22:00 -
[3110]
this is fail on a big scale. In the end they will see it biting them in the ass when farmers leave and noone buys GTC since they are soo expensive. so ccp you fuked up big time, mode gtfo of this thread and get execs in here, in any case you can do sh it about it and neeone cares what you think, get execs t oread, or send all the posts to their printer of their cabinets... let them mtfking choke with shit they spill -- Make your life worth dying. CEO LDK |
|
Besrezen Kantos
Trade Guild Inperium
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 05:24:00 -
[3111]
Originally by: Ishbuanium
Originally by: Aliedora
Originally by: younub
Originally by: Shard Merchant To recap..
- Release a short news bit regarding widespread and significant change that would occur in 48 hours.
- Buried with other news minutes later.
- 50 pages of posting follow, discussing the legitimacy of this change as per the reasons given.
- Locked 50 pages of posts because a blog was posted, that repeats the same message.
- Dev blog mentions the 'business side' of this move, which the news post omitted.
- 70 pages of new postings follow.
- Thread disappears from Information Portal. Players find it and continue posting.
- Player guide gets edited to remove controversial remarks.
Without discussing the removal of "ghost training" specifically, what we have here is an attempt to pull a fast one on the players. It is easily the biggest attempted ninja nerf in the history of this game. Your customers deserve:
- More than two days of warning, so they can find out about the changes and plan accordingly
- More visible warning, like the login screen MOTD
- More transparency and honesty about the reasons by discussing all the reasons
Hard decisions are always hard, but how you handle them determines if you gain or lose respect. The player is going to feel screwed by changes that affect them poorly, and this is the equivalent of adding insult to injury.
A lot of people are willing to defend this company regardless of what they do (4S name change, t20 scandal), but this community was built on a common respect for the makers of this game even if they didn't always agree. That was eons ago.
You might not see a dip in subscriber counts, but you'll see an increase in player churn that requires more marketing money to support. You not only lose massive amounts of free word of mouth advertising, but scare away players with the amount of ex-EVE types that leave disgruntled at something you did.
quoting this becouse im down
QFT
QFT
QFT
|
fuxinos
Caldari Guys 0f Sarcasm
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 05:25:00 -
[3112]
Edited by: fuxinos on 15/10/2008 05:26:15 lies have small legs.
|
CIA1
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 05:26:00 -
[3113]
"FREEDOOOOM"
|
Julius Kashmir
Caldari Dark Skullz Empire Intrepid Crossing
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 05:26:00 -
[3114]
Originally by: ISIAM Okey all, my Time draws near. Copy what I have said, put it everywhere or write your own oratory. But, what ever you do, don't stop till they get the message or Iceland sinks. Viva La Revolution'
I may not have flown w/ you in-game but I can say it would have been a pleasure ISIAM as I can see we have the same style as aparent from your post here. If you log on again in-game message me an email:P o.0 so instead lets part together from this once great game now deprived of care and be rid of this once and for all.
|
ISIAM
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 05:28:00 -
[3115]
Originally by: Julius Kashmir
Originally by: ISIAM Okey all, my Time draws near. Copy what I have said, put it everywhere or write your own oratory. But, what ever you do, don't stop till they get the message or Iceland sinks. Viva La Revolution'
I may not have flown w/ you in-game but I can say it would have been a pleasure ISIAM as I can see we have the same style as aparent from your post here. If you log on again in-game message me an email:P o.0 so instead lets part together from this once great game now deprived of care and be rid of this once and for all.
Gladly my comrade
|
Triksterism
Gallente Frozen Corpse Inspection Services United Federation of Capsuleers
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 05:30:00 -
[3116]
Originally by: Julius Kashmir
Originally by: ISIAM Okey all, my Time draws near. Copy what I have said, put it everywhere or write your own oratory. But, what ever you do, don't stop till they get the message or Iceland sinks. Viva La Revolution'
I may not have flown w/ you in-game but I can say it would have been a pleasure ISIAM as I can see we have the same style as aparent from your post here. If you log on again in-game message me an email:P o.0 so instead lets part together from this once great game now deprived of care and be rid of this once and for all.
Forum comrades unite! :) -
Ghost Train & Snowflake |
Cosy Ceaon
Gallente Aliastra
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 05:31:00 -
[3117]
Originally by: Besrezen Kantos
Originally by: Ishbuanium
Originally by: Aliedora
Originally by: younub
Originally by: Shard Merchant To recap..
- Release a short news bit regarding widespread and significant change that would occur in 48 hours.
- Buried with other news minutes later.
- 50 pages of posting follow, discussing the legitimacy of this change as per the reasons given.
- Locked 50 pages of posts because a blog was posted, that repeats the same message.
- Dev blog mentions the 'business side' of this move, which the news post omitted.
- 70 pages of new postings follow.
- Thread disappears from Information Portal. Players find it and continue posting.
- Player guide gets edited to remove controversial remarks.
Without discussing the removal of "ghost training" specifically, what we have here is an attempt to pull a fast one on the players. It is easily the biggest attempted ninja nerf in the history of this game. Your customers deserve:
- More than two days of warning, so they can find out about the changes and plan accordingly
- More visible warning, like the login screen MOTD
- More transparency and honesty about the reasons by discussing all the reasons
Hard decisions are always hard, but how you handle them determines if you gain or lose respect. The player is going to feel screwed by changes that affect them poorly, and this is the equivalent of adding insult to injury.
A lot of people are willing to defend this company regardless of what they do (4S name change, t20 scandal), but this community was built on a common respect for the makers of this game even if they didn't always agree. That was eons ago.
You might not see a dip in subscriber counts, but you'll see an increase in player churn that requires more marketing money to support. You not only lose massive amounts of free word of mouth advertising, but scare away players with the amount of ex-EVE types that leave disgruntled at something you did.
quoting this becouse im down
QFT
QFT
QFT
QFT
is a bug is a bug a buuuuuuuuuuuuug |
Julius Kashmir
Caldari Dark Skullz Empire Intrepid Crossing
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 05:31:00 -
[3118]
Originally by: Cosy Ceaon
Originally by: Besrezen Kantos
Originally by: Ishbuanium
Originally by: Aliedora
Originally by: younub
Originally by: Shard Merchant To recap..
- Release a short news bit regarding widespread and significant change that would occur in 48 hours.
- Buried with other news minutes later.
- 50 pages of posting follow, discussing the legitimacy of this change as per the reasons given.
- Locked 50 pages of posts because a blog was posted, that repeats the same message.
- Dev blog mentions the 'business side' of this move, which the news post omitted.
- 70 pages of new postings follow.
- Thread disappears from Information Portal. Players find it and continue posting.
- Player guide gets edited to remove controversial remarks.
Without discussing the removal of "ghost training" specifically, what we have here is an attempt to pull a fast one on the players. It is easily the biggest attempted ninja nerf in the history of this game. Your customers deserve:
- More than two days of warning, so they can find out about the changes and plan accordingly
- More visible warning, like the login screen MOTD
- More transparency and honesty about the reasons by discussing all the reasons
Hard decisions are always hard, but how you handle them determines if you gain or lose respect. The player is going to feel screwed by changes that affect them poorly, and this is the equivalent of adding insult to injury.
A lot of people are willing to defend this company regardless of what they do (4S name change, t20 scandal), but this community was built on a common respect for the makers of this game even if they didn't always agree. That was eons ago.
You might not see a dip in subscriber counts, but you'll see an increase in player churn that requires more marketing money to support. You not only lose massive amounts of free word of mouth advertising, but scare away players with the amount of ex-EVE types that leave disgruntled at something you did.
quoting this becouse im down
QFT
QFT
QFT
QFT
|
Lusulpher
Raddick Explorations BlackWater.
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 05:33:00 -
[3119]
Edited by: Lusulpher on 15/10/2008 05:34:16 This will kill macrominers and ratters ghost-training level Vs... \o/
It's a game feature! Maybe block level IVs/Vs and from running past subscription end and re-institute this unique feature?
We get our cake and eat it too. You get your much needed-money...Servers don't run on wishes children. Especially the new ones they are building.
Give us our skill queue as a hostage tradeoff.
We all win.
P.S: PLAY WITH YOUR MAIN! Live and Let Die...All of it...null |
Julius Reyon
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 05:36:00 -
[3120]
Originally by: Julius Kashmir
Originally by: Cosy Ceaon
Originally by: Besrezen Kantos
Originally by: Ishbuanium
Originally by: Aliedora
Originally by: younub
Originally by: Shard Merchant To recap..
- Release a short news bit regarding widespread and significant change that would occur in 48 hours.
- Buried with other news minutes later.
- 50 pages of posting follow, discussing the legitimacy of this change as per the reasons given.
- Locked 50 pages of posts because a blog was posted, that repeats the same message.
- Dev blog mentions the 'business side' of this move, which the news post omitted.
- 70 pages of new postings follow.
- Thread disappears from Information Portal. Players find it and continue posting.
- Player guide gets edited to remove controversial remarks.
Without discussing the removal of "ghost training" specifically, what we have here is an attempt to pull a fast one on the players. It is easily the biggest attempted ninja nerf in the history of this game. Your customers deserve:
- More than two days of warning, so they can find out about the changes and plan accordingly
- More visible warning, like the login screen MOTD
- More transparency and honesty about the reasons by discussing all the reasons
Hard decisions are always hard, but how you handle them determines if you gain or lose respect. The player is going to feel screwed by changes that affect them poorly, and this is the equivalent of adding insult to injury.
A lot of people are willing to defend this company regardless of what they do (4S name change, t20 scandal), but this community was built on a common respect for the makers of this game even if they didn't always agree. That was eons ago.
You might not see a dip in subscriber counts, but you'll see an increase in player churn that requires more marketing money to support. You not only lose massive amounts of free word of mouth advertising, but scare away players with the amount of ex-EVE types that leave disgruntled at something you did.
quoting this becouse im down
QFT
QFT
QFT
QFT
|
|
urdeath007
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 05:36:00 -
[3121]
Originally by: Julius Reyon
Originally by: Julius Kashmir
Originally by: Cosy Ceaon
Originally by: Besrezen Kantos
Originally by: Ishbuanium
Originally by: Aliedora
Originally by: younub
Originally by: Shard Merchant To recap..
- Release a short news bit regarding widespread and significant change that would occur in 48 hours.
- Buried with other news minutes later.
- 50 pages of posting follow, discussing the legitimacy of this change as per the reasons given.
- Locked 50 pages of posts because a blog was posted, that repeats the same message.
- Dev blog mentions the 'business side' of this move, which the news post omitted.
- 70 pages of new postings follow.
- Thread disappears from Information Portal. Players find it and continue posting.
- Player guide gets edited to remove controversial remarks.
Without discussing the removal of "ghost training" specifically, what we have here is an attempt to pull a fast one on the players. It is easily the biggest attempted ninja nerf in the history of this game. Your customers deserve:
- More than two days of warning, so they can find out about the changes and plan accordingly
- More visible warning, like the login screen MOTD
- More transparency and honesty about the reasons by discussing all the reasons
Hard decisions are always hard, but how you handle them determines if you gain or lose respect. The player is going to feel screwed by changes that affect them poorly, and this is the equivalent of adding insult to injury.
A lot of people are willing to defend this company regardless of what they do (4S name change, t20 scandal), but this community was built on a common respect for the makers of this game even if they didn't always agree. That was eons ago.
You might not see a dip in subscriber counts, but you'll see an increase in player churn that requires more marketing money to support. You not only lose massive amounts of free word of mouth advertising, but scare away players with the amount of ex-EVE types that leave disgruntled at something you did.
quoting this becouse im down
QFT
QFT
QFT
QFT
|
Commander Erund
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 05:37:00 -
[3122]
Originally by: Julius Reyon
Originally by: Julius Kashmir
Originally by: Cosy Ceaon
Originally by: Besrezen Kantos
Originally by: Ishbuanium
Originally by: Aliedora
Originally by: younub
Originally by: Shard Merchant To recap..
- Release a short news bit regarding widespread and significant change that would occur in 48 hours.
- Buried with other news minutes later.
- 50 pages of posting follow, discussing the legitimacy of this change as per the reasons given.
- Locked 50 pages of posts because a blog was posted, that repeats the same message.
- Dev blog mentions the 'business side' of this move, which the news post omitted.
- 70 pages of new postings follow.
- Thread disappears from Information Portal. Players find it and continue posting.
- Player guide gets edited to remove controversial remarks.
Without discussing the removal of "ghost training" specifically, what we have here is an attempt to pull a fast one on the players. It is easily the biggest attempted ninja nerf in the history of this game. Your customers deserve:
- More than two days of warning, so they can find out about the changes and plan accordingly
- More visible warning, like the login screen MOTD
- More transparency and honesty about the reasons by discussing all the reasons
Hard decisions are always hard, but how you handle them determines if you gain or lose respect. The player is going to feel screwed by changes that affect them poorly, and this is the equivalent of adding insult to injury.
A lot of people are willing to defend this company regardless of what they do (4S name change, t20 scandal), but this community was built on a common respect for the makers of this game even if they didn't always agree. That was eons ago.
You might not see a dip in subscriber counts, but you'll see an increase in player churn that requires more marketing money to support. You not only lose massive amounts of free word of mouth advertising, but scare away players with the amount of ex-EVE types that leave disgruntled at something you did.
quoting this becouse im down
QFT
QFT
QFT
QFT
|
tim omarkson
Caldari
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 05:39:00 -
[3123]
this is ccp look after the super corp.
and make small corp who will not get the skill like cap skill 5 recon jump ship skill 5
Thank again for look after all the super corp
1 u give them all tech BPO now 2 give them all titan which people will need to pay ccp 3 month to learn cap skill 5
I think we all stop playing 4 2 month and watch ccp ask the play to come back
|
Linguistis
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 05:40:00 -
[3124]
Originally by: urdeath007
Originally by: Julius Reyon
Originally by: Julius Kashmir
Originally by: Cosy Ceaon
Originally by: Besrezen Kantos
Originally by: Ishbuanium
Originally by: Aliedora
Originally by: younub
Originally by: Shard Merchant To recap..
- Release a short news bit regarding widespread and significant change that would occur in 48 hours.
- Buried with other news minutes later.
- 50 pages of posting follow, discussing the legitimacy of this change as per the reasons given.
- Locked 50 pages of posts because a blog was posted, that repeats the same message.
- Dev blog mentions the 'business side' of this move, which the news post omitted.
- 70 pages of new postings follow.
- Thread disappears from Information Portal. Players find it and continue posting.
- Player guide gets edited to remove controversial remarks.
Without discussing the removal of "ghost training" specifically, what we have here is an attempt to pull a fast one on the players. It is easily the biggest attempted ninja nerf in the history of this game. Your customers deserve:
- More than two days of warning, so they can find out about the changes and plan accordingly
- More visible warning, like the login screen MOTD
- More transparency and honesty about the reasons by discussing all the reasons
Hard decisions are always hard, but how you handle them determines if you gain or lose respect. The player is going to feel screwed by changes that affect them poorly, and this is the equivalent of adding insult to injury.
A lot of people are willing to defend this company regardless of what they do (4S name change, t20 scandal), but this community was built on a common respect for the makers of this game even if they didn't always agree. That was eons ago.
You might not see a dip in subscriber counts, but you'll see an increase in player churn that requires more marketing money to support. You not only lose massive amounts of free word of mouth advertising, but scare away players with the amount of ex-EVE types that leave disgruntled at something you did.
quoting this becouse im down
QFT
QFT
QFT
QFT
|
Mr Patches
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 05:40:00 -
[3125]
Originally by: Jayce Shale I look forward to the Vampire thing which this is paying for. :P
Yeah! Something-something-Darkness. Saw the shirts recently.
Imaginary Electric Vampires > Imaginary Electric Space Ships any day of the week.
|
Leica Stroganow
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 05:40:00 -
[3126]
Originally by: Cosy Ceaon
Originally by: Besrezen Kantos
Originally by: Ishbuanium
Originally by: Aliedora
Originally by: younub
Originally by: Shard Merchant To recap..
- Release a short news bit regarding widespread and significant change that would occur in 48 hours.
- Buried with other news minutes later.
- 50 pages of posting follow, discussing the legitimacy of this change as per the reasons given.
- Locked 50 pages of posts because a blog was posted, that repeats the same message.
- Dev blog mentions the 'business side' of this move, which the news post omitted.
- 70 pages of new postings follow.
- Thread disappears from Information Portal. Players find it and continue posting.
- Player guide gets edited to remove controversial remarks.
Without discussing the removal of "ghost training" specifically, what we have here is an attempt to pull a fast one on the players. It is easily the biggest attempted ninja nerf in the history of this game. Your customers deserve:
- More than two days of warning, so they can find out about the changes and plan accordingly
- More visible warning, like the login screen MOTD
- More transparency and honesty about the reasons by discussing all the reasons
Hard decisions are always hard, but how you handle them determines if you gain or lose respect. The player is going to feel screwed by changes that affect them poorly, and this is the equivalent of adding insult to injury.
A lot of people are willing to defend this company regardless of what they do (4S name change, t20 scandal), but this community was built on a common respect for the makers of this game even if they didn't always agree. That was eons ago.
You might not see a dip in subscriber counts, but you'll see an increase in player churn that requires more marketing money to support. You not only lose massive amounts of free word of mouth advertising, but scare away players with the amount of ex-EVE types that leave disgruntled at something you did.
quoting this becouse im down
QFT
QFT
QFT
QFT
QFT
|
logarithum
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 05:40:00 -
[3127]
Originally by: Linguistis
Originally by: urdeath007
Originally by: Julius Reyon
Originally by: Julius Kashmir
Originally by: Cosy Ceaon
Originally by: Besrezen Kantos
Originally by: Ishbuanium
Originally by: Aliedora
Originally by: younub
Originally by: Shard Merchant To recap..
- Release a short news bit regarding widespread and significant change that would occur in 48 hours.
- Buried with other news minutes later.
- 50 pages of posting follow, discussing the legitimacy of this change as per the reasons given.
- Locked 50 pages of posts because a blog was posted, that repeats the same message.
- Dev blog mentions the 'business side' of this move, which the news post omitted.
- 70 pages of new postings follow.
- Thread disappears from Information Portal. Players find it and continue posting.
- Player guide gets edited to remove controversial remarks.
Without discussing the removal of "ghost training" specifically, what we have here is an attempt to pull a fast one on the players. It is easily the biggest attempted ninja nerf in the history of this game. Your customers deserve:
- More than two days of warning, so they can find out about the changes and plan accordingly
- More visible warning, like the login screen MOTD
- More transparency and honesty about the reasons by discussing all the reasons
Hard decisions are always hard, but how you handle them determines if you gain or lose respect. The player is going to feel screwed by changes that affect them poorly, and this is the equivalent of adding insult to injury.
A lot of people are willing to defend this company regardless of what they do (4S name change, t20 scandal), but this community was built on a common respect for the makers of this game even if they didn't always agree. That was eons ago.
You might not see a dip in subscriber counts, but you'll see an increase in player churn that requires more marketing money to support. You not only lose massive amounts of free word of mouth advertising, but scare away players with the amount of ex-EVE types that leave disgruntled at something you did.
quoting this becouse im down
QFT
QFT
QFT
QFT
|
rolland deschain
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 05:41:00 -
[3128]
Originally by: logarithum
Originally by: Linguistis
Originally by: urdeath007
Originally by: Julius Reyon
Originally by: Julius Kashmir
Originally by: Cosy Ceaon
Originally by: Besrezen Kantos
Originally by: Ishbuanium
Originally by: Aliedora
Originally by: younub
Originally by: Shard Merchant To recap..
- Release a short news bit regarding widespread and significant change that would occur in 48 hours.
- Buried with other news minutes later.
- 50 pages of posting follow, discussing the legitimacy of this change as per the reasons given.
- Locked 50 pages of posts because a blog was posted, that repeats the same message.
- Dev blog mentions the 'business side' of this move, which the news post omitted.
- 70 pages of new postings follow.
- Thread disappears from Information Portal. Players find it and continue posting.
- Player guide gets edited to remove controversial remarks.
Without discussing the removal of "ghost training" specifically, what we have here is an attempt to pull a fast one on the players. It is easily the biggest attempted ninja nerf in the history of this game. Your customers deserve:
- More than two days of warning, so they can find out about the changes and plan accordingly
- More visible warning, like the login screen MOTD
- More transparency and honesty about the reasons by discussing all the reasons
Hard decisions are always hard, but how you handle them determines if you gain or lose respect. The player is going to feel screwed by changes that affect them poorly, and this is the equivalent of adding insult to injury.
A lot of people are willing to defend this company regardless of what they do (4S name change, t20 scandal), but this community was built on a common respect for the makers of this game even if they didn't always agree. That was eons ago.
You might not see a dip in subscriber counts, but you'll see an increase in player churn that requires more marketing money to support. You not only lose massive amounts of free word of mouth advertising, but scare away players with the amount of ex-EVE types that leave disgruntled at something you did.
quoting this becouse im down
QFT
QFT
QFT
QFT
|
Wygg
Minmatar Hadean Drive Yards Archaean Cooperative
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 05:41:00 -
[3129]
Dudes.
Truncate your quotes. This is getting stoopid.
-Mis-spelling for the masses since 2008 so you don't have to.
|
rolland deschain
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 05:42:00 -
[3130]
Originally by: tim omarkson this is ccp look after the super corp.
and make small corp who will not get the skill like cap skill 5 recon jump ship skill 5
Thank again for look after all the super corp
1 u give them all tech BPO now 2 give them all titan which people will need to pay ccp 3 month to learn cap skill 5
I think we all stop playing 4 2 month and watch ccp ask the play to come back
|
|
Naema Kali
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 05:43:00 -
[3131]
I think I won't reactivate this account when it expires... 50% less costs for me...
|
Jolly Rogerer
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 05:43:00 -
[3132]
Anyone? Anyone?
|
Stormwind Bloodfeather
Minmatar Sogdian Traders Inc
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 05:45:00 -
[3133]
Edited by: Stormwind Bloodfeather on 15/10/2008 06:38:17 *Copied and pasted to this thread from the general forums*
I have never ghost trained. This is not about ghost training itself. What this is about is the disrespectful, underhanded way the ghost nerf was brought about. In effect CCP just did a John Smedley from Sony ("I don't care what the customers say as long as they keep paying")
I killed 8 everquest accounts over that statement and have never been back. Now CCP begins to treat the people who pay their wages the same way. I won't be disrespected, disregarded, and discounted by another gaming company in that way. I won't pay a company to treat me like shit.
My G/f and I have 4 accounts between us. I own three, she owns 1. We have discussed this at length and have decided to suspend our accounts for at minimum 1 month, with the possibility of doing so forever as our way of telling CCP this is unacceptable behavior on their parts.
No you can't have our stuff, we are not planning on being gone forever, just for a while, to make our small financial statement to CCP.
Fly Safe, and have a nice day.
Username: ********** Payment Type: CreditCard VISA ** Credit card details Change Payment Method Update Subscription Interval Subscription Status: Cancelled Will be suspended10/28/2008 Total Number Of Payments: 5 Cancel Subscription Cancellation Expires: 10/28/2008 8:53:45 AM Remaining Playtime: 13d:3h:25m
-----------------------------------------------------
Username: ********** Payment Type: CreditCard VISA ** Credit card details Change Payment Method Update Subscription Interval Subscription Status: Cancelled Will be suspended11/4/2008 Total Number Of Payments: 11 Cancel Subscription Cancellation Expires: 11/4/2008 8:56:27 AM Remaining Playtime: 20d:3h:25m
----------------------------------------------------
Username: ********** Payment Type: CreditCard VISA ** Credit card details Change Payment Method Update Subscription Interval Subscription Status: Cancelled Will be suspended11/3/2008 Total Number Of Payments: 10 Cancel Subscription Cancellation Expires: 11/3/2008 8:59:13 AM Remaining Playtime: 19d:3h:26m
----------------------------------------------------
Username: ********** Payment Type: CreditCard VISA ** Credit card details Change Payment Method Update Subscription Interval Subscription Status: Cancelled Will be suspended11/11/2008 Total Number Of Payments: 5 Cancel Subscription Cancellation Expires: 11/11/2008 8:15:19 AM Remaining Playtime: 27d:2h:36m In EVE, your only friend is your ship and it's weapons. All others are the enemy! |
Allen Ramses
Caldari Typo Corp
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 05:48:00 -
[3134]
Originally by: rolland deschain
Originally by: logarithum
Originally by: Linguistis
Originally by: urdeath007
Originally by: Julius Reyon
Originally by: Julius Kashmir
Originally by: Cosy Ceaon
Originally by: Besrezen Kantos
Originally by: Ishbuanium
Originally by: Aliedora
Originally by: younub
Originally by: Shard Merchant To recap..
- Release a short news bit regarding widespread and significant change that would occur in 48 hours.
- Buried with other news minutes later.
- 50 pages of posting follow, discussing the legitimacy of this change as per the reasons given.
- Locked 50 pages of posts because a blog was posted, that repeats the same message.
- Dev blog mentions the 'business side' of this move, which the news post omitted.
- 70 pages of new postings follow.
- Thread disappears from Information Portal. Players find it and continue posting.
- Player guide gets edited to remove controversial remarks.
Without discussing the removal of "ghost training" specifically, what we have here is an attempt to pull a fast one on the players. It is easily the biggest attempted ninja nerf in the history of this game. Your customers deserve:
- More than two days of warning, so they can find out about the changes and plan accordingly
- More visible warning, like the login screen MOTD
- More transparency and honesty about the reasons by discussing all the reasons
Hard decisions are always hard, but how you handle them determines if you gain or lose respect. The player is going to feel screwed by changes that affect them poorly, and this is the equivalent of adding insult to injury.
A lot of people are willing to defend this company regardless of what they do (4S name change, t20 scandal), but this community was built on a common respect for the makers of this game even if they didn't always agree. That was eons ago.
You might not see a dip in subscriber counts, but you'll see an increase in player churn that requires more marketing money to support. You not only lose massive amounts of free word of mouth advertising, but scare away players with the amount of ex-EVE types that leave disgruntled at something you did.
quoting this becouse im down
QFT
QFT
QFT
QFT
I AM PARTICIPATING IN A PYRAMID SCHEME!! ____________________ Pimped out Raven to run level 4 missions quickly: 210 Mil ISK. Realizing your 120 Mil ISK Drake gets the job done faster: Priceless. |
Hulk x
Minmatar Republic University
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 05:49:00 -
[3135]
Originally by: Stormwind Bloodfeather *Copied and pasted to this thread from the general forums just to **** ccp off*
I have never ghost trained. This is not about ghost training itself. What this is about is the disrespectful, underhanded way the ghost nerf was brought about. In effect CCP just did a John Smedley from Sony ("I don't care what the customers say as long as they keep paying")
I killed 8 everquest accounts over that statement and have never been back. Now CCP begins to treat the people who pay their wages the same way. I won't be disrespected, disregarded, and discounted by another gaming company in that way. I won't pay a company to treat me like shit.
My G/f and I have 4 accounts between us. I own three, she owns 1. We have discussed this at length and have decided to suspend our accounts for at minimum 1 month, with the possibility of doing so forever as our way of telling CCP this is unacceptable behavior on their parts.
No you can't have our stuff, we are not planning on being gone forever, just for a while, to make our small financial statement to CCP.
Fly Safe, and have a nice day.
Username: ********** Payment Type: CreditCard VISA ** Credit card details Change Payment Method Update Subscription Interval Subscription Status: Cancelled Will be suspended10/28/2008 Total Number Of Payments: 5 Cancel Subscription Cancellation Expires: 10/28/2008 8:53:45 AM Remaining Playtime: 13d:3h:25m
-----------------------------------------------------
Username: ********** Payment Type: CreditCard VISA ** Credit card details Change Payment Method Update Subscription Interval Subscription Status: Cancelled Will be suspended11/4/2008 Total Number Of Payments: 11 Cancel Subscription Cancellation Expires: 11/4/2008 8:56:27 AM Remaining Playtime: 20d:3h:25m
----------------------------------------------------
Username: ********** Payment Type: CreditCard VISA ** Credit card details Change Payment Method Update Subscription Interval Subscription Status: Cancelled Will be suspended11/3/2008 Total Number Of Payments: 10 Cancel Subscription Cancellation Expires: 11/3/2008 8:59:13 AM Remaining Playtime: 19d:3h:26m
----------------------------------------------------
Username: ********** Payment Type: CreditCard VISA ** Credit card details Change Payment Method Update Subscription Interval Subscription Status: Cancelled Will be suspended11/11/2008 Total Number Of Payments: 5 Cancel Subscription Cancellation Expires: 11/11/2008 8:15:19 AM Remaining Playtime: 27d:2h:36m
I wish I can protest the same way I Paid one year Membership and Just got a Power of Two account also. :(
|
James Marshalll
Gallente
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 05:50:00 -
[3136]
Originally by: Jolly Rogerer Anyone? Anyone?
I would post your picture, but I don't think ccp likes pictures of goatse here.
|
Leica Stroganow
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 05:53:00 -
[3137]
I just wonder that NO ONE off the foolish "is ok what theyve done" posters checks that exactly the same is hapening all the day in RL to everyone of you, high speed kapitalism rules the world and you will always find afew ASHOLES who say "its¦ok its their bussines, let them do so, they know what they do bla bla ****ING bla.
REMEMBER ME: THE TIME WILL COME 1% OFF MANKIND WILL GAIN 99% OF THE WORLD`S WEALTH, JUST BECAUSE OF THIS TINY STEPS HAPPEN ALL THE DAY WITHOUT BEING ADRESSED.
|
Shard Merchant
Minmatar
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 05:54:00 -
[3138]
These forums haven't pyramids big enough to quote for truth. _______________________________________________ CCP CENSORSHIP ALERT: CAN YOU SPOT IT? |
EFT Warrior
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 05:55:00 -
[3139]
Originally by: Allen Ramses
Originally by: rolland deschain
Originally by: logarithum
Originally by: Linguistis
Originally by: urdeath007
Originally by: Julius Reyon
Originally by: Julius Kashmir
Originally by: Cosy Ceaon
Originally by: Besrezen Kantos
Originally by: Ishbuanium
Originally by: Aliedora
Originally by: younub
Originally by: Shard Merchant To recap..
- Release a short news bit regarding widespread and significant change that would occur in 48 hours.
- Buried with other news minutes later.
- 50 pages of posting follow, discussing the legitimacy of this change as per the reasons given.
- Locked 50 pages of posts because a blog was posted, that repeats the same message.
- Dev blog mentions the 'business side' of this move, which the news post omitted.
- 70 pages of new postings follow.
- Thread disappears from Information Portal. Players find it and continue posting.
- Player guide gets edited to remove controversial remarks.
Without discussing the removal of "ghost training" specifically, what we have here is an attempt to pull a fast one on the players. It is easily the biggest attempted ninja nerf in the history of this game. Your customers deserve:
- More than two days of warning, so they can find out about the changes and plan accordingly
- More visible warning, like the login screen MOTD
- More transparency and honesty about the reasons by discussing all the reasons
Hard decisions are always hard, but how you handle them determines if you gain or lose respect. The player is going to feel screwed by changes that affect them poorly, and this is the equivalent of adding insult to injury.
A lot of people are willing to defend this company regardless of what they do (4S name change, t20 scandal), but this community was built on a common respect for the makers of this game even if they didn't always agree. That was eons ago.
You might not see a dip in subscriber counts, but you'll see an increase in player churn that requires more marketing money to support. You not only lose massive amounts of free word of mouth advertising, but scare away players with the amount of ex-EVE types that leave disgruntled at something you did.
quoting this becouse im down
QFT
QFT
QFT
QFT
I AM PARTICIPATING IN A PYRAMID SCHEME!!
|
UnDeRBaLaNcE
The Dead Parrot Shoppe Inc.
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 06:00:00 -
[3140]
Edited by: UnDeRBaLaNcE on 15/10/2008 06:02:15 Edited by: UnDeRBaLaNcE on 15/10/2008 06:01:29
Originally by: Stormwind Bloodfeather *Copied and pasted to this thread from the general forums just to **** ccp off*
I have never ghost trained. This is not about ghost training itself. What this is about is the disrespectful, underhanded way the ghost nerf was brought about. In effect CCP just did a John Smedley from Sony ("I don't care what the customers say as long as they keep paying")
I would like to say you might impact them but your accounts may or may not impact them for a short time, as all business do they have projections of expected new business gains, reactivations and permanent deactivations. I understand your idea here, but CCP can be rest assured ill be paying for my 5 accounts(2003 player) Never ghost trained them. Not to mention you said yourself youÆll still be paying eventually.
-On a deferent not related to your OP. all these people say they cannot afford 14.95 a month for financial reasons, I find this hard to believe. Perhaps you might need to see a financial counselor to help manage your money so you can manage to save 14.95 a month for account. Or! Switch to a cheaper net provider, or sell a extra hard drive in your pc. Mow a lawn or shovel some snow, or something extra. I have been in financial hardships but I was always able to support my gaming habit. It actually usually helped me save more money by staying in more frequently.
|
|
Stormwind Bloodfeather
Minmatar Sogdian Traders Inc
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 06:04:00 -
[3141]
Originally by: UnDeRBaLaNcE I would like to say toy might impact them but your accounts may or may not for a short time, as all business do they have projections of expected new business gains, reactivations and permanent deactivations. I understand your idea here, but CCP can be rest assured ill be paying for my 5 accounts(2003 player). Not to mention you said yourself youÆll still be paying eventually.
-On a deferent not related to your OP. all these people say they cannot afford 14.95 a month for financial reasons, I find this hard to believe. Perhaps you might need to see a financial counselor to help manage your money so you can manage to save 14.95 a month for account. Or! Switch to a cheaper net provider, or sell a extra hard drive in your pc. Mow a lawn or shovel some snow, or something extra. I have been in financial hardships but I was always able to support my gaming habit. It actually usually helped me save more money by staying in more frequently.
We agree with you, our statement to ccp by cancelling our accounts for a month is just a drop in the bucket. We probably will be back, tbh we love the game, but then again we also live in Hawai'i so during that month we might find things more enjoyable for us to do than sit in front of a computer and playing a game.
heh, who knows. we will see.
Stormwind
In EVE, your only friend is your ship and it's weapons. All others are the enemy! |
Leica Stroganow
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 06:06:00 -
[3142]
Originally by: UnDeRBaLaNcE Edited by: UnDeRBaLaNcE on 15/10/2008 06:02:15 Edited by: UnDeRBaLaNcE on 15/10/2008 06:01:29
Originally by: Stormwind Bloodfeather *Copied and pasted to this thread from the general forums just to **** ccp off*
I have never ghost trained. This is not about ghost training itself. What this is about is the disrespectful, underhanded way the ghost nerf was brought about. In effect CCP just did a John Smedley from Sony ("I don't care what the customers say as long as they keep paying")
I would like to say you might impact them but your accounts may or may not impact them for a short time, as all business do they have projections of expected new business gains, reactivations and permanent deactivations. I understand your idea here, but CCP can be rest assured ill be paying for my 5 accounts(2003 player) Never ghost trained them. Not to mention you said yourself youÆll still be paying eventually.
-On a deferent not related to your OP. all these people say they cannot afford 14.95 a month for financial reasons, I find this hard to believe. Perhaps you might need to see a financial counselor to help manage your money so you can manage to save 14.95 a month for account. Or! Switch to a cheaper net provider, or sell a extra hard drive in your pc. Mow a lawn or shovel some snow, or something extra. I have been in financial hardships but I was always able to support my gaming habit. It actually usually helped me save more money by staying in more frequently.
ARE YOU RICH??? OR AN IDIOT AND IF THIS GOES ON NO ONE OFF US WILL HAVE THE 14 bla bucks TO PLAY, VIVA KAPITALISM
|
Oftherocks
Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 06:06:00 -
[3143]
Ivar, it isn't too late, you can still save CCP. It takes a big man to admit he is wrong, show us you are a big man.
|
Rancid Oswald
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 06:08:00 -
[3144]
To all those who actually quit..
Bio your characters, ragequiting without biomassing means.."Argh unfair I quit!" then 2 weeks later...."Bored, I'll reactivate my account..."
So a real message, BIOMASS YOUR CHAR!!!
|
Dirtee Girl
Omega Enterprises 0mega Factor
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 06:10:00 -
[3145]
wow over a hundred pages
i think ccp should have packaged this with the nano nerf tbh some time around december with the next bug content release you can call it
EVE ONLINE: The Alienation Age
*
* |
UnDeRBaLaNcE
The Dead Parrot Shoppe Inc.
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 06:11:00 -
[3146]
Edited by: UnDeRBaLaNcE on 15/10/2008 06:15:30
Originally by: Leica Stroganow
Originally by: UnDeRBaLaNcE Edited by: UnDeRBaLaNcE on 15/10/2008 06:02:15 Edited by: UnDeRBaLaNcE on 15/10/2008 06:01:29
Originally by: Stormwind Bloodfeather *Copied and pasted to this thread from the general forums just to **** ccp off*
I have never ghost trained. This is not about ghost training itself. What this is about is the disrespectful, underhanded way the ghost nerf was brought about. In effect CCP just did a John Smedley from Sony ("I don't care what the customers say as long as they keep paying")
I would like to say you might impact them but your accounts may or may not impact them for a short time, as all business do they have projections of expected new business gains, reactivations and permanent deactivations. I understand your idea here, but CCP can be rest assured ill be paying for my 5 accounts(2003 player) Never ghost trained them. Not to mention you said yourself youÆll still be paying eventually.
-On a deferent not related to your OP. all these people say they cannot afford 14.95 a month for financial reasons, I find this hard to believe. Perhaps you might need to see a financial counselor to help manage your money so you can manage to save 14.95 a month for account. Or! Switch to a cheaper net provider, or sell a extra hard drive in your pc. Mow a lawn or shovel some snow, or something extra. I have been in financial hardships but I was always able to support my gaming habit. It actually usually helped me save more money by staying in more frequently.
ARE YOU RICH??? OR AN IDIOT AND IF THIS GOES ON NO ONE OFF US WILL HAVE THE 14 bla bucks TO PLAY, VIVA KAPITALISM
You dont need flame me, Actually I probably make less money than you. My military allowance is 1800.00USD a month after taxes as a E4 in the navy overseas and im making more money than stateside military. I know plenty military who play and pay. Its not about me being rich. It's about people not being able to pay 14.95. I also pay of student Loan debit's from college along with some old credit card debit prior to my service. In the states I would be able to pay still and I would be only making maybe 1200-1400 monthly after taxes. Yes I have a car overseas and all that stuff and I am in one of the most expsensive countries Japan.
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Kirra Liu
Gemini Industries Inc
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Posted - 2008.10.15 06:13:00 -
[3147]
Edited by: Kirra Liu on 15/10/2008 06:14:57
Originally by: EFT Warrior
Originally by: Allen Ramses
Originally by: rolland deschain
Originally by: logarithum
Originally by: Linguistis
Originally by: urdeath007
Originally by: Julius Reyon
Originally by: Julius Kashmir
Originally by: Cosy Ceaon
Originally by: Besrezen Kantos
Originally by: Ishbuanium
Originally by: Aliedora
Originally by: younub
Originally by: Shard Merchant To recap..
- Release a short news bit regarding widespread and significant change that would occur in 48 hours.
- Buried with other news minutes later.
- 50 pages of posting follow, discussing the legitimacy of this change as per the reasons given.
- Locked 50 pages of posts because a blog was posted, that repeats the same message.
- Dev blog mentions the 'business side' of this move, which the news post omitted.
- 70 pages of new postings follow.
- Thread disappears from Information Portal. Players find it and continue posting.
- Player guide gets edited to remove controversial remarks.
Without discussing the removal of "ghost training" specifically, what we have here is an attempt to pull a fast one on the players. It is easily the biggest attempted ninja nerf in the history of this game. Your customers deserve:
- More than two days of warning, so they can find out about the changes and plan accordingly
- More visible warning, like the login screen MOTD
- More transparency and honesty about the reasons by discussing all the reasons
Hard decisions are always hard, but how you handle them determines if you gain or lose respect. The player is going to feel screwed by changes that affect them poorly, and this is the equivalent of adding insult to injury.
A lot of people are willing to defend this company regardless of what they do (4S name change, t20 scandal), but this community was built on a common respect for the makers of this game even if they didn't always agree. That was eons ago.
You might not see a dip in subscriber counts, but you'll see an increase in player churn that requires more marketing money to support. You not only lose massive amounts of free word of mouth advertising, but scare away players with the amount of ex-EVE types that leave disgruntled at something you did.
quoting this becouse im down
QFT
QFT
QFT
QFT
I AM PARTICIPATING IN A PYRAMID SCHEME!!
Agreed.
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AlphaViscera
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Posted - 2008.10.15 06:16:00 -
[3148]
Edited by: AlphaViscera on 15/10/2008 06:16:18
Originally by: Shard Merchant To recap..
- Release a short news bit regarding widespread and significant change that would occur in 48 hours.
- Buried with other news minutes later.
- 50 pages of posting follow, discussing the legitimacy of this change as per the reasons given.
- Locked 50 pages of posts because a blog was posted, that repeats the same message.
- Dev blog mentions the 'business side' of this move, which the news post omitted.
- 70 pages of new postings follow.
- Thread disappears from Information Portal. Players find it and continue posting.
- Player guide gets edited to remove controversial remarks.
Without discussing the removal of "ghost training" specifically, what we have here is an attempt to pull a fast one on the players. It is easily the biggest attempted ninja nerf in the history of this game. Your customers deserve:
- More than two days of warning, so they can find out about the changes and plan accordingly
- More visible warning, like the login screen MOTD
- More transparency and honesty about the reasons by discussing all the reasons
Hard decisions are always hard, but how you handle them determines if you gain or lose respect. The player is going to feel screwed by changes that affect them poorly, and this is the equivalent of adding insult to injury.
A lot of people are willing to defend this company regardless of what they do (4S name change, t20 scandal), but this community was built on a common respect for the makers of this game even if they didn't always agree. That was eons ago.
You might not see a dip in subscriber counts, but you'll see an increase in player churn that requires more marketing money to support. You not only lose massive amounts of free word of mouth advertising, but scare away players with the amount of ex-EVE types that leave disgruntled at something you did.
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EnslaverOfMinmatar
Yarsk Hunters DeaDSpace Coalition
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Posted - 2008.10.15 06:16:00 -
[3149]
Today that take away our Ghost-training, tomorrow.. Zombie-training, after tommorow - Skeleton-training, and after a week turns out all your graves have been robbed!!!!! and the coffins are empty!!!!!
Skills continue training even if you are logged off or if your account is inactive (in the second scenario you can't change skill tr |
Stormaar
Caldari
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 06:17:00 -
[3150]
Looks like side bussines ----- Customizable UI / internal API for mods/addons |
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Cutesmile
Pator Tech School
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Posted - 2008.10.15 06:19:00 -
[3151]
The next step will be GTC stopping it is not necessary to be worried
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S3Ti
Genbuku. Daisho Syndicate
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Posted - 2008.10.15 06:20:00 -
[3152]
Hi fellow capsullers!!
This is a sad day for eve. I feel that i and the community have been lied by the persons who made this great game. There are proofs, the denials make it worst the excuses of denials make it BLATANT LIARS. I don't think that anyone in their perfect judgement would believe in your words. Problem is that is not the first time you lied.. nor will be the last for that matter is just a question of patience like the game you created and ghost training made patience needed much lower.
As stated in above posts there is a lack of respect and understanding to the playerbase newbs or veterans: 30 & 90 GTC <->Power of 2 <-> No ghost training seems to me a strategy to ripp off your customers RL money.You decieved your customers with merchandising (Power of 2, training afk, training with inactive account, etc) and after that you changed a feature to a bug. You do it with 48h short notice, you didn't say nothing in dev blog, not using the CSM channel, not making a big announcement because you knew that something could explode .... (this thread is what you didn't want i guess). You lacked B@@lls and you deserve what you get.
Ghost training was a feature used by everyone....some people for a few hours others for a few days but all with the same idea: for some reason i can't play now but i will play in X time so i just let that long skill train and when i come back i will be more effective and can try new aproaches. Like stated before is a nice feeling to reactivate account and seeing a nice lvl5 skill trained and use that new HAC or whatever. This was 1 of the reasons for return and that is one of the reasons for the alt accounts. The other reason is the roles that a player wants to test other sides like industry, science which is impossible with only 1 account.
You could do this way different.. 'Hey guys since this ability is being abused we will give 2 weeks ghost training for 2 months subscription' 'Hey guys, we are going to suspend ghost training but we will give possibility of training in the 3 slots at same time'
You did this the coward way, lying, decieving your customers and now you are going to pay. In my opinion you will loose more than what you gain... future will tell.
S3Ti
P.S. oh btw, -2 accounts, i need this one to post
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Rancid Oswald
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Posted - 2008.10.15 06:21:00 -
[3153]
Originally by: Cutesmile The next step will be GTC stopping it is not necessary to be worried
I support the removal of GTC's!!
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Ben Hump
Minmatar The Forsakened Companions IDLE EMPIRE
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Posted - 2008.10.15 06:21:00 -
[3154]
CCP = Customer Care Parody
We should all just cancel our accounts so CCP goes bankrupt and all of these arrogant money grabbing ***holes get sacked. Because that's what they deserve for screwing over their LONG TERM CUSTOMERS.
Get your act together CCP, you're becoming an EPIC FAIL.
May contain traces of irony, period and enter do not belong on my keyboard "Yes Mister Tristan"
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Leica Stroganow
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Posted - 2008.10.15 06:22:00 -
[3155]
Originally by: UnDeRBaLaNcE Edited by: UnDeRBaLaNcE on 15/10/2008 06:15:30
Originally by: Leica Stroganow
Originally by: UnDeRBaLaNcE Edited by: UnDeRBaLaNcE on 15/10/2008 06:02:15 Edited by: UnDeRBaLaNcE on 15/10/2008 06:01:29
Originally by: Stormwind Bloodfeather *Copied and pasted to this thread from the general forums just to **** ccp off*
I have never ghost trained. This is not about ghost training itself. What this is about is the disrespectful, underhanded way the ghost nerf was brought about. In effect CCP just did a John Smedley from Sony ("I don't care what the customers say as long as they keep paying")
I would like to say you might impact them but your accounts may or may not impact them for a short time, as all business do they have projections of expected new business gains, reactivations and permanent deactivations. I understand your idea here, but CCP can be rest assured ill be paying for my 5 accounts(2003 player) Never ghost trained them. Not to mention you said yourself youÆll still be paying eventually.
-On a deferent not related to your OP. all these people say they cannot afford 14.95 a month for financial reasons, I find this hard to believe. Perhaps you might need to see a financial counselor to help manage your money so you can manage to save 14.95 a month for account. Or! Switch to a cheaper net provider, or sell a extra hard drive in your pc. Mow a lawn or shovel some snow, or something extra. I have been in financial hardships but I was always able to support my gaming habit. It actually usually helped me save more money by staying in more frequently.
ARE YOU RICH??? OR AN IDIOT AND IF THIS GOES ON NO ONE OFF US WILL HAVE THE 14 bla bucks TO PLAY, VIVA KAPITALISM
You dont need flame me, Actually I probably make less money than you. My military allowance is 1800.00USD a month after taxes as a E4 in the navy overseas and im making more money than stateside military. I know plenty military who play and pay. Its not about me being rich. It's about people not being able to pay 14.95. I also pay of student Loan debit's from college along with some old credit card debit prior to my service. In the states I would be able to pay still and I would be only making maybe 1200-1400 monthly after taxes. Yes I have a car overseas and all that stuff and I am in one of the most expsensive countries Japan.
So you are one of this american freedom fighters who bring wild west kapitalism and ultimate freedom to the world??? review your live mate, the point is that ALLWAYS the mass of the customer¦s pays the bill in order to finance afew SUCKERS a nice living, its not about the gost training, its about the action itself.
grettings from germany
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UnDeRBaLaNcE
The Dead Parrot Shoppe Inc.
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 06:23:00 -
[3156]
Originally by: Stormaar Looks like side bussines
ThatÆs wrong. CCP does own more than one project but you have the wrong site. CCP is also hiring a lot of people if anyone ever has looked, I myself inquired about a GM possession for when I leave the military :) .
CCP Jobs
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Don Shadow
Viper Squad DeStInY.
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Posted - 2008.10.15 06:28:00 -
[3157]
Originally by: CCP Fallout
Heya guys,
There appears to be some sort of technical issue with the original thread. It's still reachable if you visit this link:
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=896318&page=1
I will have our tech people look into why it's not showing up anymore on the main page as it should be. ....................................................................................... No, I assure you I didn't hide it. I've been monitoring the thread closely when I saw some people post that it wasn't showing up on the list anymore. Promise: no conspiracy here.
12 HOURS LATTER, this topic is still "INVISIBLE"; that much with your honesty, CCP. are you guys just thinking we are stupid, or what? or your "tech people" are just pure fail??
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Gabriel Virtus
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 06:29:00 -
[3158]
Edited by: Gabriel Virtus on 15/10/2008 06:50:40
Originally by: LordSwift
Originally by: Seth Ruin
Originally by: Avon Hey, your bug...
Skills continue training even if you are logged off or if your account is inactive
I found it in the player guide.
You guys better get in there and ninja-edit it.
You, sir, are a hero.
No he has no life. and has nothing better to do than search the small print somewhere stating old information. Damn give them a chance to update everything.
I think the point is to answer CCP's claim that ghost training was an "unintended bug" when they use it as a feature on their player guide. Making the "bug" a selling point of the game and the revoking it with 2 days notice seems a bit underhanded?
-GV
|
Duke Phobos
Ostium Orci
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 06:29:00 -
[3159]
Originally by: Kirra Liu Edited by: Kirra Liu on 15/10/2008 06:14:57
Originally by: EFT Warrior
Originally by: Allen Ramses
Originally by: rolland deschain
Originally by: logarithum
Originally by: Linguistis
Originally by: urdeath007
Originally by: Julius Reyon
Originally by: Julius Kashmir
Originally by: Cosy Ceaon
Originally by: Besrezen Kantos
Originally by: Ishbuanium
Originally by: Aliedora
Originally by: younub
Originally by: Shard Merchant To recap..
- Release a short news bit regarding widespread and significant change that would occur in 48 hours.
- Buried with other news minutes later.
- 50 pages of posting follow, discussing the legitimacy of this change as per the reasons given.
- Locked 50 pages of posts because a blog was posted, that repeats the same message.
- Dev blog mentions the 'business side' of this move, which the news post omitted.
- 70 pages of new postings follow.
- Thread disappears from Information Portal. Players find it and continue posting.
- Player guide gets edited to remove controversial remarks.
Without discussing the removal of "ghost training" specifically, what we have here is an attempt to pull a fast one on the players. It is easily the biggest attempted ninja nerf in the history of this game. Your customers deserve:
- More than two days of warning, so they can find out about the changes and plan accordingly
- More visible warning, like the login screen MOTD
- More transparency and honesty about the reasons by discussing all the reasons
Hard decisions are always hard, but how you handle them determines if you gain or lose respect. The player is going to feel screwed by changes that affect them poorly, and this is the equivalent of adding insult to injury.
A lot of people are willing to defend this company regardless of what they do (4S name change, t20 scandal), but this community was built on a common respect for the makers of this game even if they didn't always agree. That was eons ago.
You might not see a dip in subscriber counts, but you'll see an increase in player churn that requires more marketing money to support. You not only lose massive amounts of free word of mouth advertising, but scare away players with the amount of ex-EVE types that leave disgruntled at something you did.
quoting this becouse im down
QFT
QFT
QFT
QFT
I AM PARTICIPATING IN A PYRAMID SCHEME!!
Agreed.
Why the hell not
|
UnDeRBaLaNcE
The Dead Parrot Shoppe Inc.
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 06:30:00 -
[3160]
Originally by: Leica Stroganow
So you are one of this american freedom fighters who bring wild west kapitalism and ultimate freedom to the world??? review your live mate, the point is that ALLWAYS the mass of the customer¦s pays the bill in order to finance afew SUCKERS a nice living, its not about the gost training, its about the action itself.
grettings from germany
So you believe that is why I joined my military? You do not know my real reason for this. I may have joined to support, may have joined for the support they provided by benefits. I am only looking it as business here. You cannot pay 14.95 I wonder how. I have seen many threads and threats in my line of work prior to serving. Working for T-Mobile wireless on a change of not great popularity many would threat but never follow through. Plus the way business works they have predictions and money pre allocated for gaining and loosing customers. Most of the posters here donÆt realize business stuff. I think you also pointed out my nationalism because you to cannot manage your finances and cannot afford 14.95 a month.
|
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Stormaar
Caldari
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 06:31:00 -
[3161]
Edited by: Stormaar on 15/10/2008 06:32:23
Originally by: UnDeRBaLaNcE
Originally by: Stormaar Looks like side bussines
ThatÆs wrong. CCP does own more than one project but you have the wrong site. CCP is also hiring a lot of people if anyone ever has looked, I myself inquired about a GM possession for when I leave the military :) .
CCP Jobs
Orl'y?
if u look at bottom of each page - u'll see the truth.
--------------------------------
Key Figures û CCP hf Income Statement in USD USD USD 2007 2006 Income.................................................. 37,155,107 26,308,826 Salaries and related expenses .......................... 11,336,081 4,969,896 Other operating expenses ............................... 20,013,914 8,919,041 Depreciation ........................................... 1,361,696 789,243 Operating profit......................................... 4,443,851 11,630,644 Financial income ....................................... 1,971,048 37,630 Financial expense ...................................... -1,927,139 -57769 9 Profit before tax ...................................... 4,487,760 11,090,575 Income tax ............................................. -1,489,505 -2,112,801 Profit for the period /year ............................ 2,998,255 8,977,774 ----- Customizable UI / internal API for mods/addons |
DJ Geist
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 06:32:00 -
[3162]
Originally by: Don Shadow
Originally by: CCP Fallout
Heya guys,
There appears to be some sort of technical issue with the original thread. It's still reachable if you visit this link:
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=896318&page=1
I will have our tech people look into why it's not showing up anymore on the main page as it should be. ....................................................................................... No, I assure you I didn't hide it. I've been monitoring the thread closely when I saw some people post that it wasn't showing up on the list anymore. Promise: no conspiracy here.
12 HOURS LATTER, this topic is still "INVISIBLE"; that much with your honesty, CCP. are you guys just thinking we are stupid, or what? or your "tech people" are just pure fail??
right. I realize that they link you to the discussion from the main announcement, but if you go to the forums the fact that there are 100+ pages discussing this thread is conveniently obscured. I think CCP is trying to be as hush-hush about this as possible while at the same time looking like they made some gestures to be open/transparent
and btw why did this not go through discussions with the csm? Is that just a sham then?
|
Georn
VIRTUAL LIFE VANGUARD Intrepid Crossing
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 06:33:00 -
[3163]
Could you guys please stop the piramid quotes? Just because CCP build a house of crap with this change doesn't mean you have to! ____________ even Carebears have teeth |
VisorBat
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 06:33:00 -
[3164]
I am upset! Return all as was!!!...pls %-)
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AntonioBanderas
The Bastards
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 06:34:00 -
[3165]
it seams that they've stopped moderating this thread... has there been ANY ccp answer to this? (i've stopped reading around page 70) __________________________________________________ I can say ASS!!! And SHIT!!!! \o/
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Stormaar
Caldari
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 06:35:00 -
[3166]
Originally by: AntonioBanderas it seams that they've stopped moderating this thread... has there been ANY ccp answer to this? (i've stopped reading around page 70)
was one. somewhere near 97pg ----- Customizable UI / internal API for mods/addons |
P Lansdale
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 06:35:00 -
[3167]
Originally by: DJ Geist
Originally by: Don Shadow
Originally by: CCP Fallout
Heya guys,
There appears to be some sort of technical issue with the original thread. It's still reachable if you visit this link:
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=896318&page=1
I will have our tech people look into why it's not showing up anymore on the main page as it should be. ....................................................................................... No, I assure you I didn't hide it. I've been monitoring the thread closely when I saw some people post that it wasn't showing up on the list anymore. Promise: no conspiracy here.
12 HOURS LATTER, this topic is still "INVISIBLE"; that much with your honesty, CCP. are you guys just thinking we are stupid, or what? or your "tech people" are just pure fail??
right. I realize that they link you to the discussion from the main announcement, but if you go to the forums the fact that there are 100+ pages discussing this thread is conveniently obscured. I think CCP is trying to be as hush-hush about this as possible while at the same time looking like they made some gestures to be open/transparent
and btw why did this not go through discussions with the csm? Is that just a sham then?
Agreed, taking way to long to "resolve"...but last confirmed bug they fixed took 5 years so perhaps we are being harsh and this is simply an intended feature.
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Cleksha
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 06:35:00 -
[3168]
Originally by: Gabriel Virtus
Originally by: LordSwift
Originally by: Seth Ruin
Originally by: Avon Hey, your bug...
Skills continue training even if you are logged off or if your account is inactive
I found it in the player guide.
You guys better get in there and ninja-edit it.
You, sir, are a hero.
I think the point is to answer CCP's claim that ghost training was an "unintended bug" when they use it as a feature on their player guide. Making the "bug" a selling point of the game and the revoking it with 2 days notice seems a bit underhanded?
-GV No he has no life. and has nothing better to do than search the small print somewhere stating old information. Damn give them a chance to update everything.
Ninja Edit Complete - Check it your self. Nice job. ****s
|
Jac Straw
Tribal Liberation Force
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 06:39:00 -
[3169]
In all honesty, I can't believe why people are getting so upset...
Ok so 48hrs was short notice, yes I agree with that. But the change is needed, it was unfair to those who activly pay to play, this will stop character farming, and will reduce GTC prices due to fewer accounts.
I believe this is for the best, those dedicated to the game will stay, those who no longer get a free ride will leave.
CCP could have implimented this stealthly, but decided to share it...
FFS its just a game, yes a game where my hard earned money goes, but RL issues have dramatically changed and companys have to protect themselves. If that is the reason.
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Paradise Dreamer
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 06:43:00 -
[3170]
Okay, so when you've deployed today's patch - give us back GTC30.
|
|
Sylthi
Minmatar Coreward Pan-Galactic
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 06:45:00 -
[3171]
Originally by: CCP t0rfifrans Does that mean that CCP is a greedy money chewing monster that just loves nerfing things?
Absolutely; ESPECIALLY the last part. The more time that goes by, I am actually becoming VERY convinced this is the sole and ONLY truth.
Fact: People have quit, are quitting, and are thinking of quitting because of recent VERY unpopular rule changes by CCP; and even MORE unpopular proposed changes coming in the near future. Overall account population is going down.
CCPs reaction? Tighten the belt (on the players) and beat the remaining account holders that have stayed loyal like the cash cows CCP views us as.
That being said, this should have been done years ago. People should not get what they don't pay for. Pure and simple. That is not to say that I am on CCP side. Far from it. I agree this decision was right on principle, but on principle ALONE. The timing, however, of this is ABYSSMAL, and an act of pure greed on the part of CCP. They are not doing this because it is the right thing to do, they are doing it because they are greedy and want to beat the cash cow for as much as they can to finance their upcoming projects.
Plus, who the HELL is running your PR department CCP? First you're ramming the Nano nerf (and the MANY other assorted nerfs that go along with it) down our throats, AGAINST popular vote, now THIS? Are you just tired of running an MMO and trying to chase all of your customers away, CCP? If that is your goal, I'd say your doing a bang up job!!
*
* |
fuxinos
Caldari Guys 0f Sarcasm
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 06:46:00 -
[3172]
Edited by: fuxinos on 15/10/2008 06:46:20
Originally by: Jac Straw In all honesty, I can't believe why people are getting so upset...
Ok so 48hrs was short notice, yes I agree with that. But the change is needed, it was unfair to those who activly pay to play, this will stop character farming, and will reduce GTC prices due to fewer accounts.
I believe this is for the best, those dedicated to the game will stay, those who no longer get a free ride will leave.
CCP could have implimented this stealthly, but decided to share it...
FFS its just a game, yes a game where my hard earned money goes, but RL issues have dramatically changed and companys have to protect themselves. If that is the reason.
seriously, who cares about there sahring, if they back it up with a lie oO????
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Xhanti
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 06:46:00 -
[3173]
Only one way to see if they really are monitoring this page, its to type obscure stuff and if it gets deleted they are only sitting here watching costumers leave and doing nothing hehe.
"CCP is a c u n t f ucking t it s ucker company with animal s ex as side jobb"
tho i know its now true but it that gets removed it only shows my point =P
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AntonioBanderas
The Bastards
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 06:48:00 -
[3174]
Originally by: CCP t0rfifrans The bug that became a feature
On Monday, we released news that we are disabling äGhost Trainingô, the ability to train characters on inactive accounts. This resulted in strong reactions from the community as many people were routinely making use of it. We explained the matter in more detail and pointed out that this had been a bug in the original game code. Those of us who were involved in the process of making the decision and communicating it to the community did not realize this bug had been so accepted as a feature that it was listed as such in our own documentation on our own website.
How can we not know whatæs in our own documentation? Well, to be frank, it was a case of insufficient communication on our part between various teams û a regrettable mistake and hard lesson to learn at the expense of the trust youæve placed in us. Thereæs no way to spin it and we wonæt add insult to injury by trying to do so. It was a mistake on our part and for that we sincerely and humbly apologize.
Many would hope that in light of this we will decide not to cancel ghost training and keep it active as an option but weære cannot to do that. EVE is already one-of-a-kind in allowing players to progress their characters through offline skill training. We stand by our policy that if you want your character to progress in EVE, you should pay the subscription fee. The fact that so many people have been able to do so for several years was our own oversight. We know this change, and our misstep in telling you about it, has created some discontent and we hope that over time we can prove our committment to make EVE better than ever for you will be evident as you enjoy the fruits of our labor.
Torfi
**** you **** you **** you **** you. __________________________________________________ I can say ASS!!! And SHIT!!!! \o/
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Turismo
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 06:51:00 -
[3175]
CCP,
I don't feel in anyway angry, but you have unchained me. This 'unintended bug' kept sucking me back every time I took a break over the last years. Now that I know I am not coming back after my next burn-out, I may as well quit now. If this goes ahead I will uninstall Eve and look for something new.
-4 accounts.
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Aliedora
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Posted - 2008.10.15 06:52:00 -
[3176]
**** that shit, you can shove your money right up your ass. I'm outta here. -3 accounts.
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Jack Olev
Gallente R.E.C.O.N. The Firm.
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Posted - 2008.10.15 06:53:00 -
[3177]
I always come back to eve because i know that one really long skill is finished training. Now that wont happen, didnt warhamer online come out. -------------------------------------------------------------------
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Lerand Gaunt
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Posted - 2008.10.15 06:53:00 -
[3178]
Edited by: Lerand Gaunt on 15/10/2008 06:53:50 I got to admit, I am surprised.
I hadn't yet seen this much emo-whining, alt-posting pretending to be another player and blatant stupidity. I were under impression that WoW had gathered most of these whinekids but this sadly proves us that there are those in EVE also.
There is only one thing I can say to this: Thank god they are quitting now. Or atleast some are, most just shout forums trying to prove their point of view with broken or just plain stupid reasoning (Hello! WoW / EQ / whatever allows you to have up to X characters / server but you still can only use 1 at a time. Brains, where are you?).
I WILL NOT be cancelling any of my accounts and am happily awaiting the time when I see less zero-reason-whiners in forums (as well as and in game).
Edit: corrected some typoes
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UnDeRBaLaNcE
The Dead Parrot Shoppe Inc.
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Posted - 2008.10.15 06:55:00 -
[3179]
Originally by: Stormaar Edited by: Stormaar on 15/10/2008 06:32:23
Originally by: UnDeRBaLaNcE
Originally by: Stormaar Looks like side bussines
ThatÆs wrong. CCP does own more than one project but you have the wrong site. CCP is also hiring a lot of people if anyone ever has looked, I myself inquired about a GM possession for when I leave the military :) .
CCP Jobs
Orl'y?
if u look at bottom of each page - u'll see the truth.
What this looks like to me is expansion and flows with the market. In 07 they had more income but less money and more expenses than in 06. Has anyone checked the price of the server blades they use?! They are expensive, not to mention the SSD RAID drive for the database, which I am waiting for the price quote from the company which sells them. I had to send fake business info to get a cataloged emailed which I did not get yet.
2007 2006 DEFERENCE -Income 37,155,10726,308,82610,846,281MORE SUBS -Salaries and related expenses 11,336,0814,969,8966,366,185MORE STAFF FOR THE SUBS -Other operating expenses 20,013,9148,919,04111,094,873MORE HARDWARE YES IT COST THIS MUCH -Depreciation 1,361,696789,243 572,453 -Operating profit 4,443,85111,630,644-7,186,793COST TO RUN THE BUSINESS -Financial income 1,971,04837,630 1,933,418 -Financial expense -1,927,139-57769 9 -Profit before tax 4,487,76011,090,575-6,602,815 -Income tax -1,489,505-2,112,801623,296 -Profit for the period /year 2,998,2558,977,774-5,979,519EXPANSION OF BUSINESS
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Tae'Lin Hynd
Simply Planned
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Posted - 2008.10.15 06:58:00 -
[3180]
Edited by: Tae''Lin Hynd on 15/10/2008 07:08:08 I think we should realize this is happening because of characters=isk (ingame) They also changed the GTC to cost a lil more because GTC=isk (ingame)
In seeing the value of realworld money on ingame currency, CCP have seen a new cash cow.
They figure, screw the guy who uses this benifit for when an account lapses, or he is so sick of eve's flaws but we don't want to lose him forever benefit of coming back to a new shiney.
Why concern ourselves of what those folk who only pay 15-30 bucks a month, when we can really milk the character farmers.(since isk[ingame] now has a monetary value to it in which CCP can farm it through the sales of charaters).
But with the so called bug, CCP were actually not making the money that they were from GTC, especially with the change to 60 days.
So that leaves us with forcing the farmers to keep an active account, but screwing either the ones who never knew it existed, (Ghost training is only a two day old term now, i have never heard it before yesterday) or the ones who used it as a cusion for the rough times be it ingame, or in RL, and CCP thanks for that privilidge, but honestly...For some reason when I learned of this that one little thing, odd reason, gave me that extra wow, these guys actually enjoy us as patrons. Giving us a cusion like that to fall on if needed (and this was even before I knew how long the real skills took).
So back to subject here, this leaves us with the farmers having to make sure that they have their accounts paid up to be able to Min/Max their SP. (wow, have CCP also put a monetary value on our SPs?) This in NO WAY will hurt the dedicated farmer. It will only Expand that gap that they pull into their wallet, while filling yours. Amazing that pixels can make you do that.
Character selling for isk was bad from the get go, never should have been done...EVER GTC is close second to that, yes i understand some play the game to get to play the game.(maybe should rethink your hobby at this point?) But giving isk(ingame) an almost stable realworld value, changed the whole vibe of the game.
look at character sells, and look at the dates, and see how it has only compounded itself.
GTCs, the same thing numbers have only grown of those wanting to buy that time
You gave isk (ingame) a realworld value, you broke the game, now take out what is really broken.
anyway, no one will read this so it doesn't really matter much, let the steamroller roll on into that dusty db in the sky...
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Julius Kashmir
Caldari Dark Skullz Empire Intrepid Crossing
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Posted - 2008.10.15 06:58:00 -
[3181]
Originally by: Lerand Gaunt Brains, where are you?).
I've gotta wonder when you'll answer your question...oopps never mind you can't w/o a brain o.o
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Col Callahan
Caldari Oberon Incorporated Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2008.10.15 06:59:00 -
[3182]
It's sick really for me to now feel the way I do but watching a company and the lives of the company employees go down the drain, It brings me pleasure.
"Some people just enjoy watching the world burn" _
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Ayrion Centare
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.10.15 07:00:00 -
[3183]
Originally by: Jac Straw In all honesty, I can't believe why people are getting so upset..,
For myself personally, I quote my post from earlier:
Quote: Ghost Training is specifically one of the features that attracted me to EVE.
I never got into any other MMOs because I have a life and I simply can't dedicate the time necessary to grind up a powerful end-game character. And if I couldn't do that, it seemed like waste of time and money to even get started. So I didn't.
When I first learn about EVE and it's skill training model and the ability to ghost train I thought it was genius. Finally an MMO that doesn't punish me for having a life. I could take extended stretches of time outside the game but still continue to level my character towards end game. Ghost training was a huge selling point for me.
I'd like to have some empathy for CCP especially with current market condition, but their treatment of the matter has been despicable. The outright lie that ghost training was an unintended bug instead of a feature clearly written in your own player manual is so rude and disrespectful it's insulting.
If ghost training took such a financial toll and was an actual bug you could have protected yourself easily by stating in your player manual that ghost training is an unintended feature caused by a bug and it will be removed. Even if it took you 5 years to remove it nobody could make a fuss because it was clearly stated.
Right now you guys at CCP are not in the best position. It either looks like:
There was a bug that existed in your skill training system for 5 years that you actually called a feature in your own player manual which makes you look stupid and incompetent.
or
Or this is an attempt to squeeze your customers for extra subs by lying and disabling a well known feature that made your MMO distinct from other MMOs when it came to character advancement which makes you look desperate and pathetic.
This is a deal breaker for me.
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Furnak Tye
Caldari Mortis Angelus The Church.
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Posted - 2008.10.15 07:05:00 -
[3184]
Edited by: Furnak Tye on 15/10/2008 07:05:08
Originally by: CCP t0rfifrans The bug that became a feature
On Monday, we released news that we are disabling äGhost Trainingô, the ability to train characters on inactive accounts. This resulted in strong reactions from the community as many people were routinely making use of it. We explained the matter in more detail and pointed out that this had been a bug in the original game code. Those of us who were involved in the process of making the decision and communicating it to the community did not realize this bug had been so accepted as a feature that it was listed as such in our own documentation on our own website.
How can we not know whatæs in our own documentation? Well, to be frank, it was a case of insufficient communication on our part between various teams û a regrettable mistake and hard lesson to learn at the expense of the trust youæve placed in us. Thereæs no way to spin it and we wonæt add insult to injury by trying to do so. It was a mistake on our part and for that we sincerely and humbly apologize.
Many would hope that in light of this we will decide not to cancel ghost training and keep it active as an option but weære cannot to do that. EVE is already one-of-a-kind in allowing players to progress their characters through offline skill training. We stand by our policy that if you want your character to progress in EVE, you should pay the subscription fee. The fact that so many people have been able to do so for several years was our own oversight. We know this change, and our misstep in telling you about it, has created some discontent and we hope that over time we can prove our committment to make EVE better than ever for you will be evident as you enjoy the fruits of our labor.
Torfi
B**lsh*t, frankly the only reason I came back after my long wait was due to ghost training, anyway I stopped recommending this game to people a while ago, now I think I'll actively start telling them how s**t the company who made it has become, CCP = liars and money grabbers. ------------------------------------------- THE CAKE IS A LIE |
Mallikanth
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Posted - 2008.10.15 07:05:00 -
[3185]
CCP asking people to pay to use their services? How outrageous
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Sylthi
Minmatar Coreward Pan-Galactic
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Posted - 2008.10.15 07:07:00 -
[3186]
Account management goes down. Ghost Account training coming to an end announced. That announcement disappears VERY shortly after it is posted. First thread allowing people to talk about the change get buried. Second thread allowing people to talk about the change disappears. Third thread allowing people to talk about the change gets locked. Patch notes STILL not up only 5 hours away from patch time.
But none of these things have anything to do with each other, and are ALL pure coincidence. There is no "conspiracy." RIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIGGHHT.
I honestly thought you had at least a little respect for your customer's intelligence CCP...... Guess I was wrong. *
* |
Darrk Helmet
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Posted - 2008.10.15 07:10:00 -
[3187]
Edited by: Darrk Helmet on 15/10/2008 07:10:30 this will probably get lost in with the other 100 pages of whining, but what id like to see is ccp introduce skill queing in response to this.
i took a break from eve a while back due to lack of time/interest and i set long skills and let my accounts go inactive. I would have continued to pay my subs and trained useful smaller skills if i could have queued them. (im not emo rage quitting btw, im just asking nicely)
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Amarr Hyena
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Posted - 2008.10.15 07:11:00 -
[3188]
Uncloak the Threadnaught!
------- ghost training Threadnaught V. Skills continue training even if you are logged off or if your account is inactive. |
Raastah Fedajin
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.10.15 07:13:00 -
[3189]
Ok, so if my subscription runs out, you stop my training. Fair enough.
But If my training runs out in the middle of the night and because not having a chance to train another skill while sleeping, do I now get my money back for the time I could not train? Because I am then not using the database, so saving u a lot, right?
But as your take the way your country goes, I am not surprised to hear excuses for what you accepted for YEARS !
Ah no, you just found out, right ??
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NereSky
Gallente Trinity Nova Trinity Nova Alliance
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Posted - 2008.10.15 07:14:00 -
[3190]
Originally by: NereSky
Originally by: Delos Korelian
Originally by: Jinx Barker
... ever since the "old" guard of the developers left active EVE online roles CCP customer service, CCP customer attunes, and general CCP attitude toward its player base has gone to shit.
Aint that the truth
Qft
I thnk ill get this printed on a T Shirt :)
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Kalintos Tyl
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.10.15 07:15:00 -
[3191]
then rp accumulation when account is inactive, reasearch jobs in npc stations and manufacturing in npc stations is bug too? :D http://dl.eve-files.com/media/0810/lie.jpg guide ninja edited already hidden topic: http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&thread |
Leica Stroganow
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Posted - 2008.10.15 07:20:00 -
[3192]
EVE a persistant universe - sometimes
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Prof Patpending
Bodgit and Scarper Industrial
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Posted - 2008.10.15 07:26:00 -
[3193]
THE THREADNAUGH COMETH |
Svekke
Minmatar Horizon.Inc
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Posted - 2008.10.15 07:28:00 -
[3194]
I support ghost training removal. I'd even go a step further and have all the SP acquired by ghost training removed. Toobad it took so long. It would be nice to have a skill folowup system though. Now might be the time to bring up that issue too.
You people wine too much. |
Kage Psychodin
Caldari The Empire Nation Worlds End Consortium
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Posted - 2008.10.15 07:29:00 -
[3195]
Yep. they screwed up. Do you really think shouting and screaming because you feel owed is going to prevent every change a game base has? I woulda liked to see the classic cap, classic nano nerf and this hit sometime in december, that would have been funny to see.
(Yes I am still staying. Why? because when I log on, I log on to play. if a game is going to pull me back its because my interest is sparked again. try being part of a corp or alliance that might not even be there tomorrow before you whine about incentives to return. I might not even be able to get most of my ships or gear back half the time. I had two accounts, but not enough money to warrant the second one from its use. That is a good thing.) |
Roland San
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Posted - 2008.10.15 07:30:00 -
[3196]
TBH as much as I love eve, there's only so much time I can afford to spend playing. It's not only because I have RL stuff to attend to, it's also because that every now and then, I get eve burnout, and it's just painful to grind that one more mission, or fit out that one more ship, or spend hours chasing shadows in space with a ragtag militia.
So breaks are necessary, and the 3-month GTCs, which I happily paid for, was perfect. I get to recover from too much eve, and the best thing is, when I come back, I get to have a high rank skill done to level 5, which I've never had before. The lure of getting a skill to level 5 and opening up new options was something that kept bringing me back.
Bad enough there's hundreds of skills to deal with, and that we have to rely on third-party programs like eveMon to keep an eye on all this. And this is with one (1) account alone. So subscribed time is spent getting all these skills to level 4, so that one special choice can be made, that one special skill gets upped to level 5. Having that trained on unsubscribed time was the best idea ever. To return to new ships or unlocked tech 2 goodies was a bonus. It was a game feature, a selling point, a dealmaker. An unsharded world is pretty meh to me, but the fact that I can advance, while recovering from the inevitable burnout, to new stuff was something that kept me coming back.
I'm not saying I'm quitting. But if this goes into effect, there goes my plans for an alt account, and you'd find the breaks in between subscriptions much longer. That's just me, CCP. I wonder how many others are thinking the same way. I wonder how many alt accounts will get shelved once this kicks in. You guys are obviously concerned about your finances. You deal with that by getting additional customers on top of keeping existing ones, not driving them away. |
Maria Kalista
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Posted - 2008.10.15 07:32:00 -
[3197]
Originally by: Raastah Fedajin Ok, so if my subscription runs out, you stop my training. Fair enough.
It will stop 3 days *after* the last downtime, giving you fair enough time to re-subscribe. |
Liranan
M'8'S Frontal Impact
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Posted - 2008.10.15 07:34:00 -
[3198]
Originally by: Raastah Fedajin Ok, so if my subscription runs out, you stop my training. Fair enough.
But If my training runs out in the middle of the night and because not having a chance to train another skill while sleeping, do I now get my money back for the time I could not train? Because I am then not using the database, so saving u a lot, right?
But as your take the way your country goes, I am not surprised to hear excuses for what you accepted for YEARS !
Ah no, you just found out, right ??
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Ronald Carry
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Posted - 2008.10.15 07:34:00 -
[3199]
heh, ofc the main reason are money, with the current economic crisis, iceland banks and stock market down, the get what you can is in order.... |
Pbs
Pumpkin Scissors
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Posted - 2008.10.15 07:36:00 -
[3200]
Ok, here the deal, the icelandic boys. We are (Russia) give you $4 bil., and you are leave ghost training alone |
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Kerfira
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Posted - 2008.10.15 07:36:00 -
[3201]
Originally by: ArmyOfMe dont get me wrong, i agree with this change, and imo you should also take away rp gains and market orders from inactive accounts.
what i dont agree on, it the way that ccp has started to treat its customers over the last year or so, with changes a large portion of the game disagree on.
There are wast differences between your examples...
Originally by: ArmyOfMe like the once proposed carrier nerf(you thankfully turned around on that one after a shitstorm of ppl said they would quit the game)
The arguments against this were well reasoned, were not based on a few people wanting to keep their I-Win button, but was aimed at a change that would render a ship-class effectively unusable. Moreover, there were next to nobody who supported it. CCP took a step back, saw the comments made were valid, and responded in a sensible way.
Right decision!
Originally by: ArmyOfMe the nano changes that a very large portion of the game says they dont want(and yet you still dont post any replies to threads containing valid arguments, and worries about those changes)
CCP saw the whines about it for what it was, primarily two groups of players plus a smattering of individuals who'd been abusing this for long, and couldn't bear to loose their I-Win button. A large proportion of the player base supports this nerf. CCP again took a step back (witness the delay in implementation), saw that the changes they proposed were still valid and the complaints were not about game mechanics but about peoples personal I-Win buttons (ie. selfish, and to the detriment of the game), and decided to go through with it.
Right decision!
Originally by: ArmyOfMe and now this change.
Again, CCP considers the issue, decides that they're a commercial company that is not making money on giving out freebies, and changes it. A lot of players object (again for selfish reasons), and CCP sees this for what it is.
Right decision!
And as you all know, for every 1000 people threatening to cancel an account, 1 will do so.....
Everybody complains when loosing their free lunch, but will still pay for lunch when they get hungry!
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Kerien Shien
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Posted - 2008.10.15 07:36:00 -
[3202]
Now, then if this thing goes to pass i would like my character to learn by the time i spend on it. I dont want to have those one month skills to train, should be closer to 3-4 days of time spend ingame then. I am so not gonna go and pay you for just watching my skillbar count down from 32d 3h and 53 minutes...
If you want the players money then please make some better way of training instead of this pay for 4 months to advance. Then you should allso take the skills "ghosted" away from old players to make it even.
But since you wont, i'd like some offers on old accounts into my mail, will pay less money than it takes to level them up but hey, there is gonna be so many inactive ones soon so at least someone can get few € back for their time spent.. |
Jaxxon Voers
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Posted - 2008.10.15 07:38:00 -
[3203]
Edited by: Jaxxon Voers on 15/10/2008 07:54:34
Originally by: Lerand Gaunt Edited by: Lerand Gaunt on 15/10/2008 06:53:50 I got to admit, I am surprised.
I hadn't yet seen this much emo-whining, alt-posting pretending to be another player and blatant stupidity. I were under impression that WoW had gathered most of these whinekids but this sadly proves us that there are those in EVE also.
There is only one thing I can say to this: Thank god they are quitting now. Or atleast some are, most just shout forums trying to prove their point of view with broken or just plain stupid reasoning (Hello! WoW / EQ / whatever allows you to have up to X characters / server but you still can only use 1 at a time. Brains, where are you?).
I WILL NOT be cancelling any of my accounts and am happily awaiting the time when I see less zero-reason-whiners in forums (as well as and in game).
Edit: corrected some typoes
Considering that many of the people most offended by this latest CCP fiasco are people with 4+ more years of Eve experience than you, maybe you should be concerned after all. After all, its all of the long-term hardcore players that have held this game together over the years, and I see a lot of 4-5 year players posting some seriously heated stuff in this thread. And its not the nerf, its the way its been handled that seems to have most of the adults in the room ****ed. One year in Eve isnt particularly impressive to most of us, and your post is extremely offensive to me personally. Many of the posts in this thread are well reasoned and bring up very legitimate questions and concerns.
I personally couldnt care less about ghost training, one way or the other. I have used it a few times over the years, but I am not bound to it. What I think will be a spear in the side of Eve is the fact that there is now much less incentive to renew an expired character.
Someone earlier in the thread stated it well...since the 'old guard' devs and GM's left, the Eve universe has been a much less interesting and fun place to play. We used to get snowball launchers and Jove attacks, now we get price increases and the nerf-bat.
Interesting side note, anyone else notice the server graph isnt working?
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Fink Angel
Caldari The Merry Men
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Posted - 2008.10.15 07:38:00 -
[3204]
I think CCP should familiarise themselves with Group Intelligence.
Or if I may put it bluntly: You can't bullshit a bunch of bullshitters.
Put me down as a vote for "Don't care about the change. Do care that we're being lied to about the reason." |
Raastah Fedajin
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.10.15 07:44:00 -
[3205]
Originally by: Svekke I support ghost training removal. I'd even go a step further and have all the SP acquired by ghost training removed. Toobad it took so long. It would be nice to have a skill folowup system though. Now might be the time to bring up that issue too.
You people wine too much.
Why don¦t you make a difference between content and behavior?
Even if the ghost training is not ok, why accept it for years and have it as a feature? Why not introduce for ex the skill follow up system in the same news. Why not treat us CUSTOMERS like grown ups.
I did not use the ghost training much (one time now while beeing on a holiday, feeling good that at least my character was doing something ) but I feel like this company is treating me like dirt and I am not that addicted to the game to be pushed around like they do. So that is just a decision of accept this way of treatment and information politics or not accepting it and leaving. Have to figure that out ... |
Gara Al'Malik
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Posted - 2008.10.15 07:45:00 -
[3206]
Posting in an epic whine thread! Boo hoo, I need to subscribe to a mmorpg to get my character to advance in that game. What a horrible idea and a weird and new concept! |
Lustralis
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 07:49:00 -
[3207]
I use this feature a lot, because I don't play Eve that much. I'm gone for like 5 or 6 months at a time. I've played since beta 6 and ghost training was a FEATURE, not a bug. There's always a slight "pull" to signing up and playing again knowing you've got a new skill after a long time out. That's going to go now.
But of course, a lot of people with ghost training accounts are going to cancel them, so I don't think CCP are doing this for the money! Way to shoot yourself in the foot. |
kor anon
Amarr Corporeal utopia for nasty tramps BROTHERS GRIM.
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Posted - 2008.10.15 07:49:00 -
[3208]
Tbh i dont even mind that they are tking it away, what i dont like is them lying to our faces then deleting posts and hiding this thread etc |
Nate D
Hell's Rejects
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Posted - 2008.10.15 07:50:00 -
[3209]
I would be very surprised it CCP went through with this today. I would be taken aback by the lack of interest in customer input. |
Fink Angel
Caldari The Merry Men
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Posted - 2008.10.15 07:50:00 -
[3210]
I'll sum up what happened.
CCP money man meets CCP dev at the coffee machine. Smalltalk ensues.
"You're letting people do WHAT???"
Devs ordered to make changes by management. |
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Rosetterial
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 07:53:00 -
[3211]
Worst changes ever... worst excuse ever... and made the most interesting MMO turning the worst ever...
It's been months since I've switch over from WoW to Eve, and one of the MAIN REASON of doing so... is the Ghost training. We are all adult and have a day job. I'll like to have the option of un-subscribing for 1-2 months and have training going when I'm uber busy with work and unable to log in... this change CCP made, is really sad. |
Halleck Gurney
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Posted - 2008.10.15 07:54:00 -
[3212]
This sounds like a plan of Dr. Evil
"Dr. Evil" ... and then we will cancel the ghosttraining forcing all of them to permanent payment plans, making us millions, MUHAHAHAHA ...
"Nr. 1" ... and what if they decide to leave Dr. Evil ?
"Dr. Evil" ... shyte ... hello people, need the info !!!! |
Kerfira
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Posted - 2008.10.15 07:54:00 -
[3213]
Edited by: Kerfira on 15/10/2008 07:55:48
Originally by: GateScout
Originally by: CCP t0rfifrans The fact that so many people have been able to do so for several years was our own oversight.
...and how will removing this FEATURE help the playerbase or CCP?
Will this increase subscriptions? Don't count on it.
Yes it will, once people get over their emoragequit tendencies, they'll mostly stay..... Seen this every single time there's been an issue about this.
Originally by: GateScout Will it help retain players? Nope.
See answer above... Same deal....
Originally by: GateScout Will in influence players to come back? Nope
New players will not care what was in the past! They only care what is! No effect on them at all....
Originally by: GateScout Does this encourage players to play more? Not a chance.
Maybe not play more, but skill training is addictive so they'll keep their accounts subscribed more. For players who're at the level where ghost training is significant (ie. who train the long L5 skills), they're already hooked. They'll by a large majority keep their chars subscribed more.
Remember, the average EVE player stays in the game for 7 months, and thus never gets any benefits from ghost training. The ones that do are hooked anyway and is a minority in any case. Another guess is that CCP has also seen a disproportionate amount of older accounts doing this and then selling the characters, and decided this is not good (something I wholeheartedly agree with). Possibly they've also concluded that there are too many high-skilled accounts in the game and decided to limit that. |
Shani Nerkata
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 07:54:00 -
[3214]
Originally by: Jinx Barker
... ever since the "old" guard of the developers left active EVE online roles CCP customer service, CCP customer attunes, and general CCP attitude toward its player base has gone to shit.
QFT 1
Originally by: younub
Originally by: Shard Merchant To recap..
- Release a short news bit regarding widespread and significant change that would occur in 48 hours.
- Buried with other news minutes later.
- 50 pages of posting follow, discussing the legitimacy of this change as per the reasons given.
- Locked 50 pages of posts because a blog was posted, that repeats the same message.
- Dev blog mentions the 'business side' of this move, which the news post omitted.
- 70 pages of new postings follow.
- Thread disappears from Information Portal. Players find it and continue posting.
- Player guide gets edited to remove controversial remarks.
Without discussing the removal of "ghost training" specifically, what we have here is an attempt to pull a fast one on the players. It is easily the biggest attempted ninja nerf in the history of this game. Your customers deserve:
- More than two days of warning, so they can find out about the changes and plan accordingly
- More visible warning, like the login screen MOTD
- More transparency and honesty about the reasons by discussing all the reasons
Hard decisions are always hard, but how you handle them determines if you gain or lose respect. The player is going to feel screwed by changes that affect them poorly, and this is the equivalent of adding insult to injury.
A lot of people are willing to defend this company regardless of what they do (4S name change, t20 scandal), but this community was built on a common respect for the makers of this game even if they didn't always agree. That was eons ago.
You might not see a dip in subscriber counts, but you'll see an increase in player churn that requires more marketing money to support. You not only lose massive amounts of free word of mouth advertising, but scare away players with the amount of ex-EVE types that leave disgruntled at something you did.
QFT
QFT 2 |
NereSky
Gallente Trinity Nova Trinity Nova Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 07:54:00 -
[3215]
Originally by: Jaxxon Voers
Originally by: Lerand Gaunt Edited by: Lerand Gaunt on 15/10/2008 06:53:50 I got to admit, I am surprised.
I hadn't yet seen this much emo-whining, alt-posting pretending to be another player and blatant stupidity. I were under impression that WoW had gathered most of these whinekids but this sadly proves us that there are those in EVE also.
There is only one thing I can say to this: Thank god they are quitting now. Or atleast some are, most just shout forums trying to prove their point of view with broken or just plain stupid reasoning (Hello! WoW / EQ / whatever allows you to have up to X characters / server but you still can only use 1 at a time. Brains, where are you?).
I WILL NOT be cancelling any of my accounts and am happily awaiting the time when I see less zero-reason-whiners in forums (as well as and in game).
Edit: corrected some typoes
Considering that many of the people most offended by this latest CCP fiasco are people with 4+ more years of Eve experience than you, maybe you should be concerned after all. After all, its all of the long-term hardcore players that have held this game together over the years, and I see a lot of 4-5 year players posting some seriously heated stuff in this thread. And its not the nerf, its the way its been handled that seems to have most of the adults in the room ****ed. One year in Eve isnt particularly impressive to most of us, and your post is extremely offensive to me personally. Many of the posts in this thread are well reasoned and bring up very legitimate questions and concerns.
I personally couldnt care less about ghost training, one way or the other. I have used it a few times over the years, but I am not bound to it. What I think will be a spear in the side of Eve is the fact that there is now much less incentive to renew an expired character.
Someone earlier in the thread stated it well...since the 'old guard' devs and GM's left, the Eve universe has been a much less interesting and fun place to play. We used to get snowball launchers and Jove attacks, now we get price increases and the nerf-bat.
Jaxxon, Lerand will learn when he gets a few more years under his belt and experiences CCP customer service and gets his teeth kicked out time and time again,
At this moment people like him whine against the whiners not realising one day when hes had enough and complains noone in CCP will listen and then out of desperation go's to the forums to get support only to find the newer guys are brandishing the i dont care stick. The issue doesnt affect me either but i can see many people affected by it and sympathise and i can also see this is another attempt at CCP at subverting a game they once cared about to the levels of WOW CCP have now removed themselves from the game that much i doubt they even play it any more concentrating of the pretty packaging ather than serious issues that have affected the game since my Eve day one,
They dont even interact any more with the player base apart from copy pasting petition refusals and accepting staff complaints they refuse to update you about or even confirming reciept.
Another brilliant way of keeping the player base and subscribers happy - well done CCP |
Oftherocks
Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 07:56:00 -
[3216]
Originally by: Halleck Gurney This sounds like a plan of Dr. Evil
"Dr. Evil" ... and then we will cancel the ghosttraining forcing all of them to permanent payment plans, making us millions, MUHAHAHAHA ...
"Nr. 1" ... and what if they decide to leave Dr. Evil ?
"Dr. Evil" ... shyte ... hello people, need the info !!!!
This made me smile, thank you. |
WeightedCompanionCube
Aperture Science Enrichment Center
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 07:57:00 -
[3217]
Originally by: Lustralis
But of course, a lot of people with ghost training accounts are going to cancel them, so I don't think CCP are doing this for the money! Way to shoot yourself in the foot.
No, people who have invested time, money and effort will not simply throw that away out of spite. Accounts will be consolidated first and characters trained to a point where they are useful rather then a path with as many long skills as possible to save money. |
Gara Al'Malik
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 08:00:00 -
[3218]
Originally by: Rosetterial Worst changes ever... worst excuse ever... and made the most interesting MMO turning the worst ever...
It's been months since I've switch over from WoW to Eve, and one of the MAIN REASON of doing so... is the Ghost training. We are all adult and have a day job. I'll like to have the option of un-subscribing for 1-2 months and have training going when I'm uber busy with work and unable to log in... this change CCP made, is really sad.
Removing ghost training made EVE from most interesting to worst? Right. So the best part of eve is that skill level number going up? In that case if you have a job, paying the small monthly fee for the number to rise shouldn't be a problem. |
Pallidum Treponema
Body Count Inc.
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 08:02:00 -
[3219]
I don't ghost train. At least not intentionally. I do, however, pay via GTCs, and I DO renew my accounts (a significant amount) as soon as I find out that they have expired - this usually happens the first time I log in to them after they have expired.
As an example: I logged into my dread alt yesterday. It turned out that this alt had expired on the 10th. During this time, I was training some unimportant skill that took about 6-7 days to finish. I both needed to change said skill, and actually use the dread.
I still pay via the huge batch of 90 day GTCs that I bought when CCP changed over to 60 day GTCs. This means that I ghost trained for about 8% of the time that I paid for the account.
Now, to me, that's not a huge deal. I'm willing to pay for the extra time. Heck, if I wasn't willing to pay, I wouldn't run so many accounts, now would I?
The issue for me is that I'm no longer able to predict my skill training. Take my builder character for instance. If I want to build those new T2 Dreads that are coming out in the Unbelievian Age patch in Undefember, I may need Capital Construction 5. Since I usually build in weeklong batches, that's anywhere between 0 and 7 days I might miss out on, due to the account expiring. Let's say I was expecting to finish this skill two days before the patch, but now end up finishing five days AFTER the patch, I will lose out on a significant amount of revenue from the first few sales.
In most cases, it's not a huge issue, but it does screw with the predictability of skill training. I will either need to go over to a credit card subscription (which I won't, since I prefer the ability to simply drop an account without having it automatically drain my credit cards), or keep track of expiration dates for my accounts.
This is a hassle, which makes eve less enjoyable. This hassle will not make me stop playing, but it is likely to make me drop a few accounts. |
Clansworth
Burning Sky Labs
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 08:04:00 -
[3220]
WOW... just.. wow.. this is the most prolific whining I've seen to date, and I've seen a LOT of nerfs come and pass. I guess I don't really lament the loss of most of you, as it seems the players affected by this change are the people who simply want to fly the biggest baddest thing, but don't actually enjoy the game other than that. What is wrong with actually PLAYING a game while you are training up for something else?
Apparently, (and I didn't think this would be so, until seeing this thread), this change is for the better, as it will weed out a bit more of the immature element.
Also, realize, that I, and others, have actually asked for this change. It was the single biggest argument against any sort of training queue system, so many CASUAL players would benefit from this change, as it would allow them to then go on and implement a queue system to actually HELP the training.
As for the talk of 'lies' etc, apparently those people have never worked for any sort of mid-sized office, and just assume that every single person there knows what every other person is doing. The problem here is that the documentation group wrote up docs to reflect the way the game currently exists, which makes sense. I find it totally acceptable that the people who DESIGNED the game don't go back and read the documentation. I would think they'd know how to play, so how would they have seen this contradiction?
to sum it up... get a grip people.. |
|
Arrs Grazznic
Poena Executive Solutions
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 08:08:00 -
[3221]
Originally by: CCP t0rfifrans Statement
OK, so I guess that this is a done deal.
I have never used 'ghost training' in the 3 and a bit years of play, however it is a feature that would have encouraged me to return once I stop playing. Without it there is less incentive to return. But, it looks like this has gone, so probably no point whining about it.
On the other hand, can CCP please let us know what they plan to do with the rest of the 'active' actions from unsubscribed accounts? For example, market orders, research and manufacturing jobs, corp membership, share dividends, etc.
Personally, given the ghost training change, I think that that market orders and all research and manufacturing jobs should be cancelled once an account expires and free up the research slots.
Cheers, Arrs
|
Counter Spy
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 08:09:00 -
[3222]
CSM Meeting 2008/10/12:
[ 2008.10.12 17:32:14 ] Inanna Zuni > outside of these issues, there has been much discussin on boards, in game channels and OOG entirely about the whole financial system as it affects Iceland. Whilst it is clear that CCP's majority income is USD and EUR I believe a front of site statement [ 2008.10.12 17:32:14 ] Inanna Zuni > about CCP's / EVE's status would be very helpful and negate most of the opinion that people don't want to risk paying if things go wrong and they lose their money. (We accept that you as individuals have worries too, btw!) [ 2008.10.12 17:32:16 ] Inanna Zuni > - [ 2008.10.12 17:32:39 ] Inanna Zuni > (There has been nothing on CCP corporate site either iie no press releases etc) [ 2008.10.12 17:32:43 ] Inanna Zuni > - now - [ 2008.10.12 17:33:06 ] CCP Dr.EyjoG > Was that END for you Inanna? [ 2008.10.12 17:33:13 ] Inanna Zuni > yes [ 2008.10.12 17:33:41 ] Inanna Zuni > (actually, not quite ... [ 2008.10.12 17:33:49 ] CCP Dr.EyjoG > Good point Inanna and we have been discussing internally to put this on our website [ 2008.10.12 17:33:56 ] Inanna Zuni > there have been on forum statements about the income, but not where it has been put [ 2008.10.12 17:34:03 ] Inanna Zuni > but there are definitely people 'out there' worried [ 2008.10.12 17:34:09 ] Inanna Zuni > -end again- [ 2008.10.12 17:34:16 ] Inanna Zuni > YOu should, asap [ 2008.10.12 17:34:26 ] CCP Dr.EyjoG > To those people the CSM should say that CCP is not affected by this crisis [ 2008.10.12 17:34:44 ] CCP Dr.EyjoG > due to our income being US dollars and Euro [ 2008.10.12 17:34:47 ] LaVista Vista > /emote nods, has already done so [ 2008.10.12 17:34:55 ] Inanna Zuni > I can concur that your income is 'safe' (relatively!) as in USD and EUR but the question is where is it banked; is *that* safe [ 2008.10.12 17:34:59 ] CCP Dr.EyjoG > so we are actually one of the companies that is doing very well in iceland these days [ 2008.10.12 17:35:09 ] Dierdra Vaal > that sort of thing is really your job tho ... since the CSM "isn't supposed to deal with out of game issues" (see gametime cards) :P [ 2008.10.12 17:35:15 ] Inanna Zuni > is it in Kaupthing or offshore though? risk level is evrything [ 2008.10.12 17:35:32 ] CCP Dr.EyjoG > You are right and we will get the message out there, but need your assistance |
spinarax
Privateers
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 08:15:00 -
[3223]
I h8 u CCP! >.<
*I dont really have anything contructive to post, just want to bump the post count |
Traxio Nacho
Dark Knights of Deneb Against ALL Authorities
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 08:22:00 -
[3224]
Originally by: Nate D I would be very surprised it CCP went through with this today. I would be taken aback by the lack of interest in customer input.
Well unfortunately I wouldn't, have CCP even said if this patch today is extended DT? They seem to have gone very quiet on this.
Also where is this thread now as its not where it was? |
Gara Al'Malik
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 08:23:00 -
[3225]
Edited by: Gara Al''Malik on 15/10/2008 08:24:28
Originally by: spinarax I h8 u CCP! >.<
*I dont really have anything contructive to post, just want to bump the post count
Yes, keep the drama up! I still need more sweet whiner tears. They are the best pod fluid, as someone said. |
maarud
Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 08:27:00 -
[3226]
Why don't you just go ahead and implement time based training all together and bring in the XP grind. |
Abriana Overlord
Evolution Band of Brothers
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 08:30:00 -
[3227]
well between this and the other thread we have over 150 pages of peeps unhappy. Think that must set a record of some kind.
If peeps ghost train, then my thinking is they must sub to changes skills?, also if they actually want use their chars they have to uhmm ... sub
Personally not an issue for me as all of my account are active. For some I can see the issue this causes them.
This was a feature of the game call a bug if you will but it was never marketed in that fashion. Now CCP you obviously have the right to change that it is your game after all and your business. I think one of the issues you are seeing here is people are just seeing through it as a way to get more money out of the players.
I am unsure how you calcuted the business case behind this decision, just hope you are ready for peeps to leave. I have spoken with many ingame friends about this. effectively this has pushed them past the tipping poin so expect at least some of them cancel their accounts (4 already have)
hope it works out for you, the policy may not be wrong, but its implementation was poor. peeps would never be happy with this change but a more straight forward honest approach would have been appreciated ie "In line with EULA we are implementing a change, although not a bug we have decided to stop ghost training, this will be implemented on xx/xx/xx. |
Cazzah
Caldari Eve University Ivy League
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 08:51:00 -
[3228]
Edited by: Cazzah on 15/10/2008 08:51:43 It requires a special effort to make a PR failure this epic -_- And also /agree with above poster. |
Counter Spy
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 08:52:00 -
[3229]
hope it works out for you, the policy may not be wrong, but its implementation was poor.
You are wrong. Not was the implementation poor, the idea was poor.
Eve different from anyone else MMO. A very long skill 2-3 months here in game. Oh i wrong not one skill just a lvl of skill. And the old players cant learning anything just long skills. That is too boring after a time. The player cant get anything for few months ago. He need rest, but he resting the character, he not will get anymore too. Here the characters can't maximize their skills like in Wow or in any MMO. The old playful community preserves the game though, a new player comes hardly already because 5 year ones are the games already and it was lost on and they do not come back long already, it will be equivalent to the fall of the game if CCP loses the old players |
Sandze
Caldari
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 08:53:00 -
[3230]
It is interesting that CCP CEO thinks of this situation? Or they have hidden topic specially from his attention? |
|
Cycrow
Quaver Inc.
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 08:54:00 -
[3231]
First 90day GTCs get nerfed, so now we buy 60 day GTCs for the same money we were buying the 90day ones.
Then Ghost Training goes bye bye.
Next is capsuleers' turn, they 'll start nerfing the number of their accounts.
|
NereSky
Gallente Trinity Nova Trinity Nova Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 08:57:00 -
[3232]
Originally by: Sandze It is interesting that CCP CEO thinks of this situation? Or they have hidden topic specially from his attention?
Hes to busy jumping up and down on the rug to make space for this to be swept under :) as time go's on that rug is getting harder to hide things under even with Ark's help |
Stormwind Bloodfeather
Minmatar Sogdian Traders Inc
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 09:00:00 -
[3233]
Originally by: WeightedCompanionCube
Originally by: Lustralis
But of course, a lot of people with ghost training accounts are going to cancel them, so I don't think CCP are doing this for the money! Way to shoot yourself in the foot.
No, people who have invested time, money and effort will not simply throw that away out of spite. Accounts will be consolidated first and characters trained to a point where they are useful rather then a path with as many long skills as possible to save money.
I shut down 8 everquest accounts, with most of the 6-7 characters on each of the accounts time geared, after one too many slaps in the face by sony. People who invest time and money in a game DO throw it all away when they get disrespected enough by the company who's wages they help pay.
Your an Optimist, this is good, i'm a pessimist. I see a trend, and from my experience with MMORPG companies I doubt this trend will be reversed. It starts with the subtle creep of assuming your subscribers are idiots and you can shit all over them at will. For a while this thinking works, but eventually all it leaves in the game is isk/gold/plat farmers and the few die hards who are too stuborn, or are to addicted to stop putting up with it.
Stormwind |
Zebs Clone
Minmatar Zebra Corp Chain of Chaos
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 09:01:00 -
[3234]
this is very simply ccp showing the player base that they are only intrested in cash, they want more from every player. milk the cash cows for as long as we can
you ccp have lost all respect with me and most of the other players i share my eve time with. the number of alt account this is going to drive in to the coldness of the dead account pile will be quite shocking.
R.I.P. all and any respect we once showed you. you have shown us that cash and lies are the order of the new f**ked up vision that is CCP |
Fresh Prince
Aliastra
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 09:02:00 -
[3235]
Subscription successfully canceled
Click here to continue
|
Cosy Ceaon
Gallente Aliastra
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 09:04:00 -
[3236]
http://dl.eve-files.com/media/0810/disabling-ghost-training-the-blog-edition-page-0-103.zip
103 page of this thread in zip just maybe CCP delete this thread |
Gabriel Virtus
Cassandra's Light Caeruleum Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 09:05:00 -
[3237]
Edited by: Gabriel Virtus on 15/10/2008 09:12:05 I understand that this is a business, but few businesses remain viable when they treat their customers like utter trash, lie to them, and provide terrible customer support. The way that CCP has dealt with this issue is the most troubling part of this fiasco. I have never used ghosttraining, although I might have used it by accident for 1 day here and 2 days there when I was busy and didn't realize that my subscription should cancel.
Anyway, my thoughts on getting rid of ghost training:
1. Ghost training is not a "bug" in the game. Not only has it been around since EVE began, it was also a FEATURE listed in the player guide that I read before I decided to start playing EVE. Please do not try and cloud this issue, you all know this claim is utter nonsense and frankly, anything you say otherwise is a bit of a stretch considering the amount of respect you all just lost.
2. As a viable option to raise revenue, it will not succeed. Many people have alt accounts, sometimes 4-5. These people cannot ghost train their characters for months because very few skills take months to train, they have to RESUBSCRIBE in order to change skills. The subscriptions of these accounts, even ones that are "abusing" ghost training are intermetant at worse, with the player still subscribing a significant amount of time. With this change, and the broader economic problems many of us face, this intermittent subscription is no longer viable. I for one will have to cancel my alt account because I do not play it enough to warrant the subscription fee. It seems that many people, especially with a few alt accounts will be in the same boat as I am and will cancel these accounts permanently. Intermittent subscription = more money than no subscriptions at all. I am sure the number of accounts will decrease while people pay to have their alts switched to their main's account. And only pay 1 subscription fee.
3. The claim that inactive characters bog down your database is frankly a joke, if the training numbers of a few thousand ghosttraining accounts bog down your system, you have much much bigger problems than this could ever fix. This claim is obviously another BS cloud you are trying to throw up. Sometimes I wonder if you think we are all kids?
4. The claim that players should not progress when they do not play is a strange claim from EVE. The point of this game, the point that sets it apart from all other MMOs is that you do gain skills when you are not online. I am not sure why this seems to be such a hard concept to understand. The removal of the ghost training option seems to be counter to this major aspect of EVE Online, that EVE and real life can be done simultaneously without being significantly hurt. This is just making EVE seem more and more like WoW.
5. Doing this major change with 2 days notice, especially after a "power of two" campaign seems a bit underhanded. Why didn't you tell players that their alt accounts you were marketing them would absolutely not have this feature, especially when you knew this was going to happen during the marketing campaign.
I, for one, am not quitting EVE. While this issue has made me lose a lot of respect for CCP in general and be suspicious of any further comments they have on topic, it is not enough to make me quit entirely, but I will be canceling my 2 alt accounts completely. I think this is the WRONG direction for this game to be going and I think this will end up hurting the game and the company in the long run. If this sort of behavior continues in the future, I will leaving the EVE universe for good. The camel's back is almost broken.
Anyway, Flame on -GV
Edit: I have seen this trend destroy MMORPGs for nearly a decade. EA and Origin Systems destroyed Ultima Online through their money grubbing and utter lack of interest with their players, Sony destroyed Everquest with the same thing. It is sad that I think CCP and EVE Online is going down the same path. |
RedSplat
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 09:06:00 -
[3238]
Eh....POV from a new player: that second account i was thinking about? Not going to happen. |
Donniello Darkini
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 09:07:00 -
[3239]
In my opinion, this is a huge mistake.
I have only used Ghost Training once and that was this past month because of money issues. I have always thought it was a great feature. The only reason that I haven't used it more is that I am active with my accounts in other ways. It is good to know it is there. Also, it is good to know that friends can take a break and come back with a skill trained. It benefits everyone. Taking it away hurts all sorts of players on different levels.
Since skills are time based and not action based, it seems a benefit to keep Ghost Training. If people want to keep their skill training going, for the most part, they would have to resubscribe around 6 times a year. That is still 6 months of money per year per account - $90. Now you are going to have people consolidating accounts, which you will make the initial transfer fee (if they consolidate), but after that you lose that $90 per year.
I don't see why Ghost Training is unfair to people that don't use it. They have (had) the opportunity to use it if they wished. They just decided to make ISK, blow things up, mine, etc.
CCP, your reasons are sad, sad, sad... 1. With the economy the way it is and another recent change you have made, you decided that Ghost Training was the cause of the decline in you making money? Do you think that people would not have unsubscribed their accounts during a time of financial issues if Ghost Training wasn't enabled? I, personally, would rather buy a loaf of bread, a container of milk, and a stick of butter to survive than pay $15 for a game. 2. Ghost Training has been a feature whether people use it or not for 5 years. Why lie to us? 3. Server lag...pfft, whatever.
Please change your mind, we will all forgive you if you do. Don't let pride stand in the way. I foresee a great loss if you go through with this. If you need money raise the subscription price by a dollar or two. ...OR, is that just around the corner, too? |
OneSock
Crown Industries
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 09:07:00 -
[3240]
From the blog:
Quote: we were essentially supporting and maintaining a large number of customers that weren't paying us regular subscriptions. That's not fair towards CCP as a service provider and it's not fair towards other players that pay a subscription
I mentioned this in an earlier post but I want to bring up this issue about fairness.
As a casual player I pay my 2month GTC same as any other player. However due to work and RL stuff I may only get what 5-6 game hours a week out of my subscription. Others may get 10-12 hours a week or more. I'm effectively paying double per hour actually played, subsidizing others who are on-line while I cannot be. Do you really think that's fair to me ?
Ghost training goes some way to make up for that. If CCP don't want casual players like me then let them say so. There's other games out there for me to play.
Until we pay per hour online don't talk to me about what is fair. |
|
Kerfira
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 09:14:00 -
[3241]
Originally by: OneSock As a casual player I pay my 2month GTC same as any other player. However due to work and RL stuff I may only get what 5-6 game hours a week out of my subscription. Others may get 10-12 hours a week or more. I'm effectively paying double per hour actually played, subsidizing others who are on-line while I cannot be. Do you really think that's fair to me ?
Yes. It is completely fair. EVE is not charged per hour online, it is charge for the OPTION to be online for 1/2/3/6/12 months at a time. Whether you CHOOSE to be online is up to you!
YOU are the one who CHOOSE to only be online 5-6 hours per week, so YOU have obviously decided that this is fair (otherwise you wouldn't pay).
Originally by: OneSock Ghost training goes some way to make up for that. If CCP don't want casual players like me then let them say so. There's other games out there for me to play.
So because you CHOOSE not to use your subscription, CCP should give you free stuff? I'd like you to try to make that argument with an auto rental company.... "Well, I've not used the car I leased from you as much as I could, so I think you should give me some free gas!"
And no, if you like spaceship MMO's there AREN'T any other MMO games for you to play
|
Freezehunter
Gallente O.W.N. Corp OWN Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 09:15:00 -
[3242]
Originally by: The Ubernomicon
More like "OWNED Alliance".
That's alot coming from a guy that is in a corp called "eight year old girls", mister "i am a goon, phear me..." |
Zacheria Malfor
Gallente Pernicious Creed
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 09:21:00 -
[3243]
Edited by: Zacheria Malfor on 15/10/2008 09:38:57 CCP's stance is evident through the lack of responses in order to try reconcile the player base and their tactics of making quick alterations to various pieces of information dotted around the Eve-O website in regards to ghost training being a feature. Add onto this the convenient "disappearance" of this thread in the information portal, it appears their stance is firm.
I have been playing Eve for over 5 years and have taken a few breaks in my time, in all honesty I have only utilised ghost training over the past year due to real life commitments which have affected the amount of play time I have. One thing that kept me coming back was that I knew my skill was done, however, in saying this I have come back before hand when skills haven't been training during my inactivity.
An honest answer from CCP in regards to their feelings on why this needs to be done is obviously too much to ask. I have to agree with the statement that since all the old devs and community support disappeared the game has taken a turn for the worse.
The number one thing though which disgusts me in regards to this change is the attitude CCP have taken. The way it has been done has been is the subject of countless posts here so there is little point reiterating this.
In the unlikely event a member of CCP is reading this who actually cares about the community, stop treating us like morons, be honest with us... do the rational thing... TALK TO US. Don't treat us like children playing in your sand pit, treat us like adults paying for a product and service which you provide.
I would ask for this change to be delayed and subjected to review, but again this is probably too much to ask. I will hang around in Eve for a while longer, it is still one of the best MMO's on the market but my faith in the development team, the customer support team and CCP as a company has all but vanished.
To those who will no doubt claim this is an emo whine or "can I have your stuff", grow up. If you cannot see there is something wrong in the approach CCP has taken in regards to this change then maybe you need to open your eyes.
Edit - Typo
/Zacheria Malfor |
Rhiannon Le'Tent
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 09:21:00 -
[3244]
Edited by: Rhiannon Le''Tent on 15/10/2008 09:39:32 Edited by: Rhiannon Le''Tent on 15/10/2008 09:26:45 CCP should change their name name to CCCP (USSR) for their underhanded "Stalin" like tactics.
1) "we're fixing a bug" even though it's sold as a feature in the player guide. We are not idiots CCP we all know it's just a money grab. 2) The feature mentioned above no longer appears in the player guide hmm there's a surprise. 3) This forum for some "inexplicable" reason has lost it's main link on the information portal page, so if you didn't already have it in you browser history bad luck you can't view or post regarding it.. again why are we not surprised. 4) Last year's "boost patch" complete with hidden nerfs
For speaking against the establishment I expect the secret police to arrive momentarily.
Personally I don't give a rats about the change, have never ghost trained, I have 2 fully paid up accounts a year in advance. Well until next march anyway.
Why not just tell the "Truth" behind the change instead of trying to get us believe the poorly though up crap that you have fed us in way of an explanation. I know six year olds that could come with a more believable lie than that.
Marketing departments the world over do this all the time, come up with a "way to make more money," then they go ahead and announce it, without first consulting with anyone in in the company that has common sense and asking "will this work?" Obviously your marketing department is just as inept as the one at the company I work for. Our marketing department came up with a way to flush 200k down the toilet, I think if this change is implemented and you only loose 200k of revenue you should consider yourselves lucky. You need to fire your marketing dept and hire someone with common sense that actually plays & pays for the game. eg. Any of the commentators from the EVE PvP tournaments could do a far better job I'm sure, or at least employ them as a sounding board with veto power over the dumb asses that come up with these great ideas.
edited to fix spelling
|
Charis D'Asgar
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 09:22:00 -
[3245]
I wonÆt talk about fairness and so on... I'm upset :(
If CCP really cares about their customers - than let them to learn skills in "half-inactive" state for less payment, without possibility to go online and play. It would be like mobile operators keep you phone number for you for less pay without letting use it for calls. Any time, player see, that he couldn't play for a long time - he switches his account to that state and continues learning skills without playing... It may be needs restrictions like - not more often then once per month and not longer than a month or so... Should be appropriate decision.
PS. Sorry, my English is not so good. |
Jane Rambo
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 09:29:00 -
[3246]
I would like to take this time to formally invite CCP Wrangler and t0rfifrans to join GoonFleet!
These pubbies are all drowning in salty tears shed from their own eyes! |
Ayrion Centare
Caldari
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 09:32:00 -
[3247]
Edited by: Ayrion Centare on 15/10/2008 09:39:44
Originally by: Mallikanth CCP asking people to pay to use their services? How outrageous
The outrage is how CCP managed this "bug."
Their explanation is that ghost training was the result of a bug all along and for years, for whatever technical reason, they couldn't fix it.
This bug was then documented in their player manual as a feature for people with RL issues and for those that needed a break from Eve.
They turned an unintended bug into a free service for those who purchased a subscription to Eve without telling subscribers it's actually a bug all along which caused the unintended free service and it will no longer exist once the bug is resolved.
For those of us who purchased a subscription to Eve with this feature in mind as a great way to balance life and a MMO without needlessly wasting money on accounts sitting idle, this is an important selling point.
Now, CCP's excuse claims the bug being documented in the new player manual as a feature was due to poor communication and at this I am especially outraged about...
They are saying that, for all this time, they have been actively trying to resolve the bug and, for all this time, they have documented the bug as a feature, all without anyone in the company putting the two together and figuring out the impact this will have once the bug gets resolved?
Ghost training isn't a little feature hidden away somewhere, it is an incredibly unique and distinctive feature among the MMO community. For anyone who did some research about EVE before purchasing the time-based skill training feature and the ghost training feature literally set EVE apart from everyone else.
And now CCP is saying it was a bug all along and they made a mistake by documenting it, which persisted in their documentation for years and became well known as a unique and distinctive feature, and now they wish to charge for it so all that was said and done in the past should now be forgotten and no compromise will be made for their mistake which had persisted so long.
This is the outrage for me.
CCP has the right to change and charge for whatever they want when it comes to Eve, I don't disagree with that, but the way in which they have conducted themselves with this particular change has been dishonest and deceptive.
EDiTS: Typos |
Max Khaos
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 09:32:00 -
[3248]
If your not payin then your not playin ........
No if's or but's .......
Pay up or shutup ... |
Oftherocks
Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 09:39:00 -
[3249]
Originally by: Max Khaos If your not payin then your not playin ........
No if's or but's .......
Pay up or shutup ...
Playin' ain't gettin' sp, if you think it is you really don't get eve. |
Leica Stroganow
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 09:42:00 -
[3250]
Originally by: Kerfira
Originally by: OneSock As a casual player I pay my 2month GTC same as any other player. However due to work and RL stuff I may only get what 5-6 game hours a week out of my subscription. Others may get 10-12 hours a week or more. I'm effectively paying double per hour actually played, subsidizing others who are on-line while I cannot be. Do you really think that's fair to me ?
Yes. It is completely fair. EVE is not charged per hour online, it is charge for the OPTION to be online for 1/2/3/6/12 months at a time. Whether you CHOOSE to be online is up to you!
YOU are the one who CHOOSE to only be online 5-6 hours per week, so YOU have obviously decided that this is fair (otherwise you wouldn't pay).
Originally by: OneSock Ghost training goes some way to make up for that. If CCP don't want casual players like me then let them say so. There's other games out there for me to play.
So because you CHOOSE not to use your subscription, CCP should give you free stuff? I'd like you to try to make that argument with an auto rental company.... "Well, I've not used the car I leased from you as much as I could, so I think you should give me some free gas!"
And no, if you like spaceship MMO's there AREN'T any other MMO games for you to play
Are you an CCP alt ? |
|
Rinaldo Titano
Caldari Caldari Provisions
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 09:43:00 -
[3251]
Originally by: Ayrion Centare Edited by: Ayrion Centare on 15/10/2008 09:39:44
Originally by: Mallikanth CCP asking people to pay to use their services? How outrageous
The outrage is how CCP managed this "bug."
Their explanation is that ghost training was the result of a bug all along and for years, for whatever technical reason, they couldn't fix it.
This bug was then documented in their player manual as a feature for people with RL issues and for those that needed a break from Eve.
They turned an unintended bug into a free service for those who purchased a subscription to Eve without telling subscribers it's actually a bug all along which caused the unintended free service and it will no longer exist once the bug is resolved.
For those of us who purchased a subscription to Eve with this feature in mind as a great way to balance life and a MMO without needlessly wasting money on accounts sitting idle, this is an important selling point.
Now, CCP's excuse claims the bug being documented in the new player manual as a feature was due to poor communication and at this I am especially outraged about...
They are saying that, for all this time, they have been actively trying to resolve the bug and, for all this time, they have documented the bug as a feature, all without anyone in the company putting the two together and figuring out the impact this will have once the bug gets resolved?
Ghost training isn't a little feature hidden away somewhere, it is an incredibly unique and distinctive feature among the MMO community. For anyone who did some research about EVE before purchasing the time-based skill training feature and the ghost training feature literally set EVE apart from everyone else.
And now CCP is saying it was a bug all along and they made a mistake by documenting it, which persisted in their documentation for years and became well known as a unique and distinctive feature, and now they wish to charge for it so all that was said and done in the past should now be forgotten and no compromise will be made for their mistake which had persisted so long.
This is the outrage for me.
CCP has the right to change and charge for whatever they want when it comes to Eve, I don't disagree with that, but the way in which they have conducted themselves with this particular change has been dishonest and deceptive.
EDiTS: Typos
This and 10000x This |
Bukkaboo
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 09:44:00 -
[3252]
CCP made a game, E-I-E-I-O. And on that game they made a nerf, E-I-E-I-O. With a failure here and a failure there Here a whine whine, there a whine whine, everywhere a whine whine CCP had a game, E-I-E-I-O... |
OneSock
Crown Industries
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 09:44:00 -
[3253]
Originally by: Kerfira
So because you CHOOSE not to use your subscription, CCP should give you free stuff? I'd like you to try to make that argument with an auto rental company.... "Well, I've not used the car I leased from you as much as I could, so I think you should give me some free gas!"
And no, if you like spaceship MMO's there AREN'T any other MMO games for you to play
It's not so much a choice as simply not having the time. And yes I may choose to ditch Eve with this change as it's simply not worth the sub anymore. There are other things besides spaceships ;)
But to use the auto rental example is completely wrong. You pay a fixed fee because while that resource (the car) is with you, it cannot be given to anyone else to generate revenue.
With Eve, no resource is being drained while a player is off-line. CCP lose nothing.
As another example (a better one). You can get a DVD rental deal where you pay a sub for unlimited rentals. If your a heavy user this works out well. If your not then it's not great value. For this reason a lot of DVD rental companies provide a credit system where you pay a low fixed fee per rental. Maybe CCP should give it some thought. |
Leica Stroganow
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 09:45:00 -
[3254]
Originally by: Charis D'Asgar I wonÆt talk about fairness and so on... I'm upset :(
If CCP really cares about their customers - than let them to learn skills in "half-inactive" state for less payment, without possibility to go online and play. It would be like mobile operators keep you phone number for you for less pay without letting use it for calls. Any time, player see, that he couldn't play for a long time - he switches his account to that state and continues learning skills without playing... It may be needs restrictions like - not more often then once per month and not longer than a month or so... Should be appropriate decision.
PS. Sorry, my English is not so good.
no prob i understand you
But CCP not even cares to give us a standing about this "case" this would be a way |
Georn
VIRTUAL LIFE VANGUARD Intrepid Crossing
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 09:46:00 -
[3255]
Originally by: Stormwind Bloodfeather
I shut down 8 everquest accounts, with most of the 6-7 characters on each of the accounts time geared, after one too many slaps in the face by sony. People who invest time and money in a game DO throw it all away when they get disrespected enough by the company who's wages they help pay.
wow.. Kudos.. All at the same time or in the course of years?.. If you used 8 EQ2 Accounts at the same time... Can I have your stuff when you leave rl? (c; |
Azuraito
Caldari Capital Produce Free Trade Zone.
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 09:48:00 -
[3256]
Any chance CCP could post how many account were disabled from training?
|
Leica Stroganow
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 09:48:00 -
[3257]
Originally by: Max Khaos If your not payin then your not playin ........
No if's or but's .......
Pay up or shutup ...
CCP alt too? |
Malaan Tabfassh
The Flowing Penguins
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 09:49:00 -
[3258]
No good.
I could have written it a bit more detailed, but chances are high someone did it already on the last 107 pages for me. |
Damned Force
Minmatar Republic Military School
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 09:50:00 -
[3259]
Edited by: Damned Force on 15/10/2008 09:50:28
Originally by: Leica Stroganow
Originally by: Max Khaos If your not payin then your not playin ........
No if's or but's .......
Pay up or shutup ...
CCP alt too?
Not sure. maybe just an a.s.s.h.o.l.e.
or both |
Leica Stroganow
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 09:51:00 -
[3260]
Originally by: Azuraito Any chance CCP could post how many account were disabled from training?
I¦ve reportet your post
As "interesting" |
|
Patric Riegns
Minmatar Lazy Twats Inc
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 09:51:00 -
[3261]
Open letter to CCP
I have posted exactly once on the forum in my time in the game and that was about 50 pages ago in this topic. I used the words real or imagined in reference to lying and contempt. Thank you for clearing that up and leaving the one option.
Your actions in the events leading up to and including the continued absence of this thread after 24hrs of customer dissatisfaction are sickening.
Lets start with the removal of 30 day GTC move onto the power of two promotion and lastly the removal of ghost training. Now there are two possible scenarios there. That you are again demonstrating levels of incompetence breathtaking in there scope or you are happy to obtain money be deception.
The fact that the level of disgust generated by your actions is not reflected correctly on the Eve Information Portal can no longer be considered accidental. This is now a deliberate attempt to bury this. Explain how a company delivering a high tech product cannot solve a forum problem in 16 hours and counting.
I and many others unaffected by the ghost training are watching this and evaluating whether we actually want to do business with a company like yours any longer. Currently the answer is no.
|
Faekurias
Black Legion Command
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 09:51:00 -
[3262]
Edited by: Faekurias on 15/10/2008 09:55:45
Originally by: Rhiannon Le'Tent You need to fire your marketing dept and hire someone with common sense that actually plays & pays for the game. eg. Any of the commentators from the EVE PvP tournaments could do a far better job I'm sure, or at least employ them as a sounding board with veto power over the dumb asses that come up with these great ideas.
QFT
Edit: also, about ghost-training in general: Don't really care about this change, don't think I've ever deliberately used it. Although I once paid for several months without the ability to log in and change skill. So paid for those months with no skill in training. |
Alexi Borg
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 09:53:00 -
[3263]
How many people are as ****ed off as I am about the no ghost training patch? Just as an economic crisis hits the world, these guys have to pull a punch in the balls and do that to screw us out of a few extra bucks. Put it this way, a guy's subscription is running out and he's short on cash, well EVE was so damn cool because even if he didn't have cash, he had a little time to get some without wasting training time. The way I see it, if your not playing the game, you shouldn't have to pay $15 to let a little skill training clock run. Hell, it's why my friend was about to play EVE online, because he wasn't paying $15 just to train long skills! Now he tells me he'll never play. Why did you have to do this? Yes, I understand that people who play the game every month have to pay $15 for the skill training, but they are PLAYING THE GAME!!! People who take time off to skill train are NOT PLAYING THE GAME!!! You pay $15 TO PLAY THE GAME!!! I hope the company reconsiders their decision, because I doubt I will find it worth wile to continue playing the game when I'm short on cast, and can feel like I didn't waste time when I do get some money. I would love to hear arguments from other people on why they think I'm wrong, or hear people who support my thoughts. |
dorannl
Gallente Mystery Inc
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 09:54:00 -
[3264]
Originally by: Patric Riegns Open letter to CCP
The fact that the level of disgust generated by your actions is not reflected correctly on the Eve Information Portal can no longer be considered accidental. This is now a deliberate attempt to bury this. Explain how a company delivering a high tech product cannot solve a forum problem in 16 hours and counting.
its really strange that a internet company cant fix there own forum |
Charlene Choi
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 09:54:00 -
[3265]
I wonder whois in charge of the business strategy and development for CCP, but ****ing off existing customers isnt so smart. the cost of getting new customers is twice as high for keeping the existing ones. so go figure.
|
Azuraito
Caldari Capital Produce Free Trade Zone.
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 09:55:00 -
[3266]
Originally by: Ayrion Centare CCP has the right to change and charge for whatever they want when it comes to Eve, I don't disagree with that, but the way in which they have conducted themselves with this particular change has been dishonest and deceptive.
This i have to agree with, even though i welcome this change, CCP are a dishonest bunch!
|
Leica Stroganow
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 09:56:00 -
[3267]
Originally by: Alexi Borg How many people are as ****ed off as I am about the no ghost training patch? Just as an economic crisis hits the world, these guys have to pull a punch in the balls and do that to screw us out of a few extra bucks. Put it this way, a guy's subscription is running out and he's short on cash, well EVE was so damn cool because even if he didn't have cash, he had a little time to get some without wasting training time. The way I see it, if your not playing the game, you shouldn't have to pay $15 to let a little skill training clock run. Hell, it's why my friend was about to play EVE online, because he wasn't paying $15 just to train long skills! Now he tells me he'll never play. Why did you have to do this? Yes, I understand that people who play the game every month have to pay $15 for the skill training, but they are PLAYING THE GAME!!! People who take time off to skill train are NOT PLAYING THE GAME!!! You pay $15 TO PLAY THE GAME!!! I hope the company reconsiders their decision, because I doubt I will find it worth wile to continue playing the game when I'm short on cast, and can feel like I didn't waste time when I do get some money. I would love to hear arguments from other people on why they think I'm wrong, or hear people who support my thoughts.
Tripple siggned;hugged,.....wathever my english isn¦t so good to clear the point like this guy!!! THIS GUY HITS MY HEART, THIS IS WHAT THEY DO!!!! |
Aodha Khan
Minmatar The Paratwa FOUNDATI0N
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 09:58:00 -
[3268]
Unlike some, I actually pay to play. I support no Ghost training!
Those that are whining. Ask yourself this, does any other MMORPG train your char while the account is disabled? |
Naema Kali
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 09:59:00 -
[3269]
Hmm, I wonder what is better:
A) A player with 10 (or 20 or 50) accounts that reactivates them from time to time and uses ghost skilling while the accounts are inactive (reactivation = payment),
or
B) lots of players cancelling a lot of their alt accounts because they can no longer do ghost skilling?
From my point of view, ghost skilling was one of THE big and great features of Eve although personally I haven't used it very much. CCP won't earn more money by disabling this feature. I think exactly the opposite will happen: much less alt accounts that won't ever be reactivated again ( = no more payments for those accounts). |
Freezehunter
Gallente O.W.N. Corp OWN Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 10:02:00 -
[3270]
To all of those who say CCP did this just to make more money, it is true...
HOWEVER, look at companies like Blizzard, who milk the shit out of their customers (and i read some news that they want to implement a fee for changing the appearance of your character!!!!), that's just like CCP charging us money for refitting our ships...
Or another fine example is EA games, that REALLY MILK THE CRAP out of it's customers for every piece of shit expansion they make...
I bought Spore and now i found out EA wants to launch a pack with construction parts that costs TWENTY BUCKS!!!
Plus, the DRM on Spore does not allow you to install the game more than 3 times, so that means that if you have problems with ur PC, and format it and reinstall the game (that cost 50 bucks) more than 3 times, you LOSE IT AND HAVE TO BUY IT AGAIN!!!
Oh, and can you imagine Blizzard giving free WoW expansions??? HAH!
Bottom line, you cheapskate bastards, is that CCP offers us WAY MORE for our money than ANY other production company does...
So all of you shut the hell up and give CCP a break...
|
|
Xhanti
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 10:03:00 -
[3271]
Originally by: Aodha Khan Unlike some, I actually pay to play. I support no Ghost training!
Those that are whining. Ask yourself this, does any other MMORPG train your char while the account is disabled?
Then ask yourself does any other MMORPG have skills that take 30 or more days to get ONE lvl in? |
Leica Stroganow
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 10:05:00 -
[3272]
Originally by: Aodha Khan Unlike some, I actually pay to play. I support no Ghost training!
Those that are whining. Ask yourself this, does any other MMORPG train your char while the account is disabled?
No they dont...
AND THAT was the special about EVE the stressless handling of long therm trainning skills, afew friends, including me, are up to channcel afew ACC because off this, should this happen? Need this to be happen? Most off the post¦s in this forum reflekt my opingion, and CCP isn¦t even answer us.......
Sad day |
aquila heliaca
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 10:05:00 -
[3273]
Does CCP think ppl are going to change their gtc account for a full year subscription because of this? I don't think a lot of players will do that and consequently, this "bug fix" won't change much for ccp revenues. This "fix" will mainly cause a lot of annoyance.
First step to this was of course the removal of 30 day gtc's and replacing those with 60 day gtc's. Apparently, this didn't result in a satisfying way and now ghost training is removed.
CCP, i like the game and i'll keep playing it but thinking this "bug fix" will make me change to a full years subscription is very naive. And very annoying. No capital ship lvl 5 for me.
Be wise and turn this fix back. |
Counter Spy
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 10:06:00 -
[3274]
Oh i see an another option.
CCP will make a new store categories. "Ghost training" for money. 1 month for 14.99$ MUHAHAHA |
Freezehunter
Gallente O.W.N. Corp OWN Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 10:06:00 -
[3275]
Edited by: Freezehunter on 15/10/2008 10:06:35
Originally by: Xhanti
Originally by: Aodha Khan Unlike some, I actually pay to play. I support no Ghost training!
Those that are whining. Ask yourself this, does any other MMORPG train your char while the account is disabled?
Then ask yourself does any other MMORPG have skills that take 30 or more days to get ONE lvl in?
Aodha Khan does have a valid point there, Xhanti... |
Christine Cormorante
Gallente Warped Mining
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 10:07:00 -
[3276]
CCP obviously underestimated the fallout from this:
http://www.massively.com/2008/10/13/ccp-games-kills-ghost-training-on-inactive-eve-accounts/ http://vnboards.ign.com/eve_general_board/b22281/108978443/p1/ http://www.tentonhammer.com/node/46672 http://lagorama.com/eve-online-ghost-training-whisperer-getting-hoarse http://eve.allakhazam.com/sdetail.html?story=15446 http://eve.stratics.com/#29267 http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm?loadnews=11942%2FGhost%2DTraining%2Dto%2Dbe%2DDisabled&bhcp=1
As someone else proclaimed a few pages back:
This appears to be the beginning of the end. It will be for me if too many of my friends decide not to stick around. |
Mecinia Lua
Galactic Express Burning Horizons
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 10:09:00 -
[3277]
Originally by: Carsidava Nope, sorry. This doesn't wash.
If you disable skill training for inactive accounts, why aren't you also disabling market orders from inactive accounts? Why aren't you also disabling RP accumulation from inactive accounts? Why aren't you disabling dividend payouts to inactive accounts?
Why are only skill points being hit?
Sorry CCP, this is an entirely unsatisfactory answer.
I have no problems with the end of ghost training, but you do raise some interesting points, these other items perhaps should go as well. |
Rashmika Clavain
Gallente Revelation Space
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 10:10:00 -
[3278]
Edited by: Rashmika Clavain on 15/10/2008 10:15:27 Bug or not, I don't have a problem with paying to advance my account. I seem to recall doing it on every other MMO I have played.
To the whiners comparing this to SOE and the NGE, I can only presume you didn't actually experience it first hand. If you did, you'd know it's not even in the same galaxy (er no pun intended).
Originally by: Christine Cormorante CCP obviously underestimated the fallout from this:
http://www.massively.com/2008/10/13/ccp-games-kills-ghost-training-on-inactive-eve-accounts/ http://vnboards.ign.com/eve_general_board/b22281/108978443/p1/ http://www.tentonhammer.com/node/46672 http://lagorama.com/eve-online-ghost-training-whisperer-getting-hoarse http://eve.allakhazam.com/sdetail.html?story=15446 http://eve.stratics.com/#29267 http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm?loadnews=11942%2FGhost%2DTraining%2Dto%2Dbe%2DDisabled&bhcp=1
As someone else proclaimed a few pages back:
This appears to be the beginning of the end. It will be for me if too many of my friends decide not to stick around.
lol what? What fallout? You mean other websites announcing the decision? I do believe one of them described ghost trainers as "free loaders". |
Lerand Gaunt
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 10:10:00 -
[3279]
Originally by: Xhanti
Originally by: Aodha Khan Unlike some, I actually pay to play. I support no Ghost training!
Those that are whining. Ask yourself this, does any other MMORPG train your char while the account is disabled?
Then ask yourself does any other MMORPG have skills that take 30 or more days to get ONE lvl in?
One level of Carriers takes less than a day. If you meant the last level, then you should've asked "Does any other MMORPG have skills that take 30 or more days to get FULLY TRAINED in 1 area?"
How long does it take to gather full set of T8 (or what ever is the highes level if itemization they have) in WOW? 6 months? 1 year? More? |
Halleck Gurney
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 10:11:00 -
[3280]
Originally by: Aodha Khan Unlike some, I actually pay to play. I support no Ghost training!
Those that are whining. Ask yourself this, does any other MMORPG train your char while the account is disabled?
Since you mention other MMORPG, paying alone does not enable you to advance ... you still have to play.
So, if you really want to be FAIR to people who PLAY the game, skill advancement should be stopped the moment inactivity is detected while logged in. |
|
Xhanti
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 10:11:00 -
[3281]
Originally by: Freezehunter Edited by: Freezehunter on 15/10/2008 10:06:35
Originally by: Xhanti
Originally by: Aodha Khan Unlike some, I actually pay to play. I support no Ghost training!
Those that are whining. Ask yourself this, does any other MMORPG train your char while the account is disabled?
Then ask yourself does any other MMORPG have skills that take 30 or more days to get ONE lvl in?
Aodha Khan does have a valid point there, Xhanti...
I dont see it...
Sure getting 100 woodworking in final fantasy 11 takes a ages from 99 to 100 but then ur ACTIVELY doing something to get it, eve's skill system is just click the skill and wait for the timer.
Doing lvl 4 mission's with guns dont improve my gunnery Mining Veldspar doesnt improve my mining
|
Freezehunter
Gallente O.W.N. Corp OWN Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 10:11:00 -
[3282]
Originally by: Christine Cormorante
This appears to be the beginning of the end. It will be for me if too many of my friends decide not to stick around.
Ah, no worries mate, you are just an empire miner, you will not be missed :) |
Azuraito
Caldari Capital Produce Free Trade Zone.
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 10:12:00 -
[3283]
Edited by: Azuraito on 15/10/2008 10:12:17
Originally by: Christine Cormorante CCP obviously underestimated the fallout from this:
http://www.massively.com/2008/10/13/ccp-games-kills-ghost-training-on-inactive-eve-accounts/ http://vnboards.ign.com/eve_general_board/b22281/108978443/p1/ http://www.tentonhammer.com/node/46672 http://lagorama.com/eve-online-ghost-training-whisperer-getting-hoarse http://eve.allakhazam.com/sdetail.html?story=15446 http://eve.stratics.com/#29267 http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm?loadnews=11942%2FGhost%2DTraining%2Dto%2Dbe%2DDisabled&bhcp=1
As someone else proclaimed a few pages back:
This appears to be the beginning of the end. It will be for me if too many of my friends decide not to stick around.
ROFLOL - Warped Mind? |
yarrmarr
Ministry of War
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 10:13:00 -
[3284]
Originally by: Freezehunter Edited by: Freezehunter on 15/10/2008 10:06:35
Originally by: Xhanti
Originally by: Aodha Khan Unlike some, I actually pay to play. I support no Ghost training!
Those that are whining. Ask yourself this, does any other MMORPG train your char while the account is disabled?
Then ask yourself does any other MMORPG have skills that take 30 or more days to get ONE lvl in?
Aodha Khan does have a valid point there, Xhanti...
The point is that this was a unique selling point BECAUSE no other game had this. By taking it away you're essentially degrading EvE. talking about a stupid business model. |
Morty DuAquin
Caldari Quantar Swords United Front Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 10:13:00 -
[3285]
Torfi Frans Olafsson - in my oppinion you are a mere liar and betrayer.
|
Midas Man
Caldari Dzark Asylum
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 10:13:00 -
[3286]
Originally by: dorannl
Originally by: Patric Riegns Open letter to CCP
The fact that the level of disgust generated by your actions is not reflected correctly on the Eve Information Portal can no longer be considered accidental. This is now a deliberate attempt to bury this. Explain how a company delivering a high tech product cannot solve a forum problem in 16 hours and counting.
its really strange that a internet company cant fix there own forum
Its even stranger that this was the only post affected....
Oh and before a dev comes and says it was getting too big and straining the server, The Speed nerf thread is running at 150 pages and is completely fine.
Why is it only post/threads in which CCP have annoyed a vast proportion of the custmer base that ever get these.... erm..... "Technical" issues.
me ponders...CCP moderatates the forums...is there more to this than co-incidence...CCP are an honest company they wouldn't lie.....they have never lied or been underhand...me shrugs must be co-incidence |
Turismo
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 10:15:00 -
[3287]
Originally by: Aodha Khan Unlike some, I actually pay to play. I support no Ghost training!
Those that are whining. Ask yourself this, does any other MMORPG train your char while the account is disabled?
Absolutely right, this is not offered by other games and it was one of the FEATURES that made EVE attractive to many of it's customers.
The game isn't interesting enough to me to make me want to pay and play 12 months a year for several accounts. EVE was worth it when I didn't fall behind when I took time off, but I'm not going to bother with it anymore.
You don't really care about this, and neither do I. Life goes on. |
Leica Stroganow
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 10:16:00 -
[3288]
http://lagorama.com/eve-online-ghost-training-whisperer-getting-hoarse
GOTCHA
(Go to the middle of this site)Thy Azuraito |
Flinchey
Amarr ANZAC ALLIANCE Southern Cross Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 10:17:00 -
[3289]
Edited by: Flinchey on 15/10/2008 10:17:08
Originally by: Freezehunter Edited by: Freezehunter on 15/10/2008 10:06:35
Originally by: Xhanti
Originally by: Aodha Khan Unlike some, I actually pay to play. I support no Ghost training!
Those that are whining. Ask yourself this, does any other MMORPG train your char while the account is disabled?
Then ask yourself does any other MMORPG have skills that take 30 or more days to get ONE lvl in?
Aodha Khan does have a valid point there, Xhanti...
Xhanti does have a valid point there, Freezehunter... |
Geanos
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 10:17:00 -
[3290]
Edited by: Geanos on 15/10/2008 10:17:50 LOOL, i see people defending CCP lies. Well, if you bend over, thank and ask for another one, be sure that companies like CCP and people like CCP Wrangler will always give it to you Damn, you deserve future surprises |
|
Leica Stroganow
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 10:19:00 -
[3291]
Originally by: Geanos Edited by: Geanos on 15/10/2008 10:17:50 LOOL, i see people defending CCP lies. Well, if you bend over, thank and ask for another one, be sure that companies like CCP and people like CCP Wrangler will always give it to you Damn, you deserve future surprises
QFT |
Abrazzar
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 10:20:00 -
[3292]
Yay for over 100 pages!
Now if you remove all alt account alt character posts and one man army spam you probably drop down to 20 pages, lol. Considering this affects the people with a dozen accounts the most the artificial inflation of posts by armies of alts is very likely.
Good thing CCP can see what's an alt and what's not, so they have a better sense of dimension than this thread implies.
Yay for hot air!
ZERG CCP !
|
yarrmarr
Ministry of War
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 10:23:00 -
[3293]
Originally by: Abrazzar Yay for over 100 pages!
Now if you remove all alt account alt character posts and one man army spam you probably drop down to 20 pages, lol. Considering this affects the people with a dozen accounts the most the artificial inflation of posts by armies of alts is very likely.
Good thing CCP can see what's an alt and what's not, so they have a better sense of dimension than this thread implies.
Yay for hot air!
ZERG CCP !
I hope that also removes the CCP / dev alts trying to do damage control |
Turismo
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 10:24:00 -
[3294]
Originally by: Abrazzar Yay for over 100 pages!
Now if you remove all alt account alt character posts and one man army spam you probably drop down to 20 pages, lol. Considering this affects the people with a dozen accounts the most the artificial inflation of posts by armies of alts is very likely.
Good thing CCP can see what's an alt and what's not, so they have a better sense of dimension than this thread implies.
Yay for hot air!
ZERG CCP !
People who can swallow bullshit as easily as you can tend to spew it as well. PO |
Christine Cormorante
Gallente Warped Mining
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 10:24:00 -
[3295]
Originally by: Rashmika Clavain Edited by: Rashmika Clavain on 15/10/2008 10:15:27 Bug or not, I don't have a problem with paying to advance my account. I seem to recall doing it on every other MMO I have played.
To the whiners comparing this to SOE and the NGE, I can only presume you didn't actually experience it first hand. If you did, you'd know it's not even in the same galaxy (er no pun intended).
Originally by: Christine Cormorante CCP obviously underestimated the fallout from this:
http://www.massively.com/2008/10/13/ccp-games-kills-ghost-training-on-inactive-eve-accounts/ http://vnboards.ign.com/eve_general_board/b22281/108978443/p1/ http://www.tentonhammer.com/node/46672 http://lagorama.com/eve-online-ghost-training-whisperer-getting-hoarse http://eve.allakhazam.com/sdetail.html?story=15446 http://eve.stratics.com/#29267 http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm?loadnews=11942%2FGhost%2DTraining%2Dto%2Dbe%2DDisabled&bhcp=1
As someone else proclaimed a few pages back:
This appears to be the beginning of the end. It will be for me if too many of my friends decide not to stick around.
lol what? What fallout? You mean other websites announcing the decision? I do believe one of them described ghost trainers as "free loaders".
You apparently missed the resultant discussion threads spawned on those sites. And please, tell me what other mmos you've played that prohibit you from advancing all of the characters on your account in a meaningful timeframe? Shit, even back in the day before the changes to xp in EverQuest, you could have a full stable of level 60 characters inside of a year. Nowadays, you can have a full account of level 80's in 6 months
The biggest point you're missing, is that if you play ANY other toon on your single account, your main character either stops progressing while you spend months or more advancing your alt, or you have to look at 2 empty character slots that are absolutely useless to you. Character slots that you subsequently HAVE TO PAY FOR! Dumb@ss. |
Leica Stroganow
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 10:24:00 -
[3296]
Originally by: Abrazzar Yay for over 100 pages!
Now if you remove all alt account alt character posts and one man army spam you probably drop down to 20 pages, lol. Considering this affects the people with a dozen accounts the most the artificial inflation of posts by armies of alts is very likely.
Good thing CCP can see what's an alt and what's not, so they have a better sense of dimension than this thread implies.
Yay for hot air!
ZERG CCP !
Damn you deserve future suprises |
Abrazzar
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 10:25:00 -
[3297]
Originally by: yarrmarr
Originally by: Abrazzar Yay for over 100 pages!
Now if you remove all alt account alt character posts and one man army spam you probably drop down to 20 pages, lol. Considering this affects the people with a dozen accounts the most the artificial inflation of posts by armies of alts is very likely.
Good thing CCP can see what's an alt and what's not, so they have a better sense of dimension than this thread implies.
Yay for hot air!
ZERG CCP !
I hope that also removes the CCP / dev alts trying to do damage control
Right, then we're down to 5 pages.
Hey CCP, you're two weeks late with your paychek!
|
Loc Maythan
Gallente AlfaCorp
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 10:27:00 -
[3298]
Originally by: Aodha Khan Unlike some, I actually pay to play. I support no Ghost training!
Those that are whining. Ask yourself this, does any other MMORPG train your char while the account is disabled?
Most people aren't complaining about the removal of the feature per se - I am indifferent as to whether it's there or not. If I leave the game, it is because I don't want to play, not because I want to get some free training time.
Most people are complaining about the way it has been done. To summarise the points - not going to list in detail all the arguments as they have been done to death in 2000+ posts:
1) Power of two - encouraging people to create additional accounts 2) GTCs - not sure about this one, as I don't use them 3) Short notice - not sure about everyone else, but the first I knew of it was a couple of days ago 4) "unintended" - then why has it been used as a marketing feature of the game for years? 5) "DB strain" - Hmmmmm. Offline/inactive skill training should take nothing more than a table holding the player id, the skill id, and when the skill will complete. When a player logs on, a check on this table to see if the skill completion date has passed should be all that's required. There should be no offline processing going on - a static table filled in once when the user changes skill, and once when the user logs back on. Online training is a different matter - something will need to check the table periodically, but this process should not be checking offline/inactive accounts. 6) "fairness" - it is an option that is (was) available to everyone - how is it unfair? Arguably, any unfairness is in the fact that there will no doubt be people who suspended their accounts for a variety of reasons, safe in the knowledge that their skill training would continue - as the player guide stated - only to find that when they return, their training has stopped. 7) Stealth change to player guide to remove years old reference to this as a feature - NOT a bug or an "unintended feature"
TBH, if they just came right out and said "We know we said you could use this feature, but now lots of people are using it to train characters without us getting a penny, and we want to be paid for that.", and gave people a little time to prepare for the change, this thread would probably be a fraction of the size.
By all means get rid of ghost-training - I won't miss it - but do it properly and honestly.
Loc. |
Freezehunter
Gallente O.W.N. Corp OWN Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 10:27:00 -
[3299]
Edited by: Freezehunter on 15/10/2008 10:29:08
Originally by: Flinchey Edited by: Flinchey on 15/10/2008 10:17:08
Originally by: Freezehunter Edited by: Freezehunter on 15/10/2008 10:06:35
Originally by: Xhanti
Originally by: Aodha Khan Unlike some, I actually pay to play. I support no Ghost training!
Those that are whining. Ask yourself this, does any other MMORPG train your char while the account is disabled?
How long does it take to gather full set of T8 (or what ever is the highes level if itemization they have) in WOW? 6 months? 1 year? More?"
Then ask yourself does any other MMORPG have skills that take 30 or more days to get ONE lvl in?
Aodha Khan does have a valid point there, Xhanti...
Xhanti does have a valid point there, Freezehunter...
"How long does it take to gather full set of T8 (or what ever is the highes level if itemization they have) in WOW? 6 months? 1 year? More?"
Then ask yourself does any other MMORPG have skills that take 30 or more days to get ONE lvl in?
"One level of Carriers takes less than a day. If you meant the last level, then you should've asked "Does any other MMORPG have skills that take 30 or more days to get FULLY TRAINED in 1 area?"
This... |
Lord Melon
KOVEN Industries
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 10:27:00 -
[3300]
Has anyone from CCP posted anything in reply to the valid points and concerns raised in the 3,000+ posts in this thread?
Cos I cant seem to find anything at all :( It's almost as if CCP are just ignoring their customers altogether |
|
Seth Ruin
Minmatar Ominous Corp Ethereal Dawn
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 10:30:00 -
[3301]
Originally by: Lerand Gaunt
Originally by: Xhanti
Originally by: Aodha Khan Unlike some, I actually pay to play. I support no Ghost training!
Those that are whining. Ask yourself this, does any other MMORPG train your char while the account is disabled?
Then ask yourself does any other MMORPG have skills that take 30 or more days to get ONE lvl in?
One level of Carriers takes less than a day. If you meant the last level, then you should've asked "Does any other MMORPG have skills that take 30 or more days to get FULLY TRAINED in 1 area?"
How long does it take to gather full set of T8 (or what ever is the highes level if itemization they have) in WOW? 6 months? 1 year? More?
Sure "Carriers I" itself takes all of nothing to train, but what about the pre-requisites? The thing is, getting skills to 5 isn't just a luxury. It's a requirement to get to certain ships or items |
Jasper hutz
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 10:31:00 -
[3302]
-2 account |
Azuraito
Caldari Capital Produce Free Trade Zone.
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 10:32:00 -
[3303]
Originally by: Leica Stroganow http://lagorama.com/eve-online-ghost-training-whisperer-getting-hoarse
GOTCHA
(Go to the middle of this site)Thy Azuraito
And?
|
Xhanti
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 10:32:00 -
[3304]
Edited by: Xhanti on 15/10/2008 10:38:07 Edited by: Xhanti on 15/10/2008 10:34:27
Originally by: Seth Ruin
Originally by: Lerand Gaunt
Originally by: Xhanti
Originally by: Aodha Khan Unlike some, I actually pay to play. I support no Ghost training!
Those that are whining. Ask yourself this, does any other MMORPG train your char while the account is disabled?
Then ask yourself does any other MMORPG have skills that take 30 or more days to get ONE lvl in?
One level of Carriers takes less than a day. If you meant the last level, then you should've asked "Does any other MMORPG have skills that take 30 or more days to get FULLY TRAINED in 1 area?"
How long does it take to gather full set of T8 (or what ever is the highes level if itemization they have) in WOW? 6 months? 1 year? More?
Seriously u very well know what i meant by that |
Cosy Ceaon
Gallente Aliastra
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 10:33:00 -
[3305]
n00bs now will be happy to pay 50 days to get a level up in a skill yeeeeee |
Faekurias
Black Legion Command
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 10:34:00 -
[3306]
Originally by: Freezehunter Edited by: Freezehunter on 15/10/2008 10:06:35
Originally by: Xhanti
Originally by: Aodha Khan Unlike some, I actually pay to play. I support no Ghost training!
Those that are whining. Ask yourself this, does any other MMORPG train your char while the account is disabled?
Then ask yourself does any other MMORPG have skills that take 30 or more days to get ONE lvl in?
Xhanti does have a valid point there, Aodha Khan...
Fixed.
|
Marus Safeld
Caldari Trojans Souls of Vengeance
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 10:34:00 -
[3307]
Personally, I have ghosttrained only once when I had no internet connection for 8 weeks.
I don't really care about ghosttraining being removed. I care about the way how it is done!
1. CCP kills 30 day GTC's. I realize now, that this was the 1st shot at ghosttraining. 2. Power of 2 promotion to get as many upfront payments as possible, 3. 48h notice + the "it was a bug" story. 4. Blog mysteriously dissappearing. 5. News item burried under fictional news. 6. Threads locked, threads hidden. 7. Official response in a HIDDEN thread after almost 3000 posts. 8. Moderators run amok.
What you should have done is:
Dear players,
as you probably know the world is going throu a global economic crisis. Island has been struck very hard by this and is at the verge of bancrupt. This doesn't go along with the strong expansion of business we have done during the last 2 years and we're running a little short of money. Because of that we are forced to... ... we will of course look into reenabling this feature once the global economy has stabilized and the financial integrity of CCP can be guaranteed again.
Instead you are trying to mind**** us and we don't take that lightly!
Sadly I have just resubbed 2 accounts for 2 months each last week. A third one will expire this week. I had all 3 of them permanently subbed for 2 years except for the 8 week period mentioned. I am not sure if I want to stay with a company that treats it's customers like CCP is. And since I started my finaly year at the University I'll probably be gone for good in 8 weeks.
Well done CCP. |
Lord Fitz
Project Amargosa
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 10:36:00 -
[3308]
Originally by: Abrazzar Yay for over 100 pages!
Now if you remove all alt account alt character posts and one man army spam you probably drop down to 20 pages, lol. Considering this affects the people with a dozen accounts the most the artificial inflation of posts by armies of alts is very likely.
Good thing CCP can see what's an alt and what's not, so they have a better sense of dimension than this thread implies.
Actually the people effected who are 'ghost training' can't actually post so.... If you add all of those in.....
Not to mention there are heaps of people in here with dozens of chars that are only posting with one. If at all (with such a swift introduction, a lot of people probably have no idea yet, as they may not be online until the first weekend after the announcement.
The nano nerf got 147 pages in three months. In a day and a half the official threads about this have had far more than that.
The thing is that it isn't the people that are threatening to quit (or actually quitting) that will cause CCP the most harm long term. It's all the people who unsubscribe because they don't WANT to play, not because they don't have to. And who simply will not resubscribe now, as the incentive of having finished that skill you didn't have when you left the game isn't there any more.
I know dozens of people who have come back to the game after quitting 'for good' because they wanted to see what this new skill was. I doubt any of them would have returned if their chars were not progressed at all.
The reasons for the changes given are all blatantly obvious lies, and the only reason anyone can actually see that makes sense, ie. 'more money' is going to backfire horribly. People are already paying as much for the game as they wish to, be that for another char or whatever. If they have to pay more, they're simply going to reorganise around it. If you actually wanted to pay for an account to be active, you certainly wouldn't be one of the people ghost training anyway.
|
Counter Spy
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 10:42:00 -
[3309]
Hey CCP smart guys. You all why dont want money ?
It is not brought to an end if your business advisers would have been so clever the opportunity of ghost training, but you introduce it, that 3.99$ can be bought let him be allowed to be than an option and plus money was collected in from the active players in this manner.
|
Counter Spy
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 10:46:00 -
[3310]
Originally by: Marus Safeld Personally, I have ghosttrained only once when I had no internet connection for 8 weeks.
I don't really care about ghosttraining being removed. I care about the way how it is done!
1. CCP kills 30 day GTC's. I realize now, that this was the 1st shot at ghosttraining. 2. Power of 2 promotion to get as many upfront payments as possible, 3. 48h notice + the "it was a bug" story. 4. Blog mysteriously dissappearing. 5. News item burried under fictional news. 6. Threads locked, threads hidden. 7. Official response in a HIDDEN thread after almost 3000 posts. 8. Moderators run amok.
What you should have done is:
Dear players,
as you probably know the world is going throu a global economic crisis. Island has been struck very hard by this and is at the verge of bancrupt. This doesn't go along with the strong expansion of business we have done during the last 2 years and we're running a little short of money. Because of that we are forced to... ... we will of course look into reenabling this feature once the global economy has stabilized and the financial integrity of CCP can be guaranteed again.
Instead you are trying to mind**** us and we don't take that lightly!
Sadly I have just resubbed 2 accounts for 2 months each last week. A third one will expire this week. I had all 3 of them permanently subbed for 2 years except for the 8 week period mentioned. I am not sure if I want to stay with a company that treats it's customers like CCP is. And since I started my finaly year at the University I'll probably be gone for good in 8 weeks.
Well done CCP.
But they not in crisis. If they will say it, they will lie again-
[ 2008.10.12 17:34:26 ] CCP Dr.EyjoG > To those people the CSM should say that CCP is not affected by this crisis [ 2008.10.12 17:34:44 ] CCP Dr.EyjoG > due to our income being US dollars and Euro [ 2008.10.12 17:34:59 ] CCP Dr.EyjoG > so we are actually one of the companies that is doing very well in iceland these days |
|
Azuraito
Caldari Capital Produce Free Trade Zone.
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 10:47:00 -
[3311]
Originally by: Lord Fitz
Originally by: Abrazzar Yay for over 100 pages!
Now if you remove all alt account alt character posts and one man army spam you probably drop down to 20 pages, lol. Considering this affects the people with a dozen accounts the most the artificial inflation of posts by armies of alts is very likely.
Good thing CCP can see what's an alt and what's not, so they have a better sense of dimension than this thread implies.
Actually the people effected who are 'ghost training' can't actually post so.... If you add all of those in.....
Not to mention there are heaps of people in here with dozens of chars that are only posting with one. If at all (with such a swift introduction, a lot of people probably have no idea yet, as they may not be online until the first weekend after the announcement.
The nano nerf got 147 pages in three months. In a day and a half the official threads about this have had far more than that.
The thing is that it isn't the people that are threatening to quit (or actually quitting) that will cause CCP the most harm long term. It's all the people who unsubscribe because they don't WANT to play, not because they don't have to. And who simply will not resubscribe now, as the incentive of having finished that skill you didn't have when you left the game isn't there any more.
I know dozens of people who have come back to the game after quitting 'for good' because they wanted to see what this new skill was. I doubt any of them would have returned if their chars were not progressed at all.
The reasons for the changes given are all blatantly obvious lies, and the only reason anyone can actually see that makes sense, ie. 'more money' is going to backfire horribly. People are already paying as much for the game as they wish to, be that for another char or whatever. If they have to pay more, they're simply going to reorganise around it. If you actually wanted to pay for an account to be active, you certainly wouldn't be one of the people ghost training anyway.
I make at least 1 bill every 2 months, this in turn provides me with 2 x 60 day GTC to cover my main account which is nearly always active and my trader alt which is nearly always inactive.
This way, i can run 2 accounts, without actually having to pay a subscription, All this moaning is pointless.
Anyone selling a capital character?
|
clone 1
Laughing Leprechauns Corporation
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 10:49:00 -
[3312]
Originally by: CCP t0rfifrans The bug that became a feature
On Monday, we released news that we are disabling äGhost Trainingô, the ability to train characters on inactive accounts. This resulted in strong reactions from the community as many people were routinely making use of it. We explained the matter in more detail and pointed out that this had been a bug in the original game code. Those of us who were involved in the process of making the decision and communicating it to the community did not realize this bug had been so accepted as a feature that it was listed as such in our own documentation on our own website.
How can we not know whatæs in our own documentation? Well, to be frank, it was a case of insufficient communication on our part between various teams û a regrettable mistake and hard lesson to learn at the expense of the trust youæve placed in us. Thereæs no way to spin it and we wonæt add insult to injury by trying to do so. It was a mistake on our part and for that we sincerely and humbly apologize.
Many would hope that in light of this we will decide not to cancel ghost training and keep it active as an option but weære cannot to do that. EVE is already one-of-a-kind in allowing players to progress their characters through offline skill training. We stand by our policy that if you want your character to progress in EVE, you should pay the subscription fee. The fact that so many people have been able to do so for several years was our own oversight. We know this change, and our misstep in telling you about it, has created some discontent and we hope that over time we can prove our committment to make EVE better than ever for you will be evident as you enjoy the fruits of our labor.
Torfi
The Case that became one too many
On Monday, CCP messed up communication to the community, fumbled a second explanation and then Tuesday hid the thread.
How can you not know your own documentation, well to be frank, Your community leader, Wrangler has on may times corrected people on the forum about the fact that characters continue to train when account goes inactive. Infact he even corrected a DEV for allowing it to get into patchnotes when it was changed on the china server. You cannot use the word 'oversight', since it was in plain sight and documented. It was in patch notes and documented. It was a FEATURE. Just like jet-can mining.
Many would hope that CCP would come forward and be truthful about this, but insead the thread gets buried.
I must also reiterate, that I am not really annoyed that this feature is removed, but the way it was handled is just beyond belief. And they way you try to cover up the reasons for your decision over and over is just , I don't know, beyond comprehension. I dont understand how mistakes in communication can occur over and over like this.
|
Leeluvv
Federation of Freedom Fighters Executive Outcomes
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 10:49:00 -
[3313]
Not sure anyone of importance will read this far, but here is a suggestion that should resolve both problems (abuse of ghost training Vs usefulness of ghost training):
Limit the amount of time that a char can ghost train. This could be a number of days of ghost training after an account is cancelled or it could be a number of weeks a year and calculated cumulatively.
Both have pros and cons, but it should resolve some of the abuse, yet still allow those that use the mechanism to benefit from a limited cost saving on accounts that are temporarily 'shelved'.
Lee |
myrddhyn
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 10:49:00 -
[3314]
tsk tsk , bad crowd control, trying to hide this thread. The 48 hours notice was bad but hiding this thread shows really that you have to send everyone back to PR-school.
I never seen devs working so hard; locking threads left and right. It's good to see you finally do some work. Only problem is you invest it bad.
|
Marus Safeld
Caldari Trojans Souls of Vengeance
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 10:50:00 -
[3315]
Originally by: Counter Spy
But they not in crisis. If they will say it, they will lie again-
[ 2008.10.12 17:34:26 ] CCP Dr.EyjoG > To those people the CSM should say that CCP is not affected by this crisis [ 2008.10.12 17:34:44 ] CCP Dr.EyjoG > due to our income being US dollars and Euro [ 2008.10.12 17:34:59 ] CCP Dr.EyjoG > so we are actually one of the companies that is doing very well in iceland these days
The profit doesn't help them if they can't get their money.
As far as I know the gouvernment of Iceland has taken control of its banks and froozen their assets. |
Gabriel Virtus
Cassandra's Light Caeruleum Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 10:54:00 -
[3316]
I cannot believe the level of effort these people are going through to hide this topic, lock threads, and generally not respond in any way to this tidal wave of customer complaints. If only CCP put some of this effort to fixing ACTUAL bugs in the game.
I bet some devs are putting in overtime to try and hide this topic completely from the forums.
-GV |
Arrs Grazznic
Poena Executive Solutions
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 10:55:00 -
[3317]
Originally by: Cosy Ceaon n00bs now will be happy to pay 50 days to get a level up in a skill yeeeeee
I'm against the change, but what kind of crap are you saying? People pay for 50 days to play for 50 days. Just because you are training a skill doesn't mean you can't play the freaking game! OK, so you are wanting to train BS to 5 so you can get in a capital. just continue to fly your BS for those 30 days while the training finishes, ffs.
Cheers, Arrs
|
Demonos Silentium
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 10:56:00 -
[3318]
heres my 2 cents in to the topic. sure it ****es me off that features that are sellingpoints are turned into "bugs" to get more income for the company. BUT then again. corporations do need to get profit, i mean. what kinda corporations do stay alive and doesnt make profit? especially when you need some money to invest on research of the new materials what corporation wants to add to the game. and possibly to a second game etc etc. list goes on. but in my opinion this whole thing came "too quick behind a corner". perhaps a months warning time and e-mails for those inactive accounts telling about the situation would have been in order. to keep customers aware about such situations. (inactive accounts cannot log in to see the news section)
|
imo vestuff
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 10:57:00 -
[3319]
Dear friend,
while i disagree with you about this as a reason to quit, i wish you everything good in whatever game your going to :)
Eve Online has been a blast with that many players, and im quite sure that others will come. However its still sad to see so many people go.
However since your not going to come back you wont need your stuff anymore, so i came up with an idea.
Why dont you contract all you own to me before you cancel your account? It wont hurt you to do so.
Im quite certain that you wonder what i would do with all that stuff.. so lets play with an open hand: im going to invest everything traded to me by leaving players (dont send your stuff if your not leaving!) and will build or buy a titan class vessel from it next year. This titan will be named "ghost trainer" as a memorial to all those who we lost to this change.
anyways, farewell, and see you in some other game :)
imo vestuff |
MustakaTank
Lost Star Technologies Ethereal Dawn
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 10:58:00 -
[3320]
This emorage is bloody humorous.
"I cant get something for free....Wwwwwhhhhaaaaaaaaaaa"
I also like the people who are canceling accounts that they are not actually paying for on only part of the time. I am thinking that most of the people spilling emo tears are people who are skilling accounts to sell them on.
This thread is so full of win :) |
|
Counter Spy
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 10:59:00 -
[3321]
Originally by: Marus Safeld
Originally by: Counter Spy
But they not in crisis. If they will say it, they will lie again-
[ 2008.10.12 17:34:26 ] CCP Dr.EyjoG > To those people the CSM should say that CCP is not affected by this crisis [ 2008.10.12 17:34:44 ] CCP Dr.EyjoG > due to our income being US dollars and Euro [ 2008.10.12 17:34:59 ] CCP Dr.EyjoG > so we are actually one of the companies that is doing very well in iceland these days
The profit doesn't help them if they can't get their money.
As far as I know the gouvernment of Iceland has taken control of its banks and froozen their assets.
Oh you are wrong, the CCP money in offshore account, and not in Island, they say it. |
Seth Ruin
Minmatar Ominous Corp Ethereal Dawn
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 11:00:00 -
[3322]
Well, it's DT... Here's to hoping CCP got some sense and at least postponed this thing. Hell, they didn't even explain if it's going to cancel all currently training inactive accounts or just disable it for future skills. |
KingBobs Dawn
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 11:01:00 -
[3323]
community control production regime is currently controling the community and show the community his respect maybe we all should go to island to the fan fest with a big fat loud buuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuh on our lips |
Braaage
Ministry of Craft
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 11:01:00 -
[3324]
Quote: I must also reiterate, that I am not really annoyed that this feature is removed, but the way it was handled is just beyond belief. And they way you try to cover up the reasons for your decision over and over is just , I don't know, beyond comprehension. I dont understand how mistakes in communication can occur over and over like this.
This is spot on..... you'd think CCP would learn from their past mistakes.
|
Marus Safeld
Caldari Trojans Souls of Vengeance
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 11:02:00 -
[3325]
Originally by: Counter Spy
Oh you are wrong, the CCP money in offshore account, and not in Island, they say it.
And we shall believe! |
Jacevetter
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 11:02:00 -
[3326]
Personally I do not ghost train, but I think this appears to be a corporate move on CCP's part to create more loss of accounts. It was ONE reason I bought into EVE. I did have plans to ghost train when I move from ISP to another country where I will need to find another ISP to continue on EVE. This looks cheeszy on CCP to worry about running skills. I've almost given up EVE just because the skills can be a pain, and hard to plan out from day to day. This is a crime on CCP to call it a BUG, it was one way to at least keep your character skills running until you could afford to come back. Perhaps the world economy has something to do with the drop in active accounts. My own real problem is skills, and keeping the POS fueled has become a burden in my personal life and this is causing me to loose interest at times. Warning, I'm already on another role game that is cheaper and easier for skills, YOU at CCP are pushing us OUT. Be careful or you'll loose all of us ! |
KingBobs Dawn
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 11:02:00 -
[3327]
may we should rename game time cards to skill time cards |
Limbi
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 11:03:00 -
[3328]
I didn't play even in the last 1-2 months. So one account was payed by GTC and the other payed by CC. I kept paying on second account considering that I would be back paying soon.
But no, this the second lying move you done to your customers, first the 30 days GTCs and now this ghost training crap, which I don't use .. but the way you are treating us is outrageous. Alienating from your customers is stupid, really stupid CCP.
So I canceled my last account also... will be back when you fix lag and stop beeing *******s. |
Johncrab
Minmatar Typo Corp
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 11:03:00 -
[3329]
Trying to make a constructive post here.
1st off, I have to say that I never ghost trained and my char was born early 2005. Had a second account for about 1 year, that I ghost trained once. Can't keep the account so it's closed. Probably with ghost training, I would be able to activate it now and then when cash flow is better. Now, I'm not even considering the option to activate the 2nd account ever again.
What CCP did wrong: - Ending 30 days GTC's and thus boosting the prices of 60 days GTC's by over 100%. And when CCP mentions game ballance and fairness... well there's nothing more unfair than people buying isk with rl money. And that's what people that sell GTC's for isk do.
- Launching a new power of 2. Inviting people to create more acccounts that, the majority of them, would be ghost trained for sure. People always consider that option on alt acccounts for many and valid reasons (in most cases).
- Announcing the end of ghost traning 2/3 days before implementing it. It's just insane to drop a bomb like that on such short notice. And one can't help but feel that it was done with a obscure objective. Give people little time to react and complain?... Other ideas come to mind but only CCP can answer this in the end.
- The original excuse for ending ghost traning. Game ballance, game fairness. Well, as far as I can tell, thre wasn't a single thread in 5 years complaining about how unfair ghost training is. Selling GTC's for isk... maybe. Farmers... for sure. Ghost training unfair... never saw it.
- Out comes a blog. Better late than ever, some would say. In this case, well it didn't improve the scenario much. They now call it a bug, unintended feature and a stress to the db. When in 5 years this was never mentioned, none of it. Ghost training was even part of the player guide.
- Account management page goes down for 1 full day (as far as I'm aware), preventing people from canceling their alt accounts. From what I could tell, many, many people wanted to do just that. Coincidence? Maybe. Did it look bad? Oh boy, it looked damn ugly.
- Sencond thread on the subject (1st was locked with 49 pages when the blog came out) becomes invisible when it reaches 70 pages. Another coincidence? Probably. Did it look bad? Sure did. CCP did make it better by creating a new thread linking to that one, but it doesn't erase another strange coincidence.
In conclusion: A serie of bad moves, one after the other. People being lyed to, feeling cheated and, above all, removing a game feature that (of course it will always be abused by some) represented a huge + factor for the vast majority of the player base.
People are in rage and they should be. I never ghost trained in close to 4 years and I'm in rage. 90% of my rage comes from the way CCP behaved and 10% comes from the fact that, something I'm sure I'll miss sooner or later, as been taken away from me. |
Dian Cecht
Omnicorp Enterprises
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 11:04:00 -
[3330]
"Connection to subscribers lost"
|
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Xhanti
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 11:04:00 -
[3331]
Originally by: Marus Safeld
Originally by: Counter Spy
Oh you are wrong, the CCP money in offshore account, and not in Island, they say it.
And we shall believe!
I do hope any company with that income would not invest in a islandic bank with failing currency and low interest banks. If so fire all of CCP ffs |
Simon LBowerbank
Amarr Universal Assembler
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 11:04:00 -
[3332]
I WANT TO GO TO THE ISLAND!!!! |
Clansworth
Burning Sky Labs
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 11:05:00 -
[3333]
Originally by: Jacevetter Warning, I'm already on another role game that is cheaper and easier for skills, YOU at CCP are pushing us OUT. Be careful or you'll loose all of us !
Even after the change, I still feel that EVE has the best skill system of any MMO out there, simply because you don't have to Grind for XP. You can spend your playing time actually PLAYING the game, and not worry about focusing on bettering your character. This change is not affecting that at all. |
Xhanti
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 11:07:00 -
[3334]
Originally by: Clansworth
Originally by: Jacevetter Warning, I'm already on another role game that is cheaper and easier for skills, YOU at CCP are pushing us OUT. Be careful or you'll loose all of us !
Even after the change, I still feel that EVE has the best skill system of any MMO out there, simply because you don't have to Grind for XP. You can spend your playing time actually PLAYING the game, and not worry about focusing on bettering your character. This change is not affecting that at all.
"bettering" your character IS the game, else go to a chat room and play D&D. |
Cazzah
Caldari Eve University Ivy League
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 11:07:00 -
[3335]
Well its downtime folks, and they havent shifted on the issue. Its time to say goodbye to a lot of veterans. Good luck and fly safe vets o7
Lets maintain the anger vigil though. They might change their minds. Who knows? |
Bukkaboo
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 11:08:00 -
[3336]
Dunno if this has been said yet.. but can't imagine the look on face of those who are currenly on a break from eve and planning to return later. In case they have not visited the eve website..just sad, ccp could've atleast informed via mail, like they advertised the power of 2... |
Gabriel Virtus
Cassandra's Light Caeruleum Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 11:09:00 -
[3337]
Originally by: CCP t0rfifrans The bug that became a feature
On Monday, we released news that we are disabling äGhost Trainingô, the ability to train characters on inactive accounts. This resulted in strong reactions from the community as many people were routinely making use of it. We explained the matter in more detail and pointed out that this had been a bug in the original game code. Those of us who were involved in the process of making the decision and communicating it to the community did not realize this bug had been so accepted as a feature that it was listed as such in our own documentation on our own website.
How can we not know whatæs in our own documentation? Well, to be frank, it was a case of insufficient communication on our part between various teams û a regrettable mistake and hard lesson to learn at the expense of the trust youæve placed in us. Thereæs no way to spin it and we wonæt add insult to injury by trying to do so. It was a mistake on our part and for that we sincerely and humbly apologize.
Many would hope that in light of this we will decide not to cancel ghost training and keep it active as an option but weære cannot to do that. EVE is already one-of-a-kind in allowing players to progress their characters through offline skill training. We stand by our policy that if you want your character to progress in EVE, you should pay the subscription fee. The fact that so many people have been able to do so for several years was our own oversight. We know this change, and our misstep in telling you about it, has created some discontent and we hope that over time we can prove our committment to make EVE better than ever for you will be evident as you enjoy the fruits of our labor.
Torfi
It is more like a feature that became a bug. It seems to be a little much to claim that a bug, which is used as a selling point in various places across the player guide and communicated to players for POWER OF TWO promotions. "Insufficient Communication" is the biggest crock of bullshit excuse that anyone comes up with. When the Main DEV on the information portal is actively communicating this to players, there is no problem with communication, there is a major policy change that you notify your customers about 2 days before implementing. You are trying to mask the real reasons and trying to sweep this all under a rug.
I understand that corporations need to make a profit to keep running, but this will not increase revenue. This will hurt revenue. Corporations that continue to treat their customer base like utter trash and then try to bullshit them as if they were a bunch of 5 year olds ends up bankrupt.
There was no insufficient communication. There was false advertising, lying, and utter mistreatment of your customers... period. -GV |
Odetta Harpy
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 11:10:00 -
[3338]
I am hating ccp right now, just as im about to train lv 5 BS they do a big dump on me. |
Marus Safeld
Caldari Trojans Souls of Vengeance
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 11:10:00 -
[3339]
Originally by: Cazzah Lets maintain the anger vigil though. They might change their minds. Who knows?
Won't matter a bit to me. In my eyes they have lost every bit of credibility they had left.
I fail to understand how a company this big can have such an incompentent CR management. |
Odetta Harpy
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 11:11:00 -
[3340]
PS: look at all the posts you idiots. |
|
ignobil
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 11:12:00 -
[3341]
Originally by: Johncrab
- Announcing the end of ghost traning 2/3 days before implementing it. It's just insane to drop a bomb like that on such short notice. And one can't help but feel that it was done with a obscure objective. Give people little time to react and complain?... Other ideas come to mind but only CCP can answer this in the end.
People are in rage and they should be. I never ghost trained in close to 4 years and I'm in rage. 90% of my rage comes from the way CCP behaved and 10% comes from the fact that, something I'm sure I'll miss sooner or later, as been taken away from me.
/signed (with the modification that i¦ve always used ghost training, it was the best thing of the game) |
Leica Stroganow
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 11:12:00 -
[3342]
Originally by: Azuraito
Originally by: Leica Stroganow http://lagorama.com/eve-online-ghost-training-whisperer-getting-hoarse
GOTCHA
(Go to the middle of this site)Thy Azuraito
And?
Look at the original page in eve |
Verkaeufer
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 11:13:00 -
[3343]
I think that's outrageous now where I will soon be moved and can not be online, and I thought yes does not always yes's learn more, it creates from the CCP?
Can the coming months from private founded no longer active and inactive should now pay more? Without that I am here ... so dear CCP but thus loses her another loyal customer since I moved now and not online longer can, I will probably not equal more.
mfg
---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Transladet from german to english
Ich finde das emp÷rend jetzt wo ich demnSchst nbersiedle und nicht online sein kann, und ich mir dachte macht ja nichtÆs lerne ja eh weiter, schafft ihr ccp das ab?
Kann die kommenden Monate aus privaten grnnden nicht mehr aktive sein und soll nun inaktive weiter zahlen? Ohne das ich da binà so liebe ccp aber somit verliert ihr einen weitern treuen Kunden, da ich nun nbersiedle und lSnger nicht online kommen kann, werde ich wohl gleich gar nicht mehr kommen.
mfg
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WaiKin Beldar
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 11:15:00 -
[3344]
Edited by: WaiKin Beldar on 15/10/2008 11:16:18 If I were CCP, how could I clean all this bullshit after reading the whole thread:
1) Immediate firing of the marketing division head. 2) Immediate public answer to the users community about all the inconsistencies found on the publication of the original thread, its disappearing and subsequent inclusion in an already locked thread. 3) Honest and immediate explanation for making disappear an original game feature like this. 4) Do not allow your financial division,in the future, just in the middle of a world economical crisis, to rule entirely your ship. 5) Keep a close listening, not merely hearing, to the user community and use proactively their feedback to improve constantly this game.This means DIALOG, not unilateral decisions. 6) Don't forget, never, that my company incomes and survival depend in a direct way of customer satisfaction.
THEN, you will keep your baby for a long time as the crown's jewel among the rest of MMOPRGs you can find out there and your subscribers won't mind to pay an additional fee when the time forces you to do it.
|
Neliel Oderschvank
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 11:17:00 -
[3345]
Best thing about all of these is that a CCP Official dont even dare to post on this thread... theyre afraid they might say the wrong words |
NupetietVer
Neuro Cartographic Services
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 11:20:00 -
[3346]
Originally by: WaiKin Beldar
5) Keep a close listening, not merely hearing, to the user community and use proactively their feedback to improve constantly this game.This means DIALOG, not unilateral decisions. 6) Don't forget, never, that my company incomes and survival depend in a direct way of customer satisfaction.
Indeed, since CCP is an up and growing company, they should listen to the players since its the players that dictate the success. You just FUBAR'd that up.
And the best business plan is to keep the customers happy, and you failed at that CCP, in a horrendous way.
I will not be re-subbing this December, and I have already pledged my ships/items to the Minmatar United Way. |
WeightedCompanionCube
Aperture Science Enrichment Center
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 11:20:00 -
[3347]
Originally by: WaiKin Beldar
4) Do not allow your financial division,in the future, just in the middle of a world economical crisis, to rule entirely your ship.
That is exactly why there is a crisis in the first place, large banks not listening to their financial divisions and thinking only on how to please their customers most. |
WaiKin Beldar
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 11:25:00 -
[3348]
Originally by: WeightedCompanionCube
Originally by: WaiKin Beldar
4) Do not allow your financial division,in the future, just in the middle of a world economical crisis, to rule entirely your ship.
That is exactly why there is a crisis in the first place, large banks not listening to their financial divisions and thinking only on how to please their customers most.
I think THAT is not exactly the situation here. |
Azuraito
Caldari Capital Produce Free Trade Zone.
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 11:25:00 -
[3349]
Originally by: Leica Stroganow
Originally by: Azuraito
Originally by: Leica Stroganow http://lagorama.com/eve-online-ghost-training-whisperer-getting-hoarse
GOTCHA
(Go to the middle of this site)Thy Azuraito
And?
Look at the original page in eve
Sry didnt get my weed'a'bix this morning! I still dont get it?
|
Gara Al'Malik
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 11:26:00 -
[3350]
Originally by: NupetietVer
Indeed, since CCP is an up and growing company, they should listen to the players since its the players that dictate the success. You just FUBAR'd that up.
And the best business plan is to keep the customers happy, and you failed at that CCP, in a horrendous way.
To be honest, some of us are happy to see the broken ghost training disabled. It was a loophole and EVE is better without it. The only mistake CCP did was wording the announcement. |
|
TwoShoes
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 11:26:00 -
[3351]
The real reason ?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/7667920.stm
;-) |
Skogen Gump
Jericho Fraction
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 11:26:00 -
[3352]
Edited by: Skogen Gump on 15/10/2008 11:27:14
Originally by: Clansworth
"bettering" your character IS the game, else go to a chat room and play D&D.
I'm not sure what game you're playing, but it doesn't sound like fun to me.
Flying around in a space ship and interacting with other players *IS* this game, sitting around expecting your character to get skills, without the small inconvenience of paying for it is most assuredly not!
Now, I'm as dismayed at the lack of Community relationship shown by this change as everyone else, but I have to say, I support the change. That said, considering the outcry, I really believe CCP should reach a compromise.
My suggestion is that they consider allowing ghost training for accounts that are linked to at least one active subscription.
Edit: Fixed quote. |
Loi Shania
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 11:27:00 -
[3353]
Oh no - I can't train whilst I'm not a paying customer!!!
Suck it up folks - it's a good decision that should of been made ages ago.
To those in a fit of emorage, have fun in World of ****ers |
Pastor Blew
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 11:28:00 -
[3354]
Edited by: Pastor Blew on 15/10/2008 11:28:16
Originally by: Loi Shania Oh no - I can't train whilst I'm not a paying customer!!!
Suck it up folks - it's a good decision that should of been made ages ago.
To those in a fit of emorage, have fun in World of ****ers
Re-tard. |
Sonam Gyatso
Republic Military School
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 11:28:00 -
[3355]
If half the people that are raging against this quit, or even better just cancel their capital/bear/industry/whatever alt, eve will be a better place already. You want to run a one man show, pretending to be the big bad guy on your main while you re the worse empire carebear on your alt(s)? Go ahead, but pay for it. It sucks for the summer break cost-free training but what matters is what they do with the money we pay. Cause if that's the way they 're trying to fix lag then they ll really see the power of 0 soon. |
Anidis
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 11:30:00 -
[3356]
Edited by: Anidis on 15/10/2008 11:33:07 hey ccp, i do not use ghosttraining but i now some people using it because they need a few weeks to have the money for reactivating this accounts. and i do nit think it is fair what you are doing, it was ok for a few years and now you want to change it. money owns the world i know. but if got a question. an example: a player activate a skill, which needs to train 3 weeks. his account is activated for the next 2 weeks. he plan to extend his account while the next week. but now and work he is getting injured and sent to hospital for the next month. he planed everything but with this action you punish him too. so why don't you make a compromise and say. okay skills stop training after 4 weeks when the account is inactive? the long skills need more time than 4 weeks and the player have the time to earn enough money in this time (rl or ingame doesn't matter). i think that would be fair otherwise i think you'll lose a few players and have a greater financial damage then you now have.
written with HK 47, don't know how to change it |
Mr Manjuice
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 11:30:00 -
[3357]
I wonder if in a few months time that CCP's gamble of doing this, is not the $$$ maker they hope for, will the feature that is now a bug become a feature again. |
Seth Ruin
Minmatar Ominous Corp Ethereal Dawn
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 11:32:00 -
[3358]
Originally by: Mr Manjuice
I wonder if in a few months time that CCP's gamble of doing this, is not the $$$ maker they hope for, will the feature that is now a bug become a feature again.
And then tout it and advertise it... |
Azuraito
Caldari Capital Produce Free Trade Zone.
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 11:32:00 -
[3359]
Originally by: Sonam Gyatso If half the people that are raging against this quit, or even better just cancel their capital/bear/industry/whatever alt, eve will be a better place already. You want to run a one man show, pretending to be the big bad guy on your main while you re the worse empire carebear on your alt(s)? Go ahead, but pay for it. It sucks for the summer break cost-free training but what matters is what they do with the money we pay. Cause if that's the way they 're trying to fix lag then they ll really see the power of 0 soon.
They are the same peeps that threatened to quit many times before,e.g. dev-misconduct, etc.. etc..
I hope this is the final, final, final straw and they actually quit, be less module lag for us to contend with!
|
Q429
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 11:35:00 -
[3360]
while We're on subject -
Add a training Que Allow the training of multiple characters in one account
|
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Inara Dex
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 11:35:00 -
[3361]
If they disabled the Queues of research jobs on inactive accounts that i would not complain about :) |
Gner Dechast
Flashman Services
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 11:36:00 -
[3362]
Kudos to you, for not sticking to the blatant bullshit excuse "game balance"
It IS about money, and quite frankly I think you ought to have fixed that since day one you realised it.
Thank's for not keeping us as idiots and having the balls to state the real reasons.
(Can't recall who wrote the insulting news item trying to pass "game balance" as a reason... move that person AWAY from public relation contact tasks, please)
|
Joh Lan
Caldari
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 11:37:00 -
[3363]
I play many games other than eve, but still running two accounts for 1.5 years.
Every time I have created the training plans to train shorter and medium skills while it's active and the long ones when inactive. I almost always reactivated the accounts as soon the long one finished.
It also kept me returning like many other somewhat casual players.
This will surely drop one of my accounts right now, and the other prolly sooner then with ghost training left alone.
The only thing I can think of to compensate for this is double queue with scheduling. That way people would possibly pay the extra money it now costs to get constant training going.
You would get your $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ and we would get something in exchange. |
Azuraito
Caldari Capital Produce Free Trade Zone.
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 11:37:00 -
[3364]
Originally by: Anidis an example: a player activate a skill, which needs to train 3 weeks. his account is activated for the next 2 weeks. he plan to extend his account while the next week. but now and work he is getting injured and sent to hospital for the next month. he planed everything but with this action you punish him too.
If i was injured in the hospital, that last thing on my mind would be skill training in eve roflol
Where do they come up with these |
Counter Spy
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 11:37:00 -
[3365]
Edited by: Counter Spy on 15/10/2008 11:37:32
Originally by: Azuraito
Originally by: Sonam Gyatso If half the people that are raging against this quit, or even better just cancel their capital/bear/industry/whatever alt, eve will be a better place already. You want to run a one man show, pretending to be the big bad guy on your main while you re the worse empire carebear on your alt(s)? Go ahead, but pay for it. It sucks for the summer break cost-free training but what matters is what they do with the money we pay. Cause if that's the way they 're trying to fix lag then they ll really see the power of 0 soon.
They are the same peeps that threatened to quit many times before,e.g. dev-misconduct, etc.. etc..
I hope this is the final, final, final straw and they actually quit, be less module lag for us to contend with!
Inactive players make module lag ? You are a morron. |
Marus Safeld
Caldari Trojans Souls of Vengeance
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 11:37:00 -
[3366]
Originally by: Azuraito They are the same peeps that threatened to quit many times before,e.g. dev-misconduct, etc.. etc..
I hope this is the final, final, final straw and they actually quit, be less module lag for us to contend with!
You're really ignorant are you? Or maybe just plain stupid...
Many of those people expressing their anger here have never actually used this bug/feature/exploit. They are infact just ****ed off about the way CCP handled this.
Right so! It wasn't the 1st time but I am sure than many here aren't threatening to quit anymore. They have already done it.
Personally I am in the process of pulling 20bil isk out of the market. You think that won't affect your gameplay?
Just wait till you wake up. |
Jinx Barker
GFB Scientific
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 11:37:00 -
[3367]
I think most of the people at CCP, at this point, know it is a mistake, and is a sign of unmitigated stupidity. Problem is that they are too afraid to tell the bosses that it is a mistake.
Chances are, even the minority of those people who are now gleefully observing this fiasco, and are delighting in "veteran tears" are going to quit at some point in their lives, after a burnout, and because this feature not there, they won't come back.
All other nerfs and "balancing" aside, this thing has been dictated by pure greed, and the direction is not coming from the right place in CCP. The direction is coming from whoever is running out of money for their Audis, and BMWs, and Lamborghini, and Ferrari. The direction is coming from people who want to squeeze EVE as a cash-cow that it is at ANY COST, EVEN IF IT WILL COST CCP THE LOAYL FANS.
Just remember guys, you can probably push people around for so long, before they get really mad and just walk away. If this thread represents even 40% of overall EVE Community's feelings, this game will be pretty lonely, pretty soon. |
DeODokktor
Dark Templars The Fonz Presidium
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 11:39:00 -
[3368]
Originally by: Inara Dex If they disabled the Queues of research jobs on inactive accounts that i would not complain about :)
you sound as silly as CCP... chances are there are few/no queued up research jobs owned by inactive accounts.. I am sure you would love labs to open, but there's no way that people are installing 15d jobs and then dropping the account.. We would love to think that someone is buying 90d codes, installing jobs for 3 months, then taking 15 day breaks!
If you go by what ETC sells for (in ISK) then character churn is also highly doubtful.. Why will people spend say 200$ for gametime and 20$ transfer for a char that will reach the same level of isk that 150$ worth of timecodes will get them.. They wont!
|
Azuraito
Caldari Capital Produce Free Trade Zone.
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 11:40:00 -
[3369]
Originally by: Marus Safeld Personally I am in the process of pulling 20bil isk out of the market. You think that won't affect your gameplay?
Just wait till you wake up.
Nope, not at all!
Have fun |
ClimberDave
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 11:40:00 -
[3370]
When I paid my subscription, I paid for the Eve, I paid for the features of Eve. Now one of the features I have paid for is been removed with 2 days notice. I would therefore like a refund of my last subscription.
I have never ghost trained, however my subscription has lapsed at times, but hey I'm still flying a retriever logging on every 1.5 days or more to set the next skill training, scrapping by on <10mil. I would like to see a possible significant shortening of skill training time or a skill queuing system, preferably the latter. I work 9 to 5, 5 days a week, I have a life outside of Eve and I don't like the fact I have to plan my RL around skill training in order to get value for money from my subscription.
But hey whats the point? I might as well go back to BF2, at least there they don't pretend to give a shit about they're community, they don't say anything at all but I dunno I find that thought nicer than being lied too at the moment. |
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Counter Spy
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 11:41:00 -
[3371]
Originally by: Jinx Barker I think most of the people at CCP, at this point, know it is a mistake, and is a sign of unmitigated stupidity. Problem is that they are too afraid to tell the bosses that it is a mistake.
Chances are, even the minority of those people who are now gleefully observing this fiasco, and are delighting in "veteran tears" are going to quit at some point in their lives, after a burnout, and because this feature not there, they won't come back.
All other nerfs and "balancing" aside, this thing has been dictated by pure greed, and the direction is not coming from the right place in CCP. The direction is coming from whoever is running out of money for their Audis, and BMWs, and Lamborghini, and Ferrari. The direction is coming from people who want to squeeze EVE as a cash-cow that it is at ANY COST, EVEN IF IT WILL COST CCP THE LOAYL FANS.
Just remember guys, you can probably push people around for so long, before they get really mad and just walk away. If this thread represents even 40% of overall EVE Community's feelings, this game will be pretty lonely, pretty soon.
Yes! Agreed. |
WaiKin Beldar
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 11:43:00 -
[3372]
Originally by: Marus Safeld
Originally by: Azuraito They are the same peeps that threatened to quit many times before,e.g. dev-misconduct, etc.. etc..
I hope this is the final, final, final straw and they actually quit, be less module lag for us to contend with!
You're really ignorant are you? Or maybe just plain stupid...
Absolutely the second option. |
Rancid Oswald
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 11:43:00 -
[3373]
Originally by: ClimberDave When I paid my subscription, I paid for the Eve, I paid for the features of Eve. Now one of the features I have paid for is been removed with 2 days notice. I would therefore like a refund of my last subscription.
Ghost training was never a Paid service. You FAIL! |
Azuraito
Caldari Capital Produce Free Trade Zone.
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 11:44:00 -
[3374]
Originally by: Counter Spy Inactive players make module lag ? You are a morron.
You misspelt moron!
Use firefox, it has a localised spell checker for nubs like yourself! |
Hisa Me
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 11:45:00 -
[3375]
Edited by: Hisa Me on 15/10/2008 11:45:14 Hey all you people leaving!
Can I have your stuff please???? :D Luv you long time |
ViolenTUK
Gallente Vindicated Exiles
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 11:45:00 -
[3376]
Originally by: Rancid Oswald
Originally by: ClimberDave When I paid my subscription, I paid for the Eve, I paid for the features of Eve. Now one of the features I have paid for is been removed with 2 days notice. I would therefore like a refund of my last subscription.
Ghost training was never a Paid service. You FAIL!
Yes it was a feature of the game and has been advertised as such for 5 years. |
Levenson
Unknown Corp
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 11:45:00 -
[3377]
It sucks! -2 accounts. Thanks! This is not that game that it was at the beginning. How they could ignoring us?? well Lets append manna,orks, axes and walking... I hate WOW. |
Joh Lan
Caldari
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 11:46:00 -
[3378]
And now this topic is 'not visible' in the main topic list. Technical problems. eh. |
dobi woobie
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 11:46:00 -
[3379]
I m just interestet when this Thread is not hidden anymore. Its gone since Posted - 2008.10.14 17:38:00 - so lets see if it takes a day or a month for them to bring it back
This threat is also that long i expectet atleast someone to speak about the changes of ingame economy this will bring.
I think trit and datacore prices will go op alittle because its more expensive to train alts now. Maybe whe will even see a decrease in cap pilots which would be welcome. it would be good if eve becmoese lesss alt heavy. |
ClimberDave
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 11:47:00 -
[3380]
Originally by: Rancid Oswald
Originally by: ClimberDave When I paid my subscription, I paid for the Eve, I paid for the features of Eve. Now one of the features I have paid for is been removed with 2 days notice. I would therefore like a refund of my last subscription.
Ghost training was never a Paid service. You FAIL!
Could swear I had to pay a months subscription to set the skill training to "On". ******. |
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Xhanti
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 11:47:00 -
[3381]
Originally by: Azuraito
Originally by: Counter Spy Inactive players make module lag ? You are a morron.
You misspelt moron!
Use firefox, it has a localised spell checker for nubs like yourself!
OMG he misspelled something that u fully understood anyway.. what a loser..
maybe english isnt his first language , lets see u type "moron" in swedish and see if u spell it right, do we have the rights to flame u then? |
Skogen Gump
Jericho Fraction
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 11:47:00 -
[3382]
Originally by: Azuraito
If i was injured in the hospital, that last thing on my mind would be skill training in eve roflol
Where do they come up with these
Maybe he could claim on Medical insurance for Skill Training loss O-o
/facepalm |
C4w3
Minmatar Corp 1 Allstars
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 11:47:00 -
[3383]
Originally by: Rancid Oswald
Originally by: ClimberDave When I paid my subscription, I paid for the Eve, I paid for the features of Eve. Now one of the features I have paid for is been removed with 2 days notice. I would therefore like a refund of my last subscription.
Ghost training was never a Paid service. You FAIL!
You sir are clueless...... |
Mel Kory
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 11:47:00 -
[3384]
Well. It was written on eve-online site "Skills continue training even if you are logged off or if your account is inactive". Now you are saying it is not true anymore. Sometimes i have trips when i cannot play game, there fore i cannot access server. Well, i think the current subscription fee is a bit too high just for ability to train skills while not being able to log into game. I'm not against paying for being able to train skills while logged off or inactive, but there should be different subscription fee, not general one. I think, i'm not buying this change, up until any significant change will be made or this particular issue will be reverted. |
Mamorran
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 11:48:00 -
[3385]
Well done to CCP, I fully support your desire to make people pay for using your service. I was amazed that this was possible in the first place to be honest. I can't see how anyone could try to argue a case for this not being ok. |
Counter Spy
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 11:48:00 -
[3386]
Originally by: Rancid Oswald
Originally by: ClimberDave When I paid my subscription, I paid for the Eve, I paid for the features of Eve. Now one of the features I have paid for is been removed with 2 days notice. I would therefore like a refund of my last subscription.
Ghost training was never a Paid service. You FAIL!
But a ghost training was a feature in game for what customers paid. You fail!!! That was no bug. In Chinese server CCP fixed these bug 3 years ago, but here not ? Because the ghost training was not bug. |
Rancid Oswald
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 11:48:00 -
[3387]
Edited by: Rancid Oswald on 15/10/2008 11:48:37
Originally by: ViolenTUK
Originally by: Rancid Oswald
Originally by: ClimberDave When I paid my subscription, I paid for the Eve, I paid for the features of Eve. Now one of the features I have paid for is been removed with 2 days notice. I would therefore like a refund of my last subscription.
Ghost training was never a Paid service. You FAIL!
Yes it was a feature of the game and has been advertised as such for 5 years.
Wrong!
The "feature" was un-intended, aka a bug. It was never "part of the game" It was not "advertised" though it was "documented" when discovered. |
Lord Raiko
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 11:48:00 -
[3388]
Removed. Please keep racist comments off the forums. Navigator |
Shop'til'I drop
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 11:48:00 -
[3389]
I, Too, Would like you stuffs Good bye my ghost training friends |
WaiKin Beldar
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 11:49:00 -
[3390]
Originally by: Rancid Oswald
Originally by: ClimberDave When I paid my subscription, I paid for the Eve, I paid for the features of Eve. Now one of the features I have paid for is been removed with 2 days notice. I would therefore like a refund of my last subscription.
Ghost training was never a Paid service. You FAIL!
WRONG! As a genuine feature included in the original game YOU PAID FOR IT as well as the rest of features of the game.
WHAT you don't understand is that NOW CCP wants you to pay for it APART. |
|
Azuraito
Caldari Capital Produce Free Trade Zone.
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 11:50:00 -
[3391]
Originally by: Xhanti
Originally by: Azuraito
Originally by: Counter Spy Inactive players make module lag ? You are a morron.
You misspelt moron!
Use firefox, it has a localised spell checker for nubs like yourself!
OMG he misspelled something that u fully understood anyway.. what a loser..
maybe english isnt his first language , lets see u type "moron" in swedish and see if u spell it right, do we have the rights to flame u then?
Sure you do, btw.. is Sweden a country or a county of Norway? |
ViolenTUK
Gallente Vindicated Exiles
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 11:51:00 -
[3392]
Originally by: Mamorran Well done to CCP, I fully support your desire to make people pay for using your service. I was amazed that this was possible in the first place to be honest. I can't see how anyone could try to argue a case for this not being ok.
The argument is that this has been an advertised feature of the game for 5 years. Not only that it has been a quintessential issue for many to subscribe to the game in the first place. |
Leeluvv
Federation of Freedom Fighters Executive Outcomes
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 11:51:00 -
[3393]
Let me see if I have this right:
All the people that have cancelled their accounts in order to ghost train are threatening to cancel their accounts?
Remind me why this is even vaguely a threat?
;-p
Lee |
Tobey Torres
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 11:52:00 -
[3394]
Originally by: Lord Raiko Removed. Please keep racist comments off the forums. Navigator
hmm coincidence....i think NOT! |
Xhanti
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 11:52:00 -
[3395]
Originally by: Azuraito
Originally by: Xhanti
Originally by: Azuraito
Originally by: Counter Spy Inactive players make module lag ? You are a morron.
You misspelt moron!
Use firefox, it has a localised spell checker for nubs like yourself!
OMG he misspelled something that u fully understood anyway.. what a loser..
maybe english isnt his first language , lets see u type "moron" in swedish and see if u spell it right, do we have the rights to flame u then?
Sure you do, btw.. is Sweden a country or a county of Norway?
You sir, are an american.. im sorry |
Hisa Me
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 11:53:00 -
[3396]
Ummm maybe because after the ghost training is done they resubscribe........... Got any clues there chopper? Originally by: Leeluvv Let me see if I have this right:
All the people that have cancelled their accounts in order to ghost train are threatening to cancel their accounts?
Remind me why this is even vaguely a threat?
;-p
Lee
|
Tobey Torres
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 11:53:00 -
[3397]
Originally by: Leeluvv Let me see if I have this right:
All the people that have cancelled their accounts in order to ghost train are threatening to cancel their accounts?
Remind me why this is even vaguely a threat?
;-p
good point
Lee
|
Rancid Oswald
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 11:53:00 -
[3398]
No, during beta testing it was discovered, it was never "part of the game" it was a bug, at the time either it couldn't be fixed or CCP allowed it to happen.
In either sense, CCP allowed and now things have changed, as with every other nerf that has gone on in eve you either adapt or leave. No other MMo I have plyed allowed your character to increase experiance/skills/money when the account has gone inactive (i.e. unpaid for).
I do agree that the 48 hour notice is bad, but I ain't quiting over this, my alt went inactive over a month ago training cruise missles lvl5, it still has 5 days to go, am I bothered? No! |
northwesten
Amarr Trinity Corporate Services
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 11:54:00 -
[3399]
Originally by: Rancid Oswald Edited by: Rancid Oswald on 15/10/2008 11:48:37
Originally by: ViolenTUK
Originally by: Rancid Oswald
Originally by: ClimberDave When I paid my subscription, I paid for the Eve, I paid for the features of Eve. Now one of the features I have paid for is been removed with 2 days notice. I would therefore like a refund of my last subscription.
Ghost training was never a Paid service. You FAIL!
Yes it was a feature of the game and has been advertised as such for 5 years.
Wrong!
The "feature" was un-intended, aka a bug. It was never "part of the game" It was not "advertised" though it was "documented" when discovered.
/facepam
your wrong. it was never a bug. it was a feature. it's in the knowledge database and there info on training. They just went the wrong way about changing it and just **** a lot of people for there bullcrap. They should of state due to money etc they have to make changes. At least people will understand it. Tho I understand it does need sorting but just went the complete wrong way about it.
So in turn it was part of the game. tho like they said people taking the **** abit with it!
Tho to the whinner out there STFU and email your complaint or STFU! it's done and move on or just go else where. |
Masazak
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 11:54:00 -
[3400]
I do not support this change but if you, - Add a skill queue - Allow training of all characters on one account AND/OR - Implement an alternative method of skilling up characters besides time.
Then I will be happy enough.
I do not specialise my character and can do a lot of things so I can try different things, but waiting a few months for the skills to do something then finding it is not something I liked is annoying.
It does not (and should not) have to be easy to skill up using an alternative method but it should be seriously considered.
In terms of player cost/benefit, long skills almost never pay off. Eg. over 40 days to train marauder 5 and by then I will have had enough hunting in it and will be focusing on some other skill.
I just hope this decision is not the end of EVE Mas |
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Azuraito
Caldari Capital Produce Free Trade Zone.
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 11:54:00 -
[3401]
Edited by: Azuraito on 15/10/2008 11:55:03
Originally by: Xhanti
Originally by: Azuraito
Originally by: Xhanti
Originally by: Azuraito
Originally by: Counter Spy Inactive players make module lag ? You are a morron.
You misspelt moron!
Use firefox, it has a localised spell checker for nubs like yourself!
OMG he misspelled something that u fully understood anyway.. what a loser..
maybe english isnt his first language , lets see u type "moron" in swedish and see if u spell it right, do we have the rights to flame u then?
Sure you do, btw.. is Sweden a country or a county of Norway?
You sir, are an american.. im sorry
Nope and english also is not my first language |
ViolenTUK
Gallente Vindicated Exiles
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 11:55:00 -
[3402]
Originally by: Rancid Oswald
Wrong!
The "feature" was un-intended, aka a bug. It was never "part of the game" It was not "advertised" though it was "documented" when discovered.
Yes you are wrong. Documenting a trait or facet of a game mechanic publicly IS advertising a feature. This HAS been a feature of the game for 5 years. It is completely irrelevant whether it was intended or not. |
Counter Spy
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 11:56:00 -
[3403]
Originally by: Azuraito
Originally by: Counter Spy Inactive players make module lag ? You are a morron.
You misspelt moron!
Use firefox, it has a localised spell checker for nubs like yourself!
Hey ******, you heard about for the Evemon can send for you mail, when the training completed ? Or you can use the program database from cache ? Use the spellchecker you noob without knowledge. |
Zinnn
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 11:56:00 -
[3404]
Why not just remove Research points altogether? Seriously, you shouldn't get something without working for it... Right? .... RIGHT? .. Oh wait, that dynamic is OK cause hey, that would remove FEATURES from the game... People would leave if you removed RP from the game, we wouldn't want that. |
Jinx Barker
GFB Scientific
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 11:57:00 -
[3405]
Please. CCp Developers used this "feature" to show the world on how "flexible" EVE is for an average person. That it is not necessary to worry about lapsed accounts, and one can always come back to something special.
Jut do a little research and look at interviews by Oveur, and, forget his name, the CEO of CCP, and many, many other developers, have al;ways insisted this was a feature and sign of flexibility of EVE Online.
What is happening now is a called a MONEY GRAB. Which makes me nervous, since in many respects a MONEY GRAB in corporations usually comes ahead of some severe financial trouble, and usually, the MONEY GRABs do not work for the corporations because their customers will only make their financial situation worse by leaving.
This is usually what happens:
1) Money GRAB 2) Short-Term Liquidity Achieved 3) Customer base starts to leave 4) Problems they thought will be alleviated by the "money grab" get worse.
I will watch with some fascination as to what is going to happen next. |
Levenson
Unknown Corp
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 11:57:00 -
[3406]
We should write petitions. |
Azuraito
Caldari Capital Produce Free Trade Zone.
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 11:58:00 -
[3407]
Originally by: Counter Spy
Originally by: Azuraito
Originally by: Counter Spy Inactive players make module lag ? You are a morron.
You misspelt moron!
Use firefox, it has a localised spell checker for nubs like yourself!
Hey ******, you heard about for the Evemon can send for you mail, when the training completed ? Or you can use the program database from cache ? Use the spellchecker you noob without knowledge.
No need for profanity!, did i upset you? ROFLOL |
Lord Fitz
Project Amargosa
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 11:58:00 -
[3408]
Originally by: Rancid Oswald Wrong!
The "feature" was un-intended, aka a bug. It was never "part of the game" It was not "advertised" though it was "documented" when discovered.
Wrong!
For it to be a bug, it has to be either unknown or something you are not yet able to fix. This is how it has always worked on the Serenity server, so the 'fix' to this 'bug' was available years ago, and it was deliberately not implemented. You know what they call behaviour that is preserved intentionally ?
I'll give you a hint. It's not a bug.
You don't go putting 'extra' effort into writing a version that behaves differently then sit on a 'bug fix' for several years. This is the feature that became a bug.
If it ever was a bug, instead of being documented in the player guide, it would be documented in the known issues list. That's where you document 'bugs'. |
Jowen Datloran
Caldari Science and Trade Institute
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 11:59:00 -
[3409]
Edited by: Jowen Datloran on 15/10/2008 12:02:36
Originally by: Rancid Oswald No, during beta testing it was discovered, it was never "part of the game" it was a bug, at the time either it couldn't be fixed or CCP allowed it to happen.
Who the heck stopped paying subscription and went on doing ghost training during beta? How is that even possible?
True this bug/feature has been well known for a long time, but so has the possibilities to get rid of it. It is seriously not a hard one to remove, so it is in that light we need to ask your selves: why is this bug/feature fixed now? |
Shop'til'I drop
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 12:00:00 -
[3410]
Originally by: Jinx Barker
Please. CCp Developers used this "feature" to show the world on how "flexible" EVE is for an average person. That it is not necessary to worry about lapsed accounts, and one can always come back to something special.
Jut do a little research and look at interviews by Oveur, and, forget his name, the CEO of CCP, and many, many other developers, have al;ways insisted this was a feature and sign of flexibility of EVE Online.
What is happening now is a called a MONEY GRAB. Which makes me nervous, since in many respects a MONEY GRAB in corporations usually comes ahead of some severe financial trouble, and usually, the MONEY GRABs do not work for the corporations because their customers will only make their financial situation worse by leaving.
This is usually what happens:
1) Money GRAB 2) Short-Term Liquidity Achieved 3) Customer base starts to leave 4) Problems they thought will be alleviated by the "money grab" get worse.
I will watch with some fascination as to what is going to happen next.
^^ THIS |
|
Big Al
Stoat's Ultimate Carebear Adventure
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 12:00:00 -
[3411]
Originally by: Leeluvv Let me see if I have this right:
All the people that have cancelled their accounts in order to ghost train are threatening to cancel their accounts?
Remind me why this is even vaguely a threat?
Here's a shock, most people who ghost train have at least 1 active account at a time. Personally I really dislike eve and only play it for the progressquest aspect. Here are my characters:
http://ineve.net/skills/character.php?charID=MTU1MDk0NTQ5 http://ineve.net/skills/character.php?charID=MTQ0NTY1MDM4 http://ineve.net/skills/character.php?charID=NTEyNDYyODIw http://ineve.net/skills/character.php?charID=OTMxNjk5OTc4 http://ineve.net/skills/character.php?charID=MTExNDA2MDA3 http://ineve.net/skills/character.php?charID=ODc1NjE2ODEy
3 are currently active and have posted in this thread. Somehow the brilliant minds at CCP think people running 2 accounts that will continue to run 2 (a decent % most likely) will outnumber the people running 3-7 accounts that will drop several. I think they will be sorely mistaken. |
Jinx Barker
GFB Scientific
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 12:01:00 -
[3412]
Originally by: Jowen Datloran
Originally by: Rancid Oswald No, during beta testing it was discovered, it was never "part of the game" it was a bug, at the time either it couldn't be fixed or CCP allowed it to happen.
Who the heck stopped paying subscription and went on doing ghost training during beta? How is that even possible?
|
DRACO selen
Dark Rising Shadow Executive Outcomes
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 12:01:00 -
[3413]
Quote: Todays downtime extended for 15 minutes due to database maintenance. Tranquility will be back up at 12:15 GMT
Seems as there are many accounts, wich were ghost training |
Hisa Me
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 12:02:00 -
[3414]
Originally by: Big Al
Originally by: Leeluvv Let me see if I have this right:
All the people that have cancelled their accounts in order to ghost train are threatening to cancel their accounts?
Remind me why this is even vaguely a threat?
Here's a shock, most people who ghost train have at least 1 active account at a time. Personally I really dislike eve and only play it for the progressquest aspect. Here are my characters:
http://ineve.net/skills/character.php?charID=MTU1MDk0NTQ5 http://ineve.net/skills/character.php?charID=MTQ0NTY1MDM4 http://ineve.net/skills/character.php?charID=NTEyNDYyODIw http://ineve.net/skills/character.php?charID=OTMxNjk5OTc4 http://ineve.net/skills/character.php?charID=MTExNDA2MDA3 http://ineve.net/skills/character.php?charID=ODc1NjE2ODEy
3 are currently active and have posted in this thread. Somehow the brilliant minds at CCP think people running 2 accounts that will continue to run 2 (a decent % most likely) will outnumber the people running 3-7 accounts that will drop several. I think they will be sorely mistaken.
Can I have some stuff? <3 |
freddy madball
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 12:03:00 -
[3415]
they change this, and that to make more money, ok, corporate move.. the old guard is gone, and the suits have apparently taken command.
they lie profusely about this so called " balance " fix, and throw in " you want to advance on our fruits and labors you pay for it ( paraphrased) " ok, fair enough, but how bout you provide a macro free environment? stable nodes that dont crash and desync during big battles? how about more realistic training times, or multiple character training? i mean , you are getting fat off the fruits of our labors... if we respect the fruits of yours, you should respect the income you make off of us. Had you no subscribers.. the fruits of your labors would be.... well worthless no?
and in further news...( british bbc news caster voice, nice calm and stoic) ccp decides that all skill time training multipliers will now doubble in an even more shameless grab for as many dollars as they can grab before things go belly up...
i wonder if they are building in some golden parachutes for themselves :-P
should have been honest up front, and not spit in the face of every paying customer, with your line about " fruits of your labor" when you are nothing more then a comoddity that has been plagued with problems for some time now that you seem incapable or unwilling to fix.
Throwing hardware wont solve the macroing isk farmers will it? i mean ok maybe if they were standing under a windown and all...but no.... ccp doesnt wantto do anything about them because they pay for all those accounts. stunning just simply stunning :)
anyway my .02 isk for now :) |
Jac Straw
Tribal Liberation Force
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 12:04:00 -
[3416]
lol, I can't believe people are complaing about a company a) Increasing prices, b) stop giving things away for nothing.
The Real World is in a crisis finacially. Every company is strugling to make money with the increase of costs. People are reducing their spending. Companys have to change their business model to match the economics of the system. So yes maybe CCP are doing this to raise more money or to cut overheads in some way. Either way companys adapt or fail and are never seen again.
We got something for free, and I guess those (including me) who have alt accounts like to slip them inactive but make sure a long skill is training when we need extra cash in our hands. This is CCP's way of the same thing, we need extra cash, remove a feature to force people to pay, or cut overheads and allow these accounts to die.
Yes its sh*ty, yes the customers are to suffer, but I wouldn't like to see a company fail just to please its customers. |
Mamorran
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 12:05:00 -
[3417]
hear hear, I couldn't agree more.
|
Marus Safeld
Caldari Trojans Souls of Vengeance
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 12:05:00 -
[3418]
Edited by: Marus Safeld on 15/10/2008 12:06:53
Originally by: Jinx Barker What is happening now is a called a MONEY GRAB. Which makes me nervous, since in many respects a MONEY GRAB in corporations usually comes ahead of some severe financial trouble, and usually, the MONEY GRABs do not work for the corporations because their customers will only make their financial situation worse by leaving.
I have the same impression.
They can perhaps pay the light bills for another month or 2 with this stunt but when the revenue stream dries out they'll find themselfes in the need of firing non-vital employees and perhaps even putting the development of WoD on hold.
I once considered CCP a company I could work for. Now I find myself wondering if they could actually affort my skills. |
Shop'til'I drop
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 12:05:00 -
[3419]
Edited by: Shop''til''I drop on 15/10/2008 12:05:31
Giev Stuff Or Bump!!11! |
Graf Ibori
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 12:06:00 -
[3420]
Can i have some free Titans please...? |
|
Cazzah
Caldari Eve University Ivy League
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 12:08:00 -
[3421]
Edited by: Cazzah on 15/10/2008 12:09:07
Originally by: Jac Straw lol, I can't believe people are complaing about a company a) Increasing prices, b) stop giving things away for nothing.
The Real World is in a crisis finacially. Every company is strugling to make money with the increase of costs. People are reducing their spending. Companys have to change their business model to match the economics of the system. So yes maybe CCP are doing this to raise more money or to cut overheads in some way. Either way companys adapt or fail and are never seen again.
We got something for free, and I guess those (including me) who have alt accounts like to slip them inactive but make sure a long skill is training when we need extra cash in our hands. This is CCP's way of the same thing, we need extra cash, remove a feature to force people to pay, or cut overheads and allow these accounts to die.
Yes its sh*ty, yes the customers are to suffer, but I wouldn't like to see a company fail just to please its customers.
This issue many are having Jac is that veteran players, who will be operating a few accounts, while having several other ghosting accounts, will end up removing accounts and paying less. And similarly, younger players will be reluctant to start another account if they cannot ghost train that dread they want to ultimately obtain (or whatever ship_.
Many people (myself included) believe that this feature is what keeps people coming back to Eve after long breaks and in the end, removal of this feature will lose CCP money. Do remember that to ghost train a SINGLE skill, you must pay 2 months subscription (1 to start the skill, another to change it) |
Brown Dealer
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 12:08:00 -
[3422]
I understand the reasons for turning of "Ghost training".. but how this was done is far from being community friendly.
Yes, the service should paid that'ok. I was surprised once discovered it.
But how could I switch the skill even If I paid for the game while I'm on vacation?
So there are 2 options: 1) Skill Training Queue (3-5 skills would be good enough) 2) Ability to switch skill without entering the game (i.e through the web).. and might be ability to assign a representative or two in order to perform this. Trusted corp mate could do switching skills but without entering game of course.
Both options are not sounds too complicated and I believe your programmers could imlement those in a day.
|
Lord Fitz
Project Amargosa
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 12:08:00 -
[3423]
Originally by: Jac Straw So yes maybe CCP are doing this to raise more money or to cut overheads in some way. Either way companys adapt or fail and are never seen again.
I think that's sort of the point, it's going to lose them money, and increase overheads. And I'm not talking about rage quitters. I'm talking about the psychological construct that gets ex-players to return to the game. This isn't something that anyone posting here is doing, it's the people that quit for non-rage reasons, that are going to lose the incentive to return, thus costing CCP money. The situation is lose-lose. There is no winner here, not even CCP. I don't think people would mind paying more for the game, or even donating money if it helped improve the game, but here is a decision being made without any respect for the significant negative consequences it will have to their bottom line. |
Skogen Gump
Jericho Fraction
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 12:09:00 -
[3424]
Originally by: Masazak
I do not specialise my character and can do a lot of things so I can try different things, but waiting a few months for the skills to do something then finding it is not something I liked is annoying.
Seriously, you're telling me that you don't like waiting for skills so you actually plan to set a skill and then stop paying for a while, in the knowledge that when you come back, you'll have progressed without having to pay or make any effort ?
You are the exact reason why CCP is doing this.
Disgusted. |
Counter Spy
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 12:09:00 -
[3425]
Can i have your stuff babies will cry when the players who go away reprocess the rare BPO-s and ships :) |
Jac Straw
Tribal Liberation Force
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 12:09:00 -
[3426]
Originally by: Marus Safeld Edited by: Marus Safeld on 15/10/2008 12:06:53
Originally by: Jinx Barker What is happening now is a called a MONEY GRAB. Which makes me nervous, since in many respects a MONEY GRAB in corporations usually comes ahead of some severe financial trouble, and usually, the MONEY GRABs do not work for the corporations because their customers will only make their financial situation worse by leaving.
I have the same impression.
They can perhaps pay the light bills for another month or 2 with this stunt but when the revenue stream dries out they'll find themselfes in the need of firing non-vital employees and perhaps even putting the development of WoD on hold.
I once considered CCP a company I could work for. Now I find myself wondering if they could actually affort my skills.
If the company was that hard up on money then this is a sad attempt at raising cash, firstly they would cut over heads by paying off non-essential employees, then reduce costs in some way. This removal will not raise anymore cash, infact its likely the income will drop if emoragequiters actually quit. |
Levenson
Unknown Corp
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 12:09:00 -
[3427]
Originally by: Jinx Barker
Please. CCp Developers used this "feature" to show the world on how "flexible" EVE is for an average person. That it is not necessary to worry about lapsed accounts, and one can always come back to something special.
Jut do a little research and look at interviews by Oveur, and, forget his name, the CEO of CCP, and many, many other developers, have al;ways insisted this was a feature and sign of flexibility of EVE Online.
What is happening now is a called a MONEY GRAB. Which makes me nervous, since in many respects a MONEY GRAB in corporations usually comes ahead of some severe financial trouble, and usually, the MONEY GRABs do not work for the corporations because their customers will only make their financial situation worse by leaving.
This is usually what happens:
1) Money GRAB 2) Short-Term Liquidity Achieved 3) Customer base starts to leave 4) Problems they thought will be alleviated by the "money grab" get worse.
I will watch with some fascination as to what is going to happen next.
^^^^ CCP! Read this attentively! |
Jowen Datloran
Caldari Science and Trade Institute
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 12:10:00 -
[3428]
Originally by: Jac Straw
The Real World is in a crisis finacially. Every company is strugling to make money with the increase of costs. People are reducing their spending. Companys have to change their business model to match the economics of the system. So yes maybe CCP are doing this to raise more money or to cut overheads in some way. Either way companys adapt or fail and are never seen again.
Yes, we are all perfectly aware of that, but according to CCP this is not the reason for the change. If it were the reason they could easily tell us and everybody would have understanding for it, but they do not. |
Loyal Servant
Caldari PURE Legion Pure.
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 12:10:00 -
[3429]
Unfortunately our sandbox is not worth anything to them. So, it's been a long run and I had a blast.
I hung out despite the fact they spit in my face on a regular basis by allowing isk farmers to run rampant...
They made their choice, now I make mine.
|
Lord Fitz
Project Amargosa
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 12:10:00 -
[3430]
Originally by: Marus Safeld I once considered CCP a company I could work for. Now I find myself wondering if they could actually affort my skills.
They must be paying peanuts, because they're getting monkeys. Thank god it's impossible for the devs to be less competent than the PR people. |
|
freddy madball
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 12:11:00 -
[3431]
Originally by: Brown Dealer I understand the reasons for turning of "Ghost training".. but how this was done is far from being community friendly.
Yes, the service should paid that'ok. I was surprised once discovered it.
But how could I switch the skill even If I paid for the game while I'm on vacation?
So there are 2 options: 1) Skill Training Queue (3-5 skills would be good enough) 2) Ability to switch skill without entering the game (i.e through the web).. and might be ability to assign a representative or two in order to perform this. Trusted corp mate could do switching skills but without entering game of course.
Both options are not sounds too complicated and I believe your programmers could imlement those in a day.
Last i checked, allowing a " friend" to access your acount is against their t.o.s. even if you allow it just for skilling.
so really skill training que would be the only way to solve that. |
UnDeRBaLaNcE
The Dead Parrot Shoppe Inc.
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 12:11:00 -
[3432]
Originally by: Patric Riegns Open letter to CCP I and many others unaffected by the ghost training are watching this and evaluating whether we actually want to do business with a company like yours any longer. Currently the answer is no.
You sir are wrong, I read this thread every page of it, and I see many who careless about this change and still play as we did before.
People keep saying this feature, a feature is something that it comes with, if itÆs an unintended "bug" or issue it's still a feature of it because itÆs associated with the object. Lag is a feature of Jita. Is it intended to be laggy? No.Æ But itÆs a feature and itÆs being worked on. If you look up feature you guys are missing construing it to be a benefit. Features are not only benefits.
Yes CCP may want to fix it now, but just because itÆs a feature does not mean it must be changed or not change. Long before most of you played it was announced as an unintended feature. Meaning it was not meant to be but they were leaving it in for now. I am sure if you take the time to search the archives it can be found. Yes advertising a feature that was unintended may not have been the best idea, but it was announced before most of you even thought of downloading eve. Perhaps thatÆs why most of the players who think itÆs a fine change youÆll find are older players.
|
Manni Delo
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 12:11:00 -
[3433]
"Ghost Training" Is one of the reasons i play this game, I would've like to have thought that being able to step back and take a break and then return with new shiny things which will make returning more likely, would be good PR for CCP.
CCP should have accepted training while inactive as a feature (which they have in the player guide, but are now backstepping on it) rather then remove it, it is a way to guarentee return business (and reward people for returning) and allow people some room to breathe and take a break.
What does it matter anyway, 200 other people have said the same thing, and by the looks of it CCP doesn't listen to a single word their PAYING audience says. |
Anidis
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 12:11:00 -
[3434]
Originally by: Azuraito
Originally by: Anidis an example: a player activate a skill, which needs to train 3 weeks. his account is activated for the next 2 weeks. he plan to extend his account while the next week. but now and work he is getting injured and sent to hospital for the next month. he planed everything but with this action you punish him too.
If i was injured in the hospital, that last thing on my mind would be skill training in eve roflol
Where do they come up with these
was just an exmaple for a reason to be inactive. same like you are in holidays come back and recongnised you forgot extending eve. it is unfair for them i think. and i think there are gamers who think about that^^ |
Marus Safeld
Caldari Trojans Souls of Vengeance
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 12:12:00 -
[3435]
Originally by: Jac Straw lol, I can't believe people are complaing about a company a) Increasing prices, b) stop giving things away for nothing.
Noone is complaining about that.
People are angry because of the way it was done.
The Power of Two campaign shortly followed by this and then the whole covering up and damage containment attempts.
People feel betrayed by a company they have shown loyality to.
You can flame bait all you want. This thread won't be derailed by a few trolls like yourself. The matter is too serious.
Noone can tell yet how it will impact CCP but one thing is for sure: It will have a stronger impact than every thing before, including the T20 incident. |
Rancid Oswald
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 12:13:00 -
[3436]
Originally by: Cazzah Edited by: Cazzah on 15/10/2008 12:09:07
Originally by: Jac Straw lol, I can't believe people are complaing about a company a) Increasing prices, b) stop giving things away for nothing.
The Real World is in a crisis finacially. Every company is strugling to make money with the increase of costs. People are reducing their spending. Companys have to change their business model to match the economics of the system. So yes maybe CCP are doing this to raise more money or to cut overheads in some way. Either way companys adapt or fail and are never seen again.
We got something for free, and I guess those (including me) who have alt accounts like to slip them inactive but make sure a long skill is training when we need extra cash in our hands. This is CCP's way of the same thing, we need extra cash, remove a feature to force people to pay, or cut overheads and allow these accounts to die.
Yes its sh*ty, yes the customers are to suffer, but I wouldn't like to see a company fail just to please its customers.
This issue many are having Jac is that veteran players, who will be operating a few accounts, while having several other ghosting accounts, will end up removing accounts and paying less. And similarly, younger players will be reluctant to start another account if they cannot ghost train that dread they want to ultimately obtain (or whatever ship_.
Many people (myself included) believe that this feature is what keeps people coming back to Eve after long breaks and in the end, removal of this feature will lose CCP money. Do remember that to ghost train a SINGLE skill, you must pay 2 months subscription (1 to start the skill, another to change it)
Thank you for a mature responce
It is true, overall this will likely cause CCP's income to be reduced.
Personally I have took breaks from Eve 8weeks and I used ghost training to my advantage, but the skill I trained ran out in 5 weeks, did it bother me? No I wasn;t even sure if I would return to the game. I have returned, and those 3 weeks of lost time is well lost. Who cares.
The real problem are people taking advantage of the feature and training alts without paying, this is a disadvantage! |
Hevymetal
Caldari POT Corp
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 12:13:00 -
[3437]
Originally by: Leeluvv Let me see if I have this right:
All the people that have cancelled their accounts in order to ghost train are threatening to cancel their accounts?
Remind me why this is even vaguely a threat?
;-p
Lee
Because they would eventually resubscribe and reactivate their account. Bringing more revenue back to CCP. As it stands now many of these people will NEVER resubscribe, therefore CCP will never get this revenue back.
I see this as the biggest bonehead move CCP has done in my 2 years of playing EVE. Ghost training was a good selling point for CCP, it was unique amongst MMORPGs. It allowed the casual player to actually advance slightly without dedicating a majority of his or her free time to playing.
IMHO I forsee quite a large drop-off in the casual player demographic base that CCP draws from. There may be a minor increase in revenue for the 1st month or 2 but after that there will be many an account that remains idle until hell freezes over.
Seriously, CCP you need to take a step back, ponder your misguided decision and come to the realization you have just slit your own throat. If you wanted to expand your player base and increase your revenue stream this is surely not the way to achieve this goal.
Hopefully you can understand and see the 112 pages in this thread alone is a testiment to the discontent you have cause with this decision amongst your playerbase.
Hevymetal |
Zinnn
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 12:13:00 -
[3438]
It's already too late, CCP has made their bed and now they will have to live with the consequences. They've gone 2 days without changing the situation. Some people already quit. Others will quit within the next few months when they come back from holiday. This bait and switch situation will further add to people's fury. Frustration over not being able to fly a nice ship, does not trump the frustration over their own money woes. People choose to eat rather than play, and that's what will humble CCP. |
Concord Dioplomat
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 12:13:00 -
[3439]
People power has no power if the people don't use it.
If everyone who was unhappy about this were to open say, 15-20 trial accounts the extra load on the servers should be enough to make them start to listen.
adding to that if we all created petitions for every minor little glitch or bug that we all tend to ignore or work around this would add to their workload and make them earn the extra moolar that they so desperatly want.
Listen to YOUR customers |
Decimager
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 12:14:00 -
[3440]
I have never used this feature, never even knew it existed, so I won't miss it. as for the GTC thing, we HAVE to have somewhere in this game a very RICH person. I think they should but a ton of GTC and artificially drive the prices down.....once they are down they will stay there.
Oh and please if you are closing accounts for good PLEASE contract me your stuff, I will make good use of it.
|
|
yarrmarr
Ministry of War
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 12:14:00 -
[3441]
Originally by: UnDeRBaLaNcE
Originally by: Patric Riegns Open letter to CCP I and many others unaffected by the ghost training are watching this and evaluating whether we actually want to do business with a company like yours any longer. Currently the answer is no.
You sir are wrong, I read this thread every page of it, and I see many who careless about this change and still play as we did before.
People keep saying this feature, a feature is something that it comes with, if itÆs an unintended "bug" or issue it's still a feature of it because itÆs associated with the object. Lag is a feature of Jita. Is it intended to be laggy? No.Æ But itÆs a feature and itÆs being worked on. If you look up feature you guys are missing construing it to be a benefit. Features are not only benefits.
Yes CCP may want to fix it now, but just because itÆs a feature does not mean it must be changed or not change. Long before most of you played it was announced as an unintended feature. Meaning it was not meant to be but they were leaving it in for now. I am sure if you take the time to search the archives it can be found. Yes advertising a feature that was unintended may not have been the best idea, but it was announced before most of you even thought of downloading eve. Perhaps thatÆs why most of the players who think itÆs a fine change youÆll find are older players.
Maybe you should look up the definition of a feature before posting again. |
Skogen Gump
Jericho Fraction
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 12:15:00 -
[3442]
Originally by: Manni Delo
What does it matter anyway, 200 other people have said the same thing, and by the looks of it CCP doesn't listen to a single word their PAYING audience says.
200 people is a tiny fraction of the Subscriber base. Neither you nor I speak for them all. |
Kyle Broflovski
Caldari Imperium Galactica
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 12:17:00 -
[3443]
Fine! I'll go build my own MMO, with blackjack and hookers. In fact, forget the MMO and the blackjack. |
Big Al
Stoat's Ultimate Carebear Adventure
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 12:18:00 -
[3444]
Originally by: Skogen Gump
Originally by: Manni Delo
What does it matter anyway, 200 other people have said the same thing, and by the looks of it CCP doesn't listen to a single word their PAYING audience says.
200 people is a tiny fraction of the Subscriber base. Neither you nor I speak for them all.
Well, the thread is hidden and all, luckily they instalock anything on the general forum that links to it. |
Mr Manjuice
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 12:19:00 -
[3445]
If this was a Bug as CCP stated, then think about what i say next.
Knowingly using a Bug to your advantage is considered an Exploit. An exploit is Bannable. SO if this was a bug, how come all the people who have ghost trained (myself included) have not or was not banned??????
|
Zinnn
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 12:20:00 -
[3446]
Originally by: Skogen Gump
Originally by: Manni Delo
What does it matter anyway, 200 other people have said the same thing, and by the looks of it CCP doesn't listen to a single word their PAYING audience says.
200 people is a tiny fraction of the Subscriber base. Neither you nor I speak for them all.
now multiply 200 people by how many accounts they own on average. Let's say at least 2.5 per person. that's now 500 accounts. 500 accounts at say 1/3 a year's subscription (I don't know, someone else do the math) is still a good amount of income. |
DjLowballer
Amarr FLASHTROOPER CORP
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 12:20:00 -
[3447]
Could someone explain to me why they are so angry? Just pay for your extra accounts. This idea of entitlement that you should be able to progress in the game without paying makes no sense what so ever. Really, EvE players are supposed to be on the smarter side of the MMO spectrum but some of the replies here are just ignorant. |
Zinnn
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 12:20:00 -
[3448]
Edited by: Zinnn on 15/10/2008 12:21:00 stupid dbl post sry. |
Kename Fin
Caldari Dark Star Galactic Engineers
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 12:21:00 -
[3449]
And there it goes. Again with the extended downtimes. Maybe skills should train at double speed during downtimes. That would encourage them to get their stuff done with more alacrity.
I had the thought they could leave ghosttraining in and charge reactivation fee equal to the cost of time their last skill took. LOL - that wouldn't fly would it?
|
Jonathan Calvert
Minmatar Empire Mining and Trade
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 12:22:00 -
[3450]
If it helps, I will pay double or triple for my accts. This game is undervalued. |
|
Zinnn
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 12:22:00 -
[3451]
Originally by: DjLowballer Could someone explain to me why they are so angry? Just pay for your extra accounts. This idea of entitlement that you should be able to progress in the game without paying makes no sense what so ever. Really, EvE players are supposed to be on the smarter side of the MMO spectrum but some of the replies here are just ignorant.
And it really begs the question - what is your income bracket? |
Shintahr Karga
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 12:24:00 -
[3452]
EVE likes to advertise that they have over a quarter of a million players, although we all know for a fact that that just isn't true. Personally I've only seen 35,000, maybe 40,000 on very busy weekends. So on average, that would mean that for every actual player who plays EVE Online, they run anywhere between 6 and 7 playing accounts. This "bug" or "feature" that everyone keeps talking about, if it is in fact one or the other, has been part of this game for over 5 years. CCP is going completely in the wrong direction with eliminating ghost training, for better or for worse. For one, they're not substituting it for any new or innovative features. Off the top of my head (and from previous posters), there are a few options that seem reasonable:
1) Allow multiple characters to train on one account, but only allowing one character to be played at any time per account. 2) Continue ghost training, but require owners to designate a "primary account" in which they have to keep active at all times, and possibly even pay a premium fee to run up a certain amount of "alternate accounts" at any time.
I would think of more but I am quite exhausted. In any case, these alternative options should be available to those who have put the time building up multiple characters, if they are hardcore players who enjoy to have diverse skillsets for their various corporations or alliances, or more casual players just looking for different experiences. Ghost training shouldn't disappear completely, if CCP isn't offering players alternatives or "premium subscription plans" to enjoy something that has been part of EVE Online for so many years. |
Counter Spy
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 12:25:00 -
[3453]
Edited by: Counter Spy on 15/10/2008 12:24:45 Todays downtime extended for 30 minutes due .... blablabla
We want back some money, because we can't got service and we paid for the game. |
Skogen Gump
Jericho Fraction
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 12:25:00 -
[3454]
Originally by: DjLowballer Could someone explain to me why they are so angry? Just pay for your extra accounts. This idea of entitlement that you should be able to progress in the game without paying makes no sense what so ever. Really, EvE players are supposed to be on the smarter side of the MMO spectrum but some of the replies here are just ignorant.
There are two big flames going off here, One group of people are just angry that they are now forced to pay to level up. Whodathunkit?
The other group have (IMO) a more legitimate problem, which is the the way this change has been dropped on us, 2 days notice of a massive change to some peoples playing style and a certain amount of controversy over what was either a bug or a feature and how CCP are (allegedly) playing down the fact that they themselves mentioned this 'bug' as an apparent advantage of playing EVE.
I personally suspect that they always meant that you didn't need to be online to train, not that you didn't need to pay for your subscription to train - lets face it, that's not a USP, that's a stupid business decision! |
Ganymede21
FinFleet Band of Brothers
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 12:25:00 -
[3455]
Originally by: CCP Wrangler As the recent news stated, we will disable the ability to train skills on a suspended account. Since this has caused a lot of debate we've decided to explain why we are making this change in a new Dev Blog by t0rfifrans: Why ghost training was disabled.
I totaly agree to disable ghost training...too bad GTC prices will blow up ..and at this rate i wonder if they'll cost 1 bil in a month or so ~X( |
HE TA
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 12:26:00 -
[3456]
BTW, 30 minutes of extra downtime was already fully paid. But I can't play. Could I have +30 mins to my active subscription ?
|
Lord Fitz
Project Amargosa
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 12:27:00 -
[3457]
Edited by: Lord Fitz on 15/10/2008 12:28:38
Originally by: DjLowballer Could someone explain to me why they are so angry? Just pay for your extra accounts. This idea of entitlement that you should be able to progress in the game without paying makes no sense what so ever. Really, EvE players are supposed to be on the smarter side of the MMO spectrum but some of the replies here are just ignorant.
It's not about the money, it's about the principle. Plenty of us would pay twice as much, it's the fact that this change is going to cost CCP money, thus making the game worse for all of us who are paying.
You don't progress without paying, your skill continues to train however you can't login, or change the skill, or take advantage of it, without paying again.
The point is that without that incentive, many people simply will NOT pay again, thus CCP will lose money.
It's one thing to go on about ignorance, but another to do it without actually reading any of the responses before stating that they're ignorant.
Even paying for all accounts and never ghost training, the reasoning given here is just a blatant lie. It would be easier to accept if they were telling the truth, people don't respond well to being lied too, even if they don't care about the content of the lie. |
Richard Aiel
Caldari Caldari Provisions
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 12:28:00 -
[3458]
Quote:
Choosing an MMO to play is like choosing which large burley black guy you want to **** you up the arse while you pretend to like it.
lol |
Misanth
RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 12:29:00 -
[3459]
Edited by: Misanth on 15/10/2008 12:29:49
Originally by: CCP t0rfifrans The bug that became a feature
On Monday, we released news that we are disabling äGhost Trainingô, the ability to train characters on inactive accounts. This resulted in strong reactions from the community as many people were routinely making use of it. We explained the matter in more detail and pointed out that this had been a bug in the original game code. Those of us who were involved in the process of making the decision and communicating it to the community did not realize this bug had been so accepted as a feature that it was listed as such in our own documentation on our own website.
How can we not know whatæs in our own documentation? Well, to be frank, it was a case of insufficient communication on our part between various teams û a regrettable mistake and hard lesson to learn at the expense of the trust youæve placed in us. Thereæs no way to spin it and we wonæt add insult to injury by trying to do so. It was a mistake on our part and for that we sincerely and humbly apologize.
Many would hope that in light of this we will decide not to cancel ghost training and keep it active as an option but weære cannot to do that. EVE is already one-of-a-kind in allowing players to progress their characters through offline skill training. We stand by our policy that if you want your character to progress in EVE, you should pay the subscription fee. The fact that so many people have been able to do so for several years was our own oversight. We know this change, and our misstep in telling you about it, has created some discontent and we hope that over time we can prove our committment to make EVE better than ever for you will be evident as you enjoy the fruits of our labor.
Torfi
You know, that's not why people were upset. Stopping the ghost training is in much aspects sensible. The problem is your/CCP's way to address this issue, which was escalated by that mistake you mention in the manual.
This is a good sensible post which illustrate a bit better.
Remember what the CSM came from? The t20 incident (a guy you didn't even fire btw, another poor PR management decision). To provide transparency so the players could trust you guys at CCP. Where's the transparency from the CSM right now? They're just your errand boys, and they're suggesting game changes etc. That's not even what their work was supposed to be!
You need to learn your lessons. Right here, right now. Stop lying, stop spinning, straight to the point. Just speak your mind. We're not idiots, and this game you made is great, it deserves better management tho.
Sort out your PR. That's it. My 4 accounts stay put and I'll support you guys through 'nerfs' etc, not all decisions you take will be fun. But for ****s sake, start treating your customers like customers. Right now you behave as if we're some hillbilly s****and you're the upperclass politicians that sweettalk us with stupid words about 'change' and 'lower tax', but no constructive point to back up your statements. |
Lord Fitz
Project Amargosa
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 12:31:00 -
[3460]
Originally by: Ganymede21
Originally by: CCP Wrangler As the recent news stated, we will disable the ability to train skills on a suspended account. Since this has caused a lot of debate we've decided to explain why we are making this change in a new Dev Blog by t0rfifrans: Why ghost training was disabled.
I totaly agree to disable ghost training...too bad GTC prices will blow up ..and at this rate i wonder if they'll cost 1 bil in a month or so ~X(
They may increase in the next month, but they will decrease significantly after that when people find their alt is no longer cost effective, thus decreasing the demand for GTCs and CCP's overall revenue stream. |
|
Counter Spy
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 12:33:00 -
[3461]
Originally by: Ganymede21
Originally by: CCP Wrangler As the recent news stated, we will disable the ability to train skills on a suspended account. Since this has caused a lot of debate we've decided to explain why we are making this change in a new Dev Blog by t0rfifrans: Why ghost training was disabled.
I totaly agree to disable ghost training...too bad GTC prices will blow up ..and at this rate i wonder if they'll cost 1 bil in a month or so ~X(
No-no you are totally wrong. Not for bad GTC prices, but the CPP move on this way GTC will disappear. 30 days GTC was a first step. |
UnDeRBaLaNcE
The Dead Parrot Shoppe Inc.
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 12:33:00 -
[3462]
Edited by: UnDeRBaLaNcE on 15/10/2008 12:37:40
Originally by: yarrmarrMaybe/ you should look up the definition of a feature before posting again.
1. A good property or behaviour (as of a program). Whether it was intended or not is immaterial. 2. An intended property or behaviour (as of a program). Whether it is good or not is immaterial (but if bad, it is also a {misfeature}).
From Learn That
fea+ture (fchr) n. 1. a. Any of the distinct parts of the face, as the eyes, nose, or mouth. b. The overall appearance of the face or its parts. Often used in the plural. 2. A prominent or distinctive aspect, quality, or characteristic:
From The Free Dictionary (For you people who cant pay 14.95)
discuss the word feature Definition of feature (verb) forms: featured; featured; featuring to characterize; to depict; to describe; to present; to emphasize
From The English Test |
DRACO selen
Dark Rising Shadow Executive Outcomes
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 12:33:00 -
[3463]
Edited by: DRACO selen on 15/10/2008 12:34:23 woot I reactived one of my ghost trainers and they are still skilling? edit: did the feture became a bug again? |
Paladineguru
Gallente DAB G00DFELLAS
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 12:36:00 -
[3464]
Edited by: Paladineguru on 15/10/2008 12:42:32 Edited by: Paladineguru on 15/10/2008 12:39:14 I myself have used this feature.
I have not abused this feature.
My job in the military can sometimes force me away from entertainment for unspecified amounts of time. far more than the month for bs 5. in fact i trained bs 5 active. and you know. i did miss and think about eve. the friendly guys i play with ( and shoot at) were a nice reminder of a different life than the crap i happened to find myself assigned to. Any goverment employee will tell you how crap the pay is.
while eve wasnt exactly 100% on my mind. when i came home it was one of the things i had to budget for will less money due to how my job pays. ( more isk per hazard, kids etc...) so coming home from duty means less money. one of the things that kept me returning wasnt the pidling week or two i got of free training when my skill finished.
It was however the fact that a company cared enough about customers with my kind of schedule and real life conflicts to give a little back. thats why ive played this game since 2004 and paid for it whenever i had the time to play. that and the community ive had the priveledge to be part of and get to know.
only ccp can do the numbers but wouldnt it be more reasonable to leave a non abuser unpunished and leave the feature in. it might cost less on the bottom line to simply monitor it and pay someone to ban abusers, one more report on a gm's desk part of a list of names to be banzored. it shoud be relatively easy to tell whos ripping you off, and who is using a feature as intended.
though i would guess you can tell who the isk farmers and sellers are also after all isk only exists on your db. wouldnt eliminating them do more for you bottom line. i guess farmers pay thier subs :( |
Counter Spy
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 12:42:00 -
[3465]
Oh we got the bugfixed patch without download. LOL This indicates that there was no any kind of bug. |
DjLowballer
Amarr FLASHTROOPER CORP
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 12:42:00 -
[3466]
Originally by: Zinnn
Originally by: DjLowballer Stuff
And it really begs the question - what is your income bracket?
Not that its any of your business but its up there. But that really doesn¦t matter, each account is 15 currency per month. I have 2. totalling 30 per month which I pay in 6 month increments. Its 30$ per month, which is chump change considering the amount of enjoyment you can get out of the game. Can¦t afford to multi-account? Don¦t. It is not even me trying to sound BA, but logic says do not spend more money than you have. In Uni I played with 1 account and sucked it up. When my cashflow went up I got a second. Simple. You can cry all you want, but thats life. Some people have more money, some people have less and prioritze.
But to all these people ghosttraining 5-7 accounts(WTF), when they were all trained up were you going to activate them all at once? Or just sell them for easy isk.
I do think it could have been handled better by CCP, but in the end this really does not affect all of us paying customers with multiple accounts unless we want it to.
|
UnDeRBaLaNcE
The Dead Parrot Shoppe Inc.
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 12:44:00 -
[3467]
Originally by: Paladineguru Edited by: Paladineguru on 15/10/2008 12:39:14 I myself have used this feature.
I have not abused this feature.
My job in the military can sometimes force me away from entertainment for unspecified amounts of time. far more than the month for bs 5. in fact i trained bs 5 active. and you know. i did miss and think about eve. the friendly guys i play with ( and shoot at) were a nice reminder of a different life than the crap i happened to find myself assigned to. Any goverment employee will tell you how crap the pay is.
while eve wasnt exactly 100% on my mind. when i came home it was one of the things i had to budget for will less money due to how my job pays. ( more isk per hazard, kids etc...) so coming home from duty means less money. one of the things that kept me returning wasnt the pidling week or two i got of free training when my skill finished.
It was however the fact that a company cared enough about customers with my kind of schedule and real life conflicts to give a little back. thats why ive played this game since 2004 and paid for it whenever i had the time to play. that and the community ive had the priveledge to be part of and get to know.
only ccp can do the numbers but wouldnt it be more reasonable to leave a non abuser unpunished and leave the feature in. it might cost less on the bottom line to simply monitor it and pay someone to ban abusers, one more report on a gm's desk part of a list of names to be banzored. it shoud be relatively easy to tell whos ripping you off, and who is using a feature as intended.
Hey know you have help training.... not saying how because bad eula. But think about it. How else do most military train skills. help.. |
Arakn1s
Amarr Aurora Cartel AAA Citizens
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 12:46:00 -
[3468]
Originally by: imo vestuff Dear friend,
while i disagree with you about this as a reason to quit, i wish you everything good in whatever game your going to :)
Eve Online has been a blast with that many players, and im quite sure that others will come. However its still sad to see so many people go.
However since your not going to come back you wont need your stuff anymore, so i came up with an idea.
Why dont you contract all you own to me before you cancel your account? It wont hurt you to do so.
Im quite certain that you wonder what i would do with all that stuff.. so lets play with an open hand: im going to invest everything traded to me by leaving players (dont send your stuff if your not leaving!) and will build or buy a titan class vessel from it next year. This titan will be named "ghost trainer" as a memorial to all those who we lost to this change.
anyways, farewell, and see you in some other game :)
imo vestuff
QFT and get out of here |
Masazak
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 12:46:00 -
[3469]
Originally by: Skogen Gump
Originally by: Masazak
I do not specialise my character and can do a lot of things so I can try different things, but waiting a few months for the skills to do something then finding it is not something I liked is annoying.
Seriously, you're telling me that you don't like waiting for skills so you actually plan to set a skill and then stop paying for a while, in the knowledge that when you come back, you'll have progressed without having to pay or make any effort ?
You are the exact reason why CCP is doing this.
Disgusted.
Actually I get burned out or sick of playing, work gets in the way so does real life. So I take breaks and train skills which I would not normally train when playing for real to try them out. I have waited for most of my skills while playing but it has worn very thin recently.
I still keep coming back... which means CCP is getting my money. And as they do not delete accounts anyway there is no additional load on their systems from ghost trainers as the skills are only updated when accessed by an active account.
Other games I have left and never returned to. I don't want EVE to become one of them I as I do enjoy playing when I have the time.
A change like this will make me think twice. The spice of trying a new skill is sometimes the only thing that makes me come back.
Originally by: Skogen Gump Edited by: Skogen Gump on 15/10/2008 11:27:14
My suggestion is that they consider allowing ghost training for accounts that are linked to at least one active subscription.
Not a good idea imo. This just helps the alt accounts at the expense of single account holders. It should be all or none. |
Dkiler
Dkiller Delta Force Corp. CORPVS DELICTI
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 12:47:00 -
[3470]
"We explained the matter in more detail and pointed out that this had been a bug in the original game code."
GIVE ME A 4UCKING BREAK, so it took you over 5 years to figure out that bug, comon.. tell that fairytale to someone else
All i can say when the greedy pig gets fatter it just wants more and more, where will it end....?
And btw Mr.Wrangler,
insted of spending time on this why dont you fix the "Alliance logo sumission process" which is long overdue "21 of may" there you have a more important "bug" to fix for example !
|
|
Jasqar
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 12:49:00 -
[3471]
Originally by: Jowen Datloran Edited by: Jowen Datloran on 15/10/2008 12:02:36
Originally by: Rancid Oswald No, during beta testing it was discovered, it was never "part of the game" it was a bug, at the time either it couldn't be fixed or CCP allowed it to happen.
Who the heck stopped paying subscription and went on doing ghost training during beta? How is that even possible?
True this bug/feature has been well known for a long time, but so has the possibilities to get rid of it. It is seriously not a hard one to remove, so it is in that light we need to ask your selves: why is this bug/feature fixed now?
Originally by: Jowen Datloran Edited by: Jowen Datloran on 15/10/2008 12:02:36
Originally by: Rancid Oswald No, during beta testing it was discovered, it was never "part of the game" it was a bug, at the time either it couldn't be fixed or CCP allowed it to happen.
Who the heck stopped paying subscription and went on doing ghost training during beta? How is that even possible?
True this bug/feature has been well known for a long time, but so has the possibilities to get rid of it. It is seriously not a hard one to remove, so it is in that light we need to ask your selves: why is this bug/feature fixed now?
In beta we could train more than one character at a time. Was a bit of a stink when they announced that that would not continue in paid.
Was around the same time they announced the one character training per account at a time that i first heard of "ghost training".
If i am recalling it right was talked up as a way to get people that had left game to return, just a bit of incentive to re-sub. Having a skill continue training to completion, is just that, a bit of incentive. Same as never deleting the old characters, (over certain skill point total) if they did would be 0 reason to return and start from scratch.
All it is, or ever was, was a small way to say come back you will have a better skilled character when you do than when you left. They seem to think they can do away with this now and not lose too much income, time will tell i guess.
Personally, this game bores the heck out of me after a month or 2, and that was only reason i kept coming back, little better skilled and never deleted. Now it is down to just never deleted..well so far:P
So both my accounts are over on 18th, was planning on using this to train a lvl 5 skill on them both then re-sub. Now i don't think i will be coming back. |
Zareph
Merch Industrial GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 12:50:00 -
[3472]
It's clear they don't care. It's clear that some of the userbase doesn't either.
When the dust settles, and the accounts start going inactive, we'll see who really cares.
I for one have one account ending on Friday, another account I'm no longer reactivating as it still has 8d to go on mining barge 5, another account that while it finished Minnie BS 5 I am not reactivating because I'm not paying for Adv. Weapon Upgrades to train for a month, and a fourth account that shuts down on the 24th that will not be reactivated.
Then the last two accounts I own die days before christmas. Since I'm no where near a computer normally over the holiday odds are when 2009 starts I'll be looking for a new game to play.
The last t |
Gartel Reiman
Civis Romanus Sum
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 12:53:00 -
[3473]
Seems entirely reasonable to me - if you're not keeping the account's subs up to date, your character is kept waiting as it was at expiry until you reactivate the account. Especially as it's possibly to play for $/Ç0 thanks to officially sanctioned GTCs-for-ISK, I can't see how this is considered unreasonable at all. |
KusariNinja
Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 12:53:00 -
[3474]
Edited by: KusariNinja on 15/10/2008 12:53:52
Originally by: Counter Spy Oh we got the bugfixed patch without download. LOL This indicates that there was no any kind of bug.
the "fix" would have been server side not client..... so it would not have required a patch to the client.
|
Zinnn
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 12:54:00 -
[3475]
Originally by: DjLowballer
Originally by: Zinnn
Originally by: DjLowballer Stuff
And it really begs the question - what is your income bracket?
Not that its any of your business but its up there. But that really doesn¦t matter, each account is 15 currency per month. I have 2. totalling 30 per month which I pay in 6 month increments. Its 30$ per month, which is chump change considering the amount of enjoyment you can get out of the game. Can¦t afford to multi-account? Don¦t. It is not even me trying to sound BA, but logic says do not spend more money than you have. In Uni I played with 1 account and sucked it up. When my cashflow went up I got a second. Simple. You can cry all you want, but thats life. Some people have more money, some people have less and prioritze.
But to all these people ghosttraining 5-7 accounts(WTF), when they were all trained up were you going to activate them all at once? Or just sell them for easy isk.
I do think it could have been handled better by CCP, but in the end this really does not affect all of us paying customers with multiple accounts unless we want it to.
There you go. If your income is up there, that explains why you do not see the issue. Other people's income is "down there" already, and it's already stretching their budgets, and instead of paying for an account, they'd prefer to get the GOOD macaroni and cheese, with expensive ketchup. |
Zinnn
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 12:56:00 -
[3476]
Edited by: Zinnn on 15/10/2008 12:56:26 Sorry didn't see someone's previous post that answered the same question.. nevermind. |
FortiusPrime
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 12:58:00 -
[3477]
I think it's totally bad idea. You choose bad time and bad season for that. I explain: why bad time ? Coz customers have alot of MMOPG for play, also there are alot of new "waining" games annoced - WoW:LotLK, Fallout3, Starcraft II (3 parts), Diablo III etc...
Bad season ??? Winter on the nose! all pplz will be hardcore gaming...
you have good competitors guyz and you do nothing for fight...
im gonna freeze my 2 accs and play in Blizzgames, hope u come to normal. peace! |
Counter Spy
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 12:59:00 -
[3478]
Originally by: KusariNinja Edited by: KusariNinja on 15/10/2008 12:53:52
Originally by: Counter Spy Oh we got the bugfixed patch without download. LOL This indicates that there was no any kind of bug.
the "fix" would have been server side not client..... so it would not have required a patch to the client.
Yes that was a server side fix, but not bugfix just a simple row in SQL database SKILL TRAINING END AT x.y date,time |
Jowen Datloran
Caldari Science and Trade Institute
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 13:03:00 -
[3479]
Edited by: Jowen Datloran on 15/10/2008 13:07:15 Why do I raise my voice here?
Firstly because it seems like the game developers, people who are able to create substantial things, are taking advices/orders from the men in suits, the people in Marketing, who do not care about the product or the customers only the amount of money in can bring in over a short time period.
The official CCP explanation is that this is an "unintended bug/feature". This explanation seems very little plausible as the bug/feature has been in knowing existence for years and so have the possibilities to get rid of it. Another official reason is that "too many people are taking advantage of it". What is many, and is it in total numbers (likely) or in percent (unlikely, but would have been the correct scale)? And is it an advantage over other players or and advantage of the billing system?
What is much more plausible is that the timing is related to the financial crisis that is tormenting Iceland these days, and it is an attempt to pull in a little more cash. Of course the guys in suits will never suggest you to tell these kinds of truths to the customers, even though it is obvious what is happening.
So while CCP claim to be "at level" with their player base, they are in fact moving further and further away and the corporate alienation of customers we know so well from EA and SoE is growing steady within CCP.
Finally, I do not see this as a clever move from a business point of view either. Ghost training is/was an incentive for many players to come back to the game after having had a period of "burn-out". Especially when you look at the date and start thinking about that it must be around now that your Battleship lvl 5 skill has finished and if you payed for your subscription again, you would be close to flying a Marauder. Now this incentive has to be replaced with even more commercials and free 14 days return offers. But in a game where skill training takes months 14 days is not much, and I just do not see it that effective.
Subscription number will not droop like a rock tomorrow, but the effect will be seen in half a year or so as for many people knowing about the previous existence of ghost training or not, the most sensible thing to do after a burn-out is to never to return to the game. Based on of course that the financial crisis do not kill off CCP before that. |
Mr Manjuice
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 13:07:00 -
[3480]
|
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Le Skunk
Low Sec Liberators
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 13:08:00 -
[3481]
Has this thread done a disappearing job again ?
SKUNK |
Mr Manjuice
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 13:09:00 -
[3482]
Or maybe the Sudden increase in people "ghosting" is that they have actually started playing warhammer? Stopping the ghost training maybe a good enough reason for many that are playing warhammer for a while to not come back. |
Counter Spy
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 13:12:00 -
[3483]
Forget it. The old mood flew away for a long time already. Where those times are when there was friendly mood for the makers. Where those times are when the entertainment was the essence, snowball launcher, lottery etc. His money hunger remained as the developers only already now nothing other. |
Maam
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 13:13:00 -
[3484]
Can I have ALL the stuff from everyone who's leaving?
I mean, you aren't coming back because you're sooo disgusted, so you won't be needing it ever again, right?
Then I will be the queen of stuffs, and own the most stuffs in the universe.
Num num num num. |
coolneo
Destructive Influence Band of Brothers
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 13:14:00 -
[3485]
all i can say is, CCP stop being so bloody greedy, i have 3 accounts, as of this months end of subscription i now will only have 1 as i will just transfer the other 2 chars to the one account, yes you will gain the 2 transfer fees but your losing 2 accounts worth of income from now on from myself.
The only time i have ever ghost trained was when i was away for holiday or work so doesnt really affect me much but i still think it stinks that yet again you move the goal posts for your subscribers, good business sense NOT |
Timeto Die
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 13:16:00 -
[3486]
Originally by: Gartel Reiman Seems entirely reasonable to me - if you're not keeping the account's subs up to date, your character is kept waiting as it was at expiry until you reactivate the account. Especially as it's possibly to play for $/Ç0 thanks to officially sanctioned GTCs-for-ISK, I can't see how this is considered unreasonable at all.
QFT. Everyone is just getting their manties in a bunch because they can't train up their super cap alt for free.
Moral of the story is never give people anything for free as a good deal to start with, as when you take away a toy that was a bonus to start with, you'll have to deal with a tsunami of tears. |
SZ Rota
Caldari Eve University Ivy League
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 13:17:00 -
[3487]
Edited by: SZ Rota on 15/10/2008 13:20:33 Edited by: SZ Rota on 15/10/2008 13:18:52
IÆve heard some people saying that it makes sense to pay to progress, thatÆs how things work. Yeah, nobody disagrees, nobody.
ThatÆs NOT the issue.
What you fools arenÆt grasping is that itÆs not that simple in Eve.
The key issue is industry standards.
The key issue is what you get for your 15 dollars in this game as compared to other games.
IÆve said it before, IÆll say it again.
When you buy a car, you have to pay extra for an all leather interior, but some things like the four wheels come standard.
You would laugh and walk out if a car salesman told you that two wheels on your car came standard, but you had to pay extra for the third and forth wheel.
ItÆs the same in Eve with regard to CCP trying to get people to pay to progress on all characters all the time.
Most players in most mmorpgs play more than one character. Alts are fundamental to enjoying an mmorpg. ThatÆs a fact in all mmorpgs, including Eve.
Industry standard in gaming is to allow players a few fully functional alts.
CCP, however, is the one subscription mmorpg where they only let you progress on ONE character at a time, ever, on ONE account.
Eve players bury themselves under blankets of denial about CCPÆs inferior service and content relative to other games.
I repeat, yet again.
Other games, a few characters come standard for your 15 dollars. You can bounce between each character playing different races, classes, areas, guilds, crafts, anything you want to explore the game.
In Eve, CCP wants you to pay 15 dollars a month for each and every character you play in the game and progress on. In other games, the same policy would cost you 15, 30, 45, 60 dollars a month to have alts.
Some people fool themselves in Eve by saying itÆs not so bad because they can pay for their game time with isk. News flash: you are being employed as a gold farmer for CCP. The game time card money still goes to CCP. They also get more money on that transaction than a regular subscription. AND, you who earned the isk, you spend labor doing that just the same as you would behind the counter at a fast food restaurant. Time is money, and you spend time earning that isk for that GTC.
Whatever the case, CCP cheats players in Eve, as compared to other mmos, by forcing players to pay 15 dollars / month for each and every progressing character in the game.
Ghost training was one feature that mitigated the outrageous cost of having multiple characters.
THAT, is one reason why some people feel æentitledÆ to ghost training.
EveÆs HUGE abuse of players isnÆt just this removal of ghost training.
The abuse goes way way back to the beginning with brain washing you fools into believing that itÆs normal to pay a separate 15 dollars for each progressing character you might want to build. This end to ghost training just exposes that dirty dirty festering disease by making people really ask themselves, ôWhy am I paying for a second account or third account? Is it really worth it?ö
Yes, I am a fool too for paying for two accounts, because I love the game just as much as you, but thatÆs gonna end soon. F this.
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kosmal
Wreckless Abandon G00DFELLAS
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 13:19:00 -
[3488]
We should all go and shoot caldari navy assembly plant at jita lag out the place crash the nodes... rebell aginst the bug- fix named solutions..... |
DjLowballer
Amarr FLASHTROOPER CORP
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 13:21:00 -
[3489]
Originally by: Zinnn
Originally by: DjLowballer
Originally by: Zinnn
Originally by: DjLowballer double stuff
There you go. If your income is up there, that explains why you do not see the issue. Other people's income is "down there" already, and it's already stretching their budgets, and instead of paying for an account, they'd prefer to get the GOOD macaroni and cheese, with expensive ketchup.
Essentially you what you are asking for is some sort of subsidized game welfare, where the maintinence of their accounts are paid for by people in the game. This makes no sense. Its like keeping your wow account active when you don¦t pay, earning gamefly dollars when your account is suspended, etc. Yeah I guess its a nice thing they let slide for awhile(that i apparently never knew about) but as companies grow they need to plug the leaks to remain viable.
BTW, Your example is laughable because if you are honestly in a position where the choice between eating and playing EvE is a real one, chances are you wont give 2 craps about when you will be flying that spiffy new carrier. More pressing issues like haus and utilities would come to mind. If I woke up tom broke, I know the first thing to go would be my gaming rig, tv, and stereo.
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Snake Tanuki
ZiTek
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Posted - 2008.10.15 13:22:00 -
[3490]
Seems like CCP took the official Blizzard "How do annoy the **** out of my playerbase" workshop and learned quite a lot there...
First they cripple GTCs, now they make the skill system suck more than Pamela Anderson. The best thing about EVE is that you actually don't have to play the laggy game to advance, you just have to pay and log in once every 30 days if you want to learn such pearls like Battleship V.
Ok, US bank jerks messed it up big time and now Iceland is broke, we are sorry. but the rest of us has financial problems too, not only you. so please stop robbing my wallet eben more, CCP. |
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Lydia Bennet
Caldari Alloyed Tritanium Bar And Grill
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 13:23:00 -
[3491]
Originally by: Rancid Oswald To all those who actually quit..
Bio your characters, ragequiting without biomassing means.."Argh unfair I quit!" then 2 weeks later...."Bored, I'll reactivate my account..."
So a real message, BIOMASS YOUR CHAR!!!
*shrug* I've already agreed on the sale of one of my characters. I've made an ad for another. I'll make an ad soon for third. And I'll most likely biomass the fourth, it wasn't all that far along, anyway.
I'll keep one character/account.
I'm not emoragequitting, I'm merely economising my EVE. Actually this is a good thing, makes me realise I'm wasting far too much money to push internet spaceship buttons on my screen.
Two of the chars are industrials, so I doubt anyone will open a new account for them. They'll more likely end up as alts on someone's main account. Which means those are subscriptions CCP will lose, even if I only paid for maybe 9 months out of 12 for them. |
Athena Rivera
Minmatar Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.10.15 13:27:00 -
[3492]
Wow, this thread is still going with the many tears shed from one feature. In my 3 years playing, I've used it once on my alt to blitz through battleship lvl V mainly to cut down on the effort of spending for one month. For a lot of people and towards CCP, it is a legitimate feature and it is a shame to see it get removed. It has made for a great thing in an MMO to keep training/skilling for the one item or ship to use when you come back from a long leave of absence for RL crap. To me, it helped me a lot when I needed a break from EVE from being burned out from some alliances in the past. As much as having to pay every month just to skill, it makes no difference as to CCP, it's always about the money and it is a business just like Blizzard, THQ, NCSoft, and hell, even that one company that made Hello Kitty Online. Anyhow, there are no tears from me and I don't give away my stuff for free. People that ask for it will get nothing. Whatever I earned from start to finish will all go along with me, and never given away to others. |
Kampfkrampf
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Posted - 2008.10.15 13:31:00 -
[3493]
Edited by: Kampfkrampf on 15/10/2008 13:34:59 Edited by: Kampfkrampf on 15/10/2008 13:33:23 so first you stop to sell 30d/90d/etc. gtc's and start selling 60d gtc's (that are more expensive than 2x30d) so we can't realy handle when the abbonement is ending (not as good as with more 30d etc.) and now you're killing loads of secondary accounts with stop "ghosttraing" how you call it.
could it be that you maybe - just maybe - don't want player with more than 1 account? if a player got 4 accounts, 1main and 3 alternative-accounts and the most of the time he ghosttrain them but he pays them if the skill would end and you make loads of money with him and now you stop ghosttraining and he STOP paying the 3 alt.-accounts, you're getting less money etc and may lose him at all. are you happy if that happens? you want to earn more money but all in all you will get less...
i hope you're happy with losing costumers and getting less money. and again it's CCP vs EVE-Community. normaly the producer of a game wants to make their game more attractive to other player and want to support the community, fixing bugs but you're realy try to work against us, the community and costumers, the people that "pay" you per paying the time we play this game.
i'm realy interested what will happen with CCP now, the banks in iceland are broken and CCP getting less money because many secondary accounts won't get payed anymore.
i'ld like to ad that this was a feature and now you say that you never wanted it like this so first you "promise" things like this in the playerguide and everywhere else and now you say you never wanted it to be like this. this is awful |
FTSE
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 13:32:00 -
[3494]
Maybe they could do like some other games do while inactive you gain a +to your exp/skill training , your skills will train faster for a while when you come back to game. limited of course say for one week only. |
Skogen Gump
Jericho Fraction
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Posted - 2008.10.15 13:32:00 -
[3495]
Originally by: SZ Rota
Stuff
Sorry your analogy to a car with 2 wheels doesn't work.
You're saying this because other MMOs let you level up different characters on the same account, which EVE doesn't let you do - so If I read your post correctly you're saying its fine to have other accounts which you don't pay for as they get around the 1 character training mechanic ? (which btw sounds like you're trying to work around something that the Devs don't want you to do, or exploit the game ...)
But back to the comparison, do those other MMOs let you play those characters that you've skilled on one account, at the same time ? I'll bet they don't and I know for a fact they don't in most of the popular MMOs at the moment, Wow, WAR, Lotro. EVE does, so you should pay for them to level. |
IR Scoutar
Caldari State War Academy
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Posted - 2008.10.15 13:33:00 -
[3496]
Originally by: Zinnn .......they'd prefer to get the GOOD macaroni and cheese, with expensive ketchup.
this is the real issue here! u eat mac & cheese with ketchup !?!?!?!?!?!?
no but seriously for me its still that in your face over and over lieing thing
the "ghost training" disabling i can live with after all i got battlecruiser 5 and battleship 5 (all trained in burn out periods that usualy lasted 2 months+) i also have an alt that is trained up to what its supposed to do so for me its simply consolidate accounts (or let 1 run out ... depends if i sick of building or pewpew first lol ) and once i get burnout syndrome again perhaps not come back because thers some other game with internet spaceships that delivers who knows whats gona happen
as for their choice of removing "ghost training" yeah i think thats a bad bussiness choice for a TON of reasons but hey if they want to shoot themselves in the foot with a howitzer (minmatar edition with volkswagens) i say let em maybe their subscription statistics in the coming months will explain it to them why lieing is bad if thers a minimal fluctuation i say good on you ccp!
simple realy
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Virgo I'Platonicus
Ex Eventus Corpi
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Posted - 2008.10.15 13:35:00 -
[3497]
Originally by: Skogen Gump
Sorry your analogy to a car with 2 wheels doesn't work.
You're saying this because other MMOs let you level up different characters on the same account, which EVE doesn't let you do - so If I read your post correctly you're saying its fine to have other accounts which you don't pay for as they get around the 1 character training mechanic ? (which btw sounds like you're trying to work around something that the Devs don't want you to do, or exploit the game ...)
But back to the comparison, do those other MMOs let you play those characters that you've skilled on one account, at the same time ? I'll bet they don't and I know for a fact they don't in most of the popular MMOs at the moment, Wow, WAR, Lotro. EVE does, so you should pay for them to level.
Hope I misunderstood you. You're saying at the end that you can play 1 EVE account with 2 clients and 2 characters simultanously. Eve does not allow that.
V. |
Skogen Gump
Jericho Fraction
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Posted - 2008.10.15 13:40:00 -
[3498]
Originally by: Virgo I'Platonicus
Hope I misunderstood you. You're saying at the end that you can play 1 EVE account with 2 clients and 2 characters simultanously. Eve does not allow that.
V.
Indeed, I was saying that whilst other MMOs let you level multiple toons on one account, EVE doesn't but you can dual box with multiple accounts, so the difference isn't comparable to other MMOs or this 'industry standard' that he quoted. |
Avalon Champion
Gallente Defence Evaluation Research Agency
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Posted - 2008.10.15 13:41:00 -
[3499]
The Timing of the statement could have been better, especialy with most of the icelandic bank accounts being frozen, and there could have been a bit of spin put on it.
I'm sure the user community wouldnt have reacted as badly if the press release stated that accounts will train at full rate for the first 2 weeks of inactivity after which there will be a reduction of 50% on SP training value, followed by another drop to 25% after a further 4 weeks, finally after 3 months training stops altogther.
I also agree with some of the posters saying that RP accumulation should also be suspended on inactive accounts, though market transactions expire after 90 days anyway, so thats a moot point.
Sometimes there are genuine reasons why people leave accounts training in an inactive mode, such as being sent to work abroad for 3-6 months, and so dont have access to an internet connection (aid workers in africa) not to mention members of the services who often get posted to combat zones for 6 months and dont have the time to play, as well as many other reasons.
Personally this doesnt affect me as i only run two accounts, though i do know people that would be affect and it will hurt them as they are students and play using GTC's when they have the cash to spare, and dont get left behind.
All those saying 'im cancelling all my accounts' fantastic news as it should help with the lag issues we've seen .
Just contract all your stuff to EVE Uni or trash it. |
Rafus
Dawn of Fire
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Posted - 2008.10.15 13:41:00 -
[3500]
Originally by: Jac Straw lol, I can't believe people are complaing about a company a) Increasing prices, b) stop giving things away for nothing.
The Real World is in a crisis finacially. Every company is strugling to make money with the increase of costs. People are reducing their spending. Companys have to change their business model to match the economics of the system. So yes maybe CCP are doing this to raise more money or to cut overheads in some way. Either way companys adapt or fail and are never seen again.
We got something for free, and I guess those (including me) who have alt accounts like to slip them inactive but make sure a long skill is training when we need extra cash in our hands. This is CCP's way of the same thing, we need extra cash, remove a feature to force people to pay, or cut overheads and allow these accounts to die.
Yes its sh*ty, yes the customers are to suffer, but I wouldn't like to see a company fail just to please its customers.
That isnt so much a problem as the way they went about doing it. Giving two days notice and outright LYING about it being a bug and not a feature is unacceptable. If they had simply told the TRUTH as to why they were doing it ie "where not making enough money so we have to remove this feature" There would not be nearly as much outrage. For years CCP has even advertised this "bug" as a redeeming FEATURE of eve. If CCP lies so blatantly to its customer base, how do we know what else CCP has lied about? If they are so easily morally able to lie how do we know what else are they capable of? Why should we trust a company like that with our credit card information? For all we know they may buy a bunch of hookers and blow then LIE about how "hackers" stole our credit card information and laugh at us all the way to the bank. |
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Virgo I'Platonicus
Ex Eventus Corpi
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Posted - 2008.10.15 13:44:00 -
[3501]
Originally by: Skogen Gump
Indeed, I was saying that whilst other MMOs let you level multiple toons on one account, EVE doesn't but you can dual box with multiple accounts, so the difference isn't comparable to other MMOs or this 'industry standard' that he quoted.
As far as I'm aware you can use multiple accoutns in other MMOs as well. There's no automative skilling system, but it's not forbidden or unallowed to buy and tend to anr/ or play on more than 1 account. Imo, it's even encouraged as more money makes the owning MMO company happier.
V. |
Ranger 1
Amarr Shiva Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 13:49:00 -
[3502]
Sorry, not going to read 115 pages of crap posts.
You pay a fee to have an account and train one character on that account at a time.
If you don't pay the fee, you don't train.
Pretty basic.
No, it wasn't wise to let this situation go on for so long... especially to even point it out in the player guide... but everyone knew that it really wasn't an intended aspect of skill training. Just like other unintended features, when its abuse got out of hand it got fixed. If you claim you didn't think you were getting away with something when doing it you are lying to yourself.
This situation was allowing some of you to pay for 1 account while actually developing several accounts. That is not fair to the person who played it straight and only trains the accounts they keep active. And it was definitely bad business for CCP.
It always stings when someone cracks your knuckles with a ruler for misbehaving, we all like to think we are just a little more clever than the next guy, but CCP is entirely justified in correcting this issue. It simply means you are going to have to make those hard decisions on which characters you are going to devote training time to... just like the majority of the player base has always done.
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Irridius Starfire
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Posted - 2008.10.15 13:49:00 -
[3503]
I'm not going to bother restating the ways in which your ghost training nerf was so pathetically handled. FWIW, I didn't even know about ghost training a couple of days ago.
I've just cancelled 2 subs because I cannot trust anything you say and in a long term MMOG trust in the developer is absolutely vital. Why would anyone bother trying to progress their characters if the whole thing might be nerf or removed tomorrow?
I was late to the story of the t20 debacle. That was supposed to never happen again because of the wonder that is the CSM. Well, I just checked the CSM minutes page. There's been 4 meetings since may, the last one being in June. Considering I haven't seen the CSM in this discussion, they're MIA.
I may be wrong but as I understand it the CSM is supposed to liase between CCP and the players and in this way keep a kind of check-and-balance on the devs abusing their power. That is, whether they can or can't do anything directly the CSM should be important in reducing dev corruption. This isn't at all the same, but the effect is similar. Players were angry at CCP and didn't feel they could trust them. So in the end CCP brought in the CSM because it would restore player trust.
Well CCP has just quite dramatically lied to everyone, then covered it, lied again, then hid the thread. Now, since there's no CSM (or they're useless) we're in the same place as when the whole t20 stuff happened. Right now devs are probably handing their corpmates BPOs or rare modules. I know I don't trust them. At the same time marketing and management try to milk more money while lying and using Apple tactics.
Nice way of convincing me to trust you CCP.
(For those playing the thread's drinking game: "I quit!" Now drink!) |
Caiman Graystock
Comrades in Construction Anarchy.
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Posted - 2008.10.15 13:52:00 -
[3504]
Just what did CCP expect to gain from this move? Is this just some stubborn resolve now? All CCP has done is instill anger in the community at an enormous level. I fail to see ANY positive coming from this, even if there was a complete 180. Sad. |
Dianeces
The Illuminati. Pandemic Legion
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 13:55:00 -
[3505]
Edited by: Dianeces on 15/10/2008 13:55:48
Originally by: CCP t0rfifrans The bug that became a feature
On Monday, we released news that we are disabling äGhost Trainingô, the ability to train characters on inactive accounts. This resulted in strong reactions from the community as many people were routinely making use of it. We explained the matter in more detail and pointed out that this had been a bug in the original game code. Those of us who were involved in the process of making the decision and communicating it to the community did not realize this bug had been so accepted as a feature that it was listed as such in our own documentation on our own website.
How can we not know whatæs in our own documentation? Well, to be frank, it was a case of insufficient communication on our part between various teams û a regrettable mistake and hard lesson to learn at the expense of the trust youæve placed in us. Thereæs no way to spin it and we wonæt add insult to injury by trying to do so. It was a mistake on our part and for that we sincerely and humbly apologize.
Many would hope that in light of this we will decide not to cancel ghost training and keep it active as an option but weære cannot to do that. EVE is already one-of-a-kind in allowing players to progress their characters through offline skill training. We stand by our policy that if you want your character to progress in EVE, you should pay the subscription fee. The fact that so many people have been able to do so for several years was our own oversight. We know this change, and our misstep in telling you about it, has created some discontent and we hope that over time we can prove our committment to make EVE better than ever for you will be evident as you enjoy the fruits of our labor.
Torfi
CCP: "It's a bug." Players: "It's been documented in the Player Guide for five years." CCP: "That was a miscommunication." Players: "You tried to get rid of it before, but backed off because of the community outrage." CCP: "......It's a bug?"
Honestly, there are really only two conclusions I can draw from this whole thing: a.) y'all are lying your asses off trying to Please visit your user settings to re-enable images. b.) you are the most incompetent game developers I have ever dealt with, by touting a "bug" as a game feature for five years.
Oh, I think I forgot to mention: This is a bug. |
Gara Al'Malik
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Posted - 2008.10.15 13:56:00 -
[3506]
Originally by: Caiman Graystock Just what did CCP expect to gain from this move? Is this just some stubborn resolve now? All CCP has done is instill anger in the community at an enormous level. I fail to see ANY positive coming from this, even if there was a complete 180. Sad.
Well you know, not all of us are sad to see ghost training gone as you will see if you read some of the posts in this thread. It was broken and EVE is better without it. CCP announced the change in a bad way, but still the change is for the better. |
Mhaerdirne Solveig
Minmatar
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 13:57:00 -
[3507]
Originally by: Gartel Reiman Seems entirely reasonable to me - if you're not keeping the account's subs up to date, your character is kept waiting as it was at expiry until you reactivate the account. Especially as it's possibly to play for $/Ç0 thanks to officially sanctioned GTCs-for-ISK, I can't see how this is considered unreasonable at all.
It isn't possible to play for free- someone had to buy the GTC. |
2mths
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 13:59:00 -
[3508]
Just want to add my voice to those saying this is a(nother) turn for the worse and will probably be the nail in the coffin for me.
Sure I ghost trained. I'd sub one month and maybe play during it then leave a level V running for a month and the repeat.
Why did I ghost train? It was that and pay CCP some sub's or none at all. I can't affect the rate at which I progress and once you get to a certain level it's painfully slow to do anything new. I'm bored of doing the same missions over and over and whilst I like mining it doesn't pay very well and doesn't really get you anywhere.
I'm sorry that I haven't read 115 pages of other comments and suggestions (so this has probably already been suggested) Why not introduce a training only subscription (say 1 hours game play per month just to allow for skill changes) at a reduced rate? CCP get some $$$ and I don't feel like I'm paying for nothing when I want to progress my character but see no point in actively playing.
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Ghostess
United Mining Corporation
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Posted - 2008.10.15 14:01:00 -
[3509]
Originally by: Ranger 1
No, it wasn't wise to let this situation go on for so long... especially to even point it out in the player guide... but everyone knew that it really wasn't an intended aspect of skill training. Just like other unintended features, when its abuse got out of hand it got fixed. If you claim you didn't think you were getting away with something when doing it you are lying to yourself.
[...]
Why the hell should I believe something that is in the bloody OFFICIAL game guide is a bug? |
Noralis
Warped Mining
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Posted - 2008.10.15 14:04:00 -
[3510]
I donÆt get involved in posting on this forum very much (maybe a dozen posts over the past 3 years), and I donÆt expect this to be read (least of all by CCP), but will make me feel better.
Since I joined 3 years ago, EVE was my first MMO. IÆve tried others, but always found them lacking in that they ôsimply werenÆt EVEö, and cancelled my subscription on them. When the t20 incident occurred, I was upset and thought of leaving then. But decided to stick it out, thinking that CCP had learned their lesson and were sincere about ôgetting it rightö and keeping some level of transparency/honesty with their customers.
However, the events as so succinctly described in THIS POST illustrate (specifically item 7), CCP hasnÆt learned a damn thing. Granted it could be nothing more than a string of bad coincidences, but perception is reality. One thing IÆve found is maturity aside, the EVE player base (read your customers) are an incredibly intelligent group of people (you sort of have to be to remain with this game). This event (specifically how itÆs been handled) shows that you still havenÆt learned that.
Will CCP fold/go out of business over this? Absolutely not. However, they risk that if they continue to show the complete lack of respect for their player base/customers.
I could care less about ghost training as IÆve never done it. However, IÆve just cancelled my 3 accounts that were on 6-month recurring subscriptions, and will let my other 3 accounts (on GTCÆs) expire. IÆll remain in the game until Jan/Mar (when the final accounts expire) then decide whether to subscribe again or leave. I just donÆt think CCP has shown that it was sincere in respecting its players after previous incidents, and deserves my business. Time will tell if they learn from this snafu and change the way they interact with the people that are ultimately paying their salaries.
Fly Safe,
PS û No, you canÆt have my stuff. If I leave for good, it gets donated to my corp. |
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Souine
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Posted - 2008.10.15 14:10:00 -
[3511]
Not even an update as to why This particular thread (coincidence) is not visible unless clicking from the Dev blog link? |
Kev Hunter
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Posted - 2008.10.15 14:13:00 -
[3512]
I have reactivated this account so I can post this.
CCP's decision to disable ghost training is completely and utterly ridiculous.
The #1 reason why I talked up to other people about this game and tried to get them to play is that if they want to take a break they can ghost train, play something else for a while, and then come back even better than before and experience better playability. It was an awesome feature that I enjoyed on my main character since 2005!
I have 3 EVE accounts. I pay CCP to activate them from time to time. I was considering buying a 4th account, so I can have a Combat Pilot, a hauler pilot, a miner pilot, and a mining director. Due to the removal of this feature, I refuse to purchase a 4th account and I will not reactivate the other 2 accounts until the ghost training has been re-enabled.
There is another way around fixing this problem. Alienating an entire customer base by snipping off this feature is not the answer. This is just the beginning of a CCP fail-cascade -- Lose enough player base/income, CCP won't be able to pay for it's overhead/employees, CCP can't maintain a profit ending in this game to cease to exist.
Since CCP is making hand over fist of money as it is, maybe it should better utilize that income and come up with a more reasonable and logical approach to fixing this problem.
My $0.02.
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altholder05
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Posted - 2008.10.15 14:14:00 -
[3513]
Acctualy it killed 1 of the best points for myself to play this game aswell as holding it up for my friends trying to make them join.
cause if i was fed up or just burned out i could leave eve for lets say a month with really long skill.... know i came back and was once happy again cause i could just go on without staring daily at a counter. it ment change and thats whats needed. now its even more onesided than it was before and i am really happy my account runs out soon. |
Space Wanderer
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 14:14:00 -
[3514]
Edited by: Space Wanderer on 15/10/2008 14:16:50 I won't comment on the wisdom of the change as a business move. I don't have CCP's data, and I suppose they did their homework before deciding the change.
I will comment on their way to communicate it, that has been far from optimal, as many people have pointed out.
However the fact that the complaints rose in few hours to 116 pages clearly show that ghost training was widely (ab)used. While the change may hurt the occasional student on low budget, I refuse to believe that so much of the playerbase can't afford to pay for the game. |
Shagginator
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 14:20:00 -
[3515]
epic fail!!!
I spend alot of time playing this game and sometimes dont have the means to get GTCS and now your gonna do this and i been playing this account for 2 years. i will be closing my second account and transfering my primary toon off of it. Cut my skill training i cut your cash flow |
SZ Rota
Caldari Eve University Ivy League
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 14:22:00 -
[3516]
To Skogen Gump:
What I wrote holds up perfectly well.
You and I and the rest of the world, the gaming world, agree that if you want to play multiple characters SIMULTANEOUSLY then you should pay for more than one account.
That is industry standard.
If you open two clients on the same computer, or if you have two computers, then yeah, you need to pay two subscriptions, and sign into two accounts.
ThatÆs NOT what IÆm talking about.
Most players in most mmorpgs have more than one character, which they play one at a time, but which they use for different purposes to explore different aspects of the game.
To duplicate the same level of content and playability in Eve, because Eve is so restricted, stingy, deficient, lacking, in providing for more than one progressing character, a person is forced to subscribe to multiple accounts.
If Eve worked according to industry standards, then more than one character on all accounts could skill up at the same time.
For pvpers, one character might skill up and go join a 0.0 Alliance and go fight in great wars like the one now raging between the GBC and the NC+SE. If youÆve been doing that for three years and youÆre sometimes tired of it and you want a break, then without quitting corp, something youÆre not going to do because youÆve invested so much in that life, instead of that, you go take your second character and you go fly for an hour, or a day, or a week, or a month, in Faction Warfare, or with your casual merc or pirate corp, or you join an Empire war with some casual friends who just donÆt have the time or energy to join you in the end game 0.0 grind shooting at POSs.
In any case.
If Eve worked like the rest of the mmorpg world, people wouldnÆt need multiple accounts to make multiple characters.
Ghost training is just one way to mitigate the cost, the burden, the annoyance, the scam that is EveÆs initial huge cheat of making ONE character progress on an account at a time.
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WaiKin Beldar
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 14:22:00 -
[3517]
Originally by: Space Wanderer Edited by: Space Wanderer on 15/10/2008 14:16:50 ... I refuse to believe that so much of the playerbase can't afford to pay for the game.
You refuse to believe that because you did not take the time for reading 115 pages explaining deep balls what is all this fuss about |
Cyxopyc
The Dead Parrot Shoppe Inc.
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 14:22:00 -
[3518]
This is CCP. We're over 5 years into the games release when they make this change. The original announcement of the change is poorly written, almost like Darth Vader had come to the podium.
Ghost training is a significant part of how many players play EVE. It would have helped to have CCP give several months warning this was coming. The apparent sudden announcement several weeks after another "Power of Two" drive makes it burn just a little more.
Although not necessary it would lighten the impact to have some help added at the same time (or before) ghost training is removed. Notification of account nearing expiration, webpage skill changing and/or a skill queue. I pray for a skill queue, I've lost almost as much training time because I forgot about setting a new skill then I've gained from ghost training. |
Ms O
Amarr K.T.P
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 14:23:00 -
[3519]
I am guessing from all the posts most people are upset or disagree with this whole idea. However wouldn't it be best for CCP to now add a skill queing feature to the game. This is a well overue addition to the game and ccp seem to have avoided it which i could see why if ghost training existed.
Basically my job takes me away for months at a time sometimes and i don't mind paying my subscription still as long as i am benefiting from it. What i have been doing is finding the longest skill i could find on my character and training that however that doesn't allow me to train for specific new roles.
What i propose is CCP add the feature to que skills in game so those who are subscribing benefit while out of game and still stay at the same level of their equally skilled peers when they are unable to play the game this way you probably won't lose as much customers.
people are going to leave game due to RL situations like myself and not return because they have fallen behind in training and won't want to play catch up.
if i subscribe while away i might not have access to a cmoputer therefore can't stop my subscription when i know my skills have completed. If i am away it most likley i will use a work computer or a internet cafe computer where i can't login to start skills to benefit from my subscription.
Skill queing with no ghost training is the way forward and you know it CCP
|
Cyxopyc
The Dead Parrot Shoppe Inc.
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 14:28:00 -
[3520]
see? :) |
|
Pellark
A.W.M Libertas Fidelitas
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 14:29:00 -
[3521]
In all my time playing eve I don't think I have ever seen such a short sighted, ill judged scheme as this.
During that time I have seen so many people when feeling the burn drop out for a month or so only to come back a month or so later rested and relaxed with a brand new level 5 skill to play with that completed while they were away, I've never heard anyone complain about this, it has always been part of eve. It seems to me you are cutting off the head to remove a boil.
Now feeling the burn myself after 2 years of play without a break, I also decided I needed a little time out, so set Cap Ships 5 running the day before my subs were due to run out and set a reminder on my phone to remind me to renew in mid December to resume the game I have played for well over 4 years. Now with this new hair brained policy I have lost the incentive to come back, that arbitrary point off in the future, when the burn has cooled to resume my addiction. I really don't get your reasoning in this one CCP.
As for the avalanche on the database, that is what archives are for, I can't believe that you have every single item from accounts dead for years cramming up the DBs.
need to re-think this one CCP |
Yonaquel
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 14:33:00 -
[3522]
|
Counter Spy
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 14:35:00 -
[3523]
I think this lying will stab back to Vampire MMO. The frustrated players never will be playing again with a CCP game. |
Joe Jardine
Veto. Veto Corp
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 14:38:00 -
[3524]
Bad decision tbh and very badly handeled again!
I can not believe that skill training is having that much effect on the servers but there is one other big issue and that's eve burn out.
I know many players who need a break from eve but because they can set a nice long skill they then have an incentive to come back after a month or two. This was ensuing your paying customers came back and continued to play, i know over 50 players who have taken a break in this way and come back to see what flying the new ship was like. By taking this away you are simply reducing the number of players who will come back to eve after a break. In short you will lose money and you have ****ed off all your customers.... you guys must be trying hard to **** up this much! |
Rinaldo Titano
Caldari Caldari Provisions
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 14:41:00 -
[3525]
next they would say u cant undock, because that was a bug that u was able to undock and do things in space. and because this bug we have lag. so from now u cant undock |
Tervilious
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 14:42:00 -
[3526]
i think you all money grabbing b*%$ú!"$% if you ask me some people run busy lives ccp or dont you understand that playing eve for a living not to mention for free |
Avalon Champion
Gallente Defence Evaluation Research Agency
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 14:45:00 -
[3527]
Originally by: Pellark As for the avalanche on the database, that is what archives are for, I can't believe that you have every single item from accounts dead for years cramming up the DBs.
Totally agree on that point, after 2/3 years on an inactive account the toon should be sent to the biomass reprocessing plant.
If people think its too harsh, send an e-mail to the player on their registered e-mail account stating that if the account isnt reactivated in x months the toon will be sent into the biomass pot for recycling.
Think of the space in the DB that could be freed up if 2-3k toons a year are disposed of.
|
Silvia t'Nias
Paramilitary Skanks
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 14:46:00 -
[3528]
Originally by: Pellark During that time I have seen so many people when feeling the burn drop out for a month or so only to come back a month or so later rested and relaxed with a brand new level 5 skill to play with that completed while they were away...
Actually I remember reading about a study (year ago?) that said people play a MMOG for about 8 months, then become bored and wander away.
Major emphasis is put by big online game companies to develop ways to either keep people going over the 8-month hump, or to at least get them to come back after they've rested off a game for a while.
Guess which category ghost training would fall in? |
Korizan
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 14:48:00 -
[3529]
Edited by: Korizan on 15/10/2008 14:48:42 The only effect this has on me is to make sure my accounts get billed every month. I pay to play so you won't see any changes in my accounts.
This is a by far an all time EPIC thread. IN every other MMO people complain about the grinding and how unfair it is with the power leveling.
In EVE it is unfair because people want to level even when they aren't even paying for the game. Classic
|
Silvia t'Nias
Paramilitary Skanks
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 14:51:00 -
[3530]
Originally by: Korizan In EVE it is unfair because people want to level even when they aren't even paying for the game. Classic [:lol:
Well it's something CCP thaught us to do.
"Look, you can skill even when account is inactive."
"Oh cool, I'll try that."
"Hey now, you're using that feature! We can't have that. It's getting removed."
"wat?" |
|
Grimnir
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 14:54:00 -
[3531]
Originally by: altholder05 Acctualy it killed 1 of the best points for myself to play this game aswell as holding it up for my friends trying to make them join.
You mean the reason where you get the benefits of playing, without paying ?
|
Counter Spy
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 14:55:00 -
[3532]
Originally by: Korizan Edited by: Korizan on 15/10/2008 14:48:42 The only effect this has on me is to make sure my accounts get billed every month. I pay to play so you won't see any changes in my accounts.
This is a by far an all time EPIC thread. IN every other MMO people complain about the grinding and how unfair it is with the power leveling.
In EVE it is unfair because people want to level even when they aren't even paying for the game. Classic
Epic fail! How many MMO hold just one character training on an account ? Just EVE How many MMO need 20 years for max training ? Just EVE How many MMO need 3 months learning for one lvl of skill ? Just EVE
Boring if u cant get anything. But the nothing not make money.
|
Grimnir
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 14:57:00 -
[3533]
Originally by: Tervilious i think you all money grabbing b*%$ú!"$% if you ask me some people run busy lives ccp or dont you understand that playing eve for a living not to mention for free
Why should you get a free ride, if you're too busy to play? Ridiculous argument; you want CCP to let you play the game for free because you don't have enough time to play the game ....
|
Lag
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 15:03:00 -
[3534]
Originally by: Grimnir
Originally by: Tervilious i think you all money grabbing b*%$ú!"$% if you ask me some people run busy lives ccp or dont you understand that playing eve for a living not to mention for free
Why should you get a free ride, if you're too busy to play? Ridiculous argument; you want CCP to let you play the game for free because you don't have enough time to play the game ....
The issue is not people playing the game for free. (You can't). It's having an incentive to come back to Eve after taking a break for whatever reason. |
Ratio Legis
Slacker Industries
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 15:04:00 -
[3535]
Originally by: Grimnir
Originally by: altholder05 Acctualy it killed 1 of the best points for myself to play this game aswell as holding it up for my friends trying to make them join.
You mean the reason where you get the benefits of playing, without paying ?
Last time I checked "playing" required me actually logging in?
The price of the subscription includes the ability to log in and play AND the ability to skill up one character. So far people have had the option of skilling up without playing, now they need to pay the full price of skilling AND playing even if they don't want to do the latter. It seems reasonable and fair to have the option of a discount if you only intend to use a service partially, especially in the case where no special support is required on the part of the service provider. |
qw3l
Great Wildlands Import-Export
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 15:05:00 -
[3536]
Quote: Does that mean that CCP is a greedy money chewing monster that just loves nerfing things? Of course it does.
FYP |
Midas Man
Caldari Dzark Asylum
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 15:05:00 -
[3537]
Edited by: Midas Man on 15/10/2008 15:05:55
Originally by: Ghostess
Why the hell should I believe something that is in the bloody OFFICIAL game guide is a bug?
You shouldn't as with all problems in Eve it was Poor, ignorant, no thought process coding. The Forgot to add a check to stop skill training and other things when an account expire.
Rather than be grown up and admit there school boy error they put it in a guide. What looks better.
Hey were craptastic programmer's and made this mistake. or Hey have you tried this feature only a few of our player base currently use.
Now they have sen a way the pecieve to make money out of it. And so the childishness come out again, rather than admit to there folly of not coding for it in the first place they are now trying to pass it off as a bug.
Grow up, accept and apologies for your mistakes and be open and honest with your customers without that you struggle to keep customers and to find new ones. And without customers whats the point... |
x psy
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 15:09:00 -
[3538]
Edited by: x psy on 15/10/2008 15:15:56 I actually joined EvE because of two things: it is space game and it was being made by a little icelandic company that kept close contact with players.
If you are having economic problems, it's your fault for opening new offices across the atlantic, and make us pay your new game (and i dont care if there are some synergies with eve, its a new game, it's a fact, what's Oveur doing? :P), etc.
It's a shame when a company changes, unilateraly, things that were almost "part of the contract" like ghost training or the GTCs (30 and 90 days).
So it seems you wanna be like any other MMO, if so, keep going. Let us train our other alts in the same account... bah
|
Creepin
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 15:11:00 -
[3539]
Edited by: Creepin on 15/10/2008 15:13:24
Originally by: Ranger 1 Sorry, not going to read 115 pages of crap posts.
You pay a fee to have an account and train one character on that account at a time.
If you don't pay the fee, you don't train.
Pretty basic.
Are you really that intellectually challenged or what?
I'm not paying for "have an account and train one character", I'm paying for a complex service, which includes all the stuff I was promised before deciding if I'm going to pay in the first place. And know what - among this stuff I was promised to gain access to for my money was that, that, that and ghost-training included. Basically CCP now just voluntarely refuses to give me a part of services they are obliged to provide by our contract (subscription). |
Korizan
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 15:11:00 -
[3540]
Originally by: Counter Spy
Originally by: Korizan Edited by: Korizan on 15/10/2008 14:48:42 The only effect this has on me is to make sure my accounts get billed every month. I pay to play so you won't see any changes in my accounts.
This is a by far an all time EPIC thread. IN every other MMO people complain about the grinding and how unfair it is with the power leveling.
In EVE it is unfair because people want to level even when they aren't even paying for the game. Classic
Epic fail! How many MMO hold just one character training on an account ? Just EVE Originally by: Korizan All OF THEM, in other MMO's you have to be out in your one character that is currently logged on and actively killing things
How many MMO need 20 years for max training ? Just EVE Originally by: Korizan Doesn't matter nobody will ever see this anyways, and has nothing to do with it
How many MMO need 3 months learning for one lvl of skill ? Just EVE
Originally by: Korizan So if you are playing the game what is the difference if it takes you 10 minutes or 3 months for a skill level Oh and try leveling AA in EVERQUEST the original if you want to talk about hard leveling and time invested.
Boring if u cant get anything. But the nothing not make money.
You want to play the game for nothing. No matter how you rationalize it.
|
|
Grimnir
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 15:14:00 -
[3541]
Originally by: Ratio Legis
Last time I checked "playing" required me actually logging in?
The price of the subscription includes the ability to log in and play AND the ability to skill up one character. So far people have had the option of skilling up without playing, now they need to pay the full price of skilling AND playing even if they don't want to do the latter. It seems reasonable and fair to have the option of a discount if you only intend to use a service partially, especially in the case where no special support is required on the part of the service provider.
Agreed, but I think your in the minority in this thread, you're actually thinking it through. |
James Marshalll
Gallente
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 15:14:00 -
[3542]
Originally by: Grimnir
Originally by: Tervilious i think you all money grabbing b*%$ú!"$% if you ask me some people run busy lives ccp or dont you understand that playing eve for a living not to mention for free
Why should you get a free ride, if you're too busy to play? Ridiculous argument; you want CCP to let you play the game for free because you don't have enough time to play the game ....
Read as:
RABBLE I dONT CARE IF CCp cheaTs AnD LIES!! I TAKE IT UP THE ASS AND LIKE IT!!!
Sorry bud, but this isn't about "removing ghost training", too bad you fanboi's are way to deep up the rear end of CCP to realize that.
Once again for the slow and ******ed:
First it was the GM scandal of using war changing ships which they were not allowed to do. Then it was about them giving T2 BPO's to a certain corp when they didn't earn them. Then it was about GM's who were in the same alliance giving back ships to their corp mates/alliance mates/friends while telling others who were involved in the same engagement "Oh sorry, our logs show no lag so your screwed" all the meanwhile their shiesty ass friends come in to a grid hotdrop all the fighters at once they can and lock the grid. Then it was the banning of the guy who blew the whistle on all of this because they wanted him to shut up. Then the price hike and GTC change. Now this
This was just the final straw for a lot of people... but you keep on paying for your right to be cheated. |
supr3m3justic3
Caldari Hakata Group
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 15:16:00 -
[3543]
wow, just chiming in on the 117th page....good job CCP. |
Siona Windweaver
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 15:16:00 -
[3544]
Edited by: Siona Windweaver on 15/10/2008 15:16:36 Have they implemented it yet? Can't see any news. |
Traidor Disloyal
Maximum Yarrage
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 15:17:00 -
[3545]
Originally by: Lag The issue is not people playing the game for free. (You can't). It's having an incentive to come back to Eve after taking a break for whatever reason.
Less people playing the game then we have less lag. And I don't mean you. |
Vietone
Gallente The Scope
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 15:18:00 -
[3546]
Originally by: Silvia t'Nias
Originally by: Korizan In EVE it is unfair because people want to level even when they aren't even paying for the game. Classic [:lol:
Well it's something CCP thaught us to do.
"Look, you can skill even when account is inactive."
"Oh cool, I'll try that."
"Hey now, you're using that feature! We can't have that. It's getting removed."
"wat?"
Not even, the fact that its listed in one place thats not obvious is hardly something they taught you to do.
If you go and cancel your subscription, did it say your skills will continue to train? NO If you browsed the forums did people talk about it regularly? NO Did CCP advertise it as a feature when they put ads on websites? NO Did they include it in any of their Skill Training tutorials? NO
This thread alone is bigger than all previous ghost training threads combined as far as the forum database goes. Therefore, its a fact that a minority of people even knew about it. Will they lose some subscribers? Probably, but not much.
AS I said before, its unfair to subscribers that people who dont pay still skill train. In the end, the only solution is to enable ghost training but at a significantly reduced rate. 10% training rate. Make skills take 10x longer to train while accounts are not subscribed. Thats the only fair solution, no more than 10%. That way, if people decide to leave an account inactive, maybe the people who do subscribe will have a chance of gaining on SP. |
ATARI BABY
Lords Of Guile
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 15:18:00 -
[3547]
Edited by: ATARI BABY on 15/10/2008 15:18:51
Originally by: James Marshalll
Originally by: Grimnir
Originally by: Tervilious i think you all money grabbing b*%$ú!"$% if you ask me some people run busy lives ccp or dont you understand that playing eve for a living not to mention for free
Why should you get a free ride, if you're too busy to play? Ridiculous argument; you want CCP to let you play the game for free because you don't have enough time to play the game ....
Read as:
RABBLE I dONT CARE IF CCp cheaTs AnD LIES!! I TAKE IT UP THE ASS AND LIKE IT!!!
Sorry bud, but this isn't about "removing ghost training", too bad you fanboi's are way to deep up the rear end of CCP to realize that.
Once again for the slow and ******ed:
First it was the GM scandal of using war changing ships which they were not allowed to do. Then it was about them giving T2 BPO's to a certain corp when they didn't earn them. Then it was about GM's who were in the same alliance giving back ships to their corp mates/alliance mates/friends while telling others who were involved in the same engagement "Oh sorry, our logs show no lag so your screwed" all the meanwhile their shiesty ass friends come in to a grid hotdrop all the fighters at once they can and lock the grid. Then it was the banning of the guy who blew the whistle on all of this because they wanted him to shut up. Then the price hike and GTC change. Now this
This was just the final straw for a lot of people... but you keep on paying for your right to be cheated.
well said bro. |
James Marshalll
Gallente
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 15:20:00 -
[3548]
Originally by: Korizan
Originally by: Counter Spy
Originally by: Korizan Edited by: Korizan on 15/10/2008 14:48:42 The only effect this has on me is to make sure my accounts get billed every month. I pay to play so you won't see any changes in my accounts.
This is a by far an all time EPIC thread. IN every other MMO people complain about the grinding and how unfair it is with the power leveling.
In EVE it is unfair because people want to level even when they aren't even paying for the game. Classic
Epic fail! How many MMO hold just one character training on an account ? Just EVE Originally by: Korizan All OF THEM, in other MMO's you have to be out in your one character that is currently logged on and actively killing things
How many MMO need 20 years for max training ? Just EVE Originally by: Korizan Doesn't matter nobody will ever see this anyways, and has nothing to do with it
How many MMO need 3 months learning for one lvl of skill ? Just EVE
Originally by: Korizan So if you are playing the game what is the difference if it takes you 10 minutes or 3 months for a skill level Oh and try leveling AA in EVERQUEST the original if you want to talk about hard leveling and time invested.
Boring if u cant get anything. But the nothing not make money.
You want to play the game for nothing. No matter how you rationalize it.
you my friend are a joke.
Look at what he said. You don't "play" the game for free when you use ghost training. Am I earning money? no. ( Although some are taking advantage of this)
am I mining? Causing lag(the database issue is bullshit, and if you arent a DBA or have experience with why that excuse is BS then shut your pie-hole), am I fighting? Buying things? no.
think about it real hard, I know its hard.. but think for a minute. I pay 15 a month for warhammer. Sure I can't actively level both at one time, thats correct, but what I can do is get to the "end game" pvp within a month on multiple characters, in eve its going to take you at least a year after you learn training, ship skills just to be semi viable in a smaller ship.
You want to get two toons to a decent isk making level? Sorry you gotta pay 34 a month! 3? Another 17! one more? Thats right!!! ANOTHER 17! So SUUUUURRRREEEE you can't level 2 toons at once on the same account in other mmo's, but the TIME INVESTED is WAY different for the price. |
Velda Chulai
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 15:22:00 -
[3549]
Edited by: Velda Chulai on 15/10/2008 15:23:31
Originally by: Grimnir
Originally by: Tervilious i think you all money grabbing b*%$ú!"$% if you ask me some people run busy lives ccp or dont you understand that playing eve for a living not to mention for free
Why should you get a free ride, if you're too busy to play? Ridiculous argument; you want CCP to let you play the game for free because you don't have enough time to play the game ....
We appreciated the incentive we had to return.
I had an auto-renewing account which I switched to following the initial time code fiasco. Since this announcement, I've canceled. In two months my skills with cease training and I, like many others, will be gone.
That includes my alt because, frankly, I'm tired of dealing with a company who has a history of being dishonest with the community. I'm not even certain that back-peddling on this decision will be enough anymore. I'm waiting on Jumpgate: Evolution to hopefully accept me into the beta.
Eve was the first of its kind. It won't be the last. Hopefully the next company won't try to win our compassion over with lines "We made the game so we could all enjoy it so please don't unsubscribe!". Here's a plan for CCP: Why don't you take a last look into your immense aquarium and justify those expenses to your shareholders when your balance sheet takes a bite out of your face? |
Parasite S
Perkone
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 15:23:00 -
[3550]
Originally by: Korizan
Originally by: Counter Spy
Originally by: Korizan Edited by: Korizan on 15/10/2008 14:48:42 The only effect this has on me is to make sure my accounts get billed every month. I pay to play so you won't see any changes in my accounts.
This is a by far an all time EPIC thread. IN every other MMO people complain about the grinding and how unfair it is with the power leveling.
In EVE it is unfair because people want to level even when they aren't even paying for the game. Classic
Epic fail! How many MMO hold just one character training on an account ? Just EVE Originally by: Korizan All OF THEM, in other MMO's you have to be out in your one character that is currently logged on and actively killing things
How many MMO need 20 years for max training ? Just EVE Originally by: Korizan Doesn't matter nobody will ever see this anyways, and has nothing to do with it
How many MMO need 3 months learning for one lvl of skill ? Just EVE
Originally by: Korizan So if you are playing the game what is the difference if it takes you 10 minutes or 3 months for a skill level Oh and try leveling AA in EVERQUEST the original if you want to talk about hard leveling and time invested.
Boring if u cant get anything. But the nothing not make money.
You want to play the game for nothing. No matter how you rationalize it.
1. maybe but unlike eve those dont have drawbacks since you can invest more time in the char you didnt used for a while. in eve you can continuesly only train 1 which means drawback for any other char on the same account you cant come up for with more time investment.
2. forword for 3...
3. You forget that this is a SET value. you can only modify it a lil with learning skills / implants not more. therefore the player influence on this is heavy limited. this DONT works for other mmorpgs since that is just up to you. here we see the edges of the so called sandbox.
and no we dont want to play the game for nothing but EvE gave the REALLY UNIQUE ability to advance your char even when you just dont feel like playing it. You could with a clean thought stay back for a while enjoy something else etc not worrying about anything. Not to mention that troubless with payment wont cause you massively fallback since your skill trained and you might couldnt play but didnt worry a sec about lost time *unlike by unadvertised extended downtimes....* |
|
Fenrill Nerkata
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 15:25:00 -
[3551]
And what about restrict ghost training to 1 month a year ? |
Yeknom Nam
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 15:26:00 -
[3552]
Originally by: Jac Straw lol, I can't believe people are complaing about a company a) Increasing prices, b) stop giving things away for nothing.
...
Yes its sh*ty, yes the customers are to suffer, but I wouldn't like to see a company fail just to please its customers.
Companies that don't please there customers... FAIL. I hope you understand that. It's how business works. If you don't have pleased/satisfied customers, you no longer have those customers. |
Grimnir
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 15:29:00 -
[3553]
Originally by: James Marshalll
Originally by: Grimnir
Originally by: Tervilious i think you all money grabbing b*%$ú!"$% if you ask me some people run busy lives ccp or dont you understand that playing eve for a living not to mention for free
Why should you get a free ride, if you're too busy to play? Ridiculous argument; you want CCP to let you play the game for free because you don't have enough time to play the game ....
Read as:
RABBLE I dONT CARE IF CCp cheaTs AnD LIES!! I TAKE IT UP THE ASS AND LIKE IT!!!
Sorry bud, but this isn't about "removing ghost training", too bad you fanboi's are way to deep up the rear end of CCP to realize that.
Once again for the slow and ******ed:
First it was the GM scandal of using war changing ships which they were not allowed to do. Then it was about them giving T2 BPO's to a certain corp when they didn't earn them. Then it was about GM's who were in the same alliance giving back ships to their corp mates/alliance mates/friends while telling others who were involved in the same engagement "Oh sorry, our logs show no lag so your screwed" all the meanwhile their shiesty ass friends come in to a grid hotdrop all the fighters at once they can and lock the grid. Then it was the banning of the guy who blew the whistle on all of this because they wanted him to shut up. Then the price hike and GTC change. Now this
This was just the final straw for a lot of people... but you keep on paying for your right to be cheated.
Just because there is a history of gripes; they are not all related and should be judged on their invidivual 'merits'. Yeah, CCP haven't done a great job of announcing this change but its got nothing to do with the Bobgate scandals.
But I see it now, ad hominem. CCP has done bad things, so this must be a bad thing
Look, to use an analogy, if you stopped paying for your lvl68 warrior in wow for a month, would you expect to come back and find that you could use a epic flying mount ? No, plain and simple. And it wouldn't be fair to anyone who spent the time grinding, if you could.
It's the same thing here in Eve, but some of you are so caught up in this "CCP did some bad things so they can never be able to do a good thing" that you're being unreasonable about something that makes perfect sense.
|
10of10
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 15:29:00 -
[3554]
This is truly Epic to say the least for a game to tell its player base Fu** yourself, we win by default its our game. 117 pages and here is a news flash THEY ARE NOT LISTENING. |
Occso
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 15:29:00 -
[3555]
Make your statement at: vote |
Kev Hunter
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 15:30:00 -
[3556]
Originally by: Yeknom Nam
Originally by: Jac Straw lol, I can't believe people are complaing about a company a) Increasing prices, b) stop giving things away for nothing.
...
Yes its sh*ty, yes the customers are to suffer, but I wouldn't like to see a company fail just to please its customers.
Companies that don't please there customers... FAIL. I hope you understand that. It's how business works. If you don't have pleased/satisfied customers, you no longer have those customers.
The only time when this doesn't fail if it's the regional US Telco/High Speed ISP where the customer doesn't have a choice when they shaft their customers with less features and increased prices.
Unfortunately for CCP, EVE isn't the only MMORPG choice out there, so to further Yeknom Nam's point, EVE would be shooting itself in the foot by upsetting customers by removing features.
I might be considering Star Trek Online...
|
LockeLamora
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 15:30:00 -
[3557]
Ive just read the last 117 pages, and i concurr. Its a sheet of bull. |
Midas Man
Caldari Dzark Asylum
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 15:32:00 -
[3558]
For all the Moron jumping on the play for free wagon....
Why haven't you got multiple 100+ page threads about how unfair it is for people to gain
1) RP while unsubscribed - These can be farmed in vast quantities by unsubscribed accounts and is having a detrimental effect on the Datacore/Invention market
2) My buy/sell order can last for 90 Days unsubscribed. Hell i could get a free trial set up 50+ orders and wait 90 days for them to expire/fill before giving a cent of money to CCP. With 50 free orders any Trader/industrial could make billions therefore it is worth the 400-500 mil for 1 GTC to activate it and collect the fruit of you unsubscribed labour.
3) you can get 30 days research across 11 lines for free if you set jobs up b4 your sub ends.
That 3 Game breaking/unbalancing things that are causing much bigger effect on the industry/market of Eve than Dark Training ever has or will.
Character farmer who are the ones I assume CCP are pointing to when they are talking about abusing the system, but this actually helps the new player experiance- 2 months of learning or a couple of GTC for ISK. And makes ccp a nice ú20 or so for the transfer. |
Passing Time
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 15:33:00 -
[3559]
I did one post in original (outrage) thread, I'll do one more here. Few things I want to say. 1. Is ghost training free? NO, you have to pay to (be able to) start training, and you have to pay to have use from ghost trained skill. Ghost training allows for a somewhat cheaper advancement of skill points, as you can pay for 4 months and adance your skill points by 4 months plus overtime of ghost trained skill. Ghost training allows bored, tired or busy player to get out of game and also be done with training of too long skill. In return the server is freed of input of hybernating player and thus lag is reduced. It really was a win-win situation. 2. Balance disturbed, unfair to players who work on their characters? Thats silly, since a)everyone could use that feature/bug, and b)those who play the game were obviously able to advance their characters by much more then just skill points. What I think is really unfair to those who "actively put their time and energy into working on their characters" is that someone can buy a developed character. Thus I feel that this change is unfairly hurting the balance in favour of a)veteran players, who used ghost training for years, and b)rich (and bad) players, who have no need for ghost training as they can pay for a fully developed character. 3. I'm new to Eve, but since i started using trial, I wasted no time to advance the skill points of my character. I used ghost training twice, and I payed twice. My account expires in a month and I was planning to ghost train a long skill, and return when it finishes. With no ghost training, after it expires, I'm going to return much later then I would have, if I return at all. This change has greatly reduced long term playability of this game for any new player who wishes to build his character from start. If you wanted to make money like Blizzard, you should have learned that you never compromise the quality of your product - the game. I'm very disappointed. I hope you lose a lot of money because of this fast and return ghost training. But, no hard feelings, it's not the end of the world, do as you wish and if I don't like it, I'll just go play something else. |
10of10
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 15:35:00 -
[3560]
Originally by: Occso Make your statement at: vote
Dont let ccp trick you into going to another thread in order to stop this one. Vote here... They locked the others or deleted them and here they go again trying to pull us away from this one. |
|
Sonam Gyatso
Republic Military School
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 15:35:00 -
[3561]
Originally by: Counter Spy
Originally by: Korizan Edited by: Korizan on 15/10/2008 14:48:42 The only effect this has on me is to make sure my accounts get billed every month. I pay to play so you won't see any changes in my accounts.
This is a by far an all time EPIC thread. IN every other MMO people complain about the grinding and how unfair it is with the power leveling.
In EVE it is unfair because people want to level even when they aren't even paying for the game. Classic
Epic fail! How many MMO hold just one character training on an account ? Just EVE How many MMO need 20 years for max training ? Just EVE How many MMO need 3 months learning for one lvl of skill ? Just EVE
Boring if u cant get anything. But the nothing not make money.
How many MMO are better than EVE? Answer is subjective but if it's > 0 (in the long run at least) then take your pick.
This alt flood was really getting on my (rp) nerves, not to mention the cyno/xxx-alt breeding business. You want to play in 0.0, play as intended (i.e. multiplayer). Be able to fund what you fly and then take your epeen out. Can't do that? Pay for a second account. Want to control a 5-man gang by yourself? Play Baldur's gate and with the time left discover there's a world out there.
On a side note, it's obvious this is a ghost fix for lag |
Kev Hunter
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 15:36:00 -
[3562]
Originally by: Grimnir
Just because there is a history of gripes; they are not all related and should be judged on their invidivual 'merits'. Yeah, CCP haven't done a great job of announcing this change but its got nothing to do with the Bobgate scandals.
But I see it now, ad hominem. CCP has done bad things, so this must be a bad thing
It's called CCP's track record of doing bad and unfair things to it's playerbase. That's the point he was stressing. This is just another brick in the wall.
Originally by: Grimnir
Look, to use an analogy, if you stopped paying for your lvl68 warrior in wow for a month, would you expect to come back and find that you could use a epic flying mount ? No, plain and simple. And it wouldn't be fair to anyone who spent the time grinding, if you could.
The game you're talking about is WoW. WoW doesn't have time based training. You actively play it. Use an example of an MMO where they used time based training instead of constant use based. Otherwise your point is irrelevant.
Originally by: Grimnir
It's the same thing here in Eve, but some of you are so caught up in this "CCP did some bad things so they can never be able to do a good thing" that you're being unreasonable about something that makes perfect sense.
See my previous replies to your quotes. It is not the same. It's just another bad decision on CCP's part. And this one just might be the straw that breaks the camel's back. He's not being unreasonable, you're just clueless.
|
Cougem
Shadow Company
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 15:37:00 -
[3563]
Edited by: Cougem on 15/10/2008 15:37:07 Just a bit insulting frankly. I've been a subscriber for years, but sometimes I have to stop for a few months when I go away on work. CCP are doing this so I have to pay to get skills when I can't play. The company I have given hundreds and hundreds of pounds to wont even admit that. Complete bas*****. |
Velda Chulai
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 15:38:00 -
[3564]
You know, it's funny because I'm sure it was assumed that the people who switched to monthly subscriptions wouldn't quit so easily.
I hope that the people who said they would, did. Doing otherwise would be an endorsement of this change. |
sycokill
Caldari Funny Men In Funny Hats
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 15:38:00 -
[3565]
I think that CCP made a big mistake implementing the ghost training nerf this way for various reasons:
1.It took them over 5 years to actually 'fix' the 'bug' when it should have been done ages ago, as it would be stupid to think players would not take advantage of it.
2. They barely gave anyone time to react to the sudden change by deploying it in such a short time frame, at least giving some prior notice would be the wise thing to do but i guess it wouldn't be very convenient since they just done the power of two promotion
3. They should have admitted it was a feature that went out of hand and therefore it was ruining their revenue instead of making it out like it was a 'bug' and something that wasn't intended. Being honest would make things so much easier imo.
All of these factors together is what is causing such an outcry, i can understand the reasons behind the change and i think it was silly to not implement it sometime before since people have become accustomed to it. In the end its hard to say whether CCP will benefit from such a change, i'm sure many people who take a break wont bother resubbing ,but those that are rich enough to sustain more than 1 account will fill up some of the gaps. I guess only time will tell.
|
D4RT N3RDiUS
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 15:39:00 -
[3566]
Quote: Less people playing the game then we have less lag. And I don't mean you
is a wrong aseveration becouse for ccpis lees incoming and not rith now but in one near furute if the ppl who are leaving are enougth they dont cant suport their fancy servers becouse they are too xpensive to deal with.. so if ppl leave allways is a bad news for ccp not for you mate you can play till ccp says we are broken and can suport the game..
again this thing was totaly avoidable if ccp was sincere and says one of our mayor investemens was the banck who broke in icelandic so we need more incoming if you chec in the ccp page check de investment areas.. sry but this is the only truth and they cant handle that |
Woofsie
Minmatar White Wolves Syndicate THORN Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 15:41:00 -
[3567]
Originally by: D4RT N3RDiUS
Quote: Less people playing the game then we have less lag. And I don't mean you
is a wrong aseveration becouse for ccpis lees incoming and not rith now but in one near furute if the ppl who are leaving are enougth they dont cant suport their fancy servers becouse they are too xpensive to deal with.. so if ppl leave allways is a bad news for ccp not for you mate you can play till ccp says we are broken and can suport the game..
again this thing was totaly avoidable if ccp was sincere and says one of our mayor investemens was the banck who broke in icelandic so we need more incoming if you chec in the ccp page check de investment areas.. sry but this is the only truth and they cant handle that
Why can't you talk properly? |
Silvia t'Nias
Paramilitary Skanks
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 15:41:00 -
[3568]
Originally by: Vietone Not even, the fact that its listed in one place thats not obvious is hardly something they taught you to do.
Um... What?
The game manual is not an obvious place?
This may come as a shocker to you, but some people actually read game manuals. Especially manuals for online games, because with a slower connection it takes ages to download the client, so there's plenty of time to prepare for the game by, say, reading the manual.
Quote: This thread alone is bigger than all previous ghost training threads combined as far as the forum database goes. Therefore, its a fact that a minority of people even knew about it. Will they lose some subscribers? Probably, but not much.
The forum proves nothing, since only a fraction of players bother to read them. And are you seriously saying that a huge thread of people complaining about the removal of a feature is a sign that they didn't know about the excistence of said feature?
Quote: AS I said before, its unfair to subscribers that people who dont pay still skill train.
As I said before, it's a feature of the game. A major feature, I might add. It's unfair to new players that older players will always be ahead of them in skillpoints, but it's another feature of the game. Whether it's unfair or not is neither here nor there. It's an unfairness knowingly allowed by CCP, whether originally intentional or not. |
Daxit
Caldari Genbuku. Daisho Syndicate
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 15:42:00 -
[3569]
this is sweet as , might signup another account since theres going to be less lag with all you guys quitting |
Midas Man
Caldari Dzark Asylum
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 15:44:00 -
[3570]
Originally by: Daxit this is sweet as , might signup another account since theres going to be less lag with all you guys quitting
Yep best get on it
Fighting yourself has got to be better than fighting noone
Have fun |
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Tachoh
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 15:46:00 -
[3571]
Who cares about ghost training, a lot of us lost even more trust in CCP as a result of how this was handled.
There is a scandal when there REALLY DID NOT NEED TO BE. |
BaronHarkonnen
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 15:48:00 -
[3572]
Come on CCP, gives a number... how many accounts have been canceled in the last few days. Or even more how many accounts have been canceled in the last 2-3 months?
Something is wrong and no is not the crisis which affects your income, it's just you! :)
|
Grimnir
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 15:49:00 -
[3573]
Originally by: Kev Hunter
The game you're talking about is WoW. WoW doesn't have time based training. You actively play it. Use an example of an MMO where they used time based training instead of constant use based. Otherwise your point is irrelevant.
I think the points very relevant; you want CCP to do something for you, without paying for it - I was highlighting the absurdity of that. If I knew another time-based game that I had experience of, I'd have used that.
Originally by: Kev Hunter
See my previous replies to your quotes. It is not the same. It's just another bad decision on CCP's part. And this one just might be the straw that breaks the camel's back. He's not being unreasonable, you're just clueless.
It's clueless to assume that CCP were going to let freeloaders get away with it forever; but if we're going to revert to this level all I can say to you is ... Aww diddums. |
BIind
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 15:49:00 -
[3574]
This thread is still not visible in the Information Portal? Some web team you have going on there. |
Grimnir
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 15:50:00 -
[3575]
Originally by: Tachoh
There is a scandal when there REALLY DID NOT NEED TO BE.
Very much this. |
Korizan
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 15:50:00 -
[3576]
Edited by: Korizan on 15/10/2008 15:52:46 Let try this another way.
How many skills are actually OVER 30 days which is the only way to make ghost training viable.
NOT MANY until you get up to the higher level skills. OH wait I have Capital Ships V for 76 Days (End your not using this character ????) So this isn't going to a hurt a noobie, or even a one or 2 years player. As they can't set a skill for that long.
So what do you use ghost training for ?
Datacores, manufacturing (if that is the case you just threw out the I am making no ISK line) Going to sell the character (again the no isk line goes out)
And lets say you can do it. If you planned it PERFECTLY then that means you would only be paying for you account 6 months out of the year. I doubt many invested that kind of time to plan it that way.
So again what are you doing with you ghost trained character ?
|
Mr Nash
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 15:51:00 -
[3577]
Sup
I started with one account then two now Four accounts.
This game has become like a second Job..
With this Fix I'm Selling my charters on Two Accounts.
With the income from these 4 charters I should beable to pay for a good 6 months of Game play and never have to pay cash again to play this game.
2 billion every 60 or so days even if you ghost trained 30 days at a time.. All Four accounts will come online at once.
Since GTC's are so high I was paying cash for Two accounts now I don't have to and only have to spend half the time to play to produce the same in game income.
My wallet will be alittle fatter and MMmmmmm who's is going to become thinner because of this change.
Good Luck CCP..
I'm Down sizing my game play. Hope you don't have to down size your staffing of your office because of this Bug Fix...
Time's where good but there becoming Tuffer everyday..
Nash
|
Johncrab
Minmatar Typo Corp
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 15:57:00 -
[3578]
Originally by: BIind This thread is still not visible in the Information Portal? Some web team you have going on there.
What they did was, hide thi thread and create a thread that links to this one. That thread was locked after 2 pages. When someone enters information portal they see the thread about ghost training they go - heh only 2 pages, guess no one really cares about the issue, moving on - See how simple it is to divert a lot of people from presenting their protest? |
Dr Fighter
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 16:01:00 -
[3579]
It served one perfectly respectable situation:
If like me, you have played for years and your going on holiday or somthing and your account is due to run out, rathe rthan pay fo rthe game while you cant play you dont have ot miss out on the training.
I have never done this on purpose, but when it did happen it was just 'nice'.
Now if there are peeps with 63254 million SP that are training titan 5 or osmthing and taking a tactical 2 months off to ghost train it, then fair enough i spose - however remeber that its only sp, the one fixed thing in the game thats impossible to speed up other than attributes.
i dont personnely think its game breaking, and in most cases a plesent relief from a company that in all honesty is a bit OTT when it comes to business (like no offering any replacment time for unsheduled DT or replacing lost ships when the logs are 'missing' or whatever).
cant wait till i can afford isk in game to pay both my accounts for free, that'll take alot of the sting out of being another 'customer' paying for a service and not being given the time of day. |
Hypan
Amarr Zebra Corp Chain of Chaos
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 16:01:00 -
[3580]
INTERNAL CCP MEMO
BoB now have all there super cap alts trained, please feel free to remove ghost training at your discresion
BoB
i really do wonder some times |
|
Max Khaos
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 16:04:00 -
[3581]
I can feel the love .....
If your not paying a subscription, then you should get "nothing" from CCP or the game ..... period.
|
C601
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 16:04:00 -
[3582]
What's with all the ****ing whiners ..
Its pay to play, don't like it build your own mmo with ghost training in effect !!!!!
|
Corphus
STK Scientific N.A.S.A
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 16:04:00 -
[3583]
Edited by: Corphus on 15/10/2008 16:15:46 i have 2 opinions on this:
1st: removing this feature is unfair especially towards those who have reallife comittmens to attend from time to time and need to pause eve. it takes the reward for staying true to eve from those who come back on a regular basis even after long breaks.
2nd: removing this feature: -will end character sell farming -will end ppl excesivley playing multiple characters at once(fotm alts on standby anyone?) -will force ppl to determine their way of playing and their main characters(stronger personaization). -will to some extend lead to less blobs as ppl will have less chars available. -will earn or loose ccp a beejebuz load of money. -will scare off immature ppl from eve. -will reduce iskfarming to some extend as training up additional mining alts will cost more. -will reduce the number of ppl willing to train higher ranked skills in their playtime (less capitalship alts)
facit: all in all ccp does a gamble here. it could turn out to be either brilliant or corporate suicide. it will however reduce the number of inactive accounts and reduce the number of ppl with lower budgets making eve even more an upper class game which is harder, costlier and more timeintensive than anything else on the market.
|
Ilda Mrika
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 16:07:00 -
[3584]
Originally by: C601 What's with all the ****ing whiners ..
Its pay to play, don't like it build your own mmo with ghost training in effect !!!!!
The issue is pay to skill up and not pay to play. Post when you understand what subject is in discussion |
Lana Ground
Caldari Galactic Accord State Navy Academy Accord Corporate Enterprise Syndicate
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 16:07:00 -
[3585]
looks like most of the players are going to leave like myself with my 2accounts owell bye then CCP this is a really bad idea by you guys....maybe the players should start a forum petition for ALL the players to keep the ghost training to sign....... |
Simon Barrow
181st Legion
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 16:11:00 -
[3586]
I am not terribly affected by this, never used ghosttraining exclusively, even though it was comforting to know that if my billing plan would fail for some reason that the skill would continue training. Have seen alot of people return because they wanted to change skills and when logging in found something interesting to do and did not leave after the month.
I have however due to the Dev blog by t0rfifranz moved my characters from 4 accounts to 2 accounts, this I did mostly because I started to think (like ccp) about why I was actually running these accounts and giving something to CCP that I was not really needing to do.
so -2 accounts here.
Thank you CCP for making me realise that I was paying you to much. |
Max Khaos
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 16:11:00 -
[3587]
Edited by: Max Khaos on 15/10/2008 16:12:05 You moan and batch about lag etc etc
You throw your teddy bears out of your prams when CCP doesn't do enough to fix a problem.
Wake up .. manpower and hardware cost money which is funded by subscriptions ....
This is not about "I've been on holiday two weeks" and forgot to renew my subscription ... this is about getting something for nothing...
Please all leave today and let the "paying customers" support and enjoy this MMO. |
Kheldon Fel
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 16:12:00 -
[3588]
Originally by: Korizan Edited by: Korizan on 15/10/2008 15:52:46 Let try this another way.
How many skills are actually OVER 30 days which is the only way to make ghost training viable.
NOT MANY until you get up to the higher level skills. OH wait I have Capital Ships V for 76 Days (End your not using this character ????) So this isn't going to a hurt a noobie, or even a one or 2 years player. As they can't set a skill for that long.
So what do you use ghost training for ?
Datacores, manufacturing (if that is the case you just threw out the I am making no ISK line) Going to sell the character (again the no isk line goes out)
And lets say you can do it. If you planned it PERFECTLY then that means you would only be paying for you account 6 months out of the year. I doubt many invested that kind of time to plan it that way.
So again what are you doing with you ghost trained character ?
Quoting stupidity and a shocking lack of knowledge about Eve. |
Parasite S
Perkone
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 16:13:00 -
[3589]
Originally by: Korizan Edited by: Korizan on 15/10/2008 15:52:46 Let try this another way.
How many skills are actually OVER 30 days which is the only way to make ghost training viable.
NOT MANY until you get up to the higher level skills. OH wait I have Capital Ships V for 76 Days (End your not using this character ????) So this isn't going to a hurt a noobie, or even a one or 2 years player. As they can't set a skill for that long.
So what do you use ghost training for ?
Datacores, manufacturing (if that is the case you just threw out the I am making no ISK line) Going to sell the character (again the no isk line goes out)
And lets say you can do it. If you planned it PERFECTLY then that means you would only be paying for you account 6 months out of the year. I doubt many invested that kind of time to plan it that way.
So again what are you doing with you ghost trained character ?
Yeah why hurt the 14 day trials when they pay anyway? correct it wont hurt noobys there... yet. On the other side i can argue that ccp continuesly changes the game *see nanonerf*. and lets say i am training cruiser 5 now for 30day acc just runs out and change is annouced... i cant changed it without reactivation...
datacores require a certain time to be put into it, aswell as the market for those isnt stable *even most expensive ones droppped 100k in like a month easy*. so you can come back in be screwed. selling cost you REAL LIFE currency. So infact you pay ccp afterwards for what you used *or not even since normal user do this aswell...*.
planed it perfectly? like saying... monday morning 3.10am o clock my skilltraining finishes gotta set alarm clock to reactivate it so i dont loose any of my precious time and continue to do so over the 30days? noway tbh...
Most people use that method for their capital alts if they cant afford one. but what a lot people dont get is that this char is also *exspecial by pirates* often used ACTIV as trading / manufacturer / scout -char etc.
What ccp recognizes in numbers are player who are burned out. who dont feel like watching a blackscreen 2 hours. or fighten 4hours over a pos just to get a lil rollback. or even being unable to deffend a system cause jumping in would mean death in ingame currency loss that needs time to recover. people get frustrated promised endgame isnt reached etc.... this people just take a break. that this happens more recently is only showing that something is obviously wrong with the game and all i know is that this is the wrong way to do it.
to the question:
So again what are you doing with you ghost trained character ?
well i am having a warm day here on gran canaria, enjoying my holiday while i know that my char evolves itself and i wont fall back behind my friends as i watch over to some pretty ladys. at least it was like that this summer and it feels good not to grind ones in a while and stil evolve *bit like watching a science channel on tv compared to active bookreading*. |
Dleader
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 16:13:00 -
[3590]
Originally by: Grimnir
Originally by: James Marshalll
Originally by: Grimnir
Originally by: Tervilious i think you all money grabbing b*%$ú!"$% if you ask me some people run busy lives ccp or dont you understand that playing eve for a living not to mention for free
Why should you get a free ride, if you're too busy to play? Ridiculous argument; you want CCP to let you play the game for free because you don't have enough time to play the game ....
Read as:
RABBLE I dONT CARE IF CCp cheaTs AnD LIES!! I TAKE IT UP THE ASS AND LIKE IT!!!
Sorry bud, but this isn't about "removing ghost training", too bad you fanboi's are way to deep up the rear end of CCP to realize that.
Once again for the slow and ******ed:
First it was the GM scandal of using war changing ships which they were not allowed to do. Then it was about them giving T2 BPO's to a certain corp when they didn't earn them. Then it was about GM's who were in the same alliance giving back ships to their corp mates/alliance mates/friends while telling others who were involved in the same engagement "Oh sorry, our logs show no lag so your screwed" all the meanwhile their shiesty ass friends come in to a grid hotdrop all the fighters at once they can and lock the grid. Then it was the banning of the guy who blew the whistle on all of this because they wanted him to shut up. Then the price hike and GTC change. Now this
This was just the final straw for a lot of people... but you keep on paying for your right to be cheated.
Just because there is a history of gripes; they are not all related and should be judged on their invidivual 'merits'. Yeah, CCP haven't done a great job of announcing this change but its got nothing to do with the Bobgate scandals.
But I see it now, ad hominem. CCP has done bad things, so this must be a bad thing
Look, to use an analogy, if you stopped paying for your lvl68 warrior in wow for a month, would you expect to come back and find that you could use a epic flying mount ? No, plain and simple. And it wouldn't be fair to anyone who spent the time grinding, if you could.
It's the same thing here in Eve, but some of you are so caught up in this "CCP did some bad things so they can never be able to do a good thing" that you're being unreasonable about something that makes perfect sense.
hey Grimnir are you a CCP DEV alt since your replying all over for it |
|
10of10
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 16:16:00 -
[3591]
You know you people are not going to leave.... Your addicted like drug addicts and they know it... No way can you click that unsubscribe button....no way. You have invested too much real money to quit....spent too many years playing to quit... like right now you need to get out of this thread and log in to get your FiX..... |
Poreuomai
Minmatar Mirkur Draug'Tyr Ushra'Khan
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 16:16:00 -
[3592]
Edited by: Poreuomai on 15/10/2008 16:22:38
Originally by: Max Khaos If your not paying a subscription, then you should get "nothing" from CCP or the game ..... period.
Agreed ...
... and I agree that inconsistency is not good for customer relations:
Quote: CCP Inconsistency
|
Loc Maythan
Gallente AlfaCorp
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 16:18:00 -
[3593]
Originally by: Ilda Mrika
Originally by: C601 What's with all the ****ing whiners ..
Its pay to play, don't like it build your own mmo with ghost training in effect !!!!!
The issue is pay to skill up and not pay to play. Post when you understand what subject is in discussion
The issue for me is not whether ghost-training exists or not - I've never knowingly used it, I have a single character, I don't care if they remove it.
The issue for me (and many people) is the way that have done it - not going to re-post what I said previously. Suffice to say: short notice, power of 2, GTCs, "it's unintended but let's market it as a feature", "it causes strain on the DB", stealth edit to user guide, no feedback in one of the longest thread on EO.
I'd just like them to 'fess up and say "we're tired of people training without paying, so you've got 3 months before we pull the plug". Honest, and gives people who haven't seen the news or this thread time to do something about it, rather than quitting when they come back to find thier training stopped while they were away, despite what the user guide said when they left.
I'm not going to leave because of it, but it is another big mark against CCP in my book.
Loc. |
Toshiro GreyHawk
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 16:23:00 -
[3594]
Eh ...
It's one of those things where if people never had it ... they wouldn't miss it. But you let people do something for an extended period of time and then take it away - you **** them off.
That's actually the thing that started the American Revolution. The Colonies had been granted a large degree of self government because the Mother Country didn't care enough to bother regulating them. Then there came the French and Indian War and it cost Britain a good bit of money to defend it's North American Colonies. They then decided that the colonies should help pay for the war ...
They probably hadn't taxed the colonies in the first place as a way to help them get going but in any case - they hadn't taxed them. So ... once they started taxing them, all these people who had gotten used to not being taxed - got ****ed off and ... now we've got two countries instead of one.
You could make a similar argument about the American Civil war but I wouldn't want to go into that in just one post.
Anyway, what CCP should have done - was to just leave well enough alone (I don't buy the idea that there was some kind of avalanche of people ghosting. I could believe that with the world economy going in the tank that there was an avalanche of closing accounts but just because these people were closing their accounts with training still running it didn't make them ghosters. More likely it made them people who couldn't afford as many accounts as they had and just closed some of them. Whether they were ever going to bring any of them back would depend on their individual financial situations.
Since CCP has made it a point to say that they don't delete accounts, whether these accounts were being ghosted or not they weren't impacting the way CCP did business. In other words - it wasn't hurting CCP to allow ghosting.
Probably all they've done is to insure that a lot of people who might have come back - won't. The lure of getting to come back and fly some fancy new ship they'd ghost trained is something of a real incentive to come back to the game. Now that won't be there.
Lastly, if you are going to take something away from people that they've gotten used to having - you should accompany it with a treat. Thus, if they'd said they were eliminating Ghosting but at the same time implementing skill queuing, which is badly needed, they'd have gotten a lot more acceptance.
But - they've totally screwed the pooch on this one.
They've accomplished - nothing - and made a lot of their clients mad in the process.
|
Simon Barrow
181st Legion
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 16:24:00 -
[3595]
Originally by: Poreuomai Edited by: Poreuomai on 15/10/2008 16:22:38
Originally by: Max Khaos If your not paying a subscription, then you should get "nothing" from CCP or the game ..... period.
Agreed ...
... and I agree that inconsistency is not good for customer relations:
Quote: CCP Inconsistency
Find the dev blog where they state that they are removing ghost training on the chinese server and that this will never happen on Tranquility. Then you have your inconsistency. |
Lana Ground
Caldari Galactic Accord State Navy Academy Accord Corporate Enterprise Syndicate
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 16:27:00 -
[3596]
119 PAGES anyone think CCP have gotten the message yet that ppl aint happy??? |
Maestro Ulv
Phaze-9 Apotheosis of Virtue
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 16:28:00 -
[3597]
Originally by: 10of10 You know you people are not going to leave.... Your addicted like drug addicts and they know it... No way can you click that unsubscribe button....no way. You have invested too much real money to quit....spent too many years playing to quit... like right now you need to get out of this thread and log in to get your FiX.....
Yup, totaly correct... Thats why everyone realised they could not cancel there accounts because the page was down, they just went there to see.. yeah. Maybe it went down due to the sheer influx of people actualy quitting!
They will quit or like most and myself move pilots to a sole account and give the finger to CCP. |
Shard Merchant
Minmatar
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 16:30:00 -
[3598]
Its closer to 200+ pages.
Now, even the few thousand posts that 200 pages represents, you need to really drop a dramabomb to get it that big. This is no longer a vocal minority, its the vocal minority and the vocal majority combining like Voltron and shoving a giant corkscrew up torfi's butt. |
Poreuomai
Minmatar Mirkur Draug'Tyr Ushra'Khan
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 16:31:00 -
[3599]
Edited by: Poreuomai on 15/10/2008 16:40:16
Originally by: Simon Barrow Find the dev blog where they state that they are removing ghost training on the chinese server and that this will never happen on Tranquility. Then you have your inconsistency.
Anyway ... for reference here's the old player guide on archive.org:
http://web.archive.org/web/20080212211449/http://www.eve-online.com/guide/en/g615.asp
Quote: Skills continue training even if you are logged off or if your account is inactive (in the second scenario you can't change skill training, though).
|
Lag
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 16:32:00 -
[3600]
Edited by: Lag on 15/10/2008 16:33:03
Originally by: 10of10 You know you people are not going to leave.... Your addicted like drug addicts and they know it... No way can you click that unsubscribe button....no way. You have invested too much real money to quit....spent too many years playing to quit... like right now you need to get out of this thread and log in to get your FiX.....
Or they have already quit/unsubscribed.. And the only reason they are checking this damn thread is because they hope CCP will not implement this ******ed change so they can come back...
Hmmm sounds an awful lot like what I'm doing.
Genius -.- |
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BIind
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 16:32:00 -
[3601]
Edited by: BIind on 15/10/2008 16:41:33
Originally by: GrimnirBut I see it now, ad hominem. CCP has done bad things, so this must be a bad thing
You are confusing ad hom with noticing a pattern or the direction this company is heading.
Quote: Look, to use an analogy, if you stopped paying for your lvl68 warrior in wow for a month, would you expect to come back and find that you could use a epic flying mount ? No, plain and simple.
It's a stupid analogy as are most when it comes to EVE but I'll bite. If I return to WoW to play my 68 char again I won't have to go through attunement for high end instances, I will get better gear through PVP than those 6 months ago, I can get powerleveled to 70 by friends in uber gear and can then instantly leech high end items because everyone is almost capped and can do the encounters with their eyes closed. Even if not, the expansion comes out and the playing field will be leveled.
If you return to EVE you are where you left it. Nothing except someone throwing a set of +5s your way, which you can't leave highsec with, will change anything about that now that ghost training is gone.
It's foolish to be happy to see old players leave, CCP will have to figure out a way to attract new players to get their subscriptions up and you may not like that demographic. |
Lana Ground
Caldari Galactic Accord State Navy Academy Accord Corporate Enterprise Syndicate
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 16:33:00 -
[3602]
/me compiles all the of this topic into a book |
Lana Ground
Caldari Galactic Accord State Navy Academy Accord Corporate Enterprise Syndicate
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 16:33:00 -
[3603]
Edited by: Lana Ground on 15/10/2008 16:34:02
Originally by: 10of10 You know you people are not going to leave.... Your addicted like drug addicts and they know it... No way can you click that unsubscribe button....no way. You have invested too much real money to quit....spent too many years playing to quit... like right now you need to get out of this thread and log in to get your FiX.....
Or they have already quit/unsubscribed.. And the only reason they are checking this damn thread is because they hope CCP will not implement this ******ed change so they can come back... same here
same
Hmmm sounds an awful lot like what I'm doing.
Genius -.-
|
Hot Cake
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 16:34:00 -
[3604]
Originally by: Loc Maythan
Originally by: Ilda Mrika
Originally by: C601 What's with all the ****ing whiners ..
Its pay to play, don't like it build your own mmo with ghost training in effect !!!!!
The issue is pay to skill up and not pay to play. Post when you understand what subject is in discussion
The issue for me is not whether ghost-training exists or not - I've never knowingly used it, I have a single character, I don't care if they remove it.
The issue for me (and many people) is the way that have done it - not going to re-post what I said previously. Suffice to say: short notice, power of 2, GTCs, "it's unintended but let's market it as a feature", "it causes strain on the DB", stealth edit to user guide, no feedback in one of the longest thread on EO.
I'd just like them to 'fess up and say "we're tired of people training without paying, so you've got 3 months before we pull the plug". Honest, and gives people who haven't seen the news or this thread time to do something about it, rather than quitting when they come back to find thier training stopped while they were away, despite what the user guide said when they left.
I'm not going to leave because of it, but it is another big mark against CCP in my book.
Loc.
Dude it¦s not free riding, or a "bug", it¦s game mechanics as it was meant to be, so why change it after 102 months,
simple answer = $$$$$greed$$$$$
|
Violet Pettle
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 16:34:00 -
[3605]
seriously stfu already what are u lot really moaning about? most normal players have to pay to run an account to keep it trained u just loved the freedom to set long skills get that lvl 5 buy a card, then not pay for a few months ... so what my point? u lot are lazy cheap *******! what the point of training a character and not playing with it, what are u really doing should be the question... selling on ebay? aint that banned? or wait selling for isk in game ? seriously if u lot doing that buy gtc and sell for your isk thats a better plan u lot all moaning is getting pretty damn boring. if u dont like it go play another game to be honest all i head since i logged ontoday was half my freinds moaning about nurfs and tracking speed of blaster boats! u know what i think u lot should be doing , a) get better setup the old ones are now to common and boring (we all did with the passive drake right?) and well in ghost accounts here ya options pay for the account and get mining for your 60 days cards! few weeks u can buy your cards and still make extra isk while afk!! seriously its like listing to my 3 year old going i want i want! im bored!!!! yes we on a rescession globaly so think .. ccp want to cut the use of basically unused accounts, all u are doing is adding an extra player to the game who dont play just so u can profit off ccp's generosity ? seriously nothings ment forever so when u loose somthing that was free to start with does it matter? be honest with yourself thouse of u ghosting accounts were basically scamming ccp of money they need to rumn the accounts u do play and only now after 5 years of runnign they go opps no sorry guys time to pay for this inactive account u lot should be ashamed u all moanign and your the ones taking advantage pfft ok bored of typing now u get the point !!null |
Korizan
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 16:37:00 -
[3606]
Originally by: Maestro Ulv
Originally by: 10of10 You know you people are not going to leave.... Your addicted like drug addicts and they know it... No way can you click that unsubscribe button....no way. You have invested too much real money to quit....spent too many years playing to quit... like right now you need to get out of this thread and log in to get your FiX.....
Yup, totaly correct... Thats why everyone realised they could not cancel there accounts because the page was down, they just went there to see.. yeah. Maybe it went down due to the sheer influx of people actualy quitting!
They will quit or like most and myself move pilots to a sole account and give the finger to CCP.
OR in my case I went there to make sure my accounts were UP TO DATE
And as far as the pages. Well it would take CCP but a few minutes to actually find out how many different people are posting. It probably isn't that high but I am sure they figured they would lose some people from this. The question is will the comminuty and the game be better in the end do it.
I say yes but who knows.
And yes this might be the first step to allowing qued training on active accounts. Now they could do this without people exploiting the system. Just a thought |
James Marshalll
Gallente
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 16:37:00 -
[3607]
Edited by: James Marshalll on 15/10/2008 16:44:14 The funny thing is, is if what people said here is real and they do quit (I did cancel, but I have power of 2 until Apr, and 60day GTC until Dec) you better hope you and all your ccp ass kissing buddies do get alts. With the loss in profits, and the date for their new game coming closer eve is going to get less and less love.
But then again, if no one here has the balls to really do what they say they are going to (which I believe the majority won't have the balls to really quit) then those of us who are really ****ed will just go to other mmo's.
I am not idiot, I know that my dollar means little in the grand scheme of things, and I know players (and consumers) are stupid by nature and will just take what CCP throws at them (look at the GM scandal, population rose after it happened) but that doesn't mean I have to be. I am an adult, I have my own business and if I choose to tell the company that I feel betrayed by how I feel and to take my money else where really it doesn't matter to me if some 21 year old college kid thinks its emo-rage or not. BTW emo's don't rage, they write blogs.
EDIT: removed the quote since I wasn't really quoting him hit the wrong button. |
Mhaerdirne Solveig
Minmatar
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 16:38:00 -
[3608]
Edited by: Mhaerdirne Solveig on 15/10/2008 16:40:23 The funny thing about this change is that CCP has probably already felt the burn from these accounts cancelling, and it is only getting worse from here on out.
Originally by: Violet Pettle unreadable garbage
posts like yours are the reason these forums are terrible, stop it stop it stop it |
10of10
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 16:40:00 -
[3609]
Originally by: Violet Pettle seriously stfu already what are u lot really moaning about? most normal players have to pay to run an account to keep it trained u just loved the freedom to set long skills get that lvl 5 buy a card, then not pay for a few months ... so what my point? u lot are lazy cheap *******! what the point of training a character and not playing with it, what are u really doing should be the question... selling on ebay? aint that banned? or wait selling for isk in game ? seriously if u lot doing that buy gtc and sell for your isk thats a better plan u lot all moaning is getting pretty damn boring. if u dont like it go play another game to be honest all i head since i logged ontoday was half my freinds moaning about nurfs and tracking speed of blaster boats! u know what i think u lot should be doing , a) get better setup the old ones are now to common and boring (we all did with the passive drake right?) and well in ghost accounts here ya options pay for the account and get mining for your 60 days cards! few weeks u can buy your cards and still make extra isk while afk!! seriously its like listing to my 3 year old going i want i want! im bored!!!! yes we on a rescession globaly so think .. ccp want to cut the use of basically unused accounts, all u are doing is adding an extra player to the game who dont play just so u can profit off ccp's generosity ? seriously nothings ment forever so when u loose somthing that was free to start with does it matter? be honest with yourself thouse of u ghosting accounts were basically scamming ccp of money they need to rumn the accounts u do play and only now after 5 years of runnign they go opps no sorry guys time to pay for this inactive account u lot should be ashamed u all moanign and your the ones taking advantage pfft ok bored of typing now u get the point !!null
Mooron spotted |
Random5154
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 16:42:00 -
[3610]
Unbelievable how people believe that because it's the internets, they should get things for free.
CCP has had a long standing history of letting things slide while the impact is small, or only the minority use the 'feature'. The moment the majority start following, the importance of that said item shoots up the priority list.
After the removal of the 30day GTCs, the reduction in active accounts, so the volume of 'inactive' accounts probably went through the roof. Everyone started using the feature, you brought this upon yourself. And cares if previously this was allowed, it was because it wasn't a huge issue, until now. So CCP change their stance - quite frankly why should CCP support these accounts when they aren't being paid? Would you work for free? No, I think not. Good riddance in my opinion.
Get a job and pay to play. |
|
Carniflex
Caldari StarHunt Fallout Project
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 16:42:00 -
[3611]
Originally by: James Marshalll
The funny thing is, is if what people said here is real and they do quit (I did cancel, but I have power of 2 until Apr, and 60day GTC until Dec) you better hope you and all your ccp ass kissing buddies do get alts.
I'm sorry to say, that sky is not falling over here. In fact it is looking uncharacteristically solid even. Now .. will some alt accounts get dropped - sure - as mutch over ghost training as over increasing GTC prices. And umm - on the flip side, now that ghost training is removed perhaps reintroduce 30d GTC's ? |
Poreuomai
Minmatar Mirkur Draug'Tyr Ushra'Khan
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 16:44:00 -
[3612]
Edited by: Poreuomai on 15/10/2008 16:45:56
Originally by: Random5154 Unbelievable how people believe that because it's the internets, they should get things for free.
CCP has had a long standing history of letting things slide while the impact is small, or only the minority use the 'feature'. The moment the majority start following, the importance of that said item shoots up the priority list.
After the removal of the 30day GTCs, the reduction in active accounts, so the volume of 'inactive' accounts probably went through the roof. Everyone started using the feature, you brought this upon yourself. And cares if previously this was allowed, it was because it wasn't a huge issue, until now. So CCP change their stance - quite frankly why should CCP support these accounts when they aren't being paid? Would you work for free? No, I think not. Good riddance in my opinion.
Get a job and pay to play.
Yeah but the thing is that CCP advertised this feature in the old player guide. They can't really claim that it was something they 'let slide until now'.
Having said that, I'm happy for them to remove the feature.
|
Arachna
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 16:45:00 -
[3613]
Edited by: Arachna on 15/10/2008 16:48:11 This bad. Real bad, training for long lvl5 skills take long enough as it is and it was nice if you came after a long brake from eve, personnally I took several brakes, 1 brake was 1.5 years and the others always several months.
i am just a casual player that tries out the new stuff for a month or 2 and then i get tired of it because I have to train a long lvl5 skill to unlock it..
They make it sound now that ghostraining is a bug, but it used to be a feature.
|
Kheldon Fel
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 16:45:00 -
[3614]
Edited by: Kheldon Fel on 15/10/2008 16:46:29
Originally by: Random5154 CCP has had a long standing history of letting things slide while the impact is small, or only the minority use the 'feature'.
If that's true, why publish this feature in the players guide which is available to everyone? |
Aikhiko Somotho
Caldari Imperium Galactica
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 16:46:00 -
[3615]
Ghost Training Removed - On Players Perspective
If you click on the link, you will see a blog, and that blog has some post about the removal of ghost training. It was written before some of the more recent dev responses. Yet, it summarizes something. Ghost Training was a good feature, something we liked, and something that was a good selling point for Eve Online.
But character farms with ghost training, getting additional resources with strategically switching between accounts, etc. is different from getting a skill done while you take a break. Soon ghost training ended up in the way of implementing other important features, became a problem for some. They had to change it.
We got a dev blog, and got our chance to respond to it. Most people decided that spamming the board will be effective and good. I would have to say: It only stopped the chance of any intelligent discussion. And only intelligent discussion could have an effect on how CCP decides about features and bugs now and in the future.
Some pointed out: It is sad when a player could post better explanation than the GMs, and it can be explained without lies, and yet we see how a feature gets renamed as bug. But is spaming better? You think that CCP forgot to think about the people who use this feature? And how unhappy some will be? DO you think they didn't expect the spam and the spam would stop them? |
Kerfira
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 16:47:00 -
[3616]
Edited by: Kerfira on 15/10/2008 16:49:10 The average EVE player stays in the game for 7 months. The longtime players are hooked, may threaten to emoragequit, but the majority won't. The newer players have not used ghost training, may whine a bit but otherwise they'll leave EVE at the point they would have anyway. Future players will not care at all what once was.
So to all you whiners....... If you're REALLY serious about what you're saying, I dare you to take your trained characters, and their values, and biomass them ...and you know what? The large maojrity of you WON'T!!!
EDIT: Btw, CCP, remember to remove ghost RP's too....
|
Yakumo Smith
Gallente When Darkness Falls
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 16:49:00 -
[3617]
Hmm thread still seems broken.
Or should I say hidden out of sight.
Fail CCP. |
Le Skunk
Low Sec Liberators
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 16:49:00 -
[3618]
"YOU CAN TAKE OUR LAND.... BUT YE CANNIE TAKE OUR GHOST TRAINING THREAD"
SKUNK |
never2be
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 16:50:00 -
[3619]
i just rage quite,
and i wont be resubbing my goast training alt now, iether
ccp -2 |
Seriya
Caldari The Priory
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 16:50:00 -
[3620]
Originally by: 10of10 You know you people are not going to leave.... Your addicted like drug addicts and they know it... No way can you click that unsubscribe button....no way.
Just sold one character on an account that I am now NEVER going to renew again, and two more to go in the next few months...
Like many others, whilst I don't see that we have an intrinsic right to Ghost Training, I do consider the manner in which this has been handled to be disgusting. Whilst I'm not quitting the game, I am doing the talking with my subscriptions. |
|
Polarsmurf
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 16:50:00 -
[3621]
this idea sucks, i for one will be trimming down my accounts as the direct result. |
Le Skunk
Low Sec Liberators
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 16:51:00 -
[3622]
Edited by: Le Skunk on 15/10/2008 16:55:00 Edited by: Le Skunk on 15/10/2008 16:53:43
Originally by: Seriya
Originally by: 10of10 You know you people are not going to leave.... Your addicted like drug addicts and they know it... No way can you click that unsubscribe button....no way.
Just sold one character on an account that I am now NEVER going to renew again, and two more to go in the next few months...
Like many others, whilst I don't see that we have an intrinsic right to Ghost Training, I do consider the manner in which this has been handled to be disgusting. Whilst I'm not quitting the game, I am doing the talking with my subscriptions.
Respect to you and a shining example to all.
Eves a fun game, and its difficult for people to quit.
But you dont need to quit to register your displeasure at CCP. Kill off some alts - never renew them again.
If CCPs behavior improves in the future, then you can think about renwing them. If it dosent.. well you've save some subs and have broken the slightly dodgy metagaming dependence we all have nowadays,
SKUNK |
JOSEPHx
Mercenary Forces
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 16:52:00 -
[3623]
Originally by: never2be i just rage quite,
and i wont be resubbing my goast training alt now, iether
ccp -2
Quote this if you're feeling down.
- |
Aikhiko Somotho
Caldari Imperium Galactica
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 16:52:00 -
[3624]
Kerfira: The problem is, learning skills became a major problem, but if CCP wants to change that they need a good system for compensation for times when they remove a skill. For this, they prefer to have skill queues, and give those skills a priority over their preselected skills.
So no change to learning skills (which can scare many new players away) till they create skill queues.
And they can't implement skill queues, as long as ghost training gets abused like we seen it. When it isn't about a break, but strategically choosing which accounts are active at which time and trying to gain some advantage with that. And yes, skill queues would mean your players won't have to wake up at night for skill changes.
|
Random5154
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 16:53:00 -
[3625]
Originally by: Poreuomai Yeah but the thing is that CCP advertised this feature in the old player guide. They can't really claim that it was something they 'let slide until now'.
Having said that, I'm happy for them to remove the feature.
I realize that it was in the game guide. A lot of things were in previous guides, like old tracking mechanics, old missile mechanics. And then when CCP decides to change those mechanics, they update guides.
A guide is just that, it's a guide. It's not a set of rules, it's not an EULA, it's statements of how the game operates. CCP doesn't really need reasons to change the feature, although they have provided some. Now that the feature has been removed, I am sure they will update the guide (if this has not already happened).
In summary, people will ***** to find whatever they can to support their argument. People expect to have CCP continue to roll over their accounts, be able to train for free, because that's how it's worked. Well, that's changed. Just as speed is going to change, at which time I'm sure CCP will update the guides. I totally support this change to be honest, but that's just my opinion and perspective. |
Venezia Dawn
Caldari The VD Clinic Violent-Tendencies
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 16:53:00 -
[3626]
So...I had a plan for this character that was going to go for another year or so, but with no ability to rotate my accounts, that plan has been shortened to 3-4 months.
Change was supposed to be implemented today, so I reactivated the account only to find that she was still training.
Did I miss something where this patch was deployed but wasn't going to actually cut off skills for a while?
If so, oh well, I didn't have time to read 100+ pages, but if not...then what's the deal? |
Ilda Mrika
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 16:54:00 -
[3627]
Originally by: Le Skunk "YOU CAN TAKE OUR LAND.... BUT YE CANNIE TAKE OUR GHOST TRAINING THREAD"
SKUNK
Hear hear |
James Marshalll
Gallente
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 16:55:00 -
[3628]
Edited by: James Marshalll on 15/10/2008 16:57:37
Originally by: Carniflex
Originally by: James Marshalll
The funny thing is, is if what people said here is real and they do quit (I did cancel, but I have power of 2 until Apr, and 60day GTC until Dec) you better hope you and all your ccp ass kissing buddies do get alts.
I'm sorry to say, that sky is not falling over here. In fact it is looking uncharacteristically solid even. Now .. will some alt accounts get dropped - sure - as mutch over ghost training as over increasing GTC prices. And umm - on the flip side, now that ghost training is removed perhaps reintroduce 30d GTC's ?
eh, grats on predicting the fallout of something that will take a couple of months to happen, with in hours of the change going through.
Can you tell me next months lottery numbers in the state of NY while you are at it? Thanks! |
Ikaa LoveYums
Caldari Eve University Ivy League
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 16:55:00 -
[3629]
120 pages or so and STILL no one at CCP has the balls/guts/backbone to make a response to the ****ed off players that are keeping them in business.
Way to go you effing idiots. |
Ukulu
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 16:56:00 -
[3630]
Just re-activated an account that had been suspended for 18 days or so. It was still training the skill I had set it to train - so, thankfully no SP lost.
Question is: has this "bug-fix" been implemented CCP? A response from the dev team would be nice! |
|
Violet Pettle
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 16:56:00 -
[3631]
Originally by: 10of10
Originally by: Violet Pettle seriously stfu already what are u lot really moaning about? most normal players have to pay to run an account to keep it trained u just loved the freedom to set long skills get that lvl 5 buy a card, then not pay for a few months ... so what my point? u lot are lazy cheap *******! what the point of training a character and not playing with it, what are u really doing should be the question... selling on ebay? aint that banned? or wait selling for isk in game ? seriously if u lot doing that buy gtc and sell for your isk thats a better plan u lot all moaning is getting pretty damn boring. if u dont like it go play another game to be honest all i head since i logged ontoday was half my freinds moaning about nurfs and tracking speed of blaster boats! u know what i think u lot should be doing , a) get better setup the old ones are now to common and boring (we all did with the passive drake right?) and well in ghost accounts here ya options pay for the account and get mining for your 60 days cards! few weeks u can buy your cards and still make extra isk while afk!! seriously its like listing to my 3 year old going i want i want! im bored!!!! yes we on a rescession globaly so think .. ccp want to cut the use of basically unused accounts, all u are doing is adding an extra player to the game who dont play just so u can profit off ccp's generosity ? seriously nothings ment forever so when u loose somthing that was free to start with does it matter? be honest with yourself thouse of u ghosting accounts were basically scamming ccp of money they need to rumn the accounts u do play and only now after 5 years of runnign they go opps no sorry guys time to pay for this inactive account u lot should be ashamed u all moanign and your the ones taking advantage pfft ok bored of typing now u get the point !!null
Mooron spotted
lol guess we found one person whos been using ghosting as a way of survival then :) lol sad so sad i write an opinion follwing my conttitutional right to freedom of speach and u wanna smack me for it? but i think most who read this would be ****ed at me like i care really not i aint moaning about nurfs etc i love them keeps us intrested to what to do next since eve gets to repetitive or do u lot not think like that? i run my own buissness outside of eve i know the way it works money... put it this way no money payed to eve no eve at all then all 40,000+ players there are have to go else where and for what power lvl'in? lol that in its selfs a joke and requires no skill at least in eve the longer u play the better u are just like in real life this is diffrent has been since 03 when i first started on my main i seen so many changes and yet i still keep paying my $$! and so do all of u. Just now some of u lot dont liek the fact u gonna have to pay to play so tough luck, to me ,, sound like u would do with with a bank loan? take a few grand and not pay it back? lol and im the idiot? like i said ghosting been free since 03, u had the chance now u gotta pay to play easy as that. dont forget ccp have been the only mmorpg to do gtc's so think your self lucky u aint being ripped off u just gotta work a bit more to and keep them card sales going to keep your account going, reading ppl cancling the account lol im just gonna laugh if i was ccp u cancel an account i would have it instantly deleted then when u do come back u gotta start from scratch, lets thank god im not working for ccp then shall we? stop moaning get mining or put ya hands in your pockets and stop being cheap !! |
BIind
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 16:56:00 -
[3632]
Originally by: Aikhiko Somotho Kerfira: The problem is, learning skills became a major problem, but if CCP wants to change that they need a good system for compensation for times when they remove a skill. For this, they prefer to have skill queues, and give those skills a priority over their preselected skills.
So no change to learning skills (which can scare many new players away) till they create skill queues.
Care to quote anyone from CCP even considering skill queues a possibility? |
10of10
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 16:58:00 -
[3633]
It will be the best joke ever if ccp just did this to get you people to reactivate your accounts.... |
Le Skunk
Low Sec Liberators
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 16:58:00 -
[3634]
Originally by: Carniflex
I'm sorry to say, that sky is not falling over here. In fact it is looking uncharacteristically solid even. Now .. will some alt accounts get dropped - sure - as mutch over ghost training as over increasing GTC prices. And umm - on the flip side, now that ghost training is removed perhaps reintroduce 30d GTC's ?
The GTC changes were supposedly nothing to do with money or ghost training but in a desire to mimic the "industry norm".
Despite the fact they proudly boast this game is nothing like the industry norm (single server etc)
SKUNK |
4MX
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 16:59:00 -
[3635]
I have two accounts, but I have no a lot of time for game. The old system suited me, as for 5-6 hours of game per week I was ready to pay serially accounts and serially to pump over skils in the block. Now it is not interesting to me. You have lost the subscriber. This payment was last. Good-bye. |
Lana Ground
Caldari Galactic Accord State Navy Academy Accord Corporate Enterprise Syndicate
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 16:59:00 -
[3636]
Violet: NO ONE IS GOING TO READ ALL THAT **IT POST SMALL AND TO THE POINT...
|
Tae'Lin Hynd
Simply Planned
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 17:01:00 -
[3637]
Originally by: Violet Pettle
Originally by: 10of10
Originally by: Violet Pettle seriously stfu already what are u lot really moaning about? most normal players have to pay to run an account to keep it trained u just loved the freedom to set long skills get that lvl 5 buy a card, then not pay for a few months ... so what my point? u lot are lazy cheap *******! what the point of training a character and not playing with it, what are u really doing should be the question... selling on ebay? aint that banned? or wait selling for isk in game ? seriously if u lot doing that buy gtc and sell for your isk thats a better plan u lot all moaning is getting pretty damn boring. if u dont like it go play another game to be honest all i head since i logged ontoday was half my freinds moaning about nurfs and tracking speed of blaster boats! u know what i think u lot should be doing , a) get better setup the old ones are now to common and boring (we all did with the passive drake right?) and well in ghost accounts here ya options pay for the account and get mining for your 60 days cards! few weeks u can buy your cards and still make extra isk while afk!! seriously its like listing to my 3 year old going i want i want! im bored!!!! yes we on a rescession globaly so think .. ccp want to cut the use of basically unused accounts, all u are doing is adding an extra player to the game who dont play just so u can profit off ccp's generosity ? seriously nothings ment forever so when u loose somthing that was free to start with does it matter? be honest with yourself thouse of u ghosting accounts were basically scamming ccp of money they need to rumn the accounts u do play and only now after 5 years of runnign they go opps no sorry guys time to pay for this inactive account u lot should be ashamed u all moanign and your the ones taking advantage pfft ok bored of typing now u get the point !!null
Mooron spotted
lol guess we found one person whos been using ghosting as a way of survival then :) lol sad so sad i write an opinion follwing my conttitutional right to freedom of speach and u wanna smack me for it? but i think most who read this would be ****ed at me like i care really not i aint moaning about nurfs etc i love them keeps us intrested to what to do next since eve gets to repetitive or do u lot not think like that? i run my own buissness outside of eve i know the way it works money... put it this way no money payed to eve no eve at all then all 40,000+ players there are have to go else where and for what power lvl'in? lol that in its selfs a joke and requires no skill at least in eve the longer u play the better u are just like in real life this is diffrent has been since 03 when i first started on my main i seen so many changes and yet i still keep paying my $$! and so do all of u. Just now some of u lot dont liek the fact u gonna have to pay to play so tough luck, to me ,, sound like u would do with with a bank loan? take a few grand and not pay it back? lol and im the idiot? like i said ghosting been free since 03, u had the chance now u gotta pay to play easy as that. dont forget ccp have been the only mmorpg to do gtc's so think your self lucky u aint being ripped off u just gotta work a bit more to and keep them card sales going to keep your account going, reading ppl cancling the account lol im just gonna laugh if i was ccp u cancel an account i would have it instantly deleted then when u do come back u gotta start from scratch, lets thank god im not working for ccp then shall we? stop moaning get mining or put ya hands in your pockets and stop being cheap !!
Quit posting, no one is reading what you are saying, because it is on big blob of text.
again, it is not about being cheap as you last line says. They could fix this problem by not allowning CCP APPROVED CHARACTERS FOR ISK AND GTC FOR ISK
AS soon as they gave isk real world monitary value, they broke the f'n game. simple |
Iota Belisarius
State Protectorate
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 17:01:00 -
[3638]
How many threads are they going to force us to post in only to say they're being locked? Or how about this hidden threadnaught? Massive conspiracy of fail.
oh and -2. |
Freezehunter
Gallente O.W.N. Corp OWN Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 17:02:00 -
[3639]
Originally by: Pastor Blew Edited by: Pastor Blew on 15/10/2008 11:28:16
Originally by: Loi Shania Oh no - I can't train whilst I'm not a paying customer!!!
Suck it up folks - it's a good decision that should of been made ages ago.
To those in a fit of emorage, have fun in World of ****ers
Re-tard.
Loi Shania is right you goddamn freeloader ****-wad farmer *****! |
Aikhiko Somotho
Caldari Imperium Galactica
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 17:02:00 -
[3640]
Originally by: Venezia Dawn So...I had a plan for this character that was going to go for another year or so, but with no ability to rotate my accounts, that plan has been shortened to 3-4 months.
Change was supposed to be implemented today, so I reactivated the account only to find that she was still training.
Did I miss something where this patch was deployed but wasn't going to actually cut off skills for a while?
If so, oh well, I didn't have time to read 100+ pages, but if not...then what's the deal?
It doesn't "pause" the training as you would. It just sets SP/hour to 0, so the moment you resubscribe it can continue... |
|
Erimisha
Minmatar
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 17:02:00 -
[3641]
Originally by: Random5154 .
After the removal of the 30day GTCs, the reduction in active accounts, so the volume of 'inactive' accounts probably went through the roof. Everyone started using the feature, you brought this upon yourself. And cares if previously this was allowed, it was because it wasn't a huge issue, until now. So CCP change their stance - quite frankly why should CCP support these accounts when they aren't being paid? Would you work for free? No, I think not. Good riddance in my opinion.
Get a job and pay to play.
"Ghost Training gives an unfair advantage" - what about legal RMT (GTC for ISK), what about 'ghost selling', 'ghost RP gain' and 'ghost industry'?
then it became
"Ghost Training sets up a burden on the db and causes lag!" - does CCP really have such ****poor incompetant staff?
then it became
"Ghost Training has really been a bug all this time!" - a 'bug' they fixed years ago on the Chinese server but *couldn't* fix here? Does CCP really have such ****poor incompetant staff?
Coincidently, the only thread EVER to 'disappear' on Eve-O happens to be going on 120+ pages after being buried in a link trail of 3 different locked posts.
THAT is the topic at hand. Not so much 'Ghost training' itself, but the ineptitude of how CCP managed to break the news and the constant changing subterfuge and subsequent coverup.
Hmm, sure reminds me of the last scandal (free t2 BPOs) and how they handled that..
THAT is the reason I have cancelled my accounts. I have only played 3 MMOs (DAoC for 5 years, SWG for 1.5 years and EVE for 2 years). I left those games not because of burn out but because I watched the devs isolate themselves more and more from the community to the point they made such off the wall decisions (such as a 5 year old documented feature becoming a 'bug' they refused to fix after having a documented 'bug fix' available for about 2 years when they changed the Chinese server). |
Shar Tegral
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 17:03:00 -
[3642]
Originally by: Ikaa LoveYums 120 pages or so and STILL no one at CCP has the balls/guts/backbone to make a response to the ****ed off players that are keeping them in business.
CCP Response pages and pages back. Originally by: Ikaa LoveYums Way to go you I'm an effing idiot.
Corrected the target of your flame. |
Ra Vhim
Black Bag Ops
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 17:04:00 -
[3643]
Originally by: Ukulu Question is: has this "bug-fix" been implemented CCP? A response from the dev team would be nice!
I think I read somewhere that it will take 3 days before the training stop so people have a chance to resub. Don't quote me on that, though. I dunno what thread I read it in. |
10of10
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 17:07:00 -
[3644]
CCP SAY SOMETHING |
Poreuomai
Minmatar Mirkur Draug'Tyr Ushra'Khan
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 17:07:00 -
[3645]
Edited by: Poreuomai on 15/10/2008 17:09:02
Originally by: Random5154 CCP doesn't really need reasons to change the feature, although they have provided some.
What is annoying people is CCP pretending that this was never a feature but a bug. I support the change, but not how it was justified. |
Lana Ground
Caldari Galactic Accord State Navy Academy Accord Corporate Enterprise Syndicate
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 17:09:00 -
[3646]
anyone know what the new warhammer MMO is like??? might go and buy that and see what they're DEVS and GM's are like...actually someone tell me some half decent MMO's
-2 |
Poreuomai
Minmatar Mirkur Draug'Tyr Ushra'Khan
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 17:10:00 -
[3647]
Originally by: Lana Ground anyone know what the new warhammer MMO is like???
I doubt it has space ships. |
Erimisha
Minmatar
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 17:10:00 -
[3648]
Originally by: Le Skunk
The GTC changes were supposedly nothing to do with money or ghost training but in a desire to mimic the "industry norm".
Despite the fact they proudly boast this game is nothing like the industry norm (single server etc)
SKUNK
You noticed that too?
For all the talk CCP has spoken through the years to the players, to the media and in their corporate literature of being so unique in MMOs with all their differences (real time skill training, ghost training, different payment options, aggressive PR campaign against RMT, 'BY gamers FOR gamers', listening to their customerbase, etc) they recently seem to be 'genericizing' themselves into every other MMO out there. |
Trixia Bonsul
State of Shock
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 17:11:00 -
[3649]
I have to say I support CCP's action here. So many people did it for so long and it was obvious from the get-go that it was broken. It really didn't make sense. IMO if you have the money to pay for a subscription to EVE and then for an additional alt or more, then right on. You're not going to be affected by this (nor am I).
However if you character farm, or can't be arsed to pay a continuing subscription for EVE from month-to-month, then you need to get your priorities in order and find a venue or career that allows you that luxury. CCP have had the cookie jar open for far too long and it's time they closed it.
Unlike most things on the net, CCP's service isn't and cannot be free. They need to make money, and I understand this change. The more income they have, the better they can improve this product that we're all completely addicted to. I'd reckon most of the people here will find they are unable to stay away from the game for long and will come back to continue the pasttime of whining. |
Grimnir
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 17:12:00 -
[3650]
Edited by: Grimnir on 15/10/2008 17:12:28
Originally by: Lana Ground anyone know what the new warhammer MMO is like??? might go and buy that and see what they're DEVS and GM's are like...actually someone tell me some half decent MMO's
-2
Put it this way, War is lagged to hell and there are *NO* official forums. Way to save on moderators *gg*
But if you have a DAOC account you can get a free hat or something ... Trust me EVE is the best MMO out there, regardless of what you think of its staff. This whole situation doesn't affect the gameplay in anyway, other then making it less laggy for all the folks who've not ragequit :) |
|
BIind
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 17:12:00 -
[3651]
Originally by: Lana Ground anyone know what the new warhammer MMO is like??? might go and buy that and see what they're DEVS and GM's are like...actually someone tell me some half decent MMO's
This is a pretty accurate summary.
|
Poreuomai
Minmatar Mirkur Draug'Tyr Ushra'Khan
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 17:14:00 -
[3652]
Originally by: CCP t0rfifrans Those of us who were involved in the process of making the decision and communicating it to the community did not realize this bug had been so accepted as a feature that it was listed as such in our own documentation on our own website.
May I suggest that you now go through and check all your documentation.
Including the item database which is badly out-of-date and has some glaring errors in it ('EMP S' +50% range bonus lol). |
James Marshalll
Gallente
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 17:15:00 -
[3653]
Originally by: Violet Pettle
lol guess we found one person whos been using ghosting as a way of survival then :) lol
Here is an example of how I used ghost training so you nubs can quit talking shit about something you are clueless on.
I joined eve in 04 because a buddy told me about this great game, a game with open pvp real losses no grinding of exp and world control. He tells me about how they have this great feature that lets you train offline, even if you let your sub run out for a month, you will still finish the training. I joined, started learning skills and started ratting on my amarr.
After a while I was like man, sorry but F' this game I will never catch up to you because its all time based. He explains that you don't need the same sp's to be effective with someone, just a focus trained character, and I was like ok ok fine and let it go. About 2 months in EQ2 came out and I wanted to check it out but I was training Frigate 5, so I canceled.
Month after EQ2 launch I was like man, f' this game, I will find something else to play and then I realized HOLY CRAP! My guy has frigate 5 now COOL!!! and instantly resubbed. Then I decided like everyone else, that you can't really get crap accomplished in a decent amount of time with out an alt and I hooked it up. Started training my Gallente alt for Gal Ind 5 and had to take a month break for work. Wife was just having a baby, and I had my brother end up in a financial situation and needed a loan, so I canceled both my accounts.
Came back a couple of months later and realized I had two level 5 skills training and was STOKED!! I was so happy....
But I have ADD (not an excuse, I don't even know if I really have ADD I just have a REALLY short attention span) so I play for a few months, get bored, set a long skill and quit for a month to play another mmo. You know what happened everytime? I would be playing another mmo and then realize I finished that level 5 skill and I would resub to start a new one, get rehooked and play for 7 months.
What will happen now?
I will get bored, because I do with any game I play, set a level 5, my time will run out and when I get bored of another mmo instead of coming back to eve, ill find another game that I can progress in with how much effort I put in, not just the date on my account creation. I am not saying thats CCP's fault, its just how I am. What IS ccp's fault is the timing of this with the ending of the promotion for the power of two, where people like I got ANOTHER account just because of how great it was that the system worked this way, only to find out a week later they were making this change. Mix that with all the other things CCP has done (listed many times, not going to do it again) I finally just said enough is enough. Im not EMORAGING!#%!% or whining, Im giving the provider of a service that has garnered a lot of money from me over the last 4 years my discontent with what they are doing.
You don't like it? Thats your right. Don't read the thread. |
Tae'Lin Hynd
Simply Planned
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 17:16:00 -
[3654]
to be totally honest, I would have takin a sub fee increase before I am willing to swallow this one..... |
Lydia Bennet
Caldari Alloyed Tritanium Bar And Grill
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 17:16:00 -
[3655]
Originally by: Trixia Bonsul
Unlike most things on the net, CCP's service isn't and cannot be free. They need to make money, and I understand this change
You obviously have a better grasp of these economics than I do, so explain this to me:
I have 5 accounts, of which an average of 3 (probably a bit over that, tbh) are open at any given time.
With GT gone, I will be closing permanently 4 of those 5 accounts, leaving exactly one that is open all the time.
Now how exactly does CCP make MORE money out of this? |
Erimisha
Minmatar
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 17:20:00 -
[3656]
Originally by: Poreuomai Edited by: Poreuomai on 15/10/2008 17:09:02
Originally by: Random5154 CCP doesn't really need reasons to change the feature, although they have provided some.
What is annoying people is CCP pretending that this was never a feature but a bug. I support the change, but not how it was justified.
First it was an 'unfair advantage' and then it became a 'database resource hog' and THEN it became a "bug that became a feature"..
Every time one of the previous excuses were given by CCP it was promptly tore to shreds (rightfully so) and pure crap.
-How is Ghost Training any more of an 'unfair advantage' than CCP-approved RMT or 'ghost datacore farming' or 'ghost trading' or 'ghost CEO-ing'?
-What kind of incompetant db manager do you have if inactive accounts puts such a strain on the db? (Well, they claimed they *couldn't* fire t20 because he was their db guy, right? We all know what kind of upstanding and straight guy he is, right?)
-If it was a 'bug that became a feature' why didn't they fix it sooner? Even if their db guy was too stupid to figure out a trigger that 'account active=n' triggers 'training=paused' then why didn't they 'fix' it when they 'fixed' the Chinese server?
None of this includes the multiple locked OFFICIAL threads and how.. shocking coincidentally.. this thread simply disappears and CCP cannot, for the life of them, figure out how to get it back on the Information Portal.. |
Random5154
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 17:20:00 -
[3657]
Originally by: Erimisha
THAT is the topic at hand. Not so much 'Ghost training' itself, but the ineptitude of how CCP managed to break the news and the constant changing subterfuge and subsequent coverup.
THAT is the reason I have cancelled my accounts.
Look, if you have played EVE for 2 years and are cancelling your account over that, then OK. I bet 1 ISK that once you cool off you'll reactivate, probably even before the subscription ends.
It'll be interesting to monitor server numbers over the next few months after this change, the GTC change, the speed change. All of them individually were apparently the 'end' and 'doom' of EVE. Let's see if the combination makes a dent. Personally it'll be great to be in 0.0 and not see toon A in a nano-HAC gang, then toon B that's been in sleep hotdrop in his carrier. For the average gamer this is a fantastic change.
I have the $'s to pay for the accounts, not the time. You have the time, not the $'s. Which do you think CCP prefers? |
StealthGerbils
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 17:23:00 -
[3658]
Edited by: StealthGerbils on 15/10/2008 17:24:10 I think it would be more reasonable to have it keep training skills for 2 weeks instead of 3 days
that way it would keep the whole "I can go inactive and still get something awesome and have a reason to resub after i get burnt out" while getting rid of the whole "I have a character with a full set of +5s that I reactivate every other month or so and I am training gallente titan V and have been for the past 3 months for free".
Really think of extending the time because there are so many different solutions instead of just cutting off training time after 3 days. |
James Marshalll
Gallente
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 17:23:00 -
[3659]
Originally by: Lana Ground anyone know what the new warhammer MMO is like??? might go and buy that and see what they're DEVS and GM's are like...actually someone tell me some half decent MMO's
-2
I have a lot of experience with Mythic.
They also did the Game Dark age of Camelot. Warhammer is your standard mmo, fast leveling, lots of pvp (you level through pvp also). No real death penalties which kinda sucks, but you can control keeps and objectives, take over a city, there is "raids" and small group instances. Its Fantasy based so no spaceships though.
As for Mythic. They don't lie to their customers and they admit when they are wrong. They do however suck at class balance, but in the end I have never felt "cheated" by them for something. They have done things I Don't agree with but you usually get a couple of months notice before they make any large scale changes. |
AZZJACK BLACK
Noob Mercs
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 17:23:00 -
[3660]
Well, I HAD a miner account, a builder account and a fighter account. Sometimes i got bored mining and set a long training and let him sleep. Well i guess i will combine my accounts now... Your loss ccp.
I can deal with my miner where he is now.. and my gank man too :)
|
|
Random5154
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 17:24:00 -
[3661]
Originally by: Lydia Bennet You obviously have a better grasp of these economics than I do, so explain this to me:
I have 5 accounts, of which an average of 3 (probably a bit over that, tbh) are open at any given time.
With GT gone, I will be closing permanently 4 of those 5 accounts, leaving exactly one that is open all the time.
Now how exactly does CCP make MORE money out of this?
Because CCP has the numbers of people that quit, and maybe for every 10 of you that make these threats, 1 follows through and after a few weeks comes back?
I've read a lot of threads about people quitting. Then I look at eve-offline and check the number of people logged on, and the numbers to continue to grow.
Maybe I misunderstand economics, but if reality is subscribers continue to grow, and if changes are made that more of those subscribers are paying subscribers, I think that means MORE money. But maybe you will be that 1 out of 10 people, and those 4 accounts out of 40,000 will be the straw that breaks the camel's back. |
Seth Ruin
Minmatar Ominous Corp Ethereal Dawn
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 17:24:00 -
[3662]
Originally by: Random5154
Originally by: Erimisha
THAT is the topic at hand. Not so much 'Ghost training' itself, but the ineptitude of how CCP managed to break the news and the constant changing subterfuge and subsequent coverup.
THAT is the reason I have cancelled my accounts.
...
I have the $'s to pay for the accounts, not the time. You have the time, not the $'s. Which do you think CCP prefers?
Congratulations for completely failing at reading comprehension. He mentioned nothing about not having the income for EVE. He mentioned the lie after lie that CCP has fed us since they first announced this. |
Mhaerdirne Solveig
Minmatar
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 17:24:00 -
[3663]
Edited by: Mhaerdirne Solveig on 15/10/2008 17:24:34
Originally by: Random5154
Look, if you have played EVE for 2 years and are cancelling your account over that, then OK. I bet 1 ISK that once you cool off you'll reactivate, probably even before the subscription ends.
this is a dumb bet, matching a terrible post, made by a person who truly does not understand the situation |
Max Khaos
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Posted - 2008.10.15 17:28:00 -
[3664]
Edited by: Max Khaos on 15/10/2008 17:29:40
All we need now is CCP to delete inactive accounts after 6 months
and I'll be very happy
Maybe then any new characters will be able to have name that isn't already taken / moth-balled from 2004.
Good on you CCP .... Clean out the trash. |
Doran NL
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Posted - 2008.10.15 17:30:00 -
[3665]
180 post although this thread is hidden respect :)
This will offcourse will not change anything
|
James Marshalll
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.10.15 17:30:00 -
[3666]
Originally by: Random5154
Because CCP has the numbers of people that quit, and maybe for every 10 of you that make these threats, 1 follows through and after a few weeks comes back?
I've read a lot of threads about people quitting. Then I look at eve-offline and check the number of people logged on, and the numbers to continue to grow.
Maybe I misunderstand economics, but if reality is subscribers continue to grow, and if changes are made that more of those subscribers are paying subscribers, I think that means MORE money. But maybe you will be that 1 out of 10 people, and those 4 accounts out of 40,000 will be the straw that breaks the camel's back.
although I agree 1 out of 10 will really quit, ill explain to you why you are wrong for looking at eve-offline for verification of who really quit.
Most people don't have their subscriptions ending today or tomorrow. People like myself who did really cancel still have subs until Dec and one until Apr. I am going to keep playing until they run out. Why? Because I want my monies worth. I figure screw it, if I paid for it might as well use it instead of starting up another game and having to pay for 2 games. But you can bet your bottom dollar if this change is not reversed by Apr ccp will have lost 3 accounts from me for good. So for CCP to really understand the impact of this, they would need to look at accounts canceled since yesterday, not how many active players are on the server. |
Erimisha
Minmatar
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 17:32:00 -
[3667]
Originally by: Random5154
Look, if you have played EVE for 2 years and are cancelling your account over that, then OK. I bet 1 ISK that once you cool off you'll reactivate, probably even before the subscription ends.
I have 3 accounts. One was already inactive while I waited for GTC prices to come back down to something reasonable. I have no reason to reactivate that account anymore.
This account is paid for until Nov 3. I will log on until then to finish my manufacturing jobs and take down my high sec POS.
My 'main' account is Caliwyrm O'Libr and is paid for until Dec 23 I think.
Unless something VERY drastic happens (like CCP brings back 30 and 90d GTCs after showing they listen to their customers and bring back ghost training) I'm gone. Even if CCP meets my personal list of 'demands' I'll likely just move my 'mains' all onto 1 account. In the end I guess I should *thank* CCP for helping me realize how much money I spent on such an intangible hobby.
Add me to your address book and see if I log on after Nov 3 and Dec 23 respectively. |
Random5154
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 17:33:00 -
[3668]
Edited by: Random5154 on 15/10/2008 17:38:39
Originally by: James Marshalll although I agree 1 out of 10 will really quit, ill explain to you why you are wrong for looking at eve-offline for verification of who really quit.
Most people don't have their subscriptions ending today or tomorrow. People like myself who did really cancel still have subs until Dec and one until Apr. I am going to keep playing until they run out. Why? Because I want my monies worth. I figure screw it, if I paid for it might as well use it instead of starting up another game and having to pay for 2 games. But you can bet your bottom dollar if this change is not reversed by Apr ccp will have lost 3 accounts from me for good. So for CCP to really understand the impact of this, they would need to look at accounts canceled since yesterday, not how many active players are on the server.
Well, the tracking goes all the back for many years. I'll eagerly await this gradual dip over the next year. Or maybe after 1 out of 10 quits, and more people join, that line won't move so much overall.
Also, just because you cancelled your subscription doesn't mean those people won't reinitiate it before the account actually expires. Cancelling means nothing, what really matters is how many put their money back in their pockets and truly stop paying to play once that subscription expires.
And yes, looking at eve-offline over a period of time is actually a very fair reflection of trends. One that I am sure CCP monitors very closely. |
Random5154
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 17:36:00 -
[3669]
Originally by: Seth Ruin Congratulations for completely failing at reading comprehension. He mentioned nothing about not having the income for EVE. He mentioned the lie after lie that CCP has fed us since they first announced this.
And congratulations for failing at reading comprehension too. My first paragraph spoke directly about his quitting over a lie. The remainder of my post addressed the majority that are too used to having free training, are openly saying that this is greed ($'s), and how they are going to either consolidate or quit because they do not wish to pay those $'s, and hence the final statement.
If you are quitting over a lie, cool. Emo rage quit after investing 2 years of your time. As I said, if this really works you up that much, you have lived a far too sheltered life, because this really does make business sense from CCP. |
James Marshalll
Gallente
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 17:38:00 -
[3670]
Originally by: Random5154
Originally by: James Marshalll although I agree 1 out of 10 will really quit, ill explain to you why you are wrong for looking at eve-offline for verification of who really quit.
Most people don't have their subscriptions ending today or tomorrow. People like myself who did really cancel still have subs until Dec and one until Apr. I am going to keep playing until they run out. Why? Because I want my monies worth. I figure screw it, if I paid for it might as well use it instead of starting up another game and having to pay for 2 games. But you can bet your bottom dollar if this change is not reversed by Apr ccp will have lost 3 accounts from me for good. So for CCP to really understand the impact of this, they would need to look at accounts canceled since yesterday, not how many active players are on the server.
Well, the tracking goes all the back for many years. I'll eagerly await this gradual dip over the next year. Or maybe after 1 out of 10 quits, and more people join, that line won't move so much overall.
You might be right, I mean look at the bob / CCP scandal they had more subs after then before.
The difference will be now that more and more games are coming out that are going to take away from the niche that CCP has with eve. Either way, people if they are really upset, need to stop being hot air blowing mouth pieces and really cancel their accounts if they are mad. The only way CCP is going to learn is by hitting them where it hits most, in the pocket. But you and I both know only a few of those who are upset, like myself, will really quit and never give it a second thought. Thats unfortunate because the only way a company learns its mistakes is by losing its revenue |
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Charoline De'Lanari
Native Freshfood
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Posted - 2008.10.15 17:40:00 -
[3671]
According to the Revelations Patch notes way back in history CCP applied a fix to the china server (Serenity) for this "bug", if this was a "bug", then why wasn't this done on Tranq at the same time?
I find this lag of time disturbing, especially conssdiering the rationale behind this fix now...
|
Seth Ruin
Minmatar Ominous Corp Ethereal Dawn
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Posted - 2008.10.15 17:42:00 -
[3672]
Originally by: Random5154 because this really does make business sense from CCP.
I don't understand why people keep assuming the outrage has anything to do with business or money.
THE OUTRAGE IS HOW IT WAS HANDLED
Had they out and out said "We need to do this because it makes business sense" from the start, it wouldn't have escalated. |
Random5154
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 17:42:00 -
[3673]
Originally by: James Marshalll You might be right, I mean look at the bob / CCP scandal they had more subs after then before.
The difference will be now that more and more games are coming out that are going to take away from the niche that CCP has with eve. Either way, people if they are really upset, need to stop being hot air blowing mouth pieces and really cancel their accounts if they are mad. The only way CCP is going to learn is by hitting them where it hits most, in the pocket. But you and I both know only a few of those who are upset, like myself, will really quit and never give it a second thought. Thats unfortunate because the only way a company learns its mistakes is by losing its revenue
And that's the crunch unfortunately. When something better comes out, people will me regardless of what CCP does. Most people only have time to play 1 MMO seriously, and right now EVE is a niche product. If Jumpgate Evolution, or Infinity, or something else came along that was truly better, then people would move.
Otherwise people will quit, go to other MMOs that exist, explore new games, and unless something takes their fancy, they will come back. And during that time you'll forget why you were upset, and continue on.
The speed nerf upsets me, mostly because I fly Minmatar recons and the web changes suck, but until there is something better to invest my $'s and time into, I don't really have a choice unless I stop playing MMO's altogether. |
Erimisha
Minmatar
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 17:42:00 -
[3674]
Originally by: Random5154
If you are quitting over a lie, cool. Emo rage quit after investing 2 years of your time. As I said, if this really works you up that much, you have lived a far too sheltered life, because this really does make business sense from CCP.
So you've never boycotted (as in refused to give money to) a business that treated you in a way you didn't like?
You act like this is the first time CCP has created such a controversy and acted in the same way (mass deletions, mass locked posts, totally ignoring the players). I left for probably 7-8 months after how CCP handled the t20 fiasco. I dind't leave over the T2 BPOs themselves. I left over how CCP handled it.
After a while I read and believed their placations (the formation of an internal investigation team, etc), hoped they learned their lesson and came back.
It seems I was wrong since they are doing the same exact things this time. To me there are issues at work here much greater than ghost training. |
Veng3ance
Multiversal Enterprise Inc. Cry Havoc.
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 17:43:00 -
[3675]
Are you guys serious? You do realize most people come back to eve after breaks for this exact reason.
Say goodbye to bringing back customers! |
Random5154
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Posted - 2008.10.15 17:44:00 -
[3676]
Originally by: Seth Ruin I don't understand why people keep assuming the outrage has anything to do with business or money.
THE OUTRAGE IS HOW IT WAS HANDLED
Had they out and out said "We need to do this because it makes business sense" from the start, it wouldn't have escalated.
And this is where I am calling you out. I don't believe this for a second. As I wrote before, I think people are latching onto whatever they can to jump and and down and complain. If you are jumping up and down because CCP didn't tell you what is already obvious, then I couldn't care if you quit over emo rage. They have handled many changes poorly, from BPOs, to getting feedback on speed changes that they ignore, to GTC changes, to this. Just quit already. |
Marius Duvall
Amarr Merch Industrial GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 17:47:00 -
[3677]
Originally by: Grimnir Edited by: Grimnir on 15/10/2008 17:12:28
Originally by: Lana Ground anyone know what the new warhammer MMO is like??? might go and buy that and see what they're DEVS and GM's are like...actually someone tell me some half decent MMO's
-2
Put it this way, War is lagged to hell and there are *NO* official forums. Way to save on moderators *gg*
But if you have a DAOC account you can get a free hat or something ... Trust me EVE is the best MMO out there, regardless of what you think of its staff. This whole situation doesn't affect the gameplay in anyway, other then making it less laggy for all the folks who've not ragequit :)
This post? Pretty much a total lie. (Ok, there are no official forums, but who can ****ing blame them?)
WAR's performance is leaps and bounds above Eve's in large, concentrated battles (witness the 300 or so people that just sacked Altdorf on the Averheim server) |
Lag
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Posted - 2008.10.15 17:49:00 -
[3678]
Originally by: Lana Ground anyone know what the new warhammer MMO is like??? might go and buy that and see what they're DEVS and GM's are like...actually someone tell me some half decent MMO's
-2
Warhammer online is awesome. I dont get any lag and play on Medium-High population servers. Never bothered looking for forums for it, but I have ran across a fairly large forums on a fansite (Warhammer Alliance)
|
Random5154
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 17:49:00 -
[3679]
Originally by: Erimisha So you've never boycotted (as in refused to give money to) a business that treated you in a way you didn't like?
Wait, have I never boycotted an internet company because of how they treated me? Are you serious? They provide a game service, which is available 23 hours a day, for my money. I know what I'm paying for, and they deliver that said service. If they failed on that service, I would boycott. Now, would I spite myself because they made a change that made sense, but was communicated poorly, no. I look the the substance of the change, not the form.
Originally by: Erimisha You act like this is the first time CCP has created such a controversy and acted in the same way (mass deletions, mass locked posts, totally ignoring the players). I left for probably 7-8 months after how CCP handled the t20 fiasco. I dind't leave over the T2 BPOs themselves. I left over how CCP handled it.
And you came back. And CCP sees people come back, and numbers continue to grow. It's just a game, pay to play and have fun. Who cares how they handled it, seriously? What are you paying them for, to having a second job of monitoring their PR? |
Eddie SatanGhost
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Posted - 2008.10.15 17:51:00 -
[3680]
Unintended bug??? LMFAO but better this than raising the monthly fees... THAT would deactivate my 2 permanently active accounts! |
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Rramar Claime
Amarr Task Force Zener Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2008.10.15 17:51:00 -
[3681]
Originally by: Levenson
Originally by: Jinx Barker
Please. CCp Developers used this "feature" to show the world on how "flexible" EVE is for an average person. That it is not necessary to worry about lapsed accounts, and one can always come back to something special.
Jut do a little research and look at interviews by Oveur, and, forget his name, the CEO of CCP, and many, many other developers, have al;ways insisted this was a feature and sign of flexibility of EVE Online.
What is happening now is a called a MONEY GRAB. Which makes me nervous, since in many respects a MONEY GRAB in corporations usually comes ahead of some severe financial trouble, and usually, the MONEY GRABs do not work for the corporations because their customers will only make their financial situation worse by leaving.
This is usually what happens:
1) Money GRAB 2) Short-Term Liquidity Achieved 3) Customer base starts to leave 4) Problems they thought will be alleviated by the "money grab" get worse.
I will watch with some fascination as to what is going to happen next.
^^^^ CCP! Read this attentively!
113 pages, way to go ccp hope you see now how good a decision this was |
Tanya Stritner
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 17:52:00 -
[3682]
Originally by: Random5154
Originally by: Erimisha So you've never boycotted (as in refused to give money to) a business that treated you in a way you didn't like?
Wait, have I never boycotted an internet company because of how they treated me? Are you serious? They provide a game service, which is available 23 hours a day, for my money. I know what I'm paying for, and they deliver that said service. If they failed on that service, I would boycott. Now, would I spite myself because they made a change that made sense, but was communicated poorly, no. I look the the substance of the change, not the form.
Originally by: Erimisha You act like this is the first time CCP has created such a controversy and acted in the same way (mass deletions, mass locked posts, totally ignoring the players). I left for probably 7-8 months after how CCP handled the t20 fiasco. I dind't leave over the T2 BPOs themselves. I left over how CCP handled it.
And you came back. And CCP sees people come back, and numbers continue to grow. It's just a game, pay to play and have fun. Who cares how they handled it, seriously? What are you paying them for, to having a second job of monitoring their PR?
Numbers are not Growing!
People are leaving every day. There were 45.000 players online in May, now only 38.000 max.
|
Kheldon Fel
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 17:53:00 -
[3683]
Originally by: Random5154
Originally by: Erimisha So you've never boycotted (as in refused to give money to) a business that treated you in a way you didn't like?
Wait, have I never boycotted an internet company because of how they treated me? Are you serious? They provide a game service, which is available 23 hours a day, for my money. I know what I'm paying for, and they deliver that said service. If they failed on that service, I would boycott. Now, would I spite myself because they made a change that made sense, but was communicated poorly, no. I look the the substance of the change, not the form.
Originally by: Erimisha You act like this is the first time CCP has created such a controversy and acted in the same way (mass deletions, mass locked posts, totally ignoring the players). I left for probably 7-8 months after how CCP handled the t20 fiasco. I dind't leave over the T2 BPOs themselves. I left over how CCP handled it.
And you came back. And CCP sees people come back, and numbers continue to grow. It's just a game, pay to play and have fun. Who cares how they handled it, seriously? What are you paying them for, to having a second job of monitoring their PR?
You don't care if a company shits all over you?
Some of us have higher standards. |
10of10
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Posted - 2008.10.15 17:54:00 -
[3684]
Originally by: 10of10 CCP SAY SOMETHING [/quote
We are waiting ??????????? You know your devoted customers.. |
Khan Soriano
Beyond Divinity Inc
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 17:54:00 -
[3685]
It must be really hard time for CCP, to "fix" this bug after 5-6 years. I can't say that I'm surprised but I do feel that it's the wrong thing to do right now.
Couple of reasons why they do it:
- CCP has to maintain itself - pay salaries, bonuses, office costs etc.
- Pay for the merger with White Wolf (they might as well be maintaining them too, don't know how's business in that area) - mergers COST, consultants, reorganization, all of it and it also takes time
- Maintain their TQ/Sing/etc. servers
- Maintain their China servers/support/whatever (I don't think that it pays for itself)
- Pay for development of their new MMO with White Wolf (I haven't heard anything about it being canceled so I assume its still in production)
- Pay for promotion (just look at all those banners on gamer sites)
- Despite paying for all the above, most of that was probably decided in the 'Golden age' when EVE was expanding their playerbase like crazy, their amount of subscriptions failed to increase in the same dramatic rate later on (look at how simultaneous users records were once beaten every week but later not so much)
- Global economy slowing down - Iceland going bankrupt doesn't have anything to do with CCP they get most of their money from overseas anyway (it might help them actually) but when people overseas start to look for a way to cut their monthly spending, paying for a MMO isn't high on the list
That's why killing ghost training happened, if you believe otherwise you are mistaken: "strain on the database"(too stupid to even dignify it with a comment), "unfair for paying customers"(it was "unfair" for 6 years but now it won't be? I am a paying customer and I was ghost training how is THAT unfair to me???).
Couple of reasons why doing it, can kick them in the nuts:
- People will still quit, stop paying for a while, get bored (ambulation anyone?) - now even more so because they don't have the ability to put off paying and then they might decide there is nothing to get back to
- People get angry when you take from them something they got accustomed to so these people will also quit
- You still have to pay the bills. So if this "fantastic" decisions were incorrect the situation will only get worse than before the crisis that created the need to make them
|
Venezia Dawn
Caldari The VD Clinic Violent-Tendencies
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Posted - 2008.10.15 17:58:00 -
[3686]
Originally by: Aikhiko Somotho
Originally by: Venezia Dawn So...I had a plan for this character that was going to go for another year or so, but with no ability to rotate my accounts, that plan has been shortened to 3-4 months.
Change was supposed to be implemented today, so I reactivated the account only to find that she was still training.
Did I miss something where this patch was deployed but wasn't going to actually cut off skills for a while?
If so, oh well, I didn't have time to read 100+ pages, but if not...then what's the deal?
It doesn't "pause" the training as you would. It just sets SP/hour to 0, so the moment you resubscribe it can continue...
No...EVE didn't restart my skill training for me after I reactivated. EVE has never started a skill for me, I've always had to tell it to train myself.
My point is that I reactivated b/c CCP told us our skills were no longer going to be training after this morning, and my skill was still training before I started a skill myself. Obviously, CCP had not cut off the training on my inactive account yet. So the question is, when are the inactive accounts actually going to stop training? |
ghost st
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Posted - 2008.10.15 18:00:00 -
[3687]
With this CCP should at least give us the full time we are paying for, that means either a skill queue, or some being able to store time spent not training skills.
There should also be a 'leeway' period in which training doesn't stop, even after an account run out on time. (maybe a day or so) so those of us that have to mess with ccps horrible payment system get time to send in our petitions |
Corrock
Minmatar SUBLIME L.L.C. SUBLIME CREATIONS ALLIANCE
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Posted - 2008.10.15 18:01:00 -
[3688]
I can see why, if you were taking advantage of this "feature" you'd be ****ed, but there are a lot of people with more than one active account who pay continuously, myself included, so why should some people get to train for free? |
Chomin H'ak
The Trivenerate
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 18:01:00 -
[3689]
Originally by: CCP t0rfifrans The bug that became a feature
On Monday, we released news that we are disabling äGhost Trainingô, the ability to train characters on inactive accounts. This resulted in strong reactions from the community as many people were routinely making use of it.
No, it garnered a strong reaction because you're doing it wrong.
Originally by: CCP t0rfifrans We explained the matter in more detail and pointed out that this had been a bug in the original game code.
Lie.
Originally by: CCP t0rfifrans Those of us who were involved in the process of making the decision and communicating it to the community did not realize this bug had been so accepted as a feature that it was listed as such in our own documentation on our own website.
From day 1? Didn't know? Then why was it in your manual?
Originally by: CCP t0rfifrans How can we not know whatæs in our own documentation? Well, to be frank, it was a case of insufficient communication on our part between various teams û a regrettable mistake and hard lesson to learn at the expense of the trust youæve placed in us.
Insufficient communication? Lame, real lame. I believe the term you're looking for is 'greed'
Originally by: CCP t0rfifrans Thereæs no way to spin it and we wonæt add insult to injury by trying to do so.
hanh? Like hell you didn't?
Bug... spin Lag... spin snowflakes... donnoe, but phail
Originally by: CCP t0rfifrans It was a mistake on our part and for that we sincerely and humbly apologize.
Seriously? Not good enough. I accepted the apology for T20, with the expectation that that type of debacle would not occur again.
Originally by: CCP t0rfifrans Many would hope that in light of this we will decide not to cancel ghost training and keep it active as an option but weære cannot to do that.
Cause you suck.
Originally by: CCP t0rfifrans EVE is already one-of-a-kind in allowing players to progress their characters through offline skill training.
You for got to add (this is all subject to change)
Originally by: CCP t0rfifrans We stand by our policy that if you want your character to progress in EVE, you should pay the subscription fee.
You have to pay to ghost train... fail.
Originally by: CCP t0rfifrans The fact that so many people have been able to do so for several years was our own oversight.
And no one at CCP ghost trained? RIGHT!
Originally by: CCP t0rfifrans We know this change, and our misstep in telling you about it, has created some discontent and we hope that over time we can prove our committment to make EVE better than ever for you will be evident as you enjoy the fruits of our labor.
I'm not eating your *ahem* fruit anymore. I've been eating it for awhile now, and frankly, I'm full.
One and only account - Terminated effective 10/18/08
Bye EVE, I really had alot of fun with the players. Thanks for playing with me. (Wow, that sounds ghey)
H'ak |
Scar Spice
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 18:01:00 -
[3690]
So far I have 3 petitions to close accounts I've consolidated.
Read my post history to see my list of petitions.
Money talks - BS walk!
Scar |
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Big Al
Stoat's Ultimate Carebear Adventure
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 18:01:00 -
[3691]
Originally by: Random5154
Because CCP has the numbers of people that quit, and maybe for every 10 of you that make these threats, 1 follows through and after a few weeks comes back?
I've read a lot of threads about people quitting. Then I look at eve-offline and check the number of people logged on, and the numbers to continue to grow.
MSU means nothing in terms of subscibers, before CCP hiked GTC costs I had 5-6 accounts active at any given time. I haven't played eve in like 2-3 years. After the GTC changes I had maybe 2-3 active at any given time. After this change I will have only 1 account.
If you want to make the MSU argument though, let's compare today vs 1 year ago. WOW NO INCREASE IN MSU, WHAT A GREAT GROWING GAME. Oh wait, the near exponential rise in subscribers is due soley to alt accounts which will now be ending.
People who have only 1-2 accounts will probably not quit (less will quit than those who do not). The real losses will be from people that have 3 or more, of which there are many. |
Seth Ruin
Minmatar Ominous Corp Ethereal Dawn
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 18:02:00 -
[3692]
Originally by: Venezia Dawn My point is that I reactivated b/c CCP told us our skills were no longer going to be training after this morning, and my skill was still training before I started a skill myself. Obviously, CCP had not cut off the training on my inactive account yet.
Bug report it?
Or CCP's pulling the biggest "lol you all are so gullible" in history. |
Lydia Bennet
Caldari Alloyed Tritanium Bar And Grill
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 18:06:00 -
[3693]
Originally by: Random5154 Because CCP has the numbers of people that quit, and maybe for every 10 of you that make these threats, 1 follows through and after a few weeks comes back?
Nice strawman there. I said nothing about quitting. In fact, I said I keep 1 account open. That is the opposite of quitting.
Quote: I've read a lot of threads about people quitting. Then I look at eve-offline and check the number of people logged on, and the numbers to continue to grow.
That's strange, since other people in this very thread say the numbers have dropped significantly from, say, last spring.
Quote: Maybe I misunderstand economics, but if reality is subscribers continue to grow, and if changes are made that more of those subscribers are paying subscribers, I think that means MORE money.
If number of subscribers continues to grow but I close 4 of my 5 accounts, then CCP is making less money than if number of subscribers continued to grow and I had 3-3.5 of my accounts open, on average. So eyes, you misunderstand economics. |
Highwind Cid
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Posted - 2008.10.15 18:07:00 -
[3694]
Edited by: Highwind Cid on 15/10/2008 18:10:10 Edited by: Highwind Cid on 15/10/2008 18:08:01
Originally by: Lana Ground anyone know what the new warhammer MMO is like??? might go and buy that and see what they're DEVS and GM's are like...actually someone tell me some half decent MMO's
-2
I've played Eve since mid Feburary. I've played Warhammer Online for the past couple of weeks. I must say I've had just as much fun in the past two weeks ( if not more) in warhammer than in the past nine months in eve. Not saying it will be the same for you since we are all different. But for a generalized opinion in comparison to other MMO's its pretty damn fun.
It's focus is on PvP which is fun, I think the peak of it is RvR, which feels like roaming in 0.0 sec and then there is the Keep sieges which is like a POS siege but with boring removed and much fast paced action added.
Skills. For the most part you don't slam the same exact skill over and over (like I have seen people do when watching a WoW raid...ZZzzzZz) In PvE I do come close to doing the same exact combo's but in PvP/RvR I use a lot of my skills depending what needs to be done. I thought that was pretty cool.
It's worth a shot if you've dealt with Eve this long. |
Traidor Disloyal
Maximum Yarrage
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Posted - 2008.10.15 18:09:00 -
[3695]
Originally by: D4RT N3RDiUS
Quote: Less people playing the game then we have less lag. And I don't mean you
is a wrong aseveration becouse for ccpis lees incoming and not rith now but in one near furute if the ppl who are leaving are enougth they dont cant suport their fancy servers becouse they are too xpensive to deal with.. so if ppl leave allways is a bad news for ccp not for you mate you can play till ccp says we are broken and can suport the game..
again this thing was totaly avoidable if ccp was sincere and says one of our mayor investemens was the banck who broke in icelandic so we need more incoming if you chec in the ccp page check de investment areas.. sry but this is the only truth and they cant handle that
I think you disagree with what I wrote but I'm not really sure. |
Cyxopyc
The Dead Parrot Shoppe Inc.
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 18:09:00 -
[3696]
Edited by: Cyxopyc on 15/10/2008 18:09:50
Originally by: Venezia Dawn
My point is that I reactivated b/c CCP told us our skills were no longer going to be training after this morning, and my skill was still training before I started a skill myself. Obviously, CCP had not cut off the training on my inactive account yet. So the question is, when are the inactive accounts actually going to stop training?
I haven't heard details but I would assume one of two things is now true:
1) Any account that becomes inactive on or after October 15 2008 will stop training. Accounts that went inactive before this would finish training skills. 2) Any account that currently is inactive or becomes inactive on or after October 15 2008 stops training.
My guess is since this change was announced shortly before it was implemented #1 is true, not #2. - I could really use a skill queue please
|
Silvia t'Nias
Paramilitary Skanks
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 18:10:00 -
[3697]
Originally by: Corrock I can see why, if you were taking advantage of this "feature" you'd be ****ed, but there are a lot of people with more than one active account who pay continuously, myself included, so why should some people get to train for free?
Everybody got to train for free, some people just didn't want to take advantage of the offer. |
IntegralHellsing
Gallente Romantic Devastator Resurgency
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 18:10:00 -
[3698]
1. a bug that lasted for 5 years? Seriously, if it was so called BUG why did it take so long?
2. CCP, you're nothing more than any Korean online game companies that don't care about players. all you care about is money. I miss the days when CCP cared so much about players. But now you've gone so low as to think of us players as money makers. Your attitude is just like any Korean online game companies. Now you don't deserve to be the creator of world's best game. |
Deathcore
Caldari Synthetic Frontiers
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 18:14:00 -
[3699]
Originally by: Rramar Claime
Originally by: Levenson
Originally by: Jinx Barker
Please. CCp Developers used this "feature" to show the world on how "flexible" EVE is for an average person. That it is not necessary to worry about lapsed accounts, and one can always come back to something special.
Jut do a little research and look at interviews by Oveur, and, forget his name, the CEO of CCP, and many, many other developers, have al;ways insisted this was a feature and sign of flexibility of EVE Online.
What is happening now is a called a MONEY GRAB. Which makes me nervous, since in many respects a MONEY GRAB in corporations usually comes ahead of some severe financial trouble, and usually, the MONEY GRABs do not work for the corporations because their customers will only make their financial situation worse by leaving.
This is usually what happens:
1) Money GRAB 2) Short-Term Liquidity Achieved 3) Customer base starts to leave 4) Problems they thought will be alleviated by the "money grab" get worse.
I will watch with some fascination as to what is going to happen next.
^^^^ CCP! Read this attentively!
113 pages, way to go ccp hope you see now how good a decision this was
Have you not heard how Icelands economy is F***** at best ? The Country almost went bankrupt FFS, Chill the hell out, i used ghost training and found it awesome, would you rather not have an EVE to come back to after the nerd rage?
Aslong as CCP don't contine "MONEY GRABBING" for ages to come, i don't see a problem.
Stop *****in', In the end EVE = Better then No EVE |
Doc Fury
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 18:14:00 -
[3700]
@CCP, there is an old saying that applies here:
"Don't **** down my back and tell me it's raining."
|
|
Tae'Lin Hynd
Simply Planned
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 18:16:00 -
[3701]
Originally by: IntegralHellsing 1. a bug that lasted for 5 years? Seriously, if it was so called BUG why did it take so long?
2. CCP, you're nothing more than any Korean online game companies that don't care about players. all you care about is money. I miss the days when CCP cared so much about players. But now you've gone so low as to think of us players as money makers. Your attitude is just like any Korean online game companies. Now you don't deserve to be the creator of world's best game.
***next in the news***
EvE skill point modifiers now on sale at the item mall
Also stop in for our special on Tier 2 BS of any race for 3.99$
Stop into my store and pick up your new Ghey ass hat..only 0.75c |
Remlin
Caldari Viper Intel Squad Sons of Tangra
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 18:16:00 -
[3702]
Dear CCP you taketh, now it's time to giveth and return some semblance of balance ...
"Skill Training Que" |
Hammeroffire
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 18:17:00 -
[3703]
Originally by: Rramar Claime
Originally by: Levenson
Originally by: Jinx Barker
Please. CCp Developers used this "feature" to show the world on how "flexible" EVE is for an average person. That it is not necessary to worry about lapsed accounts, and one can always come back to something special.
Jut do a little research and look at interviews by Oveur, and, forget his name, the CEO of CCP, and many, many other developers, have al;ways insisted this was a feature and sign of flexibility of EVE Online.
What is happening now is a called a MONEY GRAB. Which makes me nervous, since in many respects a MONEY GRAB in corporations usually comes ahead of some severe financial trouble, and usually, the MONEY GRABs do not work for the corporations because their customers will only make their financial situation worse by leaving.
This is usually what happens:
1) Money GRAB 2) Short-Term Liquidity Achieved 3) Customer base starts to leave 4) Problems they thought will be alleviated by the "money grab" get worse.
I will watch with some fascination as to what is going to happen next.
^^^^ CCP! Read this attentively!
113 pages, way to go ccp hope you see now how good a decision this was
Wow guys, over 150 pages of negative responces [including the original responces, which were at a higher rate of responce] and you're still going through with it?
You guys must think your game is unique and completley undistinguishable from all other games with this change. |
MuffinsRevenger
EmpiresMod
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 18:18:00 -
[3704]
Sup CCP, you designed the game with long waits in mind, kindly reward us returning players by allowing those long waits while we are afk not to be waiting for us when we go back
Also, probobly suspending a few acc's or not reactivating a few that i would otherwise have becouse of it |
Tae'Lin Hynd
Simply Planned
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 18:19:00 -
[3705]
Originally by: Hammeroffire
Originally by: Rramar Claime
Originally by: Levenson
Originally by: Jinx Barker
Please. CCp Developers used this "feature" to show the world on how "flexible" EVE is for an average person. That it is not necessary to worry about lapsed accounts, and one can always come back to something special.
Jut do a little research and look at interviews by Oveur, and, forget his name, the CEO of CCP, and many, many other developers, have al;ways insisted this was a feature and sign of flexibility of EVE Online.
What is happening now is a called a MONEY GRAB. Which makes me nervous, since in many respects a MONEY GRAB in corporations usually comes ahead of some severe financial trouble, and usually, the MONEY GRABs do not work for the corporations because their customers will only make their financial situation worse by leaving.
This is usually what happens:
1) Money GRAB 2) Short-Term Liquidity Achieved 3) Customer base starts to leave 4) Problems they thought will be alleviated by the "money grab" get worse.
I will watch with some fascination as to what is going to happen next.
^^^^ CCP! Read this attentively!
113 pages, way to go ccp hope you see now how good a decision this was
Wow guys, over 150 pages of negative responces [including the original responces, which were at a higher rate of responce] and you're still going through with it?
You guys must think your game is unique and completley undistinguishable from all other games with this change.
Nah, they just moving up in the non existant PR world
SCREAMS AT DEAF EARS!!! |
Sahara Eternity
Amarr Imperial Academy
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 18:21:00 -
[3706]
Originally by: Chomin H'ak
Originally by: CCP t0rfifrans The fact that so many people have been able to do so for several years was our own oversight.
And no one at CCP ghost trained? RIGHT!
M8, aldo I posted before and im 100% agree with the smashing majority of this posters, here you are sadly mistaken. Why ? Simple: Employees and GM do not pay neither for their admin account, neither for their normal character/characters due to the work they perform We are talking about hundreds perhaps even thousands of characters here. They don't need to "ghost train" . Just a thought ... |
Tae'Lin Hynd
Simply Planned
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 18:23:00 -
[3707]
Originally by: Sahara Eternity
Originally by: Chomin H'ak
Originally by: CCP t0rfifrans The fact that so many people have been able to do so for several years was our own oversight.
And no one at CCP ghost trained? RIGHT!
M8, aldo I posted before and im 100% agree with the smashing majority of this posters, here you are sadly mistaken. Why ? Simple: Employees and GM do not pay neither for their admin account, neither for their normal character/characters due to the work they perform We are talking about hundreds perhaps even thousands of characters here. They don't need to "ghost train" . Just a thought ...
Wonder how many they sold for isk in hopes of raising GTC sells??
75mil + SP anyone?!?
HA |
Hammeroffire
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 18:25:00 -
[3708]
Originally by: Deathcore
Originally by: Rramar Claime
Originally by: Levenson
Originally by: Jinx Barker
Please. CCp Developers used this "feature" to show the world on how "flexible" EVE is for an average person. That it is not necessary to worry about lapsed accounts, and one can always come back to something special.
Jut do a little research and look at interviews by Oveur, and, forget his name, the CEO of CCP, and many, many other developers, have al;ways insisted this was a feature and sign of flexibility of EVE Online.
What is happening now is a called a MONEY GRAB. Which makes me nervous, since in many respects a MONEY GRAB in corporations usually comes ahead of some severe financial trouble, and usually, the MONEY GRABs do not work for the corporations because their customers will only make their financial situation worse by leaving.
This is usually what happens:
1) Money GRAB 2) Short-Term Liquidity Achieved 3) Customer base starts to leave 4) Problems they thought will be alleviated by the "money grab" get worse.
I will watch with some fascination as to what is going to happen next.
^^^^ CCP! Read this attentively!
113 pages, way to go ccp hope you see now how good a decision this was
Have you not heard how Icelands economy is F***** at best ? The Country almost went bankrupt FFS, Chill the hell out, i used ghost training and found it awesome, would you rather not have an EVE to come back to after the nerd rage?
Aslong as CCP don't contine "MONEY GRABBING" for ages to come, i don't see a problem.
Stop *****in', In the end EVE = Better then No EVE
You don't see a problem *****h? I'm sorry, But the fact is they're removing a feature of their game for money. Basically this means, Next up will be to remove the "bug" of things like "offline training" because people were having an "unfair disadvantage" from it.
Or maybe it'll end up like other people were saying, Like any general Asian MMO where you pay for items with money to get an advantage over other players... oh wait, they do that here too? and this is the fourth money grab in a line of money grabs? if we don't take a stand, or at least complain, this will end up being a game where everything is sold in USD or Euro's. So yeah motherfck'r, there's a problem. |
IntegralHellsing
Gallente Romantic Devastator Resurgency
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 18:25:00 -
[3709]
Originally by: Tae'Lin Hynd
Originally by: IntegralHellsing 1. a bug that lasted for 5 years? Seriously, if it was so called BUG why did it take so long?
2. CCP, you're nothing more than any Korean online game companies that don't care about players. all you care about is money. I miss the days when CCP cared so much about players. But now you've gone so low as to think of us players as money makers. Your attitude is just like any Korean online game companies. Now you don't deserve to be the creator of world's best game.
***next in the news***
EvE skill point modifiers now on sale at the item mall
Also stop in for our special on Tier 2 BS of any race for 3.99$
Stop into my store and pick up your new Ghey ass hat..only 0.75c
double skill training item! faster skill training item! modules! ships! even charges! implants! and many more!
seriously, we koreans always joked that if CCP were ever to be ghey like korean online game companies, they'd add those features as well. |
Chomin H'ak
The Trivenerate
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 18:26:00 -
[3710]
Originally by: Deathcore Have you not heard how Icelands economy is F***** at best ? The Country almost went bankrupt FFS, Chill the hell out, i used ghost training and found it awesome, would you rather not have an EVE to come back to after the nerd rage?
Aslong as CCP don't contine "MONEY GRABBING" for ages to come, i don't see a problem.
Stop *****in', In the end EVE = Better then No EVE
The 'grabbing' WILL continue. It's BEEN happening. GTC's, Power of 2, now ghost training.
And in the end, what's better is being happy and having no regrets as to where my money has gone.
Complaining is a RIGHT of the paying customer. Get **ed. |
|
Tae'Lin Hynd
Simply Planned
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 18:27:00 -
[3711]
Edited by: Tae''Lin Hynd on 15/10/2008 18:29:51 I just gotta say, this really hot chick just walked past my window, i must go venture outside now to go google down my leg...
oh by the way
this is the real problem
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=897633 |
UrbanCapt
Gallente Havoc Violence and Chaos The Church.
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 18:29:00 -
[3712]
Is there a grace period if there is a lapse in our account. To make sure that we dont' lose any sp should we have issues with our bank account? Fair maybE? |
Hammeroffire
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 18:29:00 -
[3713]
Originally by: IntegralHellsing
Originally by: Tae'Lin Hynd
Originally by: IntegralHellsing 1. a bug that lasted for 5 years? Seriously, if it was so called BUG why did it take so long?
2. CCP, you're nothing more than any Korean online game companies that don't care about players. all you care about is money. I miss the days when CCP cared so much about players. But now you've gone so low as to think of us players as money makers. Your attitude is just like any Korean online game companies. Now you don't deserve to be the creator of world's best game.
***next in the news***
EvE skill point modifiers now on sale at the item mall
Also stop in for our special on Tier 2 BS of any race for 3.99$
Stop into my store and pick up your new Ghey ass hat..only 0.75c
double skill training item! faster skill training item! modules! ships! even charges! implants! and many more!
seriously, we koreans always joked that if CCP were ever to be ghey like korean online game companies, they'd add those features as well.
The sad part is, That's probably what's gunna happen. I remember playing "space cowboy online", and then I quit for THIS... so it looks like I'm moving on in the world of MMO's, from this trend. |
Kumatora
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 18:30:00 -
[3714]
Edited by: Kumatora on 15/10/2008 18:32:37 Wow.
I'm actually kind of worried for CCP right now. They might make slightly more money in the short term, but in the long run they will probably lose profits. This could be the end of CCP and eve, or at the very least a serious downsizing in terms of layoffs to CCP employees and selling off server space to compensate for the large drop in the average number of accounts subscribed at any one time.
As for me, I'm seriously considering going down to one account, but I can't honestly say I will do that for sure. However, I definitely will not go above 2. One industrialist and one combat is all I really want if I'm going to have to pay this much extra to train alts.
I'm just baffled by this. It doesn't seem at all feasible that the cost of maintaining extra server space for ghost training accounts isn't paid off with profit by the 1 month subscription every other month.
Is this just a last-ditch effort by CCP to remain financially solvent in the short term with masses of players taking a break from eve due to the financial crisis? I don't think so, because then they (CCP themselves) probably would be selling characters, skills, and items for real life money...
...which with the way things seem to be progressing, doesn't seem to unlikely to occur in the future. And let me warn you CCP, if that does happens then I WILL quit. Permanently. |
Kazaux Aux
Vanishing Point.
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 18:31:00 -
[3715]
Edited by: Kazaux Aux on 15/10/2008 18:31:04 3663 posts, 123 pages <-- my opinion |
Shard Merchant
Minmatar
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 18:31:00 -
[3716]
Originally by: UrbanCapt Is there a grace period if there is a lapse in our account. To make sure that we dont' lose any sp should we have issues with our bank account? Fair maybE?
Three days, according to some mod in a locked thread on page X on general forum. lol.
Speaking of mods, any luck restoring this thread to its former glory as a visible part of the Information Portal? |
Tae'Lin Hynd
Simply Planned
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 18:33:00 -
[3717]
Originally by: Shard Merchant
Originally by: UrbanCapt Is there a grace period if there is a lapse in our account. To make sure that we dont' lose any sp should we have issues with our bank account? Fair maybE?
Three days, according to some mod in a locked thread on page X on general forum. lol.
Speaking of mods, any luck restoring this thread to its former glory as a visible part of the Information Portal?
remember if they can't see it, it never happened....right? |
Chomin H'ak
The Trivenerate
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 18:33:00 -
[3718]
Originally by: Sahara Eternity
Originally by: Chomin H'ak
Originally by: CCP t0rfifrans The fact that so many people have been able to do so for several years was our own oversight.
And no one at CCP ghost trained? RIGHT!
M8, aldo I posted before and im 100% agree with the smashing majority of this posters, here you are sadly mistaken. Why ? Simple: Employees and GM do not pay neither for their admin account, neither for their normal character/characters due to the work they perform We are talking about hundreds perhaps even thousands of characters here. They don't need to "ghost train" . Just a thought ...
damn, thought I had a legitimate gripe... well, I guess not! Game on!....(right)
Doesn't matter, only reason for me to stay would be RL friends that play. Thing is, I can see them face2face and have MOAR FUN!
I'm gone, and if you're smart, you'll look for something else before you click the connect button with a sense of dread. |
Hammeroffire
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 18:35:00 -
[3719]
Originally by: Shard Merchant
Originally by: UrbanCapt Is there a grace period if there is a lapse in our account. To make sure that we dont' lose any sp should we have issues with our bank account? Fair maybE?
Three days, according to some mod in a locked thread on page X on general forum. lol.
Speaking of mods, any luck restoring this thread to its former glory as a visible part of the Information Portal?
Probably not. In order to get here I had to nav from the LAST news report [meaning after the next news report this one will vanish into the depths of devblog], and then had to click on "comment". It won't be long before this becomes locked and there's no way to reply. Nig's at CCP need money... They're prolly gunna chunk it off like stormworm. |
Chris Stormrider
Gallente IDEON ANDRON
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 18:35:00 -
[3720]
fail. I don't care much (after so many of them), but it's a fail nonetheless |
|
VoiceInTheDesert
Gallente Diplomatic Disruption
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 18:35:00 -
[3721]
Paying for the game? Preposterous.
Grow up people. It's not that expensive to play this game (less than most MMOs). It was good while it lasted, but there is no crime in finally closing a GIANT sinkhole of income for CCP.
And just for the record any of you who are "quitting" or "deleting an alt" aren't really costing CCP any money. For every one of you unreasonable whiners, there is a reasonable person who will just make their account active. So instead of two mostly non-paying accounts, they have one full paying account. Hell, even if they only get 2 or 3 full time subscriptions for every ten previously ghost trained accounts, they're still probably at least breaking even, maybe even making a profit. And they get a more active user base....so they really win both ways.
Therefor, your rage and attempts are "making them pay for it" are not only childish, but ineffective.
Also, can I have your stuffs? |
James Marshalll
Gallente
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 18:35:00 -
[3722]
Originally by: VoiceInTheDesert Paying for the game? Preposterous.
Grow up people. It's not that expensive to play this game (less than most MMOs). It was good while it lasted, but there is no crime in finally closing a GIANT sinkhole of income for CCP.
And just for the record any of you who are "quitting" or "deleting an alt" aren't really costing CCP any money. For every one of you unreasonable whiners, there is a reasonable person who will just make their account active. So instead of two mostly non-paying accounts, they have one full paying account. Hell, even if they only get 2 or 3 full time subscriptions for every ten previously ghost trained accounts, they're still probably at least breaking even, maybe even making a profit. And they get a more active user base....so they really win both ways.
Therefor, your rage and attempts are "making them pay for it" are not only childish, but ineffective.
Also, can I have your stuffs?
less then most mmo's? What mmo's do you play? lulz. |
Sahara Eternity
Amarr Imperial Academy
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 18:40:00 -
[3723]
Originally by: Chomin H'ak damn, thought I had a legitimate gripe... well, I guess not! Game on!....(right)
Doesn't matter, only reason for me to stay would be RL friends that play. Thing is, I can see them face2face and have MOAR FUN!
I'm gone, and if you're smart, you'll look for something else before you click the connect button with a sense of dread.
Relax m8, I'm ok with u're oppinion but in this specific case I quoted it's even worse you said it is |
Random5154
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 18:44:00 -
[3724]
Originally by: Tanya Stritner Numbers are not Growing!
People are leaving every day. There were 45.000 players online in May, now only 38.000 max.
You have a few exaggerations in your numbers. TQ hit 42k in March, and it hit 40k October. That's a 2k difference, a monumental 5% difference. If you consider than TQ in the Fall of '07 was 30-35k, I see this as growth. I compare year on year numbers, but either way these numbers don't support "people are leaving everyday". If they are, just like any MMO has churn, then they are being replaced by new people everyday. |
Random5154
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 18:46:00 -
[3725]
Originally by: Kheldon Fel You don't care if a company shits all over you?
Some of us have higher standards.
You see, you call them morales, I call it common sense. So when your local transit authority tells you that fees are going up in 2 weeks by 10%, you going to walk instead of catching the bus because the company shat all over you?
What is wrong with you and your emo antics? You going to stop buying Nike shoes because they had slave farms overseas? You going to stop putting gas in your car due to big oil companies funding legislation? Or do you have those kind of 'morale' standards that you conveniently pick and choose when it suits your emo rage? |
Deathcore
Caldari Synthetic Frontiers
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 18:47:00 -
[3726]
Originally by: Hammeroffire
Originally by: Deathcore
Originally by: Rramar Claime
Originally by: Levenson
Originally by: Jinx Barker
Please. CCp Developers used this "feature" to show the world on how "flexible" EVE is for an average person. That it is not necessary to worry about lapsed accounts, and one can always come back to something special.
Jut do a little research and look at interviews by Oveur, and, forget his name, the CEO of CCP, and many, many other developers, have al;ways insisted this was a feature and sign of flexibility of EVE Online.
What is happening now is a called a MONEY GRAB. Which makes me nervous, since in many respects a MONEY GRAB in corporations usually comes ahead of some severe financial trouble, and usually, the MONEY GRABs do not work for the corporations because their customers will only make their financial situation worse by leaving.
This is usually what happens:
1) Money GRAB 2) Short-Term Liquidity Achieved 3) Customer base starts to leave 4) Problems they thought will be alleviated by the "money grab" get worse.
I will watch with some fascination as to what is going to happen next.
^^^^ CCP! Read this attentively!
113 pages, way to go ccp hope you see now how good a decision this was
Have you not heard how Icelands economy is F***** at best ? The Country almost went bankrupt FFS, Chill the hell out, i used ghost training and found it awesome, would you rather not have an EVE to come back to after the nerd rage?
Aslong as CCP don't contine "MONEY GRABBING" for ages to come, i don't see a problem.
Stop *****in', In the end EVE = Better then No EVE
You don't see a problem *****h? I'm sorry, But the fact is they're removing a feature of their game for money. Basically this means, Next up will be to remove the "bug" of things like "offline training" because people were having an "unfair disadvantage" from it.
Or maybe it'll end up like other people were saying, Like any general Asian MMO where you pay for items with money to get an advantage over other players... oh wait, they do that here too? and this is the fourth money grab in a line of money grabs? if we don't take a stand, or at least complain, this will end up being a game where everything is sold in USD or Euro's. So yeah motherfck'r, there's a problem.
Big Quote ¼_¼, I Meant it as in aslong as it doesn't become a reoccuring trend i don't see a problem, Again, Would you rather have NO EVE at all ?
P.S - I'm not a *****h. |
Hong Lihua
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 18:48:00 -
[3727]
Heh so much CCP hate. It would be funny to see a large protest at the EVE Fanfest this year.... someone remember to post pics if that happens. |
10of10
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 18:50:00 -
[3728]
Originally by: Random5154
Originally by: Kheldon Fel You don't care if a company shits all over you?
Some of us have higher standards.
You see, you call them morales, I call it common sense. So when your local transit authority tells you that fees are going up in 2 weeks by 10%, you going to walk instead of catching the bus because the company shat all over you?
What is wrong with you and your emo antics? You going to stop buying Nike shoes because they had slave farms overseas? You going to stop putting gas in your car due to big oil companies funding legislation? Or do you have those kind of 'morale' standards that you conveniently pick and choose when it suits your emo rage?
CCP alt spotted.... he has posted at least 3 times per page for the entire day. Time to punch the clock and go away. |
Elderon
Gallente
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 18:51:00 -
[3729]
-3 |
Paladineguru
Gallente DAB G00DFELLAS
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 18:54:00 -
[3730]
Originally by: Charoline De'Lanari According to the Revelations Patch notes way back in history CCP applied a fix to the china server (Serenity) for this "bug", if this was a "bug", then why wasn't this done on Tranq at the same time?
I find this lag of time disturbing, especially conssdiering the rationale behind this fix now...
because they were going to then the community *****ed so much they backed off. kinda like on the veldnaught. |
|
Dire Radiant
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 18:54:00 -
[3731]
-1 |
Erimisha
Minmatar
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 18:54:00 -
[3732]
Originally by: Random5154
Originally by: Kheldon Fel You don't care if a company shits all over you?
Some of us have higher standards.
You see, you call them morales, I call it common sense. So when your local transit authority tells you that fees are going up in 2 weeks by 10%, you going to walk instead of catching the bus because the company shat all over you?
Depends.. Did they justify their fee hike with honesty or did they try to make up reasons that didn't make sense and keep changing their reasoning as they were questioned by their customers?
Did they claim that gas costs them more and then change their story after people prove that gas actually went down? Did this imaginary transit authority stifle and gag anyone who was upset at their fee hike? Did this imaginary transit authority have a history of corruption and outlandish expenditures (like, say a nice new huge exotic fish aquarium in their main office and extraneous personel) before their proposed fee hike?
You keep trying to make this some sort of black and white issue about ghost training while most of us are looking beyong ghost training and looking at how it was handled and their reasons given.
For that matter, is it me or do most of the supporters of this change appear to be ! marks? |
ZenSun
COLD-Wing
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 18:57:00 -
[3733]
I just want to see this thread pass 150 pages |
Tae'Lin Hynd
Simply Planned
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 18:59:00 -
[3734]
Edited by: Tae''Lin Hynd on 15/10/2008 18:59:31
Originally by: Erimisha
Originally by: Random5154
Originally by: Kheldon Fel You don't care if a company shits all over you?
Some of us have higher standards.
You see, you call them morales, I call it common sense. So when your local transit authority tells you that fees are going up in 2 weeks by 10%, you going to walk instead of catching the bus because the company shat all over you?
Depends.. Did they justify their fee hike with honesty or did they try to make up reasons that didn't make sense and keep changing their reasoning as they were questioned by their customers?
Did they claim that gas costs them more and then change their story after people prove that gas actually went down? Did this imaginary transit authority stifle and gag anyone who was upset at their fee hike? Did this imaginary transit authority have a history of corruption and outlandish expenditures (like, say a nice new huge exotic fish aquarium in their main office and extraneous personel) before their proposed fee hike?
You keep trying to make this some sort of black and white issue about ghost training while most of us are looking beyong ghost training and looking at how it was handled and their reasons given.
For that matter, is it me or do most of the supporters of this change appear to be ! marks?
those are the accounts CCP are selling for isk to drive up GTC prices...
|
S3Ti
Genbuku. Daisho Syndicate
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 19:01:00 -
[3735]
Originally by: Erimisha
For that matter, is it me or do most of the supporters of this change appear to be ! marks?
Shh... don't say that or we will be ! marks too...
I wish i could go to fanfest. I could always grab some tomatoes and use my hand has snow launchers. Not because i wanted...was because you (CCP) deserved it.
|
Random5154
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 19:02:00 -
[3736]
Originally by: Erimisha Depends.. Did they justify their fee hike with honesty or did they try to make up reasons that didn't make sense and keep changing their reasoning as they were questioned by their customers?
Did they claim that gas costs them more and then change their story after people prove that gas actually went down? Did this imaginary transit authority stifle and gag anyone who was upset at their fee hike? Did this imaginary transit authority have a history of corruption and outlandish expenditures (like, say a nice new huge exotic fish aquarium in their main office and extraneous personel) before their proposed fee hike?
You keep trying to make this some sort of black and white issue about ghost training while most of us are looking beyong ghost training and looking at how it was handled and their reasons given.
For that matter, is it me or do most of the supporters of this change appear to be ! marks?
I'm viewing this issue as black and white because it is. The fact that you wish to focus upon the management of the black and white issue is my point.
If you disagree with the change, and quit because the game has become too expensive to play it the way you wish, then fair enough. If you agree that the change makes sense, and will still play, then fair enough.
Now instead of looking at a very simple black and white issue, you wish to get all touchy feely about it, about how it was communicated. When you start looking at the form over substance, people start blowing things out of proportion - which is a huge part of this thread.
Seriously, why look beyond the issue? How will that impact your EVE experience in the next 12 months? The fact that CCP has this history already tells us that this isn't anything new, so what act like it is? Pay to play, or go play something else, it really is that black and white.
And as for being a CCP alt, thank heavens no - would totally suck to be living in Iceland right about now. |
Ebil Sushi
Caldari School of Applied Knowledge
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 19:04:00 -
[3737]
The financial crisis isn't the reason why CCP is doing this, as they are getting paid mostly in EUR an USD. So atm the developers and programmers got prolly the best paid jobs in whole Iceland.
The fable about their databases being eaten up by thousands of alts is just pathetic as well. As Solid State Disks gotten way cheap just BECAUSE of the financial crisis!
Which leaves us still with the question: why are they are doing this
BECAUSE they are exactly the greedy *****s they claim not to be perhaps?
From what I can tell Mr. Olafsson (Spelling?) comes from the economics school. In first year as a junior he learned that once you got a product which has been a Cash Cow for quite a while U can be sure its going down the drain. This is when You, the CEO, wants to maximise the revenue.
So Mr. Olafsson ran some statistics and found out that about 50% of the accounts are inactive for at least 25% of the year. In conclusion, If he could get their owners to pay up for the other 25% of the year he would rise the revenue to 25%. a) disable a feature which has been in for 5 years b) claim ppl using the feature are exploiting the game and thus hurting it c) get moar subscription d) PROFIT!
So far at least the theory.
Now my thesis: My thesis is that once a company is lead on management stage by economists the whole company turns into shite. If you need evidence for this statement just look up recent economical developments.
So what to do now: I for one don't plan any RL currency for this mess any longer. So Mr. Olafsson, I suppose you will have to remove the secure GTC trading system as well :P And while You are at it - Pretty please with sugar on top of it - implement some Skillpoint penalty for characters on inactive accounts! This would really catalyse the end of Eve and you could finally release the new MMORPG for a phat subscription fee!
Your biggest fan,
|
Shagginator
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 19:04:00 -
[3738]
just curious whats next nerfing the old toons that used ghost training |
Mociornita
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 19:06:00 -
[3739]
Originally by: Zamolxiss Goddamnit CCP
Now why the **** would you **** us like this !?
You need money !? ok, there are alot of other ways to get more money besides this one, diversify your account types, make it posible for us to train more characters on a single account and ask more money for it, could be one.. i DO NOT WANT to have 6 accounts, but i DO WANT to play this game the best i can and that leaves me/us no choice..
So given the nature of EVE i as many others that play the game to it's limits until we crash your servers... and even tho they allways crash, and even tho yuo're GM's are clueless and ridiculous to such extent that i don't even bother with petitions anymore ("our logs show nothing" anyone !?)... we're still logging in the next day... those of us that do that, need more that one character.. it's the way you wanted it to be, the way you built it.. it's what you wanted us to do... and we did it... a shitload of us have a shitload of accounts each.. we did that because the cost/opportunity equation was acceptable, now after many of us own more eve accounts than bank accounts, you change the cost/opportunity equation.. so tell me, will you be able ask for any trust and respect from any of us from now on ?
I truly belive that most of you people lack any basic understanding of the game and more important, you are clueless regarding your player base..
What type of players do you think this change will affect !? the most important one, those that are here every ****ing day, and have been for years.. the hardcore players.. witch given the nature of this game ARE NOT KIDS, people that have rl commitments people that can be rather bussy and unavailable from time to time but also people that tend to come back because they HAVE SOMETHING TO LOOK FORWARD TO.. now they won't because a sain individual will not pay rl money just to train skills.. those that will pay are the farmers that have allways payed with isk, the game and theyr rl expenses
More so i don't think we as players have the same perspective or understanding of the game as you do... because you seem to be thinking that you have a perfect product, and no compromise what so ever needs to be made to sell it.. well i don't think so... i never did, and most of the people i know in game see things somewhat the same way i do.. This thing you call ghost training was here to compensate to some extent for the absolutely ridiculous and absurd character progressin process..
Tbh CCP, looking back i can honestly say that the costs in both money and far more important TIME, far exceed the enjoyment and the satisfaction i've got from EVE
I won't threaten with accounts cancelation and this sort of shit.. that's for kids, the decision regarding that was made long before, this is just an excuse, as good as any other, and it came now..
I wish you all the best, EVE has the potential to be an extraordinary game but for some reason you never seem to make the right steps ahead..
Zam
amen brotha |
Nate D
Hell's Rejects
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 19:07:00 -
[3740]
BAD CCP Put it BACK! |
|
Inevitability
Caldari Desperados Inc.
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 19:09:00 -
[3741]
Worst decision you guys have EVER made! Give us a skill que. The ignoring us doesn't make this go away. All it does is inflame even more of your customers. 153 pages and going strong.
Oveur, time to step out of your cubicle and speak up.
-1 account |
Velda Chulai
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 19:10:00 -
[3742]
Originally by: Random5154
Originally by: Kheldon Fel You don't care if a company shits all over you?
Some of us have higher standards.
You see, you call them morales, I call it common sense. So when your local transit authority tells you that fees are going up in 2 weeks by 10%, you going to walk instead of catching the bus because the company shat all over you?
What is wrong with you and your emo antics? You going to stop buying Nike shoes because they had slave farms overseas? You going to stop putting gas in your car due to big oil companies funding legislation? Or do you have those kind of 'morale' standards that you conveniently pick and choose when it suits your emo rage?
First, Kheldon called them Standards, not morales. There is a question of business ethics when a company tells three lies in a 24 hour period but that's another issue.
As for shoes, I don't buy Nike, I don't own a car (nor choose to at this time), I make a decent wage and I don't need a company overseas with a history of lying and a disgusting selection of apologists and shills deciding I'm not paying enough.
I willfully invite any CCP employee to confirm the cancellation status of my accounts publicly on this forum; the moment I find another game which offers the features of Eve Online, I'll probably play that game but I cannot play Eve, especially given CCP's failures with regards to business ethics. |
Nilien
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 19:12:00 -
[3743]
Edited by: Nilien on 15/10/2008 19:14:35 I think what sould be better to pay for my main Howen or to return in WoW. If i choose Eve i had to farm farm farm then pvp then farm farm pvp ,then pay again etc. In WoW i have to farm farm PvP PvP farm farm pvp pvp etc. I see no difference only atmosphere is differsent fantasy and sci-fi. Eve costs more than wow now in this way i think WoW is much more reasonable then Eve. In case no difference. EVE becomes smth like wow in this way. But server doesn't grow up it lowers online value .
|
Shagginator
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 19:12:00 -
[3744]
Edited by: Shagginator on 15/10/2008 19:16:08 the only way i can see even making this somewhat remotely fair is to cut all train time in half so instead of 30+ days for a skill it would be 15
this will help offset the years of ghost training |
Inthemix
Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 19:16:00 -
[3745]
let me train calda bs 5 in ghost mode, you bloody ****ers |
DiMTRX
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 19:18:00 -
[3746]
Edited by: DiMTRX on 15/10/2008 19:19:36
Subscription Status: Cancelled Will be suspended10/29/2008
Cancel Subscription Cancellation Expires: 10/29/2008 8:34:52 AM Remaining Playtime: 13d:13h:18m |
never2be
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 19:22:00 -
[3747]
this has got to be the largest amount of people ccp has ever gone "up yours" two :p
i rember when the forums actuly ment something and ccp listend. i guess those days are gone. |
Lungorthin
Black Eclipse Corp Band of Brothers
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 19:24:00 -
[3748]
Who you gonna call?
GHOST Busters!
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Echthalian
Martian Productions
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 19:27:00 -
[3749]
People, CCP used to call this a feature...now its a bug!?!?
Talk about ****ing up 2+ years of planning...On to another game people.
128+++pages.... |
freddy madball
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 19:30:00 -
[3750]
how about you give us all bs5 for free since you were so crass and insensitive.. oh wait..... you already did didnt you..... hmmmm b.s.5 wasnt as good as i was hoping it would be :-P |
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Huberek Morchu
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Posted - 2008.10.15 19:30:00 -
[3751]
Im confused about this argument that people were attracted to Eve because they could train their characters without having to play the game. Basically they have no problem that it takes 12 months to be able to fly some capital ship as long as they dont actually have to pay for the game or play while they wait. Does that make any sense?
"Im going to try this cool game eve because I dont plan on playing for a year, and its nice that I can just switch a skill every couple months till my clone is ready for me to use".
Why not just buy a character with the skillset you want? |
Random5154
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 19:31:00 -
[3752]
Originally by: Velda Chulai I willfully invite any CCP employee to confirm the cancellation status of my accounts publicly on this forum; the moment I find another game which offers the features of Eve Online, I'll probably play that game but I cannot play Eve, especially given CCP's failures with regards to business ethics.
Business ethics? Do you have a home, a mortgage, maybe insurance? Care to maybe take a peek at the various business ethics that have been followed that have resulted in a rather global meltdown over the past few months? Care to explain how you are going to avoid the business ethics of every large 'for profit' company in the world? Should we even start discussing drug companies where it's slightly more important than "internet space ships".
Seriously, is the year of 2008 to go back to the '60s where we can all be hippies with flowers in our hair? What is this emo crap? I think it'll be refreshing to wave all the emo rage quiters good bye. Maybe the forums will no longer be filled with quite so many whine threads. |
Inthemix
Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 19:31:00 -
[3753]
stop crying you ***gots.
k.
now, LET ME TRAIN BS CALDA 5 IN GHOOOST MOOAADE |
NupetietVer
Neuro Cartographic Services
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 19:33:00 -
[3754]
Qty Description Comment Price Amount 1 EVE Online 90 day Game Time card $38.99 $38.99
Qty Description Comment Price Amount 1 EVE Online ETC 60 Day Game Time Card Code $34.99 $34.99
Thank you CCP for making sure that we get the quality gaming that we pay for. Your 60 day ETCs make sure I can train longer now at a reduced price. Viva la CCP!
|
Serthin Isiorri
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 19:44:00 -
[3755]
Currently running 3 active accounts, 2 of which I had ghost training some rank 5 skill.. That ment I had to re-activate my accounts after one month of ghost-training which I had no problem with doing. And I paid real cash for the used GTC's..
Not anymore, -2 for you guys, at least.. |
akirahayase
Caldari Perkone
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 19:44:00 -
[3756]
Edited by: akirahayase on 15/10/2008 19:49:25
Originally by: DiMTRX Edited by: DiMTRX on 15/10/2008 19:19:36
Subscription Status: Cancelled Will be suspended10/29/2008
Cancel Subscription Cancellation Expires: 10/29/2008 8:34:52 AM Remaining Playtime: 13d:13h:18m
Can i have your stuff ?
Hmm i see some good things about the whole of this ,lot's of ppl are claiming quitting eve .
So perhaps we can have 'less lag pvp then' or ... are only the empire ppl whining and the 0.0 are silent
Originally by: Echthalian People, CCP used to call this a feature...now its a bug!?!?
Talk about ****ing up 2+ years of planning...On to another game people.
128+++pages....
You plan on not playing a game thats intresting for sure ,i bet eve was/is the only game you could still ''play''' and not had to pay .
Well that time is over so stop whining and go play or quit and go play WOW or some other game ,ow hint i bet you can't play or train there whiteout paying ,dunno coz i never played it lol |
Kheldon Fel
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 19:47:00 -
[3757]
Originally by: Random5154
Originally by: Kheldon Fel You don't care if a company shits all over you?
Some of us have higher standards.
You see, you call them morales, I call it common sense. So when your local transit authority tells you that fees are going up in 2 weeks by 10%, you going to walk instead of catching the bus because the company shat all over you?
What is wrong with you and your emo antics? You going to stop buying Nike shoes because they had slave farms overseas? You going to stop putting gas in your car due to big oil companies funding legislation? Or do you have those kind of 'morale' standards that you conveniently pick and choose when it suits your emo rage?
What? Make sense, man. Incidentally, my transit fare is going up 7% this coming January. However, the reasons were explained logically and well ahead of time in a manner that makes sense. If they'd approached the hike in such a way that CCP has handled this fiasco, I'd be much more upset.
As for your other nonsensical ramblings, I don't actually own a pair of nikes. Oh, and I walk to the train station and don't actually own a car. I'm not sure what that has to do with the conversation at hand, however. Please don't bother to explain because I don't think I want to understand that level of stupidity. |
10of10
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 19:48:00 -
[3758]
Originally by: akirahayase
Originally by: DiMTRX Edited by: DiMTRX on 15/10/2008 19:19:36
Subscription Status: Cancelled Will be suspended10/29/2008
Cancel Subscription Cancellation Expires: 10/29/2008 8:34:52 AM Remaining Playtime: 13d:13h:18m
Can i have your stuff ?
Hmm i see some good things about the whole of this ,lot's of ppl are claiming quitting eve .
So perhaps we can have 'less lag pvp then' or ... are only the empire ppl whining and the 0.0 are silent
Of course your a 12 year old.....Right |
padraig animal
Minmatar Vanguard Frontiers Violent-Tendencies
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 19:51:00 -
[3759]
Originally by: 10of10
Originally by: akirahayase
Originally by: DiMTRX Edited by: DiMTRX on 15/10/2008 19:19:36
Subscription Status: Cancelled Will be suspended10/29/2008
Cancel Subscription Cancellation Expires: 10/29/2008 8:34:52 AM Remaining Playtime: 13d:13h:18m
Can i have your stuff ?
Hmm i see some good things about the whole of this ,lot's of ppl are claiming quitting eve .
So perhaps we can have 'less lag pvp then' or ... are only the empire ppl whining and the 0.0 are silent
Of course your a 12 year old.....Right
Talking about alt posting |
Nedward Flanders
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 19:52:00 -
[3760]
CCP has no flair at all. We had the 30 and 90 days removed not a long time ago (which i suppose was aiming at the same problem -> forcing people to play at least 2 months). And now this with only 2 days before the action is a rude way as well.
@ CCP
If you need smart people that tell you how to make such approaches without ****ing everybody off, and actually get a benefit that works, just send me an email. I'll help for a small tip.
To give you a foretaste:
- Announce this change for the start of 2009. Give people time to accept such hard changes. - Don't **** around with your customers by telling them total ****shit about your motives or technical issues. The moment you start selling a feature (which has been a feature for 5 years!) as a bug, you could as well stand up and say to all your customers that they are total dump ***es in the face.
If you want more money and have a problem with ghost training nowadays, i would try another approach. Ask yourself why people ghosttrain. My conclusion is, cause you have those exorbitant long skills. What would happen if you set the longest skill one can train to like 14 days? Divide the current long skills in 2, and people would only ghost train for 14 days. Well, i guess it's to late for smart solutions, the roof is already on fire
btw ... - 1 account |
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EvEhate2
Minmatar PPN United Against ALL Authorities
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 19:54:00 -
[3761]
Originally by: Lungorthin Who you gonna call?
GHOST Busters!
----------------------
how can i ever read this Wall of Text in this Thread Keep posting guys \o/
@ccp Stop ghost training but dont Nerv NANO!!Deal? |
Random5154
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 19:57:00 -
[3762]
Edited by: Random5154 on 15/10/2008 19:57:40 I find it amazing that everyone with these amazing standards happen to not have a car, or own a pair of Nikes, and happen to walk just about everywhere barefoot (insert some witty comment about another brand of shoe that follows the same practices). No wonder about the *****ing over a couple of $'s a month. I suppose you also have no other forms of entertainment, like movies, or DVDs and probably eat macaroni every night too.
|
Lorgoth
Children of Gjallarhorn
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 19:58:00 -
[3763]
Edited by: Lorgoth on 15/10/2008 19:59:24
Originally by: Random5154 I find it amazing that everyone with these amazing standards happen to not have a car, or own a pair of Nikes, and happen to walk just about everywhere. No wonder about the *****ing over a couple of $'s a month. I suppose you also have no other forms of entertainment, like movies, or DVDs and probably eat macaroni every night too.
...said brave alt.
and yes. ppl are mostly p1ssed cause you lied, ccp, you ninja edited stuff... not because of this change. the way you handled it is outrageous.
|
Random5154
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 19:59:00 -
[3764]
Originally by: Lorgoth ...said brave alt.
Just doing my alt part. Just like the other 90% of alts posting here. At least I'm not cancelling him because CCP told me a lie. What would mommy say. |
EvEhate2
Minmatar PPN United Against ALL Authorities
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 20:00:00 -
[3765]
Originally by: Lorgoth
Originally by: Random5154 I find it amazing that everyone with these amazing standards happen to not have a car, or own a pair of Nikes, and happen to walk just about everywhere. No wonder about the *****ing over a couple of $'s a month. I suppose you also have no other forms of entertainment, like movies, or DVDs and probably eat macaroni every night too.
...said brave alt.
A ghost trained one? |
Dianeces
The Illuminati. Pandemic Legion
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 20:00:00 -
[3766]
Just thought I'd post this again, to make sure everyone gets a chance to see it:
Originally by: CCP t0rfifrans The bug that became a feature
On Monday, we released news that we are disabling äGhost Trainingô, the ability to train characters on inactive accounts. This resulted in strong reactions from the community as many people were routinely making use of it. We explained the matter in more detail and pointed out that this had been a bug in the original game code. Those of us who were involved in the process of making the decision and communicating it to the community did not realize this bug had been so accepted as a feature that it was listed as such in our own documentation on our own website.
How can we not know whatæs in our own documentation? Well, to be frank, it was a case of insufficient communication on our part between various teams û a regrettable mistake and hard lesson to learn at the expense of the trust youæve placed in us. Thereæs no way to spin it and we wonæt add insult to injury by trying to do so. It was a mistake on our part and for that we sincerely and humbly apologize.
Many would hope that in light of this we will decide not to cancel ghost training and keep it active as an option but weære cannot to do that. EVE is already one-of-a-kind in allowing players to progress their characters through offline skill training. We stand by our policy that if you want your character to progress in EVE, you should pay the subscription fee. The fact that so many people have been able to do so for several years was our own oversight. We know this change, and our misstep in telling you about it, has created some discontent and we hope that over time we can prove our committment to make EVE better than ever for you will be evident as you enjoy the fruits of our labor.
Torfi
CCP: "It's a bug." Players: "It's been documented in the Player Guide for five years." CCP: "That was a miscommunication." Players: "You tried to get rid of it before, but backed off because of the community outrage." CCP: "......It's a bug?"
Honestly, there are really only two conclusions I can draw from this whole thing: a.) y'all are lying your asses off trying to Please visit your user settings to re-enable images. b.) you are the most incompetent game developers I have ever dealt with, by touting a "bug" as a game feature for five years.
Oh, I think I forgot to mention: This is a bug. |
Kheldon Fel
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 20:02:00 -
[3767]
Originally by: Random5154 Edited by: Random5154 on 15/10/2008 19:57:40 I find it amazing that everyone with these amazing standards happen to not have a car, or own a pair of Nikes, and happen to walk just about everywhere barefoot (insert some witty comment about another brand of shoe that follows the same practices). No wonder about the *****ing over a couple of $'s a month. I suppose you also have no other forms of entertainment, like movies, or DVDs and probably eat macaroni every night too.
No, you're still stupid. I walk to the train station because it's less than half a mile from my house. I wear work shoes to work and own a pair of fairly comfy Converse that I've had for years. I make good money, own numerous game consoles, computers, TVs, etc so I don't know where that particular outburst of idiocy comes from.
Perhaps you should run along for a while until you can compose a somewhat coherent argument like the adults are doing. |
Random5154
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 20:04:00 -
[3768]
Originally by: Kheldon Fel No, you're still stupid. I walk to the train station because it's less than half a mile from my house. I wear work shoes to work and own a pair of fairly comfy Converse that I've had for years. I make good money, own numerous game consoles, computers, TVs, etc so I don't know where that particular outburst of idiocy comes from.
Perhaps you should run along for a while until you can compose a somewhat coherent argument like the adults are doing.
Alright adult, go along and quit because CCP hurt your feelings. It's what all the adults are doing. o/ |
Lorgoth
Children of Gjallarhorn
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 20:06:00 -
[3769]
Edited by: Lorgoth on 15/10/2008 20:06:41
Originally by: Random5154
Originally by: Kheldon Fel No, you're still stupid. I walk to the train station because it's less than half a mile from my house. I wear work shoes to work and own a pair of fairly comfy Converse that I've had for years. I make good money, own numerous game consoles, computers, TVs, etc so I don't know where that particular outburst of idiocy comes from.
Perhaps you should run along for a while until you can compose a somewhat coherent argument like the adults are doing.
Alright adult, go along and quit because CCP hurt your feelings. It's what all the adults are doing. o/
ok, it's pretty late, kid. go to bed. it's what all the kids are doing.
|
10of10
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 20:07:00 -
[3770]
Originally by: Random5154
Originally by: Kheldon Fel No, you're still stupid. I walk to the train station because it's less than half a mile from my house. I wear work shoes to work and own a pair of fairly comfy Converse that I've had for years. I make good money, own numerous game consoles, computers, TVs, etc so I don't know where that particular outburst of idiocy comes from.
Perhaps you should run along for a while until you can compose a somewhat coherent argument like the adults are doing.
Alright adult, go along and quit because CCP hurt your feelings. It's what all the adults are doing. o/
So CCP is letting you work overtime I see. Keep posting. |
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Kheldon Fel
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 20:07:00 -
[3771]
Originally by: Random5154
Originally by: Kheldon Fel No, you're still stupid. I walk to the train station because it's less than half a mile from my house. I wear work shoes to work and own a pair of fairly comfy Converse that I've had for years. I make good money, own numerous game consoles, computers, TVs, etc so I don't know where that particular outburst of idiocy comes from.
Perhaps you should run along for a while until you can compose a somewhat coherent argument like the adults are doing.
Alright adult, go along and quit because CCP hurt your feelings. It's what all the adults are doing. o/
Thanks for proving that you don't know what you're talking about. o/ |
Clair Bear
Coalition of Nations Free Trade Zone.
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 20:08:00 -
[3772]
I'd say I'm emoragequitting, but I'm not feeling very much rage. Lately I haven't even bothered to log in because... it'll be months before I can do the 'next thing' I haven't done in eve. And without the ability to train at least a few of those rank 8+ 'V' prereqs unfunded... Let's just say the drive is simiply lacking.
4 accounts were in hibernation because of GTC changes. Odds are it's permanent now. And once this account expires there's little to no reason to resub immediately -- I may be back once ambulation or some other shiny hits. Or not. Meh. Failing to care much about eve lately. |
chiisai sakana
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 20:08:00 -
[3773]
doesn't take a too bright guy to notice that this thing has turned into a fiasko on ccp's part. |
Random5154
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 20:11:00 -
[3774]
Originally by: Kheldon Fel Thanks for proving that you don't know what you're talking about. o/
Sigh, you going to make me go back to your previous posts? OK.
Originally by: Kheldon Fel So you've never boycotted (as in refused to give money to) a business that treated you in a way you didn't like?
I am sorry CCP treated you in a way you didn't like, and that you are now upset by that treatment and will boycott them. That blows. o/ |
Random5154
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 20:13:00 -
[3775]
Originally by: Clair Bear I'd say I'm emoragequitting, but I'm not feeling very much rage. Lately I haven't even bothered to log in because... it'll be months before I can do the 'next thing' I haven't done in eve. And without the ability to train at least a few of those rank 8+ 'V' prereqs unfunded... Let's just say the drive is simiply lacking.
4 accounts were in hibernation because of GTC changes. Odds are it's permanent now. And once this account expires there's little to no reason to resub immediately -- I may be back once ambulation or some other shiny hits. Or not. Meh. Failing to care much about eve lately.
See, this is a reasonable thread by a reasonable person. And to this end, I do think that the change sucks because some valid people have some valid gripes about the changes and the game no longer being worthwhile for them. It no longers provides the enjoyment to pay for, that I can respect.
All the emoragequitters, hurry up and quit. EVE has been DYING after all for years. |
Lorgoth
Children of Gjallarhorn
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 20:14:00 -
[3776]
125 pages... nice. it's even better when some noob-GM tried to pull that sh1t with carriers changes. oh boy... that was fun to read all that rage and anger.
keep up the good work, ccp. we are definitely heading in the right direction.
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Velda Chulai
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 20:15:00 -
[3777]
Edited by: Velda Chulai on 15/10/2008 20:18:52
Originally by: Random5154
Originally by: Velda Chulai I willfully invite any CCP employee to confirm the cancellation status of my accounts publicly on this forum; the moment I find another game which offers the features of Eve Online, I'll probably play that game but I cannot play Eve, especially given CCP's failures with regards to business ethics.
Business ethics? Do you have a home, a mortgage, maybe insurance?
We paid off our mortgage and, despite some hard times where we could have been foreclosed on (missing payment for but a few days can be grounds), the bank chose not to. We now own our home outright.
As for insurence terms, we read and understand our terms. Luckily we've never had to make a claim but we understand phrases like "Acts of God" (which is really an easier-to-swallow catch all for "anomalous events")
Quote:
Care to maybe take a peek at the various business ethics that have been followed that have resulted in a rather global meltdown over the past few months? Care to explain how you are going to avoid the business ethics of every large 'for profit' company in the world? Should we even start discussing drug companies where it's slightly more important than "internet space ships".
In addition to making this a topic that goes beyond the scope of this thread, you're comparing Internet Spaceships to an international financial disaster? CCP is a for profit company, and this is a terrible way of securing the goal of profit.
I know enough to pick my battles, and this is an easy one; I clicked one button.
Quote:
Seriously, is the year of 2008 to go back to the '60s where we can all be hippies with flowers in our hair? What is this emo crap? I think it'll be refreshing to wave all the emo rage quiters good bye. Maybe the forums will no longer be filled with quite so many whine threads.
Nice ad homonym. All MMORPGs have nerfs that displease their respective communities. Last week, this entire topic wasn't an issue. CCP has decided to make it one and it's clearly tearing the community apart. CCP has chosen to take on a divisive issue and from my perspective they need to be taken to task for it. 2 days notice on a significant change that they've lied about three times is far too much.
From my perspective, I no longer want to pay for a game if they wish to willfully remove any incentive I had to inject money in on an ad-hoc basis. Why should my sporadically subscribed, resource-light characters fund enhancements and development for resources that everyone else will make more use of?
I have friends who agree that I'm taking an extreme position, many of whom I'll miss. I'll retain some email addresses and if I find something better, I'll pass the word on. However my hope is that CCP reverses this decision and those friends e-mail me with the good news.
Ultimately CCP can make a decision. So can everyone else. Hopefully anyone who remains enjoys Eve for what it is, but CCP's honesty in this as well as with historical events is entirely another matter. |
James Marshalll
Gallente
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 20:17:00 -
[3778]
Originally by: Huberek Morchu Im confused about this argument that people were attracted to Eve because they could train their characters without having to play the game. Basically they have no problem that it takes 12 months to be able to fly some capital ship as long as they dont actually have to pay for the game or play while they wait. Does that make any sense?
"Im going to try this cool game eve because I dont plan on playing for a year, and its nice that I can just switch a skill every couple months till my clone is ready for me to use".
Why not just buy a character with the skillset you want?
I can not of course talk for everyone here, since I am only one man. I can tell you that the reason I came here was WAY before capital ships even existed. I did however at the time enjoy the concept of a game where I could leave for a month or two because of work, train a long skill, and come back to it being finished while saving myself 15 a month since I wasn't playing the game anyway.
For me, this was a drawing feature because even when I get burnt out, which I do a lot, it allowed me to continue on training because I always knew I would come back even if not to restart a new skill when the first finished, but because I was bored with everything else on the market I would still have something to look forward to.
It was "Cool" because it allowed those of us with super hectic lives (and those of who who DIDNT ABUSE IT) to still progress our skills even if we weren't progressing our ISK intake or kill quota while saving 15 bucks for whatever reason we had for quiting for a month or two.
BUT WITH THAT SAID.
My issue with this change is NOT the simple fact they took it out, that is a big part of it, but the larger part is how they are handling it. Sorry thats the way I am, when Mythic Entertainment decided to nerf my ranger to the point where I was worthless I quit. Did I delete him? No, just as I wont biomass James or Heckubus, did I come back? You bet I did when they started to change the class back to where it at least could compete.
When mythic then again recently changed rangers into casters w/ bows I quit again. I posted on VN since Mythic has no forum of their own and let them know my displeasure and have not been back since. Did I delete the toon? No, for the same reasons I posted above. If I feel as though something that has changes, has impacted MY play style in a way that I feel is enough to warrant me quitting I do so. I post here, for the most part so that they can read it and understand what us as customers think, not to appease the masses of other people upset, or to make sure the trolls have troll food, or so the fanbois can laugh, I post because I paid to use these services and I "love" eve. But I am only loyal to a company who is loyal to its user base. To me, announcing this change a day before or so it happens, and then misleading people about why and blaming it on the fact that the company is too incompetent to know whats in its own user guides shows a disrespect for our intellect that just rubs me the wrong way enough to say ciao. |
Kheldon Fel
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 20:21:00 -
[3779]
Originally by: Random5154
Originally by: Kheldon Fel Thanks for proving that you don't know what you're talking about. o/
Sigh, you going to make me go back to your previous posts? OK.
Originally by: Kheldon Fel So you've never boycotted (as in refused to give money to) a business that treated you in a way you didn't like?
I am sorry CCP treated you in a way you didn't like, and that you are now upset by that treatment and will boycott them. That blows. o/
You're not very good at this, are you? Where, in that post, does it say that I've quit eve because CCP hurt my feelings? |
Lorgoth
Children of Gjallarhorn
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 20:23:00 -
[3780]
Originally by: Kheldon Fel
Originally by: Random5154
Originally by: Kheldon Fel Thanks for proving that you don't know what you're talking about. o/
Sigh, you going to make me go back to your previous posts? OK.
Originally by: Kheldon Fel So you've never boycotted (as in refused to give money to) a business that treated you in a way you didn't like?
I am sorry CCP treated you in a way you didn't like, and that you are now upset by that treatment and will boycott them. That blows. o/
You're not very good at this, are you? Where, in that post, does it say that I've quit eve because CCP hurt my feelings?
khel, leave kid alone, ok ? :]
|
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Azraeljbs
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 20:24:00 -
[3781]
I have only ghost trained on one occasion mostly by accident as my account expired and I had not realized it. However I see what CCP has done with this situation and I'm very concerned.
It would seem to be more of a money grab tactic than anything else, as this has been touted as a feature of the game for many years and not just by the player manual but also by CCP employees and the CEO himself as was posted in an earlier reply. To take this from the player base now after so many years claiming it was an "unintentional bug" is imho a dishonest, and despicable act. If CCP is indeed monitoring and reading these replies than I would like to throw a few things in here for them to read.
The majority of your players probably will not respond to this thread or even care about the removal of this feature, however well over 120 pages of replies to this thread, at least 110 of which contain single responses from individual players, should send off some warning bells. If indeed this game and the mechanics that are implemented in it are based upon player wants and needs as I've heard claimed many times, perhaps you should take notice. There are other options you could explore rather than simply taking something away that has been a feature for over 4 years regardless of whether it was intentional or not. Many claim they are quitting and have cancelled accounts this should raise a few red flags also. Will it hurt CCP? Not in the short term, but possibly in the long run. There are a few other games coming along with internet spaceships that people are going to flock to at first. Whether they remain there can't be predicted but it's going to hurt CCP initially. A major factor of whether they return to EVE will be the ghost training.
Following are suggestions I've read in this thread from more than just one individual that CCP should seriously take into consideration before sledge hammering a FEATURE out of the game.
1.) As others have suggested in earlier posts perhaps you could institute a pay for training scheme that would allow a player to keep an inactive account semi-active enough to train the longer skill sets, as a lot of people do take breaks for mutliple and varied reasons, some beyond their control. I would suggest about $5.00-$8.00 a month. 2.) Institute a skill queue system that allows a player to queue a set of skills to be trained in a certain order. I believe a fair amount would be up to 3 or 4 skill levels. The CSM could hash this out with CCP,(after all that's their job). 3.) Allow 2 of the 3 characters on one account to train simultaneously. Most other MMO's allow for more than one character per account to be leveled at a time, however I can see the down side to this and why CCP would not want such a game mechanic. This could have restrictions such as only one character able to train a LVL 5 skill at once or even more restrictive the "alt" could only train skills up to LVL 3 while a LVL 4 or 5 was training on the other character. Yet again the CSM would have to hash this one out.
There are other options than just simply taking something away without giving anything in return. Especially when so many have grown accustomed to something so simple and yet so profound as training a skill while your account is inactive. My preference is the first suggestion, this will generate revenue for CCP and possibly give them some of the money they seem to be grasping for without alienating a large chunk of their veteran player base. I seriously hope they are monitoring and reading the responses from their player base on this subject. If they are not than they have lost touch with their players and EVE will indeed soon fail.
/end wall of text |
Maurice MerleauPonty
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 20:24:00 -
[3782]
So what are the mmo companies that have a good rapport with customers, will have longevity, and don't do shady/deceptive things for dubious motives? Are there any 'player friendly' mmo companies? I though CCP was one of them, but now it seems like they are a big corp high up in the clouds enjoying their gluttonous fish tank purchase.
CCP manager: "You know it would be fabulous if part of the top floor could be converted into a miniature rainforest ecosystem with exotic birds flying about. You know, so that when I'm taking lunch breaks I can enjoy the sounds of $10,000 parrots."
CCP employee: "It would be very expensive sir. Hundreds of thousands, at least. Plus the maintenance costs"
CCP manager: "I know, let's raise GTC prices and make them commit to longer play periods! That should cover the costs."
CCP employee: "Sir we did that a couple of months ago."
CCP manager: "Hm. How about a grand strategy to make them want to create alts, then force them to pay for those alts with uninterrupted subscriptions."
CCP employee: "That was last month. Remember the 'bug not feature' outcry over ghost-training?"
CCP manager: "Right, right. Well tell the creative department to create some more skills for an expansion. Something that sounds smart and desirable, rank 8 or 9. 'Quantum Phenomenology' or 'Phased Infusionment' or some crap like that..."
CCP employee: "Sir--?"
CCP manager: "Just shut up and do it. I don't like it when you talk back to me. Just take your vitoc and get to work. I have a deep tissue massage scheduled in 10 minutes and I can't be late" |
Random5154
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 20:26:00 -
[3783]
Originally by: Velda Chulai In addition to making this a topic that goes beyond the scope of this thread, you're comparing Internet Spaceships to an international financial disaster? CCP is a for profit company, and this is a terrible way of securing the goal of profit.
A very good post, in seriousness, that I respect. The above point is where I guess we disagree. I don't think making people pay for the service being provided as a 'terrible way of securing profit'. Making people pay for the service provided is what I consider a good business model.
I recognize and acknowledge that there was potential to get some free training before, and when it was reasonably used when people went AFK for a month here and there which made the game attractive to those players, fair enough. However, there is huge potential to also abuse this system, and for that fact I am happy that CCP is plugging the hole.
I see skill training and play time bundled into the $15/month. Others disagree and only see play time in the $15/month, with skill training as a semi-free service. I see "free" as a privilege, not a right. When people started abusing that privilege then everyone lost it.
And back to my first point - if you leaving because of the substance of the change, fair enough. If you leave because of how they communicated it, bye! |
Random5154
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 20:31:00 -
[3784]
Originally by: Kheldon Fel You're not very good at this, are you? Where, in that post, does it say that I've quit eve because CCP hurt my feelings?
So you jump on the bandwagon about having higher standards for boycotting companies that treat you poorly, jump up and down posting about it, but then don't actually boycott the company.
Sorry, I made the assumption that by jumping on that bandwagon you were in the wagon. Meanwhile you are exactly in the wagon I'm posting about. That's the "I'll jump and down, but I won't really quit" wagon. |
NereSky
Gallente Trinity Nova Trinity Nova Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 20:33:00 -
[3785]
Originally by: NereSky
Originally by: NereSky
Originally by: Delos Korelian
Originally by: Jinx Barker
... ever since the "old" guard of the developers left active EVE online roles CCP customer service, CCP customer attunes, and general CCP attitude toward its player base has gone to shit.
Aint that the truth
Qft
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cavazess
Imperium Nova Secundas
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Posted - 2008.10.15 20:34:00 -
[3786]
Not happy. Not happy at all. This effects me as a dual account player of 2+ years. Its the crazy change to GTC's that has led to one account lapsing with a long skill in progress. I was hoping to hell 30day GTC's would be reintroduced.
I now have little motivation to renew the Alt account. More importantly with this nerf (and its handling) and the upcomming nerfs i have cancelled my main account.
Time to try out something new for awhile. Maybe ill return, mayby not but the addiction to keep SP's going has been severed.
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10of10
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 20:36:00 -
[3787]
Originally by: Random5154
Originally by: Velda Chulai In addition to making this a topic that goes beyond the scope of this thread, you're comparing Internet Spaceships to an international financial disaster? CCP is a for profit company, and this is a terrible way of securing the goal of profit.
A very good post, in seriousness, that I respect. The above point is where I guess we disagree. I don't think making people pay for the service being provided as a 'terrible way of securing profit'. Making people pay for the service provided is what I consider a good business model.
I recognize and acknowledge that there was potential to get some free training before, and when it was reasonably used when people went AFK for a month here and there which made the game attractive to those players, fair enough. However, there is huge potential to also abuse this system, and for that fact I am happy that CCP is plugging the hole.
I see skill training and play time bundled into the $15/month. Others disagree and only see play time in the $15/month, with skill training as a semi-free service. I see "free" as a privilege, not a right. When people started abusing that privilege then everyone lost it.
And back to my first point - if you leaving because of the substance of the change, fair enough. If you leave because of how they communicated it, bye!
Dude go away and stop answering every post. You sir are a pest and need to stop trying to derail this thread. |
Velda Chulai
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 20:36:00 -
[3788]
Edited by: Velda Chulai on 15/10/2008 20:37:43
Originally by: Random5154
Originally by: Velda Chulai In addition to making this a topic that goes beyond the scope of this thread, you're comparing Internet Spaceships to an international financial disaster? CCP is a for profit company, and this is a terrible way of securing the goal of profit.
A very good post, in seriousness, that I respect. The above point is where I guess we disagree. I don't think making people pay for the service being provided as a 'terrible way of securing profit'. Making people pay for the service provided is what I consider a good business model.
I recognize and acknowledge that there was potential to get some free training before, and when it was reasonably used when people went AFK for a month here and there which made the game attractive to those players, fair enough. However, there is huge potential to also abuse this system, and for that fact I am happy that CCP is plugging the hole.
I see skill training and play time bundled into the $15/month. Others disagree and only see play time in the $15/month, with skill training as a semi-free service. I see "free" as a privilege, not a right. When people started abusing that privilege then everyone lost it.
And back to my first point - if you leaving because of the substance of the change, fair enough. If you leave because of how they communicated it, bye!
My original reason for leaving is the change that was made, period. Following the incoherent-at-best explanations on the part of CCP, it didn't so much remind me as bring it to the forefront of my thoughts that CCP is dishonest. Many people have recounted the historical examples; I need not go there. The casual ability to train passively was a much larger selling point and having examined the current other options I probably won't subscribe to another MMORPG (although I am actively looking around). |
Lester Dean
Gallente Vanguard Frontiers Violent-Tendencies
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 20:36:00 -
[3789]
Hehe, destroying any reason to own more than 1 account and chasing out anyone with more than 3 accounts is one way to show what kinda stuff is on the priority list of ccp Hows the next nano0nerf and Bobs rule of 0.0 with all the titans goin by the way?
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Colonel Doror
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 20:41:00 -
[3790]
Edited by: Colonel Doror on 15/10/2008 20:44:25 Edited by: Colonel Doror on 15/10/2008 20:43:17 After reading many posts, about why this is bad, who is leaving, and what they should do to fix it. The one thats caught my eye the most is the "Skill Que System" where you can put 3-5 skills in a que to train back to back. Makes sense, and would ease the tension with a lot of the people who are over reacting and seriously blowing this change out of proportion. Even though it was announced only days before the actual change.
Edit: For those who may be looking for a new MMO because of this change, I would suggest looking into Darkfall at DarkfallOnline.com Edit: Fixed bad URL code |
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CliveMerric
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 20:42:00 -
[3791]
ccp please let us know that you are at least thinking about this. Your terrible decisions are making a player of almost 2 years want to quit.
-3 accounts (if nothing is done) |
Troezar
Personal Vendetta
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 20:42:00 -
[3792]
What a mess! I had already cancelled 2 alt accounts, contemplating my main now and I'm paying to train that not ghost training it. The reason being? CCP has changed, inevitable probably but I don't like the SOE like way they seem to conduct themselves these days.
As I have suggested before is there any connection between that and a growing US corporate style culture?
EVE is/was a great game but perhaps it is only for a lack of a decent alternative (sci-fi) mmo......... |
Flinchey
Amarr ANZAC ALLIANCE Southern Cross Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 20:43:00 -
[3793]
Originally by: Colonel Doror After reading many posts, about why this is bad, who is leaving, and what they should do to fix it. The one thats caught my eye the most is the "Skill Que System" where you can put 3-5 skills in a que to train back to back. Makes sense, and would ease the tension with a lot of the people who are over reacting and seriously blowing this change out of proportion. Even though it was announced only days before the actual change.
how would a skill queue system that lets you make up <1minute (unless you plan like a caveman) of skill training time lost between the changing of skills, make up for the removal of ghost training, which causes days, even weeks, or lost skill training time???
|
Colonel Doror
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 20:47:00 -
[3794]
Originally by: Flinchey
Originally by: Colonel Doror After reading many posts, about why this is bad, who is leaving, and what they should do to fix it. The one thats caught my eye the most is the "Skill Que System" where you can put 3-5 skills in a que to train back to back. Makes sense, and would ease the tension with a lot of the people who are over reacting and seriously blowing this change out of proportion. Even though it was announced only days before the actual change.
how would a skill queue system that lets you make up <1minute (unless you plan like a caveman) of skill training time lost between the changing of skills, make up for the removal of ghost training, which causes days, even weeks, or lost skill training time???
Good question, and I have no answer for you. I have used Ghost Training myself, when I was training my cloaking. But if we can't have it in the game anymore, we might aswell look for a ok alternative to it.
Who knows though, maybe CCP will decide not to take it out, or re-release it later. |
Lag
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 20:48:00 -
[3795]
Just in case anyone has missed this, Vote no (support the thread) to Ghost Training! |
Flinchey
Amarr ANZAC ALLIANCE Southern Cross Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 20:50:00 -
[3796]
Edited by: Flinchey on 15/10/2008 20:51:30
Originally by: Colonel Doror
Originally by: Flinchey
Originally by: Colonel Doror After reading many posts, about why this is bad, who is leaving, and what they should do to fix it. The one thats caught my eye the most is the "Skill Que System" where you can put 3-5 skills in a que to train back to back. Makes sense, and would ease the tension with a lot of the people who are over reacting and seriously blowing this change out of proportion. Even though it was announced only days before the actual change.
how would a skill queue system that lets you make up <1minute (unless you plan like a caveman) of skill training time lost between the changing of skills, make up for the removal of ghost training, which causes days, even weeks, or lost skill training time???
Good question, and I have no answer for you. I have used Ghost Training myself, when I was training my cloaking. But if we can't have it in the game anymore, we might aswell look for a ok alternative to it.
Who knows though, maybe CCP will decide not to take it out, or re-release it later.
assuming from the (so-far) loss of many-thousands of dollars of future monthly revenue (in the past page alone i've probably seen 5-10 subs cancelled). and future loss of potential revenue of new players, from this being a desired feature... this wont go ahead.
as it appears CCP is doing this to draw in more revenue... im sure loss in alienating the player base is unacceptable.
Originally by: Lag Just in case anyone has missed this, Vote no (support the thread) to Ghost Training!
what is the point of a thread identical to this one.. AND the last, locked one.? |
NupetietVer
Neuro Cartographic Services
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 20:53:00 -
[3797]
"Definition of Subscribers EVE Online subscribers include individuals who have paid a subscription fee or have an active electronic time code (ETC) to play EVE Online, as well as those who have purchased the game and are within their free month of access. The above definition excludes all players under free promotional subscriptions, expired or cancelled subscriptions and expired ETCs. "
I love how they changed from Game Time Codes to Electronic Time Code to dodge a potential wording conflict. Thank you for clearing the matter up CCP. |
Peter Greed
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Posted - 2008.10.15 20:54:00 -
[3798]
So cancelled two accounts, decided to give Warhammer a try. Wow.
Non stop action. I love it.
Farewell guys, I'll often think fondly of my time in this game.
Hitmeup ingame for my lootz. |
Cyxopyc
The Dead Parrot Shoppe Inc.
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 20:56:00 -
[3799]
Originally by: Flinchey
how would a skill queue system that lets you make up <1minute (unless you plan like a caveman) of skill training time lost between the changing of skills, make up for the removal of ghost training, which causes days, even weeks, or lost skill training time???
It wouldn't make up for it in skill training points. Especially for those who relied on ghost training for several accounts.
They're taking something away. So it would feel a little like a trade off if we got a skill queue and perhaps other utilities to help with character management (webpage skill change). I lose hours of training for lack of a skill queue.
The truth is we never should have had training on inactive accounts. However, we should have always had a skill queue.
|
Lag
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 20:56:00 -
[3800]
Edited by: Lag on 15/10/2008 20:56:13
Originally by: Lag Just in case anyone has missed this, Vote no (support the thread) to Ghost Training!
what is the point of a thread identical to this one.. AND the last, locked one.?
Because it is a thread where you can actually state whether you support the op or not. CCP might actually get an idea how many people don't want the change. I think the thumbs up for leaving ghost training as is might be something a bunch of 1st graders can understand. |
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Flinchey
Amarr ANZAC ALLIANCE Southern Cross Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 20:56:00 -
[3801]
Originally by: Peter Greed So cancelled two accounts, decided to give Warhammer a try. Wow.
Non stop action. I love it.
Farewell guys, I'll often think fondly of my time in this game.
Hitmeup ingame for my lootz.
join the darklands server or anlec i dont care if you're not oceanic dooooo eeeeeet hit me up in game, flinchy/flinchey.. oh, and destro. dooooooooooo eeeeeeeeeeeet |
VLAD DRACU
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 20:56:00 -
[3802]
<<on Wednesday, Oct 15th, CCP will put out a server update disabling "ghost training">>
when were they supposed to patch it, during dt? coz right now I just consumed 1 x 30d GTC from my secret reserve to reactivate one ghosttraining account but i found out that the char was still grinding the SP's
whas this whole madness just a prank to get more money, did they reconsider it or the job runs in background processing one inactive account a minute? |
Flinchey
Amarr ANZAC ALLIANCE Southern Cross Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 20:57:00 -
[3803]
Edited by: Flinchey on 15/10/2008 20:57:56
Originally by: Lag Edited by: Lag on 15/10/2008 20:56:13
Originally by: Lag Just in case anyone has missed this, Vote no (support the thread) to Ghost Training!
what is the point of a thread identical to this one.. AND the last, locked one.?
Because it is a thread where you can actually state whether you support the op or not. CCP might actually get an idea how many people don't want the change. I think the thumbs up for leaving ghost training as is might be something a bunch of 1st graders can understand.
then its just the opposite of this thread. stating that you dont support the op. (or the very small minority that do) no? EDIT: waitno. from your description its identical to this thread... like i said. |
ghost st
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 20:58:00 -
[3804]
With this CCP should at least give us the full time we are paying for, that means either a skill queue, or some being able to store time spent not training skills.
There should also be a 'leeway' period in which training doesn't stop, even after an account run out on time. (maybe a day or so) so those of us that have to mess with ccps horrible payment system get time to send in our petitions
If your going to make it so we cant use time we didnt pay for to skill, then we should be able to utilize 100% of our paid for time. |
Lag
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 20:59:00 -
[3805]
Originally by: Flinchey Edited by: Flinchey on 15/10/2008 20:57:56
Originally by: Lag Edited by: Lag on 15/10/2008 20:56:13
Originally by: Lag Just in case anyone has missed this, Vote no (support the thread) to Ghost Training!
what is the point of a thread identical to this one.. AND the last, locked one.?
Because it is a thread where you can actually state whether you support the op or not. CCP might actually get an idea how many people don't want the change. I think the thumbs up for leaving ghost training as is might be something a bunch of 1st graders can understand.
then its just the opposite of this thread. stating that you dont support the op. (or the very small minority that do) no? EDIT: waitno. from your description its identical to this thread... like i said.
God you are a moron. Do you see the fekin checkbox when you reply to that post that says "Check here if you want to give your support to the idea/discussion going on". Notice the damn thumbs up under people's names?
-.- |
Kheldon Fel
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 21:02:00 -
[3806]
Originally by: Random5154
Originally by: Kheldon Fel You're not very good at this, are you? Where, in that post, does it say that I've quit eve because CCP hurt my feelings?
So you jump on the bandwagon about having higher standards for boycotting companies that treat you poorly, jump up and down posting about it, but then don't actually boycott the company.
Sorry, I made the assumption that by jumping on that bandwagon you were in the wagon. Meanwhile you are exactly in the wagon I'm posting about. That's the "I'll jump and down, but I won't really quit" wagon.
No, I asked you a simple question and shot down your silly and ill-formed arguments. Do try to keep up.
Also, my accounts will not be renewed (for various reasons, mostly to do with how awesome Warhammer Online is; this change was just icing on the cake), so you're wrong there also. |
Flinchey
Amarr ANZAC ALLIANCE Southern Cross Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 21:03:00 -
[3807]
Originally by: Lag
Originally by: Flinchey Edited by: Flinchey on 15/10/2008 20:57:56
Originally by: Lag Edited by: Lag on 15/10/2008 20:56:13
Originally by: Lag Just in case anyone has missed this, Vote no (support the thread) to Ghost Training!
what is the point of a thread identical to this one.. AND the last, locked one.?
Because it is a thread where you can actually state whether you support the op or not. CCP might actually get an idea how many people don't want the change. I think the thumbs up for leaving ghost training as is might be something a bunch of 1st graders can understand.
then its just the opposite of this thread. stating that you dont support the op. (or the very small minority that do) no? EDIT: waitno. from your description its identical to this thread... like i said.
God you are a moron. Do you see the fekin checkbox when you reply to that post that says "Check here if you want to give your support to the idea/discussion going on". Notice the damn thumbs up under people's names?
-.-
well then ahem i quite obviously am :-\ 7am and i still haven't slept. *makes excuse for stupidity and lack of spelling*
though if CCP hasn't noticed by now. with 125 pages, 95% negative. it might not doo a hellofalot. >_> |
Venezia Dawn
Caldari The VD Clinic Violent-Tendencies
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 21:05:00 -
[3808]
Originally by: VLAD DRACU <<on Wednesday, Oct 15th, CCP will put out a server update disabling "ghost training">>
when were they supposed to patch it, during dt? coz right now I just consumed 1 x 30d GTC from my secret reserve to reactivate one ghosttraining account but i found out that the char was still grinding the SP's
whas this whole madness just a prank to get more money, did they reconsider it or the job runs in background processing one inactive account a minute?
You're not alone. |
VLAD DRACU
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 21:06:00 -
[3809]
Originally by: Venezia Dawn
Originally by: VLAD DRACU <<on Wednesday, Oct 15th, CCP will put out a server update disabling "ghost training">>
when were they supposed to patch it, during dt? coz right now I just consumed 1 x 30d GTC from my secret reserve to reactivate one ghosttraining account but i found out that the char was still grinding the SP's
whas this whole madness just a prank to get more money, did they reconsider it or the job runs in background processing one inactive account a minute?
You're not alone.
i got rickrolled! |
ZeCamerone
Caldari 20th Legion
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 21:06:00 -
[3810]
Originally by: CCP t0rfifrans The bug that became a feature
On Monday, we released news that we are disabling äGhost Trainingô, the ability to train characters on inactive accounts. This resulted in strong reactions from the community as many people were routinely making use of it. We explained the matter in more detail and pointed out that this had been a bug in the original game code. Those of us who were involved in the process of making the decision and communicating it to the community did not realize this bug had been so accepted as a feature that it was listed as such in our own documentation on our own website.
How can we not know whatæs in our own documentation? Well, to be frank, it was a case of insufficient communication on our part between various teams û a regrettable mistake and hard lesson to learn at the expense of the trust youæve placed in us. Thereæs no way to spin it and we wonæt add insult to injury by trying to do so. It was a mistake on our part and for that we sincerely and humbly apologize.
Many would hope that in light of this we will decide not to cancel ghost training and keep it active as an option but weære cannot to do that. EVE is already one-of-a-kind in allowing players to progress their characters through offline skill training. We stand by our policy that if you want your character to progress in EVE, you should pay the subscription fee. The fact that so many people have been able to do so for several years was our own oversight. We know this change, and our misstep in telling you about it, has created some discontent and we hope that over time we can prove our committment to make EVE better than ever for you will be evident as you enjoy the fruits of our labor.
Torfi
I think EvE would still be a one-of-a-kind game if you had to spend that much time ONLINE in order to progess... |
|
Cyxopyc
The Dead Parrot Shoppe Inc.
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 21:07:00 -
[3811]
Originally by: VLAD DRACU <<on Wednesday, Oct 15th, CCP will put out a server update disabling "ghost training">>
when were they supposed to patch it, during dt? coz right now I just consumed 1 x 30d GTC from my secret reserve to reactivate one ghosttraining account but i found out that the char was still grinding the SP's
whas this whole madness just a prank to get more money, did they reconsider it or the job runs in background processing one inactive account a minute?
It may be that accounts that were inactive before October 15 2008 and training continued to train... |
Cristl
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 21:13:00 -
[3812]
Still not found a way to 'unhide' this thread?
Sure, no censorship here then... |
Lord Melon
KOVEN Industries
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 21:18:00 -
[3813]
This is yet another time that I see CCP COMPLETELY ignore its customers, as if they are beyond that sort of thing :S There have been great compromises and suggestions possible, as well as rather hard-hitting accusations, that CCP have just simply ignored. I cant imagine any other business ignoring this level of outrage - even from customers that welcomed the change for heavens sake !
Originally by: Azraeljbs SNIP Following are suggestions I've read in this thread from more than just one individual that CCP should seriously take into consideration before sledge hammering a FEATURE out of the game.
1.) As others have suggested in earlier posts perhaps you could institute a pay for training scheme that would allow a player to keep an inactive account semi-active enough to train the longer skill sets, as a lot of people do take breaks for mutliple and varied reasons, some beyond their control. I would suggest about $5.00-$8.00 a month. 2.) Institute a skill queue system that allows a player to queue a set of skills to be trained in a certain order. I believe a fair amount would be up to 3 or 4 skill levels. The CSM could hash this out with CCP,(after all that's their job). 3.) Allow 2 of the 3 characters on one account to train simultaneously. Most other MMO's allow for more than one character per account to be leveled at a time, however I can see the down side to this and why CCP would not want such a game mechanic. This could have restrictions such as only one character able to train a LVL 5 skill at once or even more restrictive the "alt" could only train skills up to LVL 3 while a LVL 4 or 5 was training on the other character. Yet again the CSM would have to hash this one out.
There are other options than just simply taking something away without giving anything in return. Especially when so many have grown accustomed to something so simple and yet so profound as training a skill while your account is inactive. My preference is the first suggestion, this will generate revenue for CCP and possibly give them some of the money they seem to be grasping for without alienating a large chunk of their veteran player base. I seriously hope they are monitoring and reading the responses from their player base on this subject. If they are not than they have lost touch with their players and EVE will indeed soon fail.
/end wall of text
I would like to add a couple of ideas, sorry if they already mentioned............ -) Ghost training will be 2, 3 4 even 10 times longer, maybe combined with the option to pay 1$ a month to train faster, or 5$ a month to train at full speed -) Ghost training time will be limited based on last 12mth's paid time - so if you were sub for 12months, get up to 2 month ghost time. Sub for 2 months, get 1 week etc
Unfortunately, it seems as if CCP are now dictating the terms under which we must play THIER game, and clearly are NOT listening to anyone at all. Given this, why would anyone want to play a game where there was someone constantly moving the goal-posts with a Jovian power of God approach?
Not me for one, and certainly not my other buddies, that already quit.
1 month from now, I will be alone, even if I didnt object enough over this to quit myself And no - you cant have my stuff, and nor can CCP - It's going to charity :) |
Velda Chulai
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 21:20:00 -
[3814]
Originally by: Cristl Still not found a way to 'unhide' this thread?
Sure, no censorship here then...
Can anyone see the original dev log post which linked to this thread directly? II noticed inconsistency with the blogid's, which would indicate that something's gone missing, but more importantly I think is that the thread link has vanished.
I think this is the forth lie I've counted. Fifth if you also consider the "hidden" thread. |
Aesynil
Caldari The Unit...
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 21:23:00 -
[3815]
So much for ever getting Carrier V trained...Figured it'd be a good goal to set, when I decide to take a break from the game, and a wonderful encouragement to reactive my account. Did anybody notice that they ninja-edited the player guide to fix that little 'typo' claiming training skills while your account is inactive was a feature? |
Grimnir
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 21:24:00 -
[3816]
Originally by: ZeCamerone
Originally by: CCP t0rfifrans The bug that became a feature
On Monday, we released news that we are disabling äGhost Trainingô, the ability to train characters on inactive accounts. This resulted in strong reactions from the community as many people were routinely making use of it. We explained the matter in more detail and pointed out that this had been a bug in the original game code. Those of us who were involved in the process of making the decision and communicating it to the community did not realize this bug had been so accepted as a feature that it was listed as such in our own documentation on our own website.
How can we not know whatæs in our own documentation? Well, to be frank, it was a case of insufficient communication on our part between various teams û a regrettable mistake and hard lesson to learn at the expense of the trust youæve placed in us. Thereæs no way to spin it and we wonæt add insult to injury by trying to do so. It was a mistake on our part and for that we sincerely and humbly apologize.
Many would hope that in light of this we will decide not to cancel ghost training and keep it active as an option but weære cannot to do that. EVE is already one-of-a-kind in allowing players to progress their characters through offline skill training. We stand by our policy that if you want your character to progress in EVE, you should pay the subscription fee. The fact that so many people have been able to do so for several years was our own oversight. We know this change, and our misstep in telling you about it, has created some discontent and we hope that over time we can prove our committment to make EVE better than ever for you will be evident as you enjoy the fruits of our labor.
Torfi
I think EvE would still be a one-of-a-kind game if you had to spend that much time ONLINE in order to progess...
You don't have to spend that much time online, you just have to *pay* for your character; what's so difficult about this concept ? |
Grimnir
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 21:26:00 -
[3817]
Originally by: Cyxopyc
Originally by: VLAD DRACU <<on Wednesday, Oct 15th, CCP will put out a server update disabling "ghost training">>
when were they supposed to patch it, during dt? coz right now I just consumed 1 x 30d GTC from my secret reserve to reactivate one ghosttraining account but i found out that the char was still grinding the SP's
whas this whole madness just a prank to get more money, did they reconsider it or the job runs in background processing one inactive account a minute?
It may be that accounts that were inactive before October 15 2008 and training continued to train...
They said that a character has to be inactive for a few days before its skill will be terminated. It wasn't a kill switch that would be engaged today and every recurring downtime. |
Kage Psychodin
Caldari The Empire Nation Worlds End Consortium
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 21:26:00 -
[3818]
I would not be at all surprised if there is a much smarter intent behind the change.
The idea is this - Nerf ghost training so not as many people train capital ships. the disparity of those with the income and those without to do this slowly divides the game further since better 0.0 and more heavily invested alliances grow a larger power disparity. (same for smaller ships, even.)
Capital ships and titan power and difficulty to train becomes greater, and less and less people can manage that. then, one big capital ship and titan nerf. not enough reason to nerf something? create one. (although if the titan just lost the DDD I'd be haphaphappy) |
ZeCamerone
Caldari 20th Legion
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 21:29:00 -
[3819]
Originally by: Grimnir
Originally by: ZeCamerone
Originally by: CCP t0rfifrans The bug that became a feature
On Monday, we released news that we are disabling äGhost Trainingô, the ability to train characters on inactive accounts. This resulted in strong reactions from the community as many people were routinely making use of it. We explained the matter in more detail and pointed out that this had been a bug in the original game code. Those of us who were involved in the process of making the decision and communicating it to the community did not realize this bug had been so accepted as a feature that it was listed as such in our own documentation on our own website.
How can we not know whatæs in our own documentation? Well, to be frank, it was a case of insufficient communication on our part between various teams û a regrettable mistake and hard lesson to learn at the expense of the trust youæve placed in us. Thereæs no way to spin it and we wonæt add insult to injury by trying to do so. It was a mistake on our part and for that we sincerely and humbly apologize.
Many would hope that in light of this we will decide not to cancel ghost training and keep it active as an option but weære cannot to do that. EVE is already one-of-a-kind in allowing players to progress their characters through offline skill training. We stand by our policy that if you want your character to progress in EVE, you should pay the subscription fee. The fact that so many people have been able to do so for several years was our own oversight. We know this change, and our misstep in telling you about it, has created some discontent and we hope that over time we can prove our committment to make EVE better than ever for you will be evident as you enjoy the fruits of our labor.
Torfi
I think EvE would still be a one-of-a-kind game if you had to spend that much time ONLINE in order to progess...
You don't have to spend that much time online, you just have to *pay* for your character; what's so difficult about this concept ?
What part of my post is so difficult for YOU to comprehend? IF you had to be online in order to train skills...(Notice that you can train skills offline atm. I know, basic conecpt, but just making sure I don't lose ya.) I bolded a sentence in my post for a reason, but obviously that wasn't enough.
Thus, IF we had to be online to train skills, EvE would still be one-of-a-kind due to it's exorbitant training times. |
Shakillyaa
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 21:30:00 -
[3820]
5 years to fix a bug. bwahahahahah loosers maybe it's time to try wow. |
|
Kirja
R.u.S.H. Red Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 21:30:00 -
[3821]
CCP do you realize that whenever somebody gets tired of EVE.. the fact that there is some sweet lvl 5 skill completed that unlocks new toys is a HUGE temptation to reactivate account?
I would advise you to fire all your marketing people because they are cluesless idiots doing more harm than good. |
Gabriel Virtus
Cassandra's Light Caeruleum Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 21:32:00 -
[3822]
Nearly 36 hours of posting this thread and a TECHNOLOGY company cannot figure out how to fix this thread magically being hidden. Keep it going CCP, maybe you can successfully **** off every one and completely destroy the game.
BLATANT CENSORSHIP.
UNHIDE THIS THIS THREAD NOW
-GV |
Avalon Champion
Gallente Defence Evaluation Research Agency
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 21:32:00 -
[3823]
Dont want to derail the thread, but its Tin foil time : new content announced today
http://www.eve-online.com/pressreleases/default.asp?pressReleaseID=48
Skill training tree would be helpful, especially for those awkward skills that take odd hours xd12h or xd8h and always seem to finish when your at work or fast asleep or going away for a weekend.
PS : not cancelling the 2 accounts i run just yet, but we'll see what happens in the future. |
Shard Merchant
Minmatar
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 21:33:00 -
[3824]
So guys, when is this thread going to make its debut in the public limelight? |
10of10
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 21:35:00 -
[3825]
Originally by: Shard Merchant So guys, when is this thread going to make its debut in the public limelight?
Get real.......NEVER |
Mumemafu Praetoriam
Minmatar Comando Vermelho
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 21:36:00 -
[3826]
Edited by: Mumemafu Praetoriam on 15/10/2008 21:44:46 well CCP dont need horry about the poors, if you wanna get some fun, pay ( expensive) for it. before the recent crash in the global econimic, in my country I was paying 1,67 Reais per dollar, now I need pay 2,41 per dollar. I ve 3 acounts and I have been played since 2004. After the "good news" about Nanonerf, we got now the Trainning Ghost setted like a bug, well, realy is time to move my bits around. I know who's care about the poor? I know some nasty rich guy will say "may a have your stuff now?" well done CCP every time I think you did a bad choose, you did it again.
your remmaning time: Tempo de jogo restante: 6d:16h:19m
So sorry about my bad english, I cant pay for a teacher to help me.
cheers if you'rent not Brazilian and not Minmatar too.
re-edited to fix some "bugs" |
Avalon Champion
Gallente Defence Evaluation Research Agency
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 21:38:00 -
[3827]
Originally by: 10of10
Originally by: Shard Merchant So guys, when is this thread going to make its debut in the public limelight?
Get real.......NEVER
unless people post the topic link in thier locals, and let pther players know it exists of course..... |
Shard Merchant
Minmatar
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 21:44:00 -
[3828]
Originally by: Avalon Champion
Originally by: 10of10
Originally by: Shard Merchant So guys, when is this thread going to make its debut in the public limelight?
Get real.......NEVER
unless people post the topic link in thier locals, and let pther players know it exists of course.....
Then it becomes a cult hit, not a public discussion ;p |
10of10
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 21:47:00 -
[3829]
A friend contacted 4 of the bigger MMO's publications alerting them to the fact that CCP is censoring our outcry. Im sure this will be great PR for them.. |
Deviana Sevidon
Gallente Panta-Rhei United Front Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 21:48:00 -
[3830]
I would like to ask CCP to go one step further and also remove the automatic accumulation of Research Points. |
|
Jack TheSlayer
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 21:49:00 -
[3831]
Originally by: Shakillyaa 5 years to fix a bug. bwahahahahah loosers maybe it's time to try wow.
lol looks like wow gonna get a increase in accounts very soon |
Lydia Bennet
Caldari Alloyed Tritanium Bar And Grill
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 21:51:00 -
[3832]
CCP: "We're removing a feature from the game." Emoragequitters: "Please don't, it's a good feature. Some of us even consider it a deal-breaker, and might seek other entertainment if you do." CCP: "We're removing it anyway." ERQs: "Oh well, guess we'll go play something else then." 12-year old morons: "OMG YOU BRITISH CIGARETTES! EMORAGEQUITTERS ARE EMO! AND QUITTERS! AND THEY RAGE! How dare you express your opinion, you're not entitled to do that! You're all commies anyway!"
That's the kind of dialogue I love on teh intrawebs. |
Avalon Champion
Gallente Defence Evaluation Research Agency
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 21:51:00 -
[3833]
Originally by: Shard Merchant
Originally by: Avalon Champion
Originally by: 10of10
Originally by: Shard Merchant So guys, when is this thread going to make its debut in the public limelight?
Get real.......NEVER
unless people post the topic link in thier locals, and let pther players know it exists of course.....
Then it becomes a cult hit, not a public discussion ;p
Either way your damed, CCP accused of a coverup, Players accused of Tin foil hattery.
If you want the player base to know about it post it in local, if you want to play the tin foil card ignore it, and accuse CCP of a cover up.
The only way to open it up is to tell people it exists, the only way to do that is post the thread in local as all other threads appear to get locked within a couple of pages. |
10of10
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 21:55:00 -
[3834]
Edited by: 10of10 on 15/10/2008 21:55:16 To post this link in local will be considered griefing and you can be banned for it. |
Greenbolt
Minmatar Minmatar Ship Construction Services Ushra'Khan
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 21:56:00 -
[3835]
Originally by: Lydia Bennet CCP: "We're removing a feature from the game." Emoragequitters: "Please don't, it's a good feature. Some of us even consider it a deal-breaker, and might seek other entertainment if you do." CCP: "We're removing it anyway." ERQs: "Oh well, guess we'll go play something else then." 12-year old morons: "OMG YOU BRITISH CIGARETTES! EMORAGEQUITTERS ARE EMO! AND QUITTERS! AND THEY RAGE! How dare you express your opinion, you're not entitled to do that! You're all commies anyway!"
That's the kind of dialogue I love on teh intrawebs.
My gawd..this quote wins. (and your right. Its fun that people whine about the whiners...does that make them emo whiners too?) |
Loc Maythan
Gallente AlfaCorp
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 21:59:00 -
[3836]
Originally by: Hot Cake
Originally by: Loc Maythan
Originally by: Ilda Mrika
Originally by: C601 What's with all the ****ing whiners ..
Its pay to play, don't like it build your own mmo with ghost training in effect !!!!!
The issue is pay to skill up and not pay to play. Post when you understand what subject is in discussion
The issue for me is not whether ghost-training exists or not - I've never knowingly used it, I have a single character, I don't care if they remove it.
The issue for me (and many people) is the way that have done it - not going to re-post what I said previously. Suffice to say: short notice, power of 2, GTCs, "it's unintended but let's market it as a feature", "it causes strain on the DB", stealth edit to user guide, no feedback in one of the longest thread on EO.
I'd just like them to 'fess up and say "we're tired of people training without paying, so you've got 3 months before we pull the plug". Honest, and gives people who haven't seen the news or this thread time to do something about it, rather than quitting when they come back to find thier training stopped while they were away, despite what the user guide said when they left.
I'm not going to leave because of it, but it is another big mark against CCP in my book.
Loc.
Dude it¦s not free riding, or a "bug", it¦s game mechanics as it was meant to be, so why change it after 102 months,
simple answer = $$$$$greed$$$$$
Reading FTW ;-) That's exactly what I said!
Loc. |
Lana Ground
Caldari Galactic Accord State Navy Academy Accord Corporate Enterprise Syndicate
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 22:00:00 -
[3837]
Originally by: NereSky
Originally by: NereSky
Originally by: NereSky
Originally by: Delos Korelian
Originally by: Jinx Barker
... ever since the "old" guard of the developers left active EVE online roles CCP customer service, CCP customer attunes, and general CCP attitude toward its player base has gone to shit.
Aint that the truth
Qft
AMEN |
Erimisha
Minmatar
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 22:00:00 -
[3838]
Originally by: Velda Chulai
As for insurence terms, we read and understand our terms. Luckily we've never had to make a claim but we understand phrases like "Acts of God" (which is really an easier-to-swallow catch all for "anomalous events")
I guess that's better than the insurance company going "Our logs show nothing.." |
Deviana Sevidon
Gallente Panta-Rhei United Front Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 22:02:00 -
[3839]
I would like to give you the following quote from a member from MMORPG.
The User Enkidu said the perfect response to most people here:
Quote: I've been playing EvE for 4 years on and off. I never used "ghost training" because it seemed unethical to me- sort of like buying a suit to wear to a job interview and then returning it afterward. I've worked in several industries and professions, and I don't recall ever feeling obligated to provide service to a customer who had stopped paying for that service. Many of my associates in the game would say "I'm going inactive while I train BS V," or something similar- amd it always struck me as a bit sleazy.
here's a phenomenon I like to call "ungrateful housepet syndrome:"
When you scratch a dog's head, the dog likes it, and the dog gets used to it.
When you stop, the dog doesn't think "wow that was nice, thanks for scratching my head while it lasted," but rather looks at you as if to say "why the hell are you stopping? how dare you!"
People are the same way.. if you offer them access to a pleasant or advantageous situation and they get used to it, and then circumstances change for PERFECTLY VALID reasons, they NEVER say "hey thanks, that was cool while it lasted..." but rather "this sucks! I'm getting screwed!"
Things like this are just part of a constantly growing mountain of evidence that more and more people have no sense of personal honor or the desire to do the right thing JUST BECAUSE it's the right thing to do. All people care about is what they can get away with. Okay, you can get back to the whinefest now.
Woof.
|
Rouque Vanderbuilt
Nuts and Bolts
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 22:03:00 -
[3840]
Originally by: Erimisha
Originally by: Velda Chulai
As for insurence terms, we read and understand our terms. Luckily we've never had to make a claim but we understand phrases like "Acts of God" (which is really an easier-to-swallow catch all for "anomalous events")
I guess that's better than the insurance company going "Our logs show nothing.."
CCP guy 1: Hey. Check the logs! We got many petitions. CCP guy 2: Which log?
|
|
Demonos Silentium
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 22:08:00 -
[3841]
Originally by: Deviana Sevidon I would like to give you the following quote from a member from MMORPG.
The User Enkidu said the perfect response to most people here:
Quote: I've been playing EvE for 4 years on and off. I never used "ghost training" because it seemed unethical to me- sort of like buying a suit to wear to a job interview and then returning it afterward. I've worked in several industries and professions, and I don't recall ever feeling obligated to provide service to a customer who had stopped paying for that service. Many of my associates in the game would say "I'm going inactive while I train BS V," or something similar- amd it always struck me as a bit sleazy.
here's a phenomenon I like to call "ungrateful housepet syndrome:"
When you scratch a dog's head, the dog likes it, and the dog gets used to it.
When you stop, the dog doesn't think "wow that was nice, thanks for scratching my head while it lasted," but rather looks at you as if to say "why the hell are you stopping? how dare you!"
People are the same way.. if you offer them access to a pleasant or advantageous situation and they get used to it, and then circumstances change for PERFECTLY VALID reasons, they NEVER say "hey thanks, that was cool while it lasted..." but rather "this sucks! I'm getting screwed!"
Things like this are just part of a constantly growing mountain of evidence that more and more people have no sense of personal honor or the desire to do the right thing JUST BECAUSE it's the right thing to do. All people care about is what they can get away with. Okay, you can get back to the whinefest now.
Woof.
this gets my vote too. well put sir! |
Sir JoJo
Minmatar Destructive Influence Band of Brothers
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 22:13:00 -
[3842]
i like it. introduce this ccp!
so many ppl threathing to quit ;) maybe the server will become less laggy ;)
|
Helen Sugoraki
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 22:14:00 -
[3843]
I just hope Jumpgate Evolution is fun. |
Marius Duvall
Amarr Merch Industrial GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 22:15:00 -
[3844]
Originally by: Demonos Silentium
Originally by: Deviana Sevidon I would like to give you the following quote from a member from MMORPG.
The User Enkidu said the perfect response to most people here:
Quote: I've been playing EvE for 4 years on and off. I never used "ghost training" because it seemed unethical to me- sort of like buying a suit to wear to a job interview and then returning it afterward. I've worked in several industries and professions, and I don't recall ever feeling obligated to provide service to a customer who had stopped paying for that service. Many of my associates in the game would say "I'm going inactive while I train BS V," or something similar- amd it always struck me as a bit sleazy.
here's a phenomenon I like to call "ungrateful housepet syndrome:"
When you scratch a dog's head, the dog likes it, and the dog gets used to it.
When you stop, the dog doesn't think "wow that was nice, thanks for scratching my head while it lasted," but rather looks at you as if to say "why the hell are you stopping? how dare you!"
People are the same way.. if you offer them access to a pleasant or advantageous situation and they get used to it, and then circumstances change for PERFECTLY VALID reasons, they NEVER say "hey thanks, that was cool while it lasted..." but rather "this sucks! I'm getting screwed!"
Things like this are just part of a constantly growing mountain of evidence that more and more people have no sense of personal honor or the desire to do the right thing JUST BECAUSE it's the right thing to do. All people care about is what they can get away with. Okay, you can get back to the whinefest now.
Woof.
this gets my vote too. well put sir!
I don't get how it's perceived as unethical or immoral if it's advertised in the players guide. |
Tito Sajic
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 22:16:00 -
[3845]
Originally by: Deviana Sevidon I would like to give you the following quote from a member from MMORPG.
The User Enkidu said the perfect response to most people here:
Quote: I've been playing EvE for 4 years on and off. I never used "ghost training" because it seemed unethical to me- sort of like buying a suit to wear to a job interview and then returning it afterward. I've worked in several industries and professions, and I don't recall ever feeling obligated to provide service to a customer who had stopped paying for that service. Many of my associates in the game would say "I'm going inactive while I train BS V," or something similar- amd it always struck me as a bit sleazy.
here's a phenomenon I like to call "ungrateful housepet syndrome:"
When you scratch a dog's head, the dog likes it, and the dog gets used to it.
When you stop, the dog doesn't think "wow that was nice, thanks for scratching my head while it lasted," but rather looks at you as if to say "why the hell are you stopping? how dare you!"
People are the same way.. if you offer them access to a pleasant or advantageous situation and they get used to it, and then circumstances change for PERFECTLY VALID reasons, they NEVER say "hey thanks, that was cool while it lasted..." but rather "this sucks! I'm getting screwed!"
Things like this are just part of a constantly growing mountain of evidence that more and more people have no sense of personal honor or the desire to do the right thing JUST BECAUSE it's the right thing to do. All people care about is what they can get away with. Okay, you can get back to the whinefest now.
Woof.
"I never used "ghost training" because it seemed unethical to me"
lol. Looks like he got his BullS**t V skill alright.
Very Very Unethical, so unethical that the older versions of the user guide explained how to take full advantage of this unspeakable act. Oh my goodness the horror. |
DonGimli
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 22:19:00 -
[3846]
Originally by: Deviana Sevidon I would like to give you the following quote from a member from MMORPG.
The User Enkidu said the perfect response to most people here:
Quote: I've been playing EvE for 4 years on and off. I never used "ghost training" because it seemed unethical to me- sort of like buying a suit to wear to a job interview and then returning it afterward. I've worked in several industries and professions, and I don't recall ever feeling obligated to provide service to a customer who had stopped paying for that service. Many of my associates in the game would say "I'm going inactive while I train BS V," or something similar- amd it always struck me as a bit sleazy.
here's a phenomenon I like to call "ungrateful housepet syndrome:"
When you scratch a dog's head, the dog likes it, and the dog gets used to it.
When you stop, the dog doesn't think "wow that was nice, thanks for scratching my head while it lasted," but rather looks at you as if to say "why the hell are you stopping? how dare you!"
People are the same way.. if you offer them access to a pleasant or advantageous situation and they get used to it, and then circumstances change for PERFECTLY VALID reasons, they NEVER say "hey thanks, that was cool while it lasted..." but rather "this sucks! I'm getting screwed!"
Things like this are just part of a constantly growing mountain of evidence that more and more people have no sense of personal honor or the desire to do the right thing JUST BECAUSE it's the right thing to do. All people care about is what they can get away with. Okay, you can get back to the whinefest now.
Woof.
the CCP is stronng in this one... |
Asith
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 22:23:00 -
[3847]
CCP this is daft as people have already mentioned Inactive training was in the new player guide until yesterday (now youve changed it)
Youve lowered the length of the GTCs, now you hit us with this, youre making it really hard to run 2 accounts, already my fellow corp mates can no longer run there multiple accounts, as a result youll end up loosing more money
TBH EVE seems to be going down the drain, alot of people are starting to find the game is boring and lost its edge, if youre not careful youll drive away previosuly loyal customers
I have to admit i do train my main account inactively when doing long skills like cruiser 5, but not i might just sell the account for ISK as a student i cant afford to run 2 accounts all the time, ghost training gave me a nice break to save up some cash to play
Im not going emo quit now but youve ****ed off alot of people |
Velda Chulai
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 22:23:00 -
[3848]
Edited by: Velda Chulai on 15/10/2008 22:26:51
Originally by: Deviana Sevidon I would like to give you the following quote from a member from MMORPG.
The User Enkidu said the perfect response to most people here:
Quote: I've been playing EvE for 4 years on and off. I never used "ghost training" because it seemed unethical to me- sort of like buying a suit to wear to a job interview and then returning it afterward. I've worked in several industries and professions, and I don't recall ever feeling obligated to provide service to a customer who had stopped paying for that service. Many of my associates in the game would say "I'm going inactive while I train BS V," or something similar- amd it always struck me as a bit sleazy.
here's a phenomenon I like to call "ungrateful housepet syndrome:"
When you scratch a dog's head, the dog likes it, and the dog gets used to it.
When you stop, the dog doesn't think "wow that was nice, thanks for scratching my head while it lasted," but rather looks at you as if to say "why the hell are you stopping? how dare you!"
People are the same way.. if you offer them access to a pleasant or advantageous situation and they get used to it, and then circumstances change for PERFECTLY VALID reasons, they NEVER say "hey thanks, that was cool while it lasted..." but rather "this sucks! I'm getting screwed!"
Things like this are just part of a constantly growing mountain of evidence that more and more people have no sense of personal honor or the desire to do the right thing JUST BECAUSE it's the right thing to do. All people care about is what they can get away with. Okay, you can get back to the whinefest now.
Woof.
Am I grateful for my Internet service provider? Only as far as they are activists and that they provide a great bandwidth plan. Now I'm sure no one actually uses 200GB of transfer, and I'm not even sure if I even come close, but the moment I lose my bandwidth plan you can bet that I'll be looking for better options.
Enkidu's values or personal sense of "honor" should have no baring on the rest of the Eve community. As it is, many of us don't like this change. I love Eve a lot, but CCP has decided to remove a part of the game that I liked enough that it renders the eve as something I can leave. Unlike an Internet connection I won't need to look for alternates, and I can scrutinize the service provider.
I think what CCP wasn't aware of is that they have a unique player-base. We're far more casual while simultaneously capable of taking parts of the game seriously. |
islador
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 22:29:00 -
[3849]
Watch yourself CCP, this trend is the same downward spiral that leads to revolution and the murder of government officials in nations. You've lost the chance to step up and tell us the truth, but you've still got a chance to save your player base. |
ViolenTUK
Gallente Vindicated Exiles
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 22:34:00 -
[3850]
CCP it isn't too late to reverse this deplorable and quite unethical decision. |
|
Tito Sajic
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 22:36:00 -
[3851]
Originally by: ViolenTUK CCP it isn't too late to reverse this deplorable and quite unethical decision.
I'll give them three days...coincidentally that gives them more time than what they gave us. |
Aryen Striker
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 22:36:00 -
[3852]
Just lots of people whinning about a free-bee.
Good on you CCP, paying subscribers only ... clean out the DB trash.
Pay a subscription or go to a free MMORPG
The list is endless .............. not.
|
Dirk Massive
Armada.
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 22:39:00 -
[3853]
Yes I have to agree with most of you here. The game mechanics require you to have multiple accounts just to survive. And in 0.0 especially. Currently I have 3 accounts. One is a fresh power of 2 account who was going to be my miner. The other 2 I used to pvp with and haul. I've already cancelled one of my main accounts. I doubt I'll renew my new power of 2 account now when the time comes here in a few months. Not sure what this will do to my Final Eve account. No way no how I'm going to pay to join the characters of 3 accounts all onto one account. And I doubt I'll make due just with one account. So soon I will probably be gone myself sadly. And I refuse to keep paying for GTC to sell for ISK to maintain my PVP addictions.
CCP I think you kinda screwed yourself at the same time you screwed all of us who have been here for years. Obviously your going to squeeze and squeeze your gamers to the point where only a few of the diehards will be left. In an effort to try and make more money, I think CCP is going to find, they will end up losing more in the long run. Time will tell I guess. |
Asith
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 22:40:00 -
[3854]
This topic kinda shows tht people obviosuly have strong feelings against this, i personally they reverse the change |
DeODokktor
Dark Templars The Fonz Presidium
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 22:40:00 -
[3855]
Originally by: Aryen Striker Just lots of people whinning about a free-bee.
Good on you CCP, paying subscribers only ... clean out the DB trash.
Actually... It adds a little more to the DB.. CCP was telling porkies as it'll grow the DB a bit more.. I think that things in game are tied together in such ways that purging details is something they cant do without suffering a huge chance of making it all go BOOMAH |
Echo Gemini
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 22:43:00 -
[3856]
!!!!!.. My mood has reached killing mode ... I've just eaten, and I think I'm going to puke. I simply cannot believe it. It's so ... sadistic and hypocritical.
Are there too many players in Jita, right?.. What to do?! What to do?!
Well then, let's get everyone ****ed! Except for the idiots that are willing to eat there one semi-digested food, and will pay, that is!.. First let's make them pay for every skill point. A dollar each, should be enough [for now] ... don't you agree?
Oh my god! I feel so sick! I really don't get it!.. You know... I really don't know who is in the CCP's board of directory, but if I'm going to meet only one of them, i'm going to spit in his face. Players are stakeholders, right? Then we have rights, RIGHT? The only options i see here is if I'm going to fly again or not [i will smile though]...
Is so repulsive. I cannot believe that I'm going to hate EvE. I don't wanna walk through stations, or any "brilliant" idea you think of. Just want to fly! Is that so hard to understand!
Why are you needing more money? You really think this is the way to do it? After a while, when in EvE will be no more players left, will you apologize?
Personally, I've manage to calm myself down [i think]! But you know what? I think after awhile your disrespect will grow, and what fun day will be ...
Bad decisions will end you one way or another! FUN! |
Ryman Dmoani
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 22:44:00 -
[3857]
Edited by: Ryman Dmoani on 15/10/2008 22:44:43 some of you are resolved to accept the mediocre offering of an excuse by CCP that this was an "unintended" in a program that by definition operates as intended, or not at all... of course glitches and exploits exist, but it took 5 years to all of a sudden become an unintended exploit...
nevermind that ghost training was originally listed and until some time ago stated in the player guide as a FEATURE of the game, an important one to those mature players who have a real life outside of eve who wish to participate but do not have the time to hunt boars in the woods as in WOW...
nevermind that some people chose to subscribe to this game in the first place and create many additional accounts because this was a STATED FEATURE of the game and because the expectation was that the feature would remain caused them to create more accounts than otherwise or even become involved in the game at all...
go ahead you can spin things all you like... but to pretend that this was some accident that we should all be grateful for having existed but resigned to accept its removal is extremely naive... |
Asith
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 22:45:00 -
[3858]
/me wonders what the fanfest this year will be like .... imagines tomatoe throwing at the devs....... |
Velda Chulai
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 22:47:00 -
[3859]
Edited by: Velda Chulai on 15/10/2008 22:52:12
Originally by: Aryen Striker Just lots of people whinning about a free-bee.
Good on you CCP, paying subscribers only ... clean out the DB trash.
Pay a subscription or go to a free MMORPG
The list is endless .............. not.
CCP currently does not have plan to erase unsubscribed accounts. Seeing as they've had the infrastructure to shut off unsubscribed training for as long as they've done it on Serenity, virtually nothing will change at the database level.
Don't believe me? Check out: http://myeve.eve-online.com/updates/patchnotes.asp?patchlogID=99 Under Miscellaneous:
Quote:
# On the Serenity server, skills no longer train when the owning account is deactivated. Tranquility is not affected by this change.
|
necronarcosis
Shadow Company Axiom Empire
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 22:48:00 -
[3860]
Edited by: necronarcosis on 15/10/2008 22:51:42 Edited by: necronarcosis on 15/10/2008 22:51:23 Edited by: necronarcosis on 15/10/2008 22:50:07 where is the EFFIN skill Q to help counter this crap! you have known about it for years, We have wanted it for years Yet you done nothing!!!!
stop thinking of your playerbase as a afterthought or u may just be joining your banking system! i direct you to this statement .I.. |
|
10of10
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 22:48:00 -
[3861]
Edited by: 10of10 on 15/10/2008 22:49:33 Edited by: 10of10 on 15/10/2008 22:48:27 CCP does NOT care how you feel or think, they dont care if you run this thread up to 300 pages as long as you continue to PAY. And they are betting on the fact your so addicted that you can't push the unsubscribe button. As far as they are concerned they own your Eve addicted soul.. Muhahahah |
Sammy Dave
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 22:49:00 -
[3862]
Is it just me or is the server graph down? Wanted to see how many online tonight. |
Cosy Ceaon
Gallente Aliastra
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 22:50:00 -
[3863]
Edited by: Cosy Ceaon on 15/10/2008 22:51:30
Originally by: Asith /me wonders what the fanfest this year will be like .... imagines tomatoe throwing at the devs.......
that is for *****s bring ****tail molotov
lol c o c k t a i l is consored |
Asperoth
Caldari Unwakeable Nightmare
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 22:51:00 -
[3864]
Edited by: Asperoth on 15/10/2008 22:51:55 Well. It appears you actually did go through with this even after thousands of your customers posted their concerns in this thread.
I will be cancelling my 10 accounts.(few of which which were ever ghost trained for any length of time) The magnitude of the stupidity of this decision on your part astounds me.
For all of our amusement, please do share active subscriber numbers over the next 3 months or so as current subscriptions expire. If you do not lose at least 10 to 15% of your subscriber base at a minimum, I will be surprised.
|
Lord Fitz
Project Amargosa
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 22:52:00 -
[3865]
Originally by: Deviana Sevidon I would like to give you the following quote from a member from MMORPG.
The User Enkidu said the perfect response to most people here:
Quote: I've been playing EvE for 4 years on and off. I never used "ghost training" because it seemed unethical to me- sort of like buying a suit to wear to a job interview and then returning it afterward. I've worked in several industries and professions, and I don't recall ever feeling obligated to provide service to a customer who had stopped paying for that service. Many of my associates in the game would say "I'm going inactive while I train BS V," or something similar- amd it always struck me as a bit sleazy.
here's a phenomenon I like to call "ungrateful housepet syndrome:"
When you scratch a dog's head, the dog likes it, and the dog gets used to it.
When you stop, the dog doesn't think "wow that was nice, thanks for scratching my head while it lasted," but rather looks at you as if to say "why the hell are you stopping? how dare you!"
People are the same way.. if you offer them access to a pleasant or advantageous situation and they get used to it, and then circumstances change for PERFECTLY VALID reasons, they NEVER say "hey thanks, that was cool while it lasted..." but rather "this sucks! I'm getting screwed!"
Things like this are just part of a constantly growing mountain of evidence that more and more people have no sense of personal honor or the desire to do the right thing JUST BECAUSE it's the right thing to do. All people care about is what they can get away with. Okay, you can get back to the whinefest now.
Woof.
If I'm getting this analogy right, CCP is the dog, right?
Because they're certainly biting the hand that feeds them. |
Lana Ground
Caldari Galactic Accord State Navy Academy Accord Corporate Enterprise Syndicate
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 22:55:00 -
[3866]
dont forget this thread guys
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=896079&page=5 |
Lord Fitz
Project Amargosa
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 22:56:00 -
[3867]
Originally by: Aryen Striker Just lots of people whinning about a free-bee.
Good on you CCP, paying subscribers only ... clean out the DB trash.
Pay a subscription or go to a free MMORPG
The list is endless .............. not.
Cleaning out the DB only makes a remote amount of sense if they actually delete inactive chars. All of them, training or not.
Given that ones that are training are more likely to return to the game, and will actually have to pay in order to do so.... Sounds like a good reason for many people to not return. What CCP is saying is that they want more subscribers, but they want them to not login. How long before skill training only happens when you're logged out ? |
IR Scoutar
Caldari State War Academy
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 23:02:00 -
[3868]
Soooooo
did we get an appology for that devblog and the appology for it yet ?
|
Smertrios
Veto. Veto Corp
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 23:04:00 -
[3869]
Quote: But recently we have seen a surge in this behavior in a way that we were essentially supporting and maintaining a large number of customers that weren't paying us regular subscriptions.
What you mean more and more people are stopping paying their subscription? more people are canceling accounts? What on earth could be causing that?
How about the continued poor way you are treating and interacting with your customers? You will live to regret this money making scheme. We can all see straight through the frankly terrible excuses for doing this. CCP has lost the relation ship with their customers that set them apart from all other game developers, you are turning into just another MMO company which does what ever it wants and F the customers.
Really sad tbh as this is a great game and the Devs i have met have all been really nice people who have been dedicated to making the eve player experience the best there is. They struck me as people who wanted to make something special and now it feels like its turning into another quest for money.
The lack of replies to this thread speaks volumes, you don't care and we know it. Oh well all good things come to an end i guess, the slippery slope continues Sigh!
|
Duskadantor
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 23:10:00 -
[3870]
Originally by: Lord Fitz
Originally by: Deviana Sevidon I would like to give you the following quote from a member from MMORPG.
The User Enkidu said the perfect response to most people here:
Quote: I've been playing EvE for 4 years on and off. I never used "ghost training" because it seemed unethical to me- sort of like buying a suit to wear to a job interview and then returning it afterward. I've worked in several industries and professions, and I don't recall ever feeling obligated to provide service to a customer who had stopped paying for that service. Many of my associates in the game would say "I'm going inactive while I train BS V," or something similar- amd it always struck me as a bit sleazy.
here's a phenomenon I like to call "ungrateful housepet syndrome:"
When you scratch a dog's head, the dog likes it, and the dog gets used to it.
When you stop, the dog doesn't think "wow that was nice, thanks for scratching my head while it lasted," but rather looks at you as if to say "why the hell are you stopping? how dare you!"
People are the same way.. if you offer them access to a pleasant or advantageous situation and they get used to it, and then circumstances change for PERFECTLY VALID reasons, they NEVER say "hey thanks, that was cool while it lasted..." but rather "this sucks! I'm getting screwed!"
Things like this are just part of a constantly growing mountain of evidence that more and more people have no sense of personal honor or the desire to do the right thing JUST BECAUSE it's the right thing to do. All people care about is what they can get away with. Okay, you can get back to the whinefest now.
Woof.
If I'm getting this analogy right, CCP is the dog, right?
Because they're certainly biting the hand that feeds them.
The 'no sense of personal honor' is directed at the few thousand people, posting here who are none to happy with this new news. It is these folk, that be the ungrateful dog, pointed at with the "ungrateful housepet syndrome" phenomenom(?)That is this persons point, but as another has mentioned, 'where is the dishonor in using a feature that was listed in the player guide?' I believe this though has now been amended.
There is no discredit to CCP from that main quote, Mr Lord Fitz. |
|
Guillame Herschel
Gallente Buffalo Soldiers
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 23:17:00 -
[3871]
I was going to take a break from EVE and set Wing Command V in a few days, when Command Ships V finished. It's also a Rank 8 skill, 34+ days training time. It would have been nice to come back from my break and have the prerequisites for the Fleet Command skill all done. How long do you suppose I've been paying for and playing this game to be looking forward to coming back from a break ready to train Fleet Command skill?
No need to guess. Here's the billing history:
2003-07-30 Sale wxyz AMEX 12.95 USD 2003-08-31 Sale wxyz AMEX 12.95 USD 2003-10-02 Sale wxyz AMEX 12.95 USD 2003-11-05 Sale wxyz AMEX 12.95 USD 2003-12-10 Sale wxyz AMEX 12.95 USD 2004-01-16 Sale wxyz AMEX 12.95 USD 2004-02-16 Sale wxyz AMEX 12.95 USD 2004-03-23 Sale wxyz AMEX 14.95 USD 2006-01-25 Sale wxyz AMEX 38.85 USD 2006-04-24 Sale wxyz AMEX 38.85 USD 2006-07-24 Sale wxyz AMEX 38.85 USD 2006-10-24 Sale wxyz AMEX 38.85 USD 2007-01-24 Sale wxyz AMEX 38.85 USD 2007-04-24 Sale wxyz AMEX 71.70 USD 2007-10-24 Sale wxyz AMEX 71.70 USD 2008-04-24 Sale wxyz AMEX 71.70 USD
But now I have no long-term pre-requisite to leave training as my account expires. It's not that I'm leaving because this change has made me mad; I was going to take a break anyway. But what incentive is there for me to come back? So I can pay for 2 month's game time to finish a level 5 skill that is a pre-req for another skill?
Fat chance.
|
Stormwind Bloodfeather
Minmatar Sogdian Traders Inc
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 23:18:00 -
[3872]
128 pages of commentary from players in THIS thread alone. A total of 3-4 comments by CCP, most of which was telling people to be nice, 1 comment from a CCP Idiot stating that, regardless of what YOU want (the players), we still state this is a bug (not an advertised feature) and we are removing it.
I had planned on only allowing my 4 accounts to stay lapsed for a month as my protest to CCP over this, but the absolute "we don't give a Mother Fu... shit about you" from CCP....
I dealt with that type of corporate thinking over at SoE with John Smedley and permanently closed my accounts and looked elsewhere for my entertainment.
My 4 accounts, as I showed back about page 80ish are unsubscribed. They run out in between 17-28 days. I doubt I will be renewing them as planned after my 1 month protest.
Don't get me wrong here... I agree with removing ghost training, always seems to me that it's only fair to pay to play or advance ( I have never used ghost training btw). HOW this has been handled on the other hand, brings back a VERY bad taste in my mouth reminiscent of SoE and how THEY view their players and customers (I don't use ANY sony products, period, as a result of SoE's behavior).
So CCP, you have a great game. I truly love playing it, but.. corporate behavior like this, for me; IS a deal breaker. I in part, pay your wage and help keep your company solvent, as do all the other players of EVE. Have you forgotten this? Have you forgotten that it's US who ultimately pay YOUR wage? Treating us disrespectfully, as you have done with this, is an unsound business choice. And for me a deal breaker.
My accounts most likely will NOT be renewed. Hell I live in Hawai'i I am sure I can find much more enjoyable things to do with my time and 60 bucks a month, than sitting in front of a computer screen shooting at little red flashy guys who are shooting back at me (bouncing beach bunny boob watching for the win!).
I hope that CCP learns from this. That treating your customers with disdain and disrespect is a bad idea, but I fear you won't.
Stormwind Bloodfeather
|
NupetietVer
Neuro Cartographic Services
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 23:19:00 -
[3873]
Hey, most MMO's you can't train while not playing?
Why don't we do like other MMO's, surely all other MMO's can't be wrong. You pay to play to train. |
Guillame Herschel
Gallente Buffalo Soldiers
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 23:22:00 -
[3874]
Edited by: Guillame Herschel on 15/10/2008 23:23:35 Last year, a friend of mine joined EVE after I showed it to him. Later, he lost his job and needed to cancel his sub for a while until he got new income. At my suggestion, he left Gallente BS V training before his account expired.
When he re-subbed, he logged in to find that Gallente BS V had not completed. We surmised that this might have been a bug due to the fact that he was logged in when his account expired and the server kicked him out. He filed a petition. After some consideration, THE GMS AGREED IT WAS A BUG THAT HIS SKILL DID NOT FINISH WHILE HIS ACCOUNT WAS INACTIVE, AND THEY GAVE HIM GALLENTE BATTLESHIP V SKILL.
Don't tell me that was a bug, too.
|
Asith
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 23:23:00 -
[3875]
WEll if they gave us warn then i dont think there would have been a issue, but the fact is theyve decided to randomly do it and its a bit clear that this is more a money grabbing excercise |
Amarria Drezine
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 23:23:00 -
[3876]
Originally by: Stormwind Bloodfeather ....the absolute "we don't give a Mother Fu... shit about you" from CCP....
CCP did the same with every heavily protested change. Its disgusting that they have been treating us, paying customers, in such a way. |
northwesten
Amarr Trinity Corporate Services
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 23:33:00 -
[3877]
Tesco just ran out of toilet paper! movement need to step in to refill with emergency supply's |
Akemi Tarazon
Caldari Romantic Devastator Resurgency
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 23:39:00 -
[3878]
My wish is simple. I want MY GHOST SKILL TRAINING back!!! It was clearly stated from the beginning on player's guide. It was encouraged by many cases, explicitly or implicitly. If you pull that out, you will pull out 3 accounts of mine as well.
Come out clean. Tell us you need extra income from EVE player base to develop so called "World of Darkness". Tell us you need extra dollars to hire fashion designer for costumes in "Walking station". I will full-heartedly support you with my money. But if you keep blatantly disguising your cause like korean MMO companies do, you will lose one more of your loyal customer.
|
NupetietVer
Neuro Cartographic Services
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 23:42:00 -
[3879]
Don't hate CCP for practicing World of Darkness features on EVE. CCP's take on WoW will rock! |
Velda Chulai
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 23:44:00 -
[3880]
Crowd Control Productions: Keeping crowds away from your game. |
|
Lana Ground
Caldari Galactic Accord State Navy Academy Accord Corporate Enterprise Syndicate
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 23:47:00 -
[3881]
owell i give EVE until newyear then i think it's going down but THATS MY OPINION.....btw i think CCP should give everyone that 1hr of DT back so then we pay them for the FULL month of gametime ;) |
SunGod RA
Ministry of Destruction
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 23:50:00 -
[3882]
jeebus will you whiners just cancel your accounts already >.> |
NupetietVer
Neuro Cartographic Services
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 23:51:00 -
[3883]
Originally by: Lana Ground owell i give EVE until newyear then i think it's going down but THATS MY OPINION.....btw i think CCP should give everyone that 1hr of DT back so then we pay them for the FULL month of gametime ;)
CCP just changed the name of their "Game Time Card" to Electronic Time Code, so no dice there. Nice ninja move there. |
Lana Ground
Caldari Galactic Accord State Navy Academy Accord Corporate Enterprise Syndicate
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 23:52:00 -
[3884]
Originally by: SunGod RA jeebus will you whiners just cancel your accounts already >.>
i have |
10of10
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 23:53:00 -
[3885]
Edited by: 10of10 on 15/10/2008 23:53:41
Originally by: SunGod RA jeebus will you whiners just cancel your accounts already >.>
I'm trying but every time I reach for the button i get hit by a body that is being thrashed around by a ccp employee Oh wait thats you with you head stuck up his a** hitting me... |
Vietone
Gallente The Scope
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 23:56:00 -
[3886]
When was it ever encouraged?
Did CCP ever say "Hey, while your training that 34 day skill, you can leave your account inactive and not play or pay us. Have Fun when you come back!!!.
No they never advertised this remotely in anyway or encouraged it. |
SunGod RA
Ministry of Destruction
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 23:56:00 -
[3887]
hopefully they will also ban inactive accounts from forum access =P |
Muschiu
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 23:56:00 -
[3888]
Originally by: NupetietVer Hey, most MMO's you can't train while not playing?
Why don't we do like other MMO's, surely all other MMO's can't be wrong. You pay to play to train.
i'm becoming sick of this "eve will be inline with others MMO" thing; can you name a single MMO where you need AT LEAST 1(ONE)YEAR of training to use an armor or a ****ing sword??? idiot! |
northwesten
Amarr Trinity Corporate Services
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 23:56:00 -
[3889]
Originally by: SunGod RA jeebus will you whiners just cancel your accounts already >.>
as well as ending them self! I mean boo hoo !! deal with it people! |
NereSky
Gallente Trinity Nova Trinity Nova Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 23:56:00 -
[3890]
Originally by: Vietone When was it ever encouraged?
Did CCP ever say "Hey, while your training that 34 day skill, you can leave your account inactive and not play or pay us. Have Fun when you come back!!!.
No they never advertised this remotely in anyway or encouraged it.
|
|
ISIAM
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 23:57:00 -
[3891]
Good evening to all on the front lines of are continuing battle against injustice, B.F.S., and the C.C.P. way. To all the great solders of the enduing fight, I say " HOLD OUT " and never despair for we in our ceaseless endurance, we shell be beholden upon high, Not by those below us and cause us our strife, but buy those that will measure themselves by our actions. Stand tall and let the light of rightness fall upon and root out those of the iniquitous responsibility. Fly with indignation and seize these creatures of dismay and rind them to a pulp. For we the true worriers of right shell live in the solace of our clear being. So now still is the time of our discontent. shell we go as so many, down with wavering? NO. We shell always continue unwaveringly. Henceforth we will expel the unforgiving, dirty, and greedy writhing mass. Cast it down upon the jagged rocks of decomposition, and stand guard over it, we shell, till at which time it has fluttered away on the winds of purity and virtue. so go forth we to stamp it out and disallow it further purchase on us or our brethren. Freedom we have and are, and no organization may take it from us. So we fight and fight we shell.
Comrades, Countrymen, Friends, till next we sweetly meet, stand strong.
"ISIAM"
|
Ishukim
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 23:58:00 -
[3892]
omg people... just pay for the ****ing game!! whiners! |
Vangogh61
FinFleet Band of Brothers
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 23:58:00 -
[3893]
I can understand CCP not wanting people to have accounts they bounce back and forth on, but they set up the training that way and sold the game that way. If they want to only train for active accounts at least let us train two characters at a time. That way you can be advancing along different lines. After nearly 3 years in the game I'm finally becoming a competent combat pilot, but heaven forbid I should want to go into manufacturing and have another 3 years to train that effectively. I have left a couple of times for RL issues and have been glad that I can come back and have something completed that maybe took 40 days. Next time I have to leave with everything being at a standstill, I will be much more reluctant to activate. |
Asperoth
Caldari Unwakeable Nightmare
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 00:00:00 -
[3894]
Edited by: Asperoth on 16/10/2008 00:01:44 One final post for me. I just finished cancelling my 10 accounts. I won't likely be coming back to the boards while the remaining weeks tick off my various accounts.
For those who are saying that CCP is doing this out of greed, you are wrong. For every 1 person who now pays for the time they used to ghost train, there will be 5 others like myself who cancelled their accounts permanently as a matter of principle.
This is going to cost CCP money, lots of it. The decision to move forward with it is just yet another sign that they are disconnected from their playerbase and don't really understand us at all.
If CCP reverses this decision, I may come back. Otherwise, I'll be spending my game time playing Warhammer with my friends who obviously were far smarter than me and left this game long ago. |
James Marshalll
Gallente
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 00:00:00 -
[3895]
Originally by: Ishukim omg people... just pay for the ****ing game!! whiners!
you are whining about whiners.
classic. |
trigg99
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 00:01:00 -
[3896]
im new to eve and was about to make a second account. seeing that ccp dont listen to there customers, I have now canceled subs! |
trigg59
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 00:02:00 -
[3897]
im new to eve and was about to make a second account. seeing that ccp dont listen to there customers, I have now canceled subs! |
Duskadantor
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 00:05:00 -
[3898]
Originally by: NereSky
Originally by: Vietone When was it ever encouraged?
Did CCP ever say "Hey, while your training that 34 day skill, you can leave your account inactive and not play or pay us. Have Fun when you come back!!!.
No they never advertised this remotely in anyway or encouraged it.
Dear me,
Has this person not read the hundreds of posts, and links to the eve player guide listing this as a feature, because they are everywhere! There are a few more people saying this has now also been removed since today. But follow the links my friend and you'll see true.
Oh, and I'm happy to play eve, as long as there are shiny, happy, people to play with. ( I need help with my fudging comma placement GRAAAR) I'd be happier still to now see those skill training 'improvement threads' come to fruition in the form of skill training ques! |
Maren Maen
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 00:06:00 -
[3899]
Is this thread a record yet?
(yes, just doing my part) |
ShikiMT
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 00:06:00 -
[3900]
i guess this is good bye. |
|
Stormwind Bloodfeather
Minmatar Sogdian Traders Inc
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 00:06:00 -
[3901]
Edited by: Stormwind Bloodfeather on 16/10/2008 00:10:20
Originally by: Ishukim omg people... just pay for the ****ing game!! whiners!
I do pay for the game. On ALL of my accounts, non stop. I have never used Ghost Training. My Beef is HOW (not what) they did this. First the obvious shortness of the announcement, then the blatant lies, then the further blatant lies to cover up the first set of lies. Trying to blame it on lack of communication (wait.. you play the game for years and you don't KNOW this advertised feature, I thought BoB .. err I mean CCP always used it), and then basically telling everyone oh well just suck it up.
Personally, I have no problem with the change, and in fact agree with it. I DO on the other hand have a major problem with how it's been handled.
So do yourself a favor... Take a chill pill, relax a bit, read the 128 pages of this thread and understand that MOST people are not upset about the feature being removed, they are upset at HOW it's being handled by CCP.
Stormwind
|
Sciencegeek deathdealer
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 00:08:00 -
[3902]
CCP this was an EPIC FAIL! seriously how much space or processor speed does it take to run something that isnt loged on? you have already lost dozens of accounts so what now?
EVE online home to 100k members and dropping every min. JOIN TODAY!
I dont even have a second account and i can see that this is sad. But your biggest mistake NOT REPLYING! Talk to us reconsider. |
StinkFinger
Caldari State War Academy
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 00:11:00 -
[3903]
hopefully this will lower gtc prices quite a bit...if it does, im all for it |
Asith
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 00:18:00 -
[3904]
Originally by: StinkFinger hopefully this will lower gtc prices quite a bit...if it does, im all for it
That will be the next thing they remove |
Felizardo
Caldari Dr. Sepulveda Laboratories
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 00:18:00 -
[3905]
Now that i plan to leave Eve for some months you guys fix this "bug"? And all the time i¦ve been active i have been competing with pilots that had the benefit of "ghosting" while i was active all the time...
Hmmm, maybe i wont be back ever... |
SidViciousSG
Sturmgrenadier Inc
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 00:21:00 -
[3906]
CCP's amateurish coverup attempts (ninja edits, hiding this very thread and lying about the unfortunate "technical difficulties") is a slap in the face for me. I've been playing since early '05 and eagerly introduced quite a few friends to the "Fisherman's Friend" of MMO.
Due to various circumstances, I took a few breaks from Eve throughout my "career", every single time, this very bug/feature was a deciding factor in my choice to renew my subscription.
While I can only speak for my own experience, believe me when I say that casually mentioning "Did you check on that long skill you set before unsubbing ? I bet it's done by now" actually bought people I know back to Eve.
@ CCP Wrangler: I'm sure your cow'orkers from marketing know better... |
Camdim
Caldari The first genesis Veritas Immortalis
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 00:21:00 -
[3907]
Two issues with the change both can easily be fixed.
If an account does go in active there should be a grace period 1 week or so this helps anyone that gets really busy and or couldn't find a decent ( for them ) deal on a GTC or what have you. This helps the general populace at large incase real life intrudes.
Second issue I have alot of friends in the service many of them get deployed for 6m or more at a time. I know in the past you guys have help out the military folks. This needs to be done again so that these people that protect our freedoms and make the game possible get a little consideration. |
Asith
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 00:34:00 -
[3908]
Edited by: Asith on 16/10/2008 00:38:20 Edited by: Asith on 16/10/2008 00:35:16 Man its hard to get to this thread via the main forum - there hiding it im sure
3800 + replys to this mmm if 1 in 4 of those replys represent one person CCP just ****ed off 1000players
how many will actually take action because of this proberly about 50 lol
CCP dont care as long as the majority are addicted to the game |
SunGod RA
Ministry of Destruction
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 00:45:00 -
[3909]
Originally by: Asperoth This is going to cost CCP money, lots of it. The decision to move forward with it is just yet another sign that they are disconnected from their playerbase and don't really understand us at all.
mm, im part of the player base, and i welcome such a move. i don't mind either way, but i always found it a bit ******ed when i saw other players say "i'm canceling this account to train for battleship v", like you couldn't train it while playing. (of course now i understand that they had 5-10 other accounts to mess with etc etc.)
this move will only make things better overall, less alt proliferation, less character farming, less skillpoints dilution, and hopefully less whiny drama queens! although i'm sure people will find other things to whine about (with their canceled-then-reactivated-cuz-this-game-is-unique-etc accounts of course.) this is the whine-dimension after all!
plus, 10 accounts? jeebus. try going out a little once in a while, maybe you won't get your panties in a bunch so much over intarweb spaceships. |
Duskadantor
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 01:01:00 -
[3910]
Edited by: Duskadantor on 16/10/2008 01:03:59 Guys please dont get CCP wrong with all of this talk of them trying to hide this thread. They have a link to this thread right on their homepage.
I've said it before & I'll say it again:
'EVE Home Page' Headline news 'Ghost Training to be Removed' More >>
'News Article' GHOST TRAINING TO BE REMOVED Please read this Dev Blog for more information.
Dev Blog takes you here...
'More Information' WHY GHOST TRAINING WAS DISABLED Then you click on 'comments'
Then your here!
Though after saying all this and reading the headline news, the ghosting headline is now 3rd from bottom. Though I think its just paranoia to believe that CCP are bombarding the headlines to bury such an article. |
|
Battlecheese
Caldari Genbuku. Daisho Syndicate
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 01:24:00 -
[3911]
Originally by: Duskadantor Edited by: Duskadantor on 16/10/2008 01:03:59 Guys please dont get CCP wrong with all of this talk of them trying to hide this thread. They have a link to this thread right on their homepage.
OI. don't talk sense! people are trying to whine in here!!!
Unrelated: Also, mentioning a tolerated bug in the user guide so that it can't only be exploited by people in the know does not equal "using it as a selling point". |
Dee Fisher
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 01:26:00 -
[3912]
Even though it won't effect me as I've never "ghost trained", I am another player who disagrees with your decision.
I DO understand business decisions, even when, as a consumer, I disagree. I, the consumer, also make business decisions.
That said, the reason I feel strongly enough to make this post is that I am insulted by the way you are implimenting this "fix"
It was CCP who promoted this "bug" as a feature for years....NOT the players. The players simply took advantage of the "feature" YOU offered, advertised and promoted.
Yet you insult me (I won't speak for others) by intending to suddenly make this change without at LEAST a few weeks notice. WHY? You further insulted me by your first so-called "explaination". (your second explaination carries little weight, you had your chance)
TRUTH goes a long way with me, it earns my respect even when I disagree.
So, I close with a question. Your answer, or lack thereof, will speak volumes to me an possible others.
The question is:
Is this how CCP intends to start treating its customer base now and in the future??
I await your reply. |
Etho Demerzel
Gallente Holy Clan of the Cone
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 01:29:00 -
[3913]
Originally by: Battlecheese
OI. don't talk sense! people are trying to whine in here!!!
Unrelated: Also, mentioning a tolerated bug in the user guide so that it can't only be exploited by people in the know does not equal "using it as a selling point".
The online guide was advertising it as a feature and explaning how to make full use of it. Never ever, in this guy it was mentioned as a bug and its use was discoraged, on the contrary, it was encouraged! No manual or guide mention bugs and encourage their use, that is a ridiculous statement.
This is and always has been a feature. A feature that has been removed to the cost of the player base in a coward and insidious way. |
Taruga Seolry
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 01:32:00 -
[3914]
Really stupid idea with stupid lie.
I have played EVE just 4 month and my 2 account is always active. You CCP shoud remember how UO(Ultima Online)fail in the market. EA wanted to increase user and they addd PVP safe world named 'Renaissance'. It removed UO's basic game characteristics and led many old players quit.
Now, time for EVE ? I really wanna ask.
I do not believe CCP imagine this measure will wake up many ghost account and bring alot of $$ to CCP. Ghost skill trainning is a kind of hidden string which can make ppls back to EVE and also it can be the basic EVE's characteristics. I am worry about the situation like below. 1. CCP wanna $ and remove important characteristic. 2. Old and new ppls leave EVE. 3. Most important characteristic, The Ecomony system, will come to ruin. 4. The more ppls leave EVE.
I really hope EVE do not go same way to UO.. |
NupetietVer
Neuro Cartographic Services
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 01:39:00 -
[3915]
Edited by: NupetietVer on 16/10/2008 01:44:20
Dee Fisher: "Even though it won't effect me as I've never "ghost trained", I am another player who disagrees with your decision."
For a 1 month player, you will understand later on. |
Battlecheese
Caldari Genbuku. Daisho Syndicate
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 01:39:00 -
[3916]
Originally by: Dee Fisher Yet you insult me (I won't speak for others) by intending to suddenly make this change without at LEAST a few weeks notice. WHY?
Well, it's not rocket science - they probably looked at their weekly spreadsheets and noticed that 95% of all of the PowerOf2 accounts were ghosting rather than continuing their subscription... |
Ching Chongchang
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 01:48:00 -
[3917]
Whether or not this is a good idea - which it really isn't for any of a number of reasons, which many of you fail to grasp - is beside the point.
This isn't "an outrage" and is very honestly not something that warrants a 4 page flame fest (let alone 130 pages). CCP is enacting a policy that only serves to discourage people from taking a break from the game. What that means isn't that fewer people will actually leave the game, but that fewer people will have a carrot to come back.
The community at large sickens me though... Why do you feel that it's your God given right to make use of CCP's resources for free if they decide its time for you to be paying? Get over yourselves already and support a product you clearly enjoy. If you want to play the game, f***ing pay for it. If you don't enjoy the game, WHY ARE YOU HERE?
|
David Goldline
Gallente MetaMind Deep Space Explorations
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 01:55:00 -
[3918]
Edited by: David Goldline on 16/10/2008 02:10:28 Horrible idea. in a way they are removing "real time skill training" (thats my logic)
-tactical facepalm- >>> http://img512.imageshack.us/img512/9255/isabugne7.jpg
... |
IR Scoutar
Caldari State War Academy
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 02:01:00 -
[3919]
can we like split this in 2 diffrent topics ?
those people that have emorage at ccp because they lied to them multiple on this 1 issue alone
and those that have emorage about there being no more what was apparently called ghost training
yes no maby idk im scared ? |
Duvaren
Amarr The Maverick Navy Pupule 'Ohana
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 02:07:00 -
[3920]
Question:
Has CCP responded to the player base outrage yet? (Officially) |
|
Ezoran DuBlaidd
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 02:22:00 -
[3921]
Originally by: CCP Wrangler As the recent news stated, we will disable the ability to train skills on a suspended account. Since this has caused a lot of debate we've decided to explain why we are making this change in a new Dev Blog by t0rfifrans: Why ghost training was disabled.
let's see... used to buy the 90 day GTC (which no longer exist due to yet other BRILLIANT thinking at ccp), play the accounts, when a 90 day would end, let that account lapse while a 30+ day skill trained then come back and do another 90 day gtc...
so, instead of one account active all the time and 2-4 on and off (giving well over a single account in a year's time), you now get a single account paid for. period.
yes, i can see how LOSING money on the part of ccp from one horrid idea after another (jacked the GTCs, now this crap), is bound to MAKE ccp money.
yes, brilliant indeed! |
IR Scoutar
Caldari State War Academy
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 02:24:00 -
[3922]
somewhere in those 129 pages there is a response from torfi that prety much reads like this
"oops we didnt know that we had that documented but we arnt gona chance our decision" |
Grimm Starling
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 02:35:00 -
[3923]
This is unfortunate.
A bad decision that will not only hurt your player base but your business as well. Removing a unique incentive for customer retention will earn you no accolades and bring no extra dollars for your company.
I urge you to consider the examples in our industry which have shown that bad changes in the name of 'game balance' are still bad changes. |
BoungaBounga
Secret Order of the Cats
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 02:36:00 -
[3924]
Another post whining about topic. |
Duskadantor
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 02:37:00 -
[3925]
Edited by: Duskadantor on 16/10/2008 02:45:22 Edited by: Duskadantor on 16/10/2008 02:40:33
Originally by: Battlecheese
Originally by: Dee Fisher Yet you insult me (I won't speak for others) by intending to suddenly make this change without at LEAST a few weeks notice. WHY?
Well, it's not rocket science - they probably looked at their weekly spreadsheets and noticed that 95% of all of the PowerOf2 accounts were ghosting rather than continuing their subscription...
So ghosting stunted the predicted returns from whatever number of folk who signed up?
I think the next time 'the power of two' offer comes it won't be nearly as popular as the one just ended. Not just because of the end of ghosting but because of how so many folk signed up with plans. Plans of how they would level up their character (to possibly ghost) and then be told about the removal of the 5 year long bug right after the offer ends.
This unlucky timing and unfortunate PR has quite possibly runined the appeal of such an offer, knock on effect would also ruin CCP $$$ right?
So, the 'power of two' offer may also leave a bitter taste in the mouth many who learn of the facts. Me myself though, I'm a one account guy. I'm just way too tight with my cash to have two accounts.
"No bitterness here, no siree bob" |
Ezoran DuBlaidd
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 02:45:00 -
[3926]
Originally by: Ching Chongchang Whether or not this is a good idea - which it really isn't for any of a number of reasons, which many of you fail to grasp - is beside the point.
This isn't "an outrage" and is very honestly not something that warrants a 4 page flame fest (let alone 130 pages). CCP is enacting a policy that only serves to discourage people from taking a break from the game. What that means isn't that fewer people will actually leave the game, but that fewer people will have a carrot to come back.
The community at large sickens me though... Why do you feel that it's your God given right to make use of CCP's resources for free if they decide its time for you to be paying? Get over yourselves already and support a product you clearly enjoy. If you want to play the game, f***ing pay for it. If you don't enjoy the game, WHY ARE YOU HERE?
like i said, instead of getting the equivalent of 3-4 accounts worth of pay, yearly, from me, they'll now get exactly one account's worth of pay, yearly from me.
why is that so hard to understand?
people who play multiple toons/accounts probably actually PLAY them and that one person might actually pay more ANNUALLY, even with taking a month off here and there on one of their 3-8 accounts?
i know, crazy talk. some people aren't good at the maths.
kinda like the GTC stuff of late... more not-good math there. |
Simpler Plan
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 02:46:00 -
[3927]
i was right outside the door due to the lag issues your servers keep having that ccp avoids admitting until a corp mate gave me a reason to stay. and now ccp decided to do this
makes me wish i locked myself outside
i hope ccp sees this and decides to read what everyone feels on this subject bc this is rediclous.
a bug thats been around for almost 5 year? yeah right. |
Ezoran DuBlaidd
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 02:52:00 -
[3928]
Originally by: SunGod RA
Originally by: Asperoth This is going to cost CCP money, lots of it. The decision to move forward with it is just yet another sign that they are disconnected from their playerbase and don't really understand us at all.
mm, im part of the player base, and i welcome such a move. i don't mind either way, but i always found it a bit ******ed when i saw other players say "i'm canceling this account to train for battleship v", like you couldn't train it while playing. (of course now i understand that they had 5-10 other accounts to mess with etc etc.)
this move will only make things better overall, less alt proliferation, less character farming, less skillpoints dilution, and hopefully less whiny drama queens! although i'm sure people will find other things to whine about (with their canceled-then-reactivated-cuz-this-game-is-unique-etc accounts of course.) this is the whine-dimension after all!
plus, 10 accounts? jeebus. try going out a little once in a while, maybe you won't get your panties in a bunch so much over intarweb spaceships.
i, for one, welcome our new alien ant overlords.
perhaps we can see them at this year's fanfest! |
Parasite S
Perkone
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 02:53:00 -
[3929]
Originally by: Ezoran DuBlaidd
like i said, instead of getting the equivalent of 3-4 accounts worth of pay, yearly, from me, they'll now get exactly one account's worth of pay, yearly from me.
why is that so hard to understand?
people who play multiple toons/accounts probably actually PLAY them and that one person might actually pay more ANNUALLY, even with taking a month off here and there on one of their 3-8 accounts?
i know, crazy talk. some people aren't good at the maths.
kinda like the GTC stuff of late... more not-good math there.
well thats just typical CCP. they claim to play the game like everyone else but wasnt it like a year before? you know where they invited lots and lots of poeple to acctualy "feel and test the lag"? if so much people by ccp really have the same experience at we such crap hadnt to be done.... now we see ccp`s unknowingness about their further and further away from them moving playerbase again.... |
Nova
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 03:17:00 -
[3930]
makes no cents to me but then i guess ccp doesn't need the extra cents of my alts bad move ccp |
|
Dontcheck Availability
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 03:18:00 -
[3931]
It's only fair to make it so that trial accounts also can't train any skills. After all, they're not paying to play the game! |
StealthGerbils
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 03:19:00 -
[3932]
First and foremost, I think that it is a bad idea to remove ghost training. It gives people incentives to return to the game and it makes training extremely long skills less tedious
That said, I know that the devs are going to make skills keep training for 3 days. While they are kind enough to make it so that your account lapsing for a day or two isn't harmful, they are neglecting one of the main reasons why people come back to eve.
We all know that people get burnt out of MMOs, especially when new ones come out. One of the main reasons people come back to eve is because they know that their character just finished an awesome skill that they left it on. Removing ghost training is going to kill this.
That said, I can see exactly why CCP wants to remove it. It isn't fair that a character can train the titan skill to V while inactive. That is around 75 days of training that they are losing out on money. It also allows people to make crazy characters and just sell them for isk because they trained all of the long skills while inactive.
I believe that there needs to be a balance.
Why not allow skills to ghost train for 2 weeks after an account goes inactive. That gives players the ability to set a skill that they would enjoy coming back to and would keep the joy of getting a 'gift' when you reactive your account. However, 14 days isn't really that long in terms of skill training. It wouldn't make anything unbalanced, because what is 14 days out of a 40 day skil, much less out of a 75 day skill?
It would allow players to set a rank 2 or 3 skill to V and come back with it trained. It would keep the positive reinforcement that will make a player return to the game but it wouldn't make it unbalanced to the point that people are training up characters while mostly being inactive. |
Jaxxon Voers
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 03:28:00 -
[3933]
I still find it kinda amusing that not only is this thread still 'vanished' more than 24 hours after Wrangler posted that they were actively working to get it fixed, (We all knew you didnt really mean it Wrangler) but the server graph that shows how many people are online compared to last week is disabled on the front page as well.
Nothing to see here, move along, indeed.
|
Battlecheese
Caldari Genbuku. Daisho Syndicate
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 03:28:00 -
[3934]
Originally by: StealthGerbils ....it makes training extremely long skills less tedious.
If you lack the mental strength to stick it out, you may find WOW more to your liking. |
una keenan
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 03:28:00 -
[3935]
this is the end of Eve for me... CCP this is a very wrong decision. Specially telling us its a "BUG". |
Syrdione
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 03:29:00 -
[3936]
Just saw the thread... bah...bad move...bad move... Good luck CCP. You'll have a big problem ( BIG, VERY BIG ) with your subs. |
Mr Patches
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 03:41:00 -
[3937]
In all honesty I'm surprised and disappointed there hasn't been more feedback from CCP in this thread.
/shrugs and gets some scotch. |
Roland San
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 03:42:00 -
[3938]
I would like to say I ghost trained. I used it as the feature it was stated to be.
Why?
Because it gave me the flexibility to plan eve around my real life, not the other way round.
From where I am in the world, the previous 90-day GTCs was fairly expensive, given the exchange rates and all. At the end of that 90 days, I'd train a long skill, take time off to recover from eve burnout, and be drawn back by the prospect of a fully trained new skill which would open new doors for me in the game.
I can't stay subbed constantly. I need the time away; it keeps the game fresh for me, and the amount of time and money I can allocate to this cannot increase. Without the carrot of a new skill awaiting my return (which usually pretty much happens almost immediately after that skill has been completed) it'll only make it harder to come back. With ghost training, CCP would at least be assured of getting 3x 90 day, or 4x 60 day subscriptions from me, given a month in between each extension. Now the carrot is gone, I really do not know what I'm going to do when this account (which was extended only a week ago) expires. I certainly won't throw all I've done here away, but the will to do more is getting pretty weak. |
James Marshalll
Gallente
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 04:00:00 -
[3939]
Originally by: Battlecheese
Originally by: StealthGerbils ....it makes training extremely long skills less tedious.
If you lack the mental strength to stick it out, you may find WOW more to your liking.
for someone who is so happy with the game, you sure spend a lot of time here insulting people who are giving feedback in a non "emorage" way. Does CCP pay you for every lick of their johnson, or just the first 1 or 2? |
Seth Ruin
Minmatar Ominous Corp Ethereal Dawn
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 04:06:00 -
[3940]
Originally by: StealthGerbils ....it makes training extremely long skills less tedious.
I honestly wouldn't mind a boost to skill training... Might help new players catch up to older ones even, as they seem so keen to want to do. |
|
Battlecheese
Caldari Genbuku. Daisho Syndicate
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 04:09:00 -
[3941]
Edited by: Battlecheese on 16/10/2008 04:09:42
Originally by: James Marshalll for someone who is so happy with the game, you sure spend a lot of time here insulting people who are giving feedback in a non "emorage" way.
What can I say? Work is slow this afternoon.
... And he/she/it was whining about skill training times, which are sort of the point of EVE. If the game isn't enjoyable _now_, I doubt it'll suddenly become cool just because the pixels you can fly change a bit.
Edit: profanity filter... |
Ms Yipman
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 04:27:00 -
[3942]
Edited by: Ms Yipman on 16/10/2008 04:33:50 Edited by: Ms Yipman on 16/10/2008 04:29:30 Hey EvE's awesome I respect there decisions 99%. I mean how many farmers we got? and I know they would milk this oppurtunity. It would have been nice though if they would stop training 48 or 72 hours after expiration in the case I was on vacation for a weekend and forgot to renew.
But hey it ain't going to stop me from gaming EvE.
|
Ezoran DuBlaidd
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 04:34:00 -
[3943]
Originally by: Battlecheese
Originally by: StealthGerbils ....it makes training extremely long skills less tedious.
If you lack the mental strength to stick it out, you may find WOW more to your liking.
and for those of us with 4+ accounts, who, on average, are paying the equivalent of 3-6 *normal annual* amounts of money for all those accounts... would we have to say to you that you lack the mental strength to play that many characters?
like i said... someone is not good at maths. but we knew that when they made those idiotic GTC changes. |
Ezoran DuBlaidd
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 04:36:00 -
[3944]
Originally by: Ms Yipman Edited by: Ms Yipman on 16/10/2008 04:33:50 Edited by: Ms Yipman on 16/10/2008 04:29:30 Hey EvE's awesome I respect there decisions 99%. I mean how many farmers we got? and I know they would milk this oppurtunity. It would have been nice though if they would stop training 48 or 72 hours after expiration in the case I was on vacation for a weekend and forgot to renew.
But hey it ain't going to stop me from gaming EvE.
i don't know, how many farmers are there compared to how many people who play multiple accounts?
do you happen to have those numbers?
|
Nate D
Hell's Rejects
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 04:38:00 -
[3945]
Punish noobs NOT Geezers! |
Zinnn
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 04:47:00 -
[3946]
How about punishing those people who are just going from one trial account to another with the same IP, moving their assets over and over again, until they can afford timecards, etc? They're not making any cash for CCP and are a complete leech on the system. IF YOU WANT TO PLAY THE GAME, PAY FOR IT.. All I"m asking for is some consistency. You want to be a badass about this decision, that's fine but be consistent. You want to remove leechers, there's your prime leachers. I've talked to .. well... probably 2 or more, if I see at least 2 people that do this tactic, obviously more people are doing it. I'm just saying if you want to screw people, you might as well screw the prime targets - ones who don't pay and just use up accounts and discard them, leaving their crap in space to pick up with the other account, OR dumping them on the market in some sort of transaction. It's been done, so fix it CCP... Be consistent. |
Ezoran DuBlaidd
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 04:47:00 -
[3947]
Originally by: Corrock I can see why, if you were taking advantage of this "feature" you'd be ****ed, but there are a lot of people with more than one active account who pay continuously, myself included, so why should some people get to train for free?
because some people pay for a lot more accounts than you do? and, including the ghosting, they annually pay more money than you?
|
Erimisha
Minmatar
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 05:18:00 -
[3948]
-Ghost RPs -Ghost Sales -Ghost CEOs -Ghost Manufacturing |
Holy Cheater
Brute Force Unlimited
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 05:26:00 -
[3949]
Originally by: Erimisha -Ghost RPs -Ghost Sales -Ghost CEOs -Ghost Manufacturing
-Ninja hunting |
Bigeasy
Caldari It's A Trap
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 05:42:00 -
[3950]
>.> <.<
Is this thread still invisible?
Ghost Training: Play the game...without actually playing the game. |
|
RayGic Luke
Caldari Oresome Mining Inc.
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 05:42:00 -
[3951]
Where is CCP Oveur? Why is he not making a statement on this matter or are they waiting for CCP Hellmar(CEO) to step in after all the unsubscribing have taken place? |
Keter 325
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 05:50:00 -
[3952]
I just find it hell-arious that, what was once a "selling point" of the game that cast it unique among any other MMO is now a "bug" that is costing CCP money and should be cured like it is some sort of disease. What other selling points will be nerfed in the future CCP? Maybe we shouldn't really have 3 toons per account and therefore have to pay 3x the amount that we are paying right now to pop a cyno; that seems like a bug to me. Ut oh, I think that I just gave them an idea. |
Velda Chulai
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 05:53:00 -
[3953]
There's no other kind of rage but emo rage. |
Lady Amnesia
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 06:08:00 -
[3954]
Edited by: Lady Amnesia on 16/10/2008 06:09:55 why don't you CCP say, "We need more money for new expansion(or station things.. and etc) and our new game"? if you said that way, i would paid my five account's fee gladly..
|
Leica Stroganow
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 06:14:00 -
[3955]
Edited by: Leica Stroganow on 16/10/2008 06:14:15
Originally by: Battlecheese
Originally by: StealthGerbils ....it makes training extremely long skills less tedious.
If you lack the mental strength to stick it out, you may find WOW more to your liking.
You deserve afew more bugs mate !!! |
Truthbringer
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 06:21:00 -
[3956]
I normally take breaks from the game and the fact that my characters are still training is one of the major factors that brings me back. Now that this will no longer be the case, expect my next sabbatical to be permanent. This was a VERY poor marketing decision. You should expect to see your active accounts trickle off in the next few months. |
Nakimoto
Caldari Unnatural Growth
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 06:30:00 -
[3957]
OMFG welcome to the big sand box in the sky equal for everyone. Some pay to sit and train some do not. Advantage to the bums. Make a sign sit on the freeway off ramp. Suggested wording "spare change for alt account" Obviously abuse of a feature gets nerfed in EVE. This should be no shock to anyone. Have fun back in WOW where you have to pay and play to lvl.
IF leaving please place all your goods in open public contracts for 1 isk thanks |
Qel Hoth
Infusion. G00DFELLAS
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 06:34:00 -
[3958]
Hmm... Seems odd to me that the guide got nerfed almost immediately about this, but it still says
"when using Jump Clones, do NOT jump from the station where you already have a clone with implants. This is because you would leave your former body there and, as you can only have one clone per station, your oldest clone would be deleted with all its implants."
This was changed in a patch about a month ago, wasn't it?
I don't have a problem with CCP killing ghost training. What I have a problem is is them says for 5 years that it is a "feature" and then doing an about-face and claiming it's a "bug."
I would guess that most people don't like being lied to, so unless CCP decides to either reverse or more preferably, apologize and give a correct reason for the change, I will likely be canceling my account. This isn't because I'm emonerdraging, but rather because I refuse to willfully give my money to a company that doesn't care about good business practices.
How would you feel in this situation: you bought meat from a supermarket and when you got home to cook it, realized that it expired last week. Upon taking it back to the store and asking for a refund or exchange, as the product was obviously expired when you bought it, they said "f*** you, we just want your money" and refuse. Would you continue to buy from this store provided there were other options available? I would not, and therefore am likely canceling my subscription. |
Andrua
Leprosorium
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 06:38:00 -
[3959]
It seems that EVE and it's management have just hit an important milestone.
They stopped considering their playerbase.
The bullshit was fed. The change was implemented and driven past any resemblance of common sense, and player reaction on that matter was completely and utterly ignored.
We failed too - EVE community was always listened to and now when those times are gone, not much were actually realising that they are on a verge of new EVE, the one that players can either play as it is or GTFO. We were unprepared, we let this slide and got royally screwed. And will be screwed from now on - because EVE management now knows that it CAN screw its playerbase and nothing will happen.
So, welcome to the last epoch of EVE online. Gods themselves, they do not know where it will go from here. |
Perussi Slicis
Heavy Heavy Industries
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 06:41:00 -
[3960]
Edited by: Perussi Slicis on 16/10/2008 06:48:41 Ccp, dont fu*king lie to us. Its not a bug, the icelandic economy has went to sh*t and you just need money. Come clean do not beat around the hedges. 130 pages of complaining and you still follow through with it. Your not making more money. Your hurting your player base.
Be smart, don't screw your self over.
Don't bring us in with a fancy deal, then screw us over, Please. Bring it back, dont BS us. |
|
Ramund
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 06:50:00 -
[3961]
I cant stand when people say CCP has to lower the training times becuse of this change. Your playing the game, your not playing the game just to log in and see your skill finished. Dont do Battleship V or Titan V if you dont want to, noone is forcing you.
I like this change, and it should have been done a long time ago. Im not sure why it was placed ingame to begin with. |
Ezoran DuBlaidd
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 06:59:00 -
[3962]
Originally by: Ramund I cant stand when people say CCP has to lower the training times becuse of this change. Your playing the game, your not playing the game just to log in and see your skill finished. Dont do Battleship V or Titan V if you dont want to, noone is forcing you.
I like this change, and it should have been done a long time ago. Im not sure why it was placed ingame to begin with.
i like it too.
now, instead of paying the equivalent of 4 game years per year (for various accounts), folks are only paying for 1 game year per year now.
so nerd rage on in your unrighteous indignation. come the new year, someone will realize their mistake when all those alt accounts just keep not re-subbing.
how many accounts are you supporting ccp with? cuz your vote probably is only worth that few (or one), same with your opinion i'm betting. |
Ezoran DuBlaidd
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 07:00:00 -
[3963]
Originally by: Andrua It seems that EVE and it's management have just hit an important milestone.
They stopped considering their playerbase.
The bullshit was fed. The change was implemented and driven past any resemblance of common sense, and player reaction on that matter was completely and utterly ignored.
We failed too - EVE community was always listened to and now when those times are gone, not much were actually realising that they are on a verge of new EVE, the one that players can either play as it is or GTFO. We were unprepared, we let this slide and got royally screwed. And will be screwed from now on - because EVE management now knows that it CAN screw its playerbase and nothing will happen.
So, welcome to the last epoch of EVE online. Gods themselves, they do not know where it will go from here.
actually, that happened when they screwed up the GTCs. |
Ultim8Evil
Caldari Provisions
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 07:01:00 -
[3964]
I see the player guide has been stealth/ninja-edited pretty sharpish:
http://www.eve-online.com/guide/en/g615.asp
"Skills continue training even if you are logged off, but the skill will no longer continue to train on inactive accounts (an inactive account is when youÆre no longer paying the subscription, training will still continue when youÆve logged off on an subscribed account)."
If only so many of the other bugs, issues and supposed coming soonÖ features were worked on so quickly!
|
Counter Spy
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 07:03:00 -
[3965]
Ghost training no, but AFK farming with Orca for chinese ISK farmer, YES said CCP. The GTC disappearing coming, this is the point.
|
Ezoran DuBlaidd
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 07:05:00 -
[3966]
Originally by: Keter 325 I just find it hell-arious that, what was once a "selling point" of the game that cast it unique among any other MMO is now a "bug" that is costing CCP money and should be cured like it is some sort of disease. What other selling points will be nerfed in the future CCP? Maybe we shouldn't really have 3 toons per account and therefore have to pay 3x the amount that we are paying right now to pop a cyno; that seems like a bug to me. Ut oh, I think that I just gave them an idea.
well, to have those alts on one account, don't you have to either have an alt account from which to transfer (for a fee), or have to buy an alt character to add to your account (for a few); both of which ways, the characters are created by... ghost training?
oh wait... that doesn't happen anymore. oh well, there's all that alt transfer money gone as well.
|
Kheldar Silk
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 07:08:00 -
[3967]
[I've already said this but: "I don't care about the nerf, I do care about CCP's ongoing dishonesty and slimy tactics. And WHERE THE **** IS THE CSM?"]
Just a thought. Rather than sitting there whinging why not do something about it? Grab a phone book, look up some important people in CCP (President, CEO, directors) and start calling, sending them intelligent emails, or even better send snail-mail. Chances are that one letter will be missed, but an important suit-wearer who has nothing to do with the game may just take it up. You never know til you try.
Personally, I'm lazy -- I'm on my way to Jita to scream obscenities in local and park my 2 biggest ships across Jita 4's exit.
(-2 accounts (yesterday)) |
JanSVK
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 07:10:00 -
[3968]
Originally by: Carsidava Nope, sorry. This doesn't wash.
If you disable skill training for inactive accounts, why aren't you also disabling market orders from inactive accounts? Why aren't you also disabling RP accumulation from inactive accounts? Why aren't you disabling dividend payouts to inactive accounts?
Why are only skill points being hit?
Sorry CCP, this is an entirely unsatisfactory answer.
Now that you mentioned it they might do it . |
Counter Spy
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 07:37:00 -
[3969]
Originally by: NupetietVer Don't hate CCP for practicing World of Darkness features on EVE. CCP's take on WoW will rock!
Dont worry, if the CCP cheated the MMO players the World of Darkness will go to ruin very fast. We will not playing with a game of cheater.
Consequences:
1. Eve profit to World of Darkness will go crap and World of Darkness will be fail. 2. Eve playerbase decreasing and profit too.
Bye,bye Ferraris, the live every now and then harder then Eve and live come to colder place. |
huxorator
Intergalactic Serenity Skunk-Works
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 07:49:00 -
[3970]
After the introduction of the 60d GTC (which is priced considerably higher), this is the next hit on player pockets. I really need to rethink wether I need (and can effort) to have more than 1 account. |
|
Nypon
Unseen University
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 08:06:00 -
[3971]
at hiding this thread. |
BIind
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 08:07:00 -
[3972]
Originally by: CCP Wrangler
Originally by: Seth Ruin
Originally by: Son Korhal Edited by: Son Korhal on 14/10/2008 17:52:30
Originally by: CCP Wrangler Test2
Lost for words on another epic ccp fail idea?
Edit: Ok wrangler likes to delete his own posts.
Makes me think the "test" posts are possibly Wrangler trying to fix this thread? Could be that it disappeared entirely by accident, and they're actually trying to fix it
Yes, we're trying to fix it but we'll need to have web take a look at it. It's still accessible through the other sticky though.
How are people, who are unable to fix a forum thread in 40 hours, still employed? |
Counter Spy
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 08:13:00 -
[3973]
We look at it from the new players' visual angle what will be the consequence. All learning learning skill 2 months and the player does nothing quasi till then. Not amusing the game for young characters just grind and boring learning skills . With what long the skills tires of it soon and loses the game. There was one single thing like that, that back the ghost training may have lured it into the game. So will not come back. With what from among the older players who preserve the game likewise many people go away, in this manner much of CCP income fall down on long distance. Will lesser old player and the new players not come to the game. Smart choice CCP guys. |
Ezoran DuBlaidd
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 08:27:00 -
[3974]
Originally by: Counter Spy
Originally by: NupetietVer Don't hate CCP for practicing World of Darkness features on EVE. CCP's take on WoW will rock!
Dont worry, if the CCP cheated the MMO players the World of Darkness will go to ruin very fast. We will not playing with a game of cheater.
Consequences:
1. Eve profit to World of Darkness will go crap and World of Darkness will be fail. 2. Eve playerbase decreasing and profit too.
Bye,bye Ferraris, the live every now and then harder then Eve and live come to colder place.
oh, that's right, this IS ccp/eve online... thought i was reading an anti-smed/soe thread...
easy mistake lately, eh? |
padraig animal
Minmatar Vanguard Frontiers Violent-Tendencies
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 08:31:00 -
[3975]
Quote: Definition of Subscribers EVE Online subscribers include individuals who have paid a subscription fee or have an active electronic time code (ETC) to play EVE Online, as well as those who have purchased the game and are within their free month of access. The above definition excludes all players under free promotional subscriptions, expired or cancelled subscriptions and expired ETCs.
|
Gara Al'Malik
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 08:32:00 -
[3976]
Originally by: Counter Spy We look at it from the new players' visual angle what will be the consequence. All learning learning skill 2 months and the player does nothing quasi till then. Not amusing the game for young characters just grind and boring learning skills . With what long the skills tires of it soon and loses the game.
There are some valid problems with the way ccp announced the disabling of ghost training but this is crap. New players have a lot of things to do and experiment in the beginning even if they decide to mostly train learning skills (which is not the be the best idea unless you are total munchkin). Infact eve is still the only mmorpg that I know that doesn't require you to grind to advance your character. |
Charis D'Asgar
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 08:50:00 -
[3977]
Edited by: Charis D''Asgar on 16/10/2008 08:57:12 Time goes on and nothing happen... It seems like CCP is pretending they know nothing about community rage... Some people will go, but some will stay and some new people come, and they will know nothing about ghost-training and CCP's dirty tricks, as I've known nothing about T20 accident... But time was choused wrong, IMO... There are many games that are coming soon. Games, which need MUCH LESS time to see considerable results of player's energies. Some people compared ghost-training to WOW. They've forgotten, that in WOW you may become 60 lvl (it may be Dread piloting in EVE) less then a month with their new "Invite a Friend", and 70 lvl in full epic (read û Titan and all skills) in 3-4 months of not hardcore playing. Time? Timeà Time!!! Yep - EVE is unique, time based game, itÆs possible to learn skills offline. But time is money - and the time is needed for considerable results haven't changed, though money paid for it grows up... CCP takes, but gives nothing. So called "actively playing" (misspelled? may be "paying"?) have no advantages comparing to players, that just switch skills. Skills are not learning faster, playing does nothing at all - just ISKs and headaches of dying in lags. And there will be no ticket in mind of retied players ôMy skills ends learning tomorrow û may be itÆs time to come back?ö
I donÆt know, what IÆll do, when my signup will endà Already -2, but it would be a hard decision to continue play EVE, so it may easily become -6à Never traded characters, played them myself, payed at least every 3 months for 60 GTC for each of accounts and did never plan to leaveà Butà It becomes more and more boringà And all that shità And no basical changesà Heheà
Life goes on... |
Gorek Loc
Etherware Heavy Engineering
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 08:57:00 -
[3978]
I can't see what the difference is between disabling 'ghost-training' and having market orders up while the account is inactive? Or not halting the accumulation or Research Points from agents when inactive!
If CCP wants to make inactive accounts unusable, take a full step, not a half-hearted attempt! No training, no market orders, no contracts, no research points. It shouldn't be harder to implement than halting training.
Market orders take longer to expire than even the very longest skills to train!
|
Azuraito
Caldari Capital Produce Free Trade Zone.
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 08:57:00 -
[3979]
EVE fanfest anyone?
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mamolian
Madhatters Inc.
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 08:58:00 -
[3980]
Not my training backbone! /\ |
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Gorek Loc
Etherware Heavy Engineering
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 08:59:00 -
[3981]
Originally by: Truthbringer I normally take breaks from the game and the fact that my characters are still training is one of the major factors that brings me back. Now that this will no longer be the case, expect my next sabbatical to be permanent. This was a VERY poor marketing decision. You should expect to see your active accounts trickle off in the next few months.
This, signed. |
Counter Spy
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 09:00:00 -
[3982]
Originally by: Gara Al'Malik
Originally by: Counter Spy We look at it from the new players' visual angle what will be the consequence. All learning learning skill 2 months and the player does nothing quasi till then. Not amusing the game for young characters just grind and boring learning skills . With what long the skills tires of it soon and loses the game.
There are some valid problems with the way ccp announced the disabling of ghost training but this is crap. New players have a lot of things to do and experiment in the beginning even if they decide to mostly train learning skills (which is not the be the best idea unless you are total munchkin). Infact eve is still the only mmorpg that I know that doesn't require you to grind to advance your character.
Not need grind for a starter character ? If you give for them ISK from main account. But yes the starter character need grind. They can't use better weapons and modules without money, and for their skills not enabled jus lvl1 or lvl2 agents, they can't fight in low sec, they can't fight in 0.0. It may be used as a bullet trap of course, but who want to be bullet trap ? And another thing, he can't survive alone. Or he not go to agents just go to belt for mining or looking for faction npc spawn. The mining is boring too and the NPC farming IS grind. |
Nithhogr Red
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 09:05:00 -
[3983]
I am sad to say this is the last straw for me as well. I have 4 accounts, 2 still active (1 from the 1st month of the game) and 2 which I have only just let lapse while they train long skills - as originally advertised by CCP as a feature. I have got bored with various parts of the game and had decided to take a break for a while and return when I can get interested in the game again - as we all do from time to time with all MMO's - but in the meantime keeping my skills training by buying a months gaming every other month. Now, because of this action, by removing an advertised feature (and then trying some good old British political spin to try and say it was always a bug), CCP will have 0 active accounts from me instead of 2 active and 2 semi-active accounts. Not a big loss for them in the scheme of things, but as they said snowflakes add up and eventaully become an avalanche. It's a shame that CCP have gone from one of the best player support companies to what they have now become, a sign of the times I guess and a growing company. Anyway it's been a pleasure, see you on the darkside.
p.s No you can't have my stuff, it's just going to rot there. and no I won't be going to CCP's new game (because of this new attitude from CCP) |
Hastrabull
Caldari Beach Boys BeachBoys
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 09:14:00 -
[3984]
Edited by: Hastrabull on 16/10/2008 09:16:00 Funny thing really.
i all hang dogs on CCP, because CCP gave you functionality that most of you abused (for example guy at the top of this page).
Now when CCP is getting rid of you, you all fall into complete emo rage against CCP.
You know how would I call it? Its pathetic, its Hypocrisy! |
Phil MaCracken
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 09:17:00 -
[3985]
Can we get our money back for the times we didn't log in and did pay?!?! |
Gara Al'Malik
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 09:17:00 -
[3986]
Originally by: Counter Spy
Not need grind for a starter character ? If you give for them ISK from main account. But yes the starter character need grind.
No. You can trade to get isk and the skills advance without xp grind. You can also join some player corp and get the basic equipment from the corporation since frigates, destroyers and t1 cruisers with t1 basic modules don't really cost anything to older players. Also I wouldn't consider the first missions you do grinding. It becomes grinding only after you do it a lot.
Quote:
They can't use better weapons and modules without money, and for their skills not enabled jus lvl1 or lvl2 agents, they can't fight in low sec, they can't fight in 0.0. It may be used as a bullet trap of course, but who want to be bullet trap ? And another thing, he can't survive alone.
So what if they can only do level ones and twos? The low level missions are as fun ( or dull, depending on your point of view to missioning) as the higher level missions. You can also act as a salvager to older players running missions. Also starting characters can be useful in pvp. Not as dps but as tacklers and ewar. |
Rramar Claime
Amarr Task Force Zener Atlas Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 09:22:00 -
[3987]
Oh well what an (un)fortunate coincidence AGAIN, that this thread engaged its t2 covops cloak and became invisible. Well well i guess this was an unintended feature. Not? It is so cool that these strange things happen around ccp. missterrrrioussss.
|
Casandra Snow
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 09:27:00 -
[3988]
No Payment - no skill training. Well, thats how it should work. |
Charis D'Asgar
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 09:31:00 -
[3989]
Edited by: Charis D''Asgar on 16/10/2008 09:31:48 If we talk about full unusability of unpayed accounts - it should be no RP, no contracts, no orders, no jobs and no skills. THAT IS how it should work. Nowdays it's just a money grab. |
Regal's Assassin
Amarr Industrial Legion of EVE
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 09:32:00 -
[3990]
This is a stupid move CCP. I will be cutting back to one account from now on directly because of this.
The reason? I recently had to take some time off eve to do an exam for work. I took a month off and set some long skills (40 days) to complete. Because of the old policy, when I came back eve was 'new' to me again and I have had great fun playing it. Now, if I CHOOSE to not reactivate my subscription because RL takes over/i'm bored with the game and need a break, when I come back the game will be exactly the same and therefore I am VERY unlikely to spend ú20 a month of it.
It's a sad day, thats all I can say. |
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Counter Spy
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 09:33:00 -
[3991]
Originally by: Gara Al'Malik
Originally by: Counter Spy
Not need grind for a starter character ? If you give for them ISK from main account. But yes the starter character need grind.
No. You can trade to get isk and the skills advance without xp grind. You can also join some player corp and get the basic equipment from the corporation since frigates, destroyers and t1 cruisers with t1 basic modules don't really cost anything to older players. Also I wouldn't consider the first missions you do grinding. It becomes grinding only after you do it a lot.
Quote:
They can't use better weapons and modules without money, and for their skills not enabled jus lvl1 or lvl2 agents, they can't fight in low sec, they can't fight in 0.0. It may be used as a bullet trap of course, but who want to be bullet trap ? And another thing, he can't survive alone.
So what if they can only do level ones and twos? The low level missions are as fun ( or dull, depending on your point of view to missioning) as the higher level missions. You can also act as a salvager to older players running missions. Also starting characters can be useful in pvp. Not as dps but as tacklers and ewar.
??? Go trade without money ? How mutch money need for trading ? Oh no he will traid 2 isk/day and another thing he need skillbook for train and trade skill and more. Oh starter character need something ? Need corp ? Need money ? Need ship, need skills ?
Low level mission is fun ? LOL how mutch time need for boring ?
Let's see the starter character good for PvP thing. 1-2 months character can use t2 guns that's real, because he not need learning if starting a soldier. But need learning skills and he learning 1 or 1,5 months ago learning skills. He cant use good modules just shit and if should be use better t1 modules, that is really high prices. What he will doing if corpmates not online ? Nothing because he just a bullet trap nothing else. He will go to mission, or mining or just spin ship in station. That is very boring thing at time to time. |
Hey You
Destructive Influence Band of Brothers
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 09:35:00 -
[3992]
dumbest move ccp made in a while...
who is this affecting the most?
Old timers with lot of accounts that used to pay for em with GTCs.
First GTC change now this.
Are 0.0 population your main source of money? now they are not.
sad
|
Hul'ka
Minmatar MicroFunks
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 09:36:00 -
[3993]
So… Your company is suffering a loss because one of my characters is training one skill for a month while I'm on holidays? Or on a business trip? Or on a battlefield? If there is a surge in this behavior, it’s because there are more people playing the game, but also more people going on holidays/trips/deployment…. And notice it’s a financial crisis in the world! Maybe that’s the reason why some of the people are taking a brake from some luxury, like EVE is for some atm. And you cut them short? And you give them the reason not to return?
And people have multiple accounts! I have 4, atm can’t afford 2 of them so I put them in hybernation. My in game business is suffering because of this, but I really didn’t expect you’ll come in with this, yet another brilliant anty customer idea and cut me short of at least the pleasure of finding their 20 days skills complete.
If you ware a real company you would show at least a bit of respect to your customers. This is a sign of disrespect. Like that “nerf nano” thing issue - multiple threads, thousands of posts, thousands of players asking for an answer, and all we get is a live dev blog with generic questions, generic answers, deployment on SISI with no real change to the first version (xept mwd reactivation).
CCP IS a greedy money chewing monster!! Make no mistake about it. |
Rumless
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 09:47:00 -
[3994]
No way!!
This is in no way good, you will notice how many players stop playing cuz of this
/signed as "#%"Crap$ |
Gorek Loc
Etherware Heavy Engineering
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 09:49:00 -
[3995]
Originally by: Jocho Edited by: Jocho on 14/10/2008 23:11:45 Useful Link 1 Useful Link 2 Notice how he says "whipped" - clearly a bug if he's being done for saying it's going to be 'fixed'... Useful link 4
Some useful links, to show this is anything but a bug.
Thank you for providing the first picture-link, it has been changed to reflect a grim future. Without a notice, of course. The edited player-guide |
Gara Al'Malik
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 09:54:00 -
[3996]
Originally by: Counter Spy
??? Go trade without money ? How mutch money need for trading ? Oh no he will traid 2 isk/day and another thing he need skillbook for train and trade skill and more.
You need very little capital to make profit equal to what you get from the level one and two missions. It's not hard to make profit with low capital since the serious traders are only interested in items where they can invest many millions.
Quote:
Oh starter character need something ? Need corp ? Need money ? Need ship, need skills ?
You lost me there. What do you mean? Sure they need stuff. And...?
Quote:
Low level mission is fun ? LOL how mutch time need for boring ?
Well, I enjoyed them for a couple of months. Not everyone likes missioning as I said in my post. What was your point?
Quote:
Let's see the starter character good for PvP thing. 1-2 months character can use t2 guns that's real, because he not need learning if starting a soldier. But need learning skills and he learning 1 or 1,5 months ago learning skills. He cant use good modules just shit and if should be use better t1 modules, that is really high prices.
Did you even read my post? I said that starter characters are not good as dps. So no need for t2 guns. You just need a web, scrambler, ecm or a disruptor. They don't need to be t2 or best named to be useful.
Quote:
What he will doing if corpmates not online ? Nothing because he just a bullet trap nothing else. He will go to mission, or mining or just spin ship in station. That is very boring thing at time to time.
Of course solo pvp is hard/impossible for starter char, but then again eve pvp is mostly not solo. You can join a big enough corp or fw so that you don't get lonely and have mates to go pvp with. Or trade, go fooling around in low sec/null sec, haul stuff or whatever other things you like in eve. |
Franga
NQX Innovations
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 10:01:00 -
[3997]
Holy crap! 132 pages.
That's some hardcore whinging there. |
Gara Al'Malik
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 10:04:00 -
[3998]
Originally by: Franga Holy crap! 132 pages.
That's some hardcore whinging there.
Yes it is. I've almost filled my pod with sweet whiner tears. Only need a few more pages. |
Turismo
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 10:13:00 -
[3999]
Originally by: Deviana Sevidon I would like to give you the following quote from a member from MMORPG.
The User Enkidu said the perfect response to most people here:
Quote: I've been playing EvE for 4 years on and off. I never used "ghost training" because it seemed unethical to me- sort of like buying a suit to wear to a job interview and then returning it afterward. I've worked in several industries and professions, and I don't recall ever feeling obligated to provide service to a customer who had stopped paying for that service. Many of my associates in the game would say "I'm going inactive while I train BS V," or something similar- amd it always struck me as a bit sleazy.
here's a phenomenon I like to call "ungrateful housepet syndrome:"
When you scratch a dog's head, the dog likes it, and the dog gets used to it.
When you stop, the dog doesn't think "wow that was nice, thanks for scratching my head while it lasted," but rather looks at you as if to say "why the hell are you stopping? how dare you!"
People are the same way.. if you offer them access to a pleasant or advantageous situation and they get used to it, and then circumstances change for PERFECTLY VALID reasons, they NEVER say "hey thanks, that was cool while it lasted..." but rather "this sucks! I'm getting screwed!"
Things like this are just part of a constantly growing mountain of evidence that more and more people have no sense of personal honor or the desire to do the right thing JUST BECAUSE it's the right thing to do. All people care about is what they can get away with. Okay, you can get back to the whinefest now.
Woof.
I love the ungrateful housepet analogy. You never get this kind of problem with houseplants that live on fertilizer without complaint.
Unistalled everything related to Eve yesterday. -4 accounts. I am not leaving as a protest. I know full well this was the feature that kept me coming back to Eve and that my next break was going to be my last so why bother.
I think in the long run CCP are right to do this, even if they did it in the wrong way.
Honestly, the best thing that could happen in Eve is if the rich old-time players stopped coming back after breaks and take their alts, isk, and t2 bpos with them.
Unlimited growth and wealth for players is the actual cause of Eve balance issues. There is no chance for new players to even dream about forging an empire in this virtual universe with so many dragons around.
|
Counter Spy
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 10:15:00 -
[4000]
Originally by: Gara Al'Malik
Originally by: Counter Spy
??? Go trade without money ? How mutch money need for trading ? Oh no he will traid 2 isk/day and another thing he need skillbook for train and trade skill and more.
You need very little capital to make profit equal to what you get from the level one and two missions. It's not hard to make profit with low capital since the serious traders are only interested in items where they can invest many millions.
Quote:
Oh starter character need something ? Need corp ? Need money ? Need ship, need skills ?
You lost me there. What do you mean? Sure they need stuff. And...?
Quote:
Low level mission is fun ? LOL how mutch time need for boring ?
Well, I enjoyed them for a couple of months. Not everyone likes missioning as I said in my post. What was your point?
Quote:
Let's see the starter character good for PvP thing. 1-2 months character can use t2 guns that's real, because he not need learning if starting a soldier. But need learning skills and he learning 1 or 1,5 months ago learning skills. He cant use good modules just shit and if should be use better t1 modules, that is really high prices.
Did you even read my post? I said that starter characters are not good as dps. So no need for t2 guns. You just need a web, scrambler, ecm or a disruptor. They don't need to be t2 or best named to be useful.
Quote:
What he will doing if corpmates not online ? Nothing because he just a bullet trap nothing else. He will go to mission, or mining or just spin ship in station. That is very boring thing at time to time.
Of course solo pvp is hard/impossible for starter char, but then again eve pvp is mostly not solo. You can join a big enough corp or fw so that you don't get lonely and have mates to go pvp with. Or trade, go fooling around in low sec/null sec, haul stuff or whatever other things you like in eve.
Oh no another wrong answer.
Starter character need for PvP skillbooks, money, ships or more ships when lost one, pvp skills. How mutch months need for that ? Not one. At least 4 or more. Just 2 months the learning skills. Want to use MWD , disruptor, web, better ships, resists , extenders, rigs, salvager ? You need cap ? You can't fit the ship because you have not enough PG or CPU ? That's it all cost for time. So, starter character need grind for money for skill and he can't do anything when mates not online for him.
Trade, you can't get enough money from traiding if you not have enough money and the skillbooks and expenses eat their profits.
Solo PvP hard/impossible for starter character alone ? Not hard/impossible, just rare like a white crow. And you want send him to low and 0.0 systems ? That is a joke. He will be tanking a 0.0 bs with their noobship or frig ? LOL |
|
Parasite S
Perkone
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 10:17:00 -
[4001]
Edited by: Parasite S on 16/10/2008 10:17:23
Originally by: Gara Al'Malik
You need very little capital to make profit equal to what you get from the level one and two missions. It's not hard to make profit with low capital since the serious traders are only interested in items where they can invest many millions.
You lost me there. What do you mean? Sure they need stuff. And...?
Well, I enjoyed them for a couple of months. Not everyone likes missioning as I said in my post. What was your point?
Did you even read my post? I said that starter characters are not good as dps. So no need for t2 guns. You just need a web, scrambler, ecm or a disruptor. They don't need to be t2 or best named to be useful.
Of course solo pvp is hard/impossible for starter char, but then again eve pvp is mostly not solo. You can join a big enough corp or fw so that you don't get lonely and have mates to go pvp with. Or trade, go fooling around in low sec/null sec, haul stuff or whatever other things you like in eve.
1.So you saw a nooby activly trading on his first day for enough income and with the right stuff yeah... or even a nooby directly knowing which mission to go for and maybe ending up in lowsec *thanks to faction warfare now* directly being stripped of his tutorial frigate. *in most cases not even well fitted*
if you start a char over without money its poor grind to get the first 5 millions not more not less.
2. if you really dont get it.... he trys to point out that without the grind mentioned above your char wont evolve at all.
3. a couple of month? wow how active you plaied? 2h 3days a week maybe? if i start a new agent now it only takes me barely 40min and i had the same mission 3 times... not to mention the loot is just aweful and the salvage sucks in most cases
4. so how much big/smaller corps let those "noobs" with web, scrambler and nothing more in today? right nearly none. the big corps which could advance them easy and live in 0.0 have sp limit. the smaller pvp ones in lowsec cant use it since gategun aggro vs normal frig = pop. not to mention this poeple arent made yet to find people in belts and tackle them....
5. some people maybe acctualy play the game to be online with others? join a bigger corp sure... have a look arround in recruitment channel but keep in mind that even 30 people corps are mostly up to 50% alts *which will now just shrink thanks to nerf* and the remaining player arent that activ aswell in most cases than. and normal is that as bigger and stronger the corp gets as more picky it is so..... you wont make it in. |
BIind
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 10:18:00 -
[4002]
Edited by: BIind on 16/10/2008 10:18:21
Originally by: Turismo
Originally by: Deviana Sevidon I would like to give you the following quote from a member from MMORPG.
The User Enkidu said the perfect response to most people here:
Quote: I've been playing EvE for 4 years on and off. I never used "ghost training" because it seemed unethical to me- sort of like buying a suit to wear to a job interview and then returning it afterward. I've worked in several industries and professions, and I don't recall ever feeling obligated to provide service to a customer who had stopped paying for that service. Many of my associates in the game would say "I'm going inactive while I train BS V," or something similar- amd it always struck me as a bit sleazy.
here's a phenomenon I like to call "ungrateful housepet syndrome:"
When you scratch a dog's head, the dog likes it, and the dog gets used to it.
When you stop, the dog doesn't think "wow that was nice, thanks for scratching my head while it lasted," but rather looks at you as if to say "why the hell are you stopping? how dare you!"
People are the same way.. if you offer them access to a pleasant or advantageous situation and they get used to it, and then circumstances change for PERFECTLY VALID reasons, they NEVER say "hey thanks, that was cool while it lasted..." but rather "this sucks! I'm getting screwed!"
Things like this are just part of a constantly growing mountain of evidence that more and more people have no sense of personal honor or the desire to do the right thing JUST BECAUSE it's the right thing to do. All people care about is what they can get away with. Okay, you can get back to the whinefest now.
Woof.
I love the ungrateful housepet analogy. You never get this kind of problem with houseplants that live on fertilizer without complaint.
Dog Training and the Withdrawal of Attention |
Gara Al'Malik
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 10:31:00 -
[4003]
Originally by: Counter Spy
Starter character need for PvP skillbooks, money, ships or more ships when lost one, pvp skills. How mutch months need for that ? Not one. At least 4 or more. Just 2 months the learning skills. Want to use MWD , disruptor, web, better ships, resists , extenders, rigs, salvager ? You need cap ? You can't fit the ship because you have not enough PG or CPU ? That's it all cost for time.
So, starter character need grind for money for skill and he can't do anything when mates not online for him.
Yes you need isk I already explained where you can get the money without grinding. Read my previous post again. I don't have the numbers but you don't need many days to be able to use at least some of the modules I wrote about in my previous post so you can start being useful in pvp. Of course you won't be teh masterer when you start, but that's how it should work. And about those mates, if you read my previous post, you'll find a solution to the problem of being alone. Should I make a link for you so you can find it?
Quote:
Trade, you can't get enough money from traiding if you not have enough money and the skillbooks and expenses eat their profits.
Yes you can if you spend some time to look at the markets and do a bit of thinking. There are lots of items around that can be traded for 100% to 1000% margins.
Quote:
And you want send him to low and 0.0 systems ? That is a joke. He will be tanking a 0.0 bs with their noobship or frig ? LOL
I said "fooling around in low sec/null sec". That means you just go there, fly around and see what's going on. For a new player that can very well be interesting even if you get blown up few times. |
mamaki
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 10:33:00 -
[4004]
Originally by: Turismo
Originally by: Deviana Sevidon I would like to give you the following quote from a member from MMORPG.
The User Enkidu said the perfect response to most people here:
Quote: I've been playing EvE for 4 years on and off. I never used "ghost training" because it seemed unethical to me- sort of like buying a suit to wear to a job interview and then returning it afterward. I've worked in several industries and professions, and I don't recall ever feeling obligated to provide service to a customer who had stopped paying for that service. Many of my associates in the game would say "I'm going inactive while I train BS V," or something similar- amd it always struck me as a bit sleazy.
here's a phenomenon I like to call "ungrateful housepet syndrome:"
When you scratch a dog's head, the dog likes it, and the dog gets used to it.
When you stop, the dog doesn't think "wow that was nice, thanks for scratching my head while it lasted," but rather looks at you as if to say "why the hell are you stopping? how dare you!"
People are the same way.. if you offer them access to a pleasant or advantageous situation and they get used to it, and then circumstances change for PERFECTLY VALID reasons, they NEVER say "hey thanks, that was cool while it lasted..." but rather "this sucks! I'm getting screwed!"
Things like this are just part of a constantly growing mountain of evidence that more and more people have no sense of personal honor or the desire to do the right thing JUST BECAUSE it's the right thing to do. All people care about is what they can get away with. Okay, you can get back to the whinefest now.
Woof.
I love the ungrateful housepet analogy. You never get this kind of problem with houseplants that live on fertilizer without complaint.
Unistalled everything related to Eve yesterday. -4 accounts. I am not leaving as a protest. I know full well this was the feature that kept me coming back to Eve and that my next break was going to be my last so why bother.
I think in the long run CCP are right to do this, even if they did it in the wrong way.
Honestly, the best thing that could happen in Eve is if the rich old-time players stopped coming back after breaks and take their alts, isk, and t2 bpos with them.
Unlimited growth and wealth for players is the actual cause of Eve balance issues. There is no chance for new players to even dream about forging an empire in this virtual universe with so many dragons around.
This is exactly my thoughts, i never used ghost training but i was going to use in one of my alts, all this stuff was enough for me to open my eyes and see how bad metagaming is, therefore i'm reducing my active accounts from 3 to 1 (maybe 0, waiting for a petition response related to a transfer char).
I also think it will be a good thing to eve, less old timers and also less alts, it might loose some charisma because of some great players going away but oh well, it's life i guess.
My main concern are my friends that will not come back because before the lv.5 skill was my main argument to convince them to keep coming back |
Fink Angel
Caldari The Merry Men
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 10:34:00 -
[4005]
Thing is, this cuts both ways. It was always "knock for knock" before; I scratch your back, you scratch mine.
Now we're entering into a more formal business relationship, I'd like to be compensated for all time lost due to all extended downtimes.
I'm paying for 23*7, and I don't get it. |
Chani Fedaykin
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 10:42:00 -
[4006]
ok ... this will get lengthy, but it will be my only comment related to this topic
even if some people might reactivate their accounts in order to keep them training, i guess (and its just that i admit) that a majority will reduce their number of accounts because now they will have to keep them subscribed all time to benefit from skill training. so ccp might not experience a loss in profit solely based upon the removal of 'ghost' training. e.g. someone with a (permanent paid) main and two alt accounts (ghost switching) might consider to drop one alt and permanently pay 2 accounts. On the other hand, some people might start sticking to one account instead of multiple ones (or perhaps two) which would still have a negative impact on the income of ccp.
Moreover what ccp gives up, is not the uniqueness of eve online (which is still there compared to other mmo's because of offline - not unpaid - skill training), but the incentive for players that have choosen to let their account expire because of different reasons (eg. burnout, boredom, lack of time to play, etc) to actually return to eve and resubscribe their accounts. In that context ghost training was a unique feature that targeted players who left eve for something different and actually gave them a reason to return to eve. Which means basically ghost training was a mechanism to drastically increase (long term) player rentention. Now ... even if ccp might not experience a loss in direct income (see paragraph 1) ... in the long run, they will notice that players who left for whatever reason, wont come back to eve and resubscribe, which obviously will be a loss in profit. Even if they develop a different strategy to assure that 'lost' customers return to eve, they will have to give them a valid incentive in order to do so, which ofc will reduce their profit too.
Considering those two paragraphs, i would have to conclude that the removal of ghost training is simply a marketing decision - which hopefully was analysed in depth before making it - and i would see no reason why i should object it. i would simply react to the change and (in my case) would just keep my main, because in the current state i am not going to fully pay an account that i hardly use. I have to add however, that the 'vanishing' account was paid way more than 50% of the past time, because i was able to either afford the money or isk. Just to add an additional aspect: my third account has been unsubscribed for some time now (way beyond ghost training), because of ccp's choice to alter their gtc policy which caused an increase in isk for gtc prices. But that again was a marketing decision of ccp, which hopefully turned out to be the correct one for their profit - i just reacted and made my decision that at the current stage it was not reasonable for me to have 3 accounts.
Now to some different aspects of ccp's decision to remove ghost training
the whole process on how they decided to present this new move to their customers was (imo) inacceptable.
eve could be considered to have a quite intelligent player base - most likely resulting from the complexity of the game and the necessary learning curve. if you make a decision, PLEASE try to stick to valid, logical, comprehensible reasons. the commented reasons where given in the original thread by ccp fallout as well as the blog by ccp t0rfifrans
ad ... long overdue change i cant remember to ever have seen any statement, that this is on any todo-list. thus this statement lacks any backup information and can not be considered to be valid.
...to be continued... |
Avalon Champion
Gallente Defence Evaluation Research Agency
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 10:43:00 -
[4007]
Maybe everyone should read this topic http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=898306
Just a thought : To all those that are threating to quit or have done so already why not make it permenant and Biomas those toons on the cancelled subscriptions to really show CCP how serious you are.
|
Chani Fedaykin
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 10:43:00 -
[4008]
ad ... upsets the balance of the game could you please explain how unpaid training will affect the game balance? IF game balance would be affected how would the requirement to have an active subscription to continue gather sp adjust that balance? the things that would rather affect balance than 'ghost training' would be the other (not commented) ghost features of the game. thus again not a valid reason.
ad ... active capsulers unfairly affected by [unpaid ones] an active capsuler will be able to generate income, standings, connections etc compared to an offline or unpaid account. if you want to achieve something in eve, you are still forced to be able to log in, because achievements in eve are not (solely) based upon sp. but unpaid training can reduce the negative effect for a player that decides to quit eve for a while for whatever reason, thus giving an actual incentive to return.
ad ... it was a bug if it was a bug, what prevented ccp to fix it x years ago? it was well-known, otherwise it wouldnt have been listed in the gameguide. again not a possible reason.
ad ... not fair towards ccp as service provider if someone managed to pay 50% (30d paid / 30d ghost) for an additional account, most likely he paid 50% more than he would have paid otherwise, because i doubt there would be as many users with multiple accounts. so actually ccp had a monetary benefit. not valid again.
ad ... not fair towards other players just a guess, but i doubt there are many - if even any - complaints of players that 'ghost' training was possible. besides someone using 'ghost' accounts is not able to activly use those characters. thus the only real benefits (of ghost training) would be gained sp. there is no single statement on all the other 'ghost' features (trading, manufacturing, research, ceo, ...) so this seems to be no problem for ccp? besides is it fair that some people have to possibility to alter their skill training at any given time thanks to their timetable/job/... whereas others have a much harder time to prevent 'loss' of skillpoints due to not beeing able to change their skill in time? is it fair that certain people dont have the opportunity to play eve 10h/day whereas others have it? is it fair that certain people have the possibility to maintain multiple accounts whereas others dont? i would never start to complain about these 'unfair' possibilities others have over me, but i dont see the point where ghost training will give an unfair advantage compared to other restrictions/limitations/possibilities of eve. again not a reasonable statement.
ad ... weight on our database infrastructure how about free trial accounts, how about that ccp promotes the creation of additional accounts with offers like 'power of 2'. considering the amount of data stored, give us some (valid) numbers to backup your statement. eg. long time inactive accounts vs. ghost training accounts vs. active accounts. i doubt, that there is a huge workload for the servers for inactive accounts using ghost training, but if i am mistaken i would really appreciate an explanation how inactive accounts cause load on the servers. ghost sales might cause load in connection to an inactive account, however the sale would have happened anyways (just with an active character instead of a ghost) so this causes no additional load. thus - without backup information - irrelevant again.
ad ... ccp noticed a surge in the trend could it be that the changes related to the gtc system, which obviously made the concurrent use of multiple accounts more expensive, caused the increase of 'ghost' training? which would be a development that would have been easy to predict :P
...to be continued... |
Chani Fedaykin
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 10:43:00 -
[4009]
a final statement on character breeding (which anyways is no reason that ccp gave) character farmers are not hurt in the first place, because prices for characters will most likely (in the long run) go up to reflect the additional payment required to train them. They might even benefit in the short term because characters sold still had the possibility to benefit from ghost training. On the other hand, people might get rid of alts and sell them, so there could be an influx of available characters for sale for a short time. Anyways, as i said before, i suppose prices will go up in the long run reflecting the change. Which could lead to less characters beeing bought because of higher prices, which again might cause a price drop again. Only the future will tell how exactly it will affect character sales, but in general i think character farmers wont get hurt by this move of ccp
so far to the reasons given by ccp to justify their move. i coudlnt find any valid point, perhaps with additional backup information the one or other could be reasonable.
next to the lack of valid reasons, the whole move was announced 2 days in advance in a small simple post without real background information. after the obvious predictable reaction of many players, the thread was closed and a dev blog created including some more information and justification of the move. announcing such a major change in game mechanics 2 days in advance is not acceptable in my opinion. besides to the fact that there was no hint at all that this feature/bug would be target to any changes. such an announcment should be well planned in advance, which it was obviously not. otherwise there would have been a dev blog with information right away (and i am not even talking about the content of the current dev blog).
all in all, i dont object the move per se. as i mentioned before i would have adjusted and continued. however even with proper handling i doubt that ccp would gain a benefit from this move, but thats their decision which i would have to respect. moreover the handling and presentation of this change leaves a very bitter taste in my mouth - and i am quite sure i am not alone with this. as i mentioned at the start, i have two accounts atm which have been paid most time, a third one is inactive (not even ghost training) thanks to the gtc price increase. with the chance gone to reduce the cost for at least one account a bit due to ghost training, i will for sure strip the 2nd account and let him rest in peace. this would leave ccp with 1 account instead of approx. 1,7 (or 2,2 considering the gtc change). however thanks to their inability to properly handle the whole thing and the fact that i am an inactive (but subscribed) player atm due to more important real life issues, i am not yet sure if i will renew my main account end of november. with ghost training available, i would have set a skill and either returned to eve when finding more time again or after the training would have been done ... but this incentive seems to be gone now. i feel a bit sorry for eve, but as it is now, ccp managed to make it much easier for me to say goodbye.
thats it - if u managed to read all this wall of words, i have to cheer you. anyways i doubt that it will have a major effect :P |
Counter Spy
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 10:47:00 -
[4010]
Originally by: Gara Al'Malik
Yes you need isk I already explained where you can get the money without grinding. Read my previous post again. I don't have the numbers but you don't need many days to be able to use at least some of the modules I wrote about in my previous post so you can start being useful in pvp. Of course you won't be teh masterer when you start, but that's how it should work. And about those mates, if you read my previous post, you'll find a solution to the problem of being alone. Should I make a link for you so you can find it?
I read your post, but you wrote down many stupid things. Not is the game reality. trade without money ? What you thinking about ? Starter char will make profit with 1000isk to next week 100 millions ? LOL I just say for you, the trade need skills ,transport ship if you want grab money and need lot jurney. Oh yes you will be say that, he not need move just sit in Jita. 1. Jaws kill fast in trade zone, you have 1000isk but they have billions. You will lost. 2. Lot of jump boring too. How mutch jump need 200-500-1000 ?
The 1-2 agents will bring millions / missions ? Not i think, when one npc give to him 4-9k isk. Need a starter player grind and more gring for money. Mining or more mining for money. Hours and more hours for trade. This is all grind. And boring grind. |
|
Gara Al'Malik
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 10:54:00 -
[4011]
Originally by: Parasite S
1.So you saw a nooby activly trading on his first day for enough income and with the right stuff yeah... or even a nooby directly knowing which mission to go for and maybe ending up in lowsec *thanks to faction warfare now* directly being stripped of his tutorial frigate. *in most cases not even well fitted*
if you start a char over without money its poor grind to get the first 5 millions not more not less.
There is no need to grind for 5 million isk. You can start trading with say 200k and get profits that are comparable with level one missions. It really is not that hard if you spend some time on it. Of course if you feel that even the tutorial missions are boring grinding and can't even finish them to get a small amount of startisk, it might be hard to start training, but in that case it might be that eve is just not for you.
Quote:
2. if you really dont get it.... he trys to point out that without the grind mentioned above your char wont evolve at all.
They need isk, but where to get it has been already discussed.
Quote:
3. a couple of month? wow how active you plaied? 2h 3days a week maybe? if i start a new agent now it only takes me barely 40min and i had the same mission 3 times... not to mention the loot is just aweful and the salvage sucks in most cases
As I said, some people like missions some don't. Some people get bored with them faster than others. No arguments there.
Quote:
4. so how much big/smaller corps let those "noobs" with web, scrambler and nothing more in today? right nearly none. the big corps which could advance them easy and live in 0.0 have sp limit. the smaller pvp ones in lowsec cant use it since gategun aggro vs normal frig = pop. not to mention this poeple arent made yet to find people in belts and tackle them....
My experience with this is different. It's not that hard to find a corp that has active pvp and let's in noobs. And if you're worried about sentries, you can always participate in concord sanctioned wars against other corps.
Quote:
5. some people maybe acctualy play the game to be online with others? join a bigger corp sure... have a look arround in recruitment channel but keep in mind that even 30 people corps are mostly up to 50% alts *which will now just shrink thanks to nerf* and the remaining player arent that activ aswell in most cases than. and normal is that as bigger and stronger the corp gets as more picky it is so..... you wont make it in.
I'd say most eve players are interested in the community aspects of this game. So no arguments there. Again from my experience it's not that hard to find an active pvp corp. |
Rashmika Clavain
Gallente Revelation Space
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 10:56:00 -
[4012]
Originally by: Counter Spy
This is all grind. And boring grind.
Show me ANY mmo where you don't have to grind for money and skill.... oh right, we're playing it, EVE-Online. Skill points here are not a grind; grinding xp is "kill x Orcs, kill y pointy hat wizards".
As for ISK, if I run missions then I do them in a group and they're quite fun. Not as much fun as PVP, but certainly not "This is all grind. And boring grind".
If you're going to quit, just **** off and do it... otherwise stop whining. |
Sen Zinei
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 11:05:00 -
[4013]
Edited by: Sen Zinei on 16/10/2008 11:05:48
Originally by: Deviana Sevidon ...
Unlimited growth and wealth for players is the actual cause of Eve balance issues. There is no chance for new players to even dream about forging an empire in this virtual universe with so many dragons around.
this |
Gara Al'Malik
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 11:15:00 -
[4014]
Edited by: Gara Al''Malik on 16/10/2008 11:16:57 Edited by: Gara Al''Malik on 16/10/2008 11:15:44
Originally by: Counter Spy
I read your post, but you wrote down many stupid things. Not is the game reality. trade without money ? What you thinking about ? Starter char will make profit with 1000isk to next week 100 millions ? LOL I just say for you, the trade need skills ,transport ship if you want grab money and need lot jurney. Oh yes you will be say that, he not need move just sit in Jita. 1. Jaws kill fast in trade zone, you have 1000isk but they have billions. You will lost. 2. Lot of jump boring too. How mutch jump need 200-500-1000 ?
You don't have a clue about trading do you? You need very few very cheap skills to start training. You don't need a transport ship or even an industrial. You don't need to go to Jita. You don't even need to jump around all that much. You can get good deals with station or few jumps orders and many items you can transport in a frigate. If you choose to start station trading in some hub like Jita, no problem. Again, I refer you to my previous posts where I said thats serious traders don't care about items that have low volume, because they can't invest millions there. Many of these items have nice margins and they are perfect for beginning traders.
Also if you re-read my post, you'll notice that I never said that you could get from 1000 isk to 100 million isk in a week.
Quote:
The 1-2 agents will bring millions / missions ? Not i think, when one npc give to him 4-9k isk. Need a starter player grind and more gring for money. Mining or more mining for money. Hours and more hours for trade. This is all grind. And boring grind.
I wouldn't consider trading to be grinding. It's pvp. |
Ezoran DuBlaidd
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 11:16:00 -
[4015]
Originally by: Hastrabull Edited by: Hastrabull on 16/10/2008 09:16:00 Funny thing really.
i all hang dogs on CCP, because CCP gave you functionality that most of you abused (for example guy at the top of this page).
Now when CCP is getting rid of you, you all fall into complete emo rage against CCP.
You know how would I call it? Its pathetic, its Hypocrisy!
you know what another feature is? your skills training while you're offline.
why not? like other features, why can't it go away as well?
hell, why not totally get rid of GTCs while we're at it? i mean those are about as borked as you can get at this point.
and clones... what's the deal with clones? get rid of ALL clones... whenever you die, you just lose the highest rank level 5 skill you have and when those are done, you start at the highest rank level 4 and so on.
why not? it's just advertised features and part of the game, sorta like.... |
Don Shadow
Viper Squad DeStInY.
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 11:20:00 -
[4016]
Originally by: Rashmika Clavain
Originally by: Counter Spy
This is all grind. And boring grind.
Show me ANY mmo where you don't have to grind for money and skill.... oh right, we're playing it, EVE-Online. Skill points here are not a grind; grinding xp is "kill x Orcs, kill y pointy hat wizards".
As for ISK, if I run missions then I do them in a group and they're quite fun. Not as much fun as PVP, but certainly not "This is all grind. And boring grind".
If you're going to quit, just **** off and do it... otherwise stop whining.
Show me ANY mmo where you need at least 1(ONE)YEAR of training to be able to use a ****ing armor or sword! |
Counter Spy
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 11:22:00 -
[4017]
Edited by: Counter Spy on 16/10/2008 11:23:08
Originally by: Gara Al'Malik I'd say most eve players are interested in the community aspects of this game. So no arguments there. Again from my experience it's not that hard to find an active pvp corp.
No, you said stupid things.
Not hard to find a qualified PvP corp with a starter ? LOL
Noob at HQ:
Hy guys i'm a starter and i can fly with noobships, can a join for you mates ? I want shot with ya, and i will damage well.
Old PvPers: Yes we need you, because you can do the task of the tackler for us only.
Noob: Thank you mate, you obliged me.
Old PvPers: Np, mate. Ding-Ding... Alarm , Enemy coming Hey little one, go to hangar and pick up one interceptor and we will destroying the attackers.
Noob: Sry i can't fly.
Old PVpers: All right, np. If you cant fly with inty, bring Ibis with civilian gatling.
|
Gara Al'Malik
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 11:25:00 -
[4018]
Originally by: Don Shadow
Show me ANY mmo where you need at least 1(ONE)YEAR of training to be able to use a ****ing armor or sword!
In wow you can level up pretty fast if you grind like hell. And then if you want to have the good stuff, you need to grind and grind and grind for ages. All in all EVE takes a lot less grinding and for grind haters, EVEs skill system is a god send.
|
Vito Parabellum
Fivrelde Corp
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 11:28:00 -
[4019]
Wow that's a lot of pages so no one will read this eh? :p
I'll add my small change anyway.
The silly notion that you will get more money from this is pretty ******ed as you remove one big incentive for resubbing after taking a break. So chances of me coming back after my next break are slim, but hope it works out for you guys anyway!
|
Counter Spy
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 11:30:00 -
[4020]
Originally by: Rashmika Clavain
Originally by: Counter Spy
This is all grind. And boring grind.
Show me ANY mmo where you don't have to grind for money and skill.... oh right, we're playing it, EVE-Online. Skill points here are not a grind; grinding xp is "kill x Orcs, kill y pointy hat wizards".
As for ISK, if I run missions then I do them in a group and they're quite fun. Not as much fun as PVP, but certainly not "This is all grind. And boring grind".
If you're going to quit, just **** off and do it... otherwise stop whining.
And how MMO need for 1 year for a simple weapon. And just one thing not at all.
And not i want not going to quit, better if i kill in PvP stupid players in game, like you. Because PvP not grind and it better amuses, if it is I hear idiotic players' screams on local. ;) |
|
Muschiu
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 11:33:00 -
[4021]
Originally by: Gara Al'Malik
Originally by: Don Shadow
Show me ANY mmo where you need at least 1(ONE)YEAR of training to be able to use a ****ing armor or sword!
In wow you can level up pretty fast if you grind like hell. And then if you want to have the good stuff, you need to grind and grind and grind for ages. All in all EVE takes a lot less grinding and for grind haters, EVEs skill system is a god send.
Eve just have GTCs...or hmmmm,...ETCs, like they are called now... |
Green Vipera
Caldari Romanian Space Explorer Tread Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 11:34:00 -
[4022]
Wow, alot of players quit :D. Can i have your stuff ?Just contract them to me, ill be still playing with 2 accounts(would be a shame of all your isk, to just go to waste) and i only play for 8 months :D...i had plans of ghost training my alt, until i can pvp with it, but no biggy with this news ill just have to pay it for 6 months.
I'm serious on this, can i have your stuff ?
Honestly what upsets me more is the speed nerf on Singularity, wtf am i going to do with my minmatar ?, go 1600 armor plates and make him a big fat pig ? |
Gara Al'Malik
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 11:36:00 -
[4023]
Originally by: Counter Spy
No, you said stupid things.
What a great argumentation.
Quote:
Not hard to find a qualified PvP corp with a starter ? LOL
Noob at HQ:
Hy guys i'm a starter and i can fly with noobships, can a join for you mates ? I want shot with ya, and i will damage well.
Old PvPers: Yes we need you, because you can do the task of the tackler for us only.
Noob: Thank you mate, you obliged me.
Old PvPers: Np, mate. Ding-Ding... Alarm , Enemy coming Hey little one, go to hangar and pick up one interceptor and we will destroying the attackers.
Noob: Sry i can't fly.
Old PVpers: All right, np. If you cant fly with inty, bring Ibis with civilian gatling.
Trying to grasp even one argument that you could actually win when all the other things you've said have been stomped? Again I'd like to point you to the previous posts. Read them, please. Well I know you wont so I'll repeat. You don't need to be able to fly an interceptor or any other t2 ship to be useful. You can tackle in other ships as well. It doesn't take long to train for basic ewar which is always nice to have in a gang. There are pvp corps that don't want noobs in. There are also plenty that like to have new members even if they are beginners, because even beginners can be useful in pvp. |
Counter Spy
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 11:37:00 -
[4024]
Originally by: Green Vipera I'm serious on this, can i have your stuff ?
All character who leave the game, pls send for him 1 noobship. He will be the king of noobship. He can use just this type of ships. MUHAHAHA |
Muschiu
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 11:39:00 -
[4025]
Originally by: Green Vipera Wow, alot of players quit :D. Can i have your stuff ?Just contract them to me, ill be still playing with 2 accounts(would be a shame of all your isk, to just go to waste) and i only play for 8 months :D...i had plans of ghost training my alt, until i can pvp with it, but no biggy with this news ill just have to pay it for 6 months.
I'm serious on this, can i have your stuff ?
Honestly what upsets me more is the speed nerf on Singularity, wtf am i going to do with my minmatar ?, go 1600 armor plates and make him a big fat pig ?
don't worry, soon you will be able to send that mini pilot of yours in a station bar and play some stupid games... |
Jinx Barker
GFB Scientific
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 11:48:00 -
[4026]
Pretty much disgraceful how CCP handled this whole thing:
1) 48 Hours Prior to action CCP announces the cancelation of the "bug" and "exploit" of "Ghost Training." 2) 24 Hours later, after the outcry, CCP backtracks and says, sorry, we meant it was a "feature", "sorry we appear to be lying through our teeth, we were just so busy.... we did not notice our own Player Guide said it was a feature, we are NOT LYING TO YOU!" 3) They close the original thread. 4) They edit the player guide, that reflected the fact that CCP lied through their teeth. 5) They make a new thread. 6) New thread goes "Stealth" - even though it is up to 140 Pages in less than 2 days. 7) They go ahead with the unpopular change, and kill the training of all inactive characters. 8) They announce the Quantum Rise expansion.
I say this was pretty well orchestrated - good job the new rulers of CCP, whoever you are. I hope that the extra cash you all get to collect will help you buy your new luxury condos at knock off prices in Reykjavik, since the economy went to hell, and you just found a way to do oh so much batter than any of your countrymen.
|
Grimnir
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 11:58:00 -
[4027]
Originally by: Don Shadow
Show me ANY mmo where you need at least 1(ONE)YEAR of training to be able to use a ****ing armor or sword!
Show my ANY mmo where you can use the biggest and best armor or swords without having to either pay for your account or spend any time at it. |
Kovit Niran
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 12:06:00 -
[4028]
Just a note to add my views to everyone else's I have two accounts my main which is 4 years old and this one about 2 and a half. I've recently become jaded with the game, missions are crap and boring, alliance 0.0 warfare is down to whichever alliance has the most titans wins and I have less and less incentive to actually log on and play anymore. Removing ghost training has helped me make the decision not to bother renewing my main that is currently ghost training or this pvp account which is still active. May I take this opportunity to thank you for enabling me to regain my life free from the distractions of Eve Onlne. |
Lord Fitz
Project Amargosa
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 12:09:00 -
[4029]
Originally by: Jinx Barker 7) They go ahead with the unpopular change, and kill the training of all inactive characters.
And today the server gets stuck in a 'starting up' loop post downtime. Which wouldn't at all have to do with the extra buggy code they introduced yesterday now would it ? |
Lord Fitz
Project Amargosa
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 12:10:00 -
[4030]
Edited by: Lord Fitz on 16/10/2008 12:10:21
Originally by: Grimnir
Originally by: Don Shadow
Show me ANY mmo where you need at least 1(ONE)YEAR of training to be able to use a ****ing armor or sword!
Show my ANY mmo where you can use the biggest and best armor or swords without having to either pay for your account or spend any time at it.
Certainly not Eve. Even ghost trainers had to spend time and money. |
|
Counter Spy
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 12:10:00 -
[4031]
Originally by: Jinx Barker Pretty much disgraceful how CCP handled this whole thing:
1) 48 Hours Prior to action CCP announces the cancelation of the "bug" and "exploit" of "Ghost Training." 2) 24 Hours later, after the outcry, CCP backtracks and says, sorry, we meant it was a "feature", "sorry we appear to be lying through our teeth, we were just so busy.... we did not notice our own Player Guide said it was a feature, we are NOT LYING TO YOU!" 3) They close the original thread. 4) They edit the player guide, that reflected the fact that CCP lied through their teeth. 5) They make a new thread. 6) New thread goes "Stealth" - even though it is up to 140 Pages in less than 2 days. 7) They go ahead with the unpopular change, and kill the training of all inactive characters. 8) They announce the Quantum Rise expansion.
I say this was pretty well orchestrated - good job the new rulers of CCP, whoever you are. I hope that the extra cash you all get to collect will help you buy your new luxury condos at knock off prices in Reykjavik, since the economy went to hell, and you just found a way to do oh so much batter than any of your countrymen.
Yes, truth. And another one >>>
"The backbone of EVE's vibrant economy, industrial ships are being rebalanced and optimized to better suit the needs of haulers and industrialists, including the latest edition to the fleet, a massive capital industrial ship dubbed the Orca."
Economy patch for chinese isk farmers. Oh yeah, we need more stupid things. Maybe a feature will be fine like against station huggin or AFK script miners or bugged sentrys when the ship docked and aggro timer ended but sentry starting shot again. Oh not this is important things not just unintended feature. |
Garia666
Amarr T.H.U.G L.I.F.E White Core
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 12:13:00 -
[4032]
Its probably posted a 100 times already but the ghost training isnt an unintended feature. Its was even added in the online eve manual.
I have realy no clue of who CCP t0rfifrans is. but he is deff not well informed. Altough personaly i have no opinion on the content of this blog. i do on the way how it is communicated to the community..
And yes
Quote: Does that mean that CCP is a greedy money chewing monster that just loves nerfing things?
I do think CCP does this entirely for the money.
|
DeODokktor
Dark Templars The Fonz Presidium
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 12:14:00 -
[4033]
Originally by: Grimnir
Originally by: Don Shadow
Show me ANY mmo where you need at least 1(ONE)YEAR of training to be able to use a ****ing armor or sword!
Show my ANY mmo where you can use the biggest and best armor or swords without having to either pay for your account or spend any time at it.
The argument is Moot, someone who's spent 3 years paying for an account to have it go inactive to train something (I dont like ghost training in many ways so dont take it as a sign of support for it) really shouldnt be penalized..
The only "fair" point to this all is that it will make some of the old uber-sp chars die gracefully now. CCP have yet to list a reason why they did this, I am waiting.
They did tell us a few (and I must really say this) CRAPPY spins regarding "bugs" and "managed cost" and "database cost"..
ETC's are automated so I dont think paperwork has to be managed per-char but if they want to tell me EVERY transaction is reviewed by staff (even ETC ones) then feel free.
Bugs - uhhh, lets just not go there
As for the database cost.. I guess you need to think of it this way, nothing in the database is changing now! Some processes however have MORE code and more checking to do because of this change.. In essence, removing the simple time*lpgainrate and replacing it with a more complicated comparision feature.
The upshot is (for those of us who use ETC's) is that if our account lapses and we spend a week looking for codes, our skills may have potentially kept going..
CCP are PROBABLY seeing all of the accounts getting dropped and assuming it's because people want to ghost train, the reality is probably much more different in that people are just fed up paying for extra chars! |
Korvin
Gallente VooDoo Technologies
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 12:15:00 -
[4034]
Originally by: Lord Fitz
Originally by: Jinx Barker 7) They go ahead with the unpopular change, and kill the training of all inactive characters.
And today the server gets stuck in a 'starting up' loop post downtime. Which wouldn't at all have to do with the extra buggy code they introduced yesterday now would it ?
And btw CCP, why dont you extend subscribtion time, with the time we loose on extra extended DT we allways have. Maybe thats aslo SO fare, as removing ghost trining? |
Lockheed19
Gallente Eve Defence Force Resurgency
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 12:15:00 -
[4035]
If the ability to only train when your subscription is current was started from the outset all those years ago, then sure, it makes perfect sense financially.
But using it an USP and all those other very valid and more salient points highlighted by other posters rendeers this completely botched.
The horse well and truly bolted CCP, and it's far too far away for you to bring it back now.
At the very least this is an utter PR disaster. You're not using the same PR and economists as your banking systems....are you? |
Lana Ground
Caldari Galactic Accord State Navy Academy Accord Corporate Enterprise Syndicate
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 12:17:00 -
[4036]
Originally by: Korvin
Originally by: Lord Fitz
Originally by: Jinx Barker 7) They go ahead with the unpopular change, and kill the training of all inactive characters.
And today the server gets stuck in a 'starting up' loop post downtime. Which wouldn't at all have to do with the extra buggy code they introduced yesterday now would it ?
And btw CCP, why dont you extend subscribtion time, with the time we loose on extra extended DT we allways have. Maybe thats aslo SO fare, as removing ghost trining?
yea i suggested that yesterday somewhere in this thread lol |
Lana Ground
Caldari Galactic Accord State Navy Academy Accord Corporate Enterprise Syndicate
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 12:18:00 -
[4037]
Edited by: Lana Ground on 16/10/2008 12:18:26 Damn forum *removed double post* |
Lord Fitz
Project Amargosa
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 12:18:00 -
[4038]
Originally by: Garia666 Its probably posted a 100 times already but the ghost training isnt an unintended feature. Its was even added in the online eve manual.
I have realy no clue of who CCP t0rfifrans is. but he is deff not well informed. Altough personaly i have no opinion on the content of this blog. i do on the way how it is communicated to the community..
And yes
Quote: Does that mean that CCP is a greedy money chewing monster that just loves nerfing things?
I do think CCP does this entirely for the money.
That's the worst part for me, not that they're doing it for extra money, but because they're doing it for extra money but will end up with less. If I thought they would actually make money from it, at least someone, somewhere would benefit from it. |
Artmedis Valben
Gallente Lobster of Babel
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 12:19:00 -
[4039]
So this means if one of my subscriptions runs out And I pay for it as soon as I notice, my training gets halted?
Really annoying, let ghost training continue for 24 or 48 hours after a subscription expires, and you wont bug paying customers as much.
Otherwise I think is a good change, even if this used to be a feature of the game. However with the current exchange rate and all your income in Euros and USD, and a large portion of your expenses in Icelandic Kronas, I guess you could weather a temporary surge in ghost training.
|
NupetietVer
Neuro Cartographic Services
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 12:20:00 -
[4040]
"Todays downtime extended for 20 minutes due to startup problems, Tranquility will be online at 12:20 GMT"
Gee, I paid for a 60 day "Game Time Code" and now CCP dictates what I can do with that time, oh wait, its "Electronic Time Code" now so they can avoid potential product misrepresentation, nice job CCP at covering that up. Along with Power of 2 just before Ghost Training nerf and the ninja-edits, you really do seem concerned with the player base. |
|
Lana Ground
Caldari Galactic Accord State Navy Academy Accord Corporate Enterprise Syndicate
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 12:23:00 -
[4041]
looks like CCP have opened a whole can of worms this time |
Midas Man
Caldari Dzark Asylum
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 12:23:00 -
[4042]
Originally by: Grimnir
Originally by: Don Shadow
Show me ANY mmo where you need at least 1(ONE)YEAR of training to be able to use a ****ing armor or sword!
Show my ANY mmo where you can use the biggest and best armor or swords without having to either pay for your account or spend any time at it.
You sir have a good point there isn't 1 and that includes eve. You could have(Theoretically) ghost trained for 5 year (not that there is a skill that would last that long) but it aint much use on an inactive account. Now how do i use that uber 5 year skill...Oh yeah i need to sub (That is PAY if you don't get it).
Do you thik WOW would be so popular if people were still grinding for there first purple Item from doing the same raid for 3 years...No.
Now if you want to fly a Titan well you need to put about 3 years skill training in and once your in a Titan your stuck in it. Only option is to train solely for a titan (as all other skills will become void) but thats a hell of a boring 3 years till your flying it. |
Counter Spy
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 12:24:00 -
[4043]
Originally by: Grimnir
Originally by: Don Shadow
Show me ANY mmo where you need at least 1(ONE)YEAR of training to be able to use a ****ing armor or sword!
Show my ANY mmo where you can use the biggest and best armor or swords without having to either pay for your account or spend any time at it.
Ohohoho. You can maximize the skills in EVE below 1 year if you pay ? Which MMO need 20 year for all skill maximizing when the customer pay for service ?
Oh i see, you will say it: But EVE another MMO, this is the the best MMO and here in game should be train 20 years long. No-no-no. Another MMO not hold 18x training time for lvl of one skill. Big difference.
And another thing you say no pay = no play isn't ?
If someone not playing, but paying why ticking the account clock ? The customer pay for nothing when he is not online ? |
freddy madball
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 12:31:00 -
[4044]
Originally by: Grimnir
Originally by: Don Shadow
Show me ANY mmo where you need at least 1(ONE)YEAR of training to be able to use a ****ing armor or sword!
Show my ANY mmo where you can use the biggest and best armor or swords without having to either pay for your account or spend any time at it.
i think the point he was trying to make is, it doesnt take a year to get to some of the nice toys in other mmo's. and while we dont have a skill grind per say, we sure as heck have lots of other grinds, which do require us to actively play the game. well unless of course you resort to selling gtc's all the time. grind for standings, grind for ish, grind for minerals ect, grind so you can afford to get into that nice ship you are training too, which insurance barely covers.. not to mention modules.
and in most other mmo's it takes less time to get to that point considerably then it does to get in place in eve. |
Korvin
Gallente VooDoo Technologies
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 12:32:00 -
[4045]
for those, who post here and a topic before... be a man, cancel you subscriptions
p.s. you all addcted anyway, so stfu and suffer |
Midas Man
Caldari Dzark Asylum
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 12:34:00 -
[4046]
Originally by: Lana Ground Edited by: Lana Ground on 16/10/2008 12:18:26 Damn forum *removed double post*
Just edit you post to read
Hi Players
We are about to stop Ghost Training
Regards
CCP Inc - (Counter Competent Programing Inc)
It would have soon disappeared lol |
Zinnn
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 12:37:00 -
[4047]
http://www.eve-online.com/pressreleases/default.asp?pressReleaseID=48
Just another way to make their crappy decision seem OK.
"ok here's how it is. People are upset. Why don't we shove in a line saying "and more goodies later to be announced" .. Yeah that sounds good, let's do that!"
Meanwhile, all they're talking about is medals and stuff for FW. On another note, the DB maintenance took 20 minutes longer than anticipated. Let me ask this.. Are they serious about how people shadow ghosting is affecting their database? I've never seen so many database cleanups within a day. I think this is clear evidence that they're cleaning up after all those people quit their accounts - welcome to the world of NEVER COMING BACK... And I don't care, cause if this goes down there's still jumpgate evolution, a game I must admit looks better than eve online... I really do see it that way. Maybe CCP can try to copycat jumpgate evolution and get a head start on jumpgate. QUICK! SOMEONE FROM CCP SIGN UP FOR THE BETA!!! .... lol seriously it looks like jumpgate is in direct competition with CCP. You have other options. Someone has to send a message to CCP. If you want to, there's another space sim. |
Gara Al'Malik
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 12:38:00 -
[4048]
Originally by: Counter Spy
Ohohoho. You can maximize the skills in EVE below 1 year if you pay ? Which MMO need 20 year for all skill maximizing when the customer pay for service ?
Maximizing all skills in for example wow would take an insane amount of grinding because of the class system. You would need to have a level 80 char in each class. You could probably do it in less than 20 years, but it would take many many hours of grinding and break your sanity. I'd say it's about as much out of reach as in eve.
|
Counter Spy
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 12:42:00 -
[4049]
Edited by: Counter Spy on 16/10/2008 12:45:42
Originally by: Gara Al'Malik
Originally by: Counter Spy
Ohohoho. You can maximize the skills in EVE below 1 year if you pay ? Which MMO need 20 year for all skill maximizing when the customer pay for service ?
Maximizing all skills in for example wow would take an insane amount of grinding because of the class system. You would need to have a level 80 char in each class. You could probably do it in less than 20 years, but it would take many many hours of grinding and break your sanity. I'd say it's about as much out of reach as in eve.
Hey dont cut my answer or answer it for all line.
Ohohoho. You can maximize the skills in EVE below 1 year if you pay ? Which MMO need 20 year for all skill maximizing when the customer pay for service ?
Oh i see, you will say it: But EVE another MMO, this is the the best MMO and here in game should be train 20 years long. No-no-no. Another MMO not hold 18x training time for lvl of one skill. Big difference.
And another thing you say no pay = no play isn't ?
If someone not playing, but paying why ticking the account clock ? The customer pay for nothing when he is not online ?
And another one your answer wrong again. You can maximize all characters in another game below 5 years if you want. But here not. Because the CCP want more money as another provider. 1 skill for three months lol. |
Midas Man
Caldari Dzark Asylum
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 12:43:00 -
[4050]
Originally by: Korvin for those, who post here and a topic before... be a man, cancel you subscriptions
p.s. you all addcted anyway, so stfu and suffer
Unfortunately i dont subscibe I use GTC which i buy for ISK, Which is a pity because most of my accounts are paid up for 1 year or more.
I am unable to vote with my wallet.
I could delete my characters and ask them to remove my account but they've had my money so its a no vote on that one.
But i can leave the character's there and be safe in the knowledge that is ****ing up CCP's wonderful DB. I will sleep happier knowing that my offline character is generating so much Lag for those that are online |
|
Gara Al'Malik
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 12:43:00 -
[4051]
Originally by: freddy madball
i think the point he was trying to make is, it doesnt take a year to get to some of the nice toys in other mmo's. and while we dont have a skill grind per say, we sure as heck have lots of other grinds, which do require us to actively play the game. well unless of course you resort to selling gtc's all the time. grind for standings, grind for ish, grind for minerals ect, grind so you can afford to get into that nice ship you are training too, which insurance barely covers.. not to mention modules.
and in most other mmo's it takes less time to get to that point considerably then it does to get in place in eve.
Start trading. Then there is no need to grind for isk, minerals or standings and you can get rich with market pvp. That is one thing that I love about eve, since I'm not a big fan of grinding either. |
Chani Fedaykin
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 12:45:00 -
[4052]
Edited by: Chani Fedaykin on 16/10/2008 12:46:57
Originally by: Gara Al'Malik Maximizing all skills in for example wow would take an insane amount of grinding because of the class system. You would need to have a level 80 char in each class. You could probably do it in less than 20 years, but it would take many many hours of grinding and break your sanity. I'd say it's about as much out of reach as in eve.
i happen to know at least two people that have a lvl 80 char in wow for each class ... and at least good or even high end geared. for sure it takes a huge investment of time, but its not compareable to 20 years :P ... oh and btw: they are still quite sane (if you dont consider their addiction to wow ofc)
edit: spelling :P |
Gara Al'Malik
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 12:48:00 -
[4053]
Edited by: Gara Al''Malik on 16/10/2008 12:50:27
Originally by: Chani Fedaykin
i happen to know at least to people that have a lvl 80 char in wow for each class ... and at least good or even high end geared. for sure it takes a huge investment of time, but its not compareable to 20 years :P ... oh and btw: they are still quite sane (if you dont consider their addiction to wow ofc)
Now that's some heavy grinding. I stand corrected. It seems that you actually can survive the boredom with your mental health intact. I made it only to level 43 with a single character before the endless grinding got me. |
Shar Tegral
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 12:50:00 -
[4054]
Originally by: Gara Al'Malik Start trading. Then there is no need to grind for isk, minerals or standings and you can get rich with market pvp. That is one thing that I love about eve, since I'm not a big fan of grinding either.
This. BTW if you look to the left you will find the Advertised Features and the Player Guide are kept very separate. One is a list of all the things CCP promises to provide you. The other is the list of things that are possible in the game. That is while still possible. Here ends today's lesson on using bullshit for debates. Tomorrow's lesson - "those that pay get to vote; those that don't, who f-ing cares." |
Benedic
The Aftermath
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 12:50:00 -
[4055]
At least 1/3rd of the sp across my 7 accounts totaling 300m sp was gained ghost training. Finally a change that benefits old players with tons of ISK rather than poor new ones.
I will probably consolidate my active accounts though, there's really no point in paying twice as much for chars with mirrored skills.
|
Counter Spy
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 12:52:00 -
[4056]
Originally by: Gara Al'Malik blabla
Where is your answer i can't heard.
"no pay = no play isn't ?
If someone not playing, but paying why ticking the account clock ? The customer pay for nothing when he is not online ?"
Or coming again the evasion ? |
Ronin Pilgrim
Caldari Hunters Imperiale
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 12:57:00 -
[4057]
Edited by: Ronin Pilgrim on 16/10/2008 12:57:50 I like this update, and I agree with CCP. Thanks CCP!
I would like to say, on the record, goodbye to all the cry babies that are bleeding over not being able to play the game without paying. DUIR!
-Ronin
|
Shar Tegral
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 12:59:00 -
[4058]
Originally by: Counter Spy Isiam using an alt to post drivel
So far you've used 3 different toons to post on this board. Just how many accounts are you running and how badly did killing ghost training hurt your toon farming activities? That's besides the point I guess, your question; Originally by: Counter Spy If someone not playing, but paying why ticking the account clock ? The customer pay for nothing when he is not online ?
CCP productions sells to you the right to connect to their virtual servers for roughly 23 hours per day, 7 days per week, for the monthly time cycle you have purchased. (Barring maintenance and upgrade time like any standard provider.) CCP can not, legally, invade your privacy to find out why you did not log in. Thus CCP can not refund you time where you felt like "getting laid" instead of "playing Eve". (In your case that might be misleading though). All CCP can do is honor its side of its to make the servers available. If you do not partake of that opportunity, your legal right to decide for whatever reasons you have. |
Brother Welcome
Amarr Suddenly Ninjas
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 13:01:00 -
[4059]
Reposting here to play along with damage control.
In every MMO you hit points you want to quit. Ghost-skilling gave you an incentive to come back afterwards.
So while the accounts that aren't running now at 50% might balance against those that now must run at 100%, I believe that the feature change will be felt in the long term in the form of fewer players returning after hitting a quit point.
I'm disappointed by this because I know my next quit point will be my last, and my current GTC expires in 40 days. You can't haz my stuff.
I urge CCP to reconsider turning off this feature.
-vk |
Shar Tegral
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 13:03:00 -
[4060]
Originally by: Shar Tegral If you do not partake of that opportunity, your legal right to decide for whatever reasons you have.
Here's a test you can try out if you don't live with your parents. Go away for a month. When you come back please tell us what your landlord said about not paying him the rent since you weren't there. More importantly, go ahead... move all your stuff into storage somewhere and try not being at your apartment for a month and not paying rent. Can you wonder what your landlord will say then? The same damn thing. |
|
Gara Al'Malik
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 13:03:00 -
[4061]
Originally by: Counter Spy
Originally by: Gara Al'Malik blabla
Where is your answer i can't heard.
"no pay = no play isn't ?
If someone not playing, but paying why ticking the account clock ? The customer pay for nothing when he is not online ?"
Or coming again the evasion ?
I'm not sure I understand what you mean. Do you want my opinion about the payment system of EVE? OK, sure. Here it is: it's the same as with all mmorpgs. You pay for the possibility to play as much as you want (except down times of course) for some duration. If you don't pay, you don't play. I as a customer am not against the possibility of paying for the actual time spent online, but I guess that wouldn't be a good idea from the service providers point of view since to the best of my knowledge no mmorpgs have that system. |
Midas Man
Caldari Dzark Asylum
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 13:09:00 -
[4062]
Originally by: Shar Tegral Here's a test you can try out if you don't live with your parents. Go away for a month. When you come back please tell us what your landlord said about not paying him the rent since you weren't there.
More importantly, go ahead... move all your stuff into storage somewhere and try not being at your apartment for a month and not paying rent.
Can you wonder what your landlord will say then?
The same damn thing.[/justify]
Ok let bring in pointless parallels
Say you were renting a fully furnished flat.
You look over the list of funishings and see TV.
You come home from work one day and your Landlord has been in and left a note saying. Im sorry we left the TV by mistake.
You run off to find your furnishing list and see a line has been added next to TV saying "Landlord retains the right to revoke this option at any time"
Thats what CCP have done.
Most people are not against removing Ghost training its the way in which they have conducted it.
most peoples opinion is that its another screw up from CCP, and another attempt at veiling it most people including yourself have seen this over and over. and by the looks of it most people patince is running thin. |
Kurt Gergard
Caldari Custodes Mandati Imperii
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 13:12:00 -
[4063]
Edited by: Kurt Gergard on 16/10/2008 13:13:29
Originally by: Shar Tegral
Originally by: Shar Tegral If you do not partake of that opportunity, your legal right to decide for whatever reasons you have.
Here's a test you can try out if you don't live with your parents. Go away for a month. When you come back please tell us what your landlord said about not paying him the rent since you weren't there. More importantly, go ahead... move all your stuff into storage somewhere and try not being at your apartment for a month and not paying rent. Can you wonder what your landlord will say then? The same damn thing.
I don't pay my landlord during summer holidays when i am not living in the flat that i rent from him. And he is fine with that. EDIT: It is part of an agreement that i have with him. Unfortunatly there is no agreement with ccp apart form that ccp in there mercy allows us to use their game. |
Counter Spy
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 13:14:00 -
[4064]
Originally by: Shar Tegral If someone not playing, but paying why ticking the account clock ? The customer pay for nothing when he is not online ?
CCP productions sells to you the right to connect to their virtual servers for roughly 23 hours per day, 7 days per week, for the monthly time cycle you have purchased. (Barring maintenance and upgrade time like any standard provider.)
Non-no-no this is lying. If anyone not playing, why could be pay for servers for another one ? And lying because the servers always stand 1 hours or more all days, and the costumers pay for it, when not playing, this is the maintaince costs. And another thing the subscribers buy 30 days, but if you bought one 30 days sub at februar 26 why goes end the subs at marc 25 ? The 30 days long months subs goes to end at 29 days and we know another CCP tricks. So ,you kidding me. This thing same thing like the ghost training.
|
Lady Godgifu
Gallente The Scope
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 13:18:00 -
[4065]
Well for me this is a money grab pure and simple, I for one like the idea of being able to take a break from Eve and being able to set a long skill and then come back and be in the mood to play Eve.
If I actually played continuously then I'd get bored pretty fast.
You see I pay with isk, so if I take a break I can set a long skill and play something else, when I come back I have to make sure I have enough isk for a gtc. Now if I continually play, I'm not going to be in the mood to grind out isk continuously to pay for the gtc's.
I got 3 accounts and really can't see a point in resubbing any of them when their subs run out. This game isnÆt that good to be going through all that hassle when you just want to have fun.
This is the only mmo I've bothered to dabble in, I'm mainly an fps gamer.
I remember earlier this year Virgin Media went against Net Neutrality and we saw they started throttling loads of playerÆs bandwidth; they were basically striking up deals with content providers to deliver their content faster and make content delivery into a cash cow, which was totally wrong. Personally I'm not going to buy any virgin services as a result.
This decision by CCP is basically forcing consumers to pay more by changing the rules which we accepted when we started playing. It's not kosher to change the rules in mid game. And I can't accept that from a games company. I left another game once when they introduced micropayment options that changed the playing field and obviously the game.
While one accepts the fact that CCP is indeed a company, all companies have a goodwill valuation, removing things like this depreciate that goodwill.
Removing 30d and 90d gtcÆs reduced players flexibility, they could have increased prices and introduced a 60d gtc. But for statistical and financial reasons they figured removing them would bring in more money, which of course is exactly why they are removing ôghost trainingö
This doesnÆt bring any benefits to the consumer, it only serves to diminish trust in your investment in the game.
|
Gara Al'Malik
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 13:23:00 -
[4066]
Originally by: Counter Spy
Originally by: Shar Tegral If someone not playing, but paying why ticking the account clock ? The customer pay for nothing when he is not online ?
CCP productions sells to you the right to connect to their virtual servers for roughly 23 hours per day, 7 days per week, for the monthly time cycle you have purchased. (Barring maintenance and upgrade time like any standard provider.)
Non-no-no this is lying. If anyone not playing, why could be pay for servers for another one ? And lying because the servers always stand 1 hours or more all days, and the costumers pay for it, when not playing, this is the maintaince costs.
Dude, you need to start reading the posts you are replying to. |
Counter Spy
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 13:25:00 -
[4067]
Edited by: Counter Spy on 16/10/2008 13:29:55
Originally by: Gara Al'Malik
Originally by: Counter Spy
Originally by: Shar Tegral If someone not playing, but paying why ticking the account clock ? The customer pay for nothing when he is not online ?
CCP productions sells to you the right to connect to their virtual servers for roughly 23 hours per day, 7 days per week, for the monthly time cycle you have purchased. (Barring maintenance and upgrade time like any standard provider.)
Non-no-no this is lying. If anyone not playing, why could be pay for servers for another one ? And lying because the servers always stand 1 hours or more all days, and the costumers pay for it, when not playing, this is the maintaince costs.
Dude, you need to start reading the posts you are replying to.
Sry dude but i coldn't.Because i not read your another CCP alt of idiotism . ;)
The truth is painful, but still truth.
Oh and other word. Ghost training wrong for CCP but what about the ghost research,industrial jobs and more ? It is fine because he may not be with it the learning time of the characters to manipulate ? |
Sironus
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 13:31:00 -
[4068]
Well, I quit maybe two or three times a year... Then, when I get bored enough again, I log in to try out whatever new ships I ghost-trained.
Next time I get bored enough to sign up again, I won't have any new stuff waiting for me to fly.
...I won't be coming back again. I cancelled last night. That's that. Game over. |
Shar Tegral
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 13:32:00 -
[4069]
Originally by: Midas Man You run off to find your furnishing list and see a line has been added next to TV saying "Landlord retains the right to revoke this option at any time"
Difference between Features and Guide.In CCP's case, the tv was left there. Accident, small present, who cares. You then decided to go blaring it all hours of the night and abusing a privilege that was not yours... the landlord took the tv. Now, you have the right to be ****ed off if the landlord didn't tell you he was going into your flat. However every landlord reserves the right to enter for work, modification, and/or recovery of his property. Of course if you like you can litigate the matter or, if you don't have any leg to stand on, you can stand outside your flat screaming and whining about how the world has done you wrong and woah's me. Please, continue to cry your big alligator tears about budget and life and constraints. Saves me going to the threatres and paying Hollywood for a bullshit sob story. But the truth is that the good players got hurt not by what CCP did, or even how they did it, but by the fact that other players defaced a game mechanic from rampant abuse. I do alot of api auditing for the Eve equivalent of "wall street". I see some of the abuse CCP is talking about on a regular basis. It is the reason I brought the matter up to the CSM board back in June. Responsible adults know that if something is free but being sucked dry, it disappears. Children only know, I had it, it is gone, <wail>. Simple really. Much like yourself. |
Gara Al'Malik
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 13:38:00 -
[4070]
Originally by: Sironus Well, I quit maybe two or three times a year... Then, when I get bored enough again, I log in to try out whatever new ships I ghost-trained.
Next time I get bored enough to sign up again, I won't have any new stuff waiting for me to fly.
...I won't be coming back again. I cancelled last night. That's that. Game over.
Can I have your stuff? Oh you canceled already. Well if you happen to make a come back send me your stuff before you cancel again. |
|
Midas Man
Caldari Dzark Asylum
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 13:44:00 -
[4071]
Originally by: Shar Tegral
Simple really. Much like yourself.[/justify]
And your trying to call me a child.
Lets evaluate
who started the name calling.
And its usually you that flames people for bring real life analogies into the game.
You sir are a hypoCRIT (just to equate it to Game terminology)
oh and by the way Copy and Pasting intullectual information from Wiki doesn't make you smart.
Much love |
Hun Jakuza
Naughty By Nature
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 13:47:00 -
[4072]
Oh no another two CCP alt like Gara Al'Malik and Shar Tegral
Hey guys go work for fixing bug, dont waste time here. I see, work stinky but money is good. Like a Jidish who always say it, "can i have your stuff i don't like the work."
Hey dudes your bad thinking will be ruin the EVE. And you guys will be stay alone in the game, but that's will just a black cat for 14.99$
|
Gara Al'Malik
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 13:54:00 -
[4073]
Originally by: Hun Jakuza Oh no another two CCP alt like Gara Al'Malik and Shar Tegral
The tinfoil brigade strikes again! |
Shar Tegral
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 13:54:00 -
[4074]
Originally by: Midas Man oh and by the way Copy and Pasting intullectual information from Wiki doesn't make you smart.
It appears reading is not your strong suit. The link did not go to any Wiki. Self pwnzor 4tl. Originally by: Hun Jakuza Oh no another two CCP alt like Gara Al'Malik and Shar Tegral
<snip>
Hey dudes your bad thinking will be ruin the EVE. And you guys will be stay alone in the game, but that's will just a black cat for 14.99$
Yes, you found me out. Somehow for 6 years I've hidden the fact that I work for CCP. Damn, you are such a genius to see through my clever disguise. Might I ask, what part of Eve have you improved? I know what aspects I've had a hand in improving.. and the latest one is the one making you cry. Please, whine/troll on, you only make me prouder of the fact that I had a hand in it. Maybe I will apply to CCP... when hell freezes over of course but thanks for insulting CCP that way! |
3PA
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 13:55:00 -
[4075]
Finally this "injustice" will be fixed. For me that will mean two alts down, more ISK grinding, less fun - and most probably quit. and no, you can't have my stuff because it all goes to the people spending $$$ on GTCs and selling them. so much for in-game balance. |
Rethie
Caldari
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 13:57:00 -
[4076]
When reading up before subscription, considering all my cost of living etc, the thing that eventually made me sub was inactive training, for the fact of real life commitments, at least if I could not sub, I could come back and with some pre planning, have advanced a level on something.
-1 when it runs out
and no you cant have my stuff or isk, it can just die with me |
DJ Geist
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 14:01:00 -
[4077]
I can't believe after this many responses, varied complaints, and suggested compromises CCP has offered NO response besides the initial statement and the "bug not feature" follow up. This is scandalous and irresponsible to your player base. |
Shar Tegral
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 14:01:00 -
[4078]
Originally by: Rethie When reading up before subscription, considering all my cost of living etc, the thing that eventually made me sub was inactive training, for the fact of real life commitments, at least if I could not sub, I could come back and with some pre planning, have advanced a level on something.
As a parent of someone who has their majority (which I lose sleep at night about!) I can only say that I'm glad CCP has encouraged you to be more insightful about what luxuries you spend your meager income on. After all, you should be discouraged from making bad fiscal choices that overextend you or your available time. Bully for you mate, welcome to the adult club.
|
Gara Al'Malik
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 14:05:00 -
[4079]
Originally by: Rethie
-1 when it runs out and no you cant have my stuff or isk, it can just die with me
Originally by: 3PA and no, you can't have my stuff because it all goes to the people spending $$$ on GTCs and selling them. so much for in-game balance.
Just one cruiser? I know you're feeling all warm and fuzzy inside and want to be nice to people. |
Hun Jakuza
Naughty By Nature
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 14:07:00 -
[4080]
Originally by: Shar Tegral
Originally by: Rethie When reading up before subscription, considering all my cost of living etc, the thing that eventually made me sub was inactive training, for the fact of real life commitments, at least if I could not sub, I could come back and with some pre planning, have advanced a level on something.
As a parent of someone who has their majority (which I lose sleep at night about!) I can only say that I'm glad CCP has encouraged you to be more insightful about what luxuries you spend your meager income on. After all, you should be discouraged from making bad fiscal choices that overextend you or your available time. Bully for you mate, welcome to the adult club.
No, we hate the gaylentes, so we dont go to adult club. :D |
|
Kethot
Ordo Drakonis Curatores Veritatis Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 14:16:00 -
[4081]
This decision is kinda stupid. This will just lead to closing accounts obviously and if you think people will pay more regularly without ghost learning you are wrong. I dont like a month of training/time sink and I dislike paying for it even more. |
Nate D
Hell's Rejects
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 14:17:00 -
[4082]
Originally by: Shar Tegral
Originally by: Rethie When reading up before subscription, considering all my cost of living etc, the thing that eventually made me sub was inactive training, for the fact of real life commitments, at least if I could not sub, I could come back and with some pre planning, have advanced a level on something.
As a parent of someone who has their majority (which I lose sleep at night about!) I can only say that I'm glad CCP has encouraged you to be more insightful about what luxuries you spend your meager income on. After all, you should be discouraged from making bad fiscal choices that overextend you or your available time. Bully for you mate, welcome to the adult club.
Wow Shar... don't be so shallow. I manage my income too and sometimes find it difficult to justify paying for EVE. I also enjoy coming back to a new lvl 5 skill after taking a break. Going on 5 years of subscribing to EVE I've only taken advantage of this once but for CCP to remove this feature is ridiculous. They will lose more than they'll gain. |
Shar Tegral
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 14:18:00 -
[4083]
Originally by: Hun Jakuza No, we hate the gaylentes, so we dont go to adult club. :D
Where are all the good men?They already have boyfriends!For a girl the are real slim pickings when looking for a man with class, cleanliness, and intelligence. So I'm happy them gaylentes are around. (Female toon, I'm not female.)
|
Par'Gellen
Tres Hombres
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 14:24:00 -
[4084]
Edited by: Par''Gellen on 16/10/2008 14:25:56 This is good news. Long overdue. Thanks!
In short, if you want to play you have to pay. I like this concept. |
Grismar
Gallente The Establishment
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 14:24:00 -
[4085]
After 135 pages of posts, how can I -not- post :p
I can only agree with the decision to fix it in the first place, it's a stupid feature and only supports RMT character farming. But I think it's just plain stupid to have waited this long.
Right now, you leave people no other choice than believing that the only reason you left it in was to inflate the number of people that had active accounts from time to time, to improve the image of the corporation with investors and for purposes of promotion.
A serious gaffe either way and in the very best case a case of laziness. In the worst case, you're greedy capitalists that are only after our money and you still don't have to worry. After all, we buy the games of other greedy capitalists that are only after our money too. I'm going to go with 'lazy' and 'unwise' all the same. |
Shar Tegral
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 14:27:00 -
[4086]
Originally by: Grismar I can only agree with the decision to fix it in the first place, it's a stupid feature and only supports RMT character farming. But I think it's just plain stupid to have waited this long.
<snip>
After all, we buy the games of other greedy capitalists that are only after our money too. I'm going to go with 'lazy' and 'unwise' all the same.
This. Nice to see one of the good ones still around as well. I still use explorer regularly mate. |
Skeo
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 14:45:00 -
[4087]
After reading t0rfifrans blog I have several things to say:
1st: If this truly was a "bug", as CCP said it was, why on earth did it take them 5 years to fix? This "bug" has been in your game for so long now that is is considered a "feature". You have now removed the game of one of it's features.
In addition, if it truly was a "bug", it goes to show you how poorly CCP manages to fix it's bugs. It apparently has 5 years worth of bugs to fix.
2nd: If CCP wants all of it's players to be subscribed at once while training, expect to see a large increase of online players. At the moment, CCP can barely "manage" the number of people online at any given time. Please tell me how you plan to handle all of the players, CCP.
3rd: This feature does not ruin the balance of the game. While playing, you earn more ISK and enjoy playing the game (whether it's PVP, PVE, or otherwise). While unsubscribed, you do not get any of this, save for being up to date skill-wise. (Eg: You've finished cruiser V after a month hiatus, but you don't have the ISK to buy a HAC because you haven't been playing).
This feature is what has kept me drawn to the game after taking a break for exams, work, etc. I feel that if I were to take a break again, I would have no motivation to return to the game.
Also may I add that I do not have any alts, this is my only character, and I am not trying to spam the thread as some people are. This is my opinion and I am seriously considering making my next "break" an indefinite one. |
Apeshit
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 14:52:00 -
[4088]
This new change is terrible. If I'm away from the game at any point it's been great knowing that a new skill/ship is ready to come back to. Definately been a major consideration whether I resub or not.
CCP you suk badly.
|
Rashmika Clavain
Gallente Revelation Space
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 14:55:00 -
[4089]
Originally by: Gara Al'Malik
Originally by: Sironus Well, I quit maybe two or three times a year... Then, when I get bored enough again, I log in to try out whatever new ships I ghost-trained.
Next time I get bored enough to sign up again, I won't have any new stuff waiting for me to fly.
...I won't be coming back again. I cancelled last night. That's that. Game over.
Can I have your stuff? Oh you canceled already. Well if you happen to make a come back send me your stuff before you cancel again.
...and don't forget to set a long skill training just in case you decide to come back
/runs
|
Midas Man
Caldari Dzark Asylum
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 14:56:00 -
[4090]
Originally by: Shar Tegral [justify] Originally by: Midas Man oh and by the way Copy and Pasting intullectual information from Wiki doesn't make you smart.
It appears reading is not your strong suit. The link did not go to any Wiki.
Self pwnzor 4tl.
erm and where did i state that that post related to copy/paste from wiki.
Your whole life is spent in a basement you think your uber good because your Isk balance is phat. Your claims of being interlectual are only testament to 16 hours a day you spend google searching and wiki's.
And you get a boner from forum whoring from your high Horse.
Step down from that horse take a wander out of your basement, there is more to life than Eve-O forums and Isk making. |
|
Nate D
Hell's Rejects
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 14:56:00 -
[4091]
It comes down to the economic ideas of consumer surplus and product value.
CCP is hedging their bets to see if subscribers will continue to have the same amount of consumer surplus when the price of maintaining their accounts rises exponentially. Though it's proven that when price rises (without significant product advancement), value decreases along with consumer surplus. It's easy to see that CCP has made no significant advancements to the management of multiple accounts or the way skills are trained to add value for the consumer. Thus CCP ends up with less revenue.
They don't call economics the dismal science for nothing but I'd really like to hear what CCP's own Dr.EyjoG thinks of the possible outcomes of this move.
Call it what you will, "you must pay for service" or whatever. But we're really talking about revenue dollars for CCP. I think that they're playing the wrong hand here. They will make more revenue the other way. |
Blackjack Turner
Caldari Inverted Awareness
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 14:58:00 -
[4092]
Play da game. You guys amaze me. No other game allows (at least to my knowledge) you to train skills while you sleep. Some of you are angry that you cannot train skills while your account is inactive? WTF??!
Go play some Ultima Online and spend an afternoon whacking trees with an axe to improve a crafting skill.
Then ***** to me about training while your account isn't even active!
Can I have your stuff? |
Ilda Mrika
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 15:04:00 -
[4093]
Originally by: Blackjack Turner Play da game. You guys amaze me. No other game allows (at least to my knowledge) you to train skills while you sleep. Some of you are angry that you cannot train skills while your account is inactive? WTF??!
Since when you skill up by playing EVE? You gain the exact same sp's being logged, while you sleep or while you take a crap. D o y o u u n d e r s t a n d ? |
Hun Jakuza
Naughty By Nature
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 15:04:00 -
[4094]
Edited by: Hun Jakuza on 16/10/2008 15:05:52
Originally by: Blackjack Turner Play da game. You guys amaze me. No other game allows (at least to my knowledge) you to train skills while you sleep. Some of you are angry that you cannot train skills while your account is inactive? WTF??!
Go play some Ultima Online and spend an afternoon whacking trees with an axe to improve a crafting skill.
Then ***** to me about training while your account isn't even active!
Can I have your stuff?
But first we should be go, we see it how goes Eve to ruin like a SWG. And send for me a message and i send for you a noobship just for you if you want some stuff, may be you can fly with Ibis. But i wrong, i think you can't, just beg like a beggar. |
Midas Man
Caldari Dzark Asylum
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 15:10:00 -
[4095]
Edited by: Midas Man on 16/10/2008 15:14:34
Originally by: Shar Tegral
Originally by: Hun Jakuza No, we hate the gaylentes, so we dont go to adult club. :D
Where are all the good men?They already have boyfriends!For a girl the are real slim pickings when looking for a man with class, cleanliness, and intelligence. So I'm happy them gaylentes are around. (Female toon, I'm not female.)
Ahhh got you so your one of these internet pervs who pretends to be a young girl to prey on other unsuspecting young girls.
There are alot on the internet but atleast we unveiled 1
edit fixed quote |
Velda Chulai
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 15:14:00 -
[4096]
Edited by: Velda Chulai on 16/10/2008 15:14:47
Originally by: Shar Tegral
Originally by: Midas Man You run off to find your furnishing list and see a line has been added next to TV saying "Landlord retains the right to revoke this option at any time"
Difference between Features and Guide.In CCP's case, the tv was left there. Accident, small present, who cares. You then decided to go blaring it all hours of the night and abusing a privilege that was not yours... the landlord took the tv. Now, you have the right to be ****ed off if the landlord didn't tell you he was going into your flat. However every landlord reserves the right to enter for work, modification, and/or recovery of his property. Of course if you like you can litigate the matter or, if you don't have any leg to stand on, you can stand outside your flat screaming and whining about how the world has done you wrong and woah's me. Please, continue to cry your big alligator tears about budget and life and constraints. Saves me going to the threatres and paying Hollywood for a bullshit sob story. But the truth is that the good players got hurt not by what CCP did, or even how they did it, but by the fact that other players defaced a game mechanic from rampant abuse. I do alot of api auditing for the Eve equivalent of "wall street". I see some of the abuse CCP is talking about on a regular basis. It is the reason I brought the matter up to the CSM board back in June. Responsible adults know that if something is free but being sucked dry, it disappears. Children only know, I had it, it is gone, <wail>. Simple really. Much like yourself.
Sorry but your version of the story makes no sense, because the ghost trainers used less resources than the TV in this case (if the volume were up, that would be akin to creating additional load/work for the GMs, which according tot eh EULA results in warnings followed by a ban).
A better example would be to say that a landlord gave you parking as part of the lease. The problem is that the landlord wasn't being specific, so you decide that, as a bus driver, you're going to park a 20 foot long bus in that parking spot. The Landlord wakes up the following day and thinks "Uh... What the hell is that?". He stumbles out of bed, gets down the stairs, and marvels at this huge bus in his driveway. He's a bit shocked by it, but they edit their tenant's agreement so that future bus drivers can park their buses in his property parking spots - After talking about it, the tennants agree to pay extra rent for their buses.
A few years later he goes to one of his Chinese rental properties and declares that he doesn't want buses parked. He specifically goes back to his other rental property and says "Don't worry guys, you're not affected!"
And then some time later he issues citations for 48 hour notice.
The Bus Drivers are understandably livid now. Their Landlord has given them no time to prepare and has gone from friendly to seemingly schizophrenic. Sure, he seems to have the right to do this. Meanwhile anyone parking a a Mini is suddenly laughing at the Bus Drivers - They should be driving more economic vehicles or getting off the road. Some of the Bus Drivers think "Sure, I was paying for all of those parking spots but I guess I should switch to being a Cab Driver".
The difference is that in Eve, there is no lost physical space. The "Bus Drivers" leave virtually no footprint of any kind, in fact. The Landlord in this case has lost a lot of rent, and some of the tenants are moving out.
|
Shar Tegral
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 15:26:00 -
[4097]
Originally by: Shar Tegral (Female toon, I'm not female.)
Originally by: Midas Man Ahhh got you so your one of these internet pervs who pretends to be a young girl to prey on other unsuspecting young girls. There are alot on the internet but atleast we unveiled 1
Man, you've got a real emo-flame thing going on here. Did I steal your girlfriend in another life or something? Having a female avatar makes me a pervert. Wow, with logic like that I can now see why you choose not to get it. Of course there is a reason I have a female avatar other than perversion (you should see someone about that) that was explained over a year ago. I now exercise my option of <last word> on you. I can only hope you are one of those who unsubs. Might improve the nature of discussion around here without your ... issues... spewing forth. |
Shar Tegral
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 15:28:00 -
[4098]
Originally by: Velda Chulai The difference is that in Eve, there is no lost physical space. The "Bus Drivers" leave virtually no footprint of any kind, in fact. The Landlord in this case has lost a lot of rent, and some of the tenants are moving out.
Bon Voyage!
|
Ramblin Man
Empyreum
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 15:34:00 -
[4099]
Thread tl;dr
Second Account Considering the training times on 'heavy' skills and the frequent (and fairly arbitrary) rebalances, there goes my second account (so that's $0/month, instead of the 'gaming-the-system' money from it I was planning on paying).
Primary Account Considering the bullshit official line on this (which afaik has been "It's a feature!" -> "We're thinking of removing it." -> "We aren't removing it, because we know you use it.") has changed to the ludicrious "We're removing it, because we didn't know you used it!", that's a pretty hefty hit on my motivation for a primary account. This is the biggest fu(kup since t20 got away with spawning T2 BPOs.
|
Velda Chulai
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 15:35:00 -
[4100]
Originally by: Shar Tegral
Originally by: Shar Tegral (Female toon, I'm not female.)
Originally by: Midas Man Ahhh got you so your one of these internet pervs who pretends to be a young girl to prey on other unsuspecting young girls. There are alot on the internet but atleast we unveiled 1
...emo-flame...
There is no flame but emo-flame! |
|
Nate D
Hell's Rejects
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 15:39:00 -
[4101]
Originally by: Ramblin Man Thread tl;dr
Second Account Considering the training times on 'heavy' skills and the frequent (and fairly arbitrary) rebalances, there goes my second account (so that's $0/month, instead of the 'gaming-the-system' money from it I was planning on paying).
Primary Account Considering the bullshit official line on this (which afaik has been "It's a feature!" -> "We're thinking of removing it." -> "We aren't removing it, because we know you use it.") has changed to the ludicrious "We're removing it, because we didn't know you used it!", that's a pretty hefty hit on my motivation for a primary account. <snip>
This is a great example of wasted consumer surplus due to an exponential increase in price and decreased game value.
CCP has made a bad revenue decision here. |
Cutesmile
Pator Tech School
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 15:41:00 -
[4102]
Originally by: Shar Tegral
Originally by: Shar Tegral (Female toon, I'm not female.)
Originally by: Midas Man Ahhh got you so your one of these internet pervs who pretends to be a young girl to prey on other unsuspecting young girls. There are alot on the internet but atleast we unveiled 1
Man, you've got a real emo-flame thing going on here. Did I steal your girlfriend in another life or something? Having a female avatar makes me a pervert. Wow, with logic like that I can now see why you choose not to get it. Of course there is a reason I have a female avatar other than perversion (you should see someone about that) that was explained over a year ago. I now exercise my option of <last word> on you. I can only hope you are one of those who unsubs. Might improve the nature of discussion around here without your ... issues... spewing forth.
Man you are one realy pesky idiot, who cant bear if anyone said truth. |
Brother Welcome
Amarr Suddenly Ninjas
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 15:47:00 -
[4103]
Edited by: Brother Welcome on 16/10/2008 15:48:29
Originally by: Grismar I can only agree with the decision to fix it in the first place, it's a stupid feature and only supports RMT character farming. But I think it's just plain stupid to have waited this long.
Right now, you leave people no other choice than believing that the only reason you left it in was to inflate the number of people that had active accounts from time to time, to improve the image of the corporation with investors and for purposes of promotion.
You raise an interesting point. Does it seem likely that CCP incorporated the feature to inflate user statistics? My view is that it's tin-foil hattery to believe that, but since they still have ghost-research and ghost-trading some inflation must still apply.
So far as RMT goes, CCP sanctions RMT by selling GTCs and facilitating their conversion to ISK. You might find that objectionable, but ghost-skilling has nothing to do with it.
You could make a solid case suggesting that ghost-skilling exerts a downward pressure on character trade prices, but you also need to show how that matters. Having expressed a distaste for RMT, you contradict yourself if you argue that character trade prices should be higher.
-vk
|
Velda Chulai
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 15:52:00 -
[4104]
I'm not sure what to buy more: That Shar is obviously trolling this thread or that Navigator hasn't caught up to that yet.
There is no rage but emo-rage! |
Nate D
Hell's Rejects
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 15:55:00 -
[4105]
Come on CCP... Call this off already and apologize! Then we can work towards the goal of disabling this, TOGETHER, as a community. It will require change to the game, the way skills and multiple accounts are handled. |
Shar Tegral
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 15:57:00 -
[4106]
Originally by: Cutesmile Man you are one realy pesky idiot, who cant bear if anyone said truth.
I enjoyed you calling me an idiot. I mean an NPC corp hugging courier mission running alt is obviously the deliverer of truth. So sayeth the alts, so sayeth we rabble - rabble. (Don't these people realize I can't be trolled into getting banned? When I get banned it is because I choose it. ) |
Clansworth
Burning Sky Labs
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 16:17:00 -
[4107]
Originally by: Xhanti
Originally by: Clansworth Even after the change, I still feel that EVE has the best skill system of any MMO out there, simply because you don't have to Grind for XP. You can spend your playing time actually PLAYING the game, and not worry about focusing on bettering your character. This change is not affecting that at all.
"bettering" your character IS the game, else go to a chat room and play D&D.
I guess you and I are playing a completely different game. I enjoy actually flying the ship. I enjoy combat. I enjoy the logistical challenge of running an industrial process. THIS is what I enjoy about EvE. If all you wanted to do was 'level up', why don't you go play any of the other MMORPG's out there that FOCUS on that? |
IronPants
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 16:23:00 -
[4108]
Originally by: Xhanti
Originally by: Clansworth Even after the change, I still feel that EVE has the best skill system of any MMO out there, simply because you don't have to Grind for XP. You can spend your playing time actually PLAYING the game, and not worry about focusing on bettering your character. This change is not affecting that at all.
"bettering" your character IS the game, else go to a chat room and play D&D.
The flip side to this..if you want that shiny capital ship (poor soul) you get to train battleship V and other fun long skills..which are simply the most ingenious time sinks out.Besides buying +5 implants and learning skills (time sink to lessen a greater time sink)... nothing can be done to speed that up. Now your paying for 2-3 months subscription to get that shiney new toy trained..and they know if you want it they got ya by the gonads cash wise.
Sometimes it might be better to grind xp than wait a month-3 months to fly that new toy .
|
Thymos Anima
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 16:35:00 -
[4109]
While I feel mixed about this, new player, I can see why the old veterans of EvE are outraged, since they might have more than 1 accout. If a level 5 takes 1-2 months, puting that account on stand-by and still training was a great feature.
What I never understood as a new player is why I get to create 3 chars per account, but only one char at the time can train his skills? That is like having one char in a sense, not 3. Pay to train your skills sounds reasonable, but limiting the skill train to just one char is like saying "Go buy a new account if you want an alt".
I was a bit surprised to see my second char on the same account saying "Your other char is training XXX skill, do you really want to continue?" lol.
So I guess if you limit the training skill to only subscribed accounts then, at least, let me train an alt at the same time on my 1 account.
|
Hul'ka
Minmatar MicroFunks
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 16:36:00 -
[4110]
Originally by: Clansworth
Originally by: Xhanti
Originally by: Clansworth Even after the change, I still feel that EVE has the best skill system of any MMO out there, simply because you don't have to Grind for XP. You can spend your playing time actually PLAYING the game, and not worry about focusing on bettering your character. This change is not affecting that at all.
"bettering" your character IS the game, else go to a chat room and play D&D.
I guess you and I are playing a completely different game. I enjoy actually flying the ship. I enjoy combat. I enjoy the logistical challenge of running an industrial process. THIS is what I enjoy about EvE. If all you wanted to do was 'level up', why don't you go play any of the other MMORPG's out there that FOCUS on that?
EVE is not about leveling, but it's essential to learne skills to be able to do new stuff, fly new ships, etc. When i pay for this game i pay to build, to invent, to fly, to shoot... Me, and few of my friends was using ghost training for few reasons. Either we wanted a brake from the game, or we had some RL issues, or whatever. So, we let our accounts expire while we ware doing what needed to be donne. And I can tell ya, we ware motivated to come back when those skills complete.
But, recent activities (nano nerf and total lack of dev reponce to hundreds and hundreds of player posts) and now this greedy move makes an emo out of me and i'm not willing to pay for a game that is run by that kind of people with that kind of attitude. Still have month and a half until subsscription expires for 2 of my active accounts and that will be it.
I really hope all of this will be sorted out, fixed, hope some people will get fired for doing a bad job and hope I'll see most of you once again in space. |
|
BIind
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 16:42:00 -
[4111]
Edited by: BIind on 16/10/2008 16:45:24 I just love how this ~140 page monstrosity disappeared due to "I'm sorry we accidentally the whole thread" under a pile of announcements for medals and vague hints at the next expansion. I'm really curious when and if they'll eventually get around to fixing it or god forbid replying to it. |
Demitria Fernir
Caldari Science and Trade Institute
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 16:45:00 -
[4112]
Edited by: Demitria Fernir on 16/10/2008 16:45:22 it's ~140 pages. i think it's getting near of what nanonerf was when it was announced.
EDIT: CCP DIDN'T WANT MY TILDE ANYWAY |
Tae'Lin Hynd
Simply Planned
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 16:51:00 -
[4113]
Originally by: Demitria Fernir Edited by: Demitria Fernir on 16/10/2008 16:45:22 it's ~140 pages. i think it's getting near of what nanonerf was when it was announced.
EDIT: CCP DIDN'T WANT MY TILDE ANYWAY
Don't forget the other MAIN threads on this announcement that were locked. add those pages in too.
That is why they hid this steamroller, and just letting it roll on into the dusty DB. Supprised it didn't just vanish with the upgrade. |
Kheldon Fel
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 17:01:00 -
[4114]
Originally by: Grimnir
Originally by: Don Shadow
Show me ANY mmo where you need at least 1(ONE)YEAR of training to be able to use a ****ing armor or sword!
Show my ANY mmo where you can use the biggest and best armor or swords without having to either pay for your account or spend any time at it.
This is a stupid argument. Go google "free mmo" |
BravoFox
Bravo Corp
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 17:08:00 -
[4115]
Edited by: BravoFox on 16/10/2008 17:10:19
I posted a thread for this in the Game Development Forum because I felt that Skill Training is in fact part of the "Game". Anyway, it was locked of course and now we are all forced to post into this thread with 136+ pages and growing where there is a snowball's chance in hell that the Dev's will actually read it and take it seriously. In a fit of laziness... Copy/Paste
Originally by: BravoFox Let me start by saying that I am an active Eve player for 3+ years now. I have held 2 paid accounts for the duration of that time. Never once have I let an account lapse and utilized the method of "Ghost Training". I have known others to use the feature because they were either going away for awhile (real life), they were growing tired of Eve but planned to return, or they're real life financial situation was to harsh to justify the monthly subscription fee. I still don't see any fault behind their actions and although I never used the feature, I was never opposed to it.
With that said and this new server patch implemented to essentially ban it, I can't help but see exactly what was stated in Torgi's Dev Blog, "CCP is a greedy money chewing monster". There are literally thousands of computer games out there that you buy once and you have the right to play that game for all eternity, Eve-Online is NOT one of those games. Eve is Pay-To-Play, if you want to play the game, you pay the subscription fee. The price you've paid to play continues to grow and you never reach a point where you've been a subscriber for X amount of time or you've paid a total X amount of dollars so CCP says... "Ok, you've been with us long enough. Your account is now paid for." To date, I've paid CCP a total of $1,124.90(US) to play this game and god damn it, if I want to take a month off to train for something I can't even afford in-game, I think they owe me that right. What's basically being said here is that if someone wants to train a skill, they have to pay CCP, even if they don't actually log into the game and play for 30 seconds the entire month. How can I not see you as being a Greedy Money Chewing Monster?
Ok... so you've eliminated "Ghost Training" making it only possible to train a skill if you're character resides on an Active-Cold-Hard-Cash-Forking-Over-Account. If you're not looking for ways to suck every last penny you can out of your subscribers, IMPLEMENT A SKILL QUEUE. Quite honestly, I'm paying YOU MY CASH. I'm your customer. We, the player base, YOUR CUSTOMERS, want you to implement a Skills Queue so we can train skills without throwing away our hard earned $$$ that we are paying to YOU. When our characters finish training skills and we aren't around or too busy to log into your server to start a new skill, we are wasting money. We're not playing the game and we're not training skills offline (which you are charging us for now) so we're basically just giving you cash because we like you. Sorry, I am a nice guy, but this isn't the case. I need every penny I earn just as most of the other players of Eve probably do.
If you want to make a show of good faith and prove to your customer base that you are not out to just suck them for everything you can, implement a Skill Training Queue. If you do this, neither of us will be leeching off of the other, you'll get paid subscriptions for accounts that are training, and we'll have characters that are constantly training and not wasting unrecoverable time. A fair compromise.
Here's what it boils down to, I don't give two shits about deleting the possibility of Ghost Training. What I do care about is that you have now made it offical that it does in fact, cost $$$ to train a character. So if I'm paying you my hard earned $$$, I want my toon training for the duration of the subscription. Implement a Skills Queue. Your 100% LOYAL CUSTOMER BASE is asking for it. It's not like you're going to **** someone off by implementing it. With Ghost Training gone, in-active accounts won't be able to abuse. |
Redback911
Malevolent Intentions Divine Anarchy
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 17:15:00 -
[4116]
Well done CCP.
Crybabies, learn to pay your way. |
Lana Ground
Caldari Galactic Accord State Navy Academy Accord Corporate Enterprise Syndicate
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 17:17:00 -
[4117]
Edited by: Lana Ground on 16/10/2008 17:17:34 urgh wow LOTS of pages 49 on the other thread that was killed + the 136 (at the time im typing this up) + anyother threads that i cant see :/ CCP get ze idea?? |
Blade Stalker
Minmatar
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 17:21:00 -
[4118]
Edited by: Blade Stalker on 16/10/2008 17:23:43 After 5 years of playing this game this one single desperate move to make more money, may be the one thing that makes me leave the game forever.
People rely on taking time outs and coming back (especially people who own like 3-6+ accounts) Its expensive to pay for all those accounts non stop when you go through real life non game playing downtime. The thing is...people DO reactivate those accounts and play them.. this decision may make them no reactivate ever again.
Your fiscal earnings this Quarter may be hurting which is why you did this... but your annual fiscal earnings will be considerably less from this points forward if you don't retract this move. MARK MY WORDS.. I KNOW BUSINESS... 130+ Pages of unhappy customers... bad mistake! Also, this isn't some small in game nerf that effects a limited number of pilots.. it effects everyone in the game so you should heed your customers words.
|
Tobin Shalim
Vulcan Foundry A.X.I.S
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 17:23:00 -
[4119]
CCP, do you really expect us to believe that this is anything more than just the simple fact that corporate greed is getting to you and you've decided to milk your customers for as much money as they're willing to give? You do know that this will alienate a lot of your more casual customers, of whose revenue you're depending on to grow since us hardcore Eve'ers just aren't going to cut it, right? We know that this is nothing more than a bs move to greedily gain money, so don't insult us by claiming that it's a "bug" fix when you've been advertising it as a "feature" for 5 years now. If it was such a serious problem, it would have been fixed years ago, and NOT advertised as being a "feature".
Furthermore, how can it be a strain on your DB? It's a simple countdown timer which wouldn't even be a strain if the DB was properly done in the first place; it's no different than an active account training if it's not logged in for a month, so don't try to get us to believe that it's a DB strain now. And if your DB can't handle characters that don't login for months at a time (active accounts) and do nothing, then you seriously need to rewrite your DB to handle that. Or just quit lying to us about your greedy reasons and just say it's because you want more money, at least that would be the truth. |
10of10
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 17:26:00 -
[4120]
Edited by: 10of10 on 16/10/2008 17:30:17 No way CCP can back down now. If they did people would be out of work... the people that implemented this decision. They are going to fight to keep this change alive. The bean counters have already crunched the numbers and convinced them that you are so addicted that you can't quit. |
|
Asith
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 17:30:00 -
[4121]
Prehap we cant quit MMOs but we can always move to a new one
/me points in the directions of Jumpgate Evo |
Taram Caldar
Noir. Trinity Nova Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 17:41:00 -
[4122]
Edited by: Taram Caldar on 16/10/2008 17:43:16 I find it absolutely stunning that a feature that was lauded by CCP as 'one of the FEATURES that keeps vets coming back to the game, even after they initially cancel' is being removed now.
So... instead of keeping SOME revenue coming into the game from alt accounts in training (after all you have to periodically activate the account in order to train it up) they are just going to dissenfranchise those making legitimate alts using this method? Seriously... this was always lauded as one of the FEATURES of EVE... even by Devs.... I find it odd that it's suddenly a 'bug' for some reason.
Doesn't really matter to me other than as an academic observation. Just find it really odd. Guess I'll just leave my alt account cancelled. Probably transfer my carrier pilot over to my main account and then just forget that account exists. So much for the 'power of two'.
It will be interesting to see how this affects the subscription numbers reports that CCP has been so proud of. |
10of10
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 17:45:00 -
[4123]
Bob needs less lag now and as we all know Bob gets what Bob wants. Seems alliances know how to manage lag better and it's no longer usefull to them. They are saying this will cut down on lag right... |
Taram Caldar
Noir. Trinity Nova Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 17:45:00 -
[4124]
Originally by: Asith Prehap we cant quit MMOs but we can always move to a new one
/me points in the directions of Jumpgate Evo
^^ This is a very real possibility TBFH.... depends how the game play is.
Can't wait to get in beta. |
Pur3Bl00D
Minmatar Shadow Company Axiom Empire
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 17:47:00 -
[4125]
So it seems they blatantly say to us:
"we know most players in this game have an alt which they purposefully created to train in "ghost" mode from time to time and we want to make some extra cash from that"
Since *our* senior developer is putting it this way let me put it my way:
1. One of the reasons i started this game was exactly that, *ghost training*. In all fairness i am not sure if it was actively advertised anywhere but certainly never ever got the impression that it is a *bug*. I work for a living and even the 20 euro's per month does have a corresponding value. Additionally i want to take a break from eve from time to time, and its good to know that i still progress in the game.
2. Another reason was the GTC for ISK option, in my view it is a very good option, not the *purest* approach to tackle isk sellers, but a practical approach to real needs of players. And even though i never took advantage of this option its good to know that i may be able to either buy IRL time and vice versa.
3. i don't have a second account but with view of this "fix" on this bug. I will not get one. PERIOD. It is too much for me to pay, many ppl will thing like that for sure.
|
Taram Caldar
Noir. Trinity Nova Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 17:50:00 -
[4126]
Edited by: Taram Caldar on 16/10/2008 17:51:06
Quote: We can look at this from a variety of angles, but it all comes down to:
1. There was a way to progress a character in EVE without an active subscription That we advertised as a FEATURE for the past 5 years 2. CCP noticed a surge in the trend and decided to fix the leak So that we can milk our players for more money 3. Players now have to pay a subscription for characters to have them progress
We truly hope that the community will understand our actions and continue to enjoy playing EVE as much as we enjoy making it. Because it would suck if they realised this is just a naked money grab and cancelled all their alt accounts as a result.
Torfi Frans Olafsson Senior Producer of EVE Online
Fixed it for you Torfi.
PS: My alt acct.... for 1... will now remain permanently cancelled. |
Ikathis sihtaki
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 17:50:00 -
[4127]
So my other account just lapsed, not matching up with my deposit date..hmm, that two week skill I had going won't be on when I get paid next week, and i will have to wait for myself to be active. A time i would otherwise been in game, that because of BAD TIMING I now have to suffer for it.
THANKS
|
Aganola
Amarr Hungarian Riflemen Regiment
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 17:55:00 -
[4128]
I know my post will drown in the topic nonetheless I feel compelled to say this:
Help me calculate a 1 year subscription for an alt:
1: pre GTC nerf: 8 x 1 month GTC + 8 x 14 days ghost training 8 x 15$ = 120$
2: post GTC nert (pre ghost nerf): 4 x 2 month GTC + 4 x 14 days ghost training 4 x 35$ = 140$
3: post ghost nerf: 6 x 2 month GTC 6 x 35$ = 210$
And this DOES NOT EVEN INCLUDE THE PAYMENT (+210$!!) FOR THE REAL CHARACTER!!!!
So basicly the cost of maintaining an alt doubled over the course of ONE year!
Lot of people cannot keep up with this (myself included)...
So this is the whine about... not just the screw over... :P
Thank you |
Pur3Bl00D
Minmatar Shadow Company Axiom Empire
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 17:59:00 -
[4129]
Now on purely economic terms:
1. CCP will lose a marketing tool, the phrase: 250.000 account will become 100.000.... 2. During a financial crisis CCP instead of trying to retain its market share does exactly the opposite. Do you really expect ppl with all those alts that they purely started to fit a specific purpose, one that surely requires many long-time skills to keep paying while having the character parked on a station of a region they don't even remember the name of?
3. I will, personally at least, accept an increase in fees, a hard limit of e.x. 30 days maximum "ghost training", but this abrupt halt of ghost will certainly pull players away from you and make it harder to pull new ones. Gamers know other gamers and we do discuss these things you know.
4. Content is not the only thing that will pull an MMO player. Support and other services do the job too. And this "unique" feature of ghost training is just an added "competitive advantage". you should treat it like that and certainly not as a bug.
|
Tae'Lin Hynd
Simply Planned
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 18:00:00 -
[4130]
Edited by: Tae''Lin Hynd on 16/10/2008 18:01:00
Originally by: Aganola I know my post will drown in the topic nonetheless I feel compelled to say this:
Help me calculate a 1 year subscription for an alt:
1: pre GTC nerf: 8 x 1 month GTC + 8 x 14 days ghost training 8 x 15$ = 120$
2: post GTC nert (pre ghost nerf): 4 x 2 month GTC + 4 x 14 days ghost training 4 x 35$ = 140$
3: post ghost nerf: 6 x 2 month GTC 6 x 35$ = 210$
And this DOES NOT EVEN INCLUDE THE PAYMENT (+210$!!) FOR THE REAL CHARACTER!!!!
So basicly the cost of maintaining an alt doubled over the course of ONE year!
Lot of people cannot keep up with this (myself included)...
So this is the whine about... not just the screw over... :P
Thank you
so like 6 bil isk costs 210 bucks?
Next math you need to figure out, is how much a character costs per skill point in real world value |
|
Aganola
Amarr Hungarian Riflemen Regiment
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 18:08:00 -
[4131]
Edited by: Aganola on 16/10/2008 18:08:36
Originally by: Tae'Lin Hynd Edited by: Tae''Lin Hynd on 16/10/2008 18:01:00
Originally by: Aganola I know my post will drown in the topic nonetheless I feel compelled to say this:
Help me calculate a 1 year subscription for an alt:
1: pre GTC nerf: 8 x 1 month GTC + 8 x 14 days ghost training 8 x 15$ = 120$
2: post GTC nert (pre ghost nerf): 4 x 2 month GTC + 4 x 14 days ghost training 4 x 35$ = 140$
3: post ghost nerf: 6 x 2 month GTC 6 x 35$ = 210$
And this DOES NOT EVEN INCLUDE THE PAYMENT (+210$!!) FOR THE REAL CHARACTER!!!!
So basicly the cost of maintaining an alt doubled over the course of ONE year!
Lot of people cannot keep up with this (myself included)...
So this is the whine about... not just the screw over... :P
Thank you
so like 6 bil isk costs 210 bucks?
Next math you need to figure out, is how much a character costs per skill point in real world value
Learn to write next time... I can't see if you are positive or negative to my post!
This is the real world price of the gtc as you can see here: http://www.shatteredcrystal.com/code.php/eve_online
|
Tae'Lin Hynd
Simply Planned
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 18:12:00 -
[4132]
Originally by: Aganola Edited by: Aganola on 16/10/2008 18:08:36
Originally by: Tae'Lin Hynd Edited by: Tae''Lin Hynd on 16/10/2008 18:01:00
Originally by: Aganola I know my post will drown in the topic nonetheless I feel compelled to say this:
Help me calculate a 1 year subscription for an alt:
1: pre GTC nerf: 8 x 1 month GTC + 8 x 14 days ghost training 8 x 15$ = 120$
2: post GTC nert (pre ghost nerf): 4 x 2 month GTC + 4 x 14 days ghost training 4 x 35$ = 140$
3: post ghost nerf: 6 x 2 month GTC 6 x 35$ = 210$
And this DOES NOT EVEN INCLUDE THE PAYMENT (+210$!!) FOR THE REAL CHARACTER!!!!
So basicly the cost of maintaining an alt doubled over the course of ONE year!
Lot of people cannot keep up with this (myself included)...
So this is the whine about... not just the screw over... :P
Thank you
so like 6 bil isk costs 210 bucks?
Next math you need to figure out, is how much a character costs per skill point in real world value
Learn to write next time... I can't see if you are positive or negative to my post!
This is the real world price of the gtc as you can see here: http://www.shatteredcrystal.com/code.php/eve_online
EH, I have heard that the value of the GTC was up to 900mil, don't usually visit that forum, maybe i will swing in and look, otherwise 210 bucks will get you 3b (assuming them to be around 500mil isk)
anyone see anything wrong with the realworld wallet buffing the ingame wallet? |
Kismeteer
BGG
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 18:23:00 -
[4133]
Greetings,
I'm just your normal dual account player. I'm not hardcore, I've been playing like three years now. I don't do the ghost training as I can afford to run two accounts for this period of time. (I don't want to think about how much money it was so far.)
I realize that people are gaming the system with ghost training. It's true. The people who constantly enable and disable accounts so they can 'dodge' paying for not doing anything, but getting something out of it can be aggravating. However, I believe you are going about it the wrong way.
You want to punish the people who are exploiting the system. The ones who are activating their account long enough to get some free training. Then, they reactivate it to get some more later. They are obviously just building characters to sell for money, or to give to a macroer, or something not great.
But you hurt someone else: Our friends who quit for awhile. Every single person on this message board has a friend, in game or real life, who quit eve because it was just too hard. They lose a big ship, they have a bug hurt them, they get concorded, they have all their resources trapped by a cagey opponent, and they quit for awhile. They are not saying 'I'm done' and disintegrating their characters, but just setting a long skill train and discontinuing paying.
Now these people, they might come back. They might be excited when they come back because they have cruiser V, or Battleship V, or Advanced weapon upgrade V. These are long skills, and massively open up your possibilities when you come back. And when they do, they reconnect with us, the usual players, who have been playing all this time, waiting for them to come back.
I have such a friend. His name is jacass66. He's in the military, went to some not-so-great places in service of his country, was in severe danger there, and he kept coming back. He had a reason to! Just think, by the time he got back from Iraq or Afghanistan, he had Carrier V! Imagine how much damage he could do now!
But, with the death of ghost training, he doesn't have a reason to come back. His character is the same. When he left, he had the exact same character and resources, and no modivation to get back to the grind. And who does that hurt?
Me. I have one less person to see every couple months, blow the crap out of some people, hang out with, and then not see for another couple months. You reduce the population of active players inadvertently, giving less pvp targets, less reason to get your skills up, and less reason to even log on. Because seriously, all the fun in this game is player driven.
Without players, eve dies. So give the players what they want.
Thanks.
Kismeteer (sorry jac, don't yell at me if you see this.) |
Mickey Simon
Deep Core Mining Inc.
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 18:27:00 -
[4134]
I'm somewhat interested in how "ghost training" actually creates more work for the CCP server.
I believe that the way training currently works is thus:
Your character has a DB entry that lists the SP they have in every skill, along with the skill they are currently training, and when that skill was set. When you are logged in, the client calculates how many SP approximately you've got, and how long to go until you've finished training to that skill based on current SP versus needed SP for the skill. When you reach 100% it contacts the server and tells the server to check the skill up and long story short, the database entries are updated and the current skill removed. That's why we can't queue skill training - because the architecture only supports 1 skill.
That's how I see it happenening, as to have the CCP server look after every single skill in training is ridiculous.
If that is the case, then how exactly does having someone ghost train impact the server in any way shape or form? When an account is inactive, you don't delete it. You keep it. There's no difference in information between a character ghost training, and one not.
So, what's the real reason? Or am I completely mistaken about the techncial aspects of skill training? |
Jayne Cobbe
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 18:28:00 -
[4135]
more than 4000 replies and CCP just kinda ignores it, that's it, I can't bear that business arrogance anymore. Tomorrow my subs run out. |
Tae'Lin Hynd
Simply Planned
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 18:33:00 -
[4136]
HIDDEN THREAD STILL IS HIDDEN THREAD |
Mickey Simon
Deep Core Mining Inc.
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 18:35:00 -
[4137]
Edited by: Mickey Simon on 16/10/2008 18:35:42 bump to see if this ends up the top of the forum =| edit: bumped it, and I still can't see it. What the hell? |
DogTyred
Tyrell Corp INTERDICTION
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 18:37:00 -
[4138]
I don't use ghost training but.......... Haven't i paid for the training time by buying the skills in the first place ? |
Aganola
Amarr Hungarian Riflemen Regiment
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 18:42:00 -
[4139]
Originally by: Mickey Simon I'm somewhat interested in how "ghost training" actually creates more work for the CCP server.
I believe that the way training currently works is thus:
Your character has a DB entry that lists the SP they have in every skill, along with the skill they are currently training, and when that skill was set. When you are logged in, the client calculates how many SP approximately you've got, and how long to go until you've finished training to that skill based on current SP versus needed SP for the skill. When you reach 100% it contacts the server and tells the server to check the skill up and long story short, the database entries are updated and the current skill removed. That's why we can't queue skill training - because the architecture only supports 1 skill.
That's how I see it happenening, as to have the CCP server look after every single skill in training is ridiculous.
If that is the case, then how exactly does having someone ghost train impact the server in any way shape or form? When an account is inactive, you don't delete it. You keep it. There's no difference in information between a character ghost training, and one not.
So, what's the real reason? Or am I completely mistaken about the techncial aspects of skill training?
it's even simpler than that...
If they did it right (and I belive they did, they are not THAT bad at coding ) the ONLY - repeat - ONLY data there is, is the DATE OF SKILL FINISH...
no nifty calculations (only calculates once, when starting... - this is why you have to STOP the training before you plug in another implant... it recalculates the data THEN) just a date...
wich cunsumes like... 1k of data(STORAGE)... so If they told you that this impacts on their server, they were lying... |
Cutesmile
Pator Tech School
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 18:43:00 -
[4140]
Originally by: Tae'Lin Hynd
Originally by: Aganola Edited by: Aganola on 16/10/2008 18:08:36
Originally by: Tae'Lin Hynd Edited by: Tae''Lin Hynd on 16/10/2008 18:01:00
Originally by: Aganola I know my post will drown in the topic nonetheless I feel compelled to say this:
Help me calculate a 1 year subscription for an alt:
1: pre GTC nerf: 8 x 1 month GTC + 8 x 14 days ghost training 8 x 15$ = 120$
2: post GTC nert (pre ghost nerf): 4 x 2 month GTC + 4 x 14 days ghost training 4 x 35$ = 140$
3: post ghost nerf: 6 x 2 month GTC 6 x 35$ = 210$
And this DOES NOT EVEN INCLUDE THE PAYMENT (+210$!!) FOR THE REAL CHARACTER!!!!
So basicly the cost of maintaining an alt doubled over the course of ONE year!
Lot of people cannot keep up with this (myself included)...
So this is the whine about... not just the screw over... :P
Thank you
so like 6 bil isk costs 210 bucks?
Next math you need to figure out, is how much a character costs per skill point in real world value
Learn to write next time... I can't see if you are positive or negative to my post!
This is the real world price of the gtc as you can see here: http://www.shatteredcrystal.com/code.php/eve_online
EH, I have heard that the value of the GTC was up to 900mil, don't usually visit that forum, maybe i will swing in and look, otherwise 210 bucks will get you 3b (assuming them to be around 500mil isk)
anyone see anything wrong with the realworld wallet buffing the ingame wallet?
Oh no, you are wrong he wrote good prices. and he thinking right. You think ISK=GTC, but you wrong. Someone brought those GTCs for $ and that is income for CCP.
|
|
Injuries
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 18:43:00 -
[4141]
I'm almost certain they are going to lose a bunch of subscriptions over this. They lied about it being a bug when it was in their game manual (which not surprisingly has been edited). Expecting people not to complain about that is just stupid. Yes it was a feature that seemed like you were getting skill points for nothing. But in reality it was left there and included in the manual so that it practically guarenteed that you would renew that account.
So it was a freebie with the intention to get you to play more and have more accounts. The mistake was to take it out without having something else to draw players to having multiple accounts. Sorry but the power of 2 is not good enough as it is temporary. Times are tough and people are cutting costs any way they can. The best thing you can do in this situation is give them other worthwhile reasons to keep on playing.
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Niheim Brandt
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 18:50:00 -
[4142]
This just in...
"As many of you know by now, on Wednesday, Oct 15th, CCP will put out a server update disabling "ghost posting". Ghost Posting was an unintended feature where unpaid accounts of EVE Online were able to continue posting on the forums. While this allowed players to voice their concerns on a shoestring budget, in all effect, this was a bug.
ISD Forum Team: So we just went ahead and fixed the glitch.
CCP Oveur: Grrrreat.
CCP Wrangler: So, uh, the players have been banned?
ISD Forum Team: Well, just a second there, professor. We, uh, we fixed the *glitch*. So they won't be posting anymore, so it'll just work itself out naturally.
CCP Fallout We always like to avoid confrontation, whenever possible. Problem is solved from your end.
|
Tae'Lin Hynd
Simply Planned
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 19:01:00 -
[4143]
Originally by: Cutesmile
Originally by: Tae'Lin Hynd
Originally by: Aganola Edited by: Aganola on 16/10/2008 18:08:36
Originally by: Tae'Lin Hynd Edited by: Tae''Lin Hynd on 16/10/2008 18:01:00
Originally by: Aganola I know my post will drown in the topic nonetheless I feel compelled to say this:
Help me calculate a 1 year subscription for an alt:
1: pre GTC nerf: 8 x 1 month GTC + 8 x 14 days ghost training 8 x 15$ = 120$
2: post GTC nert (pre ghost nerf): 4 x 2 month GTC + 4 x 14 days ghost training 4 x 35$ = 140$
3: post ghost nerf: 6 x 2 month GTC 6 x 35$ = 210$
And this DOES NOT EVEN INCLUDE THE PAYMENT (+210$!!) FOR THE REAL CHARACTER!!!!
So basicly the cost of maintaining an alt doubled over the course of ONE year!
Lot of people cannot keep up with this (myself included)...
So this is the whine about... not just the screw over... :P
Thank you
so like 6 bil isk costs 210 bucks?
Next math you need to figure out, is how much a character costs per skill point in real world value
Learn to write next time... I can't see if you are positive or negative to my post!
This is the real world price of the gtc as you can see here: http://www.shatteredcrystal.com/code.php/eve_online
EH, I have heard that the value of the GTC was up to 900mil, don't usually visit that forum, maybe i will swing in and look, otherwise 210 bucks will get you 3b (assuming them to be around 500mil isk)
anyone see anything wrong with the realworld wallet buffing the ingame wallet?
Oh no, you are wrong he wrote good prices. and he thinking right. You think ISK=GTC, but you wrong. Someone brought those GTCs for $ and that is income for CCP.
ahh, but you are missing me , REAL WORLD WALLET = GTC = ISK = BUFF INGAME THROUGH REAL WORLD MEANS
The old CCP said that is why they fought so hard the isk sellers, because th ey didn't want anyone to have an advantage through real world money.
UP WITH THE ITEM MARKET!!!BEST IDEA EVER KILLS SERVER LAG AND KEYSTROKE FARMERS!!EVE POINTS FOR ALL!!!
Also, stop in and get your purple hat so you can jump around all happy like!! |
Seth Vorlar
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 19:02:00 -
[4144]
Originally by: Niheim Brandt This just in...
"As many of you know by now, on Wednesday, Oct 15th, CCP will put out a server update disabling "ghost posting". Ghost Posting was an unintended feature where unpaid accounts of EVE Online were able to continue posting on the forums. While this allowed players to voice their concerns on a shoestring budget, in all effect, this was a bug.
ISD Forum Team: So we just went ahead and fixed the glitch.
CCP Oveur: Grrrreat.
CCP Wrangler: So, uh, the players have been banned?
ISD Forum Team: Well, just a second there, professor. We, uh, we fixed the *glitch*. So they won't be posting anymore, so it'll just work itself out naturally.
CCP Fallout We always like to avoid confrontation, whenever possible. Problem is solved from your end.
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH ROFLKOPTER (I nearly shit in my pant¦s when reading this) |
Kheldon Fel
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 19:10:00 -
[4145]
Originally by: Niheim Brandt This just in...
"As many of you know by now, on Wednesday, Oct 15th, CCP will put out a server update disabling "ghost posting". Ghost Posting was an unintended feature where unpaid accounts of EVE Online were able to continue posting on the forums. While this allowed players to voice their concerns on a shoestring budget, in all effect, this was a bug.
ISD Forum Team: So we just went ahead and fixed the glitch.
CCP Oveur: Grrrreat.
CCP Wrangler: So, uh, the players have been banned?
ISD Forum Team: Well, just a second there, professor. We, uh, we fixed the *glitch*. So they won't be posting anymore, so it'll just work itself out naturally.
CCP Fallout We always like to avoid confrontation, whenever possible. Problem is solved from your end.
That's hilarious. You win an internet. |
Gorek Loc
Etherware Heavy Engineering
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 19:11:00 -
[4146]
Originally by: CCP Fallout
Heya guys,
There appears to be some sort of technical issue with the original thread. It's still reachable if you visit this link:
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=896318&page=1
I will have our tech people look into why it's not showing up anymore on the main page as it should be.
Please post here if you are having issues accessing the thread. Please be sure to keep your comments regarding the blog and the upcoming ghost training changes in the above thread.
Not working very hard, are the tech guys, eh? ... or is the reason that you don't want that many complaints and the easiest way is to make the access a little bit harder? |
Ezoran DuBlaidd
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 19:13:00 -
[4147]
maybe we should have a bbq, and then a garage sale and we could sell stuff at the garage sale (like t2 bpos).
good thing none of the 4+ posts in this STILL hidden thread (yeah, how many days to unhide something that mysteriously went hidden? no tin foil hats needed here.) talks to anyone or posts anyplace where threads aren't mysteriously hidden.
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NSSQUAD
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 19:16:00 -
[4148]
WOW CCP you let me down. that was one this about this game the kept me around. did you ever think what not having money to pay for eve because you have to pay rent? i liked having the feeling that i could put on a long skill and when i got around to reuping my account that i had gotten something down. |
Ralon Aster
Amarr
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 19:17:00 -
[4149]
Originally by: 10of10 Bob needs less lag now and as we all know Bob gets what Bob wants. Seems alliances know how to manage lag better and it's no longer usefull to them. They are saying this will cut down on lag right...
Is't this a bit tooo much tinfoil?
Ah well, perhaps the big alliances really have enough capital alts by now and don't want the competition to catch up.. |
supr3m3justic3
Caldari Hakata Group
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Posted - 2008.10.16 19:19:00 -
[4150]
so with out reading through 137 pages...has ccp even reply to anyone? Or is the OP the only one we are going to see? |
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Buckwheat
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 19:21:00 -
[4151]
Has anyone actually confirmed that Ghost Training has been disabled? I just reactivated one of my accounts that was in the process of training Gallente Battleship V, and it wasn't paused. By my understanding, all ghost training was to be suspended on Wednesday? Or does it only apply to inactive accounts suspended after Wednesday? |
Gibmundur
Amarr Celestial Apocalypse Resurgency
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 19:26:00 -
[4152]
I protest this! |
Aganola
Amarr Hungarian Riflemen Regiment
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 19:26:00 -
[4153]
Originally by: Seth Vorlar
Originally by: Niheim Brandt This just in...
"As many of you know by now, on Wednesday, Oct 15th, CCP will put out a server update disabling "ghost posting". Ghost Posting was an unintended feature where unpaid accounts of EVE Online were able to continue posting on the forums. While this allowed players to voice their concerns on a shoestring budget, in all effect, this was a bug.
ISD Forum Team: So we just went ahead and fixed the glitch.
CCP Oveur: Grrrreat.
CCP Wrangler: So, uh, the players have been banned?
ISD Forum Team: Well, just a second there, professor. We, uh, we fixed the *glitch*. So they won't be posting anymore, so it'll just work itself out naturally.
CCP Fallout We always like to avoid confrontation, whenever possible. Problem is solved from your end.
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH ROFLKOPTER (I nearly shit in my pant¦s when reading this)
nice fake... but if it's true then it's even nicer... :P |
Yilan Cheran
Gallente Stellar Research Incorporated DEFI4NT
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Posted - 2008.10.16 19:29:00 -
[4154]
Stupid. Knowing that upon returning a long skill would be finished has brought me back to Eve twice, and for at least two people I introduced to Eve, Ghost Training was one of the big selling points.
But oh well, we'll see if disabling this will have an effect on revenue, whether positive or, as I expect, negative |
Space Winnebago
Gallente Reaper Industries Eternal Rapture
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Posted - 2008.10.16 19:31:00 -
[4155]
I rarely ever post as I fail to see the point most of the time.
I think it's to bad that "ghost training" was removed simply because it removes real value from the game in the respect that everybody takes a break and I know for me a few times I have as well and knowing for example heavy assault cruisers V or recon ships V was training while I was away in real life for job training or just taking a break when that skill finished it surely brought me right back to eve with renewed enthusiasm.
Unlike most mmorpg's eve really does not give one "real" alts on your account, you have 3 slots but 2 are essentially useless for anything other than a noob ship scout or a fast hauler training, or maybe a basic trader. In other games you can make all your alt slots use-full by grinding which is one of the benefits of eve, the lack thereof. If you want an alt you need a second account, bottom line.
This would be quelled in a heartbeat if we had the ability to train our alt slots, or perhaps pay a half price fee to train our alt slots at the same time you train your main, adding real value back to the game.
I don't profess to know the future but my gut feeling is this will not effect players so much with 2 accounts as you really need 2 in this game but if you are beyond that I really do see people making cuts or consolidating accounts.
I see a lot of old characters in this game and its a shame to see anyone leave we are all part of the games atmosphere as well as it's value unfortunately I fear we just lost a portion. |
Tito Sajic
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 19:33:00 -
[4156]
Originally by: Buckwheat Has anyone actually confirmed that Ghost Training has been disabled? I just reactivated one of my accounts that was in the process of training Gallente Battleship V, and it wasn't paused. By my understanding, all ghost training was to be suspended on Wednesday? Or does it only apply to inactive accounts suspended after Wednesday?
I believe that there is a three day grace period once the account expires. |
Tara Yang
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 19:36:00 -
[4157]
Edited by: Tara Yang on 16/10/2008 19:40:00 I just realised why CCP is not commenting on this thread. They can't find it cause it's still hidden off course
edit
Originally by: Space Winnebago I rarely ever post as I fail to see the point most of the time.
I think it's to bad that "ghost training" was removed simply because it removes real value from the game in the respect that everybody takes a break and I know for me a few times I have as well and knowing for example heavy assault cruisers V or recon ships V was training while I was away in real life for job training or just taking a break when that skill finished it surely brought me right back to eve with renewed enthusiasm.
Unlike most mmorpg's eve really does not give one "real" alts on your account, you have 3 slots but 2 are essentially useless for anything other than a noob ship scout or a fast hauler training, or maybe a basic trader. In other games you can make all your alt slots use-full by grinding which is one of the benefits of eve, the lack thereof. If you want an alt you need a second account, bottom line.
This would be quelled in a heartbeat if we had the ability to train our alt slots, or perhaps pay a half price fee to train our alt slots at the same time you train your main, adding real value back to the game.
I don't profess to know the future but my gut feeling is this will not effect players so much with 2 accounts as you really need 2 in this game but if you are beyond that I really do see people making cuts or consolidating accounts.
I see a lot of old characters in this game and its a shame to see anyone leave we are all part of the games atmosphere as well as it's value unfortunately I fear we just lost a portion.
Highlighted the part I really liked Very good point I hope they do that would be awsome together with skill queue |
Kery Syander
The Illuminati. Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2008.10.16 19:37:00 -
[4158]
Congratulations CCP on achieving a new low. This thread is still some how 'broken' on the forum. For some reason it no longer shows up on the main page, and it's still growing towards the 150 page mark. Obviously, you have sold out and are doing somewhat questionable and going about it in an incredibly suspect manner. Pathetic.
I was once a big fan of EVE and CCP. I will never say another nice thing about CCP or your game so long as I live. |
Edoc Fleetfoot
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Posted - 2008.10.16 19:41:00 -
[4159]
I run 2 characters... normally i keep them up all the time. But when i need to save money, i cancel subscriptions and put on a 10day+ skill.
NerfBat :(
I didnt think CCP was greedy! But i suppose they want to keep 6 figure incomes :P |
Zinnn
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 19:44:00 -
[4160]
Originally by: Buckwheat Has anyone actually confirmed that Ghost Training has been disabled? I just reactivated one of my accounts that was in the process of training Gallente Battleship V, and it wasn't paused. By my understanding, all ghost training was to be suspended on Wednesday? Or does it only apply to inactive accounts suspended after Wednesday?
it's said that it'll take 3 days after deactivation for the suspending of the SP gain to take effect. So really they gave people 5 days to deal with teh change instead of just 2... like that makes any difference. |
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Saint Lazarus
Spiorad ag fanaiocht
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 19:46:00 -
[4161]
*mandatory angry post* |
Moto42
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 19:55:00 -
[4162]
my first posting on the topic:
I am in disbelive that CCP really went though with this, And they are STILL covering it up, I mean we've had an offical statement that was pretty good but how about another one? Why do you keep letting people just go nuts on this subject? How about something like...
You can train skills while account is expired, for a small fee, or We're adding skill ques to it or something!
the LONGER you let this thread stay here hidden, the LONGER you let people keep posting about it on this hidden threat, the LONGER you let the player base bash you the WORSE it gets, you really outta do something about it. Make another statement, make the thread show up, do something. the LONGER you do nothing the worse it looks for you.
I like CCP, great game, but this is really uncalled for, and the entire "Sweep it under the rug and ride it out" really kinda looks bad on you.
take a momment to get though my spelling and grammer mistakes and I hope you will understand me about how bad it is to let this thread remain hidden / without comments.
There is one flaw to my statement though: Its true that when you do say something you do kinda put your foot in your mouth, Maybe now I understand why nobody is talking about this.
my account is up soon, I was planning to set a 14 day skill to train while I play on my alt, then re-up the account and play some more.. but now theres really no reason to do that, cause once it expires I have no real desire to come back.
Maybe i'm mixing to much in this topic.
Sorry
I guess my point is like this thread is like a rotten peice of meat, the longer it sits here not getting cleaned up the more the smell is wifting around. You're letting it go rotten in your fridge.
Get it out of the fridge so people stop talking bad about whats in your fridge.
english / fail
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Corwain
Gallente DIE WITH HONOUR
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 20:04:00 -
[4163]
This whole situation is pretty much utter bull. I was so excited to have the money to pay for all my accounts again and now I'm practically forced to cancel at least one of em on principal even though I can afford to pay for all of them. This whole scam is just ridiculous. CCP jacks up prices, then when people respond by not paying CCP goes and ****s with those of us who have been running alt on and off for a few years. I guess I'll just transfer my covops pilot (not training) and my Caldari carebear pilot (training for Golem) to my other two accounts and close the 3rd. When I do I'll take a screenshot and post it here. I think I'll also email CCP stating my logic and actions. I'll reactivate a 3rd account when and if CCP re-implement this feature that they have used to advertise with and are now taking away and calling a bug. |
supr3m3justic3
Caldari Hakata Group
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 20:11:00 -
[4164]
Originally by: Kery Syander Congratulations CCP on achieving a new low. This thread is still some how 'broken' on the forum. For some reason it no longer shows up on the main page, and it's still growing towards the 150 page mark. Obviously, you have sold out and are doing somewhat questionable and going about it in an incredibly suspect manner. Pathetic.
I was once a big fan of EVE and CCP. I will never say another nice thing about CCP or your game so long as I live.
Ha ha, thats why i put the lies and deception in my sig.....you cant hide now ccp
Someone start a riot in iceland.... |
shoot me
House Harkonnen
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 20:14:00 -
[4165]
Ghost training has always been a winning feature of Eve that encourages people to re-subscribe to the game. When ever I get bored of the game, usually due to lack of any new content I set one of the ridiculously long skills which enables me to fly new ships if I return. Curiosity always gets the better of me and I always return. Now, if I knew that I would still have the same skills as when I un-subscribed I would take much longer breaks or perhaps not even return.
I think the biggest reason for people taking breaks is not to train skills on the cheap its because of the lack of any new content to the game. Everyone who un-subscribes sets a long skill to train just in case they come back.
They could reduce training times across the board say 2 weeks for the longest skills, and that would result in everyone getting the skills they want sooner. However, the lack of content might start to be a greater problem. I could see more people loosing interest after a few months. Perhaps if the expansions where better and more frequent people would not cancel subscriptions as often or take breaks.
So I think removing ghost training will loose CCP money in the long run. What will be next? How about deleting characters when the subscription run out! That way no-one would dare cancel a subscription unless they where sure they where never going to return.
I am very disappointed but I think this kind of thing will happen more often as accountants take over CCP and start taking decisions based on misguided information.
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ViolenTUK
Gallente Vindicated Exiles
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 20:16:00 -
[4166]
This thread isnÆt visible through the main forum. We were told that they didnÆt know why this had happened. WE DONÆT BELIEVE YOU! Most will tell you that this is a lie. |
Aganola
Amarr Hungarian Riflemen Regiment
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 20:18:00 -
[4167]
Originally by: ViolenTUK This thread isn’t visible through the main forum. We were told that they didn’t know why this had happened. WE DON’T BELIEVE YOU! Most will tell you that this is a lie.
LIKE read this::
Originally by: Niheim Brandt This just in...
"As many of you know by now, on Wednesday, Oct 15th, CCP will put out a server update disabling "ghost posting". Ghost Posting was an unintended feature where unpaid accounts of EVE Online were able to continue posting on the forums. While this allowed players to voice their concerns on a shoestring budget, in all effect, this was a bug.
ISD Forum Team: So we just went ahead and fixed the glitch.
CCP Oveur: Grrrreat.
CCP Wrangler: So, uh, the players have been banned?
ISD Forum Team: Well, just a second there, professor. We, uh, we fixed the *glitch*. So they won't be posting anymore, so it'll just work itself out naturally.
CCP Fallout We always like to avoid confrontation, whenever possible. Problem is solved from your end.
|
Gorek Loc
Etherware Heavy Engineering
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 20:23:00 -
[4168]
5.500+ posts and not a single post from CCP or their employees. Do they even read it, or did they cave in immediately after the first flame?
I fear that this thread is off-limits for all CCP-employees!
Could we at least get a post from CCP to confirm they still follow the 'suggestions' on this thread, since all other threads are locked on other forums. |
Nei Gong
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 20:44:00 -
[4169]
Edited by: Nei Gong on 16/10/2008 20:52:14 there is a reply on page 93 i think
Linkage
whatever, they think we are ******ed, we think they are ******ed.. doesnt matter. every game tho has a peak, and judging by everything, that was eves peak. now im not saying thats the ultimate truth, but for the moment it seems that way. |
Squirrrel
Gallente Squirrrel Industries
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 20:54:00 -
[4170]
Originally by: Gorek Loc 5.500+ posts and not a single post from CCP or their employees. Do they even read it, or did they cave in immediately after the first flame?
I fear that this thread is off-limits for all CCP-employees!
Could we at least get a post from CCP to confirm they still follow the 'suggestions' on this thread, since all other threads are locked on other forums.
They don't even have the courage to form a proper document of the in-game "rules" - they make that rules on the fly, edit documents to suit their needs and the left hand doesn't know what the right hand is doing.
I don't really object to the change in itself, I object to being treated like an idiot over it's reasons.
Having said that, If my auto-renew fails through no fault of my own, at a time I can't get on to resub (or the accounts page isn't up) and my training stops, I'll be majorly annoyed. There should be a few days buffer on accounts closing for these very reasons.
I'm rapidly losing interest in this game. Just about every new feature is ruining it one way or another and CCP are proving they don't really care about the players. They seem to expect the player base to pay regardless, and let's be honest, PR is not their strongest suit.
CCP, you should be paying more attention to these threads that you start and want feedback and actually discuss these issues with the player base. You may soon find that you've missed the boat and you want to talk, but there's no one the other end.
|
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IR Scoutar
Caldari State War Academy
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 20:55:00 -
[4171]
still no appology for the lies eh ? (that includes torfis reply there btw) |
Gorek Loc
Etherware Heavy Engineering
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 20:58:00 -
[4172]
Edited by: Gorek Loc on 16/10/2008 20:59:17 I stand corrected, there was a reply on page 93. I can't believe I missed that!
Originally by: CCP t0rfifrans The bug that became a feature
On Monday, we released news that we are disabling äGhost Trainingô, the ability to train characters on inactive accounts. This resulted in strong reactions from the community as many people were routinely making use of it. We explained the matter in more detail and pointed out that this had been a bug in the original game code. Those of us who were involved in the process of making the decision and communicating it to the community did not realize this bug had been so accepted as a feature that it was listed as such in our own documentation on our own website.
How can we not know whatæs in our own documentation? Well, to be frank, it was a case of insufficient communication on our part between various teams û a regrettable mistake and hard lesson to learn at the expense of the trust youæve placed in us. Thereæs no way to spin it and we wonæt add insult to injury by trying to do so. It was a mistake on our part and for that we sincerely and humbly apologize.
Many would hope that in light of this we will decide not to cancel ghost training and keep it active as an option but weære cannot to do that. EVE is already one-of-a-kind in allowing players to progress their characters through offline skill training. We stand by our policy that if you want your character to progress in EVE, you should pay the subscription fee. The fact that so many people have been able to do so for several years was our own oversight. We know this change, and our misstep in telling you about it, has created some discontent and we hope that over time we can prove our committment to make EVE better than ever for you will be evident as you enjoy the fruits of our labor.
Torfi
Thanks for clearing that...
I hope you will reconsider after the board takes a closer look at the economics-review of the year.
To me, and many others, this feature has been a hook to returning to Eve after time away. I have been away from Eve in periods of 1 year, 4+months, 2+months. But when I came back, I was happy to continue playing as I now could do more stuff than before the game madde me bored. Sometimes a new lvl 5 skill, like Cruise Missile V or Advanced Spaceship Commmand V, or other skills that unlock ships.
From me, two accounts are down already I am not sure how long I will continue this account, maybe a month more, maybe I won't renew it.
Finally, this could also be a calling to try out some new games. I heard Spore should be a great game! Or another space simulator? Gotta keep looking |
Th0rG0d
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 21:00:00 -
[4173]
God bless MONEY, and all those caught in its grasp. For those of us trying to escape REALITY by playing these games, it just goes to show, YOU CAN'T ESCAPE!!!
God bless you CCP, and may He lead you back down the Path, of loving your customers, loving your job, and just being good, all around honest chaps........... |
Rethie
Caldari
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 21:06:00 -
[4174]
-4 more
talking to friends that are on a break, not coming back.
CCP would do better tracking all the unsubbed noob accounts and emailing them with a notification that the accounts will terminate in 30 day ticker, somewhat like the can timer. Putting in the trial account notes that they remain active for 30 days grace period after trial has expired. This would free db space and stats.
Oh yeah CCP aren't even watching this thread, so no point ranting.
WHen we are all gone, they can put up with the whining noobs more, because the older players aren't around to help.
Oh they won't be whining though, they will be too busy in virtual bars drooling over **** and manhoods and trying to figure out a way to simulate copulation, welcome to Second life. |
Tara Yang
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 21:09:00 -
[4175]
Originally by: CCP t0rfifrans The bug that became a feature
On Monday, we released news that we are disabling äGhost Trainingô, the ability to train characters on inactive accounts. This resulted in strong reactions from the community as many people were routinely making use of it. We explained the matter in more detail and pointed out that this had been a bug in the original game code. Those of us who were involved in the process of making the decision and communicating it to the community did not realize this bug had been so accepted as a feature that it was listed as such in our own documentation on our own website.
How can we not know whatæs in our own documentation? Well, to be frank, it was a case of insufficient communication on our part between various teams û a regrettable mistake and hard lesson to learn at the expense of the trust youæve placed in us. Thereæs no way to spin it and we wonæt add insult to injury by trying to do so. It was a mistake on our part and for that we sincerely and humbly apologize.
Many would hope that in light of this we will decide not to cancel ghost training and keep it active as an option but weære cannot to do that. EVE is already one-of-a-kind in allowing players to progress their characters through offline skill training. We stand by our policy that if you want your character to progress in EVE, you should pay the subscription fee. The fact that so many people have been able to do so for several years was our own oversight. We know this change, and our misstep in telling you about it, has created some discontent and we hope that over time we can prove our committment to make EVE better than ever for you will be evident as you enjoy the fruits of our labor.
Torfi
maybe a good Idea to put this in the dev blog somewhere and on the first page of this thread.
Marked out a small piece of text I really laughed about. Like deleting player posts, the thread that mysteriusly dissapeared from the first page, the account details page conviently failing and more importantly a bug that's in a game for 5 freaking years while a fix was already available for it is not adding insult to injury. |
nareph
Soleil noir Industry
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 21:11:00 -
[4176]
everything smart has been already said in the previous 130 (and a few) pages. this one is just to add some noise.
worst mistake ever, CCP... |
Arakn1s
Amarr Aurora Cartel AAA Citizens
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 21:14:00 -
[4177]
I love this game too much to just leave it. On the other hand i hate you so much for treating us more like customers and less like friends/game-mates/etc etc as you used to, till recently. We could brag that EvE is the only game with a player base that can be heard and change things. I remember during early 2006 how you used to advertise the escrow system and how it was implemented after player request and design.
Damn you for changing. I may not be leaving for good but my revenge will be -5 accounts till the end of the year. I ll just keep 2 running. |
MyOwnSling
Gallente RONA Corporation RONA Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 21:15:00 -
[4178]
People still talking about this? My attention span is too short. |
Cougem
Shadow Company
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 21:16:00 -
[4179]
Originally by: shoot me Ghost training has always been a winning feature of Eve that encourages people to re-subscribe to the game. When ever I get bored of the game, usually due to lack of any new content I set one of the ridiculously long skills which enables me to fly new ships if I return. Curiosity always gets the better of me and I always return. Now, if I knew that I would still have the same skills as when I un-subscribed I would take much longer breaks or perhaps not even return.
THIS!! This is such an incredibly good point. |
Jinx Barker
GFB Scientific
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 21:23:00 -
[4180]
CCP's NEW, OFFICIAL, THEME SONG! - Youtube... (not a Rick Roll, or whatever) |
|
Sciencegeek deathdealer
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 21:23:00 -
[4181]
GOOD JOB CCP FOR LISTENING TO YOUR CUSTOMERS!!!!! add a skill que atleast pls! Or allow all 3 characters to train skills. many mmog do that. atleast from what i heard. |
Torah Hyman
Gallente CyberDyne Industries Carpe Universitas
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 21:23:00 -
[4182]
Originally by: Cougem
Originally by: shoot me Ghost training has always been a winning feature of Eve that encourages people to re-subscribe to the game. When ever I get bored of the game, usually due to lack of any new content I set one of the ridiculously long skills which enables me to fly new ships if I return. Curiosity always gets the better of me and I always return. Now, if I knew that I would still have the same skills as when I un-subscribed I would take much longer breaks or perhaps not even return.
THIS!! This is such an incredibly good point.
Signed
/me waves a boot.ini card ,lest we not forget that one |
Rethie
Caldari
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 21:24:00 -
[4183]
-1 more |
Una D
Ex Coelis The Bantam Menace
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 21:38:00 -
[4184]
Ah I see that short term thinking still works real well at CCP. Props for trying to blame your customers too. That is known to provide good results.
I just hope that genious people behind his decision get fired once the economic inpact becomes obvious. Also isn't it strange how suddenly there is some new blogs (economic letter that hasn't been seen in quite a while for example). |
Guillame Herschel
Gallente Buffalo Soldiers
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 21:42:00 -
[4185]
Edited by: Guillame Herschel on 16/10/2008 21:42:45
Originally by: Vietone When was it ever encouraged?
Did CCP ever say "Hey, while your training that 34 day skill, you can leave your account inactive and not play or pay us. Have Fun when you come back!!!.
Yes, they did. But since the announcement, they edited the User Guide to remove that advice. First edit for the User Guide in five ****ing years!
Quote:
No they never advertised this remotely in anyway or encouraged it.
You are wrong. Go sit in the corner.
|
Slade Trillgon
Masuat'aa Matari Ushra'Khan
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 21:44:00 -
[4186]
I can say that I have not taken advantage of ghost training. I have only been here a year, so nothing in that time has kept me from keeping my payment going. But the idea of being able to finish off one skill if that so happened was a great comfort considering I still have about only one set/type of ships mastered at thist point
But it was something that I had not gotten used to so it will be much less painfull a transition for me
Maybe this will help newer players become more utilized by the older pilots in certain organizations. I don't know; maybe? But I can definately see some other angles then just purely raw cash.
Slade
|
NereSky
Gallente Trinity Nova Trinity Nova Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 21:53:00 -
[4187]
Originally by: NereSky
Originally by: NereSky
Originally by: Delos Korelian
Originally by: Jinx Barker
... ever since the "old" guard of the developers left active EVE online roles CCP customer service, CCP customer attunes, and general CCP attitude toward its player base has gone to shit.
Aint that the truth
Qft
|
Guillame Herschel
Gallente Buffalo Soldiers
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 21:54:00 -
[4188]
Originally by: Ramund Dont do Battleship V or Titan V if you dont want to, noone is forcing you.
*Ring*
*Ring*
*Ring*
Clue phone, it's for you. Battleship V is a pre-req for capitals and T2 battleships. You are forced to train that skill if you want to fly capitals or T2 battleships, even if you never actually fly a T1 battleship.
|
supr3m3justic3
Caldari Hakata Group
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 22:07:00 -
[4189]
Originally by: CCP t0rfifrans The bug that became a feature
On Monday, we released news that we are disabling äGhost Trainingô, the ability to train characters on inactive accounts. This resulted in strong reactions from the community as many people were routinely making use of it. We explained the matter in more detail and pointed out that this had been a bug in the original game code. Those of us who were involved in the process of making the decision and communicating it to the community did not realize this bug had been so accepted as a feature that it was listed as such in our own documentation on our own website.
How can we not know whatæs in our own documentation? Well, to be frank, it was a case of insufficient communication on our part between various teams û a regrettable mistake and hard lesson to learn at the expense of the trust youæve placed in us. Thereæs no way to spin it and we wonæt add insult to injury by trying to do so. It was a mistake on our part and for that we sincerely and humbly apologize.
Many would hope that in light of this we will decide not to cancel ghost training and keep it active as an option but weære cannot to do that. EVE is already one-of-a-kind in allowing players to progress their characters through offline skill training. We stand by our policy that if you want your character to progress in EVE, you should pay the subscription fee. The fact that so many people have been able to do so for several years was our own oversight. We know this change, and our misstep in telling you about it, has created some discontent and we hope that over time we can prove our committment to make EVE better than ever for you will be evident as you enjoy the fruits of our labor.
Torfi
LIES |
Moto42
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 22:17:00 -
[4190]
Originally by: Carsidava Nope, sorry. This doesn't wash.
If you disable skill training for inactive accounts, why aren't you also disabling market orders from inactive accounts? Why aren't you also disabling RP accumulation from inactive accounts? Why aren't you disabling dividend payouts to inactive accounts?
Why are only skill points being hit? Sorry CCP, this is an entirely unsatisfactory answer.
I totaly plan to take advantage of this fact now that I think about it.
Im gonna just farm RP and stuff for like 2 years on my inactive accounts, its even BETTER now that I dont ghost train on them because NOW I dont have to renew them even for a month to get a new skill.
This is so awesome. Thank you CCP!
|
|
supr3m3justic3
Caldari Hakata Group
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 22:19:00 -
[4191]
Originally by: Guillame Herschel Edited by: Guillame Herschel on 16/10/2008 21:42:45
Originally by: Vietone When was it ever encouraged?
Did CCP ever say "Hey, while your training that 34 day skill, you can leave your account inactive and not play or pay us. Have Fun when you come back!!!.
Yes, they did. But since the announcement, they edited the User Guide to remove that advice. First edit for the User Guide in five ****ing years!
Quote:
No they never advertised this remotely in anyway or encouraged it.
You are wrong. Go sit in the corner.
User guide, pre-edit |
Tae'Lin Hynd
Simply Planned
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 22:27:00 -
[4192]
Originally by: supr3m3justic3
Originally by: Guillame Herschel Edited by: Guillame Herschel on 16/10/2008 21:42:45
Originally by: Vietone When was it ever encouraged?
Did CCP ever say "Hey, while your training that 34 day skill, you can leave your account inactive and not play or pay us. Have Fun when you come back!!!.
Yes, they did. But since the announcement, they edited the User Guide to remove that advice. First edit for the User Guide in five ****ing years!
Quote:
No they never advertised this remotely in anyway or encouraged it.
You are wrong. Go sit in the corner.
User guide, pre-edit
Kind of funny how it only changed when they needed, kinda like the item DB. |
Chomin H'ak
The Trivenerate
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 22:28:00 -
[4193]
Originally by: Moto42
Originally by: Carsidava Nope, sorry. This doesn't wash.
If you disable skill training for inactive accounts, why aren't you also disabling market orders from inactive accounts? Why aren't you also disabling RP accumulation from inactive accounts? Why aren't you disabling dividend payouts to inactive accounts?
Why are only skill points being hit? Sorry CCP, this is an entirely unsatisfactory answer.
I totaly plan to take advantage of this fact now that I think about it.
Im gonna just farm RP and stuff for like 2 years on my inactive accounts, its even BETTER now that I dont ghost train on them because NOW I dont have to renew them even for a month to get a new skill.
This is so awesome. Thank you CCP!
THIS ^^ Now I can take 90 day breaks cause my buy/sell orders will last that long. What a savings |
Asith
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 22:47:00 -
[4194]
Originally by: Torah Hyman
Originally by: Cougem
Originally by: shoot me Ghost training has always been a winning feature of Eve that encourages people to re-subscribe to the game. When ever I get bored of the game, usually due to lack of any new content I set one of the ridiculously long skills which enables me to fly new ships if I return. Curiosity always gets the better of me and I always return. Now, if I knew that I would still have the same skills as when I un-subscribed I would take much longer breaks or perhaps not even return.
THIS!! This is such an incredibly good point.
Signed
/me waves a boot.ini card ,lest we not forget that one
signed |
Cosy Ceaon
Gallente Aliastra
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 23:07:00 -
[4195]
WTF CCP u post allot of blogs to covert this thing |
Tai Davion
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 23:08:00 -
[4196]
To all those who will quit over this. Farewell, take care, may good fortune smile on you and please remove yourself from the servers and do your part to clear up the lag.
Thank you and have a great day. |
10of10
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 23:12:00 -
[4197]
Originally by: Tai Davion To all those who will quit over this. Farewell, take care, may good fortune smile on you and please remove yourself from the servers and do your part to clear up the lag.
Thank you and have a great day.
CCP alt spotted ^^^^ |
Kheldon Fel
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 23:14:00 -
[4198]
Originally by: Tai Davion To all those who will quit over this. Farewell, take care, may good fortune smile on you and please remove yourself from the servers and do your part to clear up the lag.
Thank you and have a great day.
I actually created characters in every slot of all my accounts. Enjoy the added database load (which is apparently some kind of inexplicably huge detriment since CCP DBAs seem to be laughably inept). |
Corwain
Gallente DIE WITH HONOUR
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 23:26:00 -
[4199]
As this hundreds page thread is clearly demonstrated CCP doesn't care about complaints on the forums, so I thought I'd grow the thread and at the same time discuss what the best way to get a message to them (aside from permanantly cancelling the accounts that I've been letting lapse now and then to train month long skills.)
Email? Snail mail? Create a complaint petition? What do you guys think is the most effective way to complain in addition to cancelling accounts? |
supr3m3justic3
Caldari Hakata Group
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 23:30:00 -
[4200]
Originally by: Corwain As this hundreds page thread is clearly demonstrated CCP doesn't care about complaints on the forums, so I thought I'd grow the thread and at the same time discuss what the best way to get a message to them (aside from permanantly cancelling the accounts that I've been letting lapse now and then to train month long skills.)
Email? Snail mail? Create a complaint petition? What do you guys think is the most effective way to complain in addition to cancelling accounts?
Put a note on a pigeon's leg and let it deliver the message! |
|
10of10
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 23:30:00 -
[4201]
Edited by: 10of10 on 16/10/2008 23:30:43 They are reading this and it hasn't made a difference. They have even tried to hide it away, so I don't think they will listen to written complaints. |
Kara Rhane
Gallente Rhane's Research and Development Labs.
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 23:32:00 -
[4202]
Still waiting on a response to the 139 pages of players saying "wow this is a really bad idea, can we get points a, b, c and d confirmed and explained."
I run a number of accounts and have never ghost trained, I do however believe it would be a good thing to answer some of your clients questions since it's obviously not making the majority of EVE happy.
Respectfully,
-Kara
|
NereSky
Gallente Trinity Nova Trinity Nova Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 23:33:00 -
[4203]
Originally by: Corwain As this hundreds page thread is clearly demonstrated CCP doesn't care about complaints on the forums, so I thought I'd grow the thread and at the same time discuss what the best way to get a message to them (aside from permanantly cancelling the accounts that I've been letting lapse now and then to train month long skills.)
Email? Snail mail? Create a complaint petition? What do you guys think is the most effective way to complain in addition to cancelling accounts?
There is no effective way to complain unfortunately, i recently complained about a GM and all you get told is that they will forward the complaint to the 'leads' however you wont be told a)its received by the leads b) no confirmation that its actually looked at (although i was assured it will be) c) No feedback (i wasnt expecting to here whether any punitive measures would be done) but i would have expected to hear whether the complaint was 'upheld' or 'overturned' but i wont even get that,
So in short put a complaint in (in the form of a petition) but thats all u can do as u wont here anything else.
I believe that complaints received will never see the light of day and get buried under a Rug. |
Anig Browl
Caldari
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 23:57:00 -
[4204]
I guess this is the longest whine thread ever.
I stopped playing for a while due to financial problems and when I came back I didn't even notice I had benefited from any ghost training - I was probably training some level 3 skill when I stopped.
Sorry if this disrupts other people's plans, but basically you were farming, no? I was pretty upset yesterday because I was calculating my new ISK total and then I lost a ship and had to accept I wasn't going to make my target after all. Oh well.
Yeah, it should have been addressed a long time ago, it was uncool to let people get used to it for so long. Oh well...but those of you who knew about and made use of this feature managed to build up some great characters on the cheap, while those of us who just play a single character game saw no benefit.
I'd say the ghost trainers got the good part of the deal while it was going, and I know that some of you will make ISK or some real money by selling those characters. Congratulations, you got a benefit already. |
Nannu Who
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 23:58:00 -
[4205]
Originally by: 10of10 Edited by: 10of10 on 16/10/2008 23:30:43 They are reading this and it hasn't made a difference. They have even tried to hide it away, so I don't think they will listen to written complaints.
You say that, but CCP can't ignore two thousand letters at their office front door. |
Seriya
Caldari The Priory
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 23:58:00 -
[4206]
Utterly disgusted at how this thread has been buried, hidden on Eve General and buried under a sudden unprecidented surge of crappy dev blogs. Regardless of whether this is deliberate or not, it makes CCP look like villians. |
Asith
|
Posted - 2008.10.17 00:00:00 -
[4207]
Originally by: Anig Browl I guess this is the longest whine thread ever.
I stopped playing for a while due to financial problems and when I came back I didn't even notice I had benefited from any ghost training - I was probably training some level 3 skill when I stopped.
Sorry if this disrupts other people's plans, but basically you were farming, no? I was pretty upset yesterday because I was calculating my new ISK total and then I lost a ship and had to accept I wasn't going to make my target after all. Oh well.
Yeah, it should have been addressed a long time ago, it was uncool to let people get used to it for so long. Oh well...but those of you who knew about and made use of this feature managed to build up some great characters on the cheap, while those of us who just play a single character game saw no benefit.
I'd say the ghost trainers got the good part of the deal while it was going, and I know that some of you will make ISK or some real money by selling those characters. Congratulations, you got a benefit already.
heys its part of the game - its a good feature basically when you get bored of EVE (very often these days cos DEV ARE TOO BUSY MAKING Stuff THAT NOBODY REALLY CARES ABOUT) you can take a break train somethiong like cruiser 5 come back 20 days later fly a new ship and be happy
Now people will just quit |
Anig Browl
Caldari
|
Posted - 2008.10.17 00:10:00 -
[4208]
On a separate note, two short points:
1. CCP: Your motives don't bother me, but your execution does. Think how much drama you could have saved if the announcement had begun 'From next month, ...'. You know, if you're going to make a big change (even one I agree with!), give people a chance to respond - a one-time offer to swap a ghost-trained character with an alt or something. Retroactively classifying an advertised feature as a bug was stupid, because you insulted customers.
2. Departing players: I, too, need your stuff. Because it's been quite difficult competing with some of you on a single account. So if you want to throw a tantrum, what better way than by distorting the economy and contracting some of your stuff to a carebear? Seriously. Just...do it. I'll even mention you in my bio, with a line like 'We shall not see his like again'. |
Asith
|
Posted - 2008.10.17 00:15:00 -
[4209]
oh btw CCP if you think im going to reactivate my charcter just to carry on training think again, im going to wait till the day it would have ended then re sub him- ive already had 3 friends quit eve (last night) because of the way your treating us - I hope alot others are doing the same so this whole stunt backfires on you
Have a nice day! |
OmgzHappy
|
Posted - 2008.10.17 00:28:00 -
[4210]
Edited by: OmgzHappy on 17/10/2008 00:30:51 The reason I am not moving any accounts to power of 2 or doing anything other than the occasional timecard is. I dont know if eve will be around after the nano nerf.
The alterations to the webbifiers/ points on mwd is pathetic..(remember 5 fighter carrier nerf idea)
the cancelation of ghost training seems to be an attempt at pushing people into a 6 or 12 month subscription that some what binds people, altho you can cancel..
But when it comes to canceling your acc, its less likely you'll cancel your sub where as someone will just be too lazy to put another timecard on.
A screen shot of the CCP website has already been posted..
Depicting in the first half of the picture, CCP saying why they have had ghost training implemented in the first place..
The bottom half of the picture that they are now removing it.
That is just plained two faced.
The fact that a dev had come by and posted stating it was a pvp advantage is blantly lieing.
just how many battleships can I pvp with at once? sure I have triple widescreens and I synergy my mouse/keyboard across the network to another monitor the the right of those 3..
but thats just irc/ventrilo etc etc..
Anyways. CCP will be gaining subs and loosing subs. Its a stand off they should have never initiated.
Take me for example, im moving 3 acc into one acc, then never paying for the other 2 acc in any way ever again. sure they gained one steady sub, but at the loss of 2 other acc time carding up.
I'll cancel that sub if my officer web is halfed in range, like it is on the test server. Or changed at all for that matter.
No, you cant have my stuff. |
|
Valaba
|
Posted - 2008.10.17 00:28:00 -
[4211]
Edited by: Valaba on 17/10/2008 00:28:29
CCP your reasoning is players benefiting without active subscriptions.
Then that means all buy orders and sell orders on the market and also many other things need to be cancelled as well. Those players are benefiting while not having an active subscription !!!!! If you were truthful to your words, then you would include everything. But really this shows its only about greed.
You can't wait 5 years and just now decide to change it. This is the kind of crap which ****es people off and some to the point of cancelling accounts all together.
It was decisions like these that led me to leave SWG.
|
Valaba
|
Posted - 2008.10.17 00:35:00 -
[4212]
I just logged into Eve and found myself having no motivation to play.
Talk about a game ruiner.
|
ChaoticDemon
|
Posted - 2008.10.17 00:37:00 -
[4213]
I have used this feature on my alt to train a command ship pilot still don't have a command ship but can now fly one and saved about $45 on 3 month long skills also when I knew wouldn't have enough money on my credit card and didn't have isk to buy a gtc set a long skill that would end around time I got paid so I could reactivate then and not lose any training time I can understand not allowing it but should be given a grace period and or offer something as incentive to keep account active ie ability to train multiple chars and/or skill que |
HuntedMaster
|
Posted - 2008.10.17 00:50:00 -
[4214]
Originally by: Valaba
I just logged into Eve and found myself having no motivation to play.
Talk about a game ruiner.
yea same...though i do have all that extended grindind just to get tech 2 cruise ..or a hac.....or anything midly interesting to look forward to.
hurray for not being able to advance my troll by playing.....
Hurray.
|
Gabriel Virtus
Cassandra's Light Caeruleum Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.10.17 00:52:00 -
[4215]
Edited by: Gabriel Virtus on 17/10/2008 01:08:56 Going on 3 days that a technology company cannot manage to fix a "forum problem". Gee can you say hidden?
Can you say censorship?
This company is a complete joke. They actually must think we are all idiots.
The nature of the way ppl gain skills in EVE, with it taking literally a year to train a cap pilot, makes this FEATURE of the game essential. If I am not playing for months waiting to experience something new, fly a new ship/use new drones etc., ghost train so I am not CONSTANTLY paying for an account that is useless. Unlike any other MMOm EVE takes a very long time to train skills to get into other parts of the game. You can train 1 character per an account, and cannot change the speed you train (after learning skills of course) no matter how much you actively play. This feature of the game was essential to player enjoyment and encouraged players to have many alts (which do subscribe at the very least 6 months out of the year to change skills).
This sort of move just exemplifies CCP's utter disregard for its customers. The "service" I am getting, referred to in the joke of a dev blog, is crappy at best. That is before I have any actual troubles in the game ( like no insurance payouts or ships disappearing from stations ). They dont even buffer the decision with LONG AWAITED changes to the way skills a done. At least give ppl a skill que. -2 accounts
-GV |
Lutorian
|
Posted - 2008.10.17 00:56:00 -
[4216]
CCP. Prove to us its not greed. If you take this away, then give us something back in return.
Allow us to train our 3 characters at once since it has always been blatently obvious that our 2 other character slots are almost completely useless.
I know other players who read my proposal will probably die laughing since the odds of this change happening are virtually zero. What that really shows is that it really is all about the money for you all. Not players happiness.
This will backfire on you in the future. Some accounts will be hurt now, but future potential revenue is really where you are going to be hit hard. You might even gain profit in the short term, but it will not last.
Star Trek Online is starting to look at a little better all of a sudden.
|
Amarria Drezine
|
Posted - 2008.10.17 00:57:00 -
[4217]
Originally by: Gabriel Virtus Edited by: Gabriel Virtus on 17/10/2008 00:56:02 Going on 3 days that a technology company cannot manage to fix a "forum problem". Gee can you say hidden?
Can you say censorship?
signed |
MaximusDamage
|
Posted - 2008.10.17 01:13:00 -
[4218]
You just lost my trust which you had built up over 2 years of great updates and features, I know that wont go for much around your offices but maybe the minus 1 of my 2 accounts on your spreadsheets will.
Trying to hide this thread from the rest of the forum under the disguise of a technical problem. Although that wouldn't supprise me if it was the truth as after 5 years you still have not become competent in the art of patching the servers.
Poor show CCP. |
Christine Cormorante
Gallente Warped Mining
|
Posted - 2008.10.17 01:22:00 -
[4219]
Originally by: Lutorian
CCP. Prove to us its not greed. If you take this away, then give us something back in return.
Allow us to train our 3 characters at once since it has always been blatently obvious that our 2 other character slots are almost completely useless.
I know other players who read my proposal will probably die laughing since the odds of this change happening are virtually zero. What that really shows is that it really is all about the money for you all. Not players happiness.
This will backfire on you in the future. Some accounts will be hurt now, but future potential revenue is really where you are going to be hit hard. You might even gain profit in the short term, but it will not last.
Star Trek Online is starting to look at a little better all of a sudden.
You know, you bring to mind a very valid concern. I can't help but wonder what the surge in trial accounts for scout alts is going to be like in the coming months. I'm consolidating my accounts from 3 down to one. I regularly used one of the off-characters on my alt accounts to scout for one of my three mains on thier individual accounts. I won't have that luxury now as they're all on the same account taking up every slot.
I can't help but wonder how many scoutalt8473's and such we'll be seeing in the coming months. If ghost training accounts are such a burden on the database, its really going to be under a lot of pressure as those who close alt accounts and do happen to stick around, start creating trial scouts to do the same job thier paid alts used to do. LOL..... /me waits for the ability to create trials accounts to be removed. |
Staberind
|
Posted - 2008.10.17 01:33:00 -
[4220]
Well, back again to see if there is any "official" response, as opposed to some alt mouthpeice, there is some real stretching and comedy here... like comparison to other online games yeah, thats smart, when i go into eve and find rifters riding 3pic m0unt0rz & wearing lv 18 leather belts, i may agree that some comparison is viable, till then, meh... guess i'll be back tomorrow... |
|
Ein Spiegel
|
Posted - 2008.10.17 01:54:00 -
[4221]
Conspiracy?
Hidden threads?
Subterfuge?
A shadowy group wielding unimaginable power over enthralled masses?
...
This is just CCP alpha testing the new World of Darkness MMO. It seems they decided to focus on the Vampire characters first...
Seriously, though, I'm sure there's a Logical Explanation. Somewhere.
Without having to use Dominate 5 to make it work.
((If you understood any of that, for gods' sake, get out of the Camarilla now.)) |
Erimisha
Minmatar
|
Posted - 2008.10.17 02:04:00 -
[4222]
Originally by: Seriya Utterly disgusted at how this thread has been buried, hidden on Eve General and buried under a sudden unprecidented surge of crappy dev blogs. Regardless of whether this is deliberate or not, it makes CCP look like villians.
But we'll get to walk in stations soon!
OMG, I hope they hire different DBA's.. i can only imagine how they'll find a way for 3d avatars to hork up the database if INACTIVE accounts can harm it.. |
Thorliaron
Brutor tribe
|
Posted - 2008.10.17 02:04:00 -
[4223]
what a load of *****es in this thread. honestly.
you cant afford to have 2 accounts going at the same time but want to train both? tough shit yo. |
Kheldon Fel
|
Posted - 2008.10.17 02:20:00 -
[4224]
Originally by: Thorliaron what a load of *****es in this thread. honestly.
you cant afford to have 2 accounts going at the same time but want to train both? tough shit yo.
Look at how dumb you are. |
Thorliaron
Brutor tribe
|
Posted - 2008.10.17 02:24:00 -
[4225]
Edited by: Thorliaron on 17/10/2008 02:25:09
Originally by: Kheldon Fel
Originally by: Thorliaron what a load of *****es in this thread. honestly.
you cant afford to have 2 accounts going at the same time but want to train both? tough shit yo.
Look at how dumb you are.
whhaaaaaaaaambulance. quit the game already please. |
10of10
|
Posted - 2008.10.17 02:31:00 -
[4226]
Originally by: Thorliaron Edited by: Thorliaron on 17/10/2008 02:25:09
Originally by: Kheldon Fel
Originally by: Thorliaron what a load of *****es in this thread. honestly.
you cant afford to have 2 accounts going at the same time but want to train both? tough shit yo.
Look at how dumb you are.
whhaaaaaaaaambulance. quit the game already please.
What? a mooron spotted..... not another one |
Lord Monarch
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2008.10.17 02:34:00 -
[4227]
I have 3 unsubscribed accounts now :)
You see, i am very busy with life and had no time to play eve. And with the recent global financial crisis the AUD dropped to 65 US cents. That means that i would be paying around 75 dollars a month to play the game!
With the previous changes to timecards i can no longer afford to buy them with isk. They used to be 130-140mil for a 30 day card, and i had finally gotten some good things going to make isk, but alas because o f your stupid decision to screw with the time card system that was around for 5 years you ruined that avenue for me. Why though? You would still have received the same amount of real money. It was this kind of afford ability that enabled people to run multiple accounts simultaneously. YOU STILL RECEIVED THAT SAME AMOUNT OF REAL MONEY REGARDLESS!!!!!
Now i had my accounts subscribed on my credit card continuously for quite a long time. I rarely ghost trained but i thought it was a great "FEATURE" of this game. It makes absolute sense with the time passive manner of character advancement in this game. I had intended to resubscribe my three accounts and train them for a month, and then set a long skill like carrier V. I had planned to come back in December/January with some new abilities ready to go. With out this incentive i do not feel any 'compulsion' to come back.
I used the word compulsion because this game is structured to be time addictive.
There is a saying with interest rates that 'this was one interest rate hike too far' well this was one manipulative price gouge too far!
The combination of the current global financial situation, the very recent awful awful changes to the time card system, and finally this dishonest, dismissive, announcements of the 'bug' of ghost training have combined to force me to stop playing eve permanently. I sympathise with the situation in Iceland right now, it looks truly awful. But these recent decisions will not gain you any new customers. They will lose you many loyal and addicted veterans. These are the people who encouraged others to play the game with them.
It has not been your advertising that has gained new customers, it has been the good word of your long time players (i was one of them!). |
JorEl Tarasque
|
Posted - 2008.10.17 02:35:00 -
[4228]
Edited by: JorEl Tarasque on 17/10/2008 02:35:45 For 140 and counting pages everyone is right. This thread is a little hard to find.
(Funny, I came into the thread from another link and it showed 151 pages then. |
Thorliaron
Brutor tribe
|
Posted - 2008.10.17 02:36:00 -
[4229]
Please don't troll.Applebabe |
Erimisha
Minmatar
|
Posted - 2008.10.17 02:44:00 -
[4230]
Originally by: Kheldon Fel
Originally by: Thorliaron what a load of *****es in this thread. honestly.
you cant afford to have 2 accounts going at the same time but want to train both? tough shit yo.
Look at how dumb you are.
LOL qft.
Do you even know what is being discussed in this thread Thorl? |
|
Infinity Ziona
Extortive
|
Posted - 2008.10.17 02:56:00 -
[4231]
Seems fair enough to me. Rarely do you get something for free. If you did get free sp's be grateful.
Just because a companies marketing department uses a bug effect as a selling point (because it attracts players) doesnt automatically change it from unintended to intended.
An old Eve maxim which is often stated to me when I complain about something I think is unfair in EvE comes to mind, adapt. |
Raymond Sterns
Utopian Research I.E.L. The ENTITY.
|
Posted - 2008.10.17 03:00:00 -
[4232]
Originally by: Thorliaron what a load of *****es in this thread. honestly.
you cant afford to have 2 accounts going at the same time but want to train both? tough shit yo.
Post with your main, Mr. Crackbaby. |
Nadarius Chrome
Celestial Horizon Corp. Celestial Industrial Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.10.17 03:53:00 -
[4233]
Edited by: Nadarius Chrome on 17/10/2008 03:53:55 It has long since stopped being about the "Ghost Training"*. People will live without it even though I myself used it regularly on my main/only account. It's simply about how poorly CCP treats its customers.
Had this change been announced in a batch of other fixes, with an implementation date of a week or two away, there wouldn't have been anything like the scale of outrage. Instead, it was done in a "Guess what, here's some surprise *********, have a nice day." way that has pretty much demonstrated how little CCP management actually cares about the playerbase.
I myself have sat for 4 days considering my course of action, since my account was closed when this was announced (30 day skill, and a much-needed sanity break from Eve) and have decided I will give it 60 days before I fully make up my mind. It's just another nail in the coffin for me really. Warhammer beckons.
I imagine that whoever made this decision has told ALL CCP staff to stay WELL away from this thread, at least with their official characters, on pain of being put in the streets of Reykjavik with an "I caused the economic collapse" sign around their neck. That implies the decision came from pretty high up, or was at least endorsed by someone who is.
No doubt there's plenty of staff who don't agree with the way this has been (mis)handled, but who are simply not in a position to do anything about it.
*interesting term for it BTW CCP, kudos to the dev that thought that up. Sounds menacing and evil. I suppose simply calling it "Inactive Training" would have been far harder to demonize.
edit: Haha, even that term is censored. |
Dkiler
Dkiller Delta Force Corp. CORPVS DELICTI
|
Posted - 2008.10.17 03:54:00 -
[4234]
Ninjas cant catch you if your "Ghost Training" Oohwait
|
Shard Merchant
Minmatar
|
Posted - 2008.10.17 04:02:00 -
[4235]
I noticed they were able to advertise the blog about medals and certificates on login MOTD. So, its rather ironic that they caused more bad PR by trying to avoid bad news one one of their most visible PR tools. I don't know if that was a conscious decision, or somebody with really horrible priorities. |
Ezoran DuBlaidd
|
Posted - 2008.10.17 04:03:00 -
[4236]
Originally by: Thorliaron Edited by: Thorliaron on 17/10/2008 02:25:09
Originally by: Kheldon Fel
Originally by: Thorliaron what a load of *****es in this thread. honestly.
you cant afford to have 2 accounts going at the same time but want to train both? tough shit yo.
Look at how dumb you are.
whhaaaaaaaaambulance. quit the game already please.
if between all my accounts, i'm paying (annually) the equivalent of 3 or 4 accounts; then, what exactly was the crux of your so-called argument, again?
oh wait, it means you have nothing to emo-cry about.
so let's see, 3 or 4 accounts down to 0 or 1 account, vs an avid supporter such as yourself with your whole massive 1 account...
yes, ccp made the right choice in choosing to lose money. is that what your argument is? or do you even know what century we're in currently? i'm sorry, was that your mommy calling you out of the basement for supper? i hope so, because if you're not a kid or basement dweller... |
Ezoran DuBlaidd
|
Posted - 2008.10.17 04:05:00 -
[4237]
Originally by: Infinity Ziona Seems fair enough to me. Rarely do you get something for free. If you did get free sp's be grateful.
Just because a companies marketing department uses a bug effect as a selling point (because it attracts players) doesnt automatically change it from unintended to intended.
An old Eve maxim which is often stated to me when I complain about something I think is unfair in EvE comes to mind, adapt.
removing the *bug* and reinstating it once before, however, does make it intended. why would ccp reintroduce a *bug* after they'd already removed it? oh yeah, that means that CCP did not consider it a bug.
that's logic for ya -- something that makes sense.
|
10of10
|
Posted - 2008.10.17 04:05:00 -
[4238]
OMG jumpgate Evo FTW!!!!!!! |
Hammeroffire
|
Posted - 2008.10.17 04:23:00 -
[4239]
Well, In the past this would get perhaps 100 pages a day. now that it's "off" the official newsline [Not visible to the naked eye, unsurprisingly... good job CCP PR.] there are very few replies. There are less people to be enraged, and thus less responces.
Make no mistake, this is a negative responce to the "bug fix", as they call it.
Again, EVE at one point was a distinguished game. Now it is becoming similar to those cheap korean MMO's that sell things for cash...
Depressing, really.
It's pointless, unfair to customers, an obvious money grab that won't work to be frank, and I don't like it.
Enjoy your stock losses, idiots. |
Maurice MerleauPonty
|
Posted - 2008.10.17 04:47:00 -
[4240]
"Hey we're getting rid of ghost training right after we encouraged you to do power of two, just so you know. Oh and you have to buy longer GTC now."
"What?"
"Whoops sorry that announcement does not show up in the main forum in an obvious way anymore. However, check out our lovely industrial expansion, cgi cartoon about jamyl, and nifty certificate system. Isn't it mesmerizing?" |
|
Brigsby5987
Caldari 32nd Amarrian Imperial Navy Regiment.
|
Posted - 2008.10.17 05:00:00 -
[4241]
Originally by: Lord Monarch I have 3 unsubscribed accounts now :)
You see, i am very busy with life and had no time to play eve. And with the recent global financial crisis the AUD dropped to 65 US cents. That means that i would be paying around 75 dollars a month to play the game!
With the previous changes to timecards i can no longer afford to buy them with isk. They used to be 130-140mil for a 30 day card, and i had finally gotten some good things going to make isk, but alas because o f your stupid decision to screw with the time card system that was around for 5 years you ruined that avenue for me. Why though? You would still have received the same amount of real money. It was this kind of afford ability that enabled people to run multiple accounts simultaneously. YOU STILL RECEIVED THAT SAME AMOUNT OF REAL MONEY REGARDLESS!!!!!
Now i had my accounts subscribed on my credit card continuously for quite a long time. I rarely ghost trained but i thought it was a great "FEATURE" of this game. It makes absolute sense with the time passive manner of character advancement in this game. I had intended to resubscribe my three accounts and train them for a month, and then set a long skill like carrier V. I had planned to come back in December/January with some new abilities ready to go. With out this incentive i do not feel any 'compulsion' to come back.
I used the word compulsion because this game is structured to be time addictive.
There is a saying with interest rates that 'this was one interest rate hike too far' well this was one manipulative price gouge too far!
The combination of the current global financial situation, the very recent awful awful changes to the time card system, and finally this dishonest, dismissive, announcements of the 'bug' of ghost training have combined to force me to stop playing eve permanently. I sympathise with the situation in Iceland right now, it looks truly awful. But these recent decisions will not gain you any new customers. They will lose you many loyal and addicted veterans. These are the people who encouraged others to play the game with them.
It has not been your advertising that has gained new customers, it has been the good word of your long time players (i was one of them!).
bye I guess.
As far as the status of this thread... might as well lock it.
Ghost training is wrong, and shouldn't be allowed. That is how it is. Twist it anyway you want, but if your gonna login to your account, or your account is going to progress at all, you should be paying at all times.
If you cannot afford to pay every month, you need to cancel your accounts and sort out your life so that you can afford it.
CCP might change their mind on this to satisfy the loud whiners, but it still doesn't change the fact that you should have to pay for all services rendered. |
Corwain
Gallente DIE WITH HONOUR
|
Posted - 2008.10.17 05:06:00 -
[4242]
Originally by: Brigsby5987 Logged-off training is wrong, and shouldn't be allowed. That is how it is. Twist it anyway you want, but if your gonna login to your account, or your account is going to progress at all, you should be playing at all times.
If you cannot afford to play every minute, you need to cancel your accounts and sort out your life so that you can.
CCP might change their mind on this to satisfy the loud whiners, but it still doesn't change the fact that you should have to play to gain skills.
Some words changed, faulty logic was left intact however. |
Maurice MerleauPonty
|
Posted - 2008.10.17 05:19:00 -
[4243]
Originally by: Brigsby5987
If you cannot afford to pay every month, you need to cancel your accounts and sort out your life so that you can afford it.
CCP might change their mind on this to satisfy the loud whiners, but it still doesn't change the fact that you should have to pay for all services rendered.
Having a skill continue training until you decide to revive your interest in the game is hardly a service rendered. You're not logging in, can't fly with your corp, can't do missions, can't change to a different skill, etc
Ghost training was an incentive and a perk in what is a long-winded game. It appealed to people who for various reasons in their lives could not afford the time for endless grind just to have some continuity in the game. It revived interest for people who got bored with the game for a while.
Plenty of businesses offer something for free to ensure continued customer interest, and hence additional payment from customers in the long run. In MMO's the continuity of your character, i.e. that s/he progresses in SOME way is crucial in the perceptions of customers. Logged-in and paying players could still advance with strategic maneuvers and isk accrued in-game, for those who were ambivalent about the game or otherwise preoccupied, inadvertent or purposeful ghost training was a way to maintain some semblance of that continuity.
Bottom line: CCP tracked the wrong thing when assessing the market. They set up a game that encouraged alts and exploration of multiple careers. The number of people who might try out some alts on a staggered, periodic payment scale justify their waning yet continued interest to their own budgets with something like ghost-training. CCP thought these people love the game so damn much that they would buckle and pay EVERY MONTH for MULTIPLE accounts. Excluding the rich and the addicted hardcore fans, this is not the case. |
Digiblast
Minmatar The Collective Against ALL Authorities
|
Posted - 2008.10.17 05:23:00 -
[4244]
HEY... you remove one thing and don't implament another.?!?
Where's the balance you always talk about.
Does this mean you will also just remove local? This games need to get more pro.!
And how about adding auto training, so I can just pay for the accounts and don't worry at all that I'm not training anything!?
But my Corporation EvE educated ingame market financial guy just announced me that you will lose far more then you will gain on this.! |
Ecco Storm
|
Posted - 2008.10.17 05:42:00 -
[4245]
So let me get this straight. We're supposed to pay our monthly subs so, ya know, we can play this game. If we shut our accounts down our characters should get shut down as well just like 99.9% of all the other games on the market right? People are complaining in upwards of 140 pages on this? You've got to be kidding me.
The sense of entitlement is f'ing nauseating. How about the holier than thous get off their ****** ponies and stop trying to convince us this is ANYTHING other than them being cheap and wanting free stuff. Christ I can't believe this is even a bloody argument. |
CHAOS100
Black Plague.
|
Posted - 2008.10.17 05:44:00 -
[4246]
I am really tired of CCP's PR style. I don't know if this is typical in Iceland, but the whole PR style of attempting to hide any controversial event simply does not work. I don't know if it was a change of corporate culture after CCP and EVE grew in numbers, but it has made me lose respect for CCP.
Start treating your customers with respect and actually be open and honest from the start, before problems become called out and unable to be hidden, so you aren't forced to start damage control of terrible PR. The whole t20 thing was a debacle, deleting any reference and handing out bans despite widespread knowledge.
Now when you announce a somewhat major change to game/payment mechanics you don't make it very advertised to try to minimize its possible response. Now when there is a major response after the posts being tossed around, locked, edited, you make a dev blog to explain the reasoning.
I'm not asking the change to be reversed because I know it wont happen. CCP wants to stick with their decision because although it is harsh they hope it will eventually blow over and somehow they hope they will get a greater gain from this than the negative factors.
What I am asking is to make these changes and reasons more visible from the start, and less censoring. And more than 48 hours notice would be nice too. |
Rethie
Caldari
|
Posted - 2008.10.17 05:55:00 -
[4247]
Originally by: Ecco Storm So let me get this straight. We're supposed to pay our monthly subs so, ya know, we can play this game. If we shut our accounts down our characters should get shut down as well just like 99.9% of all the other games on the market right? People are complaining in upwards of 140 pages on this? You've got to be kidding me.
The sense of entitlement is f'ing nauseating. How about the holier than thous get off their ****** ponies and stop trying to convince us this is ANYTHING other than them being cheap and wanting free stuff. Christ I can't believe this is even a bloody argument.
But the fact is you don't entirely shut down if unsubbed, Your market orders continue, Your Manufacturing allocations continue, Your research continues, Your invention continues, Your contracts continue, Your pos existence continues until unfueled, etc, what else is left out? Just your intelligence growth will stall. The might as well remove any active functions from our characters whilst offline or unsubbed to be balanced and fair. Saying that it's a bug (removed and re-instated once) and yet advertising it as a feature to win long term player attraction is just outright hypocrisy. |
Lysander Kaldenn
Viper Intel Squad Sons of Tangra
|
Posted - 2008.10.17 06:09:00 -
[4248]
Edited by: Lysander Kaldenn on 17/10/2008 06:09:54
Originally by: Lord Monarch I have 3 unsubscribed accounts now :)
You see, i am very busy with life and had no time to play eve. And with the recent global financial crisis the AUD dropped to 65 US cents. That means that i would be paying around 75 dollars a month to play the game!
With the previous changes to timecards i can no longer afford to buy them with isk. They used to be 130-140mil for a 30 day card, and i had finally gotten some good things going to make isk, but alas because o f your stupid decision to screw with the time card system that was around for 5 years you ruined that avenue for me. Why though? You would still have received the same amount of real money. It was this kind of afford ability that enabled people to run multiple accounts simultaneously. YOU STILL RECEIVED THAT SAME AMOUNT OF REAL MONEY REGARDLESS!!!!!
Now i had my accounts subscribed on my credit card continuously for quite a long time. I rarely ghost trained but i thought it was a great "FEATURE" of this game. It makes absolute sense with the time passive manner of character advancement in this game. I had intended to resubscribe my three accounts and train them for a month, and then set a long skill like carrier V. I had planned to come back in December/January with some new abilities ready to go. With out this incentive i do not feel any 'compulsion' to come back.
I used the word compulsion because this game is structured to be time addictive.
There is a saying with interest rates that 'this was one interest rate hike too far' well this was one manipulative price gouge too far!
The combination of the current global financial situation, the very recent awful awful changes to the time card system, and finally this dishonest, dismissive, announcements of the 'bug' of ghost training have combined to force me to stop playing eve permanently. I sympathise with the situation in Iceland right now, it looks truly awful. But these recent decisions will not gain you any new customers. They will lose you many loyal and addicted veterans. These are the people who encouraged others to play the game with them.
It has not been your advertising that has gained new customers, it has been the good word of your long time players (i was one of them!).
Ummm. I think what you are describing is EXACTLY what CCP wants to stop. You get carrier 5 (or whatever super long skill)on 3 accounts for free? How is that fair to those of us who pay for this game and power through the long skills instead of ghosting them? |
Rethie
Caldari
|
Posted - 2008.10.17 06:25:00 -
[4249]
In reply to this http://myeve.eve-online.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&bid=592 we are still progressing, just not in skill.
This
CCP would do better tracking all the unsubbed noob accounts and emailing them with a notification that the accounts will terminate in 30 day ticker, somewhat like the can timer. Putting in the trial account notes that they remain active for 30 days grace period after trial has expired. This would free db space and stats.
|
Ecco Storm
|
Posted - 2008.10.17 06:29:00 -
[4250]
Originally by: Rethie But the fact is you don't entirely shut down if unsubbed, Your market orders continue, Your Manufacturing allocations continue, Your research continues, Your invention continues, Your contracts continue, Your pos existence continues until unfueled, etc, what else is left out? Just your intelligence growth will stall. The might as well remove any active functions from our characters whilst offline or unsubbed to be balanced and fair. Saying that it's a bug (removed and re-instated once) and yet advertising it as a feature to win long term player attraction is just outright hypocrisy.
The only point I'll ever give anyone on this topic is how CCP presents stuff like this. They have a long history of it and it sucks but after 5+ years I don't think they'll change much in that regard.
That said, you're saying because your character is still a part of a larger dynamic world you should reap all the benefits for not paying for your account? Stop it, seriously just stop it. Stop trying to justify not paying for something. You're throwing all this other crap around like it's something to be considered. It isn't. If they went further and removed your existence on the market, in your corp and on your POS then I would say exactly the same.
The bottom line is if you're not paying for your account then your character shouldn't be allowed to train. I haven't actively played EVE in more than a few months but have kept all my accounts active and current because I know I'll be back to play and don't want to lose the training time. Would you, in good conscious, tell me that I should set long skill trains and walk away from month to month while reaping all the benefits and paying nothing?
Again, I'll just say that the sense of entitlement is mind boggling. The levels that people will go to to try and justify not paying for something is disgusting. |
|
Yakumo Smith
Gallente When Darkness Falls
|
Posted - 2008.10.17 06:32:00 -
[4251]
Still having problems fixing this thread and getting it back where it belongs?
Or maybe you've never tried?
|
Seth Vorlar
|
Posted - 2008.10.17 07:01:00 -
[4252]
Originally by: Ecco Storm
Originally by: Rethie But the fact is you don't entirely shut down if unsubbed, Your market orders continue, Your Manufacturing allocations continue, Your research continues, Your invention continues, Your contracts continue, Your pos existence continues until unfueled, etc, what else is left out? Just your intelligence growth will stall. The might as well remove any active functions from our characters whilst offline or unsubbed to be balanced and fair. Saying that it's a bug (removed and re-instated once) and yet advertising it as a feature to win long term player attraction is just outright hypocrisy.
The only point I'll ever give anyone on this topic is how CCP presents stuff like this. They have a long history of it and it sucks but after 5+ years I don't think they'll change much in that regard.
That said, you're saying because your character is still a part of a larger dynamic world you should reap all the benefits for not paying for your account? Stop it, seriously just stop it. Stop trying to justify not paying for something. You're throwing all this other crap around like it's something to be considered. It isn't. If they went further and removed your existence on the market, in your corp and on your POS then I would say exactly the same.
The bottom line is if you're not paying for your account then your character shouldn't be allowed to train. I haven't actively played EVE in more than a few months but have kept all my accounts active and current because I know I'll be back to play and don't want to lose the training time. Would you, in good conscious, tell me that I should set long skill trains and walk away from month to month while reaping all the benefits and paying nothing?
Again, I'll just say that the sense of entitlement is mind boggling. The levels that people will go to to try and justify not paying for something is disgusting.
WEe have to pay for every f....ing thing on this f...ing planet and YES we are upset to get treaten like shit for money!!!! Especialy ppl like you make this planet a shithole for others!!!! Economy cools down on the world, what do you think, will we go get something to eat or play eve ha ??? CCP nearly doubbled the price for playing in the last 6 month so go and f... yourself!!!! |
Sargeant HAmmer
Caldari Hammers Academy
|
Posted - 2008.10.17 07:04:00 -
[4253]
140 pages .... doesnt that show something? |
Corwain
Gallente DIE WITH HONOUR
|
Posted - 2008.10.17 07:06:00 -
[4254]
Originally by: Ecco Storm So let me get this straight. We're supposed to pay our monthly subs so, ya know, we can play this game. If we shut our accounts down our characters should get shut down as well just like 99.9% of all the other games on the market right? People are complaining in upwards of 140 pages on this? You've got to be kidding me.
The sense of entitlement is f'ing nauseating. How about the holier than thous get off their ****** ponies and stop trying to convince us this is ANYTHING other than them being cheap and wanting free stuff. Christ I can't believe this is even a bloody argument.
We pay our monthly subs so we can LOG IN. We don't pay for them to maintain our character. You're not complaining now, but what happens when CCP goes a step farther and deletes accounts inactive for a week or a month?
Howabout CCP makes you only train when logged in? How fun would that be? I mean all the other MMOs make you log in to level, right? Howabout you have to complete agent missions to gain skills? Sound fun to you? |
DJ Geist
|
Posted - 2008.10.17 07:13:00 -
[4255]
Originally by: Ecco Storm
Originally by: Rethie
Again, I'll just say that the sense of entitlement is mind boggling. The levels that people will go to to try and justify not paying for something is disgusting.
So when people call their internet provider and complain that they shouldn't have to pay for the 4 days out of the month when the internet was out, it's disgusting?
When magazine subscriptions offer you discounts as incentives to return to the subscription, they are pandering to disgusting people with some distorted sense of entitlement?
When you rent movies and a business lets you hold on to the movie for a few days past the day when you were supposed to return the movie, the fact that this allows renters to have the movie for free past the time they paid for it is disgusting?
...seriously all of you who are on a high horse equivocating that ghost training is begging to have something for free, get off of it. People pay regular subscriptions for their mains. People ghost train with periodic GTC and occasional ghost training based on waning interest, forgetfulness, or strategy (depends on the person). CCP got greedy and now all the elite CCP asskissers come out of the woodwork. |
Ecco Storm
|
Posted - 2008.10.17 07:18:00 -
[4256]
Originally by: Seth Vorlar WEe have to pay for every f....ing thing on this f...ing planet and YES we are upset to get treaten like shit for money!!!! Especialy ppl like you make this planet a shithole for others!!!! Economy cools down on the world, what do you think, will we go get something to eat or play eve ha ??? CCP nearly doubbled the price for playing in the last 6 month so go and f... yourself!!!!
So basically you think you deserve free stuff. Am I hearing you right? Why is the fact that I'm paying for my accounts and thinking others should do likewise making "this planet a shithole for others"? The logic is astounding mate.
Here's another thought. The economy cools down world wide .. who is keeping the CCP employees afloat? Are they Blizzard who is swimming in so much cash they can just afford to burn money? EVE almost didn't make it when it first came out. The employees didn't get paid for several months at one point to bring you the game you're playing right now. Yet you, child, are sitting here with a holier than thou attitude thinking you are entitled to free stuff, entitled to free benefits and entitled to rant about it when its taken away.
It's amazing. Those with a sense of entitlement always have some flawed reasoning behind their crap trying to justify their actions. OMG THE ECONOMY IS FAILING! Here's a novel concept, shut your account off if you can't play and come back when you're ready. Don't expect handouts. Rant all you want sunshine but face it, you're just another spoiled child wanting something for nothing while every other player that is paying for their accounts are looking on at you in disgust. |
War Bear
Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams
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Posted - 2008.10.17 07:23:00 -
[4257]
Originally by: Corwain We pay our monthly subs so we can LOG IN. We don't pay for them to maintain our character. You're not complaining now, but what happens when CCP goes a step farther and deletes accounts inactive for a week or a month?
Howabout CCP makes you only train when logged in? How fun would that be? I mean all the other MMOs make you log in to level, right? Howabout you have to complete agent missions to gain skills? Sound fun to you?
You pay for the whole package sparky I'm afraid. Your money pays for pretty much everything CCP does. If CCP went that extra step then they lose a customer who might have come back a year or more later. Hell I left the game for two years ('04 and '05) but came back and picked up where I left off. It doesn't negate the fact that your account shouldn't have any forward momentum while its shut down.
On your second point you're trying to change the argument. CCP's training system allows you to train offline while your account is active. If your sub stops then your training shouldn't continue. What's the problem exactly other than you not getting free stuff? Other than people exploiting the system and getting multiple months of training for free? Do you honestly feel that you're entitled to that? Really? |
Kerfira
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Posted - 2008.10.17 07:26:00 -
[4258]
Originally by: Sargeant HAmmer 140 pages .... doesnt that show something?
Yeah.... It shows that people cry and whine a lot when they're not being given free stuff they feel 'entitled' to....
It also shows that people aren't serious about quitting. If they were, they'd just do so and maybe biomass their characters. People who care enough to post 'I Quit' posts will by and large resubscribe (if they ever unsubscribed at all)...
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DJ Geist
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Posted - 2008.10.17 07:27:00 -
[4259]
Originally by: Ecco Storm
Originally by: Seth Vorlar
It's amazing. Those with a sense of entitlement always have some flawed reasoning behind their crap trying to justify their actions. OMG THE ECONOMY IS FAILING! Here's a novel concept, shut your account off if you can't play and come back when you're ready. Don't expect handouts. Rant all you want sunshine but face it, you're just another spoiled child wanting something for nothing while every other player that is paying for their accounts are looking on at you in disgust.
You keep bandying about this term 'entitlement' as if it makes sense in this context, but it doesn't.
Eve is a timesink game, like all mmo's. It needs paying players to stay aflot, and it may even need those players to explore the use of alt's to stay afloat. When the time-sink aspects of the game alienate players so much that progressing seems too futile or too expensive, the MMO company has alientaed its player base. Eve customers were justifiably iffy about the game mechanics given extremely long-train skills and the fact that you're different characters can't independently progress on one account, but players perceived the FEATURE of ghost training as a kind of conciliation of this. Now that the feature has been nerfed, the game appears to be trying to fleece its members into paying a lot for a game that time and money-sinks players excessively. For this reason, players have a right to complain, they are not children for doing so, and I hope they exercise their economic vote by choosing another mmo. So stop equivocating over what exactly is 'free' here, stop launching ad hominems at legitimate points that have been raised, and try to pay attention to at least some of the nuance of why customers may be justifiably outraged over this. |
Lord Fitz
Project Amargosa
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Posted - 2008.10.17 08:37:00 -
[4260]
Originally by: DJ Geist (Sarcasm) you know, 14 day trial accounts should be banned as well. Its basically pre-subscription ghost training. The vast majority of eve characters probably started with these scandalous, time-begging, freeloading accounts. Its pathetic really, I don't even understand why free trials exist. Why the hell would a BUSINESS give out something for FREE? Can you imagine?
But wait, Ghost training accounts place no load on the server, and are unable to log in, these vicious trial accounts can ! What an outrage !
Originally by: CCP t0rfifrans CCP is a greedy money chewing monster
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Crayathan
Gallente Alpha Industries
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Posted - 2008.10.17 08:38:00 -
[4261]
Originally by: DJ Geist (Sarcasm) you know, 14 day trial accounts should be banned as well. Its basically pre-subscription ghost training. The vast majority of eve characters probably started with these scandalous, time-begging, freeloading accounts. Its pathetic really, I don't even understand why free trials exist. Why the hell would a BUSINESS give out something for FREE? Can you imagine?
Its like a big juicey worm on a hook
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Cutesmile
Pator Tech School
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Posted - 2008.10.17 08:38:00 -
[4262]
Edited by: Cutesmile on 17/10/2008 08:43:56
Originally by: Catherine Frasier
Originally by: Zinnn Perhaps you didn't read that the china server already got that fix a while back and CCP said it would not be implemented in Tranquility
As has been pointed out before, repeatedly, the statement was made that the change only affected Serenity at that time. It was never stated (nor was it even hinted) that it would never be changed on TQ. (In fact, if you ask me, that should have been a very clear sign that CCP was not exactly thrilled with ghost training.)
In year 2006: Build 27121 to 27912 addresses REVELATIONS Patch Notes
Miscellaneous: "On the Serenity server, skills no longer train when the owning account is deactivated. Tranquility is not affected by this change."
Plus in forum > CCP employee said, we will never change this in TQ
So, another lie
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BLACK D0G
Garoun Investment Bank
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Posted - 2008.10.17 08:42:00 -
[4263]
fine with no ghost training, please respond concerning how you are going to stop all other ghost activites such as market, RP and contracts etc.
The ghost training affects your pocket, the other things affect ours so lets have a little balance please.
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Crayathan
Gallente Alpha Industries
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Posted - 2008.10.17 08:44:00 -
[4264]
Originally by: BLACK D0G fine with no ghost training, please respond concerning how you are going to stop all other ghost activites such as market, RP and contracts etc.
The ghost training affects your pocket, the other things affect ours so lets have a little balance please.
Totally agree, but i think you need a little buffer on it as sometimes i don't realise mine have expired for 2 days so maybe after 7 days all market/rp stuff and what ever else you had going on is canceled or suspended?
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Braenca
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Posted - 2008.10.17 08:49:00 -
[4265]
I can't beleive no-one has said this yet...
NEGATIVE GHOST-TRAINER, THE PATTERN IS FULL!
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Cutesmile
Pator Tech School
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Posted - 2008.10.17 08:49:00 -
[4266]
Edited by: Cutesmile on 17/10/2008 08:50:51
Originally by: BLACK D0G fine with no ghost training, please respond concerning how you are going to stop all other ghost activites such as market, RP and contracts etc.
The ghost training affects your pocket, the other things affect ours so lets have a little balance please.
Totally agree. Plus If should be CCP make lag balancing, we need AFK kicker after 30 minutes. Cloak in AFK make lag. We need time counter against for AFK players.
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Flinchey
Amarr ANZAC ALLIANCE Southern Cross Alliance
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Posted - 2008.10.17 08:56:00 -
[4267]
Originally by: N'tek alar
Originally by: Flinchey
Originally by: N'tek alar
Originally by: Sargeant HAmmer 140 pages .... doesnt that show something?
Yes, It shows that the eve community is full of whiny, *****y cheapskates who're throwing a temper tantrum because they aren't getting their free toys NOW!!!
It also shows that people think that repeating the same 4-5 arguments over and over and over a couple thousand times makes them more valid.
Ooooooh, Did i mention it shows that the eve community is full of whiny, *****y cheapskates?
and if you didn't also notice there's at least a few hundred cancelled subscriptions it also shows that apparently the MAJORITY of the eve players are whiny *****y cheapskates
repeating the same arguments by hundreds of different people, yes, definitely makes them more valid
im sorry but, N'tek alar, you, are the minority here.
Also, a few hundred accounts is not a majority of a few hundred thousand.
Did you notice how the majority have NOT posted?
Oh and...
The earth is flat. The earth is flat. The earth is flat. The earth is flat. The earth is flat. The earth is flat. The earth is flat. The earth is flat. The earth is flat. The earth is flat. The earth is flat. The earth is flat. The earth is flat. The earth is flat. The earth is flat. The earth is flat.
Hey look! The earth is flat!
sooooo you're a business running on a subscription based system
you suddenly lose a few hundred (if not 1000+, i really haven't been keeping track) accounts on said subscription... you're going to see this loss of thousands of dollars per month of revenue and just shrug it off? or are you going to try your hardest to get that revenue back?
not to mention lots of people dont even know about it (not everyone reads the news feeds you know) i brought it up in guild chat and pretty much everyone who wasn't afk flipped out "what wtf are you talking about what? no! thats just stupid"
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Mithrantir Ob'lontra
Gallente Ixion Defence Systems
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Posted - 2008.10.17 08:59:00 -
[4268]
Originally by: Lord Fitz
Originally by: Ecco Storm I've yet to hear one solid REASON other than "we want it, it isn't fair" from anyone in this crowd.
Then you're not listening.
The reason why it's has been a good idea for them to have all these years is because it creates and incentive for players who have 'quit' to reactivate their accounts. Running a corp I lost count of the number of people who I saw quit and come back a few months later because they wondered what it would be like with the skill that finished while they were away. I really doubt any of them would have returned without it.
I object not because it will affect any of my training (I've had 3 accounts active for over 4 years now). But because I think it will negatively affect the number of players in the game, and CCP's revenue.
I also object because the 'reasons' given were a steaming pile of bullshit. If they just came out and said they wanted more money, or even raised the subscription price, I would not have a problem with that. I also haven't had any problem with ANY of the game play changes, which have generally been responsive to player feedback.
The handling of this issue has been a complete farce.
Money? This is not about money for me, I really couldn't give a crap if the subscription was twice what it is.
Are you really believing what you are saying here?
The incentive to come back to the game after a year or even 6 months, is not the fact that you may have trained a measly skill of 1 month (we are talking about a lv5 of a skill you already have it to lv4).
It's the fact that you know that your character still exists and is the same old one you left alongside with the game, with all his assets. Something no other MMO gives you as far as I know.
The reason one comes back is because he likes the game deep down and just got nostalgic for the people he knows through this game. All the excuses about the incentive a skill can provide to someone, who really quit the game, is just plain old bullshit.
The ghost training that was allowed until recently was being overused by a number of people not because they couldn't play on a regural or semi-regural basis, but because they wanted to have a fully grown and advanced character with minimal costs.
That is what forced CCP to disable it. So I guess if you and the rest want to vent at someone, you better start looking for the ones who overused this so called feature (while CCP devs have multiple times in the past said it was a bug that was left untouched as a gift of sorts) and forced CCP to revoke it.
You are the ones to blame and not CCP. ------- Nobody can be exactly like me. Even I have trouble doing it. |
Cutesmile
Pator Tech School
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Posted - 2008.10.17 09:07:00 -
[4269]
Edited by: Cutesmile on 17/10/2008 09:09:12 See it. Here is the fast money CCP smart guys. Falling population on server. They lost over +7k subscriber under two day. Bravo and lot of alt training not ended yet, more lost coming.
http://eve.coldfront.net/status/
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Crayathan
Gallente Alpha Industries
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Posted - 2008.10.17 09:10:00 -
[4270]
Edited by: Crayathan on 17/10/2008 09:11:19
Originally by: Cutesmile See it. Here is the fast money CCP smart guys. Falling population on server. They lost over +7k subscriber under two day. Bravo and lot of alt training not ended yet, more lost coming.
http://glacier.coldfront.net/eve/images/tranquility-week.png
Your logic is flawed, as it went up for the 2 days before, so it could be natural up's and downs. Better to use a long term graph
http://glacier.coldfront.net/eve/images/tranquility-month.png
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Flinchey
Amarr ANZAC ALLIANCE Southern Cross Alliance
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Posted - 2008.10.17 09:11:00 -
[4271]
Originally by: Cutesmile Edited by: Cutesmile on 17/10/2008 09:09:12 See it. Here is the fast money CCP smart guys. Falling population on server. They lost over +7k subscriber under two day. Bravo and lot of alt training not ended yet, more lost coming.
http://eve.coldfront.net/status/
can't view that picture.
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Nate D
Hell's Rejects
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Posted - 2008.10.17 09:19:00 -
[4272]
Originally by: Crayathan Edited by: Crayathan on 17/10/2008 09:11:19
Originally by: Cutesmile See it. Here is the fast money CCP smart guys. Falling population on server. They lost over +7k subscriber under two day. Bravo and lot of alt training not ended yet, more lost coming.
http://glacier.coldfront.net/eve/images/tranquility-week.png
Your logic is flawed, as it went up for the 2 days before, so it could be natural up's and downs. Better to use a long term graph
http://glacier.coldfront.net/eve/images/tranquility-month.png
There's a problem with Cold Front's status tracker. http://eve-offline.net/?server=tranquility shows no significant change in population.
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Doomsday
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Posted - 2008.10.17 09:24:00 -
[4273]
Edited by: Doomsday on 17/10/2008 09:25:20 I don't care about the changes. Its CCP's world and they create the rules. We will see, if the changes have positive effect for CCP's wallet. But what i see is, that a player taking a break from EVE will not come back.
At the moment, when you take an EVE break, you switch on a long training so when you come back, the time not playing eve is not wasted completely. Now its different. Your char stays at the training point you left the game - just like every other MMO. But here is the difference. In an other MMO you are able to compensate this (maybe)6 month. Not in equipment, but training. A skilled MMOler will power level his 6 month behind char in a reasonable amount of time. In EVE this does not work. If you have stayed off training you are missing you complete training time and there is no way to compensate this (like leveling 7x24 in other games). So i think for many people there is no reason to come back to EVE after a break.
An example. Your are off for RL issues. You can't play for the next 1 or 2 month. you switch on a long skill training in the hope you come back. At the time the skill expires, you notice that you need to stay off longer. So now buy a GTC or do a 1 month subscription and switch skill training (money for CCP). You can repeat that in the hope to come back and have a skilled char. Now this option has gone. So you can keep the subscription, never come back or accept that you have lost a lot of training time with no way to compensate.
Lets see, how the community accepts his.
BTW: I think the real money makers are now our farmers. I think many will try to buy ISK to keep all there accounts running.
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Najenna
Minmatar Caldari Deep Space Ventures Arcane Alliance
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Posted - 2008.10.17 09:40:00 -
[4274]
Well I have to say this is a very bad move on C.C.P. part and they will see it in their wallets. I am the type of person that believes in the phrase " An eye for an eye" So I say we all get in our capitals ships and self destruct and crash the server. Think about 10 thousand people in 1 system all self destruct = server crash..
They want to take from us... We take from them. Keep Crashing the server till the damn thing breaks. C.C.P. needs to realise they need us more than we need them. I have seen quite a few games coming out that will blow Eve away and I really hate sayig that seeing that I have spent 6 years playing eve faithfully but taking this feature out is just stupid and very wrong.
Now I know there are people that are all for the change and will tell me where the door is and say can they have my stuff. Well hell no its my stuff and it will all stay in my hanger and die with the server. my 2 cents.
CRASH THE SERVER.......CRASH THE SERVER!!!!!
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Gara Al'Malik
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Posted - 2008.10.17 09:46:00 -
[4275]
Originally by: Najenna Well I have to say this is a very bad move on C.C.P. part and they will see it in their wallets. I am the type of person that believes in the phrase " An eye for an eye" So I say we all get in our capitals ships and self destruct and crash the server. Think about 10 thousand people in 1 system all self destruct = server crash..
I support this idea. Everyone, self destruct your capital ships! And also all ships with expensive fitting. Just tell me the system and I'll be there in my salvager *cough* I mean my expensive ship that I'm about to blow up.
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Cutesmile
Pator Tech School
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Posted - 2008.10.17 09:51:00 -
[4276]
Originally by: Gara Al'Malik
Originally by: Najenna Well I have to say this is a very bad move on C.C.P. part and they will see it in their wallets. I am the type of person that believes in the phrase " An eye for an eye" So I say we all get in our capitals ships and self destruct and crash the server. Think about 10 thousand people in 1 system all self destruct = server crash..
I support this idea. Everyone, self destruct your capital ships! And also all ships with expensive fitting. Just tell me the system and I'll be there in my salvager *cough* I mean my expensive ship that I'm about to blow up.
Beggar why beg always for something stuff ? Go to work homeless. ;)
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BIind
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Posted - 2008.10.17 09:52:00 -
[4277]
Originally by: Mithrantir Ob'lontra The incentive to come back to the game after a year or even 6 months, is not the fact that you may have trained a measly skill of 1 month (we are talking about a lv5 of a skill you already have it to lv4).
Don't tell me what my incentive for returning is or isn't.
Quote: It's the fact that you know that your character still exists and is the same old one you left alongside with the game, with all his assets. Something no other MMO gives you as far as I know.
What are you talking about? Name one MMO that deletes characters after a period of inactivity.
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Stormwind Bloodfeather
Minmatar Sogdian Traders Inc
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Posted - 2008.10.17 09:53:00 -
[4278]
Originally by: Gara Al'Malik
Originally by: Najenna Well I have to say this is a very bad move on C.C.P. part and they will see it in their wallets. I am the type of person that believes in the phrase " An eye for an eye" So I say we all get in our capitals ships and self destruct and crash the server. Think about 10 thousand people in 1 system all self destruct = server crash..
I support this idea. Everyone, self destruct your capital ships! And also all ships with expensive fitting. Just tell me the system and I'll be there in my salvager *cough* I mean my expensive ship that I'm about to blow up.
damn I thought I was gonna sneak my salvager err um... faction fitted BS there!
Stormwind
In EVE, your only friend is your ship and it's weapons. All others are the enemy! |
DeODokktor
Dark Templars The Fonz Presidium
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Posted - 2008.10.17 09:58:00 -
[4279]
Edited by: DeODokktor on 17/10/2008 09:59:12
Originally by: BIind
Originally by: Mithrantir Ob'lontra
It's the fact that you know that your character still exists and is the same old one you left alongside with the game, with all his assets. Something no other MMO gives you as far as I know.
What are you talking about? Name one MMO that deletes characters after a period of inactivity.
LOL, yea... People fighting the cause with non-valid arguments ;P.... They get so much sphel from companys giving false spin on everything that they feel they need to take part ;P
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Cutesmile
Pator Tech School
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Posted - 2008.10.17 09:59:00 -
[4280]
Edited by: Cutesmile on 17/10/2008 10:00:38
Originally by: BIind
Originally by: Mithrantir Ob'lontra The incentive to come back to the game after a year or even 6 months, is not the fact that you may have trained a measly skill of 1 month (we are talking about a lv5 of a skill you already have it to lv4).
Don't tell me what my incentive for returning is or isn't.
Quote: It's the fact that you know that your character still exists and is the same old one you left alongside with the game, with all his assets. Something no other MMO gives you as far as I know.
What are you talking about? Name one MMO that deletes characters after a period of inactivity.
Final Fantasy XI delete characters after 3 months of inactivity Lotro Usually it takes 6 to 12 months of inactivity to get a character deleted Diablo-2 characters time out after 3 months of inactivity.
So, some MMORPGs delete a character after a period of inactivity.
And... LOL, yea... People fighting the cause with non-valid arguments ;P.... YOU!!!! :DDDD
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Gara Al'Malik
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Posted - 2008.10.17 10:01:00 -
[4281]
Originally by: Cutesmile
Beggar why beg always for something stuff ? Go to work homeless. ;)
Where did you see begging in my post? I'm fully supporting this great plan of vengeance.
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Nate D
Hell's Rejects
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Posted - 2008.10.17 10:06:00 -
[4282]
Edited by: Nate D on 17/10/2008 10:13:38
Originally by: Cutesmile <snip> Originally by: BIind What are you talking about? Name one MMO that deletes characters after a period of inactivity.
<snip>
Final Fantasy XI delete characters after 3 months of inactivity <snip>
For the record. Final Fantasy XI is one of the WORST MANAGED games in the industry.
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Cutesmile
Pator Tech School
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Posted - 2008.10.17 10:07:00 -
[4283]
Originally by: Gara Al'Malik
Originally by: Cutesmile
Beggar why beg always for something stuff ? Go to work homeless. ;)
Where did you see begging in my post? I'm fully supporting this great plan of vengeance.
Beggar dont repeat always ? " can i have your stuffs ?" Go to pay or work for stuffs, and end the begging.]
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Stormwind Bloodfeather
Minmatar Sogdian Traders Inc
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Posted - 2008.10.17 10:08:00 -
[4284]
Originally by: Cutesmile
Originally by: Gara Al'Malik
Originally by: Cutesmile
Beggar why beg always for something stuff ? Go to work homeless. ;)
Where did you see begging in my post? I'm fully supporting this great plan of vengeance.
Beggar dont repeat always ? " can i have your stuffs ?" Go to pay or work for stuffs, and end the begging.]
Salvaging IS work. In EVE, your only friend is your ship and it's weapons. All others are the enemy! |
Gara Al'Malik
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Posted - 2008.10.17 10:09:00 -
[4285]
Originally by: Cutesmile
Originally by: Gara Al'Malik
Originally by: Cutesmile
Beggar why beg always for something stuff ? Go to work homeless. ;)
Where did you see begging in my post? I'm fully supporting this great plan of vengeance.
Beggar dont repeat always ? " can i have your stuffs ?" Go to pay or work for stuffs, and end the begging.]
I didn't ask for anyones stuff in my post. Did you read it?
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Cutesmile
Pator Tech School
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Posted - 2008.10.17 10:14:00 -
[4286]
Originally by: Nate D
Originally by: Cutesmile <snip> Originally by: BIind What are you talking about? Name one MMO that deletes characters after a period of inactivity.
<snip>
Final Fantasy XI delete characters after 3 months of inactivity <snip>
For the record. Final Fantasy XI is one of the worst MANAGED games in the industry.
Where is your point ? You said no MMO where deleting character. YOU WRONG.
And now what happen ? Your answer .....That's MMO worts thing blabla.
And why you delete the Lord of the rings online ? LOTRO worst MMO ? Or not MMO for you because there is delete inactive accounts ?
You stop the rambling if you do not have truth
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Flinchey
Amarr ANZAC ALLIANCE Southern Cross Alliance
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Posted - 2008.10.17 10:15:00 -
[4287]
Edited by: Flinchey on 17/10/2008 10:15:01 haHA
in all this MMO talk i've just realized out what other mmo does that is almost EXACTLY like ghost training
RESTED EXP
you dont play for a few weeks, BAM! 2 levels at double the standard experience rate
THAT is a good incentive to start playing those games again "hey i haven't played in a while.. i can level up really quickly (say half an hour instead of sometimes a couple of hours) and see what new content there is.. be a bit better in pvp" etc. etc.
take away ghost training and what is there?
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Nate D
Hell's Rejects
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Posted - 2008.10.17 10:16:00 -
[4288]
Originally by: Cutesmile
Originally by: Nate D
Originally by: Cutesmile <snip> Originally by: BIind What are you talking about? Name one MMO that deletes characters after a period of inactivity.
<snip>
Final Fantasy XI delete characters after 3 months of inactivity <snip>
For the record. Final Fantasy XI is one of the worst MANAGED games in the industry.
Where is your point ? You said no MMO where deleting character. YOU WRONG.
And now what happen ? Your answer .....That's MMO worts thing blabla.
And why you delete the Lord of the rings online ? LOTRO worst MMO ? Or not MMO for you because there is delete inactive accounts ?
You stop the rambling if you do not have truth
Whoa there... read more carefully next time. I was not the OP of that rant. I was just adding my two isk...
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Arakn1s
Amarr Aurora Cartel AAA Citizens
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Posted - 2008.10.17 10:20:00 -
[4289]
Originally by: Thorliaron what a load of *****es in this thread. honestly.
you cant afford to have 2 accounts going at the same time but want to train both? tough shit yo.
Pay my sub
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Brother Welcome
Amarr Suddenly Ninjas
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Posted - 2008.10.17 10:25:00 -
[4290]
Originally by: Mithrantir Ob'lontra The incentive to come back to the game after a year or even 6 months, is not the fact that you may have trained a measly skill of 1 month (we are talking about a lv5 of a skill you already have it to lv4).
It's the fact that you know that your character still exists and is the same old one you left alongside with the game, with all his assets. Something no other MMO gives you as far as I know.
The reason one comes back is because he likes the game deep down and just got nostalgic for the people he knows through this game. All the excuses about the incentive a skill can provide to someone, who really quit the game, is just plain old bullshit.
I believe this argument is faulty. When you quit, you quit given the state of the game at that time. Existing character state, existing friends, those are already counted when you make your decision.
So while I would agree with you if you want to say that friends keep you playing longer, and I would even agree that if your character were deleted that would guarantee you didn't return, it is faulty to argue that anything about the state of the game when you quit will motivate you to return.
So yes, exciting new features might bring you back, and changes to your character (ghost-skilling), are important. To argue otherwise is facile.
-vk
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BIind
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Posted - 2008.10.17 10:35:00 -
[4291]
Edited by: BIind on 17/10/2008 10:36:51
Originally by: Cutesmile Final Fantasy XI delete characters after 3 months of inactivity. Lotro Usually it takes 6 to 12 months of inactivity to get a character deleted. Diablo-2 characters time out after 3 months of inactivity.
Ok, I was not aware of this since I have not played them. Still, without ghost training during inactivity you're essentially paying 15 bucks for CCP adding ~1mil SP a month to your character, I don't think that's feasible. If you do, that's fine.
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Cutesmile
Pator Tech School
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Posted - 2008.10.17 10:40:00 -
[4292]
Edited by: Cutesmile on 17/10/2008 10:40:26
Originally by: BIind Edited by: BIind on 17/10/2008 10:36:51
Originally by: Cutesmile Final Fantasy XI delete characters after 3 months of inactivity. Lotro Usually it takes 6 to 12 months of inactivity to get a character deleted. Diablo-2 characters time out after 3 months of inactivity.
Ok, I was not aware of this since I have not played them. Still, without ghost training during inactivity you're essentially paying 15 bucks for CCP adding ~1mil SP a month to your character, I don't think that's feasible. If you do, that's fine.
Again:
Yes i wrote why did this CCP. The Ghost training was not a bug or free stuff. Just a compensating stuff. They said: "we will change simultaneously teaching character option for another one". And they did it littlebit later then in beta. So, the bug and free play just a lying.
So, if you want to know the true story just you need read back. 15$ for lying not for 1m SP.
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Lord Fitz
Project Amargosa
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Posted - 2008.10.17 11:01:00 -
[4293]
Originally by: Mithrantir Ob'lontra Are you really believing what you are saying here?
Yes, I'm truly astounded in the face of all the proof anyone could believe otherwise.
Quote: The incentive to come back to the game after a year or even 6 months, is not the fact that you may have trained a measly skill of 1 month (we are talking about a lv5 of a skill you already have it to lv4).
For some people that plays a hugely significant role in their decision. Remember, you can have trained a 45 day skill quite easily and now have access to capitals or a new range of T2 ships for which that skill is a prerequisite.
Quote: It's the fact that you know that your character still exists and is the same old one you left alongside with the game, with all his assets. Something no other MMO gives you as far as I know.
Shows what you know. ALL good MMOs give you that, and many give you further incentives to return. (much cheaper subs, faster XP etc etc). If Eve wants to join the ranks of the MMOs that delete all your stuff, they can also join their status financially.
Quote: The reason one comes back is because he likes the game deep down and just got nostalgic for the people he knows through this game. All the excuses about the incentive a skill can provide to someone, who really quit the game, is just plain old bullshit.
^ Bullshit.
Quote: The ghost training that was allowed until recently was being overused by a number of people not because they couldn't play on a regural or semi-regural basis, but because they wanted to have a fully grown and advanced character with minimal costs.
'overused' means a lot of people QUIT lately, or obtained an extra account, due to CCP's power of 2 offer. World economic downturn causes people to shed accounts, that or the game isn't attractive to people anymore.
Quote: That is what forced CCP to disable it. So I guess if you and the rest want to vent at someone, you better start looking for the ones who overused this so called feature (while CCP devs have multiple times in the past said it was a bug that was left untouched as a gift of sorts) and forced CCP to revoke it.
Nothing forced them to disable it, they simply decided to, in their words they're doing fine financially. So either that's bullshit, or this is.
Quote: You are the ones to blame and not CCP.
lol. Just lol.
Originally by: CCP t0rfifrans CCP is a greedy money chewing monster
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Lilith Order
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Posted - 2008.10.17 11:09:00 -
[4294]
So you want to add a Que feature and don't want a ghosting of 5 months of skills. I don't understand why you can't just come out and say it.
Alternative, you are seeing financial trouble and active sub counts are a bald face lie. Alternative 2, you are just plain greedy.
I hope it's not an attempt at grabbing more cash because you will lose Alt subs and it won't take many to off set any benefit gained from ghosting. That's not a vengeance statement, just a point of fact. Back to Que training. Not an important enough feature to lose subs over. You know how many people are actually playing this game, CCP. Alt subs wasn't a consideration? Seems short sighted to me.. |
Gorek Loc
Etherware Heavy Engineering
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Posted - 2008.10.17 11:15:00 -
[4295]
Edited by: Gorek Loc on 17/10/2008 11:15:23 Some people tend to discontinue their accounts in favor of ghost training. This could be because it takes too long to train for certain modules or ships.
For a new player to fly a Carrier, it takes about 140 days, just to get the skills to handle the big ship. To fly it decently, it takes over 240 days! Now i know this is an extreme example, but people shouldnt be forced to pay $150 to fly a Carrier, in addition to the time spent online scraping isk together for the ship, skillbooks, and capital modules.
A Black Ops takes 120 days to take out of station, and 270 days ot handle properly.
To fit a T1 cruiser with T2 modules takes 60 days to train for!
A Covert Ops with T2 equipment takes about 40 to 60 days to train for.
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Gorek Loc
Etherware Heavy Engineering
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Posted - 2008.10.17 11:22:00 -
[4296]
Originally by: Lilith Order Alternative, you are seeing financial trouble and active sub counts are a bald face lie. Alternative 2, you are just plain greedy.
Being greedy has nothing to do with it. It is a matter of trying to get your real-world money spent in a hobby you enjoy.
Sometimes I spend a little extra on my hooby, like a luxury item, sometimes, I need to save a little bit to get food on the table and gas on my car.
It is not like people that use ghost training exploit the enire system by ONLY training on inactive accounts. We also activate accounts and play on them. This does indeed mean a bit of switching back and forth, though. CCP will not be getting three full account payments from me all the time, but usually two payments and every so often I activate a third account, let one of the others run out, and continue playing. This also means I have three accounts running simultaneously every now and then... extra money for CCP. After the change, I might activate the other accounts once more, only to either sell the characters or move them onto my main account. A one-time payment for CCCP. Not something to build a company on.
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BIind
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Posted - 2008.10.17 11:32:00 -
[4297]
Originally by: Gorek Loc
Originally by: Lilith Order Alternative, you are seeing financial trouble and active sub counts are a bald face lie. Alternative 2, you are just plain greedy.
Being greedy has nothing to do with it. It is a matter of trying to get your real-world money spent in a hobby you enjoy.
I think he meant CCP and not you.
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Flinchey
Amarr ANZAC ALLIANCE Southern Cross Alliance
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Posted - 2008.10.17 11:35:00 -
[4298]
Originally by: Brother Welcome
Originally by: Mithrantir Ob'lontra The incentive to come back to the game after a year or even 6 months, is not the fact that you may have trained a measly skill of 1 month (we are talking about a lv5 of a skill you already have it to lv4).
It's the fact that you know that your character still exists and is the same old one you left alongside with the game, with all his assets. Something no other MMO gives you as far as I know.
The reason one comes back is because he likes the game deep down and just got nostalgic for the people he knows through this game. All the excuses about the incentive a skill can provide to someone, who really quit the game, is just plain old bullshit.
I believe this argument is faulty. When you quit, you quit given the state of the game at that time. Existing character state, existing friends, those are already counted when you make your decision.
-vk
firstly, i say again, rested exp and if you leave any mmo other than eve for a month. you come back to (almost always) new content. yes that includes WoW (instances... skills.. talent tree rebalancing.. new arenas... thats just in regular patching). EVE stays practically in stasis day in day out (in recent times that is). it gets a little bit of new stuff once or twice a year. and even then a decent chunk of the population doesn't even utilize it.
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Weetabix Kedgeree
Mining Bytes Inc.
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Posted - 2008.10.17 11:46:00 -
[4299]
I am reckoning quite a few people were indeed only training up accounts using ghost training, the recent upsurge in Cap specific alts for sale with no other skills in other ship areas more than suggests that. Why keep a character you intend to sell permanently active after all?
Removing ghost training removes that particular abuse of the ghost training featire. Whether I agree or disagree with the way CCP removed the feature is not really relevant, the fact is, it was being abused.
What annoys me isnt that they removed it, my 3 accounts have been permanently active since the day each was started, ghost training is not something I have ever used. What annoyed me to some extent was the reasoning given, I would have preferred the full truth behind the decision.
Now if CCP were to implement a skill que feature, then that minor annoyance would be instantly forgiven. Can we have one please CCP, it could work nicely alongside the new certificate system (assuming some of the certificates are modified a touch, but thats for another thread) and would take the grind out of managing the training of multiple paid accounts.
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Kyron Wynd
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Posted - 2008.10.17 11:47:00 -
[4300]
I believe that the devs or the economists or whoever made the decision at CCP are well aware, that removing ghost training will probably make them lose money.
As I see it the habit of e.g. paying for 4 accounts and training 6-7 accounts just got out of hand. This is being remedied now. What people did by abusing ghost training was training 1.5 to 2 specialists at the subscription cost of one either to sell the characters or use them themselves. This clearly was not balanced with people who only paid, played and trained only one or 2 accounts that they could actually play at the same time. I don't believe anybody can control more than 2 characters at the same time and still be nearly as productive as if each character was controlled by one person. So if people want the luxury of training a third and fourth specialised character they should pay in full for their play- and training-time. And if they don't want to or cannot afford this, then they should train their main character instead.
Finally to ghost training as incentive for people to come back to the game: The prospect of having a new skill trained when you come back is a minor bonus, not a major incentive. I personally don't play the game for the ships I can fly or for the modules I can use, but because it's a fun way to spend my free time. And if it's not fun anymore and I stop playing, then I sure won't come back because I can fly a new ship.
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Jinx Barker
GFB Scientific
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Posted - 2008.10.17 11:49:00 -
[4301]
Most of EVE players are still not aware of this. It will take months for everyone to realize what CCP actually did. It is then we will see the real "fallout" - pun intended. Most people I talked with in game had no clue as to what is happening, and when I explained it to them, they were upset, lets see how many more people go inactive re-sub, come back realize they lost a month of training, and then leave in disgust.
::::Click The Signature For the Blog::::
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Helios vector
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Posted - 2008.10.17 11:57:00 -
[4302]
hey, did ccp ever respond to all these angry people? if so, can comeone send me a PM here or in game as my corp is upset by this and wants to know if ccp care.
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Sen Zinei
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Posted - 2008.10.17 12:00:00 -
[4303]
removing ghost training will not prevent training specialized character. it will only increase price for such characters. any talk of balance is moot. anyone with real world cash can buy isk, characters and skip all leveling time. sure, it might take some time to get used to game mechanics, but surely not year or two that is required for a decent character.
ghost training was just a tip of an iceberg. but you can't just remove the tip and float over. **** always floats to the surface.
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Kerfira
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Posted - 2008.10.17 12:09:00 -
[4304]
Edited by: Kerfira on 17/10/2008 12:09:10
Originally by: Gorek Loc For a new player to fly a Carrier, it takes about 140 days, just to get the skills to handle the big ship. To fly it decently, it takes over 240 days! Now i know this is an extreme example, but people shouldnt be forced to pay $150 to fly a Carrier, in addition to the time spent online scraping isk together for the ship, skillbooks, and capital modules.
This is a matter of opinion..... People are not just paying to train, but also paying to play. If they don't play, that's their problem, but not an excuse to demand free training from CCP.
Given that so many players are complaining over 'Cap-Ships Online', the removal of ghost training also makes sense in this aspect.
I wonder how many cap pilots would cry it CCP retroactively removed ghost trained skills
Originally by: CCP Wrangler EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
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BIind
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Posted - 2008.10.17 12:14:00 -
[4305]
Originally by: Weetabix Kedgeree I am reckoning quite a few people were indeed only training up accounts using ghost training, the recent upsurge in Cap specific alts for sale with no other skills in other ship areas more than suggests that.
I'm sure our (devs and players) collective wisdom could have come up with a way to prevent farming chars for sale without punishing people who have legitimate (imho ofc) reasons for using this convenient mechanic. But no, "We're removing it along with any discussion it might spawn and that's that."
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Kerfira
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Posted - 2008.10.17 12:17:00 -
[4306]
Edited by: Kerfira on 17/10/2008 12:21:24 EVE: Month 1: Whiner pays for play time and skill training. Month 2: Whiner demands free skill training because he paid last month.
Restaurant: Month 1: Whiner pays for meal and drinks. Month 2: Whiner demands free drinks because he paid last month.
Both are companies selling their products. Why is one required to give away theirs for free?
Originally by: CCP Wrangler EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
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Christine Cormorante
Gallente Warped Mining
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Posted - 2008.10.17 12:25:00 -
[4307]
Originally by: Kerfira Edited by: Kerfira on 17/10/2008 12:21:24 EVE: Month 1: Whiner pays for play time and skill training. Month 2: Whiner demands free skill training because he paid last month.
Restaurant: Month 1: Whiner pays for meal and drinks. Month 2: Whiner demands free drinks because he paid last month.
Both are companies selling their products. Why is one required to give away theirs for free?
The free drinks was an advertised feature that became a bug
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Mickey Simon
Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2008.10.17 12:27:00 -
[4308]
Edited by: Mickey Simon on 17/10/2008 12:31:48 I've recollected my thoughts on the matter, and here's how I feel about it.
The claimed reason is for performance.
I've already established that the amount of data kept while training is minimal at worst, and that there's absolutely no difference at best.
Compare that to market orders which must be processed server side, compare that to research jobs which most likely have a similar system to training but also most likely take up more database space, compare that to whole trail accounts that have gone unused for years, compare that to whole actual accounts that have gone unused for years.
Ghost training is costing CCP either nothing, or extremely little (even if EVERYONE did it), yet they've picked it to target specifically.
Ghost training is an incentive for many players to come back to the game after having a break - similar to rested XP as mentioned previously.
Given that our other characters are not alts in any way shape or form when compared to other mmo's because of EVE's long term scope, so it's also a way of helping to balance out EVE's system used for XP (or SP as the case may be).
Thus; I conclude that either CCP is incredibly out of touch with their own game - to the point where a complete outsider like myself can identify more pressing performance issues; or CCP are attempting to gain more money from subscribers by cancelling something it cost them no money to maintain yet players had interest in.
Both are equally ignorant and I'd personally be absolutely ashamed to be related to any company who can make such gargantuan errors.
This thread is still not appearing. There's absolutely no reason for it not to be appearing, and given I do web development myself I know how easy it would be to create a new dummy thread and merge this hidden one with a visible one - but it hasn't happened.
It's unlikely I'll be renewing my subscription for a company that is this out of touch with its playerbase, and then goes to such ridiculous lengths to cover up issues.
edit: I'm not saying that CCP owe us ghost skill training. They're under no obligation to do anything. I certainly think that they [i]should[i] because it's essentially free for them, and obviously a lot of players enjoy it.
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PsychoBones II
R.E.C.O.N. The Firm.
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Posted - 2008.10.17 12:29:00 -
[4309]
Originally by: Kerfira Edited by: Kerfira on 17/10/2008 12:21:24 EVE: Month 1: Whiner pays for play time and skill training. Month 2: Whiner demands free skill training because he paid last month.
Restaurant: Month 1: Whiner pays for meal and drinks. Month 2: Whiner demands free drinks because he paid last month.
Both are companies selling their products. Why is one required to give away theirs for free?
Because one company actively advertised on their website that they were doing so maybe?
Quit banning me. |
BIind
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Posted - 2008.10.17 12:34:00 -
[4310]
Edited by: BIind on 17/10/2008 12:35:16
Originally by: Kerfira Edited by: Kerfira on 17/10/2008 12:21:24 EVE: Month 1: Whiner pays for play time and skill training. Month 2: Whiner demands free skill training because he paid last month.
Restaurant: Month 1: Whiner pays for meal and drinks. Month 2: Whiner demands free drinks because he paid last month.
Both are companies selling their products. Why is one required to give away theirs for free?
Seriously, if your main mode of conveying ideas are car/baseball/restaurant analogies, maybe you shouldn't.
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Chris Stormrider
Gallente IDEON ANDRON
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Posted - 2008.10.17 12:35:00 -
[4311]
If you give a free dinner for every person that comes in you restaurant, it is wise to think that you can invite a friend and split the difference or take your gf out or whatever.
If you find out that they've stopped doing it (it is their right to do that, sure), you'll probably reconsider the status of the particular restaurant, as related to other restaurants and their price/quality/atmosphere etc.
People are not looking for a free meal, their looking for something that makes a product different. If you make your product the same as everybody else's then people will reconsider, which is always bad, as far as marketing is concerned, and especially bad at a time when people are cutting down on their entertainment and unnecessary expenses. Get it? Nobody said that CCP is wrong, but sometimes being wrong is better than stupid.
The point is, there's no obvious reason to do such a thing and people are feeling better with it than without it, even if they don't use it. So I say no. Nobody cares about my opinion but that's it. So here I am commenting on the subject and discussing it. I don't see why that is bad or anti-ccp or whatever.
In any case, CSM was a failure, in this matter, CCP's aproach was also a failure and the whole "our billing service is down", "look here comes a vague expansion that sounds like we've been spending too much time reading about CERN" is also a failure. Not a huge failure, mind you, but they could certainly do without.
Where does this leave us? In a state where it feels like this game is slowing down (not talking about the lag). DevBlogs come in small bursts, every 3 months or so, with little info. Big features are referring only to a small percentage every time... I dunno, it's just bad management, I'd guess.
Does it matter so much? No, not really. And that is also a fail. Because 2 or 3 years ago this would've been a bigger issue. People cared more about the game. Now, they're just finding an excuse to quit.
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Egil Q
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Posted - 2008.10.17 12:48:00 -
[4312]
This was one of the things that made EVE different. It made me feel that finally a mmrgp that doesn't ask me to bend over. It completed the possibility to fit gaming hobby and real life together.
Maybe it was too much to ask for then.
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Kerfira
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Posted - 2008.10.17 12:57:00 -
[4313]
Originally by: Mickey Simon The claimed reason is for performance.
No, the reason to remove it NOW was that an increasing number of people were abusing it....
Originally by: CCP t0rfifrans But recently we have seen a surge in this behavior in a way that we were essentially supporting and maintaining a large number of customers that weren't paying us regular subscriptions. That's not fair towards CCP as a service provider and it's not fair towards other players that pay a subscription but don't make use of this bug.
Originally by: CCP Wrangler EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
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cillisia
Caldari Delusions 0f Grandeur
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Posted - 2008.10.17 13:01:00 -
[4314]
Good Job CCP, I can't afford to run an alt account continually. Theres goes my probe alt,
- 1 account
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Kerfira
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Posted - 2008.10.17 13:04:00 -
[4315]
Originally by: Christine Cormorante The free drinks was an advertised feature that became a bug
So if a restaurant stopped giving out free drinks, you'd arrange a week-long demonstration?
Originally by: PsychoBones II Because one company actively advertised on their website that they were doing so maybe?
And they're perfectly within their rights to stop it when people start abusing it....
Originally by: BIind Seriously, if your main mode of conveying ideas are car/baseball/restaurant analogies, maybe you shouldn't.
Translation: "I have no valid arguments, so I'll attack the poster...."
As with all other emoragequit threads, the amount of people being so riled up shows that they'll subscribe anyway ...if you were REALLY serious about quitting, you'd have biomassed your chars and values....
Originally by: CCP Wrangler EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
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Doomsday
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Posted - 2008.10.17 13:08:00 -
[4316]
Originally by: cillisia Good Job CCP, I can't afford to run an alt account continually. Theres goes my probe alt,
- 1 account
Originally by: CCP t0rfifrans ...don't make use of this bug.
So you used a bug for your advantage...cheating, right? You are now a cheater in CCP's eyes.
Ha Ha, i love this thread.
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Mickey Simon
Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2008.10.17 13:09:00 -
[4317]
Edited by: Mickey Simon on 17/10/2008 13:12:39
Originally by: Kerfira
No, the reason to remove it NOW was that an increasing number of people were abusing it....
I did read that part, the blog then goes on to say:
Quote: Now a single customer that doesn't log into the servers may not weigh heavily on our database infrastructure, just as a single snowflake isn't that heavy, hardly a measurable quantity. But it's hard not to notice an avalanche if it hits you. And that's what was starting to happen in our database.
When they start talking about the database and the weight in the database infrastructure, they're talking about how much data is there and how it's organised which is a long winded way of saying performance.
That may be an incorrect analysis of it, but it's what I understand as at least part of their "reason" for doing it.
Originally by: Kerfira
Originally by: Christine Cormorante The free drinks was an advertised feature that became a bug
So if a restaurant stopped giving out free drinks, you'd arrange a week-long demonstration?
I don't think it's fair at all to compare ghost training (which is something that does not cost CCP anything more than maintaining the character [which is already done]) with something that actively costs a business money.
If this was a "CCP are deleting characters stored in the database after an inactive period of 30 days" then I would agree with your simile, however it is not and therefore your comparison is meaningless because you're comparing apples to oranges.
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FlameGlow
Legio Octae Rebellion Alliance
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Posted - 2008.10.17 13:20:00 -
[4318]
All those quitters are fake,as none of them sent me their stuff yet Anyway, this nerf is good as this game certainly needs less: 1) Alts 2) Old geezers with "all lvl 5" skills 3) Cheapskates who can't pay for it
_____________ I don't care what is nerfed, as long as it's not my "undock" button. |
Big Al
Stoat's Ultimate Carebear Adventure
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Posted - 2008.10.17 13:25:00 -
[4319]
Edited by: Big Al on 17/10/2008 13:26:42 143 pages of rage, imagine how long it'd be if it wasn't a hidden post on a forum no one reads.
Seems like if they really wanted to lose revenue they could have started actually banning ISK farmers.
____ please buy my chars (don't really, I really don't want to give CCP any more money) |
Leshiye
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Posted - 2008.10.17 13:25:00 -
[4320]
Well, all this banter is well and good... I like to see the kids get involved with community things. But this is just about subscribership and the income they represent.
Accountants identify areas where additional revenue might be obtained, and the developers code it in... easy enough to understand. I don't hold any ill will toward Eve for trying to make some cash in the process... they even tell you guys up front that this is pretty much what its all about, so... How can you beat them up for being straight-forward?
I personally think they should have done away with it after the beta discussion though. This (along with other little bugs) just gives people something to hold onto and run around the net screaming "BUT...BUT...BUT!"
Snap out of it.
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Christine Cormorante
Gallente Warped Mining
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Posted - 2008.10.17 13:34:00 -
[4321]
Originally by: Leshiye Well, all this banter is well and good... I like to see the kids get involved with community things. But this is just about subscribership and the income they represent.
Accountants identify areas where additional revenue might be obtained, and the developers code it in... easy enough to understand. I don't hold any ill will toward Eve for trying to make some cash in the process... they even tell you guys up front that this is pretty much what its all about, so... How can you beat them up for being straight-forward?
I personally think they should have done away with it after the beta discussion though. This (along with other little bugs) just gives people something to hold onto and run around the net screaming "BUT...BUT...BUT!"
Snap out of it.
I think you missed the part where this supposed "bug" was fixed on Serenity 3 years ago
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Gunnanmon
Gallente UNITED STAR SYNDICATE R-I-P
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Posted - 2008.10.17 13:35:00 -
[4322]
I love how they "fix" this so-called bug, and don't bother to fix the fact that windows now bounce all over the place, something that ****es me off every day.
The hidden ghost training eradication reply thread |
IR Scoutar
Caldari State War Academy
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Posted - 2008.10.17 13:47:00 -
[4323]
Edited by: IR Scoutar on 17/10/2008 13:49:31 regardless of what i think of ccp as a company atm wich incidentialy is portrayd very well in this futurama trailer between 0:27 and 0:32 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oEiJ3QA4kKs
i still maintain there are 2 issues at hand
issue nr 1 : The unaceptable way this "ghost training fix" was anounced, folowed by a blatant lie in a panicblog, folowed by some dribble in this threadnaught wich ether implies we are all morons or ccp are morons because they actualy let something like that slip thru and didnt notice it and i sitll dont seen an appology besides the "sorry you are so knowledgeable" apollogy in this threadnaught on page 93 (and one could say the ceo then posting a devblog wich is utterly and completly uninteresting and doesnt realy toutch things that concern the eve players atm)
issue nr 2 : Ghost training oh god oh god oh god we got something for free wich was now taken away boohoo or not boohoo ? after all its been 5 years ... yes there where people that abused it soley to get their momy pilots or titan pilots or whatnots but frankly who gives a crap ? mostly whiners that will never be able to sit in such a thing, at the most get blown up by it (yeah i dont have one ether and nether does my mains corp ... why am i not posting with my main ? because that has run out of gametime and i probably wont renew him because of issue nr1 ) but why should you even care that "ghost training" was taken away ? you ? probably shouldnt care at all the guys that suffer burnouts or cant play for a month or 2 probably will care much more for reasons posted to death here
colosing thoughts frankly that ccp took away ghost training is a horribly horribly bad bussiness decision in my eyes nothing more, so if they want to shoot themselves in the foot with a bazooka ... let em!
What i care about and what i WANT is a bloddy appology for HOW this crap went down, plain and simple p.s. not in this topic... in a dev blog... with a news announcement ... and dont burry it under 10 tons of rubbish like you did with ghost trainings and pardon the pun the subsequent ccp fallout
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Kheldon Fel
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Posted - 2008.10.17 13:50:00 -
[4324]
Originally by: Doomsday
Originally by: cillisia Good Job CCP, I can't afford to run an alt account continually. Theres goes my probe alt,
- 1 account
Originally by: CCP t0rfifrans ...don't make use of this bug.
[Citation Needed]
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Doomsday
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Posted - 2008.10.17 13:55:00 -
[4325]
Its just so easy. CCPs game, CCPs rules.
Just like in every other MMO: "Adapt or Die."
We don't pay them to develop and maintain our game, we pay for log in to there game. Only one thing can change there opinions - there wallet. Don't pay them when you don't like there decisions - plain and simple. They know many people "love" there chars and the second life they have in EVE, so the customer base is resilient. They do not quit or come back after a month. They cry, but who cares - they "Adapt or Die."
|
Le Skunk
Low Sec Liberators
|
Posted - 2008.10.17 14:00:00 -
[4326]
Lol so this threads still hidden.
Shocking behavior.
SKUNK
|
Doomsday
|
Posted - 2008.10.17 14:01:00 -
[4327]
Originally by: Kheldon Fel
Originally by: Doomsday
Originally by: cillisia Good Job CCP, I can't afford to run an alt account continually. Theres goes my probe alt,
- 1 account
Originally by: CCP t0rfifrans ...don't make use of this bug.
[Citation Needed]
http://myeve.eve-online.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&bid=592
|
IR Scoutar
Caldari State War Academy
|
Posted - 2008.10.17 14:12:00 -
[4328]
Originally by: Doomsday Its just so easy. CCPs game, CCPs rules.
Just like in every other MMO: "Adapt or Die."
We don't pay them to develop and maintain our game, we pay for log in to there game. Only one thing can change there opinions - there wallet. Don't pay them when you don't like there decisions - plain and simple. They know many people "love" there chars and the second life they have in EVE, so the customer base is resilient. They do not quit or come back after a month. They cry, but who cares - they "Adapt or Die."
First of all ill try if i can get thru to you with logic about the "bug" Ill try to keep it simple If you program a game like this where accounts run out of gametime.. you want the characters to stop everything they are doing and not be able to log in ... correct ? would you say stop them from being able to see the game news and post on the forums but "forget" to make the caracter stop all its ingame actions because ? its too hard to code ? (LMAO wrong job) or infact you dont care and it works as intended and then over 5 years after the game has been release and you added it to your manual etc blablabla suddenly come out and say oopsies thats umm a bug we missed it for 5 years and we thought when you cant log in your caracter stops doing everything ....
please please please stop calling it a bug or an oversight or whatnot it was deliberate (feature or not good or bad i aint discussing that )
as for
Quote:
They know many people "love" there chars and the second life they have in EVE, so the customer base is resilient
i dont know what you play but i play a game called EvE : Online not an escape world because i ****ed up in the real one called second life ppl are indeed fond of their chars but i wouldnt pay just to see a bar go from left to right ... actualy i wouldnt because i for whatever reasons cant play at the moment ... always thought that ..... oopsie allmost got dragged into that silly discussion there nvm
|
Garia666
Amarr T.H.U.G L.I.F.E White Core
|
Posted - 2008.10.17 14:14:00 -
[4329]
Everytime A blog which they know have allot of impact is followed by allot of other blogs in the hope people will forget this one.. I havent seen any reaction they prob just dont read it anymore..
would be nice if we got some rectification about how it was unintended.. as it clearly wasnt.. but now they made it like it is.. www.garia.net |
10of10
|
Posted - 2008.10.17 14:15:00 -
[4330]
NEWS FLASH !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
CCP announces that they will be posting a blog in response to this thread. |
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Doomsday
|
Posted - 2008.10.17 14:20:00 -
[4331]
Originally by: IR Scoutar
Originally by: Doomsday Its just so easy. CCPs game, CCPs rules.
Just like in every other MMO: "Adapt or Die."
We don't pay them to develop and maintain our game, we pay for log in to there game. Only one thing can change there opinions - there wallet. Don't pay them when you don't like there decisions - plain and simple. They know many people "love" there chars and the second life they have in EVE, so the customer base is resilient. They do not quit or come back after a month. They cry, but who cares - they "Adapt or Die."
First of all ill try if i can get thru to you with logic about the "bug" Ill try to keep it simple If you program a game like this where accounts run out of gametime.. you want the characters to stop everything they are doing and not be able to log in ... correct ? would you say stop them from being able to see the game news and post on the forums but "forget" to make the caracter stop all its ingame actions because ? its too hard to code ? (LMAO wrong job) or infact you dont care and it works as intended and then over 5 years after the game has been release and you added it to your manual etc blablabla suddenly come out and say oopsies thats umm a bug we missed it for 5 years and we thought when you cant log in your caracter stops doing everything ....
please please please stop calling it a bug or an oversight or whatnot it was deliberate (feature or not good or bad i aint discussing that )
as for
Quote:
They know many people "love" there chars and the second life they have in EVE, so the customer base is resilient
i dont know what you play but i play a game called EvE : Online not an escape world because i ****ed up in the real one called second life ppl are indeed fond of their chars but i wouldnt pay just to see a bar go from left to right ... actualy i wouldnt because i for whatever reasons cant play at the moment ... always thought that ..... oopsie allmost got dragged into that silly discussion there nvm
Don't get me wrong. I just quoted the dev blog where its called a bug. I just pointed out, that they don't care about many people, because they know they stay or come back. There is only one way to let them think over there decisions - over there wallet. If this will not happen, nothing changes.
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10of10
|
Posted - 2008.10.17 14:22:00 -
[4332]
They will post a link to a link in two different threads of which the first thread is hidden due to "Technical Difficulties".
|
Cutesmile
Pator Tech School
|
Posted - 2008.10.17 14:32:00 -
[4333]
Ok,ok. The CCP fans told, we are wrong.
But what think about this ? http://myeve.eve-online.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&bid=591
Certificates bullsh*t. Lol idea. Why do it this ? Standard armor tanking certificate not enough for something ship ? You need elite, now not enough the ship skills need more armor, turret etc skills too. Because more times need for one ship. Longer training time mutch money fo CCP. Another lying.
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Kheldon Fel
|
Posted - 2008.10.17 14:34:00 -
[4334]
Edited by: Kheldon Fel on 17/10/2008 14:40:42 Edited by: Kheldon Fel on 17/10/2008 14:37:29
Originally by: Doomsday
Originally by: Kheldon Fel
Originally by: Doomsday
Originally by: cillisia Good Job CCP, I can't afford to run an alt account continually. Theres goes my probe alt,
- 1 account
Originally by: CCP t0rfifrans ...don't make use of this bug.
[Citation Needed]
http://myeve.eve-online.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&bid=592
Taken out of context much?
Edit: No, seriously, I hope you're not actually that ****ing stupid. Edit2: Well crap, it's getting entirely too difficult to separate the batshit crazies from the sarcastic.
|
Doomsday
|
Posted - 2008.10.17 14:36:00 -
[4335]
Edited by: Doomsday on 17/10/2008 14:36:52
Originally by: Kheldon Fel
...... Taken out of context much?
Naaa, sarcasm must be allowed
|
IR Scoutar
Caldari State War Academy
|
Posted - 2008.10.17 14:41:00 -
[4336]
Originally by: Doomsday
Don't get me wrong. I just quoted the dev blog where its called a bug. I just pointed out, that they don't care about many people, because they know they stay or come back. There is only one way to let them think over there decisions - over there wallet. If this will not happen, nothing changes.
just voicing my distain that some people insist of calling it a bug or exploit
|
Tivookz
Caldari IMPERIAL SENATE Pure.
|
Posted - 2008.10.17 14:59:00 -
[4337]
Edited by: Tivookz on 17/10/2008 15:00:20 To all those people saying that oh why should John Doe be able to cancel his sub and train carrier lvl 5 without having to pay a nickle for it.
Well my answer to you is, he doesn't.
He simply takes advantage of the fact that it's possible and convenient and he needs to take a break for some reason, like me.
One does not take a break just because of a long skill.
I have never cancelled my subscription just because I had a looong skill train ahead of me, because I dont know about you guys but I don't play this game to train skills, I play to fight.
Nice move CCP, here in Sweden there is a saying that doesn't translate very good into english but it goes like this: "The one that is always craving for more will often miss the biggest reward."
Right now you're being greedy.
First it was not ok to get paid in dollars so u removed 30/90 day trial cards and replaced them with a more expensive 60 day card.
Now you try to force the people who want to be able to train skills on their account while taking a break from eve to continue paying for their account.
You just shot yourself in the foot.
Marketing noobs.
Tiv
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Xeronn
Amarr Ordo Drakonis Curatores Veritatis Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.10.17 15:06:00 -
[4338]
/bump
no reaction from CCP except cover-up tactics ...shame!
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10of10
|
Posted - 2008.10.17 15:14:00 -
[4339]
Edited by: 10of10 on 17/10/2008 15:14:59 WE all should just go post in the public threads with this link. Yes they will lock it but with over 300 locks the public will start to ask questions.
Call it the CCP cover up.... |
Duskadantor
|
Posted - 2008.10.17 15:15:00 -
[4340]
Originally by: Le Skunk Lol so this threads still hidden.
Shocking behavior.
SKUNK
It's not truly hidden yet. It still remains apart of the headline news. Just follow the links from there and you'll end up here. Only two more news headlines though before it's buried from public sight. Well thats the only way I keep getting back here ^^
|
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Lady Godgifu
Gallente The Scope
|
Posted - 2008.10.17 15:30:00 -
[4341]
Why is this thread still hidden???
|
Frances Ducoir
Gallente Bounty Hunter - Dark Legion
|
Posted - 2008.10.17 15:37:00 -
[4342]
Originally by: Doomsday Its just so easy. CCPs game, CCPs rules. Just like in every other MMO: "Adapt or Die."
I pay them to play a game. A game with a feature, which was avaiable over 5 years. They disabled it, i dont pay them anymore... ... easy enough isnt it?
Keep this "Adapt or Die" Crap for yourself. I'AM THE COSTUMER. I dont have to adapt to anything, especcially not disabled features, which are now declared as a bug and cause outrages within the whole comunity. This is ridiculous. Shame on you CCP.
*snip* Signiture remoted because it contained profanity - hutch |
BIind
|
Posted - 2008.10.17 15:41:00 -
[4343]
Edited by: BIind on 17/10/2008 15:41:31
Originally by: Lady Godgifu Why is this thread still hidden???
HERE'S WHY!
|
10of10
|
Posted - 2008.10.17 15:44:00 -
[4344]
http://myeve.eve-online.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&bid=590
Wow, here is something that seems meaningless but... "The new system will calculate standings based only on the average of all members who have been a part of the corporation for 7 days or more without factoring in anything else." This will make the service of raising a corp standings for POS anchoring for a fee much more painful and less lucrative, I can't imagine people are going to want to pay double to triple what they are paying now.
Time to move on you greedy bastards.... |
Lady Godgifu
Gallente The Scope
|
Posted - 2008.10.17 15:53:00 -
[4345]
Originally by: Frances Ducoir
Originally by: Doomsday Its just so easy. CCPs game, CCPs rules. Just like in every other MMO: "Adapt or Die."
I pay them to play a game. A game with a feature, which was avaiable over 5 years. They disabled it, i dont pay them anymore... ... easy enough isnt it?
Keep this "Adapt or Die" Crap for yourself. I'AM THE COSTUMER. I dont have to adapt to anything, especcially not disabled features, which are now declared as a bug and cause outrages within the whole comunity. This is ridiculous. Shame on you CCP.
fair play dude, I'm not bothered renewing either, hell I'm not playing atm and I sure as hell ain't going to pay to skill train. Got 3/4 games on my pc atm that I haven't gotten around to playing. Might check out ambulation when it comes out on one of those trial accounts but that certainly wasn't keeping me playing, lag and the time sink that is Eve is are my main issues with the game.
The fact they removed flexibility with gtc's and now ghost training just killed it for me.
|
Erimisha
Minmatar
|
Posted - 2008.10.17 16:11:00 -
[4346]
Originally by: N'tek alar
Also, a few hundred accounts is not a majority of a few hundred thousand.
Did you notice how the majority have NOT posted?
Look how stupid you are..
This page 'vanished' from the Information Portal something like 12 hours after it was started (and by then it was already 60+ pages long).
CCP, of course, has no idea how this thread (and ONLY this thread in the history of the EVE-Online forums) 'vanished' and over 72 hours later they "can't" figure out how to get it back on the front page of the dev forum..
The VAST majority of these posts have came from people sending each other links in game and out of game to find this thread.
Also, just because the "majority" of players don't post here doesn't mean anything. Know why? Don't confuse 'players' with 'accounts.' I am 1 player but I had 3 accounts, some have alot more. So unless we posted with 1 character from each account then the majority of accounts wouldn't be represented. Let's also not forget that a decent percentage of players wouldn't post here even if CCP promised $100 for every account that posted here simply because they don't "do" message boards.
That hardly makes this point moot.
(BTW, I would also suggest you actually, I dunno, bother to read at least a few pages in this thread to see what the biggest gripes are about (BS reasons given by CCP for this change, the constantly changing reasons for this change, the complete lack of player respect by no dialogue about this (yet the other dev threads get multiple CCP Dev answers on the first page while this 144 page thread gets 1 answer--and it is pure crap).
I'll type this part slowly for the people whining about people unhappy with this: The vast majority of unhappy people are ambivilant towards this change, they are unhappy with how CCP handled it and continues to handle it.
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Gorek Loc
Etherware Heavy Engineering
|
Posted - 2008.10.17 16:16:00 -
[4347]
Originally by: Kerfira Edited by: Kerfira on 17/10/2008 12:21:24 EVE: Month 1: Whiner pays for play time and skill training. Month 2: Whiner demands free skill training because he paid last month.
Restaurant: Month 1: Whiner pays for meal and drinks. Month 2: Whiner demands free drinks because he paid last month.
Both are companies selling their products. Why is one required to give away theirs for free?
This corresponds to the 'free drinks' machine has a 'broken' sign on it... not advertised outside.
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Ishbuanium
Black Skull Legion Veneratio Venator Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.10.17 16:22:00 -
[4348]
Originally by: Lady Godgifu Why is this thread still hidden???
|
Rita Zechs
|
Posted - 2008.10.17 16:23:00 -
[4349]
Bouncing back to top... Oh wait...
|
Erimisha
Minmatar
|
Posted - 2008.10.17 16:29:00 -
[4350]
Originally by: Kerfira
Originally by: Christine Cormorante The free drinks was an advertised feature that became a bug
So if a restaurant stopped giving out free drinks, you'd arrange a week-long demonstration?
Depends on their reasoning.
Customer: Hey, I'd like one of those free drink offers please. Restaurant: Well, too many people were stealing our drinks and you see it was an unfair advantage that only people who came in got the drink so we're discontinuing the offer. Customer: Unfair advantage? Stealing what you advertised for free? What? Restaurant: Sorry, it was causing our front door to open too slowly, we've had to stop offering free drinks. Customer: Uh, but the drinking coming from the soda machine doesn't need to interact with the door in any significant way..?? Is your plumber ******ed or something? Restaurant: To tell you the truth, that 5 year old offer was just a typo the whole time. Half of our staff didn't even know about it. Sucks to be us, eh? Customer: But you went out of your way to make and hand out all those offers for free drinks. You were the ones who told us about the free drinks! You even fixed the same typo on your advertisement across town. WTF? Restaurant: . . .
There is a timeline to this fiasco btw.
First CCP claimed it was unfair and too many people were using it. Then they claimed it was causing db strain and lag. Finally they claimed it was a 'bug that became a feature' even though they fixed this particular 'bug' on the Chinese server well over a year ago. Now they are 110% ignoring this thread for anything other than the mod-police *removing* posts here and there. Not just editing posts or removing content like in every other thread but REMOVING whole posts.
|
|
Sandy Minge
|
Posted - 2008.10.17 16:29:00 -
[4351]
Edited by: Sandy Minge on 17/10/2008 16:32:55
Originally by: Kerfira Edited by: Kerfira on 17/10/2008 12:21:24 EVE: Month 1: Whiner pays for play time and skill training. Month 2: Whiner demands free skill training because he paid last month.
Restaurant: Month 1: Whiner pays for meal and drinks. Month 2: Whiner demands free drinks because he paid last month.
Both are companies selling their products. Why is one required to give away theirs for free?
I go to clubs and restaurants quite a lot (at least 1x per week). So I usually give large tips and, in exchange, I get free drinks, free entrance, guestlist listings, vip accesses. The day my fellow bartenders or restaurant managers refuse to give me a freeby here and there I am going to reevaluate my clubbing habits.
|
Monomatar
|
Posted - 2008.10.17 16:33:00 -
[4352]
i dont care about ghost training yes or no. it is the same for everybody anyways. the way this went down just made me loose respect towards the eve makers. this is sad. i quit for now. maybe ambulation will get me tempted. otherwise perhaps it wont.
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Doomsday
|
Posted - 2008.10.17 16:34:00 -
[4353]
Originally by: Sandy Minge Edited by: Sandy Minge on 17/10/2008 16:32:55
Originally by: Kerfira Edited by: Kerfira on 17/10/2008 12:21:24 EVE: Month 1: Whiner pays for play time and skill training. Month 2: Whiner demands free skill training because he paid last month.
Restaurant: Month 1: Whiner pays for meal and drinks. Month 2: Whiner demands free drinks because he paid last month.
Both are companies selling their products. Why is one required to give away theirs for free?
I go to clubs and restaurants quite a lot (at least 1x per week). So I usually give large tips and, in exchange, I get free drinks, free entrance, guestlist listings, vip accesses. The day my fellow bartenders or restaurant managers refuse to give me a freeby here and there I am going to reevaluate my clubbing habits.
CCP want there tips monthly and regular.
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Shoukei
Caldari Boobs Ahoy
|
Posted - 2008.10.17 16:42:00 -
[4354]
people and their money, both get wasted :p
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RedSplat
|
Posted - 2008.10.17 16:48:00 -
[4355]
Hopefull Bump
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Vaugue
|
Posted - 2008.10.17 17:04:00 -
[4356]
doh i just renewed from a 2 year break.. wish i hadn't. enjoy the 15$ ccp :( 1 shot deal. ========================= Why use a forum to auction when you can sell it on Eve-Bay!
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SZ Rota
Caldari Eve University Ivy League
|
Posted - 2008.10.17 17:28:00 -
[4357]
Per Cutesmile on page 142 of this thread.
Lotro does NOT delete inactive characters, what are you smoking? If Lotro deletes characters, then pigs fly and the world is not in a financial crisis and we use perpetual motion machines for clean reusable free energy and Europeans call football soccer.
Companies who support mmos spend almost zero operating cost to save a character thatÆs potentially some day reactivated providing another steady revenue stream again.
I know someone who hasnÆt played EQ1 since 1999 who recently got an email inviting him back to reactivate his account.
That is mmo industry standard.
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Joskken Inx
PURE Legion Pure.
|
Posted - 2008.10.17 17:33:00 -
[4358]
I'm at the point now playing a MMO is just...well, no nice way of saying it, it's a waste of my time and money. After 3 years I finally succumbed to the power of two offer a couple weeks ago. I feel like an idiot for doing it.
There's no other MMO like Eve, and there is nowhere I'd rather go than here. I've said it many, many times during this week it's not the "nerf" that ****ed me off. It's calling us in no uncertain terms "exploiters" for using a "bug" all this time.
That I've worked on, documented, and did everything in-game to help correct real and pertinent bugs only to now be labeled something akin to an exploiter, and then given just a couple days to change everything I've ever known about Eve, and THEN just ****ing gaffed off, that's what did it for me. All these things Eve needs to have fixed, things that are real and truly broken, and ignore all that for "ghost training"? The **** is wrong with you?
**** your stupid expansion, it ain't shit. It won't "fix" anything. It won't correct screwed up game mechanics, it won't fix lag, it won't fix a damn thing but try and be something bright and shiny to take whomever is left here's mind off of real issues.
Weather's been nice outside. Went on a field trip with my daughter's school yesterday. Had a wonderful time, took lots of pictures. I think game time's over for me.
Especially if I'm going to get treated like a ****ing moron in-game by the people who run things. ------------------------------------------------ "Skills continue training even if you are logged off or if your account is inactive (in the second scenario you can't change skill training, though). |
Will Mayhem
|
Posted - 2008.10.17 18:02:00 -
[4359]
Edited by: Will Mayhem on 17/10/2008 18:05:33
Originally by: N'tek alar Edited by: N''tek alar on 17/10/2008 08:21:40
Originally by: Sargeant HAmmer 140 pages .... doesnt that show something?
Yes, It shows that the eve community is full of whiny, *****y cheapskates who're throwing a temper tantrum because they aren't getting their free toys NOW!!!
It also shows that people think that repeating the same 4-5 arguments over and over and over a couple thousand times makes them more valid.
Ooooooh, Did i mention it shows that the eve community is full of whiny, *****y cheapskates?
Good work CCP, Don't take it back.
Agree or disagree with CCP's decision but this is going to hurt everyone. Everyone.
CCP is going to lose revenues. Period. An account active for 6 or 8 months out of the year is still revenue compared to one that will now be active 0 months out of the year. Many more people are going to go the route of never reactivating their accounts after a period of inactivity verses those who used to ghost train who will now keep their account activated year round.
Even the fanboi's who can't get on their knee's fast enough to support CCP in this decision, are going to be hurt as well. Have fun playing a MMO that is going to have significantly fewer players and supported by a company who just made a decision that is going to reduce their revenues. At what level is CCP going to be able to support the game with less money? What will give? Fewer support personnel, less frequent hardware upgrades, less time spent on development of new content?
Everyone loses here. For CCP to make this decision is truly a sign that either they have completely lost touch with their customers or they simply do not care.
-3 accounts as of yesterday for me due to this decision.
|
DJ Geist
|
Posted - 2008.10.17 18:06:00 -
[4360]
Originally by: Joskken Inx I'm at the point now playing a MMO is just...well, no nice way of saying it, it's a waste of my time and money. After 3 years I finally succumbed to the power of two offer a couple weeks ago. I feel like an idiot for doing it.
There's no other MMO like Eve, and there is nowhere I'd rather go than here. I've said it many, many times during this week it's not the "nerf" that ****ed me off. It's calling us in no uncertain terms "exploiters" for using a "bug" all this time.
That I've worked on, documented, and did everything in-game to help correct real and pertinent bugs only to now be labeled something akin to an exploiter, and then given just a couple days to change everything I've ever known about Eve, and THEN just ****ing gaffed off, that's what did it for me. All these things Eve needs to have fixed, things that are real and truly broken, and ignore all that for "ghost training"? The **** is wrong with you?
**** your stupid expansion, it ain't shit. It won't "fix" anything. It won't correct screwed up game mechanics, it won't fix lag, it won't fix a damn thing but try and be something bright and shiny to take whomever is left here's mind off of real issues.
Weather's been nice outside. Went on a field trip with my daughter's school yesterday. Had a wonderful time, took lots of pictures. I think game time's over for me.
Especially if I'm going to get treated like a ****ing moron in-game by the people who run things.
nice one, that expressed it in blunt and real terms.
MMO's are a waste of time and a distraction from daily life, it's true.
When MMO companies provide enough incentives and perks where continuing to play, with alts, seems affordable and worthwhile, then its ok. When companies get greedy and try to milk you for even more, clarity kicks in and the sillyness of mmo's become aparrent.
Respect!
|
|
Will Mayhem
|
Posted - 2008.10.17 18:16:00 -
[4361]
Oh yes. Just so I'm at least the 100th person to say it. Good job on making this thread and the issue far less visible.
Lying to us and saying that its a technical issue as to why it's not displaying just reinforces the notion that you truly think we are idiots and that we are willing to accept being lied to and still remain a customer.
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Freezehunter
Gallente O.W.N. Corp OWN Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.10.17 18:40:00 -
[4362]
A question just popped in my mind...
I once got banned for indecent language, for 3 days...
If i ever get banned again, will my training be disabled for the duration of the BAN?
If yes, *BEEP* you, CCP...
If not, ghost train nerf was a good idea ^^
|
Sandy Minge
|
Posted - 2008.10.17 19:52:00 -
[4363]
Originally by: Freezehunter A question just popped in my mind...
I once got banned for indecent language, for 3 days...
If i ever get banned again, will my training be disabled for the duration of the BAN?
If yes, *BEEP* you, CCP...
If not, ghost train nerf was a good idea ^^
I don't think CCP renders your account inactive if gets banned - As they can punish you with you not being able to log in and play while they get 3 days off your subscription time! => $$$PROFIT$$$
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Judas Jones
Amarr Black Company
|
Posted - 2008.10.17 20:06:00 -
[4364]
Originally by: Lady Godgifu Why is this thread still hidden???
|
Woofsie
Minmatar White Wolves Syndicate THORN Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.10.17 20:13:00 -
[4365]
Originally by: Judas Jones
Originally by: Lady Godgifu Why is this thread still hidden???
__ This post is wholly representative of the views of both my corp and my alliance.
CCP Inconsistency
Fnord. |
dobi woobie
|
Posted - 2008.10.17 20:20:00 -
[4366]
Originally by: Woofsie
Originally by: Judas Jones
Originally by: Lady Godgifu Why is this thread still hidden???
thats funy
|
Alt Alt
|
Posted - 2008.10.17 20:25:00 -
[4367]
there is really very little to add to this thread at this point.
however one thing that I really hope CCP has considered before disabling such a good feature is this:
If I played WoW, Age of Conan, Everquest, Lineage, or for the most part any other MMO; If I chose a certain character type, lets say a mage or something,and then trained my mage up over with 3 or 4 hour days for week straight, and then got bored with my mage, or thought i wanted to try another aspect of the game. I could then choose a new character, and Based on my own time put in and my own efforts I could "level up" and enjoy another aspect of the game.
In Eve this is simply not the case. There is a set time for all training. there is no way to speed up the process ( only ways to go slower i.e. no learnign skills/implants) and you are forced to endure your low skills for a long period of time until the character haas skills that make it more fun to play that your previous main character.
Ghost training during the first few months is not feasible tbh because all the skills are so short, but once you say go for your first hulk, or freighter or cap ship, there are ample opportunities to ghost trian and enjoy your other account.
I know that some people in favor of the nerf are saying " well your getting the game for free" no, im not, I payed to start the character, im paying to play another character, and Im not able to enjoy playing the disabled character untill I resub. Im all for stopping rp, and market transactions for Ghosted people, but please leave that skill in.
This feature is neccessary in a game like eve because there is no way to speed up the training process on a new character. I believe CCP saw this when they first designed the game and that is the reason ghost training was left in ( I may be wrong, but ill give CCP the benifit of the doubt this once)
Please CCP understand your product in rerlation to otheer MMO's.
-all MMOS allow resubbing characters, the characters are never erased and it doesnt take up alot of space.
-one last skill train on an unsuubed character is not going to lag the servers, please dont try to pass that off as teh problem.
-any other MMO gives me a way to train the character in a faster fashion than eve, If im an expereinced player, I may be getting nothing from my alt while he trains up advanced spaceship command five or bs five while waiting for cap ships. you really had a great feature allowing us to ghost train those alts until we were ready to play them on a more extensive basis
-please understand that for the majority of EVE players the deciscion is now- do i keep playing my character that is gettign boring? Do I spend more of my hard earned money and get an alt and endure the noob skills he will have for so long? Do I jsut quit since i don't wasnt to endure training a new character and dont have the money for multiple accounts all the time?
- I believe you are going to find that you will lose many players after the initial character transfer period to people getting bored with one account and not having the rl isk to get a second account full time, and your certainly going to lose numerous secondary accounts to people who will now not think it is worth it to do anythign but keep their main account. ( keep in mind this will jsut add to the boredom and eve breaks that people take.)
anyway, im not bashing CCP but I think that after talking with many of my eve friends, this opinion represents many of them as well as myself. I like this game and dont want to see it go down the crapper, but i believe this move is like putting your finger on the flusher and laughing at all of us in the toilet
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Khamal Jolstien
Caldari Product Number 3
|
Posted - 2008.10.17 20:28:00 -
[4368]
I don't even use this feature, and I think it's removal is just awful. It was in the damn knowledge base for crying out loud
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supr3m3justic3
Caldari Hakata Group Blade.
|
Posted - 2008.10.17 20:33:00 -
[4369]
come on guys we gotta get this thread to 150 pages before DT..... ____
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supr3m3justic3
Caldari Hakata Group Blade.
|
Posted - 2008.10.17 20:34:00 -
[4370]
Originally by: dobi woobie
Originally by: Woofsie
Originally by: Judas Jones
Originally by: Lady Godgifu Why is this thread still hidden???
thats funy
____
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Seth Vorlar
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Posted - 2008.10.17 20:35:00 -
[4371]
bump
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Bagehi
Association of Commonwealth Enterprises FOUNDATI0N
|
Posted - 2008.10.17 20:40:00 -
[4372]
Edited by: Bagehi on 17/10/2008 20:41:14
Originally by: Col Carter
This is far more likely to be a "need" issue than a "greed" issue, but CCP can hardly turn around and say so if that is the case.
In laymen's terms, these financial numbers (from CCP's website) are going the wrong way. Their costs are increasing much faster than their income. In 2008, CCP probably has lost money. A lot of money.
Quote:
Financial Information Profitability CCP reported a pre-tax profit of USD 4,487,760 in 2007, compared with USD 11,090,575 in 2006. It reported and after-tax profit of USD 2,998,225 in 2007, compared with USD 8,977,774 in 2006. Revenues Total revenues in 2007 amounted to USD 37,155,107, compared with USD 26,308,826 for the previous year. This reflects the substantial increase in active subscribers during the period. Expenses Total expenses amounted to USD 32,711,256 during 2007, compared with USD 14,678,181 for the previous year. This reflects the growth of the corporation during the last year. The number of employees grew from 135 to 283 in 2007. Advances have been made in the development of EVE-Online and other future products. Outsourcing has been increased according to planned milestones. Operating profit, financial expenses and taxes The GroupÆs profit before financial expenses for 2007 was USD 4,443,851, compared with USD 11,630,644 for the previous year. Financial income amounted to USD 1,971,048 for 2007, compared with USD 37,630 for the previous year. Financial expenses amounted to USD (1,927,139), compared with USD (577,699) for the previous year. Income tax was USD 1,489,505 in 2007,compared with USD 2,112,801 for the previous year.
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Demonos Silentium
|
Posted - 2008.10.17 20:45:00 -
[4373]
nice to see some actual facts on this topic. well played sir bagehi ^^
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dobi woobie
|
Posted - 2008.10.17 20:47:00 -
[4374]
because im bored since this thread is startet ther should be around 400 threads startet about ghoost training.
the number is based that between thread http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=896900 and http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=897000 there are 8 thread about ghost 4 of them locked 4 of the just hidden
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10of10
|
Posted - 2008.10.17 20:54:00 -
[4375]
Players = 0 CCP = 100
They win with silence. Game over. |
Squirrrel
Gallente Squirrrel Industries
|
Posted - 2008.10.17 21:02:00 -
[4376]
Originally by: Joskken Inx There's no other MMO like Eve, and there is nowhere I'd rather go than here. I've said it many, many times during this week it's not the "nerf" that ****ed me off. It's calling us in no uncertain terms "exploiters" for using a "bug" all this time.
They do this with aspects of the game they don't document, like the gang-war mechanics etc.
The game prides itself on being sandbox, and then suddenly players are exploiting something or other. People get banned or warned for using a game mechanic that there is no official explaination of and for a long time it wasn't considered an exploit.
This time, it WAS explained, was advertised and was apparently legal. Yet it's a bug. (Saying that, many other bugs have existed in this bloody game for 5 years, so maybe they have a slight case!)
Training a cap pilot via the ghosting method is hardly free, and you only get skills (possibly RP and market orders, but then most would-be cap pilots arent trained heavily in research or trade.) Even if you used all of the Free 7 day offers (and were lucky enough that they coincided with the end of your training) you'd still have to fork out a fair amount of cash or ISK on GTCs to get to fly these ships, let alone fly them well.
Adapt or die only works for so long until some other hooker fits the bill to take the cash from the paying customer.
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Empirah
|
Posted - 2008.10.17 21:07:00 -
[4377]
Edited by: Empirah on 17/10/2008 21:06:55
On the upside its probably good. This game takes up way too many hours of my time anyways and this news has completely changed the way I feel about playing the game now. Thank you CCP for helping to break my mindless addiction and wake me up.
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Captain Hudson
Caldari Caldari Provisions
|
Posted - 2008.10.17 21:16:00 -
[4378]
Edited by: Captain Hudson on 17/10/2008 21:23:32 Same 20 people and their ghost training alts still posting in this thread?
You can thank the minority who has ruined it for the majority of you guys, just take a look a the character fourm, its crazy how many are for sale nowadays.
Bin Laden Dancing |
Doomsday
|
Posted - 2008.10.17 21:18:00 -
[4379]
Originally by: Empirah Edited by: Empirah on 17/10/2008 21:06:55
On the upside its probably good. This game takes up way too many hours of my time anyways and this news has completely changed the way I feel about playing the game now. Thank you CCP for helping to break my mindless addiction and wake me up.
This.
And this will be my last post i think. My two accounts expire tomorrow.
And no, you can't have my stuff. Transfered walled to a fanboy that will stay (i think). The rest will go down when CCP deletes disabled accounts.
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Doc Fury
|
Posted - 2008.10.17 21:23:00 -
[4380]
Edited by: Doc Fury on 17/10/2008 23:04:01
Originally by: Lady Godgifu Why is this thread still hidden???
It's quite simple really, CCP does not want the major search engines to be able to spider this thread easily because there is a lot of negative PR here which would quickly rank at the top of common search results related to EVE and CCP via google, yahoo and etc.
Not to mention that anyone who hasn't already heard about this recent change and drama would be drawn to this thread while checking out other non-related threads in "EVE Information Portal" simply because of how freaking LARGE it has become. Can't really blame CCP for not wanting people to know about how deceptive they have been (again).
Shame on you CCP.. er, I meant DCP (Damage Control Productions).
The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the ho's and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!' and I'll look down, and whisper 'no.' |
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Squirrrel
Gallente Squirrrel Industries
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Posted - 2008.10.17 21:24:00 -
[4381]
Edited by: Squirrrel on 17/10/2008 21:30:08
Originally by: Captain Hudson Same 20 people and their ghost training alts still posting in this thread?
Bah... you exposed us. :(
All I can say is, "Thereæs no way to spin it and we wonæt add insult to injury by trying to do so. It was a mistake on our part and for that we sincerely and humbly apologize. "
<leaves with tail between legs>
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BIind
|
Posted - 2008.10.17 21:41:00 -
[4382]
Edited by: BIind on 17/10/2008 21:46:09
Originally by: Captain Hudson You can thank the minority who has ruined it for the majority of you guys, just take a look a the character fourm, its crazy how many are for sale nowadays.
Ya. The odd thing is that this trend had to be apparent a long while ago when those chars, which are for sale now, started ghost training bs5 and whatnot. It would be trivial to block character transfer for chars which haven't been subbed for longer than 3 months or so but I guess it does not matter.
Quote: Same 20 people and their ghost training alts still posting in this thread?
Well, seeing how people whom I told about this were totally oblivious to the fact, I think it's safe to say that CCP did a great job of burying this thread under a 2 page sticky and a ton of fluff blogs into total obscurity. So I guess it's just us, yes. A useless stunt, they'll just have to deal with this again when the returning players figure out what's going on months from now.
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Dos Cerveza
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Posted - 2008.10.17 23:05:00 -
[4383]
Edited by: Dos Cerveza on 17/10/2008 23:07:49 The timing is suspicious, but having paid for 3 characters for the last 3 years even while away on submarines....and missing a little skill time....i am still here and sub'ed up.
This will prolly only affect people who exploit the system i spose
not a problem as i can see
a skill queue would be nice though...for those of us with real jobs....vitriol erupts
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Kransthow
The Scope
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Posted - 2008.10.17 23:09:00 -
[4384]
It's pretty simple really...
Back in the day CCP had ghost training to keep player retention high by basically subsidisng semi-active players with a gift to return to in the game. This was unfair to active subscribers but they weren't as likely to leave as the semi-active players and CCP couldn't afford to lose the irregular subscriptions from the semi-active players.
Now days CCP is stronger financially and has decided that they can afford to remove this player retention tactic in favour of equality between active and semi-active subscribers.
tl;dr CCP has chosen in favour of equality between active and semi-active subscribers over the player retention tactic of ghost training.
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Zanquis
Caldari Universal Exports FOUNDATI0N
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Posted - 2008.10.17 23:20:00 -
[4385]
they are basically trying to hide this thread and hope it goes away, kinda like they quickly shoved this change out the door with a half baked poorly thought out announcement which offended our intelligence.
I believe I read somewhere that ccp is not going to reverse this decision and they fully expect the backlash to subside and be forgotten, then business as usual. ---------------------------------------------- EvE Personality Test
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Minsc
Gallente A.W.M Libertas Fidelitas
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Posted - 2008.10.17 23:21:00 -
[4386]
Originally by: Bagehi Edited by: Bagehi on 17/10/2008 20:41:14
Originally by: Col Carter
This is far more likely to be a "need" issue than a "greed" issue, but CCP can hardly turn around and say so if that is the case.
In laymen's terms, these financial numbers (from CCP's website) are going the wrong way. Their costs are increasing much faster than their income. In 2008, CCP probably has lost money. A lot of money.
Quote:
Financial Information Profitability CCP reported a pre-tax profit of USD 4,487,760 in 2007, compared with USD 11,090,575 in 2006. It reported and after-tax profit of USD 2,998,225 in 2007, compared with USD 8,977,774 in 2006. Revenues Total revenues in 2007 amounted to USD 37,155,107, compared with USD 26,308,826 for the previous year. This reflects the substantial increase in active subscribers during the period. Expenses Total expenses amounted to USD 32,711,256 during 2007, compared with USD 14,678,181 for the previous year. This reflects the growth of the corporation during the last year. The number of employees grew from 135 to 283 in 2007. Advances have been made in the development of EVE-Online and other future products. Outsourcing has been increased according to planned milestones. Operating profit, financial expenses and taxes The GroupÆs profit before financial expenses for 2007 was USD 4,443,851, compared with USD 11,630,644 for the previous year. Financial income amounted to USD 1,971,048 for 2007, compared with USD 37,630 for the previous year. Financial expenses amounted to USD (1,927,139), compared with USD (577,699) for the previous year. Income tax was USD 1,489,505 in 2007,compared with USD 2,112,801 for the previous year.
Yeah and that huge jump in expenses had nothing to do with them buying WhiteWolf...nope nothing at all I'm sure.
Try again.
Originally by: Sharkbait please for the love of god read the dam stickies
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Serpenta EVE
|
Posted - 2008.10.17 23:38:00 -
[4387]
Originally by: Carsidava Nope, sorry. This doesn't wash.
If you disable skill training for inactive accounts, why aren't you also disabling market orders from inactive accounts? Why aren't you also disabling RP accumulation from inactive accounts? Why aren't you disabling dividend payouts to inactive accounts?
Why are only skill points being hit?
Sorry CCP, this is an entirely unsatisfactory answer.
CCP has shown not only by their continued silence on this subject, not even being willing to acknowledge this subject exists, but actively locking (and banning) people who push for an answer that they don't care. Their only concern in this issue is skills.
2 forum accounts banned for pushing this issue in General. Working on 3, lets see if they can find the fourth (lol).
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StinkFinger
Caldari State War Academy
|
Posted - 2008.10.17 23:46:00 -
[4388]
the unbumpable thread!
Originally by: Karanth That's like sitting on your hand till it goes numb, so it's like a stranger. It's not as satisfying, and I'LL know the difference.
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Doc Fury
|
Posted - 2008.10.17 23:52:00 -
[4389]
Originally by: Minsc
Originally by: Bagehi Edited by: Bagehi on 17/10/2008 20:41:14
Originally by: Col Carter
This is far more likely to be a "need" issue than a "greed" issue, but CCP can hardly turn around and say so if that is the case.
In laymen's terms, these financial numbers (from CCP's website) are going the wrong way. Their costs are increasing much faster than their income. In 2008, CCP probably has lost money. A lot of money.
Quote:
Financial Information Profitability CCP reported a pre-tax profit of USD 4,487,760 in 2007, compared with USD 11,090,575 in 2006. It reported and after-tax profit of USD 2,998,225 in 2007, compared with USD 8,977,774 in 2006. Revenues Total revenues in 2007 amounted to USD 37,155,107, compared with USD 26,308,826 for the previous year. This reflects the substantial increase in active subscribers during the period. Expenses Total expenses amounted to USD 32,711,256 during 2007, compared with USD 14,678,181 for the previous year. This reflects the growth of the corporation during the last year. The number of employees grew from 135 to 283 in 2007. Advances have been made in the development of EVE-Online and other future products. Outsourcing has been increased according to planned milestones. Operating profit, financial expenses and taxes The GroupÆs profit before financial expenses for 2007 was USD 4,443,851, compared with USD 11,630,644 for the previous year. Financial income amounted to USD 1,971,048 for 2007, compared with USD 37,630 for the previous year. Financial expenses amounted to USD (1,927,139), compared with USD (577,699) for the previous year. Income tax was USD 1,489,505 in 2007,compared with USD 2,112,801 for the previous year.
Yeah and that huge jump in expenses had nothing to do with them buying WhiteWolf...nope nothing at all I'm sure.
Try again.
And like I've said many times before:
Buying a Giant Custom aquarium for their offices and flying a herd of geeks to Iceland regularly costs money..
Acquiring WhiteWolf may also soon prove to be an Albatross around their collective necks.
The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the ho's and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!' and I'll look down, and whisper 'no.' |
Zooooooom
|
Posted - 2008.10.18 00:42:00 -
[4390]
You think that after you greedy bastards upped the price for game costs by ripping us off with those lame 60 day time codes and exterminating the 30 day and 90 day, you would at least give us poor people some mercy by allowing us to ghost train for a few days until we can find enough penny's to continue our subscription.
-1 account for Eve. The game is getting a bit stale anyways. All the nerfs...<_<
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Istvaan Shogaatsu
Caldari Guiding Hand Social Club
|
Posted - 2008.10.18 00:52:00 -
[4391]
You're all kinda acting like a bunch of stupid jerkoffs.
I've used this newly termed "ghost training" extensively, and figured that since it was allowed, it was OK by CCP. I thought it was pretty much great, that they did this for players with limited schedules. But, turns out it was a bug, and I got about 20 million skillpoints from training while I was unsubscribed, which CCP never meant me to have. CCP could have reversed all prior ghost training to level the playing field, but they didn't. The rules just changed. Eve players are known for their ability to adapt - those who don't adapt die and quit. So... adapt.
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Hong Lihua
|
Posted - 2008.10.18 01:02:00 -
[4392]
PLEAZE CAN I HAVE YOUR STUFF OR ALL YOUR ISK?!!!! |
Joskken Inx
PURE Legion Pure.
|
Posted - 2008.10.18 01:04:00 -
[4393]
Originally by: Istvaan Shogaatsu You're all kinda acting like a bunch of stupid jerkoffs.
I've used this newly termed "ghost training" extensively, and figured that since it was allowed, it was OK by CCP. I thought it was pretty much great, that they did this for players with limited schedules. But, turns out it was a bug, and I got about 20 million skillpoints from training while I was unsubscribed, which CCP never meant me to have. CCP could have reversed all prior ghost training to level the playing field, but they didn't. The rules just changed. Eve players are known for their ability to adapt - those who don't adapt die and quit. So... adapt.
Just wanted to quote you :]
Other than that, apparently it's fine to get some nice RP from unsubbed alts, so for that far off day that may come, I'm going to max this out. And put up tons of 90 day buy orders. And blow up a Domi in Jita (no srsly I got like 4 to get rid of) ------------------------------------------------ "Skills continue training even if you are logged off or if your account is inactive (in the second scenario you can't change skill training, though). |
Jenneon Vesconi
|
Posted - 2008.10.18 01:10:00 -
[4394]
As many have said in the now 146(?) pages, this makes sense if there is going to be a skill queue. I, for one, would be happy with being able to set a skill to train up to a certain level. In over 4 years I have used ghost training for almost 30 days. But, please CCP let me train more than one character per account. I want to get Black Market Trading to 5!
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Istvaan Shogaatsu
Caldari Guiding Hand Social Club
|
Posted - 2008.10.18 01:33:00 -
[4395]
Originally by: Braenca I can't beleive no-one has said this yet...
NEGATIVE GHOST-TRAINER, THE PATTERN IS FULL!
Ahaha I was waiting for that ahahahahahahahahaahaha ;D
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Noskill McCheese
|
Posted - 2008.10.18 01:47:00 -
[4396]
I would just like to say, that I'm not renewing any accounts. I will not pay for 40+ day skills. I'd like to take this moment to also point other like minded individuals to darkfallonline.com, this will be the next MMO for me and it has a much better character building system with all the good things we like in EVE such as conquerable land and full loot pvp. Check it out. Peace, suckaz.
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Gober Pile
Minmatar Greatly Reducing Inflation Every Fight
|
Posted - 2008.10.18 02:16:00 -
[4397]
Total and utter balls
It shames em to say it but CCP you just knocked SOE off the top of the Jackasses who ruined a good thing list
Needless to say you come out with tripe like this to justify a money grabbing exercise (which is all it is)
GIVE US A SKILL QUEUE AND I WILL GLADLY RESUB MY ACCOUNTS
How much did you guys lose in the bank of iceland farce hmm?
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BodyThief
|
Posted - 2008.10.18 02:45:00 -
[4398]
Edited by: BodyThief on 18/10/2008 02:58:24 I think CCP is quiet 'cause they are busy to find the way out of this maze. And I'm sure, they are listen to our whines, and seek this topic for possible solutions too. Why I think that? I just renewed this account, and checked my learning status. As it seems, I didn't loss all the past 3 days in training. Maybe I'm lucky, and that was only another bug or wrong implementation of the new code. But I wish to think that it wasn't an accident. I think they delayed this self-killer step or better: they implemented a grace period for lazy/busy/dumb people like me to avoid the further escalation of this hoo-ha.
Sorry for my bad english. Fly safe: BodyThief
Edit: 2008-10-30 16:22:11 - EvE Time ) >> (2008-10-31 14:35:14 - EvE Time )
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Pooosah
|
Posted - 2008.10.18 04:07:00 -
[4399]
Its been a nice run. Forwarded all my iskies to corp mates.
3 accounts, 2 years subscribed on average. Down the crapper.
Part of me wishes to rant/rave at CCP for such behavior. But mainly, I'm just tired of these arbitrary dev changes. I could adapt, but its come to the point where I'd rather find another game where I feel that the Devs actually care about their players. |
No'Wai GoGo
|
Posted - 2008.10.18 05:27:00 -
[4400]
ah so when i deploy and maybe access a comp every few weeks..i get to be hammered. ty ccp. im glad i returned after u deleted my old accnt after a few months while started alts never played by some still exist, you are my heroes.
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Raymond Sterns
Utopian Research I.E.L. The ENTITY.
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Posted - 2008.10.18 05:36:00 -
[4401]
Lol, they locked the voting thread. _ Hooray for shitty marketing moves.
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Muschiu
|
Posted - 2008.10.18 05:40:00 -
[4402]
Originally by: Raymond Sterns Lol, they locked the voting thread.
lol, yea, and the only answer was "Please keep the discussion to the relevant thread" RELEVANT THREAD = HIDEN THREAD
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Mika Meroko
Minmatar Crayon Posting Inc
|
Posted - 2008.10.18 06:31:00 -
[4403]
meh, very simple:
Skill training matters,
buy orders/contract other stuff = meh, doesnt make that much of a difference..
leaving those orders for 1 year ... yeah, good luck ...(the limit is 2 weeks on contract and market is 90 days max too...so theres already a limit..)
skill training... yeah, I can put in 9 months worth of skilltraining EASY....
and that 9 months of skills trained make a HUGE difference than any contract/buysell order...
meh,
simple:
you pay to get the REAL benefits. nuff said...
Originally by: CCP Atropos I pod people because there's money to be made in selling tears.
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Lord Fitz
Project Amargosa
|
Posted - 2008.10.18 06:42:00 -
[4404]
Originally by: Mika Meroko meh, very simple:
Skill training matters,
buy orders/contract other stuff = meh, doesnt make that much of a difference..
leaving those orders for 1 year ... yeah, good luck ...(the limit is 2 weeks on contract and market is 90 days max too...so theres already a limit..)
skill training... yeah, I can put in 9 months worth of skilltraining EASY....
and that 9 months of skills trained make a HUGE difference than any contract/buysell order...
you pay to get the REAL benefits. nuff said...
Most people will only have a couple of week skill training when their accounts expire, those some a month skill. Very very few may have 2 month skill (of which there are not all that many, and can only be gained after you've done many many shorter skills first. So 9 months of skill training ? You realise they actually need to pay to change the skill ? Or to actually login ?
Cancelling buy/sell/factory orders if an account is inactive is a little stupid, (equivalent in SP would be removing SP since you lose brokerage and things when orders cancelled or factory orders cancelled, not to mention they can be done 'for corp'.
RP gain on the other hand, shouldn't be done while a char is inactive THIS actually does effect game balance (whereas skills do not, they merely effect char trading which is meta-gaming not the game itself, and since you can effectively buy isk there, char trading is the least of anyone's concern).
Originally by: CCP t0rfifrans CCP is a greedy money chewing monster
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Lord Fitz
Project Amargosa
|
Posted - 2008.10.18 06:47:00 -
[4405]
Originally by: Doomsday
Originally by: Sandy Minge Edited by: Sandy Minge on 17/10/2008 16:32:55
Originally by: Kerfira Edited by: Kerfira on 17/10/2008 12:21:24 EVE: Month 1: Whiner pays for play time and skill training. Month 2: Whiner demands free skill training because he paid last month.
Restaurant: Month 1: Whiner pays for meal and drinks. Month 2: Whiner demands free drinks because he paid last month.
Both are companies selling their products. Why is one required to give away theirs for free?
I go to clubs and restaurants quite a lot (at least 1x per week). So I usually give large tips and, in exchange, I get free drinks, free entrance, guestlist listings, vip accesses. The day my fellow bartenders or restaurant managers refuse to give me a freeby here and there I am going to reevaluate my clubbing habits.
CCP want there tips monthly and regular.
A man who chases two rabbits catches none.
Originally by: CCP t0rfifrans CCP is a greedy money chewing monster
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Sigil Luvarh
|
Posted - 2008.10.18 07:04:00 -
[4406]
I believe CCP did the right thing. Good for you CCP. Ignore the crazy people.
Everyone is whining and *****ing about the change. I look at it and say, "Hmmm we're getting rid of the freeloaders now eh?" I've gotten a couple of months out of it. But times change, sometimes for the harder. Comeon people, Eve-online is the toughest most bloody hostile game in the world right now and the players are all wusses? Seriously, just take those 5 years as a bloody bonus and get on with the damned game.
I pay real money just like the rest of you, and in fact I pay a higher percentage of my monthly wage than any of you can choose to compare with. If you make roughly 1500 USD a month its only 1% of your income. I pay 4% of my monthly income. Sheesh, it's a damned service. Pay for it. The game is bloody good and you guys know it. There is no reason to actually fuss, frankly, it hurt more when noobs got 1 mil skillpoints when i started with 23 k.
This whole post is wasted seriously, because no one listens to reason. Where else can you find entertainment for 15 bucks a month that lasts for 30 days? I mean seriously, we even have less downtime than WoW and they HAVE to sit in front of their coms and grind all the time anyways.
Sheesh.
Good luck have fun. I'm with CCP all the way, even warhammer online is nothing compared to this.
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SPQRMocton
Minmatar Calmarr Technologies
|
Posted - 2008.10.18 08:02:00 -
[4407]
Edited by: SPQRMocton on 18/10/2008 08:02:56 Well all I can say about it is that those who say they are done w their accounts, don't forget to recycle your characters please ,as all those crocodile tears will prob cause issues w the database , but seriously why should anyone benefit from the ghost train . The whole essence of eve is skillpoints , regardless of what you train it's all about the skillpoints , I say no free skillpoints and the pack on whiners can **** off and die. Fly reckless and take chances..............it's more fun |
Don Shadow
Viper Squad
|
Posted - 2008.10.18 08:07:00 -
[4408]
Originally by: Sigil Luvarh I believe CCP did the right thing. Good for you CCP. Ignore the crazy people.
Everyone is whining and *****ing about the change. I look at it and say, "Hmmm we're getting rid of the freeloaders now eh?" I've gotten a couple of months out of it. But times change, sometimes for the harder. Comeon people, Eve-online is the toughest most bloody hostile game in the world right now and the players are all wusses? Seriously, just take those 5 years as a bloody bonus and get on with the damned game.
I pay real money just like the rest of you, and in fact I pay a higher percentage of my monthly wage than any of you can choose to compare with. If you make roughly 1500 USD a month its only 1% of your income. I pay 4% of my monthly income. Sheesh, it's a damned service. Pay for it. The game is bloody good and you guys know it. There is no reason to actually fuss, frankly, it hurt more when noobs got 1 mil skillpoints when i started with 23 k.
This whole post is wasted seriously, because no one listens to reason. Where else can you find entertainment for 15 bucks a month that lasts for 30 days? I mean seriously, we even have less downtime than WoW and they HAVE to sit in front of their coms and grind all the time anyways.
Sheesh.
Good luck have fun. I'm with CCP all the way, even warhammer online is nothing compared to this.
it's funny how thigs are going in this thread: even if allot of ppl said already that the big problem it's not that "ghost(INACTIVE) training" but the way CCP implemented this change; and some more things: at first ccp locked the original "response" thread, then they just hide the second one, after that they used ninja edit/delete, now we have allot of ppl posting how this is a verry nice/usseful/expected move...
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Staberind
|
Posted - 2008.10.18 08:09:00 -
[4409]
Edited by: Staberind on 18/10/2008 08:10:31
Originally by: Sigil Luvarh I believe CCP did the right thing. <snip> Edit for logic.
This whole post is wasted seriously, </snip>
Indeed, yet you felt a strong desire to add to it, let your feelings be known, just like the rest of the people here, bar [ahem] certain alts.
Lots of peeps are bothered by the selling point/feature cancellation, still more are bothered by the way this company is handling this. so, by your logic, to be unhappy with being reamed with no reach-round makes us crazy? well, good for you, as it seems you are getting your wish, we are being ignored.
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Brother Welcome
Amarr Suddenly Ninjas
|
Posted - 2008.10.18 08:16:00 -
[4410]
Edited by: Brother Welcome on 18/10/2008 08:17:17
Originally by: Minsc Yeah and that huge jump in expenses had nothing to do with them buying WhiteWolf...nope nothing at all I'm sure.
Try again.
So you're saying CCP took a big chunk of our Eve subs, that we hoped went into improving the game that we in fact play, and they spunked it on buying an emo-fantasy game?
-vk
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Sigil Luvarh
|
Posted - 2008.10.18 08:28:00 -
[4411]
Edited by: Sigil Luvarh on 18/10/2008 08:30:24
Originally by: Staberind Edited by: Staberind on 18/10/2008 08:10:31
Originally by: Sigil Luvarh I believe CCP did the right thing. <snip> Edit for logic.
This whole post is wasted seriously, </snip>
Indeed, yet you felt a strong desire to add to it, let your feelings be known, just like the rest of the people here, bar [ahem] certain alts.
Lots of peeps are bothered by the selling point/feature cancellation, still more are bothered by the way this company is handling this. so, by your logic, to be unhappy with being reamed with no reach-round makes us crazy? well, good for you, as it seems you are getting your wish, we are being ignored.
Wonderful ain't it =) Don't know why they're getting so worked up really. Why are they worried about the feature. At least now people will now have to pay for their alts which is a wonderful thing. If they don't pay they can't play if their main char get wardecced in hi-Sec. I think that's fair. But then again my opinion don't matter does it =p, though you were one of the kind people to prove me wrong by actually replying to me.
I think if I were swamped with that many posts, I'd lock the thread read through it, then reopen it to find out what else the crowd had to say. But people are right though, the only way I could find this thread is through a third party site =p.
Cheers You noticed me. =)
Sigil
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Chani Fedaykin
|
Posted - 2008.10.18 08:51:00 -
[4412]
it is plain pathetic to lock the voting thread in the assembly hall forum with the reason to keep the discussion in this thread.
these two threads have two different purposes - as well as a different audience per se...
very good crm ccp :P |
BIind
|
Posted - 2008.10.18 09:11:00 -
[4413]
Originally by: CCP Wrangler
Originally by: Seth Ruin
Originally by: Son Korhal Edited by: Son Korhal on 14/10/2008 17:52:30
Originally by: CCP Wrangler Test2
Lost for words on another epic ccp fail idea?
Edit: Ok wrangler likes to delete his own posts.
Makes me think the "test" posts are possibly Wrangler trying to fix this thread? Could be that it disappeared entirely by accident, and they're actually trying to fix it
Yes, we're trying to fix it but we'll need to have web take a look at it. It's still accessible through the other sticky though.
Any updates from "web"?
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NereSky
Gallente Trinity Nova Trinity Nova Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.10.18 09:22:00 -
[4414]
Originally by: Chani Fedaykin it is plain pathetic to lock the voting thread in the assembly hall forum with the reason to keep the discussion in this thread.
these two threads have two different purposes - as well as a different audience per se...
very good crm ccp :P
I think its absolutely disgusting locking a voting thread - removing non vote posts yes but locking the thread o.0
I was under the impression it was the players opputunity to be able to vote on issues Its irrelevant whether the topic is agreed or not - but this clearly shows CCP's attitude in ignoring issues and sweeping them under the the 'magic' rug
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Frances Ducoir
Gallente Bounty Hunter - Dark Legion
|
Posted - 2008.10.18 09:42:00 -
[4415]
Originally by: Lady Godgifu
Originally by: Frances Ducoir
Originally by: Doomsday Its just so easy. CCPs game, CCPs rules. Just like in every other MMO: "Adapt or Die."
I pay them to play a game. A game with a feature, which was avaiable over 5 years. They disabled it, i dont pay them anymore... ... easy enough isnt it?
Keep this "Adapt or Die" Crap for yourself. I'AM THE COSTUMER. I dont have to adapt to anything, especcially not disabled features, which are now declared as a bug and cause outrages within the whole comunity. This is ridiculous. Shame on you CCP.
fair play dude, I'm not bothered renewing either, hell I'm not playing atm and I sure as hell ain't going to pay to skill train. Got 3/4 games on my pc atm that I haven't gotten around to playing. Might check out ambulation when it comes out on one of those trial accounts but that certainly wasn't keeping me playing, lag and the time sink that is Eve is are my main issues with the game.
The fact they removed flexibility with gtc's and now ghost training just killed it for me.
thats exactly the same way i see it. i played the game because of its flexibility and the possibility to go away for 1-2 months, let it rest, come back and still have progressed. this was one of EVEs main advantages over other MMOGs.
*snip* Signiture remoted because it contained profanity - hutch |
killerco
Gallente Dutch T2 Production
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Posted - 2008.10.18 09:44:00 -
[4416]
Good move on the switching off the training for accounts that does not pay! Well done! It wasn't fair too those who pay money too play and train!
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NereSky
Gallente Trinity Nova Trinity Nova Alliance
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Posted - 2008.10.18 09:59:00 -
[4417]
Originally by: killerco Good move on the switching off the training for accounts that does not pay! Well done! It wasn't fair too those who pay money too play and train!
'Blinkered view' 4tl
You need to look at the bigger picture, firstly i dont ghost train but i dont agree about CCP's decision for the following reasons clearly explained throughout this thread.
You make it sound as though players are on a free ride with Ghost training well tbh they are not they still pay subs and its those subs CCP will lose and if CCP lose income then so does the game and if the game loses income so we lose the shiny updates etc
A lot of players tend to go on various breaks for various reasons , business holidays and basically having a rest from the game they either stop their sub while away (lets say on a 6 wk business trip) setting a lon skill say 45 days, they dont log in so they are not enjoying the game play but the 'ghost training' ensured on their return and reactivation of the account that horrible skill was completed.
Maybe 1 month sub lost out of 12 - ccp have still received 11 months of subs,
You say its unfair - how can it be the player isnt playing the game for free - just away from home for a month or so, the player may even forget to renew the subscription before going on holiday at least the skill continues to be trained.
Examples of why its a bad idea scrapping the ghost training can be found everywhere, whether ghost training affects the individual or not is irrelevant but you have to see past what affects 'you' but what affects the game ie less subs coming in - accounts cancelled = less money coing in
Less money coming in = cutbacks
Cutbacks = 'Killerco' complaining about service which has been reduced because 'Ghost training' was removed
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Harudan
Minmatar Tribal Liberation Force
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Posted - 2008.10.18 10:09:00 -
[4418]
Training Cruiser V. If it isn't done in a month I am not re-subscribing - Ever. Simple as that CCP.
Maybe if this game was ú8.99 per month (Like the most successful MMO ever) I could stomach leaving the subscription running while I BOUGHT the skill.
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Tivookz
Caldari IMPERIAL SENATE Pure.
|
Posted - 2008.10.18 10:15:00 -
[4419]
This is an outrage on a massive scale.
You devs should all be treated like the "GREED" victim in the movie Seven or Se7en.
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Sandy Minge
|
Posted - 2008.10.18 10:20:00 -
[4420]
Edited by: Sandy Minge on 18/10/2008 10:23:35
Originally by: killerco Good move on the switching off the training for accounts that does not pay! Well done! It wasn't fair too those who pay money too play and train!
I've seen loads of these posts recently. But how is it unfair at all to ppl who keep their subscriptions active 365/a ? Does it hurt the others if you ghost skill? No - Because even accounts which are active 75%/a and played 0-75%/a are a better revenue to CCP than no accounts at all. No - Because inactive accounts cannot log in and hence they do not increase lag - The data they take up for the offline skilling is one line in an XML Table and the algorithm to implement the skilling shouldn't be in a higher complexity class than O(n).
If you guys - back when CCP called it a feature - didn't take advantage of this technique then its all your fault. So don't blame ppl who've been simply a tad smarter than you.
Analogy: If I agree to work a job in RL and get paid $5000/month then I shouldn't be mad at the guy who works the same job for $5500 - Simply because I AGREED to do the job for the amount of money I get paid!
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Gorek Loc
Etherware Heavy Engineering
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Posted - 2008.10.18 10:21:00 -
[4421]
A few links to forums and artcles, discusses this event too. This was done with a quick search on Google:
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/207413
http://www.warhammeralliance.com/forums/showthread.php?t=156195
http://www.massively.com/2008/10/13/ccp-games-kills-ghost-training-on-inactive-eve-accounts/
http://massiveblips.dailyradar.com/story/why_ghost_training_was_disabled/
http://link.removed
These are only a few of the links I found. This proves that ghost training was intended, encouraged and an attractive feature, from a customers point of view.
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Xeronn
Amarr Ordo Drakonis Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2008.10.18 10:21:00 -
[4422]
no response eh?
CCP ghosttrained Ignore VIII all this years?
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NereSky
Gallente Trinity Nova Trinity Nova Alliance
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Posted - 2008.10.18 10:32:00 -
[4423]
Originally by: Xeronn no response eh?
CCP ghosttrained Ignore VIII all this years?
Possibly, or just burying their heads in the sand, hoping it will blow away again, but theres only so many times they can do this and each time someone else leaves,
Locking the 'voting thread' in the assembly hall hasnt helped much imo another example of CCP not caring even though they advertise a logo of 'We care more we work harder' http://www.ccpgames.com/
Well they have proven they dont care and also proven they work harder at not caring :)
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Gorek Loc
Etherware Heavy Engineering
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Posted - 2008.10.18 10:35:00 -
[4424]
Originally by: Xeronn no response eh?
CCP ghosttrained Ignore VIII all this years?
haha... they are exploiting the feature themselves... this thread has been training since the bug was unveiled to the world!
But seriously, how about making a a new thread with this discussion, without the hidden part?
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Tivookz
Caldari IMPERIAL SENATE Pure.
|
Posted - 2008.10.18 10:35:00 -
[4425]
Originally by: Harudan Training Cruiser V. If it isn't done in a month I am not re-subscribing - Ever. Simple as that CCP.
Maybe if this game was ú8.99 per month (Like the most successful MMO ever) I could stomach leaving the subscription running while I BOUGHT the skill.
It's already in.
It cancelled my Dreadnought lvl 5 skill train 2 days prior to completion ( oct 15th was day of implemention, oct 17 was day of completion of skill )
The break I took while training dread lvl 5 was a necessary one and I would have cancelled my sub even if I knew I wouldn't be able to continue skilling.
Tiv
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Jimmy Cliff
Dawning Industries
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Posted - 2008.10.18 10:39:00 -
[4426]
Edited by: Jimmy Cliff on 18/10/2008 10:41:16 Somebody mentioned about sending snail-mail to CCCP office...
Here is the adress... hopefully they will be so happy about getting stamps from all over the world, they will reconsider the 'bug-fix'
Headquarters CCP hf. Grandagar=ur 8 101 Reykjavik Iceland
and when we are in Reykjavik anyway for the fanfest, we can pay them a friendly visit too :) bring the snail-mail letter too:
Map of CCP and Reykjavik
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Aikanaro
Gallente Aliastra
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Posted - 2008.10.18 10:43:00 -
[4427]
How can ccp say that it is UNFAIR to other players? Selling a couple gtc for bills of isk is fair? Selling gtc's so you can buy a 2-3year old char is fair?
This at least to say very lame of ccp, and the way they announced this. After 5 years its suddenly a bug that needs to be removed... I mean come on!
I have four chars that will be soon 2 after the accounts expire.
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Waynetta Slob
|
Posted - 2008.10.18 10:50:00 -
[4428]
Originally by: Tivookz
Originally by: Harudan Training Cruiser V. If it isn't done in a month I am not re-subscribing - Ever. Simple as that CCP.
Maybe if this game was ú8.99 per month (Like the most successful MMO ever) I could stomach leaving the subscription running while I BOUGHT the skill.
It's already in.
It cancelled my Dreadnought lvl 5 skill train 2 days prior to completion ( oct 15th was day of implemention, oct 17 was day of completion of skill )
The break I took while training dread lvl 5 was a necessary one and I would have cancelled my sub even if I knew I wouldn't be able to continue skilling.
Tiv
Confirmed, I discovered this on my alt that I reactivated yesterday.
Out of interest, how much is monthly (if you pay 1 month a time) fee in the UK?
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Parasite S
Death Monkey's With Knives
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Posted - 2008.10.18 10:56:00 -
[4429]
Originally by: Sigil Luvarh
Wonderful ain't it =) Don't know why they're getting so worked up really. Why are they worried about the feature. At least now people will now have to pay for their alts which is a wonderful thing. If they don't pay they can't play if their main char get wardecced in hi-Sec. I think that's fair. But then again my opinion don't matter does it =p, though you were one of the kind people to prove me wrong by actually replying to me.
I think if I were swamped with that many posts, I'd lock the thread read through it, then reopen it to find out what else the crowd had to say. But people are right though, the only way I could find this thread is through a third party site =p.
Cheers You noticed me. =)
Sigil
they cant play if their main char get wardecced... lol get a clue. people who stay with 1 account just move their alts to this one.... 3 slots anyone?
Originally by: Sigil Luvarh I believe CCP did the right thing. Good for you CCP. Ignore the crazy people.
Everyone is whining and *****ing about the change. I look at it and say, "Hmmm we're getting rid of the freeloaders now eh?" I've gotten a couple of months out of it. But times change, sometimes for the harder. Comeon people, Eve-online is the toughest most bloody hostile game in the world right now and the players are all wusses? Seriously, just take those 5 years as a bloody bonus and get on with the damned game.
I pay real money just like the rest of you, and in fact I pay a higher percentage of my monthly wage than any of you can choose to compare with. If you make roughly 1500 USD a month its only 1% of your income. I pay 4% of my monthly income. Sheesh, it's a damned service. Pay for it. The game is bloody good and you guys know it. There is no reason to actually fuss, frankly, it hurt more when noobs got 1 mil skillpoints when i started with 23 k.
This whole post is wasted seriously, because no one listens to reason. Where else can you find entertainment for 15 bucks a month that lasts for 30 days? I mean seriously, we even have less downtime than WoW and they HAVE to sit in front of their coms and grind all the time anyways.
Sheesh.
Good luck have fun. I'm with CCP all the way, even warhammer online is nothing compared to this.
"Hmmm we're getting rid of the freeloaders now eh?"
not really but more of the people who run several accounts to get forward in more than 1 bloody way in the game and test it complete out *which is IMPOSSIBLE WITH A SINGLE CHAR!* aswell as people who got burned out and want to take a break for a month or to and come back for more fun *and if you than fall behind anyone you know cause you couldnt train skills it really feels bad... in EVERY MMO....thats what made Eve really SPECIAL!*.
I pay real money just like the rest of you, and in fact I pay a higher percentage....blabla
honestly thats your own choice to pay nothing more.
This whole post is wasted seriously, because no one listens to reason. Where else can you find entertainment for 15 bucks a month that lasts for 30 days? I mean seriously, we even have less downtime than WoW and they HAVE to sit in front of their coms and grind all the time anyways.
30days entertainment for 15 bucks.....yeah excluding downtimes.....excluding extended downtimes.... excluding nodecrashes...excluding watching at the loginscreen for 4 hours....excluding "our logs dont show anything we cant reimburse..."....etc... mmh ever did pos wars? really a lot of fun
grind all the time.... uhm not sure what you do for money but when i want isk for a new ship and expensive stuff i normaly have to grind it. be it ratting, missioning, complexrunning, manufacturing *ok here fails the grindpart maybe but the calculations you have to make upfront in comparsion with daily marketcheck makes easy up for it*
than again its how ccp handles stuff. "accident in accountpage so not accessable" | "accident in thread showing up not fixable"... --------------- DON'T troll me |
Mia Aires
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Posted - 2008.10.18 10:57:00 -
[4430]
$$$
Simple to me... I was thinking to get an 2nd acount - NO THANKS NOW And I don't think to extend my current account.
There have been some revenue/profit related decissions at the expense of us customes the past. - Like the cacellation of 30 and 90 day accounts - Ghost training
Upps or do you (dear clients) think there is a conjunction? [Honi soit qui mal y pense]
CCP look at your custmers!!!!!!
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Parasite S
Death Monkey's With Knives
|
Posted - 2008.10.18 11:01:00 -
[4431]
Originally by: Gorek Loc A few links to forums and artcles, discusses this event too. This was done with a quick search on Google:
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/207413
http://www.warhammeralliance.com/forums/showthread.php?t=156195
http://www.massively.com/2008/10/13/ccp-games-kills-ghost-training-on-inactive-eve-accounts/
http://massiveblips.dailyradar.com/story/why_ghost_training_was_disabled/
http://link.removed
These are only a few of the links I found. This proves that ghost training was intended, encouraged and an attractive feature, from a customers point of view.
maybe cause the people who care are people who stick with eve and that for a long time and dont want to see their best mmorpg changing to the worst they ever had.
infact the links of people you upped there are mostly of people who play several mmo's and move constantly on. thats not like people who are really stick to eve and just want to have once a holiday in year while not falling behind their friends or loosing expensive and long training time you spend over a month in training skills for.... --------------- DON'T troll me |
Deviana Sevidon
Gallente Panta-Rhei United Front Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.10.18 11:08:00 -
[4432]
Remember you have no right on free stuff.
If you paid for the skill training and then CCP just took your money and gave you nothing in return, then I would be on your side, but right now it is the other way around. Too many people farmed Alts with this mechanic and too many people used/abused the mechanic to maximise skill time.
Yes, the whole thing should have been removed 2 years ago, when the same thing was applied to serenity, but character farming was less of a problem on TQ back in the day.
I also cannot understand the emorage about "advertizing" the feature. It was described in one player guide and these player guides were written with the aid of players. It was never, ever activly advertized.
Even if the would have advertised it, which CCP did not, game mechanics change all the time and CCP has every right to make this change, especially if they think the use of this mechanic affects their business in a negative way.
Please do also remember that the influx of high skilled Alt chars is creating balancing problems as well, when suddenly everyone has at least two capital ship capable Alts and a third account from where he supports the other Alts by selling farmed Characters.
So yes, for balancing reasons, the automatic research with agents and market orders should also be put on hold during account inactivity.
For me, the whole carebear stuff of earning ISK is part of the game and if you want to make money than it should be done by playing the game, not by farming ISK, while the account is even inactive.
If you want free stuff, then there are plenty of "free" mmorpg out there, but there you will also soon discover, that nothing is really "free" in the world.
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Zanpt
Caldari
|
Posted - 2008.10.18 11:09:00 -
[4433]
****ing scumsucking ****witted liars! If it wasn't actually intended years ago but just fell out from the way they implemented training, they certainly touted it publicly as an advantage, and people took them at their word. Particularly considering the length of time this feature has been an accepted part of the game, nerfing it now and lying about it and inventing excuses for it just confirms for me the ongoing history of self-serving, dishonest dealing that characterizes CCP.
I only occasionally used this feature because tbh it is difficult to time account expirations with the availability of a long training step. But here is my response to this pile of shit outrage:
I will fine CCP an amount at least three times what I estimate to have been the slight advantage of "ghost training" in the course of a year. I will do this by idling some of my accounts. I will idle accounts for at least three times the periods I might have otherwise gotten some usefulness of "ghost training."
In this regard I am inventing the "ghost subscriber" -- one who denies CCP subscription fees as a penalty for making egregiously stupid, greedy and dishonest policy decisions.
Ah, good... I see I have some account dates coming up in the next few days. I'll cancel them now.
I'm particularly ****ed off because I'm entering the last and painful phase of stage 4 cancer and may have only six months or so to live. I am sensitized to anything that affects how I use my remaining time. A pox on CCP. May your shitty islands drop back into the ocean in a fiery volcanic eruption.
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Janus Duo
Gallente Down In Flames
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Posted - 2008.10.18 11:16:00 -
[4434]
Originally by: Istvaan Shogaatsu You're all kinda acting like a bunch of stupid jerkoffs.
I've used this newly termed "ghost training" extensively, and figured that since it was allowed, it was OK by CCP. I thought it was pretty much great, that they did this for players with limited schedules. But, turns out it was a bug, and I got about 20 million skillpoints from training while I was unsubscribed, which CCP never meant me to have. CCP could have reversed all prior ghost training to level the playing field, but they didn't. The rules just changed. Eve players are known for their ability to adapt - those who don't adapt die and quit. So... adapt.
Wow, and all this time I actually thought you were smart. You're actually EATING DCP's bull shit!
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Mezikk
Earned In Blood
|
Posted - 2008.10.18 11:19:00 -
[4435]
Well I think the main reason this sucks is because not many people play the game all the time, they will take breaks. Its really nice to come back to the game with something new to fly or do.
I have never, ever seen anyone complain about this feature, or view it as an exploit. On the contrary, it is a selling point of the game.
I doubt it was a move to make more money on CCP's behalf mainly because it won't. There will be less accounts and less people returning. Only way they could make some profit from it is if they just posted it to get a bunch of accounts back quickly then change their minds at a later date.
Mez
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Borneous
|
Posted - 2008.10.18 11:43:00 -
[4436]
I do get that we life in an economic world and that companies are made to make money. The point is that this feature had been around for like 5 years. Most players in EVE, play for like 1-2 years. After that they will quit or do another mmorg. The fact that players have more accounts is because of the fact that CCP disabled skill training in the current active account for second or third character. In my opinion it would be better to enable this function and increase the monthly fee to compensate it. This way the player keeps his account active, because he needs something to play/trade with. We got to do with an economic crisis; most of the players would understand that. You have to think about how you make the game attractive to people. They are you costumers! If they donÆt feel the need to come back then you did a bad job.
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Sky Marshal
State Protectorate
|
Posted - 2008.10.18 11:46:00 -
[4437]
Edited by: Sky Marshal on 18/10/2008 11:52:41
Originally by: Kerfira EVE: Month 1: Whiner pays for play time and skill training. Month 2: Whiner demands free skill training because he paid last month.
Restaurant: Month 1: Whiner pays for meal and drinks. Month 2: Whiner demands free drinks because he paid last month.
Both are companies selling their products. Why is one required to give away theirs for free?
EVE: Month 1: Customer pays for play time and skill training. Month 2: Customer had free skill training because he paid last month, but he is not able to play anymore. Month 3: See Month 2, the player want return in the game because his skill is completed since a moment.
Mobicarte/Others call companies: Moment 1/Month 1 : Customer pays a card to have a phone number for his mobile phone, be able to call everyone for 15€ maximum, but be able to receive unlimited calls from everyone for 6 months, freely. Month 3 : Customer can still receive calls for free but he used all his emission credits, he must pay to be able to make new calls, but decide to not do it for the moment (his choice). Month 5 : Can still receive calls, but he decides to buy new credits.
This is unfair about any phone user who pay monthly subscription, isn't it ?
Both are companies selling their products. Curiously, they are not near the bankrupt...
CCP just make a decision : Stop the training 3 days after the expiration of the account.
So in others words, limit the Ghost Training to 3 days. This stop all abuses, but also erase the unique caracteristic to this game.
CCP can make the limitation to 20 days. This don't permit to skill Carrier V, unless you pay more often (or BS V entirely etc...), to reinitialise the limitation, but this would still keep the unique feature of EvE to permit anyone bored to make a break without lose too much time.
Return to the game with the idea that I am near the possibility to use HAS or others ships is more incensitive than "EvE is a good game", because EvE is not free of annoying problems who can change the player motivation to come back.
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IR Scoutar
Caldari State War Academy
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Posted - 2008.10.18 11:47:00 -
[4438]
Originally by: Deviana Sevidon stuffs
please reread the thread to get some more clues as to why people are a bit more bothered
btw lol panicnewsletter even that completly bs "laser crafts" think nobody could care less about is in the newsletter lmao
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Face deBouc
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Posted - 2008.10.18 11:58:00 -
[4439]
Cool i'have post in a 147 pages thread
Now, please CCP shoot the ghost market orders, ghost R&D and any other ghost.
Thanks, Best regards, A Customer
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Joseph Snite
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Posted - 2008.10.18 12:10:00 -
[4440]
I understand where people are comming from on both sides. People who have been playing EVE a few years, are saying go ahead and get rid of ghost training! why? because it means older characters are worth more. and maybe they dont have to worry about skills that take 35 days to train because they allready have them. You know how ridiculous it is to train a skill that takes 35 days, and better yet on a active subscription! So yea, its easy and makes you look cool to call people "whiners" because they think the notion is ridiculous. Its the same thing you see every time someone doesnt agree with whats going on.. "Oh QQ, another whiner post" rather then actually attempt to see where a person is comming from.
Think about the concept for a moment. And try not to let your ignorence get in the way.
A person pays a months subscription "15$ or about 50 cents a day. As a beginner character, there isnt much to do... except skill train... So you log in, change a skill. (a few days go by, you still havent even played the game) skill completes, start another. rinse repeat. but whats next? subscription is running out.. So you have to spend another 15$ to continue your "skill training" because isnt that the only thing you are really doing?
So in other words, if a person is only logging on to change a skill.. Are they really getting their 15$ a month worth of the game??
So whatever, I dont even care. Remove ghost training, im done putting my words into this. Whats done is done, nothing is going to change it. And if it really is a "bug" which anyone with a 3rd grade intelligence knows it wasnt. Then its been fixed, but I'm pretty sure everyone knows whats really going on here.
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Mat Tassik
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Posted - 2008.10.18 12:16:00 -
[4441]
Well, I was very amused about the first try to explain why "ghost learning" - nice try to give this thing a negative smell - is needed. I can deal with the actual explanation: the company has to earn money in order to have the capacity to keep this great thing alive and improve it for the community. Go on, that's ok, its a great game. But this may become some kind of "shoot yourself in the foot". In my opinion, double, triple accounts lead to an additional income for CCP just because of the "ghost training" option. It's your choice.
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Sandy Minge
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Posted - 2008.10.18 12:58:00 -
[4442]
Originally by: Mat Tassik Well, I was very amused about the first try to explain why "ghost learning" - nice try to give this thing a negative smell - is needed. ...
Yeah, thought about this as well:
BOO! LOOK AT MOI, I AM SPOOKY, EBIL GHOST-SKILLER!
So CCP: If it's called Ghost-Skilling then why can other players still target and shoot me in my ghost skilled HAC's 5? Shouldn't my char have acquired transcendent abilities such as immunity and invisibility by ghost-skilling spaceship command skills?
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Istvaan Shogaatsu
Caldari Guiding Hand Social Club
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Posted - 2008.10.18 13:00:00 -
[4443]
Originally by: Janus Duo
Originally by: Istvaan Shogaatsu You're all kinda acting like a bunch of stupid jerkoffs.
I've used this newly termed "ghost training" extensively, and figured that since it was allowed, it was OK by CCP. I thought it was pretty much great, that they did this for players with limited schedules. But, turns out it was a bug, and I got about 20 million skillpoints from training while I was unsubscribed, which CCP never meant me to have. CCP could have reversed all prior ghost training to level the playing field, but they didn't. The rules just changed. Eve players are known for their ability to adapt - those who don't adapt die and quit. So... adapt.
Wow, and all this time I actually thought you were smart. You're actually EATING DCP's bull shit!
I'm not eating anything, sparky. I'm just disagreeing with you. It doesn't make me stupid.
CCP let us get free SP for five years. It was an awesome practice, but if you look at it from a business standpoint, it was a slice of potential profits CCP wasn't getting. They're a corporation, and they need to make money. Hell, Iceland just went bankrupt. Can you really blame them for a little extra nickel-and-diming?
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Tivookz
Caldari IMPERIAL SENATE Pure.
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Posted - 2008.10.18 13:18:00 -
[4444]
Edited by: Tivookz on 18/10/2008 13:27:55 Removing ghost training is basically the same as telling your customers that anything they do while playing is not valid when their subscription runs out because after all, ghost training is a result of an action made while the account was active.
Whats next? Removal of all sell orders when sub runs out? Because that's an action that lasts after sub runs out as well.
Perhaps removal of corp?
Removal of clones and contracts?
Silly, greedy, lousy, ex mmo masters called CCCP.
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Clansworth
Burning Sky Labs Libertas Fidelitas
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Posted - 2008.10.18 13:29:00 -
[4445]
Originally by: Aganola I know my post will drown in the topic nonetheless I feel compelled to say this:
Help me calculate a 1 year subscription for an alt:
1: pre GTC nerf: 8 x 1 month GTC + 8 x 14 days ghost training 8 x 15$ = 120$
2: post GTC nert (pre ghost nerf): 4 x 2 month GTC + 4 x 14 days ghost training 4 x 35$ = 140$
3: post ghost nerf: 6 x 2 month GTC 6 x 35$ = 210$
And this DOES NOT EVEN INCLUDE THE PAYMENT (+210$!!) FOR THE REAL CHARACTER!!!!
So basicly the cost of maintaining an alt doubled over the course of ONE year!
Lot of people cannot keep up with this (myself included)...
So this is the whine about... not just the screw over... :P
Thank you
You forgot to add one: Normal subscription, without ghost training 1 x 12-month subscription 1 x $131.40 = $131.40
sooo... still sounds affordable to me... and an aweful lot easier to have the account always active.
POS Personal Storage |
Tivookz
Caldari IMPERIAL SENATE Pure.
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Posted - 2008.10.18 13:34:00 -
[4446]
Originally by: Clansworth
Originally by: Aganola I know my post will drown in the topic nonetheless I feel compelled to say this:
Help me calculate a 1 year subscription for an alt:
1: pre GTC nerf: 8 x 1 month GTC + 8 x 14 days ghost training 8 x 15$ = 120$
2: post GTC nert (pre ghost nerf): 4 x 2 month GTC + 4 x 14 days ghost training 4 x 35$ = 140$
3: post ghost nerf: 6 x 2 month GTC 6 x 35$ = 210$
And this DOES NOT EVEN INCLUDE THE PAYMENT (+210$!!) FOR THE REAL CHARACTER!!!!
So basicly the cost of maintaining an alt doubled over the course of ONE year!
Lot of people cannot keep up with this (myself included)...
So this is the whine about... not just the screw over... :P
Thank you
You forgot to add one: Normal subscription, without ghost training 1 x 12-month subscription 1 x $131.40 = $131.40
sooo... still sounds affordable to me... and an aweful lot easier to have the account always active.
For US players perhaps.
However the majority of the eve players don't live in the US.
Tiv
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Velda Chulai
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Posted - 2008.10.18 14:28:00 -
[4447]
Edited by: Velda Chulai on 18/10/2008 14:29:00
Originally by: Clansworth
Originally by: Aganola I know my post will drown in the topic nonetheless I feel compelled to say this:
Help me calculate a 1 year subscription for an alt:
1: pre GTC nerf: 8 x 1 month GTC + 8 x 14 days ghost training 8 x 15$ = 120$
2: post GTC nert (pre ghost nerf): 4 x 2 month GTC + 4 x 14 days ghost training 4 x 35$ = 140$
3: post ghost nerf: 6 x 2 month GTC 6 x 35$ = 210$
And this DOES NOT EVEN INCLUDE THE PAYMENT (+210$!!) FOR THE REAL CHARACTER!!!!
So basicly the cost of maintaining an alt doubled over the course of ONE year!
Lot of people cannot keep up with this (myself included)...
So this is the whine about... not just the screw over... :P
Thank you
You forgot to add one: Normal subscription, without ghost training 1 x 12-month subscription 1 x $131.40 = $131.40
sooo... still sounds affordable to me... and an aweful lot easier to have the account always active.
From a player's perspective, they transfer isk from their main or from trusting friends to the alt and apply the time code from a forum sell order. From CCP's, it works out to a sold time code.
Realistically it's not likely that 6 time codes would sell to that account as long as there are month long skills being trained. The point still stands that timecodes which would not be otherwise sold are being used which would be a net gain for CCP.
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Sandy Minge
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Posted - 2008.10.18 14:29:00 -
[4448]
Originally by: Tivookz
For US players perhaps.
However the majority of the eve players don't live in the US.
Tiv
Ok here is my balance sheet:
Started playing in JAN 2006, 2nd Account MAR 2006, 3rd Account in NOV 2006, 4th Account in December 2006,
Paid with RL money, via regular Credit Card subscription to CCP
I lost interest, got busy with RL in August 2007 - however kept 4 account for the training because I expected to come back soonish. In September 2008 I stocked down to 2 accounts because of the introduction of 60d GTCs and the removal of 30d and 90d GTCs. Now i've started buying skilltime - I do not refer to it as playing time, because I don't play - with my accumulated ISKs. Once the ISKs and assets are drained I am prolly going to hand over my chars to some good friends.
but anyways here the balance: Months of skill time paid for: 30, 29, 18, 21 = 98 months. Months I played the game other than skilling: 20 Game time in months I paid for skilling exclusively: 41 Game time in months I am going to pay for for the sole purpose of skilling with RL funds: 0
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TheG2
Gallente Dirty Rotten Scoundrels
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Posted - 2008.10.18 15:09:00 -
[4449]
Posting in the still "bugged" thread.
CCP fails and isn't getting anymore of my money.
Lying to customers is a poor business practice.
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Janus Duo
Gallente Down In Flames
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Posted - 2008.10.18 15:11:00 -
[4450]
Originally by: Istvaan Shogaatsu
Originally by: Janus Duo
Originally by: Istvaan Shogaatsu You're all kinda acting like a bunch of stupid jerkoffs.
I've used this newly termed "ghost training" extensively, and figured that since it was allowed, it was OK by CCP. I thought it was pretty much great, that they did this for players with limited schedules. But, turns out it was a bug, and I got about 20 million skillpoints from training while I was unsubscribed, which CCP never meant me to have. CCP could have reversed all prior ghost training to level the playing field, but they didn't. The rules just changed. Eve players are known for their ability to adapt - those who don't adapt die and quit. So... adapt.
Wow, and all this time I actually thought you were smart. You're actually EATING DCP's bull shit!
I'm not eating anything, sparky. I'm just disagreeing with you. It doesn't make me stupid.
CCP let us get free SP for five years. It was an awesome practice, but if you look at it from a business standpoint, it was a slice of potential profits CCP wasn't getting. They're a corporation, and they need to make money. Hell, Iceland just went bankrupt. Can you really blame them for a little extra nickel-and-diming?
And yet you actually belive that this whole time this was a bug and that CCP really just happened to lose this particular thread?
And from a business standpoint CCP will be losing money from me. I'm not gonna have all 3 of my accounts active all year. I keep my main active all year, and turn on and off the other 2 as needed keeping a skill training at all times. I'm gonna collapse back to one account after this losing CCP $30-40/month (price fluxuates due to meathod of payment costing different amounts) and I imagine quite a few other doing the same. In fact I can see few people starting to pay for those accounts.
In the end removing features from your game makes LESS people want to buy it, not more.
This whole thing is just showing that CCP are: -Stupid -*******s -Dishonest -Anti-free speech
Now if you don't care about any of this that's cool. But if you actually believe the CCP line then THATs why I'd call your intelligence into question.
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Gorek Loc
Etherware Heavy Engineering
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Posted - 2008.10.18 15:21:00 -
[4451]
Originally by: Parasite S maybe cause the people who care are people who stick with eve and that for a long time and dont want to see their best mmorpg changing to the worst they ever had...
Eve is not family... This is a game that we pay for.
If we don't like how it changes, we can leave. However, most of us do like the game, so we speak up to changes we don't like.
My personal guess is that after the dust settles, CCCP has lost some of it's customers, and a bit of it's glow as a one-of-a-kind online game.
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Tivookz
Caldari IMPERIAL SENATE Pure.
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Posted - 2008.10.18 15:38:00 -
[4452]
Originally by: Gorek Loc
Originally by: Parasite S maybe cause the people who care are people who stick with eve and that for a long time and dont want to see their best mmorpg changing to the worst they ever had...
Eve is not family... This is a game that we pay for.
If we don't like how it changes, we can leave. However, most of us do like the game, so we speak up to changes we don't like.
My personal guess is that after the dust settles, CCCP has lost some of it's customers, and a bit of it's glow as a one-of-a-kind online game.
Unless they choose to do the right thing and revoke the change, only then do they show they are a one of a kind mmo maker who actually listens closely to what the community demands.
Tiv
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BIind
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Posted - 2008.10.18 15:42:00 -
[4453]
Thread is visible again, heh.
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Gunnanmon
Gallente UNITED STAR SYNDICATE R-I-P
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Posted - 2008.10.18 15:45:00 -
[4454]
Originally by: BIind Thread is visible again, heh.
Funny that.
The hidden ghost training eradication reply thread |
Tivookz
Caldari IMPERIAL SENATE Pure.
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Posted - 2008.10.18 15:48:00 -
[4455]
I wonder what Wrangler changed his mind about?
Linkage
Tiv
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Janus Duo
Gallente Down In Flames
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Posted - 2008.10.18 15:52:00 -
[4456]
He meant to post on his alt BIind and so he changed it. ;-)
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Fwuffy Wabbit
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Posted - 2008.10.18 15:54:00 -
[4457]
Originally by: Tivookz I wonder what Wrangler changed his mind about?
Linkage
Tiv
I do believe he was trying to make the thread visible again
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CCP Wrangler
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Posted - 2008.10.18 15:55:00 -
[4458]
Originally by: Fwuffy Wabbit
Originally by: Tivookz I wonder what Wrangler changed his mind about?
Linkage
Tiv
I do believe he was trying to make the thread visible again
Yup, but this time it worked.
Wrangler Community Manager CCP Hf, EVE Online Email
Reducing lag in EVE: The Jita Conundrum - StacklessIO or: How We Reduced Lag - Such Stuff As Dreams Are Made On - EVE64 - My node was equipped with the following... |
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Ji Sama
Caldari Department of Defence
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Posted - 2008.10.18 15:55:00 -
[4459]
Would you stop whining about this BUG fix. I have 1 account i train 1 toon, and i am ok with that. Most of my friends have 2 accounts and they dont complain about this. If you really want to do something meaningful in response to this change, stop spamming the forums and close your accounts.
BBTHXBB And lastly dont forget to check out the link in my signature..
"the majority of men has been dealt cards to a game they do not know how to play |
Sandy Minge
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Posted - 2008.10.18 15:55:00 -
[4460]
Originally by: Janus Duo He meant to post on his alt BIind and so he changed it. ;-)
tis! :p
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Ryan Scouse'UK
omen. Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2008.10.18 15:58:00 -
[4461]
EVE-Pricey Online !
Bye bye EVE!
no EVE related content in signature. ~Weatherman |
Gorek Loc
Etherware Heavy Engineering
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Posted - 2008.10.18 15:59:00 -
[4462]
Originally by: CCP Wrangler
Originally by: Fwuffy Wabbit
Originally by: Tivookz I wonder what Wrangler changed his mind about?
Linkage
Tiv
I do believe he was trying to make the thread visible again
Yup, but this time it worked.
Good job unhiding the thread... now are you going to do anything to try to keep your customers ?
Introduce some sort of discount for multiple account customers, and ghost training won't be an issue.
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Mashie Saldana
Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams
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Posted - 2008.10.18 16:02:00 -
[4463]
Originally by: Gorek Loc Introduce some sort of discount for multiple account customers, and ghost training won't be an issue.
Why? Should I get refunded for having 4 full subs for the past 2-3 years as well in that case?
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Flinchey
Amarr ANZAC ALLIANCE Southern Cross Alliance
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Posted - 2008.10.18 16:06:00 -
[4464]
Edited by: Flinchey on 18/10/2008 16:08:57
Originally by: Mashie Saldana
Originally by: Gorek Loc Introduce some sort of discount for multiple account customers, and ghost training won't be an issue.
Why? Should I get refunded for having 4 full subs for the past 2-3 years as well in that case?
and was that your choice? or.. not? hm?
you're *****ing about an idea that would get YOU a discount now?
damn, people in this thread are going rabid.
EDIT: also. you lucky people paying $15 a month. im incredibly jealous
it costs me $25 AUD per month under current *beep* exchange rates... where it should be under $20 per month (in fact close to $15). ugh.
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IR Scoutar
Caldari State War Academy
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Posted - 2008.10.18 16:19:00 -
[4465]
thx for putting the thread visible again wrangler dearest
but erm
Originally by: CCP Wrangler Posted - 2008.10.18 15:53:00 - [21] The way our forum works is that if you press the delete thread button you don't actually delete the thread, it just gets unlisted from the forum channel. If you have a direct link it's still accessible and unless the thread is also locked you could normally post in it to bump it back to the forum channel. As a consequence of this we don't actually use the delete thread function, in this case the button was pressed by accident (it is located right next to the delete post button). Unfortunately bumping back the thread didn't work this time, it is uncomfirmed right now but I believe it was due to the fact that the thread was a sticky. I got this bright idea that if I moved the thread to a different forum and then back again it might just jog the thread loose and push it back there, which seems to have worked as it is visible again.
does that mean you guys wanted to lock the thread about accidentialy "deleted" it instead ?
if so thats just as bad
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CCP Wrangler
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Posted - 2008.10.18 16:27:00 -
[4466]
Originally by: IR Scoutar thx for putting the thread visible again wrangler dearest
but erm
Originally by: CCP Wrangler Posted - 2008.10.18 15:53:00 - [21] The way our forum works is that if you press the delete thread button you don't actually delete the thread, it just gets unlisted from the forum channel. If you have a direct link it's still accessible and unless the thread is also locked you could normally post in it to bump it back to the forum channel. As a consequence of this we don't actually use the delete thread function, in this case the button was pressed by accident (it is located right next to the delete post button). Unfortunately bumping back the thread didn't work this time, it is uncomfirmed right now but I believe it was due to the fact that the thread was a sticky. I got this bright idea that if I moved the thread to a different forum and then back again it might just jog the thread loose and push it back there, which seems to have worked as it is visible again.
does that mean you guys wanted to lock the thread about accidentialy "deleted" it instead ?
if so thats just as bad
No, the delete thread and delete post button is located next to each other, not the lock thread button, that is somewhere else.
Wrangler Community Manager CCP Hf, EVE Online Email
Reducing lag in EVE: The Jita Conundrum - StacklessIO or: How We Reduced Lag - Such Stuff As Dreams Are Made On - EVE64 - My node was equipped with the following... |
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IR Scoutar
Caldari State War Academy
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Posted - 2008.10.18 16:30:00 -
[4467]
Edited by: IR Scoutar on 18/10/2008 16:30:58
Originally by: CCP Wrangler
Originally by: IR Scoutar thx for putting the thread visible again wrangler dearest
but erm
Originally by: CCP Wrangler Posted - 2008.10.18 15:53:00 - [21] The way our forum works is that if you press the delete thread button you don't actually delete the thread, it just gets unlisted from the forum channel. If you have a direct link it's still accessible and unless the thread is also locked you could normally post in it to bump it back to the forum channel. As a consequence of this we don't actually use the delete thread function, in this case the button was pressed by accident (it is located right next to the delete post button). Unfortunately bumping back the thread didn't work this time, it is uncomfirmed right now but I believe it was due to the fact that the thread was a sticky. I got this bright idea that if I moved the thread to a different forum and then back again it might just jog the thread loose and push it back there, which seems to have worked as it is visible again.
does that mean you guys wanted to lock the thread about accidentialy "deleted" it instead ?
if so thats just as bad
No, the delete thread and delete post button is located next to each other, not the lock thread button, that is somewhere else.
okokok ill let you off
edit : althou i have the possibility to complain infinatly more of course
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Vet Grivas
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Posted - 2008.10.18 16:39:00 -
[4468]
-2 accounts, this was a nice feature, but now i`m going to try Warhammer Online
more accounts + low general "time price" (gaining clients) = less accounts + high time price (loosing clients) extensive strategy, in a long period of time - loosers strategy
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Xavier Holtzman
Dark Star Cartel
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Posted - 2008.10.18 16:43:00 -
[4469]
Originally by: Vet Grivas -2 accounts, this was a nice feature, but now i`m going to try Warhammer Online
more accounts + low general "time price" (gaining clients) = less accounts + high time price (loosing clients) extensive strategy, in a long period of time - loosers strategy
lol
its funny that you say that, cuz i was just logging into my acct to say the same thing.
account cancelled. downloading warhammer online.
ccp fail. -=Xavier Holtzman=- "I'm in love with a malicious intent." |
Complete Tart
Gallente University of Caille
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Posted - 2008.10.18 16:59:00 -
[4470]
Originally by: Ryan Scouse'UK EVE-Pricey Online !
Bye bye EVE!
Haven't you threatened to quit like 5 times
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Unity Love
Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2008.10.18 17:00:00 -
[4471]
This is pretty annoying.
Surely you could have a lesser subscription for letting training continue.
For me, a student who goes to a boarding school most of the year where I can't physically go on EVE, having to pay for basically nothing is really quite ****ing off.
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IR Scoutar
Caldari State War Academy
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Posted - 2008.10.18 17:07:00 -
[4472]
what i dont get is all that talk of warhammer
i mean where be the spaceships! somebody find me a spaceships mmo that has every aspect eve has
untill then i shall not emoragequit however i just wont pay for my main and in all probability will let my alt run out
unless of course you know some higher ups grows some balls and appologises for questioning our inteligence (to put it lightly)
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Complete Tart
Gallente University of Caille
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Posted - 2008.10.18 17:07:00 -
[4473]
169264 views, 4443 replies
Biggest thread ever on the eve forums?
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Sandy Minge
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Posted - 2008.10.18 17:13:00 -
[4474]
Originally by: IR Scoutar what i dont get is all that talk of warhammer
i mean where be the spaceships! somebody find me a spaceships mmo that has every aspect eve has
untill then i shall not emoragequit however i just wont pay for my main and in all probability will let my alt run out
unless of course you know some higher ups grows some balls and appologises for questioning our inteligence (to put it lightly)
Ok how to simulate EVE-Online: Start up ICQ, enter a chatroom with 10-1000 people, hand out WARSHEEP-invitations to 5 different ppl at the same time and start to play against them while downloading 5 different **** movies for extra lag - oh and pay me $14,95 per month
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Chani Fedaykin
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Posted - 2008.10.18 17:14:00 -
[4475]
the recent 'declaration' of 'ghost training' as 'bug' is ridiculous because it was known for 5? years
ofc it was used by some ppl to 'breed' characters in order to sell them ... which could be seen as 'unfair advantage'
well ... IF this would be the reason why ghost training will be / was removed: ofc those that plan to sell characters will subscribe those accounts permanent now ... win situation for ccp. however prices for chars will go up ofc ... most likely the number of bought characters will go down ... prices will go down perhaps ... but all in all i guess that character 'breeding' will become less interesting and it will ofc become more expensive to buy a char (buy char == isk == gtc == $)
so IF the aim of ccp is to reduce the amount of characters created with the sole purpose to sell there would be another 'fix' that would still allow unpaid training for those customers that want an incentive to return after a break: add another field to each char to hold the amount of time spent using unpaid training. if you want to sell a char - you are required to a) pay the transfer fee b) pay the aequivalent price for your unpaid training time (ofc the according field is reset to 0 once the price is paid) alternative to b) you could choose to apply the aequivalent number of gtc's (which can be bought with isk) to make your char 'transferable'
just one opinion, but i dont think ghost training per se is unfair but a good marketing tool that makes eve attractive for many players. another thing is ghost trading, ghost research, ghost invention, ghost whatever ... which allows you to (in a small scale) make isk while having an unpaid account.
going further with that, even if some ppl will strongly oppose this idea, i would prefer that some 'activities' would require more active online time and could not be that easily delegated to specifically trained alts. best example is perhaps the use of research agents :P however this would require a lot of (well planned) major changes to major professions and 'activities' in eve - so its not very likely to happen (soon tm) |
Crazzy Russian
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Posted - 2008.10.18 17:17:00 -
[4476]
what about us new players, that just started playing?? what sort of balace is that? you kno playing conan online or world of warcraft is much cheeper about now.. i just started this game few moths 60 days ago and was lookin 4ward 2 comming back 2 it after a lvl 5 skill training but now its not even that woth it.. just when i was beggining 2 like the game u run it down 2 the ground more.. thanx alot
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Vet Grivas
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Posted - 2008.10.18 17:27:00 -
[4477]
Originally by: Crazzy Russian what about us new players, that just started playing?? what sort of balace is that? you kno playing conan online or world of warcraft is much cheeper about now.. i just started this game few moths 60 days ago and was lookin 4ward 2 comming back 2 it after a lvl 5 skill training but now its not even that woth it.. just when i was beggining 2 like the game u run it down 2 the ground more.. thanx alot
+1, now Eve is not worth even playing with that time-based char training...
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Janus Duo
Gallente Down In Flames
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Posted - 2008.10.18 17:38:00 -
[4478]
Originally by: Sandy Minge Ok how to simulate EVE-Online: Start up ICQ, enter a chatroom with 10-1000 people, hand out WARSHEEP-invitations to 5 different ppl at the same time and start to play against them while downloading 5 different **** movies for extra lag - oh and pay me $14,95 per month
Win!
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Cloudcobra
Caldari 0mega Enterprises 0mega Factor
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Posted - 2008.10.18 17:40:00 -
[4479]
Originally by: Complete Tart 169264 views, 4443 replies
Biggest thread ever on the eve forums?
Nah, still 600 to go for the "Dev Abuse Thread" way back in the old days(tm).
------------------------------- Who dares wins |
Janus Duo
Gallente Down In Flames
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Posted - 2008.10.18 17:41:00 -
[4480]
Originally by: Chani Fedaykin ofc those that plan to sell characters will subscribe those accounts permanent now ... win situation for ccp. however prices for chars will go up ofc
No, people just won't bother to grow characters to sell as few will be able to afford the new cost. CCP will lost MORE clients.
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IR Scoutar
Caldari State War Academy
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Posted - 2008.10.18 17:42:00 -
[4481]
Originally by: Sandy Minge
Originally by: IR Scoutar what i dont get is all that talk of warhammer
i mean where be the spaceships! somebody find me a spaceships mmo that has every aspect eve has
untill then i shall not emoragequit however i just wont pay for my main and in all probability will let my alt run out
unless of course you know some higher ups grows some balls and appologises for questioning our inteligence (to put it lightly)
Ok how to simulate EVE-Online: Start up ICQ, enter a chatroom with 10-1000 people, hand out WARSHEEP-invitations to 5 different ppl at the same time and start to play against them while downloading 5 different **** movies for extra lag - oh and pay me $14,95 per month
ahh but it still needs a nebula background that blinds you together with pretty ships yet ugly planets and moons n stuff oh and the ships need to shoot thru themselves before they hit their target only to display the message that you missed completly
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Ramblin Man
Empyreum
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Posted - 2008.10.18 17:42:00 -
[4482]
Hurray, the thread returns! + respect for making it so and stickifying it
Personally, I still think, Cold training > No cold training
If you look at it on a macro level... people cold train and sell their characters ('most disruptive' case). Result? Characters are much cheaper for people looking to buy them (primarily people who spend a lot of time playing [good] or people who are new to the game [also good, since they can buy ISK via GTCs]).
No cold training? Increased ISK-per-SP rate (consequence of increased SP-per-$ rate), meaning more expensive characters, meaning slower advancement for people who spend a lot of time playing and less of an opportunity for new players to 'catch up' via character buying).
Farmers? Really? It doesn't exactly take a ton of SPs to effectively drive a Raven. PvP desire for SP (specifically capital-stage) >> PvE desire for SP.
So all this really does is...
- Effectively "stretch" existing content (specifically end-game skills), or alternately charge more for existing content (as would cost more to reach it)
- Effectively "grandfather" in older players superiority over newer players (as they bought-the-skills more cheaply)
One of the things I liked about EVE was that it trended towards being more about *tactics* and *player skill* than "ingame skill." Unfortunately, by making ingame skill harder to come by you're pushing that balance back the wrong way.
have love, willing to give it industrially .CCPGinger |
Lord Fitz
Project Amargosa
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Posted - 2008.10.18 17:44:00 -
[4483]
Originally by: Chani Fedaykin the recent 'declaration' of 'ghost training' as 'bug' is ridiculous because it was known for 5? years
Knowing about it is the first thing that makes it not a bug, the second thing is that it was 'fixed' for the launch of the Chinese server years ago. Knowing how something works, and deliberately choosing to not change that when you have the means to do so easily available makes it a feature.
Unless CCP are trying to say that they actually fix bugs years before they let us have the fixes as standard practice.
Originally by: CCP t0rfifrans CCP is a greedy money chewing monster
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Chani Fedaykin
|
Posted - 2008.10.18 17:47:00 -
[4484]
Originally by: Janus Duo
Originally by: Chani Fedaykin well ... IF this would be the reason why ghost training will be / was removed: ofc those that plan to sell characters will subscribe those accounts permanent now ... win situation for ccp. however prices for chars will go up ofc ... most likely the number of bought characters will go down ... prices will go down perhaps ... but all in all i guess that character 'breeding' will become less interesting and it will ofc become more expensive to buy a char (buy char == isk == gtc == $)
No, people just won't bother to grow characters to sell as few will be able to afford the new cost. CCP will lost MORE clients.
if you reply, make sure to read and quote the whole (relevant) part, not only a snippet. seems like your answer doesnt really makes sense if you read the whole paragraph (which i quoted here again). obviously i never said, that char breeding will be as popular as it is now, nor that ccp will make more money or gain more customers. |
MenanceWhite
Amarr Red Light Navy
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Posted - 2008.10.18 17:48:00 -
[4485]
Edited by: MenanceWhite on 18/10/2008 17:48:49
Originally by: Cloudcobra
Originally by: Complete Tart 169264 views, 4443 replies
Biggest thread ever on the eve forums?
Nah, still 600 to go for the "Dev Abuse Thread" way back in the old days(tm).
Not really, considering the fact that there's also this- and this thread which adds another 1500 posts. ---
Originally by: Torfi There's alot. That can be done. With.. corpses
Originally by: Oveur
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Sandy Minge
|
Posted - 2008.10.18 17:49:00 -
[4486]
Originally by: IR Scoutar
ahh but it still needs a nebula background that blinds you together with pretty ships yet ugly planets and moons n stuff oh and the ships need to shoot thru themselves before they hit their target only to display the message that you missed completly
Dood thats yer desktop background meant for: Search a piccy of sum spaceship in nebular and make all ICQ-windows transparent and overlapping! :P
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Amarr Hyena
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Posted - 2008.10.18 17:53:00 -
[4487]
Well look at that, they uncloaked the Threadnaught. ------- ghost training Threadnaught V. Skills continue training even if you are logged off or if your account is inactive. |
Janus Duo
Gallente Down In Flames
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Posted - 2008.10.18 17:58:00 -
[4488]
And wrangler altposted it immediately and was caught. Take that all you people that claim that CCP doesn't screw with discussion threads with their alts.
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MMXMMX
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Posted - 2008.10.18 18:01:00 -
[4489]
I dont see any problems
Account Expires: 8-1-2011 15:09:29
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Lord Fitz
Project Amargosa
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Posted - 2008.10.18 18:02:00 -
[4490]
Originally by: Istvaan Shogaatsu CCP let us get free SP for five years. It was an awesome practice, but if you look at it from a business standpoint, it was a slice of potential profits CCP wasn't getting. They're a corporation, and they need to make money. Hell, Iceland just went bankrupt. Can you really blame them for a little extra nickel-and-diming?
It's flawed to believe that anything gained without payment would translate into payment if you HAD to pay for that gain. More likely it would translate to a lack of that gain instead, and in this case the lack of payment as well. Just like places give out free stuff to their customers, they're not losing the money from the free stuff, they're gaining a customer that they wouldn't otherwise have thanks to the sweetener. This was in no way ever 'free' it was simply at a reduced cost if you didn't login which made the servicing cost for CCP 0. If I could give free stuff to my clients that cost me 0 I certainly would, as it is it costs me time to do so, but pays me back 100x over in what they buy not for free.
If CCP were up front about their reasoning, and not just making up lies to taint it, and I actually thought it would make them money in the long run, I'd be all for it. It's actually going to be better for 'me' long run as it stands, but I don't think it will be better for them, or the game.
Originally by: Face deBouc Cool i'have post in a 147 pages thread
Now, please CCP shoot the ghost market orders, ghost R&D and any other ghost.
Ghost RP affects game balance a little, as more RP for those people means less value per RP, which actually, out of all things listed here DOES affect other people. Factory/lab jobs / market orders don't really, the penalty for factory/lab jobs being cancelled is actually not just the absence of progress but the destruction of materials, they can also be placed 'for corp' so materials belonging to paying subscribers can be destroyed in that case if someone else doesn't pay their sub on time. Trading can really only be done effectively with an active account, it doesn't take much to make someone with an inactive account lose money, you can undercut them, or sell a heap of stuff to them that becomes cheaper for some reason since they stopped playing. Leaving the game with buy orders is a fairly sure way to come back to the game with a pile of crap you paid way too much for.
Stopping RP gain for inactive accounts. Yeah, sure. About the only thing that SHOULD have been changed, but that would require effort, to make the skill change simply required them to get the code they wrote YEARS ago for the Chinese server.
Originally by: CCP t0rfifrans CCP is a greedy money chewing monster
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Janus Duo
Gallente Down In Flames
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Posted - 2008.10.18 18:07:00 -
[4491]
Originally by: MMXMMX I dont see any problems
Account Expires: 8-1-2011 15:09:29
How do you post on the forums anymore after your embarrassing opening thread being the first person to publicly admit being loftied?
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Fwuffy Wabbit
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Posted - 2008.10.18 18:24:00 -
[4492]
Scenario 1:
Player sets long skill training, and lets account expire due to boredom or RL issues. Character gains fresh new skill. Player is eager to try out fresh new skill but can't until they pay for more account time.
Scenario 2:
Player sets long skill training, and lets account expire due to boredom or RL issues. Character training is halted. Player has no incentive to pay for more account time.
Scenario 3:
Player sets long skill training, and keeps account paid up due to not having RL issues. Character training carries on as normal and player has fun running missions, taking down enemy POSs and other interesting activites like mining veldspar.
Most people are on #3, occasionally moving to #1 and then back to #3, above.
Now, people will end up at scenario 2, and CCP will no longer get their subscription money, unless they pull something wildly amazing and innovative out of the bag.
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BIind
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Posted - 2008.10.18 18:35:00 -
[4493]
Originally by: Janus Duo And wrangler altposted it immediately and was caught. Take that all you people that claim that CCP doesn't screw with discussion threads with their alts.
I'm not Wrangler's alt if that's what you're getting at, I just happened to notice it before he managed to post here.
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Unforgivin
Caldari TEAM GAY
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Posted - 2008.10.18 18:47:00 -
[4494]
One of the best selling points of eve and you guys are disabling it?
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Fyrr Deerdan
Caldari Envoy Corps
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Posted - 2008.10.18 19:02:00 -
[4495]
Hmm you pay, you get. That's some sort of basic principle where I live.
Good decision CCP. I always thought it was a weird feature. IMO it should never have been this way.
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NereSky
Gallente Trinity Nova Trinity Nova Alliance
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Posted - 2008.10.18 19:02:00 -
[4496]
Originally by: NereSky
Originally by: Delos Korelian
Originally by: Jinx Barker
... ever since the "old" guard of the developers left active EVE online roles CCP customer service, CCP customer attunes, and general CCP attitude toward its player base has gone to shit.
Aint that the truth
Qft
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Fyrr Deerdan
Caldari Envoy Corps
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Posted - 2008.10.18 19:07:00 -
[4497]
Originally by: Fwuffy Wabbit Scenario 1:
Player sets long skill training, and lets account expire due to boredom or RL issues. Character gains fresh new skill. Player is eager to try out fresh new skill but can't until they pay for more account time.
Scenario 2:
Player sets long skill training, and lets account expire due to boredom or RL issues. Character training is halted. Player has no incentive to pay for more account time.
Scenario 3:
Player sets long skill training, and keeps account paid up due to not having RL issues. Character training carries on as normal and player has fun running missions, taking down enemy POSs and other interesting activites like mining veldspar.
Most people are on #3, occasionally moving to #1 and then back to #3, above.
Now, people will end up at scenario 2, and CCP will no longer get their subscription money, unless they pull something wildly amazing and innovative out of the bag.
That's quite a bit more complicated then that, really, but thanks for breaking it down.
CCP hasn't built a successful business, one of the most solid MMOs out there, in last 5 yrs+ without thinking through decisions like these. They have a lot more data to take a decision about this than you do and when they took that decision, what they hit is the fringe player who don't really play the game, not the core player who logs in every week.
I know about ten people in real-life who've played or are still playing EVE at this point. Not one of them ended up on scenario 1. They were either playing or not playing and when they came back it wasn't because they had trained a skill from 4 to 5, but to play with friends.
Once again, I think its a good decision by CCP.
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Fyrr Deerdan
Caldari Envoy Corps
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Posted - 2008.10.18 19:08:00 -
[4498]
Originally by: NereSky
Originally by: NereSky
Originally by: Delos Korelian
Originally by: Jinx Barker
... ever since the "old" guard of the developers left active EVE online roles CCP customer service, CCP customer attunes, and general CCP attitude toward its player base has gone to shit.
Aint that the truth
Qft
Too bad that the original sentence was so badly constructed, it might have meant something =P
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rofflesausage
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Posted - 2008.10.18 19:15:00 -
[4499]
They should have banned the plethora of Macrominers before they even thought about touching this. The number of macrominers I've seen reported and nothing done about is shocking
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ShadowDraqon
Awesome Industries Group
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Posted - 2008.10.18 19:18:00 -
[4500]
Edited by: ShadowDraqon on 18/10/2008 19:18:25 CCP was losing money. This was bad since money is important. It pays stuff like computers, wages for employees, and hardware upgrades. Look at it this way: you are sacrificing your ghost training to have a better game with less lag. Stop whining. Stop with the iQuit threats. Move on.
also haha 150th page ______________________ I got killed for my kindness no, rly |
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Sandy Minge
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Posted - 2008.10.18 19:39:00 -
[4501]
Originally by: rofflesausage They should have banned the plethora of Macrominers before they even thought about touching this. The number of macrominers I've seen reported and nothing done about is shocking
Well perhaps CCP doesn't do anything against the ISK-Farmers because they pay their account subscriptions on regular basis - Unlike the ebil Ghost-Skillers!
Who knows, when everything is about the money, then perhaps the ISK-Farmers even got a decent deal with CCP! :)
For the very least the ISK farmers annoy the community and distract from the real issues which would then be addressed to CCP
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Tivookz
Caldari IMPERIAL SENATE Pure.
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Posted - 2008.10.18 19:44:00 -
[4502]
Originally by: ShadowDraqon Edited by: ShadowDraqon on 18/10/2008 19:18:25 CCP was losing money. This was bad since money is important. It pays stuff like computers, wages for employees, and hardware upgrades. Look at it this way: you are sacrificing your ghost training to have a better game with less lag. Stop whining. Stop with the iQuit threats. Move on.
also haha 150th page
Really?
So let me get this straight, based on your logic, ccp are going to earn more money because people are leaving? 1+1 = 3?
I subscribed 2 days ago, only to find out they nerfed ghost training.
First thing I did was I logged off, cancelled my sub and entered warhammer.
It's the only thing we can do to stop this wave of greedy devs.
A matter of fact, CCP are richer than ever because the Icelandic krona fell like 30% in a single day which means the euro they had increased in value by 30% so I dont understand the greed.
Tiv
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ShadowDraqon
Awesome Industries Group
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Posted - 2008.10.18 20:04:00 -
[4503]
Originally by: Tivookz
Originally by: ShadowDraqon Edited by: ShadowDraqon on 18/10/2008 19:18:25 CCP was losing money. This was bad since money is important. It pays stuff like computers, wages for employees, and hardware upgrades. Look at it this way: you are sacrificing your ghost training to have a better game with less lag. Stop whining. Stop with the iQuit threats. Move on.
also haha 150th page
Really?
So let me get this straight, based on your logic, ccp are going to earn more money because people are leaving? 1+1 = 3?
I subscribed 2 days ago, only to find out they nerfed ghost training.
First thing I did was I logged off, cancelled my sub and entered warhammer.
It's the only thing we can do to stop this wave of greedy devs.
A matter of fact, CCP are richer than ever because the Icelandic krona fell like 30% in a single day which means the euro they had increased in value by 30% so I dont understand the greed.
Tiv
1) i think your logic fails. Who said anything about leaving? Your answer makes no sense.
2) Don't talk about icelandic economy, I live there. Stop rubbing it in ______________________ I got killed for my kindness no, rly |
Tobin Shalim
Vulcan Foundry A.X.I.S
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Posted - 2008.10.18 20:10:00 -
[4504]
Originally by: Zanquis they are basically trying to hide this thread and hope it goes away, kinda like they quickly shoved this change out the door with a half baked poorly thought out announcement which offended our intelligence.
I believe I read somewhere that ccp is not going to reverse this decision and they fully expect the backlash to subside and be forgotten, then business as usual.
aren't they still getting backlash and bad PR over the whole t20 incident? if that's really their plan, they need to reevaluate it, because from what i've seen, the Eve playerbase doesn't forget things like this. |
NereSky
Gallente Trinity Nova Trinity Nova Alliance
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Posted - 2008.10.18 20:19:00 -
[4505]
Originally by: Tobin Shalim
Originally by: Zanquis they are basically trying to hide this thread and hope it goes away, kinda like they quickly shoved this change out the door with a half baked poorly thought out announcement which offended our intelligence.
I believe I read somewhere that ccp is not going to reverse this decision and they fully expect the backlash to subside and be forgotten, then business as usual.
aren't they still getting backlash and bad PR over the whole t20 incident? if that's really their plan, they need to reevaluate it, because from what i've seen, the Eve playerbase doesn't forget things like this.
They dont care m8 T20 still works for them - they have created a 'inetrnal affairs' dept where they dont divulge complaints nor do they even tell you a complaint is even looked at, its all lip service tbh
This issue will be washed away but not forgotten, wouldnt suprise me if they are running bets as to how long this thread go's on for
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Hansen Ranvleir
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Posted - 2008.10.18 20:27:00 -
[4506]
It's pretty funny reading all of the complaints. OH NO, I HAVE TO PLAY MY ACCOUNT! OH NO! I can't just set a character aside for months to skip large chunks of the game. Sure, long skills are long, but what makes you think that you have any right to get CCP's services on an inactive account?
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Velda Chulai
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Posted - 2008.10.18 20:31:00 -
[4507]
Edited by: Velda Chulai on 18/10/2008 20:32:25
Originally by: ShadowDraqon
Originally by: Tivookz
Originally by: ShadowDraqon Edited by: ShadowDraqon on 18/10/2008 19:18:25 CCP was losing money. This was bad since money is important. It pays stuff like computers, wages for employees, and hardware upgrades. Look at it this way: you are sacrificing your ghost training to have a better game with less lag. Stop whining. Stop with the iQuit threats. Move on.
also haha 150th page
Really?
So let me get this straight, based on your logic, ccp are going to earn more money because people are leaving? 1+1 = 3?
I subscribed 2 days ago, only to find out they nerfed ghost training.
First thing I did was I logged off, cancelled my sub and entered warhammer.
It's the only thing we can do to stop this wave of greedy devs.
A matter of fact, CCP are richer than ever because the Icelandic krona fell like 30% in a single day which means the euro they had increased in value by 30% so I dont understand the greed.
Tiv
1) i think your logic fails. Who said anything about leaving? Your answer makes no sense.
2) Don't talk about icelandic economy, I live there. Stop rubbing it in
Many of us speculate since it's nearly everything CCP has stated has been simply unbelievable. The economic effects are just one thing that we speculate about.
Looks like CCP managed to nerf Ghost Posting :)
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Parasite S
Death Monkey's With Knives
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Posted - 2008.10.18 20:56:00 -
[4508]
Originally by: ShadowDraqon Edited by: ShadowDraqon on 18/10/2008 19:18:25 It pays stuff like computers, wages for employees, and hardware upgrades.
also haha 150th page
ccp employee: well of course we could.... but i ever wanted to have this fancy aquarium
next one: yeah and of course we could..... --------------- DON'T troll me |
Detritus Thermopyle
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.10.18 21:00:00 -
[4509]
If schadenfreude is a sin, then I know where my final destination lies.
(But I am SO enjoying some of the waypoints on the way there!)
A lie can travel halfway around the universe while the truth is un-docking. ~ Mark Twain (paraphrased) |
Rektide
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Posted - 2008.10.18 21:16:00 -
[4510]
"Does that mean that CCP is a greedy money chewing monster that just loves nerfing things?"
YES IT DOES
The cap train is hundreds of dollars even with unsub training. Combined with your doubly effective screw over of the GTC market (firstly raising the $/day rate massively and secondly reducing market choice competition thereby increasing GTC isk cost thereby reducing affordability of GTC) its pretty clear what your intents are. You jackals just jacked your rates into the stratosphere. You're systematically doing your best to scrooge the most money possible from the veteran players who love this game, and your backhanded denial that this is anything but a greedy and unnecessary attempt at increasing revenue only ads further insult to you inreasingly malicious pricing policies.
Your damnable excuse that, "in a way that we were essentially supporting and maintaining a large number of customers that weren't paying us regular subscriptions" rings false in so many ways it is revolting: you should be able to run the skill training for 100,000 inactive characters on a 486, and you shouldnt have to dedicate one man hour to maintaining that. The cost is nil, zero, zilch. The only thing at stake here is opportunity cost: your greed has lead you to decide that there is more to gain by not giving the most dedicated players something for free. You've seen more people doing inactive skill training as more players add more accounts, and you've seen dollar signs in your eyes. It is exploitation, pure and simple.
I write about eve a lot. Search for me online. For the most part I love eve; its the only mmpog with persistence that matters. You ignore your players in this forums which I can understand (over 150 pages of complaints and growing), but thinking you can leverage these bastardly changes and not suffer any consequence at all is a hubris I will not let you live down. Your potential customers will be hearing a very different tone from me online as I continue write about this game I love. This change is not acceptable, and CCP has shown an ever increasing greed and drive towards increased monitization at the cost of the people who love this game the most, and based on the recent trends its clear CCP will always do everything in its powers to leverage the most money possible from its players, no matter how it affects them, on the basis that they will be forced to go along with the changes.
The line is drawn here. This change is not acceptable, it penalizes the people who love your game the most in unacceptable ways. I will do everything in my powers to make the world know the level of CCPs greed and how it injures this game I love. Revert it immediately and humbly ask your players forgivnence.
This post has been screenshotted.
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Rektide
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Posted - 2008.10.18 21:27:00 -
[4511]
Also it is massively unjust that there are thousands of players who have developed armies of Cap-Ship alts using this avenue, and that anyone who joins your game now will not have that option. You are giving the early players a massive and unfair advantage versus any one who is playing now.
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ShadowDraqon
Awesome Industries Group
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Posted - 2008.10.18 22:11:00 -
[4512]
No, you are just cheap and liked it when you could play technically for free half the time. ______________________ I got killed for my kindness no, rly |
Janus Duo
Gallente Down In Flames
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Posted - 2008.10.18 22:21:00 -
[4513]
Originally by: ShadowDraqon No, you are just cheap and liked it when you could play technically for free half the time.
What, do you never do anything ingame but train skills?
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Rektide
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Posted - 2008.10.18 22:21:00 -
[4514]
Cheap? I've played casually for three years. My main has 32m SP.
Recently I've decided to invest more in EVE, in large part to achieve parity with the people who've been playing for six years and have a host of accounts. I aimed to go from zero to three capship capable pilots.
No one used inactive skill trains cause they were cheap. They used them because they were dedicated end game players and it was the only sane way to do capital ship training where theres many many 30 day skill trains required. Even with unsub accounts a cap ship pilot costs many hundreds of dollars.
As stated, this change unfairly entrenches the players who were able to at a reasonable cost build Capital Ship pilots, by making the cost of entry for capital ship warfare astronomical. Its not people who were cheap that used this, its people with multiple accounts who used this because they loved Eve but couldnt afford the rediculous costs now required for medium & late game play. Given the inordinately long skill trains required, I dont see why up and coming dedicated players should be penalized so unfairly versus the thousands of players who've already taken this logical and fair route.
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SZ Rota
Caldari Eve University Ivy League
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Posted - 2008.10.18 22:37:00 -
[4515]
Edited by: SZ Rota on 18/10/2008 22:38:14
No ShadowDragon, these customers arenÆt cheap, they were, and ARE, already paying far MORE in Eve for LESS content and flexibility.
Other mmos allow for development of more than one fully functional character on an account at a time. Most players on most mmos develop more than one character at a time, but they do NOT pay for multiple subscriptions because itÆs just not necessary in other games.
Ghost training helped a little with character advancement, liked rested xp in other games, but not anymore.
Other mmos have more character slots and have rested xp. ONLY in Eve do you have this strange culture of denial where players love the game so much that they fool themselves into believing itÆs normal and acceptable to be bled of money for multiple accounts just to achieve a baseline of whatÆs standard in other games for ONE subscription, not two or three or four.
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Hilfreich
Minmatar Omega Fleet Enterprises Executive Outcomes
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Posted - 2008.10.18 22:50:00 -
[4516]
it all boils down to one question: Do CCP know their Customers, or not?
If they do, then they will live. If they dont, then they just did a SoE. Were I a stakeholder in that company, I'd worry about them just removing a key selling point without necessity, and against public opinion.
This thread has grown faster than the speed issue one, despite beeing ghosted for a week. I wonder why...
Originally by: CCP Oveur
If you don't like it there, there are about 5000 other solar systems which you can go for.
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Orwell Lok'errt
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Posted - 2008.10.18 22:53:00 -
[4517]
Edited by: Orwell Lok''errt on 18/10/2008 22:53:04
Originally by: SZ Rota Edited by: SZ Rota on 18/10/2008 22:38:14
Other mmos have more character slots and have rested xp. ONLY in Eve do you have this strange culture of denial where players love the game so much that they fool themselves into believing it’s normal and acceptable to be bled of money for multiple accounts just to achieve a baseline of what’s standard in other games for ONE subscription, not two or three or four.
i'm sure it is just a bug and all those mmos will fix it as soon as they find out about it.
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Gunnanmon
Gallente UNITED STAR SYNDICATE R-I-P
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Posted - 2008.10.18 22:57:00 -
[4518]
Originally by: Rektide Also it is massively unjust that there are thousands of players who have developed armies of Cap-Ship alts using this avenue, and that anyone who joins your game now will not have that option. You are giving the early players a massive and unfair advantage versus any one who is playing now.
But why should new people be allowed the same priveleges the older chars had? Shame on them for taking ages to join the game. I guess.
The hidden ghost training eradication reply thread |
Fyrr Deerdan
Caldari Envoy Corps
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Posted - 2008.10.18 22:58:00 -
[4519]
Originally by: rofflesausage They should have banned the plethora of Macrominers before they even thought about touching this. The number of macrominers I've seen reported and nothing done about is shocking
If they failed to fix something, does it mean they have to stop trying fixing the rest ? That's a dangerous way of looking globally at a system that you're trying to improve.
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Gunnanmon
Gallente UNITED STAR SYNDICATE R-I-P
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Posted - 2008.10.18 23:11:00 -
[4520]
Originally by: Ramblin Man Hurray, the thread returns! + respect for making it so and stickifying it
Personally, I still think, Cold training > No cold training
If you look at it on a macro level... people cold train and sell their characters ('most disruptive' case). Result? Characters are much cheaper for people looking to buy them (primarily people who spend a lot of time playing [good] or people who are new to the game [also good, since they can buy ISK via GTCs]).
No cold training? Increased ISK-per-SP rate (consequence of increased SP-per-$ rate), meaning more expensive characters, meaning slower advancement for people who spend a lot of time playing and less of an opportunity for new players to 'catch up' via character buying).
Farmers? Really? It doesn't exactly take a ton of SPs to effectively drive a Raven. PvP desire for SP (specifically capital-stage) >> PvE desire for SP.
So all this really does is...
- Effectively "stretch" existing content (specifically end-game skills), or alternately charge more for existing content (as would cost more to reach it)
- Effectively "grandfather" in older players superiority over newer players (as they bought-the-skills more cheaply)
One of the things I liked about EVE was that it trended towards being more about *tactics* and *player skill* than "ingame skill." Unfortunately, by making ingame skill harder to come by you're pushing that balance back the wrong way.
No further comments required. Well said.
The hidden ghost training eradication reply thread |
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Christine Cormorante
Gallente Warped Mining
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Posted - 2008.10.18 23:17:00 -
[4521]
Originally by: Fyrr Deerdan
Originally by: rofflesausage They should have banned the plethora of Macrominers before they even thought about touching this. The number of macrominers I've seen reported and nothing done about is shocking
If they failed to fix something, does it mean they have to stop trying fixing the rest ? That's a dangerous way of looking globally at a system that you're trying to improve.
Strange concept I know, but its customary to fix things that are actually broken. Like windows snapping across the screen from where you locked them last time you logged in. Or warping to 0 to a gate in lowsec, landing at 2750, and hoping to Christ that you coast in the last few meters to jump before that pirate gatecamp turns you into shitstain on the stargate. Did I mention that lag during fleet battles is still a huge problem? Even after Useles....err, Stackless IO?
Fix what NEEDS to be fixed FIRST. THEN players might be a bit more receptive to changes like this.
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Gunnanmon
Gallente UNITED STAR SYNDICATE R-I-P
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Posted - 2008.10.18 23:22:00 -
[4522]
Originally by: Hong Lihua PLEAZE CAN I HAVE YOUR STUFF OR ALL YOUR ISK?!!!!
This line wasn't funny the first 7 centillion times it was written, either. :/
The hidden ghost training eradication reply thread |
Squirrrel
Gallente Squirrrel Industries
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Posted - 2008.10.18 23:35:00 -
[4523]
Originally by: Gunnanmon
Originally by: Hong Lihua PLEAZE CAN I HAVE YOUR STUFF OR ALL YOUR ISK?!!!!
This line wasn't funny the first 7 centillion times it was written, either. :/
Plus it's kinda ironic that some of those who are in favour and high-horsing it over those voicing concerns regarding the change; seem to want free stuff...
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Bitchslap
Body of Crime CORPVS DELICTI
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Posted - 2008.10.19 00:52:00 -
[4524]
Originally by: ShadowDraqon Edited by: ShadowDraqon on 18/10/2008 19:18:25 CCP was losing money. This was bad since money is important. It pays stuff like computers, wages for employees, and hardware upgrades. Look at it this way: you are sacrificing your ghost training to have a better game with less lag. Stop whining. Stop with the iQuit threats. Move on.
also haha 150th page
Okey, let¦s elaborate abit on that shall we,
First of all (i dont really care or do i?) just wanted to trow out some toughts
2nd, No one can say they havent used it, when ur account runs out and till you get it activated due to you forgot to renew it or your visa card was renewed and sub. wasint renewed since old visa numbers didnt work or whatever reason we have al used it 1 sec+ or more
3rd, why take it away now after 5 years++++?, means its unfair to newer players v.s older that could use it
4a, How can you say CCP was losing $ on it, do you have any facts to back that up?
4b, Lets say a average established player have say 3 acconts, now the question is why do they have about 3 accounts, reason is mainly becouse EvE have evolved alot since beta, and insted of having to train 300+++ skils on 1 main they prefer to train up a second and prolly a 3rd or more accounts for say freighter pilot, cyno alt/s, stationed traders, rd collectors, spys, cap pilots, etc etc etc......
What will happen now, Some will prolly continue as if it was raining: no change
some might move main 2,3 etc to main 1 account : CCP loses income
some maybe sell account 2,3 etc keeps main: no change
some will quit the game becouse of frustation etc etc etc list is to long : CCP lose income
Few will trash all they have including character/account: CCP lose income
4c, Lets say you have a guy/girl that gets 5 accounts and character grinds, and after say 6 Months, 1,2 years etc. sells them, what happence then well he/she will prolly make some isk out of them but not as mutch as if he would be grinding them ingame: end result = market have more options to either start EvE from scratch or buy a skilled character = CCP gets more income regardless
5, The so called ghost training never was, will never be a "bug" or a "wormhole" and/or anyone with some IT background knows its not a "DBM=Data Base Monster" as i see it the offline skill training was a genious move by CCP in the first place
6, So here is my question to CCP or Wrangler directly, what is the main reason you took it away
And im not asking about the "2 day notice" or the user guide "we didnt know"/"send in the ninjas" thing or "smokscreen thread"................................ just give the gamer comunity a official good "non coverup" reason for taking it away. thats all we /they ask.
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Also on a side note since i see your reading this Wrangler, can you please address this matter asap with a ETA with say 5 months give or take
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ninjaholic
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.10.19 01:44:00 -
[4525]
STFU you spoiled b**tards. CCP should've never allowed you all to ghost train in the first place, and you're screwing them out of money. At a time when money is pretty damn important and pays for the hardware upgrades so you li'l b**tards stop complaining about lag.
Get over it. Pay for your f-king time like a normal customer. You've been spoiled for FIVE YEARS so far, and clearly they feel you milked the system.
Again I say STFU and pay for your subscriptions. If this were the WoW forums (not that I ever play that trash) you'd probably be time-banned from the forums and every discussion thread about it locked.
SUPPORT EVE-O's OWN IN-GAME FIGHT RECORD TOOL !! |
Staberind
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Posted - 2008.10.19 02:01:00 -
[4526]
Originally by: ninjaholic STFU you spoiled b**tards. CCP should've never allowed you all to ghost train in the first place, and you're screwing them out of money. At a time when money is pretty damn important and pays for the hardware upgrades so you li'l b**tards stop complaining about lag.
Get over it. Pay for your f-king time like a normal customer. You've been spoiled for FIVE YEARS so far, and clearly they feel you milked the system.
Again I say STFU and pay for your subscriptions. If this were the WoW forums (not that I ever play that trash) you'd probably be time-banned from the forums and every discussion thread about it locked.
no, as a matter of fact, i have not actually had the chance to really train while my account is down, maybe a few days here and there, when r/l has taken over a few times, but, i re sub, despite having a couple of months of training missed, why? because i like the game, damn, we all like the game, and its community, thats probably why i'm posting here, as far as being "spoiled for five years" is concerned, i dont agree or disagree, i do however note that, because its been available for five years, many characters older than my two accounts will have been able to use this feature to their advantage, an advantage they keep, despite the fact that new chars start with more sp than they did. so, will they block the selling of ghost trained accounts? and other "advantages" gained through this ? what other measure's will they try to make the game "fairer" ? i dread to think.
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Rektide
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Posted - 2008.10.19 02:07:00 -
[4527]
Originally by: ninjaholic STFU you spoiled b**tards. CCP should've never allowed you all to ghost train in the first place, and you're screwing them out of money. At a time when money is pretty damn important and pays for the hardware upgrades so you li'l b**tards stop complaining about lag.
Get over it. Pay for your f-king time like a normal customer. You've been spoiled for FIVE YEARS so far, and clearly they feel you milked the system.
Again I say STFU and pay for your subscriptions. If this were the WoW forums (not that I ever play that trash) you'd probably be time-banned from the forums and every discussion thread about it locked.
Unsub training has been a de-facto and official part of this game for 5 years now. I dont understand why you're expressing outrage, why you feel so hurt about something anyone could have taken advantage of if they wanted. I dont understand why you feel injured by this practice, and why you think it shouldnt be permitted? Why have you never brought your apparent out rage to bear against this "injustice" before?
You should be outraged they're taking away the means of training the dastardly long skills and you should be using unsub training after we get this feature back in to the game where it belongs. I dont see why you would deny new players who just began using this-- such as myself-- the advantages that longer term players have enjoyed for years.
Your bias is clear and direct, CCP should've never allowed you all to ghost train in the first place, and you're screwing them out of money. This just isnt so. Skill points cost CCP nothing to hand out. There was an opportunity cost CCP did not leverage that allowed players to get towards the end game without spending nearly three quarters of a thousand dollars, and many times CCP made quite a bit of money off these players because unsub training permitted them to rotate through a cast of characters. That you feel personally injured because players weened themselves toward the end game for mere hundreds of dollars instead is delusional and paranoid. If you were in the shoes of someone trying to keep up with joneses and fight 0.0 versus BoB'ites who've been using this en masse for years, maybe you'd feel a little differently.
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Rektide
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Posted - 2008.10.19 02:15:00 -
[4528]
Originally by: Staberind so, will they block the selling of ghost trained accounts? and other "advantages" gained through this ? what other measure's will they try to make the game "fairer" ? i dread to think.
This has nothing to do with "fairness".
CCP will certainly not try and rectify the past actions of what they have only just begun claiming is a "bug". This has been an official part of the game since its inception and they'd have no right to retroactively penalize people who've used a legitimate aspect. The only people this affects are new people trying to join the game old players have played for years. This feature did not descriminate against players; it was available to anyone, there was no injutice. The only thing at stake here is CCP thinking they can make more money.
Given the plans of my corp mates, I suspect this will backfire badly. Most players I know are shedding and consolidating accounts. Given that they used to have many more accounts, subbed 50-80% of the time, I think CCP is going to be highly disappointed and massively off target from the number of active accounts they've deluded themselves into thinking they'll have.
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Ryuu Katsu
Lone Star Joint Venture Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2008.10.19 02:29:00 -
[4529]
To be honest I don't care what your reasons are for this change, it is a bad one. You need to get your head out of the clouds and get real about how people are going to react to your recent business decisions. Good business is not always the bottom line with your current customer base, in contrary to what many on these forums will bible-thump forth and back, for if you don't also consider you customers willingness to pay and their spirit towards your company you may end up losing more than you had hoped to gain in the form of losses to your long-term customer base. Be it in main accounts or alteriour ones.
Your quote of:
"Now a single customer that doesn't log into the servers may not weigh heavily on our database infrastructure, just as a single snowflake isn't that heavy, hardly a measurable quantity. But it's hard not to notice an avalanche if it hits you. And that's what was starting to happen in our database."
Is a weak excuse, you have what 300k subscribers, a few characters on each account, with only 1 training each time, if that is your reason then you are in serious need to upgrade your databases and their code.
I really don't know anymore, my frustration with how you have been conducting your business lately is reaching a breaking point for me I fear.
For us low on time for playing and casual players you are starting to offer low value for money as it is, with only one character trainable per account, and with high end skills taking weeks up to months to train I find it very hard to justify paying for a clock ticking for such a long period. That is something I would have shadow trained in the past and then come back with new-found interest in the game with the access of a new skill or ship and after a bit of time away.
I have been running two accounts for about a year now, but your recent decision to increase the cost of the game by about 20% per day by discontinuing 90D GTCs, and your now publicly untruthfully reasoned end of shadow training, for let's face it the reason is you are hoping to increase your bottom line by this nothing more nothing less, is really starting to push this players willingness to pay away from the utility he feels he would receives in return for such expenditure.
I am no doubt alone in feeling in this way, and don't forget that in the light of the world economic downturn, contrary to Keynes suggestion of increased aggregate demand spending in response to such events, most people will start to hold back on luxury expenditures if pushed to far and lets face it, online gaming is one such luxury many may chose is not worth spending money on anymore.
======================== Real men structure tank.
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Demonos Silentium
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Posted - 2008.10.19 03:04:00 -
[4530]
Originally by: Ryuu Katsu
Your quote of:
"Now a single customer that doesn't log into the servers may not weigh heavily on our database infrastructure, just as a single snowflake isn't that heavy, hardly a measurable quantity. But it's hard not to notice an avalanche if it hits you. And that's what was starting to happen in our database."
i myself aint that much against this cancelling of a ghost training but this metaphore brought up interesting "countermetaphore" . sure. that 1 snowflake wont feel when the avalanche hits you. BUT that 1 snowflake does make the difference if there will be an avalanche
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Clansworth
Burning Sky Labs Libertas Fidelitas
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Posted - 2008.10.19 03:06:00 -
[4531]
The thing missed here is that a large portion of the playerbase was ASKING for this change, myself included. A skill queue or same skill continuation would be beneficial to ALL players, not just the on-and-off ones, and this change is a needed step towards that end.
POS Personal Storage |
ViolenTUK
Gallente Vindicated Exiles
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Posted - 2008.10.19 03:29:00 -
[4532]
A large portion of the eve user base wasn't asking for this change. This change was not needed at all.
The removal of "Ghost Training" |
Lady Sheiba
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Posted - 2008.10.19 03:47:00 -
[4533]
Originally by: Clansworth The thing missed here is that a large portion of the playerbase was ASKING for this change, myself included. A skill queue or same skill continuation would be beneficial to ALL players, not just the on-and-off ones, and this change is a needed step towards that end.
Your alliance mates must be very proud of you. A large proportion of the player base are very happy that CCP introduced this new feature, as you can see many of them posted their appreciation in this thread.
Expires: 20/11/2008 05:28:54 Expires: 10/11/2008 16:27:17 Expires: 19/11/2008 19:33:45
I cba to renew them, CCP are taking us for a ride, most of the Eve revenue stream now is being diverted to get their vampire mmo of the ground that's why they have raised gtc prices and are now trying to squeez more dollars out of their customers.
But I'm only one snowflake.
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Demonos Silentium
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Posted - 2008.10.19 03:57:00 -
[4534]
Originally by: Lady Sheiba
Originally by: Clansworth The thing missed here is that a large portion of the playerbase was ASKING for this change, myself included. A skill queue or same skill continuation would be beneficial to ALL players, not just the on-and-off ones, and this change is a needed step towards that end.
Your alliance mates must be very proud of you. A large proportion of the player base are very happy that CCP introduced this new feature, as you can see many of them posted their appreciation in this thread.
Expires: 20/11/2008 05:28:54 Expires: 10/11/2008 16:27:17 Expires: 19/11/2008 19:33:45
I cba to renew them, CCP are taking us for a ride, most of the Eve revenue stream now is being diverted to get their vampire mmo of the ground that's why they have raised gtc prices and are now trying to squeez more dollars out of their customers.
But I'm only one snowflake.
actually surprisingly many are mostly complaining how ccp handled this. like i am for example. imo they should have put months "warning" time before doing such things. not just deiciding something and put 48h warning timer on it.
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Clair Bear
Coalition of Nations Free Trade Zone.
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Posted - 2008.10.19 03:57:00 -
[4535]
Originally by: Rektide Combined with your doubly effective screw over of the GTC market (firstly raising the $/day rate massively and secondly reducing market choice competition thereby increasing GTC isk cost thereby reducing affordability of GTC) its pretty clear what your intents are.
No, I think it is you who is a bit confused on the GTC topic. It is definitely not in CCP's best interest to raise the $/ISK conversion rate into the stratosphere. If $35 buys 1.5-2x as much ISK as $38 used to before the nerfs the end result will be fewer GTCs bought and converted to ISK per unit time. And in the end less $/month to CCP.
I think they made the same assumption they're making in cancelling ghost training: there will be 0 losses in # of accounts due to the change, and the extra $ resulting from increased demand will be a welcome boost to revenue. The reality I suspect is nothing like that.
You're dead on right on everything else you've said in this thread tough.
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Clair Bear
Coalition of Nations Free Trade Zone.
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Posted - 2008.10.19 04:11:00 -
[4536]
Originally by: Lady Sheiba
I cba to renew them, CCP are taking us for a ride, most of the Eve revenue stream now is being diverted to get their vampire mmo of the ground that's why they have raised gtc prices and are now trying to squeez more dollars out of their customers.
You know, during a tinfoil hat moment I had the same thought. Computer Associates does this with products of companies it assimilates. Stop new development, ratchet support down to bare minimum, and keep whatever customers remain -- they'll stay no matter how they're treated. With this model you can easily project your revenues for years going forward.
We don't have the numbers on subscriber growth. So maybe those numbers are saying 'further growth will take inordinate investment.' The natural outcome is ... what I said above.
The last few 'expansions' have been very slim compared to previous ones. If you look at CCP's financials you will see a huge increase in headcount and operational cost. The obvious answer is: they're developing something OTHER than eve.
Pieces fit, and I wouldn't be too shocked if the puzzle paints the above picture.
Quote:
But I'm only one snowflake.
Same.
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Lady Sheiba
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Posted - 2008.10.19 04:36:00 -
[4537]
Originally by: Clair Bear
You know, during a tinfoil hat moment I had the same thought. Computer Associates does this with products of companies it assimilates. Stop new development, ratchet support down to bare minimum, and keep whatever customers remain -- they'll stay no matter how they're treated. With this model you can easily project your revenues for years going forward.
We don't have the numbers on subscriber growth. So maybe those numbers are saying 'further growth will take inordinate investment.' The natural outcome is ... what I said above.
The last few 'expansions' have been very slim compared to previous ones. If you look at CCP's financials you will see a huge increase in headcount and operational cost. The obvious answer is: they're developing something OTHER than eve.
Pieces fit, and I wouldn't be too shocked if the puzzle paints the above picture.
Yes I'm basing my assumption on CCP financial data, when you take in the fact which you pointed out about the last two expansions being very bare and the fact that it has been ages since they updated the server. It seems the only reasonable to assume that alot of the revenue is being redirected/invested into the upcoming vampire mmo. Obviously in the hope to produce a second successful mmo but this also reduces their income tax bill greatly.
Tinfoil: Kaupthing/investors/CCP/accounts
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Davina Braben
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Posted - 2008.10.19 04:56:00 -
[4538]
This irritates me.
The announcement irritates me because it's full of twaddle.
Balance? DB load? Reaaalllly?
The spirit this was done in irritates me because basically CCP have noticed a bunch of people unsubbing because of money worries and this is the kneejerk to get people to stay subbed.
I suspect this is why the GTCs only come in 60 day flavour now too.
The logic of this irritates me because I very much suspect that unsubbed training was a really good mechanism to keep people coming back after time away and to get them to run more than one account (which is, lets not forget, a recurring theme with the marketing).
Lets not forget the WoW expansion
Haven't done a survey but anecdotally I am inclined towards the belief that this measure will decrease revenue overall because an alt account subbed every 2/3 months > an alt account subbed not at all and a main account lapsed for a month or three then resubbed > a main account unsubbed.
Some money (even less than what you might regard as full selling price) > No money.
Maybe I'm wrong and checking the calendar against the skill end dates is tremendous server load costing CCP every bit of the subscription fee to manage and maybe this will have no impact on their revenue.
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snotvomit
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Posted - 2008.10.19 05:12:00 -
[4539]
Well, taking a look here:
stats
...and looking at the bottom graph - for subscriptions since the game started - it looks like the number of subscribers logging in has levelled off and is now starting to fall.
The numbers were falling since their peak in March this year. This was pointed out during the summer but people said "hey, it's summer - they'll all be back in the autumn"
Well, here we are in Autumn and the numbers are still falling. I suspect that the change in GTC pricing contributed to this.
The "Ghost Training" debacle won't help. I have cancelled both my subscriptions which run out in December. I have never used Ghost training, but the way CCP have handled this is utterly insulting.
I'll keep an eye on the forums and maybe re-subscribe if CCP seem to be improving, but if I find another game that can hold my attention and seems to have a better company behind it, then I won't be back. In any event, I'll be using timecodes in future - CCP will never have a guaranteed regular subscription from me again.
CCP deserve to fail as a company. Eve is a great game, but CCP suck. If Eve has to die to kill CCP, then I'm all for it - good game or no.
I really am keeping my fingers crossed that this decision by CCP finally finishes them off. There was the T20 affair, then the boot.ini mess, then the cynical garbage about why they changed the timecards, now the even MORE cynical garbage about why they removed Ghost Training.
Those of us who disagree with CCPs handling of this can only have an effect if we cancel subscription. If they get away with this, they'll do it again and again.
My guess is that a price-hike on subscriptions is on the way next. They'll probably say it's to "increase the perceived value of the product" or some shite like that. |
Davina Braben
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Posted - 2008.10.19 05:15:00 -
[4540]
Edited by: Davina Braben on 19/10/2008 05:15:26
Quote: CCP suck
It could be worse. You could play a SOE game.
They're not that bad.
I just don't think this is going to do what they're hoping it will.
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snotvomit
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Posted - 2008.10.19 05:21:00 -
[4541]
Originally by: Davina Braben Edited by: Davina Braben on 19/10/2008 05:15:26
Quote: CCP suck
It could be worse. You could play a SOE game.
They're not that bad.
I just don't think this is going to do what they're hoping it will.
Agreed. CCP are not as bad as SOE, but that's not saying much really. Horse shit is less offensive than dog shit, but I wouldn't like either on a sandwich. |
Ream Macrobutt
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Posted - 2008.10.19 05:33:00 -
[4542]
Rektide is one of the very clearest thinkers and posters in this thread. I did Google for some of his stuff on other sites and he is crystal clear there, too. Rektide, I salute you.
For those of you on each side of this issue I would like to offer a viewpoint I have not yet seen in the discussion:
There is no actual issue of getting anything while not paying a subscription. How is this? Simple: You are paying the subscription at the time you earn the ISK to buy the skillbook and at the time you initiate the "training." What you are actually doing is spending your resources, while actively in the game, to get a fixed completion date/time calculated at the very moment you initiate the "training." It's bought and paid for in advance. The apparency of ongoing training is 100% illusion. There is no server activity or load involved unless CCP has done some very bad and amateur programming. The completion date/time is determined at the moment you submit the skillbook to initiate the training. Anytime you examine the status of the training, only then does the client construct the illusion of an ongoing process and tick off the SPs and tick down the remaining time, all based simply on getting the completion date/time from the server, a completion date/time already calculated at the instant the training was initiated.
So... since there is no actual training activity, it would be very reasonable to view the "training" as something already bought and paid for at the moment you initiated the training, the result being yours as an earned right regardless of whether or not the subscription goes into suspension before the pre-calculated finish date/time. In this view, CCP is now fraudulently denying you a "training" completion you have already bought and paid for, by linking it artificially to new subscription renewals.
For those of you who think "training" is some kind of load on the servers... it isn't. It's just a completion date/time stored in your char info in the database. Anytime it's looked at, which can only be done if your sub is currently active, your Eve client calculates the difference between the skill completion date/time and the current server date/time and shows you how "long" it has to go until completion. THERE IS NO PROCESS GOING ON.
For those of you (apparently including dimwits in CCP) who think the unsub training was a lost revenue opportunity, the same error has been made in valuing the "losses" caused by illegally copied music and movies. In the latter cases the RIAA and MPAA like to claim that they "lost" the sale value of any and all downloaded items found on someone's computer. Sure. They imply that some 15-yr-old with 10,000 songs would actually have gone out and BOUGHT THOSE??? Not likely. Even few people with jobs would spend that kind of money. So if the alternative would NOT have been sales, then they didn't lose all that money they claim they lost. At most they may have lost a tiny fraction, and recent studies seem to show that downloaders buy a lot more of the legitimate copies of what they download than non-downloaders.
So... It's erroneous for CCP or any posters here to presume that the unsub training time would have been or will be otherwise paid for as subscription time. The reality is that it has been a side-effect benefit to subscribers that could not and never can be converted to subscription revenue. By making this egregiously stupid and misinformed change, all CCP can do is reduce their revenue, not increase it.
And I for one am making sure that CCP gets less of my money while this abomination persists than they got before. I never made much intentional use of it but I am now reducing the % of time my subs are active. The people who pushed this through should lose their jobs.
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Ream Macrobutt
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Posted - 2008.10.19 05:44:00 -
[4543]
Originally by: Davina Braben Maybe I'm wrong and checking the calendar against the skill end dates is tremendous server load costing CCP every bit of the subscription fee to manage and maybe this will have no impact on their revenue.
You're wrong. It's no server load at all. At the moment you submit a skillbook to initiate training, the completion date/time is calculated according to your attributes and the skill step attributes. That results in a couple of data items updated in your char info in the database stored on the servers. It's static. During the "training" nothing changes and no server has to do anything. If you examine the status of your training, which you can only do if you are paying and active, your Eve client subtracts the current server date/time from the completion date/time and calculates how much time remains at this moment.. and at this next moment... all done in the client. No server load at all.
And when your sub goes into suspension, you can't log in, therefore you can't have your Eve client retrieve char info from the server, the char info is not even accessed and there is no load whatsoever.
Other than that, you're right.
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Ream Macrobutt
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Posted - 2008.10.19 05:47:00 -
[4544]
Originally by: Davina Braben Maybe I'm wrong and checking the calendar against the skill end dates is tremendous server load costing CCP every bit of the subscription fee to manage and maybe this will have no impact on their revenue.
You're wrong. It's no server load at all. At the moment you submit a skillbook to initiate training, the completion date/time is calculated according to your attributes and the skill step attributes. That results in a couple of data items updated in your char info in the database stored on the servers. It's static. During the "training" nothing changes and no server has to do anything. If you examine the status of your training, which you can only do if you are paying and active, your Eve client subtracts the current server date/time from the completion date/time and calculates how much time remains at this moment.. and at this next moment... all done in the client. No server load at all.
And when your sub goes into suspension, you can't log in, therefore you can't have your Eve client retrieve char info from the server, the char info is not even accessed and there is no load whatsoever.
Other than that, you're right.
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Drew Falcon
Snake Assault The Red Skull
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Posted - 2008.10.19 06:27:00 -
[4545]
Yeah... there's no way CCP could ever look "good" to the consumer by doing this, it's a cashgrab, everybody knows it. I think I accidently ghost trained once, for a week or so, never really put that much thought into it I guess. Really, it just makes sense to pay for your training time. Think about it for a couple of seconds, if the concept of ghost training sounds a little underhanded, it probably is, and I never really could see the practicality of stopping and starting up an account during long-ass skill trains anyway. Then again you are dealing with hardcore MMO players. Anyway, the ones making the biggest deal about it will quit for a week and come right back when boredom peaks. These things tend to blow over with little memory remaining, (BOB's tech 2 BPO's anybody?)
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Sentient Mayhem
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Posted - 2008.10.19 06:37:00 -
[4546]
I for one will not be subsidizing CCP's new vampire MMO with what I pay to them for Eve. The time card move and now this. It seems obvious they trying to squeeze everything they can out of Eve to fund the new MMO.
This is actually going to cost them revenue though, not increase it. I'm sure CCP thought that the ghost trainers would start staying subbed year round and that no one would leave permanently over this. Their calculation was way off. It was the ghost training that encouraged individuals to run multiple accounts. Without it, the majority of indivuals running multiple accounts are going to let them stay cancelled...and perhaps even unsub their main accounts out of principle.
Bad move CCP. Whatever your motive, all you've managed to do is cost yourself further revenue and alienate your player base who were still sore from the time code change.
I all but guarantee you that in a few months time when as individuals subscriptions expire, you are going to find yourself with far fewer active subscriptions that you do today. I cancelled my last 2 accounts today. Time to play Warhammer. It will be a breath of fresh air to deal with a company who actually seems to care about their customers.
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Lord Fitz
Project Amargosa
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Posted - 2008.10.19 06:51:00 -
[4547]
Originally by: Davina Braben Maybe I'm wrong and checking the calendar against the skill end dates is tremendous server load costing CCP every bit of the subscription fee to manage and maybe this will have no impact on their revenue.
Before this change, that checking was only done when you logged in, only after you got past the login server which was connected to the payment data. (so it was only possible for paid accounts to cause any load.
After this change the billing server needs to be connected to the live server, in order to make a database change when people deactivate their accounts. So the reverse is true, this change will CAUSE the very issue they touted it as solving.
Originally by: CCP t0rfifrans CCP is a greedy money chewing monster
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Lord Fitz
Project Amargosa
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Posted - 2008.10.19 07:00:00 -
[4548]
Originally by: Drew Falcon Anyway, the ones making the biggest deal about it will quit for a week and come right back when boredom peaks. These things tend to blow over with little memory remaining, (BOB's tech 2 BPO's anybody?)
It's not the ones making the biggest deal about it that are going to cause the drop in subscription numbers. The number of accounts people have each, and the number that get reactivated are going to drop the hardest. The 'emo rage quit' is going to be by far a minor effect in comparison. The carrot is more effective than the stick. CCP may have got out the stick, but they also got rid of the carrot.
The T2 BPO incident, while deplorable, didn't actually effect anyone 'directly' and given the passage of time and things like dyspro moons, any long standing effect they had is certainly now insignificant. 60 Day GTCs, I could see while not the best way to do it, is somewhat of a billing issue. It didn't affect the live server directly. The ratio between isk and GTC's wasn't really CCP's to set. Of course now less $$$ buys more ISK, people need to spend less $$$, which decreases supply (also decreasing because IRL people have less free $$$ these days), and this further increases the amount of ISK you get for your $$$. Again, forcing away more players (as many many people while paying for their main account, used this to justify alts that they wouldn't pay for.
Imagine IRL, if you had a discount food offer on Tuesdays say, because Tuesdays were your lowest business days. And you noticed on other days your business wasn't as busy any more. Cancel your discount day? Or offer better value on other days ? If price/value was a concern for people, giving them less value isn't going to cause them to spend more, it's going to cause them to spend less.
Originally by: CCP t0rfifrans CCP is a greedy money chewing monster
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Lady Sheiba
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Posted - 2008.10.19 07:05:00 -
[4549]
Originally by: Lord Fitz
Originally by: Davina Braben Maybe I'm wrong and checking the calendar against the skill end dates is tremendous server load costing CCP every bit of the subscription fee to manage and maybe this will have no impact on their revenue.
Before this change, that checking was only done when you logged in, only after you got past the login server which was connected to the payment data. (so it was only possible for paid accounts to cause any load.
After this change the billing server needs to be connected to the live server, in order to make a database change when people deactivate their accounts. So the reverse is true, this change will CAUSE the very issue they touted it as solving.
I thought that too, but in reality it won't cause any load. It will simple increase downtime by a very tiny amount, as they will do this checking during downtime. At the moment if your sub runs out, your account is only deactivated during downtime, I figure they now run a code associated with this deactivation which will pause any skill training on the account.
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Ream Macrobutt
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Posted - 2008.10.19 07:06:00 -
[4550]
Originally by: Lord Fitz
Originally by: Davina Braben Maybe I'm wrong and checking the calendar against the skill end dates is tremendous server load costing CCP every bit of the subscription fee to manage and maybe this will have no impact on their revenue.
Before this change, that checking was only done when you logged in, only after you got past the login server which was connected to the payment data. (so it was only possible for paid accounts to cause any load.
After this change the billing server needs to be connected to the live server, in order to make a database change when people deactivate their accounts. So the reverse is true, this change will CAUSE the very issue they touted it as solving.
Precisely. And that is further evidence that they are lying about this whole thing.
What amazes me is that CCP are so stupid that they think this will help them in any way. I didn't actively use this feature (not bug) except occasionally when deactivating an account for other reasons, but the fact that training would complete on schedule gave me a nice warm, fuzzy feeling that CCP had at least a few screws tight and knew what they were doing. Now I know that's not true.
In fact, on the few occasions when I consciously tried to use this feature I found it very difficult to schedule things so that a longish training step would be ready to kick off just before I let an account go into suspension. Without being up in the cap pilot stratosphere I have had damned few training steps available at any time that could keep a char busy for 30 days. Lemme see... BS V? I haven't even tried to do that on my chars.. maybe 1. Astrogeology V? Mining Barge V? My list gets very short after those, and it has rarely been the case that a char of mine was ready to being one of those coincident with my wanting to let the account expire for a while.
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Lord Fitz
Project Amargosa
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Posted - 2008.10.19 07:08:00 -
[4551]
Originally by: Lady Sheiba
Originally by: Lord Fitz
Originally by: Davina Braben Maybe I'm wrong and checking the calendar against the skill end dates is tremendous server load costing CCP every bit of the subscription fee to manage and maybe this will have no impact on their revenue.
Before this change, that checking was only done when you logged in, only after you got past the login server which was connected to the payment data. (so it was only possible for paid accounts to cause any load.
After this change the billing server needs to be connected to the live server, in order to make a database change when people deactivate their accounts. So the reverse is true, this change will CAUSE the very issue they touted it as solving.
I thought that too, but in reality it won't cause any load. It will simple increase downtime by a very tiny amount, as they will do this checking during downtime. At the moment if your sub runs out, your account is only deactivated during downtime, I figure they now run a code associated with this deactivation which will pause any skill training on the account.
It's no coincidence that every day since this was implemented the server has had start-up issues and DT has overrun the scheduled time even on the weekend when they usually don't do extra work on the DB.
Originally by: CCP t0rfifrans CCP is a greedy money chewing monster
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Clansworth
Burning Sky Labs Libertas Fidelitas
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Posted - 2008.10.19 07:25:00 -
[4552]
Originally by: Sentient Mayhem I for one will not be subsidizing CCP's new vampire MMO with what I pay to them for Eve. The time card move and now this. It seems obvious they trying to squeeze everything they can out of Eve to fund the new MMO.
This is nonsense, you do this with every single product you purchase. A part of the profits of any company is spent on R&D on new products, how else do new products come about? The significant difference with CCP is that they are still spending a large amount on R&D for the existing product, so in order to support another, income would have to increase. Also realizing that since their prices are pretty much tied to the US$, and it's real value has dropped significantly in the last couple years, their prices have actually been dropping in real value. Prices go up. It's a fact of life. The only way for the prices to realistically go DOWN for eve would be for them to stop spending on any R&D for it, and just maintain the current status/features. That's not their way of doing things.
It is still by far the best Sci-Fi MMO out there, and IMO, the best MMORPG period. I believe a part of that is the high cost of entry and steep learning curve thinning the playerbase to the ones who REALLY enjoy it. This appears to be turning into just another thing that will thin out the herd a bit.
POS Personal Storage |
Azraeljbs
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Posted - 2008.10.19 07:38:00 -
[4553]
Edited by: Azraeljbs on 19/10/2008 07:56:33 As I mentioned in my earlier post back around page 125 or so, I haven't purposefully used this feature and really had no plans to. I'm not sure if CCP is monitoring the numbers of sold characters since this went live last week. I myself have monitored the character bazaar and noticed a huge jump in activity over the last week. I would love to have kept track of the number of characters being sold compared to the number being bought. When I scanned through that forum on the 16th there was 7 pages of updated threads...compared to 2 or3 on a normal day, and it has stayed at about 3 or 4 ever since. The majority of them were auctions or want to sell threads. That right there should set off some warning bells for CCP. There is no doubt they have made a greivous error, not just in the way they handled this incident but also the way they have conducted buisness for the last year or two. SOE doesn't listen to their players either and look where they are at. No gamers I know will even come near a Sony product anymore. I hate to make the comparison, as CCP has not yet reached this level, but they are on a fast track to ruin in my opinion. The reasons given for this change do not add up as many people have already pointed out. The denial that this is not a money grab just adds fuel to the speculations, esp with the state of the GTC market. As for rage quitting....no I will not close my 4 accounts in rage. However I will be closing 2 with a shake of my head and sigh of bitter dissapointment as I seriously contemplate whether I will close the remaining 2 at their expiration. I truly hope CCP reads every relevant post in this thread, and makes the right decision for both themselves and their player base.
EDIT: spelling
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Clansworth
Burning Sky Labs Libertas Fidelitas
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Posted - 2008.10.19 07:43:00 -
[4554]
Originally by: Azraeljbs I myself have monitored the character bazaar and noticed a huge jump in activity over the last week.
See, it WAS mostly character farmers using the feature, and now that it's gone, they're selling off their stock.. ;-)
POS Personal Storage |
Seth Vorlar
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Posted - 2008.10.19 08:06:00 -
[4555]
Originally by: Clansworth
Originally by: Azraeljbs I myself have monitored the character bazaar and noticed a huge jump in activity over the last week.
See, it WAS mostly character farmers using the feature, and now that it's gone, they're selling off their stock.. ;-)
I cant see the prob of a caracter farmer, he provides other ppl with chars, they subscribe them, they pay them, ok not a full year but maybe a HALF year. Sometimes its better to take te smaller piece off cake than to try to get the big one and fail
Besser der spatz in der hand als die Taube auf dem dach!!! (german lyric)
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Gabriel Virtus
Cassandra's Light Caeruleum Alliance
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Posted - 2008.10.19 08:15:00 -
[4556]
So, now that 2 of my accounts are cancelled and never to be revived again... I was thinking. If I am paying $15 a month for pure training time, I for damn sure have a training que to say the least.
Give me one valid reason, this "service" that I am paying so much for and you are so terribly providing cannot manage to give PAYING customers the benefit of a training que?
Glad it took a technology company 3 days to manage to fix a "technical" issue with the forums and the subsequent hiding of this and other threads on the same topic. No wonder you cannot manage to fix lag, or balance the game for that matter. You cannot even manage a forum.
-GV
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Davina Braben
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Posted - 2008.10.19 08:30:00 -
[4557]
I found this logic impeccable (posted by someone else, somewhere else):
Quote: . The game, at certain times, became very ****ing boring. Everyone knows the feeling. Eve gets a bit shit and you fancy taking a month off so you stick a long skill on in case it gets interesting again. Throw in summers, christmases and a couple of boredom times and hey presto the biggest time sink in the game has just disappeared.
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Tivookz
Caldari IMPERIAL SENATE Pure.
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Posted - 2008.10.19 08:34:00 -
[4558]
Originally by: Gabriel Virtus So, now that 2 of my accounts are cancelled and never to be revived again... I was thinking. If I am paying $15 a month for pure training time, I for damn sure have a training que to say the least.
Give me one valid reason, this "service" that I am paying so much for and you are so terribly providing cannot manage to give PAYING customers the benefit of a training que?
Glad it took a technology company 3 days to manage to fix a "technical" issue with the forums and the subsequent hiding of this and other threads on the same topic. No wonder you cannot manage to fix lag, or balance the game for that matter. You cannot even manage a forum.
-GV
Because they are incompetent.
Like you just stated, they have trouble managing a forum.
They can't even come up with valid reasons to change their game.
Instead of lying so blatantly to the community about ghost training being a BUG they could have just said, we don't think that's fair anymore.
I would still protest but it would be better than lying.
Tiv
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Duskadantor
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Posted - 2008.10.19 09:02:00 -
[4559]
Edited by: Duskadantor on 19/10/2008 09:06:53
Originally by: snotvomit I'll keep an eye on the forums and maybe re-subscribe if CCP seem to be improving, but if I find another game that can hold my attention and seems to have a better company behind it, then I won't be back. In any event, I'll be using timecodes in future - CCP will never have a guaranteed regular subscription from me again.
DONT SAY THAT!
I dont want CCP to change the GTC from 60 to only 90 days.
Besides, using time codes simply means you'll have to pay for more game time than opposed to a shorter 30 day stint for 14.95. So I'd argue that your giving them more money and business using the GTC route. Anyways I dont want CCP or eve to die, so urm :P to you. So why I'm even bothering to mention this could possibly be due to the fact... i wantz to see the number 5000.
EDIT: "Whoo hoo. I gave birth to page 152!"
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Xeronn
Amarr Ordo Drakonis Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2008.10.19 09:07:00 -
[4560]
true
I mean in the end it`s CCP`s call and all we can do is either stay or quit BUT , the way they present this decision is a significant factor (for me at least) in taking the decision to stay or quit.
So I guess the way they handled PR on this one says a lot about CCP and is just as bad (if not worse) then the actual decision to kill ghosttraining its self. Again (for me) , it`s just as important to see how a service provider relates to the customers as it is important to see if the services they provide are worth it.
So even if for me EvE is still worth it now, never really used ghosttraining, third account died, second will probably die aswell and if CCP keeps this chain of ****ups up, probably main will not resubscribe either after winter hollyday break
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thorax spartan
Solar Flux Ltd
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Posted - 2008.10.19 09:12:00 -
[4561]
has ccp even said sorry for the way this was put out by thier pr dept. i find it very hard to beleve that its taken this long to fix a "bug" and if it has they should sack thier programmers. but ninja editing the guides to remove the fact they advitsed it as a game mechanic kinda sucks . i have played eve for over 2 n half years now and this is the worse balls up by ccp i have seen so far...... yes i have used what they now call ghost training wen my work/rl stoped me playing but i always came back cos i knew that i had a skill all trained up i even had a alt which is now not worth activating again Has there even been any real responce from ccp over this complee balls up?
fly safe
thor |
Lord Fitz
Project Amargosa
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Posted - 2008.10.19 09:18:00 -
[4562]
Edited by: Lord Fitz on 19/10/2008 09:21:07
Originally by: Clansworth
Originally by: Azraeljbs I myself have monitored the character bazaar and noticed a huge jump in activity over the last week.
See, it WAS mostly character farmers using the feature, and now that it's gone, they're selling off their stock.. ;-)
By that logic you're a character farmer, because you have a character. It was people that had a character that they were not constantly using, that doesn't make them character farmers, had the change not gone through they probably would have kept them forever and not sold them.
I have never bought or sold any characters, but this change will likely result in me selling one, as I never actually use him anyway. And the plus is, he will net me a lot more ISK as a result. In fact any one who has a high SP char will benefit in this way, making it only harder for new players.
Originally by: CCP t0rfifrans CCP is a greedy money chewing monster
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Gunnanmon
Gallente UNITED STAR SYNDICATE R-I-P
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Posted - 2008.10.19 09:47:00 -
[4563]
Originally by: Lord Fitz In fact any one who has a high SP char will benefit in this way, making it only harder for new players.
Well, at least new players haven't been screwed before.
Oh...wait...
The hidden ghost training eradication reply thread |
Demonos Silentium
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Posted - 2008.10.19 09:58:00 -
[4564]
heheh. if ccp starts making losses with eve i bet blizzard will buy it and then we will have horde with spaceships!
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kan han
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.10.19 10:13:00 -
[4565]
Edited by: kan han on 19/10/2008 10:13:38 just found this in the blogosphere that puts some other stuff into view as well:
Quote: And the answer to the question on a very real impact just stays open: How does the global and local financial crisis touches CCP? The company is based in Iceland which is well known these days for eating the pain financially. They were one of the first countries that needed to stop the money-flow before fully touching ground. Even though CCP is not tired to procolamate that they are a commercial company and that they do love capitalism, they say with no words what kind of impact this very unlovely capitalistic reality has for their company.
In such a situation a company should ask theirself how they can raise the level of faith and trust on the users side that their users still can believe that their pre-paid money for game-time was worth to be paid.
Source
I find the last sentence very interesting, because like with stocks, the way you buy game-time in advance you put in trust into EVE that they will be online for the time paied at the very least.
Now CCP was very on duty to remove "the bug of ghost training".
I would love to see a clear and valid statement from CCP how long the servers will be online and we as users will be able playing regulary guaranteed.
And I know another Bug: Accounts aren't deleted while not paied for them.
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Nemar Tel'Narin
Capital Idea
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Posted - 2008.10.19 10:16:00 -
[4566]
I'm sure in 152 pages this has been covered but someone plz answer me a couple things. I'd even take an ingame evemail answer.
1. OK take out 'ghost training' but not add skill Q'in 2. We have chars who haven't been active 3+ years and prolly won't be back yet they WANT them to come back as they were. 3. I know I saw it somewhere, what's to come back to if not a new 60+ day skill.
I'm sure there are those who abuse it and I'm sure the amount of abusers have risen lately but so have the amount of ppl who are frakin poor due to economy, gas prices etc.
Business aside come on. You aren't loosing that much money vs what you gain IMHO. I seriously ask someone to respond to me with a legit responce. Meaning CCP. Yeah I know. Laughable. Falling over dying from laughter but anyway. Seeing how you can annouce most changes well in advance and get discussion more. Yet we are at your whim and have a simple choice. Either stay and put up with it or leave.
Cheap mans Siggy
Catamarack: Nem, your momma's so fat, BoB thought she was a region and claimed her.
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SPQRMocton
Minmatar Calmarr Technologies
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Posted - 2008.10.19 10:51:00 -
[4567]
OK will you guys who say your going to quit do it already and stop posting ? The herd needs some thinning < I have way to much competition in t2 inventing , all you whiner t2 inventors quit now please. And all you mission running whiners quit please your oversaturation of the the market of rare items is really depressing prices. O and CCP GIVE 'EM HELL don't back down Fly reckless and take chances..............it's more fun |
Doonoo Boonoo
Amarr
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Posted - 2008.10.19 11:21:00 -
[4568]
So....
Customers making use of the Ghost training feature is unfair because it gives players an unfair advantage for free.
Customers buying GTCs and selling them for Isk is fair because it gives players an unfair advantage that they pay CCP for.
I can't wait for Jumpgate-Evolution tbh.
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Lord Fitz
Project Amargosa
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Posted - 2008.10.19 11:24:00 -
[4569]
Originally by: SPQRMocton OK will you guys who say your going to quit do it already and stop posting ? The herd needs some thinning < I have way to much competition in t2 inventing , all you whiner t2 inventors quit now please. And all you mission running whiners quit please your oversaturation of the the market of rare items is really depressing prices. O and CCP GIVE 'EM HELL don't back down
It won't be us T2 inventors quitting, it'll be our customers :(
Originally by: CCP t0rfifrans CCP is a greedy money chewing monster
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ShadowDraqon
Awesome Industries Group
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Posted - 2008.10.19 11:28:00 -
[4570]
Originally by: *****slap
Originally by: ShadowDraqon CCP was losing money.
How can you say CCP was losing $ on it, do you have any facts to back that up?
Losing as in not getting money they could have been making ______________________ I got killed for my kindness no, rly |
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Johnnny B
Caldari Murky Inc. Power Of 3
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Posted - 2008.10.19 13:04:00 -
[4571]
Not too sure if these have been asked....
does a exspired account now stop erning isk, if they have stuff on the market too? also on the contracts?
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Tivookz
Caldari IMPERIAL SENATE Pure.
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Posted - 2008.10.19 13:26:00 -
[4572]
Originally by: Johnnny B Not too sure if these have been asked....
does a exspired account now stop erning isk, if they have stuff on the market too? also on the contracts?
Soon in an EVE online game near you: Removal of all sell orders and contracts when account runs out of subscription time.
After all, ur not paying so why should u earn money!??! HAHA!
Tiv
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DeODokktor
Dark Templars The Fonz Presidium
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Posted - 2008.10.19 13:34:00 -
[4573]
Originally by: Duskadantor Edited by: Duskadantor on 19/10/2008 09:06:53
DONT SAY THAT!
I dont want CCP to change the GTC from 60 to only 90 days.
Besides, using time codes simply means you'll have to pay for more game time than opposed to a shorter 30 day stint for 14.95. So I'd argue that your giving them more money and business using the GTC route. Anyways I dont want CCP or eve to die, so urm :P to you. So why I'm even bothering to mention this could possibly be due to the fact... i wantz to see the number 5000.
EDIT: "Whoo hoo. I gave birth to page 152!"
Iceland took a huge dip in monetary loss due to the recent banking crisis.. As such ccp's bank balance and income have gone up by 20% while the staff pay has not moved.. MMORPG Companys "typically" make a mint after a few years of rolling, unless they are plowing every penny extra back into a new mmorpg then there's no way ccp would let this go..
A lot of us feel this was just a quick knee-jerk moneygrab..
CCP giving a 3 month warning on this change (or warning before pushing people to buy 2nt accounts) would have made a world of difference.
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Turismo
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Posted - 2008.10.19 14:00:00 -
[4574]
Originally by: Nemar Tel'Narin
I'm sure there are those who abuse it and I'm sure the amount of abusers have risen lately...
It wasn't a question of abuse. If it was a bug people were exploiting it and if it was a feature people were availing themselves of it. It doesn't matter how much or how little it was used by any individual.
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Jessy Jin
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Posted - 2008.10.19 14:23:00 -
[4575]
IMO declaring it as a bug now just to get a reason to turn it off is ridiculous. If I remember correctly it was turned off on the Chinese server several months ago... At that time they left it enabled on the European server and now all of a sudden it's a bug? You should really work on your credibility!
I just hope people will react on this and maybe CCP may recognize the big mistake (the decision and the way to tell their players) they have done!
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Squirrrel
Gallente Squirrrel Industries
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Posted - 2008.10.19 15:00:00 -
[4576]
Originally by: Drew Falcon
Anyway, the ones making the biggest deal about it will quit for a week and come right back when boredom peaks. These things tend to blow over with little memory remaining, (BOB's tech 2 BPO's anybody?)
That alone may not be enough reason for someone to quit.
That added to other events, changes and the way CCP tried to treat it's subscriber base like total morons.. well... the T20 thing was yet another snowflake.
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Clair Bear
Coalition of Nations Free Trade Zone.
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Posted - 2008.10.19 15:33:00 -
[4577]
Edited by: Clair Bear on 19/10/2008 15:33:06
Originally by: SPQRMocton
The herd needs some thinning < I have way to much competition in t2 inventing , all you whiner t2 inventors quit now please.
Look at how stupid you are. T2 inventors and other advanced players make FAAAAR more ISK / month than a GTC costs, it's a huge loss for them to ghost train. (estimated 1-3B/month loss each ghost trained month for this account). Each alt account I shut down cost me at least 500M/month since August.
The people who need this are younger characters using the feature to get to the point of being able to fit t2. Being a newbie these days is rough -- flying a t1 frigate when most of the playersbase is in nanoed out t2 HACs is exactly 0 fun.
In my case the last ghost train (I can't finish a 30+ day skill while an account is funded, I have eve training ADD) was for jump drive optimization V, to let me *BUY UP* over 2B of your t2 a week for hauling to were it gets destroyed -- deep 0.0. Guess that's another bil or two a week you'll just have to move using .01 isk games.
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Gone'Postal
Minmatar Rage of Inferno
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Posted - 2008.10.19 16:03:00 -
[4578]
Nice move CCP.
5 years from feature to bug.
just one question,
Who in the love of god 5 years ago submitted the bug report for this?
Boost SISI VOTE NOW! |
Chi Reyl
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Posted - 2008.10.19 16:33:00 -
[4579]
Has CCP had changes in the management lately? Somehow they seem to be going the wrong way lately!
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Clansworth
Burning Sky Labs Libertas Fidelitas
|
Posted - 2008.10.19 16:50:00 -
[4580]
Edited by: Clansworth on 19/10/2008 16:54:37
Originally by: Lord Fitz Edited by: Lord Fitz on 19/10/2008 09:21:07
Originally by: Clansworth
See, it WAS mostly character farmers using the feature, and now that it's gone, they're selling off their stock.. ;-)
By that logic you're a character farmer, because you have a character. It was people that had a character that they were not constantly using, that doesn't make them character farmers, had the change not gone through they probably would have kept them forever and not sold them.
I have never bought or sold any characters, but this change will likely result in me selling one, as I never actually use him anyway. And the plus is, he will net me a lot more ISK as a result. In fact any one who has a high SP char will benefit in this way, making it only harder for new players.
Jeez, I was just joking, but I guess I should have known better than to try to put some humor in the middle of a full-scale bi+ch-fest. I just don't like the idea of selling characters, but that's for a few reasons. First, it's a RP thing for me. Second, I think people should do their time and learn the game as they go, not start out with a bunch of skills they don't know how to properly use. Third, characters in EvE carry with them a history, and I just see far to many instances of people having to explain that 'that was me before my brain transplant' or something. The fact is, unlike most MMO's, the game is just as much fun in a frigate as it is in a battleship, so why not enjoy the journey?
POS Personal Storage |
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Soma Khan
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Posted - 2008.10.19 17:41:00 -
[4581]
Tsk-tsk! Such bitterness over losing a freebie in a computer game!
Is there a more convincing way to show that you have no life? Probably not. ___
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Squirrrel
Gallente Squirrrel Industries
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Posted - 2008.10.19 18:05:00 -
[4582]
Originally by: Soma Khan Tsk-tsk! Such bitterness over losing a freebie in a computer game!
Is there a more convincing way to show that I haven't really read enough of the thread to understand the backlash? Probably not.
There, that's better.
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Tivookz
Caldari IMPERIAL SENATE Pure.
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Posted - 2008.10.19 19:21:00 -
[4583]
Originally by: Soma Khan Tsk-tsk! Such bitterness over losing a freebie in a computer game!
Is there a more convincing way to show that you have no life? Probably not.
Some people don't like being lied to.
I guess your girlfriend is free to do whatever she wants considering that statement.
Tiv
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IR Scoutar
Caldari State War Academy
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Posted - 2008.10.19 19:41:00 -
[4584]
i still have that moral dilemma
on the one hand i love the game (because well its the only space mmo out there that does everything)
but on the other hand i dont feel like giving a company money that lies in my face :/ (and is also plagued by the mediocre bug )
what to do what to do
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Ra Jackson
Solarflare Heavy Industries Pure.
|
Posted - 2008.10.19 20:11:00 -
[4585]
Originally by: Clansworth The significant difference with CCP is that they are still spending a large amount on R&D for the existing product, so in order to support another, income would have to increase.
concerning the recent changes to the game I sometimes wonder if it was better for them spending less on EVE R&D and just leave it alone.
hi CCP, less $ from me.
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Soma Khan
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Posted - 2008.10.19 20:23:00 -
[4586]
Originally by: Tivookz
Originally by: Soma Khan Tsk-tsk! Such bitterness over losing a freebie in a computer game!
Is there a more convincing way to show that you have no life? Probably not.
Some people don't like being lied to.
I guess your girlfriend is free to do whatever she wants considering that statement.
Tiv
Who lied to you?
And what does your girlfriend have to do with this thread? Do you really think this is a good place to vent your personal angst? ___
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Squirrrel
Gallente Squirrrel Industries
|
Posted - 2008.10.19 21:02:00 -
[4587]
Originally by: Soma Khan
Who lied to you?
Originally by: Soma Khan
Is there a more convincing way to show that I haven't really read enough of the thread to understand the backlash? Probably not.
... And again.
Seriously. Read the thread properly, do some research please.
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Brother Welcome
Amarr Suddenly Ninjas Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
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Posted - 2008.10.19 21:29:00 -
[4588]
Originally by: ninjaholic STFU you spoiled b**tards. CCP should've never allowed you all to ghost train in the first place, and you're screwing them out of money. At a time when money is pretty damn important and pays for the hardware upgrades so you li'l b**tards stop complaining about lag.
Any argument that ghost-skilling takes away money from important Eve features is fallacious. Look at CCP's accounts (posted a few pages back). They reveal a large exceptional expense, likely related to their deal with White Wolf. A deal that offers little to people who love Eve and want Eve to be better.
Note that my argument is not whether CCP should or should not invest in other games. I'm just pointing out a fault in your line of reasoning.
-vk
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Chani Fedaykin
|
Posted - 2008.10.19 21:34:00 -
[4589]
Originally by: Soma Khan [snip]stuff[/snip] Who lied to you? [snip]irrelevant[/snip]
did u ever happen to think about the reasons ccp gave for the removal of unpaid training?
if you think those are valid, proveable facts - then you should perhaps read some of the posts in this thread and think about it again.
if not - you just answered your own question. |
Sentient Mayhem
|
Posted - 2008.10.19 21:37:00 -
[4590]
Edited by: Sentient Mayhem on 19/10/2008 21:44:51
Originally by: Clansworth
Originally by: Sentient Mayhem I for one will not be subsidizing CCP's new vampire MMO with what I pay to them for Eve. The time card move and now this. It seems obvious they trying to squeeze everything they can out of Eve to fund the new MMO.
This is nonsense, you do this with every single product you purchase. A part of the profits of any company is spent on R&D on new products, how else do new products come about? The significant difference with CCP is that they are still spending a large amount on R&D for the existing product, so in order to support another, income would have to increase. Also realizing that since their prices are pretty much tied to the US$, and it's real value has dropped significantly in the last couple years, their prices have actually been dropping in real value. Prices go up. It's a fact of life. The only way for the prices to realistically go DOWN for eve would be for them to stop spending on any R&D for it, and just maintain the current status/features. That's not their way of doing things.
It is still by far the best Sci-Fi MMO out there, and IMO, the best MMORPG period. I believe a part of that is the high cost of entry and steep learning curve thinning the playerbase to the ones who REALLY enjoy it. This appears to be turning into just another thing that will thin out the herd a bit.
You are wrong. Every company does not do this. At least not to the extent where the existing products long term survival are being sacrificed to support the development of the new product. I've been a customer of a MMO company in the past that was pursuing the development of a new MMO.(Dark Age of Camelot) Inevitably the customers of the original product begin to suffer as the most talented employees are deployed to work on the new game and the "B" team left behind to run the original game aren't up to the task. As the development of the new game moves into full swing, resources and finances become strained and short sighted decisions are made that will hurt the game long term but the company see's a possible short term gain and so they make the decision anyway. What do they care? If the new MMO is a hit, the fate of the original product is not nearly so important.
I believe that is exactly what we are seeing here. A "B" team left in the custody of Eve while the "A" team focuses his efforts on CCP's new MMO. We are also seeing the short sighted decisions which is going to cost Eve players(customers) long term but CCP is doing it anyway because they see it as a solution which might raise precious extra revenues short term.
They miscalculated this time though. Unlike the Time Card change which may have netted them additional short term revenues, this decision is going to cost them dearly right away. I believe they are going to see a noticeable drop in active subscriptions in as short as a months time. Give it 2 to 3 months for many of the active subs to run out, you are going to see an even bigger drop.
For the CCP Fanboi's who are saying good riddance to those quitting, you are pure idiots. The game you like to play is not going to be so much fun as the downward spiral of player departures takes its toll on the active player population. And if you think CCP has issues now running this game properly, just wait to see what you have in store when they have significantly less revenue from lost subscriptions to work with while still having relatively the same overhead to cover.
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Hairy Manballs
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Posted - 2008.10.19 22:14:00 -
[4591]
Well any company wants to have a product portfolio.
You can't rely on just one product for revenue indefinitely unless you're Blizzard.
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Sentient Mayhem
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Posted - 2008.10.19 22:29:00 -
[4592]
Edited by: Sentient Mayhem on 19/10/2008 22:32:55
Originally by: Hairy Manballs Well any company wants to have a product portfolio.
You can't rely on just one product for revenue indefinitely unless you're Blizzard.
That is true. But its the approach. Most companies don't gamble with the future of their existing product to finance their development of a possible new one. That is what CCP is doing here. Making very short sighted decisions that are threatening the long term survival of Eve to raise extra funds for a new MMO that very few existing players of Eve are going to be interested in.
If CCP is not in a comfortable enough financial position with the normal operating profits to pursue other opportunities, perhaps this isn't the time then to make the massive investment that developing a new MMO in today's market place takes. Or pehaps they need to look at taking on a more financially secure partner like Mythic did when they let Electronic Arts purchase them.
I really have no interest in watching the life get sucked out of Eve so that CCP can try to develop a new MMO that I have absolutely no desire to play.
There is a big difference between a company investing their normal operating profits to try and develop a new product verses taking on a project of such magnitude that it all but requires them to make business decisions that are going to be detrimental to the long term survival of their existing product.
Developing a new MMO in today's environment, with all the competition, is a endeavor that takes 10's of million of dollars. Perhaps hundreds of millions of dollars if one is to believe the press surrounding the launch of Age of Conan and Warhammer. Where do you think CCP is coming up with that money? How can they come up with that kind of money without it impacting Eve?
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Dhunter
Dkiller Delta Force Corp. CORPVS DELICTI
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Posted - 2008.10.19 23:24:00 -
[4593]
BTW, it was never called ôghost trainingö until just now when they decided to nerf it. ThatÆs part of the PR spin. ôGhost trainingö makes it sound mildly sneaky and illegitimate. In the 5+ years IÆve been intensively participating in Eve theyÆve shot themselves in both feet a number of times. Their sleazy PR and spin and playing games with threads has become pretty solid evidence to me that they are corrupt and untrustworthy.
IÆm not at all sure that this faux pas will be the final nail in their coffin, but IÆm not the only one in their Forums to express the opinion that IÆd be willing to see Eve go away if it would be the price of seeing CCP punished by going out of business. Eve, a generally great MMOG, is severly tarnished by CCPÆs low standard of ethics and attitude. The management folks who made this happen should be fired on the spot. Unfortunately, in inbred Iceland, they wonÆt be.
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Talsha Talamar
Amarr Nebula Rasa Holdings Nebula Rasa
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Posted - 2008.10.19 23:29:00 -
[4594]
Edited by: Talsha Talamar on 19/10/2008 23:34:37 While I can very well understand the reasoning behind this move, it misses to take a major point into account:
Customer Retention
I have 1 main account, that I will, very likely, continue to keep active until I finally loose interest in eve.
Yet of my 2 other accounts, my one account started just to train a specialist for fun, will likely die. The cost for the original 1 month on, a few weeks off routine was exactly, what the project was worth to me.
My industrial account I will likely put active again during phases, where my rl and motivation allow me to dedicate my game time to eve. Yet I doubt that I will set it active again for learning purposes during longer breaks. The removal of Ghost Training in combination with discountinuing the 30 day cards result in a cost benefit relation thats once again not worth it, from my subjective perspective.
So overall CCP will very likely see an reduced income from my account as result of the recent decisions.
The aspect that many player on very long breaks where actually motivated by ghost training to come back and try again after getting some skills, has allready been mentioned.
In the end, only the future will show, if the decision to remove ghost training and the 60 day cards, will result in increased income or backfire.
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Soma Khan
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Posted - 2008.10.19 23:41:00 -
[4595]
Originally by: Chani Fedaykin
Originally by: Soma Khan [snip]stuff[/snip] Who lied to you? [snip]irrelevant[/snip]
did u ever happen to think about the reasons ccp gave for the removal of unpaid training?
if you think those are valid, proveable facts - then you should perhaps read some of the posts in this thread and think about it again.
if not - you just answered your own question.
Fact is, CCP did not have to give any reasons whatsoever to remove this freebie. None. After all, playing this game (or even paying for it!) is completely optional, anyone can leave at any time. The fact that CCP is giving you the privilege to vent your angst on their forums is commendable, and is much more than most other commercial enterprises would allow.
Another fact is that the reasons that were given are good enough for any reasonable adult. If you feel those reasons are wrong, and there are others much more to your liking, that is your personal problem. Draw your own conclusions and move on. ___
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Ketanina
|
Posted - 2008.10.19 23:59:00 -
[4596]
Originally by: Lord Fitz
It's no coincidence that every day since this was implemented the server has had start-up issues and DT has overrun the scheduled time even on the weekend when they usually don't do extra work on the DB.
I think they check about training when an account expires. at least my ghost training scheduled until yesterday went through. probably training will be halted next time the account expires. good move on not mentioning this detail ccp. would have spared some confusion.
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Ketanina
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Posted - 2008.10.20 00:01:00 -
[4597]
Originally by: Soma Khan
Fact is, CCP did not have to give any reasons whatsoever to remove this freebie. None.
it was a documented feature. big ****up in my book declaring it a bug when convenient.
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Soma Khan
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Posted - 2008.10.20 00:10:00 -
[4598]
Originally by: Ketanina
Originally by: Soma Khan
Fact is, CCP did not have to give any reasons whatsoever to remove this freebie. None.
it was a documented feature. big ****up in my book declaring it a bug when convenient.
CCP can declare anything they want. Your "book" doesn't count for shit.
I know this will be an exercise in futility, but here is a thread with some choice explanations for those who, like you, just can't get on with their lives. ___
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Mashie Saldana
Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams
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Posted - 2008.10.20 00:10:00 -
[4599]
I see this thread is still going strong after a week which is strange considering everyone is quitting.
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Lysander Kaldenn
Viper Intel Squad Sons of Tangra
|
Posted - 2008.10.20 00:35:00 -
[4600]
Originally by: Mashie Saldana I see this thread is still going strong after a week which is strange considering everyone is quitting.
Only in my dreams... They are too busy spamming the forums. "Oh noes! CCP is actually charging for thier product! No! We got it for free once. Now we have to payz! Noooo! Give us free game now or wez will go play Warhammer!"
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LuthienTinuviel
Amarr The Higher Standard
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Posted - 2008.10.20 00:36:00 -
[4601]
Originally by: Mashie Saldana I see this thread is still going strong after a week which is strange considering everyone is quitting.
Points the village idiot to the account management page and asks him to tell me where the CCP refund my remaining subscription and cancel my account with immediate effect button is ... Oh thats right doesn't exist guess I will just have to while away my remaining 40 days sub reminiscing about how good CCP used to be before any decent devs buggered off to WOD online.
CCP - You are now entering the twilight zone where bugs are features and features are bugs |
Takashi Setsu
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Posted - 2008.10.20 00:40:00 -
[4602]
Originally by: LuthienTinuviel
Originally by: Mashie Saldana I see this thread is still going strong after a week which is strange considering everyone is quitting.
Points the village idiot to the account management page and asks him to tell me where the CCP refund my remaining subscription and cancel my account with immediate effect button is ... Oh thats right doesn't exist guess I will just have to while away my remaining 40 days sub reminiscing about how good CCP used to be before any decent devs buggered off to WOD online.
Please get off this forum and make good on your threats. If EvE sucks go else where. Bye bye.
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ViolenTUK
Gallente Vindicated Exiles
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Posted - 2008.10.20 00:43:00 -
[4603]
Originally by: Lysander Kaldenn
Only in my dreams... They are too busy spamming the forums. "Oh noes! CCP is actually charging for thier product! No! We got it for free once. Now we have to payz! Noooo! Give us free game now or wez will go play Warhammer!"
One of the dumbest posts on this thread. You wouldnÆt know, as you have quite clearly not read any of it.
The removal of "Ghost Training" |
LuthienTinuviel
Amarr The Higher Standard
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Posted - 2008.10.20 00:53:00 -
[4604]
Originally by: Takashi Setsu
Originally by: LuthienTinuviel
Originally by: Mashie Saldana I see this thread is still going strong after a week which is strange considering everyone is quitting.
Points the village idiot to the account management page and asks him to tell me where the CCP refund my remaining subscription and cancel my account with immediate effect button is ... Oh thats right doesn't exist guess I will just have to while away my remaining 40 days sub reminiscing about how good CCP used to be before any decent devs buggered off to WOD online.
Please get off this forum and make good on your threats. If EvE sucks go else where. Bye bye.
No worries I am leaving but in the meantime I reserve the right to **** off about CCP that my 3 & 3/4 years of paying subscription to them have earned me oh and if you want me of this forum I suggest you start by using the report button .
CCP - You are now entering the twilight zone where bugs are features and features are bugs |
Ketanina
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Posted - 2008.10.20 01:14:00 -
[4605]
Originally by: Soma Khan
Originally by: Ketanina
Originally by: Soma Khan
Fact is, CCP did not have to give any reasons whatsoever to remove this freebie. None.
it was a documented feature. big ****up in my book declaring it a bug when convenient.
CCP can declare anything they want. Your "book" doesn't count for shit.
lol, it counts for me. do you have something productive?
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yourdoingitwrong
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Posted - 2008.10.20 02:12:00 -
[4606]
WAAAHH I WANT FREE TRAINING *BANGS FISTS AND FEET ON THE FLOOR* I WANT MA TAGETS TO STAY STILL. NERF NANOS *CRYS AND IS GENERALLY EMO WAAAAAHHHHH
eve: the new generation
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Davina Braben
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Posted - 2008.10.20 02:26:00 -
[4607]
Edited by: Davina Braben on 20/10/2008 02:27:52
Quote: Fact is, CCP did not have to give any reasons whatsoever to remove this freebie. None. After all, playing this game (or even paying for it!) is completely optional, anyone can leave at any time. The fact that CCP is giving you the privilege to vent your angst on their forums is commendable, and is much more than most other commercial enterprises would allow.
Have to <> Should.
Customer goodwill is very important, especially for a company in the MMO business.
They aren't selling us sprockets or widgets here. They're providing a service.
Quote: Another fact is that the reasons that were given are good enough for any reasonable adult. If you feel those reasons are wrong, and there are others much more to your liking, that is your personal problem. Draw your own conclusions and move on.
It is only a fact in the sense that you believe it to be true.
Quote: Something believed to be true or real: a document laced with mistaken facts.
Clearly the reasons they gave are not "good enough" for any "reasonable adult" or this would have been a much shorter, much more congratulatory thread.
Most of the reasons they gave made little or no sense and smacked of the most obfuscated PR bullshittery imaginable. Fibbing to the customer makes them cranky and argumentative.
I'd guess that the same announcement minus the bullshit and plus a week or a fortnight's grace period ("Guys, the economy has gone **** up and we really need every penny of subscription revenue at the moment because Gordon Brown stole our servers in London so as of the 22nd...") would have gotten a much less hostile response.
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Mhaerdirne Solveig
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.10.20 03:19:00 -
[4608]
Originally by: Mashie Saldana I see this thread is still going strong after a week which is strange considering everyone is quitting.
You only need one account to post. Signature removed. Text is showing as "Signature no longer available" and filesize is well in excess of the allowed 400 x 120 pixels. Navigator |
Tiberius Decius
Capital Bombardment
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Posted - 2008.10.20 03:36:00 -
[4609]
i was heading towards an eve break for awhile and had just finished setting up carrier 5 (55day training) on my main while i took a break. Now why would i want to resub my account? Now my main wont have decent enough skills for the mothership my alt was putting together. Im not paying for 2 months of eve just so my main's skill can tick over. But yet my alt's constuction time in the POS will still continue....
Especially since it now cost me double the money to subscribe to an account.(AUD almost halved to the USD)
Economicly hard times lets cut down our net turnover = stupid... Who the hell is running your finances?
Maybe ill come back someday when you have an expansion worthy of subscribing for, but until then fallout 3 and diablo 3 here i come
-3 accounts.
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Soma Khan
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Posted - 2008.10.20 04:00:00 -
[4610]
Originally by: Ketanina
Originally by: Soma Khan
Originally by: Ketanina
Originally by: Soma Khan
Fact is, CCP did not have to give any reasons whatsoever to remove this freebie. None.
it was a documented feature. big ****up in my book declaring it a bug when convenient.
CCP can declare anything they want. Your "book" doesn't count for shit.
lol, it counts for me. do you have something productive?
Sure. How about you get a job that allows you the means to pay for your own entertainment, instead of leaching it off a company by trying to shame it into charity? ___
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Kage Psychodin
Caldari The Empire Nation Worlds End Consortium
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Posted - 2008.10.20 04:13:00 -
[4611]
Originally by: LuthienTinuviel
Originally by: Mashie Saldana I see this thread is still going strong after a week which is strange considering everyone is quitting.
Points the village idiot to the account management page and asks him to tell me where the CCP refund my remaining subscription and cancel my account with immediate effect button is ... Oh thats right doesn't exist guess I will just have to while away my remaining 40 days sub reminiscing about how good CCP used to be before any decent devs buggered off to WOD online.
The first one - you knew the terms when you signed up. this would never happen with any MMO, period.
The second one is just hilarious, though. I don't think they'd put quite as many devs on that project, seeing as how its likely gonna tank. (WOD as an RPG system and universe is terrible.) Another one bites the dust. |
IR Scoutar
Caldari State War Academy
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Posted - 2008.10.20 04:17:00 -
[4612]
Originally by: Soma Khan dribble
i've read lots of your replys now and ive come to the conclusion that, as a kid, you must have been very good at putting your hands over your ears and going LALALALALALALALALALALALALALA
i always wondered why certain things in the world could have been, but seeing that there are people like you happily eating shit, just because the spoon is called eve and its actualy a very good concept makes me understand....
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Staberind
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Posted - 2008.10.20 04:23:00 -
[4613]
Originally by: Clansworth
Originally by: Azraeljbs I myself have monitored the character bazaar and noticed a huge jump in activity over the last week.
See, it WAS mostly character farmers using the feature, and now that it's gone, they're selling off their stock.. ;-)
Was mostly? so, despite the fact that the game mechanic was abused in this way, they did not take a more surgical approach, considering they can remove an account, remove alts from accounts etc, or change other factors of the game; like not allowing offline trained alts to be sold so easily. they decided to do this. Farmers exploited a mechanism. the majority of players are farmers now? nope, i was at the point where i could take advantage of this feature, like FIVE years of people before me, and it goes kerplunk. thats my personal gripe. and seeing that the farmed alts are on sale now, just adds insult to injury.
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Clair Bear
Coalition of Nations Free Trade Zone.
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Posted - 2008.10.20 04:35:00 -
[4614]
Originally by: Soma Khan
Sure. How about you get a job that allows you the means to pay for your own entertainment, instead of leaching it off a company by trying to shame it into charity?
I have enough ISK to buy several YEARS of time at current GTC prices. Will I? No. There goes the validity of your whole job stab.
When unsubscribed there is *ZERO* entertainment to be had from eve. No forum whoring, no pewing, no ratting, no squat. The entertainment comes when the customer re-subs. How hard is this to understand?
If I never re-sub it doesn't matter if all my skills trained to V in the meantime or not. If I do re-sub, that's when I get the entertainment. No leeching involved.
This is very simple. CCP reduced the value offered by the service with this nerf. Value it cost them nothing to provide. This doesn't benefit most players in any appreciable way, and only time will tell if it benefits CCP's finances.
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Nitro G
Gallente C.R.I.M.E
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Posted - 2008.10.20 06:05:00 -
[4615]
I rarely post, but this feature, or 'bug' as CCP calls it, was the only reason I have been playing for 5,6 years now. Many times I have left to play other games, knowing I would not be returning to eve a month or 2 behind my community, SP wise.
I used to be proud to tell people I was a player of Eve for almost 6 years. But now I realize that CCP never intended to keep a loyal customer satisfied. I don't even feel like expressing my disappointment as it would probably take a blunt and time that I no longer have 2 spend on this game. My 30 bucks a month will discontinue until CCP changes their mind about this 'fix'.
Nitro G Music |
Loyal Servant
Caldari PURE Legion Pure.
|
Posted - 2008.10.20 06:09:00 -
[4616]
Dropped 3 accounts in protest. No, you cannot have my stuff.
Fact of the matter is that Eve has not been fun for me. I don't get much time to play anymore and I have never knowingly ghost trained any of my accounts with the exception of one time where it dropped for a week due to a card getting declined due to a CCP billing glitch. Then I was aware that it kept training along.
Thing is, I won't be coming back simply because I know that when I do come back I will be behind the curve. I cant turn on carrier 5 and do real life for awhile and take a break.
So, CCP, after all these years I have paid $2,600 into your coffers. Since you think I am some kind of leech because I got a week of 'free' training time so be it. This leech just took $45 a month from you.. and while that may not seem like a lot I won't exactly be bringing in new friends either.
I wish you luck in your business endeavors, because not many people are right now.
I got a lot of good years out of eve, I met a lot of good people and made friends here. I think that was worth more than $2,600 so I don't feel cheated in any way and none of you should either. Vote with your wallet.
Regards, Long time customer that cannot sit by and watch you hurt people that simply need a break.
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Shadow Agony
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Posted - 2008.10.20 06:33:00 -
[4617]
- 1 acc
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Nemar Tel'Narin
Capital Idea
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Posted - 2008.10.20 07:21:00 -
[4618]
One last comment on this subject from me about my opinion of all this.
If CCP spent half as much time fixing bugs as they do tyring to come up with more ways to make more money we'd have a pretty nice game. I mean even simple fix's which take LESS code and effort then almost anything they've done remain as they have for long time now.
Take for instance the whole sex thing in eve. Meaning male/female of course. Now we have female corpse's yet you pod a female char with a bounty and the mail still says "HIS HEAD" and not HER head. Priorities just like with any other large corporation are askew.
Cheap mans Siggy
Catamarack: Nem, your momma's so fat, BoB thought she was a region and claimed her.
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Dr Kalkyl
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.10.20 07:27:00 -
[4619]
Sad to say but I think this new feature will make me go from partly inactive to permanently inactive :( With what little time I have to play there's no point in paying just to get some training. Good luck to ye all.
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Chani Fedaykin
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Posted - 2008.10.20 07:49:00 -
[4620]
Originally by: Soma Khan Fact is, CCP did not have to give any reasons whatsoever to remove this freebie. None. After all, playing this game (or even paying for it!) is completely optional, anyone can leave at any time. The fact that CCP is giving you the privilege to vent your angst on their forums is commendable, and is much more than most other commercial enterprises would allow.
i already stated, that even if i dont think its a good move, i would not object it, if ccp would have been announced that they remove it ... for some VALID reasons.
Originally by: Soma Khan Another fact is that the reasons that were given are good enough for any reasonable adult. If you feel those reasons are wrong, and there are others much more to your liking, that is your personal problem. Draw your own conclusions and move on.
the fact is, that obviously they are good enough for you - which only shows, that you dont care about the reasons given. they could have told you, that they got a phone call of a jove agent, who told them that ghost training should be removed, otherwise the jove empire would take over eve. this statement would have the same validity for any reasonable adult as the few currently given reasons by ccp. |
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Sean Mcarthur
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Posted - 2008.10.20 08:10:00 -
[4621]
hey this treadnought is slowing down, please don't, we need to complain about this "bug". the reason i have for this statement: ccp tried to drown the outcrys with new info about next expansion. If the only way to get info out of CCP is to whine then "I got 37 accounts and if I don't get a respond then i will cancel them all"
Oh and of topic, make something to encourage small group combat so Dax comes back
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Tivookz
Caldari IMPERIAL SENATE Pure.
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Posted - 2008.10.20 08:48:00 -
[4622]
I might be going to the fanfest, this year it might be my last one tho.
I have added 2 things to my must bring list:
1x Pitchfork 1x Torch
CCP, I'm coming for you!
Tiv
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Richard Aiel
Caldari Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2008.10.20 09:00:00 -
[4623]
Originally by: Doonoo Boonoo
I can't wait for Jumpgate-Evolution tbh.
this. ------------------------------------------------ CCP you are your own worst enemy. http://eve.coldfront.net/status/tranquility look at that weird population lag from the 16th to the 17th |
Duskadantor
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Posted - 2008.10.20 09:06:00 -
[4624]
Edited by: Duskadantor on 20/10/2008 09:09:10
There is one thing I haven't read in here. It's how CCP have shown they are in no short supply of cajhones. I'm sure this decision didn't come easily, and I'd very much like to think they expected as much player disdain.
I do agree though, that folk could have been given more of a 'heads up' and possibly a mention of this before the last 'Power of Two' offer. There must be some reason, a real good one, as to why this game exploit/feature/whatever was removed in such a timely fashion by CCP.
Well.. at least I'll try to believe this.
Originally by: Sean Mcarthur hey this treadnought is slowing down, please don't, we need to complain about this "bug".
I'm happy so long as it runs up to 5005!
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Richard Aiel
Caldari Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2008.10.20 09:09:00 -
[4625]
Originally by: Duskadantor There is one thing I haven't read in here. It's how CCP have shown they are in no short supply of cajhones.
You call it cajhones, I call it what ive always called it: CCP not giving a **** cause the player base here just takes the abuse like they like it. I for one WONT be coming back. Im done being a battered wife for CCP ------------------------------------------------ CCP you are your own worst enemy. http://eve.coldfront.net/status/tranquility look at that weird population lag from the 16th to the 17th |
Jinx Barker
GFB Scientific
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Posted - 2008.10.20 09:25:00 -
[4626]
We are not going to see any changes for the next couple of months, I estimate that come december, there will a short spur of activity during the holidays, as people will consolidate accounts, and then come January, we will start to see the trickle down effect with lower numbers:
1) ALT accounts drop off and go permanently inactive 2) People go back to school, and not reactivate because there is no "goodies" waiting at the end. 3) Small spur of activations of new players as we get a new expansion, then usual drop because the game is "too hard." 4) People get burned out, leave, and not come back because, again, no silver lining to the return, as it used to be. 5) More and more turn over of the old players by the new arrivals.
So, real effects of this change will be seen in about 6 months or so, maybe even little longer than that, until then, there is very little we will see on the stats.
::::Click The Signature For the Blog::::
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GOd SAvior
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Posted - 2008.10.20 09:34:00 -
[4627]
Indeed it feels like some economist has taken executive role regarding decision making what to do with Eve. I kinda see them going "hey 90% of players never leave highsec, let's cater(/milk) them". Certificates anyone, wtf?
New players won't care about this (unless they were advertised with the feature). Old ones even might not who already have Carrier 5 and Capital ships 5. Midground (biggest playerbase i guess) that wants to catch up is hurt the most. But guess no economist will understand the game itself.
Hope enough ppl will leave and show that players want to be respected and not to be shat upon. My 4 regurarly active accounts are on the line when GTCs end, soon enough.
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Durzel
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.10.20 09:39:00 -
[4628]
Edited by: Durzel on 20/10/2008 09:40:24 Ouch.
I've been inactive for about a month because I have had an important project on at work, only just found out about this change today so have had to resubscribe purely to keep training my last skill - as it is I've lost about 5 days training time. As things stand I still won't actually be able to play the game until after it completes in over a weeks time.
I guess on the one hand CCPs change worked because I've now had to buy a GTC a week earlier than I would've wanted to, but after that GTC has expired I don't think I'll continue playing.
Eve unique skill system works well for people who don't have every waking second of the day to play the game. I don't really see who I was affecting with my single account ghost-training in the background, I can't help but think that CCP could've been a bit less heavy-handed with this change - I'm sure it would've been trivial to determine how many accounts someone has and only allow one of them to ghost-train at a given time for example.
Really can't see the justification for this outside of pure greed, but hey ho.
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kan han
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.10.20 09:43:00 -
[4629]
If you ask me I would tend to say that it is not the question how long you are willing to play, but how long you will be able to play before CCP must shut down their servers because of them constantly reducing the userbase.
Only because of the financial crisis there was a reduce of the sales more then 37% as far as I am aware of it. This is not an official number but CCP does very little to come up with valid and transparent communication, so I guess those are the numbers to deal with for some time.
This reduce was _before_ Oct 15th. So you now can imagine since more and more users leave the game what will happen.
And it is so perfeclty clear: If there is the decision between getting the butter on your bread or playing an online game, then you decide for the butter. It looks like that CCP did not understand that the financial crisis hit their userbase.
Looks like they need to reduce the prepaid and therefore available gametime to get fresh money again. So it is clear for me, that I will suspend my account and boycott EVE until they take back the changes in training as of Oct 15. That is my personal requirement. But I do not look only at me, I declare my solidarity with those players that are hit by the financial crisis that I won't continue to play until CCP reduces the end-users-gametime-price by 15%. I call it the simple 15/15-Formula.
You are welcome to join me in this user-based EVE-Boycott. You are encouraged to spread the word and discuss it. I think the time is right because they can not afford to loose any more piece of percent of their userbase. Just stop to pre-pay money, you won't by stocks right now, right?
Stop talking about communication problems. Money talks.
Your ingame and rl trader kan han.
-- Use the as a sign to show your solidarity with those players who can not afford to play any longer. Let's make it real that they can come back into game again.
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Demeterus
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Posted - 2008.10.20 10:10:00 -
[4630]
Originally by: kan han
You are welcome to join me in this user-based EVE-Boycott.
Sorry. No dice. Emorage over actions against parasitic behaviour is so much Seinfeld 2005. It was fun the first time, but the 99th rerun is just a tad on the boring, repetitive side.
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Elantia
Gallente Crowded Igloo
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Posted - 2008.10.20 10:30:00 -
[4631]
Must say I'm very suprised by this move.
I canceled my accounts for the first time 2 months back. I've been playing eve for over 3 years now and have stuck with CCP through scandal after scandal (anyone remember the whole BOB and T20 saga??).
My 4 accounts were really simple. 1. Main 2. Freighter alt 3. Mining alt 4. PVP alt
All 4 were on 1 year subs, I only "ghost trained" my mining alt as it took 2 months before she could outmine me. I've always seen the "need a break from eve? suspend account" option in my account settings but never used it on a sub. I clicked the option in August only to find out that I couldn't "suspend" my account, I could only cancel it's recurring debit. So I still have till end of Feb on all my accounts before they actually go into stasis.
I got tired of the BS CCP was feeding us... going from a really awesome company years back to sweeping scandals under the rug to downright lying to us. I stuck it out all the way, but after needing to deal with support on game related issues like POS issues and sometimes waiting a week before getting a stupid "sorry for the delay, has your problem been resolved or do you require further assistance?" reply and then waiting a week more for another reply I just couldn't take it anymore. I canceled my subs and named "poor customer service" as my reason for leaving though there were a number of reasons (double billing on your cc's anyone??? Do you know how it feels when you get deducted for 8 years of game time instead of 4 all at once?)
I figured I'd leave the game for a few months, see if things picked up and if CCP could maybe come back down to earth. In the meatime I'd train long skills and take 1 month subs every 2 months to keep my skills going. Was I doing something wrong? I don't think so, I was willing to pay for a months worth of game time even though I wasn't going to play, all I asked in return was to be able to keep training on alternative months without my subs. I figured, hey, 50% payments per month is very fair for changing skills and I'm still supporting the game.
Personally I feel really let down, I spent over 3 years really actively in the game, building up my fortunes and helping others build themselves up. I always knew that if I needed to take a break, I'd be ok, since I could keep training and stay up to date.
CCP talks of "ghost training" as snow flakes, 1 is ok, but when an avalanche hits you, you'll feel it. What they're refering to is the en masse withrdrawal from eve of some of the older chars like myself. It's actually so severe that I (and my brother who also canceled 3 accounts) received mails saying that CCP has contracted an outside company to do a survey into why so many players are leaving. This is the truth of the matter people. CCP is hitting back at the masses who left saying, "fine, if you don't like the way we run our company, we'll show you a thing, we're taking away your ability to train".
The reason you're not seeing the numbers drop isn't that ppl aren't leaving, it's laying steady cause of the influx of new people. Soon things are going to change, it took a long time for eve's numbers to show such a positive growth as it did in the last 18 months but the simple fact that the numbers are not climbing anymore clearly shows that something is amiss and if it doesn't change soon, I really see poor tidings for CCP. With so many older players leaving and noobs filling the ranks, things will eventually get out of balance in all aspects of EVE.
People really need to start realising whats happening and start showing their discontent with their feet. I just don't understand how CCP can be this bold so close to the release of Jumpgate Evolution. P.S. No trees were hurt during the production of this message, however, a large number of electrons were temporarily disrupted |
Oli Robbo
Gallente Galactic Defence Syndicate Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2008.10.20 10:47:00 -
[4632]
So i now need to pay for a subscription while i'm away at university, just to train a skill so i don't get left behind? Perhaps I am part of your 'surge'..
CCP please explain to me how this is 'balancing the game'. More like Daylight robbery. What incentive does this provide for people like me who can't commit 24/7 to EVE? none. fact.
I also like the way that you provided the option for no prior debate before announcing that you were going to do this, You have already organised a date and everything.
FOR F*CKS SAKE SORT OUT THE ISK FARMERS if you're going to mess about, that's an 'unbalance' if any.
Well, you will be loosing an account from me also, as I can't afford to keep my alt going and it's pointless training for a JF now.
and also, first few posts ftw... the player guide says it all.
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IR Scoutar
Caldari State War Academy
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Posted - 2008.10.20 10:50:00 -
[4633]
Originally by: Duskadantor
Well.. at least I'll try to believe this.
i cant anymore ccp has screwed it up big time one too many times.... not even a bloddy apology! (that dribble from torfi on page 93 may sound like an apology at first but its just another insult tbh)
its like some guys at ccp had a fking great idea once upon a time and called it eve online made a mediocre implementation and then tryd to screw it up as big as they can while retaining some users
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Jaben Thore
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Posted - 2008.10.20 10:53:00 -
[4634]
Could someone help me out on this...
I'm a new player. What's fun about having more than one account?
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Oli Robbo
Gallente Galactic Defence Syndicate Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2008.10.20 10:53:00 -
[4635]
OH MY GOD, IT JUST HIT ME.. Didn't I read somewhere that Iceland went Bankrupt?
/me tries to find recent newspapers....
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Una D
Ex Coelis The Bantam Menace
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Posted - 2008.10.20 11:00:00 -
[4636]
Originally by: Jaben Thore Could someone help me out on this...
I'm a new player. What's fun about having more than one account?
You pay more to CCP and than they can lie to you even more than before. It's great, almost like real life :)
Also since the skills train in real time it takes extremely long time to get certain things (capitals are 1 year of dedicated training to just fly) than it kinda pays of to have several accounts so you can do things in parallel.
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Erim Solfara
Amarr House of Solfara
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Posted - 2008.10.20 11:04:00 -
[4637]
Edited by: Erim Solfara on 20/10/2008 11:04:12 This is ****ing absurd, if you want to make a massive decision like this, i.e. changing a 'bug' that had become a ****ing SELLING POINT of the game, then you need to give massive notice, and PROVIDE SOME STATISTICS.
Quote:
# CCP noticed a surge in the trend and decided to fix the leak
PROOF OR IT DIDN'T HAPPEN.
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Gershomea Raphael
PURE Legion Pure.
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Posted - 2008.10.20 11:04:00 -
[4638]
Well, I'm another voice to this threadnaught. One of my accounts has already expired, and as of next week my main's account will expire. I'm not renewing. My stuff has been contracted to my corp for safekeeping if I should ever decide to come back, so don't ask if you can have it.
So, good luck CCP, you'll need it, because you just seriously ****ed yourselves over.
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Oli Robbo
Gallente Galactic Defence Syndicate Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2008.10.20 11:05:00 -
[4639]
Originally by: CCP t0rfifrans The bug that became a feature
On Monday, we released news that we are disabling äGhost Trainingô, the ability to train characters on inactive accounts. This resulted in strong reactions from the community as many people were routinely making use of it. We explained the matter in more detail and pointed out that this had been a bug in the original game code. Those of us who were involved in the process of making the decision and communicating it to the community did not realize this bug had been so accepted as a feature that it was listed as such in our own documentation on our own website.
How can we not know whatæs in our own documentation? Well, to be frank, it was a case of insufficient communication on our part between various teams û a regrettable mistake and hard lesson to learn at the expense of the trust youæve placed in us. Thereæs no way to spin it and we wonæt add insult to injury by trying to do so. It was a mistake on our part and for that we sincerely and humbly apologize.
Many would hope that in light of this we will decide not to cancel ghost training and keep it active as an option but weære cannot to do that. EVE is already one-of-a-kind in allowing players to progress their characters through offline skill training. We stand by our policy that if you want your character to progress in EVE, you should pay the subscription fee. The fact that so many people have been able to do so for several years was our own oversight. We know this change, and our misstep in telling you about it, has created some discontent and we hope that over time we can prove our committment to make EVE better than ever for you will be evident as you enjoy the fruits of our labor.
Torfi
First Paragraph = /CCP Torfi digs his own grave. Second Paragraph = /CCP all over. [Fail]
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Little TeddyBear
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Posted - 2008.10.20 11:06:00 -
[4640]
Originally by: Jaben Thore Could someone help me out on this...
I'm a new player. What's fun about having more than one account?
EVE is (read: Used to be) a fun game. It is (read: Used to be) highly addictive. Anyone serious about EVE ends up having multiple accounts. I have 2 pc's with dual monitors, used to mine and haul on my second pc while pew pew and other primary stuff on my main pc.
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Jaben Thore
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Posted - 2008.10.20 11:07:00 -
[4641]
But i thought the fun came from working towards a goal, not the speed at which you achieve the end result?
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Elantia
Gallente Crowded Igloo
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Posted - 2008.10.20 11:13:00 -
[4642]
Originally by: Jaben Thore But i thought the fun came from working towards a goal, not the speed at which you achieve the end result?
EVE is a "Massively MULTIPLAYER online game"... multiplayer can mean you with team mates or you as a team on your own. Having your own team is tons of fun... it's like your own version of Homeworld inside EVE
/me goes to look for Homeworld 2 and X3 now since EVE will be no more
My new sig:
Hi, my name is Elantia and I never knew I was an EVE addict until CCP destroyed my game with bugs, useless support staff, scandals, lies and treating me like a 16 yr old. |
Depopulo
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Posted - 2008.10.20 11:14:00 -
[4643]
Edited by: Depopulo on 20/10/2008 11:14:49 Okay..so basically everybody is ****ed off and quitting EVE because after 5 years you can no longer use CCP's resources for free??
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Jinx Barker
GFB Scientific
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Posted - 2008.10.20 11:22:00 -
[4644]
Originally by: Oli Robbo
Originally by: CCP t0rfifrans The bug that became a feature
On Monday, we released news that we are disabling äGhost Trainingô, the ability to train characters on inactive accounts. This resulted in strong reactions from the community as many people were routinely making use of it. We explained the matter in more detail and pointed out that this had been a bug in the original game code. Those of us who were involved in the process of making the decision and communicating it to the community did not realize this bug had been so accepted as a feature that it was listed as such in our own documentation on our own website.
How can we not know whatæs in our own documentation? Well, to be frank, it was a case of insufficient communication on our part between various teams û a regrettable mistake and hard lesson to learn at the expense of the trust youæve placed in us. Thereæs no way to spin it and we wonæt add insult to injury by trying to do so. It was a mistake on our part and for that we sincerely and humbly apologize.
Many would hope that in light of this we will decide not to cancel ghost training and keep it active as an option but weære cannot to do that. EVE is already one-of-a-kind in allowing players to progress their characters through offline skill training. We stand by our policy that if you want your character to progress in EVE, you should pay the subscription fee. The fact that so many people have been able to do so for several years was our own oversight. We know this change, and our misstep in telling you about it, has created some discontent and we hope that over time we can prove our committment to make EVE better than ever for you will be evident as you enjoy the fruits of our labor.
Torfi
First Paragraph = /CCP Torfi digs his own grave. Second Paragraph = /CCP all over. [Fail]
Edit;- And why isn't this thread posted on the main forum? If anyone's account is still active and they're ingame, start up a chat channel or post in help chat to spread the word about this since ccp are obviously trying to sneak it in.
You are right, that post by Torfi is like some beautiful piece of bull-shit, the more I read it the more ridiculous it sounds. At least do not lie to the community, admit that it was a business decision, and go hide in a corner like T20 for about 6 months, and we will forget about it.
Seriously, Torfi, and Fallout, unless you guys have NEVER PLAYED EVE before being hired by CCP two weeks prior to this announcement, and you have never, ever, been part of this game before - the explanations are so transparent that most of us have to laugh and giggle like crazy at the ridiculousness of it.
Don't bullshit the community, tell the truth, you wanted money, and ask for forgiveness. Code and Database issues my ass.
Tell the truth.
::::Click The Signature For the Blog::::
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Little TeddyBear
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Posted - 2008.10.20 11:27:00 -
[4645]
Originally by: Depopulo Edited by: Depopulo on 20/10/2008 11:14:49 Okay..so basically everybody is ****ed off and quitting EVE because after 5 years you can no longer use CCP's resources for free??
Umm, no, people (or shall I say the real hardcore ones) are leaving EVE because they're getting tired of the way they're being treated. Anyone who's been in EVE for 2 years or more has been around long enough to see what's really going on behind the scenes.
It's not ONE issue people are having, it's the culmanation of MULTIPLE issues. Everyone has a threshold, some stick it out longer than others but eventually if you force someone to put up with your crap for too long, they're gonna break up with you. Relationships 101...
Hardcore EVE players are passionate about their game, they've nurtured it from small beginings and put a lot of time into it. EVE has always been there for them, through breakups, divorces and in my case the loss of a loved one to the grave. When something so close to you, that means so much to you is suddenly mangled and twisted it really hits home and it really hits hard. CCP doesn't realise what EVE means to some people. It is the ultimate virtual reality and in some cases, it actually becomes the reality and RL becomes the virtual.
Subs = Canceled, bu bi EVE, we'll trully miss you, thanks for everything you meant to us
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Durzel
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.10.20 11:30:00 -
[4646]
Edited by: Durzel on 20/10/2008 11:31:37
Originally by: Depopulo Edited by: Depopulo on 20/10/2008 11:18:13 Okay..so basically everybody is ****ed off and quitting EVE because after 5 years you can no longer use CCP's resources for free?? Albeit..the way they suddenly announced it could of been handled much better....
What part of CCPs resources are you using exactly by not logging into the game? A few lines in a database? People ghost-training are essentially not paying for a trivial amount of database storage of their character and that's it. And guess what - CCP doesn't delete characters even when you let your account expire so what's the difference? You're actually using more of CCPs resources by logging into the game (bandwidth, customer support, etc)
Essentially CCP are now charging customers for the passage of time because it certainly isn't a charge based on resources being used for free.
I can see this backfiring really - they will get some more funds from people like myself who only have one account (and only intend to have one account) but who used ghost-training from time to time, but others with multiple accounts will have to think long and hard about whether they want to maintain them with cold hard cash. I suspect most will let them lapse, so whereas CCP would've been getting some money periodically, for those accounts now they'll get none at all.
As others have remarked the weak excuses are the worst part of this - there is literally no excuse for this change other than chasing for more money, and to claim that it was all a bug (a bug that's been around 5 years?) and never intended when it was in the online documentation and even commented upon by CCP staff is frankly insulting.
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Jaben Thore
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Posted - 2008.10.20 11:45:00 -
[4647]
Mr Barker, as i'm new, could you please help me out on the main point you made..
If CCP wanted more money, wouldn't it be more profitable for them to keep ghost training in? As you (and many others) have highlighted before, many of the alt accounts, along with a significant proportion of the main accounts, will be deleted as a result of this controversial bug fix. Surely this will result in an overall loss of revenue for CCP?
As CCP have presided over a successful MMO business for quite some time now, i'd be surprised if they hadn't taken this in to consideration before hand. Perhaps their reasoning is based on a fundamental belief that the current ghost training set up goes against the interests of the average player and a sense of fair play. *shrugs*
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Tivookzz
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Posted - 2008.10.20 11:46:00 -
[4648]
I've thought about it and to be honest, mess after mess after lie after lie after lie the relationship between CCP and their customers have started to look like an old marriage that wasn't meant to be and the only solution is a divorce.
I hope many players actually cancel their accounts like I did because it is the only solution if you want change, because whining wont change anything.
We wined about T20, nothing happened.
We whined about warp to zero, nothing happened.
You must hit them where it hurts the most: their economy.
Tiv
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Halleck Gurney
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Posted - 2008.10.20 11:48:00 -
[4649]
Originally by: Jaben Thore But i thought the fun came from working towards a goal, not the speed at which you achieve the end result?
Well, fact of the matter is : There is no end result, only an endless grind ... and working towards a goal seems to get blurred in time. Whenever you set out a goal, it will be a matter of time before that goal disappears because of the almighty game balance.
I have wasted way too much time in training skills that get ultimately reduced to junk.
Ghost training was the only thing that kept my options open while hoping for a better future. Seems that door is closed now.
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Elantia
Gallente Crowded Igloo
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Posted - 2008.10.20 12:16:00 -
[4650]
Edited by: Elantia on 20/10/2008 12:24:14 Just finished speaking to a friend of mine, he asked me if I knew anything about this "Ghost training business" so I showed him the threads. He was also concidering canceling his 2 accounts and wanted to hear from me what I was going to do before he made up his mind. He's been around since beta, that's one of the first accounts ever created on the server. It's a real shame to see someone like that go CCP. There's a saying, "It's easier to keep a customer than to make a new one" and a loyal customer with multiple accounts should really be looked after.
Funny thing though, we both have EON subs, you know, the 1 year ones, the ones that LOYAL customers have. Guess that's 2 EON subs less for xmas CCP. Read about the new board game in EON a few days ago. Got really excited about it since it's a whole new spin on things and I figured my son would love it as he's getting to that stage now. Couldn't wait to see the preorder sign in the near future, guess I'll have to find something else now. See where this is going?
oh wait, of course you don't, you're CCP
My new sig:
Hi, my name is Elantia and I never knew I was an EVE addict until CCP destroyed my game with bugs, useless support staff, scandals, lies and treating me like a 16 yr old. |
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Jaben Thore
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Posted - 2008.10.20 12:54:00 -
[4651]
Originally by: Halleck Gurney
Originally by: Jaben Thore But i thought the fun came from working towards a goal, not the speed at which you achieve the end result?
Well, fact of the matter is : There is no end result, only an endless grind ... and working towards a goal seems to get blurred in time. Whenever you set out a goal, it will be a matter of time before that goal disappears because of the almighty game balance.
I have wasted way too much time in training skills that get ultimately reduced to junk.
Ghost training was the only thing that kept my options open while hoping for a better future. Seems that door is closed now.
Seems to me that if you view one of the fundamental game mechanics as being a waste of time, it's the not the game that has changed, but you. Perhaps you've simply grown tired of the game, and it's time for you to move on?
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mastergsann
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Posted - 2008.10.20 13:07:00 -
[4652]
This is pathetic, i have my skill training plan fitted around the so called ghost training, while one of my alts would be training for lv5 heavy drones i would be on my other character doing my stuff but now i MUST keep them both active all year to make progress, I DONT THINK SO, i actually dont mind this because its pushing me closer and closer to quitting, ive given up on my alt now cus i cant afford it and i will stick to 1 account, the way things are going all i need is an alternative and im gone.
im just an average subscriber who thought this ghost training made perfect sense, to reap the benefits you must re-subscribe so i dont see the issue.
well its about the $$$, this is what happens when shareholders call the shots, i actually hope CCP suffer serious losses for this
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Splash Whale
Ctrl-Q Inc.
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Posted - 2008.10.20 13:24:00 -
[4653]
Edited by: Splash Whale on 20/10/2008 13:25:38 Look at all those poor people cancelling their accounts.
If you cant afford multiple accounts dont get them, and if you can afford it dont whine about this so called "price increase". Use your accounts and dont just have them for SP whoring and e-peen enlargement.
Quit crying already people. half of you that whined about it here wont even be hit by these changes. ----
When in doubt, Ctrl-Q. |
Talsha Talamar
Amarr Nebula Rasa Holdings Nebula Rasa
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Posted - 2008.10.20 13:40:00 -
[4654]
Originally by: CCP t0rfifrans EVE is already one-of-a-kind in allowing players to progress their characters through offline skill training.
Now this paragraph actually makes me wonder if you have any idea of how your game relates to other products at all. Given your position at CCP and your history with that company you most certainly should have enough insight to know that:
Eve is the only game where the training of skills allowing a character to meaningful and enjoyable participate in the "end game" mechanics, literally takes years and several hundred dollars of investment.
Its pointless to argue that in other games people have to raid for months to acquire equipment after leveling up. The grind for cash to afford ships, fits and skills makes pretty much up for this in Eve.
Eve allows only one character to be trained per account. In eve there is no way to improve ones character but waiting, hard real life time. Eve forces a player with a single account to experience long phases of terrible boredom and mindless cash grinding. It takes many month of training build up the skills required to enjoy a wider variety of playstiles, without automatically flushing the ships and fits down the toilet due to the lack of skill ranks. Other games while lacking the complexity and level of eve, allow one to have several different gaming experiences available and change between them freely, experiencing character progress undelayed and directly caused by their actions.
Originally by: CCP t0rfifrans
..The fact that so many people have been able to do so for several years was our own oversight.
Its irrelevant if it was an oversight, intended or a case of severe schizophrenia. Having this feature in game for the course of 5 years, formed the reality of eve irrevocably:
The availablity of alts that actually did only cost 50% of a normal account to train, enabled players to raise very specialized characters. As a result many of the major corporations and alliances require a minium of more than 6 million SP often more than a dozen million SP. Alts are required for older players to create a base of passive income enabling their pvp habits. The removal of ghost training made it just 50% more difficult and costly in terms of rl money to build that base.
The skill training on inactive accounts was a feature that was based on CCPs miscommunications over the course of 5 years, taken as granted for the playerbase with regards to their long term planning of secondary characters and accounts. It was used by players to make decisions about how to allocate their rl financial resources available for online gaming. Now with just one stroke and no forewarning ever and at all, those plans became partially voided and a good share share of already invested money and efforts lost.
Moreover this feature certainly was not ignored but had influences on past game design decisions, on the skill training time for newly introduced skills, the prerequisites for new ships, aso.
If it had not had that effect then I have to start to question CCPs professionalism.
Originally by: CCP t0rfifrans
It was a mistake on our part and for that we sincerely and humbly apologize.
Thank you, the issue yet remains.
What we see here might be simply CCP in a spiral driven by failed expectations and global economical situation. Despite the heavy advertising flanking the rolling out of "Empyrean Age", the average number of characters online seems at the best unchanged. Ending ghost training, might have simply been a point on a contingency plan for times of dire need.
Yes Eve was always hardcore and it is part of its charm, yet there is a thin red line between enjoyable hardcore and just outright intolerable pain. Gametimecards, implicitly raised subscription rates and the removal of a game feature taken and communicated as granted might in its sum very well tip that balance.
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Georn
VIRTUAL LIFE VANGUARD Intrepid Crossing
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Posted - 2008.10.20 13:45:00 -
[4655]
2 Ideas
1. Shouldn't the CSM get active on this?
2. Introduce a new learning skill "Ghosttraining" prereq are all advanced learning skills at 5 and each lvl of Ghosttraining let's you train for one additional week after your account was suspended.. what do you think? (c; ____________ even Carebears have teeth |
Gunnanmon
Gallente UNITED STAR SYNDICATE R-I-P
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Posted - 2008.10.20 14:17:00 -
[4656]
Edited by: Gunnanmon on 20/10/2008 14:19:36
Originally by: Jaben Thore Mr Barker, as i'm new, could you please help me out on the main point you made..
If CCP wanted more money, wouldn't it be more profitable for them to keep ghost training in? As you (and many others) have highlighted before, many of the alt accounts, along with a significant proportion of the main accounts, will be deleted as a result of this controversial bug fix. Surely this will result in an overall loss of revenue for CCP?
As CCP have presided over a successful MMO business for quite some time now, i'd be surprised if they hadn't taken this in to consideration before hand. Perhaps their reasoning is based on a fundamental belief that the current ghost training set up goes against the interests of the average player and a sense of fair play. *shrugs*
I'd be surprised if this came into effect, and shocked, too. With the eradication of ghost training alts, they now become inactive accounts. Surely that's the same as someone that's just taking a break. Imagine their...erm...displeasure if they wanted to come back and found their accounts deleted.
I am of the persuasion that a part-paid for account is better thhn no account. I will be combining a lot of my accounts. So the partial revenue they get from them will be gone.
Do CCP really think that people will succumb and keep all their accounts active at all times? lol
EDIT - and this advantage ghost trainers get over others...rofl. If that's the case, why doesn't everyone just get ghost training alts. Admittedly that costs either cash or ISK. Some people don't have either spare, granted. That means that people able to buy GTCs and sell for isk are at an advantage over the rest. So ban GTC sales for isk, in the interest of fairness, ofc.
The hidden ghost training eradication reply thread |
Richard Aiel
Caldari Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2008.10.20 14:20:00 -
[4657]
Edited by: Richard Aiel on 20/10/2008 14:21:30
Originally by: Erim Solfara Edited by: Erim Solfara on 20/10/2008 11:04:12 This is ****ing absurd, if you want to make a massive decision like this, i.e. changing a 'bug' that had become a ****ing SELLING POINT of the game, then you need to give massive notice, and PROVIDE SOME STATISTICS.
Quote:
# CCP noticed a surge in the trend and decided to fix the leak
PROOF OR IT DIDN'T HAPPEN.
look at my sig at the coldfront part... when this was announced, that day there was no active peak. Just a gradual slide. ------------------------------------------------ CCP you are your own worst enemy. http://eve.coldfront.net/status/tranquility look at that |
Richard Aiel
Caldari Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2008.10.20 14:21:00 -
[4658]
Edited by: Richard Aiel on 20/10/2008 14:24:44
Originally by: Georn
1. Shouldn't the CSM get active on this?
AH AH HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!! HAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Thats the funniest thing ive heard all day so far ------------------------------------------------ CCP you are your own worst enemy. http://eve.coldfront.net/status/tranquility look at that |
nea ion
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Posted - 2008.10.20 14:24:00 -
[4659]
Originally by: Georn
1. Shouldn't the CSM get active on this?
who is CSM?
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Richard Aiel
Caldari Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2008.10.20 14:27:00 -
[4660]
Edited by: Richard Aiel on 20/10/2008 14:27:27
Originally by: nea ion
Originally by: Georn
1. Shouldn't the CSM get active on this?
who is CSM?
Quote:
Council of Stellar Management
In part due to the matters above (T20 and other matters), CCP invited users to stand for the first CSM in March 2008, resulting in 66 candidates seeking election to nine positions.[66][67][68] It was a requirement that candidates released their full 'real' names in addition to stating their in-game details.[69] In May, after a two-week voting period, the first Council was elected, comprising seven men and two women; three each from the Netherlands and the United Kingdom, two from the USA and one from Denmark, their ages ranging from 17 to 52.[68]
The remit of the Council has been changed since it was first proposed and is now seen by CCP primarily as a route for players to make requests for changes and improvements to the game mechanics, presentation, and game content of Eve Online. Each Council will serve for six months after which a new one will be elected.[67] Each individual may only serve twice. Each CSM will get the authority to put requests to CCP three times during their term of office which CCP have stated must be answered; once in person in Iceland and twice by e-mail, with most of the costs of their visit to Iceland being borne by CCP.[67]
The first meeting of the CSM with CCP took place in Reykjavik between June 19 and 23, 2008 and included not only the nine CSM members but a number of developers, designers, GMs and producers from CCP and members of print and video media[70] Matters discussed by players on the Eve forums were reviewed in detail and whilst some were rejected for technical reasons many were accepted by CCP as useful improvements to the game which would be introduced either in an early so-called point release or added to the development plans for a future major update.
Nominations for the second CSM opened on September 26, 2008. The following third Council of Stellar Management will see a modified age restriction in effect: candidates under the age of 21 are then no longer eligible as CSM members.
They were organized as an oversight committe. Now, they impliment suggestions. its a bad joke ------------------------------------------------ CCP you are your own worst enemy. http://eve.coldfront.net/status/tranquility look at that |
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Di Katana
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Posted - 2008.10.20 14:46:00 -
[4661]
My son and I play eve together. It's something we can do together that he thoroughly enjoys and it gives us time together. When the annual xmas wishlist came up at home, he asked if it was possible for him to get a few of the battleship models. They're 125 USD at the eve store, so not at all cheap. He's currently in the 11th grade in school and does really well, but when it's exam time he doesn't play eve at all. During that time we both let our chars go into stasis and do the "ghost training" thing. I don't play so that it's fair to him and so that he doesn't get tempted. He's been talking about the models non stop for over a month now and my wife and I decided to get him the faction ship set (500 US). Imagine my surprise when my 17 year old son came to me just now after I got home from work and asked me if it was ok if he didn't get the models anymore since he's not going to play eve anymore. When I asked him what happened he showed me this thread. I told him it wasn't the end of the world if we had to keep the subs active when he was studying, his reply was "Quote: I don't see why I should pay a bunch of money grabing leeches with no scruples when I'm not even playing the game. EVE was unique, that's why I joined. I always knew that when I had to study I'd still be able to train since there's no way to speed up training again when I rejoined. It's not like I can go grind away and make up the lost sp through ratting"
If a 17 year old can see that what you're doing is just ******ed... wtf is wrong with you?
4 EVE accounts.... Canceled 1 EON Sub.... Canceled 1 Faction BS Set... Canceled 1 Future Boardgame sale... Canceled
You want to talk about loosing money cause you're allowing ghost training? Why don't you just ask yourself how many thousands of dollars you just lost!
How many accounts have you just lost in the last 12 hours?
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Jaben Thore
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Posted - 2008.10.20 14:46:00 -
[4662]
Originally by: Gunnanmon That means that people able to buy GTCs and sell for isk are at an advantage over the rest. So ban GTC sales for isk, in the interest of fairness, ofc.
Absolutely! What a great recommendation Gunnanmon, and one that i support whole heartedly.
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Una D
Ex Coelis The Bantam Menace
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Posted - 2008.10.20 14:59:00 -
[4663]
Originally by: Jaben Thore Mr Barker, as i'm new, could you please help me out on the main point you made..
If CCP wanted more money, wouldn't it be more profitable for them to keep ghost training in? As you (and many others) have highlighted before, many of the alt accounts, along with a significant proportion of the main accounts, will be deleted as a result of this controversial bug fix. Surely this will result in an overall loss of revenue for CCP?
As CCP have presided over a successful MMO business for quite some time now, i'd be surprised if they hadn't taken this in to consideration before hand. Perhaps their reasoning is based on a fundamental belief that the current ghost training set up goes against the interests of the average player and a sense of fair play. *shrugs*
You are basing your thinking around the premise that CCP is smart and thinks about the long run. This is clearly not the case. It has been taken over by economists whos horisont is next quarterly report. Nothing else matters. That is the problem. EVE is tiny MMO as they go and ****ing of your customer base is something that is going to impact you a lot more than blizzard with wow.
On the other hand I guess it's normal that bloodsuckers (well money suckers) take over and run the company in to the ground due to their greed.
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Sean Mcarthur
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Posted - 2008.10.20 15:03:00 -
[4664]
Originally by: Richard Aiel Edited by: Richard Aiel on 20/10/2008 14:24:44
Originally by: Georn
1. Shouldn't the CSM get active on this?
AH AH HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!! HAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Thats the funniest thing ive heard all day so far
actualy isn't there a new election comming up? this is the perfect chance to test ccp, if one of the candidates says: my only task is to tell how many players hate your decision and want it fixed. then lets vote for her/him and then ccp can see how big a player base they are fooling with. Give it a try before whining about them not listening. Might even make the chairman and if they mess with that, they undermine them self even more as CSM was their responce to T20 incident. So the candidate that has ONLY this agande in their book will get my vote
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Thago Avori
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Posted - 2008.10.20 15:20:00 -
[4665]
Originally by: Splash Whale If you cant afford multiple accounts dont get them, and if you can afford it dont whine about this so called "price increase". Use your accounts and dont just have them for SP whoring and e-peen enlargement.
Can someone write up a FAQ and post it somewhere externally so it can get indexed by google?
It would be great to capture the points on both sides (especially those that keep getting repeated like the quote above) along with dates, and maybe some of the choice quotes.
(posted by an alt who is cancelled due to this change)
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IR Scoutar
Caldari State War Academy
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Posted - 2008.10.20 15:42:00 -
[4666]
Originally by: Jaben Thore
Originally by: Halleck Gurney
Originally by: Jaben Thore But i thought the fun came from working towards a goal, not the speed at which you achieve the end result?
Well, fact of the matter is : There is no end result, only an endless grind ... and working towards a goal seems to get blurred in time. Whenever you set out a goal, it will be a matter of time before that goal disappears because of the almighty game balance.
I have wasted way too much time in training skills that get ultimately reduced to junk.
Ghost training was the only thing that kept my options open while hoping for a better future. Seems that door is closed now.
Seems to me that if you view one of the fundamental game mechanics as being a waste of time, it's the not the game that has changed, but you. Perhaps you've simply grown tired of the game, and it's time for you to move on?
ahh you see this was a major lets call it selling point if we can call the continued training ghost training people grow tired of stuff all the time and its a game not a job ... so send it into stasis go do something else and then after some time you just felt eve calling and then you thought hey didnt i set *insert retadedly long prequisit shkill for some nice ship* ? yeah i did well lets go check it out :D thus starting a new cycle
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supr3m3justic3
Caldari Hakata Group Blade.
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Posted - 2008.10.20 16:06:00 -
[4667]
I dont think they are listing to us.
VIVA LA RESISTANCE ____
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Richard Aiel
Caldari Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2008.10.20 16:26:00 -
[4668]
Originally by: Sean Mcarthur
Originally by: Richard Aiel Edited by: Richard Aiel on 20/10/2008 14:24:44
Originally by: Georn
1. Shouldn't the CSM get active on this?
AH AH HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!! HAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Thats the funniest thing ive heard all day so far
actualy isn't there a new election comming up? this is the perfect chance to test ccp, if one of the candidates says: my only task is to tell how many players hate your decision and want it fixed. then lets vote for her/him and then ccp can see how big a player base they are fooling with. Give it a try before whining about them not listening. Might even make the chairman and if they mess with that, they undermine them self even more as CSM was their responce to T20 incident. So the candidate that has ONLY this agande in their book will get my vote
Yea but CSM doesnt have any pull or authority. The whole player base could be on the verge of hitting the I quit button and the csm goes to ccp, ccp will still tell them to **** themselves cause theyre like that, and the csm wont be able to do shit cause theyre just vacationing figureheads. I could care less if any of the csm take this as their platform to get votes with cause once theyre elected its not like they will or can do anything about it. ------------------------------------------------ CCP you are your own worst enemy. http://eve.coldfront.net/status/tranquility look at that |
Richard Aiel
Caldari Caldari Provisions
|
Posted - 2008.10.20 16:27:00 -
[4669]
Originally by: supr3m3justic3 I dont think they are listing to us.
VIVA LA RESISTANCE
Do THEY ever? ------------------------------------------------ CCP you are your own worst enemy. http://eve.coldfront.net/status/tranquility look at that |
Brother Welcome
Amarr Suddenly Ninjas Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
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Posted - 2008.10.20 16:32:00 -
[4670]
Originally by: Sean Mcarthur hey this treadnought is slowing down, please don't, we need to complain about this "bug".
Surely four or five thousand posts is enough to raise an issue?!
CSM is taking it to CCP on our behalf. What more can we do, and for that matter what more should we need to do?
-vk
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Braxiglox Hrrglxbrwimple
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Posted - 2008.10.20 16:39:00 -
[4671]
-3 accounts of nine. Another expires in 2 days, another on Sep 29, two on Nov 5, one on Nov 15, and the last one on Nov 21. CCP ****ed me off royally in late 2006 and as a result I decided never to pay them more than 30 days at a time. I wanted to avoid being in the position of seeing CCP do something breathtakingly stupid and have to watch a 6-month or 1-year sub unroll, unable to cut off their funds.
Realistically I only have to reactivate two of the nine accounts somewhat frequently to keep some corp and alliance business going. I can't predict what my average active account level will be going forward but it will be enough less than the nine it has been recently to significantly reduce the revenue CCP gets from me.
In the past, when I planned to idle an account or two, I tried to find something useful they could continue training. It was always difficult. Not being at the cap ship level there aren't that many long training steps I haven't already trained. Now, though, I don't have to bother trying to figure that out or pre-train something to have a long step ready, and I have far less incentive to reactivate chars that will not be training at all while inactive.
Since Oct 15 the damage done by this insane policy change has been harming people whose accounts have been inactive for whatever reason. Probably quite a few of them won't realize it until they either catch up on the news or, worse, reactivate their chars and see that expected training didn't happen. I can hear "WTF?" echoing all over the Eve landscape.
I think a reduction of 5,000 in the average number of active accounts over the next 60 days would be a very conservative prediction. If so, that will be about $900,000 per year, and richly deserved.
The moment they firmly reverse this decision I will consider activating more of my accounts. There's no way they can undo the damage already done, so I may not activate accounts immediately, but after some delay.
Once more: training is bought and paid for when you click to initiate a training step. The training "time" is only a calendar waiting period. There is no ongoing training process and nothing for free if your account expires. It's a calendar date before which you can't use the skill. That's all it is. It never had anything to do with what you do in the game after initiating training, nothing to do with server uptime... only the out of game calendar. "Training" is just a date/time in your char info after which the skill level becomes usable. Nothing happens along the way unless you are active, you log in, and look at the "training," in which case your Eve client creates the illusion that training is "moving ahead."
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Komillia Jenius
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Posted - 2008.10.20 16:45:00 -
[4672]
I just started and wondered what this Ghost was. Training was long. Seeing how expensive this game is to play, with other MMO's out there, my 14-day trial would probably be it.
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Georn
VIRTUAL LIFE VANGUARD Intrepid Crossing
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Posted - 2008.10.20 17:25:00 -
[4673]
Edited by: Georn on 20/10/2008 17:26:40
Originally by: Brother Welcome
CSM is taking it to CCP on our behalf. What more can we do, and for that matter what more should we need to do?
-vk
They will? Didn't know that yet. Thanks for the heads up ____________ even Carebears have teeth |
Jinx Barker
GFB Scientific
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Posted - 2008.10.20 17:26:00 -
[4674]
Edited by: Jinx Barker on 20/10/2008 17:31:05
Originally by: Jaben Thore ..Some questions from a new guy to Mr. Barker....
Since you are new, I want to explain a few things to you, and other new players:
1) For years CCP has been a flagship company, catering to the most "hard-core" gamers, elite of the elite. CCP itself was created by a bunch of rabid PVPers and pretty disturbed bunch of individuals. And I mean it all in the best way possible.
2) They have made an extremely competitive game, where the players could be compared to packs of rabid dogs fighting for the carcass of the same wildebeest - the territory, and it's resources.
3) The "offline skill training" took into account the unique approach to skilling up one's character, and allowed the skill system to be upgraded exponentially, creating more and more complex skill-sets available, thus taking more and more time. As the complexity of the skill-set has increased, as the complexity and intensity of the game has increased, the burn-out rate of the players increased with it. I can attest to it, since it happened to me number of times over the years. Major one was in the beginning of 2005, when got rid of my 2003 character because EVE has gotten too much for me personally. I subsequently came back later in 2005 with Jinx Barker.
4) So, we were talking about the complexity of the game, and the skill system. Now, since 2005, in particular, more and more players have experienced similar situation to mine - and since that time CCP top echelons, I should say former top echelons, since most of them have been relocated to the "vampire MMO," have always told the "burnouts" to "take a break, and set a long skill" let the account expire, and "come back when you ready to something new!" The so called "Ghost Training" didn't even have a name, it simply WAS. Was a major part of EVE that allowed people to take a break, and come back reinvigorated, and with a new desire to play, and to find new things waiting for them.
5) The now "evil" Ghost Training was a major selling point, and a major part of EVE. It was not available to "only few and elite" it was not available to "only veteran players" - it was a feature which allowed ALL EVE players to have a special relationship with the company itself; because it showed that CCP does understand the complexity of the game, and the need to take regular breaks. At the same time they have also recognized the need to keep the players interested and involved, to have them coming back for more. Because, lets face it, we were the loyal players, we were the few who were there when server began to climb from 3k to 5k, and then to 10k and so forth, we were rewarded for our loyalty with loyalty by the developers. We were family, friends, co-creators of the world.
(See Part 2)
::::Click The Signature For the Blog::::
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Jinx Barker
GFB Scientific
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Posted - 2008.10.20 17:27:00 -
[4675]
Edited by: Jinx Barker on 20/10/2008 17:31:55 (Part 2, of a long ass answer to a newbie)
6) We, the older players, having been involved with EVE for such a long time, know intricacies, or learned intricacies, of what it takes to run a massive database like EVE, we learned many details from Developers - who were very open about the game design - everything we could learn about the game, and all the "possibles" and "impossibles." Basically the players did become, to a degree, experts on EVE.
5) So, when, five years down the line, we have a new developer come to the community of the dedicated and loyal players, and very much educated EVE players, and tells us that the "evil Ghost Training" causes issues with EVE Database, and it was a bug! There is only one response, to laugh, or giggle like complete crazies, and then to get angry - because it is pure and unadulterated HORSE MANURE. It shows that CCP thinks EVE players are complete morons, or it shows that the dev is so blinking new he does not even know how the game works!
6) To then backtrack,and bring issues of balance into it, or "fair play" is just an excuse. What gets my goat is that they have had khutzpa [sic?]/gaul to actually try and sell us this load of shit thinking we would swallow it! It shows disrespect, it shows complete disregard, and utter indifference to ALL the loyal players of this game, new or old. The old guys just had enough sense to call CCP out on this.
7) Further, fiscally, and long term, the move makes even less sense. Since it will only decrease CCP's "partial" revenue as people consolidate to either single or less account[s]. However, short-term financially, the move makes perfect sense, it forces players to a) shell out $20.00 for transfer fee, b) forces those who have not subscribed/cancled to re-subscribe and pay overall higher premium, and finally c) to re-subscribe, in order to retrieve the character[s] + $20.00 transfer fee as they consolidate.
8) Has nothing to do with the Game Balance either, since the feature was open to anyone and everyone, as mentioned above. And even less with the DB costs, and maintenance, since the way skill mechanic works in EVE is this: the DB compares your initial training time, with the actual training time at the DT, and calculates really quickly what you should have SP-wise. It is almost completely passive, just like the character information DB is completely passive while the account is disabled, just a couple of entires in the DB.
9) We have to conclude then, that what CCP is trying to do is grab some cash, and that they have sank so low as to outright lie to the community, hope it will pass, or get unnoticed.
I hope that clarified a few things...
::::Click The Signature For the Blog::::
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Tivookz
Caldari IMPERIAL SENATE Pure.
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Posted - 2008.10.20 17:37:00 -
[4676]
Originally by: supr3m3justic3 I dont think they are listing to us.
VIVA LA RESISTANCE
Patience and persistence.
Removing ghost training was probably the worst move in EVE history.
Increasing monthly cost I can understand even tho it sucked but this? Unforgivable unless revoked.
Tiv
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Waynetta Slob
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Posted - 2008.10.20 17:48:00 -
[4677]
Originally by: Tyrrax Thorrk So uh how exactly is this going to work, will skills stop where they are on wednesday on inactive accounts or get reset back to what they were when account ran out ?.
As far as I can tell, the skill stopped when they hit the button. I had an alt in that exact position, and I reactivated it earlier than I had intended. iirc the skill had progressed, but was stopped when I first logged in.
I have another alt in that position, if I get round to it I'll reactivate tonight, and confirm the situation. Once that GTC is almost up I'll move it to a different account.
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NereSky
Gallente Trinity Nova Trinity Nova Alliance
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Posted - 2008.10.20 18:21:00 -
[4678]
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=896079
Nice to see that GM Applebabes decision to lock the thread has been overturned, 1 small step in many more expected
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Venezia Dawn
Caldari The VD Clinic Violent-Tendencies
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Posted - 2008.10.20 18:24:00 -
[4679]
Originally by: Waynetta Slob
Originally by: Tyrrax Thorrk So uh how exactly is this going to work, will skills stop where they are on wednesday on inactive accounts or get reset back to what they were when account ran out ?.
As far as I can tell, the skill stopped when they hit the button. I had an alt in that exact position, and I reactivated it earlier than I had intended. iirc the skill had progressed, but was stopped when I first logged in.
I have another alt in that position, if I get round to it I'll reactivate tonight, and confirm the situation. Once that GTC is almost up I'll move it to a different account.
The training did not stop immediately after DT on Wednesday the 15th, as I dutifully reactivated my "ghosting" account (while paying actively for 2 other accounts) a few hours after DT and she was still training. |
Gunnanmon
Gallente UNITED STAR SYNDICATE R-I-P
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Posted - 2008.10.20 18:31:00 -
[4680]
1 possible ramification of this act: The price of GTCs goes down.
Reasoning: Currently the supply/demand for/of GTCs seems to be fairly similar, prices are usualyl between 450 and 500m. If people move alts to the same account, their need for GTCs could very well go down. So less people buying them will mean sellers undercutting one another to sell them.
Also, less people might cough up the $35 to buy them if the price goes down too far. Less money for CCP there.
Then again, if the price drops markedly, other people might pick up the slack and start buying them instead of paying RL cash for the game.
Anything's possible.
As an aside; if in 2 or 3 months, once the proverbial's hit the fan, they decide to reverse their decision, and reactivate "ghost-training", that'll be a nice little injection of cash when people move chars onto their own accounts, again.
The hidden ghost training eradication reply thread |
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Vama Mapri
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Posted - 2008.10.20 18:32:00 -
[4681]
Well if this does come into play then it's bye bye EvE after 5 years of playing. I can't always afford to be active ALL the time so this game was great for me. But now it's going there's no point paying to stay ACTIVE all the time when I can't PLAY ALL THE TIME. So it's goodbye from me and goodbye from him.
P.S. You haven't been brought out by SONY have you ? They have a good habit of killing off games by stupid implementations that are not needed or wanted by the player base.....
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Richard Aiel
Caldari Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2008.10.20 18:40:00 -
[4682]
Originally by: Gunnanmon 1 possible ramification of this act: The price of GTCs goes down.
Reasoning: Currently the supply/demand for/of GTCs seems to be fairly similar, prices are usualyl between 450 and 500m. If people move alts to the same account, their need for GTCs could very well go down. So less people buying them will mean sellers undercutting one another to sell them.
Also, less people might cough up the $35 to buy them if the price goes down too far. Less money for CCP there.
Then again, if the price drops markedly, other people might pick up the slack and start buying them instead of paying RL cash for the game.
Anything's possible.
As an aside; if in 2 or 3 months, once the proverbial's hit the fan, they decide to reverse their decision, and reactivate "ghost-training", that'll be a nice little injection of cash when people move chars onto their own accounts, again.
maybe the next "idea" they get is eradicating the ability to buy gtcs with in game cash. Thats another way EVE is different from other mmos, maybe that'll be the next bit on the chop. ------------------------------------------------ CCP you are your own worst enemy. http://eve.coldfront.net/status/tranquility look at that |
Aganola
Amarr Hungarian Riflemen Regiment
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Posted - 2008.10.20 19:12:00 -
[4683]
Just gonna post something... related... :D
IT's been posted here by the OP, but since this thread has grown over 156 pages I really cannot search for it now... :P
The ghost training wall for all your love: http://i38.tinypic.com/1jmhbs.jpg
And for the nerds who are to nerds what nerds are to normal people:
http://i38.tinypic.com/eqq9dx.jpg
Enjoy my love! :D
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Procurator Ultio
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Posted - 2008.10.20 19:22:00 -
[4684]
Originally by: Dhunter BTW, it was never called ôghost trainingö until just now when they decided to nerf it. ThatÆs part of the PR spin. ôGhost trainingö makes it sound mildly sneaky and illegitimate. In the 5+ years IÆve been intensively participating in Eve theyÆve shot themselves in both feet a number of times. Their sleazy PR and spin and playing games with threads has become pretty solid evidence to me that they are corrupt and untrustworthy.
IÆm not at all sure that this faux pas will be the final nail in their coffin, but IÆm not the only one in their Forums to express the opinion that IÆd be willing to see Eve go away if it would be the price of seeing CCP punished by going out of business. Eve, a generally great MMOG, is severly tarnished by CCPÆs low standard of ethics and attitude. The management folks who made this happen should be fired on the spot. Unfortunately, in inbred Iceland, they wonÆt be.
Nice move, bozo, copying my post from another MMOG forum but failing to attribute it.
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Aganola
Amarr Hungarian Riflemen Regiment
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Posted - 2008.10.20 19:27:00 -
[4685]
Originally by: Procurator Ultio
Originally by: Dhunter BTW, it was never called “ghost training” until just now when they decided to nerf it. That’s part of the PR spin. “Ghost training” makes it sound mildly sneaky and illegitimate. In the 5+ years I’ve been intensively participating in Eve they’ve shot themselves in both feet a number of times. Their sleazy PR and spin and playing games with threads has become pretty solid evidence to me that they are corrupt and untrustworthy.
I’m not at all sure that this faux pas will be the final nail in their coffin, but I’m not the only one in their Forums to express the opinion that I’d be willing to see Eve go away if it would be the price of seeing CCP punished by going out of business. Eve, a generally great MMOG, is severly tarnished by CCP’s low standard of ethics and attitude. The management folks who made this happen should be fired on the spot. Unfortunately, in inbred Iceland, they won’t be.
Nice move, bozo, copying my post from another MMOG forum but failing to attribute it.
OMG! "inbred" ...
does this meen they have been doing...
in-cest???
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Affaire DuCommerce
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Posted - 2008.10.20 19:41:00 -
[4686]
Originally by: Aganola
Originally by: Procurator Ultio
Originally by: Dhunter BTW, it was never called ôghost trainingö until just now when they decided to nerf it. ThatÆs part of the PR spin. ôGhost trainingö makes it sound mildly sneaky and illegitimate. In the 5+ years IÆve been intensively participating in Eve theyÆve shot themselves in both feet a number of times. Their sleazy PR and spin and playing games with threads has become pretty solid evidence to me that they are corrupt and untrustworthy.
IÆm not at all sure that this faux pas will be the final nail in their coffin, but IÆm not the only one in their Forums to express the opinion that IÆd be willing to see Eve go away if it would be the price of seeing CCP punished by going out of business. Eve, a generally great MMOG, is severly tarnished by CCPÆs low standard of ethics and attitude. The management folks who made this happen should be fired on the spot. Unfortunately, in inbred Iceland, they wonÆt be.
Nice move, bozo, copying my post from another MMOG forum but failing to attribute it.
OMG! "inbred" ...
does this meen they have been doing...
in-cest???
inbred |= incest |
Aganola
Amarr Hungarian Riflemen Regiment
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Posted - 2008.10.20 19:44:00 -
[4687]
Originally by: Affaire DuCommerce
Originally by: Aganola
Originally by: Procurator Ultio
Originally by: Dhunter BTW, it was never called “ghost training” until just now when they decided to nerf it. That’s part of the PR spin. “Ghost training” makes it sound mildly sneaky and illegitimate. In the 5+ years I’ve been intensively participating in Eve they’ve shot themselves in both feet a number of times. Their sleazy PR and spin and playing games with threads has become pretty solid evidence to me that they are corrupt and untrustworthy.
I’m not at all sure that this faux pas will be the final nail in their coffin, but I’m not the only one in their Forums to express the opinion that I’d be willing to see Eve go away if it would be the price of seeing CCP punished by going out of business. Eve, a generally great MMOG, is severly tarnished by CCP’s low standard of ethics and attitude. The management folks who made this happen should be fired on the spot. Unfortunately, in inbred Iceland, they won’t be.
Nice move, bozo, copying my post from another MMOG forum but failing to attribute it.
OMG! "inbred" ...
does this meen they have been doing...
in-cest???
inbred |= incest
lol thx!
Since english is not my native laguage I mix up words...
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Affaire DuCommerce
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Posted - 2008.10.20 19:53:00 -
[4688]
Originally by: Aganola
Originally by: Affaire DuCommerce
Originally by: Aganola
Originally by: Procurator Ultio
Nice move, bozo, copying my post from another MMOG forum but failing to attribute it.
OMG! "inbred" ...
does this meen they have been doing...
in-cest???
inbred |= incest
lol thx!
Since english is not my native laguage I mix up words...
Inbred
1. naturally inherent; innate; native: her inbred grace. 2. resulting from or involved in inbreeding.
Inbreed
1. To breed by the continued mating of closely related individuals, especially to preserve desirable traits in a stock. 2. To breed or develop within; engender.
Incest
1. Sexual intercourse between closely related persons. 2. The crime of sexual intercourse, cohabitation, or marriage between persons within the degrees of consanguinity or affinity wherein marriage is legally forbidden.
or
1. Sexual relations between persons who are so closely related that their marriage is illegal or forbidden by custom. 2. The statutory crime of sexual relations with such a near relative.
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Norma Cyborg
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Posted - 2008.10.20 19:55:00 -
[4689]
As consequence for your decision CCP I will reduce my 5 accounts down to 3. Means no payements (I paid real money not isk) anymore.
This hopefully will hurt you.
Maybe once you learn to listen to the community
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Procurator Ultio
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Posted - 2008.10.20 20:00:00 -
[4690]
Originally by: CCP t0rfifrans The bug that became a feature
The feature that became redefined as a bug in Orwellian Newspeak.
Originally by: CCP t0rfifrans On Monday, we released news that we are disabling äGhost Trainingô...
Yes, possibly the worst move CCP has made in the history of the game. We also noticed that a name was invented for it that had never, ever been seen before. Spin.
Originally by: CCP t0rfifrans This resulted in strong reactions from the community as many people were routinely making use of it.
And, um, we're supposed to believe you guys didn't know that many people were making use of it?
Originally by: CCP t0rfifrans We explained the matter in more detail and pointed out that this had been a bug in the original game code.
That's just a baldfaced lie.
Originally by: CCP t0rfifrans Those of us...did not realize this bug had been so accepted as a feature
So, um, you have not been paying any attention at all, then, and have not been playing the game yourself? Figures.
Originally by: CCP t0rfifrans that it was listed as such in our own documentation on our own website.
Oh, yeah, Heavens! "Look guys! This bug is actually in our documentation! How did that happen!" BULLSHIT.
Originally by: CCP t0rfifrans How can we not know whatæs in our own documentation? Well, to be frank, it was a case of insufficient communication on our part between various teams û a regrettable mistake and hard lesson to learn at the expense of the trust youæve placed in us.
I call bullshit. There is no trust left.
Originally by: CCP t0rfifrans Thereæs no way to spin it and we wonæt add insult to injury by trying to do so.
You've already tried to spin it. The whole "bug" thing is spin. You guys are so.... low. So... utterly worthless.
Originally by: CCP t0rfifrans It was a mistake on our part and for that we sincerely and humbly apologize.
Y'know, modern business has figured out that spoken and written apologies are dirt cheap. That's why customer service reps often apologize profusely. Your apology is worthless. Your apology is not accepted.
Originally by: CCP t0rfifrans Many would hope that in light of this we will decide not to cancel ghost training and keep it active as an option but weære cannot to do that.
Another baldfaced lie.
Originally by: CCP t0rfifrans EVE is already one-of-a-kind in allowing players to progress their characters through offline skill training. We stand by our policy that if you want your character to progress in EVE, you should pay the subscription fee.
Nonsense. The training step has already been bought and paid for when the subscriber clicks to initiate the training step. All that does is calculate the date/time when it will become usable. The wait is a ****ing calendar wait that has nothing to do with being logged in, the server cluster being up... nothing. It's a wait for an out-of-game calendar date/time. Now you're holding the already-paid training step hostage, not even allowing the calendar wait to remain, instead pulling up the char info and forcing the training step into a "paused" state. **** you.
Originally by: CCP t0rfifrans The fact that so many people have been able to do so for several years was our own oversight.
More spin. I don't believe this for a second.
Originally by: CCP t0rfifrans We know this change, and our misstep in telling you about it, has created some discontent
Discontent? You guys are no doubt sweating right now as you watch your stats. Keep watching. It will be until Nov 21 before all my accounts have run their course and not renewed.
Originally by: CCP t0rfifrans and we hope that over time we can prove our committment to make EVE better than ever...
Stuff it. Keep your hacked up game.
I now actually look forward to news of layoffs at CCP and CCP eventually going out of business. Much as I love Eve, I would give it up forever in a heartbeat as the price to see you *******s punished by going out of business.
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Sean Mcarthur
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Posted - 2008.10.20 20:16:00 -
[4691]
Edited by: Sean Mcarthur on 20/10/2008 20:16:54
Originally by: Brother Welcome
Originally by: Sean Mcarthur hey this treadnought is slowing down, please don't, we need to complain about this "bug".
Surely four or five thousand posts is enough to raise an issue?!
CSM is taking it to CCP on our behalf. What more can we do, and for that matter what more should we need to do?
-vk
please when you quote then use the whole text as the first part was just a pun to point out that, in the days after the "ghost training stop blog", CCP released more info of what they are doing, than thay have for the last 3 months. Just my way of saying: ccp is trying to coverup but lets use it to gain something:-)
Oh one more thing CSM had JUST expired when this news hit and the next is just begining to form up so how can they bring it up? I even posted that we should test and see if ccp REALLY listen to CSM, by voting for a member which sole purpose is to get ghost training back, or some other compensation, for ccp doing a lousy job in dealing with the problem. I say time for skill que as one of the problems before was, that ccp knew that people would use it to train 2 skills while inaktive instead of a single one.
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Braxiglox Hrrglxbrwimple
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Posted - 2008.10.20 20:20:00 -
[4692]
There has been quite a lot of mention of account consolidation likely to result from this appallingly bad decision. Some have stated that they will be consolidating their accounts; others have opined that others will probably be consolidating. At least one has observed that the char transfer fee may cause a momentary upward tick in CCP revenues before the reduced numbers of accounts show a severe reduction in revenues.
I would just like to say that I for one will not be consolidating any of my nine accounts. The only money CCP will get from me will be for 30-day subscriptions as I cycle those accounts and no longer keep them all actively subscribed at the same time.
Nor will I ever sell a char or sell or give away any of my "stuff." Should I decide to leave permanently in one or more chars, I will terminate it. Nor will I allow all my resources to remain in the game. If and when I decide to terminate the last one, all ISK will be spent, all items trashed, then the char terminated to eliminate the temptation to come back.
Will I terminate chars right away? No, certainly not. What I will do immediately (have done, in fact) is to reduce the percentage of them that are active at any one time, reduce the average of my active chars, and reduce the time I spend in Eve. Perhaps in time I will find that I no longer have any interest in Eve, at which time I will begin to terminate chars.
CCP has certainly removed a principal incentive for anyone to reactivate a char that has gone, for whatever reason, into suspension. Worse, though, they have insulted us gravely. On top of CCP's other mistakes and the occasional serious scandal in recent years, the declining improvements, the persistent true bugs, their apparent inability to add anything at all without breaking even more existing things... they have crossed the line and I no longer look forward to growing my chars and doing new things in Eve.
It would be my preference by far to find the CCP people admirable and worthy of praise, but alas, it is not so. I cannot feel good about the company behind the game. I cannot imagine ever going to Fanfest because instead of telling them how great I think they are I'd have to curse them as idiots and incompetents.
So... this is the beginning of the slow goodbye, inevitable unless signs of a sudden rise of sanity and IQ at CCP are soon revealed.
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supr3m3justic3
Caldari Hakata Group Blade.
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Posted - 2008.10.20 20:37:00 -
[4693]
could you have posted a bigger pic on here?? i could barely read it...
____
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Richard Aiel
Caldari Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2008.10.20 20:43:00 -
[4694]
Originally by: Procurator Ultio I now actually look forward to news of layoffs at CCP and CCP eventually going out of business. Much as I love Eve, I would give it up forever in a heartbeat as the price to see you *******s punished by going out of business.
This. I hope they die off before they sully the name of White Wolf with decisions like this one. ------------------------------------------------ CCP you are your own worst enemy. http://eve.coldfront.net/status/tranquility look at that |
Dark Nemesis
Gallente Carnival Of Sins
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Posted - 2008.10.20 20:49:00 -
[4695]
Originally by: Lysander Kaldenn
Only in my dreams... They are too busy spamming the forums. "Oh noes! CCP is actually charging for thier product! No! We got it for free once. Now we have to payz! Noooo! Give us free game now or wez will go play Warhammer!"
Some people seem to be missing the point that it was never "free" as such. You pay, you set off a skill - account gets cancelled after 30 days or so/becomes inactive and the skill continues.
You can't change the skill to anything else, you can't play the game whilst the account is cancelled. You get very little out of the inactive account, save for some real-time training time.
IIRC, since <> 2003, It's always been worded that you are paying for play time, which is not training time and with no way of greatly increasing the training time (implants and learning sink aside) and only one trainable character slot on an account, it's ridiculous to assume people will actively pay for pure training time.
Add to that how pathetic the communication was regarding the reasoning for the change, a "bug" that was always considered a feature by CCP for those facing burnout (mentioned elsewhere in the last couple of pages) - those in charge now seem to be destroying the essence of the game crafted by those before them, as well as insulting our intelligence and faith in their company.
To CCP: May I draw your attention to GOA. The French company that took on the European version of Mythics' Dark Age Of Camelot. So many people became disenchanted with their appalling customer service and PR - many (including myself) refuse to pay for their services again.
Please do think about this, as it may well affect your future portfolio.
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Sandy Minge
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Posted - 2008.10.20 20:53:00 -
[4696]
Edited by: Sandy Minge on 20/10/2008 20:56:17 Edited by: Sandy Minge on 20/10/2008 20:54:29
Originally by: Procurator Ultio
Originally by: CCP t0rfifrans and we hope that over time we can prove our committment to make EVE better than ever...
Stuff it. Keep your hacked up game.
I now actually look forward to news of layoffs at CCP and CCP eventually going out of business. Much as I love Eve, I would give it up forever in a heartbeat as the price to see you *******s punished by going out of business.
Propably the best post on this topic until now - And I've been reading through about 80% of this thread! In fact I haven't been as interested in EvE for a year as during the past few days. Perhaps thats the rotten, morbid smell I am sensing...
I turned from an addict with 6+ hours playtime on 4 accounts to some burned-out nostalgist. The only thing which kept renewing my subscription was the training of long term skills and the occasional rub-it-in to old friends :-P
So if CCP thinks they didn't charge me enough for 2-4 accounts - which I had logged in about 5 hours a month spinning the station cam around fancy ships I never undocked anyways - then be it so. I got my old EvE buddys on MSN anyways - Oh and for the fancy shippys I am just gonna use 3DS Max.
In fact it's not even the monetary aspect, that hurts me - It's the various aspects which Procurator Ultio pointed out so nicely in his post: *The use of Owellian Speak (Hello 1984!), *The spinning, *The baldfaced lies, *The greed, *The kick in the butt by a company, which leeched over $1000 of me for a laggy chat room *The ignorance that they believed they can pull this one off without being noted!
@t0rfifrans: Do yourself a favor and leave the sinking ship while you can! Because no company is gonna hire you, if EvE failboats and the rumour spreads you're responsible for shooting CCPs cashcow into the head!
In the end, this seems to be the Katharsis after which some of us will finally be able to let EvE go...
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Gunnanmon
Gallente UNITED STAR SYNDICATE R-I-P
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Posted - 2008.10.20 21:09:00 -
[4697]
Originally by: Sandy Minge In the end, this seems to be the Katharsis after which some of us will finally be able to let EvE go...
Never a truer word said. I need to leave Eve. I'm addicted, so I could never bring myself to do it.
There's now a turkey standing at my door, and he's shivering. The Ghost-training vote thread |
Gutta Percha
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Posted - 2008.10.20 21:10:00 -
[4698]
It's time to put this "bug" crap to rest once and for all.
As a programmer of 45+ years I can see very clearly that this was never a bug. In fact, it had been the simplest, most elegant implementation of time-based "training" possible:
For the type of training Eve has had, several fields were added to the char info in the database:
Current Skill: [database key of the skill] Completion date/time: [date/time]
Any number of individual skill records subordinate to the char store the ID of each skill and the SP or percentage of "progress." The subordinate record for the current skill tracked in the char info doesn't have to be updated until examined at the next login, and then either set to "completed" or "100%", and then only if the skill step has been "completed."
If a skill is not actively paused, the static completion date/time means that a waiting period is being imposed. The skill step can only be used after the waiting period has expired. In reality, it's not "training" -- it's a wait. And not even a game wait. It's an out-of-game calendar wait.
Note that an entry in the database of a completion date/time requires no work. There is no actual ongoing process of "training." Rather, in the mechanics of the game, the training completion is a foregone conclusion that will be discovered at some future time when the Eve client connects and discovers that the date/time for completion has passed.
Meanwhile, the apparency of ongoing training... the countdown and progress bar in the Char Sheet... are illusions created in the Eve client.
This mechanism for managing training that works by calendar/clock time instead of in-game actions is elegant. It requires no work or effort on the part of the servers. In fact, the server cluster could go up in smoke, a new cluster could be built over the course of days, weeks or a month, and in the end no "training" will have been lost because the "training" is not a process but merely a recorded completion date/time.
Now... an elegant mechanism like this is automatically going to "train" while you are offline and, yes, while you are unsubscribed. Nothing is given away for free. Everything needed has been paid for and done under and active subscription, and only the calendar waiting period must run its course before the skill step can be used. And then only if you actually log in again.
This elegant mechanism was designed this way to minimize the impact of training on the servers. It's beautiful. Anything different would be inelegant and probablly horrible.
So now they have broken that elegant mechanism by the addition of new code... code that forcibly puts a skill into the "paused" state when an account is marked as inactive. This is more work for the servers than before. It is more work for the database than before. It is less elegant, less perfect, and wholly artificial.
CCP is now penalizing us for something that formerly cost them nothing, and in doing so are going to extra effort, going out of their way to set training steps to a paused state. In effect they seek to charge us for a calendar waiting period for a skill we have already paid for and had to be active and online to initiate.
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ZeCamerone
Caldari 20th Legion
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Posted - 2008.10.20 21:28:00 -
[4699]
I gotta say that I was on the verge of cancelling my subscription anyways, I was getting burned out after just 3 months of playing. This little slap in the face will probably warrant a permanent break from EvE.
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Brother Welcome
Amarr Suddenly Ninjas Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
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Posted - 2008.10.20 21:40:00 -
[4700]
Originally by: Sean Mcarthur Edited by: Sean Mcarthur on 20/10/2008 20:16:54
Originally by: Brother Welcome
Originally by: Sean Mcarthur hey this treadnought is slowing down, please don't, we need to complain about this "bug".
Surely four or five thousand posts is enough to raise an issue?!
CSM is taking it to CCP on our behalf. What more can we do, and for that matter what more should we need to do?
-vk
please when you quote then use the whole text as the first part was just a pun to point out that, in the days after the "ghost training stop blog", CCP released more info of what they are doing, than thay have for the last 3 months. Just my way of saying: ccp is trying to coverup but lets use it to gain something:-)
Oh one more thing CSM had JUST expired when this news hit and the next is just begining to form up so how can they bring it up?
Sorry about that! No corruption of your meaning was intended. I didn't realise CSM has just expired. What's going on with that?
Right now I am wholly of the belief that a skill put on train is a skill fully paid for right at that moment, and it just makes me more annoyed at CCP than ever, for the reasons people have already stated.
My account runs another 40-days, then for my part the question is extremely simple. If CCP have restored ghost-training, I will extend my sub. If not I will not.
-vk
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snotvomit
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Posted - 2008.10.20 22:07:00 -
[4701]
Edited by: snotvomit on 20/10/2008 22:09:17 I know I've mentioned it before in this thread but look at the bottom graph here:
coldfront stats
You will see that the number of players online has been steadily rising since the game began - up to March 2008.
After March, it levels off and perhaps begins falling a little. Definitely NOT increasing. Not even slightly.
This is something new for Eve. I suspect CCP had been optimistic with their projections.
Maybe the changes in GTC prices were implicated in this halt in growth.
I doubt the "Ghost Training" mess will cause the graph to begin climbing again. I also doubt that CCP will benefit financially from people staying subscribed for longer than they would otherwise.
They definitely won't have won many friends for the way they handled this either. |
Aganola
Amarr Hungarian Riflemen Regiment
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Posted - 2008.10.20 22:15:00 -
[4702]
Originally by: ZeCamerone I gotta say that I was on the verge of cancelling my subscription anyways, I was getting burned out after just 3 months of playing. This little slap in the face will probably warrant a permanent break from EvE.
just 3 months??
Then you'll lose nothing! :P
We - who play this for more than a year - feel the "ghost train" blow a lot harder!
By the way: did you all know WHY we have 3 THREE slots in an account???
That is right!
Because back in beta all three slots could train a character! All at full speed!
Then the nerfed this
Flame war began...
Then they instituted this "bug" - as they call it now - to keep us happy...
We were happy (even though our abilities got nerfed 1/3rd!)
4 year later they think it is a bug... - give me a break!
Flame war began again but this time CCP got support from players who do not know Jack about this game (they didn't even knew this bug existed for Christ sake!), they just pay for an play it a 50% capacity... :P
Some cry out for the unjust things that happened here but some say "hush! or they take even this away! and so the majority keeps quiet even though they should not" and thus they achieve now what they could not in beta...
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Jinx Barker
GFB Scientific
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Posted - 2008.10.20 22:19:00 -
[4703]
As I said before, I do not think that most people know, or realize that this is happening yet. Wait till the all the people who were gone re-subscribe and come back on the forums with another threadnought. We need to really get CSM on this. There were too many lies recent about the whole thing.
::::Click The Signature For the Blog::::
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Squirrrel
Gallente Squirrrel Industries
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Posted - 2008.10.20 22:33:00 -
[4704]
Edited by: Squirrrel on 20/10/2008 22:35:59 When they promised transparency, I mistakenly thought it related to their internal processes, not obvious paper-thin PR deceptions.
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Gunnanmon
Gallente UNITED STAR SYNDICATE R-I-P
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Posted - 2008.10.20 22:42:00 -
[4705]
I just reactivated a "ghost-training" account.
Evemon says it had 1d5h to go. In game, the skill has stopped, it had 4d16h left. Basically DT on Friday is when it stopped. The Ghost-training vote thread |
Aganola
Amarr Hungarian Riflemen Regiment
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Posted - 2008.10.20 22:49:00 -
[4706]
Originally by: Gunnanmon I just reactivated a "ghost-training" account.
Evemon says it had 1d5h to go. In game, the skill has stopped, it had 4d16h left. Basically DT on Friday is when it stopped.
just dropped-by in that thread tooo to post my oppinion!
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Malafor
Carnival Of Sins
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Posted - 2008.10.20 22:50:00 -
[4707]
Originally by: Gunnanmon I just reactivated a "ghost-training" account.
Evemon says it had 1d5h to go. In game, the skill has stopped, it had 4d16h left. Basically DT on Friday is when it stopped.
I used to have something on the "My Account" section that said it was recurring. I figured though after 5 years of playing that it must simply have been a bug, so I've "fixed" it and it no longer says anything of the sort.
-1 Account. Two more have just a couple of months to run before they get fixed too.
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Gunnanmon
Gallente UNITED STAR SYNDICATE R-I-P
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Posted - 2008.10.20 23:01:00 -
[4708]
Originally by: Malafor
Originally by: Gunnanmon I just reactivated a "ghost-training" account.
Evemon says it had 1d5h to go. In game, the skill has stopped, it had 4d16h left. Basically DT on Friday is when it stopped.
I used to have something on the "My Account" section that said it was recurring. I figured though after 5 years of playing that it must simply have been a bug, so I've "fixed" it and it no longer says anything of the sort.
-1 Account. Two more have just a couple of months to run before they get fixed too.
Aye, that's a recurring bug. A nasty one, too. The Ghost-training vote thread |
Richard Aiel
Caldari Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2008.10.20 23:11:00 -
[4709]
Originally by: snotvomit Edited by: snotvomit on 20/10/2008 22:09:17 I know I've mentioned it before in this thread but look at the bottom graph here:
coldfront stats
You will see that the number of players online has been steadily rising since the game began - up to March 2008.
After March, it levels off and perhaps begins falling a little. Definitely NOT increasing. Not even slightly.
This is something new for Eve. I suspect CCP had been optimistic with their projections.
Maybe the changes in GTC prices were implicated in this halt in growth.
I doubt the "Ghost Training" mess will cause the graph to begin climbing again. I also doubt that CCP will benefit financially from people staying subscribed for longer than they would otherwise.
They definitely won't have won many friends for the way they handled this either.
funny thing about that.... thats my sig ------------------------------------------------ CCP you are your own worst enemy. http://eve.coldfront.net/status/tranquility look at that |
mastergsann
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Posted - 2008.10.21 00:27:00 -
[4710]
Originally by: Malafor
Originally by: Gunnanmon I just reactivated a "ghost-training" account.
Evemon says it had 1d5h to go. In game, the skill has stopped, it had 4d16h left. Basically DT on Friday is when it stopped.
I used to have something on the "My Account" section that said it was recurring. I figured though after 5 years of playing that it must simply have been a bug, so I've "fixed" it and it no longer says anything of the sort.
-1 Account. Two more have just a couple of months to run before they get fixed too.
aww that almost happened to me to, i was gona bring my alt back to life as the training was nearly over but i blabbed it to a friend and he told me about this, if it wasnt for that i would never have known and i would have had to watch a 60 day GTC go down the drain cus this change makes my alt almost pointless.
skills increase ONLY when the subscription is active.... yeah riteeeeee
-1 account, deleted my alt from evemon too >.<
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Soma Khan
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Posted - 2008.10.21 00:36:00 -
[4711]
Originally by: Richard Aiel
funny thing about that.... thats my sig Look at the spot between the 15th and the 17th... theres no peak
Yeah right, and there were no DT's between the 15th and 17th either. A fine example of the freeloaders tinfoil-hattery and supposition. ___
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Szu Chang
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.10.21 00:39:00 -
[4712]
I have a problem of that recently I have been made redundant (or "compulsory leaving" as the company had to close) so I am having trouble in paying for much currently, and if I have to let EVE go for a fortnight just to pay a large bill, then I would, but now I am being told a case of "stuff training a lvl 5 still for 9 days" because of this, as I would have not gotten any training done, I only have one char and a scouting untrained alt, and thats it, yet in the near release of the Mining Orca, I am being told that I need to get a new job, in this financial climate.
Looks like I need to find a way of unlocking my pension at 23, just to play this game with the new cost hike, or leave it completely
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Richard Aiel
Caldari Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2008.10.21 00:41:00 -
[4713]
Originally by: Soma Khan
Originally by: Richard Aiel
funny thing about that.... thats my sig Look at the spot between the 15th and the 17th... theres no peak
wah wah tinfoil hattery wah wah
------------------------------------------------ CCP you are your own worst enemy. http://eve.coldfront.net/status/tranquility look at that |
IR Scoutar
Caldari State War Academy
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Posted - 2008.10.21 01:11:00 -
[4714]
Originally by: Soma Khan
Originally by: Richard Aiel
funny thing about that.... thats my sig Look at the spot between the 15th and the 17th... theres no peak
Yeah right, and there were no DT's between the 15th and 17th either. A fine example of the freeloaders tinfoil-hattery and supposition.
i never knew it doesnt require a minimum iq to keep breathing
Originally by: Richard Aiel Edited by: Richard Aiel on 20/10/2008 23:25:32
Originally by: snotvomit Edited by: snotvomit on 20/10/2008 22:09:17 I know I've mentioned it before in this thread but look at the bottom graph here:
coldfront stats
You will see that the number of players online has been steadily rising since the game began - up to March 2008.
After March, it levels off and perhaps begins falling a little. Definitely NOT increasing. Not even slightly.
This is something new for Eve. I suspect CCP had been optimistic with their projections.
Maybe the changes in GTC prices were implicated in this halt in growth.
I doubt the "Ghost Training" mess will cause the graph to begin climbing again. I also doubt that CCP will benefit financially from people staying subscribed for longer than they would otherwise.
They definitely won't have won many friends for the way they handled this either.
funny thing about that.... thats my sig Look at the spot between the 15th and the 17th... theres no peak
in actuality the coldfront polling of the server was broken (observe tah there no 16th at all) chribba has it however you probably wont see any real effect on the graphs this quickly check again in november/december to see a real impact
see what i did there Soma Khan ? i came up with an explenation not drooled all over the keyboard ...
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Soma Khan
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Posted - 2008.10.21 01:18:00 -
[4715]
Originally by: Richard Aiel
Originally by: Soma Khan
Originally by: Richard Aiel
funny thing about that.... thats my sig Look at the spot between the 15th and the 17th... theres no peak
wah wah tinfoil hattery wah wah
I commend your decision to be concise. Just looked at the other comments you posted in this thread. Found this, where you decided to expound:
Originally by: Richard Aiel
Originally by: Procurator Ultio I now actually look forward to news of layoffs at CCP and CCP eventually going out of business. Much as I love Eve, I would give it up forever in a heartbeat as the price to see you *******s punished by going out of business.
This. I hope they die off before they sully the name of White Wolf with decisions like this one.
Don't you feel even a tiny bit embarrassed to write something like this in a public forum? ___
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Azraeljbs
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Posted - 2008.10.21 01:44:00 -
[4716]
Edited by: Azraeljbs on 21/10/2008 01:46:13 I just canceled all 4 of my accounts, I will not support a company that treats their customers with disdain and simply ignore their suggestions and wishes. It's a recipe for failure, as demonstrated in such an epic way by SOE. I highly encourage any one who disagrees with this change to do the same, it's the only way that CCP will get the message. Cancel your accounts and boycott this stupid decision and stop letting CCP treat you this way. I said that in an earlier post I wasn't going to rage quit. Guess I was wrong. My main account expires in a little less than a year. the other three within a couple of months I will not renew them until this has changed or a suitable alternative is implemented. Vote with your wallets and be heard for once. It's the only way.
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Ajuika Bloth
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Posted - 2008.10.21 02:35:00 -
[4717]
Hi folks, Been playing this game for 4 years on and off, yep, one of the best things about this game was ghost training. I always came back, always. When this subscription runs out you can slowly insert my account where the sun don't shine, and I don't mean Iceland.
BUG>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>LIE EVEN PLAYFIELD>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>LIE AVALANCHE OF PLAYERS GHOSTING>>>>>>>>LIE GREED ON YOUR PART>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>TRUE
If there is anyone with an ounce of brain power in the management area there (and there must be, this is a good game which had a fantastic selling point called ghosting)they would sack the dork that came up with this little gem, not worry about removing all the adverts and blurbs from the boards extolling the virtues of such a wonderful game concept, say "sorry, we stuffed up, but you, our players are important to us" and reinstate ghosting.
I can't remember ever seeing such a seething number of posts so quickly after any Dev brainchild, and if there is one constant theme to the majority of them it is put it back. If you don't I think you will pay dearly for this, as is pretty evident from the amount of posts stating that very intention.
IF IT AINT BROKE DON'T FIX IT
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Kordel Trask
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Posted - 2008.10.21 02:40:00 -
[4718]
I have been running 3 accounts for just over 1 1/2 years. This decision doesn't send me out of control but raises the irritation factor considerable.
Point being it doesn't do any good to have 3 character slots per account when you can only train 1 in the first place! I'm all for only allowing 1 character to be played on an account at a time.
But with this change I will definitely have to drop 1 of my accounts.
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Major Dolomite
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Posted - 2008.10.21 05:14:00 -
[4719]
Edited by: Major Dolomite on 21/10/2008 05:16:07
Originally by: Ajuika Bloth I can't remember ever seeing such a seething number of posts so quickly after any Dev brainchild, and if there is one constant theme to the majority of them it is put it back.
This has gone too far. At this point I don't care if they put it back or not. I almost hope they stupidly try to tough it out. They deserve the loss of business that is now coming to pass.
As I've written elsewhere, I really, really, REALLY wish I could like and admire the CCP folks. I wish I could go to Fanfest and clap them on the backs and tell them how great they are and what an honor it is to be in their MMOG and to meet them. That would be such an ideal scene.
But in my 2-1/2 years in Eve they have offended me too many times, demonstrated stupidity too many times, shot themselves in the feet too many times, shown their utter lack of ethics too many times, and nauseated me with crude PR spin too many times. Now I want to see them go under. I will happily give up Eve, the only computer game I have ever wanted to play, for the greater good of seeing CCP go down in flames. The only interest I have in visiting Iceland is to take snapshots of the former CCP folks serving sealburgers and asking "You want fries with that?"
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Calranthe
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Posted - 2008.10.21 06:25:00 -
[4720]
I have no problem with this change and see it as entirely justified, I have three active accounts in EVE, my two and wifes one, If I didn't have the money to pay for three i'd not expect to be able to use those three in any way.
Why should people who don't pay be allowed to have there chars still gaining skills while I pay per month for my characters while training ?
Good one EVE
As to those leaving over this, no real loss i'm sure there is games out there that suit cheapskates far more.
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IR Scoutar
Caldari State War Academy
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Posted - 2008.10.21 06:33:00 -
[4721]
Originally by: Calranthe I have no problem with this change and see it as entirely justified, I have three active accounts in EVE, my two and wifes one, If I didn't have the money to pay for three i'd not expect to be able to use those three in any way.
Why should people who don't pay be allowed to have there chars still gaining skills while I pay per month for my characters while training ?
Good one EVE
As to those leaving over this, no real loss i'm sure there is games out there that suit cheapskates far more.
please re-read the topic to get a clue on why people are outraged you will find that only a very small percentage emoragequited because of just the loss of a feature
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DorXtar
The Hull Miners Union The Red Skull
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Posted - 2008.10.21 06:33:00 -
[4722]
I hate this change as much as the next person, but after allowing my subprocessor to churn over it a bit, it actually makes a lot of sense on multiple levels.
Why did CCP allow ghost training in the first place? As a gift to early adopters to make up for the lack of consistency in the performance of the infrastructure. EVE didn't always work as it should, and "our logs show nothing" was endemic, but at least you could ghost train. Sure, you lost isk to stupid, random, unpredictable glitches and crashes, but ghost training was the duct tape that kept a lot of people going in EVE.
Now that CCP has some confidence and momentum in the performance of their infrastructure, an obvious step is to remove ghost training in preparation for the influx of new blood. If you don't remove ghost training early enough, the new blood will get used to it, and will take it for granted. Before the new wave of new players hits, CCP takes out ghost training. Smart move.
Walking in stations is a big deal. It will attract more people to the game, despite what everyone else may say. Add to that, large fleet battle engagements will become a big draw now that they will consistently work without the amount of issues that existed before with the same number of players.
CCP never had the means to support mainstream status, content-wise or in terms of infrastructure. Now that the infrastructure is stable and robust, CCP can implement features into the game that will support the attentions of the mainstream.
Just as the old old veterans, early-adpoters if you will, had a time advantage on noobs, well, a lot of us had the ghost-training advantage that helped us in the pocket book, which we wholly deserved considering all the lag deaths and losses most if not all of us encountered at one time or another in EVE life.
________________________________ It never hurts to help! |
Rethie
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.10.21 06:38:00 -
[4723]
Back to the point, we cannot have what we don't pay for unless we have an active sub. eg. no training
What about the trading, research, invention, Pos, corp dividends, manufacturing? etc etc
These still occur unsubbed!!!!
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Sandy Minge
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Posted - 2008.10.21 06:51:00 -
[4724]
Originally by: DorXtar I hate this change as much as the next person, but after allowing my subprocessor to churn over it a bit, it actually makes a lot of sense on multiple levels.
Why did CCP allow ghost training in the first place? As a gift to early adopters to make up for the lack of consistency in the performance of the infrastructure. EVE didn't always work as it should, and "our logs show nothing" was endemic, but at least you could ghost train. Sure, you lost isk to stupid, random, unpredictable glitches and crashes, but ghost training was the duct tape that kept a lot of people going in EVE.
Now that CCP has some confidence and momentum in the performance of their infrastructure, an obvious step is to remove ghost training in preparation for the influx of new blood. If you don't remove ghost training early enough, the new blood will get used to it, and will take it for granted. Before the new wave of new players hits, CCP takes out ghost training. Smart move.
Walking in stations is a big deal. It will attract more people to the game, despite what everyone else may say. Add to that, large fleet battle engagements will become a big draw now that they will consistently work without the amount of issues that existed before with the same number of players.
CCP never had the means to support mainstream status, content-wise or in terms of infrastructure. Now that the infrastructure is stable and robust, CCP can implement features into the game that will support the attentions of the mainstream.
Just as the old old veterans, early-adpoters if you will, had a time advantage on noobs, well, a lot of us had the ghost-training advantage that helped us in the pocket book, which we wholly deserved considering all the lag deaths and losses most if not all of us encountered at one time or another in EVE life.
If everyone adopted your posting habits this thread would have been 4000 pages long. Basically because all your points have been already discussed just a few posts before over and over FFS. But here it comes again: It's not the money - It's the way CCP tries to spin it. And no: GhostSkilling wasn't intended as complensation for cluster mishaps. CCP says it was a bug all along! So you just suggested expoiting a bug with your compensatory measure thory. In conclusion CCP should ban you for this self righeous act! :o)
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IR Scoutar
Caldari State War Academy
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Posted - 2008.10.21 07:22:00 -
[4725]
Originally by: DorXtar I hate this change as much as the next person, but after allowing my subprocessor to churn over it a bit, it actually makes a lot of sense on multiple levels.
Why did CCP allow ghost training in the first place? As a gift to early adopters to make up for the lack of consistency in the performance of the infrastructure. EVE didn't always work as it should, and "our logs show nothing" was endemic, but at least you could ghost train. Sure, you lost isk to stupid, random, unpredictable glitches and crashes, but ghost training was the duct tape that kept a lot of people going in EVE.
Allow me to first start by saying i have considered this aswell but i have thought about it again and came to other conclusions
what you describe here is still going strong while yes glitches and oopsies have allmost dissapeared life is not so good out in deep 0.0 where glitches are still more comon than faction spawns
Originally by: DorXtar Now that CCP has some confidence and momentum in the performance of their infrastructure, an obvious step is to remove ghost training in preparation for the influx of new blood. If you don't remove ghost training early enough, the new blood will get used to it, and will take it for granted. Before the new wave of new players hits, CCP takes out ghost training. Smart move.
While one could agree with this "ghost training" only stands on the top of things that continue on long after you cant logg in so why only this ?
Originally by: DorXtar Walking in stations is a big deal. It will attract more people to the game, despite what everyone else may say. Add to that, large fleet battle engagements will become a big draw now that they will consistently work without the amount of issues that existed before with the same number of players.
walking in stations is still at least 1 year away if they want to release it sloppily and buggriddled 2 years if they want to do it propperly and with rising playernumbers the fleet size rises aswell and problems will just drag along with it (on heavily loaded nodes even small gang skirmishes can go wonkey )
Originally by: DorXtar CCP never had the means to support mainstream status, content-wise or in terms of infrastructure. Now that the infrastructure is stable and robust, CCP can implement features into the game that will support the attentions of the mainstream.
In my eyes the infrastructure can still only barly handle its current load without any hotspots forming good news about walking in stations is that that shouldnt realy put much more of a strain on the servers/databases just clients
Originally by: DorXtar
Just as the old old veterans, early-adpoters if you will, had a time advantage on noobs, well, a lot of us had the ghost-training advantage that helped us in the pocket book, which we wholly deserved considering all the lag deaths and losses most if not all of us encountered at one time or another in EVE life.
this is where we part thought lines radicaly i never thought that "ghost training" was my well deserved freebee because the game was bugriddled i always thought of it as an incentive and/or bonus for returning to the game after you took a break or couldnt pay or whatever besides how would i play the game when i stop playing to get my free training time thats not saying of course i didnt somewhat factor that possibility in and infact used it to further my character(s) when i was on vacation or simply burned out there is always a stupidy long skill that you need to "unlock" something nice and shiny however i maintain that this was always more of an incentive to return when i was away from the game that holds especialy true if i was away for reasons other than vacation (wich usualy is short anyways)
so even for future players i think it was a wrong decision to remove this feature
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Clansworth
Burning Sky Labs Libertas Fidelitas
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Posted - 2008.10.21 07:38:00 -
[4726]
Originally by: Sentient Mayhem You are wrong. Every company does not do this. At least not to the extent where the existing products long term survival are being sacrificed to support the development of the new product. I've been a customer of a MMO company in the past that was pursuing the development of a new MMO.(Mythic-Dark Age of Camelot & Warhammer) Inevitably the customers of the original product begin to suffer as the most talented employees are deployed to work on the new game and the "B" team left behind to run the original game aren't up to the task. As the development of the new game moves into full swing, resources and finances become strained and short sighted decisions are made that will hurt the game long term but the company see's a possible short term gain and so they make the decision anyway. What do they care? If the new MMO is a hit, the fate of the original product is not nearly so important.
I was speaking in broader terms than just the online gaming market. I'm talking worldwide, in every market, every company that makes/sells a product uses profits garnered from existing products to finance future product development. The extent to which it affects the quality of the existing product depend on how much support an existing product needs, and how much that support is restricted by focusing on the future product. I feel EvE is still a very good product, and the development going on to this day is still for the better. Originally by: Sentient Mayhem
I believe that is exactly what we are seeing here. A "B" team left in the custody of Eve while the "A" team focuses its efforts on CCP's new MMO. We are also seeing the short sighted decisions which is going to cost Eve players(customers) long term but CCP is doing it anyway because they see it as a solution which might raise precious extra revenues short term.
I don't believe you are seeing a 'B' team vs. 'A' team problem with eve yet. The A team is still on the EvE team, and still developing for EvE. They are just making sure that what they DO develop for EvE can be easily used in WoD. (Ambulation being a prime example) Originally by: Sentient Mayhem
They miscalculated this time though. Unlike the Time Card change which may have netted them additional short term revenues, this decision is going to cost them dearly right away. I believe they are going to see a noticeable drop in active subscriptions in as short as a months time. Give it 2 to 3 months for many of the active subs to run out, you are going to see an even bigger drop.
For the CCP Fanboi's who are saying good riddance to those quitting, you are pure idiots. The game you like to play is not going to be so much fun as the downward spiral of player departures takes its toll on the active player population. And if you think CCP has issues now running this game properly, just wait to see what you have in store when they have significantly less revenue from lost subscriptions to work with while still having relatively the same overhead to cover.
Personally, I don't believe CCP IS having issues operating the game. Gameplay has done nothing but improved over the last year or so, and some very good gameplay enhancements are on SiSi as we speak.
As for the downward spiral, It has been evident from the posts in this thread, that the number of Active Accounts will certainly drop by a significant amount. However, the number of Active Players will only drop by a slight amount. Most complaints so far have been about people not re-upping their alts. A person't alts for the most part benefit that person alone, and actually do some harm to the game in general, as the distribution of wealth in game starts to more reflect the difference in wealth in RL. Those who can afford more in RL can run more alts, and make isk easier/passivly in game. I feel EvE would only be improved by a drop in Alt-play, as it would lead more people to depend on others, ENHANCING the gameplay experience for all.
POS Personal Storage |
BLACK D0G
Garoun Investment Bank
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Posted - 2008.10.21 09:09:00 -
[4727]
Originally by: Rethie Back to the point, we cannot have what we don't pay for unless we have an active sub. eg. no training
What about the trading, research, invention, Pos, corp dividends, manufacturing? etc etc
These still occur unsubbed!!!!
Still this tbh.
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Brother Welcome
Amarr Suddenly Ninjas Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
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Posted - 2008.10.21 09:42:00 -
[4728]
Edited by: Brother Welcome on 21/10/2008 09:46:15 I endeavoured to explain how training works so that players who don't want to read through this threadnaught could get some insight into the feature change. I put that in General Discussion, because it seemed general, and I wanted to evoke discussion. The thread was locked and I was directed here. I've petitioned it.
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=902748
I'm astonished by CCP's handling of this whole thing. As I now understand the functionality, consistent with having to pause training to plug-in implants and so on, the whole cost of training is fully paid up when you set it going. That means that it's like pulling into a petrol station and putting in $30 of petrol. It's all paid up front, but you see the benefit of it eked out over time as you drive along.
The petrol station guy can't come and siphon gas out of your tank just because you've decided not to come back to get more for a couple of months!
The whole 'snowflake' analogy was disingenuous, at best, and a bald-faced lie, at worst. I can only hope that it was made without knowing how the game really worked.
-vk
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Sha Kharn
Minmatar STK Scientific N.A.S.A
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Posted - 2008.10.21 09:58:00 -
[4729]
Never used ghost training but -3 from me for the lies. I know im starting to get sick of it.
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Melody Elvisdottir
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Posted - 2008.10.21 10:20:00 -
[4730]
perhaps those who want to see Eve die will get their wish.....aren't CCP working on a world of darkness MMO? Perhaps this is a grab for funding for this project, with the knock on effect that Eve will die because of the bad feeling generated by this decision, (good luck getting existing eve players to migrate to WOD, you may well have just lost a large portion of your new playerbase even before beta testing). As an aside, myself and 4 friends added new accounts under the power of 2 promotion, at least 2 of which were reactivated accounts that had been ghost training useful skills, and wouldn't have been reactivated if the slog to battleship 5, cruiser 5 etc was still ahead. it's saddening to see that ccp appear to care so little about this issue that they have not posted anything constructive in this thread. just out of interest, how many players have transferred characters to their main account? each one of those is a juicy 20 bucks, and perhaps the reactivation of ghost training accounts and transfer fees will net CCP a bundle of cash for whatever they need (perhaps some new secret project, an uber-mega-server, adding jovians, who knows?) . I like this game, I don't want to see it become less than it was, or die, I've invested a lot of time and money into this big sandbox. CCP, we've all become convinced that this is a) a bad idea and b) just a grab for money.
If it's not, reassure us it isn't, your dev blog didn't do enough to put those worries to rest, and the lack of communication after simply reinforced what we already think we know.
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Light Raider
Gallente Lusa Atenas
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Posted - 2008.10.21 10:50:00 -
[4731]
Hi,
I'm going to put this as simple as I can...
Please CCP CEO, give us the ghost training feature back again.
Thanks
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Bob Killan
Caldari Dzark Asylum
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Posted - 2008.10.21 10:59:00 -
[4732]
Originally by: Soma Khan
Originally by: Richard Aiel
funny thing about that.... thats my sig Look at the spot between the 15th and the 17th... theres no peak
Yeah right, and there were no DT's between the 15th and 17th either. A fine example of the freeloaders tinfoil-hattery and supposition.
Also 1 graph show 36k peak yesterday and the 2 below show 39K peak, hmmmmm is all i can say
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masty
Gallente Empyrean Ascendance
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Posted - 2008.10.21 11:47:00 -
[4733]
seriously CCP - UTTER FAIL This is basically shooting yourselves in the foot. You are going to make people with multiple accounts cancel them for what????? - Lettin their account lapse for a MAX one month at a time? Lets do the math -
a)person pays, at the very least, every other month for multiple account until trained to were they want then regularly pay
OR
b)person does not even START or gives up second account because it will take too long and cost to much
CCP: 'I'll take door b) and the massive 150+ page thread that will generate please as i slap the player base in the face'
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Trinneth
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Posted - 2008.10.21 11:56:00 -
[4734]
Huzzah, ghost thread is resurrected!
I think CCP have the right to do this, but I don't believe it was wise. To illustrate, a post I read earlier today from my corp forums:
[Quote="Corp forums"]I haven't been playing much lately, partly because of RL, partly because of other games and partly because I haven't felt like I'm doing much progress when I'm logged in the game anyway.
My account is set to expire on the 26th and my alt account expired today - I was initially planning to set a long skill and come back to fresh lvl5 skills in a month, but with ghost training gone, I'd be coming back to two very long skill trainings and well.. in that case I might as well wait until I find the spark again..
This is someone who was running two accounts and would have been back in a month or so. Now? Well, he's also playing Warhammer, and just returned to WoW in time for the expansion...
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Ajuika Bloth
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Posted - 2008.10.21 12:13:00 -
[4735]
Scenario: YEAR-2015 Place: Whyccp Institute of Real Bad Stuffups' Old Headquarters (Currently owned by The Institute of Understanding Your Average MMORPG Player)
"Ok folks, todays lesson is on the ace in the hole. This is the one lesson you need 100% on to pass this course. Yep, you may pass the course with flying colours with credits elsewhere, but will fail in the big world if you do not grasp the fundementals of this lecture, just like those people that ran that great game called EVE back in 2008."
Joey Longhaul finished picking his nose, rolls the result up into a deadly missile and hurls it at Sarah Pyrate. "Sir, if this is so important, why the hell is it not in the reqired reading for the course?"
"Good question Joey, us academics love putting these tricky modules into the mix, and one thing I will tell you for free today boy, if the heat don't max yer modules, stupidity will, ya see Joey, I was part of the mass exodus that crippled CCP in 2008."
"Wow sir, really?"
"Yes Joey, look, they made heaps of stuff ups, but Eve in those days was the best mix of individuals I had ever gamed with. There was liars and honest, heroes and cowards, cheats and straight, lovers and haters, flamers and carbears, but you know what, they were all great folks, they all played the toughest game on the wires, and they were all good. They were loyal to CCP, and then it happened. Look, CCP had made the odd mistake up to this point, but when they dropped ghosting, well they dropped the game."
Joey with his hands down his shorts playing pocket billiards, or as the old time MMORPG researchers call it "The Eve Long Stare" gets a good hold. "Sir, you say you were a player of Eve, well everyone knows that it was the classic stuff up of all time, but that was seven years ago, MMORPG's are now a 20 trillion dollar a year industry, why bring up a bunch of folks, that could not hold it together when there are so many models that worked?"
"Simple Joey, think about it, who are the dumbest, self centred clueless *****s on the planet, I will save you the chore. Politicians son, they are some of the hardest working, yet pathetic people we know, but they are still smart enough to "LEAK" a new propsal if they know it may bring some hurt to their ultimate aim, in their case, a good voter, CCP's well I guess to make a buck."
Joey stares long and hard at the pimple on his left nut, thinks of squeezing it but gets a puffy thinking of the fun he will have back home where he won't be sprung by his classmates. "Ok sir, what the hell is the point here, I don't understand it, I mean CCP made it all the way through to 2011, that is a good run!"
"Yes it was Joey, and get your hand out of your pants, yep a great run, but this is the crux of it Joey, CCP were working to a business model that does not really exist in the MMORPG world. You see, they were going for cash, not the long haul, they ****ed of their player base for no reason other than to make a buck, and last, BUT most importantly, they took their player base for fools.So two bits of buck and a fool is soon parted, remember that Joey and you might get somewhere."
As Joey was walking home that night, his mind running riot on the doomed pimple, he could not get the thought of the afternoons lecture out of his mind. Dammm it to hell, if he had only been born a few years ealier, he could have played Eve as well.
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ChemicalX
|
Posted - 2008.10.21 12:47:00 -
[4736]
Edited by: ChemicalX on 21/10/2008 12:51:58
Originally by: Brother Welcome
I'm astonished by CCP's handling of this whole thing. As I now understand the functionality, consistent with having to pause training to plug-in implants and so on, the whole cost of training is fully paid up when you set it going. That means that it's like pulling into a petrol station and putting in $30 of petrol. It's all paid up front, but you see the benefit of it eked out over time as you drive along.
The petrol station guy can't come and siphon gas out of your tank just because you've decided not to come back to get more for a couple of months!
Oh man, this was beautiful, when I read this I nearly choked. It's exactly like this and it's exactly like so many others have stated with their end date/time scenarios. This isn't WOW, this isn't Archlord, this is EVE people. In other games if I'm gone for a month, I can just come back and hack away at monsters till I've caught up my lost XP. In EVE, that's impossible. Some other guy's son said it best (I think he is 17??? FFS, wake up CCP!), something in the lines of, "I can't just go rat for a day to catch up my SP".
And to those who are posting their silly "this is correct and you are all idiots" posts, no one who's never taken a break from eve for whatever reason will ever understand the importance of being able to "ghost train" (Whoever thought up this "ghost train" trash talk should be dragged into the street and shot).
And to the crabcakes who are going on and on and on (FFS, enough already!) and on and on about "if you don't have money get lost", I have the money to pay for my accounts, I just don't always have the time for eve due to work and I sometimes take a breather from the addiction before it ends my marriage. This entire issue doesn't revolve around money, the issue revolves around the ability to never be able to catch up again. I played some other MMO's the last while, I'd log in, see my friends were a few levels ahead of me and buy myself XP potions or XP skills or whatever and go grind away at monsters for an hour or two and be caught up agian.
Before CCP removed "ghost training" they should have implemented a way for people to catch up again once they came back. Then there wouldn't have even been ONE post about this on any forum, then again, wouldn't that just be the same as not removing this FEATURE (There I said it! IT'S A F*****G FEATURE YOU (removed extreme amount of profanity after downing a few glasses of Johnny Black)) at all?.
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Kerfira
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Posted - 2008.10.21 12:56:00 -
[4737]
Edited by: Kerfira on 21/10/2008 12:56:29
Originally by: Brother Welcome I'm astonished by CCP's handling of this whole thing. As I now understand the functionality, consistent with having to pause training to plug-in implants and so on, the whole cost of training is fully paid up when you set it going. That means that it's like pulling into a petrol station and putting in $30 of petrol. It's all paid up front, but you see the benefit of it eked out over time as you drive along.
The petrol station guy can't come and siphon gas out of your tank just because you've decided not to come back to get more for a couple of months!
You're not paying for a number of units to use as you see fit. You're paying for the right to use their product for a specific period....
So no.... You DON'T understand the functionality....
It's more like renting the car for 1 month with free petrol. You can drive it all you want in that month, but once the month is up and you don't pay, you're not allowed to drive the car any more.
Originally by: CCP Wrangler EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
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Iluminat
Minmatar Sharp Dressed Man
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Posted - 2008.10.21 13:14:00 -
[4738]
It's a strange game mechanic that one can skill without a subscription. I dont use ghost training, but i agree with most people here that something that is here for 5 years aint a bug.
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Phive Dollaho
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Posted - 2008.10.21 13:14:00 -
[4739]
Edited by: Phive Dollaho on 21/10/2008 13:15:31 Edited by: Phive Dollaho on 21/10/2008 13:14:42 sigh it was advertised as a game feature till they removed it from the player guide after the outcry
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Reticulan
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Posted - 2008.10.21 13:17:00 -
[4740]
Never had a subscription go dead/Ghost.
However this is the final nail.
Has been fun.
-4 accounts, april approx, Lesson learnt never use 1 year subscriptions.
Retty.
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Davina Braben
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Posted - 2008.10.21 13:32:00 -
[4741]
There's a couple of threads in Assembly Hall you should be voting in.
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yani dumyat
|
Posted - 2008.10.21 13:48:00 -
[4742]
Originally by: Davina Braben There's a couple of threads in Assembly Hall you should be voting in.
8 pages in the voting thread so far and 158 here, that's a 19.75:1 whine to vote ratio
If anyone has a CSM in their corp please whisper the words "coup d'etat" in their ear or if you're leaning left maybe a history of the labour movement and the effectiveness of strikes <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> If in doubt then all is good If not in doubt then ask yourself harder questions |
Handik Rarma
|
Posted - 2008.10.21 13:54:00 -
[4743]
Edited by: Handik Rarma on 21/10/2008 13:55:19 I've been with Eve for over 5 years now and I'm sorry to say that this latest gem by CCP has made my mind up - 4 accounts cancelled and won't be renewed when the time comes unless they rethink this. The loss of revenue from me maybe a snowflake to CCP but I hope I'm not the only one and they see another avalanche coming their way. |
Janus Duo
Gallente Down In Flames
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Posted - 2008.10.21 14:08:00 -
[4744]
Originally by: yani dumyat 8 pages in the voting thread so far and 158 here, that's a 19.75:1 whine to vote ratio
Well, since most of the posts here are stating account cancellations...
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Mastergsan
|
Posted - 2008.10.21 14:40:00 -
[4745]
Edited by: Mastergsan on 21/10/2008 14:41:20 yay 38 days left on my account then im quitting this crap.
-2 accounts - congrats ccp, ill have a juicy message for you when you email in a couple months time asking me why i left and if ill come back.
as i stated before:
-2 accounts/snowflakes
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SZ Rota
Caldari Eve University Ivy League
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Posted - 2008.10.21 14:54:00 -
[4746]
You forgot the other 49 page thread they locked and set adrift in the Information Portal in the beginning.
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Richard Aiel
Caldari Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2008.10.21 15:01:00 -
[4747]
for all the "i quit screw you" and "-x accounts" posts I have yet to see the affect on the online numbers in coldfront looks like ppl are screaming about leaving on forums and then playing behind the forums back lol ------------------------------------------------ CCP you are your own worst enemy. http://eve.coldfront.net/status/tranquility look at that |
schniefer
Gallente Montoya Heavy Industries
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Posted - 2008.10.21 15:27:00 -
[4748]
-1 account (already chars with skills removed). thanks for making this decision that easy, ccp
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Razzlee
|
Posted - 2008.10.21 15:27:00 -
[4749]
Edited by: Razzlee on 21/10/2008 15:35:27
Originally by: Richard Aiel for all the "i quit screw you" and "-x accounts" posts I have yet to see the affect on the online numbers in coldfront looks like ppl are screaming about leaving on forums and then playing behind the forums back lol
Do take into account that once you cancel a subscription there is normally play time left on it. Most of us who are quitting out of a matter of principle still enjoy the game and will be playing until the subscriptions run out. Sort of a weird predicament to be in where you love a company's product but absolutely hate the company itself.
Unfortunately, the only way to make CCP care is to hit them in the wallet. Nearly 200 pages of a cresendo of player concerns between this thread and the one they locked earlier. They just don't care. They will not see another penny from me unless this decision is reversed.(coming from somone who had 10 accounts that were almost always subbed-very little ghost training)
Two of my accounts are expired now. They would have been resubbed with no ghost training, but fortunately for me, they came due right in the time window between when CCP made the announcement and when it took effect.(very short time window) It gave me time to make sure those accounts did not resub. I have have one other within two weeks that won't be resubbing. The remainder spread out over the next 3 months.
Good game CCP. This latest money grab is going to cost you immensely. Although the full impact is not likely going to be felt for a few more months.
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Dirk Bond
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Posted - 2008.10.21 15:27:00 -
[4750]
I was going to get another account... And now I am not.
This whole thing has been handled worse than a toddler over a balcony. I really hope someone at CCP reads this whole thread and cries. Do they realise that they're slowly beating EVE into a misformed heap?
If only Captain Planet were here... He'd make things right.
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Commander Drizzt
Caldari The Cowboy Junkies
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Posted - 2008.10.21 15:30:00 -
[4751]
Originally by: Richard Aiel for all the "i quit screw you" and "-x accounts" posts I have yet to see the affect on the online numbers in coldfront looks like ppl are screaming about leaving on forums and then playing behind the forums back lol
Well, I didn't personally complain on the forums but I did let my main expire and I cancelled this account (29 days left). I know it's only ~$30.00/month lost, but hey, snowflakes and all... This is the captain. We have a little problem with our entry sequence, so we may experience some slight turbulence...and then explode. |
SZ Rota
Caldari Eve University Ivy League
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Posted - 2008.10.21 15:33:00 -
[4752]
Edited by: SZ Rota on 21/10/2008 15:34:33 See page 2 of the Information Portal for that 49 page thread.
As to seeing the number of subscribed accounts dropà
You wonÆt necessarily see for a while the effects of CCP removing this feature.
Accounts canceled outright might still have a few weeks or even months left on them. A notable group in this category are those who signed up for the Power Of Two category, only to be stabbed in the back by CCP right afterwards changing the rules.
Some accounts will run out pretty soon, but some which players intend on later canceling, will actually have to be activated short term.
If you want to sell off your second, third, forth character, youÆll have to activate it to sell it, then later cancel the account.
If you want to transfer your second, third, or forth account, to a main account to consolidate accounts, youÆll have to activate it, then later cancel the account.
If you wanted to catch the last of the ghost training, and then finish up any short term projects on a second, third, forth character, youÆd activate it, and finish the project in a week or a month or two, then transfer the character, then later cancel the account.
Then there are the people who were taking a break and havenÆt heard about the change yet.
No, you wonÆt necessarily see a sudden dip in the number of active subscriptions. You might, but there are forces going both ways, both causing more activations as well as the cancellations, so I donÆt know which way the graph will turn short term.
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IR Scoutar
Caldari State War Academy
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Posted - 2008.10.21 15:43:00 -
[4753]
Originally by: Kerfira Edited by: Kerfira on 21/10/2008 12:56:29
Originally by: Brother Welcome I'm astonished by CCP's handling of this whole thing. As I now understand the functionality, consistent with having to pause training to plug-in implants and so on, the whole cost of training is fully paid up when you set it going. That means that it's like pulling into a petrol station and putting in $30 of petrol. It's all paid up front, but you see the benefit of it eked out over time as you drive along.
The petrol station guy can't come and siphon gas out of your tank just because you've decided not to come back to get more for a couple of months!
You're not paying for a number of units to use as you see fit. You're paying for the right to use their product for a specific period....
So no.... You DON'T understand the functionality....
It's more like renting the car for 1 month with free petrol. You can drive it all you want in that month, but once the month is up and you don't pay, you're not allowed to drive the car any more.
analogys just dont work propperly but try it like this
you live in the cold cold north where your car's engine constantly needs to be kept warm otherwise it freezes and you cant get it going and a bunch of other nasty things (some ppl will know that ;) ) now you go rent a car wich exclusivly remains your car but you only paying while your driving (fuel included) but the cool thing is it comes with a free "keep engine warm" package now after 5 years the rent goes up and if you decided to pay your car in "drive time cards" you notice you cant vary your driving that much anymore so you decide to let your car sit arround for longer periods at the same time the rental company sees that ppl arnt driving their cars that much anymore and conclude that this must have to do with their policy to keep the engine warm for free hence they take that away now the consumer sees a car thats more expensive and that he will have trouble restarting at all
hope this analogy is crazy enough
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Judas Jones
Amarr Black Company
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Posted - 2008.10.21 16:00:00 -
[4754]
Still got a few weeks til my eub expires and it all gets bio, but you may or maynot see the visable side of this becuase a lot of poeple are simply abandoning multiple/atl account's and some who were going to take a break or are on a break simply wont ever bother renewing there sub. So the effect of this, coupled with thoes that eventually going to leave once the speed nerf's/racial crippling;s hit, well CCP will see this credit crunch in the months ahead.
Enjoy
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mastergsann
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Posted - 2008.10.21 16:22:00 -
[4755]
Originally by: Richard Aiel for all the "i quit screw you" and "-x accounts" posts I have yet to see the affect on the online numbers in coldfront looks like ppl are screaming about leaving on forums and then playing behind the forums back lol
oh man of little understanding, we still have time left on our accounts but when it finishes it will finish indeed.
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Mastergsan
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Posted - 2008.10.21 16:35:00 -
[4756]
you know what... let me be the first to say i quit eve even with time left on my account, i will NOT keep it active though an entire super long training time and if its not active there will be no progress so that renders my account useless, i dont really mind tbh, i guess i needed this final push to leave this game anyway.
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crazyiven
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2008.10.21 17:01:00 -
[4757]
Well this is lame, Been playen eve a long time. Most of the time my work determines my play time. So Id set a skill till i get back to a normal play time. If my account went dead in that time fine. Just rolled 60mill in sp. I would be done with EVE, It is the one part of the game that keeps me sending them my cash.
stupid move
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crazyiven
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2008.10.21 17:06:00 -
[4758]
Well this is lame, Been playen eve a long time. Most of the time my work determines my play time. So Id set a skill till i get back to a normal play time. If my account went dead in that time fine. Just rolled 60mill in sp. I will be done with EVE, It is the one part of the game that keeps me sending them my cash.
stupid move
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crazyiven
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2008.10.21 17:07:00 -
[4759]
Well this is lame, Been playen eve a long time. Most of the time my work determines my play time. So Id set a skill till i get back to a normal play time. If my account went dead in that time fine. Just rolled 60mill in sp. I will be done with EVE, It is the one part of the game that keeps me sending them my cash. Minus the fact that I bounce between two accounts.
stupid move
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Benedic
The Aftermath
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Posted - 2008.10.21 17:11:00 -
[4760]
Edited by: Benedic on 21/10/2008 17:11:33
Originally by: Richard Aiel for all the "i quit screw you" and "-x accounts" posts I have yet to see the affect on the online numbers in coldfront looks like ppl are screaming about leaving on forums and then playing behind the forums back lol
Wins the prize for idiot of the thread.
1.) people who have several accounts are generally not logged in on them all at the same time
2.) people who were ghost training on an off cycle wouldn't show up in the numbers anyway
3.) people who were ghost training on an on cycle won't stop logging in til their account expires
4.) this is probably the most important point, subscriber numbers have done NOTHING but go up for the past year. Online numbers now are exactly the same as they were 1 year ago. What does this say? It says CCP isn't successful at bringing in new accounts (and making them stay), just getting people to make alts. Now that they are telling alts to shove it, you will see greatly reduced active/semi-active subscription numbers.
For me, I don't really care, this game has sucked for years, and will most likely continue to go down hill. I haven't done anything except progressquest my accounts aside from the occasional "lets do something for the lulz" night in the last 2-3 years. I cba selling my eve stuff, so I might as well keep subscribing til my ISK runs out (game will be dead by then).
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Sandy Minge
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Posted - 2008.10.21 17:16:00 -
[4761]
Originally by: Richard Aiel for all the "i quit screw you" and "-x accounts" posts I have yet to see the affect on the online numbers in coldfront looks like ppl are screaming about leaving on forums and then playing behind the forums back lol
Whom does Coldfront get the subscription numbers from btw?
CCP? - Your trustworthy Orwellian Information Network? :P
Even if subscriptions go down its doubtful that they will publish this. Hopefully EA takes over CCP quickly enough to fire the whole management!
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Gorek Loc
Etherware Heavy Engineering
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Posted - 2008.10.21 17:21:00 -
[4762]
Quoted from the Dev Blog:
Originally by: CCP t0rfifrans" We can look at this from a variety of angles, but it all comes down to:
1. There was a way to progress a character in EVE without an active subscription 2. CCP noticed a surge in the trend and decided to fix the leak 3. Players now have to pay a subscription for characters to have them progress
We truly hope that the community will understand our actions and continue to enjoy playing EVE as much as we enjoy making it.
On my behalf, I ran 3 accounts. I have been taking advantage of your generous 'power of 2' offers. However, after 6 months, I felt that the expences were too much for me to handle for playing a game. I couldn't find any special offers for good customers. Like a discount for multiple accounts. I got the 14 days free playtime with one of my accounts for the Factional Warfare, which made me activate that account again. Now with mining Barge V training, ready for an exhumer. I played the 14 days and prolonged it to 1 more month, deactivating my pvp-account (Until I want to pvp again).
I don't play so much as to have the isk to pay for my playtime. I don't have 500m to spare for each account for the extra 60 days playtime. Maybe with cheaper, or shorter timecards, it may be possible.
Finally I got to ask a few questions:
1. Did the management take any time to reflect on, how the playerbase might have seen this disabling of a feature? 2. You say the issue was growing out of your hands, so the databases couldn't keep up. How many of those accounts have been using the 'power of 2' offers? 3. Pay to play, fair enough, but since the demise of the shorter and cheaper gametime cards, it is getting harder to pay to play. 4. It is possible to create a discount for a player with multiple accounts? After all, CCP has encouraged players to have multiple accounts with several 'power of 2' offers. What I am thinking is, it is better to ge e.g. $12 for the second or fifth account than nothing?
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Davina Braben
|
Posted - 2008.10.21 17:44:00 -
[4763]
Interview with Torfri: http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/14/feature/2349/Ghost-Training-Interview
Highlights: Repeats that it was simple oversight that we all thought this was a feature but CCP thought it was a bug. Affirms that they had the opportunity to remove it earlier but didn't bother (is this true? Was there an earlier Sisi patch and a hullaballoo that resulted in them not bothering?). Thinks this will have no impact on returning customers.
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Raymond Sterns
Utopian Research I.E.L. The ENTITY.
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Posted - 2008.10.21 18:02:00 -
[4764]
Edited by: Raymond Sterns on 21/10/2008 18:02:05
Originally by: Davina Braben
Thinks this will have no impact on returning customers.
HAHAHAAAAHAAAHAAAHAAHA OH, HE HO, HA ha, oh hee hee.
And I thought you *my* jokes were bad. _ Hooray for shitty marketing moves.
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Ramblin Man
Empyreum
|
Posted - 2008.10.21 18:03:00 -
[4765]
Originally by: Davina Braben Interview with Torfri: http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/14/feature/2349/Ghost-Training-Interview
Highlights: Repeats that it was simple oversight that we all thought this was a feature but CCP thought it was a bug. Affirms that they had the opportunity to remove it earlier but didn't bother (is this true? Was there an earlier Sisi patch and a hullaballoo that resulted in them not bothering?). Thinks this will have no impact on returning customers.
Yeah, they said they were going to remove it half a year back or so (roughly?), but then changed their minds because, to paraphrase, 'We know so many of you guys use it!'
have love, willing to give it industrially .CCPGinger |
Sandy Minge
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Posted - 2008.10.21 18:08:00 -
[4766]
Originally by: Davina Braben Interview with Torfri: http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/14/feature/2349/Ghost-Training-Interview
Highlights: Repeats that it was simple oversight that we all thought this was a feature but CCP thought it was a bug. Affirms that they had the opportunity to remove it earlier but didn't bother (is this true? Was there an earlier Sisi patch and a hullaballoo that resulted in them not bothering?). Thinks this will have no impact on returning customers.
“We announced it as a bug, which it was to a lot of us old devs, but as it turned out, our website listed it as a feature because we had outsourced the writing of our career guide to someone who was not knowledgeable about the code itself, years ago back in 2004… It was like a virus waiting to get out and nobody had really given it much thought until it was pointed out when the whole debate started.”
Omg it was like a virus waiting to get out! - This sounds like the plot to the next Resident Evil movie - Since when belongs CCP to the UMBRA Corporation?
I asked whether the company was concerned that some players would not re-subscribe to the game because of this decision:
“Probably some.” He answered and acknowledged. “Probably some who have become accustomed to it, and I realize that. Because if they’ve grown accustomed to it as a feature of the game and now we’re taking it out, but I genuinely hope that they’re going to come back. We’ve got an expansion coming out called Quantum Rising and we’ll be making an announcement at Fanfest regarding stuff that’s coming very soon in the future which hopefully will make our players come back in big numbers because we’re putting things into the game that a lot of people have been waiting for for a long time.” Don’t get too excited though folks, he was also quick to point out that walking in stations is still in the longer future but that an announcement regarding in-space gameplay would be coming at Fanfest (which MMORPG.com will be covering).
- Before You start giving interviews get your facts straight: Your own marketing crew calls it QUANTUM RISE not QUANTUM RISING. Perhaps another example of miscommunication? Did you outsource your interview ghost-writers, too?
“At the end of the day, it wasn’t fair and we decided to shut it down. We anticipated that people might be upset about it. We did not anticipate such a big uproar about it.”
- Not fair for your wallets? Talk about fairness much? Whom did it hurt? I for one would call a pay per play system fair which only charges you for playing when you are actually playing! But I guess thats the deviation of peoples opinions...
“At the time,” Torfi explained, “we had not introduced EVE time codes. Everyone was using credit card subscriptions so it was more of an effort to un-subscribe and re-subscribe than it is today. That’s why it wasn’t such a common play style back then.”
- You only introduced the GTCs in order to maximize the revenue from ppl who like the fancy stuff but don't have the time to grind - hence prefer to shop it. Don't hate the player - hate the game!
Overall, I have to say I am stunned by the avalanche of ignorance I just got struck by! You had your free ticket to earn some understanding and respect back but you had to to take it to the economic useless bullpoo!
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Sylvmar
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.10.21 18:38:00 -
[4767]
Just adding my opinion to the pile.
Bad move CCP
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Talsha Talamar
Amarr Nebula Rasa Holdings Nebula Rasa
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Posted - 2008.10.21 18:48:00 -
[4768]
The most intresting information in the interview, is the amount of accounts running on unsubscribed training.
Quote:
[...] how many people were using the feature at the time of the announcement. The answer was 10,000. [...] 10,000 people out of the roughly 240,000 subscribers [...] 4.16% of EVEÆs player base were using the feature.
5.000 posts in this ongoing thread so far, indicate that the impact of this issue is much wider. To check if the removal of "Ghost Training" indeed, is one of the major issue of the last few years, I compiled a ranking of threads in the "Eve Information Portal", that had more than 1000 posts.
The ranking showed that this thread, is the second most active individual one since 2006, while it is still going on.
The most active thread was the initial discussion about the T20 incident.
Historically besides T20 only the Cap/Carrier discussion, and the still ongoing Speed Nerf controversy ever resulted in simliar strong reaction. Yet all these discussions showed a much less unified opinion of the playerbase and had only ingame relevance without any impact on the RL finances of the customers.
EVE Information Portal - Ranking of Threads with more than 1000 Posts since 2006.12.05 Rank Posts Views Subject 15095 398307 T20 http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=526462 24740 181874 Ghost http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=channel&channelID=3512 3 4264 182390 Speed http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=831524 43275 132208 Caps http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=618279 53155 230486 T20 http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=473335 62352 128569 Empyrean 1.1 http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=858181 71747 66877 NOS http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=566234 81468 76411 Ghost http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=896003 91458 73945 Contest http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=484879 101377 97130 IA http://myeve.eve-online.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&bid=472 111286 46398 Anniversary http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=530423 121113 50249 Carrier http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=channel&channelID=3512&page=6 13 1021 51407 Amarr http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=694381
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IR Scoutar
Caldari State War Academy
|
Posted - 2008.10.21 19:01:00 -
[4769]
Originally by: CCP Torfi's interview
http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/14/feature/2349/Ghost-Training-Interview
I must say for the most part this is very carefuly worded
Originally by: interview
ôWhen we originally programmed the training system, it was an oversight on our part not to put in the text to see whether the account was active or inactive back in 2003. We have patched a lot of issues since then and this particular issue wasnÆt addressed because it wasnÆt considered that seriousà It never got bumped up our list of bugs because not too many people were making use of it. It wasnÆt really on our radar.ö
That of course is ether a flaming pile of BS or an admitance to very bad game design knowledge or comon sense realy
Originally by: Interview
ôA couple of weeks ago, we were doing some research on our database and running some queries as we do frequentlyà and we noted a big rise in......etcblablabla...
cause and effect realy (i hope i dont need to explain) while yes some people use that feature more in a way of an exploit its people that often have multiple accounts already
Originally by: Interview
People were using Ghost Training to advance their characters without paying a subscription. So, they were building fairly strong characters without paying a subscription. Which, to be honest, didnÆt seem fair.ö
There is still so much a character can do without paying for the game... Also calling it bad for other players seems a weak point at best
Originally by: Interview
ôIt was a general oversight on our part,ö Torfi admitted. He went on to remind me about the companyÆs origins as a smaller company. ôBack in 2004,ö he said, ôwe were a company of 40 doing what companies of 80 or 120 were doingà.....blablabla....
That is something hardly anybody will argue about. Yeah stuff like that can happen What cant happen is that multiple people from ccp call it a feature aswell and then you turn arround and call it a bug...
Originally by: Interview
...eve china blablabla... ôAt the time,ö Torfi explained, ôwe had not introduced EVE time codes. Everyone was using credit card subscriptions so it was more of an effort to un-subscribe and re-subscribe than it is today. ThatÆs why it wasnÆt such a common play style back then.ö
hmm actualy i have no clue when exactly codes where introduced i must admit but here is a fun question that "at the time unimportant "bug" " was fixed ... and you erm didnt deploy it to TQ even thou the "old devs" considered it a "bug" i... i... im allmost lost for words all i can say is a big whooping great WTF
in short a carefuly worded interview that can be picked appart completly if you read it twice and have more than 4 brain cells engaged in cognitive abilities
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Squirrrel
Gallente Squirrrel Industries
|
Posted - 2008.10.21 19:14:00 -
[4770]
Edited by: Squirrrel on 21/10/2008 19:14:58
Originally by: Davina Braben Interview with Torfri: http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/14/feature/2349/Ghost-Training-Interview
CCP need to gag this guy right now. Seriously, what is reported to be said in this interview is nothing short of trying to spin the fact it's all about money for CCP.
Cleverly worded? Well it tries to be. Don't give up the day job Torfri...
Edit: I'm actually even angrier about the whole deal now, BECAUSE of this interview.
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h zebra
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Posted - 2008.10.21 20:01:00 -
[4771]
Quote: ôI truly hope that people still realize that weÆre just gamers like them, trying to make a game and making a living off of it. It was not out of pure money, greed or lust that we did this.
no wasnt out of pure money, greed or lust...
well ok maybe not lust.
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Mel Kory
|
Posted - 2008.10.21 20:02:00 -
[4772]
Basically speaking, it is clear. I have canceleld subscription on one account already. I'll do the same with this account too. I've launched eve client only once last week. The game where developers are not fair enough say "we need more money to hire more ppl and make a better game for our players" but prefer to resort to dirty tricks like silently changing website and remove one of the major features from game. Well. It is not about money. If CCP would ask about money i'll gladly pay even if subscribtion price would be increased two times. It is about trust. I've lost something called "sense of trust and justice to CCP." I'm feeling myself being cheated and this thing dissapoint me. May be i'll miss this game and return in future, when my feeling will change, but i'm not sure. Trus is easy to lose and hard to get back.
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deathlords
|
Posted - 2008.10.21 20:06:00 -
[4773]
Originally by: Richard Aiel for all the "i quit screw you" and "-x accounts" posts I have yet to see the affect on the online numbers in coldfront looks like ppl are screaming about leaving on forums and then playing behind the forums back lol
Not all accounts expire *now*. People will simply not renew some of their accounts. I know a few that are not renewing (Novemberish) or will cancel some of their extra accounts and just have 1.
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Tarasios
Caldari Hegemon Enterprises
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Posted - 2008.10.21 20:39:00 -
[4774]
Edited by: Tarasios on 21/10/2008 20:42:20 I heard a report on BusinessWeek where they interviewed EVE Online's Economist. (I would probably misspell his name if I tried).
He quoted that there are around 250,000 subscribers to EveOnline. Assuming that they are all yearly accounts, (which we know is obvously not the case, many people are paying more than that), it's an easy calculation to see how much money they get every year... Even if you factor in the possibility that only 75% of players are actually paying, (others are paying with isk), you come to the realization that CCP is making a buttload of money off of this game and it's only growing more popular. I don't really understand how crippling players' abilities to pay with isk is a good thing for the gamers. Maybe we'll see a few positive effects in the economy, but for me it's obvious that it's nothing more than a push for fatter wallets.
(FYI: Figures come out to $24,637,500.00 a year USD at 187,500 [75% of total subscribers] 12-month subscriptions. Or $2,053,125.00 USD a month.)
I don't think there's a huge lack of cash flow there. Even with the world economy in limbo. I hope they make excellent use of the extra money they bring in, because one of the chief incentives for me playing this game was that I could get to a point where I would not have to pay to play. That in itself would've been a great payoff for an otherwise useless pastime.
[EDIT: Typo]
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Tarasios Hon-Jiro of the Achur Proctor of Hegemon Ent. as CEO of (OaTh)
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kan han
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.10.21 20:56:00 -
[4775]
Edited by: kan han on 21/10/2008 20:56:41 [TYPO]
Well, yeah, I especially love the money they burn in the markets.
Some official numbers: There are 230.000 Subscribers (In the Interview 10k might be added because of being unsubscribed accounts in "ghost" training, so I think it is adviseable to take everything on top of 230k as being "ghost subscribers" :). Now for the real "burn my hurry cash baby"-juice:
Quote:
Balance Sheet Assets At year end 2007 CCP’s total assets amounted to USD 47,295,214, compared with USD 18,076,407 at year end 2006, an increase of USD 29,218,807, or 262%, since the beginning of the year. The increase is explained in part by the bank note with Kaupthing. The proceeds from the bank note were mostly invested in market securi- ties.
As you can see, they let Kaupthing burn a big part of their assests in the markets. And if it isn't already burned, they might have problems to get it back. But, hmm, as CCP said, they stand out of the mass and are not affected by the crisis.
They have 40 people working for 120 and a worlds financial crisis just passes the door while the house bank crashes ... bla bla bla ...
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Arty McArt
|
Posted - 2008.10.21 21:01:00 -
[4776]
Edited by: Arty McArt on 21/10/2008 21:05:24 Just canceled my second account (being this one) gave as the reason for quiting
Removel of ghost training and not being straight about what the reasons behind it were or any communication. It's not that I care about losing ghost training at all as I just paid for 6 months but all the lies made me lose trust.
so -1
edit: This is really just to send a message to CCP hope more people will do that just to send the message.
edit: I see they finaly found the unhide button for this thread and it's on the forums main page again.
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Nadarius Chrome
Celestial Horizon Corp. Celestial Industrial Alliance
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Posted - 2008.10.21 21:02:00 -
[4777]
Originally by: Komillia Jenius I just started and wondered what this Ghost was. Training was long. Seeing how expensive this game is to play, with other MMO's out there, my 14-day trial would probably be it.
Nice try, if it wasn't for the fact that trial accounts can't post. EG, you paid.
Originally by: Tarasios Even if you factor in the possibility that only 75% of players are actually paying, (others are paying with isk)....
It's been stated before, but GTC's paid for with ISK are still bought by players for "real" money first. Hence, 100% of active accounts are paid for, if not necessarily by their owners.
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Dirk Bond
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Posted - 2008.10.21 21:44:00 -
[4778]
That interview makes it worse... An apology to the playerbase would make it better.
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Jinx Barker
GFB Scientific
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Posted - 2008.10.21 21:51:00 -
[4779]
Basically what most proponents of "fairness" and CCP try hard to ignore is this:
1) "Ghost Training" was never called "Ghost Training" - it is a CCP invented moniker to make it sound little "evil" - as others pointed before. The feature was intrinsic part of the game, and was touted as such.
2) The "effects on [their] database" is a pure fiction, and we all know it.
3) CCP is tried to cover it up by massive release of new Expansion news, Dev Blogs, and articles - never happened before in history of CCP.
4) The spin campaign is NOT WORKING, you guys at CCP are only making most players madder with your continuous lying.
5) And, finally, the most important part: Since DB impact is completely fictitious, combine it with the fact that one has to RE-SUBSCRIBE TO EVE, thus pay for the occurred training, this whole thing is clearly a disgrace - and so far Torfi has done more harm than good with his spin.
I want to see how this plays out 6 months from now.
::::Click The Signature For the Blog::::
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Rektide
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Posted - 2008.10.21 21:55:00 -
[4780]
"As the recent news stated, we will disable the ability to train skills on a suspended account. Since this has caused a lot of debate we've decided to explain why we are making this change in a new Dev Blog by t0rfifrans: Why ghost training was disabled." - ccp wrangler
more disingenuous bs propoganda about this being a "bug"... one that has been discussed ad. infinitum on the forums as a feature, one documented on the website as a feature.....
salt in the wounds my disingenuous friends, salt in the wounds.
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Boomer Aires
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Posted - 2008.10.21 22:08:00 -
[4781]
First of all:
Ohhh, damn...wait... my pre-paid mobile run out of credit...
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Mia Aires
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Posted - 2008.10.21 22:08:00 -
[4782]
Wait Boomer Aires - np I can give you a "ghost call" since your mobile company isn't CCP.
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Gunnanmon
Gallente UNITED STAR SYNDICATE
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Posted - 2008.10.21 22:10:00 -
[4783]
:-| The Ghost-training vote thread |
Baal Aristaeus
Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2008.10.21 22:24:00 -
[4784]
All I can say is "BooO"...
I will not renew my 2nd account once it runs out, that's for sure!
Way to go CCP, lost another 12-or-so bucks of revenue a month!
/B
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Chani Fedaykin
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Posted - 2008.10.21 22:41:00 -
[4785]
if ALL 'ghost' features (erm sorry - bugs) are removed TOGETHER - fine.
as long as others stay - there is absolutely NO real argument why training should be changed.
besides give a real valid reason that an intelligent person can believe if you do so. i have no problem at all, if you just state, that ccp came to the conclusion that unpaid 'activities' (if that term is even applicable) should not be possible - thats a valid reason, which i can accept (even if i still think that removing 'ghost' training is not the smartest move).
too bad that 'fixing' the other ghost features involve more work ...what happens to a ghost ceo? ...what happens to ghost orders? ...what happens to ghost jobs (manufacturing/invention/research)? ...ghost rp are 'easy', but have never been mentioned by ccp ...evemail to a ghost? ...sending money to a ghost? ...even looking up a ghost using peoples & places? does a ghost exist in the eve universe? :P
more to come in ambulation :P ...ghost bar ownership? ...ghost whatever i am sure there will be other features that will be prone to ghosting, because until recently it was no 'official' bug - and i doubt that the programmers that thought it was a bug long ago told the new ones of it :P
jmo - but until you are able to target all ghost features, dont remove the one that is most likely the most usefull for your cashflow :P |
Vala Covan
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Posted - 2008.10.21 23:54:00 -
[4786]
Over 6000 post .....Pls. forgive me as i only poses rudimentary Mathematical skills......I have 2 acct. and pay***14.95***per month = 14.95*2=29.90 a month....completely and in no way related to my accounts I buy a 60 day GTC for 34.95 real money and sell it for isk to an other player.......so all ive done is not only payed for my acct. but also payed for another players acct. so where is the unfairness ccp is talking about and the OMG we can not sustain this......
$29.90=for my 2 acct.{per.1 month}ME -34.95 GTC for 60 days can only be used on 1 acct.??? 60D/2=30D I THINK 34.95/2=17.475 per 30ds CCP STILL GETS THERE 14.95 a month sub. FEE
THE RETAILER= 29.90-34.95=$5.05 AHHHH DID I CARRY THE 1 OVER RETAILER MUST SELL IN BULK TO MONEY BUT ALL IN ALL EVERYONE IS HAPPY WHY SHOULD CCP CARE WHERE TH MONEY COMES FROM BESIDE THE 14DAY TRIAL U CANT USE AN ACCT. THATS NOT PAYED FOR yes,no,maybe no ????
CCP U HAVE MADE IT VERY CLEAR ON FORUMS,NEWS CLIPS AND EVEN ON UR VERY OWN QEN_Q1-2008.EVE IS GROWING AND WILL CONTINEW TO GET STRONGER EVE HAS A DEFINET BASE OF 230,000 PAYED ACCTS ILL MAKE 200,000 * $15 A MONTH=???? ALOT...BESIDE ALL THIS I FEEL U HAVE FAR MORE PRESSING ISSUES TO ATEN TO SO STOP THIS MADNESS OF WHO IS PAYING YOU...AND LET US ALL KNOW WHENE CAN WE BECOME JOVIANS
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James Britanicus
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.10.22 00:17:00 -
[4787]
Will sell my alt and unsub that account, might unsub the main as well - i haven't even ghost trained on these accounts for the last year, been paying every month and logging in rarely due to heavy work load. From being banned first -> asked questions later to total lack of honesty with player base... can't really see me staying here much longer.
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EvilSyKOSkitzo
Durus Scelus
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Posted - 2008.10.22 00:21:00 -
[4788]
Originally by: Interview
People were using Ghost Training to advance their characters without paying a subscription. So, they were building fairly strong characters without paying a subscription. Which, to be honest, didnÆt seem fair.ö
Ok ok, can someone please clarify something for me? I might be loosing it tbh.
Let's say I have an unsubscribed account, that I want to reactivate it using a GTC, bought via isk to change a skill.
Doesn't someone have to buy the GTC with "real money" at some point to make it available for me? Or, have all these GTCs been appearing out of thin air?
Not considering all the other issues surrounding GTCs for the moment.
If someone has to pay for a GTC with "real money". Doesn't this create CCP money? If so, hasn't someone at CCP actually considered this?
Oh, out of those 10,000 lost accounts. Three of them where mine. Never actually used any GTCs with any of those accounts. Never ghost trained any of the accounts. I actually kept them running while I was away for long periods of time on Army exercise.
In any case though, whats an extra $44.85 a month to CCP anyways?
Expires: 11. November 2008 - Total Charges - 52 Expires: 06. November 2008 - Total Charges - 36 Expires: 02. November 2008 - Total Charges - 47
I have one account left open. **** me off again CCP and I'll make sure to fix the bug on the last one as well.
- Evil
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EvilSyKOSkitzo
Durus Scelus
|
Posted - 2008.10.22 00:27:00 -
[4789]
Edited by: EvilSyKOSkitzo on 22/10/2008 00:28:14
Originally by: Vala Covan Over 6000 post .....Pls. forgive me as i only poses rudimentary Mathematical skills......I have 2 acct. and pay***14.95***per month = 14.95*2=29.90 a month....completely and in no way related to my accounts I buy a 60 day GTC for 34.95 real money and sell it for isk to an other player.......so all ive done is not only payed for my acct. but also payed for another players acct. so where is the unfairness ccp is talking about and the OMG we can not sustain this......
$29.90=for my 2 acct.{per.1 month}ME -34.95 GTC for 60 days can only be used on 1 acct.??? 60D/2=30D I THINK 34.95/2=17.475 per 30ds CCP STILL GETS THERE 14.95 a month sub. FEE
THE RETAILER= 29.90-34.95=$5.05 AHHHH DID I CARRY THE 1 OVER RETAILER MUST SELL IN BULK TO MONEY BUT ALL IN ALL EVERYONE IS HAPPY WHY SHOULD CCP CARE WHERE TH MONEY COMES FROM BESIDE THE 14DAY TRIAL U CANT USE AN ACCT. THATS NOT PAYED FOR yes,no,maybe no ????
CCP U HAVE MADE IT VERY CLEAR ON FORUMS,NEWS CLIPS AND EVEN ON UR VERY OWN QEN_Q1-2008.EVE IS GROWING AND WILL CONTINEW TO GET STRONGER EVE HAS A DEFINET BASE OF 230,000 PAYED ACCTS ILL MAKE 200,000 * $15 A MONTH=???? ALOT...BESIDE ALL THIS I FEEL U HAVE FAR MORE PRESSING ISSUES TO ATEN TO SO STOP THIS MADNESS OF WHO IS PAYING YOU...AND LET US ALL KNOW WHENE CAN WE BECOME JOVIANS
Thats what I don't get mate. Buy GTC for real money. Sell for isk. CCP still profits. Why the bs?
- Evil
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Xeronn
Amarr Ordo Drakonis Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2008.10.22 00:30:00 -
[4790]
they just keep spiting in my face!
come on guys just 159 pages? not that thwy would react or anything but lets get this to 300 maybe we`ll get another comedy blog or interview from some f ****tard CCP PR making even more of an ass out of himmself and trashing CCP`s name further
cant get on that interview linlk , anyone got a screenie or sumthin?
.bump bump this in general pls
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Keiretsu Destroyer
Amarr Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2008.10.22 00:32:00 -
[4791]
Edited by: Keiretsu Destroyer on 22/10/2008 00:33:16
Originally by: Chani Fedaykin
...sending money to a ghost?
easy there, cowboy this would make paying with ISK impossible for inactive (or just expired) accounts that don't have enough ISK in wallet at the moment. now THAT would make a lot more people angry than ghost training nerf.
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tartan pixie
Minmatar Pixie Cats
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Posted - 2008.10.22 01:08:00 -
[4792]
Could someone who knows more about databases than i do explain how adding more than a start/finish time to skill training reduces impact on the server?? I suspect the reason ghost trading, manufacturing, etc are being left in is that it would create too much work for the devs to take them out.
Unless of course they mean to reduce the server load by reducing the number of paid accounts, mmm yeah that must be it.
The name Gerald Ratner springs to mind.
------------------------------------------------ No your honour my defence is that the pixies did it in the middle of the night. Prove me wrong. |
dark slanesh
|
Posted - 2008.10.22 01:20:00 -
[4793]
Has Alastair Campbell or Peter Mandelson joined the staff of CCP recently? Next we'll be told that the ghosts are hiding WMD in the desert and could attack the servers with only 45 minutes notice.
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Pupp3tMaster
|
Posted - 2008.10.22 02:21:00 -
[4794]
Originally by: Avon Edited by: Avon on 13/10/2008 23:33:51 Edited by: Avon on 13/10/2008 23:22:50 I don't mind this change at all as my accounts have always been active, but...
..you'd better be real quick cleaning out the forums of historical CCP posts about this "feature" as it was, before you try to make out it is now a "bug".
Added from my later post: Hey, your bug...
Skills continue training even if you are logged off or if your account is inactive
I found it in the player guide.
You guys better get in there and ninja-edit it.
Already ninja-edited, ccp is truly run by spineless *****s.
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Carsidava
Ars ex Discordia GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.10.22 02:41:00 -
[4795]
I don't know if this question has been asked or answered...
If my account goes inactive while a skill is training, does that skill automatically start training once I re-subscribe? |
Gunnanmon
Gallente UNITED STAR SYNDICATE
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Posted - 2008.10.22 02:45:00 -
[4796]
Originally by: Carsidava I don't know if this question has been asked or answered...
If my account goes inactive while a skill is training, does that skill automatically start training once I re-subscribe?
No. The Ghost-training vote thread |
Hot Cake
|
Posted - 2008.10.22 03:15:00 -
[4797]
yet some more "Epic lies"
Eve Online jumps the shark?
"Apparently people are now unsubscribing so fast that the company that handles billing have had a server breakdown"
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Nytemaster
The Perfect Storm The Red Skull
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Posted - 2008.10.22 03:37:00 -
[4798]
Edited by: Nytemaster on 22/10/2008 03:38:31 I would like a refund for all times I was not training skills please. It was also a reason I could run two-three accounts and not mind one lapsing a bit behind a few days.
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Janeve Colhoon
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Posted - 2008.10.22 03:37:00 -
[4799]
Edited by: Janeve Colhoon on 22/10/2008 03:40:08 Edited by: Janeve Colhoon on 22/10/2008 03:38:21 I am proud to report that I will now be saving 15 dollars a month for not playing a game that has demonstrated in the past few months a real lack of professionalism while taking us for idiots. I dont think they realize that the people who play this game are not the teenie boppers of WoW and will not constantly stick around while not producing. In my eyes some of the mishaps in recent times:
1)The new GTCs - why ruin a good thing?
2)Attempting to fix a nanonerf while breaking the rest of the game (most hacs, blasterboats, battleships, etc)
3)Conducts Live Dev Blogs that only answer a strictly scripted set of questions while avoiding the tough questions that is quite apparent that most of the community wants answers for
4)Last second change to a game FEATURE (aka ghost training) while spinning it as a 5 year bug. (Hint CCP: It does not matter how many times you can claim it to be a bug, we all know the truth)
5)Making changes to their own documentation at the last minute to go along with 4)
6)The last expansion, a 39mb expansion? Are you kidding me? Most games have content patches every few months that are 20x the size of with actual game changing features that everyone can enjoy
7)the upcoming expansion, I see a similiar occurrence as the last expansion while what was promised to us (Ambulation) is pushed back yet again.
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Richard Aiel
Caldari Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2008.10.22 04:03:00 -
[4800]
Next: theyll remove the ability to pay for game time cards with in game currency because its unfair to new players
------------------------------------------------ CCP you are your own worst enemy. http://eve.coldfront.net/status/tranquility look at that |
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IR Scoutar
Caldari State War Academy
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Posted - 2008.10.22 04:18:00 -
[4801]
Originally by: Richard Aiel Next: theyll remove the ability to pay for game time cards with in game currency because its unfair to new players
why they can sell gtc's and then buy gtc's with the isk they now have
or something
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Richard Aiel
Caldari Caldari Provisions
|
Posted - 2008.10.22 04:21:00 -
[4802]
Originally by: IR Scoutar
Originally by: Richard Aiel Next: theyll remove the ability to pay for game time cards with in game currency because its unfair to new players
why they can sell gtc's and then buy gtc's with the isk they now have
or something
but thats like saying it really was unfair to let "ghost training" remain lol ------------------------------------------------ CCP you are your own worst enemy. http://eve.coldfront.net/status/tranquility look at that |
Loyal Servant
Caldari PURE Legion Pure.
|
Posted - 2008.10.22 05:26:00 -
[4803]
Interview fails. Now, I know damned well I won't come back when this account drops in 2 days.
It really is a shame to screw people over in so many ways with GTC changes, nerfs, and finally lies about why they were done.
Torfi or whatever your name is... I make more money than you, I know that for a fact. But, you will never from this day forth get any of it. I know I can spin PR better than you and I do not do PR, so... I DO NOT TRY TO DO PR! I don't do brain surgery either! Do you put your hand in a fire, find out it hurts then do it again? Sounds like something you might do.... you have a head full of bad wiring my friend.
So, some free business advice... I work for a company with LESS employees than CCP. My company has double the revenue of CCP, probably even triple. Why? We do not lie to our clients!
Now, you guys tried to remove this a few years ago and the backlash was terrible.. and you backed off. Recently at work we discovered that clients were not getting a charge they should have been getting. It was not a big charge but for some reason due to *GASP* PROGRAMMING ERRORS they were not getting this charge.
We had 2 choices, like you..... 1. Start charging it 2. Forget it.
Now, we thought it over and discussed it and decided that .. my god we would **** off some clients and with the times the way they are decided NOT to **** off clients!
Admittedly, none of us know if CCP is hiding any other demons in the closet. I find it hard to believe that in something as simple as your billing operations that you have any skeletons rattling around in there.... but it is possible...
Torfi... sometimes you have to eat it. Business is like that. You clearly missed that part of class, I think. Ok, you screwed up.. but when you compound screwup into more screwup into flat out mental ******ation someone needs to really, really shut you up.
Your service is a luxury, something many people are finding out they can no longer afford and coupled with lies, omissions, stealth forum editing... My friend, torfi, you look like a real jerk and when you are looking for a job anywhere else PRAY TO GOD they do not find this in Google's cache someplace! OR - are you going to pay Google to remove this from their cache? If I ever saw a guy with your name in a stack of job applications I might just have to 'lose' that one, sorry buddy.
Take my advice... send someone else out to the floor that has some sense to clean up after you. Go home to your wife or sister or whatever you have at home and ... pray your employed this time next year. -LS
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Lord Fitz
Project Amargosa
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Posted - 2008.10.22 05:46:00 -
[4804]
"someone who was not knowledgeable about the code itself"
I'm glad we got rid of all those people, and don't let them do things like, I dunno, write Dev blogs and give interviews anymore.
Originally by: CCP t0rfifrans CCP is a greedy money chewing monster
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HuntedMaster
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Posted - 2008.10.22 05:50:00 -
[4805]
Originally by: Lord Fitz "someone who was not knowledgeable about the code itself"
I'm glad we got rid of all those people, and don't let them do things like, I dunno, write Dev blogs and give interviews anymore.
everytime i read some more ccp babble my eyes roll...
STOP THE MADNESS CCP YOUR ARE CAUSING ME EYE STRAIN.
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Lord Fitz
Project Amargosa
|
Posted - 2008.10.22 05:52:00 -
[4806]
Originally by: Tarasios He quoted that there are around 250,000 subscribers to EveOnline. Assuming that they are all yearly accounts, (which we know is obvously not the case, many people are paying more than that), it's an easy calculation to see how much money they get every year... Even if you factor in the possibility that only 75% of players are actually paying, (others are paying with isk),
CCP doesn't accept ingame ISK as payment for an account. CCP only accepts USD or Euros. Those paying with ingame ISK have OTHER PEOPLE paying the USD to CCP for them instead. More USD than CCP would be getting if they paid via CC.
Originally by: CCP t0rfifrans CCP is a greedy money chewing monster
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Chani Fedaykin
|
Posted - 2008.10.22 05:56:00 -
[4807]
Originally by: Keiretsu Destroyer
Originally by: Chani Fedaykin ...sending money to a ghost?
easy there, cowboy this would make paying with ISK impossible for inactive (or just expired) accounts that don't have enough ISK in wallet at the moment. now THAT would make a lot more people angry than ghost training nerf.
i was going over the top intentionally :)
...however its still something related to an unpaid account ^^ ccp COULD still argument that you need an active/paid account to be able to pay by isk ... and i am not going to say - nor did i ever say, that it would be a good move :P |
Tivookz
Caldari IMPERIAL SENATE Pure.
|
Posted - 2008.10.22 06:49:00 -
[4808]
Edited by: Tivookz on 22/10/2008 06:50:49
Originally by: T0rfifrans but I honestly canÆt think of any other company that allows you to skill up your character when youÆre not even paying for it.
Maybe not, but what other game takes 20++ years to level up fully?
Skilltraining is already bad as it is, I started playing in 2004 and I still haven't gotten the skills I want to have at lvl 5 to lvl 5.
Removing ghosttraining will only enhance the gap between new players and old players and also aggrivate the old players who are frustrated about the time it takes to skill up say dreadnought lvl 5?
Tiv
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ChemicalX
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Posted - 2008.10.22 06:49:00 -
[4809]
Here's a scary thought... since it's unfair towards the PLAYERS... *shudder* the next thing you're going to get is that you only train when you're actually................ ONLINE!!!!!!!!
Oh wait... the subs paid whether you're playing or not... so no chance that it will actually happen...
Fairness towards the players? B*U*L*L*S*H*I*T*!
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DorXtar
The Hull Miners Union
|
Posted - 2008.10.22 07:18:00 -
[4810]
What if all the ****ed off vets start paying their accounts with isk to offset the added cost of subscription fees? That probably won't mean much to CCP, since rich newbies that can afford to buy isk will foot the bill. ________________________________ It never hurts to help! |
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kan han
Gallente
|
Posted - 2008.10.22 07:23:00 -
[4811]
Edited by: kan han on 22/10/2008 07:25:34 [Edit: Typo]
The more I think about this, the bigger the desaster gets for CCP. They just made a mistake and are not willing to deal with it. I've never seen something compareable in the last years. CCP is a Software Company on a user based payment model. Even thought most of the mistakes reveal to be on the communication side, I am pretty shure that there must be something bigger in the back:
- About 40% loss in sales even before October 15th.
- Accodring to the 2008 Report about 16 Million US-$ were invested in Stocks. It might be even more at the time of the Crash. That was 34% of the Companies Assets.
- CCP just increased their Expenses A LOT last year. They doubled the workforce.
- Since March the number of Subscriptions does not rise any longer.
Then talking plain BS all the time... You never know what happens next.
I stick with my 15/15 Formula: Take back the changes in Skilling from October 15th and reduce the End-User Game-Time Prices by 15%.
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Seth Vorlar
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Posted - 2008.10.22 08:24:00 -
[4812]
Originally by: Loyal Servant Interview fails. Now, I know damned well I won't come back when this account drops in 2 days.
It really is a shame to screw people over in so many ways with GTC changes, nerfs, and finally lies about why they were done.
Torfi or whatever your name is... I make more money than you, I know that for a fact. But, you will never from this day forth get any of it. I know I can spin PR better than you and I do not do PR, so... I DO NOT TRY TO DO PR! I don't do brain surgery either! Do you put your hand in a fire, find out it hurts then do it again? Sounds like something you might do.... you have a head full of bad wiring my friend.
So, some free business advice... I work for a company with LESS employees than CCP. My company has double the revenue of CCP, probably even triple. Why? We do not lie to our clients!
Now, you guys tried to remove this a few years ago and the backlash was terrible.. and you backed off. Recently at work we discovered that clients were not getting a charge they should have been getting. It was not a big charge but for some reason due to *GASP* PROGRAMMING ERRORS they were not getting this charge.
We had 2 choices, like you..... 1. Start charging it 2. Forget it.
Now, we thought it over and discussed it and decided that .. my god we would **** off some clients and with the times the way they are decided NOT to **** off clients!
Admittedly, none of us know if CCP is hiding any other demons in the closet. I find it hard to believe that in something as simple as your billing operations that you have any skeletons rattling around in there.... but it is possible...
Torfi... sometimes you have to eat it. Business is like that. You clearly missed that part of class, I think. Ok, you screwed up.. but when you compound screwup into more screwup into flat out mental ******ation someone needs to really, really shut you up.
Your service is a luxury, something many people are finding out they can no longer afford and coupled with lies, omissions, stealth forum editing... My friend, torfi, you look like a real jerk and when you are looking for a job anywhere else PRAY TO GOD they do not find this in Google's cache someplace! OR - are you going to pay Google to remove this from their cache? If I ever saw a guy with your name in a stack of job applications I might just have to 'lose' that one, sorry buddy.
Take my advice... send someone else out to the floor that has some sense to clean up after you. Go home to your wife or sister or whatever you have at home and ... pray your employed this time next year. -LS
QFT Torfi.... you should print this an stick it behind your bathmirror.
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PsiStorm
|
Posted - 2008.10.22 09:02:00 -
[4813]
I work for a development company, it's not as big as CCP in terms of employees but we are close to par as far as revenue goes. We run much the same model as CCP, we have a server farm comprising many blade servers and we too run 2 RAMSAN DB Servers. We host our clients databases on our servers and we develop most of our software systems in house.
One of our systems is a very advanced auditing system which allows clients to audit their assets (tables, chairs, aircons, vehicles, etc) on a periodic basis. Some of our clients make use of our servers 24/7 while others make use of our auditing systems once in 3 months and some as little as once in 6 months.
When clients cancel their "subs" their db's go into stasis. The ONLY thing we do is lock the ability to log into the systems. We allow their backups to run, their automated procedures, their mailing systems, their intervaces etc. All these things take up a % of the resources from the servers. We once had a meeting as to whether we should detach the db's whenever the subs weren't being paid and the common concensus was? NO. Why? because in our case, 100% of our dormant clients reactivated their accounts each time they needed to do an audit and some even went on to purchase more modules and become 24/7 subscribers.
what's this got to do with EVE? EVERYTHING. Our servers are working whether the clients db is active or dormant. We're chewing resources and we constantly add more hardware even when clients are dormant. WHY? BECAUSE IT'S GOOD BUSINESS PRACTICE! Not only that, but in light of the recent challenges facting the world, we sent out a letter to each client stating that we have frozen our pricing for the next twelve months to ensure that clients didn't receive anymore bad news in light of everything else going up. Why would we be so stupid? Simple, a). We make more money than we're spending, b). we're not greedy, c). we actually care.
Now what are the results of our business practices compared to CCP's? Well, CCP is loosing clients and we've just signed on two new corporate clients as a direct result of our practice. Word of mouth is such a powerful thing.
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Di Katana
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Posted - 2008.10.22 09:16:00 -
[4814]
Originally by: PsiStorm Now what are the results of our business practices compared to CCP's? Well, CCP is loosing clients and we've just signed on two new corporate clients as a direct result of our practice. Word of mouth is such a powerful thing.
QFT. Loosing clients is never a good thing, loosing clients during a worldwide resession is just plain stupid.
Is EVE an amazing one of a kind game? SURE IS Do we want to leave EVE? SURE AS HELL NOT Do we want to see EVE die? DEFINATELY NOT Do we NEED to make CCP feel the hurt? MOST CERTAINLY Do CCP listen to their CLIENTS? HELL NO How do you make a company like CCP listen? WITH YOUR WALLET PPL!
If my 17 year old son can make a stand for what he believes in, surely everyone else can do the same?
Make a stand against CCP today and show them that greed never pays
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Gunnanmon
Gallente UNITED STAR SYNDICATE
|
Posted - 2008.10.22 09:46:00 -
[4815]
This account expires tomorrow, so tomorrow I'll move this alt to one of my other active accouts.
Then they have 3 weeks to reverse this diabolical decision, cos once I've moved a lot of my alts to a few active accounts, there's no going back. I wont be coughing up once/if they change it after that.
The clock's ticking, fools. The Ghost-training vote thread |
Dirk Bond
|
Posted - 2008.10.22 10:24:00 -
[4816]
I feel really stupid, I put about 120 days on my account the other week... Had this come up first I'd be back to playing LOTRO or I'd have jumped over to WAR.
Cheerfully Cheap Productions won't be getting any further subs from me unless they make satisfactory ammends, either in the introduction of one the many ideas put forward by the EVE community, or in re-activating the very feature that began this whole thing.
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Tivookz
Caldari IMPERIAL SENATE Pure.
|
Posted - 2008.10.22 10:40:00 -
[4817]
Edited by: Tivookz on 22/10/2008 10:42:54 T0rfifrans is a jackass because only a jackass could come up with an idea like this.
Lets face it, if we allow this to happen then we are basically allowing them to remove the following features in the future: sell orders, pos stuff, contracts, research, manufacturing etc ) so thats why it's important that we say no to this right away.
Like someone stated earlier 10000 clients is around 4% of all subscribers in EVE.
Thats the number of people of this so called "surge" of people that triggered the decision to remove ghost training.
Those 4% would have probably taken a break from EVE anyway, not to mention many of those 4% probably went off to try Warhammer online.
It's not all black and white Torfifool and you're going to lose so much more if you don't revoke this change.
Tiv
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Deimus
Gallente CAD Inc. Executive Outcomes
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Posted - 2008.10.22 10:42:00 -
[4818]
I just logged in to add another three snowflakes on the pile.
They'll feel the burn 3 months or so from now when the GTCs and subscriptions have expired.
Nice way to start the Year 2009, isn't it?
Need Ice for that burn?
Oh I forgot you have a whole pile of snowflakes, why don't you use that?
-1 Main / -2 Alts - Main Sub ends this Thursday / Alts have already ended
+$45.00 in my Bank Account every month =D.
Have fun eating yellow snow.
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Arturek Ziolko
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Posted - 2008.10.22 10:51:00 -
[4819]
Edited by: Arturek Ziolko on 22/10/2008 10:51:58
Bug? a 5 years old bug?
it's called PROGRAMMING!!! you laying sh11theads!
realy, i dont give a damn about that change, never used it, but lying straight into your customers faces is just nuts. you think that only isk farmers and noobs still play this game? there is still a few of us left who remember old, good times of eve.
...sh11theads and liers!
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RaTTuS
BIG Libertas Fidelitas
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Posted - 2008.10.22 10:57:00 -
[4820]
Originally by: Dirk Bond I feel really stupid, I put about 120 days on my account the other week... Had this come up first I'd be back to playing LOTRO or I'd have jumped over to WAR. .
why stupid ? you have 120days of training to do -
-- BIG Lottery, BIG Deal, InEve
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Parasite S
Death Monkey's With Knives
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Posted - 2008.10.22 11:17:00 -
[4821]
Edited by: Parasite S on 22/10/2008 11:18:06
Originally by: Hot Cake yet some more "Epic lies"
Eve Online jumps the shark?
"Apparently people are now unsubscribing so fast that the company that handles billing have had a server breakdown"
hehe well the first link is a good read *Except from the ccp propaganda*... but what really catched my eye was:
"WeÆve got an expansion coming out called Quantum Rising and weÆll be making an announcement at Fanfest regarding stuff thatÆs coming very soon in the future which hopefully will make our players come back in big numbers because weÆre putting things into the game that a lot of people have been waiting for for a long time.ö"
yeah and how long time does it take us to train for it? like a year again just as flying a blackops? time is the reason all this loss is about *and i really need to hold back by now not to insert insults*.
the players you make leave and stop training now will RARELY have the basic stats to instantly or some weeks from now even fly those ships thanks to your precious nerf.... but how long since you plaied your own game?
as i said before...i remember an announcement where you wanted as much people as possible on a certain time on the testserver to get a feeling of lag and such stuff..... and even at that time there were massive fleetbattles and desynch and nodecrash. but since you allready dont take accountment for years for losses and failurs on serverside and exspecialy YOURS! and instead prefer to blame it on the client.... well... i am really intrested in how much people are going to get to enjoy those "new" *and probably again huge lag and desynch causing* features. --------------- DON'T troll me |
Dirk Bond
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Posted - 2008.10.22 11:47:00 -
[4822]
Edited by: Dirk Bond on 22/10/2008 11:55:12 Edited by: Dirk Bond on 22/10/2008 11:53:09
Originally by: RaTTuS
Originally by: Dirk Bond I feel really stupid, I put about 120 days on my account the other week... Had this come up first I'd be back to playing LOTRO or I'd have jumped over to WAR. .
why stupid ? you have 120days of training to do -
Because I hate to have given money to a company that lies about fairness, in that they have now created a new injustice as newer players who have not yet trained those mammoth skills will have to literally pay for each one, as well as all of the people who have to stop playing for however long will no longer see a benefit in returning.
Maybe (sarcasm imminent) CCP should also charge those who used Ghost Training the amount of game time required for each skill trained during the ghosting period, would that balance the gameplay enough?
And why on earth is this so important to them now? Why not spend time making some kind of filter that stops randomly bashed names like 'sdhsihfsoifh' or 'xsdnnxiowniw' from ever being created? Why punish the players who need a break, or who temporarily can't afford it? Why do I have the flu? It's all ruining the balance and fairness of the game, I demand fixes!
(On a less frustration-fuelled note) I was playing LOTRO a minute ago, and as I had not played in a while I was recieving increased EXP for slapping up bears... Maybe CCP can make ammends without going back on themselves (because heaven knows they could not possibly have been in the wrong...) and instead implementing an accelerated skill time bonus to returning players for a week or so. Maybe that'd make this backlash sting a little less.
(apologies for non-existant grammar etc, my brains are seeping through my nose atm...)
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Lord Fitz
Project Amargosa
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Posted - 2008.10.22 11:53:00 -
[4823]
Originally by: Parasite S "WeÆve got an expansion coming out called Quantum Rising
Amazingly the expansion is actually called Quantum Rise. But getting things right, not so important.
Originally by: CCP t0rfifrans CCP is a greedy money chewing monster
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Tivookz
Caldari IMPERIAL SENATE Pure.
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Posted - 2008.10.22 11:59:00 -
[4824]
Originally by: T0rfifrans "WeÆve got an expansion coming out called Quantum Rising"
Quote: Amazingly the expansion is actually called Quantum Rise. But getting things right, not so important.
The funny thing is, that he is a Senior dev and he doesn't even know the correct name of the expansion which is Quantum Rise, not Quantum Rising.
That's like a Blizzard employee talking about their new Expansion for WoW called The Lich Kings Wrath, or was it Wrath Feat. Lich King + crew or what was it? Ah right.. it was Wrath of the lich King..
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Annuka
Amarr DEATH'S LEGION
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Posted - 2008.10.22 12:04:00 -
[4825]
i honestly cannot believe the short notice CCP gave us, should of been 2 months notice at the very least....
this whole thing has been handled absolutely disgracefully and you have nobody but to blame but your own personal greed and your obvious lack of respect to your customers...
p.s i know of at least 10 people who have sold their characters for RL money in the last 2 weeks... whether your stats reveal this or not, one thing is for certain, your losing numbers and your losing them fast.
reverse your decision or risk this being the catalyst for the game dying out over the next 12 months
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Boomer Aires
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Posted - 2008.10.22 12:13:00 -
[4826]
Edited by: Boomer Aires on 22/10/2008 12:21:55 Edited by: Boomer Aires on 22/10/2008 12:17:30 [TYPO]
We are talking about 10,000 subs doing "ghost training" ? Yes, perhaps at the same time and those 10,000 will return and spend their money again and again ...
CCP is just lying to theirself if they really believe they a talking about 4%. Or do they want us to belief this??? I think the dark figure using the feature - oh sorry the "bug" - is very much higher.
As I heard from other side CCP seems to be a "emotional" company. Seems so they found the decisions that way. That's the only way I can explain some of their economical decisions.
Refering to the CCP's annaual report 2007 the number of employees grow from 135 to 283 (+109,6% ) salaries and related expenses from 8,969,896USD to 11,336,081 USD, development costs by from 3,406,966USD by 312% up to 14,019,497 USD. I don't know, but this isn't really a organic growth.
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Coupe Soleil
24th Imperial Crusade
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Posted - 2008.10.22 12:22:00 -
[4827]
new CCP-blog:
CCP will be charging for posting in the ghost-thread SoonÖ, because all the ghost-posters take up too much capacity of the databases. No, we don't to this for the money. That thread is a bug turning into a feature. We've had some problems making it accessible for everybody, and we never knew so many people were going to use it. But the popularity of it is rising and we have to *mumble mumble bull**** , so it will cost you $4,50 per reply to use it.
And oh yeah, we'll start doing so in 5 minutes.
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Gunnanmon
Gallente UNITED STAR SYNDICATE
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Posted - 2008.10.22 12:31:00 -
[4828]
Originally by: Dirk Bond And why on earth is this so important to them now? Why not spend time making some kind of filter that stops randomly bashed names like 'sdhsihfsoifh' or 'xsdnnxiowniw' from ever being created?
Irrelevant aside; when I used to play Earth and Beyond there was a filter like this. When you made a new char the game would censor it. If it was too ridiculous, like those 2 above, it didnt allow you to use the name.
Macro-isk-farmers are one thing, but at least have the decency to make a name that's semi-decent. "wervwrey6wqerf", ffs. The Ghost-training vote thread |
Kerfira
|
Posted - 2008.10.22 12:32:00 -
[4829]
Edited by: Kerfira on 22/10/2008 12:33:32
Originally by: Tivookz ...but what other game takes 20++ years to level up fully?
None.... Great isn't it? Finally a game that has no limits! You can specialise without ever really hitting any obstructions.
EVE is specifically designed so you can't have all skills trained fully, ie. it forces you to CHOOSE instead of just mindlessly training everything.
Originally by: Tivookz Skilltraining is already bad as it is, I started playing in 2004 and I still haven't gotten the skills I want to have at lvl 5 to lvl 5.
Buhu... cry me a river....
In short, you never will. Deal with it!
Originally by: Tivookz Removing ghosttraining will only enhance the gap between new players and old players and also aggrivate the old players who are frustrated about the time it takes to skill up say dreadnought lvl 5?
Ehem.... The only players who really benefit from ghost training ARE the old players. Ghost training didn't benefit the new players who were training lvl 4 of his racial cruiser, but it DID benefit the old players training the rank 10+ skills.
If Dread 5 is so valuable to you that you'll train those 50-60 days for it, THEN IT IS NOT TOO LONG! If it is not, then you're free to train something else that you think is worth your time. This is one of the benefits of EVE, you NEVER run out of things to train!
PS: I can't belive y'all are still crying That much crying just means one thing, that you're so hooked on the game you'll continue playing
Originally by: CCP Wrangler EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
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kan han
Gallente
|
Posted - 2008.10.22 12:44:00 -
[4830]
There were some botherings about the "so very old and wise dev" in the interview was naming the new expansion Quantum Rising instead of Quantum Rise. Well. Taken this from the psychological side I would say it can be perfeclty interpreted as a freudian slip: There is no such Expansion right now it is in the making therefore rising and not on the rise already. Just to make the impression that there is something "in the pipe".
Because he is a very old and very, very wise dev, he told us more then we wanted to know: The new expansion is just talked about to get some "good" news into the press. Well I would call that "Ghost News". I think it was a very hard decision to reveal it not on but before the fanfest in the beginning of november. What's the News in the "Fan"Fest now? Maybe they already knew, they need it for their pseudo-spinning-bla-bla.
While visiting their site, I'm just thinking about who will be getting into talks with their sponsors to get some infos if those are still thinking that taken a sponsoring for such a company is still valuable...
The longer I think about it the more I'm disguised.
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kan han
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.10.22 12:45:00 -
[4831]
Originally by: Kerfira That much crying just means one thing, that you're so hooked on the game you'll continue playing
Hmm, I'm just asking me who whined first. I think it was CCP beacuse of sooooooooo much Ghost Account, Boooo Hooo Hooooooooo. *ouch*
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Gunnanmon
Gallente UNITED STAR SYNDICATE
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Posted - 2008.10.22 12:46:00 -
[4832]
Originally by: Kerfira PS: I can't belive y'all are still crying That much crying just means one thing, that you're so hooked on the game you'll continue playing
For me this might very well be the case. But I'll still have all my chars, and CCP will see far less income from me. About half, actually. And since my alts are all well over 40m SP they're more than capable be used efficiently without more training. The Ghost-training vote thread |
Fangren Hunter
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Posted - 2008.10.22 13:34:00 -
[4833]
PLAYER BASE ON STRIKE
As form of protest I call to you all to not login next Friday
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Tivookzz
|
Posted - 2008.10.22 13:54:00 -
[4834]
Originally by: Fangren Hunter
PLAYER BASE ON STRIKE
As form of protest I call to you all to not login next Friday
I'm having a blast in my newly registered Warhammer account so don't worry, I wont be logging on at all, friday included.
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Boomer Aires
|
Posted - 2008.10.22 13:58:00 -
[4835]
Why there is no answer or any comment from CCP? Where are they? Ghosts?
CCP crisis management: CCP Games CEO Hilmar Petursson:
Quote: [...] Tough times never last, tough people do. Iceland is full of tough people, the rest died off centuries ago. [...]
Ahhh, ok that's the possible way they are sitting this problem out.
BoooOH Huuuu
snowflakes -> snow flurry -> Blizzard ...it's getting cold out there!
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Valuv
Placeholder Corporation
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Posted - 2008.10.22 14:05:00 -
[4836]
I have no real problem with CCP disabling ghost-training, don't really care that much since they have the right to do it, but...
The way they have done it, is absolutely ridiculous. Lies, lies and more lies with petty attempts at damage control. Seriously, just fire your whole PR team and get a new one.
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Loyal Servant
Caldari PURE Legion Pure.
|
Posted - 2008.10.22 14:08:00 -
[4837]
Originally by: Dirk Bond
(On a less frustration-fuelled note) I was playing LOTRO a minute ago, and as I had not played in a while I was recieving increased EXP for slapping up bears...
I play on Vilya with a bunch of other eve defectors. 'LoyalServant'
Eve tho I have no XP to gain (I'm at the level cap) It's still good old fashioned fun to run out into the moors and bash on other people. Or bash crap in CD..... Just because Turbine does not present us with nonsense like this..... We play, we have fun and we don't worry about nerfs and dev cheats or stupid policy.
Fact is, very rarely does turbine ever get in the way of playing. We play, and we don't get bothered with nonsense.... it's great.
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Pheleus
Afk Masters
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Posted - 2008.10.22 14:12:00 -
[4838]
Can someone link the unedited player guide talking about the skill training please want to show some friends the lol-gasm.
Also I am not the oldest player in the world but i have noticed something with CCP, once the change is made like this they just ignore the outcry until it goes away...there will be no response nothing and in a week or 5 it will be like it never happened. Nothing we say or do will change this now it is toooo late.
/me points to nos nerf, speed nerf, T20 ****, Carrier nerf the proof is out there and there is many more i cant be stuffed listing.
Phel.
-4 accounts by the way.
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BIind
|
Posted - 2008.10.22 16:10:00 -
[4839]
MMORPG.com should have been like "Please keep the discussion to the relevant sticky in EVE Information Portal" for the lulz.
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Raymond Sterns
Utopian Research I.E.L. The ENTITY.
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Posted - 2008.10.22 16:10:00 -
[4840]
Originally by: Kerfira uh duuuurh *drools*
Are you gonna wash your mouth with buckshot or should I do it for you?
And post with your main. _ Hooray for ****ty marketing moves.
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DorXtar
The Hull Miners Union
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Posted - 2008.10.22 16:18:00 -
[4841]
Originally by: Pheleus Can someone link the unedited player guide talking about the skill training please want to show some friends the lol-gasm.
Also I am not the oldest player in the world but i have noticed something with CCP, once the change is made like this they just ignore the outcry until it goes away...there will be no response nothing and in a week or 5 it will be like it never happened. Nothing we say or do will change this now it is toooo late.
/me points to nos nerf, speed nerf, T20 ****, Carrier nerf the proof is out there and there is many more i cant be stuffed listing.
Phel.
-4 accounts by the way.
I don't think this will go away in the minds of CCP peeps. It's going to hurt their wallet until they implement features that bring in more subscribers. Like nipples. ________________________________ It never hurts to help! |
Mirik
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Posted - 2008.10.22 17:35:00 -
[4842]
Edited by: Mirik on 22/10/2008 17:37:47 I have 3 accounts with Eve and I have canceled all of them. Two of them are (or at this point I should say were) on a yearly subscriptions, third account was on monthly basis with the plans to use "ghost training feature" on it this very month! This third account was very seldom used for specific situations and simply does not justify $14.95 per month. Which is precisely why I planned to use ghost training feature to lessen the cost once my skills were trained to the point that mostly I would need to train level 5 skills.
What CCP did here in my view, is like saying: "Yes we are happy that you pay us yearly subscription on your two accounts. We are even more happy that you purchased 3rd account with us. No we don't care that you planned to use one of our ADVERTISED FEATURES because we always really thought of it as bug. Have a nice day."
Basically CCP extended their middle finger in my direction.
I really can't afford and/or justify paying full price for this 3rd account at this time, but I was willing to give CCP something by using ghost training FEATURE!
I was a loyal customer for years but this blatant lie on CCPs part is simply a last straw. This coming February my yearly subscriptions will expire and I will definitely not be renewing them.
It's funny how this is such a big deal all of a sudden. Over the years with Eve I have lost months (this is not a joke) of training time on my account due to lack of skill queue feature. Some people do travel, for example, and sometimes there is simply no way to access your account or (especially when your Eve life begins) you have no long time skills to train yet.
As a player base we have been asking for skill queuing for years. I don't see CCP wanting to refund me months of lost training time or any interest whatsoever of implementing one of the most asked for (if not most asked for) features.
I will most likely sell the characters/accounts in February as I don't see CCP changing their ways. My main character has 59 million SP and my other one 57 million SP with God knows how many millions lost over the years just because CCP is unable to implement a simple feature, yet they have no problem labeling and advertised feature a bug.
Nice going there CCP. I hope it will be worth it for you losing a loyal customer.
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Richard Aiel
Caldari Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2008.10.22 17:41:00 -
[4843]
Edited by: Richard Aiel on 22/10/2008 17:41:25
Originally by: Kerfira Edited by: Kerfira on 22/10/2008 12:33:32
Originally by: Tivookz ...but what other game takes 20++ years to level up fully?
None.... Great isn't it? Finally a game that has no limits! You can specialise without ever really hitting any obstructions.
EVE is specifically designed so you can't have all skills trained fully, ie. it forces you to CHOOSE instead of just mindlessly training everything.
Originally by: Tivookz Skilltraining is already bad as it is, I started playing in 2004 and I still haven't gotten the skills I want to have at lvl 5 to lvl 5.
Buhu... cry me a river....
In short, you never will. Deal with it!
Originally by: Tivookz Removing ghosttraining will only enhance the gap between new players and old players and also aggrivate the old players who are frustrated about the time it takes to skill up say dreadnought lvl 5?
Ehem.... The only players who really benefit from ghost training ARE the old players. Ghost training didn't benefit the new players who were training lvl 4 of his racial cruiser, but it DID benefit the old players training the rank 10+ skills.
If Dread 5 is so valuable to you that you'll train those 50-60 days for it, THEN IT IS NOT TOO LONG! If it is not, then you're free to train something else that you think is worth your time. This is one of the benefits of EVE, you NEVER run out of things to train!
PS: I can't belive y'all are still crying That much crying just means one thing, that you're so hooked on the game you'll continue playing
im constantly amazed how much d-i-c-k the fanbois will allow CCP to insert up their asses ------------------------------------------------ CCP you are your own worst enemy. http://eve.coldfront.net/status/tranquility look at that |
Iva Soreass
Black Plague.
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Posted - 2008.10.22 17:57:00 -
[4844]
Trying to spin it that it was a 'bugg' that was overlooked for 5 years but promoted as a 'feature' this says to me : "FU eve customers! We only care about your money"
Like someone else said in this thread they aint gonna reply they will just push it thru and stick 2 fingers up and say like it or lump it.
For me that was the nail in the already made coffin for me, i was brinking on quiting for ages due to stupid nerf's and changes and friends leaving due to stupid nerfs and changes. This just says greed to me and i would rather give my money to companys and on games that im gonna play.
So -3 acounts well played ccp and fyi i have only ever used this feature once all other times accounts have always been active.
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Clair Bear
Coalition of Nations Free Trade Zone.
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Posted - 2008.10.22 17:59:00 -
[4845]
Edited by: Clair Bear on 22/10/2008 18:04:17
Originally by: Annuka
p.s i know of at least 10 people who have sold their characters for RL money in the last 2 weeks... whether your stats reveal this or not, one thing is for certain, your losing numbers and your losing them fast.
Quite the opposite in this case, actually. A burned out player has handed the torch to a motivated new player (or farmer). It's more likely those accounts will be funded 100%, at least short term.
I must admit the thought of ebay has crossed my mind. If I knew I was leaving the game for good why not get something out of it? About 100M SP across 3 accounts (35/1/1M, 34/1/1M, 25/6/1M), and maybe another 20-30B in assets and fantastic standings to many NPC corps. Seems like about an extra $500-$1000 or so... Not a bad parting gift!
However I think there will be a real wake-up call to CCP as a result of 'recent events' and a non-zero chance the game will improve tremendously as a result. Maybe even some of the old guard will be called back from the vampire MMO to do something interesting and stop the bleeding.
And if I'm wrong I lose very little to waiting and seeing. Without ghost training I can just keep checking back every few months. I can return on my terms, not when evemon goes "DING! skills are done."
-1 (but -3 total if you count other alts) as of 11/5, feel free to add me to your friends list and call me a liar if you see me on before next year, if ever.
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Kakizaki
Caldari Yurai-Tenshin Zaibatsu Celestial Imperative
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Posted - 2008.10.22 18:18:00 -
[4846]
Well, suffice it to say I havent read every post in the thread but...
It seems to me this wouldnt be as big of an issue if we were allowed to train multiple characters per subscription.
The fact that I have to have a fully seperate subsciption for each character, or else write one of the characters on an account off as a secondary who gets almost not SP advancement has always bugged me.
The fact that I cant PLAY both of them simultaneously doesnt have to change.
So IMO, sure, get rid of Ghost Training, but let me train all 3 characters on my actual subscription!
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kan han
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.10.22 18:38:00 -
[4847]
Don't quote the marketing or the Devs, Quote the Management for a superior level of entertainment. It is sooo funny to so how they love to present themselves, this jewell is taken from CCPs offical company communication, and it is the part about the risks. Accentuations by me:
Quote: Reputational risk Reputational risk is the risk that CCP will suffer loss of revenue due to negative publicity. Such negative pub- licity may result from operational decisions, or lack thereof, or from events arising within CCP’s online virtual worlds. In this respect, it should be noted that the Company’s main source of revenue is subscription fees, collected from a large number of private individuals. These individuals form a user community that is highly demanding and interactive. Damage to the Company’s reputation may cause these individuals to terminate their subscriptions in large numbers. In this case, future earnings would be adversely affected.
The next big laugh in this ongoing story of CCP biting the own ass. I wonder who the hell even thought that the suspended but training account would lower CCPs income? Must have been a decision in hurry and fear I guess.
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CaptainOkuna
Caldari Rionnag Alba Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2008.10.22 18:42:00 -
[4848]
Bad move CCP.
I won't be quitting. But my 6 accounts will become 2 very shortly, 2 down already.
I will be keeping all my trained chars, after all it isnt as if CCP are removing the sp's earnt to make it fair as they say they are. They will be transferred to spare slots on the 2 accounts still active.
I would say even with the accounts I mainly ghost trained with, I was still paying for 8 months out of 12.
So you have gone from getting ($17.50 x 6) x 0.66 from me = $69 (thats conservative as 2 accounts are permanently active) to getting $17.50 x 2 = $35
I dont pay for any of my accounts with isk as I am too lazy, so that is a direct hit to your figures. Classic business strategy.
After the debacles of the last year (Boot.ini killed my last PC permanently, GTC price hikes combined with dollar rates going down), this is just laughable. I am not going to say I will quit the game completely. But it is making such future releases such as Black Prophecy and Jump Gate Evolution look more and more tantalising.
I'll be accused of being a left-wing radical, a right-wing oppressor and a libertarian libertine.
I'll plead guilty to all of the above.
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Mia Aires
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Posted - 2008.10.22 18:54:00 -
[4849]
Originally by: kan han Don't quote the marketing or the Devs, Quote the Management for a superior level of entertainment. It is sooo funny to so how they love to present themselves, this jewell is taken from CCPs offical company communication, and it is the part about the risks. Accentuations by me:
Quote: Reputational risk Reputational risk is the risk that CCP will suffer loss of revenue due to negative publicity. Such negative pub- licity may result from operational decisions, or lack thereof, or from events arising within CCPÆs online virtual worlds. In this respect, it should be noted that the CompanyÆs main source of revenue is subscription fees, collected from a large number of private individuals. These individuals form a user community that is highly demanding and interactive. Damage to the CompanyÆs reputation may cause these individuals to terminate their subscriptions in large numbers. In this case, future earnings would be adversely affected.
The next big laugh in this ongoing story of CCP biting the own ass. I wonder who the hell even thought that the suspended but training account would lower CCPs income? Must have been a decision in hurry and fear I guess.
Great read! But don't care Kan Han, wait until they fixed this "bug" and updated the company registration docs. Yes, I know its a long overdue one, but they will find it pretty fast.
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Ronwe
Trag'Oul
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Posted - 2008.10.22 19:59:00 -
[4850]
After following the whole CCP controversies and comments out of player base i somehow can understand CCP.
First i was ****ed about being unable to continue Skillttrain, while beeing canceled, but now im more wondering about those yerkheads having 3+ accounts. In every situation in live there are Greedtards abusing every single anrangement to get money.
Actually its not CCPs fault. That something like this would come was predictable. I only owned one account and trained a second cause i felt like it 2 years later. 1-3 accounts arent that big deal. But can someone pls give a me a good reason why someone needs four or more accounts?
You cant control them in PVP efficent, since your skills in ship control decreases by lets say 30% per account ; not really worth the hassle to train 4 accs or more. Two are enough and three are a pain to handle simultaniosuly ....
Someone telling i need a twink for carebear stuff while using the first for PVP would be reasonable, but you dont need 4. 4 Accounts for something like mining/ratting/missioning smells like MAKRO! Thats totally hilarious Makrotards should be quiet.
Point is that this change is all the fault of our beloved greed! Those guys ( I bet my ass for it that lots of new players are part of this 10k Ghosties) deserve it ! I hope you quit!
For those who dont have any clue bout eve cause they started only 1 or maybe 2 years ago, you better listen to the oldies. At that time eve aired online it was the WTF factor that you could skill while being canceled. Its not like today. At that time, the small playerbase of maybe 4k -8k advertised EVE to their friends, not because it was cheap , because you could take a break and get back and have some goddies like new Ships. CCP Ceo tells a different story now, that some1 who wanst into the source code off eve wrote that advert saying ghost training etc...; thats not true, i remember him anouncing it , on games conventions it was one of the first things CCP staff told you. It played a big part of the selling strategie and i may burn my tongue, but i believe it was the biggest part of it whether or not they tell you a different story now.
For the part you dont get any free in Ogames, i can 100% confirm that this is an absolute LIE. All other games have Events where player can get Onlineshop items special kits/items whatever for free motivating players to stay subscribed for another month. Eve is the only game we get nothing now except some unnesessary Nerfs nobody asked for. Since you are not unique anymore you have to make sure you start to keep us happy with stuff nobody needs like that other games do.
Point of my Comment is that maybe CCP could rethink the way they chopped off Ghost Training.
- In my point of view, people only having one account should be able to continue with it. Second Account should be made incapable of Ghost Training.
Why? Donno who it was but someone talked about beeing fair. I think thats what players deserve even if they arent subscribing 40/40 times. Ghost training was a Legit Game mechanic but apearently to easy to abuse. Since EVE has a high amount of older Players with jobs,Fam,Studies etc. i feel a little lumped together with all those chara breeder/macrominer/macroplexer/macroDEVS/Macroscammer.
They destroy this game! They kill the market and now they killed Ghost Training!
Congratulations |
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Meha Mott
Minmatar Carebear Research and Produktion Agency
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Posted - 2008.10.22 20:02:00 -
[4851]
Originally by: CaptainOkuna Bad move CCP.
I won't be quitting. But my 6 accounts will become 2 very shortly, 2 down already.
I will be keeping all my trained chars, after all it isnt as if CCP are removing the sp's earnt to make it fair as they say they are. They will be transferred to spare slots on the 2 accounts still active.
I would say even with the accounts I mainly ghost trained with, I was still paying for 8 months out of 12.
So you have gone from getting ($17.50 x 6) x 0.66 from me = $69 (thats conservative as 2 accounts are permanently active) to getting $17.50 x 2 = $35
I dont pay for any of my accounts with isk as I am too lazy, so that is a direct hit to your figures. Classic business strategy.
After the debacles of the last year (Boot.ini killed my last PC permanently, GTC price hikes combined with dollar rates going down), this is just laughable. I am not going to say I will quit the game completely. But it is making such future releases such as Black Prophecy and Jump Gate Evolution look more and more tantalising.
Exactly this ^^, but not with 6, i will do it with 12 accounts, and 2 friends will do exactly the same. Time to say bye bye to 210$ never coming back .
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Ronwe
Trag'Oul
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Posted - 2008.10.22 20:06:00 -
[4852]
Originally by: Meha Mott
Originally by: CaptainOkuna Bad move CCP.
I won't be quitting. But my 6 accounts will become 2 very shortly, 2 down already.
I will be keeping all my trained chars, after all it isnt as if CCP are removing the sp's earnt to make it fair as they say they are. They will be transferred to spare slots on the 2 accounts still active.
I would say even with the accounts I mainly ghost trained with, I was still paying for 8 months out of 12.
So you have gone from getting ($17.50 x 6) x 0.66 from me = $69 (thats conservative as 2 accounts are permanently active) to getting $17.50 x 2 = $35
I dont pay for any of my accounts with isk as I am too lazy, so that is a direct hit to your figures. Classic business strategy.
After the debacles of the last year (Boot.ini killed my last PC permanently, GTC price hikes combined with dollar rates going down), this is just laughable. I am not going to say I will quit the game completely. But it is making such future releases such as Black Prophecy and Jump Gate Evolution look more and more tantalising.
Exactly this ^^, but not with 6, i will do it with 12 accounts, and 2 friends will do exactly the same. Time to say bye bye to 210$ never coming back .
Horray!!!! 12 Accs... Somehow the question of "who has the most breeding Accoutns in eve" comes up.
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Destination SkillQueue
Are We There Yet
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Posted - 2008.10.22 20:43:00 -
[4853]
Originally by: Meha Mott
Exactly this ^^, but not with 6, i will do it with 12 accounts, and 2 friends will do exactly the same. Time to say bye bye to 210$ never coming back .
LOL, CCP sure appears foolish claiming people were abusing ghost training in increasing numbers . That said, CCP you can't be surprized by peoples reaction. Even if you had always said it was not intended, you kept on mentioning it to players who have asked about it in the past like it was a feature. Example from 2006:
Originally by: Locke Diedrake I have an alt, with a 35 day skill training going, if I don't pay for it this month, while the account is inactive will the skill training still run?
I have no use for the alt until such time as the skills are done, and money is tight this month. Originally by: Wrangler
Characters are not deleted, since it doesn't take up much server space anyway. Technically there's only a 6 month guarantee though, but people have come back after more than a year of absence to find their character just the way they left it.
And yes, skill training continues even if your account is deactivated.
Wrangler Assistant Community Manager EVE Online
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Squirrrel
Gallente Squirrrel Industries
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Posted - 2008.10.22 20:57:00 -
[4854]
Originally by: Richard Aiel
im constantly amazed how much d-i-c-k the fanbois will allow CCP to insert up their asses
LOL. That's priceless.
I think that part of it is that some players have noted that over the past 5 years, vets to the game have told carebears to stop whining and "adapt or die." Now it's like a badge of honour to throw that phrase at someone.
The fact that there is so much out-cry over the mounting issues players have with CCP and that the risk is these wanna-be's might be playing the game all by themselves before the plug is pulled on the servers - is beyond them.
Adapt or die... hmm... maybe it's time that CCP themselves took note of this saying.
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CaptainOkuna
Caldari Rionnag Alba Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2008.10.22 21:07:00 -
[4855]
Edited by: CaptainOkuna on 22/10/2008 21:11:47 I do wonder how many of the 240k accounts are actually alt accounts; it will be interesting to see how the subscriber numbers change after this.
On a side note is there a way to actually delete an account? I wouldn't want CCP to use an inactive account with no toons on it as one of their 240k accounts to show how their latest nerf has boosted subscriber numbers.
PS. Quoted for posterity:
Originally by: Locke Diedrake I have an alt, with a 35 day skill training going, if I don't pay for it this month, while the account is inactive will the skill training still run?
I have no use for the alt until such time as the skills are done, and money is tight this month. Originally by: Wrangler
Characters are not deleted, since it doesn't take up much server space anyway. Technically there's only a 6 month guarantee though, but people have come back after more than a year of absence to find their character just the way they left it.
And yes, skill training continues even if your account is deactivated.
Wrangler Assistant Community Manager EVE Online
I'll be accused of being a left-wing radical, a right-wing oppressor and a libertarian libertine.
I'll plead guilty to all of the above.
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captain shepard
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Posted - 2008.10.22 22:10:00 -
[4856]
well, its all been said, but this is one of the things I really liked about eve, and it is something I will consider very much when deciding if I should change MMO's or not....
I am a father and husband, and it was nice to be able to take a break from eve for a month while one of those really long skills was training.... I call crap on this...pure crap
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Delos Korelian
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Posted - 2008.10.22 22:11:00 -
[4857]
Originally by: Fangren Hunter
PLAYER BASE ON STRIKE
As form of protest I call to you all to not login next Friday
Actually this is a pretty good idea, take a friday off if you do not agree with the removal of the feature. I am sure servers will feel good, and people will have less lag, but it would still make subtle point. Wish people would actually do that.
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Gunnanmon
Gallente UNITED STAR SYNDICATE
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Posted - 2008.10.22 22:13:00 -
[4858]
Originally by: Locke Diedrake I have an alt, with a 35 day skill training going, if I don't pay for it this month, while the account is inactive will the skill training still run?
I have no use for the alt until such time as the skills are done, and money is tight this month. Originally by: Wrangler
Characters are not deleted, since it doesn't take up much server space anyway. Technically there's only a 6 month guarantee though, but people have come back after more than a year of absence to find their character just the way they left it.
And yes, skill training continues even if your account is deactivated.
Wrangler Assistant Community Manager EVE Online
The Ghost-training vote thread |
Vama Mapri
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Posted - 2008.10.22 22:17:00 -
[4859]
Well seeing as it's fair for them to say you can't train unless you've paid, shouldn't it also be fair for us to say we shouldn't get billed unless were actually in-game and using their equipement/servers ?
Same principal but because it doesn't benefit them it won't happen........
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CaptainOkuna
Caldari Rionnag Alba Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2008.10.22 22:34:00 -
[4860]
Originally by: Vama Mapri Well seeing as it's fair for them to say you can't train unless you've paid, shouldn't it also be fair for us to say we shouldn't get billed unless were actually in-game and using their equipement/servers ?
Same principal but because it doesn't benefit them it won't happen........
If they truley wanted to make it 'fair' they would make it so that only logged in accounts would train.
Unfortunately they have made it so that those who can afford to run multiple unused accounts pay for it. For those who can't (not me) tough luck.
Fairness is not why they made this decision. Money is.
I'll be accused of being a left-wing radical, a right-wing oppressor and a libertarian libertine.
I'll plead guilty to all of the above.
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Light Raider
Gallente Lusa Atenas
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Posted - 2008.10.22 22:38:00 -
[4861]
Originally by: Vama Mapri Well seeing as it's fair for them to say you can't train unless you've paid, shouldn't it also be fair for us to say we shouldn't get billed unless were actually in-game and using their equipement/servers ?
Same principal but because it doesn't benefit them it won't happen........
That was a realy nice idea, you pay x for the account and it get discounted only over the time you play.
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Procurator Ultio
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Posted - 2008.10.23 00:24:00 -
[4862]
Originally by: Gunnanmon
Originally by: Dirk Bond And why on earth is this so important to them now? Why not spend time making some kind of filter that stops randomly bashed names like 'sdhsihfsoifh' or 'xsdnnxiowniw' from ever being created?
Irrelevant aside; when I used to play Earth and Beyond there was a filter like this. When you made a new char the game would censor it. If it was too ridiculous, like those 2 above, it didnt allow you to use the name.
Macro-isk-farmers are one thing, but at least have the decency to make a name that's semi-decent. "wervwrey6wqerf", ffs.
Actually, when Eve was infested with ISK farmers, the template 3 x Hulks + 1 x Iteron V, it was very helpful to be able to more easily distinguish the non-English-speaking ISK farmers from player miners. Only the char creators over in an unmentionable part of the world would hit a fistful of chars to create a char name without any thought or effort put into it. Any self-respecting legitimate player, even if a non-English or non-western speaker, would put some effort into his or her char name.
And by the way, Wranglish, your warnings about mentioning certain origins of ISK farmers are bullcrap. Facts are not racism. Every single ISK farming team I identified in my area of space -- every last one -- was from that certain area. I chatted with them in their own language, and got some of them to confirm where they were, that they were mining as a paid job, that they ran multiple PCs, etc. I even negotiated a "treaty" with one of them to stay out of my preferred systems in exchange for not being hunted down.
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Braxiglox Hrrglxbrwimple
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Posted - 2008.10.23 00:54:00 -
[4863]
Originally by: Clair Bear However I think there will be a real wake-up call to CCP as a result of 'recent events' and a non-zero chance the game will improve tremendously as a result. Maybe even some of the old guard will be called back from the vampire MMO to do something interesting and stop the bleeding.
I'd like to think they will wake up, but this latest insult in a longish series of insults has pushed me over the edge. Even if they were to buy out the entire stock of the Clue Store and shape up to be professional and admirable, I think it would take me several years to warm to them. This has left such a bitter taste that I no longer promote Eve to friends and acquaintances, and no longer root for Eve's long-term success.
Originally by: Clair Bear And if I'm wrong I lose very little to waiting and seeing. Without ghost training I can just keep checking back every few months. I can return on my terms, not when evemon goes "DING! skills are done."
Yeah. I find it amazing that they don't seem to understand at all that the draw to reactivate accounts is now largely gone. I use Evemon and I hardly run it anymore. The accounts I have allowed to expire are frozen and dead, so it doesn't matter much when I reactivate them, or even whether I ever reactivate them.
Originally by: Clair Bear -1 (but -3 total if you count other alts) as of 11/5, feel free to add me to your friends list and call me a liar if you see me on before next year, if ever.
Nine accounts here, presently -4 since Oct 19, with more expiring through Nov 21. In late 2006 I decided never to pay CCP more than 30d at a time. They had royally ****ed me off a few times and I wanted to be able to "fine them" some or all of my subs in the short term should they do it again. They did, and I am. Now if I reactivate an account I will do it on CC since they eliminated 30d GTCs, and I will "cancel" the account the very next day. This way I can cycle through the nine accounts as I choose, never having more than a bare few active at any time.
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Duskadantor
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Posted - 2008.10.23 00:58:00 -
[4864]
I think it's a shame and unlucky, that so many eve folk decided to deactivate their accounts (with a skill training) around the same time. This in turn causing CCP to react to such a record spike in deactivated accounts, deactivating them where it hurts... SP gain. Of course this had to happen eventually. The final words of Torfi concluding '...I honestly canÆt think of any other company that allows you to skill up your character when youÆre not even paying for it.'
There's a possible combination of factors why so many people deactivated their accounts at this time. It may not have been to gain an unfair advantage (gained over a paying account?). It could have been to take a break from eve, to cut back RL living costs and maybe some people were just upset with the direction eve was headed with the nano nerf and WEB/MWD/ETC changes... Minmatar HAC folk especially.
So there was a growing, recurring pattern. One that was predictably rising. Now training will be disabled on inactive accounts, so this pattern will stop and a new one begun. One with no previous template for this world-wide user base, we may not slip so simply into Chinas steady sea of subs.
I actually believe Torfi, when in the interview he says they didn't expect this kind of reaction. CCP surely don't want to upset their fan base. Though this has not stopped EVE taking another step closer to the industry norm.
"All those inactive skill trainers, will be lost in time... like tears in rain..."
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Braxiglox Hrrglxbrwimple
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Posted - 2008.10.23 01:17:00 -
[4865]
Originally by: Chaos Incarnate Also, for those of you who'd like the silver lining to this raging ****storm, the prices of GTCs will probably go down from people not supporting a group of alt accounts via ghosting
I don't think so. The folks who are consolidating and eliminating accounts as a result of this monumentally stupid change were the same folks so deeply involved in the game that they bought GTCs on the authorized third party websites to sell through the secure GTC sale mechanism to raise ISK with which to buy more goodies. I was one of those, but as I reduce my active accounts I find I have no interest anymore in investing RL money to buy virtual goodies in Eve. I don't deal in GTCs at all now, accounting for one component of the contraction of supply of GTCs. Less supply tends to result in higher prices.
The other component, of course, is the belt tightening going on all around the globe. Even if CCP hadn't changed unsubbed training I would be dealing less now in GTCs as my budget has tightened.
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Braxiglox Hrrglxbrwimple
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Posted - 2008.10.23 01:22:00 -
[4866]
Originally by: Kakizaki It seems to me this wouldnt be as big of an issue if we were allowed to train multiple characters per subscription.
It wouldn't be as great an issue but it would still be an issue. Some examples of posts here by people who are hurt by this change and would not be helped by a training queue are those who leave for periods of time, such as on military tours of duty, or leave for boarding school, or just can't afford to keep an account active all the time.
I have seen it written that CCP has said that unsubbed training was an obstacle to giving us a training queue.... that's bullcrap. They could do both. Unsubbed training could work just as it did before Oct 15, and the training queue could work only if the account were active. Voila! Both nice features at the same time.
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Erin Flux
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Posted - 2008.10.23 01:31:00 -
[4867]
Edited by: Erin Flux on 23/10/2008 01:32:34 Edited by: Erin Flux on 23/10/2008 01:31:52 As a new player, this change doesn't really affect me directly...yet.
I will say that ghost training was one of the primary features that justified paying monthly just to play a game. I say this because the way the skill system in EVE works, eventually, you will be training skills that take months to finish. That said, why would I want to pay to keep a character active for months while I'm adding that extra 5% advantage? It's a preposterous proposition. Skills are trained in REAL TIME, and I'm not getting any younger.
It looks like my time with this game will be short. Back to Counter-Strike... You almost had me hooked.
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Wilhelm Torin
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Posted - 2008.10.23 01:33:00 -
[4868]
I just reactivated one of my accounts with a 2 month GTC, and found out my skill training had stopped 7 days short. From this thread I learned this was due to this new patch and CCP's new policy towards so called "ghost training". When I created my account, this ghost training was said to be a feature that helped people keep multiple accounts. CCP was well aware of the feature, and it wasn't considered a bug. The product CCP is now selling is no longer the same product I ordered 2 years ago. Money isn't an issue here, I could have payed for 3 accounts all along, but at the moment I feel cheated. CCP is making a one-sided change in the contract without asking me, or even informing me through email (when I'm inactive, I'm not reading patch notes). At his moment I feel that CCP has cheated me, hasn't handled informing of inactive players well enough and is being too greedy - which seems to be a common trait for Icelandic companies. As a result of all this I am quiting Eve, which means CCP will lose 3 more accounts. I advise others who feel the same way to follow - there are game companies that have more integrity. Was fun playing while it lasted. Fly safe everyone.
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Braxiglox Hrrglxbrwimple
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Posted - 2008.10.23 01:47:00 -
[4869]
Originally by: Ronwe But can someone pls give a me a good reason why someone needs four or more accounts?
Fundamentally it's none of your damned business, but since it's a recurring misconception here I'll answer your question.
I never intended to have nine accounts. Back when I had just one, we were able to fire up a trial and run it alongside a paid account. So I did that, to create a mini-hauler to haul for my miner. After investing the effort of training I couldn't let it go, and converted the trial to a paid account. I ended up doing that a few times before they blocked the use of trial accounts and paid accounts from the same computer. I got to where I was mining in four Ospreys, a real clickfest if there ever was one.
Somet time later a close friend I had dragged into Eve with a Christmas present of a couple of 90-day GTCs flaked out and went back to WoW. I inherited two of his three accounts.
Another I developed during a time when I had let all my others expire as punishment for something CCP did to really annoy me. During that time I got bored, started a new trial, and experimented with developing the char from nothing, with no help from my others, who were all inactive. Again, once I had invested time and effort training this new char I couldn't let it go, so in time it became part of my stable of paid, active chars.
Now I have nine chars with SP of 33 mil, 32 mil, 25 mil, 25 mil, 25 mil, 25 mil, 19 mil, 16 mil and 8 mil. Originally specialized, they are mostly now cross trained. My miners can haul, my haulers can mine, they all fly battleships, most fly battlecruiser and cov ops, and some fly logistics, HAC, HIC, freighter, interceptor, mindlink booster ship, etc.
I fly my own mining fleet. The five Hulks in the fleet get 1867 yield on each Strip II, 22km range, and 139.5 second cycle time. Mining finally became a good use of my time. This last is important because I don't have very much time left in this life, so time is very dear. Inefficient use of my time is no longer acceptable.
I only ever made light use of the unsubbed training feature. It never worked out well that when I allowed an account to expire for other reasons I had a good, long skill ready to go. Usually I ended up training nothing or, at best, a relatively short skill. And usually I reactivated even before an unsubbed skill had "completed." Nor have I ever bought or sold any char. So "char farming" for sale isn't the case here, either.
So questioning multiple accounts, or more than four accounts, is somewhat like questioning the number of cars I have, or the number of TVs or phones in my house. It's none of your business but if you have access to the information it becomes an "Oh, I see." But only if you're smart enough to learn. Are you?
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Braxiglox Hrrglxbrwimple
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Posted - 2008.10.23 01:54:00 -
[4870]
Originally by: Ronwe Horray!!!! 12 Accs... Somehow the question of "who has the most breeding Accoutns in eve" comes up.
I have nine and have never bought or sold a char. So you miss the mark yet again. But perhaps you will open your eyes and understand a bit more about why ppl have multiple accounts.
This change they made is rife with Unintended Consequences (TM), including loss of business for CCP, shrinking supply of GTCs (I don't sell them anymore), reduction in manufacturing (I don't build anything anymore), reduction in viable corps and alliances, etc.
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captain shepard
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Posted - 2008.10.23 02:08:00 -
[4871]
the real question is, will this "blog" even make a difference? If not I would go as far as to actually compare CCP with square-enix, which is a money mongering w***e of a company. I just cannot get over how much this ****es me off, but I honestly dont think ccp will even read this thread... how sad
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Gunnanmon
Gallente UNITED STAR SYNDICATE
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Posted - 2008.10.23 02:23:00 -
[4872]
Originally by: Braxiglox Hrrglxbrwimple
Originally by: Ronwe But can someone pls give a me a good reason why someone needs four or more accounts?
Fundamentally it's none of your damned business, but since it's a recurring misconception here I'll answer your question.
I never intended to have nine accounts. Back when I had just one, we were able to fire up a trial and run it alongside a paid account. So I did that, to create a mini-hauler to haul for my miner. After investing the effort of training I couldn't let it go, and converted the trial to a paid account. I ended up doing that a few times before they blocked the use of trial accounts and paid accounts from the same computer. I got to where I was mining in four Ospreys, a real clickfest if there ever was one.
Somet time later a close friend I had dragged into Eve with a Christmas present of a couple of 90-day GTCs flaked out and went back to WoW. I inherited two of his three accounts.
Another I developed during a time when I had let all my others expire as punishment for something CCP did to really annoy me. During that time I got bored, started a new trial, and experimented with developing the char from nothing, with no help from my others, who were all inactive. Again, once I had invested time and effort training this new char I couldn't let it go, so in time it became part of my stable of paid, active chars.
Now I have nine chars with SP of 33 mil, 32 mil, 25 mil, 25 mil, 25 mil, 25 mil, 19 mil, 16 mil and 8 mil. Originally specialized, they are mostly now cross trained. My miners can haul, my haulers can mine, they all fly battleships, most fly battlecruiser and cov ops, and some fly logistics, HAC, HIC, freighter, interceptor, mindlink booster ship, etc.
I fly my own mining fleet. The five Hulks in the fleet get 1867 yield on each Strip II, 22km range, and 139.5 second cycle time. Mining finally became a good use of my time. This last is important because I don't have very much time left in this life, so time is very dear. Inefficient use of my time is no longer acceptable.
I only ever made light use of the unsubbed training feature. It never worked out well that when I allowed an account to expire for other reasons I had a good, long skill ready to go. Usually I ended up training nothing or, at best, a relatively short skill. And usually I reactivated even before an unsubbed skill had "completed." Nor have I ever bought or sold any char. So "char farming" for sale isn't the case here, either.
So questioning multiple accounts, or more than four accounts, is somewhat like questioning the number of cars I have, or the number of TVs or phones in my house. It's none of your business but if you have access to the information it becomes an "Oh, I see." But only if you're smart enough to learn. Are you?
Wow, that's remarkably similar to my own story. Except my little army plough through L4s for the most part, instead of mining. Although I did run a mining team in 0.0, a few years ago.
o7 The Ghost-training vote thread |
IR Scoutar
Caldari State War Academy
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Posted - 2008.10.23 02:36:00 -
[4873]
Originally by: captain shepard the real question is, will this "blog" even make a difference?
no, because howmany ppl will listen to it ? 1000-2000.....
i want an appology readable for everybody even in the future, i want a news item linked to it, i want an ingame news item linked to it aswell, and of course a comments thread for it i dont care if its burried under 3 devblogs and an marvelous anouncement again i just want to have one lol
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Jinx Barker
GFB Scientific
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Posted - 2008.10.23 02:52:00 -
[4874]
Edited by: Jinx Barker on 23/10/2008 02:53:06
Originally by: Ronwe But can someone pls give a me a good reason why someone needs four or more accounts?
You know the weirdness of it is this: I never dreamed I would have more than one account. At some point I realized that allot of times I need an ALT to do things which my main could not, or would not be able to do unless I spend an equal, and depressingly long, period of time training him in that specialization.
CCP has first subtly pushed, and later actively encouraged, the player base to get more accounts. When CCP realized that they could make even more money they have introduced the P^2 scheme. With the P^2 scheme it has become "unofficially" "official" and mandated by CCP to have multiple accounts.
In my hay day I have had 4 accounts, I had allot of free time, and 3 computers, and they would each run an account. I would use 2 for PVP and then I would use all 4 for the "carebear" activities, or when the main was in 0.0 I would use one as a scout, and the other 2 to carebear in Empire.
As I have found more responsibilities in real life I realized that for me to run 4 accounts was just nuts, although it may be acceptable to others, and I got rid of 2 characters. Now I have 2/2 characters/accounts with combined SP of over 120 MIllion.
So, taking into account the addicting nature of EVE, I would say it is quite easy to have 4 or more accounts, because CCP made the game in such a way that it is actually easier to survive the humdrum of skill training if one specializes on multiple characters. Because it is quite possible to go nuts training everything on a single character - and frankly the character would not be really good at anything, just average at allot of things.
The so called "Ghost Training" became necessary in many respects.
Anyway, the effects of the decision will not be felt for many months, and as I said before on number of occasions, the feature was one of the best inducers for the returning player, since we knew we were coming back to something special. It was perfect for busy people, people with families, people with demanding jobs, people with little time - in the end CCP got the money, because people had to re-subscribe in order to benefit from additional SP, and chances are people re-subscribed for longer than a month.
So basically when CCP might have been getting 18 months worth of subscription money from "average " Joe who at worst kept one account 100% active, and the other account active 50% of the time - they now will most likely get 12 months, since people will consolidate now "useless" second ALTs that were active only part of the year, a loss of 6 months worth of subscription.
The real problem will come when the "active" players start to burn out, let the accounts lapse, and would not want to come back because they have "lost" months of SP due to inactivity, thus lacking sense of any accomplishment, or advancement, and then why pay CCP to reactivate? They will find another game.
So, that is why I think this was such a big mistake, not to mention the attempted cover up and muddling of the whole thing by CCP.
::::Click The Signature For the Blog::::
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Melene Gedev
Minmatar Redshift Industrial
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Posted - 2008.10.23 04:10:00 -
[4875]
Originally by: Avon Hey, your bug...
Skills continue training even if you are logged off or if your account is inactive
I found it in the player guide.
You guys better get in there and ninja-edit it.
They did. "Skills continue training even if you are logged off, but the skill will no longer continue to train on inactive accounts (an inactive account is when youÆre no longer paying the subscription, training will still continue when youÆve logged off on an subscribed account)."
Wow. |
Vangogh61
FinFleet Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.10.23 04:33:00 -
[4876]
Now they have done it, meh, it's typical of CCP. I'll pay, but now I expect to get some rebate when you take the game down for a day or so. Also, please stop giving us some BS, actually not even given to us, because that would take some balls, but to a third party to protect the ignorant. Man up and say all activities for non-paying accounts will end; all research, all contracts, all sales orders. Why should they be able to profit when they aren't paying?
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Leica Stroganow
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Posted - 2008.10.23 05:52:00 -
[4877]
PLAYER BASE ON STRIKE
As form of protest I call to you all to not login next Friday
SIGNED
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Clansworth
Burning Sky Labs Libertas Fidelitas
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Posted - 2008.10.23 07:32:00 -
[4878]
Originally by: tartan pixie Could someone who knows more about databases than i do explain how adding more than a start/finish time to skill training reduces impact on the server?? I suspect the reason ghost trading, manufacturing, etc are being left in is that it would create too much work for the devs to take them out.
Unless of course they mean to reduce the server load by reducing the number of paid accounts, mmm yeah that must be it.
The name Gerald Ratner springs to mind.
I believe in the mmorpg interview, they said: ôA couple of weeks ago, we were doing some research on our database and running some queries as we do frequentlyà and we noted a big rise in [the use of the system]. So, what we were seeing was like a recurring pattern. People were using Ghost Training to advance their characters without paying a subscription. So, they were building fairly strong characters without paying a subscription. Which, to be honest, didnÆt seem fair.ö
They found that Ghost training was becoming much more popular, and was not just the incidental result of people's account expiring, it was becoming the norm for a larger number of characters. They found this while looking at the database performance, but didn't say that it was actually affecting the performance.
POS Personal Storage |
Procurator Ultio
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Posted - 2008.10.23 08:07:00 -
[4879]
Originally by: Clansworth I believe in the mmorpg interview, they said: ôA couple of weeks ago, we were doing some research on our database and running some queries as we do frequentlyà and we noted a big rise in [the use of the system]. So, what we were seeing was like a recurring pattern. People were using Ghost Training to advance their characters without paying a subscription. So, they were building fairly strong characters without paying a subscription. Which, to be honest, didnÆt seem fair.ö
They found that Ghost training was becoming much more popular, and was not just the incidental result of people's account expiring, it was becoming the norm for a larger number of characters.
No, that's not what they said. They said they found an increase in it, which says nothing about who or why. I think they failed to notice that people around the world are either feeling the economic squeeze or anticipating it and cutting back on luxury expenses.
Originally by: Clansworth They found this while looking at the database performance, but didn't say that it was actually affecting the performance.
Uh, maybe that's because it cannot affect performance.
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Tivookz
Caldari IMPERIAL SENATE Pure.
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Posted - 2008.10.23 08:17:00 -
[4880]
It's only a matter of time before they realize how big this mistake actually was.
Tiv __________________________________________________
Hating Cash Craving Productions since oct 15th 2008 |
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IcerCRO
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Posted - 2008.10.23 08:20:00 -
[4881]
I'm a university grad student and can't play most of the year. Since (student)=(no money) I surely won't be paying for the long skills to train with my char doing nothing else.
If CCP is so money bound they should perhaps enable an idle char to train skills for a fraction of the subscription fee and be unable to log in.
It's damn hypocritical. Ghost training was one of the things offsetting the real money ISK purchases made possible a while ago. If you want to give the cash, you can get both skills and financial power in the game, WITHOUT actually playing at all.
I don't like this change, neither does anyone I talked to. After 3 years I think it's time to say goodbye.
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Di Katana
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Posted - 2008.10.23 08:24:00 -
[4882]
Originally by: Leica Stroganow PLAYER BASE ON STRIKE
As form of protest I call to you all to not login next Friday
SIGNED
Haven't logged in since this whole thing happened. Won't find me there next friday. That's Friday the 31st of October for anyone new to this forum section.
Here's just a new version of it for any future responses to it:
PLAYER BASE ON STRIKE
As form of protest I call to you all to not login next Friday, 31 October 2008
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Ardoi
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Posted - 2008.10.23 09:10:00 -
[4883]
The straw that broke the camels back, this is.
Account 1: Subscription Status: Cancelled Will be suspended11/4/2008 Expires: 11/4/2008 6:39:53 PM Remaining Playtime: 12d:9h:49m
Account 2: Subscription Status: Cancelled Will be suspended10/25/2008 Expires: 10/25/2008 2:36:19 AM Remaining Playtime: 1d:17h:46m
/salute
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Richard Aiel
Caldari Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2008.10.23 09:53:00 -
[4884]
Having an argument in another thread on another page with a guy/gal whose position is as follows:
Quote:
And yet weirdly daily playing numbers remain steady at 25,000 + players per day on weekdays, 30,000 + at weekends. Seriously the whole issue is a storm in a teacup. What so all those people who are cancelling are still bothering to log in and play are they?
Maybe a few would be, but seriously if any amount worth worrying about (like the 1000s that some would have us believe) were actually quitting you'd expect a few thousand less players per night already. If you inted to quit an MMO there is literally ZERO point in playing it.
Last night at 6.30pm GMT there were 33,000 players online... As i said its a huge storm in a teacup.
And while we are on the subject in an interview to explain the Ghost training thing a CCP guy said only 4.5% (or something like that) of the player base actually used ghost training anyway. And id imagine that 98% of those were second or even 3rd accounts of existing players.
I need argument fodder as Im bad at it
...and Discuss!! ------------------------------------------------ CCP you are your own worst enemy. http://eve.coldfront.net/status/tranquility look at that |
IR Scoutar
Caldari State War Academy
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Posted - 2008.10.23 10:14:00 -
[4885]
Originally by: Richard Aiel Having an argument in another thread on another page with a guy/gal whose position is as follows:
Quote:
And yet weirdly daily playing numbers remain steady at 25,000 + players per day on weekdays, 30,000 + at weekends. Seriously the whole issue is a storm in a teacup. What so all those people who are cancelling are still bothering to log in and play are they?
Maybe a few would be, but seriously if any amount worth worrying about (like the 1000s that some would have us believe) were actually quitting you'd expect a few thousand less players per night already. If you inted to quit an MMO there is literally ZERO point in playing it.
Last night at 6.30pm GMT there were 33,000 players online... As i said its a huge storm in a teacup.
And while we are on the subject in an interview to explain the Ghost training thing a CCP guy said only 4.5% (or something like that) of the player base actually used ghost training anyway. And id imagine that 98% of those were second or even 3rd accounts of existing players.
I need argument fodder as Im bad at it
...and Discuss!!
meh i dont know why i bother its allmost too easy a) we dont emoragequit because the game is poo we emoragequit because ccp is lieing in our face b) we actualy like the game or else we wouldnt have been playing it now would we c) gametime is payd up front so you know there is usualy still a considerable amount left ... why not erm play the GAME we like ? d) ppl in general are consolidating their accounts and just letting alts fly e) 30k+ ppl online 250k subscriptions majority has 2+ alts starting to understand are we ? f) so what is it 4.5% of the 250k+ subscriptions or 4.5% of the 60-100k real people ? f1) 4.5% more or 4.5% more revenue (albeit being unsteady) is still an amount you perhaps wouldnt want to throw away in a global recession f2) your point seems more in favor of the wtf why did u take away that feature side .... f3) is that your only argument ? that your not seeing much fluctuations of online players after a week when thers a huge gaping discrepancy between online players and subscriptions in the first place !?!?
there enjoy
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ChemicalX
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Posted - 2008.10.23 10:48:00 -
[4886]
Originally by: Di Katana PLAYER BASE ON STRIKE
As form of protest I call to you all to not login next Friday, 31 October 2008
/Signed
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fecked
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Posted - 2008.10.23 11:02:00 -
[4887]
Originally by: Richard Aiel Having an argument in another thread on another page with a guy/gal whose position is as follows:
Quote:
And yet weirdly daily playing numbers remain steady at 25,000 + players per day on weekdays, 30,000 + at weekends. Seriously the whole issue is a storm in a teacup. What so all those people who are cancelling are still bothering to log in and play are they?
Maybe a few would be, but seriously if any amount worth worrying about (like the 1000s that some would have us believe) were actually quitting you'd expect a few thousand less players per night already. If you inted to quit an MMO there is literally ZERO point in playing it.
Last night at 6.30pm GMT there were 33,000 players online... As i said its a huge storm in a teacup.
And while we are on the subject in an interview to explain the Ghost training thing a CCP guy said only 4.5% (or something like that) of the player base actually used ghost training anyway. And id imagine that 98% of those were second or even 3rd accounts of existing players.
I need argument fodder as Im bad at it
...and Discuss!!
It does seem that many of those who are supporting CCP on this issue are either new players or single account holders. Where as the majority of those who are canceling accounts are veteran multiple account holders. Yes there are people who are canceling all their accounts but many are just reducing the numbers of their accounts and are not stopping playing.
The figure of 4.5% using ghost training is mentioned, but how many more accounts are those linked to? It is entirely possible those 4.5% accounts actually represent a group of people that own 20% -25% or more of all eve accounts. Recently I got together with 5 eve playing friends for an evening out. Between us we owned 19 accounts. Since the change was announced that number has been cut to 7.
Eve as a social institution rather than a pure game will also mean that alot of people will continue to log in to talk to their friends rather than just quit. Eve has been described as just a glorified chatroom by many of my friends and the social aspect rather than the game is the reason many find it hard to leave.
It will be the total number of total subscriptions that will see the effect of the cancellations and I think its unlikely CCP will reveal the numbers that have been canceled. If you look through this thread its most common to see people canceling between 2-4 accounts with some canceling upto 12. Relatively few of these accounts are played on mass at the same time so the effect on login numbers will be minimal.
I would ask how many paid accounts do those 30,000 weekend players actually own between them? Does CCP depend on those long term veterans with multiple accounts for the majority of their income or does it rely on the average player with 1 account and a 7 months lifespan? I would also ask what effect this will have on the numbers of returning players, will this change increase or decrease the likely hood of a renewed subscription?
On the issue of when will these changes be seen and by who I think log in numbers are unlikely to change dramatically. New players will still be creating new accounts so numbers will stay steady. Also remember that the effects of cancellations will only be felt as accounts expire over the coming months, many players pay in blocks of multiple months. It is likely that the impact of cancellations will really only become apparent in December and January.
Will the appalling PR job done on this stacked with previous CCP blunders and new competition affect numbers of new players signing up?
My guess is that the player you quote will notice very little difference in login numbers over the next month but a significant difference in subscription cost when CCP realise they are not making as much cash as they need a few months down the line.
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Lord Fitz
Project Amargosa
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Posted - 2008.10.23 11:16:00 -
[4888]
Originally by: Richard Aiel Having an argument in another thread on another page with a guy/gal whose position is as follows:
Quote:
And yet weirdly daily playing numbers remain steady at 25,000 + players per day on weekdays, 30,000 + at weekends. Seriously the whole issue is a storm in a teacup. What so all those people who are cancelling are still bothering to log in and play are they?
Maybe a few would be, but seriously if any amount worth worrying about (like the 1000s that some would have us believe) were actually quitting you'd expect a few thousand less players per night already. If you inted to quit an MMO there is literally ZERO point in playing it.
Last night at 6.30pm GMT there were 33,000 players online... As i said its a huge storm in a teacup.
And while we are on the subject in an interview to explain the Ghost training thing a CCP guy said only 4.5% (or something like that) of the player base actually used ghost training anyway. And id imagine that 98% of those were second or even 3rd accounts of existing players.
I need argument fodder as Im bad at it
...and Discuss!!
Oh, this is too easy.
CCP maintain 4% of accounts were taking advantage of this, which being as they are most likely 2nd or 3rd accounts probably translates to 10% of the population.
There are 250,000 subscribers (or there was in March, and we're led to believe this has dropped).
PCU was 42711. You say that's down to 30,000+ ? That's 12,711 less players than peak. Keep in mind that the Ghost training will only effect 2nd/3rd accounts, so you wouldn't expect to see it reflected in the logged in numbers, but rather the subscriber numbers only.
The effect this has on CCP isn't going to be from people quitting over this, it's going to be from people who don't resubscribe. The people quitting is just an added sting. Also, most of them aren't quitting outright, they're simply shedding accounts (and revenue) for CCP, removing accounts that were seldom used in favour of the accounts they use the most often (so the amount of equipment CCP has to buy to service each account will increase).
As you point out, if 98% of those are 2nd/3rd accounts, that actually makes it worse. It means that rather than affecting those 4%, it's actually affecting 10% or so account holders. You have to make the distinction between players and account holders, which you are not doing.
Then there's everyone who never made use of it, resenting that they can no longer do so if they ever were in the circumstances where they couldn't or didn't want to play. And everyone else who it doesn't affect at all who despise being lied to about the reasons. And then, there's the extra load it places on the server to actually MAKE this change. The very reason it was originally coded as a possibility was that it meant that inactive accounts took 0 CPU cycles. Now inactive accounts will cause CPU cycles to be used to make sure they're not training.
A storm in a teacup isn't much of an issue unless your entire universe is a 4 place setting.
Originally by: CCP t0rfifrans CCP is a greedy money chewing monster
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Alhambra Rainwalker
Caldari Rosa Alba Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2008.10.23 11:33:00 -
[4889]
I always found this "ghost training" very handy since the game lacks training queue and nobody sensible will wake up in middle of the night to change skills. Given how primitive the system is it was good that you could make up for losing paid training time like this. Another thing are those ridiculous timesink skills that go into capital ships, it¦s easy to see why people would use it to train level 5:s for alts that they use only rarely (motherships, dread alts, etc).
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CaptainOkuna
Caldari Rionnag Alba Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2008.10.23 12:35:00 -
[4890]
Originally by: fecked
On the issue of when will these changes be seen and by who I think log in numbers are unlikely to change dramatically. New players will still be creating new accounts so numbers will stay steady. Also remember that the effects of cancellations will only be felt as accounts expire over the coming months, many players pay in blocks of multiple months. It is likely that the impact of cancellations will really only become apparent in December and January.
Something just became a lot clearer to me.
CCP are clearly hoping their christmas patch will entice people to stay/not cancel/come back... I highly doubt that timing can be coincidental that almost exactly 2 months after this change their new 'expansion' will be released to entice people back.
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Richard Aiel
Caldari Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2008.10.23 12:35:00 -
[4891]
his response:
Quote:
You can quote whiny rage-quit nerds all day and i still maintain it really wont affect the overall player base to any huge degree.
Most ghost training accounts were rarely played and many where supported by the GTCs to then sell on to other players when they had 'uber skills'
For every one of those quotes i can find you one which says 'stop whining its a non issue' (or words to that affect)
Vocal minorities rule in times of whining and do you really believe that some guy whos played for years, plays every day for hours, has multiple active accounts is going to quit the whole game cause CCP wont let him train his 1 or 2 extra ghost accounts anymore? Cause the main people affected by this are a minority of total nerds who live and breath Eve, the ones who will actually perma-quit for real are the types who were probably barely playing anymore anyway and just keeping their account alive once every few months in case they ever came back.
Sure people will quit but will that hurt CCPs wallet? Not much i shouldnt think... as i said they stated only around 4% of their accounts used ghost training, lets say only 25% of those quit permanently. Thats around 2000 less players and being generous lets say thats 4 accounts per quitter thats 8000 accounts out of 250000+
Not great but NOT the huge e-drama its being made to look like by whiny nerds on the forums.
Now talk to me about upcoming speed nerfs and ill tell you that this will have a large effect on player numbers if implemented badly, but this issue isnt even worth worrying about.
|
Amenhotep 18th
|
Posted - 2008.10.23 12:46:00 -
[4892]
Things are much more simple than that guys.Im a relative new player and when i decided to PAY to change my trial acc to a regular one i read the terms and ****ibilities really good so i knew from the beggining i could count on that feaure(now called a bug) and some other nice featurers eve online offers u aswell.Apart from being unfair for relatively new players like me not to be able to use ghost training from now on,it also show a lack of proffesionalism.judging from the way it was decided,announced and disabled.Who knows ,using the same line of thought,if any other feature of the game will be considered a "bug" in the future and will be disabled too?....The only acceptable answer from CCP imo opinion as a gamer will be:we apologize for all the inconvenience to all of our players,the ghost training is enabled....Or many accounts like mine or others will start dissapearing from the eve world.Thanks for ur patience. |
Duskadantor
|
Posted - 2008.10.23 13:05:00 -
[4893]
ôAt the end of the day, it wasnÆt fair and we decided to shut it down. We anticipated that people might be upset about it. We did not anticipate such a big uproar about it.ö
Ghost Training Interview with EVE Online Senior Producer Torfi Frans [October 21st, 2008]
There must be some people happy about the fairness balance, no? C'mon! EVE is now a fairer place to play... REJOICE!
|
Hul'ka
Minmatar MicroFunks
|
Posted - 2008.10.23 13:19:00 -
[4894]
I expect their next feature will be implementing a “Pay for quick learn” thing. Surely looks like EVE is going that direction…
And for those “stop posting if you’re quiting” dudes, yes, I said I’m quitting few dozen pages behind, but I’m still monitoring this thread, as well as nano nerf thread, hoping to see some positive results from all the customers input. So far nothing like that has happened but they still have month and a half before two (out of four) of my active accounts expires… --------- phew phew
|
Mia Aires
|
Posted - 2008.10.23 13:33:00 -
[4895]
Fairer place? Fair EVE?
ghost corp ceo ghost order ghost research ghost manufacturing ghost ...
Nice understanding of FAIR.
|
Gunnanmon
Gallente UNITED STAR SYNDICATE
|
Posted - 2008.10.23 13:33:00 -
[4896]
The question I want to get an answer for is this:
Why even bother to remove it?
I highly doubt it will increase revenue, from everything I've read. If anything, it will cause a decrease.
And who is it unfair to? It sure as hell isnt unfair to the players that don't use it. Why? Because the option was available to everyone. Everyone. Every. One. Other people chose not to use it, that's up to them. The Ghost-training vote thread |
PsiStorm
|
Posted - 2008.10.23 13:58:00 -
[4897]
Edited by: PsiStorm on 23/10/2008 13:58:50
Quote: PLAYER BASE ON STRIKE
As form of protest I call to you all to not login next Friday, 31 October 2008
/Signed
|
Boomer Aires
|
Posted - 2008.10.23 15:46:00 -
[4898]
Edited by: Boomer Aires on 23/10/2008 15:49:57 Join and sign here also:
COLLECTION OF SIGNATURES
(http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=897766)
|
Haldane Fisher
Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.
|
Posted - 2008.10.23 16:16:00 -
[4899]
Edited by: Haldane Fisher on 23/10/2008 16:19:08
Originally by: Mia Aires Fairer place? Fair EVE?
ghost corp ceo ghost order ghost research ghost manufacturing ghost ...
Nice understanding of FAIR.
If you don't feel its fair then don't give them the money.
I currently have 2 accounts active (both subbed a day or so before the announcement) out of 6. When the sub runs out I'm gone.
It sickens me to do so but I'm gonna give warcraft a go, pretty much everyone in my college class plays it and they keep trying to get me to play so I'm up for it.
The main reasons I've avoided warcraft is not only that its just crap, but because the thought of giving Blizzard money when they are so obviously milking thier players for everything while adding as little as possible made me feel ill. Now though, after having given CCP hundreds if not a couple of thousand in subscriptions, I feel like I may as well have been giving it to Blizzard.
From a business perspective CCP are doing the right thing. It's also worth considering that CCP are well aware that their playerbase continue playing simply because there is nothing else like eve. That will change in the coming year or so, and we see them implement changes focused on getting as much as they can while they are still the only provider of this kind of content...
When profit comes first I try somewhere else.
(all my stuffs are belong to my friend)
"Skills continue training even if you are logged off or if your account is inactive (in the second scenario you can't change skill training, though)." |
Hudhayfah
|
Posted - 2008.10.23 16:53:00 -
[4900]
Can I be your friend?
By the way give us back that game feature.
|
|
Azraeljbs
|
Posted - 2008.10.23 17:00:00 -
[4901]
Edited by: Azraeljbs on 23/10/2008 17:28:40
Originally by: Fangren Hunter
PLAYER BASE ON STRIKE
As form of protest I call to you all to cancel every one of your accounts.
There fixed that for you. CCP could care less if you log in or not. They are still getting your money regardless. The only way to let CCP know you are ****ed and will not tollerate being lied to and treated like a cash cow is to cancel your accounts. That is the only thing CCP understands....profit margins. Hit them where it hurts and let them know we as a player base are not just figures in their bank accounts. Ranting and raving about it here on the forums will do little to change it. The ONLY way to get anything done is to cancel your subs and let CCP know why when you do. There is a block that comes up with a comments section when you cancel, feel free to flame the living **** out them about this decision when you do cancel, I did with all 4 of my accounts.
|
Epimedium
|
Posted - 2008.10.23 17:07:00 -
[4902]
Originally by: Hudhayfah By the way give us back that game feature.
YE, GIVE IT BACK! (my old friends are leavin cuz of this crap)
|
Squirrrel
Gallente Squirrrel Industries
|
Posted - 2008.10.23 17:29:00 -
[4903]
Originally by: Vangogh61 ...now I expect to get some rebate when you take the game down for a day or so.
QFT.
|
BATMorpheous
Caldari BAT.EMPIRE
|
Posted - 2008.10.23 17:33:00 -
[4904]
oohh kay after trawling through 163 pages of whine and cheese, and im still as confused as ever, as someone who wasnt aware that skills still trained on an inactive account
it does sound like a bug (from my point of view/situation)
but then again if in the player guide(which i never read..its like when u get a new vcr..do u read the instructions?) it says this is a feature only to be tolf from the same source 5 years later it is a bug.
the only conclusion i can draw is this....
a bug is a feature if it saves ccp time and effort
a feature will become a bug if they feel it is costing them money somehow...
so infact a feature and a bug are exacally the same thing depending on the situation.
omg.....(morph has a moment of clarity)...soooooo eve bugs are actually features and features are actually bugs!
ccp get the programmers in theres to many bugs in the game!! then when there finished there get them started on the features that need fixing!
rofl..pmsl...omg....bbqpwnd....still so confused.
batmorpheous |
Squirrrel
Gallente Squirrrel Industries
|
Posted - 2008.10.23 17:33:00 -
[4905]
Originally by: Azraeljbs Edited by: Azraeljbs on 23/10/2008 17:28:40
Originally by: Fangren Hunter
PLAYER BASE ON STRIKE
As form of protest I call to you all to cancel every one of your accounts.
There fixed that for you. CCP could care less if you log in or not. They are still getting your money regardless. The only way to let CCP know you are ****ed and will not tollerate being lied to and treated like a cash cow is to cancel your accounts. That is the only thing CCP understands....profit margins. Hit them where it hurts and let them know we as a player base are not just figures in their bank accounts. Ranting and raving about it here on the forums will do little to change it. The ONLY way to get anything done is to cancel your subs and let CCP know why when you do. There is a block that comes up with a comments section when you cancel, feel free to flame the living **** out them about this decision when you do cancel, I did with all 4 of my accounts.
Might be better for everyone to just login on one system and see what happens.
Not our fault if the servers we are financing can't handle it. |
Azraeljbs
|
Posted - 2008.10.23 17:39:00 -
[4906]
Edited by: Azraeljbs on 23/10/2008 17:47:26 A CALL TO ARMS
Those of us here who have posted on this forum about canceling our accounts is not enough we are but a small "snowflake" of the 240,000 subscibers. Spam the links to this thread in every in-game chat channel you can, encourage everyone you know who plays to cancel their accounts if they do not agree with this change or want another change in it's place. Link this thread in every forum you are a member of, spread the word and vote with your wallets and get others to do the same. The only way CCP will change anything is if they are threatened with a MASS exodus of their player base. We the players hold the powers of change in our hands it's our money they need. Take that away and CCP will have to submit to our demands. We can hold them hostage to our demands for changes that have long been needed and are long overdue.
Grab your strike signs and lets show CCP what their player base is really cabable of, that we are a force to be heard, shout it from the streets and rooftops. "We want something else....We want something else.....We want something else...!!!!" ....sorry got carried away for a second.
/end rant |
Haldane Fisher
Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.
|
Posted - 2008.10.23 18:10:00 -
[4907]
Originally by: Squirrrel
Might be better for everyone to just login on one system and see what happens.
Not our fault if the servers we are financing can't handle it.
I suggested somethign like this a few hundred pages back. Except I said we should all suicide in noob ships are the concord hq station.
Either works :P
And yes, as the above poster pointed out we are a minorty since we care enough to find out these things, there are thousands of players who have no idea whats going on or why they should be angry, so tell them. I've done it at every oppurtunity when I've been able to stomach logging in.
"Skills continue training even if you are logged off or if your account is inactive (in the second scenario you can't change skill training, though)." |
cljjlc
We The People
|
Posted - 2008.10.23 18:34:00 -
[4908]
Late to this post but I agree with about everything that has been said. This is a sad business decision and poor handling on CCP part. This along with GT C changes, speed nerf, etc etc makes me wonder. I skimmed through this topic to like page 35 and only found one dev response and it was to tell people to stop posting images in the formu. War dec concord
Quote: Welcome to EVE. If you aren't busy finding some way to injure or at least mildly inconvenience another player, you have a lot of catching up to do.
|
Gorek Loc
Etherware Heavy Engineering
|
Posted - 2008.10.23 18:46:00 -
[4909]
Edited by: Gorek Loc on 23/10/2008 18:47:01 There is another response on page 93:
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=replyquote&threadID=896318&line=2773 But then again, it's t0rfi... I don't think he will be long at CCP, the way he has grown a bad habit of sticking his shoes in his mouth while speaking!
Originally by: CCP t0rfifrans The bug that became a feature
On Monday, we released news that we are disabling äGhost Trainingô, the ability to train characters on inactive accounts. This resulted in strong reactions from the community as many people were routinely making use of it. We explained the matter in more detail and pointed out that this had been a bug in the original game code. Those of us who were involved in the process of making the decision and communicating it to the community did not realize this bug had been so accepted as a feature that it was listed as such in our own documentation on our own website.
How can we not know whatæs in our own documentation? Well, to be frank, it was a case of insufficient communication on our part between various teams û a regrettable mistake and hard lesson to learn at the expense of the trust youæve placed in us. Thereæs no way to spin it and we wonæt add insult to injury by trying to do so. It was a mistake on our part and for that we sincerely and humbly apologize.
Many would hope that in light of this we will decide not to cancel ghost training and keep it active as an option but weære cannot to do that. EVE is already one-of-a-kind in allowing players to progress their characters through offline skill training. We stand by our policy that if you want your character to progress in EVE, you should pay the subscription fee. The fact that so many people have been able to do so for several years was our own oversight. We know this change, and our misstep in telling you about it, has created some discontent and we hope that over time we can prove our committment to make EVE better than ever for you will be evident as you enjoy the fruits of our labor.
Torfi
|
Duskadantor
|
Posted - 2008.10.23 19:05:00 -
[4910]
Torfi needs some lub :'(
|
|
Squirrrel
Gallente Squirrrel Industries
|
Posted - 2008.10.23 19:06:00 -
[4911]
Originally by: Duskadantor Torfi needs some lube :'(
fixed for ya.
|
Duskadantor
|
Posted - 2008.10.23 19:27:00 -
[4912]
He was originally due on an Eve Live Bev Blog at 20:00 GMT today. Though he is unable to make it.
Perhaps someone is mindful of an impending snowflake attack.
|
Mia Aires
|
Posted - 2008.10.23 19:31:00 -
[4913]
Originally by: Haldane Fisher Edited by: Haldane Fisher on 23/10/2008 16:19:08
Originally by: Mia Aires Fairer place? Fair EVE?
ghost corp ceo ghost order ghost research ghost manufacturing ghost ...
Nice understanding of FAIR.
If you don't feel its fair then don't give them the money.
Yes I'll do so! (after Dec. 12th I will not resub) In the meanwhile, I think, I will follow the "CALL TO THE ARMS"
|
BATMorpheous
Caldari BAT.EMPIRE
|
Posted - 2008.10.23 19:31:00 -
[4914]
WANTED: NEW PR AGENT FOR AN ONLINE GAMING COMPANY POSITION RECENTLY FREED UP!
p.s. any news on when the features in eve will be fixed?
|
Gideon Fawkes
|
Posted - 2008.10.23 19:39:00 -
[4915]
It is amazing that there are so many folks so stressed over this. This "feature" was a mechanism by which a player who had to step away from the game for a bit; say for business tavel, military training, or college finals - then they would be enticed to come back to the GAME when they were able. This was a perk and the "feature" as it was described a few years ago does mention that if a player steps away or has to let thier account lapse for unforseen reasons then thier training would continue.
I have to wonder how many people who are so upset are some of the same who abhor macro-mining. (I count myself among that number; macro miners = maggot runts). I'm pretty sure that those macro-miners have active accounts. However, they probably spent those long months training to Exhumer III or V on ghost accounts. How many of these folks will say that macro-miners are wrecking the economy with their acctions?
This reminds me of a company picnic a few years back. One of the less tactful co-workers - instead of bringing immediate family - invited his whole clan and thier neighbors to the event. My friends and I stopped counting at around twentyish. These folks effectively camped the grill for several rounds of free cheeseburgers and soda. As the supplies dwindled under this onslaught, one of the more simple minded of their lot began wrapping up burgers and stuffing them in her purse for her neighbor and the neighbors children when she was notified via cell phone that her friend lacked the gas money to attend.
(Hmmm... Salary-luxury= lack of necessities)
At any rate, these were not inherently evil people. They were just of that mindset that one must indulge every freebie to the fullest and don't stop until someone closes the faucet - even to the point of being tacky or if it denies anyone else thier due.
In the end, instead of an enjoyable afternoon at the lake with horse shoes and kids making fiends with co-workers kids, the managment has settled for a dinner for two voucher at the local steak house presented to each of the employees. It kinda ruined the whole concept, but it was better than expecting that everyone was capable of understanding the spirit of the gesture.
Myself, I do not have a ghost training account and so will not understand the soul crushing tragedy of losing this exploit. But for those of you with burgers stuffed in your shirts or purses, at least you still have developed uber-carebear characters that you can sell or transfer to your paid accounts. After all, there is still a mechanism for that.
In the end, the line has to be drawn somewhere. And much like a business manager that wishes to show gratitude to employees and thier families, it kinda sucks that you have to draw the line where it imposes on everyone and ruins it for those that understood the spirit - and unspoken limitations - of it all.
My 0.02 ISK.
Gideon Fawkes - Cheap combat alt of a paid account. |
Nalshiga Dshoayo
|
Posted - 2008.10.23 20:20:00 -
[4916]
I have played most MMOGs out there and every one of them wants money for expansions, which usually ruin game balance too...
EVE is the only game with substance out there.
to say you're going to quit and move to WoW can only come from people who have no idea on how other MMOGs work, or don't really play EVE.
Blizzard is 10 times as greedy as CCP and wants 40$ for their "expansion" which adds less to the game than any EVE expansion in history.
people need to get a grip and look at the reality of todays MMOGs. none offers one server for all players. none has any depth. none offers expansions for free.
I think disabling ghost training was a stupid idea, but to whine because of it, when buying 3 packs of smoke = 1 sub/month is just ******ed
|
NereSky
Gallente Trinity Nova Trinity Nova Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.10.23 20:32:00 -
[4917]
Dev Blog was pants then - absolutely all take and no give yet again - bullcrap i say utter bullcrap
|
Zeliza
|
Posted - 2008.10.23 20:58:00 -
[4918]
Originally by: Nalshiga Dshoayo I have played most MMOGs out there and every one of them wants money for expansions, which usually ruin game balance too...
EVE is the only game with substance out there.
to say you're going to quit and move to WoW can only come from people who have no idea on how other MMOGs work, or don't really play EVE.
Blizzard is 10 times as greedy as CCP and wants 40$ for their "expansion" which adds less to the game than any EVE expansion in history.
people need to get a grip and look at the reality of todays MMOGs. none offers one server for all players. none has any depth. none offers expansions for free.
I think disabling ghost training was a stupid idea, but to whine because of it, when buying 3 packs of smoke = 1 sub/month is just ******ed
Some of us are not dumb enough to smoke.
|
Grath Telkin
Amarr The Illuminati. Pandemic Legion
|
Posted - 2008.10.23 21:03:00 -
[4919]
Originally by: Gideon Fawkes It is amazing that there are so many folks so stressed over this. This "feature" was a mechanism by which a player who had to step away from the game for a bit; say for business tavel, military training, or college finals - then they would be enticed to come back to the GAME when they were able. This was a perk and the "feature" as it was described a few years ago does mention that if a player steps away or has to let thier account lapse for unforseen reasons then thier training would continue.
I have to wonder how many people who are so upset are some of the same who abhor macro-mining. (I count myself among that number; macro miners = maggot runts). I'm pretty sure that those macro-miners have active accounts. However, they probably spent those long months training to Exhumer III or V on ghost accounts. How many of these folks will say that macro-miners are wrecking the economy with their acctions?
This reminds me of a company picnic a few years back. One of the less tactful co-workers - instead of bringing immediate family - invited his whole clan and thier neighbors to the event. My friends and I stopped counting at around twentyish. These folks effectively camped the grill for several rounds of free cheeseburgers and soda. As the supplies dwindled under this onslaught, one of the more simple minded of their lot began wrapping up burgers and stuffing them in her purse for her neighbor and the neighbors children when she was notified via cell phone that her friend lacked the gas money to attend.
(Hmmm... Salary-luxury= lack of necessities)
At any rate, these were not inherently evil people. They were just of that mindset that one must indulge every freebie to the fullest and don't stop until someone closes the faucet - even to the point of being tacky or if it denies anyone else thier due.
In the end, instead of an enjoyable afternoon at the lake with horse shoes and kids making fiends with co-workers kids, the managment has settled for a dinner for two voucher at the local steak house presented to each of the employees. It kinda ruined the whole concept, but it was better than expecting that everyone was capable of understanding the spirit of the gesture.
Myself, I do not have a ghost training account and so will not understand the soul crushing tragedy of losing this exploit. But for those of you with burgers stuffed in your shirts or purses, at least you still have developed uber-carebear characters that you can sell or transfer to your paid accounts. After all, there is still a mechanism for that.
In the end, the line has to be drawn somewhere. And much like a business manager that wishes to show gratitude to employees and thier families, it kinda sucks that you have to draw the line where it imposes on everyone and ruins it for those that understood the spirit - and unspoken limitations - of it all.
My 0.02 ISK.
Gideon Fawkes - Cheap combat alt of a paid account.
were done here, this guy wins
|
Public Spy
|
Posted - 2008.10.23 21:04:00 -
[4920]
Live Dev Blog Response to Ghost Training and Skill Ques
"In essence ...I mean CCP is a business that enjoys making games however, people were able to obtain services from us without paying. This was being used in a quantity that..." (something had to be done) "Any business would tell you that you dont give away stuff for free. I dont think its fair for CCP."
"Regarding the skill que. We do not know how long this should be." "We want people to play the game." "We don't want you to log in, que a skil, and not play. That would not be cool."
(Is a skill que) "Set in stone?" "This is still purley speculative." "We are (still) asking how, if and why we could (should) introduce them."
These answers were given by GM Nova today
|
|
Levala Veyoul
|
Posted - 2008.10.23 21:16:00 -
[4921]
Most people with multiple accounts have a main account they play with, and an alt account which was created after their main that they don't really play with because they are using it to eventually skill up to something that is a distant goal for them.
So for many people who ghost train, this alt account is not something that they will be "using" for quite some time. Perhaps as much as a year. Hence the entire reason why they are ghost training to beging with since they obviously are not playing it.
With this feature taken away from us that has always been around, it now means people will pay for an active subscription every month that they are not even playing until way down the road. I'm not saying I would expect it to be free, but the ghost training aspect was a great usage of this type of account. And it only makes sense, that a small discount could be implemented in a unique way for an account which is not an actively played account.
CCP's ghost training ability, was actually a brilliant marketing strategy that was created on accident. What they don't even realize, is that ghost training and the word of mouth about this feature increased their profits immensely. The reason it was so successful is because players reasoned to themselves that they were getting free training time that they felt like they were "getting away with" without CCP really paying much attention to it.
CCP you had us. It was brilliant. And now you just killed an enormous amount of future profit without even realizing it.
|
oilio
Caldari State War Academy
|
Posted - 2008.10.23 21:30:00 -
[4922]
Originally by: Levala Veyoul
CCP's ghost training ability, was actually a brilliant marketing strategy that was created on accident. What they don't even realize, is that ghost training and the word of mouth about this feature increased their profits immensely. The reason it was so successful is because players reasoned to themselves that they were getting free training time that they felt like they were "getting away with" without CCP really paying much attention to it.
CCP you had us. It was brilliant. And now you just killed an enormous amount of future profit without even realizing it.
this... but give it a few months, and we'll see.
If those of us who think that CCP's recent actions are disastrous are right, the company should be in a world of pain by March/April.
If those who think this is a storm in a teacup are right, then CCP's approach will be vindicated.
One question - if you had some money to invest right now, would YOU buy shares in CCP? |
Velda Chulai
|
Posted - 2008.10.23 21:43:00 -
[4923]
Consider for a moment that even subscribes alts aren't always online. In other words, there might only be "iceberg-tip" of account activity changes on the server load on eve-offline, but a much higher ratio of accounts lost by the time the accounts disappear.
I speculate that the reactive action will be to then actually delete the accounts - a tough-love approach to the player base. I believe that this will sour older players.
|
Public Spy
|
Posted - 2008.10.23 21:51:00 -
[4924]
Originally by: Velda Chulai I speculate that the reactive action will be to then actually delete the accounts - a tough-love approach to the player base. I believe that this will sour older players.
Two words:
Silly billy!
|
Elienee
|
Posted - 2008.10.23 22:26:00 -
[4925]
"That's not fair towards CCP as a service provider and it's not fair towards other players that pay a subscription but don't make use of this bug."
lot of crap... they dont do anything towards macrominers at all (yeah off topic, but related), even when they have rules against it. Been following up a petition on a certain macrominning character for over 2 months, and they usually close the petition, promising they will "look into it" <-- crap statement.
It all boils down to the following: Earning money for their company. Its bad for the income to ban a player with 2 accounts, even if he breaks the rules "slightly".
Recommendation: Open up a second account, use the macro program, sell the ISK through ISK sellers, which again pays for you to play the game. Will they ban you. NOPE. Why; numerous macro miners doing their stuff each day unmolested by the CCP staff. |
Sandy Minge
|
Posted - 2008.10.23 22:38:00 -
[4926]
Edited by: Sandy Minge on 23/10/2008 22:41:03
Originally by: Grath Telkin
Originally by: Gideon Fawkes It is amazing that there are so many folks so stressed over this. This "feature" was a mechanism by which a player who had to step away from the game for a bit; say for business tavel, military training, or college finals - then they would be enticed to come back to the GAME when they were able. This was a perk and the "feature" as it was described a few years ago does mention that if a player steps away or has to let thier account lapse for unforseen reasons then thier training would continue.
I have to wonder how many people who are so upset are some of the same who abhor macro-mining. (I count myself among that number; macro miners = maggot runts). I'm pretty sure that those macro-miners have active accounts. However, they probably spent those long months training to Exhumer III or V on ghost accounts. How many of these folks will say that macro-miners are wrecking the economy with their acctions?
This reminds me of a company picnic a few years back. One of the less tactful co-workers - instead of bringing immediate family - invited his whole clan and thier neighbors to the event. My friends and I stopped counting at around twentyish. These folks effectively camped the grill for several rounds of free cheeseburgers and soda. As the supplies dwindled under this onslaught, one of the more simple minded of their lot began wrapping up burgers and stuffing them in her purse for her neighbor and the neighbors children when she was notified via cell phone that her friend lacked the gas money to attend.
(Hmmm... Salary-luxury= lack of necessities)
At any rate, these were not inherently evil people. They were just of that mindset that one must indulge every freebie to the fullest and don't stop until someone closes the faucet - even to the point of being tacky or if it denies anyone else thier due.
In the end, instead of an enjoyable afternoon at the lake with horse shoes and kids making fiends with co-workers kids, the managment has settled for a dinner for two voucher at the local steak house presented to each of the employees. It kinda ruined the whole concept, but it was better than expecting that everyone was capable of understanding the spirit of the gesture.
Myself, I do not have a ghost training account and so will not understand the soul crushing tragedy of losing this exploit. But for those of you with burgers stuffed in your shirts or purses, at least you still have developed uber-carebear characters that you can sell or transfer to your paid accounts. After all, there is still a mechanism for that.
In the end, the line has to be drawn somewhere. And much like a business manager that wishes to show gratitude to employees and thier families, it kinda sucks that you have to draw the line where it imposes on everyone and ruins it for those that understood the spirit - and unspoken limitations - of it all.
My 0.02 ISK.
Gideon Fawkes - Cheap combat alt of a paid account.
were done here, this guy wins
I don't think so...
... because his analogy doesn't describe what happened, nor why most people are upset.
So once again it comes: Most people aren't upset about the neglected freebee but the way CCP handled the situation.
To continue with this wonderful analogy let's assume the said company held an annual BBQ for the employees. Stating everyone is welcome and all the drinks and the food is for free. After five years the company realizes that there are 250000 employees of which there are about 10000 attending on a regular basis to the BBQ.
So the economist who recently joined the management - even tho he clearly belongs into the controlling - gets an idea: "Hey, why don't we start charging our employees for the annual BBQ - this way they will still have all the fun, we get moar money for hookers oh and its fair for the employees who arent attending to the BBQ, too!"
Btw: Sniggs still crying over the nanonerf? :P |
Sandy Minge
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Posted - 2008.10.23 23:10:00 -
[4927]
Edited by: Sandy Minge on 23/10/2008 23:15:00 Edited by: Sandy Minge on 23/10/2008 23:13:42 I asked whether the company was concerned that some players would not re-subscribe to the game because of this decision:
“Probably some.” He answered and acknowledged. “Probably some who have become accustomed to it, and I realize that. Because if they’ve grown accustomed to it as a feature of the game and now we’re taking it out, but I genuinely hope that they’re going to come back. We’ve got an expansion coming out called Quantum Rising and we’ll be making an announcement at Fanfest regarding stuff that’s coming very soon in the future which hopefully will make our players come back in big numbers because we’re putting things into the game that a lot of people have been waiting for for a long time.” Don’t get too excited though folks, he was also quick to point out that walking in stations is still in the longer future but that an announcement regarding in-space gameplay would be coming at Fanfest (which MMORPG.com will be covering).
Just took a look at the new Dev Blog of Quantum Rise/Rising/Rice/whatever and I must say I am amazed:
The Orca looks like so much fun: *250% bonus to range of tractor beams (70km) *100% bonus to tractor beam velocity (1km sec) *500% bonus to survey scanner range (~125km) *Can fit gang mods
This is so IMBA PWN! It's way too decent to be true - I'd suggest CCP should review the bonuses again because 500% surely seems overpowered!
And then the Grouping move of awesomeness: Imagine you no longer have to press F1-F8 - NO! - Now u simply right click on yer gunz, select the enter grouping mode and then click on the gun button - thats optimisation eh? I guess the phrase "Don't speak English - F1,F2,..." is dead from now on!
It's awesome how CCP keeps people interested in the game: They remove Plexes - yet they implement broken exploration without rewards after 10h escalations. They cripple carriers - yet they introduce the capital ore shippy everyone and their dogs abuses for hauling. They nerf nanoships - yet they rebalance the shuttle production time by 33%!!!!1111 They disable the bug previously called resubscription-quarantee - yet they implement a totally overpowered superhauler with 500% survey scanner range! ROFL!
I must admit Quantum Rise clearly made me wet my panties!
BTW: Did you know a quantum is referred to as a very tiny piece of matter? So a quantum rise would be ... oh wait .... ! :P
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IR Scoutar
Caldari State War Academy
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Posted - 2008.10.23 23:36:00 -
[4928]
Originally by: Grath Telkin
Originally by: Gideon Fawkes blablabla bbq analogy blablabla
were done here, this guy wins
actualy id call that a fair analogy and certainly correct to an extent (if the friends and family would have been former coworkers and the workers payd the company to work for them it would have been even better but we get it )
and as it has been sayd time and again if CCP had come up with an explenation like this there wouldnt be such a threadnaught my guess is if ccp had done it right the ppl that complain would have been just the abusers of this feature and maby a voice or 2 of the ppl that realy apreciated what this feature was for normal ppl (in most cases brought them back to the game!)
instead ccp went ahead and vomited all over us here is the compressed timeline that makes ppl go emo
1) New CCP Employe posts the fixing of a bug whos fixing is long overdue but the time to adjust is 48hours 2) Thread erupts with complaints about the short timeframe and calling it a bug in the first place 3) Panicblog by torfi underlining that this has been a longstanding bug and some other dribble 4) New thread erupts after panicblog and first one is closed after 49 pages. Main theme : we dont like being lied to. side theme : omgemoragequit vs hahaemoragequitters 5) Thrednaught and panicblog are burried under completly unrelated panicblogs and new anouncements... thread dissapears from index (may be genuine bug ... only mods know for sure) 6) Somewhere on page 93 of what has become a threadnaught a single post trying to explain how it was a bug 7) PPL starting to foam out of their mouthes because of the ongoing lies 8) Threadnaught continues to grow.. thread reapears on index 9) Interview with torfi on MMORPG.com surfaces and is easily picked appart yet again the theme here : lies continue but this time somebody tryd hard 10) Thread reaching epic proportions (even omiting the first 49page locked one) 11) Live Failblog with torfi anounced ... torfi substituted by chief whipping boy zulupark.. short explenation squeezed out of him : bussiness decision
there where a few weak atempts at apologising but they where more on the tone on "sorry that you caught us" there hasnt been an official appology for the blatent lies yet thats what ****es most people here off |
Klix
|
Posted - 2008.10.23 23:53:00 -
[4929]
While CCP huddle down in their well dug trenches and wait for the backlash from some of their most staunch and long standing customers barrage of dissatisfaction to run out of steam. I would like to offer a thought to everyone.
Whether or not you agree with the removal of ôghost trainingö (where did that name suddenly spring from?) or not, given the long standing nature of Eve, one day, and it may not necessarily be soon,tm, but one day CCP will do something that you might not agree with. When that happens, think back to this thread and remember how much CCP care about your concerns, how much they have responded to this thread, how they have sought to calm the concerns of you, the paying customer.
The main response to this issue wasnÆt even directed at us, the paying members of this community, but to MMORPG.com. This to me was to try and reassure prospective future subscribers to Eve and not to retain existing members.
Let me quote from CCPÆs own website: ôCCP encourages respect, dialog, interaction and cooperation on a deeper level between its employees and customers than is common in online games.ö Is this your experience with them?
Do I profess to have a say in how we are treated by a company that I buy a service from? I would like to think so, I have spent well over ú2,500 GBP since I began my journey in Eve back in 2003 and IÆm positive IÆm not alone in this respect.
Some of the biggest companyÆs in the world have gone to the wall in the past few monthÆs and it didnÆt matter what currency they traded in. All I ask is for some respect to our feelings from CCP in regards to this the latest debacle by the directors of this game.
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Smokii
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Posted - 2008.10.24 00:05:00 -
[4930]
I have been ghost training recently because I don't have the time to play much Eve atm. Money is tight and I can't justify paying when I'm not actually going to be playing. It's been approx 30 days on/20 days off for the last few months. I've cancelled my account for now and I'll probably only be resubscribing it for 2 or 3 months of the year in the future, mostly to check out the new expansions. It's a pity CCP did this, I'm losing out on skills that would make me enjoy the game more and they're losing out on money. ATM it's the new skills that keep me coming back, so now that they won't be waiting for me anymore I don't even know if I'll bother resubing.
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Gideon Fawkes
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Posted - 2008.10.24 01:08:00 -
[4931]
In the end, the line has to be drawn somewhere. And much like a business manager that wishes to show gratitude to employees and thier families, it kinda sucks that you have to draw the line where it imposes on everyone and ruins it for those that understood the spirit - and unspoken limitations - of it all.
My 0.02 ISK.
Gideon Fawkes - Cheap combat alt of a paid account.
were done here, this guy wins
I don't think so...
... because his analogy doesn't describe what happened, nor why most people are upset.
So once again it comes: Most people aren't upset about the neglected freebee but the way CCP handled the situation.
To continue with this wonderful analogy let's assume the said company held an annual BBQ for the employees. Stating everyone is welcome and all the drinks and the food is for free. After five years the company realizes that there are 250000 employees of which there are about 10000 attending on a regular basis to the BBQ.
So the economist who recently joined the management - even tho he clearly belongs into the controlling - gets an idea: "Hey, why don't we start charging our employees for the annual BBQ - this way they will still have all the fun, we get moar money for hookers oh and its fair for the employees who arent attending to the BBQ, too!"
Btw: Sniggs still crying over the nanonerf? :P
Account ownership is in essence ownership of three opportunities to exert influence within Eve. The influence was limited by means of allowing one character to train at a time and thus increase in a moderate way the growth of that character's - and account's - influencce over the game world.
This training perk is now nerfed for the same reason newbie ships are worthless masses of unrefinable components.(They may never have been refinable, to be honest I can't say for sure) Some Joker would discover that they could make money by undocking and redocking in a pod in order to refine the noob ship for mins. The original intent of the system was to keep the game moving by removing the necessity for a stranded player to beg for money in local to buy an 8,000,000.00 ISK shuttle from some sheister. (You soulless gimps know who you are!) But, there will always be someone in a crowd to exploit a good gesture - and thus those who will participate because they feel they are falling behind.
At least macro-miners are providing a target upon which pirate wanna-be's can ply thier trade in the relative safety of high sec. Both still scum, but they are account holders who are universally hated yet still provide a relatively steady income for further development of the game.
Ghost training is an exploit. You know it! I know it! And the Caldari people know it! (Sorry, got carried away there.)
You aren't the only one hurt by this action, but CCP's action is understandable. Much like welfare, when it is applied en masse without a sufficient check it will eventually be exploited by many who wish to profit from it needlessly. CCP has merely shut the faucet off now instead of waiting until it does become a huge problem. I applaud them for that actually. It proves to me that thier intention and the integrity of their creation means more to them than an occasional extra few dollars dumped into an OBVIOUS sp/character farming account.
Instead of a silly "CALL TO ARMS", you should be looking at this as an opportunity to push an agenda for secondary character training, or even a "Silver,Gold, Platinum Account" option where for a few extra dollars a player can train (maybe even log in) multiple characters on the same account. Who knows? It could work in our favor that way. But beating your forum fists and cursing the Devs as if they will ball up in a hot shower tonight because they feel so violated by your e-assaults is simply ... pathetic. I do hate to say that about some of you, but it's how the argument looks from the view of someone who hasn't EXPLOITED this system.
FLAME ON! |
Mjraa
|
Posted - 2008.10.24 01:25:00 -
[4932]
Edited by: Mjraa on 24/10/2008 01:29:27 ******ed change...
Edit: Give players the option to allow a second character to train skills on the same account imo... It's absolutely rediculous that I, as a new player, am going to be at a greater deficit than other players since i can no longer have an alt that provides a different role in EVE than my main (ie: Miner Alt, Trades Alt, etc).
That or reduce training times. Seriously. 15-30 Day Trains for required skills... Why don't you just charge us money per skill point? I'm sure we'd be more than happy to pay for a few million SP that would allow our characters to have something other to do than fly a T1 Cruiser or the like.
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Azraeljbs
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Posted - 2008.10.24 02:15:00 -
[4933]
Originally by: Gideon Fawkes wall of text......Instead of a silly "CALL TO ARMS", you should be looking at this as an opportunity to push an agenda for secondary character training, or even a "Silver,Gold, Platinum Account" option where for a few extra dollars a player can train (maybe even log in) multiple characters on the same account. Who knows? It could work in our favor that way. But beating your forum fists and cursing the Devs as if they will ball up in a hot shower tonight because they feel so violated by your e-assaults is simply ... pathetic. I do hate to say that about some of you, but it's how the argument looks from the view of someone who hasn't EXPLOITED this system.
FLAME ON!
Very well /me breaks out lighter fluid and matches.....
My "silly" CALL TO ARMS was in fact exactly what you suggested should you bother to read the post/wall of text carefully I asked for people to cancel their accounts if they dissagreed with this decision OR if they wanted something else to replace it. The obvious lack of reply on this issue from the DEVS shows their apathy torwards those that are responsible for lining their pockets. They could very easily implement a queque or allow more than one character to train at a time on a single account,(however this would be exploited I'm sure). There are multiple solutions to this yet they simply took it away without so much as a warning or a replacement ready to go. That coupled with the pathetic attempts to justify their actions and general handling of the obvious backlash they were going to receive is the main reason we should stand up and say NO MORE!!!! I had 4 accounts ALL of them active. I've never used the "Ghost Training" intentionally and never for more than the time it took me to realize an account had lapsed(about 2 days at most). I don't character farm, I'm no macro-scum...just a player who thinks CCP is severely losing touch with their player base and need a slap to wake them up to show them just who it is they are ignoring and ****ing off.
We the player base hold all the cards, if we can organize a true MASS strike and cancel over 30 to 40% of the active accounts on EVE the DEVS would almost be guaranteed to listen to what we have to say, and implement it. There are persistant bugs that have been ignored for years...ie..the bouncy windows that rearange themselves everytime you log in or at random intervals throughout the game. The overview has been screwed for years also. It's not just this issue it's many. Yet they suddemly decide to fix this one because guess what.........it benefits them!!!!!
/end wall of text
FLAME OFF!!! |
Duskadantor
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Posted - 2008.10.24 03:01:00 -
[4934]
Originally by: Public Spy Live Dev Blog Response to Ghost Training and Skill Ques
"We want people to play the game." "We don't want you to log in, que a skil, and not play. That would not be cool."
These answers were given by GM Nova
With regards to the skill que and the skill training change:
CCP don't exist to take your $$$, the change was not about that. CCP just want players to play and enjoy living & playing in their game.
You see, while you are skill training, paying for your account, logged off and doing other things in the real world, you are not playing eve. Now sure, you are paying them for this service, but still this would be deemed by GM Nova as something... 'That would not be cool.'
This is why they want players to accept this change. This is why they are unsure of implementing a skill que.
So, that little Liberty of skill training is no longer and well... there is no strong deire at CCP to replace it. Being that even a fully subbed, logged off, skill trainer is disapproved of by CCP. I doubt they ever wanted to create a skill training que. One would allow eve-players to skill train, while away from eve, at their convenience. However this does not subscribe to CCPs desire of player participation in eve.
With regards to allowing players to train a second avatar (on the same account):
Imagine the further upset this may cause to players who spent money on the power of two, for this very purpose. Imagine that now they feel they no longer need that second account for a specialized character. 'Bye-bye' 2nd account. I won't discuss the other possibilities because there are way too many to factor in. I just can't see this idea ever catching on with CCP.
=Dusk=
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Sanity Lost
|
Posted - 2008.10.24 03:52:00 -
[4935]
Originally by: Gideon Fawkes
Instead of a silly "CALL TO ARMS", you should be looking at this as an opportunity to push an agenda for secondary character training, or even a "Silver,Gold, Platinum Account" option where for a few extra dollars a player can train (maybe even log in) multiple characters on the same account. Who knows? It could work in our favor that way. But beating your forum fists and cursing the Devs as if they will ball up in a hot shower tonight because they feel so violated by your e-assaults is simply ... pathetic. I do hate to say that about some of you, but it's how the argument looks from the view of someone who hasn't EXPLOITED this system.
You really have no Idea what you are talking about. IÆm reasonably certain no one is interested in anything you say. This is simply for the reason that despite the 160+ pages of discourse you havenÆt paid any consideration to it.
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IR Scoutar
Caldari State War Academy
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Posted - 2008.10.24 03:59:00 -
[4936]
Originally by: Gideon Fawkes Ghost training is an exploit. You know it! I know it! And the Caldari people know it! (Sorry, got carried away there.)
up untill this point i might have agreed with you now its thank you and good bye (no its not the caldari people )
Originally by: Duskadantor stuff
yes they are after money, its a bussiness >_< infact that whole skillqueue argument is a bit moot i mean who the hell can say he has never ever just logged in to check if a skill is done change it and logged out again and finaly second account for second player well usualy the second account you open is a character you need together with your main and you cant log into more than 1 character on 1 account anyways .... so again ... i cant see many people complaining but the newest power of 2 infact in that case more account consolidating would take place meaning even less of the $$$
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Pheleus
Afk Masters
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Posted - 2008.10.24 04:19:00 -
[4937]
So no unpaid training.....
Can i train more than one character on my PAID account then. Skill Que
tossers.
Phel.
Warhammer is excellent by the way!
And
I already gave my old corp my stuff so to bad how sad.
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Pheleus
Afk Masters
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Posted - 2008.10.24 04:35:00 -
[4938]
Originally by: Richard Aiel im constantly amazed how much d-i-c-k the fanbois will allow CCP to insert up their asses
I want to buy you a pint!!!!
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Xultanis
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Posted - 2008.10.24 05:43:00 -
[4939]
*sigh* I really don't understand why there are some people who just don't understand why ghost training was a good "feature" yes guys sorry no matter how much you want to say it, after 5 years its a feature. If they wanted to call it a bug then they shouldn't have justified the "feature" by telling players about it in the first place. If they said for 5 years that it was a bug that's being exploited and will be fixed on a whim when they so decide then yes, I do honestly believe everybody in the EvE universe wouldn't second guess the change. However, they justified it by telling people about it and even encouraged people to do it. Telling players that it was a good way to take breaks from the world and come back to find a new toy.
EvE is a great game where you can train whatever you want, but it takes a BUTT load of time. More time then any other game ever created. Which is a extremely good thing and bad one at the same time. I can fully understand why this change was needed, but don't agree with it since keeping the feature itself is more important. Players gaining something for free? How is it free? How is anything in this game for free? Unless somebody sold a GTC, you have to put time into gathering the resources for whatever you trained for in the first place. Thats why many people how alts. To do all the other things there are to make money in this game. So people aren't GETTING anything for free.
It does take away from the key thing in this game which is choice "Do you choose to train that 30<day skill or train something else?" But people that thing is just TOOOOOO long. Again great concept since it keeps people who choose to play a certain field to be a necessity and possibly an incredible resource. It's just too long. The only way to keep the old veterans in line with the new players is to keep this feature. It is extremely unfair to take away something so game changing. Those of you who actually trained everything and never ghost trained, congratulations on having a better life and source of income then the rest of us who used it.
This game is suppose to be an exciting world for everyone to enjoy, so that they can forget about real life drama *Even though eve is just as bad as the real world....but honestly....you can shoot the ones who annoy you in this world then the RL one.*
Want to fix macromining? then make stronger rats in asteroid belts, or flag them for pvp if they mine so much, ALL asteriod belts can only be scanned out by mining barges and exhumers, or do something to where the player base can take action. Does this hurt the regular honest miner? yes it does, incredibly. However, who hates macrominers more, the pvper, the mission runner, or the miner? Miners themselves should think of something that would affect their player base enough to fix the problem while keeping things in line with them, or at least at a acceptable level of sacrifice or compromise. Not say yay when everyone is being affected.
The fact that only one character can be training on one account justifies ghost training, since I am forced to have ONE character or pay for another account.
Again this games strength of keeping things centralized on making your type of player important because of the ammount of time you put into it is a great concept. A miner that has a good portion of the skills trained should be important, he should be sought out by corps all around, their shouldn't be 2million people with alts just like him. But thats how it is since thats what CCP has forced down on us.
EvE is not a MMORPG, its a real world Economy. Like all economies, Money is power and money will always be the most sought at resource. Anything and everything that can make ISK gathering easier will be exploited, its a simple fact so deal with it.
Tired from work so I don't know if I stayed on topic or at least made it understandable. I always post when I'm about to sleep dont know why, bad habit I know that.
My 2 cents
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Lithia Tsanov
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Posted - 2008.10.24 07:26:00 -
[4940]
Good evening,
While I may represent the vast minority here that believes that ghost training should be disabled, or have limitations imposed on it (for example training only going on for 30 days)... I am also against this change. Actually, I'm against all changes "until CCP fixes its performance issues".
That's right. No speed nerf, no new content. No new graphics. Just fix the lag. Don't touch ghost training, don't add more cosmos missions. Fix lag. No new marketing campains and additions such as faction warefare. Fix lag. Stop planning the next Myrmidon nerf (there have been 6 now?). Fix Lag
Fix the lag. Fix the Mother F'ing lag. Fix it. Don't do ANYTHING else. Wake up, brush your teeth, drive to work, and spend 10 hours a day, every day fixing the performance issues. Don't stop, not even for security issues. Fix lag.
Fix lag, LT What is an OTAL? |
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Seth Vorlar
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Posted - 2008.10.24 07:53:00 -
[4941]
Originally by: Gideon Fawkes
This reminds me of a company picnic a few years back. One of the less tactful co-workers - instead of bringing immediate family - invited his whole clan and thier neighbors to the event. My friends and I stopped counting at around twentyish. These folks effectively camped the grill for several rounds of free cheeseburgers and soda. As the supplies dwindled under this onslaught, one of the more simple minded of their lot began wrapping up burgers and stuffing them in her purse for her neighbor and the neighbors children when she was notified via cell phone that her friend lacked the gas money to attend.
(Hmmm... Salary-luxury= lack of necessities)
At any rate, these were not inherently evil people. They were just of that mindset that one must indulge every freebie to the fullest and don't stop until someone closes the faucet - even to the point of being tacky or if it denies anyone else thier due.
In the end, instead of an enjoyable afternoon at the lake with horse shoes and kids making fiends with co-workers kids, the managment has settled for a dinner for two voucher at the local steak house presented to each of the employees. It kinda ruined the whole concept, but it was better than expecting that everyone was capable of understanding the spirit of the gesture.
Gideon Fawkes - Cheap combat alt of a paid account.
So ONE idiot is responsible that everyone gets punished, better to punish the ONE idiot
FIRE TORFI!!! |
Fivo Asia
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Posted - 2008.10.24 07:56:00 -
[4942]
Originally by: Mjraa Edited by: Mjraa on 24/10/2008 01:29:27 ******ed change...
Edit: Give players the option to allow a second character to train skills on the same account imo... It's absolutely rediculous that I, as a new player, am going to be at a greater deficit than other players since i can no longer have an alt that provides a different role in EVE than my main (ie: Miner Alt, Trades Alt, etc).
That or reduce training times. Seriously. 15-30 Day Trains for required skills... Why don't you just charge us money per skill point? I'm sure we'd be more than happy to pay for a few million SP that would allow our characters to have something other to do than fly a T1 Cruiser or the like.
Let me SECOND purchasing skill points! When KOTOR 3 hits I'm going to quickly tired of waiting a year for a Black Ops ship. |
ViolenTUK
Gallente Vindicated Exiles
|
Posted - 2008.10.24 08:53:00 -
[4943]
Originally by: Fivo Asia When KOTOR 3 hits I'm going to quickly tired of waiting a year for a Black Ops ship.
Which is compunded by the simple fact that the Sin is basicaly a Dominix with some altered and additional attributes. Very Poor indeed.
The removal of "Ghost Training" |
Gunnanmon
Gallente UNITED STAR SYNDICATE
|
Posted - 2008.10.24 09:38:00 -
[4944]
Originally by: Fivo Asia When KOTOR 3 hits I'm going to quickly tired of waiting a year for a Black Ops ship.
And people question why others have so many bloody accounts. Because you HAVE to, or you're missing out on the majority of the game. You need a lot of accounts, each trained in a different area. |
Chris Stormrider
Gallente IDEON ANDRON
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Posted - 2008.10.24 11:17:00 -
[4945]
just my point of view, but doesn't 5% ghost training means that another 5% is currently paying (at least) 30 days of game time between ghost trains? Or do they want us to think that all these people ghost train at the same time ccp ran the numbers on their DB? in any case this 5% will pay for that account this or the next month.
as a business move it's obviously controversial (but it's their right to make it)
for me it's a fail and all the Dev blogs and interviews hasn't done much to change this
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IR Scoutar
Caldari State War Academy
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Posted - 2008.10.24 11:50:00 -
[4946]
page 165 and still no apology \o/
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Durty Nell
Caldari State War Academy
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Posted - 2008.10.24 11:59:00 -
[4947]
Originally by: Gideon Fawkes
You aren't the only one hurt by this action, but CCP's action is understandable. Much like welfare, when it is applied en masse without a sufficient check it will eventually be exploited by many who wish to profit from it needlessly. CCP has merely shut the faucet off now instead of waiting until it does become a huge problem. I applaud them for that actually. It proves to me that thier intention and the integrity of their creation means more to them than an occasional extra few dollars dumped into an OBVIOUS sp/character farming account.
First of all I am sick and tired of reading the argument you and others present on both this and other forums.
It is not a fair social commentary. If I'll explain why it is not a fair commentary.
Lets take a look at your example, social security/welfare systems and apply the argument you provide. Then it can be said that there is a case in support of your argument as the general tax payer subsides the fund with contributions while freeloaders or lechers as IÆve seen, those less fortunate than ourselves, labelled take advantage. Statements like get a job, pay your way arise which in some cases are understandable statements.
In a capitalist system that includes free enterprise then the nature of the beast is a self regulatory market with little or no Gov intervention. This translates to the market player as, buy cheap and sell at a profit. These two models do not equate. It is not an acceptable argument to suggest freeloaders or lechers in this case, as a market player must buy cheap and keep looking for cheaper alternatives to alleviate cash expenditure and maximise profitability.
The people who took advantage of the mechanic in place were exercising their right to the very capitalist values you are purporting to. It was not unfair to anyone as it was an accepted condition.
I must admit I have little to no understanding of why it may be anything other than sour grapes that someone managed to strike a better bargain than another, either through ingenuity or by skill.
For those that cant work out what IÆm saying.
What IÆm saying is whatÆs wrong with looking for a cheaper or better deal including free stuffs? Is this what capitalism has become? Is it a case of I must accept and pay whatever price I am told wither I feel a product/service is value for money or not? What has happened to market demand resulting in quality of service? Why are many using arguments designed, as in the above example of welfare, to impart a feeling of guilt upon those who took advantage, of existing paid mechanisms at the time?
Up until a few days ago the mechanic we are discussing in this and many other threads accross numerous forums was NOT considered an æexploitÆ therefore neither can it be discussed as one now, since the mechanic no longer exists in its previous form, else many accounts would be being stripped of æXÆ SP. It is no longer possible to use the mechanic as a means of skill advancement.
Finally arguments like the one presented here by Gideon Fawkes and others, of pay up regardless, make a mockery of free enterprise, and consumer protection, in capitalistic systems. I hope that this blip is not an experiment designed by the in house economists to catalogue market demand. Let me also say that if demand falls within the next 6-12 months as the full effects of supply and demand kicks in, we will either see a price reduction for this product/service or an eventual discontinuation.
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Richard Aiel
Caldari Caldari Provisions
|
Posted - 2008.10.24 12:26:00 -
[4948]
Edited by: Richard Aiel on 24/10/2008 12:34:39 three reasons I dont really care about this an am leaving the game anyways: 1.) Jumpgate evolution http://www.jumpgateevolution.com/ (Oh noes EVE will have internet spaceshipz competition) 2.) Infinity: the quest for Earth http://www.infinity-universe.com/Infinity/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=12&Itemid=33 (Oh noes MOE internet spaceshipz) 3.) Star Wars: The Old Republic (the guy that was behind the SOE patch that killed SWG is dead so this game has hope) ------------------------------------------------ CCP you are your own worst enemy. http://eve.coldfront.net/status/tranquility look at that |
major lulz11
|
Posted - 2008.10.24 15:01:00 -
[4949]
Originally by: IR Scoutar page 165 and still no apology \o/
hahaha wait untill our half range half speed domination webs hit TQ
165 pages will be like, the first quarter of replys as all of eve is nerfed to fix nano gangs, instead of just nanos
you know, the module..
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hopper2j2
Caldari Kazoo RnD Enterprises
|
Posted - 2008.10.24 15:01:00 -
[4950]
Edited by: hopper2j2 on 24/10/2008 15:03:08 This is making me laugh at CCP's ability at customer service. You guys are great at shooting yourself in the foot.
1. You created the surge in ghost training in the 1st place by removing 30day and 90day GTC's and making 60day GTC's the only type available and upping the price of them. (Shot 1 to the foot)
2. You then said that ghost training was a 'bug' and were removing it from the game even though it was pitched as a selling point to your game. (Shot 2 to the other foot)
It makes me wonder how long it'll take for you guys to fall over.
You're treating us like kids.You all know that eve has a more mature playerbase than the other MMO's out there. We're not mushrooms ya know (kept in the dark and fed with S***).
|
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CliveMerric
|
Posted - 2008.10.24 20:32:00 -
[4951]
i wonder if everyone just resigned themselves to this terrible decision, or just all quit.
But good job ccp putting this post up then putting up 8 or so dev blogs and announcements, MORE THAN ANY MONTH EVER!
methinks its a cover up.......... Clives BPC shop, Great deals!! |
Squirrrel
Gallente Squirrrel Industries
|
Posted - 2008.10.24 20:38:00 -
[4952]
Originally by: Belmarduk Quote: MindstarSkill queue is popular idea. Is this something that's being looked into? ZuluparkThis was something I was UNOFFICIALLY discussing with the lead game designer in purely speculative manner. Our feels were that you're kinda opening can of worms. We want people to play the game instead of just putting things in a queue and not play. This is is not official and we'll look into this better in near future. Quote end.
What the **** is the big issue about this? We keep getting the same stupid argument for years now - it was on the drawing - board for years for christ sakes !!!! I am ****ing paying for the game - I decide IF I play or not ! If I only logg in to change the skill-queue every few weeks its MY ****ING DECISION as I am paying for it bloody hell ! I like this game and have played nearly 3 years - but this is an issue which should have been implemented from day one PERIOD Ps.: Anyone who thinks like please support the ****ing thread in the assembly hall. out. ****
This. So, so frigging much.
As for the dont do anything except fix lag post a few posts up - that too.
CCP - Your game doesn't do what it says on the tin. You've lost your way. Adapt or die.
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Vama Mapri
|
Posted - 2008.10.24 21:04:00 -
[4953]
I wonder if anyone on these posts is going to EvE Fanfest anf going to create a rather annoying scene for them about this ?
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Gideon Fawkes
|
Posted - 2008.10.24 21:49:00 -
[4954]
Finally arguments like the one presented here by [b]Gideon Fawkes and others, of pay up regardless, make a mockery of free enterprise, and consumer protection, in capitalistic systems. I hope that this blip is not an experiment designed by the in house economists to catalogue market demand. Let me also say that if demand falls within the next 6-12 months as the full effects of supply and demand kicks in, we will either see a price reduction for this product/service or an eventual discontinuation.
1). Please, enlighten this misguided ignorant soul as to where I can find this information where CCP explicitly claims that you should rush right out and open 5 or 6 accounts; pay for them only when you need to make a skill change; and then consolidate said characters onto a single account which you can afford to maintain; or auction these characters off on the forums. Guide me to this and you'll have me convinced that these evil folks at CCP are screwing you over.
2). Read your EULA. Y'know, that thing you have to click whenever they release a FREE upgrade/content update. It says... "I agree to these terms" or some such jibberish. Pretty sure there is some information in there about accounts, how they work, and what limitations and RIGHTS you have concerning them. Also in there is buried a statement about CCP's right to conduct thier business as they see fit. When you get your law degree or find a lawyer sympathetic to such an outrageous infringement on your rights, then pick apart the EULA until you find grounds to file suit. I wish you the best!
3). When and if you win the suit mentioned in #2 above, you will probably be awarded a refund of your fees paid for that month of service. Oh! You mean that account is currently inactive? Well at least your lawyer can sleep well knowing that you have paid his luxury SUV lease for the next few months thanks to your victory. Huzzah! Maybe you can get damages for emotional pain and suffering? Please be sure to file that suit somewhere here in the US. Folks here are free to be - and lately encouraged to be - as tacky as they want to be. Again, good luck with that. Might I further suggest Louisiana as the most likely place to award you damages. That place is notorious for assinine class action law suits. And, my local tax dollars won't have to cover the cruel millions of dollars or ISK in wanton damage done to your innocent soul by CCP's malicious greed.
4). Believe it or not, I DO believe that CCP handled this incorrectly. This was not a bug that has been long awaiting a fix. It was a *perk* for the goodwill of the players and a magnificent marketing tool. Let it not be said that CCP hasn't tried to change the MMO business paradigm. But, they have learned a hard lesson as now "hundreds of thousands of accounts" will now close or migrate to EA's or Sony's MMOs. Good luck to you all and enjoy the grinding. Those of you that Ghost train seven accounts because you only have a very limited time per month to play an MMO anyway, in your WoW or UO career you should be done with your rat killing phase by just after the first of the year - if you leave now. You haven't left yet? All the best to you, and enjoy the mass markets answer to suspended accounts.
5). I sincerely hope that those of you that do move on are some of the same bums that camp highsec>lowsec gates in a Faction Fit HIC so you can pad your killboard score with targets that are essentialy worth less than the faction ammo it took for you to kill. Y'know the same knuckleheads that go all emo when they eventually fall for a trap and get their billions in ship and fittings blown to hell by a group of tech 1 battleships.
I do sympathize with some of you, game change on this earth shaking scale may well injure your IN-GAME wallets, budget projections or mental well being for some time. If the latter, stop reading now, grab a yellow pages, and divert those ghost traning dollars to a good therapist. o/ |
kan han
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.10.24 22:04:00 -
[4955]
Edited by: kan han on 24/10/2008 22:09:50 [Edit: Typo]
Next to all the arguments, views and thoughts about what would or not, I might point again in the direction of the why and the why now.
As it had already been made very clear, CCP was in the need to very fast (within two days) stop "traning without paying" as they name it. It was so important for them, that they put any customer aspect byside - might it the cost for their customers or how customers would think about their non-straight-forward kind of spinned argumentation - just to, well, end "ghost training".
I can not say wether or not CCP has put many efforts to clearly gain knowledge wether or not this step will increase their income, but with alle the comments from CCP my assumption is, that they at least thought, it would increase their income. If you can keep up with this argumentation, the only things left to arrange are the period in time of the announcement and the doing of the change.
After following the immense discussion with some very detailed and wise thoughts in it, I tend to see a bigger picture that CCP is in the need of fresh money. At least they are very in the hurry to try to get it.
On which Island is that company located? What was the management not tired to say what defenetly NOT triggered them? Kaupthings Crash? The Crisis? If you leave the domain of this game and - let's say - read the newspaper, there is not so much to think about, what is behind this very recent change.
All the discussion about fairness and other morally stuff is just very short-minded. It is CCPs game and they can define what fair ist, what a bug is etc.. Even though I personally have some other understandings of fairness then CCP has, brining a that kind of morally discussion to the boiling point is misleading. It is more interesting, why CCP did made these gross changes in such a short period of time. The better this factual question can be answered, better assumptions can be made when (ever) they will take the steps back or announce an excusion.
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Joey Meow
MURAKAMI INDUSTRIES
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Posted - 2008.10.24 22:38:00 -
[4956]
This was a big mistake, but it will alienate too many people by the time CCP realizes it and tries to correct it. MMO markets are pretty unforgiving.
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Gorek Loc
Etherware Heavy Engineering
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Posted - 2008.10.24 22:54:00 -
[4957]
This must be record-breaking days for CCCP... they have posted at least 8 blogs, interviews and more within the last 3 days.
I wonder if they are trying to move focus from a bad thing to something else... as long as it's not the bad thing everybody is talking about.
Today: Finding the Funny - Massively Interviews Winterblink EVE Evolved Presents an Introduction to PvP Eve Forum Revamp
Yesterday: Live Dev Blog, Introducing CCP t0rfifrans - Thursday 23rd October <- didn't this one never happen anyway? The day before yesterday: Torfi Talks Ghost Training with MMORPG.com EVE Online: Empyrean Age 1.1.2 Patch Deployment - Mac additions. ...and the day before that: Jumpplanner Celebrates Three Years with Giveaway
I think there was one more post on the 20th, but I can't find it again
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Corbin Swift
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Posted - 2008.10.24 23:39:00 -
[4958]
I've canceled my recurring subscription because I'm in the beta for Jumpgate Evolution. The plan was to check out the competition and come back after a month to a new level 5 skill (Minmatar Encryption Methods). Getting to level 5 in science skills is very important in order to compete with older players who have tech 2 BPOs. It's almost pointless doing invention with low skills. Sorry, I'm digressing. My plan has changed slightly. I've now signed up for the beta of Black Prophecy and I'm waiting for the Infinity Universe beta. As for coming back to Eve after that, I'm not so sure that I'll sign up just to watch a progress bar ticking away for 25 days before I can do some invention.
One of the Devs, (it might have been Torfi) recently said that he expected Eve to be around for up to 50 years. No player is going to play continuously for 50 years! RL will stop you at some point. I know from my own costly experiences that unsubbing is necessary at times when exams are approaching or other things take a higher priority. Having an active subscription leads you to log in and lose a day that you can't afford to lose. Yes I have an addictive personality, a lot of game players do. Unsubbing from time to time is my way of dealing with it. I'm going to miss Eve, I always do when my account is lapsed. I've always come back though because I knew that it would be even better than when I left it. I'm not so sure I'll want to do that in the future. This decision sucks, and the stupid PR spin that they put on it sucks even worse.
If they needed more cash in a hurry this won't help them and there were many other options to raise it. I bet if they offered players double training speed for double the subscription fee thousands of people would have taken them up on it. I know I would. That's just one idea off the top of my head. They could have sold Apotheosis shuttles for RL money. (I probably wouldn't jump at that opportunity though). Instead they've annoyed thousands of people and probably set the player numbers back to 2006 levels. I think this might be the beginning of the end for Eve. It will mark the first major fall in subscription numbers ever and that'll probably be reported on gaming websites. That will make new players think the game is dying, so why bother investing any time in it. After a year or so, the game will be full of ISK rich older players all trying to buy GTC from each other but I expect the supply of those to dry up along with new players. Basically CCPs shields went down when the T20 incident broke. No problem, they had an armour tank fitted to cope with that. This decision broke their armour tank and now they're hull tanking. Do you know any hull tankers that survive for long? Hmmm, the new Orca might be a viable hull tanker...
Long story short, I'm punishing CCP for this by leaving for 3 months (2 accounts). If it looks like the competing games are viable I may not be back at all. If it looks like the Eve population is shrinking I may not be back at all. If my performance in college improves significantly I may not be back at all. I'll set a long skill training before I go though and if CCP come to their senses, fire Torfi, and reinstate the contract they had with me for the last 2 years, I'll probably be back sometime next year.
Corbin ps, no you can't have my stuff |
Alexi Borg
|
Posted - 2008.10.25 00:04:00 -
[4959]
Well ****, even though the economy is hitting us in the balls here in the U.S. CCP still has to suck us dry. But I found a job... so maybe things will work out. I'm pretty sure those who are leaving for a while will come back when the "land is a space station" patch comes out... but that won't be for about a year or two. Its a huge gamble on CCP's part, I as the consumer short on cash would enjoy if they kept ghost training in the game, but if it gets them more development money to work on game updates faster, then I say go for it. I just hope all the extra money they could get doesn't go into the CEO's pocket. I do want to see CCP make some more money, perhaps crushing the money out of the common man is not the best way, but it may help. The faster this patch comes out, the better... people may start flooding to EvE and we could get millions of people playing this game once the patch comes out. But I also fear this plan of cutting ghost training will backfire and CCP may lose its development money. If that were the case I would have to move on, because I can't wait to much longer. Maybe Bill Gates can donate some money to CCP and have BOTH ghost training and the new patch come out sooner! EVERYBODY WRITE A LETTER TO BILL GATES FOR MONEY!!!! ARAGAGAGAG |
Gideon Fawkes
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Posted - 2008.10.25 00:58:00 -
[4960]
|
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magnus woundweaver
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Posted - 2008.10.25 01:51:00 -
[4961]
i have 4 accounts and i've been playing since day one, but this is the last straw for me, i aint paying $60 a month to play this **** any more, if i was running CCP i would of known that there are at least 3 new space MMO's coming out very soon so they wont have next to no competition any more.
not too mention on a character that has 70mil sp's in this game the best training time is like 2months, there just isnt any justifying paying for this ne more |
Mistress Servelan
|
Posted - 2008.10.25 02:38:00 -
[4962]
Originally by: Gorek Loc This must be record-breaking days for CCCP... they have posted at least 8 blogs, interviews and more within the last 3 days.
I wonder if they are trying to move focus from a bad thing to something else... as long as it's not the bad thing everybody is talking about.
Deflection, gotta love it. Ostriches, sand, and generally hoping this dies a death, and that not too many people close their accounts.
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Azraeljbs
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Posted - 2008.10.25 03:08:00 -
[4963]
Edited by: Azraeljbs on 25/10/2008 03:10:14 With recent economic developments worlwide people are closing accounts this simply gives them more of an excuse to do so....I was going to keep my accounts but I don't see EVE lasting more than another 2 years max...esp if the economy doesn't pick up, and CCP's devs learn some PR tactics and how to run an MMO buisness.
Does this and the rest of the sudden dev blogs look like a desperate attempt to lure players to the game to get fresh blood into EVE?...yes it does. Many are canceling their accounts..are these CCP's pathetic attempts to get some of those accounts back or replace them?
Or is CCP hurting so badly for cash they are looking desperate right now due to bad investment decisions?...only time will tell.
But I promise you did this stunt at the exact wrong time CCP and you will probably pay for it in the worst way. I'd hate to see EVE go offline for good, but if it does you did it to yourselves.
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IR Scoutar
Caldari State War Academy
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Posted - 2008.10.25 03:12:00 -
[4964]
i had to giggle **** at that commodore thing
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Rasik Argimater
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Posted - 2008.10.25 05:02:00 -
[4965]
None of us knows for sure yet what others are doing, but I have reduced my contribution to CCP's well being from $135/month ($1,620 annualized) to $75/month ($900 annualized). Those are just my accounts that have actually expired so far. Five more will expire between the end of Sep and 21 Nov. Will I keep them all inactive? No, I'm not quite ready for that. I will cycle through them, hopefully achieving an average of somewhere between 2-4 active accounts. I have some minimal corp and alliance business to attend to until I hand those off to other ppl.
I have ceased researching, manufacturing, mining, trading and running missions. Those are all things that play into the medium and long term, and I don't see a medium or long term for me in Eve anymore.
Some review:
- Unsubbed training was never a bug. It was an active element of the addictive nature of Eve. It was a powerful lure to draw ppl back into Eve. The benefit of unsubbed training could only be realized by reactivating the lapsed account.
- Any seasoned programmer can easily figure out how they impemented training in Eve: Training does not involve game play. Training completion is actually an out-of-game waiting period. You can't use the new skill until the waiting period has run its course. But it's just a real world date/time. There is no training "process," there is no server load whatsoever, there is no "service" being provided by CCP.
- Since the acquisition of a skillbook and the player action to submit it for training a step can only be done while an account is active, and since the benefit of a training step can only be seen and enjoyed while an account is active, whether an account goes inactive between those two events is irrelevant.
- Since training, whether subbed or unsubbed, involves no server activity or processing of any kind, any claim of "free service" is a lie. It is more reasonable for us to view training steps as having been completely bought and paid for at the moment we click to start them, since the training is not a process and the completion is a real-world date/time -- a waiting period -- and nothing more.
- The way CCP originally designed and implemented training in Eve was simply brilliant. It was also entirely natural that completion of the current training step was unaffected by account status. To make it any other way would have required more work and server load (which they have now done).
- Why a company would have cut off a crucial element in its lure to draw people back into subscribing is incomrehensible. Even if they had done this without completely enraging so many subscribers, it would have cost them a drop in the level of active subscriptions. As it is it will certainly cost them a significant drop.
- There has been no information before or now that char farming has been a problem. This has only come up in wild speculation by ill-informed posters, most of whom lack the experience in Eve to understand how multiple accounts are actually used by real ppl.
- All the ppl I have met and worked with who have multiple accounts use them, often all the time. I don't personally know anyone who keeps one or more accounts inactive most of the time for the purpose of training. Maybe it happens but it can't be all that common.
- Except for those at lofty levels such as capital ship pilot, those of us with fewer than, say, 35 million skill points have few opportunities to train a long skill while an account is inactive. Those claiming that this is rampant should try it. On my skill paths I have had precious few skills even close to 30 days and those generally were not available to train when I had to let accounts go inactive.
(continued...) |
Rasik Argimater
|
Posted - 2008.10.25 05:33:00 -
[4966]
(...continued, but don't know how to make the numbered list thingie pick up at 10)
- CCP first claimed this was a bug. That was a blatant lie, as it was obviously part of their lure to draw lapsed subscribers back into Eve.
- Then CCP said it was kind of an unintentional thing that they had never gotten around to blocking.
- Then they tried to claim lack of responsibility for unsubbed training being documented in the Player Guides.
- Then finally, in the last excuse for a live deblog, they admitted the change was made "for business reasons."
- "Business reasons" means they stupidly thought they could get more money by blocking unsubbed training. They completely lost sight of why this feature was in the game to begin with, and completely miscalculated the effect of blocking it.
- Next they may forget why chars, training and possessions (stuff) of inactive accounts remain in place for at least six months. That would be a hoot... first, cut off the incentive for lapsed accounts to resubscribe, then cut off all the investment ppl have if their account remains inactive for, say, 30 days. I'd love that. It would certainly settle the whole issue of whether or not to play Eve at all, for me, once and for all.
- The executive(s) who decided this "for business reasons" should become unemployed. But they won't. Torfi Frans should be fired. But he won't. T20 should have been fired but he still works for CCP. I guess they never fire anyone. Must be an Icelandic clannish "us against the world" kind of thing.
- The statements in this thread and the previous, inexplicably locked one by ppl saying they are quitting or consolidating and reducing their accounts, are much more believable than the typical emoragequit posts at other times. This is simply because this nerf changes the economics of having multiple accounts, especially in the common case of not having enough computer and monitors to run them all at the same time (as I can). It also removes a powerful incentive to resubscribe for anyone whose account lapses for any reason whatsoever.
- Since we cannot know the mix of 60d GTCs, 30 or more day CC cycles or other forms of payment, it's difficult to predict just when the greatest effect of account cancelations will hit. My guess is 2-4 weeks from Oct 15, with effects continuing but tapering off during the entire following year.
- The longer CCP tries to stonewall this, the more people will become enraged, and the more enraged people will become.
- I've already made up my mind, and with a reduction from nine paid accounts to 2, 3, maybe 4, I'm probably more than making up for a few of the fanbois who seem to like whatever game breaker du jour CCP shoves up their rears.
- I don't think this will quite kill off Eve, but if it does, I will not shed any tears. CCP has created such an unpleasant flavor surrounding the game that I don't enjoy any aspect of it anymore.
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IR Scoutar
Caldari State War Academy
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Posted - 2008.10.25 05:48:00 -
[4967]
Originally by: Rasik Argimater Stuff
nice writeup |
Haldane Fisher
Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.
|
Posted - 2008.10.25 07:00:00 -
[4968]
Originally by: Rasik Argimater Stuff
I completely agree. And will be adding some of it to my bio's on currently active chars.
Please people, if any of you genuine care about this issue, don't leave it for other people to pick up the flag, even if its just opening a discussion about it in your nearest local or indeed corp chat...just do something to bring this to the attention of the playerbase.
"Skills continue training even if you are logged off or if your account is inactive (in the second scenario you can't change skill training, though)." |
NiBorg
Dominus Nihil EVE
|
Posted - 2008.10.25 07:30:00 -
[4969]
While I understand CCPÆs decision to do this I too do not agree with it.
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Hudhayfah
|
Posted - 2008.10.25 07:38:00 -
[4970]
Just find some midle ground.
I understant that some people are abusing the system, like players training very long skills, or char sellers, just make an atribute to those skills stating that they will stop training after x time if the account is not reactivated. Or give a resonable lapse of time before the training stop, let's look at 1 month or so. That I think will make everybody hapy.
EVE is realy a very god game, I wont be quiting, but if any of my accounts (3) expires I wont't rush to reactivate them, usualy I used to set a skill of 15, 20 or so days, and activate it before the finishing of the training, just to rest a bit of them, with this feature taken way, I may activate it in the next day or in two months... there will be nothing other then needing the char to use the account.
Thanks
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CaptainOkuna
|
Posted - 2008.10.25 07:51:00 -
[4971]
Originally by: Rasik Argimater Stuff
QFT.
The thing is having publicized the 'bug' they will never change their mind 'abuse' would be rife.
Whne I started this game CCP were something different in the MMO community; they're just another gaming manufacturer now. |
Seth Vorlar
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Posted - 2008.10.25 09:30:00 -
[4972]
Commodore anyone :)
Wake up CCP you wont get the community to ignore your "FIX" they will check it sooner or a little bit later.
btw, even if i love EVE, make that -3 out of 4 acc for me, i wont resub my alts, thy for making this descision for me and saving my money.
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Boomer Aires
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Posted - 2008.10.25 09:30:00 -
[4973]
Originally by: Rasik Argimater Stuff
you pinpointed it exactly. bangup job.
Regarding the "business reasons" have a look at their annual report. juicy! And I found this one:
Originally by: kan han
...
The more I think about this, the bigger the desaster gets for CCP. They just made a mistake and are not willing to deal with it. I've never seen something compareable in the last years. CCP is a Software Company on a user based payment model. Even thought most of the mistakes reveal to be on the communication side, I am pretty shure that there must be something bigger in the back:
- About 40% loss in sales even before October 15th. **outch**
- According to the 2008 Report about 16 Million US-$ were invested in Stocks. It might be even more at the time of the Crash. That was 34% of the Companies Assets. **outch**
- CCP just increased their Expenses A LOT last year. They doubled the workforce.
- Since March the number of Subscriptions does not rise any longer. **outch**
- A Bank they use a lot, probably their House Bank, is Kaupthing. This Bank did collapse. **outch** **outch** **outch**
...
Does anyone knows how the working people in Iceland get their loan if the banks have closed?
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Kellen Pikara
Merch Industrial GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.10.25 09:47:00 -
[4974]
I'm done with this pile of ****. Break it some more, maybe you can alienate more of the people that like it.
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h zebra
|
Posted - 2008.10.25 11:22:00 -
[4975]
as a player who has teh reached the point of capital skill training, im looking at endless lv5 skills that just suck the life out of the game. training cap reps 5(34days) carrier 5(61days) logistics 5(20days +30days of skills needed) and then not to mention all the jump skills and extras you need to get good in one.
can i just give you (ccp) teh cash for the duration of teh skills and just get them. cos i cant be asked waching 6 or 7 lv5 skills take the next 9 months or so.
i rather liked not being able to use that account while that long arsed clock ran down. at least i didnt think it was a waste of my time as i do now. i had 6 accounts, now down to 5. will be 2 soon
zeb |
Durty Nell
Caldari State War Academy
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Posted - 2008.10.25 12:04:00 -
[4976]
Originally by: Gideon Fawkes
1). Please, enlighten this misguided ignorant soul 2). Read your EULA. 3). When and if you win the suit mentioned 4). Multiple account bitterness 5). Bitter about pirate gankers
I do sympathize with some of you, game change on this earth shaking scale may well injure your IN-GAME wallets, budget projections or mental well being for some time. If the latter, stop reading now, grab a yellow pages, and divert those ghost traning dollars to a good therapist. o/
Ok, ok since your posts tone is accusatory at best, bitter and twisted at worst IÆll allow myself to bite this clearly trolling line, just this once.
First of all let me challenge you to a little task. A task IÆm sure a misguided, ignoramus such as you wonÆt find too difficult. Search for my characters post count in this thread.
Let me state that I am very aware that EVE and everything in it belongs to CCP and that they may do as they see fit with it.
At no time during the making of this thread have I stated my position with regards to accounts or how CCP has handled this affair. You can rest assured that I wonÆt be canceling my account nor have I any intention to cancel my account as yet. I certainly donÆt think CCP are evil either. They did what they felt they needed to do. They stated why they felt the need to do so. Wither I agree with CCPÆs decision has never been discussed and is therefore irrelevant, my further commentary on the subject here would merely serve as a tautology, and might I add, that none of your postulations were contained within CCPÆs original statement, which, even after amendment, would still have a long way to travel in order to reach the level of conjecture displayed throughout your writings.
However many people have posted in this thread telling of their disappointment.
You then decide on yet another blinding follow up post, this time off on some disjointed tangent about multiple accounting and how the EULA affects account holders, law suits and the best places to file them. Of course this latest diatribe has absolutely nothing to do with anything I said with respect to your initial points. What you fail miserably to notice is that other than the petition system there is no formal customer complaint section for these players who love to play eve, therefore they have only one or two options.
They can simply say nothing and remove their subscriptions, possibly leading to the remarks I made in my previous posts closing sentence, or they can try making their voices heard through these very forums in the hope of generating a modi-c-um (cant believe this is a sensored word) of understanding. This was not your cue to troll post here berating them with poorly thought out argument, which incidentally I merely pointed out. I most certainly cannot be held responsible for how you feel after having done so, after all it was your argument.
Finally you are entitled to your opinion no matter how devoid of any coherent thought it is, misguided and ignorant you may be, however benevolence is certainly one quality you cannot be accused of.
Now IÆm done with your ranting!
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Hot Cake
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Posted - 2008.10.25 14:43:00 -
[4977]
"Reserved for the next lie"
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Tivookz
Caldari IMPERIAL SENATE Pure.
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Posted - 2008.10.25 15:49:00 -
[4978]
Originally by: Rasik Argimater None of us knows for sure yet what others are doing, but I have reduced my contribution to CCP's well being from $135/month ($1,620 annualized) to $75/month ($900 annualized). Those are just my accounts that have actually expired so far. Five more will expire between the end of Sep and 21 Nov. Will I keep them all inactive? No, I'm not quite ready for that. I will cycle through them, hopefully achieving an average of somewhere between 2-4 active accounts. I have some minimal corp and alliance business to attend to until I hand those off to other ppl.
I have ceased researching, manufacturing, mining, trading and running missions. Those are all things that play into the medium and long term, and I don't see a medium or long term for me in Eve anymore.
Some review:
- Unsubbed training was never a bug. It was an active element of the addictive nature of Eve. It was a powerful lure to draw ppl back into Eve. The benefit of unsubbed training could only be realized by reactivating the lapsed account.
- Any seasoned programmer can easily figure out how they impemented training in Eve: Training does not involve game play. Training completion is actually an out-of-game waiting period. You can't use the new skill until the waiting period has run its course. But it's just a real world date/time. There is no training "process," there is no server load whatsoever, there is no "service" being provided by CCP.
- Since the acquisition of a skillbook and the player action to submit it for training a step can only be done while an account is active, and since the benefit of a training step can only be seen and enjoyed while an account is active, whether an account goes inactive between those two events is irrelevant.
- Since training, whether subbed or unsubbed, involves no server activity or processing of any kind, any claim of "free service" is a lie. It is more reasonable for us to view training steps as having been completely bought and paid for at the moment we click to start them, since the training is not a process and the completion is a real-world date/time -- a waiting period -- and nothing more.
- The way CCP originally designed and implemented training in Eve was simply brilliant. It was also entirely natural that completion of the current training step was unaffected by account status. To make it any other way would have required more work and server load (which they have now done).
- Why a company would have cut off a crucial element in its lure to draw people back into subscribing is incomrehensible. Even if they had done this without completely enraging so many subscribers, it would have cost them a drop in the level of active subscriptions. As it is it will certainly cost them a significant drop.
- There has been no information before or now that char farming has been a problem. This has only come up in wild speculation by ill-informed posters, most of whom lack the experience in Eve to understand how multiple accounts are actually used by real ppl.
- All the ppl I have met and worked with who have multiple accounts use them, often all the time. I don't personally know anyone who keeps one or more accounts inactive most of the time for the purpose of training. Maybe it happens but it can't be all that common.
- Except for those at lofty levels such as capital ship pilot, those of us with fewer than, say, 35 million skill points have few opportunities to train a long skill while an account is inactive. Those claiming that this is rampant should try it. On my skill paths I have had precious few skills even close to 30 days and those generally were not available to train when I had to let accounts go inactive.
(continued...)
Just finished reading your two posts and I just have one thing to say:
Could not have said it better myself.
Tiv __________________________________________________
Hating Cash Craving Productions since oct 15th 2008 |
Richard Aiel
Caldari Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2008.10.25 17:15:00 -
[4979]
Ridding the game of unsubbed training cause some ppl are abusing it is like removing isk from the game cuz ppl buy it with real currency. ------------------------------------------------ CCP you are your own worst enemy. http://eve.coldfront.net/status/tranquility look at that |
Joey Meow
MURAKAMI INDUSTRIES
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Posted - 2008.10.25 17:25:00 -
[4980]
Originally by: Rasik Argimater
Some review:
- Unsubbed training was never a bug. It was an active element of the addictive nature of Eve. It was a powerful lure to draw ppl back into Eve. The benefit of unsubbed training could only be realized by reactivating the lapsed account.
- Any seasoned programmer can easily figure out how they impemented training in Eve: Training does not involve game play. Training completion is actually an out-of-game waiting period. You can't use the new skill until the waiting period has run its course. But it's just a real world date/time. There is no training "process," there is no server load whatsoever, there is no "service" being provided by CCP.
- Since the acquisition of a skillbook and the player action to submit it for training a step can only be done while an account is active, and since the benefit of a training step can only be seen and enjoyed while an account is active, whether an account goes inactive between those two events is irrelevant.
- Since training, whether subbed or unsubbed, involves no server activity or processing of any kind, any claim of "free service" is a lie. It is more reasonable for us to view training steps as having been completely bought and paid for at the moment we click to start them, since the training is not a process and the completion is a real-world date/time -- a waiting period -- and nothing more.
- The way CCP originally designed and implemented training in Eve was simply brilliant. It was also entirely natural that completion of the current training step was unaffected by account status. To make it any other way would have required more work and server load (which they have now done).
- Why a company would have cut off a crucial element in its lure to draw people back into subscribing is incomrehensible. Even if they had done this without completely enraging so many subscribers, it would have cost them a drop in the level of active subscriptions. As it is it will certainly cost them a significant drop.
- There has been no information before or now that char farming has been a problem. This has only come up in wild speculation by ill-informed posters, most of whom lack the experience in Eve to understand how multiple accounts are actually used by real ppl.
- All the ppl I have met and worked with who have multiple accounts use them, often all the time. I don't personally know anyone who keeps one or more accounts inactive most of the time for the purpose of training. Maybe it happens but it can't be all that common.
- Except for those at lofty levels such as capital ship pilot, those of us with fewer than, say, 35 million skill points have few opportunities to train a long skill while an account is inactive. Those claiming that this is rampant should try it. On my skill paths I have had precious few skills even close to 30 days and those generally were not available to train when I had to let accounts go inactive.
(continued...)
red]I am just quoting this so CCP Zulupark can find a moment to see it, since he did say:
[quote = CCp Zulupark]
We'd reconsider if 1 person quit and the argument he made was valid. We wouldn't if 25% quit and there was no logical argument behind it. As I've said, we do listen quite extensively to our community when doing balancing, it's not the amount of feedback we get but the quality.
Lets hope CCP does not consider us to be the 25% with "invalid" arguments.
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Joey Meow
MURAKAMI INDUSTRIES
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Posted - 2008.10.25 17:32:00 -
[4981]
Edited by: Joey Meow on 25/10/2008 17:34:14
Originally by: Rasik Argimater (...continued, but don't know how to make the numbered list thingie pick up at 10)
- CCP first claimed this was a bug. That was a blatant lie, as it was obviously part of their lure to draw lapsed subscribers back into Eve.
- Then CCP said it was kind of an unintentional thing that they had never gotten around to blocking.
- Then they tried to claim lack of responsibility for unsubbed training being documented in the Player Guides.
- Then finally, in the last excuse for a live deblog, they admitted the change was made "for business reasons."
- "Business reasons" means they stupidly thought they could get more money by blocking unsubbed training. They completely lost sight of why this feature was in the game to begin with, and completely miscalculated the effect of blocking it.
- Next they may forget why chars, training and possessions (stuff) of inactive accounts remain in place for at least six months. That would be a hoot... first, cut off the incentive for lapsed accounts to resubscribe, then cut off all the investment ppl have if their account remains inactive for, say, 30 days. I'd love that. It would certainly settle the whole issue of whether or not to play Eve at all, for me, once and for all.
- The executive(s) who decided this "for business reasons" should become unemployed. But they won't. Torfi Frans should be fired. But he won't. T20 should have been fired but he still works for CCP. I guess they never fire anyone. Must be an Icelandic clannish "us against the world" kind of thing.
- The statements in this thread and the previous, inexplicably locked one by ppl saying they are quitting or consolidating and reducing their accounts, are much more believable than the typical emoragequit posts at other times. This is simply because this nerf changes the economics of having multiple accounts, especially in the common case of not having enough computer and monitors to run them all at the same time (as I can). It also removes a powerful incentive to resubscribe for anyone whose account lapses for any reason whatsoever.
- Since we cannot know the mix of 60d GTCs, 30 or more day CC cycles or other forms of payment, it's difficult to predict just when the greatest effect of account cancelations will hit. My guess is 2-4 weeks from Oct 15, with effects continuing but tapering off during the entire following year.
- The longer CCP tries to stonewall this, the more people will become enraged, and the more enraged people will become.
- I've already made up my mind, and with a reduction from nine paid accounts to 2, 3, maybe 4, I'm probably more than making up for a few of the fanbois who seem to like whatever game breaker du jour CCP shoves up their rears.
- I don't think this will quite kill off Eve, but if it does, I will not shed any tears. CCP has created such an unpleasant flavor surrounding the game that I don't enjoy any aspect of it anymore.
Originally by: CCP Zulupark
We'd reconsider if 1 person quit and the argument he made was valid. We wouldn't if 25% quit and there was no logical argument behind it. As I've said, we do listen quite extensively to our community when doing balancing, it's not the amount of feedback we get but the quality.
Just so it is all on one page... by the way, Jinx Barker got banned for suggesting that CCP fire torfifrans .
Lets see if CCP actually listens to a good argument, shall we?
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Cassius Hawkeye
Minmatar Reikoku Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.10.25 17:37:00 -
[4982]
Edited by: Cassius Hawkeye on 25/10/2008 17:39:04 *Intermission*
Just poasting to say I fully support the removal of ghost training. 'Free' time isn't fair to those that pay continuously to train ALTS, and LONG SKILLS.
*continue whining now*
Ty! |
Voxis
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Posted - 2008.10.25 17:46:00 -
[4983]
Originally by: Cassius Hawkeye
*Intermission*
Just poasting to say I fully support the removal of ghost training. 'Free' time isn't fair to those that pay continuously to train ALTS, and LONG SKILLS.
*continue whining now*
Ty!
What do you do for a living? Just curious, thats all.
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James Marshalll
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.10.25 18:05:00 -
[4984]
Edited by: James Marshalll on 25/10/2008 18:06:45 Edited by: James Marshalll on 25/10/2008 18:05:26
Originally by: Cassius Hawkeye Edited by: Cassius Hawkeye on 25/10/2008 17:39:04 *Intermission*
Just poasting to say I fully support the removal of ghost training. 'Free' time isn't fair to those that pay continuously to train ALTS, and LONG SKILLS.
*continue whining now*
Ty!
Neither was playing the game normally to try and get t2 bpo's while your corp was getting them for free, or the fact your corp/alliance mates would get ships back lost in grid lock fleet fights, while others from your "enemies" didn't.
I support the removal of BoB as an alliance, Reikoku as a corp, and the CCP GM team to be off shore, out of company employees with no ties to the game, or I want a refund for all the unfair playtime I had to PAY for while CCP was giving you free legs up on the rest of the eve populace.
The LAST alliance who has "JACK S***" to say about "fairness" is your band of scrubs who only cry "fair" when it fits you since the majority of your "core" players used and abused the system in more ways then one for the last 4 years.
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Talsha Talamar
Amarr Nebula Rasa Holdings Nebula Rasa
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Posted - 2008.10.25 18:21:00 -
[4985]
Originally by: Cassius Hawkeye Edited by: Cassius Hawkeye on 25/10/2008 17:39:04 *Intermission* [...] *continue whining now* Ty!
Funny how a good share of posts against this change offer reasonable arguments, seems to be written by people able to form and formulate their own opinions, while the vaste majority for the post either are oneliner like the above, or simply repeat mindless mantras.
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Ra Vhim
Black Bag Ops
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Posted - 2008.10.25 18:41:00 -
[4986]
Originally by: Joey Meow
Just so it is all on one page... by the way, Jinx Barker got banned for suggesting that CCP fire torfifrans . Maybe edit that out, since it is now considered a personal attack to ask for a developer to be fired, or their resignation, I saw them delete a post asking Zulupark to resign.
That should not surprise anyone really. That CCP panics, refuse to respond on the forum, swings the ban hammer and locking threads right left and centre is pretty much how they hope to contain things that makes the players really upset. Sooner or later things calm down and CCP believe the problem is over, while in reality people instead lose trust in CCP and give up trying to get answers from them, which is the real problem.
I don’t care if Ghost Training is disabled or not, but I do care how they deal with the situation. If anything makes me end my accounts then it is because I don’t have trust in CCP (or possibly that the game change in a direction I really don’t like). This whole unnecessary situation is centred around how CCP dealt with it, and now they choose not to deal with it by trying to ignore it away. It really annoys me. It feels like it is more likely that I can get the Pope to explain and react to this then CCP.
Anyway. I will prolly resub when my accounts goes inactive, but I will not recommend Eve to anyone I know. If I lose trust in CCP it feel like I would ask too much if I tell friends to trust them. CCP started this ****storm, they will have to navigate through it themselves. It’s pretty clear by now that they want it that way, it isn’t exactly like they are trying to open up a dialogue with the community and try to find a solution to peoples’ concerns.
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Joey Meow
MURAKAMI INDUSTRIES
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Posted - 2008.10.25 19:33:00 -
[4987]
Originally by: CCP Zulupark Regarding "Ghost Training"
Ghost training: I think we could have handled the original announcement better, I completely agree with that, and we have implemented procedures to make sure that doesn't happen again. What is stated in t0rfifrans's blog however is something that we 100% stand by.
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Squirrrel
Gallente Squirrrel Industries
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Posted - 2008.10.25 19:56:00 -
[4988]
Originally by: Joey Meow
Originally by: CCP Zulupark Regarding "Ghost Training"
Ghost training: I think we could have handled the original announcement better, I completely agree with that, and we have implemented procedures to make sure that doesn't happen again. What is stated in t0rfifrans's blog however is something that we 100% stand by.
And I hope that the cancellation threats/promises are something that many of the player base 100% stand by too.
For the record, I support Jinx Barker 100% too, and I don't really care if CCP can't accept the opinions. |
Richard Aiel
Caldari Caldari Provisions
|
Posted - 2008.10.25 20:12:00 -
[4989]
I support Jinx too and its funny that theyre choosing to ban ppl over saying ppl need to be fired (like whoever came up with this idea) when it was well ok to say it about t20 when that went down. ------------------------------------------------ CCP you are your own worst enemy. http://eve.coldfront.net/status/tranquility look at that |
WakyWooky
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Posted - 2008.10.25 21:04:00 -
[4990]
Just so it is all on one page... by the way, Jinx Barker got banned for suggesting that CCP fire torfifrans . Maybe edit that out, since it is now considered a personal attack to ask for a developer to be fired, or their resignation, I saw them delete a post asking Zulupark to resign.
IF THAT TRU ITS JUST LAME
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Corbin Swift
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Posted - 2008.10.25 21:06:00 -
[4991]
Originally by: Squirrrel
And I hope that the cancellation threats/promises are something that many of the player base 100% stand by too.
200% dude. I'm 100% canceling my subscriptions, it's already done. I'm also going to boycott World of Darkness due to their attitude to players/customers. They're spending all their time and our money designing f**king costumes for the avatars when there's loads of critical bugs and important missing features in the game. BPO/BPC display, broken COSMOS missions, containers that forget their settings, inabilty to search containers and cargoholds remotely, skill queues, jump planner... CCP can survive by gnawing on whalebones for all I care. The competition is gonna blow them outta the water in a couple of years.
Corbin
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cptwooks
|
Posted - 2008.10.25 23:48:00 -
[4992]
Subs since Ghost Training: We usually don't disclose information like that but it was in the hundreds.
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Rasik Argimater
|
Posted - 2008.10.26 00:16:00 -
[4993]
Originally by: Joey Meow Just so it is all on one page... by the way, Jinx Barker got banned for suggesting that CCP fire torfifrans . Maybe edit that out, since it is now considered a personal attack to ask for a developer to be fired, or their resignation, I saw them delete a post asking Zulupark to resign.
Lets see if CCP actually listens to a good argument, shall we?
My two lengthy enumerated posts were actually much milder than much of what I have posted on this subject. If they choose to ban me, either from the forums or from the game, I can deal with that.
What is at stake in getting banned is the last few hundred dollars per year I plan to continue paying them even if they don't backtrack on the unsubbed training issue. If they ever ban me, for any reason whatsoever, they will lose the remainder of my subscription money.
Before they nerfed unsubbed training they were getting $1,620 from me on an annualized basis. At this moment four of my accounts have expired and not been reactivated, so they are losing $720 on an annualized basis. My other accounts expire between Sep 29 and Nov 21. If CCP continues to stonewall and doesn't reverse the unsubbed training nerf, I plan to average somewhere between two and four subs active throughout the year, so they will lose between $900 and $1260 per year. If they really want to lose the entire $1,620 per year all they have to do is something really stupid like banning me. Then instead of posting on the Eve forums I will post on every MMOG-related forum in the known universe. Oh yeah... that might even energize me to put some good forum software up and create an uncensored alternative to CCP's forums. Anyone can do that for a pittance using hosting services, but I also have my own servers and lots of experience creating internet presences for myself and for businesses in which I have an interest.
"Oh please Brer Fox, whatever you do, please don't throw me into the briar patch!"
...
"I was bred and born in the briar patch, Brer Fox. Born and bred in the briar patch."
Oh, and very kind thanks to those of you who acknowledged and agreed with my recent posts. I have noticed that a calmer, more reasoned approach has garnered more acknlowledgements than some of my earlier, shrill shrieking posted under various of my mains and alts. This is my sig? |
masty
Gallente Empyrean Ascendance
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Posted - 2008.10.26 02:27:00 -
[4994]
how can ccp not see what this honestly was? a way to entice people back to the game????
Yeah you lose interest like any normal person, set a long skill, come back and see whats better for you
i honestly dont know why they would remove a brilliant FEATURE to the gameplay when they know so many great looking MMORPG's are coming out in the near future.......... Screams stupidity at me
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Rasik Argimater
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Posted - 2008.10.26 02:55:00 -
[4995]
Just a minor point of info: yes, I run all nine of my accounts at the same time (when they're active). My PC setup:
Dell Precision 690 2 x 3.00 GHz Dual Core (total of 4 processor cores) . 64-bit support, virtualization support . 4 MB cache each . 1333 MHz Front Side Bus 8 GB ECC memory running at 533 MHz . (half is 667 but dragged down by the other half at 533) . (due to be upgraded soon to all 667 MHz memory) 80 GB SATA hard drive (due to be upgraded; I own 300+ disk drives) RD1000 removable disk drive (80GB to 500GB) 80GB USB drive 750GB USB drive EVGA GeForce 8800 GT 512 MB "Superclocked" graphics card 2 x 20" Dell LCD monitors at 1600x1200 resolution Windows XP Pro 64-bit (necessary to make use of >3 GB memory) 6 Mbit DSL with static IP 2 Mbit cable Internet with static IP
I run Eve windowed, at 1280x1024. This allows me to cascade the windows, 4 per monitor, with the last window pegged lower left on Monitor 2. In mining, all miner windows have cargo in the lower left, allowing ore drops into cargo to be visible across all windows.
I have to run Eve's Classic graphics, and Cache is set to "off."
As long as I make sure the starting memory footprint is small by killing off unnecessary background processes this computer is happy running nine Eve windows for many hours on end. My only regret is that I didn't get the 1KW model of the 690, with two 16-path PCIe slots for graphics cards. But at the time I acquired this machine I didn't know I would end up running nine Eve accounts.
I used to have some chars specialized to be miners and others to be haulers, while most also flew battlecruisers and battleships. Lately I have cross-trained most of them so my miners now fly haulers and my haulers have begun to fly Hulks.
All my miners have all mining-related skills max'd and the best mining implants, and I have both a Command Ship pilot and a Battlecruiser pilot capable of providing maximum mindlink boosts. Mining yield is 1867 per Strip II at 22 km range and 139.5 sec cycle. The only way I know of to get it any higher is the way-overpriced Michi implant.
My mining fleet usually consists of five Hulks, two expanded & rigged Iteron V haulers, the booster ship and a BS to discourage the riff-raff. This is a nearly perfect balance between mining yield and hauling capacity.
So... although I'm totally p-o'd about the unsubbed training nerf, I have no reason myself to intentionally expire any of my chars to train without using them actively in the game, unless CCP annoys me to the point at which I find it necessary to punish them financially. If I have fewer than all nine accounts active I can't mine at maximum capacity, or manufacture or research at max. Most of my chars are also trained for remote research and manuf job management, and I can easily busy all the manuf slots in an NPC station. I don't like the unsubbed training nerf because it was a nice, friendly feature that cost them nothing, and removing it makes no sense at all from CCP's standpoint of giving ppl an incentive to resubscribe.
I believe that stupid and erroneous decisions should have negative consequences. Within my own little universe I can guarantee that this nerf decision has negative consequences for CCP. I don't have to care whether I am the only one operating on this basis. I explain my basis for operating because it has worked for me to avoid severe frustration with vendors who screw up, and may work for others. The Dollars I spend with vendors are also my only truly effective weapon. I use that weapon with the same utter ruthlessness as 0.0 PvPers pop and podkill their adversaries. |
Vix633
|
Posted - 2008.10.26 03:52:00 -
[4996]
Edited by: Vix633 on 26/10/2008 03:56:28 Training skills while the account is inactive will at most rid you of one or two months subscription-the player of course will subscribe again to change skills. Once the character has been trained he will be used, if not, sold and then used therefore it will be paid for every month.-or whichever payment interval the user prefers. Its not a bug, its something that made me feel okay with opening another account. Bring it back, the community hates it being gone. Have some respect for your users and for your fellow pod pilots. Dont just wait for everyone to give up and forget about this. Reverse it.
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Decimo
DEATH'S LEGION
|
Posted - 2008.10.26 05:14:00 -
[4997]
Canceled my account a week ago. Albeit not entirely due to this, but since ghost training has been removed I won't have any incentive to make a 3rd coming back to this game, that's for sure. |
ReioS
|
Posted - 2008.10.26 05:51:00 -
[4998]
Originally by: Vix633 Edited by: Vix633 on 26/10/2008 03:56:28 Training skills while the account is inactive will at most rid you of one or two months subscription-the player of course will subscribe again to change skills. Once the character has been trained he will be used, if not, sold and then used therefore it will be paid for every month.-or whichever payment interval the user prefers. Its not a bug, its something that made me feel okay with opening another account. Bring it back, the community hates it being gone. Have some respect for your users and for your fellow pod pilots. Dont just wait for everyone to give up and forget about this. Reverse it.
This.
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Richard Aiel
Caldari Caldari Provisions
|
Posted - 2008.10.26 06:13:00 -
[4999]
Edited by: Richard Aiel on 26/10/2008 06:14:24
Originally by: Cassius Hawkeye Edited by: Cassius Hawkeye on 25/10/2008 17:39:04 *Intermission*
Just poasting to say I fully support the removal of ghost training. 'Free' time isn't fair to those that pay continuously to train ALTS, and LONG SKILLS.
*continue whining now*
Ty!
look! Devs not only play they post on alts too Oh how am I not surprised that the dev is in BoB too lol Irony |
Col Callahan
Caldari Oberon Incorporated Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2008.10.26 07:09:00 -
[5000]
Just stopped in to say one more eve online scandal swept neatly underneath the rug, good job, your customer support is getting better by the second.
Head lines read,"166 pages latter and developer CCP still fails."
This has been your b/tarded reporter live from CCP headquarters in fail land. |
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Haldane Fisher
Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.
|
Posted - 2008.10.26 07:43:00 -
[5001]
Originally by: Richard Aiel Edited by: Richard Aiel on 26/10/2008 06:14:24
Originally by: Cassius Hawkeye Edited by: Cassius Hawkeye on 25/10/2008 17:39:04 *Intermission*
Just poasting to say I fully support the removal of ghost training. 'Free' time isn't fair to those that pay continuously to train ALTS, and LONG SKILLS.
*continue whining now*
Ty!
look! Devs not only play they post on alts too Oh how am I not surprised that the dev is in BoB too lol Irony
It's strange that more members of bob are not crying out about this. I'm not sure if they've been told not to talk about it, what I can say is that on the bob corp forums I have access to there is 0 discussion.
As for bobdev comments...pure tin foil I'm afraid. And unfortunetly for Cassius...he just doesn't get it.
"Skills continue training even if you are logged off or if your account is inactive (in the second scenario you can't change skill training, though)." |
Farouq Rizer
|
Posted - 2008.10.26 08:53:00 -
[5002]
Edited by: Farouq Rizer on 26/10/2008 08:53:33 Well my only account goes inactive in 2 weeks. Removing the Ghost training wasen't what ticked me off, it was the way CCP flatout lied and tried to reverse what they first offcialy said.
I really respected CCP for taking a risk and making such a unique and complex game sucessfull, but I just can't understand why they would change a major game mechanic 5 years later, give only a couple days notice, and give the most embarrsing reason for doing it.
If only E&B was still alive, DAM YOU EA!
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LePak Muule
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Posted - 2008.10.26 09:08:00 -
[5003]
I really do understand why everyone is up in arms about this. I myself run 3 accounts and sometimes do juggle them around if I know that I won't have time to play them all. In my opinion, CCP should introduce reduced levels of ghost training.
A. It'll be fairer to those who are still currently subscribing. (If say the ghost trained accounts were learning at 25 percent speed). B. Give subscribers who are going on hiatus something to look forward to if they genuinely need to take a break. The .25 speed training will make the time horizon for those attempting to game the system a bit more difficult...
Perhaps they should also offer the option of allowing people to purchase ghost training at 50 percent subscription fee. Where you can only train skills but not interact with the game in any other way (perhaps allowing them to forum troll still :) )
I admit that I was one of the many that rage-quitted and cancelled my accounts. To me, CCP is like that abusive spouse that you really do love and keep coming back to for more nerfs/pimp slaps. I keep cheating on CCP with other companies like Funcom+SOE+EA, but none of them has really made me fall in love...
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Gabriel Virtus
Cassandra's Light Caeruleum Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.10.26 09:40:00 -
[5004]
This whole thing has been quite eye-opening. CCP has dealt with this in a way that makes me believe that they couldn't really care less about their player base. This is quite funny considering the core player base is the only reason this game has existed for so long. It seems to me like they are just shooting themselves in the foot constantly. The only real way we can respond to this sort of behavior and attitude is to quite. I am never renewing 2 of my 3 accounts due to this nonsense. I have never used ghosttrianing before, but CCP just lost a long term customer. Companies that treat customers like this won't last long and they do not deserve to.
Frankly, anyone that just points out the EULA and says CCP can do anything they want is missing the point. No one is arguing that they cannot. They are saying that they SHOULD not and I think most of their reasons are entirely legitamate and well thought-out.
-2 accounts -GV
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Lusulpher
Raddick Explorations BlackWater.
|
Posted - 2008.10.26 10:38:00 -
[5005]
Edited by: Lusulpher on 26/10/2008 10:45:03 If people are seriously cancelling their alts over this AND quitting, please send me your stuff...
I will continue playing and whining until skill queue is put in by CSM or whoever. This is not Central America, stay and fight for what is yours dammit.
Don't know what all this bumloving is about how alts are so needed, I get EVERYTHING done by using teamwork with other players, sometimes total strangers. I roleplay LIFE in a game! I don't have several other clones waiting to bail me out, why should that be a gamestyle?
Anything that imbalances the real world economy also better not show up in my damn gamn either, like say a myriad of economy-breaking tax loopholes and bad(greedy,selfish) decisions to acquire money and services that aren't yours...that lead to world banks failing...I'm not going to help bail you out in RL, so clean up your act ingame.
Send it to Lusulpher, post with my main, play with my main, die with my main. STFU and open contracts.
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CommanderWez
|
Posted - 2008.10.26 10:58:00 -
[5006]
Edited by: CommanderWez on 26/10/2008 10:59:51
Quote: Besides, how are you being any less active at improving your character than someone with an active account? All you can do is set a single long skill training, and that requires just as much activity on your part whether you're subscribed or not. This is a poor choice of justification.
As others have suggested, this might actually have a negative net impact on your total income, as people leaving the game will no longer have the option to leave a skill going in case they decide to return later; they won't have something new to come back to. - Kazuo Ishiguro
Kazuo says it all really...
This is a bad idea, I myself have had points where I took a break from EVE for a month or two while leaving a long skill to train. When I came back I'd be able to fly a new ship - it was motivation to come back!
I'm dissapointed with you CCP, I thought you were decent...
*sighs*
Wes |
Squirrrel
Gallente Squirrrel Industries
|
Posted - 2008.10.26 11:15:00 -
[5007]
Originally by: Lusulpher
I will continue playing and whining until skill queue is put in by CSM or whoever. This is not Central America, stay and fight for what is yours dammit.
You ever hear the saying that the pen is mightier than the sword? Quitting seems to be the only thing CCP might listen to, and I'm not being charged for trying to make my point either. In effect they are being charged as they aren't getting our money. We're just taking the power back and they themselves need to adapt or die if more people get disenchanted with them.
Originally by: Lusulpher Anything that imbalances the real world economy also better not show up in my damn gamn either, like say a myriad of economy-breaking tax loopholes and bad(greedy,selfish) decisions to acquire money and services that aren't yours...that lead to world banks failing...I'm not going to help bail you out in RL, so clean up your act ingame.
You're the one asking people for their stuff. Maybe you just roleplay a hypocrite...
Originally by: Lusulpher
STFU and open contracts.
No. Ball is yours. What you going to do with it now hotshot?
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Sandy Minge
|
Posted - 2008.10.26 11:17:00 -
[5008]
Originally by: Haldane Fisher
It's strange that more members of bob are not crying out about this. I'm not sure if they've been told not to talk about it, what I can say is that on the bob corp forums I have access to there is 0 discussion.
As for bobdev comments...pure tin foil I'm afraid. And unfortunetly for Cassius...he just doesn't get it.
LOL, get a clue Dewd - there is a 3 page discussion on the forums with ppl disagreeing with CCPs direction!
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Tasty Bit
Gallente UNITED STAR SYNDICATE
|
Posted - 2008.10.26 11:31:00 -
[5009]
Originally by: Lusulpher Edited by: Lusulpher on 26/10/2008 10:45:03 If people are seriously cancelling their alts over this AND quitting, please send me your stuff...
As an aside, can we please get a block feature for the forums? The above wasn't funny the first 50 trillion times it was used, either. |
Jevus
Gallente
|
Posted - 2008.10.26 11:36:00 -
[5010]
fyi -1 account |
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AltSpying 101
|
Posted - 2008.10.26 12:12:00 -
[5011]
It seems any way you look at it there is no way to return back to the status quo This 'so called' status quo was obviously not to CCPS benefit, or so thats how they saw it
Questions that may (or may not :P) help CCP/player to better understand/empathise with each others situation:
Was the change more a business decision than a gameplay enhancement of the game?
Had anyone ever read a single forum in protest of inactive skill trainers prior to its removal?
Will this change ever make it fair for new members of eve, now or at any point in the future?
Does the community now feel gamplay fairness has been restored, or did you feel there was nothing to be fixed in the first place?
Were CCPs feelings possibly hurt, due to increased numbers of players skilling and not actually playing/enjoying their game, or their wallets?
If the point to remove this feature was to give CCP a 'fairer' amount of revenue for their services, wouldn't unsubbing accounts and a reduced active user base go against the whole point of the change? If so why are doing this?!? Oh, so you dont think its fair?
There was no status quo for CCP as a business During the last Live Dev Blog, it was literally said that, it's unfair to CCP as a business (to give away things for free). This just didn't make sense, to allow players to not pay and still recieve a service from CCP (what were we thinking).
Having listened to the blog, the true motive for the change seemed to be more of a business decision than one to improve gamplay. During the blog there was no mention of fairness inbalace in the game between players. When spoken of, this was soley unfair to CCP alone.
CCP and eve players are losing out If even half of what I've read about members leaving because of this, they will hurt CCPs revenue. Despite the fact changes were made to make the player/CCP balance fairer. With capsuleers benefitting without paying for it. Now where's the fairness to CCP now?They didn't expect to hurt their revenue source, the players, so severely. It's a grave shame CCP/player relations have suffered such a blow.
The players are losing out all over the place. New members will have to pay a premium over members who have had the privilage(?) to train a skill. All they can do is 'pay n play,' as it is with everyother MMORPG. Those that no longer have this 'free service' from CCP are re-thinking their financial situation. To take an eve break now; They now have to either exit eve and halt character growth entirely, or continue to pay to advance their characters SP while away.
We did not expect this type of reaction (CCP) Now the change has been made, I have to say the way players are reacting does not seem to lend itself to CCPs business/gamplay decision. The change made to provide CCP with 'fairer' business returns, with CCP now subscribing to a 'you pay n' play' (training is playing) business model.
The main uproar could be that players have not played eve online, for the last five years, regarding it as a simple 'pay n' play' game. Mainly because it has not been that at all (yes, yes, it'd neither been advertised as such either, untill now). Eve players had grown accustomed to a unique way (game feature?) to combine 'pay n' play' & 'AFK skill train' while away from the game. This of course saved some alot of money, while also increasing an incentive to return to the same eve they left.
Players have already stated they come back because of either:
a) their skill has leveled up b) new game improvements to try out c) they have time for eve again d) another reason
A player now has a new list to choose from when their sub runs dry. Will they return because:
w) no skill countdown timer on EVEMON x) they feel hurt by CCP caused by poor PR y) players leaving eve as an act of protest z) their best friend(s) left the game due to one of the above
xxx
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Haldane Fisher
Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.
|
Posted - 2008.10.26 12:30:00 -
[5012]
Originally by: Sandy Minge
Originally by: Haldane Fisher
It's strange that more members of bob are not crying out about this. I'm not sure if they've been told not to talk about it, what I can say is that on the bob corp forums I have access to there is 0 discussion.
As for bobdev comments...pure tin foil I'm afraid. And unfortunetly for Cassius...he just doesn't get it.
LOL, get a clue Dewd - there is a 3 page discussion on the forums with ppl disagreeing with CCPs direction!
What part of bob corp forums do you not understand? |
hopper2j2
Caldari Kazoo RnD Enterprises
|
Posted - 2008.10.26 13:34:00 -
[5013]
So u guys think that stonewalling and ignoring this will make it go away.
167 pages nearly 5000 posts most of whom have alt accts. Then u have the people who don't reply in these forum but will either quit alts or quit altogether.
You think doing this would not hurt u financially. 250,000 subscribers, how many of those would be alt accts?
U've lost my trust in you as a company with your twisting of the truth, and the handling of the customer base. The only good job you are doing is messing up yourselves and distancing yourselves from your customer base.
-6 accts from me with a lost revenue of $209.94 per 60days. |
Richard Aiel
Caldari Caldari Provisions
|
Posted - 2008.10.26 13:51:00 -
[5014]
Originally by: Haldane Fisher
As for bobdev comments...pure tin foil I'm afraid.
Right... T20 was the ONLY one Well good thing for me it was meant as a joke and not serious then eh? ------------------------------------------------ CCP you are your own worst enemy. http://eve.coldfront.net/status/tranquility look at that |
Oli Robbo
Gallente Galactic Defence Syndicate Axiom Empire
|
Posted - 2008.10.26 14:02:00 -
[5015]
Edited by: Oli Robbo on 26/10/2008 14:03:59
I would like to see a Representative of CCP's Management such as a Dev or likewise participate in this discussion a little more.. There are a lot of questions to be asked/answered and I feel that a mere apology/grave digging session on behalf of CCP is not enough.
Count how many pages/posts there are in this discussion, then look at the ratio of CCP's involvement. Not everyone is available to sit in on the Live Dev Blogs you know..
I think this really does highlight CCP's 'great' customer service.
Lets see some more real life responses from CCP in here.
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Felix Tekwar
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Posted - 2008.10.26 14:16:00 -
[5016]
Where is the problem?
Here is my little counter attack strategy for this new "feature": (I hate do do this, but there is no other way).
I have 4 accounts with active chars.
The main account is always active.
The three other accounts are alts for mining, hauling and cynos etc..
The reason i have those 3 extra accounts is (was) the ghost skill training feature.
What will i do now:
I'll sell one char in the bazaar - and close the account. --> Minus 1 account for CCP.
I'll transfer one char to one of my other accounts - and close the empty account. --> Minus 1 account for CCP.
I'll go on with 2 active accounts. CCP loses 2 paid accounts.
I think many ppl will do it this way. And CCP's money making strategy won't have the calculated effect.
I would prefer to go on with all my accounts - but i simply can't effort 4 persistent accounts until there is a compensation for this loss.
/Felix
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Richard Aiel
Caldari Caldari Provisions
|
Posted - 2008.10.26 14:46:00 -
[5017]
Edited by: Richard Aiel on 26/10/2008 14:49:39
Originally by: Oli Robbo Edited by: Oli Robbo on 26/10/2008 14:03:59
I would like to see a Representative of CCP's Management such as a Dev or likewise participate in this discussion a little more.. There are a lot of questions to be asked/answered and I feel that a mere apology/grave digging session on behalf of CCP is not enough.
Count how many pages/posts there are in this discussion, then look at the ratio of CCP's involvement. Not everyone is available to sit in on the Live Dev Blogs you know..
I think this really does highlight CCP's 'great' customer service.
Lets see some more real life responses from CCP in here.
They cant they dont give a shi-t. Its their game we just rent it and they'll do with it as they wish. They always have. Why do you think certain ppl are still working there? They dont care what we think. If we leave, more noobs that had no idea that this was ever even a feature will replace us. In fact, we'll me replaced by more noobs arriving than oldies leaving. This is why CCP cannot be arsed to care about us. If it kills the game, I still think they wouldnt care. ------------------------------------------------ CCP you are your own worst enemy. http://eve.coldfront.net/status/tranquility look at that |
Bimjo
Caldari SKULLDOGS
|
Posted - 2008.10.26 15:05:00 -
[5018]
so is this plugging of a "loophole" to allow skill queueing in future ?
btw, I am already down to 1 account(from 3) ever since the 32% price rise in GTCs
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Sandy Minge
|
Posted - 2008.10.26 15:37:00 -
[5019]
Originally by: Haldane Fisher
Originally by: Sandy Minge
Originally by: Haldane Fisher
It's strange that more members of bob are not crying out about this. I'm not sure if they've been told not to talk about it, what I can say is that on the bob corp forums I have access to there is 0 discussion.
As for bobdev comments...pure tin foil I'm afraid. And unfortunetly for Cassius...he just doesn't get it.
LOL, get a clue Dewd - there is a 3 page discussion on the forums with ppl disagreeing with CCPs direction!
What part of bob corp forums do you not understand?
yeah sure pick out the raising by refering to a single corp forum while not mentioning the main forum - guess your not as informed as you want people to believe |
Tasty Bit
Gallente UNITED STAR SYNDICATE
|
Posted - 2008.10.26 16:14:00 -
[5020]
Originally by: Bimjo so is this plugging of a "loophole" to allow skill queueing in future ?
I doubt that'll happen. It's been stated, previously by the powers that be, that they don't want people not logging in. They want you to log in for 30 seconds to change a skill every so often. I guess if people don't log in, they data about people online looks kinda lame. Then again, if one logs in for 30 seconds once a week, that doesn't exactly do much to the numbers.
If they had it their way, I'm sure they'd make it that a skill only trains if you are logged in. Sitting in a station would suffice, just so long as their product appears more popular than it actually is.
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Squirrrel
Gallente Squirrrel Industries
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Posted - 2008.10.26 17:00:00 -
[5021]
Originally by: Tasty Bit
I doubt that'll happen. It's been stated, previously by the powers that be, that they don't want people not logging in. They want you to log in for 30 seconds to change a skill every so often. I guess if people don't log in, they data about people online looks kinda lame. Then again, if one logs in for 30 seconds once a week, that doesn't exactly do much to the numbers.
Actually I think they have been saying they don't want people to just log in to change skills. They want to force people to login, because they think you will then (or should) play.
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Richard Aiel
Caldari Caldari Provisions
|
Posted - 2008.10.26 17:09:00 -
[5022]
Originally by: Tasty Bit just so long as their product appears more popular than it actually is.
And theres the heart of it ------------------------------------------------ CCP you are your own worst enemy. http://eve.coldfront.net/status/tranquility look at that |
Squirrrel
Gallente Squirrrel Industries
|
Posted - 2008.10.26 17:32:00 -
[5023]
Originally by: CCP Wrangler
Posted - 2008.07.10 12:12:00
0001 Skill Queue Functionality
Noah (CCP) indicated CCPÆs awareness of the player frustrations with the ~6 hour duration skill trainings. However, CCP strongly believes that switching skill training is an activity that encourages players to log into the game and play. A skill queue would be a possible solution, if there would be limitations, such as a limited amount of skills being trained, or that only skills of a total up to a certain duration can be stacked into the queue.
Alex (CSM Bane Glorious) noted that players have also suggested a dual training mechanic, where players can pick a primary and secondary skill, which both train at half speed. As soon as the skill with the shortest duration is finished, the other skill will train at full speed.
It was concluded that CCP will look into a solution for this issue.
Source |
Aliedora
|
Posted - 2008.10.26 18:32:00 -
[5024]
5000.
new record for thread length? |
Cyrus Doul
|
Posted - 2008.10.26 18:33:00 -
[5025]
Edited by: Cyrus Doul on 26/10/2008 18:34:58 crap! you beat me to it! guess ill have to wait for 10k |
Areille
Amarr Black Hawk Down Syndrome
|
Posted - 2008.10.26 19:08:00 -
[5026]
i cancelled all accounts... so thats -2 for ccp. \o/
but tbh the ghost training change isnt my only reason for quiting. It's just the icing on the sh*tcake that ccp has given us recently. :( |
Richard Aiel
Caldari Caldari Provisions
|
Posted - 2008.10.26 20:19:00 -
[5027]
Originally by: Aliedora 5000.
new record for thread length?
5000 is nothing lol http://forums.hellgatelondon.com/showthread.php?t=106599&page=1479
14k and counting and I bet there are threads even larger than that in the interwebs |
Talsha Talamar
Amarr Nebula Rasa Holdings Nebula Rasa
|
Posted - 2008.10.26 21:54:00 -
[5028]
Originally by: Richard Aiel
Originally by: Aliedora 5000.
new record for thread length?
5000 is nothing lol http://forums.hellgatelondon.com/showthread.php?t=106599&page=1479
14k and counting and I bet there are threads even larger than that in the interwebs
Yeah just the difference is, that one is just for "lols" and runs since the 11.07.08.
So they needed over 3 month for 14k, this issue raged in 2 weeks to 5k. |
Haldane Fisher
Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.
|
Posted - 2008.10.26 22:13:00 -
[5029]
Originally by: Sandy Minge Edited by: Sandy Minge on 26/10/2008 15:48:25
Originally by: Haldane Fisher
Originally by: Sandy Minge
Originally by: Haldane Fisher
It's strange that more members of bob are not crying out about this. I'm not sure if they've been told not to talk about it, what I can say is that on the bob corp forums I have access to there is 0 discussion.
As for bobdev comments...pure tin foil I'm afraid. And unfortunetly for Cassius...he just doesn't get it.
LOL, get a clue Dewd - there is a 3 page discussion on the forums with ppl disagreeing with CCPs direction!
What part of bob corp forums do you not understand?
yeah sure pick out the raisin by refering to a single corp forum while not mentioning the main forum - guess your not as informed as you want people to believe
*sigh*
The only bob members in this and the last thread that have posted with thier main (to my knowledge) are all very much pro CCP here. I merely pointed this out.
Now you could assume that since most bob members have already trained the long skills, the lack of ghosting isn't really a big loss. You could also say that the overwhelming majority of bob genuinely feel CCP is in the right here, while the few who aren't here shouting about it don't want to rock the boat.
Or you may be right in the the main bob forum is full of whine. I really don't know since my bob forum access has closed since I haven't resubbed my main account.
I do know that in more than one bob corp there is no talk about it. Reason for that are anyone's guess, I just happen to find it interesting. More interesting, is that, as has been mentioned,the vast majority of those supporting ccp ar the old characters who've already done everything many times over, and new players who havent trained anything longer than cruiser V. So to see someone from bob or any other old alliance spew sycophantic drive (hi verone) its annoying.
(notice I'm not a complete bob/anti-bob zealot?)
(also, I've been awake for 37 hours now so be nice)
"Skills continue training even if you are logged off or if your account is inactive (in the second scenario you can't change skill training, though)." |
Richard Aiel
Caldari Caldari Provisions
|
Posted - 2008.10.27 04:51:00 -
[5030]
I think its funny BoB is sticking up for CCP
oh... wait |
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Azraeljbs
|
Posted - 2008.10.27 06:05:00 -
[5031]
So it's hit the over 5000 post mark and yet CCP has still given little in the way as a reply to this thread. There are many questions and concerns that we all have and have voiced in this thread and yet we are fed vague dodgy answers at best. So once again I ask that if you truly want to be heard spam the link to this forum every where you can...even in other games spread the word and cancel all your accounts....CCP might listen when 1/4 of their player base cancels their accounts. It's the only way they will seem to listen. I could care less if they bring the feature back at this point it's probably too late. What I do want is a dev to answer up on this forum other than to lock it, hide it, or ban someone. Give us straight answers and tell us what your plans are to deal with this. Until I see that and the announcement of an implemented solution in-game my accounts will remain closed. How can a company ignore this many people esp when at least...at least 3000 of the 5000 posts are people canceling multiple accounts. My guess is it's over 3500 accounts canceled so far, and climbing if not more. |
Resincast Milk
Caldari Bloodpack Logista
|
Posted - 2008.10.27 06:13:00 -
[5032]
i had one account that always active, and four ghost trained account. but this is what i have done
1. sell my character at character bazaar and close two accounts (-2) 2. transfer my character to another account and close that empty account(-1) 3. now i have 2 active account instead 5 account 4. ccp lost 3 paid account
This is result of your business side decision, CCP |
Ramblin Man
Empyreum
|
Posted - 2008.10.27 06:50:00 -
[5033]
So I finally decided that if CCP wanted my internet spaceships they could have them.
-2 more accounts
There was a great post on one of the corp forums I'm part of... Player 1> It's great playing EVE. I mean, the patches are completely free, unlike other games that charge you fifty bucks for the expansion. Player 2> Yeah, but that's because EVE patches don't have nearly the same level of content. I mean, have you run missions recently? When's the last time you thought "Oh, wow! That mission and/or mining trip was awesome!"? Player 1> But you get new ships during most patches! Player 2> Yeah, and what's the track record been on that? Either they obsolete an old shipclass, or they add something useless. More != new.
So, CCP, I'll leave it in your hands. Now that I don't have "Ooh, a new level 5 skill" to tempt me back -- if you want my cash, then put out a patch that actually makes the game better.
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Ezoran DuBlaidd
Freedom From Fear Industries
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Posted - 2008.10.27 08:52:00 -
[5034]
i'm curious exactly how ccp is going to count the accounts they've lost? if an account was in the process of "inactive training" (since that's what i've always heard it referred to, guess i wasn't hip to the term ghost); then, it's already been cancelled.
so, while a few hundred may have run out in the past couple of weeks... how many more simply won't be renewed?
how will it be determined how many exactly are lost? when people are mystified next year that the game's growth isn't meeting expectations?
for all the people in support of this change(who seem to have never voiced their distaste of this feature all these years... guess that makes them trolls?)... offline training is also a feature this game brags about; but is not available in any other game.
what happens when the real-time skill training *feature* is deemed a bug when offline or not actively using the account? perhaps people found flying to nowhere (in order to avoid a 10 minute log off for inactivity) are actively hunted and banned for exploiting the system?
i mean, both have been advertised for literal YEARS as features unique to eve online. would you be so vocal to support that feature being declared a bug as well?
IF we ignore however many people have multiple accounts and keep the characters on said accounts; then, let's think about the math involved.
1 oh they're reselling characters A (doesn't that cost $20 per character to transfer into ccp's pocket? and get how much for the months trained?),
2 they're setting 60 day skills training B(ok, they're either paying $15/month or $35/60d gtc; if you're training an inactive account, are you REALLY going to be training a skill you don't have pri/sec stats trained to a high level and have at least +4 implants on? if so, you're costing yourself time, which IS money for a toon you're going to sell.... so what skills exactly are these 60+ on hundreds of characters being sold? battleship 5 is going to be a month or less...)
so a 60d gtc (2 months), 1 month skill training (1 month) = 3months for $35... how much does a 3 month CC sub cost? something like $38? how much do 6 and 12 month CC subs cost? so, someone alt training via GTC is actually paying more, PER ACCOUNT, than someone paying via 6- and 12- month blocks?
how much does the account on the power of 2 offer cost? is it more money annually than $35/3month = $140/year? do you keep the power of 2 cost after the initial 6 months or does it go up, in the hopes you're hooked on this 6 month old alt account?
again, i'm curious where all the threads complaining about inactive training where at these previous years; because i seem to have missed them all.
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Honest Yang
|
Posted - 2008.10.27 09:16:00 -
[5035]
There goes my account buh bye. |
Daan Sai
Polytrope
|
Posted - 2008.10.27 12:58:00 -
[5036]
What is extra poor in all this is that if affects primarily the long time experienced players who have hit the 30-60 day skill wall after years of dedication to CCP, not the short term players. This undermines the hard core players with multiple accounts far more than others - you know the bread and butter players for CCP.
Honestly, if you wanted to annoy your loyal core base then this is a good step.
Now, as a lower SP char I call "unfair!" I wanted to be able to ghost train carrier V one day, while playing another char to fill the time, and now I can't, whereas apparently a lot of folks already have.
Daan
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Richard Aiel
Caldari Caldari Provisions
|
Posted - 2008.10.27 13:26:00 -
[5037]
I dont put it past CCP at this point to buy accounts and keep them active just to make it look like theres more ppl playing than there are and to be able to claim higher sub numbers than they actually have so the ppl leaving wont influence their numbers :p ------------------------------------------------ CCP you are your own worst enemy. http://eve.coldfront.net/status/tranquility look at that |
Lorac Caladon
Caldari The Cowboy Junkies
|
Posted - 2008.10.27 14:31:00 -
[5038]
Originally by: Azraeljbs So it's hit the over 5000 post mark and yet CCP has still given little in the way as a reply to this thread. There are many questions and concerns that we all have and have voiced in this thread and yet we are fed vague dodgy answers at best. So once again I ask that if you truly want to be heard spam the link to this forum every where you can...even in other games spread the word and cancel all your accounts....CCP might listen when 1/4 of their player base cancels their accounts. It's the only way they will seem to listen. I could care less if they bring the feature back at this point it's probably too late. What I do want is a dev to answer up on this forum other than to lock it, hide it, or ban someone. Give us straight answers and tell us what your plans are to deal with this. Until I see that and the announcement of an implemented solution in-game my accounts will remain closed. How can a company ignore this many people esp when at least...at least 3000 of the 5000 posts are people canceling multiple accounts. My guess is it's over 3500 accounts canceled so far, and climbing if not more.
It's ironic that, according to CCP, the reason they locked all of the other threads about "Ghost Training" was to funnel all comments to this very thread, to make it easier for them to communicate with the players (Link). Nice job on that CCP.
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OneSock
Crown Industries
|
Posted - 2008.10.27 15:19:00 -
[5039]
Just downloading Wow and was reading the player guide.
Seem like in Wow they treat their casual players with bit of respect:
Quote: Most players will be in the Normal experience tier most of the time. The Rested tier is primarily intended for players that take a day or more off from playing or are very casual with their play schedules. This has enabled us to greatly reduce the experience necessary for all players to level regardless of which rest state tier they play under.
So CCP talk about fairness, but should learn a less on from Wow.
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Marbith
Minmatar
|
Posted - 2008.10.27 15:21:00 -
[5040]
Yes it is inconvenient that you can't take a break if your finances take a hit. yes it is insensitive to the fact that this credit crisis is hitting the players as well as the company. But, the responses I'm reading on here about people having 5-6 accounts all at once really aggravates me; no wonder there are so many pirates in EVE. I'd be willing to bet one or two pirate corp.s are all alts controlled by one player. I suppose next people will want macro-mining to be legalized, or maybe doing away with the security rating system so new payers won't stand a chance. I do think the skill que would be a welcome addition, however, as would at least some ability to warp to 0 in auto pilot so it doesn't take hours in larger ships. No self-respecting minmatar would fund slave labor. Boycott ISK farmers |
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Tivookz
Caldari IMPERIAL SENATE Pure.
|
Posted - 2008.10.27 15:49:00 -
[5041]
Edited by: Tivookz on 27/10/2008 15:50:40
Originally by: OneSock Just downloading Wow and was reading the player guide.
Seem like in Wow they treat their casual players with bit of respect:
Quote: Most players will be in the Normal experience tier most of the time. The Rested tier is primarily intended for players that take a day or more off from playing or are very casual with their play schedules. This has enabled us to greatly reduce the experience necessary for all players to level regardless of which rest state tier they play under.
So CCP talk about fairness, but should learn a less on from Wow.
This is actually true and you get this "rested" experience even if your account is unsubscribed.
Rested experience basically gives your character twice the experience he would normally gain when he kills a monster for a certain amount of time based on how long you've been logged off in a city/village.
This gives players that have been away from the game for a month or so something to look forward to next time they log in.
Very similar to ghost training actually, only now we don't have something to look forward to when we resubscribe.
Tiv __________________________________________________
Hating Cash Craving Productions since oct 15th 2008 |
Soma Khan
|
Posted - 2008.10.27 15:58:00 -
[5042]
Edited by: Soma Khan on 27/10/2008 16:00:39
Originally by: OneSock Just downloading Wow and was reading the player guide.
Seem like in Wow they treat their casual players with bit of respect:
Quote: Most players will be in the Normal experience tier most of the time. The Rested tier is primarily intended for players that take a day or more off from playing or are very casual with their play schedules. This has enabled us to greatly reduce the experience necessary for all players to level regardless of which rest state tier they play under.
So CCP talk about fairness, but should learn a less on from Wow.
lol?!
This thread is getting more and more bizarre. |
h zebra
|
Posted - 2008.10.27 16:01:00 -
[5043]
so why has this been unstickyed? |
Corwain
Gallente Aliastra
|
Posted - 2008.10.27 16:04:00 -
[5044]
Originally by: h zebra so why has this been unstickyed?
CCP has begun operation Sweep Under Rug. |
DeODokktor
Dark Templars The Fonz Presidium
|
Posted - 2008.10.27 16:17:00 -
[5045]
Originally by: h zebra so why has this been unstickyed?
They dont know why it's unstickyed. In two weeks they might be able to re-stick it...
At least they havent tried making the thread not show up in the subgroup so it wouldnt be visible to most people..
I am sure that the next accident will not be the complete deletion of the thread. |
Midas Man
Caldari Dzark Asylum
|
Posted - 2008.10.27 16:58:00 -
[5046]
Originally by: Richard Aiel I dont put it past CCP at this point to buy accounts and keep them active just to make it look like theres more ppl playing than there are and to be able to claim higher sub numbers than they actually have so the ppl leaving wont influence their numbers :p
In fact your on to something there, It would also explain the rise in GTC price. let me explain.
1) CCP creates 30000 trail accounts. 2) CCP gives those Trial accounts 1 Billion each 3) CCP buys 30000 GTC from time code bizaar.
Numbers for illustration and are probably higher to off set the exodus, while keep those spend RL money on GTC with the feeling the game is growing not dieing.
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Manipulator General
o.0
|
Posted - 2008.10.27 17:12:00 -
[5047]
Originally by: Corwain
Originally by: h zebra so why has this been unstickyed?
CCP has begun operation Sweep Under Rug.
Diabolical. Luckily we were all born yesterday, so once it disappears off the first page, due to the continued frenzy of new stickies, we'll forget about it.
Or something. |
Hul'ka
Minmatar MicroFunks
|
Posted - 2008.10.27 17:15:00 -
[5048]
Originally by: Midas Man In fact your on to something there, It would also explain the rise in GTC price. let me explain.
1) CCP creates 30000 trail accounts. 2) CCP gives those Trial accounts 1 Billion each 3) CCP buys 30000 GTC from time code bizaar.
Numbers for illustration and are probably higher to off set the exodus, while keep those spend RL money on GTC with the feeling the game is growing not dieing.
that would be a cheep promotion. But who cares. Point is, most of responses here are "CCP, this change is not a big deal, but you way of implementing it, you lying to us, you shooting your own foot by not realising how this will effect your company, nomber of subscribed players and how you look in your costomers eyes", and we still don't have any responce from any authorised person (CCP troll alts don't count)
I was suprised CCP Nozh answered in one thread in Development section. This is, as far as i know, only DEV involment in ANY thread concerning speed nerf, and it's a big topic for months now. Check it out: http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=905797&page=2 |
oilio
Caldari State War Academy
|
Posted - 2008.10.27 19:53:00 -
[5049]
Edited by: oilio on 27/10/2008 19:54:45 Tinfoil hat time - maybe it's not deliberate...
but if you look here: coldfront stats
...there used to be FIVE graphs. The bottom graph showed number of active players since the game started.
Since March, that graph has levelled off, and has been showing a slight decline - a trend that was never previously observed.
Now the bottom graph is GONE!
More cover-up, or just a problem with the website itself?
Either way, that bottom graph will be the one to watch in the next few months.
The usual trend is that when an MMO shows declining player numbers, the decline never recovers. Eve (according to the coldfront graphs that USED to be there) is in a state of slight decline.
Money is becoming ever tighter for most people, and at the same time CCP have been trying to squeeze more money out of people - GTC price-hike and now "ghost training" nerf (which came immediately AFTER the "power of two" promotion which encouraged people to setup more accounts).
Add the trademark CCP PR disaster, and with any luck this is the last time CCP will treat their playerbase like this.
If Eve follows the decline fingerprint that most MMOs do, then CCP's days are numbered. I just hope that another, better company comes into to rescue Eve if this happens. |
Richard Aiel
Caldari Caldari Provisions
|
Posted - 2008.10.27 20:00:00 -
[5050]
Originally by: Marbith or maybe doing away with the security rating system so new payers won't stand a chance
There are MANY ppl that want this btw, mostly the 0.0 piratey griefer types |
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Richard Aiel
Caldari Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2008.10.27 20:02:00 -
[5051]
Edited by: Richard Aiel on 27/10/2008 20:06:27 Edited by: Richard Aiel on 27/10/2008 20:04:57
Originally by: h zebra so why has this been unstickyed?
Because CCP wants this to "go away". Next they'll fix it so that it doesnt bump to the top when ppl post so it will finally go away and they can properly ignore it
Originally by: oilio Edited by: oilio on 27/10/2008 19:54:45 Tinfoil hat time - maybe it's not deliberate...
but if you look here: coldfront stats
...there used to be FIVE graphs. The bottom graph showed number of active players since the game started.
Since March, that graph has levelled off, and has been showing a slight decline - a trend that was never previously observed.
Now the bottom graph is GONE!
More cover-up, or just a problem with the website itself?
Well guess who gives coldfront the stats for the graphs? CCP (GASP) so you really cant trust those graphs.
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Razzlee
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Posted - 2008.10.27 20:22:00 -
[5052]
CCP wants to ignore it for now. They are under still under the delusion that this will result in more active subscriptions and greater revenues for them. Its why they made the move. The only reason. They thought it would make them more money over time.
They couldn't be more wrong. But if 5,000+ posts from their loyal and paying customers hasn't convinced them yet, nothing short of their own internal tracking data will.(Now more than ever, we see that CCP truly does not care what we have to say) I'm sure they see quite a few cancelled accounts and a dip in active subscriptions even now, but they are telling themselves its only an irrational knee jerk reaction by their player base and that we will be back.(We won't this time...trust us)
When they realize a few months from now that the average number of active accounts has plummeted by the thousands, they will scramble to try and reverse the decision. More than likely though, it will be too late by that point. Those like me who have been watching with great interest each day for the past few weeks for CCP to reverse this decision will have given up and moved on permanently by then.
There are new and interesting MMO's coming out almost monthly now. Several new ones just on the horizon are space based. The time to act is now CCP. Reverse this decision before all those cancelled accounts your own data shows run out of play time and their owners walk away from Eve for good. You don't have much more time.
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Voxis
|
Posted - 2008.10.27 20:28:00 -
[5053]
Nice, no more sticky, must be one of those forum "mistakes" and all that. |
oilio
Caldari State War Academy
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Posted - 2008.10.27 20:33:00 -
[5054]
Originally by: Razzlee
There are new and interesting MMO's coming out almost monthly now. Several new ones just on the horizon are space based. The time to act is now CCP. Reverse this decision before all those cancelled accounts your own data shows run out of play time and their owners walk away from Eve for good. You don't have much more time.
That's the other point, of course. People have stayed with Eve in spite of their treatment by CCP - at least in part - because Eve was the only real "internet spaceships" MMO. Eve gets some heavy competition soon.
I'm already signed up for Jumpgate Evolution beta. My subscriptions are cancelled and run out in mid-december. I sure as hell won't be renewing them ever. If I ever do return to Eve, I will use GTCs. Eve will lose players to the upcoming spaceship MMOs. That's inevitable, but how many they lose will be determined by the player's loyalty to this game. CCP haven't demonstrated much loyalty to their players, so it's reasonable to assume that they can only expect the same in return.
Once a few people's friends defect to the other space MMOs, more will follow. Good customer relations is VITAL at this stage if CCP are to survive. CCP have demonstrated that they are woefully deficient in this regard and it may be the end of them as a company. There is widespread dissatisfaction with their tactics; the world economy is looking bleaker by the day and there is some direct competition on the horizon.
Maybe CCP are right - maybe players have short memories and they can get away with anything. If they're wrong, they're finished. |
Tivookz
Caldari IMPERIAL SENATE Pure.
|
Posted - 2008.10.27 21:00:00 -
[5055]
Originally by: oilio
Maybe CCP are right - maybe players have short memories and they can get away with anything. If they're wrong, they're finished.
It's a classic mistake to believe that players forget things.
We don't forget, we just get exhausted talking about it but when the time comes to decide wether to stay or try a new game, the decision will be easier to make when you think back on issues like this one where over 5000 posts have been made without a single comment from CCCP.
Tiv __________________________________________________
Hating Cash Craving Productions since oct 15th 2008 |
Richard Aiel
Caldari Caldari Provisions
|
Posted - 2008.10.27 21:14:00 -
[5056]
Originally by: Voxis Nice, no more sticky, must be one of those forum "mistakes" and all that.
as its been sauid the next mistake will be the deletion of this thread ------------------------------------------------ CCP you are your own worst enemy. ------------------------------------------------ |
Boomer Aires
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Posted - 2008.10.27 21:34:00 -
[5057]
Originally by: Corwain
Originally by: h zebra so why has this been unstickyed?
CCP has begun operation Sweep Under Rug.
Nice!
QFT
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Squirrrel
Gallente Squirrrel Industries
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Posted - 2008.10.27 21:51:00 -
[5058]
Originally by: Tivookz It's a classic mistake to believe that players forget things.
We don't forget, we just get exhausted talking about it but when the time comes to decide wether to stay or try a new game, the decision will be easier to make when you think back on issues like this one where over 5000 posts have been made without a single comment from CCCP.
Too true. CCP's silence is now just making this worse.
Originally by: Marbith I suppose next people will want macro-mining to be legalized
Yeah. Try using another finger. That one is so not on the pulse...
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Boomer Aires
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Posted - 2008.10.27 22:08:00 -
[5059]
As a form of protest all should rename and add the following to their ships: suggestion:
------------------------------- >GT< + ship name -------------------------------
I just renamed my ships. CU out there >GT<s
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Miss Kingston
Avignon Associates Inc.
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Posted - 2008.10.27 23:05:00 -
[5060]
Just make a stand guys, don't resub when your subscription runs out, there are plenty of other games and rl stuff that can be done with your money |
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Brother Welcome
Amarr Suddenly Ninjas Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
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Posted - 2008.10.27 23:21:00 -
[5061]
Originally by: Tivookz It's a classic mistake to believe that players forget things.
We don't forget, we just get exhausted talking about it but when the time comes to decide wether to stay or try a new game, the decision will be easier to make when you think back on issues like this one where over 5000 posts have been made without a single comment from CCCP.
Tiv
This.
I have not forgotten. I may have grown tired of posting, but I have not grown even the slightest bit weary of quitting the day my current sub runs out
-vk |
Soma Khan
|
Posted - 2008.10.27 23:29:00 -
[5062]
Originally by: Miss Kingston Just make a stand guys, don't resub when your subscription runs out, there are plenty of other games and rl stuff that can be done with your money
I'd like to second this advice.
However, I am afraid that the part about spending "your money" will fall on deaf ears, since that is precisely what most of the complainers in this thread are trying to avoid. ___
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Gorek Loc
Etherware Heavy Engineering
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Posted - 2008.10.27 23:48:00 -
[5063]
Unstickying the most controversial decision in CCP history...
This matter won't go away by itself. CCP better deal with the problem... read the suggestions in this thread, there are several good solutions to not losing most of yout multiple account users...
Because you listen to 'the quality of the feedback, not the quantity.' It is better to listen to your customers now, than your financial advisors at the end of the year.
The problem with the training on inactive accounts is self-created. Offering the users good discounts on multiple accounts, then just let it roll from there. There has been no follow-up on the multiple account users, only more 'power of 2' offers so that existing users can get even deeper in s*** with even more accounts.
I am certain that most users will greet a discount on multiple accounts with a warm welcome. |
IR Scoutar
Caldari State War Academy
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Posted - 2008.10.28 00:22:00 -
[5064]
meh posting slowed it will probably get swept under the rug.... |
Joey Meow
MURAKAMI INDUSTRIES
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Posted - 2008.10.28 00:27:00 -
[5065]
Originally by: IR Scoutar meh posting slowed it will probably get swept under the rug....
Soon enough, CCP obviously bets on the "7 month average" lifespan of an EVE player. They ignore the people who spent years with them and stuck it out through thick and thin.
Good luck with that "7 month" old player CCP, soon enough, soon enough. |
Richard Aiel
Caldari Caldari Provisions
|
Posted - 2008.10.28 00:28:00 -
[5066]
Flagship number 2 |
Thago Avori
|
Posted - 2008.10.28 00:52:00 -
[5067]
I have been following this thread with interest, reading all 168+ pages as they unfurl.
I was hoping the people saying 'CCP doesn't listen to their customers' were wrong. I have little hope the decision will change so I've canceled my two accounts.
toodles all |
Dirty Midden
|
Posted - 2008.10.28 01:00:00 -
[5068]
Originally by: Thago Avori I have been following this thread with interest, reading all 168+ pages as they unfurl.
I was hoping the people saying 'CCP doesn't listen to their customers' were wrong. I have little hope the decision will change so I've canceled my two accounts.
toodles all
There is precisely 0 chance they will reverse their decision. Oh well.
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Bee oflight
|
Posted - 2008.10.28 01:09:00 -
[5069]
I look at the last 3000 page (that what I think)
lets put this clear
1) the banks are calling in all the money they an 2) If u are not in Real 0.0 you pay for your accounts. because you can kill nice rats, miner the best ore and they get office mobs this will easy pay 500,000,000.00 isk for 60 day time card. (so the older player can play for free and they do not care about ghost Training) 3) Under the new rules, no new play will be albe to get a mothership because, I not parking a 50,000,000,000.00 isk ship in a POS so a corp mate or 1 of the big Alliances to come and get, (1 way for a play would be to make a 2nd account) So who will pay for 1 account to fly 1 ship, or the 2nd choose is pay for 2 account so 1 account will be off line. 4) so ghost Training again, The old player who got all Cap skill to 5. I bet 50% of they got them with ghost training So if u a new play, you will not get all the skill to 5 with out paying. you can buy a 2nd char and place it on the 2nd or 3th slot It will cost u 1 of 2 way 1) 20 to 40 billion ISK, (yes I as a new play got that in my bank in Eve, I buy 1 today. this is the link for the Forum http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=902893 or http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=908614 2) The 2nd way is buy time code, so 1 billion ISK is $34.99 x 3($104.97)or ú22.42 x 3 (ú67.25) we the player are got maked of money
5) Moon is 0.0 and real 0.0 all the top moon are with bob and the top 3 Alliances because thay got Titan's and if a small corp try to take it down thay down titan and mothership on the small corp. how can a small corp stop bob. I say look at 98Q-80 in syndicate. it a large control tower wiyh 1 moon miner and the gun the tower can take with a alt cyno char so they can down a titan. I seen just 1 titan and he got kill with a doomday he not in a big corp. how can a play with 17 mil skill pt kill a titan
I thing that all. 1 of my friends are in 1 of the big corp's and the corp is all taking a vote "do they all change games" and I want to play a game that let my get to be 1 of the big char or can make isk
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Velda Chulai
|
Posted - 2008.10.28 01:13:00 -
[5070]
Good morning commander! I'm checking in to confirm a successful loss.
Commander, it all happened on the field approximately six days ago, when I met with a recruit who, while in trial, took a brief two day break - they just got Spore and decided to burn out on that for a while. They returned and continued playing, but soon their trial lapsed. They looked forward to a level 5 skill to train up.
After explaining the change (good call on poasting more than 5 news updates - the bottom one dropped off the Eve in-game news!) and suggesting that I'd be leaving, they decided they'd leave Eve online as well.
Signing off commander! Wish me luck in making the operation a success!
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Epimedium
|
Posted - 2008.10.28 01:42:00 -
[5071]
Disabling Ghost Training - the blog edition should be made a sticky
To urm... be helpful n' stuff. Would save a few petitions from going CCPs way for sure. One nice big helping hand from CCP to show returning players where it is.
'Petitions?' you ask?
You see, I read about a petition (in here) how lost skill points were refunded to an un-subbed account. Yep, he didn't pay and yes, he was entitled to get his lost SP - this was a bug after all - so he did (get his lost SP).
So help spread the word & help CCP, eve players
...as all these petitions will be a waste of time. Its only fair we help lighten the work load of misguided petitions. They may be in a mix of moods and in need a helping hand, to help calm them down, or not.
How do you do?
An example of diverting the spam of a repeat petition offender, albeit an abrupt one (and great job if you manage to intercept their first petition. BRAVO indeed)
EVE GT Samaritan: Welcome to this helpful sticky. Glad the link worked for you (sometimes it moves).
Concerned Eve Player: Ahh, so it's not a bug that my skill training was interrupted and didn't finish.
EVE GT Samaritan: No, its a new game feature. You needn't worry about getting your SP back. They were not lost you see.
Concerned Eve Player (no longer!): KUDOS to CCP for the change. Thankyou for saving me all that worry and panic I went through. I came back expecting to pilot a capital ship, and I was well steamed, to put it mildly. Send my thanks to CCP for having this sticky. It was so easy to find and informative to read of my fellow eve friends' opinions.
#### PARANOIA NEWSFLASH ####
Call me paranoid if you will, but I think this thread is now being indirectly bombarded by Stickys at the EVE Information Portal. I have no idea how else the threads stay afloat other than being replied to or read, but how do these numbers really add up? I just don't have enough intellect on the matter to warrant my paranoia.
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Cracoc
The Scope
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Posted - 2008.10.28 01:47:00 -
[5072]
In the last 3yrs after all the daily downtimes and unexpected over runs of patch days i want a refund of those times i could not play the game when i wanted to, which equates to 45days.
tanx
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IR Scoutar
Caldari State War Academy
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Posted - 2008.10.28 05:08:00 -
[5073]
Originally by: Bee oflight ummm ?
lol wut ?
seriously i dont get it are you pro change or against change ?
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Andrea By'Cynoiea
|
Posted - 2008.10.28 06:24:00 -
[5074]
All no ghost training will do is give less incentive for inactive (burnt out or maybe in Iraq or on vacation etc etc...) players to ever return to the game. return customers is necessary in most any business. training is the most boring and ******ed thing about eve. So CCP decides that loosing 20 days of revenue (ghost training) is to important so would risk all the revenue a player will give to the game when they quit for good. No reason GTC's should be worth more as a result of no more ghost training or limiting to 60 days, as it only affects those who pay with cash (and want to save some money and make the game more affordable). All time codes are paid with cash even if you bought with isk, the guy you bought it from, paid with CASH, so CCP gets their money out of it, no one is playing for free.
Average player time 7 months, now will be 4?? Make the game more interesting, how many times can you do the same thing, And anyone that has ever gone to school, knows you can learn more than one thing at a time.
The funny thing is all the server load (from training?? proper programing would not require any server load (skill training & Level when game exit (save), X minutes from last login, skill level should be)that they can't handle and they want more active players (psst, active players also train & play in game), so the servers are working much much harder, you would alleviate server load if more people ghost trained
if they don't fix their model soon, Sad to think, CCP will be no more, and the bell tolls.
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Chindi Yazzie
|
Posted - 2008.10.28 07:37:00 -
[5075]
Edited by: Chindi Yazzie on 28/10/2008 07:39:28 Accounts Cancelled. Stuff given away or in the process of being given away. CCP likes to Ban people for raising questions. You lost 4 accounts from this household. We found a nice free game to play while we wait for the other Space Based MMO's to come out. Surprising amount of content, limited characters. Korean grind fest yes, but better than most with a surprising depth to the game. Bit hard to learn at first as the documentation is shall we say, limited.
We are saddened by CCP's steadfast refusal to do much more than continue their lies, and refusal to speak with the people who pay their wages.
CCP, your welcome to delete my accounts. They won't ever be used again. I don't pay companies I don't trust, to disrespect me, lie to me and ignore me.
....................../¦»/) ....................,/»../ .................../..../ ............./¦»/'...'/¦»»`++ ........../'/.../..../......./¿»\ ........('(...¦...¦.... »~/'...') .........\.................'...../ ..........''...\.......... _.+¦ ............\..............( ..............\.............\...
from my family to yours.
CY
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Razzlee
|
Posted - 2008.10.28 09:09:00 -
[5076]
Originally by: IR Scoutar meh posting slowed it will probably get swept under the rug....
CCP will be bringing this up themselves in a few months time when they realize their active subscriptions have plummeted by the thousands and that those players aren't coming back like they thought they would.
More than likely though, by then, it will be too late.
|
Tivookz
Caldari IMPERIAL SENATE Pure.
|
Posted - 2008.10.28 09:17:00 -
[5077]
Edited by: Tivookz on 28/10/2008 09:22:07 To be honest I am not surprised T0rfifrans made this decision because lets face it, he is a former 3D artist that somehow became the Senior lead producer.
Since when was it a good idea to let the ships cook, chef or whatever u wanna call it steer the ship?
Decisions like this have to be considered for a long time and to be honest, considering the extremely short notice we were given prior to the removal of ghost training this was nothing but a rushed decision made by a person who simply exploited his position.
Of course the rest of CCP are officially supporting this decision but that's obvious, how would this look if we had representatives saying they don't support their senior producer?
But in reality I predict the situation to be a little bit more infected than what we see on the surface.
Because lets face it, ghost training might be something you give your customers for free but it is also a very strong factor when a player decides what to do with his free time after taking a break.
1. Return to eve and see that your long skill training finished and get motivated to continue or
2. Realise you don't have anything waiting for you except what you had when you left and get tempted to try something else. |
IR Scoutar
Caldari State War Academy
|
Posted - 2008.10.28 12:33:00 -
[5078]
Originally by: Razzlee
Originally by: IR Scoutar meh posting slowed it will probably get swept under the rug....
CCP will be bringing this up themselves in a few months time when they realize their active subscriptions have plummeted by the thousands and that those players aren't coming back like they thought they would.
More than likely though, by then, it will be too late.
well so far with each half arsed atempt to explain they have gotten more to the point where zulupark even sayd it was a bussiness decision
whats left now is an official statement preferably as a news item or devblog that simply states "We are sorry for lieing to you, we thought it would be easyer for you to swallow this way" untill i get that i shall be whining with my lovely alt here untill this aco**** runs out of gametime aswell (main already ran out) or im banned from the forums.
Why do i stay on and whine ? Because i love this game and there is so much more potential in it
|
Manipulator General
o.0
|
Posted - 2008.10.28 13:22:00 -
[5079]
I wonder how long it'll be before they decide this discussion is over, lock the thread, and start deleting any new threads on the subject.
Go on, CCP, you know you want to.
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Chris Stormrider
Gallente IDEON ANDRON
|
Posted - 2008.10.28 13:38:00 -
[5080]
I'll be happy if this thread reaches 171 pages and become the biggest in these forums
but I don't think the people that left and are coming back, nor do I think allowing ghost training will make any difference, since it's beside the point.
also, someone losing his job over this would be also good
|
|
Lorac Caladon
Caldari The Cowboy Junkies
|
Posted - 2008.10.28 13:55:00 -
[5081]
Originally by: Tivookz Edited by: Tivookz on 28/10/2008 09:26:46 To be honest I am not surprised T0rfifrans made this decision because lets face it, he is a former 3D artist that somehow became the Senior lead producer.
Since when was it a good idea to let the ships cook, chef or whatever u wanna call it steer the ship?
Decisions like this have to be considered for a long time and to be honest, considering the extremely short notice we were given prior to the removal of ghost training this was nothing but a rushed decision made by a person who simply exploited his position.
Of course the rest of CCP are officially supporting this decision but that's obvious, how would this look if we had representatives saying they don't support their senior producer?
But in reality I predict the situation to be a little bit more infected than what we see on the surface.
Because lets face it, ghost training might be something you give your customers for free but it is also a very strong factor when a player decides what to do with his free time after taking a break and with the 5000+ replies we have in this thread I can only imagine that we have people thinking the same way at CCP HQ.
Of course, those people don't have Senior producer printed on their nametag.
Because there are two scenarios for a player, guess which one brings in the most revenue over a year:
1. Return to eve and see that your long skill training finished and get motivated to continue or
2. Realise you don't have anything waiting for you except what you had when you left and get tempted to try something else.
Tiv
This. THIS. THIS! Very little else makes any sense. Just for clarification though, a question for CCP:
Did the same person, business unit or department make the official decision to: a. cancel the so-called ôGhost Trainingö b. remove 30 & 90 day GTCÆs c. raise the price of the 60 day GTC?
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Jokerret
Ventis Secundis
|
Posted - 2008.10.28 14:35:00 -
[5082]
Originally by: Chindi Yazzie Edited by: Chindi Yazzie on 28/10/2008 07:39:28 Accounts Cancelled. Stuff given away or in the process of being given away. CCP likes to Ban people for raising questions. You lost 4 accounts from this household. We found a nice free game to play while we wait for the other Space Based MMO's to come out. Surprising amount of content, limited characters. Korean grind fest yes, but better than most with a surprising depth to the game. Bit hard to learn at first as the documentation is shall we say, limited.
We are saddened by CCP's steadfast refusal to do much more than continue their lies, and refusal to speak with the people who pay their wages.
CCP, your welcome to delete my accounts. They won't ever be used again. I don't pay companies I don't trust, to disrespect me, lie to me and ignore me.
....................../¦»/) ....................,/»../ .................../..../ ............./¦»/'...'/¦»»`++ ........../'/.../..../......./¿»\ ........('(...¦...¦.... »~/'...') .........\.................'...../ ..........''...\.......... _.+¦ ............\..............( ..............\.............\...
from my family to yours.
CY
Makes me giggle.
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Mon Gars
|
Posted - 2008.10.28 15:45:00 -
[5083]
I would like to know once and for all if this change has actually been implemented.
Somewhere in this thread (I've read all but the last 2.5 pages), people were saying CCP has said that there was going to be a 3 day grace period for training time after your account deactivated.
To test this change, I dutifully reactivated my account 3 days and a few hours after it expired, only to find my skill still training. What is going on? Is this change actually going to be implemented? Can someone official PLEASE give the specifics? |
Razzlee
|
Posted - 2008.10.28 15:59:00 -
[5084]
Originally by: Mon Gars
I would like to know once and for all if this change has actually been implemented.
Somewhere in this thread (I've read all but the last 2.5 pages), people were saying CCP has said that there was going to be a 3 day grace period for training time after your account deactivated.
To test this change, I dutifully reactivated my account 3 days and a few hours after it expired, only to find my skill still training. What is going on? Is this change actually going to be implemented? Can someone official PLEASE give the specifics?
It was implemented. It appears they actually shut the training off during downtime after the third day following the account going inactive.
Being CCP, they screwed up the code and thats why we had bugged downtimes that went beyond their normal length for several days after this implemented.
One of the more funny things about this was that one of the fabricated reasons given for removing ghost training was that it was a strain on the database. In all reality, ghost training posed no strain to the database at all while their efforts to stop accounts from training at the 3 day point does cause a load on the database during the daily downtimes.
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Komiliya Jenius
|
Posted - 2008.10.28 16:31:00 -
[5085]
<- goes play perfect world since they have full body avatars with ladies to oogle at.
Serisouly, Ghost nerf, releasing the Orca to win people back and now unexpected downtimes, CCP is jumping the shark.
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Shmak's Maker
|
Posted - 2008.10.28 16:33:00 -
[5086]
**** you ccp.... **** you
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Cigic
|
Posted - 2008.10.28 16:49:00 -
[5087]
I wrotw this while reffering to new expansion but it also applies here.
Someone ones said: "Democracy is worst type of totalitarianism if demos is stupid."
Regarding marketing, profit and sustainable development.
You have to distinct two basic type of your customers. A) majority - new players (mainly high sec)- industrial type - without deeper understanding of this game or any other game - moving from game to game - MOST WHINING and posting in general B) minority - long term players with deep game understanding, rarely posting or whining - they live EVE!! They don't dig graphics and medals that much. Real value for them is playabilty, functionability and openess of the game.
If you rely on conclusions made from your customer care service you'll end up in deep **** cos you are led more or less by customer A. They will continue to come and leave anyway. They are mass led by trend, without knowing who they are and what they want. They love to chat and post comments.
You should rely on customer B. You should make plans (cost of development, focus of development, cost of maintenence etc.) based on that pipe. That policy would guarantee your survival and overall success. And our happiness. It seems that you are a bit of that stream now. Unless this its already exit strategy. Lets take what we can.
This is definitely strike vs B customer cos it takes ages to get one skill level up.
Regards
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Richard Aiel
Caldari Caldari Provisions
|
Posted - 2008.10.28 17:15:00 -
[5088]
Originally by: Chindi Yazzie Edited by: Chindi Yazzie on 28/10/2008 07:39:28 Accounts Cancelled. Stuff given away or in the process of being given away. CCP likes to Ban people for raising questions. You lost 4 accounts from this household. We found a nice free game to play while we wait for the other Space Based MMO's to come out. Surprising amount of content, limited characters. Korean grind fest yes, but better than most with a surprising depth to the game. Bit hard to learn at first as the documentation is shall we say, limited.
We are saddened by CCP's steadfast refusal to do much more than continue their lies, and refusal to speak with the people who pay their wages.
CCP, your welcome to delete my accounts. They won't ever be used again. I don't pay companies I don't trust, to disrespect me, lie to me and ignore me.
....................../¦»/) ....................,/»../ .................../..../ ............./¦»/'...'/¦»»`++ ........../'/.../..../......./¿»\ ........('(...¦...¦.... »~/'...') .........\.................'...../ ..........''...\.......... _.+¦ ............\..............( ..............\.............\...
from my family to yours.
CY
the simple fact that that middle finger hasnt been edited shows how much CCP is looking into this thread ------------------------------------------------ CCP you are your own worst enemy. ------------------------------------------------ |
Richard Aiel
Caldari Caldari Provisions
|
Posted - 2008.10.28 17:19:00 -
[5089]
Originally by: Chris Stormrider I'll be happy if this thread reaches 171 pages and become the biggest in these forums
but I don't think the people that left and are coming back, nor do I think allowing ghost training will make any difference, since it's beside the point.
also, someone losing his job over this would be also good
be aware the last person to suggest this was banned on the grounds of "personal attacks against CCP enployees" ------------------------------------------------ CCP you are your own worst enemy. ------------------------------------------------ |
Gleamor
|
Posted - 2008.10.28 17:31:00 -
[5090]
Way to go CCP. I must congratulate you on fixing this "bug".
How about you fix something that IS broken like the huge lagfests we have to endure during fleet battles.
/meh |
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Lusulpher
Raddick Explorations BlackWater.
|
Posted - 2008.10.28 17:56:00 -
[5091]
Originally by: Squirrrel
Originally by: Lusulpher
I will continue playing and whining until skill queue is put in by CSM or whoever. This is not Central America, stay and fight for what is yours dammit.
You ever hear the saying that the pen is mightier than the sword? Quitting seems to be the only thing CCP might listen to, and I'm not being charged for trying to make my point either. In effect they are being charged as they aren't getting our money. We're just taking the power back and they themselves need to adapt or die if more people get disenchanted with them.
Originally by: Lusulpher Anything that imbalances the real world economy also better not show up in my damn gamn either, like say a myriad of economy-breaking tax loopholes and bad(greedy,selfish) decisions to acquire money and services that aren't yours...that lead to world banks failing...I'm not going to help bail you out in RL, so clean up your act ingame.
You're the one asking people for their stuff. Maybe you just roleplay a hypocrite...
Originally by: Lusulpher
STFU and open contracts.
No. Ball is yours. What you going to do with it now hotshot?
I'm going to continue paying for my 1 account and posting/balancing the feedback channels...as usual.
CCP did adapt, they closed a "loophole(advertised game feature and I'm a bit ****ed, but realize businesses can change model)". What is the other MMO that gives away free service like that? Guild Wars does, but it's still getting it's ass kicked financially by WoW. Why? No clue. CCP had longest trial period too, set the bar, no praise there...And what's this? FREE EXPANSIONS BI-ANNUALLY!!! We don't have to just rebuy the game?! WHAT THE EVERLOVING-**** CCP?
Seems to me players are pretty ungrateful to games with free content they get on gift terms only. For free stuff is NOT the market norm.
Asking for your stuff IS balancing the economy. If a noob has faction stuff off the market and his account is cancelled, it won't be deleted, CCP holds those accounts for eons...Either they delete possible reactivations or you give the stuff away, so it can be used, blown up AND reseeded.
I dunk your ball, sir!!!
STFU, Open Contracts...Lusulpher's the name, being God's the game. Live and Let Die...All of it...null |
oilio
Caldari State War Academy
|
Posted - 2008.10.28 18:09:00 -
[5092]
Edited by: oilio on 28/10/2008 18:09:26
Originally by: Lusulpher
CCP did adapt, they closed a "loophole(advertised game feature and I'm a bit ****ed, but realize businesses can change model)". What is the other MMO that gives away free service like that? Guild Wars does, but it's still getting it's ass kicked financially by WoW. Why? No clue. CCP had longest trial period too, set the bar, no praise there...And what's this? FREE EXPANSIONS BI-ANNUALLY!!! We don't have to just rebuy the game?! WHAT THE EVERLOVING-**** CCP?
Seems to me players are pretty ungrateful to games with free content they get on gift terms only. For free stuff is NOT the market norm.
Asking for your stuff IS balancing the economy. If a noob has faction stuff off the market and his account is cancelled, it won't be deleted, CCP holds those accounts for eons...Either they delete possible reactivations or you give the stuff away, so it can be used, blown up AND reseeded.
You're missing the point (deliberately trolling, I suspect).
1. CUSTOMERS are upset that there is a change in the terms and conditions which affects them negatively. An advertised feature has been removed.
2. CUSTOMERS are upset that the change was made at very short notice (48 hours), and came RIGHT AFTER the "power of two" promotion that encouraged players to have multiple accounts.
3. CUSTOMERS are upset that CCP plucked reasons out of thin-air, and basically treated them like they could feed them any amount of ****, and they would buy it.
4. CUSTOMERS are upset about the previous changes to GTCs and the way that was handled.
5. NOTHING IN EVE IS FREE. The expansions aren't free. They are paid for by people's subscriptions which are higher than most MMORPGS. Only ONE character on any account can be trained at any one time - unlike most RPGs. GHOSTS TRAINING WASN'T FREE! You had to pay a subscription to get the character training that skill, and then you had to come back and pay again to use that skill. YOU DON'T GET TO USE YOUR TRAINED SKILL UNLESS YOU PAY!
Bottom line - players now have to pay MORE than they did to achieve what they used to, and CCP bull****ted the playerbase about it, and massively censored all complaints, and tried to hide all discussion about it for as long as they could.
Hence CUSTOMERS are upset. |
Seth Vorlar
|
Posted - 2008.10.28 20:18:00 -
[5093]
The longer i read this thread my anoyance against CCP grows and grows, hey CCP you are killing our game, not yet, not emidiately, but over the time you will face the fact that you will lose about 30% off you playerbase. TBH i only know ONE person in this game that plays only with ONE ACC, all the others are playing 2..3..4.... and ALL of them are up to chancel or move there chars to one or max two acc, i suggest you make Torfivotz a nice present if you lose your JOBS in a YEAR.
A KICK IN HIS FACE
2 off my 4 acc are unsubbed 1 more to go ...... |
Shmak's Maker
|
Posted - 2008.10.28 20:27:00 -
[5094]
**** you ccp...... |
Vama Mapri
|
Posted - 2008.10.28 20:33:00 -
[5095]
Originally by: Lusulpher
Originally by: Squirrrel
Originally by: Lusulpher
I will continue playing and whining until skill queue is put in by CSM or whoever. This is not Central America, stay and fight for what is yours dammit.
You ever hear the saying that the pen is mightier than the sword? Quitting seems to be the only thing CCP might listen to, and I'm not being charged for trying to make my point either. In effect they are being charged as they aren't getting our money. We're just taking the power back and they themselves need to adapt or die if more people get disenchanted with them.
Originally by: Lusulpher Anything that imbalances the real world economy also better not show up in my damn gamn either, like say a myriad of economy-breaking tax loopholes and bad(greedy,selfish) decisions to acquire money and services that aren't yours...that lead to world banks failing...I'm not going to help bail you out in RL, so clean up your act ingame.
You're the one asking people for their stuff. Maybe you just roleplay a hypocrite...
Originally by: Lusulpher
STFU and open contracts.
No. Ball is yours. What you going to do with it now hotshot?
I'm going to continue paying for my 1 account and posting/balancing the feedback channels...as usual.
CCP did adapt, they closed a "loophole(advertised game feature and I'm a bit ****ed, but realize businesses can change model)". What is the other MMO that gives away free service like that? Guild Wars does, but it's still getting it's ass kicked financially by WoW. Why? No clue. CCP had longest trial period too, set the bar, no praise there...And what's this? FREE EXPANSIONS BI-ANNUALLY!!! We don't have to just rebuy the game?! WHAT THE EVERLOVING-**** CCP?
Seems to me players are pretty ungrateful to games with free content they get on gift terms only. For free stuff is NOT the market norm.
Asking for your stuff IS balancing the economy. If a noob has faction stuff off the market and his account is cancelled, it won't be deleted, CCP holds those accounts for eons...Either they delete possible reactivations or you give the stuff away, so it can be used, blown up AND reseeded.
I dunk your ball, sir!!!
STFU, Open Contracts...Lusulpher's the name, being God's the game.
Show me ANY MMO that after playing for 4+ years you still haven't reached level cap/skill max points in and then try telling me why Ghost training ISN'T something that's needed for this game.
You also seem to forget that CCP get's FREE payment for every minute you aren't logged in the game for which you've paid for. If this game was a pay as you play then fine I wouldn't mind my training only training while i'm playing BECAUSE i'd only be PAYING while i'm playing and NOT paying while I'm offline.
So please don't spout how we moan about not getting free stuff when CCP get's FREE PAYMENT everytime someone isn't logged into the game.
A 60 day gamecard should be exactly that 60 day's of ONLINE time, not 60 day's whether your on or not.
CCP is just a bunch of hypocrites. |
Richard Aiel
Caldari Caldari Provisions
|
Posted - 2008.10.28 20:58:00 -
[5096]
CCP has edited this thread and taken out at LEAST 2 posts but they STILL havent posted A SINGLE STATEMENT about this subject in this thread. THEY DONT CARE. |
Hudhayfah
|
Posted - 2008.10.28 22:07:00 -
[5097]
Edited by: Hudhayfah on 28/10/2008 22:08:09 I made it ... another page...
Well I'am sure that everyone here knows one of the most common rules regarding chat channels...
When being teased... or with reds present...
Don't talk back or Don't talk in 'local'
That's what CCP is doing..
I wonder if after today this thread gets deleted, for stressing the servers
|
SZ Rota
Caldari Eve University Ivy League
|
Posted - 2008.10.28 22:08:00 -
[5098]
Edited by: SZ Rota on 28/10/2008 22:12:03
As oilio posted, nothing is free, NOTHING, in the business world anyway.
ôFreeö is an illusion created to attract customers. If an illusion does make customers happy, and it isnÆt hurting anyone, then I guess sometimes maybe itÆs a nice illusion, but itÆs a deception nonetheless.
Everything a business spends goes to costs, and all that cost is subtracted from income to tally profit, itÆs that simple. Something æfreeÆ is just another cost for a company, used to bring in more customers.
While weÆre on the subject of æfreeÆ expansions, I know IÆm going to get flamed for this but, Eve is NOT a content game. Eve is a sandbox. The æcontentÆ relative to other games is paper thin, shallow as a street puddle.
The last æexpansionÆ Empyrean Age was 39Mb, stunningly small relative to what other games call an expansion. ThatÆs the size of a few Youtube videos. .
If youÆre still not getting it, ask yourself how seldom Eve players and company point out the fact that there are æfreeÆ expansions in Eve.
ItÆs super surprising that itÆs rarely mentioned in this thread. That, in itself, is highly revealing about how this game works. CCP does NOT toil day in and day out to make æcontentÆ for players the same way other companies do. Eve has been, and apparently always will be, primarily driven by interactions with other players, NOT by player interaction with content provided by CCP.
Want another case in point? Missions like æReconÆ æAngel ExtravaganzaÆ æWorlds CollideÆ are so well known by all Eve players because theyÆve been done a zillion times. EveÆs missions are not equivalent to quests in other games, theyÆre equivalent to what they call ædailiesÆ in other games, repeatable quests people do to grind money and faction.
This is just another one of the many issues where most Eve players live in open denial.
Eve, I repeat, is NOT a æcontentÆ game where CCP has to put a lot of resources into entertaining the customers. The paper thin pve content of the game is easily paid for by subscriptions over more than half a decade since release. THAT is why Eve can give æfreeÆ expansions.
Also, CCP knows that most players in most mmos like to play alts to explore various aspects of the game. ThatÆs normal, standard, usual in the mmo industry. Unlike other games, Eve skill training takes SOOOOOOOO long , and each account can only train ONE character per account at a time, that it forces people to use more than one account at various points in their Eve career, just to reach the same level of flexibility that people in other games enjoy as basic with more character slots and faster advancement timetables.
Argue whether that is good or bad for the gameplay, I donÆt care about that in this particular post, what IS important to the economics of it is that CCP and players alike know that, unlike any other mmorpg, EVE HAS A HIGH POPULATION OF PLAYERS WHO PAY FOR MORE THAN ONE ACCOUNT AT A TIME, whereas other games do NOT.
The concept of having an offer like ôThe Power of Twoö in other games is just preposterous. In other games people have plenty to do and have plenty of flexibility with one account and one subscription. Having to pay for more than one account would have people in other games up in arms. ôThe Power of Twoö?! What kind of a game restricts single accounts so much that people are coaxed into two?
Then add the recent increase in GTC prices, which entail all subscriptions involving GTCs costing 17.50/month, more than any other mmo.
Are you getting the picture?
CCP provides LESS content, while charging each player on average MORE in subscription fees, than any other mmorpg out there.
Of course, I say ôon average,ö because, yeah, some players donÆt buy isk, donÆt use GTCs, and donÆt use multiple accounts at any time in their Eve experience.
|
SZ Rota
Caldari Eve University Ivy League
|
Posted - 2008.10.28 22:09:00 -
[5099]
Ghost training was just one way to mitigate the high cost of a second or third account and it was one way all players could use to keep up with others if youÆre casual or if you wanted to take a break. Removal of ghost training increased customer cost æon averageÆ to play the game.
IÆm one of those people who just wonÆt tolerate it.
The fact that CCP in effect provides much less æcontentÆ and flexibility than other games do, while at the same time charging more on average per customer, doesnÆt necessarily mean itÆs ælessÆ of a game for any given individual.
In the end what matters to you is whether youÆre having fun and if the subscriptions are worth it to you, the gamer.
Eve is certainly different than most other mmorpgs in many ways.
If Eve makes you happy, then great, fantastic, wonderful, IÆm happy for you.
IÆve enjoyed the game myself.
Just donÆt tell me CCP was giving away the farm for æfreeÆ, because they werenÆt.
Just donÆt tell me that ghost training is about customers wanting something for æfree,Æ when CCP has already been playing customers for all theyÆre worth.
-2 accounts.
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Squirrrel
Gallente Squirrrel Industries
|
Posted - 2008.10.28 22:12:00 -
[5100]
Originally by: Hudhayfah Edited by: Hudhayfah on 28/10/2008 22:08:09 I made it ... another page...
Well I'am sure that everyone here knows one of the most common rules regarding chat channels...
When being teased... or with reds present...
Don't talk back or Don't talk in 'local'
That's what CCP is doing..
I wonder if after today this thread gets deleted, for stressing the servers
You know, I could actually go for a little smacktalk from CCP right now.
|
|
Richard Aiel
Caldari Caldari Provisions
|
Posted - 2008.10.28 22:15:00 -
[5101]
Originally by: Boomer Aires
Originally by: Richard Aiel CCP has edited this thread and taken out at LEAST 2 posts but they STILL havent posted A SINGLE STATEMENT about this subject in this thread. THEY DONT CARE.
Ohh, you mean the "one finger salute" ?
Ya that one... and the one where I quoted it as showing that CCP isnt even reading this thread. I cant link it... its been deleted... plus... if i link it my post will get deleted and I might earn my last (and perminant) ban lol Ive already had like 8 warnings ------------------------------------------------ CCP you are your own worst enemy. ------------------------------------------------ |
Squirrrel
Gallente Squirrrel Industries
|
Posted - 2008.10.28 22:23:00 -
[5102]
Edited by: Squirrrel on 28/10/2008 22:23:08
Originally by: Richard Aiel
Ya that one... and the one where I quoted it as showing that CCP isnt even reading this thread. I cant link it... its been deleted... plus... if i link it my post will get deleted and I might earn my last (and perminant) ban lol Ive already had like 8 warnings
Lol. How about a page number or two from eve-search?
If you prefer, evemail me and I'll link the damn pages - I'll just call it Rickroll or something, no one will know.
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Squirrrel
Gallente Squirrrel Industries
|
Posted - 2008.10.28 22:28:00 -
[5103]
Ah I see - post 5075 is one of them. Wasn't even that bad.
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Joey Meow
MURAKAMI INDUSTRIES
|
Posted - 2008.10.28 23:04:00 -
[5104]
Guys, CCP just wants this to die, and they do not want to be seen as callous when they lock this thread. So they will wait a week, and then lock it, since they will use this, and I quote:
"This Tread Has Run it's Course, Click," or some such stupid forum meme they have been using for years.
Basically: You will get no apology for "misinformation" by T0rfi, you will get no apology for the cover up, you will get nothing from them. They care, but they only care about shoving this thread into the forum oblivion. As you know the outside world is a bit slow about learning news on things like MMOS, so the sooner they get rid of this thread, the less chances other consumers will learn as to what exactly happened.
Good Job CCP. I read your point loud and clear.
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Squirrrel
Gallente Squirrrel Industries
|
Posted - 2008.10.28 23:18:00 -
[5105]
Originally by: Joey Meow Guys, CCP just wants this to die, and they do not want to be seen as callous when they lock this thread. So they will wait a week, and then lock it, since they will use this, and I quote:
"This Tread Has Run it's Course, Click," or some such stupid forum meme they have been using for years.
Basically: You will get no apology for "misinformation" by T0rfi, you will get no apology for the cover up, you will get nothing from them. They care, but they only care about shoving this thread into the forum oblivion. As you know the outside world is a bit slow about learning news on things like MMOS, so the sooner they get rid of this thread, the less chances other consumers will learn as to what exactly happened.
Good Job CCP. I read your point loud and clear.
Then, as a player of Eve of many years and someone with playing time still on my accounts - I hereby declare that I am finding this thread very informative and well worth it's place on the forums. I am hoping that many other players feel the same, and express their desire for this thread to remain open based on those or similar reasons.
|
h zebra
|
Posted - 2008.10.28 23:20:00 -
[5106]
Originally by: Joey Meow Guys, CCP just wants this to die, and they do not want to be seen as callous when they lock this thread. So they will wait a week, and then lock it, since they will use this, and I quote:
"This Tread Has Run it's Course, Click," or some such stupid forum meme they have been using for years.
Basically: You will get no apology for "misinformation" by T0rfi, you will get no apology for the cover up, you will get nothing from them. They care, but they only care about shoving this thread into the forum oblivion. As you know the outside world is a bit slow about learning news on things like MMOS, so the sooner they get rid of this thread, the less chances other consumers will learn as to what exactly happened.
Good Job CCP. I read your point loud and clear.
yep, bury this post under a great many blogs ccp see how fast it gets to page 2 and quickly lock it.
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Richard Aiel
Caldari Caldari Provisions
|
Posted - 2008.10.28 23:49:00 -
[5107]
Edited by: Richard Aiel on 28/10/2008 23:51:20
Originally by: Squirrrel
Originally by: Joey Meow Guys, CCP just wants this to die, and they do not want to be seen as callous when they lock this thread. So they will wait a week, and then lock it, since they will use this, and I quote:
"This Tread Has Run it's Course, Click," or some such stupid forum meme they have been using for years.
Basically: You will get no apology for "misinformation" by T0rfi, you will get no apology for the cover up, you will get nothing from them. They care, but they only care about shoving this thread into the forum oblivion. As you know the outside world is a bit slow about learning news on things like MMOS, so the sooner they get rid of this thread, the less chances other consumers will learn as to what exactly happened.
Good Job CCP. I read your point loud and clear.
Then, as a player of Eve of many years and someone with playing time still on my accounts - I hereby declare that I am finding this thread very informative and well worth it's place on the forums. I am hoping that many other players feel the same, and express their desire for this thread to remain open based on those or similar reasons.
I for one am linking this thread to every forum I visit regularly - even the ones where ppl go "wtf why the hell would I care about this?? Wtf is EVE??" lol ppl WILL know
oh btw: THIS S-hit is priceless. Ask this dude anything then the thread gets locked http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=905942 ------------------------------------------------ CCP you are your own worst enemy. ------------------------------------------------ |
Squirrrel
Gallente Squirrrel Industries
|
Posted - 2008.10.28 23:58:00 -
[5108]
Originally by: Richard Aiel
oh btw: THIS S-hit is priceless. Ask this dude anything then the thread gets locked http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=905942
To be fair they did state they would lock it at midnight of the 26th in the OP.
Can't really have a go at them about that. I don't recall seeing any answers about the "Ghost Training" bug in there - another huge PR stunt to prove they DO listen and talk to their customers.
Transparent at best.
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Richard Aiel
Caldari Caldari Provisions
|
Posted - 2008.10.29 00:03:00 -
[5109]
Edited by: Richard Aiel on 29/10/2008 00:05:05 well the ****s STILL priceless... no answers about unsubbed training, but someone asks about how character creation will work in ambulation, dude give the answer:
Quote:
Ambulation char creation: I have no idea, I think that's a bridge we need to cross closer to release.
anyone else thinking ambulation is just a pipe dream?
whoa whoa whoa... an answer about unsubbed training!
Quote:
Ghost training handling: Yes, we know we could have handled that better and have learned important lessons from that.
it was a learning experience. they learned their lesson now theyre moving on lol ------------------------------------------------ CCP you are your own worst enemy. ------------------------------------------------ |
Fyzikz
|
Posted - 2008.10.29 01:29:00 -
[5110]
CCP Wrangler,
It is intresting. The reasons I Started playing eve was they treated thier players better then other MMO's being a military guy it was nice to know that should I get deployed and my susbscription lapse my trainig at least would be alright. Its also humorous to note that you did wait to enact this change until after you baited peole into creating new accounts witht he "power of 2" crap. You claim it was a bug, but all the beginner online information I read when I joined highlighted the fact that training would continue when inactive. You even forgot to edit the starting guides till after you fixed this selling point.... er sorry "bug." I guess the ethics of the CCP Dev team is questionable, regardless 49 pages of outrage on a locked thread and another 170 on this thread whould tell you that your player base is not happy with this. Dont forget who pays your bills.
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Soma Khan
|
Posted - 2008.10.29 01:33:00 -
[5111]
Originally by: leechers
...apologize to us!!!11... give us free stuffs!11!...moar attention nao!!!111...
Simple truth:
___
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Mark19960
Gallente PURE Legion Pure.
|
Posted - 2008.10.29 03:25:00 -
[5112]
This does not mean anything to a new player.. just old players. New players won't care one way or another and that is what they want..
They already got all the money they want out of the older playerbase. Chances of them listening when there are unofficial postings in other threads here on the forums that only a few hundred accounts were lost - zero A few hundred older players is a drop in the bucket.
Of course they could be lying and I would not put it past them to lie.
My accounts are all canceled, I was tired of eve anyhow and this was my nudge out the door.
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Yeknom Nam
|
Posted - 2008.10.29 03:43:00 -
[5113]
*************Date Oct 15****************** Petition Body This account(_ACCOUNTNAME2_) was created using the 'Power of Two' promotion from its parent account _ACCOUNTNAME_.
This second account was created with the knowledge and existence of "Ghost Training." I am not going to argue the necessity for or against the removal of this feature. Nor am I going to argue whether "Ghost Training" is a feature or long existing well documented bug.
However, I will argue that the ability of "Ghost Training" was the reason this Power of Two account was created. I will argue that two accounts, for a single player, should not be necessary to fully experience an online video game. I will argue that the recent promotion of "Power of Two" and the end of "Ghost Training"(the way it was handled) has violated my trust in your company. I will argue that the recent promotion of "Power of Two" and the end of "Ghost Training" constitutes "bait and switch."
I do understand the load my unwanted characters/accounts may have on your server hardware. I suggest deleting them completely from your database to avoid this load. I am also asking for reimbursement of the $49.95 that was deducted from my account for the creation of '_ACCOUNTNAME2_'.
Let me state this again. I was taken advantage of and I want a reimbursement of the money I feel was wrongly taken. I want nothing more to do with eve-online and want nothing more to do with CCP.
If this is not the proper avenue to submit this complaint/request, I am asking the reader to make sure it is directed to the proper persons or to contact me with information necessary to submit this complaint to the proper persons.
Thanks for your time. Have a nice day.
****** ***** *********.***@gmail.com **********************************
****************************************************************** **CCP's first reply, only took two days, that's a record right? ** Sent - 10/17/2008 10:25:00 AM
Hi.
I'm afraid that we can not offer you a reimbursement due to this change.
Best regards Senior GM Panic EVE Online Customer Support
**********************End of first CCP reply***********************
************************My reply*********************************** Sent - 10/20/2008 6:30:00 PM
Well, that was short and bitter. Just a big "no." No offer to meet me half way, no offer to somehow prorate the time played with the remaining month's left on this subscription.
I wonder what my CC company thinks about "bait and switch?"
SIGNED-
********************************************************************
******************CCP's latest reply******************************** Sent - 10/22/2008 9:40:00 AM (seems to be a two day turnaround on everything)
This "Ghost Training" was never advertised as a part of the power of 2 offer you paid for. The offer was for a new account which would be open for six months at a reduced price, this is exactly what you have received.
Best regards Senior GM Panic EVE Online Customer Support *******************************************************************
My final thoughts.
Getting a d*ck in my a$$ wasn't advertised either... Go fsck yourself.
Yeah "Ghost Training" was not advertised as part of Power of Two, you dipsh*t. It was understood for all accounts not just those newly created ones with a stupid seasonal sales promotion.
Anyways I'm done, I have been done. I have only signed on this account to view the petition and forum since this change. Know this CCP. I will never touch anything and I will never recommend anything that has your name associated.
-2
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Richard Aiel
Caldari Caldari Provisions
|
Posted - 2008.10.29 04:19:00 -
[5114]
Its sad that World of Darkness is going to fail because White Wolf made the mistake of hooking up with this company
It would have been interesting ------------------------------------------------ CCP you are your own worst enemy. ------------------------------------------------ |
IR Scoutar
Caldari State War Academy
|
Posted - 2008.10.29 05:03:00 -
[5115]
Since i cannot reply to CCP Zulupark directly anymore in the topics
Originally by: CCP Zulupark
Hellmar: I've already said myself that we could and should have handled the original announcement on ghost training much better. I don't know what more you want :)
For the uptenth time
I dont care about the change itself I dont even care much how you handled it (its your own fault) I dont want an explenation I dont care than you say you will learn from it I dont want YOU to apologise or explain
What i want is realy simple:
I want the BOSS of CCP to come forth and say in an official place like a Dev Blog: Listen we are sorry for WHAT we sayd
i dont care much for how you sayd it thats your own problem and you can ideed learn from it and ccp has already sayd so
and just so i dont have to repeat myself AGAIN DB performance = Lie(or the DB guys are plain Stupid and you are not even using ACCESS) Bug/Oversight = Lie (or nobody knows anything about game design) Subsequent explenations/state done at a completly unrelated website or devblog or dev post do count aswell but not to the core lies so i wont dwell into them
Originally by: Yeknom Nam Stuff
first ... gm comunication is gona get nerfed to infinity second its quite interesting....
Another prime example of how things should be handled differently and with more respect to the customer. Not saying that you deserve reimbruisement or anything, just the replys themselves are less than courteous
Originally by: Soma Kahn ...trolling..
WoW is -> that way if you want to be a troll
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Richard Aiel
Caldari Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2008.10.29 06:01:00 -
[5116]
Do not provide nutrients for those who dwell beneath suspended ground transportation structures ------------------------------------------------ CCP you are your own worst enemy. ------------------------------------------------ |
Malcolm Gerwulf
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Posted - 2008.10.29 06:32:00 -
[5117]
I had a fun, casual experience with EVE but I will not be resubscribing again. Only 2 accounts that admittedly ghost trained whenever possible, but they will never be back. There are more interested, if less "hardcore" games out there at this moment, and Jumpgate Evolution and other will hit someday. I guess I'll just have to spend my money on WRATH OF THE LOL KING instead.
Ghost training was a "feature" for a long time, the removal of it was very poorly timed and in poor taste. |
Richard Aiel
Caldari Caldari Provisions
|
Posted - 2008.10.29 07:16:00 -
[5118]
Isnt it interesting that just about a month prior to WoW's latest expansion coming out, that CCP decides to go ahead and do something that they HAVE TO KNOW is going to **** off a significant number of their player base.
They do something that is going to cause angry people to leave the game right when they SHOULD logically be doing the EXACT opposite.
Then, after they anger their players, they compound the blunder by lying to us about it on several occasions, and refuse to talk about it at all.
CMON
I mean REALLY now...
Are we to believe that the ppl at CCP are THAT stupid? That NOONE caught on to that this was a bad move while they were doing it? NOONE at the company thought this was a bad move with another MMO releasing a major expansion just a month down the line? They are saying now they learned their lesson... is they a way of saying they didnt know better until now?
I think they knew exactly what they were doing. There is no such thing as bad publicity.
The influx of new players has to outnumber the old players leaving. This is the only reason I can really think of that CCP hasnt made ANY move to placate their players.
Once WotLK drops, all those disenfranchised WoW players that have started to come here will go back there (even if it is for a little while) and CCP will start to see their numbers really decline.
Maybe this was the plan all along.
To reduce lag and stress on their precious servers, they do something that will drive people away from the game just as another game is drawing them in.
Or maybe CCP always intended this to be a "niche" game and it was just becoming TOO successful, TOO mainstream for them, and they feel the need to prune it back some.
More likely, they are just banking on the idea that the old players will leave, to be replaced by new players who have never heard of unsubbed training, and eventually, the whole thing will be forgotten entirely. This last idea goes along nicely with why this thread has been unstickied.
I am honestly waiting for the mod to come along and do the "This thread has run its course. Now its just spam. Click"
------------------------------------------------ CCP you are your own worst enemy. ------------------------------------------------ |
Tivookz
Caldari IMPERIAL SENATE Pure.
|
Posted - 2008.10.29 08:15:00 -
[5119]
Edited by: Tivookz on 29/10/2008 08:19:24 Edited by: Tivookz on 29/10/2008 08:18:11
Originally by: Yeknom Nam
Petition Body This account(_ACCOUNTNAME2_) was created using the 'Power of Two' promotion from its parent account _ACCOUNTNAME_.
This second account was created with the knowledge and existence of "Ghost Training." I am not going to argue the necessity for or against the removal of this feature. Nor am I going to argue whether "Ghost Training" is a feature or long existing well documented bug.
However, I will argue that the ability of "Ghost Training" was the reason this Power of Two account was created. I will argue that two accounts, for a single player, should not be necessary to fully experience an online video game. I will argue that the recent promotion of "Power of Two" and the end of "Ghost Training"(the way it was handled) has violated my trust in your company. I will argue that the recent promotion of "Power of Two" and the end of "Ghost Training" constitutes "bait and switch."
I do understand the load my unwanted characters/accounts may have on your server hardware. I suggest deleting them completely from your database to avoid this load. I am also asking for reimbursement of the $49.95 that was deducted from my account for the creation of '_ACCOUNTNAME2_'.
Let me state this again. I was taken advantage of and I want a reimbursement of the money I feel was wrongly taken. I want nothing more to do with eve-online and want nothing more to do with CCP.
If this is not the proper avenue to submit this complaint/request, I am asking the reader to make sure it is directed to the proper persons or to contact me with information necessary to submit this complaint to the proper persons.
Thanks for your time. Have a nice day.
****** ***** *********.***@gmail.com
**CCP's first reply, only took two days, that's a record right? ** Sent - 10/17/2008 10:25:00 AM
Hi.
I'm afraid that we can not offer you a reimbursement due to this change.
Best regards Senior GM Panic EVE Online Customer Support
**********************End of first CCP reply***********************
************************My reply Sent - 10/20/2008 6:30:00 PM
Well, that was short and bitter. Just a big "no." No offer to meet me half way, no offer to somehow prorate the time played with the remaining month's left on this subscription.
I wonder what my CC company thinks about "bait and switch?"
SIGNED-
******************CCP's latest reply******************************** Sent - 10/22/2008 9:40:00 AM (seems to be a two day turnaround on everything)
This "Ghost Training" was never advertised as a part of the power of 2 offer you paid for. The offer was for a new account which would be open for six months at a reduced price, this is exactly what you have received.
Best regards Senior GM Panic EVE Online Customer Support
My final thoughts.
Getting a d*ck in my a$$ wasn't advertised either... Go fsck yourself.
Yeah "Ghost Training" was not advertised as part of Power of Two, you dipsh*t. It was understood for all accounts not just those newly created ones with a stupid seasonal sales promotion.
Anyways I'm done, I have been done. I have only signed on this account to view the petition and forum since this change. Know this CCP. I will never touch anything and I will never recommend anything that has your name associated.
-2
Add to your petition that you read in the players guide that skills progress on accounts that are unsubscribed and that you were fooled to believe this was the way it works.
Because that is something they ninja edited after ghost training hit/after you initiated your power of two account.
Also, to quote a casual player taken from another forum:
Originally by: jagdpanther I played eve off and on, and this "ghost training" actually gave me incentive to come back after a break because I knew I would have a nice big shiny new skill waiting for me. Oh well, one more reason for me not to play eve at all anymore.
Tiv __________________________________________________
Hating Cash Craving Productions since oct 15th 2008 |
Chib
Storm Guard Elite
|
Posted - 2008.10.29 09:33:00 -
[5120]
If you take something away as an advertsied feature
then at least give something back
multiple account discount? skill training queue?
i blame the surge in the trend on people ghost training chars to sell and yes...thats a problem because those people are getting something for nothing
but removing it has made ALOT of the older players angry because now we get much less value for money. before it was ok,i own 2 accounts and sometimes when cash was a little tight i could drop one for a couple of weeks but now im expected to pay for 2 accounts all the time even though im only getting 1 or 2 levels of any 1 particular skill trained in a 2 month period
thats insane compared to other mmo's
if you wont put it back then the training system needs revamped so the older lot get value for their money as in the current world economic crisis we like you dont have money to throw away
my accounts run out on the 21st nov......and even considering the recent server issues taking a couple of days off me where i couldnt even play the game some of my game time has gone into oblivion
unless its back or another system is implemented then i wont be renewing them
---------------------------------------------
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Arnt
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Posted - 2008.10.29 10:48:00 -
[5121]
What I want is a way to :
- Delete my characters on currently non suscribed accounts - Be sure to NEVER again receive any kind of mail from CCP
This change is for me the perfect moment to get rid of my Eve's addiction :) |
Dzark Biznatch
Caldari Dzark Asylum
|
Posted - 2008.10.29 11:12:00 -
[5122]
Posting in the most EPIC CCP FAIL thread ever.
This is an outstanding achievement for CCP as they have had a quite few. So to top them all is just pure LOL.
-3 Account here
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Joey Meow
MURAKAMI INDUSTRIES
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Posted - 2008.10.29 11:26:00 -
[5123]
Hey, you are all wrong, CCP is right!
CCP Designed this game around alts, they made it in such a way that it is impossible to avoid having a second, or in many respects even a third account. Since, someone mentioned in this thread before, CCP introduced the "Power Of 2" deal, this dual boxing/dual/triple accounting has become a tacitly approved and encouraged by CCP. So, what they did was a smart move, for them, short term.
Average age of eve player is 7 months, then they quit. So, my guess is that it will drop down to 5 or 4 or something. With such a high rate of turnover, and with people unable to afford second accounts, I am sure this will soon take its toll on CCP bottom line.
Honestly, all I want to do is be there when they: A) put the feature back, so I can tell them "I told you so" B) announce that they are going out of business ( we all know due to the moronic way they have handled number of things,not just unsubbed training) so I can tell them "I told you so."
This whole thing has been mired in lies, deceit, disrespect to the players. They treated us like idiots, with the database crap, game balance crap, they have banned people when they called for CCP employes who deceived the player base to resign. Basically, this is a huge mess, and I hope it will become a PR problem for CCP, that is the only way they will learn.
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xxOutlawxx
Caldari Sounds Of Violence Pupule 'Ohana
|
Posted - 2008.10.29 11:48:00 -
[5124]
I've been playing eve-online for over 3 and a half years.
I given up playing eve-online last week.
It seems CCP is turning into another SOE. Once they get big they don't give a crap about their customers anymore, only their money!
Change of Life style for me, Speed nerf's and the Ghost training has taken its toll with me. CCP be sure you just loss another subscriber who has 3 accounts that won't resubscribing back!
Good Luck to your future hope as a MMPOG. Btw I'm sure you need to fix your press review about your rating's its a bit out of date, I think its a bug!
Eve gives me the chance to waste my life away! Thanks CCP you did it again! |
Tasty Bit
Gallente UNITED STAR SYNDICATE
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Posted - 2008.10.29 12:00:00 -
[5125]
In the above petition about the ghost training tempting someone to get a new account (I write this out since the post will likely be censored....)
"Best regards Senior GM Panic EVE Online Customer Support"
Interesting name, indeed.
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Zach meii
|
Posted - 2008.10.29 12:18:00 -
[5126]
Originally by: xxOutlawxx I've been playing eve-online for over 3 and a half years.
I given up playing eve-online last week.
It seems CCP is turning into another SOE. Once they get big they don't give a crap about their customers anymore, only their money!
Change of Life style for me, Speed nerf's and the Ghost training has taken its toll with me. CCP be sure you just loss another subscriber who has 3 accounts that won't resubscribing back!
Good Luck to your future hope as a MMPOG. Btw I'm sure you need to fix your press review about your rating's its a bit out of date, I think its a bug!
i know xxOutlawxx Personaly, he is a fenatic eve-online player as i have become, - 2 accounts here
not to mention no more recomendations to friends in WoW, PW, and SL and just about everybody i've recommended to join is going to leave at the end of there subscription.
good luck on your trip in the fail train. Woot woo
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IR Scoutar
Caldari State War Academy
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Posted - 2008.10.29 12:42:00 -
[5127]
page 171 and still no apology >_<
still a month to go till this account runs out of gametime i can wait
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Dian Cecht
Omnicorp Enterprises
|
Posted - 2008.10.29 13:24:00 -
[5128]
I have four accounts. Just a little comparison between a few of the most popular games.
The cost of maxing out 4 characters per month:
Eve $14.95 x 4 = $59.80 Lord of the rings = $14.99 Everquest II = $14.99 World of Warcraft = $14.95
On most sharded games can you max out all your characters slots, then log on to another server and max out even more. So value for money wise, Eve is the most expensive. Ghost training went some way to offset that.
MMORPG reference
Dian
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Institutional Afker
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Posted - 2008.10.29 14:49:00 -
[5129]
this is funny , i started this account because i was able to train skill when i couldn't log on for a month (not pay either...)
talking about false advertisement
ohwell 2 months and then i might just let both my accounts run out for good... I never ever have seen a bussiness screw itself over this hard...
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Fawziyyah
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Posted - 2008.10.29 14:50:00 -
[5130]
There is a nice way for CCP make up to us...
Just permit multiple char training and multiple client run with one account.
That's my point.
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Richard Aiel
Caldari Caldari Provisions
|
Posted - 2008.10.29 15:20:00 -
[5131]
Originally by: Fawziyyah There is a nice way for CCP make up to us...
Just permit multiple char training and multiple client run with one account.
That's my point.
Dude in the answers thread sez flat out they are NOT doing anything with skill training. ------------------------------------------------ CCP you are your own worst enemy. ------------------------------------------------ |
Tasty Bit
Gallente UNITED STAR SYNDICATE
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Posted - 2008.10.29 15:59:00 -
[5132]
Originally by: Richard Aiel
Originally by: Fawziyyah There is a nice way for CCP make up to us...
Just permit multiple char training and multiple client run with one account.
That's my point.
Dude in the answers thread sez flat out they are NOT doing anything with skill training.
Training more than 1 char per account is far more harmful than doing away with ghost training. It won't happen.
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Duskadantor
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Posted - 2008.10.29 16:02:00 -
[5133]
So even MMORPG websites are hitting out at CCP, how mature is that?
The below read in a news article @ www.massively.com
'While some of these news items are mentioned in the latest EVE Online newsletter (aside from the ghost training fiasco), CCP Games has also given some attention to the EVE community itself, something Massively has been been taking note of as well.'
Main Entry: fi+as+co Pronunciation: \fē-ˈas-(ˌ)kō also -ˈSs-\ Function: noun Inflected Form(s): plural fi+as+coes Etymology: French, from Italian, from fare fiasco, literally, to make a bottle Date: circa 1854
: a complete failure
What makes them think they can call this a failure & two days after server patch implementation? Eve is still up and running, players still present in-game and now CCP will get paid for 100% of their services.
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Richard Aiel
Caldari Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2008.10.29 16:04:00 -
[5134]
When even mods are saying that hundreds of ppl have left the game because of this "fix", Id call that a fiasco ------------------------------------------------ CCP you are your own worst enemy. ------------------------------------------------ |
NupetietVer
Neuro Cartographic Services
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Posted - 2008.10.29 16:13:00 -
[5135]
I guess the server connection issues have deflected attention from this issue.
Because of the Ghost Nerf, i'm a lvl 30 Forum poster.
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Cyxopyc
The Dead Parrot Shoppe Inc.
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Posted - 2008.10.29 16:17:00 -
[5136]
Bug or not a lot of players found ghost training important to them in how they played EVE, for five years.
It would have been nice to have more warning about it's removal but a few days is much better than none at all.
Before or at the time ghost training was removed it would have helped to add new features for players in the form of:
1) Skill Queue for at least one skill. Just one skill in queue would prevent many hours of lost training for active accounts. 2) Expiring Account Notification by email and/or client login. 3) Improved notification that a skill has completed training on an account in game. I find the I miss current notification and fail to see the white character sheet box for hours at times. Also add email notification. 4) The ability to set skill training through a web page.
Better late then never... you can still add them :)
== Support fixing the EVE UI |
Corwain
Gallente Aliastra
|
Posted - 2008.10.29 16:21:00 -
[5137]
Originally by: Duskadantor So even MMORPG websites are hitting out at CCP, how mature is that?
Alright, who the heck let the fanboy into this thread? -- Distortion| Distortion 2 Preview |
IR Scoutar
Caldari State War Academy
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Posted - 2008.10.29 16:24:00 -
[5138]
171 pages (+49) and over 200k views
thats got to be a record!
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Skylar Vodkabar
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Posted - 2008.10.29 16:28:00 -
[5139]
All Taken From Shattered Crystal:
Age of Conan- 60 days-29.99
LotR- 60 days-29.99
Tabula Rasa-60 day- 29.99
Warhammer-60 day- 29.99
WoW-60 day- 29.99
Eve-60 day- 34.99
I remember how CCP said they were standardizing their GTC/ETC's prices and time to reflect industry standards, but it seems that someone figured out that since time is paramont in this game, CCP could charge 49.99 for a 60 day GTC and get away with it because a 5 year old Char is not simply going to deactivate his account due to Rage Quitting. Neither is a 1 year old player either.
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Lorac Caladon
Caldari The Cowboy Junkies
|
Posted - 2008.10.29 16:39:00 -
[5140]
Originally by: Skylar Vodkabar ...because a 5 year old Char is not simply going to deactivate his account due to Rage Quitting. Neither is a 1 year old player either.
Both of my accounts were/are about 3 years old and I let 1 expire and cancelled the other over the recent changes (GTC, "Ghost Training").
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Xavier Holtzman
Dark Star Cartel
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Posted - 2008.10.29 17:36:00 -
[5141]
-1 4 year account.
Don't bother, I've already given away 95% of all my assets.....approximately 4-5 billion isk in ships, modules and isk. At least my friends who are still playing can enjoy my battleships and marauders.
CCP needs to get a clue. Its too bad White Wolf is in cahoots with them. I've always been skeptical of the World of Darkness online game that they're in the process of creating. I'm pretty sure its gonna be based off the new Vampire game instead of the old VTM game, which was a big turn off for me. Add to the fact that CCP are liars and cheats, and you won't see me giving them another damn cent. -=Xavier Holtzman=- "I'm in love with a malicious intent." |
Fuggerin
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Posted - 2008.10.29 18:54:00 -
[5142]
|
Mark19960
Gallente PURE Legion Pure.
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Posted - 2008.10.29 20:37:00 -
[5143]
Hell, I have come out better in LotR... It's cheaper... their are no stealth nerfs... I can take a 2 month break and not be behind but a few days....
CCP lose my money because I am not a stupid person and I can read between the lines. I am taking the almost $50 a month that I paid CCP and sticking it in a savings account that I opened. (I am not BSing anyone - I'm gonna see my money grow :P)
$199 for LotR lifetime and $30 for the expansions. The scenery is nice...
CCP torfi or whoever you are... how much did you pay someone off to get your job? In all the years I have played... we have never really had a positive experience that I can remember... I remember all the bad things.
Too much negative, not enough positive. See you on the bread lines, and I surely hope you don't get hired by anyone else when you drive this company into the ground.
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oilio
Caldari State War Academy
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Posted - 2008.10.29 20:56:00 -
[5144]
It all depends on whether the outlook for CCP is as rosy as Hellmar stated in his interview.
I can't see it, to be honest. CCP is working on World of Darkness. This is a money pit - it won't yield any returns until it is out of beta and pulling subscriptions. That's years away, and until then it's just eating resources.
CCP's accounts on their website show that they had millions invested with one of the icelandic banks.
Credit is non-existent for any icelandic company right now.
People are nervous about their jobs, and cutting back on expenditure. As has been demonstrated earlier, Eve is one of the more expensive MMOs, and one where people tend to need more than one account to get the most out of the game. Other MMOs can be enjoyed for a fraction of the cost of eve, so as money gets tighter, one would expect a drift away from eve due to people having less money.
So, you would have thought that CCP would be doing their damndest to KEEP loyal customers. You would have thought that they would be introducing INCENTIVES to make people STAY.
Instead, they have done the opposite. GTCs, the latest "Power of Two" offer followed IMMEDIATELY by the "Ghost Training" fiasco is NOT going to attract more players. At best, it will have no effect, but it's near CERTAIN that it has in fact alienated a significant portion of the playerbase (hence a 171 page threadnaught in a matter of days).
So, overall it's just going to make things financially worse for CCP, and the economic climate is already very much against them.
We should know by March whether they're in trouble or not. If they're not, then the decisions they have made are vindicated. If they are, then they only have themselves to blame.
I just hope that if CCP go under, someone else comes in to rescue Eve. The game is great. CCP are not. |
Scorpius Fatalis
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Posted - 2008.10.29 21:37:00 -
[5145]
I have ZERO accounts active right now. I was planning on reactivating them when they finish training skills like Caldari BS V. My plan was to study hard while my chars make progress and in a month or two get back to them and enjoy it. Only that now I have nothing to look forward to anymore, I doubt I'll be returning to eve anytime soon if at all. Time to try warhammer i guess.
And BTW even when ghost training you still had to activate the account to change a skill so CCP were getting a lot of money for almost no service if you were really only ghost training a char and paying the sub only to change a skill it was already quite profitable for CCP IMO.
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Xavier Holtzman
Dark Star Cartel
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Posted - 2008.10.29 21:42:00 -
[5146]
Originally by: oilio The game is great. CCP are not.
QFT
Originally by: Scorpius Fatalis Time to try warhammer i guess.
I signed up for Warhammer right after cancelling my eve account. Its a pretty cool game so far. I would definitely recommend giving it a try. -=Xavier Holtzman=- "I'm in love with a malicious intent." |
HuntedMaster
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Posted - 2008.10.29 22:07:00 -
[5147]
Edited by: HuntedMaster on 29/10/2008 22:07:51
Originally by: oilio It all depends on whether the outlook for CCP is as rosy as Hellmar stated in his interview.
I can't see it, to be honest. CCP is working on World of Darkness. This is a money pit - it won't yield any returns until it is out of beta and pulling subscriptions. That's years away, and until then it's just eating resources.
CCP's accounts on their website show that they had millions invested with one of the icelandic banks.
Credit is non-existent for any icelandic company right now.
People are nervous about their jobs, and cutting back on expenditure. As has been demonstrated earlier, Eve is one of the more expensive MMOs, and one where people tend to need more than one account to get the most out of the game. Other MMOs can be enjoyed for a fraction of the cost of eve, so as money gets tighter, one would expect a drift away from eve due to people having less money.
So, you would have thought that CCP would be doing their damndest to KEEP loyal customers. You would have thought that they would be introducing INCENTIVES to make people STAY.
Instead, they have done the opposite. GTCs, the latest "Power of Two" offer followed IMMEDIATELY by the "Ghost Training" fiasco is NOT going to attract more players. At best, it will have no effect, but it's near CERTAIN that it has in fact alienated a significant portion of the playerbase (hence a 171 page threadnaught in a matter of days).
So, overall it's just going to make things financially worse for CCP, and the economic climate is already very much against them.
We should know by March whether they're in trouble or not. If they're not, then the decisions they have made are vindicated. If they are, then they only have themselves to blame.
I just hope that if CCP go under, someone else comes in to rescue Eve. The game is great. CCP are not.
They are amazingly good and making paying customers feel unwanted....
bring your GTC prices into line with other mmo's at least...
throw us a bone...greedy ba**ards
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Joey Meow
MURAKAMI INDUSTRIES
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Posted - 2008.10.29 22:44:00 -
[5148]
Originally by: HuntedMaster They are amazingly good and making paying customers feel unwanted....
That hit the nail on the head. The way they are going, I want to see what happens 6 months from now, when the word spreads far and wide. I also want to see what happens when people come back to find their skills untrained. And I want to see what happens when even the idiot noobs who now saying "good job ccp" and "something for nothing" (yea, I know, we still have to reactivate to enjoy the result, so that argument is dumb), realize that ccp designed the game to have alts and second accounts.
ccp forced us to have second, third, fourth, etc accounts, and now they cut the support mechanism from under us. Hey CCP, when you dsign the game with such a fault as to force people into dual-boxing or more, you better keep the support there, otherwise things will not go so well.
Anyway, I want to see all the "supporters" of ccp's decision six months from now, or a year from now. They will either quit, or start moaning even more that the people who kept their 70/80 mill SP accounts active have now even greater advantage over them.
I will be here for 6 more months, thats for how long my account is paid up. I already let my two other accounts expire, and I have not renewed them. I will be gloating on the forums then.
I honestly believe that this might be the end of ccp, this is too much of a nerf. Unless ccp finds a way to mitigate the drawback of the skill system, and introduces something that alleviates the hell on earth that skill training is, this company will only continue sliding slowly into oblivion.
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Soma Khan
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Posted - 2008.10.29 23:16:00 -
[5149]
Originally by: IR Scoutar
I WANTS!!!11!!
Originally by: Soma Kahn ...trolling..
WoW is -> that way if you want to be a troll
So, when you troll a troll in a troll thread, does the troll trolling you have any credibility in complaining about being trolled?? ___
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Squirrrel
Gallente Squirrrel Industries
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Posted - 2008.10.29 23:34:00 -
[5150]
Originally by: Soma Khan
So, when you troll a troll in a troll thread, does the troll trolling you have any credibility in complaining about being trolled??
This post should earn you a job in CCP's PR department...
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Infomad
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Posted - 2008.10.30 03:28:00 -
[5151]
I haven't read the entire 100 pages of posts but... has anyone thought that the price of gtc has reached 500 to 600 million isk and is 60 days instead of 90 days might be having a impact on the increase in ghost training or even in the situation someone else stated about hundreds of people leaving the game.
Who wants to run multiple accounts when gtc cost so much now.
On a side note is it possible that ccp could charge $1 more per month for each additional character that you have in training (even if training is half speed on the additional character). Similar to what FFXI does.
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Gus Gallente
Dark Star Cartel Molotov Coalition
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Posted - 2008.10.30 04:13:00 -
[5152]
Edited by: Gus Gallente on 30/10/2008 04:14:26 Edited by: Gus Gallente on 30/10/2008 04:13:41 With the recent and pesky hardware troubles, shouldn't CCP be replacing these bad routers and slow servers with all the extra revenue they're generating by disabling ghost training?
*cues uproarious laughter.*
Seriously, if we're expected to pay 100% of the time, we should expect near 100% uptimes, and isn't it fair to expect unscheduled downtime to be totally nonexistent?
It's time for players to hold CCP to their own standards.
----- It's never just a game when you're winning. - George Carlin |
Rasik Argimater
|
Posted - 2008.10.30 04:58:00 -
[5153]
I just returned from a few days out of town. While I was away, a fifth one of my nine accounts expired. Two more expire on Nov 5, another on Nov 15, and the last on Nov 21. Since I had all nine accounts active before the unsubbed training nerf fiasco, it is fair to say that CCP is now losing $75/mo, $900/year, from me, and facing further increased losses. This is my sig? |
Miss Kingston
Avignon Associates Inc.
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Posted - 2008.10.30 05:42:00 -
[5154]
Originally by: Rasik Argimater I just returned from a few days out of town. While I was away, a fifth one of my nine accounts expired. Two more expire on Nov 5, another on Nov 15, and the last on Nov 21. Since I had all nine accounts active before the unsubbed training nerf fiasco, it is fair to say that CCP is now losing $75/mo, $900/year, from me, and facing further increased losses.
Fair play, my 3 accounts expire in 3 weeks, in May they made this the most expensive mmo with the increase in cost to gtc's and then taking away the ability to finish skills we had bought and started just because our sub ran out.
It's very simple, when you sign up for a service you accept certain pre-conditions, CCP changed those conditions which I can't accept anymore.
A two month gtc should cost less than $30, being able to finish skills when your sub runs out should be reinstated.
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Yeknom Nam
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Posted - 2008.10.30 05:52:00 -
[5155]
Well, I wonder what happened to my post. It was just there yesterday, hmm. Surely, if it was purposefully removed they would have told me why?
Oh well since my post is missing I thought I would just repost.
Here ya go.
Post Part1
Post Part2
I think some gentlemen that quoted me had the same problem with the disappearing post. Forum hicups I imagine.
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iXetus
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Posted - 2008.10.30 06:03:00 -
[5156]
Originally by: Yeknom Nam Well, I wonder what happened to my post. It was just there yesterday, hmm. Surely, if it was purposefully removed they would have told me why?
Oh well since my post is missing I thought I would just repost.
Here ya go.
Post Part1
Post Part2
I think some gentlemen that quoted me had the same problem with the disappearing post. Forum hicups I imagine.
Quoting this to see if CCP removes it or bans me from the forum.
P.S. CCp i have a screenshot of my post too, dare to remove it?
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iXetus
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Posted - 2008.10.30 06:11:00 -
[5157]
Btw, any1 remembers what newspaper had that article about devs cheating(t20) few years ago, maybe we could try to get their attention on this issue, perhaps we'll see another article about our beloved MMO in a serious newspaper? Too bad this time it won't be good for CCP :(.
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Richard Aiel
Caldari Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2008.10.30 06:16:00 -
[5158]
Originally by: iXetus Btw, any1 remembers what newspaper had that article about devs cheating(t20) few years ago, maybe we could try to get their attention on this issue, perhaps we'll see another article about our beloved MMO in a serious newspaper? Too bad this time it won't be good for CCP :(.
um there were a lot of sources that picked up on that. if you google T20 eve scandal youll come up with them in no time. As far as the two above posts, Ive been banned enough to know why that is nad. O well, they'll likely just cut the whole lower part of this page off ------------------------------------------------ CCP you are your own worst enemy. ------------------------------------------------ |
Yeknom Nam
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Posted - 2008.10.30 07:30:00 -
[5159]
"You are not permitted to publicize any private correspondence (including petitions) received from any of the aforementioned"
So you are saying customers have no right to express how they have been treated? Like an NDA for customer service. That sounds awesome!
*goes to read TOS and EULA*
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3rdNIPPLEofFURY
Minmatar PROGENITOR CORPORATION
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Posted - 2008.10.30 08:08:00 -
[5160]
I for one am not happy with the sudden fix of this so called 'Bug' but i did notice that there was still a 3 day grace on ghost training so CCP how about meeting us(your customers) in the middle and changing the grace time to 14 days.
It wont be BS5 but its something that would dampen this fire in this tinder box, you gladly give away 14 days for sign ups how about keeping your existing customers happy too.
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Ezoran DuBlaidd
Freedom From Fear Industries
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Posted - 2008.10.30 08:31:00 -
[5161]
Originally by: Rasik Argimater I just returned from a few days out of town. While I was away, a fifth one of my nine accounts expired. Two more expire on Nov 5, another on Nov 15, and the last on Nov 21. Since I had all nine accounts active before the unsubbed training nerf fiasco, it is fair to say that CCP is now losing $75/mo, $900/year, from me, and facing further increased losses.
no way man, no one has more than two accounts that plays this game, and certainly no one EVER lets a game expire to go try a new game (like warhammer)... the only time (other than brand new characters using power of 2 which CAN'T be used on an existing account, so it's worthless unless you pay $20 to transfer an existing character to that account) someone has a second account is OBVIOUSLY to grow characters to sell...
at least, that's the thinking, right?
but... ccp devs play this game.
seriously, come up with something the PLAYERS will believe.
in a few months, when you're wondering why the game isn't growing... remember the gtcs and this...
and remember that a lot of us have families and jobs, and we're not teens. we don't have to demand an apology. the apologies (plural as in multiple wrongs and multiple people) will PREceed people reactivating accounts.
good day. |
Shade Nightfall
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Posted - 2008.10.30 08:43:00 -
[5162]
Your petition has been submitted, the petition tracking id is 1269878. Your petition has been submitted, the petition tracking id is 1269881.
Couple more accounts to permanently delete, which I'm guessing is the aim of stopping the 'unintended' feature that was advertised as a feature. That and some frankly pathetic handling of petitions recently due to lag issues, and I'm left wondering - are they deliberately trying to drive people away? I'd have to guess so.
Pre-emptive fanboy strike - I don't care if you're so enarmoured of CCP that you'll post a 'stop whining' post, I won't read it. In fact I actually despise anyway so tragic as to become a fanboy. And stuffz, no, can't have it.
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h zebra
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Posted - 2008.10.30 08:48:00 -
[5163]
Originally by: Ezoran DuBlaidd
Originally by: Rasik Argimater I just returned from a few days out of town. While I was away, a fifth one of my nine accounts expired. Two more expire on Nov 5, another on Nov 15, and the last on Nov 21. Since I had all nine accounts active before the unsubbed training nerf fiasco, it is fair to say that CCP is now losing $75/mo, $900/year, from me, and facing further increased losses.
no way man, no one has more than two accounts that plays this game
Lots of people i know have more accounts than 2 accounts a few had as many as me. personally i had 6. down to 5 now. will be 2 very shortly, mine and my girlfriends mains. screw trying to do everything in game any more. we will pvp till we run out of isk and then prob the last 2 will expire too.
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Tivookz
Caldari IMPERIAL SENATE Pure.
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Posted - 2008.10.30 08:49:00 -
[5164]
Edited by: Tivookz on 30/10/2008 08:51:17 Keep digging your own grave CCP.
Even if you keep giving your wife ( us ) new shiny presents ( ambulation, graphics etc etc ) she will still remember how you cheated on her.
We will not forget or forgive you for this unless you make it right.
Is it really worth losing several hundred if not thousands of customers?
Don't you devs learn anything from the past? Take a look at SWG and how Sony destroyed that game by covering their ears going LALALALLALAA each time the community told em what they wanted the game to be like.
Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.
T20 was once.
I won't be fooled twice.
Tiv __________________________________________________
Hating Cash Craving Productions since oct 15th 2008 |
Seth Vorlar
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Posted - 2008.10.30 09:20:00 -
[5165]
BUMP
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Shade Nightfall
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Posted - 2008.10.30 09:21:00 -
[5166]
Accountants wielding too much power I put it down too - greedy little bean-counters did a few queries on the (crud, marketing-sold database) SQL Server database, and found that they'd increase revenue by X% with this move. What they'd lose however I guess they neglected to think about I'd have to guess.
Very scummy, cheap, and pathetic move. In thinking about the skill system, I'm thinking it'd be a table. One, a record inserted when a skill starts training with the character's PK, and perhaps records current implant modifiers or SP per hour and so on (as the system borks now if you try to change, hence I think its pretty basic/static in implementation). A single thread, or perhaps process, polls the database and fires alerts to each character's notification queue when one finishes, hence providing a UI message also and subsequent modifiers. Or roughly along those lines.
The above, is simply trivial, in terms of load and resources, to implement, so the argument (that was raised, perhaps rescinded?) is specious, at best. Snowflakes, indeed.
Before trying new tricks like this, why not concentrate on fixing age old bugs? Why? Because the code base is so obscene that you cannot I'm guessing.
I'd agree it was a great idea for a game, and the implementation had prospects. In the meantime since that though, its degenerated into a farce. Content updates are pathetic, and minimal. All missions wear thin after a week or two. All exploration sites wear thin after a week or two. It seems about all the devs can do at this stage is tweak minor things, and run in fear of touching anything major in the engine (as is natural for an abortive codebase).
Being a project or tech lead, and faced with this mess, I'd say we just can it, move on, version 2. This version has developed code rot.
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Elias Stroganov
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Posted - 2008.10.30 09:30:00 -
[5167]
Have you fired t0rfi yet ???
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Shade Nightfall
|
Posted - 2008.10.30 09:52:00 -
[5168]
Originally by: Tivookz
Originally by: oilio
Maybe CCP are right - maybe players have short memories and they can get away with anything. If they're wrong, they're finished.
It's a classic mistake to believe that players forget things.
We don't forget, we just get exhausted talking about it but when the time comes to decide wether to stay or try a new game, the decision will be easier to make when you think back on issues like this one where over 5000 posts have been made without a single comment from CCCP.
Tiv
Well said. If they feel so completely aloof to not respond to the people paying their salaries, then its strange. Very strange. Bottom line can bottom out very quickly, and I'm hoping CCP's does at this stage.
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Shade Nightfall
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Posted - 2008.10.30 09:59:00 -
[5169]
http://eve.coldfront.net/status/
If you look at the peaks, we're seeing, as I read it, a 7k drop in accounts since last month. And a 10k drop since last year.
None of these figures add up to Eve being successful, and they indicate the latest move has been atrocious in terms of subs (fire the guy, for gods sakes).
If those stats are CCP controlled, then the real figure might well be a lot worse.
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Shade Nightfall
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Posted - 2008.10.30 11:21:00 -
[5170]
Confirms it. All the good guys got relegated to high-paying dev jobs (some of em deserve it). All the crud just bubbled to the top (management 101). Dammit, it happened on my watch too.
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Kain D'Worker
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Posted - 2008.10.30 11:33:00 -
[5171]
I've usually had 5 to 11 accounts active over the last 5,5 years. For the last year 11 accounts. I've been using this training thingy a lot over the last 6 months but not before that time. This is gonna hit me hard and will force me to close down at least 6 accounts. This will ofcorse force me also to think "will I keep playing the game" and to tell you (ccp) the truth I'm thinking more and more about just quiting the game.
This so called error was the one thing keeping me going in this game (over the last months that is). I found this to ba a awsome tool for those who wanted a short brake from the game.
I strongly urge you to reconsider your so called fix for this error and just let it be, this is acually a good error. |
Tasty Bit
Gallente UNITED STAR SYNDICATE
|
Posted - 2008.10.30 11:38:00 -
[5172]
Originally by: Kain D'Worker I've usually had 5 to 11 accounts active over the last 5,5 years. For the last year 11 accounts. I've been using this training thingy a lot over the last 6 months but not before that time. This is gonna hit me hard and will force me to close down at least 6 accounts. This will ofcorse force me also to think "will I keep playing the game" and to tell you (ccp) the truth I'm thinking more and more about just quiting the game.
This so called error was the one thing keeping me going in this game (over the last months that is). I found this to ba a awsome tool for those who wanted a short brake from the game.
I strongly urge you to reconsider your so called fix for this error and just let it be, this is acually a good error.
Maybe they'll wait for a couple of months, so everyone that's staying can pay the $20 to move chars onto other accounts, then reactivate the feature, so everyone can pay another $20 to move chars back onto their original account.
Nice little earner that would be.
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Richard Aiel
Caldari Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2008.10.30 11:49:00 -
[5173]
Edited by: Richard Aiel on 30/10/2008 11:54:22 Edited by: Richard Aiel on 30/10/2008 11:49:29
Originally by: h zebra
Originally by: Ezoran DuBlaidd
Originally by: Rasik Argimater I just returned from a few days out of town. While I was away, a fifth one of my nine accounts expired. Two more expire on Nov 5, another on Nov 15, and the last on Nov 21. Since I had all nine accounts active before the unsubbed training nerf fiasco, it is fair to say that CCP is now losing $75/mo, $900/year, from me, and facing further increased losses.
no way man, no one has more than two accounts that plays this game
Lots of people i know have more accounts than 2 accounts a few had as many as me. personally i had 6. down to 5 now. will be 2 very shortly, mine and my girlfriends mains. screw trying to do everything in game any more. we will pvp till we run out of isk and then prob the last 2 will expire too.
way to miss the sarcasm! whoo! you deserve some kind of award for that.
Originally by: Elias Stroganov Have you fired t0rfi yet ???
CAREFUL dude that smacked the last guy that said that with the banhammer cause calling for that is a personal attack. ------------------------------------------------ CCP you are your own worst enemy. ------------------------------------------------ |
Richard Aiel
Caldari Caldari Provisions
|
Posted - 2008.10.30 11:50:00 -
[5174]
Originally by: Richard Aiel
Isnt it interesting that just about a month prior to WoW's latest expansion coming out, that CCP decides to go ahead and do something that they HAVE TO KNOW is going to **** off a significant number of their player base.
They do something that is going to cause angry people to leave the game right when they SHOULD logically be doing the EXACT opposite.
Then, after they anger their players, they compound the blunder by lying to us about it on several occasions, and refuse to talk about it at all.
CMON
I mean REALLY now...
Are we to believe that the ppl at CCP are THAT stupid? That NOONE caught on to that this was a bad move while they were doing it? NOONE at the company thought this was a bad move with another MMO releasing a major expansion just a month down the line? They are saying now they learned their lesson... is they a way of saying they didnt know better until now?
I think they knew exactly what they were doing. There is no such thing as bad publicity.
The influx of new players has to outnumber the old players leaving. This is the only reason I can really think of that CCP hasnt made ANY move to placate their players.
Once WotLK drops, all those disenfranchised WoW players that have started to come here will go back there (even if it is for a little while) and CCP will start to see their numbers really decline.
Maybe this was the plan all along.
To reduce lag and stress on their precious servers, they do something that will drive people away from the game just as another game is drawing them in.
Or maybe CCP always intended this to be a "niche" game and it was just becoming TOO successful, TOO mainstream for them, and they feel the need to prune it back some.
More likely, they are just banking on the idea that the old players will leave, to be replaced by new players who have never heard of unsubbed training, and eventually, the whole thing will be forgotten entirely. This last idea goes along nicely with why this thread has been unstickied.
I am honestly waiting for the mod to come along and do the "This thread has run its course. Now its just spam. Click"
Quoting myself ftw cause ppl are just starting to agree with me lol ------------------------------------------------ CCP you are your own worst enemy. ------------------------------------------------ |
h zebra
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Posted - 2008.10.30 11:58:00 -
[5175]
Originally by: Richard Aiel Edited by: Richard Aiel on 30/10/2008 11:54:22 Edited by: Richard Aiel on 30/10/2008 11:49:29
Originally by: h zebra
Originally by: Ezoran DuBlaidd
Originally by: Rasik Argimater I just returned from a few days out of town. While I was away, a fifth one of my nine accounts expired. Two more expire on Nov 5, another on Nov 15, and the last on Nov 21. Since I had all nine accounts active before the unsubbed training nerf fiasco, it is fair to say that CCP is now losing $75/mo, $900/year, from me, and facing further increased losses.
no way man, no one has more than two accounts that plays this game
Lots of people i know have more accounts than 2 accounts a few had as many as me. personally i had 6. down to 5 now. will be 2 very shortly, mine and my girlfriends mains. screw trying to do everything in game any more. we will pvp till we run out of isk and then prob the last 2 will expire too.
way to miss the sarcasm! whoo! you deserve some kind of award for that. quote]
LOL i didnt get much past teh no way can he 2 accounts...such is my anger with ccp and there half arsed desisions of late
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Fawziyyah
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Posted - 2008.10.30 12:12:00 -
[5176]
Now it's a great time for CCP anounce a new promotion...
-- Power of Three --
With two accounts you get one for free
Don't forget tomorrows STRIKE DAY
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Trajek Zor
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Posted - 2008.10.30 12:14:00 -
[5177]
Newbie here.
I started playing only three weeks ago, after reading a favorable review of EVE in PC Gamer. This is my first MMO experience and I have had my paid account for only one week. After browsing through these forums during yet another server crash, I'm seeing a lot of anger directed at CCP for perceived failures in development and delivery over the lifespan of the game. Can someone give me a concise summary of the problems?
Why is the cancelation of 'ghost training' such a big issue? I think that if a previously paying customer allows their account to lapse they should not be allowed to advance their character training in the background until they are ready to rejoin as a paying customer. Allowing that sort of capability is not really fair to people that are paying, and who are logging on several times a day to advance their character's abilities. I realize that upper level training requires many days to advance, but why should someone be allowed to become an EVE uber-player by training on an account that isn't paid up?
As for multiple accounts (some have 11!?), why would anyone want to manage that many accounts? Isn't the goal of the MMO experience to have one online identity in a game that you nurture and grow and take pride in? Having 11 or more accounts seems to me to water down that experience.
I've completed probably a couple of hundred agent missions in the last three weeks. My family has pretty much released me to the game's clutches over that time, but they know how much I love gaming. I've seen the occasional player character floating around in space or transiting to a new waypoint. So where does all the multiplayer action happen? Where is the massive in-game interaction that I expected from EVE? If posting on these forums is the epitome of EVE's appeal, why bother playing for more than a few months anyway?
The in-game chat window is tedious at best. I've gotten no benefit from following the interactions that go on there, so it remains iconified on my HUD.
Why should I join (or form) corporations of one or two people?
Is there a storyline that lasts more than four or five missions?
I guess my feeling right now is that I will play EVE until I get burnt out, enjoying the pretty good graphics, the sense of achievement as I gain the ability to buy better ships and gain the attention of higher NPC agents, and amass more money than I can reasonably spend. When I no longer get any satisfaction from the game, I'll close my one account, and leave with the satisfaction of having experienced what I consider to be a fairly unique offering in the MMO world that offered me many hours of gaming pleasure.
Beyond that, I just don't see why some have an almost obsessive ideology in directing what happens with CCP or within EVE. It's a game; it's not real life folks. Geesh!
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Trajek Zor
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Posted - 2008.10.30 12:22:00 -
[5178]
The game is now back up, so I'll look for comments later. Thanks!
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Richard Aiel
Caldari Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2008.10.30 12:58:00 -
[5179]
Originally by: Trajek Zor Newbie here.
nuff said. Im sure there are ppl here that might actually list the grievances CCP has committed against their players but the main one I can remember (even though they are old): T20. If yer curious, Google the following: T20 scandal http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/editorials/op-ed/847-Jumpgate-EVEs-Devs-and-the-Friends-They-Keep
------------------------------------------------ CCP you are your own worst enemy. ------------------------------------------------ |
iXetus
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Posted - 2008.10.30 13:00:00 -
[5180]
Originally by: Trajek Zor Newbie here...
...stuff
Well, after playing some more u'll answer urself all these questions. But i'll try to write down some hints: 1. EVE is about pvp, running missions is good for making money, but this game really shines in pvp. 2. To be able to effectivelly fly a battleship you need about 1 year of training 3. I (and many others) want to fly several if not all classes bs and i can't wait 4 years to do that, so i have 4 accounts all 4 training 4 diferent eve races, this way i can fly all races bs in 1 year. 4. CCP loves to nerf things so much that they become unplayable, that's why when they nerf gallente, i let my galente account on ghost training and play my other race account. 5. While pvp'ing you still need to make money, so ppl have 1 or even more accounts for making money that's trading alts, industrila alts, r&d alts, even more some enjoy these aspets of the game too, while still enjoing pvp, so here you are-11 accounts easily :).
Ofc no1 is able to constantly play more than 3 accounts(even 3 is possible for ppl with 5 or more hours/day), the majority, including me, have work, wife, kids, rl friends, so they can't play more than 2 accounts, so they let other accounts on ghost training, cycling through them. Now this is made impossible, so ppl are angry.
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Tasty Bit
Gallente UNITED STAR SYNDICATE
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Posted - 2008.10.30 13:09:00 -
[5181]
Originally by: Fawziyyah Now it's a great time for CCP anounce a new promotion...
-- Power of Three --
With two accounts you get one for free
Don't forget tomorrows STRIKE DAY
Or how about "Power of 3 - 2 for the price of 3." That's more in keeping with the M.O. here.
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Trajek Zor
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Posted - 2008.10.30 13:11:00 -
[5182]
Originally by: iXetus
Originally by: Trajek Zor Newbie here...
...stuff
Well, after playing some more u'll answer urself all these questions. But i'll try to write down some hints: 1. EVE is about pvp, running missions is good for making money, but this game really shines in pvp. 2. To be able to effectivelly fly a battleship you need about 1 year of training 3. I (and many others) want to fly several if not all classes bs and i can't wait 4 years to do that, so i have 4 accounts all 4 training 4 diferent eve races, this way i can fly all races bs in 1 year. 4. CCP loves to nerf things so much that they become unplayable, that's why when they nerf gallente, i let my galente account on ghost training and play my other race account. 5. While pvp'ing you still need to make money, so ppl have 1 or even more accounts for making money that's trading alts, industrila alts, r&d alts, even more some enjoy these aspets of the game too, while still enjoing pvp, so here you are-11 accounts easily :).
Ofc no1 is able to constantly play more than 3 accounts(even 3 is possible for ppl with 5 or more hours/day), the majority, including me, have work, wife, kids, rl friends, so they can't play more than 2 accounts, so they let other accounts on ghost training, cycling through them. Now this is made impossible, so ppl are angry.
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Trajek Zor
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Posted - 2008.10.30 13:13:00 -
[5183]
It is a game...
It is a game...
Does no one but me understand that simple element?
If EVE is what you focus on, where you place all your anger and hatred at the 'system' that we all live within, if EVE is your only outlet....then I pity you.
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iXetus
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Posted - 2008.10.30 13:21:00 -
[5184]
Originally by: Trajek Zor
It is a game...
Yep it is, every1 knows it(with few exceptions), but it's the best game out there and ppl want to play it, they don't want to play WOW or other ****ty MMO, they want EVE and CCP,atm, makes everything for ppl to go play the ****ty MMO's instead of EVE and this is rly a pity.
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Vix633
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Posted - 2008.10.30 13:29:00 -
[5185]
and remember that a lot of us have families and jobs, and we're not teens.
That! Exactly that. CCP, you arent screwing with little 12 year old boys that like internet spaceships. You are screwing with hard working men and women who have jobs and families and once in a while would like to enjoy a few hours of spending some time in space with a few fun people from overseas and whatnot. Your service has been good to me, each petition answered courteously and in a timely fashion. You have soiled your good name guys. I had a ton of respect for you for creating such a great game.
My alt will expire soon, as will my rl friend`s alt. There will not be reactivation.
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Ranger 1
Amarr Shiva Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2008.10.30 14:46:00 -
[5186]
Edited by: Ranger 1 on 30/10/2008 14:55:18
Originally by: Trajek Zor Newbie here.
Trajek, you are fairly insightful for a newcomer to EVE... but don't expect much sympathy in this particular thread. It's pretty much chock full of people that expect something for nothing. To be fair, many posting saw or heard about the mention of "ghost" training that was incorrectly referenced in the game manual. They refuse to acknowledge CCP's repeated statements that they did not intentionally design the training aspect of the game to allow "ghost training" because it is to their advantage not to.
I personally don't blame them. No one likes to give up an advantage they "discovered" in the game mechanics which most players were unaware of. Frankly, most players in EVE that have multiple accounts actually pay for and actively use those accounts (for a number of very good reasons), and could care less about the "ghost training" controversy that this thread tries to portray as a huge issue. Honestly, there are a lot of people irritated at our dispossessed ghost trainers and their ranting because it never occurred to them that they should expect to be allowed to train up characters on inactive accounts. It smacks of dishonesty, but is forgivable in most cases because of that silly reference someone slipped into the manual. That doesn't change the fact that people still wailing about the correction of this flaw are simply refusing to admit that they are unwilling to give up an advantage that have over the simpler and more honest folk that believe you should get what you pay for. No more, no less.
On a more important note, you haven't really begun to experience the main area's in game play that EVE has to offer until you find a group of people that you like and join their corp or alliance. Most of the more challenging and entertaining elements of EVE are designed for group participation. All that you have currently experienced is the bare bones of EVE game play, the basic mechanics. Sort of like learning to ride a tricycle and wondering why people become Harley enthusiasts. No offense intended.
Try not to get to burn out stage until you've had a chance to experience at least some of the following: Group mining and industrial operations, a friendly and cheerful Team Speak environment with trusted corp members, small gang and fleet level PVP, exploration, invention, blockade running, belt piracy or anti-piracy operations, joint operations with other corps or alliances, war or at least faction warfare, cosmos missions, participating in an in-game "event", participating in or at least watching on EVE TV an alliance tournament, battle field smack talk, gate camping (optional), defending or attacking a POS, helping put your own organizations outpost permanently in EVE space (or taking one away from someone else), receiving the thanks in local of a stranger you have helped or saved, getting the praise of your friends for pulling their collective fat out of the fire, getting burned out of the sky and smiling ruefully afterward, avenging that loss and savoring the satisfaction that brings, or any one of a hundred other different but equally memorable activities within this most excellent game.
The water runs very deep here, and you've only had a chance to skim the surface so far.
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flammkuchen
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Posted - 2008.10.30 15:23:00 -
[5187]
Originally by: Ranger 1 space
Originally by: Trajek Zor Newbie here.
stuff .. It's pretty much chock full of people that expect something for nothing. ... stuff
Well there are people out there who payed money for a explained and declared feature that was cut off within days. I think you meant, this is pretty full of people that exepect something for something and NOT nothing for something. Something a Newbie would much better understand, but it looks like the spin spinned you alredy.
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iXetus
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Posted - 2008.10.30 15:34:00 -
[5188]
Originally by: Ranger 1
wall of text
You really have no idea what you're talking about, don't you? This was a feature, designed by CCP, not a mistake, every1 here is blaming them for lieing and now you come here and tell us that we didn't unterstand it? Doesn't the fact that they stated already few reasons for doing this and then suddenly changed their mind look strange to you?
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Mumemafu Praetoriam
Minmatar Comando Vermelho
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Posted - 2008.10.30 15:42:00 -
[5189]
Well, I've been expended my time to read this tread since the first day, Ive did 2 posts, nothing great about how to solve "that bug". CCP did a "fiasco" ( oh yeah, it's a Brazilian word too ). Ive 5 acounts, 4 active until dezember, 1 expired 6 mounths ago, I have not put that inactive one back 'cause" is too expenssive pay for 5 acounts, and the recents "removed from the game" the 90GTC and now that last hit ( and it hit wrecking my pocket ) make really cry. Ive nerver had playing any other MMO, but im a oldguyGamer, but I fell in love by eve since I got it from a promotional mail from any game site ( i cant remeber wich was). But o now the dream is over, I havent see any good reason to stay playing. CCP is puttin aside one of the best games in the f**** world. I ll play untill my 4 acount expire, I thing after it, I will trash and terminate all chars, and close my acount, EVE will be just a good memori, Was great see the game change from 700 guys to 40k players, but If the Company have no respect from thiers costumers, I thing there is no reason to stay playing, why? 'cause it's only a game, I cant expend all my time to read post to see a lot of "old friends" quitting this game. So, the darktime is near. in my country the dollar up to 2,35 $ Reais, it very hard to pay it for a country w the base worker payment is under 100USD. im .
well, so sory about my rudimentary english. lets back to play NWN ;-).
cheers, if you're not minmatar and dont live in a 3¦ world country :P
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Zothike
Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2008.10.30 16:18:00 -
[5190]
i bet it have been asked in one of the 172 pages but i think that a good move from CCP to compensate a little the frustration of thoses who have several account, would be to allow more than 3 caracters on 1 account,this way ppl could concentrate chars
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Lorac Caladon
Caldari The Cowboy Junkies
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Posted - 2008.10.30 16:26:00 -
[5191]
Edited by: Lorac Caladon on 30/10/2008 16:28:13
Originally by: Ranger 1 Edited by: Ranger 1 on 30/10/2008 14:56:02
Originally by: Trajek Zor Newbie here.
Trajek, you are fairly insightful for a newcomer to EVE... but don't expect much sympathy in this particular thread. It's pretty much chock full of people that expect something for nothing. To be fair, many posting saw or heard about the mention of "ghost" training that was incorrectly referenced in the game manual. They refuse to acknowledge CCP's repeated statements that they did not intentionally design the training aspect of the game to allow "ghost training" because it is to their advantage not to.
I personally don't blame them. No one likes to give up an advantage they "discovered" in the game mechanics which most players were unaware of. Frankly, most players in EVE that have multiple accounts actually pay for and actively use those accounts (for a number of very good reasons), and could care less about the "ghost training" controversy that this thread tries to portray as a huge issue. Honestly, there are a lot of people irritated at our dispossessed ghost trainers and their ranting because it never occurred to them that they should expect to be allowed to train up characters on inactive accounts. It smacks of dishonesty, but is forgivable in most cases because of that silly reference someone slipped into the manual. That doesn't change the fact that people still wailing about the correction of this flaw are simply refusing to admit that they are unwilling to give up an advantage that have over the simpler and more honest folk that believe you should get what you pay for. No more, no less.
Wow. I really donÆt know how to respond to your opinion about this other than to draw an analogy. LetÆs say that this evening you read on the Eve-Online forum that a long overdue fix to a bug is going to be implemented. Curious, you read on to discover that ôcross trainingö has been ôfixedö. You will no longer be able to train skills that are not native to your race. In other words, you roll Caldari, you train Caldari. Period. Not Gallente or Minnie. Just Caldari.
You ôboughtö into the game knowing that the ability to cross train was a feature, but some dev makes a blog saying ôNope. It was always a mistake. We knew it was giving an unfair advantage to the people that were doing it (over the past 5 years) but we just decided yesterday that we donÆt want you to be able to do it ANYMORE.ö. So, now that feature is suddenly a bug because a dev at CCP says so. You, the paying customer can do what?
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Farouq Rizer
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Posted - 2008.10.30 16:56:00 -
[5192]
This thread is 100% proof of how CCP doesnt care of what their customer base has to say. Didnt they say they would overturn the decesion if they got a big enough reply? Well I guess the largest thread in EvE is not a big enough response for them.
CCP is actually worst then SOE. I never saw SOE flat-out lie to their whole customer base in a public statement.
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Ranger 1
Amarr Shiva Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2008.10.30 16:57:00 -
[5193]
Edited by: Ranger 1 on 30/10/2008 17:00:35
Quote: So, now that feature is suddenly a bug because a dev at CCP says so.
Fortunately for me, I can read more than one line in the manual that is contrary to the numerous posts from DEVs over the years stating that this really wasn't an intended feature of skill training in EVE.
You'll have to excuse me, and the majority of EVE, for using common sense and taking updated information over old information. Especially when that updated information makes perfect sense.
If you can justify having multiple highly skilled characters for a fraction of the price that everyone else (you know, the ones that expect to actually pay the fee for being able to do game related things like training characters)has paid over the same amount of time, then good for you. While I have no animosity towards you, I really can't generate much sympathy for the angst you are experiencing. Its the price you pay for stubbornly attempting to justify what you were doing.
It's hardly surprising that all of the new players (and most everyone else that's been around for awhile) are somewhat amused by your distress and wonder why you are having trouble dealing with CCP finally fixing a borked mechanic. Especially when it is a matter that allows you to have characters equal in skill to their own, for a fraction of the price. If you can't understand that in a internet spaceship game, then good luck to you in the real world.
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Corwain
Gallente Aliastra
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Posted - 2008.10.30 17:13:00 -
[5194]
Originally by: Ranger 1 I almost forgot. For those spewing on about "thousands of accounts closed due to this change", the question was brought up in Zulu's thread. Closed accounts have numbered in the hundreds. Since the majority of those were already semi-active at best, your 170ish thread doesn't appear to be reflecting the true level of outrage thread has been claiming would be evident.
Seems the CCP fanboys go quite well with CCP as they seem to have about the same intellect as the guy at CCP that made this decision.
As has been pointed out MULTIPLE times in this thread it will take a month or two for this to show its affect as it takes time for accounts to be consolidated. IE the only ones that are showing now are the guys that quit EVE altogether. There will actually be an initial SURGE of subscriptions as accounts are subscribed so the characters can be transferred OFF the account, then the accounts the characters used to be on are PERMANATLY deactivated. -- Distortion| Distortion 2 Preview |
Ranger 1
Amarr Shiva Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2008.10.30 17:30:00 -
[5195]
Originally by: Corwain
Originally by: Ranger 1 I almost forgot. For those spewing on about "thousands of accounts closed due to this change", the question was brought up in Zulu's thread. Closed accounts have numbered in the hundreds. Since the majority of those were already semi-active at best, your 170ish thread doesn't appear to be reflecting the true level of outrage thread has been claiming would be evident.
Seems the CCP fanboys go quite well with CCP as they seem to have about the same intellect as the guy at CCP that made this decision.
As has been pointed out MULTIPLE times in this thread it will take a month or two for this to show its affect as it takes time for accounts to be consolidated. IE the only ones that are showing now are the guys that quit EVE altogether. There will actually be an initial SURGE of subscriptions as accounts are subscribed so the characters can be transferred OFF the account, then the accounts the characters used to be on are PERMANATLY deactivated.
I fully realize that, although your attempt to insult me on a personal level is certainly entertaining. Indirectly, that is somewhat my point. It's been a couple of weeks now, close to half (if not more, since people ghost training aren't going to pay for more than the minimum time possible to slip in and change training) of the accounts "affected" by this have had the opportunity to quit. Considering the number of active accounts in EVE only a tiny fraction have quit so far. Most seem to prefer making a mountain out of this mole hill on the forums rather than actually quit the game. So either put up, or shut up. Either way most won't notice your absence, the game will continue to prosper, and you'll be forgotten in short order. In fact, many folks will benefit if you put some of those cheaply trained characters up for sale.
See, there is always a silver lining. Good luck in your future endeavors.
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hopper2j2
Caldari Kazoo RnD Enterprises
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Posted - 2008.10.30 17:30:00 -
[5196]
Originally by: Ranger 1 Edited by: Ranger 1 on 30/10/2008 17:06:48
Fortunately for me, I can read more than one line in the manual that is contrary to the numerous posts from DEVs over the years stating that this really wasn't an intended feature of skill training in EVE.
You'll have to excuse me, and the majority of EVE, for using common sense and taking updated information over old information. Especially when that updated information makes perfect sense.
If you can justify having multiple highly skilled characters for a fraction of the price that everyone else (you know, the ones that expect to actually pay the fee for being able to do game related things like training characters)has paid over the same amount of time, then good for you. While I have no animosity towards you, I really can't generate much sympathy for the angst you are experiencing. Its the price you pay for stubbornly attempting to justify what you were doing.
It's hardly surprising that all of the new players (and most everyone else that's been around for awhile) are somewhat amused by your distress and wonder why you are having trouble dealing with CCP finally fixing a borked mechanic. Especially when it is a matter that allows you to have characters equal in skill to their own, for a fraction of the price. If you can't understand that in a internet spaceship game, then good luck to you in the real world.
Edit: I almost forgot. For those spewing on about "thousands of accounts closed due to this change", the question was brought up in Zulu's thread. Closed accounts have numbered in the hundreds. Since the majority of those were already semi-active at best, your 170ish thread doesn't appear to be reflecting the true level of outrage thread has been claiming would be evident. It really is time to move on to more important matters, or if you feel that strongly quit running your mouth and quit already. This is old news and a dead horse.
Read post 145 Read Post 4 Read post 3
So?
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Kalmanaka
Caldari The Graduates Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2008.10.30 17:40:00 -
[5197]
Holy crap. I almost forgot about this thread. People are STILL crying about it? lol fuggin hilarious
Estimate != Reality What you want != What you get You whine != Someone cares Learn to deal with it. -Abrazzar |
Chani Fedaykin
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Posted - 2008.10.30 17:44:00 -
[5198]
Originally by: Ranger 1
Originally by: Trajek Zor Newbie here.
stuff
its not about getting symphaty in this thread or not. he asked a question, he wants an answer ... not sympathy.
the reason why most players that have multiple accounts actually permanently pay for them all, is because the account is (for the majority) only usefull if you are able to actually log in.
besides this thread is not (only) about ppl that are angry because of the point of removing 'ghost' training (which besides is an absolutely new term that was created by ccp when they removed the FEATURE).
the main point is that ccp made up a load of stuff and gave (obviously) irrelevant reasons why they decided to fix the 'bug' ... which was until then known as feature. taking that its a 'little' bit far fetched that "most players were unaware of" it. ccp (at least tried to) hide their real reasons for the change and and this is what makes me think about totally quitting eve. IF they would have been honest ... with an announcment a proper time in advance, with proper and valid reasoning and with a proper implementation (see later about other 'ghost' features) ... i would have still thought that its the wrong decision (because unpaid training was a great marketing tool to keep players stuck to eve), i would have adjusted my accounts (because it becomes more expensive) - but i would have had no hard feelings towards ccp ... its their decision.
the next irritation happens if you think about other 'ghost' features (ups, sorry, bugs ofc) - which are not touched by ccp ... perhaps because they would require more coding / effort. r&d, invention, orders, contracts, ceo, production, research, ...
about outdated information (related to the guide and dev comments) - could you please point me to any relevant post (before the fiasco) that stated this feature was an unintended bug? - why the heck would they not fix the bug asap if on another server (china?) it was fixed some time ago? - give me any valid reason why a bugfix like this would take so long to accomplish? - even if you could answer all those previous questions with valid points, its still not acceptable that this was announced in a little thread, which was locked and in a hurry a simple devblog with unbelieveable reasons was put up.
towards the amount of accounts unsubscribed ... you should follow your own words and dont use outdated information, because the last response of zulu(whatever) was that they wont disclose any information on this ... obviously the amount is too high, that they want to make it public :P
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Ranger 1
Amarr Shiva Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2008.10.30 17:50:00 -
[5199]
In very, very old threads he was describing how things were defacto working at that time. I see no promises made that you were going to be able to continue getting away with it forever, nor anything refuting statements made that while you could do this it was not really what was intended when the training mechanic was designed.
If you really, really want to find all of the mentions in dev blogs about how training was intended to work you are on your own. It's a pointless waste of time tbh. CCP has always reserved the right to change, tweak, modify, or correct any portion of the game, this would include the training mechanic.
If they were to at some future point implement skill training ques, I somehow don't think I'll see people lining up protesting the change in game mechanics. Your point is moot.
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Tivookz
Caldari IMPERIAL SENATE Pure.
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Posted - 2008.10.30 17:56:00 -
[5200]
I like how CCP and some fanboys tend to believe ghost training is something that was given for FREE which is by now a classic misconseption.
You paid for your account and your subscription so therefore you paid for the skill to start training.
You also need to pay for the account again to utilize the skill you chose to train.
Nothing is given for free.
A matter of fact, stopping your skill from training is basically stealing money from you since the actions you made while the account was active become invalid.
What would WoW look like if you took a break and when you came back you were lvl 69 instead of 70 because the monster you killed suddenly became unkilled because you don't pay for the service anymore.
EVE is not different, only here you select what skill to train and it then trains it over a period of time instead.
Tiv __________________________________________________
Hating Cash Craving Productions since oct 15th 2008 |
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Chani Fedaykin
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Posted - 2008.10.30 18:01:00 -
[5201]
Edited by: Chani Fedaykin on 30/10/2008 18:02:55
Originally by: Ranger 1 stuff
it was you that said, that ccp said it is a bug - which obviously cant be, because they decided to not fix it ... perfectly beeing able to do so, in full knowledge that it exists.
and once again - perhaps you will finally get the point - most people here dont complain about the change in game mechanic, which - as you stated - is possible and acceptable (even if you happen to not agree with it or like it). its about the way ccp announced and reasoned it - trying to actually fool their customers with made up reasons ... and they should know themselves that eve has an intelligent playerbase (at least compared to other mmo's).
however i would really like to know, if you personally think that - ghost training affects the hardware - ghost training (but not other unpaid features) unbalances eve - this was actually a bug (then please explain, why it was not fixed asap at the time it was obviously possible) - it was not the reason for many players to resubscribe to eve, after they unsubscribed for whatever reason - it was not the reason for many players to create additional accounts they would not have created otherwise (thus effectivly increasing the revenue that ccp got, even if those players ghost trained)
Originally by: Ranger 1 For this little gem, and the rest of the unsubstantiated drivel in that post, I plan on running a sale on tinfoil hats and "How to Interpret Dreams and Dev Blogs to Fit Your Own Version of Reality" handbooks. Be sure to buy a few before you quit.
you should rather start to at least try to think over those questions (i am not even asking you to answer them here) before trying to be a funny guy |
Ranger 1
Amarr Shiva Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2008.10.30 18:03:00 -
[5202]
So.... how many levels did you go up while not paying for your WOW account?
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Hul'ka
Minmatar MicroFunks
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Posted - 2008.10.30 18:08:00 -
[5203]
Originally by: Ranger 1 So.... how many levels did you go up while not paying for your WOW account?
Actually there is a reward for players that took a brake and came back in WOW. It has something to do with ½rested+ state, when you get double the SP from killing monsters then you usually do. So, yea, there is something similar to ghost training in WOW, only implemented in a different way.. :P --------- phew phew
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Ranger 1
Amarr Shiva Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2008.10.30 18:11:00 -
[5204]
Originally by: Hul'ka
Originally by: Ranger 1 So.... how many levels did you go up while not paying for your WOW account?
Actually there is a reward for players that took a brake and came back in WOW. It has something to do with ½rested+ state, when you get double the SP from killing monsters then you usually do. So, yea, there is something similar to ghost training in WOW, only implemented in a different way.. :P
To be honest, yet another reason why I don't play WOW.
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Farouq Rizer
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Posted - 2008.10.30 18:13:00 -
[5205]
Edited by: Farouq Rizer on 30/10/2008 18:14:10
Originally by: Ranger 1 Edited by: Ranger 1 on 30/10/2008 18:08:41 So.... how many levels did you go up while not paying for your WOW account?
Channi, you do realize how many bugs are STILL unfixed in EVE right?
I could care less about the questions you pose, as they are irrelevant. I DO care that if you and I both have two accounts, you can train one of them up to the same level as mine while paying a fraction of the amount I do. Needed to be fixed at some point, was fixed at some point. Not much more needs to be said.
your comparing apples to monster trucks. I can login to WoW and play a month straight for example, and be able to max my char, thats impossible to do in EvE due to it's unique skill system.
You're skills progess the same speed offline or online. So unless they add a benefit for actually being online when your skill is being trained, then they should've just left ghost training alone.
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Ranger 1
Amarr Shiva Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2008.10.30 18:21:00 -
[5206]
Originally by: Farouq Rizer Edited by: Farouq Rizer on 30/10/2008 18:14:10
Originally by: Ranger 1 Edited by: Ranger 1 on 30/10/2008 18:08:41 So.... how many levels did you go up while not paying for your WOW account?
Channi, you do realize how many bugs are STILL unfixed in EVE right?
I could care less about the questions you pose, as they are irrelevant. I DO care that if you and I both have two accounts, you can train one of them up to the same level as mine while paying a fraction of the amount I do. Needed to be fixed at some point, was fixed at some point. Not much more needs to be said.
your comparing apples to monster trucks. I can login to WoW and play a month straight for example, and be able to max my char, thats impossible to do in EvE due to it's unique skill system.
You're skills progess the same speed offline or online. So unless they add a benefit for actually being online when your skill is being trained, then they should've just left ghost training alone.
I didn't make the comparison to WOW, Tivookz did. I responded. Sorry if I didn't make that clear. The "benefit" for being online is actually playing the game. The whole point of the unique training system was so that you weren't penalized for not being able to be online on a regular basis. The point was NOT to be able to train whether your account was being paid for or not.
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Chani Fedaykin
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Posted - 2008.10.30 18:27:00 -
[5207]
Edited by: Chani Fedaykin on 30/10/2008 18:32:24
Originally by: Ranger 1 Channi, you do realize how many bugs are STILL unfixed in EVE right?
I could care less about the questions you pose, as they are irrelevant. I DO care that if you and I both have two accounts, you can train one of them up to the same level as mine while paying a fraction of the amount I do. Needed to be fixed at some point, was fixed at some point. Not much more needs to be said.
your are really amusing ^^ perhaps i should revert my comment on the playerbase of eve, but that would be just changing my perception of the community based upon you ... which ofc would be really stupid, and i would contradict my previous statement myself :P
you possess the great ability to neglect a lot of things said, and only pick out those that you are able to oppose with your reasoning. basically you dont even try to reply to a whole post, but mostly repeat yourself with your own narrow minded arguments and target those pieces that are suited for this approach.
edit: btw - if we start this (stupid and irrelevant) wow comparison - a rested state in wow ... implemented in eve ... would obviously equal to beeing able to achieve whatever i do (only online activities ... imposes the word active) faster or with a greater benefit. so basically if you take two mission runners - one playing 16/7 the other 2/4 ... the second mission runner should be able to get faster standings, earn more isk, lp etc in the same amount of time compared to the 'permanent' player. because you cant compare the rested feature of wow with the offline training of eve. both characters accumulate the same sp wether one is active or not, whereas the 'permanent' player has an advantage in a lot of other fields compared to the casual player.
but as i stated in the beginning, this discussion is irrelevant anyways :P |
Sandy Minge
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Posted - 2008.10.30 18:27:00 -
[5208]
Originally by: Ranger 1 Edited by: Ranger 1 on 30/10/2008 18:08:41 I could care less about the questions you pose, as they are irrelevant. I DO care that if you and I both have two accounts, you can train one of them up to the same level as mine while paying a fraction of the amount I do. Needed to be fixed at some point, was fixed at some point. Not much more needs to be said.
Given the best case scenario of having a cap ship char the skill plan might look something like this: Capitals5 - 60d GTC 60d in order to change skill Carriers5 - 60d GTC 60d in order to change skill Dreads5 - 60d GTC 60d in order to change skill year passed
So even in the best possible scenario the "ghost skiller" would have paid 50% of the non ghost skiller costs. Hardly a fraction of the money - especially when considering that this is a one time oppurtunity in an eve chars life and most skills are about rank 6-9 which would raise the level of subscriptioness to around 75%.
Besides: If you care about the fact that ppl might get service cheaper than you so much, then you should get CCP to remove/fix the Power of 2 proposition, as it clearly allowes people to train up alts cheaper.
In fact - when thinking about this response - someone might come to the conclusion that you are a greedy, selfish, nitpicking bastard who is just crying out everytime somebody else might have gotten an advantage over you! Pathetic and disgusting!
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Lorac Caladon
Caldari The Cowboy Junkies
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Posted - 2008.10.30 18:31:00 -
[5209]
Originally by: Ranger 1 Edited by: Ranger 1 on 30/10/2008 17:06:48
Quote: So, now that feature is suddenly a bug because a dev at CCP says so.
Fortunately for me, I can read more than one line in the manual that is contrary to the numerous posts from DEVs over the years stating that this really wasn't an intended feature of skill training in EVE.
Since you brought it up, care to point out any of these posts so us less unfortunate can read it too?
Originally by: Ranger 1 You'll have to excuse me, and the majority of EVE, for using common sense and taking updated information over old information. Especially when that updated information makes perfect sense.
A. I don't have to do anything. B. How did you get elected to be the spokesperson for the majority of Eve again? Election?
Originally by: Ranger 1 If you can justify having multiple highly skilled characters for a fraction of the price that everyone else (you know, the ones that expect to actually pay the fee for being able to do game related things like training characters)has paid over the same amount of time, then good for you. While I have no animosity towards you, I really can't generate much sympathy for the angst you are experiencing. Its the price you pay for stubbornly attempting to justify what you were doing.
This really makes no sense and has nothing to do with the analogy I gave you. I don't farm characters. I had 2 accounts. I paid for one with $$ the other GTC's. CCP raised the price of GTC's and removed my options. They then made it worthless to me to have a second account. I am not asking for nor do I care if you have sympathy or not. I am just stating facts.
Originally by: Ranger 1 It's hardly surprising that all of the new players (and most everyone else that's been around for awhile) are somewhat amused by your distress and wonder why you are having trouble dealing with CCP finally fixing a borked mechanic. Especially when it is a matter that allows you to have characters equal in skill to their own, for a fraction of the price. If you can't understand that in a internet spaceship game, then good luck to you in the real world.
Ah, right. I don't agree with your opinion about how a spaceship game is run, therefore I must need luck adapting to the pressure of "the real world". Original concept.
Originally by: Ranger 1 Edit: I almost forgot. For those spewing on about "thousands of accounts closed due to this change", the question was brought up in Zulu's thread. Closed accounts have numbered in the hundreds. Since the majority of those were already semi-active at best, your 170ish thread doesn't appear to be reflecting the true level of outrage thread has been claiming would be evident. It really is time to move on to more important matters, or if you feel that strongly quit running your mouth and quit already. This is old news and a dead horse.
You must care an awful lot about dead horses and old news. After all, you are still here posting. Anyway, as I have stated before, I have let one account expire and cancelled the other. Until my time expires, I reserve the right to post my opinion and hope that CCP does something to right this wrong.
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Seth Vorlar
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Posted - 2008.10.30 18:33:00 -
[5210]
Originally by: Sandy Minge
Originally by: Ranger 1 Edited by: Ranger 1 on 30/10/2008 18:08:41 I could care less about the questions you pose, as they are irrelevant. I DO care that if you and I both have two accounts, you can train one of them up to the same level as mine while paying a fraction of the amount I do. Needed to be fixed at some point, was fixed at some point. Not much more needs to be said.
Given the best case scenario of having a cap ship char the skill plan might look something like this: Capitals5 - 60d GTC 60d in order to change skill Carriers5 - 60d GTC 60d in order to change skill Dreads5 - 60d GTC 60d in order to change skill year passed
So even in the best possible scenario the "ghost skiller" would have paid 50% of the non ghost skiller costs. Hardly a fraction of the money - especially when considering that this is a one time oppurtunity in an eve chars life and most skills are about rank 6-9 which would raise the level of subscriptioness to around 75%.
Besides: If you care about the fact that ppl might get service cheaper than you so much, then you should get CCP to remove/fix the Power of 2 proposition, as it clearly allowes people to train up alts cheaper.
In fact - when thinking about this response - someone might come to the conclusion that you are a greedy, selfish, nitpicking bastard who is just crying out everytime somebody else might have gotten an advantage over you! Pathetic and disgusting!
QFT
bend over ranger
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Tivookz
Caldari IMPERIAL SENATE Pure.
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Posted - 2008.10.30 18:35:00 -
[5211]
Edited by: Tivookz on 30/10/2008 18:38:21
Quote: I didn't make the comparison to WOW, Tivookz did. I responded. Sorry if I didn't make that clear. The "benefit" for being online is actually playing the game. The whole point of the unique training system was so that you weren't penalized for not being able to be online on a regular basis. The point was NOT to be able to train whether your account was being paid for or not.
You're not able to train your account when it's not being paid for.
It's not like you can set a huge skillqueue or log on when the account is not paid for and change skills etc like you're making it sound like.
I'd rather call it finishing the skill you activated when you actually paid for the subscription and was online.
WoW is easy to max out and they still have their own "ghost training" system in place to give returning players a free boost because you still have to pay for your account again to reap the riches from the skill that finished.
Like I said, saying that ghost training skillpoints are given for free is just bs.
Tiv __________________________________________________
Hating Cash Craving Productions since oct 15th 2008 |
hopper2j2
Caldari Kazoo RnD Enterprises
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Posted - 2008.10.30 18:36:00 -
[5212]
Old thread or not, they knew about this feature/bug whatever, over 2yrs ago as stated in those threads. They've lied to you not once but twice over this. Unintended feature, even their own staff have said over 2yrs ago that inactive accts still train.
Imho- Ghost training was there because of the amount of time it takes to actually train the skills. It was a way to pull people in from other games like WoW etc who were used to 'skilling' up as they fight, craft, etc.
It was a marketing tool to draw in people who were sceptical about the whole real time training aspect of the game.
They've removed it now because they r established and no longer need it.
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Ranger 1
Amarr Shiva Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2008.10.30 18:47:00 -
[5213]
Edited by: Ranger 1 on 30/10/2008 18:48:17
Originally by: Seth Vorlar
Originally by: Sandy Minge
Originally by: Ranger 1 Edited by: Ranger 1 on 30/10/2008 18:08:41 I could care less about the questions you pose, as they are irrelevant. I DO care that if you and I both have two accounts, you can train one of them up to the same level as mine while paying a fraction of the amount I do. Needed to be fixed at some point, was fixed at some point. Not much more needs to be said.
Given the best case scenario of having a cap ship char the skill plan might look something like this: Capitals5 - 60d GTC 60d in order to change skill Carriers5 - 60d GTC 60d in order to change skill Dreads5 - 60d GTC 60d in order to change skill year passed
So even in the best possible scenario the "ghost skiller" would have paid 50% of the non ghost skiller costs. Hardly a fraction of the money - especially when considering that this is a one time oppurtunity in an eve chars life and most skills are about rank 6-9 which would raise the level of subscriptioness to around 75%.
Besides: If you care about the fact that ppl might get service cheaper than you so much, then you should get CCP to remove/fix the Power of 2 proposition, as it clearly allowes people to train up alts cheaper.
In fact - when thinking about this response - someone might come to the conclusion that you are a greedy, selfish, nitpicking bastard who is just crying out everytime somebody else might have gotten an advantage over you! Pathetic and disgusting!
QFT
bend over ranger
I'd like to thank you for so eloquently proving my point. Last time I checked,paying 50% less than someone else for an account with a character of equal skill is indeed a fraction of the cost. And of course, that would be 50% less for each account that they ghost train on. Much obliged.
Oh yes, if objecting to the concept of people paying half price to achieve characters equal in skill to everyone else in the same amount of time makes me a Quote: greedy, selfish, nitpicking bastard
then I will happily start attending the requisite club meetings and wearing my ID badge.
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Hul'ka
Minmatar MicroFunks
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Posted - 2008.10.30 18:59:00 -
[5214]
Originally by: Ranger 1
Originally by: Hul'ka
Originally by: Ranger 1 So.... how many levels did you go up while not paying for your WOW account?
Actually there is a reward for players that took a brake and came back in WOW. It has something to do with ½rested+ state, when you get double the SP from killing monsters then you usually do. So, yea, there is something similar to ghost training in WOW, only implemented in a different way.. :P
To be honest, yet another reason why I don't play WOW.
meh don't understands.... --------- phew phew
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Richard Aiel
Caldari Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2008.10.30 19:12:00 -
[5215]
Originally by: Ranger 1 please CCP shove it deeper
I reiterate my point of being amazed for far fanbois will allow ccp to shove objects into their rectums ------------------------------------------------ CCP you are your own worst enemy. ------------------------------------------------ |
Vama Mapri
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Posted - 2008.10.30 19:21:00 -
[5216]
How do I actually delete my account once it's de-activated ?
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Squirrrel
Gallente Squirrrel Industries
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Posted - 2008.10.30 19:23:00 -
[5217]
Originally by: Yeknom Nam
Well, I wonder what happened to my post. It was just there yesterday, hmm. Surely, if it was purposefully removed they would have told me why?
Yeah same for me... maybe it was a ghost-post.
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Bistot Kid
The First Thing You'll Ever See
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Posted - 2008.10.30 19:33:00 -
[5218]
I am teh post eater and I am eated all teh posts.
Nom nom nom hudnderds of lovely pages. -------------------- What? Me Worry? -------------------- |
Razzlee
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Posted - 2008.10.30 20:09:00 -
[5219]
Edited by: Razzlee on 30/10/2008 20:12:55 To all the fanboy clowns like Ranger 1 who will spin anything CCP does as a positive, take a break. You won't want these posts being pulled up in a few months when CCP reverses this decision and you now have to trumpet what a brilliant move it is to reestablish ghost training.
By that time though, as accounts that were cancelled over this expire, people quit completely, others scale back and only play with one or two accounts, your utopia of Eve where CCP can do no wrong is going to be a far more empty place. Suck up to CCP all you want while making ingenious arguments that can be picked apart. Without a healthy population of fellow players, the majority of life gets sucked out of an MMO and a vast amount of the fun is lost for those who are left.
Agree or disagree with this decision, the end result is going to be thousands of fewer active accounts and a noticeable reduction in new players due to the removal of this feature and the negative word of mouth that is being generated by this decision.
The start of the death spiral of almost every MMO usually has a very well defined event that everyone points to. A year from now as subscriptions lag and the Eve world becomes a ghost town, this will be the decision that everyone points to as the "beginning of the end".
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Clair Bear
Coalition of Nations Free Trade Zone.
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Posted - 2008.10.30 20:13:00 -
[5220]
Originally by: Ranger 1
I'd like to thank you for so eloquently proving my point. Last time I checked,paying 50% less than someone else for an account with a character of equal skill is indeed a fraction of the cost. And of course, that would be 50% less for each account that they ghost train on. Much obliged.
Ok, do you think this game had a if(character.getName().equals("Ranger 1")) { disableUnpaidTraining(); } anywhere? This was a feature of the game available to anyone. Crying that you were disadvantaged because you chose not to use it holds zero water. Sorry.
Devs had previously said the *FEATURE* is staying on tranq even though it's gone elsewhere because it's viewed as an incentive to resubscribe. That has since been outweighed by the need for short term cash. That simple. There is no in-game reason for this, no fairness in denying newcomers the ability to do what players in the 5 years past had as an option. Just simple "we are selling fewer GTCs, please increase demand kthxbye."
Quote:
Oh yes, if objecting to the concept of people paying half price to achieve characters equal in skill to everyone else in the same amount of time makes me a Quote: greedy, selfish, nitpicking bastard
then I will happily start attending the requisite club meetings and wearing my ID badge.
You're objecting to training not being cancelled when account is unpaid, not whatever strawman you just conjured up. Do try to keep up.
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Squirrrel
Gallente Squirrrel Industries
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Posted - 2008.10.30 20:22:00 -
[5221]
Edited by: Squirrrel on 30/10/2008 20:22:13
Originally by: Ranger 1
Fortunately for me, I can read more than one line in the manual that is contrary to the numerous posts from DEVs over the years stating that this really wasn't an intended feature of skill training in EVE.
Yet can't seem to read the thread or grasp the point eh?
Please tell me how you go from this:
Originally by: CCP Wrangler (April 2007)
The skill trains until the level you're currently training is completed. You can't start training on the next level or new skill until you login of course
And this:
Originally by: CCP Jiekon (November 2006) Hi folks.
I just want to let you know that skill training WILL continue while the account is inactive. I had picked this up wrong when i was speaking to Wrangler before and i mistakenly told him that skills stop training when accounts go inactive, this is why it was included in the patch notes and it's entirely my fault.
This was a mistake on my part and the patch notes will be changed and that line removed as soon as possible.
Apologies for the misunderstandings.
To this:
Originally by: EVE Online Senior Producer Torfi Frans - www.mmorpg.com Interview
ôWe announced it as a bug, which it was to a lot of us old devs, but as it turned out, our website listed it as a feature because we had outsourced the writing of our career guide to someone who was not knowledgeable about the code itself, years ago back in 2004à It was like a virus waiting to get out and nobody had really given it much thought until it was pointed out when the whole debate started.ö
ôIt was a general oversight on our part,ö Torfi admitted. He went on to remind me about the companyÆs origins as a smaller company. ôBack in 2004,ö he said, ôwe were a company of 40 doing what companies of 80 or 120 were doingà struggling to keep EVE alive. Back then, we had a lot of challenges, a lot of things we were doing and this slipped between the cracks. IÆm not saying that this makes it right, but in the larger perspective, itÆs just one of those things that happened.ö
Yeah, no one at CCP knew about it. No one gave it much thought.
These forums are littered with old posts from CCP where they don't mention it like it's a feature and say "it's there, but we'd rather you didn't use it so much."
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Squirrrel
Gallente Squirrrel Industries
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Posted - 2008.10.30 20:28:00 -
[5222]
Edited by: Squirrrel on 30/10/2008 20:49:34
Originally by: Ranger 1 More stuff
By the way, how's your wife now?
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Lorac Caladon
Caldari The Cowboy Junkies
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Posted - 2008.10.30 21:05:00 -
[5223]
Originally by: Clair Bear
Originally by: Ranger 1
I'd like to thank you for so eloquently proving my point. Last time I checked,paying 50% less than someone else for an account with a character of equal skill is indeed a fraction of the cost. And of course, that would be 50% less for each account that they ghost train on. Much obliged.
Ok, do you think this game had a if(character.getName().equals("Ranger 1")) { disableUnpaidTraining(); } anywhere? This was a feature of the game available to anyone. Crying that you were disadvantaged because you chose not to use it holds zero water. Sorry.
Devs had previously said the *FEATURE* is staying on tranq even though it's gone elsewhere because it's viewed as an incentive to resubscribe. That has since been outweighed by the need for short term cash. That simple. There is no in-game reason for this, no fairness in denying newcomers the ability to do what players in the 5 years past had as an option. Just simple "we are selling fewer GTCs, please increase demand kthxbye."
Quote:
Oh yes, if objecting to the concept of people paying half price to achieve characters equal in skill to everyone else in the same amount of time makes me a Quote: greedy, selfish, nitpicking bastard
then I will happily start attending the requisite club meetings and wearing my ID badge.
You're objecting to training not being cancelled when account is unpaid, not whatever strawman you just conjured up. Do try to keep up.
Quoted for truth.
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Bonefish O'Hallahan
Gallente GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.10.30 22:27:00 -
[5224]
buttwipes Get OUT CCP |
DeODokktor
Dark Templars The Fonz Presidium
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Posted - 2008.10.30 23:12:00 -
[5225]
Edited by: DeODokktor on 30/10/2008 23:12:42
Originally by: Ranger 1
I'd like to thank you for so eloquently proving my point. Last time I checked,paying 50% less than someone else for an account with a character of equal skill is indeed a fraction of the cost. And of course, that would be 50% less for each account that they ghost train on. Much obliged.
*Signed*.. People paying 50% less for each account is obviously a bug.. Americans and Non-EU folk have had the joy of this for years!..
The recent **** of the icelandic currency means that now locals in iceland are paying 50% less for ETC's than yanks, and a lot less than europeans..
CCP, Your FanBoi "Ranger 1" who is on your side says MAKE IT FAIR... Forget the windfall profits you are making this month on your currency going to pot, change all billing methods to ISK, Pass on the 50-60% discount to players!
To make it fair, also ban all Americans for 3 months (for every year they have owned the account) and Icelanic folk 5 months (for every year they have owned the account)..
CLOSE THIS LOOPHOLE BUG NOW, FAIR PRICES FOR ALL, EQUALITY FOR ALL...
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Richard Aiel
Caldari Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2008.10.31 00:29:00 -
[5226]
Originally by: Bonefish O'Hallahan buttwipes
CMON Goonswarm can do better than THAT ------------------------------------------------ CCP you are your own worst enemy. ------------------------------------------------ |
Chindi Yazzie
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Posted - 2008.10.31 01:22:00 -
[5227]
Originally by: Ranger 1 stuff
CCP Employee alt detected.
CY
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Corbin Swift
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Posted - 2008.10.31 01:31:00 -
[5228]
Just a reminder.
Today (31st Oct) is Strike Day. To show your solidarity with fellow players, and show CCP how annoyed we are with their unilateral decisions, do not play Eve for 24 hours. Until recently, CCP seemed to listen to what we had to say about the direction that Eve was taking. That may have been a sham, a pretense, whatever, but at least it felt like our input mattered. Now the dictators aren't even pretending anymore. There's more of us than there is of them, and we pay their salaries. I demand that they go back to pretending to listen to us.
Player Power!
Corbin
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Corbin Swift
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Posted - 2008.10.31 01:38:00 -
[5229]
Originally by: Corbin Swift Just a reminder.
Today (31st Oct) is Strike Day. To show your solidarity with fellow players, and show CCP how annoyed we are with their unilateral decisions, do not play Eve for 24 hours. Until recently, CCP seemed to listen to what we had to say about the direction that Eve was taking. That may have been a sham, a pretense, whatever, but at least it felt like our input mattered. Now the dictators aren't even pretending anymore. There's more of us than there is of them, and we pay their salaries. I demand that they go back to pretending to listen to us.
Player Power!
Corbin
It looks like even the hamsters are supporting the players in the strike. Tranquility Status
Corbin
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Chindi Yazzie
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Posted - 2008.10.31 01:52:00 -
[5230]
And for the record, I never used Ghost Training on any of my 4 accounts. I agree that it needs to be removed. I further agree that NOT removing the other Ghostable aspects of the game shows exactly what CCP is leaning for. More cash.
My main reason for cancelling ALL of my subscriptions is not CCP removing Ghost Training, but how they went about it, the lies they told, then the further lies they told to fix their first set of lies, and then the lies to cover up and fix that set.
Adding insult to injury.. the extreme lack of discourse here in this thread, by anyone from CCP. 170+ pages and growing and all of 3 yes thats right, 3 posts by CCP employees (ranger 1 ccp employee alt not withstanding) and those doing nothing more than adding fuel to the fire.
They have not once addressed or attempted to address the other issues raised by the customer base that are in line with ghost training. They said they removed ghost training to prevent "others from having an unfair advantage" but when tasked about the "Unfair advantage" of ghost research, etc not a word from CCP.
The obvious truth to be seen here is not that CCP thought it was an unfair advantage to players. They had MILLIONS of dollars go up in smoke with the Icelandic bank they invested money with when their economy went belly up. They lost big so to attempt to make up for that wallet PVP the economy engaged in, they turned around and pulled some PvP of their own on the playerbase wallets.
The end effect has been the loss of MY 4 accounts. All cancelled. Never to be renewed. All the stuff given away to friends in the game, all characters biomassed except the mains, which will be put to the biomass the day before the accounts play time ends.
I am not atypical in this. many people who DID quit, or DID unsubscribe an account or two, did it not so much because Ghost Training was removed, but for How and Why it was removed and how CCP has subsequently handled the responses from the playerbase.
"making claims" that only a few hundred people unsubscribed may be true, but calculate this. Most had multiple accounts. lets just say for arguments sake that the average was 3 accounts per player.
3 x $15.00 x 12 months = $540.00
540.00 x 400 (pulled out of my ass) = $216,000.00 a year loss.
no company is going to see a 1/4 million dollar drop in revenue lightly.
You can figure the actual numbers of unsubscribed subscriptions is most likely greater than the paltry 400 I used for my example. Especially considering that those losses will only accumulate over time as those who are off doing other things, return to find the skills they thought would be finished, never are not. so...
Lets say 1000 people unsubscribed their accounts.
1000 x 3 x 15.00 x 12 = 540000.00 more than a 1/2 million dollars.
ccp's earnings overall are pretty good yes, but now factor in negative PR (**** one person off they tell everyone) and you see a game that now has the potential of going into it's death spiral.
I love EVE. I hate and would hate to see it die. But the manner that CCP has and is handling the concerns of it's player-base leads me to believe that EVE is not long for the delete button on their servers.
CY
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Rasik Argimater
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Posted - 2008.10.31 02:00:00 -
[5231]
Originally by: Bimjo so is this plugging of a "loophole" to allow skill queueing in future ?
No. First, it was never a loophole or a bug. It was a natural side effect of they way they designed the training system to have no loading effect on the servers. Training is not an active process in any way and is unaffected by game play. For training "completions" to have occurred by certain calendar dates regardless of game play or even account status was completely natural the way CCP designed it. The recent nerf actually adds code and server load to cancel training steps when accounts expire.
Various CCP personnel stated at various times that this was the way the game worked. Forum claims that CCP was just acknowledging unsubbed training without affirming it as a feature are bogus. The same spin could be put on almost any explanations of game features. Game features are not documented or explained with the qualifier "This is an intended feature, not a bug or inadvertant game mechanic." The absence of such a qualifier is no evidence that a documented feature is not really a feature.
Second, unsubbed training in no way stood in the way of CCP implementing a training queue. The way they could have co-existed was simple: a training queue would only be effective for active accounts. Unsubbed training (completion of the current training step) could have continued just as it has for five years with no effect on a training queue.
CCP invented the term, "ghost training" only when they decided to nerf this feature. For five years the feature had no name; it was simply explained that training "continues" to completion of the current step while you are logged off, even if your account expires and becomes inactive. To have invented a mildly pejorative name for the feature at the moment of nerfing it is pure PR spin.
In my opinion, CCP calling unsubbed training a "bug" in their announcement of the nerf was pure bull****, going beyond PR spin. I view it as a baldfaced lie. I don't like being lied to by anyone, much less a vendor I support with my subscription fees.
Then they said, well, maybe not exactly a bug, but an unintended game mechanic we had long intended to remove. Remove??? There was nothing to remove, as unsubbed training was a direct result of the way training was designed and implemented in the first place. To nerf it they had to add code and add extra duties for the servers.
Then they alluded to "fairness." That was more PR spin and misdirection. Unsubbed training gave no advantage to those who made use of it. Rather, it reduced the penalty for those who, for whatever reason, let their accounts expire. And, of course, it acted as a powerful incentive to reactivate accounts, since no benefit could be realized from completed training without reactivating the account and logging in.
Finally, after various twists, turns and apparent lies, one of the CCP people let the cat out of the bag: it was a business decision. Translation: money. Someone at CCP forgot that unsubbed training was part of the addictive aspects of the game, drawing people back into being paid subscribers, and thought that if they nerfed it they would somehow "force" more accounts to be active more of the time. Wrong! Nerfing this addictive feature just turned reactivation of lapsed accounts into a big ho-hum. The inevitable result, obvious to all except CCP and their fanbois, will be a lower reactivation rate and a reduced online population. To that reduction will be added accounts consolidated because it no longer pays to have extra part-time accounts getting some training done while inactive. To those reductions will be added accounts lost due to ppl being grossly offended by the lies and spin and the utter illogic of the nerf.
The way CCP are stonewalling this forces me to question how intelligent the Icelanders really are. That they are well equipped with self-assured arrogance is obvious. This is my sig? |
Lorac Caladon
Caldari The Cowboy Junkies
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Posted - 2008.10.31 03:04:00 -
[5232]
Originally by: Bonefish O'Hallahan buttwipes
You are.
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Ranger 1
Amarr Shiva Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2008.10.31 04:36:00 -
[5233]
Originally by: Squirrrel Edited by: Squirrrel on 30/10/2008 20:49:34
Originally by: Ranger 1 More stuff
By the way, how's your wife now?
She's good, still playing EVE after all this time. A bit irked that she missed out on killing Shrike's Titan both times this week due to work however. She'll have to wait til next time.
Sorry for the derailment folks, please carry on... and on...
|
Ranger 1
Amarr Shiva Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2008.10.31 04:42:00 -
[5234]
Originally by: Chindi Yazzie
Originally by: Ranger 1 stuff
CCP Employee alt detected.
CY
Heh, nope. Just someone who's been around long enough to know a tempest in a tea cup when I see one.
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Last Wolf
Umbra Wing
|
Posted - 2008.10.31 04:47:00 -
[5235]
__________________________________________________________
Originally by: Liang Nuren wrong forum isroy i am vjery drunm
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Lorac Caladon
Caldari The Cowboy Junkies
|
Posted - 2008.10.31 04:49:00 -
[5236]
Originally by: Last Wolf
Is that what you see when you spank it?
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Last Wolf
Umbra Wing
|
Posted - 2008.10.31 04:54:00 -
[5237]
At least I don't crying about not being able to advance my INTERNET SPACESHIPS character when I'm not paying for it. __________________________________________________________
Originally by: Liang Nuren wrong forum isroy i am vjery drunm
|
Richard Aiel
Caldari Caldari Provisions
|
Posted - 2008.10.31 05:02:00 -
[5238]
Originally by: Chindi Yazzie
Originally by: Ranger 1 stuff
CCP Employee alt detected.
CY
This is one of the reasons CCP employees shouldnt be allowed to play the game ------------------------------------------------ CCP you are your own worst enemy. ------------------------------------------------ |
Lorac Caladon
Caldari The Cowboy Junkies
|
Posted - 2008.10.31 05:20:00 -
[5239]
Originally by: Richard Aiel
Originally by: Chindi Yazzie
Originally by: Ranger 1 stuff
CCP Employee alt detected.
CY
This is one of the reasons CCP employees shouldnt be allowed to play the game
I tried to ask a simple question in GD and my thread was locked...
|
Ezoran DuBlaidd
Freedom From Fear Industries
|
Posted - 2008.10.31 06:52:00 -
[5240]
Originally by: Last Wolf At least I don't crying about not being able to advance my INTERNET SPACESHIPS character when I'm not paying for it.
they need to hurry up and disable skill advancement when you're not logged on and actively playing.
i want to see all the "smart" people support that nerf as well.
|
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Rasik Argimater
|
Posted - 2008.10.31 07:04:00 -
[5241]
Originally by: Last Wolf At least I don't crying about not being able to advance my INTERNET SPACESHIPS character when I'm not paying for it.
Go away. You obviously don't understand the issue. This is my sig? |
Ezoran DuBlaidd
Freedom From Fear Industries
|
Posted - 2008.10.31 07:30:00 -
[5242]
Originally by: Ranger 1 Edited by: Ranger 1 on 30/10/2008 17:06:48
Quote: So, now that feature is suddenly a bug because a dev at CCP says so.
Fortunately for me, I can read more than one line in the manual that is contrary to the numerous posts from DEVs over the years stating that this really wasn't an intended feature of skill training in EVE.
You'll have to excuse me, and the majority of EVE, for using common sense and taking updated information over old information. Especially when that updated information makes perfect sense.
If you can justify having multiple highly skilled characters for a fraction of the price that everyone else (you know, the ones that expect to actually pay the fee for being able to do game related things like training characters)has paid over the same amount of time, then good for you. While I have no animosity towards you, I really can't generate much sympathy for the angst you are experiencing. Its the price you pay for stubbornly attempting to justify what you were doing.
It's hardly surprising that all of the new players (and most everyone else that's been around for awhile) are somewhat amused by your distress and wonder why you are having trouble dealing with CCP finally fixing a borked mechanic. Especially when it is a matter that allows you to have characters equal in skill to their own, for a fraction of the price. If you can't understand that in a internet spaceship game, then good luck to you in the real world.
Edit: I almost forgot. For those spewing on about "thousands of accounts closed due to this change", the question was brought up in Zulu's thread. Closed accounts have numbered in the hundreds. Since the majority of those were already semi-active at best, your 170ish thread doesn't appear to be reflecting the true level of outrage thread has been claiming would be evident. It really is time to move on to more important matters, or if you feel that strongly quit running your mouth and quit already. This is old news and a dead horse.
it's amazing that you can read between the lines; but it doesn't occur to you that inactive accounts in the midst of training simply aren't being renewed? or perhaps some of them are in the midst of a 60d gtc?
oddly enough, i can't seem to find the posts of your (or anyone else's) outrage at this horrible abuse brought about by inactive account training, PRIOR to the announcement of the nerf. why is that?
no really, why is that?
why do you expect that you should continue to skill up while your character is offline?
wasn't this "bug" fixed once before and brought back rather swiftly?
i also wish to live in a world where i can pretend that only my words matter and that even if there is a ton of factual information against what i type, it's ok, because only what i type matters.
so when someone makes a post in a few months wondering why there isn't a lot of noticeable growth lately.... please remember that it was only hundreds of accounts. maybe only 30 hundreds, maybe only 300 hundreds...
how EXACTLY does one determine the number of accounts lost? has someone developed a metric to trace accounts that go active/inactive after X amount of days over X number of months/years?
seriously, how does one determine that an account hasn't been reactivated, therefore it's cancelled for good?
oh yeah, i'm sorry, you can read more than one line in the manual, so you've got these answers all whipped up for us already.
go for it. |
Muhammad Hamza
|
Posted - 2008.10.31 07:54:00 -
[5243]
Originally by: Last Wolf At least I don't crying about not being able to advance my INTERNET SPACESHIPS character when I'm not paying for it.
I think its more of a way of protesting then cry wolf
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Fivo Asia
|
Posted - 2008.10.31 08:06:00 -
[5244]
Again I point out, the whole thread is bull if you don't start selling skillpoints on my schedule. You offered ghost training as an inducement before and gripe when it seems to cost your bottom-line.
I, OTOH, wish to purchase MORE skillpoints faster. I'll even double up on the points to profit ratio (skill points for 6 months for the price of a year's subscription) to sweeten the pot.
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Rasik Argimater
|
Posted - 2008.10.31 08:30:00 -
[5245]
Originally by: Ezoran DuBlaidd
Originally by: Last Wolf At least I don't crying about not being able to advance my INTERNET SPACESHIPS character when I'm not paying for it.
they need to hurry up and disable skill advancement when you're not logged on and actively playing.
i want to see all the "smart" people support that nerf as well.
Yeah. If they could suddently decide that unsubbed training was a bug, they could just as easily decide that logged-out training is a bug. In fact, with some recent comments by CCP staff about a training queue being unlikely because they want ppl to log in, apparently thinking that when someone gets up by alarm clock at 3am to restart training that they will go ahead and play Eve for a few hours even though they have to be at work in the morning... make me think that suddenly calling logged-out training a bug may not be all that unlikely.
And here's another one that may help put this in perspective:
- they should nerf jetcan mining.
It seems to be widely acknowledged by veterans that jetcan mining was never intended. Not a feature, but an unintended game mechanic. Sound familiar? Except this one is really true. CCP intended that we mine, fill up the cargo hold, return to the station, unload, go back to the belt, rinse and repeat. Sound crazy, right? But someone figured out how to use jetcans and haulers instead, and the rest is history.
So if CCP were to announce that jetcan mining was a "bug" and will be disabled in two days, would all the "smart" people support CCP as they have supported the nerf of unsubbed training? Despite the fact that jetcan mining, in hindsight, is what enables serious mining, CCP's original intent notwithstanding? Despite the fact that the game would lose most of its subscribers virtually overnight? This is my sig? |
Squirrrel
Gallente Squirrrel Industries
|
Posted - 2008.10.31 08:54:00 -
[5246]
Originally by: Rasik Argimater
And here's another one that may help put this in perspective:
- they should nerf jetcan mining.
It seems to be widely acknowledged by veterans that jetcan mining was never intended. Not a feature, but an unintended game mechanic. Sound familiar? Except this one is really true. CCP intended that we mine, fill up the cargo hold, return to the station, unload, go back to the belt, rinse and repeat. Sound crazy, right? But someone figured out how to use jetcans and haulers instead, and the rest is history.
So if CCP were to announce that jetcan mining was a "bug" and will be disabled in two days, would all the "smart" people support CCP as they have supported the nerf of unsubbed training? Despite the fact that jetcan mining, in hindsight, is what enables serious mining, CCP's original intent notwithstanding? Despite the fact that the game would lose most of its subscribers virtually overnight?
Well done for bringing that up. That's a good point.
CCP acknowledged all along that jetcan mining wasn't as intended, and it reached a point when people were having ore stolen from those cans and couldn't do a thing about it.
Did CCP "fix" the mechanic bug? No. They introduced Secure Containers. Hardly anyone used them, and went back to jetcan mining.
People complained, ore was being stolen from their cans AND secure cans were too small.
Did CCP "fix" the mechanic bug? No. They introduced the aggro timer.
CCP have acknowleged both unsubbed skill training (I refuse to call it ghost from now on as it never was) and jetmining - and both became acceptable due to CCP's reaction to them and in some cases encouragement to use them.
Still, that aside, the way they tried to spin the reasoning behind the decision , the continued mis-truths and lack of response to the outcry is the most disgusting thing and a bitter pill for subscribers to swallow.
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Muhammad Hamza
|
Posted - 2008.10.31 09:28:00 -
[5247]
Notice how you place a topic on the EVE General Discussion about the Ghost Training subject, but then you don't get deleted, banned or stopped.
Instead where you want to reply,"reply to topic" the link is not there anymore just a new topic.
See how CCP want to cover this problem up quickly. They CCP want us (the customers) to shutup and bite the bullet. So CCP can Bite my bullet of none of my hard earn cash in their bank account.
Good Luck to your future ventures CCP, I see you guys going down hill from here!
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Rosetterial
|
Posted - 2008.10.31 09:58:00 -
[5248]
Just quit the game.
Of all that's being said in the thread, CCP ain't gonna revert what's done...
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Ezoran DuBlaidd
Freedom From Fear Industries
|
Posted - 2008.10.31 10:20:00 -
[5249]
Originally by: Rosetterial Just quit the game.
Of all that's being said in the thread, CCP ain't gonna revert what's done...
except, that they did before. |
Tasty Bit
Gallente UNITED STAR SYNDICATE
|
Posted - 2008.10.31 11:08:00 -
[5250]
Originally by: Lorac Caladon Please don't discuss the forum moderation here. To discuss problems or concerns, please send an e-mail to: [email protected]. Applebabe
At least someone from CCP is watching this thread, even if it is only to delete stuff.
|
|
Tivookz
Caldari IMPERIAL SENATE Pure.
|
Posted - 2008.10.31 11:23:00 -
[5251]
Originally by: Tasty Bit
Originally by: Lorac Caladon Please don't discuss the forum moderation here. To discuss problems or concerns, please send an e-mail to: [email protected]. Applebabe
At least someone from CCP is watching this thread, even if it is only to delete stuff.
Don't confuse simple moderators with developers.
Tiv __________________________________________________
Hating Cash Craving Productions since oct 15th 2008 |
Rasik Argimater
|
Posted - 2008.10.31 11:28:00 -
[5252]
Originally by: Ezoran DuBlaidd
Originally by: Rosetterial Just quit the game.
Of all that's being said in the thread, CCP ain't gonna revert what's done...
except, that they did before.
I've read various comments to the effect that they did relent on a couple of issues in the history of Eve. For me, though, this has become too bitter for me to suddenly feel OK about Eve if they relent on this one. It will take quite some time. Quite some time. Until then, I will continue to reduce the $$ they get from me. I'm down to four active accounts. Two more expire on Nov 5, this one I'm posting with on Nov 15, and another on Nov 21.
Beyond restoring unsubbed training I might be favorably impressed by some real evidence of CCP repentance, say a self-immolation or two. At the very least some mortification of the flesh, with chains or whips. Video would be good. Abject, tearful apology would help. Bankruptcy would be best, but then we wouldn't get to enjoy Eve anymore. Unless, of course, some more intelligent company were to pick it up from the ashes of CCP. This is my sig? |
Ezoran DuBlaidd
Freedom From Fear Industries
|
Posted - 2008.10.31 11:29:00 -
[5253]
how is this thread relevant to the discussion here?
is it because it had the words "ghost training" in it, and instructions are to hunt down every thread with those two words (no matter what the thread is actually about), and direct it to this thread?
"smart", real "smart". |
Rasik Argimater
|
Posted - 2008.10.31 11:29:00 -
[5254]
Originally by: Squirrrel Edited by: Squirrrel on 30/10/2008 20:49:34
Originally by: Ranger 1 More stuff
By the way, how's your wife now?
Oh, good one! Good one! This is my sig? |
Ezoran DuBlaidd
Freedom From Fear Industries
|
Posted - 2008.10.31 11:31:00 -
[5255]
Originally by: Rasik Argimater
Originally by: Ezoran DuBlaidd
Originally by: Rosetterial Just quit the game.
Of all that's being said in the thread, CCP ain't gonna revert what's done...
except, that they did before.
I've read various comments to the effect that they did relent on a couple of issues in the history of Eve. For me, though, this has become too bitter for me to suddenly feel OK about Eve if they relent on this one. It will take quite some time. Quite some time. Until then, I will continue to reduce the $$ they get from me. I'm down to four active accounts. Two more expire on Nov 5, this one I'm posting with on Nov 15, and another on Nov 21.
Beyond restoring unsubbed training I might be favorably impressed by some real evidence of CCP repentance, say a self-immolation or two. At the very least some mortification of the flesh, with chains or whips. Video would be good. Abject, tearful apology would help. Bankruptcy would be best, but then we wouldn't get to enjoy Eve anymore. Unless, of course, some more intelligent company were to pick it up from the ashes of CCP.
what about if GTCs suddenly didn't cost 17% more than comparable GTCs for other games? |
Rasik Argimater
|
Posted - 2008.10.31 11:37:00 -
[5256]
Originally by: SCAM CEO Weellllllll, Im gueesing GTC's will drop in price after the initial "omfgCCPwtfjustpwnmeonghosttrainingIbetterbuyaGTCquick" after this and everyone tries to sell there 'spare toons' in two months time, think things will settle down.
I don't think GTC prices will drop. The reason is simple: many of the people whose interest in Eve has been significantly cooled are the same people who have been supplying many of the GTCs. I'm one of those. I don't deal in GTCs anymore because I don't want to buy any shiny new goodies, so I don't need to raise ISK. Supply and demand. The unsubbed training nerf has the effect of reducing GTC supply by discouraging many heavy hitters, thereby forcing prices up. This is my sig? |
Rasik Argimater
|
Posted - 2008.10.31 11:45:00 -
[5257]
Originally by: Ezoran DuBlaidd what about if GTCs suddenly didn't cost 17% more than comparable GTCs for other games?
As one of the people whose interest has been quenched as if by a bucketful of ice cold water, I can say that I no longer give a hoot what Eve GTCs cost in Dollars or in in-game ISK. It's just no longer relevant for me.
Similarly, what previously would have been very exciting in the upcoming Orca is now just a ho-hum for me. Same for ambulation, whenever that makes its appearance. Except that ambulation may give me something to do with my remaining one or two accounts instead of mining, missioning, manufacturing, researching, managing POSs, making expeditions into 0.0, etc. I no longer do those things. So maybe ambulation will turn Eve into a minor social site for me. Until that gets boring. Or until CCP swirls down the old commode and vanishes. I don't care much anymore. It's called apathy.
I dismantled a POS just before d/t. In two days I'll dismantle the last one and store it away. No matter what happens, nothing I have will be recycled into the Eve economy. I will sell no ships, no other stuff, and no characters. Nothing I have will ever become available "cheap" to anyone else. This is my sig? |
Bee oflight
|
Posted - 2008.10.31 11:50:00 -
[5258]
Fortunately for me, I can read more than one line in the manual that is contrary to the numerous posts from DEVs over the years stating that this really wasn't an intended feature of skill training in EVE.
You'll have to excuse me, and the majority of EVE, for using common sense and taking updated information over old information. Especially when that updated information makes perfect sense.
If you can justify having multiple highly skilled characters for a fraction of the price that everyone else (you know, the ones that expect to actually pay the fee for being able to do game related things like training characters)has paid over the same amount of time, then good for you. While I have no animosity towards you, I really can't generate much sympathy for the angst you are experiencing. Its the price you pay for stubbornly attempting to justify what you were doing.
It's hardly surprising that all of the new players (and most everyone else that's been around for awhile) are somewhat amused by your distress and wonder why you are having trouble dealing with CCP finally fixing a borked mechanic. Especially when it is a matter that allows you to have characters equal in skill to their own, for a fraction of the price. If you can't understand that in a internet spaceship game, then good luck to you in the real world.
Edit: I almost forgot. For those spewing on about "thousands of accounts closed due to this change", the question was brought up in Zulu's thread. Closed accounts have numbered in the hundreds. Since the majority of those were already semi-active at best, your 170ish thread doesn't appear to be reflecting the true level of outrage thread has been claiming would be evident. It really is time to move on to more important matters, or if you feel that strongly quit running your mouth and quit already. This is old news and a dead horse.
so player who work away from home and can play for 3 to 8 hour a week now will be very low sp after the same time as a play who get pay a high wage.
as i player who see the old end of the char (player in 0.0 and real 0.0 who get they timecode from a newbie who sell timecode for isk) i will not be able to all ways keep this account on line because i of work with 3 break in my back bone so i get 1/4 of my wage.
so with the real time skill tranning i will get resson to keep play eve as it will take my 2x the time to get to the same time of the old player
and i sick of play who say there go 1 account and do not use the ghost training
I bet all player have been of line for up to 5 day because pay day it after the closing day of there account
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Hul'ka
Minmatar MicroFunks
|
Posted - 2008.10.31 12:20:00 -
[5259]
Edited by: Hul''ka on 31/10/2008 12:20:52
Originally by: Ezoran DuBlaidd how is this thread relevant to the discussion here?
is it because it had the words "ghost training" in it, and instructions are to hunt down every thread with those two words (no matter what the thread is actually about), and direct it to this thread?
"smart", real "smart".
this way thay have only to worry how to burry one thread :D
btw, /signed for sticking this topic! --------- phew phew
|
Richard Aiel
Caldari Caldari Provisions
|
Posted - 2008.10.31 14:58:00 -
[5260]
Originally by: Hul'ka Edited by: Hul''ka on 31/10/2008 12:20:52
Originally by: Ezoran DuBlaidd how is this thread relevant to the discussion here?
is it because it had the words "ghost training" in it, and instructions are to hunt down every thread with those two words (no matter what the thread is actually about), and direct it to this thread?
"smart", real "smart".
this way thay have only to worry how to burry one thread :D
btw, /signed for sticking this topic!
It WAS originally stickied and then they unstickied it when they no longer wanted to deal with it, hoping it would just go away. FAIL ------------------------------------------------ CCP you are your own worst enemy. ------------------------------------------------ |
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iXetus
e-PWN
|
Posted - 2008.10.31 16:19:00 -
[5261]
Originally by: CCP Navigator
The thread content, I assume, is still the same.
LOL priceless. This is simply outrageous, you(devs) actually read this thread once in a while and laugh at us?!!
CCP be aware that i screenshot all my forum posts now. |
Richard Aiel
Caldari Caldari Provisions
|
Posted - 2008.10.31 17:17:00 -
[5262]
Edited by: Richard Aiel on 31/10/2008 17:19:13
Originally by: iXetus
Originally by: CCP Navigator
The thread content, I assume, is still the same.
LOL priceless. This is simply outrageous, you(devs) actually read this thread once in a while and laugh at us?!!
anyone else not laughing at their arrogance?
Wonder if theres a way to get yer account perminantly deleted? Im no longer interested in playing a game that these assh-oles make. Its sad too I was looking forward to World of Darkness but I wont be playing that either because of these egomaniacs
------------------------------------------------ CCP you are your own worst enemy. ------------------------------------------------ |
Tasty Bit
Gallente UNITED STAR SYNDICATE
|
Posted - 2008.10.31 20:58:00 -
[5263]
Edited by: Tasty Bit on 31/10/2008 20:58:31 ffs
|
Dos Cerveza
|
Posted - 2008.10.31 21:51:00 -
[5264]
Dear CCP,
Still no probs with removing Ghost Training, but please....
Give us a bloody skill chain, some of us with jobs (who are not 'allowed' to give our account details to mates) F***ing work for a living.
are all MMO's aimed at the unemployed?
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Squirrrel
Gallente Squirrrel Industries
|
Posted - 2008.10.31 21:59:00 -
[5265]
Edited by: Squirrrel on 31/10/2008 22:00:34
Originally by: Ezoran DuBlaidd how is this thread relevant to the discussion here?
is it because it had the words "ghost training" in it, and instructions are to hunt down every thread with those two words (no matter what the thread is actually about), and direct it to this thread?
"smart", real "smart".
Originally by: CCP Applebabe
Please keep all the discussion to the relevant sticky here.
It's not even a sticky.
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Squirrrel
Gallente Squirrrel Industries
|
Posted - 2008.10.31 22:17:00 -
[5266]
Originally by: Ranger 1
Originally by: Chindi Yazzie
Originally by: Ranger 1 stuff
CCP Employee alt detected.
CY
Heh, nope. Just someone who's been around long enough to know a tempest in a tea cup when I see one.
You may well have a shred of credibility if you actually answered questions that were put to you instead of your selective responses.
Your posts really do seem very employee-alty.
|
Schnitzar
|
Posted - 2008.11.01 00:37:00 -
[5267]
So I went overseas on the 10th. Imagine my joy when I got back, reactivated my accounts, and found that none of my skills had finished training. CCP wouldnÆt make a spelling correction with less than a weeks notice but they make what they know will be a hugely controversial change with two days warningà Nice.
Now IÆm fairly ****ed off, so this will be a text wall, deal with it.
Firstly, itÆs not like a character can be trained month on month off. When starting a character there are simply not enough high rank skills available, unless you donÆt mind training just any rank five or above skill. Seeing as most alt characters trained in the background are very specialized, they will train the skills they want, not just find a high rank skill to pass the time. Then when you get big juicy skills you probably have a very well skilled character who you actually want to play with.
I trained my alt like this for a while, barely had him inactive for more than 10 days until he had 15 mil SP. I have since only left him offline for a long period of time twice and I doubt I would have done so again because heÆs now a great character to play with.
Players can do nothing with an inactive character; I canÆt understand how this problem could be such a huge tax on CCP that they have to disable such an attractive feature so suddenlyà I would bet that keeping market orders up uses a lot more resources, why not disable other æghostÆ activities like this as well?
And finally, most characters with multiple accounts seem to have one main, which is nearly always active and one or two alts which they allow to go offline when it is convenient, as mentioned above. So one character 100% of the time, and two others 70 û 80% of the time, thatÆs about 2.5 subscription payments per month. A lot of people in this situation will now deactivate one account and keep the other two online fulltime, thatÆs two subscription payments. The way I see it both sides have just lost out.
Now I just need to decide which of mine to deactivate
Schnitz
|
Richard Aiel
Caldari Caldari Provisions
|
Posted - 2008.11.01 03:11:00 -
[5268]
Originally by: Squirrrel Edited by: Squirrrel on 31/10/2008 22:00:34
Originally by: Ezoran DuBlaidd how is this thread relevant to the discussion here?
is it because it had the words "ghost training" in it, and instructions are to hunt down every thread with those two words (no matter what the thread is actually about), and direct it to this thread?
"smart", real "smart".
Originally by: CCP Applebabe
Please keep all the discussion to the relevant sticky here.
It's not even a sticky.
I TRIED to note that fact with my post in General. And note the smarmy, arrogant response I got ------------------------------------------------ CCP you are your own worst enemy. ------------------------------------------------ |
Rasik Argimater
|
Posted - 2008.11.01 04:11:00 -
[5269]
Originally by: Schnitzar Players can do nothing with an inactive character; I canÆt understand how this problem could be such a huge tax on CCP that they have to disable such an attractive feature so suddenlyà I would bet that keeping market orders up uses a lot more resources, why not disable other æghostÆ activities like this as well?
It's even worse than you thought. Unsubbed training used zero resources. Training in Eve is not an active process. When you start a training step all that happens is that a one-time calculation is made to determine how long in real world, out-of-game time you must wait until you can use the new skill. Think of it as a calendar date and time written on a post-it note, stuck to the wall of your char info stored in the database. Unless you log in or use Evemon to retrieve char info, nothing at all looks at the note. Training appears to "continue" through downtime, server outages, etc., because the servers have nothing to do with "advancing" the training.
When you log in, your Eve client retrieves your char info and either detects that the calendar date/time has passed, or requests the server to examine it and detect the completion. That is how training "completions" are detected, not by any server process that runs continuously or periodically to monitor training.
If, when you log in, the date/time has not passed, your Eve client calculates the difference between the completion date/time and current server date/time. It uses this to detect a completion that occurs while you are still logged in, and to construct the elaborate illusions in the Char Sheet of the training progress bar and countdown of time remaining. The client makes training look like an ongoing process, but the completion was predetermined back when you clicked to start the training step. There is no ongoing process.
So a training step is actually a wait... until an out-of-game date and time. It's somewhat like real-life gift giving for birthdays, anniversaries, Christmas, etc. The gift is bought and paid for in advance but can't be used until a certain calendar date. Such a mechanism is, by its very design, unrelated to and unaffected by anything except the passage of real-world time -- the waiting period. In its simple and straightforward implementation by CCP, training was unaffected by player activity or even account status.
Before the nerf, if an account expired before the current training step had completed, the completion "occurred" because the real-world calendar marched on independently of the Eve servers, but there was no way for you to see the completion because you could not log into an inactive account.
Since the training step can't be started without being logged in and the benefit of the training completion can't be enjoyed without being logged in, and the wait for the completion date/time has nothing to do with anything happening in the servers, some of us take the view that the training step has been bought and paid for at the moment we click to start the training step.
So in the nerf of unsubbed training there was nothing to disable... it already worked independently of account status, independently of logging in, independently of the servers. Like a note written on a calendar, it was completely passive. No, there was nothing to disable... CCP had to write new code and run new processes to actively disable current training when an account expires. To accomplish the nerf, new work is now done by the servers at account expiration to undo the automatic calendar note stating when the training step would be considered complete.
Viewed this way, the nerf of unsubbed training actually steals value from us... value already bought and paid for before an account expires. This is my sig? |
Rasik Argimater
|
Posted - 2008.11.01 05:01:00 -
[5270]
Originally by: Rasik Argimater Viewed this way, the nerf of unsubbed training actually steals value from us... value already bought and paid for before an account expires.
To continue... is it within CCP's legitimate power to redefine training so that expiring accounts get their training stopped? Of course it is. CCP owns Eve and can redefine anything at all. They could nerf undocking and tell us we're just supposed to activate ships in stations and rotate them and admire the pretty designs. Or anything inbetween. Of course any change CCP makes can and will have consequences, and the manner in which they redefine game mechanics can and will have consequences.
We disagree with the nerf of unsubbed training; we don't claim CCP can't change their own game. We state our view that CCP should not have nerfed unsubbed training, and should not have done it in the manner they did. We have stated our reasons:
- Unsubbed training was a feature of the game for over five years.
- Unsubbed training was a user-friendly feature that earned good will for CCP.
- Rather than costing CCP anything, unsubbed training significantly improved the rate of reactivation of lapsed accounts. In other words, it made additional money for CCP.
- CCP has heavily promoted users to have multiple accounts (The Power of 2 and other incentives).
- In many cases, multiple accounts must be part-time, because not everyone can afford or chooses to afford n times the monthly price all through the year. Even if one intends to keep multiple accounts active at all times, stuff happens and realities change.
- Part-time accounts were practical to some degree because of unsubbed training.
- Accounts lapse for many more reasons than intentional lapses to take advantage of unsubbed training. Financial difficulties, vacations, military deployments, boarding school, job duties away from home, overseas job assignments, lack of time due to study or work demands... are just a few of the many, many reasons people allow accounts to expire temporarily.
- Anyone with a brain has always tried to schedule the longest meaningful training step available to them before an account expires, just as we do before game expansions, Patch Day, etc.
- Anyone whose account lapsed with a training step in progress looked forward with anticipation, even excitement, to reactivating and enjoying some new skill level. This was an important component of the addictive aspects of Eve.
- As long as we enjoyed Eve, we didn't resent the addictive aspects of the game mechanics.
- Unsubbed training was never an obstacle to implementation of the much-requested training queue. A training queue could easily be made active only while an account is active. An expired account could still "complete" the current training step, as has been the case for over five years.
- A training queue or other new feature cannot compensate for the loss of unsubbed training. See (7) above. Accounts lapse for many involuntary, real-life reasons. Without unsubbed training, those people are punished by the theft of something already bought and paid for, and have a much reduced motivation to reactivate.
- We don't understand why CCP would nerf an addictive but friendly feature that unquestionably improved their rate of reactivation of lapsed accounts, unless they mistakenly believed they could "force" such accounts to be active full time. All CCP can "force," though, is a reduction in the rate of reactivation and an increase in the complete loss of paying accounts.
- CCP handled the nerf exceptionally badly, evidently lying to us and then spinning it several completely different ways. Offending one's customers is not good business practice.
- We prefer to enjoy Eve and admire CCP, but CCP has made that difficult.
This is my sig? |
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Pheleus
Afk Masters
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Posted - 2008.11.01 06:23:00 -
[5271]
Still going strong!!
So why can we only train one skill per account?? with 3 character slots?
Money
No matter how much you have your dollar still isnt worth anything adn it isnt goign to help.
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Tivookz
Caldari IMPERIAL SENATE Pure.
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Posted - 2008.11.01 07:51:00 -
[5272]
Edited by: Tivookz on 01/11/2008 07:52:25
Originally by: Pheleus Still going strong!!
So why can we only train one skill per account?? with 3 character slots?
Money
No matter how much you have your dollar still isnt worth anything adn it isnt goign to help.
Exactly, which is why multiple training on one account will never ever happen because even if T0rfifrans was stupid enough to believe that nerfing ghost training would actually increase subscriptions (rofl and noob are the only words I can think of) he won't unnerf something that would over-night decrease the number of alt accounts by lets say 20-30%
The reason a skill queue haven't been implemented into the game is because as someone at CCP said: "We wan't people to log onto the game and play" which could also be the most stupid comment I've ever heard because they totally miss the point of a skill queue.
A skill queue would not be there to let players skill without logging on because we don't play EVE to skill our characters, we play whenever we have the chance to play because EVE is more than just skilling stuff.
It would be there so that hardcore players won't have to wake up at f**king 3am to change skills like I did one time when I was young and stupid.
Reinstating ghost training and adding a skill queue for those with active accounts would only bring revenue to CCP, not the other way around.
Tiv __________________________________________________
Hating Cash Craving Productions since oct 15th 2008 |
Tivookz
Caldari IMPERIAL SENATE Pure.
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Posted - 2008.11.01 07:56:00 -
[5273]
Edited by: Tivookz on 01/11/2008 08:02:04 Oh and I almost forgot: did someone monitor coldfront last night? I did.
Linkage
Around 3000-4000 less people logged on than there was last friday.
And this friday was strike friday.
That's roughly how many people we are talking about, not in the hundreds. __________________________________________________
Hating Cash Craving Productions since oct 15th 2008 |
ShR3DeR
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Posted - 2008.11.01 09:03:00 -
[5274]
hmmm so this is why 2 out of my 4 accounts stopped training.... been very inactive for the most part these last few months rl work school etc and set some long skills on 2 accounts let them go figure i would re-sub them when i have more time and money but i log in and notice a few mission hub systems went from 220+ to 120 or less hit the forums find this and well I'm not paying $40 to transfer my other account character's and do the roller coaster training so 2 less account's here. guess i could use the extra $ to buy another fps game or something. I must say though this is the most impeccable timing i have ever seen considering the worlds economic status ATM. It will be a revenue hit to ccp considering the $ being forked out for new hardware also. if the subscription cost goes up next to compensate the lost revenue from dropped accounts i would not be surprised.Sure hope someone with some decent accounting skills has done there math .Love the game done many things in it and have seen alot and tbh the re balancing and nurfing over time are tall tail signs of someones lack of experience.it also seems after a few new people where hired or promoted they have slowly been reworking certain aspects of the game to there personal liking or something have not put my finger on it but there needs to be a careful review of recent actions before ccp's greatness is the reason for its death. gl ccp
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kan han
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.11.01 11:21:00 -
[5275]
TBH, the very first thing that I did when I heard of the changes in training was to increase my trading slots. I wanna be able to full-put the market with as many "ghost" trading slots as possible to let them run over 90 days. This will let my army of alts generate so much revenue without me needing to pay for these 90 days any of my hard earned $$$.
Because the maximum length of market trading operations is 90 days this mostly overcomes the pitty possibilities that were there for training activies while giving the gametime extending a little pause.
I know this move is not an option for all those PvP-lers that are now a little degraded with the new Real Training (tm) feature, but let's face it: there is much more to let an "ghost" char create revenue successfully. Okay that might look unfair especially for new players (who do not have the benefits of the training we had for years as well), but well, no one said that Eve is a fair game. I feel it kinda wikinger-ish.
But there is one Idea I love most. And that is that CCP should make GTCs available in ISK (Iceland krona). Maybe some player in Iceland itself should go to court and force CCP to sell GTCs in the countries currency. I think Iceland isn't such a law-less country that enables a local located company to sell in some other countries currencies only. Getting GTCs for ISK (Iceland krona) would be really an option for not only the ones living in Iceland (or do only Devs play the game there????) but for the rest of us as well. This would even overcome my 15/15 Formula by immense numbers!
And don't forget: That would help the Icelandic state get some foreign currency for their dropping ISK. Since CCP is an Icelandic company, they would benefit of that again.
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BIind
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Posted - 2008.11.01 11:38:00 -
[5276]
Originally by: ShR3DeR Anyone else see the news about wow's gaming subscription?? its now the population of Ohio here in the U S Linkage Thats just disturbing and no i dont like it and never have played it never will..
That's partly because when you invite a friend now they can get exp 3x faster, you get a month free playtime etc. Kind of the opposite of what CCP has been doing.
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Kerfira
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Posted - 2008.11.01 11:52:00 -
[5277]
Originally by: Tivookz Edited by: Tivookz on 01/11/2008 08:02:04 Oh and I almost forgot: did someone monitor coldfront last night? I did.
Linkage
Around 3000-4000 less people logged on than there was last friday.
And this friday was strike friday.
That's roughly how many people we are talking about, not in the hundreds.
So you use less people logging in on Halloween friday as an argument that ghost training is killing the game?
Seriously, head off for a brew like a lot of people did yesterday *hint hint*
Originally by: CCP Wrangler EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
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Vix633
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Posted - 2008.11.01 12:40:00 -
[5278]
Edited by: Vix633 on 01/11/2008 12:40:30
Originally by: Kerfira
Originally by: Tivookz Edited by: Tivookz on 01/11/2008 08:02:04 Oh and I almost forgot: did someone monitor coldfront last night? I did.
Linkage
Around 3000-4000 less people logged on than there was last friday.
And this friday was strike friday.
That's roughly how many people we are talking about, not in the hundreds.
So you use less people logging in on Halloween friday as an argument that ghost training is killing the game?
Seriously, head off for a brew like a lot of people did yesterday *hint hint*
One that dwells under bridges alert
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Tivookz
Caldari IMPERIAL SENATE Pure.
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Posted - 2008.11.01 12:50:00 -
[5279]
Originally by: Vix633 Edited by: Vix633 on 01/11/2008 12:40:30
Originally by: Kerfira
Originally by: Tivookz Edited by: Tivookz on 01/11/2008 08:02:04 Oh and I almost forgot: did someone monitor coldfront last night? I did.
Linkage
Around 3000-4000 less people logged on than there was last friday.
And this friday was strike friday.
That's roughly how many people we are talking about, not in the hundreds.
So you use less people logging in on Halloween friday as an argument that ghost training is killing the game?
Seriously, head off for a brew like a lot of people did yesterday *hint hint*
One that dwells under bridges alert
Oh, well on that topic I can just give you a friendly FYI say that Halloween is celebrated tonight saturday the 1st and not on friday like in the states.
Nobody here parties on a damn friday, you're tired, you've just finished the daily gym routine and you just want to go to bed or play a game.
Tiv __________________________________________________
Hating Cash Craving Productions since oct 15th 2008 |
IR Scoutar
Caldari State War Academy
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Posted - 2008.11.01 13:24:00 -
[5280]
let me just open page 176 by stating
im borred of this topic and im borred of ccp now barring some unforseen event im outa here its been fun but its time to move on i guess
there are other things i can blow my money on no space pewpew mmo at the moment but i can always amuse myself with something else
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Wilma JugsJiggle
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Posted - 2008.11.01 13:30:00 -
[5281]
I hear ya, the words "exercise" and "futility" spring to mind right now.
I'm about spent, and I'll maybe stop in once in a while, but that's me more or less spent.
My plethora of accounts (most people would be astounded if they knew how many I had) won't be getting reactivated.
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Snn Kefro
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Posted - 2008.11.01 16:18:00 -
[5282]
yes yes, many friends and accounts will of course leave beacuse this was one of the few special features in this game to play it on a long term. i payed for many accounts over years and brought many friends into the game so probaly brought in ccp a few thausand euros. nowadays while many people are trying to save some cash for such an expensive, besides pvp a very boring game (for cash you gotta work work work, making same missions for ages or mining on belts, does not bring fun) seems to upset you, ccp, even at rising customercount. before i got eve i never thought to pay for a game permanently and probalby just because of this "not wanted" feature i kept playing it that long. "its over" how a good song of ELO would say it, and that probably for all those who dont want to support a capitalist company (wheres the fun, dont you remember? i liked the guy who mentioned the snowball launchers :D) who treat their customers badly, lie to them and make rather bad developing decisions.
saperating people. live on eve, since 15.10.2008...
thats an aspect i never thought about when i started the game, thought it would only get better, not worse. but many recent decisions were just bad and can never made good again. probably many many people dont know about it yet. they will be much more angry and offensive then in future. i hope you get bankrupt on this decision, or take it back with a big excuse. and dont forget about the one or other free day for all the "not wanted" downtimes i had since i started the game. yes, ages ago there was something of a speciality about a ccp customer. nowadays it seems all gone.
-hundrets of accounts especialy in the future :) no more free adds for the game, no more trial keys to my friends.
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Squirrrel
Gallente Squirrrel Industries
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Posted - 2008.11.01 16:44:00 -
[5283]
Originally by: Richard Aiel
Originally by: CCP Navigator
The thread content, I assume, is still the same.
LOL priceless. This is simply outrageous, you(devs) actually read this thread once in a while and laugh at us?!!
anyone else not laughing at their arrogance?
Wonder if theres a way to get yer account perminantly deleted? Im no longer interested in playing a game that these assh-oles make. Its sad too I was looking forward to World of Darkness but I wont be playing that either because of these egomaniacs
I agree. I won't touch that either, and like GOA, CCP have seemingly managed to alienate some of their future customers.
I'm going to end up better off financially because of the decision - I can now go off an play any of the games on the market, MMO or not.
CCP - Good luck . Chances are you won't be financially better off, and you are stuck with EvE.
I know which side of the fence I'd rather be.
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Chani Fedaykin
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Posted - 2008.11.01 17:06:00 -
[5284]
Originally by: Richard Aiel Read here: http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=912215&page=1
Where 90% of the ppl in the thread show that noone gives a sh-it anymore about this topic outside of this thread.
remove irrelevant posts from the topic and then try to verify that 90% of the posters in the thread actually say that the removal of ghost training is a good move
try to train your mathematics skill to at least lvl 1 before making statments like that :P
besides (as pointed out a lot of times already) its not only about the removal that makes ppl think about leaving / cancelling subs. get your facts right if you want to say anything, otherwise dont bother ... just an advise ... ranger I (just browse the last few pages) was a very good example :P |
Squirrrel
Gallente Squirrrel Industries
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Posted - 2008.11.01 21:32:00 -
[5285]
All this nonsense about DB loads. I bet there's more load from having unsubbed market orders and contracts than to keep one skill running until it completes.
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Richard Aiel
Caldari Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2008.11.01 22:24:00 -
[5286]
Edited by: Richard Aiel on 01/11/2008 22:26:18
Originally by: Chani Fedaykin
Originally by: Richard Aiel Read here: http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=912215&page=1
Where 90% of the ppl in the thread show that noone gives a sh-it anymore about this topic outside of this thread.
remove irrelevant posts from the topic and then try to verify that 90% of the posters in the thread actually say that the removal of ghost training is a good move
try to train your mathematics skill to at least lvl 1 before making statments like that :P
besides (as pointed out a lot of times already) its not only about the removal that makes ppl think about leaving / cancelling subs. get your facts right if you want to say anything, otherwise dont bother ... just an advise ... ranger I (just browse the last few pages) was a very good example :P
reread all the rest of my posts in this thread if yer gonna compare me to ranger I then go **** yerself. I am no CCP stooge. My ass is exit only kthx If that was actually meant as advice then i apologise but it felt like trolling. ------------------------------------------------ CCP you are your own worst enemy. ------------------------------------------------ |
Ramsfeld
BeachBoys
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Posted - 2008.11.01 23:22:00 -
[5287]
Ohh I see CCP find the way to "fix bug" call ghost training, hmm Im wonder can CCP also fix lag in fleet battles ?
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Chani Fedaykin
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Posted - 2008.11.01 23:38:00 -
[5288]
Originally by: Richard Aiel
Originally by: Chani Fedaykin ... remove irrelevant posts from the topic and then try to verify that 90% of the posters in the thread actually say that the removal of ghost training is a good move
try to train your mathematics skill to at least lvl 1 before making statments like that :P
besides (as pointed out a lot of times already) its not only about the removal that makes ppl think about leaving / cancelling subs. get your facts right if you want to say anything, otherwise dont bother ... just an advise ... ranger I (just browse the last few pages) was a very good example :P
reread all the rest of my posts in this thread if yer gonna compare me to ranger I then go **** yerself. I am no CCP stooge. My ass is exit only kthx If that was actually meant as advice then i apologise but it felt like trolling.
a) no point in becoming personal, i kept it in a decent manner too (at least i tried to) b) obviously i did not compare you to ranger 1 - i just pointed out, that not sticking to / ignoring facts/reasons can make you look quite stupid ... and i just mentioned ranger 1 as good example as what will/can happen in that case. apology accepted ^^ |
Orbius Prime
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.11.02 00:54:00 -
[5289]
Edited by: Orbius Prime on 02/11/2008 00:56:12 i'm just wondering how things realy are going for ccp (income wise) if it's still going great ( increasing) then well... alts are compensating for real players who are leaving... if it's going bad ( decreasing income) then maybe ccp should take it's conclusions and bring back the 90days-30 days and keep the ghost training as a "bug" -not intended piece of the game-
or if they realy wanne make it all up to their loyal customers, allow ghost training too... As that is the reason why busy working people come back to EvE after a hard RL time! No real time lost ingame, as you kept training that 40 day skill while fixing bigger issues (RL). That's why I came back after a month of "moving/getting internet connection sorted out".
in total... any well aware company would see the latest changes as full out bad as it kicks loyal and long time customers in the nuts! And frankly, those are the best customers there are! and those that you need!
[ TimeCards SAVES Money ] |
Candice Dice
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Posted - 2008.11.02 01:17:00 -
[5290]
Who cares if CCP reverses these bad decisions they have made as of late, simple fact is they have alienated old customers, new customers and future customers (word of mouth) and whether they reverse these or not the damage is done. I for one hope they become bankrupt, 5 year old MMO which has gone and done a "wow" with some Rogue back stabs on there longest serving customers and for that deserve nothing less than destitution.
My Alt Accounts...gone never to use power of 2 promo again My Main trasnfered to friend My Main account expiring very soon My long lasting impressions? Make sure everyone i know on forums, other MMO's I play KNOW how bad this game direction/dev team is going.
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Tasty Bit
Gallente UNITED STAR SYNDICATE
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Posted - 2008.11.02 01:57:00 -
[5291]
Originally by: Candice Dice My long lasting impressions? Make sure everyone i know on forums, other MMO's I play KNOW how bad this game direction/dev team is going.
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Relleh
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Posted - 2008.11.02 02:55:00 -
[5292]
wow, can't believe yall are still going at this one. Get over it, I am over it. Only people this will seriously affect are the character farmers.
Yeah, will be an inconvenience when my account lapses because i am as poor managing real life money as i am at managing my isk. But you know what, i will just start buying a year at a time on all my accounts, will save money in the long run that way. This isn't such an issue to do after those nice little tax returns you get once a year.
Now I just gotta focus on getting a new computer, as my current one can't run two accounts all that well. Think I melted my last one running all three in level 4 missions in different systems.
You guys should all be concentrating on finding out WHY THE ORCA TAKE EXHUMER V???? I mean come on, i gotta better toon already lined up for that, not my miner with exhumer V but no leadership skills.
Let me put my transport/CS pilot into the orca, not my main miner!!
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iXetus
e-PWN
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Posted - 2008.11.02 06:31:00 -
[5293]
Originally by: Relleh
You guys should all be concentrating on finding out WHY THE ORCA TAKE EXHUMER V???? I mean come on, i gotta better toon already lined up for that, not my miner with exhumer V but no leadership skills.
Let me put my transport/CS pilot into the orca, not my main miner!!
Why are you so surprised, don't u see that CCP started doing everything wrong lately? I almost think that they do it on purpose, or maybe some1 there is intentionally ruining the game, i can't see why though
CCP be aware that i screenshot all my forum posts now. |
Liu
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Posted - 2008.11.02 07:59:00 -
[5294]
i admit it, i am guilty. i have been using ghost training on my 3 accounts during the last 10 months. why? becuase i loved this game, and even though my current real life situation didnt allow me to play, i didnt want to fall back on training. thus, paying one month out of every two was acceptable to me, even though i didnt play at all.
first with the change of GTC, and now with the fix of the ghost training bug, the situation has changed. i've transfered two of my chars to the other account, and cancelled 2 accounts.
maths are very simple. CCP will get less money from me.
CCP, be aware, not only because some changes screw your customers big time, but mostly, cause your public relations department is really terrible. lying, banning, hiding under the carpet, locking threads, LOOSING threads, denying until it all blows up on your nose, blaming the messenger... there was a time when those things werent your standard behaviour.
Originally by: Apertotes tbh, boot.ini was overpowered and needed a nerf
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Iva Soreass
Black Plague.
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Posted - 2008.11.02 11:19:00 -
[5295]
Originally by: Liu i admit it, i am guilty. i have been using ghost training on my 3 accounts during the last 10 months. why? becuase i loved this game, and even though my current real life situation didnt allow me to play, i didnt want to fall back on training. thus, paying one month out of every two was acceptable to me, even though i didnt play at all.
first with the change of GTC, and now with the fix of the ghost training bug, the situation has changed. i've transfered two of my chars to the other account, and cancelled 2 accounts.
maths are very simple. CCP will get less money from me.
CCP, be aware, not only because some changes screw your customers big time, but mostly, cause your public relations department is really terrible. lying, banning, hiding under the carpet, locking threads, LOOSING threads, denying until it all blows up on your nose, blaming the messenger... there was a time when those things werent your standard behaviour.
2 things here is exacly why im so ****ed off with ccp at atm.
1st the gtc crap was a joke, getting rid of 90and 30 day gtcs was a big money motivated mistake.
2nd i have never used the 'ghost training' 'bugg' but the way you (CCP) handled the whole situation is beyond a joke and screams GREED.
I love this ****ing game but damm you guys make it so hard to stick around when you pull off crap like this.
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Khan Soriano
Beyond Divinity Inc
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Posted - 2008.11.02 12:26:00 -
[5296]
EVE is on the verge of something new, something different and its name is..... Star Wars Galaxies Effect...
Anybody want to buy a 38m character and lots of GTCs? ----- Arbitrator - Life & Death
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Brother Welcome
Amarr Suddenly Ninjas Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
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Posted - 2008.11.02 18:31:00 -
[5297]
So any official response yet? Or is the plan just to wait us out and trust the issue will be lost in collective amnesia?
Lamentably that's a tried-and-true method of corporate malfeasance.
-vk
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Chris Aluqah
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Posted - 2008.11.02 19:13:00 -
[5298]
this issue was too small to cause all this uproar, so the reasons are deeper and the next small issue will probably cause the same kind of uproar, minus the people that left this time.
I doubt eve will have a shortage of small issues, which is natural.
Sticking the head in the sand is a strategy, but let's not forget it leaves vital parts of the body in the open :p
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Squirrrel
Gallente Squirrrel Industries
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Posted - 2008.11.02 20:45:00 -
[5299]
I think the cancellations haven't hit CCP yet, so they don't know if it's just a threat until the game time runs out in less than 30, 60, 90 days time.
Tgey would also be hoping people will resub to try Quantum Rise, and that it will sway those who say they have had enough.
Risky game to play, unless either people haven't cancelled and they see that, or the numbers that have aren't really much of a bother to them at this point.
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Leica Stroganow
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Posted - 2008.11.02 22:04:00 -
[5300]
Rabblerabblerabble
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Squirrrel
Gallente Squirrrel Industries
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Posted - 2008.11.02 22:05:00 -
[5301]
Originally by: Leica Stroganow Rabblerabblerabble
Good point!
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Tivookz
Caldari IMPERIAL SENATE Pure.
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Posted - 2008.11.02 22:22:00 -
[5302]
Originally by: Squirrrel I think the cancellations haven't hit CCP yet, so they don't know if it's just a threat until the game time runs out in less than 30, 60, 90 days time.
Tgey would also be hoping people will resub to try Quantum Rise, and that it will sway those who say they have had enough.
Risky game to play, unless either people haven't cancelled and they see that, or the numbers that have aren't really much of a bother to them at this point.
Oh please, Quantum Rise is a large update at best, nothing worth resubbing for.
Besides, we didn't cancel our accounts because of lack of content.
Tiv __________________________________________________
Hating Cash Craving Productions since oct 15th 2008 |
Squirrrel
Gallente Squirrrel Industries
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Posted - 2008.11.02 22:30:00 -
[5303]
Originally by: Tivookz
Originally by: Squirrrel I think the cancellations haven't hit CCP yet, so they don't know if it's just a threat until the game time runs out in less than 30, 60, 90 days time.
Tgey would also be hoping people will resub to try Quantum Rise, and that it will sway those who say they have had enough.
Risky game to play, unless either people haven't cancelled and they see that, or the numbers that have aren't really much of a bother to them at this point.
Oh please, Quantum Rise is a large update at best, nothing worth resubbing for.
Besides, we didn't cancel our accounts because of lack of content.
Tiv
That's not how CCP tend view their free little patches.
They probably think people will rush back just to get the Orca.
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El Orenz
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Posted - 2008.11.02 23:02:00 -
[5304]
After taking a break in AoC and watch Failcom allienate their customers I didn't think you'd be just as stupid on your decisions. I wont quit, but it's time to seriously reduce the numbers of my accounts.
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Happatai
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Posted - 2008.11.03 00:31:00 -
[5305]
Ah well just canceled 2 of my accounts, it feels good
I wonder if CCP actually noticed any kind of serious income loss from this; I certainly hope so. I've got about a month left on this account, I'm not sure if I'm going to renew on this one either...
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Richard Aiel
Caldari Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2008.11.03 01:07:00 -
[5306]
Originally by: Brother Welcome So any official response yet? Or is the plan just to wait us out and trust the issue will be lost in collective amnesia?
Lamentably that's a tried-and-true method of corporate malfeasance.
-vk
the official response is f-uck you we're doing this if you like it or not. If you DONT like it, the door is that way. ------------------------------------------------ CCP you are your own worst enemy. ------------------------------------------------ |
Tivookz
Caldari IMPERIAL SENATE Pure.
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Posted - 2008.11.03 07:41:00 -
[5307]
Originally by: Richard Aiel
Originally by: Brother Welcome So any official response yet? Or is the plan just to wait us out and trust the issue will be lost in collective amnesia?
Lamentably that's a tried-and-true method of corporate malfeasance.
-vk
the official response is f-uck you we're doing this if you like it or not. If you DONT like it, the door is that way.
That's the problem with online based companies with no phone line and with no office to visit to show your dissatisfaction.
Our rage would be more real if they actually heard our voices but now we're nothing more than a couple of lines on the forum that can easily be ignored.
CCP have grown too big for their own good because if they treat us that disliked the removal of ghost-training no matter how many good arguments we have about it in this way then they will treat everyone this way sooner or later.
For example if you don't care about ghost-training then fine, don't. But remember that the day will come when they do something that ****es you off just like this ****ed us off to the point of unsubscribing but whatever you type here to complain about it will just fall on deaf ears and echo out like it never existed.
Tiv __________________________________________________
Hating Cash Craving Productions since oct 15th 2008 |
iXetus
e-PWN
|
Posted - 2008.11.03 08:58:00 -
[5308]
What if the only guys watching these forums are the ones that royally screwed up with this "bugfixing" and even if they understand in what deep **** are they, they're just afraid to lose their jobs, so they keep it secret from their bosses?
Maybe it would be a good idea to try and find at least some e-mail of some CCP boss, so we can show him the link to this thread?
CCP be aware that i screenshot all my forum posts now. |
Tivookz
Caldari IMPERIAL SENATE Pure.
|
Posted - 2008.11.03 09:16:00 -
[5309]
Originally by: iXetus What if the only guys watching these forums are the ones that royally screwed up with this "bugfixing" and even if they understand in what deep **** are they, they're just afraid to lose their jobs, so they keep it secret from their bosses?
Maybe it would be a good idea to try and find at least some e-mail of some CCP boss, so we can show him the link to this thread?
I think the message would become clearer if someone just printed out the whole topic and then shipped it all in a box to CCPs office or something.
Tiv __________________________________________________
Hating Cash Craving Productions since oct 15th 2008 |
Kersal
Replica Image
|
Posted - 2008.11.03 13:16:00 -
[5310]
I can't help but feel that if everyone in this thread that's threatening to leave actually does so then the Eve universe is going to become a lot less crowded. Their will be less competition for materials, less competition in the market place, and who knows what will happen to alliance held 0.0 space if swathes of members quit the game.
On the up side their will be less competition for materials, less competition in the market place and 0.0 blobs will be smaller helping to reduce lag. See the is a silver lining.
This is obviously a polarizing issue. Those who make use of this bug/feature feel betrayed by the change and the lack of any advance warning. Whereas those who don't use this bug/feature are either ambivalant to the change or are filling the forums with "Not before time!" posts.
This is not something that's going to go quietly into the night I feel.
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Benedic
The Aftermath
|
Posted - 2008.11.03 13:58:00 -
[5311]
Edited by: Benedic on 03/11/2008 13:58:25
Originally by: Kersal
I can't help but feel that if everyone in this thread that's threatening to leave actually does so then the Eve universe is going to become a lot less crowded. Their will be less competition for materials, less competition in the market place, and who knows what will happen to alliance held 0.0 space if swathes of members quit the game.
I have my doubts about active players quitting completely. If the game was fun to play ghost training wouldn't really be an issue for those people (although they may drop some alt accounts).
The large portion of accounts lost will be jaded vets, 3rd or 4th+ alt accounts, and people who were looking for an excuse to ragequit.
While these will be significant numbers (and really hurt CCCP's bottomline), it will most likely not have much of an impact on the number of people online at a given time.
We will see how well the decision to push people who pay to not play this game away works out.
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Grez
Minmatar Core Contingency
|
Posted - 2008.11.03 14:39:00 -
[5312]
How exactly is CCP ****ting on the customer?
If anything, we've had this freebie for 4 years now. We should thank them for giving it to us for that long. So what if it was called a feature - they want to change it and they have. You cannot blame them for wanting to make a bit more cash in this financially **** time we're in.
Grow up. --- Have a rawr on me. |
Richard Aiel
Caldari Caldari Provisions
|
Posted - 2008.11.03 14:42:00 -
[5313]
Originally by: Kersal
I can't help but feel that if everyone in this thread that's threatening to leave actually does so then the Eve universe is going to become a lot less crowded. Their will be less competition for materials, less competition in the market place, and who knows what will happen to alliance held 0.0 space if swathes of members quit the game.
On the up side their will be less competition for materials, less competition in the market place and 0.0 blobs will be smaller helping to reduce lag. See the is a silver lining.
I pointed this out some several pages back that maybe CCP forcing ppl out of the game by being ass-hats is how theyve decided to deal with the problem of lag ------------------------------------------------ CCP you are your own worst enemy. ------------------------------------------------ |
Richard Aiel
Caldari Caldari Provisions
|
Posted - 2008.11.03 14:44:00 -
[5314]
Originally by: Grez How exactly is CCP ****ting on the customer?
If anything, we've had this freebie for 4 years now. We should thank them for giving it to us for that long. So what if it was called a feature - they want to change it and they have. You cannot blame them for wanting to make a bit more cash in this financially **** time we're in.
Grow up.
reading comprehension ftl its not necessarily the removal of the "bug" that ****ed everyone off. That was the icing. It was the LYING that ****ed everyone off. ------------------------------------------------ CCP you are your own worst enemy. ------------------------------------------------ |
Ostr0mir
Minmatar Never Knows Best
|
Posted - 2008.11.03 14:53:00 -
[5315]
- 2 accounts here, and this main one will be paid via ISK only until it expires.
I am sick and tired of you, your lies and greed, CCP, tired of my MMORPG addiction and tired of useless people flying around. I feel very sorry for my wasted year with you.
Hope you will not have a chance to learn from this lesson your customers have taught you, because you'll be going bankrupt as the world economic crisis unfolds and your playerbase will be cutting it's expenses down.
BYE!
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sxndy
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.11.03 15:16:00 -
[5316]
I smell bull****.
Truth I can deal with and accepted, but blatantly lying by calling something a bug when it was proclamed as a feature does not give me confidence in CCP, I couldnÆt care less if you try to squeeze a few extra bucks outa players but be truthful, life is hard enough without the people that develop your favourite game lie to you.
I DO NOT PAY OVER ú300.00 PER YEAR TO BE LIED TO
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oilio
Caldari State War Academy
|
Posted - 2008.11.03 16:04:00 -
[5317]
Originally by: sxndy I smell bull****.
Well yes. You smell what's there.
Originally by: sxndy I DO NOT PAY OVER ú300.00 PER YEAR TO BE LIED TO
Actually, you do. They slimed and lied about their reasons for getting rid of 30 day and 90 day GTCs... and then pricing the "new, industry-standard" 60 day GTCs at almost the same price that the 90 day cards used to be.
They sure as hell lied about the whole "Ghost Training" thing. The very fact that they thought no-one would see through those lies shows how STUPID they think their paying customers are. They must assume we're all kids or something... like "daddy" pays for our accounts, so no-one will care when they screw us over.
Anyway, you do pay over ú300 to be lied to. Your subscriptions pay the liars wages and vindicate their contempt for their customers.
The only protest CCP will understand is a financial one. Cancel your subscription for a while - that's the ONLY thing these guys will understand.
Right now, they're looking at the cancelled subscriptions and saying "Ha! they'll be back. We can do what we like and they'll still throw money at us!"
Stop throwing money at them, and see how smug they are then. |
DonHel
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Posted - 2008.11.03 16:14:00 -
[5318]
Hello ccp, i would like to formally mention that YOU SUCK. That 'BUG" that you used to praise as a feature is what brought me back, theres been times that i was broke as hell, couldnt play but knowing i was still training, 3 weeks to a month later i could come back and not be behind.. now i'm in a spot, account expires next week.. no money, no skill train while inactive so.............. F U, minus one " used to be great fan" but now dispises your money hungry asses hmmmm, i wonder how wow is iv'e been told to play it, maybe i should give them my money
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Geanos
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Posted - 2008.11.03 16:30:00 -
[5319]
Edited by: Geanos on 03/11/2008 16:31:57
Originally by: Benedic I have my doubts about active players quitting completely.
Well, i'm one that's gonna do just that, with 2 accounts. I was already bored with EVE and this whole thing acted like a switch.
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Erim Solfara
Amarr House of Solfara
|
Posted - 2008.11.03 17:37:00 -
[5320]
Originally by: Grez How exactly is CCP ****ting on the customer?
If anything, we've had this freebie for 4 years now. We should thank them for giving it to us for that long. So what if it was called a feature - they want to change it and they have. You cannot blame them for wanting to make a bit more cash in this financially **** time we're in.
Grow up.
There was a wonderful blog reassuring everyone that CCP was sufficiently isolated from the finanical crisis less than a week (I think) before they brought out this money-grabbing change.
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Skylar Vodkabar
|
Posted - 2008.11.03 17:39:00 -
[5321]
For the past year i've been telling my brothers/cousins to play Eve because you could still train during down times and inactive times, which is useful for being deployed or in training.
2 Brothers-USAF aircraft mechanic, Army medic 3 Cousins-USAF Mechanical Engineer, and free college something
But after their Trial Periods ended, they did not feel like paying $35 dollars for a game they rarely play and have no incentive to come back to.
Thank you CCP for making me own them in COD4 and GRAW2.
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Razzlee
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Posted - 2008.11.03 17:40:00 -
[5322]
Edited by: Razzlee on 03/11/2008 17:42:33
Originally by: Grez How exactly is CCP ****ting on the customer?
If anything, we've had this freebie for 4 years now. We should thank them for giving it to us for that long. So what if it was called a feature - they want to change it and they have. You cannot blame them for wanting to make a bit more cash in this financially **** time we're in.
Grow up.
You know, you might want to try reading at least a few pages of this thread before making an idiotic statement such as this. This move is going to do the exact opposite of what they intended. It's going to cost them LOTS of cash.
There will be large number of individuals never reactivating alt accounts that at least used to be active 6+ months out of the year.(What is better, an account that is active and paying 7 or 8 months out of the year or one that is active 0 months out of the year?)
In addition to what is likely going to be thousands of alt accounts that remain inactive forever, you are going to have a fair number of individuals who will quit the game outright over this. This number will be far smaller than the alt accounts(players 4,5,6th accounts,etc) who trim down to one or two accounts. You will also lose the players who gave the game a break but were pulled back in because of the completion of a long skill and wanting to play with the new toys that skill enabled. For those taking a break as well, it was always nice knowing that a skill was training. It made coming back easier because you knew you did not fall behind while you were away.
In the end, CCP will have thousands of fewer accounts active at any one time on average than they did before this decision. Just give it a few months time for current paid subscriptions to expire and for players to consolidate 2 or 3 alt accounts onto one.
Once CCP realizes that they miscalculated and instead of gaining subscriptions by removing a popular feature that they instead lost thousands, they will back pedal. They won't come to that realization for a few months though. By then, it will probably be too late.
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Komiliya Jenius
|
Posted - 2008.11.03 17:46:00 -
[5323]
If CCP needed monies, they should of released the Sisters of Eve Cruisers/Relief ships.
For $30/$70, you get a new faction ship and 10% of profits goes to real life humanitarian organizations.
So CCP gets monies and everyone is happy.
But the Financial CEO recently got the BeanCounter Implant, so they said "Limit ETC to 60 day and charge for almost 90 day, just give an excuse that we aim to industry standards!"
CCP sure likes to play like the big boys.
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Razzlee
|
Posted - 2008.11.03 17:49:00 -
[5324]
Originally by: Komiliya Jenius If CCP needed monies, they should of released the Sisters of Eve Cruisers/Relief ships.
For $30/$70, you get a new faction ship and 10% of profits goes to real life humanitarian organizations.
So CCP gets monies and everyone is happy.
But the Financial CEO recently got the BeanCounter Implant, so they said "Limit ETC to 60 day and charge for almost 90 day, just give an excuse that we aim to industry standards!"
CCP sure likes to play like the big boys.
Funny thing there. Their aim is a bit off. Their 60 day cards are the most expensive in the industry.
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Komiliya Jenius
|
Posted - 2008.11.03 17:52:00 -
[5325]
Indeed, most MMO 60 day subs are 29.99.
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Tasty Bit
Gallente UNITED STAR SYNDICATE
|
Posted - 2008.11.03 18:02:00 -
[5326]
Originally by: Razzlee Edited by: Razzlee on 03/11/2008 17:47:03
Originally by: Grez How exactly is CCP ****ting on the customer?
If anything, we've had this freebie for 4 years now. We should thank them for giving it to us for that long. So what if it was called a feature - they want to change it and they have. You cannot blame them for wanting to make a bit more cash in this financially **** time we're in.
Grow up.
You know, you might want to try reading at least a few pages of this thread before making an idiotic statement such as this. This move is going to do the exact opposite of what they intended. It's going to cost them LOTS of cash.
There will be large number of individuals never reactivating alt accounts that at least used to be active 6+ months out of the year.(What is better, an account that is active and paying 7 or 8 months out of the year or one that is active 0 months out of the year?) .
Crux. The. Matter. Of.
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Squirrrel
Gallente Squirrrel Industries
|
Posted - 2008.11.03 18:21:00 -
[5327]
Originally by: Tivookz
I think the message would become clearer if someone just printed out the whole topic and then shipped it all in a box to CCPs office or something.
Although a waste of paper - I would love that to happen.
Dump it on stage during fanfest.
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DonHel
|
Posted - 2008.11.03 20:02:00 -
[5328]
good luck trying to fix your mistake, you just f'ed eve up. almost done giving away my **** to in game friends, then i'm out... was fun for a while, but you guys are ruining it..
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Zeppi
|
Posted - 2008.11.03 20:24:00 -
[5329]
177 pages long. Think ccp are reading this? i highly doubt it. Back in 2002-04 developers used to listen and ASK players what they wanted now ccp changes it just like Sony does. Eve will end up becoming another failboat like SWG.
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Noxic
|
Posted - 2008.11.03 20:27:00 -
[5330]
And to put the boot in one more time, id like to mention this one last thing. If your attending fanfest please please please please please dump the entire transcript in STONE on whoever is responsible for this epic fail. all 5300 replies please.
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Squirrrel
Gallente Squirrrel Industries
|
Posted - 2008.11.03 20:43:00 -
[5331]
Originally by: Noxic And to put the boot in one more time, id like to mention this one last thing. If your attending fanfest please please please please please dump the entire transcript in STONE on whoever is responsible for this epic fail. all 5300 replies please.
And the 28 that aren't present, just for good measure.
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Chani Fedaykin
|
Posted - 2008.11.03 21:54:00 -
[5332]
Originally by: Squirrrel ... And the 28 that aren't present, just for good measure.
...and the 49 pages of the original (locked) thread |
Darkeen
Gallente
|
Posted - 2008.11.03 22:53:00 -
[5333]
Originally by: Ostr0mir - 2 accounts here, and this main one will be paid via ISK only until it expires.
I am sick and tired of you, your lies and greed, CCP, tired of my MMORPG addiction and tired of useless people flying around. I feel very sorry for my wasted year with you.
Hope you will not have a chance to learn from this lesson your customers have taught you, because you'll be going bankrupt as the world economic crisis unfolds and your playerbase will be cutting it's expenses down.
BYE!
Can I have your stuff?
Regards,
Jason Brisbane
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Darkeen
Gallente
|
Posted - 2008.11.03 22:54:00 -
[5334]
Originally by: DonHel Hello ccp, i would like to formally mention that YOU SUCK. That 'BUG" that you used to praise as a feature is what brought me back, theres been times that i was broke as hell, couldnt play but knowing i was still training, 3 weeks to a month later i could come back and not be behind.. now i'm in a spot, account expires next week.. no money, no skill train while inactive so.............. F U, minus one " used to be great fan" but now dispises your money hungry asses hmmmm, i wonder how wow is iv'e been told to play it, maybe i should give them my money
Can I have your stuff? Regards,
Jason Brisbane
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Darkeen
Gallente
|
Posted - 2008.11.03 22:55:00 -
[5335]
Originally by: Geanos Edited by: Geanos on 03/11/2008 16:31:57
Originally by: Benedic I have my doubts about active players quitting completely.
Well, i'm one that's gonna do just that, with 2 accounts. I was already bored with EVE and this whole thing acted like a switch.
Can I have your stuff? Regards,
Jason Brisbane
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Darkeen
Gallente
|
Posted - 2008.11.03 22:57:00 -
[5336]
Hello,
Anyone who wants to quit due to this change in Eve, give me your stuff. I'll put it in GSC's/Station containers. if you want to come back, I'll give it back toyou.
Of course I'll use it to invest and gain more Isk but you can have your stuff back if you really want to come back.
Regards,
Jason Brisbane
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Gorek Loc
Etherware Heavy Engineering
|
Posted - 2008.11.03 23:47:00 -
[5337]
Originally by: Darkeen Can I have your stuff?
Originally by: Darkeen Can I have your stuff?
Originally by: Darkeen Can I have your stuff?
Having fun trolling with your alt on your secondary account? The very least you can do is post with your main, since you are begging for free stuff...
But then again, you are trying to use the same methods as CCCP, trying to change subject by posting a lot of crap...
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Tradionis
|
Posted - 2008.11.04 00:17:00 -
[5338]
This is really sad and you will loose or at least **** off your most loyal (or most addicted) customer base. It is usually people that were really dedicated to Eve that had more than one account. And like someone already said, they have to pay eventually anyway when their skill comes to an end. The idea of having your character advance was one the most unique features of Eve, it kept me coming back to the game after I decided to stop playing cause I simply wanted to experience that newly learned "ghost" skill. Now, nothing will change from the moment I quit so no incentive to come back to the game. Thank you for helping me end my addiction. In my opinion, bad business decision and it might just be the beginning of an end for Eve. After all, who wants to fly around in a half empty universe. It is all the characters that make it special, ghosted or not.
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Tasty Bit
Gallente UNITED STAR SYNDICATE
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Posted - 2008.11.04 00:24:00 -
[5339]
Originally by: Darkeen Hello,
Anyone who wants to quit due to this change in Eve, give me your stuff. I'll put it in GSC's/Station containers. if you want to come back, I'll give it back toyou.
Of course I'll use it to invest and gain more Isk but you can have your stuff back if you really want to come back.
WTB 1 block feature for the forums.
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Clarissa Winterborn
|
Posted - 2008.11.04 00:28:00 -
[5340]
Thought I'd record my prediction here so that it can be date/time stamped for posterity.
The next move by CCP to try and gouge extra money from us to fund their vampire MMO is going to be to raise the fee for transferring characters. You heard it here first.
With all the people out there consolidating alt accounts now due to the training change, this move will be seen by the brighter lights at CCP as a way to cash in extra revenue while the customers reduce the number of accounts they play dramatically.
Perhaps they will even rationalize that it might dissuade the occasional player from consolidating accounts and keep the account open long term.
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Lucas Avignon
Avignon Associates Inc.
|
Posted - 2008.11.04 05:25:00 -
[5341]
Originally by: Clarissa Winterborn Thought I'd record my prediction here so that it can be date/time stamped for posterity.
The next move by CCP to try and gouge extra money from us to fund their vampire MMO is going to be to raise the fee for transferring characters. You heard it here first.
With all the people out there consolidating alt accounts now due to the training change, this move will be seen by the brighter lights at CCP as a way to cash in extra revenue while the customers reduce the number of accounts they play dramatically.
Perhaps they will even rationalize that it might dissuade the occasional player from consolidating accounts and keep the account open long term.
I'm sure they have looked at that as an option, on a side note they are getting some nice money from character transfers but as it stands from looking at online stats, they are down quite a bit. If we look at this weeks highest which is over 5k less than the record last March and no one can say it's just the summer effect as we are now in November. If you also take into account the fact that most of the people that are going to quit are still in the middle of their subscriptions, 2009 could be the most lag free year in Eve's history
Originally by: CCP Prism X Yeah, and while we're at it we can create a controlled environment around account hacking and credit card fraud and all the other EULA breaches..
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Richard Aiel
Caldari Caldari Provisions
|
Posted - 2008.11.04 06:03:00 -
[5342]
anyone else just waitin for the *click* from CCP on this thread? ------------------------------------------------ CCP you are your own worst enemy. ------------------------------------------------ |
Shiu
|
Posted - 2008.11.04 09:01:00 -
[5343]
Seriously, get over it. The current financial crisis has hit everyone, even CCP. Im surprised this change wasnt announced earlier. They did indeed screw up when they said it was a bug, but tbh I dont blame them for making this decision with the current state the world economy is in.
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Rasik Argimater
|
Posted - 2008.11.04 09:05:00 -
[5344]
Originally by: Richard Aiel anyone else just waitin for the *click* from CCP on this thread?
I doesn't matter. The Eve Forums are mirrored elsewhere, including deleted posts. And if they make it difficult or impossible for us to voice our opinions here, someone will start up a ccpsucks board and they will have no control whatsoever over posts there.
Originally by: Clarissa Winterborn The next move by CCP to try and gouge extra money from us to fund their vampire MMO is going to be to raise the fee for transferring characters.
Char transfer is already too expensive. For me, declining interest in Eve also means reduced desire to consolidate remaining chars and pay CCP for the privilege. I'd rather leave all my accounts as they are, just mostly inactive.
If we conclude from the unsubbed training fiasco that CCP have forgotten why they implemented addictive features, it's likely we'll see some other self-destructive policy changes, which might include:
- No training while not logged in
- Removal of inactive chars and stuff long before 6 months
- Increase in effective subscription price
- Increase of minimum sub term from 30 days on CC to 60 days
- Reactivation fee or longer minimum reactivation term
- Longer initial subscription term, say 3 months or 6 months
- Charge for forum posts, either by subscription or by the post
The clueless suits and beancounters could view each of the aforementioned as a revenue producer and be blind to the inevitable effect each would have: a reduction in the active subscriber base.
They could give reasons such as:
(1) We want users to play the game, not log in for 20 seconds to start a new training step. Why should we let you train for free, so to speak? Besides, this was a bug we've been meaning to fix for five years.
(2) Why should we store your char and stuff for free when you're not paying us? If you reactivate after we've removed your char and stuff, for a modest $50 fee we can restore them from a backup.
(3) We're not making enough. To keep the game going we have to charge more.
(4) We want to discourage revolving-door subscriptions. When you subscribe, it has to be for a certain minimum term.
(5) If you let your account lapse we feel it's only fair to charge you a fee to reactivate your account. If you don't want to pay the fee, don't let your account expire.
(6) When you first subscribe or reactivate your account, you have to commit to a certain time or we're not interested in having you. After you serve out that probationary term you can renew for shorter terms.
(7) To cut down on frivolous forum posts it will now cost you $10/year for the privilege of posting on the Eve Forums. Or maybe 10 cents per post. We haven't made up our minds which will generate the most new revenue. Either way, it is non-refundable if you get banned from the Forums.
If they were to do any of these things it would further help ppl break the cycle of game addiction. The unsubbed training fiasco has broken my addiction to Eve and I feel much better for it. I also have more time for things like, y'know, RL work and RL family. This is my sig? |
Fawziyyah
|
Posted - 2008.11.04 11:18:00 -
[5345]
It seams that 30 days GTC will be back according with the new expantion features...
Quote "ETC Secure Trading Evolved A completely new in-game system that allows you to trade 30 day game time tokens for ISK, the in-game currency, with other players via the EVE market. CCP's revolutionary approach to enabling anyone to play EVE for a bit of elbow grease! "
Quantum rise features
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Caryna
Caldari
|
Posted - 2008.11.04 11:21:00 -
[5346]
Edited by: Caryna on 04/11/2008 11:22:04 from the press release :
The introduction of In-game Subscription Services. You can now convert your 60-day EVE Time Codes (ETCs) into two 30-day items in game. These ô30-Day PilotÆs Licensesö can be traded freely through all regular means (via market or contract or directly between players) and can be activated at any time. This feature will be available on November 11th or shortly thereafter
... NOT returning of the 30 D GTC
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Christine Cormorante
Gallente Warped Mining
|
Posted - 2008.11.04 11:27:00 -
[5347]
Originally by: Shiu Seriously, get over it. The current financial crisis has hit everyone, even CCP. Im surprised this change wasnt announced earlier. They did indeed screw up when they said it was a bug, but tbh I dont blame them for making this decision with the current state the world economy is in.
You must have missed CCP touting that the economic crisis was having no effect on thier bottom line, just 2 short weeks prior to this change. Shame really. Perhaps if it were, we'd start seeing incentives worth paying for to stick around.
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Shiu
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Posted - 2008.11.04 11:41:00 -
[5348]
Originally by: Christine Cormorante
Originally by: Shiu Seriously, get over it. The current financial crisis has hit everyone, even CCP. Im surprised this change wasnt announced earlier. They did indeed screw up when they said it was a bug, but tbh I dont blame them for making this decision with the current state the world economy is in.
You must have missed CCP touting that the economic crisis was having no effect on thier bottom line, just 2 short weeks prior to this change. Shame really. Perhaps if it were, we'd start seeing incentives worth paying for to stick around.
Im absolutely certain that it affects CCP, if not directly, then indirectly. If not already, this is a precaution to make sure it wont destroy CCP in the near future. I really see no harm in doing what they have done by disabling ghost training, and I do have more than one account active myself, so it affects me as well. If you like playing EVE, thats an incentive to stick around really ;)
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Rasik Argimater
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Posted - 2008.11.04 11:41:00 -
[5349]
Originally by: Shiu Seriously, get over it. The current financial crisis has hit everyone, even CCP. Im surprised this change wasnt announced earlier. They did indeed screw up when they said it was a bug, but tbh I dont blame them for making this decision with the current state the world economy is in.
So you think that nerfing unsubbed training will increase CCP's revenue? What are you smoking? It should be obvious that it reduces the attraction of reactivating lapsed accounts, which mostly lapse for personal reasons having nothing to do with a desire to train a character while not paying a sub.
So you think that in difficult economic times it's smart to reduce the attraction of the game and reduce the numbers of paid subscribers and actively online subscribers?
Gee, I think they should hire you as CEO or CFO. You'd fit right in. This is my sig? |
Tasty Bit
Gallente UNITED STAR SYNDICATE
|
Posted - 2008.11.04 12:50:00 -
[5350]
Originally by: Richard Aiel anyone else just waitin for the *click* from CCP on this thread?
I predict they'll let it go to page 199, and hit the button.
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Zebba
Gallente The Phoenix Rising
|
Posted - 2008.11.04 13:47:00 -
[5351]
Wow.... I never thought I would want to write anything in this forum.
Well, today a friend dropped me a line: I got a problem... and he told me his skill training, his ghost training as it is named has stopped. So we did some research and found this forum post.
i understand the various reasons CCP had to this in place and in some way I even agree with their reasons.
But there is one thing I do not agree with: the way to pass this information to people that did ghost training. There was a newsletter on the 16th of October, three days after the announcement, but there was no hint about this thing. How many people reactivate their account to find out what changed? You posted it in the section that is only accessable for active accounts, great job. You posted it in the forums... well, how many inactive people take a look at the forums?
As stated before: I do unterstand your reasons but I do not like the way you put it in place.
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Eniy Oh
Gallente United Systems Navy Unitary Enterprises
|
Posted - 2008.11.04 15:06:00 -
[5352]
Edited by: Eniy Oh on 04/11/2008 15:07:26
Quote:
ETC Secure Trading Evolved A completely new in-game system that allows you to trade 30 day game time tokens for ISK, the in-game currency, with other players via the EVE market. CCP's revolutionary approach to enabling anyone to play EVE for a bit of elbow grease!
Coming Nov 11. Isn't it interesting to debate how this affects the loss of Ghost Training?
Ofc people would still have to buy 60-day timecards "in the real world", but the GTC-traders can now finally sell their stuff through a decent system in-game, and for them GTC-consumers out there (including me) it'd mean we ONCE AGAIN have the oppurtunity to pay for just 30 days of playtime, which would be cheaper than buying 60 days of playtime. In a way, by an enormous work-around, 30 day GTC's are back, don't you think?
Also, a move like this, coupled with the millions CCP is gonna invest in new faster servers (which they really don't have to do but it seems they do listen to the people complaining about lag and yes stuff like this does take years to implement), it all DOES give me the idea we're dealing with an evil company who's only interested in taking money off the players, while NOT giving any value back whatsoever, right....... <-- add tech 2 sarcasm here.
CCP screwed up the announcement of Ghost Training. I don't think anyone could deny that. But by no means is the product they are making and expanding just as flawed.
Just my .02 iskies. --- The one whose ship names don't pass the sanity test while the rest of him is rather sane |
Shiu
|
Posted - 2008.11.04 15:37:00 -
[5353]
Originally by: Rasik Argimater
Originally by: Shiu Seriously, get over it. The current financial crisis has hit everyone, even CCP. Im surprised this change wasnt announced earlier. They did indeed screw up when they said it was a bug, but tbh I dont blame them for making this decision with the current state the world economy is in.
So you think that nerfing unsubbed training will increase CCP's revenue? What are you smoking? It should be obvious that it reduces the attraction of reactivating lapsed accounts, which mostly lapse for personal reasons having nothing to do with a desire to train a character while not paying a sub.
So you think that in difficult economic times it's smart to reduce the attraction of the game and reduce the numbers of paid subscribers and actively online subscribers?
Gee, I think they should hire you as CEO or CFO. You'd fit right in.
Sarcasm doesnt work very well on the internet. If you want to spew bile be my guest, Im only stating the obvious, if people start to abuse it too much, ofcourse CCP will have to change it, dont be so naive thinking it wont spread like wildfire, and then CCP will be in real trouble.
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Squirrrel
Gallente Squirrrel Industries
|
Posted - 2008.11.04 17:20:00 -
[5354]
Originally by: Tasty Bit
Originally by: Richard Aiel anyone else just waitin for the *click* from CCP on this thread?
I predict they'll let it go to page 199, and hit the button.
They might even simply post: LAST!
...and then lock the thread for a few days before deleting it.
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Wanfeng
|
Posted - 2008.11.04 23:13:00 -
[5355]
Some questions.
Who is buying all the gtc's that go for isk within the ccp gtc trade system? do they control ccp? :)
Those who have enough time to play and gather money for their gtc dealers probably dont care about the new rules of the eve universe. Do they know who they're dealing with? :D
What happened to the server graph?
Are 60 day skills reasonable? :D
Are 60 day gtc's reasonable?
What if they manipulate the server graph? :>
Wheres my brain??? lost in eve...
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Razzlee
|
Posted - 2008.11.04 23:46:00 -
[5356]
Edited by: Razzlee on 04/11/2008 23:52:23
Originally by: Shiu
Originally by: Rasik Argimater
Originally by: Shiu Seriously, get over it. The current financial crisis has hit everyone, even CCP. Im surprised this change wasnt announced earlier. They did indeed screw up when they said it was a bug, but tbh I dont blame them for making this decision with the current state the world economy is in.
So you think that nerfing unsubbed training will increase CCP's revenue? What are you smoking? It should be obvious that it reduces the attraction of reactivating lapsed accounts, which mostly lapse for personal reasons having nothing to do with a desire to train a character while not paying a sub.
So you think that in difficult economic times it's smart to reduce the attraction of the game and reduce the numbers of paid subscribers and actively online subscribers?
Gee, I think they should hire you as CEO or CFO. You'd fit right in.
Sarcasm doesnt work very well on the internet. If you want to spew bile be my guest, Im only stating the obvious, if people start to abuse it too much, ofcourse CCP will have to change it, dont be so naive thinking it wont spread like wildfire, and then CCP will be in real trouble.
Your posts on this page show you don't grasp the point of the 177 pages worth of posts before it. CCP's motivation to do this was to make more money. They miscalculated. It will cost them thousands of accounts along with hundreds of thousands of dollars in lost revenue.
They won't acknowledge that mistake just yet because they still think they are right. There hasn't been enough time yet for the full force of this to impact the number of active subscriptions. Once the full force of this hits,(prepaid accounts finally expire from those who have decided to quit, old accounts never reactivated again, people with 6 or 7 accounts dropping down to 1 or 2, etc), they will see their active subscriptions plummet and they will be in panic mode to reverse this.
That won't happen for a few months yet though. For now, I'm sure CCP just thinks these nearly 6,000 posts are just hot air on the part of the players and we don't mean what we are saying.(we do CCP...we really do)
The average player who took advantage of ghost training still had the account active for the majority of the year. CCP is now forcing them to choose between being subscribed for 12 months out of year if the wish to continue their training verses 0 months out of the year. There is no middle ground any longer. Many who run multiple accounts, like myself who ran 10, are going to start shutting accounts down and consolidating others. When CCP forces a player to choose between 12 months of activity or 0, most are going to choose 0.
For the fanboys like you, don't worry, this affects you too. In about a year when the downward spiral of subscriptions has picked up force, this game isn't going to be nearly as fun for anyone when the number of players logging on and playing begins to show a noticeable drop.
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Christine Cormorante
Gallente Warped Mining
|
Posted - 2008.11.05 02:21:00 -
[5357]
Originally by: Razzlee In about a year when the downward spiral of subscriptions has picked up force, this game isn't going to be nearly as fun for anyone when the number of players logging on and playing begins to show a noticeable drop.
It won't take that long. Word of mouth goes quite far in the MMO industry. Not to mention the recent release of Warhammer, the upcoming WoW expansion in a couple of weeks, the immenent arrival of Star Trek Online, Infinity Online, and the ever-so-close launch of JumpGate Evolution. Not only will Eve have all that to contend with, but it will finally have the direct competition (other space based games) it needs to surely humble even the most arrongant of CCP employees. A humbling that is 5 years past due.
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kan han
Gallente
|
Posted - 2008.11.05 07:07:00 -
[5358]
I am content with the upcomming competition in space games MMOs and therefore hopefully there will be an alternative or second path to go as player. More choice is often the better choice.
But beside this I run across the new feature to split 60 days gtcs in ingame-ISK-sellable 30 day gtcs. And then my mind made click. This perfectly explains why CCP changed the unsubbed traning feature and was in very hurry to "fix" the "bug".
Quote: With this new approach, you can take your run of the mill ETC code and enter it in-game through the escape menu, converting it into two in-game items called "30 Day Pilot's License Extension (PLEX)". You can then put them directly on to the market[...]
Source
From the day the "new feature" of 30 day ingame gtcs would have been re-introduced with this little quantum rising peu a peu, the change in GTCs period earlier this year would have run senseless. So there was the simple need for CCP to end unsubbed training before this feature has been applied. Doesn't this make sense? I guess that simple it is. It also explains why they were in such a hurry to make the change - beside the nice "dreamed of" benefit in times of the financial crisis CCP personell has already confirmed.
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Xavier Holtzman
Caldari Provisions
|
Posted - 2008.11.05 07:41:00 -
[5359]
Well, this will probably be my last post here as my subscription expires in a couple days. I hope ya'll keep posting here and keep this thread alive (as long as ccp doesn't blatantly delete it, which is what I've come to expect). I'd hate to see this thread get buried a few weeks from now. Its too bad. This was one of the coolest games I've played. Oh well. I'm looking forward to checking out Jumpgate, and especially Champions when that comes out next year. In the meantime I'll be playing City of Heroes and Warhammer. Maybe I'll cya'll in another land..... -=Xavier Holtzman=- "I'm in love with a malicious intent." |
Rasik Argimater
|
Posted - 2008.11.05 08:07:00 -
[5360]
I'm down another 2 accounts... 7 expired, only 2 left alive. Since all nine were active before the unsubbed training nerf, that's $1,260 less for CCP on an annualized basis. And I feel quite refreshed since the nerf helped break my obsessive-compulsive focus on keeping training going. I have more time for RL work and family, too. This is my sig? |
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Rramar Claime
Amarr Task Force Zener Atlas Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.11.05 09:33:00 -
[5361]
Originally by: Rasik Argimater I'm down another 2 accounts... 7 expired, only 2 left alive. Since all nine were active before the unsubbed training nerf, that's $1,260 less for CCP on an annualized basis. And I feel quite refreshed since the nerf helped break my obsessive-compulsive focus on keeping training going. I have more time for RL work and family, too.
Aint CCP great? They help you make your life better!
"I cherish the memories of a question my grandson asked me the other day, when he said; 'Grandpa, were you a hero in the war?' Grandpa said, 'No, but I served in a company of heroes." |
Orbius Prime
Gallente
|
Posted - 2008.11.05 12:44:00 -
[5362]
Welcome to the "dark age" [Buy cheap! TimeCards SAVES Money ] |
Komiliya Jenius
|
Posted - 2008.11.05 14:45:00 -
[5363]
Edited by: Komiliya Jenius on 05/11/2008 14:49:46 Nice countermove CCP, charge $35 for 60 days and have the option to break it up to a 30-day for ISK.
I can see it now, 1 year mandatory subscriptions with the option to break it into 30-60-90.
Another change I see is the rise of RL money to transfer chars. CCP would say "a 58 Mil SP char takes a bigger clone transport vat bay t transport across the univers than a 5 MIL SP char", so instead of $20 now, it would be $50 for a high SP char.
And its nice to see that to start a char with 30-days is now $19.95. CCP should jack the price more because of the falling dollar prices, oh wait, thats what the increase of GTC's are!
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Richard Aiel
Caldari Caldari Provisions
|
Posted - 2008.11.05 15:46:00 -
[5364]
Originally by: Shiu
Sarcasm doesnt work very well on the internet. If you want to spew bile be my guest, Im only stating the obvious, if people start to abuse it too much, ofcourse CCP will have to change it, dont be so naive thinking it wont spread like wildfire, and then CCP will be in real trouble.
Then by your logic, ISK needs to be removed because ppl buy it ------------------------------------------------ CCP you are your own worst enemy. ------------------------------------------------ |
lisacurie
|
Posted - 2008.11.05 16:05:00 -
[5365]
Originally by: Xavier Holtzman Well, this will probably be my last post here as my subscription expires in a couple days. I hope ya'll keep posting here and keep this thread alive (as long as ccp doesn't blatantly delete it, which is what I've come to expect). I'd hate to see this thread get buried a few weeks from now. Its too bad. This was one of the coolest games I've played. Oh well. I'm looking forward to checking out Jumpgate, and especially Champions when that comes out next year. In the meantime I'll be playing City of Heroes and Warhammer. Maybe I'll cya'll in another land.....
Another whiner leaving - can I have your stuff?
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Shoukei
Caldari Boobs Ahoy
|
Posted - 2008.11.05 17:15:00 -
[5366]
Originally by: lisacurie Another whiner leaving - can I have your stuff?
i was here first! however, in the spirit of sharing, i don't mind giving you half of his stuff.
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Tivookz
Caldari IMPERIAL SENATE Pure.
|
Posted - 2008.11.05 18:14:00 -
[5367]
Originally by: Shoukei
Originally by: lisacurie Another whiner leaving - can I have your stuff?
i was here first! however, in the spirit of sharing, i don't mind giving you half of his stuff.
Can I have your stuff is like sooo 2006 or at best 2007, cut it out please, it was pretty funny the first time but now it's just a major annoyance as you won't be getting anyones stuff ever by just asking that question.
Tiv __________________________________________________
Hating Cash Craving Productions since oct 15th 2008 |
Shoukei
Caldari Boobs Ahoy
|
Posted - 2008.11.05 18:29:00 -
[5368]
Originally by: Tivookz Can I have your stuff is like sooo 2006 or at best 2007, cut it out please, it was pretty funny the first time but now it's just a major annoyance as you won't be getting anyones stuff ever by just asking that question.
Tiv
im sure you have seen it all already. so, like, can i have your stuff grandpa?
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Squirrrel
Gallente Squirrrel Industries
|
Posted - 2008.11.05 19:19:00 -
[5369]
Originally by: Shoukei
Originally by: Tivookz Can I have your stuff is like sooo 2006 or at best 2007, cut it out please, it was pretty funny the first time but now it's just a major annoyance as you won't be getting anyones stuff ever by just asking that question.
Tiv
im sure you have seen it all already. so, like, can i have your stuff grandpa?
You kids... probably wouldn't really know how to use it and it would just end up getting broken.
Now... be off with you.
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Shoukei
Caldari Boobs Ahoy
|
Posted - 2008.11.05 21:18:00 -
[5370]
Originally by: Squirrrel You kids... probably wouldn't really know how to use it and it would just end up getting broken.
Now... be off with you.
we just wanted their stuff, before they take them to one of those elderly people homes. you cant take it to your grave you know, so no reason for good stuff to go to waste.
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Tivookz
Caldari IMPERIAL SENATE Pure.
|
Posted - 2008.11.05 22:01:00 -
[5371]
Originally by: Shoukei
Originally by: Squirrrel You kids... probably wouldn't really know how to use it and it would just end up getting broken.
Now... be off with you.
we just wanted their stuff, before they take them to one of those elderly people homes. you cant take it to your grave you know, so no reason for good stuff to go to waste.
If we would give you anything worth mentioning you'd have plenty of cool toys to play with and thus a reason to continue to play thus increasing CCP's revenue.
So I will be happy to take it with me to my grave because then at best one person will get frustrated and stop playing because of the endless grind required to make some real money.
So no, you cannot have it.
Tiv __________________________________________________
Hating Cash Craving Productions since oct 15th 2008 |
Yarax
|
Posted - 2008.11.05 22:41:00 -
[5372]
Originally by: lisacurie
Another whiner leaving - can I have your stuff?
HTFU and earn your own stuff. Or go find a thread for lazy beggers.
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Xavier Holtzman
Caldari Provisions
|
Posted - 2008.11.05 23:46:00 -
[5373]
Edited by: Xavier Holtzman on 05/11/2008 23:46:45
Originally by: lisacurie
Originally by: Xavier Holtzman Well, this will probably be my last post here as my subscription expires in a couple days. I hope ya'll keep posting here and keep this thread alive (as long as ccp doesn't blatantly delete it, which is what I've come to expect). I'd hate to see this thread get buried a few weeks from now. Its too bad. This was one of the coolest games I've played. Oh well. I'm looking forward to checking out Jumpgate, and especially Champions when that comes out next year. In the meantime I'll be playing City of Heroes and Warhammer. Maybe I'll cya'll in another land.....
Another whiner leaving - can I have your stuff?
Obviously you haven't been reading this thread, or you would have read the post where I said I have already given my 6 billion in assets to my friends. So, go find another street corner to panhandle on.
Hopfully CCP will be able to give you all kinds of new toys now that they're going to be getting all of this extra revenue by taking out ghost training. -=Xavier Holtzman=- "I'm in love with a malicious intent." |
HowardStern
|
Posted - 2008.11.06 03:16:00 -
[5374]
Originally by: Xavier Holtzman Hopfully CCP will be able to give you all kinds of new toys now that they're going to be getting all of this extra revenue by taking out ghost training.
Well, it made me chuckle. Thanks for the comedy, Xavier.
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Yazoul Samaiel
Caldari Body Count Inc.
|
Posted - 2008.11.06 10:05:00 -
[5375]
Sandy minge is a bimbo , just sayin
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Fawziyyah
|
Posted - 2008.11.06 10:38:00 -
[5376]
I think that we are loosing this thread, I also have 2 more accounts, that will go expire and I won't be rushing back to reactivate them becouse of this issue.
I won't be leaving EVE at all so if those of you that are hardcore about the issue and want to leave the game be so kind to make some donations for the poor Gallente, Caldari, Amarr and Minmatar childs that have lost their parents at the war...
Contracts and donations can be made directly to me
Thanks in antecipation to all the good souls out there...
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Nairova Intaku
|
Posted - 2008.11.06 11:56:00 -
[5377]
Edited by: Nairova Intaku on 06/11/2008 11:56:20 wrong thread
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Tivookz
Caldari IMPERIAL SENATE Pure.
|
Posted - 2008.11.06 14:54:00 -
[5378]
Edited by: Tivookz on 06/11/2008 14:55:03
Originally by: Fawziyyah I think that we are loosing this thread, I also have 2 more accounts, that will go expire and I won't be rushing back to reactivate them becouse of this issue.
I won't be leaving EVE at all so if those of you that are hardcore about the issue and want to leave the game be so kind to make some donations for the poor Gallente, Caldari, Amarr and Minmatar childs that have lost their parents at the war...
Contracts and donations can be made directly to me
Thanks in antecipation to all the good souls out there...
Lose? We cannot lose.
Everything you see around you on this website is about our money.
So since CCP has failed to keep you as a paying customer, you've won.
CCP has us, the community, without us they are nothing.
We on the other hand have hundreds of other mmo's to choose from.
Linkage
So no, if there's anyone who has lost anything it's CCP, especially since ghost-training was a major addiction feature because you always wanted to resubscribe to reap the riches from your xx day skill you trained while doing whatever u needed to do irl.
Tiv __________________________________________________
Hating Cash Craving Productions since oct 15th 2008 |
Tivookz
Caldari IMPERIAL SENATE Pure.
|
Posted - 2008.11.06 14:58:00 -
[5379]
On another note..
I wonder how much the developers of Black Prophecy gave T0rfifrans to make that enormously foolish mistake to remove the addicting feature called ghost-training.
Or was it the devs of Jumpgate evolution?
Tiv __________________________________________________
Hating Cash Craving Productions since oct 15th 2008 |
Leica Stroganow
|
Posted - 2008.11.06 15:48:00 -
[5380]
http://www.eveonline.com/features/quantumrise/
oleoleole we get new stuff.........i wonder if afew ppl would resubscribe for 8 new songs and this other unspecular rubbish.........lack of contend ????
R.I.P. EVE
|
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Blondhy
|
Posted - 2008.11.06 16:04:00 -
[5381]
Quote:
Quote: Ghost Training was an unintended feature
No it wasn't.
Quote: Skills continue training even if you are logged off or if your account is inactive
They have now changed it.
"Skills continue training even if you are logged off, but the skill will no longer continue to train on inactive accounts (an inactive account is when youÆre no longer paying the subscription, training will still continue when youÆve logged off on an subscribed account)."
I don't care if this was already mentioned. I just wanted to remind ppl who were exploiting this bug.
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Last Wolf
Umbra Wing
|
Posted - 2008.11.06 16:14:00 -
[5382]
You people are still crying over this?
Stop being so pathetic, you're making 13-year-old middle-school girl drama look reasonable. Besides, I'm never gonna give you up, never gonna let you down |
Lorac Caladon
Caldari The Cowboy Junkies
|
Posted - 2008.11.06 16:20:00 -
[5383]
Originally by: Blondhy
Quote:
Quote: Ghost Training was an unintended feature
No it wasn't.
Quote: Skills continue training even if you are logged off or if your account is inactive
They have now changed it.
"Skills continue training even if you are logged off, but the skill will no longer continue to train on inactive accounts (an inactive account is when youÆre no longer paying the subscription, training will still continue when youÆve logged off on an subscribed account)."
I don't care if this was already mentioned. I just wanted to remind ppl who were exploiting this bug.
Remind me please, which "bug" were/are people exploiting? Do you mean the one that CCP (the owners of Eve-Online) advertised (for ~5 years) as a feature?
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Lorac Caladon
Caldari The Cowboy Junkies
|
Posted - 2008.11.06 16:21:00 -
[5384]
Originally by: Last Wolf You people are still crying over this?
Stop being so pathetic, you're making 13-year-old middle-school girl drama look reasonable.
Sounds like you are speaking from experience here. Care to talk about it? You know, work it out?
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Soma Khan
|
Posted - 2008.11.06 16:40:00 -
[5385]
Originally by: Yarax
Originally by: lisacurie
Another whiner leaving - can I have your stuff?
HTFU and earn your own stuff. Or go find a thread for lazy beggers.
Irony ITT?
Not really. Just another displayed symptom of being in denial. ___
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altofanaltofanalt
|
Posted - 2008.11.06 16:54:00 -
[5386]
Talking about beggers, can i have some stuff or/and isk donated please? I'm in HUUUUUGE need of isk, PLEEAASEEE???!
|
Rasik Argimater
|
Posted - 2008.11.06 17:07:00 -
[5387]
Originally by: Lorac Caladon Remind me please, which "bug" were/are people exploiting? Do you mean the one that CCP (the owners of Eve-Online) advertised (for ~5 years) as a feature?
That's the one! Out of the blue CCP calls it a bug and the good little fanboi soldiers line up and call it a bug. Out of the blue CCP invents a PR spin name for it, "ghost training," and the good little fanboi soldiers line up and call it "ghost training."
In the end, though, this is far from mere drama. This is money. Quite possibly big money for CCP. If they lose the equivalent of 10,000 accounts over it, that's as much as $1,800,000 per year. And it could be worse than that. No one really knows how many of their subscribers are active, paying ones, and no one knows how many multi-account holders make up the total of active accounts.
Then there's the downward spiral effect. If their numbers develop a distinct downward trend it will be self-reinforcing. More ppl will leave and fewer will be inclined to come in. I haven't studied the MMOG market but I've read it written that once the stats start going down they never recover. It's not difficult to imagine that they have ****ed off 5,000 medium and long-term players who average 5 accounts each. If that were the case, it could cost CCP $4,500,000 per year and rip the heart right out of the game.
The children here can call me a whiner but right now I'm costing CCP $1,260 on an annualized basis -- subs I no longer pay for. This is my sig? |
Yarax
|
Posted - 2008.11.06 17:24:00 -
[5388]
Originally by: altofanaltofanalt Talking about beggers, can i have some stuff or/and isk donated please? I'm in HUUUUUGE need of isk, PLEEAASEEE???!
When people quit they usually destroy their stuff or give it to people they know. If you want freebies, I suggest you convince some of your friends to quit. Very close friends are best, they will be more likely to give the stuff to you. To get really good freebies you should convince old rich friends to quit playing, maybe the CEO of your corp would be a good target.
Good Luck
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Yarax
|
Posted - 2008.11.06 17:35:00 -
[5389]
Edited by: Yarax on 06/11/2008 17:40:33
Originally by: Soma Khan
Originally by: Yarax
HTFU and earn your own stuff. Or go find a thread for lazy beggers.
Irony ITT?
Not really. Just another displayed symptom of being in denial.
I'm afraid I don't understand your comment Soma, which may be a consequence of you not understanding my comment. You seem to be saying that I'm in denial about something...
I don't mind how people chose to get their ISK, scammers, pirates, miners, scientists, it's all part of the game. But the people that beg for ISK are too soft to survive in the harsh environment of Eve. They'll lose it all and then quit because the game is too hard. I know several people like this IRL and they need to HTFU too.
Edit: And just to stay on-topic, I'm quitting in protest at the Skill-Training-Completion nerf, and the associated BS.
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Soma Khan
|
Posted - 2008.11.06 18:34:00 -
[5390]
Originally by: Yarax
Originally by: Soma Khan
Just another displayed symptom of being in denial.
I'm afraid I don't understand your comment Soma, which may be a consequence of you not understanding my comment. You seem to be saying that I'm in denial about something...
...irrelevant posturing deleted...
Edit: And just to stay on-topic, I'm quitting in protest at the Skill-Training-Completion nerf, and the associated BS.
I can see that you don't understand.
This whole thread is about expressing massive amounts of angst over loosing a computer game freebie. This angst is sometime disguised as indignation at being slighted or given such short notice, however this doesn't change the main gist. Can there be a lower form of begging? I am hard pressed to come up with an example. ___
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Xavier Holtzman
Caldari Provisions
|
Posted - 2008.11.06 18:46:00 -
[5391]
Originally by: Soma Khan
Originally by: Yarax
Originally by: Soma Khan
Just another displayed symptom of being in denial.
I'm afraid I don't understand your comment Soma, which may be a consequence of you not understanding my comment. You seem to be saying that I'm in denial about something...
...irrelevant posturing deleted...
Edit: And just to stay on-topic, I'm quitting in protest at the Skill-Training-Completion nerf, and the associated BS.
I can see that you don't understand.
This whole thread is about expressing massive amounts of angst over loosing a computer game feature. This angst is sometime disguised as indignation at being slighted or given such short notice, however this doesn't change the main gist. Can there be a lower form of begging? I am hard pressed to come up with an example.
Fixed that for ya..... -=Xavier Holtzman=- "I'm in love with a malicious intent." |
Brother Welcome
Amarr Suddenly Ninjas Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
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Posted - 2008.11.06 18:46:00 -
[5392]
Originally by: Soma Khan This whole thread is about expressing massive amounts of angst over loosing a computer game freebie. This angst is sometime disguised as indignation at being slighted or given such short notice, however this doesn't change the main gist. Can there be a lower form of begging? I am hard pressed to come up with an example.
I feel no angst; only disappointment. I'll go ahead and assume you understand how training works, and thus that you understand that what one is paying for with one's subscription is the capability to enter control inputs.
One doesn't pay to set up a toon, that's free with a trial account. One doesn't pay to keep toon data on the database, that happens even if you stop subbing... yes, even now. One doesn't pay to have change occur to database entries, that happens for research and such.
The feature that has been removed represents a corporate failure to offer fair value. I and others object to that, and to the corporate failure to deal with us fairly, hence we take the only recourse offered to disappointed customers, which is to take our money elsewhere.
-vk
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Rasik Argimater
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Posted - 2008.11.06 18:47:00 -
[5393]
Originally by: Soma Khan This whole thread is about expressing massive amounts of angst over loosing a computer game freebie. This angst is sometime disguised as indignation at being slighted or given such short notice, however this doesn't change the main gist. Can there be a lower form of begging? I am hard pressed to come up with an example.
You obviously don't understand the issue and obviously haven't read more than a few of the posts in the thread. On that basis you're not qualified to have an opinion on this. This is my sig? |
Xavier Holtzman
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2008.11.06 19:04:00 -
[5394]
Edited by: Xavier Holtzman on 06/11/2008 19:06:54 Edited by: Xavier Holtzman on 06/11/2008 19:06:43 Edited by: Xavier Holtzman on 06/11/2008 19:04:48 *deleted* -=Xavier Holtzman=- "I'm in love with a malicious intent." |
Squirrrel
Gallente Squirrrel Industries
|
Posted - 2008.11.06 19:16:00 -
[5395]
Originally by: Soma Khan
This whole thread is about expressing massive amounts of angst over loosing a computer game freebie. This angst is sometime disguised as indignation at being slighted or given such short notice, however this doesn't change the main gist. Can there be a lower form of begging? I am hard pressed to come up with an example.
Yes. That IS what this whole thread is about. Top marks for you, here's a cap with a big D on it. Please go sit in the corner with all the other winners.
Thanks for the Ghost-O too by the way.
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Squirrrel
Gallente Squirrrel Industries
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Posted - 2008.11.06 19:19:00 -
[5396]
Originally by: Tivookz
If we would give you anything worth mentioning you'd have plenty of cool toys to play with...
Yet with no unsubbed training; many of them will sadly never even be able to use them.
Oh the irony.
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Soma Khan
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Posted - 2008.11.06 19:31:00 -
[5397]
Originally by: Brother Welcome I feel no angst; only disappointment. I'll go ahead and assume you understand how training works, and thus that you understand that what one is paying for with one's subscription is the capability to enter control inputs.
One doesn't pay to set up a toon, that's free with a trial account. One doesn't pay to keep toon data on the database, that happens even if you stop subbing... yes, even now. One doesn't pay to have change occur to database entries, that happens for research and such.
The feature that has been removed represents a corporate failure to offer fair value. I and others object to that, and to the corporate failure to deal with us fairly, hence we take the only recourse offered to disappointed customers, which is to take our money elsewhere.
-vk
This is comedy gold. You signed the EULA, live by it.
Furthermore, if you consider freebies an utmostly important quality for your choices in computer games (and the "fair value" they offer), by all means stop playing and go elsewhere. Writing post after inane post lamenting your loss in a public forum demonstrates a much more personal problem.
In addition, financially speaking, what CCP may lose as a result of a few emoragequits now, they will gain many times over with the future subscriptions. What they did was a sound business decision. ___
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Squirrrel
Gallente Squirrrel Industries
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Posted - 2008.11.06 19:39:00 -
[5398]
Edited by: Squirrrel on 06/11/2008 19:40:12
Originally by: Soma Khan What they did was a sound business decision.
Short-Mid term maybe so. Long term, I don't think so.
They have smeared their own name and reputation for the way- can you please that get into your head, the way they went about the change and tried to lie about the reasoning to their paying customers.
Jeopordising your company through bad publicity and making many MMO players so wary about touching anything CCP are involved in... a sound business decision?
Only if you graduated from clown college.
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Soma Khan
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Posted - 2008.11.06 19:54:00 -
[5399]
Originally by: Squirrrel Edited by: Squirrrel on 06/11/2008 19:40:12
Originally by: Soma Khan What they did was a sound business decision.
Short-Mid term maybe so. Long term, I don't think so.
Well, we'll just have to agree to disagree on this one. I'm not here to give lectures on the basics of public relations damage control.
What I am mainly commenting on is the apparent conviction of some that having payed once or twice for a computer game is somehow equivalent to receiving some kind of nuptial rights to everything about it. ___
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Squirrrel
Gallente Squirrrel Industries
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Posted - 2008.11.06 20:07:00 -
[5400]
Edited by: Squirrrel on 06/11/2008 20:08:14
Originally by: Soma Khan I'm not here to give lectures on the basics of public relations damage control.
Nor qualified I'd wager.
Originally by: Soma Khan
What I am mainly commenting on is the apparent conviction of some that having payed once or twice for a computer game is somehow equivalent to receiving some kind of nuptial rights to everything about it.
I might actually want to hear that lecture though to be honest, it would probably be really funny. You know, people DO realise that CCP can change the content and mechanics of the game as they see fit. It's their game. We know that.
However, it's not a game they put out for free. We know this too. We pay for it. And if you don't because you're using GTC, someone else is still paying for it.
What people don't tend to like, what customers don't tend tolerate - and what is a great mistake when you want repeat custom - is when they are clearly lied to.
Again, the WAY that CCP went about this change, rather than the change itself is largely a key factor. Yes, some people don't like the change itself. They pay, it's their prerogative.
If you keep kicking a dog, chances are one day it's going to turn around and bite you.
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Soma Khan
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Posted - 2008.11.06 20:27:00 -
[5401]
Originally by: Squirrrel Edited by: Squirrrel on 06/11/2008 20:08:14
Originally by: Soma Khan I'm not here to give lectures on the basics of public relations damage control.
Nor qualified I'd wager.
Originally by: Soma Khan
What I am mainly commenting on is the apparent conviction of some that having payed once or twice for a computer game is somehow equivalent to receiving some kind of nuptial rights to everything about it.
I might actually want to hear that lecture though to be honest, it would probably be really funny. You know, people DO realise that CCP can change the content and mechanics of the game as they see fit. It's their game. We know that.
However, it's not a game they put out for free. We know this too. We pay for it. And if you don't because you're using GTC, someone else is still paying for it.
What people don't tend to like, what customers don't tend tolerate - and what is a great mistake when you want repeat custom - is when they are clearly lied to.
Again, the WAY that CCP went about this change, rather than the change itself is largely a key factor. Yes, some people don't like the change itself. They pay, it's their prerogative.
If you keep kicking a dog, chances are one day it's going to turn around and bite you.
See what I mean, you can't stop. In a relationship this kind of behavior looks very much like 'codependency'.
The fact that you refer to yourself as a 'dog being kicked' is also symptomatic. ___
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Tivookz
Caldari IMPERIAL SENATE Pure.
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Posted - 2008.11.06 20:37:00 -
[5402]
Edited by: Tivookz on 06/11/2008 20:39:07
Originally by: Soma Khan
Originally by: Squirrrel Edited by: Squirrrel on 06/11/2008 20:08:14
Originally by: Soma Khan I'm not here to give lectures on the basics of public relations damage control.
Nor qualified I'd wager.
Originally by: Soma Khan
What I am mainly commenting on is the apparent conviction of some that having payed once or twice for a computer game is somehow equivalent to receiving some kind of nuptial rights to everything about it.
I might actually want to hear that lecture though to be honest, it would probably be really funny. You know, people DO realise that CCP can change the content and mechanics of the game as they see fit. It's their game. We know that.
However, it's not a game they put out for free. We know this too. We pay for it. And if you don't because you're using GTC, someone else is still paying for it.
What people don't tend to like, what customers don't tend tolerate - and what is a great mistake when you want repeat custom - is when they are clearly lied to.
Again, the WAY that CCP went about this change, rather than the change itself is largely a key factor. Yes, some people don't like the change itself. They pay, it's their prerogative.
If you keep kicking a dog, chances are one day it's going to turn around and bite you.
See what I mean, you can't stop. In a relationship this kind of behavior looks very much like 'codependency'.
The fact that you refer to yourself as a 'dog being kicked' is also symptomatic.
Knowing that you Soma Khan have been posting in this thread for a long time I can only assume that you are:
A: A complete moron who doesn't have anything else to do irl but type in a thread he doesn't care about since you obviously don't care about ghost training.
B: Hired by CCP to act as a troll in order to aggrivate us to give CCP a reason to lock this thread.
Tiv __________________________________________________
Hating Cash Craving Productions since oct 15th 2008 |
Soma Khan
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Posted - 2008.11.06 20:48:00 -
[5403]
Originally by: Tivookz Edited by: Tivookz on 06/11/2008 20:39:07 Knowing that you Soma Khan have been posting in this thread for a long time I can only assume that you are:
A: A complete moron who doesn't have anything else to do irl but type in a thread he doesn't care about since you obviously don't care about ghost training.
B: Hired by CCP to act as a troll in order to aggrivate us to give CCP a reason to lock this thread.
Tiv
That is certainly an interesting description of this thread's denizens. Shows much selfloathing. ___
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Squirrrel
Gallente Squirrrel Industries
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Posted - 2008.11.06 20:48:00 -
[5404]
Originally by: Soma Khan [See what I mean, you can't stop. In a relationship this kind of behavior looks very much like 'codependency'.
The fact that you refer to yourself as a 'dog being kicked' is also symptomatic.
I love your amateur psychology.
Doesn't hide the fact you have no point though...
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Chani Fedaykin
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Posted - 2008.11.06 22:07:00 -
[5405]
Edited by: Chani Fedaykin on 06/11/2008 22:07:08
Originally by: Soma Khan stuff and more stuff
go troll with ranger 1
you two share the same lack of comprehension what this thread is about. i dont even care to try to explain it to you - just a little advice ... first get a clue what and why people complain, before posting here - otherwise you could make yourself look 'a little bit' incompetent (and using sophisticated formulations doesnt make your posts look better if they have no point) |
Yarax
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Posted - 2008.11.07 00:14:00 -
[5406]
Originally by: Soma Khan
I can see that you don't understand.
And perhaps that is because your posts are deliberately vague.
Originally by: Soma Khan
Blah, blah, blah.
Launching Troll Quest Probe. Analyzing... Type: Troll Signature Signal Strength: 99.9 Distance: 0.345au Accuracy: 0m
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Xavier Holtzman
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2008.11.07 00:30:00 -
[5407]
Edited by: Xavier Holtzman on 07/11/2008 00:33:47 At least if the trolls keep posting they'll help keep the thread alive......
*shrugs -=Xavier Holtzman=- "I'm in love with a malicious intent." |
Soporo
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.11.07 03:23:00 -
[5408]
Back on topic: I used to resub an alt account every other month to ghost train. It's not possible now apparently, but it's no biggie really. My point is CCP won't get that cash I used to spend. *shrugs*
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Boomer Aires
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Posted - 2008.11.07 12:21:00 -
[5409]
Still no answer or statement from CCP? Have they been muzzled by the management? Professional BS-ing!!!
Well, ok - no further lies....
Are the real reasons of "fixing the unsub training feature" and the cancellation if the 30/90days GTC are based at the introduction of Quantum Rising/Rise and it's features?
Quote: A completely new in-game system that allows you to trade 30 day game time tokens for ISK, the in-game currency, with other players via the EVE market. CCP's revolutionary approach to enabling anyone to play EVE for a bit of elbow grease!
And this:
Quote: The introduction of In-game Subscription Services. You can now convert your 60-day EVE Time Codes (ETCs) into two 30-day items in game. These “30-Day Pilot’s Licenses” can be traded freely through all regular means (via market or contract or directly between players) and can be activated at any time. This feature will be available on November 11th or shortly thereafter
So CCP, what was "Unsub-Training"? Unfair, a bug, unsafe source of income,... How can we trust you any longer?
Originally by: Yarax
Launching Troll Quest Probe. Analyzing... Type: Troll Signature Signal Strength: 99.9 Distance: 0.345au Accuracy: 0m
Great!!
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Delos Korelian
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Posted - 2008.11.07 12:37:00 -
[5410]
LOL. the thread gone "missing" again.
Good Job CCP........ you guys are way to transparent.
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Jinx Barker
GFB Scientific
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Posted - 2008.11.07 12:56:00 -
[5411]
Originally by: Petition Owner
Jinx Barker
Petition Body
Hello CCP GM Member Team,
The following thread: http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=896318&page=1
the one on "ghost training" has gone missing again.
It is no longer visible in the Information Portal, and there is no longer access to it through a sticky from another thread.
Please Fix this as soon as you can.
Kind Regards,
JB
I am now unbanned! Nice to see that my prediction on what CCP will eventually do with this thread has come to fruition. Of course, we should give them benefit of the doubt, for a bit.... So, being a good and law abiding and CCP Fee Paying little boy, I have filed a petition, the new system covers FORUMS NOW? Did you know that?
I suggest others do the same, if the entertainment provided is good, that is.
Oh, and since this is my first post since my ban for "insulting" CCP Torfi:
Hello T0RFI! I hope everything is OK at work and at home, and things are going smooth. I have not seen you post anything significant in the last few weeks, I hope things are OK, I really do. I am glad Oveur, ever so carefully, poked his head out in a recent blog, you should talk to him, you can probably learn a few hundred things about community, honesty, transparency. You know, stuff that makes good PR, as opposed to the disasters and great whoopsies recently perpetrated by CCP.
In any event, my open letter to you, CCP Torfi, is coming to an end. I wish you all success possible and accorded with your abilities. I promise never to insult you again, or any other CCP member by suggesting incompetence, or that they ought to be fired, or any of those bad things, I will never, ever, ever, ever, do it again. I learned my lesson, do not ever say those things, even in jest. Do not suggest CCP would cover things up, nope, I will not! Scout's Honor. [END}
And, in general, I hope that they will "sticky" this thread soon, and fix its mysterious disappearance again. What an unlucky thread, out of thousands that were posted this one is the only one which goes missing. Go figure.
::::Click The Signature For the Blog::::
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Corbin Swift
Minmatar WD-40
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Posted - 2008.11.07 13:41:00 -
[5412]
Originally by: Corbin Swift I'll set a long skill training before I go though and if CCP come to their senses, fire Torfi, and reinstate the contract they had with me for the last 2 years, I'll probably be back sometime next year.
Originally by: Jinx Barker Oh, and since this is my first post since my ban for "insulting" CCP Torfi:
I'm not sure exactly what you said Jinx, but CCP should probably ban me too, for the above comment which I made about a week ago. And then maybe they'll come up with another new rule that slows down the training speed of banned characters.
Corbin
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Lorac Caladon
Caldari The Cowboy Junkies
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Posted - 2008.11.07 14:42:00 -
[5413]
Originally by: Boomer Aires Still no answer or statement from CCP? Have they been muzzled by the management? Professional BS-ing!!!
Yes, apparently they have been:
Quote: Weæve seen that the 400 people at CCP donæt all share a hive mind--even though weæve put into effect a lot of restrictions lately, much against the will of our staff, that they canæt be stating their opinions as freely as before.
Source
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Richard Aiel
Caldari Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2008.11.07 15:19:00 -
[5414]
Originally by: Corbin Swift
Originally by: Corbin Swift I'll set a long skill training before I go though and if CCP come to their senses, fire Torfi, and reinstate the contract they had with me for the last 2 years, I'll probably be back sometime next year.
Originally by: Jinx Barker Oh, and since this is my first post since my ban for "insulting" CCP Torfi:
I'm not sure exactly what you said Jinx, but CCP should probably ban me too, for the above comment which I made about a week ago. And then maybe they'll come up with another new rule that slows down the training speed of banned characters.
Corbin
Jinx suggested torfi should be terminated from CCP And I could care less if they ban me IM never coming back to THIS game. ------------------------------------------------ CCP you are your own worst enemy. ------------------------------------------------ |
Hul'ka
Minmatar MicroFunks
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Posted - 2008.11.07 16:28:00 -
[5415]
hahaha, topic deleted again! whoever said it will be on page 199 was wrong --------- phew phew
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Doc Fury
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Posted - 2008.11.07 17:36:00 -
[5416]
Originally by: Hul'ka hahaha, topic deleted again! whoever said it will be on page 199 was wrong
Don't worry, they'll fix it after Fanfest most likely.
"I'm not upset that you lied to me (CCP), I'm upset that from now on I can't believe you." - Friedrich Nietzsche
The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the ho's and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!' and I'll look down, and whisper 'no.' |
Squirrrel
Gallente Squirrrel Industries
|
Posted - 2008.11.07 19:05:00 -
[5417]
Edited by: Squirrrel on 07/11/2008 19:08:34
Quote: Weæve seen that the 400 people at CCP donæt all share a hive mind--even though weæve put into effect a lot of restrictions lately, much against the will of our staff, that they canæt be stating their opinions as freely as before.
Opinions are only opinions.
Dev blogs are Dev blogs, news items are news items, decisions are decisions and everyone SHOULD be on the same page on those.
The community is NOT mad about an opinion.
Sounds like Lord of Flies over there.
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Thaos
Gallente Techell Corp
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Posted - 2008.11.07 19:36:00 -
[5418]
CCP promotes dual accounting (maybe even triple and quad). Anyone recall the ôpower of twoö? It was definitely a nice feature to take a break from the game while a long lead skill trained, and then come back to play the game when the skill was done training. To be frank after playing the game for 5.5 years it can get tedious and boring at times. So all the dual accounting was an interesting business model to try and create more revenue for CCP overall, but it backfired due to the unpaid subscription skill training.
I like the business model, makes no sense to allow players to train skills for free, no other MMORPG does this. But most other MMORPGÆs use experience points and a different type of skill tree to advance in the game.
Mad respect for dropping the ball and waiting over five years to fix this ôbugö, but this would be a non-issue if the game was experience based and not time based skill training, but that would be a completely different game and who wants to code all that junk when a simple script can be used to automatically disable skill training for inactive unpaid subscriptions. ItÆs a shame new players wonÆt be able to ever take advantage of this illustrious feature that has helped propel my main character onward towards the path of AFK skill training enlightenment.
This game fix, nerf, whatever really only effects hardcore players that have been around since beta and enjoying the hellz out of production whoring, PvPÆing, and Agent mission running. These are the players most likely to have 40-60 day level 5 train times on high end skills. Yeah, nice.
IÆm going to miss this feature. I donÆt mind paying an active subscription to train skills of a character, but for the love of all that is good and holy, add a skill queue, before I suicide my char.
Maybe there will be less server lag now, eh? >:d
Retired production man cow. |
Lorac Caladon
Caldari The Cowboy Junkies
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Posted - 2008.11.08 01:38:00 -
[5419]
Originally by: Hul'ka hahaha, topic deleted again! whoever said it will be on page 199 was wrong
I don't think that CCP will/can just delete this thread. There are so many people that are ****ed about the past few months worth of stupid "fixes" that this thread will always be referred too...
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Doctor Drones
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Posted - 2008.11.08 01:50:00 -
[5420]
Originally by: Richard Aiel And I could care less if they ban me IM never coming back to THIS game.
Surely you mean "I couldn't care less"? If you assert that you could care less, that demonstrates that you do care. Whereas if you do not care at all, then it's not possible to care less, so you couldn't care less. See?
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Squirrrel
Gallente Squirrrel Industries
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Posted - 2008.11.08 01:54:00 -
[5421]
Originally by: Doctor Drones
Originally by: Richard Aiel And I could care less if they ban me IM never coming back to THIS game.
Surely you mean "I couldn't care less"? If you assert that you could care less, that demonstrates that you do care. Whereas if you do not care at all, then it's not possible to care less, so you couldn't care less. See?
In a perfect world you're correct. However, "Could care less" which supposedly originated in the U.S. is taken to mean the same thing and is generally accepted.
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Rasik Argimater
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Posted - 2008.11.08 02:25:00 -
[5422]
Originally by: Thaos ...So all the dual accounting was an interesting business model to try and create more revenue for CCP overall, but it backfired due to the unpaid subscription skill training.
How did it backfire? We have no evidence that anything backfired. We have only one vague statment that CCP noticed more accounts expiring with training active, and that they found that ominous. They made no statements to indicate that they did even basic research into those accounts and gave no indication of having noticed that a worldwide financial crisis might alone account for an increased rate of accounts being allowed to expire. And of course, yes, CCP has trained us well with frequent reminders to set long training anytime uncertainties loom, such as on Patch Day, before expansions, and yes, before account expiration.
Originally by: Thaos I like the business model, makes no sense to allow players to train skills for free,
Do your homework. It wasn't free. There are several very good, comprehensive explanations of the inner workings of training in this thread. Training is not a process -- it is the calculation of a waiting period before being able to use a skill. The skillbook, the prerequisites and the ability to click to start a training step are all done online, bought and paid for before training is started. The only thing that has to pass for a training step to complete is out-of-game calendar time. "Training" in Eve involves zero server load.
Originally by: Thaos no other MMORPG does this.
How is that relevant? Eve isn't any other MMORPG. If anything, Eve has tried to set itself apart from other MMORPGs and to have unique features others don't have.
Originally by: Thaos But most other MMORPGÆs use experience points and a different type of skill tree to advance in the game.
Exactly. You've just nullified your previous point.
Originally by: Thaos ...dropping the ball and waiting over five years to fix this ôbugö,
It was never a bug. It was a feature.
Originally by: Thaos but this would be a non-issue if the game was experience based and not time based skill training,
But it's not. Eve is Eve, not some other MMORPG. Such comparisons are not useful and fly in the face of Eve's obvious intent to be different and unique. Not only is Eve training time-based, it is out-of-game time-based -- calendar time-based. In the elegant way CCP implemented training in Eve, its natural behavior was to be independent of whether you're logged in, whether the servers are up and running, even whether your account is active. Once "started," the training completion is an out-of-game calendar time. To nerf this, CCP had to add new code and new server load.
Originally by: Thaos but that would be a completely different game
Right. And we're talking about Eve, right? Not some completely different game, right?
Originally by: Thaos This game fix, nerf, whatever really only effects hardcore players that have been around since beta and enjoying the hellz out of production whoring, PvPÆing, and Agent mission running.
Not true. It affects everyone whose account ever lapses for whatever reason. CCP has trained us well to schedule training whenever we can't count on logging in for whatever reason.
Originally by: Thaos These are the players most likely to have 40-60 day level 5 train times on high end skills. Yeah, nice.
That's only the extreme case. Much more common is someone setting whatever useful training they have available prior to Patch Day, new expansions, cluster hardware upgrades, their account expiring -- whatever reason they may not be able to count on logging in to manage training.
From CCP's perspective unsubbed training was a powerful feature that drew ppl back to reactivate their accounts. It makes little sense that they would nerf it in the mistaken belief they could generate additional revenue. This is my sig? |
Rasik Argimater
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Posted - 2008.11.08 03:00:00 -
[5423]
Originally by: Tivookz Edited by: Tivookz on 06/11/2008 14:55:03
Originally by: Fawziyyah I think that we are loosing this thread...
Lose? We cannot lose.
Everything you see around you on this website is about our money.
So since CCP has failed to keep you as a paying customer, you've won.
CCP has us, the community, without us they are nothing.
We on the other hand have hundreds of other mmo's to choose from.
Linkage
So no, if there's anyone who has lost anything it's CCP, especially since ghost-training was a major addiction feature because you always wanted to resubscribe to reap the riches from your xx day skill you trained while doing whatever u needed to do irl.
Tiv
This.
Someone else predicted that Jumpgate Evolution will "crush" Eve. Whether or not it does, the possibility of Eve being crushed by one or more other upcoming MMORPGs is very real. If I were running CCP I would have been taking extra special care of my subscribers to have the best chance of weathering the upcoming storms. I would not have mindlessly redefined a feature as a "bug" in the greedy and mistaken belief I could squeeze some more subscription fees from customers, I would not have lied about it and spun it half a dozen ways, I would not have displayed offensive arrogance in public statements about it...
Between the unsubbed training fiasco and the widespread discontent with the speed nerf, the two largest forum threads atm, these alone could spell Eve's doom if they start the downward spiral of declining subscriptions and online participation. Others with more time and experience than I in the online game field have pointed out that once a game starts downhill it doesn't recover. Add to that the lure of new and exciting MMORPGs and things could get very dicey for Eve and CCP. But you can bet that very damned few of those leaving Eve in discontent or reducing their accounts will even look at CCP's new vampire game.
I propose that CCP publicly identify the source of the decision to nerf unsubbed training and those involved in the lies and PR spin. Then CCP should gather all those involved and make a video of them tearfully and abjectly apologizing and begging our forgiveness. Some mortification of the flesh would help sway us and help convince us that the apologies are not mere throwaway words. If they did a really, really, really good job of such a video (and restored unsubbed training) I might reconsider and reactivate all my accounts.
Meanwhile, though, I can thank CCP for helping me to break my Eve addiction and free up large amounts of my time and attention for real life activities such as work, family and recreation and modest amounts of money that I mostly now use to buy audio books, my favorite form of entertainment since my eyes are no longer comfortable reading paper books. This is my sig? |
ArchonX15
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Posted - 2008.11.08 03:38:00 -
[5424]
The new upcoming games are very real, there are a lot of MMOs coming out that will drag players away.
Wake up. This is our game, we define it, we populate it. The architect of my house will not walk into my house and take out a wall because he felt like it.
Yes, this is an alt post, i am Vix633 and that account has expired. This one will too.
"Dont worry, they spent too much time and money on their characters. They will just come back, out of boredom or not finding an MMO or game that suits them enough." - No, we wont.
Not because this game is bad and not because he constant nerfs and time delays of 20 seconds between changing ships and all other time delays that are just there to make you money and annoy players. As well as save you the costs of buying new hardware and more advanced hardware to ensure that the server load on any cluster never reaches 50%. We will not come back because you were cheap, and because you lied.
Just to be a little different and state a logical solution. Make account reactivation restricted to real currency.
We aren't asking for much.
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tropic41
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Posted - 2008.11.08 11:47:00 -
[5425]
Edited by: tropic41 on 08/11/2008 11:49:43 ahh its fixed nvm ....
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Manipulator General
o.0
|
Posted - 2008.11.08 12:19:00 -
[5426]
Originally by: Squirrrel
Originally by: Doctor Drones
Originally by: Richard Aiel And I could care less if they ban me IM never coming back to THIS game.
Surely you mean "I couldn't care less"? If you assert that you could care less, that demonstrates that you do care. Whereas if you do not care at all, then it's not possible to care less, so you couldn't care less. See?
In a perfect world you're correct. However, "Could care less" which supposedly originated in the U.S. is taken to mean the same thing and is generally accepted.
Let's argue semantics, or general word/phrase usage now.
Not a jibe at you two, but a general statement about the fact that we're wasting our time talking about the actual subject of this thread, and might as well move onto something else :/
So, Calzaghe or Jones?
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Innaara
Gallente Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2008.11.08 13:27:00 -
[5427]
It's no use guys. 180 pages and do you think CCP will respond? Someone should kick Helmars ass at fanfest if you want him to listen.
Just give up and try Jumpgate.
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Squirrrel
Gallente Squirrrel Industries
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Posted - 2008.11.08 14:04:00 -
[5428]
Edited by: Squirrrel on 08/11/2008 14:08:23
Originally by: Thaos no other MMORPG does this.
Originally by: Rasik Argimater
How is that relevant? Eve isn't any other MMORPG. If anything, Eve has tried to set itself apart from other MMORPGs and to have unique features others don't have.
Originally by: Thaos But most other MMORPGÆs use experience points and a different type of skill tree to advance in the game.
Originally by: Rasik Argimater
Exactly. You've just nullified your previous point.
By taking what Thaos said line by line you've destroyed the context of what he was saying.
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Rasik Argimater
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Posted - 2008.11.08 21:00:00 -
[5429]
Originally by: Innaara It's no use guys.
Sure it is.
Originally by: Innaara 180 pages and do you think CCP will respond?
No, I for one don't expect CCP to respond. It's obvious they are going to tough it through. As a result they will have to pay the penalty. I'm content that on an individual level, in my own microuniverse, I can make sure that CCP loses money rather than makes money as a result of the nerf of unsubbed training. Even if I were the only one taking financial action on this, I would be content that I can ensure that it is a negative for CCP in the context of my accounts.
Originally by: Innaara Someone should kick Helmars ass at fanfest if you want him to listen.
That's a fun picture, but more realistically, wouldn't it be delicious if they held a fanfest and nobody went? Or, next best, if everyone who went incessantly brought up the unsubbed training and the lies and spin at every opportunity, in every audience question, at every face to face over a beer?
Originally by: Innaara Just give up and try Jumpgate.
It's not either-or. This thread is about voicing our displeasure, even disgust at the nerf and the way it was handled. It's about ramming the point home. It's about keeping the topic alive so others can see it. It's about getting a record into the mirror site(s) so that CCP can never truly make it disappear. Those of us who feel strongly about this issue are punishing CCP with loss of revenue while we continue to voice our opinions.
Also, I for one don't need an alternative MMOG in order to stop paying CCP for Eve. I don't need any computer game at all. My only reason for ever paying CCP anything is if I enjoy Eve and can consider that I'm being treated with a minimum acceptable level of respect and consideration. This is my sig? |
Rasik Argimater
|
Posted - 2008.11.08 21:08:00 -
[5430]
Originally by: Squirrrel By taking what Thaos said line by line you've destroyed the context of what he was saying.
Now that's just silly. He destroyed his own points with his own statements. And it's a fundamental of language that statements have to withstand detailed and point by point analysis. The only way for your claim to have meaning would be if we acknowledge that his overall piece has some intangible meaning and validity that cannot be found in the details. Nonsense. This is my sig? |
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Squirrrel
Gallente Squirrrel Industries
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Posted - 2008.11.08 23:42:00 -
[5431]
Edited by: Squirrrel on 08/11/2008 23:41:53 No, the point is that when someone makes a statement such as:
Originally by: Thaos no other MMORPG does this. But most other MMORPGÆs use experience points and a different type of skill tree to advance in the game.
Then what's the point of breaking it up and asking how the first part is relevant as Eve isn't any other MMORG and then taking the second bit and saying it nullifies the first part?
In context he's already explained that away and that was his actual point. No other MMO gives xp/training for free, but most other MMO's use a different training system so it can't be viewed the same. That's what he was getting at. You broke all those bits off and debated them as if he was arguing one point and then contradicting himself. In context, language does not work like that, and if you want to be really picky, it's incorrect to start a sentence with the word 'but', therefore you actually broke up a single sentence. He may be guilty of incorrect use of grammar and therefore it doesn't survive scrutiny line by line; however you would have to be pretty anal to pick it apart and ignore context.
The same for when a person writes something in quotes. He used "bug" - he didn't say simply: bug. That implies sarcasm, that the person doesn't consider it to be a bug. You say it's not a bug it's a feature. Re-read his entire post. He says the same thing - just that he used quotes and mentioned earlier on that it was nice to have unsubbed training.
You may think it's nonsense, and in parts it's hard to work out what his stance was, but you broke it down and attacked it where it wasn't necessary, as you took it out of context.
It seems he actually agreed with you but you argued about those bits anyway.
---------------------------------------- Doing whatever it takes to keep the thread alive...
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Soma Khan
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Posted - 2008.11.09 01:47:00 -
[5432]
Originally by: Squirrrel ... ---------------------------------------- Doing whatever it takes to keep the thread alive...
Why don't y'all discuss the expansion coming on March 10 '09? That'll keep the thread alive for quite some time, no? ___
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Chani Fedaykin
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Posted - 2008.11.09 01:58:00 -
[5433]
Originally by: Soma Khan stuff
seems that you changed your tactics to obviously make posts without a point instead of trying to put no point into an argumentative structure.
thanks for the trolling - thats a free bump ^^
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Soma Khan
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Posted - 2008.11.09 02:34:00 -
[5434]
Originally by: Chani Fedaykin
Originally by: Soma Khan stuff
seems that you changed your tactics to obviously make posts without a point instead of trying to put no point into an argumentative structure.
thanks for the trolling - thats a free bump ^^
Hey, just being friendly!
I see the concept is alien to you. Can't say I am surprised. ___
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Jinx Barker
GFB Scientific
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Posted - 2008.11.09 02:34:00 -
[5435]
This is the most unlucky thread, it keeps disappearing from the forums....
::::Click The Signature For the Blog::::
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Don Shadow
Viper Squad
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Posted - 2008.11.09 07:58:00 -
[5436]
Edited by: Don Shadow on 09/11/2008 08:04:38
Originally by: Soma Khan
Originally by: Squirrrel ... ---------------------------------------- Doing whatever it takes to keep the thread alive...
Why don't y'all discuss the expansion coming on March 10 '09? That'll keep the thread alive for quite some time, no?
so, they just found out when QR will be released, and you are telling me that they already know when it will be the next one? i mean, in 2-3 days he already was moved from next summer to march, maibe in the next 2-3 days will find that next expansion will be in december, this year, or maibe next year?...
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Chani Fedaykin
|
Posted - 2008.11.09 09:50:00 -
[5437]
Originally by: Soma Khan stuff again
if i would actually take you serious, i would be offended. however since you have already proven that your posts hold no points, the sole emotion your posts are able to raise is plain amusement :) |
Seth Vorlar
|
Posted - 2008.11.09 13:25:00 -
[5438]
And still no response to the playerbase ????
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Squirrrel
Gallente Squirrrel Industries
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Posted - 2008.11.09 17:02:00 -
[5439]
Originally by: Seth Vorlar And still no response to the playerbase ????
Well I thought that the original response to the playerbase seemed to be: "We're looking at putting cool stuff in Quantum "Ris(e")ing.
That didn't seem to work too well so now we have...
We'll make you all come back and continue to pay to us even though we lied to you and tried to cover it up, I mean look what we have in store for you.
And this is a promise. I mean, would we lie to you? Oh... hold on, er... Hide the thread!
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Squirrrel
Gallente Squirrrel Industries
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Posted - 2008.11.09 18:52:00 -
[5440]
Why don't y'all discuss the expansion coming on March 10 '09? That'll keep the thread alive for quite some time, no?
Can I talk about Eve TV and Fanfest instead, and the fact that some people think CCP are lying about the reasons for not broadcasting a live feed?
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|
Sandy Minge
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Posted - 2008.11.10 06:43:00 -
[5441]
Originally by: Squirrrel Edited by: Squirrrel on 09/11/2008 20:07:21
Originally by: Soma Khan
Why don't y'all discuss the expansion coming on March 10 '09? That'll keep the thread alive for quite some time, no?
Can I talk about Eve TV and Fanfest instead, and the fact that some people think CCP are lying about the reasons for not broadcasting a live feed?
Perhaps they wanted to ensure there is not gonna be any "Ghost-Fans", who would normally attend to the Fanfest but might turn into cheapskates, who save the ticket costs by watching the Livestream! :P
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Sue Mee
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Posted - 2008.11.10 08:48:00 -
[5442]
Originally by: Liu
...CCP thinks, even more, CCP strongly believes, that the slower we train, the more we will pay. that is the reason, the only reasonable reason, why after 5 years, we do not have any sort of limited skill queue system. shame on you CCP, i still got 25 years of training planned on EVEMon, making me loose some minutes or hours here and there when real life strikes, or your incompetence causes unexpected server downtimes, does not make me pay more money to you. it only makes me mad...
QFT.
sort it out CCP, making us loose training time is not gonna get you a single extra dollar. there are enough skills to keep us busy for the next two decades, dont be cheap on us, and code a skill queue already.
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Ssstupido
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Posted - 2008.11.10 09:11:00 -
[5443]
oh my, how can this thread not be a sticky? you have 50 stickies on this section of the forums, and this thread, which is the one with most replies, is not worth it? is that your silent answer to the playerbase?
i guess you must be surprised. even though you hid the thread from us for several days, we managed to keep it alive and force you to put it up again. well, this is that audience you are dealing with. we will not forget about this, the same way we havent forgotten the mess with GTC, or your initial reaction when T20 incident, or your attittude towards a skill queue.
the consecuences are completely deserved. i am down to 1 account from 3. enjoy your new status, ex-Cool-and-different-company-that-cares-for-its-player-base.
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Komiliya Jenius
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Posted - 2008.11.10 14:55:00 -
[5444]
We are still displeased at you CCP, no matter what expansions you give us. More like a "Contraction".
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Lady Godgifu
Gallente The Scope
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Posted - 2008.11.10 18:17:00 -
[5445]
It is a real shame that CCP haven't responded to this or put things back to the way they were, I really thought they would. I was hoping they would before my sub ran out, looks like I won't be coming back to Eve now
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WakyWooky
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Posted - 2008.11.10 19:53:00 -
[5446]
Hi mom, im in a ghost thingy
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Mia Aires
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Posted - 2008.11.10 21:30:00 -
[5447]
Edited by: Mia Aires on 10/11/2008 21:30:34 it's a ghost game....it was there - I'm sure...but now it's gone...
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Delos Korelian
|
Posted - 2008.11.10 21:33:00 -
[5448]
Well, lately I have been rather lackluster about logging into eve or playing the game. I am sort of biding my time till my subscription expires on the 31st of December. I know, rather long time to wait, but that's what I get for paying in advance.
What I am really paying attention to is the Quantum Rise thread and the disaster the so called expansion is turning out to be. Most interesting is the whinage from a number of fanboys who took the party line of "Ghost Training" was "unfair "and bad for the game" are now whetting themselves there, complaining of how evil CCP is.
Someone in this thread mentioned that given time CCP will do something to upset even greater number of players, even the fan boys, and I honestly feel that this time is now. There is so much that has been completely wrung out and taken apart and put back together again in the last year, there is so much backlash at the poor customer service and communication, there seems to be too many new people running this game who simply have no clue how the game was working before, and finally, it is clear and glaring that the almighty dollar/pound/euro has completely overtaken the CCP as a company.
Where the game was created and ran by a few very idealistic individuals, with clear and very unorthodox vision for the game, we are now faced with replacements who are seeing this game as a short term cash cow, something to capitalize on as quickly as possible, and then left to limp on its own.
The short term gains of revenue has clearly overtaken the long and thoughtful approach which used to be practiced by the developer team. More and more I see disenchantment, more and more I see people who come and go. More and more I see people lose interest in playing EVE due to the erratic behavior of the developers.
The gimmicks have replaced the content, the quantity has replaced quality, attention to the customer has been replaced by pettiness and robotic responses to the petitions. Community suggestions not listened to, a veneer of transparency created by CSM, and yet the actual player body is neutered by CCP and remains largely a show for the ignorant public.
Maybe I am just depressed that the game I loved so much, and people who ran it, whom I respected so much, is no longer the "best ever MMORPG out there," maybe I am depressed due to too many lies, too many "mistakes," too many half truths, and too many, and long ignored, issues, which are being swept under the rug, and covered up with massive verbiage with very little substance by CCP.
CCP got my money till the 31st, I can't help that, then I shall sell everything I own, drop my security status to -1.1 and place all the ISK on my head as bounty, following that I think I will be spending my hard earned money somewhere else.
Until then I will watch the developments and see what happens to this world I loved so much for so long.
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Juicy Fruits
Empyrean Age
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Posted - 2008.11.10 21:43:00 -
[5449]
i think that point would be if they ever release an expansion that costs money tbh, not now.
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Nadarius Chrome
Celestial Industrial Alliance
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Posted - 2008.11.10 22:40:00 -
[5450]
Originally by: Seth Vorlar And still no response to the playerbase ????
You can take the deafening silence as a response of a sort. The most disdainful response, a kind of "We don't owe you anything, just shut up and pay your sub, peons."
|
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Tasty Bit
Gallente UNITED STAR SYNDICATE
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Posted - 2008.11.10 23:18:00 -
[5451]
Originally by: Delos Korelian Well, lately I have been rather lackluster about logging into eve or playing the game. I am sort of biding my time till my subscription expires on the 31st of December. I know, rather long time to wait, but that's what I get for paying in advance.
What I am really paying attention to is the Quantum Rise thread and the disaster the so called expansion is turning out to be. Most interesting is the whinage from a number of fanboys who took the party line of "Ghost Training" was "unfair "and bad for the game" are now whetting themselves there, complaining of how evil CCP is.
Someone in this thread mentioned that given time CCP will do something to upset even greater number of players, even the fan boys, and I honestly feel that this time is now. There is so much that has been completely wrung out and taken apart and put back together again in the last year, there is so much backlash at the poor customer service and communication, there seems to be too many new people running this game who simply have no clue how the game was working before, and finally, it is clear and glaring that the almighty dollar/pound/euro has completely overtaken the CCP as a company.
Where the game was created and ran by a few very idealistic individuals, with clear and very unorthodox vision for the game, we are now faced with replacements who are seeing this game as a short term cash cow, something to capitalize on as quickly as possible, and then left to limp on its own.
The short term gains of revenue has clearly overtaken the long and thoughtful approach which used to be practiced by the developer team. More and more I see disenchantment, more and more I see people who come and go. More and more I see people lose interest in playing EVE due to the erratic behavior of the developers.
The gimmicks have replaced the content, the quantity has replaced quality, attention to the customer has been replaced by pettiness and robotic responses to the petitions. Community suggestions not listened to, a veneer of transparency created by CSM, and yet the actual player body is neutered by CCP and remains largely a show for the ignorant public.
Maybe I am just depressed that the game I loved so much, and people who ran it, whom I respected so much, is no longer the "best ever MMORPG out there," maybe I am depressed due to too many lies, too many "mistakes," too many half truths, and too many, and long ignored, issues, which are being swept under the rug, and covered up with massive verbiage with very little substance by CCP.
CCP got my money till the 31st, I can't help that, then I shall sell everything I own, drop my security status to -1.1 and place all the ISK on my head as bounty, following that I think I will be spending my hard earned money somewhere else.
Until then I will watch the developments and see what happens to this world I loved so much for so long.
If I could make this my signature, I would.
|
Seth Vorlar
|
Posted - 2008.11.10 23:41:00 -
[5452]
Originally by: Delos Korelian Well, lately I have been rather lackluster about logging into eve or playing the game. I am sort of biding my time till my subscription expires on the 31st of December. I know, rather long time to wait, but that's what I get for paying in advance.
What I am really paying attention to is the Quantum Rise thread and the disaster the so called expansion is turning out to be. Most interesting is the whinage from a number of fanboys who took the party line of "Ghost Training" was "unfair "and bad for the game" are now whetting themselves there, complaining of how evil CCP is.
Someone in this thread mentioned that given time CCP will do something to upset even greater number of players, even the fan boys, and I honestly feel that this time is now. There is so much that has been completely wrung out and taken apart and put back together again in the last year, there is so much backlash at the poor customer service and communication, there seems to be too many new people running this game who simply have no clue how the game was working before, and finally, it is clear and glaring that the almighty dollar/pound/euro has completely overtaken the CCP as a company.
Where the game was created and ran by a few very idealistic individuals, with clear and very unorthodox vision for the game, we are now faced with replacements who are seeing this game as a short term cash cow, something to capitalize on as quickly as possible, and then left to limp on its own.
The short term gains of revenue has clearly overtaken the long and thoughtful approach which used to be practiced by the developer team. More and more I see disenchantment, more and more I see people who come and go. More and more I see people lose interest in playing EVE due to the erratic behavior of the developers.
The gimmicks have replaced the content, the quantity has replaced quality, attention to the customer has been replaced by pettiness and robotic responses to the petitions. Community suggestions not listened to, a veneer of transparency created by CSM, and yet the actual player body is neutered by CCP and remains largely a show for the ignorant public.
Maybe I am just depressed that the game I loved so much, and people who ran it, whom I respected so much, is no longer the "best ever MMORPG out there," maybe I am depressed due to too many lies, too many "mistakes," too many half truths, and too many, and long ignored, issues, which are being swept under the rug, and covered up with massive verbiage with very little substance by CCP.
CCP got my money till the 31st, I can't help that, then I shall sell everything I own, drop my security status to -1.1 and place all the ISK on my head as bounty, following that I think I will be spending my hard earned money somewhere else.
Until then I will watch the developments and see what happens to this world I loved so much for so long.
QFT
|
Khamal Jolstien
Caldari Product Number 3
|
Posted - 2008.11.11 00:29:00 -
[5453]
Originally by: Delos Korelian Well, lately I have been rather lackluster about logging into eve or playing the game. I am sort of biding my time till my subscription expires on the 31st of December. I know, rather long time to wait, but that's what I get for paying in advance.
What I am really paying attention to is the Quantum Rise thread and the disaster the so called expansion is turning out to be. Most interesting is the whinage from a number of fanboys who took the party line of "Ghost Training" was "unfair "and bad for the game" are now whetting themselves there, complaining of how evil CCP is.
Someone in this thread mentioned that given time CCP will do something to upset even greater number of players, even the fan boys, and I honestly feel that this time is now. There is so much that has been completely wrung out and taken apart and put back together again in the last year, there is so much backlash at the poor customer service and communication, there seems to be too many new people running this game who simply have no clue how the game was working before, and finally, it is clear and glaring that the almighty dollar/pound/euro has completely overtaken the CCP as a company.
Where the game was created and ran by a few very idealistic individuals, with clear and very unorthodox vision for the game, we are now faced with replacements who are seeing this game as a short term cash cow, something to capitalize on as quickly as possible, and then left to limp on its own.
The short term gains of revenue has clearly overtaken the long and thoughtful approach which used to be practiced by the developer team. More and more I see disenchantment, more and more I see people who come and go. More and more I see people lose interest in playing EVE due to the erratic behavior of the developers.
The gimmicks have replaced the content, the quantity has replaced quality, attention to the customer has been replaced by pettiness and robotic responses to the petitions. Community suggestions not listened to, a veneer of transparency created by CSM, and yet the actual player body is neutered by CCP and remains largely a show for the ignorant public.
Maybe I am just depressed that the game I loved so much, and people who ran it, whom I respected so much, is no longer the "best ever MMORPG out there," maybe I am depressed due to too many lies, too many "mistakes," too many half truths, and too many, and long ignored, issues, which are being swept under the rug, and covered up with massive verbiage with very little substance by CCP.
CCP got my money till the 31st, I can't help that, then I shall sell everything I own, drop my security status to -1.1 and place all the ISK on my head as bounty, following that I think I will be spending my hard earned money somewhere else.
Until then I will watch the developments and see what happens to this world I loved so much for so long.
Could not have said it better myself. I just may link this post in my signature. |
Apertotes
Deep Core Mining Inc.
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 01:05:00 -
[5454]
Originally by: CCP tortifrans ...But it's also a company. We make a product, sell it, get salaries and then continue maintaining the product and making it better[...]We figure out how to maximize our returns
ok, so its for the money. no need to be ashamed. you are just like any other company, nothing less, NOTHING MORE. but you used to be like no other company. for many of us that is a step back.
Originally by: CCP tortifrans [...]But recently we have seen a surge in this behavior in a way that we were essentially supporting and maintaining a large number of customers that weren't paying us regular subscriptions.
so, you thought that those players were not inline with your goal of making more money. well, i disagree.
when a player buys a 30 day subscription and then lets it go inactive while training a long skill, its because he is closer to quiting than to subscribing full time. with this clever move, you are forcing him to choose. most of them will chose to quit.
thus, you have gone from 6 months of subscription every year, to nothing.
now, lets go back a few lines. you were doing this because of the money. but this is gonna make your income lower than before. how is it not an epic fail?
Originally by: CCP tortifrans
1. There was a way to progress a character in EVE without an active subscription
2. CCP noticed a surge in the trend and decided to fix the leak
mmm, interesting trend. i guess at CCP they have taken it very seriusly and studied the matter. there must be a reason why this is a trend. maybe the game is not as interesting as before. maybe a large part of the playerbase is disappointed with the recent CCP decisions, maybe some players believe that the game has lost what made it special.
after carefully studying all this options, CCP's reaction is...
Originally by: CCP tortifrans 3. Players now have to pay a subscription for characters to have them progress
good job
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Cyrus XII
Gallente Game-Over
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 03:40:00 -
[5455]
It just needs to be said that I think this is utter horse crap.
But I'm sure you don't really care what nearly 200 pages of complaints have to say so why put effort into this post?
Asses.
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meepakbong
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 03:49:00 -
[5456]
I am a perfect example of why the decision to end "ghost training" is a bad one. I admittedly took some time off from the game but would come back every now and again with a one month subscription and train up some skills and leave again. I certainly lost some training time over the course of the year that I was mostly away, but the incentive to come back and essentially get more than one month's worth of training for one month's subscription was appealing enough to keep me involved. Now, I'm back as a full time subscriber and have been for several months. In essense, you have forced Eve to become an all-or-nothing proposition for me. I fear that if I do decide to leave the game for a time again--and ghost training is still abolished--I will not be coming back.
Do you like apples CCP?
If so...
How do you like them apples?
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Delver Rootnose
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 06:51:00 -
[5457]
Never posted on Eve-Online forums before. I don't much like the low regard posters are kept in. Ghost training was one of the things that kept me coming back. I don't do much more than help people out, do the ocassional mission and chat on the NPC corp channel. I have taken a lot of changes to the game, sometimes with the usual whining and usually with no real worries. But the latest stack of changes has made me give up.
This will be my only post. I know everyone else has made theirs, and some have quit. I can only say now, that enough is enough. Ghost training was most of it, other parts are the just deployed patch. Sometimes it just feels like a losing battle.
Goodbye to those who I got to know and farewell to new guys who will come and try this game. I wish you the best of luck. My stuff has already been given. I just wanted to post in a epic thread. Nothing more to say.
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Tivookz
Caldari IMPERIAL SENATE Pure.
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 07:54:00 -
[5458]
Lots of good posts have been made lately.
One thing I keep thinking about though is how CCP tend to brag about the rising subscriber numbers.
2006: 100,000 or something like that
2008: 241,000~ according to the fanfest videos.
2009: I bet it will be less than 241k considering how many people have threatened to quit in this thread alone.
Will they remove the brag scene on the next fanfest?
Tiv __________________________________________________
Hating Cash Craving Productions since oct 15th 2008 |
Sloeb
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 12:20:00 -
[5459]
Why not just allow simultaneous skill training of all 3 characters per account. |
b0gz0r
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 12:37:00 -
[5460]
Originally by: Sandy Minge
Originally by: Ranger 1 Edited by: Ranger 1 on 30/10/2008 18:08:41 I could care less about the questions you pose, as they are irrelevant. I DO care that if you and I both have two accounts, you can train one of them up to the same level as mine while paying a fraction of the amount I do. Needed to be fixed at some point, was fixed at some point. Not much more needs to be said.
Given the best case scenario of having a cap ship char the skill plan might look something like this: Capitals5 - 60d GTC 60d in order to change skill Carriers5 - 60d GTC 60d in order to change skill Dreads5 - 60d GTC 60d in order to change skill year passed
So even in the best possible scenario the "ghost skiller" would have paid 50% of the non ghost skiller costs. Hardly a fraction of the money - especially when considering that this is a one time oppurtunity in an eve chars life and most skills are about rank 6-9 which would raise the level of subscriptioness to around 75%.
Besides: If you care about the fact that ppl might get service cheaper than you so much, then you should get CCP to remove/fix the Power of 2 proposition, as it clearly allowes people to train up alts cheaper.
In fact - when thinking about this response - someone might come to the conclusion that you are a greedy, selfish, nitpicking bastard who is just crying out everytime somebody else might have gotten an advantage over you! Pathetic and disgusting!
Bitter Ex CCP Marketing alt spotted
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Midas Man
Caldari Dzark Asylum
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Posted - 2008.11.12 14:06:00 -
[5461]
I think this explains alot
"If anything, the birth of an idea usually takes months. Thatæs after the mud wrestling, rotten shark eating contests and a host of other of battles take place, usually under the influences of alcohol (now you know my strength and why Iæm here)."
from this blog An Explination
This explains a whole lot me thinks
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Fawziyyah
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Posted - 2008.11.12 14:13:00 -
[5462]
Just have to say that I have 3 accounts, two of them expired in the patch day, normaly I would set a long skill (about 15 to 30 days) training and come back for more 3 months of active play with the 90 days time card, but now maybe I reactivate them in March 2009 or the next summer or never...
The point is... CCP lost two 90 days subs in the next month. By the way this account last til Feb. 09 then I may try the other MMOs out there, EVE was my first one and I liked it so much I didn't try any other, I liked the feeling of dealing with a company that still gives something back to please it's costumers even in times that they aren't paying subs, I would call it a fine way of marketing, but it seams that they know better about it...
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clone 1
Laughing Leprechauns Corporation Lotto Syndicate
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Posted - 2008.11.12 14:36:00 -
[5463]
In September I had 10 accounts (average 9months active and with 3 accounts full time), each of the 'ghost trained' accounts used up about $121 in GTCs (gametime was bought with isk by me but someone paid for it) A fully active account for the year is about $131 if paid by cc.
Now I have 3 accounts.
I am grateful actually.
-------------------------------------------------- The Angels Have the Phone Box |
Jake McCord
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.11.12 14:46:00 -
[5464]
Well, so much for having 2 accounts. Say "bye-bye" to at least one of them, CCP.
And as soon as I figure out the QR update, I may be gone for good. :( Too bad, it was a fun game, while it lasted.
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Tasty Bit
Gallente UNITED STAR SYNDICATE
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Posted - 2008.11.12 15:28:00 -
[5465]
Originally by: Sloeb Why not just allow simultaneous skill training of all 3 characters per account.
Why would they do that when you can achieve the same result by paying for 3 accounts? Oh, and they get triple the cash. That's why it won't happen.
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Sandy Minge
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Posted - 2008.11.12 16:56:00 -
[5466]
Edited by: Sandy Minge on 12/11/2008 16:57:02 I just took a look into the "tiny rising"-Expansion!
The Certificate thingy looks pretty interesting in terms of product chaining:
1) So in Quantum Rise the certificates are being introduced as a feature.
2) Within the summer Expansion they gonna be made mandatory for using ships and items - thus replacing skills. The CCP-spin might look something like: "Within the scope of making prerequests for ships/modules easier we decided that capsuleers will require certificates in order to use given items! - "Certificat, which have already been introduced in Quantum Rising are mandatory for the operation of ships and modules and will be handed out by CONCORD if the capsuleer has learned the necessary skills!"
So far so good, as certificates will be still based on skills.
4) The next logical step - U HEARD IT HERE FIRST - is gonna be certificates for isk or for GTC playing time "We came to the conclusion that newer EvE-players got a disadvantage over older characters as they are never able to reach their Skillpoint level. So we decided that capsuleers should be able to decrease the SKILL-GAP by the aquisition of certificates! Certificates can now be obtained in the 4 flavors Basic, Standard, Improved and Elite from every Station!"
5) PROFIT!
Can I haz t0rfis job now?
- What? You saying that you are planning this already? - Awww!
Edit:
Originally by: b0gz0r
Bitter Ex CCP Marketing alt spotted
- Hai b0gz0r :)
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NupetietVer
Neuro Cartographic Services
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Posted - 2008.11.12 16:59:00 -
[5467]
Nice to see this thread going, even after the various "stuff" CCP has thrown at us.
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Razzlee
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Posted - 2008.11.12 17:07:00 -
[5468]
Edited by: Razzlee on 12/11/2008 17:10:51 Well. Its been about a month since this all started. CCP should be seeing a noticeable drop by now in the amount of active accounts even with all the excitement of a new expansion. This number is going to continue to drop daily as prepaid accounts expire.
It's got about one more month to go before CCP undoes this. I'm sure they anticipated an initial drop in subscriptions and the level of player backlash they've received in this thread and the OTHER 50 page one that they locked.
I'm sure as well they told themselves the players would get over it and most would resubscribe within a matter of a few weeks, a month tops. Not only that, but then all those evil ghost trainers would start paying for their accounts 12 months out of the year and all that extra revenue would then start pouring in. Someone at CCP had to believe all this and then convince the decision makers as well.
When they come to the realization in about another month that most of those accounts gone inactive are not coming back like they expected. That the number of active accounts continue to trend downward. When they finally realize that this move intended to generate revenue has instead cost them thousands of accounts, they will then reinstate ghost training.
Lets hope its not too late by then.
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Andreas Syneticus
Infinitus Odium
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Posted - 2008.11.12 17:33:00 -
[5469]
I think the Ghost Training removal is fair on CCP's part. The only people *****ing about Ghost Training are those training up 10 Capital alts with the intention of selling... An exploitation of CCP's generosity imo. It could be far worse - EVE could have a skilling model based on your time spent in-game. *cringe*
I believe the lack of Ghost Training should pave the way for Skill Queue/Scheduling. If we're now paying for total skill development, give us the ability to stack a queue of skills. I'm paying for the time anyway, there should be no loss to CCP and I won't have to worry about missing out on hours/days of unused train time if I can't get online on a weekend. It's Win-Win.
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TU144 TEPPOPNCT'CMEPTHNK
Caldari State War Academy
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Posted - 2008.11.12 17:33:00 -
[5470]
Its perfectly understandable that CCP wants all the players paying to play, i had a look at that pdf of thier accounts 06/07, looks like they might have gotten slightly stung with the crash (i hope not too badly). they invested an obscene amount on new backend hardware and payroll (is that new fishtank standing on a gold plinth or something ???) so the year end profit margin has dropped a lot (god knows how 07/08/09 looks or is going to look like). overall its looking good, and i suspect theres gonna be nice new supper shiney next year (time to double the server floor space again).
CCP made little baby jesus cry by nerfing ghost training
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Tasty Bit
Gallente UNITED STAR SYNDICATE
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Posted - 2008.11.12 18:02:00 -
[5471]
To reply to the last 2 posters;
Andreas, they already stated they want people to log in and play, a queue would remove the requirement to log in.
And to T234hkk'234v- ok, it's a shame that their actions will reduce revenue. Great idea all round.
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Zebba
Gallente The Phoenix Rising
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Posted - 2008.11.12 19:33:00 -
[5472]
Originally by: Andreas Syneticus I think the Ghost Training removal is fair on CCP's part. The only people *****ing about Ghost Training are those training up 10 Capital alts with the intention of selling... An exploitation of CCP's generosity imo. It could be far worse - EVE could have a skilling model based on your time spent in-game. *cringe*
I believe the lack of Ghost Training should pave the way for Skill Queue/Scheduling. If we're now paying for total skill development, give us the ability to stack a queue of skills. I'm paying for the time anyway, there should be no loss to CCP and I won't have to worry about missing out on hours/days of unused train time if I can't get online on a weekend. It's Win-Win.
I think you are wrong. Many people that played EVE for years by now get from time to time bored and used the feature (which it was, stated somewhere along this thread) with the perspective to come back after a while. I used this especially when I was busy at university.
CCP should really care about what thousands of people wrote here by now. Everybody was able to use this feature since nobody was forced to use a CC in order to play.
I started paying by CC. At that time it was 15 Euros or 15 Dollars, so more for Europeans anyway. Later I switched to GTCs due to my studies.
This issue is not solved yet!
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Skylar Vodkabar
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Posted - 2008.11.12 19:46:00 -
[5473]
Ghost Training=Why anyone would come back to this game after being bored with it. Come back to a new ship, and renewed interest. All other MMO's, once you got bored, you moved on to another game.
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Georn
VIRTUAL LIFE VANGUARD Intrepid Crossing
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Posted - 2008.11.12 20:37:00 -
[5474]
Well, now all CCP has left to bring those back who had to cancel their accounts are cool new features in upcoming expansions, and the urge to revisit EVE that grips some every now and then.
The silver lining being: They have to concentrate on cool new features now even more than before.
____________ even Carebears have teeth |
ARDIUM
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Posted - 2008.11.12 21:15:00 -
[5475]
MASSIVE MISTAKE...
Change it back and show you're listening... otherwise you'll find out when you start cutting heads at your company...
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Jinx Barker
GFB Scientific
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Posted - 2008.11.12 22:11:00 -
[5476]
Originally by: Andreas Syneticus ...The only people *****ing about Ghost Training are those training up 10 Capital alts with the intention of selling....
I think you are miles away off target here. You see, when people make general and sweeping statements, it is usually an indicator of either a) lack of forethought, or b) ignorance on the subject of the discussion.
For example, since the African country of Nigeria is the source of the 401 Scam, and I say that based on that information ALL citizens of that country are scam artists, and are criminals, I would sound pretty foolish, wouldn't I?
Now, I have been playing EVE since 2003. At the height of my EVE addiction I have had (actually had to think about it) 5 accounts. I have scaled down to 2 now, both paid through the end of this year. So, following your logic, I must have been training capital ship ALTs right? And I do character farming? Correct? Because, anyone who is upset about CCP lying, two-stepping, covering up, and generally sewing allot of disinformation regarding the whole fiasco is a character farmer.
Now, of course, it has nothing to do with:
CCP has encouraged people for years to use multiple accounts. CCP has designed the game in such a way that users must purchase additional accounts in order to perfom many tasks which otherwise would take months, and years to be competent in. CCP has designed the Skill Tree that takes 35 Years (give or take) to train to L5.
CCP has encourage the P^2 Offers, and basically advertised the benefits of owning a second account.
CCP Developers touted the newly sinister-monikered "Ghost Training" as a feature for those of us who understand complexity of the game, and at the same time have other responsibilities like: extended military leave, business travel (for me personally I am sent by my employer to Brazil, France, England, China and Hong Kong on a regular basis), family obligations, etc - as means of maintaining our level of involvement within the game, so long as we pay the re-subscription fee. The training was never "free," in order to take advantage of that 30 day skill one had to re-subscribe, let's not forget that.
So, the message received by most of the community, in my humble opinion, is that:
a) EVE is no longer for adult players with more than a "game-as-a-second-job" on the plate.
b) CCP is not above trying to mislead their player-base by lying to them, or trying to convince them that the "sky is green", and "ghost-training was a bug".
c) CCP is happy with the 7 month average life-span of a character.
d) It is better to have a 7 month noob with 5 paid accounts for 7 months than a veteran player with 2 accounts for 3, or 5, or whatever, years. (if it makes any sense financially I do not know).
Only time will tell what the actual impact of this will be.
Playing EVE "hardcore" will burn out players, it burned me out number of times. It is imperative to take breaks, and 90% of the population will, at one point or another take such breaks. The unsubscribed training, or as it is now known by it's more sinister, and evil name, "Ghost Training," was one bright spot and hope for many players, even if they were not planing to take immediate advantage of it - at some point, if they play this game seriously - they would have to. It is a fact, many may not wish to admit it, but it is.
So, how many will not return? How many will simply say: "My 70 MilL SP character has lost 6 or 10 months while I was deployed, in the hospital, dealt with personal issues, and thus effectively 5, or 7, or 10 mill SP less than it could have been. I do not want to return, much rather just sell the character for real cash, and by a Wii."
We do not see the impact, not yet. But I am sure we will once the new year will roll out. The change is a profound one, and not for the better.
I am very sorry to see this happen to the game I liked so much.
::::Click The Signature For the Blog::::
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Traven Enril
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Posted - 2008.11.12 22:30:00 -
[5477]
I would rather see it kept in, but I wouldn't mind if the amount of time skills will train while unsubscribed being shortened to say, a week. We all need a break sometimes, and it's nice for the people who don't have 5 alts to come back with a few days off a long skill. This was one of the things I liked most about Eve over other mmo's. It's an incentive to come back, and now it's gone.
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Corbin Swift
Minmatar WD-40
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Posted - 2008.11.12 22:37:00 -
[5478]
Originally by: Andreas Syneticus The only people *****ing about Ghost Training are those training up 10 Capital alts with the intention of selling... An exploitation of CCP's generosity imo.
Untrue, I played Eve for several months straight after I discovered it. Unfortunately the amount of time I spent playing had an adverse effect on my RL so I decided I had to quit. Before I left, one of my corpies told me to put on a long skill and explained that if I ever decided to come back that the skill would be completed.
Six months later I decided to try out Eve again, and I liked some of the new features. But again, RL is more important, so I decided to try playing a month on and a month off. I've paid for 6 months in the last year because it keeps my skills advancing and keeps the game interesting, and I'm not falling behind my wingmen.
"Ghost training" is less useful than full-time training however. I have many level 3 skills which have been trained up during the months I'm playing. I have approximately the same number of level 4s and level 5s, and there really isn't all that much difference in the power of those skills. I get a 5% bonus here and there. I'd gladly trade 1 of my level 5s to get 6 level 3s up to level 4, but that's a price I pay for my decisions.
Now that CCP have removed this killer feature, I expect to play Eve for 2-3 months during the next year. I don't think it'll be as much fun though, and I'm going to try out the other space-based MMOs. I can't say right now whether I'll still be p(l)aying a year from now. That's a price that CCP will have to pay for their decision.
Oh yeah, my point was, you're wrong.
Corbin (four days left)
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Gus Gallente
Dark Star Cartel Molotov Coalition
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Posted - 2008.11.12 23:10:00 -
[5479]
Edited by: Gus Gallente on 12/11/2008 23:13:54 Edited by: Gus Gallente on 12/11/2008 23:10:38
Quote: As the recent news stated, we will disable the ability to train skills on a suspended account. Since this has caused a lot of debate we've decided to explain why we are making this change in a new Dev Blog by t0rfifrans: Why ghost training was disabled.
Yeah, right.
When the t20 scandal hit, my trust in CCP was seriously shaken. After all, players had CCP's word that any dev caught cheating would be terminated, period. Then, due to some kind of extraneous circumstances (malarkey), they reneged on their promise to the players, as well as engaging in a pretty shady cover-up. I was quite shocked at these decisions, and chose to boycott CCP for some time to demonstrate my concern over this type of decision making. Before I cancelled my account, however, my CEO advised me to set a long skill to train. I, being a drones fanatic, chose Sentry Drones V even though there were no Tech II Sentry Drones in-game yet. I made sure to make it a point to let people know that my boycott would end when CCP added Tech II Sentry drones. Some time after those drones were added I came back, albeit begrudgingly. I must admit, though, that I've enjoyed my time in-game since I've been back. I realize as only one player, my boycott was not likely a substantial figure in CCP's bottom line. My return was somewhat arbitrary. But without ghost training as a motivation, I would have never returned.
Then we were lied to again about the patch that contained "no nerfs," just a "boost" to Amarr. Malarkey. It was a nerf to every ship in the game's resistances. And again, with the disabling of "ghost training" being called a "bug."
Now, CCP is on pretty thin ice with me because of the large crew of jackhammer operators they used to do a scalpel's duty in fixing "ludicrous speed." Granted, something needed to be done, but it seems like they went to great lengths to ignore and/or infuriate their players again. The result is that I'm debating leaving again, and they've removed the one thing that could have brought me back.
I'm not *****ing about the disabling of ghost training. I'm *****ing about CCP blatantly flaunting the fact that they run their company like a bunch of lying *****es. Seriously, this crap begins to remind me of the U.S. Tobacco industry insisting that they don't put addatives in their cigarettes, that they don't cause lung cancer, and that they don't deliberately attempt to appeal to children in their advertisements. The irony is not lost on me that MMORPG's are also about as addictive as nicotine, either.
--- It's never just a game when you're winning. - George Carlin |
Soma Khan
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Posted - 2008.11.13 00:07:00 -
[5480]
Originally by: Jinx Barker You see, when people make general and sweeping statements, it is usually an indicator of either a) lack of forethought, or b) ignorance on the subject of the discussion.
Funny you should say that, 'cause once you stop clowning and attempt to present an argument, only one of your sweeping generalizations is qualified with an "IMHO".
Well, IMHO, 99% of the statements made by the 'gimmeh back mah freebeh' herd in this thread are exactly the same kind of generalizations you've described. ___
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Jinx Barker
GFB Scientific
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Posted - 2008.11.13 00:37:00 -
[5481]
Originally by: Soma Khan
Originally by: Jinx Barker You see, when people make general and sweeping statements, it is usually an indicator of either a) lack of forethought, or b) ignorance on the subject of the discussion.
Funny you should say that, 'cause once you stop clowning and attempt to present an argument, only one of your sweeping generalizations is qualified with an "IMHO".
Well, IMHO, 99% of the statements made by the 'gimmeh back mah freebeh' herd in this thread are exactly the same kind of generalizations you've described.
I am sorry? Did I do something nasty to your cornflakes? In any event, one does not have to begin a statement with "in my honest opinion" for it not to be a generalization. I thought I qualified my remarks, thruought the disaster of what has happened fairly succinctly and accurately. I have stayed away from generalizing, unlike others - and, finally, everything I have in my above post happens to be true, and on point.
What I do see about you, however, is that you seem intent on trolling, and have not lost your "fan-boy" epaulets, yet. Given time, I am sure you will feel the same way many people who agree with me feel, betrayed by CCP, and embarrassed by their lies, and foolishness. It is rather *****, that I am embarrassed by their lies to me, and it is not the other way around.
Of course, it is possible, that you have not been in this game from the very beginning, and do not really feel strongly offended when someone lies to you, or tries to obfuscate the truth, especially if it is the same people whom you have grown to trust over the years, and you will just quit, without fighting for something you strongly believe in.
On the other hand, it is entirely possible that you were just unable to properly express yourself through complex sentences, and that is why it would appear you are trolling. In that case, I apologize for implying that you are trolling, and would suggest a night school, and a few books that do not contain pictures.
Regards,
JB.
::::Click The Signature For the Blog::::
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Chani Fedaykin
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Posted - 2008.11.13 00:46:00 -
[5482]
Originally by: Soma Khan
Originally by: Jinx Barker You see, when people make general and sweeping statements, it is usually an indicator of either a) lack of forethought, or b) ignorance on the subject of the discussion.
Funny you should say that, 'cause once you stop clowning and attempt to present an argument, only one of your sweeping generalizations is qualified with an "IMHO".
Well, IMHO, 99% of the statements made by the 'gimmeh back mah freebeh' herd in this thread are exactly the same kind of generalizations you've described.
oh - how amusing ... he is still alive ^^
funny thing is that there are still more enough posters who disagree with ccp's move that bring up valid points and clear line of argumentation, whereas there is an absolut lack of supporters, that are able to show any valid reasons against the complaints that are raised in this thread.
i am still missing any valid 'pro' arguments from you, that (at least try to) respond to the well articulated and argumented posts in this thread. but most likely your lack of possible argumentation prevents you from doing so. which ofc still allows you to pick out those parts of posts, that make it possible to you to keep trolling without the need to actually bring up something usefull and/or any valid arguments. |
Aragonis
DROW Org Brotherhood of the Spider
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Posted - 2008.11.13 00:50:00 -
[5483]
All of this is hilarious. They're deploying a bugfix to remove a feature that isn't faulty and that doesn't adversly affect any players, and it's going to cost them a big pile of money when people drop their secondary accounts.
Here's a solution CCP - when you start losing money after doing this, go to Comedy Central and sell them the meeting minutes from when you decided to go forward with this, they'll find it hilarious. You'll make millions.
Morons ¼_¼ --- http://www.ninjacodingmonkey.co.uk/ |
Soma Khan
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Posted - 2008.11.13 01:13:00 -
[5484]
Originally by: Chani Fedaykin oh - how amusing ... he is still alive ^^
...
You are easily amused.
What is not really amusing is the fact that you are still posting despite the fact that clearly you are not wanted here. You've been relegated to a pariah thread that is rarely looked at, whose life is only contingent on most of your accounts running out, at which time it will sink to the bottom even if the mods forget to lock it. Do you not have any basic pride? What it is is sad.
The "supporters" you speak of are too busy enjoying themselves playing the game and/or having a life to be posting "valid reasoning" here for whoever's benefit. You all seem to be suffering under a delusion that anyone cares. ___
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Delos Korelian
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Posted - 2008.11.13 01:45:00 -
[5485]
Originally by: Soma Khan What is not really amusing is the fact that you are still posting despite the fact that clearly you are not wanted here. You've been relegated to a pariah thread that is rarely looked at, whose life is only contingent on most of your accounts running out, at which time it will sink to the bottom even if the mods forget to lock it. Do you not have any basic pride? What it is is sad.
The "supporters" you speak of are too busy enjoying themselves playing the game and/or having a life to be posting "valid reasoning" here for whoever's benefit. You all seem to be suffering under a delusion that anyone cares.
And that is exactly why things run their course, and eventually die, no one cares, just like you "do not care"... right.
It just so happens that most people do not want to see dishonesty and deceit from the people who are supposedly designing the very game we play. And yes, many of us are biding time till our accounts expire, and this thread goes the same way many other things went in this game, to hell in a hand basket.
I feel strongly about what CCP did, but my life, fortunately, is not contingent, like you claim, on my account running out, it simply goes on. Eventually it will be irrelevant if EVE exists or not. Until my fully paid account expires I will observe and post here, and hope for an apology from CCP for the lies, and disinformation campaign they have waged. When it expires so be it, and you will be happy, because, again, you say you "do not care"....
You also are very hard at work trying to convince us that no one cares, but apparently you do! You care enough to come here and troll in this "rarely looked at" thread and all that jazz. So, since you actually appear to care, there is hope still. Since if someone like you cares enough to troll, someone better than you cares enough to actually read, and listen, and think, and not spit out mindless rubbish.
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Delos Korelian
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Posted - 2008.11.13 01:49:00 -
[5486]
Oh! Look, now we know why CCP needed extra cash, they do not need vets anymore, they can just take some extra from ebil ghost-trainers, and get some more wow-babies into the game for some short term cash at the expense of the long term players.
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Fiona Mars
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.11.13 01:59:00 -
[5487]
Edited by: Fiona Mars on 13/11/2008 02:18:54 Edited by: Fiona Mars on 13/11/2008 02:00:58
Originally by: Chani Fedaykin
i am still missing any valid 'pro' arguments from you, that (at least try to) respond to the well articulated and argumented posts in this thread. but most likely your lack of possible argumentation prevents you from doing so.
In terms of pro-arguments, I'd just throw my weight in behind CCP's own arguement. The counter arguements seem to me to amount to, "Give me my free sh*t back." You're paying for a service, and as far as I'm concerned, the service provider is free to adjust the terms of that service at any point. You can voice your dissatisfaction and leave.
But the fact that this thread now has 180+ pages of complaints does nothing but serve to indicate the scale of this financial exploit. If I were a CCP shareholder, I'd be cheering them on. They were giving players something for nothing. That's a really bad buisness model, don't ya think?
Truth is, games companies, while they make games, always end up looking at the bottom line. I'm sure we've all seen this sort of thing before - I'd mention Games Workshop and Wizards of the Coast as prime candidates - where a games company makes a decision based on the bottom line, not the players. It hurts. Just like gate-camps.
But that's just buisness, nothing personal. Pen-and-paper role players have been used to this sort of treatment for years. MMOs will go the same way, particularly in the current financial climate. Just get used to it. |
Darkeen
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.11.13 02:32:00 -
[5488]
Originally by: Andreas Syneticus I think the Ghost Training removal is fair on CCP's part. The only people *****ing about Ghost Training are those training up 10 Capital alts with the intention of selling... An exploitation of CCP's generosity imo. It could be far worse - EVE could have a skilling model based on your time spent in-game. *cringe*
Actually, paying for the accounts greatly outweighs the cost you'll get back from selling the characters. And if you can fund the cost of the characters then you obviously dont need to sell characters for isk! This type of reasoning, whilst I too thought it was correct, when you do the math it works out to be completely incorrect...
Regards,
Jason Brisbane
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Corbin Swift
Minmatar WD-40
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Posted - 2008.11.13 03:14:00 -
[5489]
Originally by: Fiona Mars If I were a CCP shareholder, I'd be cheering them on. They were giving players something for nothing. That's a really bad buisness model, don't ya think?
Ok, so following your logic CCP should stop giving out a 14-day trial and stop publishing trailers. They should also charge for expansions, and perhaps even for responding to petitions. Those cost CCP hard cash in the form of bandwidth bills and production/staffing costs. At least you're not a troll, but I disagree with your statement.
I came back to this forum to relate what happened when I was playing Eve tonight. I was talking to an old capsuleer I used to fly with and I mentioned that I'm quitting and I don't know when or if I'll be back. So I wished him a Merry Xmas and Happy New Year and so on. He told me I should put on a long skill before I left, because he hadn't heard about this "bug-fix". He didn't believe me at first, but I told him there was a big fuss about it on the forums. I suppose he doesn't read them. He may be reading them now, because the chat window stayed open and I continued talking but he didn't respond. I also had a similar convo with another pilot last weekend, and another the weekend before that. None of them had heard about this issue, and they all seemed annoyed by it.
tldr version There seems to be a lot of people out there that don't know about this issue yet. So I don't think this thread is gonna die off anytime soon. People will decide to take a break in 3 or 4 months time and the topic of setting a long skill will come up in a conversation with their wingmen. They'll be told you can't do that. There'll be no goodies for you when you come back. So what's gonna bring them back?
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Nannu Who
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Posted - 2008.11.13 03:40:00 -
[5490]
Edited by: Nannu Who on 13/11/2008 03:43:33
Originally by: Fiona Mars
In terms of pro-arguments, I'd just throw my weight in behind CCP's own arguement. The counter arguements seem to me to amount to, "Give me my free sh*t back." You're paying for a service, and as far as I'm concerned, the service provider is free to adjust the terms of that service at any point. You can voice your dissatisfaction and leave.
You know what the Atari retail box will symbolize to me?
This is CCP gearing up for a new wave of players they know they need.
People who will come fresh into eve and know nothing of any CCP fiasco.
It's good to know that they have plans beyond the current alienated user base.
We have no right to feel as important as the new folk CCP wish to attract to eve.
The game is changing, and it's not for the current eve users, but for players of CCPs future.
You don't like the changes? Well maybe they were not meant for you, but the people yet to join.
"A new vision of eve is being assembled & now you know why you no longer feel apart of it."
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Lorac Caladon
Caldari The Cowboy Junkies
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Posted - 2008.11.13 03:54:00 -
[5491]
Originally by: Fiona Mars The counter arguements seem to me to amount to, "Give me my free sh*t back." You're paying for a service, and as far as I'm concerned, the service provider is free to adjust the terms of that service at any point. You can voice your dissatisfaction and leave.
But the fact that this thread now has 180+ pages of complaints does nothing but serve to indicate the scale of this financial exploit. If I were a CCP shareholder, I'd be cheering them on. They were giving players something for nothing. That's a really bad buisness model, don't ya think?
No. I think you are wrong. In fact, I think you could not be MORE wrong. 2 words: "Customer Retention". In real live, you don't just hang out a sign saying "open for business" and sit back and rake in cash. You have to actually set yourself apart. CCP USED to do this. Now they don't. You are right on 1 point though, the best way to protest is to leave. Enjoy your version of EVE...it will be a lot different.
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Chani Fedaykin
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Posted - 2008.11.13 07:01:00 -
[5492]
Originally by: Soma Khan
Originally by: Chani Fedaykin oh - how amusing ... he is still alive ^^
...
You are easily amused.
What is not really amusing is the fact that you are still posting despite the fact that clearly you are not wanted here. You've been relegated to a pariah thread that is rarely looked at, whose life is only contingent on most of your accounts running out, at which time it will sink to the bottom even if the mods forget to lock it. Do you not have any basic pride? What it is is sad.
The "supporters" you speak of are too busy enjoying themselves playing the game and/or having a life to be posting "valid reasoning" here for whoever's benefit. You all seem to be suffering under a delusion that anyone cares.
its better to be amused than to take you serious ... which no sane person should do, otherwise he will join the same level that you happen to show. speaking about generalisation ... a word that you happened to use before ... what makes you think i am not wanted and you are ... in general at least i seem to have more pride than certain other ppl (no need to mention names here, its just obvious). compared to those i present a clear line of argumentation ... at least if i am not responding to your - amusing - posts, which sadly hold no points worth using real arguments.
if the supporters are too busy, you seem to judge yourself as not beeing one, which is obviously a flaw in logic. so if you still are a supporter, you either dont enjoy eve or have no life ... or both - just using your own logic to try and apply it to the fact, that you still post.
besides making posts with valid points or just trolling makes a difference ... so perhaps trolling in combination with your logic still makes a supporter beeing able to enjoy eve and/or have a life and still make useless posts holding no real argumentation considering the topic.
i am glad that i have the 'delusion' that someone cares - if no one cares about a game it would only tell me, that the game is already dead. however perhaps you just lack the possibility to express yourself (as someone else suggested already) and you wanted to explain that no one cares about the removal of an earlier advertised feature and the sudden classification as bug - going in line with obvious incorrect reasons about the motivation behind the whole move. even if this would have been your attempt to make a point, its obviously flawed again, because if that would be correct, no one would post here
keep going, perhaps you are able to surprise me... |
Chani Fedaykin
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Posted - 2008.11.13 07:07:00 -
[5493]
Originally by: Fiona Mars In terms of pro-arguments, I'd just throw my weight in behind CCP's own arguement. The counter arguements seem to me to amount to, "Give me my free sh*t back." You're paying for a service, and as far as I'm concerned, the service provider is free to adjust the terms of that service at any point. You can voice your dissatisfaction and leave.
its nice to see that you support ccp's reasons, especially because the 'reasons' have been taken apart and proven wrong by several posts in this thread already. so if you still stick to this version and claim this are valid arguments, there is nothing to be said anymore.
the fact, that the service provider is allowed to change the game mechanics at any time is known, and not the reason why (most) ppl are upset ... as has been pointed out several times already - so try to get a clue before posting |
Fiona Mars
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.11.13 09:32:00 -
[5494]
Originally by: Corbin Swift
Originally by: Fiona Mars If I were a CCP shareholder, I'd be cheering them on. They were giving players something for nothing. That's a really bad business model, don't ya think?
Ok, so following your logic CCP should stop giving out a 14-day trial and stop publishing trailers. They should also charge for expansions, and perhaps even for responding to petitions. Those cost CCP hard cash in the form of bandwidth bills and production/staffing costs. At least you're not a troll, but I disagree with your statement.
Thanks for de-trollifying me.
My logic is not flawed. Ever since the first (or was it the second) QEN, weÆve known that the average life of an EVE account is only 7 months. A 7 month player might come back after a prolonged absence, having made use of Ghost training, but given a player base of a quarter million, thatÆs not going to be all. My point is that CCPÆs business model looks like it is focusing primarily on getting new subs, because they know that be far and away the lionÆs share of their revenue comes from noobs, not people using ghost training and coming back later. By that logic, the 14-day free trials are a great way of getting new players.
Originally by: Lorac Caladon
Originally by: Fiona Mars If I were a CCP shareholder, I'd be cheering them on. They were giving players something for nothing. That's a really bad buisness model, don't ya think?
No. I think you are wrong. In fact, I think you could not be MORE wrong. 2 words: "Customer Retention". In real live, you don't just hang out a sign saying "open for business" and sit back and rake in cash. You have to actually set yourself apart. CCP USED to do this. Now they don't.
Secondly (and this is a response to LoracÆs post too), they are gearing up for some massive changes. Walking in Stations, T3, and so on. CCP will be banking that these advances in the game will be enough to tempt older accounts back, even with the ghost training feature removed. Free expansions will actually lead to a jump in reactivations (see BlizzardÆs financial figures for proof that paid(!) expansions lead to renewed subs), so theyÆll make their money that way. The point is that by 7 months playing the game, most players feel theyÆve explored everything the game has to offer. It takes new material to tempt them back, ghost training or not.
As for CCP no longer setting themselves apart û IÆd say they still do. As a single shard MMO, EVE is second to none. And CCP are doing a great job of uping their game. (Have you noticed the reduced lag this week?)
Originally by: Chani Fedaykin
its nice to see that you support ccp's reasons, especially because the 'reasons' have been taken apart and proven wrong by several posts in this thread already. so if you still stick to this version and claim this are valid arguments, there is nothing to be said anymore.
the fact, that the service provider is allowed to change the game mechanics at any time is known, and not the reason why (most) ppl are upset ... as has been pointed out several times already - so try to get a clue before posting
Chani, will all due respect, I wasnÆt referring to CCP changing the game mechanics, I was referring to CCP changing the terms of service. ThatÆs what this threadÆs all about. Please take the time to not only read, but understand a post before you reply. CCPÆs reasons make perfect economic sense. They just suck from a gamerÆs perspective. IÆve read these reasons being dismantled from that perspective, but not from an economic perspective. Financially, CCP need to focus on new 7 month long accounts, coupled with the hope that their new material will be good enough on its own merit to tempt lapsed players to renew.
Originally by: Nannu Who
You know what the Atari retail box will symbolize to me? This is CCP gearing up for a new wave of players they know they need...
Totally agree. Less of the moaning, it doesn't do anything for me. |
Zebba
Gallente The Phoenix Rising
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Posted - 2008.11.13 09:59:00 -
[5495]
Lately we saw the introduction of the 60-days GTC and the removal of the 30-days GTC. I think we all agree this had quite an effect on ghost training already. With this change even a GTC-payed account would be payed roughly 75% of the year.
Now when I first came across the removal of ghost training I was wondering where it was stated from the player base that this might be a bug in the game. Taking a look into the Assembly Hall forum I finally found a 4 pages thread about the topic 8http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=786801). Now if you read carefully through this thread you see a lot of disagreement and also a very different idea by the player-base. People were not complaining about SP-gain while being offline but their concern was the RP-gain. From what I understood the CSM was meant to give voice to the players. This should have been a topic for the 2nd CSM meeting...
I do understand CCP's economic point of view but as it was stated by others as well: their information politics failed! They did not make sure this important change in gameplay was taken to every player out there. CCP happily sends out newsletter for every expansion they publish so why did they refuse to provide this important information to make sure 99% of the player-base know about it?
Where was the information about disabling ghost training other then in the only accessable for active account players news center and the forum a regular inactive player would not take a look into?
Oh and by the way: if ghost training was not an intended feature as CCP stated in the blog (http://myeve.eve-online.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&bid=592) what was the original idea behind it?
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Revan Crow
Minmatar KraehenKlaue
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Posted - 2008.11.13 10:47:00 -
[5496]
now let me train more then one char on my account at once and i will be less unhappy.
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Jinx Barker
GFB Scientific
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Posted - 2008.11.13 11:32:00 -
[5497]
Originally by: Revan Crow now let me train more then one char on my account at once and i will be less unhappy.
I am sorry, haven't you heard? The idea is to squeeze as much money as possible from, in many respects, an already strained community, not make it easier for the consumer. You must be a marxist or something! I mean, why care?!
Why care at all about the people who have been with CCP for many years? They got Atari now! Sure, they will sell their little box in Best Buy and Game Stop, sure, they will get some more customers to replenish the ones they have upset.
But the upside is this:
1) No more whiney veterans, who think they are owed something after 5 years of putting up with bugs, scandals, lies, and sub-par product.
2) No more whiney veterans who would upset the balance of the game by just being there, since you know, the noobies will complain about the advantage of them older characters when compared to their noobie ones. (CCP Will fix that, every character will start with 25 Mill SP next year)
Feel free to add other ridiculous things, but it would appear that this is where we are headed.
::::Click The Signature For the Blog::::
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Darth Vaders
Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2008.11.13 11:34:00 -
[5498]
I support the recent change. It was like an exploit before. It's fair people to pay for a service they use. |
Sandy Minge
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Posted - 2008.11.13 12:14:00 -
[5499]
Originally by: Darth Vaders I support the recent change. It was like an exploit before. It's fair people to pay for a service they use.
I fully endorse this post and therefore I demand 84 additional hours of gametime for my 60d GTC! The reason is the patchday where I havent been able to play for a whole day and the sceduled downtimes. 60D Game Time Card means 60 Days which equals 24 hours - however I am losing 1 hour per day which ammounts to 60 hours per Game time card!
It's fair people recieve the service they pay for!
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Shoukei
Caldari Boobs Ahoy
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Posted - 2008.11.13 13:04:00 -
[5500]
Originally by: Sandy Minge
Originally by: Darth Vaders I support the recent change. It was like an exploit before. It's fair people to pay for a service they use.
I fully endorse this post and therefore I demand 84 additional hours of gametime for my 60d GTC! The reason is the patchday where I havent been able to play for a whole day and the sceduled downtimes. 60D Game Time Card means 60 Days which equals 24 hours - however I am losing 1 hour per day which ammounts to 60 hours per Game time card!
It's fair people recieve the service they pay for!
I for one demand my game time to be reimbursed! Lets start a threadnought!
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Iskalen Mobius
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Posted - 2008.11.13 13:32:00 -
[5501]
Originally by: Avon
Hey, your bug...
Skills continue training even if you are logged off or if your account is inactive
I found it in the player guide.
You guys better get in there and ninja-edit it.
Wow, I've been playing Eve since Feb and this is my first post on the forums...
I was vaguely aware of this issue, but actually came here to find out about the recent nerfing of my Raven and thought I'd catch up on the background of why ghost skills were killed.
Frankly I'm dumbfounded for all the reasons previously described - I can't believe CCP could be so stupid to shoot themselves in the foot this badly!
At least they could have sweetened the deal by activating skill queues at the same time, since the reason for not having them is no longer extant. That might have distracted slightly from the naked greed and lies of justification we've had to suffer...
As for ghost skills, yes I have 'partaken', BECAUSE it was advertised as a feature. As a busy man in his thirties I was grateful that a company could be so thoughtful to have such a feature when RL got in the way all too often.
Anyway, my next end of sub is the 7th of Dec (anniversary of Pearl Harbour!) and I will be suspending my account indefinitely out of protest!
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Iskalen Mobius
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Posted - 2008.11.13 13:39:00 -
[5502]
Edited by: Iskalen Mobius on 13/11/2008 13:41:05 Just a suggestion...
I'm seriously thinking of setting up a 'Ghost Corp Movement' where players who want to register their dissatisfaction could join as their subs run out and promptly go inactive.
It would be interesting how many members we could get - could it even become the biggest (and most inactive!) corp in EVE...!?
If anyone's interested in the idea, contact me so I can guage the response...
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Jinx Barker
GFB Scientific
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Posted - 2008.11.13 13:50:00 -
[5503]
Edited by: Jinx Barker on 13/11/2008 13:52:54
Originally by: Darth Vaders I support the recent change. It was like an exploit before. It's fair people to pay for a service they use.
If you want to be such a stickler for detail, then CCP would go bankrupt reimbursing the lost game time, lost skill time, lost SP, and whatever the hell else their Log allegedly "don't show" to the players.
It is less of a problem with the change, and more of the problem that some members of the CCP Developer Team, who shall remain unnamed here, have lied, and tried to deceive the community, trying to convince us all that it is a bug that they overlooked for 5 years. Then, that it is a some sort of terrible load on their DB, come on, would you believe that? That inactive characters are "crippling" the EVE DB, how ridiculous of a lie is that?
Anyway, it is the point that DEVELOPER(S) LIED and DECEIVED, unsuccessfully, but they still did, so it counts. And then they went and silently buried it all, what I want from them is:
1) Apology. 2) Disciplinary actions against people involved in the cover up and against people who publicly lied to the community. 3) A referendum on the "Unsubscribed" training issue, where EVE players decide what they think by voting. Of course, a game wide eve-mail to every user with a "Yes/or No Question" - and then a tally.
Worst that happens, someone on the outside world would notice this thread, and CCP gets another: "Lying and deceiving developer team mark" in addition to the "cheating" developer team mark they already have.
I know I wont get true contrition, the "new" CCP never remorseful about anything, I know they will not discipline the lying #$@@!$%^ who pretty much insulted the community with their lies. And, if the referendum, an honest referendum ever happens in this game while I am still alive, I would whet myself.
So, for now, I will just try to embarrass at least an apology from the CCP. Maybe one of the leading people there has a sense of decency, and will own up to their mistakes, and will apologize for the lies, and for the deceit, and for the misinformation.
::::Click The Signature For the Blog::::
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Fiona Mars
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.11.13 14:02:00 -
[5504]
Originally by: Jinx Barker
3) A referendum on the "Unsubscribed" training issue, where EVE players decide what they think by voting. Of course, a game wide eve-mail to every user with a "Yes/or No Question" - and then a tally. And, if the referendum, an honest referendum ever happens in this game while I am still alive, I would whet myself.
CCP are a commercial enterprise. Grow up. Or do you expect Starbucks to ballot thier coffee drinkers every time a latte goes up a couple of cents? Get passed "CCP are our buddy gamers" to see that "CCP have shareholders" and you'll be better man.
BTW, whet means to sharpen with a stone. I'd pay to see you do that to yourself. But that's maybe a horrible image, so I'm going back under a rock now. |
Talsha Talamar
Amarr Nebula Rasa Holdings Nebula Rasa
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Posted - 2008.11.13 15:24:00 -
[5505]
Edited by: Talsha Talamar on 13/11/2008 15:26:31
Originally by: Fiona Mars
The counter arguments seem to me to amount to...[b lah]
Well you either spend not much time actually reading the countless different prior posts that not only deconstructed CCPs argument, but show exactly what is, a) economically and b) morally wrong about this decision, or you lack any kind of critical thinking.
Again for you in a nutshell: a)The issue is not about challenging the legal "right" of CCP to change their TOS.
b) The issue is about the series of hidden prize increases imposed on the playerbase without clear and open communication, the GTC changes alone raised subscription prices by at least 30%.
c) The issue is about the countless outright lies and the orwellian style propaganda, that have been employed trying to justify this change.
d) The issue is about officially and explicitly advertising something as a unique game feature for years and then just calling it a bug right into the face of us, the customers.
e) The issue is about making this change on a few days notice, ruining the skill plans of players that made use of this official and legitimate feature to nurture their secondary accounts towards some usability.
The players are giving CCP money to play the game.
The players were giving CCP trust by putting money in the long term investment that skilling a secondary character represents.
The players were giving CCP dedication by actually loving the game enough to dedicate even more of their financial resources and time to it.
That behavior of the playerbase gave CCP income and profitably.
Originally by: Fiona Mars "They were giving players something for nothing."
This is the base line of the very limited numbers of supporters of this change.
Your whole post iterates through different variations of this argument not providing anything else or new.
I sincerly hope you are trolling, since this alt of yours made its first post ever on the 28th of October of this year.
If you are not trolling, then you suffer from a very faulty understanding of the term "Justice" from the point of view of economic as well as social relations.
P.S.: You know that starbucks profits recently dropped by 97%, they had to close down a majority of their outlets and lay off most of their workforce.
Excellent example for your point. Thank you.
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Tivookz
Caldari IMPERIAL SENATE Pure.
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Posted - 2008.11.13 16:06:00 -
[5506]
Originally by: Fiona Mars
Originally by: Jinx Barker
3) A referendum on the "Unsubscribed" training issue, where EVE players decide what they think by voting. Of course, a game wide eve-mail to every user with a "Yes/or No Question" - and then a tally. And, if the referendum, an honest referendum ever happens in this game while I am still alive, I would whet myself.
CCP are a commercial enterprise. Grow up. Or do you expect Starbucks to ballot thier coffee drinkers every time a latte goes up a couple of cents? Get passed "CCP are our buddy gamers" to see that "CCP have shareholders" and you'll be better man.
BTW, whet means to sharpen with a stone. I'd pay to see you do that to yourself. But that's maybe a horrible image, so I'm going back under a rock now.
So everytime someone makes a price increase, we, the customers are just supposed to swallow that?
No, we go somewhere else.
Making a price increase or changing something that will force people to buy more might satisfy the shareholders because on paper it will look like they will earn more money but that piece of paper don't speak the voices of the customers.
Ghost training is an excellent example of that.
OK if EVE was the only MMO on the market I could understand Torfi, because then it's either their way or the highway.
However, we have enough mmo's to choose from today that it would take several lifetimes to play them all as much as we've played EVE. __________________________________________________
Hating Cash Craving Productions since oct 15th 2008 |
Darth Vaders
Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2008.11.13 16:28:00 -
[5507]
Originally by: Iskalen Mobius
Anyway, my next end of sub is the 7th of Dec (anniversary of Pearl Harbour!) and I will be suspending my account indefinitely out of protest!
When that happens can i have your stuff? |
Darth Vaders
Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2008.11.13 16:31:00 -
[5508]
Originally by: Tivookz
So everytime someone makes a price increase, we, the customers are just supposed to swallow that?
No, we go somewhere else.
Great! And don't forget to give me all your stuff when you do that. |
Darth Vaders
Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2008.11.13 16:36:00 -
[5509]
Edited by: Darth Vaders on 13/11/2008 16:36:42
Originally by: Jinx Barker 3) A referendum on the "Unsubscribed" training issue, where EVE players decide what they think by voting. Of course, a game wide eve-mail to every user with a "Yes/or No Question" - and then a tally.
Worst that happens, someone on the outside world would notice this thread, and CCP gets another: "Lying and deceiving developer team mark" in addition to the "cheating" developer team mark they already have.
I know I wont get true contrition, the "new" CCP never remorseful about anything, I know they will not discipline the lying #$@@!$%^ who pretty much insulted the community with their lies. And, if the referendum, an honest referendum ever happens in this game while I am still alive, I would whet myself.
So, for now, I will just try to embarrass at least an apology from the CCP. Maybe one of the leading people there has a sense of decency, and will own up to their mistakes, and will apologize for the lies, and for the deceit, and for the misinformation.
I could have "cheated" using that trick with the ghost training but i didn't do it cause i think it's LAME and in all honesty i feel that Eve online will be a better place without the kind of people that were doing that on purpose.
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Tasty Bit
Gallente UNITED STAR SYNDICATE
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Posted - 2008.11.13 16:45:00 -
[5510]
Originally by: Darth Vaders Edited by: Darth Vaders on 13/11/2008 16:36:42
Originally by: Jinx Barker 3) A referendum on the "Unsubscribed" training issue, where EVE players decide what they think by voting. Of course, a game wide eve-mail to every user with a "Yes/or No Question" - and then a tally.
Worst that happens, someone on the outside world would notice this thread, and CCP gets another: "Lying and deceiving developer team mark" in addition to the "cheating" developer team mark they already have.
I know I wont get true contrition, the "new" CCP never remorseful about anything, I know they will not discipline the lying #$@@!$%^ who pretty much insulted the community with their lies. And, if the referendum, an honest referendum ever happens in this game while I am still alive, I would whet myself.
So, for now, I will just try to embarrass at least an apology from the CCP. Maybe one of the leading people there has a sense of decency, and will own up to their mistakes, and will apologize for the lies, and for the deceit, and for the misinformation.
I could have "cheated" using that trick with the ghost training but i didn't do it cause i think it's LAME and in all honesty i feel that Eve online will be a better place without the kind of people that were doing that on purpose.
Is it a trick and "cheating" if it's advertised as a feature by the people that make the game?
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Sandy Minge
Minmatar Minge Deep-Core-Drilling
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Posted - 2008.11.13 16:46:00 -
[5511]
Originally by: Darth Vaders
When that happens can i have your stuff?
Originally by: Darth Vaders
When that happens can i have your stuff?
Originally by: Darth Vaders
I could have "cheated" using that trick with the ghost training but i didn't do it cause i think it's LAME and in all honesty i feel that Eve online will be a better place without the kind of people that were doing that on purpose.
Oh what an adorable cute little troll you are! *cuddles Darth Vaders*
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Corbin Swift
Minmatar WD-40
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Posted - 2008.11.13 17:07:00 -
[5512]
Originally by: Darth Vaders I could have "cheated" using that trick with the ghost training but i didn't do it cause i think it's LAME and in all honesty i feel that Eve online will be a better place without the kind of people that were doing that on purpose.
The average age of a player in Eve is over 30. I know 2 players in game that are over 50. This level of maturity is one of the things I value about Eve. When you reach this age-group you will realise that we have many RL obligations that teenagers such as yourself don't have to worry about. Things like supporting our teenage children for instance. Our responsibilities demand that we take a break from Eve from time to time. I believe that trolls such as yourself see this as an opportunity for you to improve faster than some of the veterans and that is the real reason you support the removal of this feature.
Originally by: Darth Vaders When that happens can i have your stuff?
and
Great! And don't forget to give me all your stuff when you do that.
*sigh* I hear that kinda talk from RL children all the time too... So helpless... So innocent... So unable to figure out how the world really works...
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Emma Royd
Caldari Maddled Gommerils
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Posted - 2008.11.13 17:38:00 -
[5513]
Edited by: Emma Royd on 13/11/2008 17:39:53 I find it interesting that we've reached 180+ pages for one topic, personally I don't see a problem with it, I figure that if I'm not paying then I'm not playing. I'm not going to trawl through hundreds of posts to pick any particular comments.
Basically eve is a game, and has owners, the owners have decided that they want to change something and that's hacked off loads of people, but since they can quite easily cancel your account should it go inactive (you did read the EULA as you scrolled down it before you can hit the accept button didn't you?) I can't see any demanding argument to make them change their minds.
As for quitting the game? is it that extreme that you need to be able to train a skill while you're not actually playing the game? imo it's like me signing up for a college course, going for a couple of months, skipping a couple of months and kicking off about not learning anything.
Eve shouldn't be compared to anything real life, it's escapism, a game, and nothing more.
Without major changes to the way training works, I don't see a fairer way than no pay no train, if I take a break from eve, then surely my character takes a break too?
It's not often I'm wrong, apart from the comments I make in the signature, and then I'm often wrong. On the other hand maybe I'm getting confused. ......My head hurts :( |
Sandy Minge
Minmatar Minge Deep-Core-Drilling
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Posted - 2008.11.13 18:08:00 -
[5514]
Originally by: Emma Royd Edited by: Emma Royd on 13/11/2008 17:39:53 ... stuffz ...I'm not going to trawl through hundreds of posts to pick any particular comments.
blah ... blah ... rubbish
If you don;t have the dignity to read at least some of the posts already been made why should anyone bother replying to you properly?
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Corbin Swift
Minmatar WD-40
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Posted - 2008.11.13 18:17:00 -
[5515]
Originally by: Emma Royd imo it's like me signing up for a college course, going for a couple of months, skipping a couple of months and kicking off about not learning anything.
Eve shouldn't be compared to anything real life, it's escapism, a game, and nothing more.
If you get a chance, could you please explain how you managed to string these two sentences together? Is this some kind of neurolinguistic programming technique, where you use contradictory statements to fry the readers synapses?
thanks, Corbin
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Emma Royd
Caldari Maddled Gommerils
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Posted - 2008.11.13 18:51:00 -
[5516]
Originally by: Corbin Swift
If you get a chance, could you please explain how you managed to string these two sentences together? Is this some kind of neurolinguistic programming technique, where you use contradictory statements to fry the readers synapses?
thanks, Corbin
Doh! /me facepalms after realising my stupidity
And I wasn't asking for a reply, just putting over a point
It's not often I'm wrong, apart from the comments I make in the signature, and then I'm often wrong. On the other hand maybe I'm getting confused. ......My head hurts :( |
Chani Fedaykin
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Posted - 2008.11.13 18:55:00 -
[5517]
Originally by: "Fiona Mars" Chani, will all due respect, I wasnÆt referring to CCP changing the game mechanics, I was referring to CCP changing the terms of service. ThatÆs what this threadÆs all about. Please take the time to not only read, but understand a post before you reply. CCPÆs reasons make perfect economic sense. They just suck from a gamerÆs perspective. IÆve read these reasons being dismantled from that perspective, but not from an economic perspective. Financially, CCP need to focus on new 7 month long accounts, coupled with the hope that their new material will be good enough on its own merit to tempt lapsed players to renew.
this thread is (at least the relevant part, which still got no response from ccp) not about the removal of unpaid training (= the change of game mechanics = the change to the tos). at least my mayor (as long as others who stated exactly that) is how they tried to pretend it happened for reasons that stand no valid logical ground. as i stated a long time ago, i would still disagree with the economical benefit this decision will have for ccp - but if they would have told the truth, i would have just adjusted my play style (as others will and would have done too). but i would not blame ccp for making this decision, because its their right ... as stated several times before again. however the way they presented obviously unrealistic reasons instead of giving their true motivation for this move is just plain stupid and not acceptable imo.
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Fiona Mars
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.11.13 19:06:00 -
[5518]
Edited by: Fiona Mars on 13/11/2008 19:09:22
Originally by: Talsha Talamar Well you either spend not much time actually reading the countless different prior posts that not only deconstructed CCPs argument, but show exactly what is, a) economically and b) morally wrong about this decision, or you lack any kind of critical thinking.
IÆm willing to concede this as a troll issue. I say it is a financially sound move, you say itÆs not. Time alone will tell. I almost certain EVEÆs player base will continue to grow.
Regarding the morality of it, is it robbery? Have they taken something you paid for from you? Or have they removed what was in fact a gratis service? The removal of something graciously given cannot be considered morally wrong because there was no moral impetus for it to be provided in the first place.
Stop talking utterly daft nonsense.
Lemme answer your other points.
a) Reading some posts, and your nonsense about CCPÆs immoral action in removing ghost-training, IÆd say you are contesting their ôlegal rightö to do this. One poster today even suggested CCP hold a referendum on the issue. People are making silly challenges to the right of CCP to make this change.
b) This isnÆt a hidden price increase. CCP told everyone they were going to do it.
c) Calling it Orwellian is a matter of perspective.
d) IÆve honestly not see anyone post a link to anywhere stating explicitly the Ghost-Training was a legit feature. IÆm willing to concede the point only if you can show me something written by the hand of a CCP employee saying it was, (e.g. an old EULA).
e) The ôfew days noticeö means it wasnÆt a hidden price increase, stupid.
Honestly, this was a decision implemented poorly. But once it was made, I donÆt think there was any way of saying it better. Even if it had been a legitimate feature, CCPÆs stated position is that G-T was increasing. Reading between the lines, IÆd say that G-T wasnÆt only increasing, but eating into what their very bright accounts would call ôprofitsö. So even if it was a legitimate feature, it could still be changed. It was never going to be pleasant.
Quote:
I sincerly hope you are trolling, since this alt of yours made its first post ever on the 28th of October of this year.
My first post was on 28th October. IÆm sorry that you think that invalidates my opinion. I think youÆre a tube, does that invalidate yours?
Games companies are increasingly screwing over their players. My argument is that you just live with it, because, for all your ire, youÆre not going to change CCPÆs mind on this. IÆm willing to bet this thread just getÆs them into a sort of siege mode, where they stop listening to even the sensible stuff people say û like the reasonable request for a skill queue.
Quote: You know that starbucks profits recently dropped by 97%, they had to close down a majority of their outlets and lay off most of their workforce.
Excellent example for your point. Thank you.
Rubbish. Starbucks had oversaturated the market with franchises while they were still fairly unique. The growing number of equally bland (but equally priced) competitors seeking to follow the same business plan is why they suffered staggering losses. Not because people thought they were too expensive. Why cross the street and walk 100 yards to Starbucks when you can walk 20 yards on this side of the street to go to PretÆ.
YouÆve just shown yourself up mate.
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Fiona Mars
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.11.13 19:19:00 -
[5519]
Originally by: Chani Fedaykin
however the way they presented obviously unrealistic reasons instead of giving their true motivation for this move is just plain stupid and not acceptable imo.
I don't think there was ever going to be a good spin to put on this decision. It's totally pants, but it was the accounts department that made this decision. And by the looks of things, not many CCP accounts play EVE.
You can just imagine the guys in the devs office. An email comes down from above - we've decided to cut ghost-training, decide amoung yourselves who's going to tell the players. Maybe they have a clench of short straws for these occasions. |
Swoopdeath
Skorpid Industries
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Posted - 2008.11.13 19:49:00 -
[5520]
I can't believe the amount of whining this thread contains! Guys it's 15 bucks a month...less if you purchase multiple months.
I realize that some people may not be able to afford multiple video game accounts in this economy...but if you can't afford 15 bucks a month then you probably should spend it on food and STFU.
Ok I'm done. CCP good job. The only thing I might suggest is a small training queue because it is a pain in the butt to do the shorter skill trainings. Maybe just make it one skill deep or by time...ie Max 2 skills OR 48 hours etc..
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Lorac Caladon
Caldari The Cowboy Junkies
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Posted - 2008.11.13 19:53:00 -
[5521]
Originally by: Fiona Mars...d) IÆve honestly not see anyone post a link to anywhere stating explicitly the Ghost-Training was a legit feature. IÆm willing to concede the point only if you can show me something written by the hand of a CCP employee saying it was, (e.g. an old EULA).
[/quote Not a clause in the EULA but CCP written none-the-less
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Lorac Caladon
Caldari The Cowboy Junkies
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Posted - 2008.11.13 20:23:00 -
[5522]
Originally by: Swoopdeath I can't believe the amount of whining this thread contains! Guys it's 15 bucks a month...less if you purchase multiple months.
I realize that some people may not be able to afford multiple video game accounts in this economy...but if you can't afford 15 bucks a month then you probably should spend it on food and STFU.
Ok I'm done. CCP good job. The only thing I might suggest is a small training queue because it is a pain in the butt to do the shorter skill trainings. Maybe just make it one skill deep or by time...ie Max 2 skills OR 48 hours etc..
And yet ANOTHER poster that does not understand the scope of the issue. Seriously, if you can't be bothered to make an informed argument, why do you even bother to post? This is not meant as flame towards you, I just really don't understand why posters such as yourself feel like it's necessary to ignore ALL of the facts put before you.
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Squirrrel
Gallente Squirrrel Industries
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Posted - 2008.11.13 21:07:00 -
[5523]
Originally by: Swoopdeath I can't believe the amount of whining this thread contains! Guys it's 15 bucks a month...less if you purchase multiple months.
I realize that some people may not be able to afford multiple video game accounts in this economy...but if you can't afford 15 bucks a month then you probably should spend it on food and STFU.
I have food, I have money left over luxuries - $15, 30, 45, 60 a month.... nothing really. Drop in the ocean.
However, I'm not an idiot. And I don't expect CCP to treat me like one with the lies they spun out about the reasons for this change. I don't like giving money to people that lie to me. I'd rather not do that and take money from them in some manner.
That's all it amounts to.
Well done to all the CCP alts and fanbois trying to troll the crap out of this thread to get it closed. I know CCP employees have supposedly been gagged, we can expect that's only on official characters eh? I totally understand you have the need to vent on these ridiculous alts to protect your stance, but seriously.
Next step to this, is to flood Atari with all the bad press, and let them know that to get into bed with CCP might have a knock-on effect on their products too.
Good luck to all the actual fanbois here though. You'll get yours. Maybe in one, two, three years time when you're playing a pale version of what EvE used to be and you get ****ed yourself or fed up with being treated like a moron.
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Squirrrel
Gallente Squirrrel Industries
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Posted - 2008.11.13 21:08:00 -
[5524]
Oh and enjoy ambulation.
Wonder if they will put in a bit where you can join t0rfins and co. in station and you bend over to receive their customer service?
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Chani Fedaykin
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Posted - 2008.11.13 21:15:00 -
[5525]
Originally by: Fiona Mars I don't think there was ever going to be a good spin to put on this decision. It's totally pants, but it was the accounts department that made this decision. And by the looks of things, not many CCP accounts play EVE.
You can just imagine the guys in the devs office. An email comes down from above - we've decided to cut ghost-training, decide amoung yourselves who's going to tell the players. Maybe they have a clench of short straws for these occasions.
i dont care who is responsible for the decision, nor if anyone was 'forced' to present it to the playerbase.
...and if they let bad luck choose who has to announce it to public ... to the players ... which are the customers and finally pay the bills ... it would be just plain stupid again and not acceptable.
if a company has to make a decision (for whatever reasons) that obviously will not please a high percentage of their customers (especially loyal ones, that stuck to eve for a long time and have multiple accounts) - its absolutely neccessary to formulate and present the decision properly ... which (obviously again) was not the case.
Originally by: Lorac Caladon
Originally by: Swoopdeath I can't believe the amount of whining this thread contains! Guys it's 15 bucks a month...less if you purchase multiple months.
I realize that some people may not be able to afford multiple video game accounts in this economy...but if you can't afford 15 bucks a month then you probably should spend it on food and STFU.
Ok I'm done. CCP good job. The only thing I might suggest is a small training queue because it is a pain in the butt to do the shorter skill trainings. Maybe just make it one skill deep or by time...ie Max 2 skills OR 48 hours etc..
And yet ANOTHER poster that does not understand the scope of the issue. Seriously, if you can't be bothered to make an informed argument, why do you even bother to post? This is not meant as flame towards you, I just really don't understand why posters such as yourself feel like it's necessary to ignore ALL of the facts put before you.
nothing more to add |
Squirrrel
Gallente Squirrrel Industries
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Posted - 2008.11.13 21:22:00 -
[5526]
Edited by: Squirrrel on 13/11/2008 21:22:00
Originally by: Fiona Mars
d) IÆve honestly not see anyone post a link to anywhere stating explicitly the Ghost-Training was a legit feature. IÆm willing to concede the point only if you can show me something written by the hand of a CCP employee saying it was, (e.g. an old EULA).
I'll try to find the posts where they were linked from, and the old user guide that stated it for 5 years... might be able to find it written on Moses' tablets if you want to help me look for them...
Originally by: CCP Wrangler -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- (April 2007)
The skill trains until the level you're currently training is completed. You can't start training on the next level or new skill until you login of course --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally by: CCP Jiekon -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- (November 2006) Hi folks.
I just want to let you know that skill training WILL continue while the account is inactive. I had picked this up wrong when i was speaking to Wrangler before and i mistakenly told him that skills stop training when accounts go inactive, this is why it was included in the patch notes and it's entirely my fault.
This was a mistake on my part and the patch notes will be changed and that line removed as soon as possible.
Apologies for the misunderstandings
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Phidell
Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2008.11.13 21:40:00 -
[5527]
If we are literally paying for training time, give us the ****in skill queue already!
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Swoopdeath
Skorpid Industries
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Posted - 2008.11.14 00:40:00 -
[5528]
Originally by: Lorac Caladon
Originally by: Swoopdeath I can't believe the amount of whining this thread contains! Guys it's 15 bucks a month...less if you purchase multiple months.
I realize that some people may not be able to afford multiple video game accounts in this economy...but if you can't afford 15 bucks a month then you probably should spend it on food and STFU.
Ok I'm done. CCP good job. The only thing I might suggest is a small training queue because it is a pain in the butt to do the shorter skill trainings. Maybe just make it one skill deep or by time...ie Max 2 skills OR 48 hours etc..
And yet ANOTHER poster that does not understand the scope of the issue. Seriously, if you can't be bothered to make an informed argument, why do you even bother to post? This is not meant as flame towards you, I just really don't understand why posters such as yourself feel like it's necessary to ignore ALL of the facts put before you.
Look if you disagree with me that's fine. But don't say I'm totally uninformed...I've played Eve for years on multiple accounts, taken advantage of the ghost training sometimes, and run my own RL business which has to make decisions similar to these everyday. I know the weighing of options you have to make between customer retention and profit margins etc. I respect your opinion so chill out with the smack.
The point I wanted to make was that many people are very upset and whining to CCP while not stopping to look at the companies point of view. If you really don't like the game now quit and put an opinion in to CCP. If they get enough hassle they WILL change it back. Just depends if people put their money where their mouth is.
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Chani Fedaykin
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Posted - 2008.11.14 01:13:00 -
[5529]
Originally by: Swoopdeath Look if you disagree with me that's fine. But don't say I'm totally uninformed...I've played Eve for years on multiple accounts, taken advantage of the ghost training sometimes, and run my own RL business which has to make decisions similar to these everyday. I know the weighing of options you have to make between customer retention and profit margins etc. I respect your opinion so chill out with the smack.
The point I wanted to make was that many people are very upset and whining to CCP while not stopping to look at the companies point of view. If you really don't like the game now quit and put an opinion in to CCP. If they get enough hassle they WILL change it back. Just depends if people put their money where their mouth is.
well - the one point that you did not adress in any fashion is, that many ppl are not even upset because ghost training was removed, but how ccp treated their customers. i just suppose that if you run your own business, that you try to not give obviously invalid reasons to your customers - especially about a decision that is very likely to not please them a lot.
as stated several times already, its their decision ... and their money - however they should be 'man' enough to stand to their decision and the reasons behing it, and (at least try to) transport the message to their customers in an acceptable and appropriate manner. |
Swoopdeath
Skorpid Industries
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Posted - 2008.11.14 01:24:00 -
[5530]
Originally by: Chani Fedaykin
well - the one point that you did not adress in any fashion is, that many ppl are not even upset because ghost training was removed, but how ccp treated their customers. i just suppose that if you run your own business, that you try to not give obviously invalid reasons to your customers - especially about a decision that is very likely to not please them a lot.
as stated several times already, its their decision ... and their money - however they should be 'man' enough to stand to their decision and the reasons behing it, and (at least try to) transport the message to their customers in an acceptable and appropriate manner.
Agreed - would be nice to see a more "honest" CCP official release on the topic.
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Azraeljbs
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Posted - 2008.11.14 04:50:00 -
[5531]
Edited by: Azraeljbs on 14/11/2008 04:53:00
Still no official response from CCP on this thread other than the BS posted way back and a few *snips* of moderation.
So after pulling this wonderfully handled PR snafu They release a patch with shiny new toys and the new way to get 30day subs. :clap:clap: Only problem is the patch is full of fail. The intended fixes for lag ie....STACKLESS IO, and EVE64 didn't have the intended effect. Hell a lot of people could not even log into certain regions of the game. Those that could ran into dissapearing gates, ships, planets and moons, among many other problems you can see for yourself in the QUANTUM RISE ISSUES thread. Looks like another rushed launch to grab as many customers as possible. The speed nerfs went over like a ton of bricks, people are not pleased at all.
Sadly this is the path CCP has been running down full force for over a year now, they've got their head down looking at the ground rushing by them, faster and faster........but they don't see the brick wall they are about to run into. Fanfest brought many anouncements and promises of much new shiny stuff to come, an EVE FPS later down the road on consoles, MODULAR SHIPS, TRUE EXPLORATION containing new space that will open up T3. All of this will be done by MARCH?????? I almost feel bad for ATARI because if QR is full of fail immagine what all these promises will be like when it hits the store shelves in 4 MONTHS!!!! 4 months to balance modular ships? let alone T3 I smell another fail coming on.
CCP should already be seeing the first results of cancelled accounts soon. I have a few more months on mine. I feel bad for those expecting great things from CCP in the near future. From this thread alone you can see their true motivation is not to build a game for the players but rather to build revenue while ruining a once great product, much like the way SONY killed SWG and Planetside, EVE I'm afriad may suffer the same fate and fade quietly into obscurity. If you check the home page for CCP. You see what is says right there on the picture of their offices?? I LOLed. Can I blame them? No, they are a company their purpose and bottom line is to make money, someone mentioned earlier that CCP is responsible to it's stock holders, that is incorrect they are not a publicly traded company with stock. They are a privately held company. You could say that we are the investors, the player base that they seem to be slowly pushing away.
I believe this is one of many sweeping changes in a conspiracy to get rid of the vets so that when the new shiny box edition hits the shelves the newer players can go out and populate EVE all over again without getting turned into scrap metal and biomass too quickly. But I could just be paranoid.
I guess I'm done venting for now. I really wish we could get a response to this thread and have a meaningful discussion with a CCP employee about this issue. But instead they ignore us and insult us with sayings like "I immagine the thread content is still the same?". It's if if they have been told they cannot entertain a discussion on the topic. One of the largest threads in the history of the forums and no discussion from the devs. I feel slighted, ignored, **** on, and ****ed off. Keep spamming the in-game channels with this thread, there are many people who know nothing of this feature being removed. I still find at least 3 people everytime I log on.
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Zanpt
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.11.14 14:39:00 -
[5532]
Originally by: Phidell If we are literally paying for training time, give us the ****in skill queue already!
It's not an either-or. There's no technical challenge in bringing back unsubscribed training and adding a skill queue of some kind that would only work for subscribed accounts.
And I'll say once again, unsubbed training had zero loading effect on the CCP servers. They were not providing any kind of "service" that cost them anything. Unsubbed training was a friendly feature, was cited as a feature, and worked to the great financial benefit of CCP by luring ppl back into the game, and often sooner than they might otherwise have returned. To nerf it was unimaginably stupid. To lie and claim it was a bug, then spin it another 4, 5, 6 ways, ultimately letting slip that it was "a business decision" (trans: money), was insulting, offensive, cheap, tawdry, and unethical. And for it to have been a money-based decision clearly indicates that the decision was made by ppl who know nothing about the game or the player base.
Since unsubbed training could only follow being subscribed, acquiring the skillbook, and being online to kick off the next level, and since the completion was in no way any indication of actual work on the part of the servers but merely an out-of-game calendar date/time, like a post-it note stuck on the wall, I take the view that the training completion was already bought and paid for the moment the training step was clicked to start. The only thing one had to wait for before using the new skill level was a calendar date/time unrelated to anything to do with the servers. The training completion was not so much a completion as it was an enforced waiting period unrelated to game play. It was natural that it was also unrelated to account status.
In preventing unsubbed training CCP actually had to create new code that does impose a load on the servers. To stop training on an account going inactive they have to have a process go into the char data and change some fields. Before, unsubbed training required no action whatsoever on the part of the servers -- not during the "training" and not on "completion" of the training. "Completion" was detected only upon the client logging in, which of course required that the account be reactivated.
So I therefore also take the view that in nerfing unsubbed training CCP actually stole value already bought and paid for. |
Squirrrel
Gallente Squirrrel Industries
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Posted - 2008.11.14 15:42:00 -
[5533]
Originally by: Swoopdeath
Originally by: Lorac Caladon
Originally by: Swoopdeath I can't believe the amount of whining this thread contains! Guys it's 15 bucks a month...less if you purchase multiple months.
I realize that some people may not be able to afford multiple video game accounts in this economy...but if you can't afford 15 bucks a month then you probably should spend it on food and STFU.
Ok I'm done. CCP good job. The only thing I might suggest is a small training queue because it is a pain in the butt to do the shorter skill trainings. Maybe just make it one skill deep or by time...ie Max 2 skills OR 48 hours etc..
And yet ANOTHER poster that does not understand the scope of the issue. Seriously, if you can't be bothered to make an informed argument, why do you even bother to post? This is not meant as flame towards you, I just really don't understand why posters such as yourself feel like it's necessary to ignore ALL of the facts put before you.
Look if you disagree with me that's fine. But don't say I'm totally uninformed...I've played Eve for years on multiple accounts, taken advantage of the ghost training sometimes, and run my own RL business which has to make decisions similar to these everyday. ...
Can you get your people to read the nature of the thread, report back to you and then contact our people then please?
The reponse to yours was accurate and telling people to STFU and to chill out with smack? <tut tut>
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Tivookz
Caldari IMPERIAL SENATE Pure.
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Posted - 2008.11.14 17:28:00 -
[5534]
Still no word from CCP.
Well, here is one of my last words.
Subscription Status: Cancelled Will be suspended2008-11-16 Total Number Of Payments: None of your business. Cancel Subscription Cancellation Expires: 2008-11-16 13:48:18 Remaining Playtime: 1d:20h:21m
Goodbye.
Tiv __________________________________________________
Hating Cash Craving Productions since oct 15th 2008 |
Swoopdeath
Skorpid Industries
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Posted - 2008.11.14 18:15:00 -
[5535]
Originally by: Squirrrel}
Can you get your people to read the nature of the thread, report back to you and then contact our people then please?
The reponse to yours was accurate and telling people to STFU and to chill out with smack? <tut tut>[/quote
You talked a lot there but didn't say much...if you disagree I already posted that I could respect your opinion, but you have to actually add something. Saying "talk to my people" doesn't do anything. And the STFU was already stated toward the WHINING.
What SOME people don't understand is...whining is whining no matter if you're right or wrong. I'd love to see an organized coalition of players who plan to all cancel their accounts and show CCP the business, but I just doubt that this is any more than their whining at how "unfair" the world is. |
Squirrrel
Gallente Squirrrel Industries
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Posted - 2008.11.14 18:47:00 -
[5536]
Originally by: Swoopdeath
You talked a lot there but didn't say much...if you disagree I already posted that I could respect your opinion, but you have to actually add something. Saying "talk to my people" doesn't do anything. And the STFU was already stated toward the WHINING.
"Talk to your people" was sarcasm.
Originally by: Swoopdeath
What SOME people don't understand is...whining is whining no matter if you're right or wrong. I'd love to see an organized coalition of players who plan to all cancel their accounts and show CCP the business, but I just doubt that this is any more than their whining at how "unfair" the world is.
I'm glad I don't work for you then, sounds like you can't see a difference between some whining and general customer complaints and protests.
It's actually you that talks a lot and says not much at all, except that you haven't really established the nature of those complaints and concerns since you can't see beyond a "whine."
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Lorac Caladon
Caldari The Cowboy Junkies
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Posted - 2008.11.14 20:17:00 -
[5537]
Originally by: Swoopdeath Look if you disagree with me that's fine. But don't say I'm totally uninformed...I've played Eve for years on multiple accounts, taken advantage of the ghost training sometimes, and run my own RL business which has to make decisions similar to these everyday. I know the weighing of options you have to make between customer retention and profit margins etc. I respect your opinion so chill out with the smack.
The point I wanted to make was that many people are very upset and whining to CCP while not stopping to look at the companies point of view. If you really don't like the game now quit and put an opinion in to CCP. If they get enough hassle they WILL change it back. Just depends if people put their money where their mouth is.
I do disagree with you on just about everything that you have posted (so far) in this thread. And to be honest, you are proving that my initial statement was spot on. First, I did not say that you were misinformed (totally or otherwise). I stated (in question form) that I believe that you IGNORE the facts. Your "time in game" or real life profession does not interest me in the least.
Look, the "you aren't seeing it from CCP's POV" argument has been systemically torn down. The posters that are seriously opposed to this change (and other recent changes) have shown where this is not a smart business move. And when combined with the other changes (GTC, nano, missiles etc...) it could end up being "game-over".
Unlike some, I don't necessarily want the game to "jump the shark". I love it. But I also have a duty to myself to not support people that I feel are dishonest. And they make BAD decisions as well. To that end, I have cancelled this account and let my alt-main (whatever) expire. I am voicing my opinion until the last minute in hopes that someone from the "Old" CCP grabs the "New" CCP by the short and curlies and puts things "right".
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Lorac Caladon
Caldari The Cowboy Junkies
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Posted - 2008.11.14 20:20:00 -
[5538]
Originally by: Swoopdeath
What SOME people don't understand is...whining is whining no matter if you're right or wrong.
So, if you are so opposed to whining, why are you whining about "our" whining? Do you have a right that we don't have?
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Corbin Swift
Minmatar WD-40
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Posted - 2008.11.14 20:31:00 -
[5539]
Ok, I'm going to try a little thought experiment by exaggerating or amplifying the skill-completion nerf. A month ago CCP took one step in this direction. Now I'd like to ask a question to the players reading this who support the move.
Just suppose that in the future CCP were to start reversing skill training on inactive accounts, that is subtracting skill points from accounts that are inactive. So if you need to unsub for a couple of months for whatever reason, when you come back you are a couple of months behind where you left. This is a couple of steps further in the direction they have taken. By the flawed logic behind the current "bugfix" this should net them even more cash because people will be afraid to let the account lapse even if they are unable to log on for skill changes. The issue of tempting players to come back to Eve would become a non-issue because people would never leave, right?
When you fly in a fleet with friends, and you lose out on a few months training, it puts you in a similar situation to subtracting SP while inactive. At a guestimate, it is approximately 30%-40% as painful as my hypothetical extreme case, but it's painful nonetheless.
I'm not interested in arguing about this any longer, I've heard both sides of the current discussion and I know where I stand. But I'm curious if there are any readers who think that negative SP on inactive accounts would be a good change. If so, I'd really like to hear your reasoning. Please reply promptly as I have less than 2 days left on this account.
thanks, Corbin
ps, It's a hypothetical question/thought experiment so please spare me the posts saying that it would never happen. |
Tasty Bit
Gallente UNITED STAR SYNDICATE
|
Posted - 2008.11.14 22:25:00 -
[5540]
Edited by: Tasty Bit on 14/11/2008 22:29:03
Originally by: Corbin Swift Ok, I'm going to try a little thought experiment by exaggerating or amplifying the skill-completion nerf. A month ago CCP took one step in this direction. Now I'd like to ask a question to the players reading this who support the move.
Just suppose that in the future CCP were to start reversing skill training on inactive accounts, that is subtracting skill points from accounts that are inactive. So if you need to unsub for a couple of months for whatever reason, when you come back you are a couple of months behind where you left. This is a couple of steps further in the direction they have taken. By the flawed logic behind the current "bugfix" this should net them even more cash because people will be afraid to let the account lapse even if they are unable to log on for skill changes. The issue of tempting players to come back to Eve would become a non-issue because people would never leave, right?
When you fly in a fleet with friends, and you lose out on a few months training, it puts you in a similar situation to subtracting SP while inactive. At a guestimate, it is approximately 30%-40% as painful as my hypothetical extreme case, but it's painful nonetheless.
I'm not interested in arguing about this any longer, I've heard both sides of the current discussion and I know where I stand. But I'm curious if there are any readers who think that negative SP on inactive accounts would be a good change. If so, I'd really like to hear your reasoning. Please reply promptly as I have less than 2 days left on this account.
thanks, Corbin
ps, It's a hypothetical question/thought experiment so please spare me the posts saying that it would never happen.
Please, don't give the imbeciles-that-be any more brilliant ideas to adopt in the interests of making more cash. Or not, as the case would also be.
Also, if it turns out to be a bad idea (ie revenue actually went down), I wonder if they'd reverse it. That'd be brilliant, on several levels.
Then again, they could recoup some of the lost cash by firing the ********(s) who came up with the cunning plan in the first place. |
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Doctor Penguin
Amarr Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2008.11.14 22:41:00 -
[5541]
This thread is STILL GOING?
Sheesh. It's a game. It's not worth spending your time here mindlessly mashing out Why CCP is wrong: Part CXIV ________________________________________________
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Tasty Bit
Gallente UNITED STAR SYNDICATE
|
Posted - 2008.11.14 22:47:00 -
[5542]
Originally by: Doctor Penguin This thread is STILL GOING?
Sheesh. It's a game. It's not worth spending your time here mindlessly mashing out Why CCP is wrong: Part CXIV
I think it's more a case of killing time till Jumpgate's Beta starts. Eve's Beta has almost run its course now.
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Freezehunter
Gallente O.W.N. Corp OWN Alliance
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Posted - 2008.11.14 23:33:00 -
[5543]
Originally by: Tasty Bit
Originally by: Doctor Penguin This thread is STILL GOING?
Sheesh. It's a game. It's not worth spending your time here mindlessly mashing out Why CCP is wrong: Part CXIV
I think it's more a case of killing time till Jumpgate's Beta starts. Eve's Beta has almost run its course now.
Jumpgate is a ****ing joke compared to Eve, just like WoW... ------------------------------------------------
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IR Scoutar
Caldari State War Academy
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Posted - 2008.11.15 01:41:00 -
[5544]
Originally by: Freezehunter
Originally by: Tasty Bit
Originally by: Doctor Penguin This thread is STILL GOING?
Sheesh. It's a game. It's not worth spending your time here mindlessly mashing out Why CCP is wrong: Part CXIV
I think it's more a case of killing time till Jumpgate's Beta starts. Eve's Beta has almost run its course now.
Jumpgate is a ****ing joke compared to Eve, just like WoW...
eve was a ****ing joke in the beta tbh
certain things kept it floating thou
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HowardStern
|
Posted - 2008.11.15 02:04:00 -
[5545]
Originally by: IR Scoutar
Originally by: Freezehunter
Originally by: Tasty Bit
Originally by: Doctor Penguin This thread is STILL GOING?
Sheesh. It's a game. It's not worth spending your time here mindlessly mashing out Why CCP is wrong: Part CXIV
I think it's more a case of killing time till Jumpgate's Beta starts. Eve's Beta has almost run its course now.
Jumpgate is a ****ing joke compared to Eve, just like WoW...
eve was a ****ing joke in the beta tbh
certain things kept it floating thou
Is Eve out of beta yet? |
HowardStern
|
Posted - 2008.11.15 04:25:00 -
[5546]
Originally by: Freezehunter
Originally by: Tasty Bit
Originally by: Doctor Penguin This thread is STILL GOING?
Sheesh. It's a game. It's not worth spending your time here mindlessly mashing out Why CCP is wrong: Part CXIV
I think it's more a case of killing time till Jumpgate's Beta starts. Eve's Beta has almost run its course now.
Jumpgate is a ****ing joke compared to Eve, just like WoW...
A suitable comparison. 1 game's not even in Beta yet, and the other's been in beta for 5+ years. Give them a chance, ffs. |
Alassra Eventide
Veldspar Industries
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Posted - 2008.11.15 09:02:00 -
[5547]
About damned time you changed this. |
Duskadantor
|
Posted - 2008.11.15 10:09:00 -
[5548]
I hoped for 5000, nice number (or was it 5050, or 5005?) Either way impressive, its now at 5500+
But still...
I don't hold much hope for 6000 and it's getting that much harder to see any new angle from peoples opinions. Where's the hope on anything changing due to such a storming of such a nice varied collection of opinions?
This will still be a nice read for all those folk who don't visit eve-o. There's allot of fluff and banter, but also some really well put points.
If this is the largest thread of upset to ever grace the CCP forums, I may fail to see what good it serves. It will go beyond 6000 and eve will carry on as if it never existed. At least for a few more months anyhoo.
Anyone up for 1010?
"Yahooo-weeeeeeee" |
shortattenionsp
|
Posted - 2008.11.15 11:51:00 -
[5549]
Honestly I think this decision will backfire and cost you far more money than you realise. Whoever made this decision truly does not understand eve's player base.
I have been playing two years and currently have two active accounts. During that time I have stopped playing 2-3 times for lengthy periods of time, but have always come back again partly because I left a long skill training and its a nice bonus to come back with a better character than when you left. Undoubtedly I will stop playing again sometime in the future, and the chances of me coming back again will be drastically reduced because I will start exactly where I left off.
I work in game development myself and understand how people in middle and upper management with real decision making power can be utterly clueless idiots who have somehow managed to wrangle themselves into such positions. All I would day to the CCP employees reading this is make sure you get hold of the resulting subscription data and shove it in their face and show them this thread and see how good their decision really was.
It's the shameless PR crap that makes you look so bad though - telling us how this was an "unintended bug" you forgot to fix for five years when in reality it was a well known selling point for the game, mentioned even in your player guide. Why would you take the time to inform players of a useful "unintended bug" in your own game?
Do you really think your playerbase is that stupid and fanatical they would go along with your attempted doublethink?
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Bendax Wildwing
Deep Space Exploration Squad
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Posted - 2008.11.15 12:21:00 -
[5550]
As a long time eve player with only one acc and busy rl at times it was always nice to know there was a point in returning to eve due to 'ghost training' (Ridiculous term, I think).
Most relevant aspects have already been mentioned or discussed at length, I just wanted to add my opinion that it definitely will backfire on CCP, as it already seems to have. It was one feature making eve unique and interesting for hardcore and average players alike.
I once was of the impression it wasn't all for the money at CCP's. Unfortunatly, your recent decisions seem to have proven me wrong. I'm disappointed, CCP, and currently quite unsure whether I should continue to support this lack of interest in an obviously big part of your player base. |
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HowardStern
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Posted - 2008.11.15 13:19:00 -
[5551]
Originally by: shortattenionsp Do you really think your playerbase is that stupid and fanatical they would go along with your attempted doublethink?
Evidentally. |
Betty Bloodspatter
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Posted - 2008.11.15 13:27:00 -
[5552]
Edited by: Betty Bloodspatter on 15/11/2008 13:30:58
Originally by: DrJ Zoidberg This is bull. What load does an inactive subscription put on your servers or database? All it has to do is basically run a timer...
No, not even a timer. It's just a completion date/time stored in your char info. Nothing looks at it, no process runs to "progress" training. It is only examined when you log in, and you can only do that if your account is active. Then, when you log in, if the Eve date/time is later than the "completion" date/time recorded in your char info when you "started" the training step, you get that popup and voice telling you training has been completed.
Training as a process is a clever illusion created entirely in the client. When you open the Char Sheet and see an "active" training step blinking, and mouse over it and see it counting down, that's your Eve client running in your PC. The servers don't know anything about that. The database has a post-it note with the real world date/time after which you can use that skill level. Yeah, it's kinda cute the way they create the illusion but that's all it is. The servers do nothing.
If an asteroid turned the server cluster into a smoking pit, and after a few weeks or months CCP got a replacement built and restored from a backup of some kind, training would not take a hit from the servers having been turned into slag. There is no process. Completion is a note on a calendar and nothing looks at it except your Eve client.
Unsubscribed training is zero load on the servers.
Unsubscribed training has zero effect on the database since they keep expired chars anyway.
But to nerf it they had to add new code and new server load and new database activity. They have to detect that your account has expired (or expired three days ago, or whatever), then pull up your char info and change the flag that says a skill is "training" so it says no skill is training.
So, while CCP alleged in one of their spins that unsubscribed training had become some kind of "avalanche" of "snowflakes" in its effect on their database, there was actually zero effect until they nerfed it, and the nerf actually now adds some small server and database activity load. |
Betty Bloodspatter
|
Posted - 2008.11.15 14:02:00 -
[5553]
Edited by: Betty Bloodspatter on 15/11/2008 14:03:37
Originally by: Bendax Wildwing As a long time eve player with only one acc and busy rl at times it was always nice to know there was a point in returning to eve due to 'ghost training' (Ridiculous term, I think).
The term "ghost training" was invented when they decided to nerf unsubscribed training completions. In the previous five years it was a selling point but didn't have a name. "Ghost training" is a mildly pejorative term, part of the PR spin.
Originally by: Bendax Wildwing It was one feature making eve unique and interesting for hardcore and average players alike.
Yes, of course. You see that because your brain works. Whoever made this decision at CCP has a malfunctioning brain.
Originally by: Bendax Wildwing I once was of the impression it wasn't all for the money at CCP's.
Actually, if it were all for the money and they had even half a brain between them, they would not have nerfed unsubscribed training completions and would have advertized it widely as a friendly feature unique to Eve. It increased the rate of account reactivations.
I think what we have here is an instance of a bad decision by clueless suits or beancounters who understand nothing about Eve or the playerbase or the dynamics involved, or even of real life, since they clearly failed to grasp the multitude of causes of account expirations and later reactivations that have nothing to do with trying to exploit unsubbed training. What we have here is a case of gross unintended consequences brought about by uninformed and short-sighted decision making by one or more people whose proper place is on the unemployment line. |
Betty Bloodspatter
|
Posted - 2008.11.15 15:14:00 -
[5554]
Originally by: chotaire ...During the inactive period of those subscriptions, the database entry does not see much change except of a timer script adding skillpoints to a single skill (and single character). ... Skills (if db functions get optimized for inactive subscriptions) can't have as much of an impact to the db like any other offline action. We are obviously being fooled, database programmers speak out loud!
I've been programming and designing software for 45 years. I can assure you that skill training in Eve involves no "timer script" or "adding skillpoints." There is nothing to be "optimized for inactive subscriptions." While training in Eve is "progressing" there is zero server load and zero database activity due to training. There is only a tiny bit of activity when you start a training step and when your client detects that the real life date/time has passed the previously calculated target date/time for the completion of the step. If you are not logged in or your account is inactive, nothing needs to run and no script needs to add points to anything. It's all done by calculation when you start the step and when your Eve client (active and logged in, of course) or Evemon shows you the illusion of training moving forward.
The apparently dynamic training process you see in the Char Sheet is an illusion created entirely in your Eve client. It is not happening in the servers or the database. All that happens when you start a training step is that the completion date/time is calculated and stored in your char info in the database along with the ID of the training step that is "active." That's it. Nothing else happens except in your Eve client. When you watch the time being counted down in a mouseover of the active skill in the Char Sheet, your Eve client is calculating that locally. Nothing is happening in the servers.
Skill training in Eve was actually a brilliant design. It involved no server or database activity at all, which is perfect for a single-universe system where a few hundred thousand subscribers may have their chars training something. If the servers and database actually had to do something for training to progress, it would be a horrible load. Instead, CCP devised a way for training to be simply a target date/time, not a process. But they made it look like a process in the Eve client, since that comports with how we think of training. It's just an illusion.
Or at least it didn't involve any server or database activity until they nerfed it, which added some server load and database activity.
Further, training completions are out-of-game calendar date/time targets, not in-game and dependent on your gameplay. Training is an abstract, which is why it doesn't "stop" during downtime or server cluster problems or reboots... or even if the London server cluster melts into a pool of slag. The training completion, calculated when you click to start it, is a target on the real life calendar, not anything in the game or servers. It is simply stored in the database to be fetched when you log in, and the Eve client running on your PC does the rest. This is why training appeared to "continue progressing" until completion of the current step even if your account expired. It was the simplest way to implement it. Brilliantly simple.
That is why some of us take the view that the training step is already bought and paid for when you click to start it. You have to be subscribed and logged in to acquire the skillbook and click to start a training step, and the rest is just a waiting period. You also have to be subscribed and logged in to get any benefit at all from the completion of the training step. With training getting no work by the servers and causing zero load on servers and database, it was ludicrous for anyone to say they were giving us a service for free.
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Tasty Bit
Gallente UNITED STAR SYNDICATE
|
Posted - 2008.11.15 15:14:00 -
[5555]
Originally by: Betty Bloodspatter ..stuff..
Betty, where did you/we find out about the skill training mechanism? I never saw it anywhere, and wondered if they told us, or someone worked it out.
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Betty Bloodspatter
|
Posted - 2008.11.15 15:49:00 -
[5556]
Originally by: Vitrael You said you didn't want to add a skill queue because of Ghost Training.
With Ghost Training gone, any reason we can't have a skill queue?
Can you find a post in which they said that? If they did say that, they were lying or the person saying it was misinformed. There is nothing about unsubscribed training that prevents implementing a skill queue. The logical thing, of course, would be for the skill queue only to start a queued skill step if the account is active, while the current skill step should complete regardless of the account status.
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Corbin Swift
Minmatar WD-40
|
Posted - 2008.11.15 17:28:00 -
[5557]
Originally by: Tasty Bit
Originally by: Betty Bloodspatter ..stuff..
Betty, where did you/we find out about the skill training mechanism? I never saw it anywhere, and wondered if they told us, or someone worked it out.
To a software engineer the mechanism is fairly obvious. I concur with Bettys explanation of how it works. If it worked differently, there would be no need to stop skill training before using implants or jump cloning. In fact, forcing users to stop skill training before they can plug in an implant or use a jump clone is a work-around that CCP probably used to keep their skill training code as simple as possible.
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Betty Bloodspatter
|
Posted - 2008.11.15 17:37:00 -
[5558]
Originally by: Tasty Bit
Originally by: Betty Bloodspatter ..stuff..
Betty, where did you/we find out about the skill training mechanism? I never saw it anywhere, and wondered if they told us, or someone worked it out.
Something must be wrong! The posts are beginning to show signs of rationality! hehe
It was in the player guide and CCP weren't even smart enough to edit it before or simultaneously with announcing the nerf. They ninja edited it after the text in the player guide was pointed out by posters in this and the original thread. The announcement said it was a bug, ppl pointed out that it was documented in the player guide, then CCP silently edited the guide, weasel-style.
Look early in this thread and you'll see links to dev posts stating that training completes the current step even if the account expires. There are also links posted to screen shots of the before and after player guide section on training.
Old timers have also stated that CCP staffers used to tout it at gamer gatherings as a unique and friendly feature (which it was).
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Squirrrel
Gallente Squirrrel Industries
|
Posted - 2008.11.15 17:40:00 -
[5559]
Originally by: Corbin Swift
Originally by: Tasty Bit
Originally by: Betty Bloodspatter ..stuff..
Betty, where did you/we find out about the skill training mechanism? I never saw it anywhere, and wondered if they told us, or someone worked it out.
To a software engineer the mechanism is fairly obvious. I concur with Bettys explanation of how it works. If it worked differently, there would be no need to stop skill training before using implants or jump cloning. In fact, forcing users to stop skill training before they can plug in an implant or use a jump clone is a work-around that CCP probably used to keep their skill training code as simple as possible.
You're all working on the assumption that the game is coded logically and using best-design / best-practise. While it's probably true that EvE is indeed coded in that manner, I do sometimes wonder.
If the jumpy UI and buggy drones weren't a bit of a giveaway, I don't know what would be...
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Betty Bloodspatter
|
Posted - 2008.11.15 17:48:00 -
[5560]
Originally by: Corbin Swift ...In fact, forcing users to stop skill training before they can plug in an implant or use a jump clone is a work-around that CCP probably used to keep their skill training code as simple as possible.
Good point. The reason we have to stop training before clone jumping or messing with implants is a shortcut. They could have forced a recalculation of the completion date/time in those events (necessary since the clone you are jumping to may have different attribute levels and/or implants, and because changing implants affects attributes, in both cases possibly affecting the current training completion time). They took the shortcut of making us stop and restart the training because starting training already did the calculation of training step completion. They avoided additional programming by making us jump through extra hoops. But that is also consistent with the extremely elegant, efficient form of the training design and implementation.
The ugly part is that they broke that elegant model to nerf unsubbed training... they added code, server load and database activity, in contradiction of some of the spin they put on the matter. They insinuated that unsubbed training had some impact on the database, which is patently false, and to nerf it they added impact. It would be difficult to invent fiction this bizarre.
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Betty Bloodspatter
|
Posted - 2008.11.15 18:03:00 -
[5561]
Originally by: Squirrrel You're all working on the assumption that the game is coded logically and using best-design / best-practise. While it's probably true that EvE is indeed coded in that manner, I do sometimes wonder.
No, we're not making that assumption. The way training works in Eve reveals the nature of the internal design and implemenation.
Originally by: Squirrrel If the jumpy UI and buggy drones weren't a bit of a giveaway, I don't know what would be...
I am not a Windows or graphics programmer but I know a very advanced one and he explains that many of the UI quirks are a direct result of the Windows interface, DirectX and, according to him, CCP's less than complete mastery of the window objects they have to use in MS Windows. So I wouldn't draw conclusions about any of the server or database work from the UI quirks.
The fundamental design of Eve is remarkably good. Every object we see and deal with, from stars and planets and moons to gates, starbases, ships, fittings, etc. is a record in a database related to other records such as the ones that provide the templates for the customized objects. Early games were probably masses of coding, and adding or changing anything in the game required programming. In Eve many things can be added or modified without programming, merely by adding or modifying records in the database. It's really quite a good approach. And it's very complex, much moreso than most business databases. Like the bumblebee and the 747, it seems too massive to fly, but it does. Credit where credit is due.
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Gus Gallente
Dark Star Cartel Molotov Coalition
|
Posted - 2008.11.15 18:23:00 -
[5562]
Dear CCP-
Here's an example of honesty:
Subscription Status: Cancelled Will be suspended11/20/2008 Total Number Of Payments: XX Cancel Subscription Cancellation Expires: 11/20/2008 4:56:04 PM Remaining Playtime: 4d:23h:7m
Before t20, we were assured that any employee caught cheating would be ****canned.
After t20 was exposed, CCP attempted to cover it up and even let him keep his job.
When the Boost Patch was announced in a dev blog, we were told it would be a nerf to every ship in the game, hitting both shields (Exp Resists) and armor (EM Resists).
However, when the Boost Patch went live, CCP announced that the patch contained "no nerfs!"
Before the need for this thread arose, CCP claimed to be insulated from the suffering economy of Iceland.
Their very next move was to come up with a fake bug they could squash in the interests of filling their pockets.
Hitherto un-named, "Ghost Training" was listed as a feature in the User's Manual for five years[/i. Any transparent game developer would have stated from the outset that "this is not working as intended, it is a known issue, and it is considered to be an exploit..." CCP did none of those things, but instead touted it and even encouraged its use.
Then, when the rainy day economy eventually hit, they accused their playerbase of [i]abusing it as if it were an exploit!
I don't pay liars, except in the case of taxes, in which case I've got no choice. Good luck, CCP. And remember this:
Not every player is as ignorant as you hope them to be. |
Squirrrel
Gallente Squirrrel Industries
|
Posted - 2008.11.15 18:42:00 -
[5563]
Edited by: Squirrrel on 15/11/2008 18:44:00
Originally by: Betty Bloodspatter
Originally by: Squirrrel You're all working on the assumption that the game is coded logically and using best-design / best-practise. While it's probably true that EvE is indeed coded in that manner, I do sometimes wonder.
No, we're not making that assumption. The way training works in Eve reveals the nature of the internal design and implemenation.
I will make my own assumption that you haven't seen the code for yourself, nor actually spoken to anyone who has about the actual coding.
As you will know, there are many, many ways to achieve a desired result through programming, some are clumsy, cumbersome and convoluted and yet reach their desire effect; whilst making it appear it's using a logical process to get to it's result.
I won't disagree with you on the perception of how training works, and how simple a routine it should be, however I would never take that as fact based on perception and best case scenarios.
I'm not after an argument about this, I also think that chances are their are many more things that probably cause DB load than unsubbed training. "Ghost" market orders is probably the worst. |
Gus Gallente
Dark Star Cartel Molotov Coalition
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Posted - 2008.11.15 18:58:00 -
[5564]
Originally by: Squirrrel I also think that chances are their are many more things that probably cause DB load than unsubbed training. "Ghost" market orders is probably the worst.
This.
If anything "Ghostly" should have been nerfed, it's the ability to prosper your character's wallet while offline. |
bjtardiff
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Posted - 2008.11.15 22:30:00 -
[5565]
It makes sense I don't know why anyone is ranting if you worked or owned eve would you want about 5000 of the players registered to ghost train? Anyway we all knew or should have known it was going to come eventually at least there are not any penalties against people who did it and now you guys who did ghost train had an advantage and still do just because you can't do it anymore dosen't mean it dind't help somewhat. The only thing I think they should have done was give everyone a warning that you were gonna do it.
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Squirrrel
Gallente Squirrrel Industries
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Posted - 2008.11.15 23:21:00 -
[5566]
Originally by: bjtardiff ..I don't know why anyone is ranting ...
Yep, you're right.
You don't. |
Lorac Caladon
Caldari The Cowboy Junkies
|
Posted - 2008.11.16 03:13:00 -
[5567]
Originally by: Squirrrel
Originally by: bjtardiff ..I don't know why anyone is ranting ...
Yep, you're right.
You don't.
^This. And no offense, but the fact that you have "tard" in your characterÆs name is...telling. |
bjtardiff
|
Posted - 2008.11.16 03:53:00 -
[5568]
Originally by: Lorac Caladon
Originally by: Squirrrel
Originally by: bjtardiff ..I don't know why anyone is ranting ...
Yep, you're right.
You don't.
^This. And no offense, but the fact that you have "tard" in your characterÆs name is...telling.
ok seriously why are people ranting oh so what they can't train a skill when they dont pay for a game. Oh wait guess what this is the only game that was ever like that things change they changed it. Its there decision its there game they made it how are you gonna tell the creators of the game how it is suppose to be or how it isn't??? so stop being a smart*** and get over it.
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Gus Gallente
Dark Star Cartel Molotov Coalition
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Posted - 2008.11.16 06:48:00 -
[5569]
Edited by: Gus Gallente on 16/11/2008 06:52:01 Edited by: Gus Gallente on 16/11/2008 06:50:49
Originally by: bjtardiff Edited by: bjtardiff on 16/11/2008 04:01:51 Edited by: bjtardiff on 16/11/2008 03:58:43
Originally by: Lorac Caladon
Originally by: Squirrrel
Originally by: bjtardiff ..I don't know why anyone is ranting ...
Yep, you're right.
You don't.
^This. And no offense, but the fact that you have "tard" in your characterÆs name is...telling.
ok seriously why are people ranting oh so what they can't train a skill when they dont pay for a game. Oh wait guess what this is the only game that was ever like that things change they changed it. Its there decision its there game they made it how are you gonna tell the creators of the game how it is suppose to be or how it isn't??? so stop being a smart*** and get over it.
Unless you think i'm wrong in which case no matter what i say you will go and continue to A. call me a tard who has no idea what happend. or B. Try to explain how the creators HAVE to change it because you play the game, you don't like the change then i don't know why you bothered posting at all just quit and save yourself a good week of constant ranting that will get you no where.
Also made my name randomly through google feeling lucky search so i don't care about it.
2nd edit: Also what makes any of you people think you can just demand something and that they will be forced to comply just to please YOU! Don't mean to be offensive but you need to wake up and realize that everything cannot go your way. So it was in the original manual they changed it people got mad when they changed a lot of stuff did they change it back?
It's not about the changes they made. It's about the integrity with which they made them.
Instead of saying, "Hey guys, we need more money," they said, "Hey guys, you're taking advantage of an exploit. It's a bug we never meant to be there."
CCP has a history of pulling this kind of thing. It's insulting, it's dishonest, and to be perfectly frank I find it vaguely unethical. Somewhat like the U.S. tobacco industry.
Think about it, in both situations corporations were marketing a highly addictive product about which they routinely lied. Yes, I can say routinely, citing the incidents in my previous posts.
What if your local grocer ran a sale on your favorite beer for five years, buy one get one free? Then, after five years, they not only cancel the sale, but both increase their prices (GTC's, lol) and publish an inflammatory article in the local newspaper claiming that all their customers - everyone in the community who bought the beer - had been taking advantage of an unintended fluke in their pricing (this "Blog edition")? Would you continue shopping at that store?
This is the reason people are upset. Get it?
--- |
Corbin Swift
Minmatar WD-40
|
Posted - 2008.11.16 07:10:00 -
[5570]
Originally by: bjtardiff Also made my name randomly through google feeling lucky search so i don't care about it.
So you let google pick your character name. And you accepted the result without any kind of thought or filtering on your part. And you accept that CCP can do anything they want to Eve, even though their player guide says in the first paragraph "the players have an incredible impact on how the game develops".
Excellent, you're just the type of person I'm looking for. I posted yesterday about a hypothetical situation in which CCP changed the terms of our subscriptions yet again. In this new bugfix, they began to subtract SP from characters whose accounts are allowed to go inactive.
I would really like to hear the opinions of players such as yourself. Imagine that you have been playing Eve for 4 or 5 years, and suddenly you find that you can only find the time to play for maybe 6 months each year. Would you be willing to continue to pay a subscription for those 6 months, just to keep the status of your character static.
I've been waiting for a full day for a response to my original post but nobody has been willing to enlighten me. My account will be expiring in about 24 hours, so you might be my last chance to have a conversation with a CCP supporter on this issue. Please let me know if you would (a) complain about this change and hope that CCP change their minds. (b) accept that CCP can do whatever they want and continue paying even though you can't play. (c) stop paying and let your characters SP begin to decay. (d) some other course of action.
I'd prefer if you could discuss what your reaction would be instead of just picking one of the options above. Thanks in advance for your input, as I may be unable to thank you afterwards.
regards, Corbin
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Zanpt
Caldari
|
Posted - 2008.11.16 08:33:00 -
[5571]
Originally by: Squirrrel
Originally by: Betty Bloodspatter No, we're not making that assumption. The way training works in Eve reveals the nature of the internal design and implemenation.
I will make my own assumption that you haven't seen the code for yourself, nor actually spoken to anyone who has; about the actual coding.
As you will know, there are many, many ways to achieve a desired result through programming, some are clumsy, cumbersome and convoluted and yet reach the desired effect; whilst making it appear it's using a logical process to get to it's result.
I won't disagree with you on the perception of how training works, and how simple a routine it should be, however I would never take that as fact based on perception and best case scenarios.
[sigh] In fact, observable behavior and internal design and implementation have strong connections. This is my profession. This is what I do for a living. I've been doing it for 45 years. Observing the behavior of systems and identifying aspects of design and implementation from the behavior are integral parts of what I do. Sometimes it helps to know the code; at other times it makes little difference and I can zero in on specific functional areas of the code and describe the design or implementation issues with great accuracy. I did this just recently in the case of a serious anomaly in a software package to which we acquired the rights, the code of which I have never had reason to examine.
The internals and externals are not unrelated; the externals are produced directly by the internals. I don't need to convince you of this; I do it every day and if I were wrong or if I weren't good at it I wouldn't be where I am today.
Originally by: Squirrrel I'm not after an argument about this, I also think that chances are there are many more things that probably cause DB load than unsubbed training. "Ghost" market orders is probably the worst.
You have a point but there is more than meets the eye there, too. Market orders work to the benefit of both buyer and seller and in a more general sense to the utility of the Market. Cancel the sell orders of chars in an account going inactive and those who would have bought the items had they not disappeared are hurt. The diversity and competitiveness of the Market is diminished. It's quite possible that a fully informed design decision could have been made that the benefits of unsubbed market order selling outweigh the costs. Or that functionality could have been allowed to remain as a way of avoiding writing yet more code. Or both. The mere fact that unsubbed sell orders remain and that purchases against them result in ISK going into the personal or corporate wallet of the unsubbed char may be relatively unimportant in the context of the functioning of the game. Rather than a burden, unsubbed sell orders could be viewed as a net gain since the Market and buyers benefit but the servers don't have to bear the burden of any game play by the unsubbed chars.
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Zanpt
Caldari
|
Posted - 2008.11.16 08:39:00 -
[5572]
Originally by: bjtardiff Edited by: bjtardiff on 15/11/2008 22:38:24 It makes sense I don't know why anyone is ranting if you worked or owned eve would you want about 5000 of the players registered to ghost train? Anyway we all knew or should have known it was going to come eventually at least there are not any penalties against people who did it and now you guys who did ghost train had an advantage and still do just because you can't do it anymore dosen't mean it dind't help somewhat. The only thing I think they should have done was give everyone a warning that you were gonna do it.
Also they could always make it so for 5$ per month or something u can still train a skill just can't do anything else.
Instead of posting blindly after 5,535 previous posts you could have tried reading some of the thread to find out what this is about. Oh, wait... that would have taken some effort.
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Squirrrel
Gallente Squirrrel Industries
|
Posted - 2008.11.16 09:32:00 -
[5573]
Originally by: Zanpt
[sigh] In fact, observable behavior and internal design and implementation have strong connections. This is my profession. This is what I do for a living. I've been doing it for 45 years. Observing the behavior of systems and identifying aspects of design and implementation from the behavior are integral parts of what I do. Sometimes it helps to know the code; at other times it makes little difference and I can zero in on specific functional areas of the code and describe the design or implementation issues with great accuracy. I did this just recently in the case of a serious anomaly in a software package to which we acquired the rights, the code of which I have never had reason to examine.
The internals and externals are not unrelated; the externals are produced directly by the internals. I don't need to convince you of this; I do it every day and if I were wrong or if I weren't good at it I wouldn't be where I am today.
Again, you are probably correct in your perception of how it works. That said, you don't know anything about the system performance/runtime on the servers when the processes run for skill training - makes it much harder to evaluate exactly how it is working surely? |
Squirrrel
Gallente Squirrrel Industries
|
Posted - 2008.11.16 09:37:00 -
[5574]
Originally by: bjtardiff
ok seriously why are people ranting oh so what they can't train a skill when they dont pay for a game.
Read some more of the thread if you really want to know. Lots of people point it out, and every other day some smartass comes and posts like you have and has totally missed the point.
Originally by: bjtardiff
2nd edit: Also what makes any of you people think you can just demand something and that they will be forced to comply just to please YOU! Don't mean to be offensive but you need to wake up and realize that everything cannot go your way. So it was in the original manual they changed it people got mad when they changed a lot of stuff did they change it back?
Sometimes it just boils down to the power of the paying customer. Their bottom line will determine if they change it or not, we will have to wait and see the kind of impact the change has had on their subscribers and subsequently; their income.
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Bluetippedflyer
|
Posted - 2008.11.16 09:53:00 -
[5575]
Edited by: Bluetippedflyer on 16/11/2008 09:54:57
Quote: What if your local grocer ran a sale on your favorite beer for five years, buy one get one free? Then, after five years, they not only cancel the sale, but both increase their prices (GTC's, lol) and publish an inflammatory article in the local newspaper claiming that all their customers - everyone in the community who bought the beer - had been taking advantage of an unintended fluke in their pricing (this "Blog edition")? Would you continue shopping at that store?
i feel ya
edit: oh btw Remaining Playtime: 10d:11h:5m |
Sinister Sibling
|
Posted - 2008.11.16 10:44:00 -
[5576]
Edited by: Sinister Sibling on 16/11/2008 10:44:28
Originally by: Corbin Swift
I would really like to hear the opinions of players such as yourself. Imagine that you have been playing Eve for 4 or 5 years, and suddenly you find that you can only find the time to play for maybe 6 months each year. Would you be willing to continue to pay a subscription for those 6 months, just to keep the status of your character static.
Unless you are stuck for 6 months without Internet access, your character can progress in skills just fine with just a few minutes of in-game time every few weeks. And before these changes came in you would have stopped training after the first skill completed anyway if you were unable to access your character at all for 6 months.
Of course if you lack the money to pay for your account(s) 100% of the time AND lack the in-game time to make the isk needed to pay for GTC's you are badly affected by this change. You will need to look at your options and how many accounts you really need.
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Zanpt
Caldari
|
Posted - 2008.11.16 12:50:00 -
[5577]
Edited by: Zanpt on 16/11/2008 12:52:02
Originally by: Squirrrel Again, you are probably correct in your perception of how it works. That said, you don't know anything about the system performance/runtime on the servers when the processes run for skill training - makes it much harder to evaluate exactly how it is working surely?
It's refreshing to have a civil discussion even if we don't seem to be on the same wavelength. Thank you for that.
The way in which Eve training behaves indicates that it was designed to have no processes that "run for skill training." None. When you right-click on a skilbook or a skill in your Char Sheet and select "Train," your Eve client sends a request to the server to register training being active for that skill level. The server validates that the action requested by the client is consistent with your char's skillbook possessions or partially trained skills and prerequisites, then uses your attributes and the skill properties to calculate the completion date/time, which is stored in your char info record in the database along with the ID of the skill and step being trained. It may also calculate and store the rate at which this skill step will advance skill points.
From that moment until an event affecting your attributes occurs, or until your client detects that the calculated date/time has passed, no processes "run" to advance training. If and while you are logged in various things can happen to affect your char attributes, requiring a recalculation of the training completion date/time. Let's say for simplification that if you don't log in, which would certainly be the case if your account had expired meanwhile, that nothing can alter your attributes. In this case nothing need even look at your char info record or the status of the training step. No process needs to run to add skill points; no process needs to run to count down the remaining training time. The completion date/time is already known, having been calculated and stored up front, and unless and until you log in, nothing looks at it.
Let's say you log in before the completion date/time and open your char sheet to examine the "progress." Your Eve client uses the data previously stored in the database to calculate how much time remains, to build the graphic progress bar, and to display a running countdown timer. This is all cosmetic, done entirely in the Eve client without any other participation on the part of the servers or database. The servers don't do any timing, any counting down, or any scanning for completed training. It's unnecessary since completed training is only meaningful in the context of a logged-in user, and at the moment of logging in, the client or the server detects the completion from that same static data and lets you know.
When you log in after the date/time of a completion, your Eve client retrieves your char info and either the client informs the server that it thinks it has a training completion or the server detects that as it delivers the char info to the client. If you have not logged in since you started the training step, this is the first time that anything has looked at your training.
So, as long as we're still talking about the impact of training while the user is not logged in or his account has expired, I already know "the system performance/runtime on the servers when the processes run for skill training." There are no processes, therefore no impact on servers or database. This is evident from the design, which is evident from the behavior.
Now of course there is another silly possibility: that after designing training to have zero impact on servers or database, CCP may have loaded it up with processes unnecessary to carrying out the evident design. While possible, I discount this because it would be like a vehicle with obvious engine, power train, wheels and brakes that turns out not to use them and instead uses air cylinders to hop forward a foot at a time. |
Rethie
Caldari
|
Posted - 2008.11.16 13:43:00 -
[5578]
Way back somewhere in this thread I touted the concept of other ghost (unsubbed) benefits in the game. selling, rp, corp dividends etc. etc.
They touted that by ghost (unsubbed) training some players were gaining an unfair advantage, it was only an unfair advantage to other players if others did not have access to the knowledge that unsubbed training existed. This information was in a player guide, externally produced or not, this guide was endorsed and proof read before allowing to be published under this company banner.
This game is supposed to be an extension on our current time here on Earth into the future where we the players are virtual persons in an Unfolding & Evolving and Structured Society in a new universe. Now Role playing comes into this as we make our characters a fictitious extension of ourselves developing and prospering ourselves in the virtual universe, making dreams and forming alliances/ enemies and so on.
With unsubbed training it now ensues that we are dead, suspended animation, life ceases for our character in terms of intelligence, our market orders, corp duties etc etc. may continue, but we the players, supposedly sentient beings in a civilised (somewhat) future society, suddenly become dumbass ****s for as long as our RL persons have no money to subscribe.
SO much for a society that moves on into the future while we aren't logged in, well in part it does, but dare drop your subscription and while you are on a virtual holiday buddy you ain't going to learn a thing. There kills off the storyline/ advertising about the game that things go on even when we are logged off, hell now if every player unsubbed, guess what the game won't move on according to the advertising touted by this company, since we the players are what make this society move on.
our vote and voice should be heard in this matter, to go along with the storyline, our characters should not die, in part, or drop off the radar in intelligence whilst our RL puppetmasters forgot to pay the bill or had other commitments to RL.
Keep with the storyline CCP, our characters are in a universe based on real time, so give back the real time training, or counteract with an ability to multiply training time by using a booster or something, so when unsubbed and returning to the game we can grind and catch up to our rate of learning lost.
My vote is there, and I am not a unsubbed user. time running out on my sub!! |
raWill
|
Posted - 2008.11.16 14:49:00 -
[5579]
Edited by: raWill on 16/11/2008 14:49:24 I don't know what you are all complaing about. This game BLOWS.
And fusck me I hate this forum, was it too coded in Python? Slowest POS ever.
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Squirrrel
Gallente Squirrrel Industries
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Posted - 2008.11.16 17:22:00 -
[5580]
Originally by: Zanpt
It's refreshing to have a civil discussion even if we don't seem to be on the same wavelength. Thank you for that.
Hey I'm just playing Devils' advocate on this.
Originally by: Zanpt
The way in which Eve training behaves indicates that it was designed to have no processes that "run for skill training...
I bow to the knowledge you have on this subject - what you have said certainly seems logical to me with te limited knowledge I have of programming routines.
I do still wonder though; that with many people involved in the coding if the basis of it is sound, yet something may have been bolted on by another programmer/team that appends this process in some other manner. I guess the only 'real' example I may be able to give you as to where I'm coming from (and I'll be honest and say I'm not entirely sure of how and when this update on InEve) is the API key of a characters skills.
For exmaple, if the API grabs the data and sends it to a third-party to update such a site, how ofte does it do it, and is it checking as if it were the client periodically?
I guess what I'd really like is for an EvE response from the progamming team either in favour of what you say or to the contrary. We both know that probably won't happen though; since if they agree with you, they will be admitting to the grand lie, and if they disagree, they will probably leave themselves open to ridicule for bad programming.
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Corbin Swift
Minmatar WD-40
|
Posted - 2008.11.16 18:23:00 -
[5581]
Originally by: Squirrrel I guess the only 'real' example I may be able to give you as to where I'm coming from (and I'll be honest and say I'm not entirely sure of how and when this update on InEve) is the API key of a characters skills.
For exmaple, if the API grabs the data and sends it to a third-party to update such a site, how ofte does it do it, and is it checking as if it were the client periodically?
The API is disabled for unsubbed accounts too. For subscribed accounts, the data is retrieved when the site using the API requests it. That interval varies, but the API site that I am aware of updates once per hour.
You should listen to the people that have reverse engineered the skill training procedure. Many people came to the same conclusions independently, which lends a lot of weight to their opinions. I also figured out the formula to calculate how long a given skill would take to complete, based on my current attributes and the rank/level of the skills. After I had done this, I found that the system had been cracked by several people prior to me. We were all correct.
regards, Corbin
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Squirrrel
Gallente Squirrrel Industries
|
Posted - 2008.11.16 19:09:00 -
[5582]
Edited by: Squirrrel on 16/11/2008 19:09:36
Originally by: Corbin Swift
Originally by: Squirrrel I guess the only 'real' example I may be able to give you as to where I'm coming from (and I'll be honest and say I'm not entirely sure of how and when this update on InEve) is the API key of a characters skills.
For exmaple, if the API grabs the data and sends it to a third-party to update such a site, how ofte does it do it, and is it checking as if it were the client periodically?
The API is disabled for unsubbed accounts too. For subscribed accounts, the data is retrieved when the site using the API requests it. That interval varies, but the API site that I am aware of updates once per hour.
You should listen to the people that have reverse engineered the skill training procedure. Many people came to the same conclusions independently, which lends a lot of weight to their opinions. I also figured out the formula to calculate how long a given skill would take to complete, based on my current attributes and the rank/level of the skills. After I had done this, I found that the system had been cracked by several people prior to me. We were all correct.
regards, Corbin
Cheers Corbin. As I mentioned, I bow to the knowledge of those with experience and greater knowledge than I on these things.
Do you know if the API update has always been disabled for unsubbed accounts, or did that change come about at the same time? |
Corbin Swift
Minmatar WD-40
|
Posted - 2008.11.16 19:40:00 -
[5583]
Originally by: Squirrrel Do you know if the API update has always been disabled for unsubbed accounts, or did that change come about at the same time?
I don't know if it has always been disabled for unsubbed accounts. AFAIK the API has been available for approx 1 year. The first time I made use of it was about 4-5 months ago, at which time I was subscribed. The API was disabled for unsubbed accounts at least 2 months ago, so that was prior to the unsubbed-skill-completion-nerf-fiasco. Someone else might be able to add some data points to this for you.
Corbin |
Lucas Avignon
Avignon Associates Inc.
|
Posted - 2008.11.16 20:29:00 -
[5584]
The API has always been disabled for unsubbed accounts.
It's a bare faced lie if CCP are leading people to believe that the ridiculously called "Ghost training" actually puts more of a load on the server. It does not put any load whatsoever on the server as the end time of the skill is calculated when the skill is started, in fact disabling it actually puts a strain on the server as the server has to check at downtime which accounts have run out and disable training on those accounts.
This was and is pure and simple a way for CCP to squeeze more money out of people.
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Corbin Swift
Minmatar WD-40
|
Posted - 2008.11.16 20:30:00 -
[5585]
Originally by: Sinister Sibling Unless you are stuck for 6 months without Internet access, your character can progress in skills just fine with just a few minutes of in-game time every few weeks. And before these changes came in you would have stopped training after the first skill completed anyway if you were unable to access your character at all for 6 months.
Thanks for replying Sinister. You didn't answer the question I posed, but I suppose that's better than just ignoring me. Instead you told me that my perceived problem wasn't a problem at all. Can I ask if you have ever played Eve for an extended period and just spent a few minutes each week changing skills? If you have, then I respectfully suggest that you find a game that you enjoy more. You seem to think it's a viable option, but I don't. At least it's not for me.
In fact if I have an active subscription, I have to avoid turning on my computer if I want to avoid logging into Eve. Seriously. I have an addictive personality, and I was hopelessly addicted to Eve at one point. It cost me an awful lot more than $15/month in real terms. At least 100x more than that. That's how much I love this game, but I recognized the damage it was doing and I found a way to deal with it. I dealt with the problem by unsubscribing for a month when work or exams were more important. This strategy allowed me to play the game I love and meet my RL obligations. But apparently CCP think that players like me aren't dedicated enough to the game. They want to punish me now, well, I'm gonna punish them right back.
Someone else made a comparison between CCP and the tobacco companies earlier. I'm also a smoker and I agree with that comparison. Quitting cigarettes is easy, I've done it at least 30 times. Quitting for good would be a lot easier if the nicotine was less addictive each time I started smoking again. That's what CCP are gradually doing to Eve. Maybe I'll be able to quit for good if they keep removing the things that make it unique.
Corbin |
Jonas Vinthyn
Cassandra's Light Caeruleum Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.11.16 23:10:00 -
[5586]
5557th in a 186 page epic thread.
Oh, and I agree this idea sucks. -1 account here, expired a few days ago with a 20+ day skill to train and it looks like I'll just abandon it now. Unfortunate really.
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Nadarius Chrome
Celestial Industrial Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.11.17 01:42:00 -
[5587]
Originally by: Lucas Avignon The API has always been disabled for unsubbed accounts.
False. I regularly let my main (and only) account close when I did not have the inclination or time to actively play. The API let me keep an eye on my wallet balance to see what had sold.
It was disabled probably 2 or 3 months ago for closed accounts. It'd be pure speculation, but it's possible CCP were testing the waters with that change to see what they could do before people screamed. |
Richard Aiel
Caldari Caldari Provisions
|
Posted - 2008.11.17 01:49:00 -
[5588]
omg they havent locked this thread yet? |
Lucas Avignon
Avignon Associates Inc.
|
Posted - 2008.11.17 08:08:00 -
[5589]
Originally by: Nadarius Chrome
Originally by: Lucas Avignon The API has always been disabled for unsubbed accounts.
False. I regularly let my main (and only) account close when I did not have the inclination or time to actively play. The API let me keep an eye on my wallet balance to see what had sold.
It was disabled probably 2 or 3 months ago for closed accounts. It'd be pure speculation, but it's possible CCP were testing the waters with that change to see what they could do before people screamed.
Ok, I just remember that Evemon would not autoupdate if your account wasn't subbed. Dunno how long it's been like that though.
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Corbin Swift
Minmatar WD-40
|
Posted - 2008.11.17 11:12:00 -
[5590]
Well my time is up. I'll be back for 1 or 2 months next year. For anyone that's keeping count, that's gonna cost them $180-$200 next year. (2 accounts). Hey, in 2 years I'll have saved enough for a PS3!
\o/
Corbin
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Carl Druffee
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.11.17 18:15:00 -
[5591]
Originally by: Corbin Swift ...Seriously. I have an addictive personality, and I was hopelessly addicted to Eve at one point. It cost me an awful lot more than $15/month in real terms. Corbin
I think most of is players do
Someone else said that players with inactive accounts don't play. We do... I have 2 unsubbed accounts and one active, used to be 3 active, sometimes 2, rarely one. I can afford having 3 accounts up and running all the time, but I choose not to, because of not being able to turn in my computer without starting to play Eve.
Creating new code and more server load because CCCP can't handle that most of the players that used the 'Power of 2' offer they themselves offered, didn't pay full-time for all the account. CCP created the feature of training while the account was inactive, and people used it to skill their alterante accounts, which were encouraged by CCP.
Eve Online is too big for one character to be able to do everything, and so we have to have alts to be able to alternate our playstyle. Some PvP, some manufacturing, research, marketing, scamming, etc. Scamming will probably be the next to be ruled out
Only real way to skill up good alts is to have them on seperate accounts (again, encouraged by CCP). CCCP also effectively killed the bait of returning customers. One-time customers never made companies rich.
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NupetietVer
Neuro Cartographic Services
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Posted - 2008.11.17 20:37:00 -
[5592]
Originally by: Carl Druffee Only real way to skill up good alts is to have them on seperate accounts (again, encouraged by CCP). CCCP also effectively killed the bait of returning customers. One-time customers never made companies rich.[/quote
All about retaining customers unless your Wachovia and tout your #1 in Customer Satisfaction for New Customers. Look what happend to them.
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Intaki Tusmik
|
Posted - 2008.11.17 22:22:00 -
[5593]
Edited by: Intaki Tusmik on 17/11/2008 22:27:57 posting here just for statistics:
Subscription Status:Canceled Expires:19/11/2008 08:37:48
I need a little break, what i once in while do! Is there something waiting for me if i come back? Well, not till March next year...
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Wilma JugsJiggle
|
Posted - 2008.11.18 03:29:00 -
[5594]
Originally by: Intaki Tusmik Edited by: Intaki Tusmik on 17/11/2008 22:27:57 posting here just for statistics:
Subscription Status:Canceled Expires:19/11/2008 08:37:48
I need a little break, what i once in while do! Is there something waiting for me if i come back? Well, not till March next year...
But.... but.... but .... that makes no sense. Surely you are forced to stay and p(l)ay. |
Elias Stroganov
|
Posted - 2008.11.18 07:10:00 -
[5595]
So its comming to an end, money grab perfekt, community has bend over.......... end off comm.......
its nice to see how much time i got know, NOT playing EVE
farewell CCP (would be nice if you add a smilley with a rised middlefinger) |
Soma Khan
|
Posted - 2008.11.18 14:46:00 -
[5596]
Originally by: Corbin Swift Well my time is up. I'll be back for 1 or 2 months next year. For anyone that's keeping count, that's gonna cost them $180-$200 next year. (2 accounts). Hey, in 2 years I'll have saved enough for a PS3!
\o/
Corbin
Don't let the door hit you on the ass on your way out.
Oh yeah, and get a real job you bum. |
Dian Cecht
Omnicorp Enterprises
|
Posted - 2008.11.18 18:09:00 -
[5597]
Edited by: Dian Cecht on 18/11/2008 18:09:53 Cleared out a few cyno alts. From 4 accounts to 3. Will merge what's left into 2 accounts and take a view from there.
Dian |
Squirrrel
Gallente Squirrrel Industries
|
Posted - 2008.11.18 20:57:00 -
[5598]
Originally by: Soma Khan
Don't let the door hit you on the ass on your way out.
Oh yeah, and get a real job you bum.
Even by your standards; thats just weak.
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Leica Stroganow
|
Posted - 2008.11.19 05:51:00 -
[5599]
Originally by: Soma Khan
Originally by: Corbin Swift Well my time is up. I'll be back for 1 or 2 months next year. For anyone that's keeping count, that's gonna cost them $180-$200 next year. (2 accounts). Hey, in 2 years I'll have saved enough for a PS3!
\o/
Corbin
Don't let the door hit you on the ass on your way out.
Oh yeah, and get a real job you bum.
Lol... BEND OVER SOMA, seems you are the (censored), or at least one of the humans that would have been voted for adolf half a century ago But even you will learn the lesson, it might be to late, but thats life mate (rised middlefinger)
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Saberon
Gallente C3 Tech
|
Posted - 2008.11.19 14:43:00 -
[5600]
Edited by: Saberon on 19/11/2008 14:44:26 OMG... I can just say OMG...
Do I see 186 pages of players whining and crying that CCP don't let them play the game for free?! What do you expect?
As was nicely explained in the Dev Blog, and by posts by CCP Employees, CCP is a business, CCP is a service Provider, where you pay a monthly fee to get some services provided, such as the possibility to log in and change a skill, keep a skill running while offline, this forum, and so on.
In the first place, I am THRILLED with the fact that you can train skills offline in EVE - look at the other games where you only gain skill with Exp you gain from questing or killing. You don't have to have your computer running EVE for every one of the 43 200 minutes there is in a month, to get that damned BS V skill completed.
Geez, guys, get a grip - CCP is a business, and if they don't do a good job at being a business, there's nowhere for us to fly spaceships in a near future. Also, do you guys think that the IT Team at CCP just goes out in the backyard with a fishing pole, and pulls up a server every now and then, from their geysers? No, that's a WOW thing to do, but it doesn't work in real life. And it WOULD be sweet if all that staff worked PRO BONO to make you happy, but I doubt their families would approve of that either.
To those of you have (ab)used this bug for this time, should, rather than whining about a problem being solved, say "ok, at least I got 18 free months, not too bad"
Grow up, this is happening in Real Life, and not some other fantasy world
Be Positive :)
Cheers, Sab
PS: And now that I have posted, you can read out to the left, which character to contract your remaining goods to ;-)
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Tasty Bit
Gallente UNITED STAR SYNDICATE
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Posted - 2008.11.19 14:50:00 -
[5601]
Originally by: Saberon Edited by: Saberon on 19/11/2008 14:44:26 OMG... I can just say OMG...
Do I see 186 pages of players whining and crying that CCP don't let them play the game for free?!)
You obviously never read any of this thread.
Thanks for the rest of your tl;dr reply, though.
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Apertotes
Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2008.11.19 15:31:00 -
[5602]
Originally by: Saberon Edited by: Saberon on 19/11/2008 14:44:26 OMG... I can just say OMG...
Do I see 186 pages of players whining and crying that CCP don't let them play the game for free?! What do you expect?
As was nicely explained in the Dev Blog, and by posts by CCP Employees, CCP is a business, CCP is a service Provider, where you pay a monthly fee to get some services provided, such as the possibility to log in and change a skill, keep a skill running while offline, this forum, and so on.
In the first place, I am THRILLED with the fact that you can train skills offline in EVE - look at the other games where you only gain skill with Exp you gain from questing or killing. You don't have to have your computer running EVE for every one of the 43 200 minutes there is in a month, to get that damned BS V skill completed.
Geez, guys, get a grip - CCP is a business, and if they don't do a good job at being a business, there's nowhere for us to fly spaceships in a near future. Also, do you guys think that the IT Team at CCP just goes out in the backyard with a fishing pole, and pulls up a server every now and then, from their geysers? No, that's a WOW thing to do, but it doesn't work in real life. And it WOULD be sweet if all that staff worked PRO BONO to make you happy, but I doubt their families would approve of that either.
To those of you have (ab)used this bug for this time, should, rather than whining about a problem being solved, say "ok, at least I got 18 free months, not too bad"
Grow up, this is happening in Real Life, and not some other fantasy world
Be Positive :)
Cheers, Sab
PS: And now that I have posted, you can read out to the left, which character to contract your remaining goods to ;-)
show me a single game where you need 35 years to get to level limit. also, go an tell 11 million of wow players that rest bonus is unfair and that they arent paying for it.
and then, come back and read the thread before embarrasing yourself again.
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Saberon
Gallente C3 Tech
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Posted - 2008.11.19 16:19:00 -
[5603]
Oh God, you need everything spoon fed? (That means that it should all be so easy to read that you don't need to think much about it to understand it)
It was a sarcastic remark (Sarcasm is stating the opposite of an intended meaning especially in order to sneeringly, slyly, jest or mock a person, situation or thing. It is strongly associated with irony, with some definitions classifying it as a type of verbal irony intended to insult or wound.) in which I mean that I can't understand why someone expects to be able to start a 60 day skill, end the subscription, come back 2 months later, reactivate the account, and find the character has completed the skill.
I did read the first 25-or so pages, and then every few pages, and guess what - aside from a few witty and thoughtful comments, it's all the same.
Rested exp in WOW only grants you 1,5 levels of bonus exp, so what was your point? (Ok, perhaps CCP should allow for a 24 hour leniency / grace, before shutting off the skill)
Quoting the OP (Original Post = What this thread should be about) "we will disable the ability to train skills on a suspended account." which is exactly what I am talking about here.
Geez!
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Skylar Vodkabar
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Posted - 2008.11.19 17:03:00 -
[5604]
I'm just going to wait until the Spring/Summer Expansion comes about.
But i don't know, by then maybe CCP will start charging for Expansions, according to the Accouting guys, thats a good way to make ever more money.
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Apertotes
Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2008.11.19 17:28:00 -
[5605]
Originally by: Skylar Vodkabar
But i don't know, by then maybe CCP will start charging for Expansions, according to the Accouting guys, thats a good way to make ever more money.
well, they'll ninja edit the kwnoledge base and say that free expansions were a long time bug that has just been resolved. there will be a huge riot on the forums and CCP alts will call everybody cheap for whining so much.
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Squirrrel
Gallente Squirrrel Industries
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Posted - 2008.11.19 19:01:00 -
[5606]
Originally by: Saberon
Do I see 186 pages of players whining and crying that CCP don't let them play the game for free?!
No, you don't. Some of it is about just losing unsubbed training, most of it is more to the point (read more than a few random posts, I'm not going to spoon feed you either.)
Oh and there's a sprinkling of posts such as yours. You know, people who have totally missed the point, think they know what the thread is about and seemingly leave pretty soon after posting with their tail between their legs.
Originally by: Saberon Oh God, you need everything spoon fed? (That means that it should all be so easy to read that you don't need to think much about it to understand it)
Says the guy that has failed to grasp more than what he perceives as a whine about not 'playing' for free...
Originally by: Saberon
It was a sarcastic remark (Sarcasm is stating the opposite of an intended meaning especially in order to sneeringly, slyly, jest or mock a person, situation or thing. It is strongly associated with irony, with some definitions classifying it as a type of verbal irony intended to insult or wound.)
Originally by: Saberon
I did read the first 25-or so pages, and then every few pages, and guess what - aside from a few witty and thoughtful comments, it's all the same.
Guess what? No it isn't.
Originally by: Saberon
Geez!
Yeah, precisely. |
Squirrrel
Gallente Squirrrel Industries
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Posted - 2008.11.19 19:24:00 -
[5607]
Originally by: Saberon
PS: And now that I have posted, you can read out to the left, which character to contract your remaining goods to ;-)
Oh I get it. You're trying to provide an incentive for all the players that are quitting to re-sub, come back to the game and continually hunt you down to wipe that (probable) smarmy, pleased-with-oneself grin off your face.
Nearly.
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Lorac Caladon
Caldari The Cowboy Junkies
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Posted - 2008.11.19 19:24:00 -
[5608]
Edited by: Lorac Caladon on 19/11/2008 19:27:25
Originally by: Saberon Edited by: Saberon on 19/11/2008 14:44:26 OMG... I can just say OMG...
Do I see 186 pages of players whining and crying that CCP don't let them play the game for free?!
Is that your interpretation of this thread? If so, you can stop reading now.
Originally by: Saberon What do you expect?
Honesty would be a good start.
Originally by: Saberon As was nicely explained in the Dev Blog, and by posts by CCP Employees, CCP is a business, CCP is a service Provider, where you pay a monthly fee to get some services provided, such as the possibility to log in and change a skill, keep a skill running while offline, this forum, and so on.
Show me one post in this thread where anyone refutes that CCP is a business.
Originally by: Saberon In the first place, I am THRILLED with the fact that you can train skills offline in EVE - look at the other games where you only gain skill with Exp you gain from questing or killing. You don't have to have your computer running EVE for every one of the 43 200 minutes there is in a month, to get that damned BS V skill completed.
So, EVE is so unique in the MMOG realm that they should not be expected to do something unique? Got it!
Originally by: Saberon Geez, guys, get a grip - CCP is a business, and if they don't do a good job at being a business, there's nowhere for us to fly spaceships in a near future. Also, do you guys think that the IT Team at CCP just goes out in the backyard with a fishing pole, and pulls up a server every now and then, from their geysers? No, that's a WOW thing to do, but it doesn't work in real life. And it WOULD be sweet if all that staff worked PRO BONO to make you happy, but I doubt their families would approve of that either.
Jump back into reality for one more second before you head out into fairyland please:
Originally by: Saberon To those of you have (ab)used this bug for this time, should, rather than whining about a problem being solved, say "ok, at least I got 18 free months, not too bad"
Grow up, this is happening in Real Life, and not some other fantasy world
Please point out just 1 post by any CCP "Official", before Torfifrans blog and that was not later rescinded, that indicates that "Ghost Training" was a bug. For the record, several other posters in this thread (and in others) have shown where "GT" was a documented feature in the Official Players Guide until AFTER Torfifrans announcement.
Originally by: Saberon Be Positive :)
Or blissfully ignorant like yourself?
Cheers, Sab
Originally by: Saberon PS: And now that I have posted, you can read out to the left, which character to contract your remaining goods to ;-)
It's good to read something original now and then. Did someone make this up for you or do you take the credit?
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Talsha Talamar
Amarr Nebula Rasa Holdings Nebula Rasa
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Posted - 2008.11.19 20:24:00 -
[5609]
This is by now the longest thread, in the documented history of the "EVE Information Portal" section.
Reaching that status just one month after the incident... |
Saberon
Gallente C3 Tech
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Posted - 2008.11.19 20:40:00 -
[5610]
w/e
You guys are babbling about CCP saying GT being a bug ot not, or claimed by CCP, blah blah
You know what? It's a game with a monthly fee, and training offline is a part of that game. I am amazed that some of you guys, who've been abusing this feature, rather than just being quiet and follow the intentions, which is "pay to play", prefer to sit here ranting about CCP lying about it. It doesn't matter if it costs server load or not, or whatever other reasons you might have. CCP is a service provider, who charges (a pretty small amount too) for that service, and nowhere does it say that you have to - it's an offer, take it or leave it.
If it makes you guys, Lorac and Squirrel and others, feel better to ridicule me in that way, lol, go for it, feel free, it doesn't change the fact that you should pay to be training a character in a game just as much as all we honest paying customers are :)
But my point stands. (all of them)
Enjoy! (I am)
Btw, ... Nah :) |
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Squirrrel
Gallente Squirrrel Industries
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Posted - 2008.11.19 20:49:00 -
[5611]
Edited by: Squirrrel on 19/11/2008 20:50:07
Originally by: Saberon w/e
You guys are babbling about CCP saying GT being a bug ot not, or claimed by CCP, blah blah
You know what? It's a game with a monthly fee, and training offline is a part of that game. I am amazed that some of you guys, who've been abusing this feature, rather than just being quiet and follow the intentions, which is "pay to play", prefer to sit here ranting about CCP lying about it. It doesn't matter if it costs server load or not, or whatever other reasons you might have. CCP is a service provider, who charges (a pretty small amount too) for that service, and nowhere does it say that you have to - it's an offer, take it or leave it.
If it makes you guys, Lorac and Squirrel and others, feel better to ridicule me in that way, lol, go for it, feel free, it doesn't change the fact that you should pay to be training a character in a game just as much as all we honest paying customers are :)
But my point stands. (all of them)
Enjoy! (I am)
Btw, ... Nah :)
So it doesn't bother you one bit then that the (originally) stated reason for doing away with it was a lie? If it's really as clear cut as you say, then why would they risk the wrath of their paying customers by lying about it? |
Saberon
Gallente C3 Tech
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Posted - 2008.11.19 20:59:00 -
[5612]
Originally by: Squirrrel Edited by: Squirrrel on 19/11/2008 20:50:07 So it doesn't bother you one bit then that the (originally) stated reason for doing away with it was a lie?
No, it doesn't.
I never had a reason to be affected, other than saying "No way! People have been ninjaing skill training time? :O" Besides, CCP are in no way obligated to consult any of us before making a decision like that - it's just great that they still do at times.
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Nannu Who
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Posted - 2008.11.19 21:00:00 -
[5613]
I don't like the idea of someone thinking I abuse eve or any of it's game features by simply making use of them. Especially when it causes no harm to anyone but myself, not to make use of 'said feature.'
So what? An honest paying eve member would go on a break and think to themselves, 'Nope, not gonna set a long skill. Just wouldn't be honest. Say what I'll do is I'll actually pay for that account and never log on till said skill is complete.'
It is hard to not feel bereaved about something that has been around since forever. Even more so when a change prevents skill points/character progression.
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Tasty Bit
Gallente UNITED STAR SYNDICATE
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Posted - 2008.11.19 21:00:00 -
[5614]
Originally by: Saberon It was a sarcastic remark
I'll refrain from the sarcasm;wit comparison for the moment. And I cba reading any more of your post(s).
The topic is more or less dead (at least in the eyes of CCCP. Ok, remove the "more or less").
Arse/biting/later/date will happen.
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Gus Gallente
Dark Star Cartel Molotov Coalition
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Posted - 2008.11.19 21:10:00 -
[5615]
Edited by: Gus Gallente on 19/11/2008 21:10:55
Originally by: Saberon
Originally by: Squirrrel Edited by: Squirrrel on 19/11/2008 20:50:07 So it doesn't bother you one bit then that the (originally) stated reason for doing away with it was a lie?
No, it doesn't.
I never had a reason to be affected, other than saying "No way! People have been ninjaing skill training time? :O" Besides, CCP are in no way obligated to consult any of us before making a decision like that - it's just great that they still do at times.
LOL, CCP and transparency...
If it were a bug, they should have said so 5 years ago. Or 4. Or 3. Or 2 even. They listed it as a feature in their manual. Either that was a lie, which is distrubing because devs throw around terms like "working as intended" in combination with the term "feature", or it was a lie for them to say it was a bug. Either way, you're saying them lying to their playerbase doesn't bother you, as if that's some sort of moral high-ground.
The moral high ground would have been for CCP to be honest. Your feelings regarding that particular matter are really quite irrelevant.
--- It's never just a game when you're winning. - George Carlin |
Squirrrel
Gallente Squirrrel Industries
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Posted - 2008.11.19 21:34:00 -
[5616]
Originally by: Saberon
Originally by: Squirrrel Edited by: Squirrrel on 19/11/2008 20:50:07 So it doesn't bother you one bit then that the (originally) stated reason for doing away with it was a lie?
No, it doesn't.
I never had a reason to be affected, other than saying "No way! People have been ninjaing skill training time? :O"
Ok, let's put WHAT the lie was; aside for a second to be clear on one thing.
You not bothered at all, when you are paying to play a monthly fee to play a game and the company you are paying lies to you? And add to that, they don't only lie, they try to reinforce the lie in a interview to a third party, make a hint at the truth, finally admit the truth in a round-about fashion and all the while blame it on another third party that wrote a guide for them? You can also toss in the fact that it has only seemingly become a bug when it's convenient for them, and CCP backed the feature themselves until that time.
And yet, despite all this, you're honestly not bothered? Doesn't the above suggest they were at least a bit (if not totally) underhand about the change, especially given the "transparency" spiel after the T20 fiasco. This isn't transparency, this is smoke and mirrors. Why do YOU think they felt the need to lie about it?
The fact you didn't know that people were using unsubbed training all this time was your own fault, even though it doesn't seem that you would have taken advantage of a feature yourself anyway. You know, you wouldn't want to do that and then when it's turned on it's head later on, have someone basically calling you a cheat or an abuser would you?
Originally by: Saberon
Besides, CCP are in no way obligated to consult any of us before making a decision like that - it's just great that they still do at times.
And just to prove that you still haven't really read the thread and the context of the arguments.... we know that. We know it's their game, they own it, they have the right to turn a dominix into a frigate or a hauler tomorrow if they so wished, or turn high-sec to low on a whim, raise the sub charges or even destroy Jita in a moment of RP. We know this.
However, since the game is not free to play, and we pay for it: a) We don't have to like it. b) We are able to protest about it. c) We are within our rights to quit over it. d) We don't expect them to lie to us about it.
I'd also like to point out to you that during the period where this feature-turned-bug was enabled, you still had to "pay to play." I never used the feature myself, except in times where renewal pages were down.
I don't really care too much about other people using it, nor particularly about them stopping it. (although I still think it will cost them more money in the long-term.) |
Lorac Caladon
Caldari The Cowboy Junkies
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Posted - 2008.11.19 21:51:00 -
[5617]
Originally by: Saberon w/e
You guys are babbling about CCP saying GT being a bug ot not, or claimed by CCP, blah blah
Babbling? Do you acknowledge that CCP advertised the so called "Ghost Training" feature in the player guide up until about a month ago?
Originally by: Saberon You know what? It's a game with a monthly fee, and training offline is a part of that game.
And if they removed this "feature", labeled it as a "bug" and stated in an official release that it would be removed for a HOST of ridiculous reasons, would you still "toe the company line"?
Originally by: Saberon I am amazed that some of you guys, who've been abusing this feature, rather than just being quiet and follow the intentions, which is "pay to play", prefer to sit here ranting about CCP lying about it.
A. If you have proof that anyone has been "abusing" game mechanics, petition it. Otherwise, keep your accusations to yourself. B. How in the hell do you presume to know (any better than any of us) what CCP's intentions were? C. The part about "being quiet" is something I will ignore. You may choose to be "spoon-fed" but I don't like it.
Originally by: Saberon It doesn't matter if it costs server load or not, or whatever other reasons you might have. CCP is a service provider, who charges (a pretty small amount too) for that service, and nowhere does it say that you have to - it's an offer, take it or leave it.
What, exactly, do you not get about this? "We" are quitting this game, have already quit or will be consolidating accounts. Read the thread to see who is doing what if you choose, I couldn't care less either way.
Originally by: Saberon If it makes you guys, Lorac and Squirrel and others, feel better to ridicule me in that way, lol, go for it, feel free, it doesn't change the fact that you should pay to be training a character in a game just as much as all we honest paying customers are :)
You posted in this thread of your own will. If you think you are being ridiculed because we can show you where you are wrong, so be it. And for someone that embraces the concept of honesty so much, I have to say that I think that you are backing the wrong horse.
Originally by: Saberon But my point stands. (all of them)
I asked you to stay out of fairyland...
Originally by: Saberon Enjoy! (I am)
Btw, ... Nah :)
Enjoy what?
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Squirrrel
Gallente Squirrrel Industries
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Posted - 2008.11.19 22:00:00 -
[5618]
Edited by: Squirrrel on 19/11/2008 22:00:34
Originally by: Lorac Caladon
Originally by: Saberon If it makes you guys, Lorac and Squirrel and others, feel better to ridicule me in that way, lol, go for it, feel free, it doesn't change the fact that you should pay to be training a character in a game just as much as all we honest paying customers are :)
You posted in this thread of your own will. If you think you are being ridiculed because we can show you where you are wrong, so be it. And for someone that embraces the concept of honesty so much, I have to say that I think that you are backing the wrong horse.
Lol. That's just class.
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Nannu Who
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Posted - 2008.11.20 00:31:00 -
[5619]
Squirrrel I was just wondering...
...what do you think the total reply count might drop by if your account(s) had suspended before the blog was ever put up?
Bearing in mind the replies to your replies I'll take a stab at 500 ^^
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Chani Fedaykin
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Posted - 2008.11.20 01:00:00 -
[5620]
Originally by: Nannu Who Squirrrel I was just wondering...
...what do you think the total reply count might drop by if your account(s) had suspended before the blog was ever put up?
Bearing in mind the replies to your replies I'll take a stab at 500 ^^
he is not the only one expressing his disagreement, and not the only one who is able to back up his argumentation with a plausible logic ... compared to many (all?) posters that applaud the change and how it was performed.
but i dont see a point to reply to a stupid post, that was taken apart more than once already - so i refrain from posting after it was shown already that someone is not able to understand the matter of the whole topic or just too lazy to read anything before making a post.
ps: i am no alt of squirrel - and sooner or later you will notice you will be spared from my posts ... thanks to ccp's inadequat behaviour and their inability to show at least some respect to their players. |
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Nannu Who
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Posted - 2008.11.20 01:33:00 -
[5621]
Squirrrel?
I just wanted some light banter and their personal opinion.
Seems as though another person saw it as an attack at you. Bless.
There was no hostility meant to be implied by my question. I thought the person it may concern would also laugh about it.
C'mon it's gotta be high.
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Lorac Caladon
Caldari The Cowboy Junkies
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Posted - 2008.11.20 01:53:00 -
[5622]
Edited by: Lorac Caladon on 20/11/2008 01:55:30
Originally by: Nannu Who Squirrrel I was just wondering...
...what do you think the total reply count might drop by if your account(s) had suspended before the blog was ever put up?
Bearing in mind the replies to your replies I'll take a stab at 500 ^^
I think the post count would be much higher to be honest. Squirrrel is able and willing to cut through the BS and call things what they are. If Squirrrel makes a post that echoes what I want to write...I say to myself "Good job Squirrrel!" and then I don't post.
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IR Scoutar
Caldari State War Academy
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Posted - 2008.11.20 06:26:00 -
[5623]
this topic still alive ? gezz
its still full of fannboys >_< . . . . . . . . and now that squirrel thought i was yet another ccp fanboy
its fanboys of the game that have some sort of moral values vs fanboys of the game that think ccp defecates gold
so like erm cant remember who it was above me sayd i commend the people still seeping thru the posts and try to explain what moral values are
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aak88
Caldari 7ulm Saif Niobe Industrial Inc. Tread Alliance
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Posted - 2008.11.20 08:37:00 -
[5624]
-4 paid accounts
Why do you hate us CCP?
This seems to be a large middle finger to many players that happen to have financial/rl difficulties.
...and no you can't have my stuff as i traded it all to my main.
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Carl Druffee
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.11.20 15:39:00 -
[5625]
Originally by: aak88 -4 paid accounts
Why do you hate us CCP?
This seems to be a large middle finger to many players that happen to have financial/rl difficulties.
...and no you can't have my stuff as i traded it all to my main.
Well said! Now I just hope I won't be mistaken for an isk-seller or buyer when I trade all my assets between my accounts!
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Squirrrel
Gallente Squirrrel Industries
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Posted - 2008.11.20 18:57:00 -
[5626]
Originally by: Nannu Who Squirrrel I was just wondering...
...what do you think the total reply count might drop by if your account(s) had suspended before the blog was ever put up?
Bearing in mind the replies to your replies I'll take a stab at 500 ^^
37? |
Nannu Who
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Posted - 2008.11.21 02:21:00 -
[5627]
lol
Lorac thinks it's higher than my guess.
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Squirrrel
Gallente Squirrrel Industries
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Posted - 2008.11.21 10:26:00 -
[5628]
Originally by: Nannu Who lol
Lorac thinks it's higher than my guess.
Please allow me to change your question somewhat though for a more telling one:
...what do you think the total reply count might have dropped by if T0rfins had simply stated that the unsubbed training feature was being stopped and changed by CCP for financial reasons before the blog (thread) was ever put up?
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Doctor Penguin
Amarr Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2008.11.21 10:30:00 -
[5629]
Face it you twits, you've lost.
I agree with the chap that said that he didn't care that CCP had "lied" to him. If your so mentally insecure as for that to bother you, I'd advise seeing a shrink about a bad case of irrational paranoia.
Pay or leave. ________________________________________________
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Midas Man
Caldari Dzark Asylum
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Posted - 2008.11.21 11:00:00 -
[5630]
Edited by: Midas Man on 21/11/2008 11:04:37 Edited by: Midas Man on 21/11/2008 11:03:17
Originally by: Doctor Penguin Face it you twits, you've lost.
I agree with the chap that said that he didn't care that CCP had "lied" to him. If your so mentally insecure as for that to bother you, I'd advise seeing a shrink about a bad case of irrational paranoia.
Pay or leave.
Im sure you would be happy if they announced a new expansion and on the day of release put it on the Forum that the expantion will cost $30. They can do that if they want. And Im sure you would be even happier knowing they had said numerous times they would never charge for expantions.
Would you also be happy if they decided to kill all your skill, assets and Isk with no warning. They have the RIGHT to do it whenever and for whatever reason. It would anger the player base and make them leave but im sure YOU would be happy to stay because CCP have the right to do it.
Would you be happy if you local shop advertised x goods at x price but when you got their the price was double and the shop assistant says " in the terms and conditions under the ad it states 'We have the right to change this offer at any time'"
Get a grip on reality mate no matter how small or insignificant you see this LIE to be it, is still a LIE and nobody should ever Trust someone who LIE's I leave you to work out why.
Edittied to add, Your sig is fantastic, for someone who believes it is acceptable to Lie I can understand why your plotting Humanities downfall. You should change it to "I plotted the downfall of my humanity in 1978 and succeeded quickly" |
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Squirrrel
Gallente Squirrrel Industries
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Posted - 2008.11.21 11:21:00 -
[5631]
Edited by: Squirrrel on 21/11/2008 11:23:59
Originally by: Doctor Penguin Face it you twits, you've lost. I agree with the chap that said that he didn't care that CCP had "lied" to him. If your so mentally insecure as for that to bother you, I'd advise seeing a shrink about a bad case of irrational paranoia.
If you don't believe that CCP lied, then yes you could arguably accuse us of irrational paranoia.
If you don't believe they lied, you're guilty of being either ignorant or just a "twit."
p.s. I really don't think you should be advising on mental health issues either; I'm really rather dubious as to whether you really are in any way medically trained.
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Zanpt
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.11.21 12:30:00 -
[5632]
Originally by: Carl Druffee Well said! Now I just hope I won't be mistaken for an isk-seller or buyer when I trade all my assets between my accounts!
You shouldn't have any difficulty trading assets between your characters. When you transfer ISK using the wallet window you should fill in the description box. CCP undoubtedly has various ways of flagging large ISK transfers and examining at least some of them. If you accurately describe each transfer, at least the mystery is dispelled up front, reducing the chance of an erroneous determination by CCP.
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Lorac Caladon
Caldari The Cowboy Junkies
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Posted - 2008.11.21 15:25:00 -
[5633]
Originally by: Nannu Who lol
Lorac thinks it's higher than my guess.
I said that I think the number of posts in this thread would be higher (not lower) if Squirrrel was not posting. I don't really know why this matters to you anyway. To each his own I guess...
Also, as this is the last day for this account, I'm out. If CCP revisits this decision (or even the GTC fiasco) I might see you all again, otherwise, take care.
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Doctor Penguin
Amarr Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2008.11.21 17:05:00 -
[5634]
Edited by: Doctor Penguin on 21/11/2008 17:04:58 Midias: Straw Man arguement.
Person A: X is a good idea. Peson B: I say that Y is like X, but Y is percieved to be bad. As you support X, you must support Y.
Sorry mate, that's not how it works in the real world. |
Lorac Caladon
Caldari The Cowboy Junkies
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Posted - 2008.11.21 19:20:00 -
[5635]
Originally by: Doctor Penguin Face it you twits, you've lost.
Who made you the decision maker dumbass?
Originally by: Doctor Penguin I agree with the chap that said that he didn't care that CCP had "lied" to him. If your so mentally insecure as for that to bother you, I'd advise seeing a shrink about a bad case of irrational paranoia.
So you don't mind being a dumbass and a sucker? Got it.
Originally by: Doctor Penguin Pay or leave.
This is the only thing you wrote that has any merit.
Originally by: Doctor Penguin Midias: Straw Man arguement.
Person A: X is a good idea. Peson B: I say that Y is like X, but Y is percieved to be bad. As you support X, you must support Y.
Sorry mate, that's not how it works in the real world.
And again, just to confirm for the rest of us what a total dumbass you are, you can't even get one of the most common fallacies of all applied correctly.
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Doctor Penguin
Amarr Imperial Academy
|
Posted - 2008.11.21 20:17:00 -
[5636]
I also don't rise to the bait of people calling me a dumbass. If slinging insults is your first line of defence for those who critique , I think all that does is points out the obvious - the people who are whining on this thread are twits.
Now, I know you want a good arguement, but in all honesty, I think that you badly need to sit down and contemplate the value of continuing this discussion.
Also, wikipedia disagrees with you. A straw man arguement...
Quote: is an informal fallacy based on misrepresentation of an opponent's position. To "set up a straw man," one describes a position that superficially resembles an opponent's actual view, yet is easier to refute. Then, one attributes that position to the opponent. For example, someone might deliberately overstate the opponent's position. While a straw man argument may work as a rhetorical techniqueùand succeed in persuading peopleùit carries little or no real evidential weight, since the opponent's actual argument has not been refuted.
As in, if I say X and you link X to Y (Y representing a "bad thing" and then attack me for supporting Y, you are misrepresenting my opinion.
Seriously. See a shrink, unless you're just sitting in this thread slicing your wrists and chucking the blood at those that dare argue at your opinion. ________________________________________________
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Squirrrel
Gallente Squirrrel Industries
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Posted - 2008.11.21 20:37:00 -
[5637]
Originally by: Doctor Penguin
If slinging insults is your first line of defence for those who critique , I think all that does is points out the obvious - the people who are whining on this thread are twits.
Originally by: Doctor Penguin Face it you twits, you've lost.
Let he who is without sin cast the first stone...
You're a hypocrite.
Originally by: Doctor Penguin
Now, I know you want a good arguement, but in all honesty, I think that you badly need to sit down and contemplate the value of continuing this discussion.
You feel it's a worthless thread and yet are still here, we feel it's worthwhile and are still here... who's the more foolish?
I can't even remember what your stance in the argument was now, on the basis of your last post though I'm pretty sure it was flawed.
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Lorac Caladon
Caldari The Cowboy Junkies
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Posted - 2008.11.21 20:44:00 -
[5638]
Originally by: Doctor Penguin I also don't rise to the bait of people calling me a dumbass. If slinging insults is your first line of defence for those who critique , I think all that does is points out the obvious - the people who are whining on this thread are twits.
Now, I know you want a good arguement, but in all honesty, I think that you badly need to sit down and contemplate the value of continuing this discussion.
Also, wikipedia disagrees with you. A straw man arguement...
Quote: is an informal fallacy based on misrepresentation of an opponent's position. To "set up a straw man," one describes a position that superficially resembles an opponent's actual view, yet is easier to refute. Then, one attributes that position to the opponent. For example, someone might deliberately overstate the opponent's position. While a straw man argument may work as a rhetorical techniqueùand succeed in persuading peopleùit carries little or no real evidential weight, since the opponent's actual argument has not been refuted.
As in, if I say X and you link X to Y (Y representing a "bad thing" and then attack me for supporting Y, you are misrepresenting my opinion.
Seriously. See a shrink, unless you're just sitting in this thread slicing your wrists and chucking the blood at those that dare argue at your opinion.
Dumbass. You "slung" first with the "Twit" comment. And now you can't be bothered to raise an argument other than "Nuh, uh. Wiki says so". Take some time off from being an "Internet Shrink" and read a book on the subject. You will find that you are profoundly wrong. At any rate, I (and apparently others) want CCP to have a chance to hear our complaints in a public forum. If you don't like them, you are free to post your opinion as well (as laid out in the EULA). But don't come here claiming foul when you openly insult the majority of the posters in this thread and then get called out for being ignorant. "Rise" to that or not, it's the truth.
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Doctor Penguin
Amarr Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2008.11.22 11:26:00 -
[5639]
Edited by: Doctor Penguin on 22/11/2008 11:26:33
Originally by: Squirrrel Let he who is without sin cast the first stone...
You're a hypocrite.
Nope, because twit is about as offending as calling somebody a carrot.
Now, if you'll stop dismissing my arguement because I'm so obviously more idiotic than you, then you might understand that my arguement was that it's bloody sad to sit on this thread crying into your cup of emo. Get over it.
PS: Above Whiner: Starting said rebuttal with dumbass. Nice. ________________________________________________
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Deadeye Devie
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.11.22 11:55:00 -
[5640]
Edited by: Deadeye Devie on 22/11/2008 11:56:14 I, myself, find this incident that CCP has caused such an uproar about a little offensive. And, though coming close to quitting, have chosen to stick it out for a little while longer to see what the new patch (not expansion, lets not lie to ourselves here!) brings to the game.
The fact that a feature that CCP backed and pointed out as a selling point, and which is a major benefit to the more adult player with family, work, and other real life commitments found more beneficial as they can still keep up with 12-15 year old game-addict playing every day and every hour he he has free made this game, in my and many others eyes, a cut above the rest. I myself have played Lineage 2, guild wars, ran and hosted a persistant world on Neverwinter Nights, a little on WoW, silkroad, City of Heros, and i would have to say this is the most blatent case insult to the players, and, as stated, in the longrun i can only see this hurting CCP financially.
we are not moaning n whining for the sake of it, we are merely pointing out that CCP cannot treat its players like braindead addicts and sheep. If you say something is a feature for 5 years, then when you choose to stop it, do NOT lie to your customers and say its a bug and we have been abusing it...words can be more deadly than any other form of weapon, and how do you think this whole fiasco has gone down from a PR standpoint? "dont bother with EvE, its buggy and the developers and owners lie to you and accuse you of cheating because you used something they said was there working as they intended it since it started!!!!" i myself have told many people asking me recenrtly if i think it worth playing 'No, dont bother trying it at the moment...give it a year or 2...' I cant help thinking this is probably the most common reaction of most players at the moment, making the sudden advertising of the power of 2 promotion with free game time a bit coincidental due to the games current climate Whoever appeals to the law against his fellow man is either a fool or a coward. Whoever cannot take care of themself without that law is both. |
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Squirrrel
Gallente Squirrrel Industries
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Posted - 2008.11.22 16:17:00 -
[5641]
Originally by: Doctor Penguin Edited by: Doctor Penguin on 22/11/2008 11:26:33
Originally by: Squirrrel Let he who is without sin cast the first stone...
You're a hypocrite.
Nope, because twit is about as offending as calling somebody a carrot.
Now, if you'll stop dismissing my arguement because I'm so obviously more idiotic than you, then you might understand that my arguement was that it's bloody sad to sit on this thread crying into your cup of emo. Get over it.
PS: Above Whiner: Starting said rebuttal with dumbass. Nice.
It really doesn't matter how offensive it is, it's still used as an insult and by defintion still proves you wrong I'm afraid.
What you've stated isn't really an argument in the context of the thread. It's your point of view an nothing more, on what we are actually doing here; you're so-called argument doesn't mention anything about unsubbed training, ccp or the lies.
My point still stands, you're the fool for continuing to post in a thread that you feel has no merit, and also I might point out, being purely negative and not being at all constructive or presenting a counter-argument. At least the other posters in the thread are interested in the contents.
Go wiki some of that, and try to not jump on bandwagons such as "emo-whine-train" because it makes you look a bit dim.
Keep posting though by all means, you're bumping a thread you don't approve of if nothing else. Job done.
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Tasty Bit
Gallente UNITED STAR SYNDICATE
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Posted - 2008.11.23 03:46:00 -
[5642]
Prior to this debacle, I used this ...erm...terrible so-called "ghost-training" often, I'll admit it. But, being somewhat touched, I had more accounts than the average player. It cost me a fortune (ok, it was isk, but the GTCs had to be bought by someone). And I would always reactivate the accounts once the skill that was training finished.
Since this farce I have an unmentionable number of accounts that I would otherwise have paid to reactivate, that are sitting inactive, unpaid-for, unsubscribed, call-it-what-you-want. Now... my heart's not in it. I just can't be arsed.
Maybe 4.5 years in Eve is start to get old, and the straw/camel's back thing occured. Who knows.
Anyway, keep up the good work CCP.
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Chani Fedaykin
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Posted - 2008.11.23 09:59:00 -
[5643]
last account expires today...
gl and fun too u all - and gl to ccp, perhaps you reconsider your crm strategy :P |
Kerfira
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Posted - 2008.11.23 12:07:00 -
[5644]
Y'all still crying?
The free lunch offer was cancelled... Deal with it!
Originally by: CCP Wrangler EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
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Squirrrel
Gallente Squirrrel Industries
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Posted - 2008.11.23 13:58:00 -
[5645]
Edited by: Squirrrel on 23/11/2008 13:58:13
Originally by: Kerfira Y'all still crying?
The free lunch offer was cancelled... Deal with it!
You know what? This guy may well appear to be ignorant and not have his finger on the pulse of the thread, but I think he's right, we really should just deal with it and stop crying!
By the way Kerfira, that thing you were talking about the other week with your friend; he was right, you were wrong. Sucks, but there you go.
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Von Domiki
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Posted - 2008.11.23 14:41:00 -
[5646]
Originally by: Squirrrel You know what? This guy may well appear to be ignorant and not have his finger on the pulse of the thread, but I think he's right, we really should just deal with it and stop crying!
Sure. CCP comes with another lies about their company and raises prices - deal with it and stop crying. Another feature turns into a bug, making EVE even more like all other MMORPGS - deal with it and stop crying.
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fried eggs
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.11.23 15:05:00 -
[5647]
Originally by: Von Domiki Sure. CCP comes with another lies about their company and raises prices - deal with it and stop crying. Another feature turns into a bug, making EVE even more like all other MMORPGS - deal with it and stop crying.
I'm pretty sure that Squirrrel was being facetious. If you read through the thread, he is one of the biggest opponents of this change.
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Von Domiki
|
Posted - 2008.11.23 19:20:00 -
[5648]
Originally by: fried eggs
Originally by: Von Domiki Sure. CCP comes with another lies about their company and raises prices - deal with it and stop crying. Another feature turns into a bug, making EVE even more like all other MMORPGS - deal with it and stop crying.
I'm pretty sure that Squirrrel was being facetious. If you read through the thread, he is one of the biggest opponents of this change.
Oh sorry, i haven't read all 188 pages, but i totally agree with majority
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Von Domiki
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Posted - 2008.11.23 20:35:00 -
[5649]
btw, here's an interesting thread on the topic: http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/208450
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Terces Yp's
|
Posted - 2008.11.24 09:41:00 -
[5650]
Yup, this has already been posted in the thread. Also that the same site that did the interview, later mentioned the removal of the feature as a fiasco. That's when people started to mention that word more often about CCP.
So no new news for this thread. It's drying up and dying with reluctance.
CCP Marketing Team: "Hey sign your buddies up to eve and get 30 days added to your account per each upgraded trial account"
This thread is no longer significant to CCP anymore... give it up people & surrender!
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Midas Man
Caldari Dzark Asylum
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Posted - 2008.11.24 10:21:00 -
[5651]
Edited by: Midas Man on 24/11/2008 10:22:13
Originally by: Terces Yp's Yup, this has already been posted in the thread. Also that the same site that did the interview, later mentioned the removal of the feature as a fiasco. That's when people started to mention that word more often about CCP.
So no new news for this thread. It's drying up and dying with reluctance.
CCP Marketing Team: "Hey sign your buddies up to eve and get 30 days added to your account per each upgraded trial account"
This thread is no longer significant to CCP anymore... give it up people & surrender!
Never Give up, the thread is slowing because most people (Who use the forums, small % of total Population) have made there opinion known. Also alo of people will be running out of Game time and not resubbing so no longer able to post.
I can continue posting untill January with 2 accounts and June with a further 3 after that my posting privaleges are gone.
I will keep posting here from time to time to remind CCP im only here because i payed before this BS move and i would imagine there are many more people in this situation.
CCP have dropped a bomb again and yet again they fail to apologies for "calling" all their player base dence, thick, unintellegent or however else you perceive these blatent lies. Lies can only work against people with less knowledge of the situation so CCP obviously though we all had less knowledge not a good way to treat you customers.
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Wanfeng
|
Posted - 2008.11.24 15:49:00 -
[5652]
all those who post positiv about this change or say its over to fight against it just lie. they are a good example for missing activitys against political decisions or destruction of enviroment. they see the problem, but dont see it as theirs. we all could decide how the game had to be, if we would just force ccp doing the change by leaving the game (to talk to them seems not to work). there was no trouble with ghosttraining at all, before it got nerfed. there was no need to cancel 30 and 90 day gtc's. but there was a desire of the community to talk to ccp about these changes.
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Skylar Vodkabar
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Posted - 2008.11.24 16:43:00 -
[5653]
Edited by: Skylar Vodkabar on 24/11/2008 16:44:50 If CCP wants to enter the mainstream market, they sould price their GTC/ETC at industry standars, like 29.99 for 60 days.
As for the whole "Pay to Play" argument, I can't play while my Sub is expired. And last time I checked, "playing" the game doesn't earn me experience points, only paying does.
"We figure out how to maximize our returns." Priceless quote at the cost of my future Sub.
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Orbius Prime
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.11.24 18:32:00 -
[5654]
I'm just seeing alot less people logging on... says enough for me [Buy cheap! 60day TimeCards SAVES Money ]
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Zebba
Gallente Northwind Research Agency
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Posted - 2008.11.24 20:12:00 -
[5655]
Originally by: Terces Yp's
This thread is no longer significant to CCP anymore... give it up people & surrender!
I believe it is a good thing to keep this thread going. Simply to show that there is a large number of people that care about the issue and how it was established.
And I can imagine they see this thread and are still confused people keep posting.
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Establisher
Caldari Delacroix Shipyards Novus Aevum
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Posted - 2008.11.24 22:49:00 -
[5656]
I Recently returned to eve and was unaware of this until today i am not that bothered about it being disabled but was more concerened that CCP lied to all of us in there reason for doing this. I will continue to play the game but i am no longer able to trust anything CCP has to say.
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Fawziyyah
|
Posted - 2008.11.24 22:58:00 -
[5657]
Originally by: Zebba
I believe it is a good thing to keep this thread going. Simply to show that there is a large number of people that care about the issue and how it was established.
And I can imagine they see this thread and are still confused people keep posting.
Totaly agree with you, I will continue checking the thread till 02/2009, and will post when I see fit. And I continue to say that this issue was an incentive to make people like me resub sooner, as this stands I have no goal to do it. I was with two more accounts that would get subscribed again before xmas... now they won't be.
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Farouq Rizer
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Posted - 2008.11.25 10:04:00 -
[5658]
Who would've thought CCP is more stubborn then SOE? The largest thread in EvE history and they don't even acknowledge that their customer base is not happy with this change. This is just as bad when SOE added the NGE to SWG despite over 90% of the players did not want it, and we all know what happened to that game...
What kind of company ignores thousands of customers and lies to them? Well it looks like CCP joined the club.
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Gemberslaafje
Eve Defence Force
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Posted - 2008.11.25 11:54:00 -
[5659]
I don't get it.
You pay for your account, you train,
You don't pay for your account, you don't train.
What the hell is so wrong with that you guys need 188 pages to complain about a purely natural thing?
Please, go play world of warcraft or something.
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Farouq Rizer
|
Posted - 2008.11.25 12:09:00 -
[5660]
Edited by: Farouq Rizer on 25/11/2008 12:11:21
Originally by: Gemberslaafje I don't get it.
You pay for your account, you train,
You don't pay for your account, you don't train.
What the hell is so wrong with that you guys need 188 pages to complain about a purely natural thing?
Please, go play world of warcraft or something.
Read the thread and maybe you'll understand most of us are not complaining about ghost training being removed, its the way CCP handled it.
Lets see you react if ccp said.."Being able to train while logged off has been a bug we've been trying to fix for the past 5 years, all characters must remain logged in or character training will stop. We're not trying to force you to play the game more, we just never wanted this feature to be in the game. Have a nice day!"
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Apertotes
Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2008.11.25 12:29:00 -
[5661]
Originally by: Gemberslaafje I don't get it.
You pay for your account, you train,
You don't pay for your account, you don't train.
What the hell is so wrong with that you guys need 188 pages to complain about a purely natural thing?
Please, go play world of warcraft or something.
thanks for the free bump
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fried eggs
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.11.25 14:58:00 -
[5662]
Edited by: fried eggs on 25/11/2008 14:58:29
Originally by: Gemberslaafje I don't get it.
That's obvious, but thanks for pointing it out anyway.
Originally by: Gemberslaafje You pay for your account, you train,
You don't pay for your account, you don't train.
That's not what CCP used to advertise though. And to say that those that used this feature were abusing game mechanics is just a lie.
Originally by: Gemberslaafje What the hell is so wrong with that you guys need 188 pages to complain about a purely natural thing?
Hmmm, maybe we don't like being lied to and treated like idiots. Maybe we are a little dismayed that there has been no response from CCP. Maybe some of us like the game and want to see some bad decisions reversed before it's too late. You don't have to agree with us, but that does not invalidate our arguments.
Originally by: Gemberslaafje Please, go play world of warcraft or something.
OK. I will in less than 60 days unless something changes. Thanks for the advice. BTW, here are a few posts from the very first page that sums up "some" of the arguments nicely:
1 2 3 4 5
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Kerfira
|
Posted - 2008.11.25 16:44:00 -
[5663]
I wonder why all the 1000's of players that emoragequit over this, the speed nerf and the missile nerf are still logging in.... http://www.eve-offline.net/?server=tranquility 41k players online this last day...
Originally by: CCP Wrangler EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
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Squirrrel
Gallente Squirrrel Industries
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Posted - 2008.11.25 17:00:00 -
[5664]
Originally by: Kerfira I wonder why all the 1000's of players that emoragequit over this, the speed nerf and the missile nerf are still logging in.... http://www.eve-offline.net/?server=tranquility 41k players online this last day...
Many subs are still active; like mine. I still login since my accounts are still running even though they are cancelled.
I won't tell you why I still login; I will tell you it's not to play the game though.
And for the last time, customers that quit when a service provider flat out lies to them is not an emoragequit.
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Squirrrel
Gallente Squirrrel Industries
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Posted - 2008.11.25 17:02:00 -
[5665]
Originally by: Gemberslaafje I don't get it.
You pay for your account, you train,
You don't pay for your account, you don't train.
What the hell is so wrong with that you guys need 188 pages to complain about a purely natural thing?
Please, go play world of warcraft or something.
Partly because 188 pages aren't enough to get the message over to ignorants like you I'd wager. Read some more of the 188 pages and get a clue.
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fried eggs
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.11.25 17:10:00 -
[5666]
Originally by: Kerfira I wonder why all the 1000's of players that emoragequit over this, the speed nerf and the missile nerf are still logging in.... http://www.eve-offline.net/?server=tranquility 41k players online this last day...
And you know that all of the people that have stated their intention to leave the game have not done so...how? You do know that you don't loose the right to login when you cancel an account, right? Or could it be that you are just attempting to "troll"?
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Squirrrel
Gallente Squirrrel Industries
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Posted - 2008.11.25 17:14:00 -
[5667]
Edited by: Squirrrel on 25/11/2008 17:14:25
Originally by: fried eggs
Originally by: Kerfira I wonder why all the 1000's of players that emoragequit over this, the speed nerf and the missile nerf are still logging in.... http://www.eve-offline.net/?server=tranquility 41k players online this last day...
And you know that all of the people that have stated their intention to leave the game have not done so...how? You do know that you don't loose the right to login when you cancel an account, right? Or could it be that you are just attempting to "troll"?
If you don't pay, you shouldn't be able to train. If you cancel, you shouldn't be able to train or login and play.
Thems the rules. Having days left on your account after cancelling... thats a feature. For now...
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fried eggs
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.11.25 17:21:00 -
[5668]
Edited by: fried eggs on 25/11/2008 17:23:28
Originally by: Squirrrel
Having days left on your account after cancelling... thats a feature. For now...
A feature or a "bug"? All those bums taking advantage of this bug should get jobs and adapt or die and give me their stuff and quit whining and...etc.
Edit to add: and fit target painters and use light drones.
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Apertotes
Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2008.11.25 17:33:00 -
[5669]
Originally by: Squirrrel
Having days left on your account after cancelling... thats a feature. For now...
yep, just like alt characters. it was an oversight on the process, and probably next year they'll fix the bug ramdomly erasing 2 characters on every account. do not worry though, they'll warn us at least 2 days before with a short note on the news section on the main page, and then they'll release 10 or 12 new messages that will render the note invissible.
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Squirrrel
Gallente Squirrrel Industries
|
Posted - 2008.11.25 18:00:00 -
[5670]
Edited by: Squirrrel on 25/11/2008 22:22:12
Originally by: Apertotes
Originally by: Squirrrel
Having days left on your account after cancelling... thats a feature. For now...
yep, just like alt characters. it was an oversight on the process, and probably next year they'll fix the bug ramdomly erasing 2 characters on every account. do not worry though, they'll warn us at least 2 days before with a short note on the news section on the main page, and then they'll release 10 or 12 new messages that will render the note invissible.
Yeah. Mind you, they will probably tell you of a nice new feature, that for a one-off charge of only $20, you can keep each slot on your account. Then in a few months, 3 slots will be a confirmed bug, however you can pay a one-off fee of only $20 per slot to transfer each to new 'power of the mighty $ accounts' before they delete them.
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Kerfira
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Posted - 2008.11.26 00:34:00 -
[5671]
Originally by: fried eggs
Originally by: Kerfira I wonder why all the 1000's of players that emoragequit over this, the speed nerf and the missile nerf are still logging in.... http://www.eve-offline.net/?server=tranquility 41k players online this last day...
And you know that all of the people that have stated their intention to leave the game have not done so...how? You do know that you don't loose the right to login when you cancel an account, right? Or could it be that you are just attempting to "troll"?
Nope... Just pointing out that numbers doesn't match.... Some guy some pages back (cba to find it) was claiming that player numbers were dropping sharply because of this. I'm merely proving with numbers that they aren't...
Enjoy gnawing your liver
Originally by: CCP Wrangler EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
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8Z 6
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Posted - 2008.11.26 01:28:00 -
[5672]
I didnt read this entire 8-thousand page thread but at some point ill skim through it probably.
To CCCP: I am currently, and temporarily, running one account. Which will be closed shortly as well. (no, you cant have my stuff.) Ive been playing with 5 constantly active accounts and a total of about 14 which I used for various purposes, such as dedicated super capital pilots, dedicated industrialist, dedicated miner, etc etc. Due to the exorbitant cost of running so many accounts I sometimes set one for long-term training and let it expire. This practice costs nothing to CCCP...the account is not being used, doesnt take bandwidth or cause server load, and it encourages the player to eventually reactivate the subscription. This has been a FEATURE since 2003 and for it to now be 'fixed' as per the explanation of the CCCP rep, it is nothing short of a crock of rectal excrement. Whomever came up with this plan of monumental mental ******ation failed to take into account the motivation of returning to a subscription that has been dormant for any number of reasons, such as vacation, lack of RL time to play, lack of funding, etc., and finding a skill trained.
If CCCP would like to verity this is not emoragequiting check the account info on this account and cross check it with other accounts with the same zip code, credit card info, address, name, etc. Also, most of my accounts have a character with the same name, derivatives of this accounts main character. (Yes, this is an alt.) I closed all my accounts in october upon the announcement of this abortion of an idea and only opened this one back up temporarily. Good job CCCP on removing yet another feature encouraging membership and customer loyaly. Ive seen a lot of long-term players quitting and selling their accounts for various reasons, this being one of them. Numbers of players logged on at one time may be high but my prediction is this wont last long. The current 'noob' subscribers will eventually see how appreciative CCCP isnt toward their customers and will follow suit.
From those of us about to quit...we salute you.
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8Z 6
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Posted - 2008.11.26 01:37:00 -
[5673]
Originally by: Kerfira Y'all still crying?
The free lunch offer was cancelled... Deal with it!
We'll see who is crying in the end. With the current economic situation and minimizing of unnecessary expenses, game subscriptions are going to be near the top of the list of fat to be trimmed from household budgets. Going inactive and coming back to an account with a long-term skill trained is a major motivational factor in reactivating an account.
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Tasty Bit
Gallente UNITED STAR SYNDICATE
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Posted - 2008.11.26 04:25:00 -
[5674]
Originally by: 8Z 6 I didnt read this entire 8-thousand page thread but at some point ill skim through it probably.
To CCCP: I am currently, and temporarily, running one account. Which will be closed shortly as well. (no, you cant have my stuff.) Ive been playing with 5 constantly active accounts and a total of about 14 which I used for various purposes, such as dedicated super capital pilots, dedicated industrialist, dedicated miner, etc etc. Due to the exorbitant cost of running so many accounts I sometimes set one for long-term training and let it expire. This practice costs nothing to CCCP...the account is not being used, doesnt take bandwidth or cause server load, and it encourages the player to eventually reactivate the subscription. This has been a FEATURE since 2003 and for it to now be 'fixed' as per the explanation of the CCCP rep, it is nothing short of a crock of rectal excrement. Whomever came up with this plan of monumental mental ******ation failed to take into account the motivation of returning to a subscription that has been dormant for any number of reasons, such as vacation, lack of RL time to play, lack of funding, etc., and finding a skill trained.
If CCCP would like to verity this is not emoragequiting check the account info on this account and cross check it with other accounts with the same zip code, credit card info, address, name, etc. Also, most of my accounts have a character with the same name, derivatives of this accounts main character. (Yes, this is an alt.) I closed all my accounts in october upon the announcement of this abortion of an idea and only opened this one back up temporarily. Good job CCCP on removing yet another feature encouraging membership and customer loyaly. Ive seen a lot of long-term players quitting and selling their accounts for various reasons, this being one of them. Numbers of players logged on at one time may be high but my prediction is this wont last long. The current 'noob' subscribers will eventually see how appreciative CCCP isnt toward their customers and will follow suit.
From those of us about to quit...we salute you.
But but but it makes them more money if everyone's forced to constantly pay for their accounts.
Oh wait, scratch that....
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Arakn1s
Amarr Aurora Cartel AAA Citizens
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Posted - 2008.11.26 09:23:00 -
[5675]
Originally by: Kerfira
Nope... Just pointing out.....
Dont confuse things, of course you will not see a drop in the daily number of players logged in. How many subscribers does EVE have? 250k? 300k? If they were all online everyday, you would be able to calculate how many ppl quit, cause the drop would show, But these 250k active subs are more like alt accs of the 41k that play daily. I dont think many ppl cancelled their main accs but did cancel the alt accs (i cancelled 3 and will cancell another 2 until the end of the year and keep only my 2 main accs active).
So the right question would be how many active subs were in the beggining of 2008 or before summer(before the 30&90 day GTC removal), and how many active subs there are now. This would definetly show how the player base reacted to CCP's desicions on GTC removal and Ghost Train feature removal.
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Establisher
Caldari Delacroix Shipyards Novus Aevum
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Posted - 2008.11.26 12:38:00 -
[5676]
CCP probably intend leaving this topic open in the hope that all the players who reply to it will eventually die of old age and then they wont have to post a response. Actually explaining why they think we would be stupid enough not to notice they lied in the first place.
They must think were really stupid and wouldn't notice they flat out lied to us. Probably went down like this:
Person 1> To increase income we could make 60 day gtc's and also disable ghost trainning
Person 2> Do you not think players will mind? I mean ghost trainning was marketed as a feature.
Person 1> Well we will just call it a "bug" and then if anyone says anything we can just ignore them till they go away i mean how many people will actually care?
Person 2> Yeah well the more money for us the better lets do it!
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Paul Morphy
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Posted - 2008.11.26 13:03:00 -
[5677]
Edited by: Paul Morphy on 26/11/2008 13:03:56
Originally by: Establisher CCP probably intend leaving this topic open in the hope that all the players who reply to it will eventually die of old age and then they wont have to post a response.
Maybe the **** side will come out of them soon, and they'll lock it. That's my prediction.
EDIT- omfg, the word "na-zi" is censored. That in itself is na-zi behaviour. Apt, I suppose. :/
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fried eggs
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.11.26 14:28:00 -
[5678]
Originally by: Kerfira Nope... Just pointing out that numbers doesn't match.... Some guy some pages back (cba to find it) was claiming that player numbers were dropping sharply because of this. I'm merely proving with numbers that they aren't...
Enjoy gnawing your liver
No you weren't. You were implying that the people that said they were going to quit, did not. Can you back that statement up or not? I donÆt care to argue opposing views, but if you are going to make a boneheaded claim like you did, at least have the ænads to defend it.
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Kerfira
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Posted - 2008.11.26 18:28:00 -
[5679]
Originally by: fried eggs
Originally by: Kerfira Nope... Just pointing out that numbers doesn't match.... Some guy some pages back (cba to find it) was claiming that player numbers were dropping sharply because of this. I'm merely proving with numbers that they aren't...
Enjoy gnawing your liver
No you weren't. You were implying that the people that said they were going to quit, did not. Can you back that statement up or not? I donÆt care to argue opposing views, but if you are going to make a boneheaded claim like you did, at least have the ænads to defend it.
Numbers speak for themselves
It's been almost a month and a half since the removal of your free lunch. IF the 1000's of players had quit as you've all said they'd do, it would be visible. It isn't!
Please continue fighting them windmills. It's giving me a good laugh every morning seeing you being so upset over a trivial and logical change
Originally by: CCP Wrangler EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
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Squirrrel
Gallente Squirrrel Industries
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Posted - 2008.11.26 20:16:00 -
[5680]
Originally by: Kerfira
Numbers speak for themselves
It's been almost a month and a half since the removal of your free lunch. IF the 1000's of players had quit as you've all said they'd do, it would be visible. It isn't!
Please continue fighting them windmills. It's giving me a good laugh every morning seeing you being so upset over a trivial and logical change
It's giving me a good laugh that you're still being so ignorant, just as I believe you're starting to get a clue as to the real reason for the complaints, and not that it's just a "supposedly" trivial and logical change.
Do all EvE users have 30 day accounts then according to you?
Numbers don't speak for themselves anyway. You can't prove how many people have come back to the game and resubbed v those that have apparently quit.
Please generate a valid argument as you're just embarrassing yourself.
Oh and - Look I'm cool too.
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8Z 6
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Posted - 2008.11.26 20:28:00 -
[5681]
Originally by: Kerfira
Originally by: fried eggs
Originally by: Kerfira Nope... Just pointing out that numbers doesn't match.... Some guy some pages back (cba to find it) was claiming that player numbers were dropping sharply because of this. I'm merely proving with numbers that they aren't...
Enjoy gnawing your liver
No you weren't. You were implying that the people that said they were going to quit, did not. Can you back that statement up or not? I donÆt care to argue opposing views, but if you are going to make a boneheaded claim like you did, at least have the ænads to defend it.
Numbers speak for themselves
It's been almost a month and a half since the removal of your free lunch. IF the 1000's of players had quit as you've all said they'd do, it would be visible. It isn't!
Please continue fighting them windmills. It's giving me a good laugh every morning seeing you being so upset over a trivial and logical change
Considering the massive advertising campaign CCCP has been having lately and judging by the numbers of short-time-in-game players ive seen, your argument is flawed. The numbers may be high but quantity does not equal quality since they may be curious players who dont have the loyalty and interest in making this a long term investment with multiple accounts.
Ive gone through a few dozen pages of this thread and havent see a single dev/GM post. Im curious what the actual thought are from this bunch. Like Ive said...there are several account subscriptions they have lost from myself due to this abortion of an idea and Im sure there are quite a few others judging by how long this thread is.
Regardless of the reasoning of removing the ghost training feature, for a thread to be this long and this despised by the player base I should say it amazes me that CCCP hasnt made some sort of reply to this thread. It doesnt tho. Since the batch of devs came aboard, headed by zoozoopark or whatever his name is, this game has been going down hill at a high rate of speed in a handbasket.
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Kerfira
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Posted - 2008.11.26 22:55:00 -
[5682]
Originally by: Squirrrel Do all EvE users have 30 day accounts then according to you?
Some do.... The ones who would quit have by now... Most probably have 3 month sub's... Half of those who'd quit have by now... Not too many use 6/12 month subs, and most who (ab)used ghost training most likely didn't.
All in all, if your arguments about widespread emoragequitting had been true, we'd see it in the numbers. We don't
Please keep going. I do understand your deep-seated need to feel wronged. It probably helps you compensate for something, so no problem there....
Keep amusing me..... It's funny to read people complaining so much that the free lunch was cancelled
Originally by: CCP Wrangler EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
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Kerfira
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Posted - 2008.11.26 23:09:00 -
[5683]
Originally by: 8Z 6 Considering the massive advertising campaign CCCP has been having lately and judging by the numbers of short-time-in-game players ive seen, your argument is flawed. The numbers may be high but quantity does not equal quality since they may be curious players who dont have the loyalty and interest in making this a long term investment with multiple accounts.
You do know that on average an EVE player stays in the game for only 7 months, right? Thus there'll ALWAYS be a huge number of new players.
A lot stay longer of.c., but those are not typically the emoragequit type. We simply stay because this is the greatest space MMO there is.
So why should CCP reply? They've made their (imo sound) business decision, and is sticking with it. A few 10's of people quitting over it short term is insignificant. Most people who'd quit would have done so soon anyway, simple because nobody keeps paying for a game to ghost train. We pay to play! The large majority of people will simply continue as they were, except now they'll keep their accounts active, providing income to CCP for service rendered.
Sorry if it shatters your world view, but quite frankly, the ppl whining in here don't matter as much as you think you do....
Originally by: CCP Wrangler EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
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Von Domiki
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Posted - 2008.11.26 23:43:00 -
[5684]
Originally by: Kerfira Most people who'd quit would have done so soon anyway, simple because nobody keeps paying for a game to ghost train. We pay to play!
May be not quite right. I paid for two months just before that patch were deployed and well i didn't know about it. So i'm still going to play for sometime and then consider if i'll continue playing. You should pay to play, right, but CCP wants you to pay even if you can't play because of RL issues, but want to keep up with others. Take in consideration that while in majority of MMORPGS you can pay and train skills intensely in that time, in EVE you can only use that time to make isks, standings, etc. Skills won't train faster.
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dragonslance
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Posted - 2008.11.27 01:26:00 -
[5685]
Edited by: dragonslance on 27/11/2008 01:27:37
Originally by: Kerfira ...and most who (ab)used ghost training
One simple, "yes or no" question for you: Do you agree that CCP had un-subbed training in the player guide?
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Nannu Who
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Posted - 2008.11.27 02:12:00 -
[5686]
Originally by: Kerfira
Originally by: Squirrrel
All in all, if your arguments about widespread emoragequitting had been true, we'd see it in the numbers. We don't
There are people who have posted here, with several accounts, who like to pay for their accounts in advance. These people have already said they are waiting for their accounts to run dry as they feel upset and ashamed about how CCP have gone about this whole thing. Some of these players used training during gap breaks, others said they never used it.
Both users and non-users of this ex-feature are upset with CCP, the way the move came about, and the time it was implemented; right at the end of a Power of Two offer.
Such players would have left eve long ago, had they been given advance warning of CCP plans. They may have been more cautious with their monthly subs. You save cash paying for the longer stints of game time, but also you can't vote with your feet when something such as this leaves such a bitter taste in your mouth.
We will also have players coming back from their break having paid for X amount of days upon reactivation of their account. Yes... soon they realise 'wtf, my skill has stopped training?!?' They may file a petition. You see this is something that would seem like a bug to them. Such a thing has been reported and petitioned before (search the forums).
SP was lost due to an inactive account not finishing said trained skill, it was petitioned and... ...lost SP was refunded ...to a player ...who was not paying for CCP services (at the time said skill was training).
But he pays to come back right? with the understanding that his skill should in fact be finished. So how pee-pee'd off would anyone be given this situation?
...and so add to the que, another person waiting for their account to run dry. Possibly feeling like a mug in the meantime.
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8Z 6
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Posted - 2008.11.27 06:27:00 -
[5687]
Originally by: Kerfira
Originally by: 8Z 6 Considering the massive advertising campaign CCCP has been having lately and judging by the numbers of short-time-in-game players ive seen, your argument is flawed. The numbers may be high but quantity does not equal quality since they may be curious players who dont have the loyalty and interest in making this a long term investment with multiple accounts.
You do know that on average an EVE player stays in the game for only 7 months, right? Thus there'll ALWAYS be a huge number of new players.
A lot stay longer of.c., but those are not typically the emoragequit type. We simply stay because this is the greatest space MMO there is.
So why should CCP reply? They've made their (imo sound) business decision, and is sticking with it. A few 10's of people quitting over it short term is insignificant. Most people who'd quit would have done so soon anyway, simple because nobody keeps paying for a game to ghost train. We pay to play! The large majority of people will simply continue as they were, except now they'll keep their accounts active, providing income to CCP for service rendered.
Sorry if it shatters your world view, but quite frankly, the ppl whining in here don't matter as much as you think you do....
Your arguments have completely lost cohesion and now youre just spewing barely relevant nonsense about irrelevant points. You are completely missing any point mentioned and going off on a tangent totally unrelated. You have no idea how many people have quit or how much income has been lost due to this poorly thought out change to the game. Unless you do since your posts do contain a degree of the inept arrogance of the cccp devs.
One benefit to cccp of ghost training was an incentive to keep multiple accounts running intermittently. Now instead of one person with multiple accounts which can be ghost trained the incentive to have multiple accounts is gone. Im a director in a fairly decently sized corporation and have received at least a dozen mails from players saying their non-main alts are no longer going to be used and should be removed from the corp due to this removal of ghost training. This is my experience in one corp...how many others are having the same experience. Now instead of cccp getting a subscription fee every few months, since that is the max of any skill, they will get none at all.
Judging by your posts your business skill is as inept as your ability to argue a point and analyze a situation. You have such a hard-on for this being the 'greatest space MMO' then stop posting in a thread that youve already stated affects you none at all and go play the game and stop bothering the grownups.
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Squirrrel
Gallente Squirrrel Industries
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Posted - 2008.11.27 08:45:00 -
[5688]
Originally by: Kerfira Keep amusing me..... It's funny to read people complaining so much that the free lunch was cancelled
You say this so much, you can only be trolling really.
I never used unsubbed training myself... what else you got?
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Rosalina Sarinna
Aliastra
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Posted - 2008.11.27 12:21:00 -
[5689]
I noticed that dual-training was mentioned as a possible future implementation in the Dev Blog section, this would be quite beneficial to people who used to 'ghost train' due to boredom - as they get short-term skills done at the same time as that really long 40+ day skill.
In the end, this probably won't affect single account holders much, assuming they are in safe space and can occupy themselves while that level 5 rank 16 skill is cooking...
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JadeO
Caldari W.A.S.P Sylph Alliance
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Posted - 2008.11.27 13:04:00 -
[5690]
If you disabled ghost training for the reasons stated on that dev blog (that actually seem to be pretty stupid imo, but oh well) then how about you start DISCOUNTING THE DOWNTIME from our subscriptions?
For example, right now we're having a downtime for 4h15m, how about you add THAT amount of time to all active subscriptions? ______________
Looking for a good signature, logo, website layout? EVEMail me! |
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Squirrrel
Gallente Squirrrel Industries
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Posted - 2008.11.27 16:07:00 -
[5691]
Originally by: 8Z 6
Originally by: Kerfira You do know that on average an EVE player stays in the game for only 7 months, right? Thus there'll ALWAYS be a huge number of new players.
A lot stay longer of.c., but those are not typically the emoragequit type. We simply stay because this is the greatest space MMO there is.
So why should CCP reply? They've made their (imo sound) business decision, and is sticking with it. A few 10's of people quitting over it short term is insignificant. Most people who'd quit would have done so soon anyway, simple because nobody keeps paying for a game to ghost train. We pay to play! The large majority of people will simply continue as they were, except now they'll keep their accounts active, providing income to CCP for service rendered.
Sorry if it shatters your world view, but quite frankly, the ppl whining in here don't matter as much as you think you do....
Your arguments have completely lost cohesion and now youre just spewing barely relevant nonsense about irrelevant points. You are completely missing any point mentioned and going off on a tangent totally unrelated. You have no idea how many people have quit or how much income has been lost due to this poorly thought out change to the game. Unless you do since your posts do contain a degree of the inept arrogance of the cccp devs. ... Judging by your posts your business skill is as inept as your ability to argue a point and analyze a situation. You have such a hard-on for this being the 'greatest space MMO' then stop posting in a thread that youve already stated affects you none at all and go play the game and stop bothering the grownups.
You're so right. In fact, I'm starting to feel ashamed for laughing at Kerfira, he's obviously not all there in the head.
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Squirrrel
Gallente Squirrrel Industries
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Posted - 2008.11.27 16:10:00 -
[5692]
Originally by: Kerfira
You do know that on average an EVE player stays in the game for only 7 months, right? Thus there'll ALWAYS be a huge number of new players./ Quote:
Provide proof of both please.
The former may well be a lot easier, but there "ALWAYS be(ing) a huge number of new players?"
How long is always, in your mind?
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Day Prichard
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Posted - 2008.11.27 16:19:00 -
[5693]
Over 5600+ responses and I have yet to see a response on why CCP is treating its customer base like idiots.
I never used the feature which is now called a "bug". I have had 5 accounts with EVE-ONLINE for more than a year now. I can tell you that IÆve closed 2 accounts permanently and will be closing the remaining accounts in the near future as subscriptions run out.
Not because of the "bug", but because CCP refuses to actively respond to this thread. I don't feel CCP is treating its customer base with the respect it deserves including me and my hard earned RL money.
TBQH - I've never played another MMO in my life and doubt I will pick up another because I'm a space freak. I've always loved anything pertaining to space. The other MMOs I've found deal with sorcery, witchcraft and the likes. Those have never appealed to me and since this is the only space oriented game I appeal to leaves only one option... pick up my metal detector and return to the real world.
We ALL know that the "Ghost training" was advertised as a feature, yet for reasons beyond my comprehension and many others, CCP refuses to admit the real reason for doing away with the "bug". CCP just wants to use the lame excuse that it was a 5 year old bug.
CCP, when you finally respond to this thread with respect and dignity telling us the real reason for debugging something that was advertised as a feature... drop me an email and I'll think about rejoining you in space.
I and 5600+++ players already know the truth. We know times are hard, they are hard for everyone in this world and we understand the need for making more RL money, but to treat your customer base like a group of idiots by saying an ôADVERTISEDö feature 5 years old was an unintentional bug only to be called on it, then not respond........ Well..... nuff said, if you haven't responded by now you probably never will.
Just tell us CCP, I mean daymn... believe it or not your customer base can handle the truth and would respect you more. Not to mention I for one would really like to keep playing, however my honor will not allow me to continue paying the salary of people who donÆt respect me as a customer.
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Johho Bulon
Gallente Freelancer Union Unaffiliated
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Posted - 2008.11.27 17:28:00 -
[5694]
Oddly enough, I was thinking of reactivating one of my 3 inactive accounts so that I could set up a little training, and maybe dip my toe in again, when I noticed this on the forum. This change and the 60 day GTC stupidity, amongst many means that I won't do so now.
I think I'll wait and see if any coherent response arrives to this topic first, which judging by the size of this topic, and the lack of a reply, it'll probably be...oh about 5 minutes after hell freezes over.
Sad, but never mind, maybe I'll come back in a few months maybe not, I can always look back with nostalgia at how much fun I did once have, when I am reading a 'where did they go' article in a magazine a few years from today, like I did the other week looking at Braben and Bell with Elite.
And yes I'll now gb2wow, pwntbicccp etc or whatever the correct lolcat phrases are currently. ---------------
Once we have a war there is only one thing to do. It must be won. For defeat brings worse things than any that can ever happen in war. -- Ernest Hemingway |
Soma Khan
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Posted - 2008.11.27 17:31:00 -
[5695]
Originally by: Day Prichard Edited by: Day Prichard on 27/11/2008 16:57:34 Over 5600+ responses and I have yet to see a response on why CCP is treating its customer base like idiots.
That certainly is an impressive number of alts. Somehow the voting thread in the Assembly Hall has only 154 votes against fixing the ghost training bug. That's pretty insignificant. Perhaps those of you who can't stop spewing leecher angst here are justified at feeling like idiots? 'Cause the "customer base" is too busy enjoying CCP's product to care. ___
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Squirrrel
Gallente Squirrrel Industries
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Posted - 2008.11.27 17:50:00 -
[5696]
Originally by: Soma Khan
Originally by: Day Prichard Edited by: Day Prichard on 27/11/2008 16:57:34 Over 5600+ responses and I have yet to see a response on why CCP is treating its customer base like idiots.
That certainly is an impressive number of alts. Somehow the voting thread in the Assembly Hall has only 154 votes against fixing the ghost training bug. That's pretty insignificant. Perhaps those of you who can't stop spewing leecher angst here are justified at feeling like idiots? 'Cause the "customer base" is too busy enjoying CCP's product to care.
I didn't vote on fixing the training feature/bug. I don't really care for whether it's in the game or not personally. Is there a thread for general comments on HOW and WHY the change was handled in addition to those that want it returned rather than just getting it back? Oh yes, of course, my mistake - it's this thread.
I actually can't quite believe you're back here to be honest - you've just made yourself look like prat yet again. "That certainly is an impressive number of alts!" - Chortle. You're so witty.
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Soma Khan
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Posted - 2008.11.27 17:58:00 -
[5697]
Edited by: Soma Khan on 27/11/2008 18:02:35 So all this is just a big wine for an apology that isn't coming? What does this tell about a person who can't stop ,for weeks, asking for an apology for something, even if, for the sake of this argument, an apology is required?
___
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Spirolore Kane
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Posted - 2008.11.27 18:00:00 -
[5698]
Edited by: Spirolore Kane on 27/11/2008 18:00:10
Originally by: Soma Khan
I wasn't talking to you. Same way I don't talk to something that happened to have stuck to the bottom of my shoe.
Looking at your previous in this thread it seems you talk enough of whats stuck there anyway.
your arguments are terrible and youre even a poor troll.
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Soma Khan
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Posted - 2008.11.27 18:06:00 -
[5699]
Originally by: Spirolore Kane Edited by: Spirolore Kane on 27/11/2008 18:00:10
Originally by: Soma Khan
I wasn't talking to you. Same way I don't talk to something that happened to have stuck to the bottom of my shoe.
Looking at your previous in this thread it seems you talk enough of whats stuck there anyway.
Well, I deleted this statement for this very reason. I do talk to the alts in this thread, which pretty much invalidates my assertion.
No biggie.
As for my arguments, I have not seen anything that even remotely answers the questions that I posed. All I see is denial and posturing. ___
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Squirrrel
Gallente Squirrrel Industries
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Posted - 2008.11.27 18:42:00 -
[5700]
Originally by: Soma Khan As for my arguments, I have not seen anything that even remotely answers the questions that I posed. All I see is denial and posturing.
What questions were those? All I've seen it baiting.
By all means repost them. If they are valid questions I'm sure someone will respond to them.
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Soma Khan
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Posted - 2008.11.27 18:50:00 -
[5701]
Originally by: Squirrrel
Originally by: Soma Khan As for my arguments, I have not seen anything that even remotely answers the questions that I posed. All I see is denial and posturing.
What questions were those? All I've seen it baiting.
By all means repost them. If they are valid questions I'm sure someone will respond to them.
How about this one posted just a couple of posts ago: What does this tell about a person who can't stop ,for weeks, asking for an apology for something, even if, for the sake of this argument, an apology is required?
___
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Squirrrel
Gallente Squirrrel Industries
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Posted - 2008.11.27 19:36:00 -
[5702]
Originally by: Soma Khan
How about this one posted just a couple of posts ago: What does this tell about a person who can't stop ,for weeks, asking for an apology for something, even if, for the sake of this argument, an apology is required?
I'm not really sure if the question makes sense; maybe I'm missing something.
You're asking what is says about a person who continues to ask for an apology that they never receive, even if it were true that an apology is actually required?
If that's what your asking then I guess it can tell you many different things; all amount to those people being hacked off with having paid for a sevice and being lied to or mislead in some fashion.
Here's a question for you then:
What does it tell you about a company who:
1) Doesn't notice a bug for 5 years in either their own game or in their official documentation. 2) Makes mention positively of the "bug" as a feature on their own forums by their own staff for mulitple years, even ammending patch notes to reflect it's still enabled. 3) Changes the so-called bug on a server they open in China, but choose not to change it on the server where it is now deemed a bug they missed due to oversights. 4) Slowly migrates the offical reasoning behind the change from it being all about database load, to a little bit about database load and the fairness of training whilst unsubbed; to a business decision as they are a company above all else and it's only right their revenues increase. 5) Doesn't seem to have the bottle to either come out and say it as it is "It's our game, we can change it however we see fit, we've decided to remove unsubbed training, we think it's affecting our bottom line. 6) Communicates with it's player base when they have genuine concerns, even if they are some that don't <Shock horror> agree with the sentiments of said people.
I don't really care that you're one of the people who is happily still paying and playing. Good for you. Really. That said, people on your side of the fence seem to only cling on to the fact that CCP are a business and it's a great business decision etc etc etc. You're right about one thing: They are a business. A business that has customers.
What you're totally missing, is the right of those who have paid, are still effectively paying (even if cancelled) CCP and take issue with what they perceive as being lied to.
We still want CCP to comment on those issues in this thread; not only the removing of the change, but the way it was handled. That is our right, and I for one am pleased that others are as persistent as myself. You donÆt get far in this life by giving up; itÆs only a lost cause to a few people in this thread.
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AltSpying 101
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Posted - 2008.11.28 01:18:00 -
[5703]
Originally by: Rethie
Keep with the storyline CCP, our characters are in a universe based on real time, so give back the real time training, or counteract with an ability to multiply training time by using a booster or something, so when unsubbed and returning to the game we can grind and catch up to our rate of learning lost.
My vote is there, and I am not a unsubbed user. time running out on my sub!!
Yes, yes, YES!
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fried eggs
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.11.28 01:57:00 -
[5704]
Originally by: Soma Khan
So all this is just a big wine for an apology that isn't coming?
Your opinion?
Originally by: Soma Khan What does this tell about a person who can't stop ,for weeks, asking for an apology for something, even if, for the sake of this argument, an apology is required?
It tells me that we are paying customers that are persistent. What does it tell you?
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8Z 6
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Posted - 2008.11.28 05:45:00 -
[5705]
Key point: customers. Ultimately cccp is a business and the players are its clients and source of existence. When there is this much of an outpouring of dissatisfaction with no reply or inclination to reverse a poorly thought out decision it tells us how cccp really views its customers. All things considered, this isnt much of a surprise.
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Kerfira
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Posted - 2008.11.28 08:49:00 -
[5706]
Edited by: Kerfira on 28/11/2008 08:49:59
Originally by: 8Z 6 One benefit to cccp of ghost training was an incentive to keep multiple accounts running intermittently. Now instead of one person with multiple accounts which can be ghost trained the incentive to have multiple accounts is gone.
Think before posting.... The incentive is still there (unless you were character farming)! The incentive to have multiple accounts is that you can do different things, not that you could ghost train. The majority of people (no matter what they whine about) will keep their accounts active and training if they can afford it (and most people CAN afford it). That's simply the addictive nature of EVE. You're claiming that people kept their second accounts so they could train freely... Get a grip. That's the most stupid argument in a long time....
Originally by: 8Z 6 Judging by your posts your business skill is as inept as your ability to argue a point and analyze a situation. You have such a hard-on for this being the 'greatest space MMO' then stop posting in a thread that youve already stated affects you none at all and go play the game and stop bothering the grownups.
My business skills seem much better than yours
I at least understand that a company needs paying customers to survive, and that giving stuff away freely on a regular basis is not good business practice.
Secondly, if my arguments are bothering you so much that I need to 'stop posting', then that is a very clear indication that I'm raising issues you'd rather not consider, most likely because they completely shatter your illusion of righteous rage.
Originally by: Squirrel You're so right. In fact, I'm starting to feel ashamed for laughing at Kerfira, he's obviously not all there in the head.
Ahhh, the personal attack... A classic forum mistake
You do know that this is the ultimate sign on forums that your opponent is right? The personal attacks only start when you can't counter the arguments of the other person! If you had good arguments, you'd go with those, but of.c. you don't
There seem to be about 20 people or so still caring about this issue, with most others having either quit (not many judging by recent player numbers), or accepted that CCP made a sound business decision.
However, since you're obviously enjoying wallowing in that pool of righteous rage, please continue. It doesn't bother me one bit, and I still get a laugh out of you every morning
Sweet dreams!
Originally by: CCP Wrangler EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
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Kerfira
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Posted - 2008.11.28 08:57:00 -
[5707]
Originally by: 8Z 6 Key point: customers. Ultimately cccp is a business and the players are its clients and source of existence. When there is this much of an outpouring of dissatisfaction with no reply or inclination to reverse a poorly thought out decision it tells us how cccp really views its customers. All things considered, this isnt much of a surprise.
If you knew anything about business at all, you'd know that the wise move is to stay out of the argument.
A certain part of any business segment (for gamers this is probably quite a large part) will never be able to see beyond their own nose, and the wise way to handle them is not to argue.
And by the way, this was not a 'poorly thought out' decision. It was a sound business decision that may involve some pain in the short run, but in the long term is totally justified.
Originally by: CCP Wrangler EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
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Luke Diewalker
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Posted - 2008.11.28 10:59:00 -
[5708]
the "SURGE" in inactive accounts is because you raised your price to $35 for 2 months and took away the month by month option. if you think people are ghosttraining the skills and making their accounts inactive just for that, your stupid. even if they were, who cares????????
IT DOESNT EVEN MATTER BECAUSE THEY HAVE TO BECOME A PAYING CUSTOMER AGAIN TO USE THEIR CHARACTER! i mean, really, how much skilling can be done, since you can only skill up 1 item at a time.
why dont you let us skill 5 skills at once or let the skills train faster, instead of 300 days for the good stuff. get real.
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Squirrrel
Gallente Squirrrel Industries
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Posted - 2008.11.28 17:40:00 -
[5709]
Originally by: Kerfira
Originally by: Squirrel You're so right. In fact, I'm starting to feel ashamed for laughing at Kerfira, he's obviously not all there in the head.
Ahhh, the personal attack... A classic forum mistake
You do know that this is the ultimate sign on forums that your opponent is right? The personal attacks only start when you can't counter the arguments of the other person! If you had good arguments, you'd go with those, but of.c. you don't
I've countered your (terrible and at times barely coherent) arguments, as have others and you still harp on about free lunches and the like when that's only a small part of the bad feeling toward ccp in this thread.
You're sadly missing out a vital aspect to what you perceive as a personal attack... I was actually serious. Pulling that little card out your pocket to say "Ha! You lost!" doesn't really work for me, nor I bet for most others. Just cos your mama said you were special doesn't make it so to the rest of the world.
Nice try though.
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Squirrrel
Gallente Squirrrel Industries
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Posted - 2008.11.28 17:59:00 -
[5710]
Originally by: Kerfira
If you knew anything about business at all, you'd know that the wise move is to stay out of the argument.
Did the business school you went to teach you to lie to your customers too and then not bother to address the concerns once they become apparent?
If you knew anything about business you'll know that customer perception is paramount, and if you get caught in a lie, you either apologise publicly or you try to spin it.
They got things backwards. They tried to spin first (Which I can well understand) and then once they got caught spinning they just fell silent. The natural business thing to do in this instance would have been to apologise, even if they still planned to keep the change.
I think they've let it go on so long now though, that an apology would look ridiculous, however there is not a limitless amount of MMO players present and future, and although some may well not quit this time, the next thing on top of this may well swing the balance for them to leave.
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Galea Wildfang
Inebriated Consortium Enterprises Inc.
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Posted - 2008.11.29 07:23:00 -
[5711]
Edited by: Galea Wildfang on 29/11/2008 07:23:58
Originally by: Kerfira
There seem to be about 20 people or so still caring about this issue, with most others having either quit (not many judging by recent player numbers), or accepted that CCP made a sound business decision.
I don't know it exactly, but my guess is, you're wrong. I for myself follow this thread and check it like every other day to see, if something's happening.
The last (RL-) friend I had in this game quit over this. He wasn't actually playing the game, but selling his assets and train his character with GTC's. He utilized ghost training in the process to keep the costs low. One day, EVE could be fun again, so his thought. He finally gave up on his hope after this desaster. So one more gone without the hope of he returning back.
I personally didn't use ghost training in the past much, just for those moments I forgot to prolong my gaming time. I did plan to do so in the future though, as cash is currently low. Now I feel forced, to consolidate my accounts and merge them together. This will put 6 characters on 2 accounts I pay for, one way or the others. I doubt, even if CCP backpedals one day, I'll move those characters to their own account again.
I personally don't care what they're talking about, as with other more or less recent PR desasters I won't trust them as far as I can throw them anyways. In my book this is no longer a bunch of spaceship enthusiasts, but some greedy buisiness people. I truely hope this backfires bad.
Flamming leads to anger, anger leads to pain, pain leads to suffering, and suffering leads to teh Dark Side !
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Zanpt
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.11.29 13:57:00 -
[5712]
Originally by: Kerfira
Originally by: fried eggs
Originally by: Kerfira I wonder why all the 1000's of players that emoragequit over this, the speed nerf and the missile nerf are still logging in.... http://www.eve-offline.net/?server=tranquility 41k players online this last day...
And you know that all of the people that have stated their intention to leave the game have not done so...how? You do know that you don't loose the right to login when you cancel an account, right? Or could it be that you are just attempting to "troll"?
Nope... Just pointing out that numbers doesn't match.... Some guy some pages back (cba to find it) was claiming that player numbers were dropping sharply because of this. I'm merely proving with numbers that they aren't...
Enjoy gnawing your liver
Online population numbers have been dropping since last March. They dropped further after the unsubbed training nerf then apparently got a bump from QR, from interest in the Orca, and possibly from a higher level of Eve banner ads across all gaming sites, as some friends have reported to me. So you are proving nothing.
We will see, over the coming months, how the numbers actually play out. At the time CCP created this crapstorm, the ppl deciding to consolidate accounts and/or quit were on some unknown mix of terms ranging from 30 days to one year. In Eve you can't get rid of time already paid; you can only cancel a recurring subscription so it doesn't recur when the current period expires, or decline to buy more time as a fixed-time sub like a GTC runs out.
I reactivated most of my accounts to check out the Orca. I did not expect that the Orca would change my mind about participating much less in Eve, and it didn't. I paid a premium to get one of the first ones off the manuf lines and have learned how to use it. My Orca pilot has about 25 days to go to reach Indu Command Ship V and max bonuses, but that account will expire before then and I don't care enough anymore to be concerned that his training will stop. My curiosity about the Orca has been satisfied and all my accounts are once again cancelled, expiring between Dec 12 and 19. After that only one or two will remain active to keep a hand in with corp and alliance matters.
After QR and the missile nerf I ran just one L3 mission, found it completely unsatisfactory, and immmediately put my fitted CNR up for sale. It brought in 850 mil, and I am happy. No more missions. I don't spend time and ISK to jump through silly hoops just because idiots at CCP ruin what works.
I'm sitting on 1.33 bil, more than enough to pay office rents and alliance fees for a long, long time.
Short of a detailed, abject apology by CCP and restoration of unsubbed training with a clear policy statement that it is a feature I can't imagine what could rekindle my interest in Eve. Certainly not ambulation, which will be merely a novelty unrelated to why I played Eve in the first place.
boot.ini: fail GTC changes: fail Training nerf: fail Lies and spin: fail Missile nerf: fail New and reappearing bugs: fail
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Zanpt
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.11.29 15:21:00 -
[5713]
Originally by: Kerfira ...I at least understand that a company needs paying customers to survive, and that giving stuff away freely on a regular basis is not good business practice.
You really must live in a cave. All types of businesses give all manner of stuff away for free... to attract first-time customers, to reward returning customers, to fill in slow days or seasons... to be competitive.
If you watched TV at all you would be deluged with ads offering "free" stuff, from discounts to low or no interest, to two-fers, etc. In my business we offer prospective customers a free trial of our product and we offer free lodging, meals and transportation for prospects and customers who visit us. All of that costs us, but it facilitates serious consideration of our product and helps increase sales. Unsubbed training, otoh, cost CCP nothing.
The incentive embodied in the unsubbed training was to reactivate accounts. That incentive is gone, and will most certainly impact the rate of reactivation. That was not a good business decision.
-7 accounts.
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Tasty Bit
Gallente UNITED STAR SYNDICATE
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Posted - 2008.11.29 15:49:00 -
[5714]
Originally by: Zanpt
Originally by: Kerfira ...I at least understand that a company needs paying customers to survive, and that giving stuff away freely on a regular basis is not good business practice.
You really must live in a cave. All types of businesses give all manner of stuff away for free... to attract first-time customers, to reward returning customers, to fill in slow days or seasons... to be competitive.
If you watched TV at all you would be deluged with ads offering "free" stuff, from discounts to low or no interest, to two-fers, etc. In my business we offer prospective customers a free trial of our product and we offer free lodging, meals and transportation for prospects and customers who visit us. All of that costs us, but it facilitates serious consideration of our product and helps increase sales. Unsubbed training, otoh, cost CCP nothing.
The incentive embodied in the unsubbed training was to reactivate accounts. That incentive is gone, and will most certainly impact the rate of reactivation. That was not a good business decision.
-7 accounts.
The last 2 posts are brilliantly stated, well done. However, I fear you are wasting your time. The "haz stuffz" brigade have no ability to understand your stance (mine too, apart from the interest in the Orca).
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Key west
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Posted - 2008.11.29 18:00:00 -
[5715]
I totally agree... the previous two posts were brillantly written and well said.
But hell... does CCP care? Nope... if they did, they would have responded to this by now.
I think I will complain to the BBB... just to let the American Better Business Buereau know that "Customer Service Complaints" aren't being acknowledged or addressed in a professional manner by CCP. Not that it will make a difference since this company isn't American based. They do however have offices in Atlanta, GA I believe. Nothing else I will give them a negative landmark in the BBB. I suggest everyone here to contact their form of the BBB as well.
I suppose CCP is trying to solve the lag problem by ridding their server of all the long time players and lord knows we need to get rid of all the lag causing ghost riders.
down 3 accounts, way to go CCP
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Five Dorrah
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Posted - 2008.11.29 18:13:00 -
[5716]
Can't say I really cared about this when I first read it, although it was nice to come back to a 2-month skill being completed after taking 8 months or so off not too long ago. It's hilarious having you guys play it off like this is a bug, or unintended feature, while listing it in your own knowledge base. I guess we're supposed to take your word for it when you say BoB doesn't get free Titans in exchange for BJ's, too. |
Stil Harkonnen
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Posted - 2008.11.29 19:28:00 -
[5717]
Edited by: Stil Harkonnen on 29/11/2008 19:32:35 Edited by: Stil Harkonnen on 29/11/2008 19:31:24 Edited by: Stil Harkonnen on 29/11/2008 19:29:18 Has CCP responded to this at all other than some post on one of the pages in between 10 and 20?
And if you didn't read that one, all it did was remind us to comment politely and respect each other.
If they haven't responded to our accusations of their being liars, I take that as a win. They don't know what to say to that because its true.
I'm glad I only have 1 account because CCP just screwed those with multiple accounts training those looong skills. I almost let cruiser V train ghost, but no the day it would've started, ghost training was killed. I still haven't trained Cruiser V, save for 3 days, because nobody wants to sit wand watch it train. My sister is training battlecruiser V, and she hasn't played for a single bit of it. Paying for time she's not even training.
CCP, if you don't call that being a greedy money-stealing *****rd, I don't know what is.
wow i can't believe they edited the word "n-i-g-g-a-r-d".
Read a dictionary and learn what it means, CCP. Your ignorance of the word helps prove that you are one.
"N-i-g-g-a-r-d-l-y" (noun: "n-i-g-g-a-r-d") is an adjective meaning "stingy" or "miserly"
There have been several controversies about the word "n-i-g-g-a-r-d-l-y", an adjective meaning "stingy" or "miserly", in the United States due to the phonetic similarity to the racial slur "******". The two words are, however, completely unrelated.
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Five Dorrah
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Posted - 2008.11.30 05:13:00 -
[5718]
Actually that's one of the root words for it, and the slur is a combination of *****rd, and nigra or negro, which is a Latin-based word for the color black in several languages. The reason it gets edited, is because people would, and have used various spellings to get past the filter.
Back on topic though, that's exactly why they haven't responded. They were caught in an outright lie, and are just hoping it will go away if they pretend they weren't caught with their pants down. Simple fact is though, their reason for changing this is just. I can't even imagine how many people are doing this to farm accounts and sell them for real money, or to sell characters for ISK, all at CCP's expense of course.
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Apertotes
Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2008.11.30 11:58:00 -
[5719]
Originally by: Five Dorrah I can't even imagine how many people are doing this to farm accounts and sell them for real money, or to sell characters for ISK, all at CCP's expense of course.
its not worth it. do the math. the money it takes to grow a character is more than the money you would get selling it (at any sp level).
the same can be said about isk. selling characters for isk is less profitable (and much more cumbersome) than buying GTC and selling them.
anybody doing any of those 2 things is an idiot.
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Brother Welcome
Amarr Suddenly Ninjas Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
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Posted - 2008.11.30 13:45:00 -
[5720]
Edited by: Brother Welcome on 30/11/2008 14:19:21 After expressing my concerns frankly I've remained silent on this thread, but dropped in to check it from time to time. To their discredit CCP are following the now standard corporate measure of silence. Individuals have relatively short interest spans: so I am sure it will be effective.
My 60-day sub ends in 3 days time.
-vk
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fried eggs
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.12.01 14:56:00 -
[5721]
Originally by: Brother Welcome Individuals have relatively short interest spans: so I am sure it will be effective.
Combined with expired/cancelled accounts, I'm afraid you are right. There won't be anyone left to speak up...
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8Z 6
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Posted - 2008.12.01 20:52:00 -
[5722]
they need to hurry about announcing their realization that this was a stupid idea and nothing more than a poorly timed april fools joke so i can reactivate my expired accounts. either that or i dont reactivate them. ever.
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Tasty Bit
Gallente UNITED STAR SYNDICATE
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Posted - 2008.12.01 21:14:00 -
[5723]
This, my accounts are slowly expiring, and whereas in the past I used to activate immediately after the skill finished, they're just sitting idle. And I'm not in the least inclined to reactivate.
The bell is tolling.
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meepakbong
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Posted - 2008.12.01 21:27:00 -
[5724]
Bring back ghost training, pls.
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Miuka
|
Posted - 2008.12.02 09:09:00 -
[5725]
Edited by: Miuka on 02/12/2008 09:10:22 And so ends my oh-so-brief space saga... I was going to deactivate my account for the holidays (since I'll be away for a few weeks) and then get back to pew pew. But with no ghost training during that time, it's buh-bye EVE for me, for good.
Grats CCP on losing another customer. And *sigh* back to WoW, you leave me no choice.
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Zanpt
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.12.02 11:24:00 -
[5726]
Originally by: Tasty Bit The last 2 posts are brilliantly stated, well done.
Thank you.
Originally by: Tasty Bit However, I fear you are wasting your time. The "haz stuffz" brigade have no ability to understand your stance (mine too, apart from the interest in the Orca).
The point is not to convince the "haz stuffz" crowd. The point is to make a record. We are turning down the spigot of our money to CCP and we are stating why we are doing it.
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Tasty Bit
Gallente UNITED STAR SYNDICATE
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Posted - 2008.12.02 11:33:00 -
[5727]
Yes, the "haz stuffz" imbeciles are irrelevant, and a waste of good oxygen. I wish there was an ignore button that could be utilised where the need arises.
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Zanpt
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.12.02 11:34:00 -
[5728]
Originally by: Five Dorrah Back on topic though, that's exactly why they haven't responded. They were caught in an outright lie, and are just hoping it will go away if they pretend they weren't caught with their pants down.
Probably so.
Originally by: Five Dorrah Simple fact is though, their reason for changing this is just. I can't even imagine how many people are doing this to farm accounts and sell them for real money, or to sell characters for ISK, all at CCP's expense of course.
Not so. You have obviously never tried to use unsubbed training to "farm" any chars. Even if that were your main activity in Eve, the unsubbed training only completed one step, then to train more the account would have to be reactivated (paid) again. Since all the training steps for new chars are short, there is little to be gained until much, much later, when things like Battleship V could take a month. The real advantage of unsubbed training doesn't come until training for capital ships, and I have trouble imagining a business based on farming cap ship pilots.
The most important aspect of unsubbed training was that it drew people back into the game, back into paid subscriptions. None of the people making wild claims about char farming have ever worked out how difficult that would be, nor how little the unsubbed training would help it.
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xxOutlawxx
Caldari Sounds Of Violence Rogue Intentions
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Posted - 2008.12.02 17:09:00 -
[5729]
Hmm reactive my account so that means I will just stay in this thread and protest as well.
Come on CCP bring back Ghost training, CCP you want the customers to come back and be happy: Bring back Ghost Training and tell the truth.
No wait CCP is confuse when they mix up the truth with lies.
Eve gives me the chance to waste my life away! Thanks CCP you did it again! |
Gone'Postal
Minmatar Rage of Inferno
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Posted - 2008.12.03 15:55:00 -
[5730]
Have they broke there vail of silence yet, or sticking to there.. 5 year bug gets fixed bull****e.
Boost SISI VOTE NOW! |
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Komiliya Jenius
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Posted - 2008.12.03 16:44:00 -
[5731]
"We figure out how to maximize our returns. "
Expect the Spring/Summer expansion to cost 19.99 and the sub prices to hit 39.99.
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fried eggs
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.12.03 17:51:00 -
[5732]
Originally by: Gone'Postal Have they broke there vail of silence yet, or sticking to there.. 5 year bug gets fixed bull****e.
CCP is using the famous "Ostrich Strategy". You know the one where you bury your head in the sand. They do have a host of "fans" in this thread screaming that CCP can do no wrong though. That might count for something...
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8Z 6
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Posted - 2008.12.03 21:33:00 -
[5733]
Originally by: fried eggs
Originally by: Gone'Postal Have they broke there vail of silence yet, or sticking to there.. 5 year bug gets fixed bull****e.
CCP is using the famous "Ostrich Strategy". You know the one where you bury your head in the sand. They do have a host of "fans" in this thread screaming that CCP can do no wrong though. That might count for something...
They have no fans. They have only dev alts pretending to be fans.
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Farouq Rizer
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Posted - 2008.12.04 07:03:00 -
[5734]
Looks like this thread is going to be dying off soon. I wonder if CCP has any room under the rug since I bet the t20 thread is taking alot of room.
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Gone'Postal
Minmatar Rage of Inferno
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Posted - 2008.12.04 11:57:00 -
[5735]
Originally by: Farouq Rizer Looks like this thread is going to be dying off soon. I wonder if CCP has any room under the rug since I bet the t20 thread is taking alot of room.
No, That big cheating bastard takes a lot of space under there.
Boost SISI VOTE NOW! |
Tasty Bit
Gallente UNITED STAR SYNDICATE
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Posted - 2008.12.04 12:00:00 -
[5736]
Originally by: Farouq Rizer Looks like this thread is going to be dying off soon. I wonder if CCP has any room under the rug since I bet the t20 thread is taking alot of room.
Those of us that were previously expressing our opinion are becoming apathetic. Most of my accounts are unsubbed atm, and I'm seriously considering letting the few remaining expire, allowing me to do other stuff that I always wanted to do anyway.
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Liu
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Posted - 2008.12.05 08:14:00 -
[5737]
hi, i've moved. yes, crysis. i was living on another account. i was the main character there. everything worked out on my favor, i felt like the princess of the universe. i could go wherever i wanted, do whatever i wanted, train whatever i wanted. and best of all, i had 2 minions that were devoted exclusively to me. oh my!!! those were the days.
But then it all changed. Month after month i found it more difficult to pay the rents. There were times when i had to spend a whole week or even month sleeping cause i didnt have isk enough to live a decent life. My host was kind enough to not charge me anything those months. It was a solution until my financial situation improved.
But suddenly, without any previous notificacion, my host told me that i would have to pay for every single day, even for those months i spent just sleeping. I could understand it perfectly, after all, he could suffer crysis as much as myself. Worst thing is that he wasnt sincere at all. He told me lie after lie trying to hide a quite understandable situation. He suddently went silent and put a timer on the lock so that i wouldnt enter the flat without paying.
So i had to move with my older brother. I feel guilty, cause he had to fire his own 2 minions so that i (and another brother that will come next week) could live with him.
But here everything is different. i can not do whatever i want whenever i want. My older brother has preference over me, so he gets the best, and if there is something left, then i can use it. i miss my old servants. they were so helpful. they did the shopping for me, and meanwhile i could spend all my time out there hunting or playing spy games.
Yes, the rent is shared now, but i feel that my former host has made a bad decission. Now, my old flat is empty. It means that nobody will sleep there for free. But it also means that my host will not receive those 7-9 monthly charges on average that he was getting from me. Well, now it is his problem. What i know is that if i ever recover from this financial situation, last thing i'd do is go back to my old place. i've heard that there are new worlds being discovered left and right. Also, there is this very old tale about a legendary System called Darkfall, land of honey and milk. Who knows, maybe someday we'll find it.
Have a nice day!
Originally by: Apertotes tbh, boot.ini was overpowered and needed a nerf
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Beladriel Ruadeth
|
Posted - 2008.12.05 16:48:00 -
[5738]
CCP, Riiight. Big floppy donky *you know what.*! This is rivaling my top 10 list of the most stupid things ever done. Placeholder for number one is me for actually thinking that EVE might be different and they'd actually care for the players more than for the game. And number two on the list; this stupidity!
Yes, please cancel everything on unssubbed accounts, no research, no production, no training, no sell orders, no buy orders, anything you can think of, cancel it all!! Up the cost of the game to hundreds... yes, dont mind us, we'll keep paying.
Dont mind our cries when wrong is being done to us and certainly dont try to heed our other requests like skill training queues, oh no, for the love of god, dont do that. Just be the way you are and keep doing things that bring you more money, its only right, we're all greedy, right?
I guess the spark that started this all was one man's idea of a game as great as this, and he/she thought it would be made cheap, fun, entertaining... the list goes on. It was propably even said in many occasions that players come first and so on. I wonder at wich point that spark died and money became the primary objective? *shrug*
This many complaints, this many unsatisfied players, so many subscriptions cancelled... and all we are asking is not to change something that has been unchanged for 5(!) YEARS!
Think about it you *add something filthty and unpolite words here.* ****s.
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Beladriel Ruadeth
|
Posted - 2008.12.05 17:06:00 -
[5739]
All account(s) cancelled 5.12.08
Will return if CCP says theyre sorry and fixes they're wrongs. It was fun, for now atleast it seems CCP does not care so I might not be coming back.
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Carl Druffee
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.12.06 11:11:00 -
[5740]
Originally by: Farouq Rizer Looks like this thread is going to be dying off soon. I wonder if CCP has any room under the rug since I bet the t20 thread is taking alot of room.
There is no coincidence this thread is dying... most people stood by their threats of quitting and not tolerating being lied to. And I guess they have no reason to get back into the game anymore...
I only have one account left now... Thanks for the 'power of two' and then ripping the rug from underneath our feet...
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|
Tasty Bit
Gallente UNITED STAR SYNDICATE
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Posted - 2008.12.06 12:04:00 -
[5741]
Originally by: Carl Druffee
Originally by: Farouq Rizer Looks like this thread is going to be dying off soon. I wonder if CCP has any room under the rug since I bet the t20 thread is taking alot of room.
There is no coincidence this thread is dying... most people stood by their threats of quitting and not tolerating being lied to. And I guess they have no reason to get back into the game anymore...
I only have one account left now... Thanks for the 'power of two' and then ripping the rug from underneath our feet...
The more apathy I see exhibited here, the more it's seeping into my being. After 4.5 years in Eve I've lost virtually all interest. Christ, yesterday I only logged in to change a skill, can't honestly say the last time I didnt spend at least a couple of hours doing the "more of the same".
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Gabriel Braun
|
Posted - 2008.12.07 12:36:00 -
[5742]
wth ppl, "I'm not playing anymore", "ccp lied to us", "omgwtf ccp?!?"
You're all behaving like 12 year olds. Do any of you actually run a business? I doubt it, at least for the ones who are moaning. Wth are you ghost training for anyway? play the ****** game ftw! ccp are right to knock ghost training on the head, but perhaps all of you who would like to continue training your characters while you're offline try another mmo... errrr... that's right, eve's still the only one without level grinding.
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Sandy Minge
Minmatar Minge Deep-Core-Drilling
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Posted - 2008.12.07 13:35:00 -
[5743]
Originally by: Gabriel Braun blah blah ... ccp fainboi ... rant yadda yadda ... blubb
Thanks for the free bump, Troll
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HyperZerg
|
Posted - 2008.12.07 18:58:00 -
[5744]
@ CPP It's very poor not to comment the stuff you did. That it was no bug we all know for sure anyway.
Was Ghost-training that bad ? There are only some skills worth ghost-training, most of the time you have to switch skills often anyway...
Ghost-Training was a great "comming back" feature. Sometimes you are tired of Eve and stop playing. let's say 4 month later, you think about playing again and see: "Yeah, BS on V"
To limit abuse, disable Ghost-training after 1 month of training. So you get at least 6 month money.
Btw, no ghost-training was the deciding point, no to reactive my alt char, just to mention it.
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Terces Yp's
|
Posted - 2008.12.07 19:57:00 -
[5745]
Originally by: Gabriel Braun Wth are you ghost training for anyway? play the ****** game ftw!
Folk leave the game for breaks. Not everyone plays eve 24/7. They train a skill, then pay to reactivate at a later date. They then rejoin friends at a similar SP level as when they left.
Now when you want to take a break & want to retain a similar SP level to your buddies, you will have to pay for the privilege. But if your reason to leave eve is financial well you wont pay will you, and your character will no longer grow with SP experience.
CCP has chosen to halt SP growth unless you pay for it. Now and forever.
5 Year inactive skill-training allowing you to keep up with your mates, while your on your holiday... gone, removed.
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8Z 6
|
Posted - 2008.12.08 00:09:00 -
[5746]
Originally by: Gabriel Braun Do any of you actually run a business? I doubt it, at least for the ones who are moaning.
with this statement youve made it apparent that you dont. nor will you ever with this attitude.
first and foremost in priority of any business is the satisfaction of the customer. granted, during better economic times customer service skills can be a bit more lax but the way the economy is now its time to break out the knee pads and get to work making sure your customers have a smile on their face. i cant recall any topic within eve causing this much dissatisfaction within the player base yet cccp has made no effort at fixing the problem. yes. its a problem when this many customers are expressing how disgusted they are at how cccps behavior has been.
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Jamburasca
|
Posted - 2008.12.08 12:14:00 -
[5747]
Good for you CCP! I dig this game and the way you run it. Free expansions, constant fixes and maximum fun. I have had excellent customer service any time that I have needed it. I don't care what the reasons for shutting down ghost training are, I'm glad it is ended.
I seriously doubt CCP has lost much money or sleep over this, nor should they. Many of you act like it is your right to use this product without paying for it. It doesn't matter what they said in past about whether it is a bug or not, it is their product and they will always reserve the right to change it any way they feel. I'm glad they had the sack to do it.
Are you crying about your economic situation? You think that CCP should give you free service because now you can't afford it? If you are playing a spacegame rather than taking care of yourselves or your families, then you might need an overhaul of your priorities. You had a good thing while it lasted, now get over yourselves and play the game or move on.
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Squirrrel
Gallente Squirrrel Industries
|
Posted - 2008.12.08 15:50:00 -
[5748]
Originally by: Gabriel Braun wth ppl, "I'm not playing anymore", "ccp lied to us", "omgwtf ccp?!?"
You're all behaving like 12 year olds. Do any of you actually run a business? I doubt it, at least for the ones who are moaning. Wth are you ghost training for anyway? play the ****** game ftw! ccp are right to knock ghost training on the head, but perhaps all of you who would like to continue training your characters while you're offline try another mmo... errrr... that's right, eve's still the only one without level grinding.
...and if you don't understand a customers' right to complain about service they receive, or fail to grasp the real reason for the complaints.... well, then maybe you are 12.
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Squirrrel
Gallente Squirrrel Industries
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Posted - 2008.12.08 15:52:00 -
[5749]
Originally by: Jamburasca Good for you CCP! I dig this game and the way you run it. Free expansions, constant fixes and maximum fun. I have had excellent customer service any time that I have needed it. I don't care what the reasons for shutting down ghost training are, I'm glad it is ended.
I seriously doubt CCP has lost much money or sleep over this, nor should they. Many of you act like it is your right to use this product without paying for it. It doesn't matter what they said in past about whether it is a bug or not, it is their product and they will always reserve the right to change it any way they feel. I'm glad they had the sack to do it.
Are you crying about your economic situation? You think that CCP should give you free service because now you can't afford it? If you are playing a spacegame rather than taking care of yourselves or your families, then you might need an overhaul of your priorities. You had a good thing while it lasted, now get over yourselves and play the game or move on.
This. Totally.
Then again, I'm roleplaying a total muppet too.
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Galea Wildfang
Inebriated Consortium Enterprises Inc.
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Posted - 2008.12.08 18:13:00 -
[5750]
Originally by: Jamburasca Good for you CCP! I dig this game and the way you run it. Free expansions, constant fixes and maximum fun. I have had excellent customer service any time that I have needed it. I don't care what the reasons for shutting down ghost training are, I'm glad it is ended.
I seriously doubt CCP has lost much money or sleep over this, nor should they. Many of you act like it is your right to use this product without paying for it. It doesn't matter what they said in past about whether it is a bug or not, it is their product and they will always reserve the right to change it any way they feel. I'm glad they had the sack to do it.
Are you crying about your economic situation? You think that CCP should give you free service because now you can't afford it? If you are playing a spacegame rather than taking care of yourselves or your families, then you might need an overhaul of your priorities. You had a good thing while it lasted, now get over yourselves and play the game or move on.
I remember posts like this from the Age of Conan Forum ..
At first people thought it's funny to write stuff like 'don't let the door hit you'..
Two months later you could walk through this pvp game unmolested, as you were one of a few dozen people left actually playing. Yeah, it's their right to do with their game as they see fit .. and it's every players right to complain about changes and/or cancel their subscription, as they see fit.
Flamming leads to anger, anger leads to pain, pain leads to suffering, and suffering leads to teh Dark Side !
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|
Chong Woon
|
Posted - 2008.12.09 06:19:00 -
[5751]
Although the "No more Ghost Training Thing" didn't really affect me much since I only have one account and am already where I want to be in Skillwise in Eve, I do take a dim view of a company who tries to pass a pile of BS as Prime Steak.
It's their game and they do what they want with it, but I also pay and I at least expect to be told honestly why they're doing something instead of spouting of some half-assed Spin Bug-BS.
This makes me less likely to support your associated products.
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Jamburasca
|
Posted - 2008.12.09 06:55:00 -
[5752]
Quote: I remember posts like this from the Age of Conan Forum ..
At first people thought it's funny to write stuff like 'don't let the door hit you'..
I don't think it's funny at all. I'm dead serious. I am sick of players who stomp their feet and demand to not pay for the product they use. Do you think it is good customer service to let them do that? Do you think any business can survive by giving their product away? Try that with your bank, telephone company or gas station. It goes something like this:
"Hey man, can I try your gas out for awhile? While I'm at it, I'll fill my other two cars up and just pay you for the one tank full. What? I'm crazy? C'mon dude, you are gonna lose a repeat customer. What? Go f*** my sister? You don't want me using three gallons of gas when I pay for only one? I'm gonna tell every one I know what crappy customer service you have and no one is going to buy gas here again. And I don't even have a sister."
Do you seriously think that CCP is losing much money or players because they got rid of a feature, bug, whatever, that allows a player with three accounts to pay for one subscription while his characters continue to progress? Logged into the game lately? I see the exact opposite. Look at the server statistics alone.
CCP provides a game that is unrivaled in the industry. They got that way by making smart business decisions and working their asses off. They have increased their staff and upgraded their technology to meet customer demand. They are constantly making fixes and upgrades and expansions. Ever bother to read the DevBlog? That staff gets paid by revenue generated by subscriptions and merchandising. Do you think they should work for free? Would you?
And really, I believe I get outstanding value for the money I pay for both of my accounts. Hell you can even pay for your GTC's with isk. WTF else do you want? Most players I know love this game. Tons of players I see in game have been playing for years, many years. Why do you think that is? Because CCP is an evil money grubbing sweat shop?
Age of Conan is calling you back to its fold. Oh, I wonder if your character has been skilling up while you were away?
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Chong Woon
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Posted - 2008.12.09 07:20:00 -
[5753]
Edited by: Chong Woon on 09/12/2008 07:21:14 @Jamburasca
You're missing the point of this thread, CCP can do whatever they want with the game, it's theirs and as you said they worked hard for it. Most people are up in arms here is about being Lied to by CCP.
You do not appreciate this "sudden" change 1 week after a promo that encourages you to get 2 accounts. Or that payment schemes "suddenly" change to be more pricier.
When people ask for an explanation we do not like to hear a bug-feature-whatever explanation that contradicts whatever was said before and instead of clearing things up they go silent...
If that happened to you in a real life situation you'd be up in arms too.
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Liu
|
Posted - 2008.12.09 08:04:00 -
[5754]
Originally by: Jamburasca
...lots of things...
you are right, CCP is a company, and its there for the money. just like blizzard, or turbine. that is nor wrong per se. the problem is that until some months ago, they were different. they cared for their customers and had a much more personal relation with them than the rest of the companies.
if you feel the game is so good that you dont care being lied about it, fine. i do not think it is as good.
Originally by: Apertotes tbh, boot.ini was overpowered and needed a nerf
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Jamburasca
|
Posted - 2008.12.09 08:58:00 -
[5755]
Honestly, I am trying to see where the lie is. Because CCP said it was a bug or unintended feature? Or because they once touted it as a benefit? Or because they shut down Ghost Training and then changed some of their subscription options? They raised their prices? And all this coincided with the ending of Ghost Training?
Ever see a business that doesn't raise prices or change policies? Do you think CCP isn't being a good citizen because of that? I don't believe CCP is in this just for the money, if they were you'd be getting a lot less than what you are paying for, which still, btw, is not all that much.
Do you really think that CCP doesn't care about their customers? Why? Because they don't answer every unreasonable demand posted in the forum? Do you read the forums? There is some crazy stuff here. I'm sure CCP employess who have to monitor this stuff must shake their heads in wonder. DO you know why they don't actively participate in a dialogue about all this? Because many times forum readers take out of context what a Dev or GM says and it becomes forum law, the foot stomping begins along with chants of "It's our right, gimme!". I have seen this many times, really it's quite disgusting.
This game is fun, play the game. If you think CCP sucks and you find yourself in an adversarial relationship with them, then don't pay and don't play.
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Carl Druffee
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.12.09 14:54:00 -
[5756]
Originally by: Jamburasca Honestly, I am trying to see where the lie is.
Originally by: Jamburasca This game is fun, play the game. If you think CCP sucks and you find yourself in an adversarial relationship with them, then don't pay and don't play.
You didn't bother reading even a single post in this thread, did you?
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Madius
|
Posted - 2008.12.09 15:51:00 -
[5757]
Originally by: Liu
Originally by: Jamburasca
...lots of things...
you are right, CCP is a company, and its there for the money. just like blizzard, or turbine. that is nor wrong per se. the problem is that until some months ago, they were different. they cared for their customers and had a much more personal relation with them than the rest of the companies.
if you feel the game is so good that you dont care being lied about it, fine. i do not think it is as good.
Funny how CCP "cared for their customers" up until the point where they actually made you pay in order for your alts to benefit, and now they're greedy capitalist fat-cats out to rob you blind.
They provide a service - a luxury - to paying customers; they have no obligation, contractual or ethical, to give in-game benefits to freeloaders. This change was a long time coming.
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fried eggs
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.12.09 16:24:00 -
[5758]
Originally by: Jamburasca Honestly, I am trying to see where the lie is.
I canÆt tell if you are truly nanve or just trying to set up an argument. Your next few questions make me think the latter.
Originally by: Jamburasca Because CCP said it was a bug or unintended feature? Or because they once touted it as a benefit?
Yes, this is pretty much it in a nut shell. If you canÆt see the deception there, then there is really very little left to discuss.
Originally by: Jamburasca Or because they shut down Ghost Training and then changed some of their subscription options?
Partially, yes.
Originally by: Jamburasca They raised their prices?
Partially, yes.
Originally by: Jamburasca And all this coincided with the ending of Ghost Training?
Yes
Originally by: Jamburasca Ever see a business that doesn't raise prices or change policies?
Not often, but this is irrelevant to the topic. As stated earlier, please link to a quote, by anyone opposed to the recent changes, where it is stated that ôweö do not believe that CCP is a business. My opinion is that CCP has made bad decisions in implementing the current changes and compounded the issue by being dishonest. BTWàdo you or any ôsupportersö think that just because you become incorporated you become immune to making bad business choices?
Originally by: Jamburasca Do you think CCP isn't being a good citizen because of that?
I donÆt know what you are trying to imply here.
Originally by: Jamburasca I don't believe CCP is in this just for the money, if they were you'd be getting a lot less than what you are paying for, which still, btw, is not all that much.
I for one think that since you are a paying customer you are entitled to voice your opinion, even if I disagree with it.
Originally by: Jamburasca Do you really think that CCP doesn't care about their customers?
Their actions speak for themselves.
Originally by: Jamburasca Why?
Addressed above ^
Originally by: Jamburasca Because they don't answer every unreasonable demand posted in the forum?
So now you get to decide what is reasonable and what is not?
Originally by: Jamburasca Do you read the forums?
Obviously.
Originally by: Jamburasca There is some crazy stuff here. I'm sure CCP employess who have to monitor this stuff must shake their heads in wonder.
WouldnÆt you agree that that is part of their job.
Originally by: Jamburasca DO you know why they don't actively participate in a dialogue about all this?
IÆm sure you are going to tell usà
Originally by: Jamburasca Because many times forum readers take out of context what a Dev or GM says and it becomes forum law, the foot stomping begins along with chants of "It's our right, gimme!".
Where this falls down is the lack of input on certain topics. There is plenty of input about anything that is not controversial. What is so wrong with holding someone accountable for their words?
Originally by: Jamburasca I have seen this many times, really it's quite disgusting.
Relevance?
Originally by: Jamburasca This game is fun, play the game. If you think CCP sucks and you find yourself in an adversarial relationship with them, then don't pay and don't play.
Well, since you say itÆs OK, I will (cancel that is).
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Tasty Bit
Gallente UNITED STAR SYNDICATE
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Posted - 2008.12.09 17:22:00 -
[5759]
Good on you, fried eggs. I, for one, wouldn't have wasted more than zero seconds replying to the CCP employee-alt.
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Forino Ovoli
Multiverse Corporation
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Posted - 2008.12.09 17:26:00 -
[5760]
Absolutely NO sympathy for anyone whining about this decision (fix) to the mechanics. Shame on CCP for allowing it to go on this long.
As someone that pays annually for several subscriptions, and has done so for years now, I was never happy that others could cheat the system and train while not playing.
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|
Liu
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Posted - 2008.12.09 19:06:00 -
[5761]
Originally by: Forino Ovoli Absolutely NO sympathy for anyone whining about this decision (fix) to the mechanics. Shame on CCP for allowing it to go on this long.
As someone that pays annually for several subscriptions, and has done so for years now, I was never happy that others could cheat the system and train while not playing.
so, how do you feel about rested experience on WoW or LoTRO? is it also unfair for those playing 24/7?
anyway, you missed the point of the mourning by a long shot.
Originally by: Apertotes tbh, boot.ini was overpowered and needed a nerf
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Galea Wildfang
Inebriated Consortium Enterprises Inc.
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Posted - 2008.12.09 19:15:00 -
[5762]
Originally by: Jamburasca
I don't think it's funny at all. I'm dead serious. I am sick of players who stomp their feet and demand to not pay for the product they use. Do you think it is good customer service to let them do that? Do you think any business can survive by giving their product away? Try that with your bank, telephone company or gas station. (...)
Let's see ...
If I register with my gas station, I get a refund for every little bit I fuel my motorcycle. So with your words, they must be close to shut their doors.
I threatened my phone company as I was unhappy with a couple of their changes, so the backpedaled and I am where I was before.
Secondly, no one can use or play his character, while he's unsubscribed. He can only train a skill for whatever reason. Those people don't use up bandwith, they aren't lagging the server, they aren't even doing anything to the database. All they do is comming back and reactivate their account for another 30 or 60 days, most likely do nothing but changing skills, and that's about it. And the arguement about the server statistics isn't saying anything either, as those ghost training people do so on their alts usually, while playing their mains.
The main thing is though, if CCP did come forward with something like: 'recently sold a Titan V Pilot on the forum for close to 80 billion, and since then we see a large increase in people ghost training their alts and we wish that to stop.' would have been understandable. But the way they did it looks like they want to squeeze some more cash out of their customers and that's about it.
I don't think it makes any difference for their wallet, as some people will quit while others keep their alts alive. So in the end, it doesn't do anything beside losing some customers. And that's probably the worst thing, any company can do. I saw alot of companies fail or get close to shut down their biz just because they didn't care for their customers much.
Flamming leads to anger, anger leads to pain, pain leads to suffering, and suffering leads to teh Dark Side !
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Galea Wildfang
Inebriated Consortium Enterprises Inc.
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Posted - 2008.12.09 19:20:00 -
[5763]
Edited by: Galea Wildfang on 09/12/2008 19:21:40
Originally by: Forino Ovoli Absolutely NO sympathy for anyone whining about this decision (fix) to the mechanics. Shame on CCP for allowing it to go on this long.
As someone that pays annually for several subscriptions, and has done so for years now, I was never happy that others could cheat the system and train while not playing.
Absolutely no sympathy to anyone paying anually. As someone living on GTC's, I demand everyone paying close to 20 Ç per month ....
:p
Flamming leads to anger, anger leads to pain, pain leads to suffering, and suffering leads to teh Dark Side !
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fried eggs
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.12.09 20:21:00 -
[5764]
Originally by: Forino Ovoli Absolutely NO sympathy for anyone whining about this decision (fix) to the mechanics.
The "mechanics" were never broken. CCP incorrectly (IMO) perceived a way to squeeze more money out of their customers and rendered a former "Feature" unusable.
Originally by: Forino Ovoli Shame on CCP for allowing it to go on this long.
Shame on CCP for allowing their customers to use an advertised "FEATURE" for so long? Please.
Originally by: Forino Ovoli As someone that pays annually for several subscriptions, and has done so for years now, I was never happy that others could cheat the system and train while not playing.
If you have proof that someone has "cheated", petition it. Otherwise, keep your allegations to yourself. BTW...do you by chance remember the T20 incident? What's your position on playing a game where dev's that are exposed as cheaters are left on staff? If that doesn't bother you, but someone that utilizes a documented feature of the same game does, I don't think we have any common ground to reach.
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Kaptain Kruncher
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Posted - 2008.12.09 20:39:00 -
[5765]
You can argue and whine all you want, you had a free ride for awhile and now it's over.
Ghost training is done. You lose. Argue that.
Besides fried eggs, I thought you said you were gonna quit.
You sound like a dissatisfied customer- you should quit.
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Air Xonix
Minmatar Ping 127.0.0.1 R.I.S.K
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Posted - 2008.12.09 20:47:00 -
[5766]
Unfortunately CCP disabled this feature when i was started to learn long skill on main character but i hope CCP knows what they do.
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Tasty Bit
Gallente UNITED STAR SYNDICATE
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Posted - 2008.12.09 20:48:00 -
[5767]
Originally by: fried eggs The "mechanics" were never broken. CCP incorrectly (IMO) perceived a way to squeeze more money out of their customers and rendered a former "Feature" unusable.
Nothing more. Nothing less.
No bug (they already said ages ago they wouldnt be removing it from TQ when they removed the feature from the Chinese server). It wasn't a bug then, it's not a bug now.
No "cheaters"; quite how someone would accomplish this baffles me. Nobody playing the game for free.
More cash. Period. Gimme gimme gimme. Back and fire spring to mind.
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fried eggs
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.12.09 20:51:00 -
[5768]
Originally by: Kaptain Kruncher You can argue and whine all you want, you had a free ride for awhile and now it's over.
Ghost training is done. You lose. Argue that.
Besides fried eggs, I thought you said you were gonna quit.
You sound like a dissatisfied customer- you should quit.
Let me guess, you are an alt of someone that got their silly arguments crushed. Well, don't feel bad. In one respect you are right. We probably will lose. CCP probably will not reinstate Un-subbed training, nor bring the cost of the 60-day GTC back into line, nor make 30 and/or 90 day GTC available again, nor etc... So, in the end, those of us that are true to our words will be gone (just because you cancel your account does not mean you lose access to the time you have already paid for genius). There will be some people that forgive and forget no doubt. I however, will not be one of them. As someone said earlier (maybe even me) "Enjoy your version of EVE, it will be alot different from the one I played".
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Kaptain Kruncher
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Posted - 2008.12.09 21:15:00 -
[5769]
Yawn.
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Squirrrel
Gallente Squirrrel Industries
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Posted - 2008.12.09 21:24:00 -
[5770]
Originally by: Kaptain Kruncher Yawn.
You just re-read your own post right?
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Squirrrel
Gallente Squirrrel Industries
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Posted - 2008.12.09 21:25:00 -
[5771]
Look, when are all you whiners - harping on about how CCP obviously don't give a damn about their customers - going to realise that CCP don't give a damn how you feel about this change, nor retaining you as customers?
When will you realise that rational business sense is for them to make this change regardless of how you feel because they can and because it's unfair on their bottom line. They don't give a damn if you all stop subscribing and just leave the game, spending your stupid a$$ whiner-money somewhere else, and making you pay for your previously free lunch at the same time? Do you not understand profit margins? Sheeesh.. None of you understand what it's like to run a business. You all act like you've never played Theme Park.
When will you realise that their reasoning for stating ghost training was too much of a load on their DB was to protect those people who DO pay, and because you're too stupid to understand the simplicity of the fact that too many alts are ghost trained for selling on and that maximising money is the only corporate aim? It was a white lie. The good kind. To protect you.
How many of you maggots sat staring at the login screen for hours on end, getting your free lunch and EveFix when your sub ran out; whilst you were laming it up abusing the ghost training bug?
So what if this used to be classed as a feature? They play the game too, they don't have time to iron out all the stupid things you want changed or what the game needs to have changed. It was only 5 years. You expect them to fix bugs when YOU want them to? Be thankful they give you free patches, let alone expansions. Eve isn't the same as any other game you know, they could easily get away with **** like that as this is the best internet spaceship game there is, if not best MMO.
Just pay, play and shut the hell up and roll with it. Only kids stamp their feet and complain. Adults suck it up or just leave. No one needs your so-called essential feedback. No one cares you're leaving. No one will care you're gone.
You just can't get stuff for free, the real world isn't like that, Eve isn't like that - even if you knew T20.
Seriously, you lot make me sick. I hope you all leave so I can enjoy this game in peace.
Adapt or die ftw phailers... etc.
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Kaptain Kruncher
|
Posted - 2008.12.09 21:39:00 -
[5772]
Quote: You all act like you've never played Theme Park.
Singlehandedly THE best comment ever.
If you were running for CSM and I wasted the time to vote for a CSM, You would have my vote.
I tip my empathy implant to you Squirrel
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Squirrrel
Gallente Squirrrel Industries
|
Posted - 2008.12.09 22:09:00 -
[5773]
Originally by: Kaptain Kruncher
Quote: You all act like you've never played Theme Park.
Singlehandedly THE best comment ever.
If you were running for CSM and I wasted the time to vote for a CSM, You would have my vote.
I tip my empathy implant to you Squirrel
Well... I ask you, these people have no attention to detail and just see what they want to see right?
|
Von Domiki
|
Posted - 2008.12.09 23:53:00 -
[5774]
Originally by: Squirrrel
Just pay, play and shut the hell up and roll with it. Only kids stamp their feet and complain. Adults suck it up or just leave. No one needs your so-called essential feedback. No one cares you're leaving. No one will care you're gone.
That's all very reasonable, but what do you say about the issue of people that can't play for RL reasons, but wanting to keep up? Playing just to keep skill training is somewhat irrational. Not only CCP can count money well, some people too.
|
Madius
|
Posted - 2008.12.10 00:08:00 -
[5775]
Originally by: Von Domiki That's all very reasonable, but what do you say about the issue of people that can't play for RL reasons, but wanting to keep up? Playing just to keep skill training is somewhat irrational. Not only CCP can count money well, some people too.
Too bad for them? They should be happy that they can progress at all while not playing, most MMOs - hell, most games, period - require you to actually be there doing things to progress.
If they don't want to pay, they don't get skill points. It's not rocket science.
|
Travyrr
|
Posted - 2008.12.10 00:13:00 -
[5776]
Well, I couldn't leave Eve without posting my rant along with the thousands of others here. Yup, you guessed it, another loyal gamer of over 3 years has finally had enough. CCP--you can only screw your players over for so long! Add my two accounts to the long list of people who won't be paying their subscriptions.
I can't help but believe this is a ploy to get rid of all the older players in the game. Let's face it--most of the true fans of this game had multiple accounts, especially the vets. This is a great way to reduce the vets in the game by a factor of two, or three, or five. I guess it will be up to the new players to carry the torch. Hopefully CCP will treat them better than it has treated us.
|
Squirrrel
Gallente Squirrrel Industries
|
Posted - 2008.12.10 00:13:00 -
[5777]
Originally by: Von Domiki
Originally by: Squirrrel
Just pay, play and shut the hell up and roll with it. Only kids stamp their feet and complain. Adults suck it up or just leave. No one needs your so-called essential feedback. No one cares you're leaving. No one will care you're gone.
That's all very reasonable, but what do you say about the issue of people that can't play for RL reasons, but wanting to keep up? Playing just to keep skill training is somewhat irrational. Not only CCP can count money well, some people too.
My answer would be: Context.
|
Darth Gus
|
Posted - 2008.12.10 09:23:00 -
[5778]
Edited by: Darth Gus on 10/12/2008 09:25:01
Originally by: Forino Ovoli Absolutely NO sympathy for anyone whining about this decision (fix) to the mechanics. Shame on CCP for allowing it to go on this long.
As someone that pays annually for several subscriptions, and has done so for years now, I was never happy that others could cheat the system and train while not playing.
There's a world of difference between CCP needing the money and telling their players, "We need the money!" and them telling their players, "It was a bug, not a feature. It put an undue load on our database. It wasn't fair to people who got a discount for paying for a full year at a time and actually played the game all year. You were cheating us. This former feature was really a bug. Really. We stealth-edited the manual to say so. Now buy the new and improved bloatedly-priced industry-standard 60 day GTC's or else your skills will stop training!"
Anybody who doesn't see this difference is either a) a selfish asshat, b) a selfish asshat troll, or c) a selfish asshat troll CCP alt handling customer relations by disinformation.
Which are you, sir? And how will you feel when you've paid for your precious year-long subscription and CCP closes the doors the very next day because they ran off the rest of their paying customers, CCP alts aside?
Argue that.
--- Darth Gus One Terribly Dissatisfied Soon to Be Former Customer
|
marie blueprint
|
Posted - 2008.12.10 12:32:00 -
[5779]
the offline training used to be a selling point that ccp advertised.tbh with this the price hikes killing and jacking gtc and nerf after nerf it's starting to look like ccp wants to close.
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Darth Gus
Amarr Total Holdings Corporation
|
Posted - 2008.12.10 13:00:00 -
[5780]
Edited by: Darth Gus on 10/12/2008 13:03:26 This whole topic is making me wish the United States would put a steep tariff on online games provided by other countries. Or maybe specifically Iceland.
Seriously. People should be protected from this kind of dishonesty.
--- Darth Gus One Terribly Dissatisfied Soon to Be Former Customer
|
|
Madius
|
Posted - 2008.12.10 14:21:00 -
[5781]
Originally by: marie blueprint the offline training used to be a selling point that ccp advertised.tbh with this the price hikes killing and jacking gtc and nerf after nerf it's starting to look like ccp wants to close.
Offline training still exists. What you can't do anymore is train while your account is inactive.
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Feyzir
|
Posted - 2008.12.10 15:09:00 -
[5782]
Originally by: Madius
Originally by: marie blueprint the offline training used to be a selling point that ccp advertised.tbh with this the price hikes killing and jacking gtc and nerf after nerf it's starting to look like ccp wants to close.
Offline training still exists. What you can't do anymore is train while your account is inactive.
Newb alert: There was a way of changing your skill training without starting up the EVE client? Was there some web service that I was unaware of?
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Sassaniak
|
Posted - 2008.12.10 15:27:00 -
[5783]
Edited by: Sassaniak on 10/12/2008 15:32:36 Mew? Whining about not wanting to pay? Huh? I must have missed something, If you stop paying for wow or any other game do you still skill train? Is your account even still available for reactivation? (Ive only played this MMORPG) If you pay you still train, If you stop Paying you stop training, online or off, why is this such an issue? are you playing the game if your account is inactive? have you been training your alt to lev 5 on everything through ghost training and now you cant get carriers 5? is that really a thing to whine about? So now you have to pay consistantly for your 10 alts, and the alt to isk ratios is down compaired to buying GTC or even (god forbid) actually use cash,I missed the actual complaints somewhere, "what i cant sell cheap alts anymore?" is that really a valid complaint?
Oh yeah and to answer the above, you are referring to having to pay to switch skills right? how long is carriers 5 or dreads 5 or freighters 5 or even titans 5? a 30 day gtc wont cover all of it so you could get free training time, Or were you referring to having to just log in, to switch skills, which, if you were paying isnt really that big of a deal, and has been debated (skill que) to death. but not fixes,
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Thraile
|
Posted - 2008.12.10 15:37:00 -
[5784]
That's it. ;)
I will not be resubbing any of my accounts. This is the final nail in the coffin for my Eve career, after 5 years.
A small drop in the ocean you say; perhaps. However, if enough people see how you fare, maybe you will get the point.
If it isn't broken, don't fix it.
Goodbye, and thank you for the good times. Good luck downhill ;)
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fried eggs
Caldari
|
Posted - 2008.12.10 15:41:00 -
[5785]
Originally by: Sassaniak stuff...
I realize it's not practical to ask you to read this entire thread, but would it be too hard for you to read a couple of pages? Maybe the first and last 1 or 2? I think that you will find that your complaints about our complaints are off base. If you don't reach that conclusion, read the entire thread. If you still don't get it, well, there is really little else left to say.
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Madius
|
Posted - 2008.12.10 15:46:00 -
[5786]
Originally by: Thraile That's it. ;)
I will not be resubbing any of my accounts. This is the final nail in the coffin for my Eve career, after 5 years.
A small drop in the ocean you say; perhaps. However, if enough people see how you fare, maybe you will get the point.
If it isn't broken, don't fix it.
Goodbye, and thank you for the good times. Good luck downhill ;)
If a bunch of alt-whoring freeloaders leave, all the better.
|
SusanXP
|
Posted - 2008.12.10 15:48:00 -
[5787]
Meh. Ghost character training was a win-win situation.
I really hope it will be reenabled again.
I have an account which gets paid via CC every year and another one with GTC and I have to admit the Ghost Char Training was quite useful. Again, hop it gets enabled again. Best regards.
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fried eggs
Caldari
|
Posted - 2008.12.10 16:08:00 -
[5788]
Originally by: Madius If a bunch of alt-whoring freeloaders leave, all the better.
Please define "alt-whoring freeloader" for me.
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Lord Fitz
Project Amargosa
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Posted - 2008.12.10 16:20:00 -
[5789]
You can argue 'fair' all you like, that is a strawman arguement. The real questions are if it actually WILL increase CCP's revenue, which it won't, it will decrease it. And why they feel the need to lie to the playerbase, repeatedly. There are many very smart people playing this game (and the rest), who don't take kindly to being treated like idiots.
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FinrodFelagund
Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2008.12.10 18:14:00 -
[5790]
Hearing this makes me happy and sad. Happy because I didn't activate my other 3 accounts like I was going to, and sad because I reactivated two for the specific purpose of setting long term skills before I come back.
With all the multi-accounting and with skills that can take 3 months to train, this was pretty ill thought out. If you quit now there's not really incentive to come back. It's nice to know you're going to have carrier 5 or whatever finished if you ever do come back to the game.
I'm not really sure I want to come back now. This is nothing but a money grab and if this is to be a new trend in ccp you guys are gonna go down hill faster then SOE.
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|
Tasty Bit
Gallente UNITED STAR SYNDICATE
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Posted - 2008.12.10 20:02:00 -
[5791]
Originally by: Lord Fitz You can argue 'fair' all you like, that is a strawman arguement. The real questions are if it actually WILL increase CCP's revenue, which it won't, it will decrease it.
End of story. Let's discuss the opportunity to make even more cash by charging cash for time you are online, on top of the monthly fee.
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FinrodFelagund
Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2008.12.10 20:05:00 -
[5792]
I still can't believe this, I would understand if a skill queuer were impleneted WITH this change, but no skill queuer just removal of this documented feature with some BS cover story for the money grab... It's just sick.
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8Z 6
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Posted - 2008.12.10 20:31:00 -
[5793]
I said it in another thread where cccp came up with another hare brained abortion of an idea...this game has jumped the shark. its quality peaked now its on its way down hill in a handbasket. good job. get rid of some of these new devs who seem like the instigation behind all of these game-destroying ideas. either that or stop hiring lobotomy addicts.
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Sassaniak
|
Posted - 2008.12.10 21:32:00 -
[5794]
Edited by: Sassaniak on 10/12/2008 21:34:48 Edited by: Sassaniak on 10/12/2008 21:33:23 I had a long post but meh, where is the skill que? and where are all the other things that have been promised "soon"?
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Nannu Who
|
Posted - 2008.12.10 22:13:00 -
[5795]
Originally by: Sassaniak I had a long post but meh, where is the skill que? and where are all the other things that have been promised "soon"?
To be honest I see less of a reason for a skill que now than ever.
'Why?' you may ask.
Well because you wont be subbing off to train your big skills any more will you. You will have to grind them down a few days at a time. So if you can't train a certain skill due to being away for whatever reason, it'll be the bigger level V's that'll now be trained.
PS: CCP really don't want a skill que Also another reason they disabled the inactive skill train feature is... They want you to be in the game playing & enjoying it, not just training skills.
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Squirrrel
Gallente Squirrrel Industries
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Posted - 2008.12.10 22:37:00 -
[5796]
Edited by: Squirrrel on 10/12/2008 22:39:38
Originally by: Nannu Who They want you to be in the game playing & enjoying it, not just training skills.
Well they kind of blew that wide open when they decided to opt for a route of offline training didn't they?
That's what they say anyway, they want you to be playing the game. I think it's now become simply paying and not playing. It's ok to tout that your product allows for this training type, but rationally there has to be some kind of balance. You can't compare it even to rested xp in other games, since even with rested xp you can still power through the levels . EvE has to stand up on it's own merits for what it can and can't do, and does not merit direct comparisons.
I actually hope they do make it so you have to be in the game to train, going that one step further. Just to see the reaction of some of the fanboys in this thread - that'll wipe those self-righteous smiles of their faces.
Fact is, an easier way to have tackled unsubbed training becoming abused and unfair, would be that you have to hit certain pre-req milestones for that skills. i.e cap ships would mean a certain amount of time piloting a battleship. AF's - frigates etc - and all undocked time so you can't just have it sat in station milking the system to sell on.
Hammer. Nut. Good job.
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Darth Gus
Amarr Total Holdings Corporation
|
Posted - 2008.12.10 22:55:00 -
[5797]
Edited by: Darth Gus on 10/12/2008 23:03:27
Originally by: Nannu Who
Originally by: Sassaniak I had a long post but meh, where is the skill que? and where are all the other things that have been promised "soon"?
To be honest I see less of a reason for a skill que now than ever.
'Why?' you may ask.
Well because you wont be subbing off to train your big skills any more will you. You will have to grind them down a few days at a time. So if you can't train a certain skill due to being away for whatever reason, it'll be the bigger level V's that'll now be trained.
PS: CCP really don't want a skill que Also another reason they disabled the inactive skill train feature is... They want you to be in the game playing & enjoying it, not just training skills.
Yeah, sure. That's why they lied to us. Not just once, but repeatedly, and with differing stories. No really, what they want us to do is pay. But apparently they don't want us to pay badly enough to tell us the truth or exhibit the least bit of transparency. So, in lieu of us paying, they'll settle for us acting as their advertising force, recruiting new people for them to victimize with lies and deceit.
I won't do it. CCP is chock full of bull****. My account expires 1/20/09 (20/1/09 if you're in Europe). There's no reason for me to come back because our wails fall on the deaf ears of arrogant liars. Do their bidding if you will, I'm going to do the opposite. And no, for me this was never about the money. It's about the common decency of being honest. More, it's about trust, a commodity CCP failed to consider in their idiotic flailing attempts at shoring up their bottom line.
--- Darth Gus One Terribly Dissatisfied Soon to Be Former Customer
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Kaptain Kruncher
|
Posted - 2008.12.11 07:20:00 -
[5798]
C'mon January- FTW! I bet you're still here come June.
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Darth Gus
Amarr Total Holdings Corporation
|
Posted - 2008.12.11 09:26:00 -
[5799]
Edited by: Darth Gus on 11/12/2008 09:27:06
Originally by: Kaptain Kruncher C'mon January- FTW! I bet you're still here come June.
What kind of bet are we talking about? A bet for currency, in which case I'll happily take your money? Or a gentlemen's bet in which case I'll happily play you for a fool?
As this thread has demonstrated, typically playing you for a fool is CCP's job. But in this one case, I'll gladly help them out a bit, pawn.
--- Darth Gus One Terribly Dissatisfied Soon to Be Former Customer
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Arakn1s
Amarr Aurora Cartel AAA Citizens
|
Posted - 2008.12.11 10:15:00 -
[5800]
Sc**w skill que, better give us the ability to train 2 chars on single account
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|
Ezoran DuBlaidd
|
Posted - 2008.12.11 11:27:00 -
[5801]
Edited by: Ezoran DuBlaidd on 11/12/2008 11:29:50
Originally by: Kaptain Kruncher C'mon January- FTW! I bet you're still here come June.
you're right, my single account is here. the others will remain "not" here probably for ever.
edit: by the by, why was un-subbed training never referred to as 'ghost training' until this nerf? all these years it was just called un-subbed training or some such thing. nothing ghostly about it, since it was promoted as a feature (probably to counter the rested training that so many other games implented down the line?)
seriously, in this string of idiotic decisions, what's the next thing going to be? about the only thing that hasn't been jacked is ooooooooo you have to be online and actively engaging in a skill in order for it's timer to progress?
please please please implement that one~!! |
Von Domiki
|
Posted - 2008.12.11 15:25:00 -
[5802]
Originally by: Madius
Too bad for them? They should be happy that they can progress at all while not playing, most MMOs - hell, most games, period - require you to actually be there doing things to progress.
If they don't want to pay, they don't get skill points. It's not rocket science.
*Doing things*, right. But in EVE, doing things gives me ISKs, not experience. I could kill 5 serpentis or 50 of them, but it's irrelevant to skill training speed. In other games you need actions to progress, in EVE you need time. Lots of it.
|
Von Domiki
|
Posted - 2008.12.11 15:30:00 -
[5803]
Originally by: Ezoran DuBlaidd Edited by: Ezoran DuBlaidd on 11/12/2008 11:29:50
Originally by: Kaptain Kruncher C'mon January- FTW! I bet you're still here come June.
you're right, my single account is here. the others will remain "not" here probably for ever.
edit: by the by, why was un-subbed training never referred to as 'ghost training' until this nerf? all these years it was just called un-subbed training or some such thing. nothing ghostly about it, since it was promoted as a feature (probably to counter the rested training that so many other games implented down the line?)
seriously, in this string of idiotic decisions, what's the next thing going to be? about the only thing that hasn't been jacked is ooooooooo you have to be online and actively engaging in a skill in order for it's timer to progress?
please please please implement that one~!!
"Do you have friends that might be interested in exploring the universe of EVE? If you have an active subscription, you can offer them an exclusive 21-day trial. For each one that subscribes, youÆll earn 30 free days of game time!". You can see where it's going - multi-level marketing.
|
Von Domiki
|
Posted - 2008.12.11 15:34:00 -
[5804]
Originally by: Lord Fitz There are many very smart people playing this game (and the rest), who don't take kindly to being treated like idiots.
"Do you have friends that might be interested in exploring the universe of EVE? If you have an active subscription, you can offer them an exclusive 21-day trial. For each one that subscribes, youÆll earn 30 free days of game time!".
Obviously CCP doesn't think there are very many smart people.
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Sassaniak
|
Posted - 2008.12.11 16:13:00 -
[5805]
I just want a skill que so i can train all those annoying 4 - 8 hour skills while im at school or work or sleep, nothing beyond that really, if i could get Exhumers 2 to start when i finish Electronics 4 then id be happy, its just that without excessive (in only my opinion) juggling I cant get many of these skills finished in less then a few days, without losing a few hours on either end, I'm not trying to train anything major, just the little stuff that could be finished in less then the time it takes me to get to class and back. dont really see a good reason why not for a que, but then of course im biased, someone had an arguement against ques about "having to wake up at 4am to switch skills so why shouldn't you", I say meh, i have multiple skills at varying ranges of completion cause they end at bad times for me and a skill que would just make it easy, nothing more then that. So please tell me why im wrong, in wanting something that makes it easier to play , and the eta on this,(like everything else) Is about 2.5 - 4 years (if ever) so dont worry if you dont want one
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Mr Jollys
Minmatar Night Theifs Apotheosis of Virtue
|
Posted - 2008.12.11 18:35:00 -
[5806]
CCP has some competition on the way in the space MMO genre;
Star Wars: The Old Republic http://www.swtor.com/
Star Trek Online http://www.startrekonline.com
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Atnal
|
Posted - 2008.12.11 18:50:00 -
[5807]
Originally by: Squirrrel Look, when are all you whiners - harping on about how CCP obviously don't give a damn about their customers - going to realise that CCP don't give a damn how you feel about this change, nor retaining you as customers?
When will you realise that rational business sense is for them to make this change regardless of how you feel because they can and because it's unfair on their bottom line. They don't give a damn if you all stop subscribing and just leave the game, spending your stupid a$$ whiner-money somewhere else, and making you pay for your previously free lunch at the same time? Do you not understand profit margins? Sheeesh.. None of you understand what it's like to run a business. You all act like you've never played Theme Park.
When will you realise that their reasoning for stating ghost training was too much of a load on their DB was to protect those people who DO pay, and because you're too stupid to understand the simplicity of the fact that too many alts are ghost trained for selling on and that maximising money is the only corporate aim? It was a white lie. The good kind. To protect you.
How many of you maggots sat staring at the login screen for hours on end, getting your free lunch and EveFix when your sub ran out; whilst you were laming it up abusing the ghost training bug?
So what if this used to be classed as a feature? They play the game too, they don't have time to iron out all the stupid things you want changed or what the game needs to have changed. It was only 5 years. You expect them to fix bugs when YOU want them to? Be thankful they give you free patches, let alone expansions. Eve isn't the same as any other game you know, they could easily get away with **** like that as this is the best internet spaceship game there is, if not best MMO.
Just pay, play and shut the hell up and roll with it. Only kids stamp their feet and complain. Adults suck it up or just leave. No one needs your so-called essential feedback. No one cares you're leaving. No one will care you're gone.
You just can't get stuff for free, the real world isn't like that, Eve isn't like that - even if you knew T20.
Seriously, you lot make me sick. I hope you all leave so I can enjoy this game in peace.
Adapt or die ftw phailers... etc.
I'd say I would have to agree on this. I completely don't mind at all that if you're not paying for a service then you shouldn't receive any benefit from it.
Quote: There was a way to progress a character in EVE without an active subscription
Well that seems to be a perfectly legit reason forceably stop training skills if you're not paying for the account.
http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm?game=14&feature=2349%2FGhost-Training-Interview&bhcp=1
Quote: For example: You could set your long term skills to train, un-sub from the game, re-sub some time later and have your training completed when you came back.
That sounds that cheating CCP to me.
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Carl Druffee
Minmatar
|
Posted - 2008.12.11 22:25:00 -
[5808]
After having encouraged players to get multiple accounts with these offers CCP has been running, they must have expected this... players find a way to get the most for their money.
Most of these unsubbed,-resubbed accounts are alt-accounts that are being used alternatively and to change gameplay from time to time.
Now after the change, the best CCP can hope for is that players will move all characters to one account and ditch the other accounts or sell off the characters before the account expires for one last time, getting some isk instead of a character and an occational change in play-style.
Worst case is that players dump the characters all together permanently and aeven their main accounts in rage. I haven't... yet.
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Squirrrel
Gallente Squirrrel Industries
|
Posted - 2008.12.11 23:46:00 -
[5809]
Edited by: Squirrrel on 11/12/2008 23:47:00
Originally by: Squirrrel Look, when are all you whiners - harping on about how CCP obviously don't give a damn about their customers - going to realise that CCP don't give a damn how you feel about this change, nor retaining you as customers?
etc etc
Originally by: Atnal
I'd say I would have to agree on this. I completely don't mind at all that if you're not paying for a service then you shouldn't receive any benefit from it.
Then you've either not read what I posted properly or failed to grasp it's true meaning. I expected as much from the majority of those chastising disatisifed customers in this thread though to be honest. (Even though, to be fair, your post is far more coherent and mature than a lot of the 'hav stuffz' bandwagonners.
Originally by: Atnal
Quote: There was a way to progress a character in EVE without an active subscription
Well that seems to be a perfectly legit reason forceably stop training skills if you're not paying for the account.
That wasn't their original statmenent of intent over the change though. They only eventually came to that conclusion after some pressure and backtracking.
Originally by: Atnal
Quote: For example: You could set your long term skills to train, un-sub from the game, re-sub some time later and have your training completed when you came back.
That sounds that cheating CCP to me. But in anycase I'm not going to go riot over something that doesn't affect me personally. To be honest I was a little more miffed at the GTC change than this.
It didn't to CCP for 5 years though, and they openly discussed it and the fact it was good to take a break, set a long skill running and come back. Are you seriously suggesting that for 5 years, with many games using bots/alts etc to supplement main accounts in so many different MMO's, it never one crossed CCP's collective minds that people might do this with alts? Did it never cross their mind that with character sales, people may well be selling off some of these characters? If they didn't, then I make no apologies for saying they are either hugely naive or as dumb as a bag of bricks.
Originally by: Atnal
Quote: In what other game can you cancel your account and still level up? How is it fair for someone who doesn't pay to skill up ? It's not
britzban mmorpg.com
^^^ Basically sums it up for me.
Which other game has skill/character levelling/training like EvE? What's your basis for comparison on this?
Some people stayed subbed to the game knowing that the feature was in Eve that they could cancel and continue to train one skill until resubbing. Would you think player-bases of other MMO's would likely take it as fair if WoW or any other standard-type levelling MMO suddenly employed a cap-limit where you could only gain one level a week, on only one character on the paid account regardless of how much you played?
Let's say that the official statement on that was due to something like, I don't know, database load issues, and then it changed to be a bit about fairness and balance to other players in addition to how it would generate the makers a little cash, and then seemed to mostly become about the cash.
Adapt or die... eh?
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Squirrrel
Gallente Squirrrel Industries
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Posted - 2008.12.12 00:40:00 -
[5810]
And while we're on the subject of old bugs:
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=945010&page=1
4 years? Oh dear.
We've even got good old Ranger1 over there, touching his toes in support as per-usual.
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Tasty Bit
Gallente UNITED STAR SYNDICATE
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Posted - 2008.12.12 02:35:00 -
[5811]
Originally by: Squirrrel And while we're on the subject of old bugs:
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=945010&page=1
4 years? Oh dear.
We've even got good old Ranger1 over there, touching his toes in support as per-usual.
I daren't read that link you posted. I'm done with this game. 12 perma-paid accounts down the swanny, laters. o7
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Ranger 1
Amarr Shiva Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2008.12.12 02:58:00 -
[5812]
Originally by: Squirrrel And while we're on the subject of old bugs:
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=945010&page=1
4 years? Oh dear.
We've even got good old Ranger1 over there, touching his toes in support as per-usual.
Hi Squirrrel, how's the girlfriend?
Still riding the dead horse I see.
===== * Now I know how George Washington felt when Napoleon bombed him at Pearl Harbor. - Beast Boy |
Squirrrel
Gallente Squirrrel Industries
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Posted - 2008.12.12 03:00:00 -
[5813]
Originally by: Tasty Bit
Originally by: Squirrrel And while we're on the subject of old bugs:
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=945010&page=1
4 years? Oh dear.
We've even got good old Ranger1 over there, touching his toes in support as per-usual.
I daren't read that link you posted. I'm done with this game. 12 perma-paid accounts down the swanny, laters. o7
In light of quiting, it's just another probable sweet pill. This one could even surpass the t20 debacle.
Recommended reading.
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Squirrrel
Gallente Squirrrel Industries
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Posted - 2008.12.12 03:03:00 -
[5814]
Originally by: Ranger 1
Originally by: Squirrrel And while we're on the subject of old bugs:
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=945010&page=1
4 years? Oh dear.
We've even got good old Ranger1 over there, touching his toes in support as per-usual.
Hi Squirrrel, how's the girlfriend?
Still riding the dead horse I see.
Are you inferring that I'm dating Lady Godiva, or just providing more evidence of your ignorance?
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Ranger 1
Amarr Shiva Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2008.12.12 03:12:00 -
[5815]
Neither my friend. Just pointing out that you are STILL full of crap and a bitter little muppet.
I've fed your pet thread enough though, however amusing it might be.
===== * Now I know how George Washington felt when Napoleon bombed him at Pearl Harbor. - Beast Boy |
Squirrrel
Gallente Squirrrel Industries
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Posted - 2008.12.12 03:16:00 -
[5816]
Originally by: Ranger 1 Neither my friend. Just pointing out that you are STILL full of crap and a bitter little muppet.
I've fed your pet thread enough though, however amusing it might be.
Uhuh. That must have hurt. Nevermind, run along. There's a sinking ship that is missing one of its rats.
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Jinx Barker
Caldari GFB Scientific
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Posted - 2008.12.12 04:27:00 -
[5817]
All I have to say is that while CCP concentrated on routing out the evil "Ghost Trainers" and their ilk, the 0.0 alliances have been exploiting the game. Perhaps if they spent more time on actually making the game better, than running after every last cent that's not nailed down, this would not have happened.
Personally, I see this as another sign of deteriorating CCP leadership in MMO market, something has happened to the whole team number of years ago that appears to have turned what is left into a bunch of witless yes men.
Good going, I can see where CCP's priorities lie.
::::Click The Signature For the Blog::::
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Reiisha
Splint Eye Probabilities Inc. Dawn of Transcendence
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Posted - 2008.12.12 10:14:00 -
[5818]
Jesus. 200 pages of people complaining how they can't play the game by not playing it anymore.
Psychiatrists would start drooling at this.
EVE History Wiki
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Bidermaier
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Posted - 2008.12.12 12:06:00 -
[5819]
Indeed. Its hilarious. I never suspected this was such a big deal for so many people. Join the Level IV club mates, and stop crying.
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Mint Royale
Gallente Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2008.12.12 14:50:00 -
[5820]
Edited by: Mint Royale on 12/12/2008 14:50:47
Originally by: Ranger 1 Neither my friend. Just pointing out that you are STILL full of crap and a bitter little muppet.
I've fed your pet thread enough though, however amusing it might be.
Yeah it sure is easy to call people whiners if you/your corp/your alliance has infinite ISK/infinite GTCs harvested from an exploit over 4 years. If I had infinite ISK/GTCs I suppose I'd write about the same stuff in order to keep the average casual player playing - mostly for giggles :)
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fried eggs
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.12.12 15:24:00 -
[5821]
Originally by: Reiisha Jesus. 200 pages of people complaining how they can't play the game by not playing it anymore.
Psychiatrists would start drooling at this.
And the educator that attempted to teach you reading comprehension skills would jump off a bridge. See, we can both make silly comments. Do you have anything else to add?
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Rooster Fish
UK Corp Mostly Harmless
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Posted - 2008.12.12 15:50:00 -
[5822]
Originally by: "CCP" Ghost Training was an unintended feature where unpaid accounts of EVE Online were able to continue training skills. While this allowed players to run multiple characters on a shoestring budget, in all effect, this was a bug.
I don't care that GT was disabled. Never used the feature. But it IS in the player guide.
So why lie now and say that it was unintended? What? Like we wouldn't make the connection?
I think this is what really irks people, not that GT isn't available any more. So there really is no point in berating people for being angry about this, because so little of the rage expressed here has to do with not being able to GT. It has to do with the fact that CCP doesn't even acknowledge it's own role in this and seems to have just blatantly lied in thier explanation.
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Tasty Bit
Gallente UNITED STAR SYNDICATE
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Posted - 2008.12.12 16:00:00 -
[5823]
Originally by: Rooster Fish
Originally by: "CCP" Ghost Training was an unintended feature where unpaid accounts of EVE Online were able to continue training skills. While this allowed players to run multiple characters on a shoestring budget, in all effect, this was a bug.
I don't care that GT was disabled. Never used the feature. But it IS in the player guide.
WAS in the player guide. "Was" and "player guide". They removed the feature from said guide when they decided it was no longer a feature. Oh, and wanted more cash.
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Rooster Fish
UK Corp Mostly Harmless
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Posted - 2008.12.12 16:11:00 -
[5824]
Originally by: Tasty Bit
Originally by: Rooster Fish
Originally by: "CCP" Ghost Training was an unintended feature where unpaid accounts of EVE Online were able to continue training skills. While this allowed players to run multiple characters on a shoestring budget, in all effect, this was a bug.
I don't care that GT was disabled. Never used the feature. But it IS in the player guide.
WAS in the player guide. "Was" and "player guide". They removed the feature from said guide when they decided it was no longer a feature. Oh, and wanted more cash.
Oh I know - but that's like saying "We lied about it being an intended feature, and now we're going to punish everyone who believed our lie and thought they were playing the game as it was intended to be played."
Jokes.
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Terces Yp's
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Posted - 2008.12.12 21:16:00 -
[5825]
Originally by: Arakn1s Sc**w skill que, better give us the ability to train 2 chars on single account
You understand how CCP promotes 'Power of Two' yes?
They certainly won't make any money implementing such a feature. Those folk who recently bought a second account to train another character... how potty would they go. This idea, not gonna happen.
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Tasty Bit
Gallente UNITED STAR SYNDICATE
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Posted - 2008.12.12 22:11:00 -
[5826]
Originally by: Terces Yp's
Originally by: Arakn1s Sc**w skill que, better give us the ability to train 2 chars on single account
You understand how CCP promotes 'Power of Two' yes?
They certainly won't make any money implementing such a feature. Those folk who recently bought a second account to train another character... how potty would they go. This idea, not gonna happen.
Indeed, never gonnae happen.
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fried eggs
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.12.13 05:09:00 -
[5827]
Originally by: Bidermaier Indeed. Its hilarious. I never suspected this was such a big deal for so many people. Join the Level IV club mates, and stop crying.
What?
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something somethingdark
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Posted - 2008.12.13 05:55:00 -
[5828]
ahh and that the gt disabling fkup wasnt the last time ccp didnt think ahead was yet again proved
i especialy liked this in the pos exploit threadnaught
Originally by: Kalib Stark Alchemy took time to develop, hence:
A: Alchemy was introduced as a response to a known exploit to balance market. --> CCP timetable claims are Fraudulent
B: Alchemy was introduced without foreknowledge of the exploit:
Do you believe that CCP introduced Alchemy without doing an in depth moon min market analysis? If yes --> CCP is negligent. If no --> Do you believe that such an analysis failed to uncover huge piles of rare mins from nothing? If yes --> CCP is inept. If no --> CCP has known from before the claimed date --> CCP timetable claims are Fraudulent.
It's called logic.
yet more stuff that makes me say: once upon a time a little company called CCP had a simply awesome idea and called it EVE unfortunatly from there it went downhill
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Talsha Talamar
Amarr Nebula Rasa Holdings Nebula Rasa
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Posted - 2008.12.13 21:46:00 -
[5829]
Originally by: Kalib Stark Alchemy took time to develop, hence:
A: Alchemy was introduced as a response to a known exploit to balance market. --> CCP timetable claims are Fraudulent
B: Alchemy was introduced without foreknowledge of the exploit:
Do you believe that CCP introduced Alchemy without doing an in depth moon min market analysis? If yes --> CCP is negligent. If no --> Do you believe that such an analysis failed to uncover huge piles of rare mins from nothing? If yes --> CCP is inept. If no --> CCP has known from before the claimed date --> CCP timetable claims are Fraudulent.
It's called logic.
Actually just for completeness sake, there is another possible alternative under B:
CCP became aware of the exploit during, the research on the moon mineral and related markets, while preparing the launch of alchemy...
Yet the combination of the subject of the "Ghost Training Affair" and the current exploit scandal, certainly did nothing to increase my enthusiasm.
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Squirrrel
Gallente Squirrrel Industries
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Posted - 2008.12.14 19:46:00 -
[5830]
Originally by: something somethingdark once upon a time a little company called CCP had a simply awesome idea and called it EVE unfortunatly from there it went downhill
So, so true.
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Jinx Barker
Caldari GFB Scientific
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Posted - 2008.12.14 19:57:00 -
[5831]
I think the massive and REAL exploiting of the game has taken precedent over the imaginary unfairness of Ghost Training.
::::Click The Signature For the Blog::::
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Squirrrel
Gallente Squirrrel Industries
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Posted - 2008.12.14 20:15:00 -
[5832]
Edited by: Squirrrel on 14/12/2008 20:16:34
Originally by: Jinx Barker I think the massive and REAL exploiting of the game has taken precedent over the imaginary unfairness of Ghost Training.
I would partially agree, however the lies that CCP spun over Ghost training were factual, the extent of the exploiting is still unclear at this stage and is likely to stay that way IMO.
That said, it would be almost impossible for CCP to play down the 4 year issue and it's likely to stick with the game which is beginning to collect scandals like a magnet.
To be honest, I'm thinking the GM's and CCP staff need to stop playing the game actively. I can't really see much benefit from their experience in playing the active game anyway - they can sit on the test server instead.
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OffBeaT
Caldari KaMiKaZes
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Posted - 2008.12.15 07:27:00 -
[5833]
Edited by: OffBeaT on 15/12/2008 07:34:02
Originally by: dropouthighschoolteacher Hi.
Unsubbed all my accounts.
I truly hope that CCP will understand my actions.
what kind of freaked out name is that... anyway to the point.
yeah, freaken right you should put a stop to this because its really getting stupid for this to be going on as long as it has. 2nd i am getting sick of seeing all these bought characters blobbing around with ships and skills they didn't put the time in to earn or the history they did not put into the game.
i gotta sit here and watch as i see players who have not put any history or time into this game fly ships i can only wait to do or have skills for. so they get to fast track the game get board then sell the guy again and it starts allover again. i say they should not have the right to enjoy this game this way as i don't and many others who put the time in and work a character over years as me and others have..
CCP SHOULD NOT OF EVER ALLOWED THE SALE OF ANY ACCOUNT!! This is wrong! wrong! wrong!
This is not making ccp any long term hard core players. they just end up with short term wannabees who might last a year or so until they get board and why not they can do anything at once without earning it.. i wont some TIME PLAYED BASE SKILLS that you cant buy and that are only earned buy time played in game..
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Squirrrel
Gallente Squirrrel Industries
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Posted - 2008.12.15 11:31:00 -
[5834]
Originally by: OffBeaT Edited by: OffBeaT on 15/12/2008 07:34:02
Originally by: dropouthighschoolteacher Hi.
Unsubbed all my accounts.
I truly hope that CCP will understand my actions.
what kind of freaked out name is that... anyway to the point.
yeah, freaken right you should put a stop to this because its really getting stupid for this to be going on as long as it has. 2nd i am getting sick of seeing all these bought characters blobbing around with ships and skills they didn't put the time in to earn or the history they did not put into the game.
i gotta sit here and watch as i see players who have not put any history or time into this game fly ships i can only wait to do or have skills for. so they get to fast track the game get board then sell the guy again and it starts allover again. i say they should not have the right to enjoy this game this way as i don't and many others who put the time in and work a character over years as me and others have..
CCP SHOULD NOT OF EVER ALLOWED THE SALE OF ANY ACCOUNT!! This is wrong! wrong! wrong!
This is not making ccp any long term hard core players. they just end up with short term wannabees who might last a year or so until they get board and why not they can do anything at once without earning it.. i wont some TIME PLAYED BASE SKILLS that you cant buy and that are only earned buy time played in game..
For the record, I don't like the idea of trading characters either.
CCP do not allow the sales of accounts by the way, only transfer of characters, and one could argue that more players will stick with the game longer if they have a higher SP character that they have transfered, rather than having to start from scratch and building up.
The system falls down somewhat though that the newer player will either have to have friend in game to give them ISK, or buy GTC's to get the in-game money to pay for the character - unless he begins the grind himself to get the ISK which would take some time.
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Kaijusan
Gallente gallach minig Corp New Eve Mining manufacturing Organisation
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Posted - 2008.12.15 13:54:00 -
[5835]
Did I miss the memo where Badgersmaker jumped ship from SWG to Eve? because this Dev Blog is exactly the same kind of total bull**** he spews over on SOE's forum.
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Gotrek Gurnisson
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.12.15 14:27:00 -
[5836]
Edited by: Gotrek Gurnisson on 15/12/2008 14:28:38 Edited by: Gotrek Gurnisson on 15/12/2008 14:28:20 NOTE: Missed this when it first occurred due to being inactive. However the fact that such a major change went through with 2 days warning with no comment in advance from players is worrying.....
Originally by: CCP But recently we have seen a surge in this behavior in a way that we were essentially supporting and maintaining a large number of customers that weren't paying us regular subscriptions.
The real question is then, why push the Power of Two offer down everyones throats quite so hard, KNOWING that people would be buying second accounts to ghost train with?? And why not announce such a major change 2-3 months ahead allowing people time to get used to the idea and make plans accordingly. 2 days is NOT enough warning.
Yes, I did buy a second account. But unlike a lot of people I designed my characters to be always logged in together and have complimentary skills (miner/hauler, combat/logistics) so this has not affected me.
However CCPs rigid commercial attitude with this matter has me seriously reconsidering my account status. I came back to EVE from Warhammer Online due to GOAs dodgy billing tactics (subscription options that reset themselves back to renewal after the customer selects non-renewal). Given that CCP already implicitly allow the trading of real cash for ISK (via GTC codes), then this just reinforces the perception that CCP are now as commercial and cut-throat as the competition (i.e. Blizzard), and that they are just paying lip service to the PAYING customers.
A lot of MMO providers now treat customers like sheep, relying on the fact that they wont all quit to just ride rough-shod over the herd. Sadly CCP seem to be increasingly following in the other MMO providers footsteps with this............
Add in the current sterling-euro exchange rate and Warhammer starts to get more and more attractive every day (as its currently about half the price per month).........
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Zebba
Gallente Northwind Research Agency
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Posted - 2008.12.15 14:47:00 -
[5837]
Originally by: Gotrek Gurnisson And why not announce such a major change 2-3 months ahead allowing people time to get used to the idea and make plans accordingly. 2 days is NOT enough warning.
This is exactly the topic of the thread and the focus of our complains. Too bad too few realize that.
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Rooster Fish
UK Corp Mostly Harmless
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Posted - 2008.12.15 16:08:00 -
[5838]
Originally by: Gotrek Gurnisson I came back to EVE from Warhammer Online due to GOAs dodgy billing tactics (subscription options that reset themselves back to renewal after the customer selects non-renewal). Given that CCP already implicitly allow the trading of real cash for ISK (via GTC codes), then this just reinforces the perception that CCP are now as commercial and cut-throat as the competition (i.e. Blizzard), and that they are just paying lip service to providing PAYING customers with decent service.
Really? Reinforces? Come on now. CCP has charged people for portrait swaps, character transfers and so on for ages, and has made a game so player-driven when it comes to itemization that countless subscribers gladly cough up real dough for GTCs that they just turn around and sell for ISK to keep ships in their hangars and ammo in their guns. CCP were always commercial and cut-throat - this is a business after all, not a free day-care service for the kids of employees at an office tower.
Anyway, coming from WAR you should know what genuine game development, community planning, billing, balancing and administrative fail is all about.
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Gotrek Gurnisson
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.12.15 16:45:00 -
[5839]
Originally by: Rooster Fish Really? Reinforces? Come on now. CCP has charged people for portrait swaps, character transfers and so on for ages, and has made a game so player-driven when it comes to itemization that countless subscribers gladly cough up real dough for GTCs that they just turn around and sell for ISK to keep ships in their hangars and ammo in their guns. CCP were always commercial and cut-throat - this is a business after all, not a free day-care service for the kids of employees at an office tower.
I can cope with paying to play a game, and for additional services provided to me by the vendor. However paying for a second account for a year and then CCP arbitrarily (and with no warning) suddenly limiting my use of that account (no more offline training or alternating account training) is a bit much. Its an attitude thing as much as anything else. And thair attitude over this stinks.
Its the equivalent of buying a ferrari, owning it for 6 months, and then finding out they changed the warantee so that you lose all cover if you ever go on a track day, or drive over 60mph.
Managing customer expectations is a basic part of maintining good customer relations............
Originally by: Rooster Fish Anyway, coming from WAR you should know what genuine game development, community planning, billing, balancing and administrative fail is all about.
Actually all my problems were with GOA. Mythic have developed a cracking, balanced game, and its light years ahead of WOW (compared with the same period after WOWs release). The GOA support however is laughable (as it was for DAOC).
Remember EVE has been in incremental development for many years, and as a result is very rewarding, enjoyable and (largely) bug free. However having a shiny game doesnt make up for lack of customer support. Nobody gained from the ghost training change except CCP who might make more money if players dont simply cancel the additional accounts.
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Kerfira
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Posted - 2008.12.15 19:11:00 -
[5840]
Originally by: Gotrek Gurnisson Its the equivalent of buying a ferrari, owning it for 6 months, and then finding out they changed the warantee so that you lose all cover if you ever go on a track day, or drive over 60mph.
You're not buying EVE, but renting the use of it. As such, it is plain common sense that when you stop paying, you don't get to use it.
Keep crying....
Originally by: CCP Wrangler EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
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Creed Demastikus
Bregan Dearthe Scalar Federation
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Posted - 2008.12.15 19:20:00 -
[5841]
i for one closed one of my sub account because of this "no more GT" well i have like 4 other acc which are i'm using nearly everyday the last one which is closed just for "experiment" Fully Amar Specialist Pilot that i want fr soo long with GT u can train those "long time needed skills" ppl can ask " we paying our bills why dont u?" im paying 4 account fee already.. and if ccp allowed me using this "feature" why shoundt i? than.. one day CCP became more Greedy... and want more money.. than i decide to close that acc (also one stupid bug just fired my idea of closing acc and goin to close few more maybe.. with current scandals goin on.. CCP lost alll my trust in their managing skills on Their game.. just a Sick Joke... "4 years of Bug Abuse..." tsk tsk
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Gotrek Gurnisson
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.12.15 19:21:00 -
[5842]
Edited by: Gotrek Gurnisson on 15/12/2008 19:23:05 Edited by: Gotrek Gurnisson on 15/12/2008 19:21:38
Originally by: Kerfira You're not buying EVE, but renting the use of it. As such, it is plain common sense that when you stop paying, you don't get to use it.
Actually I did buy an EVE account. And in fact you still can for €19.99 on this site. Its the monthly subscriptions to keep the account active that are the 'rent' part, but the game account is mine until I sell it or CCP withdraws the service altogether
Originally by: Kerfira Keep crying....
And you can just keep trolling.
If you had even read my earlier post you would see the ghost training issue hasnt affected me at all as I dont rely on it with my chars.
However CCP showing a complete lack of regard for PAYING customers before implementing a change that affects the entire in game population is a matter everyone should be concerned about.
As you said, Im paying CCP for a service (monthly subs). I do however expect some form of customer support - and not for them to start dismantling major game mechanics (training) without notice.
You obviously just have lower standards and expectations of good customer service than I do.....
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Von Domiki
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Posted - 2008.12.15 22:07:00 -
[5843]
Originally by: Squirrrel To be honest, I'm thinking the GM's and CCP staff need to stop playing the game actively. I can't really see much benefit from their experience in playing the active game anyway - they can sit on the test server instead.
I guess MBA-wielding stuff who makes decisions such as discussed here is, instead, too far from the gaming community and the game itself. Feedback between players and stuff becomes weaker and weaker with the growth of the company, guess.
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Soma Khan
|
Posted - 2008.12.15 22:09:00 -
[5844]
Originally by: Gotrek Gurnisson Edited by: Gotrek Gurnisson on 15/12/2008 19:23:05 Edited by: Gotrek Gurnisson on 15/12/2008 19:21:38
Originally by: Kerfira You're not buying EVE, but renting the use of it. As such, it is plain common sense that when you stop paying, you don't get to use it.
Actually I did buy an EVE account. And in fact you still can for Ç19.99 on this site. Its the monthly subscriptions to keep the account active that are the 'rent' part, but the game account is mine until I sell it or CCP withdraws the service altogether
This is yet another example of the complete and utter ignorance exhibited by the ghost-training whiners. Reading before signing is not for them. ___
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Squirrrel
Gallente Squirrrel Industries
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Posted - 2008.12.15 23:29:00 -
[5845]
Originally by: Gotrek Gurnisson
The GOA support however is laughable (as it was for DAOC).
QFT. Many European subscribers won't go near GOA again after that debacle and chose to play WAR on the US servers or not at all - CCP take note.
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Nannu Who
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Posted - 2008.12.15 23:41:00 -
[5846]
Originally by: OffBeaT
yeah, freaken right you should put a stop to this because its really getting stupid for this to be going on as long as it has. 2nd i am getting sick of seeing all these bought characters blobbing around with ships and skills they didn't put the time in to earn or the history they did not put into the game.
...blah blah... i wont some TIME PLAYED BASE SKILLS that you cant buy and that are only earned buy time played in game..
And how can any of this put a stop to people selling their characters on and purchasing another?
You know regardless of this training nerf, people will still purchase and sell their characters just as they have done in the past & there is no bad thing about it. It is good to know that you can have a value to your character giving all players added reward to the hard time you've put into them.
There are players in eve who treat avatars like used cars and when they want to give up driving a so 'n so type of ship or just stop all together they trade it in. Either for isk they then give to their mates, or they'll use it to buy another different type of pilot.
Regardless of whether there was a feature allowing you only specific skills to be trained up if you are in game only? totally not going to change a thing.
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Nannu Who
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Posted - 2008.12.15 23:51:00 -
[5847]
Originally by: Gotrek Gurnisson Given that CCP already implicitly allow the trading of real cash for ISK (via GTC codes), then this just reinforces the perception that CCP are now as commercial and cut-throat as the competition (i.e. Blizzard), and that they are just paying lip service to providing PAYING customers with decent service.
Add in the current sterling-euro exchange rate and Warhammer starts to get more and more attractive every day (as its currently about half the price per month).........
This isn't an attack at you, and I don't have experience with other MMORPG's, but you understand that eve is in actual fact the one game you don't have to pay a dime or nickel to play. I agree with the other issues you raised. But one comment raised an eyebrow.
Thanks to their GTC for ISK system, players who play the game can use in game currency to prolong their life in eve. I mean, isn't that pretty fantastic? You just use isk for your game time. Pretty sweet, and for that I shudder at the word that CCP are 'cut-throat' in their marketing approach in obtaining more revenue.
Smart eve players needn't pay a single $ bill to CCP.
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spazoxlabanias
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Posted - 2008.12.16 00:18:00 -
[5848]
yez CCP we understand your pure means... 70% suden price raise in GTC and also this... ------> PROFIT!
translation of the Dev Blog 'Why ghost training was disabled.' : we are a company and we try to maximize our profit no matter what
but the most funny was the thing that was writted: 'it's unfair for active players'... because of course players want to be active for trainning skills.. not for actually playing!!!... characterize it now as a bug after sooo many years of (maybe) tolerance doesnt sound so persuasive.. or does it? ;p
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Roto Rooter
|
Posted - 2008.12.16 01:16:00 -
[5849]
Originally by: Nannu Who ...you understand that eve is in actual fact the one game you don't have to pay a dime or nickel to play...players who play the game can use in game currency to prolong their life in eve. I mean, isn't that pretty fantastic? You just use isk for your game time. Pretty sweet, and for that I shudder at the word that CCP are 'cut-throat' in their marketing approach in obtaining more revenue.
Smart eve players needn't pay a single $ bill to CCP.
You do realize, don't you, that the GTCs bought by players for ISK first have to be bought by other players for RL money, right? Right? All that CCP cares about is that each GTC is fully paid for in RL money before it ever goes on the in-game market for ISK. The fact that it may be traded to another player doesn't change the fact that it was paid for.
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Squirrrel
Gallente Squirrrel Industries
|
Posted - 2008.12.16 03:32:00 -
[5850]
Originally by: Nannu Who
Originally by: Gotrek Gurnisson Given that CCP already implicitly allow the trading of real cash for ISK (via GTC codes), then this just reinforces the perception that CCP are now as commercial and cut-throat as the competition (i.e. Blizzard), and that they are just paying lip service to providing PAYING customers with decent service.
Add in the current sterling-euro exchange rate and Warhammer starts to get more and more attractive every day (as its currently about half the price per month).........
This isn't an attack at you, and I don't have experience with other MMORPG's, but you understand that eve is in actual fact the one game you don't have to pay a dime or nickel to play. I agree with the other issues you raised. But one comment raised an eyebrow.
Thanks to their GTC for ISK system, players who play the game can use in game currency to prolong their life in eve. I mean, isn't that pretty fantastic? You just use isk for your game time. Pretty sweet, and for that I shudder at the word that CCP are 'cut-throat' in their marketing approach in obtaining more revenue.
Smart eve players needn't pay a single $ bill to CCP.
Isn't it pretty fantastic that some people can accumulate wealth on varying levels in-game by using their credit card?
Isn't it pretty fantastic that you can use that wealth (produced by GTC sales or purely in-game) to purchase a character someone else spent the money on training?
Isn't it pretty fantastic that RMT's are not permitted despite this?
Also, you do realise that EvE is (afaik) the one MMO that you can't drastically increase your levelling/training time?
They created the rod for their own back, and now are seemingly the ones crying that it got abused. Go figure.
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OffBeaT
Caldari KaMiKaZes
|
Posted - 2008.12.16 04:02:00 -
[5851]
Edited by: OffBeaT on 16/12/2008 04:02:34
Originally by: Nannu Who
Originally by: OffBeaT
yeah, freak en right you should put a stop to this because its really getting stupid for this to be going on as long as it has. 2nd i am getting sick of seeing all these bought characters blobbing around with ships and skills they didn't put the time in to earn or the history they did not put into the game.
...blah blah... i wont some TIME PLAYED BASE SKILLS that you cant buy and that are only earned buy time played in game..
And how can any of this put a stop to people selling their characters on and purchasing another?
You know regardless of this training nerf, people will still purchase and sell their characters just as they have done in the past & there is no bad thing about it. It is good to know that you can have a value to your character giving all players added reward to the hard time you've put into them.
There are players in eve who treat avatars like used cars and when they want to give up driving a so 'n so type of ship or just stop all together they trade it in. Either for isk they then give to their mates, or they'll use it to buy another different type of pilot.
Regardless of whether there was a feature allowing you only specific skills to be trained up if you are in game only? totally not going to change a thing.
wannabee gamers!
How is your paid for character doing.. you must only play on the weekneds or somthing. this is not a card trading game nore is it some kind of wow game its eve and eve means put your time in hard core, its not a 10min game.
2nd: yeah, it would put a stop to having to many floating accounts out there to compete against for me.
Originally by: Nannu Who
Regardless of whether there was a feature allowing you only specific skills to be trained up if you are in game only? totally not going to change a thing.
3rd: yes it would it would make my time in this game worth something and my guy different on a skill bases then your trading accounts that you didn't play.
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Ezoran DuBlaidd
|
Posted - 2008.12.16 07:07:00 -
[5852]
Edited by: Ezoran DuBlaidd on 16/12/2008 07:08:33 Edited by: Ezoran DuBlaidd on 16/12/2008 07:07:31
Originally by: Squirrrel
Originally by: Nannu Who
Originally by: Gotrek Gurnisson Given that CCP already implicitly allow the trading of real cash for ISK (via GTC codes), then this just reinforces the perception that CCP are now as commercial and cut-throat as the competition (i.e. Blizzard), and that they are just paying lip service to providing PAYING customers with decent service.
Add in the current sterling-euro exchange rate and Warhammer starts to get more and more attractive every day (as its currently about half the price per month).........
This isn't an attack at you, and I don't have experience with other MMORPG's, but you understand that eve is in actual fact the one game you don't have to pay a dime or nickel to play. I agree with the other issues you raised. But one comment raised an eyebrow.
Thanks to their GTC for ISK system, players who play the game can use in game currency to prolong their life in eve. I mean, isn't that pretty fantastic? You just use isk for your game time. Pretty sweet, and for that I shudder at the word that CCP are 'cut-throat' in their marketing approach in obtaining more revenue.
Smart eve players needn't pay a single $ bill to CCP.
Isn't it pretty fantastic that some people can accumulate wealth on varying levels in-game by using their credit card?
Isn't it pretty fantastic that you can use that wealth (produced by GTC sales or purely in-game) to purchase a character someone else spent the money on training?
Isn't it pretty fantastic that RMT's are not permitted despite this?
Also, you do realise that EvE is (afaik) the one MMO that you can't drastically increase your levelling/training time?
They created the rod for their own back, and now are seemingly the ones crying that it got abused. Go figure.
weird how their rod was a boasted-about feature for all these years... something to compete with the rested experience you gain in games like wow and even (now) COx.
but, no really, they want you to have multiple accounts. isn't everyone signing up for the power of 2, so you can have a brand new account to team up with your current account? cmon now, 6 months up front... it's a deal~!!
who knows; but ozzie's been the prince of darkness since nineteen seventy nine~!!
edit: oh yeah, stop calling it ghost training and put it back in.
edit 2: and get rid of whomever made this plan and the plan with the gtcs. and whomever put that guy in charge of making decisions. and whatever other ******ed decisions have been made this year -- boot that guy too, especially if it's a different guy than the others. |
Ezoran DuBlaidd
|
Posted - 2008.12.16 07:18:00 -
[5853]
Originally by: Kerfira
Originally by: Gotrek Gurnisson Its the equivalent of buying a ferrari, owning it for 6 months, and then finding out they changed the warantee so that you lose all cover if you ever go on a track day, or drive over 60mph.
You're not buying EVE, but renting the use of it. As such, it is plain common sense that when you stop paying, you don't get to use it.
Keep crying....
um, actually, if you read the official website all those years, the inactive account training was a stated feature... so it is plain common sense that a game should be able to have stated features working as intended.
Keep crying.... |
Nannu Who
|
Posted - 2008.12.16 07:39:00 -
[5854]
Originally by: Roto Rooter
Originally by: Nannu Who ...you understand that eve is in actual fact the one game you don't have to pay a dime or nickel to play...players who play the game can use in game currency to prolong their life in eve. I mean, isn't that pretty fantastic? You just use isk for your game time. Pretty sweet, and for that I shudder at the word that CCP are 'cut-throat' in their marketing approach in obtaining more revenue.
Smart eve players needn't pay a single $ bill to CCP.
You do realize, don't you, that the GTCs bought by players for ISK first have to be bought by other players for RL money, right? Right? All that CCP cares about is that each GTC is fully paid for in RL money before it ever goes on the in-game market for ISK. The fact that it may be traded to another player doesn't change the fact that it was paid for.
Your kiddin right!?!
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Squirrrel
Gallente Squirrrel Industries
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Posted - 2008.12.16 10:22:00 -
[5855]
Originally by: Nannu Who
Originally by: Roto Rooter
Originally by: Nannu Who ...you understand that eve is in actual fact the one game you don't have to pay a dime or nickel to play...players who play the game can use in game currency to prolong their life in eve. I mean, isn't that pretty fantastic? You just use isk for your game time. Pretty sweet, and for that I shudder at the word that CCP are 'cut-throat' in their marketing approach in obtaining more revenue.
Smart eve players needn't pay a single $ bill to CCP.
You do realize, don't you, that the GTCs bought by players for ISK first have to be bought by other players for RL money, right? Right? All that CCP cares about is that each GTC is fully paid for in RL money before it ever goes on the in-game market for ISK. The fact that it may be traded to another player doesn't change the fact that it was paid for.
Your kiddin right!?!
I think there are just crossed-purposes at work here.
Your orginal point was purely that EvE is great in that if you are smart about your gameplay you don't have to pay from your own wallet to play correct?
I assume that Roto was merely pointing out in the context of this thread that CCP are still getting the money off those smart players.
I still maintain that the GTC factor and character transfers are far from perfect due to the ability to manipulate and abuse the system. Abuse it in the same manner that unsubbed training was I would wager.
Maybe it will eventually come to pass that GTC's and character transfers were unintended features and actually bugs too?
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Tasty Bit
Gallente UNITED STAR SYNDICATE
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Posted - 2008.12.16 13:10:00 -
[5856]
Originally by: Squirrrel
Originally by: Nannu Who
Originally by: Roto Rooter
Originally by: Nannu Who ...you understand that eve is in actual fact the one game you don't have to pay a dime or nickel to play...players who play the game can use in game currency to prolong their life in eve. I mean, isn't that pretty fantastic? You just use isk for your game time. Pretty sweet, and for that I shudder at the word that CCP are 'cut-throat' in their marketing approach in obtaining more revenue.
Smart eve players needn't pay a single $ bill to CCP.
You do realize, don't you, that the GTCs bought by players for ISK first have to be bought by other players for RL money, right? Right? All that CCP cares about is that each GTC is fully paid for in RL money before it ever goes on the in-game market for ISK. The fact that it may be traded to another player doesn't change the fact that it was paid for.
Your kiddin right!?!
I think there are just crossed-purposes at work here.
Your orginal point was purely that EvE is great in that if you are smart about your gameplay you don't have to pay from your own wallet to play correct?
I assume that Roto was merely pointing out in the context of this thread that CCP are still getting the money off those smart players.
I still maintain that the GTC factor and character transfers are far from perfect due to the ability to manipulate and abuse the system. Abuse it in the same manner that unsubbed training was I would wager.
Maybe it will eventually come to pass that GTC's and character transfers were unintended features and actually bugs too?
If CCCP can make more money by changing those features, then yes, they will be deemed "bugs" and removed.
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Kerfira
|
Posted - 2008.12.16 13:24:00 -
[5857]
Edited by: Kerfira on 16/12/2008 13:24:47
Originally by: Ezoran DuBlaidd
Originally by: Kerfira
Originally by: Gotrek Gurnisson Its the equivalent of buying a ferrari, owning it for 6 months, and then finding out they changed the warantee so that you lose all cover if you ever go on a track day, or drive over 60mph.
You're not buying EVE, but renting the use of it. As such, it is plain common sense that when you stop paying, you don't get to use it.
Keep crying....
um, actually, if you read the official website all those years, the inactive account training was a stated feature... so it is plain common sense that a game should be able to have stated features working as intended.
Keep crying....
I'm not the one who's been crying for 2 months now
At one point it was also possible to have multiple MWD drives. It was possible to mount Cruise Launchers on Kestrels. etc. etc.
CCP had a perfectly good reasons for removing those, and perfectly good reason to remove this feature too (that too many people were starting to abuse it), and they were FULLY in their right to do so (read the EULA you've agreed to).
As such, your complaint is really that you were stupid enough to sign that EULA without reading it. However, you did so voluntarily and without protest!
If you expected the world to stay static, you were possibly mistaken in that....
PS: This is probably going to go down in history as the longest group cry ever! I mean, the same 10-20 people continuing to reinforce each others sense of righteous anger is hilarious and the cause of much laughter
Originally by: CCP Wrangler EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
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Roto Rooter
|
Posted - 2008.12.16 16:35:00 -
[5858]
Originally by: Kerfira I'm not the one who's been crying for 2 months now
The only posts you have made in this thread have been in the role of CCP fanboi / apologist. You have said nothing of substance. You have only contributed noise. OTOH, critics of the unsubbed training nerf have posted detailed explanations of their positions.
Originally by: Kerfira At one point it was also possible to have multiple MWD drives. It was possible to mount Cruise Launchers on Kestrels. etc. etc.
So what? Balancing ships and fittings is an entirely different matter than changing a basic game mechanic regarding training, and especially when the change is almost certain to hurt CCP financially, in contradiction to their most likely motivation in doing it.
Originally by: Kerfira CCP had a perfectly good reasons for removing those, and perfectly good reason to remove this feature too (that too many people were starting to abuse it),
AFAIK CCP has made no definitive statements about unsubbed training being abused, and certainly has shed no light on how it might have been abused. They only said that they noticed an increase in unsubbed training, and in saying that they gave no indication of having investigated it and gave no indication of having grasped the seasonal effect (ppl going back to school) nor the obvious effect the worldwide economic crisis has almost certainly had on decisions of many ppl about discretionary spending.
Originally by: Kerfira and they were FULLY in their right to do so (read the EULA you've agreed to).
You consistently ignore what has been posted in this thread. No one disputes CCP's power to change their own game. Just because it's their game doesn't mean we have to like every decision they make and doesn't mean we have to keep supporting them with our RL money if they **** us off.
Originally by: Kerfira As such, your complaint is really that you were stupid enough to sign that EULA without reading it. However, you did so voluntarily and without protest!
You still insist on pretending that you don't get it. You have no excuse, though, as many detailed explanations have been posted in this thread. Nothing about a EULA or TOS requires customers to be pleased with any action the game operator takes. Unless you work for CCP, which we have to consider as a real possibility, some day CCP may damage something really important to you, and you may become enraged, reduce your paid accounts, or leave the game. It's amazing that you can't see that, unless of course you do work for CCP in some capacity.
Originally by: Kerfira If you expected the world to stay static, you were possibly mistaken in that....
Everything about this has been explained already. There is no point in trying to repeat it in a vain effort to convince an obvious fanboi.
Originally by: Kerfira PS: This is probably going to go down in history as the longest group cry ever! I mean, the same 10-20 people continuing to reinforce each others sense of righteous anger is hilarious and the cause of much laughter
It's not a cry. If you had actually followed the entire thread, and the locked thread that preceded it, you would have seen large numbers of ppl declaring their decisions to reduce their paid accounts and/or leave the game. You may discount those posts, but the numbers of them and the tone of the messages are impressive.
Following the unsubbed training nerf the weekly peak online population declined for three weeks, until Quantum Rise. Then the peak rose for four weeks. Then Yet Another Eve Scandal arose, confusing any interpretation of the stats. This week the peak population was down by over 2,500, and again shows a net decline from the week before the unsubbed training nerf.
We can expect the full effect of the outrage over the unsubbed training nerf and how it was handled to be felt over the full year following the nerf, with the greatest effect around the 2-3 month point.
-6 accounts atm.
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8Z 6
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Posted - 2008.12.16 16:39:00 -
[5859]
Edited by: 8Z 6 on 16/12/2008 16:40:21 You need to stop posting. That is unless your entire purpose is to show the world your cluelessness and want to continue sharing the most amazing display of ignorance and idiocity to ever be publicly displayed in all the history of ignorance and idiocity.
You havent made a single valid reply to any post youve responded to. The universe would be a better place without you.
EDIT: this was directed at kir-whateverhisnameis
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Roto Rooter
|
Posted - 2008.12.16 16:45:00 -
[5860]
Originally by: Nannu Who
Originally by: Roto Rooter
Originally by: Nannu Who ...you understand that eve is in actual fact the one game you don't have to pay a dime or nickel to play...players who play the game can use in game currency to prolong their life in eve. I mean, isn't that pretty fantastic? You just use isk for your game time. Pretty sweet, and for that I shudder at the word that CCP are 'cut-throat' in their marketing approach in obtaining more revenue.
Smart eve players needn't pay a single $ bill to CCP.
You do realize, don't you, that the GTCs bought by players for ISK first have to be bought by other players for RL money, right? Right? All that CCP cares about is that each GTC is fully paid for in RL money before it ever goes on the in-game market for ISK. The fact that it may be traded to another player doesn't change the fact that it was paid for.
Your kiddin right!?!
Why would I be kidding? Every GTC used in the game is bought for real life money before it is applied to an account or sold in-game to be applied to someone else's account. CCP gets the money regardless, and gets it up front. So yes, players can pay their game time with ISK, but only because someone else paid RL money first.
Also, without an unusual source of ISK, it is extremely difficult for solo players to generate enough ISK to pay their game time by buying GTCs in-game. Try it sometime. You can do it if you don't mind being online every day, mining day in and day out, only to see all your ISK go to buying the GTC for your next month. That only works for ppl with much more free time than money, and for ppl who have some kind of ISK-generating trick working for them.
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Spectre Wolf
Caldari Spectre Corporation
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Posted - 2008.12.16 17:12:00 -
[5861]
Ghost training was one of the reasons I stuck with this game for so long. I was under the impression that it was in-game by design and as a single character player, it gave me the opportunity to play for the time that I paid, and then the time to take a much needed break, to keep me coming back. Unfortunately, I didn't know of this before I renewed this morning. Claiming that ghost training is/was a bug is like claiming there are WMD's in Iraq, and I think that everyone realizes the truth in that. I understand that this was a business decision and some are gonna argue the EULA agreement, but I'm now beginning to think that doing this was planned all along which makes me think of a tactic called "bait and switch". I know that a majority of the people could really care less about this writing, but being able to voice my disappointment in CCP is all that I really care about.
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Squirrrel
Gallente Squirrrel Industries
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Posted - 2008.12.16 22:20:00 -
[5862]
Originally by: Kerfira
I'm not the one who's been crying for 2 months now
At one point it was also possible to have multiple MWD drives. It was possible to mount Cruise Launchers on Kestrels. etc. etc.
CCP had a perfectly good reasons for removing those, and perfectly good reason to remove this feature too (that too many people were starting to abuse it), and they were FULLY in their right to do so (read the EULA you've agreed to). As such, your complaint is really that you were stupid enough to sign that EULA without reading it. However, you did so voluntarily and without protest! If you expected the world to stay static, you were possibly mistaken in that....
PS: This is probably going to go down in history as the longest group cry ever! I mean, the same 10-20 people continuing to reinforce each others sense of righteous anger is hilarious and the cause of much laughter
lol. Seriously, no one can be THIS ignorant. Do you actually read any of the responses to your posts? If you'd like me to point out once more for you where you seem to have ignored that we all know CCP can change mechanics and features due to EULA, then I could, however I really don't see the point.
Thanks for bumping us toward 200 - That surely can be your only goal.
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Deviana Sevidon
Gallente Panta-Rhei United Front Alliance
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Posted - 2008.12.16 22:53:00 -
[5863]
Edited by: Deviana Sevidon on 16/12/2008 22:53:47 Please continue posting, you will make it to page 200, I am proud of you.
On a serious note. Yes the ghost training was most likely a bug, a bug that was left alone for more then 5 years and that worked to the benefit of some players. At one time this bug was declared a feature by CCP.
This is all correct. But it is also a fact that the number of people that used the "feature" increased over time and that this is rather useful when training Alts on high-ranking Level 5 Skills.
Now CCP removed the Bug/Feature and it is within their right to do so. They can make any change they want to their game and in the hard reality it does not matter all that much what you want, because CCP already decided to do so.
The only thing you get with your money is access to the game-server and all the features that CCP provides you. They can add a feature that you may like/dislike or they can remove a feature that you like/dislike, but the decision is not yours. The only decision for you is, if you want to continue to pay for access to the game server, as it is provided by CCP, or if you want to terminate your account.
There is no in-between. Take it or leave it.
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Squirrrel
Gallente Squirrrel Industries
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Posted - 2008.12.16 23:06:00 -
[5864]
Originally by: Deviana Sevidon
Now CCP removed the Bug/Feature and it is within their right to do so. They can make any change they want to their game and in the hard reality it does not matter all that much what you want, because CCP already decided to do so.
The only thing you get with your money is access to the game-server and all the features that CCP provides you. They can add a feature that you may like/dislike or they can remove a feature that you like/dislike, but the decision is not yours.
No, really? Where are you getting all this from?
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Deviana Sevidon
Gallente Panta-Rhei United Front Alliance
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Posted - 2008.12.16 23:24:00 -
[5865]
I will just quote something from the Eula in response, but all who complain should have read it themselves in advance.
Quote: Upon establishing a valid Account, and subject to your continued compliance with the EULA, CCP grants you a limited, non-exclusive, revocable license to access the System, and to access and use the Game Content and User Content (each as defined below), in order to play EVE online.
Quote: CCP may update, upgrade or otherwise enhance the Software at any time, in its sole discretion, without obligation to you. Periodically, CCP will require all users to migrate to new releases of the Software in order to continue accessing the System and playing EVE.
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Tasty Bit
Gallente UNITED STAR SYNDICATE
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Posted - 2008.12.16 23:34:00 -
[5866]
And evidentally you never read the thread, so your post doesn't warrant a reply (this aside).
thxtho'
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Last Wolf
Umbra Wing
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Posted - 2008.12.17 00:08:00 -
[5867]
I think they should have just removed it without telling anyone.
Now THAT would have been hilarious. Besides, I'm never gonna give you up, never gonna let you down |
Squirrrel
Gallente Squirrrel Industries
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Posted - 2008.12.17 00:16:00 -
[5868]
Originally by: Deviana Sevidon I will just quote something from the Eula in response, but all who complain should have read it themselves in advance.
Quote: Upon establishing a valid Account, and subject to your continued compliance with the EULA, CCP grants you a limited, non-exclusive, revocable license to access the System, and to access and use the Game Content and User Content (each as defined below), in order to play EVE online.
Quote: CCP may update, upgrade or otherwise enhance the Software at any time, in its sole discretion, without obligation to you. Periodically, CCP will require all users to migrate to new releases of the Software in order to continue accessing the System and playing EVE.
Thanks.
So glad that the EULA isn't under question or the real point of contention.
Phew!
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OffBeaT
Caldari KaMiKaZes
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Posted - 2008.12.17 01:42:00 -
[5869]
yea, ccp is doing the right think in this there is to many floating accounts now in eve + why should they get to cash in on five accounts they only payed half on and ccp lose on it.
pay you cheap skates and stop crying. ccp needs the coin an i need a better eve that the cash will bring..
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Squirrrel
Gallente Squirrrel Industries
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Posted - 2008.12.17 01:46:00 -
[5870]
Originally by: OffBeaT yea, ccp is doing the right think in this there is to many floating accounts now in eve + why should they get to cash in on five accounts they only payed half on and ccp lose on it.
pay you cheap skates and stop crying. ccp needs the coin an i need a better eve that the cash will bring..
Oh god, here's another one!
Kamikaze..? You missed the target.
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Tasty Bit
Gallente UNITED STAR SYNDICATE
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Posted - 2008.12.17 03:08:00 -
[5871]
Originally by: OffBeaT yea, ccp is doing the right think in this there is to many floating accounts now in eve + why should they get to cash in on five accounts they only payed half on and ccp lose on it.
pay you cheap skates and stop crying. ccp needs the coin an i need a better eve that the cash will bring..
Assuming it'll bring in more cash. Which, in my case (and I imagine many others), categorically won't be the case. So let's say for the sake of argument that it brings in less, does that make it such a tremendous idea?
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8Z 6
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Posted - 2008.12.17 04:59:00 -
[5872]
Originally by: OffBeaT yea, ccp is doing the right think in this there is to many floating accounts now in eve + why should they get to cash in on five accounts they only payed half on and ccp lose on it.
pay you cheap skates and stop crying. ccp needs the coin an i need a better eve that the cash will bring..
Another brilliant observation from the clueless commandos. Youre very astute for someone who seems to be getting his cluelessness from the same source as that kerfy clown.
I dont know about any other subscribers, but I can speak for myself in knowing that cccp has lost quite a bit of 'coin' from me since not only have i not renewed the multiple accounts that i had in ghost training, but a couple that were support chars to the ghost train-ees were not renewed. How does that figure into youre economic theories there, Mr Greenspan?
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fried eggs
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.12.17 05:29:00 -
[5873]
Edited by: fried eggs on 17/12/2008 05:31:37
Originally by: Deviana Sevidon I will just quote something from the Eula in response, but all who complain should have read it themselves in advance.
Quote: Upon establishing a valid Account, and subject to your continued compliance with the EULA, CCP grants you a limited, non-exclusive, revocable license to access the System, and to access and use the Game Content and User Content (each as defined below), in order to play EVE online.
Quote: CCP may update, upgrade or otherwise enhance the Software at any time, in its sole discretion, without obligation to you. Periodically, CCP will require all users to migrate to new releases of the Software in order to continue accessing the System and playing EVE.
God damn you are smart Deviana. I can't believe no one else was smart enough to quote the EULA in this thread. Shocking really. Wow, you are smart. Smart. Smart. Quick. Fast. Smart. Really smart...How many free days did you get when you signed up? Feel cheated now dumb ass?
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ViolenTUK
Gallente Vindicated Exiles V.I.R.A.L.
|
Posted - 2008.12.17 10:59:00 -
[5874]
Originally by: Kerfira I'm not the one who's been crying for 2 months now
You have no clue what you are talking about. YOU are the one who is crying.
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Squirrrel
Gallente Squirrrel Industries
|
Posted - 2008.12.17 11:12:00 -
[5875]
Originally by: 8Z 6 Another brilliant observation from the clueless commandos.
I think that one will stick. I love that.
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Becham
|
Posted - 2008.12.17 16:02:00 -
[5876]
Has the REASON people were induced to "ghost train" been considered? I mean really .... a single skill that takes 6 months to train? I'm all for paying to play, but SRSLY, maybe some of the training times should be looked at. And I /sign the skill queue petition.
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fried eggs
Caldari
|
Posted - 2008.12.17 16:35:00 -
[5877]
Originally by: Squirrrel
Originally by: 8Z 6 Another brilliant observation from the clueless commandos.
I think that one will stick. I love that.
Same here.
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8Z 6
|
Posted - 2008.12.17 18:06:00 -
[5878]
Originally by: Becham Has the REASON people were induced to "ghost train" been considered? I mean really .... a single skill that takes 6 months to train? I'm all for paying to play, but SRSLY, maybe some of the training times should be looked at. And I /sign the skill queue petition.
actually, the titan skill is one of the skills with the highest rank and it was only something like 68 days or some such for one of my ghost train-ees. with that in mind, the longest someone would be able to go if they were taking advantage of 'ghost training' is roughly 70 days then would need to renew for a 30-day subscription |
Becham
|
Posted - 2008.12.17 18:16:00 -
[5879]
I don't know, I'm a noob as things go. I was reading in this thread that capital ship building V takes 180 days.
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8Z 6
|
Posted - 2008.12.17 20:52:00 -
[5880]
Originally by: Becham I don't know, I'm a noob as things go. I was reading in this thread that capital ship building V takes 180 days.
Maybe with minimal learning skills but its the same rank as titan and outpost construction. The alt i used to train cap ship construction V (yes, yet another separate ghost-training alt) took only about 70-ish days, give or take. I dont remember exactly.
Getting off topic somewhat, I just checked my out-of-game email and discovered a mail from cccp advertising a 5-day promotion for returning to the game. There were several, though not all, of my accounts listed on the same mail so cccp is able to tell to a degree how many accounts belong to the same person. I sent a mail in response about why i havent reactivated those accounts and how disgusted i am at the loss of 'ghost training' (amongst other things)but i dont expect either a response or the slightest care from cccp. As I said in the email i sent, make 'ghost training' a usable feature again and ill reactivate the accounts.
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Fawziyyah
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Posted - 2008.12.17 20:56:00 -
[5881]
And so CCP asks...
Please, please, come back... YOUR SHIP AWAITS YOU - Reunite with your corp mates and your buddies for free... we will give you 5 days free for you to logon again... Oh.. by the way... did you know that you can set a new skill while you are at it?
Nice marketing... almost as good as unsubed training
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Katanaha
Gallente The Collective Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2008.12.17 21:23:00 -
[5882]
currently i have three accounts and now i will only pay for one _______________________
orly?! |
OffBeaT
Caldari KaMiKaZes
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Posted - 2008.12.18 05:41:00 -
[5883]
Edited by: OffBeaT on 18/12/2008 05:43:30
Originally by: Squirrrel
Originally by: OffBeaT yea, ccp is doing the right think in this there is to many floating accounts now in eve + why should they get to cash in on five accounts they only payed half on and ccp lose on it.
pay you cheap skates and stop crying. ccp needs the coin an i need a better eve that the cash will bring..
Oh god, here's another one!
Kamikaze..? You missed the target.
a real gang banger like you would know right! ill see you soon ! i haven't forgotten you..
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Tivookz
Caldari IMPERIAL SENATE
|
Posted - 2008.12.18 09:04:00 -
[5884]
Thanks for the free 5 days CCP, it won't make me re-subscribe though.
I've been monitoring the topic while all my accounts have been inactive and to be honest I didn't think I'd get the chance to post again :P
My concern is still the same: reconsider ghost training.
Before this change I felt the urge to resubscribe to reap the riches from the skills that finished while I had to be away for a while.
Now that I return from my missions around the globe I don't feel the need to subscribe at all, and I feel the reason for that is the lack of ghost training, I simply don't have something nice waiting for me. It's just like how it was when I left.
Also, the fact that you've given all your players 5 free days to get into the game again only proves to me that you've lost a substantial amount of subscribers. Maybe not main accounts because the average amount of people online is still almost the same, however I feel that you might have lost alot of alt accounts though.
Tiv __________________________________________________
Hating Cash Craving Productions since oct 15th 2008 |
Squirrrel
Gallente Squirrrel Industries
|
Posted - 2008.12.18 09:49:00 -
[5885]
Originally by: OffBeaT Edited by: OffBeaT on 18/12/2008 05:43:30
Originally by: Squirrrel
Originally by: OffBeaT yea, ccp is doing the right think in this there is to many floating accounts now in eve + why should they get to cash in on five accounts they only payed half on and ccp lose on it.
pay you cheap skates and stop crying. ccp needs the coin an i need a better eve that the cash will bring..
Oh god, here's another one!
Kamikaze..? You missed the target.
a real gang banger like you would know right! ill see you soon ! i haven't forgotten you..
blah blah blah...
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Benedic
The Aftermath
|
Posted - 2008.12.18 12:16:00 -
[5886]
You've already tipped over your cashcow (alt accounts), a 5 day free reactivation isn't going to get it back on it's feet.
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Tivookz
Caldari IMPERIAL SENATE
|
Posted - 2008.12.18 13:27:00 -
[5887]
Originally by: Benedic You've already tipped over your cashcow (alt accounts), a 5 day free reactivation isn't going to get it back on it's feet.
Question is, would a reintroduction of ghost training get it back on it's feet?
I for one would at least reconsider activating my accs and going back to EVE full time if they did.
Tiv __________________________________________________
Hating Cash Craving Productions since oct 15th 2008 |
Benedic
The Aftermath
|
Posted - 2008.12.18 13:49:00 -
[5888]
Originally by: Tivookz
Originally by: Benedic You've already tipped over your cashcow (alt accounts), a 5 day free reactivation isn't going to get it back on it's feet.
Question is, would a reintroduction of ghost training get it back on it's feet?
I for one would at least reconsider activating my accs and going back to EVE full time if they did.
Only if they coupled it with a reduction of GTC costs, I'd also suspect a large portion of people have already permanently mothballed, soldo ff, or consolidated onto 1 account.
|
Liu
|
Posted - 2008.12.18 15:14:00 -
[5889]
Originally by: Benedic
Originally by: Tivookz
Originally by: Benedic You've already tipped over your cashcow (alt accounts), a 5 day free reactivation isn't going to get it back on it's feet.
Question is, would a reintroduction of ghost training get it back on it's feet?
I for one would at least reconsider activating my accs and going back to EVE full time if they did.
yep, i have wasted 40 euros consolidating 3 accounts into 1. i wouldnt go back to 3 even if they backpeddaled this "ghost training" bug.
Only if they coupled it with a reduction of GTC costs, I'd also suspect a large portion of people have already permanently mothballed, soldo ff, or consolidated onto 1 account.
Originally by: Apertotes tbh, boot.ini was overpowered and needed a nerf
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Becham
|
Posted - 2008.12.18 16:13:00 -
[5890]
I have to think that CCP could have handled this better. Perhaps they could have cut training time credited to unsubbed accounts in half, or leave things as is and give every subbed account a 500k bump on every other month of continual subscription. Altering a game mechanic that was "rampant" as they put it results in 196 pages of thread afterwards.
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Tasty Bit
Gallente UNITED STAR SYNDICATE
|
Posted - 2008.12.18 16:22:00 -
[5891]
Originally by: Becham I have to think that CCP could have handled this better. Perhaps they could have cut training time credited to unsubbed accounts in half, or leave things as is and give every subbed account a 500k bump on every other month of continual subscription. Altering a game mechanic that was "rampant" as they put it results in 196 pages of thread afterwards.
196 plus the one they locked that was over 40 pages long. This one's within 3 pages of being locked, imo. Then we can start over.
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fried eggs
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.12.18 16:54:00 -
[5892]
Originally by: Benedic
Originally by: Tivookz
Originally by: Benedic You've already tipped over your cashcow (alt accounts), a 5 day free reactivation isn't going to get it back on it's feet.
Question is, would a reintroduction of ghost training get it back on it's feet?
I for one would at least reconsider activating my accs and going back to EVE full time if they did.
Only if they coupled it with a reduction of GTC costs...
And/or reinstated at least the 90-day card. With so much resentment from a lot of the old timers combined with CCP's apparent lack of concern, I don't know if it's too late or not. Not to mention all of the other "stuff" (i.e. missile changes, nano nerfs etc...) that has people angry.
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Kasak Black
The Collective Against ALL Authorities
|
Posted - 2008.12.18 18:08:00 -
[5893]
I'm not a heavy EVE user, I once was. I would play a good 30 hours a week, but now I can't as RL always gets in the way. However I still like to keep my character up to date with the latest skills etc.
I must say I am thoroughly disappointed that I will no longer be able to 'ghost train'. It was always a useful feature of EVE for me as I could keep Kasak ticking along with a long skill whilst I couldn't afford the money or time to keep my subscription running. Shame.
I'll still sub my account, and still take breaks when I need to, but it would have been nice to have Kasak skill constantly.
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Tasty Bit
Gallente UNITED STAR SYNDICATE
|
Posted - 2008.12.18 18:40:00 -
[5894]
Originally by: Kasak Black I'm not a heavy EVE user, I once was. I would play a good 30 hours a week, but now I can't as RL always gets in the way. However I still like to keep my character up to date with the latest skills etc.
I must say I am thoroughly disappointed that I will no longer be able to 'ghost train'. It was always a useful feature of EVE for me as I could keep Kasak ticking along with a long skill whilst I couldn't afford the money or time to keep my subscription running. Shame.
I'll still sub my account, and still take breaks when I need to, but it would have been nice to have Kasak skill constantly.
To quote CCCP; "sucks to be you, eh?"
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Aargh
|
Posted - 2008.12.18 21:18:00 -
[5895]
"Ghost training" was one of the major selling points to my friends I brought in from another MMO, since it meant that they could skill up EVE in the background and wouldn't have to pay when they were busy with new content in the other MMO.
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OffBeaT
Caldari KaMiKaZes
|
Posted - 2008.12.19 01:25:00 -
[5896]
Edited by: OffBeaT on 19/12/2008 01:29:48
Originally by: Squirrrel
Originally by: OffBeaT Edited by: OffBeaT on 18/12/2008 05:43:30
Originally by: Squirrrel
Originally by: OffBeaT yea, ccp is doing the right think in this there is to many floating accounts now in eve + why should they get to cash in on five accounts they only payed half on and ccp lose on it.
pay you cheap skates and stop crying. ccp needs the coin an i need a better eve that the cash will bring..
Oh god, here's another one!
Kamikaze..? You missed the target.
a real gang banger like you would know right! ill see you soon ! i haven't forgotten you..
blah blah blah...
just come out when i call on you..
oh, you know you like the name!
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Roto Rooter
|
Posted - 2008.12.19 09:33:00 -
[5897]
Originally by: Tivookz
Originally by: Benedic You've already tipped over your cashcow (alt accounts), a 5 day free reactivation isn't going to get it back on it's feet.
Question is, would a reintroduction of ghost training get it back on it's feet?
I for one would at least reconsider activating my accs and going back to EVE full time if they did.
Tiv
I gave that some thought hundreds, maybe thousands of posts ago in this thread and I said then and still feel that restoring unsubbed training wouldn't do it for me. With the obvious lies and spin and CCP's determination to stonewall this and tough it through, I said earlier (in one or another of my 27 chars) that what might do it would be a video in which the key CCP people tearfully offer abject apologies, and since words are cheap they should offer some visible mortification of the flesh to make it believable... like self-flagellation or such.
I feel soiled, violated. I don't trust CCP as far as I can throw their Viking asses. I really think they have a cultural ethical problem, maybe something that has filtered down from their Viking roots. They may not bash people's heads in anymore but they approach business with that kind of attitude. They're arrogant, they're full of themselves, and the only weapon I have with which to fight back is my subscription money.
The manly way for them to handle this would be to completely fess up, admit to the lies and spin, and offer their most sincere apologies, publicly and with convincing sincerity. I don't expect that. The way they have handled this is the weasel way. As long as they continue on this path I will make sure that they get a lot less of my money than they were getting before this fiasco began.
-8 accounts atm.
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Duskadantor
|
Posted - 2008.12.19 11:40:00 -
[5898]
Originally by: Kasak Black I'm not a heavy EVE user, I once was. I would play a good 30 hours a week, but now I can't as RL always gets in the way. However I still like to keep my character up to date with the latest skills etc.
I must say I am thoroughly disappointed that I will no longer be able to 'ghost train'. It was always a useful feature of EVE for me as I could keep Kasak ticking along with a long skill whilst I couldn't afford the money or time to keep my subscription running. Shame.
I'll still sub my account, and still take breaks when I need to, but it would have been nice to have Kasak skill constantly.
There used to be a time when I did things in eve. Now it seems more and more like a social network of friends; old and new. We all have our own lives to lead. Mine has just lead me away from playing in eve. I continue to skill because maybe things will change.
My history of eve, saw all large level V's trained only when unsubbed. Call it a lack of willpower, but to stick with a level V skill for 29+ days was nigh on impossible for me. It was also nice to have a break back to reality, so they would tie in together nicely.
When this new change was implemented... I definitely would have been raging. To come back at the end of October, to see my last BS V skill halted. In reality my last unsubbed skill ended 13th Oct, so fate has been kind to me. I had also been planning to be more active and 'do stuff' in eve prior to the change, upon my return. The change kinda fits in neatly.
I will sure be missing this feature when another level V biggie takes my fancy, but that shouldn't be for a long while. It is a great shame that strangers and friends alike cannot continue character growth when they go on their break. All the more reason to be sad for those that leave and have little incentive or reason to come back.
Obviously my being in eve isn't reason enough :P
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Kaladin Frostfire
|
Posted - 2008.12.19 11:53:00 -
[5899]
wonder.. when cccp goin to say "u need to be online for training skills.. when u go ofline skill training will be stopped" its not goin to suprise me
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Tasty Bit
Gallente UNITED STAR SYNDICATE
|
Posted - 2008.12.19 12:23:00 -
[5900]
Originally by: Kaladin Frostfire wonder.. when cccp goin to say "u need to be online for training skills.. when u go ofline skill training will be stopped" its not goin to suprise me
Maybe when they see numbers of people online decline, or not increasing significantly this will happen. 5000 people online and afk merely to train would certainly bolster online figures.
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Kethot
Ordo Drakonis Curatores Veritatis Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.12.19 12:26:00 -
[5901]
Originally by: Kaladin Frostfire wonder.. when cccp goin to say "u need to be online for training skills.. when u go ofline skill training will be stopped" its not goin to suprise me
They are actually gonna say that offline skill training is a bug and was never intended to work in such a way.
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Squirrrel
Gallente Squirrrel Industries
|
Posted - 2008.12.19 16:49:00 -
[5902]
Originally by: OffBeaT just come out when i call on you..
oh, you know you like the name!
Beating me in-game won't disprove you're ignorant and missed the target of the thread.
The name's ok I guess... dying whilst taking your target down seems a little thick-headed though.
What else do you have?
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Jennifer Flate
Caldari
|
Posted - 2008.12.19 17:22:00 -
[5903]
Originally by: Kethot
Originally by: Kaladin Frostfire wonder.. when cccp goin to say "u need to be online for training skills.. when u go ofline skill training will be stopped" its not goin to suprise me
They are actually gonna say that offline skill training is a bug and was never intended to work in such a way.
I'd actually go as far to say that CCP are likely to make it so that you need to be in a station of positive standing with a "Skill Training" module built to train your skill and when you undock from that station you can not continue training that skill until you return to that exact station to train that skill.
It is ridiculous that they have decided to fix this so called "bug" or as i like to call it "the main reason i play EVE". I would have preferred them to say "We have lost all our money in the credit crunch and are looking for customers help, in an attempt to recharge our funds we are TEMPORARILY stopping our AWESOME FEATURE and BEST SELLING POINT "ghost training", we hope this will not bother our dedicated members of EVE"
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Mint Royale
Gallente Center for Advanced Studies
|
Posted - 2008.12.19 18:18:00 -
[5904]
This threas is only 2,5 more pages away from disapearing due to a convinient SQL crash :)
However, I was pretty fun so see that pathetic 5 days for free offer ccp tossed at all the unsubbed accounts holder :)
I for one - as a response to this - got my mail adress removed from the newsletter!
But now I would really like to hear the spin of the cccp-fanboi brigade: Fisrt you guys said unsubbed training is an exploit and unfair towards the ppl paying and playing 365 d/a. How come cccp rewards the ppl who stopped their subscriptions with a full play 5 days for free offer? Aren't you guys foaming out of your mouths already?
Oh and I really hope CCCP goes down like a wet bag of sand next year!
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Tasty Bit
Gallente UNITED STAR SYNDICATE
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Posted - 2008.12.19 18:36:00 -
[5905]
Originally by: Mint Royale This threas is only 2,5 more pages away from disapearing due to a convinient SQL crash :)
However, I was pretty fun so see that pathetic 5 days for free offer ccp tossed at all the unsubbed accounts holder :)
I for one - as a response to this - got my mail adress removed from the newsletter!
But now I would really like to hear the spin of the cccp-fanboi brigade: Fisrt you guys said unsubbed training is an exploit and unfair towards the ppl paying and playing 365 d/a. How come cccp rewards the ppl who stopped their subscriptions with a full play 5 days for free offer? Aren't you guys foaming out of your mouths already?
Oh and I really hope CCCP goes down like a wet bag of sand next year!
I am using the 5 days to harvest my datacores before the accounts go inactive again. Go me.
PS Thanks for facilitating that. o7
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Squirrrel
Gallente Squirrrel Industries
|
Posted - 2008.12.20 01:21:00 -
[5906]
Originally by: Tasty Bit
Originally by: Mint Royale This threas is only 2,5 more pages away from disapearing due to a convinient SQL crash :)
However, I was pretty fun so see that pathetic 5 days for free offer ccp tossed at all the unsubbed accounts holder :)
I for one - as a response to this - got my mail adress removed from the newsletter!
But now I would really like to hear the spin of the cccp-fanboi brigade: Fisrt you guys said unsubbed training is an exploit and unfair towards the ppl paying and playing 365 d/a. How come cccp rewards the ppl who stopped their subscriptions with a full play 5 days for free offer? Aren't you guys foaming out of your mouths already?
Oh and I really hope CCCP goes down like a wet bag of sand next year!
I am using the 5 days to harvest my datacores before the accounts go inactive again. Go me.
PS Thanks for facilitating that. o7
I hope you've not set a skill training though for those 5 days... you might overload the DB!
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Sphit Ker
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Posted - 2008.12.20 01:29:00 -
[5907]
............................................________ ....................................,.-æö...................``~., .............................,.-ö...................................ô-., .........................,/...............................................ö:, .....................,?......................................................\, .................../...........................................................,} ................./......................................................,:`^`..} .............../...................................................,:ö........./ ..............?.....__.........................................:`.........../ ............./__.(.....ô~-,_..............................,:`........../ .........../(_....ö~,_........ô~,_....................,:`........_/ ..........{.._$;_......ö=,_.......ô-,_.......,.-~-,},.~ö;/....} ...........((.....*~_.......ö=-._......ô;,,./`..../ö............../ ...,,,___.\`~,......ô~.,....................`.....}............../ ............(....`=-,,.......`........................(......;_,,-ö ............/.`~,......`-...............................\....../\ .............\`~.*-,.....................................|,./.....\,__ ,,_..........}.>-._\...................................|..............`=~-, .....`=~-,_\_......`\,.................................\ ...................`=~-,,.\,...............................\ ................................`:,,...........................`\..............__ .....................................`=-,...................,%`>--==`` ........................................_\..........._,-%.......`\ ...................................,<`.._|_,-&``................`\
Go ahead and moderate that. CCP won't get my money and they know why.
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Victoria DuBlaidd
|
Posted - 2008.12.20 01:54:00 -
[5908]
Originally by: Mint Royale Edited by: Mint Royale on 19/12/2008 19:43:02 edit: WTF horrible spelling! :(
This thread is only 2,5 more pages away from disapearing due to a convinient SQL crash :)
However, it was pretty fun so see that pathetic 5 days for free offer ccp tossed at all the unsubbed account holders :)
I for one - as a response to this - got my mail adress removed from the newsletter!
But now I would really like to hear the spin of the cccp-fanboi brigade: First you guys said unsubbed training is an exploit and unfair towards the ppl paying and playing 365 d/a. How come cccp rewards the ppl who stopped their subscriptions with a full play 5 days for free offer? Aren't you guys foaming out of your mouths already?
Oh and I really hope CCCP goes down like a wet bag of sand next year!
maybe someone has to give account to shareholders and it's coming up shortly? give 5 free days and then put something up that says "we have X active accounts" and just neglect to put that Y of them are because of the 5 free days... |
Squirrrel
Gallente Squirrrel Industries
|
Posted - 2008.12.20 02:08:00 -
[5909]
Edited by: Squirrrel on 20/12/2008 02:08:38
Originally by: Victoria DuBlaidd
Originally by: Mint Royale Edited by: Mint Royale on 19/12/2008 19:43:02 edit: WTF horrible spelling! :(
This thread is only 2,5 more pages away from disapearing due to a convinient SQL crash :)
However, it was pretty fun so see that pathetic 5 days for free offer ccp tossed at all the unsubbed account holders :)
I for one - as a response to this - got my mail adress removed from the newsletter!
But now I would really like to hear the spin of the cccp-fanboi brigade: First you guys said unsubbed training is an exploit and unfair towards the ppl paying and playing 365 d/a. How come cccp rewards the ppl who stopped their subscriptions with a full play 5 days for free offer? Aren't you guys foaming out of your mouths already?
Oh and I really hope CCCP goes down like a wet bag of sand next year!
maybe someone has to give account to shareholders and it's coming up shortly? give 5 free days and then put something up that says "we have X active accounts" and just neglect to put that Y of them are because of the 5 free days...
It also gives some unsubbed characters a few days to clean some ISK before more accounts get banned.
Love the timimg...
|
Alexandra DuBlaidd
|
Posted - 2008.12.20 02:08:00 -
[5910]
Originally by: Deviana Sevidon Edited by: Deviana Sevidon on 16/12/2008 22:53:47 Please continue posting, you will make it to page 200, I am proud of you.
On a serious note. Yes the ghost training was most likely a bug, a bug that was left alone for more then 5 years and that worked to the benefit of some players. At one time this bug was declared a feature by CCP.
This is all correct. But it is also a fact that the number of people that used the "feature" increased over time and that this is rather useful when training Alts on high-ranking Level 5 Skills.
Now CCP removed the Bug/Feature and it is within their right to do so. They can make any change they want to their game and in the hard reality it does not matter all that much what you want, because CCP already decided to do so.
The only thing you get with your money is access to the game-server and all the features that CCP provides you. They can add a feature that you may like/dislike or they can remove a feature that you like/dislike, but the decision is not yours. The only decision for you is, if you want to continue to pay for access to the game server, as it is provided by CCP, or if you want to terminate your account.
There is no in-between. Take it or leave it.
my point exactly. terminate all your alt accounts and maybe even your main.
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|
Roto Rooter
|
Posted - 2008.12.20 10:57:00 -
[5911]
Originally by: Deviana Sevidon ...Yes the ghost training was most likely a bug,
Not a chance. Experienced programmers can reconstruct exactly how the training in Eve was designed, why it was designed that way, and that unsubbed training was the natural result. It would have taken substantial additional work to alter training upon account expiration, something CCP has now done instead of fixing persistent bugs that are real issues.
Originally by: Deviana Sevidon a bug that was left alone for more then 5 years and that worked to the benefit of some players. At one time this bug was declared a feature by CCP.
Bzzzzt! Wrong again. It was the way training was designed and implemented. It was used promotionally by CCP, according to old timers. It wasn't declared a feature... it simply was a feature.
And the party to whose benefit it worked was CCP. The feature, while being a nice, user-friendly feature, worked powerfully to bring lapsed players back into the paid playing field. This is so starkly obvious that it is inexplicable that CCP would nerf such a draw that brought back lapsed accounts, and it is further inexplicable that CCP fanbois and apologists can pretend not to understand it, unless they are unabashed CCP employees.
Originally by: Deviana Sevidon This is all correct.
Bzzzt! Your statements are incorrect.
Originally by: Deviana Sevidon But it is also a fact that the number of people that used the "feature" increased over time...
You don't know that. The only thing CCP has said was that they noticed a recent increase in unsubbed training, but failed to say how deeply or even whether they investigated what the increase might have meant. They appeared to be oblivious to the obvious seasonal effect of students returning to school and to the effects of the worldwide financial crisis on discretionary spending by individuals affected by or fearful of the crisis.
Originally by: Deviana Sevidon and that this is rather useful when training Alts on high-ranking Level 5 Skills.
You have no clue about what you are saying. There are relatively few players with "high-ranking Level 5 skills" to train. Those in that position would only get a real advantage from unsubbed training if they didn't wish to actually use and play those characters while training. Lastly, of course, even for such players it would still be necessary to pay at least several subscriptions per year, which was more than CCP will now be getting from many of those ppl.
Originally by: Deviana Sevidon Now CCP removed the Bug/Feature and it is within their right to do so. They can make any change they want to their game and in the hard reality it does not matter all that much what you want, because CCP already decided to do so.
Correct. And your point is...?
Originally by: Deviana Sevidon The only thing you get with your money is access to the game-server and all the features that CCP provides you. They can add a feature that you may like/dislike or they can remove a feature that you like/dislike, but the decision is not yours. The only decision for you is, if you want to continue to pay for access to the game server, as it is provided by CCP, or if you want to terminate your account.
There is no in-between. Take it or leave it.
Oh, rubbish! We have much more power than merely to pay or not to pay. We have voices, we can participate in other MMOG sites, we can create our own websites, we can organize, etc., but most importantly, for multiple account holders there is most definitely something inbetween paying or not paying. I own nine accounts and I decide how many of those will be active and how many will be inactive. Right now eight of the nine are inactive, paying CCP nothing. When CCP doesn't displease me too much I have all nine active. When CCP displeases me I reduce the number I keep active.
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kan han
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.12.20 11:20:00 -
[5912]
An Affair or Fairness
I follow all this GT stuff from the beginning and it is still a good laugh at ccp how they try to not handle the issue. So from time to time I fall back to it. For example with the other 4-to-5-years-or-so reported bug. But what I really like to put the finger on are the Terms of Use of the game.
CCP writes a lot about fairness and their view of it. I find it very hard to understand their view of fairness, while I as a player am bound to their TOS. In those Terms it is written, that you do own nothing. So you do not own skills, you do not own Items, you do not own ISK. And you do not even own Gametime, because they can downtime your gametime to death without you getting any refund.
So I would pose the question to CCP and everyone else, how can anything be unfair (or fair) in this game? Every player is bound to the same terms that say, that you get nothing. If some other players get more nothing because of interacting with the game, they still get as much nothing as other players. It is like with math, if you multiply with zero you get zero.
The often named fairness by ccp is just a nice-sounding masquerade for spinning the users view that there is anything fair or unfair in the game. You own nothing, you have nothing so you can not create word-terms like fair or unfair in this games context.
That leads me to a simple question: How could a level of fairness be measured?
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Lord Zoran
House of Tempers
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Posted - 2008.12.20 12:11:00 -
[5913]
main reason i thought it was handy was if you had rl probs you could set a long skill and go deal with rl and if you came back usually in which you would come back after the long skill had finished anyway you would have something to look forward to when coming back to eve, in some cases it was almost an incentive to come back and pay another subscription. tbh i think the blog will just make people angry, to me it just made me think more then anything else they were trying to prove they didnt want more money rather then justifying their actions.
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Jobby
Minmatar UNITED STAR SYNDICATE
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Posted - 2008.12.20 12:44:00 -
[5914]
I'm just dying to see a U-turn on this issue.
That'll be...well..words escape me, but "utterly" and "embarrasing" are 2 that spring to mind.
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Jennifer Flate
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.12.20 13:50:00 -
[5915]
Originally by: Jobby I'm just dying to see a U-turn on this issue.
That'll be...well..words escape me, but "utterly" and "embarrasing" are 2 that spring to mind.
Unfortunately CCP do not care for what their customers think and they seem to be oblivious to what attracts people to EVE. Therefore we will most likely have to spend a lot of time trying to open their eyes to what is happening.
I wouldn't mind so much if they actually just told us simply why they are doing this, it is obvious that they aren't just "fixing a bug" in their game and there is a deeper issue but they refuse to shed light on it and once again handle the situation atrociously.
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Jobby
Minmatar UNITED STAR SYNDICATE
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Posted - 2008.12.20 13:53:00 -
[5916]
I believe that this change was to make more money, and I believe that this did not happen.
Therefore any U-turn would be to make more money, not to make customers happy.
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Jennifer Flate
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.12.20 13:56:00 -
[5917]
I see :P
True :D but i don't want to get my hopes up.
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Tate Aoko
Advanced Logistics
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Posted - 2008.12.20 15:43:00 -
[5918]
Edited by: Tate Aoko on 20/12/2008 15:42:54
Originally by: Kasak Black I'm not a heavy EVE user, I once was. I would play a good 30 hours a week, but now I can't as RL always gets in the way. However I still like to keep my character up to date with the latest skills etc.
I must say I am thoroughly disappointed that I will no longer be able to 'ghost train'. It was always a useful feature of EVE for me as I could keep Kasak ticking along with a long skill whilst I couldn't afford the money or time to keep my subscription running. Shame.
I'll still sub my account, and still take breaks when I need to, but it would have been nice to have Kasak skill constantly.
Apparently you're the problem for CCP. And, apparently, so am I. But you can sure see where they are coming from right? ****, it must suck to have all these customers who keep finding reasons to come back.
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Squirrrel
Gallente Squirrrel Industries
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Posted - 2008.12.20 19:55:00 -
[5919]
Originally by: Tate Aoko
Apparently you're the problem for CCP. And, apparently, so am I. But you can sure see where they are coming from right? ****, it must suck to have all these customers who keep finding reasons to come back.
That won't last forever, if much longer...
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Elorai
|
Posted - 2008.12.22 03:34:00 -
[5920]
Wow. So i get this nice offer in the mail for 5 free days of eve. Have been playing eve on and off since 2004. Ghost training was the reason there was on periods, guess not anymore. Some simple math for CCP, 3 accounts subbed 6 months of the year > higher revenue than 0 accounts subbed.
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Oliver Price
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Posted - 2008.12.22 06:47:00 -
[5921]
Wah, I can't train skills for free anymore. Wah, I can't afford 8 alts anymore, and have to find people in game that can produce the services I need. Wah, CCP is really messing us over, I want to quit. Wah, wah, wah.
Seriously, regardless of if it was a bug or a feature that CCP promoted, it was , unfair. There are free MMO's out there, and some of them are really decent. If you don't want to pay to play, find one. CCP still has the best ideas on running an MMO giving you free updates, and the ability to play for free via the purchase of GTC's, and selling characters for isk. Even though GTC's are getting ridiculous, but that's a supply and demand issue, not CCP's issue.
Don't get me wrong, if CCP ever decided to start charging for updates, I would leave to, not because I hate the game or the company, but because I don't want to pay for updates. That's the choice I make, same as you. Quit if you, but at least have some self respect.
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Diana Pride
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Posted - 2008.12.22 09:16:00 -
[5922]
Originally by: Oliver Price Wah, I can't train skills for free anymore. Wah, I can't afford 8 alts anymore, and have to find people in game that can produce the services I need. Wah, CCP is really messing us over, I want to quit. Wah, wah, wah.
Seriously, regardless of if it was a bug or a feature that CCP promoted, it was , unfair. There are free MMO's out there, and some of them are really decent. If you don't want to pay to play, find one. CCP still has the best ideas on running an MMO giving you free updates, and the ability to play for free via the purchase of GTC's, and selling characters for isk. Even though GTC's are getting ridiculous, but that's a supply and demand issue, not CCP's issue.
Don't get me wrong, if CCP ever decided to start charging for updates, I would leave to, not because I hate the game or the company, but because I don't want to pay for updates. That's the choice I make, same as you. Quit if you, but at least have some self respect.
Well, Mr. Exclamation Mark,
if you compare EVE to other MMO's, then EVE is truely unique. In Games like AoC, I can have multiple characters on a single account, managing all the trade skills I want. Thus paying monthly for one account and cover whatever I want. I don't need a second account, if I want to be able to produce something.
Eve sure is different on that side. If I want to participate in every aspect of the game, I can't cover that with just one account (or character). I need to have alts, and as I can't train them on the same account (at the same time), I need multiple accounts.
Most people here aren't whining or crying either. They stated the consequences this has for them and how they'll do with it. I'll quote something for you here:
"In nature there are neither rewards nor punishments - there are consequences." (Robert Green Ingersoll / 1833-1899)
So have some self respect, and read the thread before posting. Most people here are unhappy with the smoke and dust politics by CCP rather than with the issue itself. For me it means, consolidating my accounts. CCP might squeeze a couple more $ out of my pocket, but once my characters are moved, I cut my expenses for this game by some ammount and if many are doing that, CCP will be hit where it hurts, by their income.
I highly doubt, they'll take the u-turn at all. They made (as I and other suspect) a bad move and will be too proud, to backpedale on that. They'll push it through just to keep some face.
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Squirrrel
Gallente Squirrrel Industries
|
Posted - 2008.12.22 11:11:00 -
[5923]
Originally by: Oliver Price Wah, I can't train skills for free anymore. Wah, I can't afford 8 alts anymore, and have to find people in game that can produce the services I need. Wah, CCP is really messing us over, I want to quit. Wah, wah, wah..
Yes, you're acting like a child.
At least read more of the thread and get a grip of what the actual complaint is before posting.
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Glengrant
TOHA Heavy Industries
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Posted - 2008.12.22 11:34:00 -
[5924]
Originally by: Diana Pride
Eve sure is different on that side. If I want to participate in every aspect of the game, I can't cover that with just one account (or character). I need to have alts, and as I can't train them on the same account (at the same time), I need multiple accounts.
None of the above is true (except for the "(at the same time)").
I have 3 chars on one account. Never had more than 1 account, don't intend to ever have more than 1. 1 for pvp 1 for industry/management 1 scientist
Thus I can participate in all aspects of the game. All 3 chars are specialized - my combat char couldn't mine to save his live. My scientist can't fly combat ships.
Only drawback is that I had to train learning and category skills (electronics, engineering) at least to some degree 3 times - compared to having it all in one char. OTOH I gained the ability to keep my specialized chars in different locations - so it's a fair deal.
It's true I can't haul and mine or tackle and destroy at the same time - but I'm not playing a MMO to play by myself anyway. That's what you have corp/alliance mates and voice comm for.
In other words - you have all the options with that 1 account. The options have consequences.
Nobody forces you to have several accounts and my example proves that it is not necessary in order to be able to do everything EVE makes available. If you do get several accounts it's because you prefer to work solo and/or want to train faster. Again - options with consequences. Your choice.
--- Save the forum: Think before you post. ISK BUYER = LOSER EVE TV- Bring it back!
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Roto Rooter
|
Posted - 2008.12.22 11:36:00 -
[5925]
Originally by: Oliver Price Wah, I can't train skills for free anymore.
Ah, another clueless poster who didn't bother to read the thread. Unsubbed training was not free. It only "completed" the current training step and required the account to be paid up to start the training and to get the benefit of the "completion." What don't you understand about that? Many of us view the training as having been bought and paid for by the time we click to start a training step. The "completion" is just a calendar date before which the new step can't be used. In this view the unsubbed training nerf actually stole value from the player base while at the same time hurting CCP's reactivation stats.
Originally by: Oliver Price Seriously, regardless of if it was a bug or a feature that CCP promoted, it was , unfair.
No, it was not unfair. The marginal benefit from it was available to all players. It was a huge draw benefiting CCP by bringing ppl back to paid status. That's why it's so irrational that they nerfed it.
But if you think it was unfair, then you must also think that the recent offer of five free days for lapsed accounts must be unfair... after all, that's free game time, right? Actual game time, not training time. Playable game time. Isn't that unfair to all of us who pay for playable game time, hmmm?
You must also think it is unfair that CCP offers discounts for subscriptions longer than 30 days. After all, why should some players get their game time cheaper than the rest of us just because they're willing to pay 3 mos, 6 mos or a year in advance,hmmm?
Originally by: Oliver Price There are free MMO's out there, and some of them are really decent. If you don't want to pay to play, find one.
Speak for yourself. It's not for you to decide how we should deal with something that displeases us. It's not an either-or situation. What many of us are in fact doing is reducing what we pay to CCP, not leaving the game entirely. That's our choice. We are also expressing our extreme dissatisfaction with the unsubbed training nerf and especially the rotten way it was handled -- almost no notice, 4, 5, 6 different spins on why they did it, ultimately being "for business reasons," which means clueless suits or executives who don't understand the game or the way subscribers play it thought they could generate some additional revenue by "forcing" us to subscribe some of our chars more of the time. Bzzzzt! We are subscribing our chars less of the time, resulting in less revenue to CCP than before.
Originally by: Oliver Price CCP still has the best ideas on running an MMO giving you free updates, and the ability to play for free via the purchase of GTC's,
Paying for game time via GTCs is not free. First, the player has to work like hell to generate the ISK with which to buy the GTCs. Second, every GTC bought for ISK was first bought for cash by some other player, producing revenue for CCP.
Originally by: Oliver Price ...Even though GTC's are getting ridiculous, but that's a supply and demand issue, not CCP's issue.
Ah, and do you know why GTC prices have gone up? Here's a clue: many of us reducing our participation are the same ones who used to buy GTCs for cash and offer them in game for ISK. Supply and demand... the supply has shrunk, so prices have risen.
Originally by: Oliver Price Don't get me wrong, if CCP ever decided to start charging for updates, I would leave to, not because I hate the game or the company, but because I don't want to pay for updates. That's the choice I make, same as you. Quit if you, but at least have some self respect.
Ah, so you do have a hot button issue yourself, but you can't understand that other people have their own issues.
-7 accts atm.
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Roto Rooter
|
Posted - 2008.12.22 11:46:00 -
[5926]
Originally by: Diana Pride I highly doubt, they'll take the u-turn at all. They made (as I and other suspect) a bad move and will be too proud, to backpedale on that. They'll push it through just to keep some face.
Quite so. I don't think they'll reverse this, either, and for the same reasons you think they won't. It's pride based on arrogance and obscured by secrecy. If they had a real, rational reason, they could have explained it by now. None of their spin cycles made any sense and some were obvious lies.
In the end it seems to have been based on the mistaken belief that they could "force" us to keep more of our accounts subscribed more of the time. What they actually did was break the training addiction for many of us and devalue our additional accounts, even if we rarely got any benefit from unsubbed training. I no longer care much whether my active chars are training every second of the day, nor that my inactive chars are not training.
They also, of course, hurt themselves by eliminating the powerful lure that drew back inactive accounts that lapsed for reasons other than taking advantage of unsubbed training (which would be most of the lapsed accounts IMO).
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Midas Man
Caldari Dzark Asylum
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Posted - 2008.12.22 12:19:00 -
[5927]
Originally by: Roto Rooter
I no longer care much whether my active chars are training every second of the day, nor that my inactive chars are not training.
Glad its not just me, it seems almost every time i log on i'm greated by "Skill Training Completed". Now if only there was someway to get over my Isk addiction and I will be able to eventually cancel my 3 remaining accounts.
Funny thing I find in all this, It appears CCP are ignoring their older players hoping for the Newbie crowd to replace them. With the huge exploit that has just been uncovered and the massive cost for industrials/producers to run accounts. This game is getting more and more Noob unfriendly. Tech 2 prices are going up and will continue to go up due to mineral shortages, this will cause people to start flying T1 instead causeing T1 prices to rise to some extent. Large production characters producing less causing more upwards movement.
Over in Market Discussions there has been debate about why there hasn't been massive inflation due to the vast ammounts of Isk entering the system each day. Well with the events that has transpired over the last few months I see massive Inflation hitting all area's of the Eve market, not a nice time to be a new Eve player or a player with low Isk Reserves
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Glengrant
TOHA Heavy Industries
|
Posted - 2008.12.22 12:27:00 -
[5928]
Originally by: Roto Rooter
Originally by: Oliver Price Wah, I can't train skills for free anymore.
Ah, another clueless poster who didn't bother to read the thread. Unsubbed training was not free.
The part outside your subscription period sure was. No amount of thread reading makes a difference to that. Yes - you started your skill withing the paid period. Then accumulated SP during that period - all paid for - and then sub ended - and any SP beyond that were indeed - free.
Originally by: Roto Rooter
It only "completed" the current training step and required the account to be paid up to start the training and to get the benefit of the "completion." What don't you understand about that?
It's easy to understand that that's how you *want* it to work. It's also how it *used* to work. Now it doesn't any more and CCP had their reasons (very unlikely to be irrational either). What don't you understand about that?
Their expectations about the consequences might well be wrong - but then they will fix that themselves. "Hey boss,
I have the latest numbers here - ending GT didn't bring the expected improvements in paying subs - we're actually loosing some account-months that can't be explained by other factors in our shiny spreadsheet". "Okey dokey - was worth a try - send memo to marketing to prepare glorious GT-Now-A-Feature (TM) campaign. Tie that in with targeted re-activation email offers - the usual".
Or: "Hey boss,
ending GT is working within expected parameters. Lost roughly the expected amount of account-months and gained the higher re-newal rates we hoped for. Net result is 0.7% extra income due to that change alone". "Good work, congrats to controlling for the idea - you deserve your bonus."
Originally by: Roto Rooter Many of us view the training as having been bought and paid for by the time we click to start a training step.
Understood. But that's just an opinion and it's not CCPs obviously. And CCP owns the computers and the code and employs the devs - so their opinion wins.
Originally by: Roto Rooter The "completion" is just a calendar date before which the new step can't be used.
No it's not. You can interrupt that training yourself any time - to train another skill for example. You keep any SPs until the interruption. In this case the interruption is the end of your paying for the service (actually it's 3 days beyond that end IIRC - right?).
Originally by: Oliver Price In this view the unsubbed training nerf actually stole value from the player base while at the same time hurting CCP's reactivation stats.
The first part is silly grasping at argumentative straws, the latter should make you relax if actually true. If your assumption (based on hopes and hearsay - not actual data) are true - then CCP itself - out of their own self-interest - will re-introduce GT as a feature - regardless of any b*tching and moaning on this forum. They have the figures - you don't. To claim to know better than CCP what is actually hurting or helping their business is silly.
Originally by: Oliver Price It was a huge draw benefiting CCP by bringing ppl back to paid status. That's why it's so irrational that they nerfed it.
*Or* it wasn't the huge draw you claim it was and CCP is not acting irrational - but in their own best interest. And they have the figures to base decisions on - you only have your anger, assumptions and anecdotal pseudo-"evidence" of reading what *some* people *say* here on the forums.
I'm far from being against having GT - I'm just not surprised that CCP ended it finally. I expected that years ago.
I don't know why I let the anger and irrationality on this forum draw me into these silly debates. ;-) --- Save the forum: Think before you post. ISK BUYER = LOSER EVE TV- Bring it back!
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Tivookz
Caldari IMPERIAL SENATE
|
Posted - 2008.12.22 12:32:00 -
[5929]
Quote: I highly doubt, they'll take the u-turn at all. They made (as I and other suspect) a bad move and will be too proud, to backpedale on that. They'll push it through just to keep some face.
I don't think they will either, it would be good if they did because then they would prove they have a board of people who can admit they did wrong.
Doing nothing only proves that CCP has the attitude of a little kid who refuses to beg for forgiveness no matter what, even if that would be the right thing to do.
Time to show your true colors CCP.
Oh and btw. Last day on my five free days. Thanks! But cheap gifts are just that, cheap.
Tiv __________________________________________________
Hating Cash Craving Productions since oct 15th 2008 |
Jobby
Minmatar UNITED STAR SYNDICATE
|
Posted - 2008.12.22 13:33:00 -
[5930]
Originally by: Roto Rooter In the end it seems to have been based on the mistaken belief that they could "force" us to keep more of our accounts subscribed more of the time. What they actually did was break the training addiction for many of us and devalue our additional accounts, even if we rarely got any benefit from unsubbed training. I no longer care much whether my active chars are training every second of the day, nor that my inactive chars are not training.
I'm just perusing the plethora of replies since I last checked the thread and....ffs, this is precisely how I feel now. I was way too addicted to Eve and kept all of my umpteen accounts actively training at all times. Now I don't give a crap. I really needed to get a life, and this is helping me. Now I have a ton of ISK, because I stopped buying stupid amounts of GTCs, and most of my accounts are inactive.
And to the guy that said he had 3 chars on 1 account all specialised...lol.
PS. Yes, I object to the 5 day promotion, too. We pay for the time, so why shouldn't these leechers that are getting free time?
PPS. And yes, I used the 5 days to harvest my datacores, and might consolidate chars onto the same account. Once that's done, there's no undoing it on my part, "ghost training" reversal or not.
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Diana Pride
|
Posted - 2008.12.22 15:23:00 -
[5931]
Edited by: Diana Pride on 22/12/2008 15:28:43
Originally by: Glengrant (...) The first part is silly grasping at argumentative straws, the latter should make you relax if actually true. If your assumption (based on hopes and hearsay - not actual data) are true - then CCP itself - out of their own self-interest - will re-introduce GT as a feature - regardless of any b*tching and moaning on this forum. They have the figures - you don't. To claim to know better than CCP what is actually hurting or helping their business is silly.(...)
You are right, neither of us know if and how bad this will hurt CCP, as stated above, they won't backpedale unless it hits them really bad.
beside that, I found the sigworthy gem I was looking for in the Patchnotes: Build 27121 to 27912
I'll quote it here:
Quote: On the Serenity server, skills no longer train when the owning account is deactivated. Tranquility is not affected by this change.
Hitme
So much about the bug thing ----------------- Patch Notes 27912 (Nov. 2006):
On the Serenity server, skills no longer train when the owning account is deactivated. Tranquility is not affected by this change. |
Jobby
Minmatar UNITED STAR SYNDICATE
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Posted - 2008.12.22 16:08:00 -
[5932]
I wonder how long it'll be before they go back and edit that patch note.
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Tivookz
Caldari IMPERIAL SENATE
|
Posted - 2008.12.22 18:59:00 -
[5933]
Originally by: Jobby I wonder how long it'll be before they go back and edit that patch note.
Yeah.. it's been brought ut before but.. wow CCP must be really stupid if they think they can trick this mature community into thinking they considered it a bug.
Since when does a company change how a "bug" works.
Tiv __________________________________________________
Hating Cash Craving Productions since oct 15th 2008 |
Jobby
Minmatar UNITED STAR SYNDICATE
|
Posted - 2008.12.22 19:48:00 -
[5934]
I bet they wish their customers were the stereotypical interweb gaming kids, not the more mature crew it seems to have attracted.
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Roto Rooter
|
Posted - 2008.12.22 20:21:00 -
[5935]
Originally by: Glengrant Understood. But that's just an opinion and it's not CCPs obviously. And CCP owns the computers and the code and employs the devs - so their opinion wins.
We own the money, so if we act on our opinion, we win. I am presently paying CCP only 2/9 of what I was paying them before the nerf. I doubt I will ever again have all nine accounts active for more than a month or two per year.
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Violet Cobra
Brutor tribe
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Posted - 2008.12.22 20:53:00 -
[5936]
Originally by: Roto Rooter We own the money, so if we act on our opinion, we win.
Signed!
[sarcasm] What comes next? Deletion of accounts after 3 month of inactivity? Think about that CCP. These accounts use server space which isn't payed for anymore. [/sarcasm]
My consequences of all that: only 1 of my 3 accounts is active now. The one left, is canceled already and will end in early january...and NO you can't have my stuff....may it rot and rust in peace.
Perhaps CCP reconsiders their actions, but to be honest, I really doubt that.
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Roto Rooter
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Posted - 2008.12.22 21:37:00 -
[5937]
Originally by: Jobby I bet they wish their customers were the stereotypical interweb gaming kids, not the more mature crew it seems to have attracted.
At least some of us are serious programmers and database people. I began programming in 1963 and have worked continuously in the field since then, including Oracle database design and implementation and systems and application development in about 30 languages from assembly language to COBOL on about a dozen platforms from minicomputers to mainframes.
It's obvious to me how and why CCP designed and implemented training the way they did... it removes training from being a load on the servers and database. It was really quite an elegant design for training in an MMOG, even brilliant.
It's also obvious to me that the minimalist implementation led automatically to unsubbed training, as anything else would have required more work. They have now done that additional work, for reasons insufficiently explained, actively changing the skill training status in the char info sometime after account expiration (i.e. causing some amount of server and database activity that didn't previously exist).
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Squirrrel
Gallente Squirrrel Industries
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Posted - 2008.12.22 22:12:00 -
[5938]
Edited by: Squirrrel on 22/12/2008 22:13:30
Originally by: Glengrant
Originally by: Roto Rooter
Originally by: Oliver Price Wah, I can't train skills for free anymore.
Ah, another clueless poster who didn't bother to read the thread. Unsubbed training was not free.
The part outside your subscription period sure was. No amount of thread reading makes a difference to that. Yes - you started your skill withing the paid period. Then accumulated SP during that period - all paid for - and then sub ended - and any SP beyond that were indeed - free.
In that case then, one could equally argue that when they pay for 30 days game time, they expect to be able to play for a full 30 days without exception - so if the servers go T/U or patches take extraordinary amounts of time - the subscription time should be extended.
Both should go hand in hand - that would be an acceptable trade-off.
Regardless of what is said, lying or spinning facts in this case doesn't seem to have paid off. Maybe the change itself WAS rational, maybe it WILL benefit them in the long-run and of-course it was about money. Saying something from the outset such as "to continue to maintain and improve upon the standard of the product and delivery to it's subscribers, it is necessary to make this change to maximise it's potential profits; profits that are put back into the game in one form or another." "In the current financial climate this is deemed to be a move to protect the product and it's subscribers."
Now, that I could have got onboard with. I may not like it , but I could respect it.
The fact that we got multiple statements that were trying to spin it - and spin it in a ridiculous fashion - despite - as you say - it being obviously about money; well... then you have to wonder if the the change itself was aequally as well thought out.
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8Z 6
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Posted - 2008.12.22 23:52:00 -
[5939]
technicalities, word games, and semantics aside, the fact of the matter is this was a feature that has been in-game for the last five years and now is being removed arbitrarily by cccp. it was a feature of the game i, as a paying customer, preferred, and now without it will follow through with the customers ultimate right...cessation of payment for services.
would saying 'neener neener neener' be inappropriate?
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Glengrant
TOHA Heavy Industries
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Posted - 2008.12.23 00:07:00 -
[5940]
Yeah - it is *possible* that this thing backfires - though don't assume so just because some people here say so on the forum. Even an epic threadnought like this involves only a small fraction of the player base. Most players don't read the forums much if at all. Some percentage of the playerbase will still not even know what GT was. Any new players of recent weeks never knew it was ever there and wouldn't expect it to be.
To the guy above who won because he's playing less after deactivating some of his 9 accounts. That's great - win everywhere. :-) I win too - because I find it annoying when people have a zillion accounts (not that I would keep anybody from doing so - just don't like it).
Regarding the patch note - doesn't prove what you think. GT never was a bug in the sense that a planned feature does not work. It's just a (likely originally unintended) sideeffect that CCP choose not to bother about to prevent for a long time - because yes - preventing GT probably needed a few lines of additional code and as long as people didn't use it much CCP shrugged it off.
I assume that this got out of hand probably - with many people only paying alternate months to raise chars. It's easy to imagine that some people paid 1-2 months to train a bunch of base skills - then pay alternate months to train high skills and then trade/sell off the char.
That would explain why they now decided to end this.
I also don't think that CCP would let pride get into the way if this really ****es too many people off. It's not a big deal. "Dear EVE players,
we finally ended GT because we noticed that some players abused this to farm characters in a way that wasn't fair to us and the rest of the players. But we underestimated how much this change also affects our loyal players. We listened to what you had to say and decided to re-introduce GT as an officialy supported feature now." No problem at all. Easy spin.
If that doesn't happen it will not be out of misplaced pride but because you guys over-estimate the downside for CCP based on this thread.
I don't get what the big deal is though. Either this really has a lot of effect because you guys did it a lot - then CCP is right and can easily take the hit from a few lost accounts to gain the many extra months that will now be paid. Or it was a rare thing - then CCP would have been wrong to invest anything in this change - but it would also just affect you guys once in a blue moon and this threadnought would be the most silly waste of time.
You are not paying for a particular number of days - you are paying for a typical month - that includes downtime and patch days. You're not getting back money for february either. ;-)
And why does anybody even worry about 1 extra day (because of a lost patch day or whatever)? That's something like 50 cents. All of us have wasted 50 cents many times on stupid stuff (apologies to any players who might come from countries where Ç/$ exchange for a lot of local money). Any starving students will likely be already on GTCs. We're talking *literally* about small change here.
The whole monthly fee is the equivalent of 2 movies - or 1 movie plus popcorn/soda. So as long as we get at least 4 hours of quality entertainment per month out of this we're getting our moneys worth (YMMV). :-)
And if anybody multiplies that by getting 9 accounts - that's your choice. And while CCP may drop a tear about closing some of these accounts down - I like about people getting rid of alt accounts. --- Save the forum: Think before you post. ISK BUYER = LOSER EVE TV- Bring it back!
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Squirrrel
Gallente Squirrrel Industries
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Posted - 2008.12.23 00:53:00 -
[5941]
Originally by: Glengrant Yeah - it is *possible* that this thing backfires - though don't assume so just because some people here say so on the forum. Even an epic threadnought like this involves only a small fraction of the player base. Most players don't read the forums much if at all. Some percentage of the playerbase will still not even know what GT was. Any new players of recent weeks never knew it was ever there and wouldn't expect it to be.
Likewise, there are probably a good number of players past and present that don't frequent the forums and assume it's still a feature.
Originally by: Glengrant
To the guy above who won because he's playing less after deactivating some of his 9 accounts. That's great - win everywhere. :-) I win too - because I find it annoying when people have a zillion accounts (not that I would keep anybody from doing so - just don't like it).
I bet CCP love it though. I wonder how many true subscribers they actually have though. If lots of people cut down to just one account maybe the roof would cave in.
Originally by: Glengrant
Regarding the patch note - doesn't prove what you think. GT never was a bug in the sense that a planned feature does not work. It's just a (likely originally unintended) sideeffect that CCP choose not to bother about to prevent for a long time - because yes - preventing GT probably needed a few lines of additional code and as long as people didn't use it much CCP shrugged it off.
Yet the code has already been... er.. coded. It exists. We know this because it exists on Serenity. They could have implemented it there and then, yet chose not to. Previously, other CCP employees have posted of it's use as a feature to get people back into the game as a feature. Cutting your nose off to spite your face this may not be, however losing one's nose could be a by-product of making a general change to the system instead of coming up with a way of stopping character sales/abuse. The easiest way to have done this, having thought about it, would be for ccp to take on a role in the character transfer. All they had to do was make a ruling that a character had to be subbed for a certain period of time per 1M sp's for a transfer to be carried out.
That way, if you abuse the system, you don't benefit until you reach the limit. If you use unsubbed training as a benefit to dipping in and out of the game purely for yourself - you're not affected.
Originally by: Glengrant
It's easy to imagine that some people paid 1-2 months to train a bunch of base skills - then pay alternate months to train high skills and then trade/sell off the char.
I agree. And trading the character also brings in revenue for CCP. I do hope that now, with this change in unsubbed training, they come to some middle ground and make it free to transfer once or twice a year - since no one can abuse the system from this point onward.
Originally by: Glengrant
I also don't think that CCP would let pride get into the way if this really ****es too many people off. It's not a big deal. "Dear EVE players,
we finally ended GT because we noticed that some players abused this to farm characters in a way that wasn't fair to us and the rest of the players. But we underestimated how much this change also affects our loyal players. We listened to what you had to say and decided to re-introduce GT as an officialy supported feature now." No problem at all. Easy spin
History shows us, they will probably screw that up. Easy spin it should be. Look how that's worked out for them over unsubbed training already. They are more likely to announce it as a new feature in the next (yes i know it's free) expansion and increase the subs if they were to backtrack.
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Squirrrel
Gallente Squirrrel Industries
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Posted - 2008.12.23 01:06:00 -
[5942]
Originally by: Glengrant I don't get what the big deal is though. Either this really has a lot of effect because you guys did it a lot - then CCP is right and can easily take the hit from a few lost accounts to gain the many extra months that will now be paid. Or it was a rare thing - then CCP would have been wrong to invest anything in this change - but it would also just affect you guys once in a blue moon and this threadnought would be the most silly waste of time.
I guess people who pay for something don't like being lied to or patronised as if they were mindless children. The big deal is that they didn't just call it like it was from the beginning.
I know some clueless commando is going to probably post straight after yet again - "Free lunch is over, It's CCP's game, they can do what they like! " - and the last part is correct, we know that - and that's why it's both a mystery and an insult that they should try to spin it rather than be honest.
Originally by: Glengrant
You are not paying for a particular number of days - you are paying for a typical month - that includes downtime and patch days. You're not getting back money for february either. ;-)
Depends how you pay for your subs really. GTC's aren't monthly.
Originally by: Glengrant
And why does anybody even worry about 1 extra day (because of a lost patch day or whatever)? That's something like 50 cents. All of us have wasted 50 cents many times on stupid stuff (apologies to any players who might come from countries where Ç/$ exchange for a lot of local money). Any starving students will likely be already on GTCs. We're talking *literally* about small change here.
Would be a nice gesture for when patches ran long overdue wouldn't it?
Originally by: Glengrant
And if anybody multiplies that by getting 9 accounts - that's your choice. And while CCP may drop a tear about closing some of these accounts down - I like about people getting rid of alt accounts.
Out of curiosity... why?
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MoiMine
Miners In Barges
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Posted - 2008.12.23 08:52:00 -
[5943]
well, my acct expires in a few hours.
Due to the handling of this issue i will not return
it was a good run, im just dissapointed in ccp's decisions on this issue.
fly safe everyone
-1 account (almost made it to 2 years)
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Twarda Sztuka
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Posted - 2008.12.23 09:48:00 -
[5944]
Ghost training was available for many years. Plenty of people did that (often unaware that this is a bug). And it costed CCP revenue. So once the decision was made it was resolved almost immediately. I wonder how many years we will have to wait for skill queuing.
I don't mind the fact that only paying accounts should be able to train, but the training should be PAUSED and the moment subsription is paid it should be RESUMED.
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Midas Man
Caldari Dzark Asylum
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Posted - 2008.12.23 10:08:00 -
[5945]
Edited by: Midas Man on 23/12/2008 10:10:08 To all you CCP fainbois, show your support for my idea in my sig.
To everyone like myself that thinks the handling of this was poor support the thread in my sig. The ridiculous reasons stated reminds me of how a 5 year old trys to talk themselves out of trouble.
To all those invisible people that these fainbois argue with who actually believe Ghost training is their right as a customer please refrain from flaming my thread.
Thanks for all your support let unsubbed benefits out of EVE
Annoyed with the ghost training fiasco.
Support this thread Exploits |
Midas Man
Caldari Dzark Asylum
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Posted - 2008.12.23 10:14:00 -
[5946]
Oh also, if anyone can be bothered I am sending daily Exploit report on this untill its fixed, I would send one but from the recent thread about the POS expoit I dont think 1 will be enough. so Exploit report away and lets get all these feature/bugs/exploits cleaned from the game.
Annoyed with the ghost training fiasco.
Support this thread Exploits |
Gunnanmon
Gallente The Scope
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Posted - 2008.12.23 10:14:00 -
[5947]
Originally by: Twarda Sztuka Ghost training was available for many years. Plenty of people did that (often unaware that this is a bug). And it costed CCP revenue. So once the decision was made it was resolved almost immediately. I wonder how many years we will have to wait for skill queuing.
I don't mind the fact that only paying accounts should be able to train, but the training should be PAUSED and the moment subsription is paid it should be RESUMED.
omg The Ghost-training vote thread |
Midas Man
Caldari Dzark Asylum
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Posted - 2008.12.23 10:16:00 -
[5948]
Originally by: Twarda Sztuka Ghost training was available for many years. Plenty of people did that (often unaware that this is a bug). And it costed CCP revenue. So once the decision was made it was resolved almost immediately. I wonder how many years we will have to wait for skill queuing.
I don't mind the fact that only paying accounts should be able to train, but the training should be PAUSED and the moment subsription is paid it should be RESUMED.
What is your stance on the Datacore Farmers?, ie set up research job lapse subscription and wait 6 months, Reactivate and reap the rewards of unsubbed research????
Annoyed with the ghost training fiasco.
Support this thread Exploits |
Grash Freedom
Gallente I Maza
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Posted - 2008.12.23 11:37:00 -
[5949]
Edited by: Grash Freedom on 23/12/2008 11:44:12 Ghost training? how about ghost isk making? isn't that considered unfair against paying customers?
what if i put a sell order, close my account and after month i activate it? i will find the isks of the completed sales if they happened in my wallet
how about poses? they make money while i am offline, or even why market orders are kept active when i am offline? i am not actually playing the game while logged off but i gain no matter what
ghost training was a feature of eve, it was even advertized when i started playing, you can put ghost to whatever function there is in eve
i can even ghost pvp with online towers that kill hostiles while i am offline or without a sub.
i want actual days with every 30 day gametime i buy, 720 hours of game play, not calendar days, because thats what is fair,
hell i can have 10 accounts with 3 chars in each one, 30 chars in total, 30 chars * 6 RD agents = 180 RD agents * 50 RP per day = 9000 rp total thats 3.8 million RP per year or almost 20 bils isk i can activate one account per month and drawn from the 3 chars the datacores make isks and deactivate, wait for next month and circle the accounts
isn't that unfair?? possible but unfair right?
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Midas Man
Caldari Dzark Asylum
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Posted - 2008.12.23 11:51:00 -
[5950]
Originally by: Grash Freedom some very valid points
Pst please support my thread in Assembly hall, linked in my sig, I have suggested all these unfair unsubbed isk making schemes are removed like GT was.
Annoyed with the ghost training fiasco.
Support this thread Exploits |
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Gunnanmon
Gallente The Scope
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Posted - 2008.12.23 11:58:00 -
[5951]
Originally by: Midas Man
Originally by: Twarda Sztuka Ghost training was available for many years. Plenty of people did that (often unaware that this is a bug). And it costed CCP revenue. So once the decision was made it was resolved almost immediately. I wonder how many years we will have to wait for skill queuing.
I don't mind the fact that only paying accounts should be able to train, but the training should be PAUSED and the moment subsription is paid it should be RESUMED.
What is your stance on the Datacore Farmers?, ie set up research job lapse subscription and wait 6 months, Reactivate and reap the rewards of unsubbed research????
Shhhh, don't say anything, maybe they'll not change it 4tw. \o/ The Ghost-training vote thread |
Midas Man
Caldari Dzark Asylum
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Posted - 2008.12.23 14:33:00 -
[5952]
Originally by: Gunnanmon
What is your stance on the Datacore Farmers?, ie set up research job lapse subscription and wait 6 months, Reactivate and reap the rewards of unsubbed research????
Shhhh, don't say anything, maybe they'll not change it 4tw. \o/
TBH they need to change that one more than most, that exploit ruins part the tech2 market, and it is used to a massive extents where people are funding their accounts from it. Unlike Ghost training which only indirectly hurt other players by allowing cheaper skill points which it came at the cost of the account being otherwise useless unless it was datacore farming aswell. Where as Datacore farming accounts are active all the way through their unsubbed periods, and cause active player to get much less reward for their research ie cheaper datacores.
Annoyed with the ghost training fiasco.
Support this thread Exploits |
Chani Fedaykin
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Posted - 2008.12.23 14:49:00 -
[5953]
everytime i check this thread, i am astonished again, that ppl start to post with no or nearly no clue what this thread is (mainly) about.
btw: thanks to all those that are still subscribed and keep on posting with my opinion - because i was not able to post nor will i be able to post in 5 days again.
to all you 'fanboys' out there - as you can obviously see, some ppl do stand by their word and do stop using a product if they are not satisfied with the behaviour / crm of the seller. so to all those that frequently use the phrase 'accept it or quit' ... thats what enough of the previous posters do - but of course, those that stop paying at all wont be able to give you this nice little feedback thanks to ccp's policy to restrict posting to active accounts. only those that still have an active subscription - because they either paid in advance or decided to just reduce their accounts - are able to post here (and those that use ccp's 'generous' offer for 5days :P )
gratz to glengrant btw - you seem to be the first 'pro-unpaid-training-removal' person that is able to articulate himself properly. i dont have to reply to this post however thanks to squirrel (as usually)
status: -1 account (semi paid) thanks to gtc price hype -1 account (mostly paid) thanks to unpaid training removal -1 account (fully paid) thanks to ccp's behaviour / crm |
EnslaverOfMinmatar
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Posted - 2008.12.23 15:01:00 -
[5954]
Edited by: EnslaverOfMinmatar on 23/12/2008 15:01:13
In Before The Convenient Disappearance. uʍop ǝpısdn ǝɹnʇɐuƃıs ʎɯ ƃuıpɐǝɹ ǝɹɐ noʎ
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Squirrrel
Gallente Squirrrel Industries
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Posted - 2008.12.23 22:50:00 -
[5955]
Originally by: Chani Fedaykin gratz to glengrant btw - you seem to be the first 'pro-unpaid-training-removal' person that is able to articulate himself properly. i dont have to reply to this post however thanks to squirrel (as usually)
I agree with the first bit - Glengrant has shown real class in both this and the Starbase exploit thread.
As for the second bit... sorry. I probably post too much for my own good.
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Gunnanmon
Gallente UNITED STAR SYNDICATE
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Posted - 2008.12.24 02:22:00 -
[5956]
Edited by: Gunnanmon on 24/12/2008 02:25:59 Edited by: Gunnanmon on 24/12/2008 02:24:46 Edited by: Gunnanmon on 24/12/2008 02:24:18 Edited by: Gunnanmon on 24/12/2008 02:24:00 Edited by: Gunnanmon on 24/12/2008 02:23:19
Originally by: Chani Fedaykin everytime i check this thread, i am astonished again, that ppl start to post with no or nearly no clue what this thread is (mainly) about.
btw: thanks to all those that are still subscribed and keep on posting with my opinion - because i was not able to post nor will i be able to post in 5 days again.
to all you 'fanboys' out there - as you can obviously see, some ppl do stand by their word and do stop using a product if they are not satisfied with the behaviour / crm of the seller. so to all those that frequently use the phrase 'accept it or quit' ... thats what enough of the previous posters do - but of course, those that stop paying at all wont be able to give you this nice little feedback thanks to ccp's policy to restrict posting to active accounts. only those that still have an active subscription - because they either paid in advance or decided to just reduce their accounts - are able to post here (and those that use ccp's 'generous' offer for 5days :P )
gratz to glengrant btw - you seem to be the first 'pro-unpaid-training-removal' person that is able to articulate himself properly. i dont have to reply to this post however thanks to squirrel (as usually)
status: -1 account (semi paid) thanks to gtc price hype -1 account (mostly paid) thanks to unpaid training removal -1 account (fully paid) thanks to ccp's behaviour / crm
I had edited this reply, and added my own comments, but the phu-cking sh11ty forums decided to ignore my reply and just drop the above sh-1t instead, gj you kunts.
2nd Edit: Nice to see that "ph-uck" is censored" 3rd edit: and "sh1-t" 4th edit: God forbid we use words that are deemed by .....erm...someone, I guess, as being bad. Oh well, hyphens 4tw. The Ghost-training vote thread |
Chani Fedaykin
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Posted - 2008.12.24 04:48:00 -
[5957]
@squirrrel
i am glad you actually do care and post as much as you do - especially because you are able to express and articulate yourself and your opinion including the reasons behind it. thats something i would like to recommend to some other posters too, but obviously life is not a bowl of cherries...
@gunnanmon
perhaps the easier approach would be to just refrain from using those (mostly) offensive words ... you would happen to even leave a much better impression of yourself ^^ |
Rocky Roid
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.12.25 12:22:00 -
[5958]
I think if you are going to do this you should make it possible to train more than 1 character at a time on the same account.
I have 2 accounts because of the (can only train 1 character at a time on the same account). I would ghost train the skills and reactivate it periodicaly when I got realy bored of my main account.
I can no longer afford to pay for 2 accounts so now I am down to 1 character perminantly.
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Carl Druffee
The Funkalistic
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Posted - 2008.12.25 21:07:00 -
[5959]
This has been a hated decision by many, including me. Lies, deceit and other things... One thing is trying to make more money, but lying to customers that pay your wages, your profits and your Hummers on Iceland.
But now I start to see some logic, planned or coincidense.
If you plan on providing a lot of those new short-term offers to get players back into the game, latest a free 5-day trial, valid until january 20th. Mine just expired, so I got a new offer via email, 30 days for $9.95 for reactivation, also valid until january 20th.
With these offers coming every so often, I can understand that CCP don't want to have people being able to train on expired accounts. However, I don't think this is exactly what they planned, but I can live with it, if these kind of offers continue in the future.
It will not change the fact that I will and have cut down on my number of accounts, but it makes me more open to accepting the decision. I still hate it.
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Chani Fedaykin
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Posted - 2008.12.25 23:00:00 -
[5960]
even if they will continue with these offers ... i still require an official statement on the 'real' reasons and the bad handling ccp has shown in this matter. otherwise i will for sure just ignore any 'package' that will yield a profit for ccp. |
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Violet Cobra
Brutor tribe
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Posted - 2008.12.26 08:17:00 -
[5961]
Originally by: Carl Druffee But now I start to see some logic, planned or coincidense.
If you plan on providing a lot of those new short-term offers to get players back into the game, latest a free 5-day trial, valid until january 20th. Mine just expired, so I got a new offer via email, 30 days for $9.95 for reactivation, also valid until january 20th.
With these offers coming every so often, I can understand that CCP don't want to have people being able to train on expired accounts. However, I don't think this is exactly what they planned, but I can live with it, if these kind of offers continue in the future.
I'd rather ask CCP WHY they're throwing out so many short-term offers on all those inactive accounts. Probably it's only because of the situation, that many people have closed their accounts and the overall numbers of active accounts gone down continuously within the last months.
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Squirrrel
Gallente Squirrrel Industries
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Posted - 2008.12.26 10:04:00 -
[5962]
Originally by: Violet Cobra
Originally by: Carl Druffee But now I start to see some logic, planned or coincidense.
If you plan on providing a lot of those new short-term offers to get players back into the game, latest a free 5-day trial, valid until january 20th. Mine just expired, so I got a new offer via email, 30 days for $9.95 for reactivation, also valid until january 20th.
With these offers coming every so often, I can understand that CCP don't want to have people being able to train on expired accounts. However, I don't think this is exactly what they planned, but I can live with it, if these kind of offers continue in the future.
I'd rather ask CCP WHY they're throwing out so many short-term offers on all those inactive accounts. Probably it's only because of the situation, that many people have closed their accounts and the overall numbers of active accounts gone down continuously within the last months.
Possibly trying to hit high login figures for the Christmas period in order to boast about it to the press.
Good PR tactic; if any negative press is released about the exploit, they can still maintain they have very high stats, so really it's a 'non-issue' and the subscribers are still behind the product.
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oilio
Caldari State War Academy
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Posted - 2008.12.26 18:56:00 -
[5963]
Well, that's my last character subscription that runs out in a couple of hours. Won't be able to post anymore, but will still read the forums
I'm already ú30 per month better off as a result. I'll watch the forums to see if it looks like Eve (and CCP's attitude) improve, but I very much doubt it.
We'll see what 2009 brings for Eve. My guess is that all the wonderful things scheduled for March aren't going to be anywhere near as wonderful as people are hoping (Faction Warfare anyone? Our recent "Industrial Expansion" (EXPANSION! HA!))
Anyway, good luck to all. Just remember how much you're paying CCP, and how much you've paid them already, and what exactly you get for that money
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Gotrek Gurnisson
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.12.27 00:34:00 -
[5964]
Another cancellation here - both my accounts run out tomorrow. And I currently have no plans to renew in the next few years.
Im going back to WAR (run in Europe by GOA) purely because:
a) CCPs attitude to arbitrarily changing a major feature of the game, and then claiming it to be a 'bugfix'. I suppose the next thing will be to nerf Amarr ships as they are FOTM by claiming a bug makes them too effective? Or fixing the 'bug' that makes the Raven the most used PVE ship?
b) Apparent lack of action on the starbase exploit. From whats been said about the involvement of the major alliances Im sure it it actually such a big issue that CCP dare not take action against all the perpetraitors - or they may end up losing 20%+ of their player base.
c) WAR / GOAs customer service is improving (yes - I am serious!). Even though GOAs customer support has previously been laughable - they recently sorted out our guild server very quickly and eficiently when we hit major problems. In fact they are in some danger of being moved from my 'laughable customer support' category to 'mediocre customer support' category - which anyone with experience of DAOC or WAR will know is actually a huge improvement.
And in all my DAOC and WAR experiences GOA / Mythic have never openly lied to their customer base. I may not agree with all their decisions and behaviour - but they do at least have the decency to tell us about changes first and the reasons why they are doing it.
d) CCPs insistence on billing in Euros across europe (including non-euro countries) makes EVE very expensive for anyone in the UK. The Sterling-Euro exchange rate currently means CCP have effectively priced themselves out of the market for possibly many years to come.
WAR costs ú8.99 for one account that allows access to all EU servers, with up to 10 chars per server. In comparison EVE currently costs about ú16 per account for one character that can be effectively levelled at any given time, and with exorbitant training requirements from rank 6 skills upwards. In the time it takes me to train one LV skill in EVE it is technically possible to level a char in WAR from level 1 to level 40 (level cap)!
So I am happily hanging up my boots for a while until EVE becomes affordable once again, and until CCP have learned they cant just alienate vast swathes of the player base by making major changes with no warning or explanation.
Fly safe everyone!
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Glengrant
TOHA Heavy Industries
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Posted - 2008.12.27 22:02:00 -
[5965]
Edited by: Glengrant on 27/12/2008 22:02:03
Originally by: Gotrek Gurnisson
Im going back to WAR (run in Europe by GOA) purely because:
If WAR gives *you* overall better gaming experience then this is the right decision anyway. But if something like the removal of GT (or the spin CCP sells it with) is enough to make you quit a game that you otherwise enjoyed playing then I'm sorry to have to predict that this is very likely to happen with WAR or any other game too.
Originally by: Gotrek Gurnisson a) CCPs attitude to arbitrarily changing a major feature of the game, and then claiming it to be a 'bugfix'.
Care to mention what you are talking about? Please tell me you don't mean the nano-fix? I have trouble taking anybody serious who thinks BS should be able to fly at Interceptor speeds. That fix was overdue and long expected.
Originally by: Gotrek Gurnisson b) Apparent lack of action on the starbase exploit.
That horse has been flogged beyond dead already. IMHO it's safe to assume that restoring old DBs and looking through mountains of data to follow money trails and verifying what's legit or not is a time-consuming activity.
Originally by: Gotrek Gurnisson c) [...]WAR / GOAs customer service [...] In fact they are in some danger of being moved from my 'laughable customer support' category to 'mediocre customer support' category [...]
Err - so your argument is that you're quitting one game due to some alleged customer service issues - not to switch to some game that is free of that but actually just improving from "laughable" to "mediocre"? You lost me there. ;-)
Originally by: Gotrek Gurnisson And in all my DAOC and WAR experiences GOA / Mythic have never openly lied to their customer base. I may not agree with all their decisions and behaviour - but they do at least have the decency to tell us about changes first and the reasons why they are doing it.
Hm - so you decide what game you play based mostly on whether the company does a bit of marketing spin (as they all do BTW)?
Originally by: Gotrek Gurnisson d) CCPs insistence on billing in Euros across europe (including non-euro countries) makes EVE very expensive for anyone in the UK.
That the pound has been loosing value due to recent financial market turmoil is hardly CCPs fault. Whether they charge in EUR or Pound makes no difference - as they would charge pounds according to the exchange rate- same as your bank does when it exchanges your pounds to EUR.
Originally by: Gotrek Gurnisson The Sterling-Euro exchange rate currently means CCP have effectively priced themselves out of the market for possibly many years to come.
I very much doubt that CCP priced EVE out of the UK market for years to come - but you're certainly wrong about the "themselves" part.
Originally by: Gotrek Gurnisson In the time it takes me to train one LV skill in EVE it is technically possible to level a char in WAR from level 1 to level 40 (level cap)!
Which says very sorry things about WAR doesn't it? Everybody and his brother at max level within a few weeks? What's the point of having advancement at all? Just have all chars at same level from beginning and get rid of char development.
Originally by: Gotrek Gurnisson So I am happily hanging up my boots for a while until EVE becomes affordable once again,
Why for a while? CCP will be the same company who's business practices you so dislike and EVE will still not allow anybody to ever max out all skills *ever*. The pound/euro exchange will recover - but that's the only one of your grievances that will change.
Originally by: Gotrek Gurnisson and until CCP have learned they cant just alienate vast swathes of the player base by making major changes with no warning or explanation.
I don't remember a single change ever that came without warning or explanation. All changes were on sisi before release and people always discussed them at least weeks before they hit TQ.
Originally by: Gotrek Gurnisson Fly safe everyone!
Thanks
have fun --- Save the forum: Think before you post. ISK BUYER = LOSER EVE TV- Bring it back!
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Glengrant
TOHA Heavy Industries
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Posted - 2008.12.27 22:12:00 -
[5966]
Originally by: oilio Well, that's my last character subscription that runs out in a couple of hours. Won't be able to post anymore, but will still read the forums
Why bother?
Originally by: oilio I'm already ú30 per month better off as a result. I'll watch the forums to see if it looks like Eve (and CCP's attitude) improve, but I very much doubt it.
I've seen many improvements during the last 5 years. If they don't look like improvements to you then EVE is simply not the right game for you. I hope you find a game that you like,
Originally by: oilio We'll see what 2009 brings for Eve. My guess is that all the wonderful things scheduled for March aren't going to be anywhere near as wonderful as people are hoping (Faction Warfare anyone? Our recent "Industrial Expansion" (EXPANSION! HA!))
Insofar as Industry goes - agreed - not the biggest and best patch ever. But people have been crying for CCP to seriously improve lag for years- and now that they did some people just whine about something else and act like nothing happened.
Originally by: oilio Anyway, good luck to all.
Thanks - same to you.
Originally by: oilio Just remember how much you're paying CCP,
The equivalent of 2 movies.
Originally by: oilio and what exactly you get for that money
More than 4 hours of quality entertainment per month - so I'm fine with the bang-for-the-buck situation.
I'm lucky to be within the Ç-zone - I can see how things might look less good from outside given recent exchange rate changes. --- Save the forum: Think before you post. ISK BUYER = LOSER EVE TV- Bring it back!
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Glengrant
TOHA Heavy Industries
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Posted - 2008.12.27 22:35:00 -
[5967]
Yes - I wrote too much in this thread. :-)
Reducing reply rate and wordage now.
have fun
--- Save the forum: Think before you post. ISK BUYER = LOSER EVE TV- Bring it back!
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Squirrrel
Gallente Squirrrel Industries
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Posted - 2008.12.28 02:33:00 -
[5968]
Originally by: Glengrant
Originally by: Gotrek Gurnisson
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- b) Apparent lack of action on the starbase exploit. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
That horse has been flogged beyond dead already. IMHO it's safe to assume that restoring old DBs and looking through mountains of data to follow money trails and verifying what's legit or not is a time-consuming activity.
Yet the update we received was when? 19th December? It may take a long time to wade through the data, however to put out another update just to say they are still investigating would be welcomed.
It's really just good customer service.
Originally by: Glengrant
Originally by: Oilio
Well, that's my last character subscription that runs out in a couple of hours. Won't be able to post anymore, but will still read the forums
Why bother?
Oh come on now Glengrant. You've been doing such a good job in your arguments up until this point. There's a variety of reasons why someone may 'bother' with reading the forums after they leave. Finding out how this and the starbase exploit all plays out are just one two of them.
Originally by: Squirrrel
Originally by: Gotrek Gurnisson
I guess people who pay for something don't like being lied to or patronised as if they were mindless children.
Nobody likes that. But don't tell me that you really think CCP is a big offender in this regard. Almost every ad I see on TV or in cinemas is an insult. That washing powder is really making my clothes whiter or more colorful and smell that much better than any other detergent before? Food never looks as tasty as on the cover.
That's a totally different argument. In that sense, it's just like the EvE teasers/trailers, that are not really a true reflection of the game. Unsubbed training was not an advertisment to me. Sure it may have indirectly been to some other people drawn to the game, however once they bought into it and it did what it said it would - it's a feature.
Are they a big offender in my opinion. Yes. They pretty much have been on a few occasions.
Originally by: Squirrrel
Originally by: Gotrek Gurnisson
The big deal is that they didn't just call it like it was from the beginning.
I agree with the latter part - but still don't get what the big deal is. Also I'm convinced that this thread would still be here regardless of what they said. OTOH nobody would think anything is wrong or unusual if GT never worked from the beginning. It was there for years - then they shut it down. The reasons given don't really make a difference. It's just something to cling to for lack of better arguments.
Er... eh? You've totally lost me there. Yes, this thread would likely be here regardless of what they said; you're right no one would think it was wrong or unusual if it never worked from the beginning; yes the reasons they give do make a difference.
They make a difference, in that, to be honest, I personally wouldn't have posted much in this thread if the lies hadn't appeared. That really ****ed me off. Yet, even if the lies hadn't been told, the arguments in this thread would still have a degree of validity, yet I dont't think as strong.
It's really not 'something to cling to for lack of better arguments' - It IS the argument!
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Squirrrel
Gallente Squirrrel Industries
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Posted - 2008.12.28 02:58:00 -
[5969]
Originally by: Glengrant
A company get bigger it gets a dedicated marketing department - and they just can't help themselves. They need to try to spin everything in the best sounding way they can come up with. I believe I just have more realistic expectations what the baseline is here. I judge companies not on some ideal everybody fells short of - but a reasonable standard that some can manage to exceed, while others fail even that.
Perhaps CCP in the end is not much better than usual - but I don't see how they are worse than typical marketing bla bla.
I believe you're perhaps more blindly optomsitic without wishing to be offensive Glengrant. Either that, or you've perhaps not come across the poor quality customer service many of us have; or possibly don't have many other MMO's to weigh it up against as a package... I don't know which it is. CCP have an uncanny knack of making me think "Oh, why did they do that?" at nearly every turn in recent years when dealing publicly with things.
Originally by: Glengrant
It's an MMOG. I dislike it when people several accounts to fill all roles (capital + cyno, miner + hauler, tackler + damage) instead of having mates to complement with.
I love the way that most people tend to perceive MMO's as being compulsary team games. Appearing in the same universe as other avatars of other real people does not mean you should team up with people at all. Back to the WAR reference you made in an earlier post about what it says about those games that you can technically level so fast... well, in EvE you can't. End of story. You can't power level or meta game your way to being a jack of all trades, master of them too and try your hand at everything. Well, not unless you use the ISK you generate to purchase a character or 4, which is one of CCP's golden decisions.
Everyone tends to recommend that new players sort out their learning skills first too, which a lot of new players will follow... what does THAT say about EvE that if they think they want to stick around for a while in the game; some are bored before they see much of the game?
The skills system used to be a feature. Many people loved it. Now it's become more of a chore, a bore and tool to fleece money more out of people with.
It's not at all because I fell out of love with the game that I appear bitter - It's the fact that I've come to feel more like a cash cow and an unpaid game-tester than a valued customer.
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Squirrrel
Gallente Squirrrel Industries
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Posted - 2008.12.28 03:02:00 -
[5970]
Originally by: Glengrant Yes - I wrote too much in this thread. :-)
Reducing reply rate and wordage now.
have fun
Oh and happy holidays.
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8Z 6
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Posted - 2008.12.28 08:13:00 -
[5971]
Originally by: Squirrrel It's not at all because I fell out of love with the game that I appear bitter - It's the fact that I've come to feel more like a cash cow and an unpaid game-tester than a valued customer.
signed
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Chani Fedaykin
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Posted - 2008.12.28 12:30:00 -
[5972]
i have to admit, since glentrant showed up, the quality of this thread has improved ^^ nevertheless, this is most likely my last reply for some time again (5days passed)...
Originally by: Glengrant
Originally by: Gotrek Gurnisson a) CCPs attitude to arbitrarily changing a major feature of the game, and then claiming it to be a 'bugfix'.
Care to mention what you are talking about? ...
most likely the unpaid training fix aka 'ghost' training
Originally by: Glengrant
Originally by: Gotrek Gurnisson d) CCPs insistence on billing in Euros across europe (including non-euro countries) makes EVE very expensive for anyone in the UK.
That the pound has been loosing value due to recent financial market turmoil is hardly CCPs fault. Whether they charge in EUR or Pound makes no difference - as they would charge pounds according to the exchange rate- same as your bank does when it exchanges your pounds to EUR.
partially agreed ... however they dont charge according to the exchange rate for us customers...?
Originally by: Glengrant
Originally by: Gotrek Gurnisson and until CCP have learned they cant just alienate vast swathes of the player base by making major changes with no warning or explanation.
I don't remember a single change ever that came without warning or explanation. All changes were on sisi before release and people always discussed them at least weeks before they hit TQ.
how about the 'bugfix' that is the reason for this whole thread?
Originally by: Glengrant
Originally by: oilio Well, that's my last character subscription that runs out in a couple of hours. Won't be able to post anymore, but will still read the forums
Why bother?
see Squirrrels reply...
Originally by: Glengrant
Originally by: Squirrrel
I guess people who pay for something don't like being lied to or patronised as if they were mindless children.
Nobody likes that. But don't tell me that you really think CCP is a big offender in this regard.
well, its enough for me to show my displeasment by not paying ... but thats just my choice
Originally by: Glengrant
Originally by: Squirrrel The big deal is that they didn't just call it like it was from the beginning.
I agree with the latter part - but still don't get what the big deal is. Also I'm convinced that this thread would still be here regardless of what they said. OTOH nobody would think anything is wrong or unusual if GT never worked from the beginning. It was there for years - then they shut it down. The reasons given don't really make a difference. It's just something to cling to for lack of better arguments.
its called crm ... which is (or should be) vital for a company dealing with customers. and its the reason why i decided not to pay a single account now. the thread would be there, but less 'massive' - and less players would be '****ed'.
have fun - as usual ^^
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Sylfamas
Caldari RRom Industries
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Posted - 2008.12.30 06:52:00 -
[5973]
Well this is probably the heaven of isk sellers... people will buy isk to pay their extra accounts because ghost training is no more.
Oh and because they are a company...they will start charging the expansions i guess...just like wow, only much cheaper-per-expansion, especially now when they are also available on retail. Good luck CCP in your quest for obscene profits. -----------------Signature-------------------------
I only have one rule: Everyone fights, no one quits. |
Garnet Alf
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Posted - 2008.12.30 16:52:00 -
[5974]
Edited by: Garnet Alf on 30/12/2008 16:52:00
Originally by: Sylfamas Oh and because they are a company...they will start charging the expansions i guess...just like wow, only much cheaper-per-expansion, especially now when they are also available on retail. Good luck CCP in your quest for obscene profits.
They already charge for expansions. When they have extra downtime to install these expansion patches, and then the patch for the expansion patch and then the patch for the patch, it is done on time we have already paid for.
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Alice Writer
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Posted - 2008.12.30 16:55:00 -
[5975]
I was disappointed about the GT decision. I have always been a casual Eve player and unfair advantage or not lapsed skill training was always the reason I reactivated my account over the last year, even though rl issues prevented me from actively playing the game. Now that its gone I will have so much less reason to dip into Eve again.
My sincerest hope that CCP will listen to the community and bring GT back.
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Squirrrel
Gallente Squirrrel Industries
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Posted - 2008.12.30 18:45:00 -
[5976]
Originally by: Alice Writer
My sincerest hope that CCP will listen to the community and bring GT back.
If it comes back it's unlikely to be because they listened to the community.
Their financial department is a better bet in my opinion.
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fried eggs
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.12.31 15:48:00 -
[5977]
Originally by: Squirrrel
Originally by: Alice Writer
My sincerest hope that CCP will listen to the community and bring GT back.
If it comes back it's unlikely to be because they listened to the community.
Their financial department is a better bet in my opinion.
Sad...but true.
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Fawziyyah
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Posted - 2008.12.31 22:48:00 -
[5978]
Happy new year to all of you.
Hopes of CCP to bring back off sub. training...
See you all next year.
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Squirrrel
Gallente Squirrrel Industries
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Posted - 2008.12.31 23:59:00 -
[5979]
Originally by: Fawziyyah Happy new year to all of you.
Hopes of CCP to bring back off sub. training...
See you all next year.
Yeah, same from me - Happy New Year to those that left already and those that stuck around.
Nearly made it to 200 before the end of the year - and in all that time, no reply from CCP to the thread. That's pretty sad to see, however understandable. Guess there's not much point them getting into an argument on their own forums with us - especially since the dubbed clueless-commandos did it on their behalf.
I'm also wondering why everything fell so silent on the Starbase exploit. 19th December was the last offical word about that, and no even an update to say no new evidence has come to light, or any further bans etc.
I hope for those that have stuck around that the new year hold something different, and regardless of my point of view or opinions, I wish everyone including all CCP employees, Ranger1 and Mr T0rfins and his good lady a Happy New Year.
/raises glass.
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Gorek Loc
Etherware Heavy Engineering
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Posted - 2009.01.01 10:52:00 -
[5980]
happy new year all...
Now if only we got a gift from CCCP for this new year... such as training with inactive accounts, like the intention was from the initial release. An offer that would make players get back to the game after a long time away.
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Leica Stroganow
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Posted - 2009.01.03 20:31:00 -
[5981]
A happy new year to all
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Dr Westler
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Posted - 2009.01.05 19:58:00 -
[5982]
Well that's most of my subs finally ended - only a few more days left on this one and then I'm gone too.
I do hope the weather specialists who have spent time looking into the Snowball/temperature issue fair better than the Economy Specialist.
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Gabriel Virtus
Cassandra's Light Caeruleum Alliance
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Posted - 2009.01.05 21:51:00 -
[5983]
CCP is phail. They are bsing through their teeth and they know it. They do not have a valid argument for the reasons they disabled ghost training (this was a word that they coined in order to make it sound bad). No one is taking anything, they are paying for a service that was taken from them without a decent excuse. CCP is complete fail on this topic.
-GV
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Dr Westler
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Posted - 2009.01.05 22:17:00 -
[5984]
Originally by: Gabriel Virtus CCP is phail. They are bsing through their teeth and they know it. They do not have a valid argument for the reasons they disabled ghost training (this was a word that they coined in order to make it sound bad). No one is taking anything, they are paying for a service that was taken from them without a decent excuse. CCP is complete fail on this topic.
-GV
Yeah but 45k users and some snowballs. They have been working hard on other stuff and making a good boast about their figures.
Wonder how many of those were 5 day trials.
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8Z 6
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Posted - 2009.01.05 23:00:00 -
[5985]
42,000
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Clone 3688
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Posted - 2009.01.06 08:37:00 -
[5986]
Originally by: 8Z 6
Originally by: Squirrrel It's not at all because I fell out of love with the game that I appear bitter - It's the fact that I've come to feel more like a cash cow and an unpaid game-tester than a valued customer.
signed
same here, this is the main reason im 2 accts lighter. oh well. thx ccp for making it easier for me to quit
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Anla'Lexie
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Posted - 2009.01.07 06:45:00 -
[5987]
You guys are truely twisted!!! Starting to turn into a corperate cut throat game just like all the corperate cut throat companies out their for their own selfish intrest rather than the gamer. Noone considers the **** gamers have to go through from power to cable to cell phones to rent to food to cell phone to the one $15 dollar mmo we can dish in after everything is paid for only to get killed over and over again by characters that have trained 4-6 grulling years and still you havent even come close to training all those skills. Your have evolved the game but training speeds never change the same grulling slow pace it has allways been...and 94 million for a +5 implant that might shave 2 days off a 30 day level 5 skill WoW i feel so blessed, not. You have really taken the fun out of this game as there should be something we gamers should enjoy while we aren't constantly dishing money at you people. Noone remebers the time mom and pop places used to send you flowers for shopping at their place. It's a shame CCP has been added to the corperate junkies
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Chris Stormrider
Gallente IDEON ANDRON
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Posted - 2009.01.07 10:27:00 -
[5988]
time for page 200 and post 6000... go threadnought!
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Wideen
Warped Mining Strip Mining Club
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Posted - 2009.01.07 12:06:00 -
[5989]
I agree with all the negative criticism posted above in almost 200 pages.
Really poor move, discrediting on your part and unmotivating on ours
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8Z 6
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Posted - 2009.01.07 18:34:00 -
[5990]
With this many pages, this many posts, and this many thread views, a cccp representative has yet to make any sort of reply or acknowledgment. Customer appreciation, ftw.
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Fawziyyah
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Posted - 2009.01.07 21:17:00 -
[5991]
I just want to say that EVE is dying for me... one out of three accounts, my RL is taking over, and I won't have incentive to come back... |
Chris Tao
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Posted - 2009.01.07 22:38:00 -
[5992]
So CCP do you have anything to say? |
Amitious Turkey
Gallente The Scope
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Posted - 2009.01.08 00:19:00 -
[5993]
page 200 yet?
:[ |
Baseline Model
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Posted - 2009.01.08 14:57:00 -
[5994]
Originally by: Amitious Turkey page 200 yet? :[
Not yet! :)
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Torana Dench
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Posted - 2009.01.08 15:37:00 -
[5995]
So here I was about to enter the details of my new Credit Card so I can continue my subscription of this MMO and I thought about the financial pressure then the light went on....
"I know.. I can just suspend my account for a few weeks until I get my next paycheck then pick up where I left off AND I can train one of those nasty 27day lvl5 skills "
Go to the page to suspend the account and cannot find any details... 'thats funny, I'm sure you can do it here somewhere'
Do a search in the forum and I find THIS!!!!
I have been reading for over 2 hours now and I could not add anything that has not yet been said, implied, or suggested.
Except this: It is probably a GOOD thing CCP has not added the ability to delete an account. Because I think I would have rage deleted by now!!!
Needless to say that my subscription will simply end in a few days and it may be many months before I return.
GRRRRRRRRRRRR |
Zebba
Gallente Northwind Research Agency
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Posted - 2009.01.08 15:48:00 -
[5996]
We are working on it. Because the issue is still there even in 2009. And personally: I'm still waiting for an apologize for the short notice. |
Liu
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Posted - 2009.01.08 15:49:00 -
[5997]
page 200!!!!!
Originally by: Apertotes tbh, boot.ini was overpowered and needed a nerf
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Irebura
Aliastra
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Posted - 2009.01.08 15:50:00 -
[5998]
Originally by: Liu page 200!!!!!
yeah!! we made it!!! i guess now its time for a dev answer
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Jobby
Minmatar UNITED STAR SYNDICATE
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Posted - 2009.01.08 16:13:00 -
[5999]
No answer/comments will be forthcoming. Since this sham I've combined 3 of my accounts into 1, and in 30 more days (just bought a few plexes to finish some training) I'll combine 3 more into 1.
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Zetjur Jilnou
Rapid Deployment Industries
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Posted - 2009.01.08 17:25:00 -
[6000]
Jesus christ, people are still *****ing over this?
Seriously, get a life. Complaining about not being given something for free is pathetic. Go get a job. |
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Liu
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Posted - 2009.01.08 17:32:00 -
[6001]
Originally by: Zetjur Jilnou Jesus christ, people are still *****ing over this?
Seriously, get a life. Complaining about not being given something for free is pathetic. Go get a job.
wow, way to embarrass yourself on just 10 seconds |
Mint Royale
Gallente Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2009.01.08 18:23:00 -
[6002]
Wow! I am suprised CCP has not conviniently lost this thread by now!
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stormyfs911
Minmatar Red Dwarf Mining Corporation space weaponry and trade
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Posted - 2009.01.08 19:59:00 -
[6003]
Originally by: Oliver Price Wah, I can't train skills for free anymore. Wah, I can't afford 8 alts anymore, and have to find people in game that can produce the services I need. Wah, CCP is really messing us over, I want to quit. Wah, wah, wah.
Yes, it technically was 'free training' if you apply the 'real life money is the only money that counts' rule, however the price of the skillbook was still the same, and not paying for that month means that you have one month less to reacquire your iskies to buy the next skillbook. Essentially you're kicking yourself in the ******* to save ú20.
Quote: Seriously, regardless of if it was a bug or a feature that CCP promoted, it was, unfair. There are free MMO's out there, and some of them are really decent. If you don't want to pay to play, find one. CCP still has the best ideas on running an MMO giving you free updates, and the ability to play for free via the purchase of GTC's, and selling characters for isk. Even though GTC's are getting ridiculous, but that's a supply and demand issue, not CCP's issue.
Feature. Available to everyone. Yes, free MMOs, but none are like Eve. Free updates? HEH. I'll get to that... And as for the supply and demand of GTCs not being CCP's issue... Is your memory really so short, that it doesn't remember it was CCP that shot down the 30 and 90 day GTCs? Surely that makes it very specifically their issue, as they caused it.
Quote: Don't get me wrong, if CCP ever decided to start charging for updates, I would leave to, not because I hate the game or the company, but because I don't want to pay for updates. That's the choice I make, same as you. Quit if you, but at least have some self respect.
OK, now we come to the crux of the issue... 'Free updates'. Yay. Time for some basic maths. (All prices shown are from http://www.shatteredcrystal.com with the WoW prices being the US/Oceanic realms) Eve 60 Day GTC - $34.99 WoW 60 Day GTC - $29.99
6 payments on each (year's subscription) comes out as: Eve - $209.94 WoW - $179.94 (a saving of $30)
Now, yes, I will admit that the Lich King expansion costs $39.99 so you'll have to throw in an extra $10, but bear in mind that the true WoW expansions (the only two they've actually labelled as 'expansion') contain more than a couple different renders, not to mention the FREE bugfixes/rebalances you get from Blizzard that aren't dressed up as an expansion. Yes, I'm looking at you SpeedNerf/Orca Expatchion.
BTW, that little popping noise you just heard? That would be me, driving the PIN OF TRUTH into your FACADE OF FREE EVE EXPANSIONS.
Good day. -----SIGGY TIME----- Owing to lack of Eve-related content, signature removed. If you would like to discuss this, please mail [email protected] - Mitnal
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Gabriel Virtus
Cassandra's Light Caeruleum Alliance
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Posted - 2009.01.08 23:47:00 -
[6004]
Originally by: stormyfs911
Originally by: Oliver Price Wah, I can't train skills for free anymore. Wah, I can't afford 8 alts anymore, and have to find people in game that can produce the services I need. Wah, CCP is really messing us over, I want to quit. Wah, wah, wah.
Yes, it technically was 'free training' if you apply the 'real life money is the only money that counts' rule, however the price of the skillbook was still the same, and not paying for that month means that you have one month less to reacquire your iskies to buy the next skillbook. Essentially you're kicking yourself in the ******* to save ú20.
Quote: Seriously, regardless of if it was a bug or a feature that CCP promoted, it was, unfair. There are free MMO's out there, and some of them are really decent. If you don't want to pay to play, find one. CCP still has the best ideas on running an MMO giving you free updates, and the ability to play for free via the purchase of GTC's, and selling characters for isk. Even though GTC's are getting ridiculous, but that's a supply and demand issue, not CCP's issue.
Feature. Available to everyone. Yes, free MMOs, but none are like Eve. Free updates? HEH. I'll get to that... And as for the supply and demand of GTCs not being CCP's issue... Is your memory really so short, that it doesn't remember it was CCP that shot down the 30 and 90 day GTCs? Surely that makes it very specifically their issue, as they caused it.
Quote: Don't get me wrong, if CCP ever decided to start charging for updates, I would leave to, not because I hate the game or the company, but because I don't want to pay for updates. That's the choice I make, same as you. Quit if you, but at least have some self respect.
OK, now we come to the crux of the issue... 'Free updates'. Yay. Time for some basic maths. (All prices shown are from http://www.shatteredcrystal.com with the WoW prices being the US/Oceanic realms) Eve 60 Day GTC - $34.99 WoW 60 Day GTC - $29.99
6 payments on each (year's subscription) comes out as: Eve - $209.94 WoW - $179.94 (a saving of $30)
Now, yes, I will admit that the Lich King expansion costs $39.99 so you'll have to throw in an extra $10, but bear in mind that the true WoW expansions (the only two they've actually labelled as 'expansion') contain more than a couple different renders, not to mention the FREE bugfixes/rebalances you get from Blizzard that aren't dressed up as an expansion. Yes, I'm looking at you SpeedNerf/Orca Expatchion.
BTW, that little popping noise you just heard? That would be me, driving the PIN OF TRUTH into your FACADE OF FREE EVE EXPANSIONS.
Good day.
/signed
|
EnslaverOfMinmatar
|
Posted - 2009.01.09 06:44:00 -
[6005]
Originally by: Zetjur Jilnou Jesus christ, people are still *****ing over this?
Seriously, get a life. Complaining about not being given something for free is pathetic. Go get a job.
go get a clue |
Zetjur Jilnou
Rapid Deployment Industries
|
Posted - 2009.01.09 11:53:00 -
[6006]
Originally by: EnslaverOfMinmatar
Originally by: Zetjur Jilnou Jesus christ, people are still *****ing over this?
Seriously, get a life. Complaining about not being given something for free is pathetic. Go get a job.
go get a clue
Nah, you would be the clueless one. Welcome to life, this is how it works. |
EnslaverOfMinmatar
|
Posted - 2009.01.09 18:55:00 -
[6007]
Originally by: Zetjur Jilnou
Originally by: Zetjur Jilnou Jesus christ, people are still *****ing over this?
Seriously, get a life. Complaining about not being given something for free is pathetic. Go get a job.
Nah, you would be the clueless one. Welcome to life, this is how it works.
lol you just double-phailed uʍop ǝpısdn ǝɹnʇɐuƃıs ʎɯ ƃuıpɐǝɹ ǝɹɐ noʎ
|
Saphirro
|
Posted - 2009.01.09 22:24:00 -
[6008]
Originally by: Zetjur Jilnou
Originally by: EnslaverOfMinmatar
Originally by: Zetjur Jilnou Jesus christ, people are still *****ing over this?
Seriously, get a life. Complaining about not being given something for free is pathetic. Go get a job.
go get a clue
Nah, you would be the clueless one. Welcome to life, this is how it works.
We know this is how it works.
Ignorant comes to thread, hasn't read it, misses point, posts like you did, looks like tit.
Congratulations.
|
fried eggs
Caldari
|
Posted - 2009.01.10 03:46:00 -
[6009]
Originally by: Saphirro
Originally by: Zetjur Jilnou
Originally by: EnslaverOfMinmatar
Originally by: Zetjur Jilnou Jesus christ, people are still *****ing over this?
Seriously, get a life. Complaining about not being given something for free is pathetic. Go get a job.
go get a clue
Nah, you would be the clueless one. Welcome to life, this is how it works.
We know this is how it works.
Ignorant comes to thread, hasn't read it, misses point, posts like you did, looks like tit.
Congratulations.
I don't think CCP alts or clueless fanboy's play by the same rule book though. CCP is right (in all respects) and their paying customers are wrong. Unless of course they agree with CCP's public statements and then they are both wrong. Or right (Hi Atari).
|
Vagel
|
Posted - 2009.01.10 09:36:00 -
[6010]
I just came back after a 5 month break.
Seeing that one of the features i liked the most is beeing taken away, I dont plan to reactivate when the account runs out again.
And why? Because my family and I travel. We travel around 2 months pr year, and during that time I plan ahead, and I used that time to get skills like "battleship level 5" and stuff like that.
I reactivated when I came back and I wasnt "5 levels behind" as I would have been in other games. This was what i LOVED about EVE.
and no - i plan to let my 20 bill rot before handing out 0.02 isk. |
|
Soma Khan
|
Posted - 2009.01.10 19:00:00 -
[6011]
Originally by: Vagel I just came back after a 5 month break.
Seeing that one of the features i liked the most is beeing taken away, I dont plan to reactivate when the account runs out again.
And why? Because my family and I travel. We travel around 2 months pr year, and during that time I plan ahead, and I used that time to get skills like "battleship level 5" and stuff like that.
I reactivated when I came back and I wasnt "5 levels behind" as I would have been in other games. This was what i LOVED about EVE.
and no - i plan to let my 20 bill rot before handing out 0.02 isk.
Some love the spaceships, some - PvP and the death penalty, others love the player controlled economy and the one server virtual world. For most hardcore EVE players it's all of those things and more.
Vagel "LOVES" not having to pay for using a CCP-provided service. Loves it so much it defines this game for him.
Different strokes for different folks. ___
|
pakiculo
|
Posted - 2009.01.10 20:59:00 -
[6012]
well first of all what i love about eve is that u dont need to be online for skill training that s one the reasons y i quşt playing wow when i was working i would not have much time to spend on internet and i was behind my guild but in eve its not like that. for years people have used ghost training.it might be on the agreement or some stuff like that i dont care i just look at the ethic behind it. i did not read all the 200 pages but i just checked few. all i can say is that its not fair to the CCP but i see that there are players who can not check the game for a long time but to be honest if ur an eve fan COME ON u would at least check once or twice a month. i m still doing my military service and i was away from eve for more than 5 months but i still managed my skill training how? simple call your buddy!!! for those old players i m sure u got few buddies in the game rite? coz u have been playing it for years sounds funny for me, your situation sorry
anyways but one thing thou, CCP should also make skill training queue if they r tending to keep the away players.By this way i believe they would not loose those players away for months and since they are paying i dont see any problem for CCP either.This might push the servers database but still is not it worth not loosing these players???the training queue does not need to be infinite just let to queue 3 or 5 skills thats it and maybe for those ghost trainers who transfers their chars to 1 account maybe u can enable training on all chars with expense of sp divident / characters training (if u r getting 2244 sp per hour from 1 char and with this mode if u train 3 chars make that char get 2244/3=831sp per hour)
anyways i believe players like me would agree with CCP's this act. for all those active players fly safe and enjoy the game o/
|
Saphirro
|
Posted - 2009.01.10 22:40:00 -
[6013]
Originally by: pakiculo but i see that there are players who can not check the game for a long time but to be honest if ur an eve fan COME ON u would at least check once or twice a month. i m still doing my military service and i was away from eve for more than 5 months but i still managed my skill training how? simple call your buddy!!! for those old players i m sure u got few buddies in the game rite? coz u have been playing it for years sounds funny for me, your situation sorry
That's fine, except it constitutes account sharing and is against the EULA or ToS - either way, one of the terms and conditions.
You could end up with your account banned, or one of those people you thought was your buddy ripping you off.
Nice solution. What do you have up your sleeve for global warming? That we all move to Mars? |
Georn
VIRTUAL LIFE VANGUARD Intrepid Crossing
|
Posted - 2009.01.11 10:55:00 -
[6014]
Originally by: Saphirro
What do you have up your sleeve for global warming? That we all move to Mars?
Since the Earth is flat, "global" warming is a myth anyway. ____________ even Carebears have teeth |
TheCartel
|
Posted - 2009.01.11 11:11:00 -
[6015]
/sign all.
|
unloadedx16
|
Posted - 2009.01.11 19:41:00 -
[6016]
/bumped and signed
|
Roto Rooter
|
Posted - 2009.01.11 23:04:00 -
[6017]
Edited by: Roto Rooter on 11/01/2009 23:06:16 It is very disappointing to see clueless posters regurgitating the party line about "free" service after many detailed explanations have already been posted regarding how the implementation of training in Eve actually works and how we view it.
On the subject of Eve population, after bouncing up and down quite a bit after the unsubbed training nerf and after deluges of banner ads, a new mining ship, alleged banning of POS exploit accounts and the 5-free-day return offer with $9.95 for the next month, online population on the traditional Sunday high water mark has now been up substantially for two weeks running.
What can we conclude from this? Nothing. There are too many variables, and CCP's obvious decision to stonewall this issue and tough it through naturally leads to having taken steps to attract new users to overcome the loss of accounts due to the unsubbed training nerf.
Now they are beginning to build the PR wave for the March expansion.
Ultimately, only those of us reducing what we pay to CCP may know for sure what effect the nerf had, and only on our individual contributions to CCP's revenues. For my part I can say that the unsubbed training nerf and the way it was handled forever stained CCP's reputation in my eyes, and added to a number of other issues to substantially reduce CCP's credibility and worth to me. I no longer keep my nine accounts active and I no longer care whether inactive accounts are training or not. Thanks, CCP, for breaking my addiction to incessant training.
I will continue to keep a modest hand in the game but will continue to root for worthy competition to come along and eat CCP's lunch.
|
Chris Stormrider
Gallente IDEON ANDRON
|
Posted - 2009.01.12 13:05:00 -
[6018]
Well, this year seems very important for eve, with the upcoming walking in stations, tech3 and true exploration (in my preferred order, reverse release order). On the other hand, all these issues have alienated me and made me more skeptical about CCP's actions in general.
I laughed very hard on the announcement of the upcoming expansion that was as vague as could be.
I recently started doing all the lvl5 advanced training skills so, for me, that means I'm in a wait and see mode.
I'll keep my eye out for a particular MMO that should be released this month.
I hope CCP finds a way to reverse all this bad vibe, but I'm not holding my breath and no longer feel and advertise EVE as if I had stocks of CCP.
Like many trolls pointed out, it's just a game. :P |
Soma Khan
|
Posted - 2009.01.12 16:30:00 -
[6019]
Man, with Roto Rooter rooting and breaking his addiction, and Chris Stormrider feeling alienated and doing lvl5's in "wait and see mode", I'm sure someone, somewhere in this cruel world is crying themselves to sleep.
Really. |
Saphirro
|
Posted - 2009.01.12 23:27:00 -
[6020]
The bubble may yet burst...
Google - 'Rata Nrnima bunyip issler'
Google - 'Rata Nrnima bunyip issler' |
|
OneSock
Crown Industries
|
Posted - 2009.01.13 11:54:00 -
[6021]
Well since I let my account lapse, CCP sent me a 5 day extension to tease me back in. Might as well use it, but no it's not going to make me resub. After this I'll prob play WoW and maybe resub a couple of months when the next content turns up. |
Gunnanmon
Gallente UNITED STAR SYNDICATE
|
Posted - 2009.01.13 15:53:00 -
[6022]
Originally by: OneSock Well since I let my account lapse, CCP sent me a 5 day extension to tease me back in. Might as well use it, but no it's not going to make me resub. After this I'll prob play WoW and maybe resub a couple of months when the next content turns up.
With a bit of luck they'll do another 5 day thing to entice people back then, too. And I can harvest my DCs on my research accounts at the same time. Everyone's a winner \o/ The Ghost-training vote thread |
Darkeen
Gallente
|
Posted - 2009.01.14 02:46:00 -
[6023]
Originally by: Liu
wow, way to embarrass yourself on just 10 seconds
NO, He is saying what the rest of us are thinking..
You all need to get a life. Its theie game. They created it. They modified it. Now change of die. Simple really.
|
Darkeen
Gallente
|
Posted - 2009.01.14 02:48:00 -
[6024]
Originally by: Vagel I just came back after a 5 month break.
Seeing that one of the features i liked the most is beeing taken away, I dont plan to reactivate when the account runs out again.
And why? Because my family and I travel. We travel around 2 months pr year, and during that time I plan ahead, and I used that time to get skills like "battleship level 5" and stuff like that.
I reactivated when I came back and I wasnt "5 levels behind" as I would have been in other games. This was what I LOVED about EVE.
and no - i plan to let my 20 bill rot before handing out 0.02 isk.
You can afford to travel for two months out of every year and your *****ing about the tiny amount of $$ it requries to keep the game runnnig???
Man, you've really got more issues than a simply Ghost Training issue...
|
Bo'Tox
Amarr Arkor Inc
|
Posted - 2009.01.14 02:51:00 -
[6025]
Originally by: Saphirro
That's fine, except it constitutes account sharing and is against the EULA or ToS - either way, one of the terms and conditions.
You could end up with your account banned, or one of those people you thought was your buddy ripping you off.
Nice solution. What do you have up your sleeve for global warming? That we all move to Mars?
Account sharing is simply a safety net for CCP so that if you complain about loosing your ships/ modules and isk because you shared your account then they can say "Too Bad, so Sad.." If you trust your RL friends then I dont see an issue..... EULA or no EULA...
Lawyers and Rules Laywers can flame that way.
|
Ezoran DuBlaidd
|
Posted - 2009.01.14 08:10:00 -
[6026]
Originally by: Bo'Tox
Originally by: Saphirro
That's fine, except it constitutes account sharing and is against the EULA or ToS - either way, one of the terms and conditions.
You could end up with your account banned, or one of those people you thought was your buddy ripping you off.
Nice solution. What do you have up your sleeve for global warming? That we all move to Mars?
Account sharing is simply a safety net for CCP so that if you complain about loosing your ships/ modules and isk because you shared your account then they can say "Too Bad, so Sad.." If you trust your RL friends then I dont see an issue..... EULA or no EULA...
Lawyers and Rules Laywers can flame that way.
if it's done on titan pilot accounts; then, it can't be wrong... can it?
unsubbed training is still nerfed, yes?
shame. soooo in all those other games i get rested XP, am i getting rested skillpoints now that eve nerfed their equivalent of rested xp?
you don't pay for rested xp do you? i just magically occurs right? but you can also have 50-100 characters in those games and level one thru it's rested xp while the others gain more rested xp...
but... you can only train one at a time on eve... so unsubbed training wasn't exactly equal to rested xp, but it was something. and something was better than nothing.
oh wait, all that is logical... that requires someone intelligent to read it and not just some random troll regurgitating "i no caN re4d, u r loosEr, g0 diIi'.
i'm starting to think ambulation will be out around the time darkfall hits retail. |
Sky Marshal
IMpAct Corp Tau Ceti Federation
|
Posted - 2009.01.14 13:02:00 -
[6027]
Edited by: Sky Marshal on 14/01/2009 14:12:18
Originally by: Darkeen
Originally by: Liu
wow, way to embarrass yourself on just 10 seconds
NO, He is saying what the rest of us are thinking..
You all need to get a life. Its theie game. They created it. They modified it. Now change of die. Simple really.
Maybe it is justly because they have a life, so sometimes need a pause, or change to another game to feel something new, and after that was happy to have a motivation to return to EvE ?
EvE has an advantage - Skills - and a disadvantage - Skills - in the character progression unlike all others games.
When you will understand how skills can be annoying for some players, and that CCP nerf Ghost Training but not Ghost R&D & Ghost ISK, and that it can be difficult to appreciate lies, you can re-read this topic to understand what they meaned and post.
Until that, just go away. |
Tivookzz
|
Posted - 2009.01.14 21:01:00 -
[6028]
And that post concludes the 6000 post mark. |
Saphirro
|
Posted - 2009.01.15 00:34:00 -
[6029]
Edited by: Saphirro on 15/01/2009 00:34:51
Originally by: Darkeen
Originally by: Liu
wow, way to embarrass yourself on just 10 seconds
NO, He is saying what the rest of us are thinking..
You all need to get a life. Its theie game. They created it. They modified it. Now change of die. Simple really.
Clueless Commando 12 O'clock High!
____________________________________
____________________________________ Google - 'Rata Nrnima bunyip issler' |
Lesique
|
Posted - 2009.01.15 12:21:00 -
[6030]
Its all fair and well you stop Ghost training, but if its only availible for paying customer. Why cannot I train all my other toons on my account. Hey I pay for the account so I can train... Or is this an over sight for cash is king?
I would suggest that you allow other characters to train at slower speed from your main toon.
I am sure CCP can make a new sales ploy... Or is it all about the money? |
|
TrDuff
Minmatar No one Cares
|
Posted - 2009.01.15 12:33:00 -
[6031]
This is a mistake, it just further proves that CCP does not understand their playerbase. It seems to make sense on a corporate level, by inplementing this you will lose customers, but it won't matter if less then half the unsubscribed trainers leave, CCP will actually end up making more money and have less work with the ones that do stay. What CCP corporate doesn't understand is that much more then half of these unsubscribed playerbase only pay some subs because of this feature. Yes most of these people will continue to play but now CCP will be missing the extra 3 subs per account that only existed because of this training.
This reminds me of the time a local service businessman was too busy with too many customers, so he started charging twice as much. He lost half his customers right away but ended up much less busy and with the same amount of income as before (he was on easy street). It also left a very bad taste for the remaining long term customer base who eventually went elsewhere leaving the businessman with only new short term customers that were more difficult to work with and would leave him on a whim without a moments notice. Leaving him with no solid customerbase and a lot larger advertisment cost trying to get new short term customers.
|
Anrui Koiju
|
Posted - 2009.01.15 12:57:00 -
[6032]
I'm just offended at the blatant lies in the first two paragraphs of the official statement.
If they'd just come out and said 'hey guys, the credit crunch is here, and we're not making as much money as we hoped, so we're gonna remove ghost training in order to get you to pay us more money, thanks!'
I would have purchased my next subscription here and now, honesty like that deserves money!
But no, they try to spout some BS about it being a bug, blah blah blah.
So instead, I'm considering not subscribing ever again. It's not about whether they should be 'allowed' to do this, its simply a case of customer confidence. I don't like being lied to, and as a consequence I am less likely to give my money, simple as that. |
Gunnanmon
Gallente UNITED STAR SYNDICATE
|
Posted - 2009.01.15 16:16:00 -
[6033]
Originally by: Lesique Or is it all about the money?
Is this point even in question at this stage? The Ghost-training vote thread |
Duskadantor
|
Posted - 2009.01.18 12:45:00 -
[6034]
Wow, 6000+ I'm impressed.
Way to go everyone.
You gotta hand it to CCP.
Their marketing team, pulling out all the stops since this thread.
March the 10th will see a retail re-release of Eve. Can only help improve their user base.
|
Shkval
Valiant Logistics Inc.
|
Posted - 2009.01.18 17:29:00 -
[6035]
yea....theyre going for quantity over quality. |
Ken LEEEEEEE
Amarr
|
Posted - 2009.01.18 18:47:00 -
[6036]
Edited by: Ken LEEEEEEE on 18/01/2009 18:47:10 none cares about this anymore... long story short CCP don't care what pilots think ! |
8Z 6
|
Posted - 2009.01.18 21:34:00 -
[6037]
Originally by: Ken LEEEEEEE Edited by: Ken LEEEEEEE on 18/01/2009 18:47:10 none cares about this anymore... long story short CCP don't care what pilots think !
With a 201 page long thread youre blatantly mistaken, altho its painfully obvious CCCP doesnt give half a sh!t what its customers think.
|
Katana Seiko
Gallente
|
Posted - 2009.01.19 22:35:00 -
[6038]
What does CCP mean again? Crowd Control Productions - does that mean "controlled by the crowd" or "we control the crowd"?
I think that 6000 posts should be enough to rethink ghost training... --- "Multiple exclamation marks are a sure sign for a diseased mind." -Terry Pratchett |
Cold Burrito
|
Posted - 2009.01.20 07:28:00 -
[6039]
Was using 5 day promotion to ghost a skill while in eve-low. Reactivate in February. Now leaving eve possibly forever because I was turned off during a swing time over what game to play.
|
Aina O'Sinnor
|
Posted - 2009.01.20 11:00:00 -
[6040]
Thanks god for this 5 day reactivation. I've been following this thread from day one of its creation.
I was about to come back, and reactivate my two accounts, cause both had their skill training completed.
I will not come back.
Three big mistakes:
1. 30 days GTCs removed from the market. 2. Ghosttraining declared as a bug and fixed it. 3. CCP not commenting on this thread. Silence.
I am ****ed.
See you all in jumpgate evolution. |
|
Saphirro
|
Posted - 2009.01.20 22:54:00 -
[6041]
Edited by: Saphirro on 20/01/2009 22:56:35
Originally by: Aina O'Sinnor
Three big mistakes:
1. 30 days GTCs removed from the market. 2. Ghosttraining declared as a bug and fixed it. 3. CCP not commenting on this thread. Silence.
Oh but they did!
Well, kinda:
Extract from CSM-CCP meeting 2.1
Formal Meeting Day 2 - Saturday 17th January 2009
I. Mission Monopoly On Standing http://evajobse.net/csmwiki/index.php/Mission_Monopoly_on_Standing
TL;DR: CCP understands the need to look into this, and there was a general consensus between CSM and CCP that the systems could be a lot more interesting.
II. Ghost Training http://evajobse.net/csmwiki/index.php/Ghost_Training Link: TL;DR: Up yours
TL;DR CCP apologise for the communication of how this was introduced, but it is not going to be added back into the game.
Stats Raised by: Darius Johnson Submission Date: 11/1/2008 Issue ID: 0103-04-0086
Summary CCP has removed the documented feature known as "Ghost Training". The nature of this request is to ask CCP to attend to the will of their customers and reinstitute this long-running feature.
Solution Turn it back on
Pros Players who leave the game temporarily will have a vested interest in returning to new skills that have been training while they were away. The playerbase will be happy. They are not happy about this change.
Cons I suppose there's a possibility that the system's somehow been gamed by people. No supporting information has been provided to explain this.
2 Pros, 1 con - a Con with no supporting evidence provided.
And who says CCP doesn't care?! |
Anope
Gallente HammerTime Production Group Ethereal Spawn
|
Posted - 2009.01.21 05:38:00 -
[6042]
Edited by: Anope on 21/01/2009 05:38:17 I'm a big floater from game to game, and eve is the only one I keep comming back to..
a huuge part of that is I have an incentive to join back up, I don't feel like the world has left me behind because now (for example) I'm finished Battlecruise V, and im comming back in a shiny command ship..
Fail on CCP's part
|
Mezikk
Earned In Blood
|
Posted - 2009.01.21 16:44:00 -
[6043]
6k posts about time to bring it back? or are a few thousand more voices yet to be heard?
eve is not a game people play non-stop, but are more encouraged to return to fly a new ship / use a new module which is not exciting by any means to watch train.
The reason for disabling was people getting offended at this, which everyone can see is simply a lie. The marketing people surely will realise this is not getting CCP more money long term? |
Skooba Steve
|
Posted - 2009.01.22 09:22:00 -
[6044]
Wow, first time I actually was bothered to read this as I didn't believe it, selling off and closing one char right now.
|
DeODokktor
Dark Templars The Fonz Presidium
|
Posted - 2009.01.22 11:14:00 -
[6045]
Originally by: Lesique Its all fair and well you stop Ghost training, but if its only availible for paying customer. Why cannot I train all my other toons on my account. Hey I pay for the account so I can train... Or is this an over sight for cash is king?
I would suggest that you allow other characters to train at slower speed from your main toon.
I am sure CCP can make a new sales ploy... Or is it all about the money?
Actually, The dollar has gained enough so that CCP now gets 1.8* what they once received (the markets will move back in blance one day tho).. As they said they save most of the money as euro/usd then they instantly made enough just through the conversion to retire a couple of staff members ;P... Of course, they could say "We didnt benefit cause the cost of food went up" but I doubt they gave all staff a 80% pay rise!
Some of us were hoping for things like "skill queues" as the ONLY reason they ever gave for not doing it was that people wouldnt play, well, now people must be paying to skill so I dont see why it didnt roll..
Oh well, I am sure they are enjoying the economic downturn as their company has made a mint because of it!. |
Denalak
|
Posted - 2009.01.22 11:52:00 -
[6046]
Just grabbed a quote from the 'outrage' topic.
"Remove Ghost training okay, BUT give us skill queue."
Now wasn't the reason they didnt add a skill queue because of Ghost Training?
Now that theres no Ghost Training can we at least get some form of skill queue?
Skill queuing should be a nice idea now that Ghost Training is gone. |
Eniy Oh
Gallente United Systems Navy
|
Posted - 2009.01.22 16:08:00 -
[6047]
Edited by: Eniy Oh on 22/01/2009 16:09:07 So recently the record of the most people online at the same time has been broken again, what does that fact spell out for all the predictions that disabling ghost-training would hurt EVE's growth?
Growth is btw a thing that happens even if while things progress on some side they regress on another side (if looking merely at the ammount of active subscriptions, this applies). Many players maybe leaving, but also a lot of players sign up. So it can still be growth and very sensible from a business perspective.
With EVE being a single-universe game where you'll always have tens of thousands players on the same server as you, I wonder if this move by CCP isn't also a way to encourage people to play the game more actively.
It's always sad to see your corp mates just log ocasionally for some skill changing, or have this awesome capital pilot only log when he feels like, "because he wants to take a break from the game".
IMHO you play the game or you don't. IMHO this game is also about numbers, there's not much you can accomplish just by yourself. So if it's clear you'll benefit more from the game's features (read: amongst other things, skill training) if you log on frequently, it encourages the players who remain to be more active and thus there'll be more group activity.
Just my .02 cents. |
Saphirro
|
Posted - 2009.01.23 01:02:00 -
[6048]
Edited by: Saphirro on 23/01/2009 01:02:54
Originally by: Eniy Oh IMHO you play the game or you don't. IMHO this game is also about numbers, there's not much you can accomplish just by yourself.
Not true. Many people play just fine by themselves, whether it's mining, PVP, PVE, manufacturing/researching or playing the market. If the only goal to the game is to get 0.0 space. fly in fleets and build an outpost - then you'd have a point.
Originally by: Eniy Oh
So if it's clear you'll benefit more from the game's features (read: amongst other things, skill training) if you log on frequently,
To a degree yes. However, again some people benefit from the way the game actually plays just by the occasional logon. You do realise that just because it's classed as an MMO (or MMORPG) it doesn't mean can't solo and have fun right?
Originally by: Eniy Oh
So if it's clear you'll benefit more from the game's features (read: amongst other things, skill training) if you log on frequently, it encourages the players who remain to be more active and thus there'll be more group activity.
Again, not strictly true. If the skills were experienced based then yes, frequent logging in would provide more benefit. They aren't though.
There is no more benefit to the actual skills of a character from logging on and setting a training skill and not logging on for a period of time, than there is for being logged on and/or playing 23/7.
The only difference is that now the skill progression is more Dollar/Euro based too. |
fried eggs
Caldari
|
Posted - 2009.01.23 02:46:00 -
[6049]
Originally by: Eniy Oh Edited by: Eniy Oh on 22/01/2009 16:09:07 So recently the record of the most people online at the same time has been broken again, what does that fact spell out for all the predictions that disabling ghost-training would hurt EVE's growth?
Growth is btw a thing that happens even if while things progress on some side they regress on another side (if looking merely at the ammount of active subscriptions, this applies). Many players maybe leaving, but also a lot of players sign up. So it can still be growth and very sensible from a business perspective.
With EVE being a single-universe game where you'll always have tens of thousands players on the same server as you, I wonder if this move by CCP isn't also a way to encourage people to play the game more actively.
It's always sad to see your corp mates just log ocasionally for some skill changing, or have this awesome capital pilot only log when he feels like, "because he wants to take a break from the game".
IMHO you play the game or you don't. IMHO this game is also about numbers, there's not much you can accomplish just by yourself. So if it's clear you'll benefit more from the game's features (read: amongst other things, skill training) if you log on frequently, it encourages the players who remain to be more active and thus there'll be more group activity.
Just my .02 cents.
I was going to break this post down point by point but to be honest; I am tired of caring about Eve. I'll just say this about the new record and how it reflects on the current state of affairs...it doesn't. We have no way of knowing how many of the 45K (or whatever the number was) players were on trials or the 5 day freebie. However, judging by the number of banner ad's that you now find on "prime time" sites and the statements from CCP stating how great the recent freebies have been, you would have to assume that there are some. This recent record reflects about 5% growth in a little over a year. What we will probably never know is what the ôCustomer acquisition costö was? In other words, did it cost CCP more to get this new record than they will make? They had a system in place that brought long time customers back after periodic breaks, that didnÆt COST them anything. They decided that they didn't want us back and would rather go after new blood. Right or wrong, it appears that the decision is written in stone. So, as I said, I am tired of caring. Eve was a great game (and I know that some still love it). For me, the party is over... |
Kaptain Kruncher
|
Posted - 2009.01.23 07:45:00 -
[6050]
I thought you quit. |
|
Zaldoza
Caldari EVEfan.dk
|
Posted - 2009.01.23 09:29:00 -
[6051]
Well if nothing else,i hope CCP have learned a good lesson..Dont lie too your costumers
I dont really mind the removal off ghost training,only how it was put out too the public..
|
Ezoran DuBlaidd
|
Posted - 2009.01.23 09:54:00 -
[6052]
ok, so since non-subbed training (recently renamed to ghost training so as to try to put a spooky feel to it so that people would fear it and be glad that it's gone...), is gone... am i going to start getting 'rested' skill point generation?
i mean.... that IS what non-subbed training was the equivalent of, yes?
so, since i can only have a single character per account, the rested skill training (same as rested experience gain) should simply be added to each account after d/t each day.
say, 2-3 hours per 24 hour day where you gain SP at double the normal rate?
or, is the next change going to be that you only gain SP while you're logged on AND actively using the skill in question?
|
Liu
|
Posted - 2009.01.23 10:58:00 -
[6053]
Originally by: Eniy Oh
With EVE being a single-universe game where you'll always have tens of thousands players on the same server as you, I wonder if this move by CCP isn't also a way to encourage people to play the game more actively.
It's always sad to see your corp mates just log ocasionally for some skill changing, or have this awesome capital pilot only log when he feels like, "because he wants to take a break from the game".
IMHO you play the game or you don't. IMHO this game is also about numbers, there's not much you can accomplish just by yourself. So if it's clear you'll benefit more from the game's features (read: amongst other things, skill training) if you log on frequently, it encourages the players who remain to be more active and thus there'll be more group activity.
Just my .02 cents.
dude, none of what you say has nothing to do with ghost training, but with offline training instead. people logging on just to change the skill are not ghost training. they are training offline. and offline training is here to stay, at least until it is declared an oldtime bug. |
Zaldoza
Caldari EVEfan.dk
|
Posted - 2009.01.23 12:01:00 -
[6054]
Only reason i and im sure many others choose Eve,is the ability to train while offline.Its Eve¦s strongest asset and would be suicide too ever change that,not to mention it would kill the servers forcing people to be on sitting afk in the hangars ..So im not too worried about them ever changing this aspect of the game.. |
fried eggs
Caldari
|
Posted - 2009.01.23 14:39:00 -
[6055]
Originally by: Kaptain Kruncher I thought you quit.
I know that you are "not the sharpest knife in the drawer" but you surely understand that when you cancel your account, you don't lose the time that you have already paid for. You do get that don't you? |
Kaptain Kruncher
|
Posted - 2009.01.23 15:11:00 -
[6056]
Originally by: fried eggs
Originally by: Kaptain Kruncher I thought you quit.
I know that you are "not the sharpest knife in the drawer" but you surely understand that when you cancel your account, you don't lose the time that you have already paid for. You do get that don't you?
I do get that. When does your account expire? Soon? |
Don West
Caldari Caldari Provisions
|
Posted - 2009.01.23 19:08:00 -
[6057]
I would expect a move like this from Sony Online Entertainment. But not from CCP. I just took advantage of the resub promotion and this already puts a bad taste in my mouth. But most lies do that.
|
Jobby
Minmatar UNITED STAR SYNDICATE
|
Posted - 2009.01.23 23:41:00 -
[6058]
Originally by: Denalak Just grabbed a quote from the 'outrage' topic.
"Remove Ghost training okay, BUT give us skill queue."
Now wasn't the reason they didnt add a skill queue because of Ghost Training?
Now that theres no Ghost Training can we at least get some form of skill queue?
Skill queuing should be a nice idea now that Ghost Training is gone.
Presumably you missed the reason for not adding a skill queue.
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Zarak1 Kenpach1
R.E.C.O.N.
|
Posted - 2009.01.25 06:31:00 -
[6059]
Can't wait for a release date on jumpgate
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TemplarMessiah Crusada
Gallente Aliastra
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Posted - 2009.01.25 18:30:00 -
[6060]
Wel, now we know who those 12-year old emo rage babies are. Can't believe people are whining about this so badly.
|
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8Z 6
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Posted - 2009.01.26 00:54:00 -
[6061]
Originally by: TemplarMessiah Crusada Wel, now we know who those 12-year old emo rage babies are. Can't believe people are whining about this so badly.
this is called customer feedback. your lack of the comprehension about this shows your familiarity with 12-year old emo rage babies. on that note show us your 12-year old emo rage ability and quit life. immediately if not sooner. post the live streaming video.
|
Mentaak
|
Posted - 2009.01.26 03:29:00 -
[6062]
this thread is the best place to pick up free stuff. cry more. |
Wet Dreamer
|
Posted - 2009.01.26 06:00:00 -
[6063]
I didn't even know you could do this.
I am dumb. I've been paying for 3 accounts.
Can I have ur stuff if you leave?
|
Krep
|
Posted - 2009.01.26 13:24:00 -
[6064]
I'm not unsubscribing because I happen to like the game. This does feel like a bit of an involuntary anal probing though. I used ghost training when I was sort of bored with eve and wanted a break. Select a high training time skill and next time I'd return *because* I knew I could fly a new ship or something soon. With that appeal gone I might not come back at all.
Also, if it all possible assume some EVE subscribers are not complete idiots. Two of your three reasons for doing this are outright lies. |
Ron Bacardi
SniggWaffe
|
Posted - 2009.01.26 23:05:00 -
[6065]
Can't wait for all 6000ish of you to finish your subs and leave... |
Qebh
Purifying Flame - Phoenix Reborn
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Posted - 2009.01.26 23:11:00 -
[6066]
Edited by: Qebh on 26/01/2009 23:12:00 I actually don't personally care about this one way or the other, as I've never really done the ghost training thing. I can, however, see pretty clearly the points most of the nay-sayers have brought up, as well as the fact that the given reasons are pretty transparent lies.
On a related note, I wonder how many of the people that threatened to /unsub one or more accounts (either here or in the other thread on the topic) actually did so.
It strikes me as somewhat similar to SOE implementing their Station Cash - something that outraged a fair portion of their customer base - but also something which, in the end, failed to compel more than a tiny few to actually cancel their subscriptions.
Addicts are funny like that.
Anyhow, I do hope CCP sees fit to reverse this decision, if for no other reason than it was simply the wrong thing to do.
|
Static Kinetics
Caldari GoonFleet GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.01.27 04:50:00 -
[6067]
-1 account, thanks for confirming my suspicion that CCP is utterly incompetent and has its priorities way up its ass.
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Saphirro
|
Posted - 2009.01.27 19:27:00 -
[6068]
Originally by: Ron Bacardi Can't wait for all 6000ish of you to finish your subs and leave...
He who laughs last...
EvE may not be dying as such right now, however, I really do think it's living on borrowed time regardless of breaking login records. More and more scandals will disenchant the playersbase and other space-based MMO's will appear that will facilitate greater player control and skill than the point and click, skewed universe that has passed it's golden age.
Tick Tock? I think so.
____________________________________ Google - 'Rata Nrnima bunyip issler' |
HermanGelmet
|
Posted - 2009.01.28 02:00:00 -
[6069]
Originally by: Qebh On a related note, I wonder how many of the people that threatened to /unsub one or more accounts (either here or in the other thread on the topic) actually did so.
I didn't unsubscribe, but I did start combining my chars. Less revenue from me is being gathered, that's a fact. Before this debacle every one of my numerous accounts was training permanently. No I couldn't care less about the training, and my wallet's looking far healthier as a result. Cloud/silver lining etc.
|
Ron Bacardi
SniggWaffe
|
Posted - 2009.01.28 20:54:00 -
[6070]
Originally by: Saphirro
Originally by: Ron Bacardi Can't wait for all 6000ish of you to finish your subs and leave...
He who laughs last...
EvE may not be dying as such right now, however, I really do think it's living on borrowed time regardless of breaking login records. More and more scandals will disenchant the playersbase and other space-based MMO's will appear that will facilitate greater player control and skill than the point and click, skewed universe that has passed it's golden age.
Tick Tock? I think so.
Three new PCU records, biggest expansion they've ever done coming up, available in stores as a boxed game again, constant growth. Yes, Eve is certainly dying.
|
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Saphirro
|
Posted - 2009.01.29 00:28:00 -
[6071]
Originally by: Ron Bacardi
Originally by: Saphirro
Originally by: Ron Bacardi Can't wait for all 6000ish of you to finish your subs and leave...
He who laughs last...
EvE may not be dying as such right now, however, I really do think it's living on borrowed time regardless of breaking login records. More and more scandals will disenchant the playersbase and other space-based MMO's will appear that will facilitate greater player control and skill than the point and click, skewed universe that has passed it's golden age.
Tick Tock? I think so.
Three new PCU records, biggest expansion they've ever done coming up, available in stores as a boxed game again, constant growth. Yes, Eve is certainly dying.
Well done for reading and understanding what I had written.
____________________________________ Google - 'Rata Nrnima bunyip issler' |
8Z 6
|
Posted - 2009.01.29 01:54:00 -
[6072]
Originally by: Qebh Edited by: Qebh on 26/01/2009 23:12:00 On a related note, I wonder how many of the people that threatened to /unsub one or more accounts (either here or in the other thread on the topic) actually did so.
i did...several accounts. cccp regularly sends me mails about re-subscribing.
|
TemplarMessiah Crusada
Gallente Certo Cita
|
Posted - 2009.01.29 08:46:00 -
[6073]
Originally by: 8Z 6
Originally by: TemplarMessiah Crusada Wel, now we know who those 12-year old emo rage babies are. Can't believe people are whining about this so badly.
this is called customer feedback. your lack of the comprehension about this shows your familiarity with 12-year old emo rage babies. on that note show us your 12-year old emo rage ability and quit life. immediately if not sooner. post the live streaming video.
There's a big difference between feedback and whining.. and this is whining |
Saphirro
|
Posted - 2009.01.29 18:49:00 -
[6074]
Originally by: TemplarMessiah Crusada
... and this is whining
Yeah... We don't mind you whining about our feedback though - we're adults, we can take it. |
8Z 6
|
Posted - 2009.01.29 23:49:00 -
[6075]
Originally by: TemplarMessiah Crusada ...and this is whining
we've noticed. please stop.
|
irar
|
Posted - 2009.01.31 11:14:00 -
[6076]
What! This post sank below number 10 on the forum charts! Impossible! |
8Z 6
|
Posted - 2009.01.31 17:14:00 -
[6077]
yea...with only 267k reads and 6,000+ posts you'd think cccp would get the hint it was a bad idea. |
Asika Kazama
Warp Asylum.
|
Posted - 2009.02.01 01:03:00 -
[6078]
I too, am annoyed at this. It would be great if they published these mythical complaints about this feature. Oh wait...
|
Asika Kazama
Warp Asylum.
|
Posted - 2009.02.01 01:04:00 -
[6079]
Originally by: TemplarMessiah Crusada
Originally by: 8Z 6
Originally by: TemplarMessiah Crusada Wel, now we know who those 12-year old emo rage babies are. Can't believe people are whining about this so badly.
this is called customer feedback. your lack of the comprehension about this shows your familiarity with 12-year old emo rage babies. on that note show us your 12-year old emo rage ability and quit life. immediately if not sooner. post the live streaming video.
There's a big difference between feedback and whining.. and this is whining
Dude we are letting CCP know our opinions. You however are whining about this fact.
|
Cybele Lanier
Amarr The Graduates Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2009.02.01 19:37:00 -
[6080]
Originally by: Shkval yea....theyre going for quantity over quality.
Could you define what you consider a high-quality EVE player? |
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Saphirro
|
Posted - 2009.02.02 00:47:00 -
[6081]
Originally by: Cybele Lanier
Originally by: Shkval yea....theyre going for quantity over quality.
Could you define what you consider a high-quality EVE player?
It's some poor sod who's happy to be a cash-cow isn't it? |
Shkval
Valiant Logistics Inc.
|
Posted - 2009.02.02 04:38:00 -
[6082]
Originally by: Cybele Lanier
Originally by: Shkval yea....theyre going for quantity over quality.
Could you define what you consider a high-quality EVE player?
cccp is doing whatever they can to get more subscribers without regard to those who are/were long term players who have a degree of brand-loyalty. Quality as in players who have been with the game for a significant period of time, have multiple accounts, and pay a significant amount towards cccps coffers. Quantity as in players who play for a little while then realize they arent interested in continuing to play the game and move on to greener pastures.
|
Ezoran DuBlaidd
|
Posted - 2009.02.02 12:40:00 -
[6083]
Originally by: TemplarMessiah Crusada
Originally by: 8Z 6
Originally by: TemplarMessiah Crusada Wel, now we know who those 12-year old emo rage babies are. Can't believe people are whining about this so badly.
this is called customer feedback. your lack of the comprehension about this shows your familiarity with 12-year old emo rage babies. on that note show us your 12-year old emo rage ability and quit life. immediately if not sooner. post the live streaming video.
There's a big difference between feedback and whining.. and this is whining
there's a big difference between reading with comprehension and just crying cuz the thread is larger than your favourite thread.
intelligent, non-refuted reasons have been listed time and again, and expounded upon time and again... ccp is now sending mails to accounts i haven't logged into for, literal, years? yeah, cuz that 5 days will really make me reactivate THOSE accounts. weird, can't remember the last time some of those accounts had any play time on them.
but yeah, $9.95 for that first month is REALLY tempting me...
on a serious note -- where's my rested skill point gain? the unsubbed skilling is the closest thing eve had to rested xp gain... so where's my rested sp gain?
must be in the same place that ambulation stuff is.
|
Dian Cecht
Omnicorp Enterprises
|
Posted - 2009.02.03 18:32:00 -
[6084]
Originally by: Ezoran DuBlaidd
on a serious note -- where's my rested skill point gain? the unsubbed skilling is the closest thing eve had to rested xp gain... so where's my rested sp gain?
Good point.
Dian
-gone from 4 accounts down to 2 because of this-
|
Elyssa Ce'Nedra
Equitatus Of Apocalypse
|
Posted - 2009.02.04 09:08:00 -
[6085]
Originally by: Saphirro
EvE may not be dying as such right now, however, I really do think it's living on borrowed time regardless of breaking login records. More and more scandals will disenchant the playersbase and other space-based MMO's will appear that will facilitate greater player control and skill than the point and click, skewed universe that has passed it's golden age.
Tick Tock? I think so.
Speaking as one of no doubt many new players who've joined EVE in the last month I can tell you that it isn't dead.
Long termers in any game come to the point you are at now, I should know because I declared bf2 dead long ago... and I'm still wrong to this day.
For those of you who are disadvantaged then yes, it would be rather annoying. But to the massive majority of people who only ever had the one account... well, we don't exactly care, do we.
This thread has been good though, it certainly makes me aware not to fall in love with CCP like I have with their game. The opening post in this thread got ripped apart in just seconds and displayed a fairly poor attitude towards their customers. |
Naok
|
Posted - 2009.02.04 12:06:00 -
[6086]
I can see some reasons why CCP can take this kind of decissions:
- the bottleneck in EVE is one of its best features: one server. The pros for the player you all know and enjoy, the drawback is that the cluster can't hold more than a very limited number of players (at worldwide numbers).
- as the number of concurrent players is very limited and the offer is higher (well, 40k online players are not much in the globalization era) CCP directors can focus on the "best client" ignoring features that you expect when you buy an online game, like several characters per account fully operative (in EVE you can't learn skills at the same time in more than one char, a core feature of a char, i.e. doing only one char operative).
- so I anticipate that this kind of changes and missings (with losts of players complaining) will continue until the players who leave are less than the players who come in.
This heads to the conclusion that sadomaso players are the "best client" for CCP. |
Hector Martyr
|
Posted - 2009.02.04 18:35:00 -
[6087]
I guess only $$$ decide what CCP does in this game... now skillqueues will be available at the cost of skill-training.
CCP previously have clearly stated that 'players should be online to play' and skilltraining while being online.
I guess it doesn't make sense to point to a source, since CCP have previously been known to change original information to fit their needs (the playerguide)!
|
fried eggs
Caldari
|
Posted - 2009.02.07 02:46:00 -
[6088]
About an hour left for me. It's late here so I'll just say goodbye...
|
Kaptain Kruncher
|
Posted - 2009.02.07 10:26:00 -
[6089]
My hat is off to you for following through. |
Makhan
|
Posted - 2009.02.08 02:51:00 -
[6090]
Jesus, people actually care enough about this garbage to get this thread to 203 pages months after the change was made? Who cares!
|
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8Z 6
|
Posted - 2009.02.08 13:40:00 -
[6091]
Originally by: Makhan Jesus, people actually care enough about this garbage to get this thread to 203 pages months after the change was made? Who cares!
your powers of observation are astounding. almost as astounding as cccps lack of them. |
Lord Fitz
Project Amargosa
|
Posted - 2009.02.08 14:05:00 -
[6092]
Originally by: Makhan Jesus, people actually care enough about this garbage to get this thread to 203 pages months after the change was made? Who cares!
Have a look at how many pages were created before the change went through, with the whole of what 2 days notice ? And it still hit records not even passed by devs cheating. The answer to who cares? Apparently more people than for any other whine, but not CCP. Which will put in perspective just how useful whines are about anything else. |
The Turkleton
|
Posted - 2009.02.08 22:22:00 -
[6093]
Well hell, I missed the memo. I just resubbed my account after the 5 day trial and missed this whole poostorm. Up til about 5 minutes ago i assumed Drone Interfacing 5 was almost finished on my inactive alt account. So that's about 17 days lost training time
Meh i can't say i blame CCP though. If it was hitting their bottom line it was bound to happen sooner than later. I just wish i had know about it 17 days ago... |
bigbillthaboss2
|
Posted - 2009.02.09 23:44:00 -
[6094]
Yeah I would have had Battleship lvl 5 finished but they didn't really send out a massive, clear message regarding the change. CCP should have at least let the skills that were in the "non-subscription" zone finished for the last time. hmph oh well this is long past and over with, would like my marauder though... |
ViolenTUK
Gallente Aliastra
|
Posted - 2009.02.10 01:02:00 -
[6095]
Originally by: Makhan Jesus, people actually care enough about this garbage to get this thread to 203 pages months after the change was made? Who cares!
People do care thats why there are 203 pages. |
Soma Khan
|
Posted - 2009.02.10 01:51:00 -
[6096]
Originally by: ViolenTUK
Originally by: Makhan Jesus, people actually care enough about this garbage to get this thread to 203 pages months after the change was made? Who cares!
People do care thats why there are 203 pages.
Do you think CCP is unable to see how many discrete accounts contributed to this "discussion"? ___
|
8Z 6
|
Posted - 2009.02.10 01:56:00 -
[6097]
they dont care
|
ViolenTUK
Gallente Aliastra
|
Posted - 2009.02.13 17:57:00 -
[6098]
Originally by: 8Z 6 they dont care
You might be right. |
Soma Khan
|
Posted - 2009.02.13 19:05:00 -
[6099]
Originally by: ViolenTUK
Originally by: 8Z 6 they dont care
You might be right.
___
|
Roto Rooter
|
Posted - 2009.02.20 05:06:00 -
[6100]
Originally by: ViolenTUK
Originally by: 8Z 6 they dont care
You might be right.
He's right. They don't care. Well, whether they actually care or not, they will not reveal the information and it has now been completely obscured by evolving events. I'm quite sure, though, that more than a few ppl have been doing what I've been doing: making sure that I pay CCP less altogether than I was paying them before they nerfed unsubbed training. So I can be sure that the new highs in online population would have been higher had they not nerfed it. It's a complete no-brainer that unsubbed training acted to bring lapsed accounts back, and bring them back sooner. I have no doubt whatsoever that quite a few accounts were consolidated, reducing revenue from those subscribers. CCP never stated a real and credible reason for having nerfed it, so all the speculations about account farming and whatnot have been nothing more than that: groundless speculations. The only thing we can reasonably guess about the reason for the nerf was an executive/management presumption that the nerf would "force" more ppl to maintain accounts active more of the time, and those of us who feel strongly are making sure that that does not happen in our cases.
And now we will have a form of skill queue, something they resisted for a long time. So one could say that CCP caved on the issue of a skill queue while standing firm on their decision to nerf unsubbed training and give up the account returns to active status that unsubbed training certainly produced. Why would they cave on one issue and stand firm on the other? No idea. Since they're tight-lipped about their real reasons for this stuff, we can't know. It's also clear that unsubbed training and a skill queue were never mutually exclusive. We could have both and the Eve community would be better for haivng both, but no.
We can only conclude that they are secretive beyond any discernable reason to be so. Personally I no longer trust them as far as I can throw them. I like the game but I have very little respect left for the people of CCP. I will not begrudge them credit for the things they do right while reserving the right to criticize them for the things I believe they do wrong. But I doubt I will ever actually like them, which I find sad. I would like nothing more than to love the game and love the people who bring me the game. But I can't.
And so CCP has made its decisions and are sticking to them, and I have made mine and am sticking to them. So be it.
|
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Fawziyyah
|
Posted - 2009.02.20 10:43:00 -
[6101]
Hello all, this is the last day in the last account (of three) that I have. Now I only be re-subing when CCP gives promotions, insted of resubing (times 3) for two months, and play along that time. It's a shame. EVE won't have nothing new for my chars when I come back, they will be with the same skills and can only fly the same ships as now. See you all in the next big promotion of CCP.
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Actual Hero
|
Posted - 2009.02.21 13:22:00 -
[6102]
Well guys I had a long time to think about this. Why have a specialty alt if you can't inact. train them. I just wanted to thank the CCP for allowing me the courage and push to come back down to 1 char. Now i have the time and extra moneys to go try out new online games that still care about the people's wants and needs that play and PAY for them.... Cheers CCP, your utter silence in this has made our decisions easier.
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Kaptain Kruncher
|
Posted - 2009.02.27 08:07:00 -
[6103]
Get off the cross, we need the wood. For T3 production!
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Fenris Ulfur
Tenacious Tendencies
|
Posted - 2009.02.27 10:44:00 -
[6104]
I knew ppl where whiny in EVE but jesus this just blows the scale. If this really messes up your game so much then just leave. K-space is crowded allready.
Who needs to be grinding 5 chars at the same time? Do you honestly think thats normal to have that many chars?
I've been playing since 2003 and never made more then 1 account so dont go lecturing me about history or how things have always been. But times change. Would you still be playing if the graphics were like they were in 2003 and the content was the same as back then? If not then GTFO. Originally by: Clansworth -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I am not much of a role-player, but I do see value in stuff being somewhat based on some so |
Belliana
|
Posted - 2009.02.27 14:07:00 -
[6105]
It's absolutely amazing how frighteningly butthurt people will become when you take away that bowl of candy you had out on your desk. Even scarier that they will go to these lengths to try and get it back.
There's more tears in this thread than there were in every theater that showed The Notebook. The only good thing about this thread is that it lets me see how many emo crybabies I won't have to deal with in this game anymore.
It also proves CCP's point, there really were way too many people abusing ghost training. Every new emotears post only confirms to CCP that they did the right thing.
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Barratacus
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Posted - 2009.02.27 15:30:00 -
[6106]
I just went from trial to full account. During the two days I was inactive before going full account I seemed to have trained a skill to completion. The skill was 2 days and 9 hours to completion.
Ghost training seemed to still work under trial -> full account activation.
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Ahnold Schwarzenegger
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Posted - 2009.02.27 20:12:00 -
[6107]
Edited by: Ahnold Schwarzenegger on 27/02/2009 20:11:50 They give you a 2-3 day mercy timer before they shut down your skilltrain.
Probably to avoid annoying people who forget to pay for their subs on time.
AHNOLD
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Demon Azrakel
|
Posted - 2009.03.01 14:08:00 -
[6108]
to the previous 6081 posters
even if you are not quitting...can i have your stuff??
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8Z 6
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Posted - 2009.03.01 16:50:00 -
[6109]
Originally by: Demon Azrakel to the previous 6081 posters
even if you are not quitting...can i have your stuff??
Its all yours.
Grab your ankles and smile...here it comes.
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Lactatious
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Posted - 2009.03.02 11:44:00 -
[6110]
Originally by: Belliana
It also proves CCP's point, there really were way too many people abusing ghost training.
It's somewhat difficult to 'abuse a bug' when that same mechanic was touted as a 'friendly feature' in their marketing information and player guides. |
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Gunnanmon
Gallente UNITED STAR SYNDICATE
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Posted - 2009.03.04 04:33:00 -
[6111]
Originally by: Demon Azrakel to the previous 6081 posters
even if you are not quitting...can i have your stuff??
A highly original post, worthy of a reply.
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Draco Argen
|
Posted - 2009.03.04 15:23:00 -
[6112]
I remember when I joined Eve back in 04, two things impressed me 1) You didn't need to be paying to train, and I thought this was noble, although you couldnt change your skills. Which seemed fair. 2) I was impressed when they kept my account regardless of how long i left for.
It felt like good customer care and encouraged long term loyalty. "you can leave eve, but were so nice you will probably come back on your own, because were cool"
Anyway, can we get up to 6660 posts and then stop dead? 666 didnt seem high enough, and 6666 ruins the number :D
ps, I used to ghost train with 1 char only, it allowed me, to you know. Have a life :D
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Roto Rooter
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Posted - 2009.03.05 12:10:00 -
[6113]
Originally by: Fenris Ulfur I knew ppl where whiny in EVE but jesus this just blows the scale. If this really messes up your game so much then just leave. K-space is crowded allready.
Reading comprehension failure.
Originally by: Fenris Ulfur I've been playing since 2003 and never made more then 1 account
Moron. Amateur. Having just one Eve account is its own punishment. Not sure, though, what you think one's number of accounts has to do with the unsubbed training issue.
Originally by: Belliana It's absolutely amazing how frighteningly butthurt people will become when you take away that bowl of candy you had out on your desk. Even scarier that they will go to these lengths to try and get it back.
Reading comprehension failure.
Originally by: Belliana It also proves CCP's point, there really were way too many people abusing ghost training. Every new emotears post only confirms to CCP that they did the right thing.
Total logic failure. No one, not CCP and not any Forum poster, ever provided even the slightest shred of evidence of "abuse" of unsubbed training.
Thanks, you guys, for showing your utter inability to think your way out of a paper bag and for showing that you didn't read the thread and have no idea of what the issues are.
For my part, I'm satisfied that CCP is suffering a loss of $$$ from me every month from what I used to pay them before they nerfed unsubbed training. Every one of my accounts is canceled every month and left expired for a while before I reactivate. That's just to keep reminding CCP in the cancel messages of my continuing displeasure and to make sure CCP doesn't get automatic renewals of any of my accounts. There's no limit to how long I can keep doing this.
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ice sect
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Posted - 2009.03.05 23:41:00 -
[6114]
Edited by: ice sect on 05/03/2009 23:42:08
Originally by: Roto Rooter
For my part, I'm satisfied that CCP is suffering a loss of $$$ from me every month from what I used to pay them before they nerfed unsubbed training. Every one of my accounts is canceled every month and left expired for a while before I reactivate. That's just to keep reminding CCP in the cancel messages of my continuing displeasure and to make sure CCP doesn't get automatic renewals of any of my accounts. There's no limit to how long I can keep doing this.
heh...i do something similar...altho i dont let them go for too long. stickin' it to da man.
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Vezarus
|
Posted - 2009.03.06 08:02:00 -
[6115]
Originally by: Roto Rooter Moron. Amateur. Having just one Eve account is its own punishment. Not sure, though, what you think one's number of accounts has to do with the unsubbed training issue.
Heh. This was funny. Just because some of us don't have specifically trained alts to do things other players can do for us doesn't make us morons. Sure, we can't have one account macro-mining while we have another doing R&D, while still another is out camping a gate somewhere in 0.0. God help us that we don't want to be totally self-sufficient in an MMOG.
One's number of accounts doesn't have anything to do with GT, unless they are specifically letting the account lapse just for the purpose of GT'ing it. No...everyone ran into sudden financial hardships, and wants to have three alts training while they pay for one...so they can put food on the table that month.
Gimme a break.
And then...it's unthinkable to say, buy an account for 1-2B ISK...pop off a long training skill every once in a while...maybe play it for a month or two to train up the ez skills, then turn around and sell it for 5-6B ISK. Gee...pretty good return for low investment. And that's just one scenario of dozens for abusing GT. Which, of course, no one is doing. Right? I mean no one has proven that this is happening, right?
Originally by: Roto Rooter Thanks, you guys, for showing your utter inability to think your way out of a paper bag and for showing that you didn't read the thread and have no idea of what the issues are.
For my part, I'm satisfied that CCP is suffering a loss of $$$ from me every month from what I used to pay them before they nerfed unsubbed training. Every one of my accounts is canceled every month and left expired for a while before I reactivate. That's just to keep reminding CCP in the cancel messages of my continuing displeasure and to make sure CCP doesn't get automatic renewals of any of my accounts. There's no limit to how long I can keep doing this.
The issue as I understand it is that GT was once a feature; now it's not. If CCP wants to downplay it and say it was unintended...hey, it's their game.
I about fell out of my chair when I read the combination of "inability to think your way out of a paper bag" and "Every one of my accounts is canceled every month and left expired for a while before I reactivate.
That's classic. Pure genius at work, there Roto. Now I'm not picking on you per say, but that remark about having one account making someone a moron just kind of got under my skin.
EVE is doing a couple of things. They're finding ways to dump massive amounts of ISK out of the game, (read rigs and T3) thus stimulating the economy. They just eliminated the T2 "bug" - funny how that's coinciding with a new expansion, and new partnered advertising with at least one large computer company that I know of - which will require a great number of players to dedicate themselves to T2 production, thus stimulating the economy.
And - speaking of the new expansion - CCP will add thousands of new players to the game that don't know, and could care less, about ghost training. They will be the ones to stimulate the economy, and stimulate CCP's pocketbook with new subscriber dollars. They'll be the ones to bring their friends with them, because they need people in thier corp to do specific jobs, and they'll be less inclined to create a few alts so they can be self-sufficient (read no GT to help push those alt accounts along for free), rather than depending on a few friends to play with them.
They'll help EVE continue to be...what it was intended to be. A wonderful MMOG that can grow instead of stagnating and slowly dying because a small niche of players was being catered to.
Lastly, if you want to have 5 alt accounts to do everything you need to do in the game, you still can. You just have to pay for that LVL 5 Battleship on toon 3 now. Dang...ain't that a shame?
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Anton Chigur
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Posted - 2009.03.08 00:28:00 -
[6116]
Edited by: Anton Chigur on 08/03/2009 00:29:05 After looking at this:
http://www.eveonline.com/apocrypha/index.html
Interviews section: T0rfifrans, the brain behind the ghost training removal.
Am I surprised he's using a t-shirt with the north korean flag on it? no.
Only a supporter of a country like that would do something this selfish, totally not thinking about what the population wants or needs.
Anton
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Roto Rooter
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Posted - 2009.03.08 12:54:00 -
[6117]
Originally by: Vezarus Heh. This was funny. Just because some of us don't have specifically trained alts to do things other players can do for us doesn't make us morons.
I made no mention of having specifically trained alts to do things other playeres can do for us. I do believe that bragging that one has had only one Eve account since near the beginning does make one a moron. It tries to obscure the fact that multiple accounts definitely make for a better Eve experience. I don't criticize ppl who have just one account.. there are many valid reasons for that... but to brag that one has only ever had one account is beyond silly.
Originally by: Vezarus Sure, we can't have one account macro-mining while we have another doing R&D, while still another is out camping a gate somewhere in 0.0.
If you think those are the only uses for multiple accounts you lack imagination.
Originally by: Vezarus God help us that we don't want to be totally self-sufficient in an MMOG.
Blame CCP, don't blame me. It's a fact that almost everything in Eve is better with at least two accounts. Even the ppl I know who constantly work with many corpmates have multiple accounts.
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Roto Rooter
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Posted - 2009.03.08 13:12:00 -
[6118]
Originally by: Vezarus And then...it's unthinkable to say, buy an account for 1-2B ISK...pop off a long training skill every once in a while...maybe play it for a month or two to train up the ez skills, then turn around and sell it for 5-6B ISK. Gee...pretty good return for low investment. And that's just one scenario of dozens for abusing GT. Which, of course, no one is doing. Right? I mean no one has proven that this is happening, right?
It's unthinkable for me. As to other ppl doing that, we have NO INFORMATION from CCP about it. No statements, no claims, no figures. So you're just engaging in unfounded speculation.
Originally by: Vezarus The issue as I understand it is that GT was once a feature; now it's not. If CCP wants to downplay it and say it was unintended...hey, it's their game.
Nope, that's not the issue. You evidently didn't read much of anything in this thread. The two big issues are 1) they lied and spun it about six different ways, and 2) they gave no credible reason for nerfing unsubbed training, which any idiot could see brought back lapsed accounts sooner and in greater quantities. Those who may have actively made use of unsubbed training to bring additional chars up to speed had to pay at least 1/3 to 1/2 of the months in a year to be able to do it, so nothing about it was free in any way. Then too, it has been explained that unsubbed training represented zero load on the Eve servers. The nerf actually causes more load than unsubbed training ever did. But you could have read all of this in the thread.
And a vendor lying to me is not OK with me although it appears to be perfectly OK with you if they lie to you.
Originally by: Vezarus I about fell out of my chair when I read the combination of "inability to think your way out of a paper bag" and "Every one of my accounts is canceled every month and left expired for a while before I reactivate."
That's classic. Pure genius at work, there Roto. Now I'm not picking on you per say, but that remark about having one account making someone a moron just kind of got under my skin.
Yeah, what don't you understand about it? While I choose to remain in the game I also choose to prevent automatic extension and I choose to shave a few days off each account each month. I'm making sure that CCP gets less $$$ from me than they got before the unsubbed training nerf. And they hear the reason for it every month in every account in every cancel message. It's my money and I choose to do it this way.
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Vezarus
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Posted - 2009.03.08 20:45:00 -
[6119]
Originally by: Roto Rooter It's unthinkable for me. As to other ppl doing that, we have NO INFORMATION from CCP about it. No statements, no claims, no figures. So you're just engaging in unfounded speculation.
No, not speculation. Just hypothesis. Because no one is doing this. It's unthinkable.
Originally by: Roto Rooter Nope, that's not the issue. You evidently didn't read much of anything in this thread. The two big issues are 1) they lied and spun it about six different ways, and 2) they gave no credible reason for nerfing unsubbed training, which any idiot could see brought back lapsed accounts sooner and in greater quantities. Those who may have actively made use of unsubbed training to bring additional chars up to speed had to pay at least 1/3 to 1/2 of the months in a year to be able to do it, so nothing about it was free in any way. Then too, it has been explained that unsubbed training represented zero load on the Eve servers. The nerf actually causes more load than unsubbed training ever did. But you could have read all of this in the thread.
And a vendor lying to me is not OK with me although it appears to be perfectly OK with you if they lie to you.
Read what I said. It WAS a feature, now it's not. I don't disagree with you that it was once labeled a feature, that the feature was taken away, and that it was spun.
The points I was making in my post were that: It's CCP's game. The loss players due to GT being taken away are negligible. GT has numerous ways of being abused, and CCP doesn't have to prove a thing; we all know it's being done.
Originally by: Roto Rooter Yeah, what don't you understand about it? While I choose to remain in the game I also choose to prevent automatic extension and I choose to shave a few days off each account each month. I'm making sure that CCP gets less $$$ from me than they got before the unsubbed training nerf. And they hear the reason for it every month in every account in every cancel message. It's my money and I choose to do it this way.
In light of the new expansion, do you think your semi-boycott makes the least bit of difference to their bottom line? The point I was makings is that they are STILL getting your money. If you want to make a complete statement, quit the game. If enough subscribers did that and affected CCP's bottom line, they might rethink it.
But...that's not going to happen. GT was a feature for a very small number of players. Most of us morons only hold one account anyway, and really don't care that our character doesn't skill up if we can't afford to play for a month or two here and there. Tons of people that were PO'd about GT sold their alt accounts to people that can afford to advance the alts without the benefit of GT, INCREASING CCP's bottom line in that aspect. I thought it was a rather brilliant move by CCP to allow the buying and selling of accounts. They knew they couldn't stop it...no MMOG yet has overcome that problem. Instead, they chose to take advantage of it and bank on the fact that buyers would keep those accounts consistently active. Not to mention the fact that Plexes were introduced, allowing the sellers to pay for the accounts they could with the earned ISK from selling alts. (Which also ties into GT benefiting players without producing actual income for CCP, but I'll leave that one to your imagination.) I'll bet it's working, too. I know dozens of players that have bought alt accounts, and keep them active every month.
GT is gone. Where it once was good business sense for CCP, it has now become bad business sense. Any company in their right mind would have done the same thing. Sure, you may be upset that it happened, and furious at the spin, but it's not coming back. Period.
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Erim Solfara
Amarr House of Solfara
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Posted - 2009.03.11 11:22:00 -
[6120]
I lost track of this a while back, and it's now running over 200 pages, has there been any official word on this recently? Or has the 'I don't know how they can just ignore this much longer' bemuzement continued?
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gpfwestie
Gallente The Scope
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Posted - 2009.03.11 22:36:00 -
[6121]
I find it difficult to believe it made any business sense to remove it.
My character (this one) was Ghost Training heavy drones V when the nerf hit, I'd got bored of playing the game but planned to sub back in for a month to start some more training after that skill finished.
Instead there was no reason for me to sub again, so 5 months went buy till I activated the account this week.
Judging by the number of responses in this thread, I was not the only person who had tired of the game and only paid a subscription every few months to start another skill training.
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Zannu 2
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Posted - 2009.03.12 09:59:00 -
[6122]
You can still ghost train in eve.
Though this time is no longer infinite, you can still skill train without cost.
I have found 3 days quite easy to achieve, but have heard that the cut-off time is closer to 5 days.
Would people mind posting how long they have let their account lapse, before skill training halted?
I think this information would be beneficial to many players, who would like to know how long their account can lapse before having to renew their sub, without losing skill points in the process.
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AndrewWigin
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Posted - 2009.03.13 09:01:00 -
[6123]
1st sorry for my english its not my born language The game will lost a lot :( Few of my friends already quit and no point to play alone here so probably soon i will quit too. I understand that all is for $ but probably the better way is to find new players not to lose already registred.
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Nianda SeCann
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Posted - 2009.03.13 13:49:00 -
[6124]
Originally by: AndrewWigin 1st sorry for my english its not my born language The game will lost a lot :( Few of my friends already quit and no point to play alone here so probably soon i will quit too. I understand that all is for $ but probably the better way is to find new players not to lose already registred.
I've just had to make the choice to either quit eve or another mmo. Didn't want to leave this game after nearly 4yrs of playing but due to costs and CCP slowly dumbing eve down I choose the other. Had the ghost training feature been kept in game then I would of payed for every other month and played on them months and trained in the "off-eve months".
CCP, 200+ pages says something, you've built up a nice little game here, don't sell it all away because of Atari rules
PS bring back the little touches that made this game like the pleasurehub & quafe girl, and ditch Atari, you was doing fine without them, oh yeah and sack yer PR, hes the idiot whos flamed these 200+ pages, he might play eve, but everytime I've seen him all i can think is get yer head out yer .......
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Komiliya Jenius
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Posted - 2009.03.13 15:53:00 -
[6125]
The partnership with Atari is a mistake, more than likely Atari gave them a freebie.
Seriously, Ghost Training kept us more in the game, gave people a break in Real Life, instead of constant moaning groaning over watching Eve 24/7, kinda like WoW.
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stormyfs911
Minmatar Red Dwarf Mining Corporation The Elders Alliance
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Posted - 2009.03.16 08:59:00 -
[6126]
Originally by: Komiliya Jenius The partnership with Atari is a mistake, more than likely Atari gave them a freebie.
Seriously, Ghost Training kept us more in the game, gave people a break in Real Life, instead of constant moaning groaning over watching Eve 24/7, kinda like WoW.
This. Oh, sweet jesus, THIS.
I was quite lucky, I reactivated this account in December, and by January had to go travelling for work, so I set a decent skill through Jan, and have only just resubbed, mainly to say hello to old corpmates, and unless I somehow am rapidly impressed by Apocrypha, to give my stuff to them (no, not you) and that'll be it for Eve for me. Things have conspired to make Eve a lot less enjoyable, and I'm not entirely sure how much more the allure of smacktalking people in corp chat will hold me to this game.
The 'Privateer Nerf' was when it really started going downhill for me, then missile nerfs, sensor boosters/damps nerf, nano-nerf, then the rise, fall and resurgence of passive shield tanking... Up to the point where now, you might as well strike any armour tanking kit off the market in anywhere except Domain. Yes, people still armour tank, but when a ship with bonuses to active armour is still superior with a passive shield setup, you need to take a look at it. People whined at nanos, despite having all the tools they needed to defeat them, so now, I'm going to whine at passive shield tanks, where the only counter seems to be "bring more friends and/or ECM" diluting the 'we love small-gang warfare' rhetoric that EveDevs chanted not so long ago...
Oh, and the super-duper skill queue, that people longed for, and only got AFTER the removal of the Ghost Training FEATURE is pretty **** once you get half-decent skills, as they'll all take much more than 24hrs to run through, giving you the dreaded 'skill queue is full' message.
I guess Atari told them to remove the 'Hard Mode' to make the game more accessible, and increase revenue further. You don't even have to pick a damn career anymore when creating a new character. THAT WAS HALF THE FUN OF THE DAMN GAME. -----SIGGY TIME----- Owing to lack of Eve-related content, signature removed. If you would like to discuss this, please mail [email protected] - Mitnal
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Doctor Penguin
Amarr Shadow Command Tenth Legion
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Posted - 2009.03.16 13:09:00 -
[6127]
Edited by: Doctor Penguin on 16/03/2009 13:09:43 ...
This thread is still going? You sad, sad people. It's been like 7 months or something. ________________________________________________
http://eve.drome.nl/CaodCleaner/ Help make CAOD readable. |
ice sect
|
Posted - 2009.03.17 01:43:00 -
[6128]
Originally by: Doctor Penguin Edited by: Doctor Penguin on 16/03/2009 13:09:43 ...
This thread is still going? You sad, sad people. It's been like 7 months or something.
The only thing more sad than cccp's lack of consideration for its player community (customers) is your continued existence on this planet. Get off.
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Dan Dynamite
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Posted - 2009.03.20 23:16:00 -
[6129]
Time to put this back up again.
We do not forget, we are waiting for an appologie from CCP to how this matter as been handeled.
We must stand in our point, un-sub training was a good feature to all who want to take a break from EVE, it was making us come back faster, now it don't matter if we came back one week later or six months after the predicted time for a skill to be finished, it will be at the same completion status (give or take a few days) as it was when the account expired.
Thanks CCP for giving US the oportunity to avoid spending our money on YOU.
We will be coming back... eventualy
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john roe
Children of Gjallarhorn
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Posted - 2009.03.22 16:37:00 -
[6130]
CCCP, we still remember and some of us are still waiting for an apology.
(neh, i'm just playing. i know you dont give a fock about community. btw. it's been over 9 months now since i'm unable to play this stupid game due to CTD/connection logging issues ON YOUR SIDE, ppl!)
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Gabriel Virtus
hirr Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2009.03.25 10:21:00 -
[6131]
CCP epic fail.
Eventually, I am going to reach my limit with CCP crap that seems to spew out like routinely every few months. I do like the skill que, although it has failed on me a few times.
+1 for recent additions and changes in apocrypha though.
-GV
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Flinchey
Amarr
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Posted - 2009.03.26 07:45:00 -
[6132]
CCP introduced the queue as a sort of compensation for removing GT right?
so they could at least make sure the bloody thing is glitch free.. i've lost nearing on a full day of skill training time now due to stuffups
just another kick in the teeth eh?
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Laur Khal
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Posted - 2009.03.26 14:51:00 -
[6133]
In real-life i am frequently required to do a lot of travelling and occasionally short-term relocations around europe for periods exceeding a month. For relocations exceeding a month, i have been unsubscribing my account, as there is obviously no point in paying for a month's subscription if i know i will have no chance to play.
This change screws me over big-time. At least before i could rest assured that even though i am away from home & eve for > 1 month, that my character was still progressing.
Accordingly, the next assignment i get that drags me away from home for > 1 month will probably be the end of EVE for me for good.
EVE's biggest draw to me, as a casual, was that i was not overly penalised for *being* a casual -- sure i never had much isk, but at least my skills kept pace with others in the game.
it is hard to see the business sense in this change. Noone in their right mind will continue paying for an account they're not able to play just to keep skills ticking over.
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Soma Khan
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Posted - 2009.03.27 00:54:00 -
[6134]
Originally by: Laur Khal EVE's biggest draw to me, as a casual, was that i was not overly penalised for *being* a casual -- sure i never had much isk, but at least my skills kept pace with others in the game.
EVE does not penalize casual gameplay - you pay a relatively nominal fee, you get the service. EVE does penalize freeloaders and character farmers.
Originally by: Laur Khal it is hard to see the business sense in this change. Noone in their right mind will continue paying for an account they're not able to play just to keep skills ticking over.
So, you don't think it's sane to pay for something you don't use to your satisfaction, yet you think it's sane for a company to continue to provide a service for free. ___
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Jasmin McGregor
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Posted - 2009.04.07 13:50:00 -
[6135]
We did not forget CCP...
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Thoma Katch
Gallente University of Caille
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Posted - 2009.04.07 21:21:00 -
[6136]
I read the reasoning behind it and its completely fair. Its like renting a farmers field for a month while you plant crops then expecting to be able to come back a few months later, collect your vegetables and sell them at the market for a tidy profit. The farmer would be fully entitled to either take those crops for himself or just plough them into the soil and plant something new since they have recieved no rent for the duration over which the plants had been growing.
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Jasmin McGregor
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Posted - 2009.04.08 11:23:00 -
[6137]
Originally by: Thoma Katch I read the reasoning behind it and its completely fair. Its like renting a farmers field for a month while you plant crops then expecting to be able to come back a few months later, collect your vegetables and sell them at the market for a tidy profit. The farmer would be fully entitled to either take those crops for himself or just plough them into the soil and plant something new since they have recieved no rent for the duration over which the plants had been growing.
Thing is you missed the point of this thread.
Although it was shown how skill training actually works we accept CCPs decision.
But we do not accept the way they pulled this through. "Ghost Training" was an advertised feature over and over again. Now all the sudden this is a bug? Worst of all is their way to communicate this change: other then the dev log there was nothing. 5 days notice on the dev blog, nothing else. Even now people reactivate their accounts to figure out the feature was taken away.
Of course you understand CCP - we do as well - but you did not take any time to realize the above points.
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Alexis Rochelle
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Posted - 2009.04.08 14:57:00 -
[6138]
Edited by: Alexis Rochelle on 08/04/2009 14:58:03 I think it's complete bullcrap, and really doesn't make me feel like playing EVE any more.
The only reason I could tolerate spending $15 a month on EVE for as often as I have time to play is because I knew I could take a break for a while while my skills coasted along. Then I could just binge-play on a weekend and take another break.
I'm already not renewing, and I'm not somebody who has invested many years into EVE so I'm quite willing to let the game go if I don't feel that I am a customer am being given incentive to return.
I'm sure I'll be back if they reinstitute ghost training, but otherwise they will be lucky to get 2 months in a year from me.
Cheers, CCP, you've created another unsatisfied customer.
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Ky Vatta
Caldari Majority 12
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Posted - 2009.04.13 14:19:00 -
[6139]
Edited by: Ky Vatta on 13/04/2009 14:19:43
Originally by: Alexis Rochelle Edited by: Alexis Rochelle on 08/04/2009 14:58:03 I think it's complete bullcrap, and really doesn't make me feel like playing EVE any more.
The only reason I could tolerate spending $15 a month on EVE for as often as I have time to play is because I knew I could take a break for a while while my skills coasted along. Then I could just binge-play on a weekend and take another break.
I'm already not renewing, and I'm not somebody who has invested many years into EVE so I'm quite willing to let the game go if I don't feel that I am a customer am being given incentive to return.
I'm sure I'll be back if they reinstitute ghost training, but otherwise they will be lucky to get 2 months in a year from me.
Cheers, CCP, you've created another unsatisfied customer.
You get what you pay for, or in this case you get nothing for not paying, simple, isn`t it?? In many ways ghost-training was an unintentional exploit, but not really enforceable as such, as it was CCP`s fault creating it in the first place, so while it worked, you got free training. Name me any other online game you get free training while not paying??? So, they fixed the loophole, and people like you are still looking at the dentistry of a past gift-horse....
---
Self-confessed Carebear, and proud of it |
Kaptain Kruncher
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Posted - 2009.04.22 10:01:00 -
[6140]
I like to stop in here occassionally to see how much more stupid this discussion has become.
This thread is kickin' like Bruce Lee, oh yeah, he died along time ago too.
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wingeddragan
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Posted - 2009.04.23 17:52:00 -
[6141]
As a 4-year old EVE enjoyer, I have use Ghost training sometimes, mostly without knowing it, my sub ended and some skill was training. It is true that some people abuse this bug for their own sake, but hey, CCP even told us it was possible way back. On the other hand, WHY in what name, have you been taking down this bug at this point? Because you want to make the 'Economic Crysis' hit even harder for those who don't have lots of money to maintain multiple accounts? The ghost training made it possible to let "low-budget" players run 2 or 3 accounts with just paying for one, but still gaining skills.
As a student I don't have always enough money to fund two accounts, and it was always a pleasure to see a skill that had been finished so you can use a new nice module/ship or whatever. I was thinking about creating a 3rd account, but now I've seen this sh*t, I guess I'll stick to my present 2 account, mayby I will sell one of them soon if this "bug-fix" is still active.
And about Atari, well, I guess I don't have to say so much anymore about it, regarding to lots of posts
CCP, mayby you won't or can't think ahead, but you are killing yourself and your reputation. People will notic when a game losses, let's say, 40% of all subscribers??? Hey EVE is F*cked, let's play a different game, if you, CCP, keep killing the game with all nerfs, GTC crap, and now this thing I am sure your wallet will run dry.
Mayby it is good that such a thing happens, mayby it will make clear that game dev's SOMETIMES should listen to their customers, because they make sure that the game keeps running. Nor CCP, nor the game devs, we made it possible that the game has been around the top MMO's in the world since 2003. You should keep that in mind
I won't whine, because obviously, CCP has made their stance and I hope, I really, really do, that CCP will listen to us at some point. Soon or later, just once will make me a bit happier. And of course, not only listen but act as well...(Hmm that will probably be a miracle, ah well mayby CCP will have a good mood once in their lifetime, who knows...)
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MkVII
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Posted - 2009.04.30 19:48:00 -
[6142]
Edited by: MkVII on 30/04/2009 19:49:11 lol, you are still whining about ghost training? Nothing changed except fact that you have to pay for every day your character train skills, like in every other mmo, like it should be. You still can leave account for 2 months without attention, with char skilling, so i dont really understand whats goin' on. Oh, i get it, you cant grow chars for sell, damn, what a shame CCP, keep it as is (i know you will no mather what i say), maybe 48hours queue would be nice
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Enden Assulu
Caldari Blood Money Inc. Blood Money Cartel
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Posted - 2009.05.01 15:09:00 -
[6143]
Bring back ghost training, NOW!
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Arakn1s
Amarr Quaver Inc.
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Posted - 2009.05.07 10:14:00 -
[6144]
Originally by: Enden Assulu Bring back ghost training, NOW!
HAIL!!!
P.S. This thread will never die :P
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Glamaz Cruciatia
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Posted - 2009.05.07 12:18:00 -
[6145]
Oh stop flogging the dead horse already....
You were getting something for free, and that got taken away, that does make business sense.....
YOur going to quit / ragequit over this? please if you really like the game you will stay, its not like eve is that expensive either
We still get free expansions, and constant fixes, what mroe do you want? Grow up and put this one to bed, please, just getting stupid now
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Kingnuts
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Posted - 2009.05.07 17:52:00 -
[6146]
I have had 5d (took a skill from 24d to 19d while inactive) training time after my account expired. You'd think they would have said that from the get go and I be there would have been a far larger positive response. I'm not complaining because hey, I'm getting something for free. Given the fact that 'I will be back shortly.' Hell i'd even appreciate 3d.
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Shilien Deis
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Posted - 2009.05.20 20:54:00 -
[6147]
Edited by: Shilien Deis on 20/05/2009 21:09:49 Edited by: Shilien Deis on 20/05/2009 21:01:13 Edited by: Shilien Deis on 20/05/2009 20:59:38 Edited by: Shilien Deis on 20/05/2009 20:59:19 Edited by: Shilien Deis on 20/05/2009 20:58:02 To Vezarus, Glamaz Cruciatia, and any other who supports this: you are a bunch of indoctrinated idiots whos only pourpose in this world is to feed the fat corporation and state opionions they recive in envelopes at home. How you can think this is/was a good idea or the fact that you belive CCP plan wasn't to force more money out of the consumer is baffling to such a degree it's almost as unbelivable as alien kidnapings.
If people are selling accounts you take step to prevent account selling, you don't **** the game up for all the comunity. (any other abuses? i'm all eyes)
Not just people with mutliple accounts are affected by this, but everyone who considers that the game isn't worth playing non stop, and IT IS NOT, IT HAS NEVER BEEN, and IT WILL NOT BE FOR A LONG TIME STILL. Not everyone wants to or can aford to pay and/or play each month, and if you think this cannot be, then you are stupid and you should climb the tallest building in sight and jump off, repeat until dead. As so so so so many have already said EvE was never about 'beign alwayse there' but knowing that even if you go away there is something diffrent waiting for you, EvE was never WoW, LOTRO, AC, Ultima, or any other mmo out there, but now it is trying to be and frankly if i have to chose a game in wich i have to be there to level up i will chose every other one BUT EVE, at least in other games leveling up is MORE INTERESTING.
Well that's it, to bad about EvE, my account(yup, 1, one,uno :P) is gona go inactive for the last time until the next 'great scheme to bring people back' see you all then or at EvE's funeral if they don't bring ghost training back.
p.s. if there is no tall building in sight, post me your addres and i will personaly give you a loaded gun to kill your self and remove your stupid gene from the pool
p.s.2 i just remember, this is a great help boost for isk sellers with their cheep prices
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June Karr
Caldari Romanian Space Training Academy
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Posted - 2009.05.20 21:51:00 -
[6148]
Allow simultaneous training of all 3 characters on 1 account and I'm fine with no ghost training. Otherwise I feel this will be a bad move on CCP's part.
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Seluko
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Posted - 2009.05.31 04:05:00 -
[6149]
Edited by: Seluko on 31/05/2009 04:05:44 No replies in over 10 days! A travesty I say.
PS. Bring back ghost training
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Zebba
Northwind Research Agency
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Posted - 2009.06.04 13:57:00 -
[6150]
Originally by: Seluko Edited by: Seluko on 31/05/2009 04:05:44 No replies in over 10 days! A travesty I say.
PS. Bring back ghost training
I guess we are still around.
The second post in this thread actually sums up quite good what the problem still is: CCP, you failed to make sure everyone knew about this.
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Kaylan Jahlar
Minmatar Minmatar Industrial Limited
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Posted - 2009.06.04 18:37:00 -
[6151]
Why is everybody even asking why this is being done? I mean come on! Training a character is like playing the game, if your not playing (because your subscription is inactive or suspended) then training should stop. This is perfectly normal.
Are you people seriously complaining because CCP doesn't want to be able to train your character for free? |
Hudhayfah
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Posted - 2009.06.04 20:20:00 -
[6152]
Hello you all, about this topic I think we must all give thanks to CCP... If it wasn't for this change I am certain that we would be spending a lot more of money... me for example would be renewing my subs after two or three weeks after they expired to change skills and play the game for one or more months... With that change I just don't bother... I can re-sub whenever I want. For me it as been a realy good way to save money. Thank you CCP once again. The only bug I see on all that was on us, to be in a rush to re-sub a game just to keep a char training up skills... just go out and enjoy de sun
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Lucjan
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Posted - 2009.06.04 22:20:00 -
[6153]
Originally by: Carsidava
If you disable skill training for inactive accounts, why aren't you also disabling market orders from inactive accounts? Why aren't you also disabling RP accumulation from inactive accounts? Why aren't you disabling dividend payouts to inactive accounts?
Why are only skill points being hit?
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Gunnanmon
Gallente UNITED STAR SYNDICATE
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Posted - 2009.06.06 16:50:00 -
[6154]
Originally by: Lucjan
Originally by: Carsidava
If you disable skill training for inactive accounts, why aren't you also disabling market orders from inactive accounts? Why aren't you also disabling RP accumulation from inactive accounts? Why aren't you disabling dividend payouts to inactive accounts?
Why are only skill points being hit?
Probably because they don't 12 more 205 page threads. Signature locked for discussing moderation. Navigator
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Midas Man
Caldari Dzark Innovations
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Posted - 2009.06.08 14:41:00 -
[6155]
Originally by: Kaylan Jahlar Why is everybody even asking why this is being done? I mean come on! Training a character is like playing the game, if your not playing (because your subscription is inactive or suspended) then training should stop. This is perfectly normal.
Are you people seriously complaining because CCP doesn't want to be able to train your character for free?
nope people are complaining because of the lies ccp told in regards explaining this change. And CCP lack of responce on the valid question of why only unsubbed training, when unsubbed RP gain, market orders, research etc does more damage to the game. |
Mezikk
Earned In Blood
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Posted - 2009.06.09 17:15:00 -
[6156]
Originally by: Midas Man
Originally by: Kaylan Jahlar Why is everybody even asking why this is being done? I mean come on! Training a character is like playing the game, if your not playing (because your subscription is inactive or suspended) then training should stop. This is perfectly normal.
Are you people seriously complaining because CCP doesn't want to be able to train your character for free?
nope people are complaining because of the lies ccp told in regards explaining this change. And CCP lack of responce on the valid question of why only unsubbed training, when unsubbed RP gain, market orders, research etc does more damage to the game.
Pretty sure most people are complaining because disabling ghost training was a really really crap idea.
Negative Eleven |
Erim Solfara
Amarr House of Solfara
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Posted - 2009.06.11 18:46:00 -
[6157]
Thread still going? I'm impressed, and as for all those people saying this all makes complete sense, stop whining... It's not the disabling of the feature, it's the sudden re-classification of a feature to a bug, and the complete ****ing ignorance of CCP with regards to the outcry from the playerbase...
It's just cash-cow-production's new ethos, the game's playerbase was starting to peak, even with these MASSIVE advertising campaigns and frankly aggressive new player acquisition, they're only maintaining the rate of growth of the playerbase they had for the last 4-5 years by BEING NICE.
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Argon Kretzki
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Posted - 2009.06.20 10:21:00 -
[6158]
I don't mind if CCP wants to make more money or it is really a bug! If You have a job You can support 2 accounts (as most people do I guess)... people whining are just kiddies.
So now that inactive account training is out of the picture perhaps a real skill queue can be made, current 1 day queue is nice but not enough. |
Baron Aethon
Ostium Orci
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Posted - 2009.06.21 11:46:00 -
[6159]
Originally by: Argon Kretzki I don't mind if CCP wants to make more money or it is really a bug! If You have a job You can support 2 accounts (as most people do I guess)... people whining are just kiddies.
So now that inactive account training is out of the picture perhaps a real skill queue can be made, current 1 day queue is nice but not enough.
Yeah good one... CCP doesn't care about the "Kiddies", they will just go play wow anyways right.
Let me ask you this, when this game came out in 2003, If a 16 year old had been turned away from this game as just a Kiddie, what game would that now 22 year old be playing?
Oh, right. Good job CCP, hurt the young ones, the future of your game, the ones who won't be able to have anything invested in this game when it (possibly) hits 10. |
Vaneshi SnowCrash
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Posted - 2009.06.21 17:28:00 -
[6160]
Originally by: June Karr Allow simultaneous training of all 3 characters on 1 account and I'm fine with no ghost training. Otherwise I feel this will be a bad move on CCP's part.
I couldn't have put it better myself. The old players guide said that it was one account at a time because you could ghost train.
Well now you can't and it's still one character at a time, which quite frankly is taking the yellow liquid a tad IMHO. |
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Argon Kretzki
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Posted - 2009.06.21 23:39:00 -
[6161]
Originally by: Baron Aethon
Originally by: Argon Kretzki I don't mind if CCP wants to make more money or it is really a bug! If You have a job You can support 2 accounts (as most people do I guess)... people whining are just kiddies.
So now that inactive account training is out of the picture perhaps a real skill queue can be made, current 1 day queue is nice but not enough.
Yeah good one... CCP doesn't care about the "Kiddies", they will just go play wow anyways right.
Let me ask you this, when this game came out in 2003, If a 16 year old had been turned away from this game as just a Kiddie, what game would that now 22 year old be playing?
Oh, right. Good job CCP, hurt the young ones, the future of your game, the ones who won't be able to have anything invested in this game when it (possibly) hits 10.
With calling people "Kiddies" I mean they whine a lot, kiddish behavior (as well as the kids who play).
I don't think young (age as well as experience) players would really care about this Ghost training issue mate :) I started playing Eve about a year and few months ago, and left for about an year. I come from WoW and em 16. Yeah, I'm a kiddie, but the lack of ghost training wont make me leave EvE, because... I like EvE :)
However, I think it was a nice feature and CCP could compensate with a much longer (weekly, monthly, etc.) queue or all 3 chars train at the same time (as the above post noted) or something else, perhaps do a poll or something.
But if it doesn't happen, big deal, life goes on! :)
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Klaus Kervin
Igni Ferroque. Extempore Extinguo
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Posted - 2009.07.02 00:30:00 -
[6162]
I support the return of ghost training or the disablement of RP/market orders from unsubscribed accounts.
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Mistress 2569
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Posted - 2009.07.02 19:40:00 -
[6163]
If we can't get ghost training, can we at least get our 90-Day "GTC"s back for 34.95?
Seriously, CCP is gonna wise up and change it to 30-Day ETC for 34.95, and get away with it because 4 year old players won't Emo-Bio-Mass their char.
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Trenjeska
Chumly Incorporated
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Posted - 2009.07.03 08:08:00 -
[6164]
Originally by: Mistress 2569 If we can't get ghost training, can we at least get our 90-Day "GTC"s back for 34.95?
Seriously, CCP is gonna wise up and change it to 30-Day ETC for 34.95, and get away with it because 4 year old players won't Emo-Bio-Mass their char.
It would be nice to get those NORMAL priced GTC's back The 60 day cards are too overpriced
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Sparky Heretic
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Posted - 2009.07.03 22:27:00 -
[6165]
You know what? This reminds me of back in the nano and nos nerf days. Those with NoS domis and Nanophoons were furious, even though they knew that a BS outflying an inty or NoSing something that was out of cap was unbalanced, would get mad and complain. Boo-hoo. This isn't fair. Tell you what, go play any other pay-required MMO and see if you can get better skills without paying the fees. Quit whining, deal with it. I gained millions of SP this way in the last several years, and now it's gone. Oh, well. Maybe we should go to MWD scorps again too, flying over 2 AU/sec as well according to some of you people? Bah.
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Play Time
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Posted - 2009.07.05 16:56:00 -
[6166]
To all the people who say: "In which other mmo can you skill your toon while not being subscribed?" I ask: In which other mmo can you skill your toon while being offline? So should skilling system be changed so that skills can be trained only while player is in-game? Because thats how it is in all other mmo's. Honestly, arguments 'In which other mmo...' are the most ******ed of all, cause they sort of imply that all mmo's should look like WoW.
To all the people who say: "Ghosttraining was free, its only logical it was removed." I say: I'm not aware there ever was any link or button which you could click to receive your free ghosttraining. In fact, the only way you could receive ghosttraining was TO PAY FOR IT. It was part of the package, you payed to play and that enabled you to shoot rats, mine roids... and ghosttrain. It was free as much as t2 bpo lottery was free, but removal of t2 bpo lottery was clearly to make game better, while with removal of ghosttraining its not clear is it to make game better or only to make CCP richer.
These are two most important questions related to removal of ghosttraining: 1. Does it make game better, and 2. does it make CCP richer.
I can only speculate on the answer to second question, though I believe that removal of ghosttraining was major design change which should have clear impact on CCP's earnings. Positive (more money) change is a result of all the accounts who would have used ghosttraining but since they couldn't opted to prolong their subscription whenever it expired. Negative (less money) change probably had immediate, short term (3 months) effect, when players were reducing the number of their multiple accounts, and long term effect (another 9 months might be sufficient to recognise and measure it) which includes more old players quitting (they would have come back after ghosttraining a long skill but now they dont) and less new players sticking with the game. So, I guess soon CCP should positively know did this change increase or decrease their earnings. If it's the later, then we might get ghosttraining back, they obviously wont do it just because a lot of players want it sufficiently to create a 200+ pages thread.
Did removal of ghosttraining make Eve a better game? The only sensible game-related reason I heard why it was removed was that it allowed for character farming which was hurting the game. I dont know anything about that so I cant comment. Also never had more then one account so cant say anything about that. But I can say something about how I think it affects new players. If there wasn't ghosttraining I'd never play eve one day past free trial. Ghosttraining provided a degree of long-term playability, a way to go around all those long skills. Now that's gone, I believe that influx of new players will be substantially reduced.
To those who say "Give us longer skilling queue" I say: What for? One day is sufficient.
To those who say "Let us skill three toons on one account" I say: Dream on. If CCP got stingy about fraction of training time which was ghosttraining, there's no way they'll suddenly triple it.
Here's my idea/suggestion on how to reduce the pain of ghosttraining removal and make Eve a better game: Introduce hybrid skilling. Make it so that players can collect experience which can be turned into skilling points. A system of diminishing returns can prevent the situation in which older players can collect much more experience then new players. For example: killing one npc frigate can be one exp point, destroyer two, cruiser and t2 frigate 3, bc and t2 cruiser 4, bs 5, etc. Killing player ships should bring a bit more experience then killing npc ships. Mining, production and invention should also bring experience. It can provide for a small amount of skilling, lets say killing npc battleships whole day could bring only half an hour of skilling time, so influence does not have to be big, but it would help a lot with Eve's biggest problem: long skills. As it is that part of game is the most boring and frustrating, the oposite of fun, and with ghosttraining removed you cant get around it. Introduce eleventh implant slot for experience collection and limit it to 10.000 experience (by default, greater amounts allowed with new kinds of implants). Allow collected experience to be turned into any skill eligible for training and modify it with relevant attributes. Introduce implants for new slot which can store experience and allow it to be traded on market. If whole characters can be traded, why not skillpoints? It would be a valuable and expensive commodity, its impact on the game might be quite limited while at the same time it would provide more diversity and a way to reduce terrible boredom which are long skills.
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Roto Rooter
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Posted - 2009.07.07 20:57:00 -
[6167]
My accounts are still here, although not always active. Since the unsubbed training nerf I find that I don't care all that much whether my chars are training or not. I have not forgotten the cheesey and dishonest way the nerf was done, and I still believe it made zero business sense and had to have originated with clueless management types who really thought it would "force" us to stay subscribed more of the time. What it really did was help break the compulsive cycle of constant training, surely resulting in loss of revenue.
I still believe CCP suffers from problems of arrogance and ill-informed bad attitude. While I would love to love the folks who bring us this nice game, I can't. I keep a hand in, but my participation is nothing like it was before the nerf.
I am rooting for an eventual Eve killer. I would happily give up everything I have earned and built in Eve to support a new game that has a chance of putting Eve and CCP out of business. That may seem cold, but it is a measure of how offended I have been by CCP's conduct in this matter.
It would even be more tolerable if CCP were technically competent, but the numbers of bugs and the lengths of time they have persisted is astonishing for a paid service. Since Apocrypha the launcher regularly crashes, and apparently CCP pays no attention to the Microsoft reports that presumably give them all the info they need to fix the launcher. They must be receiving many thousands of the MS crash reports, but still the bugs persist. Perhaps worse, old bugs return, which mystifies me as a 45-year programmer. When I fix bugs, they don't return. When CCP fixes bugs, they often return.
Eve has been running better lately, which is good. Most of the recent changes leave me cold... I have no interest in W space or Tech 3, and changes to warping and jumping are, I think, steps backward. Gate and station improvements are OK. Roid esthestics are OK but really unnecessary.
One good thing, although seriously overdue, was the recent change to the roid spawn formulas. Belts, which were seriously overmined due to population expansion without corresponding belt expansion, are healthier again and mining has once again become marginally feasible.
So it's a mixed bag for me, but I will never forget the injury and insult of the unsubbed training nerf. The only thing that would satisfy me in that regard would be total, complete and truthful confession and abject apology, and restoration of unsubbed training. I don't expect that because the would-be Vikings of CCP are too full of themselves and too arrogant to deal that honestly.
To those who only post here to whine about this megathread, you are morons. You evidently don't understand the issues and/or are CCP employees and apologists. If you have nothing to say about unsubbed training, why post?
To those who support the nerf, I say you have your heads up your asses. It made no business sense and only resulted in a dropoff in the resubscription stats. I know because I experienced a change in my sense of urgency to return to the game after letting accounts expire. I am not unique.
To those on the right side of this issue, we can only shake our heads at the stupidity and intransigence of CCP, and conclude that we can never, ever trust CCP to do the right thing. I'm offended that CCP makes it impossible for me to really love the people who bring us this nice game.
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Zarak1 Kenpach1
R.E.C.O.N. Minor Threat.
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Posted - 2009.07.13 14:30:00 -
[6168]
Originally by: June Karr Allow simultaneous training of all 3 characters on 1 account and I'm fine with no ghost training. Otherwise I feel this will be a bad move on CCP's part.
i second that
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gpfwestie
Gallente Westie Engineering
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Posted - 2009.07.13 23:43:00 -
[6169]
Just signed up for the 5 Day free resub !!!!!!
Now I've found this topic I can put it to some use.
Thank's CCP, this ghost training 'fix' has saved me about 8 months subs so far (4 on each toon), this has come just at the right time what with the recession and everything.
Don't know why you lot are all complaining, CCP just keep giving.
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Midas Man
Caldari Dzark Innovations
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Posted - 2009.07.14 10:41:00 -
[6170]
Originally by: gpfwestie Just signed up for the 5 Day free resub !!!!!!
Now I've found this topic I can put it to some use.
Thank's CCP, this ghost training 'fix' has saved me about 8 months subs so far (4 on each toon), this has come just at the right time what with the recession and everything.
Don't know why you lot are all complaining, CCP just keep giving.
last time i got a 5 day free sub I was able to use the link 5 times try it you may get more free time than you thought and as CCP dont read this thread it will stay secret
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Tech3
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Posted - 2009.07.15 19:13:00 -
[6171]
Ghost trining is considered a bug? U know how that look? Thats playing cards with someone who change rules while playing. Thats not a bug. That was in all guides, that was asked hundreds of times and always answer was "yes u can". Ok. Now u consider its not right. So what about those ppl who "ghost-trained" capital skills to lvl 5 before? Now the "price" of learning them comes to real money. So u just changed price of my account. I had a reason to re-activate account in some time. Now i don't. So thats my last subscription payed. U want more money from players? U just lost a lot of money. Bye-bye.
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Jobby
Minmatar UNITED STAR SYNDICATE
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Posted - 2009.07.18 13:22:00 -
[6172]
Originally by: Tech3 ...So what about those ppl who "ghost-trained" capital skills to lvl 5 before? Now the "price" of learning them comes to real money. So u just changed price of my account.....
That's how I trained Gallente Carrier 5. I wonder how many people do that nowadays.
\o/
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Aleksandr Cirtus
Caldari Northern Storm
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Posted - 2009.07.20 03:12:00 -
[6173]
I thought I'd add a few cents to the discussion down the road by pointing out my alt account has been expired up until now for a fair amount of time irrelevant of ghost training. I've noticed the trend I had before in sporadically activating/deactivating hasn't changed. I hope you (CCP) realize these changes do little to change the course of actions by subscribers (at least in my option) and continues to damage your reputation.
On another note, I appreciate the addition of paypal as an authorized payment method, but am generally displeased by the rise in ISK cost of subscription time. In fact, I believe that to be the major reason behind the activation frequency of my accounts.
--Aleks -- Sig removed, it didn't brake the forums, my mistake. -Mitnal Ack, my car haas nein brakes! Bang zoom, straight to the third moon of Omicron Persei 8! |
riverini
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Posted - 2009.07.20 15:15:00 -
[6174]
PAY UR BILLS!!!! YOU CHEAPSHOTS!!!
if u don't pay ur gas bills u can't expect to be keep warm in the winter...
GOOD DEAL CCP, NO GHOST TRAINING for those Scrooges and account re-sellers who think they can get free cable and get away with it!
p.s.: posting in one epic thread-naught...
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Tesal
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Posted - 2009.07.21 16:13:00 -
[6175]
Lots of whining in this thread.
Ghost training was the thing to do for people whose only business was to sell accounts. It unbalanced the game and made far too many cap ship characters. It eliminated the usefulness of specialization because rich alliances could buy whatever they wanted. People could have 20 or 30 characters going and just pull out what they needed. It was stupid.
It also helped people who RMT by giving them an endless supply of high skill, and cheap characters to use for mining or missioning and they didn't care if they were banned or not, they had 20 more where that came from.
It also was good for scammers and corp theives, because they could have alts all over the place. Now their characters can't sit unsubscribed training up BS V so they can have high skill untraceable characters.
Ghost training makes skilling meaningless. It was bad for game balance. It never should have been allowed in the game in the first place.
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Gunnanmon
Gallente UNITED STAR SYNDICATE
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Posted - 2009.07.22 14:17:00 -
[6176]
Originally by: Tesal Lots of whining in this thread.
Ghost training was the thing to do for people whose only business was to sell accounts.
Wrong. I did it a lot. I even bought 2, and sold 1 char.
I'd read, and maybe even respond to the other stuff, but you started with a lie, so I can't be arsed. Signature locked for discussing moderation. Navigator
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Weri Roose
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Posted - 2009.07.27 00:45:00 -
[6177]
I just resubbed with the free 5-day trial after about a 9-month absence.
I don't understand how everyone keeps saying that ghost training was cheating. WoW does the same thing. The longer you're absent from WoW, the longer you'll be able to gain extra experience in-game, similar to ghost training. If anything, EvE is now lacking a feature that is commonly found in MMO's. If you're gone for a while, there should be some sort of incentive to come back to the game.
On the plus column, EvE has added the skill queue and the ability to change attributes every 12 months. So I guess the best way to play eve now is to put all attributes to two categories, train all related skills for those two categories (should take about 6 months), and then not play for another 6 months.
Sounds good to me! :)
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DorXtar
Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2009.07.31 02:03:00 -
[6178]
Originally by: Tesal Lots of whining in this thread.
Ghost training was the thing to do for people whose only business was to sell accounts. It unbalanced the game and made far too many cap ship characters. It eliminated the usefulness of specialization because rich alliances could buy whatever they wanted. People could have 20 or 30 characters going and just pull out what they needed. It was stupid.
It also helped people who RMT by giving them an endless supply of high skill, and cheap characters to use for mining or missioning and they didn't care if they were banned or not, they had 20 more where that came from.
It also was good for scammers and corp theives, because they could have alts all over the place. Now their characters can't sit unsubscribed training up BS V so they can have high skill untraceable characters.
Ghost training makes skilling meaningless. It was bad for game balance. It never should have been allowed in the game in the first place.
That's funny... people like yourself are astounded... nay.. HORRIFIED at how much the price of characters has gone up. If anything, ghost training has been a boon to people who primarily deal in character training and sales. Ghost training made characters more affordable. Unless you have tons of money that you don't mind giving to character sellers. LULZ. ________________________________ It never hurts to help! |
Drangnar
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Posted - 2009.07.31 21:02:00 -
[6179]
Edited by: Drangnar on 31/07/2009 21:03:18 I found out about this today, a few days before a 30-day 1-time ping expires, and i'd been planning on ghost training a skill. Now, after that, i reactivate for another 30 days, play, go back to ghost training. This is my only account, i don't run multiple accounts, im just only a casual player. I'm considering letting this account drop, having found out that i need to run an active account all the time. Just saying, tally 1 more loss of subscription - then again - since im not paying year-round, i guess im not as valuable a customer.
To me, this is little different than moving to 60-day only gametime codes that cost more than twice as much as the old 30-day ones- more money for CCP. You can still buy time in 30 day segments, just choose subscription, pay once 14.95, then cancel - you keep the 30 days, so, basically a 30-day gtc that can't be sold. Guess that's what the 60 day premium of an extra $5 is for - the ability to use PLEX.
If CCP "fixes" that little pricing point on account of me, many ppl will hate me, im sure, i don't think im the only one that does it, but they'll lose far more players again than the money they'd make from raising the prices.
Edit - Pointing out that i've played EVE for 2 years, not a new char, glad i got my minnie BS 5 while i still could . That's 35 days - a good $15 saved! on my part instead of doing it today.
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Nareg Maxence
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.08.01 08:55:00 -
[6180]
Originally by: Drangnar
Edit - Pointing out that i've played EVE for 2 years, not a new char, glad i got my minnie BS 5 while i still could . That's 35 days - a good $15 saved! on my part instead of doing it today.
Enjoy your family size pizza!
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Flying ZombieJesus
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Posted - 2009.08.03 16:44:00 -
[6181]
Originally by: Weri Roose I just resubbed with the free 5-day trial after about a 9-month absence.
I did the same, and the only reason I came back was that my month long skill training had finished.
I think a better approach would be to limit how often you could do it.
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ice sect
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Posted - 2009.08.04 00:30:00 -
[6182]
im surprised this topic is still going with no response from cccp. not.
i went from 16-ish total accounts with 6-ish always active to now using two accounts. the 14-ish accounts are nearly useless at this point because of how many months theyve been inactive and untrained so they will sit, unsubscribed for even a month at a time, permanently. prior to the ghost training nerf there was incentive to keep these characters and re-subscribing once in awhile to keep them warm. i barely log on any more with the two accounts i have because my play style has been so forked and the minimal interest i have in the game is waning more each day. i used to log in daily, now i log in once every few days. congrats cccp on nerfing my interest in the game.
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Chani Fedaykin
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Posted - 2009.08.04 11:50:00 -
[6183]
i still find it sad that there is no reaction of ccp - even if admitting to have given invalid / wrong / stupid reasons is ofc 'hard' :P
to all those stupid ignorants that post here without having a clue what the main reason for this thread is ... its not about removal of ghost training per se, but how ccp handled the whole case and about the irrelevant reasons they gave for it.
i would not have quit simply because they decided to remove a feature / alter their conditions :P
and btw: thanks to ccp's 'generous' offer of 5days (ofc only for one account not the others) i am once again able to post here and express my displeasure
have a nice life ... or at least try to remember that you have/had one
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ice sect
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Posted - 2009.08.06 22:50:00 -
[6184]
um. my issue is with them removing the FEATURE of ghost training. the method they used to remove it was icing on the cake.
because of all the accounts i had i get spamed with those 'special offers' too altho theyll never get used. the accounts are useless now due to how long theyve sat untrained.
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Mia Aires
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Posted - 2009.08.20 21:15:00 -
[6185]
Has there EVER been a statment from CCP?
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Boink'urr
Minmatar Wasserette De Tarthorst
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Posted - 2009.08.20 22:27:00 -
[6186]
Seriously dude, 14 accounts is just... unhealthy D:
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Soma Khan
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Posted - 2009.08.21 14:32:00 -
[6187]
Originally by: Mia Aires Has there EVER been a statment from CCP?
Sure. You signed your agreement with that statement when you started playing EVE. It said something like this: "EVE's our game, we can do what we want with it, and you've got no say over this".
I happened to think this is a good thing. ___
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Mia Aires
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Posted - 2009.08.28 13:54:00 -
[6188]
Originally by: Soma Khan
Sure. You signed your agreement with that statement when you started playing EVE. It said something like this: "EVE's our game, we can do what we want with it, and you've got no say over this".
I happened to think this is a good thing.
WOW, great answer CCP and other didn't ever heard something called CRM or Customoer Relationship Management
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Soma Khan
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Posted - 2009.08.28 17:16:00 -
[6189]
Originally by: Mia Aires
WOW, great answer CCP and other didn't ever heard something called CRM or Customoer Relationship Management
Clearly, CCP's idea of pleasing their paying customers is to provide a great gaming product.
Providing freebies that encourage metagaming and RMT wouldn't be high on any gaming company's priority list. ___
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Jaggati Khan
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Posted - 2009.08.29 07:02:00 -
[6190]
Originally by: Mia Aires WOW, great answer CCP and other didn't ever heard something called CRM or Customoer Relationship Management
you mean customer service?
Cant imagine how that convo would go maybe something like this..
"hi ccp? id like to complain".
"ok sir what would you like to complain about?"
"well currently i am not paying for your game and whilst im not paying i think its disgraceful that i no longer get your services"
"........"
Maybe you should try that with your IP's and try and complain that you cant send an email....
Honestly this is a business, in the real world, i realise you may have issues with this but if you dont pay any of your other bills in any other business do you honestly expect to still recieve their services?
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strawberry alarmclock
Amarr Noob Mercs
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Posted - 2009.08.30 23:23:00 -
[6191]
Originally by: Jaggati Khan
Originally by: Mia Aires WOW, great answer CCP and other didn't ever heard something called CRM or Customoer Relationship Management
you mean customer service?
Cant imagine how that convo would go maybe something like this..
"hi ccp? id like to complain".
"ok sir what would you like to complain about?"
"well currently i am not paying for your game and whilst im not paying i think its disgraceful that i no longer get your services"
"........"
Maybe you should try that with your IP's and try and complain that you cant send an email....
Honestly this is a business, in the real world, i realise you may have issues with this but if you dont pay any of your other bills in any other business do you honestly expect to still recieve their services?
no you idiot we are mad because what was once a selling point is now called a bug.
we are noob mercs u will fear us laugh at us. |
Mia Aires
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Posted - 2009.08.31 11:11:00 -
[6192]
Originally by: strawberry alarmclock
Originally by: Jaggati Khan
Originally by: Mia Aires WOW, great answer CCP and other didn't ever heard something called CRM or Customoer Relationship Management
you mean customer service?
Cant imagine how that convo would go maybe something like this..
"hi ccp? id like to complain".
"ok sir what would you like to complain about?"
"well currently i am not paying for your game and whilst im not paying i think its disgraceful that i no longer get your services"
"........"
Maybe you should try that with your IP's and try and complain that you cant send an email....
Honestly this is a business, in the real world, i realise you may have issues with this but if you dont pay any of your other bills in any other business do you honestly expect to still recieve their services?
no you idiot we are mad because what was once a selling point is now called a bug.
Thanks!
Quote: Honestly this is a business, in the real world, i realise you may have issues with this but if you dont pay any of your other bills in any other business do you honestly expect to still recieve their services?
I was just asking for a statement! I pay my bills! But if someone changes the prices, services or product properties (I pay for in advance) YES than I expect a statement!
Ahh by they way CRM is not a game!
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Kaptain Kruncher
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Posted - 2009.09.02 11:03:00 -
[6193]
Originally by: Mia Aires
I was just asking for a statement! I pay my bills! But if someone changes the prices, services or product properties (I pay for in advance) YES than I expect a statement!
Ahh by they way CRM is not a game!
The statement was released about 10.5 months ago: http://www.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&bid=592
You may not like it, you may not want it to be this way, you may not even understand it, but there it is in all its glory.
Seems like CCP's customer service and overall business plan is kickin' like Bruce Lee- The disabling of Ghost Training has had little or no effect on subscriptions.
So- take your failbots and go home.
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riverini
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Posted - 2009.09.02 16:07:00 -
[6194]
Originally by: Mia Aires
Originally by: strawberry alarmclock
Originally by: Jaggati Khan
Originally by: Mia Aires WOW, great answer CCP and other didn't ever heard something called CRM or Customoer Relationship Management
you mean customer service?
Cant imagine how that convo would go maybe something like this..
"hi ccp? id like to complain".
"ok sir what would you like to complain about?"
"well currently i am not paying for your game and whilst im not paying i think its disgraceful that i no longer get your services"
"........"
Maybe you should try that with your IP's and try and complain that you cant send an email....
Honestly this is a business, in the real world, i realise you may have issues with this but if you dont pay any of your other bills in any other business do you honestly expect to still recieve their services?
no you idiot we are mad because what was once a selling point is now called a bug.
Thanks!
Quote: Honestly this is a business, in the real world, i realise you may have issues with this but if you dont pay any of your other bills in any other business do you honestly expect to still recieve their services?
I was just asking for a statement! I pay my bills! But if someone changes the prices, services or product properties (I pay for in advance) YES than I expect a statement!
Ahh by they way CRM is not a game!
HAHAHAHAHHA party is over u cheap ass, no more free **** for anyone, OMG LOOK AT THEM, THEY WANNA CRY!!! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!! OHHH THE RAGE!!! PATHETIC HOW THE TRY TO JUSTIFY THE SIMPLE FACT THAT THEY JUST DON'T WANNA PAY FOR THEIR STUFF... -____-
Let's see if mocking at this cheapshots finally shuts some stubborn mouths off...
P.S.: PAY FOR YOUR ****, STRAWBERRY COULDN'T BE MOARRRR RIGHT....
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Root Canal
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Posted - 2009.09.07 04:49:00 -
[6195]
Originally by: Jaggati Khan Honestly this is a business, in the real world, i realise you may have issues with this but if you dont pay any of your other bills in any other business do you honestly expect to still recieve their services?
You fail at understanding how unsubbed training worked. It cost CCP nothing, as has been explained extensively in this thread, and they originally did it to provide serious incentive for lapsed players to resubscribe. They touted it frequently as a feature, then out of the blue claimed it was a bug and nerfed it.
You would have a better case arguing that char, skills and items should be deleted when an account lapses. After all, those things take up space in the database but no one is paying to support it. Of course you won't argue that because you likely know that retaining chars, skills and "stuff" provides the most powerful incentive of all for lapsed players to resubscribe.
You must think that unsubbed training was somehow a service in the sense that it cost CCP something to provide it. Nope, but I long ago tired of explaining how training works in Eve. It's funny that suspending training of lapsed characters actually DOES cost CCP some server load, but I don't think you're interested in reason or logic.
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Root Canal
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Posted - 2009.09.07 05:43:00 -
[6196]
Originally by: Mia Aires Has there EVER been a statment from CCP?
Only lies when they first disabled unsubbed training. Since then, nothing.
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Me1ster Pr0per
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Posted - 2009.09.08 02:23:00 -
[6197]
If you already disable ghost training, would ccp mind to give at least a warning before the account runs out? I did Ghost training but in a unwanted way, cause i got locked out before i actually knew what happend. Some might have to transfer money first to Paypal or a prepayed visa card. And if the Account gets disabled without warning, they can't get back in straight, as much as they want it or have money on the bank (my Credit Card for example is not accepted by CCP, but in oversea, quite strange). It would be nice to Fix that Bug first, and that can really not be an issue, the trial time has that reminder, but i guess that if you have already got people paying it, then it doesn't matter anymore, as they have something to loose and will come back for sure, at least that's what you guess.
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Glengrant
TOHA Heavy Industries
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Posted - 2009.09.08 11:13:00 -
[6198]
Wow - this silly thread is still going on - the undead are amongst us.
So CCP wanted to make a change and marketing did its blaa blah.
Big deal.
Get over it folks. I bet you don't bombard Unilever every time washing powder gets ever more miraculous attributes.
Spreading lies and obfuscations is half of what marketing gets paid for. Tragic - but fact of life. Just take everything with a grain of salt. It's ggood training not to believe every promise. --- Save the forum: Think before you post. ISK BUYER = LOSER EVE TV- Bring it back! Laptop, NVidia7900GS, Ubuntu 8.04, WINE |
Jacevetter
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Posted - 2009.09.10 17:34:00 -
[6199]
Lets not loose sight on this topic. Old now since this change away from allowing to GHOST TRAIN, as CCP originally offered it in the early years as a BIG plus for MMOG, but WHATS next. After one year missing maybe they'll remove your character ? OR.....recycle him or her back to the game for name at least. Like EVE ingame, once CCP seeing something is going out of control, we get change. Where it be a manitcore with awesome range suddenly dropped to torpedos at close range, or ghost training while you get some more money to pay for your subscription. My point, is from the early promises of CCP, they, like government change the rules for THEM and not US, the players, characters if you will, within the system that have to live strained at times, but changes that CCP uses like a weapon to hunt down anyone "gaining" from their rules.
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Mohenna
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Posted - 2009.09.11 14:36:00 -
[6200]
Page 206? Lol srsly? Yeah I think I'll just use some days to read this thread... GOI
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Jonis Sinmaker
Valiant Logistics Inc. The Purge Alliance
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Posted - 2009.09.12 03:08:00 -
[6201]
posting in an epic thread.........words words and more words. ____________________________________________ Jonis Sinmaker
VLINC Recruitment
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Ardent Fury
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Posted - 2009.09.12 21:48:00 -
[6202]
I'd like to see ghost training enabled again, but when a suspended account has to be reactivated you pay $20, not $15. That way CCP gets their money and we get the trained skill.
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MomoSarduci
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Posted - 2009.09.14 14:05:00 -
[6203]
Originally by: Ardent Fury I'd like to see ghost training enabled again, but when a suspended account has to be reactivated you pay $20, not $15. That way CCP gets their money and we get the trained skill.
If that's the case, CCP should just sell a month of training time for $5. Then there is no reason for anyone to complain about character ISK costs then since it'll crush the market. A year worth of training for $60? Hell yes please! Can't afford to play every month? When you do play to catch up only costs you 1/3 of what that month would have normally.
First forum post; posted in epic thread about a game mechanic change in favor of active players that cheap players who don't play the game are whining about. Now to find an epic about the people in the T2 ships can flipping noobs for the lulz or the salvage ninjas that feel its ok to steal from noobs because they can't do anything about it.
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Artemis Pile
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Posted - 2009.09.17 02:49:00 -
[6204]
Greed and fairness aside:
Unintended use and "unintended feature" are completely different.
How you intended people to utilize ghost training is irrelevant as you very clearly advertised that skills would continue to train on inactive accounts. It was a major selling point of your game for YEARS and could be found in the player guide.
I don't know what you're going for here? Just tell it like it is: too many people made alts for titans and rorqals and now we're losing money
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ThaDollaGenerale
The Illuminati. Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2009.09.17 05:30:00 -
[6205]
Quote: i went from 16-ish total accounts with 6-ish always active to now using two accounts. the 14-ish accounts are nearly useless at this point because of how many months theyve been inactive and untrained so they will sit, unsubscribed for even a month at a time, permanently.
Christ, get a life instead. 16 accounts? 6 active?
I love how people try to throw around the number of accounts they have/had. Like their opinion matters more because they had more accounts
Everyone that is a mature adult has given up on ghost training. It's dead and gone people.
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Hixxy
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2009.09.18 16:09:00 -
[6206]
best thing CCP did for themselves. i sometimes used to go play something else and leave a long skill training taking advantage of the ghost training. ended up not comming back for months. nothing to do with eve just other games took up the playtime.
FREE content and upgrades since release, how many others have you seen do that?
i honestly can't beleive that this thread is still going nearly 12 months on. everyone needs to be paid for the work they do. ghost training was nice while it lasted.
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Salmack
Dynaverse Corporation Vertigo Coalition
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Posted - 2009.09.19 18:29:00 -
[6207]
O waaaa stop crying ffs. Pay for your accounts and you get to train like the rest of us. Not idle train so you can sell the characters. Damn |
Tiel Enim
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Posted - 2009.09.19 22:30:00 -
[6208]
Originally by: Jaggati Khan
Originally by: Mia Aires WOW, great answer CCP and other didn't ever heard something called CRM or Customoer Relationship Management
you mean customer service?
Cant imagine how that convo would go maybe something like this..
"hi ccp? id like to complain".
"ok sir what would you like to complain about?"
"well currently i am not paying for your game and whilst im not paying i think its disgraceful that i no longer get your services"
"........"
Maybe you should try that with your IP's and try and complain that you cant send an email....
Honestly this is a business, in the real world, i realise you may have issues with this but if you dont pay any of your other bills in any other business do you honestly expect to still recieve their services?
/end thread tbh.
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Chani Fedaykin
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Posted - 2009.09.20 08:04:00 -
[6209]
its astonishing how ppl tend to not see (read) what they dont want to see (read).
this thread would have been abandoned a long time ago if those ppl would just stop posting here - claiming this thread is solely about the issue that ghost training was removed without acknowleding that the main issue is not THAT it was removed, but HOW :P
if you are not intelligent enough to identify the main motivation of the posters in a thread (even after beeing posted several times) and still feel confident in posting irrelevant replies ... its obvious the thread will not starve.
the only other obvious reason why those ppl could still be posting is that they like to 'produce' themselves, without caring that they will be percieved as ignorant / stupid by anyone else who is able to see the whole picture. i am no psychologishst - but perhaps those ppl just need to compensate for their lack of recieved attention in rl :P hose ppl dont like this thread to starve anyways.
have a nice time - and perhaps consider to start thinking before posting ...
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BoomBoomGoons
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Posted - 2009.09.23 01:54:00 -
[6210]
This still active, wow!!!! Who was training a 12 month skill and came back to find he got screwed :P
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Gunnanmon
Gallente Imperial Syndicate Forces The Laughing Men
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Posted - 2009.09.23 15:52:00 -
[6211]
Originally by: BoomBoomGoons This still active, wow!!!! Who was training a 12 month skill and came back to find he got screwed :P
Someone with really crap attributes. Signature locked for discussing moderation. Navigator
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Eniy Oh
Gallente United Systems Navy Zenith Affinity
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Posted - 2009.09.30 00:43:00 -
[6212]
Edited by: Eniy Oh on 30/09/2009 00:44:38 Die thread, die!
I understand people have been whining NOT so much about the fact ghost training was removed, but how. And people saying in here "stop whining about ghost training" just don't get it.
Fine.
Point made. About a HUNDRED times.
And CCP did make several statements about this issue, including an apology from CCP Torfi (sp?) in this topic. CBA to find the specific link, but it's there.
It's not CCP's problem if you guys simply can't accept the explanations that have been given to you. --- The one whose ship names don't pass the sanity test while the rest of him is rather sane |
Soma Khan
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Posted - 2009.09.30 17:24:00 -
[6213]
Edited by: Soma Khan on 30/09/2009 17:24:53
Originally by: Eniy Oh Edited by: Eniy Oh on 30/09/2009 00:44:38 Die thread, die!
I understand people have been whining NOT so much about the fact ghost training was removed, but how. And people saying in here "stop whining about ghost training" just don't get it.
Fine.
Point made. About a HUNDRED times.
And CCP did make several statements about this issue, including an apology from CCP Torfi (sp?) in this topic. CBA to find the specific link, but it's there.
It's not CCP's problem if you guys simply can't accept the explanations that have been given to you.
That's what actually gives it away: explanations given, apology made, ghost training taken away, tears won't stop.
It's pretty obvious the "how could they lie" excuse for moaning is just a fig leaf for the butthurt over losing a freebie. ___
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Root Canal
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Posted - 2009.10.07 12:16:00 -
[6214]
The reason the thread won't go away is that CCP committed unforgivable sins in nerfing unsubbed training which some of us will not forget, and because complete morons keep posting in the thread, morons who just don't get it.
Unsubbed training didn't cost CCP anything due to the way training works in Eve. It's not a process; it's not a server action; it's a one-time computation of a completion date on the RL calendar, done at the time the training step is "started." Nothing at all happens until that date is reached. It's the Eve client that creates the illusion of training being an ongoing process. The client computes and displays how much time remains, and creates the pulsating indicator of training in progress. The servers do nothing while training progresses. If an account lapses and becomes inactive, it can't even see the illusion of training "progressing."
In fact, the nerf of unsubbed training imposed a new server burden, since lapsed accounts have to be processed to pause their training after a few days. So while unsubbed training involved no server load at all, the nerf imposes server load that never existed before.
CCP lied about unsubbed training when they created a completely new name, "Ghost Training," and claimed it was a bug. Jeez, how arrogant! A bug, after it had been touted for years as a feature? Gimme a break. Then CCP changed their story about half a dozen times. The only thing they didn't do was tell the truth.
So I can't see any new development, any new offer from CCP, without remembering how they lied and nerfed a feature that was very powerful in bringing back lapsed accounts.
The morons who talk about char farming and selling have no idea what they're talking about. Unsubbed training didn't facilitate char farming or selling... it just provided a reason for lapsed accounts to come back again. These morons have not tried char farming to see how well it worked, nor have they done the math.
For my part, I have never bought nor sold an Eve char. I just don't like being lied to, and especially not when the feature being nerfed actually worked to CCP's benefit, thus it made no sense to nerf it.
Also for my part, I have idled some of my accounts from time to time to reduce what I pay to CCP, a form of fine levied against CCP for their unacceptable behavior.
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Laice
Caldari Novus Aevum Transport and Industries Novus Aevum
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Posted - 2009.10.07 16:37:00 -
[6215]
i for one welcome this thread staying open forever. Less people to mine my precious veldspar because they're whining on forums <3 veldspar
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Aikibe
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Posted - 2009.10.09 22:54:00 -
[6216]
Originally by: Laice i for one welcome this thread staying open forever. Less people to mine my precious veldspar because they're whining on forums <3 veldspar
lol
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Gabriel Virtus
hirr
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Posted - 2009.10.10 23:47:00 -
[6217]
I am still upset about the way this was handled. It was clearly lied about and a mistake on CCPs part. They offered no explanations, they offered lies and then even apologized for their lies.
But alas, CCP redeemed itself with the new features and upgrades that they have done over the last cpl months. I am very happy with CCP at this time and think dominion will be great. Thanks for you hard work CCP, but you stil screwed the pooch on this topic.
You turned a feature into a bug, a bug that last 3 years. You then lied about it apologized. This was a mistake and I will not forget this, nor will I return after the features or new game aspects run out because there is no reason to. Lets be honest, this game is not exciting a enough to hold your attention for years.
Anyway, You ****ed up and the player base will never forget it. Most you can do is redeem yourselves, which you are on your way to doing.
-GV
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Mia Aires
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Posted - 2009.10.23 22:12:00 -
[6218]
Originally by: Root Canal The reason the thread won't go away is that CCP committed unforgivable sins in nerfing unsubbed training which some of us will not forget, and because complete morons keep posting in the thread, morons who just don't get it.
Unsubbed training didn't cost CCP anything due to the way training works in Eve. It's not a process; it's not a server action; it's a one-time computation of a completion date on the RL calendar, done at the time the training step is "started." Nothing at all happens until that date is reached. It's the Eve client that creates the illusion of training being an ongoing process. The client computes and displays how much time remains, and creates the pulsating indicator of training in progress. The servers do nothing while training progresses. If an account lapses and becomes inactive, it can't even see the illusion of training "progressing."
In fact, the nerf of unsubbed training imposed a new server burden, since lapsed accounts have to be processed to pause their training after a few days. So while unsubbed training involved no server load at all, the nerf imposes server load that never existed before.
CCP lied about unsubbed training when they created a completely new name, "Ghost Training," and claimed it was a bug. Jeez, how arrogant! A bug, after it had been touted for years as a feature? Gimme a break. Then CCP changed their story about half a dozen times. The only thing they didn't do was tell the truth.
So I can't see any new development, any new offer from CCP, without remembering how they lied and nerfed a feature that was very powerful in bringing back lapsed accounts.
The morons who talk about char farming and selling have no idea what they're talking about. Unsubbed training didn't facilitate char farming or selling... it just provided a reason for lapsed accounts to come back again. These morons have not tried char farming to see how well it worked, nor have they done the math.
For my part, I have never bought nor sold an Eve char. I just don't like being lied to, and especially not when the feature being nerfed actually worked to CCP's benefit, thus it made no sense to nerf it.
Also for my part, I have idled some of my accounts from time to time to reduce what I pay to CCP, a form of fine levied against CCP for their unacceptable behavior.
+1 - can I have a child with you?
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Boink'urr
Minmatar Wasserette De Tarthorst
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Posted - 2009.10.24 22:45:00 -
[6219]
Originally by: Laice i for one welcome this thread staying open forever. Less people to mine my precious veldspar because they're whining on forums <3 veldspar
lolz... eh... if you cant do both at the same time i'm starting to wonder how you mine D:
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Draighen
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Posted - 2009.10.29 07:40:00 -
[6220]
Too long to read them all.
LET us train two toons per account.
Thx,
Draighen
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Fortuna Cournot
Caldari Perkone
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Posted - 2009.10.29 14:42:00 -
[6221]
This nerf is not enough! Let them pay for the ghost training time! Stick a new skill "Ghost Payback" to them, and disable skill training until they settled old scores.
Law and Order.
------ Character Skill Showroom |
xylopia
Gallente Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2009.10.30 06:47:00 -
[6222]
I'd never forget what CCP did and how you guys did it. It's written on stone for years to see. No matter how you sing on youtube, no matter how you paint it with shiny new ships, this won't go way too far like T20 incident. nothing to say at this moment. |
RogueMind
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.11.04 19:07:00 -
[6223]
Originally by: Root Canal The reason the thread won't go away is that CCP committed unforgivable sins in nerfing unsubbed training which some of us will not forget, and because complete morons keep posting in the thread, morons who just don't get it.
Unsubbed training didn't cost CCP anything due to the way training works in Eve. It's not a process; it's not a server action; it's a one-time computation of a completion date on the RL calendar, done at the time the training step is "started." Nothing at all happens until that date is reached. It's the Eve client that creates the illusion of training being an ongoing process. The client computes and displays how much time remains, and creates the pulsating indicator of training in progress. The servers do nothing while training progresses. If an account lapses and becomes inactive, it can't even see the illusion of training "progressing."
In fact, the nerf of unsubbed training imposed a new server burden, since lapsed accounts have to be processed to pause their training after a few days. So while unsubbed training involved no server load at all, the nerf imposes server load that never existed before.
CCP lied about unsubbed training when they created a completely new name, "Ghost Training," and claimed it was a bug. Jeez, how arrogant! A bug, after it had been touted for years as a feature? Gimme a break. Then CCP changed their story about half a dozen times. The only thing they didn't do was tell the truth.
So I can't see any new development, any new offer from CCP, without remembering how they lied and nerfed a feature that was very powerful in bringing back lapsed accounts.
The morons who talk about char farming and selling have no idea what they're talking about. Unsubbed training didn't facilitate char farming or selling... it just provided a reason for lapsed accounts to come back again. These morons have not tried char farming to see how well it worked, nor have they done the math.
For my part, I have never bought nor sold an Eve char. I just don't like being lied to, and especially not when the feature being nerfed actually worked to CCP's benefit, thus it made no sense to nerf it.
Also for my part, I have idled some of my accounts from time to time to reduce what I pay to CCP, a form of fine levied against CCP for their unacceptable behavior.
Hell with +1. +100
Great post. Great Rant. Nothin but truth -- Opinions are my own.
Torp Nerfing: A thousand BS Campers cried out in terror and were suddenly silenced...
EVE Trinity: The first game where Vista pwned XP. |
Persepoli
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Posted - 2009.11.07 11:35:00 -
[6224]
Originally by: xylopia I'd never forget what CCP did and how you guys did it. It's written on stone for years to see. No matter how you sing on youtube, no matter how you paint it with shiny new ships, this won't go way too far like T20 incident.
But you are still here?? Can I have your stuff when you storm off towards the waiting whaaambulances?
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Staplerfahrer Klaus
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.07 23:36:00 -
[6225]
I remember when this happened there was some outcry over the fact that while "ghost training" was disabled, accumulating research points/datacores or whatever (apologies, I'm not familiar with this in-game activity) while unsubscribed was NOT disabled, allowing customers to resubscribe and cash in a bunch of stuff that they accumulated while not paying for the game.
Was this ever rectified and disabled, or are people still able to benefit like this in-game without actually paying for the game? ____________________
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Market Bandit
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Posted - 2009.11.08 01:59:00 -
[6226]
I just read this whole thread. I should really go do something useful now
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