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Mazzarins Demise
Profit Development and Research Association
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Posted - 2008.10.22 16:42:00 -
[61]
Edited by: Mazzarins Demise on 22/10/2008 16:42:40
That news article doesn't show the entire story. Here's a good link, Here.
The case involved real world violence because they threatened him with a knife and they beat him up.
"[The media reports] omitted a few important details: The duo not only stole the virtual goods, but actually beat the other kid up and threatened him with a knife. They extorted an amulet and mask. In Runescape they're worth a lot of money and in real life people buy them for real money, which is one of the reasons the judge said it was theft.
The boys were convicted for "violent theft". They lured the victim to their house, caught him in a chokehold and kicked and hit him. They used a kitchen knife to threaten the victim. Both thieves showed no regret and didn't acknowledge they did something wrong, which is never good if you find yourself in a Dutch court... The lawyers will appeal."
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Ankhesentapemkah
Gallente
Aliastra
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Posted - 2008.10.22 17:08:00 -
[62]
How about forgetting about the media and looking at the actual verdict?
They were convicted solely for the theft of the items, which the court deems equal as real life goods, and they were deemed innocent of the assault and violence.
Edited by: Ankhesentapemkah on 22/10/2008 16:58:28
Originally by: Marchocias
Just to recap - this basically hasn't got anything to do with online virtual property, and is an issue to do with coercion at knifepoint.
Actually that did not have anything to do with it, under Dutch law any virtual goods that have value in one way or another are treated as real-life property.
http://www.rechtspraak.nl/Gerechten/Rechtbanken/Leeuwarden/Actualiteiten/Veroordeling+voor+diefstal+van+virtuele+goederen+uit+het+online+computerspel+RuneScape.htm
That last part is roughly translated as:
"The stolen goods consist of a virtual amulet and a virtual mask. According to the court, these virtual goods are goods as stated in article 310, thus making the offence actual theft."
From verdict:
"Article 310 has the purpose to protect civilian property. This should be kept in mind when questioning if virtual goods are goods as mentioned in the article. There are several criteria which must be met. First it is important that the good has value for the owner. This value does not have to be expressed in money.
In the current society, virtual goods from the game RuneScape are deemed important. For large amounts of online gamers these goods have value. The more virtual items a players has, the stronger he is in the game. In addition, these virtual items are traded for real life money, on the internet and on the schoolyard.
In this case, both the mask and the amulet have value for the suspect and his companion as well as the prosecutor.
In addition, it is important to note that a good does not have to be corporeal. According to jurisprudence, non-corporeal goods such as electricity and virtual money are goods. The virtual amulet and virtual mask are not corporeal goods, although they can be perceivable. In accordance with jurisprudence, this is not a limitation to treat them as goods..."
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Thanks for all that supported me. Let me know if there's anything I can do for you.
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Gordon Marinius
Caldari
School of Applied Knowledge
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Posted - 2008.10.22 17:23:00 -
[63]
Originally by: soldieroffortune 258
exactly
if that were in the US, he would have gotten off scot, or nearly scot free, someone was threatening his life and he defended it, and is now in jail for the rest of his life
maybe he should have just let them crush his skull with the crowbar
Quote:
On the night of 20 August 1999, two burglars - Brendon Fearon, 29, and Fred Barras, 16 { entered Bleak House.[3] When confronted, they attempted to flee through a window, but were shot by Martin Fearon in the leg, and Barras in the back.[1] Fearon was able to leave and obtain aid from a couple that lived near the house. He was then taken into hospital, where he was treated. Martin subsequently left the farm and fled to his mother`s house, where he hid the firearm. Later that evening, he arrived at a local inn and stayed for the night. Barras was later found dead in the grounds by a police dog
Mr Martin shot down a 16 year old that was franticly running away from him with an illegal handgun that he had no liscence for. He then left the kid to bleed to death while himself leaving the house to check into a hotel after hiding the gun at his mothers house. For your information he only served 3 years in prison. Even in the US you can only shot someone in self defense. Shooting down a burgler that is running away from you does not count. Leaving him to die instead of calling for medical attention certainly doesn't count.
Mr Martin did not defend som imaginary family against an assassin that was looking to kill him. He caught a 16 year old punk and a 29 year old trying to steal things. When they saw him they instantly ran for the open window to get out of there. One of them made it out with a bullet in the leg and the 16 year old was shot down before geting out.
Full story.
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Radix Salvilines
The Gummy Bears
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Posted - 2008.10.22 17:44:00 -
[64]
Virtual world should not be ascending to the real world.
Whats virtual should remain virtual.
But if those kids forced the other kid in real life to give them the item - for that they should be punished. If they had scammed him inside the game then no - it has never happened in the real world :)
♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥
♥-☻BPINC☺-♥
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Something Random
Gallente
Aliastra
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Posted - 2008.10.22 18:00:00 -
[65]
Edited by: Something Random on 22/10/2008 18:07:42
Originally by: Verone
Originally by: Gordon Marinius
The items are the result of real life effort. Anyway you're misinterpreting my reply.
No I'm not, I'm disagreeing with you.
You're saying that you believe morally, that these kids should be punished for stealing in an online game. I'm saying that it's stupid, and rediculous that two children should be punished for being smarter than someone else in a game...
relevant and reasoned stuff snipped
...It's pathetic to see yet again that politically correct nanny state bull**** is invading every inch of our lives.
One BIG agreement, its absolutely ridiculous.
Originally by: Verone
Originally by: Brock Nelson
Crap, I guess most of us are criminals by Dutch standard.
I'd love to see the police come to my door in an attempt to arrest me for something like this, they'd get told to **** off and stop wasting my time.
Sadly that would most likely result in a police dog munching on your nads and a batton to the head. You know what they are like, anything other than coming quietly isnt tolerated. Once your in there greasy paws, dripping with your dollars, your at the mercy of these pathetic outcomes.
These kids have basically been given a criminal record for nothing whatsoever. Once more... Bloody Ridiculous.
Edit : Only just read this...
Originally by: Mazzarins Demise
That news article doesn't show the entire story. Here's a good link, Here.
The case involved real world violence because they threatened him with a knife and they beat him up.
"[The media reports] omitted a few important details: The duo not only stole the virtual goods, but actually beat the other kid up and threatened him with a knife. They extorted an amulet and mask. In Runescape they're worth a lot of money and in real life people buy them for real money, which is one of the reasons the judge said it was theft.
The boys were convicted for "violent theft". They lured the victim to their house, caught him in a chokehold and kicked and hit him. They used a kitchen knife to threaten the victim. Both thieves showed no regret and didn't acknowledge they did something wrong, which is never good if you find yourself in a Dutch court... The lawyers will appeal."
Which changes things considerably. Now it doesnt seem such a stupid verdict and the actual items and there origin are merely secondary to armed assault. The sentence should have been jail in this case, much tougher than community service at least.
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TU144 TEPPOPNCT'CMEPTHNK
Caldari
State War Academy
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Posted - 2008.10.22 18:01:00 -
[66]
hmmm
should the above be on here?
i mean its all well and good when known p!k3y/ career criminals get what they deserve.
in all honesty they should all be deported back to IRE.
im sure the IRA and other local non-official law enforement groups will welcome them back with open arms to where they belong.
i remember they found one car thief at the entrance to a housing estate crucified on a telegraph poll(litterly)!
it took the garda/fire brigade some time to get him down
what a waste of police time, should have left him there for a day or so.
if they did that to them across the UK we could have a major impact on crime.
i mean how embarrissing to be found nailed up for doing something nasty against the public...
bring back the STOCKS!
CCP made little baby jesus cry by nerfing ghost training
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Bagehi
Association of Commonwealth Enterprises
FOUNDATI0N
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Posted - 2008.10.22 20:02:00 -
[67]
Edited by: Bagehi on 22/10/2008 20:03:05
Ah, threatened the kid with a knife? Well that changes things a bit.
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Estel Arador
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.10.22 22:20:00 -
[68]
Originally by: Ankhesentapemkah
How about forgetting about the media and looking at the actual verdict?
They were convicted solely for the theft of the items, which the court deems equal as real life goods, and they were deemed innocent of the assault and violence.
I guess you missed the part where it says "Het bewezene levert op het misdrijf:
primair diefstal, voorafgegaan en vergezeld van geweld en bedreiging met geweld tegen personen"
So they were convicted for the theft as well as the assault and battery, though the theft is the 'main' crime. Elsewhere in the verdict it's also mentioned that the court considers the assault and battery to be proven.
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Lord Zoran
House of Tempers
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Posted - 2008.10.22 22:40:00 -
[69]
harsh, but ah well could've been worse.
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soldieroffortune 258
Gallente
Trinity Council
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Posted - 2008.10.23 01:25:00 -
[70]
Originally by: Mazzarins Demise
Edited by: Mazzarins Demise on 22/10/2008 16:42:40
That news article doesn't show the entire story. Here's a good link, Here.
The case involved real world violence because they threatened him with a knife and they beat him up.
"[The media reports] omitted a few important details: The duo not only stole the virtual goods, but actually beat the other kid up and threatened him with a knife. They extorted an amulet and mask. In Runescape they're worth a lot of money and in real life people buy them for real money, which is one of the reasons the judge said it was theft.
The boys were convicted for "violent theft". They lured the victim to their house, caught him in a chokehold and kicked and hit him. They used a kitchen knife to threaten the victim. Both thieves showed no regret and didn't acknowledge they did something wrong, which is never good if you find yourself in a Dutch court... The lawyers will appeal."
now if this was included in the first post, we wouldnt have had any flaming
i will now, remove my post
Originally by: soldieroffortune 258
"Eve is about making yourself richer while making the other guy poorer"
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soldieroffortune 258
Gallente
Trinity Council
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Posted - 2008.10.23 01:27:00 -
[71]
Edited by: soldieroffortune 258 on 23/10/2008 01:26:51
Originally by: Gordon Marinius
Originally by: soldieroffortune 258
exactly
if that were in the US, he would have gotten off scot, or nearly scot free, someone was threatening his life and he defended it, and is now in jail for the rest of his life
maybe he should have just let them crush his skull with the crowbar
Quote:
On the night of 20 August 1999, two burglars - Brendon Fearon, 29, and Fred Barras, 16 { entered Bleak House.[3] When confronted, they attempted to flee through a window, but were shot by Martin Fearon in the leg, and Barras in the back.[1] Fearon was able to leave and obtain aid from a couple that lived near the house. He was then taken into hospital, where he was treated. Martin subsequently left the farm and fled to his mother`s house, where he hid the firearm. Later that evening, he arrived at a local inn and stayed for the night. Barras was later found dead in the grounds by a police dog
Mr Martin shot down a 16 year old that was franticly running away from him with an illegal handgun that he had no liscence for. He then left the kid to bleed to death while himself leaving the house to check into a hotel after hiding the gun at his mothers house. For your information he only served 3 years in prison. Even in the US you can only shot someone in self defense. Shooting down a burgler that is running away from you does not count. Leaving him to die instead of calling for medical attention certainly doesn't count.
Mr Martin did not defend som imaginary family against an assassin that was looking to kill him. He caught a 16 year old punk and a 29 year old trying to steal things. When they saw him they instantly ran for the open window to get out of there. One of them made it out with a bullet in the leg and the 16 year old was shot down before geting out.
Full story.
wikipedia ftw i guess
Originally by: soldieroffortune 258
"Eve is about making yourself richer while making the other guy poorer"
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Reverend Void
White Wolf Enterprises
Harmonious Ascent
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Posted - 2008.10.23 02:09:00 -
[72]
Associated Press screwed up, omitting the key details of what happened, creating a chain reaction of the situation being misconstrued. It was the only English language source at the time. Anyone who read that -- myself included -- would assume that the incident was that of virtual threats resulting in virtual theft. Should be no big deal right? Followed by a chorus of voices uttering, "It's so bizarre, the courts there punish virtual theft!" That was the impression and angle most everyone ran with on this.
So the community service the two kids got was based partly on the fact that they used real-life threats and actual violence, and also the fact that the court recognized the virtual items the younger boy was forced to give up as being 'property'.
The defense: nothing was stolen because those items don't exist. They're not real, so they can't be stolen.
The prosecution: the boy had these items before the defendants entered into the picture. after the threats and violence, those items were gone. the fact that something he possessed was taken from him qualifies the items as being 'real' in the eyes of the law, and thus punishable.
Prosecution wins. Community service for the wannabe thugs.
Does it set a precedent now? Not sure, but it's interesting nonetheless.
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Viper ShizzIe
The Illuminati.
Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2008.10.23 05:08:00 -
[73]
Ahaha, on man.
So glad work provides a free legal defense team.
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Sokratesz
Rionnag Alba
Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2008.10.23 07:24:00 -
[74]
Originally by: soldieroffortune 258
Edited by: soldieroffortune 258 on 23/10/2008 01:26:51
Originally by: Gordon Marinius
Originally by: soldieroffortune 258
exactly
if that were in the US, he would have gotten off scot, or nearly scot free, someone was threatening his life and he defended it, and is now in jail for the rest of his life
maybe he should have just let them crush his skull with the crowbar
Quote:
On the night of 20 August 1999, two burglars - Brendon Fearon, 29, and Fred Barras, 16 { entered Bleak House.[3] When confronted, they attempted to flee through a window, but were shot by Martin Fearon in the leg, and Barras in the back.[1] Fearon was able to leave and obtain aid from a couple that lived near the house. He was then taken into hospital, where he was treated. Martin subsequently left the farm and fled to his mother`s house, where he hid the firearm. Later that evening, he arrived at a local inn and stayed for the night. Barras was later found dead in the grounds by a police dog
Mr Martin shot down a 16 year old that was franticly running away from him with an illegal handgun that he had no liscence for. He then left the kid to bleed to death while himself leaving the house to check into a hotel after hiding the gun at his mothers house. For your information he only served 3 years in prison. Even in the US you can only shot someone in self defense. Shooting down a burgler that is running away from you does not count. Leaving him to die instead of calling for medical attention certainly doesn't count.
Mr Martin did not defend som imaginary family against an assassin that was looking to kill him. He caught a 16 year old punk and a 29 year old trying to steal things. When they saw him they instantly ran for the open window to get out of there. One of them made it out with a bullet in the leg and the 16 year old was shot down before geting out.
Full story.
wikipedia ftw i guess
Someone here linked the story on some flag hugging bible thumping site and they made it to look completely different..lmao
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