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Elsbeth Taron
Elsbeth Taron Corporation
0
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Posted - 2012.04.02 07:25:00 -
[1] - Quote
Haven't found a topic discussing this so thought I would.
Unlike some of themore 'interesting' people playing EVE I view it as a game, something to do when I choose and ignore also when I choose. It's meant to be for my enjoyment.
The passive training model has a major flaw in that, if the queue empties, progression in the game halts. There is no recovery from this. No harcore playing to get quickly back to where I would have been if I had logged on.
The player has paid for the gametime and as the training is time sensitive it makes sense that this time not be lost.
I have read about players being given 100k SP when PI was launched, for which a mechanism exists allowing them to assign these SP as they please.
What I propose is that, in the event the queue empties in an active account, the SP continue to accrue. When the player logs on the training time will not have been lost and can be assigned as per the mechanism that exists already.
As the points are not related to any skill in the queue, attribute bonuses cannot be factored into the speed of the accrual, but the base attribute levels are 20 so that can be assumed when adding SP to the total.
This would end this absurd (in my opinion) situation where people are forced to logon or risk their training coming to a halt.
Comments such as "put a long train skill at the end" or "get someone to log on for you" (hand out my password?!? you nuts?) don't wash. Those of us with a life can often find ourselves afk for days at a time. The proposal removes any need for this stuff.
What do you think? |
Wuxi Wuxilla
Wuxi Corporation
6
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Posted - 2012.04.02 07:39:00 -
[2] - Quote
You want to progress in a game when you don't log in for days? Updating the skill queue takes 2 minutes, if you can't do that maybe you just haven't earned any progress?
For skill-progress log in at most(!) once a day. For isk-progress play as much as you want.
I don't think this needs to change.
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Nerath Naaris
Pink Winged Unicorns for Peace Love and Anarchy
88
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Posted - 2012.04.02 08:20:00 -
[3] - Quote
Such a system could be abused to at least party bypass the disadvantages of a remap: Unbanned since 2011.10.20. |
Eladanus
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
22
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Posted - 2012.04.02 08:22:00 -
[4] - Quote
It's a nice idea, and I can see your point. It would be nice to know that if youre ever called away unexpectedly that youre not losing out in-game etc.
However this is ultimately an MMO. Where most require grinding for hours to get any return, I dont think its much to ask that you log in once every few days for 2 minutes to just click a few buttons and leave.
Also see it from CCP's point of view. If people didnt have to log in to be productive there would be a higher chance of people just getting bored/stopping playing all together, which loses them customers and money. Thats the same reason you cant update the skill queue from outside the game, people would just stop playing EVE. |
Eurydice Cosmos
Swords Replace Feelings
0
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Posted - 2012.04.02 12:35:00 -
[5] - Quote
Quote:This would end this absurd (in my opinion) situation where people are forced to logon or risk their training coming to a halt.
THIS JUST IN!
MMO REQUIRES YOU TO LOG IN TO THE GAME TO PROGRESS!
FILM AT ELEVEN! |
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
334
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Posted - 2012.04.02 14:04:00 -
[6] - Quote
Just be glad that there is a queue. FuzzWork Enterprises http://www.fuzzwork.co.uk/ Blueprint calculator, invention chance calculator, isk/m3 Ore chart-á and other 'useful' utilities. |
Xioden Acap
Squirrel Horde Habitat Against Humanity
1
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Posted - 2012.04.02 17:07:00 -
[7] - Quote
Steve Ronuken wrote:Just be glad that there is a queue.
Ahh yes... The good ole' days of cranking up the speakers before you went to bed and being woken up at 3am to EVEMon blasting "SKILL TRAINING COMPLETE"...
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Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat Working Stiffs
573
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Posted - 2012.04.02 17:26:00 -
[8] - Quote
I keep everybody's queue in my corp full by constantly pestering them to queue skills, even when they are out of game (e-mail, IM, etc.)
EVEmon Aura for Android |
Outz Xacto
Echelon Munitions
37
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Posted - 2012.04.02 17:57:00 -
[9] - Quote
Elsbeth Taron wrote:garbage
This is a terrible idea, others already pointed out, it takes less than 2 minutes to solve this, at most every day you would need 2 minutes.
The system is already easy/simple enough and incredibly forgiving now in comparison to before.
You probably would have gotten further suggesting an extension to the current 24 hours, rather than completely watering and dumbing down an aspect of the game so you can be lazy about the game. If you're honestly going to tell me in 2012 that you can't find an internet connection someplace to log in for 2 minutes, you've got bigger issues than a skill queue. |
Jenna Nichols
East Eve Trading Co
3
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Posted - 2012.04.02 18:15:00 -
[10] - Quote
I would like it if you could que up more than 24 hours. Granted you can with level 4 and 5 skills being days or weeks long. But what about two week vacation, your supposed to worry about logging in to fill your skill que on vacation or extended power outage? I don't think you should earn skill points if your que is empty, but it might be nice if you could que up 7 days of skills.
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Wyte Ragnarok
18
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Posted - 2012.04.02 18:58:00 -
[11] - Quote
I've just gotten back after three weeks in hospital. Command Ships 5 will soon finish. There are no issues with the current skill queue or training mechanics. |
Mashie Saldana
Veto. Veto Corp
458
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Posted - 2012.04.02 19:15:00 -
[12] - Quote
Elsbeth Taron wrote:Haven't found a topic discussing this so thought I would.
Unlike some of themore 'interesting' people playing EVE I view it as a game, something to do when I choose and ignore also when I choose. It's meant to be for my enjoyment. Why would you progress if you can't be bothered to even log in once in a blue moon to update the queue?
I can't even imagine how upset you must have been if you had played before the skill queue even existed... Dominique Vasilkovsky Mashie Saldana Monica Foulkes |
OllieNorth
Recidivists Incorporated
139
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Posted - 2012.04.02 19:52:00 -
[13] - Quote
Elsbeth Taron wrote:Haven't found a topic discussing this so thought I would.
Translates to: "I can't be bothered to look anywhere else in this forum for the forty-three other threads saying this or something similar."
As much as it makes economic sense for CCP to take your money without you logging in even once, forcing players to log in from time to time is a good thing.
Also, I concur, pre-queue training was brutal, you always had some random long-as-hell skill in process that you queued up each night. |
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
382
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Posted - 2012.04.02 20:51:00 -
[14] - Quote
Outz Xacto wrote: If you're honestly going to tell me in 2012 that you can't find an internet connection someplace to log in for 2 minutes, you've got bigger issues than a skill queue.
Pre-skill queue, I spent three months wandering around Georgia. When I was in Tbilisi, internet access wasn't too much of a problem, though it wasn't what I would call reliable. Pretty much anywhere else and I had my work cut out for me to find somewhere to swap a skill. So yes, there are circumstances where finding internet access can be a problem.
Having said that, I did manage. I think I came back with three out of four cruiser 5s trained. Even a short queue would have helped me immensely and we have that now. A longer one would have been useful.
I'm pretty torn on the issue these days. Yes, we want to make people log in. But ultimately, if they are just logging in to swap a skill here and there, does it really help the game that much? I'm not as convinced as I once was. Especially as CCP slowly ramps up system requirements, having a throw-away laptop with you at all times to pirate a connection as you're passing through a semi-major town gets harder and harder.
What's the solution? I don't know. I've been managing fine on the current skill queue, but extending it a bit wouldn't be all bad. I'm disinclined towards freely accumulating unallocated SP, even at a reduced rate. There's just way too much opportunity for abuse there. |
Outz Xacto
Echelon Munitions
37
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Posted - 2012.04.02 22:30:00 -
[15] - Quote
Zhilia Mann wrote: Pre-skill queue
myheadisfullof.jpg
>_> Though your example ended up driving home exactly the point I was making so :P all is forgiven.
Edit: failure to quote! |
Lost Greybeard
Fenrir's Dogs of War Union 0f Revolution
4
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Posted - 2012.04.03 00:19:00 -
[16] - Quote
Alternately: Play the game longer than a month, you should have at least one skill that requires longer than your hypothetical 4-day window by that point. Hell, train BC5 for the skill change, if you're that upset about it, that's a good 20-30 depending on your map. |
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
382
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Posted - 2012.04.03 01:17:00 -
[17] - Quote
Outz Xacto wrote:myheadisfullof.jpg
>_> Though your example ended up driving home exactly the point I was making so :P all is forgiven.
Edit: failure to quote!
Find me decent internet access in Mtskheta. I dare you.
But yes, fine, it's been a few years. |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
3223
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Posted - 2012.04.03 08:47:00 -
[18] - Quote
Steve Ronuken wrote:Just be glad that there is a queue.
Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players.
Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/ |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
3223
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Posted - 2012.04.03 08:51:00 -
[19] - Quote
Xioden Acap wrote:Steve Ronuken wrote:Just be glad that there is a queue. Ahh yes... The good ole' days of cranking up the speakers before you went to bed and being woken up at 3am to EVEMon blasting "SKILL TRAINING COMPLETE"...
Man, I remember cycling home from work like a crazy man in my lunch break, powering up the stairs, starting Caldari Cruiser 5 and then cycling back to work like a crazy man.
Plenty of exercise but no lunch for Malcy that day Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players.
Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/ |
J Kunjeh
388
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Posted - 2012.04.03 11:57:00 -
[20] - Quote
Zhilia Mann wrote: I'm pretty torn on the issue these days. Yes, we want to make people log in. But ultimately, if they are just logging in to swap a skill here and there, does it really help the game that much? I'm not as convinced as I once was.
You've got it all wrong. This isn't about "helping the game", it's about helping CCP's wallet. This is a way to keep people sub'd, not about getting people to log in occasionally (even though that's what CCP will tell you). And don't get me wrong, it's not a bad thing that CCP does this to ensure some people will remain sub'd, that's just business in a hyper capitalist world. "The world as we know it came about through an anomaly (anomou)" (The Gospel of Philip, 1-5)-á |
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Zaerlorth Maelkor
The Maverick Navy Against ALL Authorities
4
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Posted - 2012.04.03 13:23:00 -
[21] - Quote
Xioden Acap wrote:Steve Ronuken wrote:Just be glad that there is a queue. Ahh yes... The good ole' days of cranking up the speakers before you went to bed and being woken up at 3am to EVEMon blasting "SKILL TRAINING COMPLETE"...
I would give this post 1000 likes if it were possible, instead you will have to settle for 3... |
Baneken
Hyvat Pahat ja Eric The Polaris Syndicate
95
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Posted - 2012.04.03 13:33:00 -
[22] - Quote
I remember when the queue first came and wonder of putting all those rank 1 lvl 1 skills I had skipped to queue all at once. Worst thing about queue was those 5-10min skills that pretty much ensured you had to wait for those 10min doing nothing or dragging all the books with you. Hell, we didn't even had a remapping back then so if you had bad attributes, well too bad for you suck it up baby.
Newbies have no idea how lucky they are with all these skill queues and multiple remaps and even tutorials that actually try to teach you at least something. |
MamerJamer
Phantom Squad Nulli Secunda
0
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Posted - 2012.04.03 16:23:00 -
[23] - Quote
Xioden Acap wrote:Steve Ronuken wrote:Just be glad that there is a queue. Ahh yes... The good ole' days of cranking up the speakers before you went to bed and being woken up at 3am to EVEMon blasting "SKILL TRAINING COMPLETE"...
Wow...You have no idea. Spent the first few years like that. Those midnight to 4am skills finishing were the worst.....but worth it...
To those who complain, you have it soooo easy in Eve now from skill training to..well..everything. It is spoon fed to you and ccp cleans your mouth with the bib after each mouthful. Grow up.
We didn't have tutorials, we threw mods on ships and went "hmm, lets see what this does" commonly known as famous last words in pvp, right next to "well..that didn't work" and "Real men HULL TANK". If you can not have the forward thinking of knowing that you will be away for more than a day and changing your skill training to a longer skill, I am sorry. It happens. Since 03, it pisses me off if I ever have downtime not training. It has been a year or so since the last slip up, but I know for a fact that I probably have added a total of 10 full days in those years where I could have been training something..........it keeps me up at night man.... |
Elsbeth Taron
Elsbeth Taron Corporation
1
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Posted - 2012.04.04 13:32:00 -
[24] - Quote
MamerJamer wrote:Xioden Acap wrote:Steve Ronuken wrote:Just be glad that there is a queue. Ahh yes... The good ole' days of cranking up the speakers before you went to bed and being woken up at 3am to EVEMon blasting "SKILL TRAINING COMPLETE"... Wow...You have no idea. Spent the first few years like that. Those midnight to 4am skills finishing were the worst.....but worth it... To those who complain, you have it soooo easy in Eve now from skill training to..well..everything. It is spoon fed to you and ccp cleans your mouth with the bib after each mouthful. Grow up. We didn't have tutorials, we threw mods on ships and went "hmm, lets see what this does" commonly known as famous last words in pvp, right next to "well..that didn't work" and "Real men HULL TANK". If you can not have the forward thinking of knowing that you will be away for more than a day and changing your skill training to a longer skill, I am sorry. It happens. Since 03, it pisses me off if I ever have downtime not training. It has been a year or so since the last slip up, but I know for a fact that I probably have added a total of 10 full days in those years where I could have been training something..........it keeps me up at night man....
lmao! when I were a lad we had to run to river to wash ourselves before breakfast and that were in mid winter
It's a game, not something to compensate for your lack of penile length. I think you're the one who needs to "grow up". To all the others who believe having it hard makes you look big, well it doesn't. Remembering the good old days adds nothing to the quality of the game.
The only solid response in this thread stated it's all about the money, which is true! Eve is a commerical enterprise and anything that removes unnecessary aggro from the game - such as the learning skills - can only benefit the game as a whole, by helping retain new players. Without them you would have noone to listen to you brag about how marvellous you are for surviving those harsh years. |
MamerJamer
Phantom Squad Nulli Secunda
1
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Posted - 2012.04.04 14:51:00 -
[25] - Quote
And through the use of a Alt on another character, I do run a corp devoted to helping newer players in the harsh universe of Eve. Thank You! I don't accept everyone, but take the time and effort to find them on my own and determine which ones would actually benefit from my assistance.
You take the responses way to critical. Perhaps with other older players you may run into ego's, I look at EvE as something in my spare time to just get away from working two jobs seven days a week and chill out and talk to the guys in my corps and just have a good time.
Calm down, its just internetz spaceship pixels!!
As for ccp. We have to assume that regardless of the good and bad and scams, whether they be internal or external issues, that in the end they will maintain their focus of what they want EvE to be. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
5914
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Posted - 2012.04.04 17:34:00 -
[26] - Quote
Complete non-issue.
If you can't play, you can't play, so you can't change your skills so you can't GǣprogressGǥ (which is the wrong word for it but stillGǪ).
If you so desperately want or need those SP, make sure to get them. There are plenty of solutions for it already. Breaking a significant game mechanic by haphazardly throwing unallocated SP into the game isn't a good solution to you not managing your time. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Find more rants over at Tippis' Rants. |
Mag's
the united Negative Ten.
7392
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Posted - 2012.04.05 00:39:00 -
[27] - Quote
Elsbeth Taron wrote:lmao! when I were a lad we had to run to river to wash ourselves before breakfast and that were in mid winter
It's a game, not something to compensate for your lack of penile length. I think you're the one who needs to "grow up". To all the others who believe having it hard makes you look big, well it doesn't. Remembering the good old days adds nothing to the quality of the game.
The only solid response in this thread stated it's all about the money, which is true! Eve is a commerical enterprise and anything that removes unnecessary aggro from the game - such as the learning skills - can only benefit the game as a whole, by helping retain new players. Without them you would have noone to listen to you brag about how marvellous you are for surviving those harsh years. Yes it's a game, with a mechanic which enables you to train small skills as well as long ones. If you cannot organize yourself to set skills every now and then, whenever your skill sheet reaches that last 24 hours, then that is your issue not the games.
CCP Zulu..... Forcing players to dock at the captain's quarters is a form of what we actually wanted to get through, which is making Incarna a seamless part of the EVE Online experience. |
Ajita al Tchar
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
193
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Posted - 2012.04.05 01:38:00 -
[28] - Quote
Xioden Acap wrote:Steve Ronuken wrote:Just be glad that there is a queue. Ahh yes... The good ole' days of cranking up the speakers before you went to bed and being woken up at 3am to EVEMon blasting "SKILL TRAINING COMPLETE"...
I swear that sometimes that VOICE and that PHRASE invade my dreams to this day, long after the implementation of the skill queue. That and the wormhole activation sound, but that's still relevant I guess. |
Alpheias
Euphoria Released 0ccupational Hazzard
592
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Posted - 2012.04.05 03:24:00 -
[29] - Quote
Perpetuum's character progression is based on SP accumulation over time and then you can purchase whatever rank you want in whatever desired skills, much like what the OP wants for EVE.
If this change were to be applied in EVE, the generally accepted standard would shift in favor of unassigned points rather than well trained characters and make a mockery of the thought and skill that goes into planning a proper character.
By making this change you would effectively be devaluing the entire existing character base who have any skill points that are not focused on whatever someone specifically wanted. I'd kill kittens and puppies and bunnies I'd maim toddlers and teens and then more |
Ireland VonVicious
Gurista Saints Assassin Confederacy
45
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Posted - 2012.04.05 04:28:00 -
[30] - Quote
The OP has a point in that it could be done a little better.
OP fails in how to fix it.
Answer is far simpler. Allow toons to have atleast 2 skills in que no matter how long they are. Still leave the 24hr aspect for 3 or more skills to be trained in next 24hrs.
OMG problem solved. |
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