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Einheriar Ulrich
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Posted - 2004.07.01 15:20:00 -
[61]
Originally by: Danton Marcellus There's absolutely nothing wrong with nerfing alliances, there's some 20 CA members on at any given time and most of them docked playing counterstrike or whatnot yet people have this notion that they control the right hand side of the map.
Nerf the map and enter jumpdrive and let the people who actually log on to play utilize the 0.0.
Your joking, and smell like troll.
Disclaimer: yes it is you not us So Say I. Einheriar Ulrich of the Bloodline of Einheriar.
****Minion Of VOTF****
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Einheriar Ulrich
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Posted - 2004.07.01 15:20:00 -
[62]
Originally by: Danton Marcellus There's absolutely nothing wrong with nerfing alliances, there's some 20 CA members on at any given time and most of them docked playing counterstrike or whatnot yet people have this notion that they control the right hand side of the map.
Nerf the map and enter jumpdrive and let the people who actually log on to play utilize the 0.0.
Your joking, and smell like troll.
Disclaimer: yes it is you not us So Say I. Einheriar Ulrich of the Bloodline of Einheriar.
****Minion Of VOTF****
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Mon Palae
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Posted - 2004.07.01 16:05:00 -
[63]
Originally by: agentsmitty i think there needs to be 2 or more "safe areas" seperated by 0.0 space, the catch is, 1 of these safe areas has a certain something that the other doesnt, and this certain something should be at least 4000-8000m3, making it only possible to cart around in an indy, and instajumps should be removed too, this would make mercenary/ escort corps much more viable and make trading more dangerous. Any thoughts?
Ever try getting an indy past a gatecamp without instajumps? It is impossible unless the gate campers are all unconscious. This was actually tested on Chaos a long time ago with a variety of indy ship setups and a variety of escort setups. Know how many times the indy made the gate? ZERO times.
In theory it is cool to gather and escort and clear the path ahead of you and occasionally corps will do this but in practice it is simply impractical in the extreme to gather an escort for every hauler everytime they need to go somewhere. I wish it were otherwise but this is a game and not real life and people are not on 23/7 at the beck and call of haulers.
Besides, even if you took all guns off of every ship in EVE and made it pure carebear land I would still want instajumps. You try making a 50j run in an indy with no BMs and a top speed of 120 m/s (then imagine doing that several times in one sitting and facing repeating that a few times a week). NOT fun! This is my primary reason for using them. Skating by pirate camps is just a very nice side effect for me (and trust me...pirates who know their stuff can stop an instajumping indy...I have several vaporized indies behind me that attest to that).
As for the chokepoint issue a few things:
Yes, getting by chokepoints is not very hard most times.
No, there are not routes of just a few more jumps around most chokepoints that people are too lazy to use. If there were they wouldn't really be chokepoints. Alternate routes usually turn a 20j trip into a 120j trip. BIG difference. What's more, I have often found the alternate route goes past a chokepoint in someone else's area of control so you are back where you started with that. That said once past a chokepoint roaming around in 0.0 is pretty easy.
Yes, alliances have every right to restrict the space they guard from others. It would be great if all space were free space for all to travel but as of now the dynamics in EVE do not allow for it. Alliances spend a great deal of time and resources protecting their space. Why should anyone else expect to stroll in and take the riches in their without contributing in the slightest? If you stood guard over a gold mine you found in the mountains and fought off raiders daily would you let any of the town people stroll in and mine your gold? I think not. Some alliances sell hunting passes to use their space safely (or at least safe from them). So if it is NPC spawns you are after pay up and go hunting for the day. If you make good use of that time you can very easily come away with more than you spent to get in. Just don't let them catch you mining (NPCs are a neverending supply...ore is much more limited).
My only gripe with the current setup for Alliance controlled space is they control HUGE portions of space. I still think chokepoints should be there but the areas they "block" off should be considerably smaller (say 10-15 systems). CCP would need to up the ore distribution so each of these areas had something worth protecting. Doing this would see more Alliances probably form upping the dynamism of their interactions and political intrigue. There would be more interesting space between these alliances that others could brave to hunt NPCs and so on (think of like castles of old spread about with he wild and lawless wilderness between them). 0.0 would be more populated giving pirates more traffic to hunt. Empire peeps wanting to try 0.0 would have a shot at getting in. Alliances would have less space but better control over what they do possess. If they want more they need notably more forces to maintain control.
Dunno...looks good on paper to me at least.
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Mon Palae
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Posted - 2004.07.01 16:05:00 -
[64]
Originally by: agentsmitty i think there needs to be 2 or more "safe areas" seperated by 0.0 space, the catch is, 1 of these safe areas has a certain something that the other doesnt, and this certain something should be at least 4000-8000m3, making it only possible to cart around in an indy, and instajumps should be removed too, this would make mercenary/ escort corps much more viable and make trading more dangerous. Any thoughts?
Ever try getting an indy past a gatecamp without instajumps? It is impossible unless the gate campers are all unconscious. This was actually tested on Chaos a long time ago with a variety of indy ship setups and a variety of escort setups. Know how many times the indy made the gate? ZERO times.
In theory it is cool to gather and escort and clear the path ahead of you and occasionally corps will do this but in practice it is simply impractical in the extreme to gather an escort for every hauler everytime they need to go somewhere. I wish it were otherwise but this is a game and not real life and people are not on 23/7 at the beck and call of haulers.
Besides, even if you took all guns off of every ship in EVE and made it pure carebear land I would still want instajumps. You try making a 50j run in an indy with no BMs and a top speed of 120 m/s (then imagine doing that several times in one sitting and facing repeating that a few times a week). NOT fun! This is my primary reason for using them. Skating by pirate camps is just a very nice side effect for me (and trust me...pirates who know their stuff can stop an instajumping indy...I have several vaporized indies behind me that attest to that).
As for the chokepoint issue a few things:
Yes, getting by chokepoints is not very hard most times.
No, there are not routes of just a few more jumps around most chokepoints that people are too lazy to use. If there were they wouldn't really be chokepoints. Alternate routes usually turn a 20j trip into a 120j trip. BIG difference. What's more, I have often found the alternate route goes past a chokepoint in someone else's area of control so you are back where you started with that. That said once past a chokepoint roaming around in 0.0 is pretty easy.
Yes, alliances have every right to restrict the space they guard from others. It would be great if all space were free space for all to travel but as of now the dynamics in EVE do not allow for it. Alliances spend a great deal of time and resources protecting their space. Why should anyone else expect to stroll in and take the riches in their without contributing in the slightest? If you stood guard over a gold mine you found in the mountains and fought off raiders daily would you let any of the town people stroll in and mine your gold? I think not. Some alliances sell hunting passes to use their space safely (or at least safe from them). So if it is NPC spawns you are after pay up and go hunting for the day. If you make good use of that time you can very easily come away with more than you spent to get in. Just don't let them catch you mining (NPCs are a neverending supply...ore is much more limited).
My only gripe with the current setup for Alliance controlled space is they control HUGE portions of space. I still think chokepoints should be there but the areas they "block" off should be considerably smaller (say 10-15 systems). CCP would need to up the ore distribution so each of these areas had something worth protecting. Doing this would see more Alliances probably form upping the dynamism of their interactions and political intrigue. There would be more interesting space between these alliances that others could brave to hunt NPCs and so on (think of like castles of old spread about with he wild and lawless wilderness between them). 0.0 would be more populated giving pirates more traffic to hunt. Empire peeps wanting to try 0.0 would have a shot at getting in. Alliances would have less space but better control over what they do possess. If they want more they need notably more forces to maintain control.
Dunno...looks good on paper to me at least.
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agrizla
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Posted - 2004.07.01 16:30:00 -
[65]
Originally by: Mon Palae My only gripe with the current setup for Alliance controlled space is they control HUGE portions of space. I still think chokepoints should be there but the areas they "block" off should be considerably smaller (say 10-15 systems)
I like the sounds of this - especially with POS. Alliances are (let's be honest about it) far too big in terms of member corps - hell there's corps that'd be slaughtering each other if they weren't forced into being in the same alliance.
More than anything else it makes the whole game more strategic and actually opens the possibility of an alliance being defeated (rather than giving up through greed as appears to be happening "up north" )
Sounds like a plan to me
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agrizla
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Posted - 2004.07.01 16:30:00 -
[66]
Originally by: Mon Palae My only gripe with the current setup for Alliance controlled space is they control HUGE portions of space. I still think chokepoints should be there but the areas they "block" off should be considerably smaller (say 10-15 systems)
I like the sounds of this - especially with POS. Alliances are (let's be honest about it) far too big in terms of member corps - hell there's corps that'd be slaughtering each other if they weren't forced into being in the same alliance.
More than anything else it makes the whole game more strategic and actually opens the possibility of an alliance being defeated (rather than giving up through greed as appears to be happening "up north" )
Sounds like a plan to me
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