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DJ Geist
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Posted - 2008.10.28 21:36:00 -
[1]
Today there was an outage that supposedly required a 30 minute outage for eve, but then the problems persisted. Even if eve was off and on periodically, it still was not reliable for any players to initiate any large-scale in game operations (missions, fleet ops, etc).
I understand there's one hour of each day set aside for daily maintenance. However, for server problems and other outages that make you shut down eve for a while, all players should have their gaming minutes extended in proportion to the amount of time that eve was rendered unplayable/unreliable. |
jade ronin
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Posted - 2008.10.28 22:10:00 -
[2]
YES
when we where able to keep training without an active account i could see not reimbursing game time. ccp didnt want to be giving away stuff for free and i agree with that but with unexpected outages we are paying for a service that we are not reciving. even games like "wow" replace time lost due to server crashes.
please not have worse customer service than "wow" that would be really bad
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DEATHsyphon
Gallente IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
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Posted - 2008.10.28 22:22:00 -
[3]
Read the User rights bit, theirs nothing in there about being able to fly spaceships around the tubes of the internet. -------------------- I'm not not going to pod you! |
Drake Draconis
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.10.28 22:43:00 -
[4]
Your given training time for the outage.... provided your a "paying" customer.
Otherwise your wasting your time.
The only time I'll see them compensating us for anything of that nature would be if the game was down for 12 hours or more.
Even then.... your training never stops provided your PAYING for your account.
/me grumbles @ OP /me thumbs down
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Kaptain Kruncher
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Posted - 2008.10.29 11:59:00 -
[5]
Brilliant!
Let's see, 15 dolars a month, on average of course, that's about 50 cents a day. System is down or laggy for a couple of hours.....lemme do the math here.
ChaChing! Here's your nickel.
Fail. Move along to the Pampers isle please.
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DJ Geist
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Posted - 2008.10.29 14:27:00 -
[6]
or, let's see, 58 cents or so per customer, multiplied by tens of thousands of subscribers = a fair incentive for ccp to be on top of their game and to make anticipatory upgrades. So even that would be nice.
Besides, read the damn post - the request was not for money back to customers, but game time extended proportionate to when the game was down. That skills continue training is a pretty meager aspect of gameplay. If we pay for 2 months of gameplay at a time, we should actually get 2 months of when we can log in and play the game.
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El Yatta
Mercenary Forces
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Posted - 2008.10.29 14:54:00 -
[7]
What a ridiculous whine.
Your argument proves how facetious the request is - you point out its a tiny amount per player, but across the whole player base, its quite a lot for CCP. So.... why would they incur a big loss for themselves while not really satisfying anyone individually?
Sometimes a bit of downtime is unavoidable, we all live in the real world and know that these things happen. Your complaint is just a tiny scion of the ridiculous compensation culture we have at the moment - had an accident? Sue someone for money. Game down for an hour or two, demand more time.... _______________________________________________ Mercenary Forces |
Esmenet
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Posted - 2008.10.29 15:18:00 -
[8]
Oh noes i lost 10 cents.
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Kaptain Kruncher
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Posted - 2008.10.29 15:33:00 -
[9]
Quote: a fair incentive for ccp to be on top of their game and to make anticipatory upgrades
It seems like they are on top of thier game. There really is very little downtime. Ever read the Dev Blog? They are constantly improving the system. They employ patches and anticipate most problems. They usually let us know if there is going to be extended downtime. Am I missing something?
Why some players create this adversarial relationship with CCP is a mystery to me. If you think your being cheated- quit.
Fail again.
And I offer one more time, an escort to the Pampers isle.
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DJ Geist
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Posted - 2008.10.29 18:55:00 -
[10]
Originally by: El Yatta What a ridiculous whine.
Your argument proves how facetious the request is - you point out its a tiny amount per player, but across the whole player base, its quite a lot for CCP. So.... why would they incur a big loss for themselves while not really satisfying anyone individually?
Sometimes a bit of downtime is unavoidable, we all live in the real world and know that these things happen. Your complaint is just a tiny scion of the ridiculous compensation culture we have at the moment - had an accident? Sue someone for money. Game down for an hour or two, demand more time....
"Compensation culture"? How about just being a smart consumer and making sure you get what you pay for? If I pay for 60 days of game time, I want to actually have 60 days when I get to log in and reliably play the game. I do the same thing with my internet bill: if the internet is down for 2 days straight, I ask that my bill be adjusted to reflect that I did not get a full month of internet. My wife and I also just signed a lease, but we are moving in on an odd mid-month date. The rental company prorated the rental for us for the days of the partial month that we will be there. The point of being a savvy consumer is actually getting what you pay for. If you think it is unreasonable for consumers to seek this, then you are just a tool/fanboy of the companies and business that you slavishly hold dear, and I've got some 59 and 58 day GTC's I could sell you fro $34.99 (you don't mind, right?)
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Political Prisoner
Hedion University
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Posted - 2008.10.30 09:35:00 -
[11]
Originally by: DJ Geist "Compensation culture"? How about just being a smart consumer and making sure you get what you pay for? If I pay for 60 days of game time, I want to actually have 60 days when I get to log in and reliably play the game. I do the same thing with my internet bill: if the internet is down for 2 days straight, I ask that my bill be adjusted to reflect that I did not get a full month of internet. My wife and I also just signed a lease, but we are moving in on an odd mid-month date. The rental company prorated the rental for us for the days of the partial month that we will be there. The point of being a savvy consumer is actually getting what you pay for. If you think it is unreasonable for consumers to seek this, then you are just a tool/fanboy of the companies and business that you slavishly hold dear, and I've got some 59 and 58 day GTC's I could sell you fro $34.99 (you don't mind, right?)
This
Respectfully,
Political Prisoner
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Drake Draconis
Minmatar Shadow Cadre
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Posted - 2008.10.30 16:09:00 -
[12]
"Let them have there Cake and Eat it too" -Said person was beheaded shortly there-after.
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TornSoul
BIG Libertas Fidelitas
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Posted - 2008.10.30 19:32:00 -
[13]
Edited by: TornSoul on 30/10/2008 19:32:42
Let's test the hypocrisy gene:
I'll vote for this, if everytime the server starts up earlier (or goes down later) for DT, it's likewise added (or rather subtracted) to your total gaming time.
Any takers?
BIG Lottery |
DJ Geist
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Posted - 2008.10.30 20:49:00 -
[14]
yes, I'll take that
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ian perrins
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Posted - 2008.10.30 22:39:00 -
[15]
I dont like paying for things that dont work.. who does? and normaly.. when something doesnt work the supplier is responsible to ensure the customer... yes we ARE youre customers ccp however undervalued.. is properly re-embursed so i vote we should be re-embursed for extended dt`s and server crashes.. since after all if ever 1 lasts more than 3 days we`ll lose skill training too!!
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Blastil
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Posted - 2008.10.31 01:39:00 -
[16]
I can only assume you train <6 skills, because otherwise this doesn't MATTER. This whole time I was training energy management 5, and lost exactly 0 hours of game time. while what you ask for wouldn't be unreasonable if you were say- paying for time in a strip club- This is EVE, and we already deal with a dayly server outtage called DOWN TIME. Set a long skill when you can log in, and quit crying. the 50 SP you lost in the time you were gone won't make that much of a difference in how long you get into BoB.
Go back to your whining cave.
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DJ Geist
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Posted - 2008.10.31 03:40:00 -
[17]
"diapers", "cry", "whine", "emoragequit", etc.
What passes for chivalry on the internet is.... interesting. In the eve forums, it comes out as a delectable mix of pompousness and aggressiveness, and its actually a mark of immaturity from the people that can't rationally weigh the merits of various options and consider what might make views that they oppose plausible.
Having your skill train is a passive form of participation in the game: it is what gives you character continuity. However, it is active play, i.e. logging in and flying about that makes the game an activity. When I buy 60 days of game time, I should get 60 actual days of active game time (not counting the scheduled outages, as mentioned in my first post). If there are outages and issues, that is fine since it is to some extent inevitable, however the time lost should be on CCP's coin, and not the consumer's.
If you really, in the depths of your heart where you are honest with yourself and not just defensively lashing out on people on an internet forum, believe that skill training is adequate gameplay and equal to it, then no increment of substituting logged in active gameplay with passive skill training should bother you.
In that case, I've got some 60 day "never log in" skill train cards to sell you, $34.99 a pop. I know you might be the kind of player that might use them up training some very large ship. But then what? Is it really "the same"?
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Kaptain Kruncher
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Posted - 2008.10.31 13:53:00 -
[18]
I don't really see where you were abused. You post your opinion about what might be a good change, to you, and most people think it is a ridiculous idea smacking of Entitlement Syndrome- Some good natured ribbing follows...what's the problem?
I think this is an unbelievably good game and has great support, better than anything I've seen. We play in this hugely complex virtual world for about 5 cents an hour. But you want to be reimbursed for every minute that you don't get to play because of some unforseen system problem. I think that is totally unresonable.
You claim that you are a "savvy" consumer. Well, when you installed CCP's software on your computer you clicked the "Accept" button during the software install as a condition of having the privlege to use CCP's software. Before clicking that "Accept" button, you were given the opportunity to read the EULA and click the "Decline" button if you did not agree to CCP's methods. Here, "savvy" consumer, is what you agreed to: (Cut and pasted from the EULA)
NO WARRANTIES The Software, System, Game and all Game Content, and all other services and material provided in connection therewith, are provided "AS IS," with all faults, and without warranty of any kind. You assume all risk of use and all risk associated with accessing the System and playing the Game.
CCP disclaims all warranties, whether express or implied, including without limitation the warranties of merchantability, fitness for particular purpose and non-infringement. There is no warranty against interference with your enjoyment of the Game. CCP does not warrant that the operation of the System or your access to the System, or that your use of the Software, will be uninterrupted or error-free, nor that the System or Software will be compatible with your hardware and software.
While CCP attempts to have the System available at most times, CCP does not guarantee that the System will always be available, or that the System will not become unavailable during Game play. The System may become unavailable for a number of reasons, including without limitation during the performance of maintenance to the System, for the implementation of new software, for emergency situations and due to equipment or telecommunications failures.
Obviously, you have changed your mind about the EULA and it is entirely within your right as a "Savvy" consumer to cancel your subscription. Without being reimbursed for time not used, of course.
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DJ Geist
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Posted - 2008.10.31 15:33:00 -
[19]
What CCP has the right to do on the one hand, and what they should do for the sake of fairness or customer service may be two different things. CCP may very well have strongarmed its customers into accepting all kinds of terms which its customers explicitly accept as terms of use: in fact it is somewhat typical for the more ruthless and unscrupulous businesses to write all kinds of things in the clauses of a contract for something people very much want. But my argument is not about what CCP is legally obligated to do: it is an argument about what they should do in order to be fair.
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Drake Draconis
Minmatar Brutor tribe
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Posted - 2008.10.31 16:12:00 -
[20]
Whats Fair?
You would "Dare" use such a word in the context of EVE-Online?
Pfft.... I learned the hard way... there's no such thing as fair.
Nothing in life is ever "Fair"
It's what you make of it. All your doing is throwing a fit over a few nickles to a measly 25 cents.
honestly.... the only way your going to get compensated is if the outage is signiificant... not to mention repetitive.
If your that sore about it... then leave.... or subscribe to the bloody game. Either way.... your crying over spilt milk.
I'm quite pleased I'm getting all of this and more for a measily 14 bucks a month.
The only way I'm going to change my mind on the matter is if the outage is 1 to 3 days long.
Then I'm going to get upset. It's not the end of the world if I can't play eve at the end of the day... "**** happens" as they say.
Of course if it was every week.... again.. I'd be upset.
This is a matter of rationality.... and reason... not your bloody pocket book.
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DJ Geist
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Posted - 2008.10.31 16:43:00 -
[21]
Edited by: DJ Geist on 31/10/2008 16:44:03 Edited by: DJ Geist on 31/10/2008 16:42:57 "Whats Fair? You would "Dare" use such a word in the context of EVE-Online?"
...Yes, because there is a distinction between the content of the fictional universe that is the game, and the real-world business that provides the game. If I walk into a bookstore to buy the latest thug-crime novel, and when I proceed to pay at the front desk the clerk punches me in the nose and takes my wallet, that is unjust and unacceptable even if the characters in the novel that I purchase also act that way. If I say to the clerk "that was criminal and uncalled for!," and the clerk responds "you dare to talk about what's criminal when purchasing a book about thug life? I should blow your head off right now", his response would be absurd. Your appeal to some claim that a business can be unscrupulous, because the fictional universe that it sells is about lacking scruples, is absurd for the same reasons.
And again, the reference to monetary compensation is out of place (this thread is already littered with that equivocation) because that is not what I argued for. I'm putting out the suggestion that CCP should add the game time that was lost by unscheduled outages, not that they should toss me some nickels and dimes. It is not uncommon for businesses to credit consumers for time when a service was not used due to some breakdown or issue on the side of the business, where the consumers had paid for a longer period of use of that service in advance.
Now what I find interesting in your response is that you seem to admit that there is a threshold at which you as a customer would think that CCP was giving you the short end of the stick. So, for you, a one day outage starts to be your boiling point. This is interesting because it seems to cross over from the "CCP can/should do whatever it wants" side, into the side that concedes that CCP can be out of line and unfair, even if it is within the terms of its EULA. In other words, you agree with me and just differ over the threshold of when consumers should seek redress. I'm open to that kind of discussion.
Oh and the word is "measly" not "measily" - I'm not pointing that out to land sucker punches at you, I'm just pointing out the misspelling.
And also, it's no longer 14 bucks a month. CCP upped the ante on what they charge us, remember? The various moves by CCP to shake more money out of the pockets of its customers are part of what makes fanboy consumers finally become a bit more critical, and motivates some of the closer attention to CCP's recent business practices.
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Kaptain Kruncher
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Posted - 2008.11.01 11:29:00 -
[22]
You sound like a dissatisfied customer and should quit.
When you use words like "strong-arm" over a user liscense agreement- well, I just think you have some serious issues.
It seems that people in this forum don't agree with you- check your vote column.
The more you try to justify your point- the more you seem to have lost your mind. Really, it's sickening.
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Heartstone
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2008.11.01 12:02:00 -
[23]
EULA ---
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Max Scheler
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Posted - 2008.11.01 14:07:00 -
[24]
seems straightforward
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Drake Draconis
Minmatar Brutor tribe
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Posted - 2008.11.01 17:36:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Kaptain Kruncher You sound like a dissatisfied customer and should quit.
When you use words like "strong-arm" over a user liscense agreement- well, I just think you have some serious issues.
It seems that people in this forum don't agree with you- check your vote column.
The more you try to justify your point- the more you seem to have lost your mind. Really, it's sickening.
You know... I really need to start paying attention to people who can sum up what I think in smaller statements.
Kaptain Kruncer FTW
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Shakari Sween
Space Oddysey Pupule 'Ohana
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Posted - 2008.11.01 17:51:00 -
[26]
Its the internet, things go wonky at times, they only way you should ever get reimbersed is if you can prove that you are loged on 23/7, which isnt going to happen.
If you go by this same thinking you should only pay for the time you log on. While this is subscription option on some mmo's in asia it hasnt been popular in western places. It can also be restricting to who can play as you often need a credit card.
While people will always want more than they are given companies will not want to give more than they have to.
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DJ Geist
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Posted - 2008.11.01 18:13:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Kaptain Kruncher You sound like a dissatisfied customer and should quit.
When you use words like "strong-arm" over a user liscense agreement- well, I just think you have some serious issues.
It seems that people in this forum don't agree with you- check your vote column.
The more you try to justify your point- the more you seem to have lost your mind. Really, it's sickening.
"Serious issues" eh? That's quite a weighty suggestion - do you mean like some sort of grave mental illness, or perhaps some kind of history of abuse? I'm just wondering where you go from reading a view that you disagree with, that your read about in a few posts from a stranger on a forum, to speculating about grave, deep problems that the person himself might have? It seems quite a dramatic leap. The other option is of course, that you lack the skills and civility to engage in respectful discussion among adults over issues where viewpoints may differ. Sitting in front of an MMMORP for hours on end pew-pewing can definitely help one's brain atrophy in this regard.
And do you really find it "sickening"? Really? Let me get this straight, you read a post suggesting that consumers should get the full time of what the pay for, and it made you ill at the thought of it? I mean I get sickened too, but it's usually from something like thinking about Darfur, or getting food poisoning. I don't get physically ill when I encounter people seeking redress for something. I mean you must just collapse in convulsions when standing in line and overhearing other customers at the store or at the DMV. No wonder you furtively play mmo's and post instead - you poor fragile soul!
Shakari - fair points and I didn't realize that in Asia they already have some kind of system like this. It is true that the nature of the consumer is to want more, and for the company to always want to provide as little as they can get away with. I'm just wondering if perhaps, given outages for which we don't get time credit, compounded with the recent hike in GTC price, along with the bait-and-switch of "power of two" followed by ghost-train nerf shortly afterwards, CCP is recently making moves towards trying to get away with quite a lot. They make such strides pretty successfully in part because they have enough fans who scream "EULA!" and try to ridiucule any dissent on the forums.
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Ubermensch Purifier
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Posted - 2008.11.01 18:23:00 -
[28]
Edited by: Ubermensch Purifier on 01/11/2008 18:22:43
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Drake Draconis
Minmatar Brutor tribe
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Posted - 2008.11.01 18:44:00 -
[29]
DJ you are the most eloquent moron I've seen in a long time.
your throwing a fit over nickles and dimes.
Seriously... take a break from this game before it consumes your life without restraint.
It's going to cost you your health...and your san....never mind.
I've already lost my sanity by even responding.
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Maverick 52
Fusion Enterprises Ltd Mostly Harmless
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Posted - 2008.11.01 18:52:00 -
[30]
DJ, the flaw with your request is that EVE rarely suffers unscheduled downtimes. Your example that games such as WoW offer reimbursement fail to mention that those same games suffer more unscheduled downtimes.
So EVE goes down for a hour, you want a free hour? You've seen the numbers, that hour of your time is worth so little on a individual basis it's not worth the time to try and get it back. On the other hand, if CCP were to issue a free hour to every subscriber, that amount then adds up. This is lost profit for them, and if it is great enough it will result in less money going back into the game. Yep...less money going in, more problems, less people to fix it.
I agree that lost time should be reimbursed in an ideal world, however I don't feel that every extra minute of downtime, or the random server crash once every other month is really worth getting worked up over. Just remind yourself that CCP has staff on hand at all times to take care of the server just in case it does go down, and they get it back online as quickly as they possibly can.
Think of it this way. I have satellite TV, so when a bad snow storm comes around and knocks out my signal for the night, do I call up DirecTV and tell them I want $1 back for the lost time?
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