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Lyria Skydancer
Amarr Developmental Neogenics Amalgamated
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Posted - 2008.10.30 15:54:00 -
[31]
Originally by: lecrotta
Veterans hate the changes, take your head out of the sand and look at all the threads about how bad these chasnges are ffs are you blind????,
You base this on what? I fly with/know alot of veterans that support the nano nerf. What kind of people are you flying around with? You're one that is blind. ----------------------------------------- [Video] The Cruise |
lecrotta
lecrotta Corp
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Posted - 2008.10.30 15:56:00 -
[32]
Edited by: lecrotta on 30/10/2008 15:56:48
Originally by: Lyria Skydancer
Originally by: lecrotta
Veterans hate the changes, take your head out of the sand and look at all the threads about how bad these chasnges are ffs are you blind????,
You base this on what? I fly with/know alot of veterans that support the nano nerf. What kind of people are you flying around with? You're one that is blind.
Name dropping?...how about you post all the threads for the nerf you claim these vets have started instead, cos this thread and this forum is full of those against it.
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Lyria Skydancer
Amarr Developmental Neogenics Amalgamated
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Posted - 2008.10.30 15:59:00 -
[33]
Edited by: Lyria Skydancer on 30/10/2008 15:59:03
Originally by: lecrotta
Name dropping?...how about you post all the threads for the nerf you claim these vets have started instead, cos this thread and this forum is full of those against it.
Many reasonable vets don't visit the forums. 99% of the forums is full of trolls and morons tbph. You base your arguments on that crowd. ----------------------------------------- [Video] The Cruise |
Mag's
MASS
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Posted - 2008.10.30 16:00:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Lyria Skydancer 99% of the forums is full of trolls and morons tbph.
Hence, why you are here.
Mag's
Originally by: Avernus One of these days, the realization that MASS is no longer significant will catch up with you. |
MyOwnSling
Gallente RONA Corporation RONA Alliance
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Posted - 2008.10.30 16:03:00 -
[35]
Originally by: lecrotta Edited by: lecrotta on 30/10/2008 15:56:48
Originally by: Lyria Skydancer
Originally by: lecrotta
Veterans hate the changes, take your head out of the sand and look at all the threads about how bad these chasnges are ffs are you blind????,
You base this on what? I fly with/know alot of veterans that support the nano nerf. What kind of people are you flying around with? You're one that is blind.
Name dropping?...how about you post all the threads for the nerf you claim these vets have started instead, cos this thread and this forum is full of those against it.
Where does he claim those vets started any threads? All he said is that he knows many that support it. Has nothing to do with posting on forums. I know people who swing both ways who don't ever visit the forums. In all honesty, I don't think the forums are a good indicator of what the majority of the player base think, but because that's all CCP has to go on, that's what they seem to respond to. ------------- Stop whining.
Originally by: Puupuu dude... your face...
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MyOwnSling
Gallente RONA Corporation RONA Alliance
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Posted - 2008.10.30 16:06:00 -
[36]
Originally by: lecrotta Its the 0.0 carebears im referring to, those ppl that think a ratting fitted ship is ok to use against a a pure pvp fitted gang in their space.
Can you prove it? How do you know that somebody whining on the forums indeed falls into this category? Few will explicitly state it (though there are those whose posts would seem to imply it, sadly). ------------- Stop whining.
Originally by: Puupuu dude... your face...
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lecrotta
lecrotta Corp
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Posted - 2008.10.30 16:06:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Lyria Skydancer
Originally by: lecrotta
Name dropping?...how about you post all the threads for the nerf you claim these vets have started instead, cos this thread and this forum is full of those against it.
Many reasonable vets don't visit the forums. 99% of the forums is full of trolls and morons tbph. You base your arguments on that crowd.
Look at your posting ffs, you give nothing towards your own argument and dismiss the hundreds of ppl posting thread after thread about the almost endless problems this nerf is causing.
You have been asked to post links to the "many" threads supporting this nerf you "claim" are around....you did nothing but bleet out a weak excuse.
You were asked to give a detailed summary of roaming gang pvp on sissi and how its "better"....more excuses...
Your the moronic troll i think, but hey id be glad for you to prove me wrong.
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MyOwnSling
Gallente RONA Corporation RONA Alliance
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Posted - 2008.10.30 16:09:00 -
[38]
Edited by: MyOwnSling on 30/10/2008 16:09:39
Originally by: lecrotta You were asked to give a detailed summary of roaming gang pvp on sissi
How do you simulate this? The FFA areas aren't even close to the same conditions you find in a roaming gang, and on SISI 0.0 areas aren't occupied enough to test anything meaningfully. I would be interested in testing this, but I would like to know how you do it. ------------- Stop whining.
Originally by: Puupuu dude... your face...
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Gut Punch
The Dead Parrot Shoppe Inc.
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Posted - 2008.10.30 16:14:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Edited by: Lyria Skydancer on 30/10/2008 15:59:03
Originally by: lecrotta
Name dropping?...how about you post all the threads for the nerf you claim these vets have started instead, cos this thread and this forum is full of those against it.
Many reasonable vets don't visit the forums. 99% of the forums is full of trolls and morons tbph. You base your arguments on that crowd.
So stfu troll and go back to your "enlightened" vet buddies. Frankly I don't appreciate CCP pulling the rug out from under me. I've spent 2.5 years in the game learning the rules and setting skill goals to be successful in small gang warfare. EVE used to be about being a sandbox where some form of human pilot skill and intelligence would allow you to enjoy the game. Granted you had to bounce back from some defeats and actually analyse why you lost. However, the people CCP are listening to atm are not people who figured out that perhaps their character race had some limitations and that they needed to train for specific races and ships for specific purposes. The most recent set of changes in the devblogs, in Z's posts, and on SiSi reflect a new string of dev personel who wouldn't know the first thing about how anyone outside the major empires or the mission ***** in caldari space operates.
These changes are nothing short of burning the rule book and starting over for the vets I know. So the buddies I play with are more than willing to drop their multiple accounts each and head somewhere else to get something out of our $15 a month.
You want Hello Kitty Online in empire with no risk? You want BLOB MOAR Online in 0.0 with great POS empires? If thats what you want Lyria then enjoy... I'm way out of here.
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lecrotta
lecrotta Corp
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Posted - 2008.10.30 16:19:00 -
[40]
Edited by: lecrotta on 30/10/2008 16:22:38
Originally by: MyOwnSling
Originally by: lecrotta You were asked to give a detailed summary of roaming gang pvp on sissi
How do you simulate this? The FFA areas aren't even close to the same conditions you find in a roaming gang, and on SISI 0.0 areas aren't occupied enough to test anything meaningfully. I would be interested in testing this, but I would like to know how you do it.
Because i did it pal, after the first and second patch along with the dev chappys in local we put together gangs of 20 per side (some times 30 per side although that was max) to test all manner ship ships vs ships along with a variety of fitting styles.
We conducted our tests mostly around gates and stations as these areas are the most combat intense in eve and both sides had experienced FC's leading them. As far as results were concerned a gang of BC with a bit of logistic support pretty much owned every other form of gang (apart from RR BS and capitals for obvious reasons).
Apart from the logistics cruisers and maybe a bit of (so for un nerfed) ewar, all hacs and cruisers along with all smaller ships were pointless to fly as bonused BC could hit anything while out tanking all but BS and capitals.
Nothing has changed since the tests as i was trying out a BC vs ceptor in a gang style test yesterday and even summat as small as a 5kms ceptor orbiting a gang buddy was getting melted.
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MyOwnSling
Gallente RONA Corporation RONA Alliance
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Posted - 2008.10.30 16:23:00 -
[41]
Originally by: lecrotta
Originally by: MyOwnSling
Originally by: lecrotta You were asked to give a detailed summary of roaming gang pvp on sissi
How do you simulate this? The FFA areas aren't even close to the same conditions you find in a roaming gang, and on SISI 0.0 areas aren't occupied enough to test anything meaningfully. I would be interested in testing this, but I would like to know how you do it.
Because i did it pal, after the first and second patch along with the dev chappys in local we put together gangs of 20 per side (some times 30 per side although that was max) to test all manner ship ships vs ships along with a variety of fitting styles.
We conducted our tests mostly around gates and stations as these areas are the most combat intense in eve and both sides had experienced FC's leading them. As far as results were concerned a gang of BC with a bit of logistic support pretty much owned every other form of gang (apart from RR BS and capitals for obvious reasons).
Apart from the logistics cruisers and maybe a bit of (so for un nerfed) ewar, all hacs and cruisers along with all smaller ships were pointless to fly as bonused BC could hit anything while out tanking all but BS and capitals.
Ok, so you and a bunch of people had what sounds like a rather well-organized testing environment (obviously a good thing). How often does this happen? Are you able to keep up with the changes occuring daily on SISI? I can't seem to hit SISI at the right times to get any worthwhile testing going. ------------- Stop whining.
Originally by: Puupuu dude... your face...
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lecrotta
lecrotta Corp
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Posted - 2008.10.30 16:25:00 -
[42]
Originally by: MyOwnSling
Originally by: lecrotta
Originally by: MyOwnSling
Originally by: lecrotta You were asked to give a detailed summary of roaming gang pvp on sissi
How do you simulate this? The FFA areas aren't even close to the same conditions you find in a roaming gang, and on SISI 0.0 areas aren't occupied enough to test anything meaningfully. I would be interested in testing this, but I would like to know how you do it.
Because i did it pal, after the first and second patch along with the dev chappys in local we put together gangs of 20 per side (some times 30 per side although that was max) to test all manner ship ships vs ships along with a variety of fitting styles.
We conducted our tests mostly around gates and stations as these areas are the most combat intense in eve and both sides had experienced FC's leading them. As far as results were concerned a gang of BC with a bit of logistic support pretty much owned every other form of gang (apart from RR BS and capitals for obvious reasons).
Apart from the logistics cruisers and maybe a bit of (so for un nerfed) ewar, all hacs and cruisers along with all smaller ships were pointless to fly as bonused BC could hit anything while out tanking all but BS and capitals.
Ok, so you and a bunch of people had what sounds like a rather well-organized testing environment (obviously a good thing). How often does this happen? Are you able to keep up with the changes occuring daily on SISI? I can't seem to hit SISI at the right times to get any worthwhile testing going.
Sori did not mean to ninja edit but this:
Nothing has changed since the tests as i was trying out a BC vs ceptor in a gang style test yesterday and even summat as small as a 5kms ceptor orbiting a gang buddy was getting melted. The changes may look good to noobs and inexperienced players but in gang combat if your at 0 to one player orbiting to tackle your in the sweet spot of another and he will melt you.
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MyOwnSling
Gallente RONA Corporation RONA Alliance
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Posted - 2008.10.30 16:33:00 -
[43]
Originally by: lecrotta Sori did not mean to ninja edit but this:
Nothing has changed since the tests as i was trying out a BC vs ceptor in a gang style test yesterday and even summat as small as a 5kms ceptor orbiting a gang buddy was getting melted. The changes may look good to noobs and inexperienced players but in gang combat if your at 0 to one player orbiting to tackle your in the sweet spot of another and he will melt you just by pressing f1 now....
Yeah, in my minimal testing the ceptor went down in about 15 seconds against a larger target. So what does this mean? You can't tackle anything smaller than a BS post-nano nerf? Are small ships dead? Have you been able to test AF's yet (i.e. could they be a better heavy tackle ship than before)? ------------- Stop whining.
Originally by: Puupuu dude... your face...
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lecrotta
lecrotta Corp
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Posted - 2008.10.30 16:45:00 -
[44]
Edited by: lecrotta on 30/10/2008 16:48:45
Originally by: MyOwnSling
Originally by: lecrotta Sori did not mean to ninja edit but this:
Nothing has changed since the tests as i was trying out a BC vs ceptor in a gang style test yesterday and even summat as small as a 5kms ceptor orbiting a gang buddy was getting melted. The changes may look good to noobs and inexperienced players but in gang combat if your at 0 to one player orbiting to tackle your in the sweet spot of another and he will melt you just by pressing f1 now....
Yeah, in my minimal testing the ceptor went down in about 15 seconds against a larger target. So what does this mean? You can't tackle anything smaller than a BS post-nano nerf? Are small ships dead? Have you been able to test AF's yet (i.e. could they be a better heavy tackle ship than before)?
I did not personally test AF's as i considered that if the smallest ship in the game orbiting at top speed (thus the hardest to hit) was gonna melt anything else of the same class was gonna be even easier.
The main issue was buffer tank, small ships have no buffer so the logistics can work their magic. A BC or larger has good med to long range and enough hp so that all but a huge monster amount of alpha dps cannot break it with a couple of logistics ships pumping out rep. While plating or extending small tacklers is impracticable as it not only slows the ships but increases sig radius along with taking up slots for tackle or the speed mods themselves.
1 v 1 you can maybe get in close quick enough to gunships to survive but in gang combat you cannot get close to every ship all at the same time.....
While on TQ speed allows small ships to do exactly that (survive) and stay reasonably survivable unless tackled and that is why it produced skilled pvp, the need to tackle to kill!.
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Lyria Skydancer
Amarr Developmental Neogenics Amalgamated
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Posted - 2008.10.30 16:45:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Mag's
Originally by: Lyria Skydancer 99% of the forums is full of trolls and morons tbph.
Hence, why you are here.
No, I'm the 1%. ----------------------------------------- [Video] The Cruise |
Lyria Skydancer
Amarr Developmental Neogenics Amalgamated
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Posted - 2008.10.30 16:49:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Gut Punch
So stfu troll and go back to your "enlightened" vet buddies.
You want Hello Kitty Online in empire with no risk? You want BLOB MOAR Online in 0.0 with great POS empires? If thats what you want Lyria then enjoy... I'm way out of here.
1. It will be a pleasure owning you after patch and you being angry about it is just a bonus.
2. Why would I be in a tiny corp if I wanted blob more online? I don't think you know wth you're talking about. But so doesn't 99% of the forum people either. Who would have guessed you would say such clueless things. ----------------------------------------- [Video] The Cruise |
MyOwnSling
Gallente RONA Corporation RONA Alliance
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Posted - 2008.10.30 16:54:00 -
[47]
Originally by: lecrotta Edited by: lecrotta on 30/10/2008 16:48:45 I did not personally test AF's as i considered that if the smallest ship in the game orbiting at top speed (thus the hardest to hit) was gonna melt anything else of the same class was gonna be even easier.
The main issue was buffer tank, small ships have no buffer so the logistics can work their magic. A BC or larger has good med to long range and enough hp so that all but a huge monster amount of alpha dps cannot break it with a couple of logistics ships pumping out rep. While plating or extending small tacklers is impracticable as it not only slows the ships but increases sig radius along with taking up slots for tackle or the speed mods themselves.
1 v 1 you can maybe get in close quick enough to gunships to survive but in gang combat you cannot get close to every ship all at the same time.....
While on TQ speed allows small ships to do exactly that (survive) and stay reasonably survivable unless tackled and that is why it produced skilled pvp, the need to tackle to kill!.
I was thinking about the higher resists that an AF has. That could help a bit with the logistics issue, but I don't know how much. Have you tried an inty with the new MWD sig radius bonus? And have you tried anything aside from logistics/BC vs inty gangs? Sorry for asking so many questions but I haven't had enought time to test. ------------- Stop whining.
Originally by: Puupuu dude... your face...
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lecrotta
lecrotta Corp
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Posted - 2008.10.30 17:01:00 -
[48]
Edited by: lecrotta on 30/10/2008 17:03:36
Originally by: MyOwnSling
Originally by: lecrotta
I did not personally test AF's as i considered that if the smallest ship in the game orbiting at top speed (thus the hardest to hit) was gonna melt anything else of the same class was gonna be even easier.
The main issue was buffer tank, small ships have no buffer so the logistics can work their magic. A BC or larger has good med to long range and enough hp so that all but a huge monster amount of alpha dps cannot break it with a couple of logistics ships pumping out rep. While plating or extending small tacklers is impracticable as it not only slows the ships but increases sig radius along with taking up slots for tackle or the speed mods themselves.
1 v 1 you can maybe get in close quick enough to gunships to survive but in gang combat you cannot get close to every ship all at the same time.....
While on TQ speed allows small ships to do exactly that (survive) and stay reasonably survivable unless tackled and that is why it produced skilled pvp, the need to tackle to kill!.
I was thinking about the higher resists that an AF has. That could help a bit with the logistics issue, but I don't know how much. Have you tried an inty with the new MWD sig radius bonus? And have you tried anything aside from logistics/BC vs inty gangs? Sorry for asking so many questions but I haven't had enought time to test.
The af resists may make it be hit for a little less but its slower so it will take longer to get into range (plus lower transversal when it is in range orbiting) along with the fact that in a 10 man BC gang you may have good transversal against one or two or even 5 or 6 if they are stupid and bunched up but if 1 BC can melt a ceptor in seconds more can do it in......need i go on?.
And yes we tried loads of variations but BC gangs with a bit of logistics and ewar owned all smaller mixed race/ship gangs (hacs were a expensive joke and even at 100 isk on sissi were not worth using over BC) and only lost to BS and capital as i mentioned before.
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MyOwnSling
Gallente RONA Corporation RONA Alliance
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Posted - 2008.10.30 17:10:00 -
[49]
Edited by: MyOwnSling on 30/10/2008 17:11:15
Originally by: lecrotta Edited by: lecrotta on 30/10/2008 17:03:36
Originally by: MyOwnSling
Originally by: lecrotta
I did not personally test AF's as i considered that if the smallest ship in the game orbiting at top speed (thus the hardest to hit) was gonna melt anything else of the same class was gonna be even easier.
The main issue was buffer tank, small ships have no buffer so the logistics can work their magic. A BC or larger has good med to long range and enough hp so that all but a huge monster amount of alpha dps cannot break it with a couple of logistics ships pumping out rep. While plating or extending small tacklers is impracticable as it not only slows the ships but increases sig radius along with taking up slots for tackle or the speed mods themselves.
1 v 1 you can maybe get in close quick enough to gunships to survive but in gang combat you cannot get close to every ship all at the same time.....
While on TQ speed allows small ships to do exactly that (survive) and stay reasonably survivable unless tackled and that is why it produced skilled pvp, the need to tackle to kill!.
I was thinking about the higher resists that an AF has. That could help a bit with the logistics issue, but I don't know how much. Have you tried an inty with the new MWD sig radius bonus? And have you tried anything aside from logistics/BC vs inty gangs? Sorry for asking so many questions but I haven't had enought time to test.
The af resists may make it be hit for a little less but its slower so it will take longer to get into range (plus lower transversal when it is in range orbiting) along with the fact that in a 10 man BC gang you may have good transversal against one or two or even 5 or 6 if they are stupid and bunched up but if 1 BC can melt a ceptor in seconds more can do it in......need i go on?.
And yes we tried loads of variations but BC gangs with a bit of logistics and ewar owned all smaller mixed race/ship gangs (hacs were a expensive joke and even at 100 isk on sissi were not worth using over BC) and only lost to BS and capital as i mentioned before.
Well then what's the problem? Isn't the solution obvious? All you need to do is hot drop some carriers and you're fine. Right? Or a titan?
edit: having a sarcastic moment. I am planning on testing some of this myself soon. I hope it's not as bad as you describe. ------------- Stop whining.
Originally by: Puupuu dude... your face...
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lecrotta
lecrotta Corp
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Posted - 2008.10.30 17:13:00 -
[50]
Originally by: MyOwnSling Well then what's the problem? Isn't the solution obvious? All you need to do is hot drop some carriers and you're fine. Right? Or a titan?
edit: having a sarcastic moment. I am planning on testing some of this myself soon. I hope it's not as bad as you describe.
Read some of the many threds linked on this one or just check out the forums bud its all their to see...unfortunatly.
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LordInvisible
Gallente The CULT OF DAMNED Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
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Posted - 2008.10.30 18:56:00 -
[51]
well, there are some threads PRO- nano nerf, but not as many as anti..
Only if u look at ANTI nano thread in CSM's Assembly Hall against PRO nano thread, there is like 1570 supporting accounts and if u then look PRO nano thread, there is 790 supporters..
That at least shows that there is two thirds of accounts that bother to vote against nano nerf..
And while searching for ANTI nano threads, i wanted to put up a list of PRO nano nerf threads, but i only managed to gather 6 threads, of which one or two were locked..
And like I said: CCP decided to overhaul whole fighting system just to solve a problem, that could be solved with adding stacking penalties to polycarb rigs and speed implants..
That would be even better solution for those nano fa*gs that specced in nanoing, then all this **** CCP is prolly putting up atm.. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- We are recruting: Recruitment |
LordInvisible
Gallente The CULT OF DAMNED Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
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Posted - 2008.10.30 18:57:00 -
[52]
Ohh, and yes, i am for nerfing nanos..Just not nerfing whole system of fighting along with it..
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- We are recruting: Recruitment |
lecrotta
lecrotta Corp
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Posted - 2008.10.30 19:00:00 -
[53]
Edited by: lecrotta on 30/10/2008 19:01:25
Originally by: LordInvisible
And like I said: CCP decided to overhaul whole fighting system just to solve a problem, that could be solved with adding stacking penalties to polycarb rigs and speed implants..
If they had just nerfed speed alone caldari and amaar would be way over powered, as it is everybody apart from BC blobbers is gonna suffer. High speed or nano if you prefer is essential for cruisers and smaller to be worth flying in gang pvp its that simple really.
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LordInvisible
Gallente The CULT OF DAMNED Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
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Posted - 2008.10.31 11:03:00 -
[54]
maybe yes, but atm they gonna make useless like 2 races:D -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- We are recruting: Recruitment |
sdthujfg
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Posted - 2008.10.31 16:50:00 -
[55]
Originally by: LordInvisible maybe yes, but atm they gonna make useless like 2 races:D
That's what you get for being a FOTM chaser. Maybe you learned a lesson now.
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lebrata
Hedion University
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Posted - 2008.10.31 19:18:00 -
[56]
Originally by: sdthujfg
Originally by: LordInvisible maybe yes, but atm they gonna make useless like 2 races:D
That's what you get for being a FOTM chaser. Maybe you learned a lesson now.
FOTM?.....they are changing the way combat in the entire game works are you blind and daft or just a troll.
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Rexthor Hammerfists
Rage of Inferno
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Posted - 2008.10.31 19:21:00 -
[57]
Cute how worked up some ppl get when their toys get Balanced -
Boosters and PirateProfessions
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Murina
The Scope
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Posted - 2008.10.31 19:39:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Rexthor Hammerfists Cute how worked up some ppl get when their toys get Balanced
Its the game itself that is the toy bud, but i suppose that now virtually every ship class apart from a select few totally suck you could consider that "balancing" after a fashon. All they need to do is screw over amaar tracking to "balance" it to be as crap as the rest of the races in eve weapon systems and that will be it.
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Allen Ramses
Caldari Typo Corp
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Posted - 2008.11.01 00:13:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Rexthor Hammerfists Cute how worked up some ppl get when their toys get Balanced
It's not that peoples' toys got balanced, it's how peoples' toys got balanced. ____________________ Pimped out Raven to run level 4 missions quickly: 210 Mil ISK. Realizing your 120 Mil ISK Drake gets the job done faster: Priceless. |
Koyama Ise
Caldari Equestrian Knight Order of Lolicon
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Posted - 2008.11.01 04:29:00 -
[60]
Edited by: Koyama Ise on 01/11/2008 04:29:33
Originally by: Rexthor Hammerfists Cute how worked up some ppl get when their toys get "balanced"
Fixed.
If I tie a feather to one of your arms and a car to the other would you say you're balanced? No. If the system was balanced it means the speed tanking is still viable. Balance would have been something less broad spectrum, like fixing boni on polycarbs so it's not the same number as the structure hp penalty on nanofibres and maybe reducing base speed of certain ships. Not just hitting everything at once; base speeds of subcaps, speed rig stacking, mass reduction modules/rigs to speed increase and agility increase, mwd speeds, mass values, drug boosts, gang mods, gang skills, possibly some more that I can't think of. It'd be like saying medium blasters are overpowered and nerfing Blasters, Projectiles and Lasers. ------ FIX THE BLOODY OVERVIEW ALREADY! SPEED NERF! RUN FOR THE HILLS! |
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