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Kanmahr
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Posted - 2008.10.30 12:52:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Kanmahr on 30/10/2008 12:53:38 For running missions (lvl2 for now) solo, would you recommend missiles or railguns, if you had a suitable ship for each?
I've currently got a railgun heavy setup which is great to get rats from a distance. But I was wondering if an alternative setup with missiles, on a missile boat, might be better?
Cheers
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Ghengis Tia
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Posted - 2008.10.30 13:35:00 -
[2]
The Raven hulled ships are the kings of Level IV's, the unit of measure being the ease of missiles,shield tanking, and swift mission completion.
Level II's should not be much different, with a Caracal or other missile boat being mission efficient.
Gunnery skills vs Missile skills, as you train up both you can pick yer poison. I like both my arty and missile ships. Complemented with drones, makes life easy.
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Juyfne
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Posted - 2008.10.30 13:43:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Juyfne on 30/10/2008 13:44:19 Depends on your skills. If your skills are heavy in gunnery already, might as well stick with them and keep training them up. My mission toon is heavily trained on missiles so I obviously use those for weapons.
You have to decide for yourself what you like better for your style of play. To me, missiles are just easier to use. 4 types, one for each damage type to match your mission as opposed to guns which have like 9 type of ammo that cover various damage types, ranges, damage multipliers, etc...
To each is own I guess.
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Kanmahr
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Posted - 2008.10.30 14:11:00 -
[4]
The question was asked irrespective of what skills a person has trained or what particular ship they are flying. Assuming all things equal, is a missile based setup more suitable for solo mission runs than a railgun one or vice versa?
I suppose there's probably not much in it, but given the different attributes between the two, there should be some advantage to using one over the other? Or not?
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Evilan Altana
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Posted - 2008.10.30 15:40:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Evilan Altana on 30/10/2008 15:40:32 With missles you have dps you can count on, a carcal with assault launchers handles 2s easily. You could also switch to heavy missles if should so prefer more range.
Also selectable damage type, you can always choose the correct type of damage to deal based on what you are fighting.
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FT Diomedes
Gallente Ductus Exemplo
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Posted - 2008.10.30 15:59:00 -
[6]
It depends on whether you have good gunnery skills. Missiles are pretty good even with low skills, guns are not. Once you get the skills, and learn how to really use the ships, it doesn't matter a great deal. Missiles are certainly more user friendly. ------------
Improvize. Adapt. Overcome.
Selling Gallente, Minmatar and SoE faction goodies (including Virtue implants).
I am looking for a good 0.0 corp/alliance. Convo if interested. |
Zanzaa
Amarr
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Posted - 2008.10.30 16:23:00 -
[7]
Yeah i'd definately go with missiles if you're new or have low sp.
Guns are good if you have a good set of skills to back it up. I graduated from Missiles to guns and never looked back. =============================== /me points at Mission runners. /me laughs. /me points. |
Khavid Kharver
Amarr
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Posted - 2008.10.30 17:00:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Khavid Kharver on 30/10/2008 16:59:58 For missions, its simple. Missiles give you a much more constant dps AND you can select them for specific damage types (there are plenty of sources for info on what rats and how best to damage them, use them, even for level 2s).
With railguns (or any hybrid turrets for that matter), its harder to hit (more factors come into play in determing damage) and the damage type is fixed. For PVE they just aren't as good as missiles.
Other factors come into play in PvP, but missiles are superior to hybrid turrets (espeically for identical levels of sp devoted to the skills) in PvE.
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Zanzaa
Amarr
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Posted - 2008.10.30 17:10:00 -
[9]
Don't buy into the missiles are better no matter what mantra.
I've been running a turret boat in lv4's for the past few weeks and find the speed to be more than satisfactory. =============================== /me points at Mission runners. /me laughs. /me points. |
Artemis Rose
Varion Galactic Accord Corporate Enterprise Syndicate
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Posted - 2008.10.31 04:29:00 -
[10]
Long long time ago, I had more a more enjoyable experience running lvl 2s in a Moa. Somehow I got it killed and used a Caracal and it was much easier. Its easier and faster in the missile ships, but its more boring. Its up to you.
*** Currently Playing: Trolls from Outer Space Current Equipment: VISAcard chain mail, +2 Amulet of Epic Whine, Self Banstick +2 WTB: +666 E-peen killboard stats |
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MrMephistopheles
Navy of Xoc
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Posted - 2008.10.31 05:33:00 -
[11]
Though personally I have 11mil SP in gunnery, therefore i'm going to stick with turrets, I'd highly recommend missiles.
Roughly: Kestrel (level 1's) Caracal (level 2's) Drake (level 3's) Raven (level 4's)
Member of the REDNECK LUFTWAFFE |
vanBuskirk
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.10.31 09:30:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Evilan Altana Edited by: Evilan Altana on 30/10/2008 15:40:32 With missles you have dps you can count on, a carcal with assault launchers handles 2s easily. You could also switch to heavy missles if should so prefer more range.
Also selectable damage type, you can always choose the correct type of damage to deal based on what you are fighting.
A caracal with assault launchers and good skills can reach out to 50km or so, and that's enough for just about any level 2.
One trick I've found for the very few that have ships further away; fire one missile (knowing you're out of range) at one of the group that's too far away. They'll come and be killed like good little rats.
---------------------------------------------- "Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent."
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Nagasumi
Caldari Navy Runners
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Posted - 2008.10.31 09:39:00 -
[13]
Well if you want ease and instan pwn id go turrets more skill req but does missions like no other.
Missiles are only popular because u can fly a t2 fitted raven and do lvl4's after 2 months of training.
but with guns and some drone skills u can do misions ALOT faster then a raven i can tell you and with good tracking skills you insta pop the frigs before they even come near you
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Kanmahr
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Posted - 2008.10.31 10:12:00 -
[14]
Thanks all, good replies. I've currently got most SP in gunnery, as I am flying a turret fitted Moa (with two missle launchers and drones). I'm finding it quite enjoyable and only occassionally struggle soloing missions (lvl2 with quality 18 gets trickier - but that could be my setup)
I suppose I might stick with the turrets for now and concentrate on missiles later on, once I have my current skill plan complete.
Interesting mix of opinions though....
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FT Diomedes
Gallente Ductus Exemplo
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Posted - 2008.10.31 11:26:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Kanmahr Thanks all, good replies. I've currently got most SP in gunnery, as I am flying a turret fitted Moa (with two missle launchers and drones). I'm finding it quite enjoyable and only occassionally struggle soloing missions (lvl2 with quality 18 gets trickier - but that could be my setup)
I suppose I might stick with the turrets for now and concentrate on missiles later on, once I have my current skill plan complete.
Interesting mix of opinions though....
Just FYI, a level 2 mission is the same regardless of the agent's quality. Feel free to post your setup if you are having any trouble. There are plenty of folks happy to help. ------------
Improvize. Adapt. Overcome.
Selling Gallente, Minmatar and SoE faction goodies (including Virtue implants).
I am looking for a good 0.0 corp/alliance. Convo if interested. |
Ghengis Tia
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Posted - 2008.10.31 14:24:00 -
[16]
Hybrid ammo is a mix of Kinetic and Thermal. Period. No explosive or em damage. Missiles are available in all damage types, and if you have more than one launcher, you can play with combinations of damage types.
Projectile weapons (artillery and autocannons) also have the ability to use ammo with all four damage types. Your gunnery skills will transfer easily.
There are drawbacks to projectile weapons, a forum search will get you to threads to research this.
Most likely, you eventually end up training missiles and drones as you progress to more powerful and versatile ships.
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Nagasumi
Caldari Navy Runners
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Posted - 2008.10.31 15:03:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Ghengis Tia Hybrid ammo is a mix of Kinetic and Thermal. Period. No explosive or em damage. Missiles are available in all damage types, and if you have more than one launcher, you can play with combinations of damage types.
Projectile weapons (artillery and autocannons) also have the ability to use ammo with all four damage types. Your gunnery skills will transfer easily.
There are drawbacks to projectile weapons, a forum search will get you to threads to research this.
Most likely, you eventually end up training missiles and drones as you progress to more powerful and versatile ships.
Sounds fair but one important thing i can dish outfar more alpgha with guns and i dont have any delay in dmg output.
ive gotten wrecking hits for over 3000 in dmg with a kronos with gallente mag stabs and with near perfect gunnery skills.
nothing like it when u pop a Bs when your friends first volley of missiles hit his bs
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Ghengis Tia
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Posted - 2008.10.31 15:42:00 -
[18]
Edited by: Ghengis Tia on 31/10/2008 15:43:02
Originally by: Nagasumi
Originally by: Ghengis Tia Hybrid ammo is a mix of Kinetic and Thermal. Period. No explosive or em damage. Missiles are available in all damage types, and if you have more than one launcher, you can play with combinations of damage types.
Projectile weapons (artillery and autocannons) also have the ability to use ammo with all four damage types. Your gunnery skills will transfer easily.
There are drawbacks to projectile weapons, a forum search will get you to threads to research this.
Most likely, you eventually end up training missiles and drones as you progress to more powerful and versatile ships.
Sounds fair but one important thing i can dish outfar more alpgha with guns and i dont have any delay in dmg output.
ive gotten wrecking hits for over 3000 in dmg with a kronos with gallente mag stabs and with near perfect gunnery skills.
nothing like it when u pop a Bs when your friends first volley of missiles hit his bs
The OP was talking Level 2 missions, he may be a bit of a distance away from being able to fly a Kronos, arguably the best Marauder in the game....
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Rhatar Khurin
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.10.31 19:32:00 -
[19]
I personally prefer the Moa to the caracal in level 2 missions. The tank on the caracal get get a bit strained in some of the more hair-raising missions and as you've said you have mainly missile skills you would do good dps.
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Lyvanna Kitaen
Minmatar Noonday Sun Corp
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Posted - 2008.11.01 00:34:00 -
[20]
Some advantages to missles:
1) They always hit as long as you're in range and do full damage out to their maximum range (no falloff).
2) You can pick the exact damage type and tailor it to targets.
3) They are immune to tracking disruption (good for killing sansha)
4) They are capless (along with projectile turrets), so your tank can run longer and you can still shoot without cap.
5) You don't generally have to change ammo when your target's range changes.
6) No tracking issues. You don't have to worry about traversal etc.
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Tiirae
The New Era HUZZAH FEDERATION
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Posted - 2008.11.01 02:34:00 -
[21]
To directly answer the actual question: missiles. there is no argument. And it's not cos you can get into a raven quicker; with equal SP in gunnery or missiles, missiles will always let you finish missions quicker and with less clicks.
Furthermore, if you are caldari you may as well face up to the fact that missiles are going to figure heavily in your future. May as well start cranking up those missile skills now.
I have gall BS V and Large hybrid turret V, along with great gunnery skills. I've only got half the SP in missiles but I'll still take a raven out for missions every time.
It is pretty boring, though.
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VJ Maverick
Splinter Cell Alfa
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Posted - 2008.11.01 02:53:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Lyvanna Kitaen Some advantages to missles:
1) They always hit as long as you're in range and do full damage out to their maximum range (no falloff).
This is not true. Unless you are running L4's with a Rocket Raven, you will always have damage mitigation due to signature radius and velocity of your target. This will become even more of an issue with the upcoming changes to missile damage mechanics.
Having said that, if I want to run a mission while reading a book or watching a movie, I use a Cruise Raven. If I actually want to play the game and have fun blowing stuff up, I use my Arty Mael. With my skills and missioning style, I have not noticed a significant difference in the overall efficiency of the two platforms but I will say that my Maelstrom is infinitely more fun to mission in, as much fun as one can have grinding missions that is.
-------- Telling your girlfriend that you play EvE is like telling her about your herpes. Timing is everything. |
Harrent
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.11.01 05:14:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Kanmahr Edited by: Kanmahr on 30/10/2008 12:53:38 For running missions (lvl2 for now) solo, would you recommend missiles or railguns, if you had a suitable ship for each?
I've currently got a railgun heavy setup which is great to get rats from a distance. But I was wondering if an alternative setup with missiles, on a missile boat, might be better?
Cheers
Lets look at some key factors...
Argument: ---- Railguns = 2 dmg types ONLY (Kin / Therm)
Missles = ALL dmg types ---- Win: Missles
Argument: ---- Railguns = Do DPS immediately
Missles = Take a long time to hit at over 50Km ---- Win: Railguns
Argument: ---- Railguns = Take a lot of capacitor (Neuts / Nos = no no)
Missles = are cap-free use ---- Win: Missles
Argument: ---- Railguns = Cannot be defended against and therefore, do (theoretically) more dmg then missles.
Missles = Are effected by Defender missles ---- Win: Railguns
Argument: ---- Railguns = Can be trained for in sequence (can train for Large and encompass Sm / M guns in process)
Missles = have to be individually trained (Cruise, heavy, torps, rockets... etc.) ---- Win: Railguns
Argument: ---- Railguns = Can be used in other races freely
Missles = Are mainly limited to Caldari-related use ---- Win: Railguns
In the end, its your choice. I personally like missles because all you have to do is fire and forget. Soon i will invest heavily in gunnery, which i think is a more advanced type of weapon.
I'd say for a lower skilled character, missles are a good choice. If your looking for something to invest across the board, go Gunnery as it transfers more readily to other Races.
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Semper Fi |
Norwood Franskly
Minmatar Fleet of the Damned Dark Trinity Alliance
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Posted - 2008.11.01 12:24:00 -
[24]
Originally by: VJ Maverick
Having said that, if I want to run a mission while reading a book or watching a movie, I use a Cruise Raven. If I actually want to play the game and have fun blowing stuff up, I use my Arty Mael. With my skills and missioning style, I have not noticed a significant difference in the overall efficiency of the two platforms but I will say that my Maelstrom is infinitely more fun to mission in, as much fun as one can have grinding missions that is.
Hmm I don't really know about this I think missiles are more efficient. Because you don't waste time trying to match traversals, getting into optimal range or having to worry about tracking when flying a missile ship.
I too fly a Maelstrom, my standard fit is 8 1400mm II's and 3 Gyro II's the damage it does is immense. I can pop cruisers and frigates in 1 volley from 70km away. Thats all well and good but on the missions where you get swarmed I have a lot of trouble hitting stuff, Angel missions in particular suck as the BS's are fast and get in under 10km making them quite hard to hit, the maelstom is so slow as well that even using AB it is difficult to keep the ships at range, you end up having to sacrifice either tank or cap regen to fit Tracking enhancers/tracking computers.
On the other hand I have corp mates, with a lot less skill points then me, who can do some of these swarm types of missions in about half the time it takes me using bog standard Raven fits with T1 Cruise launchers. Missiles have a huge advantage over guns in PVE because they always hit and tracking is not an issue, you can fly a raven into the mission sit still and kill everything (or for most efficency, fly straight to the next acceleration gate) no hassles, which absolutely won't work in a turret fit ship.
Even on non swarm missions where the artillery can take advantage of range and extra damage missiles will still to quite an adequate job. I find the shear amount of micromanagement I have to do in a Maelstrom kills any of the fun I would get out of running missions. I'm counting down the days till I can afford a Vargur and I can take advantage of it's epic falloff bonus to fit Autocannons.
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Malleer
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Posted - 2008.11.01 13:36:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Nagasumi
Sounds fair but one important thing i can dish outfar more alpgha with guns and i dont have any delay in dmg output.
ive gotten wrecking hits for over 3000 in dmg with a kronos with gallente mag stabs and with near perfect gunnery skills.
nothing like it when u pop a Bs when your friends first volley of missiles hit his bs
Giving that I have chars flying both a torp golem and a rail domi with t2 sentries and near perfect gunnery skills, I would like to call BS on your 'facts', unless you are comparing your kronos to a cruise-raven/ golem / cnr. A Torp-golem will outalpha you at short range and longe range, vs rail or blaster, and out-dps you at all ranges up to 60km. That is not taking into consideration the fact that with the golem you will be able to tailor your dps to the rats. Most frigs approaching will pop to 1 salvo of torp now and after the coming missile changes (tested on sisi), and close range t2 light or medium drones will take care of those that goes into orbit. @ the op: If you only wanna PVE, go missiles always for maximum efficiency with all factions. If you wanna be do both pvp and pve, go for gunnery, although it will be a painfull pve path to walk once you start hitting lvl 3's and up. It take much longer to get to the point where guns are anything but painfull. I would suggest getting at least to a t2 heavy launcher drake for missions before seriously going into gunnery.
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Doc Mexallon
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Posted - 2008.11.01 18:08:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Harrent
Argument: ---- Railguns = Can be trained for in sequence (can train for Large and encompass Sm / M guns in process)
Missles = have to be individually trained (Cruise, heavy, torps, rockets... etc.) ---- Win: Railguns
I think this works in favour of missiles. It's not that you can train for large and encompass small and medium.. you have no choice - they MUST be trained in sequence, while missiles give you the flexibility to train the parts you want. Even if all you want is to fly a Rokh you're forced to train up some small and medium gunnery skills, while a Raven pilot doesn't ever need to train Heavy Missiles or Standard Missiles. It's not so bad with T1, but when you move to T2, it gets horrible. You can train T2 Cruise with just Missile Operation V, but for T2 Large Rails you'll need far more than Gunnery V. You'll need Small Hybrid V, Small Rail Spec IV, Med Hybrid V and Med Rail Spec IV on top of Large Rail V. That's a lot of time and SP investment in smaller-sized T2 guns which you may never want to use. The Win for this category is, in my opinon, Missiles.
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VJ Maverick
Splinter Cell Alfa
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Posted - 2008.11.01 18:49:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Norwood Franskly
Originally by: VJ Maverick
Having said that, if I want to run a mission while reading a book or watching a movie, I use a Cruise Raven. If I actually want to play the game and have fun blowing stuff up, I use my Arty Mael. With my skills and missioning style, I have not noticed a significant difference in the overall efficiency of the two platforms but I will say that my Maelstrom is infinitely more fun to mission in, as much fun as one can have grinding missions that is.
Hmm I don't really know about this I think missiles are more efficient. Because you don't waste time trying to match traversals, getting into optimal range or having to worry about tracking when flying a missile ship.
I too fly a Maelstrom, my standard fit is 8 1400mm II's and 3 Gyro II's the damage it does is immense. I can pop cruisers and frigates in 1 volley from 70km away. Thats all well and good but on the missions where you get swarmed I have a lot of trouble hitting stuff, Angel missions in particular suck as the BS's are fast and get in under 10km making them quite hard to hit, the maelstom is so slow as well that even using AB it is difficult to keep the ships at range, you end up having to sacrifice either tank or cap regen to fit Tracking enhancers/tracking computers.
On the other hand I have corp mates, with a lot less skill points then me, who can do some of these swarm types of missions in about half the time it takes me using bog standard Raven fits with T1 Cruise launchers. Missiles have a huge advantage over guns in PVE because they always hit and tracking is not an issue, you can fly a raven into the mission sit still and kill everything (or for most efficency, fly straight to the next acceleration gate) no hassles, which absolutely won't work in a turret fit ship.
Even on non swarm missions where the artillery can take advantage of range and extra damage missiles will still to quite an adequate job. I find the shear amount of micromanagement I have to do in a Maelstrom kills any of the fun I would get out of running missions. I'm counting down the days till I can afford a Vargur and I can take advantage of it's epic falloff bonus to fit Autocannons.
Maybe our skills and fitting are different but I have no trouble outrunning swarms in my Maelstrom with an AB and 95% of my missions are against Angels. I also honestly don't find myself constantly preoccupied with tracking or transversal. I just get into range and start popping things out of the sky. Rapidly. Yes, I do fit a tracking computer but I would not call it "sacrificing" my tank since the ship is so easily overtankable already. Also, I don't know what you mean by "sacrificing" cap regen but if you feel the need to fit cap injectors or cap batteries in your mids in a PVE Maelstrom, you are either doing something very wrong or you need train more.
-------- Telling your girlfriend that you play EvE is like telling her about your herpes. Timing is everything. |
Norwood Franskly
Minmatar Fleet of the Damned Dark Trinity Alliance
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Posted - 2008.11.02 05:15:00 -
[28]
Originally by: VJ Maverick
Maybe our skills and fitting are different but I have no trouble outrunning swarms in my Maelstrom with an AB and 95% of my missions are against Angels. I also honestly don't find myself constantly preoccupied with tracking or transversal. I just get into range and start popping things out of the sky. Rapidly. Yes, I do fit a tracking computer but I would not call it "sacrificing" my tank since the ship is so easily overtankable already. Also, I don't know what you mean by "sacrificing" cap regen but if you feel the need to fit cap injectors or cap batteries in your mids in a PVE Maelstrom, you are either doing something very wrong or you need train more.
I fit 2 cap flux coils in the low slots, for angel missions I get rid of those to fit tracking enhancers which greatly cut down on how long the booster will run. My mid slots are XL shield booster, Boost amp, 3 hardners and an AB.
Even with 2 tracking enhancers I have trouble hitting ships under 10km of me, the missions are do able I'm not arguing about that just much less hassle to fly a missile ship. I have a little over 5 Million skill points in gunnery.
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Ghengis Tia
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Posted - 2008.11.03 16:18:00 -
[29]
1400's are great if: Transversal is below 60-70 m/s. I fly either directly at or directly away from the target.
My drones had sure better take care of frigs that orbit and the occasional close cruiser, as using 1400's are like trying to hit a mosquito with a rifle.
I use my Mael as an occasional break from my CNR just for the sheer pleasure that arty can bring.
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VJ Maverick
Splinter Cell Alfa
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Posted - 2008.11.03 18:44:00 -
[30]
Edited by: VJ Maverick on 03/11/2008 18:46:45
Originally by: Norwood Franskly
Originally by: VJ Maverick
Maybe our skills and fitting are different but I have no trouble outrunning swarms in my Maelstrom with an AB and 95% of my missions are against Angels. I also honestly don't find myself constantly preoccupied with tracking or transversal. I just get into range and start popping things out of the sky. Rapidly. Yes, I do fit a tracking computer but I would not call it "sacrificing" my tank since the ship is so easily overtankable already. Also, I don't know what you mean by "sacrificing" cap regen but if you feel the need to fit cap injectors or cap batteries in your mids in a PVE Maelstrom, you are either doing something very wrong or you need train more.
I fit 2 cap flux coils in the low slots, for angel missions I get rid of those to fit tracking enhancers which greatly cut down on how long the booster will run. My mid slots are XL shield booster, Boost amp, 3 hardners and an AB.
Even with 2 tracking enhancers I have trouble hitting ships under 10km of me, the missions are do able I'm not arguing about that just much less hassle to fly a missile ship. I have a little over 5 Million skill points in gunnery.
Flux coils? Why? Fit a PDU and CCC's and call it a day.
2 Tracking enhancers? Why? If you check the stats, you will notice that they do virtually nothing for your tracking - they boost your optimal range a whole lot more.
My mids are: AB, 3 shield hardeners, Tracking comp (tracking script), XL booster. That's right, no amp. I found that putting an amp on this ship is absolute overtank with my skills and missioning style.
Low: 3 gyros, Tracking enhancer, PDU
As far as tracking things under 10km, why would you ever get that close? I usually manage to obliterate everything before it has a chance to get under 40km's. On the rare few missions that land you right in the middle of a spawn, my AB lets me get out of trouble and into firing position long before tanking becomes a concern. I can reliably hit NPC battleships at 10-12k and above. Scrambling/webbing frigates are quickly dispatched with light or medium drones. You're making this a lot harder than it is. My gunnery skills are actually slightly worse than yours, but my tanking, navigation, and cap skills are pretty much maxed out. Perhaps that's the edge you need to handle this ship like I do. I admit that a Raven is easier and less pilot intensive. I never denied that. But with good skills, an Arty Maelstrom will run missions just as fast while delivering a lot more grins.
-------- Telling your girlfriend that you play EvE is like telling her about your herpes. Timing is everything. |
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