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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 100 post(s) |
Z2ZzzzZ2Z
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2012.04.03 20:34:00 -
[1] - Quote
RE: "While there were reports of false positives related to this event, thus far every single valid "false" positive we've investigated was tagged because they had actually done something wrong, in most cases purchasing an account illegally or enabling RMT sellers via providing them with "loans"." -team security - now with 100% more anti-rmt dev blog.
i heard early on that people who did reimbursements for alliances ( ie: u lose a ship in pvp, post the kill mail and the alliance pays you for that ship) recieved punishement as well. can you confirm this? if so that would be a huge problem. its not our job to figure out who trades illegallly; its urs ccp |
Z2ZzzzZ2Z
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2012.04.03 20:41:00 -
[2] - Quote
CCP Sreegs wrote:Z2ZzzzZ2Z wrote:RE: "While there were reports of false positives related to this event, thus far every single valid "false" positive we've investigated was tagged because they had actually done something wrong, in most cases purchasing an account illegally or enabling RMT sellers via providing them with "loans"." -team security - now with 100% more anti-rmt dev blog.
i heard early on that people who did reimbursements for alliances ( ie: u lose a ship in pvp, post the kill mail and the alliance pays you for that ship) recieved punishement as well. can you confirm this? if so that would be a huge problem. its not our job to figure out who trades illegallly; its urs ccp I won't comment on individual cases except to point to my earlier statement and attest to its accuracy.
i didn't ask for an individual cases...u said "loan money" ...if some1 is doing reimbursements out of corp wallet to an effected account would that cause issues? |
Z2ZzzzZ2Z
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
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Posted - 2012.04.03 20:53:00 -
[3] - Quote
re:Vaerah Vahrokha
exactly my point. i'm sorry ccp, i'm all for catching those cheaters but you need to be more clear. this game means a great deal to some of us...many of us...because of the time we spend. we can't effectively play the game if we don't know the rules. effectively you'd shut a lot of useful people out of the game with your knee jerk reaction. |
Z2ZzzzZ2Z
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2012.04.03 20:58:00 -
[4] - Quote
CCP Sreegs wrote:Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:I am concerned about the "enabling RMT sellers via providing them with 'loans' thing.
I make hundreds of millions a month and more by loaning to people, how do I know they are not RMTers?
Those who are not stupid are not going to show as one.
One year ago I held collateral for a guy who in turn had stuff given by a RMTer. This has caused me incredibly absurd issues for weeks to no end and all what CCP did to me when I petitioned, was a grand STFU - our logs show nothing.
Are we going to see people like Chribba (he does my same "EvE job") being banned and purple letter flagged because they unknowingly dealt with somebody related to RMT?
Second thing, who is going to be so stupid to mine (and ice mining more so) even now that it's supposed to become profitable?
It's a dull mechanic that is completely identical to botting even when done legitimately. It'll be just too risky, there's no way to detect a bot vs a real miner sitting for 18 minutes doing nothing, then unloading, warping back to the same bookmark and mining again.
Or there might be ways to discern them but CCP does not know them, as I have seen banned people who I chatted all the time with while they were mining, while in the same system and sitting next to each other.
As I posted many times, it's very cool you finally started hitting botters, RMTers and cheaters but there ARE false positives (which you dismissed) and they have no way whatsoever to prove they were not cheating.
Edit: and no the "we are not the customer service department" is not a valid excuse. You HAVE to have functional backend to sustain your bannings else we'll just get an even worse customer service than we have now, where petitions can sit there for weeks. You're wrong. We can move on.
wow...nice answer. sounds to me like some1 with a legit concern...in fact it sounds like the same concern i have. you'll forgive the /b/ if we don't just passively accept that ccp will take care of it... because ccp doesn't. your customer service/customer care is the issue here. i'm a customer with a bunch of accounts. none of which have been affected by this in any way. nor do i want them to be affected. Vaerah Vahrokha's question is a legit one. your refusal to properly answer, and answer with such ( i hate to say such tone but u basicly told them to "shut up" and me as well) shows just that deficiency |
Z2ZzzzZ2Z
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
1
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Posted - 2012.04.04 00:00:00 -
[5] - Quote
CCP Sreegs wrote:Ganthrithor wrote:You can't seriously expect people to KNOW whether or not someone is involved in RMT in a game full of anonymous sociopaths.
Just cyan. I don't disagree. We also don't support loan systems. This is why if I'm correct you have a subforum as you stated for loans and the punishment for defaulting on said loan is player justice not an in-game action from CCP. We didn't design a loan system. Maybe it's something we should do, maybe not, the point is that yourself and others are making a big to-do about A) Something that we haven't had to do anything about yet because nobody's been snagged wrongly to date B) Something that is a player-run mechanic. I can't provide validation around something we didn't create.
i just want to know about the loan thing.... that troubles me.
will bans be implemented for some1 who loans money to some1 who is a RMT or if the isk is just gone. isk gone i'm fine with, account actions of any kind....not so much. then the "knowing" part comes in.... you are putting the cart before the horse ... so to speak. you never answered my original question which was this exactly. again... i'm not looking to get around the rules but you never even made it clear. loans happen.... its part of any game, supported or not. eve is supposed to be a sand box. so now i can't make loans cause its not in the game structure? of course not. this is ridiculous. so again
-tldr version-
Can an account get banned for making a loan to an account involved in RMT, knowningly or not? the loaned iskies lost is a risk of playing the game... but are there other actions beyond that?
- /tldr-
answer those 2 questions and 90% of the crap u have been getting will go away. from what i can see ccp did well on this...except for the transparency part....not about how the individuals are caught (that would be plain stupid). but definitively the rules of what is allowed (hypothetical or not... the elusiveness seems to be because nobody knows exactly what is going on) as well as the punishments need to be known. that's just a huge DUH |
Z2ZzzzZ2Z
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
1
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Posted - 2012.04.04 00:04:00 -
[6] - Quote
Woo Glin wrote:What about taking the isk that is on banned accounts or removed due to botting and using it to reimburse people who where scammed? I was promised a spot in Pandemic Legion if I paid a fee of 500M and now I barely have enough to replace my scythe and can't mine because of an afk cloacker which is a different issue but it basically keeps me from enjoying the game.
best troll ever or... go back to wow idiot |
Z2ZzzzZ2Z
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
1
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Posted - 2012.04.04 00:31:00 -
[7] - Quote
[quote=CCP Sreegs
We do not nor will we ever secure a loan. From our perspective if you make a loan you may as well be giving it away regardless of whether the guy's an rmter or not
If the guy's an RMTer you do run a slight risk of being flagged but it's a discussion we'd have to have when all the pieces came together.
In other words "loan" can mean a lot of things and I can't judge a case that hasn't happened as I've been saying. The case itself would be judged on its own merits and likely no two would be the same. You will NOT get a blanket answer from me on this question other than "We do not secure loans ever".[/quote
as i said. i don't care about the isk. again; risk you take. anybody that expects loans secured or reimbursed is .... well like that goon earlier. belong playing something simpler...like farmville...that caters to their particular mindset.
the slight risk sounds innocuous and i understand your hesitance to commit to anything but (maybe not here) this needs to be further elaborated on. slight risk? so if my buddy who played in my alliance for years goes out and buys a couple bill from a RMT and gets caught. but not before i borrow isk from him...am i in trouble? i still owe a buddy almost a bill from...i dunno a month ago when an account needed a gtc. this stuff happens all the time
"i need a ship but i'm broke "here is isk go get a ship pay me back when you can [person you have known for a while]
ALL THE TIME
i do it when i have money and my friends do it when they do....help each out. that's what we do.
my point is that ( AGAIN!!!! ) ccp seems to have jumped the gun....gone off half cocked...prematurely....yeah anyways.. they didn't fully consider the ramifacations of their actions. even if its not something that i will get in trouble for, its something that i worry about. given ccp's track record of "our logs are useless and show about as much mormon ****" just makes me even more uneasy.
i need more than what has been given. i consider myself a citizen of new eden (without going all rp). a member of the community. i have been since 2003. i expect to know the rules of the society in which i chose to participate. i know the laws in my own country better than most lawyers...or try to... best way to stay out of trouble is to know what will get you into it. so please. you don't seem to admit that there is anything even wrong with how this is handled. that is almost as troubling.
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Z2ZzzzZ2Z
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
1
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Posted - 2012.04.04 00:56:00 -
[8] - Quote
CCP Sreegs wrote:I'm going to bed because it's almost 1am. I'll pick this up tomorrow and probably follow it for another day or so before I moonwalk off into the sunset.
i claim this emo quit |
Z2ZzzzZ2Z
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
1
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Posted - 2012.04.04 02:11:00 -
[9] - Quote
GM Nythanos, can you comment on my post #325. i feel like i was sorta left hanging. not trying to be difficult but my issues remain. please clarify this for the community. |
Z2ZzzzZ2Z
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
3
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Posted - 2012.04.04 12:04:00 -
[10] - Quote
i'm still waiting to see the response for my post, number 325, in this thread. i'm not trying to nit-pick but i don't see why the rules/punishments not being clearly outlined bothers so few. i don't do things against the rules but if isk is loaned there is a 'slight risk' of action taken against the lender. again, isk being not returned is acceptable ... in fact kind of a duh...
will isk that has been loaned and paid back be still stripped?
will the lender's account ever be banned for a loan or are you looking to go after people with a repeated history?
if i have to worry about how i play this game in regards actions that are 100% legal in game actions(loaning a buddy money... unless the sandbox is closed....) or even starting a business doing it then it makes me not want to play.
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