Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 [10] 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 .. 19 :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 100 post(s) |
|
CCP Sreegs
C C P C C P Alliance
726
|
Posted - 2012.04.03 22:54:00 -
[271] - Quote
Ganthrithor wrote:Ugh this forum is literally the worst (or the best, depending on how you see it)-- press post, no posting happens.
Anyway, tl;dp: Given that RMTers will lie about why they want ISK, and perspective loans are usually evaluated based on the loanee's ability to repay the loan (their wealth, repayment track record, etc), how the hell are we supposed to magically know who is and who isn't an RMTer when we go to loan people ISK?
Serious question. I'm part of an alliance of 5k plus players (you may have heard of it). We have a whole sub-forum dedicated to player contracts (largely loans). I have a pile of spacebux of my own and loan some of that out to people periodically based on whether or not I think that person can and will pay me back. How is this supposed to continue to be a thing if you can find yourself permabanned not for botting or RMTing but merely for loaning isk to ONE CHARACTER of someone who does RMT (which could involve any of the accounts that person has on the books, including characters that may or may not be in your alliance at all)?
My job isn't to secure the loans your corporation is making outside of the game mechanics. That is your risk and always will be. |
|
Ganthrithor
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
201
|
Posted - 2012.04.03 22:56:00 -
[272] - Quote
You can't seriously expect people to KNOW whether or not someone is involved in RMT in a game full of anonymous sociopaths.
Just cyan.
e: For clarification, is it loaning to anyone involved in RMT that will get you f##ked or just ISK sellers? I imagine there are exponentially fewer sellers than buyers. |
|
CCP Sreegs
C C P C C P Alliance
729
|
Posted - 2012.04.03 22:59:00 -
[273] - Quote
Ganthrithor wrote:You can't seriously expect people to KNOW whether or not someone is involved in RMT in a game full of anonymous sociopaths.
Just cyan.
I don't disagree. We also don't support loan systems. This is why if I'm correct you have a subforum as you stated for loans and the punishment for defaulting on said loan is player justice not an in-game action from CCP. We didn't design a loan system. Maybe it's something we should do, maybe not, the point is that yourself and others are making a big to-do about
A) Something that we haven't had to do anything about yet because nobody's been snagged wrongly to date B) Something that is a player-run mechanic.
I can't provide validation around something we didn't create. |
|
Alx Warlord
SUPERNOVA SOCIETY Tribal Conclave
91
|
Posted - 2012.04.03 23:00:00 -
[274] - Quote
This means less cheaters, more plex in the market, reduced plex isk value, and a better game for those who play to pay.
Good job CCP! |
|
CCP Sreegs
C C P C C P Alliance
729
|
Posted - 2012.04.03 23:01:00 -
[275] - Quote
Ganthrithor wrote:You can't seriously expect people to KNOW whether or not someone is involved in RMT in a game full of anonymous sociopaths.
Just cyan.
e: For clarification, is it loaning to anyone involved in RMT that will get you f##ked or just ISK sellers? I imagine there are exponentially fewer sellers than buyers.
Your risk as it stands today would be that you'd be supplying a seller who would then sell what you loaned them. Buyers simply have the isk removed and only the isk that was given them by the seller.
:edit: either way it seems you're out money because you made a bad loan? |
|
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
496
|
Posted - 2012.04.03 23:01:00 -
[276] - Quote
CCP Sreegs wrote:
My job isn't to secure the loans your corporation is making outside of the game mechanics. That is your risk and always will be.
:edit: and always has been
Sending ISK to somebody and (hopefully) have it back + interests after 30 days IS inside game mechanics.
Else why can we send ISK to somebody else?
With your reasoning ANY ISK exchange can be with a RMTer and subject to ban.
And you guess what?
They get ban, no ability to post. No ability to petition but use a craptastic ancient general contact form that is used by thousands guys sending spam or asking for general EvE info.
After WEEKS of being daily stolen subscription money a GM replies them that their logs show nothing and closes the petition. They can reopen a new petition and escalate it and get a "the former GM was right, now GTFO" reply. Be happy, now they will have purple letter, unsellable account and be shunned by everybody and no single way to ever be heard again.
Sure this is not your concern, but it's us who have to bear with this bullsht even in tangential cases. Auditing | Collateral holding and insurance | Consulting | PLEX for Good Charity
Twitter channel |
|
CCP Sreegs
C C P C C P Alliance
729
|
Posted - 2012.04.03 23:04:00 -
[277] - Quote
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:CCP Sreegs wrote:
My job isn't to secure the loans your corporation is making outside of the game mechanics. That is your risk and always will be.
:edit: and always has been
Sending ISK to somebody and (hopefully) have it back + interests after 30 days IS inside game mechanics. Else why can we send ISK to somebody else? With your reasoning ANY ISK exchange can be with a RMTer and subject to ban. And you guess what? They get ban, no ability to post. No ability to petition but use a craptastic ancient general contact form that is used by thousands guys sending spam or asking for general EvE info. After WEEKS of being daily stolen subscription money a GM replies them that their logs show nothing and closes the petition. They can reopen a new petition and escalate it and get a "the former GM was right, now GTFO" reply. Be happy, now they will have purple letter, unsellable account and be shunned by everybody and no single way to ever be heard again. Sure this is not your concern, but it's us who have to bear with this bullsht even in tangential cases.
Giving isk to someone is in the game mechanics yes. Getting it back with interest based on some predetermined condition is not. That is what a loan is. A deposit box is not a loan system. We didn't build a loan system and nothing you're lamenting has occurred based on anything my team has done. Nor do I even see it as conceivable at this point but don't let that stop you from making 100 more posts on the subject in this thread. :) |
|
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
496
|
Posted - 2012.04.03 23:07:00 -
[278] - Quote
CCP Sreegs wrote: Giving isk to someone is in the game mechanics yes. Getting it back with interest based on some predetermined condition is not. That is what a loan is. A deposit box is not a loan system. We didn't build a loan system and nothing you're lamenting has occurred based on anything my team has done. Nor do I even see it as conceivable at this point but don't let that stop you from making 100 more posts on the subject in this thread. :)
When I will be banned just because I did what people on the Market Discussion forum do since years (EvE finance) or because I did what Chribba does (holding ships and collateral for third parties) or just because I got paid with RMT money for a BPO I sold (notice, no loan here), then at least I'll be able to wait for the unban and then link these posts as a "hey I was right" reminder.
Meager consolation, eh? Auditing | Collateral holding and insurance | Consulting | PLEX for Good Charity
Twitter channel |
|
CCP Sreegs
C C P C C P Alliance
729
|
Posted - 2012.04.03 23:09:00 -
[279] - Quote
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:CCP Sreegs wrote: Giving isk to someone is in the game mechanics yes. Getting it back with interest based on some predetermined condition is not. That is what a loan is. A deposit box is not a loan system. We didn't build a loan system and nothing you're lamenting has occurred based on anything my team has done. Nor do I even see it as conceivable at this point but don't let that stop you from making 100 more posts on the subject in this thread. :)
When I will be banned just because I did what people on the Market Discussion forum do since years (EvE finance) or because I did what Chribba does (holding ships and collateral for third parties) or just because I got paid with RMT money for a BPO I sold (notice, no loan here), then at least I'll be able to wait for the unban and then link these posts as a "hey I was right" reminder. Meager consolation, eh?
If it will make you feel better if that happens I'll either say you were right or you'll have been caught doing something bad. |
|
|
CCP Loktofeit
C C P C C P Alliance
79
|
Posted - 2012.04.03 23:10:00 -
[280] - Quote
InVictus Kell wrote:From the dev post:
" Buy PLEX, don't be a space butt "
nice, reads like a good 'ol fashion political slogan or old war bond ad from WWII.
http://community.eveonline.com/bitmaps/newsletters/vol032/plexNewEden.jpg
"...do Eve News 24; it's a very accurate and informative website." - Mara Tessidar |
|
|
Just Alter
Bikini Bottom Surfer Talocan United
8
|
Posted - 2012.04.03 23:11:00 -
[281] - Quote
Great job Sreegs!
I'm amused by your resilience in dealing with these whiners...
Dont cheat= you'll be alright.
Afraid about loans/reimbursement/something else= stop doing till it will be safe again; maybe you could do it till now just because of bots,rmters :) |
DeODokktor
Dark Templars The Fonz Presidium
4
|
Posted - 2012.04.03 23:15:00 -
[282] - Quote
CCP Sreegs wrote: My job isn't to secure the loans your corporation is making outside of the game mechanics. That is your risk and always will be.
:edit: and always has been
The game doesnt have mechanics in place for loans, hence the need for us to go about it outside the mechanics. We have the omlett now, give us the eggs.
Of course, it's not your area, it's not the area of anyone else either, it falls into that "make a suggestion and if it is good for combat we'll take it to an internal board and think about it" group.
Your not the one to push for this change, but you are the one who will have to deal with the fact that trading/sharing/loaning does take place in eve because there are missing mechanisms. If your all about detecting bots then I would go with ya in saying that my argument is moot. If your going to focus on RMT then it's not moot.
I think a few people are just looking for you to say that your not going to screw them over because they have helped out (or been helped out) indirectly by someone who has,does, or will take part in RMT.
I for one was once banned because a RMT'er was giving out free stuff in amarr, Opening trade windows and putting stuff in them and clicking Okay. You see a 300m item in a trade window with a green check and you are inclinded to accept it, a GM banned me (and a lot of other people) and gave me a warning that I should never for the rest of my eve life accept anything for less than what it's worth. To this day I can say that I think he was an Idiot when it comes to how he viewed that (my ban was undone, but going by his view if I purchase something on market for 10% of it's value I should be banned). Devs have often taken their own ideas and ran (leaped) into something without themselves knowing all of the mechanics in play. Sure, you cant outline every situation, but knowing that corps or alliances could be destroyed by Botters/RMT'ers in your group is going to be really offputting. |
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
496
|
Posted - 2012.04.03 23:15:00 -
[283] - Quote
Just Alter wrote:Great job Sreegs!
I'm amused by your resilience in dealing with these whiners...
Dont cheat= you'll be alright.
Afraid about loans/reimbursement/something else= stop doing till it will be safe again; maybe you could do it till now just because of bots,rmters :)
Quite sure Goonswarm are going to be able to stop reimbursing ships for 5000 players with the snap of a finger. Auditing | Collateral holding and insurance | Consulting | PLEX for Good Charity
Twitter channel |
Smodab Ongalot
Immortalis Inc. Shadow Cartel
87
|
Posted - 2012.04.03 23:18:00 -
[284] - Quote
First I want to say, excellent work. Eve is a sandbox and should be run by players. I find the removal of botters and RMT as part of the bigger step on the path away from NPC control.
But, I did have one small concern.
I was wondering, Senior Sreegs, if perhaps you should amend the section of your blog:
Quote:The ONLY legal seller of PLEX is CCP
to
Quote:The ONLY legal sellers of PLEX are CCP and their affiliates
It seems it would be prudent to make it clear that there are other legal resellers of PLEX (ShatteredCrystal, for example), perhaps even provide a link to a list of authorized resellers.
There is alot of nerd-fear going around about getting "collateral banned" for accidentally dealing with an RMTer. It be a shame for legitimate businesses to suffer because of the demise of the bastard ones.
Edit: *SIGH* This is what happens when you post without completely finishing the thread.... I just saw you addressed my concern like 4 pages back. |
I Love Boobies
All Hail Boobies
90
|
Posted - 2012.04.03 23:22:00 -
[285] - Quote
Excellent blog. Thanks for keeping us up to date on the RMT and so on. I would like to say Screegs that I admire your patience in this thread, and taking the time to answer as much as you have. Good luck with the work you guys are doing there in the EVE security team. ( o Y o ) ( o Y o ) ( o Y o ) ( o Y o ) ( o Y o ) ( o Y o ) ( o Y o ) ( o Y o ) ( o Y o ) ( o Y o ) ( o Y o ) ( o Y o )
The world would be a better place if boobies ran the world instead of boobs. |
Lt Pizi
Dark-Rising
70
|
Posted - 2012.04.03 23:22:00 -
[286] - Quote
gamecard (whatSC sells ) is not plex btw What a lot of goon need to realise is that its not because we hate you that we do these things Its because -áWE LOVE YOU Goon Tears are best tears, because they're 25% alcohol by volume! |
Minabunny
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
55
|
Posted - 2012.04.03 23:24:00 -
[287] - Quote
So what are you going to the corps/alliances that rent space in low/null sec to botters? |
Gevlin
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
126
|
Posted - 2012.04.03 23:26:00 -
[288] - Quote
Thank you for the work the security team is completing.
Sorta funny how people are worried about loaning money to people who are loosing it to RMT... It is not like loosing you money to some scam artist, is it? Except this scam artist is Breaking the EULA. Fine he may be paying you back once in a while but he is doing evil things with you money... and he is just building up trust with you before he simply "Cashes out"
People need to avoid enabling RMT players and be less complacent allowing botters and RMTers to operate. I have heard of the story of A friend of a friend of mine cashed out making $$ on line, or is botting with out being caught. I wish these people would report these activities or at least tell me who these people are so I can at least report them!!
Funny Portion: For those who are concerned about Loosing your money to RMTer activities, loan your money to me. I will carefully loose you money in a strategic way that not be taken by CCP. My money loosing ideas include: Ratting in a Titan in Hostile Space, Self Destructing Super Cap for the insurance pay out, and Placing Plex in can in front of Jita where I will shoot at people who try and take it!
Loose your money to me! I Guarantee it will be SECURE from being lost because of RMT actions... while it lasts....
This is going to make to help make Mining a viable profession again.
I agree with several people: CCP needs to focus most of eve's recources on FIS, but the development of WIS still needs to continue, just as a slower and more efficient pace. In eve I wish to be more than just a machine. |
General Abrams
ABOS Industrial Enterprises
0
|
Posted - 2012.04.03 23:29:00 -
[289] - Quote
Awesome Work! I certainly hope the Bans include Mission botters!
|
corestwo
Goonfleet Investment Banking
133
|
Posted - 2012.04.03 23:33:00 -
[290] - Quote
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:Just Alter wrote:Great job Sreegs!
I'm amused by your resilience in dealing with these whiners...
Dont cheat= you'll be alright.
Afraid about loans/reimbursement/something else= stop doing till it will be safe again; maybe you could do it till now just because of bots,rmters :) Quite sure Goonswarm are going to be able to stop reimbursing ships for 5000 players with the snap of a finger.
Stereotypes
You would actually be surprised how little of our income, comparatively speaking, comes from ratting in general. |
|
Cpt Arareb
Ideal Machine Many Reckless Corps
14
|
Posted - 2012.04.03 23:36:00 -
[291] - Quote
im really looking forward to banning of all bots. prices will rise!! .. Sure they will but then again is fine for me, I really like the idea being extremely hard for one individual to buy or make a battleship, thats the way it should be (lets face it is a Battleship!)and one person buy/make a carrier should be extremely rare, the way I see things a carrier should be a corp/alliance job and after owning it, those most respected most valuable and more trusted (and that have the required skills ofc) would be the designated pilot for that carrier, same with the titans and supers only alliances would be capable (with cooperation and hard work of they members) of making and owning one such beast.
no one that loses they bots will be in any diferent advantage then before if everyone around dont use bots.
with time the economy will stabilize (with higher prices) and what you will see is that before everyone individual and his mother owned a capital, and now they fly around in cruisers or frigates and when taking a battleship for a spin they will go with some more brain and think more about what they flying and how expensive it was to buy/ make that battleship, and no one in they right mind will hotdrop small gangs with carriers because that would be insanely stupid since so many ppl mined they ass off during weeks/months to build that carrier.
even will be better for those poor folks that get in game and mine looking for some profit, they will have it! They will actually have fun going into lowsec and null mine those more rare ores to make a good profit of that ( and no I dont mine dont have memory of ever tryed it before), that will make a revamp on low/null/wh mining profession, and thats only fair.
tl:dr : with no bots prices will get higher, but, dont mean is bad thing. |
Vance Armistice
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
2
|
Posted - 2012.04.03 23:37:00 -
[292] - Quote
Excellent work!!!!
I just don't know if Iceland is big enough to contain this much win!!!! Between the freshly crowned Super-Ninja-Space-PoPo CCP Sreegs and our Lord and Savior CCP Diagoras I am concerned...
OMG!!!! What would happen if they mated?!?! Is the Earth ready for such an advanced being?
I am ready to find out...
Popcorn.... |
|
CCP Sreegs
C C P C C P Alliance
736
|
Posted - 2012.04.03 23:41:00 -
[293] - Quote
General Abrams wrote:Awesome Work! I certainly hope the Bans include Mission botters!
They do |
|
DeODokktor
Dark Templars The Fonz Presidium
4
|
Posted - 2012.04.03 23:44:00 -
[294] - Quote
Well, I have about 50bn isk in non-secured loans out. It's just going by his indications it seems that when I take payment for them (this month and next) that I will be expecting another ban, followed by a few days to a couple of weeks of me having this argument with GM's. I dont think my loans are out to RMT'ers or BOT'ers but how do I know that projects I am funding will not fall foul of some script he runs.
Would I give isk up to someone who is just going to go do botting, no, durrrr. But to know that yet another someone inside ccp is setting script triggers based on movement of things that may be valid, well, it just makes me sad. He cant help that there's no mechanism in place - he could help, he could complain to the team that deals with that area of design. GM's complain about workload, we give solutions that would reduce workload. How a DEV can say that helping to raise a solution or guideline for GM's or Design Teams to go over is not something in his area shows how much each section of ccp is now sharded. If he cared about his time he would point the problem to the design teams, If he gave two hoots about the GM's time then he would not just say that "Loans are not supported ... It is not my area .. I will ban you .. Speak to someone else".
Not saying he's a bad guy, Not saying that the game isnt in dire need of BOT detection, Not saying that RMT is a good thing. I am saying that if he is going to be over the script routines that dictates when we get a ban (daily) then he needs to also have some responsibilty in pointing the erronious detections towards a team that can make sure they dont happen and put systems in place to make it so it no longer causes problems for such detections.
Now, if he wants to say that when I have 50bn isk transferred back to me (history shows a large sum going out previously) over the next few weeks that I have nothing to worry about then I can let the argument go. |
Gevlin
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
126
|
Posted - 2012.04.03 23:45:00 -
[295] - Quote
Minabunny wrote:So what are you going to the corps/alliances that rent space in low/null sec to botters?
Simple answer: Ensure to they have vacancies for real people since botting tenants will be hard to come by?
Though Report players that you think are bots to is gives the sercuity team people to look at and examine.
Through Observing the behavior of a complex bot, a program may be able to detect the algoritems used to detect that same bot again.
I agree with several people: CCP needs to focus most of eve's recources on FIS, but the development of WIS still needs to continue, just as a slower and more efficient pace. In eve I wish to be more than just a machine. |
Lt Pizi
Dark-Rising
70
|
Posted - 2012.04.03 23:45:00 -
[296] - Quote
CCP Sreegs wrote:General Abrams wrote:Awesome Work! I certainly hope the Bans include Mission botters!
They do
market bots ? What a lot of goon need to realise is that its not because we hate you that we do these things Its because -áWE LOVE YOU Goon Tears are best tears, because they're 25% alcohol by volume! |
Ganthrithor
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
201
|
Posted - 2012.04.03 23:45:00 -
[297] - Quote
I suppose if the loan market dries up-- not completely, but a large portion of it-- due to fear of bans, more people will need to turn to CCP-sanctioned RMTing to get money, right?
Personally I won't be loaning out ISK anymore. Making a few billion isn't worth jeopardizing six years of work. |
|
CCP Sreegs
C C P C C P Alliance
736
|
Posted - 2012.04.03 23:45:00 -
[298] - Quote
DeODokktor wrote:Well, I have about 50bn isk in non-secured loans out. It's just going by his indications it seems that when I take payment for them (this month and next) that I will be expecting another ban, followed by a few days to a couple of weeks of me having this argument with GM's. I dont think my loans are out to RMT'ers or BOT'ers but how do I know that projects I am funding will not fall foul of some script he runs.
Would I give isk up to someone who is just going to go do botting, no, durrrr. But to know that yet another someone inside ccp is setting script triggers based on movement of things that may be valid, well, it just makes me sad. He cant help that there's no mechanism in place - he could help, he could complain to the team that deals with that area of design. GM's complain about workload, we give solutions that would reduce workload. How a DEV can say that helping to raise a solution or guideline for GM's or Design Teams to go over is not something in his area shows how much each section of ccp is now sharded. If he cared about his time he would point the problem to the design teams, If he gave two hoots about the GM's time then he would not just say that "Loans are not supported ... It is not my area .. I will ban you .. Speak to someone else".
Not saying he's a bad guy, Not saying that the game isnt in dire need of BOT detection, Not saying that RMT is a good thing. I am saying that if he is going to be over the script routines that dictates when we get a ban (daily) then he needs to also have some responsibilty in pointing the erronious detections towards a team that can make sure they dont happen and put systems in place to make it so it no longer causes problems for such detections.
Now, if he wants to say that when I have 50bn isk transferred back to me (history shows a large sum going out previously) over the next few weeks that I have nothing to worry about then I can let the argument go.
Nobody is getting script triggers today about anything other than bad activity. Stop panicking about things that aren't happening and spreading misinformation please thanks. |
|
|
CCP Sreegs
C C P C C P Alliance
736
|
Posted - 2012.04.03 23:47:00 -
[299] - Quote
Lt Pizi wrote:CCP Sreegs wrote:General Abrams wrote:Awesome Work! I certainly hope the Bans include Mission botters!
They do market bots ?
Yes them too |
|
Natasha Preston
State War Academy Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2012.04.03 23:48:00 -
[300] - Quote
Just Alter wrote:Great job Sreegs!
I'm amused by your resilience in dealing with these whiners...
Dont cheat= you'll be alright.
+1
Great work CCP and security guys, just hope you can keep this going. This is more important than anything else, because botters make the whole game meaningless, more so in a sandbox like EVE.
Death to all cheaters, make them suffer.
<3 CCP Sreegs |
|
|
|
|
Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 [10] 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 .. 19 :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |