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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 100 post(s) |
Buzzy Warstl
The Strontium Asylum
94
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Posted - 2012.04.04 14:57:00 -
[421] - Quote
Chris Wheeler wrote: This reads like a left-wing political commentary. Pro illegal immigration (bots) because the legal citizens(players) don't want to do the work that the illegals are willing to do.
I thought this was the right wing argument?
You can't deport them! They're the cheapest servants I've ever had! (not fond of either wing, I'll walk TYVM).
Needless to say, the rules are there for a reason, and in the case of botting I would invite anybody who thinks the game is too boring to play to go outside and quit %#$#ting in our sandbox. |
Lt Pizi
Dark-Rising
71
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Posted - 2012.04.04 15:01:00 -
[422] - Quote
Darth Tickles wrote:Lt Pizi wrote:thought you cant sell if flagged ?? the theory is theyre being dumped before they get negged/banned
i c well then , maybe ccp should ban character sales for a short period Edit or at least put a warning What a lot of goon need to realise is that its not because we hate you that we do these things Its because -áWE LOVE YOU Goon Tears are best tears, because they're 25% alcohol by volume! |
Chris Wheeler
Massively Motivated
1
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Posted - 2012.04.04 15:04:00 -
[423] - Quote
Allataria wrote:This was an argument to reduce botting not RMT. Your statement seems that you still don't understand the reasoning most people use to support why they not. All I see is we aren't willing to look at new ways to improve our game and help our players we just want a quick solution regardless of the implications that it creates. When I mean fun I mean anything other then warp to belt kill these rats. Warp to next belt. Rinse repeat. Missed are far enjoyable then ratting or running anomalies. Null sec and all space needs more and engaging ways to make isk. Sitting in a belt with a miner or ratting ship for six hours a day is not fun way to make island compared to missions in high sec.
Your statement is highly disturbing for those of us who want the game to improve itself and that CCP is listening to the entire playerbase not just a minority. More research could have been done in understanding why people bot and ask those who do why they do it so the game can be improve d for the better and enjoyment for all instead of you will be banned and we don't care about trying to improve the game.
It will be interesting to see how the market will react to all these accounts being banned when so much of the.economy depends on their output. My guess is negatively. Might be a good time to start buying minerals
Let me summarize for TLDR crowd: "It's not my fault I bot, ITS A DISEASE! I am a VICTIM. (please send isk to this poor, helpless victim)" |
Chris Wheeler
Massively Motivated
1
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Posted - 2012.04.04 15:11:00 -
[424] - Quote
Allataria wrote:All I see here is I'm a pubbie who likes to mission customer the how I play. Try ratting in null sec for 6 hours a day and tell me its more fun and productive then missions. Oh that's right its not. CCP is failing to look at reasons and causes to hitting and is lazy going for the easy fix. Long time players have tried in vain to express the shortcomings of the game but it has fallen on deaf ears time and time again. Maybe when these bots get banned and loads of long timers stop subbing and the in game market falls apart and CCP starts to.lose.money they will see the larger picture.
Pelosi plays EVE?!?!? |
Victor Valka
Endoxa Corporation
18
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Posted - 2012.04.04 15:13:00 -
[425] - Quote
CCP Sreegs wrote:MissGemini wrote:@CCP Screegs - I have info I would like to convey in an anon fashion, how should I do this? [email protected] I'm the only one who sees it Is that an invitation to send nudes or what!?
|
Chris Wheeler
Massively Motivated
1
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Posted - 2012.04.04 15:27:00 -
[426] - Quote
I'm SOOO gonna send you inappropriate pictures. |
Par'Gellen
23
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Posted - 2012.04.04 15:49:00 -
[427] - Quote
I didn't read the entire thread but my only concern about the whole botting/banning thing would be false positives. For instance: If I were to try to log in one day and got an "You've been banned!" message I would need to know why in detail since I don't bot or deal with RMT in any way THAT I AM AWARE OF. I buy and sell large quantities of various things on the market and contracts all the time and I have no idea if the buyers and sellers are botters or RMT'ers. Does that connect me to them in terms of flagging?
And my biggest concern is what's to stop some rich asshat who is mad at me and fed up with the game and never going to play again from sending me isk and then reporting me as RMT? I understand he would be killing his own account as well but if he doesn't care about that then what's to stop him?
These are the things that concern me about this whole affair.
If you can assure me this kind false positive thing can't happen then I'm all for it! To err is human, but it shouldn't be the company motto... |
Ximena Navah
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
0
|
Posted - 2012.04.04 15:51:00 -
[428] - Quote
Chris Wheeler wrote:Allataria wrote:This was an argument to reduce botting not RMT. Your statement seems that you still don't understand the reasoning most people use to support why they not. All I see is we aren't willing to look at new ways to improve our game and help our players we just want a quick solution regardless of the implications that it creates. When I mean fun I mean anything other then warp to belt kill these rats. Warp to next belt. Rinse repeat. Missed are far enjoyable then ratting or running anomalies. Null sec and all space needs more and engaging ways to make isk. Sitting in a belt with a miner or ratting ship for six hours a day is not fun way to make island compared to missions in high sec.
Your statement is highly disturbing for those of us who want the game to improve itself and that CCP is listening to the entire playerbase not just a minority. More research could have been done in understanding why people bot and ask those who do why they do it so the game can be improve d for the better and enjoyment for all instead of you will be banned and we don't care about trying to improve the game.
It will be interesting to see how the market will react to all these accounts being banned when so much of the.economy depends on their output. My guess is negatively. Might be a good time to start buying minerals Let me summarize for TLDR crowd: "It's not my fault I bot, ITS A DISEASE! I am a VICTIM. (please send isk to this poor, helpless victim)"
Perhaps the Security Team should look in depth into "Martyr's Vengeance" - I heard one irish dude had a few bots up in venal while in the "testagram" in Deklein |
Grikath
T.E.L.O.G.S.
29
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Posted - 2012.04.04 15:57:00 -
[429] - Quote
Sreegs has already stated that people who insist that they are "false positives" and get banned should use the normal petition route.
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Ibn Taymiyyah
Treasures Collectors Northern Associates.
4
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Posted - 2012.04.04 15:59:00 -
[430] - Quote
Good work. Nice to see some giants fall of the cliff
CCP Sreegs, this whole thing about people not having a way of knowing who's the bad guy reminded me of your thread about the name and shame, and why chars that have been banned for botting in the past should be marked. Well, this is one of the other cenarios where people would be, at least, more careful when handing out isk, regardless if it's a loan or a donation. Whatever
Just thought I'd add this to the discussion. Sorry if someone else brought it up already but I didn't manage to read the whole thread as real life happened and prevented me from doing so! :D |
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Par'Gellen
23
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Posted - 2012.04.04 16:06:00 -
[431] - Quote
Grikath wrote:Sreegs has already stated that people who insist that they are "false positives" and get banned should use the normal petition route.
That does not assure me in the slightest... Hell at this point I'm actually concerned about buying or selling anything. To err is human, but it shouldn't be the company motto... |
Selissa Shadoe
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
32
|
Posted - 2012.04.04 16:27:00 -
[432] - Quote
I think while it's understandable that we're against botters since they ruin the market it's interesting to see that although there's lots of punishment ideas being waved around noone has mentioned WHY the botters even exist to begin with. If a part of the gameplay can be so simple to be replicated by a software program then shouldn't the focus be on trying to change that aspect of gameplay?
The whole 'scarlet letter' thread and 'plex for snitches' is disturbing since it sounds too much like **** Germany (yes, I went there) and you have the distinct possibility of abuse of the system, as mentioned about people falsely reporting their foes.
All in all I think it would wise to tread carefully on any punishment scheme since this is a GAME after all, and if it becomes too draconian then people will leave it.
EDIT: apparently not possible to Godwin the thread these days.. |
Killer Gandry
V I R I I Ineluctable.
228
|
Posted - 2012.04.04 16:36:00 -
[433] - Quote
I reckong you also keep your eyes on E-Bay and Graigslist and such. Plenty of illegal stuff going on there.
E-Bay you could make use of the VeRO-Program to get those removed.
just a suggestion |
Par'Gellen
23
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Posted - 2012.04.04 16:38:00 -
[434] - Quote
Is there any way I can alert CCP when I'm going to do something that might get me flagged? Do I need to submit a petition before each market sale or isk transfer?
Something like: "I'm selling/buying a rediculously large pile of PI stuff today. PLEASE DON'T BAN ME!" "I'm transfering a rediculously large amount of isk between atls today. PLEASE DON'T BAN ME!" "I'm depositing/removing a rediculously large amount of isk to/from the corp wallet today. PLEASE DON'T BAN ME!" "I'm gonna grind some missions today. My alt(s) might help out. PLEASE DON'T BAN ME!"
Etcetera ad infinitum...
I'm all for botters/RMT destruction but I do NOT want to be lumped in with them through normal gameplay. To err is human, but it shouldn't be the company motto... |
Buzzy Warstl
The Strontium Asylum
94
|
Posted - 2012.04.04 16:48:00 -
[435] - Quote
Selissa Shadoe wrote:I think while it's understandable that we're against botters since they ruin the market it's interesting to see that although there's lots of punishment ideas being waved around noone has mentioned WHY the botters even exist to begin with. If a part of the gameplay can be so simple to be replicated by a software program then shouldn't the focus be on trying to change that aspect of gameplay?
There is no gameplay mechanism that is both easy enough to be fun for ordinary players and too complex to automate.
In fact, gameplay complexity can reach a point where it becomes hard enough that people who wouldn't normally be tempted to use a bot because something was boring are tempted because it is too difficult otherwise.
When it comes to games, a program running on your computer: 1. can see what is going on better than you can. 2. has perfect reaction time 3. has infinite patience 4. Can react to queues that the client deliberately hides from players.
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agrajag119
Paxton Industries Gentlemen's Agreement
8
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Posted - 2012.04.04 16:58:00 -
[436] - Quote
Par'Gellen wrote:Is there any way I can alert CCP when I'm going to do something that might get me flagged? Do I need to submit a petition before each market sale or isk transfer?
Something like: "I'm selling/buying a rediculously large pile of PI stuff today. PLEASE DON'T BAN ME!" "I'm transfering a rediculously large amount of isk between alts today. PLEASE DON'T BAN ME!" "I'm depositing/removing a rediculously large amount of isk to/from the corp wallet today. PLEASE DON'T BAN ME!" "I'm gonna grind some missions today. My alt(s) might help out. PLEASE DON'T BAN ME!"
Et cetera ad infinitum...
I'm all for botters/RMT destruction but I do NOT want to be lumped in with them through normal gameplay.
Sreegs has already said that they're detection mechanisms are complex enough that normal activities don't show up. Think about it, if that sort of activity got you flagged, they would be looking at a ridiculous number of each day. In order for their scripts to be effective, they have to be selective.
Now he can't go into details, simply because the bott / rmt crowd is reading this too. If he said "we watch for xxx activity", they would just stop doing that.
Put down the tinfoil for a minute and realize that this guys RL job depends on his accuracy in finding legit abusers, not the innocent. If he doesn't do it right, he's back to eating ramen each day and looking for work. If nothing else, trust in his own desire to be employed |
ITTigerClawIK
Galactic Rangers Galactic-Rangers
96
|
Posted - 2012.04.04 17:05:00 -
[437] - Quote
CCP Sreegs wrote:Blastcaps Madullier wrote:Skye Aurorae wrote: I mean I have ads popup alongside my youtube tutorial videos that occasionally advertise the sale of Isk and items in Eve, I have no control over these ads Seem to remember reading something a while back about the way youtube handles IP claims, ie someone claiming eve vids etc places adds on others vids where the one claiming IP rights gets the advertising revenue, also seems a good way for RMT crowd gaining free aditional money for the adds, might be worth either yourself seeing about disputing the ownership of the vids on youtube or better CCP games doing so. atm in middle of something in eve, when i can i'll see about tracking down the news article about this and post a link on this thread. Found it. http://torrentfreak.com/youtubes-content-id-piracy-filter-wreaks-havoc-110908/ You're welcome to send some examples of these ads to [email protected]. We haven't yet done much about it but it's been on the radar.
i myself am constantly running into these adds on EVE youtube videos advertiseing RMT for EVE as well as bot programs, though i thought CCP didnt really care about the stuff on youtube, its good to see that it is indeed in your scope. |
Skippermonkey
Tactical Knightmare
907
|
Posted - 2012.04.04 17:05:00 -
[438] - Quote
& My homeboys tried to warn me But that butt you got makes me so horny |
Skippermonkey
Tactical Knightmare
907
|
Posted - 2012.04.04 17:06:00 -
[439] - Quote
Grikath wrote:Sreegs has already stated that people who insist that they are "false positives" and get banned should use the normal petition route.
have you ever tried to petition anything with a banned account?
its rather tricky
lol My homeboys tried to warn me But that butt you got makes me so horny |
Par'Gellen
23
|
Posted - 2012.04.04 17:08:00 -
[440] - Quote
agrajag119 wrote:Sreegs has already said that they're detection mechanisms are complex enough that normal activities don't show up. Think about it, if that sort of activity got you flagged, they would be looking at a ridiculous number of each day. In order for their scripts to be effective, they have to be selective. Now he can't go into details, simply because the bott / rmt crowd is reading this too. If he said "we watch for xxx activity", they would just stop doing that. Put down the tinfoil for a minute and realize that this guys RL job depends on his accuracy in finding legit abusers, not the innocent. If he doesn't do it right, he's back to eating ramen each day and looking for work. If nothing else, trust in his own desire to be employed I see your point. It just scares the hell out of me. I've got a lot of time in this game (pushing 9 years now) and am able to easily do things that others might find quite difficult. It just bothers me that what I consider every-day gameplay might risk getting me flagged as an RMTer or something and after reading this entire thread I see nothing that reassures me that that can't happen. To err is human, but it shouldn't be the company motto... |
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Killer Gandry
V I R I I Ineluctable.
229
|
Posted - 2012.04.04 17:21:00 -
[441] - Quote
Skippermonkey wrote:Grikath wrote:Sreegs has already stated that people who insist that they are "false positives" and get banned should use the normal petition route.
have you ever tried to petition anything with a banned account? its rather tricky lol
Ever heard of starting a new trail account and petition from there?
Doesn't need rocketscience you know.
|
J3ssica Alba
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
296
|
Posted - 2012.04.04 17:25:00 -
[442] - Quote
Par'Gellen wrote:agrajag119 wrote:Sreegs has already said that they're detection mechanisms are complex enough that normal activities don't show up. Think about it, if that sort of activity got you flagged, they would be looking at a ridiculous number of each day. In order for their scripts to be effective, they have to be selective. Now he can't go into details, simply because the bott / rmt crowd is reading this too. If he said "we watch for xxx activity", they would just stop doing that. Put down the tinfoil for a minute and realize that this guys RL job depends on his accuracy in finding legit abusers, not the innocent. If he doesn't do it right, he's back to eating ramen each day and looking for work. If nothing else, trust in his own desire to be employed I see your point. It just scares the hell out of me. I've got a lot of time in this game (pushing 9 years now) and am able to easily do things that others might find quite difficult. It just bothers me that what I consider every-day gameplay might risk getting me flagged as a RMTer or something and after reading this entire thread I see nothing that reassures me that that can't happen.
Was thinking the same earlier, posted 1 or 2 pages ago on this thread. Sometimes I just have "big" transactions happening when me and my friend get loot in DED sites and we split the value between us before we even sell the thing so as to have just 1 person worry about the market. Call me paranoid but some assurance from Sreegs that this doesn't result in a flag would be nice =) To the whiners :-áCCP Soundwave "Incursions are not a big issue in terms of isk globally" CCP Recurve "However, Incursions are not the biggest ISK faucet, bounties are"
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Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
260
|
Posted - 2012.04.04 17:33:00 -
[443] - Quote
Chris Wheeler wrote:Allataria wrote:CCP really needs to look at the root of the issue which is making isk in game in any way is terribly boring. Ratting or mining or hauling or missioning. It doesn't matter how you make your money they are all incredibly dull. The amount of time you have to devote to turn any profit especially ratting and mining is ridiculous. Not to mention the fact that if bitters are completely removed before any changes or fixes are put into place to resolve this issue the market willsuffer. Prices will soar an the output ofitems and ships will decrease. I doubt many people realise just how much the current mlarket is dependent on botters especiallythe miners. Let me say though I am not condoning or supporting them but most of the boys are a result of the game being just so dull and repetitive in the ways we make our isk. Incursions however are a good contrast as they are fun and enjoyable in how we make our money. But the problem still is that's its hard and boring to make isk especially in low and null sec. If we could find new ways to get people to actively engage the game to make isk and make it time effective we could seriously reduce the amount of botters in the game. Banning bots wont silver the problem as to why there are bots. It will just cause further issues down the road. Ccp needs to look at the initial reasons why people not and improve resolve and enhance the ways we make our isk in an effective and timely manner. This reads like a left-wing political commentary. Pro illegal immigration (bots) because the legal citizens(players) don't want to do the work that the illegals are willing to do. Supply and demand will balance everything out. Illegals get deported, ore supply will drop causing prices to go up (and prices of everything else as well). Since ore prices are higher, it is now worthwhile for legal citizens to mine, which will increase supply and lower prices. Prices are going to bob around until they reach equilibrium. The Government (ccp) needs to enforce the laws they produce (ex: no bots) and let the market regulate itself. They are doing that and all legal citizens will benefit from it. If making money was easy and the funnest thing in the game, inflation would skyrocket, but just like in the real world, the fun comes from SPENDING the money:) Also, Sreegs rocks.
But after years of living and thriving in EvE, how can you have the heart to deport bots into the horrific conditions of other games. They've really silently accepted as part of EvE for years, funding alliances and supercaps and shouldering the grunt work!!! Don't their long hours and monotonous work count for anything? How can you strip their accounts of all they have produced?? Do you not have a heart? |
Gorion Wassenar
Stimulus Rote Kapelle
21
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Posted - 2012.04.04 17:47:00 -
[444] - Quote
Butthurt botters and RMT'ers in this thread. |
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
504
|
Posted - 2012.04.04 17:54:00 -
[445] - Quote
Grikath wrote:Sreegs has already stated that people who insist that they are "false positives" and get banned should use the normal petition route.
Which in Unix terms is equal to dev/null.
Edit: actually no, it's more like starting a 100% RAM usage process in Windows 3.1. It gets done... eventually.
They need to hire like 10 times as many employess to make it acceptably fast. Auditing | Collateral holding and insurance | Consulting | PLEX for Good Charity
Twitter channel |
DeODokktor
Dark Templars The Fonz Presidium
4
|
Posted - 2012.04.04 18:44:00 -
[446] - Quote
Mashie Saldana wrote:CCP Sreegs wrote:To clarify on the ETC question regarding Shattered Crystal and our other resellers from earlier. You may purchase 60 day ETCs from official resellers: https://secure.eveonline.com/etc.aspxThose may then be converted for PLEX. They cannot be converted directly into isk. Only PLEX may be converted to isk. Actually, Sreegs is right. The GTC's sold on the forums will always be directly applied as time on the receiving account. Nice to see players flame devs for not knowing how things works when they actually do.
Okay, GTC can not be sold for isk, Only ingame PLEX, I'll agree with ya... CCP needs to shut down secure GTC trading as it is a figment of my imagination.
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Chris Wheeler
Massively Motivated
1
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Posted - 2012.04.04 18:47:00 -
[447] - Quote
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:Chris Wheeler wrote:Allataria wrote:CCP really needs to look at the root of the issue which is making isk in game in any way is terribly boring. Ratting or mining or hauling or missioning. It doesn't matter how you make your money they are all incredibly dull. The amount of time you have to devote to turn any profit especially ratting and mining is ridiculous. Not to mention the fact that if bitters are completely removed before any changes or fixes are put into place to resolve this issue the market willsuffer. Prices will soar an the output ofitems and ships will decrease. I doubt many people realise just how much the current mlarket is dependent on botters especiallythe miners. Let me say though I am not condoning or supporting them but most of the boys are a result of the game being just so dull and repetitive in the ways we make our isk. Incursions however are a good contrast as they are fun and enjoyable in how we make our money. But the problem still is that's its hard and boring to make isk especially in low and null sec. If we could find new ways to get people to actively engage the game to make isk and make it time effective we could seriously reduce the amount of botters in the game. Banning bots wont silver the problem as to why there are bots. It will just cause further issues down the road. Ccp needs to look at the initial reasons why people not and improve resolve and enhance the ways we make our isk in an effective and timely manner. This reads like a left-wing political commentary. Pro illegal immigration (bots) because the legal citizens(players) don't want to do the work that the illegals are willing to do. Supply and demand will balance everything out. Illegals get deported, ore supply will drop causing prices to go up (and prices of everything else as well). Since ore prices are higher, it is now worthwhile for legal citizens to mine, which will increase supply and lower prices. Prices are going to bob around until they reach equilibrium. The Government (ccp) needs to enforce the laws they produce (ex: no bots) and let the market regulate itself. They are doing that and all legal citizens will benefit from it. If making money was easy and the funnest thing in the game, inflation would skyrocket, but just like in the real world, the fun comes from SPENDING the money:) Also, Sreegs rocks. But after years of living and thriving in EvE, how can you have the heart to deport bots into the horrific conditions of other games. They've really silently accepted as part of EvE for years, funding alliances and supercaps and shouldering the grunt work!!! Don't their long hours and monotonous work count for anything? How can you strip their accounts of all they have produced?? Do you not have a heart?
Amnesty program? They keep their earnings, pay a fine, learn Icelandic: the start of a path to citizenship. |
Chris Wheeler
Massively Motivated
1
|
Posted - 2012.04.04 18:49:00 -
[448] - Quote
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:Grikath wrote:Sreegs has already stated that people who insist that they are "false positives" and get banned should use the normal petition route.
Which in Unix terms is equal to dev/null. Edit: actually no, it's more like starting a 100% RAM usage process in Windows 3.1. It gets done... eventually. They need to hire like 10 times as many employess to make it acceptably fast.
So quit mass unsubbing:) |
DeODokktor
Dark Templars The Fonz Presidium
4
|
Posted - 2012.04.04 19:01:00 -
[449] - Quote
saiy'an wrote:hello i just read this devblog, am kinda confused is the only legit plex directly from CCP, does this mean the ones you can buy on the market (ingame) is illegal since the sellers may have bought them with RMT isk.
how are we to know if the plex we are buying from this market is legal?
Unless you got them using a purchase order for say 100 isk per unit then it shouldnt matter. What is interesting is that they are saying they are going to claw back the isk, if they are going to reverse transactions then that would be a bit odd for consumable or destroyed things.
Your question goes to show something simple, RMT'ers will use contracts and markets to wash the items that they move. If you have buy orders up for 1% of an items value and someone fills it and they happen to be an RMT'er then you might need to explain, as the DEV is not going to get into the fine details then we will not know for sure. I would say that normal day to day market transactions are 100% safe unless your orders are showing some serious sign's that your trying to wash product. Few of those orders get filled, and generally the guys who place those orders are known.
I will not pretend that there's a easy way to spot legit vs bot or legit vs rmt. The ingame mechanics allow for scamming, overselling and underselling. RMT'ers do sell ingame products now for a fraction of the real value (You can catch them from time to time) so I know it does go on. It will be down to a GM or DEV to figgure out if those orders were to wash product or if they were a legit type of scam.
In the old contract days I would place orders up that isk sellers would fill and then report them. When the contract system came along and they could do things "private" then the ability for me to steal their isk was removed.
Just buy from the market and dont worry about it. Bot minerals and RMT isk flows through the markets in so many ways that it is doubtful you can buy any manufactured product that doesnt have a tie to RMT or Bots.
I for one and all for getting rid of BOTS and RMT. I am also all for getting rid of CCP's manipulation of the PLEX consumption. I am also for game fixes that would help stop Bots and secure gameplay.
I dont think i'll ask this dev any more questions, as he asked me to stop spreading lies. Asking a question is not a lie, but he's a dev and I guess he doesnt understand the difference. |
Padme Amidala Naberrie
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
24
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Posted - 2012.04.04 19:17:00 -
[450] - Quote
DeODokktor wrote:I dont think i'll ask this dev any more questions, as he asked me to stop spreading lies. Asking a question is not a lie, but he's a dev and I guess he doesnt understand the difference.
Nope. You and others like you with an agenda were asking loaded questions and in a lot of cases - while this may not apply to you directly - people were answering their own questions even though they didn't know what they were talking about or deliberately twisting the Dev's answers to suit their agenda and then using that as a stick to beat CCP with.
PAN |
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