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Corprate Flunky
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Posted - 2008.10.31 05:30:00 -
[1]
I got a real problem with the way the current insurance deal works. I had my hulk blown up in a belt, which isn't unusual, because ships getting popped happens every day. The fact that the insurance payout on one is an absolute joke isn't unusual either, but we will discuss that later.The problem that I really REALLY have is the fact that I wasn't notified that the insurance had lapsed UNTIL AFTER I was blown up in the belt. It was a real surprise to find the "Insurance was invalid" evemail when I got my pod back to the station. I couldn't believe it. I mean, my pos can nag me with 100 evemails a night telling me whenever it uses a single isotope under a certain level, but I can't get a friendly renewal notice for my insurance on a ship that I forked out 100+million for?That's just not right, and I know that it is just a simple fix, since you already have what you need in place.
Now, about the payout for the insurance. Every time I buy insurance for a tech 2 ship, I feel as though I am purchasing insurance that would cover a Yugo rather than a Ferrari. It's a simple fact that T2 ships are superior to their T1 counterparts, and the current market value reflects this. Insurance coverage for these ships should reflect this current market value also. I didn't have a problem forking out almost 50 million or so back when I had a Rohk, and I wouldn't have a problem forking out that much for my Hulk also. So why do I have to settle for incompetent insurance when I work hard to get the isk to buy that T2 ship?
I know that this seems to be a small matter, and that most people don't even purchase the insurance for a T2 ship because it's a waste of isk, but the insurance program either needs to be brought current or nerfed. It's nice for a cheap ship, but not for the ones that people REALLY want to fly.
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Philip Stark
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Posted - 2008.10.31 05:56:00 -
[2]
I totally agree with this. When you lose a T1 ship you at least can get the ISK to get the ship back, but with T2 ships its not even enough to buy another ship.
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Tnam
Caldari Mortis Angelus The Church.
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Posted - 2008.10.31 06:15:00 -
[3]
If the insurance payout was anything resembling the market value of the ship then it would be completely viable for the owners of T2 BPO's to manufacture t2 ships with the sole intention of blowing them up for insurance.
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Esmenet
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Posted - 2008.10.31 06:19:00 -
[4]
T2 insurance is working as intended. It keeps t1 ships useful (to an extent). If anything T1 insurance should be nerfed.
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Bellum Eternus
Gallente Death of Virtue
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Posted - 2008.10.31 06:47:00 -
[5]
LOL. I can't believe I'm reading this. You guys are complaining about not enough insurance on T2 ships. If anything, all insurance should be removed completely. Losses are too easy as it is.
Bellum Eternus Inveniam viam aut faciam. [Vid] I M M O R T A L
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Kaben
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Posted - 2008.10.31 07:30:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Bellum Eternus LOL. I can't believe I'm reading this. You guys are complaining about not enough insurance on T2 ships. If anything, all insurance should be removed completely. Losses are too easy as it is.
I can't aggree with this, t1 is not always an easy loss. The death penalty is quite harsh in eve. The t1 ship maybe somewhat fully insurable, but mods and rigs are not. I.E. If my mega gets popped the insurance will cover the ship, but mods and rigs add up. about 50mil worth in rigs alone, not counting mods. Removing t1 insurance would just lead to less people wanting to venture into low or null sec. Plus (I'll use the never boring phrase just because) "it will cause more blobage."
On the other hand t2 insurance is fine imo, people pay for that edge and that edge comes with that extra loss if it goes pop.
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Philip Stark
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Posted - 2008.10.31 08:16:00 -
[7]
Agreed about the T2 BPO owners going out and blowing up T2 ships to make buy more, but with invention that doenst mean that someone is going to buy a T2 BPO owners ship.
Look at it this way, if people lose their T2 ships and the insurance pays out at least 100% of the ship, then at least they will have the cash to buy another ship, which puts more isk back into the game faster. Instead of having to go mission or rat for a few days to recoop the losses of a T2 ship.
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Koyama Ise
Caldari Equestrian Knight Order of Lolicon
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Posted - 2008.10.31 08:28:00 -
[8]
To reinforce the ops first statement the insurance system has bugs up the arse... like the rest of this ****ing game. I mean have your interweb debates about insurance values all to hell fix the ****ing mail system involving insurance. I keep on getting my insurance expired mails when I open my insurance window not when it expires. FIX IT ALREADY! ------ FIX THE BLOODY OVERVIEW ALREADY! SPEED NERF! RUN FOR THE HILLS! |
Kerfira
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Posted - 2008.10.31 08:41:00 -
[9]
Insurance should be curtailed drastically for the simple reasons that: a. It is injecting way too much ISK into the economy (very bad) b. It acts as a floor under mineral prices (very bad) c. It makes smaller ships go unused (bad)
To still benefit newbies, it should be structured like this: T1 Frigates: Up to 100% insurance T1 Destroyers: Up to 75% insurance T1 Cruisers: Up to 50% insurance T1 Battlecruisers: Up to 25% insurance T1 Battleships: No insurance T2 ships: No insurance Capital ships: No insurance
In addition, no insurance should be paid out at all in 0.0, and it should be halved in low-sec.
Originally by: CCP Wrangler EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
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Hugh Ruka
Exploratio et Industria Morispatia
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Posted - 2008.10.31 09:30:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Bellum Eternus LOL. I can't believe I'm reading this. You guys are complaining about not enough insurance on T2 ships. If anything, all insurance should be removed completely. Losses are too easy as it is.
No, this does not seem to be his complain.
The issue is, you get insurance notifications ONLY when you open the insurance service. Means if an insurance runs out, you do not know until you access the insurance service next time.
I noticed this changed. I remember getting insurance notices automaticaly in the past. --- SIG --- CSM: your support is needed ! |
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Q429
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Posted - 2008.10.31 09:49:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Bellum Eternus LOL. I can't believe I'm reading this. You guys are complaining about not enough insurance on T2 ships. If anything, all insurance should be removed completely. Losses are too easy as it is.
I don't get it. I've agreed with a lot of your suggestions in the past, but you always seem to be a pretty reasonable guy. Maybe you're just rich, but not all of ass get bil in hauler ransoms before breakfast.
Current insurance still allows for a good amount of loss (10-15%) depending on your modules. But could someone explain why T2 insurance is crap?
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Kaben
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Posted - 2008.10.31 09:51:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Kaben on 31/10/2008 10:00:15
Originally by: Hugh Ruka
Originally by: Bellum Eternus LOL. I can't believe I'm reading this. You guys are complaining about not enough insurance on T2 ships. If anything, all insurance should be removed completely. Losses are too easy as it is.
No, this does not seem to be his complain.
The issue is, you get insurance notifications ONLY when you open the insurance service. Means if an insurance runs out, you do not know until you access the insurance service next time.
I noticed this changed. I remember getting insurance notices automaticaly in the past.
Read the second paragraph, he wants better insurance for t2. Yes, for some reason the insurance isn't sending friendly reminders (maybe an attempt at reducing server lag , next we probably won't get reminders on pos running out of fuel)
edit: @ poster above. If memmory serves me correctly t2 insurance is based of cost of building ship in mins (excluding t2 components/moon mins basically). So pretty much it covers all mins from trit-morphite (and t1 ship as it's needed to make the t2 version) and doesn't cover moon mins (that are required in making t2 components). Hope that anwsers your question.
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Deva Blackfire
D00M.
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Posted - 2008.10.31 10:01:00 -
[13]
remove insurance altogether - so using BS will be a bit riskier than "lawl t1 fit i lose 10m isk". And suddenly you will see more varied fleets...
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Hugh Ruka
Exploratio et Industria Morispatia
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Posted - 2008.10.31 10:03:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Kaben Edited by: Kaben on 31/10/2008 10:00:15
Originally by: Hugh Ruka
Originally by: Bellum Eternus LOL. I can't believe I'm reading this. You guys are complaining about not enough insurance on T2 ships. If anything, all insurance should be removed completely. Losses are too easy as it is.
No, this does not seem to be his complain.
The issue is, you get insurance notifications ONLY when you open the insurance service. Means if an insurance runs out, you do not know until you access the insurance service next time.
I noticed this changed. I remember getting insurance notices automaticaly in the past.
Read the second paragraph, he wants better insurance for t2. Yes, for some reason the insurance isn't sending friendly reminders (maybe an attempt at reducing server lag , next we probably won't get reminders on pos running out of fuel)
edit: @ poster above. If memmory serves me correctly t2 insurance is based of cost of building ship in mins (excluding t2 components/moon mins basically). So pretty much it covers all mins from trit-morphite (and t1 ship as it's needed to make the t2 version) and doesn't cover moon mins (that are required in making t2 components). Hope that anwsers your question.
I ignored his 2nd paragraph, becasue it contradicts this first one :-) and it a usual whine issue ... I see nothing wrong with current insurance, it needs minor tweaks but generaly works ok. I picked the only relevant issue he described :-))) --- SIG --- CSM: your support is needed ! |
Cpt Branko
Surge.
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Posted - 2008.10.31 10:35:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Kaben
Originally by: Bellum Eternus LOL. I can't believe I'm reading this. You guys are complaining about not enough insurance on T2 ships. If anything, all insurance should be removed completely. Losses are too easy as it is.
I can't aggree with this, t1 is not always an easy loss. The death penalty is quite harsh in eve. The t1 ship maybe somewhat fully insurable, but mods and rigs are not. I.E. If my mega gets popped the insurance will cover the ship, but mods and rigs add up. about 50mil worth in rigs alone, not counting mods. Removing t1 insurance would just lead to less people wanting to venture into low or null sec. Plus (I'll use the never boring phrase just because) "it will cause more blobage."
On the other hand t2 insurance is fine imo, people pay for that edge and that edge comes with that extra loss if it goes pop.
I'm inclined to agree with this really.
Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
Bellum Eternus
Gallente Death of Virtue
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Posted - 2008.10.31 12:44:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Q429
Originally by: Bellum Eternus LOL. I can't believe I'm reading this. You guys are complaining about not enough insurance on T2 ships. If anything, all insurance should be removed completely. Losses are too easy as it is.
I don't get it. I've agreed with a lot of your suggestions in the past, but you always seem to be a pretty reasonable guy. Maybe you're just rich, but not all of ass get bil in hauler ransoms before breakfast.
Current insurance still allows for a good amount of loss (10-15%) depending on your modules. But could someone explain why T2 insurance is crap?
That's just it. When I kill someone, I want them to lose the entire cost of the ship, not just 10-15%.
Bellum Eternus Inveniam viam aut faciam. [Vid] I M M O R T A L
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Cpt Branko
Surge.
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Posted - 2008.10.31 12:53:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Bellum Eternus
That's just it. When I kill someone, I want them to lose the entire cost of the ship, not just 10-15%.
This only benefits you by allowing you to ask for more ISK when you're ransoming people. For straight out killing them, it does not really mean much - and it does drive loss costs of larger T1 ships quite high.
Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
Deva Blackfire
D00M.
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Posted - 2008.10.31 15:40:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Cpt Branko
Originally by: Bellum Eternus
That's just it. When I kill someone, I want them to lose the entire cost of the ship, not just 10-15%.
This only benefits you by allowing you to ask for more ISK when you're ransoming people. For straight out killing them, it does not really mean much - and it does drive loss costs of larger T1 ships quite high.
And thats the point. Weak skillpoint based pilots will stop flying ravens "because FC wants BS, doesnt matter how **** they are" because after 3-4 BS losses they will feel it. Also bigger ship will become a bit more eliteist this way.
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Rexthor Hammerfists
Rage of Inferno
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Posted - 2008.10.31 16:55:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Deva Blackfire
And thats the point. Weak skillpoint based pilots will stop flying ravens "because FC wants BS, doesnt matter how **** they are" because after 3-4 BS losses they will feel it. Also bigger ship will become a bit more eliteist this way.
I totally agree with this, Insurance payouts have made the losses of t1 ships from a frig to a dread way too soft on your wallet. Individuals, corps and alliances have no problem to replace ships as it is now, only the logistics behind it are the bottleneck when keeping a war going.
Kills have to matter more then ending up looking pretty on a killboard, they should hurt and playing an important part in loosing a war other then just not being able to rat, mine or move freely around anymore.
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Boosters and PirateProfessions
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Bellum Eternus
Gallente Death of Virtue
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Posted - 2008.10.31 17:18:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Cpt Branko
Originally by: Bellum Eternus
That's just it. When I kill someone, I want them to lose the entire cost of the ship, not just 10-15%.
This only benefits you by allowing you to ask for more ISK when you're ransoming people. For straight out killing them, it does not really mean much - and it does drive loss costs of larger T1 ships quite high.
Either way it's a win for me. High ship costs benefit people like myself, who kill 100-200 BS for every BS loss, and it's bad news for all the losers out there that lose 10-20 BS for every kill they get.
I'm sick of killing someone's ship and then seeing them show up in another one 20 minutes later because it was fully insured.
Bellum Eternus Inveniam viam aut faciam. [Vid] I M M O R T A L
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