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bldyannoyed
Killed In Action
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Posted - 2008.10.31 19:08:00 -
[1]
The Muninn is a very poor close range brawler in comparison to any other HAC and the worst sniper out of the bunch as well.
The simple fact is it has worse DPS, worse tracking (despite a bonus) and worse effective total range (despite a bonus) than a Zealot. Comparisons with an Eagle are tricker, but the Eagle has the 200KM range trick up its sleeve which means it can always find a niche if you look hard enough.
The major reason it has all these problems is because of its poor slot layout. From a sniping perspective there is nothing of value that can be put in those last 2 high slots. 3 mid 5 low means you always have to compromise between range and damage. With insufficient PG for any Weapon rigs, and the mids being MWD and 2x SB you will only realistically be able to fit 5 weapon upgrades. Both the Eagle and Zealot can fit 6, and the Zealot can actually fit 6 plus 2 weapon rigs without any significant compromise, though post stacking change there will be little point.
With a 5/4/6 slot layout it would be the best artillery sniper it can. MWD plus 3 sensor boosters for fast lock even at range, 3 gyro, 3 TE. Even set like that it would still have shorter range, worse tracking and less dps than a Zealot, but it would at least have SOMETHING going for it. High alpha plus good scan res at range and no fitting compromise to achieve it would at least make it usable again, even if it still wouldnt ultimately be the best HAC sniper.
And as for close range, I still don't see it competing with other HAC's, but mebbe dual web, 3 slot buffer and 3 damage mods would be enough to at least make it worth considering compared to a Rupture or Cane, cos atm an AC fit Muninn is just a comedy kill mail.
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bldyannoyed
Killed In Action
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Posted - 2008.10.31 22:12:00 -
[2]
Originally by: RedSplat Forgive me if i am wrong but wouldn't it make more sense to have the vaga with bonus' that make it a good arty boat able to dictate range with its speed advantage and have the Munin be a dual dmg bonus AC gankboat?
Ummmmmmm.
For a Sniper dictating range isnt what matters. Snipers start off in position (or try to) and do as much damage at that range as they possibly can as quickly as they can for as long as they can.
The fact that a Vaga cant actually fit a rack of 720 II's kinda locks it out of this role.
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bldyannoyed
Killed In Action
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Posted - 2008.10.31 22:25:00 -
[3]
The issue everyone has here is that the Muninn can't do ANYTHING.
The Vagabond is currently and (may) still continue to be an effective AC skirmish fighter.
What most of us would like to see is the Muninn being good at, well, anything tbh. Atm it's a purpoer built (but built badly) Artillery platform. Thats's good. The Minnie HAC lineup doesnt need 2 AC boats.
It would be nice if it was actually a good sniper though. And it isn't hard to achieve. It doesnt require the reworking of the Vagabond. It just needs to get rid of those ****ing useless utility high slots. It doesnt even need a PG boost. With AWU 5 5x720II and a 10MN MWD II fit fine.
It's just those bloody silly high slots.
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bldyannoyed
Killed In Action
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Posted - 2008.10.31 22:36:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Appletwoc I kind of like fitting 650s, a MWD, a medium neut, and a cloak on her. I likes my utility slots.
Yeah, but what exaclty do you do with 650's at 12km neut range?
Just fitting random conflicting junk in high slots does not make them worth having.
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bldyannoyed
Killed In Action
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Posted - 2008.10.31 22:56:00 -
[5]
Ah yes. The ability to neut the capacitor (if it's dumb enough to get that close) of one frigate makes up for it sucking in absolutely every other way conceivable.
Im enlightened, and will immediately stop flying my Zealots and Eagles forthwith.
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bldyannoyed
Killed In Action
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Posted - 2008.10.31 23:01:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Lokius Ahgamemnon If you knew how to use it...you would love it. It's a shame really that not many people know how to use it. It makes me sad
LOL.
So what is the correct way of using it?
Bearing in mind that before the many and varied indirect nerfs came in I used to be an avid fan of the Muninn. Its always been crap as an AC boat but it used to do damn well as an alpha strike insta gib machine.
Not any ore tho.
And now I can fly a Zealot, which does LITERALLY EVERYTHING better, I see absolutely no reason to ever undock ina Muninn ever again.
So come on.
How should I use a Muninn?
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bldyannoyed
Killed In Action
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Posted - 2008.10.31 23:07:00 -
[7]
6/3/6 would be perfectly acceptable.
Okay, as a sniper it wouldn't be as good as 5/4/6 but it would at least be an improvement.
Honestly though, what do you want the util slot for on a sniper?
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bldyannoyed
Killed In Action
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Posted - 2008.10.31 23:16:00 -
[8]
Okay, point conceded on the cloak
But anything else on along range setup is stinky when you could be using the slot for another damage mod or sensor booster or something.
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bldyannoyed
Killed In Action
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Posted - 2008.10.31 23:41:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Fissu A bit of a noob ramble but I think the Muninn is the only HAC balanced right. I think HACs shouldnt completly outclass their cruiser like most do. If you wanna use your money to have an edge go ahaed but you should be faring worse isk/performance wise. This is not true for all HACs except muninn, if you re flying a ishtar for example you re getting much more bang for your money than the vexor... its a great investment.
I think the game would be richer if it was that way.
So yeah dont buff the muninn.. nerf all other T2 ehehe
Yay for trolls.
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bldyannoyed
Killed In Action
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Posted - 2008.11.01 01:22:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Lokius Ahgamemnon Sit at 0.0 gate camps and pop pods and frigs all day and ***** all kill mails?
Whoopty ****ing doo.
Can do it better in a Zealot, and a Zealot can actually be useful in a gang engagement too.
Wait.
Was that it?
Was that what we were all too stupid to get?
Pop pods and frigs?
LOL
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bldyannoyed
Killed In Action
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Posted - 2008.11.01 16:42:00 -
[11]
You sir, are clearly an idiot.
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bldyannoyed
Killed In Action
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Posted - 2008.11.01 17:06:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Zalathar
Originally by: Janus Ovellian
Originally by: bldyannoyed You sir, are clearly an idiot.
I second this.
If this is directed at me: Why thank you, glad you think so sir.
Not you, the guy thats insisting the Muninn is fine cos it can alpha strike PODS.
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bldyannoyed
Killed In Action
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Posted - 2008.11.01 17:58:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Pac SubCom Maybe we should consider what more than one Muninn (or arty ship) can alpha, 'beta' or 'gamma' strike.
Any number of Muninns will have less alpha damage than equal number of Hurricanes. So we can consider it all we like, it doesn't stop the Muninn being garbage.
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bldyannoyed
Killed In Action
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Posted - 2008.11.01 19:54:00 -
[14]
Lokius, you're either trolling or you utterly fail.
I've been playing this game for over 4 years now so by your own argument nothing you say is relevant.
and the tracking of Zealot vs Muninn isn't as close as someone claimed. Remember, Muninn only has 5 lows. It doesnt have 3 damage 3 tracking mods. The Zealot does. So however you swing it the numbers go further in the Zealots favour.
I have used both ships pretty extensively. I used the Muninn years ago before it had the numerous PG buffs and whatnot. When I first got one three was no AWU skill and its base PG was only sufficient for THREE 720's.
It's been buffed beyond recognition since then and for a while, pre HP buffs and script changes specifically, it was actually okay.
Now though it's horrible.
At 100KM plus ranges it simply cannot compete with a Zealot or Eagle. LOL at whoever reckoned the ability to project Warrior II's to 100KM it someway makes up for the fact that a ship with 4 turret bonuses has the worst turret performance of just about any HAC.
I used to use it to warp in at 30KM from a blob, fast lock and insta-gib a cepter with RF EMP and get out again.It wasn't a guaranteed tactic, if 2 guns missed they had a good chance of surviving and with a 6.5 sec rof there was no way i was hanging around for another volley. But guess what? Now I do it in a Pulse Zealot. It doesnt instagib cepters, but it does kill them in 2 volleys, even with scorch. And as it has a sub 2 sec rof with over-heat I can kill a target in the time it takes me to align and warp.
And as for actual fleet performance at range? It sucks, plain and simple. As an anti support fleet sniper (a very useful role) it is outclassed by the Zealot and Eagle in every practical way. The Zealot simply has better turret performance across the board, and the Eagle makes up for DPS and tracking shortcomings by being at over 200KM, where tracking becomes pretty much irrelevant and it is out of range of basically everything.
I can't understand why people want the Muninn to remain as a sucky ass ship.
It's never gonna get a stupid role bonus or 400% alpha buff at the expense of RoF or anything else equally absurd. It will only ever get a slot change or a PG boost (which it doesn't need).
Atm the only thing it does well is save the Deimos from the title of Worst HAC, a job it does admirably well.
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