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Wrangler Al
Caldari Shadow's Hunters Arcane Alliance
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Posted - 2008.11.03 15:21:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Wrangler Al on 03/11/2008 15:24:56
The current DD solution is quite frankly overpowered and lacks any tactical edge as it maked Titans solo Pawn mobiles and i'm prety sure everyone in EVE is against those.
So I say scrap the current format and modify it slightly to behave as a directional weapon rather than an omni-directional 'I-Win' effect.
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So the Aurora Ominae becomes the Aurora Cannon
- Emits a gigantic antimatter stream, capable of obliterating almost any target and causing extensive damage to targets near-by.
This Masive partical cannon would hit the target with 40k Hp Thermal and explode like a Scorch Bomb - Radiates an omnidirectional pulse upon detonation that causes 6.875 Hp thermal damage to surrounding vessels.
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Gjallarhorn (Emphasis on Horn)
Righteous fury given form, this titanic ordnance rains a firestorm of destruction down upon its targets.
A masive Shell Fired from the Ragnarok's bowels that rips through its target like a flaming comet doing 40k Hp explosive damage to its target and then emplodes like a Shrapnel bomb Radiating an omnidirectional pulse upon detonation that causes 6.875 Hp explosive damage to surrounding vessels.
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Judgement
A beam of the Lord's holy light, designed to put sinners in their proper place.
The largest Mobile Beam laser in the galaxy. this weapon literally fries the target causing 40k HP EM damage before exploding like an Electron Bomb radiating an omnidirectional pulse upon detonation that causes 6.875 Hp EM damage to surrounding vessels.
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Oblivion
Creates a gargantuan particle storm capable of efficiently wiping the field clean of enemies.
As the Caldari predominantly use missiles, the oblivion missile is the daddy of them all - larger than a friget in size with its own warp drive this weapon fires out at 1 AU before smashing into its target causing 40k Hp Kinetic damage and radiating an omnidirectional cussion wave upon detonation, that causes 6.875 Hp kinetic damage to surrounding vessels.
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What do you think
Positive/contructive comments, and who knows the devs might actually listen to this one
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Straight Chillen
Gallente Solar Wind
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Posted - 2008.11.03 16:28:00 -
[2]
Your Joking right? A dread does more dmg then that.
Please resize image to a maximum of 400 x 120, not exceeding 24000 bytes. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
procurement specialist
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Posted - 2008.11.03 17:15:00 -
[3]
what are you changing the cooldown to? are titan's going to able to equip multiples of these? 40khp is still not an anti capital weapon but a 2 shot to kill 1 bs weapon.
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Wrangler Al
Caldari Shadow's Hunters Arcane Alliance
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Posted - 2008.11.03 18:03:00 -
[4]
Damage can be changed but I was just keeping to the current damage done by the DD as they stand...
Maby double it to 80k and a 12k blast
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procurement specialist
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Posted - 2008.11.03 19:35:00 -
[5]
I wouldn't bother with secondary damage. make titans able to equip several dd, make the cool down 1-3 minutes. make them single target and let them be affected by sig radius. that will make them best against bs at the lowest and be primarily for other capitals. Then offer titan sized smart bombs out to 20k that are 1/4 or less than normal DD to clear off fighters. The HIC can still scram them from outside that.
this would mean titans can sb and destroy all the frigates actually on them. (come on guys frigates should be swatted away by titans) and put their empahsis on slaughtering the enemy cap fleet instead of the enemy support fleet. then support fleets fight it out while the cap ships fight it out at the same time.
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Wrangler Al
Caldari Shadow's Hunters Arcane Alliance
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Posted - 2008.11.03 19:40:00 -
[6]
Well the blast was just to enphasize the power of the hit... but anything to get these beast to actually be in a fleet fight, rather than doing hit and run... thay are too cool a ship to be that
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Straight Chillen
Gallente Solar Wind
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Posted - 2008.11.03 21:16:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Straight Chillen on 03/11/2008 21:15:55
Originally by: Wrangler Al Well the blast was just to enphasize the power of the hit... but anything to get these beast to actually be in a fleet fight, rather than doing hit and run... thay are too cool a ship to be that
This will do nothing to bring titans into a fleet fight. They simply do not have the Tank NOR the DPS to be a significant addition to the fleet. Thats why they are used the way they are. Drive bys, and bridges.
At the very very minimum it would require the titan being able to fit a siege module, So that it has some kind of survivability. Considering your average titan dies to a cap fleet in less then a couple of minutes. Please resize image to a maximum of 400 x 120, not exceeding 24000 bytes. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
Ocih
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Posted - 2008.11.03 21:38:00 -
[8]
Any time a nerf revokes skills, it's a good chance it won't happen. DD Ops skill would need to be redefined.
I'd rather have a way to counter them. One that maybe required you to train DD Ops 4 to even unlock. A T2 HIC battleship that could nullify Doomsday devices in a Sys? Just an idea.. |
procurement specialist
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Posted - 2008.11.03 21:57:00 -
[9]
a cheap counter would make them useless as everyone would bring 2-3 cheap counters and nobody could ever dd again.
instead we need to make the titan into a capital fighter instead of having it focus on killing the support fleet. it reverses everything up to that point in eve that you can't hit lower than 1 size below yourself.
yeah titans should have a minimum of pos shield hp. they should not go down to less than a 20 sieged dreads.
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Ocih
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Posted - 2008.11.03 22:12:00 -
[10]
This may balance itself out in time.
I have said and I am sure others have in the past, Titans will swamp 0.0 sec in time. I don't know if this is even possible but there are gang bonuses on Titans. Each according to Race. The Leviathan has a 7.5% shield to gang bonus per level for example. So 4 Leviathans with Titan Pilots trained to 4 would give a Titan squad 1.3 multiplier shield amounts, x 4.. in theory.
350K shield assume Engineering skill 5, 437,500. 4 Leviathan gang bonus means 1.3 multiplier, add another titan, add another titan, add another titan. Titans fleeted like such would have 1,249,543.75 shield. I don't know if this is how the system works. I haven't put 4 Leviathans in a fleet to find out. If this is actually the way it works, tank up the wazoo.
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Revan Orillion
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Posted - 2008.11.04 01:36:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Revan Orillion on 04/11/2008 01:39:53 Edited by: Revan Orillion on 04/11/2008 01:38:26 Keep the current DD, but make this weapon vastly more powerful. Something like 450k damage per shot, with the ability to equip 1 per titan with a hour long cooldown time, or 2 if you do away with the DD module. So either 1 DD and this Doom Cannon, or 2 DCs.
This makes it possible for a titan equiped with 2 DCs to kill another titan instantly, as well as giving them the ability to kill any other capital in the game with one shot. This would balance out do to the titans newfound versitility and vulnerability. They could be used as sniper ships for fleet cap kills, but are also vulnerable to cloaked titan stealth attacks. Add the fact that even at best they could only kill two caps once every hour, and they would still be vulnerable to dread fleets.
Gives titans a cool boost, while making them more vulnerable. Further, the sheer size of these weapons prevent lock ons of any ship smaller than a capital, and they can only damage one target at a time. No splash damage. Non-Cap killing is the for the DD.
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procurement specialist
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Posted - 2008.11.04 02:37:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Ocih This may balance itself out in time.
I have said and I am sure others have in the past, Titans will swamp 0.0 sec in time. I don't know if this is even possible but there are gang bonuses on Titans. Each according to Race. The Leviathan has a 7.5% shield to gang bonus per level for example. So 4 Leviathans with Titan Pilots trained to 4 would give a Titan squad 1.3 multiplier shield amounts, x 4.. in theory.
350K shield assume Engineering skill 5, 437,500. 4 Leviathan gang bonus means 1.3 multiplier, add another titan, add another titan, add another titan. Titans fleeted like such would have 1,249,543.75 shield. I don't know if this is how the system works. I haven't put 4 Leviathans in a fleet to find out. If this is actually the way it works, tank up the wazoo.
only the highest modifier counts. only the bigesst 37.5% counts, then 15% if they have the siege warfare mindlink.
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Wrangler Al
Arcane Alliance
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Posted - 2008.11.04 18:03:00 -
[13]
Liking the positive comments here
I dont think having a DD and a cannon would be good but if the Titan can equip 2-4 of these bad boys it would certainly make them more fun...
And it would bring them out from the shadows, and into cap fleet action
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Clansworth
Burning Sky Labs Libertas Fidelitas
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Posted - 2008.11.04 21:30:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Wrangler Al Liking the positive comments here
I dont think having a DD and a cannon would be good but if the Titan can equip 2-4 of these bad boys it would certainly make them more fun...
And it would bring them out from the shadows, and into cap fleet action
I certainly don't see them having more than one 'Doomsday Cannon' on board, as, if you think about it, the ship is kinda built around the doomsday. A single DDC though, with a somewhat useful cycle time, would still be pretty impressive. I kinda envision the amount of time it took he Deathstar to power up it's BFG.
I do like the single-shot+splash damage idea, and its something that used to be in game (the old torpedoes did splash damage), so it could definitely work. I actually kinda like a decrementing random hopping cascade type effect though. Take a look at the 'secret weapon' used at the end of the Empyrean Age trailer. I imagine that jumping from ship to ship, causing some random chaos in the opposing fleet. |
Seishomaru
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Posted - 2008.11.05 01:22:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Seishomaru on 05/11/2008 01:23:28 The idea of the DD as a single directional weapon would require damage on the scale of 2 Million per shot.
Also would require titans to have HUGE increase in their tanking capability to stay in battlefield. A pack of 20 dreads can chew any titan. But this would be far better than the stupidity of nano titans. |
Ezekiel Sulastin
Gallente Art of War Exalted.
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Posted - 2008.11.05 03:12:00 -
[16]
If you could also make titans into gigantic transforming mecha that could focus a shield on the tip of one arm to punch through enemy ships and release hellfire inside of them ... whoops, wrong universe >.>
I would say that if you were to make a single doomsday cannon the damage output would have to be high enough to vaporize a big target in one shot - something like a dreadnought + AOE burst. 40-80k won't even take out a battleship fitted against today's DDs ... it'd be one heck of a rebalancing consideration, but might make it Not Suicide to be near a titan if not in a BS. Who knows whether it'd be better or worse >.> ----
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Revan Orillion
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Posted - 2008.11.05 03:25:00 -
[17]
Alright, how about the DDC be a secondary module for the DD? They are the same weapon, however where the DD does omnidirectional damage, the DDC takes that same attack and focuses it on one target for an instakill regardless of tank?
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procurement specialist
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Posted - 2008.11.05 14:13:00 -
[18]
titans shouldn't instapop other titans.
titans instapoping dreads should be limited to at most 1 a minute.
titans need much more tank. They are the size of planets and should act like it. Serious rep bonus amounts may be in order. Like 50% or more a level.
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Revan Orillion
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Posted - 2008.11.05 15:31:00 -
[19]
Originally by: procurement specialist titans shouldn't instapop other titans.
titans instapoping dreads should be limited to at most 1 a minute.
titans need much more tank. They are the size of planets and should act like it. Serious rep bonus amounts may be in order. Like 50% or more a level.
How much damage is enough? I agree that instakills are out, but what damage range should it have? Something between 750k and 1.5m?
One a minute is way to fast, as the DDC would be like the DD, except concentrated. Does anyone know how many dreads it would take to kill a titan in one minute, so as to avoid excessive casualties?
I dunno. It takes about twenty or so dreads to kill a titan, and can you imagine what twenty or so dreads can do to a planet? Although it would be nice to have tougher titans, they are already pretty freaking tough. After all, no ship except a titan go go one-on-one with one. Or even five-on-one.
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Tyson Gallane
Caldari Political Warfare Executive
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Posted - 2008.11.05 17:01:00 -
[20]
I think it would be amazing if the Titan had a CONTINUOUS EFFECT weapon that does massive DPS to a limited number of targets (say three at a time - all selected by the Titaneer). Basically, the Titan pilot locks up a few dreads and switches on the doomsday weapon which then starts to EAT those guys up. They will probably scream on comms that they're being gobbled - giving local support a chance to try to keep the dreads alive with capital reppers - otherwise they are going down. Just a matter of time.
Think Unicron from the original Transformers the Movie cartoon. :D
T.
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procurement specialist
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Posted - 2008.11.05 17:09:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Revan Orillion
Originally by: procurement specialist titans shouldn't instapop other titans.
titans instapoping dreads should be limited to at most 1 a minute.
titans need much more tank. They are the size of planets and should act like it. Serious rep bonus amounts may be in order. Like 50% or more a level.
How much damage is enough? I agree that instakills are out, but what damage range should it have? Something between 750k and 1.5m?
One a minute is way to fast, as the DDC would be like the DD, except concentrated. Does anyone know how many dreads it would take to kill a titan in one minute, so as to avoid excessive casualties?
I dunno. It takes about twenty or so dreads to kill a titan, and can you imagine what twenty or so dreads can do to a planet? Although it would be nice to have tougher titans, they are already pretty freaking tough. After all, no ship except a titan go go one-on-one with one. Or even five-on-one.
A titan costs 40x as much as a dread. yes it should tank them and be able to vaporize them. I still think the most possible would be 1 a minute or you can fit say 5 DC modules and they have a 10 minute cooldown. This would prevent the use of smartbombs to get rid of fighter though. Titans are meant to be flown in fleets so i dont see how a one on one comparison really applies.
Originally by: Tyson Gallane I think it would be amazing if the Titan had a CONTINUOUS EFFECT weapon that does massive DPS to a limited number of targets (say three at a time - all selected by the Titaneer). Basically, the Titan pilot locks up a few dreads and switches on the doomsday weapon which then starts to EAT those guys up. They will probably scream on comms that they're being gobbled - giving local support a chance to try to keep the dreads alive with capital reppers - otherwise they are going down. Just a matter of time.
Think Unicron from the original Transformers the Movie cartoon. :D
T.
make the dc not use ammo, have an rof of 1, and do 5k base damage. their is your continuous effect.
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Tyson Gallane
Caldari Political Warfare Executive
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Posted - 2008.11.05 17:56:00 -
[22]
Originally by: procurement specialist
make the dc not use ammo, have an rof of 1, and do 5k base damage. their is your continuous effect.
Heh. Agreed.
Another thought: My ideal mental image of a Titan in a fleet battle is similar to that of the Death Star in ROTJ. Big bad thing in the background, periodically unleashing epic pwn on an enemy fleet vessel. "OMG, that thing's OPERATIONAL! "
T.
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Wrangler Al
Arcane Alliance
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Posted - 2008.11.06 22:43:00 -
[23]
I too have seen the weapon that jumped from ship to ship and wondered if it was a furure development, or something that was replaced.
its a shame torps dont do splash damage anymore :P
It does seem that most people agree that a DDC is a good idea, and that it should be an extremely powerful weapon (like a deathstar shot), one to be afraid of... but still alow you to attack with hope.
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Daevonar
Minmatar Starfish Operating Syndicate
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Posted - 2008.11.06 23:56:00 -
[24]
Meh, I've never understood why people like the idea of insta-kill weapons outside of PvE, its just makes things soooo boring. Just because its you doing the insta kill one day, doesn't mean it wont be you joining a fight and going home agains straight away the next time... it's just dull for both sides tbh, whjats the point of encouraging player vs. player fighting when that fighting only lasts for one shot. Dae.
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Col Callahan
Caldari Oberon Incorporated Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2008.11.07 01:24:00 -
[25]
I do not support this idea at all. Its terrible and not well thought out at all. please come back when you have thought about this concept some more and have a better idea instead of posting the first thing you can come up with after 10mins of emo rage. _
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Wrangler Al
Arcane Alliance
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Posted - 2008.11.07 01:40:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Col Callahan I do not support this idea at all. Its terrible and not well thought out at all. please come back when you have thought about this concept some more and have a better idea instead of posting the first thing you can come up with after 10mins of emo rage.
, mr troll didnt even read the positive discussion going on here
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Tyson Gallane
Caldari Political Warfare Executive
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Posted - 2008.11.08 11:32:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Daevonar Meh, I've never understood why people like the idea of insta-kill weapons outside of PvE, its just makes things soooo boring. Just because its you doing the insta kill one day, doesn't mean it wont be you joining a fight and going home agains straight away the next time... it's just dull for both sides tbh, whjats the point of encouraging player vs. player fighting when that fighting only lasts for one shot.
Yeah I agree that they shouldn't instapop even dreads.
One of my fevered dreams went like this...
Fleet Battle. Titan on one side has THREE doomsday cannons. The titaneer focuses each of these on a different dread (focusing all on one dread does not work). Each DC unleashes epic power which will overload the tank of a dread in 20-40 seconds. All three dread pilots scream in comms that they are being chewed to bits. Nearby carriers and RR battleships scramble to get repairs on the targetted dreads, but as they are all in a hurry (and its hard to see who is repping who) they focus unevenly across the group:
10 reppers go for Dread 1, 4 reppers on Dread 2 and zero reppers on Dread 3.
From the defenders point of view, D1 is weathering the firestorm nicely. D2 is going down, but its going to take a while. D3 is destroyed in approx 30 seconds. In that time though, the defenders start to reorganise. They name three of the repper pilots on D1 and set them onto D2. Now with 7 reppers each, both those dreads are holding against the incoming damage.
Then - after a minute cooldown - the Titan's 3rd cannon comes online again...
This is of course VASTLY OVERSIMPLIFIED. It even seems on the surface that the titan is expending a lot of energy to kill just one dread.
Then we have to figure in the rest of the fleet. The titan was monopolising the attention of 14 reppers and several dread pilots. Those dreads that are weathering the storm will almost certainly be declared Primary and Secondary, and will go down quite fast when the rest of the titan's fleet focuses on them. What if both sides bring titans?? What if one side brings several titans??
Quite simply, I am in favour of any plan which changes titans from something that turns up and goes KABLOOIEE!!! once an hour, to something which has a reason to stay and fight with its own fleet. You can see by their artwork that was what CCP had in mind when they made them.
T.
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Wrangler Al
Arcane Alliance
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Posted - 2008.11.09 14:30:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Tyson Gallane
Originally by: Daevonar Meh, I've never understood why people like the idea of insta-kill weapons outside of PvE, its just makes things soooo boring.quote]
Yeah I agree that they shouldn't instapop even dreads.
Quite simply, I am in favour of any plan which changes titans from something that turns up and goes KABLOOIEE!!! once an hour, to something which has a reason to stay and fight with its own fleet.
I agree they should be used in fleets, and offer a positive tactical function, rather than the current 'I Win' button...
Any more or positive comments
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Calduin
Caldari Association of Commonwealth Enterprises B.L.A.C.K.
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Posted - 2008.11.30 23:20:00 -
[29]
how about making titan use smart bombs instead of DD, change skill to 200% range increase per lvl of titan, 100% damage increase per level of titan, so at lvl 5 one large smartbomb does 1500 damage at 60km. full rack does 12k damage per 7.5 sec adjust damage/range increase as needed. could be 400% range each level for 120km or 800% for 240km like DD, maybe add in extra large smart bombs. at least this way titan would have to stay on the field instead of DD and warp away. and side effect of making missiles and drones potentially useless with titan on field. may even be more powerful than DD cause with my suggested numbers it'd do 60k damage same as low lvl titan skill every 45 sec, a titan currently can only do that once an hr.
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RexZor
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Posted - 2008.12.02 12:12:00 -
[30]
This is a pretty interessting discussion which IMHO is worthwhile.
I do think Titans should be fielded against fleets of BS and Dreads. Now everybody is talking about the damage a titan needs to do but I think there could be another solution.
Disabeling is something i thought about. Let's say a DDC has a primary damage X (hmmm why the X you say) but has a type of secondary damage that focusses on the Heat of a vessel. With the Heat damage you can disable a vessels high, Mid and lowslots. Which would in effect leave the other vessel crippeled on the battlefield. Thus reducing it's damage output to none.
This disabeling may take up to 3 - 4 minutes depending on the target vessels capability to repair the damaged mods and the fitted "heat sinks".
my 0.02 isk |
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