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Stovetop Cookie
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Posted - 2008.11.04 04:16:00 -
[1]
I am considering high-sec hauling as an option to make money. What would be some good ways to go about this? Considering both a Prorator and Impel, loaded with T2 Cargohold Expanders, the Impel holds approximately 4 times more cargo but is 1/3 the speed of the Prorator.
I am thinking charging by the jump and by what ship I use. Perhaps I should come up with a formula of some sort such as:
Prorator: 10,000 ISK per jump for the first ten jumps, 7,500 ISK thereafter. Impel: probably 3 to 4 times the cost of using the Prorator.
Or would it be better to be less complicated and have a flat-rate, 10,000 ISK per jump? Highsec restricted, of course.
Do you think 10,000 ISK per jump is too much to charge? Too little? What are your takes on this?
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Securitas Protector
Final Conflict UK Liberty.
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Posted - 2008.11.04 06:06:00 -
[2]
You could probably safely charge double that...freighters charge 1 mil per jump OFTEN, but you carry much less. This is, however, offset by the extreme slow speed of freighters...so maybe even triple.
20,000 ISK per jump seems like a safe bet though, and then 13000-15000 after the first 10.
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Stovetop Cookie
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Posted - 2008.11.04 06:16:00 -
[3]
Sounds like a good way to start. I was reading in other threads about charging by the amount of volume to be transported, but that doesn't work to me because whether I haul a full load or only one cubic meter I still tie up the transport ship.
As to compare with a freighter, the benefit of speed versus reduced capacity can work in a specialized area, say players moving their base of operations across the region(s). I'm sure that goes on all the time. Assuming it's mainly ship fittings and a few minerals of an individual to be moved, a transport should be more than enough for the job.
Combat 'Extravegant Justification' hits Boss -0.0 damage Combat 'Refusal to Grant Raise' hits you -434.0 damage |
Athre
Minmatar The Higher Standard
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Posted - 2008.11.05 00:30:00 -
[4]
If you run different regions you can still do some decent trips in high sec. I've a few corp names I watch for. They put up orders in many systems and I pull the Hi sec and leave the low sec.
The only trouble you may run up against at first is capital for collateral. Oh and you might want to keep a shuttle on the Impel, so you can quickly look at a few regions contracts at once (hoping quickly over a few jumps vs warping the Impel everywhere
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Kitchie
Gallente Kitchie's Logistics and Marketing Corp
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Posted - 2008.11.05 01:12:00 -
[5]
You can make a decent living from hauling but as Athre says, you need a good amount of capital for collateral - 500 Million ISK is probably adequate to start off.
Although charging by the number of jumps makes the most sense, most courier jobs are actually priced as a percentage of collateral, with the norm being 1-2% of collateral as reward. If the job is between trade hubs (Jita, Oursulaert, Amarr, Hek, Rens) the rewards are usuallly a bit lower.
The majority of the good jobs tend to be either to or from Jita so you'd probably want to base yourself there.
Good luck!
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Cheopis
Ardishapur Ammunition and More
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Posted - 2008.11.05 09:48:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Stovetop Cookie I am considering high-sec hauling as an option to make money. What would be some good ways to go about this? Considering both a Prorator and Impel, loaded with T2 Cargohold Expanders, the Impel holds approximately 4 times more cargo but is 1/3 the speed of the Prorator.
I am thinking charging by the jump and by what ship I use. Perhaps I should come up with a formula of some sort such as:
Prorator: 10,000 ISK per jump for the first ten jumps, 7,500 ISK thereafter. Impel: probably 3 to 4 times the cost of using the Prorator.
Or would it be better to be less complicated and have a flat-rate, 10,000 ISK per jump? Highsec restricted, of course.
Do you think 10,000 ISK per jump is too much to charge? Too little? What are your takes on this?
Bud, if you want to charge 10k per highsec jump I will run you into the ground :)
Send me an evemail, I can set up to 81 contracts, and will happily keep you trucking all day long :P
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Palava
Substantial Logistics
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Posted - 2008.11.05 20:47:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Palava on 05/11/2008 20:47:53 When setting up a courier contract (from an employers point of view) I take 2 things into consideration: - distance - volume
I usually pay 50k to 100k per jump (high-sec only), or 1% collateral. It also depends which ship the freight demands, smaller than industrial, indy, bigger than industrial. Small goods I pay per jump, medium per volume and distance, and large/high-collateral freight per percentage. I want to ensure that my goods are moved as fast as possible, and my margins allow generous payment (if it is generous at all, at least I think so ;) ).
I would really like to hear some opinions from regular hauler about their daily trucker-life :)
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Danari
Syncore
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Posted - 2008.11.05 21:18:00 -
[8]
I routinely offer contracts that pay oh about 100k + 50k per jump + 1% of collateral and it usually takes about a day for them to get picked up, which suggests there may be contracts out there that are more attractive. Have you investigated contracts for opportunities?
Oh, and 2-boxing with an alt, and speed fitting a blockade runner that can reburn the gate (HICs will smoke you if you try to run) would open up low-sec running which can be very lucrative. Nothing like the adrenaline burn of a quarter-bil cargo with sniper bs trying to one-shot you on your way back out to make your day a bit more lively
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Kitchie
Gallente Kitchie's Logistics and Marketing Corp
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Posted - 2008.11.06 02:03:00 -
[9]
Speed of delivery is a problem. The shortest delivery time allowed is 24 hours and there is no incentive for a hauler to do a job quickly. In fact the incentive is to hang on to a job for a while, hoping that more will come up going to the same location.
It would be nice if there was a Bonus option that the contracter could set for deliveries done within a certain time.
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Ambo
State Protectorate
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Posted - 2008.11.06 08:43:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Kitchie Speed of delivery is a problem. The shortest delivery time allowed is 24 hours and there is no incentive for a hauler to do a job quickly. In fact the incentive is to hang on to a job for a while, hoping that more will come up going to the same location.
It would be nice if there was a Bonus option that the contracter could set for deliveries done within a certain time.
That would be nice. These days I'm not too bothered about speed of delivery but I used to really need stuff moved ASAP and an agent mission style time bonus on courier contracts would have been very welcome.
My formula for working out reward has changed a lot over the last year but I think I've finally hit a sweet spot that means the contracts get done reasonably quickly and I'm not paying way over the odds.
Reward = 0.17% of collateral per jumps + 0.0012% of collateral per 100 m3 + 1% of collateral for going through low sec --------------------------------------
Trader? Investor? Just want to track your finances? Check out EMMA |
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Athre
Minmatar The Higher Standard
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Posted - 2008.11.07 04:57:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Ambo
That would be nice. These days I'm not too bothered about speed of delivery but I used to really need stuff moved ASAP and an agent mission style time bonus on courier contracts would have been very welcome.
Yeah I dont mind running your stuff when I'm in the area. (Hi Sec only)
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Trading Bunnz
Equatorial Industires Dark Taboo
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Posted - 2008.11.07 15:11:00 -
[12]
As someone that makes extensive use of outsourced haulers, all I have to say is you need to be proactive with anyone that regularly offers you contracts. Talk to them, come to an arrangement that meets their needs better than the public contract system.
In many cases, the in game courier system is remarkably ineffectual. When I have 3m/m3 of stuff to haul out of jita, I'll be stuffed if I'm going to sit there and create 25/6 courier contracts and work out collateral splits and rewards across those all. I want someone who I have a pre-existing trust with to just take my stuff and deliver it. The only way to establish that level of trust for a newcomer tho is to do those public runs.
I dont honestly think most people who do low volume hauls will go to the effort to "hunt around" for someone to do them. They'll create a public contract, leave it, and wait for delivery. If it doesn't deliver or is time critical, they'll spam it in local for a while perhaps, give it to a friend to run or just run it themselves. Its probably a rarity that they read forum adds or whatever.
The exception would be those looking to outsource the empire high sec leg of logistics chains, when quite the reverse holds true and they will aggressively talk to people offering freighter services. But unlikely to talk to a person providing Impel services.
This is why I say you really want to build a relationship with the people creating the contracts. That way lies wealth. The ease that outsourcing the high sec empire leg of logistics provides to those of us in the logistics game is worth FAR MORE than people charge for it. I've found some freighter pilots prepared to work for 200k/j.
To risk a hull worth around 800m and whatever the value of the cargo is. I mean, the risk assessment here is madness. At that price, you (the hauler) is betting that you will manage 4,000 jumps (what? 200 round trip runs from jita<>amarr?), just to pay for the hull, without covering cost of collateral or actually generating a profit.
Even paying way above market for my freighter services, I still feel like I'm cheating these people. Luckily they don't feel the same way and I do bribe them off every now and then with surprise bonuses. :) FRPB Shares in Default |
Vall Kor
Minmatar Interstellar Missions Support Group
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Posted - 2008.11.07 15:56:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Vall Kor on 07/11/2008 15:57:05 I've been working public contracts. You can make some decent money doing this, and it helps build up your client list. Just do the contracts quickly, and people will love you for it.
- Interstellar Missions Support Group -
Total Cargo Space Available is 11,000m3 (more coming soon!) Based in Hek - No Minimum Jumps!! - Never a set up fee! |
Dax Ee'nnach
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.11.07 21:35:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Trading Bunnz As someone that makes extensive use of outsourced haulers, all I have to say is you need to be proactive with anyone that regularly offers you contracts. Talk to them, come to an arrangement that meets their needs better than the public contract system.
Thanks for this bit of advice, Bunnz. I've only recently got into Indys and I like the idea of around the galaxy. I didn't know if traders would find value in making arrangements with a regular hauler in this game or if the contract system was all that was needed. It is good to hear that a "trusted hauler" relationship is something to strive for. I guess there is something in this game for every taste. Again, thnx.
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Antar Kengis
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Posted - 2008.11.15 18:08:00 -
[15]
My opinion, don't Solo hauling as a general career is a dead end business - firstly it is quite often that the risk will outweigh the return absurdly - second its a dead end career - u train to indys then to transports in what a few months thats it - thirdly if ure already thinking about it... it will take u forever to get to a freighter and there is no ship in between those classes - finally... u could make so much more money just trading with those 500m u used as collateral
So i don't bother - until theres a cheap ISK/m3 ship over 200k m3 in EVE i aint doing public hauling
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Slanty McGarglefist
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Posted - 2008.11.15 20:05:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Antar Kengis My opinion, don't Solo hauling as a general career is a dead end business - firstly it is quite often that the risk will outweigh the return absurdly - second its a dead end career - u train to indys then to transports in what a few months thats it - thirdly if ure already thinking about it... it will take u forever to get to a freighter and there is no ship in between those classes - finally... u could make so much more money just trading with those 500m u used as collateral
So i don't bother - until theres a cheap ISK/m3 ship over 200k m3 in EVE i aint doing public hauling
You can get into a freighter in barely a month. |
Tasko Pal
Heron Corporation
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Posted - 2008.11.15 21:09:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Trading Bunnz
To risk a hull worth around 800m and whatever the value of the cargo is. I mean, the risk assessment here is madness. At that price, you (the hauler) is betting that you will manage 4,000 jumps (what? 200 round trip runs from jita<>amarr?), just to pay for the hull, without covering cost of collateral or actually generating a profit.
And? The missing part here is that as long as the cargo is low value enough, there simply is no incentive to pop the freighter and the risk of a gank is much less than 1 in 4000 per jump. An afk freighter pilot can make a lot of isk at 200k per jump.
At 5 autopilot round trips a day between Jita and Amarr at 200k isk per jump, you pay for the freighter in 40 days, less than a month and a half. |
Jason Edwards
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Posted - 2008.11.15 22:48:00 -
[18]
Orca is godsend to the transporting people.
1. You train exhumers with Orca. So you can have mining as secondary proffession. 2. 100,000m3 or so. 3. Anything you put in corp hangar or ship hangar isnt scannable and if you are killed... those things are destroyed anyway. So high value things can be transported quite safely.
The courier missions are often not done because people can put a high collateral, and wait for you, suicide you, get their items back, and they keep the collateral. With the items in corp hangar. They cant do that to you; not reasonably well anymore. |
Wiaf
Mystic Lion Hearts Sev3rance
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Posted - 2008.11.16 02:20:00 -
[19]
I can safely say that 10k ISK per jump or even 30k per jump is a good price.
A Freighter hauling service I know charges 250k per jump and that is the cheapest one around (check eve-o for Red Frog Investments)
-Wiaf- |
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