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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2008.11.04 09:47:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Akita T on 04/11/2008 09:48:34
The "ban" on political and religious issues in OOPE is nearly absolete, I daresay even absurd.
The only reason given so far is the claim a "flamewar" would be "unavoidable". As illustrated by COUNTLESS recent locked threads due to this policy (and due to this policy alone), the majority of people here ARE capable of having a civil conversation about those subjects, at least just as civil as many OTHER topics that have nothing to do with religion/politics present in this subforum that never get locked, even IF they reach near or actual flame-war status.
Therefore I propose that rule to be abolished, and threads be cleaned/closed ONLY if they ACTUALLY reach "flamewar" status, not prophylactically "just because".
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Create a character || Fit a ship || Get some ISK |
Reven Cordelle
Caldari School of Applied Knowledge
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Posted - 2008.11.04 09:51:00 -
[2]
/Signed.
Even the BBC News Forums are only moderated when people start being ass-hats, otherwise everyone gets a say in whatever.
And considering this is basically the forum for "everything else", surely we should be able to post about... Well... Everything else?
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Tzar'rim
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Posted - 2008.11.04 10:00:00 -
[3]
It won't happen, there's too many people taking such subjecst far too serious to a point where CCP as acompany simply doesn't want to stir the hornet's nest.
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2008.11.04 10:11:00 -
[4]
And when people take things too far, CCP are well within their rights to delete the posts or lock the thread, even delete the thread and warn/ban the posters. But BEFORE people get things too far, what's the harm.
And anyway... "religion not allowed, there are other websites with forums for these topics"... seriously ? Please, can somebody name me a couple of forums that have at least the same ORDER of magnitude of visitors as the EVE-O forums (so you can get enough feedback on your discussion) where I could find even a remotely similar percentual demographic of mindsets and interests. No, really, please do... can anybody ?
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Create a character || Fit a ship || Get some ISK |
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2008.11.04 10:17:00 -
[5]
Ok, how about this for an alternative ? A "controversial topics" subforum. A NEW subforum in the EVE-O forums, with completely different behaviour. For starters, it would be INVISIBLE to non-registered users. You'd have to be logged in to even see it exists. Second, a "one strike, you're out of posting rights" rule for posting in it. Third, it's a purely "opt-in" subforum - you have to confirm you read, understood and will abide by the above terms before you post in it.
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Create a character || Fit a ship || Get some ISK |
Tzar'rim
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Posted - 2008.11.04 10:27:00 -
[6]
While that would be nice it would be severely outside the scope of what CCP is doing. Besides, you're asking to have extra features enabled to the forum regarding access and whatnot... Quite the optimist
But as an idea, yeah I'd like that. Thing is ofcourse that moderation would still be arbitrary so it doesn't really solve anything. Besides, it would take about 7 seconds before it would turn into a steaming pile of horse manure.
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KingsGambit
Caldari Knights
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Posted - 2008.11.04 10:38:00 -
[7]
Nothing in the world divides men more than politics and religion. That is the reason for a ban, though the OOPE mods are obviously sleeping or on holiday considering the number of threads currently going. Threads and posts like this are the reason.
Originally by: Akita T Every last person who PRETENDS to TRULY believe in ANY god whatsoever is either totally brainwashed, extremely weak-willed (with stubbornness camouflaging as strong willpower), downright stupid or a combination of the mentioned negative traits.
I would prefer the rule actually be enforced. No disrespect, but your own comments are precisely the reason why those threads aren't appropriate. Perhaps there are forums dedicated to having such discussions? -------------
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2008.11.04 10:50:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Akita T on 04/11/2008 10:52:34
I will decline to comment on your comment on the quoted section for reasons that should be obvious due to this thread's existance, wether I agree or disagree with your statement.
If the mods would consider that "first strike" lock-out worthy, well, my posting privileges there would be revoked and you WOULDN'T have to deal with me again in there anymore, now would you ?
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Create a character || Fit a ship || Get some ISK |
Kazuo Ishiguro
House of Marbles Zzz
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Posted - 2008.11.04 11:58:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Akita T Please, can somebody name me a couple of forums that have at least the same ORDER of magnitude of visitors as the EVE-O forums (so you can get enough feedback on your discussion) where I could find even a remotely similar percentual demographic of mindsets and interests. No, really, please do... can anybody ?
www.somethingawful.com ?
Hey, somebody had to --- DIY copying in Liekuri 20:1 mineral compression Eve Online folding@home team |
PKlavins
Caldari The New Era HUZZAH FEDERATION
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Posted - 2008.11.04 12:00:00 -
[10]
It's true, this forum can miraculously have threads on politics and religion that aren't flame wars; the political one is in fact still going... somehow still unlocked...
Basically, good idea, I agree, but it'll never happen. We can dream...
The new 7.5km web = web + scram = "Wamble".
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Anneka Tong
B. S. Radioactive Sheep Farm
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Posted - 2008.11.04 13:10:00 -
[11]
Do you think maybe the removal of the 30-day timecards is responsible for the recent increase in fairly civil discussion?
I like genetic engineering Past projects: The Radioactive Sheep Current project: CyberCow |
DubanFP
Caldari Evil ALT Corp
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Posted - 2008.11.04 13:17:00 -
[12]
I agree. Despite some radical differences of opinion the election post is going 4 pages and it's still relatively civil as far as the forums go. The last theological discussions I've seen were pretty much the same way too. _______________
"White, Black, Minmitar, Achura, Male or Female it doesn't matter to me. I'm an equal opportunity killer" |
MooKids
Caldari Dark Echo Engineering
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Posted - 2008.11.04 13:58:00 -
[13]
Heh, this is funny. Have you noticed that most posts on here of a controversial nature almost always end up as a flame war? It just so happens that religion and politics are the most volatile. You are NOT going to be able to change people's minds on an internet forum. Everyone is always of the mindset of "I'm right, you are wrong, therefore you are going to hell." Why do you think they say "don't discuss religion of politics on a first date" or whatever it is.
CCP doesn't need some dumbass making the one comment that causes one group to declare a boycott/holy war on them because they allowed it. -------------------------------- CCP can patch away bugs, but they can't patch away stupidity. |
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2008.11.04 15:46:00 -
[14]
Originally by: MooKids Have you noticed that most posts on here of a controversial nature almost always end up as a flame war?
So... are you trying to say the vast majority of threads in here AREN'T of a controversial nature ?
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Jacob Mei
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Posted - 2008.11.04 16:16:00 -
[15]
I agree. The blanket rule really doesnt work out as you will always have people, myself included, wanting to have a conversation about local news and policy with an international group. The mod's already rely on us to report bad threads and posts, why cant the rely on us to report flames in policitcal threads? -------------------------------- To borrow a phrase:
Players who post are like stars, there are bright ones and those who are dim.
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FOl2TY8
Revolutionary United Front
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Posted - 2008.11.04 16:37:00 -
[16]
These forums actually have one saving grace. If people get too heated they can take it to the game to "work" out their differences. If someone flames you on the BBC forums you can't find them in Molden Heath and SHOOT THEIR STUPID CONSERVATIVE FACES OFF!!!!!
---------- The six paths and the four lives.... |
Merin Ryskin
Peregrine Industries
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Posted - 2008.11.04 18:48:00 -
[17]
/signed
The recent thread on religion that CCP locked was a civilized and interesting discussion. There was no reason to lock a thread that had far fewer flames and trolls than your average S&M or CAOD thread. ----------- Blaster sig removed for now, pending those "changes we've been working on all day". CCP, don't screw this up.
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Cmdr Sy
Appetite 4 Destruction The Firm.
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Posted - 2008.11.04 21:27:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Reven Cordelle Even the BBC News Forums are only moderated when people start being ass-hats, otherwise everyone gets a say in whatever.
I don't know about that, in a bank thread I suggested that the people left in charge (nothing more specific than that) might now be "covering their tracks" (nothing more specific than that, I didn't even specify tracks of what) and it was never published. Instead I got a nice e-mail telling me not to make defamatory comments. Um, defame who? How? The BBC can't attract a libel suit by publishing a comment saying "someone somewhere might be using the chaos to cover up something". The moderation there is crazy. Amusingly, you can get far more pointed stuff through by using jargon as obviously the staff there are a bunch of intern kids. |
Fink Angel
Caldari The Merry Men
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Posted - 2008.11.05 11:47:00 -
[19]
Yeah, I thought we were doing quite nicely with some "hands off" moderation, but we've just been nuked into orbit recently.
We're pretty well behaved in here, and had some good sensible and generally adult discussions.
If they want to avoid flame wars, they should ban talking about Eve!
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Ryan Scouse'UK
omen. IDLE EMPIRE
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Posted - 2008.11.05 12:02:00 -
[20]
They locked my post on Dogging :(
no EVE related content in signature. ~Weatherman |
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Gojyu
Ever Flow Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2008.11.05 12:07:00 -
[21]
I disagree. Whenever the eve community has a thread regarding politics or religion posted, it shows that it is not mature enough to deserve such a privilege. The ill-informed rhetoric of 90% of the posters would turn the oope forum into a cess-pit, much like caod has become
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ouroboros trading
Gallente Federal Navy Academy
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Posted - 2008.11.05 12:21:00 -
[22]
they should remain banned, i've never seen anything good come from religious/political/otherwise internet discussions on public forums.
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Epoch
Tribal Liberation Force
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Posted - 2008.11.05 12:26:00 -
[23]
Edited by: Epoch on 05/11/2008 12:26:47 Edited by: Epoch on 05/11/2008 12:26:19
Originally by: Akita T And when people take things too far, CCP are well within their rights to delete the posts or lock the thread, even delete the thread and warn/ban the posters. But BEFORE people get things too far, what's the harm.
And anyway... "religion not allowed, there are other websites with forums for these topics"... seriously ? Please, can somebody name me a couple of forums that have at least the same ORDER of magnitude of visitors as the EVE-O forums (so you can get enough feedback on your discussion) where I could find even a remotely similar percentual demographic of mindsets and interests. No, really, please do... can anybody ?
other websites with forums for these topics seriously ?
Yea...seriously!
So in order to have a cordial, intelligent debate regarding religion, politics & anything else that falls under the CCP umbrella of inappropriate topics of conversation, participants pre-requisite must be an interest in space video games?
The most pertinent question here is û why do you want to discuss religion on the eve-online forums?
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ReaperOfSly
Gallente Zetsubou Corp
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Posted - 2008.11.05 12:56:00 -
[24]
Originally by: MooKids You are NOT going to be able to change people's minds on an internet forum. Everyone is always of the mindset of "I'm right, you are wrong, therefore you are going to hell."
Actually, I've had my mind changed on various issues by discussing them on forums. Occasionally, someone with an opposing viewpoint to my own comes up with a logical, eloquent, and compelling argument to support their case. It's rare, but it happens.
For example, up until yesterday I was a firm believer in determinism. A thread about it came up on the XKCD forum and it turns out something I had taken for granted might possibly not be true. My position is now "the universe is probably deterministic, but there's a tiny possibility that it isn't". ____________________
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2008.11.05 14:12:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Epoch So in order to have a cordial, intelligent debate regarding religion, politics & anything else that falls under the CCP umbrella of inappropriate topics of conversation, participants pre-requisite must be an interest in space video games?
In not so many words, YES.
Participants to that forum must be preferring sci-fi over fantasy (and more likely to know the subtle differences between), must be on average of above average intelligence, must be of a certain average age... and so on and so forth. EVE is a niche game (and you can't deny that part), MOSTLY appealing to a certain subset of people I would enjoy having discussions with, in terms of ages, mindsets, beliefs and so on. Of course other kinds of people I wouldn't enjoy to talk to also end up playing EVE for a while (or even longer), but the percentual demographics is far more favorable than real-life (for starters) and many other forums/sites you can even begin to think of.
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Create a character || Fit a ship || Get some ISK |
JordanParey
Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas
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Posted - 2008.11.05 15:52:00 -
[26]
/signed. if you cannot post in a constructive(non-flame, I suppose) way in a thread that is meant to be meaningful discussion, then you sir are a troll and need to go back under your bridge.
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Zyck
KDS Navy
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Posted - 2008.11.05 16:27:00 -
[27]
Wow, CCP Weatherman just completely owned every thread in this forum that had even a hint of politics in it.
And not one was uncivil from what I could see.
/signed -Zyck |
Merin Ryskin
Peregrine Industries
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Posted - 2008.11.05 16:52:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Zyck Wow, CCP Weatherman just completely owned every thread in this forum that had even a hint of politics in it.
And not one was uncivil from what I could see.
/signed
Exactly. There was no reason to lock those threads except for "it's against the no politics rule". The whole point of that rule is to stop flame wars and trolling, without flame wars and trolling, you're just enforcing rules for the sake of having a rule. ----------- Blaster sig removed for now, pending those "changes we've been working on all day". CCP, don't screw this up.
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Florio
Federal Defence Union
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Posted - 2008.11.05 18:37:00 -
[29]
/signed. i'm an adult.
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Samuel Miner
Caldari Ramdon Industries corporation
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Posted - 2008.11.05 22:01:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Florio /signed. i'm an adult.
This.
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