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masternerdguy
Inner Shadow NightSong Directorate
94
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Posted - 2012.04.04 17:59:00 -
[1] - Quote
Everyone talks about the economy. How it's all inflated and such. Maybe it is, but why does CCP suddenly care?
The general "problem" that the community claims we have is that people have too much isk and the market prices are too low (how is this a problem again? That just means we're all rich!).
I figured it out today.
Nullsec is the place where the big epic fleet battles CCP likes to advertise happen. However, real nullsec battles are much different than the trailers. In reality everyone flies the same 2 ships that are fit to alpha strike a target. This salvo fire on a single target destroys it in 1 hit before the enemy logistics can react.
This is an extremely effective and I believe very realistic way to fight in space. However, everyone seems to think that it is boring and removes all skill from the fleet. People say that it reduces target calling to alphabetical order and fleet member skill to lock and F1.
CCP wants to get rid of Hellcats and other similar fleet compositions because of the stark contrast between the harsh realities of nullsec and what trailers such as Dominion say.
This is why they want everyone to have less isk and/or more expensive ships. They want battleships to become rare again so that hellcat fleets cannot be economically feasible. Players are being punished for being creative and good at the game so that the trailers match the game, instead of the trailers reflecting what the game is actually like.
Save the hellcats! Save your wallets! Things are only impossible until they are not. |
Castor II
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
13
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Posted - 2012.04.04 18:01:00 -
[2] - Quote
You're an awful awful poster, you know that? |
Roll Sizzle Beef
Space Mutiny
174
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Posted - 2012.04.04 18:02:00 -
[3] - Quote
So... save the alpha, two ship fleets? |
Stellar Vix
State War Academy Caldari State
59
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Posted - 2012.04.04 18:03:00 -
[4] - Quote
According to my Intel net. Many null sec systems are going to lose -0.1 to -0.3 points off their true sec. I belvie this will have much more impact than your hellcats going away.
Also fleet reviews are underway expect frigates to make a very nasty comeback espeically after they tweak the guns a bit to be nicer to smaller targets. Enjoy the new war.
-Vix SWA Instructor, Commander Select Currently being blamed as SWA's CEO SWA PVP Program |
Avila Cracko
294
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Posted - 2012.04.04 18:04:00 -
[5] - Quote
So you want to make EVE like WOW where all economy is screwed up and everybody can have everything??? Ruin some other game.
Go back to WoW ---------> truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. |
Micheal Dietrich
Standards and Practices
181
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Posted - 2012.04.04 18:04:00 -
[6] - Quote
There is no such thing as having too much isk. |
masternerdguy
Inner Shadow NightSong Directorate
94
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Posted - 2012.04.04 18:05:00 -
[7] - Quote
Avila Cracko wrote:So you want to make EVE like WOW where all economy is screwed up and everybody can have everything??? Ruin some other game.
Go back to WoW --------->
How are we supposed to work it into the roleplay that once powerful nullsec alliances that fielded thousands of battleships at once can barely afford a hundred?
Seriously. Save the hellcats. Things are only impossible until they are not. |
Avila Cracko
294
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Posted - 2012.04.04 18:08:00 -
[8] - Quote
masternerdguy wrote:Avila Cracko wrote:So you want to make EVE like WOW where all economy is screwed up and everybody can have everything??? Ruin some other game.
Go back to WoW ---------> How are we supposed to work it into the roleplay that once powerful nullsec alliances that fielded thousands of battleships at once can barely afford a hundred? Seriously. Save the hellcats.
World economical crisis??? no... that so unreal... oh, wait... look at RL... truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. |
Vertisce Soritenshi
Varion Galactic Tragedy.
1461
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Posted - 2012.04.04 18:08:00 -
[9] - Quote
Castor II wrote:You're an awful awful poster, you know that? I think the correct term is "Village Idiot". EvE is not about PvP.-á EvE is about the SANDBOX! - CCP!-á Open the door!!! |
Stellar Vix
State War Academy Caldari State
59
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Posted - 2012.04.04 18:08:00 -
[10] - Quote
masternerdguy wrote:Avila Cracko wrote:So you want to make EVE like WOW where all economy is screwed up and everybody can have everything??? Ruin some other game.
Go back to WoW ---------> How are we supposed to work it into the roleplay that once powerful nullsec alliances that fielded thousands of battleships at once can barely afford a hundred? Seriously. Save the hellcats.
Amarr's Hells no.
Adapt or Die Trying.
I do not mind hellcat's going extinct.
-Vix SWA Instructor, Commander Select Currently being blamed as SWA's CEO SWA PVP Program |
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Pyrus Octavius
Koshaku Gentlemen's Agreement
11
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Posted - 2012.04.04 18:14:00 -
[11] - Quote
I give you +1 for creative thinking. -1 for the improper use of a Tin Foil Hat. |
Alua Oresson
Demon-War-Lords BLACK-MARK
87
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Posted - 2012.04.04 18:14:00 -
[12] - Quote
Castor II wrote:You're an awful awful poster, you know that?
Agreed, OP's post is deliberately inflammatory and over the top. Also not what is going to happen. |
Ender Black
Lone Star Exploration Lone Star Partners
109
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Posted - 2012.04.04 18:15:00 -
[13] - Quote
Forum posts used to be rock bottom...over the last two weeks caterpillar has shipped 1000 D9 dozers and excavators so bad poasters can plunder even deeper. The Pod Goo Podcast http://www.podgoo.com
Pod Goo also publishes editorials, guest blogs, and guides for free. -áJust email [email protected] your material. |
TkAlligator38
Kotodama Corp
4
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Posted - 2012.04.04 18:19:00 -
[14] - Quote
masternerdguy wrote:Avila Cracko wrote:So you want to make EVE like WOW where all economy is screwed up and everybody can have everything??? Ruin some other game.
Go back to WoW ---------> How are we supposed to work it into the roleplay that once powerful nullsec alliances that fielded thousands of battleships at once can barely afford a hundred? Seriously. Save the hellcats.
You must be a terrible roleplayer if that's your big concern. |
Twulf
The Konvergent League Sanctuary Pact
39
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Posted - 2012.04.04 18:22:00 -
[15] - Quote
EvE is the same as every other MMO when it comes to this issue. The longer a player plays, the more in game money they have.
Nothing you can do short of making a ton of money sinks and EVE is not really setup for money sinks other then ship lost really.
So if you can come up with a way to fix this issue in EVE, you will be a rich person as you can sell your solution to every MMO developer on the planet. |
Ocih
Space Mermaids Somethin Awfull Forums
127
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Posted - 2012.04.04 18:25:00 -
[16] - Quote
Not sure of the way you came to your conclusions but in the grand scheme of things, I'd prefer things be geared to the market. Markets are for surplus, that's how it should be. Alliances with large Null sec plantations can learn to build thier own fleets. I'd rather have 10,000 ships fitted and rigged in EVE than a trillion ISK. |
Xander Riggs
EVE University Ivy League
152
|
Posted - 2012.04.04 18:25:00 -
[17] - Quote
masternerdguy wrote:Avila Cracko wrote:So you want to make EVE like WOW where all economy is screwed up and everybody can have everything??? Ruin some other game.
Go back to WoW ---------> How are we supposed to work it into the roleplay that once powerful nullsec alliances that fielded thousands of battleships at once can barely afford a hundred? Seriously. Save the hellcats.
Material costs on the rise. Lack of skilled labor to constuct and/or crew ships. Time constraints on construction. "A man with a drone-boat has nothing but time on his hands." |
Lord Reid
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
7
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Posted - 2012.04.04 18:33:00 -
[18] - Quote
Castor II wrote:You're an awful awful poster, you know that?
I would expect no less from the haven of awful posting, The Official Eve Online Forums. Official Goonwaffe Recruitment Officer |
Mikaella Storm
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2012.04.04 19:32:00 -
[19] - Quote
I for one would say the excess isk is necessary to maintalin the pvp ambiance of the game.
If they include more sinks and take isk from the market, they will only downsize ship hulls, because fleet doctrines will adapt and continue to exist and the way to conduct large fleet engagements wont change. It wont bring diversity. It will still be 1-2 ships and F1 buttan, just with smaller stuff.
What we will see is less use of the awesome ships, Tier 3 bc's and Tech 3 strategic cuisers, because the cost is too much to afford losing. We will see a decrease in engagements, a decrease in pvp, a decrease in ship quality.
If all a player can fly affordably is a frigate, why train for a battleship?
"only fly what you can lose" is the 1st rule of this game.
Once things began too costly to be lost systematically, they will cease to be used at large. |
Aiwha
101st Space Marine Force Nulli Secunda
298
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Posted - 2012.04.04 19:35:00 -
[20] - Quote
Hellcats suck. PANIC geddons are where its at. Regards,
LCpl. Aiwha-á Senior Recruiter |
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Alexa Coates
The Scope Gallente Federation
83
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Posted - 2012.04.04 19:50:00 -
[21] - Quote
who the **** are the hellcats Love my Gallente Federation Navy ships! |
Uppsy Daisy
24th Imperial Crusade Amarr Empire
98
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Posted - 2012.04.04 19:51:00 -
[22] - Quote
Castor II wrote:You're an awful awful poster, you know that?
I read it through a few times, but alas I could not pry anything comprehensible from it.
No change there then. |
Llyandrian
Livestock Science Exchange
39
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Posted - 2012.04.04 20:06:00 -
[23] - Quote
Alexa Coates wrote:who the **** are the hellcats
Wrong question, it should be ...
What the **** are Hellcats. |
Nova Fox
Novafox Shipyards
3647
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Posted - 2012.04.04 20:13:00 -
[24] - Quote
Its a ship configuration of some sort but its beyond me I don't sit on Pandemic Legion's Military Boards for naming ship fits.
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Slime Slurper
Miserable Gits
0
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Posted - 2012.04.04 20:15:00 -
[25] - Quote
While the OP....I don't know.
His complaint is valid though about fleet combat.
Reminds me of a game in the 80's called 'Starfire"
Great game of spaceship combat...even inspired several novels like "In Death Ground" and "The Shiva Option".
However, it suffered from a problem similar to Eve. It was called the "Statue of Liberty" fleet problem. Since each hex was so big you couldn't realistically put stacking penalties in the rules...gameplay involved to each player having all their ships in one hex at all times. The stack would be enormous (hence 'statue of liberty'). It detracted from an otherwise great game. |
Richard Aiel
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
105
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Posted - 2012.04.04 20:15:00 -
[26] - Quote
so whats this nerf it says in the title? all I saw in your post was your fanciful thoughts Ravan Hekki: "Well done CCP. Banned tears the best sort of tears." especially Goon tears
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Valerie Tessel
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
98
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Posted - 2012.04.04 20:25:00 -
[27] - Quote
Remote Shield Extenders.
For 30 seconds, I can project a 2000hp shield around a target. So can anyone else with an RSE... Now the alpha has to be timed, and so does the defense. Welcome back tactics. |
AureoBroker
Natural Inventions Solyaris Chtonium
12
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Posted - 2012.04.04 20:52:00 -
[28] - Quote
Resource-based fights being bad? Bro, pass that joint! |
Rory Orlenard
University of Caille Gallente Federation
44
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Posted - 2012.04.04 21:30:00 -
[29] - Quote
Part of controlling botters/RMTers is making them unnessesary , if isk is freely available there isn't a need of them. If you make isk valuable I will guess that they increase in numbers. That ruins the game for honest players and casual players not willing to spend real money to buy isk. I believe the valuable commodity in Eve should be the character skills - time can not be manipulated , exploited or multiboxed. Make isk freely available and a characters skills the controlling factor in pvp. |
ElQuirko
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
496
|
Posted - 2012.04.04 22:05:00 -
[30] - Quote
I agree with CCP.
Battleships should be rare. Why else do you think the majority of tech 2 (and even tech 3) ships are cruisers? Because cruisers are meant to be the workhorses of combat, not battleships or battlecruisers. Battleships were originally intended to be a rare occurrence, maybe 10 or so in a 300 man fleet - capital ships were supposed to be seen once every few fights, not being completely replaced by gigantic supercapital blobs.
If we distribute pictures of people, does that mean God can file copyright claims under SOPA? |
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Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
453
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Posted - 2012.04.04 22:06:00 -
[31] - Quote
Rory Orlenard wrote:I believe the valuable commodity in Eve should be the character skills - time can not be manipulated , exploited or multiboxed. Make isk freely available and a characters skills the controlling factor in pvp. The problem being that skills accumulate over time, and are never lost. And beyond a certain point, they are worthless. I have a few characters which are max skilled in the ships they fly. These are the common PvP ships, my characters will never get any better at flying them. ISK on the other hand can be lost, and will be lost over time for any active player.
Also, whilst SP cannot be exploited or manipulated, it can be bought via illegal character trading sites or the character bazaar. It also can be muli-boxed in a sense, due to multiple accounts I'm currently training multiple characters to pilot multiple different ships perfectly.
Rory Orlenard wrote:Part of controlling botters/RMTers is making them unnessesary , if isk is freely available there isn't a need of them. If you make isk valuable I will guess that they increase in numbers. That ruins the game for honest players and casual players not willing to spend real money to buy isk. If ISK is freely available then your losses have no value, already the value of ISK is pretty low for most players. Among older players it is not uncommon to have enough ISK to buy multiple supers, and even younger players really do not have to work particularly hard to get by in this game.
Personally I don't see that as a good thing. I like the idea of losses meaning something.
--Will Support Your Terrible Forum Thread For ISK-- |
Marduk Nibiru
Risk Breakers C0NVICTED
144
|
Posted - 2012.04.04 22:52:00 -
[32] - Quote
masternerdguy wrote:Everyone talks about the economy. How it's all inflated and such. Maybe it is, but why does CCP suddenly care?
The general "problem" that the community claims we have is that people have too much isk and the market prices are too low (how is this a problem again? That just means we're all rich!).
What's funny is that I feel exactly the opposite kind of pressure. I seem to suck at making ISK. Makes ship losses really, really hurt and the prices of these ships is just going ape ****. A maelstrom cost 90mil only 2 weeks ago and now it's twice that...add .5 for 0.0 prices and holy ****! This is almost 1/2 my wallet for just the hull. Luckily I'm in a good alliance with solid SRP, but still....heavy investment.
Cost of being a weekend warrior I guess. |
Signal11th
447
|
Posted - 2012.04.04 22:53:00 -
[33] - Quote
Now that i think of it i'm sure too many people can afford Drakes I might ask CCP to do something about it! wait a minute.... God Said "Come Forth and receive eternal life!"-á I came second and won a toaster. |
SmilingVagrant
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
262
|
Posted - 2012.04.04 23:10:00 -
[34] - Quote
masternerdguy wrote:Everyone talks about the economy. How it's all inflated and such. Maybe it is, but why does CCP suddenly care?
The general "problem" that the community claims we have is that people have too much isk and the market prices are too low (how is this a problem again? That just means we're all rich!).
I figured it out today.
Nullsec is the place where the big epic fleet battles CCP likes to advertise happen. However, real nullsec battles are much different than the trailers. In reality everyone flies the same 2 ships that are fit to alpha strike a target. This salvo fire on a single target destroys it in 1 hit before the enemy logistics can react.
This is an extremely effective and I believe very realistic way to fight in space. However, everyone seems to think that it is boring and removes all skill from the fleet. People say that it reduces target calling to alphabetical order and fleet member skill to lock and F1.
CCP wants to get rid of Hellcats and other similar fleet compositions because of the stark contrast between the harsh realities of nullsec and what trailers such as Dominion say.
This is why they want everyone to have less isk and/or more expensive ships. They want battleships to become rare again so that hellcat fleets cannot be economically feasible. Players are being punished for being creative and good at the game so that the trailers match the game, instead of the trailers reflecting what the game is actually like.
Save the hellcats! Save your wallets!
What? In the battle I was in last night we had three different fleet doctrines rolling.
1 Drakefleet 1 Sniper T3 BC fleet 1 AHAC fleet
Our enemies regularly field everything from Tengu's to Hellcats, and given even numbers can "Hang" with the Alpha doctrine we generally use for mainfleet work.
You literally have no clue what you are talking about, there is FAR more diversity in fleet comp ~right now~ than there was two years ago when I first started playing. |
Richard Hammond II
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
149
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Posted - 2012.04.05 00:30:00 -
[35] - Quote
Signal11th wrote:Now that i think of it i'm sure too many people can afford Drakes I might ask CCP to do something about it! wait a minute....
Given all the nerfs theyve been getting id think they would be worth less
Goons; infiltration at its best - first bob... now ccp itself. They dont realize you guys dot take this as "just a game". Bring it down guys, we're rooting for you. |
Vyl Vit
Cambio Enterprises
358
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Posted - 2012.04.05 01:32:00 -
[36] - Quote
Pyrus Octavius wrote:I give you +1 for creative thinking. -1 for the improper use of a Tin Foil Hat. Your tinfoil hat requirements are murder. MURDER, I tell yah!
Anyone with any sense has already left town. |
DarkAegix
Acetech Systems
1071
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Posted - 2012.04.05 01:48:00 -
[37] - Quote
Alpha/focus-fire tactics are wholly unrealistic. They stem from several things: -Overly powerful remote reps -No 'terrain'. Anyone can shoot anyone. No need to have formations, mixed fleet composition, or get inside the enemy blob -No line of sight. Blobs would have a huge risk of shooting friendlies.
There's a whole bunch more reasons, but I won't get into them. Alpha/focus fire tactics aren't used in ground, sea, or air warfare. Past or present. Realistically, space would be the same.
Also, it isn't fun or marketable.
Finally, CCP want to get rid of alpha/focus-fire, so deal with it. |
Qvar Dar'Zanar
EVE University Ivy League
29
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Posted - 2012.04.05 01:55:00 -
[38] - Quote
@OP Please go study some economics, then come back.
If people have less money, ships WILL cost less money. Not only because the deamnd is lower, but because the mineral prices will also go down, making the ships easier to build. |
masternerdguy
Inner Shadow NightSong Directorate
94
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Posted - 2012.04.05 03:16:00 -
[39] - Quote
Qvar Dar'Zanar wrote:@OP Please go study some economics, then come back.
If people have less money, ships WILL cost less money. Not only because the deamnd is lower, but because the mineral prices will also go down, making the ships easier to build.
No. If people have less money ships will cost more because the minerals are harder to extract. Things are only impossible until they are not. |
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
97
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Posted - 2012.04.05 03:26:00 -
[40] - Quote
masternerdguy wrote:Qvar Dar'Zanar wrote:@OP Please go study some economics, then come back.
If people have less money, ships WILL cost less money. Not only because the deamnd is lower, but because the mineral prices will also go down, making the ships easier to build. No. If people have less money ships will cost more because the minerals are harder to extract. Huh? |
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masternerdguy
Inner Shadow NightSong Directorate
94
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Posted - 2012.04.05 03:28:00 -
[41] - Quote
Tyberius Franklin wrote:masternerdguy wrote:Qvar Dar'Zanar wrote:@OP Please go study some economics, then come back.
If people have less money, ships WILL cost less money. Not only because the deamnd is lower, but because the mineral prices will also go down, making the ships easier to build. No. If people have less money ships will cost more because the minerals are harder to extract. Huh?
I stated CCP is trying to nerf hellcats, remember?
This means they need to reduce us to poor people so we can't fly them anymore. ISK faucets are going to be "corrected" so that within 6 months filfthy rich will be 200m isk. Things are only impossible until they are not. |
Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
453
|
Posted - 2012.04.05 03:29:00 -
[42] - Quote
Tyberius Franklin wrote:masternerdguy wrote:Qvar Dar'Zanar wrote:@OP Please go study some economics, then come back.
If people have less money, ships WILL cost less money. Not only because the deamnd is lower, but because the mineral prices will also go down, making the ships easier to build. No. If people have less money ships will cost more because the minerals are harder to extract. Huh? He's just trollin.
--Will Support Your Terrible Forum Thread For ISK-- |
masternerdguy
Inner Shadow NightSong Directorate
94
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Posted - 2012.04.05 13:46:00 -
[43] - Quote
CCP care to comment on your stealth nullsec nerf? Things are only impossible until they are not. |
Danfen Fenix
Vita Aequitas Veritas The Paganism Alliance
52
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Posted - 2012.04.05 14:13:00 -
[44] - Quote
If they wanted to nerf a ship, theyd nerf the damn ship, not go through some acrobatic game changing mechanisms to do it... |
masternerdguy
Inner Shadow NightSong Directorate
94
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Posted - 2012.04.05 14:14:00 -
[45] - Quote
Danfen Fenix wrote:If they wanted to nerf a ship, theyd nerf the damn ship, not go through some acrobatic game changing mechanisms to do it...
They want to avoid community outrage. Things are only impossible until they are not. |
Solstice Project
I'm So Meta Even This Acronym
1460
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Posted - 2012.04.05 16:00:00 -
[46] - Quote
I'm glad i'm playing for over two years now and never gave a crap about making ISK ... Inappropriate signature removed. Spitfire |
Doc Severide
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
58
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Posted - 2012.04.05 16:37:00 -
[47] - Quote
Simi Kusoni wrote:If ISK is freely available then your losses have no value, already the value of ISK is pretty low for most players. Among older players it is not uncommon to have enough ISK to buy multiple supers, and even younger players really do not have to work particularly hard to get by in this game.
Personally I don't see that as a good thing. I like the idea of losses meaning something. No...
All this means is people won't actually fly anything decent. They will only field cheap junk or else run back to dock if they have an expensive fit.
If Battle Ships are cheap to buy and fit, people will be more likely to not care about losing them. But when some player who has limited time makes crap for ISK, he simply won't risk any of it...or worse, whine alot when he gets killed...
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Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
485
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Posted - 2012.04.05 17:22:00 -
[48] - Quote
Doc Severide wrote:No...
All this means is people won't actually fly anything decent. They will only field cheap junk or else run back to dock if they have an expensive fit.
If Battle Ships are cheap to buy and fit, people will be more likely to not care about losing them. But when some player who has limited time makes crap for ISK, he simply won't risk any of it...or worse, whine alot when he gets killed...
Blowing up someone's battleship to me has no meaning nor value if the battleship itself had no value. It makes little difference to me if I am blowing up people's battleships, battle cruisers or cruisers. Anything that makes them seem less like disposable assets is positive.
People whining about about getting killed, now that is priceless.
--Will Support Your Terrible Forum Thread For ISK-- |
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