Pages: [1] :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
FlameGlow
Legio Octae Rebellion Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.11.06 08:08:00 -
[1]
As it will be after speed rebalance missile BS won't have any weapons against smaller targets - cruise missiles hardly even hurt cruisers. At same time turret BS have lower tier turrets with better tracking then top damaging ones. Can another launcher be added of BS size that launches heavy missiles at greater rate then regular heavy launcher? Just like cruisers have option to deliver percent of greater damage on frigates(but less damage overall) battleships should have similar option against cruisers. _____________ I don't care what is nerfed, as long as it's not my "undock" button. |
Clansworth
Burning Sky Labs Libertas Fidelitas
|
Posted - 2008.11.06 09:06:00 -
[2]
While I might agree with this, as the Assault launcher is currently a concept in it's own as of now, I feel it would be very hard to balance. The problem is that the cruise missile is far to 'versatile' for near-BS damage. It is VERY effective against cruisers, and can still hurt frigs pretty bad as well. BS's SHOULD have problems hurting frigs. All ships should have problems hitting 2 size categories below them. This isn't a problem with the assault launchers because there isn't really a '2 sizes below', unless you count drones.
POS Personal Storage |
Cheopis
Ardishapur Ammunition and More
|
Posted - 2008.11.06 09:32:00 -
[3]
If you put two 90% speed reduction webbers on a battleship and manage to web a frigate, you can hit it with pretty much anything.
I used to kill spider drones with tachyon beams (now I do it with t2 light drones)
Webbers and battleship sized energy neutralizers don't have a "hit test" and will do evil, awful things to frigates.
|
MenanceWhite
Amarr Ministry of War
|
Posted - 2008.11.06 10:15:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Cheopis 90% webs
ohho, not post patch.
Originally by: Cheopis neut
slow cycles and useless against injectors.
BS have drones, which should be fine for destroying smaller sized ships with. ---
Originally by: Torfi There's alot. That can be done. With.. corpses
Originally by: Oveur
|
Mister Xerox
|
Posted - 2008.11.06 11:17:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Mister Xerox on 06/11/2008 11:19:11 IMO we do need these modules, especially with the changes making small targets darn near invulnerable to larger foes lacking a Huginn on their wing.
Cruiser sized rocket launchers, BS sized Assault/Heavy/Ham launchers that spit out rapidfire salvos of smaller missiles as a method to stave off the Kestrel swarm of old.
Or just allow missiles to define their launch timing, and the size of the launcher determining what can be loaded. So you can put rockets in a siege launcher and they'll come out like angry bees, but you can't put a light missile into a rocket launcher.
This will enable bigger ships a ghost's chance of surviving the Kestrel blob. It will also allow large targets to act as bait when small ship swarms are about... a Raven loading light missiles with a ROF of 1 second (and the ship's bonuses factored) would make a frig gang downright nervous but not instaPWN them. If another BS comes into the fray the pilot has the option of loading up larger ammo, sacraficing small-ship damage for big ship damage.
|
Sir Substance
Minmatar MagiTech Alliance Inc. MagiTech Corp
|
Posted - 2008.11.07 06:08:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Mister Xerox So you can put rockets in a siege launcher and they'll come out like angry bees, but you can't put a light missile into a rocket launcher.
sorry, hijacking this idea a bit, what if you use this, and allow the launcher 1 size class above to fire one extra of the missile class below per cycle. so a standard launcher fires one standard missile every firing cycle, but allow people to put light missiles in heavy launchers, and fire two per cycle, or cruiser launchers and fire three per cycle.
same with the rocket/HAM/torp range.
thoughts? - PvPers always say "GB2WoW". the message is that EVE is hard, and people just need to deal with it. wasn't it funny how when nano's started making it hard for *them*, that all went out the window? |
Salpad
Caldari Carebears with Attitude
|
Posted - 2008.11.07 06:40:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Mister Xerox
Or just allow missiles to define their launch timing, and the size of the launcher determining what can be loaded. So you can put rockets in a siege launcher and they'll come out like angry bees, but you can't put a light missile into a rocket launcher.
No. This is a no-go.
The factor that makes assault missile launchers balanced is that you have to make the choice at fitting time. If you change your mind, you have to go back to dock and re-fit; you can't just change ammo.
It should be a module thing, not an ammunition thing.
-- Salpad |
Sir Substance
Minmatar MagiTech Alliance Inc. MagiTech Corp
|
Posted - 2008.11.07 08:00:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Salpad
Originally by: Mister Xerox
Or just allow missiles to define their launch timing, and the size of the launcher determining what can be loaded. So you can put rockets in a siege launcher and they'll come out like angry bees, but you can't put a light missile into a rocket launcher.
No. This is a no-go.
The factor that makes assault missile launchers balanced is that you have to make the choice at fitting time. If you change your mind, you have to go back to dock and re-fit; you can't just change ammo.
It should be a module thing, not an ammunition thing.
guns can alter the range/DPS trade off on the fly by changing ammo.
hell, with t2, cap charge, tracking speed, shield HP, shield recharge, all of these things are determined not by the module, but by the ammo. - PvPers always say "GB2WoW". the message is that EVE is hard, and people just need to deal with it. wasn't it funny how when nano's started making it hard for *them*, that all went out the window? |
FlameGlow
Legio Octae Rebellion Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 08:13:00 -
[9]
Now seems to be a good time for a bump, as cruise missiles are now worse against smaller stuff on TQ too. _____________ I don't care what is nerfed, as long as it's not my "undock" button. |
Camdim
Caldari The first genesis INTERDICTION
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 09:52:00 -
[10]
An easy fix for missles and launchers would be to make it so that every launcher can use it's class of missles or smaller. So this would be a heavy laucher could use standard and heavy missles.
This would allow you to carry around all sizes of missles to load in your laucher depending on the target you want to kill. This already works for defender missles with rocket launchers for example.
The basics for this are already in game in that each missle has a size. So then it would only need to be determined if smaller missles would launch at a faster rate.
Now once that happens the next thing to ask for would be a seperate ammo bay on every ship. This would be like the fuel bay idea on black ops ships.
|
|
Koyama Ise
Caldari Equestrian Knight Order of Lolicon
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 11:48:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Camdim An easy fix for missles and launchers would be to make it so that every launcher can use it's class of missles or smaller. So this would be a heavy laucher could use standard and heavy missles.
And how is this balanced? Missiles will be able to pwn smaller ships if they reload but turrets can't.
|
Mister Xerox
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 11:54:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Koyama Ise
Originally by: Camdim An easy fix for missles and launchers would be to make it so that every launcher can use it's class of missles or smaller. So this would be a heavy laucher could use standard and heavy missles.
And how is this balanced? Missiles will be able to pwn smaller ships if they reload but turrets can't.
That's the sacrafice they suffer to combat the frigate swarm.
|
Camdim
Caldari The first genesis INTERDICTION
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 14:35:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Koyama Ise
Originally by: Camdim An easy fix for missles and launchers would be to make it so that every launcher can use it's class of missles or smaller. So this would be a heavy laucher could use standard and heavy missles.
And how is this balanced? Missiles will be able to pwn smaller ships if they reload but turrets can't.
The balance is that you give up cargo space for the extra missles you have to carry around. But it also gives more use to ships with 2 missle points and the rest turrents.
As defenders work better now so that helps as anti missle system and then with a bit more cargo space used up with ammo any ship that can fit a launcher can have a system that can combat multi sized enemies.
|
Wrangler Al
Arcane Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 17:07:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Mister Xerox Or just allow missiles to define their launch timing, and the size of the launcher determining what can be loaded. So you can put rockets in a siege launcher and they'll come out like angry bees quote
I love this idea
Turret Ships can change their ammo to cope with differing targets/ranges...
And since the Missile has had a serious nerf with explosion velocity... this could bring back their usefulness.
It would be cool to see a cruise launcher fitted with a rocket pod (functioning like a script in current modules) and launch either: 1 Cruise 2 Heavy 4 Light (or 2 defenders) 8 Rockets
And with the new weapon linking system they would just come out in one glowing ball. (even though it would look cool if they flew separate)
|
procurement specialist
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 17:29:00 -
[15]
as far as rail guns go there is in theory a bs sized anti cruiser gun. the dual 250. no what should happen is it is changed to use medium charges at 2x the rof and a small damage multiplier over the normal 250mm. it tracking should be hurt a little but still able to shoot cruisers. currently it just kinda sucks though.
bs should be able to hit bc which is 1 size lower. they should have a problem with cruisers but not near immune.
|
Laechyd Eldgorn
Caldari Art of War Exalted.
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 18:53:00 -
[16]
you can fit any launchers on your ship if you want. tbh. it's just you don't get bonus.
|
Ansonya Triastolis
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 20:05:00 -
[17]
I think this sounds like a good idea (and should be used for turrets as well).
There should be modules available that are for larger ships but use smaller ammo at a higher rate of fire (think point defense guns).
Battleships should not have to equip the same modules as a frigate to be able to shoot frigates. It should have a battleship-class weapon that would be effective against frigates but ineffective against larger ships. The trade-off is that you have fewer weapons configured for your "main" target.
This would be good for both solo PvP and missioning.
|
FlameGlow
Legio Octae Rebellion Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.11.13 14:19:00 -
[18]
there is no real reason for not allowing big ships to specialize in killing smaller stuff. Although allowing to do it without refitting, like some ppl suggested here is way off - it has all the pros and none of the cons _____________ I don't care what is nerfed, as long as it's not my "undock" button. |
Mister Xerox
|
Posted - 2008.11.13 14:35:00 -
[19]
Edited by: Mister Xerox on 13/11/2008 14:35:34
Originally by: Ansonya Triastolis I think this sounds like a good idea (and should be used for turrets as well).
There should be modules available that are for larger ships but use smaller ammo at a higher rate of fire (think point defense guns).
Battleships should not have to equip the same modules as a frigate to be able to shoot frigates. It should have a battleship-class weapon that would be effective against frigates but ineffective against larger ships. The trade-off is that you have fewer weapons configured for your "main" target.
This would be good for both solo PvP and missioning.
Current modules need to be re-examined for practicality. Let's use Minmatar for an example, cruiser guns.
The Dual-180mm Autocannon should have all of the characteristics of a 180mm Autocannon (tracking, range, ROF), but do twice to three times the base damage with a focus on engaging targets smaller than the ship fitting them. Perhaps it should load Small ammo. The 220mm Vulcan would be the cruiser focused weapon it is now. The 425mm Autocannon would be par average vs/ cruisers, far less effective against frigs/dessies, but primarily be geared toward dealing out slightly better damage against targets larger than a cruiser (but not nearly as much as a BS weapon).
|
Salpad
Caldari Carebears with Attitude
|
Posted - 2008.11.13 18:18:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Clansworth Edited by: Clansworth on 06/11/2008 09:46:26 While I might agree with this, as the Assault launcher is currently a concept in it's own as of now, I feel it would be very hard to balance. The problem is that the heavy missile is far to 'versatile' for near-BS damage. It is VERY effective against cruisers, and can still hurt frigs pretty bad as well. BS's SHOULD have problems hurting frigs. All ships should have problems hitting 2 size categories below them. This isn't a problem with the assault launchers because there isn't really a '2 sizes below', unless you count drones.
The man is only asking for a super-version of the heavy missile launcher, that has the powergrid and CPU requirements comparable to a cruise/torpedo launcher, but which can store a larger quantity of heavy missiles and has a reasonable RoF bonus relative to a regular heavy missile launcher, of perhaps +33% RoF.
That's all he's asking for. He's not asking for a weapon that is good at all against battleship-sized targets.
-- Salpad |
|
Salpad
Caldari Carebears with Attitude
|
Posted - 2008.11.13 18:21:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Ansonya Triastolis I think this sounds like a good idea (and should be used for turrets as well).
Yes. IIRC there's some kind of dual railgun, 2x150mm or something, which could easily have its stats converted to become a cruiser-suitable anti-frigate weapon.
Same with lasers, blasters and so forth.
Also, there should be a medium drone that's meant for anti-frigate usage. 10 m3 size/bandwidth, tracking and so forth optimized for anti-frig work, and a 90% higher DPS than a light drone.
It isn't fair that only we Caldari get the choice of using a downscale (or whatever you call it) weapon. Drone users and turret weapon users should have that choice too.
-- Salpad |
Ansonya Triastolis
|
Posted - 2008.11.13 23:48:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Salpad
Originally by: Ansonya Triastolis I think this sounds like a good idea (and should be used for turrets as well).
Yes. IIRC there's some kind of dual railgun, 2x150mm or something, which could easily have its stats converted to become a cruiser-suitable anti-frigate weapon.
Same with lasers, blasters and so forth.
Also, there should be a medium drone that's meant for anti-frigate usage. 10 m3 size/bandwidth, tracking and so forth optimized for anti-frig work, and a 90% higher DPS than a light drone.
It isn't fair that only we Caldari get the choice of using a downscale (or whatever you call it) weapon. Drone users and turret weapon users should have that choice too.
Yes, there are turrets that match that description, but only partially. There are medium turrets that are a dual small turret, and large turrets that are a dual medium, but there is no large turret that is a multiple small turret and therefore frigate defense on a battleship is restricted to fitting cruiser-class (or less) weaponry.
For missiles, the ONLY current option is to use the module meant to be equipped on the class of ship you want to shoot.
As for the drones... Only few ships right now have spare drone space. The drones do a fantastic job against their appropriate ship classes right now. I'd rather see the actual weapons in the game first.
|
FlameGlow
Legio Octae Rebellion Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.11.14 07:09:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Ansonya Triastolis
Originally by: Salpad
Originally by: Ansonya Triastolis I think this sounds like a good idea (and should be used for turrets as well).
Yes. IIRC there's some kind of dual railgun, 2x150mm or something, which could easily have its stats converted to become a cruiser-suitable anti-frigate weapon.
Same with lasers, blasters and so forth.
Also, there should be a medium drone that's meant for anti-frigate usage. 10 m3 size/bandwidth, tracking and so forth optimized for anti-frig work, and a 90% higher DPS than a light drone.
It isn't fair that only we Caldari get the choice of using a downscale (or whatever you call it) weapon. Drone users and turret weapon users should have that choice too.
Y es, there are turrets that match that description, but only partially. There are medium turrets that are a dual small turret, and large turrets that are a dual medium, but there is no large turret that is a multiple small turret and therefore frigate defense on a battleship is restricted to fitting cruiser-class (or less) weaponry.
For missiles, the ONLY current option is to use the module meant to be equipped on the class of ship you want to shoot.
As for the drones... Only few ships right now have spare drone space. The drones do a fantastic job against their appropriate ship classes right now. I'd rather see the actual weapons in the game first.
Pretty much any BS can field both medium and light drones; even Caldari ships with tiny drone bay. If pilot decided to opt for heavy/sentry/logistics/ewar drones that's his choice, but the option is there. _____________ I don't care what is nerfed, as long as it's not my "undock" button. |
Mandi'boboo Zapelne
|
Posted - 2008.11.14 20:06:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Camdim An easy fix for missles and launchers would be to make it so that every launcher can use it's class of missles or smaller. So this would be a heavy laucher could use standard and heavy missles.
This would allow you to carry around all sizes of missles to load in your laucher depending on the target you want to kill. This already works for defender missles with rocket launchers for example.
This is one excellent idea, that would address some of the problems this patch have caused for missile using and missile based ship characters like myself.
As things are now, we have a lot of different kind of launchers that only can use its own type of missile. A problem others dont have, they can put in lets say medium ammo in one medium weapon regardless if its one AC or 650 mm artillery, same for neutrons regardless if it is one rail or blaster weapon.
But if we fit one assault launcher, we're stuck with the assult missiles, and same goes for other kinds such as when we got a cruise missile launcher fitted.
So this suggestion get a /signed |
|
|
|
Pages: [1] :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |