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12433412
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Posted - 2008.11.06 11:34:00 -
[1]
Here is the idea. While in the real life some tasks can only be performed by groups of people sharing the same goal, Eve does not reflect that. As of now, most of manufacturing is done in a DIY fashion where anybody can build anything (yeah, np, I can single-handedly build a titan in my garage as long as it's in 0.0) and cooperation is not rewarded. That is also why most manufacturing corporations (my guess) have mostly 1-3 industrial members. I want to see big industrial companies where people actually profit from working together.
So I propose: - shared manufacturing jobs where people can split their work and reduce the time needed to complete it - new Chief Engineer leadership skill that would further reduce manufacturing times and also cut waste by a fraction of percent for every manufacturing gang member (e.g. 0,1% material reduction per job participant); the maximum number of workers a chief engineer can manage would be skill based
I consier this a logical step. I also think it conveys with spirit of Eve where cooperation is encouraged. I see it in fleets. No reason why it's missing in manufacturing and perhaps even in research.
Any ideas welcome.
cheers,
124
_____________________________________________________ Beware of what you want, it might want you more! |
Daevonar
Minmatar Starfish Operating Syndicate
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Posted - 2008.11.06 11:36:00 -
[2]
+1 Dae.
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Cheopis
Ardishapur Ammunition and More
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Posted - 2008.11.06 12:15:00 -
[3]
Hmmm, something like this?
Industrial cooperation skill. Can cooperate on 1 existing manufacturing job per level
Each additional person cooperating on a job adds +1 to the effective ME and PE of a job
You select the jobs you add your cooperation to via the S & I interface
You can only cooperate on the jobs you are capable of starting yourself
Bonus ME minerals are only generated at the end of jobs, and are deposited in the same place as the built item.
If you stop cooperating on a job, your ME bonus is lost, your PE bonus is lost, and the effective PE of the job is then lowered by an additional one, resulting in the job taking even longer than if you had not started helping.
I like it :)
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12433412
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Posted - 2008.11.06 12:27:00 -
[4]
There should be bonuses, but not great ones; increasing ME could, however, make grouping up mandatory for T2 manufacturing where ME levels are so low; that might actually be a good idea since it would lower the difference between t2 bpo's and t2 bpc's and also it would require some cooperation in advanced t2 manufacturing which I find rather natural.
_____________________________________________________ Beware of what you want, it might want you more! |
Daevonar
Minmatar Starfish Operating Syndicate
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Posted - 2008.11.06 13:51:00 -
[5]
I'm always in favour of boosting teamplay.
I think you'll find the areguement will go along the lines of, as a capsuleer you are not actually constructing anything yourself, you are not 'on the workforce.' The construction of your item is carried out in manufactory (factory to those who only know the abbreviation), and are thus created by teams of hundreds of people (probably robots in any place other than Matari space) with the appropriate equipment to do so... you just provide the BP and ISK to make it happen... having two peopel supply a BP and money doesn't actually make the job any faster, better or whatever as it is not them who are carrying out the work.
Don't get me wrong I like the idea, but it needs some seious thought about how it fits within the gameworld. Dae.
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12433412
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Posted - 2008.11.06 14:17:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Daevonar I'm always in favour of boosting teamplay.
I think you'll find the areguement will go along the lines of, as a capsuleer you are not actually constructing anything yourself, you are not 'on the workforce.' The construction of your item is carried out in manufactory (factory to those who only know the abbreviation), and are thus created by teams of hundreds of people (probably robots in any place other than Matari space) with the appropriate equipment to do so... you just provide the BP and ISK to make it happen... having two peopel supply a BP and money doesn't actually make the job any faster, better or whatever as it is not them who are carrying out the work.
Don't get me wrong I like the idea, but it needs some seious thought about how it fits within the gameworld.
That argument, however, is inconsistent. Besides the blueprint, materials and assembly line rental isk, the player also provides skills that affect the job's efficiency and duration - therefore the player manages the job. This would be just another skill that does that, but takes into consideration the synergies of teamwork. I still believe 2 people should be able to do this better than one.
And yes, i can see the point. For every new engineer an additional manufacturing slot should be required - splitting the work on a difficult task into multiple simplier tasks. This was probably the intention with capital ship and t2 components, but with maximum 11 manufacturing slots a character does not really profit from the help of somebody else. A small manufacturing teams bonus would change that.
_____________________________________________________ Beware of what you want, it might want you more! |
Krystal Demishy
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Posted - 2008.11.06 14:31:00 -
[7]
Nice, i support this idea.
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Daevonar
Minmatar Starfish Operating Syndicate
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Posted - 2008.11.06 14:34:00 -
[8]
Good point, the skill requirements would be an indication of job management :)
And I assume that your idea would allow two seperate people with seperate skills to pool those skills together to meet the requirements of tech 2 items ... a very nice boost to team play indeed, and not exactly unbalanced as the same amount of time training has to be carried out, and probably more given that a lot of advanced skills will require the same pre-requisites.
Very nice (I'd already given it my +1 btw :) Dae.
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shady trader
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Posted - 2008.11.07 11:24:00 -
[9]
If you are looking at working together. Why not do it as an industrial gang? The gang leader has the new skill and starts the job. All other gang members have to be at the same station or within the range of the POS (at least the same system).
Each player is then considered to be using one of there production slots (based on skills).
This way it stops people just using there alt characters to provide the boost (they can still use alt account but it does limit the abuse).
The only other consideration I would like to see is the level of skills of the people involved. Say for each skill that a person has in the relevent frield they get a 0.2 bonus. For example if they have level 5 in materils effeiceny they increase the ME level by 1. This way the more skills in the gang the more is gained. Macrointel, the place were the nature order of the universe does not hold sway. Pirates and ore thief's are congrated by carebears for the actions. |
Hugh Ruka
Exploratio et Industria Morispatia
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Posted - 2008.11.07 11:42:00 -
[10]
while a nice idea, this actualy works in EVE.
you are forgeting that the manufacturer is just installing the job and not actualy building the thing. that's done byt the station factory or an assembly array.
the capital component assembly actualy features the same thing you want to achieve. there are more people building the components than there are people building final ships. a single person trying to build a capital ship will be slower, because he is limited by the number of slots he can use so he is able to split the work only to a limited number of jobs. however a proper corporation working on a project (say a freighter) can split the job of manufacturing the components into more factory slots, thus they don't need to wait for them as long.
truth is, the final ship build cannot be split up or sped up ... but that's a minor issue. --- SIG --- CSM: your support is needed ! |
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Sir Substance
Minmatar MagiTech Alliance Inc. MagiTech Corp
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Posted - 2008.11.07 11:48:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Hugh Ruka
you are forgeting that the manufacturer is just installing the job and not actualy building the thing. that's done byt the station factory or an assembly array.
actually, since pilot skills affect the mineral use, production speed and whatnot, it is hardly unreasonable to assume that the pilot is remote controlling the job via a FTL uplink. - PvPers always say "GB2WoW". the message is that EVE is hard, and people just need to deal with it. wasn't it funny how when nano's started making it hard for *them*, that all went out the window? |
12433412
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Posted - 2008.11.07 19:12:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Hugh Ruka while a nice idea, this actualy works in EVE.
you are forgeting that the manufacturer is just installing the job and not actualy building the thing. that's done byt the station factory or an assembly array.
the capital component assembly actualy features the same thing you want to achieve. there are more people building the components than there are people building final ships. a single person trying to build a capital ship will be slower, because he is limited by the number of slots he can use so he is able to split the work only to a limited number of jobs. however a proper corporation working on a project (say a freighter) can split the job of manufacturing the components into more factory slots, thus they don't need to wait for them as long.
truth is, the final ship build cannot be split up or sped up ... but that's a minor issue.
Actually as Sir Substance said (and me up the thread as well), since the player skills affect the time and material efficiency of the job, the job is apparently being managed by the player. More players joining together to complete the job would just manage it better, naturally.
As also mentioned before, capital ship and t2 components were a nice idea how to get people together. The one and very major counter to that is the 11 manufacturing jobs each character can manage at once. Eventually, nobody needs the help of a corp mate and can carry on the DIY'ing (or soloing if you wish).
I personally have 3 more people in my corp who can invent and build t2 stuff. The only moment I see they exist is when loking at corp jobs and the usage of our research slots. Even though I'd love to, I cannot join my forces with them to produce faster or more efficiently. We just live along side by side minding our own businesses. That's just not like Eve to me.
_____________________________________________________ Beware of what you want, it might want you more! |
Shinda Tenshi
Minmatar Maxwell's industries
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Posted - 2008.11.07 20:05:00 -
[13]
+1 nice idea War... War never changes...
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