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Beekeeper Bob
Beekeepers Anonymous
93
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Posted - 2012.04.05 16:19:00 -
[121] - Quote
Lt Angus wrote:Plex is great for noobs who dont want to grind their first bil and great for vets to play for free. Why anyone with more than 5mill SP would sell plex escapes me.
Many people play the game to enjoy it...not to work at it.... I see many people playing on plex only, but their focus in game is to earn isk for that next plex.....so they can continue playing/working?
Looking to stamp out apiphobia in my lifetime..... |
Zircon Dasher
128
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Posted - 2012.04.05 16:24:00 -
[122] - Quote
Micheal Dietrich wrote: What does a player do with the Plex one they have purchased it with isk?
If they are smart they relist it at a higher price |
Micheal Dietrich
Standards and Practices
200
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Posted - 2012.04.05 16:27:00 -
[123] - Quote
Zircon Dasher wrote:Micheal Dietrich wrote: What does a player do with the Plex one they have purchased it with isk? If they are smart they relist it at a higher price
That's not my issue at that point, I have already made my money. Besides that margin is what, maybe a mil at most?
What else would a player do with a Plex once they have purchased it with isk. |
Jacob Staffuer
State War Academy Caldari State
30
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Posted - 2012.04.05 16:39:00 -
[124] - Quote
Mugged Yougot wrote:I have not bothered reading all your posts,
Well there's you first mistake. As you've just witnessed, it's not entirely wise to respond to someone's statements when you haven't even read them and obviously have not taken the time to try understanding them. Now I wonder: in your case, is this the result of stupidity or just laziness?
Mugged Yougot wrote:but you are supporting the OP, thus you are either supporting the idea of regulating plex-prices, or remove it completely, and my point still stands.
It's better to admit you were wrong in the first place than to try employing bad logic to retroactively justify your mistake and save face - and in so doing make yourself look incredibly obtuse. So far all I've debated is the idea that PLEX is a form of P2W. I have made no judgements or proscriptions of P2W or PLEX. In fact, I have not stated my own opinion on the matter of P2W at all. And you would have enough this if you'd read any of my posts. So again: Your mistake. Your ego won't let you apologize, but I forgive you anyway because I'm a nice guy and I believe in second chances.
Mugged Yougot wrote:Now go practice some yoga and suck your own ****, you homosexual.
There's no point in getting upset, boy. Remember, "an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure". You could have avoided looking like an idiot and turning yourself into my biyatch by understanding what I was saying before responding and easing up on the assumptions. This is all entirely your own fault; don't be mad at me. |
Steel Wraith
39
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Posted - 2012.04.05 16:44:00 -
[125] - Quote
Beekeeper Bob wrote:Lt Angus wrote:Plex is great for noobs who dont want to grind their first bil and great for vets to play for free. Why anyone with more than 5mill SP would sell plex escapes me. Many people play the game to enjoy it...not to work at it.... I see many people playing on plex only, but their focus in game is to earn isk for that next plex.....so they can continue playing/working?
If someone enjoys the process of earning the isk they may not mind dropping some of it on a plex for game time. I don't know about grinding missions but I at least find exploration enjoyable. Hell, I even like designing/managing efficient PI colonies and could probably afford to pay for my account based on that.
But you have a point that, especially as a new player with lower isk-earning potential, you should make sure that you're enjoying your time in game and not just grinding it out. Just remember that paying your subscription with cash is effectively the same as buying a plex every month and selling for isk. |
Zircon Dasher
129
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Posted - 2012.04.05 16:45:00 -
[126] - Quote
Micheal Dietrich wrote:Zircon Dasher wrote:Micheal Dietrich wrote: What does a player do with the Plex one they have purchased it with isk? If they are smart they relist it at a higher price That's not my issue at that point, I have already made my money. Besides that margin is what, maybe a mil at most? What else would a player do with a Plex once they have purchased it with isk.
Oh I'm sorry. I did not realize this was a srs thread.
Carry on. |
Micheal Dietrich
Standards and Practices
200
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Posted - 2012.04.05 16:47:00 -
[127] - Quote
I doubt it ever really started as one. |
Steel Wraith
39
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Posted - 2012.04.05 16:49:00 -
[128] - Quote
Jacob Staffuer wrote:Mugged Yougot wrote:I have not bothered reading all your posts, Well there's you first mistake. As you've just witnessed, it's not entirely wise to respond to someone's statements when you haven't even read them and obviously have not taken the time to try understanding them. Now I wonder: in your case, is this the result of stupidity or just laziness?
When someone announces that they've won an argument on the internet and then starts typing about unzipping their pants, it's probably not worth the time to read whatever else they'd said, much less continue arguing with them. |
Jacob Staffuer
State War Academy Caldari State
30
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Posted - 2012.04.05 16:51:00 -
[129] - Quote
Steel Wraith wrote:Jacob Staffuer wrote:Mugged Yougot wrote:I have not bothered reading all your posts, Well there's you first mistake. As you've just witnessed, it's not entirely wise to respond to someone's statements when you haven't even read them and obviously have not taken the time to try understanding them. Now I wonder: in your case, is this the result of stupidity or just laziness? When someone announces that they've won an argument on the internet and then starts typing about unzipping their pants, it's probably not worth the time to read whatever else they'd said, much less continue arguing with them.
Using present events to justify past actions is a little screwy. And by "screwy" I mean "a ******** person's excuse". |
Micheal Dietrich
Standards and Practices
200
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Posted - 2012.04.05 16:52:00 -
[130] - Quote
Jacob Staffuer wrote:Steel Wraith wrote:Jacob Staffuer wrote:Mugged Yougot wrote:I have not bothered reading all your posts, Well there's you first mistake. As you've just witnessed, it's not entirely wise to respond to someone's statements when you haven't even read them and obviously have not taken the time to try understanding them. Now I wonder: in your case, is this the result of stupidity or just laziness? When someone announces that they've won an argument on the internet and then starts typing about unzipping their pants, it's probably not worth the time to read whatever else they'd said, much less continue arguing with them. Using present events to justify past actions is a little screwy. And by "screwy" I mean "a ******** person's excuse".
Actually you were saying things like that to Ranger1 yesterday as well. |
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Jacob Staffuer
State War Academy Caldari State
30
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Posted - 2012.04.05 16:55:00 -
[131] - Quote
Micheal Dietrich wrote:Jacob Staffuer wrote:Steel Wraith wrote:Jacob Staffuer wrote:Mugged Yougot wrote:I have not bothered reading all your posts, Well there's you first mistake. As you've just witnessed, it's not entirely wise to respond to someone's statements when you haven't even read them and obviously have not taken the time to try understanding them. Now I wonder: in your case, is this the result of stupidity or just laziness? When someone announces that they've won an argument on the internet and then starts typing about unzipping their pants, it's probably not worth the time to read whatever else they'd said, much less continue arguing with them. Using present events to justify past actions is a little screwy. And by "screwy" I mean "a ******** person's excuse". Actually you were saying things like that to Ranger1 yesterday as well.
Well he couldn't have known that since he didn't read my posts. ;)
Do you want to be my boytoy, too? |
Xpaulusx
V I R I I Ineluctable.
37
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Posted - 2012.04.05 16:55:00 -
[132] - Quote
Aranakas wrote:Ban PLEX. All pay-to-win must go! Bad idea, even though some like myself pay with credit card, it would lock alot of people out of the game, especially those with more than 2 accounts. Plex also drives our economy as well, it may have drastic consequences if removed as a result. |
Micheal Dietrich
Standards and Practices
200
|
Posted - 2012.04.05 16:59:00 -
[133] - Quote
Jacob Staffuer wrote:Micheal Dietrich wrote:Jacob Staffuer wrote:Steel Wraith wrote:Jacob Staffuer wrote:
Well there's you first mistake. As you've just witnessed, it's not entirely wise to respond to someone's statements when you haven't even read them and obviously have not taken the time to try understanding them. Now I wonder: in your case, is this the result of stupidity or just laziness?
When someone announces that they've won an argument on the internet and then starts typing about unzipping their pants, it's probably not worth the time to read whatever else they'd said, much less continue arguing with them. Using present events to justify past actions is a little screwy. And by "screwy" I mean "a ******** person's excuse". Actually you were saying things like that to Ranger1 yesterday as well. Well he couldn't have known that since he didn't read my posts. ;) Do you want to be my boytoy, too?
Sure, tell me your main's name and I'll come on over for a little wine and some sweet sweet lovin. |
Jacob Staffuer
State War Academy Caldari State
30
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Posted - 2012.04.05 17:02:00 -
[134] - Quote
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Micheal Dietrich
Standards and Practices
200
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Posted - 2012.04.05 17:03:00 -
[135] - Quote
Jacob Staffuer wrote:broken link
You ****** something up.
Don't tell me you're nothing more than pillowtalk and overcompensation now. |
Jacob Staffuer
State War Academy Caldari State
30
|
Posted - 2012.04.05 17:06:00 -
[136] - Quote
Micheal Dietrich wrote:*desperate attempts at mudslinging*
Awww are you going to start smashing your toys against the floor now, too? |
Virgil Travis
GWA Corp
91
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Posted - 2012.04.05 17:06:00 -
[137] - Quote
It's past your bedtime, your just getting cranky Roses are red. Bacon is also red. Poems are hard. Bacon. |
Jacob Staffuer
State War Academy Caldari State
30
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Posted - 2012.04.05 17:09:00 -
[138] - Quote
The people making fools of themselves shouldn't be mad at me, they should be mad at themselves. |
Zircon Dasher
129
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Posted - 2012.04.05 17:12:00 -
[139] - Quote
Xpaulusx wrote:Aranakas wrote:Ban PLEX. All pay-to-win must go! Bad idea, even though some like myself pay with credit card, it would lock alot of people out of the game, especially those with more than 2 accounts. Plex also drives our economy as well, it may have drastic consequences if removed as a result.
There are a lot of people who would not need more than 2 accounts if there was no such thing as plex. Sometimes 4 accounts will pay for themselves + give side money, where 2 accounts will not.
Additionally, less alt armies are not necessarily a bad thing for EVE or the economy. |
Jacob Staffuer
State War Academy Caldari State
31
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Posted - 2012.04.05 17:15:00 -
[140] - Quote
Zircon Dasher wrote:Xpaulusx wrote:Aranakas wrote:Ban PLEX. All pay-to-win must go! Bad idea, even though some like myself pay with credit card, it would lock alot of people out of the game, especially those with more than 2 accounts. Plex also drives our economy as well, it may have drastic consequences if removed as a result. There are a lot of people who would not need more than 2 accounts if there was no such thing as plex. Sometimes 4 accounts will pay for themselves + give side money, where 2 accounts will not. Additionally, less alt armies are not necessarily a bad thing for EVE or the economy.
This is a very strong point. Most of the players I know who created 2nd, 3rd, and 4th accounts did so in order to chase that monthly PLEX. And if you read that blog with the mined quotes from the banned botters, many of them say things like "waa with my 4 bot accounts banned I'll never be able to afford my PLEX waaa waaa." |
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Nub Sauce
State War Academy Caldari State
20
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Posted - 2012.04.05 18:18:00 -
[141] - Quote
Acknowledging that PLEX is a form of pay to win is far different than saying it should be removed from the game.
Currently, being a legal form of RMT that pays CCP instead of a sh*thead, it's a decent tool to fight illegal RMT.
However, it is still far from perfect. It's still a vehicle that bridges the real life world economy with the in game economy in a very direct way - which is ultimately a bad thing. But, at least the market decide's it's value rather than some ISK farmer with a bot army. |
Prince Kobol
518
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Posted - 2012.04.05 18:19:00 -
[142] - Quote
Aranakas wrote:PLEX gives you access to "game time". ROFL. You don't trade it in for a time machine, you trade it in for isk.
By that logic, if I went and bought drugs its okay, because I'm buying the time it would take to go to Morocco where they're legal and get stoned off my ass and come back.
Trading PLEX for isk is an option, that is all.
You can be scammed out of it or lose it by getting your ship blown up.
The only guaranteed action that PLEX gives is adding 30 days account time.
Also you have the worst logic in the world lol |
GondriA
BLUE EAGLES Pinked
6
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Posted - 2012.04.05 18:21:00 -
[143] - Quote
Nub Sauce wrote:Acknowledging that PLEX is a form of pay to win is far different than saying it should be removed from the game.
Currently, being a legal form of RMT that pays CCP instead of a sh*thead, it's a decent tool to fight illegal RMT.
However, it is still far from perfect. It's still a vehicle that bridges the real life world economy with the in game economy in a very direct way - which is ultimately a bad thing. But, at least the market decide's it's value rather than some ISK farmer with a bot army.
why plex is a form of pay to win? |
Markus Reese
Debitum Naturae ROMANIAN-LEGION
110
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Posted - 2012.04.05 18:28:00 -
[144] - Quote
Alright, another more posts than I care to read, but points I see.
Pay for plex =/= pay to win
It does not actually give a substantial advantage over another player. The ships they can buy with that isk is not any more powerful than that which can be played to earn. They just can replace losses easier. The dollar cost of high end faction/caps etc is quite high and out of reach of a majority of players. It won't break game balance.
For combat where actual losses will make a difference is sov battle. However sov control is about numbers. If two 200 man fleets square off, lose 50 per side, and only one side spends to buy real ships, that does get an advantage. In terms of a hellcat fleet, 50 abaddons will mean 50 plex. That is alot of dollars. Most likely, that sort of player mix will never happen.
If an alliance was made up of pay to win players, they would probably be outnumbered so the pay to win would not give an advantage. Ergo in my opinion, plex does not cause an unfair advantage. It just means that those of us who don't buy and sell isk have to play a bit more careful and make sure our corp/alliance has ship replacement. I fly pvp to alliance specs, no extra cost on my part. |
Raven Ether
Republic University Minmatar Republic
131
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Posted - 2012.04.05 18:33:00 -
[145] - Quote
Vanir Tsero wrote:You clearly don't understand what "Pay to Win" actually is.
Pay To Win is where you pay real money for ships that are not obtainable in game with Isk.
For Example:
If CCP Sold a Tech 4 Battlecruiser for $25.00 That is considered Pay to Win. If CCP Sold Tech 3 Ammo for $15.00 for a count of 5,000 That is considered Pay To Win.
If CCP Sold an In-Game item for $20.00 that can be traded in game for in-game currency... That is NOT Pay To Win. Why? Because it gives noone an advantage. The 600,000,000 ISK I got from selling the Plex on the market, 7,000 other players just made by running Incursions for a few hours.
Your ignorance bothers me for some reason. :(
/thread
OP is ********, to even trashtalk about PLEX.
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Xpaulusx
V I R I I Ineluctable.
37
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Posted - 2012.04.05 18:54:00 -
[146] - Quote
Both sides argueing over plex have valid points, heres a reality check, CCP wil never even remotely condider removing it from the game for obvious reasons, even with the problems it presents. CCP is finally dealing with RMT & Bot problems aggressively, so i would think that would be their position on not removing plex from the game.
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Nub Sauce
State War Academy Caldari State
20
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Posted - 2012.04.05 19:00:00 -
[147] - Quote
GondriA wrote:Nub Sauce wrote:Acknowledging that PLEX is a form of pay to win is far different than saying it should be removed from the game.
Currently, being a legal form of RMT that pays CCP instead of a sh*thead, it's a decent tool to fight illegal RMT.
However, it is still far from perfect. It's still a vehicle that bridges the real life world economy with the in game economy in a very direct way - which is ultimately a bad thing. But, at least the market decide's it's value rather than some ISK farmer with a bot army. why plex is a form of pay to win?
Already explained in my earlier posts in this thread. |
Nub Sauce
State War Academy Caldari State
20
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Posted - 2012.04.05 19:04:00 -
[148] - Quote
Markus Reese wrote: It just means that those of us who don't buy and sell isk have to play a bit more careful and make sure our corp/alliance has ship replacement.
Precisely, they have to play to win rather than pay to win.
Playing to earn isk is playing to win. Paying $$ for isk is paying to win. Isk is not the only factor for victory, however it isk is a form of power in EVE. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
5929
|
Posted - 2012.04.05 19:10:00 -
[149] - Quote
Nub Sauce wrote:GondriA wrote:why plex is a form of pay to win? Already explained in my earlier posts in this thread. GǪand it still isn't.
PLEX adds nothing to the game, and that alone completely removes any chance of it being P2W. Also, you're not getting any kind of GÇ£winGÇ¥ for your money. You're paying for game time GÇö that's all GÇö and you trade that game time for the exact same things as everyone else already has and uses. If PLEX is pay-to-win, then so is station-trading with a subscribed account. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Find more rants over at Tippis' Rants. |
Nub Sauce
State War Academy Caldari State
21
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Posted - 2012.04.05 20:04:00 -
[150] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Nub Sauce wrote:GondriA wrote:why plex is a form of pay to win? Already explained in my earlier posts in this thread. GǪand it still isn't. PLEX adds nothing to the game, and that alone completely removes any chance of it being P2W. Also, you're not getting any kind of GÇ£winGÇ¥ for your money. You're paying for game time GÇö that's all GÇö and you trade that game time for the exact same things as everyone else already has and uses. If PLEX is pay-to-win, then so is station-trading with a subscribed account.
If only that were true. Unfortunately, it's not.
If you were actually paying for game time then you would just pay the subscription fee. People who buy PLEX with $$ are not doing it for the game time.
PLEX adding or subracting anything from the game does not change the fact that it's a vehicle to convert $$ to ISK. Does illegal RMT add anything to the game? No more or less than PLEX does. The difference between PLEX (legal RMT) and illegal RMT is that CCP gets the $$ and the market controls the amount of ISK you get for $$.
To be clear, I'm not talking about the person purchasing PLEX with ISK in the slightest. They are not the ones converting $$ to ISK regardless of them being a necessity for the conversion to take place. What they do with the PLEX after buying it with ISK is irrelevant. They could turn it into aurum or eject it into space, it makes no difference. The point is that PLEX is a vehicle to convert $$ into ISK, which is the basic principle of pay to win.
And again, in case it's not obvious, people with a purchased advantage can still lose but that does not negate the fact that they purchased an in game advantage with real $$. |
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