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Elijah Craig
Trask Industries Li3 Federation
4
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Posted - 2012.04.04 21:50:00 -
[1] - Quote
http://community.eveonline.com/en/inferno/features/
Loot Table Changes Show Some Industrialist Love
n++NPC ships will no longer drop manufacturable T1 loot. NPCs will continue to drop modules, however T1 items which have a blueprint will no longer drop, making player manufacturing the primary source for these items.
Bountiful Drone Rewards
Alloys have been removed from the rogue drones, and bounties have been added to them to bring them in line with other faction mobs. Players no longer have to gather a cargo hold full of alloys to make rogue drone hunting lucrative.
Incursion Iteration
The rewards and challenges of Sansha invasion fleets in Incursion content have been revisited to better balance challenge and reward. Vanguard invasions will now take a bit longer, while the time to complete an Assault invasions will be reduced some. In addition, the ISK reward of Vanguard invasions has been changed to bring the reward in line with the difficulty/risk.
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Gilbaron
Free-Space-Ranger Ev0ke
178
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Posted - 2012.04.04 22:07:00 -
[2] - Quote
these are some excellent news ! |
Herman Klaus
Touched By Klaus
44
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Posted - 2012.04.04 22:12:00 -
[3] - Quote
The Incursion change will bring so many tears! |
Patri Andari
Thukker Tribe Antiquities Importer
75
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Posted - 2012.04.04 22:30:00 -
[4] - Quote
Is this REAL? If so, does that mean the end to ammo drops?
Patri
Miners! Make Moar Isks Nao! |
Selene D'Celeste
The D'Celeste Trading Company ISK Six
322
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Posted - 2012.04.04 22:33:00 -
[5] - Quote
Yay fixing things and chaos!
Visit www.eohpoker.com and enjoy EVE's oldest ISK gaming service! |
corestwo
Goonfleet Investment Banking
142
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Posted - 2012.04.04 22:42:00 -
[6] - Quote
Patri Andari wrote:Is this REAL? If so, does that mean the end to ammo drops?
No, the link directly to CCP's website is fake, you've been taken in by an elaborate dupe.
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Adunh Slavy
Ammatar Trade Syndicate
504
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Posted - 2012.04.04 22:57:00 -
[7] - Quote
Patri Andari wrote:Is this REAL? If so, does that mean the end to ammo drops?
By my reading of it, yes. Of course we'll have to wait and see what lands. I hope I am reading it right. |
corestwo
Goonfleet Investment Banking
143
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Posted - 2012.04.04 23:01:00 -
[8] - Quote
I should note to everyone that this means that Scrapyard Bob's already hilariously low price estimates are now even hilariously lower. Or to put it another way, minerals are going to rise even more than they were already going to. |
Elijah Craig
Trask Industries Li3 Federation
4
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Posted - 2012.04.04 23:01:00 -
[9] - Quote
This is the official Eve website. This is not a trick
For transparency, I heard about the link from this tweet from the CSM member Two Step:-
Two Step's Twitter post |
Deen Wispa
Screaming War Eagles Incorporated
218
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Posted - 2012.04.04 23:04:00 -
[10] - Quote
If NPCs won't drop manufacturable loot, then what will it drop? What type of loot isn't manufacturable? . |
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Elijah Craig
Trask Industries Li3 Federation
4
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Posted - 2012.04.04 23:13:00 -
[11] - Quote
Deen Wispa wrote:If NPCs won't drop manufacturable loot, then what will it drop? What type of loot isn't manufacturable?
Meta 1-4 items
For example:-
Medium Beam Laser I (Meta 0) - No longer in Loot Drops, will now only be manufactured by players from BPOs / BPCs Medium Afocal Maser I (Meta 1) - Loots Drops Medium Modal Laser I (Meta 2) - Loot Drops Medium Anode Particle Stream I (Meta 3) - Loot Drops Medium Modulated Energy Beam I (Meta 4) - Loot Drops Medium Beam Laser II (Tech 2 / Meta 5) - Already only available from invention / player manufacture from BPCs |
Breaker77
Reclamation Industries
55
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Posted - 2012.04.05 00:45:00 -
[12] - Quote
Elijah Craig wrote:Deen Wispa wrote:If NPCs won't drop manufacturable loot, then what will it drop? What type of loot isn't manufacturable? Meta 1-4 items For example:- Medium Beam Laser I (Meta 0) - No longer in Loot Drops, will now only be manufactured by players from BPOs / BPCs Medium Afocal Maser I (Meta 1) - Loots Drops Medium Modal Laser I (Meta 2) - Loot Drops Medium Anode Particle Stream I (Meta 3) - Loot Drops Medium Modulated Energy Beam I (Meta 4) - Loot Drops Medium Beam Laser II (Tech 2 / Meta 5) - Already only available from invention / player manufacture from BPCs
I'm sorry these items will no longer be ingame due to CCP removing them. They will be replace with gay names that will force everyone to have to relearn them while they still won't make any sense.
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Claire Voyant
105
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Posted - 2012.04.05 01:47:00 -
[13] - Quote
Breaker77 wrote:I'm sorry these items will no longer be ingame due to CCP removing them. They will be replace with gay names that will force everyone to have to relearn them while they still won't make any sense.
gayer names . . . not that there's anything wrong with that. |
Scrapyard Bob
EVE University Ivy League
825
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Posted - 2012.04.05 02:23:00 -
[14] - Quote
corestwo wrote:I should note to everyone that this means that Scrapyard Bob's already hilariously low price estimates are now even hilariously lower. Or to put it another way, minerals are going to rise even more than they were already going to.
(chuckle)
This will have an effect, but I don't know how much. Anyone have recent (within the past year) information on how much mineral supply came from re-proc of meta-zero items? And knows for sure how much of that number came from shipping of minerals around using mineral compression (which will not be impacted)?
Current prices (approx):
Veld 159 Scor 141 Pyro 198 Plag 158 Omb 96 Kern 160 Jasp 231 Hemo 265 Hedb 258 Gneiss 159 DarkO 248 Spod 123 Croc 334 Bist 354 Ark 438 Trit 5.31 Pye 6.34 Mex 53.98 Iso 85.85 Nocx 767 Zyd 1632 Mega 3386 Morph 9063
If we ignore Omber (which lives in its own little world) and only look at the remaining hi-sec ores, the ratio between the 2nd worst ore and the best ore has traditionally ranged between 1.2 and 1.5 depending on how volatile things are. When things are turbulent, you'll see the best ore at 50% more ISK/m3 then the 2nd worst. When things quiet down, that narrows back towards 1.2-1.3.
Right now, that ratio stands at 198/141 or about 1.40.
If we assume:
Veld 188 Scor 167 Pyro 228 Plag 178 Omb 112 Kern 182 Jasp 269 Hemo 309 Hedb 299 Gneiss 177 DarkO 282 Spod 128 Croc 373 Bist 378 Ark 458 Trit 6.25 Pye 7.5 Mex 60 Iso 100 Nocx 900 Zyd 1800 Mega 3500 Morph 9500
Then the ratio ends up at 228/167 or 1.36. Within reason.
If we let Nocx/Zyd/Mega float up a bit more:
Veld 188 Scor 167 Pyro 261 Plag 178 Omb 112 Kern 182 Jasp 347 Hemo 405 Hedb 383 Gneiss 228 DarkO 375 Spod 146 Croc 498 Bist 469 Ark 541 Trit 6.25 Pye 7.5 Mex 60 Iso 100 Nocx 1200 Zyd 2400 Mega 4000 Morph 9500
Which puts that ratio at 261/167 or 1.56. That's on the high-side. The lower-end minerals would have to also rise up to narrow the gap, or the high ends would have to tumble back down a bit.
Given a target of about 500 ISK/m3 for the ABCs, and keeping that ratio at 1.4 or so.
Veld 195 Scor 188 Pyro 268 Plag 193 Omb 164 Kern 227 Jasp 349 Hemo 412 Hedb 407 Gneiss 237 DarkO 376 Spod 146 Croc 498 Bist 469 Ark 541 Trit 6.5 Pye 9.5 Mex 62.5 Iso 150 Nocx 1200 Zyd 2400 Mega 4000 Morph 9500
Again, that's by looking at the supply-side numbers from mining and assumes that if the ratio gets too large that they will move around to chase the better ores. I'm not sure that Nocx can stay at 1200, not unless every last scrap of Pyrox in hi-sec gets mined out every day. |
Selene D'Celeste
The D'Celeste Trading Company ISK Six
328
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Posted - 2012.04.05 02:47:00 -
[15] - Quote
I haven't paid proper attention in -years-, but if I recall the mineral volume from modules in caldari space alone used to be something like ... 25-30% of all mineral volume in Jita? Maybe? Then there was the battleship mod nerf, and now this. I can't imagine this dropping the mineral supply by more than say 5% in addition to the other changes since most of the mods that still reprocess to anything useful (like armor plates) have the same mineral breakdown in the meta 1-4 as meta 0. There's a chance that one of the lower volume minerals gets 5%+ from module reprocessing, but I would have no idea where that weak point might be.
Ugh, trying to remember how this all worked is painful.
Visit www.eohpoker.com and enjoy EVE's oldest ISK gaming service! |
Farley genocent
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
0
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Posted - 2012.04.05 07:31:00 -
[16] - Quote
I'd like to see what 'drone faction' items have been added to the drone regions.
If they are truly to be brought in line with other factions, taking away the minerals they should have the faction items just like everyone else.
I'd be very impressed if anyone at CCP remembered this bit. |
Raven Ether
Republic University Minmatar Republic
128
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Posted - 2012.04.05 10:13:00 -
[17] - Quote
OMG!!! AWESOME CHANGES!
I'M ******* RICH!! |
Arec Bardwin
Perkone Caldari State
268
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Posted - 2012.04.05 11:02:00 -
[18] - Quote
Farley genocent wrote:I'd like to see what 'drone faction' items have been added to the drone regions.
If they are truly to be brought in line with other factions, taking away the minerals they should have the faction items just like everyone else.
I'd be very impressed if anyone at CCP remembered this bit. 'Infested Armor Plates' with inherent self-generation
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Claire Voyant
108
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Posted - 2012.04.05 18:10:00 -
[19] - Quote
Elijah Craig wrote:http://community.eveonline.com/en/inferno/features/
======== Quote:-
1. Loot Table Changes Show Some Industrialist Love
n++NPC ships will no longer drop manufacturable T1 loot. NPCs will continue to drop modules, however T1 items which have a blueprint will no longer drop, making player manufacturing the primary source for these items. I was wondering about the wording of this. It seems to me that they could be just trying to keep better track of what happens to loot (is it reprocessed, used, destroyed, resold, or just stuck in a hangar.) Having meta 0 modules come from both players and loot means that there may be some issues analyzing the data.
For example, if I loot a meta 2 module and stick it in my hangar for some undefined point in the future, it is pretty clear that those minerals really haven't entered the game in the same way they would be if I reprocessed it. Presumably most drone loot gets reprocessed, as does most ore, but how much of the NPC loot gets reprocessed? It is probably just easier to tell what that is if you can separate out player manufactured items from the loot drops.
So basically, I am thinking that they are going to be replacing meta 0 modules with more meta 1-2 modules. Not so sure about ammo, but I presume they will try to keep the value of drops fairly consistent to what it has been in the past. Soundwave was very tentative about reducing isk bounties by 10% at some point in the distant future to reduce isk sources, so I kind of doubt he is going to nerf the value of loot drops by any significant amount. |
Lecherito
Swag Incorporated
3
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Posted - 2012.04.05 18:32:00 -
[20] - Quote
Very, very good changes.
Going to be a very interesting summer, indeed.
Bravo, CCP.
-L |
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Mongo Travler
Royal Order of Security Specialists Support
3
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Posted - 2012.04.05 18:54:00 -
[21] - Quote
I wonder if they are going to increase the drops of meta 1-4 items to offset the loss of meta 0 items from the loot table. If so I don't think that the change will make much of difference people will just reprocess Meta 1 and 2 items as they will get even cheaper to purchase.
Overall I think the changes will slow things down a bit. Making minerals more expensive and turning down an isk faucet will decrease risk taking as it will take longer to recoup from a loss. |
Riley Moore
Sentinum Research
411
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Posted - 2012.04.05 19:02:00 -
[22] - Quote
Mongo Travler wrote:I wonder if they are going to increase the drops of meta 1-4 items to offset the loss of meta 0 items from the loot table. If so I don't think that the change will make much of difference people will just reprocess Meta 1 and 2 items as they will get even cheaper to purchase.
Overall I think the changes will slow things down a bit. Making minerals more expensive and turning down an isk faucet will decrease risk taking as it will take longer to recoup from a loss.
Probably not, that would cause meta 1-4 items to eventually become cheaper /same then/as meta 0 stuff. The point of meta 1-4 is that it's better but rarer.
Large volumes of highly researched Ammo, drones, charges and ship bpo's. Biggest BPO store in EVE! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=445524#post445524 |
Dirk Decibel
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
21
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Posted - 2012.04.05 19:13:00 -
[23] - Quote
What I'm worried about: what will this mean for the meta 4-3 mod prices? Crashing into the ground? |
Brock Nelson
544
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Posted - 2012.04.05 19:30:00 -
[24] - Quote
Dirk Decibel wrote:What I'm worried about: what will this mean for the meta 4-3 mod prices? Crashing into the ground?
I think you're getting a little ahead of yourself. CCP hasn't stated if they will or will not replace the T1 with other metas. Signature removed, CCP Phantom |
Elijah Craig
Trask Industries Li3 Federation
8
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Posted - 2012.04.05 19:58:00 -
[25] - Quote
Brock Nelson wrote:Dirk Decibel wrote:What I'm worried about: what will this mean for the meta 4-3 mod prices? Crashing into the ground? I think you're getting a little ahead of yourself. CCP hasn't stated if they will or will not replace the T1 with other metas.
Agreed - I read it that the new plan is to simply remove Meta 0 items from drops, and therefore reduce the overall loot drop value. I don't see any suggestion that they will preserve the overall "basket value" of the loot drops by increasing the amount of Meta 1-4 to compensate. Though I could be wrong.
This would eliminate Meta 0 re-precessing as a source of minerals (thus increasing mineral value) whilst also maintaining the current levels of Meta 1-4 drops (so their prices will stay the same).
(As an aside - would mission runners even bother to loot their wrecks knowing there is less value in doing so? Would that also drive up Meta 1-4 items since overall there is less money is looting your missions?) |
Droxlyn
TOHA Heavy Industries TOHA Conglomerate
69
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Posted - 2012.04.05 20:27:00 -
[26] - Quote
The question for a loot table is "Are the values that were T1 items being seeded with different values, or is the over-all size of the loot table being reduced?"
If the T1 items are being filled in with say "Metal Scraps" then the frequency of the Meta items remains the same. (table has 10 slots, some are now "Metal Scraps" or "Nothing") If the T1 items are being removed from the list such that the list is now shorter, then the meta items will have a larger chance of being on the ships. (table has 6 slots instead of 10)
Or do the loot tables work in some other way? |
Herping yourDerp
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
463
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Posted - 2012.04.05 20:42:00 -
[27] - Quote
chances are t1 items will now drop metal scraps instead of the meta 0 item... this poses the question who uses t1 anything anyways... when meta 1 is usually
the same price better same or better fitting same skills needed
i don't see a huge demand for meta 1 cruise launchers ect... it might get better then now but not by much. minerals will go up though as meta 0 loot was almost always scrapped for the minerals. |
Sizeof Void
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
202
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Posted - 2012.04.06 10:12:00 -
[28] - Quote
Riley Moore wrote:Mongo Travler wrote:I wonder if they are going to increase the drops of meta 1-4 items to offset the loss of meta 0 items from the loot table. If so I don't think that the change will make much of difference people will just reprocess Meta 1 and 2 items as they will get even cheaper to purchase.
Overall I think the changes will slow things down a bit. Making minerals more expensive and turning down an isk faucet will decrease risk taking as it will take longer to recoup from a loss. Probably not, that would cause meta 1-4 items to eventually become cheaper /same then/as meta 0 stuff. The point of meta 1-4 is that it's better but rarer. Actually, this isn't altogether true, and it is a risky speculation. In the past, they have indeed overly increased the drop rates of certain meta items, making some of them as common and cheap as T1 modules, and, in a few cases, cheaper and better than the T2 modules.
In fact, I'm not exactly sure why they are bothering with this sort of change. If they eliminate the T1 drops, but the overall drop quantity remains unchanged, then Mongo is correct - folks will just reprocess the meta items as quantities increase and the prices on them drop. The only real effect will be that demand for T1 modules will likely drop, since there will be plenty more meta items available at a cheap price.
If they elminate the T1 drops, but keep the overall quantities of meta item drops as they are now, then you'll see a surge in mineral prices across the board, since reprocessing will take a hit. The cost of manufacturing T1 modules will subsequently rise, but the low meta items will probably end up still being as cheap as T1, since they will still be easily harvested by running L4 missions. I don't know about most of you other folks, but I can't use up all of the meta modules I've collected from mission loot - no way.
I'm tired and I'm probably missing something, but, exactly, how does this help T1 manufacturing?
Now, if you eliminate loot drops completely..... |
Weed Probe
Trotters Independent Research
5
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Posted - 2012.04.06 14:42:00 -
[29] - Quote
Do they nerf ganking ? |
Brewlar Kuvakei
Adeptio Gloriae
31
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Posted - 2012.04.06 14:52:00 -
[30] - Quote
Patri Andari wrote:Is this REAL? If so, does that mean the end to ammo drops?
Ooooh good question? Ammo is bpc and bpo. you sir.... |
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