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Wendat Huron
Stellar Solutions
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Posted - 2008.11.10 15:52:00 -
[1]
Is there any that dare say they're not interested in a gooned out council?
I think it's a fair question because I for sure will base my decision and cast my vote on someone anti-goon.
These forums are FUBAR, upgrade this decade! |
Darius JOHNSON
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.11.10 16:08:00 -
[2]
Originally by: Wendat Huron Is there any that dare say they're not interested in a gooned out council?
I think it's a fair question because I for sure will base my decision and cast my vote on someone anti-goon.
I for one am running on an anti-Stellar Solutions platform.
Originally by: Iroku Mata Darius is time to STFU and make your GSM place free for someone who got the humildity to have the job you claim and failled!
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DjLowballer
Amarr FLASHTROOPER CORP
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Posted - 2008.11.10 16:12:00 -
[3]
I guess it is a fair question, but also potential suicide for a campaign. But alas, I will bite.
I am not specifically anti-goon. I respect them what they have done in our game, how big they have become, and will admit that hearing tales of the goonswarm is part of what got me back into playing EvE. Love them or hate them, they are a force to be reckoned with.
That said I am not specifically Pro-Goon. Rather I would prefer to put alliances aside and try and find out what is best for EvE and act from there. If a proposal is also in the goon¦s best interest, great! Else their influence will not sway me.
In real life I am always thrust into a leadership position due to my outgoing personality and work ethic. I have been at the helm of Student governments, Sports teams, clubs, and random political activists groups for as long as I can remember.Even as a child I always ended up leading team B in gym. With all of this experience I know what it takes to be firm yet not to the point of being hard headed. My will is strong and if elected you do not have to worry about me being "gooned" or what have you.
Finally, do not base your vote on a totally anti-goon platform. What if they actually were all the best candidates and could have done great things for EvE? Please Vote DjLowballer as your delegate to the CSM! |
Goumindong
Amarr Merch Industrial GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.11.10 16:31:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Wendat Huron Is there any that dare say they're not interested in a gooned out council?
I think it's a fair question because I for sure will base my decision and cast my vote on someone anti-goon.
What does anti-goon mean? Does it mean that they are against the interests of goons? Does it mean they are against the interest of large 0.0 alliances?
Because goons are players like anyone else, we like to have fun, and we do it within the context of 0.0 sovereignty warfare. This means that we want 0.0 sovereignty warfare to be fun, and all aspects of the game that we partake in to be fun.
I suppose if you are against having fun in 0.0 and against having fun in other aspects of the game voting against a goon makes sense. It also makes sense if you are looking for someone who is going to focus more on low-sec or high-sec issues. Otherwise you should look at specific ideals that each candidate has and make a decision based on that.
Darius for example has a pretty strong record for arguing for things that would weaken the position of the Goonswarm alliance as a 0.0 power. He does this because the power of Goonswarm doesn't mean anything if goons aren't having fun. At least, that is how I see it, maybe he is just griefing us.
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Ankhesentapemkah
Gallente Aliastra
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Posted - 2008.11.10 16:34:00 -
[5]
I admit I would gnash my teeth a bit if we would get 5+ Goons in the CSM (I assume that's what the OP meant with 'getting gooned out of council'), but I don't think that being anti-Goon in the CSM would get anyone anywhere. We already had enough conflicts during the first CSM and it was very counter-productive. The CSM needs to work together and represent the players, Goons and non-Goons alike.
In the end it is not up to me who has the right to be on the CSM, it is the players decission. If a large amount of players vote for Goons, then we have to respect their decission, as well as respect the council members they advocated.
If you don't like Goons, that is fine, and you can use your influence to vote or lobby for someone else. But starting a conflict, especially after elections, is disastrous and should be one of the things I, and I hope you as well, learned from the first CSM. ---
NEW MOVIE! CSM Campaign Thread |
Arithron
Gallente Gallente Trade Alliance
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Posted - 2008.11.10 20:39:00 -
[6]
Anti-Goon? You mean, will I let the in-game politics/events carry over to a PLAYER body that meets in real life, to discuss whole game issues?
I won't! In-game remains firmly there. I am working on the principles that all those that have stood for the CSM have stood for the right reasons, and wish to make the game that we all enjoy (all players enjoy it, otherwise they wouldn't play) better. Darius has shown himself to be a good, intelligent and useful member of the CSM last round. It was just a shame that many CSM members couldn't put in-game alliances and politics aside.
Eve allows for many different playstyles, which is why it's such a rich and entertaining place to reside away from the real world. I don't think it follows that a player's style reflects in any meaningful way their RL ability to be part of a council. There is the possibility this round of 7 members of Goonsquad getting onto the CSM. So long as they are there for the right reasons, and are prepared to listen and represent players, does that really matter? Is it any worse than CSM members being on the council, and running for the council, with the stated aim of catching CCP's eye for internship?
I find it interesting how there is always one large alliance that everyone loves to hate...a few years ago it was BoB, now it's Goons...hopefully in a couple of years it's the Gallente Trade Alliance!
Take care, Arithron Vote Arithron for CSM! Check out my thread: http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=899358 |
Issler Dainze
Minmatar Tadakastu-Obata Corporation The Honda Accord
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Posted - 2008.11.10 21:01:00 -
[7]
Anti? No, I think Eve is about freedom. The goons certainly push that envelope. I am however worried that too many goons in the council could defeat its purpose.
I would also like to see the goon candidates officially renounce the once proclaimed goal of the goons to "destroy Eve".
Issler
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Arithron
Gallente Gallente Trade Alliance
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Posted - 2008.11.10 21:03:00 -
[8]
Destroy Eve? They are doing a pretty good job so far, just a goodly-sized chunk of 0.0 to go, plus Empire....
PvP for the world!
Arithron Vote Arithron for CSM! Check out my thread: http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=899358 |
Wendat Huron
Stellar Solutions
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Posted - 2008.11.10 21:16:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Arithron
...I find it interesting how there is always one large alliance that everyone loves to hate...a few years ago it was BoB, now it's Goons...
Don't kid yourself, it's still BoB. When was the last time Goons did something putting them on the news radar?
With this many goons running there should be a good size portion of votes open for candidates not in the goon pocket.
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Dianeces
The Illuminati. Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2008.11.10 21:42:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Issler Dainze
I would also like to see the goon candidates officially renounce the once proclaimed goal of the goons to "destroy Eve".
Issler
You mean that Goon goal that wasn't ever actually said by the Goons? That one?
-dbp |
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Goumindong
Amarr Merch Industrial GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.11.10 21:54:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Dianeces
Originally by: Issler Dainze
I would also like to see the goon candidates officially renounce the once proclaimed goal of the goons to "destroy Eve".
Issler
You mean that Goon goal that wasn't ever actually said by the Goons? That one?
-dbp
I think she means the "Goon Goal" that was "renounced" multiple times last election cycle by all the Goons running.
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Arithron
Gallente Gallente Trade Alliance
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Posted - 2008.11.10 21:58:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Arithron on 10/11/2008 21:58:52 Are you implying that I am in the Goon's pockets? I might have misunderstood.
It's really irrelevant which alliance/corp you play in within Eve. Given that players often have multiple accounts, they can be members of opposing alliances if they wish! What's important is the PLAYER- they are the ones that front up to meetings, discuss issues and vote. It's up to voters to decide which candidates they think will do a good job on the CSM. It's interesting that 7 of the candidates are from one alliance, but there is no way of knowing how many of the other candidates have a Bob/Goon/Red Alliance etc alt. For all we know, 20 of the candidates could have a character that is a member of one alliance!
I can look past in-game politics and work with others on behalf of players. It doesn't mean I am in anyone's pocket; just open-minded
Take care, Arithron Vote Arithron for CSM! Check out my thread: http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=899358 |
Herschel Yamamoto
Bloodmoney Incorporated
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Posted - 2008.11.10 22:32:00 -
[13]
I've said before in other threads that I regard the possibility of a Goon-owned council as fantastically unlikely, and thus not really something to be afraid of. For a similar reason, it'd be almost impossible to block them - you'd have to find candidates, organize a campaign around the principle, and coordinate vote splitting well enough to get five of yours on the Council, without any of the organizational basis the Goons have and used to hardly world-shattering effect last time. But even if it were possible, I wouldn't be particularly worried - if that much of the Eve player base is behind them, they deserve to be spoken for, and I trust CCP to filter out any ideas that are particularly stupid.
Now, I'm hardly pro-Goon, and I don't think a "Gooned-out" council would be a proper representative for the player base as it exists today. But if you're basing your vote on blind prejudice, I don't want it.
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Bane Glorious
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.11.10 23:27:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Issler Dainze Anti? No, I think Eve is about freedom. The goons certainly push that envelope. I am however worried that too many goons in the council could defeat its purpose.
I would also like to see the goon candidates officially renounce the once proclaimed goal of the goons to "destroy Eve".
Issler
The whole "destroy EVE" schtick was Mittani's attempt to instill xenophobia within Goonswarm as a means of raising morale during a period of intense turbulence within the alliance. He believed that using propaganda to intensify the "us versus them" mentality within Goonswarm would galvanize members, though if it did, it was only temporary, and in any case it was never official alliance policy. |
Wendat Huron
Stellar Solutions
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Posted - 2008.11.10 23:39:00 -
[15]
Whatever the spin is I wouldn't want 7 GBC cronies on there either or russians for that matter. Just give me one candidate that's not favorable to the goon mob scene.
These forums are FUBAR, upgrade this decade! |
Goumindong
Amarr Merch Industrial GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.11.10 23:51:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Goumindong on 10/11/2008 23:51:38 Edit: Added quotes
Originally by: Wendat Huron Whatever the spin is I wouldn't want 7 GBC cronies on there either or russians for that matter. Just give me one candidate that's not favorable to the goon mob scene.
What do you think that 7 "GBC cronies" would implement?
We have to remember that this is a game, and we all play to have fun, there isn't some piece of the pie that we can cut off and keep for ourselves by playing politics. I would not be afraid of 7 "GBC cronies" on the council unless they were 7 completely foolish people. There isn't any damage they could do in a political sense that is not damage that anyone else could do by being foolish, the council is not set up in a manner that would allow it. |
Herschel Yamamoto
Bloodmoney Incorporated
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Posted - 2008.11.10 23:52:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Wendat Huron Whatever the spin is I wouldn't want 7 GBC cronies on there either or russians for that matter. Just give me one candidate that's not favorable to the goon mob scene.
Here is the alliance breakdown of the 42 candidates
Combined Planetary Union Dark Taboo Deep Space Engineering Dirt Nap Associates HUN Reloaded Intrepid Crossing Ivy League KIA Majesta Empire Morsus Mihi Space Technologies The Honda Accord Warp to Desktop YTMND RAZOR x2 Goon x7 No Alliance x19
Looks like you've got about 30 acceptable choices, if you're voting solely based on 0.0 politics. |
Wendat Huron
Stellar Solutions
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Posted - 2008.11.10 23:58:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Herschel Yamamoto
Originally by: Wendat Huron Whatever the spin is I wouldn't want 7 GBC cronies on there either or russians for that matter. Just give me one candidate that's not favorable to the goon mob scene.
Here is the alliance breakdown of the 42 candidates
Combined Planetary Union Dark Taboo Deep Space Engineering Dirt Nap Associates HUN Reloaded Intrepid Crossing Ivy League KIA Majesta Empire Morsus Mihi Space Technologies The Honda Accord Warp to Desktop YTMND RAZOR x2 Goon x7 No Alliance x19
Looks like you've got about 30 acceptable choices, if you're voting solely based on 0.0 politics.
If you want to take it that far then by all means do tell how many of those are red to the goon too.
These forums are FUBAR, upgrade this decade! |
Herschel Yamamoto
Bloodmoney Incorporated
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Posted - 2008.11.11 00:04:00 -
[19]
Edited by: Herschel Yamamoto on 11/11/2008 00:04:26
Originally by: Wendat Huron If you want to take it that far then by all means do tell how many of those are red to the goon too.
Much as I love me some data mining, I'm not going to look up 40 different corporations for standings vis-a-vis GoonSwarm. I'm not a great follower of 0.0 politics, but I'd say very few will be actively red, since about the only people who have Goons set to red that I know of are the GBC folks, and I don't see any of them. You've got maybe 10 who are blue(including the 7 Goons themselves) and 30 who either avoid them or just don't care.
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Wendat Huron
Stellar Solutions
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Posted - 2008.11.11 00:12:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Herschel Yamamoto Edited by: Herschel Yamamoto on 11/11/2008 00:04:26
Originally by: Wendat Huron If you want to take it that far then by all means do tell how many of those are red to the goon too.
Much as I love me some data mining, I'm not going to look up 40 different corporations for standings vis-a-vis GoonSwarm. I'm not a great follower of 0.0 politics, but I'd say very few will be actively red, since about the only people who have Goons set to red that I know of are the GBC folks, and I don't see any of them. You've got maybe 10 who are blue(including the 7 Goons themselves) and 30 who either avoid them or just don't care.
HUN Reloaded are GBC as far as I know.
Combined Planetary Union Dark Taboo Deep Space Engineering Dirt Nap Associates HUN Reloaded - Intrepid Crossing + Ivy League KIA + Majesta Empire + Morsus Mihi + Space Technologies The Honda Accord Warp to Desktop YTMND RAZOR x2 + Goon x7 + No Alliance x19
That's my take on probable goon friends out of the 42 that is 13 total. What I'm looking for is someone who is clearly not as I don't want to further whatever hidden agenda they may have.
These forums are FUBAR, upgrade this decade! |
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Herschel Yamamoto
Bloodmoney Incorporated
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Posted - 2008.11.11 00:36:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Wendat Huron That's my take on probable goon friends out of the 42 that is 13 total. What I'm looking for is someone who is clearly not as I don't want to further whatever hidden agenda they may have.
You're worried about hidden agendas? If someone had something to say in the war that's been the primary concern of tens of thousands of players for multiple years now, you'd think they might have an entry or two on their killboard. But instead of looking at the available evidence and thinking, you're going to ask for empty words from people running for office. And that's even before you consider off-alliance alts - what do you say to someone with a character in Goon, a character in BoB, and a character in a Caldari militia corp? The only people who would be willing to express a heartfelt anti-Goon bias will be Goons themselves, and that's just because they'd find it funny.
Whatever, this is pointless. I'm not going to feed your paranoia any further.
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Issler Dainze
Minmatar Tadakastu-Obata Corporation The Honda Accord
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Posted - 2008.11.12 00:05:00 -
[22]
So to clarify our current "goon' standings. Tada O, the executor corp for The Honda Accord was briefly a member of the goons. My comment about the intentions of the goons is a result of some of the communications I saw while that was the case. We left the goons after it was clear that they were a little too "crude" in some of their internal communications than seemed to fit the majority of our group.
We left on good terms. I even made a brief attempt to get BRUCE (while Tada O was in BRUCE) to work out a NAP with them when we first moved to Syndicate. Some time later after we left BRUCE when we moved to Molden Heath we were seeing them regularly in the space were were active in. I contacted them to get us set "blue". We were told by the goons they would. For a while they honored that araingement. Some time after that several of our members were attacked by the goons and we set them 'red" to be on the safe side.
So we consider the goons "red" to us.
Hope that clears up any confusion.
Issler
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Wendat Huron
Stellar Solutions
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Posted - 2008.11.12 00:41:00 -
[23]
Deception or not you're one of the candidates I was reading up on. Seems to fit my bill.
These forums are FUBAR, upgrade this decade! |
Pattern Clarc
Naglihiem
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Posted - 2008.11.12 01:51:00 -
[24]
I used to be in BoB and fought goons for 2 years if that counts for anything... ____
"I'm for the big things, and the realy big things"
Pattern For CSM!
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Tusko Hopkins
HUN Corp. HUN Reloaded
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Posted - 2008.11.12 02:18:00 -
[25]
Well, I am not a big fan of getting 0.0 alliance politics into the CSM. The CSM should concentrate on the overall health of the EVE universe, and not on the well-being of any political powerblocks. I think the CSM candidates are supposed to represent specific game styles, not political factions. Like Ankh was representing the carebears, and later the faction warfare guys, LaVista stood out for the lowsec, Darius represented the interests of bigass 0.0 alliances and I tried to stand for the small 0.0 corps (when I had the chance).
Goons have said and done kind of nasty things to EVE which I did not like. However, the CSM candidates are real persons, who should not be generalized in any way. Darius, for example, has said kind a lot things that made me worry a little bit, however after meeting him in person I think that he is an extremely funny guy who knows what he wants, and a lot of his interests are the same as mine. His opinion on sovenerity in 0.0, for example, were kind of bright. He thinks in "large", has a perspective on the game that also made me think a lot and think on a larger scale. So, I do not think that it would be a good idea to discredit any candidates just because he was a goon.
Of course, it would be a huge risk for the CSM if goons had the majority in the council. If I am wrong and they are actually the kind of "evil people" half of the community believes, they could actually impose a great danger on CSM, probably get it to fail completely, and I do not wanna see that, so in my opinion no in-game faction should gain absolute majority in any CSM... and right now the only faction that has the chance doing that are the goons. But with 7 candidates... I do not see a chance of them doing that.
And a final comment: yes, HUN Reloaded is member of the GBC.
CSM representative CSM candidate for 2nd cycle Campaign website http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameb |
Kaiden Exeider
Gallente Astrowork Systems
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Posted - 2008.11.12 11:10:00 -
[26]
I think this point has been voiced, even among the candidates.
but all in all it comes down to one question
"Will the goon candidates if elected, think of themselves, or for the people of EVE?"
this is a heavy question, it is hard to think in a play style, and then suddenly come into an advisory role. But in the end, only time and opportunity will tell. I think any corp or alliance who wants to go for CSM, then i think at least it would be in their best interests to adopt a "Good Governance" mentality. Politics in the real world is a case of charm, chrisma, and in the end likability. People are afraid of the goon "agenda". When that statement about "us vs them" was made. regardless of the true meaning behind it. Statements like this will be taken out of context. You have to watch what you say. When a faction within, whether official or not, does things like terrorist attacks in empire space against players because of "ideological" differences. Regardless of your meaning behind this, you loose credibility. Because negative ideas get associated with you. so as such, you have the suspicious voters. Also the Jihadswarm attacking of miners lost you a lot of points from the industrial sector.
If you act like an ogre with a battle axe people are going to be afraid of you.
Because your a big alliance that already makes people worry, and that's when your being friendly! I know that's unfair and in many ways yes it is. But that's what people believe. compound that with the actions of Jihadswarm and such groups like this with in Goons, damage your reputation even more. If you work on the direction that Goonswarm ultimately wants to go, and try to repair this reputation. Try to put friendly and good nature into goons, then I think you will be able to come back. I believe even Goons can be redeemed.
This combined with making sure your message is that you really are as a candidate wanting to improve EVE.
Then I am willing to give you a chance. a Fair try. but also know that if you try to set up something or otherwise screw the EVE community, I honestly don't think your rep would ever be able to recover.
If you here for good, then I wish you luck, if your here for a scam or screw job. May god have mercy on you, because the EVE community won't.
in the end and in due time, the truth will come out, whatever that truth is.
-Kaiden Kaiden Exeider - CSM Candidate |
Pixel SonursCreen
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Posted - 2008.11.12 19:04:00 -
[27]
i would hate to see a gooned out council. but i think it will not happen anyways as i explained in another thread on this forum abit ago.
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Garion Avarr
Amarr Zero Zero Traders YTMND.
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Posted - 2008.11.13 00:54:00 -
[28]
Edited by: Garion Avarr on 13/11/2008 00:54:21 I'd just like to say that, regardless of personal feelings -- and I certainly have those on this subject, as alliance members can well attest -- I don't think it's particularly constructive for CSM candidates to speak negatively about other CSM candidates. Multiple people are going to be elected, and if both you and someone you spoke ill of are elected, that could negatively affect the CSM's ability to work as a team.
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Bunyip
Gallente Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2008.11.13 03:54:00 -
[29]
Hello all,
As a character, I wouldn't shed a tear if both BoB and the Goons got into a battle and were wiped out. I disagree with a lot of the things which both sides have done, as they have both become too big and too proud.
As a player, I understand that they're just people playing this game for the same reason I am - to have fun. While their technique might be pretty crude TBH, it's their right to play the game the way that they want (within reason - actions such as the forum shutdown of a few years ago were wrong).
As a member of the CSM, I will take everybody for who they are - a player with a unique insight towards Eve. I'll be the first to admit that the Goons have more insight due to experience than I do in certain aspects of this game, and I look forward to hearing what they have to say.
-Bunyip
"May all your hits be crits." - Knights of the Dinner Table. |
Lil duece
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Posted - 2008.11.13 04:03:00 -
[30]
1. Goons are not out to "Destroy" EVE 2. However last CSM has shown that in-game politics can and do affect CSM I would dare say the Goon is not above this and neither is any of the others.
3. There is a valid concern, but as has been said it is probably a minor one
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Bane Glorious
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.11.13 05:12:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Bunyip As a character, I wouldn't shed a tear if both BoB and the Goons got into a battle and were wiped out.
i'd like that too, actually |
Avalloc
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.11.13 09:28:00 -
[32]
I think it is fascinating that a lot of people "fear" the Goons. Yes, over the years there have been Goons who have done what could be considered "foul" things in EVE and out of it. Do I condone those actions as a player and a Goon? No, I don't. But to judge the whole group based on the actions of a very few is pretty shallow.
"But Avalloc, a lot of Goons took part in Jihadswarm and killed miners all over Empire!"
The whole Jihadswarm fiasco wasn't a bad thing for EVE, imho. It generated excitement and tension in a game we all play. Look at all the buzz which was created and the elevated activity among all payers when they heard about what was happening to high-sec miners. I wasn't personally out there shooting the miners but I was following the whole situation on the EVEO forums.
I never want to see EVE become boring and predictable. Do you? The simple fact players -could- create such a huge event says a lot of good things about the game. This isn't WoW where you are hand-fed every freaking Live Event and "plot twist." This is EVE Online where THE PLAYERS drive the game. A safe game will eventually lose its customers when they max out on their money and levels. I don't see EVE ever doing that and sure as hell won't let it while I'm around stll playing it.
I care about this game and the community that supports it. If you're afraid of voting to support me because I'm a Goon, then your ignorance of exactly who I am and what I stand for is truly unfortunate for you, not me.
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Arithron
Gallente Gallente Trade Alliance
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Posted - 2008.11.13 20:23:00 -
[33]
Well said, have to agree with you 100%
Hopefully we may meet sometime soon :)
Arithron Vote Arithron for CSM! Check out my thread: http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=899358 |
Garion Avarr
Amarr Zero Zero Traders YTMND.
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Posted - 2008.11.14 05:38:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Avalloc [. . .] The whole Jihadswarm fiasco wasn't a bad thing for EVE, imho. It generated excitement and tension in a game we all play. Look at all the buzz which was created and the elevated activity among all payers when they heard about what was happening to high-sec miners. I wasn't personally out there shooting the miners but I was following the whole situation on the EVEO forums. [. . .]
Perhaps it was, but the ganking itself really isn't what I think made it so offensive -- it was the fact that it was offensive against a real world religion (which I believe is against the ToS) and made light of in a rather tasteless way real world terrorism and suicide bombings. Suicide ganking people is a valid game mechanic, and while I don't really agree with the rampent suicide ganking of Jihadswarm, is was the 'Jihad' part of it that crossed the line, not the gankings themselves.
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Fahtim Meidires
Caldari GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.11.14 07:28:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Garion Avarr
Originally by: Avalloc [. . .] The whole Jihadswarm fiasco wasn't a bad thing for EVE, imho. It generated excitement and tension in a game we all play. Look at all the buzz which was created and the elevated activity among all payers when they heard about what was happening to high-sec miners. I wasn't personally out there shooting the miners but I was following the whole situation on the EVEO forums. [. . .]
Perhaps it was, but the ganking itself really isn't what I think made it so offensive -- it was the fact that it was offensive against a real world religion (which I believe is against the ToS) and made light of in a rather tasteless way real world terrorism and suicide bombings. Suicide ganking people is a valid game mechanic, and while I don't really agree with the rampent suicide ganking of Jihadswarm, is was the 'Jihad' part of it that crossed the line, not the gankings themselves.
Jihad is Arabic for holy war. It's a language and a literal translation. Shoot us for engaging in a little role play.
What else would one call a planned string of suicide bombings in the name of God?
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Gabriel Darkefyre
Minmatar Shadows Of The Federation
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Posted - 2008.11.14 10:12:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Fahtim Meidires
Jihad is Arabic for holy war. It's a language and a literal translation. Shoot us for engaging in a little role play.
What else would one call a planned string of suicide bombings in the name of God?
I thought that Jihad actually means 'Struggle'. As to an alternative name, you could have used several.
Crusade comes to mind as one example. "The Goon Crusade" has a nice ring to it.
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Omber Zombie
Gallente Frontier Technologies
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Posted - 2008.11.14 14:58:00 -
[37]
People really need to stop being so uptight. This is a game where people murder other people multiple times a day and you're getting annoyed with a word? ----------------------
CSM 08 Blog |
Garion Avarr
Amarr Zero Zero Traders YTMND.
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Posted - 2008.11.14 18:07:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Fahtim Meidires
Originally by: Garion Avarr
Originally by: Avalloc [. . .] The whole Jihadswarm fiasco wasn't a bad thing for EVE, imho. It generated excitement and tension in a game we all play. Look at all the buzz which was created and the elevated activity among all payers when they heard about what was happening to high-sec miners. I wasn't personally out there shooting the miners but I was following the whole situation on the EVEO forums. [. . .]
Perhaps it was, but the ganking itself really isn't what I think made it so offensive -- it was the fact that it was offensive against a real world religion (which I believe is against the ToS) and made light of in a rather tasteless way real world terrorism and suicide bombings. Suicide ganking people is a valid game mechanic, and while I don't really agree with the rampent suicide ganking of Jihadswarm, is was the 'Jihad' part of it that crossed the line, not the gankings themselves.
Jihad is Arabic for holy war. It's a language and a literal translation. Shoot us for engaging in a little role play.
What else would one call a planned string of suicide bombings in the name of God?
RP is based upon Eve, not RL. If you wanted a term for a 'holy war' that fits in Eve, you could have used 'Reclaiming.'
And yes, I believe Jihad more accurately means 'a struggle,' (maybe specifically one related to faith, I'm not sure). Or so I am told.
Originally by: Omber Zombie People really need to stop being so uptight. This is a game where people murder other people multiple times a day and you're getting annoyed with a word?
It's not so much the word per se, but the context in which they were using it and the other real world religious associations they used.
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Charlies Angel
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Posted - 2008.11.14 20:29:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Garion Avarr
Originally by: Fahtim Meidires
Originally by: Garion Avarr
Originally by: Avalloc [. . .] The whole Jihadswarm fiasco wasn't a bad thing for EVE, imho. It generated excitement and tension in a game we all play. Look at all the buzz which was created and the elevated activity among all payers when they heard about what was happening to high-sec miners. I wasn't personally out there shooting the miners but I was following the whole situation on the EVEO forums. [. . .]
Perhaps it was, but the ganking itself really isn't what I think made it so offensive -- it was the fact that it was offensive against a real world religion (which I believe is against the ToS) and made light of in a rather tasteless way real world terrorism and suicide bombings. Suicide ganking people is a valid game mechanic, and while I don't really agree with the rampent suicide ganking of Jihadswarm, is was the 'Jihad' part of it that crossed the line, not the gankings themselves.
Jihad is Arabic for holy war. It's a language and a literal translation. Shoot us for engaging in a little role play.
What else would one call a planned string of suicide bombings in the name of God?
RP is based upon Eve, not RL. If you wanted a term for a 'holy war' that fits in Eve, you could have used 'Reclaiming.'
And yes, I believe Jihad more accurately means 'a struggle,' (maybe specifically one related to faith, I'm not sure). Or so I am told.
Originally by: Omber Zombie People really need to stop being so uptight. This is a game where people murder other people multiple times a day and you're getting annoyed with a word?
It's not so much the word per se, but the context in which they were using it and the other real world religious associations they used.
Dune borrowed heavily from Middle Eastern words and contexts. If you choose to read too deeply into a situation that's your uptight problem. Assigning intentions to people based on your personal perceptions is silly.
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Alqualonde
Merch Industrial GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.11.15 19:55:00 -
[40]
Edited by: Alqualonde on 15/11/2008 20:03:15
You guys are funny.
Goonswarm does 0.0 sovereignty warfare, and likes to grief.
Ergo the issues you can expect GS members to represent is 0.0, which we regard as what EVE truly ought to be about (we would love to get the game changed so more people can come out here and bump elbows with us and keep things interesting), and keeping EVE a free and dangerous universe.
Neither of which are bad for EVE IMHO. If you want safety and comfort you really are playing the wrong game. I think you will find that most of our candidates' campaign topics are p. serious and not offensive if you actually read them tbh.
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Harvard Lancaster
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Posted - 2008.11.16 21:15:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Gabriel Darkefyre
Originally by: Fahtim Meidires Jihad is Arabic for holy war. It's a language and a literal translation. Shoot us for engaging in a little role play.
What else would one call a planned string of suicide bombings in the name of God?
I thought that Jihad actually means 'Struggle'. As to an alternative name, you could have used several.
Crusade comes to mind as one example. "The Goon Crusade" has a nice ring to it.
And using the word "Crusade" isn't offensive to Catholics? I hear that's what they call their holy wars. A bit less hot-button, of course, given the difference in era, but in both cases you're creating a name based on one particular religion's most common term for religious war. Why is one a less-offensive alternative to the other? |
Scatim Helicon
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.11.19 22:11:00 -
[42]
This is silly. There is no such thing as an 'anti-goon' or 'pro-goon' CSM - any changes made to the game, with CSM input or not, will help out some goons and screw over some others.
The reality of having the largest numerical alliance in EVE is that Goons are involved in every aspect of this game. There are goons in T1 frigates, goons in nano-HACs, goons in Covert Ops ships, sniping battleships and trimarked blasterboats. There are goons in carriers, dreads, motherships, titans, rorquals and jump freighters. There are goons manufacturing with T2 BPOs and goons inventing with datacores. There are goons who x up for 200-man fleetfights and goons that only fight in small gangs. There are goons that roam lowsec solo and goons that roam in highsec solo. There are goons who make their ISK playing the market, goons selling timecards, goons running missions on highsec alts, goons picking through asteroids belts for unwanted salvage, goons multi-boxing half a dozen hulk pilots and goons scamming pubbies. There are goons with 1m skillpoints and goons with 60m skillpoints.
So what exactly do you mean by 'anti-goon'? |
Gabriel Darkefyre
Minmatar Shadows Of The Federation
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Posted - 2008.11.20 01:46:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Harvard Lancaster
And using the word "Crusade" isn't offensive to Catholics? I hear that's what they call their holy wars. A bit less hot-button, of course, given the difference in era, but in both cases you're creating a name based on one particular religion's most common term for religious war. Why is one a less-offensive alternative to the other?
I never said it was less offensive, merely that there were alternative's available. Would that mean that the "24th Imperial Crusade" (The Amarr NPC FW Corp) should also be considered offensive?
Sure, Jihadswarm hit a few nerves, but at the end of the day people need to remember that this is just a game.
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Harvard Lancaster
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Posted - 2008.11.20 01:51:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Gabriel Darkefyre
Originally by: Harvard Lancaster
And using the word "Crusade" isn't offensive to Catholics? I hear that's what they call their holy wars. A bit less hot-button, of course, given the difference in era, but in both cases you're creating a name based on one particular religion's most common term for religious war. Why is one a less-offensive alternative to the other?
I never said it was less offensive, merely that there were alternative's available. Would that mean that the "24th Imperial Crusade" (The Amarr NPC FW Corp) should also be considered offensive?
Sure, Jihadswarm hit a few nerves, but at the end of the day people need to remember that this is just a game.
I didn't claim that using religious terminology was offensive, Garion did. I have no problem with 24IC, JihadSwarm, or any other group like that.
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Cadela Fria
Amarr x13 X13 Alliance
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Posted - 2008.11.20 10:03:00 -
[45]
Edited by: Cadela Fria on 20/11/2008 10:05:45 Oh give me a break..you're actually debating whether or not the use of the word "Jihad" is appropiate or not, because it exists in RL? Seriously?
Slavery is soaked all over the Amarr storyline, and the game itself. They make a point of mentioning it as often as they can, not to mention it's religious. Slavery was, and is a very real thing that I'd argue is far worse than some miniscule dingbat word like "Jihad" and it's connection to religion.
We have plenty of people who RP Amarr to the fullest (you guys are awesome btw), including the parts about slavery, and why shouldn't they? In fact, I would be sad if they didn't..
You know its you people who advocate religious, political and racial sensitivity to the extremes like this, who are the ones partially at fault for problems existing around these kind of topics in the first place! As soon as you make it law or somehow proliferate the idea onto people as it being taboo, you can demonize good people just because you have an ignorant superstitious way of thinking.
If, pure hypothetically, I wanted to play a zealous Amarr who not only advocated prejudice, religious doctrine, slavery, holy wars, torture and all manners of religious utterings to justify my bombings of a defenseless mining operation, but also was quite active in utilizing various slang to degrade the Minmatars - Then dangit, I want to be able to, and if you can't tolerate that, then either block me, go to a different topic on the forum, a different system in the game, declare war on me, or simply get the hell out of my PRETEND SPACESHIP UNIVERSE!
I'm not saying common decency towards each other is bad, not at all. Of course we should respect each other and try to get along and we do - It is in our nature as humans! We to tend to want to work together to achieve various goals, and to do that it is in each other's best interest to get along, but see what happens when you turn the act of kindness and tolerance into a mode that equates to a witchhunt of fanatical proportions the second you spot the latest fashion in "words the can't be used".
It's a GAME..and many years ago, the word "breast" was highly improper which is also why the terms "white meat" and "dark meat" came to be. Think about it.
<3
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Irida Mershkov
Gallente War is Bliss
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Posted - 2008.11.21 15:53:00 -
[46]
Edited by: Irida Mershkov on 21/11/2008 15:55:44
Originally by: Garion Avarr
Originally by: Avalloc [. . .] The whole Jihadswarm fiasco wasn't a bad thing for EVE, imho. It generated excitement and tension in a game we all play. Look at all the buzz which was created and the elevated activity among all payers when they heard about what was happening to high-sec miners. I wasn't personally out there shooting the miners but I was following the whole situation on the EVEO forums. [. . .]
Perhaps it was, but the ganking itself really isn't what I think made it so offensive -- it was the fact that it was offensive against a real world religion (which I believe is against the ToS) and made light of in a rather tasteless way real world terrorism and suicide bombings. Suicide ganking people is a valid game mechanic, and while I don't really agree with the rampent suicide ganking of Jihadswarm, is was the 'Jihad' part of it that crossed the line, not the gankings themselves.
Well, to be point here, a lot of the people who claimed it would be offensive, wouldn't have found it offensive themselves. I am a Muslim player, and I know a fair few others, we all found it hilarious, people seriously need to learn to lighten up. It is a game, not real life, we play games generally to enjoy ourselves and escape real life, the Goons were enjoying themselves evidently, good for them! If people are going to whine about something that needs to be taken as a joke. Then they should seriously just leave the game.
It isn't offensive to Islam at all. The whole spin on suicide bombings and 'terrorism' is largely bull**** to the masses. What is really terror? someone who is prepared to wipe themselves out in the name of something they believe in? or a nation that declares war on a much more inferior one and crushes it. Which is really the terrorist?
Let's avoid the last bit and not get involved in a political debate. I enjoy a lot of politics IRL and I don't want to completely bring it over here aswell.
TL;DR - I'm a Muslim, I know a few others, we found it funny, people need to lighten up.
As for the topic at hand, the news-worthy events that GoonSwarm does gives them credit, as pointed out prior in the thread, it makes EVE exciting a lot more interesting than a lot of other MMO's. It generated a lot of buzz ingame, so what? some people lost some ships? That goes hand-in-hand with the entire risk concept of EVE. Just because some more Goons may get into the council, that doesn't really transfer anything into their favour. I remember someone pointing it out before (May have been LVV) that CSM really doesn't hold that much power when you get right into it. So they wouldn't really turn EVE into a sour apple anytime soon by getting hold of CSM.
Plus, Any alliance in theory can blob out CSM with their members, The Goons may not be the only ones. Edit: Besides, you shouldn't really just be against a CSM member just because he/she is a member of GoonSwarm alliance, that just proves you can't even make your own opinion of someone.
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Maximum KILLDEATHRATIO
Minmatar 24th Imperial Crusade
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Posted - 2008.11.22 00:38:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Bane Glorious
Originally by: Bunyip As a character, I wouldn't shed a tear if both BoB and the Goons got into a battle and were wiped out.
i'd like that too, actually
If this were even possible, yeah I think eve would be fixed at that point and wouldn't need a csm. |
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