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FlameGlow
Legio Octae Rebellion Alliance
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Posted - 2008.11.12 09:18:00 -
[271]
Originally by: Stork DK I love it how the carebears whined for a nerf to nanos and ended up getting hit by the rebounce of the bat
I'll be seeng you in your ECM whine topics, as ECMing is pretty much all the remaining options for caldari -speced ppl (well that or rail-sniping) now that anti-support and damage-dealing with missiles were screwed _____________ I don't care what is nerfed, as long as it's not my "undock" button. |
Oftherocks
Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2008.11.12 09:18:00 -
[272]
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Oftherocks You aren't getting it. This isn't that Cruise missiles can't hit frigs for crap, it is that a BS with NO speed mods can now speed tank a cruise missile ship.
No, that's not what this is about. Or, rather, if that's what you wanted to discuss, then maybe you shouldn't have answered my post. You see, I wrote: Originally by: Tippia They would have broken the tweaked role for small, AB-using ships. This brings missiles in line with turret guns against small fast targets
Non-modded battleships are not "small, AB-using ships." Read before posting ù tip of the day.
Here is how it is different. You can hit a ab using frig with small guns, small missiles won't do jack squat against the same target. So yeah, a BS can't take out a frig with ease, but it should be able to hit a BS for full damage, no?
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Liberator 1
Gallente Remnants of the Flame
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Posted - 2008.11.12 09:20:00 -
[273]
A friend and I were shooting at each other this morning and we reached the conclusion that the adjustments to missiles and webs and speed have gone a bit too far. I think describing them as an "adjustment" is inaccurate, "major change" is more accurate. I've only been playing since January and given the nature of the game, I am deeply uncomfortable when the rules get changed like this.
How am I supposed to exploit the variety of ships and weapons if the skill training takes so long and is so expensive, only to have the goalposts moved?
I think it could have been more subtle. ------------------------------------------- ôIf you are in a spaceship that is traveling at the speed of light, and you turn on the headlights, does anything happen?ö ------------------------- |
Whineroy
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Posted - 2008.11.12 09:21:00 -
[274]
Originally by: Szent AdamKiraly bleed carebears bleed mwuhahahhaah.
You know, losers who make fortunes ratting at 0.0 while their butt-buddies ensure that they have zero risk doing so shouldn't exactly talk about "carebears" unless they really want to show themselves to be the f-ing nerds they are.
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Lethos Aranis
THE BLACK RAGE FOUNDATI0N
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Posted - 2008.11.12 09:22:00 -
[275]
Originally by: Whineroy
Originally by: Szent AdamKiraly bleed carebears bleed mwuhahahhaah.
You know, losers who make fortunes ratting at 0.0 while their butt-buddies ensure that they have zero risk doing so shouldn't exactly talk about "carebears" unless they really want to show themselves to be the f-ing nerds they are.
Just leave him. He's by far the biggest Eve-O troll I've seen recently.
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Raguun
LDK Kraftwerk.
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Posted - 2008.11.12 09:23:00 -
[276]
Originally by: Stork DK I love it how the carebears whined for a nerf to nanos and ended up getting hit by the rebounce of the bat
Oh yeah I am too :) Missiles used to suck in pvp but dominated in PVE. Now they are balanced to suck in both, but less :D Just like guns. Ever tried to hit frigs whitch is disrupting, webbing you in belt? Even medium guns had problems with that. And if you were dumb to rat in hac you could actualy die NPC tackled :) Or ever chased belt rats with turret ship, while they run from you faster then you go? Not to mention missions. While ravens could just warp to belt sit aligned and wtfpwnd all around, kilometers away. Fair? Dont seams so.
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Hyveres
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.11.12 09:27:00 -
[277]
Originally by: Raguun
Originally by: Stork DK I love it how the carebears whined for a nerf to nanos and ended up getting hit by the rebounce of the bat
Oh yeah I am too :) Missiles used to suck in pvp but dominated in PVE. Now they are balanced to suck in both, but less :D Just like guns. Ever tried to hit frigs whitch is disrupting, webbing you in belt? Even medium guns had problems with that. And if you were dumb to rat in hac you could actualy die NPC tackled :) Or ever chased belt rats with turret ship, while they run from you faster then you go? Not to mention missions. While ravens could just warp to belt sit aligned and wtfpwnd all around, kilometers away. Fair? Dont seams so.
Ever seen how a good missionrunner in a turretboat handled stuff?
All about utilizing transversal and dropping your targets before they could close with you. Ofcourse that might be a tad complicated for someone who usually blobs their targets.
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Chris Liath
Gallente Red Dwarf Mining Corporation space weaponry and trade
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Posted - 2008.11.12 09:28:00 -
[278]
Edited by: Chris Liath on 12/11/2008 09:28:23
Originally by: Lethos Aranis
Originally by: Lethos Aranis Oh and another thing, so we fly Caldari. What's your point? Ever thought about the fact that we also have other characters of different races so know all too well what the other problems are?
Originally by: Chris Liath Meh, you're caldari. You wouldn't understand.
Read again. This character is Caldari. The others are not
And it was your character I referred to.
"Oh dear," says God, "I hadn't thought of that," and promptly vanishes in a puff of logic. |
Szent AdamKiraly
Reikoku Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.11.12 09:36:00 -
[279]
Originally by: Lethos Aranis
Originally by: Whineroy
Originally by: Szent AdamKiraly bleed carebears bleed mwuhahahhaah.
You know, losers who make fortunes ratting at 0.0 while their butt-buddies ensure that they have zero risk doing so shouldn't exactly talk about "carebears" unless they really want to show themselves to be the f-ing nerds they are.
Just leave him. He's by far the biggest Eve-O troll I've seen recently.
And you know, you should get a clue about how i make my ISK
Please, whine more it is healing the wounds left by the nano nerf.
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Pr1ncess Alia
Caldari Perkone
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Posted - 2008.11.12 09:37:00 -
[280]
Originally by: Szent AdamKiraly
Originally by: Lethos Aranis
Originally by: Whineroy
Originally by: Szent AdamKiraly bleed carebears bleed mwuhahahhaah.
You know, losers who make fortunes ratting at 0.0 while their butt-buddies ensure that they have zero risk doing so shouldn't exactly talk about "carebears" unless they really want to show themselves to be the f-ing nerds they are.
Just leave him. He's by far the biggest Eve-O troll I've seen recently.
And you know, you should get a clue about how i make my ISK
Please, whine more it is healing the wounds left by the nano nerf.
let me guess, you get paid 10isk for every terrible troll post you make on the forums?
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Raguun
LDK Kraftwerk.
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Posted - 2008.11.12 09:46:00 -
[281]
Originally by: Hyveres Ever seen how a good missionrunner in a turretboat handled stuff?
All about utilizing transversal and dropping your targets before they could close with you. Ofcourse that might be a tad complicated for someone who usually blobs their targets.
So basicly you have to run all ways around in you turret ship, while Raven pilot can just mindless fly one direction killing all around? Good balance e?
Missiles - no tracking, long range, always hits for same damage. Turrets - tracking problems, short range, hits for random damage. Always thought what missile dmg should be raduced for such lucrative thing as "always hit for same dmg"
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Szent AdamKiraly
Reikoku Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.11.12 09:49:00 -
[282]
Please, whine more it is healing the wounds left by the nano nerf.
let me guess, you get paid 10isk for every terrible troll post you make on the forums?
That's the funny part! It isn't a troll i am genuinly happy
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Hyveres
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.11.12 09:50:00 -
[283]
Originally by: Raguun
Originally by: Hyveres Ever seen how a good missionrunner in a turretboat handled stuff?
All about utilizing transversal and dropping your targets before they could close with you. Ofcourse that might be a tad complicated for someone who usually blobs their targets.
So basicly you have to run all ways around in you turret ship, while Raven pilot can just mindless fly one direction killing all around? Good balance e?
Missiles - no tracking, long range, always hits for same damage. Turrets - tracking problems, short range, hits for random damage. Always thought what missile dmg should be raduced for such lucrative thing as "always hit for same dmg"
Well you do ignore that ravens had half the DPS of comparable turretships?
Ofcourse that lower dps isnt something that should be factored in when balancing from your point of view.
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C4LYP50
The Sky Is The Limit
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Posted - 2008.11.12 09:52:00 -
[284]
Edited by: C4LYP50 on 12/11/2008 09:56:40
Originally by: Raguun
What numbers? What 90% of mission runners are Caldari Raven pilots. This contingent whined the most while not being able to hit nanoes with their uber PVE ratting Ravens (PVE ship in pvp, lol). Asked for nerf. Here it is ppl!! Now you whine for consequence. What you expected CCP will do? Make your Ravens uber in pvp too, so noone would fly other races at all? They balanced things in the way you asked.
Edit: So what Raven is no doubt best PVE ship is not outbalanced? And if you are stupid to take other race you had to face drawbacks in mission running?
This is an utter lie, and I call BS. Go back to the nano nerf thread and re read it (or maybe even read it for the first time!) No mission runner uses their moneymaker to pvp with. You said this in order to facilitate your second lie. Why on earth would a full time PVE pilot, who never uses, let alone SEES a nano'd ship, chime in begging for a nerf that has no effect on them? The people who complained about nanos being overpowered were their adverseries in low and nullsec. And only them.
Missiles aren't just worthless against nano's in PVP, they are pretty much the least preferred weapons system in the game, prepatch, which is why people tend to create Caldari mission runners, because that was the ONLY method of using missiles cost effectively for low skillpoints. And to get the bonuses to make that worthwhile, you had to go Caldari. A "hint" for people considering what they are gonna do at character creation, echoed a thousand times by people such as yourself.
I think you should maybe take a deep breath, think about what type of debater you want to be seen as, and reconsider your "arguement".
FYI, the nano storm hit right about the time I was training into interceptors, and for all the screaming on both sides, it never changed my training plan at all. I never took part in that discussion because I felt 1) I had already made up my mind to train up 'ceptors, and 2) I was in no position to take sides one way or the other, due to inexperience with what was being discussed. I think you'l find most "Carebear Caldari" agreed with me, a perusal over the nano thread(s) certainly seems to support this.
On Topic: Remember this, my brothers and sisters: We STILL have the best starting stats in the game, if missiles are nerfed, we are in the best position to retrain for something else. Rails are still a great option, and we do get ships for that. /pulls out Rokh-N-Roll, and heads for mission space!
Brunette By Birth...........Blonde By Nature. ------------------------------------------------ "Your suffering will be legendary, even in Hell." "No tears, please; it's a waste of good suffering." |
Alex Harumichi
Gallente Gradient Electus Matari
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Posted - 2008.11.12 09:57:00 -
[285]
Originally by: Hyveres Well you do ignore that ravens had half the DPS of comparable turretships?
Absolute bull****.
A torp Raven does equal-or-better dps than a blaster Megathron, ffs, at vastly better ranges.
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Raguun
LDK Kraftwerk.
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Posted - 2008.11.12 10:01:00 -
[286]
Edited by: Raguun on 12/11/2008 10:06:01
Originally by: C4LYP50 Edited by: C4LYP50 on 12/11/2008 09:56:40 Missiles aren't just worthless against nano's in PVP, they are pretty much the least preferred weapons system in the game, prepatch, which is why people tend to create Caldari mission runners, because that was the ONLY method of using missiles cost effectively for low skillpoints. And to get the bonuses to make that worthwhile, you had to go Caldari. A "hint" for people considering what they are gonna do at character creation, echoed a thousand times by people such as yourself.
You know lots of ppl cant afford to have misison runner alt, let alone recent increse in cost to play this game. So they ARE force to run missions in inferior ship, just to be able o fly pvp in thei favorite race.
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C4LYP50
The Sky Is The Limit
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Posted - 2008.11.12 10:13:00 -
[287]
Originally by: Raguun
You know lots of ppl cant afford to have misison runner alt, let alone recent increse in cost to play this game. So they ARE force to run missions in inferior ship, just to be able o fly pvp in thei favorite race.
Again, untrue. If you pay for 1 account, you have 2 alts, either of which could be used as a mission runner. What, you object to having to take valuable training time away fronm your main? Then your main has no reason not to invest in the skills and ships if he wants to PVE. Using the "OMG its a worldwide financial CRISIS!" line would be more effective if you had a point to make. It has nothing to do with # of accounts held by a player, or what those accounts are used for, it's about you being pulled up for a misleading rant and now , embarrased. trying to garner sympathy. No dice. Brunette By Birth...........Blonde By Nature. ------------------------------------------------ "Your suffering will be legendary, even in Hell." "No tears, please; it's a waste of good suffering." |
Feriluce
Caldari Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
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Posted - 2008.11.12 10:22:00 -
[288]
One thing is that big missiles do barely any dmg to small ships.
But another thing is light missiles dong 1/3 dmg against a target with an AB on.
They went way too far with missiles.
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Hermiat
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Posted - 2008.11.12 10:24:00 -
[289]
Originally by: Nameless Soldier Cry more please. Delicious tears.
Oh, oh, how VERY original. No one has said this yet! OK nameless soldier, i'll give u a name...... how about....... brainless fukwit?
Oh, oh, i know i'll use the very tired "Tears" line once again shall i?
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Vicious Salvo
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.11.12 10:27:00 -
[290]
I think both missile carebears and caldari haters have it all wrong.
I agree that missiles should have been brought in line with other weapon systems, (would have saved me alot of sp if they did sooner, but I'm nitpicking ) they were seriously overpowered, cruise missiles in particular. Though, as a raven pilot I've had no problem adjusting to it, does take much longer having to wait for drones to pop webber frigates. Now longer since they also nerfed hammerheads . The problem lies with more with the fact that caldari ships have misconfigured slot layouts that make them difficult to serve their roles.
It's funny to see people scream 'FIT WEB!; PAINTER!; AFTERBURNER!, now shut up' as if they were fitting an mega or armageddon, where you have mid-slots to give without having to worry about sacrificing a considerable amount of tank. Just fitting a web to serve its purpose would make an afterburner mandatory. You can just forget about fitting all three. I haven't seen a raven setup thats viable on just 3 slot tank, ignoring possible cap issues which would probably crop up for those who don't have high skill points in all applicable areas.
It would be far more reasonable just to reconfigure raven hulls with more midslots and drop a few of the lows, ravens don't really need that many low slots anyways. There is just no real use for them, apart from BCU's and even then you don't fit more than 3. Many I'm sure, myself included just fit power diagnostics, or a damage control.
An 8H/8M/3L (think reversed armageddon), or even a 8/7/3 (8/8/3 for a golem) layout would make a raven not just more viable for mission running, but make it more useful for BS vs BS pvp than an 8/6/5 slot ever could. Possible to at least bring it close to par with similar class battleships.
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Artelmis
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Posted - 2008.11.12 10:29:00 -
[291]
Edited by: Artelmis on 12/11/2008 10:31:20
Originally by: Oftherocks Guided missiles have been totally nerfed to uselessness.
The explosion velocity on a small missile has gone from 1750 m/sec to 170 m/sec, a decrease of 90.3%. The explosion velocity of heavy missiles has gone from 750 m/sec to 81 m/sec, a decrease of 89.2%. The explosion velocity of cruise missiles has gone from 500 m/sec to 69 m/sec, a decrease of 86.2%. With these changes you don't need any speed mods at all (not even an ab) to speed tank against a missile ship.
the whole explosion nerf would be OK if they KEPT IT IN LINE WITH OVERALL SPEED DECREASES. however, since ships are going around 30% ish slower, and missile blasts are 80% slower... i fail to see any sort of balance. I mean, what do i know, i'm just a caldari pilot with a chip on his shoulder cause his CNR, a ship basically made for missioning, now does significantly less damage to everything, even against ships that are its own ship class... not like this is anything new to this topic mind you...
I would think that heavy missiles would do better versus larger class targets, and the sad part is their blast speed is still slow enough that many NPC BATTLESHIPS can reduce the damage taken as well. And good luck killing spider drones in your Cerberus! damned spider drones still orbit at freakish speeds and without small drones it took me almost 25 volleys with heavy missiles 5 and a full CN fit and a 4.5 second rate of fire whereas they used to only take 10-15 and were still irritating to take out. I've noticed a few other NPC ships that i used to be able to keep up with in my CNR as opposed to now where they're running rings around me.
so. in short. missioning has lost what little pleasure it had and ratting with missiles hasn't really gained any awards from this "expansion" either, and for those of us who relied on our stealth bombers, caracals, and Cerberus's for pvp are basically SOL. thank you CCP for helping me realize all this extra time I've taken training missiles to where i could blow things apart in lvl4's to where they take long enough for me to get burnt out after maybe one or two missions done solo.
of course, we did get that "cool" little certification system... that makes everything better for us because those are actually useful for... umm.. what ARE they useful for apart from a way to say "hey, i'm either not specialized or have so many skillpoints that I've started training things i'll never use" but thats a rant for a less missile-nerf-induced headache day.
edit: afterthought BESIDES! who uses micro warp drives in missions anyways, so how does the missile effectiveness versus micro warp drives help in any way in missions?
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Gneeznow
Minmatar North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2008.11.12 10:29:00 -
[292]
Originally by: Cpt Branko
Originally by: Taius Pax I picked up Blockade lvl 4, and I've been shooting non stop for 30 minutes and I'm barely through the first spawn. 7X CN Launchers with 3X CN BCU. What kind of bull**** is this?
Enjoy your nano nerf, Caldari pigs.
:awesome:
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spinarax
Privateers
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Posted - 2008.11.12 10:31:00 -
[293]
Edited by: spinarax on 12/11/2008 10:35:31 The way i see it, Missile got nerfed : lower exp velocity Guns got nerfed : less effective web Close range ships : MWD shutdown on scram Nano ships : speed nerf sniper ships(kinda): Locus rigs stacking penalty ... so basically almost everybody got nerfed which mean nobody is really at a disadvantage, no? PVP-wise at least. I think all this just make combat a bit more challenging which is always welcome, IMO
EDIT: to caldari mission runners, try doing using long range gunships maybe? , its a lot more fun when u blow BCs in one voley with an arty
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Cat Molina
Minmatar Psychotic Inc.
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Posted - 2008.11.12 10:33:00 -
[294]
Originally by: Vicious Salvo It's funny to see people scream 'FIT WEB!; PAINTER!; AFTERBURNER!, now shut up' as if they were fitting an mega or armageddon, where you have mid-slots to give without having to worry about sacrificing a considerable amount of tank. Just fitting a web to serve its purpose would make an afterburner mandatory. You can just forget about fitting all three. I haven't seen a raven setup thats viable on just 3 slot tank, ignoring possible cap issues which would probably crop up for those who don't have high skill points in all applicable areas.
You mean like a mission Maelstrom?.
You think missiles are bad? Try artillery. Yeah... tracking took a hit too. There's a reason Ravens were number one in PvE for so long.
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Pr1ncess Alia
Caldari Perkone
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Posted - 2008.11.12 10:36:00 -
[295]
Originally by: spinarax The way i see it, Missile got nerfed : lower exp velocity Guns got nerfed : less effective web Close range ships : MWD shutdown on scram Nano ships : speed nerf sniper ships(kinda): Locus rigs stacking penalty ... so basically almost everybody got nerfed which mean nobody is really at a disadvantage, no? PVP-wise at least. I think all this just make combat a bit more challenging which is always welcome, IMO
true
also makes pve more challenging. this is aka loooonger and more time consuming this is aka increasing the grind. which is awsomely packaged as an EXPANSION
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Vicious Salvo
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.11.12 10:36:00 -
[296]
Don't know much about artillery, but as long as you can kill battleships whats the problem?
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Malcanis
RuffRyders Eradication Alliance
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Posted - 2008.11.12 10:38:00 -
[297]
Originally by: Stork DK I love it how the carebears whined for a nerf to nanos and ended up getting hit by the rebounce of the bat
Well I did try and warn them...
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Berious
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2008.11.12 10:41:00 -
[298]
Originally by: spinarax Edited by: spinarax on 12/11/2008 10:35:31 The way i see it, Missile got nerfed : lower exp velocity Guns got nerfed : less effective web Close range ships : MWD shutdown on scram Nano ships : speed nerf sniper ships(kinda): Locus rigs stacking penalty ... so basically almost everybody got nerfed which mean nobody is really at a disadvantage, no? PVP-wise at least. I think all this just make combat a bit more challenging which is always welcome, IMO
EDIT: to caldari mission runners, try doing using long range gunships maybe? , its a lot more fun when u blow BCs in one voley with an arty
Pretty much, though looks like it was a shock to the system for Caldari as they expected to be WTFPWNing after this patch. The rest of us resigned ourselves to a nerfing weeks ago.
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Vicious Salvo
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.11.12 10:42:00 -
[299]
OWWWWW MY FACE! Didn't know Iceland were big fans of baseball. Playing it in the snow explains all the bat related casualties.
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Squably
Minmatar Republic Military School
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Posted - 2008.11.12 10:44:00 -
[300]
Torpedoes n Drones! Signature removed. Please do not imply profanity in your signature. Navigator
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