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branodn lee
Minmatar Capital Ships Inc. Morsus Empire
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Posted - 2008.11.12 02:42:00 -
[1]
as the subject says, who thinks ccp went to far on the nerf of missiles.
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Demonic Sentiment
Caldari Dissonance Corp Libertas Fidelitas
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Posted - 2008.11.12 02:45:00 -
[2]
i.. plz.. missiles need to be looked at again.. or atleast give the cerberus some kind of bonus so it can hit other cruisers for atleast some dps... sence u ****ed my hams up so bad and am now stuck useing heavy missiles
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Dirk Magnum
Royal Hiigaran Navy
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Posted - 2008.11.12 02:45:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Dirk Magnum on 12/11/2008 02:45:32
I blew through a Level 4 with a Drake a little earlier. Honestly I think heavy missiles are even more effective against BC's and BS's than they used to be. Light drones seem to be doing more damage too although maybe that's my imagination.
The missiles definitely do less damage against small targets though, and the smaller targets seemed to be hitting me pretty hard for their size. But it seems like a fair trade. I don't use BS-sized missiles though except for Bombers and I haven't tested those yet.
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Chaos Incarnate
Faceless Logistics
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Posted - 2008.11.12 02:46:00 -
[4]
I haven't had much difficulty. _____________________
My opinions plus a tablespoon of water may be substituted for your own. |
Joss Sparq
Caldari ANZAC ALLIANCE Southern Cross Alliance
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Posted - 2008.11.12 02:47:00 -
[5]
I haven't tested it out myself yet (trapped in classes) but I'm starting to wonder if we'll hear the bang from the CNR market crashing even further.
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Megan Maynard
Minmatar Out of Order
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Posted - 2008.11.12 02:47:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Chaos Incarnate I haven't had much difficulty.
This.
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Veldya
Guristari Freedom Fighters
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Posted - 2008.11.12 02:47:00 -
[7]
I have no problem with the theory behind the changes, however, they didn't take into account the negative aspects of missiles. Time it takes to do damage, their vulnerability to area effect damage, defenders and lose a lot more damage to jamming as fired salvos lose locks.
There are just no real upside to missiles anymore to warrant the negative baggage. They should just make them resolve damage instantaneous and not be vulnerable to area effect damage and defenders given a battleship with an AB will be mitigating half the damage before you hit any resistances.
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Demonic Sentiment
Caldari Dissonance Corp Libertas Fidelitas
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Posted - 2008.11.12 02:52:00 -
[8]
basicly missiles werent great for pvp before.. now they are basicly useless lol
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Megan Maynard
Minmatar Out of Order
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Posted - 2008.11.12 02:52:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Veldya I have no problem with the theory behind the changes, however, they didn't take into account the negative aspects of missiles. Time it takes to do damage, their vulnerability to area effect damage, defenders and lose a lot more damage to jamming as fired salvos lose locks.
There are just no real upside to missiles anymore to warrant the negative baggage. They should just make them resolve damage instantaneous and not be vulnerable to area effect damage and defenders given a battleship with an AB will be mitigating half the damage before you hit any resistances.
Except there is no way to avoid the same class missile as what you are flying in now.
If your sig radius is large enough, and the missile catches you, it will hit for some decent damage.
So MWD will no longer save your ass anymore against a missile, it's quite the opposite now. (Unless you are outrunning torps. but that's different.)
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Chaos Incarnate
Faceless Logistics
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Posted - 2008.11.12 02:55:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Demonic Sentiment basicly missiles werent great for pvp before.. now they are basicly useless lol
You mean you used to have missiles that could hit nanoships? _____________________
My opinions plus a tablespoon of water may be substituted for your own. |
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Dirk Magnum
Royal Hiigaran Navy
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Posted - 2008.11.12 02:56:00 -
[11]
MWD increased the damage of larger missiles against you before in theory. The only reason you didn't take more damage in practice was because your velocity offset the explosion. If you had a MWD activated and if the missile caught you in the middle of a course change, you were going to take a major hit. So that hasn't really changed. It's just that a lower maximum velocity makes these harder hits more likely.
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Depopulo
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Posted - 2008.11.12 03:03:00 -
[12]
It sucks..just went ratting in my Torp Raven....
1.The raven speed has been nerfed...the NPC BS's go faster than me now... 2.The explosion velocity on my torp is now about 99 m/sec..the NPC BS travels at about 139 m/sec...
Which means the explosion on a torp is to slow to do full damage(put NPC resistance aside atm) on a huge ass BS.
I have Target Nav Prediction trained to 4..even at 5 it will still be nerfed.
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Vikarion
Caldari White Rose Society
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Posted - 2008.11.12 03:05:00 -
[13]
Originally by: branodn lee as the subject says, who thinks ccp went to far on the nerf of missiles.
I do.
Oh, and I fly Amarr.
I suspect that the real reason for the missile nerf is that, story-line-wise, CCP need the Gallente to win.
Because their Q&A department couldn't have screwed them up this bad on purpose, right? Right?
Oh. Right.
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Goyda
Destry's Lounge
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Posted - 2008.11.12 03:05:00 -
[14]
Wanna kill a missle laden battleship, just get 4 or 5 assault frigs with after burners and you can speed tank cruise and torps. I have wicked missle skills and we tested it. I could not kill the AF. cruise hitting for 11 and torps for 7. I'm just not sure how this makes sense. like saying a REAL battleship would not be able to sink a small destroyer or frigate. sheesh. well it was bound to happen I guess. Every mmorpg I've played turned into making the game easier for new players and the carebear players, which is about the time I moved on. I didn't complain when they nerfed NOS, made sense. And now it's nearly impossible for a battleship to kill a frigate ! like saying you can't squish a bug with your boot because you're SO much bigger than it, and it has a small sig radius.
ugh... and yes I have PLENTY of cheese to go with this whine.
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Dirk Magnum
Royal Hiigaran Navy
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Posted - 2008.11.12 03:08:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Goyda Wanna kill a missle laden battleship, just get 4 or 5 assault frigs with after burners and you can speed tank cruise and torps. I have wicked missle skills and we tested it. I could not kill the AF. cruise hitting for 11 and torps for 7. I'm just not sure how this makes sense. like saying a REAL battleship would not be able to sink a small destroyer or frigate. sheesh. well it was bound to happen I guess. Every mmorpg I've played turned into making the game easier for new players and the carebear players, which is about the time I moved on. I didn't complain when they nerfed NOS, made sense. And now it's nearly impossible for a battleship to kill a frigate ! like saying you can't squish a bug with your boot because you're SO much bigger than it, and it has a small sig radius.
ugh... and yes I have PLENTY of cheese to go with this whine.
Yeah but a real battleship shooting at a real destroyer is shooting at something that is not only closer to its own size than an Eve AF is to a BS, but also something that is moving much closer to its own speed.
Of course a real destroyer may also be packing weaponry capable of doing massive damage to a battleship. Armor-busting guided missiles, for instance. No shields IRL.
But in before "no comparisons with RL ships plx"
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Vikarion
Caldari White Rose Society
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Posted - 2008.11.12 03:09:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Goyda Wanna kill a missle laden battleship, just get 4 or 5 assault frigs with after burners and you can speed tank cruise and torps. I have wicked missle skills and we tested it. I could not kill the AF. cruise hitting for 11 and torps for 7. I'm just not sure how this makes sense. like saying a REAL battleship would not be able to sink a small destroyer or frigate. sheesh. well it was bound to happen I guess. Every mmorpg I've played turned into making the game easier for new players and the carebear players, which is about the time I moved on. I didn't complain when they nerfed NOS, made sense. And now it's nearly impossible for a battleship to kill a frigate ! like saying you can't squish a bug with your boot because you're SO much bigger than it, and it has a small sig radius.
ugh... and yes I have PLENTY of cheese to go with this whine.
To kill AF:
Fit: 1 Web 1 Scram 1 Heavy Neut
Activate all on your target and saute gently. Serve to taste.
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Goyda
Destry's Lounge
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Posted - 2008.11.12 03:10:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Dirk Magnum
Originally by: Goyda Wanna kill a missle laden battleship, just get 4 or 5 assault frigs with after burners and you can speed tank cruise and torps. I have wicked missle skills and we tested it. I could not kill the AF. cruise hitting for 11 and torps for 7. I'm just not sure how this makes sense. like saying a REAL battleship would not be able to sink a small destroyer or frigate. sheesh. well it was bound to happen I guess. Every mmorpg I've played turned into making the game easier for new players and the carebear players, which is about the time I moved on. I didn't complain when they nerfed NOS, made sense. And now it's nearly impossible for a battleship to kill a frigate ! like saying you can't squish a bug with your boot because you're SO much bigger than it, and it has a small sig radius.
ugh... and yes I have PLENTY of cheese to go with this whine.
Yeah but a real battleship shooting at a real destroyer is shooting at something that is not only closer to its own size than an Eve AF is to a BS, but also something that is moving much closer to its own speed.
Of course a real destroyer may also be packing weaponry capable of doing massive damage to a battleship. Armor-busting guided missiles, for instance. No shields IRL.
But in before "no comparisons with RL ships plx"
yeah but a RL BS, would one shot a destroyer. :)
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Khamal Jolstien
Caldari Product Number 3
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Posted - 2008.11.12 03:10:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Megan Maynard
Originally by: Veldya I have no problem with the theory behind the changes, however, they didn't take into account the negative aspects of missiles. Time it takes to do damage, their vulnerability to area effect damage, defenders and lose a lot more damage to jamming as fired salvos lose locks.
There are just no real upside to missiles anymore to warrant the negative baggage. They should just make them resolve damage instantaneous and not be vulnerable to area effect damage and defenders given a battleship with an AB will be mitigating half the damage before you hit any resistances.
Except there is no way to avoid the same class missile as what you are flying in now.
If your sig radius is large enough, and the missile catches you, it will hit for some decent damage.
So MWD will no longer save your ass anymore against a missile, it's quite the opposite now. (Unless you are outrunning torps. but that's different.)
But you don't need it to. It's doing craptastic damage anyway ;-)
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Ghoest
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Posted - 2008.11.12 03:11:00 -
[19]
Basically to protect interceptors they destroyed missiles for all other PVP applications(which they werent strong for to start with.).
If you think corp is different than a guild or clan you have some insecurity issues.
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Goyda
Destry's Lounge
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Posted - 2008.11.12 03:12:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Vikarion
Originally by: Goyda Wanna kill a missle laden battleship, just get 4 or 5 assault frigs with after burners and you can speed tank cruise and torps. I have wicked missle skills and we tested it. I could not kill the AF. cruise hitting for 11 and torps for 7. I'm just not sure how this makes sense. like saying a REAL battleship would not be able to sink a small destroyer or frigate. sheesh. well it was bound to happen I guess. Every mmorpg I've played turned into making the game easier for new players and the carebear players, which is about the time I moved on. I didn't complain when they nerfed NOS, made sense. And now it's nearly impossible for a battleship to kill a frigate ! like saying you can't squish a bug with your boot because you're SO much bigger than it, and it has a small sig radius.
ugh... and yes I have PLENTY of cheese to go with this whine.
To kill AF:
Fit: 1 Web 1 Scram 1 Heavy Neut
Activate all on your target and saute gently. Serve to taste.
Ummm, scram, < 10K, web reduced the speed to 400m/s and the neut didn't stop him from burning away. and this was ONE ship. if there were 4 or 5 well that'd be all she wrote. for the raven.
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Lone Hitman
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Posted - 2008.11.12 03:13:00 -
[21]
I just went mission running on "Unauthorized Military Presence" (Blood Raiders, level 4) that used to be fairly easy (but you don't get many loyalty points) and now it's taking 3-4 times longer for the same reward! I also have to recharge my shield a HUGE amount compared to what it was like before. I mission run in a Golem with max siege skills, using javelin torpedoes and the difference now is absolutely ridiculous. Don't forget this is meant to be an EASY mission, I dread to think what a hard one's like now. I'm not even going to bother until they fix it.
Fair enough making it a little bit more difficult, but they've gone too far this time.
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Goyda
Destry's Lounge
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Posted - 2008.11.12 03:14:00 -
[22]
Edited by: Goyda on 12/11/2008 03:14:27
Originally by: Ghoest Basically to protect interceptors they destroyed missiles for all other PVP applications(which they werent strong for to start with.).
I don't see how, most intys were doing ~6k/s and my missle weren't hitting them so how did they protect them. they're the mini coups they should be vunerable. Ahh well no use complaining, just have to go to mmorpg.com and start looking for something new to play. damn shame too, I've been giving CCP my money for ALOT of years now and the skills I trained for were just jacked. And yes I still have plenty of cheese.
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Sig Sour
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Posted - 2008.11.12 03:16:00 -
[23]
I suppose now that the patch is out, Ill let you in on the secret. PWNAGE. Ive been buying it up like mad for the last few months, and now its for sale for 20x what i paid for it. PWNAGE is now necessary.
For those of you new to using PWNAGE, search for Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron.
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Mister Xerox
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Posted - 2008.11.12 03:16:00 -
[24]
Upshooting makes missiles even better (engaging targets larger than the missiles intended target class) whereas engaging the intended class of targets or smaller makes missiles... completely pointless.
Thus, the Raven is out and the Drake is in for Lvl 4 pwnage.
Yes, they went too far and did not test nearly enough to understand how craptastic some of the changes were. Ohh well, CCP strikes again.
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Jason Edwards
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Posted - 2008.11.12 03:17:00 -
[25]
I dont ever use any missiles other then cruise missiles. But I also trained torps to lvl 1 just to see on sisi.
I made the fact pretty clear... cruise when used against battleships and such are more or less unchanged.
Stealth bombers have been rendered worthless still.
I also find out from nearly maxed out torp golem users... they are seeing nearly 50% less damage vs bs. 80% or so less damage vs cruisers and bcs. and utter inability to kill mwd npc frigs.
Which is soooo wrong. ------------------------ Have you fed your slaves recently? -BRB Rens |
Demonic Sentiment
Caldari Dissonance Corp Libertas Fidelitas
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Posted - 2008.11.12 03:18:00 -
[26]
i wonder if they will change it abit.. i loved my cerb : (
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Another Forum'Alt
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Posted - 2008.11.12 03:20:00 -
[27]
Definitely.
Nerf Zulupark. NOW. |
Goyda
Destry's Lounge
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Posted - 2008.11.12 03:21:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Mister Xerox Upshooting makes missiles even better (engaging targets larger than the missiles intended target class) whereas engaging the intended class of targets or smaller makes missiles... completely pointless.
Thus, the Raven is out and the Drake is in for Lvl 4 pwnage.
Yes, they went too far and did not test nearly enough to understand how craptastic some of the changes were. Ohh well, CCP strikes again.
Yeah this might just be the final blow for me. In all seriousness. Take something working and break it. All MMORPGs do it. I stopped playing EQ when they did (for EvE oddly enough) I guess it's just eve's time.
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Demonic Sentiment
Caldari Dissonance Corp Libertas Fidelitas
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Posted - 2008.11.12 03:21:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Jason Edwards I dont ever use any missiles other then cruise missiles. But I also trained torps to lvl 1 just to see on sisi.
I made the fact pretty clear... cruise when used against battleships and such are more or less unchanged.
Stealth bombers have been rendered worthless still.
I also find out from nearly maxed out torp golem users... they are seeing nearly 50% less damage vs bs. 80% or so less damage vs cruisers and bcs. and utter inability to kill mwd npc frigs.
Which is soooo wrong.
wait umm.. what has happened with stealthbombers.. can thaey hit anything lol
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Veldya
Guristari Freedom Fighters
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Posted - 2008.11.12 03:26:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Megan Maynard
Except there is no way to avoid the same class missile as what you are flying in now.
Ships were never meant to out-run missiles. I had no problems catching most nano ships with the old system but the speed mitigated the damage down to zero because the old formula didn't account for the speed ships could travel at.
Quote:
If your sig radius is large enough, and the missile catches you, it will hit for some decent damage.
Well, the definition of decent is debatable. Firing cruise missiles at a Typhoon you lose 55% of damage for just going at AB speed, that is with no implants and not speed mods.
Light missiles which are the frigate size weapon will lose 40%+ of damage against a frigate just from stock level 5 skills + AB on a frigate. It will be in the vicinity of 60% or so for any speed modded ship. This is before resistances.
So your 103 damage kinetic light missile will likely be hitting a frigate for less than 20 damage. You don't want to know what you will be hitting an assault ship for.
Quote:
So MWD will no longer save your ass anymore against a missile, it's quite the opposite now. (Unless you are outrunning torps. but that's different.)
MWD will increase the damage by missiles slightly for smaller faster ships, the real change of speed tanking is to improve speed while keeping signature radius down as much as possible.
The mechanics are an improvement when it comes to PvP vs speed ships, but the adverse effect is that missile damage has been significantly reduced for ships that are not speed tanking. Minmatar battleships get a massive boost in defense against missiles just because of their significantly smaller signature radius.
You just dont need battleships traveling at AB speed to mitigate half your damage before you factor resists. It puts them at a significant disadvantage over turrets, as if they weren't **** enough in fleet battles.
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