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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
DownTwisTeD
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Posted - 2008.11.23 15:14:00 -
[451]
welp, when i seen my ravens torps not hitting anything over 30km then doing no damage over 30 to ai frigs i just started laffing my head off then turned it around and parked it..
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Hyveres
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.11.23 15:17:00 -
[452]
Edited by: Hyveres on 23/11/2008 15:20:23 Edited by: Hyveres on 23/11/2008 15:18:50
Originally by: Karille
Originally by: Hyveres The same way railboats and beamships are not supposed to hit frigates at 80 km + ranges when the frigates are static right?
Once turretships are incapable of hitting frigates for enough damage to outdps a single small shieldbooster or small armour repair module nomatter the range , or frigates velocity I will agree with you.
So you would be okay with never being able to hit a moving frigate inside of 40km? Sounds like you need to train for rails.
As it is now lobbing cruise missiles at a frig within 250 km is a waste of ammo , so all about the dronebay.
Take a turretbased ship and fire at long or extreme ranges and you might one volley the same frig.
As for some said about the MWD effect, to hit a frigate for meaningfull damage means using cruisersized weapons or frigatesized ones.
Try killing any frigatesetup that includes somekind of regen module with cruise missiles or torpedoes and you will fail.
And you know the fun part , missiles still have their classic drawbacks , flight time , extremly affected by target velocity with no way to compensate, etc .
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Kerfira
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Posted - 2008.11.23 15:21:00 -
[453]
Edited by: Kerfira on 23/11/2008 15:21:05
Originally by: Hyveres Try killing any frigatesetup that includes somekind of regen module with cruise missiles or torpedoes and you will fail.
You SHOULD fail! FYI, torps are intended for battleship sized targets. If you want to shoot frigates, fit the proper weapons!
Mr. Waa-waa-I-want-things-broken-again-so-I-can-play-EVE-on-easy-mode... stop crying. The games weapon types are now reasonably balanced, AS THEY SHOULD BE!
Btw, I fly missile ships
Originally by: CCP Wrangler EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
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Hyveres
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.11.23 15:22:00 -
[454]
Edited by: Hyveres on 23/11/2008 15:24:20 Edited by: Hyveres on 23/11/2008 15:23:45
Originally by: Kerfira Edited by: Kerfira on 23/11/2008 15:21:05
Originally by: Hyveres Try killing any frigatesetup that includes somekind of regen module with cruise missiles or torpedoes and you will fail.
You SHOULD fail! FYI, torps are intended for battleship sized targets. If you want to shoot frigates, fit the proper weapons!
Mr. Waa-waa-I-want-things-broken-again-so-I-can-play-EVE-on-easy-mode... stop crying. The games weapon types are now reasonably balanced, AS THEY SHOULD BE!
Btw, I fly missile ships
So why not nerf beams , rails and arty's then
Or are them hitting the frigates ok?
And tbh since you are an obvious PvPer I dont see the point in arguing with you , missiles got a PvP buff and a PvE nerf. While rockets(and only rockets) became useless for anything except killing drones.
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Odessima
Caldari The Black Rabbits The Gurlstas Associates
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Posted - 2008.11.23 15:23:00 -
[455]
Originally by: soulkiller3 Am still not seeing a valid reason missiles are not balanced now, just people crying that they one type of missile cant kill everything. That is not how eve works and you can cry and cry on the forums as much as you like, and CCP will not take notice as no one is brining up a reason why its not balanced, you have other options for killing frigs, drones, heveys and hell even but 2 220`s or 2 blasters on your spare 2 high slots on a raven, or even put on a smart bomb.
Actually my Raven carries more than one type of torpedo at all times, and the one type of missile I was using before is a lot less effective against targets moving at 0 speed that are the same class of ship, yes I can take out a midslot item to fit a target painter ( btw you do realise that the optimal range on a target painter is outside the range of my torpedoes), and sacrifice some more shield, so fit a web as well and take some more tank out, which has basically halved the tank on my short range battleship.
And yet my Gallente pilot still fits the same midslots ( web, scram and booster ) which I cant fit on my Caldari ship if I want to keep the same tank as my mega fit on gallente pilot, the same lowslots and gets the same damage...........I mean it really is way too much to ask for them to be able to compete equally after all they are both 2nd tier battle ships. Caldari Character has more skill points invested in That particular ship than my gallente has on his mega
People keep on mentioning drones as well for caldari ships, sure they can fit 5 drones, try fitting 5 heavy drones in a raven.
IF these balance changes had affected my Gallente Character as much as my Caldari Character and I thought they were equalising all race ships I wouldnt be on this forum posting.
Why should I have to retrain my Caldari Character when I will not have to for any of my other Race character, Minnie, Amarr, and Gallente? |
Tippia
Caldari Raddick Explorations BlackWater.
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Posted - 2008.11.23 15:25:00 -
[456]
Originally by: Hyveres So why not nerf beams , rails and arty's then
If by "nerf" you mean "remove optimal and allow them to hit at any range" then sure.
No sig for me, thankyouverymuch. |
Hyveres
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.11.23 15:26:00 -
[457]
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Hyveres So why not nerf beams , rails and arty's then
If by "nerf" you mean "remove optimal and allow them to hit at any range" then sure.
And make their damage dependant on target velocity vs sig radius ofc :)
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OffBeaT
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Posted - 2008.11.23 15:26:00 -
[458]
frigs should not have a free pass against BS in the way they do..
a BS is a BS and should not be so vulnerable to frig attacks like they are.
i WONT the ability to cut frigs off from fleet so they cant ambush me as easy as they do now in a BS.
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Tippia
Caldari Raddick Explorations BlackWater.
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Posted - 2008.11.23 15:28:00 -
[459]
Edited by: Tippia on 23/11/2008 15:30:02
Originally by: Odessima People keep on mentioning drones as well for caldari ships, sure they can fit 5 drones, try fitting 5 heavy drones in a raven.
People are mentioning drones for the purpose of hittting things that your cruises/torps can't deal with. Why on earth would you want to use heavies for that purpose?
…oh, and 75m¦/75Mbps combo means you can field the multi-efficient 1+2+2 combo. Try it.
Originally by: Hyveres
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Hyveres So why not nerf beams , rails and arty's then
If by "nerf" you mean "remove optimal and allow them to hit at any range" then sure.
And make their damage dependant on target velocity vs sig radius ofc :)
You mean the way it already is? Sure!
No sig for me, thankyouverymuch. |
Hyveres
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.11.23 15:34:00 -
[460]
TBH frigs is just a side argument. Since there are only 1 situation where I will use battleship sized missiles vs frigates.
The main complaint from missileusers is being tanked by battleships , at any range and problems doing meaningfull damage towards cruisers at any range.
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Obyrith
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Posted - 2008.11.23 15:43:00 -
[461]
Originally by: WA Dragon
So what your saying is a CNR would win with drones and 2 rail guns v 6 T1 Merlins.
Just out of interest (because I have no axe to grind regarding the patch) where did this idea come from that 1 player in a large ship was supposed to be able to beat 6 players in a small ship just because his ship is expensive? Because I'd have thought that the opposite is the way Eve ought to work, being as how it's a multiplayer game an' all.
But gee, I wouldn't know, I've only been playing this game for two and half months. Maybe instead of having exciting battles we can just compare the contents of each other's wallets, like IRL.
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Odessima
Caldari The Black Rabbits The Gurlstas Associates
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Posted - 2008.11.23 16:05:00 -
[462]
Originally by: Tippia Edited by: Tippia on 23/11/2008 15:30:02
Originally by: Odessima People keep on mentioning drones as well for caldari ships, sure they can fit 5 drones, try fitting 5 heavy drones in a raven.
People are mentioning drones for the purpose of hittting things that your cruises/torps can't deal with. Why on earth would you want to use heavies for that purpose?
àoh, and 75m¦/75Mbps combo means you can field the multi-efficient 1+2+2 combo. Try it.
Originally by: Hyveres
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Hyveres So why not nerf beams , rails and arty's then
If by "nerf" you mean "remove optimal and allow them to hit at any range" then sure.
And make their damage dependant on target velocity vs sig radius ofc :)
You mean the way it already is? Sure!
Actually the mix of drones I have works fine, but then again I am not currently using a raven to PVE, and 1+2+2 combination isnt very effective in my situation at all but thankyou for pointing out that. Its about as balancing as removing optimals off energy weapons. But seeing as it is quite obvious that all equivelent Battleships dont have the same drone bays and bonus's it is quite pointless including them unless of course you think that they are equal across all races, and of course I accept that Caldari arent the Drone Race. But please allow that Caldari Missile boats are suppossed to have an aspect that they excel in the same way that every other race does. |
Kerfira
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Posted - 2008.11.23 18:58:00 -
[463]
Originally by: Hyveres So why not nerf beams , rails and arty's then
Or are them hitting the frigates ok?
Got some news for you... BS sized guns don't hit frigates at all when they're in close and keep up transversal....
Again, this is the part that is too complex for you to understand, that each weapon type has advantages and disadvantages.
Originally by: Hyveres And tbh since you are an obvious PvPer I dont see the point in arguing with you , missiles got a PvP buff and a PvE nerf. While rockets(and only rockets) became useless for anything except killing drones.
I PvP and PvE with missiles... In neither have I seen any big deterioration of capabilities because: a. I use the missiles intended for the targets I shoot! b. I fit my ship for the task I'm about to do! c. I've trained other skills than BS sized missiles!
In fact, my PvE efficiency seem to have gone UP a bit since the changes...
Stop crying.... or maybe not... Your tears are entertaining. It is not often one see such a degree of not being able to adapt...
Originally by: CCP Wrangler EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
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Kerfira
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Posted - 2008.11.23 19:01:00 -
[464]
Edited by: Kerfira on 23/11/2008 19:04:25
Originally by: OffBeaT frigs should not have a free pass against BS in the way they do..
a BS is a BS and should not be so vulnerable to frig attacks like they are.
i WONT the ability to cut frigs off from fleet so they cant ambush me as easy as they do now in a BS.
You're wrong! Battleships that goes out without a proper escort SHOULD die (horribly) to a frig gang!
This is CCP guiding principle behind the battleship: "The battleship isn't, nor was it ever intended to be, a solowtfpwnmobile!"
...which makes whatever you think a BS should or should not be completely irrelevant!
Originally by: CCP Wrangler EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
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Kerfira
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Posted - 2008.11.23 19:04:00 -
[465]
Edited by: Kerfira on 23/11/2008 19:03:54
Originally by: Odessima People keep on mentioning drones as well for caldari ships, sure they can fit 5 drones, try fitting 5 heavy drones in a raven.
Why do you want to fit heavy drones in a Raven? You already got torps or cruises to kill battleships (which is what heavy drones are good for).
On a Raven you carry 5 light and 5 medium drones. The lights to kill frigates, and the mediums to kill cruisers. ...much more efficient than heavies....
Originally by: CCP Wrangler EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
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Tippia
Caldari Raddick Explorations BlackWater.
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Posted - 2008.11.23 19:09:00 -
[466]
Originally by: OffBeaT frigs should not have a free pass against BS in the way they do..
They don't. Battleships have plenty of weapon systems available to them that can mess smaller ships up something fierce.
Quote: a BS is a BS and should not be so vulnerable to frig attacks like they are.
How vulnerable are we talking here? Also, why shouldn't they? "Just because" is an feeble reason. |
Brea Lafail
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Posted - 2008.11.23 19:45:00 -
[467]
Originally by: Kerfira Got some news for you... BS sized guns don't hit frigates at all when they're in close and keep up transversal....
Originally by: Kerfira when they're in close and keep up transversal....
Originally by: Kerfira transversal
Pray tell, what advantage do missiles gain over projectiles to make up for transversal not having any effect?
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Tippia
Caldari Raddick Explorations BlackWater.
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Posted - 2008.11.23 19:54:00 -
[468]
Originally by: Brea Lafail Pray tell, what advantage do missiles gain over projectiles to make up for transversal not having any effect?
Say what?
Why would they get additional advantages to "make up for" the advantage of not being affected by transversal? Or did you confuse transversal with speed in general?
No sig for me, thankyouverymuch. |
J'oorus
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Posted - 2008.11.23 20:21:00 -
[469]
/sign As this is my only source of dps .. as a starting Caldari missile pilot I feel like the my feet have been cut from underneath me .. and without any crutch to fall back on ...
This is very bad .. at least give us a few skillups in Gunnery for free .. for the time we spent training a bunch of skills that are now next to useless.
J'oorus
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KhamEee Kazee
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Posted - 2008.11.23 20:23:00 -
[470]
(My views, mainly from a PvE perspective) I for one think they went not just too far, but way too far with the nerfing of missiles. Missiles used to be effective, even with low SP for PvE/Missions, and on the very low end of of DPS for PvP, but had the advantage of not having to get close or worry about tracking to deal that low'ish damage. Which IMO was a completely fair tradeoff. Now Cruise missiles utterly suck compared to turrets for missions. Why? There's waay too many small targets on level 4 missions, and even vs. Battleships cruise missiles wont even do decent dmg if they move too fast. Same with heavy missiles vs. other cruisers, they do a whopping 30-35% less dmg now due to the dmg reduction even low speeds cause.
After QR I've completely shelved my CNR due to frustrations over the uselessness of Cruise missiles, and now only run missions in my Turretboats which are now roughly 20% faster than my CNR, where it used to be the CNR that was 20-30% faster.
In my experience the missile nerf seems rushed and not well tested at all.
Example: Cruise missile base explosion velocity = 69 meters pr. second. C-4 has an explosion velocity of around 8000 meters pr. second. So cruise missiles in EvE explode 115 times slower than C-4 (Slower than any explosive on the planet today, and 3 times slower than your average BB gun shoots). Yeah, yeah I know, can't compare like that, but tbh it just shows how rushed the change was, and how NOT thoroughly it was thought through before implementing it.
If missiles needed a nerf so they wouldn't be overpowered after nerfing nanofittings, it should NOT have been done like this. CCP, IMO needs to go back to the drawing board and redo the changes so they at least make some sense. Nerfs are fine as long as they're needed. But making something almost useless is not just a nerf, it's just plain foolishness. |
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Kerfira
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Posted - 2008.11.23 20:30:00 -
[471]
Originally by: Brea Lafail Pray tell, what advantage do missiles gain over projectiles to make up for transversal not having any effect?
Missile users can choose damage type freely...
Missiles hit MWD'ing ships EXTREMELY hard...
Missiles are generally long ranged...
Missiles are generally high damage (if you know what you're doing)...
Need more???
...whiner... all too willing to only see the disadvantages and ignore the advantages.... ADAPT!
Originally by: CCP Wrangler EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
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KhamEee Kazee
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Posted - 2008.11.23 20:31:00 -
[472]
Originally by: Kerfira Edited by: Kerfira on 23/11/2008 15:21:05
Originally by: Hyveres Try killing any frigatesetup that includes somekind of regen module with cruise missiles or torpedoes and you will fail.
You SHOULD fail! FYI, torps are intended for battleship sized targets. If you want to shoot frigates, fit the proper weapons!
Mr. Waa-waa-I-want-things-broken-again-so-I-can-play-EVE-on-easy-mode... stop crying. The games weapon types are now reasonably balanced, AS THEY SHOULD BE!
Btw, I fly missile ships
And torps do ~40% less dmg, even on battleships if the targeted ship barely just starts moving. Another thing - My 425mm rails instapop 90% of all the frigates on level 4's, while my Cruise CNR barely scratches frigs with cruise missiles now. Same with cruisers, 1 volley from a Navy Mega easily pops cruisers instantly, while the CNR needs 3 volleys to take down cruisers now even with Cruise lvl 5 + 5% cruise dmg hardwiring. I just have to ask... Where's that balance you're talking about? |
My Sister
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Posted - 2008.11.23 20:33:00 -
[473]
Well, to a certain degree i have changed my opinion on the missile changes over the last feww weeks. when i first logged on after the patch i had a few missions in a row that had elite frigs included in the lineup also i had not adapted my fit to take advantage of the new mechanics.
i have noticed that there are raven pilots who say "im fine its working well" and others who are "omg this nerf is horrific". the conclusion i have come to is that CCP have scaled the missiles effectivness directly proportional to the skill training you have in missiles (just like it is for gunners) - the higher skilled missile boat captians are generally feeling ok about the changes where the lower skilled ones are having an emotional time right now. i have noticed a great improvment in my own damage against frigs from changing my fitting a little and getting my precision skills up and other missile support skills up as well. in fact in general i feel that im getting better hits on frigs than i used to before - particuly when i have them webbed.
my advise to other pilots who are having trouble with frigs - fit a web, get a faction one that does about 14k range they are not too expensive really. forget painters, if you are hitting a frig for about 12hp each cruise a painter will only give you only an extra 3hp per hit not worth the slot really. a web however will more than double your damage on a frig as long as its in range. another thing i do is try lock the frigs way before they get to me many many of then employ a mwd when closing range. you get your best hits at this point. most of the time i manage to kill them before they reach orbit.
drones - should be used spareingly imo, and definatly set them to passive - they have a tallent for going after spawn triggers and since you have been obliged to weaken your tank a bit to "adapt" this can be a bad thing. usually if the small frigs are not webbing or scramming me ill leave them till last and then once i have all most if the big stuff killed i'll pop out the drones and let them go for it. Good for emergencies to get rid of a scrammer fast if needed - bad for getting entire pocket agro.
imo the approach vector of target and missile should be taken into account. i can see how a fast target might outrubn the explosion behind them. but taking a missile right down your throat should hurt. i am not an experienced gunner but i understand even a 1400 howie can get a mighty shot on a frig thats coming directly in a straight line. is that true?
it seems sometimes as if CCP are trying to introduce range penalties for missiles just like guns. by making us obliged to use webbers and painters for optimal damage these mods are range limited. but the way i see it curently is im going to get great damage in close if i have a webber and painter on my target - ok damage in the mid range with just my painter and pretty **** poor damage at greater range - (im talking about AB'ing targets because lets face ti AB's are the new black. by oppperating an afterburner at greater than web range allows you to mitigate over 50% of a missile damage). if we are to be range/damage balanced i think its apropriate for missiles to have a chance at getting critical/wrecking hits.
as it is its generally accepted that missiles are the red headded stepson in the pvp world. guns are the much prefered weapon of choice which only points to a glaring imbalance in the pvp arena.
god i ramble on
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Kerfira
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Posted - 2008.11.23 20:35:00 -
[474]
Originally by: KhamEee Kazee (My views, mainly from a PvE perspective)....
You do not have enough SP to run L4's!
Train drones! Train target painters! Problem solved!
Originally by: KhamEee Kazee Missiles used to be effective, even with low SP for PvE/Missions
Missiles should not be easier to use for PvE than other weapon systems. That they WERE was a game design error. It has been corrected. Deal with it!
Originally by: CCP Wrangler EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
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Kerfira
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Posted - 2008.11.23 20:40:00 -
[475]
Originally by: KhamEee Kazee And torps do ~40% less dmg, even on battleships if the targeted ship barely just starts moving.
Ehhh, no.... My Torp Golem kills BS FASTER than before, even fast angels....
Originally by: KhamEee Kazee Another thing - My 425mm rails instapop 90% of all the frigates on level 4's
Not if they get close... Again read above posts about advantages and disadvantages, you know... transversal and all...
You choose to see the negatives (and expand them) and ignore the positives... You choose scenarios where guns are at their best, and compare with scenarios where missiles are at their worst... Argumenting that way just means you look like a 'tard...
Originally by: CCP Wrangler EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
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KhamEee Kazee
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Posted - 2008.11.23 20:45:00 -
[476]
Edited by: KhamEee Kazee on 23/11/2008 20:46:28
Originally by: Kerfira
Originally by: KhamEee Kazee (My views, mainly from a PvE perspective)....
You do not have enough SP to run L4's!
Train drones! Train target painters! Problem solved!
Originally by: KhamEee Kazee Missiles used to be effective, even with low SP for PvE/Missions
Missiles should not be easier to use for PvE than other weapon systems. That they WERE was a game design error. It has been corrected. Deal with it!
SP : 34.8 million (11.2M Spaceship Command, 9M Gunnery, 5.1M missiles etc.)... SP ain't the problem, nor is doing missions fast. The problem is that the nerf is totally out outta whack. Caldari had the upperhand in PvE, and was the last pick for PvP except for EW ofc. Now they have more disadvantages for PvE compared to turretboats, and they suck even more for PvP than ever before...
CNR, Kronos, Nightmare, Nighthawk pilot... Yeah I'm mainly a Carebear, so shoot me, but I have insight in how the different ships performed, and perform compared to each other after QR. All I'm saying is that the missile nerf made Caldari pretty much "useless" for everything except E-War. The "good in PvE - Worse in PvP" used the be the tradeoff. And they had the lowest dps of all the races too, cept maybe for the torp raven. Caldari is now the ubergimp race of EvE, and IMO it's not balanced at all. Worse than ever before tbh. |
KhamEee Kazee
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Posted - 2008.11.23 20:51:00 -
[477]
Originally by: Kerfira
Originally by: KhamEee Kazee And torps do ~40% less dmg, even on battleships if the targeted ship barely just starts moving.
Ehhh, no.... My Torp Golem kills BS FASTER than before, even fast angels....
Originally by: KhamEee Kazee Another thing - My 425mm rails instapop 90% of all the frigates on level 4's
Not if they get close... Again read above posts about advantages and disadvantages, you know... transversal and all...
You choose to see the negatives (and expand them) and ignore the positives... You choose scenarios where guns are at their best, and compare with scenarios where missiles are at their worst... Argumenting that way just means you look like a 'tard...
You had the missile nerf + the Golems explo velocity bonus nerfed in half (10 -> 5% pr. level) and you claim to kill BS's faster now than before?... Makes no sense, nor does calling me a tard for stating my oppinions. I fly pretty much any ship worth doing missions in (Except a torp Golem and Paladin)... I know the advantages and disadvantages of turrets vs. missiles perfectly, but 90% of the level 4 missions - Frigs spawn in perfect range to instapop them with turrets before you ever have to even think about using your drones. |
Kerfira
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Posted - 2008.11.23 23:18:00 -
[478]
Originally by: KhamEee Kazee You had the missile nerf + the Golems explo velocity bonus nerfed in half (10 -> 5% pr. level) and you claim to kill BS's faster now than before?...
Most battleships dies faster than before. Where they might have taken 4-5 salvos before they now take 4, or similarly... I've not even changed fittings. Golem (Marauder level 4) with 1 PWNAGE painter...
The changes in the missile damage calculation seem to benefit killing BS at least with torps. BC's are generally still 1-volley jobs, and cruisers (apart from T2's) are mostly the same, except some which're much faster (1-volley instead of 3...). Admittedly this is with 12m SP in missiles, and decent drone and painter skills.
The only difference I really see is that torps can't handle T2 frigs anymore (they still handle T1 frigs well). I rarely shot them with torps anyway before...
All in all, my guesstimate is that I do missions ~5% faster than before... I don't have any hard figures for this, but that's how it feels. Some of this might be caused by having to actually pay attention now to your drones, where it was easy-mode before.
Even against Angel BS/BC/CR I still do them faster than before, despite the fact that their speed is high.
Originally by: CCP Wrangler EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
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MenanceWhite
Amarr Ministry of War
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Posted - 2008.11.23 23:44:00 -
[479]
Originally by: KhamEee Kazee You had the missile nerf + the Golems explo velocity bonus nerfed in half (10 -> 5% pr. level) and you claim to kill BS's faster now than before?... Makes no sense
There's been multiple posts saying that velocity vs explo vel now is a minor factor compared to sig comparison in the missile damage formula, which you did'nt even know about that and yet you argument about the missile changes and post as if your "opinions" were hard facts? Makes no sense.
---
Originally by: Torfi There's alot. That can be done. With.. corpses
Originally by: Oveur
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BhallSpawn
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Posted - 2008.11.24 00:51:00 -
[480]
Edited by: BhallSpawn on 24/11/2008 00:51:09 caldari have sucked for pvp for a long time now they suck at pve too
way to go ccp you took the majority race in all of eve and made them not fun.
nice job.
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