Pages: 1 2 3 [4] 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 .. 22 :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Reven Cordelle
Caldari School of Applied Knowledge
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 09:41:00 -
[91]
Edited by: Reven Cordelle on 12/11/2008 09:43:57 Oooo Controversy.
Missions were **** anyway, I only got the same old **** again and again, so **** it. Less QQ moar Pew Pew.
Glad I spent more time training turrets than missiles tbh.
How are rockets by the way? They were a nice little bit of additional DPS, or are those screwed now too?
Edit - Anyone wanna buy a Raven?
|
Chris Liath
Gallente Red Dwarf Mining Corporation space weaponry and trade
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 09:42:00 -
[92]
I don't.
"Oh dear," says God, "I hadn't thought of that," and promptly vanishes in a puff of logic. |
Kerfira
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 09:42:00 -
[93]
Originally by: Hyveres Ever tried to tank AE L4 bonus room with just 3 midslots used for tanking? on a shieldtanker.
Make it work out for a normal raven and I might agree with you.
The AE bonus room is SUPPOSED to be tough! Why do you think it isn't included in the mission objectives?
It being easily solo'able really defeated its purpose! You SHOULDN'T be able to solo it unless you have top-equipment and skills! (a Raven is NOT top equipment)
Compared to all other BS, Ravens have been overpowered for mission running for a long time. This has now been corrected! (I've missioned in a Raven for 3 years, and it WAS way too easy....)
Originally by: CCP Wrangler EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
|
Shintai
Gallente Balad Naran Orbital Shipyards
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 09:46:00 -
[94]
Originally by: Hyveres Edited by: Hyveres on 12/11/2008 09:13:53
Originally by: Arcane Mystery So, they fly to fast for you to do full damage? Web them maybe? They fly to fast for you to catch up? Tried using an AB? Their sig radius to small? Tried using a Target Painter? Don't want to sacrifice 2-3 mids from your tank to fit web/AB/Painter? Maybe you should try to use cruise missiles instead then?
Try to adapt and work out new ways to do things after a change in game instead of just expecting everything to work as before, that usually helps. Also, before you say I have no clue what I talk about.. I fly raven a lot and it works just fine, even after the patch, with some modifications to my old setup.
Ever tried to tank AE L4 bonus room with just 3 midslots used for tanking? on a shieldtanker.
Make it work out for a normal raven and I might agree with you.
Whine less. As an armour tanker its not a place to be already without some extra help. So in short you just got put down with the rest of us. There is a reason why 95% of mission runners fly raven/cnr/golem.
So get a friend or logistics if you cant handle the very heavy DPS room!
Damn whiners.
--------------------------------------
Abstraction and Transcendence: Nature, Shintai, and Geometry |
Hyveres
Caldari
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 09:48:00 -
[95]
Originally by: Shintai
Originally by: Hyveres Edited by: Hyveres on 12/11/2008 09:13:53
Originally by: Arcane Mystery So, they fly to fast for you to do full damage? Web them maybe? They fly to fast for you to catch up? Tried using an AB? Their sig radius to small? Tried using a Target Painter? Don't want to sacrifice 2-3 mids from your tank to fit web/AB/Painter? Maybe you should try to use cruise missiles instead then?
Try to adapt and work out new ways to do things after a change in game instead of just expecting everything to work as before, that usually helps. Also, before you say I have no clue what I talk about.. I fly raven a lot and it works just fine, even after the patch, with some modifications to my old setup.
Ever tried to tank AE L4 bonus room with just 3 midslots used for tanking? on a shieldtanker.
Make it work out for a normal raven and I might agree with you.
Whine less. As an armour tanker its not a place to be already without some extra help. So in short you just got put down with the rest of us. There is a reason why 95% of mission runners fly raven/cnr/golem.
So get a friend or logistics if you cant handle the very heavy DPS room!
Damn whiners.
Oh I can handle it , heck I am glad I was already moving to a turret boat before this nerf came along and its good to fly ships without any real weaknesses and instant damage :)
|
Tippia
Caldari School of Applied Knowledge
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 09:52:00 -
[96]
Originally by: Hyveres Killing 1m bounty angel battleships in a drake is pointless.
Why? Pointless in what way?
Quote: Using drones for small targets is fine , but having to use heavy drones to have proper damage vs battleships just means its probably better to fly any other race's ships.
Define "proper damage" — again, any of the BCs already do just fine against mission battleships.
Also, is there any reason you didn't want to answer my questions?
|
Hyveres
Caldari
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 09:54:00 -
[97]
Time/isk ratio is too low to make it worthwhile.
That is what makes it pointless.
Any cruise missile setup was always inferior to a comparable turretsetup for the proper damagetype.
|
Eran Laude
Gallente The Aduro Protocol
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 09:57:00 -
[98]
I tried popping a few Guristas rats in my Nemesis before I crashed . . .
One volley didn't even halve the shield on a dire arrogator Before QR I could pop any NPC frig in a single volley.
Bombers and missile ships need some loving now - the bomber is genuinely useless if it's basically a frig that can only do damage to Battleships . . .
They definitely went too far, or forgot that bombers exist. If I wanted a ship to kill battleships, I would fly a battleship. But I don't - I fly a bomber. A now useless bomber . . .
|
Tippia
Caldari School of Applied Knowledge
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 10:05:00 -
[99]
Originally by: Hyveres Time/isk ratio is too low to make it worthwhile.
Again, using what setup? Define "proper damage".
|
Orion GUardian
Caldari
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 10:29:00 -
[100]
I think the problem with the missiles is:
CM/Torps are rendeeres useless against anything thats not bigger than a BS. Heavies and Standart seem to be fine I hear? So the smaller missiles are in line with turrets..the LArger are not!
[To the Blaster guys: Yeah you lost webbing but the others lost speed hu? Missiles lost DPS because the formula was changed. You were "!nerfed" passively, the missiles actively]
|
|
My Sister
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 10:33:00 -
[101]
when my faction cruises do 11.2 dmg to a frig and all seven of em cant even break the tank of an average frig.... thats not cool. cant wait to come accross a dire version or an elite fed frig thats gunna be fun.
i just did an average mission spent a whole rack of full launchers killing one frig. took ages - looks like minings the way to go boys
yes i have drones except drones tend to bring down the whole pocket on you - or they get blown up before you take out many frigs cos they got pocket agro. also dont forget that they have now "rebalanced" med drones against frigate sized targets. drones are not the anser to all missle vs frig problems
it seems that CCP wants caldari to have a 3 slot tank because we now have to fit painters and webbers just to kill ****,
these people who say that CCP has only brought missiles into line with guns are full of ****. our ships are designed differently our tanks work differently - to "balance" missiles you have to rethink all sorts of things.
BTW dont even think about fitting a smart bomb if your helping someone out - wrecks can now get you concorded because they belong to the mission owner now
bold move CCP but in the end i think people are going to vote with thier feet - expect quite a high attrition rate. im just ****ed i am paid up till feb next year - talk to me then i might give you my stuff.
|
Caiman Graystock
Comrades in Construction Anarchy.
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 10:44:00 -
[102]
Edited by: Caiman Graystock on 12/11/2008 10:44:42
I can't for the life of me understand what all this crying is about. I've done a couple of level 4 missions since the patch, such as The Assault lvl 4 and Pirate Invasion versus sansha, and I hardly noticed a difference. On some occasions the NPC HACs took an extra salvo to kill at worst.
As for killing frigates with cruise, get some drones.
|
CrestoftheStars
Recreation Of The World
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 11:33:00 -
[103]
Originally by: Megan Maynard
Originally by: Veldya I have no problem with the theory behind the changes, however, they didn't take into account the negative aspects of missiles. Time it takes to do damage, their vulnerability to area effect damage, defenders and lose a lot more damage to jamming as fired salvos lose locks.
There are just no real upside to missiles anymore to warrant the negative baggage. They should just make them resolve damage instantaneous and not be vulnerable to area effect damage and defenders given a battleship with an AB will be mitigating half the damage before you hit any resistances.
Except there is no way to avoid the same class missile as what you are flying in now.
If your sig radius is large enough, and the missile catches you, it will hit for some decent damage.
So MWD will no longer save your ass anymore against a missile, it's quite the opposite now. (Unless you are outrunning torps. but that's different.)
you are talking out of your ass so stfu. if same size target just set on a AB your dmg is reduced around 30-50% depending on weapon sieze.
___________________________________________ Whoever appeals to the law against his fellow man is either a fool or a coward. Whoever cannot take care of himself without that law is both. For a wounded |
Malcanis
RuffRyders Eradication Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 11:34:00 -
[104]
Originally by: CrestoftheStars
Originally by: Megan Maynard
Originally by: Veldya I have no problem with the theory behind the changes, however, they didn't take into account the negative aspects of missiles. Time it takes to do damage, their vulnerability to area effect damage, defenders and lose a lot more damage to jamming as fired salvos lose locks.
There are just no real upside to missiles anymore to warrant the negative baggage. They should just make them resolve damage instantaneous and not be vulnerable to area effect damage and defenders given a battleship with an AB will be mitigating half the damage before you hit any resistances.
Except there is no way to avoid the same class missile as what you are flying in now.
If your sig radius is large enough, and the missile catches you, it will hit for some decent damage.
So MWD will no longer save your ass anymore against a missile, it's quite the opposite now. (Unless you are outrunning torps. but that's different.)
you are talking out of your ass so stfu. if same size target just set on a AB your dmg is reduced around 30-50% depending on weapon sieze.
And if he's coming at you with an AB, you can kite him with laughable ease in your MWD-fitted missileboat.
|
Isabel Angel
Gallente NorthUnited
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 11:36:00 -
[105]
they went way too far. this is ****. i want my old missiles back.
|
Cpt Branko
Surge.
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 11:38:00 -
[106]
Originally by: Orion GUardian Yeah you lost webbing but the others lost speed hu?
Hu. Webs got nerfed by 400%.
Did you see speeds nerfed by 400%, now?
Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
Cpt Branko
Surge.
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 11:39:00 -
[107]
Originally by: Malcanis
And if he's coming at you with an AB, you can kite him with laughable ease in your MWD-fitted missileboat.
No, you need to always fit AB. Rendering someone unable to hit while you're chewing his slow AB ass is, like, cheating.
Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
Klyde
United Systems Navy Unitary Enterprises
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 11:53:00 -
[108]
I think the problem here is there are too many Raven pilots 6 months to a year old here and expect to do top dmg all the time. I think you will find most ppl complaining do not have the skills and are mostly new. Lets face it, there are too many Navy ravens belonging to pilots in newb corps 6 months old... Myself,(pve wise) fighting a BS, not much diff, cruiser size, a few more missles, frigs a lot more but thats what drone are for, yes you need to train drones too... (PVP wise) well not much to say here. Having been here for a little time i noticed caldari pilots whining about missles does nothing, if you want to use missles you have to adapt to the new systems, thats all there is to it, target painters, drones etc... I will not say i am happy with all the changes but what can ya do? Train more and move along, missles will still be your friends
|
Tippia
Caldari School of Applied Knowledge
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 13:03:00 -
[109]
Originally by: My Sister yes i have drones except drones tend to bring down the whole pocket on you - or they get blown up before you take out many frigs cos they got pocket agro. also dont forget that they have now "rebalanced" med drones against frigate sized targets. drones are not the anser to all missle vs frig problems
Interesting. I fly a ship where 50% (or more, depending on setup) of the damage output comes from drones. I don't have any of the problems you describe…
|
Khamal Jolstien
Caldari Product Number 3
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 18:38:00 -
[110]
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: My Sister yes i have drones except drones tend to bring down the whole pocket on you - or they get blown up before you take out many frigs cos they got pocket agro. also dont forget that they have now "rebalanced" med drones against frigate sized targets. drones are not the anser to all missle vs frig problems
Interesting. I fly a ship where 50% (or more, depending on setup) of the damage output comes from drones. I don't have any of the problems you describeā
That's strange. I've had the same problem. Drones can draw aggro from some groups in missions. And LOL if your caldari relying on drones for PVP.
|
|
Sinder Ohm
Demonic Corp G00DFELLAS
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 18:40:00 -
[111]
Edited by: Sinder Ohm on 12/11/2008 18:43:41 nope nerf was needed cos all of our ships are slow as **** now
edit: my vaga was hit very hard but I dont feel the need to whine about it, as said before adapt I know I will (somehow), try using a tp on your target, use light drones for frigs like they were meant to be. |
Tippia
Caldari School of Applied Knowledge
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 18:51:00 -
[112]
Originally by: Khamal Jolstien That's strange. I've had the same problem. Drones can draw aggro from some groups in missions.
Yes. Drones can draw aggro. No. It isn't a problem.
Quote: And LOL if your caldari relying on drones for PVP.
Being Caldari ≠ flying Caldari. LOL if you're that narrowminded.
|
Dee Caffari
Big S Triangle
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 18:54:00 -
[113]
Don't know about other missiles and in other situations but cruise missiles are now more or less useless in ranged PvP.
Comparing long range turret PvP BS against long range PvP BS with missiles (ie the Raven)
Negative aspects of missiles: - Missile travel time - No equivalent of tracking computers or enhancers (no, Target Painters are not analogous) - Only 1 tier of launcher per missile type
These were the pre-existing down sides and limited the cruise Raven to the niche, but useful, role of anti HAC/Recon BS when fighting at long range.
With the latest patch: - Cannot effectively hit anything other than BS moving full speed in a straight line (n.b. all turrets can do this as long as the angular velocity is not too high)
This has made the cruise raven pretty much useless as far as I can see; there is no way to slow an enemy at the distances long ranged BS often fight and there is no module you can use to increase explosion velocity.
I don't particularly mind them nerfing missiles but if they will not undo the change please release low and mid slot modules that increase explosion velocity: this would not affect many mission runners (as they would not be able to sacrifice tank to fit the modules) but would allow the raven to once again operate alongside other long range BS in PvP engagements.
Oh, in the interests of balance:
Advantages of cruise BS vs turret BS: - Generally higher raw DPS at ranges over around 150km or so (although in practice missile travel time more than negates this)
|
Shadowsword
COLSUP Tau Ceti Federation
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 18:56:00 -
[114]
Damn, I should have anticipated this whine and built a bunch of NightHawks... ------------------------------------------
|
Tippia
Caldari School of Applied Knowledge
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 18:59:00 -
[115]
Originally by: Dee Caffari Negative aspects of missiles: - Only 1 tier of launcher per missile type
Works the other way as well: no need to train a ton of prerequisites to get to the stuff you want (especially T2 stuff).
|
Kransthow
The Scope
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 19:00:00 -
[116]
*popcorn*
|
Nekopyat
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 19:07:00 -
[117]
Originally by: Goyda
yeah but a RL BS, would one shot a destroyer. :)
True, but a RL BS wouldn't be bothering to fire at destroyers anyway since they used to be screen keeping away the torpedo boats that could sink a battleship.
Imagine what a mess things would be if CCP introduced the equivalent of torpedo boats.. tiny ships that battleships can't even target that carry enough firepower to potentially sink a capital ship with only a few hits.
|
Dee Caffari
Big S Triangle
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 19:08:00 -
[118]
Originally by: Tippia Works the other way as well: no need to train a ton of prerequisites to get to the stuff you want (especially T2 stuff).
In practice the benefits from this are short lived (any half way competent missile user will want to train the supporting skills) and in the long run it is a hindrance (it is easier to cross train two types of turret than missiles and then another weapons system).
|
Nekopyat
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 19:12:00 -
[119]
Originally by: My Sister when my faction cruises do 11.2 dmg to a frig and all seven of em cant even break the tank of an average frig.... thats not cool. cant wait to come accross a dire version or an elite fed frig thats gunna be fun.
You do realize that turret BSes generally did ZERO damage to frigates? The fact that cruise missiles did anything to such small ships was unbalanced.
|
Chompy
|
Posted - 2008.11.12 19:13:00 -
[120]
Are you kidding, my Cerb still rocks, some of you people are crazy
|
|
|
|
|
Pages: 1 2 3 [4] 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 .. 22 :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |