Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 [6] 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 .. 22 :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Ranger 1
Amarr Shiva Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2008.11.13 15:45:00 -
[151]
TBH we saw the same complaints the first time the missile combat system was changed. (Actually, the same can be said for the turret combat system.)
You are going to have to accept the fact that after a major re balancing you WILL have to change your setups and tactics to achieve an acceptable result. That goes for missile use in PVP or in PVE. If they worked exactly the same, and the re balancing had not effect, then what would be the point?
Drone ARE your friend when you are in a missile battleship. Its a secondary weapons system that is there for a reason, to deal with the small fry. They serve the same function for missile battleships that they serve for turret battleships, that being to deal with the ships that your primary (large) weapon system cannot hit effectively.
Target painters also now give you a much bigger bang for your buck and if your set up doesn't include them, I would suggest trying before you get too carried away.
Mission runners, just start experimenting with tweaking your setups. Start using target painters, start gaining skill with your secondary weapons systems, start fine tuning your defenses based on having to devote a mid-slot or two for offensive purposes. It won't take long until you find a mix that works well for you, although you may have to pay more attention and change your tactics a bit. We are still in the inevitable post-patch "adjustment phase".
Bonus Trivia: Did you know that when level 4 missions came out they were intended to promote teamwork, and were "supposed" to require a small group to finish them? This didn't last long because of:
A: The outcry that there was (at that time) no safe way to distribute the status, or bonus rewards to a group. B: Pimped missile ships negated the need for more people to tag along and take a share of the loot, etc.
Perhaps we will now get back to small teams working level 4's, unless you are in a very expensive ship specifically pimped out to deal with them. I don't find this a bad thing.
|
Phenomena X
Galactic PeaceMaking Talon Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.11.13 15:58:00 -
[152]
LMAO!! Another missile thread.
Man I'm loving every single post about it! CRY! CRY! CRY SOME MORE!!
HAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAH!!!!!!
As the saying goes; You made your bed, now sleep in it.
|
Kerfira
|
Posted - 2008.11.13 16:03:00 -
[153]
Originally by: Aryen Striker I think the missiles need to be looked at .......
I don't use them and I don't do missions but just had a battle with a Raven and it wasn't a fair fight .....
Raven firing at a Devoter =
He was killed and I still had 81% shields (and I armor tank)
01:09:18 Combat Wrath Cruise Missile belonging to ****** hits you, doing 12.6 damage.
I want a good fight not point and click.
That one Raven pilot doesn't know how to fit his ship doesn't prove much..... Neut... Painter... Web.... ?
Besides: "The Battleship isn't, nor was it ever intended to be, a solo wtfpwnmobile"... A battleship is a FLEET ship, but requires support ships as it can't defend properly against smaller ships. This is how it should be! If it was otherwise, EVE would be a less varied place as the smaller ships wouldn't be used.
Originally by: CCP Wrangler EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
|
Brea Lafail
|
Posted - 2008.11.13 16:08:00 -
[154]
Hai guys! Guys! I finally found a real good torp raven PVP fit! It- no. NO! WHY!?
That is to say, I am not a fan of the recent changes.
|
Aruken Marr
Gallente Hephaestus Technologies
|
Posted - 2008.11.13 16:13:00 -
[155]
Nice to see that battleship missile sizes are balanced along with all other large weapons. Sorry but this is a balance not a nerf, as soon as you guys can see that the better. Id be happy if my large blasters could hit orbiting frigates for minimal damage i.e tracking speed.
|
Tobias Sjodin
Ore Mongers Black Hand.
|
Posted - 2008.11.13 16:13:00 -
[156]
I don't.
|
Jantix
|
Posted - 2008.11.13 16:14:00 -
[157]
Missile changes look fine to me.
Amusing how many people are just ignorant.. Maybe they should try running a mission in something other than a Raven/CNR/Golem. Then come back and complain.
|
Serinao
Caldari TYR.
|
Posted - 2008.11.13 16:15:00 -
[158]
i wish it was an balance just spent 5 minutes shooting an frigate at 11km with an target painter on it.
|
Serinao
Caldari TYR.
|
Posted - 2008.11.13 16:16:00 -
[159]
oh and it was an drake using light, asault missiles.
|
Jim Hazard
|
Posted - 2008.11.13 16:21:00 -
[160]
Originally by: Serinao i wish it was an balance just spent 5 minutes shooting an frigate at 11km with an target painter on it.
use drones???
|
|
Rawr Cristina
Caldari Naqam Exalted.
|
Posted - 2008.11.13 16:54:00 -
[161]
Most the missile changes aren't too terrible, but the way they nerfed Javelin HAMs was just OTT IMO. They basically used to be worse versions of Heavy Missiles (less dps, less alpha, speed penalties, lower explosion velocity, same range) but with 30km range now (instead of the 80 before) and absolutely horrible damage they're barely even worth carrying now
Basically imagine if Scorch didn't have it's +50% range anymore and was just Standard with ever-so-slightly more damage.
To think I'd just trained for a Sacrilege...
- Infectious - |
RInama Sent
InQuest Ascension Skunk-Works
|
Posted - 2008.11.13 17:34:00 -
[162]
Edited by: RInama Sent on 13/11/2008 17:35:49 OK i have quite a few points to make.
First I'm quite upset at most missile users why didn't you speak up during testing its way easier to change things and CCP listens better during testing.
Secondly a few reasons why the changes are to much, though not catastrophic:
Cruise have a damage reduction vs other bs after skills....??? Citadels do less than 250 DPS to a carrier...??? (this is the biggest over nerf i my opinion as capital speeds didn't change) True you can fit a TP but the range is a bit limiting I mean its basically a laser it should have a practically unlimited range in a near vacuum
On the PVE side even a golem with precision bonuses and buffed TP is talking more time, in fact twice as long to kill bc (2 volleys as opposed to 1)
A few comments on what others have said.
Originally by: Kerfira
....A battleship is a FLEET ship....,
Funny you should say this i believe this is where a raven was hit the hardest. In a fleet fight a raven can not realistically shoot BS. They are dead before the fist volley gets halfway their. The ravens job and the only one is could do was shoot cruisers. And saying to fit a TP dosent work because my fit already had 2x TP i will be fitting a third but it wont be close to making up the difference. Also all the other tools for disabling cruisers (neutralizers, webs, drones)don't work at 50+km that fleet fights take place at, at a minimum.
Originally by: Aruken Marr Nice to see that battleship missile sizes are balanced along with all other large weapons. Sorry but this is a balance not a nerf, as soon as you guys can see that the better. Id be happy if my large blasters could hit orbiting frigates for minimal damage i.e tracking speed.
This is a quite common comment and to you good sir(and others with similar thoughts) i replay this indeed would be a balance i would be in full agreement with you if missiles hit instantly. They don't so shooting BS doesn't work if their was any sort of delay for turrets (as their should be realistically) i might even agree. Evin if turrets had a standard projectile speed and took 1-2 seconds this would be balanced.
As a final comment if missiles were overpowered before why was none talking about it? If not then as i understood this missiles were being nerfed proportionally to the speed change so that should retain the same effectiveness. How can this be when i am doing less than 20% of the damage i used to do to other capitals in my phoenix?
Edit spelling 249.99 KM Locking? AF MK II |
John Duster
|
Posted - 2008.11.13 17:39:00 -
[163]
It's utter crap CCP went way to far with CRUISE Missles and here's why.
#1 Cruise missles no longer even deal full damage to other BS's. CCP specifically stated they wanted weapons to be excellent at thier own class size.
#2 L1 missions are for frigs to solo, L2 are for dessies and cruisers, L3 are for Cruisers and BC's and L4's are BC and BS... only its way harder to solo a l4 in a bs Now you almost better in a BC.
Not only is the cruise missile nerf a a nerf to cruise missiles it also nerfs caldari's ability to do l4.
oh and they are of course completely useless in pvp pushing the pvp - pve fitting gap farther apart. this was a genuine fail patch and I wont be buying an alt after all.
|
Terraform
Gallente Recreation Of The World
|
Posted - 2008.11.13 17:49:00 -
[164]
*snicker*
|
Juzo
Caldari Retribution Enterprises Hedonistic Imperative
|
Posted - 2008.11.13 17:52:00 -
[165]
Hrm it seems to me that all CCP did was make missiles and blasters suck as much as lasers and projectiles.
(it should be noted I have yet to test in game yet and I use missles and blasters on all my chars:( ) JGE
|
Mallikan
Gallente Plundering Penguins Anarchy.
|
Posted - 2008.11.13 17:54:00 -
[166]
Missiles are fine, my Drake actually performed better at killing belt rats last night then before. Maybe you should.. mm.. learn to fit?
--- For great justice. Or something.
|
Zackalwe
Gallente Thundercats RAZOR Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.11.13 18:21:00 -
[167]
Edited by: Zackalwe on 13/11/2008 18:23:05 Couple of counter points for you to think about:
Originally by: RInama Sent
Originally by: Kerfira
....A battleship is a FLEET ship....,
Funny you should say this i believe this is where a raven was hit the hardest. In a fleet fight a raven can not realistically shoot BS. They are dead before the fist volley gets halfway their. The ravens job and the only one is could do was shoot cruisers. And saying to fit a TP dosent work because my fit already had 2x TP i will be fitting a third but it wont be close to making up the difference. Also all the other tools for disabling cruisers (neutralizers, webs, drones)don't work at 50+km that fleet fights take place at, at a minimum.
Not all battleships are fleetships. The Domi isnt, the Raven isnt and neither is the Maelstrom realistically. Caldari have two fleet ships the Rokh (One of THE best fleet snipers) and the Scorpion (The only EWAR BS). Missiles were never good in fleet fights, I suggest the Rohk or Scorpion for your fleet work.
However there are plenty of cases of Ravens being utilised extremely well in general PvP. Check the old Burn Eden killboard for examples.
Originally by: RInama Sent
Originally by: Aruken Marr Nice to see that battleship missile sizes are balanced along with all other large weapons. Sorry but this is a balance not a nerf, as soon as you guys can see that the better. Id be happy if my large blasters could hit orbiting frigates for minimal damage i.e tracking speed.
This is a quite common comment and to you good sir(and others with similar thoughts) i replay this indeed would be a balance i would be in full agreement with you if missiles hit instantly. They don't so shooting BS doesn't work if their was any sort of delay for turrets (as their should be realistically) i might even agree. Evin if turrets had a standard projectile speed and took 1-2 seconds this would be balanced.
Travel time for missiles dont make any realistic difference in PvE. So in PvE they truly are balanced with respect to the other races battleships now. No other races BSs can rely on BS sized weapons to kill frigs.
Or are you trying to use a raven in a standoff fleet fight again? I am Gallente and trained up a shedload of drone skills early on. But didnt moan when I learnt that to be effective in a fleet I needed to train large rails. I just went and did it. Its the way it is. Droneships and missileships dont work in fleets, this is NOT a new thing...
Originally by: RInama Sent
As a final comment if missiles were overpowered before why was none talking about it? If not then as i understood this missiles were being nerfed proportionally to the speed change so that should retain the same effectiveness. How can this be when i am doing less than 20% of the damage i used to do to other capitals in my phoenix? Edit spelling
In PvE missiles were in fact overpowered. You must have missed all the threads. Or the fact that all professional mission-runners used CNRs. As for capitals, perhaps you have a point, if the 20 percent figure is accurate. Its possible the capital missile formula needs looking at. I would however like this verified and will be asking around in alliance this evening.
|
Turin
Caldari Eternity INC.
|
Posted - 2008.11.13 18:23:00 -
[168]
Originally by: Mallikan Missiles are fine, my Drake actually performed better at killing belt rats last night then before. Maybe you should.. mm.. learn to fit?
This is the problem though. A drake can out perform a raven, when attacking a BS sized target. My drake fit with heavy missles was able to out damage my raven fit with cruise launchers. The target was another raven.
Please explain how that is balanced. Please.
|
Haradgrim
Tyrell Corp INTERDICTION
|
Posted - 2008.11.13 19:26:00 -
[169]
Originally by: Turin
Originally by: Mallikan Missiles are fine, my Drake actually performed better at killing belt rats last night then before. Maybe you should.. mm.. learn to fit?
This is the problem though. A drake can out perform a raven, when attacking a BS sized target. My drake fit with heavy missles was able to out damage my raven fit with cruise launchers. The target was another raven.
Please explain how that is balanced. Please.
Its not, the system is more broken now than it ever was. --
Originally by: CCP Oveur Just donęt forget the reach-around.
|
Sergeant Spot
Black Eclipse Corp Band of Brothers
|
Posted - 2008.11.13 19:49:00 -
[170]
Depending which character I am using, my prefered ships for killing NPCs are the Apoc, Domi and Nighthawk, with occasional use of the Raven and Drake.
Nighthawk works fine, Apoc works fine. Have not tried the Domi recently, but I'm sure it will be fine.
Cruise/torp Raven should be better vs Battleships, otherwise fine. (a cruise/torp raven without drones should be in trouble against fast frigs....)
Play nice while you butcher each other.
|
|
Sidus
|
Posted - 2008.11.13 20:20:00 -
[171]
Well I am a pretty trained up Caldari missile hound and I just a completed the lvl 4 silence the informant mission in my Golem and I didn't notice any difference...in fact the mercenary cruisers seemed to melt a lot quicker than usual
|
ArmyOfMe
4S Corporation Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2008.11.13 20:26:00 -
[172]
they didnt go far enough
Originally by: deadmaus
Because by the time we had calmed Plague down after he heard BoB were back in the vicinity it was too late to do anything |
Elowynne
|
Posted - 2008.11.13 20:37:00 -
[173]
To be blunt about this patch...... the game wasn't broken don't fix it
The pilots who flew "ludicrous speed" ships trained long and hard to get where they did and spent a lot of money getting there too, and tbh ludicrous speed only gave you survivability at getting away from gatecamps and was useless in pvp versus heavy neuts and a rapier on your side
CCP: go back to the old pvp mechanics but keep the new content and just add web bubbles as an option for dictors and the whole thing would be sorted instead of EVERYONE having to learn the game all over again WTF !!! and costing a lot of isk to all refitting their ships and doing away with now useless rigs.
Theres a lot of your existing customer base about to leave the game, people who have spent years training up missiles skills navigation etc just to have it all thrown back in their faces.
WEB BUBBLES I TELLS YA !
regards,
elo.
|
Threv Echandari
Caldari K Directorate
|
Posted - 2008.11.13 20:40:00 -
[174]
Originally by: Sig Sour I suppose now that the patch is out, Ill let you in on the secret. PWNAGE. Ive been buying it up like mad for the last few months, and now its for sale for 20x what i paid for it. PWNAGE is now necessary.
For those of you new to using PWNAGE, search for Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron.
Of Course since all the PWNAGE is huge in price low in quantity, might I suggest the PWNT and PWND not the full 30% bounus 28 and 27% but not half million to 1.5 million a pop either (not even close)....and much more widely available.
---------------------------------------- Happiness is a Wet Pod
|
Huyai Tsukurit
Caldari First Outside Inside Last
|
Posted - 2008.11.13 21:01:00 -
[175]
hmm after 15minutes of training and a slight change in my setup I am doing the same damage as before the nerf. me thinks not so terrible as the original nerf.
|
Anig Browl
Caldari
|
Posted - 2008.11.13 21:03:00 -
[176]
Originally by: Ohmy Fugod somebody would complain about a ship setup they never ever came across.
Quite. And in my limited PvP experience, missiles kinda sucked already; almost every fight I've been in has involved incoming turret DPS, and I usually lost. I don't have massive SP, but if missiles were such pwnage as people allege, how come they weren't the first choice of many PvPers?
|
Black Scorpio
|
Posted - 2008.11.13 21:05:00 -
[177]
Originally by: Dirk Magnum Edited by: Dirk Magnum on 12/11/2008 02:45:32
I blew through a Level 4 with a Drake a little earlier. Honestly I think heavy missiles are even more effective against BC's and BS's than they used to be. Light drones seem to be doing more damage too although maybe that's my imagination.
The missiles definitely do less damage against small targets though, and the smaller targets seemed to be hitting me pretty hard for their size. But it seems like a fair trade. I don't use BS-sized missiles though except for Bombers and I haven't tested those yet.
Even more effective? Would you like to specify which parameter from the recent expansion, made them more effective? Or you can't, because you're talking out of your ass.. that's right..
I thought you're a PvP player anyway, what are you doing in a drake :P
|
Donkee Punch
|
Posted - 2008.11.13 21:07:00 -
[178]
Originally by: Waah I only care about the missile/speed nerf in as much as it affects my ability to complete missions. If I have to spend a lot more time completing level 4 missions or I have a huge increase in risk of ship lose then I will probably just go and wait for Jumpgate Evolution.
I'm already in the Beta.. it looks rather sweet, and Black Prophecy is another one that looks really sexy as well. That's 2 upcoming Space Based MMORPG's... please CCP, address these concerns before we loose a game that has been the best thing for 5 years now.
|
Black Scorpio
|
Posted - 2008.11.13 21:07:00 -
[179]
Originally by: Megan Maynard
Originally by: Veldya I have no problem with the theory behind the changes, however, they didn't take into account the negative aspects of missiles. Time it takes to do damage, their vulnerability to area effect damage, defenders and lose a lot more damage to jamming as fired salvos lose locks.
There are just no real upside to missiles anymore to warrant the negative baggage. They should just make them resolve damage instantaneous and not be vulnerable to area effect damage and defenders given a battleship with an AB will be mitigating half the damage before you hit any resistances.
Except there is no way to avoid the same class missile as what you are flying in now.
If your sig radius is large enough, and the missile catches you, it will hit for some decent damage.
So MWD will no longer save your ass anymore against a missile, it's quite the opposite now. (Unless you are outrunning torps. but that's different.)
Really? If, maybe.... what?
You mean your speed will not save you vs. the flight speed of the misile but it surely save you from the explosion velocity. What is your point?
|
Black Scorpio
|
Posted - 2008.11.13 21:12:00 -
[180]
Originally by: Vikarion
Originally by: Goyda Wanna kill a missle laden battleship, just get 4 or 5 assault frigs with after burners and you can speed tank cruise and torps. I have wicked missle skills and we tested it. I could not kill the AF. cruise hitting for 11 and torps for 7. I'm just not sure how this makes sense. like saying a REAL battleship would not be able to sink a small destroyer or frigate. sheesh. well it was bound to happen I guess. Every mmorpg I've played turned into making the game easier for new players and the carebear players, which is about the time I moved on. I didn't complain when they nerfed NOS, made sense. And now it's nearly impossible for a battleship to kill a frigate ! like saying you can't squish a bug with your boot because you're SO much bigger than it, and it has a small sig radius.
ugh... and yes I have PLENTY of cheese to go with this whine.
To kill AF:
Fit: 1 Web 1 Scram 1 Heavy Neut
Activate all on your target and saute gently. Serve to taste.
I would really like your idea applied to a 17-20km zooming AF without an AB or anything but speed mods.. that deal damage not related to cap, read projectile or turrets.. mhm.. it may possibly not need to even rep your damage..
in any case that will be long enough before the big boys arrive to finish you off and your smart ploy...
|
|
|
|
|
Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 [6] 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 .. 22 :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |