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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
AlleyKat
The Unwanted.
424
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Posted - 2012.12.14 00:48:00 -
[211] - Quote
Sorry you have never had a 'like' from me. I have corrected this oversight for you now.
:) GÇ£You go into combat, and itGÇÖs NOT going to be WagnerGǪindustrial techno or really hard drum and bassGÇ¥ Reynir Hardarson, founding member of CCP Games, 2002. |
Cave Lord
Workers' Compensation Sukyoko-Moussa Ltd.
18
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Posted - 2012.12.14 09:40:00 -
[212] - Quote
Hey guys,
As suggested by Selvin, I downloaded VS Express for Desktop (Free, but requires registration to get a key). Downloaded the source code from here: http://black2json.codeplex.com
Then tried to compile. Got an error "Unable to read manifest 'Properties\app.manifest'. (It can't read it because it doesn't exist. Not sure why it's referencing a file that doesn't exist..) But it spit out what appears to be a functional executable anyway, which was located in: (project folder)\obj\x86\Debug\Black2Json.exe
I successfully convert res/dx9/model/ship/talocan/frigate/ta_f1.black This was not possible with the official executable, I had to compile myself. Also, who knows what's causing the build to officially fail - I know next to nothing about VS.
...just wanted to share a (partial) success! |
AzAkiR NaLDa
Real Simple Construction Yulai Federation
7
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Posted - 2012.12.14 10:11:00 -
[213] - Quote
Sure as hell you deserve a like for this selvin. Great work again. At least I can now continue in doing my stuff. I will do a compile later and if no one made a working executable yet i will share it here |
AzAkiR NaLDa
Real Simple Construction Yulai Federation
7
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Posted - 2012.12.15 00:29:00 -
[214] - Quote
hmm i did manage to pull some data and convert a black file for the venture.
this is what came out.
http://imageshack.us/a/img18/9876/venturetest.jpg
i will upload the propper render tomorrow as for some reason the submask isnt correct. or not propperly used for the main body |
AzAkiR NaLDa
Real Simple Construction Yulai Federation
7
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Posted - 2012.12.15 13:11:00 -
[215] - Quote
okay here you have it as promissed the propper version of the venture
http://imageshack.us/a/img685/7775/venturetest02.jpg |
Andares Sol
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
11
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Posted - 2012.12.15 17:20:00 -
[216] - Quote
Sorry i didn't think it's a good idea to do a release on the day CCP puts the changed format on TQ and things stop working. Something along the lines of "Here great new release, and by the way it doesn't work anymore!" didn't seem to be such a grand idea *grin*.
OK, but as it looks like various people have different backups of different stages of Black files, i can do one of course. The latest change i got from Selvin on 4th of December is checked in, so i'll make a release of that one.
Ah yes and the Roc Wieler change to output a formatted Json is also in. Thanks!
Bests, Andares Sol
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AzAkiR NaLDa
Real Simple Construction Yulai Federation
7
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Posted - 2012.12.17 18:51:00 -
[217] - Quote
Great work as always. Thanks for the update selvin, Anderes and roc. |
Valeria Ghost
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
2
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Posted - 2012.12.24 15:01:00 -
[218] - Quote
great work with the TriExporter and the Black2Json Tool. They've been a great help to get some models into maya. I'm pretty new to this but thanks to everything posted around here and those tools i've been able to get the models including colors right. but when it comes to reflections i just cant figure out how to interpret the values given in the black/json files...
Has anyone figured out yet how the specular factors, specular curve, reflectivity factors or fresnel factors are supposed to be used? I'm using maya for my renders and while its been pretty easy to get the models, colors and lights correct, i just cant figure out how the hell the specular and reflectivity values have to be used. i havent found any materials that would have 4 values at specularity, reflection or fresnel. can anyone give me a hint as to how set those up? currently i'm trying to get the brutix right and tried multiple things already. while some have worked fairly well for the brutix (t1 version), every time i try them with the t2 version (astarte right now), it just doesnt look right at all. the specularity and reflections dont look like they should... i'd really appreciate some help. I know many use blender or cinema 4d and if you dont use maya i'd still be interested in how you guys implemented the specularity and reflection in the program you use, it still might give me some clues to how to get it right in maya.
thanks in advance, i hope some of you guys still check this thread every now and then :D |
AzAkiR NaLDa
Real Simple Construction Yulai Federation
7
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Posted - 2012.12.24 16:53:00 -
[219] - Quote
i have no experience with maya so dont blame me if i tell something wrong.
but what i do on my models is i add the specular curve to specular settings. even though i am playing with a new engine right now which dont actually uses specular it can be done.
main key point is that you add the specularity map into the specular level slot.
then you adjust the glossiness to your likings to create some nice effects on to it.
not all values of the json/black file can be used unless you are working directx shaders which can be done in maya i believe.
but in max this is not a option because it doesnt have the build in shader support like maya does. |
Valeria Ghost
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
2
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Posted - 2012.12.25 17:48:00 -
[220] - Quote
my main problem is that i dont know how to add a specular curve to any of the maya shaders i have. From the imported ".fx" file i at least know that the specular curve is an RGB color (which i still find quite odd since the values for the specularcurve are a lot higher than 1.0, which is the RGB range eve uses in the json files..) at least if the import worked correctly. unfortunately the shader doesnt seem to work when i apply it to the model, which is why i'm using normal maya materials instead. so i suppose i need an option in my shader where i can set a color or map for the specular settings. The problem is the only option that supports this is the "specular color" which i currently use for the specularmap of the pgs file.
But when i just multiply the specularmap with the overbright colors of the specular curve for each mask, i just end up with a green and yellow brutix... I'm very new when it comes to reflections and specular and i don't know how i could get the specular curve into the shader.
currently i'm using a phong material, so the only other option for the specular settings is "cosine power" which is just a number. Another option would be Phong E which supports specular color, whiteness (can be a map), roughness and highlight size. but when i tried using the specular curve as whiteness i just get really bright green and yellow highlights on the ship caused by the overbright colors when i for example use "80, 250, 0.6" of the mask specular curve as the corresponding RGB values (range 0 to 1) for the whiteness values of the mask...
i just have no idea how to handle the values of the specular curve of the json files (same goes for the reflection values but maybe that'll get clearer when i understand what this "specular curve" settings are). Unfortunately i couldnt find any shader with "specular curve"...
what exactly is a specular curve in max (or the program you use) and which values can be set? am i right that those values in the json file have to be used to get an RGB color for each mask (where the "normal" range of the rgb values is 0 to 1) or how do these values translate into something useful? |
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AlleyKat
The Unwanted.
523
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Posted - 2012.12.25 18:38:00 -
[221] - Quote
They're linear values. No idea how maya works but I'm guessing you'll need to flick a switch to enable linear workflow so you can use exactly the settings of the black files.
Applying the strength / power of the specular to each of the channels is time consuming, I'd recommend using best judgement and play, because you'll never ever be able to completely replicate what you see online, because you are missing the settings of the light source generated by the rendering engine.
This is the same for the reflections. GÇ£You go into combat, and itGÇÖs NOT going to be WagnerGǪindustrial techno or really hard drum and bassGÇ¥ Reynir Hardarson, founding member of CCP Games, 2002. |
AzAkiR NaLDa
Real Simple Construction Yulai Federation
14
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Posted - 2012.12.25 22:17:00 -
[222] - Quote
Exactly what is said above. the color values and specular values are really hard to find out where to place them if you have never done it before.
The reason why it is hard to get a 1 to 1 copy of the game models is exactly the engine lightprojection reflection calculations. And that can all be found in the shader files. Fact remains it is extremely hard. After Christmas I'll post picture of a jaguar and a Armageddon done with my latest engine and custom written material for 3ds max. I'll also post screenshots of the ingame make del for reference to actually see how close I came to the 1 to 1 copy.
So just play around with settings and sliders. And looking at screenshots from different angles. And work on it until you are happy. You are the artist. When you are happy with it that is all that counts.
For the specular keep it in mind that specularity only specifiers what area reflects more then the other so it has no color its only greyscale just like the specular map in the pgs files. The color it reflects is done by adjusting the reflection layer color. |
AzAkiR NaLDa
Real Simple Construction Yulai Federation
14
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Posted - 2012.12.29 15:55:00 -
[223] - Quote
okay a bit on the late side but better late then never.
as promised here is a screenshot of my latest version of the armageddon. Ingame: http://img13.imageshack.us/img13/2676/20121227193713.jpg
3ds max with vray http://imageshack.us/a/img11/8059/geddontest01.jpg
unfortunatly im not able to find out exactly what is going with the T2 layering for the models so no jaguar yet but that will be posted once i am done with it.
in the above screenshot of the armageddon it is really hard to see a reflection at all and this is due to the fact that vray uses a more realistic way of shading/reflecting.
i loaded up the specular map in the highlight slots and this was the end result which i personally really like. it gives a more metal like look and feel to the material and not so much chrome like as you would get with our previous attempts using mental ray. |
Nathan WAKE
Osiris Entreprises OSE Fondation
18
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Posted - 2012.12.30 12:26:00 -
[224] - Quote
Wow !! After nearly a year off, I'm back to EvE and I am amazed by the progress you guys have made.
I thought I'd show some of my work, even if not the same level as yours.
Kestrel - Clay Render
Kestrel - Diffuse Only
Kestrel - Diffuse + Lights
Kestrel - HDRI lightning
This last one is not well balanced on spec/reflection, I'll have to rework on it.
Keep up the good work, I have a lot to read to catch up with you
Cheers
Nathan "I'm a very good housekeeper. Each time I get a divorce, I keep the house"
Zaza Gabor |
Valeria Ghost
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
6
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Posted - 2012.12.31 12:34:00 -
[225] - Quote
thanks a lot for all the helpful posts. I have tried a few more things but i just can't get the astarte right. My Brutix on the other hand is pretty close now, the specular and reflections on the 3 silver parts on the side still need some work but the rest is close now. Thanks again for all your help. Maybe some day i'll figure out how to get the shader network for the specular and reflections right and get a 'correct' astarte ;D
Here is my current version of the brutix: http://img266.imageshack.us/img266/1862/brutix.jpg |
AzAkiR NaLDa
Real Simple Construction Yulai Federation
14
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Posted - 2012.12.31 14:34:00 -
[226] - Quote
There is something strange with the t2 that I can't lay my finger on yet. Once I figured out how the layers are stacked I'll let it know. |
Valeria Ghost
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
9
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Posted - 2013.01.01 18:19:00 -
[227] - Quote
The problem is that they apply some "oilfilm" effect to their ships which i believe then uses the specular curve values to color it. I think those values are HSV and not RGB like the rest, at least when i interpreted them as HSV values for the specular curve on a blinn it resulted in colors that look a lot like that specular/oilfilm on top of the "standard" reflections (at least for the brutix and astarte). Unfortunately I havent found a way to get such a layer on top of my shader yet...
Anyways i made some progress with the reflections today and although the oilfilm/specular curve is still missing the result is pretty nice now. With my current setup i only use the color values as well as the reflection and fresnel factors of the .black files. Last thing to figure out is how to create an oilfilm/specular layer which uses the specular curve and specular factors.
Here are comparison shots with my current shader for the astarte and brutix (ingame model at the top, my render in the lower half):
http://img707.imageshack.us/img707/8269/brutixvergleich.jpg
http://img145.imageshack.us/img145/1373/astartevergleich.jpg |
AzAkiR NaLDa
Real Simple Construction Yulai Federation
14
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Posted - 2013.01.01 22:39:00 -
[228] - Quote
try to play a bit with the output of the mask and submask layers.
Also the reason why I don't use specular values is that the gray render engine doesn't support them. This is due to the realism factor in there. All I do for my reflections is loadup the reflection color layers. Then adjust the color levels. And then I load the specular map in the highlights. Set my reflection levels so it reflects like a metal would reflect. This gives it a slightly more real feel to it. I'll show some progress tomorrow. |
AzAkiR NaLDa
Real Simple Construction Yulai Federation
14
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Posted - 2013.01.02 19:34:00 -
[229] - Quote
my version of the astarte. a hell of a lot more detail. but still playing with the right settings for the layers
but as you can see no oilfilm effect though
http://imageshack.us/a/img18/4314/astartelayers01.jpg
so not entirly happy with it yet but getting there |
Selvin
Galactic Fighters Organization
3
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Posted - 2013.01.03 09:23:00 -
[230] - Quote
in game we don't have "oilfilm effect" on astrate(tripleglowv3.fx) ... it is environment mapping ... but in tripleglowv3.fx you have 2 evnmaps .... first should be xx_cube.dds and second one should be xx_cube_blur.dds ...
GBc1_T2a_Duvolle.black from my simple render engine(which using orginal eve shaders) |
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AzAkiR NaLDa
Real Simple Construction Yulai Federation
14
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Posted - 2013.01.03 10:37:00 -
[231] - Quote
How did you get that effect selvin? Could you explain how you did it? |
Selvin
Galactic Fighters Organization
3
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Posted - 2013.01.03 13:11:00 -
[232] - Quote
well, it's my program to render eve models written in C# .... it using hlsl shaders from eve resources(stuff files) , all settings are taken from black files(using black2json code) ... anyway it will not help you with rendering in programs like Blender ...
for blender take this cube and use it as EnvMap in material editor ... if you play with the settings you'll and with smthng like this and here you have sample blender file ... |
AzAkiR NaLDa
Real Simple Construction Yulai Federation
14
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Posted - 2013.01.03 13:58:00 -
[233] - Quote
Okay so your using a DirectX shader program to display it.
That is the complete opposite of max, blender or Maya. But I think it will help recreate most of the effect. I'll play around with it once done with work. I'll recreate the cubes and see how that works out.
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Selvin
Galactic Fighters Organization
3
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Posted - 2013.01.03 14:41:00 -
[234] - Quote
easier to analyze shaders are glsl from Ship Viewer(open it with browser with webgl support fx.: chrome) check fx this shader tripleglowv3.fx (you can use http://jsbeautifier.org/ to make shader code readable and here you have uniforms and other vars ...
i even managed to run those shaders on android device
Link1 Link2 Link3 Link4 |
Sarmatiko
845
|
Posted - 2013.01.03 21:26:00 -
[235] - Quote
Selvin wrote:EDIT2: and here is the program which i use to render models .... USAGE (from commend line): SlimDXTest.exe black_filename_lowercase_with_ext nebula "eve_full_path_without_last_backslash" defaults are: SlimDXTest.exe gbc1_t2a_duvolle.black c16 D:\Games\ccp\eve !!!! so if you don't have eve here=>"D:\Games\ccp\eve" it will not work sample usage: SlimDXTest.exe oref1_t1.black g04 "C:\program files\ccp\eve" SlimDXTest.exe gde1_t1.black g04 "C:\program files\.ccp\eve"
Thanks for another beautiful program, Selvin! I find it extremely useful for the ability to preview new models from test clients, where we don't have any possibility to login and check actual ingame look.
But I have a question. Source code for this program that you posted in comments to test video is probably outdated? I tried to play with the code (change scene rotation to strict horizontal 360 degree rotation instead of current "bouncing" and custom scene resolution) but cant get through System.NullReferenceException on compiled runtime (even on clean builds with/without command line parameters). Do you have any intentions to post latest sources later somewhere?
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Selvin
Galactic Fighters Organization
5
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Posted - 2013.01.04 06:45:00 -
[236] - Quote
ok now zip contains source too ... exe+src |
Mardante Soliest
Realm of the Forgotten
3
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Posted - 2013.01.04 13:43:00 -
[237] - Quote
Does anny of you have an up to date tutorial for us "not so smart but willing to play with 3DS Max to get some nice custom EvE renders" peeps? I read that some of you were bzzy making one. |
AlleyKat
The Unwanted.
812
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Posted - 2013.01.05 11:15:00 -
[238] - Quote
Mardante Soliest wrote:Does any of you have an up to date tutorial for us "not so smart but willing to play with 3DS Max to get some nice custom EvE renders" peeps? I read that some of you were busy making one.
About a year ago someone put up their texture material tree for all of the shaders. It was impressive.
AK GÇ£You go into combat, and itGÇÖs NOT going to be WagnerGǪindustrial techno or really hard drum and bassGÇ¥ Reynir Hardarson, founding member of CCP Games, 2002. |
Nathan WAKE
Astromechanica Maxima Astromechanica Federatis
18
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Posted - 2013.01.06 11:55:00 -
[239] - Quote
Hi all,
Correct me if I'm wrong, it's more a question I'm asking than something I'm asserting.
Normal maps are produced based on the high definition model of a 3D object. This is used in order to lower the resolution (number of polygons the 3D engine will have to generate) of the mesh used in a game (for example), but keeping the detail high by using the normal map to compensate the "low res" 3D model. Am I right at this point ?
From there, if we want to use the normal map, we should either :
- find the normal map in the DDS files (which is mostly looking blue with red and green shades
- find 3 normal channels in the DDS files, x, y and z
But according to the DDS files organisation chart, we only find 2 ,normal channels, x and y. And the normal texture map DDS file is green, combining red channel which is empty, green channel which contains the normal x and blue which is also empty.
If we add the alpha channel, which contains the normal y infos, we obtain a mostly red/orange image.
Are we not lacking a normal z information here ?
I've tried using the RGB of this DDS file as normal info, but I'm not happy with the result. I've tried combining the normal x with the normal y channels, but I'm not happier with the result.
Using green channel or alpha channel separately gives some kind of bump result, but not that good in my opinion.
What do you guys use ?
Cheers
Nathan "I'm a very good housekeeper. Each time I get a divorce, I keep the house"
Zaza Gabor |
AzAkiR NaLDa
Real Simple Construction Yulai Federation
14
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Posted - 2013.01.06 18:28:00 -
[240] - Quote
You need to move the channels around :
Green channel goes into red Alpha channel goes into green
Blue channel needs to be white. This gives you the normal map |
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