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Adunh Slavy
Ammatar Trade Syndicate
538
|
Posted - 2012.04.07 18:07:00 -
[1] - Quote
Ok Boys and Girls, and other assorted types,
We all know mining is boring as can be, this is the biggest draw back of the change to Eve's economic landscape. I went out and mined myself for the first time in quite a while to familiarize myself with it, a few moments later I woke up. Driving players crazy with tears of boredom isn't good. So what are the suggestions out there? Now before you get all excited about spamming the forums with your possibly wonderful or horrible ideas, keep a few basic rules in mind:
1) Never trust the client. 2) Attempt to not increase network traffic too much. 3) Provide for both active and not active methods. Not active would be like current mining. Not active yields less, and active yields more. 4) Active mode should be difficult if not impossible to bot, but not break rules one or two and not be a cumbersome chore for players.
Now don't forget Eve's backend is multi-tiered, there is no reason to not shuffle off the active mode mining portion to another service that then contacts the solar system node from time to time. So, ideas can be CPU intensive, though preferably not network intensive, a quandary I know.
Have at it ...
P.S. If the mods want to shuffle this off to F&I to die a slow death, ok. But it does seem germane to the hot topic of discussion these days. |
Toshiroma McDiesel
Lupus Draconis Dragehund
24
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Posted - 2012.04.07 18:15:00 -
[2] - Quote
The only problem with the idea of making mining "More Fun" is that anything that would make it More Fun (usually suggested clicky games) would also be more distracting from all that is going on around you, which would make a gankers job easier. The Valdspar is Holy, it must be allowed to float free. Free of lesser rocks that try to clutter it's Holy Path though the Heavens. |
Aqriue
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
522
|
Posted - 2012.04.07 18:17:00 -
[3] - Quote
Stop mining ?
Good suggestion. I nominate it, any seconds?
I second my own suggestion.
Awesome, movement carries.
/sarcasmn
Nerfing the hulks already pathetic tank is a better solution. Make it so a Velator can pop a hulk and drive more miners away.
Stupid profession, stupid crappy ship (wrap a condom around your manhood, stick it in a bear trap. Yep, it gets crushed just as easily as a hulk to a couple of destroyers and your manhood might be able to be reattached...not so much when recovering from an easy to destroy ship). Don't know why anyone would bother wasting their time for a hulk in its current format. |
Nylith Empyreal
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
81
|
Posted - 2012.04.07 18:25:00 -
[4] - Quote
Considering afk mining is it's own passive action, and I know they're trying to get rid of passive income. Honestly I don't know what they could do : / Clicking a module to continue an 'active' mining staring at some light show on a fixed rock is going to drive people into insanity. Honestly I think they should just change it into a massive fireworks, objective; destroy as many asteroids you can and scoop up the remnants, it'll be like salvaging, but at least get to make big explosions first. -á |
Kestrix
UV Heavy Industries
7
|
Posted - 2012.04.07 18:46:00 -
[5] - Quote
Try doing the washing up? hoovering? tidying up? Playing another game with eve in the background? These are all things you can do whilst mining... I'm sure you can find more if you put your mind to it. |
Adunh Slavy
Ammatar Trade Syndicate
538
|
Posted - 2012.04.07 18:47:00 -
[6] - Quote
Nylith Empyreal wrote:Considering afk mining is it's own passive action, and I know they're trying to get rid of passive income. Honestly I don't know what they could do : / Clicking a module to continue an 'active' mining staring at some light show on a fixed rock is going to drive people into insanity.
Yep, also true, the active mode shouldn't be something god awful repetitive and boring as well. Make it too cumbersome and people will hate it. Maybe something once every 30 seconds that needs to be adjusted would be good, but "mining tetris" or some such thing would be a bit much. |
Adunh Slavy
Ammatar Trade Syndicate
538
|
Posted - 2012.04.07 18:48:00 -
[7] - Quote
Toshiroma McDiesel wrote:The only problem with the idea of making mining "More Fun" is that anything that would make it More Fun (usually suggested clicky games) would also be more distracting from all that is going on around you, which would make a gankers job easier.
Yep, which is why keeping the current method around isn't a bad idea. Even becomes more important in low sec and null. |
Herping yourDerp
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
473
|
Posted - 2012.04.07 19:02:00 -
[8] - Quote
how about instead of the current mining technique we have an extremely large field, we then destroy the roid, with chances of it dropping loot.. then collect it.
let any weapon kill roids but it reduces the ore drop chance this means instead of click mine button wait 10 mins or w.e
you warp to the belt, kill the roids, orcas tractor in the actual drops many roids will have nothing but others have lots. ect..
just a thought. |
Grey Stormshadow
draketrain Confederation of xXPIZZAXx
1079
|
Posted - 2012.04.07 19:04:00 -
[9] - Quote
To be honest they could provide way to automatically mine (=ingame mining bot), but the yield should be 20-30 times slower than active mining. This could be done by providing some kind of mining drone container which can be anchored to belt. Player would need to haul the ore and relocate the device when it is full/belt is depleted. The device should be killable during wardecs and even the belt rats could attack it and the mining drones unless there are some combat drones remaining to protect it. No more than 24h yield should ever fit to the cargo hold of those thing. There should not be limitation how many of those can be anchored to belt, but in hisec concord should bill (rather high) daily fee from each anchored - mining or not. In lowsec and nullsec those would be free to kill and dead in no time without active player protection as the heavier belt rats would do their thing. In other words these would be mainly used in hisec only for most common ores.
Normal active mining with hulks and such should give enough yield to make it worth while even you mine only 4-5 hours in a week.
Dunno if this makes any sense, but in long term I would want to see this or some similar other semi passive mining solution as continuous daily active mining will get dull after a while.
Get |
J3ssica Alba
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
303
|
Posted - 2012.04.07 19:07:00 -
[10] - Quote
As a newbie in a corp I helped in some mining ops and since I didn't have any mining skills i was tasked to carry the minerals from the cans near the hulks/orca back to station with my itty 3 (at the time). Except the station was in the next system. 5 hours of warping/jumping/warping/docking/undocking/warping/jumping was .. quite .. interesting .. now after remembering that I need to go kill something. To the whiners :-áCCP Soundwave "Incursions are not a big issue in terms of isk globally" CCP Recurve "However, Incursions are not the biggest ISK faucet, bounties are"
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Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
511
|
Posted - 2012.04.07 19:10:00 -
[11] - Quote
I find mining quite fun. Today I had 2 alts doing it, while on my main I teached a new guy how to gank all the other miners around and then paid him 10 catalysts.
It was fireworks for hours and local was quite active.
Needless to say, I sell Exhumers, catalysts and Tornados and arties in the nearby hub. Auditing | Collateral holding and insurance | Consulting | PLEX for Good Charity
Twitter channel |
Zircon Dasher
133
|
Posted - 2012.04.07 19:34:00 -
[12] - Quote
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:I find mining quite fun. Today I had 2 alts doing it, while on my main I teached a new guy how to gank all the other miners around and then paid him 10 catalysts.
It was fireworks for hours and local was quite active.
Needless to say, I sell Exhumers, catalysts and Tornados and arties in the nearby hub.
So in other words you find teaching someone how to gank fun and, since mining on 2 accounts takes such little attention, you made some money on the side?
just sayin' |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
414
|
Posted - 2012.04.07 20:20:00 -
[13] - Quote
Zircon Dasher wrote:Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:I find mining quite fun. Today I had 2 alts doing it, while on my main I teached a new guy how to gank all the other miners around and then paid him 10 catalysts.
It was fireworks for hours and local was quite active.
Needless to say, I sell Exhumers, catalysts and Tornados and arties in the nearby hub. So in other words you find teaching someone how to gank fun and, since mining on 2 accounts takes such little attention, you made some money on the side? just sayin' It's player vs player.
The others didn't get the sweet, sweet veldspar. Take all the tech Build all the titans Drop all the POSes
Bees incoming, nerf ERRYTHING ERRYDAY |
Aranakas
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
269
|
Posted - 2012.04.07 20:29:00 -
[14] - Quote
My fix for mining:
-Make it so that every so often, an asteroid will explode, and you have to dodge the debris. Then the asteroids set off a chain reaction and you have to dodge all sorts of asteroids in a bullet hell environment. Rock music will come on during these events and if you succeed, massive amounts of metal will be injected directly into your cargo hold.
Of course, mining ships would need to be made a lot faster and more agile for this to work. |
Jon Taggart
State War Academy Caldari State
15
|
Posted - 2012.04.07 20:31:00 -
[15] - Quote
Kestrix wrote:Try doing the washing up? hoovering? tidying up? Playing another game with eve in the background? These are all things you can do whilst mining... I'm sure you can find more if you put your mind to it.
Mining. The only profession that encourages you to not actively play the game to do it. |
Nylith Empyreal
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
82
|
Posted - 2012.04.07 20:35:00 -
[16] - Quote
Aranakas wrote:My fix for mining:
-Make it so that every so often, an asteroid will explode, and you have to dodge the debris. Then the asteroids set off a chain reaction and you have to dodge all sorts of asteroids in a bullet hell environment. Rock music will come on during these events and if you succeed, massive amounts of metal will be injected directly into your cargo hold.
Of course, mining ships would need to be made a lot faster and more agile for this to work.
Should give it various mode settings depending on how rare the ore is, it'll be like audio surf. -á |
Richard Hammond II
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
154
|
Posted - 2012.04.07 20:38:00 -
[17] - Quote
Aqriue wrote:Stop mining ?
Good suggestion. I nominate it, any seconds?
I second my own suggestion.
Awesome, movement carries.
Brilliant idea, lets make it so only NPCs mine.
Goons; infiltration at its best - first bob... now ccp itself. They dont realize you guys dot take this as "just a game". Bring it down guys, we're rooting for you. |
Culmen
Culmenation
1
|
Posted - 2012.04.07 20:45:00 -
[18] - Quote
You could copy star trek online Just the laser minigame not the hopping around asteroids
or you could basically have a captcha. A symbol behind some static, miner has to identify. techno babble explanation is that it's adjusting the frequency harmonics to the right calibration.
Or a randomized collection of minigames,
Trouble is, that mining is done on an industrial scale, and mini-game no matter how interesting is going to get boring quickly.
But then again Bejeweled has made more money than Eve ever did, so what do i know. |
Jon Taggart
State War Academy Caldari State
15
|
Posted - 2012.04.07 20:59:00 -
[19] - Quote
Culmen wrote:But then again Bejeweled has made more money than Eve ever did, so what do i know.
Oh man, if EVE mining was like Bejeweled 3: Diamond Mine I would never sleep. |
Kestrix
UV Heavy Industries
7
|
Posted - 2012.04.07 21:01:00 -
[20] - Quote
If you want to fix mining, make it more invloved, so you have to work at it to get the best results. Atm I warp to a belt lock onto a roid and activate the mining lasers and atl tab out of eve.
Make all the roids look the same so you can't visually tell them apart. Expand on the ore scanners by making us scan each roid to find out whats in it. Change the roids so that they all contain a % of every ore type and then let us choose the ore type we want to mine from the roid and by mining this type we lose all the other ore types in the roid as the mining laser tears the roid apart. This will allow CCP to add a chance that any roid scanned might hold a higher % of a rare ore type, a bit like in a Mission and getting a faction rat. To top it off make us have to manualy ajust the mining laser calibration in order to keep the ore extraction at 100% efficiency. Go afk or not pay atttention the mining laser loses efficiency and you end up with less ore than you could of got.
Hows that idea? |
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Mirima Thurander
Total Annihilation. G00DFELLAS
272
|
Posted - 2012.04.07 21:16:00 -
[21] - Quote
Nylith Empyreal wrote:Considering afk mining is it's own passive action, and I know they're trying to get rid of passive income. Honestly I don't know what they could do : / Clicking a module to continue an 'active' mining staring at some light show on a fixed rock is going to drive people into insanity. Honestly I think they should just change it into a massive fireworks display. Objective; destroy as many asteroids you can and scoop up the remnants with a mining lazer potentially yielding rarer / more condensed ores and perhaps some weird elements as well. Just turn the belt into rubble and suck up the remnants with the current mining lasers. Hell if they time it and place the bombs right in micro fashion they can get a good chain reaction, that might actually yeild more and cost less explosives. And the bigger the asteroid the more TNT we'll use I tell you now, if you give us an asteroid belt with millions apon millions of asteroids and hte ability with enough careful planning to light the whole thing up in one big ass chain reaction it'll be the next funnest thing in eve below PVP
this sounds fun blowing stuff up is fun
I love the the smell of victory in the morning. It smells like... Blood, vomit and burning flesh.
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Zircon Dasher
133
|
Posted - 2012.04.07 21:29:00 -
[22] - Quote
I wonder if the no-bot prerequisite to making any change to mining (or missions/ratting/anoms for that matter) is not unnecessarily complicating issues. A 50% improvement is still 50% better than things are today, even though it misses the "perfect" mark by a wide margin.
I also wonder if simple changes to cycle times and roid "size" do not help substantially. At least in regards to keeping people awake lol.
Right now, mining is like running missions in an FoF missle boat or afk drone boat. Once a few things are in place, you do not have to interact much. Some people like things this way (see all the Rattler pilots/tengu pilots running missions for further evidence), but most people who enjoy shooting red crosses would gouge thier eyes out if they were forced to do so in this manner.
Imagine a situation where: 1) cycle time on lasers = cycle time of guns/missles 2) the amount of ore contained in roids is decreased so that 1-15 cycles of max skill/implanted/boosted would pop the roid 3) a new module/script was added that allowed for mining multiple targeted roids, but at the cost of total m3/cycle and a HUGE increase in cycle time.
This would allow those who wish to afk thier mining to do so, like an afk Domi or FoF raven/tengu for shooting red crosses, but it would be at the expense of efficiency. Additionally, it would make it so that 1 player running 12 accounts was no longer equivalent to 12 players running 1 account each.
Just some prelim thoughts vOv |
Adunh Slavy
Ammatar Trade Syndicate
539
|
Posted - 2012.04.07 21:31:00 -
[23] - Quote
Some interesting ideas, some directions I'd not considered too. Keep em comming. :) |
Helicity Boson
Immortalis Inc. Shadow Cartel
266
|
Posted - 2012.04.07 21:34:00 -
[24] - Quote
I'm fixing the boredom of mining right now. |
bbb2020
Carebears with Attitude
0
|
Posted - 2012.04.07 22:36:00 -
[25] - Quote
And I bet a spaceship, that noone of you ever mine in eve.
Funny how everyone that wants to change mining in eve don't do it themself.
Anyway: Read this blog and learn something new and in the light of eve being a space simulator, fundamentally true.
http://www.g4tv.com/thefeed/blog/post/722262/eve-online-is-boring-on-purpose/
Edit: Here's the article from PC Gamer the blogpost above is based upon: http://www.pcgamer.com/2012/03/29/why-eve-online-is-the-best-hangover-game-and-the-upcoming-hazing-of-dust-players/ |
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
512
|
Posted - 2012.04.07 22:41:00 -
[26] - Quote
Nope, I or my alts have done a bit of everything except scamming and including mining in hi, low and 0.0 sec. Auditing | Collateral holding and insurance | Consulting | PLEX for Good Charity
Twitter channel |
Pop Bear
12
|
Posted - 2012.04.07 22:48:00 -
[27] - Quote
Why fix mining? Its working just fine, the sheep, jingers and castouts of society have someting to call their own! WIN IMO... |
Danfen Fenix
Vita Aequitas Veritas The Paganism Alliance
52
|
Posted - 2012.04.07 22:52:00 -
[28] - Quote
IMO, they should base it off the PI model.
Have the player scan the asteroid for deposits of the mineral, and then select an area on the asteroid to mine (with varying sizes of deposits on the asteroid). Every now and then, the miner shuts down/deposit depletes, and they have to resurvey. Only, instead of resurveying every few days, its done every few minutes?
The main thing that would have to be taken in to consideration with this is how to design the surveying section so you can still see whats going on around you & see if ships warp in. Currently, the planetary view stops you from pretty much interacting with your surroundings while doing it, but this isn't a problem with PI as it's usually done from a safe place such as POS or station
I wonder if the engine would be capable of just zooming in on the 'roid and showing the deposits on it without hindering the view of the overview or surrounding space. |
Spurty
D00M. Northern Coalition.
229
|
Posted - 2012.04.07 22:53:00 -
[29] - Quote
Make the modules you fit matter with your yeild / discovery.
Produce kill mail for the roid
Do what that guy said anoint having to scan all rocks as who knows what's inside!
Also lower all cycles. 5 minute cycle? What on earth ? I think I missed a chapter in game development theory where you create a mechanic requiring players to immediately stop playing your game and go play something else.
---- CONCORD arrested two n00bs yesterday, one was drinking battery acid, the other was eating fireworks. They charged one and let the other one off. |
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat Working Stiffs
590
|
Posted - 2012.04.07 23:00:00 -
[30] - Quote
Since this appears to be a troll and filled with mining haters, I'll play along: make all asteroid belts the same as in The Blockade.
However if there is any seriousness in this thread: * Increase the EHP of all Exhumers significantly (>200m ships shouldn't be gankable by one month throw-away accounts with catalysts). * Increase the drone bay and drone bandwidth of all Exhumers. * Allow mining lasers to damage ships. * Make a mining ship that only uses drones. * Make a T3 ship that is bonused for gas harvesting. |
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Max Essen
Bison Industrial Inc Thundering Herd
7
|
Posted - 2012.04.07 23:02:00 -
[31] - Quote
Very obvious there are few, if any, industrialist posting in this thread. Bottom line, nothing is wrong with mining as it is. Boring, only if you do it alone ... it is one of the most social of events otherwise. Yes, you are waiting for your lasers to cycle but, chatting with friends, watching local and, in some cases, running a hauler half to death.
And now, with more bots and RMT clowns being banned, it is getting more profitable for the real miners and not the folk who just want to jump on it as the FOTM then whine about it being boring. |
Kyle Yanowski
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
46
|
Posted - 2012.04.07 23:05:00 -
[32] - Quote
I am sure this has been suggested somewhere down the line, however, worth repeating. Simple fix for mining that would keep the process interesting, and rewarding, is to implement the " toasty" mechanic.
For the old dogs out there, mortal combat 2 had this mechanic.... During a match in MK2, there was a random chance that a character would pop out on the screen and scream "toasty". If a player was quick enough, they could hit the player start button, and be rewarded with a rare fight with a hidden character.
This mechanic could be added to mining. For instance, during a mining cycle, an alarm can blare, and if the miner is quick enough ( and at the keyboard ) a button could be pushed to accept an archeological reward.
Thoughts? |
Zircon Dasher
133
|
Posted - 2012.04.07 23:07:00 -
[33] - Quote
Max Essen wrote: Very obvious there are few, if any, industrialist posting in this thread. Bottom line, nothing is wrong with mining as it is. Boring, only if you do it alone ... it is one of the most social of events otherwise. Yes, you are waiting for your lasers to cycle but, chatting with friends, watching local and, in some cases, running a hauler half to death.
And now, with more bots and RMT clowns being banned, it is getting more profitable for the real miners and not the folk who just want to jump on it as the FOTM then whine about it being boring.
I never would have thought I would see the words "miner" and "FOTM" used in conjunction before.
I cannot wait to see the tears of all those people who jumped on the FOTM mining bandwagon when mineral prices are much reduced from current levels. |
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Industrial Complex Cosmic Consortium
1194
|
Posted - 2012.04.07 23:15:00 -
[34] - Quote
If you think mining is boring, you're doing it wrong.
Here is how mining in hisec currently works: sit in a belt with a ship that has practically no tank, a huge-ass sig radius, and the agility of a beached whale. Spam D-scan at 2 million km, warp out as soon as you see combat ships on D-scan.
Alternately, here's how mining works in null sec: sit in belt mining. Shoot the breeze with friends in voice comms, watch the intel channels, and be happy that you only have to remain cogent enough to warp back to POS when you see intel reports of reds inbound (or reds appear in local).
I'm not sure who these people are who think that sitting stationary for hours at a time in a 200M ISK gank magnet is "boring".
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Emiko Luan
Ekchuah's Shrine Comporium Kill It With Fire
54
|
Posted - 2012.04.07 23:44:00 -
[35] - Quote
The mining in Vendetta Online is what you're looking for, would be nice if ccp implemented it here. Combined with more grav sites (add an extra high to some barges and add probes specialised in ore finding) and less belts. +welcome to my world+ http://venomzer0.deviantart.com |
Adunh Slavy
Ammatar Trade Syndicate
541
|
Posted - 2012.04.07 23:54:00 -
[36] - Quote
Tau Cabalander wrote:Since this appears to be a troll and filled with mining haters
This thread is not a troll, well not my intention anyway. As for the comments made from mining haters, whatever, it's the Eve forums. |
Adunh Slavy
Ammatar Trade Syndicate
541
|
Posted - 2012.04.07 23:59:00 -
[37] - Quote
Max Essen wrote:Very obvious there are few, if any, industrialist posting in this thread. Bottom line, nothing is wrong with mining as it is. Boring, only if you do it alone ... it is one of the most social of events otherwise.
Yes, it can be fun with your friends and shooting the breeze, but this is not always the case or easy to just do on a whim. My intent is to find something interesting to do when you don't have a bunch of drunk corp mates to hang out with.
There is a secondary motive to this, and it is Eve economics. Mining is too scalable, too easy for one person to run many accounts at once and far too easy to bot. For each of those "slaves" mining, that's some economic value that is taken out of the market, taken away from someone else who could be doing it. |
Richard Hammond II
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
155
|
Posted - 2012.04.08 00:05:00 -
[38] - Quote
Emiko Luan wrote:Vendetta Online
roflmao that game is a joke
Goons; infiltration at its best - first bob... now ccp itself. They dont realize you guys dot take this as "just a game". Bring it down guys, we're rooting for you. |
Adunh Slavy
Ammatar Trade Syndicate
541
|
Posted - 2012.04.08 00:06:00 -
[39] - Quote
Mara Rinn wrote:Alternately, here's how mining works in null sec:
I would agree, that's why I suggest both a 'not active' and an 'active' mode. In null and low you should be keeping your eye on things, unless you have people looking out for you. An active mode that yields enough extra in low and null can cover the cost of the look out guy's time.
The less active mode could yield the same as currently in low and null, and the active mode yield more than currently. In high sec, the not active mode could yield far less and the active mode yield about the same, or perhaps a bit more than current. |
Persephone 66
Catocalypse Meow ZOMBIE KITTY FORCE
1
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Posted - 2012.04.08 00:11:00 -
[40] - Quote
Silly, silly miners.
Troll a 0.0 corp then go mine in their system. There you go, more fun mining.
Ever consider running missions and reprocessing the loot? |
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Richard Hammond II
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
157
|
Posted - 2012.04.08 00:13:00 -
[41] - Quote
Vandetta online
cause that compares with EVE Goons; infiltration at its best - first bob... now ccp itself. They dont realize you guys dot take this as "just a game". Bring it down guys, we're rooting for you. |
non judgement
Without Fear Flying Burning Ships Alliance
755
|
Posted - 2012.04.08 05:41:00 -
[42] - Quote
Nothing much wrong with mining. I think it has more to do with the attitude of people who don't like it. Why does making isk via mining have to be fun?
Next thing you people will ask that fun things like pvp should give you isk when you kill expensive/hard to kill ships. |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
414
|
Posted - 2012.04.08 06:02:00 -
[43] - Quote
non judgement wrote:Nothing much wrong with mining. I think it has more to do with the attitude of people who don't like it. Why does making isk via mining have to be fun?
Next thing you people will ask that fun things like pvp should give you isk when you kill expensive/hard to kill ships. Ah.
Yeah, the bounty system is broken. I think Riverini had ideas about that, if you remember. Take all the tech Build all the titans Drop all the POSes
Bees incoming, nerf ERRYTHING ERRYDAY |
Mathias Hex
Hillcrest Armaments
31
|
Posted - 2012.04.08 06:02:00 -
[44] - Quote
Watch netflix on a second moniter...works for me I recall one night in a nightclub called the matrix, there I was... Mother of god there I am! Holy f**k. |
Roime
Shiva Furnace
441
|
Posted - 2012.04.08 06:33:00 -
[45] - Quote
Danfen Fenix wrote:IMO, they should base it off the PI model.
Have the player scan the asteroid for deposits of the mineral, and then select an area on the asteroid to mine (with varying sizes of deposits on the asteroid). Every now and then, the miner shuts down/deposit depletes, and they have to resurvey. Only, instead of resurveying every few days, its done every few minutes?
Yeah, this is basically my idea too.
You first scan the roids in normal roid scanner, then open the selected one in Asteroid View. The visual map should have different base colour depending on the asteroid type. Also, besides fast depletion of hotspots, the asteroid rotates :)
So, getting the optimal yield out of a roid, you would need to pay attention and adjust your strip miners every now and then. Adjust the speed so that it is still kind of relaxed. You can still socialize and chat away, but have something interesting to do, and maybe even brag about
Skills would affect the accuracy of the scan results, like in PI.
I think this would be a great solution to add player skills to mining.
If you want to take this further, it would be cool to add adjustable miner cycles to the thing somehow.
Quote:The main thing that would have to be taken in to consideration with this is how to design the surveying section so you can still see whats going on around you & see if ships warp in. Currently, the planetary view stops you from pretty much interacting with your surroundings while doing it, but this isn't a problem with PI as it's usually done from a safe place such as POS or station I wonder if the engine would be capable of just zooming in on the 'roid and showing the deposits on it without hindering the view of the overview or surrounding space.
Not true, both dscan and the overview are perfectly functional in Planetary View. Only thing they broke with Crucible is that ability to use your modules with keyboard shortcuts, no idea why. |
Jessie-A Tassik
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
47
|
Posted - 2012.04.08 06:37:00 -
[46] - Quote
Adunh Slavy wrote:Toshiroma McDiesel wrote:The only problem with the idea of making mining "More Fun" is that anything that would make it More Fun (usually suggested clicky games) would also be more distracting from all that is going on around you, which would make a gankers job easier. Yep, which is why keeping the current method around isn't a bad idea. Even becomes more important in low sec and null.
Agreed. |
D3F4ULT
24
|
Posted - 2012.04.08 07:16:00 -
[47] - Quote
Mining is fine. Stop trying to fix what isn't broken. It's a chore/job, it was never meant to be fun. It's a part of the industrial life of the game that keeps it going. If they made mining "fun" more people would do it, more people mining would drive mineral prices down. I ******* hate that.
Don't change it, it keeps people like you out of my profession so I can make isk and do other things very efficiently. By having it so dull I can actually do my school work in the mean time and even during lectures. If it was anymore involving then my time would be consumed even more so. Creator of CCP ZULU - Incarna : Pants Online ( http://youtu.be/AObrlCf3Dcs ) |
Jastra
Black Thorne Corporation Black Thorne Alliance
25
|
Posted - 2012.04.08 07:19:00 -
[48] - Quote
Nylith Empyreal wrote:Considering afk mining is it's own passive action, and I know they're trying to get rid of passive income. Honestly I don't know what they could do : / Clicking a module to continue an 'active' mining staring at some light show on a fixed rock is going to drive people into insanity. Honestly I think they should just change it into a massive fireworks display. Objective; destroy as many asteroids you can and scoop up the remnants with a mining lazer potentially yielding rarer / more condensed ores and perhaps some weird elements as well. Just turn the belt into rubble and suck up the remnants with the current mining lasers. Hell if they time it and place the bombs right in micro fashion they can get a good chain reaction, that might actually yeild more and cost less explosives. And the bigger the asteroid the more TNT we'll use I tell you now, if you give us an asteroid belt with millions apon millions of asteroids and hte ability with enough careful planning to light the whole thing up in one big ass chain reaction it'll be the next funnest thing in eve below PVP
Cargo scoops, Elite was so ahead of its time
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Mire Stoude
Capital Industries Research And Development Fidelas Constans
2
|
Posted - 2012.04.08 08:16:00 -
[49] - Quote
I'm all for an active system to mine, the only problem is that even miners in high sec need to keep an eye on local, the directional scanner, and the overview while mining to be on the watch out for gank squads. Having to play mining games will hurt a real players ability to recognize threats and warp out. |
Adunh Slavy
Ammatar Trade Syndicate
549
|
Posted - 2012.04.08 08:32:00 -
[50] - Quote
Mire Stoude wrote:I'm all for an active system to mine, the only problem is that even miners in high sec need to keep an eye on local, the directional scanner, and the overview while mining to be on the watch out for gank squads. Having to play mining games will hurt a real players ability to recognize threats and warp out.
High sec, honeslty, most of that is pointless. Local is often filled with nuets as is the dscan. low sec and null is a different matter. Hence thw two modes. |
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Adunh Slavy
Ammatar Trade Syndicate
549
|
Posted - 2012.04.08 08:33:00 -
[51] - Quote
D3F4ULT wrote:Mining is fine. Stop trying to fix what isn't broken. It's a chore/job, it was never meant to be fun. It's a part of the industrial life of the game that keeps it going. If they made mining "fun" more people would do it, more people mining would drive mineral prices down. I ******* hate that.
Don't change it, it keeps people like you out of my profession so I can make isk and do other things very efficiently. By having it so dull I can actually do my school work in the mean time and even during lectures. If it was anymore involving then my time would be consumed even more so.
LOL |
Misanth
RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE
541
|
Posted - 2012.04.08 08:47:00 -
[52] - Quote
Toshiroma McDiesel wrote:The only problem with the idea of making mining "More Fun" is that anything that would make it More Fun (usually suggested clicky games) would also be more distracting from all that is going on around you, which would make a gankers job easier.
Highsec mining shouldn't be really profitable anyways, so it's a non-issue. Plus, as OP suggested, you can use the slack-mode too as it's optional which one you'd use. shiptoastin' liek a baws |
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
513
|
Posted - 2012.04.08 08:59:00 -
[53] - Quote
Mining is one of the major reasons why people have 3-4 accounts. Making it "fun" or "active" and thus requiring active focus will turn it into a 2 accounts thing (1 for PvP 1 for mining). I don't see CCP nerfing their own golden eggs anytime soon. Auditing | Collateral holding and insurance | Consulting | PLEX for Good Charity
Twitter channel |
Adunh Slavy
Ammatar Trade Syndicate
550
|
Posted - 2012.04.08 09:01:00 -
[54] - Quote
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:Mining is one of the major reasons why people have 3-4 accounts. Making it "fun" or "active" and thus requiring active focus will turn it into a 2 accounts thing (1 for PvP 1 for mining). I don't see CCP nerfing their own golden eggs anytime soon.
Well yes there is always *that* to manage. But I live in a dream world where games should be fun, not more expensive. :) |
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Industrial Complex Cosmic Consortium
1210
|
Posted - 2012.04.13 04:11:00 -
[55] - Quote
Adunh Slavy wrote:Well yes there is always *that* to manage. But I live in a dream world where games should be fun, not more expensive. :)
EVE is a sandbox virtual world, not a game you play for cheap entertainment. The game doesn't provide the content, you do.
|
Adunh Slavy
Ammatar Trade Syndicate
620
|
Posted - 2012.04.13 04:41:00 -
[56] - Quote
Mara Rinn wrote: EVE is a sandbox virtual world, not a game you play for cheap entertainment. The game doesn't provide the content, you do.
The under lined bits contradict.
Elaborate please, as it applies to the stament to which I was replying. |
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
555
|
Posted - 2012.04.13 07:08:00 -
[57] - Quote
D3F4ULT wrote:Mining is fine. Stop trying to fix what isn't broken. It's a chore/job, it was never meant to be fun.
Yeah why making a game functionalty fun. Auditing | Collateral holding and insurance | Consulting | PLEX for Good Charity
Twitter channel |
TheBlueMonkey
Natural Progression
122
|
Posted - 2012.04.13 08:28:00 -
[58] - Quote
Ditch mining all together, move all ores to PI |
Jed Mosley
Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire
32
|
Posted - 2012.04.13 08:43:00 -
[59] - Quote
Well some ideas:
1) Have the asteroids constantly moving in orbit and introduce some means of collisions so that your ship loses damage if you are in the collision course, this would also make jet can mining non bot friendly, you stay still and mine into your can, suddenly asteroids out of range and you have to move again but then you have a can sitting miles away. This would also keep the rorq pilots more active and bring some use to their tractor beam range etc.
2) revamp the ore scanner so that you have to pinpoint on the rock where you will get most yeald, rocks dont pop but become more depleted so to speak, have that maybe happen once every cycle from a fully skilled hulk. Every 3 minutes you have to scan down a new point and start mining that (manually clicking at the spot you want your mining lasers to shoot at). This would eliminate botting completely.
|
Zimmy Zeta
Paramount Commerce
955
|
Posted - 2012.04.13 09:01:00 -
[60] - Quote
Grey Stormshadow wrote:To be honest they could provide way to automatically mine (=ingame mining bot), but the yield should be 20-30 times slower than active mining. This could be done by providing some kind of mining drone container which can be anchored to belt. Player would need to haul the ore and relocate the device when it is full/belt is depleted. The device should be killable during wardecs and even the belt rats could attack it and the mining drones unless there are some combat drones remaining to protect it. No more than 24h yield should ever fit to the cargo hold of those thing. There should not be limitation how many of those can be anchored to belt, but in hisec concord should bill (rather high) daily fee from each anchored - mining or not. In lowsec and nullsec those would be free to kill and dead in no time without active player protection as the heavier belt rats would do their thing. In other words these would be mainly used in hisec only for most common ores.
Normal active mining with hulks and such should give enough yield to make it worth while even you mine only 4-5 hours in a week.
Dunno if this makes any sense, but in long term I would want to see this or some similar other semi passive mining solution as continuous daily active mining will get dull after a while.
I actually like this idea a lot. I do not mine, I cannot even fly a hulk (and I am not intending to learn it), but I make a lot of isk by selling strip miners to miners and blasters to gankers- so I would prefer a semi-automated system that still allows for ganking.
I also think that a huge problem with mining is that new players are somewhat magically attracted to this profession. Mining corps are actively looking for newbies everywhere and often telling them to skip all combat skills and train straight up to Hulk. While this makes sense for the corp that wants their members to generate the most iskies, I belive it might be one of the main resaons why new players quit eve after several months again. So either make mining more fun or change the skill prerequesites for exhumers so that they also include a decent amount of combat skills (like making BC 3 a prerequesite). -.- |
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Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
557
|
Posted - 2012.04.13 09:02:00 -
[61] - Quote
Zimmy Zeta wrote:I also think that a huge problem with mining is that new players are somewhat magically attracted to this profession.
It's not magic, the ISDs on the rookie chats tell people to start with mining, plus mining has one of the lowest entry barriers.
Auditing | Collateral holding and insurance | Consulting | PLEX for Good Charity
Twitter channel |
Jed Mosley
Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire
32
|
Posted - 2012.04.13 09:04:00 -
[62] - Quote
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:Zimmy Zeta wrote:I also think that a huge problem with mining is that new players are somewhat magically attracted to this profession. It's not magic, the ISDs on the rookie chats tell people to start with mining, plus mining has one of the lowest entry barriers.
Well to be honest, after you finish the starter missions and go on to do the epic arcs then you should have enough skills to start doing lvl 1 missions, I seriously dont understand why ISD would recommend mining (officially the most boring profession in eve) to new potential customers. |
TheBlueMonkey
Natural Progression
122
|
Posted - 2012.04.13 09:06:00 -
[63] - Quote
Zimmy Zeta wrote:Grey Stormshadow wrote:To be honest they could provide way to automatically mine (=ingame mining bot), but the yield should be 20-30 times slower than active mining. This could be done by providing some kind of mining drone container which can be anchored to belt. Player would need to haul the ore and relocate the device when it is full/belt is depleted. The device should be killable during wardecs and even the belt rats could attack it and the mining drones unless there are some combat drones remaining to protect it. No more than 24h yield should ever fit to the cargo hold of those thing. There should not be limitation how many of those can be anchored to belt, but in hisec concord should bill (rather high) daily fee from each anchored - mining or not. In lowsec and nullsec those would be free to kill and dead in no time without active player protection as the heavier belt rats would do their thing. In other words these would be mainly used in hisec only for most common ores.
Normal active mining with hulks and such should give enough yield to make it worth while even you mine only 4-5 hours in a week.
Dunno if this makes any sense, but in long term I would want to see this or some similar other semi passive mining solution as continuous daily active mining will get dull after a while.
I actually like this idea a lot. I do not mine, I cannot even fly a hulk (and I am not intending to learn it), but I make a lot of isk by selling strip miners to miners and blasters to gankers- so I would prefer a semi-automated system that still allows for ganking. I also think that a huge problem with mining is that new players are somewhat magically attracted to this profession. Mining corps are actively looking for newbies everywhere and often telling them to skip all combat skills and train straight up to Hulk. While this makes sense for the corp that wants their members to generate the most iskies, I belive it might be one of the main resaons why new players quit eve after several months again. So either make mining more fun or change the skill prerequesites for exhumers so that they also include a decent amount of combat skills (like making BC 3 a prerequesite).
I too blame mining corps for new players leaving after a short time. Too much "you can't do x untill you have Y" and the like.
people just need to dive in and see what happens |
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Industrial Complex Cosmic Consortium
1210
|
Posted - 2012.04.13 09:46:00 -
[64] - Quote
Adunh Slavy wrote:Mara Rinn wrote: EVE is a sandbox virtual world, not a game you play for cheap entertainment. The game doesn't provide the content, you do.
The under lined bits contradict. Elaborate please, as it applies to the stament to which I was replying.
*yawn*
EVE is a sandbox virtual world, not a game you play for cheap entertainment. The sandbox doesn't provide the content, you do.
|
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Industrial Complex Cosmic Consortium
1210
|
Posted - 2012.04.13 09:48:00 -
[65] - Quote
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:It's not magic, the ISDs on the rookie chats tell people to start with mining, plus mining has one of the lowest entry barriers.
Oh dear :\
The ISDs should be pointing people towards the Making ISK guide and letting the players make up their own minds about what to do. |
Adunh Slavy
Ammatar Trade Syndicate
620
|
Posted - 2012.04.13 16:28:00 -
[66] - Quote
Mara Rinn wrote: *yawn*
EVE is a sandbox virtual world, not a game you play for cheap entertainment. The sandbox doesn't provide the content, you do.
I am still not sure why that would justify the need for multiple accounts to make "mining interesting". They are unlike things. The content we create for our selves exists regardless of the number of accounts, yes? |
Testerxnot Sheepherder
DeadHeads - Question Authority Crew
50
|
Posted - 2012.04.13 16:37:00 -
[67] - Quote
I'd rather cancel my subscription than use multiple accounts.
Because that's when you know you're doin' it wrong. |
Barakach
R-ISK Shadow Operations.
43
|
Posted - 2012.04.13 17:24:00 -
[68] - Quote
Seems everyone agrees there needs to be some active interaction for mining that gives a bonus.
Mini tetris game that the minerals you're mining come down as blocks. You need to stack them. As they're stacked, they are compressed, which allows you to not only store more in your hold, but increases your mining rate. /sarc
but really.. something. |
Mathias Hex
Hillcrest Armaments
34
|
Posted - 2012.04.13 21:06:00 -
[69] - Quote
I agree with the people who say mining is supposed to be boring. We dont want everyone and there brother mining do we? If you cant stomach it do something else. Best thing about MMO's is the Massive part...
I recall one night in a nightclub called the matrix, there I was... Mother of god there I am! Holy f**k. |
Kengutsi Akira
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
401
|
Posted - 2012.04.13 21:09:00 -
[70] - Quote
Jed Mosley wrote:Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:Zimmy Zeta wrote:I also think that a huge problem with mining is that new players are somewhat magically attracted to this profession. It's not magic, the ISDs on the rookie chats tell people to start with mining, plus mining has one of the lowest entry barriers. Well to be honest, after you finish the starter missions and go on to do the epic arcs then you should have enough skills to start doing lvl 1 missions, I seriously dont understand why ISD would recommend mining (officially the most boring profession in eve) to new potential customers.
ever do the grind from lvl 1 to 4 missions? Its worse than mining and it seems like you make more for less skills mining than running missions (look at the requirements for combat vs mining)
Testerxnot Sheepherder wrote:I'd rather cancel my subscription than use multiple accounts.
Because that's when you know you're doin' it wrong.
Wow then 95% of the game is doin it wrong. You should tell em. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1109909#post1109909
My stance on WiS (updated) |
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Kattshiro
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
65
|
Posted - 2012.04.13 22:00:00 -
[71] - Quote
Needs to be more of a scanning component to it. ALA mass effect type system/PI. Real mining people analysis geology and soil composition making it a bit of science and luck.
I think mining needs more than an overhaul it needs to be re done completely. However that's quite a risk.
Instead of roid == ore. Need my skill and intellect to get the best possible yield.
As for the entertainment part.... Well shouldn't a game be entertaining? Not everything can be 100% wtf blow your mind 100% of the time... Especially in a sand box, but the fact that 99% of people admit that it is boring... Something wrong with that. And the fact that devs even admit to afk mining... Seems like something is wrong with a game that gets complacent by that fact and ignores it or rationalizes it...
Seems like the mechanic is fundamentally flawed if it's a chore more than anything. |
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