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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
Lyrrashae
Crushed Ambitions Reckless Ambition
259
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Posted - 2012.04.08 18:11:00 -
[31] - Quote
Brewlar Kuvakei wrote:Stella SGP wrote:nom nom nom MOAR TEARS! Quotes from supporters of T2BPO. As you can see they are idiots. Still not a single reason for keeping them not one.
The barely-literate tears of idiots have been demonstrated to have a pump-octane rating of 100, with massively reduced CO, CO(subscript)2, and NOx emisions, and reduced fuel-consumption...
MOAR!! Do your part for the environment, and fine very-high-performance engines everywhere! The invention of ice-hockey is proof that Canada deserves to rule the world. Eh.
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Prince Kobol
523
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Posted - 2012.04.08 18:18:00 -
[32] - Quote
Not this subject again...
ARGHHHHH
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Shadowsword
The Scope Gallente Federation
120
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Posted - 2012.04.08 19:06:00 -
[33] - Quote
Brewlar Kuvakei wrote:Stella SGP wrote:nom nom nom MOAR TEARS! Quotes from supporters of T2BPO. As you can see they are idiots. Still not a single reason for keeping them not one.
Reasons were given in the locked thread, but since they weren't supporting your silly crusade, you ignored them. Keep making a fool of yourself. |
lol fourm troll
State War Academy Caldari State
3
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Posted - 2012.04.08 19:49:00 -
[34] - Quote
Looks lile i have more supporters than u now, this thread was locked for a reason. Maybe u do want to get banned |
Dennmoth Ferdier
The Scope Gallente Federation
5
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Posted - 2012.04.08 21:56:00 -
[35] - Quote
Here, I spent a good 5 minutes googling this for you, please take the time to read it.
If you have joined only recently, you might not know who Akita T is. He is / was a substantial Science & Industry common sense, reason & logic powerhouse, of who I myself, along with many other people, had the pleasure of learning a lot from by reading his posts.
I hope this will enlighten you, the thread makes a good read, albeit a long one.
http://eve-search.com/thread/1360780-0 |
Boomhaur
9
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Posted - 2012.04.08 22:20:00 -
[36] - Quote
Welcome to Eve Online, life is unfair, everyone is out to get YOU. It's not just your paranoia. We are out to steal, murder, exploit, scam, and a million other unmentionable things we are trying to do to you when you hit that log in button.
So why are you complaining about the poor old T2 BPO, after all this game was never meant to be fair, we pride ourselves in being probably the most evil sick sadistic MMO out there.
Oh and can you send me your stuff when you leave. |
Dersk
EXPCS Corp SpaceMonkey's Alliance
52
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Posted - 2012.04.08 22:24:00 -
[37] - Quote
Brewlar Kuvakei wrote:a lot of retards making personal attacks
You injure my faith in humanity. |
Haulie Berry
1
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Posted - 2012.04.09 06:07:00 -
[38] - Quote
Every CCP analysis of T2 BPOs has unambiguously shown that they are not a problem. This is based on objective data, as opposed to threads like this which are wholly the product of someone's personal feelings (mostly envy).
That being the case, removal of T2 BPOs would effectively constitute the deletion of hundreds of billions in individual asset value not for the objective good of the game, but rather solely to quell the complaints of a vocal minority of players who are bad at math. This would not be a good precedent. |
Karim alRashid
Aliastra Gallente Federation
178
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Posted - 2012.04.09 07:06:00 -
[39] - Quote
Haulie Berry wrote:Every CCP analysis of T2 BPOs has unambiguously shown that they are not a problem. This is based on objective data
Where is this objective data? Does it apply to all modules and ships or only to modules?
BTW, the issue of "XYZ BPO being a problem" is the same as "XYZ Invention not good enough", even if there's no actual "XYZ BPO".
And yes, for a lot of ships invention is not good enough. |
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ISD 3-14
Community Communications Liaisons
5
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Posted - 2012.04.09 07:21:00 -
[40] - Quote
Please follow forum rules. Don't duolicate your thread. Thank you.
CCP Spitfire wrote:Petitions are not allowed on the forums.
Thread locked.
ISD 3-14 Community Communication Liaisons (CCL) -Æ-+-+-+-+-é-æ-Ç -¦-Ç-â-+-+-ï -+-+ -¦-+-¦-+-+-+-¦-¦-¦-ü-é-¦-+-Ä -ü -+-¦-Ç-+-¦-¦-+-+ Interstellar Services Department |
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Haulie Berry
3
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Posted - 2012.04.09 07:26:00 -
[41] - Quote
Quote:Where is this objective data?
In every QEN that has ever discussed the topic.
Quote:Does it apply to all modules and ships or only to modules?
It applies to the economy as a whole.
Quote: BTW, the issue of "XYZ BPO being a problem" is the same as "XYZ Invention not good enough", even if there's no actual "XYZ BPO". Lol
And yes, for a lot of ships invention is not good enough.
About the only thing "wrong" with invention is that it's a hand-numbing clickfest.
The reason that invention doesn't seem to be "good enough" for some items is not because of the system, but because of the aforementioned math-averse players.
Ewar frigates, for example. There's no BPO. They almost invariably are either money losers or provide margins so thin that the production line is better used on something else.
If you were to "improve" invention - say by somehow allowing the ME of blueprints to be increased (as is so frequently suggested) - that situation would not change. The cost of building them would decrease, and the price would decrease to match. The problem is that the supply vastly outstrips the demand, and it is doing this solely with invention.
The industrialists responsible for saturating those markets are the same people who complain about BPOs. There's probably a touch of Dunning-Kruger at play here. They're bad at this to the point that they can't even identify that they are bad at it, and BPOs, to the neophyte industrialist, make for an easy scapegoat. |
Brewlar Kuvakei
Adeptio Gloriae
37
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Posted - 2012.04.09 20:02:00 -
[42] - Quote
I'm glad this thread got unlocked as I hope it will become the focal point for peoples abhorrence to T2BPO and that it makes noobs aware of their existance. I hope that people can refrain from making personal attacks just because they disagree with the removal of T2BPO. |
Tarryn Nightstorm
Hellstar Towing and Recovery
345
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Posted - 2012.04.09 20:15:00 -
[43] - Quote
Brewlar Kuvakei wrote:I'm glad this thread got unlocked as I hope it will become the focal point for peoples abhorrence to T2BPO and that it makes noobs aware of their existance. I hope that people can refrain from making personal attacks just because they disagree with the removal of T2BPO.
But it won't:
T2 BPOs are completely irrelevant to the vast majority of those of us who invent, make piles of money at it, and view T2 BPOs as an intellectual curiosity, if we think about them at all.
"Noob" is a pejorative, by the way--it helps to not insult your intended audience if you're trying to sway them to your foolish crusade.
Your reasoning is fallacious.
Your arguments are spurious and fuelled by selfish, whinging jealousy.
No-one cares.
Next!
In irae, veritas. |
Haulie Berry
4
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Posted - 2012.04.09 21:05:00 -
[44] - Quote
Tarryn Nightstorm wrote:
Your arguments are spurious and fuelled by selfish, whinging jealousy.
No-one cares.
Next!
Bears repeating. |
Bluestream3
the Goose Flock
12
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Posted - 2012.04.09 21:23:00 -
[45] - Quote
Tarryn Nightstorm wrote: But it won't:
T2 BPOs are completely irrelevant to the vast majority of those of us who invent, make piles of money at it, and view T2 BPOs as an intellectual curiosity, if we think about them at all.
"Noob" is a pejorative, by the way--it helps to not insult your intended audience if you're trying to sway them to your foolish crusade.
Your reasoning is fallacious.
Your arguments are spurious and fuelled by selfish, whinging jealousy.
No-one cares.
Next!
Ok. Saying that T2 BPOs are completely irrelevant to inventors is just as much of a logic fail as to say that the minerals I mine are free. Also don't say that no one cares, you seem to care at least a bit since you're writing in this thread and there are several others that do too, me included obviously.
Then again I think it would be good to just wait and see what happens. If I understand it correctly the upcoming expansions will be iterating on a couple of different areas, please correct me if I'm wrong but I think industry or manufacturing was one of the areas. And while I don't expect them to just remove T2 BPOs, but I'm sure they'll at least mention them or share their thoughts in some way, because let's face it, wether you want them gone or not, it's a pretty widely discussed topic when it comes to manufacturing and ignoring it would be very dissappointing (even if the owners would obviously prefer it that way ;)). |
Brewlar Kuvakei
Adeptio Gloriae
37
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Posted - 2012.04.09 21:32:00 -
[46] - Quote
Tarryn Nightstorm wrote:Brewlar Kuvakei wrote:I'm glad this thread got unlocked as I hope it will become the focal point for peoples abhorrence to T2BPO and that it makes noobs aware of their existance. I hope that people can refrain from making personal attacks just because they disagree with the removal of T2BPO. But it won't: T2 BPOs are completely irrelevant to the vast majority of those of us who invent, make piles of money at it, and view T2 BPOs as an intellectual curiosity, if we think about them at all. "Noob" is a pejorative, by the way--it helps to not insult your intended audience if you're trying to sway them to your foolish crusade. Your reasoning is fallacious. Your arguments are spurious and fuelled by selfish, whinging jealousy. No-one cares. Next!
T2BPO are not irreleveant did you even read the data released by CCP? |
Shadowsword
The Scope Gallente Federation
120
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Posted - 2012.04.09 21:55:00 -
[47] - Quote
Bluestream3 wrote: Ok. Saying that T2 BPOs are completely irrelevant to inventors is just as much of a logic fail as to say that the minerals I mine are free. Also don't say that no one cares, you seem to care at least a bit since you're writing in this thread and there are several others that do too, me included obviously.
"Completely irrelevant" is an exageration. "Largely irrelevant" would be apt.
Can you name one specific item where inventor margins would be significantly improved if T2 BPOs were removed? (Hint: this is a trap question. Even if you find one, which is doubtful, I have plenty of counter-examples to pick from)
If not, that is empirical evidence that the existence of those BPOs aren't significantly affecting inventors, and so, yes, they are "largely irrelevant". Very far from what this Don Quichotte of an OP is claiming. |
Zifrian
Licentia Ex Vereor Intrepid Crossing
240
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Posted - 2012.04.09 22:22:00 -
[48] - Quote
The main issue with your whole set of threads is that you have already determined that T2 BPOs are unfair and should be removed. That seems to be the reoccurring theme in these types of threads. Most of us don't think they are a problem or need to be removed. But you didn't ask that, you just jumped in feet first with 'they are unfair' and thus you get the back and forth.
All the data produced and analysis shows that T2 BPOs fill low demand items that have low volume or the items are so high demand that inventors can make isk comparable to those with T2 BPOs due to production times and number of blueprints.
So basically, if you want to continue this, I suggest you get some facts and numbers to argue first *if* they are harming the economy enough that they should be removed, then talk about how. But trying to find a problem to your solution is t going to get you anywhere. Maximze your Industry Potential! - Get EVE Isk per Hour! |
Bluestream3
the Goose Flock
12
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Posted - 2012.04.09 22:24:00 -
[49] - Quote
Shadowsword wrote:Bluestream3 wrote: Ok. Saying that T2 BPOs are completely irrelevant to inventors is just as much of a logic fail as to say that the minerals I mine are free. Also don't say that no one cares, you seem to care at least a bit since you're writing in this thread and there are several others that do too, me included obviously.
"Completely irrelevant" is an exageration. "Largely irrelevant" would be apt. Can you name one specific item where inventor margins would be significantly improved if T2 BPOs were removed? (Hint: this is a trap question. Even if you find one, which is doubtful, I have plenty of counter-examples to pick from) If not, that is empirical evidence that the existence of those BPOs aren't significantly affecting inventors, and so, yes, they are "largely irrelevant". Very far from what this Don Quichotte of an OP is claiming.
All of them. The kind of argument you're trying to get started here is a never-ending discussion that I don't want to get involved in at the moment, now flame away for that. However it is obvious that it's cheaper to build items from T2 BPOs than it is from invention. As long as some percent of items is produced cheaper from originals than the rest of the supply, they will have an impact on the market, small or large.
Without the numbers released from CCP we can't say anything and in my opinion, anyone who claims to know what would happen is simply lying because there's just no way to know. Personally, I think the numbers released by CCP speaks for themselves. |
Salo Aldeland
Luma Operations
10
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Posted - 2012.04.09 22:36:00 -
[50] - Quote
Brewlar Kuvakei wrote:
T2BPO are not irreleveant did you even read the data released by CCP?
What I saw was that a tiny number of BPO's is enough to supply a market with tiny demand. If my goal was to strike it rich building a bunch of expensive ships that nobody wants to buy then sure, competing against BPO's would be a huge problem. Thankfully, I'm nowhere near that stupid.
As a new and thriving industrialist, they are completely irrelevant to the success or failure of my ventures. Compared to their cost of acquisition, they make next to nothing in profit. They're completely irrelevant to the balance of the market. Nobody's getting rich off of them. The only thing T2 BPO's pertain to is a sense of injury that a long, long time ago some people allegedly got a bunch of BPO's through some vaguely crooked channels, and the rest of didn't and never will again.
Boo friggin' hoo. Did you read what this game says on the box? It's been designed as unfair FROM THE GROUND UP. That's what it's advertised as. That's why people pay for it, to play a game of Space Jerks where anything goes. I would be frankly upset if a huge faction with trillions upon trillions in assets COULDN'T abuse the system. What the hell is all that money for, it not for dominating the galaxy?
Do you honestly think it's some sort of a secret that Eve is a cruel, unfair game? You really think that if CCP was worried about one player gaining an advantage over another through less-than-honorable means they'd start with removing T2 BPO's?
I usually find there's a Zappa lyric that pertains to just about everything. Here's yours:
Frank Zappa wrote: Maybe you should stay with yo' mamma. She could do your laundry 'n cook for you.
You ain't really made for bein' out in the street Ain't much hope for a fool like you 'Cause if you play the game, you will get beat
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Brewlar Kuvakei
Adeptio Gloriae
39
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Posted - 2012.04.09 22:50:00 -
[51] - Quote
Salo Aldeland wrote:Brewlar Kuvakei wrote:
T2BPO are not irreleveant did you even read the data released by CCP?
What I saw was that a tiny number of BPO's is enough to supply a market with tiny demand. If my goal was to strike it rich building a bunch of expensive ships that nobody wants to buy then sure, competing against BPO's would be a huge problem. Thankfully, I'm nowhere near that stupid. As a new and thriving industrialist, they are completely irrelevant to the success or failure of my ventures. Compared to their cost of acquisition, they make next to nothing in profit. They're completely irrelevant to the balance of the market. Nobody's getting rich off of them. The only thing T2 BPO's pertain to is a sense of injury that a long, long time ago some people allegedly got a bunch of BPO's through some vaguely crooked channels, and the rest of didn't and never will again. Boo friggin' hoo. Did you read what this game says on the box? It's been designed as unfair FROM THE GROUND UP. That's what it's advertised as. That's why people pay for it, to play a game of Space Jerks where anything goes. I would be frankly upset if a huge faction with trillions upon trillions in assets COULDN'T abuse the system. What the hell is all that money for, it not for dominating the galaxy? Do you honestly think it's some sort of a secret that Eve is a cruel, unfair game? You really think that if CCP was worried about one player gaining an advantage over another through less-than-honorable means they'd start with removing T2 BPO's? I usually find there's a Zappa lyric that pertains to just about everything. Here's yours: Frank Zappa wrote: Maybe you should stay with yo' mamma. She could do your laundry 'n cook for you.
You ain't really made for bein' out in the street Ain't much hope for a fool like you 'Cause if you play the game, you will get beat
Funny that pay to win was so opposed then. It's basically the same as what you jsut described. Something that allows one player a distinct advantage over others.
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Salo Aldeland
Luma Operations
10
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Posted - 2012.04.09 23:42:00 -
[52] - Quote
Brewlar Kuvakei wrote: Funny that pay to win was so opposed then. It's basically the same as what you jsut described. Something that allows one player a distinct advantage over others.
Oh, you mean PLEX? |
Aggressive Nutmeg
156
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Posted - 2012.04.10 00:38:00 -
[53] - Quote
I don't own any T2BPO's but I like that we have the option of pursuing these items to form a rare collection.
T2BPO collection is another fun option within Eve - at least for some people, I suspect.
Remove T2BPO's and you make this universe just a little bit less interesting. Never make eye contact with someone while eating a banana. |
Shadowsword
The Scope Gallente Federation
122
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Posted - 2012.04.10 05:56:00 -
[54] - Quote
Hint for the economic noobs: Selling price is related to building cost ONLY on very low-demand items, when margins are so razor-thin that most productors give up on supplying the market. For any item with a reasonnable transaction volume, the ONLY thing that determine the selling price is how much buyers are ready to fork out for it. |
Voogru
Massive Damage We Are John Galt
3
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Posted - 2012.04.10 07:03:00 -
[55] - Quote
Quote:1. They were dropped by Rats in certain systems. Many deemed this unfair and pointed to the fact that CCP were intentionally aiming drops at particularly alliances/corps by generating the drop in their space
lol. |
Voogru
Massive Damage We Are John Galt
3
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Posted - 2012.04.10 07:06:00 -
[56] - Quote
Lauren Hellfury wrote:Still selling [T2H8R] shares. 1M each and all proceeds go towards the purchase and trashing of T2 BPOs.
If you really want to see T2 BPOs starting to be removed from the game then this is how you do it. We're about halfway to the first one visiting the recycler.
Link in sig. Do it!
You know what would be really smart? Rather than destroying the bpos right away, build from them and use the profits to buy more T2 BPO's!
Then once you have trillions of ISK worth of all of the BPO's, then trash them all! |
Kurfin
Space Research and Technology Investments
17
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Posted - 2012.04.10 08:41:00 -
[57] - Quote
Does anyone know how many T2BPOs are in use? They were seeded a quite a while ago, so I'd imagine there are plenty on inactive accounts and in dead corp hangers and some for unwanted modules/ships simply won't get used a significant amount. What really affects invention profits is the same thing that affects all manufacturing, people not doing their sums and routinely selling below cost price.
Of course, if to even the playing field between T2BPO holders and inventors CCP tweaked the invented BPCs ME to positive figures I wouldn't complain. |
Shadowsword
The Scope Gallente Federation
122
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Posted - 2012.04.10 11:31:00 -
[58] - Quote
When they were seeded, it was 8 BPOs for each T2 ship and 16 BPOs for each T2 module.
Quite a few have been lost since then, bewteen destructions and canceled accounts. |
Joshua Aivoras
Tech IV Industries The Methodical Alliance
200
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Posted - 2012.04.10 12:44:00 -
[59] - Quote
Gatan Hahran wrote:my neighbour got an iphone4. i cant afford one so they need to take it away from him.
Your neighbor is a tool 95% of the players are loving EVE, the other 5%? On the forums. |
Nydia Carver
Hedion University Amarr Empire
1
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Posted - 2012.04.10 16:15:00 -
[60] - Quote
Well they fixed drone regions, next it-¦s T2 BPO-¦s. |
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