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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
shar'ra matcevsovski
Hedion University Amarr Empire
110
|
Posted - 2012.07.26 06:22:00 -
[871] - Quote
Jorma Morkkis wrote:Pipa Porto wrote:Sentence parsing is a useful skill in any language. Oh... we have expert here. I'd be ready to bet that you can't complete one single sentence in Finnish or Swedish
How fastcinating, a non native english speaker! Look, english is not my primary language (not even secondary, to be exact) either, but its the only spoken langauge in this forum. So if you want to know everything better in said Forum, its a very lame excuse to bring, that its not your native language.
Jorma Morkkis wrote: If T2 BPOs are terrible investments then why do they still exists in-game?
what kind of backpedalling-logic is that?... is there a rule that every single existing item in the game must be a good investment or profitable at some point? My male (huray!) exotic Dancer isnt profitable or very usefull either, should he get removed too? |
Pipa Porto
498
|
Posted - 2012.07.26 06:23:00 -
[872] - Quote
Jorma Morkkis wrote:Pipa Porto wrote:Sentence parsing is a useful skill in any language. Oh... we have expert here. I'd be ready to bet that you can't complete one single sentence in Finnish or Swedish
Give me a dictionary and a sentence structure guide, and I bet I could parse it.
Anyway, I learned Latin in school, and French at home, not Finnish or Swetish. Not everybody has to speak English, but learning how to figure out what sentences actually say is kind of important when speaking in any language.
Quote:Pipa Porto wrote:If I owned a T2 BPO, I'd have sold it already. Know why? Because they're terrible investments. If T2 BPOs are terrible investments then why do they still exists in-game? Obviously there's something good in them. - Profit - Owner dominates market.
Being terrible investments is not an argument to remove them. Titan and Supercap BPOs are terrible investments right now. No reason to remove those.
They're collectors items, and the premium that they command over their rational value is proof of that.
-They provide a terrible income for their capital investment. -They do no such thing. A Hulk BPO produces 30 Hulks a month. Jita alone consumes 2000+. HAG killed 9,000 in like 3 months. There are maybe 5-10 Hulk BPOs. That's at most 300 Hulks from BPOs a month when at least 3,000 a month were needed just for replacement.
Again, if T2 BPOs are so good, why haven't you bought one? https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=134773&find=unread 17b, 38m Isk LOSS per month. (But wait, I thought they were overpowered and ruled the market?) EvE: Everyone vs Everyone |
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy Caldari State
121
|
Posted - 2012.07.26 07:02:00 -
[873] - Quote
Pipa Porto wrote:-They provide a terrible income for their capital investment. -They do no such thing. A Hulk BPO produces 30 Hulks a month. Jita alone consumes 2000+. HAG killed 9,000 in like 3 months. There are maybe 5-10 Hulk BPOs. That's at most 300 Hulks from BPOs a month when at least 3,000 a month were needed just for replacement.
What is better investment? Invention is one of the worst ways to earn isk.
Why you link these terrible ones? There's better BPOs out there. |
Pipa Porto
498
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Posted - 2012.07.26 07:08:00 -
[874] - Quote
Jorma Morkkis wrote:Pipa Porto wrote:-They provide a terrible income for their capital investment. -They do no such thing. A Hulk BPO produces 30 Hulks a month. Jita alone consumes 2000+. HAG killed 9,000 in like 3 months. There are maybe 5-10 Hulk BPOs. That's at most 300 Hulks from BPOs a month when at least 3,000 a month were needed just for replacement. What is better investment? Invention is one of the worst ways to earn isk.
You clearly have no idea how to do invention. You can pretty easily break 2m ISK/hr/line doing invention. You could use the Isk you would have invested in a T2 BPO on market manip. You could run a reaction farm. You could invest in collateralized loans (most pay ~5%-8%).
Quote:Why you link these terrible ones? There's better BPOs out there.
These are the ones currently on sale. I don't normally look for T2 BPO sales because I don't want one because I don't throw my money away on expensive collectors items).
I also linked the Scimitar BPO. That's one of the better ones (as it's also profitable to invent), and that makes ~3b a month and costs 290b.
That's a 1% monthly rate of return.
Copying Titan BPOs does better than that, and that market's crashed into the dirt. EvE: Everyone vs Everyone |
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy Caldari State
121
|
Posted - 2012.07.26 07:16:00 -
[875] - Quote
Pipa Porto wrote:You clearly have no idea how to do invention. You can pretty easily break 2m ISK/hr/line doing invention.
I know how to do invention. Just not worth it. Nobody buys T2 BPCs. Or I would have to wait months to sell one. |
Pipa Porto
498
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Posted - 2012.07.26 07:19:00 -
[876] - Quote
Jorma Morkkis wrote:Pipa Porto wrote:You clearly have no idea how to do invention. You can pretty easily break 2m ISK/hr/line doing invention. I know how to do invention. Just not worth it. Nobody buys T2 BPCs. Or I would have to wait months to sell one.
That's because everyone does the smart thing with their invented BPCs so nobody bothers looking on contracts. You have to actually build the thing.
And again, all of those other things make a better return on investment than BPOs.
You know how big a reactor farm you could set up with the 290b Isk you'd otherwise have tied up in a Scimi BPO? EvE: Everyone vs Everyone |
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy Caldari State
121
|
Posted - 2012.07.26 07:29:00 -
[877] - Quote
Pipa Porto wrote:That's because everyone does the smart thing with their invented BPCs so nobody bothers looking on contracts. You have to actually build the thing.
That's what I thought, but unfortunately it doesn't work that way.
I would have to build few specific modules/ships to get decent profit. Otherwise I would get very small profit or actually lose money:
Akita T wrote:You ARE allowed to manufacture whatever the friggin' heck you want. You are NOT allowed to complain you're not making much profit if you build what you like not what gives you the best profit. |
shar'ra matcevsovski
Hedion University Amarr Empire
110
|
Posted - 2012.07.26 07:51:00 -
[878] - Quote
Jorma Morkkis wrote:Pipa Porto wrote:That's because everyone does the smart thing with their invented BPCs so nobody bothers looking on contracts. You have to actually build the thing. That's what I thought, but unfortunately it doesn't work that way.
its exactly how it works, but as you said, you dont know how to Invent profitable
Jorma Morkkis wrote: I would have to build few specific modules/ships to get decent profit. Otherwise I would get very small profit or actually lose money:
so? |
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy Caldari State
121
|
Posted - 2012.07.26 08:02:00 -
[879] - Quote
shar'ra matcevsovski wrote:so?
Building only Basis, Scimis, T2 invuls, T2 LSEs and T2 HMLs starts to get boring at some point. |
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
1196
|
Posted - 2012.07.26 08:05:00 -
[880] - Quote
Jorma Morkkis wrote:Building only Basis, Scimis, T2 invuls, T2 LSEs and T2 HMLs starts to get boring at some point. Your claimed boredom is of absolutely no relevance to the issue at hand. Also, there's plenty more that make a decent profit other than just those. The only time you would be justified in complaining would be if you could not find any items whatsoever where you could make a decent profit. http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/User:Akita_T http://eve-search.com/stats/Akita_T T2 BPO poll : https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=114789 |
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Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy Caldari State
121
|
Posted - 2012.07.26 08:09:00 -
[881] - Quote
Akita T wrote:Your claimed boredom is of absolutely no relevance to the issue at hand. Also, there's plenty more that make a decent profit other than just those. The only time you would be justified in complaining would be if you could not find any items whatsoever where you could make a decent profit.
You don't get it?
Only items I would get decent profit are Basis and Scimis. For example I would have to build 1M units of T2 HMLs to get decent profit. |
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
1196
|
Posted - 2012.07.26 08:10:00 -
[882] - Quote
So now you want to sit there and say that you can't make a decent profit inventing Hulks ? Then either you're screwing up calculations, or your skills are junk, or you're using the wrong decryptors. http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/User:Akita_T http://eve-search.com/stats/Akita_T T2 BPO poll : https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=114789 |
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy Caldari State
121
|
Posted - 2012.07.26 08:13:00 -
[883] - Quote
Akita T wrote:Then either you're screwing up calculations, or your skills are junk, or you're using the wrong decryptors.
50k isk profit / T2 HML
Most of build cost is in components. |
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
1196
|
Posted - 2012.07.26 08:17:00 -
[884] - Quote
HULK, not HML, you spaz. As in, the damn friggin' exhumer. The ship. The one you fly in. To mine ore. http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/User:Akita_T http://eve-search.com/stats/Akita_T T2 BPO poll : https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=114789 |
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy Caldari State
121
|
Posted - 2012.07.26 08:24:00 -
[885] - Quote
Akita T wrote:HULK, not HML, you spaz. As in, the damn friggin' exhumer. The ship. The one you fly in. To mine ore.
Not Hulk, the HML. |
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
1196
|
Posted - 2012.07.26 08:27:00 -
[886] - Quote
Jorma Morkkis wrote:Akita T wrote:Jorma Morkkis wrote:Only items I would get decent profit are Basis and Scimis. So now you want to sit there and say that you can't make a decent profit inventing Hulks ? Not Hulk, the HML. Comprehension problems ?
Jorma Morkkis wrote:Hulk, Mackinaw and Skiff BPOs will be very good items to have. A lot of profit after Inferno 1.2 hits TQ.
Jorma Morkkis wrote:Demand for Hulks will drop after Inferno 1.2 is released. Not much profit in there. Contradicting yourself much too ? http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/User:Akita_T http://eve-search.com/stats/Akita_T T2 BPO poll : https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=114789 |
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy Caldari State
121
|
Posted - 2012.07.26 08:33:00 -
[887] - Quote
Akita T wrote:Contradicting yourself much too ?
I thought you all think that invention is better than T2 BOP.
First you have to buy Covetor BPO for 20b and then research it (takes a year or two). Successfully inventing Hulk BPC is very rare. When you have that BPC you have to spend billions to get components. |
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
1196
|
Posted - 2012.07.26 08:40:00 -
[888] - Quote
Jorma Morkkis wrote:I thought you all think that invention is better than T2 BOP. Better at some things, worse at others. Better at total potential profit, worse at per-unit profit. I know the concept of "better at this, worse at that" might be too advanced for you to grasp, but do try to keep up.
Quote:First you have to buy Covetor BPO for 20b and then research it (takes a year or two). Successfully inventing Hulk BPC is very rare. When you have that BPC you have to spend billions to get components.
You don't need to research a Covetor BPO at all to invent from it. ME:0 PE:0 T1 BPCs work exactly as well as ME:999 PE:999 T1 BPCs. There is absolutely no difference when you use them in invention. You don't even need to own a Covetor BPO in the first place, you can just as well buy BPCs of it, for slightly less profit. And also buy the damn Covetors themselves. Even with both of those purchased instead of self-made you still turn a damn good profit. Inventing a Hulk BPC is NOT very rare at all. Especially when you use the right decryptors and your skills are halfway decent. And run enough batches to ride out any strings of odd luck. The cost of components is irrelevant as long as you can sell the product for more than it costs to invent and build it. And if there's more profit to be had in making the components, stop bothering with invention and just manufacture and sell components.
If you would actually run ship invention at any halfway respectable level (as opposed to just PRETEND to do it), then you should know all of that already. Well, that, or maybe you're pathetic at calculating your own profits and where they really come from. Or still trolling badly (as in, poorly). http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/User:Akita_T http://eve-search.com/stats/Akita_T T2 BPO poll : https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=114789 |
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy Caldari State
121
|
Posted - 2012.07.26 08:44:00 -
[889] - Quote
Akita T wrote:You don't need to research a Covetor BPO at all to invent from it.
I have to research it because I have to build Covetors. |
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
1196
|
Posted - 2012.07.26 08:46:00 -
[890] - Quote
Jorma Morkkis wrote:I have to research it because I have to build Covetors. Wrong. How about you actually read the next couple of sentences after the one you just quoted.
http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/User:Akita_T http://eve-search.com/stats/Akita_T T2 BPO poll : https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=114789 |
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
1196
|
Posted - 2012.07.26 08:52:00 -
[891] - Quote
Here's a novel concept for you to try and start understanding.
The following are completely separate processes which are either profitable or not, and have varying degrees of profitability. - creating Covetor BPCs - manufacturing Covetors from a BPO - inventing Hulk BPCs from Covetor BPCs - manufacturing Hulks from Hulk BPCs - manufacturing T2 components needed for a Hulk from component BPOs
Each one of those steps is independent of eachother. You don't HAVE to do all of them. You CAN do either one or either combinations of the above, up to all of them. But you don't HAVE to. And you really don't WANT to do any of the above that's not profitable by itself. You can buy all needed ingredients for any step or sell all results of a step via the market or contracts. Some are easier to buy, others are easier to sell. You want to do as much as possible from that one step that's the most profitable of them all for any particular line (manufacture or research). http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/User:Akita_T http://eve-search.com/stats/Akita_T T2 BPO poll : https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=114789 |
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy Caldari State
121
|
Posted - 2012.07.26 08:53:00 -
[892] - Quote
Akita T wrote:Jorma Morkkis wrote:I have to research it because I have to build Covetors. Wrong. How about you actually read the next couple of sentences after the one you just quoted.
But I need T1 version of Hulk, that's Covetor btw, to build one. |
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
1196
|
Posted - 2012.07.26 08:53:00 -
[893] - Quote
Jorma Morkkis wrote:But I need T1 version of Hulk, that's Covetor btw, to build one. Great news for you, dear grand-grand-grand-...-grand-nephew Fry, you can now all of a sudden buy those from the market, as if by magic ! http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/User:Akita_T http://eve-search.com/stats/Akita_T T2 BPO poll : https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=114789 |
Brewlar Kuvakei
Adeptio Gloriae
107
|
Posted - 2012.07.26 08:58:00 -
[894] - Quote
Yeah bpc1 quality does not matter as long as it has full runs for invention. For sure most lines of T2 are not profitable but there is a small amount of items and ships left over for inventors including the entire rig market, yeah.
CCP should just give an invented t2 bpc 100% me and pe that would be an easy fix. Or grow some balls and remove their gifted T2BPO's. Kugutsumen - My signature insures that my post is always read by an ISD or Dev, does yours? |
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
1196
|
Posted - 2012.07.26 09:09:00 -
[895] - Quote
Even giving invented T2 BPCs a base of ME:0/PE:0 and slightly buffing decryptors would already be a huge improvement. There's a TRUCKLOAD more of a difference in profit from ME:-3 to ME:-2 than from ME:2 to ME:3, for instance.
And there were no gifted T2 BPOs that are of even remote relevance that still exist today. The only ones that matter are those actually earned, then passed on though many hands for cold, hard ISK to their current owners. Removing them is not a test of testicular fortitude, but one of utter ignorance towards the emergent situation. Nerfing them into borderline but not quite complete uselessness however, that's what needs balls of steel and is actually desirable. http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/User:Akita_T http://eve-search.com/stats/Akita_T T2 BPO poll : https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=114789 |
shar'ra matcevsovski
Hedion University Amarr Empire
110
|
Posted - 2012.07.26 11:25:00 -
[896] - Quote
Jorma Morkkis wrote:Akita T wrote:Contradicting yourself much too ? First you have to buy Covetor BPO for 20b and then research it (takes a year or two). .
lmao this man has the knowledge...
I sell you one for 15bn that I researched in 3 month, deal? not a troll!
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Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy Caldari State
121
|
Posted - 2012.07.26 12:57:00 -
[897] - Quote
shar'ra matcevsovski wrote:I sell you one for 15bn that I researched in 3 month, deal? not a troll!
Did you research it on NPC station?
No, you didn't. |
Pipa Porto
501
|
Posted - 2012.07.26 13:19:00 -
[898] - Quote
Jorma Morkkis wrote:shar'ra matcevsovski wrote:I sell you one for 15bn that I researched in 3 month, deal? not a troll!
Did you research it on NPC station? No, you didn't.
For the past page, you've been complaining that you can't make a profit when you take the least efficient path to build something POSSIBLE.
Here's how you invent Hulks profitably.
Buy a Stack of Covetor BPCs. Buy your invention materials. Invent all your BPCs. You now know how many Hulks you're gonna build. Buy that many Covetors. Buy the appropriate amount of componants (or build them). Build your Hulks.
PROFIT. EvE: Everyone vs Everyone |
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy Caldari State
121
|
Posted - 2012.07.26 13:29:00 -
[899] - Quote
Not anymore since now everyone knows... |
Pipa Porto
501
|
Posted - 2012.07.26 13:43:00 -
[900] - Quote
Jorma Morkkis wrote:Not anymore since now everyone knows...
Wow.
My god, what have I done. I've shared the ancient secret, passed down over generations, of buying things off the market. Whatever shall I do.
Anyway, when one item becomes unprofitable (or not profitable enough), switch to another item.
Inventors can do that, BPO owners can't. EvE: Everyone vs Everyone |
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