Oh great, now you hate time. Time is so unfair! I mean, loads of people got to pay van Gogh for a painting, or get Babe Ruth to sign a baseball, or stake a claim on the Klondike! It's unacceptable that I didn't have the same opportunity to make the same acquisitions when they were cheap!

You mean free because I knew a dev. Yeah I think getting handed T2BPO in the form of assets/drops/corrupt lottery is unfair, remove T2BPO they are unfair and were seeded unfairly.

1. Which T2 BPOs presently in player hands were granted to a player through unsanctioned GM activity?
2. Which players presently hold those BPOs?
3. Which dev granted them?

Hey, hey, I know, YOU were gifted 20 valuable T2 BPOs, and you should have them removed and your account banned. I know that for a fact because I believe it to be so. No actual proof necessary. And I can't trust an audit by CCP nor any other audit because the data was doctored by CCP to hide it because they gave them to you in the first place. Oh, look how it all fits so nicely ! Yes, you're a cheater, and CCP helped you cheat, and I don't need to prove a damn thing, in fact, absence of proof is proof that you're at fault alongside CCP !

Ridiculous much ?

Your actually denying T20 incident now?

Your actually denying T20 incident now? I can't really prove anything and if I did I'm sure I'd just get banned like those who revelared the original T2BPO corruptuion in fact this whole thread might get deleted.

Remove T2BPO fix eve correct CCP's darkest days or forever live with them as a bad advert for EVE online.

The effort required to prodcue from T2 BPO should reflect it's output ie little effort little reward where as invention should do the same lots of effort lots of reward.

From a gameplay fairness perspective, effort is just ONE of the many factors that needs to be considered when determining an appropriate reward, and you want it to be the ONLY factor (or at least the overwhelmingly majoritary factor) ? WHY EXACTLY ?
Should any other activities that require little effort also be very low reward without exception ? If not, why not ?
How about slow trading ? It sure has hell of a lot of profit for minimal effort, why are you not crying about it being way too profitable ?
Or what about supercap BPO copying ? That's certainly minimal effort, in fact, the effort required is FAR LESS than the effort needed for T2 manufacture (no need to haul anything in any direction, unlike T2 manufacture), but it still pays quite handsomely (at a RoI comparable to or even better than just about any T2 BPO). How come you have no problem with that ?
Hey, how about T1 missions ? Don't they take quite a lot of time regardless of skills and fit but still pay a pittance compared to L4 missions ? How come you're not angry that they don't pay enough compared to the effort you need to put in ?
Besides, what the devil is so much effort in sticking something in a lab for copy, then invent, and then a manufacture slot anyway ? Why is that supposed to pay much more than, oh, say, PI ?
And so on and so forth.

Could it possibly be that one needs to consider many other factors other than just effort ?
Hmm... guess what, you do need to do that !
Now try to guess what other factors come into play when we're talking T2 BPOs.
And again, the way the T2 BPO entered the game is IRRELEVANT for this portion of the discussion.

But they don't hamper invention. That's the point everyone is trying to tell you.

They are irrelevant for most of the items in the game already, which is why there is no reason to remove them.

But seriously, in the time this thread has been going on, I have made 1 billion isk through invention. How much have you made?

Yet again the other factor of originaly owning a T2 BPO was
1) knowing a dev,
2) winning the lottery legit (very slim chance),
3) winning the lottery via knowing the ticket numbers and BPO's numbers,
4) getting a rat spawning a BPO T2 or
5) knowing a dev.

That point is mute 78% of an item line is hampering invention.

No, the point is not moot.
You're not hampering invention PROFITS, you're hampering invention VOLUMES.
BPO owners will always sell at whatever price the competition between INVENTORS puts the pricetag at.
INVENTORS determine the pricetag of an item singlehandedly for ANY items where BPO production is LESS THAN 100% of non-hobby production.

If you want increased inventor VOLUME all you need to do is provide radically cheaper moongoo (by providing alternative methods to obtain advanced mats via player effort instead of territory ownership) AND by lowering invention costs (or at least lowering invention waste), which will result in radically cheaper T2 items, which will result in an explosion of demand, which will result in BPOs becoming a minority of production volume-wise.

Answer me this, for a VERY CONCRETE EXAMPLE : how much do Hulk BPOs bother Hulk inventors ?
Hint : 9 out of 10 Hulks are invented Hulks, and only 1 in 10 is BPO manufactured.
The answer you're looking for is "not at all". Hulk inventors don't give a damn about Hulk BPOs.
Because the freaking demand is freaking high compared to maximum BPO production capacity, that's why.

Inventors only determine price tag on goods with large buy orders for instance hulks, yes. On every other item that does not have massive flow the BPO owner is able to under cut all inventors this, this is wrong and in need of correction either by sipmly removing T2BPO or by increacing invention ME and run levels so that inventors can undercut BPO owners. Decreascing the efficency of the T2BPO would also help placing it firmly below invention where it belongs.

For almost any item where invention is not profitable, even T2 BPO manufacture is barely profitable. For all those items where "T2 BPO owners" noticeably "undercut inventors" the traded volume at that pricetag of the item is so freaking low that NOT EVEN ALL BPO OWNERS can find buyers, dropping the price to derisory levels.
So, yeah, sure, you can totally undercut an inventor for a crap item, and you will get JACK-CRAP PROFITS either way.
If THOSE particular T2 BPOs would be removed, the market price of those items will indeed raise to make invention barely profitable, BUT THAT WOULD LOWER TRADED VOLUMES SO MUCH THAT BARELY ANYBODY WOULD BOTHER INVENTING IT ANYWAY.

Congratulations, removing THOSE particular T2 BPOs has lowered overall T2 BPO owner profit by exactly squat (since there was next to none there anyway), while at the same time practically removing those corresponding items from the market because almost nobody will use them anymore at invention breakeven prices.
GOOD JOB ! (sarcasm)


Again, why do you persist in wanting to nerf whatever stuff is good instead of asking for a boost for the stuff that's bad ?
Why can't you see that boosting the bad instead of nerfing the good is a MUCH better alternative ?
Seriously, what is your problem with that ? Do you even know ?

Buff Invention beyond effortless T2BPO's and I'd be happy.

That point is mute 78% of an item line is hampering invention.

''Start preaching about the alternatives, because you're not getting rid of T2 BPOs.
Complaining you want them removed is many times more futile than me trying to convince you as to why they need nor or will not be removed.''

Increascing invented BPC Material level, productivity level would be good if it made T2BPO's irrelevent in T2 production. This would allow T2BPO's to remain in game as collectors items and not allowing them to hamper invention. CCP is at the perfect time to implement this with the changes to data cores and invention. Invention should out perform T2BPO as it involves a lot more work.

The effort required to prodcue from T2 BPO should reflect it's output ie little effort little reward where as invention should do the same lots of effort lots of reward.

Then shut the frak up about removing T2 BPOs and start saying this ^^^ instead from now on all the freaking time.

Something like that at least has a slight chance of happening (maybe not "beyond T2 BPO", but at least close enough), unlike your original demands, which have no chance of happening.

Then shut the frak up about removing T2 BPOs and start saying this ^^^ instead from now on all the freaking time.

Something like that at least has a slight chance of happening (maybe not "beyond T2 BPO", but at least close enough), unlike your original demands, which have no chance of happening.

Here's what he "knows", in a nutshell:
1. Some people make absurd amounts of money from industry.
2. He makes very little from industry.
3. This could not possibly be because of some personal failing and so must surely be the result of some inherent unfairness in the game.

That wouldn't actually change anything for this guy. This is just Dunning Kruger mixed with a gross delusion of entitlement.

He's obviously a really bad industrialist. You can plainly tell from the content of his posts that, to call this guy's grasp of game mechanics and basic economic principles "tenuous" would be an act of titanic generosity.

Here's what he "knows", in a nutshell:
1. Some people make absurd amounts of money from industry.
2. He makes very little from industry.
3. This could not possibly be because of some personal failing and so must surely be the result of some inherent unfairness in the game.

Simply changing the game mechanics that he doesn't understand to other, different mechanics that he still wouldn't understand will not alter his situation because people who do understand the game mechanics will still be beating him bloody at every turn. All of the above will still be true. Other people will still make absurd amounts of money from industry, he will still make extremely mediocre money from industry, and it will still be inconceivable (to him) that this is a personal failing instead of some systemic problem with the game as a whole.

That point is mute 78% of an item line is hampering invention.

That's it troll and make personal attacks. Please let Akita do the T2BPO supporting as they are the only one on your side that makes any relevent posts regarding T2BPO other than. ''This guys a douche, just because he never got a free T2BPO, why should I give up my one, cry cry cry.''

As stated I have given plenty of reason why T2BPO suck the primary being the unfair way they were seeded/gifted and the fact that they out perform invention which makes zero sense. Invention requires a lot more effort than T2BPO's do and the reward should reflect this.

You do realize that most of the people who think you're an imbecile don't actually own T2 BPOs themselves... right?

I own zero. I owned one once for about 7 hours, because I saw it on contracts at what I concluded to be well below its fair market value. Seven hours later I resold it for a profit that would have been, at a minimum, 3 years worth of actually producing from the print.

I made over 2 billion from production last week, and by "last week" I mean "between Sunday and Wednesday", and I am a far cry from a titan of industry. That is vastly more than most T2 BPOs will produce in a month, and more than many will produce in a year.

Thus, the only conclusion I can possibly reach is that anyone who would cry for so long and so hard about the "unfairness" of such a dismal earner like T2 BPOs must simply be exceedingly bad at industry. I have yet to see any indication to the contrary.

You do realize that most of the people who think you're an imbecile don't actually own T2 BPOs themselves... right?

I own zero. I owned one once for about 7 hours, because I saw it on contracts at what I concluded to be well below its fair market value. Seven hours later I resold it for a profit that would have been, at a minimum, 3 years worth of actually producing from the print.

I made over 2 billion from production last week, and by "last week" I mean "between Sunday and Wednesday", and I am a far cry from a titan of industry. That is vastly more than most T2 BPOs will produce in a month, and more than many will produce in a year.

Thus, the only conclusion I can possibly reach is that anyone would cry for so long and so hard about the "unfairness" of a such a comparatively dismal earner must simply be exceedingly bad at industry. I have yet to see any indication to the contrary.