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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 3 post(s) |
Manos Soban
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Posted - 2008.11.24 08:18:00 -
[1]
Headlines say it all. Tech II rigs are too expensive even for those who have hundrend of millions on their wallets. Make them cheaper, please...
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Rivqua
Caldari Omega Wing R.E.P.O.
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Posted - 2008.11.24 09:29:00 -
[2]
some of them are actually very cheap.
There is no price set on rigs, its totally player controlled.
/Riv
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Xindi Kraid
Cerulean Sky Fire Industries
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Posted - 2008.11.24 09:56:00 -
[3]
Rigs are expensive because salvage is expensive and the mission rats where most of the salvage comes from don't give out the high quality stuff needed for T2 rigs. -Xindi Kraid CSFI lead engineer and shipwright
Improve POS cargo access |
Sir Substance
Minmatar MagiTech Alliance Inc. MagiTech Corp
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Posted - 2008.11.24 09:58:00 -
[4]
t2 rigs require blue salvage, and in a whole 18 months of salvaging, i have found two pieces of blue salvage. maybe im doing it wrong, but blue salvage is bloody rare. - PvPers always say "GB2WoW". the message is that EVE is hard, and people just need to deal with it. wasn't it funny how when nano's started making it hard for *them*, that all went out the window? |
Murina
The Scope
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Posted - 2008.11.24 10:05:00 -
[5]
T2 rigs are made from T2 salvage and T2 salvage comes from T2 ships and that makes it very expensive.
POST NERF PVP SKILLS: "shall we engage?" "hmmm how many ships do they have?" "more than us" "lets not bother then" "WOW great job FC!!!!" "................. |
Astria Tiphareth
Caldari 24th Imperial Crusade
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Posted - 2008.11.24 10:11:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Rivqua There is no price set on rigs, its totally player controlled.
Strictly it's CCP controlled. They control what drops, where, and that in turn determines rarity; supply & demand does the rest. The OP clearly would like drops to increase or be more available. ___ My views may not represent those of my corporation, which is why I never get invited to those diplomatic parties... Environmental Effects
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Jurgen Cartis
Caldari Interstellar Corporation of Exploration
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Posted - 2008.11.24 10:14:00 -
[7]
T2 rigs come from T2 salvage. T2 salvage is a PITA to get. . .
T1 salvage can come from any wreck, and requires Salvaging I to get. T2 salvage requires the wreck of a commander (faction) rat, or a T2 player ship, and requires Salvaging III to get (IV if you want it done anytime soon). Needless to say, these are not common things compared to the T1 ships and common rats that die in their thousands every day and are salvaged by mission runners (or their alts). -------------------- Originally by: Crumplecorn
I prefer launching bathtubs of antimatter at my opponents over pointing an open DVD player at them, even if the bathtubs do miss a lot. So no.
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Saraah Leeown
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Posted - 2008.11.24 10:37:00 -
[8]
Couldn't disagree more. T2 rigs aren't too expensive, if anything everything else is too cheap. T2 stuff costs next to nothing, and it's far too easy to make isk these days.
It used to mean something when you lost a T2 fit ship, but these days you have to lose a crap load of ships for it to really have an effect. Hopefully T3 will fix that, and not become standard like T2 is now
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Sigras
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Posted - 2008.11.24 10:41:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Sigras on 24/11/2008 10:42:12 define too expensive . . . too expensive for you or me maybe, but ask James Kirk if its "too expensive"
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Astria Tiphareth
Caldari 24th Imperial Crusade
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Posted - 2008.11.24 11:14:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Saraah Leeown Couldn't disagree more. T2 rigs aren't too expensive, if anything everything else is too cheap. T2 stuff costs next to nothing, and it's far too easy to make isk these days.
See, this is why perspective, and failure to see other people's, causes so many problems on the forums. Do enlighten us as to what is suddenly 'too easy' compared to ye olde days of yore, whilst taking into account a population explosion and a large number of new ship designs, oh and a change from T2 BPO lottery to invention.
Originally by: Saraah Leeown It used to mean something when you lost a T2 fit ship, but these days you have to lose a crap load of ships for it to really have an effect.
It still does. The distinction is that you've probably been in-game long enough to have made a bundle, or your large alliance makes a bundle, etc.
Try making a new char without alt support and tell me how cheap T2 is. ___ My views may not represent those of my corporation, which is why I never get invited to those diplomatic parties... Environmental Effects
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ramification
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Posted - 2008.11.24 11:19:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Saraah Leeown Couldn't disagree more. T2 rigs aren't too expensive, if anything everything else is too cheap. T2 stuff costs next to nothing, and it's far too easy to make isk these days.
It used to mean something when you lost a T2 fit ship, but these days you have to lose a crap load of ships for it to really have an effect. Hopefully T3 will fix that, and not become standard like T2 is now
T2 Rigs<>T2 modules. Stupid post is stupid.
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Jurgen Cartis
Caldari Interstellar Corporation of Exploration
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Posted - 2008.11.25 09:12:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Jurgen Cartis on 25/11/2008 09:13:21
Originally by: Astria Tiphareth
Originally by: Saraah Leeown Couldn't disagree more. T2 rigs aren't too expensive, if anything everything else is too cheap. T2 stuff costs next to nothing, and it's far too easy to make isk these days.
See, this is why perspective, and failure to see other people's, causes so many problems on the forums. Do enlighten us as to what is suddenly 'too easy' compared to ye olde days of yore, whilst taking into account a population explosion and a large number of new ship designs, oh and a change from T2 BPO lottery to invention.
Perspective eh, here's mine. A T2 fit Cruiser can be had for under 20 million, that's one hour of L4 grinding in a good setup. After insurance, it's even cheaper. When invention hit TQ, that might get you two Cap Recharger IIs. Back then, the vast majority of the ISK in a T2 fit ship was in the mods, now it's in the ship itself, which is insurable.
Why is isk so easy to get these days? There are plenty of reasons, pathways to money that didn't exist years ago. Salvaging, Invention, Exploration. Salvaging in particular can be done by anyone, and a single ATB will net you a quarter of a million, which will double the reward of an L1 mission right there. The rigs that salvage makes in turn make ships stronger, and give more room for error in tougher missions (which I should add, have been made easier in the past 2 years). The LP store has made implants easily available and faction gear is the new T2. I've seen two month old characters flying Navythrons, and I'm sure he wasn't an alt. His DPS output was lacking, but that was a 350 million ISK ship back then (a few months ago).
Any newbie can start making ISK immediately, everyone starts with 800k SP, that was put in about 6 months before you started, before that most players started with about 30,000 SP.
T2 rigs are not like other T2 gear, T1 rigs are the closest equivalent (though I think of them as being closer to faction-level). T2 rigs are more appropriately compared to faction gear, if not low-end Deadspace gear. People will T2 fit a ship before they rig it, and usually use faction before they even consider T2 rigs. Remember, there is nothing beyond T2 rigs for those slots. They should be rare and special. If you want them cheaper, increase the supply of the component parts or go into the business yourself.
Originally by: Astria Tiphareth
Originally by: Saraah Leeown It used to mean something when you lost a T2 fit ship, but these days you have to lose a crap load of ships for it to really have an effect.
It still does. The distinction is that you've probably been in-game long enough to have made a bundle, or your large alliance makes a bundle, etc.
Try making a new char without alt support and tell me how cheap T2 is.
You're old enough to have made a bundle too. You've been in game a year, if you can't make ISK now, you're doing it wrong.
/rant off
-------------------- Originally by: Crumplecorn
I prefer launching bathtubs of antimatter at my opponents over pointing an open DVD player at them, even if the bathtubs do miss a lot. So no.
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Ackuula
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Posted - 2008.11.25 11:40:00 -
[13]
It would be nice if they had some BPO's that let you create the components yourself out of basic minerals and/or advanced materials, or be able to create the T2 salvage items from the T1 varients.
I mean after all, where did those salvaged items come from in the first place?
A large portion of Eve's industrial too so I'm not holdingg my breath on this one.
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ollobrains2
Gallente New Eve Order Holdings
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Posted - 2008.11.25 13:15:00 -
[14]
faction rats drop em. Perhaps they could be dropped more often in 0.0 the other source could be increased is radar and mag sites where u have to hack
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Dantes Revenge
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.11.25 13:32:00 -
[15]
True. T2 salvage is extremely rare and I have only found three since the salvaging was introduced.
It would be nice to be able to repair T1 salvage using minerals and a new set of skills. Still make it expensive to repair them but at least it would mean that some people could build up a few over time. They could either sell them for a respectable profit or use them to build their own T2 rigs. Paying out millions in one hit is hard paying smaller amounts to repair T1 salvage is possible, even if it costs just as much when you total it all up.
Build cost ratio would remain the same but T2 rigs would actually be seen on the market. I think I've seen maybe 20 on the market in total over the last year in Tash-Murkon. Even if you had the isk to buy one, it's rare that you'll find the one you want anyway.
-- There's a simple difference between kinky and perverted. Kinky is using a feather to get her in the mood. Perverted is using the whole chicken. All this has happened before and will happen again |
Daevonar
Minmatar Starfish Operating Syndicate
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Posted - 2008.11.25 13:47:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Daevonar on 25/11/2008 13:49:38 To the majority of folk...
I remember when I was young.... the grass was greener, twas all just fields as far as the eye can see... you young folks don't know how hard it was back then, back then you had to work 25 hours a day, live off a husk of bread a day, maybe a scrap of prok rind as a treat on a sunday.
Yes, the hard life really made you appreciate things back then, which brings me to another point, back then we respected our elders, not like you young 'uns today....... ... .. .
For heavens sake, worlds change, economies change, life goes on, things are never the same, perspective alters, learn to live for the unexpected, dont dwell on how it used to be.
... and to the OP, you might like to explain why you think greater availability is beneficial... otherwise it just sounds ike envy that you can't afford them right now... like me :( Dae.
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Astria Tiphareth
Caldari 24th Imperial Crusade
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Posted - 2008.11.25 14:06:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Astria Tiphareth on 25/11/2008 14:07:03
Originally by: Jurgen Cartis Some ranting...
You're old enough to have made a bundle too. You've been in game a year, if you can't make ISK now, you're doing it wrong.
/rant off
I'm glad you put the rant bit, because otherwise I might have mistaken you for actually taking what I said as personally applying to me and being serious about it, rather than the correct approach for Features and Ideas, which is to ask the question 'what does this do for the entire game, including new players?'. Whether I personally have money or not is irrelevant; that I can appreciate the point of view of a new player and the previous poster apparently could not is the aspect I was chastising about.
As to the figures, sure, things are cheaper now. Your entire rant was about how things are cheaper, which I already knew. The question I asked was why is it too easy. Why is this proliferation a bad thing? You failed to answer that.
As to T2 rigs, as I already said at the start, it depends where CCP want to take rigs. Do they want a flexible system available to the majority, or a really serious loss and therefore available only to the very rich. The answer to that determines whether the OP's idea is a good one.
/rant Next time read what I damn well wrote before flaming me personally. /rant off ___ My views may not represent those of my corporation, which is why I never get invited to those diplomatic parties... Environmental Effects
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chaotic pandemonium
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Posted - 2008.11.25 14:11:00 -
[18]
I will agree that t2 can be expensive for those of us who may not have the time to grind but have chosen the path of mission running or mining. There are ways to make money but I havent really found a good way to make a large amount of profit. The reason that they are priced as they are is that its not unreachable for those of us who maybe havent found a way to make large sums of money or have time to grind but rewards those who have worked hard for it. In the case of rigs yes tech two is helpful but you can still have a fighting chance even if you only have tech 1. Strategy or groups can also make the difference. Just remember there is always several ways of doing one thing.
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CCP Chronotis
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Posted - 2008.11.25 14:19:00 -
[19]
There are a few changes in the pipes which help in this regard. Firstly we want to introduce size variant rigs and secondly salvage conversion so some quantity of broken salvage can be converted to intact T2 salvage. Beyond that the spring expansion will have rather a lot of content in it so it would not be unimaginable that other changes will be made there as well but certainly salvage conversion is something we have wanted for a long time.
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Jason Edwards
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Posted - 2008.11.25 22:20:00 -
[20]
Originally by: CCP Chronotis There are a few changes in the pipes which help in this regard. Firstly we want to introduce size variant rigs and secondly salvage conversion so some quantity of broken salvage can be converted to intact T2 salvage. Beyond that the spring expansion will have rather a lot of content in it so it would not be unimaginable that other changes will be made there as well but certainly salvage conversion is something we have wanted for a long time.
argg...
So now you want to boost high sec missions and hurt 0.0?
Or is this some sort of buff to high sec missions in high sec to bring actual value to them as you plan to utterly destroy missions?
I honestly cant think of any other reasons... false dichotomy aside... that's pretty epic gay.
Here is how you use the "broken salvage" YOU MAKE DRONE RIGS AND MINING RIGS USING THEM. So easy my dumbass self can see it.
Tons of people want real drone rigs and mining rigs. ------------------------ To make a megathron from scratch, you must first invent the eve universe. |
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Jurgen Cartis
Caldari Interstellar Corporation of Exploration
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Posted - 2008.11.26 00:00:00 -
[21]
Edited by: Jurgen Cartis on 26/11/2008 00:02:07
Originally by: Astria Tiphareth <stuff>
Is proliferation a bad thing? No, cheap, available T2 levels the playing field nicely. Anyone can afford T2 and cheap, insurable T1 ships. However, I don't want to see proliferation like that beyond current levels. T1 rigs are usually used on larger ships these days, though sized rigs may change that. That I would not consider a bad thing, as it doesn't make sense to put 15m rigs on a 200k frigate. However, I would consider T2 rigs becoming cost effective for most ships a bad thing.
T2 rigs being fit like T1 rigs are now would make them pretty much required for high-end PvP fits, which is just another set of skills you suddenly really want to be competitive, like Heat is now. In the current market, a T2 rigged ship is probably sporting some Deadspace or Officer mods, which I think most people can agree should not be commonplace. Before patch, it was cheaper to use a Gistii B MWD on an interceptor than it was to put a Polycarbon rig on it, an extreme example to be sure, but this kind of pricing is why I consider T1 rigs to be comparable to mild faction fits.
T2 rigs are uncommon and therefore special, and I believe some things in Eve should be uncommon. Some things were never meant to be cost effective. T2 rigs are one of them.
Originally by: Astria Tiphareth in another thread
Harsh? Yes, but I'm sick and tired of reading this same suggestion dressed up in different ways over and over again, so apologies if I am more cutting than usual.
Reasons similar to that are why I went off on you. It wasn't even aimed at you, you just had the meatiest post in the thread and it got morphed to fit the available target. Should have hit Close Tab instead of Post Reply, but I didn't. Respect for not escalating that further. -------------------- Originally by: Crumplecorn
I prefer launching bathtubs of antimatter at my opponents over pointing an open DVD player at them, even if the bathtubs do miss a lot. So no.
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Salpad
Caldari Carebears with Attitude
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Posted - 2008.11.26 00:46:00 -
[22]
Originally by: CCP Chronotis Firstly we want to introduce size variant rigs and secondly
I'm just sitting here in my corner, drooling quietly. I so want reasonably-priced small rigs so that I can pimp my frigates.
-- Salpad |
Dantes Revenge
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.11.26 01:04:00 -
[23]
To all those complaining about impending price drops etc. It would be reasonable to presume that repairing T1 salvage and creating the rigs with them would work out almost as expensive as making the rigs out of salvaged T2 components currently is.
One of the biggest problems with T2 rigs is the rarity rather than the price. Considering the bonuses you get from them, they're on a par with the top end hardwire implants.
-- There's a simple difference between kinky and perverted. Kinky is using a feather to get her in the mood. Perverted is using the whole chicken. All this has happened before and will happen again |
Jason Edwards
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Posted - 2008.11.26 01:16:00 -
[24]
Quote: T1 rigs are usually used on larger ships these days, though sized rigs may change that. That I would not consider a bad thing, as it doesn't make sense to put 15m rigs on a 200k frigate. However, I would consider T2 rigs becoming cost effective for most ships a bad thing.
different rig sizes... aka changing the # of salvage parts required to build is a great thing.
destroying the value of t2 salvage hurts very much so.
Quote: T2 rigs are uncommon and therefore special, and I believe some things in Eve should be uncommon. Some things were never meant to be cost effective. T2 rigs are one of them.
Except this will lead to an overall increase of t1 salvage. With fairly minimal drop in price of the t2 salvage.
Currently it's fairly hard and rare to get t2 salvage. Pretty much with lowsec-0.0 risk.
t1 salvage on the otherhand is pretty damn common and you get lots of it from high sec missions. Even if it's 100:1 for t2... it'll still be more cost effective. ------------------------ To make a megathron from scratch, you must first invent the eve universe. |
Tarron Sarek
Gallente Biotronics Inc. Alternative Realities
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Posted - 2008.11.26 01:36:00 -
[25]
Originally by: CCP Chronotis There are a few changes in the pipes which help in this regard. Firstly we want to introduce size variant rigs and secondly salvage conversion so some quantity of broken salvage can be converted to intact T2 salvage. Beyond that the spring expansion will have rather a lot of content in it so it would not be unimaginable that other changes will be made there as well but certainly salvage conversion is something we have wanted for a long time.
Are there any plans on reviewing all the rigs with regard to materials used (cost), bonuses/penalties and popularity? I would really like to see them a bit more balanced. Having some salvage parts that go for ~200 ISK and others that go for ~200k ISK speaks volumes. There's definitely a lot of room for improvement, and since rigs were meant to increase variety and (hopefully) not stacked bonuses, that room should be used.
___________________________________
Balance is power, guard hide it well
"Ceterum censeo Polycarbonem esse delendam" |
Abrazzar
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Posted - 2008.11.26 19:17:00 -
[26]
In my humble opinion salvaging and rigs should be reworked when T1 components come out. Then salvaging will yield T1 or T2 construction components instead of the current salvage pieces and rigs are built out of those components.
Granted, it'd nerf the salvaging mini-profession but it make much more sense in regards to what rigs are and what they are made out of. I mean, why not just build a ship and disassemble it for the 'salvage' parts needed for rigs? With T1 components it becomes even more unreasonable that you can't do this.
Salvaging would still be a profitable profession, just no longer so separated from all other production types. Existing Salvage can be transformed into appropriate amounts of fitting components with a script running over the database during the patch.
-------- Ideas for: Mining
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Letifer Deus
A Astroid Belt Lotto Syndicate
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Posted - 2008.11.28 06:39:00 -
[27]
Edited by: Letifer Deus on 28/11/2008 06:41:44
Originally by: Jurgen Cartis T2 rigs are uncommon and therefore special, and I believe some things in Eve should be uncommon. Some things were never meant to be cost effective. T2 rigs are one of them.
I believe T2 rigs could still achieve this at 2.5-3x the T1 price. That would put a T2 trimark at around 45-54 mil a pop, which would be an 80-110 mil increase in cost for what amounts to a 10% increase in EHP on my triple trimark blasterthron. AKA I'm pretty sure T2 rigs would still be quite rare and special. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "Brought to you by the letter ARRR!" |
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CCP Applebabe
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Posted - 2008.11.28 09:16:00 -
[28]
Moved to GD channel.
Applebabe Community Representative CCP Games, EVE Online Email / Netfang |
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Tippia
Caldari Raddick Explorations BlackWater.
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Posted - 2008.11.28 09:21:00 -
[29]
Rare? Bah! Just sit outside Jita 4-4 with a hot salvager…
No sig for me, thankyouverymuch. |
Blane Xero
Amarr The Firestorm Cartel
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Posted - 2008.11.28 09:24:00 -
[30]
Originally by: CCP Applebabe Moved to GD channel.
Sorry but shouldnt this be in Ships & Modules?
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