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Toad Vine
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Posted - 2008.11.26 03:54:00 -
[1]
I am new to Eve and am concentrating on mining right now. Twice I have jetted my ore in a container and then have begun filling it up only to have a ship show up flash red and then my can goes pffft! At the same time a new can appears in the sky. I can't tell if my can was shot at or emptied and then it self-destructed. Is this a form of can-tipping? If so I have an axe to grind eventually with these people.
Any information is appreciated.
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Master Entreri
Wildcat Federation ALLIANCE UNKNOWN
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Posted - 2008.11.26 04:35:00 -
[2]
that would be can flipping.
He is hoping you will be dumb enough to take your ore out of the can, giving him the right to shoot you.
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Toshiro GreyHawk
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Posted - 2008.11.26 06:00:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Master Entreri that would be can flipping.
He is hoping you will be dumb enough to take your ore out of the can, giving him the right to shoot you.
Or that you will go get a combat ship and come back and shoot him - which also gives him the right to blow you up.
Mostly, these guys do not want your ore. They want you to try and do something about it so that they have the right to blow you up without themselves being blown up by Concord.
Concord gives you the right to defend yourself against being robbed, allowing you to attack the robber without them blowing you up for it. The thing is, most of these guys only pic on people they already know they can beat. He looks at your info, sizes you up and decides he can take you. If you oblige him by shooting at him. Faction Schools Orbiting vs. Kiting |
Toad Vine
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Posted - 2008.11.26 13:40:00 -
[4]
Thanks for the answers.
It seems to me that the people that do this type of activity really aren't all that skilled at ship combat and are like the typical coward that looks for a fight they can't possibly lose.
I guess, for now, I will simply mine the ore until my hold is full and then run it back to the station. I am not sure I was saving any time with the first method and by doing it one ship load at a time I definitely avoid this type of annoyance.
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Tzar'rim
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Posted - 2008.11.26 14:12:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Toad Vine Thanks for the answers.
It seems to me that the people that do this type of activity really aren't all that skilled at ship combat and are like the typical coward that looks for a fight they can't possibly lose.
You'd be wrong in assuming that, well actually to a point you're correct ofcourse but your premise is wrong. EVE is anarchy, and everyone is trying to gain influence, power and wealth. High sec piracy is no different.
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Oregin
Rage Of Fury Order of the Black Dragons
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Posted - 2008.11.26 14:15:00 -
[6]
And personally, I find can-flipping a bit of a laugh rather than simply an 'all i can actually manage' form of piracy. I wouldn't assume that can-flippers are simply care-bear pirates.
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Billy Sastard
Amarr Life. Universe. Everything.
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Posted - 2008.11.26 15:30:00 -
[7]
Sometimes, usually between 'serious' operations, experienced 'pirates' enjoy the act of flipping a can or two in hopes to get a little action. It may seem like we are picking on the little guys, but really, the stuff from your ship sells for ISK like the stuff from anyone elses, and of course you must know by now that most pirate vessels run on tears, which at times are in short supply.
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Phaige
Minmatar Reaver Construction Services
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Posted - 2008.11.26 17:01:00 -
[8]
My suggestion would be to add Corp Tickers to your overview. Its in Overview settings > Columns I believe. That way you can see if the tag on the new can matches him or not.
This also helps for when flippers wait for you to go away an haul before flipping it, hoping you won't check it before trying to move ore to your hauler. -----------------------------------------------
You may be a King or a little Street Sweeper, but sooner or later you dance wi' de' Reaper! |
Toad Vine
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Posted - 2008.11.26 21:40:00 -
[9]
Thanks again for all the input. Just so I have it correct, when someone flips the ore from my container to theirs that gives me the right to shoot them (regardless of the fact that I might get my ass handed to me) without Concord caring. If I get mad and take it back the reverse is true. So like the first reply to my question stated, the ship that took my ore was just telling me, "What are you going to do about it?"
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Phaige
Minmatar Reaver Construction Services
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Posted - 2008.11.26 22:23:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Toad Vine Thanks again for all the input. Just so I have it correct, when someone flips the ore from my container to theirs that gives me the right to shoot them (regardless of the fact that I might get my ass handed to me) without Concord caring. If I get mad and take it back the reverse is true. So like the first reply to my question stated, the ship that took my ore was just telling me, "What are you going to do about it?"
Basically -----------------------------------------------
You may be a King or a little Street Sweeper, but sooner or later you dance wi' de' Reaper! |
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Sir Substance
Minmatar MagiTech Alliance Inc. MagiTech Corp
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Posted - 2008.11.27 00:22:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Sir Substance on 27/11/2008 00:23:02
Originally by: Toad Vine Thanks again for all the input. Just so I have it correct, when someone flips the ore from my container to theirs that gives me the right to shoot them (regardless of the fact that I might get my ass handed to me) without Concord caring. If I get mad and take it back the reverse is true. So like the first reply to my question stated, the ship that took my ore was just telling me, "What are you going to do about it?"
more or less.
there are two ways you can avoid can flipping.
the most basic is bleedingly obvious. dont can mine. shuttle run.
the second is a shade more advanced. in any system of security .7 or below, you can anchor secure cans. get anchoring skill lvl 1, and buy some gient secure cargo containers.
take them to your favorate mining spots, and find a location 5km from anything else.
right click->launch for self once it appears in space next to you, right click it again and go anchor, this takes a minute. when the can anchors, the lights on the outside go form red to green(or is it the other way round? :S), and the icon on the can gets a triangle above it.
anchoring prevents anyone from scooping it into their hold.
then, you need to set a password.
right click it again, and go configure, and set a password. now, you have a 4,900m3 can that only someone knowing the password can access. not even hacking modules can bypass can security (hackers are for other things). - PvPers always say "GB2WoW". the message is that EVE is hard, and people just need to deal with it. wasn't it funny how when nano's started making it hard for *them*, that all went out the window? |
Tzar'rim
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Posted - 2008.11.27 00:27:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Toad Vine Thanks again for all the input. Just so I have it correct, when someone flips the ore from my container to theirs that gives me the right to shoot them (regardless of the fact that I might get my ass handed to me) without Concord caring. If I get mad and take it back the reverse is true. So like the first reply to my question stated, the ship that took my ore was just telling me, "What are you going to do about it?"
Yes almost, but it mainly depends on who 'asks' it. In my case that would be "are you going to be stupid?". Not neccesarily because I'll blow you up 100% of the time but you're giving me entertainment with the possible lure of profit and lulz.
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Ancy Denaries
Caldari Solaris Operations
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Posted - 2008.11.27 12:22:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Tzar'rim
Originally by: Toad Vine Thanks again for all the input. Just so I have it correct, when someone flips the ore from my container to theirs that gives me the right to shoot them (regardless of the fact that I might get my ass handed to me) without Concord caring. If I get mad and take it back the reverse is true. So like the first reply to my question stated, the ship that took my ore was just telling me, "What are you going to do about it?"
Yes almost, but it mainly depends on who 'asks' it. In my case that would be "are you going to be stupid?". Not neccesarily because I'll blow you up 100% of the time but you're giving me entertainment with the possible lure of profit and lulz.
Completely unrelated, but we need more pirates like Tzar'rim. People that aren't dip****s in real life, but have a sane look on things and that are helpful and polite...unless you happen to be in his sights of course
Balance is important, but you will always adapt to changing circumstances and you don't whine about stuff you can't change. |
Toad Vine
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Posted - 2008.11.27 15:21:00 -
[14]
Thanks again to all for the infromation. I will shuttle run until I can justify/skill train for secure cans. Love this game.
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Gregor Vernof
Minmatar Toddlers Throwing Tantrums
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Posted - 2008.11.28 09:24:00 -
[15]
The Giant secure method of can mining will limit you to 3,900 m3 per can and restrict your ease of moving around the belt. Basically this is only slightly better (although I'm not completely sure about that) that "cargohold mining".
Another common form of "jetcan mining" is the "buddy" or Alt hauler method. Of course the "Buddy" system would be more inline to the MMO experience, but is not always available. Basically you are mining and a buddy/alt is in an Industrial tagging along with you ready to pick up you ore as soon as you drop it. Once the Industrial is full they run off to a station to drop it off and the come back and repeat the process.
Whether you drop a new can each time or have a jetcan out there with one piece of some cheap item (or bookmark) keeping it open is up to you. There is inherent risk in either choice, as there is in all activities of EVE other than just sitting in a station spinning your ship.
As for the misconception that all can-flippers are cowardly asses out to spoil your game that just couldn't be further from the truth. There are many types of people that can-flip and varied reasons for there actions.
One type is a rarer, and mostly "RP" type of "can-flipper" out there, the Ore Thief. We ARE interested in your ore and probably have a hauler buddy or alt of our own ready to pick up our newly acquired ore. For whatever reason we are more interested in you mining for us regardless of the fact we could probably do it more efficiently ourselves... plus there the hope of a little yarring pewpew on the side too.
It is up to you to assess the situation and decide if you want your ore and if you can defend that decision. Just remember to only fly into combat with something you can afford to lose. You can be very effective with a fully T1 loaded setup in the right circumstances, but it is up to you to figure out when those are. If you are considering defending your ore then I highly recommend checking out a site like Battleclinic you help and advice of suitable loadouts.
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