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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 3 post(s) |
supersexysucker
Uber Awesome Fantastico Awesomeness Group
10
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Posted - 2011.09.12 19:07:00 -
[61] - Quote
easy sum up, it was too much work to bullsh-ít the answer to every question... so we will not be doing it.
Hey at least you aint bullsh-ítting us all. |
Damassys Kadesh
Eternal Damnation of the Woken Mind
21
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Posted - 2011.09.13 01:02:00 -
[62] - Quote
dgastuffz wrote:"We answered 347 questions out of the roughly 1100 we received,"
and how many answered about FW i would say you fail
This is my problem too. I'm glad that there has been a response to the small outcry from people wanting to know what happened to the answering, but even though there was an acknowledgement to how many FW questions were asked, nothing FW-related got addressed in those 347 answers.
Here is the post that can be found on page 2 of the existing answers:
Quote:
CCP Manifest
C C PPosted - 2011.05.12 17:37:00 - [35]
****************************** FACTIONAL WARFARE STUFF
There were many questions. Many. I will be working with Soundwave to get answers for you (not a new effort), yet there will be a slight delay though as right now he's headed to a player meetup in Moscow with CCP Daishi, Molock and Spitfire. Please bear with us. ******************************
|
Leon Razor
Measure Zero
5
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Posted - 2011.09.13 01:10:00 -
[63] - Quote
Not surprising to me, but I'm not upset. I really like this idea and the results I saw. With everyone complaining that "the dev's don't work on eve anymore" and that "the dev's never talk to us", a complete success with the answer everything thread would result in solving the latter and exacerbating the former. Something like this is very time consuming for the devs and needs to have reasonable goals with controlled time commitments.
Focused topics is not a bad idea, but if this is the approach you take, please also have some open topics so people get a chance to ask questions you never expected. |
Desert Ice78
Gryphon River Industries Bloodbound.
14
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Posted - 2011.09.13 01:44:00 -
[64] - Quote
If nothing else CCP Guard, this made me smile, in a sad faced sort of way.
It does take long enough, but worth it in then end. Too bad and better luck next time.... I am a Pod Pilot:
http://dl.eve-files.com/media/1109/Hostile-Takeover-by-Marek-Okon[1].jpg
|
Jesus Rambo
Friendship is Magic The Laughing Men
2
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Posted - 2011.09.13 02:10:00 -
[65] - Quote
Just wanted to say guys, thanks for the apology. Even if you weren't able to answer every question, thank you for answering those that you did, and thank you for acknowledging your shortcoming.
It'd be nice if we could see a lot more of this attitude from CCP in general :) Great work Guard! |
Mr LaForge
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
100
|
Posted - 2011.09.13 02:30:00 -
[66] - Quote
How about a 10 question answered a week devblog? At least then we'll have something to look forward to consistently. |
Diomedes Calypso
Aetolian Armada
27
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Posted - 2011.09.13 02:36:00 -
[67] - Quote
Like many other's, I appreciate the tone and words you used in letting us know what the situation is. I feel like I was talked to assuming that I was an intelligent adult and being addressed by a similar co-worker . Of course there is an element of bs any time something promised can't' be delivered, especially when third parties are involved but enough of a picture was painted that I can get a picture of the complexities.
Also, I did thoroughly enjoy the answers to many of the 300 questions answered even those on subjects I really wasn't terribly interested in intitially.
I'm curious more about process than results.. like to know more about the history behind a decision than the final answer. A number of answers went that direction which was a lot of fun for me.
I had a couple questions of mine regarding internal process with drop decisions and the actual programming load changes in ship speed or damage attributes would take.. but.. I guess they'll wait.
Now.. given this intelligent crowd (well at least 1 out of 5 qualify so that still means at least hundreds in the smart-boat) and a crowd thats willing to roll up their sleaves and do some work,, I'm sure someone is going to make a list of the questions answered and a list of those un-answered.
I'm not sure there was a pattern at all... but the part of me that relishes thinking about process and motivation looks forward to knowing which types of questions were difficult to answer.. which ones perhaps were avoided....but thats my idea of fun!
Thanks to the developers for the many answered questions.
Thaks to you for a respectful explanation. |
Mehrdad Kor-Azor
Viziam Amarr Empire
72
|
Posted - 2011.09.13 02:39:00 -
[68] - Quote
Richard Aiel wrote: Funny thing about this post perfectly shows why the players truely dont want transparency. They give us transparency, we give them flames lol
There are only flames because the things revealed in this transparency are making people cranky. |
Har Harrison
Amarrian Retribution
63
|
Posted - 2011.09.13 02:47:00 -
[69] - Quote
Of the 1/3 that were answered, time was spent on being giving a wise crack answer to non-Eve related questions, instead of answering the serious game content related ones. And off all the questions that were asked, (as stated above) - not one FW question was answered - we were promised a more considered response from Soundwave. So where is that dev blog CCP???
Fix Faction Warfare CCP!!! |
Fon Revedhort
Monks of War DarkSide.
16
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Posted - 2011.09.13 04:13:00 -
[70] - Quote
Many replies were just full of fail anyway.
I guess I should blame CCP Greyscale personally, but anyway, what's the point in starting such a thread when you don't really feel like giving proper answers? There's no reason to make a single dev answer each and every question of any given player, cause it may easily result in dev talking about something he doesn't have a clue on.
It was our fault, too, to abuse your invitation and start asking as many questions as we could come up with, but still you have to realize that a dialog like the one below doesn't make any sense whatsoever and is just a waste of time for both the player and the dev.
- Why do you think cruise missiles need that huge range? They clearly lack DPS and no one needs to shoot missiles up to 250 km - I don't actually have a good answer for this. It may well be "because they've always been long-range"...
or:
- Why don't you fix NH's powergrid issue? Everyone agrees it's broken. - NH balance - is the Nighthawk actually underpowered? I see people saying that there's things that they'd like to be able to do but can't due to grid issues, but is this driven by "the NH is really underpowered/under-used compared to other ships in its class because of this grid issue"?
Come on - that was among the worst trolling attempts (deliberate or not) I've ever seen. This is definitely NOT the way you should answer the questions. Either adress them thoroughly or skip altogether or just pass to another dev.
Thanks for giving us a honest reply and I really appreciate all the efforts you put into it, but please do note my words for the next time.
No need to reinforce our feeling on you not playing your own game 2008, CCP Zulu(park): "command ships are fine as is" 2011, CCP Greyscale: "is the Nighthawk actually underpowered?" Nice progress, guys. |
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Fawcks
Avoid and Evade Epsilon Shimmy Alliance
101
|
Posted - 2011.09.13 04:14:00 -
[71] - Quote
I only have one question.
How do I win Eve? |
cpu939
Volatile Nature White Noise.
4
|
Posted - 2011.09.13 06:54:00 -
[72] - Quote
1st of thanks for letting us know and not just over looking it.
tbh i'm not supprised by this.
new corp moto ccp 2011 letting customer down time and again |
Ciar Meara
Virtus Vindice
196
|
Posted - 2011.09.13 07:38:00 -
[73] - Quote
Katrina Bekers wrote:Thank you, CCP Guard, for your straight honesty.
You knew you'd probably be "burned at the stake" (yes, CCP Soundwave, I'm looking at you!), and still had the guts to undock knowing that the station was heavily bubbled and camped with angry hostiles.
It's said that optimists see the glass half full, the pessimists see it half empty, and the engineers know the glass is twice the size it needs to be.
So, rather than 2/3 failure (or 1/3 success), I'd rather think the task completion was beyond your control.
In this day and age, CCP has not (only) a problem of success/failure ratio. We came to expect glorious failures from you guys - from boot.ini's to melting GPUs. The wondering on next patch isn't "it will break something?" anymore, but rather "I will be able to play decently again how many weeks after the next coding disaster?". In a wicked way, it's even amusing.
And yet, CCP has not entirely understood that the technical prowess (rather, its absence!) or promise to Deliver Excellence (buzzword detector is going off-scale!) are not their main concern. Their main concern SHOULD be the loss of trust and the abysmal job on communicating with your playerbase.
CCP Guard faced the forum squarely in the eyes, and came out admitting failure to deliver: the fate of that answers thread is a sad one, and I mourn the answers I won't get to my (many! maybe too many!) questions. Yet, the appreciation of his desire to communicate and not childishly hide behind a finger is what is largely appreciated by most posters.
There is a lesson in this thread. I dearly hope it's learned.
I stand behind this and will also like guard for his honesty. - [img]http://go-dl1.eve-files.com/media/corp/janus/ceosig.jpg[/img] [yellow]English only please. Zymurgist[/yellow] |
Cyniac
Twilight Star Rangers Black Thorne Alliance
30
|
Posted - 2011.09.13 08:24:00 -
[74] - Quote
I always did think that you were hopelessly optimistic on this initiative but being a bit of an optimist myself I can relate.
A few thoughts on how things played out -
Only a subset of the questions were answered, it's not just the number of questions which was limited - it was also some topics got answered and some did not. This leads to the impression that some subjects are being avoided by CCP (FW comes to mind).
Also need a kind of mechanism to consolidate the questions - many times you have the same question over and over.
Find the key questions - answer those. People will be happy (er).
Better luck next time and thanks for the heads up. |
Talia Nachtigall
Insanely Twisted
6
|
Posted - 2011.09.13 10:57:00 -
[75] - Quote
Pak Narhoo wrote:/shakes head, crawls away.
(Edit had to)
Well that's great, that's just ****in' great, man. Now what the **** are we supposed to do? We're in some real pretty **** now man...
Aliens reference just saved this thread. Righteous.
Don't pray for my soul. ;) |
Fawcks
Avoid and Evade Epsilon Shimmy Alliance
101
|
Posted - 2011.09.13 11:16:00 -
[76] - Quote
Talia Nachtigall wrote:Pak Narhoo wrote:/shakes head, crawls away.
(Edit had to)
Well that's great, that's just ****in' great, man. Now what the **** are we supposed to do? We're in some real pretty **** now man... Aliens reference just saved this thread. Righteous. Man, I'm gonna go find that post and give that person a +1. Aliens is the ****. |
Fawcks
Avoid and Evade Epsilon Shimmy Alliance
101
|
Posted - 2011.09.13 11:19:00 -
[77] - Quote
CCP Guard wrote:Friends,
You all remember the GÇPDevs answer everything threadGÇ£ (I know for a fact that some of you do at least) that we started this spring, with the intention of GÇô as the title subtly hints at - answering every question therein.
As a brand new Community Developer, I started this project with the full intention of pushing it through no matter what. Then summer came with the final Incarna sprints, the Incarna launch, and all that followed. The summer period was extremely hard in terms of securing any GÇPextraGÇ£ time from developers to spend on answering questions from the thread, and itGÇÿs not going to get any easier. Answering this amount of questions publicly takes a lot longer than many would expect because often you get second thoughts about details that you then want to research, or you want to polish the wording so it-¦s clear and understandable for what you intend it to convey.
Long story short, I grossly understimated the time it would take to finish answering all these questions, and overestimated the man hours I would be able to secure. And I learned a few valuable lessons along the way. One of them being never to use the word GÇPpromiseGÇ£ unless you KNOW the result.
It is time to step up and admit defeat and apologize - we will not be moving this thread over from the old forums. Statistically speaking the project was two thirds of a failure. We answered 347 questions out of the roughly 1100 we received, despite repeated attempts at securing manpower. I can only hope that the questions we did answer made all of this at least somewhat worth it for some of you.
WeGÇÿll go back to the drawing board and figure out different ways to do similar things in the future. To those that took part, waited, and never got what they came for, I humbly offer my most sincere apologies.
-CCP Guard
Even though I didn't know about whatever answer thread you are talking about until coming to this one, I am now angry at you forever. Now give me some free in-game crap. PLACATE ME! :/ |
Pr1ncess Alia
Perkone Caldari State
33
|
Posted - 2011.09.13 11:21:00 -
[78] - Quote
Fawcks wrote:I only have one question.
How do I win Eve?
The same way you win Global Thermonuclear War. |
Fawcks
Avoid and Evade Epsilon Shimmy Alliance
101
|
Posted - 2011.09.13 11:34:00 -
[79] - Quote
Pr1ncess Alia wrote:Fawcks wrote:I only have one question.
How do I win Eve? The same way you win Global Thermonuclear War. Tic Tac Toe? |
Konnrade
Nex quod Principatus SRS.
0
|
Posted - 2011.09.13 11:37:00 -
[80] - Quote
Oh well, you made a solid effort and let us know you couldn't finish it. No complaints here. |
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Ciar Meara
Virtus Vindice
196
|
Posted - 2011.09.13 11:59:00 -
[81] - Quote
Fawcks wrote:Pr1ncess Alia wrote:Fawcks wrote:I only have one question.
How do I win Eve? The same way you win Global Thermonuclear War. Tic Tac Toe?
The Mittani prefer chess. T'is the game of Kings. - [img]http://go-dl1.eve-files.com/media/corp/janus/ceosig.jpg[/img] [yellow]English only please. Zymurgist[/yellow] |
Richard Hammond II
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
64
|
Posted - 2011.09.13 17:04:00 -
[82] - Quote
Katrina Bekers wrote:to melting GPUs.
As we found out in the thread where I (and others) got lit up for suggesting this, it wasnt CCP's fault, it was the card manufacturer's fault. They hired actual clothing designers for WiS clothes "no wonder the monocle cost $80, they had to pay royalties" Screw "FiS" its called EVE CCP |
Richard Hammond II
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
64
|
Posted - 2011.09.13 17:08:00 -
[83] - Quote
Damassys Kadesh wrote:dgastuffz wrote:"We answered 347 questions out of the roughly 1100 we received,"
and how many answered about FW i would say you fail This is my problem too. I'm glad that there has been a response to the small outcry from people wanting to know what happened to the answering, but even though there was an acknowledgement to how many FW questions were asked, nothing FW-related got addressed in those 347 answers. Here is the post that can be found on page 2 of the existing answers: Quote:
CCP Manifest
C C PPosted - 2011.05.12 17:37:00 - [35]
****************************** FACTIONAL WARFARE STUFF
There were many questions. Many. I will be working with Soundwave to get answers for you (not a new effort), yet there will be a slight delay though as right now he's headed to a player meetup in Moscow with CCP Daishi, Molock and Spitfire. Please bear with us. ******************************
The likely answer is there are no likely answers. I remember reading something one of the CCP guys saiod about lovingly crafting stuff for the game (like FW) putting it in the game an the players turned their noses at it. "So what was the point" they said "Of putting man hours into a part of the game noone used?" Something to that effect. Its why theres so much stuff in the game that was put in half formed and seemingly forgotten about
They hired actual clothing designers for WiS clothes "no wonder the monocle cost $80, they had to pay royalties" Screw "FiS" its called EVE CCP |
Damassys Kadesh
Eternal Damnation of the Woken Mind
21
|
Posted - 2011.09.13 18:11:00 -
[84] - Quote
Richard Hammond II wrote:Damassys Kadesh wrote:dgastuffz wrote:"We answered 347 questions out of the roughly 1100 we received,"
and how many answered about FW i would say you fail This is my problem too. I'm glad that there has been a response to the small outcry from people wanting to know what happened to the answering, but even though there was an acknowledgement to how many FW questions were asked, nothing FW-related got addressed in those 347 answers. Here is the post that can be found on page 2 of the existing answers: Quote:
CCP Manifest
C C PPosted - 2011.05.12 17:37:00 - [35]
****************************** FACTIONAL WARFARE STUFF
There were many questions. Many. I will be working with Soundwave to get answers for you (not a new effort), yet there will be a slight delay though as right now he's headed to a player meetup in Moscow with CCP Daishi, Molock and Spitfire. Please bear with us. ******************************
The likely answer is there are no likely answers. I remember reading something one of the CCP guys saiod about lovingly crafting stuff for the game (like FW) putting it in the game an the players turned their noses at it. "So what was the point" they said "Of putting man hours into a part of the game noone used?" Something to that effect. Its why theres so much stuff in the game that was put in half formed and seemingly forgotten about
Whaaaaattttt! I hope that is unfounded because that is ridiculous.... A large playersbase has been crying about FW for YEARS. The only lack of interest in the feature is that it doesn't have lasting appeal BECAUSE it has not received any updates... ever, as far as I can remember.
In the beginning there were huge fleets out basically every day causing mayhem and there was lots to do... I never got any impression that players 'turned their noses up" at it. |
Rath Kelbore
The Six-Pack Syndicate
5
|
Posted - 2011.09.13 19:48:00 -
[85] - Quote
"The road to hell is paved with good intentions"
You answered a lot of questions, it was appreciated. However leaving it open ended and apparently ignored for months is what upset people.
Once it became obvious that it wasn't working out, would it have really been that hard to say "We've done all we can for now, thanks for all the questions and I hope you found the replies helpful. We'll do more in the future when we can."
CCP actually does a pretty good job a lot of the time. However, what ccp says they are gonna do is almost always something other than what they do. It's great to set extravagant goals, but it's probably better to set realistic ones along the way.
w/e |
Hans Jagerblitzen
Autocannons Anonymous
390
|
Posted - 2011.09.13 21:54:00 -
[86] - Quote
See? That wasnt so bad was it?? If only the rest of CCP staff had the balls to step forward and be so blatantly honest with the community about their mistakes. Most of us get that you guys are human, and under a lot of pressure right now as well. There are those on here that have unsubscribed already and are hanging around, not playing the game but just saying "CCP sux" about a hundred different ways in every thread. These individuals are irrelevant in the greater scheme of things and just here to troll, and its sad. The rest of us who do feel optimistic about working TOGETHER, developers and community on the same team, to move Eve Online forward.
That being said, CCP Manifest promised those of us in the FW community that we would get a response from Soundwave. We still want a response from Soundwave.
CCP need not be afraid of throwing ideas out there, its what the forums are for. To DISCUSS. Answers DONT have to be 100% accurate. They DONT have to be promises. They can be simply ideas that are being discussed internally. But what isnt acceptable, is promising in multiple ways in multiple occasions and than not delivering.
I understand the thread as a whole is now dead, and its very sad. But seriously, that half-answer was the most excruciating blue-balling of the Faction Warfare community, which has been dedicated, hard working, and shown incredible patience over the years we have now been waiting for CCP to simply tell us one way or another whether they ever plan to give us more time or not.
Just as you had the courage to say sorry, the threads dead, you could have the courage to say sorry FW, we're not going to be able to develop this feature more in light of everything else that is going on. But seriously, just say it. Please. |
MailDeadDrop
Rage and Terror Against ALL Authorities
21
|
Posted - 2011.09.14 03:23:00 -
[87] - Quote
I must give you a compliment, CCP Guard, on stepping forward (eventually...) with the truth. It obviously could not have been pleasant to realize the hole you, CCP collectively, were in. That you spoke to us plainly knowing the reception you would get speaks well of your character. I thank you. Whatever you're eating, see if you can get some of the CCPers to try it.
MDD |
Triggadex
Black Dawn Merchant Industries
11
|
Posted - 2011.09.14 05:32:00 -
[88] - Quote
Well said CCP Guard, now just go give the Incarna team a big hug for me and a coffee and tell them to open the door please, (or at least put it on the test server so i know how to get my Bar up and running early.) CCP Guard's Day | Wake up --- Make Coffee --- Read and Reply on forums for 7 hrs --- Have meeting --- Sleep on couch in Office |
Psyrelle
Capital Systems INC Shadow of xXDEATHXx
2
|
Posted - 2011.09.18 19:39:00 -
[89] - Quote
CCP Guard wrote:Friends,
You all remember the GÇPDevs answer everything threadGÇ£ (I know for a fact that some of you do at least) that we started this spring, with the intention of GÇô as the title subtly hints at - answering every question therein.
As a brand new Community Developer, I started this project with the full intention of pushing it through no matter what. Then summer came with the final Incarna sprints, the Incarna launch, and all that followed. The summer period was extremely hard in terms of securing any GÇPextraGÇ£ time from developers to spend on answering questions from the thread, and itGÇÿs not going to get any easier. Answering this amount of questions publicly takes a lot longer than many would expect because often you get second thoughts about details that you then want to research, or you want to polish the wording so it-¦s clear and understandable for what you intend it to convey.
Long story short, I grossly understimated the time it would take to finish answering all these questions, and overestimated the man hours I would be able to secure. And I learned a few valuable lessons along the way. One of them being never to use the word GÇPpromiseGÇ£ unless you KNOW the result.
It is time to step up and admit defeat and apologize - we will not be moving this thread over from the old forums. Statistically speaking the project was two thirds of a failure. We answered 347 questions out of the roughly 1100 we received, despite repeated attempts at securing manpower. I can only hope that the questions we did answer made all of this at least somewhat worth it for some of you.
WeGÇÿll go back to the drawing board and figure out different ways to do similar things in the future. To those that took part, waited, and never got what they came for, I humbly offer my most sincere apologies.
-CCP Guard
3rd part homepage for answearing questions and asking them. i would recomend all the gm's and dev's to go there and those who wish to ask questions go there as well.
makes it more "duable to handle" linky |
Tonto Auri
Vhero' Multipurpose Corp
1
|
Posted - 2011.10.26 22:38:00 -
[90] - Quote
CCP Guard wrote:It is time to step up and admit defeat and apologize - we will not be moving this thread over from the old forums. Statistically speaking the project was two thirds of a failure. We answered 347 questions out of the roughly 1100 we received, despite repeated attempts at securing manpower. I can only hope that the questions we did answer made all of this at least somewhat worth it for some of you.
WeGÇÿll go back to the drawing board and figure out different ways to do similar things in the future. To those that took part, waited, and never got what they came for, I humbly offer my most sincere apologies.
-CCP Guard
You could've made it better, if grouped questions by the subject, and if not answering, but at least taking a note. Just one warning: DO NOT EDIT QUESTIONS TO BETTER SUIT THE ANSWER. I know the feeling, but I'm, for instance, is very careful while wording my questions on such level of exposure. Especially taking in count the ability to think more than once before submitting a question. It's even worse, when you submit a bug report and find it edited by some bughunter to completely opposite meaning a day later. |
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