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Gabrialle
Amarr
Sunspot Requisitions
Worlds End Consortium
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Posted - 2008.11.27 09:38:00 -
[1]
A skill that when added calculates SP based on your 2 lowest ranking stats (charisma will probably be one of them) and buffers that sp for an hour per skill level up to 5hrs.
when you begin training another skill those skill points are added to the point total, effectively it means you dont lose any training time, only efficiency, as the buffered sp will be the absolute minimum you can earn.
not sure what the reqs would be for the skill, high SOCT skills probably, and using endurance and intelligence for training...
I know that CCP has said in the past that they dont want skill queues as no skill queues encourages people to play the game, but it does get frustrating trying to work a skill plan around a work schedule, and 5 hours isnt much.
discuss, and dev feedback is ever appreciated
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Hesod Adee
KDS Navy
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Posted - 2008.11.27 20:12:00 -
[2]
Because the SP buffer trains at a slower rate, it is still an encouragement for people to log in at odd times of day to change skills. Meaning it doesn't solve the issue that a skill queue would address.
It would be simpler for the server to keep track of how much time has passed since the last skill ended and backdate the starting time of the next skill so the skill has effectively trained at full speed since then. So no advantage to logging in at odd times of day.
Quote:
I know that CCP has said in the past that they dont want skill queues as no skill queues encourages people to play the game, but it does get frustrating trying to work a skill plan around a work schedule, and 5 hours isnt much.
1 - That reason is just BS. I am not aware of a single player who has logged in just to change a skill and has then gone on to play. Instead they just change skills and log. See this thread
2 - This buffer time you propose would either do nothing because players don't use it, or players would use it. If they use it they don't log in, meaning it also runs fowl of this excuse. Meaning that if CCP is still using it, they must also reject your idea.
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I support skill queues |
Mardris Fol
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Posted - 2008.11.28 14:48:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Mardris Fol on 28/11/2008 14:48:46
I also find the way that the Eve skill system intrudes into 'real life' annoying and even stressful.
I've been a proponent of a single slot skill buffer - ie you can set the skill to be trained after the current one but no more. This means you don't have to be online change skills at preceisely the right time, while still requiring you to log in for every change (if you want to take advantage of the buffer).
However, this is an interesting alternative approach.
To be usfeul it would need to be at least a day but much more than that and it might be considered open to abuse.
I'd say just let us accumulate up to a day of 'rest time' that could be spent on new skills immediately. Admittedly you could use this to train up a lot of cheap skills more or less instantly but I'm not sure this would be a great problem (It feels wrong but I don't think it would actually have much impact on the game).
The big plusses to this approach are that there is a minimal change to the UI - you probably just need an saved time indication on the character form while the character isn't training, a small change to the game code, and it would still require people to log in frequently, which a skill queue would make worse.
(So I'm bascially in agreement with Hesod!)
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NightF0x
Gallente
Chicken Coup Raiders
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Posted - 2008.11.28 15:51:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Mardris Fol
Edited by: Mardris Fol on 28/11/2008 14:48:46
I also find the way that the Eve skill system intrudes into 'real life' annoying and even stressful.
I've been a proponent of a single slot skill buffer - ie you can set the skill to be trained after the current one but no more. This means you don't have to be online change skills at preceisely the right time, while still requiring you to log in for every change (if you want to take advantage of the buffer).
However, this is an interesting alternative approach.
To be usfeul it would need to be at least a day but much more than that and it might be considered open to abuse.
I'd say just let us accumulate up to a day of 'rest time' that could be spent on new skills immediately. Admittedly you could use this to train up a lot of cheap skills more or less instantly but I'm not sure this would be a great problem (It feels wrong but I don't think it would actually have much impact on the game).
The big plusses to this approach are that there is a minimal change to the UI - you probably just need an saved time indication on the character form while the character isn't training, a small change to the game code, and it would still require people to log in frequently, which a skill queue would make worse.
(So I'm bascially in agreement with Hesod!)
The closest that CCP will ever come to a skill queue will be to have the skill continue training on the next level if you don't switch skills. None of the 'buffers' where you skill pts into a pot will ever be allowed. It is too open to abuse by training fast skills and letting them expire to put those points towards skills with lower attributes where you wouldn't train as fast. IMO, the skill training works pretty good. Yes it is annoying when you first start out because you have quick training times, but you quickly learn that a few hours of missed skill training isn't the end of the world. There will always be players better than you and they have a 5 year head start.
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Hesod Adee
KDS Navy
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Posted - 2008.11.28 19:57:00 -
[5]
Originally by: NightF0x
It is too open to abuse by training fast skills and letting them expire to put those points towards skills with lower attributes where you wouldn't train as fast.
How exactly would one do that ?
The OP proposed the buffer accumulating SPs based on your lowest attributes, meaning you train slower than if you changed skills on the second they end.
My alteration just tracked the time since the previous skill ended and gave that time to the next skill you train. Meaning you train at the same speed as if you change skills when they end.
Neither allowed players to move SP from a trained skill to an untrained one, so I don't see how the skill you trained previously is relevant.
Instead of limiting the number of skills you can use this backdating on, or a hard limit to the time stashed, I would instead suggest that there are points where you are forced to spend all this backdated time. For example when you go to log in you are forced to spend this accumulated time and set a skill training before you can load a character. This still prevents people accumulating months of unspent time if they are playing, but if something unexpected happens to them they won't lose any training time even if they are gone for months.
Naturally any time spent when an account is unpaid won't count.
I would also force spend it before skill books can be added to the character, unless all skills of all characters on that account are at 5.
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I support skill queues |
NightF0x
Gallente
Chicken Coup Raiders
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Posted - 2008.11.28 20:24:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Hesod Adee
Originally by: NightF0x
It is too open to abuse by training fast skills and letting them expire to put those points towards skills with lower attributes where you wouldn't train as fast.
How exactly would one do that ?
The OP proposed the buffer accumulating SPs based on your lowest attributes, meaning you train slower than if you changed skills on the second they end.
My alteration just tracked the time since the previous skill ended and gave that time to the next skill you train. Meaning you train at the same speed as if you change skills when they end.
Neither allowed players to move SP from a trained skill to an untrained one, so I don't see how the skill you trained previously is relevant.
Instead of limiting the number of skills you can use this backdating on, or a hard limit to the time stashed, I would instead suggest that there are points where you are forced to spend all this backdated time. For example when you go to log in you are forced to spend this accumulated time and set a skill training before you can load a character. This still prevents people accumulating months of unspent time if they are playing, but if something unexpected happens to them they won't lose any training time even if they are gone for months.
Naturally any time spent when an account is unpaid won't count.
I would also force spend it before skill books can be added to the character, unless all skills of all characters on that account are at 5.
Honestly, you guys can sit here and bash your heads together and come up with some ideas. I'm going to read something that CCP might actually change. Dev's already stated that if they were to add anything to the skill training it would be that when the skill your training expires that it would start on the next level of the same skill. They aren't open to queues or buffers, so have fun...
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Hesod Adee
KDS Navy
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Posted - 2008.11.29 20:52:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Hesod Adee on 29/11/2008 20:52:11
Originally by: NightF0x
Honestly, you guys can sit here and bash your heads together and come up with some ideas.
So you now see that your thoughts on a possible exploit were wrong, but you don't want to admit it ?
Quote:
I'm going to read something that CCP might actually change. Dev's already stated that if they were to add anything to the skill training it would be that when the skill your training expires that it would start on the next level of the same skill. They aren't open to queues or buffers, so have fun...
Where did they say that they would only be open to training the next level of a skill automatically ?
All I'm aware of is from the minutes of a CSM meeting which says:
Quote:
0001 Skill Queue Functionality
Noah (CCP) indicated CCPFs awareness of the player frustrations with the ~6 hour duration skill trainings. However, CCP strongly believes that switching skill training is an activity that encourages players to log into the game and play. A skill queue would be a possible solution, if there would be limitations, such as a limited amount of skills being trained, or that only skills of a total up to a certain duration can be stacked into the queue.
Alex (CSM Bane Glorious) noted that players have also suggested a dual training mechanic, where players can pick a primary and secondary skill, which both train at half speed. As soon as the skill with the shortest duration is finished, the other skill will train at full speed.
It was concluded that CCP will look into a solution for this issue.
No mention of automatically starting the next level of a skill.
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I support skill queues |
MelSiva Csylleste
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Posted - 2008.12.03 12:00:00 -
[8]
Whatever method is developed would be better than what we have now, which is nothing. I remember about a month ago not having access to a computer at all. Not wanting to cancel my account, I kept everything going. However, with the nelp of a friend I was able to log on ever 5 days or sp. This left a day or two with nothing training. So what if the 5 year players had a head start. If I had not been forcee to lose that training time, I would now have some of my skills at level 5 already.
Sometimes things happen that can not be helped, and you can not get online. That is bad enough without having to be penalized for it.
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Sir Substance
Minmatar
MagiTech Alliance Inc.
MagiTech Corp
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Posted - 2008.12.03 12:22:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Hesod Adee
Edited by: Hesod Adee on 29/11/2008 20:52:11
Originally by: NightF0x
Honestly, you guys can sit here and bash your heads together and come up with some ideas.
So you now see that your thoughts on a possible exploit were wrong, but you don't want to admit it ?
hey, last time i proved someone wrong, i was told to **** right off. you are doing well :P
i dont mind this as an idea, personally though, i think now that ghost training is gone, the devs have no reason not to implement a full blown no holds barred epicly stackable infinate time skill queue.
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PvPers always say "GB2WoW". the message is that EVE is hard, and people just need to deal with it. wasn't it funny how when nano's started making it hard for *them*, that all went out the window? |
Glach Duwat
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Posted - 2008.12.03 16:15:00 -
[10]
Quote:
1 - That reason is just BS. I am not aware of a single player who has logged in just to change a skill and has then gone on to play.
Are you kidding? This happens all the time for me. I'm like, "Oh, I need to change a skill, but I have other things to do, so I'll just change the skill and log off.... Oh look, an eve Mail!, ohai corp mate... you need back up in [system]? ON MY WAY!"
4 hours later
"****."
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Zirconium Blade
Zero Gravity Inc
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Posted - 2008.12.03 19:22:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Zirconium Blade on 03/12/2008 19:22:50
Losing an hour or 20 of skill training is really quite insignificant... And to the person who thinks Eve skill system is invasive and stressful.... Do yourself a favor and cancel your account.
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Hesod Adee
KDS Navy
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Posted - 2008.12.03 20:48:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Glach Duwat
Quote:
1 - That reason is just BS. I am not aware of a single player who has logged in just to change a skill and has then gone on to play.
Are you kidding? This happens all the time for me. I'm like, "Oh, I need to change a skill, but I have other things to do, so I'll just change the skill and log off.... Oh look, an eve Mail!, ohai corp mate... you need back up in [system]? ON MY WAY!"
4 hours later
"****."
How does your boss react when this causes you to be late to work ?
Or your friends when you said you would be somewhere at a certain time, but you don't make it because Eve distracted you ?
Assuming you have offline friends and a job.
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I support skill queues |
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