Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 5 :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Azeroth Uluntil
Caldari Trident Enterprises Elitist Cowards
|
Posted - 2008.11.28 00:59:00 -
[61]
Originally by: Naomi Knight Aleus Stygian ,sorry to say you this but a zealot will eat any of your frigs way before you can put a point on it. And possibly it will have friends too which will just quicken your death up.
I'm sure some jaguar pilots have a few things to say about that actually... Warp scramblers are great now. :-)
Originally by: lebrata
Originally by: Naomi Knight Aleus Stygian ,sorry to say you this but a zealot will eat any of your frigs way before you can put a point on it. And possibly it will have friends too which will just quicken your death up.
He will just claim he fits a TD or such like on all his frigs and owns zealots by the dozen cos they suck against frigs.....
OH and...
Originally by: Aleus Stygian
Good evening to you.
YAY -1 TARD.
Quite simply put lebrata, I doubt you pvp much at all. Or fight in any fleet combat either. I use both the zealot and eagle, and have the option of using all the other races as needed. The eagle, as is mentioned, is a great anti-support sniper. It outdistances the zealot easily(I wish lock range wasn't limited to 249), even if the tracking may be a little worse with long range ammo(spike versus aurora)
|
Istvaan Shogaatsu
Caldari Guiding Hand Social Club
|
Posted - 2008.11.28 01:52:00 -
[62]
Just so y'all know, I pick my corp theft targets based on who posts what in Zealot nerf threads.
|
Trind2222
Amarr The Red Ring
|
Posted - 2008.11.28 02:04:00 -
[63]
Edited by: Trind2222 on 28/11/2008 02:05:01 I gona fly a Deimos for I am a BAKA.
I probely not goana buy new one but i love the ship i don't know why.
____________ Wrangler *comes back out wearing his wizard hat and robe* Wrangler: Hail and well met from Blizzard, how might I assist you?
|
Letifer Deus
A Astroid Belt Lotto Syndicate
|
Posted - 2008.11.28 02:12:00 -
[64]
"18:32:43 Notify Training of the skill Amarr Cruiser lvl 5 has been completed."
The Zealot is fine. Nothing to see here, move a long ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "Brought to you by the letter ARRR!" |
Aleus Stygian
|
Posted - 2008.11.28 02:31:00 -
[65]
Edited by: Aleus Stygian on 28/11/2008 02:33:24
Originally by: Istvaan Shogaatsu Just so y'all know, I pick my corp theft targets based on who posts what in Zealot nerf threads.
Hm. That's interesting, improbable as it is. My worries aside, would you screw some individual player for the payment of one T2/faction-fitted Zealot? Just curious.
Either way, a toast to the man who can scare people into station just by posting some off comment in a thread on the forums.
|
Murkon Salesgirl
Amarr
|
Posted - 2008.11.28 03:08:00 -
[66]
Deimos needs a buff. It's got gank and weak tank, whereas its bigger brother the Brutix has both better. The falloff bonus on the deimos? Why even bother, point blank range with a bonus is still point blank. Give it a 5% Armor resist bonus instead of the falloff. Give it more grid so it can fit neutrons and tank without wasting slots on RCU or rigs. And remove that 6th high and give it 4 mids.
Now you have a worthwhile blaster platform. People will still fly brutix for that, as its cheap and effective. But for those who wants to spend more, gets a better Deimos, with high gank and high tank on a mobile platform. |
Ess Erbe
Caldari GoonFleet GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2008.11.28 03:13:00 -
[67]
Originally by: Letifer Deus "18:32:43 Notify Training of the skill Amarr Cruiser lvl 5 has been completed."
The Zealot is fine. Nothing to see here, move a long
Hi Letifer .
Zealots are, indeed, fine.
|
Merin Ryskin
Peregrine Industries
|
Posted - 2008.11.28 03:48:00 -
[68]
Originally by: Naomi Knight Lol ppl fly eagle over a zealot, this must stupid. Why would anybody fly an eagle over a zealot? for that 150 dps over 100km to 180km? While they could do 220-290dps at 100km. Yeah 180km sounds good at first ,but your gang mates all will be closer doing more dmg than you, and probably helping your gang better than you.
Why would you EVER want 200km optimal?
Originally by: lebrata 1. I said nobody would fly a eagle or deimos if they had a zealot available, i did not say that the reason ppl did not fly the deimos was cos of the zealot
And you are just plain wrong. People DO fly the Eagle, even when they have a Zealot available, and people DO fly a Brutix (the Deimos replacement).
I was going to write a long explanation of why you are wrong, but really, it's not worth the effort. You clearly have zero understanding of how PvP works, but you won't even admit it and ask for help. Like it or not, the Zealot is not the only useful HAC, and the ones that aren't useful suck for reasons that have nothing to do with "the Zealot is better". Even if you deleted the Zealot from the game entirely, you wouldn't make any of the currently-useless HACs worth flying. ----------- Blaster sig removed for now, pending those "changes we've been working on all day". CCP, don't screw this up.
|
Letifer Deus
A Astroid Belt Lotto Syndicate
|
Posted - 2008.11.28 04:57:00 -
[69]
Edited by: Letifer Deus on 28/11/2008 05:03:26
Originally by: Ess Erbe Hi Letifer .
Zealots are, indeed, fine.
Well, hello. =)
Do you have amarr cruiser 5 on SISI yet?
Originally by: Merin Ryskin Why would you EVER want 200km optimal?
And do a whole ~170-190 DPS. Wow, yay, can't wait to fly one. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "Brought to you by the letter ARRR!" |
Merin Ryskin
Peregrine Industries
|
Posted - 2008.11.28 05:14:00 -
[70]
Originally by: Letifer Deus
Originally by: Merin Ryskin Why would you EVER want 200km optimal?
And do a whole ~170-190 DPS. Wow, yay, can't wait to fly one.
And the oblivious award goes to..... Letifer Deus!!!
(Hint: click the link.) ----------- Blaster sig removed for now, pending those "changes we've been working on all day". CCP, don't screw this up.
|
|
Letifer Deus
A Astroid Belt Lotto Syndicate
|
Posted - 2008.11.28 05:35:00 -
[71]
Edited by: Letifer Deus on 28/11/2008 05:35:56
Originally by: Merin Ryskin
(Hint: click the link.)
I did before. What is your point? The eagle is viable for ONE specific task for which you'd probably be better off with a rokh? Sure, it is slower to warp, but it does about ~75% more dps and gets a real insurance payout. Those two things are quite nice. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "Brought to you by the letter ARRR!" |
Ess Erbe
Caldari GoonFleet GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2008.11.28 06:25:00 -
[72]
Edited by: Ess Erbe on 28/11/2008 06:27:21
Originally by: Letifer Deus Edited by: Letifer Deus on 28/11/2008 05:03:26
Originally by: Ess Erbe Hi Letifer .
Zealots are, indeed, fine.
Well, hello. =)
Do you have amarr cruiser 5 on SISI yet?
I actually haven't checked, but unless a new mirror has been put up, I doubt it :(.
Originally by: Merin Ryskin Why would you EVER want 200km optimal?
Quote: And do a whole ~170-190 DPS. Wow, yay, can't wait to fly one.
It can force Falcons to bugger off, that's the point with its extreme range really. 170 DPS is still all the Falcon's HPs relatively fast unless it buggers off. Sniper battleships have other things to worry about, antisupport Eagle can take care of pesky stuff.
|
Goumindong
Amarr Merch Industrial GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2008.11.28 07:07:00 -
[73]
Originally by: Captator
And for how long is that alpha of greater value than the Zealot's dps? I could understand if it did actually one volley smaller ships, but it takes 2-5 depending on range, so a Zealot actually gets them down faster.
I agree on the cloak being an advantage, but then is it not gimped in its intended antisupport role if it takes a lot longer to lock everything?
On Muninn perhaps you do need to used RF carbonised lead, but on zealot you can get away with t2 ammo at the edges of its range.
It is a bit better than hurricane, not a lot, and I don't think it is comparable to the zealot really.
No, the Zealot cannot get away with t2 ammo in the situations we are discussing.
Look, there are three primary things you use a HAC for
1. Medium range Damage support. Here the Zealot is slightly better than the Muninn and much better than the Eagle. The Muninn has less damage and less instant damage but the utility high slots and drones are actually valuable to about 50-60km.
2. Long range anti-support. Here the Muninn and Zealot are about equal. The typical workings of combat here have the Muninn and Zealot attempting to kill enemy interceptors before they can get close to your battleships[providing warp ins for enemy dictors, who would ideally be out of anti-support range]. This means that faction ammo is mandatory. The Zealot has slightly more tracking, but the Muninn has much better volley damage, and volley damage can be a big factor in killing and making the inties warp out.
In this situation, its not so much damage, but range and effective tracking that matter. The Eagle for instance is clearly the best at this role, not because it does the most damage, but because it can engage targets much sooner, and at such high ranges, its not going to miss.
This role may change if people decide they want to use Ishtars and Cerberus more, but the delay on drones and missiles at these distances can be problematic to say the least even if they produce more reliable results over the long term.
3. HAC sniper gangs. Using a sniping HAC to shoot cruisers in a traditional battleship gang is dumb, your battleships can do that after they've cleared enemy BS, and your battlecruisers can do that right from the beginning[they do not have the range, scan res, or tracking to hit inties]. In our gangs we pretty much describe Zealots and other high value crusiers as "targets of opportunity" for our BS as in "ohh, look there is a zealot i can hit and i am not shooting anything else, i might as well rip it apart"
But if you need your sniping gang to move fast, BS are not the way to go, and BC do not have the range. This limits your options to sniping HACs. Which one is better here, I am not sure. The Zealot sure does the most DPS, but whether or not the defenses the Muninn bring to the table are significant or whether or not the entire endeavor is less valuable due to recent changes I do not know.
Originally by: Naomi Knight Why would anybody fly an eagle over a zealot? for that 150 dps over 100km to 180km?
1. An eagle, with appropriate ammo will do about 220+ DPS at 100km.
2. Yes, range is that important.
|
Lyria Skydancer
Amarr Home 0f Bored Occultists
|
Posted - 2008.11.28 07:16:00 -
[74]
Originally by: Solid Prefekt
I, for one, am Matar for life. Nerf me to hell and back and I will keep flying Matar ships.
QFT. I started flying amarr when they were crap. All these whiners that are saying "well now I have to cross train for this and that qqqqqq" are the ones that always end up miserable after every patch because they never get to the fotm in time before it changes.
On topic: It's quite daft to think that ccp will nerf a ship they so recently boosted. It won't happen. Besides the zealot IS actually fine. ----------------------------------------- [Video] The Cruise |
Letifer Deus
A Astroid Belt Lotto Syndicate
|
Posted - 2008.11.28 07:17:00 -
[75]
Originally by: Ess Erbe
It can force Falcons to bugger off, that's the point with its extreme range really. 170 DPS is still all the Falcon's HPs relatively fast unless it buggers off. Sniper battleships have other things to worry about, antisupport Eagle can take care of pesky stuff.
But the point is, you could easily tell the eagle pilot to get in a rokh, or an apoc if he has the skills, and he will do his job better and with less monetary risk. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "Brought to you by the letter ARRR!" |
Lyria Skydancer
Amarr Home 0f Bored Occultists
|
Posted - 2008.11.28 07:21:00 -
[76]
Originally by: Letifer Deus
Originally by: Ess Erbe
It can force Falcons to bugger off, that's the point with its extreme range really. 170 DPS is still all the Falcon's HPs relatively fast unless it buggers off. Sniper battleships have other things to worry about, antisupport Eagle can take care of pesky stuff.
But the point is, you could easily tell the eagle pilot to get in a rokh, or an apoc if he has the skills, and he will do his job better and with less monetary risk.
If they have large t2 guns. T1 sniping is meh compared to t2 hac sniping. ----------------------------------------- [Video] The Cruise |
Letifer Deus
A Astroid Belt Lotto Syndicate
|
Posted - 2008.11.28 07:26:00 -
[77]
Edited by: Letifer Deus on 28/11/2008 07:26:01
Originally by: Lyria Skydancer If they have large t2 guns. T1 sniping is meh compared to t2 hac sniping.
If someone even suggested coming out with T1 rails/beams to snipe falcons I'd probably ask that he/she be kicked from vent.
I'm assuming said eagle pilot has T2 large rail/beam spec 4 =). ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "Brought to you by the letter ARRR!" |
Derek Sigres
|
Posted - 2008.11.28 09:13:00 -
[78]
Originally by: Letifer Deus Edited by: Letifer Deus on 28/11/2008 05:03:26
Originally by: Ess Erbe Hi Letifer .
Zealots are, indeed, fine.
Well, hello. =)
Do you have amarr cruiser 5 on SISI yet?
Originally by: Merin Ryskin Why would you EVER want 200km optimal?
And do a whole ~170-190 DPS. Wow, yay, can't wait to fly one.
How much does a Zealot do at 200km? I'm pretty sure it's somewhere around 0 DPS if I'm not mistaken. Couple that with a ship that has a sensor strength high enough actually be able to mount an effective defense against ECM and you move closer to the reason why it might be a good ship. Then look at the ship's chosen prey and note it's incredibly low EHP levels. Seems to me that the Eagle is in fact far better than the Zealot for the proposed task of clearing the skys of falcons.
|
lebrata
Hedion University
|
Posted - 2008.11.28 09:34:00 -
[79]
Edited by: lebrata on 28/11/2008 09:35:05
Originally by: Merin Ryskin
And you are just plain wrong. People DO fly the Eagle, even when they have a Zealot available,
Nobody i know does.
Originally by: Merin Ryskin and people DO fly a Brutix (the Deimos replacement).
I never said they didn't emo boy.
Originally by: Merin Ryskin I was going to write a long explanation of why you are wrong, but really, it's not worth the effort. You clearly have zero understanding of how PvP works, but you won't even admit it and ask for help.
I am a 03 player with a list of high sp high profile pvp corps on my employment history noob, and you need to learn how to read instead of going emo.
Originally by: Merin Ryskin Like it or not, the Zealot is not the only useful HAC, and the ones that aren't useful suck for reasons that have nothing to do with "the Zealot is better".
Here you go again with your emo assumptions you tard..i never said that the zealot was the only useful hac or that the others were bad because of the zealot, i said the zealot was better and that given the cjhoice ppl would now fly one over the deimos or eagle.
Originally by: Merin Ryskin Even if you deleted the Zealot from the game entirely, you wouldn't make any of the currently-useless HACs worth flying.
I NEVER SAID IT WOULD YOU EMO MUPPET.....I JUST SAID IT WAS A BETTER SHIP.
|
Kingwood
Amarr Emos and Cowboys
|
Posted - 2008.11.28 11:20:00 -
[80]
Would you people shut up about the Zealot already. It does 1 thing, and does it well, and that is DPS in a gang at mid-range. Anything with a tracking disruptor will kill it, any frig which manages to get into range will kill it,any ship with ECM support will kill it. Just shut up, stop calling for nerfs, learn how to fly your freaking ships. Call for a Deimos boost, if you want, but just shut up already. I'm willing to bet that most of the people whining here don't even fly HACs. I also have no clue why there's been so many Zealot/Omen fitting threads the last 2 weeks. The ships are still the same from 6 months ago, last I checked.
|
|
Andraine
Coded Arms Corp
|
Posted - 2008.11.28 11:23:00 -
[81]
I bet they bloody nerf lasers..... bah yobo |
Admrial Togo
|
Posted - 2008.11.28 11:34:00 -
[82]
yes nerf zealot and then nerf cerb, then nerf ishtar, vega should be nerfed too ...........make all HAC in a sameline............. with t1 cruisers nerf every thing OP cant flys i gusee OP dont have skill for HAC
|
Morgan La'Chance
Caldari Dynamic Reallocation and Logistics
|
Posted - 2008.11.28 11:43:00 -
[83]
Change cap use bonus to rate of fire bonus, change damage bonus to rate of fire bonus, add 50% cap use as special ability.
|
MC dragos
|
Posted - 2008.11.28 11:48:00 -
[84]
Edited by: MC dragos on 28/11/2008 11:49:00 Hey , i got a ideea ... we should all fly shuttles , remove all other ships from eve so we are all equal make only 1 gun to fitt on our shuttles so we can kill eachother but before that , CCP please nerf shuttles couse they go to freaking fast . Thanks
|
Murkon Salesgirl
Amarr
|
Posted - 2008.11.28 11:49:00 -
[85]
Originally by: Kingwood Would you people shut up about the Zealot already. It does 1 thing, and does it well, and that is DPS in a gang at mid-range. Anything with a tracking disruptor will kill it, any frig which manages to get into range will kill it,any ship with ECM support will kill it. Just shut up, stop calling for nerfs, learn how to fly your freaking ships. Call for a Deimos boost, if you want, but just shut up already. I'm willing to bet that most of the people whining here don't even fly HACs. I also have no clue why there's been so many Zealot/Omen fitting threads the last 2 weeks. The ships are still the same from 6 months ago, last I checked.
You know, it wasn't that long ago that "mid range dps" gets a "LOL WATZ THAT?!" reply or "PVP ONLY HAPPEN IN WEB RANGE OR SNIPING".
Mid range was the Amarrian niche then, and it still is now. But, the metagame has shifted and mid range is suddenly important. As such, ships that were once laughed at.. like omen (still laughed at now actually.. but soon, they will ditch their thorax/ruptures and bow down to their new t1 cruiser overlord!) and zealots.. are killing people left and right. So ofcourse people will come to the forums and whine, what else do you expect from MMO crowds? |
Kingwood
Amarr Emos and Cowboys
|
Posted - 2008.11.28 11:56:00 -
[86]
Originally by: Morgan La'Chance Change cap use bonus to rate of fire bonus, change damage bonus to rate of fire bonus, add 50% cap use as special ability.
Die in a fire, tbfh.
|
Diomidis
Amarr Mythos Corp RAZOR Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.11.28 12:04:00 -
[87]
Originally by: Kingwood I also have no clue why there's been so many Zealot/Omen fitting threads the last 2 weeks. The ships are still the same from 6 months ago, last I checked.
Because random rumorz and inconsistent killboard posts mess things up...ppl flew the Zealot with 4 turrets - I did and I've liked it...it wasn't uber, but it was the HAS that supported the T2 turrets I could use...
I didn't think the Zealot as an uber solo boat - tho many pilots nanoed and kill lonely ratters with one...
The thing is that Deimos pilots tend to think themselves as the "ought-to-be" uber close range solo ship, with full dps, tackle and EHP to complement that... PPl whined that scramblers would make a MWDing Deimos and other blaster boats useless...they just refuse to see that a scrambler is an all-in-one webber+point in one module - perfect suited for blaster boats more than any other mid-large sized boats... Fitting a scram in anything but a frig/AS/Intie and the relevant Gallente Recons is not that of a smart idea...but a blaster Brutix or Deimos can really make use of them...
But no...without the grid and CPU to support full rack of Neutrons and 1600mm, and, and, and...the Deimos is not the uber solo boat some would like it to be...maybe that's exactly CCP's point of view... Join the Biggest Greek Corp! www.Mythos-eve.com - Join Mythos Channel in game! |
Andraine
Coded Arms Corp
|
Posted - 2008.11.28 12:07:00 -
[88]
Originally by: Kingwood
Originally by: Morgan La'Chance Change cap use bonus to rate of fire bonus, change damage bonus to rate of fire bonus, add 50% cap use as special ability.
Die in a fire, tbfh.
Hey kingwood, what do you know about amarr ships eh eh! Nothing! nothing I tell ya! yobo |
lebrata
Hedion University
|
Posted - 2008.11.28 12:23:00 -
[89]
Originally by: Kingwood Would you people shut up about the Zealot already. It does 1 thing, and does it well, and that is DPS in a gang at mid-range. Anything with a tracking disruptor will kill it, any frig which manages to get into range will kill it,any ship with ECM support will kill it.
That applies to every gunnery ship muppet.
Originally by: Kingwood Just shut up, stop calling for nerfs, learn how to fly your freaking ships.
I know exactly how to fly the ships im trained in and im normally against nerfs i prefer buffs and counters to be added.... muppet....i just happen to enjoy watching amaar ppl go emo at the suggestion of their favorite toy being "BALANCED".
Originally by: Kingwood Call for a Deimos boost, if you want, but just shut up already.
Actually il post as much as i please thanks all the same muppet.
Originally by: Kingwood I'm willing to bet that most of the people whining here don't even fly HACs.
I can fly gallente, hac, the eagle and the rapier and now im training for the zealot....muppet.
Originally by: Kingwood I also have no clue why there's been so many Zealot/Omen fitting threads the last 2 weeks. The ships are still the same from 6 months ago, last I checked.
Considering how much mid range pvp has just had a boost due to the nano nerf i suggest its you who learn a little about pvp on tq nowadays...MUPPET.
|
Kingwood
Amarr Emos and Cowboys
|
Posted - 2008.11.28 12:26:00 -
[90]
Hey lebrata, how about you post with your main. No use arguing with someone who doesn't back his claims up.
|
|
|
|
|
Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 5 :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |