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Valrandir
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Posted - 2004.07.12 13:51:00 -
[31]
It is legal since the ships wrap to a random location on logout. Since they have to wrap back on login it is no longuer considered a exploit.
That is what a GM posted on the forums a few months ago.
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Valrandir
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Posted - 2004.07.12 13:51:00 -
[32]
It is legal since the ships wrap to a random location on logout. Since they have to wrap back on login it is no longuer considered a exploit.
That is what a GM posted on the forums a few months ago.
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JoCool
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Posted - 2004.07.12 13:56:00 -
[33]
Simply force someone who logged in in deep space to wait one minute for his Warp Engine to recalibrate itself. So he's one minute in local but cannot warp.
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JoCool
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Posted - 2004.07.12 13:56:00 -
[34]
Simply force someone who logged in in deep space to wait one minute for his Warp Engine to recalibrate itself. So he's one minute in local but cannot warp.
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Arud
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Posted - 2004.07.12 13:58:00 -
[35]
how about simply having a delay before they can do anything when people log into while in space. So a player a logs off, ship flies off automaticly 1 au away like it is now. Later he logs back on, for 1-2 minutes he cant move, give the excuse like the crew is getting back to work from launch or something. He does on the other hand apear on local and can start to chat in local and with his corp mates just he can not move his ship. When the delay ends he automaticly warps back to his logoff point. This gives the others in the system some time to either get away ore just tough it out when all the login guys warp back in.
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Arud
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Posted - 2004.07.12 13:58:00 -
[36]
how about simply having a delay before they can do anything when people log into while in space. So a player a logs off, ship flies off automaticly 1 au away like it is now. Later he logs back on, for 1-2 minutes he cant move, give the excuse like the crew is getting back to work from launch or something. He does on the other hand apear on local and can start to chat in local and with his corp mates just he can not move his ship. When the delay ends he automaticly warps back to his logoff point. This gives the others in the system some time to either get away ore just tough it out when all the login guys warp back in.
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SlightlyMad
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Posted - 2004.07.12 14:05:00 -
[37]
The "warp away" isn't enough.
It is still as effective as it was before. I'm not sure how the ban could be lifted with just that argument * -"You know, we play the "good guys" right? We kill pirates, griefers, retards and general subversive elements in the EVE-Community. To the rest, we are friendly and always prepared to help out. Peo |
SlightlyMad
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Posted - 2004.07.12 14:05:00 -
[38]
The "warp away" isn't enough.
It is still as effective as it was before. I'm not sure how the ban could be lifted with just that argument * -"You know, we play the "good guys" right? We kill pirates, griefers, retards and general subversive elements in the EVE-Community. To the rest, we are friendly and always prepared to help out. Peo |
Pychian Vanervi
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Posted - 2004.07.12 14:06:00 -
[39]
Just get rid of the warp away and the ships disapearing in space.
The log on tactic and the logg off escape tactic are both used a lot more to a players benefit than they are to stop you getting screwed because of a CTD, power failure, etc. I bet the percentage of ships CTDing in a combat situation is far less than the number of players using it to avoid or get the upper hand on another player.
Just leave ships where they are logged out.
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It's all about the fortune and glory, fortune and glory!
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Pychian Vanervi
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Posted - 2004.07.12 14:06:00 -
[40]
Just get rid of the warp away and the ships disapearing in space.
The log on tactic and the logg off escape tactic are both used a lot more to a players benefit than they are to stop you getting screwed because of a CTD, power failure, etc. I bet the percentage of ships CTDing in a combat situation is far less than the number of players using it to avoid or get the upper hand on another player.
Just leave ships where they are logged out.
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It's all about the fortune and glory, fortune and glory!
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eddie valvetino
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Posted - 2004.07.12 14:16:00 -
[41]
this "tactic" doesn't seem that different to waiting in the next by system, to me really.
i see no benefit, in fact surely it open you up to have your stuff knicked.
Okay nOOb question time... what is the point?
(\_/) (O.o) (> <) |
eddie valvetino
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Posted - 2004.07.12 14:16:00 -
[42]
this "tactic" doesn't seem that different to waiting in the next by system, to me really.
i see no benefit, in fact surely it open you up to have your stuff knicked.
Okay nOOb question time... what is the point?
(\_/) (O.o) (> <) |
hatchette
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Posted - 2004.07.12 14:19:00 -
[43]
What about log-in delay? If you are in mid-space and log-in.. you would have to wait 3-5minutes cloaked (random time?)before doing anything.. you would be only visible on local.
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hatchette
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Posted - 2004.07.12 14:19:00 -
[44]
What about log-in delay? If you are in mid-space and log-in.. you would have to wait 3-5minutes cloaked (random time?)before doing anything.. you would be only visible on local.
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Schani Kratnorr
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Posted - 2004.07.12 14:24:00 -
[45]
Edited by: Schani Kratnorr on 12/07/2004 14:27:43 @CCP: So it's legal now to use login-traps. great... well I guess yet another reason to simply stop trying to "PLAY" the game and start finding every little thing you can to get an advantage even to the point of trashing the servers...
You guys simply have no clue do you?
Here's a petition I wrote on 06/08/2004 09:59 AM (as I recall it AFTER the change was made that meant ships warped off randomly when logging off)
Quote: Lacking a search feature on the official website I need to ask here. I seem to recal an official statement about the so-called "mass logon trap" in which a group of pilots log off in a system and leave a single ship as "bait", then once a ships or group of ships take the "bait" they log back on, warp to the location of the trap, and proceed to shoot the ship(s).
I'll leave it up to you to decide if it's an exploit or not, I just want an aswer couse it seems to the the tactic of choice and nothing is being done about it.
We need an official statement about it, exploit or not!
/Schani
Please note that I clearly stated that the "perpetrators" needed to "log back on, warp to the location of the trap, and proceed to shoot the ship(s)"
I know full well that it is against the "rules" to re-post any part of a private conversation with a GM, but in this matter I do it to demonstrate how the tables get turned on us players constantly.
Quote: 06/08/2004 03:12 PM: Hi Schani,
This is infact an exploit and those who will be found guilty of using it may be expecting a ban. Please write a detailed report if you know if one incident and dont forget to include names. If you need further assistance, please don't hesitate to contact us again. We'll do all we can to help.
Best regards, [GM]Sw00sh The EVE Online Customer Support Team
This needs to be classed as an exploit because it's daft. Even if you didn't have "show pilots in space" on the map, it would be impossible for people to have any hope of defending themselves against this type of "tactic". Even to the point of having a X-minute delay before ship controls went online efter logging in, I think this issue needs to be resolved by first classing it as an exploit and then by coding some type of delay into the log-on procedure...
@Moderators: You may delete, lock, edit, change this post, but that does not change the fact that this needs to be resolved. The "ruling" made is wrong from a game enjoyment perspective, and the fact that the GM's dont have clear guidelines on these issues lead to community confusion to be picked up by the those "players" who allways seem to "find" these "features" and exploit them to the fullest without fear of repercussions, to the detriment of the majority. -- "I am an expert in not caring. The trick is to stop giving a rat's ass about anyone else and start thinking about what YOU want, what YOU diserve, what the world ows YOU!" - Bender |
Schani Kratnorr
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Posted - 2004.07.12 14:24:00 -
[46]
Edited by: Schani Kratnorr on 12/07/2004 14:27:43 @CCP: So it's legal now to use login-traps. great... well I guess yet another reason to simply stop trying to "PLAY" the game and start finding every little thing you can to get an advantage even to the point of trashing the servers...
You guys simply have no clue do you?
Here's a petition I wrote on 06/08/2004 09:59 AM (as I recall it AFTER the change was made that meant ships warped off randomly when logging off)
Quote: Lacking a search feature on the official website I need to ask here. I seem to recal an official statement about the so-called "mass logon trap" in which a group of pilots log off in a system and leave a single ship as "bait", then once a ships or group of ships take the "bait" they log back on, warp to the location of the trap, and proceed to shoot the ship(s).
I'll leave it up to you to decide if it's an exploit or not, I just want an aswer couse it seems to the the tactic of choice and nothing is being done about it.
We need an official statement about it, exploit or not!
/Schani
Please note that I clearly stated that the "perpetrators" needed to "log back on, warp to the location of the trap, and proceed to shoot the ship(s)"
I know full well that it is against the "rules" to re-post any part of a private conversation with a GM, but in this matter I do it to demonstrate how the tables get turned on us players constantly.
Quote: 06/08/2004 03:12 PM: Hi Schani,
This is infact an exploit and those who will be found guilty of using it may be expecting a ban. Please write a detailed report if you know if one incident and dont forget to include names. If you need further assistance, please don't hesitate to contact us again. We'll do all we can to help.
Best regards, [GM]Sw00sh The EVE Online Customer Support Team
This needs to be classed as an exploit because it's daft. Even if you didn't have "show pilots in space" on the map, it would be impossible for people to have any hope of defending themselves against this type of "tactic". Even to the point of having a X-minute delay before ship controls went online efter logging in, I think this issue needs to be resolved by first classing it as an exploit and then by coding some type of delay into the log-on procedure...
@Moderators: You may delete, lock, edit, change this post, but that does not change the fact that this needs to be resolved. The "ruling" made is wrong from a game enjoyment perspective, and the fact that the GM's dont have clear guidelines on these issues lead to community confusion to be picked up by the those "players" who allways seem to "find" these "features" and exploit them to the fullest without fear of repercussions, to the detriment of the majority. -- "I am an expert in not caring. The trick is to stop giving a rat's ass about anyone else and start thinking about what YOU want, what YOU diserve, what the world ows YOU!" - Bender |
SlightlyMad
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Posted - 2004.07.12 15:06:00 -
[47]
Edited by: SlightlyMad on 12/07/2004 15:11:25 Edited by: SlightlyMad on 12/07/2004 15:10:35
Originally by: eddie valvetino this "tactic" doesn't seem that different to waiting in the next by system, to me really.
i see no benefit, in fact surely it open you up to have your stuff knicked.
Okay nOOb question time... what is the point?
Scouting baby... scouting.
A fleet waiting in the next system is easily scouted. When attacking at a gate/station you of course take into account enemies in the next system or docked enemies.
Logged out enemies is a tad bit harder to spot
Schani!: It was ruled as an exploit. Now its back as not an exploit. I think this is one of the baddest things you are allowed "to do". In class with intentional lag created by millions of cans * -"You know, we play the "good guys" right? We kill pirates, griefers, retards and general subversive elements in the EVE-Community. To the rest, we are friendly and always prepared to help out. Peo |
SlightlyMad
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Posted - 2004.07.12 15:06:00 -
[48]
Edited by: SlightlyMad on 12/07/2004 15:11:25 Edited by: SlightlyMad on 12/07/2004 15:10:35
Originally by: eddie valvetino this "tactic" doesn't seem that different to waiting in the next by system, to me really.
i see no benefit, in fact surely it open you up to have your stuff knicked.
Okay nOOb question time... what is the point?
Scouting baby... scouting.
A fleet waiting in the next system is easily scouted. When attacking at a gate/station you of course take into account enemies in the next system or docked enemies.
Logged out enemies is a tad bit harder to spot
Schani!: It was ruled as an exploit. Now its back as not an exploit. I think this is one of the baddest things you are allowed "to do". In class with intentional lag created by millions of cans * -"You know, we play the "good guys" right? We kill pirates, griefers, retards and general subversive elements in the EVE-Community. To the rest, we are friendly and always prepared to help out. Peo |
khainestar
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Posted - 2004.07.12 15:25:00 -
[49]
Actually theres a way around the warp away when log off, it just makes the ship stay put and ready to insta-gank someone. I won't say how its done but it is pretty easy to workout. I lost a moa to this, But my scorp got some swift revenge.
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Pain. Looks great on other people. Its what there for. |
khainestar
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Posted - 2004.07.12 15:25:00 -
[50]
Actually theres a way around the warp away when log off, it just makes the ship stay put and ready to insta-gank someone. I won't say how its done but it is pretty easy to workout. I lost a moa to this, But my scorp got some swift revenge.
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Pain. Looks great on other people. Its what there for. |
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Sally
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Posted - 2004.07.12 15:26:00 -
[51]
The whole log on/off exploits just got worse with the latest try to fix something.
The game would be much better if some serious PvP and log on/off timers would be implemented. -- Stories: #1 --
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Sally
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Posted - 2004.07.12 15:26:00 -
[52]
The whole log on/off exploits just got worse with the latest try to fix something.
The game would be much better if some serious PvP and log on/off timers would be implemented. -- Stories: #1 --
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DeFood
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Posted - 2004.07.12 15:33:00 -
[53]
cheesy perhaps, but how is it an exploit?
Its the logical outcome of the logout and ships-in-space systems.
The problem - if any - results because the game is badly designed, in that it does not attempt to explain what happens to player characters when the players are offline, as a result a number of game features can only be accessed by logging off: 1. being cloaked from the "ships in space" and local channels is only possible by logging off. 2. Emergency warp to random safespot, likewise. 3. complete immunity to discovery - only available to offline players in space.
If CCP went to the effort to hide the difference between offline and online players, these would (or potentially could) not be issues.
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DeFood
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Posted - 2004.07.12 15:33:00 -
[54]
cheesy perhaps, but how is it an exploit?
Its the logical outcome of the logout and ships-in-space systems.
The problem - if any - results because the game is badly designed, in that it does not attempt to explain what happens to player characters when the players are offline, as a result a number of game features can only be accessed by logging off: 1. being cloaked from the "ships in space" and local channels is only possible by logging off. 2. Emergency warp to random safespot, likewise. 3. complete immunity to discovery - only available to offline players in space.
If CCP went to the effort to hide the difference between offline and online players, these would (or potentially could) not be issues.
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Sally
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Posted - 2004.07.12 15:37:00 -
[55]
Originally by: JoCool Simply force someone who logged in in deep space to wait one minute for his Warp Engine to recalibrate itself. So he's one minute in local but cannot warp.
Yup. But don't come with such good ideas to CCP.
Instead of implementing something simple like that, they broke the existing mechanics beyond any recognition. The last change didn't fix anything. It made everything worse (check Darh Solo's post in crime & punishment forum e.g.).
Just watch the recent threads all over the forums regarding logout exploits and now we got a new thread about a this cowardly log on traps also.
Some serious minute long timers need to be introduced and the game stability needs to be further improved.
Just check DAoC for example: You can not log off instantly when someone is fighting you. Even if someone (NPC, PC) is near you, you will need a bit longer to log off than if you would be the only player around. This can also be somehow applied to the log on issues, but I am believing that CCP wants this game as ultra-consent PvP as it is. -- Stories: #1 --
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Sally
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Posted - 2004.07.12 15:37:00 -
[56]
Originally by: JoCool Simply force someone who logged in in deep space to wait one minute for his Warp Engine to recalibrate itself. So he's one minute in local but cannot warp.
Yup. But don't come with such good ideas to CCP.
Instead of implementing something simple like that, they broke the existing mechanics beyond any recognition. The last change didn't fix anything. It made everything worse (check Darh Solo's post in crime & punishment forum e.g.).
Just watch the recent threads all over the forums regarding logout exploits and now we got a new thread about a this cowardly log on traps also.
Some serious minute long timers need to be introduced and the game stability needs to be further improved.
Just check DAoC for example: You can not log off instantly when someone is fighting you. Even if someone (NPC, PC) is near you, you will need a bit longer to log off than if you would be the only player around. This can also be somehow applied to the log on issues, but I am believing that CCP wants this game as ultra-consent PvP as it is. -- Stories: #1 --
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DREAMWORKS
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Posted - 2004.07.12 15:39:00 -
[57]
Edited by: DREAMWORKS on 12/07/2004 15:41:38
Originally by: Sally The whole log on/off exploits just got worse with the latest try to fix something.
The game would be much better if some serious PvP and log on/off timers would be implemented.
Yeah lovely:
CTD, Wait 10 minutes till you can see if your BS surfived the NPC's at a gate...
And it does not remove log off traps, people dont log off the moment they see anyone comming. They remain logged off till someone comes by and how you want to stop someone to log in after 15 minutes waiting?
"Newb buys game: Tries to log on. Welcome to EvE please wait 15 minutes till log in has been completed"
"Newb: **** THIS"
The best way to remove log off traps is not removing the log off part, but the advantage it gives. Thus removing local or make skills to hide yourself in local, remove map display..
Oh and Oveur your remark about ships staying in space isnt one of the brightest, imagine 50.000 accounts their ships still beeing in space (with all the trail accounts there could even be more) THE LAG THE LAG LAAAAAG.
Increasing the warp out option would be better, make it not 1 au, but 50 au or even 100 au.
By removing the vanish option of ships in space you would make EVE larger, for the reason that no person would ever go out in 0.0 space for a few hours a day. It would take 20 jumps to get to a certain point and logging off then and find your ship blown up will make many miners stick to the station filled systems and only go out real far in weekends when they can play for hours at end. But it would remove the casual players from the game who now have even abilities with powergamers as people love to call them. __________________________
http://www.nin.com/visuals/thtf_hi.html |
DREAMWORKS
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Posted - 2004.07.12 15:39:00 -
[58]
Edited by: DREAMWORKS on 12/07/2004 15:41:38
Originally by: Sally The whole log on/off exploits just got worse with the latest try to fix something.
The game would be much better if some serious PvP and log on/off timers would be implemented.
Yeah lovely:
CTD, Wait 10 minutes till you can see if your BS surfived the NPC's at a gate...
And it does not remove log off traps, people dont log off the moment they see anyone comming. They remain logged off till someone comes by and how you want to stop someone to log in after 15 minutes waiting?
"Newb buys game: Tries to log on. Welcome to EvE please wait 15 minutes till log in has been completed"
"Newb: **** THIS"
The best way to remove log off traps is not removing the log off part, but the advantage it gives. Thus removing local or make skills to hide yourself in local, remove map display..
Oh and Oveur your remark about ships staying in space isnt one of the brightest, imagine 50.000 accounts their ships still beeing in space (with all the trail accounts there could even be more) THE LAG THE LAG LAAAAAG.
Increasing the warp out option would be better, make it not 1 au, but 50 au or even 100 au.
By removing the vanish option of ships in space you would make EVE larger, for the reason that no person would ever go out in 0.0 space for a few hours a day. It would take 20 jumps to get to a certain point and logging off then and find your ship blown up will make many miners stick to the station filled systems and only go out real far in weekends when they can play for hours at end. But it would remove the casual players from the game who now have even abilities with powergamers as people love to call them. __________________________
http://www.nin.com/visuals/thtf_hi.html |
Wild Rho
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Posted - 2004.07.12 15:40:00 -
[59]
Keep the ships in space when logged out and keep the warp out when "CTD" ahem ahem thing going too. If somone logs you can find them and get them. If they ctd'd when npc hunting theres a good chance they wont die.
Its still not perfect but I doubt this ever will be.
I have the body of a supermodel. I just can't remember where I left it... |
Wild Rho
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Posted - 2004.07.12 15:40:00 -
[60]
Keep the ships in space when logged out and keep the warp out when "CTD" ahem ahem thing going too. If somone logs you can find them and get them. If they ctd'd when npc hunting theres a good chance they wont die.
Its still not perfect but I doubt this ever will be.
I have the body of a supermodel. I just can't remember where I left it... |
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