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Wardo21
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Posted - 2008.12.03 15:19:00 -
[31]
Here's another implementation tip for the orca used to move the ore/ice to station. Align to the station while you're waiting for the hold to fill.
That webber idea is also a good one, I will have to put one on the ships I intend to use.
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Nickodeavich
Caldari Isabella Manufacturing
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Posted - 2008.12.03 17:35:00 -
[32]
Some info I've read seems to indicate that the best ice cycle time you can get (perfect ice mining for both chars with any implants available) with an orca director and a mack is 245 seconds. Does anyone have more info on this?
appreciated.
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Pwett
Minmatar QUANT Corp. QUANT Hegemony
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Posted - 2008.12.03 17:37:00 -
[33]
I get 247 with a director in an EOS without the mining implant, so that does not sound right. _______________ Pwett Founder <Q> QUANT Hegemony
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Girabaldi D'Protagonist
Minmatar In Theory.
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Posted - 2008.12.03 18:12:00 -
[34]
Edited by: Girabaldi D''Protagonist on 03/12/2008 18:13:44 My other character who is an exhumers 5 pilot with 2 Ice Harvester Upgrade II's and Ice Harvester II's on board is currently at 217 sec.
With the Yeti 2 implant I expect it to be in the 205-207 range.
Mind you Girabaldi has
MF 5 MD 5 WFLS 5 and the Mining Mindlink installed ICS 4
Total reduction to cycle time at present is 25.2%
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Krylon Rhae
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Posted - 2008.12.03 18:40:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Kev Hunter Besides, I'm sure you're using auto-scripts to efficiently manage 2 hulks and an orca which is by CCP's TOS illegal. And if that's the case, can we have a moderator come into this thread please? There needs to be some bot/script users that need their accounts banned/cancelled!
As a rookie many many moons ago I remember someone mining with 3 hulks in system with me while I was using a retriver. I thought he must have been a multi-armed robot to manage all of that activity. Now, a couple of years later and I am running 4 accounts (2 hulksters, Iteron V and a new Orca, formerly running in a Vulture).
Once you have the rhytem going it's actually quite easy to manage all of these characters. In fact, giving serious consideration now to adding another Hulkster to my team. Let's see, where did I put that credit card for the new PC?
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DarkonRhoe
Professional Interstellar Support Initiative
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Posted - 2008.12.03 20:10:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Satrani Destiva I have all other relevent skills at 5 on both miner and squad booster but only have industrial command to 4 but to give an idea:
Miner using hulk, T2 lasers amd T2 crystal no booster: Mining amount 883.83 speciality crystal mining amount 1546.71 Activation time 180 sec
Same miner setup with BC booster: Mining amount 1016.41 Speciality crystal mining amount 1778.71 Activation time 139.5 sec
Same miner setup with orca booster Mining amount 1016.41 Speciality crystal mining amount 1778.71 Activation time 134.64 sec
I'd like to see other peoples amounts and times to see if there is any way to improve (other than indy command 5)
now what about factoring in the hardwire mining foreman mindlink
Calmarri
FTW |
Satrani Destiva
Just Another Indy Corp Delinquent Habits
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Posted - 2008.12.03 20:12:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Nickodeavich Some info I've read seems to indicate that the best ice cycle time you can get (perfect ice mining for both chars with any implants available) with an orca director and a mack is 245 seconds. Does anyone have more info on this?
appreciated.
Again I quote that my indy command is only at level 4 but my ice cycle time with a BX-2 imp is 227 sec. My other 2 chars only have the BX-1 imp and their cycle time is 232 sec.
For those extra 5 secs you might ask if it's worth training cybernetics to 5 for the imps, but then every 5 seconds counts as they all add up to quite a hefty bonus.
Originally by: Girabaldi D'Protagonist Edited by: Girabaldi D''Protagonist on 03/12/2008 18:13:44 My other character who is an exhumers 5 pilot with 2 Ice Harvester Upgrade II's and Ice Harvester II's on board is currently at 217 sec.
With the Yeti 2 implant I expect it to be in the 205-207 range.
Mind you Girabaldi has
MF 5 MD 5 WFLS 5 and the Mining Mindlink installed ICS 4
Total reduction to cycle time at present is 25.2%
As for getting the cycle time down to 205-207 you must be using a hulk in which case I can't comment as I use the mack, which has a small cycle handicap for ice, but it does do 4 pieces to the hulks 3. I'm hoping for 224 sec in the mack at indy command lvl5.
By the way while we are all taking about cycle times, does anyone know of a way to fit 2 IHUs to a mack while being able to shield boost? I can only fit the one at the moment. I'm thinking imps for CPU but not sure what they are called. -
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Satrani Destiva
Just Another Indy Corp Delinquent Habits
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Posted - 2008.12.03 20:13:00 -
[38]
Originally by: DarkonRhoe
Originally by: Satrani Destiva I have all other relevent skills at 5 on both miner and squad booster but only have industrial command to 4 but to give an idea:
Miner using hulk, T2 lasers amd T2 crystal no booster: Mining amount 883.83 speciality crystal mining amount 1546.71 Activation time 180 sec
Same miner setup with BC booster: Mining amount 1016.41 Speciality crystal mining amount 1778.71 Activation time 139.5 sec
Same miner setup with orca booster Mining amount 1016.41 Speciality crystal mining amount 1778.71 Activation time 134.64 sec
I'd like to see other peoples amounts and times to see if there is any way to improve (other than indy command 5)
now what about factoring in the hardwire mining foreman mindlink
Sorry that is including the mindlink -
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Pwett
Minmatar QUANT Corp. QUANT Hegemony
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Posted - 2008.12.03 20:19:00 -
[39]
you can use imps - I think it's under the Gypsy series or you can see if the old trick of offlining one of the IHUs, undock, online it. _______________ Pwett Founder <Q> QUANT Hegemony
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Tramp Oline
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Posted - 2008.12.03 20:20:00 -
[40]
I currently run two hulks and an orca and to me the orca was worth every isk.
The extra ore that I bring in from having a 2nd hulk mining instead of having one hulk, a command ship, and a hauler has paid for the ship already.
The ability to hold 136,913 m3 (5 jet cans) of ore without having to dock and without having to worry about ore thieves and can flippers is PRICELESS!
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Kyra Felann
Gallente Noctis Fleet Technologies
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Posted - 2008.12.03 21:56:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Pwett I get 247 with a director in an EOS without the mining implant, so that does not sound right.
Why do people spell 'Eos' with all caps? It's not an acronym and thus should be capitalized just like any other word out there. It's E-os, not E.O.S.
Sorry to get off-topic, but the prevalence of this bugs the hell out of me.
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Rada Ionesco
Caldari Prometheus Industrial
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Posted - 2008.12.03 22:41:00 -
[42]
Not really meaning to comment on the question from OP, but a related question if that's OK with people. I heard you could stack Laser Optimization links and get reduced cycle times. I tried this with my corp members and they said they didn't see any decrease when I turned the second link on. Any body know if two of the same link cancels the second bonus?
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Satrani Destiva
Just Another Indy Corp Delinquent Habits
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Posted - 2008.12.03 23:35:00 -
[43]
The links don't stack. The first one is the only one that works. -
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Tasko Pal
Heron Corporation
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Posted - 2008.12.04 01:08:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Kev Hunter
Originally by: Moonbat Indabrane Edited by: Moonbat Indabrane on 02/12/2008 13:48:34
Originally by: Kev Hunter So... roughly 5 seconds shorter mining cycle time.. what a waste of 1 billion ISK.
What a disappointment.
lol wut?
edit: using the 3 mining foreman boosters we get a cap bonus, a range bonus and RoF bonus... this is a waste exactly how?
In comparison to my alt's bc fully fitted gear and implants and skills... getting 139.5 sec cycle times.. and then spending a bill for the orca + roughly 45-50 mill for the industrial command ships skill.. and wasting the time to get it to lvl 5... only getting 5 seconds shorter of mining cycle times. Yes, that constitutes a waste of ISK and time.
The orca will become cheaper than that. It'll be down to 450-500 mil in a few months too. I figure 420 mil difference over a bc. Another thing to consider is that a 5 second reduction is roughly a 3.5% reduction in cycle time. If a ganged hulk scoops say 8 mil isk an hour when you're there with the bc. Then you get an extra 280k isk per hour per hulk with the orca. That's 1500 hours of mining with the orca. If your hulks are scooping 20 mil/hr (which I've heard some do in 0.0), then that'd drop the necessary number of hours to 600. Either way, a large gang can eventually pay for the orca from that mining bonus alone.
But then we have the other advantage of the orca. Namely that it vastly simplifies can management for haulers (with tractor beams and corporate hangar) and that it can be used as a hauler itself (using a second orca). That reduces the number of people needed to haul and means your gang puts more beams on roids.
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Lyvanna Kitaen
Minmatar Noonday Sun Corp
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Posted - 2008.12.04 03:10:00 -
[45]
I've been using a hybrid approach. I have one character mining in a Hulk, another in an Orca, and a third mines until the Orca is near full and then swaps her mining ship for a hauler from the Orca's bay and hauls until the Orca is empty. She then switches back to mining and the cycle repeats. This allows the Orca to stay on station and boosting and gives an increased overall yield vs the Hulk/Command Ship/Hauler setup. Plus -- no jet cans.
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Krylon Rhae
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Posted - 2008.12.04 03:54:00 -
[46]
Edited by: Krylon Rhae on 04/12/2008 03:54:58
Originally by: Lyvanna Kitaen I've been using a hybrid approach. I have one character mining in a Hulk, another in an Orca, and a third mines until the Orca is near full and then swaps her mining ship for a hauler from the Orca's bay and hauls until the Orca is empty. She then switches back to mining and the cycle repeats. This allows the Orca to stay on station and boosting and gives an increased overall yield vs the Hulk/Command Ship/Hauler setup. Plus -- no jet cans.
Yeppers... works great. I do the miner/hauler switch while in belts only. When I am mining out a mission the roids are sometimes many klicks away from the warp-in point so I just use the hauler to make the trek back to station. Generally a round trip through the gates to the warp-in point almost has the Orca sitting with a full load tractored in from the hulksters ready for the hauler.
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Ralph Larsen
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Posted - 2008.12.04 15:07:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Kev Hunter
Originally by: Morgan Lorus
Isnt it more like, you waste resources when you have a BC with Link just sitting there doing nothing? Instead you could use these resources for hauling, boosting with a little bonus at the same time and never got to deal with canflippers anymore.
I have 3 accounts. One is a miner, one is a mining director, and one is a hauler.
The mining director just idles there and gives mining bonuses. She's equipped with 2 command processors, so all 3 mining foreman links are equipped, active and running.
The hauler hauls.. The miner mines..
If the orca docks, the mining bonuses go away until the orca undocks and re-enables all the mining foreman links.
The investment is still a waste of ISK if it's all for 5 seconds less cycle times. The yield bonus is given in the same percentage proportion as the cycle times... all that time taken discussing the development of this ship was completely wasted and high sec mining is still not going to be efficient.
I've been using a hybrid approach. I have one character mining in a Hulk, another in an Orca, and a third mines until the Orca is near full and then swaps her mining ship for a hauler from the Orca's bay and hauls until the Orca is empty. She then switches back to mining and the cycle repeats. This allows the Orca to stay on station and boosting and gives an increased overall yield vs the Hulk/Command Ship/Hauler setup. Plus -- no jet cans.
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Pluribus Onion
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Posted - 2008.12.04 15:13:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Kev Hunter Besides, I'm sure you're using auto-scripts to efficiently manage 2 hulks and an orca which is by CCP's TOS illegal.
Utter nonsense. I can operate a mining fleet of 4 Hulks, 2 haulers and either a booster BC or Orca, entirely manually and very efficiently. That's seven ships without any macro stuff. What's more, I can also fly a combat patrol, kill rats and loot and salvage the wrecks without any noticeable decrease in mining or hauling. So that's 8 ships run by one person with no macros.
In another context I can fly 7, 8, 9 ships all in different directions on different shopping trips, all at the same time. If you know anything about POSs you know that the non-ice supplies are always in different stations, never together in the same station. So one can either spend hours flying around to buy the supplies, one station at a time, or one can fly multiple ships to buy all the supplies concurrently.
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Grell Holoborg
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Posted - 2008.12.04 15:21:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Girabaldi D'Protagonist ...have one of your macks equiped with a webber. The orca actually spins pretty quick and with the web it warps right away.. so the only slow warp off is from the station..
You will notice that since QR, kicking a ship into warp by use of a webber is not working as well as it used to work. It used to be very consistent and used to act very fast except after undocking, when there was either a significant delay or the large ship had to completely stop or both.
Now the webber trick is highly inconsistent, sometimes having no effect whatsoever, with the large ship taking the full time it would take to turn and get into warp with no webbing, and other times working OK but always taking somewhat longer to get into warp than it used to. This is very noticeable if you fly many jumps with a large ship and a webber escort.
I'm afraid this may be yet another one of those things CCP broke in a patch and didn't notice, and perhaps no longer knows how to fix.
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Lyvanna Kitaen
Minmatar Noonday Sun Corp
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Posted - 2008.12.04 22:11:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Grell Holoborg
You will notice that since QR, kicking a ship into warp by use of a webber is not working as well as it used to work. It used to be very consistent and used to act very fast except after undocking, when there was either a significant delay or the large ship had to completely stop or both.
Now the webber trick is highly inconsistent, sometimes having no effect whatsoever, with the large ship taking the full time it would take to turn and get into warp with no webbing, and other times working OK but always taking somewhat longer to get into warp than it used to. This is very noticeable if you fly many jumps with a large ship and a webber escort.
I'm afraid this may be yet another one of those things CCP broke in a patch and didn't notice, and perhaps no longer knows how to fix.
It seems like I read somewhere that the devs didn't like the web and jump trick and intended to nerf it.
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Noggin TheNog
Minmatar Republic University
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Posted - 2008.12.05 14:50:00 -
[51]
And you've all missed the real point of the Orca, which is to serve as a mobile base of operations for -10 sec status pirates in empire space...
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Girabaldi D'Protagonist
Minmatar In Theory.
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Posted - 2008.12.05 15:12:00 -
[52]
Edited by: Girabaldi D''Protagonist on 05/12/2008 15:15:41
Originally by: Satrani Destiva
Originally by: Nickodeavich Some info I've read seems to indicate that the best ice cycle time you can get (perfect ice mining for both chars with any implants available) with an orca director and a mack is 245 seconds. Does anyone have more info on this?
appreciated.
Again I quote that my indy command is only at level 4 but my ice cycle time with a BX-2 imp is 227 sec. My other 2 chars only have the BX-1 imp and their cycle time is 232 sec.
For those extra 5 secs you might ask if it's worth training cybernetics to 5 for the imps, but then every 5 seconds counts as they all add up to quite a hefty bonus.
Originally by: Girabaldi D'Protagonist Edited by: Girabaldi D''Protagonist on 03/12/2008 18:13:44 My other character who is an exhumers 5 pilot with 2 Ice Harvester Upgrade II's and Ice Harvester II's on board is currently at 217 sec.
With the Yeti 2 implant I expect it to be in the 205-207 range.
Mind you Girabaldi has
MF 5 MD 5 WFLS 5 and the Mining Mindlink installed ICS 4
Total reduction to cycle time at present is 25.2%
As for getting the cycle time down to 205-207 you must be using a hulk in which case I can't comment as I use the mack, which has a small cycle handicap for ice, but it does do 4 pieces to the hulks 3. I'm hoping for 224 sec in the mack at indy command lvl5.
By the way while we are all taking about cycle times, does anyone know of a way to fit 2 IHUs to a mack while being able to shield boost? I can only fit the one at the moment. I'm thinking imps for CPU but not sure what they are called.
Nope I do this in a mack.. the only thing missing from my mack pilot is the yeti implant.. and I will have that within 22 days or so after i finish some other training..
I think 206 sec is as low as you can go.. and since they made the changes to the mack it allows you to use 2 IHU II's that's why you can do it without spending the isk for the uber mods..
The webber trick works just fine.. We used it for the 22 jump run from Jita to home and we use it in the belt..
And for the gentleman with the hauler in the bay.. that is a pretty good Idea... will look into that maybe utilize one of our nubbling miners for that purpose until he is fully mack trained
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Harry Caray
Caldari Windy City Mineral Group New Eden Research
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Posted - 2008.12.05 16:48:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Nickodeavich Some info I've read seems to indicate that the best ice cycle time you can get (perfect ice mining for both chars with any implants available) with an orca director and a mack is 245 seconds. Does anyone have more info on this?
appreciated.
i was in an orca boosted gang last week. i have exhumers V, T2 ice harvesters, 2 X T2 ice harvester upgrades, the Yeti 5% implant, and using a mackinaw. my cycle time without gang was around 276sec. with the fleet it was down to 204sec.
i do not know what the orca pilots skills were, it was just a friendly corp in the belts offering a free boost
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Lord Fitz
Project Amargosa
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Posted - 2008.12.06 09:10:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Lyvanna Kitaen It seems like I read somewhere that the devs didn't like the web and jump trick and intended to nerf it.
They don't like it and they do. Promotes team work, wasn't intended to work that way. However there's not much they can do about it without making each ship have a minimum time to warp or something. Because currently the way you get into warp is to be > 75% speed and be aligned in the correct direction. When you are stopped (after jumping through a gate for instance) you have 0 velocity and so are aligned in all directions. Ships don't actually 'turn' in eve, they simply alter their velocity, webbing affecting speed means that you get to 75% speed very quickly, given that your top speed is greatly reduced. _____________________________
░▒▓ ORCAs Available Early and Cheap ▓▒░ |
Clansworth
Burning Sky Labs Libertas Fidelitas
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Posted - 2008.12.06 10:51:00 -
[55]
Edited by: Clansworth on 06/12/2008 10:53:55 Not sure if a definitive answer was given yet, but Max Ice Harvesting Yield is as follows: Best Possible Cycle Times: Leader Mackinaw Hulk None 276.6 250.8 BC/CS 214.3 194.3 Orca 205.0 185.9 Rorqual 198.8 180.2
Yield in Blocks/Hour with max fit/skills: Leader Mackinaw Hulk None 52.07 43.07 BC/CS 67.18 55.57 Orca 70.24 58.10 Rorqual 72.44 59.92
This is based on the harvester having Ice Harvesting V, Exhumers V, 'Yeti' BX-2 Implant, and 2 Ice Harvester Upgrade II's. The Director has Mining Director V, Warfare Link Specialist V, Mining Foreman Mindlink, and Industrial Command Ships V or Capital Industrial Ships V (where applicable).
System Influence |
Kyra Felann
Gallente Noctis Fleet Technologies
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Posted - 2008.12.06 21:20:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Lyvanna Kitaen I've been using a hybrid approach. I have one character mining in a Hulk, another in an Orca, and a third mines until the Orca is near full and then swaps her mining ship for a hauler from the Orca's bay and hauls until the Orca is empty. She then switches back to mining and the cycle repeats. This allows the Orca to stay on station and boosting and gives an increased overall yield vs the Hulk/Command Ship/Hauler setup. Plus -- no jet cans.
This is exactly what I was considering and you're the only person that I've seen mention it. People seem to forget that the Orca can hold assembled ships. I haven't figured the effiency of doing this versus other methods, but it seems pretty logical to me. I'd imagine the Orca would take a while to fill before someone would have to switch out to haul, and the miners could even take turns hauling.
For large ops, a dedicated hauler would be a must, but for just a few barges and an Orca I'd think this'd be a good method.
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Kyra Felann
Gallente Noctis Fleet Technologies
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Posted - 2008.12.06 21:23:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Ralph Larsen I've been using a hybrid approach. I have one character mining in a Hulk, another in an Orca, and a third mines until the Orca is near full and then swaps her mining ship for a hauler from the Orca's bay and hauls until the Orca is empty. She then switches back to mining and the cycle repeats. This allows the Orca to stay on station and boosting and gives an increased overall yield vs the Hulk/Command Ship/Hauler setup. Plus -- no jet cans.
I'm confused. Is this an epic quoting failure or did you just copy and paste someone else's post as your own?
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Satrani Destiva
Just Another Indy Corp
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Posted - 2008.12.06 23:32:00 -
[58]
She said-
Originally by: Lyvanna Kitaen I've been using a hybrid approach. I have one character mining in a Hulk, another in an Orca, and a third mines until the Orca is near full and then swaps her mining ship for a hauler from the Orca's bay and hauls until the Orca is empty. She then switches back to mining and the cycle repeats. This allows the Orca to stay on station and boosting and gives an increased overall yield vs the Hulk/Command Ship/Hauler setup. Plus -- no jet cans.
Then he said
Originally by: Ralph Larsen
Originally by: Kev Hunter
Originally by: Morgan Lorus
Isnt it more like, you waste resources when you have a BC with Link just sitting there doing nothing? Instead you could use these resources for hauling, boosting with a little bonus at the same time and never got to deal with canflippers anymore.
I have 3 accounts. One is a miner, one is a mining director, and one is a hauler.
The mining director just idles there and gives mining bonuses. She's equipped with 2 command processors, so all 3 mining foreman links are equipped, active and running.
The hauler hauls.. The miner mines..
If the orca docks, the mining bonuses go away until the orca undocks and re-enables all the mining foreman links.
The investment is still a waste of ISK if it's all for 5 seconds less cycle times. The yield bonus is given in the same percentage proportion as the cycle times... all that time taken discussing the development of this ship was completely wasted and high sec mining is still not going to be efficient.
I've been using a hybrid approach. I have one character mining in a Hulk, another in an Orca, and a third mines until the Orca is near full and then swaps her mining ship for a hauler from the Orca's bay and hauls until the Orca is empty. She then switches back to mining and the cycle repeats. This allows the Orca to stay on station and boosting and gives an increased overall yield vs the Hulk/Command Ship/Hauler setup. Plus -- no jet cans.
Which was picked up by
Originally by: Kyra Felann
Originally by: Ralph Larsen I've been using a hybrid approach. I have one character mining in a Hulk, another in an Orca, and a third mines until the Orca is near full and then swaps her mining ship for a hauler from the Orca's bay and hauls until the Orca is empty. She then switches back to mining and the cycle repeats. This allows the Orca to stay on station and boosting and gives an increased overall yield vs the Hulk/Command Ship/Hauler setup. Plus -- no jet cans.
I'm confused. Is this an epic quoting failure or did you just copy and paste someone else's post as your own?
I can't believe no-one else saw it sooner. Brilliant.
/derail. -
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abraheam
Dirty Denizens
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Posted - 2008.12.08 00:16:00 -
[59]
Edited by: abraheam on 08/12/2008 00:21:11 I have not bought an Orca yet, but I will if I ever mine again.
A three account mining gang would recieve a pretty big upgrade to the operation. Replacing the itty 5 hauler with an Orca adds ore through its bonuses, ore that was not there before. It is essentialy a combination of a command ship, and an itty 5 on steroids. Any additional ore would go directly to paying off the added cost of the Orca.
The mining bonus of the Orca (you lose a little when you haul, but it is still a good enough), saved hauler reps (most important to me), tractor beam enhancements for management, and a little more immunity from can flippers is enough to justify the cost of an Orca. I do not operate as a minmaxer in real operations, and I dont mind being in investments for the long haul if the investment is me.
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