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Praytell
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Posted - 2008.12.03 14:26:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Captain Pompous
Originally by: Praytell Try not to ask questions... even though (for the ******ed people that say dont ask questions about carrier or you dont need to fly one) you should ask questions cause thats how you learn.
LOGICAL INCONSISTENCY DETECTED
Ill take the hit from that one but let me clerify myself some... Don't ask questions about the carriers unless you want to get flamed... in example our friend Pompous... he gave no good input only flame... ******ed...
See not even asking questions myself and Im getting flamed... what the heck...
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Neddy Fox
Gallente Paxton Industries Paxton Federation
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Posted - 2008.12.03 15:25:00 -
[32]
Edited by: Neddy Fox on 03/12/2008 15:25:11
Originally by: Sir Substance
regular drone boats cannot use them
Says who ? You cannot FIT them into your dronebay.. But they surely can USE them (when assigned).
Fighters are put into the DRONEBAY of a carrier. They are handled exactly like drones , with the addition that you can assign them to other players (who have to dock their DRONES to be able to handle them), and then are handled in the DRONES overview.
Yes, RP wise they are piloted, but by forgetting to mention that to the OP he might think he need extra accounts for the fighters, and that's not true.
---- [PXIN Recruiter]
PXIN Recruitement thread |
Praytell
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Posted - 2008.12.03 15:27:00 -
[33]
See very nice input ^^^^^^^^
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Janu Hull
Caldari Terra Incognita Ethereal Dawn
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Posted - 2008.12.03 16:00:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Karille It's a capital ship Jones. By the time you train for it you should probably have some idea of how to fit a ship.
As if a new carrier pilot will know the performance differences between drones and fighters without ever launching them? I'm sure that knowledge just magically imprints in their brain right?
Farking idiot. In the event of an emergency, my ego may be used as a floatation device.
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Janu Hull
Caldari Terra Incognita Ethereal Dawn
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Posted - 2008.12.03 16:02:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Captain Pompous
Originally by: Praytell Try not to ask questions... even though (for the ******ed people that say dont ask questions about carrier or you dont need to fly one) you should ask questions cause thats how you learn.
LOGICAL INCONSISTENCY DETECTED
Stemming more from the moronic responses from people when someone asks about capital fittings than anything else. Mix a healthy dose of EVE paranoia with the elitist attitudes of embarassed veteran capital pilots who learned by doing without asking (rather expensive mistake, that) and newer pilots tend to get a little crossed up. In the event of an emergency, my ego may be used as a floatation device.
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Khandara Seraphim
StarHunt Fallout Project
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Posted - 2008.12.03 16:10:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Sheriff Jones Edited by: Sheriff Jones on 03/12/2008 08:55:45 I have to ask, if noone ever asks these questions, is the only way to "be ready" to fly a cruiser, to magically acquire the "holey books of Khazzy'dum'di'dum" and read it in the pitch black shadow of amarr prime?
How the HELL are you ready to fly a carrier, if you can't ask questions if you don't ask these questions? By flying and dying in it?!
No wait, if you don't know how to fly one, you can't fly one to learn it, as you can't fly one without knowing how one works. Which you can't ask anyone
Tbh, I think you should have prior knowledge of how to fly a carrier before you get in one. I can't fly a carrier yet but I still know all the answers to those questions anyway. If you're training up to fly a carrier and you can't observe other people and get the answers you need, then ask your corpmates. If you aren't in a corp with people who know about capitals... then once again you shouldn't be in one.
The OP isn't asking a question like "should i swap out this EANM for a DCU" or another specific carrier fitting question that inspires real debate, he's asking questions like "how do fighters work" that could have been answered in 2 seconds in corp chat.
I don't want to be rude or anything but a carrier is a significant investment and pilots should be made aware that significant game experience is needed before you can fly one safely.
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Janu Hull
Caldari Terra Incognita Ethereal Dawn
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Posted - 2008.12.03 16:12:00 -
[37]
Anyway, to the question in the OP.
As mentioned elsewhere, anyone in your fleet can use them if you assign them.
Fighters behave VERY differently from drones in some respects, which should affect your decision to send them out.
1) Fighters will only engage one target at a time. You must tell them to aggress the next target, they will not attack and move on like drones. Fighters WILL attack any target that initiates combat against you, if they are already deployed when you're aggressed. After which, they'll sit there like idiots awaiting instructions. A caveat, the one, single fighter who is attacked by another player or NPC will defend itself against that target. The others will sit there like idiots.
2) Fighters only pull back from a target one at a time. If you have seven fighters on a target, they will not all pull back at once when you tell them to return. This can be a pain when you're trying to save them in a battle after they've been aggressed. On the flip side, if you tell them to attack, they all attack en masse.
3) Fighters only dock up one at a time when you give the command "Return To Drone Bay". Keep that in mind when you go to leave an area or jump out. Calling back ten fighters can be a real pain in the doodads.
4) Fighters will follow you into warp. This is a nice feature.
5) Fighters will dock up if you disconnect with them deployed. Crashing to desktop with the fighters out will not leave them there like idiots. I love this feature. On the other hand, if they're out during a server crash, they will be abandoned. If that happens, you can petition for their return, CCP will give them back if they're lost to this. I had six replaced recently when a server crashed during a battle and I returned to see an Ev0ke player happily blasting them as they sat abandoned.
6) If you delegate fighters to someone else then cloak up, the figters will be abandoned immediately. Yeah, this means you might have them stranded in the middle of a system somewhere and will have to scan them down or pray you can get them before they get offed. If you have a cloaking device equipped, move it off the main line of modules so you don't hit it accidentally, its a farking mess when you push the wrong F button.
Hope that explains things a little for you. In the event of an emergency, my ego may be used as a floatation device.
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Janu Hull
Caldari Terra Incognita Ethereal Dawn
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Posted - 2008.12.03 16:17:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Khandara Seraphim If you aren't in a corp with people who know about capitals... then once again you shouldn't be in one.
Yes, God forbid a new and upcoming bunch of players dare to play the capital game without the approval of the established player base.
Please get your head out of your arse, it really makes you look stupid when you spew this kind of crap out. In the event of an emergency, my ego may be used as a floatation device.
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Khandara Seraphim
StarHunt Fallout Project
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Posted - 2008.12.03 16:25:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Janu Hull
Originally by: Khandara Seraphim If you aren't in a corp with people who know about capitals... then once again you shouldn't be in one.
Yes, God forbid a new and upcoming bunch of players dare to play the capital game without the approval of the established player base.
Please get your head out of your arse, it really makes you look stupid when you spew this kind of crap out.
I don't think it's possible to learn the ins and outs of capitals unless you're in a corp with capital pilots so you can see how they operate.
Sure, read all the guides and forum posts you want but when it comes to actually flying the things the people that tend to post these threads are also the ones that end up in comedy lossmails on crime and punishment.
Carriers are NOT solo ships. You need friends that understand how carriers work if you want to survive undocking. Thats not arrogance, thats just how it is.
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Janu Hull
Caldari Terra Incognita Ethereal Dawn
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Posted - 2008.12.03 16:36:00 -
[40]
Edited by: Janu Hull on 03/12/2008 16:39:50
Originally by: Khandara Seraphim Sure, read all the guides and forum posts you want but when it comes to actually flying the things the people that tend to post these threads are also the ones that end up in comedy lossmails on crime and punishment.
What you call "comedy lossmails" are also known as "the learning curve".
Quote: Carriers are NOT solo ships. You need friends that understand how carriers work if you want to survive undocking. Thats not arrogance, thats just how it is.
Some of us carrier pilots are in a position to treat them like any other ships. Hell, it only takes about two or three hundred million in the bank to replace a platinum insured carrier. So what, other than some kind of pathetic peer pressure worry over looking less-than-cool, or fear of reprisals over a killboard appearance by a fleet commander with e-peen issues, would keep them docked?
Me, I've lost two of them since I first launched in April of this year, replaced both of them within three days each time. The first was embarassing, but I got over it faster than the rest of the people in the alliance. When the second one went down, I felt worse for the cargo I lost for an alliance mate's POS than I did the damned carrier. This one I'm in now has been in a dozen battles, had its shield tank broken and survived, has been used for belt ratting, and even did tank duty on mining ops.
Its a ship, and if its a ship you're that worried about losing, you shouldn't be flying it. I never did understand or agree with the elitist attitudes that capital pilots get with people.
Harsh message follows:
YOU ARE NOBODY SPECIAL BECAUSE YOUR SHIP'S ASS IS TOO FAT TO FIT THROUGH A STARGATE!!!!
I've heard stories of carrier pilots actually telling their alliance members that using their beloved boat to help them on anything other than a capital op was "beneath them". Utter crock. In the event of an emergency, my ego may be used as a floatation device.
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Sokratesz
Rionnag Alba Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2008.12.03 17:01:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Janu Hull
Some of us carrier pilots are in a position to treat them like any other ships. Hell, it only takes about two or three hundred million in the bank to replace a platinum insured carrier. So what, other than some kind of pathetic peer pressure worry over looking less-than-cool, or fear of reprisals over a killboard appearance by a fleet commander with e-peen issues, would keep them docked?
Then they can do that on their own and not in a fleet with me where i might at some point depend on them.
Wyvern & Chimera fitting flowchart |
Praytell
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Posted - 2008.12.03 17:05:00 -
[42]
I think you should be able to fly the carrier solo. Nothing wrong with that! I've been throwing some setups around with that kinda stuff.
Back to the fighters with the idea of solo pvp in mind.
Instead of using fighters when it comes down to it throw out some t2 heavy drones. Not really my idea but It helps to throw them out against your enemy bs.
The real fact is that your fighters are usually targeted first since most pilots knwo thats the only way a carrier has any dmg.
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Alekseyev Karrde
Noir.
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Posted - 2008.12.03 17:12:00 -
[43]
Go fight a few, then go fight with a few in your gang. By that point, you should have a better idea of what to do in the pilot seat. ---
Zombie Apocalypse Guitar-Wielding Superteam |
Xindi Kraid
Cerulean Sky Fire Industries
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Posted - 2008.12.03 17:34:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Bellum Eternus Additionally to SJ's very excellent points, carrier fits vary widely depending on if they're to be used solo, in small gangs, large fleets etc. and what types of targets they're going to be going up against.
Capital ships are fleet support ships, flying one solo is irresponsible. The carrier is a gigantic logistics ship. Would you fly Basilisk or Oneiros alone?
Even with a full load of drones, the damage output of a carrier is not much more than a battleship or two, but is much more expensive.
Originally by: Khandara Seraphim
Tbh, I think you should have prior knowledge of how to fly a carrier before you get in one. I can't fly a carrier yet but I still know all the answers to those questions anyway. If you're training up to fly a carrier and you can't observe other people and get the answers you need, then ask your corpmates. If you aren't in a corp with people who know about capitals... then once again you shouldn't be in one.
This Obviously you don't have to be a carrier expert to fly one, but it takes a year to train the skills to fly a carrier properly. In that year you should have picked up on some knowledge on how drones and fighters operate, as well as how to properly tank and fit. It's not that you shouldn't ask questions, it's just that capital ships are too expensive to waste on players who don't have intricate knowlege of the workings of EvE, how to fit, how to use modules, combat tactics, etc. -Xindi Kraid CSFI lead engineer and shipwright
Improve POS cargo access |
Omarvelous
Caldari Destry's Lounge
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Posted - 2008.12.03 18:03:00 -
[45]
Its a glorified LOGISTICS ship.
You SHOULD be using it to help your gang mates out.
A full gank carrier still does pathetic dps compared to its tank. Most combat ships have a high damage to tank ratio. That should be a red flag on trying to use it mainly as a combat ship.
You should fit it for survival and ability to provide tank to your friends.
Fighters are best used ASSISTING others. Assign them out to your fast lockers to give them extra dps.
Your focus should be on keeping your friends alive.
Fighters will go to warp chasing down a hostile. That means keep an eye on them to prevent them from getting shredded by sentry/POS guns.
Fighters are slow and have sub-standard tracking. Use them to kill large slow targets (battlecruisers/battleships) that are relatively near to you.
They're expensive - keep an eye on them.
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Janu Hull
Caldari Terra Incognita Ethereal Dawn
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Posted - 2008.12.03 18:50:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Sokratesz
Originally by: Janu Hull
Some of us carrier pilots are in a position to treat them like any other ships. Hell, it only takes about two or three hundred million in the bank to replace a platinum insured carrier. So what, other than some kind of pathetic peer pressure worry over looking less-than-cool, or fear of reprisals over a killboard appearance by a fleet commander with e-peen issues, would keep them docked?
Then they can do that on their own and not in a fleet with me where i might at some point depend on them.
Of course, it goes without saying that the FC is God when you're on an op, and may he be merciful if you aren't kitted out and following instructions to the letter.
I was referring to the time when you're on your own between ops. In the event of an emergency, my ego may be used as a floatation device.
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Janu Hull
Caldari Terra Incognita Ethereal Dawn
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Posted - 2008.12.03 19:04:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Omarvelous Its a glorified LOGISTICS ship.
You SHOULD be using it to help your gang mates out.
A full gank carrier still does pathetic dps compared to its tank. Most combat ships have a high damage to tank ratio. That should be a red flag on trying to use it mainly as a combat ship.
You should fit it for survival and ability to provide tank to your friends.
Fighters are best used ASSISTING others. Assign them out to your fast lockers to give them extra dps.
Your focus should be on keeping your friends alive.
Fighters will go to warp chasing down a hostile. That means keep an eye on them to prevent them from getting shredded by sentry/POS guns.
Fighters are slow and have sub-standard tracking. Use them to kill large slow targets (battlecruisers/battleships) that are relatively near to you.
They're expensive - keep an eye on them.
Sounds about right. Usually I prefer one Drone Control Unit and a pair of Capital Shield Transporters. Gives me 10 fighters for two full sets for gang mates, and my current set up is cap stable with one CST constantly running. The second one can be turned on as needed if things get really out of hand.
For close in encounters with annoying frigates, a full rack of Warrior IIs will make most of them reconsider sticking their head up your butt. Even more fun is two Webber drones and Warriors, but given that Webber drones are based on Berserkers, you need to catch them not looking to get snagged.
If your fleet can handle the DPS, its not a bad idea to carry repair drones that offset your carrier's strength. In my case, I have a selection of Armor Repper drones in all sizes to complement my own shield rep.
Oh, and if you're not wanting to see your fighters warping off to die, there's a setting in the Drone Options (the little white triangle on the Drone window) that can turn off Attack and Follow for fighters.
You can thank me with a generous donation for that one. In the event of an emergency, my ego may be used as a floatation device.
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Haradgrim
Tyrell Corp INTERDICTION
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Posted - 2008.12.03 20:10:00 -
[48]
The idea of knowing how to fly and fit a carrier before ever getting in it is pretty simple; if you have been active in fleet pvp you will know the strengths and limitations of pretty much every ship, simply because you need to know how to deal with them on the field.
Once you know what a ship does, figuring out how to fit it and how to fly it is just putting 2 + 2 together. Also, fitting carriers depends greatly on what they are going to be used for, i.e. are you a small fleet hot dropping gatecamps or repping a pos? The best thing you can do is watch and learn from other carrier pilots while you fly something slightly cheaper to replace and once you have a good idea about carrier tactics you should know what you want to look for in a fitting. If you need to be told shield tank Caldari ships and Armor tank Amarr ships then you shouldn't be flying one in the first place.... --
Originally by: CCP Oveur Just donęt forget the reach-around.
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