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Jessica Sweetwater
Dark Eternity.
0
|
Posted - 2012.04.10 01:35:00 -
[1] - Quote
Hiya
So i was sat with 7 other eve players in our local pub n we were discussing ideas to get new players into eve. We found that most of our friends had quit because
1. Any corp under a month old they joined got war decced 2. Newbie corp tax way to high 3. Lack of real interest from the community in new players.
So we got to thinking and ended up back at my house and decided to put some real thought into the idea of portecting new players WITHOUT comprimising the game. So here is our idea outlined in detail below.
When player A starts the game, he/she has a very confusing time for the first week. But after that he/she becomes more confident. They perhaps decide to start a PvE based corp with a PvP undertone or perhaps watch youtube videos and decide to go for full scale PvP.
But after 3 days of starting said corp, bam, griefer war dec comes in. 10 pilots (all alts) flying T3 cruisers, his 5 new recruits and himself could not possibly match up to that with there skills, so they give it a shot anyway, fail and player A decides, why bother?
Player A then shuts his corp down, is angry at the game and quits. The worrying thing is, that corp, that single idea has been shattered, we know that EvE is not real but the player is demorilized and suddenly realises how far he has to go and decides that if he can't run his own corp to recruit players who have simliar play styles to him/times etc, what's the point? So he quits.
Player A, given a month could have made a huge impact on the game, we don't know. He was never given the chance.
So here is what we propose
If a player is under 2 months old and creates a corp, that corp should be given a months protection from war decs. You can call the said protection what ever it is you like. But, if would give ground and time to new corps to grow, a month period were they could in effect, choose a path and go for it. Call it, say, Concord Paid protection (could even cost players ISk).
But with this comes conditions. If this player wants to use this system (and yes it would be optional for the ceo to *tick* the box) he/she would have to recruit at least two players per week. If no one joined the corp after say 1 week the protection was automatically lifted by concord.
We personally think this could in effect give a drive to the game and allow players to make there own corps, grow, skill and run as a team. It would also bring in new players and could potentially from the butterfly effect bring a whole new breed of corps heading out to 0.0 to join alliances.
It is easy to dismiss this idea as *newbie love* but that is not it. It's about potentially sorting new players into the game, giving them that drive to make a corp with friends who join with them and have a months period to play the game for what it is.
Ofc this idea would only be avalible to players ONCE, so they couldnt just leave the corp after 29 days n start again, they would only have this option once, on any account, so no alt pee taking etc.
Anyway, we think this could be a good idea and could lead to a good drive in new players for eve. |
mxzf
Shovel Bros
1172
|
Posted - 2012.04.10 01:52:00 -
[2] - Quote
Well, your first mistake was trying to sit down and figure out how to solve the game after going out drinking.
As to the idea, the issue is that it's very exploitable by older players (make a corp with an alt, join with your carebear main, repeat each month) and doesn't actually address the core issue (if anything, it makes it worse).
The issue isn't newbie corps getting attacked, the issue is newbies making corps thinking that it's just a social group like guilds in any other game. Corps are significant things in Eve and have penalties as well as benefits. Making them temporarily invulnerable for 30d does nothing but set them up for a harsh lesson during the inevitable wardec on day 31 (and that causes an "if you give a mouse a cookie" situation, which only hurts the game).
Also, I've introduced a bunch of players to the game and there were only two reasons that any of them left. a. RL taking priority (time or financially) b. Eve not being the game for them (some people are more inclined to play FPS games and such)
This would suggest to me that the reason people leave the game isn't due to getting attacked while young, many people I know have survived that and been stronger for it, it's a lack of mentorship and understanding of the game.
The solution isn't to hand out a temporary and misleading safety blanket for people who are doing something they shouldn't do in the first place (starting a corp before they're ready), the solution is to teach people more about Eve and help them find their path. |
Jessica Sweetwater
Dark Eternity.
0
|
Posted - 2012.04.10 02:14:00 -
[3] - Quote
Quote
As to the idea, the issue is that it's very exploitable by older players (make a corp with an alt, join with your carebear main, repeat each month) and doesn't actually address the core issue (if anything, it makes it worse).
You did not read the post. This can ONLY be done ONCE on any ONE account. So unless that player would USE 6 accounts of which CCP could be informed, it is not exploitable. The idea is that you CANNOT have any chars in other corps on your account. They MUST be in the corp you created or that protection cannot be activate if your main/alts are in diffrent corps.
Again, another player who think's i am trying to make EvE like wow or use guild systems. You think of this as a lack of targets, not as to the goal of the post.
Again, i imagine you have a griefer alt. |
Astroniomix
EliteTroll
34
|
Posted - 2012.04.10 02:18:00 -
[4] - Quote
Jessica Sweetwater wrote:Quote
As to the idea, the issue is that it's very exploitable by older players (make a corp with an alt, join with your carebear main, repeat each month) and doesn't actually address the core issue (if anything, it makes it worse).
You did not read the post. This can ONLY be done ONCE on any ONE account. So unless that player would USE 6 accounts of which CCP could be informed, it is not exploitable. The idea is that you CANNOT have any chars in other corps on your account. They MUST be in the corp you created or that protection cannot be activate if your main/alts are in diffrent corps.
Again, another player who think's i am trying to make EvE like wow or use guild systems. You think of this as a lack of targets, not as to the goal of the post.
Again, i imagine you have a griefer alt. Actualy thanks to the buddy program it's realy easy to create a new account each month. |
mxzf
Shovel Bros
1172
|
Posted - 2012.04.10 02:28:00 -
[5] - Quote
You're making faulty assumptions. I don't really care about trying to attack newbie alts, griefing isn't interesting to me and trying to grief newbie corps would be doubly so since they wouldn't even have the ISK for a proper ransom. What I am interested in, however, is getting newbies into the game. Not a little corner of the game with safety bumpers and padding, but the game itself.
The issue I have with your proposal is that it lets newbies think that corps are at all safe things. They aren't. Being in a corp is just as dangerous as anything else in the game, LYING to newbies about the safety of corps (by trying to protect them with padding) does nothing to solve the real issue (their lack of understanding of the game itself) and simply perpetuates it (by making them think that they can be safe).
Also, people could keep creating infinitely safe corps like this by using constant trial accounts to make new corps for free (or, if you suggest making it subbed-only, it's possible to juggle PLEX/Buddy invites to have infinite subbed alts that way). So, yes, it is extremely exploitable. |
betoli
Morior Invictus. KRYSIS.
15
|
Posted - 2012.04.10 13:53:00 -
[6] - Quote
Jessica Sweetwater wrote:Hiya
But after 3 days of starting said corp, bam, griefer war dec comes in.
The real problem is one of a lack of a motivation for high sec wars - ie purpose, objective, etc etc - other than accumulating killmails.
There should be no useful (ie profitable) game mechanic for a vet corp to greif a noob corp, and therefore it should be extremely costly to do this.
|
Velicitia
Open Designs
825
|
Posted - 2012.04.10 15:17:00 -
[7] - Quote
OP, MX is right on his points. Your fixes actually break the game more than help it for the newbies ...
With that said however, the new wardec mechanics that are coming in 2 weeks will probably go a long way to helping remove this trouble ... especially with the fact that all an "elite PVP" hisec corp needs to do is lose one shiny ... |
Aqriue
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
525
|
Posted - 2012.04.10 16:44:00 -
[8] - Quote
Best way to stop dealing with the issue of losing newbies is to stop inviting friends to play EVE or recruit them into your corp. Let joe random sink or swim on their own. After a few months, IF they haven't left already, then you got someone willing to deal with the harsh, gritty, dirty world of EVE online. |
Niko DelValle
Promethium Corp.
12
|
Posted - 2012.04.10 20:10:00 -
[9] - Quote
Guess what Aqriue, that isn't the best way for CCP to make more money. Sometime eventually the older players are gonna get bored, but they're won't be enough of an influx of new players to keep EVE afloat. Not soon I don't think, but it's going to happen eventually if they don't fix the problem with introducing noobs into the game. This is not the signature you're looking for. /This is not the signature I'm looking for. /You will search for other signatures. /I will search for other signatures. / |
Ganthrithor
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
216
|
Posted - 2012.04.11 02:15:00 -
[10] - Quote
Spelling would be nice! |
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Bluddwolf
Heimatar Military Industries
5
|
Posted - 2012.04.11 03:18:00 -
[11] - Quote
I think part of the problem with recruiting is the misleading impression given my the Employment History. I'll use mine as an example:
CURRENT CORPORATION Heimatar Military Industries [HEMI] from 2012.03.11 22:39 to this day
PREVIOUS CORPORATION(S)
Quote:Riffraff Consortium (Closed) from 2012.02.20 17:44 to 2012.03.11 22:39.
Quote:Seventh Exploration and Engagement Command [7COM] from 2011.01.11 02:16 to 2012.02.20 17:44. Brutor Tribe from 2011.01.11 01:55 to 2011.01.11 02:16. Seventh Mining and Industry Recon Force (Closed) from 2010.12.18 12:35 to 2011.01.11 01:55.
Quote:Brutor Tribe [B] from 2010.12.18 12:32 to 2010.12.18 12:35. [b]Insurgent Uprising (Closed) from 2009.09.12 03:08 to 2010.12.18 12:32.
Quote:East Khanid Trading [EKT] from 2009.08.29 01:16 to 2009.09.12 03:08. Khanid Guard [KGM] from 2009.04.19 12:11 to 2009.08.29 01:16. East Khanid Trading [EKT] from 2009.03.02 20:39 to 2009.04.19 12:11.
Quote:Brutor Tribe [B] from 2009.03.02 20:18 to 2009.03.02 20:39. Tribal Defense Logistics Inc [TDLI] from 2008.10.20 22:46 to 2009.03.02 20:18. Brutor Tribe [B] from 2008.10.20 22:24 to 2008.10.20 22:46. 17th Minmatar Tactical Wing [17TW] from 2008.09.20 19:26 to 2008.10.20 22:24. Tribal Liberation Force [TLIB] from 2008.09.20 14:04 to 2008.09.20 19:26. Brutor Tribe [B] from 2008.09.13 20:59 to 2008.09.20 14:04. Tribal Liberation Force [TLIB] from 2008.09.05 21:21 to 2008.09.13 20:59. Brutor Tribe [B] from 2008.08.09 05:26 to 2008.09.05 21:21. Tribal Liberation Force [TLIB] from 2008.08.09 05:14 to 2008.08.09 05:26. Brutor Tribe [B] from 2008.08.08 01:18 to 2008.08.09 05:14. WolfPack Guild [WPG] from 2007.10.08 16:47 to 2008.08.08 01:18. Brutor Tribe [B] from 2007.10.08 16:37 to 2007.10.08 16:47. Insurgent Uprising (Closed) from 2007.08.28 02:34 to 2007.10.08 16:37. Brutor Tribe [B] from 2007.08.28 02:21 to 2007.08.28 02:34. WolfPack Guild [WPG] from 2006.09.13 02:52 to 2007.08.28 02:21. Republic Military School [RMS] from 2006.09.13 01:59 to 2006.09.13 02:52.
A number of my corps are closed; still more should be closed; and a few are corps within the same alliance, where I was asked to handle certain leadership positions. Then there are the default NPC corp listings that you are forced to join, before being able to move to another corporation.
I really should have only 6 unique incorporated periods in my history, and 5of them are based on my regional activities (Minmatar, Khanid, Minmatar, Caldari and back to Minmatar).
This makes it difficult to both attract new recruits or to get picked up by a corp as a veteran pilot. I have never been asked to leave a corporation either. Almost every corp I have in my list are closed, or have 1 member left (and should be closed). To join Heimatar Military Industries-á visit website or conatct Bluddwolf in-gamewww.hmi.guildlaunch.com |
Jessica Sweetwater
Dark Eternity.
2
|
Posted - 2012.04.13 14:00:00 -
[12] - Quote
No what the problem is and i have seen this happen
New players join
20+ form a corp
Griefer alts come in
they pwn them
20+ players end up with no isk and no ships
20+ players quit
Griefer alts move to next target
Griefers are in effect buggering up the newbie input into the game because of the way the system works. I dont think corps under 15 members should even be allowed to war dec player corps. It should be a set amount. i.e 4 man corp tries to war dec 5k man alliance
*Sorry, you do not have sufficient members to enter this war dec into concords system*
Also if a corp puts thru a war dec with 18 members etc, if they then drop to 14 concord should immediatley invalidate the wars.
etc |
Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
194
|
Posted - 2012.04.13 14:14:00 -
[13] - Quote
your friends quit because eve != wow and not a single player PVE only game at all. Thats the true reason, not because the game is broken. |
Jessica Sweetwater
Dark Eternity.
2
|
Posted - 2012.04.13 14:16:00 -
[14] - Quote
Robert Caldera wrote:your friends quit because eve != wow and not a single player PVE only game at all. Thats the true reason, not because the game is broken.
None of us has EVER played world of warcraft/everquest or any of those kiddy games
So your argument is flawed
typical ignorant responce
|
Caliph Muhammed
Short Bus Friends
109
|
Posted - 2012.04.13 15:26:00 -
[15] - Quote
Jessica Sweetwater wrote:Robert Caldera wrote:your friends quit because eve != wow and not a single player PVE only game at all. Thats the true reason, not because the game is broken. None of us has EVER played world of warcraft/everquest or any of those kiddy games So your argument is flawed typical ignorant responce
You do not have an inherent right to a successful corporation in EVE. Lesson one.
The best corporations are forged in war. Lesson two.
Create a chat channel with your friends, eat the 11% tax and play unhindered until you can outfit a decent defense force. Lesson three.
A defensive force is step one, non negotiable in corp creation. Without it you are already dead. Lesson four.
EVE is a decade old, will survive another decade and the harsh gameplay culls the incompetent players. The critical mass of above average intelligence creates a very diverse and interesting universe. It isn't changing. Lesson five. |
Jessica Sweetwater
Dark Eternity.
2
|
Posted - 2012.04.13 16:12:00 -
[16] - Quote
Caliph Muhammed wrote:Jessica Sweetwater wrote:Robert Caldera wrote:your friends quit because eve != wow and not a single player PVE only game at all. Thats the true reason, not because the game is broken. None of us has EVER played world of warcraft/everquest or any of those kiddy games So your argument is flawed typical ignorant responce You do not have an inherent right to a successful corporation in EVE. Lesson one. The best corporations are forged in war. Lesson two. Create a chat channel with your friends, eat the 11% tax and play unhindered until you can outfit a decent defense force. Lesson three. A defensive force is step one, non negotiable in corp creation. Without it you are already dead. Lesson four. EVE is a decade old, will survive another decade and the harsh gameplay culls the incompetent players. The critical mass of above average intelligence creates a very diverse and interesting universe. It isn't changing. Lesson five.
Lesson six, TYPICAL ignorant pvp player responce |
Kusum Fawn
State War Academy Caldari State
11
|
Posted - 2012.04.13 16:32:00 -
[17] - Quote
Jessica Sweetwater wrote: Lesson six, TYPICAL ignorant pvp player responce
Lesson seven, we can all count?
I actually don't see a problem with what that other guy said. Eve is not an inherently nice place. The goons have made it even more of a **** show, CCP devs enjoy your tears. This is all well known by the community. and yet
yet there is room for most players if they dont walk into the game expecting things to be done for them. Ive been party to bad corps, Ive watched them fail and on occasion been the cause, but that doesn't mean i go and cry, (well sometimes), it means that i know what to look for in the next group that i create or join.
I like mining corps, they tend to be really relaxed, but they often cant defend themselves. making friends with the local internet heros, isnt that hard, and helping them out on occasion can get you the connections you want for the things you want to do. a week back i got some nullsec alliance people helping me out with a lowsec reaction tower that a new group of locals wanted to kill, simply cause i knew some people in that alliance and they brought their friends.
There have been lots of changes that i disagree with happening to this game, a few that i do agree with. but i have to adapt to the situation not expect someone to revert the game back to what it was in 2008. (cause holy crap there are things i would have loved to do differently in this game)
You have to do things, and will have things done to you. Its a dynamic universe, man up. Learn the game and what to do. |
Kemal Ataturk
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
0
|
Posted - 2012.04.13 17:41:00 -
[18] - Quote
Robert Caldera wrote:your friends quit because eve != wow and not a single player PVE only game at all. Thats the true reason, not because the game is broken.
I am sure CCP would love it if people move on to WOW. Actually thats what happened on some occasions. |
El Shadar
WulfCroix Corps
0
|
Posted - 2012.04.13 17:42:00 -
[19] - Quote
Quote:=Jessica Sweetwater][quote=Robert Caldera]your friends quit because eve != wow and not a single player PVE only game at all. Thats the true reason, not because the game is broken.[/quote
None of us has EVER played world of warcraft/everquest or any of those kiddy game
So your argument is flawe
typical ignorant responc
Kiddy games LAWL. I quit this game today because the whole "We don't hold your hands" is a terrible excuse for poorly thought out game with lack of content. I was first introduced to this game in 2006 by the only guy in my dorm hall who NEVER went out. I saw him stare at his TV all day with his door open with EVE on. He asked if I wanted to join I said Naaaaa just flying around in space endlessly grinding looks pretty stupid. And LULZ 6 years later nothings changed. Problem with this game is that ultimately everything revolves around PVP and pirating and there's nothing else to this game. Everything else you do, you do so to help yourself to PVP. The lack of content means new players are just endless cannon fodder for veteran players with a few billion ISKs. Exactly the way the developers wanted. Every time i'm about to log in I laugh at the server population count, 38k!! Yeah!!. So yeah have fun griefing each other in a game that lacks content because "We don't hold your hands". |
Quade Warren
Urban Mining Corp Rising Phoenix Alliance
10
|
Posted - 2012.04.13 17:53:00 -
[20] - Quote
betoli wrote:Jessica Sweetwater wrote:Hiya
But after 3 days of starting said corp, bam, griefer war dec comes in.
The real problem is one of a lack of a motivation for high sec wars - ie purpose, objective, etc etc - other than accumulating killmails. There should be no useful (ie profitable) game mechanic for a vet corp to greif a noob corp, and therefore it should be extremely costly to do this.
Then maybe change the way killmails work. You can already see both parties, but it takes research to discover that the person with so many kills was in fact farming newbs. Maybe give killmails a rating?
If the gap between Killer A and Prey B is 10 mil sp, Rating is -1 or any arbitrary value as long as it follows a relevant chart. Sum of all your ratings gives someone a perspective of what kind of player you are. You could also have an indicator of whether a kill was solo or a group effort.
I think this idea is broken, though. Many alts are purely combat whereas well invested characters have high SP. The killing will occur regardless, so the rating would eventually become somewhat meaningless.
You get the point, though, right? All killmails are not equal, but they seem to be portrayed as such. |
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Kestrix
UV Heavy Industries
9
|
Posted - 2012.04.13 17:56:00 -
[21] - Quote
The problem as you see it could be resolved by increasing the skill point and isk requirements for forming a corp. Taking the ability away from new starters to creat a corp of their own to start off with.
Another option to encourage new players to remain in the NPC corps longer would be to base the tax % on the players number of SP. New players are taxed at 0% going up for instance in bands of 5 mill sp upto 20 mill + where the player pays the full NPC corp Tax rate. |
Quade Warren
Urban Mining Corp Rising Phoenix Alliance
10
|
Posted - 2012.04.13 18:06:00 -
[22] - Quote
Kestrix wrote:The problem as you see it could be resolved by increasing the skill point and isk requirements for forming a corp. Taking the ability away from new starters to creat a corp of their own to start off with.
Another option to encourage new players to remain in the NPC corps longer would be to base the tax % on the players number of SP. New players are taxed at 0% going up for instance in bands of 5 mill sp upto 20 mill + where the player pays the full NPC corp Tax rate.
I see where you are going, but I think the actual impact would be different. Having an SP floor limit to corporation creation would be just another milestone a newb has to overcome in order to get into the meaty portions of the game. The ability to really control your interaction. Training in real time is already divergent from typical game play in most other MMOs and making one of the most basic components of Eve, the corporation, inaccessible for even longer would just take away from a newbs options.
As for your second point, I'm not sure how I feel about this. Isk earned at lower levels is definitely more valuable in small increments than at higher levels, so you may have a point there. |
Jessica Sweetwater
Dark Eternity.
3
|
Posted - 2012.04.14 17:57:00 -
[23] - Quote
Yes but
They hike the newbie corp tax up so new players leave that corp n join player corps
Then they give griefers better tools to wage warfare in cloaky **** where as i think cloak ships should be unable to be used in high sec full stop, a kinda concord injuction.
Also then the new player WHO WANTS TO PLAY THIS GAME joins a corp, it gets war decced, he ends up back in the newbie corp, rinse n repeat ten times n bam
He's had enuff, he cant get anywhere, older corps dont want under ten mill sp chars anymore and hes stuck jumping bewteen corps because he wants to play an MMO with other people from around the world but he cant
and a exciting side not, his corp history becomes massive
Recruiters dont want him because they wont like his *reasons* for leaving corps and brand them *excuses*
So he quits, 2 months of his money and time wasted |
mxzf
Shovel Bros
1208
|
Posted - 2012.04.14 18:03:00 -
[24] - Quote
Did you read any of my replies? The issue isn't the corps, it's that newbies join corps expecting them to be safe like player groupings in other MMOs are. But they're not. This is a simple fact of Eve that will never change. |
Quade Warren
Urban Mining Corp Rising Phoenix Alliance
10
|
Posted - 2012.04.14 18:14:00 -
[25] - Quote
mxzf wrote:Did you read any of my replies? The issue isn't the corps, it's that newbies join corps expecting them to be safe like player groupings in other MMOs are. But they're not. This is a simple fact of Eve that will never change.
I have to agree with mxzf here. If a newbie can't figure out how to survive in this game, getting war decced in the beginning of his game play is going to be the least of his problems.
They will constantly struggle throughout the entirety of Eve. This is a game for the patient and paranoid. If you are neither, then it'll just suck to be you for awhile.
I admire your attempts to assist with the newbs and to shelter them, but much like sheltered offspring are unprepared to face the wolves, you may only set up newbies for failure with such an umbrella. Eve was made for wolves. The only sheep that last are those that convince the wolves to bite the sheep next to them first. |
Jessica Sweetwater
Dark Eternity.
3
|
Posted - 2012.04.14 18:15:00 -
[26] - Quote
mxzf wrote:Did you read any of my replies? The issue isn't the corps, it's that newbies join corps expecting them to be safe like player groupings in other MMOs are. But they're not. This is a simple fact of Eve that will never change.
Ive seen plenty of your replies in other threads and your a CCP fanboi who is incapable of change, pure fact.
It has nothing to do with new players. If you run an MMO, u should provide new players with a mechanic where they can learn the game without being kill/owned non stop by t3 pilot alts.
At current the rate of growth in this game is slow and the only reason it has high stats is because of the Japan/chinease servers. Tranquality itself is down. 5 years ago before griefing became a major line there where 60k+ people online at the weekends, now we are lucky if u get 40k pilots online.
The machanic needs to change, there are thousands of null sec systems not even being used because alliances don't want players who want to make isk n occasionally pvp. The attitude of alliance leaders in this game is disgusting. CEO's are also key to that aswell.
So the newbies make there own corp n get effed over in 3 days n they quit
Again you are missing the point because you cannot objectivley look at argument from both sides
Only your view matters and that view is right in your opinion |
Quade Warren
Urban Mining Corp Rising Phoenix Alliance
10
|
Posted - 2012.04.14 18:39:00 -
[27] - Quote
Jessica Sweetwater wrote:mxzf wrote:Did you read any of my replies? The issue isn't the corps, it's that newbies join corps expecting them to be safe like player groupings in other MMOs are. But they're not. This is a simple fact of Eve that will never change. Ive seen plenty of your replies in other threads and your a CCP fanboi who is incapable of change, pure fact. It has nothing to do with new players. If you run an MMO, u should provide new players with a mechanic where they can learn the game without being kill/owned non stop by t3 pilot alts. At current the rate of growth in this game is slow and the only reason it has high stats is because of the Japan/chinease servers. Tranquality itself is down. 5 years ago before griefing became a major line there where 60k+ people online at the weekends, now we are lucky if u get 40k pilots online. The machanic needs to change, there are thousands of null sec systems not even being used because alliances don't want players who want to make isk n occasionally pvp. The attitude of alliance leaders in this game is disgusting. CEO's are also key to that aswell. So the newbies make there own corp n get effed over in 3 days n they quit Again you are missing the point because you cannot objectivley look at argument from both sides Only your view matters and that view is right in your opinion
I don't think it's necessary to take this kind of stance. We're all fans of CCP and this game.
I understand what you are asking, but look at it from this perspective. So far CCP has INTENTIONALLY cultivated a game centered around the concepts of capitalism and survival of the fittest. If you change that at any point during a player's career in game, you are ultimately taking away from the model they have created. This will have lasting changes on game play in general.
For instance, what are the long term ramifications? What if people intentionally created alts on each of their accounts and trained the skills necessary to create a short term safe haven? Each account can have three characters. Let's say I pull off a heist and need a short term umbrella to let things cool off for a bit. This will not stop players from being hunted, but it makes our mercenary's job more difficult. Now they'll raise their costs because they have to lose ships to concord in order to destroy their target instead of just declaring war.
Even following your model, two accounts have six characters. That's a year of safety from war decs if someone is smart about it and there is no doubt about an Eve player using every advantage they could possibly have to game the system.
Try attacking the problem, not the symptoms. The symptom is the random war dec because PVPers are either bored or looking to spice up their kill boards. Find ways to fix those problems and newbies will be safe for awhile. |
Katerwaul
The Scope Gallente Federation
2
|
Posted - 2012.04.14 18:47:00 -
[28] - Quote
Jessica Sweetwater wrote:mxzf wrote:Did you read any of my replies? The issue isn't the corps, it's that newbies join corps expecting them to be safe like player groupings in other MMOs are. But they're not. This is a simple fact of Eve that will never change. Ive seen plenty of your replies in other threads and your a CCP fanboi who is incapable of change, pure fact. It has nothing to do with new players. If you run an MMO, u should provide new players with a mechanic where they can learn the game without being kill/owned non stop by t3 pilot alts. At current the rate of growth in this game is slow and the only reason it has high stats is because of the Japan/chinease servers. Tranquality itself is down. 5 years ago before griefing became a major line there where 60k+ people online at the weekends, now we are lucky if u get 40k pilots online. The machanic needs to change, there are thousands of null sec systems not even being used because alliances don't want players who want to make isk n occasionally pvp. The attitude of alliance leaders in this game is disgusting. CEO's are also key to that aswell. So the newbies make there own corp n get effed over in 3 days n they quit Again you are missing the point because you cannot objectivley look at argument from both sides Only your view matters and that view is right in your opinion
That's kind of the point a lot of the time, but I definitely see where you're coming from. The learning curve in eve is very steep, but the issue I've found isn't from the "newbie" corps. The only difference that an extra month dec free will make is that it'll take someone a month longer before they ragequit when their corp is grief-decked and the corp starts bleeding players.
I've been in corps where this happened a lot in my early eve career. You'd work hard to recruit new players & the second a war-deck hits they jump ship.
The npc corps are there to give the players a place to avoid most of the direct conflict that can come with the game. At the same time if a player is so intent on "being the boss" but so impatient that they refuse to wait until they're equipped with the personnel, experience, and required resources to establish, maintain, and defend a corporation then there can be a good chance that they won't survive. The corp directors who don't have the patience for the game often don't really want to run a corporation of people, they want to tell everyone else how to play the game -- and it's always a harsh lesson for everyone involved.
It comes down to identifying what issue you're trying to resolve.
If it's making "a comforting place for new pilots to get started" then I'd recommend working with like-minded combat oriented highsec players to create a space where new players can be fostered.
If it's "delaying wardecs until a player can handle loss" then you're looking at the situation from the wrong perspective. The only way someone can become accustom to a loss is for the loss to occur. No pain, no growth. Working with everyone to improve New Eden -- Internet Spaceships Iz Serious Business. |
Aethlyn
109
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Posted - 2012.04.14 18:54:00 -
[29] - Quote
I think this is one of the many issues you can't solve by strict policies or restrictions ingame without opening up new loopholes somewhere. I agree, something should be done, but to be honest I'd wait for the Inferno changes.
From my understanding, the new wardec system will make it even less costly to wardec new/small corporations, however you'll have the added risk of some merc corp getting involved.
And here's the deal: If said griefers don't understand that griefing new players/corps makes the game worse for everyone, then bigger and more experienced corps (or even whole alliances) should just step in and offer those newbie corps protection or aid for free (or a really small fee).
I'm sure there'll be more merc corps trying to make money off this, however that's something most of these newbies won't be able to pull off either. But on the other hand playing the "good samaritan" (by accepting contracts with low or no costs) will net these corps a positive renown as well as potential new recruits later on. So, instead of telling people to not form their own corps, get them to join yours by showing them the advantages of a big/organized corporation.
This whole issue is something the community as a whole can solve, even if the "bad boys" don't want to change their attitude. Thinking a bit further, corps wardeccing new/small corps will most likely look for easy prey or targets they're able to overwhelm; so why not switching sides and actually helping the start-ups? There are tons of possibilities, that just require some actions by the community once the required stuff is in place (new wardec system/requests for aid). Looking for more thoughts? Read my blog or follow me on Twitter. |
Jessica Sweetwater
Dark Eternity.
3
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Posted - 2012.04.14 19:17:00 -
[30] - Quote
Quade Warren wrote:Jessica Sweetwater wrote:mxzf wrote:Did you read any of my replies? The issue isn't the corps, it's that newbies join corps expecting them to be safe like player groupings in other MMOs are. But they're not. This is a simple fact of Eve that will never change. Ive seen plenty of your replies in other threads and your a CCP fanboi who is incapable of change, pure fact. It has nothing to do with new players. If you run an MMO, u should provide new players with a mechanic where they can learn the game without being kill/owned non stop by t3 pilot alts. At current the rate of growth in this game is slow and the only reason it has high stats is because of the Japan/chinease servers. Tranquality itself is down. 5 years ago before griefing became a major line there where 60k+ people online at the weekends, now we are lucky if u get 40k pilots online. The machanic needs to change, there are thousands of null sec systems not even being used because alliances don't want players who want to make isk n occasionally pvp. The attitude of alliance leaders in this game is disgusting. CEO's are also key to that aswell. So the newbies make there own corp n get effed over in 3 days n they quit Again you are missing the point because you cannot objectivley look at argument from both sides Only your view matters and that view is right in your opinion I don't think it's necessary to take this kind of stance. We're all fans of CCP and this game. I understand what you are asking, but look at it from this perspective. So far CCP has INTENTIONALLY cultivated a game centered around the concepts of capitalism and survival of the fittest. If you change that at any point during a player's career in game, you are ultimately taking away from the model they have created. This will have lasting changes on game play in general. For instance, what are the long term ramifications? What if people intentionally created alts on each of their accounts and trained the skills necessary to create a short term safe haven? Each account can have three characters. Let's say I pull off a heist and need a short term umbrella to let things cool off for a bit. This will not stop players from being hunted, but it makes our mercenary's job more difficult. Now they'll raise their costs because they have to lose ships to concord in order to destroy their target instead of just declaring war. Even following your model, two accounts have six characters. That's a year of safety from war decs if someone is smart about it and there is no doubt about an Eve player using every advantage they could possibly have to game the system. Try attacking the problem, not the symptoms. The symptom is the random war dec because PVPers are either bored or looking to spice up their kill boards. Find ways to fix those problems and newbies will be safe for awhile.
Hence i said it can only be done once per account. Or even say once per IP or once per credit card or whatever it takes to make sure it can only be done once |
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