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Miss Arson
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Posted - 2008.12.04 17:54:00 -
[1]
I was wondering why some people use a passive armor tank for PVP ships.
By this, I mean no armor reppers involved, but instead the usage of plates, EANM, suitcases and damage specific hardeners.
Since armor doesn't recharge like shields do, what is the advantage of going passive armor for PVP scenerios?
At best, you should have remote repair options in your fleet for support, but other than that, is it still viable to use such fits?
What would you say are the pros and cons? What is your preference when it comes to filling up your low slots to compliment your ships armor
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Daveion Steel
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Posted - 2008.12.04 17:57:00 -
[2]
Cap use, this sounds a little like what I would call a Buffer tank, to give enough arnmour to out last your oponent while fitting for gank.
But i'm guessing
D...
Pass that Ammerfore mate, Whats an ammerfore, its for banging in nails you bloody ****fa. Whats a ****fa? Omfg
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Malik77
Caldari Empire Manufacturing
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Posted - 2008.12.04 18:01:00 -
[3]
I have been working on something that will help explain this topic fully, I'll post in an hour or two.
But in the mean time, a plate acts as a repper that has "pre-repped" its armor by increasing the ships base hitpoints significantly. Typically I found that the engagment would have to last quite some time for an armor repper to more valuable than a plate.
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Miss Arson
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Posted - 2008.12.04 18:05:00 -
[4]
I look forward to your future post. Good answers, guys. It seems like it may be more feasible to go passive with a battleship than it would be with a cruiser.
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The Djego
Minmatar merovinger inc
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Posted - 2008.12.04 18:17:00 -
[5]
HP Buffer Tanks + fare less affected by Cap Warfare + better DPS, more Grid and CPU for bigger Weapons, 1-2 Damagemods more while Tank is still ok + better chance of deagressing under heavy Fire + more gank resitance(hitting 2+ Gank ships of the same size is something only very expensive active Tanks will survive) and against focus fire + cheaper since most of the good active Tanks need some Mods for CPU that arnŠt cheap(ANPs or Faction Hardners), real good active Tanks are even more expensive since T2 wonŠt do
- next to any DPS can kill you in the long run - repping after fights without RR in Gangs needs docking and refitting - slower and less agile - only Imps but no booster to boost passive Armor Tanks - exept the resitance Mods no real big improvements you can buy with Money - unimproved by Overheating(EANM, DCs, Plates etc) ---- Nerf Tank - Boost Gank!
Originally by: Amantus Real men don't need to get into blaster range.
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StraightEdge Phoenix
Gallente Flight of One
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Posted - 2008.12.04 18:19:00 -
[6]
Quote: ...It seems like it may be more feasible to go passive with a battleship than it would be with a cruiser.
I would have thought it would be the other way round. Cruiser has less HP to start with, so less time for the reppers to kick in before death?
Just me, no? |
Miss Arson
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Posted - 2008.12.04 18:28:00 -
[7]
Originally by: StraightEdge Phoenix
Quote: ...It seems like it may be more feasible to go passive with a battleship than it would be with a cruiser.
I would have thought it would be the other way round. Cruiser has less HP to start with, so less time for the reppers to kick in before death?
Just me, no?
I see what you are saying there. Pardon me if I was mistaken. I might be putting my foot in my mouth here, but I had a dual rep devoter go down to an absolution recently. I observed that armor reps like a beast when using nano pump rigs with them, but cap usage is awful, even with a cap booster being used. It was mainly this incident that made me start thinking about what the better option was when it came to armor tanking...because I would have expected a heavy interdictor to be more durable than I made it.
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DubanFP
Caldari R.U.S.T.
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Posted - 2008.12.04 18:36:00 -
[8]
1600mm RT plates give thousands of armor and it's relatively easy to fit multiple plate or fit 1 or two oversized plates on a smaller ship. There are 3 main reasons to fit a passive armor plate setup. Keep in mind all of them involve PVP.
1) Massive Buffer Overload- 1 RT plate on a cruiser sized vessel can give as much of a buffer as 2-3 Large shield extenders while using only 1 lowslot leaving plenty of room for hardeners. Cruisers that can fit medium guns with a plate "Rupture" and cruisers with extra damage from no PG drones Thorax/Vexor can fit a massive buffer that is very hard to break within a reasonable time with another cruiser.
2) Full Gank Buffer- If you're flying a full gank setup then you won't want a battle to last longer then a minute. An armor repper won't pay itself off in such a short time so If you need something to simply buy a little more time in a quick high-dps fight then an extra plate can go a long way.
3) RR Battleship- The idea is that in group of battleships everybody in gang fits 1 or two Remote Reppers "remote armor/shield repair". The idea is that you fit a crapload of plates and survive being called primary long enough for your allies, all 30+ of them, to repair you. _______________
"It's not about the look of your ship or the size of your guns. It's about how much **** you can @#$# up with it" |
Faife
Noctiscion
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Posted - 2008.12.04 19:02:00 -
[9]
most PVP fights don't last very long. and when you're shot at, it's usually by 5+ people. no armor repper can help you there. --
i am a humble and inefficient ammo to dps converter |
xXxSatsujinxXx
Ascent of Ages Sc0rched Earth
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Posted - 2008.12.04 20:12:00 -
[10]
Faife started what i wanted to say there - basically, passive armor tanks have come around due to solo/small pvp fading out. Now when you're shot at, it is usually by 5 or more ships...
Lets say you're in a cruiser, and you're rep cycles every 10 seconds, repairing 200 per cycle (not the right numbers i know... but its for simplicitys sake). It'd take 5 ships (lets assume they're cruisers too) less than 30seconds to chew into your armor and for you to start repping it. In those 30 seconds you gain back 2, maybe 3 cycles of armor from your rep, gaining 400-600 armor back before you eventually die.
Now lets assume that an 800mm plate gives you 800hp. In the above situation, it obviously works out better to fit an 800mm plate, since your rep only gained you 400-600hp ontop of your standard hp, whereas the plate gives you a garunteed 800hp more, for no cap usage and lesser fitting.
The question of whether to go passive armor or not is the same as asking yourself "how likely am i to repair more than i gain from a plate?". In some cases its perfectly viable to fit repairers over plates (cap ships for instance), especially on ships with repair bonus. However in most situations where you cannot be assured a 1vs1 fight, fitting a plate will almost always work out better.
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Dr Sheepbringer
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.12.04 21:17:00 -
[11]
I fly frigs and the biggest reasons why I use EANM's are the following:
1) Doesn't use cap, so you can run everything vital. 2) if someone neuts me I'm not instapop, it takes at least a few seconds
Also active tanks take A LOT more slots. Passive ones give you less tank, but with minimal slot usage. In frigs you need those slots. Stop whining. |
Lucian Warchild
Cutthroat Mercenary Corp
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Posted - 2008.12.04 21:43:00 -
[12]
Technically, its not even so much the extra hitpoints that matter. Its the higher resists to negate more damage combined with the extra hitpoints to outlast an enemy. You can slap 7 plates on a Battleship and it will die really fast anyway without solid resists. Crank up the resists and your "Effective" Hitpoints go up, you stay alive longer.
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Miss Arson
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Posted - 2008.12.04 23:41:00 -
[13]
Thanks for all the great answers!
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Presidio
Minmatar Hug Nutz
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Posted - 2008.12.05 00:22:00 -
[14]
Passive tank is also useful for when you're in a lag heavy environment. That's 2 less modules you have to activate. -
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Tandin
Crushed Ambitions
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Posted - 2008.12.05 20:08:00 -
[15]
Pulse geddon with the following lowslots and rigs is a very nasty beast:
Rigs: 3x Trimark Lows: 3x 1600mm Plate DCU II 2x EANM II 2x Heat Sink II
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