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Azrael Dinn
Imperial Mechanics
0
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Posted - 2012.04.10 09:24:00 -
[1] - Quote
Hello everyon
I did not find this idea trough the forums in this way tough the general idea is the same to get more tech 2 blueprint originals into the game
So my proposal is based more on playing the game than passive income. We all know that there are talks that the current research agent system is going to change in some way and like my self i have trained alot to get the skills to use the agents and I would hate it to go to waste
Also I read few threds that the current tech 2 bpo owners control 1/3 of the tech 2 market. Thats ALOT
So from these I came up with this idea. I will not go into figures cause thats ccp:s thing and if this idea would be accepted it would be their job to balance it so I will not go into figures
Ide Making Tech 2 blueprints originals trough hard wor
The excisting agent system would be modified so that you can use agents to do the datacores or you could research tech 2 original blueprints
Making an original would requite minumum of 3 reseach agents combined effort
Forexample Astarte is made by duvolle labs so you would need an agent from that corporation (starship engineerin) then you would need the 2 other agents (mechanical and gallente encryptions) that can be can be from any other corporation. Also you would need the required standings naturaly. You can boost the research by adding more agents of the same types up tho maximun of your skills
The actual research is done with the agents and they will give you missions what you need to do, ask for material and so forth. If you do not provide the agents with the materials they ask the reseach is halted and is on a stand still. They will not ask materials every minute but every now and then
The print would be done from same material what invention uses and tech 2 blueprint research uses. All the materials put into the reseach would be consumed
To balance this with invention so that invention would also be viable option this sould take alot of time and effort. |
Drake Draconis
Nexus Advanced Technologies Fidelas Constans
454
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Posted - 2012.04.10 14:37:00 -
[2] - Quote
Complete waste of time.
Its cheaper to use invention.
Your doing it wrong. ================ Get PAID FOR SPAM! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=78152 |
JitaPriceChecker2
State War Academy Caldari State
86
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Posted - 2012.04.10 14:51:00 -
[3] - Quote
Drake Draconis wrote:Complete waste of time.
Its cheaper to use invention.
Your doing it wrong.
T2 BPO owner spotted
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Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
261
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Posted - 2012.04.10 15:28:00 -
[4] - Quote
We don't need more t2 bpo's....
If anything, just balance invention such that the ME and PE levels of the original BPC are transfered to the invented t2 BPC, albeit with a penalty.... (for example, maybe the invented BPC's ME & PE levels retain 0-5% of the original BPC's ME/PE Levels... with different decryptors offering different percentage levels).
Consumable items are much better for this game than static items, hence BPC's are much better than BPO's...
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Azrael Dinn
The 20th Legion Mildly Sober
0
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Posted - 2012.04.12 09:01:00 -
[5] - Quote
Gizznitt Malikite wrote: We don't need more t2 bpo's....
If anything, just balance invention such that the ME and PE levels of the original BPC are transfered to the invented t2 BPC, albeit with a penalty.... (for example, maybe the invented BPC's ME & PE levels retain 0-5% of the original BPC's ME/PE Levels... with different decryptors offering different percentage levels).
Consumable items are much better for this game than static items, hence BPC's are much better than BPO's...
Well if you think this way then it would be better to remove tech one print also?-¦
An idea about generating more items to the game should be considered. They would be player made. Everything else in the game is also player made so this way you could start to produce something you would like to have. Tough it would consume alot of time and effort. It would be something for those that like to do research. Not everyone likes to shoot things up you know. |
Tallian Saotome
Fractured Core Fatal Ascension
621
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Posted - 2012.04.12 09:26:00 -
[6] - Quote
Azrael Dinn wrote:Gizznitt Malikite wrote: We don't need more t2 bpo's....
If anything, just balance invention such that the ME and PE levels of the original BPC are transfered to the invented t2 BPC, albeit with a penalty.... (for example, maybe the invented BPC's ME & PE levels retain 0-5% of the original BPC's ME/PE Levels... with different decryptors offering different percentage levels).
Consumable items are much better for this game than static items, hence BPC's are much better than BPO's...
Well if you think this way then it would be better to remove tech one print also?-¦ An idea about generating more items to the game should be considered. They would be player made. Everything else in the game is also player made so this way you could start to produce something you would like to have. Tough it would consume alot of time and effort. It would be something for those that like to do research. Not everyone likes to shoot things up you know. T2 BPOs were removed for a reason. I suggest you find out that that reason is before deciding to undo it.
Also, those T2 BPO holders, for the most part, are still trying to break even on the cost of actually getting it. Last I heard it took at least 5 years before you actually hit the break even point. Inappropriate signature removed, CCP Phantom. |
Azrael Dinn
The 20th Legion Mildly Sober
0
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Posted - 2012.04.12 10:28:00 -
[7] - Quote
Tallian Saotome wrote: T2 BPOs were removed for a reason. I suggest you find out that that reason is before deciding to undo it.
Also, those T2 BPO holders, for the most part, are still trying to break even on the cost of actually getting it. Last I heard it took at least 5 years before you actually hit the break even point.
Well CCP. Can you tell us why did you remove Tech 2 blueprint original lottery?
And so what if someone is breaking even after 5 years. The game is changed constantly and when CCP was seeding t2 originals they did not cost anything. You got the originals trough a lottery system a loong loong time ago. Thus the current system is faulty where we have a fixed amount of originals and copies with horrible me levels and competing with the originals is nearly impossible.
And thats why I had idea was to make a new system where people would need to work towards getting bpos and not just randomly get them trough a lottery. This would also add new content to the game for the players that do like carebearing and stuff. And also I'm not saying they should remove the invention system but they should make a system next to it where you could get originals as a reward.
oh here http://community.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&nbid=1532
thats why the lottery was removed. |
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
261
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Posted - 2012.04.12 16:50:00 -
[8] - Quote
I understand youGÇÖre trying to balance manufacturing; however I just donGÇÖt think this is the right way to do it. Truth be told, there are several reasons t2 manufacturing has such a low profit margin. T2 BPO holders always take the ire, as they can always produce items using fewer materials, but there are other ways that t2 markets have been cornered. Many people have cheap sources of moongoo materials, which is why they can produce items far more cheaply than the random indy corp. Other people have very cheap sources of mineralsGǪ. These are just as important at creating highly profitable t2 items as the t2 BPOs (and more-so in many cases).
Here is the MAJOR problem with your suggestion: You crash the T2 BPO market.... --While you feel like t2 BPO's give an unfair advantage to those with them, we are no longer in the environment were people came upon their T2 BPO's by chance. It has been FIVE years since the lottery ended, and the majority of holders have them as investments. Your suggestion doesn't slap the face of some lucky veterans; rather it castrates the industrious players that have spent years accruing their massive wealth. Your belief that most players that have T2 BPOGÇÖs do so because they won them in a lottery is just plain wrong. Most players that have T2 BPOGÇÖs do so because they built a financial empire, and bought them with their hard-earned isk. These are the players youGÇÖre ******* over, and frankly, they donGÇÖt deserve it!!
If you bothered to examine my counter idea, youGÇÖd see that it helps balance the ME/PE discrepencies between inventors and BPO holders, yet the BPO holder still retains a significant advantage (and hence value). It gives a major boost to exploration, and it rewards people for taking the time to get high ME/PE levels on their t1 BPOGÇÖs (which straight up boosts POS research). Your suggestion adds very little to the economy, relies on interacting with annoying NPC agents, and is very short sighted in whom it hurtsGǪ
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Azrael Dinn
The 20th Legion Mildly Sober
0
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Posted - 2012.04.12 17:02:00 -
[9] - Quote
I do not see it as a problem if the tech 2 bpo market would crash. It realy isn't real market cause the prices are stupidly insane.
Tough if the bpo idea is silly I'm open for discustion. I just feel something needs to be done to invention.
Mayby make copies researchable.
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Drake Draconis
Nexus Advanced Technologies Fidelas Constans
459
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Posted - 2012.04.12 17:11:00 -
[10] - Quote
I know countless T2 Invetors....and everyone of them tells me T2 BPO's = WASTE OF TIME
What the heck is driving this? ================ Get PAID FOR SPAM! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=78152 |
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Tallian Saotome
Fractured Core Fatal Ascension
621
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Posted - 2012.04.12 17:14:00 -
[11] - Quote
Azrael Dinn wrote:I do not see it as a problem if the tech 2 bpo market would crash. It realy isn't real market cause the prices are stupidly insane.
Tough if the bpo idea is silly I'm open for discustion. I just feel something needs to be done to invention.
Mayby make copies researchable.
Thats like saying the diamond market isn't a real market because the prices are stupidly insane. Just because a market has a high barrier of entry doesn't mean that its not a real market, or isn't valid.
Additionally, if you had read the link you looked up, you would see that they wanted it player driven, not something you can get out of an NPC. You are aware they are taking as much away from NPCs as they can, right? If CCP could figure out how to do it, they would remove T1 BPOs as well, since those and skillbooks are just about the only things that are sold by NPCs on the market.
Next you are going to want faction BPOs in the LP stores. Inappropriate signature removed, CCP Phantom. |
Azrael Dinn
The 20th Legion Mildly Sober
0
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Posted - 2012.04.13 09:58:00 -
[12] - Quote
Tallian Saotome wrote:Azrael Dinn wrote:I do not see it as a problem if the tech 2 bpo market would crash. It realy isn't real market cause the prices are stupidly insane.
Tough if the bpo idea is silly I'm open for discustion. I just feel something needs to be done to invention.
Mayby make copies researchable.
Thats like saying the diamond market isn't a real market because the prices are stupidly insane. Just because a market has a high barrier of entry doesn't mean that its not a real market, or isn't valid. Additionally, if you had read the link you looked up, you would see that they wanted it player driven, not something you can get out of an NPC. You are aware they are taking as much away from NPCs as they can, right? If CCP could figure out how to do it, they would remove T1 BPOs as well, since those and skillbooks are just about the only things that are sold by NPCs on the market. Next you are going to want faction BPOs in the LP stores.
Well ok lets refrace abit what I said. The market is not stupid and I know some (a small portion) make their living out from it but it's getting old it needs a change. Plus I want more content into the game like pvp players want new ships I just want more industrial content.
And what bad is there in static items? Someone has them and someone don't. It's all about balancing anyways.
The idea is to increase player content in the game. And why not faction bpo's also. As an idustrialist I would love to have one, it would make my life easier when I don't need to pay insane amounts if isks to alliances to get something I want to do.
And also the dev blog also said: Looking forward, perhaps the solution is simply stopping this original work and allowing reserarching of the copies from invention to make the them efficient after the invention process? Perhaps Reverse Engineering should be the mechanism to allow you to further increase the runs of an Invented copy at the cost of less efficiency?. You can think that also as lets make bpcs researchable and that would also crash the tech 2 bpo market you seem so keen to keep. |
Drake Draconis
Nexus Advanced Technologies Fidelas Constans
459
|
Posted - 2012.04.13 14:34:00 -
[13] - Quote
Azrael Dinn wrote:Tallian Saotome wrote:Azrael Dinn wrote:I do not see it as a problem if the tech 2 bpo market would crash. It realy isn't real market cause the prices are stupidly insane.
Tough if the bpo idea is silly I'm open for discustion. I just feel something needs to be done to invention.
Mayby make copies researchable.
Thats like saying the diamond market isn't a real market because the prices are stupidly insane. Just because a market has a high barrier of entry doesn't mean that its not a real market, or isn't valid. Additionally, if you had read the link you looked up, you would see that they wanted it player driven, not something you can get out of an NPC. You are aware they are taking as much away from NPCs as they can, right? If CCP could figure out how to do it, they would remove T1 BPOs as well, since those and skillbooks are just about the only things that are sold by NPCs on the market. Next you are going to want faction BPOs in the LP stores. Well ok lets refrace abit what I said. The market is not stupid and I know some (a small portion) make their living out from it but it's getting old it needs a change. Plus I want more content into the game like pvp players want new ships I just want more industrial content. And what bad is there in static items? Someone has them and someone don't. It's all about balancing anyways. The idea is to increase player content in the game. And why not faction bpo's also. As an idustrialist I would love to have one, it would make my life easier when I don't need to pay insane amounts if isks to alliances to get something I want to do. And also the dev blog also said: Looking forward, perhaps the solution is simply stopping this original work and allowing reserarching of the copies from invention to make the them efficient after the invention process? Perhaps Reverse Engineering should be the mechanism to allow you to further increase the runs of an Invented copy at the cost of less efficiency?. You can think that also as lets make bpcs researchable and that would also crash the tech 2 bpo market you seem so keen to keep.
Contradictions are bad mkay? ================ Get PAID FOR SPAM! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=78152 |
Tallian Saotome
Fractured Core Fatal Ascension
624
|
Posted - 2012.04.13 14:47:00 -
[14] - Quote
Azrael Dinn wrote: Well ok lets refrace abit what I said. The market is not stupid and I know some (a small portion) make their living out from it but it's getting old it needs a change. Plus I want more content into the game like pvp players want new ships I just want more industrial content.
And what bad is there in static items? Someone has them and someone don't. It's all about balancing anyways.
Static items are bad because I can't take them from you. In EVE BPOs are about the ONLY thing other than SP that you cannot lose to anything other than gross stupidity. If you lose a T2 BPO, you are a moron for the same reason people getting blown up with PLEX in their holds are morons, and people who don't keep up to date clones are morons.
Azrael Dinn wrote: The idea is to increase player content in the game. And why not faction bpo's also. As an idustrialist I would love to have one, it would make my life easier when I don't need to pay insane amounts if isks to alliances to get something I want to do.
And also the dev blog also said: Looking forward, perhaps the solution is simply stopping this original work and allowing reserarching of the copies from invention to make the them efficient after the invention process? Perhaps Reverse Engineering should be the mechanism to allow you to further increase the runs of an Invented copy at the cost of less efficiency?. You can think that also as lets make bpcs researchable and that would also crash the tech 2 bpo market you seem so keen to keep.
Did you know you CAN affect the ME, PE, and runs on a BPC produced by invention? Look at what decryptors do beyond changing the chance of success.
But I really see no significant balance issues with letting the stats of the BPC you are inventing from change the stats of the T2 BPC you are inventing. Its a shame that no one has every suggested that before Inappropriate signature removed, CCP Phantom. |
Aineko Macx
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
172
|
Posted - 2012.04.13 20:16:00 -
[15] - Quote
Not this thread again...
Azrael Dinn wrote:Also I read few threds that the current tech 2 bpo owners control 1/3 of the tech 2 market. Thats ALOT The assumption is wrong. For all but a few items, demand is far greater than what could be supplied by BPOs. Therefore the market is perfectly able to balance based on (invention) supply vs. demand.
Introducing new T2 BPOs is out of the question. Improving the ME of invention BPCs would screw over BPO owners (because of the reduced margins they wouldn't be able to brake even in their lifetime, instead of 5-8 years as is currently common).
Therefore the best solution is to leave the the system as it is. Slowly T2 BPOs are removed by more or less natural means anyway: They explode, accounts get inactive or banned... |
Haulie Berry
13
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Posted - 2012.04.13 20:23:00 -
[16] - Quote
Aineko Macx wrote:Not this thread again... Azrael Dinn wrote:Also I read few threds that the current tech 2 bpo owners control 1/3 of the tech 2 market. Thats ALOT The assumption is wrong. For all but a few items, demand is far greater than what could be supplied by BPOs. Therefore the market is perfectly able to balance based on (invention) supply vs. demand.
It's not just "wrong", it's an outright lie. There was a QEN once that showed that 97% of all T2 jobs were invention based.'
T2 BPO whiners like to ignore that and instead pretend that items like t2 armor plates are representative of the whole market. |
Kitt JT
League of Non-Aligned Worlds Nulli Secunda
37
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Posted - 2012.04.14 16:42:00 -
[17] - Quote
this again... |
Herping yourDerp
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
482
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Posted - 2012.04.14 20:20:00 -
[18] - Quote
remove t2 bpos and replace with enough max run copys at perfect ME to make ships for a year. |
Mars Theran
EVE Rogues EVE Rogues Alliance
122
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Posted - 2012.04.15 06:44:00 -
[19] - Quote
Tallian Saotome wrote:Azrael Dinn wrote:Gizznitt Malikite wrote: We don't need more t2 bpo's....
If anything, just balance invention such that the ME and PE levels of the original BPC are transfered to the invented t2 BPC, albeit with a penalty.... (for example, maybe the invented BPC's ME & PE levels retain 0-5% of the original BPC's ME/PE Levels... with different decryptors offering different percentage levels).
Consumable items are much better for this game than static items, hence BPC's are much better than BPO's...
Well if you think this way then it would be better to remove tech one print also?-¦ An idea about generating more items to the game should be considered. They would be player made. Everything else in the game is also player made so this way you could start to produce something you would like to have. Tough it would consume alot of time and effort. It would be something for those that like to do research. Not everyone likes to shoot things up you know. T2 BPOs were removed for a reason. I suggest you find out that that reason is before deciding to undo it. Also, those T2 BPO holders, for the most part, are still trying to break even on the cost of actually getting it. Last I heard it took at least 5 years before you actually hit the break even point.
That's only because they're buying the fool things for 10s of billion of ISK. Naturally it's going to take awhile to break even for them, but the original owners had no such issues and then profited greatly off the resale to those unfortunate suckers. TIIP: The Incredible Invisible Poster |
Mars Theran
EVE Rogues EVE Rogues Alliance
122
|
Posted - 2012.04.15 06:50:00 -
[20] - Quote
Gizznitt Malikite wrote: We don't need more t2 bpo's....
If anything, just balance invention such that the ME and PE levels of the original BPC are transfered to the invented t2 BPC, albeit with a penalty.... (for example, maybe the invented BPC's ME & PE levels retain 0-5% of the original BPC's ME/PE Levels... with different decryptors offering different percentage levels).
Consumable items are much better for this game than static items, hence BPC's are much better than BPO's...
This is more what we need. It's not the Tech 2 BPOs or lack of them that is the problem; it's the unfortunate inability to produce a decent Tech 2 BPC that it is worthwhile to manufacture from. Decryptors and their availability and cost and all that nonsense aside, the real issue is not having a reason to research a Tech 1 BPO before making Tech 2 BPCs from it, and not benefiting from the research you have done.
Also, there is some issue with the difficulty to actually get a Tech 2 BPC on invention tests, which is a lottery in itself. Saying, "You're doing it wrong," at this stage is sort of ignorant as one person may get the luck of the draw and regularly produce Tech 2 BPCs with great success, where another might continuously get failed attempts all other things-skills included-being equal.
Invention is over-rated and underdone. It's like a half finished project that nobody ever quite got back to. TIIP: The Incredible Invisible Poster |
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