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Hesod Adee
KDS Navy
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Posted - 2008.12.12 21:15:00 -
[1]
I'm going to be getting into one soon, so I'm trying to decide which one to get. Because of my training plan, I should be able to fly all of them.
So how do they compare to each other ? ---------------------------------------------- I support skill queues |
maralt
Minmatar The seers of truth
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Posted - 2008.12.12 21:18:00 -
[2]
Edited by: maralt on 12/12/2008 21:19:23
There is not a great deal to choose between them tbh its all a matter of what frig you have trained for in the first place that decides for you..
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Dirk Magnum
Royal Hiigaran Navy
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Posted - 2008.12.12 21:27:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Dirk Magnum on 12/12/2008 21:27:45 Used in a way that takes advantage of their bonuses they will, at most, have one open slot for a weapon, and maybe a drone depending on ship class. On this point they are all essentially the same, apart from how fast they can move cloaked and how far they'll go with a cloak + single MWD boost.
I suppose their ability to fit a buffer tank is also worth considering for at least a moment, but since they lack combat ability for the most part the only real purpose of a buffer tank is in a 1v1 w/ targets of extreme opportunity (newbs in low-end frigs or something.)
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Bronson Hughes
ADVANCED Combat and Engineering
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Posted - 2008.12.12 22:03:00 -
[4]
Many CovOps pilots will want to fit a cloak, a probe launcher and a cyno. For this reason, the Helios tends to be rather unpopular.
The recharge bonus on the Anathema is very nice and the new black Magnate model is dead sexy. -------------------- "I am hard pressed on my right; my centre is giving way; situation excellent; I am attacking." - Ferdinand Foch at the Battle of the Marne |
Grarr Dexx
Amarr Paxton Industries Paxton Federation
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Posted - 2008.12.12 22:14:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Bronson Hughes Many CovOps pilots will want to fit a cloak, a probe launcher and a cyno. For this reason, the Helios tends to be rather unpopular.
The recharge bonus on the Anathema is very nice and the new black Magnate model is dead sexy.
I'm having a hard time trying to find the use of four midslots on it, though. You should only need two or three for a covert op's work, and it's capstable as ****.
-----
Nexus stamps of approvalÖ count: 1
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Hoshi
The Einherjar Corporation
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Posted - 2008.12.12 22:33:00 -
[6]
I prefer the cheetah do it it's higher speed. Allows you to get into position for a warp-in faster and adds a bit more safety when jumping into a bubble.
As for filling 4 mids, I use mwd, scrambler, sensor dampner (locktime), cap battery. Not that many times you will use the scrambler/damp but you will regret not having them when the opportunity arrives. ---------------------------------------- A Guide to Scan Probing in Revelations |
tweaky boson
Minmatar Republic Military School
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Posted - 2008.12.12 22:53:00 -
[7]
helios is slower, but has better power grid. on that ship I can run 2 dampeners which can be useful for getting out of tight spots (clueless gangmates warping to me at 0) and whoring on mails err I mean helping out the gang when the gank takes place.
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Lim Lim
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Posted - 2008.12.13 02:31:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Lim Lim on 13/12/2008 02:33:49 There is the helios and to be honest then there is everything else
You can argue successfully on fly minnie due to the nice speed you get cloaked. This will allow you to get into position to provide warp ins on hostiles a lot easier - also allows you to evade gate camps easier due to speed.
Caldari suffer from a useless 3rd high slot, a crap capacitor which won't allow long warps - so you can't stay in front of your gang easily, and you can't operate your mids for very long. You also only get 2 lows so you can't fit as many grid or CPU mods as the helios. Those 3 lows and nice selection of mids on the helios also allows you to carry a full exploration fit with cargohold expander X 3 and hacking mods etc in mids.
If you want alround win, just train the helios imo.
This is my fleet and gang scout fit I get 1min 30sec out of point/damp X 2 and I think that's long enough to hold a target before your mates arrive. This is a covert ops 5 fit though.
[Helios, Fleetwork] Micro Auxiliary Power Core I Capacitor Power Relay II Co-Processor II
1MN MicroWarpdrive II Warp Disruptor II Micro Capacitor Battery I Phased Muon Sensor Disruptor I, Scan Resolution Dampening Phased Muon Sensor Disruptor I, Scan Resolution Dampening
Covert Ops Cloaking Device II Scan Probe Launcher I, Spook Scanner Probe I
Gravity Capacitor Upgrade I Gravity Capacitor Upgrade I
Hobgoblin II x1
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Katarlia Simov
Minmatar Cowboys From Hell
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Posted - 2008.12.13 02:52:00 -
[9]
Don't use the helios, its aweful.Without your probes, your cloak and your cyno, you aren't doing your job. The others are pretty much the same as each other.
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Hesod Adee
KDS Navy
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Posted - 2008.12.13 03:43:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Hesod Adee on 13/12/2008 03:44:40 I'm currently training all T2 frigates, so my skills will not limit my choice here.
Originally by: Bronson Hughes Many CovOps pilots will want to fit a cloak, a probe launcher and a cyno. For this reason, the Helios tends to be rather unpopular.
Understandable. Though FW doesn't have many cap ships about, so the cyno won't be needed.
I do see lots of Buzzards though. ---------------------------------------------- I support skill queues |
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Kessiaan
Minmatar Army of One
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Posted - 2008.12.13 03:43:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Kessiaan on 13/12/2008 03:43:47 I'll agree on the Helios being ****ty and I fly one.
Only 2 highslots is fail. Plus it's fugly. It does have the single redeeming quality that it does have the mids and PG to be a "SURPRISE!" tackler, but tbh I feel being able to provide a warp-in for an Interceptor is a less risky way to get things done. ... besides, I've said all I'm going to say. You're reading my sig now! Bwa!
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Davina Braben
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Posted - 2008.12.13 04:42:00 -
[12]
Helios has one less high slot than the others.
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Artemis Rose
Sileo In Pacis
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Posted - 2008.12.13 04:45:00 -
[13]
The Anathema is sexy goodness, the others not so much.
*** Currently Playing: Trolls from Outer Space Current Equipment: VISAcard chain mail, +2 Amulet of Epic Whine, Self Banstick +2 WTB: +666 E-peen killboard stats |
Lea Re
Mercenary Forces
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Posted - 2008.12.13 06:16:00 -
[14]
depends where you're flying and whether you need a cyno or not i find myself using remote sensor boosters on my covopos alt on helios and flying mostly in empire i have no need for cyno
as always, it boils down to a question of how and where you want to use them
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Rajere
No Trademark Notoriety Alliance
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Posted - 2008.12.13 06:19:00 -
[15]
There is the cheetah, then there is the rest. tbh there is very little difference between them, the cheetah though is the best.
oh and the helios is crap and anyone who tries to argue that the helios extra grid somehow redeems it is lulz. Any covert ops can tackle something in a pinch and they're all equally as good (bad) at it. -------------------------- NOTR
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Typhado3
Minmatar Ashen Lion Mining and Production Consortium Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2008.12.13 09:03:00 -
[16]
amarr = best looking
caldari = most cpu
minmatar = fastest
ccp fix mining agent missions % pls |
Siigari Kitawa
Gallente The Aduro Protocol
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Posted - 2008.12.13 11:47:00 -
[17]
I fly a Helios and it's a gem (I miss the old Helios though). *sob*
I don't see why you need a Cyno on a very expensive ship. Cynos are relegated to tech 1 frigates. Throwing a Cyno on a Helios (which is unbonused afaik) is a silly idea.
Cloak, Sisters Launcher, MWD, 2 damps, mix of 2 slots of your picking and an honor tank does it for me.
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Kazuo Ishiguro
House of Marbles Zzz
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Posted - 2008.12.13 12:01:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Siigari Kitawa I don't see why you need a Cyno on a very expensive ship. Cynos are relegated to tech 1 frigates. Throwing a Cyno on a Helios (which is unbonused afaik) is a silly idea.
This is a good point, but don't forget Covert cynos, which I understand are somewhat less suicidal. --- Can't afford that BPO? Look here. 20:1 mineral compression The EVE f@h team |
Hatt0ri Hanz0
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Posted - 2008.12.13 12:03:00 -
[19]
there's no ****ing way I'm putting a cyno on anything other then a cheap t1 frig. Those that say the helios sucks cause you can't do that are stupid. Except for the fact its rather ugly, its the best of the bunch.
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Captator
Universal Securities Pirate Coalition
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Posted - 2008.12.13 12:08:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Rajere There is the cheetah, then there is the rest. tbh there is very little difference between them, the cheetah though is the best.
oh and the helios is crap and anyone who tries to argue that the helios extra grid somehow redeems it is lulz. Any covert ops can tackle something in a pinch and they're all equally as good (bad) at it.
QFT
The cheetah is the best combat prober due to its very high speed when cloaked, but I think the anathema is the best exploration covops, as it can fit a probe launcher, salvager, codebreaker, analyser, and has the cap to actually run them for a while.
Buzzard has crap cap and grid - fitting an mwd means you have 3 empty mids and 1 empty high, or you lose an instab/OD.
Helios only has 2 highs
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MITSUK0
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Posted - 2008.12.13 12:58:00 -
[21]
Basically a good cov-ops needs:
probe launcher cyno cloak
mwd disrupter (for points on pods and logoffski's) shield booster (for cap control for short warps)
speed mods (fitting mods)
If the cov-ops you are skilling for can fit all the above then it is good, helios is ****. I like the anathema because you can crowbar a cap battery on aswell for better warp distance. Cheetah is sexy for its speed.
I'd order them as:
Cheetah Anathema Buzzard Helios
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Morgan La'Chance
Caldari Dynamic Reallocation and Logistics
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Posted - 2008.12.13 13:30:00 -
[22]
Buzzard has hella good DPS.
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Rajere
No Trademark Notoriety Alliance
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Posted - 2008.12.13 14:32:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Kazuo Ishiguro
Originally by: Siigari Kitawa I don't see why you need a Cyno on a very expensive ship. Cynos are relegated to tech 1 frigates. Throwing a Cyno on a Helios (which is unbonused afaik) is a silly idea.
This is a good point, but don't forget Covert cynos, which I understand are somewhat less suicidal.
Covert Cyno is still rather suicidal on a covops. Only time it's not suicidal is for pure travel, which is when nobody cares. The thing that's wrong with the original quote is calling a cov ops frigate a "very expensive ship." It's a frigate brosef, even if it was gold plated it still doesn't approach the realm of expensive much less "very expensive."
Cheetah's are cheap enough to be used for suicide endeavors so it doesn't matter much, but being rooted in place for 30 seconds is definitely suicidal: http://www.storietime.com/gsy/killboard/?a=kill_related&kll_id=20617 -------------------------- NOTR
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Lim Lim
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Posted - 2008.12.13 16:00:00 -
[24]
Edited by: Lim Lim on 13/12/2008 16:01:02 standard cynos on a covert are cool and extremely useful when hotdropping offensively and I am sure the 20mill you lose is pretty worth it lol (all t2 frigs are throw-away anyway really).
I don't use mine that way which I why i promoted the helios. if you are needing an offensive cyno ship then yeah def the helios can't fulfill that role so go with a different type.
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BiggestT
Caldari Resurrection Skunk-Works
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Posted - 2008.12.13 16:11:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Artemis Rose The Anathema is sexy goodness, the others not so much.
Hey, dont get me wrong, the buzzard is no magnate hull, but it looks like a B-wing off Starwars.. In navy camo..
Pwn
EVE history
t2 precisions |
LetsDoThis
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Posted - 2008.12.13 18:39:00 -
[26]
for high speed search and gank you need a covops with a cyno
imagine probing out a safespotted titan with your cap fleet 1 jump away @&^$^&%()*
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LetsDoThis
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Posted - 2008.12.13 18:40:00 -
[27]
also, /thread
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Hesod Adee
KDS Navy
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Posted - 2008.12.14 20:38:00 -
[28]
Originally by: MITSUK0 Basically a good cov-ops needs:
<snip> shield booster (for cap control for short warps)
By cap control, I'm assuming you mean to reduce your remaining cap. But why would you want to do this ? ---------------------------------------------- I support skill queues |
Tal Kjelthorne
Kjelthorne Industries
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Posted - 2008.12.14 21:15:00 -
[29]
I personally fly a Helios, and the third missing high slot can suck at times.
Reason (other than cyno) is that in exploration you *NEED* a salvager to hit some of the sites (read: magnetometric). If you find a mag site in a Helios, you may as well move on, 'cause you have to have a second boat to do the job.
The five midslots give you a wide variety of options. I use mine with a survey scanner II, ship/cargo scanner, analyzer and codebreaker for a wide variety of operations and cloaked I move 400m/s. My one drone can actually nuke frigates/destroyer rats that annoy me while I'm working in radar sites.
I'd go magnate or cheetah. ___________ I reserve the right to be wrong.
We the Unwilling Lead by the Unknowing... |
James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2008.12.14 23:21:00 -
[30]
Edited by: James Lyrus on 14/12/2008 23:24:55 Basics of a covert ops: Covert ops cloak, Probe Launcher, Cyno|covert cyno|salvager MWD, small shield booster, whatever else. Speed mods Scan time rigs.
The 'whatever' in the mids, in some cases benefits a lot from being cap extensions, as the buzzard in particular has really bad cap/warp ratio.
So based on that:
Helios is down a highslot. Buzzard doesn't have the grid for a T2 MWD - fitting a named will work, but you'll be leaving midslots empty. It has a poor cap and a high mass - this means it falls out of warp a lot, which is massively annoying.
Cheetah is short on powergrid for a MWD as well - not quite as badly off as the buzzard. It has one less midslot to leave empty, and one more low for speed mods (or a MAPC if you have something to put in those mids). But it does have the highest real space velocity, which is handy for MWDing and for just cloaked tactical positioning.
Anathema has the same slot layout as the Cheetah, but with more grid and more CPU. It pays for this by being a bit slower. (Which balances out if you fit a MAPC to your Cheetah)
Also: Anathema has the Magnate hull which is a sexy beast.
Train for the Anathema for general purpose scouting. Train the Cheetah if you expect to be zooming around cloaked a lot looking for warpins.
Otherwise, fly whatever you can, it doesn't actually make that much of a difference. -- 249km locking? |
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