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tarin adur
Gallente Corp 1 Allstars
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Posted - 2008.12.14 08:48:00 -
[1]
Edited by: tarin adur on 14/12/2008 08:49:34 Probably posted this in the wrong forum, but this gets more reads anyways =D
Was reading another thread and someone said that Falcons will permnanently jam Ceptors/Frigs that have a sensor strenght lower then the jam strenght of the falcon.
Anyways, i was thinking you could actually give ceptors a massive boost to sensor strenght. Such that even a max skilled falcon would have a hard time jamming one. Assuming this happens, now ceptors can perform the roles they were made for(Tackling and holding) and the gang can warp to the ceptor, the falcon is no longer as invincible as it was since now, a ceptor is a real threat to it.
Anyways, i dunno if i worded that right, but this way, instead of nerfing ecm, we actually boost something(for once) and get some results.
Flame away...
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Merin Ryskin
Peregrine Industries
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Posted - 2008.12.14 08:53:00 -
[2]
Inties do not need a boost. -----------
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tarin adur
Gallente Corp 1 Allstars
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Posted - 2008.12.14 08:55:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Merin Ryskin Inties do not need a boost.
Not so much a boost for ceptors, as a more effective counter to falcons. Besides...this would change nothing at all in every-day use of a ceptor.
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Malcanis
R.E.C.O.N. The Firm.
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Posted - 2008.12.14 09:32:00 -
[4]
Interceptors are not really suited for an antifalcon role. Speed is not now nor was it ever a particularly good counter.
The ship you are looking for is here.
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tarin adur
Gallente Corp 1 Allstars
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Posted - 2008.12.14 09:50:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Malcanis Interceptors are not really suited for an antifalcon role. Speed is not now nor was it ever a particularly good counter.
The ship you are looking for is here.
Oh? Falcon's greatest strenght is range, and a ceptor has the means to close that distance quickly, far faster then a cov ops can i'd think.
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Merin Ryskin
Peregrine Industries
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Posted - 2008.12.14 09:54:00 -
[6]
Originally by: tarin adur Oh? Falcon's greatest strenght is range, and a ceptor has the means to close that distance quickly, far faster then a cov ops can i'd think.
You're not thinking about it hard enough. An interceptor at 5km/s (somewhat optimistic, post-nerf) will take 40 seconds to reach a Falcon at 200km. A covops will take approximately 30 seconds to reach it with as many ships as you like. -----------
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Adaera
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Posted - 2008.12.14 09:58:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Adaera on 14/12/2008 09:58:31
Originally by: Merin Ryskin
Originally by: tarin adur Oh? Falcon's greatest strenght is range, and a ceptor has the means to close that distance quickly, far faster then a cov ops can i'd think.
You're not thinking about it hard enough. An interceptor at 5km/s (somewhat optimistic, post-nerf) will take 40 seconds to reach a Falcon at 200km. A covops will take approximately 30 seconds to reach it with as many ships as you like.
This. Any decent Falcon pilot is likely to cloak and/or warp off before you even reach them. If anything some sort of sniper ship would be a better bet. (Eagle/Rokh?)
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Artemis Rose
Sileo In Pacis
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Posted - 2008.12.14 10:08:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Adaera (Eagle/Rokh?)
Raven actually does very well at anti-falcon roles, as well.
Sure, you may not kill it with a swarm of cruise missiles, but it will GTFO.
*** Currently Playing: Trolls from Outer Space Current Equipment: VISAcard chain mail, +2 Amulet of Epic Whine, Self Banstick +2 WTB: +666 E-peen killboard stats |
FreddyCheeseman
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Posted - 2008.12.14 10:42:00 -
[9]
Edited by: FreddyCheeseman on 14/12/2008 10:46:16 Edited by: FreddyCheeseman on 14/12/2008 10:44:06 A falcon is not guaranteed to perma jam an intie if it has a lower sensor strength. It's all chance based with jamming so there is ALWAYS a chance to fail to jam any ship, or so I was lead to believe, I'm less sure than I was 30 seconds ago...
Edit// think I got the formula wrong
Anyway, falcons are amazingly fragile, and its not hard to think of a counter for one really. Say a couple of ECCM mods, some big bang bang guns and a sensor booster. Would have the falcon running or dying pretty quickly. The people that complain about it just cant be bothered to think around the problem, and refuse to alter their usual tank and gank setups to allow for something different.
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Florio
Federal Defence Union
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Posted - 2008.12.14 11:09:00 -
[10]
there was a much better modification to falcons suggested recently - to do with falloff. basically at range a falcon's effectiveness would decrease substantially, forcing it in closer if it wants to be as uber as it is atm.
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Pr1ncess Alia
Caldari Perkone
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Posted - 2008.12.14 11:11:00 -
[11]
i think the best solution would be to buff arties and give the tempest +200% sensor strength
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EFT Warrior
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Posted - 2008.12.14 11:15:00 -
[12]
The only reliable counter to nano a falcon is more nano another falcon. There is no other ship that is as reliable or useful. Oh sure you can bring a sniper ship, but it can still be jammed and it will only make the falcon warp off. I've chased off falcons in my recon because he couldn't jam me, but like the sniper ship it's role was focused solely on going after that falcon, whereas another falcon could jam up the enemy falcon and jam other ships while it's at it.
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FreddyCheeseman
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Posted - 2008.12.14 11:38:00 -
[13]
So what your saying is to sniper a falcon, your having to sacrifice one pilot to specifically counter said falcon? Shock horror, the enemy gang has sacrificed one player to have a falcon over another dps boat, so seems like a fair trade off to me. The only difference is when the falcons dead/gone your sniper pilot can still chip in some dps on the targets. Admittedly not much, but more than a falcon can contribute when he cant jam anything.
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Tronjay
Caldari THE INSURGENCY DEFI4NT
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Posted - 2008.12.14 11:45:00 -
[14]
Carriernerf, Speednerf (Vaga and the lot), Missilenerf (Torps/Caldari and the lot) and now a Falconnerf?? Com'mon deal with the mechanics Bro. You know what they can do, so use the ingame mechanics to counter.
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EFT Warrior
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Posted - 2008.12.14 12:58:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Tronjay Carriernerf, Speednerf (Vaga and the lot), Missilenerf (Torps/Caldari and the lot) and now a Falconnerf?? Com'mon deal with the mechanics Bro. You know what they can do, so use the ingame mechanics to counter.
I do, I use a falcon in my gangs.
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Righteous Deeds
Diverse Endeavors
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Posted - 2008.12.14 13:25:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Tronjay Carriernerf, Speednerf (Vaga and the lot), Missilenerf (Torps/Caldari and the lot) and now a Falconnerf?? Com'mon deal with the mechanics Bro. You know what they can do, so use the ingame mechanics to counter.
Seconded. You guys need to break free of the CCP nerf/buff culture. Learn to deal with the tech as it is. The nerfs/buffs never fix anything, they just make new problems and generate their own complaints.
Soon this game will be so vanilla it won't matter what you fly, the only thing different will be the graphics model.
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Stefan F
Enrave Ethereal Dawn
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Posted - 2008.12.14 13:50:00 -
[17]
It's not the falcon that is the problem, it is your unwillingness to fit ECCM. Because you rather have a second sensorbooster instead. It is all about choices as it should be. Just learn to play the game instead of whining on the forums.
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Rajere
No Trademark Notoriety Alliance
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Posted - 2008.12.14 14:26:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Stefan F It's not the falcon that is the problem, it is your unwillingness to fit ECCM. Because you rather have a second sensorbooster instead. It is all about choices as it should be. Just learn to play the game instead of whining on the forums.
look at that clueless post!
switch the falcon's optimal bonus for a falloff bonus, or remove it completely and give them some secondary tackle/ewar bonus. -------------------------- NOTR
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MITSUK0
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Posted - 2008.12.14 15:58:00 -
[19]
Curse with eccm or arazu.
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Naomi Knight
Amarr Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2008.12.14 16:01:00 -
[20]
I think what ccp should do is to boost eagle and cerberus both would be nice anti falcon ships. A +200% dmg for both would be nice ,forcing the falcon pilots to warp away or change to cerberus or eagle for better use in gang.
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Prometheus Exenthal
Genos Occidere
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Posted - 2008.12.14 16:24:00 -
[21]
the raptor already has a HUGE sensor strength if you fit it for taking out ecm boats. if you did it for all, there would be no reason to fly anything but taranis.
- FRIGANK|FRIGANK 2 |
daisy dook
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Posted - 2008.12.14 16:35:00 -
[22]
Edited by: daisy dook on 14/12/2008 16:36:14
Originally by: Rajere
Originally by: Stefan F It's not the falcon that is the problem, it is your unwillingness to fit ECCM. Because you rather have a second sensorbooster instead. It is all about choices as it should be. Just learn to play the game instead of whining on the forums.
look at that clueless post!
switch the falcon's optimal bonus for a falloff bonus, or remove it completely and give them some secondary tackle/ewar bonus.
I like it, nerf the ship rather than fit counter measures.
Maybe CCP will nerf DPS because I can't, sorry, won't fit tank.
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baltec1
R.U.S.T. Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2008.12.14 16:41:00 -
[23]
Bomber is great vs falcons. 3-4 vollies on a well skilled pilot to kill it and if it is at max range your sensor disruptors will remove it from the fight right away.
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Captator
Universal Securities Pirate Coalition
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Posted - 2008.12.14 16:55:00 -
[24]
Edited by: Captator on 14/12/2008 16:55:54 [Apocalypse, antifalcon] Damage Control II Heat Sink II Heat Sink II Tracking Enhancer II 1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I True Sansha Adaptive Nano Plating Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
100MN MicroWarpdrive II Sensor Booster II, Scan Resolution Sensor Booster II, Scan Resolution Conjunctive Radar ECCM Scanning Array I
Mega Beam Laser II, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L Mega Beam Laser II, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L Mega Beam Laser II, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L Mega Beam Laser II, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L Mega Beam Laser II, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L Mega Beam Laser II, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L Mega Beam Laser II, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L Mega Beam Laser II, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L
Energy Locus Coordinator I Ancillary Current Router I Trimark Armor Pump I
Hammerhead II x5
~700 dps at 50km, 1.7k alpha with 330 dps at 193km, 87k EHP in gang
Doesn't lose too much performance over a standard plated close range fleet BS, and can switch out quickly to force a falcon off.
edit: needs 3% grid implant to fit
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Raniss
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Posted - 2008.12.14 17:34:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Merin Ryskin Inties do not need a boost.
Stealthbombers do, amirite?
OP, inties do not need a boost, falcons need a nerf. Thats all.
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Naomi Knight
Amarr Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2008.12.14 17:35:00 -
[26]
Originally by: daisy dook Edited by: daisy dook on 14/12/2008 16:36:14
Originally by: Rajere
Originally by: Stefan F It's not the falcon that is the problem, it is your unwillingness to fit ECCM. Because you rather have a second sensorbooster instead. It is all about choices as it should be. Just learn to play the game instead of whining on the forums.
look at that clueless post!
switch the falcon's optimal bonus for a falloff bonus, or remove it completely and give them some secondary tackle/ewar bonus.
I like it, nerf the ship rather than fit counter measures.
Maybe CCP will nerf DPS because I can't, sorry, won't fit tank.
Yes pls , my invu field nowhere gives me invulnerability,it is bugged. And it should counter dmg fully , why can anybody dmg me while i fit 2 of these modules?:O
Ccp pls nerf any damage modules , -99% range and dmg output should be enough.
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F90OEX
F9X
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Posted - 2008.12.14 17:41:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Righteous Deeds
Originally by: Tronjay Carriernerf, Speednerf (Vaga and the lot), Missilenerf (Torps/Caldari and the lot) and now a Falconnerf?? Com'mon deal with the mechanics Bro. You know what they can do, so use the ingame mechanics to counter.
Seconded. You guys need to break free of the CCP nerf/buff culture. Learn to deal with the tech as it is. The nerfs/buffs never fix anything, they just make new problems and generate their own complaints.
Soon this game will be so vanilla it won't matter what you fly, the only thing different will be the graphics model.
All this and more ..... Problem is most people what the easy fight, instead of a challenge.
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TimMc
Gallente Brutal Deliverance OWN Alliance
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Posted - 2008.12.14 17:43:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Captator Edited by: Captator on 14/12/2008 16:55:54 [Apocalypse, antifalcon] Damage Control II Heat Sink II Heat Sink II Tracking Enhancer II 1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I True Sansha Adaptive Nano Plating Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
100MN MicroWarpdrive II Sensor Booster II, Scan Resolution Sensor Booster II, Scan Resolution Conjunctive Radar ECCM Scanning Array I
Mega Beam Laser II, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L Mega Beam Laser II, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L Mega Beam Laser II, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L Mega Beam Laser II, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L Mega Beam Laser II, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L Mega Beam Laser II, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L Mega Beam Laser II, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L Mega Beam Laser II, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L
Energy Locus Coordinator I Ancillary Current Router I Trimark Armor Pump I
Hammerhead II x5
~700 dps at 50km, 1.7k alpha with 330 dps at 193km, 87k EHP in gang
Doesn't lose too much performance over a standard plated close range fleet BS, and can switch out quickly to force a falcon off.
edit: needs 3% grid implant to fit
Yeah any fleet BS is great anti-falcon. People just don't want to gimp their ships.
[Rokh, ECM This] Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Signal Amplifier II Power Diagnostic System II Power Diagnostic System II
100MN MicroWarpdrive II Sensor Booster II, Targeting Range ECCM - Gravimetric II Invulnerability Field II Large Shield Extender II Large Shield Extender II
425mm Railgun II, Spike L 425mm Railgun II, Spike L 425mm Railgun II, Spike L 425mm Railgun II, Spike L 425mm Railgun II, Spike L 425mm Railgun II, Spike L 425mm Railgun II, Spike L 425mm Railgun II, Spike L
Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer I
Hammerhead II x5
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Zak Zerachiel
Caldari Slacker Industries
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Posted - 2008.12.14 18:13:00 -
[29]
1) Fit ECCM 2) Bring your own Falcon 3) Bring a different Ewar ship (Electronic Attack Frig) 4) SB w/ damps 5) Long range snipe ship that falcon doesn't notice in fleet fight
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Hyveres
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.12.14 18:51:00 -
[30]
Edited by: Hyveres on 14/12/2008 18:51:53 A properly fit Cerberus with 73 gravmetric sensor strength is kinda efficient as well.
If done right we are talking 10s flight time out to 200km.
High enough sensor strenght to require multiple jammers for any reasonable chance of success and afaik most falcons dont fit multiple gravmetric jammers these days :) "Subtlety is a thing for philosophy, not combat. If you're going to kill someone, you might as well kill them a whole lot." - Vulcan Raven, The Last Days Of Foxhound |
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